| Time | Speaker | Text |
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| 00:00:00.03 | Unknown | Thank you for coming. Since we're going to make this a workshop meeting, I'll turn it over to Heidi Burns. |
| 00:00:10.80 | Heidi Burns | Good evening, Mayor Weiner and members of the City Council. We don't have our chair here, but good evening, members of the Planning Commission, and good evening, Chair Pearson, members of the Historic Landmarks Board. Thank you so much for coming this evening. It was kind of short notice, but I'm glad that we have some attendance here. We're also fortunate to have this presentation tonight webcasted, so if you want to let anybody know about this presentation, they'll have an opportunity to view it. I'd like to introduce myself for those of you that don't know who I am. I'm Heidi Burns. I'm an associate planner for the city of Sausalito. I'd also like to introduce Jeremy Graves, our community development director. He's in the back. And the main purpose of this meeting is really to introduce the city's consultant, Nori Winter, with Winter and Company. Before I hand over the podium to Nori, I just wanted to go over a few items just to let everyone know how we got to where we're at tonight, as well as the next steps. So, preserving Sausalito's unique and historic character has always been an important priority for the city. And you can see this with the general plans. objectives, policies, and programs. You can see this with the regulations that the city council has adopted throughout the past 35 years. And so most recently the City Council identified a strong need and desire for historic design guidelines. And the purpose of the design guidelines would help a property owner or an architect or anyone interested in a property figure out how they can improve their property or how they can, let's say, build on a vacant site in the historic district and ensure that those buildings would be compatible with the historic overlay district or improve one of the arcs. And so since the City Council found that as a priority, they funded some money for the city to hire a consultant. And so in spring of 2009, the city sent out a request for proposals. And in July 2009, the city council approved and awarded a contract to Nori Winter. to prepare the design guidelines. We had strong momentum at that time, so in September 2009 we did have a workshop. Thank you. and that allowed members of the community to come out and participate in the process. And since that time, we've had our consultant working closely with our Historic Landmarks Board and city staff to actually come up with a document that has been completed as of last week and distributed. A copy of the draft historic design guidelines can be found on the city's website. You can find it in two places. One would be on the Planning Division's website under Planning Documents as well as the Historic Design Guidelines. So again, tonight we're really going to hear, the main part of this presentation is to hear Noray's rollout of the historic design guidelines and kind of talk through why the document was created the way it was. Also, I wanted to talk about the next steps. So this is going to be a document that needs to be vetted and approved through a public hearing process. And so the first public hearing that we will have will be on May 11th with the Historic Landmarks Board. The Historic Landmarks Board will review the document and provide recommendations to the City Council. |
| 00:03:06.65 | Unknown | All right. |
| 00:03:27.05 | Heidi Burns | We will then hold public hearings at the Planning Commission level. Again, the same process would entail and the recommendations from the Planning Commission would be forwarded to the City Council. The City Council will review the merits of the document as well as the recommendations by the Planning Commission and the Historic Landmarks Board as well as members of the public. At any time, the members of the public can participate in all public hearings at the Historic Landmarks Board, Planning Commission, and City Council level. We encourage you to keep on coming back as much as you can handle it and really participate. If you miss those meetings, at the Historic Landmarks Board and Planning Commission level, we'll have minutes. At the City Council level, we'll have recorded meetings where you can actually see everybody. So with that, I will hand this over to Nora Winter. Thank you. you |
| 00:04:23.33 | Nori Winter | Thank you, Heidi, and good evening. I especially want to thank Heidi and the HLC for all of the hard work that they've put into this project. And so I'm really their voice this evening in presenting this draft of the design guidelines. |
