| Time | Speaker | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:01:04.11 | Herb Weiner | Okay. Good evening and welcome to the May 17, 2011. Council meeting And at this time here, I'd like to take a roll call, please. |
| 00:01:17.37 | Unknown | Council member Pfeiffer? Councilmember Leon. |
| 00:01:21.50 | Herb Weiner | Here. |
| 00:01:21.98 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 00:01:22.03 | Herb Weiner | you |
| 00:01:22.21 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 00:01:23.04 | Unknown | Vice Mayor Kelly? you Councilmember Ford? Here. And Mayor Weiner? |
| 00:01:28.32 | Herb Weiner | At this time here, we'll have the pledge. And, uh... Alice Merrill. it. Would you lead us? More ways than one. |
| 00:01:43.54 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 00:01:43.59 | Carolyn Ford | My allegiance to the flag. |
| 00:01:44.54 | Linda Pfeifer | to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it is |
| 00:01:45.97 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. the United States. |
| 00:01:50.34 | Herb Weiner | Yeah. |
| 00:01:50.56 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:01:51.59 | Herb Weiner | nation. |
| 00:01:52.49 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:01:52.87 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. with liberty and justice for all. |
| 00:02:01.26 | Herb Weiner | Okay. There's no items to talk about closed session because we didn't have a closed session. |
| 00:02:06.95 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:02:07.32 | Herb Weiner | Yeah. |
| 00:02:07.71 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:02:10.42 | Herb Weiner | so you can't comment on it. At this time here, I'd like to move for approval of the agenda. |
| 00:02:15.93 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 00:02:15.98 | Carolyn Ford | So, |
| 00:02:16.03 | Mike Kelly | move. |
| 00:02:17.56 | Carolyn Ford | Seconded. |
| 00:02:18.52 | Herb Weiner | All in favor? |
| 00:02:19.96 | Mike Kelly | All right. |
| 00:02:20.25 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. Bye. |
| 00:02:21.06 | Herb Weiner | Opposed? Okay. At this time here, I'd like to have a special presentation of the activities of the Vena del Mar Sister City Program. Mike Langford. |
| 00:02:36.66 | Mike Langford | Good evening, Mayor, Councilman. |
| 00:02:41.27 | Mike Langford | Good evening Mayor, Council Members. Um... This past year we celebrated the 50th anniversary of our sister city relationship with Vina del Mar Chile. This relationship started in 1960 and as we all know the Vina del Mar Plaza is named after our sister city Vina del Mar. The relationship that we've had with them has had its highs and had its lows, but there is an effort now within the city to recapture the spirit of the relationship. And I'd like to introduce resident Michael Moyle, who's been doing a lot of research and has been in touch with Vina Del Mar and would like to give you an update on what he has done and where he sees this relationship going. Thank you. |
| 00:03:25.77 | Michael Moyle | Thank you very much, Mike, and thank you for giving me the time this evening to be here. I really didn't even know where Viña del Mar was two years ago, and I happened to be walking through the plaza one day and decided I should find out. So it was an opportune time with the 50th anniversary coming up. I've never been there. I don't speak Spanish. I don't know if anybody has been to Viña del Mar, but I've learned after looking into it that it's quite an interesting place. So I'd like to share some of the things I've learned with you all this evening, ask for some guidance on your part, and see where we can go from here. I did note that it is one of the priority items on the city Council's list, although actually it's the last one, so we can move it up a bit. |
| 00:04:14.34 | Unknown | . |
| 00:04:19.20 | Michael Moyle | Certainly, I think, as Mike said, we have the Viña del Mar Plaza here. We also have the Hermandad statue that was done by Sergio Castillo, which is just next to Gabrielson Park. He was born in Viña, and so we have a very close connection with two major parts of our downtown to the town. Viña del Mar is located on the coast, about 75 miles from Santiago. It is Chile's fourth largest city, a population about 40 times the size of Sausalito, about the same size as Riverside or Stockton here in California. As you'll see, it's quite a beautiful spot. One of Chile's major newspapers just conducted a poll last year. It was identified by Chileans as the number one place to live and work, live and visit, and the number two place to work in all of Chile. And it's also a very substantial university town with some interesting cultural traditions. So you can see it's about halfway down the coast of Chile, a coast which is about 2,700 miles long. And if you look in the map on the right, you can see it up there with Santiago down in the lower right-hand corner. In some ways it's similar to us, close to Napa there's a Casablanca Valley that is about halfway between Vina del Mar and Santiago, which is one of Chile's major wine growing areas. This is a couple of shots of the city. As you can see, it has a beautiful beachfront. In the last few years, I understand there's been quite a bit of construction along the beach, and so it has quite a substantial high-rise portion along the water. These are a couple of the festivals which are held each year in Viña del Mar. One on the top, the film festival is held in November. The second one, which is, I understand, one of the most significant music festivals in the world, and certainly in Latin America, is held in February. And both of these draw very substantial crowds to Vigne. As I mentioned, it has four university campuses within the city. These are just a couple of them. the Sausalito connection. They have the Sausalito Stadium there in Viña, which is the home to the a soccer team which is nicknamed the Roulette Players in honor of the casino which was found in Viña. And also the Lagoon which you see there next to the stadium is also called the Sausalito Lagoon. |
| 00:07:09.47 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:07:10.85 | Michael Moyle | This is the mayor of Virginia Reginato, and they have a 10-person municipal council. I've been impressed in just doing some online research with how well-wired the city is. They have a very active Facebook page, which I've become a friend, even though I don't really speak Spanish well. And they seem to be very focused on social media. |
| 00:07:41.38 | Michael Moyle | This was last year. Mayor Leon was, former Mayor Leon was there, and I think several of the others of the council were too. I didn't bring the video of the dance. Let me say it was an eye-opener. It was an eye-opener. |
| 00:07:49.06 | Unknown | TODAY. That's a word. Thank you. |
| 00:07:50.81 | Unknown | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 00:07:50.89 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:07:51.03 | Linda Pfeifer | I have. with the dancing. |
| 00:07:59.99 | Linda Pfeifer | I think that's his shoe on the bike. |
| 00:08:01.71 | Unknown | I think that's his shoe on the bike. |
| 00:08:05.59 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 00:08:05.64 | Unknown | The |
| 00:08:05.64 | Michael Moyle | That is near Leon with Council General Alex Geiger, who was the Council General until last fall when they sent him to Egypt, where he's been probably trying to stay alive since then. But this was the plaque that was dedicated by the Chilean government to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the relationship. |
| 00:08:18.96 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:08:19.02 | Linda Pfeifer | That's perfect. |
| 00:08:20.14 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:08:30.65 | Michael Moyle | It was a very nice day. Then this year, this is our new Council General, Rolando Ortega, who came over in February to speak at the Rotary Club, which again, a nervous number of you were at. Very nice guy, has an economic background and has been extremely helpful in trying to figure out what to do with this relationship. |
| 00:08:46.06 | Peter Van Meter | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:08:54.55 | Michael Moyle | In July, the Chilean naval training ship La Esmeralda will be coming to San Francisco. and we're thinking about different ways in which we might use that visit to try to raise the consciousness and basically promote the sister city relationship. Obviously a very beautiful ship. I'm told they can't just bring it over and dock it off of Sazabuida. So where do we go here? I think I would like to have some sense from the city. I will say that I've been in touch with Susan Rowe with the sister city committee, which although it's not specifically for Sakai Day, I think will provide a good framework for trying to develop more of a contact with Viña del Mar. Susan is very enthusiastic about doing that. We don't want to get in the way of what is an excellent. contact with Viña del Mar. Susan is very enthusiastic about doing that. We don't want to get in the way of what is an excellent sister city program with Sakaide. That's far ahead of perhaps anything we could really hope to achieve with Viña del Mar. But perhaps the circumstances in Sakaide and Viña are a little bit different as well. Patrick Lee and the Rotary Club has been active. They've been trying to develop some contacts with the counterpart Rotaries in Vigna and have had some success with that. It seems like there would be many opportunities for educational contact. High school graduates in Chile, only 5% speak English, which was a real shock to me. And it's a national priority to increase the English capability of their students. And I think that provides a specific opportunity for us. Yacht clubs, maritime, other artistic community, I think there are many opportunities there. And then finally, I would just say that the Chileans are extremely focused on California and as a country to state relationship there are a lot of things going on. And I've really found that we are only one of three California cities with sister cities in Chile and simply by a little bit of focus on this, I've gotten a lot of |
| 00:11:09.66 | Linda Pfeifer | Oh. |
| 00:11:11.74 | Michael Moyle | contact. So I think we can expect not only from Vigne, but also from the Chilean government, quite a bit of support for whatever we might do. you So I'd be happy to address any questions. And as I say, I really just wanted to let you know what we've been doing. I think the next steps, Council General Ortega is making contact with the city government in Vigna. I anticipate that we'll have an official person to be in touch with there. And then at that point, I think, I hope that the city, Sausalito, would want to reciprocate and establish that contact as simply one line of communication going forward. But it's been a lot of fun to find out. And I hope that we can help get some support from other components of the community, too. Thank you. Excellent. Thank you. Thank you. Any questions? |
| 00:12:06.58 | Herb Weiner | ANY QUICK? |
| 00:12:09.08 | Jonathan Leone | I'm sorry. I know that the Chilean community in the Bay Area also wants to, as you found out, wants to be involved in some sort of a rebirth of this relationship. It symbolizes to them a chance to make stronger ties with their home countries. Exactly. Yeah. |
| 00:12:25.82 | Herb Weiner | And I'll touch base with you later because we have two people in this community that have businesses and live in the community. And I know one of them lives, also has a place in Vina del Mar, Chile. |
| 00:12:39.36 | Michael Moyle | That would be great. I think we're right on the cusp of recruiting. Yeah, so I'll give you that information. |
| 00:12:40.64 | Herb Weiner | Yeah. Yeah, so I'll give you that information. So thank you very much. |
| 00:12:47.20 | Michael Moyle | Thank you very much. |
| 00:12:48.03 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. And thank you for getting involved. It's a pleasure. |
| 00:12:51.94 | Herb Weiner | Yeah. |
| 00:12:51.98 | Jonathan Leone | Yeah. Thank you. |
| 00:12:52.33 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 00:12:52.87 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 00:12:54.44 | Herb Weiner | Okay, at this time here, I'd like to... |
| 00:12:56.77 | Linda Pfeifer | Mm-hmm. |
| 00:12:57.23 | Herb Weiner | OPEN IT UP TO any other citizens that would like to make a comment. I have a sign-up sheet for items that are not on the agenda. |
| 00:13:09.83 | Herb Weiner | Peter Van Meter is the first one. |
| 00:13:13.75 | Peter Van Meter | Please refer to the handout on your DS that looks like redistricting. My name is Peter Van Meter for Cloud View Circle. I have been active in the redistricting process which is underway right now through the independent commission that we elected here in 2008. and expanded its duties to congressional districts in 2010. They are undertaking hearings around the state and on May 23rd will be the deadline for the submitting of public comments. So what I'd like to do is to tell you what I've been talking to about. I've been out to five different groups now, Rotary Clubs and my own forum. and at the Board of Supervisors talking to about, I'd say around 150 people so far on this topic. of which I've only heard one comment. and feedback and does not agree with the idea of separating us from San Francisco in the redistricting process. The problem that we have is that the 6th Congressional District right now. has about 420,000 people in San Francisco And that population basically being stolen from the North Bay affects all of the redistricting for the northern part of the state, basically above the Sacramento River NI80. So that's the problem that we're trying to solve here. Now this current District 3 basically fails all of the tests that's in the state constitution for redistricting. It's not contiguous, it jumps across the bay. It's not compact, it's a political gerrymander extending from the 1980s. when incidentally, the ladies. Councilwoman from Fairfax, Johanna Wilman and I went around and testified at all the and it was really a ho-hum. was already decided in advance of public comment, trying to get that to not happen, but it's been in effect for 30 years. It doesn't respect city and county lines. does not have the common community of interest. of the rural and suburban nature of the North Bay compared to urban of San Francisco. Yeah. probably diminishes the opportunity of minority groups in San Francisco to elect candidates of choice by diluting their voting power It also doesn't allow for assembly district nesting, which is a desirable characteristic. But we do have good districts here in the assembly. and in the Congress, because they all are north of the Golden Gate, and they are contiguous in Marin County and Sonoma and keep those districts together. As interesting as I looked up statistics on this, that the agricultural component in Marin and Soma counties is 58% of our land area of over 3,900 farms 26% of our employment and 16% of our economic output. Certainly different than San Francisco in terms of economics. We also, because of issues of compliance with Voting Rights Act, we have a relatively modest minority population in our two counties, 22% |
| 00:15:54.31 | Unknown | No. Thank you. |
| 00:16:06.95 | Peter Van Meter | people that are not white only, 22% also that are Hispanic or Latino. And of course, we have the infrastructure characteristics that are called for in the Constitution as well. A few more moments to solve this problem. |
| 00:16:19.69 | Unknown | Go ahead. |
| 00:16:20.03 | Herb Weiner | I'll finish it up, Peter. |
| 00:16:21.29 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:16:24.69 | Peter Van Meter | It turns out that you can combine Marin, Sonoma, Mendocino, and Humboldt. and have a new Senate district that exactly complies with the constitutional requirements for redistricting without dividing these county lines at all. common community of interest and that allows for a solution then that rolls through the rest of the Northern California and lets you to retain our current assembly and congressional districts and nest those districts together like they're supposed to be. So the bottom line is what we'll be recommending in testimony on Friday is that the Golden Gate be the southwest corner of all of Northern California Redistricting. at Miranda and Sonoma County stay together and you combine these other counties. So what I'm asking you to do you like other community leaders in the county and throughout the state, is to write individual letters to the Redistricting Commission expressing your support for this concept. of separating us from San Francisco and keeping the counties here in the North Bay together. And what you do is you go to, and the audience can do this as well, We draw the lines, all one word, we draw the lines. dot C A. dot gov. And there you find a tab that says what you are saying You click on that, you can fill out a form or you can send an email. and you can make a comment because the consultant for the commission is counting these up. They're going to say, So many people are in support of this concept, and it makes a huge difference. I can tell you that. I've been watching what they do. So I urge everybody to do that, and I hope that each of you do that. individually since you cannot have this on your agenda to actually make a motion as a by the way I spoke to the Board of Supervisors Three out of the four supervisors will, in fact two of them already have written such letters. as individuals, in fact, on supervisor letterhead, even though it wasn't a resolution of the supervisors. As I watch public hearings, Other council members, mayors, and so on have shown up made testimony on behalf of their cities, so you should feel free as individuals to make such comments. Thank you. Okay, thank you, Peter. |
| 00:18:31.18 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 00:18:32.92 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you very much. You know what's the cutoff date? May 24th. Cutoff date? May 23rd. |
| 00:18:33.29 | Peter Van Meter | Thank you. |
| 00:18:33.33 | Unknown | You want to cut off. |
| 00:18:34.12 | Peter Van Meter | Right. Thank you. THE END OF THE END OF THE May 23rd, and the public hearings in Santa Rosa on Friday 6 to 9 p.m. |
| 00:18:44.06 | Herb Weiner | Thank you, Peter Alice Merrill |
| 00:18:52.63 | Alice Merrill | Hello, my name is Alice Merrill and I live in Sausalito. I'm not. Um... Okay, so I'm talking about the real foods market because my family happens to be the I just want to set the record straight about what happened, what were proceeding to do so that people can feel more comfortable, I hope, and feel like it's not a lost cause and that if there's Anybody who wants to, I don't know, help in any way, you know, we're open. Susan Frank has started a SOS, Save Our Store. |
| 00:19:30.18 | Unknown | STORIES. |
| 00:19:31.22 | Alice Merrill | So, She's got her little community thing going. So here's my thing. My parents bought this building in 1960, I think. And I think that the store has been there for about 30 years. And it was a couple, Kimball and Jane Allen, and they were just people who wanted to do a good store. They were getting older and Kimball was sick, and so they negotiated a 10-year lease Ten years ago, and Charlie was still alive, and we did it with him in mind, how it would make him feel good about having what he did, you know. And then they sold the store. They sold the business to this new company. It's a huge corporation from Utah. And, um, There was nothing we could say about it, nothing we could do about it. It was a business sold to a business. And so that's what happened. And then about nine months ago, they started, Mark said that, he said, what do you want to do about the lease? Because there was an addendum on the lease that they could extend And they said, well, we might want it for a year or two. And he said, that doesn't sound very. Um, very much of a commitment. So in the end, They wanted him to draw up a brand new lease. not for an addendum, you know, not for one year or two years. And... And they never, ever. raise the rent. We never said, we will give you a new lease and we will give you twice as much rent. Never, never happened. It wasn't going to happen. |
| 00:21:03.48 | Susan Shea | Never. |
| 00:21:05.99 | Alice Merrill | I wouldn't let it happen. So that's that story. Now, where we go from here? We're trying to identify carefully, deliberately, new store that can come in that will fit this community and that building and our Uh, whole service here and we're doing We're talking to all kinds of people. We've talked to other kinds of health food stores, various different sorts. We're on it. We're going to do the very best we can. We might need some time. We don't know, but our intention, our hope is that we get another store in there as soon as we can. So that's basically it. The only thing that I would like to say is, you know, is there anybody here who is here in regards to this tonight? So here's some people who took the time tonight to come out and support that this store stay and we get it. And so that's the story. And that's, so whatever rumors, the Chinese people didn't buy it. The man who owned it did die, but he didn't, you know, change. So that's the deal. Thank you. |
| 00:22:22.86 | Unknown | I know. |
| 00:22:23.79 | Unknown | So, um... |
| 00:22:28.11 | Herb Weiner | Thank you very much, Alice. We really appreciate it because I think all of us have gotten, we've received a lot of phone calls and people on the street asking us. Council Member Leon, thank you. |
| 00:22:28.31 | Alice Merrill | Thank you. |
| 00:22:38.62 | Jonathan Leone | Adams anything you want to add to that? |
| 00:22:44.05 | Adam Politzer | I appreciate Alice coming tonight. She and I exchanged voicemails and I appreciate her giving me that information as well as the folks from the SOS committee that also forwarded information on to me, so I appreciate that. The council may want to look at either directing this to one of its council committees so that the city can participate at some level and right now Our hands are somewhat tied, but obviously we support keeping residents serving businesses on Caledonia Street. And, you know, we have a variety of committees starting with the Finance Committee where we may want to have this discussion. The OMIT and the Business Advisory Committee are two other committees that would have an opportunity to have this discussion. They can place that on their agenda at a future meeting, but if the Council so chooses tonight, I would like to direct this to be discussed as and I may need the city attorney to weigh in here as a emergency. because we have a finance community tomorrow, then we could have some discussion and if Alice would like to join us, then that may be a good opportunity. Otherwise, we can wait till our next scheduled meeting, which the Finance Committee, because we're in budget hearings, have several scheduled over the next two weeks. So if the council doesn't see the urgency to have it on tomorrow so that we can place it on an agenda for later. In the week or next week so I um, give that to you as an option for tonight. you Thank you. |
| 00:24:23.45 | Herb Weiner | I'm looking at it. |
| 00:24:23.97 | Adam Politzer | Thank you. |
| 00:24:24.04 | Herb Weiner | Finance Committee here. |
| 00:24:26.01 | Mike Kelly | That's fine. Yeah, I'll extend it. It's legal. Sooner rather than later. |
| 00:24:27.85 | Herb Weiner | sooner rather than later. Mary, are we allowed to do that for tomorrow or we can't? Emergency. An emergency? |
| 00:24:29.32 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 00:24:29.44 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 00:24:29.45 | Mary Wagner | Mary? |
| 00:24:30.42 | Mike Kelly | Have we allowed... |
| 00:24:31.04 | Mary Wagner | You do that. |
| 00:24:31.72 | Mike Kelly | I'm all right. |
| 00:24:32.24 | Mary Wagner | We can't. Um, so excuse me, SOS. |
| 00:24:37.18 | Herb Weiner | S-O-S. |
| 00:24:39.56 | Mary Wagner | In order to add an item to an agenda after the agenda has been posted, there has to be a need to take immediate action, and that need to take action has to have arisen after the agenda was posted. I'm not familiar enough with the circumstances to know if there's a need for immediate action. If the council finds that there is such a circumstance or the finance committee finds tomorrow that there is such a circumstance, you could add it, but it really is supposed to be it can't wait. You know, you need to do it tomorrow because the agenda is closed. |
| 00:24:44.64 | Herb Weiner | you |
| 00:25:06.97 | Linda Pfeifer | need to do that. Thank you. |
| 00:25:07.95 | Unknown | What is it? |
| 00:25:08.03 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 00:25:08.13 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:25:08.17 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 00:25:08.39 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:25:08.42 | Linda Pfeifer | The closing is the 22nd. STORIES. |
| 00:25:11.88 | Mary Wagner | I don't know what the need for immediate action by the Finance Committee would be. |
| 00:25:16.40 | Jonathan Leone | What's the normal notice period for the at the? 24 hours for a special meeting. |
| 00:25:19.56 | Mary Wagner | 24 hours for a special meeting, 72 for regular. |
| 00:25:22.39 | Jonathan Leone | We have Thursday and Friday meetings too, I think. Friday. Friday. |
| 00:25:26.22 | Mike Kelly | We have time for Friday? Why don't we do it Friday? That will satisfy the meeting thing. Alice, go ahead. |
| 00:25:29.16 | Jonathan Leone | Okay. . Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:25:32.57 | Mike Kelly | Okay. |
| 00:25:37.02 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:25:38.93 | Alice Merrill | The store has collected 500-plus signatures, so we're going to show this to people who are prospective store people, so they see that this is something that would be good. So I just wanted to, because they brought this in and they've really worked to do this, so I wanted to acknowledge that they did. So thank you. |
| 00:25:52.14 | Herb Weiner | right? |
| 00:25:52.50 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:25:58.03 | Herb Weiner | you And thank you. Yeah, thanks, Max. And thank you all for... |
| 00:26:01.54 | Alice Merrill | Yeah, thanks. |
| 00:26:04.83 | Herb Weiner | There is a need, that's for sure, on Caledonia Street to have this store or a similar store like that. So thank you. Um... Any other, let's see, Mike Monsef, this is on items that are not on the agenda. Thank you. |
| 00:26:22.06 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:26:22.10 | Herb Weiner | Okay. |
| 00:26:22.38 | Unknown | Thank you. I'm Mike from 211 Fort. I'm here on behalf of some of my tenants. That's Crazy Shirt, Bridgeway Cafe, Venice Gourmet, which they own their own properties, and also Angelino. they are planning to put some Amen. Extend. take over the parking, the four parkings that is in that street. And I think they have talked to Adam. City Manager, and I just want to bring it to your attention because we were talking about in order for this event that's happening in Sausalito to bring the activity out in the streets so people, and they're going to put some, they already have a plan to put some planner boxes along, take over this four parking area. you It's a good idea, it's very practical. In Europe they do that. I mean, it's a temporary, it's not a It brings a lot of activity to town. And in order to do that, obviously, there's a process they have to go through. and it's going to cost some money. In this economic situation, they want to make sure at least this member, this body, He's aware of it. and if, Obviously you can't do two or three of you to make any comment about it, but individually you can make a comment to any one of us whether you are in favor of it or not. Before we do apply for that because it has to go through the process of the I believe some kind of planning decision or something like that. Before we spend the money, Um, Is it worth it? I mean, you guys are going to back it up or not? If you're not, then, It's not, it's futile to do it. So that's why I'm here for that issue, and I hope individually I'll talk to each one of you so we don't break the brown root. And so I hope you be giving me your opinion so we can follow up. Thank you, Mike. |
