City Council Meeting - January 25, 2011

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Meeting Summary

None
Closed Session 📄
The meeting began with Mayor Herb Weiner inquiring about public comments on an item related to the Sausalito Yard Harbor, but clarified it was not for closed session 📄. The city clerk, Debbie, conducted a roll call for council members Pfeiffer, Vice Mayor Kelly, Council Member Ford, and Mayor Weiner, all of whom were present 📄. Following this, the council adjourned to a closed session 📄.
A
Roll Call 📄
The meeting was called to order by Herb Weiner at 7:00 PM. The City Clerk, Debbie, conducted roll call for councilmembers: Pfeiffer (present), Leon (present), Vice Mayor Kelly (present), Ford (present), and Mayor Weiner (present). 📄 The mayor noted a closed session discussion earlier regarding the Sausalito Yard Harbor bulkhead item (D1). 📄 Public comment was invited on the closed session, but no comments were made.
D
PUBLIC COMMENT on Closed Session Items 📄
The meeting opened with Herb Weiner leading the pledge of allegiance, but no specific presentation, discussion, or public comments regarding closed session items were recorded in the provided transcript segment.
B
Pledge of Allegiance 📄
The Pledge of Allegiance was recited by Herb Weiner and Mary Wagner, with some interruptions and corrections. Herb Weiner led the pledge, and Mary Wagner joined in. The recitation included the phrase 'under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.' After the pledge, Herb Weiner thanked participants and moved to approve the agenda 📄.
E
Approval of Agenda 📄
The item was introduced with a motion for approval by Jonathan Leone at 📄, seconded by Herb Weiner. Herb Weiner then called for a vote, and the agenda was approved without further discussion.
Motion
Motion to approve the agenda, moved by Jonathan Leone and seconded by Herb Weiner at 📄.
2
COMMUNICATIONS 📄
The item was introduced by Herb Weiner, who asked if there were any communications or comments from the public or councilmembers. No one responded, indicating no communications were presented. The item was quickly concluded to move on to the next agenda item. 📄
A
Approval of minutes from the regular City Council meeting of January 11, 2011 📄
Herb Weiner initiated a ceremony for approval of the minutes, followed by Linda Pfeifer's second. The council voted unanimously in favor with no opposition noted 📄.
Motion
Motion to approve the minutes, seconded, and passed unanimously 📄.
4
CONSENT CALENDAR 📄
The consent calendar originally had items, but Council Member Pfeiffer pulled item 4A for separate discussion 📄. The remaining item was clarified by City Manager Jonathon Goldman not to be an award of contract for the 1B sewer priority project, but a status update due to pending funding from the State Revolving Fund 📄. Council Member Leone inquired about bid validity, and Goldman explained bids are good for 120 days and expressed optimism for securing funding within that period 📄. No action was taken on the sewer project item.
A
Discussion on CalPERS actuarial reports on pension funding 📄
Administrative Services Director Charlie Francis introduced the item, explaining the purpose was to study the CalPERS 2009 actuarial report and understand pension funding, with no action requested. Actuary John Bartel presented highlights: CalPERS had a -24% investment return in 2009 (actuarially a 32% loss vs. assumed 7.75%), followed by +13.3% in 2010, but recovery will take many years. Losses will lead to higher contribution rates, mitigated short-term by CalPERS rate smoothing but increasing long-term. CalPERS is considering lowering the investment return assumption to 7.5%, which would raise rates. Contribution rates as a percentage of pay are projected to rise: miscellaneous from 15.6% to 19-24% by 2016-17; police from 38.5% to 46-53%; fire from 31.5% to 39-46%, depending on investment returns. 📄 Councilmember Carolyn Ford asked when the bulk of expenses would hit Sausalito; Bartel indicated it's uncertain, depending on future returns, but rates will increase significantly. 📄 Councilmember Linda Pfeifer expressed concern about smoothing potentially delaying costs and asked for Sausalito-specific dollar figures for assets, unfunded liability, and funded ratio. Bartel explained that as part of a pool, CalPERS does not disclose individual agency data, but estimates could be made. 📄 Bartel discussed second-tier benefits, noting savings are minimal and long-term (20-30 years) because they only affect new employees' normal costs, not the existing unfunded liability. He advised that second tiers should be based on benefit fairness, not financial savings. 📄 Side fund payoffs could save money if the city uses reserves, but require upfront cash. 📄 CalPERS Senior Actuary Barbara Ware presented Sausalito's plan history and rate trends. She confirmed Sausalito has final year compensation for calculations. 📄 She outlined options to lower costs: second-tier benefits, cost-sharing, lump-sum side fund payments, or plan termination (which would require paying off liabilities plus a 7% contingency). 📄 Councilmember Jonathan Leone clarified that plan termination would apply to all employees in a plan, not just new hires. 📄 Council discussion included questions about defined contribution plans (currently not allowed as a standalone option), the lowest benefit formula (2% at 60, or 1.5% at 65 with Social Security), and the need for legislative changes. 📄 Charlie Francis stated the city's two-year budget accounts for known rate increases, and long-term strategies (fire consolidation, restructuring) are being pursued to address future costs. 📄 Councilmembers emphasized the need for continued attention, community outreach, and exploring all options within legal constraints.
Public Comment 1 1 Against
B
Update on the status of the VA project in the Marinship 📄
Associate Planner Heidi Burns provided a status update on the proposed Veterans Administration (VA) project for the machine shop building at 25 Liberty Shipway. Staff has taken several actions following the City Council's direction from November 23rd, including sending letters to federal agencies (Advisory Council on Historic Preservation, California State Office of Historic Preservation, National Trust for Historic Preservation, VA Federal Preservation Officer) to urge the VA to follow the Section 106 process under the National Historic Preservation Act 📄. Responses were received from the National Trust and the Advisory Council, indicating support. The Historic Landmarks Board is initiating a nomination of the machine shop for the local register 📄. Staff solicited proposals for historic studies (historic context statement, Marinship inventory, historic resource evaluation) and received five proposals, with a recommendation to come soon 📄. A meeting with representatives from Lynn Woolsey's office occurred on January 19th to discuss city concerns 📄. Staff submitted an application for the National Trust's 'America's 11 Most Endangered Buildings' list, with results in May 📄. A meeting with VA representatives is scheduled for February 23rd 📄. Councilmember Kelly emphasized the need to contact legislators (Mark Leno, Jared Huffman, Dianne Feinstein) and include the site in Bay Area historic naval networks 📄. Councilmember Leone expressed concern about the VA removing roof material and exposing the building to storms, suggesting letters to hold them accountable 📄. Mayor Weiner and Councilmember Kelly clarified the city's position is not to stop the project but to ensure proper historic evaluation and appropriate design 📄.
Public Comment 1 1 In Favor
C
Approve settlement agreement and lease with Sausalito Yacht Harbor (City Attorney Mary Wagner) 📄
City Attorney Mary Wagner presented amendments to the 1976 settlement agreement and 1992 lease with Sausalito Yacht Harbor, extending both to 2061 while maintaining current payment structures (5% under settlement, 25% under lease). Key changes include: removal of cross-default provisions between agreements 📄, adjustments to minimum monthly rent calculations to exclude bulkhead replacement/dredging periods from vacancy allowances 📄, and establishment of a rent credit mechanism for Sausalito Yacht Harbor's $2.5M share of the $4.2M bulkhead replacement project 📄. The city will contribute $1M upfront, with the remainder financed over 25 years via rent credits subject to a 5% annual escalator 📄. Council discussion focused on risks of decoupling agreements, long-term maintenance obligations, and bid evaluation processes. Councilmember Kelly expressed concerns about unresolved ownership issues and long-term financial implications 📄, while Councilmember Leone acknowledged the agreement makes the best of a difficult situation and praised Sausalito Yacht Harbor's financial contribution 📄.
Motion
Councilmember Ford moved to adopt the resolution approving the First Amendment to the lease and First Amendment to the agreement, including revisions presented in red lines 📄. Motion seconded and passed with ayes, no opposition noted 📄.
D
Acceptance of Parking and Revenue Control Equipment (Director of Public Works Jonathon Goldman) 📄
Director of Public Works Jonathon Goldman presented the item, recommending acceptance of the parking access and revenue control systems installed by APARC Systems in City Parking Lots 1-4 as complete, release of retention (~$48,000), and authorization of a one-year communications fee purchase order ($58,152). He noted the 255-page staff report and addressed prior questions, confirming the contract consists of bid documents, the bid, council resolution, and purchase orders. 📄 He stated APARC committed to substantial completion within 120 days and final completion within 160 days from notice to proceed, but the acceptance cycle extended due to testing. 📄 Councilmember Pfeifer expressed concern that resident and commuter cards, key decision factors, were not part of the base bid and remain unimplemented. 📄 City Manager Adam Politzer explained the delay allowed for system enhancements, like tracking actual parking time and expanding resident access to all four lots, improving on the old system. 📄 Councilmember Leone noted no financial damages occurred as parking revenue remained stable, making liquidated damages moot. 📄 Councilmember Ford requested a project plan with milestones for Phase 2. 📄 Leone emphasized the detailed specifications were met, with resident cards to be addressed separately.
Motion
Councilmember Leone moved to adopt the resolution accepting the APARC equipment as complete, authorize the City Manager to release retention, issue the one-year communications fee purchase order, and direct staff to implement Phase 2 with a work plan. 📄 The motion was seconded and passed with an 'Aye' vote, though Councilmember Pfeifer expressed reservations. 📄
4A
Approve third amendment to Employment Agreement for the City Manager 📄
The item involves four key amendments to the City Manager's employment agreement: 1) Extending the cooling-off period after a council election from 60 to 90 days before the manager can be dismissed without cause (requires a four-fifths vote during that period). 2) Increasing severance to one year's salary if dismissed without cause, which was validated by an external recruiting firm (Bob Murray and Associates) as standard for California city managers. 3) A salary increase of $842 per month to bring the City Manager to the median salary for Marin County city managers, aligning with the city's goal of median compensation to attract and retain talent. 4) A one-time payment of $4,870 (2.5% of prior salary) as a previously unfulfilled performance incentive from the first year of employment. Council discussion highlighted that the City Manager was initially hired at a lower salary due to limited experience, with a promise to adjust compensation if he performed well 📄. Several councilmembers praised the City Manager's performance and leadership, noting his role in stabilizing city operations. Concerns were raised about equity, as other city employees have had wage freezes 📄, but it was clarified that the city's labor issues are primarily related to pension obligations, not salaries, and that equity adjustments for other staff will be addressed in future union negotiations 📄.
Motion
Motion to approve the third amendment to the Employment Agreement for the City Manager was made, seconded, and passed with a vote of Ayes, one opposed 📄.
A
City Manager Information for Council 📄
City Manager Adam Politzer reported on attending the League of California Cities new mayors and council member academy in Sacramento with Mayor Weiner, highlighting networking and shared challenges like infrastructure and hiring 📄. He announced upcoming City Manager's Conference in Monterey and the MCC dinner in Mill Valley. Strategic planning session dates were proposed for either Monday, March 25th, or Friday, March 28th, to align with budget preparations 📄. Politzer addressed PG&E concerns, stating staff awaits Assemblyman Huffman's health and safety report before bringing the item to Council, aiming for a comprehensive review 📄. In response to Councilmember Ford's question, he provided an update on hiring the new police chief, confirming she passed background checks and will start on February 22nd, with a community meet-and-greet planned at the Bay Model upon his return from Australia 📄. Mayor Weiner commented on the Sacramento trip's insight into California's small communities 📄 and made board appointments, including changes to the Housing Element Ad Hoc Committee with Stan Bear as chairperson, emphasizing a preference for non-council chairs 📄.
B
Mayor's Appointments of Councilmembers to Boards/Committees/Liaisons 📄
The Mayor, Herb Weiner, discusses appointments to various boards and committees. He mentions appointments to MTC (Metropolitan Transportation Commission) and MTA (Metropolitan Transportation Authority), indicating Carolyn Ford for MTC and Mike Kelly for MTA or related roles 📄. He notes that Jonathan Leon will serve as an alternate on one of these and also mentions appointments to parks and recreation, including himself (Mayor Winey, likely a misspeak for Weiner) and Jonathan Leon 📄. The discussion is brief and informal, with no detailed debate or opposition from councilmembers.
C
Future Agenda Items 📄
Councilmember Linda Pfeifer raised concerns about the scope of the economic study being conducted by the Business Advisory Committee (BAC) regarding the Marinship area. She stated that her understanding from the October 6th minutes was that the study would stay within current zoning designations, but she now perceives a 'big U-turn' as the study may not be confined to that 📄. Vice Mayor Mike Kelly clarified that the BAC, as a group, can bring up various topics, but the consultant, Robert Eiler, was told that reviewing zoning changes is not the tool for his study; he is looking at economic and work mix, not specifics 📄. Mayor Herb Weiner noted the study is a joint effort with the Chamber of Commerce and suggested getting clarification from the consultant, agreeing to bring the item back for clarity 📄. Councilmember Jonathan Leone added that the study is focusing on mix, not specifics 📄. Mayor Weiner also mentioned he will start asking for committee reports at the next meeting and thanked the Sausalito Police Department for assisting in finding a lost elderly woman 📄.
E
Other reports of significance 📄
Councilmembers discuss a recent fire incident, praising the police department's response and coordination 📄. Herb Weiner notes that multiple fire departments responded, which he initially calls 'ridiculous' but acknowledges is necessary for safety in hill areas due to wind risks 📄. Linda Pfeifer defends the multi-department response, stating there's no excuse for not bringing sufficient resources and suggesting it be addressed with Jim 📄. The consensus is that an overwhelming response is better than being underprepared, with Herb concluding 'better to be safe than sorry' 📄.
8
ADJOURNMENT 📄
The meeting concluded with brief administrative clarifications regarding committee assignments. Mayor Weiner noted he is attending various committee meetings to get a feel for them and indicated that assignments are not permanent and may change throughout the year 📄. Councilmember Ford sought clarification on committee names, specifically regarding Parks and Recreation and Telecommunications committees 📄. Councilmember Kelly suggested emailing the director and coordinating with Councilmember Ford to bring her up to speed on Telecommunications 📄.

Meeting Transcript

Time Speaker Text
00:00:00.03 Herb Weiner on an item on the Sausalito Yard Harbor. Is there any comments about this from the public?
00:00:08.84 Herb Weiner Bye.
00:00:10.21 Herb Weiner Not on closed session.
00:00:10.60 Unknown On closed session.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I'm not.
00:00:14.88 Herb Weiner Thank you, Chuck. You should take a roll call. Have a roll call, please.

We got it.
00:00:21.24 Debbie (City Clerk) Council member Pfeiffer.

Here.

Vice Mayor Kelly? Here. Council Member Ford? Here. Mayor Weiner?
00:00:29.36 Herb Weiner present.

Okay, we're going to at this time here adjourn to a closed session.
00:00:33.71 Herb Weiner Thank you.
00:00:34.76 Herb Weiner Thank you.
00:00:44.99 Herb Weiner Okay.
00:00:47.80 Herb Weiner Thank you.

you
00:00:48.50 Herb Weiner Thank you.
00:00:48.55 Herb Weiner .
00:00:48.73 Herb Weiner and
00:00:49.04 Herb Weiner Okay.
00:00:49.59 Herb Weiner you
00:00:49.76 Herb Weiner you Thank you.

Thank you.
00:00:51.75 Herb Weiner Thank you.
00:00:51.91 Herb Weiner Thank you.
00:00:51.94 Herb Weiner Thank you.
00:00:51.97 Herb Weiner Thank you.
00:00:52.31 Herb Weiner Thank you.
00:00:52.36 Herb Weiner .
00:00:52.70 Herb Weiner THE END OF
00:00:52.95 Herb Weiner Thank you.
00:01:14.26 Herb Weiner Okay. Good evening, everybody, and welcome to the January 25th meeting.

Thank you.

And Debbie, are we ready for a roll call, please?
00:01:29.25 Debbie (City Clerk) Councilmember Pfeiffer? Here. Councilmember Leon?
00:01:32.30 Herb Weiner Here.
00:01:32.62 Debbie (City Clerk) Thank you.

Vice Mayor Kelly.
00:01:34.21 Herb Weiner here.
00:01:34.46 Debbie (City Clerk) Councilmember Ford? Here. Mayor Weiner.
00:01:36.98 Herb Weiner I'm not.
00:01:37.55 Herb Weiner present.

Okay.

In closed session tonight we talked about the items that were D1 and that was the Sausalito Yard Harbor.

It starts to leave them.

Have a.

Are there any public comments on the closed session?

chat.

Chuck.

you So.

Okay. Anybody else in the public that would like to make a comment on the closed session item? And that was the bulkhead I was talking about.

Okay.
00:02:20.36 Herb Weiner I guess this time here we'll have the pledge.
00:02:28.67 Herb Weiner Okay, you have a moment.

by the way.
00:02:32.40 Herb Weiner By the way.
00:02:35.52 Herb Weiner to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation,
00:02:35.60 Herb Weiner to the flag of the United States of America.
00:02:38.98 Mary Wagner And to the...

but which is saying Thank you.
00:02:42.32 Unknown Thank you.
00:02:42.42 Mary Wagner I don't know.
00:02:43.33 Herb Weiner under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
00:02:50.97 Herb Weiner All right.

Thank you.
00:02:53.13 Herb Weiner Thank you.

Thank you.

All right, at this time here I'd like to move for the approval of the agenda.
00:03:00.75 Jonathan Leone I move approval.

Second.
00:03:02.18 Herb Weiner Definitely.

All in favor? Hi. How are you?
00:03:04.36 Jonathan Leone Bye.
00:03:10.85 Herb Weiner I've got two copies here, but anyway.
00:03:13.27 Herb Weiner Mm.
00:03:15.14 Herb Weiner Next item is approval of the...

approval of the minutes of the... Oh, I'm sorry. Thank you.

Okay, at this time here, is there anybody from the public that would like to make a comment on those items that are not on our agenda?

Oh, gee, we might get out early tonight.
00:03:40.49 Herb Weiner Yeah.
00:03:41.35 Herb Weiner Anybody? Okay, thank you. Let's move on next to approval of the minutes from the January 11, 2011 meeting.
00:03:56.16 Herb Weiner Ceremony for approval.
00:03:56.33 Linda Pfeifer So, buddy.
00:03:57.97 Herb Weiner Thank you.
00:03:58.17 Linda Pfeifer So good.
00:03:58.19 Herb Weiner Second. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Okay.
00:04:00.52 Linda Pfeifer I.
00:04:05.28 Herb Weiner Thank you.

Next item we have is...
00:04:11.25 Herb Weiner What is it? Oh, the country.
00:04:12.75 Herb Weiner Thank you.

Yeah.
00:04:14.42 Herb Weiner Thank you.

Thank you.
00:04:16.06 Herb Weiner You all got the updated version. There were just two items on that, not three.
00:04:20.51 Herb Weiner Right.
00:04:22.89 Jonathan Leone you
00:04:23.23 Herb Weiner The middle one should be taken out of that tree.
00:04:25.22 Jonathan Leone Yeah, I saw you get that.

There was nothing attached.
00:04:28.48 Herb Weiner There's only two items. There might be three.
00:04:29.56 Jonathan Leone City.

you
00:04:33.78 Herb Weiner Okay.

At this time, can I get a...

Any?
00:04:39.62 Linda Pfeifer Any of it? Actually, Mayor.
00:04:42.30 Herb Weiner And yes, Council Member Pfeiffer.
00:04:43.90 Linda Pfeifer I would like to pull item 4A, please.
00:04:47.45 Herb Weiner for a city manager.
00:04:54.82 Herb Weiner Thank you.
00:04:58.57 Herb Weiner Thank you.

you
00:04:59.04 Herb Weiner Mmm.

Thank you.
00:05:02.26 Herb Weiner Yeah, let's make it succeed.
00:05:12.29 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.
00:05:12.30 Mike Kelly So there's just one.
00:05:14.11 Herb Weiner So then we just have one item on that, given approval on that, on this consent.
00:05:20.00 Herb Weiner Move approval.
00:05:21.72 Herb Weiner I'm sorry. Anybody from the public that would like to comment on that? One item please.
00:05:27.24 Herb Weiner Mm-hmm.
00:05:30.68 Herb Weiner And that item is the award contract for the construction of the 1B sewer priority project.

Okay.

Bring it back.

home.
00:05:42.59 Jonathon Goldman Mr. Mayor, forgive me if I may. It was originally intended to be an award, but as a result of the fact that we don't have a funding commitment from State Revolving Fund, staff, instead of requesting award, has given the council and members of the community a status update. If you'd like that information is in the packet. If you'd like, have questions about that or want me to discuss it, I'll be happy to. But I want to make it clear that the consent item is not an award of a contract.
00:05:43.39 Herb Weiner Forgive me.
00:05:44.01 Mike Kelly Thank you.
00:06:16.61 Jonathan Leone Okay.
00:06:17.91 Jonathon Goldman Okay.
00:06:17.95 Jonathan Leone So Jonathan, you'll have to come back here again if you have it awarded.

Thank you.
00:06:22.25 Jonathon Goldman Thank you.

That's correct.
00:06:23.72 Jonathan Leone you Any idea when that will be?

Bye.
00:06:28.98 Herb Weiner I'm trying to walk away from those things.
00:06:30.35 Jonathan Leone Well, I guess a better question is how long a period are these bids goods?
00:06:31.35 Herb Weiner Thank you.
00:06:31.40 Jonathon Goldman you
00:06:31.43 Herb Weiner .
00:06:34.86 Jonathon Goldman The bids are good for 120 days from the date that they were opened. We have notified not only the Division of Financial Assistance responsible for administering the Clean Water State Revolving Fund, but have also notified Assemblyman Huffman's office, Supervisor McClashen's office, and the Environmental Protection Agency that we expect them to issue a funding commitment within that bid period or within that period in which the bids are valid. And I remain optimistic that we will get that funding commitment within that period and that we will be in a position to award that work as soon as we get that funding commitment.
00:06:34.87 Jonathan Leone Um,
00:06:57.43 Mary Wagner agency.
00:07:04.34 Linda Pfeifer Okay.
00:07:08.42 Linda Pfeifer Okay.
00:07:17.45 Jonathan Leone Thank you.

So we don't need to take any action on this tonight then.

Thank you.
00:07:21.99 Jonathon Goldman No, thank you.
00:07:23.20 Jonathan Leone Thank you.
00:07:23.39 Herb Weiner Thank you.
00:07:24.92 Jonathan Leone Thank you.
00:07:25.02 Herb Weiner Thank you.
00:07:25.07 Jonathan Leone Thank you.
00:07:25.18 Herb Weiner you
00:07:25.36 Jonathan Leone Thank you.
00:07:25.38 Herb Weiner Thank you.
00:07:25.41 Jonathan Leone you
00:07:25.48 Herb Weiner Thank you.
00:07:26.19 Jonathon Goldman Thank you.
00:07:26.21 Herb Weiner Okay.

All right, thank you. So then what we have on this is that we've moved the...

the city manager amendment for 6E and We just got a status report on the sewer priority project, and there was no action taken on that. So with that, we'll start our first presentation.

meeting, discussion on CalPERS, actuary reports on the pension funding, and that would be Charles Francis.
00:08:05.19 Jeffrey Chase Good evening, Mr. Mayor, members of the City Council. Tonight's agenda item is to study the analysis of the CalPERS 2009 actuarial report. As the City Council is aware, annually CalPERS prepares an actuarial report of all three of the city's pension plans. We have three pension plans, a miscellaneous plan that are in the CalPERS miscellaneous pool, and a police plan and a fire plan which are in the CalPERS safety pool. To assist the city in reviewing that, we've hired Dr. John Bartel, president of Bartel Associates as the city's actuary, and he's here tonight to discuss in detail the investment returns, the actuarial assumptions, the city of Sausalito's contribution rates, and impacts and implications of alternative pension tiers.

since He last appeared before us in March.

2010 there's been a lot of discussions about pensions at the local level here in Sausalito in the county level and also at the state level and there's many questions that we've had and the City Council is is very interested engaged in what the city can and can't do regarding pension reform so to assist us in completely or more thoroughly understanding pensions we've invited And Barbara Ware, who's the senior actuary from CalPERS. She's the actuary who's assigned for the city of Sausalito. And she's here tonight to help us further discuss some of the proposed changes that's going on at CalPERS in regards to the discount rate and answer the city's questions about unfunded liabilities, the CalPERS plans and pools and the implications of the city of Sausalito to some of the pension reform that's out there. We want this to be very interactive, City Council, unlike other presentations where we ask you to wait until the presentations are finished before asking questions. We would like you to be engaged in questions with each of these consultants and actuaries and experts throughout their presentations. We've allocated an hour.

Ideally, 15 minutes for each of them to talk about presentations, and then another 15 minutes each, and then another 30 minutes for detailed questions and grilling, if you will, between the city council and the consultants. We're not asking for the city council to make any action tonight, but just a thorough understanding of our pensions, where we are, and then as we go through the budget process for our 2011-12, perhaps there'll be a need to study a workshop, have a further workshop at that point in time.

So with that, I'd like to turn the, unless there's some specific questions for me, I'll turn the presentation over to Dr. John Partell.

Thank you.
00:10:57.48 Debbie (City Clerk) Thank you.
00:11:00.57 John Bartel So thank you.

Thank you very much. So in the interest of full disclosure, and I kind of hate to correct Charlie because he rarely makes a mistake. I'm not a, I've been called lots of things, but I'm not a doctor. So I don't have any, I am however an associate in the Society of Actuaries for whatever that's worth, but it's not worth as much as a PhD, just to be clear.
00:11:17.09 Mary Wagner Thank you.
00:11:17.11 Charles Melton I am.
00:11:27.37 Herb Weiner As long as you make us feel good.
00:11:29.81 John Bartel .

It's a great day.

So one of the questions we did not go through at the beginning, so do you guys have a, is it okay if we use the clicker, is that okay?

Thank you.

I know that it might be dangerous giving this That's why you're right.

Thank you.

Thank you.

So my section is relatively short. So even though you see 51 slides there, I'm not going to go through all 51. I'd be happy to. I would like, though, to just re-encourage you to ask questions as we go. At the beginning of the discussion outline, I really have four slides that go through the highlights of the 51 pages in our analysis. So issue number one is CalPERS investment return in particular for the fiscal year ending June 3009, particularly bad minus 24%. Now we put minus 24 up there. Important for you all to understand that when an actuary talks about a loss, we're actually not looking at minus 24. We're looking at the difference between what the actuaries expected the investment return to be, seven and three quarters, and minus 24. So really from an actuarial perspective, we're talking about a 32% difference in the market value of assets compared to where the actuaries thought it was going to be. So we really have a 32% loss. That's number one. Number two, when you look at the investment return June 3010, it looks certainly very good, plus 13.3. So if you look at minus 24, you look at plus 13.3, it looks like we've made back half of the loss. Unfortunately, that's not the case. You have to compare that also to the assumed rate of return of seven and three quarters. So that's about a five and a half percent gain. So you only need another five years of 13.3 to get back
00:11:49.88 Herb Weiner Yeah.
00:13:46.35 John Bartel that 32% loss and even then because of compounding you're not quite there. So the investment return for the current fiscal year is certainly looking good. It's a little early in the year to know for sure what it's going to be. But again, even two years of 13%, 14% is just not going to take care of those losses.