| 00:04:44.63 | Nori Winter | Before I do that, I just would like to let you know A little bit about our work, Winter and Company are specialists in writing design review guidelines. particularly for historic districts around the country. And we're based in Boulder, Colorado. but I do get to claim to be a UCLA grad and former resident of California. And we've worked here in the state in many communities, including writing guidelines for Carmel, Monterey, Sacramento, Pasadena, Truckee, Who else am I forgetting? Napa. Napa. where I was just conducting a workshop yesterday. Some other communities across the country that we've learned from and some of those experiences are embedded in this document are guidelines for Aspen. for Telluride for Galveston, Texas, for West Palm Beach, Florida, And we're presently working on Mackinac Island in Michigan, if some of you are familiar with Mackinac Island. And which is only to say that none of those are ones that we can Xerox and change the name to apply to Sausalito in any ways. But over the 30 years or more that my has been in practice doing this, we've learned a lot. And so what you're seeing here, I think, is the state of the art in terms of our refinement of preservation guidelines. That's not to say there isn't always room for improvement and we're still catching typos. So we will be doing some clean up editing certainly. I do want to stress that this is not new to Sausalito. This is technically an update. There are existing guidelines in place. a bit aged and they have been in need of an update for some time. And the review systems are already in place. This is not a question this evening of should there be a preservation program or where would it apply. That is already in place. The discussion this evening is the guidance that the city uses in determining appropriateness and the information it provides in helping the public and property owners make informed decisions about how to best make use of their property if it's historic and keep it in good repair. And if they are making improvement to properties that exist within the historic districts, to do so in a way that will help to protect the character of the area. We've strived to make them be highly visual and informative and proactive in showing solutions, if you will, uh, trying to demonstrate that in fact historic preservation is something that property owners' needs and support their interests while while also maintaining some of the nationally accepted principles for preserving historic resources. So given that, A little preamble. What I'd like to do. is walk you through the document itself. Heidi alluded to some of the foundation policies that exist And in the general plan, specifically this policy is one of the ones that is a major directive, respect and maintain the exterior integrity of historic structures and sites. And to do so in a way that recognizes the historic structures and sites. The draft before you is organized into five major sections. The first one introduces some of the basic organizational structure and how to decide which portions of the document are going to be relevant to a particular project. The document itself has about 50 pages of actual formal design review guidelines. but they're actually about 100 pages total. The other 50 are background and informational information, And so part of the objective of chapter one is to help people understand which portions of the document are going to be relevant to their needs. And then the second one, we'll go and we'll look at a couple of the key pages in that chapter. The second one addresses the treatment of historic resources as they're identified by the city. They are based on, derived from the Secretary of the Interior's standards and guidelines for rehabilitation of historic buildings, which are widely recognized as the sort of basic principles nationally for treating historic buildings. but they are adapted and translated into Sausalese English, if you will. Thank you. Thank you. Oh. And then chapter three is one that addresses a variety of design elements that could occur either on a historic building or on a non-historic existing building or in a new building. And in some cases they are site improvements. So it's a little bit of a catch-all chapter that could relate to historic properties or others. The fourth one addresses new construction. That is pertinent to new construction particularly in the historic districts. And then finally, a special chapter that addresses the downtown historic district and the context there, directing guidance toward a new infill construction. There are a variety of applications for design review that are outlined early in the document. And that includes the downtown overlay district, the residential arc zoning district, And then properties that are listed on the local historic register or on the California or national registers of historic places. to visually help people understand which sections they might address. There's a chart like this and there's several charts throughout the document that are used to help people find their way quickly. to the sections that are going to be relevant to them. And so depending on the type of property outlined here or the type of work that's envisioned Specific chapters will apply to them. And this is just a close-up of that section to help people understand If for example, they are working on a contributing property, Then chapter 2. will be the relevant Chapter 4 of them. here. In some cases, because of that catch-all nature of Chapter 3, if they're dealing with an awning in a historic building, for example, a portion of that chapter might also apply. And then certainly working on a contributing property in the historic overlay, Chapter 5 would apply. What can happen is that when a property owner comes in for an early discussion with planning staff, literally planning staff could run a Xerox of this take a yellow highlighter and say these are the sections you need to review comes in for early discussion with planning staff. Literally, planning staff could run a Xerox of this, take a yellow highlighter and say, these are the sections you need to review when you're preparing for a design submittal. Now there are also