| 00:28:25.06 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. That's right in front of Angelino's Venezuela. |
| 00:28:28.49 | Herb Weiner | That's right in front of Angelino's, Venezuela's, those four spaces. They want to go out on the street. |
| 00:28:32.44 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 00:28:34.43 | Adam Politzer | Mr. Mayor, just a quick response on that. Pasquale has talked to me about that and what the city has encouraged the property owners in front of that, where those parking spaces sit, were to go and petition all the folks, all the businesses in that neighborhood because you'd be giving up four spots. And if all the businesses on Bridgeway and Princess Street were in support of that, then we would take it through the process. So that's where we are at this point, is they're trying to get consensus from the Chamber of Commerce and the businesses on Bridgeway. |
| 00:29:09.95 | Herb Weiner | Yeah. In San Francisco, I'm going to butcher this wording because of my accent, but they call it |
| 00:29:16.92 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 00:29:18.86 | Herb Weiner | That's Park with an R, believe it or not. Okay. Yes, go ahead. |
| 00:29:24.36 | Jonathan Leone | you You might want to add just on the real food sink if there's still people here for that. No, thinking that, yeah. Somebody could tell them that. |
| 00:29:28.16 | Herb Weiner | We'll hear you. Yes. |
| 00:29:31.67 | Jonathan Leone | We're trying to get involved in health in the way we can. But we can't comment on it tonight, obviously, because it's not on our agenda. |
| 00:29:33.36 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 00:29:33.37 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:29:33.53 | Herb Weiner | . |
| 00:29:38.54 | Herb Weiner | Okay, the next I have Graziella Cabuzzi. Here you are. |
| 00:29:45.27 | Glaziella Tribussi | Thank you. |
| 00:29:45.74 | Herb Weiner | Don't get nervous now. |
| 00:29:47.04 | Glaziella Tribussi | No. Thank you. |
| 00:29:47.89 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 00:29:48.01 | Glaziella Tribussi | Good evening, Mayor, and good evening, Council members. I simply wanted to say... You just have... Say your name in... |
| 00:29:53.32 | Herb Weiner | You just have to say your name. Thank you. |
| 00:29:55.13 | Glaziella Tribussi | Yes, I'm Glaziella Tribussi and I live in Sausalito for 26 years. I have shopped at Real Food for 26 years and I would just ask you all to please help us so that we keep a nice great store with a source of organic vegetables and you know it's nice to just walk by and go shopping. |
| 00:29:55.19 | Herb Weiner | Yes. |
| 00:30:19.48 | Glaziella Tribussi | And also I was concerned about the employees as well losing their jobs. So that's all, please help us. |
| 00:30:27.54 | Herb Weiner | Okay, thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. |
| 00:30:28.08 | Glaziella Tribussi | Thank you. Thank you very much. |
| 00:30:31.42 | Herb Weiner | Okay. That's all I have on the list is if anybody else would like to speak. Please, thank you. |
| 00:30:36.55 | Sherri Lynn Campbell | Please, thank you. Thank you. I'm new to the community. I'm not, however, new to the Bay Area. You have to say your name. My name is Sherri Lynn Campbell. I live over at MarinShip. And I'm going to go to the Bay Area. |
| 00:30:41.11 | Herb Weiner | Yeah, say your name. |
| 00:30:46.64 | Sherri Lynn Campbell | familiar with Jonathan. Sorry. Yes. And in a very good way, in the most positive way. |
| 00:30:50.59 | Jonathan Leone | Sorry. |
| 00:30:51.57 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 00:30:52.01 | Unknown | Let's. |
| 00:30:52.32 | Unknown | I know. |
| 00:30:53.33 | Susan Shea | Thank you. |
| 00:30:53.36 | Unknown | Most possible. |
| 00:30:53.75 | Unknown | . |
| 00:30:53.82 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:30:53.88 | Unknown | Right. |
| 00:30:54.29 | Jonathan Leone | Let me just clarify that. Yeah. |
| 00:30:55.62 | Sherri Lynn Campbell | Yeah. Oh, my God. |
| 00:30:57.38 | Susan Shea | Thank you. |
| 00:30:57.41 | Sherri Lynn Campbell | i can't really |
| 00:30:57.90 | Jonathan Leone | We have not been talked many times. Yes. But that's... |
| 00:30:58.54 | Susan Shea | Thank you. Yes. |
| 00:31:02.10 | Jonathan Leone | That's as far as the familiarity goes. |
| 00:31:03.67 | Herb Weiner | No, no, let me know. Bye. |
| 00:31:05.11 | Linda Pfeifer | I'm not. |
| 00:31:05.28 | Herb Weiner | Let me clarify this, he's... You can tell he read the newspaper about Arnold today. |
| 00:31:05.36 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 00:31:05.41 | Jonathan Leone | Bye. |
| 00:31:05.44 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 00:31:13.95 | Sherri Lynn Campbell | If I can just say, Jonathan, that You have my respect and very many levels and that that's going a long ways. |
| 00:31:18.71 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 00:31:18.72 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 00:31:23.74 | Sherri Lynn Campbell | for very many reasons. But the reason why I'm here is because of real foods. I don't think that we need to reinvent the wheel here. And I would like to suggest that in the... hospices of when Cameron and cohorts leave, which we're hoping will be more sooner than that the building that has been modified a little bit at least to standard some code be considered as a place for the real food contingent to exist. And I would be perfectly willing to write up a business plan to that effect. Okay. Um, I mean... I'm a big time liberal and I have been my whole life and I've lived over in Danville and I've lived in a another part of the world that I was happy with until I came here. And I realized I should have been here my whole life. So Thank you. Real foods is comparable to some of the world-class health food establishments that I've seen in very needful places. I can name a few of them. Whole foods is not one of them, I'm sorry to say. I mean, it's fabulous on very many levels. It's however a Texas concern and their business philosophy is not in keeping with what we know to be our own, essentially. That if you take care of the little people, It's an indication of not only are the little people an indication of what kind of a business person you are, it's essential that we adopt that into our business structure as it should be instead of as we See you. happening all places that we could hold dear. of all places in the world uh, Berkeley and Wren should not fall short. So anyway, I won't blud her on just to say that I love real foods and I love the community and I intend to be here for a very long time. Thank you. |
| 00:33:34.67 | Herb Weiner | Thank you very much. Okay, at this time here, bring it back up and Let's move for approval of the minutes of the May 3rd meeting. So moved. |
| 00:33:47.51 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 00:33:48.58 | Herb Weiner | Yes, I can. |
| 00:33:49.23 | Mike Kelly | second. |
| 00:33:49.52 | Herb Weiner | you All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Okay. All right, moving on to the consent calendar. this time here. Do we have an approval of the consent count? |
| 00:34:03.76 | Linda Pfeifer | I had one comment. |
| 00:34:05.18 | Herb Weiner | Okay. Also member of Kaisers. |
| 00:34:05.30 | Linda Pfeifer | Okay. Thank you. Let's see. Regarding the MarinShip Land Use and Business Inventory Report. I remember when staff presented this, one of the comments was to include something with respect to land use density as well. And because I guess they did not look at that in terms of land mass, how much land mass these different businesses represent in the MarinShip. that perhaps they could include that in the report, just a reference that they did not include that? |
| 00:34:44.16 | Herb Weiner | Okay, so noted. Okay. |
| 00:34:48.46 | Jonathan Leone | I think the main goal of this was to actually just figure out who the heck was down there and not rely on the landlord's stated rent rolls. And these were just actual went around, poked around, and see who was down there to make sure they were in compliance and to make sure there was. |
| 00:34:51.65 | Herb Weiner | and the heck is down there and not rely on it. |
| 00:35:00.99 | Diane Andrews | Yeah. |
| 00:35:04.75 | Diane Andrews | Mm-hmm. |
| 00:35:05.02 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 00:35:06.20 | Jonathan Leone | make sure we knew what businesses were there versus conjecture. |
| 00:35:10.74 | Herb Weiner | Okay. Do you have an approval of the consent calendar? |
| 00:35:15.73 | Mike Kelly | I'll move into a second. |
| 00:35:18.43 | Herb Weiner | Was it? OK. All right, good. All right. |
| 00:35:19.28 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 00:35:22.40 | Jonathan Leone | Okay, all in favor? Aye. Opposed? |
| 00:35:24.49 | Herb Weiner | Okay, all in favor? Aye. Opposed? Thank you very much. Okay, moving on to the next item. we have his on an appeal filed by michael rex of the Planning Commission interpretation regarding non-conforming structure zoning ordinance section 10.6 to point zero five oh a and Lily please |
| 00:35:52.22 | Lily (Staff) | Good evening, Mayor, Councilmembers. He's loaded. |
| 00:36:08.49 | Lily (Staff) | The item before you tonight is an appeal of a Planning Commission interpretation regarding Chapter 1062 of the Zoning Ordinance regarding nonconforming structures. And non-conforming structures are those structures that are not in compliance with the zoning ordinance but were established legally. As Sausalito is an older city, there are a number of properties that contain such nonconforming structures. And structures can be nonconforming for a variety of reasons, including |
| 00:36:32.30 | Unknown | City. |
| 00:36:40.80 | Lily (Staff) | encroachments into setbacks, exceeding height requirements, exceeding floor area ratio requirements, and building coverage requirements. Chapter 1062 of the Zoning Ordinance provides a process for demolition and additions to nonconforming structures. |
| 00:37:00.65 | Lily (Staff) | couple of terms as defined by the zoning ordinance. And there are two different types of demolition. Involuntary means that the structure was destroyed by a natural event like a fire or an earthquake. Involuntary means that the demolition was a premeditated act of the property owner. The other term is the amount of demolition. Substantial means that more than 51% or more of the structure has been demolished or altered. and partial means that less than 51% of the structures demolished or altered. And lastly, there are two different types of reconstruction. The first is replication, which means that the new structure matches as best as possible due to current building codes, the older structure or the preexisting structure. The definition of substantial remodel means that it's basically anything that's not a replication. |
| 00:38:03.35 | Lily (Staff) | Chapter 1062 of the zoning ordinance outlines a process for the modification of a nonconforming structure and it establishes a permitting process called a nonconformity permit in order to allow the nonconforming feature of the structure to remain. If a residence is destroyed involuntarily, such as by a fire, the property owner can replicate the structure, meaning they can build what was there before and keep the nonconformity with only a building permit if they get the building permit within one year of the fire. If it's been over one year, the homeowner would need to apply for a nonconformity permit in order to keep the non-conforming feature. and replicate the structure. If the homeowner wanted to change the look of the home and it was destroyed by a fire, they could keep the nonconforming feature with a nonconformity permit and a design review permit. If the homeowner wanted to voluntarily, so on their own accord, alter less than 51% of the home, they could replicate it and maintain the non-conforming feature of the home. with just a nonconformity permit. Likewise, if they wanted to voluntarily alter more than 51% of the home, they could also maintain the nonconformity with a nonconformity permit. The matter before you tonight is what the code says if a property owner wanted to partially or substantially demolish the residence and remodel it, meaning make it look different, while still maintaining the nonconformity. and staff has determined that the code is unclear as to what the process is and has issued an interpretation. |
| 00:39:40.54 | Carolyn Ford | here. |
| 00:39:47.30 | Lily (Staff) | In November of 2008, staff identified this conflict between two listed permitting procedures in the nonconformity permit section. Subsection 5A of 1062050 states that any nonconforming structure that is voluntarily and substantially demolished may be remodeled, subject to a nonconformity permit and design review permit approval. And then subsection A6B, there's two sixes, so we've called one A and one B. states that a nonconforming structure that is voluntarily demolished cannot be substantially remodeled unless it is brought into full code compliance or a variance is obtained. |
| 00:40:37.88 | Lily (Staff) | Both of these subsections address the removal and reconstruction with a different design of up to 100% of an existing non-conforming structure. However, they both provide different permitting processes. In order to describe these different procedures, we'll start with this example of a house, this diagram here. And the house encroaches into the required five-foot setback. It's existing and it was legally constructed. So it's a nonconforming structure. Subsection 5, or subsection A5 states that If the structure is voluntarily demolished over 51%, it may be remodeled with a nonconformity permit and a design review permit. This means that the whole house, up to the whole house could be removed and a new structure allowed to be built with the same encroachment into the setback. And the new structure would be allowed to look completely different. It could have been a one-story structure and go to a two-story structure. Subsection states that If the structure is voluntarily demolished, it cannot be remodeled, so it cannot look different unless it's brought into code compliance, which means that it needs to be moved out of the setback. Or the other option is to request a variance for the encroachment. |
| 00:42:02.89 | Lily (Staff) | The zoning ordinance specifies that if there are unclear provisions in the ordinance, the is allowed to make an interpretation. Additionally, the Community Development Director is allowed to refer the interpretation to the Planning Commission for a determination. |
| 00:42:16.14 | Unknown | COMMISSIONER. |
| 00:42:19.53 | Lily (Staff) | The zoning ordinance also specifies that any unclear provisions are to be corrected by amending the zoning ordinance as soon as practical. Staff's interpretation was that the two subsections are in conflict as they address both, they both address the removal and reconstruction with a different design up to 100% of an existing nonconforming structure, but they provide two different permitting processes. Staff's interpretation and subsequently the Planning Commission's determination was that A6B prevails over A5. |
| 00:42:56.99 | Lily (Staff) | The first reason for this interpretation is support from Table 1062-1. This table summarizes Section A. In the table, there's no option for one to receive a nonconformity permit and a design review permit as described in subsection 5A. Also, the table lists a voluntary substantial remodel as being, quote, not permitted and that a variance must be obtained. |
| 00:43:25.34 | Lily (Staff) | Additionally, there's section 1062.070, and this section describes when nonconformity permits are required for remodels. It lists subsections A1, A2, and A4, but not A5. If one was able to apply for a nonconformity permit and a design review permit for the voluntary substantial demolition, A5 should have been listed in this section. |
| 00:43:56.09 | Lily (Staff) | Additionally, staff conducted cursory reviews of approvals from 2004 through 2008. which was before the official interpretation was issued. And we found five projects which were required to obtain variances to maintain nonconformities due to the remodel of a nonconforming structure where more than 51 percent of the existing structure was to be removed. Also we found four projects that were required to obtain nonconformity permits for a remodel where less than 51 percent of the structure was to be removed. In some of the staff reports for the nonconforming projects, there's discussion regarding what would happen if during construction it was found that more than 51 percent of the structure needed to be removed. In the staff reports, it states that if that situation happens, that the applicant would need to come back and request a variance for that removal of the structure. We were unable to find an example of a project which was required to receive a design review permit and a nonconformity permit for the remodel of a nonconforming structure where more than 51% of the structure was to be removed. Therefore, we determined that Planning Commission approvals since 2004 have been consistent with the interpretation. And the interpretation did not change the way that the city has been applying the code. It just merely formalized it. |
| 00:45:13.94 | Jonathan Leone | and the interpretation. |
| 00:45:19.99 | Jonathan Leone | Could you just repeat that first sentence? They just... It isn't all one sentence that was. Thank you. |
| 00:45:26.32 | Lily (Staff) | The planning, we determined that the Planning Commission approvals from 2004 have been consistent with this interpretation of planning staff. |
| 00:45:40.63 | Lily (Staff) | In January of this year, Michael Rex met with staff to discuss the staff interpretation. After two meetings, staff decided that the Planning Commission was the most appropriate body to hear and make a determination on the interpretation of the unclear provisions. In February, the Planning Commission held their first hearing on the determination, and it was continued for additional noticing as requested by the public. In March, the Planning Commission held a second hearing, and they determined by resolution that there was a conflict in the text and that the subsection A6B superseded A5. In late March, Michael Rex appealed the Planning Commission decision to the City Council. |
| 00:46:31.39 | Lily (Staff) | Steph has identified seven grounds for appeal in Mr. Rex's appeal letter. The first ground is that the conflict is between the text and the table. And as stated previously, the conflict identified was between two sections of the text itself, specifically subsections 5-1. |
| 00:46:41.40 | Unknown | you |
| 00:46:41.59 | Unknown | Thank you. and as, |
| 00:46:51.64 | Lily (Staff) | A5 and A6B. Table 1062-1 lists a requirement to obtain a variance for voluntary substantial demolition and remodel which supports the interpretation of staff. The second ground is the statement that staff decided that 51% or more alteration constitutes a total demolition. And staff did not determine what constitutes a total demolition. This is defined in the zoning ordinance as a substantial demolition. as the removal, replacement, or alteration of one 51% or more of the lineal footage of such existing elements as the interior or exterior walls or to 51% or more of the area of existing floors, ceilings, and roofs as determined by the community development director. Therefore, the removal, replacement, or alteration of 52% of a building is treated the same per the zoning ordinance definition as the removal of 100% of the building. And this is something that not – that staff didn't interpret. It's in the zoning ordinance definitions. The third ground is that the variance findings are more difficult to make than nonconformity permit findings. This statement is true. To receive a variance, the property owner needs to demonstrate that there is an exceptional circumstance on the lot that causes the owner a hardship if they had to comply with the strict codes, and therefore they need an exception from the codes. If a property owner is going to remove more than 51% of the structure and remodel it to perhaps look completely different, they will need to request a variance to maintain the nonconformity or design the house to comply with the current codes. |
| 00:48:37.68 | Lily (Staff) | The fourth ground is that the nonconformity permit process was established so that a homeowner can undertake a major renovation without forfeiting the nonconformity aspect of the building. and that the interpretation is inconsistent with the intent of the zoning ordinance. And this is not true. There are many situations when a homeowner could request a nonconformity permit to maintain a nonconforming aspect of the residence. For example, if the house burns down, the homeowner could request to replicate it with a nonconformity permit. or remodel it with a non-conformity permit and a design review permit. Similarly, if the house burns down, the homeowner wanted to Similarly, if the homeowner wanted to voluntarily take the house down, they could replicate it and keep the nonconformity with a nonconformity permit. The nonconformity permit provisions also allow the homeowner to shift the nonconformity around on the property from one area to another under certain circumstances with a nonconformity permit. The only instance where a variance is required to keep the nonconformity would be when the homeowner wants to demolish over 51 percent. Thank you. Keep the nonconforming feature and construct a new structure which does not look like the old structure. Staff has concluded that this is consistent with the intent of the nonconforming uses and structures chapter of the zoning ordinance. The fifth ground is that the interpretation encourages homeowners to tear down houses rather than restore them. This is not factual. If a homeowner wanted to restore or replicate an older home which has a nonconforming feature, they would be allowed to with a nonconformity permit. However, if the homeowner wanted to conduct a substantial remodel, which, for example, could involve adding a second story to a one-story house or changing the appearance of the residence, then a variance would be required in order to maintain the nonconforming feature. |
| 00:50:32.79 | Lily (Staff) | The sixth ground is that the interpretation should have been referred to the legislative committee for review. As mentioned before, the zoning ordinance outlines the process for interpretations of the code when the code is not clear. Staff is not able to refer matters to the legislative committee, and this direction needs to come from the council. The process is that the staff would make an interpretation and then, as soon as practical, amend the code or go through the process to amend the code. The amendment of the code would provide ample opportunity for the public to be involved in the process, and the text amendment wouldn't necessarily need to reflect or end up reflecting what the interpretation was. However, in the meantime, staff needs to be able to answer questions at the counter regarding the zoning ordinance and continue processing current planning applications. The seventh ground is that a text amendment is not a good use of time and the legislative committee should consider the interpretation. An amendment is required to formally modify the text and the zoning ordinance. And in the meantime, it's important that interpretation be issued so that day-to-day operations of the planning division can continue. If an interpretation is not issued and the council directs staff to proceed with a text amendment, a moratorium on processing of projects involving nonconformity permits should be established. Staff has received seven letters regarding this matter. Two are in your staff report, and we received five as late mail. Three of the letters are in support of denying the appeal. Three are in support of upholding the appeal. And there's another asking who can appeal Planning Commission decisions. And for the council's reference, the code does not limit appeals to city residents or homeowners. Any affected party can appeal a Planning Commission decision. |
| 00:52:34.91 | Lily (Staff) | Staff recommends that the council deny the appeal and affirm the Planning Commission's determination regarding nonconforming structures. Alternatively, the City Council may uphold the appeal and direct staff to return with a resolution with an alternative interpretation or direct staff to return with an ordinance which establishes a moratorium on processing of projects involving nonconforming structures until the text amendment of this section is formalized or the council could continue the public hearing for more information. And that concludes our staff report. We're available for questions. |
| 00:53:14.60 | Herb Weiner | Thank you, Lily. Do we have any questions from the council? |
| 00:53:18.91 | Lily (Staff) | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:53:21.54 | Herb Weiner | Okay, then thank you Lily. |
| 00:53:24.80 | Mike Kelly | I do this. How many variances on this issue have been denied since some date? |
| 00:53:37.54 | Lily (Staff) | that all of the variances that we found for these types of structures were approved. We've listed them in the Planning Commission staff report for March 16th, which I have right in front of me. |
| 00:54:00.27 | Lily (Staff) | Give me one moment. |
| 00:54:09.72 | Lily (Staff) | We found six... that were five that were approved and the planning commission last month approved another one for a variance. |
| 00:54:21.26 | Unknown | and none were denied. |
| 00:54:22.96 | Lily (Staff) | to my knowledge. |
| 00:54:31.89 | Herb Weiner | At this time here, can I have a show of hands of how many people that would like to speak about this item? |
| 00:54:34.96 | Unknown | of us. |
| 00:54:41.97 | Herb Weiner | Okay. |
| 00:54:44.41 | Mary Wagner | Mr. Mayor, we typically let the applicant go first, and they have 10 minutes. It's listed here in your report for their whole team. They have 10 minutes. Then public comment on the three minutes. And then the applicant appellant has an opportunity to rebut for five minutes. |
| 00:54:48.56 | Herb Weiner | Okay. |
| 00:54:49.05 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:55:02.76 | Herb Weiner | Okay. Michael. |