So those losses absent very good investment returns will result in higher contribution rates.

arguably no avoiding that.

However, CalPERS actions for rate smoothing have mitigated the contribution rate increases in the short run. In the long run, they're going to have to be there. And so that's not the news that anybody wants to hear, but that just...

is the case, if you will. In addition, CalPERS' experience study recently factored into the 11-12 contribution rates had a noticeable impact on your plans, increasing contribution rates, primarily because of earlier expected retirements for the miscellaneous plan and longevity, life expectancy, if you will, for both the miscellaneous and safety plans. And then sort of the final bullet here is CalPERS is in the process right now of looking at that 7 3 quarters investment return assumption.

We don't really know where they're going to go. We don't really know yet what the recommendation of CalPERS Chief Actuary is going to be.

To the extent that there's a betting line on this, I think most of the money would be at 7.5%. There might be a strong argument for reducing it a little bit more than that, but I think the odds are excellent that 7.5% is where it will end up. That will increase rates in 12-13. And there might be an argument that if they should be at 7.25, then future rates may go up a little bit more to accommodate reality versus the assumption.
00:16:19.59 Carolyn Ford Mr. Bartell, a question. How many years do you think it will take...

for us, for CalPERS to regain where they were, the equity that they lost in the 24% drop, or as you say, 32%, considering that now the money they're investing is minus that 24% that they lost. How many years do you think it will take to catch up?

And when do you see the bulk of the expenses hitting Sausalito? When are our contributions going to go up?
00:17:10.03 John Bartel So I was told years ago to never apologize as part of a presentation. I don't make a presentation anymore without apologizing because this answer may not be very satisfactory to you.

But it's the best answer I can give.

In order to answer that question, you have to think about where future investment return is going to be. And it would be great if I knew what future...
00:17:41.37 Mike Kelly Tell us the future for market returns for the next 15 years.
00:17:42.87 John Bartel for market returns for the next 15 years. It would be great, so I know you all don't care very much about this, but the fact of the matter is, is being an actuary is one of the best jobs in the world. And the reason is,
00:17:53.47 Herb Weiner And the wrong thing.
00:17:55.20 John Bartel is because I wake up every morning knowing that the answer I gave a client yesterday was wrong.
00:18:03.00 Herb Weiner Thank you.
00:18:03.49 John Bartel So if most people had that job description, it would be kind of challenging. So, but here, I'm gonna give you a range of where I think it's gonna be.

drop the investment return to 7.5% and they really get a 7.5% rate of return. This is, you're going to hear me say that 30 years from now you will still be having high contribution rates because of the delay in paying the, in other words, you heard me say that The only way to make up that investment return is really two ways. Higher investment return.

I wouldn't put my money on that. Or higher contributions. I'm a little worried that the contributions aren't high enough to mitigate a very, very long-term high contribution rate. So that's a very unsatisfactory answer.
00:19:08.21 Herb Weiner Mm-hmm.
00:19:08.64 John Bartel If investment return ends up being particularly good, Let's just pretend for a moment, extended periods of rates of return in the mid to low teens, then that answer instead of being 30 years might be less than 10 years.

If investment return is bad, And I'm not an investment guy.

So you ought to not pay attention to this. I'm a little worried.

When I look at where the market is today and I look at where unemployment and underemployment is, I'm a little worried that the market might be a little overvalued and we may be in for extended periods of poorer investment return, then 30 years ain't gonna be enough.

In other words, those rates will continue to go up at very, very steep rates. So the fact of the matter is, is the only way I can answer that question is by – by presupposing we know what the investment return is going to be. So that, I know that's not a very satisfactory answer. I wish I had a better answer.
00:20:16.95 Carolyn Ford going to be.
00:20:21.68 Carolyn Ford Okay, well then the second part of my question, and maybe you're going to answer this as you go through the presentation, so if you are, I'll just wait. But the second part of it is when can we expect the hit? I've heard 2012, and how much is it going to be from what Charlie has told us? We currently pay a million,
00:20:43.30 Herb Weiner Thank you.
00:20:50.03 Carolyn Ford $1,270,935 was what the city paid in 2009. And $1,372,939 is what we paid in 2010. Now, when is this going to be kicked up?
00:21:08.36 John Bartel A lot higher. Slide two, thank you very much. You kind of sat at the table for the next slide. All right. Now, again, apology number two, these are not in dollar amounts.
00:21:08.37 Carolyn Ford A live hike.

I'm gonna say at the table for the next slide.
00:21:19.71 John Bartel And so we could probably pull our calculators out and translate them into dollars, but let's look at contribution rates as a percentage of pay, because that might give you a feel. So in the 11, you know what your rate is going to be for 11-12. For the miscellaneous plan, you're going to be at 15.6% of pay for the employer rate. Employees, of course, pay They're 8%. We think that 15.6 is going to grow to in the neighborhood of 19 to 24 in the 16, 17 fiscal year It'll be 24 if investment return is crummy. Doesn't mean it couldn't be worse than that. It'll be 19 if investment return is good.

these numbers presume CalPERS lowers their investment return to 7.5. So what will happen is under the current CalPERS smoothing methodology, the rates, if they meet their assumed rate of return, will, crazy as it seems, gradually continue to increase by a modest amount into the future. In other words, the additional amount you'll have to pay because you're kind of lagging, the market value will be below the actuarial value.
00:22:39.28 Mary Wagner amount.
00:22:51.06 John Bartel You'll just have to continue to pay a little bit more three-tenths of a percent, four-tenths of a percent in that neighborhood. And what you really see is police and fire are the ones with the bigger contribution rates going from 38.5 to 46 to 53, 31.5 to 39 to 46, depending upon investment return. The one caveat I'll give you here is these presume the city would not pay off its side fund and, you know, I make recommendations to clients all the time that they don't pay attention to. If I were you all, I would, that's one way where you can save some money. You have to spend money to do it. I'm not going to suggest to you that it's an easy thing to do, but you could save money by sort of borrowing out of your own reserves and then paying those reserves back.
00:23:27.81 Mary Wagner Thank you.
00:23:34.76 Mary Wagner Thank you.
00:23:58.25 John Bartel And so that's another couple of slides, but these presume you do not pay those side funds amounts off. So rates will drop if you do.

Okay.

So did that, I'm not sure that really answered your question because it's in percentage of pay. Is that okay?
00:24:18.67 Carolyn Ford I suppose so. I would like to see the dollar amounts are what strike home, I think. That's what I would like to see. So I'll call that.
00:24:24.85 John Bartel That's what I would like to see.

So I'll tell you what, while Barbara is talking, I'll pull my calculator out and see if I can give you some estimates. Oh, great. Thank you very much. Okay.
00:24:36.10 Carolyn Ford Thank you.
00:24:36.20 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.
00:24:36.39 Carolyn Ford Thank you very much.
00:24:39.14 John Bartel Sure.
00:24:39.60 Linda Pfeifer Yes, your prior slide referred to the smoothing formulas that CalPERS is using. And, you know, my concern about smoothing is, is it possible that this is a strategy that CalPERS is created to you know, prevent the sticker shocks that the cities would be you know, incurring if they saw the truth, you know, just how bad it is right now. And could we wind up paying more with this 15 year and a 30 year amortization?
00:25:10.70 John Bartel So you really have two questions there. And the first question is, is the CalPERS board being political.

I'm paraphrasing a little. And the second question is, will the result of that smoothing, whether it's political or not, mean you're gonna pay more later. So the answer to the second one is no question in my mind. Unless investment return is unbelievably good for an extended period of time, yes.

You will, if you owe somebody some money, I use this analogy, it's a crummy analogy, but if somebody brought me in, I'm not sure they should, but if somebody brought me in to advise a young couple about credit card debt, My comment to them would be, Don't spend any money until you pay your credit cards off. Don't go out to dinner. It is so important to pay those off, and the modifications to the smoothing are kind of doing the opposite.

They are delaying that now.

I'm not a political animal.

And so I don't think I know whether they're doing it. In fact, I can tell you I don't know.

for sure whether they're doing it for political reasons. It would not surprise me if one or more of the CalPERS board members want to do this for political reasons. I can certainly tell you that's not the case for all the CalPERS board members. But whether it's a majority or not, I'm sorry, I just don't know.
00:26:53.35 Linda Pfeifer Thank you. And my other question was I noticed that in looking at the risk pool, The funded ratio is 88% in 2008.

just plummeted.

to 59% in That's 750 million.
00:27:10.95 John Bartel You know, $750 million. I can interrupt on a market value basis. That's right. That's totally right.
00:27:14.56 Linda Pfeifer That's right. That's right. And with a, what was it, a $750 million unfunded liability?
00:27:23.29 Herb Weiner That's right.
00:27:23.74 Linda Pfeifer So, you know, I looked at these numbers and it was, you know, of great concern and I just have a lot of questions. I'm wondering, should I hold my questions around that? No. No, no. Let's talk. Let's talk about them.
00:27:35.77 Herb Weiner No, no, let's talk. Let's talk about them.
00:27:39.10 Linda Pfeifer Here's my question.
00:27:40.41 Herb Weiner Okay.
00:27:41.31 Linda Pfeifer Um, This is just what we know about with Sausalito in this risk pool of a hundred or, you know, group of other cities.

um, Really, what I'm interested in is also knowing what the actual numbers are in dollars for Sausalito's assets, for our unfunded liability, and for our funded ratio.

And, and.
00:28:07.41 John Bartel And then... I'm sorry. I was gonna interrupt you and I didn't wanna do that.
00:28:11.23 Herb Weiner I want to move. Yeah, I want to move. Go ahead.

You're getting...
00:28:15.26 John Bartel Should I answer that portion of the question and then? Yeah, let's answer that portion one more minute. So here is another crummy answer to a very, very good question. Is there any good ones? Well...
00:28:19.87 Herb Weiner Yeah, let's answer that, Pastor Owen. Okay.
00:28:31.41 John Bartel These days, not very many, thank you, I'm sorry. But here's the crummy answer to that, you're in a pool.

And so CalPERS does not disclose, they don't provide the information on what portion of the assets are yours or what portion of the assets are any individual agency. So we could, you could go to CalPERS and you could say, tell us what that number is. I don't want to answer for Barbara, so maybe I'll let her give you that answer. You should expect the answer is going to be, we just don't provide that information. You can estimate that information.

which can certainly be done, and there are ways to estimate it, but it's an estimate. And it's a point in time sort of a thing. It's going to change.

And the fact of the matter is that the answer isn't going to be very satisfactory because you could have an answer that will be on a market value basis. You could have an answer that's on an actuarial value of assets basis.
00:29:45.78 Linda Pfeifer I would be interested in the MV.
00:29:48.09 John Bartel Yeah, no, I understand. So we can, maybe that'll be calculation number two that I do. While Barbara is talking, I can estimate it for you, but it's going to change.
00:29:48.85 Linda Pfeifer Bye.
00:30:03.36 Linda Pfeifer Yeah, I'm interested in the actual members and I'll hold my further questions related to that for maybe Barbara perhaps.
00:30:12.27 Herb Weiner Okay. Go ahead. Thank you.

Okay. You're on.
00:30:16.17 Herb Weiner If you want.
00:30:16.96 John Bartel Yeah.

Pfft!

Thank you.

Thank you.

So second tier benefit, the other thing that we've taken a look at, this is really an issue that just about every agency is looking at. So we have pages on pages of tables of numbers.

that project out the savings depending upon the
00:30:38.98 Herb Weiner Thank you.
00:30:39.37 John Bartel second tier that it might go to, whether it's fire, police, or miscellaneous. The fact of the matter is that you end up not saving very much. Why do you not save very much? Well, if you think about this for a second, your unfunded liability, your pool's unfunded liability, is a function of the value of benefits that have been earned.

compared to the assets. Well, if you put in a second tier, you're changing benefits for people that are being hired in the future.

So those folks have no state.

in the actuarial accrued liability. It does not change your unfunded liability. You still have to pay that off. So you're only changing what's referred to as the normal cost, the value of benefits being earned by your new employees. And so you save very, very little until that group of employees becomes a significant portion of your payroll. So it's a very, very long-term savings, meaning 20, 30 years.

And so I kind of, even in the long run your savings does not end up being, it's not going to solve any budget shortfall by any stretch of the imagination.

So I say this to clients all the time, it seems counterintuitive, but the reason to put in a second tier is is not really financially related.

The reason to put in a second tier is because you look at the benefit that you provide and you say, gee, maybe we shouldn't have done that. Maybe that provides more than is necessary. And so what we want to do is we want to put in a benefit that is fair and reasonable to both the employees and the taxpayers.

And so that's the reason to do it. Not really from a financial perspective, there's also a
00:32:34.49 Mary Wagner Mm-hmm.
00:32:42.66 John Bartel what I refer to as sort of a governance risk in putting in a second tier. If you put, let's pretend for a moment that you put in a second tier, you go for miscellaneous to 2% at 60.

And you go, everything is looking hunky-dory, and then all of a sudden we have a significant recovery.
00:32:59.47 Herb Weiner And...
00:33:02.71 John Bartel And so money is more readily available. And a future council says, oh, now we can afford to go back to the old formula that we had
00:33:02.98 Herb Weiner And so,
00:33:17.20 John Bartel If that happens, it will actually cost you more money than if you had not made the change.

And so it is important if you consider making a change that you that you seriously think about what the chances are that it might change back.

And And so it's not a particularly easy decision. So that's really why I say it shouldn't be a financial decision, it should be because that's what you believe the right formula is.

rather than saying we're going to save a lot of money to go ahead and do that. I know that's not really what people want to hear, but unfortunately, I think it's as close to the hard, honest acts as you can get. And then side fund, we kind of used the police plan as an example. The way the side fund works is it was, what happened was when you all joined the risk pool back in the 2003 valuation, your unfunded liability at that time, which was stand alone, became part of a risk pool, and so that unfunded liability became like a The pool considered that amount of contribution receivable. They knew that they were going to get it. They treat it kind of like a present value of future payments, and they charge you at the assumed rate of return of seven and three quarters. So if you look at the money in your internal service funds and your own investment funds, you're not earning seven and three quarters, earning maybe one for sake of argument. So you could, the issue is, the issue is do you have enough money to go ahead and pay those amounts off? If you do, if you look at the police, $3 million balance at June 30, 2011, if paid off at June 30, that results in a $1.8 million cash savings over the life of the of the side fund amortization period, if you discount that back at some sort of reasonable discount rate of 4%.

you get to an $800,000 savings.

So, Spend three million bucks.

And if you take that money and then pay your, whatever fund you're borrowing it from back, you can end up sort of ahead of the game and you really will have saved money. The issue of course is if you have cash to be able to do that, I'm not going to suggest that you do, but that's arguably the issue.
00:36:18.51 Carolyn Ford Bye.

Mr. Barkell, could we pay partial, make a partial payment?
00:36:25.97 John Bartel Again, what I will do is let – so I'm confident her answer to this is going to be yes, but I think that's really a question Barbara ought to answer. But I don't think there's much doubt in my mind that you could do that. Okay, great. So that's really my presentation. I'm happy to go through any of the other detail, but it might make a certain amount of sense to have Barbara go through hers.
00:36:40.67 Herb Weiner Okay, great.
00:36:55.08 Herb Weiner That's right.

Thank you. Before Bible comes up, Charlie, could you?
00:37:06.86 Mike Kelly Charlie, just a quick question on the side fund. We went through this analysis not so long ago, I think last summer, and we didn't achieve the savings because if you weren't willing to use your own cash, if you accounted for issuance costs.
00:37:15.82 Mary Wagner BEFORE.

Thank you.
00:37:16.61 Jeffrey Chase Bye.
00:37:22.38 Mike Kelly how the market's kind of spiked up in muni rates.
00:37:25.35 Jeffrey Chase We look at this every month. I go out to the interest rate market and say, what would it cost me to borrow? What are the issuance costs? And then what would the present value savings would be? And then we bring that to the Finance Committee. And, you know, as Council Member Leon said, the present value savings after paying issuance costs isn't there to warrant these kinds of savings.
00:37:29.28 Mike Kelly Thank you.
00:37:50.01 Linda Pfeifer Charlie, a quick question about side funds. Isn't it true too that if we were to pay off
00:37:50.63 Jeffrey Chase I'm not sure.
00:37:57.80 Linda Pfeifer the side funds and then this town later on went bankrupt with the CalPERS burden that the If we hadn't paid off the side fund, that would not be considered something we would need to pay off.

you know, funded a bond or something to pay off the side fund, that would be something we would be on the hook for.
00:38:23.03 Jeffrey Chase If we did what's called a pension obligation bond in order to pay off the side fund, we would still have the obligation to pay off the pension obligation bond.

Thank you.
00:38:31.84 Herb Weiner Thank you.
00:38:31.94 Herb Weiner Bye.
00:38:31.97 Herb Weiner Mm-hmm.

OK.
00:38:33.59 Mike Kelly But it would be an equally legally binding obligation whether it's to CalPERS or a bond. You'd have to essentially default on everything in order to wipe them both. So there's no difference between the two.
00:38:41.68 Herb Weiner I know it.
00:38:42.39 Linda Pfeifer Right, it was bank.

Well, bankrupt, but there is a difference. If you were to, if you, did not pay If you did not pay off the side fund, then it's my understanding that that would not be something we would be held to.

if we went bankrupt.
00:38:59.65 Jeffrey Chase Actually, I had a discussion as we were looking at one alternative to borrowing on what is the parity obligation on the city's revenues from a pension obligation bond to, for example, paying salaries. And although we didn't run it by a bond attorney, the kind of general conclusion was it would have an equal obligation against the city. So, the light of bankruptcy it would be up to a court at that point.
00:39:31.56 Jonathan Leone There is no, we are 100% liable for our unfunded pension liability. There is no escape. Bankruptcy did not save Vallejo, and it will not save us. So there's no way out of it whether we side-funded or not side-funded. It's a pension obligation we owe, period.
00:39:41.95 Mary Wagner Thank you.
00:39:41.97 Mike Kelly Thank you.
00:39:46.16 Mike Kelly Thank you.

Great.
00:39:47.39 Jonathan Leone Thank you.
00:39:47.41 Mike Kelly you
00:39:47.47 Jonathan Leone Thank you.
00:39:47.49 Mike Kelly And the idea that we're debating whether bankruptcy is a good thing or not is actually not a productive problem.
00:39:52.08 Jonathan Leone It's not a question.
00:39:53.97 Linda Pfeifer Did you read the report?
00:39:55.79 Unknown Thank you.
00:39:55.81 Mike Kelly Yeah.

Do you look at our financial statements to see whether we're in danger of going bankrupt? No.
00:39:57.50 Unknown Thank you.
00:39:57.51 Linda Pfeifer Do you look at
00:39:58.20 Unknown Thank you.
00:39:58.34 Linda Pfeifer financial.
00:39:58.73 Unknown Thank you.
00:39:58.78 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.
00:39:58.90 Unknown to be able to get the
00:40:02.20 Unknown Yeah.

We'll sell you a bag or whatever.
00:40:03.10 Mike Kelly Thank you.
00:40:04.48 Herb Weiner Not even though it is.

Okay, thank you, Charlotte. And Barbara, we're ready for you now.

Thank you.
00:40:14.47 Barbara Ware news.

OK.

as well.
00:40:25.66 Herb Weiner Who there is.
00:40:28.66 Barbara Ware Thank you.

Okay.

Again, any questions, just feel free to interrupt. But I was going to talk a little more specifically about your plan. I was going to talk about your plan history and your rate history, future trends, and maybe some options for lowering costs. A lot of it's going to repeat what John's already said, so I might gloss over a little bit of it.

But just to recap what you folks have done, the miscellaneous plan went to 2% at 55 in March of 01, then to 2.5 at 55 in July of 03.

And also in July of 2003, the employees pay their own contributions, started paying their own contributions. The fire plan went to 3% at 55 in June of 2000.

Police plan went to 3 at 55.

in November of 01 and the employees began picking up their own contributions in July of 2003 for the police as well.

Um, just to give you an idea of what What else is going on out there? The most common formula for miscellaneous is the two at 55.

little over one third of the plans have that formula.

one-fourth or less have the 2% at 60. That's not that many have that, and that tends to not be cities. It tends to be mosquito districts or something like that.

The remaining are in the AB 616 formulas, about one-third of that remaining.
00:42:16.68 Jonathan Leone Could you just explain for people who don't know what 2 at 55 means and AB 616 and so on? These are people out here that don't.
00:42:21.66 Barbara Ware B619.

Okay, there are five different formulas available for the miscellaneous plan.
00:42:24.17 Jonathan Leone Okay.
00:42:33.17 Barbara Ware These are sort of the nicknames for the plans, but Two at 55 offers 2% of your final pay, and it's either one year or three years, at age 55. The age factors vary depending on when you actually do retire. Likewise, 2% at 60, that formula starts at two at 60.

a list of all the age factors for all the formulas if you're interested in it. I think where he's going,
00:43:03.64 Mike Kelly I think where he's going is what do you get if, let's say you fully vested, you were for the 20 or 30 years, depending on the class, and you retire at two at 55, what does that entitle the employee to receive?
00:43:17.36 Herb Weiner Okay.
00:43:17.95 Mike Kelly each year and kind of use a pick $100,000 or whatever the easy math is, $50,000 to sort of let so people can get their head around it.
00:43:25.92 Barbara Ware Okay, so it would be 2% of your 100,000 times your years of service.
00:43:37.72 Mary Wagner So.
00:43:40.70 Barbara Ware multiply that out, but that's basically what it is. And that 2% factor is at 55.
00:43:44.03 Mike Kelly 50 grand.
00:43:44.65 Herb Weiner Thank you.
00:43:49.78 Mike Kelly Right, so if you had 30 years vesting, you made $100,000 or two, you'd be at $60,000 a year of pension.
00:43:52.21 Barbara Ware at 30.
00:43:58.89 Barbara Ware Right.

Thank you.

Anyway, for the remaining people, about a third of them have what you have, which is the 2.5 at 55, and again, that's a third of the remaining people that aren't in the first two categories. What less than half have the 2.7 at 55, and then the rest are in the 3 at 60, and those three are in order of how valuable the benefits are. So you have the least valuable of the new formulas.

and about three quarters of the plans have one year final average comp, FAC as final average compensation, rather than the three year, Thank you.
00:44:47.86 Jonathan Leone Can you change that in midstream in a plan? Once you're in, you're in, right?
00:44:52.25 Barbara Ware once you're in here and yeah, you can't go backwards. So it would happen.
00:44:55.27 Jonathan Leone So it would have to be, yeah.
00:44:57.82 Barbara Ware without doing a tier two, which is what John was talking about.
00:44:57.89 Carolyn Ford Thank you.
00:44:57.91 Jonathan Leone Thank you.
00:44:58.02 Carolyn Ford Yeah.
00:45:01.50 Carolyn Ford And so, Ms. Weyer, we have a final year, or do we have a three-year average?
00:45:06.98 Barbara Ware you have final year.
00:45:08.32 Carolyn Ford Thank you.
00:45:13.13 Barbara Ware Thank you.

Okay, for the safety, the most common plan is three at 50, and between a half and two-thirds of the agencies have that. That is the most valuable formula for the safety groups. And less than 10% have the two at 55 and only slightly more have two at 50. Those are the least valuable formulas, and not very many people have those. The one that you have,
00:45:42.66 Mary Wagner THE ONE THAT YOU HAVE
00:45:46.15 Barbara Ware is everybody else, which is the three at 55. And about 85% have the one-year final average comp. Again, that's what you have with the higher formulas. But I just found out while I was preparing this. Only about a third of them have the one-year final average comp. For the few that have the lower formulas, they also tend to have a three-year final.
00:46:08.66 Herb Weiner No.
00:46:12.83 Barbara Ware Oh, this is busy.

Hopefully you have this in front of you. But this is your rate history, just so that you can see what has happened with the rates.

And off to the right, I've written in what happened at particular times so you can see when the benefits got changed, when pooling occurred, when assumptions changed, because there's often some leaps in the rates for those. And then the next slide is just, this is for the city. This is the same thing but in graphic form. So took a big dip.

late 90s, and then his fund back out.

MS. With attitude.
00:47:05.24 Mike Kelly And in a sense, if I may ask your opinion, and you're not on the investment side, so maybe you can talk trash about those people.

forgiveness that went on in the the ought years is coming back to haunt us now. Not just the market returns in the last two years or three years.
00:47:20.41 Herb Weiner Not just.
00:47:20.99 Barbara Ware Thank you.
00:47:23.30 Herb Weiner Thank you.
00:47:23.33 Barbara Ware That's exactly what happened.
00:47:24.55 Mike Kelly So.
00:47:26.08 Barbara Ware Yeah.

And that's...

kind of a little bit addressing the question about the decision of smoothing.

If that had been done before, that forgiveness.

It wouldn't have been like that. It would have been much more level across.

my opinion, and I can't speak for everybody either, but I think the thought behind the smoothing was that If our assumptions are correct, then the bad years will offset the good years, and over time, it will equal out.

whether that happens or not.

It was hard to say, but I think that was the thinking behind that. And because people got into so much trouble because they forgave those years.
00:48:15.02 Mary Wagner Thank you.
00:48:23.70 Barbara Ware Okay, future trends. I'm going to say pretty much what John said. Costs will almost certainly continue upwards.

The rate smoothing means gains and losses are recognized gradually.
00:48:36.05 Herb Weiner Thank you.
00:48:36.27 Barbara Ware expecting offsets, which is what I just said. But the losses in 07-08 and 08-09 will reverberate for years, 20-30 years, as he said. The extent of the increase depends on future experience.

One other piece is sort of separate from Heather's, but I added it on there.

piece of the cost increases as payroll decreases. And that's When people have seen that happen, they have not been happy because they've lowered payroll, thinking, oh, good, this is going to save us lots of money. But what happens is the side fund is determined as a dollar amount, then divided by payroll. The payroll drops, the percent goes up, the rate goes up.
00:49:17.22 Mary Wagner from the society.

Thank you.
00:49:20.31 Herb Weiner Mm-hmm.
00:49:21.02 Mary Wagner Thank you.
00:49:24.83 Jonathan Leone I was out.
00:49:27.74 Unknown So the current people have been The future.
00:49:34.35 Barbara Ware Again, as John said, investment return assumption may change. It's to be decided at the March board meeting.

Possibly a decrease to 7.5, when I wrote this I said 7.25. Last I heard is that it's almost certainly, but it changes from day to day, going to be either 7 3 quarters or 7 1 1 half.