then a sequence of steps to consider in helping to out or beginning to outline one's project. And that one is illustrated here on page eight in the document. And so this is for, if you have an historic building, how do I decide what the basic approach is that's appropriate for treatment of that property? And the first thing is certainly to determine how is, why is the building significant? Is it an outstanding individual landmark or other kind of property? Is it the contributor within the existing district? What is its condition? And what is the integrity in that respect? How much of the original building fabric survives? And then what are your program requirements? What are you trying to accomplish with your project? And out of that then to determine what the appropriate treatment is. And there's text that provides more detail in explaining how to use that chart. Man, that's not what I want to do. What have I done? Thank you. Okay? So here again is an enlargement of that page with this kind of a flow chart to help people come up with a basic approach for how they're going to be addressing their property. Once you've determined that it is an historic building, there are charts that help you determine what the appropriate treatment is, depending on the condition of the property. And the sequence basically follows the philosophy of, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Keep a building that is historic in good shape. And so the steps follow the concept of the path of least interference with the property, if you will. If it's in good condition, preserve it, which means keep it well maintained, painted, weather tight, et cetera. If there are portions that are deteriorated, if there is a railing that is worn or needs repainting, repair it rather than replace it because keeping as much of the original building fabric as possible is always preferred in dealing with preservation. That helps to retain the integrity of the property, if you will. |
| 00:13:57.91 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:14:05.06 | Nori Winter | if it is beyond repair to replace it and to replace it in kind in a way that will be compatible with the original design. And if it is missing, to reconstruct it based on sufficient evidence and to do so in a way that reflects the original historic character. And then if modifications are needed, if an addition is needed or other changes are needed to the building, to do those in a way that will be compatible. So that's the philosophy that is outlined here in this flowchart and shows up in the text of many, many of the design guidelines that follow. Here again is an enlargement of that. table explaining that sequence of decision. steps that a property owner will follow and that the commission and staff would use in looking at a proposal for improvement to a historic property. That said, there are places on a building where there might be more flexibility for alterations. for adding a new door, or building an addition, for example, and how might one decide that? Well, in many cases, for the buildings that are contributors within the historic districts, the most sensitive portions are going to be the front, obviously. And often that's where most of the interesting detail and ornamentation exists on the building. It may be that portions of a side that are somewhat visible from the street are also going to be primary character defining elements where the key features need to be preserved, but as you move around to the backs of the buildings, Typically those are less significant and there's more room for alteration, for modification. Now each of these kinds of conditions vary on a case-by-case basis and some buildings will be more unique than others and have more valuable detailing or design features on different walls. But this helps property owners to at least begin to understand where there may be flexibility for making modifications. more so than in other places. Next I want to just introduce the format of the design guidelines that follow in the body of the document. And they have these typical sections to them. A title that helps to define a subsection of topics that we're dealing with. In this case, those key character defining features that are unique to each individual building. And then the design guideline itself, which is numbered, so it'll be easily referenced in staff reports and in findings of fact and actions that the Commission takes. And then supplemental information is provided under that in bullets, and that may further explain the reasoning for the guideline or provide examples of appropriate solutions or in some cases don'ts, inappropriate actions that would not meet the guideline. And then finally an illustration, either a sketch or a photograph is usually used to help illustrate them. So each, this format is used throughout the body of the design guidelines themselves. Let's look at the chapter addressing historic structures, chapter two. There are a couple of other user aids that are introduced. Here is a reiteration specific to treatment of historic buildings. of the kinds of properties that would be using this particular chapter. So it's a replay of a detailed portion of the chart you saw earlier, and then a summary table of contents of this chapter to help facilitate quick and easy use of it. I'll just show a few actual design guidelines and I think this two page spread is a good example of the way the format works. Here you see a background statement