| 00:55:09.51 | Michael Rex | Well, I'm Michael Rex, and I filed this appeal, so I appreciate you taking the time to hear it. Um. I'm speaking on a volunteer basis. I'm not representing any client on a fee basis. I am bringing this before you because I've been an architect in town here for 30 years and I could bring to you a perspective. Um, based on two things. One, we deal with homeowners trying to remodel their old homes in town on a regular basis. So I kind of know how the rubber meets the road here and how these codes get applied directly and how it affects people's lives and property values. Also, I was present during the hearings when this chapter was being deliberated and written, so I have an institutional knowledge about what was intended. Really, before you tonight, there's two key questions. uh, when somebody has an old home that needs major remodeling, and was built long before the zoning ordinance, so it has nonconformities. Should this town require a variance or should they require a nonconformity permit? Because the findings are very different. Fundamental question. The other question is, We all agree that there's conflict in the wording of our code. that needs to be corrected. The question is how. The staff and planning commission have chosen to throw out a section that I think is beneficial to the town. And... The suggestion is that instead that this matter be referred to the legislative committee where we can have a of roundtable discussions, to look at alternatives instead of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. and come up with a win-win, where we preserve the intent of the code but solve the conflicts in wording. That's what's been requested and that opportunity has been rejected. That was a process that worked very well when You recall recently when the construction time limit ordinance was proposed, the legislative committee came up with some good solutions there. It's very hard to come up with good solutions when you have three minutes to speak to a It's also working quite well currently when the Planning Commission sent to their sub, created a subcommittee to review a zoning amendment to regulate single family homes in multi-unit zoning districts. That committee has been meeting regularly and I think you'll see shortly some very good solutions coming out of that effort. That could be a similar process here. Um, On these two sections of the code, you know, comparing item five where it says the non-conforming structure that is voluntarily and substantially demolished may be remodeled. All you need is a non-conformity permit. and design review. Um, as opposed to section what they call 6B, A non-conforming structure that is voluntarily demolished cannot be substantially remodeled unless you receive a variance. Staff is saying that those are in conflict. Well, they're not in conflict. They're fundamentally different. There's a fundamental difference between a substantial remodel and a full demolition No one's disputing, if you tear your building down, you've got to follow the code. 100% demolition requires the variance, if you don't. We agree on that. Where the rub is is between the 51% and the 100%. There are many homes in this town that are in serious dilapidated conditions, little tiny rooms full of dry rot that need more than 51% alteration. It could just be the interior walls. You may not change the building mass at all. It used to be, and maybe you remember this, people played a game. They would kind of keep one wall up and call it, you know, it's not demolition. And it infuriated everybody because it seemed like applicants were gaming the system. Since this chapter was written from scratch in 2003, we haven't had that problem. Um, Going through that creation of this nonconformity permit, there was a sense that there was a need that somebody should be able to do a major renovation and not necessarily replicate what's there. and not punished and give up some of the non-conformities that exist. they Some of these cottages you wouldn't want to replicate. They're not particularly attractive. And the town felt, the planning commission that deliberated with us back then, that it shouldn't be locked into a state standard which sets the findings for variances. which requires, as you know, something unique about that, physically unique and unusual about that property. That strict application of code creates a hardship. There's times where there isn't something particularly unusual about the lot, and you really can't find a hardship, but we want to encourage people to keep these buildings intact. Staff argues that If you don't require a variance, you might all of a sudden get much bigger buildings or something by giving, allowing these non-conformities to exist. Well, that could happen. But that's not necessarily so. We just, in fact, the picture of that first house you saw on 4th Street was a project we're involved in. We submitted for a nonconformity permit and were told we needed a variance. And yet, that what was proposed was no change whatsoever to the building mass or its footprint from what you'd see from the street. There was a small addition in the back. Um, What we were looking for is tearing down almost all the interior walls because 9x9 rooms just don't work for people in this day and age. You couldn't really live in this cottage anymore, and yet that's what the applicant wanted to keep. Why would we make it harder to remodel those kind of homes. Why would we scare people with variance findings? Ten years ago, we didn't. Ten years ago, we created this opportunity for a non-conforming permit. We never had such a permit before. It was created just to regulate these kind of things. And to suggest now that if you remodel more than 51% of vertical components or horizontal components, it's suddenly going to be considered and treated exactly like 100% demolition. Well, I think that's a shame. I think there's a benefit to creating a vehicle outside the variance approach to make a significant remodel without necessarily replicating what's there. Uh, without those kind of draconian findings. It's still going to go through the entire design review process. You're still going to, in fact, the findings for a nonconformity permit require that it be compatible in the neighborhood and won't have a detriment to the public welfare. It has all the same design review findings that have to be made for any project. So there's plenty of scrutiny on a case by case basis. Um, I'm asking for one simple thing here. that you send it to the Legislative Committee where we can get people who really know how these things apply in the real world, like architects and property owners real estate people, and figure out how to correct these discrepancies. without losing the benefit of this nonconformity permit. Uh, offers. It's simply that is the request and why the appeal fundamentally was made, because we were denied that opportunity. Thank you. |
| 01:03:25.43 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 01:03:26.90 | Mike Kelly | Michael, you brought up the interior wall issue. Can you tell me what, since you were involved in this in 2003 and before, what your perception of why interior walls were included in a 51% demolition? Not Jonathan's answer. I want your answer. |
| 01:03:29.07 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 01:03:47.16 | Michael Rex | Um, Well, first of all, the way it's described in the ordinance is vertical elements. So it'd be walls. horizontal elements. |
| 01:03:58.60 | Mike Kelly | And it's specifically stated that Peter Walton... |
| 01:04:00.07 | Michael Rex | So it's not, I don't think that means finishes. It's really the structure, the floor systems, the ceilings, the roofs would be the horizontal members. |
| 01:04:07.80 | Unknown | Right. |
| 01:04:08.26 | Michael Rex | and the vertical elements, that's what it's called, would be your walls, both exterior or interior. Well, you could remodel more than 51% of vertical elements and not impact the building's shell at all. |
| 01:04:15.70 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:04:22.23 | Mike Kelly | Well, I guess that's my point. |
| 01:04:24.14 | Michael Rex | Yeah. |
| 01:04:24.93 | Mike Kelly | what have interior walls got to do with footprints, not exterior vertical walls? Okay. |
| 01:04:32.51 | Michael Rex | It doesn't necessarily change the footprint or the building mass. |
| 01:04:35.32 | Mike Kelly | I'm not. So why would it, if I decided to model my house and I wanted to take down all the walls because I wanted to reconfigure it but I wasn't going to touch the exterior, |
| 01:04:45.41 | Michael Rex | I think they're trying to, at some point, you've altered so much. There's really not much left of that building. And it's not. |
| 01:04:45.95 | Mike Kelly | I think they're trying to... |
| 01:04:54.44 | Michael Rex | The word isn't demo. It's alter. Well, you can alter an exterior wall, for example, just by moving a window or something. The wall stays in the same place. Well, some of these little cottages have little tiny windows and we're looking right at the city and the bay and you want a big window. So all of a sudden, so you can capture a little more view, you're altering and you're starting to get into that 51% mode. I'll tell you what'll happen, Mike. We're gonna end up with people playing games again. They're gonna pretend to, you know, we're gonna have to have a police force to count 51% and make sure it's... |
| 01:05:26.20 | Mike Kelly | and make sure it's... Let me catch it with Chase. What if we took away all interior walls? We just took it out entirely, so it's now entirely vertical exterior walls. |
| 01:05:37.63 | Michael Rex | I think if we concentrated more on the perceived building mass, that might be something worth pointing to. And what you're suggesting is I think there's a lot of alternatives that could be considered, but we've never had that dialogue. In fact, I have to object when staff says I had two meetings with city staff on this, with the city attorney. We had one meeting, I presented my arguments. I was told it would be taken under advisement. And I came to a second meeting and was told it's been decided to send it to the Planning Commission. So we didn't really have a dialogue and even on the Planning Commission, the chair was quite concerned about what was being proposed. But when it came to voting, he was absent from that hearing. And one of the commissioners said he didn't really understand the matter. Joan Cox wanted to send it to committee, but she couldn't get two commissioners to agree. So I don't even think what's proposed was given a real full scrutiny. Thank you. There are options we could and should consider. That would be better. Thank you. |
| 01:06:45.40 | Herb Weiner | Any other questions? |
| 01:06:45.97 | Michael Rex | She's. |
| 01:06:46.43 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 01:06:46.44 | Michael Rex | Thank you. |
| 01:06:47.84 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 01:06:47.86 | Mike Kelly | I don't like all the questions. Now I'll take your answer. No, I'll save that for later. Okay. Okay. |
| 01:06:49.38 | Michael Rex | Okay. |
| 01:06:50.95 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:06:50.98 | Michael Rex | Thank you. |
| 01:06:51.03 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:06:51.05 | Jonathan Leone | I'll save that for later. |
| 01:06:53.38 | Herb Weiner | Okay. |
| 01:06:53.80 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 01:06:53.87 | Mike Kelly | I was going to ask you a question. |
| 01:06:53.92 | Jonathan Leone | I was going to ask the question, though. That's OK. |
| 01:06:55.39 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 01:06:58.20 | Herb Weiner | Okay. Can I see another hand? |
| 01:07:01.58 | Jonathan Leone | Can I ask a little question? |
| 01:07:02.41 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 01:07:02.71 | Herb Weiner | Go ahead, Lily. |
| 01:07:03.54 | Jonathan Leone | Lily, what, and I'm trying to find it from the staff report and then track it back to the zoning, ask what page in the zoning ordinance has those, substantial remodel definition. Do you remember what section |
| 01:07:15.47 | Lily (Staff) | Yeah, it's in 1088. It's in the definitions section. I can get you the page number. |
| 01:07:20.41 | Jonathan Leone | No, it's OK. Because that 1088 refers back to Section 62. It's in here somewhere, but it's not. |
| 01:07:27.14 | Lily (Staff) | Thank you. |
| 01:07:27.38 | Mike Kelly | I'm not. within the place. |
| 01:07:28.09 | Jonathan Leone | It's under some other subheading. |
| 01:07:28.75 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 01:07:28.76 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:07:28.83 | Mike Kelly | understand. |
| 01:07:29.27 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:07:29.37 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 01:07:30.67 | Lily (Staff) | As far as what the definition of demolition is? Is that what? |
| 01:07:32.83 | Jonathan Leone | Is that what? |
| 01:07:33.84 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 01:07:33.91 | Lily (Staff) | Thank you. |
| 01:07:33.95 | Unknown | Thanks for having me. |
| 01:07:34.35 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 01:07:34.45 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:07:34.59 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 01:07:40.58 | Lily (Staff) | It's on page 7 of 1088. |
| 01:07:51.58 | Unknown | It's on our packet, it's page two, which says a mounted demolition. |
| 01:07:58.40 | Jonathan Leone | Yeah, that's demolition, but it's not... That's not what you're talking about? That's not remote. Oh. Thanks. |
| 01:08:01.00 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:08:01.03 | Mike Kelly | Listen to... Thank you. Thank you. |
| 01:08:04.52 | Linda Pfeifer | I see page 3 of 16. |
| 01:08:05.77 | Jonathan Leone | So, for me, |
| 01:08:06.73 | Lily (Staff) | Thank you. |
| 01:08:08.05 | Jonathan Leone | Yeah, the remodel's back in the, so I think, anyway. |
| 01:08:12.05 | Lily (Staff) | Thank you. |
| 01:08:12.08 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:08:12.12 | Lily (Staff) | for the letter of the code. Are you looking at the zoning ordinance? |
| 01:08:14.43 | Jonathan Leone | ARE YOU WANT TO GET |
| 01:08:16.66 | Lily (Staff) | Yeah, it's on page 18 of 1088. |
| 01:08:19.09 | Jonathan Leone | Right. Yeah, so I think. you in any way. I know, thanks. I think there's some reading of some sections that aren't applicable to those sections in terms of these definitions. You're getting it right. |
| 01:08:32.28 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. Thank you. It's good. |
| 01:08:39.00 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 01:08:39.03 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 01:08:39.07 | Jonathan Leone | Okay. |
| 01:08:39.12 | Jonathan Leone | The demolition part is not referred to as a remodel. Demolition is demolition, not a remodel. Not much substantial and partial remodel. That's why it refers to interior walls. That has to do with the demo permit side and the sprinklers and all that other good stuff. It has nothing to do with remodel criteria. |
| 01:08:58.29 | Unknown | substantially more. |
| 01:09:00.60 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 01:09:02.98 | Herb Weiner | Okay. |
| 01:09:06.08 | Mary Wagner | YOU DON'T. |
| 01:09:06.35 | Unknown | three. |
| 01:09:06.61 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 01:09:06.62 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. No, I was not piping in. Was there a question for me? |
| 01:09:09.41 | Mike Kelly | or something. Well, he wouldn't. |
| 01:09:11.64 | Mary Wagner | Substantial remodel is not defined. There's remodel and replication. |
| 01:09:11.72 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 01:09:17.41 | Mike Kelly | And remodel does not, the 51% interior or exterior only applies to demolition, not to remodel. |
| 01:09:25.02 | Mary Wagner | Right. |
| 01:09:25.61 | Mike Kelly | Okay. |
| 01:09:28.95 | Jonathan Leone | Okay. The nonconformity is very different from the remodel criteria, and the demolition criteria are very different from the remodel and from the nonconformity criteria. Thank you. |
| 01:09:42.72 | Herb Weiner | Okay, at this time here, I'd like to hear from the public on that. Can I see you raise your hands on those again that would like to speak? Okay, all right. I'd like you to come up. One at a time, please. And the next person could stand behind Mike and we'll move it. So I'd like another person that would like to speak next up |
| 01:10:06.92 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:10:06.95 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 01:10:06.97 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:10:07.00 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 01:10:07.04 | Unknown | you |
| 01:10:07.09 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 01:10:07.12 | Unknown | Mike Wanceff at 211.40. |
| 01:10:07.24 | Herb Weiner | Mike Kwan. |
| 01:10:11.29 | Unknown | I happen to be, I guess, two of the council were there when I apply for my house. I have properties. in that area. Lot of substandard lots. And When I apply for my house, It was a duplex, small house, and the fact that I was trying to, demolished more than 51%. and ultimately I argue in front of you guys and I was able to get non-confirmity to the fact to build my house. I'm an architect and I'm a contractor and I'm a real estate agent. If I wouldn't have done that, It would have hurt me financially because I couldn't have a house that it would be worth later on if I wanted to sell my house. And second, is that I could not apply the zoning code as it applies today for those kind of lots. The mayor knows that there's a lot of lots on that street that are 30 by 100 foot. and by the time you Do five foot on each side, sit back. and another five foot four walking to your front door, It leaves you about 15 feet, probably two feet in each one, one in a frugal, you get one foot from each side, you don't have enough garage door to get two cars in. So, In a situation like that, you've got to understand The non-confirming on the substandard lot, it has to go through this process. It's not going to work. Thank you. because we are facing a problem which had sometimes ago Five people sit over there and said 30 by 100 is a buildable lot. So, I don't know whether that's gonna affect on the Flory ratio, which probably it would, but Still, I want to have Livable law. Liveable house. So, I just want to bring an example to you that this non-confirmity on a substandard law. It's something that you have to really pay attention to it. because you are going to damage a lot of people. Thank you. |
| 01:12:47.35 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 01:12:47.55 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:12:47.74 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 01:12:47.75 | Unknown | you |
| 01:12:48.04 | Mark Rushford | Thank you. |
| 01:12:48.06 | Unknown | Next. |
| 01:12:48.55 | Mark Rushford | Thank you. |
| 01:12:50.59 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:12:50.60 | Mark Rushford | State your name, please. Hi, Mark Rushford. I'm a real estate agent in town and I'll keep it really short. I'm in full support of Michael Rex's direction, what he'd like to do to have a discussion where I think some other solutions can come out versus the three-minute discussion that we seem to have in the previous planning meetings, which I've been a part of. Thank you. |
| 01:13:18.15 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. Dennis? |
| 01:13:24.03 | Dennis Webb | Hi, my name is Dennis Webb. I'm a homeowner in Sausalito. I'm also a building contractor here. I am in total support of Michael Rex's |
| 01:13:36.66 | Dennis Webb | idea. One of the big things here is safety too. A lot of people aren't looking at it. In Sausalito, it takes an act of God just to get a permit. to do practically nothing, okay? And just this whole other layer is ridiculous. One of the main things is just just altering the inside walls. For instance, if someone wanted to come and upgrade their electrical, because it's all knob and tube, All the circuits are overloaded. There's no insulation in the walls. Um, There's no fire sheet rockets plaster. basically just wanted to Make it safe. Change the electrical and re-sheetrock. I would have to go through this whole process. In San Francisco, I can go in, and get a resheet rock and a rewire walk out with a permit in three and a half hours. And anybody can come with me and I can show you how to do it. Very simple. electrical plan. remove and replace sheet rock. done. Right here, this would take a variance now. and a whole other process. It could possibly take you two years in order to make your house safe. So if someone's house burned, what do you? People would feel guilty. So it's not just... It's not just affecting the exterior changes, it's just the interior changes which is ridiculous. I feel we should sit down and have a round table discussion because there's a There's a lot of I's that could be dotted and T's crossed, and this isn't common sense thinking at all. Thank you. |
| 01:15:26.70 | Mary Kay Yamamoto | Mary Kay Yamamoto. I'm the president of the Marin Association of Realtors. I also support Michael Rex's idea for people to sit down and figure out a way to make this work for all parties involved. and not rush to make some kind of a decision about a reinterpretation of a code that was written for a specific purpose. Thank you. |
| 01:15:52.43 | Herb Weiner | Alice? |
| 01:15:57.33 | Alice Merrill | Alice Merrill. I think that the Planning Commission is a pretty thoughtful group. I think that they think hard about what they're doing and they're looking at They're looking at things like this from the point of view of the people who live in the town and not just, I mean, people who are wanting to remodel live in the town, but with the big picture. And maybe they're... not just rushing to a conclusion, but they're actually thinking about it and thinking that Things have happened in this town that maybe aren't the greatest and maybe we need to step back and take a minute and do it more thoughtfully. That's what I think. |
| 01:16:51.29 | Chris Gibson | Chris Gibson, I'm a property owner in Sausalito and a daring steward of a 100 year old house on the hill. very interested in maintaining the integrity of the House, so the interior walls is quite a surprise that you'd have to go through this much effort to really look after the permitting process. I thought the city presented very well, and I'll have to say made some very good points, and yet I'm very much in support of Michael Rex's position to have a further comment and legislative committee review on this matter. I think that's just prudent and it would bring the integrity to the process. So I give a great nod to anybody that's got 30 years experience and I think is the most prolific architect here in town. And I will have to say I will point out that when I have my own issue to review that I did to do the due diligence to find out who was seemingly one of the most knowledgeable in town, so. I am under fee for Michael, and I came here not knowing that this is his issue tonight. It was just to see how the process works. So that's Michael. |
| 01:18:07.77 | Herb Weiner | Okay, Diane. |
| 01:18:11.96 | Diane Andrews | My name is Diane Andrews, and I am a homeowner here in town for 25 years or plus. as well as a realtor, and I also suggests that we do have some type of round table discussion What was brought up at the last meeting also, I really think that the public really needs to know about this. It should be on the front page of the Marin IJ, maybe on the front page of the MarinScope because I contacted some clients of mine to say, I think your house might be legal non-conforming. Are you aware of this meeting? You should go to it. they couldn't and they couldn't believe what may be happening as law and she didn't know. And her words were, that's outrageous and criminal. So, I just think people really need to be aware because it's a very significant impact. It's costly. It has huge financial implications for Um, you people buying or not buying or choosing not to buy in Sausalito and the cost to do this is really exorbitant and I think having a a more open round table discussion with more ideas. is a great idea to do. And I just think, again, our public needs to be much more aware that this is happening and they are still not aware of it. It should be posted at Molly Stone's, Golden Gate Market. everywhere. People just are not aware and this huge amount of homes in Sausalito, huge amount. That's it. Thank you. |
| 01:19:50.15 | Jonathan Leone | Can I ask you a question before you sit? Yeah. Is it the interior part that's the most troublesome in your mind in terms of having an added step of |
| 01:19:59.28 | Diane Andrews | I think it's this whole variance issue of, you know, the 51% and if you're maintaining the the exterior That's fine. And I think this safety issue is huge. I mean, it's very costly. We have knob and tube in so many homes, and if someone wants to improve it, And that first issue that came up It's going to be all a sneaky process again. People are going to be going doing that whole thing again, that's what's gonna happen. because it's just too costly and there People come in from the outside and Again, they can't believe it. You know, I mean, I hear it all the time. I mean, I hear it all the time. I deal with builders, developers, and we don't want Sausalito. They don't want to come close. that just don't want to bother. and the homeowners. It's just way too costly for them if they understand which they don't. that they will have to be getting into a variance. It's just enormous, enormous impact. And they, again, really need to be aware of this. Not aware. |
| 01:21:17.38 | Herb Weiner | Thank you, Diane. |
| 01:21:18.31 | Adam Krivace | as well. |
| 01:21:18.46 | Herb Weiner | of the program. |
| 01:21:22.80 | Adam Krivace | Good evening, Adam Krivace, 840 Olima Street. I'm here because I think we have an opportunity to improve on our permit process. There was a contradiction in the zoning ordinance. Staff labored to figure out what might be the best way of solving it and staff found that past practices pointed toward the variance process rather than without the variants and I personally believe that the text was written before the table was prepared and the table was to support the text and there was a contradiction so that's technical error that needs to be corrected. And if we are correcting it one way or another, I think it gives us an opportunity to pause, think about what is the most expeditious process Thank you. because more expeditious the process is, more homes will be remodeled, updated, fixed. and more cumbersome it is fewer homes will be fixed in time before they totally deteriorate or totally replace. And if many homes are replaced in the long run, our town's image will change, we will lose our scale, our character, or we might, I shouldn't say we will, we might we might lose some of our charm and scale and character. So I urge... or we might, I shouldn't say we will, we might lose some of our charm and scale and character. So I urge the City Council and the Planning Commission to give this matter more thought than just a brief decision after listening to 18 of the city council. people opposing it, and non-supporting it at the planning commission meetings, they still supported the staff recommendation. Thank you. |
| 01:23:24.26 | Herb Weiner | Right. |
| 01:23:28.46 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 01:23:28.48 | Jonathan Leone | on your. |
| 01:23:30.86 | Adam Krivace | Thank you. |
| 01:23:30.88 | Herb Weiner | Thank you, Adam. |
| 01:23:31.85 | Adam Krivace | I'm not sure. |
| 01:23:31.97 | Herb Weiner | I'm sorry. |
| 01:23:32.02 | Jonathan Leone | Adam, can I ask you something? You have a question. |
| 01:23:32.06 | Herb Weiner | Bye. |
| 01:23:32.18 | Adam Krivace | Thank you. |
| 01:23:32.21 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 01:23:32.23 | Adam Krivace | I think it's right. |
| 01:23:32.68 | Herb Weiner | Scott, do you have a question? |
| 01:23:33.64 | Adam Krivace | Thank you. you |
| 01:23:34.30 | Jonathan Leone | Ahem. So the assumption you're making, and I'm not saying that the language is perfect, obviously it's got its issues, is that if you by having a process to allow nonconformities, which is what this process is, you would, if you remove that, you would have bigger houses. But in fact, the reality is the truth. If you didn't allow for those nonconformities, you'd have to meet all the setback, Floor area requirements you to have smaller houses than exist currently. |
| 01:24:06.57 | Adam Krivace | you would achieve two things if you build new That means you move back your two-foot setback to five feet, and so on. you may have to reconfigure your whole building. In that case, you end up to a higher percentage might as well. Uh, Go. clean slate, build a new house, And that's what I'm concerned about. people will postpone remodeling, then when somebody dies and they inherit a house or they buy a house, the airs will figure out what they can do, And, they will try to mold the place to their own needs for the next generation, which is fine. but that means we are going to be less and less who we are today and more and more a future community. And some people in this town are very concerned about keeping it the way we are. Thank you. Thanks. |
| 01:25:09.44 | Herb Weiner | you |
| 01:25:09.80 | Adam Krivace | Thank you, Adam. |
| 01:25:10.51 | Herb Weiner | you Nicole? Thank you. |