The contribution rate will go up about 2% to 3% per 1.25% decrease in the assumption for miscellaneous, and it will go up about 4% to 5% for the safety plans per 1.25% decrease in the assumption. So the numbers that John showed included the assumption that we were going to go to 7.5 and have those increases built into it.
00:50:29.31 Herb Weiner Thank you.
00:50:29.47 Barbara Ware Thank you.
00:50:33.51 Barbara Ware Okay, let's talk about some options for lowering costs.
00:50:34.43 Herb Weiner about some options for lowering
00:50:37.57 Barbara Ware There aren't a lot of them. Lower benefits going to a Tier 2. Change the EPMC, which is the employer paid member contributions for the fire plan. There's cost sharing, lump sum payment toward the side fund, or plan termination.
00:50:57.48 Jonathan Leone We'll talk about planned termination for a minute.
00:50:59.57 Barbara Ware Okay.

I...
00:51:00.77 Jonathan Leone Thank you.

Thank you.
00:51:00.85 Linda Pfeifer THE END OF THE END OF THE Thank you.

Thank you.

You have a slide later. I do have slides.
00:51:02.49 Barbara Ware I do have slides. Do you want to wait?
00:51:04.07 Jonathan Leone Thank you.

I'm not sure.
00:51:04.90 Linda Pfeifer Yeah.
00:51:05.02 Barbara Ware Thank you.
00:51:05.26 Linda Pfeifer doing.
00:51:05.56 Barbara Ware Thank you.
00:51:05.59 Linda Pfeifer All right.
00:51:07.18 Jonathan Leone I didn't jump ahead. I know, I know, everybody gets excited.
00:51:08.85 Barbara Ware I know, I know, everybody gets excited.
00:51:12.80 Jonathan Leone Um,
00:51:15.08 Barbara Ware Lower benefits may be applied only to new employees, the way things are right now. And as John said, the cost decrease will be realized only as new employees replace current ones. So it takes a really long time to see any kind of savings if you do that.
00:51:35.50 Barbara Ware Cost sharing. Right now, if you do cost sharing through contract, cost sharing means that the employees pick up part of the employer cost. It has to be tied to an amendment that's been done within the last, I can't remember how many years, the law says it's like 20 or 25 years, so you do have those. Right now, it's not available if you have two tiers, so you can't do both the cost sharing and the second tier.
00:51:54.73 Mary Wagner you do have.
00:52:06.58 Barbara Ware The maximum amount is the increase in the normal cost plus a 20-year amortization, this is very actuarial here, of the increase in the accrued liability due to the amendment. So they can only cost share for the increase of the new plan. If it's by contract, then it's considered employee money. So if they leave, they get that money back and it may be pre-tax.

You can also do cost sharing through resolution.

We don't really see it at CalPERS. We just get the money and invest it. So we would consider it employer money if it's through resolution. But as far as I know, it cannot be pre-tax if you do it that way.
00:53:01.95 Barbara Ware We are at the very beginning stages of looking at some legislation to change this. I've been in one meeting for it, and I think there have been a few others.

The suggestion would be to not tie the cost sharing to an amendment, but there would, of course, be a ceiling as to how much the employee would pay. They wouldn't be allowed to pay for the whole thing. And it would also allow for different cost sharing amounts for different benefit formulas so that if you did do a tier two, the second tier could pay a different cost share than the first tier. I have no idea what's going to happen with this. Thank you. would do a tier two, the second tier could pay a different cost share than the first tier. I have no idea what's going to happen with this. It's really in the early stages. There's obviously a lot of interest on the employer side and not so much on the union
00:53:43.26 Herb Weiner Mm.
00:53:56.42 Barbara Ware you
00:53:56.96 Linda Pfeifer if I may.
00:53:58.14 Barbara Ware Thank you.
00:53:59.39 Linda Pfeifer So actually I was going to ask you, I know the federal government in 1984, when they had a defined benefit and they looked at their situation and they said, this is not sustainable, and so they created a hybrid.

where they have a defined benefit, but it's a modest defined benefit. So the employer does share some of the risk, but then they also have a thrift savings plan, you know, a 401k, so that the employee also shares 50-50 of the risk.

And so when I see would allow different cost sharing for different benefit formulas? Are they looking at a potential hybrid, you know, sort of scenario like the federal government used?
00:54:43.96 Barbara Ware At this point, I have not heard anything like that, that they are looking like that now.

Sorry. I'm not pissed as I'm sorry. That's fine. Okay. The lump sum payment for the side fund. John also talked about this. Listed what the side funds are or will be as of 630-11. I also am showing the rate that you pay toward, how much of your rate the side fund payment takes up. I said that backwards. So especially for the police, it's a very large portion of the total amount. And I've showed how many years are remaining of those payments. So
00:54:55.87 Herb Weiner Thank you.

That's right.
00:55:38.51 Barbara Ware at least 15.5% of the rate is because of the side fund. It'll be being paid for 13 more years. After that 13 years, that piece will drop off.

and full or partial lump sum payments can be made, and they can be made at any time. You just contact us. In fact, close by, Tiburon Fire District was sending in an extra $100,000, $150,000 each year. They just send in an extra check every once in a while. They just finished paying off their side fund this past year, so they were all excited about that. Good.
00:56:15.01 Mary Wagner Thank you.
00:56:15.03 Herb Weiner Mm-hmm.
00:56:15.32 Mary Wagner Thank you.
00:56:19.67 Herb Weiner Thank you.
00:56:21.04 Herb Weiner Thank you.

to dissent the money over the West. Go ahead.
00:56:25.14 Mike Kelly Just for clarity, the percentages you have in that lower bullet point are percentages of the total contribution to CalPERS from the city, not the rate implied in the cost of bearing that side fund, not an implied interest rate, right?
00:56:37.24 Barbara Ware Thank you.
00:56:41.88 Barbara Ware Right, that's the rate of the day. The interest rate is the seven and three quarters.
00:56:42.18 Mike Kelly Yes.

The interest rate is the seven and three quarters that is your required investment return. Right.
00:56:50.97 Barbara Ware Right. Right.

Yeah.

Okay, plan termination.

Um...

Plan termination can be done by a plan. That's actually new. It used to have to be done by the whole employer, but now it can be done by plan. But it cannot be done for a group within a plan.

you can't even exclude new hires at this point.

What we do when we do a plan termination is compare your liability, which we have to calculate expressly for this purpose, so we don't have that number anywhere available, plus a 7% contingency reserve, and we compare it to the market value of assets, because if you're terminating, then we're interested in the money that's there right now, so the market value becomes much more important.

Once it's done, though, if you do that, That's it. The city has no further obligation for the people that are in the plan. CalPERS takes over the plan, pays the benefits, takes all the risks for contingencies, which is why you pay the 7%. And you can't reinstate a plan after plan termination for five years.
00:58:16.85 Carolyn Ford You can't, what was that last one, please? If you terminate the plan, you can't reinstate it.
00:58:19.45 Barbara Ware If you terminate the plan, you can't reinstate it for five years.
00:58:24.63 Carolyn Ford Okay, I have a question that relates to this that I have actually for both of you, but it's What is the state law that governs defined contribution plans? And if the city of Sausalito was to leave, CalPERS. Could we have and maybe the second bullet goes to that, but could we have new employees in defined contribution? Plans during the time before we could we start a defined contribution plan for new employees while we're still in CalPERS?
00:59:07.75 Herb Weiner No.
00:59:08.41 Carolyn Ford No. So there's, although CalPERS does have defined contribution plans, I understand,
00:59:15.10 John Bartel Can you mind if I modify that answer a little bit? Okay. Because you must, so we're talking about legal issues and neither one of us are attorneys, so that's our caveat.
00:59:18.04 Carolyn Ford Okay.
00:59:18.99 Herb Weiner Thank you.
00:59:26.06 Mary Wagner Thank you.
00:59:28.86 John Bartel You have to remain in one of the CalPERS defined benefit options.

you could provide a second tier with a lower benefit and provide a DC supplement You cannot provide D.C. only.
00:59:49.83 Carolyn Ford I see. So we could set up, or we're restricted to what, to the programs that CalPERS offers, right?
00:59:57.55 John Bartel The menu of options that are in the public employee retirement law.
00:59:58.84 Carolyn Ford that are in the public employee retirement.

Okay, and then we could have one of those plus a defined contribution fund for employees. Thank you.
01:00:02.66 John Bartel I'm sorry.
01:00:09.81 Herb Weiner Thank you.
01:00:10.94 Carolyn Ford for new employees.
01:00:11.33 Herb Weiner for.

Thank you.

Thank you.
01:00:13.96 Barbara Ware Sorry.
01:00:14.52 Herb Weiner and
01:00:15.94 Barbara Ware I was thinking you were talking about only the fine company. So that was my advice.
01:00:18.67 Carolyn Ford Oh.

No, no problem.
01:00:23.06 Barbara Ware Okay, I happen to be the actuary for Pacific Grove as well.

Thank you.
01:00:30.45 Jonathan Leone Before you start, how big is Pacific Grove? I'm sorry? Relative to Sausalito, how big is Pacific Grove?
01:00:30.70 Barbara Ware before you start I'm sorry.

I should have those numbers. It's bigger. It's bigger? I don't really know exactly where's the number.
01:00:40.69 Jonathan Leone bigger.

Bye.
01:00:42.33 Herb Weiner Thank you.
01:00:42.35 Jonathan Leone OK.
01:00:44.12 Barbara Ware Oh.
01:00:47.56 Herb Weiner I don't think it's romantically different.
01:00:50.24 Barbara Ware No, I would, yeah.
01:00:50.26 Herb Weiner Thank you.

No.

It's maybe a little larger, but not a lot.
01:00:53.27 Barbara Ware Thank you.
01:00:53.28 Herb Weiner Thank you.
01:00:53.45 John Bartel Thank you.
01:00:54.68 Barbara Ware Anyway, for me personally, this isn't all of CalPERS. For me personally, I've only done one termination calculation, and that was for them. So I don't see these very often. I don't know if I'm going to be seeing more of them or not, but I haven't seen very many in the past. And they haven't terminated at this point.

Okay.

The calculations that I did showed that at a minimum they would owe about $10 million for their miscellaneous and about $18 million for their safety. That's to terminate the plan. That's how much it would cost them to terminate the plans.
01:01:33.02 Herb Weiner Thank you.

I'll get you in for a hint.
01:01:37.12 Barbara Ware And their numbers are different than what you would see for a couple of reasons. Those calculations were done before we changed assumptions. So that means the liability I'd calculate now would be higher, meaning more costs for you. Also, they have paid off their side funds. So that's not included in the cost. They have a cheaper miscellaneous plan. They have the 2 at 55, but they have a more expensive safety plan. They have the 3 at 50. But on the other side, market values have improved, and we do compare it to market values.
01:01:37.14 Herb Weiner and their number one.
01:02:20.16 Linda Pfeifer I have a quick question about the termination. One of the things that I'm most Thank you.

One of the things that I'm most interested in is, again, just getting a clear picture of where Sausalito stands and specifically what have we paid in in dollars, what are our assets, what is our unfunded liability, what is our funded ratio. And so is it My understanding is, tell me if this is right or not, that we have, if we wanted to get that information, We would have to vote on a resolution to terminate from CalPERS.

Just to get, not that we would terminate from CalPERS, but we would to get those numbers in real dollars. So, I think that's a good question.
01:03:17.09 John Bartel So do you mind if I interrupt? So this is really more a question. I think I know the answer, but I want to answer the question. So that's, I think, one way to do it, is to go ahead and sort of file to get the termination calculation.

The other way to do it, I think, would be to look at a contract amendment cost analysis, which would also show, so for example, if you went to CalPERS, I'd be surprised if you had the intention to do this, but if you went to CalPERS and said, for the miscellaneous We'd like to know what it would cost to go to 27 at 55.

Barbara would give you a contract amendment cost analysis. It would not involve the termination process. And in that information, you would see what your unfunded liability is, specifically for Sausalito under both 2.5 at 55 and 2.7 at 55.

So I think you don't see it. Am I right? Yes.
01:04:22.31 Herb Weiner Yes. OK. That's good.

Thank you.

Thank you.
01:04:25.97 Unknown I can't believe it.
01:04:29.99 Herb Weiner Thank you.
01:04:30.01 Barbara Ware What they is.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They're in a pool. We don't have separate numbers within the pool. We would actually have to calculate the numbers. And so if you ask for an amendment and ask for termination, you have to calculate it.
01:04:39.93 Herb Weiner All right.
01:04:48.66 Mike Kelly When was the last time, or is it a constant process or an annual process where CalPERS reexamines its retirement assumptions. Now if you look at public employment over the last 50 years, the tenure rates and the amount of people who both eventually retire and at tenure they retire.

has certainly changed.

Is that constantly updated on the two, what drives these assumptions as far as the future obligations in terms of the average tenure of retirement?
01:05:28.46 Barbara Ware Yeah, we are in fact required to do an experience study every four years. It's in law. So that's what we do when we look at what we've been assuming and what's actually happened. Actually, I think this last one was a five-year
01:05:35.09 Herb Weiner Thank you.
01:05:46.43 Mike Kelly Do you know when the last one was done?
01:05:46.45 Barbara Ware Do you know when the Thank you.

I think it was five.

Thank you.
01:05:54.59 Mike Kelly Tell me when the last time that the study of the assumptions underlying it. Because when you're in a pool, obviously you're going to have
01:06:04.19 John Bartel In the June 2009 valuation, it includes the most recent experience analysis. So there's an adjustment in your 11-12 rates for that experience analysis. So sort of adjusting the retirement rates down for 2.5 at 55 in particular.
01:06:24.37 Mike Kelly I don't mean just for sauce loot, I mean for the pool in general. Your actuarial assumptions for job types and tenure that go into the assumptions you're making.
01:06:33.99 Barbara Ware We do them all.
01:06:36.93 Mike Kelly Right, no, I understand that. So when was the last time that was? I mean, if you had to guess.
01:06:40.22 Barbara Ware Wow.

if you had to guess. The last assumption change that we built into the rates was for the 05-06 rates, so that actually...

It's a six year difference. When we change assumptions based on these experiments,
01:06:51.08 Herb Weiner Yes.
01:06:51.39 Mike Kelly Thank you.
01:06:52.45 Mary Wagner Yeah.
01:06:58.49 Mike Kelly Okay. So, you know, this is more, again, a policy question.
01:07:01.34 Herb Weiner for public.
01:07:01.82 Barbara Ware Thank you.
01:07:04.36 Mike Kelly I would put forward that the employment market has changed dramatically in the last decade.

And in terms of both, especially new employees, obviously,
01:07:13.49 Linda Pfeifer Uh.
01:07:14.42 Mike Kelly And even before that, when opportunities were sort of more greater on the private sector side, you saw a large exodus of folks out of the public sector side.

into the private sector, which is going to affect that as you move forward, So some of these That should be, you know, you're not, This isn't within your power to affect, but it should be something that CalPERS does on a much more frequent basis than four years, or in this case, six, because the changes in the marketplace, just like the changes in investor returns, over a long period of time, they will smooth themselves out.

Right. So since you're making assumptions for 30 years of somebody who just joined the, or 20 years who just joined the police force, if that employment assumption that they're going to, that Thank you.

nine out of ten versus four out of ten are actually going to hit that retirement for that class of of employment.

makes a big difference at the end of the day.

Thank you.
01:08:14.26 Barbara Ware It does make a big difference, I guess.

That's kind of the rub though, is that we're looking 30 years over long term.

to look at only one or two years. No, I agree. It's hard to know whether that's a bump for those one or two years or whether it's
01:08:28.42 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.
01:08:28.47 Mike Kelly Oh, I agree.
01:08:32.62 Barbara Ware Thank you.
01:08:32.67 Mike Kelly Well, but you can argue the same thing.
01:08:32.70 Barbara Ware Well, it's...

Thank you.
01:08:35.32 Herb Weiner Thank you.
01:08:35.40 Herb Weiner Thank you.
01:08:35.88 Mike Kelly on the other side of the ledger.

that the long-term rate of return has been relatively constant over since the Depression.

Right? And the risk, the market risk premium over the risk free range
01:08:43.99 Herb Weiner Thank you.

Thank you.
01:08:44.11 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.
01:08:44.13 Herb Weiner Thank you.
01:08:44.16 Linda Pfeifer Right?
01:08:49.11 Mike Kelly Over that time, 4% has been relatively constant. There's gyrations around that. And the same will be true of the employment market, whether public sector employment is attractive or whether it is not.

Um, So some of these, you can't have assumptions going like this on one side and not on the other because they're not going to match.

You know, and they're not your employment assumptions if you leave them static for once a decade.

you know, is not going to match the gyration of assumptions you're making of what I'm going to do with the money to fund those people's retirement.
01:09:21.19 Barbara Ware those people's retirements. Well, we haven't changed the investment return assumption for five or six years either, so.

Well, since the smoothing
01:09:27.24 Mike Kelly Well, since the smoothing formula was put in place, that changed a lot of things, right?
01:09:30.32 Barbara Ware that that's.
01:09:32.09 Linda Pfeifer Thanks.
01:09:33.05 Mike Kelly Thank you.
01:09:33.52 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.
01:09:33.61 Mike Kelly Yeah.
01:09:33.83 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.
01:09:34.35 Mike Kelly But even your market return, your portfolio assumption is still If you look at it today, it is accurate.
01:09:41.20 Linda Pfeifer It is.
01:09:42.28 Mike Kelly Thank you.
01:09:42.31 Linda Pfeifer Mm-hmm.
01:09:42.67 Mike Kelly based off long-term analysis because 4% over the Treasury rate is going to get you almost to 7. And so, you know, I don't know. So there's a little panic.

because we're having these formulas adjust the impact today, right, over the long term.
01:10:04.37 Barbara Ware Well, and I guess that's what the discussion would write, saving the policy. Right. The system will break.
01:10:07.85 Mike Kelly Right, the system will break in the short term with the changes that we're going to have to go through because of the smoothing out and the need for the planned domain solvent.

And same is true, but in the long term, if you have that wherewithal, which unfortunately the system doesn't, you would write the system would work it out.

But if the underlying employment assumption is that people contributing in and all those other things or don't match up.
01:10:34.63 Jonathan Leone And assuming you don't have a great depression or a complete financial meltdown, which robs you of your risk premium over your risk-free rate.
01:10:44.35 Mike Kelly This is true, but you're going to have a lot of other problems at that moment in time than just your pension obligations, right? So if it all goes to hell in a handbasket, it will all go to hell in a handbasket, regardless of your pension obligations.
01:10:57.29 Jonathan Leone Yeah, but one could make an argument that 7.75 annual return year after year after year is probably at least 3.75 over risk-free. At least if not four and a half or five, however you want to call the risk-free. You have to reach for that return.
01:11:10.30 Herb Weiner Yeah.
01:11:10.49 Mary Wagner Thank you.

Four and a half.
01:11:17.79 Mike Kelly At moments in time, right? In the 70s or 60s, that was a very respectable return until inflation spiked. And that was in the 60s. It was pretty static market returns. So if you look at the 70s, you had a lot of…
01:11:19.16 Jonathan Leone Right?
01:11:20.73 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.
01:11:25.52 Mary Wagner So.
01:11:25.56 Jonathan Leone Very good.
01:11:33.72 Jonathan Leone I'd like to tell you that my little pension fund I had with Dun & Bradstreet in 1972 when the market crashed, it went to zero.
01:11:42.48 Mike Kelly Yeah, I hear you, Mike, but the reality is the market premium return over the last 80 years is 4% over the risk-free rate.

On average. So...

you know.

Be that as it may, it doesn't alleviate the problems of
01:12:02.02 Jonathan Leone Okay.
01:12:02.39 Mike Kelly But it does sort of break down.
01:12:04.37 Jonathan Leone Well, but there's other factors here too. The declining population base, workforce, labor force, I mean all those play a key role in this and if the cities can't afford the services they're providing and start reducing the staff. I'm not arguing against that.
01:12:06.73 Mike Kelly Yeah.
01:12:23.00 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.
01:12:23.02 Mike Kelly I'm not arguing against the problem that there is a pension problem. It's more just discussing the assumptions that she's making. That the CalPERS uses is not your assumptions.
01:12:24.40 Linda Pfeifer They do.

that there is.
01:12:26.46 Jonathan Leone Yeah.
01:12:33.04 Herb Weiner Thank you.
01:12:33.06 Jonathan Leone Yeah.
01:12:33.93 Mike Kelly Thank you.
01:12:33.97 Jonathan Leone You're going to be blamed for all the problems. Are you arguing for nations' approach to it? John nations' approach to it?
01:12:34.47 Mike Kelly You're going to be blamed for all these problems.
01:12:40.87 Mike Kelly No, I think his assumptions aren't correct.
01:12:42.71 Jonathan Leone they go the opposite way.
01:12:44.16 Mike Kelly Thank you.

Well, you can't assume that everything in life has no risk.
01:12:44.29 Jonathan Leone Thank you.
01:12:48.14 Jonathan Leone Yes.
01:12:48.44 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.
01:12:48.58 Jonathan Leone Thank you.
01:12:48.68 Carolyn Ford I'm sorry.
01:12:48.77 Jonathan Leone Thank you.
01:12:48.82 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.
01:12:48.94 Jonathan Leone Thank you.
01:12:49.93 Carolyn Ford Mr. Mayor, I have one more question if I might.
01:12:53.59 Herb Weiner You may.
01:12:54.05 Carolyn Ford Is there any talk, have either, this is for both of you, our consultants, have either of you heard of any legislation to let Agencies have defined contribution.
01:13:08.19 Herb Weiner The following.

Yeah.
01:13:10.77 Carolyn Ford Thank you.

Funds. I mean, is there anything in the works that you have heard of? Because this is the only way I can see that...
01:13:18.74 Barbara Ware Please, you're not John Crowell and we're up on this.
01:13:20.96 Carolyn Ford Is he?
01:13:22.99 John Bartel Okay. So let me make sure I'm understanding the question. So that would allow an agency to move future employees into a defined contribution only? Yes. And keep current employees in CalPERS. Is that the question? So to the best, there may be legislation like that. I have not seen it. So I'm not aware of any. I'd probably – you ought to not look to me for an analysis of what the California legislature might do. I know. But I would suggest that the California legislature would – it's not likely that would get through the California legislature.
01:13:23.04 Carolyn Ford Okay.
01:13:23.97 Herb Weiner Absolutely.
01:13:36.15 Carolyn Ford Yes.
01:13:39.76 Carolyn Ford Yeah.
01:13:58.61 Mary Wagner I like to play your mic too. I know, but...
01:14:09.75 Carolyn Ford We'll be right back.

Yeah, I know they have their own interests. But could I ask this? If they do not consider the defined contributions, what is the lowest defined benefit program that we could go to with a...

defined contribution program. And could we move to this if we could convince our unions that this would be best for the way to sustain a retirement program?
01:14:52.16 Barbara Ware The way it is right now, and for your system, you could only put new employees into the second tier.

So I'm not sure that I'm going to get to that.
01:15:05.10 Carolyn Ford Okay, and that second tier would, what's the lowest, is it 60? 2% at 60.
01:15:05.12 Barbara Ware Okay.
01:15:11.07 Barbara Ware 2% at 60. Is the lowest. Now there is a lower formula, but you have to be part of Social Security.
01:15:13.81 Mike Kelly Oh, a snallery.
01:15:18.53 Carolyn Ford And can we elect to do that?
01:15:20.98 Mike Kelly and then you'd have to make FICA contributions. Sure. So it's up to you. Sure.
01:15:23.22 Carolyn Ford Sure, sure, you would. But can we elect to do that?
01:15:27.09 Mike Kelly Thank you.
01:15:28.35 Herb Weiner Yeah.
01:15:28.71 Carolyn Ford at this point.
01:15:28.79 John Bartel at this point. Male Speaker 1 So do you mind if I caveat that? Male Speaker 1 Sure. Male Speaker 1 If you did that, I would guess you would only want to do that for future employees. What I don't know, I think it's really a legal question, I believe you could have future employees participate in Social Security and then have the one and a half at 65 formula. It's really a legal question as to whether or not you can do that. So I don't think I... participate in Social Security and then have the 1.5 at 65 formula. It's really a legal question as to whether or not you can do that. So I don't think I know the answer to that for sure. I will also mention to you it is absolutely correct that 1.5 at 65 is in the To the best of my knowledge, and maybe Barbara can correct me if I'm wrong here, I'm not aware of a single agency in the state that has contracted for that formula.
01:16:15.20 Barbara Ware aware.
01:16:21.32 Jonathan Leone Thank you.
01:16:21.37 Barbara Ware Thank you.
01:16:21.39 Jonathan Leone Yeah.
01:16:21.63 Barbara Ware THE END OF THE END OF THE
01:16:21.69 Jonathan Leone Thank you.
01:16:21.88 Barbara Ware Nobody has, but there have been people who started to get the
01:16:26.22 Jonathan Leone Let's be clear here, though. We can only, if we could do even that or any of these things you're talking about, we can only do it on a second-tier basis without terminating our plan.

Correct?
01:16:36.53 Unknown Thank you.
01:16:36.85 Herb Weiner Thank you.
01:16:36.97 Unknown Thank you.
01:16:39.02 Jonathan Leone Well, let me answer that one. Or do you want to tag on to that?
01:16:41.59 Jeffrey Chase Thank you.
01:16:45.23 Jonathan Leone Okay, go ahead.
01:16:45.40 Jeffrey Chase Thank you.

Thank you.
01:16:46.06 Jonathan Leone Thank you.
01:16:48.20 Jeffrey Chase Thank you.

to that question.

Can a city of less than 100 employees go into a 1.5 and 65 plan that's not a full plan?
01:16:58.43 Herb Weiner Mm-hmm.
01:16:58.73 Barbara Ware The one and a half at 65 would actually become part of the two at 60 pool. And there's, in fact, I just got an email on this today. There would be a negative surcharge. So it would reduce the cost a little bit. And that's how that would be calculated. I did want to say that, and I'm not sure what the rules are for Social Security, so take this with a grain of salt. But with that formula, it's the only formula that you can apply to current employees for future service that they have to elect for.
01:16:59.88 Herb Weiner One of them.
01:17:13.05 Carolyn Ford Right.
01:17:38.76 Barbara Ware And employee contribution rate is only 2% for it.

Thank you.

you know, for whatever that's worth.
01:17:48.97 Carolyn Ford Yeah, sure, thank you.
01:17:49.02 Barbara Ware Thank you.
01:17:50.32 Herb Weiner Okay. All right. Thank you. At this time, Charlie, you have something to say?
01:17:56.18 Jeffrey Chase Just one follow up to one question. Pacific squirrels population is 15,500 and they have 130 employees. So it's twice the size.
01:18:04.67 Jonathan Leone But you can't extrapolate from that the $28 million that they would have to pay to terminate their fund. It doesn't really relate to ours. Ours are different actuarial study, right? It's very different.
01:18:13.02 Herb Weiner It's very different because they paid off their side funds.
01:18:16.19 Jonathan Leone Yeah, and other things, yeah. Okay.
01:18:17.22 Herb Weiner Thank you.

Thank you.
01:18:18.10 Jonathan Leone Thank you.

Thank you.
01:18:18.40 Herb Weiner Thank you.