about the preservation of commercial storefronts, which are obviously key to the downtown historic district and to some other properties that are individually listed in the city. and how the format works with the background statement here serving as a policy and then the specific guidelines. And in this case, there are a series that follow this particular topic. And following that sequence of steps of path of least intervention of preserve first, repair next, replace next, you will see that appearing here. So the first guideline related to storefronts has the word preserve. The next one has the word repair, and then it gets to talking about alternative designs that would relate to alterations that might need to occur. So generally speaking, you will see that same format throughout the document. We also have work to illustrate options and to where there can be flexibility. An example here is the treatment of a missing ornamental detail. Here the decorative cornice, the top of a commercial building is missing. One option is to reconstruct it. That certainly would be preferred in many situations, but might not be feasible in some, either because of the information isn't available or economics or other factors. And so in these cases, alternatives, simplified interpretation, it still caps the building, recalls the form, but in a less detailed way is provided as an alternate. How do you decide when those kinds of choices might be best? Here's another one of the decision diagrams. And so here we have a condition where that cornice is missing and the storefront has been altered. What are our options? Again, one might be to reconstruct all those missing elements. When would that be appropriate? It's a highly significant building. There's a lot of good information about the design as it was originally. We can get the craftsmen and the materials locally to make the reconstructed elements. And it's in a context that's very important. If this isn't a row of intact historic buildings on Main Street, then that would be a compelling reason to really carefully reconstruct missing details In other cases where it might be in a less intact block or out by itself or there's less information about the original a simplified interpretation of the original design or even a more contemporary interpretation that still reflects those basic elements would be appropriate. And that philosophy of expressing a degree and range of solutions is something that you'll see throughout the document. It's carried through for other building types. In this section, residential buildings are addressed. And solutions are shown here, particularly for appropriate approaches to constructing additions. And generally, it's going to be most appropriate to install those to the backside of a structure because it's going to have lessen effect on the character and the historic integrity of the primary building. But there certainly are limits to that. When the addition begins to be the tail that's wagging the dog, then that's going to overwhelm that character even though it's located to the rear. So this begins to diagrammatically illustrate those options. to property owners in terms of some viable solutions that are available and readily understood in the guidelines themselves. That same approach to dealing with a storefront is illustrated here for a residential structure, in this case addressing porches and what the solutions might be in terms of an accurate reconstruction or a simplified interpretation of it. Some industrial buildings are also addressed because those are building types that also obviously will merit preservation in the future. There's the section that deals more specifically with how to treat individual building elements and details and gets down to the more specific guidance for some of the building materials typically found on the historic buildings, including wood, and metal and masonry. And you'll notice that we're also providing examples of landscape and site features and public realm. resources that are also of historically significance. So although a lot of the focus is on buildings and architecture, The intent is that these apply to all of those kinds of resources that make up a part of the historic character of the district. That chapter of special considerations addresses some particular elements dealing with historic buildings, that of adaptive reuse and of, in some cases, alterations that themselves may have taken on significance and considering their preservation. And then finally dealing with historic structures, addressing concerns about energy efficiency and retrofitting for technological improvements that will enhance energy generation and conservation. And in this particular case, outlining preferred and acceptable options for locating a panel array of solar collectors on the side of a gable roof building. Again, the point here is there are preferred places where they're less visually noticeable, but even so, visible panels can be acceptable, particularly when they are flush with the roof panel and do not cause a lot of damage to the historic building fabric. There are similar principles that apply for treatment of commercial buildings. Obviously in some respects this is easier because installing, for example, the usual suspects of solar collectors is a little bit easier dealing with a commercial false front building because they're going to be hidden from the street in most cases. But the other point that is made in this diagram is that, |