| 01:25:16.46 | Nicole Beck | Hello, my name is Nicole Beck and I live at 31 Bulkeley, which is a legal, non-conforming, multiple unit Victorian building. Erected in 1882. It is high and setbacks are not there, it has more units than are legally today allowed. And should I decide to do a lot of work on the building, one of the first variances that I would need to ask and which would probably not be provided would be parking. The second would be that I have too many units, so would you be requiring that I take out three rental units which from what I understand are very important to town because town is trying to get rental units in order to be able to obtain state financing. So, there's not only the single family house which is important in terms of legal nonconforming and nonconforming uses and substantial remodeling. There are also multiple family units that may be hit by that and that may hit the city in terms of city revenue, in terms of taxes that you levy per unit. in terms actually also of sewage taxes that we've been hit with, one tax per unit rather than one tax per parcel. I have a question that I'd like to address to staff, and that has to do with what I'd call work creep. Imagine that somebody takes a permit for a 42% remodeled demolition of horizontal and vertical surfaces. What happens if during the process, you find out that you've got termite damage that goes over 46, and we need to take down and replace some structural components of the house and suddenly hits 51%. What happens? you have to bring everything back to code with the new with the idea staff has to do without nonconforming. structures so Does anybody have an answer to that question? Would that something, you know, that the legislative committee would be thinking about What happens? Why is there something from 51% to 100%? What happens to 51 and a half percent? I mean, those are all the things. I mean, there should be also some degree of reasonableness on behalf of staff and appeals process that could be taken. Anyhow, that's what I wanted to say. Thank you. |
| 01:28:08.23 | Herb Weiner | Thank you, Nicole. to anybody else from the public that would like to speak. |
| 01:28:20.50 | Nathaniel Berkowitz | I'm Nathaniel Berkowitz. And I own the property at 47 Bulkway. I probably have one and or more non-conforming properties on this lot. some of which were probably non-conformed in 1902 when they built it. |
| 01:28:40.41 | Nathaniel Berkowitz | Be that as it may, I want to bring out to you gentlemen and ladies that keep it simple and keep it easy. This is a complexity that I've learned how to read and write. I went to school and I got a degree. I don't understand all this. because I don't want to understand it. |
| 01:29:08.14 | Herb Weiner | Does that come with age? It comes with wisdom. That's when you decide. |
| 01:29:09.85 | Nathaniel Berkowitz | with the reason it was that she was not |
| 01:29:14.01 | Herb Weiner | Yeah. |
| 01:29:14.03 | Nathaniel Berkowitz | Thank you. And I remodeled the house at 47, Berkeley, about a dozen years ago. We took out all the walls. What did we take out? We took out all of that World War II studio mishmash that was put together. I started off with something like 18 units in the property. and I voluntarily reduced it to 12. and I was warned that I would never have 12 again, et cetera, et cetera. But that wasn't the purpose. The purpose was to make a very safe and a livable structure. I now have one of these non-conforming projects that has been there since 1902 or 1901, whenever they built it. And it has three apartments. It would be a very delightful Shingle. unit. building. but that would clearly exceed your 51%. don't want to get into that hassle, so I'm going to leave it like it is. I think you've got to realize that one other fact. in this planning document, they talk about 12 months. I can't even... get a commitment. in 12 months for anything. whether it's a contract, contractor or financing or so forth. 12 months was clearly an arbitrary and an unthought stipulation. So I would like for you to realize that some of these things take a lot more time, and they take twice as much time in Sausalito as they do in the rest of the world. |
| 01:30:58.57 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:30:59.03 | Nathaniel Berkowitz | . |
| 01:31:01.79 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:31:04.04 | Nathaniel Berkowitz | There's one other thing that struck me about the staff interpretation. And I think it's immoral. I think the project is, to quote an old joke, how do you start a fire or how do you start a flood? And if you had a fire or had a flood, which many of us have had, |
| 01:31:24.24 | Herb Weiner | Go ahead. |
| 01:31:25.50 | Nathaniel Berkowitz | then you could do it pretty much the way you want to do it. And I don't think legislation that. puts that Uh... dangles that carrot out in front of you, should be part of your program. And... If you want to make a flat rule, fine. But don't make an exception for fire. You know, there are too many...it's just an unfair temptation And... it. It will happen. I won't do it. because I was properly brought up. But there will be people that do it. And we know that. and you're just making You're adding complexity to where, back to my point, is KISS, easy. Keep it simple. and keep it easy. Thank you. That's a stupid part. |
| 01:32:18.29 | Unknown | What? |
| 01:32:18.96 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you very much. |
| 01:32:20.47 | Unknown | Thank you. you |
| 01:32:20.55 | Nathaniel Berkowitz | Thank you. |
| 01:32:20.57 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:32:20.58 | Nathaniel Berkowitz | Thank you. |
| 01:32:20.97 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:32:22.14 | Leslie Aliaschar Allen | Thank you. |
| 01:32:22.19 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:32:28.28 | Leslie Aliaschar Allen | My name is Leslie Aliaschar Allen. I'm a property owner at 3234 Atwood. Our home was built in the 20s by my grandfather, and it has gone three generations now, and it is one of those pieces of property that is legal non-conforming with the need for a great deal of work done to it. I want to support Mr. Rex's suggestion that this issue be taken to a legislative format where this issue can be discussed. And. As our example, if I were to imagine the application to our house, it has to do with parking. We have a garage which is at the property line. In fact, I think some of the tile roofs actually go over the property line. Our neighbors are not particularly happy with it, but it has been grandfathered in. I know if we were to revert to all the, bring things to code and observe the setbacks, we would lose our garage. And I. I am new to this issue. Um, but I can see that there's going to be a conflict with the neighbors or a redesign of our house. Nonetheless, my point is that within Sausalito, it is a collection of very unique little houses, each with problems of their own. detail some stairways to an apartment may be close to adjacent and not respect a setback and you have no access to the apartment. So I think that a great deal more time is needed, and maybe not a blanket, solution and some more discussion is called for. Thank you. |
| 01:34:16.75 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 01:34:21.43 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:34:24.55 | Peter Van Meter | Peter Van Meter, now I'm scared. |
| 01:34:26.76 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:34:26.77 | Linda Pfeifer | Ha, ha, ha, ha. |
| 01:34:27.11 | Unknown | Ha ha ha! |
| 01:34:29.03 | Peter Van Meter | It seems like your action tonight is not any of these recommendations, but to send this to the legislative committee, set a deadline, say this shall report come back to you for your first meeting in September after your summer break with specific wording to, you know, fix this problem in the ordinance. It's obvious from all the discussion here tonight, you know, that's what you've got to do is, you know, get some people together, know what they're talking about, work through this, solve it. this interpretation is not correct. And I commend my... discussion here tonight. That's what you've got to do is get some people together and know what they're talking about, work through this, solve it. This interpretation is not correct. And I commend Michael Rex for bringing this up. Who had ever thought of something as complicated and esoteric as this? But I'll tell you, if I arrived at the counter and they said, whoops, you've got to go get a variance or whatever it may be, it's one of those gotchas that you just don't ever have to experience. Thank you. |
| 01:34:29.09 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah, it seems like |
| 01:35:16.77 | Jonathan Leone | So Peter, from your experience, what are you saying? Which aspect of the interpretation are you saying is incorrect? |
| 01:35:23.88 | Peter Van Meter | Well, the fact that if you are taking what the city's saying, And that you have to in fact go back through this variance process that they're talking about. Just like you've heard this whole line of people come up and discuss, you know, that's where you're going to have an issue here. |
| 01:35:36.20 | Jonathan Leone | Yeah, see, thanks. That brings up the main issue. Because I think Michael may |
| 01:35:39.07 | Peter Van Meter | Because I think Michael made the point very clearly. These are two materially different kinds of things. And the criteria are totally unrelated and different. |
| 01:35:48.33 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 01:35:48.47 | Peter Van Meter | That's my opinion. |
| 01:35:49.53 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 01:35:49.78 | Peter Van Meter | you |
| 01:35:49.85 | Herb Weiner | OK, Peter, thank you. Thank you. Okay, let's bring it. Go ahead, Mark. You got five. |
| 01:35:54.27 | Michael Rex | I hit my. I wanted to respond briefly to just a couple things stated. As I mentioned earlier, the rub is between 51% and something greater. Maybe what we need is a definition for demolition. It's not in there. And maybe it's something less than 100%. Maybe 90 to 100% we're going to consider you remove the building. uh, We need something to work with between 51% and a higher number. Because I tell you, we run into this all the time where we can't save less than 51%, and preserve the character of that building. And people will not give up some of those non-conformities because it would mean tearing the building down because you've got to move it over. |
| 01:36:39.66 | Jonathan Leone | But Michael, that's what the non-compromising permit allows you to do, if you've gotten termite throughout the whole house. And you didn't know about it when you came in for your first permit. it allows you to replicate that house exactly how it was. |
| 01:36:52.49 | Michael Rex | But, Appearance, be careful. Replication is appearance. |
| 01:36:55.31 | Jonathan Leone | It's not just the appearance per se, it's the footprint of the home. |
| 01:37:00.39 | Michael Rex | That's not what replication means or how it's been applied. Replication, and the staff will tell you, it has to look recently similar to what exists. |
| 01:37:12.00 | Jonathan Leone | Right, you have to replicate the home and not exacerbate the nonconformity. |
| 01:37:15.42 | Michael Rex | But replicate means it has to look like what it does. And I can tell you there's a lot of homes in this town we would not want to replicate the appearance of that home. You want people... |
| 01:37:25.26 | Jonathan Leone | Okay, is there one person speaking for you? |
| 01:37:27.40 | Michael Rex | You want to give people the ability to make improvements to the home so it looks more aesthetically pleasing and not scare them away from exploring those ideas. I can tell you when I tell people you're going to need a variance for that, I say, well, it's a 50-50 chance. We have a member of our planning commission who's up at the dais that I don't believe in giving variances. It chills people going there because of all the uncertainty. It would chill people from buying a building that needs major renovation and it would chill people from pursuing a major renovation. I can tell you that firsthand. I wouldn't be so concerned. I won't be donating my time here about this if I didn't understand that this really is a serious matter. The other thing I want to mention is that We were told that Neither staff nor the Planning Commission can direct matters to the Legislative Committee. Well, that's why it needs to come to you to make that determination. Or set up a subcommittee. Joan was hoping to do that. Apparently the planning commission can set up a subcommittee. They did for the single family home. The other thing is I don't want you to be |
| 01:38:35.44 | Jonathan Leone | The other thing. |
| 01:38:39.07 | Michael Rex | The chart that you saw here, those five projects that were approved, remember two of them were total teardowns. There were only three projects that went through this. back in 2006. Well, you know, what happened between 2003, when this section of the code was created, in 2006? There was total turnover in our city staff twice. planning director, staff, everybody. You remember that. And I think they didn't have a track record or remember all the dialogue that went into creating this section of the code. And so it started getting misapplied. Well, if it's been misapplied three times, that doesn't mean we should follow that precedent and keep doing it. Make it permanent. Change our zoning ordinance to do that permanently. I ask you, that doesn't make sense. I also, and this is the last point, I don't want you to be lulled into the fact that, well, we've granted those five variants of the past, so none have been denied. Why are you worried, Michael? I got one project right now that would fall into this category. We've been in planning for a year on this project. And when this whole matter came up, I was quite surprised. What? You're requiring a variance? That's not what 5A says. It says you can do it without a variance. You need a nonconformity permit. So I showed them this project and staff told me, well, you know, I don't know if the findings could be made. I don't know if we can support a variance for that application. And we've been in planning for a year. We're relying on 5A. So this is real world and it has direct impact on people's property and their values. We need to be more thoughtful. Please send this to the legislative committee. |
| 01:40:20.64 | Herb Weiner | Okay, let's bring it back up here. to where we want to go. |
| 01:40:28.37 | Linda Pfeifer | I have a question for staff. Really? So we heard one of the residents make the example of the knob and tube and replacing all the electric electrical in a legal non-conforming structure would trigger this 51% in the variance processes. Is that the case? |
| 01:40:50.27 | Lily (Staff) | Thank you. If more than 51% of the interior walls, vertical elements were going to be removed, the homeowner could apply for a nonconformity permit to maintain the nonconforming structure. |
| 01:41:04.16 | Mike Kelly | That one. |
| 01:41:04.79 | Lily (Staff) | And that would be the, if it was just interior work, it would be the replication. There would be no exterior changes. |
| 01:41:10.69 | Mike Kelly | that wouldn't need a variance. |
| 01:41:11.88 | Lily (Staff) | Thank you. It would not need a variance. |
| 01:41:14.85 | Linda Pfeifer | Okay, so in other words, just to be clear, if you have the old electrical wiring, you could update all of that in your house and not necessarily need that variance? |
| 01:41:25.61 | Lily (Staff) | not need a variance and not necessarily need a nonconformity permit the nonconformity permit would only be triggered if more than 51 percent of the x the interior walls or exterior walls were going to be removed or altered and |
| 01:41:38.64 | Mike Kelly | thereof. |
| 01:41:39.89 | Lily (Staff) | combination of those vertical elements and then it's also or the horizontal elements of the floor ceilings and roofs. It's one or the other. |
| 01:41:52.00 | Herb Weiner | Okay. |
| 01:41:53.45 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you, Lily. |
| 01:41:55.18 | Herb Weiner | We have any other questions? Okay. |
| 01:42:00.98 | Mike Kelly | Do you want to go or maybe I'll go? Go. Go ahead. I guess |
| 01:42:11.97 | Mike Kelly | I think I understand all of this, I think. But I tell you, it took me a lot of reading to get there and a lot of discussion. And I remember when I remodeled my house, which was not a non-conforming structure. Well, actually, the setbacks were probably not conforming. And we tore into it, and we were very careful to gauge the 51% rule and then all of a sudden we found massive termite problems and we had to take almost all the drywall in the entire house out in order to deal with the studs and other things that were diseased. Lucky me. So the then building inspector made a ruling on the scene. I didn't have to go get any permits and I didn't know about them because I've |
| 01:43:01.77 | Michael Moyle | You had permits. |
| 01:43:02.95 | Mike Kelly | Well, I had a permit. I had a permit to do what we were doing. You're selling credit for the permit. I had a permit, but we did take off more than 51% of the vertical walls and replaced them. Basically replicated them. |
| 01:43:03.11 | Linda Pfeifer | I don't know. |
| 01:43:03.17 | Michael Moyle | Thank you. We're doing it. All right. |
| 01:43:15.03 | Unknown | interior. |
| 01:43:16.14 | Mike Kelly | interior and exterior because a lot of the exterior was gone as well and you had to take the exterior off to change the studs. So in effect, it was probably a 70 or 80 percent remodel of the vertical walls. And I remember at the time, I knew something about this. I'm not sure what I knew, but I knew something about it and that's why we had to go talk to the building inspector. and he issued his ruling, as far as I know, without a ZA or without going to the Planning Commission. So it did strike fear in my heart. I was not involved in the city at that point. I had not been on the Planning Commission and I was not a council member. And I can see how difficult language, which is complicated in the way it has to be, can cause great fear. I wrote down here the parking fear, losing your unit. A Victorian house without parking. Oh my God, if I go in for a permit, I'm going to lose my parking. |
| 01:43:35.57 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 01:43:35.68 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:43:35.73 | Unknown | THE END OF |
| 01:44:16.74 | Mike Kelly | make me take my three units away and and I'm not legal and my setbacks are wrong. And so then everybody just hunkers down and they either do it illegally or don't do it at all. |
| 01:44:20.44 | Unknown | I'm not. |
| 01:44:26.60 | Mike Kelly | And that is not the case. This code is much more compliant. The variances, however, do cost money. And the minute you have a variance, you usually have another hearing or you have a planning commission hearing with money and there's more work that has to be done by the architect and if it isn't right the first time you have to come back in, that's another architect's fee and that's how Michael builds his hands. But I understand all that confusion and I think there's a lot of confusion in the community about how difficult it is to do business here. and how difficult it is to do the very simple things that we need to do to maintain the housing stock and keep it in good shape. So having said that, I'll punt to you. |
| 01:45:08.78 | Jonathan Leone | Yeah, no, this is some background. So having sat through two years of hearings around this ordinance, it's not perfect in any shape or form. And it was written by humans. And humans often use language that makes different sense to different people. the purpose of the nonconformity structures, not the uses. There's a whole other aspect to this, abuses. And this is when you get in a piece of legislation that you try to accomplish too many things with too many of the same sections of a document. was to allow non-legally conforming, so Nicole, yours is legally conforming, but to allow people who aren't legally conforming to bring their, we were having problems, people couldn't get mortgages, or they couldn't sell their house because they couldn't get the title, or there were problems of this and that, is to bring them into compliance. saying it's legally, it's now, you have a nonconformity permit, you are now legally nonconformist. So you're legally non-conforming, you're already set. Somebody who had a structure that had never come in for a permit All right. which in my case, there was nothing in file in my house in its whole life, um, Luckily, you go through this, okay, well, what are my entitlements and how do I become conforming so I don't have these issues? So the goal of that whole section was to bring people to goals, bring people in to give them something that said you're legal. You're okay. So don't worry about it. And, The opposite is true in the case of parking and things like the whole code is written to give you if you had multi-units and stuff like that to give you exemptions from parking to encourage that type of behavior. So you wouldn't lose that coming in here and the whole character of Sausalito and I say everyone who gets appointed to this planning commission and most people who get elected up here are that to not allow that conversion from multifamily to single family and to keep the character in the scale of what we deal with here and what we like about our community. I think there's a, I forget who said about the transition of staff turning over time and people's institutional memories change as new people come in. I think the application, there are three separate sections that people are mishing and mashing together here. One is this demolition concept. Two is this nonconforming, structure, concept, And three is what those start to trigger elsewhere in the code. And the demolition is a whole separate other sets of issues. And that's what Michael pointed out before. So you didn't drive by a house, and you saw the chimney and the wall on either side of the chimney, and that's all that was left. And somehow you could get away with claiming you didn't demolish the house. So what the decision, and again, it's a decision by the council at the time and the folks who helped draft this document, was that you've got to retain 51% is the idea of retaining a house. You've got to keep most of the house there to say you kept the house. Um, The idea of the interior walls is an interpretation of substantial remodel is a new one to me, that that application is somewhat new to me. And during my six years on the Planning Commission, it was never applied in that way in terms of a non-conforming structure. that's an issue for triggering fire sprinklers and all kinds of other stuff that goes on on the code compliance on the interior of the house. To me that's a whole separate issue. I don't the planning commission hardly ever deals with anybody's interior walls. So you never really get in that level of detail. Um, The issue why also these non-conforming structures were becoming a problem back when there was a boom |
| 01:48:41.73 | Unknown | Oh. |
| 01:48:42.81 | Jonathan Leone | of real estate, people were wanting to take those single story colleges that were nonconforming and maybe they didn't were legal or non-legal and go up. another story and blocked the view of their neighbor. and use those entitlements that were part of their legal non-conforming that I could be flush up against your wall, but then I can go to another story and use that to their advantage. and developers and architects and internet who are representing that side would say, well, it's already there. Let me go up on another story. Well, so the way this was written was to say, no, you can't do that. You've got to come in and meet the setbacks. Now, 30 by 100 is not a substandard lot in Sausledo, is it? So that's kind of your average lot. So a substandard lot are some of these lots on Pine Street, which are 15 by 60. You know, so if you had any setback, you can't even build a room. Um, And those structures, if you drive by there in the daytime between the Caledonia and Is it Litho or Bonita, the next one up? |
| 01:49:37.50 | Jonathan Leone | with the next one up. |
| 01:49:39.15 | Jonathan Leone | have the second story that is boxed in. So there's some light and air coming into the neighbor where they're moved out of the view of their neighbor's window so that when they try to exacerbate that nonconformity, it got massaged. So I think there's a little bit of sort of apples and oranges here about people worrying that this is going to take away, and maybe it's massaging and changing the language, and that can be done in another forum. So you're not worried this is going to take something away. It was actually meant to protect you, to allow you to keep what you already have. So if your house burnt down, and you came back from vacation, and there's no longer there. You can put exactly what was there before, because the way the Zornier-Orientus was written before, you couldn't. |
| 01:50:17.73 | Unknown | you |
| 01:50:17.90 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 01:50:18.02 | Unknown | All right. |
| 01:50:22.54 | Jonathan Leone | You had to come into compliance. Um, So this gave you a way to do that in a very short period of time in a very easy permitting process, actually, if you come in for a non-conformity permit to replace an existing structure as it is. Um, And we had a couple examples of this in the early 2000s where a couple homes burned down Santa Rosa, I think, over 90, on the way up to Spencer. I can't remember which one it was. where exactly that's what happened. Maybe there's been some change interpretation about the interior walls, but the interior wall part is part of the whole code issue, not zoning issue. And Um... So if that's become unclear as to how staff's interpreting that or become unclear from the people coming to the counter, that is troubling. but And there are tables and we're holding the processes that the city's going through is revamping this to make it more clear on a lot of different issues, not just this particular one. But it's a long and difficult process. We've been doing it with existing staff, so we don't have to |
| 01:51:27.41 | Jonathan Leone | process. |
| 01:51:31.46 | Jonathan Leone | hire consultants to do it. But I'm going a little longer in my three minutes, but I'm trying to give you some background to the whole thing. So, So, and yes, Michael did come to some of those hearings, but having sat through two years of these hearings, this was something that was, this table, |
| 01:51:44.92 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 01:51:44.96 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 01:51:44.98 | Jonathan Leone | . |
| 01:51:45.24 | Jonathan Leone | was heavily debated about what X should be in what box. And the whole idea was to not allow people to game the system, Michael. And that was to not allow you to, and, Mike, I don't want to comment on your house in particular, but the nonconformity permit was what let you build your house back after you tore it down. because you didn't anticipate tearing it down but You did. Okay. That will let you replicate your house. Um, Otherwise, you would have gone through a litany and you did it in a hearing. in one sitting versus having to come back through the whole permitting process, which can be three or four hearings, especially back in that day when I was driving you crazy on the Planning Commission. So, you know, I want to calm people's fears. This is not, this language, the way it's been practiced, and maybe there's some interpretation about the interior wall stuff that can be changed, but it has not, I think, discouraged people or taken away property rights. It's allowed you to keep, it's a mechanism to allow you to keep that property rights if something really bad happens to you, essentially. Or if you didn't have that legal right before, it's granting you that right. That's the whole purpose of it. So, I'm not exactly sure that |
| 01:52:37.71 | Unknown | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 01:53:00.61 | Jonathan Leone | ... I think there could be some word changes that go on at a staff level, but you don't want to have |
| 01:53:05.96 | Jonathan Leone | Absolutely. |
| 01:53:07.97 | Jonathan Leone | projects go to a two-committee, for every project that comes through. That's not uniform. That doesn't allow you to do the same thing as you and you. That allows people who can twist arms and get in the right people's spaces and drive people crazy to get their projects approved. Not you. Okay, so I don't think you should send individual projects to a subcommittee to debate their conformity and nonconformity. |
| 01:53:23.37 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:53:27.83 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 01:53:30.80 | Jonathan Leone | But |
| 01:53:30.83 | Unknown | But |
| 01:53:31.81 | Jonathan Leone | No, you, you, that you don't want to send it, but you wanted your appeal of your project if you hadn't gotten your approval to go to a subcommittee. |
| 01:53:40.99 | Linda Pfeifer | that no i'm reading i'm reading for the planning commission |