Okay, thank you, John.
01:18:20.09 Jonathan Leone Meaning ours would be higher. I don't know.
01:18:23.67 Herb Weiner Go ahead, Charlie.
01:18:25.20 Jeffrey Chase Well, I was just going to say that concludes the presentation. There's no council action that's being requested tonight. Hopefully we answered all your questions, and certainly in the weeks to come, follow-up questions we will take, and I'll forward them on to our experts if I can't answer them myself.
01:18:42.60 Herb Weiner Okay, at this time here, any public comment on this? John?
01:18:43.18 Jeffrey Chase this time.

Yeah.
01:18:54.01 John Flavin My name is John Flavin. I'm a resident of Sausalito. I just want to put this in perspective. Thirty years ago, I was involved in the pension programs for private companies. And we're 30 years ahead of you guys or behind, whichever way you look at it. But what happened at that point was a number of large public companies got caught with their hands in the till. They were using the pension plans to offset their income and boost their earnings and all this sort of stuff. And they were also using very aggressive discount rates in order to determine their pension obligation
01:19:09.67 Mary Wagner but
01:19:29.90 John Flavin So what happened at that point was they got caught. There were regulators that got involved. As a result of those regulators, there became accounting rules for how it would be treated, what the discount rates, or at least the parameters for discount rates. And as a result of that, it became very expensive for companies to run defined benefit programs. As a result, you saw the migration from defined benefit programs to defined contribution ones.

Now you have California, which is apparently under investigation by the SEC for playing games with the pension funds. CalPERS has come out and fired a number of their placement managers and there was a big issue about that and why they did that. Obviously there's some turbulence in the water with respect to how they treat, California's treated these funds.

I can only anticipate, and I know already there's legislation at the federal level to talk about regulating these pension funds a little more tightly, getting more standards reported. It's beginning to be the parallel to the private sector.

And what you're going to see is a spread where you're not going to be able to claim 7.5%. And it's not, I mean, I take your point. I mean, that's an investment yield, but that is an investment yield with risk. And you may poo-poo what Joe Nations did at Stanford, but there is some logic on the basis that you can't predict the future. So you should be doing some element of probability. Seven and a half to me is a best case scenario. When I was doing investment management work, I always tried to under-promise and over-perform. What this is doing, my estimation, is over-promising and clearly over the last six to ten years they've been underperforming. You are going to face a crisis here. It's going to be bigger than I think you're at, at least my impression is, than you're currently envisioning it to be. And take a page from history and don't repeat what the private sector did, because it became a true crisis and they were running behind the game instead of in front of it. You have a chance to be a little bit in front of it.
01:20:58.01 Mary Wagner Yeah.
01:21:50.52 Unknown Thank you.
01:21:50.60 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.
01:21:50.62 Unknown Thank you.
01:21:50.66 Linda Pfeifer STANDING.
01:21:50.98 Unknown Yes.
01:21:52.19 Herb Weiner Okay.

Any suggestions? Thank you, thank you John. Any other comments from the public?
01:21:55.28 Linda Pfeifer Uh...
01:21:55.65 Mary Wagner Thank you.
01:22:00.81 Herb Weiner I am.
01:22:02.52 Mike Kelly That's Christian here, Charlie.
01:22:04.16 Herb Weiner Charlie.

And we're going to wrap this up in a couple minutes, please.
01:22:09.79 Mike Kelly Charlie in for the 11-12 or 10-11, 11-12.

because we haven't done the budget for 12, 13 yet.

the increased assumptions that CalPERS has put out. Are we, have we allocated funds to cover those increased costs in our budget for the next two years?
01:22:29.18 Jeffrey Chase Yes, when we got the 2009 actuary report, they had what the rates for 2011-12 were going to be. I compared them to what we budgeted, and the difference was about $24,000 over what we budgeted. So our two-year budget anticipates being able to cover those increased costs. I think staff and management has always positioned to the city council that we're in the middle of implementing our medium-to-long-term fiscal strategies to position ourselves to address the increases that John and Barbara were talking about tonight for years 2012-13 and beyond.
01:22:51.96 Jonathan Leone THE END OF
01:23:15.93 Mike Kelly Thank you.
01:23:15.94 Jeffrey Chase Thank you.
01:23:15.96 Mike Kelly All right.
01:23:16.47 Jeffrey Chase you
01:23:16.67 Mike Kelly And for the...
01:23:18.03 Herb Weiner Thank you.
01:23:18.07 Mike Kelly Thank you.
01:23:18.73 Jeffrey Chase Thank you.
01:23:18.78 Mike Kelly THE ABSENCE.

State legislation changes.

about the obligations going backwards in time that we've already approved.

because you're handcuffed in my read of it by the current set of legislations that were put in over decades about
01:23:31.55 Mary Wagner HAND.
01:23:37.95 Mike Kelly employee benefits, retirement and those benefits.

What, and given the work that Mr. Bartell has done,
01:23:47.65 Mary Wagner It has defeated us.
01:23:48.06 Herb Weiner Yeah.
01:23:48.19 Mary Wagner Thank you.
01:23:49.68 Mike Kelly for us previously What are the two biggest drivers of both obligation and cost savings that actually weren't discussed here at all?

because there were not necessarily pension driven things.

And my memory of those were how much you pay people, and how many people you have.
01:24:06.38 Herb Weiner Thank you.
01:24:07.87 Mike Kelly Right. So that drive all those assumptions.

and Um, You can argue about what the future rate of return of all asset classes, not just the stock market, will be versus say back in 60s, 70s, it was single, maybe two asset classes that went into all these assumptions of stocks and bonds versus the plethora of other investments international investments, whatever that you have the option. You can take a very negative point of view of the future and say the world will never grow at a rate that is more than today.

Um, But Given that, And we're all equally clairvoyant as to what that possibility may be.

Um, the two The most prevalent things we can do in the side fund, unfortunately, is unless you're willing to use your own cash as of today, which gives you a foregone opportunity of using that for something else.

uh, is basically how many people you have how much you pay them, and what obligations you offer to in the future.

I mean, other than that, you're going to have state-driven legislative changes that that are going to drive this bus.
01:25:26.72 Jeffrey Chase I agree. The City Council, I believe, in looking backwards at decisions to 2003, has been pension reform minded with what they had control over. We moved two of the three employee classes to away from employer paid member contributions. We've held the line on how much we paid people and how many people that we employ in our city. We haven't capitulated to giving employees more benefits than what we thought was a reasonable pension for our employees to get. So from 2003 to 2010, the City Council did what was in their power to do, and at the same time they've advocated for change at the regional and the statewide basis by participating in the Marin County mayors and city council forums and the city manager forums and other opportunities where we can advocate for change at the state level. So I think the city council has done an excellent job in managing the pension reform with what they could do.
01:26:30.71 Mike Kelly Thank you.
01:26:30.73 Linda Pfeifer So,
01:26:31.03 Mike Kelly and still,
01:26:31.96 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.
01:26:32.03 Mike Kelly Thank you.
01:26:32.98 Linda Pfeifer Okay, that's fine.
01:26:33.09 Jeffrey Chase Thank you.
01:26:33.13 Mike Kelly Thank you.

That's fine.

you
01:26:34.27 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.
01:26:34.29 Mike Kelly That's okay.
01:26:34.83 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.
01:26:34.98 Mike Kelly Thank you.
01:26:35.07 Herb Weiner Yes, it is.
01:26:35.62 Mike Kelly So outside of Can't go backwards.
01:26:38.29 Herb Weiner ZO.
01:26:39.07 Mike Kelly can't implement in all reality for existing employees, and certainly not backwards, a defined contribution plan.

in the bargaining going forward, whether it's tomorrow or a year and a half from now, The only thing I've heard tonight is that it is possible of decreasing the cost to the city for current employees is changes of employee cost sharing of employer contributions, and that's been a bargain thing.

Thank you.
01:27:11.11 Linda Pfeifer Right.
01:27:11.53 Mike Kelly And that would be, in a sense, uh You have to also look at the cost of living. And if I take out of one hand your ability to live in an expensive area of the country, how are you going to because of the obligation that has been incurred.

It's, uh, It's a tough one.
01:27:29.93 Unknown Yes.
01:27:30.27 Mike Kelly to say the least. There's no silver bullet here.
01:27:30.33 Unknown Thank you.

Thank you.
01:27:33.59 Mike Kelly Unless you get, what is the answer, Charlie?

Thank you.
01:27:35.89 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.
01:27:35.95 Mike Kelly Thank you.
01:27:36.05 Linda Pfeifer .
01:27:36.24 Mike Kelly Thank you.
01:27:36.27 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.
01:27:36.29 Mike Kelly So.

No, it's a tough one.

Thanks.
01:27:41.08 Linda Pfeifer Mr. Mayor, I have questions.
01:27:42.72 Mike Kelly Wait, wait.
01:27:43.29 Linda Pfeifer Charlie, so you just said that you felt comfortable that we could meet our contribution
01:27:43.36 Herb Weiner Thank you.
01:27:49.42 Linda Pfeifer Um, contribution rates for 2012 and beyond.

Thank you.
01:27:56.62 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.
01:27:56.66 Jeffrey Chase He didn't say that. He didn't say beyond. He said beyond. Within the next two.
01:27:56.71 Linda Pfeifer Yeah.
01:27:56.98 Herb Weiner He didn't say that. Didn't say the arm.

within the next two years.
01:28:01.31 Linda Pfeifer I'm sorry.
01:28:01.57 Herb Weiner I'm sorry.
01:28:01.77 Jeffrey Chase Can I elaborate on that? Please. So we have a current budget that goes through June 30, 2011, and a proposed budget that goes through June 30, 2012.
01:28:01.92 Herb Weiner Thank you.
01:28:01.94 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.
01:28:01.97 Herb Weiner Thank you.
01:28:02.07 Linda Pfeifer Yeah.
01:28:02.24 Herb Weiner THE END OF
01:28:02.33 Linda Pfeifer Did you elaborate on that?
01:28:13.60 Jeffrey Chase Notwithstanding if there's any kind of shock or any kind of change in the assumptions, we should be able to get through the year 2012 with being able to provide our citizens the current level of service that we're providing them today. We're preparing ourselves to meet the challenges of budget year 2012-13 and beyond because we knew that the cost increases that John was going to run his calculator through and I've provided to the City Council before those increased amounts that are going to occur in 2012-13, 2013-14. They're going to be substantial increases in PERS cost and some of those things that we've been doing is restructuring the way we deliver service, for example, fire consolidation, and other things that we've been doing to control costs, increase revenues, and meet the challenges of the future. But we have to do those in order to get there.
01:29:08.24 Linda Pfeifer So because... But we have to do those in order to...

Thank you.

Here's my question because in light of what I'm seeing, in this report.

where we've got our contribution rate for miscellaneous employees going from 12.4 to 18.5 and given the current economic environment, I could see you know, with QE2 and the recession, you know, the projections are not sounding good, and then I look at the the police contribution rate and in a, you know, the worst case scenario, we're looking at going from 34 to 44.

you know, point two.

That's really...
01:29:50.51 Carolyn Ford you Thank you.
01:29:51.24 Linda Pfeifer That's a lot.
01:29:51.97 Carolyn Ford Councilmember Pfeiffer, if I may, and Mayor, Mr. Bartell was going to do some figures for me, and I think he's dying to tell us what those are, and that will answer your question.
01:29:55.10 Herb Weiner Okay.
01:30:06.66 Herb Weiner Yeah.
01:30:07.19 John Bartel Thank you.
01:30:09.99 Herb Weiner Thank you.
01:30:10.00 Unknown you
01:30:10.06 Carolyn Ford Thank you.
01:30:10.09 John Bartel Thank you.
01:30:10.16 Unknown Okay.
01:30:11.34 John Bartel So in the interest of full disclosure, right?
01:30:15.84 Herb Weiner Yeah.
01:30:16.97 John Bartel I did these calculations. They have not been checked. Okay. So, I, if you... We're not going to hold you to it.
01:30:17.82 Mary Wagner .
01:30:18.15 Herb Weiner .
01:30:18.19 Mary Wagner I did.
01:30:23.91 Herb Weiner We're not going to hold you to it.
01:30:25.39 John Bartel Thank you.

Okay, well, what I was going to do was give you a modified offer, if I may. I have them.
01:30:27.40 Herb Weiner I'm not.
01:30:27.59 Herb Weiner THE END OF THE END OF THE
01:30:27.67 Herb Weiner Thank you.
01:30:32.43 John Bartel I can certainly tell you I would prefer to go back to my office and have somebody check them, and then we'll email them off to Charlie. The primary reason for that is... That makes sense. If you all are okay, I'd really rather do that. I'll call you tonight.
01:30:41.49 Mary Wagner you
01:30:41.54 Herb Weiner to Charlie.
01:30:44.28 Mary Wagner Thank you.
01:30:44.29 Herb Weiner That makes sense. Okay. If you all are okay, I'd really rather do that. Okay. I'll call you tonight.
01:30:49.63 Herb Weiner Thank you.
01:30:49.76 John Bartel My folks might
01:30:49.93 Herb Weiner Bye.
01:30:49.95 Herb Weiner Thank you.
01:30:49.96 Herb Weiner you
01:30:50.03 Herb Weiner Yeah.
01:30:50.39 Herb Weiner My phone number.
01:30:51.48 Herb Weiner you
01:30:51.69 Herb Weiner Thank you.
01:30:51.70 Herb Weiner might not be.
01:30:51.97 Herb Weiner not be in the office. Well, and thank you very much. Thank you.
01:30:52.43 Jeffrey Chase you
01:30:52.66 Herb Weiner Yes.
01:30:52.97 Jeffrey Chase well
01:30:54.59 Herb Weiner Thank you.
01:30:54.74 Jeffrey Chase Thank you.
01:30:54.86 Herb Weiner Thank you.
01:30:55.01 Jeffrey Chase Thank you.

I just wanted to add, some of the other medium to long term strategies that we've been looking at to meet these challenges not only include fire consolidation, but they also include the restructuring of MLK, which as we take that debt and move it back to the general fund, then gives us a pool of money to be able to consider using cash to pay off the side fund, using investment returns to help offset revenues. The city has a number of strategies to meet those challenges in 2012-13, but we have to achieve that. off the side fund using investment returns to help offset revenues. The city has a number of strategies to meet those challenges of 2012-13, but we have to achieve that.
01:30:57.61 Herb Weiner Thank you.
01:31:27.76 Jeffrey Chase All right.
01:31:28.02 Herb Weiner Thank you.
01:31:28.09 Jeffrey Chase Thank you.
01:31:28.14 Herb Weiner I'm going to finish it up.
01:31:29.74 Jonathan Leone I want to say something. Let me be quiet.
01:31:32.86 Herb Weiner Okay, that's...
01:31:33.47 Jonathan Leone Actuarials spend all their time guessing at the future by analyzing the past. Thank you very much for doing that. So exactly what you're looking at when you look at the CalPERS Fund. There's a lot of things in the CalPERS Fund that we could talk about all night long. First of all, Sausalito is not in any danger of going bankrupt in any scenario that I can possibly imagine in my lifetime.

assuming that we continue on a sound fiscal policy basis as we have. We may have to make changes, move things around, tighten things up, and so on, but we're not in danger of bankruptcy.
01:32:08.94 Mike Kelly Yes.
01:32:13.88 Mike Kelly They're tight already. We just have to make different choices. Choices, right.
01:32:16.92 Jonathan Leone Right.

Thank you.
01:32:17.98 Mike Kelly Thank you.
01:32:18.00 Jonathan Leone There are more losses coming from CalPERS. I don't know how big they're going to be, but I just learned of one this week where they ordered one of their big fund guys who has a couple hundred million bucks sitting out there to liquidate everything. So how many more of those they have, I don't know. Their whole portfolio, I'm in the real estate side of the world, so they have about 7% of their assets in real estate. If you call a $200 million fund, that's $14 billion in real estate. They lost from $230 million down to $184 million or something like that, so they had a huge drop. And a lot of that money, frankly, from my perspective in real estate was squandered. However, the courts hold the rights of our employees to their pension fund as inalienable and un-extinguishable.

So we owe it as taxpayers.

Can we find different ways? We're going to need state and federal legislation to help us out because cities can't do it on their own. There's a lot of, I see a lot of things in CalPERS that I could start arguing need to be bent and pushed and shoved in different directions. We should be able to put employees in any kind of, a range of pools. However, every time you move somebody around, you affect the actuarial, you change the relationship of the actuarial fund, Now you've got to fill out the unfunded liability, so that's a problem.

So that's got to be worked on.

The idea that you can only get them to tell you how much your unfunded liability is by ordering either a termination or contract amendment cost analysis is absurd. You should be able to call up and have that done even if they charge you a small fee to So that's part of the bureaucracy which needs to be broken apart.

The way I think we're going to, I'm on the mayor's council, mayor's and council members' council committee that's working on pensions with Larry Chu at the head of it. If you read the paper, you'll see it in the paper referred to once in a while. We're starting to dig in. There's another whole area we even talked about tonight, and that's the other post-benefits that we need to look at and figure out how we're paying those and what the problems with those are going to be.

So I think that you've got a council that's going to pay attention.

We're going to stay on top of it. We're going to be involved.

And stay tuned. We'll try to find every possible solution we can to make this better for us And hopefully we'll get some help from our state and federal legislators along the way.

But there are no single answer solutions to this problem. It's going to be a bunch of tiny things done in some way that's going to get a big result.
01:34:44.12 Herb Weiner Okay.

Last 30 seconds.
01:34:46.92 Mike Kelly Thank you for the information and certainly the report. I think the next step is to form a continual plan to operate on and action plan, whether you can act on it or not, given the constraints of legal some of the state laws.

but to just so we continuously check on our options. So maybe that's the next step falling out of this based on both what we've known before, what we know today,
01:35:07.78 Mary Wagner We have it.

that's it.
01:35:15.71 Mike Kelly just so the public knows that here's our plan, including the political side of things. And here's what we're doing and, you know, as part of the We can discuss this at the next...
01:35:30.63 Herb Weiner That's right.
01:35:30.86 Mike Kelly priority setting, which already is one of our top priorities anyway, that it becomes one of our goals to execute on that plan within our ability.
01:35:32.55 Herb Weiner I said it.
01:35:39.98 Herb Weiner Okay. I'm going to let you finish it up.
01:35:40.82 Carolyn Ford Yes.

Okay, thank you, Mr. Mayor. I would just like to say that we've heard a lot here tonight and that I would like the opportunity to think about all the information that we've gotten and request more information. And I'd like to see this brought back before us in another couple weeks or a month and talk about what options we'd like to see pursued in the
01:35:43.56 Herb Weiner Thank you.
01:36:13.02 Carolyn Ford And what, as a town, as a city, what council, what options we'd like to have are either our actuarial consultant or with CalPERS or our actuarial consultant, Mr. Bartell, pursue? Because I see several different ways to go here.

Thank you.
01:36:34.08 Herb Weiner Okay. Thank you. Thank you.
01:36:34.60 Carolyn Ford Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Mayor, if I may make a comment.
01:36:35.60 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.

Thank you.
01:36:36.51 Herb Weiner It's honey.
01:36:37.23 Linda Pfeifer you Thank you.

you
01:36:37.72 Carolyn Ford Thank you.
01:36:37.76 Linda Pfeifer Um,
01:36:38.25 Herb Weiner Thank you.

You're pushing me now.
01:36:42.18 Linda Pfeifer What struck me in going through this is this three-inch chapter on pension benefits and liabilities and funded ratios and such is that
01:36:45.40 Herb Weiner Just a question.
01:36:55.76 Linda Pfeifer You know, if there was ever a reason for community outreach and educating our residents about what the city is facing, I think this is a topic that warrants that. I think that we are facing a serious challenge. I think that...

You know, if we're looking at restructuring options and things like this, I think It makes sense to have a community workshop to let people know what's going on. What is this pension?

You know, liability, what is this?
01:37:29.33 Herb Weiner I believe.
01:37:30.91 Linda Pfeifer you
01:37:30.97 Herb Weiner Okay.
01:37:31.28 Linda Pfeifer And so anyway, that would be my recommendation.
01:37:31.35 Herb Weiner Thank you.
01:37:33.44 Herb Weiner Right, well.

Thank you.

Thank you.

but all the cities especially here in Marin and throughout the whole state, we're all in the same boat.

And I think they finally have woke up to the fact that they've got to start doing something. So hopefully our legislators will work with them and see if, we can work on our options.

But I'm going to close this on this item. We are going to take a break around 9 o'clock, so I'd like to move on to the next item. And thank you.

John, Mary, Charlie, thank you very much.

Okay, next item, we have the update on the VA project, and that will be with Heidi Burns.
01:38:17.76 Unknown Good evening, Mayor Weiner, members of the City Council. We'll just wait for Debbie to pull up my presentation, and then I'll begin, and hopefully it'll be within the 15-minute time allowance. Okay.
01:38:18.32 Herb Weiner Bingo.
01:38:27.04 Herb Weiner If you go over it, I want to say name, around it. Okay, perfect.
01:38:32.66 Unknown So the title for this agenda item is a status report on the proposed Veteran Administration's project for the machine shop building located at 25 Liberty Shipway within Sausalito.

However, this was really more of a status update on staff's actions today regarding the Veteran Administration's project that they unveiled to the City Council on October 5th of 2010.

To orient the members of the audience that aren't familiar with the machine shop and where it's located, as well as those people on our web, The machine shop is located within the city's internship overlay district.

You can access the site via Bridgeway onto Marin Shipway, and then you turn on Liberty Shipway.

The surrounding land uses would be the Bay Model Visitor Center, which is located to the north of the machine shop.

We also have a building known as 10 Liberty Ship to the South. That's where the Chamber of Commerce is located.

And it's surrounded by the waterfront, and the various land uses would be Clipper Yacht Harbors, Basin 1, and the Schoonmacher Marina. We also have the CK Dock, which is located directly east of the project site.

So we last left off on November 23rd of last year. At that time, staff provided another status update, and included in the staff report was a recommendation by the Historic Landmarks Board to pursue a bunch of actions. The City Council upheld those Historic Landmarks Board actions and directed staff to contact various agencies that would be associated with the Veterans Administration's Section 106 permit process. That is a process that's established by the National Historic Preservation Act. The City Council also, you know, asked to allocate funds regarding the preparation of specific technical studies. One would be a historic context statement. The other one would be an inventory of the MarinShip, and that would be an inventory of existing buildings, objects, and structures related to the MarinShip Corporation's World War II shipyard.

as well as the preparation of a historic resource evaluation report for the machine shop. And also direct, the City Council also directed staff to solicit a request for proposals for those and marineship inventories.

So today, staff and Mayor Weiner prepared a letter to the Advisory Council on Historic Preservation, also to the California State Office of Historic Preservation. A letter was written to the National Trust for Historic Preservation, as well as the VA Federal Preservation Officer. That letter essentially asked that the National Trust these agencies ensure that the VA follow the Section 106 process.

And the successes regarding this letter campaign is that the city received two responses.

one would be from the director of the National Trust for Historic Preservation basically agreeing with the city saying yes, the VA should follow this section 106 process and that they are ensuring that they're gonna work with the city that the VA actually undergo this process. The city staff has also received telephone communication with the Advisory Council on Historic Preservation for their VA liaison. And for those of you that don't know who the Advisory Council for Historic Preservation is, it's a federal agency who's charged with promoting the preservation enhancement and productive use of the nation's historic resources. This is a federal agency that works closely with other federal agencies to make sure that if there is a historic resource out there, that they actually utilize those resources first and foremost before that resource is demolished.
01:41:47.57 Mary Wagner I don't know.
01:42:14.55 Unknown The second item that staff has been working with is regarding the Historic Landmarks Board initiation of the nomination of the machine shop for the city's local register.

So in our zoning ordinance, we have a process that essentially allows anybody to recommend that if you have a building that meets a certain threshold, it could be eligible for a local register. And a subcommittee of the Historic Landmarks Board has been created, and they are currently in the process of doing the initial background research. Once they have the requisite items to complete the application, then the Historic Landmarks Board will hold public hearings.

solicit public input and provide a recommendation to the Planning Commission. The Planning Commission would then hold separate public hearings and provide a recommendation to the City Council, and the City Council would ultimately adopt a resolution as to whether the building should be identified or listed on our local register.

Another update is that staff has solicited a request for proposal for those action items that the City Council directed us to do back in November.

We solicited proposals to eight local firms and the response was actually great. We received five proposals from very qualified firms within the Bay Area. The range of proposals, you know, was from 25,000 to 41,000. Staff is currently in the process of reviewing those proposals and within the next couple of weeks we'll most likely return back to the City Council with a recommendation on one of the proposals. But in terms of different firms that submitted proposals, we have Caring Company, we have Page and Turnbull, we have Architectural Resources Group, we have a joint coordination between Joanna Street, who is an architectural historian in association with Interactive Resources in Point Richmond, and then we have Knappen Verplank.
01:43:38.30 Mary Wagner proposals.
01:44:11.05 Unknown So this was actually a very great turnout. We were very pleased.

Another item that was identified in the staff report is last Wednesday, January 19th, Vice Mayor Kelly, as well as members of staff, met with representatives from Lin-Wolsey's office. We had Wendy Freefield, who's the district director, and Jennifer Dawes, who's a program case manager.

and we discussed the city's concerns in terms of the machine shop and wanting the VA to pursue the requisite Section 106 process, the city emphasized at this meeting that we really did want to seat at the table and we really did want to ensure that the process is being followed. So we concluded with staff preparing an outline of the Section 106 process for the representatives.

they feel comfortable with the information that staff has provided, then they will be contacting the Veterans Administration and asking them to see where they are in their Section 106 process and again ask that they follow the process.

Some other items, that didn't make this presentation is, this is a little extra item, is that every year the National Trust for Historic Preservation has an America's 11 most endangered buildings or places list And staff found out about this in mid-December, and we quickly scrambled together and put in an application for the machine shop. So we submitted that last Friday. It's a very competitive process. Out of last year's 222 building applications or nominations that were submitted, only 11 buildings make that list. So it's kind of, Sausalito's putting their limb out there, but we'll find out in May whether or not we made that list. And what's really great about this nomination is that if we are chosen, the primary tool for this is to bring awareness to not only Sausalito, but its history, and it gets nationwide and international recognition. So that's very exciting. In terms of some next steps, We are still going to pursue contacting legislators, Mark Leno, Jared Huffman, and Dianne Feinstein, and try to set up the same meetings that we've had with Lynn Woolsey as well as Barbara Boxer's representatives. We're also still moving forward with, you know, our nomination process and moving forward with completing the historic background as well.

Let's see. Oh, and the most important item is that staff has actually solidified a meeting date with representatives of the VA. That meeting will occur on February 23rd of this year.

And before I conclude, going back to that National Trust nomination, I'd really like to thank the Saucyde Historical Society for providing a letter of support. They did a really great job with that. And I'd also like to thank the Saucyde Environmental Action for preparing their community.

petition, we included that in our submittal.

And we also had a docent that works with the Army Corps of Engineers write a letter of support.