| 00:24:21.69 | Nori Winter | Just adding the bells and whistles of technology today isn't what makes a historic building green. that it often has a lot of inherent features that if we learn or relearn how to use them. how we can make the building be more energy efficient. The use of operable awnings that can go up and down in response to sun, for example. And the use of operable transoms to allow for natural ventilation within a building are some of the inherent characteristics of a historic structure that are also something to highlight in this kind of situation. Real briefly, the chapter three dealing with special features has a catalog, again at the beginning in a table of contents addressing consideration of views, entry courts, treatment of public art, treatment of signs and other Other factors that could occur either on sites, on historic buildings, and on new buildings. Then the chapter on new construction focuses on compatibility, not on imitating historic styles, but on using forms and materials and general ways of building that reflect the traditions of commercial or residential contexts. in the Downtown Historic District, for example, There is the tradition of a very transparent first floor and a more solid upper floor. And maintaining that sense of transparency and new construction is one of the key principles. where new infill construction might occur within the district. Now while there may not appear to be many opportunities for that, They do occur. Redevelopment of some sites and non-contributing buildings can occur and unfortunately sometimes a historic building is lost due to fire or other calamity. So principles for new construction are going to be important over time. There are similar principles for new construction and residential buildings in terms of being similar in mass and scale and form to those in their context. And then finally, the Downtown Historic District overlay provides a little bit more specific guidance about commercial infill buildings and how to do that in a way that would be compatible with the with the downtown. And so you see again that principle maintaining the sort of alignment of first floors and moldings and cornices and ornamental elements that occur along the street. that contributes to the visual continuity of the block. And so if a new building is constructed in that context, it'll help to reinforce that character and help to retain the integrity of the district at large. That's the bulk of the design guidelines. And then I just want to point out the information that's provided in the appendices. One is a brief historic overview, not the definitive history of Sausalito by any means, but enough of the history to anchor the understanding of the historic resources, in the document itself and to direct people to other information that would be relevant in terms of understanding its history. And then some perhaps a little bit more academic discussion of basic preservation principles for those who really want to understand the fundamentals that are behind that philosophy that's expressed in the more specific guidelines. There is several of the terms that I've been using here in terms of historic significance and integrity of the property, et cetera, and character defining features. These are all terms that are defined here in this appendix. But then also some of the reasons for why this is good for you and the fact that there are some incentives available. There are tax incentives for some qualifying properties at the federal level as well as incentives such as the Mills Act in California that that helped to sweeten the deal in terms of preserving a historic structure. And so those are also described. And then some other background information, lastly, is included. One of those is the Secretary of the Interior Standards that I alluded to at the beginning because they are the foundation for the basic approach. And then there is a series of pages that identify the different styles that have been recognized as historically significant in the city. And the reason for including these is not just an academic exercise. But when the guidelines say, preserve the key character defining features, and you say, well, what are they? You can turn to the building type and style in the appendix here and see that these are going to be the typical elements that are key character-finding features. And those are the ones I need to pay most attention to in terms of coming up with a preservation strategy for them. So here are a couple of examples of of some of those styles. There are more than a dozen of them illustrated there in that section. And then there is a glossary for some of the terms that appear frequently to help clarify their interpretation. So that as people are wondering about those, there's some specific illustrations for defining those terms. Well, that's a whirlwind tour through the document. And I hope what it does is give you an overview of the way it's organized, the sort of basic principles that are embedded in the guidelines, and then just the way in which we've worked to use a variety of user helpers, if you will, to help people through the document so that they can make best use of the pieces that are going to be relevant to them. And with that, Heidi, do I turn it back over to you? |
| 00:30:19.61 | Heidi Burns | our opportunity for members of the audience to ask any questions, either of NORAY or planning staff regarding this document. So do we have any questions? |