| 01:53:42.76 | Jonathan Leone | No, I'm reading from the Planning Commission records, okay? Not from what you guys said tonight. So what was said in those hearings. So what, as far as the legislative committee, that's I think still Herb and I, we'd be happy to massage the language and make it clear so that the language is clear of how this applies. But I wouldn't get freaked out about this, and I know that sounds You should have a healthy distrust about government, but we can certainly clear this up and make people feel more at ease that they're not losing something as a result of something that's been in place for almost 10 years now. |
| 01:54:18.89 | Carolyn Ford | Mr. Mayor? Yes. May I comment? |
| 01:54:19.79 | Herb Weiner | Yes. Council Member Ford. |
| 01:54:21.42 | Carolyn Ford | I appreciate the input from our two city council members who are former planning commissioners. And I'm happy to have the history. I have read staff's interpretation and their logic. Of course, I've read what the ordinance states. And I think that staff's interpretation is correct I agree with their interpretation it's clearly been past practice for the Planning Commission to interpret it this way and I feel that this is in place to protect our neighborhoods and the character of Sausalito. I think that the one thing that might be good for us to do, and staff has already mentioned, that there are some issues with the nonconforming ordinance is to have staff review and bring those issues back through the process or normal procedures for making changes. And at the same time, the one thing that struck me during this whole discussion is that it would be good to really focus on those interior. changes and the 51 percent because I think the main reason for this for this ordinance is to protect our neighborhoods and the character of our neighborhoods and what you see of our neighborhoods is usually from the outside. So I don't think there's a big discussion about what the interior looks like. I think we should take a serious look at that. But I would say we as a council should give direction to staff to continue with the interpretation. I agree with the resolution that's been brought up. And ask that staff include this topic and particularly with an emphasis on the interiors when they review the ordinance, nonconforming ordinance, and bring it back through the chain. |
| 01:56:52.37 | Mike Kelly | I would propose that we do some wordsmithing and some definition cleaning up to get more clarity so that the general public can understand what the definitions are. And then I would also suggest that we should consider eliminating the interior wall issue, just take it off the table. |
| 01:57:03.69 | Jonathan Leone | Bye. |
| 01:57:12.16 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 01:57:12.18 | Jonathan Leone | Well, I think you just have it apply where it should apply, and that's more of code issues rather than... |
| 01:57:12.28 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. You just have it. Bye. That probably than demolition and or? |
| 01:57:22.15 | Jonathan Leone | Well, no, it can apply to demolition, but it has to trigger things that it should trigger, not trigger how big my house is if I'm doing my wiring. |
| 01:57:28.84 | Mike Kelly | You should be really clear that doing your wiring and changing all of your drywall and even moving a wall or two along the way isn't going to trigger it, as long as it's the wall or two inside the house and doesn't change the envelope and structure and so on. And I think we can do that, and then that will largely give a lot of comfort to people. It's clear that we have to change this thing because we've got two things that are contrary to each other. Yeah. |
| 01:57:42.45 | Unknown | And I think |
| 01:57:51.94 | Unknown | Yeah. So, |
| 01:57:52.51 | Mike Kelly | And so that leaves a door open that people can drive a truck through. So that we need to fix, get rid of the interior wall issue for remodelings and other issues and have it clearly only apply to the structure changes. And then I think we're there. But I think that we need to redo the words. So that's what I would suggest we do. |
| 01:57:52.66 | Unknown | So, |
| 01:58:13.10 | Jonathan Leone | It does. |
| 01:58:17.23 | Jonathan Leone | Well, given that the planning director has some family health issues, but the, Mayor, do you think that staff I think given the number of people that are here, it's probably better to use this form than the legislative committee, but do you think this is something that planning |
| 01:58:27.90 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 01:58:33.94 | Jonathan Leone | director and his staff and you can work together to maybe This is a complicated one because these sections then weave out into a lot of other places in the zoning ordinance and that's unfortunate but that's the way legislation works. What is staff's desire if we were to change, go through a process of Clarifying this language. |
| 01:58:53.43 | Mary Wagner | I think there are two distinct processes that have been outlined for you. The first is the interpretation to allow staff to move forward to continue processing projects at all that involve these types of nonconformities while we go back and look at the nonconformity provisions and clean up all these things and get input from the stakeholders in the community and look at the broader issues and have you know public hearings at the council level at the planning commission level and if the council so desires at the legislative committee level as Michael pointed out that was a useful process with the |
| 01:59:05.77 | Unknown | Well, |
| 01:59:05.78 | Unknown | Bye. |
| 01:59:05.97 | Unknown | I think that's it. |
| 01:59:31.77 | Mary Wagner | with the construction time limit ordinance. It's been so long. And it has not been staff's intent to keep it from the legislative committee. |
| 01:59:34.42 | Unknown | that organization. |
| 01:59:35.03 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 01:59:42.77 | Mary Wagner | just wasn't our ability to place it there and I think that there's a little Miss miscommunication or misinterpretation about that if the council and I think that the appropriate way to do that is with the amendment to the ordinance itself so this isn't If the council supports the staff recommendation tonight, and denies the appeal. That's not the end of the discussion. What that does is allow staff to continue with the interpretation that they've been utilizing It's not really a seed change, which seems to be also an interpretation that people are making. and then to direct staff to go back and put it on the priority calendar or wherever we put it to direct staff resources to bring this back in a timely way. |
| 02:00:27.68 | Jonathan Leone | Can I ask, but can we, and this is where, I don't remember doing this very often, I don't know if you remember any other years before where the council interprets staff's interpretation, but you know, |
| 02:00:29.01 | Mary Wagner | I'm too. |
| 02:00:46.98 | Jonathan Leone | with the eye towards there are other things that the demolition language affects elsewhere. |
| 02:00:55.02 | Mike Kelly | I think that the discussion- |
| 02:00:55.96 | Jonathan Leone | Is there a way to, let me just finish this, is there a way to say the contemplated interpretation towards the exterior elements of the home are not to be triggered by the interior |
| 02:01:07.27 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 02:01:10.86 | Jonathan Leone | walled them |
| 02:01:12.55 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 02:01:12.56 | Jonathan Leone | you |
| 02:01:12.62 | Mary Wagner | That's a text amendment to the zoning ordinance because the definition of demolition clearly says 51% of the interior walls. |
| 02:01:12.63 | Jonathan Leone | That's it. Yes. |
| 02:01:20.92 | Jonathan Leone | Right. |
| 02:01:22.13 | Mary Wagner | And that's the wording that's used in the... |
| 02:01:22.17 | Jonathan Leone | And the depth |
| 02:01:28.41 | Mary Wagner | the language in the non-conformity structure section. |
| 02:01:30.81 | Jonathan Leone | Yeah, but I think if you go back to the purpose of the nonconformity language, it's to acknowledge the existence of legally established structures or uses that may have become nonconforming due to the adoption of this ordinance or previous ordinances. To allow the continued use of legally established nonconforming uses as long as they remain operational and the structure remains. |
| 02:01:42.97 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 02:01:49.49 | Jonathan Leone | to provide a permit process to allow for additions or alterations to it. I mean, it contemplates these reasons that Um, at least the interpretation can be changed in the short one while we're looking at the language that, as it gets out, it's a complicated web of referrals inside this document. People, we all take for granted now how easy it is to track things in documents, whereas 10 years ago it was not so easy. So I think that was where this was. |
| 02:02:11.66 | Mike Kelly | as we can. |
| 02:02:16.08 | Mike Kelly | Let me turn my hand. Can we get an interpretation tonight? that the council can make that places the practice in without the variance. In other words, limit the variance to only those cases where the variance really ought to apply, if you see my point. I mean, I'm not sure what the language is for that. |
| 02:02:43.42 | Mary Wagner | Yeah, I guess the other factor there is, you know, if somebody comes in and they've had substantial termite damage to their walls. |
| 02:02:50.64 | Unknown | Thank you. you |
| 02:02:51.57 | Mary Wagner | that's not necessarily a voluntary demolition or a voluntary act you know that's something that was beyond their control I haven't talked with the community development staff about |
| 02:02:57.90 | Jonathan Leone | You know, that's something. |
| 02:02:58.54 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:02:59.94 | Jonathan Leone | I think. But you can't. You don't see anything. Thank you. |
| 02:03:03.53 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 02:03:03.79 | Jonathan Leone | Can I interrupt you for a second? No, no, no. Because you wouldn't have to reinterpret it because the definition of substantial remodel is exterior in this document. |
| 02:03:05.29 | Mary Wagner | Yeah. |
| 02:03:05.53 | Linda Pfeifer | Even though. |
| 02:03:05.76 | Mary Wagner | No, no, no. Because you wouldn't have to read it. |
| 02:03:09.58 | Mike Kelly | Interpreted. Thank you. the definition of schedule |
| 02:03:15.45 | Mike Kelly | If the ZA were to have the ability to make the finding himself and only would make the finding for a variance in extreme cases, that's what I'm getting at. So in other words, business as usual for those nonconforming structures whose remodeling and replication and so on, fit under the intent of the zoning code. not that everyone that comes in now has to be a variance. I mean, that's, I think, part of the fear, that the variance is just going to be used as a as a derrigeur. Well, and just for |
| 02:03:49.55 | Mary Wagner | Well and just for point of confirmation to the planning commission just approved structure that fell directly within this with how many variances Lily? |
| 02:03:55.06 | Mike Kelly | that fell down. with. |
| 02:03:56.73 | Nathaniel Berkowitz | Thank you. |
| 02:03:59.21 | Mary Wagner | four I think, four, Michael knows, I don't know how many it had, So the Planning Commission has not... |
| 02:04:04.47 | Mike Kelly | It happens all the time. It's not stopped. |
| 02:04:05.33 | Mary Wagner | stopped granting variances if they fit the |
| 02:04:06.68 | Mike Kelly | experiences. That's right. But I'm saying even before you get to the Planning Commission level, because if you can pick it to the Planning Commission, if it needs a variance, you've got to go. |
| 02:04:09.28 | Mary Wagner | projects. Yeah, I think. Here's the concern. If you want to tinker with the language |
| 02:04:17.95 | Mike Kelly | Shalom. |
| 02:04:18.43 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. Other than what is being suggested tonight, I think we're doing something more than what has been presented and we would need to go back and look at that. |
| 02:04:19.74 | Mike Kelly | Yeah. |
| 02:04:19.79 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 02:04:20.20 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 02:04:20.30 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:04:20.33 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 02:04:20.45 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:04:26.78 | Jonathan Leone | Yeah, so I think we should go through the normal public process about language changes, but on page 18 of the definitions, City of 1088, |
| 02:04:29.82 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 02:04:37.83 | Jonathan Leone | you remodel substantial as used in chapter 62, which is the nonconforming Language. of this title, a substantial remodel is any exterior remodel that does not classify as So it's already said, For the non-conforming substantial remodel, it's exterior based. It's not your knob and tube. It's not anything to do with interior walls. So what is a substantial remodel is referred to later in the demolition language in another section. But as used in 62 of this title, not in the rest of the zoning ordinance, but in 62, It's an exterior remodel, and that, I think we can interpret that, it reminds them of that, and that's how it should be interpreted from now until we do these language changes. you And that's not amending the zoning ordinance. That's how it's being interpreted rather than amending it. So that way you could get away, because I don't like to amend it piecemeal either. We've had a lot of applications for that over the years, and it tends to create a, you can't foresee the consequences of one person's desire. |
| 02:05:37.23 | Linda Pfeifer | We've had a lot of that. |
| 02:05:38.03 | Mike Kelly | Yeah. |
| 02:05:38.24 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. you |
| 02:05:39.09 | Mike Kelly | that it Isn't the fear that |
| 02:05:45.89 | Mike Kelly | This is the fear that when you take out five, number five, even though it's in conflict. Take it away. And then you automatically default to 6a and 6b. and 6A and 6B trigger the variance. And so everybody's afraid that, oops, that goes away, and suddenly everything's going to be a variance, and now everything's going to go to the Planning Commission, and then there's money. I might not get it and so on. So what we need to ensure is that the interpretation, that there's enough room in this that the staff can make an interpretation which they can now do under 5A. Right? or five. I think you could. Or whatever. |
| 02:06:24.38 | Mary Wagner | Yeah, what I hear Council Member Leon saying is if somebody comes in and only takes out interior walls, that might trigger this one section for demolishing, but that is not a remodel. It's a replication because you're not touching the exterior walls. |
| 02:06:32.72 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:06:32.75 | Adam Krivace | Thank you. |
| 02:06:32.80 | Linda Pfeifer | . |
| 02:06:32.84 | Adam Krivace | THE FAMILY. |
| 02:06:33.14 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 02:06:33.17 | Adam Krivace | Thank you. |
| 02:06:33.46 | Linda Pfeifer | but that it's not. |
| 02:06:38.62 | Mike Kelly | I'm understanding. I struggle hard to make that work in my head. This is exactly what I'm saying. |
| 02:06:40.94 | Mary Wagner | I'm understanding. This is exactly the issue, and this is why it's been so difficult. |
| 02:06:45.54 | Carolyn Ford | Bye. |
| 02:06:49.27 | Carolyn Ford | Mr. Mayor, if I might, you know, I think that we should not do anything in haste, that we have staff and the planning commission who's already interpreted this. I think we should go with the interpretation and make sure that the nonconforming ordinance gets on our high priority list, and that staff do this and deal with it in the normal way that they deal with any change. It seems to me that the planning commission considered and granted variances when it's needed. If that's the case, then you wouldn't have to be going back and forth six different times to get it, hopefully, and the cost would stay down. But in the interim period, I think it would be a mistake for the council to reword it tonight. and be hasty. about this. We need to legally make sure we're in compliance with the ordinance and we need to move forward slowly. |
| 02:07:59.45 | Jonathan Leone | Can I ask Mary a question? So is it possible then, and I, Carolyn, I agree with most of what she's saying, so is for a staff to come back in two different steps? One is they could come back with a revised interpretation. and say here's our light of the testimony, and yada, yada, yada. Here's our revised interpretation. If the fear is I can't get my permits for knob and tube, remodel my kitchen because I'm going to have to justify that my EF sticks over the property line, which a fair amount of time, that does happen. that staff could come back with a revised interpretation of this particular aspect of it. Forget this appeal, just outside of this. We won't forget your appeal, though. And then we could start this other more in-depth process of reviewing the language of both all of these sections and how they intertwine and peel them apart. And couldn't that be done in a separate process and not involve a text amendment? |
| 02:09:01.20 | Mary Wagner | So I think I'm hearing essentially three processes. The issue you have in front of you tonight. Right. Another issue, which is an interpretation of how the zoning ordinance and these provisions apply to solely projects that are dealing with the interior electrical wiring and are putting the walls back in the same way. |
| 02:09:17.50 | Jonathan Leone | No, I mean I'm saying for the nonconformity permits |
| 02:09:19.75 | Mary Wagner | Right, right. Yeah, I think I'm tracking you. So there's three steps, basically. There's that. |
| 02:09:23.68 | Jonathan Leone | Right. |
| 02:09:24.03 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:09:25.25 | Mary Wagner | issue that's in front of you tonight, then there's the issue of the interior wall |
| 02:09:28.71 | Unknown | Mm-hmm. |
| 02:09:28.72 | Mary Wagner | you work. And then there's the third issue, which is the larger amendment to the 1062. Yes. |
| 02:09:32.60 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:09:32.64 | Jonathan Leone | Right. |
| 02:09:35.88 | Jonathan Leone | I'm not sure. Okay. |
| 02:09:42.61 | Jonathan Leone | Does that make sense to folks? I think it makes sense. So what do we do tonight? So the way you add to it. |
| 02:09:44.08 | Mike Kelly | Thank you, Luke. |
| 02:09:45.87 | Herb Weiner | Can I take a minute and let Michael come back and fish? I know when I'm supposed to, but I don't think it's a... |
| 02:09:48.13 | Michael Rex | Thank you. |
| 02:09:51.81 | Michael Rex | The appeal before you tonight is a resolution that was passed by your planning commission, and it was very simple. It said throw off A5. and A68 will control And they directed staff to come back to a zoning amendment to implement that as a permanent change accordingly. |
| 02:10:11.15 | Unknown | Yep. |
| 02:10:11.69 | Michael Rex | They didn't have a resolution to re-woord smith or work the bugs out or receive |
| 02:10:12.04 | Unknown | Thank you. man. |
| 02:10:19.92 | Michael Rex | input from the public. It was the Thoreau of 5A. It's a resolution before you. That's what's appealed. Because as you can see, this is a whole lot more complicated than that. It needs a lot more study. And, Um, Putting it into committee would give an opportunity stakeholders to work with staff and members of the commission if they want to be on the committee. to try to come up with some broad solution. But that's why it's appeal. We don't have that opportunity right now. 5A's out the window, 6A controls, these all go to variances. If you want to alter more than 51% of your interior walls or floors or ceilings, it's going to go into a variance. |
| 02:10:52.88 | Unknown | 5A. |
| 02:11:04.15 | Michael Rex | So I just want to thank you |
| 02:11:08.00 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:11:08.08 | Unknown | . |
| 02:11:08.14 | Mike Kelly | But Mr. Mayor, if I could... |
| 02:11:08.45 | Michael Rex | But, yeah, there's... |
| 02:11:09.79 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 02:11:09.86 | Michael Rex | Mr. Mayor, real quickly. Thank you, Michael. |
| 02:11:09.89 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:11:10.02 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 02:11:10.14 | Mike Kelly | Yeah. |
| 02:11:10.33 | Mary Wagner | Yeah. |
| 02:11:10.60 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:11:10.63 | Mary Wagner | Mr. Mayor, real quickly. Thank you, Michael. Mr. Mayor. |
| 02:11:12.89 | Michael Rex | Thank you. Yes. |
| 02:11:13.97 | Mary Wagner | If that's the direction Council wants us to go, that's obviously what we'll do. The problem we end up with is what do we do in the meantime? Yeah. |
| 02:11:14.48 | Michael Rex | If we're not going to be able to do that, |
| 02:11:14.77 | Herb Weiner | That's what I'm saying. |
| 02:11:14.97 | Linda Pfeifer | Yes. |
| 02:11:15.19 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 02:11:15.29 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 02:11:15.56 | Susan Shea | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 02:11:16.35 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 02:11:16.40 | Susan Shea | It's a good thing. |
| 02:11:22.11 | Michael Rex | In the meantime. |
| 02:11:22.72 | Susan Shea | Thank you. |
| 02:11:25.57 | Michael Rex | There's no problem with the current interpretation standing. You've been applying it that way for a number of years. Let it stand. It's making permanent changes to our code that is really the issue. |
| 02:11:37.51 | Mary Wagner | And staff supports that going to the legislative committee if that's the council's direction. I misunderstood Mr. Rex. I thought he was saying the interpretation issues should go to a committee discussion. And if that happens without any direction, staff's in limbo on how to process these applications. |
| 02:11:39.59 | Michael Rex | Yeah. |
| 02:11:53.12 | Unknown | that |
| 02:11:54.46 | Carolyn Ford | Yeah, no, I think that the report is clear, staff's report is clear, is that they're looking for an interpretation and their interpretation as to enforce during this time period when we're looking at changing the ordinance. And so what we need to do tonight, in my mind, is give them that. |
| 02:11:55.64 | Mary Wagner | to |
| 02:12:16.87 | Carolyn Ford | and then have staff go back and look at the non-conforming ordinance, which they're also requesting, the time to do that and bring it forward. |
| 02:12:30.03 | Mike Kelly | resolution says. |
| 02:12:31.56 | Jonathan Leone | Can I make a motion and maybe I'll clarify this? Because there's a bunch of different alternatives here. So I'll make a motion to... |
| 02:12:31.58 | Carolyn Ford | and I think it's... |
| 02:12:31.82 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:12:35.61 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 02:12:37.35 | Mike Kelly | Absolutely. |
| 02:12:37.42 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:12:37.47 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:12:37.49 | Carolyn Ford | I'm here. |
| 02:12:42.15 | Jonathan Leone | I'll try and take pieces of what the staff outlined and what we've been talking about for some time now. So I would make the motion to deny the appeal and affirm the planning commission. But I would deny the appeal. I'm not going to affirm the planning commission's determination. I'm going to just deny the appeal. Direct staff return with a revised interpretation of the nonconformity permit as concerns interior modifications. in the short run. and in the long run to go through, to have this go through whatever process, staff and I would say a combination of committee and then coming back to planning. |
| 02:13:34.05 | Mike Kelly | Back to the planning council. Just make it the legislative committee. |
| 02:13:36.28 | Jonathan Leone | Okay, so maybe the Legislative Committee to come there, then it would go to the Planning Commission and come back to Council of Language that would seek to... |
| 02:13:36.64 | Unknown | THE FAMILY. |
| 02:13:37.23 | Mike Kelly | Yeah. |
| 02:13:42.03 | Adam Politzer | Let's go. |
| 02:13:46.83 | Jonathan Leone | clarify the difference between nonconformity, nonconforming permits, nonconforming structural permits, demolition permits, and the implications of both those two, and clarify some of the issues that have come to light in this discussion this evening. Is that succinct enough to make sense? |
| 02:14:10.93 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 02:14:11.04 | Herb Weiner | Oh, yeah. |
| 02:14:11.08 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 02:14:11.36 | Herb Weiner | Oh. Thank you. |
| 02:14:11.90 | Mary Wagner | I don't want you to repeat that twice. |
| 02:14:13.03 | Herb Weiner | That's right. Yes. |
| 02:14:13.54 | Mary Wagner | Yes, just to make sure you want me to ask questions or wait till you have a second. |
| 02:14:13.84 | Jonathan Leone | Just, just. |
| 02:14:19.45 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 02:14:19.51 | Unknown | for people. |
| 02:14:20.17 | Mary Wagner | Okay. May I ask a question? So I understand this is the three-part prong that we were talking about. So taking action on the appeal tonight. |
| 02:14:20.27 | Unknown | Okay. May I ask questions? |
| 02:14:30.72 | Mary Wagner | a staff interpretation on the application of the nonconformity permit to an interior demolition only, not exterior. So, I think that's a good question. One question is whether you want that to come back to the Council or whether it should be Okay? I'm hearing come back to the council with that. And then the third is amend the zoning ordinance using the legislative committee as a committee to work with, you know, stakeholders in the community to work that out. One question there is whether you would like the planning commission to have somebody on that as well. Yes. One or two members of the planning commission could participate in that. I think they would be public. Yes. |
| 02:14:57.64 | Unknown | clarify. |
| 02:15:03.71 | Jonathan Leone | Yes. |
| 02:15:04.22 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:15:04.25 | Jonathan Leone | Yeah. I think they would be public hearings and you could have a planning commissioner. |
| 02:15:11.17 | Mary Wagner | Sure, if the council wanted a planning commissioner, then it's just more clear that there's one commissioner who's or two who were doing that. One. |
| 02:15:14.07 | Jonathan Leone | clear that there's |
| 02:15:18.56 | Mary Wagner | Okay. |
| 02:15:18.93 | Jonathan Leone | And I think Michael would be helpful if he could, you know, Submit. your normal volume of commentary. |
| 02:15:25.60 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 02:15:25.85 | Mary Wagner | I'm not. |
| 02:15:26.96 | Linda Pfeifer | . |
| 02:15:27.27 | Jonathan Leone | That always helps guide us along a little bit in terms of having verbiage, not just |
| 02:15:27.49 | Unknown | Um... |
| 02:15:30.31 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. I was going to say hello. Thank you. |
| 02:15:33.73 | Jonathan Leone | Yeah. They're slipping. |
| 02:15:33.75 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah. That's good. You're slipping. He was off the clock. |
| 02:15:38.03 | Jonathan Leone | But he was off the clock. He was off the clock. I just think you like him. |
| 02:15:38.98 | Herb Weiner | So... |
| 02:15:39.06 | Linda Pfeifer | Good luck. |
| 02:15:40.18 | Herb Weiner | I just don't know. |
| 02:15:41.07 | Linda Pfeifer | Because you like them. |
| 02:15:41.97 | Herb Weiner | So we have a motion, we have a second. Second. All in favor? Aye. |
| 02:15:43.27 | Linda Pfeifer | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 02:15:45.95 | Linda Pfeifer | There. |
| 02:15:46.02 | Linda Pfeifer | Second. |
| 02:15:49.02 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 02:15:49.34 | Linda Pfeifer | Bye. |
| 02:15:49.96 | Herb Weiner | Uh, |
| 02:15:50.02 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 02:15:50.03 | Jonathan Leone | And I would ask those of you who are here who want to keep in the loop on this kind of thing, leave your, fill out one of these cards and so we have your email address so if any future hearings that are at the committee level or back at the council, we can contact you. I think they're up here, these brown little cards, if you want to fill those out. |