Great, great. So again, this is a-
01:47:19.33 Herb Weiner THE END OF
01:47:19.36 Mary Wagner This is a...
01:47:20.85 Unknown and non-action items. Staff is just providing this information, but I'm available to answer any questions you may have.
01:47:29.99 Mike Kelly Does anybody have any questions? I have a question.
01:47:32.22 Unknown Thank you.
01:47:32.32 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.
01:47:33.69 Mike Kelly .

Agencies that you can step lightly on this one if you want to.

the agencies that the VA is compelled to have contacted at some point in the process and we'll leave it open whether they've met those right times to have contacted them. How many were aware of this project?

until you got letters from Thank you.
01:47:57.04 Unknown No, none of the agencies were aware of it. In fact, I can add a little side note. When I contacted the Advisory Council on Historic Preservation, the VA liaison automatically contacted the Veterans Administration and apparently the Washington, D.C. arm of the VA was unaware of the San Francisco arm of the VA's project. Right. Which is your tax dollars.
01:47:58.34 Mike Kelly Right.
01:48:15.79 Herb Weiner Thank you.
01:48:15.81 Mike Kelly I'm a little bit nervous.

Right. Typical. Which is your tax dollars at work right there.

I have been trying to find this just poking around, but I haven't found it on the internet.

I think there is an opportunity also to work to contact the Navy itself, because they do have a historic and... Might as well bring in the Marines. As well as... As well as the... I forget the name of the organization, but you and I have talked about it before, the folks who have done the network of Bay Area historic naval sites and try to get ourselves included in that network, whereas Moran was left out of that network when it was first established. Have you already done that?
01:48:43.20 Linda Pfeifer as well as
01:48:43.57 Herb Weiner Absolutely.

Thank you.

.

Thank you.
01:48:45.07 Herb Weiner Thank you.

Yeah.
01:48:56.21 Mary Wagner Amen.
01:49:05.02 Unknown No, I'm not blaming you, but I'm just saying.
01:49:05.54 Mike Kelly No, I'm not blaming you, but I'm just saying. You had to look like you already did that. So I was going to give you a phase for doing that.
01:49:09.20 Unknown So I was going to give you a face. We're doing it. MS.

A lot of people regarding this, so the Department of the Interior put together a thematic study on World War II, and they did a focus study on the San Francisco Bay Area shipyards. Sausalito was essentially glossed over. Of course, they mentioned Bechtel and there's a marine ship, in one place, but it doesn't really say anything. I was speaking with Rick Borges, who is the preservation officer for the National Park Service over at the Point Richmond, the Riveter site, and when I was describing our Marineship, he said, wow, you know, it's unfortunate that this was an oversight, but the city definitely has a lot of opportunities based on the studies that we are preparing for some type of advocacy to have that document amended.
01:49:54.36 Mike Kelly Right, and that's where Woolsey, Feinstein, and Boxer can help us a great deal. And there's probably some funds that might go along with being included in that, getting that, being included in that list of Bay Area World War II sites.
01:49:58.02 Unknown I agree.
01:50:08.97 Mike Kelly Texas.
01:50:09.55 Herb Weiner Thank you.
01:50:09.60 Herb Weiner Okay.
01:50:09.85 Herb Weiner Thank you.
01:50:10.49 Herb Weiner Oh, my gosh.
01:50:12.47 Herb Weiner Heidi, thank you very, very much. Excellent. And thank you, Vicki, on the HLB for working on this. And John. And Flavin.
01:50:13.18 Herb Weiner Thank you.
01:50:21.98 Carolyn Ford And Kate. Flavin. Kate the Flavin. So thank you.
01:50:25.04 Mike Kelly Uh...
01:50:25.71 Herb Weiner Yeah.
01:50:25.97 Mike Kelly Thank you.
01:50:25.98 Herb Weiner So thank you very much. Go ahead, Lance.

Thank you.
01:50:30.08 Mike Kelly Thank you, Heidi.

Is there, in terms of the next steps, besides the meeting in February, which we couldn't get any word back from the VA since they last were here, am I just replying to you, so that's just progress. What are the other next steps besides the local register, Feinstein, and the meeting in February that we're going to...
01:50:53.81 Herb Weiner February 23rd.
01:50:54.94 Mike Kelly Yeah.
01:50:55.09 Unknown Those are basically our only steps that we can do to date until such time as the VA actually submits their Section 106 permit process. We're kind of in limbo. However, other items that are somewhat related but different would be the city concluding its application to the State Historic Preservation Office for the certified local government status. I heard that once the city is a CLG, we'll actually have higher standing for the Section 106 process. Just a little side note for that, we're working very closely with the Historic Landmarks Board to finalize that application. In fact, it's actually agendized for tomorrow to provide comments on a draft application. And we're hoping to bring that to the city council within the next month.
01:51:18.26 Mary Wagner Right.
01:51:18.33 Barbara Ware Right.
01:51:18.40 Mary Wagner Thank you.
01:51:36.37 Mike Kelly Right, as far as anything to do with the state, agencies that are beyond sort of getting some good word put in through Huffman or Leno. Is there anything else we can provide them to get?

there the hair on the back of their neck more up in the air.
01:51:56.13 Unknown We can basically package the information that we've already provided Senator Boxer's office as well as Lynn Woolsey's office and try to establish these meetings, at least get some type of face-to-face with the representatives and let them know that this is important. So we are still working on scheduling those meetings. They just haven't occurred yet. So those are other action items. But really the critical path is the VA submitting their Section 106 application.
01:52:03.91 Mike Kelly All right.
01:52:17.26 Mary Wagner Thank you.
01:52:23.05 Jonathan Leone Yeah, there are two things that concern me. One is the whole point of this is to get the VA to fill out the application, put it in the right hands, and then the process will take care of itself. But there's a secondary issue here. They went out there and they ripped all the roof material off, and the place is suffering in the storm. So I think what we should consider doing is writing some letters and putting them on notice and then CC'ing our new universe to let them know that they've got to come out there and do whatever is necessary to preserve the asset since they have disturbed its integrity. So I think we'll work on both of those issues. We're going to be like a dog on their leg that they don't, can never get rid of.
01:53:00.68 Mary Wagner disturbing.
01:53:10.73 Herb Weiner Thank you.

I have another term for that, but I won't use it.
01:53:11.48 Jonathan Leone I don't know.

another term for that but I won't use it.
01:53:14.65 Herb Weiner I don't know.

Well, let the dogs lie as they may. Okay. Thank you very much. I just think I think I have a record. Sorry. That's all right. We're going to finish up.
01:53:17.03 Herb Weiner Well, I'll...
01:53:18.55 Jonathan Leone Thank you.
01:53:24.71 Mike Kelly Can I just take that thing for the record? Sorry. That's all right. We're going to finish up. Just so people are aware, and it's for the record, we're not saying don't do anything.

But the plan that they've submitted, or that they presented to us calls for tearing this down and replacing it with a new structure.
01:53:38.86 Herb Weiner Mr. Chairman.
01:53:41.72 Mike Kelly And that's where we're saying, hold on a minute, did you do a full evaluation of whether this is a historically relevant structure?
01:53:46.42 Herb Weiner And where we are now.
01:53:49.02 Mike Kelly built by the federal government.

And...

would the placement of a new structure, whatever the design you submitted, fit with the historic nature of the whole area. So it's not don't do anything, it's do the right thing.
01:54:04.35 Herb Weiner Thank you. We're going to take a... Is there any public comment on this?

Hey, your turn, Chuck.

We've been waiting for you.
01:54:21.86 Charles Melton I'm sure not too anxiously.
01:54:22.05 Herb Weiner or not.
01:54:24.01 Charles Melton Just in short, I'm in favor, of course, of preserving this. But I'd like to just throw a couple of things in. First of all, I think the city council has taken the right steps formally and hit all the bases. The staff has done the same thing. The historical landmarks board is doing their bit.
01:54:24.81 Herb Weiner .

Bye.
01:54:41.96 Charles Melton and the Historical Society is doing their bit.

the general public would like to be with you.

And so I would like you to know that there's a big element of us that favor this, that are not organized particularly.

with any of those, although I'm affiliated to some degree with all of them.

that there's a lot of respect for what's happening here.

And I'm glad you're doing it.

I'm going to throw in a little personal bit here.

Uh.

but, One often wonders why you want to preserve these historic things.

I have a personal interest. I was a veteran of World War II.

And the reason I'm here now is probably because Ships like this were built and supplied my cousins in the British Isles with the effort to defeat the Nazis. And so I'm here speaking to you, and I'm not buried under a cross somewhere in France. So these historic memories have some real significance to people who are alive today.

including me.

my kids and my grandchildren.

Thank you.
01:55:53.15 Herb Weiner Thank you, Chuck. With that, we're going to take a five-minute, up to five-minute recess.
01:56:04.88 Herb Weiner The next item that we have on there is the FUF settlement agreement and lease with Sausalito Yard Harbor, and that will be...

Mary Radner.

Ta-da!
01:56:15.26 Mary Wagner Thank you, Mr. Mayor, members of the council. Portions of this report will look familiar to you because you received it at your last city council meeting on January 11th. So the issue in front of you are the proposed amendments to two agreements, both what we've called for shorthand the 1976 agreement or the settlement agreement, and also the lease with Sausalito Yacht Harbor. This is a slide that will look familiar that depicts the areas that are covered by these two different controlling documents, the pink being the 1976 or the settlement agreement and the purplish being the 1976 or the settlement agreement and the purplish being the lease agreement.

1975, 1976. Depends on whether you look at when it was dated or when it was termed effective. This agreement covers portions of Boat Burst located on Channel, Dolphin, Ensign, Johnson, and Donahue. It provides that for a period of time from 1977 to December 31 of 2027, Sausalito Yacht Harbor will utilize this property and will pay the city 5% of any gross annual rentals received by them from those properties that I indicated. That's an annual payment that's made to the city by Sausalito Yacht Harbor. It also includes some language about pay parking along Humboldt.

The other controlling document is the 1992 lease agreement between the city and Sausalito Yacht Harbor which followed a series of agreements that affected the harbor that were with the state and then were transferred along. And there was also, as you recall, some litigation and issues dealing with the ferry landing and some other issues going on out there. Under this lease, Saucyutillat Harbor has the right to use the property that's depicted from September of 91 to August 31 of 2041 under the unilateral lease extensions that are in place for Sausalito Yacht Harbor. It provides for a rent of 25% of the annual gross receipts from the boat births and from the pay parking, and then 5% of the annual gross receipts from boatyard activities. That formula is subject to readjustment under the lease based upon a somewhat convoluted process that we've gone through with other tenants that involves a Thank you.

a determination of what the fair market rent would be and that has not always been the best or the most successful process for the city to utilize. Under the lease, the city is obligated to maintain and repair the existing bulkhead.

The proposed amendments that you have in front of you tonight are consistent with the terms that were presented to you on the 11th under the amendments to both documents. The terms of both documents would be extended to 2061.

we would maintain the current payment structure, that's 5% under the settlement agreement, and we would lock in that 25% rental rate under the lease agreement.

And then Sausalito Yacht Harbor has agreed to share with the city the cost of the bulkhead equally.

This is just a slide that depicts the actual area of the bulkhead replacement, and this is it in plan form.

The way that this is structured is that we're going to open an escrow account. The city will actually contribute a million dollars up front. The Sausalito Yacht Harbor will contribute the remaining amounts to cover the construction costs. And then the document, the lease document, has been amended.

to provide that half the total construction cost less than $1 million. So let's use a round number of $5 million. If the total construction cost at the end of the day was $5 million, each party would be obligated to pay $2.5 We would take away the million that the cities contributed, leaving 1.5, spread that over 25 years, subject to a 5% annual escalator, and utilize it as a rent credit against Saucyotl Yacht Harbor's obligations under both the lease and the settlement agreement.

MC.
02:00:24.98 Mike Kelly question here. You just explained the 5% annual escalator of what? Which component?
02:00:29.84 Mary Wagner 1.5.
02:00:29.85 Mike Kelly Thank you.

of the credit.
02:00:33.52 Mary Wagner Correct.
02:00:33.92 Mike Kelly Yeah.
02:00:36.65 Mary Wagner No, this is new. This is the new information that we've gotten since your January 11th meeting.
02:00:37.79 Mike Kelly Um,
02:00:42.97 Mary Wagner Bids were opened on Friday, January 21st for the bulkhead replacement project, which is being let as a public works project through the city's process. The apparent low bidder was raised construction with a bid of $4,221,248.
02:01:05.04 Mary Wagner we are proposing to bring an item to the council to award the construction contract on February 1st.
02:01:17.83 Mike Kelly Do you want to wait until the end or what do you want to do?
02:01:22.71 Mary Wagner Why don't I walk through it and then we'll come back for questions.
02:01:24.41 Mike Kelly for questions.
02:01:25.04 Herb Weiner Thank you.
02:01:25.19 Mike Kelly Thank you.
02:01:25.26 Mary Wagner And then if it's for me or for Charlie or for Jonathan Goldman, you can pull one of us up. I did want to walk quickly.
02:01:25.32 Mike Kelly Thank you.
02:01:32.78 Mary Wagner through some revisions that have been made since the documents were put into your agenda packet.

The first is to the amendment, the 1976 agreement.

And this will actually affect both agreements.

Um, Both agreements and a cross default provision was included after some discussions with Sausalito Yacht Harbor last week. It was included so that any default under the lease would be treated as a default under the agreement, and any default under the agreement would be treated as a default under the lease. This was a significant issue to Sausalito Yacht Harbor.

and something that they had raised very early on, and then I had put this in, that these agreements be treated separately, that they were negotiated separately. They came from two very different negotiations with the city and they objected to have any cross-defaults under included in these documents. I don't think it's a risk to the city to remove it, because I think the significant protections of the lease protect the main revenue source for the city, and that decoupling them, if you will, doesn't expose the city to any significant risks.

then if we can turn to the lease. So in addition to that cross default issue, Let me go quickly over this section that I have highlighted up on the board for you. It's 4.03 minimum monthly rent. This is a provision that's taken directly from your existing lease with Sausalito Yacht Harbor. And basically, if you bear with me for a minute, what happens is they're obligated to pay you 25% of their rental income from the slips that are on city property. But the lease provides for a minimum monthly rent, which is calculated by taking the preceding three lease years, averaging them out, and then dividing by 12. And they're supposed to pay you that as minimum monthly rent. And then it's trued up, if you will, semi-annually, to either adjust by them paying more money if it's too low, or us returning money to them if it's too high.

There is a provision in this section that says that if...

births are held vacant for, they can be held vacant for six months every ten years and that that can be removed from the least minimum monthly rent calculation.

It doesn't mean that's the only time that they can be vacant, but it means for purposes of minimum monthly rent calculation, that income can be pulled out so they don't have to say, over the last three years when we had those births available, we have to pay for that when they're not available. And it all gets washed out by the by the TrueUp with the percentage rent. Sorry, I had the wrong clicker in my hand. It was very confusing.

So this is the language that's new to this section. So what they have asked for and what staff believes is acceptable is that that six-month period every ten years doesn't include the period that we're replacing the bulkhead. They know that they're going to have some dredging work that they need to do, and because you're being paid on the percentage rent, it basically starts the ten-year clock anew and doesn't count this period of construction against those six months.

The next section that has a change that's different from what you have in front of you is in the rent credit section.

We've just clarified when it begins. So the rent credit will commence on the date which is 30 days after the project is deemed complete. The project is deemed complete when the Public Works Department, Public Works Director, his designee issues a final notice of completion. When that occurs, it will trigger a process where the construction costs are finalized and then the rent credit is calculated, including the 5% escalator. What we've taken away from the 5% escalator Is any unused rent credits in that first year of the rent credit period on the thought that it may take them a little while to lease up the births that are needing to be vacated to replace the bulkhead? And so if, for example, we assume a credit of $8,000 a month and they paid $6,000, that $2,000 carry forward would not accumulate the 5% escalator.

This was also, let me see if it's in this one.

That's it for that one. Language is also added to clarify what was always the intent, which was that the rent credit could be utilized to offset the annual payment obligation under the 1976 agreement. Language was added to Exhibit A to clarify that the number in Exhibit A, which is kind of an example of the rent credit calculation and how it will be applied, that the true up number was meant to cover that payment obligation to the settlement agreement. And as I indicated previously, the cross default provisions were also removed from the amendment to the lease.

That's staff's presentation. I'm of course happy to answer any questions, but staff's recommendation is that the Council adopt the resolution approving the First Amendment to the lease and to the agreement as they were revised on the red lines that you were provided with tonight.
02:07:04.85 Herb Weiner Okay.
02:07:08.97 Herb Weiner Any questions from the...

Yeah, I've got a couple questions.
02:07:11.16 Mike Kelly Yeah, I've got a couple questions for Mary. Mary, what would constitute a default under the settlement agreement that you're willing to let go of cross default?
02:07:21.50 Mary Wagner Failure to pay the 5%.
02:07:24.49 Mike Kelly So why wouldn't you want that across the phone?
02:07:27.34 Mary Wagner because it's a very small portion of the income stream that's being utilized under the the amendments to the agreements. If they, for example, if you cross default them and they stop paying the 5% on the Donahue, Ensign, et cetera, births, Cross defaulting allows for a lot of provisions that don't exist in that agreement, that exist under the lease agreement.

and they're not willing to accept that. They're not willing to pay for the cost of the construction of the bulkhead, essentially,
02:07:56.65 Unknown they're not willing to pay for
02:08:02.14 Mary Wagner $2.5 million on their half to create those extra obligations under that agreement, which has stood by itself for quite a period of time.
02:08:15.15 Jonathan Leone I think there are different parties to build those agreements
02:08:17.61 Mary Wagner There's multiple parties to the settlement agreement, but we're only amending the provisions that deal with Yacht Harbor and the city. And there is a provision in that agreement that specifically states that those are specific only to Yacht Harbor and the city.
02:08:20.55 Jonathan Leone agreement.
02:08:32.89 Jonathan Leone From a legal point of view, it would get very muddy taking that into a court versus taking – if they default on the small one, they'd probably default it on the big one
02:08:37.96 Mary Wagner Thank you.
02:08:38.00 Unknown THE END OF THE END OF THE
02:08:43.26 Mary Wagner I will.

If I may, Mr. Vice Mayor and Council Member Leon, Thank you.

You know, that agreement sprang into place because everybody disagreed about who owned the property. Right, yeah. And so it does not surprise me that that agreement isn't structured as a lease because from their perspective, Sausalito Yacht Harbor's perspective,
02:08:53.08 Herb Weiner Thank you.
02:08:59.43 Linda Pfeifer Yeah.
02:08:59.68 Herb Weiner Thank you.
02:08:59.89 Linda Pfeifer .
02:09:01.91 Mary Wagner We don't have the rights of a landlord to that property. But that in order to move… From their perspective.
02:09:06.82 Linda Pfeifer in order to move. From their perspective.
02:09:08.68 Mary Wagner Yeah.
02:09:08.88 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.
02:09:08.90 Mary Wagner Thank you.
02:09:08.96 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.
02:09:08.98 Mary Wagner Thank you.
02:09:09.05 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.
02:09:09.10 Mary Wagner Thank you.
02:09:09.11 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.
02:09:09.13 Mary Wagner Correct.
02:09:09.99 Jonathan Leone Right. Well, from everybody, everybody agreed to disagree and all signed up. Correct. So you could say that we all agreed that we couldn't agree who owned it. No, I got that.
02:09:10.08 Mary Wagner Right.
02:09:18.78 Mike Kelly No, I got that.
02:09:20.03 Jonathan Leone But she's right. One's a lease, one's a settlement agreement on a court action.

But if they...
02:09:26.21 Mike Kelly But if they, if the, if the,
02:09:26.97 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.
02:09:30.04 Mike Kelly they backed out of the, are there any penalties for not living up to the settlement agreement? Are there any, what are the, if I decided tomorrow I didn't want to be a part of that anymore.
02:09:43.29 Mary Wagner It would mean the gloves are off and we could fight some more over who owns what. Right. Owns what.
02:09:47.00 Mike Kelly owns what? Right. So there's no It's not structured as a lease, so you don't have to.
02:09:50.71 Mary Wagner It's not structured as a lease, so you don't have, you know,
02:09:53.60 Mike Kelly There's no penalties whatsoever. It's just everybody starts fighting again, basically.
02:09:57.50 Mary Wagner There aren't penalties that are similar to a default provision in a lease and being able to go in and bring a quiet, you know, an eviction action. That's correct.

But as I stated, that doesn't surprise me because the parties disagreed about who owned it. The substantial protections you have under the lease apply to the greater amount of the income and the property. And because of that, and because it's a deal breaker for them, and because they are coming up with half the payment for the bulkhead, that staff is recommending that that come out. It is obviously a deal point, but it's a deal breaker from their perspective.
02:10:41.25 Mike Kelly And the...

Thank you.

Just to clarify on the monthly rent, the temporary Basically, the way I look at what they're asking for is sort of, don't make me pay rent while I'm doing tenant improvements to a certain degree, whether it's dredging on their part or the bulkhead on the in this particular project. That's kind of the six.

In a sense.
02:11:13.43 Mary Wagner Well, they don't have to pay. If the births are empty and they're not getting income from them, they don't have an obligation to pay you 25% of zero.
02:11:21.72 Herb Weiner Right.
02:11:22.19 Mary Wagner But while they're saying, this provision made sense to me when you look back and see how they're calculating minimum monthly rent to say, You look back at the previous three lease years.

If in the next lease year we're holding boards open because we have to do a bunch of work, but we're paying you on the previous year, you're going to end up paying us back because it's the 25% true up will come along and we don't have the income.
02:11:46.69 Mike Kelly So for the following years after that you're still carrying that year of zero forward, right? If you're doing it for a year.
02:11:49.16 Mary Wagner still
02:11:52.80 Mary Wagner On the calculation of minimum monthly rent, that's correct. But it's not really dollars out of pocket because it comes out of the 25%
02:11:55.49 Mike Kelly That's correct.
02:12:01.36 Mary Wagner rent.
02:12:03.87 Jonathan Leone What would happen if they went years without paying, without filling the spaces, therefore no credits could be applied and then the lease expires?

And they're still about to...
02:12:14.08 Mary Wagner The lease is now for a period of 50 years. The rent credits are for a period of 25 years.
02:12:20.29 Jonathan Leone Thank you.
02:12:20.33 Herb Weiner Thank you.
02:12:20.34 Jonathan Leone If there's no...
02:12:25.03 Mary Wagner If they had zero income for 27 years, we would roll forward their rent credits and then discuss with them a mutually agreeable extension of that period.
02:12:28.26 Jonathan Leone We would roll forward.
02:12:38.90 Jonathan Leone because I think that's a good thing.
02:12:39.16 Mary Wagner If they don't have lease income for 25 years on that property, they probably have bigger
02:12:39.18 Jonathan Leone If-
02:12:44.59 Mary Wagner issues.
02:12:45.35 Mike Kelly Thank you.
02:12:45.47 Mary Wagner So we're not...
02:12:46.45 Jonathan Leone Jesus being here.
02:12:46.87 Mary Wagner .
02:12:47.04 Mike Kelly But we're not, there was a discussion point at one time whether they wanted to
02:12:48.96 Mary Wagner Thank you.
02:12:49.03 Herb Weiner Yes.
02:12:50.18 Mary Wagner But we're not.
02:12:50.97 Herb Weiner Thank you.
02:12:51.04 Jonathan Leone Point being there.
02:12:51.63 Mary Wagner Thank you.
02:12:56.68 Mike Kelly have a share of the cost of relocating some of those votes, but that's not in here. That's just the loss of income versus the...
02:13:02.28 Mary Wagner That wasn't an issue from them. That was a concern that was raised and put to rest from a legal perspective.
02:13:10.72 Mike Kelly And as far as the ongoing and at some point end of life obligations of maintenance and capital expenditures on this bulkhead and or any other reference capital
02:13:25.87 Herb Weiner IN THE OTHER.
02:13:29.35 Mike Kelly infrastructure referenced in these leases. Who bears that cost going forward even with this amendment?
02:13:37.77 Mary Wagner Well, this is being treated as any other city-owned public work, like a road or a wall or a building and that The lease has not, the obligations under the lease have not been modified regarding repair of and maintenance of the bulkhead. So the city's obligation would, as it does with any other improvements that it owns, is to project and anticipate future replacement and repair costs and to utilize the rental income stream from that and set aside monies to fix it.
02:14:12.38 Mike Kelly Right, but are there any other leases that the city has where it's compelled to do this at end of life?
02:14:19.77 Mary Wagner I don't know the answer to that question.
02:14:19.85 Mike Kelly I don't know.

But that obligation will still exist at the end of this.
02:14:25.99 Mary Wagner At the end of the useful life of this bulkhead, absent any other provisions to the contrary, and I believe the useful life of the bulkhead is projected to extend at least to the end of the lease period, the city would have to reanalyze putting more assets into this structure and whether or not that makes sense from an economic and a long-
02:14:48.30 Mike Kelly But they're still the same clause that essentially they could do it themselves if they deem and they get a third party to deem it to be in the same situation we're in now.
02:14:57.40 Mary Wagner There's a clause in the lease that provides if the city is in default under its obligations in the lease, which includes maintenance and repair of the bulkhead, the tenant can fix that and basically charge back the city the cost of doing that. That's not an unusual provision.
02:15:14.15 Jonathan Leone Isn't it also in the Shweb?
02:15:14.71 Mary Wagner Oh, so good.

I can look it up if I have the actual language in front of me.
02:15:18.85 Jonathan Leone language in front of me. I remember being off-send against rent so that if the lease expires, there's no more rent
02:15:25.38 Mary Wagner If you bear with me one minute, I'll tell you what it says.
02:15:28.35 Jonathan Leone at least all the prisoners would run with the land and the leasing storage.
02:15:36.18 Mary Wagner I can multitask if you want to ask me another question while I do that.
02:15:38.96 Herb Weiner What I'll do is while you're looking that up, is there anybody from the public at this time here that would like to make a comment?

Time's up, Mary. Shoot.
02:15:50.64 Mary Wagner I'm not that fast of a multitasker. Bear with me.
02:15:50.71 Herb Weiner Thank you.

That's right.

I'm sorry.
02:15:54.37 Herb Weiner Thank you.
02:15:54.67 Herb Weiner Thank you.
02:15:55.03 Mike Kelly I actually have a question for Jonathan while she's looking at it. That's okay.
02:15:57.91 Herb Weiner because that's just...

Thank you.
02:15:59.03 Mike Kelly Thank you.
02:15:59.13 Herb Weiner President Jonathan.
02:16:00.68 Mike Kelly Thank you.
02:16:00.70 Herb Weiner Thank you.
02:16:00.75 Mike Kelly Thank you.