| 00:30:32.91 | Heidi Burns | And takers. Okay, well... Stone silence, huh? So with that, |
| 00:30:35.36 | Nori Winter | I... It's time of silence, huh? Oh, well, okay. |
| 00:30:41.06 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:30:41.08 | Heidi Burns | And I will actually hand my... |
| 00:30:43.19 | Unknown | In a couple places there, you mentioned that if you're adding an addition to a historically significant building, you shouldn't try to match the historic building, but maybe do a simplified interpretation of it so you could distinguish old from new. And I understand the logic of that, but at times, if we adhere to that strictly, we might be encouraging additions that look like kind of a tragic parody of what used to be there or what's – if we adhere to that strictly, we might be encouraging additions that look like kind of a tragic parody of what used to be there or what was originally there. And, I worry about that. Could you comment on that? And one thing I particularly love to know is if that's what it says here, do the guidelines give us some wiggle room to judge a project on its merits? a designer actually wanted to do a more true rendition of what exists next to it. |
| 00:31:39.70 | Nori Winter | I think, and I don't know if I could, it would appear on the page that's there, but as I recall, the language Try us to clarify that. Maybe let me back up first to reinforce the point you've made. There is a theory in historic preservation that you should be able to see the evolution and change of a building so that if there have been alterations that you can understand that. And this comes out of a philosophy that we shouldn't fake history. And so if we build an edition that exactly copies the historic style, that that begins to blur the understanding of the history of the property. Um, That said, There are times when the contrast can be so great and so jarring, if you will. that it impedes your ability to understand the original historic property. All right. We've strived in here, I think there is language that says that those differentiations can be quite subtle. That they don't need to be those that shout in your face. Traditionally, for example, on a residential building when you built an addition Often the wall of the wing that might be added on might be offset. 6 inches. from the primary wall plane. Or there may even simply be a trim board and a step down in roof height. Part of it had to do with the way you framed an addition onto a building. in and of itself signaled that was an addition to the property. And so, That is the intent, that those can be relatively subtle kinds of additions. But what would be discouraged is a highly elaborate Victorian, ornately detailed addition to a building that would draw attention away from the primary resource or misconvey what the history of the building was, if that makes sense. |
| 00:33:50.21 | Heidi Burns | I'd also like to add that these are guidelines as well. So depending on where you fit in terms of the regulatory process, the review authority would be able to make that determination with the help of this document. But it doesn't necessarily mean that they have to hold you to those items. And there's going to be certain findings that one needs to make, like in design review right |
| 00:34:23.41 | Unknown | Some years ago, there was a house up on Harrison Street that was three different ages. It had been begun in the teens. Somebody added on to it in the 30s, and then somebody added on to it in the 50s. And when you walked in, you could tell that all three of those were distinctive styles and distinctive distinctively, you know, historic. But, Thank you. The developer wanted to tear it down. Because you say, well, there isn't any one thing here we can call this, and what would we do with it if we kept it? So what would you do in a circumstance like that? Because I think we have more than one of those in town. |
| 00:35:09.09 | Nori Winter | Well, I think there may be a couple of questions embedded in that. One is, An interesting dilemma that we deal with all the time, and that is, a |
| 00:35:24.63 | Unknown | Mm. |
| 00:35:24.90 | Nori Winter | a later edition |
| 00:35:24.97 | Unknown | Thank you. Yeah. |
| 00:35:27.24 | Nori Winter | has itself taken on now historic significance. And so a house built in 1910 that has a 1930s wing added onto it. that wing has taken on significance. And so the First question, let's say that I'm not proposing to demolish that building, I do want to renovate it. And I would like to expand. And what do I do? I would like to remove that 1930s edition. And that is a question that really is handled on a case-by-case basis. We have provided some guidance about additions that might take on historic significance. because If I remove that addition, does the building still retain its historic integrity? Yes, it probably does. The original building will still be there. So, Thank you. Oh. But will a part of its history be erased? Yes, it will. But those are areas generally that the city, and there's language in it says the city will work with the property owner to determine how significant is that addition and is it one that really merits preservation or is it one that given the overall picture, removing it would be appropriate. So, That's the question that more often occurs. Thank you. What I think I also heard you oppose, though, was the argument that because it has evolved over time, it has no historic significance. |