| 02:15:50.39 | Linda Pfeifer | Bye. |
| 02:15:50.42 | Herb Weiner | Bye. |
| 02:16:09.37 | Mary Wagner | For clarification, Mr. Mayor, that passed 5-0, correct? Yes. |
| 02:16:12.20 | Jonathan Leone | Yes. Sorry. |
| 02:16:13.42 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. Okay. |
| 02:16:15.18 | Linda Pfeifer | And just for the record, I would say that I own a legal non-conforming Home, and so one of the things I... We'll be up tomorrow morning. |
| 02:16:25.08 | Alice Merrill | Thank you. |
| 02:16:25.11 | Unknown | We'll be up tomorrow morning. |
| 02:16:26.50 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. Ask Mary was legal counsel was clarification on whether or not I could weigh in, and her thought was yes. But I wanted to listen to everyone before you know. |
| 02:16:36.84 | Unknown | Okay. |
| 02:16:37.45 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 02:16:42.41 | Jonathan Leone | before you. |
| 02:16:43.10 | Herb Weiner | I want to. |
| 02:16:43.12 | Jonathan Leone | I'm just... |
| 02:16:43.98 | Unknown | I'll see you next time. |
| 02:16:44.01 | Jonathan Leone | Oh. |
| 02:16:44.08 | Unknown | I don't know. |
| 02:16:44.32 | Linda Pfeifer | Bye. |
| 02:16:44.39 | Jonathan Leone | Bye. |
| 02:16:44.42 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 02:16:44.44 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 02:16:44.54 | Unknown | . |
| 02:16:44.94 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. But can I just add one thing? So I just want to let people know the goal of this, and I'm sure coming back through this process, is not to take away any property rights that you already have, nor to make the process more difficult for you. So that's, I think, the overarching goal of clarifying this so it's clear what you can and can't do and what your property rights are not going to be affected by this particular aspect of it. So. |
| 02:17:10.54 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. Okay. All right. Thank you. And thank you all for coming tonight. Thank you, Michael. |
| 02:17:18.56 | Jonathan Leone | But please leave your email so the staff can let you know, so you can say if you want to participate. |
| 02:17:18.81 | Herb Weiner | Please leave your... comment. |
| 02:17:25.22 | Herb Weiner | Bye. |
| 02:17:26.83 | Jonathan Leone | So |
| 02:17:27.35 | Herb Weiner | Yeah, I'm one of our... We're gonna take a break, but not right now. |
| 02:17:33.14 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 02:17:33.22 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 02:17:33.24 | Jonathan Leone | Yeah. |
| 02:17:33.51 | Linda Pfeifer | Heh. |
| 02:17:36.28 | Herb Weiner | Go ahead. Just step on. |
| 02:17:37.02 | Linda Pfeifer | Take an individual break. |
| 02:17:39.16 | Herb Weiner | I'd like to at this time hear the update on the Library Space Needs Assessment Report. Mary Richardson. I don't want to do that. |
| 02:17:46.47 | Unknown | Stay around tomorrow. |
| 02:17:47.62 | Carolyn Ford | Far behind our men. |
| 02:17:48.85 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:17:49.64 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 02:17:49.76 | Unknown | I don't know. |
| 02:17:50.17 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. Thank you. you |
| 02:17:58.92 | Linda Pfeifer | Screw the items, sir. Okay. |
| 02:18:06.58 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. We're 45 minutes behind it. Yeah, can't be helped. |
| 02:18:12.66 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 02:18:13.82 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:18:13.96 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 02:18:13.98 | Unknown | you |
| 02:18:14.28 | Linda Pfeifer | No, it was right. Thank you. |
| 02:18:16.67 | Carolyn Ford | Yeah. |
| 02:18:16.73 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 02:18:39.19 | Herb Weiner | of non-conforming footprint. Thank you. |
| 02:18:42.76 | Unknown | Is this a little more? |
| 02:18:43.96 | Herb Weiner | Yeah. |
| 02:18:45.40 | Unknown | Thank you. it |
| 02:18:50.14 | Herb Weiner | Oh, thanks. |
| 02:18:53.75 | Unknown | Yeah. Thank you. that the library's face need of investment. Some of you remember when the library was in the old school hall |
| 02:19:07.00 | Unknown | moved into the old school auditorium of the present-day city hall. When I started working for the Sausalito Public Library over three decades ago, It was a newly remodeled AIA award-winning library. and I was the dewy-eyed librarian in her twenties. That pun was for you, Herb. Thank you. |
| 02:19:26.76 | Mike Kelly | . Dewey I, that's very good. I said double uncommodely. |
| 02:19:28.70 | Unknown | Dewey-eyed. You wanna get it? |
| 02:19:33.98 | Unknown | The time has now arrived for both of us to retire, however, and make way for the next generation. In 2007, the Library Strategic Plan identified the need for an improved physical facility as one of its major service priorities. In July 2010, the Library Foundation engaged the library facility planning firm of Page and Morris to assess the library's space needs and to identify strategies to more effectively use the current space. Page and Morris reviewed community demographics, library usage patterns, community input received both during the strategic planning process as well as focus groups held in September. interviewed library staff, and compared service levels with best planning practices among libraries. The resulting space needs assessment report before you recommends both short and long-term improvements. For those of you who don't have a copy of this report, you can find it on the library's webpage. The short-term improvements are to the existing library space. The long-term improvements require additional space. Next slide. |
| 02:20:57.43 | Unknown | The short-term improvements are a makeover project with a new floor plan that reflects current library usage. If you go to just past page 23 on your Needs assessment, there's a foldout of this drawing that's on the wall. |
| 02:21:16.09 | Unknown | To minimize costs, the scope is limited to the main public space and open area in front of the mezzanine. And you can see that on the wall. The larger picture on the left is the main floor and the little kind of piece that's coming out to the side is the mezzanine. And the gray areas are the areas that aren't included. |
| 02:21:38.36 | Unknown | To minimize costs, offices and stacks are not included. The focus is on furniture and equipment rather than changes to the building structure. Plan includes adding and relocating data lines and electrical outlets, purchasing new furniture and shelving, and necessary carpeting and painting. The results would benefit every library patron. More space for children, better technology hookups for computer users, clearly defined spaces that separate quiet activities from noisy ones, improved traffic flow, and more self-service. The estimated cost of the makeover project is $234,000. Using surplus carpet tiles and reusing some existing furniture would lower the estimate to between $170,000 and $200,000. The Sausalito Library Foundation is willing to fund the cost of the furniture which is approximately half the estimated cost. if the city is willing to fund the other elements of the project. demo electrical data lines, framing, painting, carpeting, and shelving. an expenditure of $100,000 from the Library Capital Improvement Fund. Council will be considering this as part of the upcoming budget process. The city manager, public works director, and I met to discuss this project, and we all feel that it is worthwhile considering the benefit it would bring to a large portion of the community. If given the go-ahead, August 2012 is the tentative target date for implementing the |
| 02:23:22.91 | Unknown | As for long-term improvements, The needs assessment report recommends doubling the size of the library. in order to meet the current needs of the community. Recommendations include adding shelving, seating, public computers, flexible multipurpose space for programs, study rooms, more expensive self-service, and expanded staff work areas. |
| 02:23:49.15 | Unknown | This drawing, I gave you copies. There's one on the wall. There's one up there, and you guys have copies shows the long-term improvements in comparison with the short-term improvements. This may be tricky to visualize, but since the future location is unknown, We've used blocks representing the space required for the various library functions as noted in the report. It is drawn to the same scale as the makeover plan that you see on the left. The blocks with no shading inside indicate The red shading represents the area in the makeover floor plan. So in other words, the existing library space. The blocks with no shading inside indicate improvements for which additional space will be required. So you can see we need about twice as much space. I'd like to thank a local architect for helping us make these drawings, and he did a few others pro bono. He probably wants to remain anonymous, but his initials are Bob Pollitzer. |
| 02:25:00.16 | Unknown | Oh, oh, oh, oh. |
| 02:25:00.65 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 02:25:02.45 | Unknown | Keep it in November. |
| 02:25:05.62 | Unknown | Planning for a new or expanded library facility is a long-term undertaking. No space has been identified into which the library can expand or on which to build a new library. The needs assessment takes into account projected population growth over a 20-year Planning Horizon. However, it is important to note that even though the spaces and service levels recommended are tied to a 20-30 population, Community size is expected to remain stable, and the space deficits that need to be addressed already exist. |
| 02:25:43.71 | Unknown | We don't know what form our library of the future will take. But we do know the best is yet to come. And if we have stairs like that, there'll be an elevator. Thank you. |
| 02:25:53.47 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:25:58.29 | Mike Kelly | Mayor, you said the plan would be implemented August of 2012. Did you mean finished or started? Started. Started. And then how long to finish it? I can't take it by the moment. Okay, so this is basically more of an assemblage to get it done. Yeah. What is the initial BT behind the mean? The initial what? On the plan, there's these things that say BT. |
| 02:26:17.36 | Unknown | The initial one. |
| 02:26:21.71 | Mike Kelly | Oh, this is a BT. |
| 02:26:22.69 | Unknown | I don't know. |
| 02:26:23.03 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. Yeah, it's behind the desk. Everything else I could figure out, I couldn't figure out BT. It just looks like little workstations or something. |
| 02:26:35.79 | Unknown | It just looks like a little bit. |
| 02:26:38.07 | Mike Kelly | Book truck? Book truck? Is that what it is? Book truck. Okay, gotcha. That makes sense. Since it's behind the desk where you get books. Okay. |
| 02:26:46.77 | Unknown | Yes. |
| 02:26:47.47 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:26:47.84 | Unknown | Okay. Thank you. Do you have any questions on the layout? I have a question. Sure. |
| 02:26:50.43 | Mike Kelly | I have a question. Sure. Approximately how many square feet is the entire new library, including the red |
| 02:26:56.80 | Unknown | It was about 12,000. The proposed space, the existing space is around 6,000. The proposed space would be around 12,000. |
| 02:27:00.97 | Mike Kelly | The proposed basis Great. So we're looking for 12,000 feet of footwork. |
| 02:27:06.58 | Unknown | Thank you. Does anybody know of a building with about 12,000 square feet? |
| 02:27:08.81 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:27:08.83 | Mary Wagner | THE FAMILY. |
| 02:27:09.07 | Unknown | See you. |
| 02:27:09.32 | Mary Wagner | I'm not sure. |
| 02:27:09.39 | Unknown | you Thank you. |
| 02:27:10.75 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:27:10.77 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:27:11.06 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. This one has it, but then where would everyone else go? |
| 02:27:14.03 | Unknown | Let's see. |
| 02:27:19.27 | Unknown | I don't know. You can all hang out the line. |
| 02:27:21.03 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 02:27:21.26 | Mike Kelly | Did he say just do away with the council? Is that what he said? |
| 02:27:21.43 | Unknown | You said you were. |
| 02:27:24.32 | Jonathan Leone | up. Thank you. |
| 02:27:24.93 | Mike Kelly | you |
| 02:27:24.98 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 02:27:25.03 | Mike Kelly | We'll have plenty of meeting rooms. Yes, nightly whiplash. |
| 02:27:29.25 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 02:27:31.96 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:27:32.37 | Jonathan Leone | Barry, is there any of this work that would be duplicative if the longer term |
| 02:27:32.42 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:27:32.47 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 02:27:40.18 | Jonathan Leone | Let's just say if somehow that space was miraculously second floor was created or whatever, that if the library stayed in its present location and added to in some fashion, that it would be sort of duplicative expense by doing this shorter term project in your mind. |
| 02:27:52.74 | Mary Wagner | Yeah. |
| 02:28:01.07 | Unknown | No, I don't think so. I think by the time we would get another space ready, I think we really do need these short-term improvements. I think it would make a huge difference. The biggest one of which I think is just having more space for children. |
| 02:28:13.76 | Mike Kelly | And I don't think we really want |
| 02:28:15.06 | Unknown | And I don't think we really want to wait. |
| 02:28:18.30 | Mike Kelly | Yeah, it's much more efficient. |
| 02:28:18.81 | Unknown | And what we're doing in order to do that is we're reducing the number of reference, reducing the reference collection size, which we don't need as much anymore because of the Internet. and then giving it to children. And if we waited I don't think that's duplicative. I think we really need it. |
| 02:28:35.08 | Mike Kelly | Right. That means you don't want my encyclopedias. I was going to tell you. No. |
| 02:28:38.27 | Unknown | No. |
| 02:28:40.78 | Linda Pfeifer | Mary, I know that one of your considerations was to address the children's space and also with respect to the noise mitigation of the children and the adults. And I was wondering, are you happy with this proposal? Well, it's not going to be ideal. |
| 02:28:40.97 | Unknown | . |
| 02:28:41.34 | Mike Kelly | Mary. |
| 02:28:42.03 | Unknown | . |
| 02:28:52.73 | Unknown | you |
| 02:28:52.80 | Unknown | Mm-hmm. |
| 02:28:58.06 | Unknown | Well, it's not going to be ideal because we still are in the same one room. But what we're hoping is the space where the children The children's section is now. Let's see if I can get this on. Well, you know where it is right now. used to be the stage of the auditorium. the acoustically It projects wonderfully |
| 02:29:17.36 | Unknown | Jex. |
| 02:29:18.80 | Unknown | throughout the library from the children's section |
| 02:29:19.78 | Unknown | from the |
| 02:29:21.85 | Unknown | We don't know if it's going to project quite as well from where we're moving it to, which is where you see the turquoise. Thank you. |
| 02:29:27.58 | Unknown | Right. |
| 02:29:28.76 | Unknown | which is to the left, to the right as you walk in the door. And we're also going to be putting the youngest children's area nearest the elevator. So it'll be kind of tucked back in there. And the two red lines across the middle are the reference collection. So we're hoping that'll buffer the sound a little bit. |
| 02:29:29.84 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:29:46.76 | Jonathan Leone | That should help. With the way to enforce who's using those areas be by the size of the furniture, is that how it's going to dissuade folks from, because people you're using. |
| 02:29:58.74 | Unknown | That's kind of how it works right now, and I'm sure it will be there. |
| 02:30:03.01 | Jonathan Leone | I'm not saying that, you know. |
| 02:30:04.01 | Unknown | They'll be parent-sized chairs, but mostly kid-sized chairs. But that, you know, you still see adults sitting on the little stools. I think you've been found in that section. Yes, I have. |
| 02:30:14.32 | Linda Pfeifer | I think you would. |
| 02:30:15.03 | Jonathan Leone | Right. |
| 02:30:15.53 | Linda Pfeifer | you've been Yes. |
| 02:30:16.46 | Jonathan Leone | It is. |
| 02:30:17.96 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:30:18.94 | Jonathan Leone | I have. |
| 02:30:20.06 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:30:20.07 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. And so in the back where the current children's section is, those are going to be computer stations? Yes. |
| 02:30:28.19 | Unknown | Yeah, where the children's section is now is kind of where we're gonna segregate all the computers so that noise will be in that area. The area nearest the windows is going to be very similar to what it is now, but there'll be a lot more plug-ins for the computers, which will be nice for all the people on the laptops that come in. |
| 02:30:47.80 | Herb Weiner | Okay. Thank you, Mary. Is there any comment from the public about this at this time? you OK, let's bring it back up. I think this is just direction. |
| 02:31:00.52 | Jonathan Leone | This is a great plan. |
| 02:31:03.95 | Herb Weiner | I think you've done it. |
| 02:31:05.67 | Jonathan Leone | Can I just ask a question? Would you... if your target date is, what did you say, August of next year? |
| 02:31:16.11 | Unknown | I mean, |
| 02:31:16.69 | Jonathan Leone | What about August? The target date would be August of next year. |
| 02:31:17.16 | Unknown | Well... If all, I mean, it all, so much hinges, because I'm retiring in July, a lot of it hinges on when the next librarian takes over and starts, you know, gets up to speed. I would suggest that it'd be done either in the month of August or the month of December. Because it's kind of slow months. |
| 02:31:33.80 | Jonathan Leone | Right. And would, so would you need a, would there need to be a budget appropriation for expenditures in this fiscal year? Yes. Well. Or would it be? Next year. I don't think it would matter. I think you appropriated it. |
| 02:31:43.11 | Unknown | Yes. Yeah. |
| 02:31:43.99 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 02:31:44.03 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:31:44.13 | Jonathan Leone | Bye. to be. Next year. I don't think we're there. I think you've separated. |
| 02:31:49.04 | Sherri Lynn Campbell | still be carried over right. |
| 02:31:49.26 | Jonathan Leone | the Thank you. Thank you. |
| 02:31:51.47 | Jonathan Leone | Yeah, is there any long lead time items like for new furniture that you have to order three months or six months in advance that is part of the- |
| 02:31:58.24 | Unknown | or that's going to be the foundation's responsibility, but they'll keep that in mind. |
| 02:32:02.39 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. That's right. So we just have the room. You have the hook for the furniture. You'll be doing all the rest of the project. |
| 02:32:03.50 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 02:32:03.64 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:32:03.65 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 02:32:03.67 | Unknown | Yeah. You're off the hook for the furniture. You'll be doing all the rest of the project. |
| 02:32:08.66 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 02:32:09.14 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:32:09.91 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah. |
| 02:32:10.13 | Mike Kelly | you |
| 02:32:10.30 | Linda Pfeifer | you |
| 02:32:10.35 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:32:10.39 | Linda Pfeifer | Okay. |
| 02:32:10.69 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:32:10.77 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 02:32:12.48 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:32:12.49 | Herb Weiner | All right. Thank you. All right. Thank you, Mary. Terrific. Thank you. |
| 02:32:14.59 | Mike Kelly | Amen. |
| 02:32:14.67 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 02:32:14.81 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. Great idea. Let's get it cut. |
| 02:32:18.94 | Herb Weiner | Okay. Sure you will stay here. |
| 02:32:22.06 | Unknown | I'll be in town. Which is the honorary. |
| 02:32:23.04 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 02:32:23.08 | Jonathan Leone | Which is... |
| 02:32:23.36 | Jonathan Leone | Where's the honorary section of the library for you? |
| 02:32:28.07 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:32:28.14 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:32:28.17 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 02:32:28.66 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 02:32:29.03 | Unknown | Yes. Thank you. |
| 02:32:33.01 | Herb Weiner | Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Mary. Thank you. At this time here, we're going to take up to a five-minute break. |
| 02:32:34.40 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 02:32:34.42 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:32:34.52 | Mike Kelly | Bye. |
| 02:32:34.65 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:32:34.74 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:32:34.75 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:32:35.04 | Mike Kelly | Thank you, Mary. |
| 02:32:35.71 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:32:35.83 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:32:35.97 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:32:36.08 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:32:36.41 | Unknown | Thank you. . |
| 02:32:36.78 | Mike Kelly | Bye. |
| 02:32:36.98 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:32:37.11 | Mike Kelly | Thank you very much. |
| 02:32:37.57 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:32:37.67 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:32:37.72 | Unknown | Yes. |
| 02:32:38.01 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 02:32:43.36 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:32:46.24 | Herb Weiner | Everybody please take their seats. And next item on the agenda is introduction of the Gate 5 Road Watershed Conceptual Drainage Study Report, prepared by West Yost Associates. Todd Teachout. |
| 02:33:14.63 | Todd Tichetz | Mr. Mayor and fellow council members, I'm Todd Tichetz, city engineer. I'm here to walk you through a project that was called a conceptual drainage study for the Gate 5 Road area. This was authorized about a year and a half ago, but we're finally getting it done and presented to you for some future actions. Let's see. Okay, what's going on? Gate 5 Road experiences flooding fairly regularly on a daily basis in the wintertime when there's high tides. and during storm events. It's been going on for an indeterminate amount of time. We've attempted to wrestle with it by trying to implement a project called a Flapgate project down at the outfall of a culvert that comes down Coloma, basically. And because of the Thank you. the position of the pipe relative to the bay bottom, it wasn't feasible to use a conventional type flap cape, which is more or less a metal flap. it would open up and then not close because of the sediment that gets into the pipe through backflow. So another approach was taken, and that was to look at it from a watershed standpoint. So we hired West Yost to help us with this problem, and they wanted to determine the impacts of localized flooding in the streets, determine the impacts of the 100-year flood area to the area. more or less confirming what FEMA did as a part of their flood insurance program. Determine some impacts relative to sea level rise projections and forecasts that have been made. And determine some impacts from settlement that's happening in the area of the landfill subsidence. And then finally consider some actions to prevent and control the flooding that happens. uh, Thank you. Thank you. This is the most technical. The tool that West Geos used is a computer model called XP-SWIM. This is a commercial version of a program that was developed by the EPA back in the late 60s and early 70s. It's a dynamic rainfall simulation computer model. It tries to simulate rainfall and dynamically shows how the flood waters route through the watershed. Regrettably, we don't have the program here to demonstrate this, but it's possible to show animation showing localized rises and falls of the water surfaces. Essentially allows the determination of flood pool elevations at various points in time as a storm passes through a watershed. This is an aerial photo showing the watershed that was analyzed. The outfall is basically here near Clipper Yacht Harbor and Healy's Auto Body, and then it goes up through the contours across 101 up into the hills of the Marin Headlands. The watershed area is between 100 and 150 acres in size. There's one main tributary, one culprit system with a bunch of branches that collect and convey waters down to Richardson Bay. using the SWMM model and calibrating it for a design storm and tidal behaviors and settlement. They calculated So... elevations at various inlets and and the manholes along the watershed. It doesn't come out very well, Predictably, there's a lot of flooding. The water surface is above the grade in the lower reaches of it. And we're even getting some pooling in the MLK area. It's a little safer here, but there still can be problems. This shows the localized area impacts. But the next slide is a little more telling. This is the localized area impacts. But the next slide is a little more telling. This is the aerial extent of the flooding. The SWMM model generated this more or less flood zone. And this is very consistent with what FEMA models predicted. In addition to that, it's embellished a little bit with known pooling along Gate 5 Road. This is Heathway, Gate 5 near Healy and a little bit beyond. And then there's also some flooding. at the MLK yard during a 100 year event. This area here shows an extent of a 500 year flood. Oh. |
| 02:38:54.12 | Todd Tichetz | In addition to that, we've, BCDC and ABAG have been promulgating some information about sea level rise. It's forecast to go 16 inches in the next 20 years, and 55 inches in the next 100 years. And this is a map of 100-year storm event, high tide, assuming this 55-inch sea level rise, and accounting for subsidence in the watershed. And it's extensive. Nearly the whole Marin ship is underwater except for Marina Plaza, and surprisingly, Bridgeway stays above water. Most of the MLK yard is also underwater. Olive Clipper is underwater. It's a disaster. |
| 02:40:18.44 | Todd Tichetz | My understanding is that there's a little rise on Bridgeway now from Harborway to Napa. There's a sharp bluff right in front of the Marina Plaza building. I believe that was the bulk of the hill. I could be far wrong. |
| 02:40:50.44 | Todd Tichetz | Yeah. So this is fairly alarming results. So what do we do? consultant had, came up with nine or eight projects to try to deal with it. Some of them Uh, inexpensive and very surgical, and the results they deal with the immediate 100-year situation and the current problem of the backing up and the tidal flooding of gate 5. That would be to, rather than a conventional flat gate at Coloma street, we'd do something called a duckbill, more or less a polymer type thing that can not fill up with the sediment like the mechanical one goes. Still, that's a fairly expensive project at about 320. A second remedy is to utilize some of the existing behavior of the culvert on coloma in that it backs up through gate. is to utilize some of the existing behavior of the culvert on Coloma in that it backs up through gate 5. And so what they would do is under that situation they would put a pump in there and just drive the water out in that zone that's under pressure. And then there would be a little bit of redirection of the There's a second version of that with a redirection of the flow through the wall of the point into the wall. into the next volume. And then they kind of mix the flat gate, duck bills, and then pumps. And then they get more extensive with valves and pump stations and detention basins. And there's raising gate 5 road and the parking lots. This is more or less taking what Clipper did on their property and trying to expand that. Most of you know a lot of the properties there have privately flood-proofed themselves. And in the process of doing that, they haven't disclosed to this staff the motivations for doing that and how it was paid for. |