Jonathan, given the size of the dollar amount here, is there
02:16:01.68 Herb Weiner THE FAMILY.
02:16:01.76 Herb Weiner Yes, sir.
02:16:08.90 Mike Kelly a need and or a complexity to this project that comparing the bids I'm going to say for comparing this to obviously more moving parts to the public, or there were, to the public safety building project. Maybe there still are.

the need to have an outside review of the bids to make sure it's all apples to apples across the board so that, you know, not that I don't trust your skill set, but you have a thousand other things kind of to do. And is that something we're planning on doing to kind of have a or is it not necessary given the nature of this project?
02:16:53.58 Jonathon Goldman The short answer, Councilmember Leon, is that I certainly would not presume to single-handedly try to evaluate
02:17:04.03 Mike Kelly these bids, you per se, but just your department and given the resources that you have at your
02:17:10.96 Jonathon Goldman nor would we presume to multi-handedly try to evaluate these bids with the resources available only within my department. We have the benefit of a team that has been assembled to get the project out to bid and to evaluate the bids, prepare the anticipated construction schedules, et cetera. Riedinger consultants, the representatives of the Sausalito Yacht Harbor, the design engineer for this project, the city attorney, and consulting counsel are all involved in our process at the moment of evaluating the bids that we've received, responding to Public Records Act requests that we have received regarding the bids, and then vetting the responsibility and responsiveness of the contractors that submitted bids.
02:17:17.31 Mike Kelly Uh...
02:17:30.74 Mary Wagner So...
02:17:30.79 Herb Weiner Thank you.
02:17:30.98 Mary Wagner you TO.
02:18:17.92 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.

So you're comfortable with the team looking at it.
02:18:21.28 Jonathon Goldman Thank you.
02:18:21.37 Herb Weiner I'm comfortable with the number.
02:18:24.45 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.
02:18:24.47 Mary Wagner Thank you.
02:18:24.94 Herb Weiner Okay, Mary.
02:18:27.29 Mary Wagner Thank you. And a somewhat long answer to your question. But Article V sets forth the city's obligations to maintain and repair the bulkhead.

It also includes Section 503.

That provides that if the city fails to perform its obligations under this Article 5, that the tenant can perform such obligations on the city's behalf.

And then put the reasonable cost together with 10% interest there on, charge the city that amount, and if the city doesn't pay it, that they deduct it from future rental obligations until it's paid in full.
02:19:07.77 Jonathan Leone Thank you.
02:19:07.81 Herb Weiner Thank you.
02:19:07.86 Jonathan Leone Thank you.

then it would be a lawsuit if it was at the end of the lease. Charlie, can I ask?
02:19:12.38 Mike Kelly Charlie, can I?
02:19:13.66 Herb Weiner I have no question. Shall we?
02:19:13.97 Mike Kelly I have a question.
02:19:14.64 Jonathan Leone Thank you.
02:19:17.04 Mike Kelly probably.

Charlie, if it comes back, let's say 4.2 becomes a hard number, is there a proportionate reduction in the amount of contribution up front, or does it just come off the back end of what, you know, does it go down $400,000 on what we'd have to put in up front, or is it how would this structure handle that if it's less than $5 million?
02:19:43.97 Jeffrey Chase So from what we have is a financial policy that presupposed that one million in cash would be used and the balance then would be financed through the terms of the lease. But if it came to that, the financial policy decision would be brought to the City Council and the City Council would be asked do they want to fund the full million dollars or would they want to proportionately discount?
02:20:08.98 Mike Kelly on this.
02:20:09.35 Jeffrey Chase Thank you.
02:20:09.37 Mike Kelly Thank you.

And on your memory of the analysis that you've done already on how we arrived at that million dollars. It escapes me, unfortunately. But what would your guess be in terms of the most financially opportune thing to do? Forget whether the other party would agree to it as far as reducing your contribution up front or anything.
02:20:30.48 Jeffrey Chase Yeah, I think we maximize our net present value of the revenues from the lease minus the credits that apply by staying with the million dollar advance payment and reducing the amount we finance over the term of the lease. Okay.

Thank you.
02:20:48.79 Herb Weiner Any other questions?
02:20:51.54 Herb Weiner Thank you.
02:20:51.91 Herb Weiner I guess direct.
02:20:51.96 Herb Weiner Thank you.
02:20:51.99 Carolyn Ford I'm sorry.

emotional.
02:20:54.24 Herb Weiner I move that we...
02:20:57.61 Carolyn Ford I move that we adopt the resolution.
02:20:59.06 Linda Pfeifer Okay, go ahead.
02:21:00.87 Herb Weiner Thank you.

Thank you.
02:21:01.90 Carolyn Ford Thank you.
02:21:01.92 Herb Weiner Oh, yeah.
02:21:01.98 Carolyn Ford Thank you.

Yeah.

All right.
02:21:03.11 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.
02:21:04.31 Carolyn Ford that we adopt the resolution, the City Council of the City of Sausalito, approving the First Amendment to lease of public tides and submerged land, Sausalito Yacht Harbor, and the First Amendment to the agreement.
02:21:18.40 Herb Weiner Second, is there a second?
02:21:20.27 Mary Wagner Thank you.
02:21:20.56 Carolyn Ford Thank you.
02:21:20.80 Herb Weiner If-
02:21:21.41 Mary Wagner I apologize, Mr. Mayor. Does that include the revisions that were presented in the red lines tonight?

Yeah.
02:21:26.75 Mike Kelly .
02:21:27.02 Mary Wagner Thank you.
02:21:27.25 Mike Kelly Thank you.

So just a comment on the motion because we didn't bring it back up here for comments rather than questions. So, and I'll keep it brief because I know you don't want to hear from me. So for me, I think that the city staff and the negotiating groups that have worked on this over time have done their best to get to, in a bad situation,
02:21:39.63 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.

Thank you.
02:22:01.92 Mike Kelly and understanding whether a good or a bad one, but the best one I think probably from a financial standpoint, the that perhaps could have been given the set of circumstances. That being said, Though, and I've been thinking about this since our last set of meetings about this, um, it still is a bad situation.

For me, What I've learned in the 10 years of government involvement is You try to make a bad situation at least bad as possible, but you still don't have to like it and think it's a good idea. And so I don't think it's a good idea.

I think people have done a lot of good work to get it to be the least bad alternative. And I've been a part of that, trying, but not as much certainly as Mike and others.

So I just wanted to say that I appreciate the efforts to get to where we are, but I don't even in a less perfect world should be given the unanswered questions of who owns what the utility of this investment from a long-term financial investment for the city as well as the outlying obligation that's going to be inherited by the kick the can problem down the road for 50 years.
02:23:29.56 Jonathan Leone Just let me add that it is making the best out of a tough situation. There is the advantage that although the bulkhead largely serves South Carolina Yard Harbor, it also does hold our peninsula together and protect our spinnaker, which provides a substantial amount of income to the city. So there is that sort of nascent benefit that we get from that. And I want to compliment the Maddens who did step up and throw a million and a half bucks at this, and they didn't have to. So I think that's a good citizen, and they're making the best out of what they think is a bad situation as well. So I think we're all friends, and we'll go forward, and hopefully everybody will be compensated
02:24:18.09 Mike Kelly Yeah, no, I'll second that from a financial perspective.
02:24:18.12 Jonathan Leone Yeah, no.

THE END OF THE END OF THE
02:24:24.53 Mike Kelly and from their perspective made the best of the unclear situation where they know the city doesn't have $5 million or 4 point whatever lying around to do this project. But it's still, there's so many unresolved issues with this. It's going to be somebody else's problem, and that's unfortunate.
02:24:26.90 Linda Pfeifer Yeah.
02:24:31.11 Mary Wagner Thank you.

Thank you.
02:24:33.75 Herb Weiner So.
02:24:38.67 Jonathan Leone Yeah.

Yeah.
02:24:40.94 Herb Weiner Thank you.
02:24:40.95 Jonathan Leone Yeah.
02:24:41.04 Herb Weiner Yeah.

Muddies the water, huh?
02:24:42.94 Mike Kelly Thank you.

Thank you.
02:24:43.20 Herb Weiner Thank you.
02:24:43.23 Mike Kelly Thank you.
02:24:43.26 Herb Weiner Thank you.
02:24:43.32 Mike Kelly Thank you.
02:24:43.37 Carolyn Ford Yeah.
02:24:43.47 Mike Kelly Hopefully not too much. Rose time. It'll be a big couple. May I make a quick comment?
02:24:43.87 Carolyn Ford Thank you.
02:24:43.94 Herb Weiner about two minutes.
02:24:46.01 Carolyn Ford May I make a quick comment? I would just like to thank the Maddens as well because they have donated a tremendous amount of money to this and it does help both them and the city. And we'd like to suggest that we start researching the issue of who owns that land. that we and I think that it was mentioned earlier that we need to document what we have done and why so that future city councils know what's going on.
02:25:19.73 Mary Wagner THE FAMILY IS
02:25:19.80 Herb Weiner Thank you.
02:25:19.82 Herb Weiner Yeah.
02:25:19.88 Herb Weiner Yeah.
02:25:19.90 Herb Weiner Thank you.
02:25:20.03 Herb Weiner We are.
02:25:20.39 Herb Weiner Thank you.
02:25:20.41 Mary Wagner you
02:25:25.45 Herb Weiner They won't look at us so bad. Okay, well we have a second on there. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Opposed? No. Okay, with that, we'll move on to the next item. And that is the acceptance of the parking and revenue control equipment. And look who's up here.
02:25:25.99 Carolyn Ford Thank you.

I know.
02:25:33.16 Herb Weiner I don't know.
02:25:33.52 Unknown Thank you.
02:25:33.62 Herb Weiner I,
02:25:33.84 Unknown Aye.
02:25:34.94 Mary Wagner Thank you.
02:25:43.59 Herb Weiner So,
02:25:49.21 Herb Weiner Hehehehe.
02:25:51.20 Jonathon Goldman Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Mr. Vice Mayor, members of the council, staff, and members of the community. This is item 6D on your agenda and in your packet this evening. If I'm not mistaken, I have set the record for longest staff report in the history of the city. I'm not sure the city clerk couldn't tell me. but I both apologize for that and at the same time wanted to make sure you had all of the information that you might desire at your fingertips to help address the question or the recommendation.
02:26:09.38 Mary Wagner The history.

Thank you.
02:26:31.21 Mike Kelly or the record of that. I don't know, for certain. But at 255 pages, this is a good start. There's 316, sorry.
02:26:40.65 Herb Weiner Thank you.
02:26:40.66 Jonathon Goldman Um,
02:26:41.03 Herb Weiner Thank you.
02:26:41.07 Jonathon Goldman you
02:26:41.59 Herb Weiner Could you make the print next time a little bit?
02:26:44.34 Herb Weiner you
02:26:44.39 Mary Wagner Thank you.
02:26:45.14 Jonathon Goldman Thank you.
02:26:45.24 Mary Wagner Thank you.
02:26:45.71 Jonathon Goldman I could, but you might ask me questions about it, and then I couldn't answer. This item before you is a recommendation that the City Council accept the parking access and revenue control systems equipment installed in City Parking Lots 1, 2, 3, and 4 by APARC Systems Incorporated as complete, asking that you authorize the city manager to release retention and that you authorize the issuance of a purchase order for one year of communications fees for the equipment and that you further encourage or
02:26:48.24 Herb Weiner Thank you.
02:26:48.33 Herb Weiner Thank you.
02:26:48.34 Herb Weiner Thank you.
02:26:48.36 Herb Weiner Thank you.
02:26:48.43 Mary Wagner Thank you.
02:26:48.44 Herb Weiner and I couldn't answer that.
02:26:49.84 Herb Weiner Thank you.
02:27:25.85 Jonathon Goldman to continue with the timely implementation of follow-on work, including the provision of resident cards and a merchant validation system.

A brief summary, and then I have also prepared some supplemental information that I will distribute and discuss. Certainly if you have questions of me at any point in the process, you're welcome to interrupt me. We also have representatives, again, of APARC and Streetline Systems here this evening, as well as our police department, which is responsible for the parking enterprise.
02:28:06.19 Herb Weiner Thank you.
02:28:06.32 Jonathon Goldman All of the City of Sausalito staff responsible for the operation and use of all of the equipment provided by APARC under its contract with the City are fully and completely satisfied that the equipment is now consistently and reliably operating as it is supposed to. Further, City staff are committed to continuing to work with APARC to fully implement the resident card and merchant validation systems, signage improvements, and expansion of the system into on-street areas now served by mechanical single-space meters as subsequent phases of work.

As I indicated at the outset, staff therefore respectfully requests that the City Council adopt the attached resolution accepting the system furnished as complete.

authorize the issuance of a purchase order in the amount of $58,152 for one year of communications charges in conformance with the attached bid documents, and a requisition which actually isn't attached, and direct staff to continue with the timely implementation of follow-on work.

Rather than read the entire rest of the staff report, I'm going to jump to some of the questions that were asked by counsel in the past. Actually, I do need to go back to the staff report.
02:29:31.08 Jonathan Leone Before you do that, would you just say exactly how much money this approval constitutes being released? The entire $450,000 or $500,000 or more?
02:29:33.08 Jonathon Goldman Thank you.
02:29:42.10 Jonathon Goldman By contract, the amount that we are retaining is 10%, so approximately $48,000.
02:29:42.14 Jonathan Leone Well, I think.
02:29:46.71 Jonathan Leone Right.
02:29:50.10 Jonathan Leone Okay, so we're leasing $480,000 less than 10% retention.
02:29:50.17 Jonathon Goldman Thank you.
02:29:56.45 Jonathon Goldman We've already issued purchase orders for the full amount.
02:29:58.37 Jonathan Leone Wait a minute.

Okay.
02:30:01.51 Jonathon Goldman the amount that we have retained for performance
02:30:04.80 Jonathan Leone 58 grand.
02:30:05.46 Jonathon Goldman is 10% of that, so approximately $48,000.
02:30:07.37 Jonathan Leone So approximately.

And that's what we're going to pay tonight.

Thank you.

Thank you.
02:30:12.23 Jonathon Goldman Yes. There's more to what we're asking you to do. The second part of what we're asking you to do is to authorize us to enter into a one-year wireless communication charge.
02:30:12.24 Jonathan Leone Thank you.

Yes.

you to do.
02:30:21.12 Jonathan Leone enter into a
02:30:26.05 Jonathan Leone 58 grand.

That's 58. Correct.
02:30:28.43 Jonathon Goldman Correct. There was something else. Did you have a question, Councilmember?
02:30:35.73 Linda Pfeifer I did have a question. I don't know if I should ask it yet. I think you probably know what I'm going to ask, which is, I think we all saw, resident Bob Sadick's questions that were raised. I thought they were very valid and I thought they also spoke to some of the questions that had been raised in the fall with respect to timelines and what is being delivered when and I know specifically we were told that resident cards would be distributed within a month, and that was back in the fall.

and that didn't happen. And so I guess what I'm interested in learning is...
02:31:16.79 Mary Wagner and have a great day.
02:31:16.84 Herb Weiner Thank you.
02:31:16.86 Mary Wagner Thank you.
02:31:21.62 Linda Pfeifer You know, where...

where are those milestones?

the contract that Mr. Zadek you know, to having those milestones and deliverables.
02:31:36.21 Jonathon Goldman Um, I appreciate your question and I think the thing to do is to jump right to that because I have prepared a supplement here and I'm happy to discuss the questions that we received and responses.

Thank you.
02:31:54.17 Herb Weiner So,
02:31:54.61 Jonathon Goldman Thank you.
02:31:54.98 Herb Weiner Thank you.
02:32:12.61 Herb Weiner I know.
02:32:26.18 Linda Pfeifer So...

Thank you.
02:32:27.65 Jonathon Goldman Staff, APARC, and Council have received some constructive comments since the Council's last meeting on this item. To ensure that the Council and the community are fully aware of the facts as the Council considers staff's recommendation this evening, I prepared the following brief list of questions and answers. First question, does a written contract between the City and APARC exist because I can't find one in the record-setting voluminous doubt?

The written contract between APARC and the city consists of the bid documents, the bid, the resolution Council adopted awarding the contract to APARC, and the purchase orders the city issued to APARC to obligate the city. That contract is inclusive, meaning that all of the documents taken together are the contracts.

Were deadlines or milestones imposed on the vendor?
02:33:23.25 Herb Weiner Thank you.
02:33:23.37 Jonathon Goldman you In its bid, which is on page 170 of the staff report, APAR committed to substantial completion within 120 calendar days and final completion within 160 calendar days of notice to proceed. That 160-day date was approximately September 20th of 2010.

Question, what are the consequences of not meeting the milestone?

As indicated in the bid documents, page 137 of the staff report, the acceptance cycle for the project is extended should the system not pass the acceptance test. Without having passed the acceptance test, APARC has been required to incur the ongoing cost of operating the system until this evening until we have the opportunity to request that it be accepted.

That has cost them approximately $5,000 per month for wireless access fees.

Question, what was the harm the city incurred during the extended acceptance cycle?

Answer, for the six-month period between July 1 and November 30 in 2009, The city reportedly collected $858,000 in parking revenue.

In 2010, during the same six-month period, the city collected $859,000 in parking revenue. There's no indication that the city incurred any harm while the new parking equipment was in the acceptance cycle.

Question, what is phase two?

referred to in the staff report.

answers.

Further development and implementation of the commuter card, resident card, merchant validation system, and improvements to the flow of traffic and signage in the lots are the key short-term elements of Phase II described in the staff report.

Those, by the way, and I didn't say this in what I handed out, are not requirements in the base bid. They are not requirements under the contract, the equipment contract, that we're asking Council to accept this evening.

No expenditures other than the issuance of a purchase order for one year of wireless access charges are being approved this evening.

Staff will return to Council with the details of any subsequent significant changes in the city's parking operation.
02:35:53.54 Jonathon Goldman I'm going to divert from this. Presumably that, hopefully that answered the questions that you and others might have had. And go back to questions that came up during Council's last deliberation on this matter.
02:36:08.22 Linda Pfeifer anymore.
02:36:12.17 Linda Pfeifer If I may, I just had a clarification, Mr. Mayor. So in question, were deadlines or milestones imposed on the vendors? So what I'm hearing then, if I look at the materials on 170, is that the milestone There were no deadlines leading to the milestone, it was just 120 calendar days.

And then the list of specs are on 170.

four and five.

And I believe...

Did you just tell us that the Resident cards and commuter cards were not part of this bid.

Did I hear that wrong?
02:36:54.91 Jonathon Goldman Um...
02:36:55.40 Linda Pfeifer Sorry.
02:36:56.25 Jonathon Goldman I may have said it wrong. Certainly what we required the vendor to provide is equipment that is capable of accepting commuter cards and resident cards. They have done so. The details as to how the system interacts with those cards were not included with the system. were not included with this system. There's software development necessary to, and the commuter cards are not a difficult issue. The resident cards giving our residents in and out privileges and accounting for their time and finding a way to give them the experience that they're used to having and at the same time minimize the level of effort on staff's part so that we aren't, certainly are not writing citations to residents when we have the opportunity to bill them for their excess charges. And secondly, to the extent that we can minimize our level of effort in having to do billing, that's what we've been working with APARC on doing. And those development costs are not included in the base bid and the price of acquiring the equipment.
02:36:58.44 Linda Pfeifer Okay.
02:38:11.04 Linda Pfeifer as well.

So I would say my recollection when we were making the final decision and we had the two vendors before us We ask questions specifically around the resident cards and time frames. I mean, those, the answers we received to those questions drove our decision-making process, at least drove mine. So I'm a little bit...

that those requirements that were so key and in.

selecting the vendor were not included in the specifications. And I guess if they weren't, then I guess my next question is that what can we do about it?

I mean, I have to say that the reason I asked all those questions was because that was the most important, I mean, that was a very, very critical element for me. And until I see those requirements met, then I'm struggling with this.
02:39:33.35 Herb Weiner Thank you.
02:39:34.67 Adam Politzer If I may, Councilmember Pfeiffer, I think what maybe in simpler terms, because our Public Works Director is much more brighter than I am, commands the English language. I can say it in another way that may help not just the council here in the public tonight, but anyone that's following along with us at home or watching this in the future. The, when we went to bid and what came before the council was basically asking them to duplicate what we had, to give the same experience that they have that they had back prior to July 5th that we wanted our residents to get a card and be able to use that not have to punch in any numbers not do anything other than what they were doing today have a card slip it in there and park for their three hours what we learned when we sat down with them and as we were out in the field learning and talking and listening was that we had the ability to do more than just that. And that was a choice by staff to say we want to have the ability to give basically a bank. So the old system, you checked your card in and your three hours disappeared if you parked there for ten minutes or if you parked there for three hours. Now some of our residents being vocal as they may be, may have gone to the parking attendant and said, I only parked for 10 minutes, I've come back and I want another hour and our parking attendants may have accepted that and given them an in and out privilege opportunity. But the system itself took the three hours regardless of the amount of time that they stayed. So as we were working with APARC to improve the status quo and actually grow it to give the ability to park in lot one, two, three, or four for up to three hours throughout the entire day. And with the potential, if and when we were to move this system out and remove the parking meters, to give our residents the ability to park anywhere in town where you have to pay for parking by using their cards and having three hours of free pay in addition to that we wanted to move from a
02:41:38.72 Mary Wagner if,
02:41:58.43 Adam Politzer Thank you.
02:41:58.46 Linda Pfeifer Adam.
02:41:58.50 Adam Politzer Thank you.

I'm sorry.
02:41:59.17 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.

I'm sorry. Before you go too far, you've covered a lot of points that I have a lot of questions about. One is the decision that the cards on the three-hour free parking was now going to apply to all over Sausalito as opposed to parking lot one, two, and three. because historically, though that three-hour parking window, to my knowledge, those cards applied to parking lots one and three, I believe. And there was a reason for that. I believe the reason was to encourage residents to go to parking lots,
02:42:01.42 Adam Politzer Yes.
02:42:01.67 Debbie (City Clerk) Thank you.
02:42:42.12 Linda Pfeifer you know, downtown and shocked.

and stay connected, you know.

It strikes me in hearing this that there were decisions that were made at the staff level that were not necessarily you know, shared with Council and I can understand in the excitement of seeing the opportunities and it could be that I'm a minority opinion up here regarding that, but I guess from my I would have liked to know about, you know, as this grew and the robustness of the project grew, it would have been, you know.
02:43:26.89 Adam Politzer Let me respond and just maybe be more clear. From the very beginning, when we had Walker Parking Systems helping us bring information to the council, we've always said that we are going to expand the three hours of free parking to all four lots. So we've never talked about reducing the three-hour opportunity. We've talked from the beginning that one of the benefits of going to this system was that the residents would now have, and the public, but the public would pay, the residents would have access to all four of the lots, lots one, two, three, and four. The reason why the residents weren't able to use it in the past is one was lot four, was permit parking only. Lot two didn't have the same system because we had attendance at lots one and lots one and three. So I think that the council has been given the information that the residents were actually getting an enhancement for lots versus the two.
02:43:27.49 Linda Pfeifer Let me respond to this maybe.
02:44:43.25 Linda Pfeifer Well, giving an enhancement to the four lots, what I heard was giving the enhancement to the street parking and expanding this beyond. No, it never started. Oh, okay. That's what I had heard. That's my interpretation.
02:44:55.01 Debbie (City Clerk) Oh, yeah.
02:44:55.24 Jonathan Leone I'm not sure.
02:44:55.33 Debbie (City Clerk) Oh.
02:44:58.28 Jonathan Leone with my interpretation. Can I make a point of order here? There's a provision in this contract for liquidated damages.

If the contractor does not within the time period. That is the penalty for missing 160 days.

But when I look at the final acceptance of liquidated damages, we would have to have liquidated damages.

And frankly, I don't see any damages other than time. And the time certainly...
02:45:24.34 Herb Weiner Thank you.
02:45:24.35 Mike Kelly What?
02:45:27.73 Jonathan Leone has been used to good advantage to create a system that is unique to Sausalito.

So.

We haven't been damaged. We didn't lose any money.

In the case of the public safety building, we had liquidated damages claim. We put that up because they took longer than they were supposed to, but it was costing us money.

to do that.

And so when the final bottom line came, we drew the line, said here are the liquidated damages we have.

and we worked to reach a compromise with them on those liquidated damages. In this case, we don't have liquidated damages because we were collecting revenue at or above the level of the previous year.
02:46:02.51 Mary Wagner Thank you.
02:46:02.59 Herb Weiner Thank you.
02:46:02.61 Mary Wagner Thank you.
02:46:02.63 Herb Weiner Thank you.
02:46:02.69 Mary Wagner Thank you.
02:46:04.13 Jonathan Leone So I think this is a moot point. We can argue about we're unhappy that it took so long, or that perhaps they didn't realize what a complicated city they had gotten involved with, with all of our idiosyncratic needs and so on. But the truth is nobody's damaged here.
02:46:20.33 Linda Pfeifer Mr. Mayor, may I respond to that?
02:46:20.34 Jonathan Leone Mr.
02:46:23.87 Linda Pfeifer So from what I understand, Um...

in terms of damages, I understand that There are residents who have been parking free for the last six months.

Thank you.
02:46:34.30 Jonathan Leone Huge damage.
02:46:35.55 Linda Pfeifer Well, I mean, you just said we haven't lost money. That's not true. Yeah, but let me. If residents are a part of the free beyond three hours,
02:46:37.37 Jonathan Leone Thank you.
02:46:37.42 Herb Weiner That's not true.

If residents are a party for free beyond three hours. Yeah, but we did that as a courtesy. I mean, it was a transitional period.

And the idea was the worst thing we wanted to do was Thank you.

get residents really ticked off.

So we kind of went the extra mile. And as you look at it, even though going the extra mile, The numbers are just about the same.

as they were the year before.

So, and this is a growing process.
02:47:09.11 Herb Weiner That's true.
02:47:11.46 Herb Weiner And I think we will find out in the future with the hours set up and what we have there is that I think we have – I'm pretty satisfied with the system. And I think as time goes on, I think we'll become very adjusted and I'm very pleased with the system.

Thank you.
02:47:30.95 Carolyn Ford Yeah.
02:47:31.22 Herb Weiner Councilmember Ford.
02:47:32.45 Carolyn Ford And then I'll get back to you.
02:47:33.58 Herb Weiner And then I'll go back to you.
02:47:35.49 Carolyn Ford I think that we're getting into a discussion of the system, and maybe we should be just directing our questions. And I agree.
02:47:40.50 Herb Weiner Yeah.
02:47:43.98 Jonathan Leone Thank you.
02:47:44.13 Herb Weiner Thank you.
02:47:45.43 Jonathan Leone I think we need to make sure we all are operating with the same set of facts.
02:47:46.63 Herb Weiner We have a great day.
02:47:49.63 Herb Weiner Yeah.
02:47:49.93 Carolyn Ford Well, yes, but I do too, but I think we should continue with the questions to the staff and then get into the discussion. That's fine.
02:47:51.59 Herb Weiner Bye.
02:47:58.47 Herb Weiner That's fine. And thank you for that. Go ahead, Council Member Pfeiffer, you wanted to finish on anything?
02:48:04.40 Linda Pfeifer Oh.

No, but thank you, Mr. Mayor. Yeah, I think that's a good suggestion. We can continue with.
02:48:06.96 Herb Weiner in this tournament.

Okay.