| 00:36:46.82 | Unknown | I think I also heard |
| 00:36:53.88 | Nori Winter | And that's probably not the case. That, you know, the fact that the building has changed It's still historically significant. And so the argument that it can be demolished because it has these different layers of history wouldn't hold up in terms of the the philosophy about preserving historically significant resources. |
| 00:37:16.42 | Unknown | So my second question is, these guidelines are specifically related to historic districts that exist within the city. But we have historic houses in lots of places throughout the city. So do we need to move forward with a second document that covers the houses not in the district or can we use this as a guideline for the entire city? |
| 00:37:44.61 | Nori Winter | For any properties in the city that are listed as historically significant, whether they are an individual house or other kind of structure, any place in the city, These guidelines apply. That's why the actual section on treatment in the historic building itself is not context specific. And that's why we've also tried to include images of a wide range of building types, not just those in the historic districts. for that very reason. |
| 00:38:13.56 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:38:13.60 | Nori Winter | And it is also set up that the downtown historic district is the last chapter that if the city should ever designate another district, it's easy enough to add that to the back of the document and all of the preceding sections still work. And so it's designed to hopefully have a relatively long shelf life, and be able to work that way. And that's also why we did introduce some building types that haven't necessarily been officially listed, but in the styles descriptions because the anticipation is they could be in the future, and let's go ahead and get that information in here. |
| 00:38:58.25 | Unknown | Well, since nobody will ask, I got another question. Should we take this document and send it to all of the architects in our jurisdiction? so that they have it? |
| 00:39:08.49 | Nori Winter | I absolutely would encourage that. We often will even conduct training sessions for them to help them understand how to use the document. But absolutely, that is certainly the intent is to get this in the hands of as many users as possible, contractors as well. |
| 00:39:24.98 | Unknown | Hmm. |
| 00:39:29.36 | Unknown | Somebody else has got a question. |
| 00:39:31.22 | Unknown | Okay, I have a question. Okay, so in looking at this document if I'm I would imagine that a primary user will be an architect And I would imagine that a primary question would be, is this for example, that I'm looking at working on, is it historic? And on my page six, you've got the step one, determine building significance. And you've got the steps, how old's the building, where's the building site located, and all these things. And, My question was, these are kind of high-level questions that the architect should be asking. But I was interested in more of the how do I find out, you know, like. And so then I went to, I guess you've got, it's extended on page. A5 and the appendix you've got criteria for determining the significance and you've provided some outlines there and then again, on page A14, you've got some, you know, your resources listed. But I guess where I'm going is, if it would be possible to create, like, a tool, like, which would be like an accompaniment to the guidelines, that based on what your purpose was for, like, an architect, for determining that question, number one, is this historic, to just, you know, list resources specific to answering that question. for the next one. for determining that question, number one, is this historic, to just list resources specific to answering that question. For example, you might contact the historic landmarks board, or you might, kind of listing the the local resources, the historical society, local resources that an architect from outside the town may not know about, but, you know, it could help, you know, guide them. I notice you have the, for the Secretary of Interior Standards, but it's kind of buried, you know, in the resource section above. the California registry, local registry, et cetera, might be a good tool. And I understand that these resources could change, But then if it's just a one-page job aid, you could then just update it you know And then, likewise, if I was a resident with a new... you know, property I just purchased and I loved it and I wanted to do all the research about it, you know, to look at its historical evolution of the other resources unique for me to pursue that would not be pertinent for an architect. So I guess it's just a question just tossing out. I think it's a great suggestion on that. |
| 00:42:21.66 | Unknown | I think it's a great suggestion and I think we could add some cross-references here at that point. It would be very, very useful. |
| 00:42:29.37 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:42:31.06 | Heidi Burns | And just to add to that, the city has an active list of those properties that are eligible for the California International Register. We have a list of all those contributing properties in the historic overlay districts. We have a list of those local registered buildings, so it would, could be easily incorporated |