| 02:43:18.04 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 02:43:20.29 | Todd Tichetz | Um, But we've been doing it on a little bit of a piecemeal basis, and I don't know how extensive those efforts are, but they are occurring. Thank you. Uh, |
| 02:43:39.63 | Todd Tichetz | With the sea level rise map, yeah. Yeah. |
| 02:43:47.81 | Todd Tichetz | There's a seventh option of constructing a levy and flood wall, unlike what's been done in New Orleans and other places. Very expensive. And then the estimate for flood proofing individual structures is a million dollars per acre as options. Clearly there's a few projects in here that can be done by ourselves without a lot of of. necessary coordination beyond the permitting process, but clearly the larger projects would require a lot of outreach to the marineship community as well as the regulatory agencies. There would be some extensive permitting to see the feasibility of installing levees and fill in that area. So what are the options from a practical standpoint? Consider funding one or more of those options. Consider funding a project to form a hazard abatement district. Typically, there's some that have been developed for flooding. There's some that are developed for landslide mitigations. They can be public. They can be private. There's lots of ways that this could be structured. |
| 02:45:10.42 | Unknown | and make sure that they're going to be |
| 02:45:14.95 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 02:45:30.41 | Todd Tichetz | You can provide, this is a very, kind of the very beginning, this is a scientific technical aspect. And clearly it has a lot of implications for both the land uses and the values and of things down there, entrepreneurship. You may have a lot of questions. We'll do the best to answer them tonight. If we can't, we'll continue. You can continue it and we'll come back. Or we can do nothing. for now. The problem's not going to go away. |
| 02:46:03.01 | Unknown | THE END OF |
| 02:46:03.08 | Dennis Webb | I don't know. |
| 02:46:03.39 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:46:05.76 | Todd Tichetz | the challenges of this situation is these flood zones are likely to happen. you We're seeing it in the Mississippi Delta Basin right now. We saw it in the Missouri Basin a few years ago. There will be a time when a flood disaster hits, and we never know exactly when it will happen. So now is a time where we've got some time to think about it and maybe come up with some scenarios to minimize the impacts. And finally, a big challenge of this is it's a water resource project and there's no way to tax storm events. So currently the Storm Drain Fund is a small assessment on people's tax bill. It brings in roughly $70,000 a year. Roughly $20,000 of that is used for clean water program. A little bit of it is used in-house to support mixed-op level projects, and then a little bit of it is allocated towards capital projects. Um, But it's still there's significant issues with regard to fully funding programs to deal with this. So that rate basically concludes the presentation. Staff's recommendation is that you accept this report. The report also includes some recommendations for regulation changes. There's a section in the building code that was imposed by, we adopted it, the city adopted it, to make people within the city eligible for flood insurance. So it's a flood damage prevention ordinance. So there's some suggestions for some modifications there. And there's a couple other sections in the municipal code that there has some minor surgical amendments. And primarily it would deal with development within the marine ship, significant development. the discussion with regard to 50% and remodel things probably wouldn't trigger some of these things, but new proposals and tear down proposals would probably trigger some need to do some rigor on the flood issues. |
| 02:47:59.74 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 02:48:22.22 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:48:51.00 | Todd Tichetz | We believe that there's two projects worthy of consideration, the current budget cycle So staff is recommending that you give consideration to funding Project 1, the Duckbill Flackgate for $319,000, and Project 3, the pressurized flow on Coloma. This redirect Northgate Road flows, I think the Waldo Point Harbor project is If that ever gets to construction, And they've been working pretty hard to keep doing that. there's an element that might get part of that done, so we might have to outreach to them to get authorizations and permissions to advance that if this goes. So that concludes my report. If you have questions, I'll be happy to answer them. |
| 02:49:49.48 | Carolyn Ford | Todd? Yes. Oh, Mr. Mayor. Yes. |
| 02:49:50.27 | Todd Tichetz | Yes. |
| 02:49:50.78 | Linda Pfeifer | Mr. Mayor. I know you asked questions. |
| 02:49:53.39 | Carolyn Ford | Uh... |
| 02:49:53.44 | Linda Pfeifer | I'm not sure. |
| 02:49:54.84 | Carolyn Ford | I have 12 questions that I submitted. |
| 02:49:57.71 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah. |
| 02:49:58.76 | Todd Tichetz | Yeah, I got these about five minutes before the meeting. |
| 02:50:01.85 | Carolyn Ford | I know. I'm sorry. I submitted them very late, but I read the report. It's very complex. There are so many things to consider in making this decision that I think we need more info. The council definitely needs more information on just the city's obligation versus the property owner's obligation, what the history has been in terms of the property owners wanting to |
| 02:50:13.02 | Unknown | Sure. |
| 02:50:33.88 | Carolyn Ford | help take care of this problem. Um, the amount of money that we have in the budget, which doesn't sound like it's much, why we would even consider options six and seven if they can't be, if there's a question as to whether or not they can be successfully implemented. You know, I'd like to know what are the past and generally accepted practices when a project that benefits both property owners and the city is undertaken. Does the city the day share the development and continuing maintenance costs or is it normally that project or the property owners. |
| 02:51:17.46 | Todd Tichetz | are they? I think that point is worthy of at least touching base on right now. Typically, you know, flooding is a major risk factor in property ownership. The national, has a national flood insurance program because the private sector hasn't been able to manage it very well. and not the FEMA's managing it particularly well either, but they're trying. Uh, Conventionally, they by doing having the flood insurance program, they set billing standards. And they use these mapping tools to try to establish the risk zones, and then they have, to the extent that exists in those zones. They encourage remodels and reconstructions to be done in a way that doesn't exacerbate the flooding, doesn't expand the flood zone by displacing the waters. But what's tricky in this situation is we've got the subsidence problem in the marine ship, which I don't know is well documented in the FEMA. information. |
| 02:52:40.66 | Unknown | Mm. |
| 02:52:41.16 | Todd Tichetz | So we've got ground settling that is exacerbating the pooling on the on the roads. that if the ground was stable, it might be above water. But the subsidence has varied from between 1968 and the most recent arrow photo in the 2000s to be between one and four feet I'm guessing there's another substantial settlement from the end of World War II to 1968, but that hasn't been quantified. |
| 02:53:17.11 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:53:17.17 | Unknown | I'm not sure. |
| 02:53:17.34 | Mike Kelly | There were some reports done by private owners out there because I saw them that quantified the subsidence and predicted the future subsidence, which as I remember was somewhere between a half an inch and an inch a year. |
| 02:53:17.38 | Todd Tichetz | THE END OF THE |
| 02:53:21.34 | Todd Tichetz | Yeah. |
| 02:53:29.86 | Todd Tichetz | Yeah, in the analysis they, the forecast period, they anticipate eight tenths of a foot of subsidence in the study period. Yeah. So, and then the |
| 02:53:31.42 | Mike Kelly | They... |
| 02:53:38.88 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 02:53:43.23 | Todd Tichetz | you The other issue that is emerging is the sea level rise. |
| 02:53:48.16 | Unknown | Sure. |
| 02:53:48.53 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 02:53:49.30 | Todd Tichetz | the regional the regional planning agencies are working with some targeted communities to work on some policies and programs to see what might work, what the challenges are. But those rules and regulations relative to sea level rise might be five to ten years out before they affect us directly. |
| 02:54:16.81 | Carolyn Ford | So, um, I don't think... That answered my question except that FEMA and government agencies might get involved later. What is generally, my question is what is the general practice in terms of property owners and the city paying for this kind of flood control. And a question related to that is what kinds of improvement districts can we look at to bring property owners into helping us, the city, pay for this kind of work that obviously benefits them as well. |
| 02:55:06.58 | Todd Tichetz | Thank you. Thank you. I believe beyond the two projects that we recommended, there would have to be a dialogue started with the marineship stakeholders. An effort was made to brief the WAM subcommittee on preliminary results of this. I don't believe their recommendations included that, those issues. Many people are aware they're planning as best as they can, but it might need a collective coordination effort. Council could demonstrate some leadership by organizing something along those lines to coordinate a planned effort. And then financing, again, a dialogue with the stakeholders would determine whether or not it could be done through the conventional assessment district type situation or whether a hazard abatement district, which is not much different than an assessment district, but it's a little bit different. And the specifics I don't know. |
| 02:56:24.39 | Carolyn Ford | Yeah. I think we council needs to understand that the differences and understand more about this project or at least I feel I do I can't speak for the other council members but and the other thing is that the, Thank you. that I want to ask is does staff consider the two projects that you're recommending we look at for budgeting purposes to be solely city responsibility in terms of storm drains and water flow control? Okay. Thank you. |
| 02:57:03.30 | Herb Weiner | Yes. Right. |
| 02:57:08.93 | Herb Weiner | Okay. you |
| 02:57:12.19 | Jonathan Leone | Quick question on the duct bill you mentioned. I'm assuming for this budgeted amount, |
| 02:57:14.93 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 02:57:17.71 | Jonathan Leone | that it would function versus what you said before, that the flapper that you currently had contemplated wouldn't function. This would require some excavation and other adjustments Thank you. Thank you. |
| 02:57:27.85 | Todd Tichetz | Right. Yeah, there are. |
| 02:57:29.78 | Jonathan Leone | But that's more of a title issue than an outflow issue, right? Correct. |
| 02:57:34.62 | Todd Tichetz | Correct. |
| 02:57:35.75 | Jonathan Leone | And so how much when West Yost did their calculations, how much of the flooding You know, basically the heavy floods are... both function of rain and tide, but how much of the flooding of Gate 5 and that one spot is tidal on average influence versus storm outflows? |
| 02:57:58.46 | Todd Tichetz | I don't know that West Yost quantified that in their report. In the last five years, I've been through the area on many occasions during high tide and major storm events. |
| 02:58:06.17 | Unknown | I don't know. |
| 02:58:18.34 | Todd Tichetz | Um, Earlier in the year, we got notice from AVAG about an unusually high tide, and they wanted us to document it. On that particular day, the weather was great. It was warm. There was no wind. Sun was out. There was pooling on Gate 5 and a little bit on Heathway, but a few years earlier on a less than a king tide, but on a very major storm event, it was a foot deep versus four or five inches. |
| 02:58:34.81 | Unknown | It was. Thank you. |
| 02:58:59.16 | Mike Kelly | There was one day I tried to drive through there in the morning in an active storm and the tide was high and I turned around and now I have a Jeep. |
| 02:59:05.90 | Unknown | I've turned around. |
| 02:59:06.84 | Todd Tichetz | Exactly. |
| 02:59:07.33 | Unknown | . |
| 02:59:07.58 | Unknown | you |
| 02:59:07.77 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:59:09.22 | Todd Tichetz | And then the wind can also run up the tides as well. |
| 02:59:12.51 | Mike Kelly | up to the |
| 02:59:15.73 | Todd Tichetz | The model did attempt to, in their literature search, they did find some reports that assessed |
| 02:59:24.54 | Mike Kelly | Would these two solutions keep that road more or less operable, open all the time for the time being? |
| 02:59:32.00 | Todd Tichetz | That's the expectation. |
| 02:59:34.28 | Mike Kelly | Yeah, and the money for this would come from? |
| 02:59:37.66 | Todd Tichetz | There's a little bit, I don't know if it's fully funded, but I believe there is a bit of a reserve in the StormBrain account, how much we'll have to disclose in some of the budget discussions. |
| 02:59:50.06 | Mike Kelly | There was a talk about that the sewer project out there would also fund some of this by virtue of the bank loan infrastructure. |
| 03:00:02.70 | Todd Tichetz | In last year's budget, we did have a project in anticipation of that. We did get word from the state revolving fund that they wouldn't fund it. No dough? But that was under the stimulus grant program. Okay. They might provide the city a loan if we had a revenue source to pay it back. |
| 03:00:17.31 | Mike Kelly | No doubt. Thank you. |
| 03:00:20.74 | Unknown | Okay. |
| 03:00:21.19 | Unknown | I am. |
| 03:00:22.04 | Carolyn Ford | Yeah. |
| 03:00:22.39 | Unknown | MADISON. |
| 03:00:28.67 | Unknown | you Okay. |
| 03:00:29.56 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 03:00:31.22 | Carolyn Ford | On, excuse me, under option one and maybe in the report, Yoast report, they say that during wet weather, the flat gates would not prevent |
| 03:00:47.67 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 03:00:47.79 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:00:48.70 | Carolyn Ford | the flooding. Thank you. |
| 03:00:49.66 | Mike Kelly | Not necessarily because it would... |
| 03:00:50.98 | Carolyn Ford | you |
| 03:00:50.98 | Todd Tichetz | It wasn't mechanical. Yeah, what happens is it needs a certain amount of fill to open up. |
| 03:00:51.15 | Mike Kelly | It wasn't mechanical. |
| 03:00:52.04 | Carolyn Ford | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 03:00:55.52 | Carolyn Ford | So it wouldn't solve the problem all the time, the flooding, only during dry weather. Okay. |
| 03:01:00.93 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 03:01:00.95 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 03:01:01.00 | Linda Pfeifer | All the time. |
| 03:01:01.61 | Mike Kelly | What? |
| 03:01:02.17 | Todd Tichetz | Not on the Mac, you start. |
| 03:01:03.63 | Herb Weiner | Yeah. |
| 03:01:05.07 | Unknown | or light storms. |
| 03:01:06.92 | Herb Weiner | Yeah. Thank you. Well, we could always get the Army Corps of Engineers to build 11. |
| 03:01:12.58 | Unknown | eleven Okay. Thank you, Todd. |
| 03:01:18.25 | Herb Weiner | Okay, thank you Todd. |
| 03:01:19.97 | Todd Tichetz | Yeah. |
| 03:01:20.03 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 03:01:20.15 | Todd Tichetz | department. |
| 03:01:20.80 | Unknown | laughter |
| 03:01:20.88 | Todd Tichetz | Yeah. |
| 03:01:20.96 | Herb Weiner | Bye. |
| 03:01:20.98 | Todd Tichetz | Thank you. |
| 03:01:21.10 | Herb Weiner | is there any public comment on this item |
| 03:01:23.33 | Todd Tichetz | Thank you. |
| 03:01:28.19 | Herb Weiner | Okay, Lois. |
| 03:01:29.11 | Louis Shireman | you |
| 03:01:33.65 | Louis Shireman | My name is Louis Shireman. I live at 6th Gate 6 1⁄2 Road in the Floating Homes community. And I just want to remind the City Council, if any of you were out late last night, it was a 6.7-foot tide. We probably had, because of the storm and low pressure, another half foot to a foot of water. So I will guarantee you Gate 5 Road was flooding last night. I believe this is an issue that needs to be dealt with and dealt with soon. Is that why you changed it to floating homes? |
| 03:02:04.28 | Herb Weiner | Bye. |
| 03:02:04.33 | Linda Pfeifer | I'm |
| 03:02:06.17 | Herb Weiner | Okay, well, okay, bring it up here. And thank you, Todd. I think we can move right along. |
| 03:02:13.12 | Mike Kelly | Yeah. I sort of have some knowledge of this because I've been working with Heath. I think the issue here is that we've got to take some short-term steps to ameliorate the problem to at least get some kind of reduced relief, reduced relief though it may be because there's still going to be flooding. And then the property owners are going to have to do something on their own. I mean, they're probably going to have to build tubs around them and put sumps and pumps in those things to keep themselves dry. That's short-term. Long-term, you saw. So this is a federal flood project if I ever saw one, but whether there's any money from the feds is another question of whether we would be entitled to it before somebody else is going to ask for it, like the Mississippi Delta. So it's a problematic thing. I think we just have to take some baby steps here and do the right thing and And then look for longer term solutions now that we know the problem is there and on us. If we don't, we will lose our industrial base out there. Heath has already said that if they can't get some relief, they're probably going to have to look for another place to go. That would be tragedy to lose them. They're growing. |
| 03:02:52.38 | Unknown | any money from the feds. |
| 03:03:01.54 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:03:24.77 | Herb Weiner | It's been a long time. |
| 03:03:25.91 | Mike Kelly | And the next thing you know, it will be another property and properties will become unusable and the tax base starts to drop and so we're in trouble. So I think we need to take short-term action and continue to look for solutions that are more long-term and for funding. |
| 03:03:34.31 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:03:34.34 | Carolyn Ford | So I think, |
| 03:03:42.38 | Carolyn Ford | I agree I think that we need to do the city needs to repair what is the responsibility of the city and these two projects are the lowest cost I think that at the same time though we need to really explore with the property owners there what can be done and and so we need to have staff look into more of the issues. |
| 03:04:08.28 | Mike Kelly | A good example of what has been done is across the street at the, I forget what the building's called, but the anchor cafe is in there. Yes. They've built a retaining wall and a berm and a lot of other things to keep the flooding away from the building. And it works. |
| 03:04:14.66 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:04:14.67 | Carolyn Ford | Yes. |
| 03:04:20.99 | Carolyn Ford | And it works. And D.J. Healy's done something there, too. I'm not quite sure what. You killed. |
| 03:04:23.99 | Mike Kelly | too i'm not quite sure you can't you can't walk to the building during the flooding without getting your you know calves wet oh for that but they're safe so yeah so we need small boats down there okay |
| 03:04:29.24 | Carolyn Ford | Oh, for that going? |
| 03:04:31.03 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 03:04:31.26 | Carolyn Ford | Yeah. |
| 03:04:31.77 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:04:31.82 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 03:04:33.07 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah. Absolutely. |
| 03:04:35.40 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:04:35.48 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 03:04:35.95 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:04:36.00 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 03:04:36.04 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 03:04:37.07 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 03:04:37.17 | Unknown | Okay. |
| 03:04:38.05 | Linda Pfeifer | Bye. |
| 03:04:38.10 | Unknown | on there. |
| 03:04:38.49 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 03:04:38.81 | Mike Kelly | Okay. |
| 03:04:38.98 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah, I would agree that we need to take some short-term, you know, these, like you said, baby steps. But I had a quick question for Todd, if I may. I'm sorry. What is the longevity of these solutions? I mean, we invest. |
| 03:04:39.02 | Unknown | Right. |
| 03:04:39.43 | Mike Kelly | you |
| 03:04:39.60 | Unknown | . |
| 03:04:58.82 | Linda Pfeifer | you know around 500K in project one and project three, how long will this duck flap and, you know, the duck bill flap gate and the pressurized flow How long can we expect that? |
| 03:05:09.52 | Todd Tichetz | What? The duck bill relies on a polymer thing, so I'm guessing that has probably a 10 to 20 year life. But the changes that are rendered to allow that to be installed, could have more or less a 20 to 100 year life if it's done really well. The work along Coloma probably involves some sort of pumping, and the redirection would have the life of a concrete line storm drain, which is several hundred years if it's done right. Even if it's done poorly, it's still 40 or 50 years. |
| 03:06:02.64 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 03:06:03.86 | Todd Tichetz | type |
| 03:06:04.40 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 03:06:04.70 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 03:06:04.72 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 03:06:04.73 | Linda Pfeifer | I think it's a good question. |
| 03:06:05.69 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 03:06:09.22 | Jonathan Leone | Where would the operating costs for the pump, I mean, who would pay the cost of operating? You know, where would that, I mean, this would be part of your concept of a... There would be... |
| 03:06:16.87 | Todd Tichetz | There would be some O&M costs on any sort of pump solution. Thank you. |
| 03:06:21.29 | Jonathan Leone | Yeah. |
| 03:06:22.76 | Mike Kelly | Well, that's a good candidate for some kind of a district down there. Absolutely. Because those costs could be absorbed partially by businesses. It would be helpful to them. But the long, I mean these big chunks like 27 million here, 22 million there, 9 million there, I just thought of the question. |
| 03:06:24.06 | Todd Tichetz | Thank you. |
| 03:06:24.26 | Jonathan Leone | That's a good job. |
| 03:06:24.97 | Todd Tichetz | Yeah. |
| 03:06:25.08 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 03:06:27.62 | Todd Tichetz | Absolutely. |
| 03:06:29.17 | Unknown | could be absorbed. |
| 03:06:29.88 | Michael Moyle | you |
| 03:06:30.06 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 03:06:30.08 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:06:30.10 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah. |
| 03:06:30.18 | Michael Moyle | BARBARA |
| 03:06:38.08 | Jonathan Leone | $29 million there. Yeah, this is kind of a catch-22, right? Because you're going to get the calls for, why should I spend a million dollars per acre if you don't? You've got to let me change my uses so I can pay for it |
| 03:06:40.61 | Mike Kelly | Yeah. |
| 03:06:50.26 | Jonathan Leone | building this berm around my property, so you gotta let me put office in here. |
| 03:06:53.64 | Mike Kelly | Yeah. |
| 03:06:53.89 | Jonathan Leone | So. |
| 03:06:54.72 | Mike Kelly | Well, we may find some unique financing source for that, too. But I think we just have to keep studying it and talking. I think some of those people, already across the street, they probably spent several hundred thousand dollars doing what they've done. Well, that's going to... |
| 03:07:08.71 | Jonathan Leone | Well, that's going to help them in the very short run, but not for the four foot rise at sea level. |
| 03:07:11.66 | Mike Kelly | Yeah. not for a four foot rise at sea level. No, no. No, but I, I, I. That's, that's, we're back to Holland. Yeah. |
| 03:07:16.64 | Herb Weiner | No, but I... |
| 03:07:22.00 | Herb Weiner | Well, but these two items are, I think, are necessities, and we have to kind of look to handle it. |
| 03:07:30.37 | Mike Kelly | And this will enable us to get the Heath Wade thing done as well, because we now have a connector for that, and so that's private. |
| 03:07:34.34 | Herb Weiner | Yeah. |
| 03:07:34.66 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 03:07:37.99 | Jonathan Leone | That's private. Well, I would say this is a small relative to these other bigger projects, but where you would want to see if there's some joint cooperation possibilities even for these two smaller projects. Okay. |
| 03:07:42.32 | Mike Kelly | Okay. |
| 03:07:42.78 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 03:07:42.81 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. Yeah, beginning. |
| 03:07:49.16 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 03:07:49.21 | Peter Van Meter | Oh. |
| 03:07:53.61 | Mike Kelly | Definitely. |
| 03:07:54.27 | Herb Weiner | all right thank you thank you todd okay |
| 03:07:58.27 | Mike Kelly | So I move we accept and approve. |
| 03:08:00.19 | Herb Weiner | you All right. |
| 03:08:02.07 | Linda Pfeifer | second. |
| 03:08:03.11 | Herb Weiner | All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Okay. Thank you, Todd. Okay. Now that we're an hour behind, let's go on to the next item. |
| 03:08:04.06 | Linda Pfeifer | Aye. Aye. |
| 03:08:13.05 | Jonathan Leone | Next item. So the recommended motions were to accept the study and direct staff to work on the capital improvement project. |
| 03:08:17.41 | Linda Pfeifer | Right. |
| 03:08:17.69 | Herb Weiner | Yeah. |
| 03:08:18.05 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:08:21.76 | Jonathan Leone | Yes. |
| 03:08:21.84 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 03:08:21.86 | Carolyn Ford | Yes, let's not forget that part. |
| 03:08:22.37 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 03:08:22.38 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 03:08:22.47 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 03:08:23.92 | Jonathan Leone | One and three. |
| 03:08:24.37 | Herb Weiner | No, that's what I meant. you |
| 03:08:26.57 | Carolyn Ford | you |
| 03:08:26.58 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 03:08:26.64 | Carolyn Ford | Okay. |
| 03:08:26.65 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. Okay. Well, the fund. City Council priority calendar, step three. Prove the annual priority calendar. I approve. Okay. |
| 03:08:38.53 | Adam Politzer | I can't. |
| 03:08:43.80 | Adam Politzer | Adam, please. Mr. Mayor and Councilmembers, I will keep the staff report brief because this is now the third step. and the process is working its way to the end. Although tonight, you may find the most difficult. So with that said, for our public, What will happen tonight is that you'll review the individual rankings of each council member. and then the total will come forward, as you can see on the screen here in front of you. put the screen on for the community that's watching from home. And you can see the individual rankings and then how that collective rankings of the individuals come to a total. um, from the review of these individual rankings and its total. You'll pause and take public comment. give the public one last opportunity to make a pitch for why their item is really important. They now have the opportunity to see how you individually rank them. and try to persuade you to change your vote. As in any case, when an item comes before the council, they can change their ranking if you so choose. Um, If you do choose to go that route, you can be guaranteed that we're going to be here a long time because as we change it, there'll be others that will change other items and we'll kind of end up manipulating this to death and then eventually wear yourselves out. |