All right, thank you.
02:48:16.11 Herb Weiner Thank you.
02:48:16.12 Jonathon Goldman I'm happy to be done and happy to answer questions. I'll be as many.
02:48:16.61 Herb Weiner I'm telling you.
02:48:16.97 Jonathan Leone That's a quick question.
02:48:21.73 Herb Weiner Oh, God.

I bet you, uh... Albeit so many.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Yeah.

you Oh.

Thank you.

Thank you.
02:48:29.86 Jonathon Goldman We also, for the record, the city attorney is here and if there are questions about the contract or the form of agreement, she's here. We have representatives from APARC. We have police department representatives to talk about their issues. I think our conclusions and recommendations are clear and I'll leave it at that.
02:48:56.41 Carolyn Ford I have one question.
02:48:56.44 Jonathon Goldman I have one.

Okay.
02:48:58.38 Herb Weiner Thank you.
02:48:58.48 Jonathon Goldman Thank you.
02:48:59.65 Carolyn Ford If I may, you're the only person who signed the staff report, Mr. Goldman.
02:49:00.69 Herb Weiner Thank you.
02:49:00.76 Jonathon Goldman you.
02:49:01.03 Herb Weiner Yeah.
02:49:01.16 Jonathon Goldman .
02:49:05.25 Herb Weiner Mr. Gulliver.
02:49:08.42 Jonathon Goldman I'm the only person who signed it by the agenda packet cut off. I see. The individuals whose spaces for signatures are there happen to be here this evening and I'm sure would be happy to discuss whether they concur or not with the staff.
02:49:12.92 Herb Weiner I see.
02:49:19.46 Herb Weiner I'm sure we'd be happy to discuss.
02:49:25.65 Herb Weiner That was me, Charlie.
02:49:29.09 Jonathon Goldman Thank you.
02:49:29.11 Adam Politzer I'll just comment for my signature obviously and then I do like to make a couple quick comments if I may. One is the mayor and I were up in Sacramento on Wednesday and the packet was reviewed and read but not ready for signature so that explains why my signature is absent there. I returned to the office today.
02:49:29.26 Herb Weiner Bye.
02:49:51.64 Herb Weiner Thank you.

Thank you.
02:49:56.34 Adam Politzer I do want to just add a couple of things. One is it has taken six months and part of that six months and I sent out an email in response to Mr. Sadek's, I think, excellent question. I want to again applaud the community to challenging staffs work and question it. It gives us an opportunity to educate the public, gives us an opportunity to put the council on a position to make informed decisions and because the question came ahead of time, it gave staff the opportunity to review it and provide feedback. And our administrative services director, Charlie Francis, our city attorney, Mary Mary Wagner and Jonathan Goldman and I sat down and went through those questions and I sent a response to the council and to mr. Zadek sharing that we would respond to the first floor at the council meeting and I responded to the fifth which was about the money and again just to remind the council at the very beginning of this one of the things that was direction from the council was to try to have as little impact on our residents as possible the change of going from a system with a person there to greet them and help them, a system that you paid as you left versus the paid as you come was going to be significant to just removing the gates we've heard some positive comments at the last one at our last meeting that suggested that that helped picking up and dropping off people at the ferry landing and there's a variety of other positives that have come from that. But as we moved, we made the decision to initiate this program during the peak season, July 5th, right after the busiest weekend of the year for the city of Sausalito. And we moved through this and that transition and then we moved into the slowest season, which was started in November and December and continues here in January and February, where we have ample parking for anyone that needs it.

24 hours a day, seven days a week, so there's really no loss versus during the summer months when we actually have the parking lot is full. So I think that we wanted to bring our residents along so that they weren't impacted with a negative experience of issuing a citation. I think that it was also a good decision, a good customer service decision, a good business decision, because on the other end, if we would have issued citations for people that were parking there longer than three hours or having to build them and then them question back and say look no your system wasn't working it would have cost us more to waive a $3 you know what we would have collected in $3 it would have cost us you know probably the neighborhood of $38 of staff time to waive a falsely issued ticket. So where we are maybe it did take too long. Maybe that wasn't.

anticipated but what I think we're getting at the end and where Jonathan Goldman has stated where the staff is satisfied we're not just satisfied we're very pleased with APARC We're pleased that they gave us extra. They gave us extra time. They gave us extra services. And I think they gave us extras on the product that we ended up with. And so we're now in the position to move forward as we start looking at the peak season that's coming in the spring of getting nice signs there versus the temporary signs that we have out there. The looking at the restriping and the repavement and the circulation there. We may not get to the repavement and circulation because I think that would be too aggressive and too many issues to overcome but at least we can start that discussion at the council level and see where that progresses over the next several months as that discussion continues. So all in all I would also like to really applaud the staff from Jonathan Goldman's efforts and you heard Councilmember Leon talk about the thousands of things that are on his plate. This was no short order, a lot of technical details, working with multiple facets of the community and various departments. I'd like to also recognize Captain Roebacher, our acting chief, Stacey Gregory, and Curtis Kug for their role in this. I think the team, again, got together. You have Chris Majora, Gene Schertz, you had other people, all of the parking enforcement officers, you know, the many of our business members that had a lot at stake. but all in all it took six months and I think we have we definitely have a product that is better than what we had before and has the opportunity to take us months and I think we have we definitely have a product that is better than what we had before and has the opportunity to take us take us further because we're not done I think we're at the beginning and they'll be new technologies that advance our parking into the future and those will roll out as our Public Works director had mentioned when we come back to you with some additional things. So I apologize to the community and to the council that it took longer than the initial 90 days that we predicted, but I also think that the councils could be very proud of the actions that we took to actually improve the product that we originally thought we were purchasing.
02:55:28.99 Jonathan Leone It's 20 days longer than the 160.
02:55:33.03 Adam Politzer you
02:55:33.20 Jonathan Leone Thank you.

who were donors.
02:55:35.06 Herb Weiner OK.
02:55:37.59 Herb Weiner Bye.
02:55:37.79 Jonathan Leone Thank you.
02:55:37.93 Herb Weiner Thank you.
02:55:37.94 Jonathan Leone Thank you.
02:55:38.03 Herb Weiner I can't.
02:55:38.45 Herb Weiner Look, yeah, and by the way, technology, it's always going to be changing anyway, so...
02:55:38.57 Jonathan Leone Thank you.
02:55:38.60 Herb Weiner Bye.
02:55:38.74 Jonathan Leone Thank you.
02:55:38.75 Herb Weiner Thank you.
02:55:38.77 Jonathan Leone Yeah.
02:55:38.98 Herb Weiner Yeah, and by the way,
02:55:44.66 Mike Kelly I just asked a question I was going to ask before.
02:55:46.43 Herb Weiner You may.

Mr. Goldman.
02:55:49.99 Mike Kelly Is there an opportunity, and I couldn't find it in the Pardon me for not being able to find it in this
02:56:00.44 Herb Weiner It's those glasses.

Thank you.
02:56:01.74 Mike Kelly Thank you.
02:56:01.81 Herb Weiner Thank you.
02:56:01.84 Mike Kelly It's probably a function of that, too. You know, it probably would take a year anyway to come up with some other solution, having to pay 60,000 of wireless charges. But is there an opportunity to either
02:56:03.06 Herb Weiner Thank you.

function of that.
02:56:17.53 Mike Kelly I know there's a technology limit in your current system to using sort of a more of a contained network whether it's Wi-Fi or just having the city Absent Vicki, the whatever resolution controls putting anything in the parking lots.

installing its own repeaters working with the wireless companies and somehow crafting a more economical alternative to 60K ad infinitum probably growing at a nice clip. So is there in the maintenance contract for that, it probably would to replace it early and exit this maintenance contract for the wireless charges or the communication fee contract or is there an opportunity going forward to examine a way to minimize that through alternative
02:57:00.28 Jonathan Leone Thank you.
02:57:07.92 Mike Kelly Technology.

Thank you.
02:57:09.41 Jonathon Goldman There's certainly the opportunity going
02:57:12.85 Mike Kelly past that point, but does this obligate us for the full year of stuff?
02:57:12.87 Jonathon Goldman you
02:57:17.52 Jonathon Goldman Yes, and the reason for that is that it was a bid up. And the competitors gave us ideas, gave us firm commitments as to what those charges would be. One of the reasons to only ask council to enter into a one-year wireless agreement this evening at that price is to make sure that if there are better ways, less costly and better service ways to deliver what the system needs, that we have the opportunity to do that. And I will take this opportunity to thank the city manager for his compliments and also make it clear that he too has played a role in the success of the program thus far and that I'm confident that with APARC's continued involvement, we have a very good opportunity to – I'm going for the record on talking too, sorry – that we'll have an opportunity to optimize all of those costs.
02:58:12.32 Herb Weiner you
02:58:12.50 Mary Wagner Thank you.

Amen.
02:58:23.32 Jonathon Goldman Thank you.
02:58:23.84 Herb Weiner Why can't I talk like that? Mr. Mayor, I have a question.
02:58:26.29 Linda Pfeifer Mr. Mayor, I have a question.
02:58:27.74 Jonathon Goldman you
02:58:27.81 Herb Weiner Thank you.
02:58:27.83 Linda Pfeifer Okay, yeah.
02:58:27.91 Herb Weiner Thank you.
02:58:27.98 Jonathon Goldman Thank you.
02:58:28.77 Herb Weiner Thank you.
02:58:28.97 Herb Weiner Yeah.
02:58:29.02 Jonathon Goldman Yeah.
02:58:29.26 Herb Weiner you you
02:58:29.56 Linda Pfeifer So I heard a reference to it took us six months and that it's been just 20 days longer than the 120 days.
02:58:29.65 Herb Weiner Thank you.
02:58:29.67 Herb Weiner Thank you.
02:58:29.70 Jonathon Goldman Thank you.
02:58:29.72 Herb Weiner So I think...
02:58:30.14 Herb Weiner I heard.
02:58:37.44 Linda Pfeifer with respect to the resident cards, but have we launched those yet?

done.
02:58:43.99 Jonathon Goldman Right.

They are not done. I have a scope, and I think I mentioned this the last time that we discussed it at Council. I have a scope of services from May Park that, in my judgment, is 99.9% there. But frankly, I've been focused on tonight's issue and a number of other issues as, you know, not that they're necessarily higher priorities, but they're milestones that have to be met before, you know, we can get on with that subsequent development. Thank you. We have committed to deliver resident cards with this spring parking season, however, given Council's acceptance of the decision.
02:59:16.09 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.
02:59:26.70 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.

Well, yeah, thank you. My concern is that I, you know, again, I had expected the resident cards to be implemented I think that just for the record, I was not anticipating, I wasn't expecting residents to receive citations.

talked about a billing structure where if they went over the three hours they would be billed, which is what is currently happening, I mean, in the old system.
02:59:56.12 Herb Weiner Thank you.
02:59:56.13 Jonathon Goldman They were given amnesty. I apologize for the fact that we haven't delivered those yet.

Council Member.
03:00:02.56 Herb Weiner Thank you.
03:00:02.60 Carolyn Ford .
03:00:02.60 Jonathon Goldman Absolutely.
03:00:02.65 Herb Weiner Thank you.
03:00:02.82 Carolyn Ford Thank you.
03:00:02.85 Jonathon Goldman Thank you.
03:00:02.93 Carolyn Ford Thank you.

Yes, are we in the discussion now? No. Can we be? Okay. No. I just have a comment. No, I haven't gone to. Okay.
03:00:07.42 Herb Weiner I just said the comment. No, I haven't gone to. Okay. At this time here, any public comment? We're getting a lot of public comment tonight here. Okay. We'll bring it back up. Okay.
03:00:11.03 Carolyn Ford Thank you.
03:00:16.26 Carolyn Ford Okay.

okay yes i would just like to say that i'm happy to hear that a park has provided more services than they had signed up for i think that shows a good working relationship with the city i would i do think that mr zadek makes a point though i think that what would be what i would like to see going forward for phase two is a project plan with milestones and deliverables. And I would like to see definitely, and this is probably in your plan already, but I would like to see that we have the residence cards, we have the commuter cards, we have all of that together and the system's functioning very well before we expand it to the parking meters. But I think the project plan with milestones will help us as a city council to realize what's going on and to have a better feel for it.

Just oops.
03:01:22.82 Jonathan Leone Thank you.

Just drill my microphone.

Just quickly, there's 100 pages of specifications, a roadmap to completion of this, including the very, very, very detailed information here. If Mr. Zadok were inclined to read it, he would probably revoke his email. So I would say that I think they did a good job of fulfilling that. It took them 20 days longer to do it. The resident cards were not part of this agreement.
03:01:28.76 Herb Weiner Specifications?
03:01:33.55 Herb Weiner Yeah.
03:01:41.74 Mary Wagner .
03:01:41.79 Herb Weiner Oh, yeah.
03:01:41.87 Mary Wagner I would say that I think they
03:01:49.52 Jonathan Leone And going forward, we'll have a program for the resident cars. I'm sure they'll prepare a scope of work, and we can bring it back to the council and show it to us. That'll be terrific, and I bet they'll make it.
03:01:53.80 Unknown Thank you.
03:01:59.81 Carolyn Ford Okay, a project plan is all I'm going to say. That's fine. Yeah, perfect.
03:02:02.09 Jonathan Leone Thank you.
03:02:02.24 Herb Weiner Okay.
03:02:03.44 Carolyn Ford Thank you.
03:02:03.45 Herb Weiner Thank you.
03:02:03.50 Jonathan Leone Thank you.
03:02:03.54 Carolyn Ford you
03:02:03.62 Herb Weiner Thank you.
03:02:03.76 Carolyn Ford Thank you.
03:02:04.18 Herb Weiner All right. Are we done?
03:02:04.43 Carolyn Ford Thank you.

Yeah.
03:02:07.83 Herb Weiner Okay.
03:02:08.30 Mike Kelly you I'll make the motion just to do a couple things for the record. Jonathan, you got the comment earlier about the, and you're on it as far as alternatives for the maintenance of this communications thing. So great. I would suggest that one way around kind of the problems with the,
03:02:08.99 Herb Weiner Thank you.
03:02:09.07 Linda Pfeifer .
03:02:09.16 Herb Weiner THE FAMILY.
03:02:09.33 Herb Weiner motion.
03:02:10.75 Linda Pfeifer record so okay
03:02:27.97 Mike Kelly whatever the resolution that affects the downtown parking lots is to talk to the ferry about placing repeaters and what they're going to put on their property that they lease from us but technically can do whatever they want with. So that may be a way to solve a problem that residents have brought up about their own cell phone service, let alone cutting the cost for the city.
03:02:40.48 Mary Wagner I don't know.
03:02:51.26 Mike Kelly And then the last one, once the resident program is up and running and everything's cool and it's all functioning well, one thing the city might want to consider down the road is expanding that Thank you.
03:03:01.49 Herb Weiner Mm-hmm.
03:03:01.88 Mike Kelly Thank you.

free parking to a little greater geography to our neighbors to encourage them to come downtown and and shop in that Smyrne City and the houseboat community who have expressed that desire over the years to... Yeah, to be filled out of it. To feel a part of both our community as well as patronize our community.
03:03:16.64 Herb Weiner Thank you.
03:03:16.66 Jonathan Leone Bye.
03:03:16.81 Herb Weiner Thank you.
03:03:24.59 Jonathan Leone All right. I move that we adopt a resolution to the City Council of City of Sausalito accepting the parking and revenue control systems, parks, equipment installed in the City Parking Lops 1, 2, 3, and 4 by APARC system as complete, authorizing the City Manager to release retention and authorizing issuance of purchase order for one year of communications fees for the equipment and directing staff to implement Phase 2 of the project with Carolyn's proviso to give us a work plan.
03:03:28.44 Mike Kelly Thank you.
03:03:28.47 Charles Melton So...
03:03:49.14 Jonathan Leone Thank you.
03:03:49.21 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.
03:03:49.40 Jonathan Leone Okay.
03:03:49.61 Herb Weiner Thank you.
03:03:49.99 Jonathan Leone you
03:03:50.04 Herb Weiner Yeah.
03:03:50.48 Herb Weiner So
03:03:50.68 Herb Weiner Thank you.
03:03:50.78 Herb Weiner and the
03:03:50.85 Herb Weiner Thank you.
03:03:51.49 Jonathan Leone Thank you.
03:03:51.50 Herb Weiner Thank you.
03:03:51.57 Jonathan Leone you
03:03:51.81 Herb Weiner Thank you.
03:03:51.94 Jonathan Leone Thank you.
03:03:52.50 Herb Weiner Thank you.
03:03:52.60 Jonathan Leone you
03:03:52.65 Herb Weiner Thank you.
03:03:52.92 Linda Pfeifer And I'd like to make a comment before we vote because I didn't get my chance. Anyway. If I may. Yes. Thank you. So there was a comment earlier that we didn't actually read this stuff. And there were a lot of, it was filled with details and specs and everything. And what I'm, I did read this. And what we have here is we have, you know, a Siemens, very, very voluminous, you know, Siemens guide with details around features
03:03:52.94 Herb Weiner Thank you.
03:03:52.97 Herb Weiner and
03:03:53.02 Herb Weiner .
03:03:57.82 Herb Weiner I'm gonna do it anyway.

Yes.
03:04:28.19 Linda Pfeifer you know, and descriptions and specs around features, but in terms of a project plan with milestones, concrete milestones, the closest thing we have to that is what Mr. Goldman had pointed out in his Q&A sheet, which is those three-page document in the beginning, which lists unit prices and the specs within the 120-day timeframe. So I'm kind of on the fence about voting for it. I applaud staff's work on this. I mean mean it's great for going towards this automated system. I'm just disappointed with the the resident card progress the commuter card and and I'm just concerned that I won't, you know, am I going to see this and is it going to have the features we all, asked of the vendors when we interviewed them during that decision making process.

kind of torn.
03:05:30.16 Herb Weiner kind of torment.

Yeah, well, it's part of technology. I can only tell you when I put in a whole new system, when I put in a car wash, even down here in Sausalito, we had the system up in a week, and it took six months to get the technology to fit the equipment. So these things happen, and as we said, this is a made-to-specification type of process down there with that parking system. So it was kind of new in a way for the parking people to...
03:05:35.62 Linda Pfeifer Mm-hmm.
03:06:03.10 Herb Weiner Mm-hmm.
03:06:04.97 Herb Weiner There's an iron there somewhere. And I think they've They filled what we desired. It might have taken a little long, but it's like anything else. I'd rather have it right.

and take the time, then have it in total disarray. We have a motion. We have a second. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Opposed?
03:06:28.48 Herb Weiner Aye. Aye.
03:06:31.97 Herb Weiner Thank you, Jonathan.

Okay, next item, we're going now to 6E. Bring that back in, is that correct?
03:06:42.67 Linda Pfeifer Yes, yes.
03:06:43.85 Herb Weiner Okay.

And...

you And 60 was the approval, third amendment to employment agreement for the city manager. Thank you for coming, by the way.
03:07:00.77 Herb Weiner .
03:07:02.06 Herb Weiner See you in the lot.
03:07:03.46 Herb Weiner Yeah.

Thank you.
03:07:05.57 Linda Pfeifer with your resident card yeah
03:07:07.14 Herb Weiner with your resident that yet
03:07:09.50 Unknown Thank you.
03:07:17.82 Unknown He'll be back.
03:07:17.89 Linda Pfeifer THE END OF THE END OF THE
03:07:17.95 Herb Weiner He'll be back.
03:07:31.39 Herb Weiner Thank you.

Thank you.
03:07:34.41 Jonathan Leone Thank you.
03:07:34.52 Herb Weiner Thank you.
03:07:34.59 Jonathan Leone Thank you.
03:07:38.58 Herb Weiner Thank you.

Thank you.

you Thank you.
03:07:41.97 Herb Weiner Thank you.
03:07:45.41 Linda Pfeifer you
03:07:45.66 Herb Weiner Thank you.
03:07:45.68 Mike Kelly Thank you.
03:07:48.30 Linda Pfeifer Okay, so... I'm not right. So, I pulled item 4A because I had expressed earlier, I appreciate our great city manager, I appreciate all of the work he does.
03:07:50.35 Mike Kelly All right.

Thank you.

you Thank you.
03:08:10.59 Linda Pfeifer Um, And at the same time, I am conflicted about in this environment and with the sacrifices we are making and the belt tightening all around with respect to, you know, what we're passing here. It just, it feels a little bit robust to me. And that's why I pulled it. We're looking at, let's see.

Uh...
03:08:46.41 Mike Kelly I'll just read the four changes because it should go
03:08:46.45 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.

just OK. I'll do this.
03:08:52.39 Mike Kelly people should understand him whether they're listening or we should ask for us how many people have actually listened to these things now that he can track them. That there's four changes to the city manager's contract. One is the extension of a cooling off period which essentially if there's a new
03:08:57.89 Jonathon Goldman Thank you.
03:08:58.04 Mary Wagner Thank you.
03:09:11.69 Mike Kelly Council, that there's a period of time before you can exchange, it's extended from 60 days to 90 days until you can not renew the city manager's contract, which is an at-will employment. So technically at any time you can You can relieve the city manager of his burden. The second one is an increase in the equivalent of severance to a year's salary. If you do fire the city manager, not for cause. Yeah, not for cause. And that is in the second one. The third one is in that both of those two have been, those were requested by the city manager and they were run by an outside recruiting firm that the city has used for other recruiting as to see where the marketplace was for those type of clauses.

and those were adjusted accordingly. And the third one is an increase in the city manager's pay.
03:10:14.79 Linda Pfeifer THE END OF THE END OF THE
03:10:15.87 Mike Kelly Um...

by $842 a month to get the city manager at the median of the city managers in Marin County.

which is our stated goal for all employees to be at the median so we can attract and retain qualified employees. And the last one is the function of the agreement that was not fulfilled by the city for the first year of the city manager's employment.

which was a performance incentive that was part of the city manager's contract at that time.

which is 2.5% of pay or $4,870 for that salary at that point in time.
03:10:57.23 Carolyn Ford And isn't of Mr. Mayor.

Isn't there another new provision that it takes four council members to dismiss?

Yes, Mary?
03:11:10.34 Mary Wagner That was an existing provision in the agreement. All it does is add another 30 days. It, the, the provision is what's called the cooling off period.

It's the provision following a city council election that it would take a four-fifths vote to remove the city manager Currently, that provision is applicable for a 60-day period following an election. All the amendment does is extend it to a 90-day period.
03:11:34.37 Carolyn Ford I see. So three months.
03:11:34.89 Mary Wagner So three months instead of two. And if I may, I just wanted to remind the Council and for the benefit of the listening audience, Um, the city staff did go out and ask one of the leading employment employee recruiting firms or management recruiting firms, Bob Murray and Associates, about the 12-month severance provision, and it was their response that that's a normal provision to see in city manager contracts in California, that it's not beyond what other city managers are receiving in their agreements.
03:12:09.52 Carolyn Ford Thank you.

Well, then the only other thing that I have to say about this, because I wasn't here when this was discussed last time, is, well, Adam, I think you're doing a great job. But the only other thing that I can say is I think that Thank you.

It's not quite fair. We have restricted the employees, the other employees, to their current wages, no raises for the next two years. And yet we're giving our city manager a raise. And it doesn't strike me as being a good management.
03:12:54.53 Herb Weiner Let me jump in a little on this. Manage is my back alley.
03:12:56.79 Carolyn Ford message.
03:13:05.21 Herb Weiner We're not in a position, look, we're not cutting services. And we're not cutting people working here. So we're not.

in as bad a shape as other community.

But I do know one thing with managers, and I did it in my own businesses, all of them, is that your manager runs the show. He runs the city. He runs my business. He is the key person that is able to go out and be able to talk to his employees to even hold them at their rate but it's very, very important. I just came back from Sacramento.

And.

I wouldn't trade him for anybody that I saw really up there. And some of them, and I'm a pretty good judge of character on that.
03:13:56.12 Linda Pfeifer Yes.

Sure.

But that takes a mic.
03:14:00.56 Herb Weiner You might too.
03:14:01.72 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.
03:14:01.72 Herb Weiner Well, if you remember, look, and I can only give it as an example, even in the sports world, I mean, Lincecum hadn't finished his contract, and yet,
03:14:01.79 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.

Thank you.
03:14:02.14 Herb Weiner Thank you.
03:14:02.16 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.
03:14:02.19 Herb Weiner Thank you.
03:14:02.26 Linda Pfeifer YOU WANT TO BE ABLE TO
03:14:02.43 Herb Weiner Thank you.
03:14:02.53 Linda Pfeifer Yeah.
03:14:02.97 Herb Weiner I know.
03:14:03.39 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.
03:14:03.41 Herb Weiner Look, at E.

Thank you.
03:14:11.69 Herb Weiner he got an increase because because the value was there and I'm telling you as I said and keep in mind you know we
03:14:19.00 Herb Weiner .
03:14:22.12 Herb Weiner You want to keep...

good city managers.

Now when I started in this office, almost a little over four years ago.

The time that a city manager would spend in a city was five years.

And here we are sitting here four years later and the average time is two and a half years.

So it just shows you what's happening as far as these city managers bounce around because some of them are not being They're not being thought out in the in what they're doing and what their work is.

I think you get what you pay for.
03:15:01.93 Jonathan Leone Uh...

I was mayor when Adam was hired and went through the recruiting process. And one of the many strengths that Adam had, being from Sausalito, was a big one. His ability to manage the departments that he'd been able to manage was another one.

But he had limited experience and no experience as a city manager, and he was really a bit of an unknown quantity in that regard. Not to me. Not to you, but we had a couple of high-powered manager types that were competing for the job. And...
03:15:32.56 Herb Weiner Love to me.
03:15:42.60 Jonathan Leone So one of the concessions that was made, not necessarily one I fully agreed with, one concession was made to pay him a smaller salary, beginning salary, than an otherwise qualified city manager would get.

with the proviso that if he excelled,
03:16:00.44 Mike Kelly Don't tell him that. Oh yeah? Yeah, no?
03:16:01.52 Jonathan Leone Well, you know, it's got to be said. With the proviso that if he excelled at the job and pulled this, you know, what was then a desperate,
03:16:04.12 Mike Kelly you
03:16:12.59 Jonathan Leone and disparate both city staff that was completely almost dysfunctional pull it together and bring the city under tight management and control that we would reward him and bring him along so he would be compensated as if and though he were the manager that we intended to hire at the beginning. And that's all we're doing here. One is a contractual obligation that we promised him a 2.5% bonus.

and the other is a modest salary increase that gets him and keeps him in the middle, not at the top, not in the three quarters, but at the middle of Marin County. By the way, He has suddenly become one of the most experienced managers in Marin County by virtue of the trade in three years.
03:16:59.97 Mary Wagner I wish you had a good one.
03:17:03.06 Jonathan Leone And if you talk to anybody, just go out and talk to other council members and people who see Adam operate on a day-to-day basis.