| 00:42:48.83 | Nori Winter | Yeah, I think a sidebar right there of noting the listings that already exist plus the resources later in the document, I think it's a great idea. |
| 00:42:49.05 | Heidi Burns | STOCK. |
| 00:42:59.05 | Nori Winter | very much in the spirit of the way we're trying to |
| 00:43:00.98 | Unknown | Mm-hmm. |
| 00:43:01.45 | Nori Winter | provide these references. |
| 00:43:02.46 | Unknown | I don't know what I'm talking about. |
| 00:43:09.13 | Nori Winter | What else? Thank you. |
| 00:43:11.03 | Heidi Burns | Going, going. |
| 00:43:11.90 | Nori Winter | Well, thank you very much. |
| 00:43:12.66 | Heidi Burns | Well, thank you very much for... Sorry, one more. Sorry, take on question number four. |
| 00:43:14.55 | Nori Winter | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:43:16.43 | Unknown | Okay. |
| 00:43:17.38 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:43:17.48 | Unknown | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 00:43:17.68 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:43:17.70 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:43:17.75 | Unknown | . |
| 00:43:17.80 | Unknown | number |
| 00:43:18.24 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:43:18.28 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:43:18.41 | Unknown | My dinner won't be ready for another 10 minutes so we can do it. |
| 00:43:20.70 | Heidi Burns | Thank you. |
| 00:43:21.53 | Unknown | Surveying the town for historic properties. You say we have that, but we really don't have it completely surveyed, do we? |
| 00:43:30.22 | Heidi Burns | Well, we definitely don't have a complete survey of every property in town, but what we do have would be the Department of Park and Recreation forms, which is the state department of those buildings that have been identified on our noteworthy structures list. We have those buildings that are actually on the national register, and we have the DPR forms for all those buildings within the historic overlay district. Hopefully with our CLG certification, we can ask for additional funding to pursue future surveys. And in our CLG application, we identified a whole bunch of survey projects. So that can be accomplished at a later date and time. |
| 00:44:11.99 | Unknown | Good. |
| 00:44:17.17 | Unknown | Thank you. Adam Krivoczy. uh, landscaping and the landscape environment. is critical to the character of this town. How does your historic guideline address Thank you. the appropriate complement to the architectural history, historical character of this community and historic district. |
| 00:44:50.77 | Nori Winter | There are guidelines in here that do address historic landscapes and historic landscape features. So they are definitely, that came out in the public workshops and in the discussions that Those are very, very important in the the public realm in that respect at large is important. |
| 00:45:08.67 | Unknown | it. |
| 00:45:11.83 | Nori Winter | Those are our address. And then there are some other sort of passing statements I would say about new landscapes on historic sites respecting the historic character of the architecture. |
| 00:45:34.54 | Heidi Burns | Well thank you again for attending this evening. There will be other opportunities like I said in the beginning of my presentation so I hope you participate. |
| 00:45:43.80 | Unknown | Do you want to recap those dates? Yeah. Sure. In the process from here. |
| 00:45:47.72 | Heidi Burns | Okay, so just to recap, May 11th at 5.30 at City Hall, we're still trying to find a room. We will be hosting a Historic Landmarks Board public hearing on this document. Depending on how long it takes at the Historic Landmarks Board will depend how many dates the meeting, or at that level, the meetings will take. Once the Historic Landmarks Board has finished their review and recommendations to the City Council, then we will publicly notice for the Planning Commission hearings. We're going to notice those meetings on our website. They will be agendized. We'll send out notices in our sauce-later occurrence, and we'll try to solicit this to as many interested parties as possible to try to get as much input as we can. After the Planning Commission holds their public hearings, we'll send everything to the city council, and the city council will take the ultimate action on the document. |
| 00:46:41.74 | Unknown | Roughly how long and what's this time? It's good for that |
| 00:46:44.99 | Heidi Burns | Well, we have a pretty aggressive time frame, but unfortunately we don't know how long it'll take at the Historic Landmarks Board and Planning Commission levels for the public hearings. The Historic Landmarks Board has been actively working on this document. They're intimately involved and knowledgeable of this document, so I don't anticipate it'll take too many public hearings to go through this document. It depends, again again on what kind of public input we have. But we're going to keep on moving this as fast as we can through the process. My goal is that we can actually get it to the city council by July, but I can't hold anybody to that. But we'll actively pursue this. for the |
| 00:47:25.09 | Unknown | Heidi, thank you so much for the historic landmarks board and everyone. Thank you very much, you guys. I mean, it's all just in your work as well. I just want to acknowledge that. Thank you. |
| 00:47:30.03 | Heidi Burns | and everyone. |
| 00:47:44.93 | Heidi Burns | Great, with that, shall we adjourn the meeting? |
| 00:47:48.02 | Unknown | Yeah. |