And then go talk to his staff, and you will find that there's one constant theme that comes up that he's with it, on top of it, understanding, good leader. And that's what we wanted and that's what we got. And I say we compensate him for it.
03:17:24.71 Carolyn Ford Well, I didn't know that council had hired our city manager at a lower rate and that you had made that promise. So, okay. I... Well, this is the promise. No, it wasn't the promise.
03:17:37.96 Herb Weiner This is the promise. I thought it wasn't a promise. No. It's a paper.
03:17:40.71 Mike Kelly you
03:17:40.76 Carolyn Ford Thank you.
03:17:40.78 Mike Kelly Thank you.
03:17:40.88 Carolyn Ford Yeah.
03:17:40.96 Mike Kelly It's a paper performance.
03:17:43.07 Herb Weiner And don't forget, this is what happens when we were there for four years, or three and
03:17:44.66 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.
03:17:51.16 Herb Weiner You came on last year and you came on two years ago, so you were privy to these things. And I'm never known for really explaining things totally correct or complete. So I should have really told him.
03:17:57.57 Carolyn Ford Yes, and I was...
03:18:12.96 Mike Kelly Thank you.
03:18:12.97 Herb Weiner Thank you.
03:18:13.01 Carolyn Ford No, it's not at the last meeting, Herb, so that's, yeah.
03:18:14.04 Mike Kelly Bye.
03:18:14.12 Herb Weiner No, it's not.
03:18:15.94 Mike Kelly I'm glad. I asked what it was. We have discussed this in prior closed session meetings where you were in attendance.
03:18:22.19 Herb Weiner I'm going to go to public comment and then we'll bring it back. Oh, yes. Public comment. Is that Vicki Nichols? Yes, it is.
03:18:22.20 Mike Kelly I'm gonna go to Fred.
03:18:25.21 Mary Wagner Oh, yes.
03:18:26.95 Mike Kelly Okay.
03:18:27.40 Herb Weiner you
03:19:07.04 Herb Weiner Thank you.

Thank you.
03:19:11.43 Herb Weiner Okay.
03:19:12.68 Mike Kelly Just to clarify a couple of things, just so it is that the Carolyn's point earlier was actually a very valid one about staff and raises, and that one I think is now his problem. And what we did as a city three years ago, two years ago, where we went through all positions and brought them up to median and made sure they were classified correctly so that people were getting paid appropriately for their job and at the median in the county.

not for the county but for the geography we are in so that which is essentially the process we're doing for him at this moment in time.

And, So I have a similar point of view that there is a, you're setting a tone, but now that is the Adam and the negotiating team's challenge in dealing with the our labor unions buying large, our issues with our labor unions are not related to salary.

that they're the pension obligations.

because they're getting paid They haven't taken reductions which many other staff in this geography have taken over the last two years. So if there was an equity adjustment, Chances are some of them would have been adjusted down.

versus up, which is the case of the city managers in the Marinian, same geography.

So as far as equity goes, that'll be a challenge. I believe that the idea is to start that discussion and review after June when it'll be a year towards the next contract renewal for our unions. And that will go through that same process to get them up to median if that has changed and deal with it if it's the opposite, if they're above median.

The one thing, and I don't want to sound like her, but I have learned in managing people is there's a big problem of Pennywise Pound Foolish with money and people.

you don't want to overpay people, but if you have quality people, you want to retain them and keep them working hard. And that is what we're paying Adam to do and other staff members to do, and if we're We're also not overpaying, given that we're at the median. And we've had – we checked in on that from both countywide and with the recruiter to make sure we're at the market.
03:21:46.98 Linda Pfeifer And I'll just weigh in and say that my feeling in pulling this was that Adam, like I said, I appreciate you. I think you do a great job.

At the same time, we're, with the staff taking you know, not having the raises and everything with the recession.

It just, I wish that there was some negotiation with, you know, respect to some of these, the monetary, you know, just because of the economic environment, frankly.

So that's really where I'm coming from.
03:22:31.63 Herb Weiner I'll end it real quickly by Same.

if Adam wasn't here.

And we went out and got another city manager.

I guarantee you that we would not be paying less for that city manager to come on board. It would either be the same or more. And now...
03:22:50.42 Linda Pfeifer And now, which is 30, which is
03:22:52.66 Herb Weiner Which is $30,000. That's what it costs us to go out and get to recruit.

Thank you.
03:22:58.68 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.
03:22:58.70 Herb Weiner Thank you.
03:22:58.72 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.
03:22:58.74 Herb Weiner What's so easy?
03:22:59.46 Linda Pfeifer .
03:22:59.98 Herb Weiner Okay. Well, I know, but you know.
03:23:00.03 Herb Weiner Okay. Well, I know, but.
03:23:03.97 Herb Weiner I need to include third amendment to a part of the city manager.
03:23:04.69 Herb Weiner Thank you.

I move the conclusion.
03:23:07.76 Herb Weiner Why did you say that before I would have done that? Okay. Second? Second. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Opposed? No. Stubborn.
03:23:10.78 Herb Weiner I'm sorry.

Okay.

So, continue.
03:23:15.93 Linda Pfeifer Bye.
03:23:16.32 Linda Pfeifer Bye.
03:23:16.37 Linda Pfeifer you
03:23:16.54 Mike Kelly Thank you.
03:23:17.65 Linda Pfeifer No.
03:23:19.66 Herb Weiner Okay.
03:23:19.81 Linda Pfeifer I'll just show that for the record.
03:23:22.07 Herb Weiner All right. OK. Thank you, Adam. You deserve it.
03:23:22.29 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.

Thank you.
03:23:39.94 Adam Politzer A few minutes of fame. I had a lot of minutes of fame with our mayor up in Sacramento.

And I think he is famous there.

Definitely famous with all the other new mayors and new council members. And I think the governor will remember the mayor as well.

As I'm alluding to there, the Mayor Weiner and I went to Sacramento Wednesday, Thursday, Friday last week to attend the League of California Cities new mayors and council member academy which Jonathan Leon and Linda Pfeiffer and Carolyn Ford have also had the great pleasure of attending with me the past three years, over the past three years and again, not just for the new mayors and new council members but City Managers Group. There are different presenters each time.

new information that's shared so it's always valuable for me to go as well many repeat council members that were going because they'd been two years ago and they also wanted just to attend for a refresher and then as I've always stated the networking because it's a small group of about 200 This was sold out there was people that showed up and were not able to attend because they hadn't registered in advance but so it was you know again the opportunity to meet the newly elected have something in common here what's going on in other communities that are very similar to things that we that we are all facing especially in infrastructure pension discussions and retaining and hiring good employees across the board from the line staff all the way up to the management team so I think that I really appreciate the mayor taking the time to join me and I hope that he benefited as much as I did. In that line, I'll be at the City Manager's Conference in Monterey end of next week, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday of next week or the week after, the early part of February.

you're all welcome to come join me it's not as fun because it's basically the band of depression because city managers at the end of the day have to deal with all of this and work with councils work with the public work with staff and try to keep everyone happy so it's our opportunity to kind of hold hands and say we're in this together and which is also valuable because there's a lot of senior and veteran managers that have not yet retired and some that have retired that come because it's an opportunity for them to stay current and but it's very helpful for me to establish these relationships so there's people I can call on when we face things that I I don't have the experience to deal with at this point so it's it's very valuable a couple things tomorrow night is the MCC MC dinner in Mill Valley look forward to seeing you folks there and then we talked about the strategic planning session and we asked for feedback on Mondays and Fridays that folks weren't available. We got some feedback from Council, and it looks like the two dates that we are looking to hold our retreat are either Monday, March 25th, or Friday, March 28th. So based on the feedback we got, that's the soonest we can meet.
03:27:25.80 Herb Weiner Thank you.
03:27:27.72 Adam Politzer sorry thank you the yeah friday the 25th monday the 28th so those are the dates that we're looking at if i hear nothing i'll move to the staff meeting tomorrow morning or tomorrow afternoon and confirm that that those dates work for staff we know those dates work for our facilitator so So I'd like to nail that down before we get too far out into the spring.

This is everybody, the managers. This is as we prepare for the budget. So the timing is still very good because we will have our midyear budget later in February so we'll know where we are. We'll have our strategic planning session to talk about where we're going. We'll do our priority calendar to organize what's most important to us, and then we'll do our budget to actually say this is what we're going to do. So in terms of the timing, if we can at all possible make the 25th or the 28th work, we will be in good shape as we go into that next phase of running the team.
03:28:44.10 Adam Politzer Well, you folks are number one. So if you have a preference of Friday, which is traditionally when we do it,
03:28:56.00 Adam Politzer Friday the 25th.
03:29:07.77 Adam Politzer Okay. I will...

I will confirm that in the next 48 hours or sooner but please circle that and reserve the day and we'll give you the logistics in the near future. One other comment here on PG&E and I know that many of the council members have been hearing from community members. I know that residents including Ms. Nichols here in the audience has brought it to the Council's attention. Staff has every intention to bring this item back to the Council. We've been waiting for Assemblyman Huffman's report on the health and safety concerns that have been raised. That report initially was supposed to come out in early November and we have tentatively put it on every agenda since and then removed it when the report hasn't yet been brought forward. So we are in contact with Assemblyman Huffman's office. BG&E has agreed to come regardless if it's good news or bad news for them so that they're at least here in the audience to answer any specific questions. And at that time, once that report is brought forward, we've had a report on the – by the PUC on the equipment itself if it's actually monitoring the information correctly and that report did support that the equipment was not giving false readings and then the health and safety concerns came forward and And P has done a report on that but we think that the credibility from Assemblyman Tuffman is a little bit more neutral. I think some folks have lost confidence in the PUC so having someone outside of that circle looking in on the interests of California residents and especially here in our area is going to be helpful. So that's when we'll bring it forward. If the council would like to give us direction different than hearing the report at that meeting, give us further direction on actions they would like staff to consider, we would be all ears for that. I just caution and ask that there is, again, a lot of stuff in the paper. There's a lot of information.

and information.

and various groups on both sides of the aisle that have opinions on this. I think recently you saw that the county has taken their action and then the sheriff came out and said that he wasn't going to enforce it. And then after that the DA came out and said that they were not going to make the sheriff enforce it. And I'm not opposed to us taking action to do something differently, but but I ask that we wait until we get Assemblyman Huffman's report which I hope is is is out soon and that we can have that on either the 1st or the 15th and for for council to review and then provide additional feedback so I just thought thought it was important that the council and the public knows that we're aware, we're listening, we're hearing, and we're paying attention to our fellows, staff in the county and also our folks up and down the state that are taking various actions on this, and we'll bring you a more comprehensive report when we come back to council later next month. That concludes my report. Happy to answer any questions the council may have.
03:32:43.83 Herb Weiner And again,
03:32:45.14 Carolyn Ford Yes, I do.
03:32:46.59 Herb Weiner I knew you'd have a question.
03:32:49.44 Carolyn Ford .

We can't get out of here too early, her. Just one quick question. Where do we stand on hiring our new police chief?
03:32:50.96 Herb Weiner you
03:32:51.05 Herb Weiner Thank you.
03:32:51.20 Herb Weiner Thank you.
03:32:59.65 Adam Politzer Excellent question. I'm going to start bringing gold stars for the good questions. Thank you.
03:33:01.04 Carolyn Ford it
03:33:06.35 Herb Weiner but I like the answer.
03:33:08.23 Adam Politzer Yeah.

I think that I shared at the last council meeting and probably every council meeting since prior to this one once the news was made public prematurely in the newspaper before our candidate had cleared background medical and psychiatric review and at this point I am anticipating receiving she passed background with glowing stars and up at the conference many folks that know her and many folks that knew that I was making this decision came up to me and told me that our community is going to be very pleased with our new chief and that I had hit a home run on that selection and I feel that I felt that from the moment she came through the interview doors and I think that the staff both at the police department, the management team and myself are getting more and more excited for that day. Her official day will be on Tuesday the 22nd, Monday the 21st. Captain Roebacher pointed out was the original date that she was going to appear.

but that's a day off so we decided that she didn't have to come to work when no one else was going to be here. So she'll officially start on the 22nd. I will be out of the country the 17th, the 16th of February. I'm going with my mother and sister to Australia. So my mother looks like it may be her last trip to see her family and so when I come back on March 7th we will have a community event a meet and greet opportunity for the community to hear all about her we look like we'll be doing that down at the bay model so that it's at a place that's large enough and we will also do the official swearing in at that time so it's kind of a soft grand opening on the 22nd she'll get to come in without worrying about me taking up all her time on orientering her on the management side and she'll get an opportunity to spend time with her department and and then when I come back we will do the official community event. I have not got the hard copies of her other background things, medical and the psych, but I have been told that those have been performed and that notice is due this week saying that she has passed. And so I've – for the record, I've talked to Mark Prado and I will be talking to Jessica. Now that it's going to be official, we want a big story and we want a story that she's quoted in and a story that you folks are quoted in and members that were on the panel that helped select be quoted on because it's a big deal it's a very big deal it's not that often you get to hire a chief it's not this often you get to hire chief of this caliber and I think that it's an opportunity to celebrate that here in our community so mark was very open to that and excited to do that story. So in the next week or so, you may get a call. Please return that call. This is a good one. And get your name in the paper in the anticipation of our next police chief here in the city of Sausalito.
03:36:37.46 Herb Weiner Yeah.
03:36:37.48 Herb Weiner and
03:36:43.11 Herb Weiner I'm not.

Okay.
03:36:47.26 Herb Weiner Thank you.
03:36:47.67 Herb Weiner Thank you.

Okay, next item. Thank you, Adam.

Just a comment before on going up to Sacramento.

Uh-huh.

It's really interesting. We think of California as the big cities, San Francisco, L.A., Sacramento, San Diego, San Jose. But when you really go to these meetings up there, you'll find out California is really made of all small. The majority of it is very small communities. So it was really eye-opening for me for that.

With that, I'll go on to, I'm going to make some appointments to the boards.

Um, Let's see, I'll go down here. ABAG will be Vice Mayor Kelly.

Business BAC, Business Advisory Committee, will be myself and Vice Mayor Kelly.

God.

Um, I want this time here, I'm going to change it. I'm going to go on carb this time and Council Member Leon will be my alternate.

um, Hospitality, I have Vice Mayor Kelly and Council Member Ford.

Uh...

the Housing Element Ad Hoc Committee. This is going to be a little change I'm making.

And how I'm doing that.

or how I would like to do that is, Council Member Pfeiffer and Vice Mayor Kelly will be the...

liaison But I'm making a change in that I'm going to be putting Stan Bear as the chairperson of that.

And I think I've said this before, and if I haven't, I really would like to have only not have council members be chairpersons on any of these committees. I think it should be...

the members of that committee. So with that, the next will be I'd like to put a council member Carolyn Ford and on the Marin Telecommunications Agency.
03:39:04.19 Herb Weiner Thank you.
03:39:04.39 Herb Weiner Thank you.
03:39:05.40 Carolyn Ford MTC.
03:39:06.70 Herb Weiner Thank you.
03:39:06.72 Herb Weiner Well, are you...
03:39:07.97 Herb Weiner Thank you.
03:39:08.41 Mike Kelly Thank you.
03:39:09.47 Carolyn Ford OMTA.
03:39:10.42 Herb Weiner Yeah. So now you get MTC and MTA. So you're fine.

We'll talk about it later.

And the alternate will be Jonathan Leon on that. Okay. Okay. Let's see. Where is this? On parks and recs, I'm going to stay on there, Mayor Winey and Jonathan Leon. Okay. And I think that's...
03:39:19.54 Herb Weiner Okay.

Where is he?
03:39:34.95 Herb Weiner And for now, I think that's, for now, I'll let it be. Okay. Our future agenda items.
03:39:45.14 Unknown Mr. Mayor Devin, did you get all those?
03:39:46.06 Herb Weiner I don't know.
03:39:48.16 Unknown Yeah.
03:39:48.43 Linda Pfeifer Yeah, I have a couple.
03:39:48.77 Unknown you I have a question.
03:39:52.74 Herb Weiner Notice I was looking at it with you when I was saying that. Because you knew.
03:39:54.73 Linda Pfeifer Because you do.

So, I would be... Come on, you've got two minutes.
03:39:58.56 Herb Weiner Come on, you get two minutes.
03:40:01.11 Linda Pfeifer I guess I would go back with the BAC, you know, the update on the economic study or Again, just clarification around these zoning designations and the Marinship.

the minutes of October 6th that I wrote. And at the time I was told that that was an error in the minutes and you know,
03:40:24.67 Jonathan Leone you know Well, BAC is, they're gonna come forward with a whole report.
03:40:29.31 Linda Pfeifer Okay, because I know we voted on this economic study and
03:40:29.32 Jonathan Leone Okay.

Thank you.
03:40:32.41 Herb Weiner Oh yeah.

being compliant. And it was my
03:40:34.49 Linda Pfeifer And it was my understanding that they were not going to look at you know, they were going to stay within the zoning designations currently in the Marin ship. And then there were minutes that said,
03:40:42.05 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.
03:40:42.08 Mike Kelly and then there were-
03:40:42.82 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.
03:40:44.14 Linda Pfeifer To the contrary.
03:40:44.19 Mike Kelly to the club.

I need to clarify that the business advisory committee as a group can bring up whatever it wants. Robert Eiler was told that that is not a tool for his study to review.

He's going to come back with a whole bunch of things that may or may not fit your existing zoning set up, but he is not going to be charged with coming back yet.
03:41:13.10 Jonathan Leone He's not looking at his own. He's just looking at what economic and work
03:41:18.75 Linda Pfeifer Well, that is completely different from what I had voted on for that economic study was that they would stay within the current zoning designations of the marinship.
03:41:29.23 Debbie (City Clerk) Marin ship
03:41:30.26 Linda Pfeifer in looking at the maritime services and the types of industries that would be there.
03:41:34.36 Herb Weiner Thank you.
03:41:34.38 Herb Weiner Hmm.
03:41:34.59 Herb Weiner Thank you.
03:41:34.66 Herb Weiner Thank you.
03:41:35.54 Linda Pfeifer So this is a big U-turn. No, this is very different.
03:41:35.71 Carolyn Ford So this is a big U-turn.
03:41:38.42 Herb Weiner We didn't define... No, this is very different. I don't believe he was confined to that, but you have to realize that this is a joint effort with, you know, don't forget the Chamber of Commerce put up as much money as we put And I think that, look, we've been at these meetings, and I really... Go ahead.
03:41:59.28 Mike Kelly Why don't we just get some clarification from him.
03:42:01.10 Mary Wagner Mr. Mayor.

Thank you.
03:42:01.98 Mike Kelly Thank you.
03:42:02.03 Mary Wagner I'm sorry.
03:42:02.14 Mike Kelly I'm sorry.

Oh.

Thank you.
03:42:03.23 Herb Weiner Thank you.
03:42:03.25 Mike Kelly I wish.
03:42:03.38 Herb Weiner I wish.
03:42:03.81 Linda Pfeifer We can't talk about this. But I understand.
03:42:03.86 Mary Wagner Thank you.
03:42:03.87 Mike Kelly Bye.
03:42:03.91 Mary Wagner Thank you.

But I understand from Vice Mayor Kelly's comment that it's coming back to you as a full report. So it's essentially already a future agenda item.
03:42:09.24 Herb Weiner Thank you.
03:42:09.37 Linda Pfeifer THE END OF THE END OF THE
03:42:09.42 Herb Weiner I'm not sure.
03:42:09.71 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.
03:42:10.03 Herb Weiner Thank you.
03:42:10.17 Herb Weiner and
03:42:10.57 Herb Weiner Bye.
03:42:10.64 Mike Kelly Thank you.
03:42:10.88 Herb Weiner Thank you.
03:42:10.93 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.
03:42:11.01 Herb Weiner THE FAMILY IS
03:42:11.18 Mike Kelly Yes.

My understanding is that he's supposed to be giving an update at some point in time, so you should ask for some clarification of what he's doing regarding that. And he was, I think Herb and I both told him that that was not what he was supposed to be reviewing, whether he comes back with some, and part of his modeling is something else. but maybe we just we need to clarify that because he was the committee and he were told that that is not his else. Yeah, exactly. But maybe we need to clarify that because he was the committee and he were told that that is not his goal.
03:42:20.27 Mary Wagner Thank you.
03:42:20.31 Linda Pfeifer Okay.
03:42:21.69 Mary Wagner It would.
03:42:32.49 Herb Weiner Thank you.
03:42:32.51 Herb Weiner Thank you.
03:42:32.53 Herb Weiner And part of his modeling is something else.
03:42:35.28 Herb Weiner Thank you.
03:42:39.82 Jonathan Leone you
03:42:39.88 Linda Pfeifer not
03:42:40.15 Jonathan Leone Thank you.
03:42:44.44 Jonathan Leone He's looking more at mix and not at specifics.
03:42:48.95 Herb Weiner Specifics.
03:42:53.98 Herb Weiner Yeah, no.
03:42:54.63 Unknown Thank you.

Thank you.
03:42:57.20 Jonathan Leone It's pretty.
03:42:57.53 Unknown down.

So I think
03:43:01.25 Herb Weiner Look, I'm pretty... We'll bring you back. We'll get clarification for you, number one.
03:43:02.78 Unknown Thank you.
03:43:03.04 Unknown Thank you.
03:43:03.05 Unknown Let's get some clarity. We'll bring it back.
03:43:04.98 Mike Kelly I did clarification for you, number one. I agree with Linda that that was a condition of what he was told.
03:43:12.77 Herb Weiner to do.
03:43:13.58 Carolyn Ford Thank you.
03:43:13.60 Herb Weiner Me too. And I'm pretty happy with the members of that committee, the makeup of that committee, so I think they'll do a good job.
03:43:13.92 Carolyn Ford Thank you.
03:43:23.98 Herb Weiner at guiding him. Committee reports, I'm not really going to push on that this time, but the next meeting I will start asking for some reports. I'd like to see that.

Other reports of significance? I just want to say a thank you to the Sausalito Police Department.

for what took place yesterday. There was an elderly woman that was lost And I even got in my car and drove around. And you see her all the time walking around. She has a little baseball cap. She walks in the morning. An Asian woman. You see her all the time. Oh, yeah, I see her every morning. Well, anyway, we started looking for her in the afternoon. And there happened to be a fire up on North Street. And that's what confused her. She couldn't get by that area. Got confused. And this woman ended up in Kirby Cove. That's what confused her. She couldn't get by that area. Got confused and this woman ended up in Kirby Cove. That's where she was found. Tuesday morning. Tuesday morning.
03:43:56.51 Mary Wagner Cheers.
03:44:01.83 Herb Weiner You see all the time. The President's office is here every morning. The President's office is here every morning. Well, anyway, we start.
03:44:06.72 Jonathan Leone I'm sorry.
03:44:06.74 Herb Weiner or,
03:44:20.75 Herb Weiner That's where she was found.

Oh, my God.
03:44:24.22 Herb Weiner So, I don't know if you were aware, but at my house, they were knocking on the door at 8.30 at night.
03:44:31.56 Herb Weiner Yeah, my team.
03:44:32.20 Herb Weiner Okay, asking about it.
03:44:32.90 Herb Weiner Yeah.
03:44:32.91 Herb Weiner asking about it.

you
03:44:34.06 Herb Weiner Thank you.

So kudos to the PD. They really, I mean, and how they were able to put together such a, yeah, it was terrific.
03:44:37.91 Herb Weiner I'm not.
03:44:38.38 Herb Weiner It was the next figure of Mr. Fine.
03:44:42.02 Mike Kelly Enjoy.
03:44:42.21 Linda Pfeifer put together.
03:44:42.73 Mike Kelly Thank you.
03:44:42.75 Herb Weiner It's great.
03:44:43.04 Mike Kelly Search and rescue.
03:44:44.74 Unknown you
03:44:44.79 Mike Kelly Thank you.
03:44:44.81 Unknown I heard they put the fire out in four minutes.
03:44:49.97 Mike Kelly You had to have every single fire department in Marin there. It was insane how many engines showed up. It was ridiculous.
03:44:54.34 Herb Weiner Thank you.

The engine showed up. It was ridiculous. Yeah, but one of the reasons that we learned from, unfortunately, we've had now two weather fires in general areas.
03:44:59.17 Mike Kelly Yeah, but one of the reasons
03:44:59.96 Linda Pfeifer One of the reasons
03:45:06.97 Linda Pfeifer It's not ridiculous. There's no excuse for that, for not, that you need to bring that up with Jim. He's going to pull in five departments.
03:45:13.40 Herb Weiner Yeah. More than five departments. Well, I think what happens is when they get a call from Lafayette up there in the hills like that,
03:45:19.93 Linda Pfeifer from a fire up there.
03:45:21.14 Herb Weiner Thank you.
03:45:23.52 Herb Weiner You just don't know if the wind could just, in a matter of minutes, just carry it. And to go up there lightly, it's taking a chance.

Thank you.

So anyway, I know, well, hey, I got to spend an hour because I couldn't get up. But anyway, it shows you there are too many fire departments in the area.
03:45:36.99 Unknown Thank you.
03:45:37.04 Linda Pfeifer anyway.
03:45:37.56 Unknown Thank you.
03:45:37.58 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.
03:45:37.68 Unknown Thank you.
03:45:37.71 Linda Pfeifer I know.
03:45:47.28 Herb Weiner Well, better to be safe than sorry. If your house is burning down, you're very happy to see him there. I'll tell you that.
03:45:49.83 Mary Wagner Thank you.
03:45:50.01 Unknown Thank you.
03:45:50.08 Mary Wagner Thank you.
03:45:54.84 Herb Weiner Okay, with that...

You know you're whiner.
03:45:57.64 Carolyn Ford Mayor Weiner, I have one more question. Parks and Rec, bless me, is an alternate, but I think you said Jonathan, just clarification.
03:45:58.43 Herb Weiner for work.
03:45:59.23 Herb Weiner Thank you.
03:46:05.67 Herb Weiner Yes.
03:46:07.51 Carolyn Ford Okay, and MT, I just found this thing.
03:46:10.64 Herb Weiner This thing.
03:46:13.01 Carolyn Ford Park. Yes, Park. OK. The other one?
03:46:19.17 Herb Weiner And by the way, on a lot of these things that I am taking on, if at any time, I really want to take them on so I can get a feel for it. I'm going to almost every committee meeting.

to report back.

So this doesn't mean that it is permanent with me this year. There could be changes, and as I see fit, I'd like to make the changes as we go on.
03:46:44.23 Mike Kelly Carolyn, you should just email the director of her on their website. You'll get her. Who's the council member of Barbara?
03:46:51.56 Carolyn Ford What is the name of the committee again? I'm sorry. I just. No, Maureen Telecommunication. Telecommunication.
03:46:51.98 Mike Kelly What is the name of it?
03:46:54.02 Linda Pfeifer Thank you.
03:46:54.04 Herb Weiner Thank you.
03:46:56.86 Mike Kelly Telecommunications. Debbie, will you email her and CC Carolyn so that they will touch base and she can bring her up to speed.
03:46:59.93 Carolyn Ford Here we go. Okay, so...

Okay.
03:47:04.21 Herb Weiner Thank you.

And with that, we have a
03:47:07.27 Carolyn Ford Okay.
03:47:07.81 Herb Weiner Thank you.

Thank you all for coming and staying and putting up with us.