| 03:10:15.24 | Unknown | Thank you. Bye. |
| 03:10:23.44 | Adam Politzer | and so I in the past we have not made significant changes. What we have done by a vote of three or more. is move items up and just pick them out of the list and move them up rather than trying to change scores to manipulate the total. So the recommendation tonight is to review the individual items that have been, ranking sheets that have been forwarded here on the screen. Take public comment, give them the opportunity to pitch their item. And then for you folks to review, make sure that you agree with the final ranking. and then draw the line. And we recommend that we draw the line |
| 03:11:08.65 | Unknown | Bye. |
| 03:11:08.72 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:11:08.75 | Unknown | Bye. |
| 03:11:12.97 | Adam Politzer | at 20 Last year you drew it at 25 and I'm available to take questions. |
| 03:11:20.21 | Linda Pfeifer | Do you have any questions? Thank you very much. |
| 03:11:25.29 | Carolyn Ford | Do you have a listing that puts these in order of from highest to lowest or lowest to highest? |
| 03:11:33.71 | Jonathan Leone | What can we do? Can I add some clarification? So just to the public remembers and city council too is these are |
| 03:11:36.29 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 03:11:36.31 | Carolyn Ford | So, |
| 03:11:36.87 | Adam Politzer | Thank you. |
| 03:11:37.05 | Jonathan Leone | issues. |
| 03:11:43.52 | Jonathan Leone | Why don't you clarify what these are? These are special projects outside the normal flow of people's jobs and should staff time and or money be allocated to these outside of the normal flow of their jobs. Is that correct? That doesn't mean they're going to get done. That is correct. That doesn't mean they're going to be done, or it just means do these deserve special attention, either from staff time or money? |
| 03:11:57.00 | Adam Politzer | That doesn't mean they're going to get done. |
| 03:12:04.68 | Adam Politzer | Yeah, the critical piece here is to make sure that the staff and the council are on the same page. And in the past, Council would give direction and staff would take it and we would put it in no context of how much work was already on the staff's plate. get much done. This process has helped us move items up Thank you. assign staff to work with council committees or community committees to get clarification and to get the projects moving forward. The other component here is that it also has to fall in line with the budget process. And so if we assign an item to be a high priority, then we also need to put resources, which means dollars in some cases, next to it. So that way staff, you're directing staff to take time out of their schedule to work on this, which means they're not working on other projects. And it also puts dollars, especially during these lean times, towards projects that the council has prioritized. |
| 03:13:13.27 | Linda Pfeifer | I want to see the 25th line. |
| 03:13:19.06 | Jonathan Leone | So that's the top 20 up to that point. Thank you. |
| 03:13:21.58 | Linda Pfeifer | 21, top 21. |
| 03:13:21.59 | Jonathan Leone | Top 21, top 21. Thank you. |
| 03:13:24.21 | Linda Pfeifer | Oh, Tuck-Toning? |
| 03:13:24.82 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 03:13:25.96 | Linda Pfeifer | Oh, I got you. Thank you. |
| 03:13:28.68 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah. |
| 03:13:30.99 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 03:13:31.08 | Unknown | Okey-do. Okay. Thank you. |
| 03:13:33.95 | Jonathan Leone | you |
| 03:13:34.00 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:13:34.10 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 03:13:34.30 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:13:34.91 | Jonathan Leone | Yeah, let's look at all. |
| 03:13:34.94 | Unknown | Yeah, let's look at all. I'm sorry.. |
| 03:13:35.97 | Unknown | I'm sorry. |
| 03:13:38.92 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 03:13:39.06 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:13:39.16 | Jonathan Leone | you |
| 03:13:42.91 | Unknown | Looks good to me. |
| 03:14:00.86 | Unknown | It just goes on over a little less. |
| 03:14:09.32 | Herb Weiner | I think we've cut 25 and we've got another one. Yeah, right. |
| 03:14:13.30 | Linda Pfeifer | This was a heartless |
| 03:14:13.30 | Linda Pfeifer | This was a hard list to do. It was very hard. |
| 03:14:14.38 | Herb Weiner | to do. |
| 03:14:14.83 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 03:14:14.89 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 03:14:14.90 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. Thank you. No shortage of things to do. |
| 03:14:24.99 | Mike Kelly | you So where do you want to go now? Thank you. |
| 03:14:28.10 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:14:30.41 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 03:14:31.05 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 03:14:31.90 | Adam Politzer | I think you want to take public comment as your first step. And then once you close public comment, then you folks can, if you agree that this makes sense, then draw the line. Our recommendation is 20. You did 25 last year. Um, and you can do more or less. That's at the discretion of the council but if you do more, recognize that you're going to need the dollars, which I don't believe that we have. and you're going to need additional staff, which I don't believe that you're going to have. So you're going to have to look at other options and at this point we would have to come back to you if you went over 25 Um, and during the budget process that will play itself out. |
| 03:15:16.56 | Carolyn Ford | Could I ask for one more item? Could we get a printout of that so that we can, council members, can look at the whole thing and then see it all at once? And this is the prioritized version, so we can see actually what is below the line. At the same time, we're looking at what is above the line. |
| 03:15:41.39 | Adam Politzer | So we would request up to five minute break so that we can print this if that's the desire |
| 03:15:49.76 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 03:15:52.64 | Carolyn Ford | Yeah, that would be good. |
| 03:15:57.47 | Unknown | Thank you. while that break is taking place, public comment. Thank you. Thank you. |
| 03:16:00.20 | Jonathan Leone | Yeah, we could do that. Let's do that. |
| 03:16:00.96 | Unknown | Thank you. Well, let's do that. Yes. Let's move this to Hong Kong. |
| 03:16:02.43 | Unknown | Yes. |
| 03:16:04.64 | Unknown | Hey, we're getting... |
| 03:16:06.58 | Unknown | Look at this now. |
| 03:16:06.88 | Unknown | Look at this. |
| 03:16:09.18 | Herb Weiner | Okay, well let's do that then. Let's keep going. All right, let's keep on moving. Let's open it for public comment. Okay, you just stand up in line, please. |
| 03:16:24.23 | Chris Gallagher | Okay. I hope. I hope. Good evening, Mayor and fellow council members. My name is Chris Gallagher, and I was the chair of the Waterfront |
| 03:16:24.40 | Herb Weiner | I hope. I'm sorry. |
| 03:16:33.36 | Chris Gallagher | and friendship committee better known as WAM. Tomorrow night marks the one-year anniversary of our presentation to you and the work our committee accomplished in the two years prior. I'm here tonight representing that committee and its members and to remind you of all the work we prepared on your behalf. for free If you remember the RAM Committee. |
| 03:16:55.33 | Unknown | Committee. |
| 03:16:56.72 | Chris Gallagher | was an appointed committee of the Council, unlike the other imagined Sausalito committees, which were formed totally on grassroots efforts. The council was wise to select 25 individuals from the community representing a cross-section of interest. We had individuals who were from business, historical, maritime interests, and folks ties to the community and the majority of these members were residents. If you also remember, many of these individuals had a reputation of not seeing eye to eye with one another. and the relationships were far from cordial. However, after working two full years together, both sides put aside their differences and became united on their vision for the Marinship Area under a unified mission statement and produced a report that everyone was in agreement of. There was no Minority WAN Report. This achievement alone is worth recognizing and being acknowledged. In fact, to this day, many of the WAM members occasionally meet together socially to touch base with one another, and many are working on other committees in town, something that would have not been heard of before we started. If you recall this time last year, reexamining the Marinship Specific Plan was on the priority calendar and next to the bottom, if I recall. And now seeing this list, that's where it's back. certainly way below the line. and after that evening and arms and suggestion that it would be an insult to the committee if the marineship specific plan was not moved to at least above the line, you all agreed. I'm asking you tonight that not only the Marinship specific plans stay above the line like it before but the move further up the list. This is the only way the issues in the Marinship Area will ever be addressed. At the last council meeting, you heard from Robin Petrovic, the owner of Heath Ceramics, and Gate 5 Road. Todd just spoke about his issues. Robin was a member of the WAM committee. We are fortunate to have Heath in our community as they bring approximately 1,000 visitors a month and a tremendous amount of business to Sausalito. and their product is synonymous with us. Robin made you all aware of the issues that are facing his business In particular, they are not pretty. He sits on a roadway owned by the city and is the main access to their front door. Each visitor has to navigate a rough roadway with large and deep potholes. This is not a very inviting way to welcome customers. This is after they have navigated a street that, God forbid, they come at high tide where the water comes up through the sewer system. The situation, of course, is made worse when there's a storm. Very often both the visitors and the employees have to enter through the back of the building due to the inaccessibility of the front entrance because of the water. It would be a shame to lose a business like Keith, especially since they've been part of the historical landscape of Sausalito for such a long time. I honestly do not know how they put up with the situation. The Council will soon be hearing on another agenda about anticipated plans and opportunities for Sausalito as it pertains to the America's Cup in 2013. If Sausalie is going to be a player in this event and reap the economic benefits, then many of the recommendations that are in the WAM report will need to be addressed and accomplished. Otherwise, you might as well kiss that opportunity goodbye. Many of the issues are not short-term and need to be addressed sooner rather than later. specifically issues pertaining to access along the water, mooring, field, transportation, etc. All those issues have now been studied over and over and over again for you, and you have the reports. Now the ball's in your court to make some decisions and to prove to these volunteers their work was not in vain. |
| 03:20:50.45 | Herb Weiner | Thank you, Chris. |
| 03:20:55.87 | Leslie Rose | Hi, I think you all know me by now. My name is Leslie Rose, and I'm here on behalf of the Friends of the Sausalito Community Gardens. We've actually been hard at work for the last two and a half years. The first year we asked to be placed on the priority calendar, yeah, you got to keep scrolling on down. And we don't care whether you move us up the list or move the line down. We'll take either one. |
| 03:21:08.64 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 03:21:08.73 | Unknown | . |
| 03:21:08.78 | Unknown | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 03:21:16.74 | Leslie Rose | We are asking to be placed higher on your list. This is my third time in the last three months to record to request such a change. The Saucido Community Garden is a nonprofit. We've been doing work for two and a half years. We've done substantial research. You all have our very detailed and comprehensive proposal. You've had it since January 19th when the Park and Rec Commission recommended that you consider our proposal. We have a list of more than 200 supporters. We've had positive media coverage. We've got a website. We have grant target proposals. And let's be honest, a community garden is a good thing. It's got clear community benefit. There are opportunities for education with school children on how to grow their own organic food. We've got opportunities for seniors and those with access issues. We've got people in the community who have fixed or limited incomes. You saw all the people that came here earlier who were concerned about their access to organic produce. This is a chance to do that. We are budget neutral. We think we require minimal staff time. And I think tonight we've heard of the projections of flooding. We've heard about homeowners that might set houses on fire so they can remodel. So clearly, clearly we belong in the emergency preparedness. We belong in emergency preparedness category as well. And in fact, some of the grant potential we've identified really does fall into disaster preparedness and disaster relief. |
| 03:22:37.56 | Unknown | Oh, my God. |
| 03:22:37.61 | Unknown | Some of the questions |
| 03:22:38.47 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 03:22:44.88 | Leslie Rose | Um... you know, we knew that early on we could have two or 300 people of our supporters come and turn out at a meeting like that. And actually some of them did suggest coming towards City Hall with torches. And we said, no, we can just have a good discussion. We didn't think we needed to bring them to the meeting and disrupt the proceedings in order to get above the line. We spent all this work, we have a really talented group of people working on this. We're not giving up, we're not going away. We at least deserve the consideration of the city council and a public hearing. If you have issues with the proposal, we'd love to hear them. We'd love feedback. This deserves a community hearing. And to not put us above the line is essentially killing the project and deferring it for a year. But we're not going away. If we need to collect signatures for a petition to put it on a citywide vote, we will do that. So I respectfully ask for nutrition, community benefits, senior citizens, emergency preparedness, nonprofit, budget neutral, minimal staff time, and a really large group of supporters that simply want to do something that's green and community based. Please move our project above the line. |
| 03:23:58.81 | Unknown | Mm-hmm. |
| 03:24:02.47 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:24:03.62 | Louis Shireman | Hi, I'm Alois Scheirman. I am the Administrative Coordinator of the Floating Homes Association. You have an item on your list here to give three-hour free parking to the houseboat community and Marin City. I'd like to very strongly encourage you to move that one forward. It is an item that would probably have minimal to no cost to you, as well as a significant benefit to both communities. I know a number of people who resist shopping in Sausalito due to the parking considerations. That is a refrain I have heard for the 15 years I've lived in that community. And I'd like to encourage you to carry that project forward. Thank you. |
| 03:24:03.81 | Unknown | All right. Um, |
| 03:24:50.08 | Louis Shireman | Thank you. |
| 03:24:50.09 | Peter Van Meter | Peter Van Meter, 4Cloud View Circle, speaking here as an unofficial representative of your business advisory committee. It was a group of people who have met and deliberated on input to your priority list. We put the Marinship specific plan revision as the number one item of recommendation to you. Once again, as Chris has pointed out, it's way down the list. I can see if no more project, it's more important to the city of Sausalito and its continued economic vitality and the, Basically, solving a lot of problems as we've heard already discussed tonight as working with that plan. and to have it not, up in at least the top ten absolutely makes no sense to me. The second item on our The recommendation list from BAC was a downtown comprehensive plan. We've seen that come up over and over again in discussions here, piecemeal projects that you've done that have been implemented in a non-coordinated fashion where they don't come together, pieces of a puzzle that don't even match, like I said, you don't have a comprehensive downtown plan. I don't even see it on the list at all. Of course, we can't really see the list. We're waiting for the printout. Maybe you can show me if it's even here at all. Why it wasn't even on the list to be considered. This doesn't make any sense. Again, you're ignoring the input from one of your committees. You know, we kind of wonder why does the Business Advisory Committee exist. You have co-funded an economic study project with the Chamber of Commerce. One of the recommendations of the BAC was to implement the recommendations from that report soon to be filed through Rob Eiler, the consultant that's been hired by the city in the Chamber of Commerce. I don't see that even under consideration on your list. And again, a recommendation from your BAC is not even on the list unless you point it out to me. |
| 03:26:31.70 | Linda Pfeifer | Again, a recommendation. Thank you. Line 22 is the Local Economic Development Incentives Plan. |
| 03:26:39.43 | Peter Van Meter | Okay, thank you. Good 22. Great. Let's get up a little bit higher. |
| 03:26:44.12 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 03:26:44.14 | Unknown | Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. |
| 03:26:46.01 | Peter Van Meter | Thank you for that correction. It's so wonderful. |
| 03:26:49.10 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 03:26:50.80 | Peter Van Meter | But the main point I want to make is the marineship specific plan or general plan update. That has to be up in your top 10, absolutely. I don't understand. I'd like to have the people that voted against that. |
| 03:26:55.66 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 03:27:02.27 | Peter Van Meter | Explain their rationale. for ranking it low. so the combined score comes out too low. Why? Why in the world would you not have that? study, be it the topic or this. It just doesn't make any sense. Thank you. |
| 03:27:26.46 | Unknown | My name is Bridget Brewer. I'm here to speak on behalf of the community garden. As many of you know, I've been working for about two and a half years diligently on this spoke for us very well. And I just would like to add that if it means that if we're below the line, Do we stop? everything for A year. So I'm hoping that we'll get some clarification on that, because we have more than 200 people waiting to hear from us. How are we going to move forward? We have a lot of people willing to give us money. We have fundraisers. lined up. And this is very confusing to us to Ask for just a little bit of staff time to clarify some issues. And if we don't get that, is that just a complete disaster for us? Because as Leslie said, we're not willing to throw all this hard work away, and we really think that we've gotten nothing but positive responses from you know, planning department, park and rec, city council members. So this is a bit of a confusion for some of us. So, We're here tonight just to again say if it means that we need to be above the line, if that's what we need then we've got Heartily recommend that, thank you. |
| 03:28:51.74 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:28:51.76 | Susan Shea | Hi, I'm Susan Shea, Sausalito resident. I'm one of the 200 people on that list. I'm kind of a latecomer to the community garden, but I want to add my support for it. I'm one of the people who heard about it recently, was impressed with the level of work and commitment and responsiveness that this group of people put in after the first hearing that they got. and what it will do for my community. and how inclusive it is. and how carefully it's been thought out. and how many opportunities there are for people like me who are older and people who are younger and children I think it's a really wonderful project that comes along at a time in our economy and in our lives when it really makes a difference, we're one of the only communities in Marin that doesn't have a community garden. So I'd like to argue also to put it above the line. I've volunteered to help them raise money. I want to do what I can to help make it happen. And I really think that, you know, plants take time to grow. And so when you put something off like this for a year, It's a cyclical thing. It has a really long impact. So with all these little good projects, I want to just add my voice and ask you to put it above the line. Thank you. |
| 03:30:07.83 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. Anybody else? Where were you now? |
| 03:30:15.78 | Marina O'Neill | Good evening. My name is Marina O'Neill. I own SF Bay Adventures, and I'm also |
| 03:30:15.92 | Herb Weiner | THE END OF |
| 03:30:16.42 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:30:21.03 | Marina O'Neill | on the Suscelito Chamber of Commerce as Board of Directors. I want to just second what Chris Gallagher has said here. I sat here for that meeting when that WAM report was presented to you guys. I'm looking at this list and I'm recognizing that there's multiple items that pertain to our waterfront. And if you guys would simply go back and read that report and respond to it, Start acting on it. A lot of these lines will disappear. And so I just want to second that. And in addition, I'd also like to request that you guys pay attention to the waterfront properties that you own. The America's Cup is coming. Those properties are dilapidated and they need attention. There's opportunity there. and we have We've knocked on your doors. We've really tried to get some attention for this waterfront, and it just feels so neglected. This is an opportunity. If you do not take advantage of it, it will not have the financial impact that it should on Sausalito. It will help all of us if you guys start paying attention. So please go back to that WAM report. please consider your waterfront opportunities and make them a priority. Thanks. |
| 03:31:38.64 | Heather Richard | I'm Heather Richard and I'm a resident at 300 Napa Street here at Galilee Harbor. I'd also like to reiterate what Marina just said, it's very important, and what Chris Gallagher has said, I was also here when the RAM report came out, anxiously awaiting an opportunity for us, for a small group of us who live next to Cass Marina at Galilee Harbor, to put a project forward to the city council to turn that into a very, very positive community boating center for Sausalito. Since the America's Cup has come and the amount of dock space for charter boat drop off and pick up has been reduced in the city and there are several properties that the city owns that could be used for that. We've also included that into our proposal for the Community Boating Center. So all in one package, we'd like to present, we'd like to have the opportunity to present all the hard work that we've done for a year and a half now to put together a plan that would have lasting impact, something really wonderful for this city, really appropriate for a waterfront community that would also solve the charter boat drop off and pick up issue. I'm also here to speak as a mother and a resident who sat through one of the most horrific storms we've had in my memory on the waterfront. and got up at 2 o'clock in the morning and ran over to Cass Marina, tied off docks that were floating away, threatening to come in and float up against my house in the middle of the night and cause a lot of damage because the property sat there. completely derelict and dilapidated, and I also have kicked out lots of drunks that are camping in the bushes, and Bill Price and I have talked back and forth over the winter, and we've really watched this place. And it just makes my heart sick that nothing's being done. Something has to happen this year. It can't sit another year. Please put it above the line. Thank you very much. Okay. |
| 03:33:40.61 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 03:33:42.97 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:33:43.16 | Unknown | you |
| 03:33:45.23 | Diane Johnson | Hi, my name is Diane Johnson. I live at 161 Filbert and I want to speak on behalf of the garden, the community garden. And I want to say that the organizers of the effort to make the garden happen have been working for quite a few years and they've really put together a great plan. They're organized. It's something that isn't going to cost the city and it will only benefit the city. And it seems like their efforts, if they go another year, then we've wasted another growing season or more than one growing season. And there's a lot of work to be done to make the garden really happen. And there's people who are involved, who came to the meetings, who came to the park and rec meeting. A lot of folks, a lot of my neighbors came. and spoke in favor of it and I really felt like it was really starting to happen and I hate to see it get put down as a low number below the line and not considered by the council I think that that, The community support has been really, really good, and I think that there's a lot of people who can't garden, either because they're living on the water, they're living in an apartment, they don't have arable land, they don't have sunshine, And the spot that's chosen is a really good spot And also, I noticed that one of the things on there was about green waste and food scrap and wet waste composting. Some of these things could be tied together, some of these issues could be worked together Bye. There would be a place for the composting and for people to see things in action happening, and also for the school children at the local school to learn about the importance of growing food and localizing our food sources and understanding where the food really comes from. Thank you. |
| 03:35:33.64 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. Okay, let's bring it back up. |
| 03:35:36.74 | Unknown | I think we've heard that. |
| 03:35:37.99 | Herb Weiner | Okay, good. |
| 03:35:39.04 | Unknown | Go ahead, Paul. |
| 03:35:39.31 | Herb Weiner | FOOTBALL. |
| 03:35:41.30 | Unknown | Good evening, council members. Good evening council members and Mr. Mayor my name is Paul Dines I'm a licensed mariner on the waterfront. I first moved to Sausalito in 1981 and I've been working on the waterfront since that time. |
| 03:35:52.05 | Unknown | uh, |
| 03:35:55.17 | Unknown | I've been appointed to the WAM committee. I'm a tenant at Schudemacher Harbor. I'm a tenant at Clipper Marina. I'm a tenant at... Whitco Company. And I think that covers all the basics right there. I think you just covered the waterfront. That's my gig. I'm a bit of an anachronism. I'm an old-fashioned waterman. That's how I make my living. I've been pleased to work with the mayor's committee for the America's Cup, and, of course, that's something that has created a lot of excitement throughout the state, from the capital to San Diego and right here to our little town. and we all as a community from the t-shirt shops and restaurants and delis, the maritime support services, the Chandleries, the machine shops, the engineers, electricians, licensed mariners, young people coming up in the industry, Navy cadets all benefit from this industry in our town and of course so does the town itself in terms of revenue and tax benefits. It is imperative for our industry and all of the people who benefit from it to have access and it is an absolute cry and shame to look at the city properties which could in fact be cash flow positive for the city. That the city has an opportunity to generate revenue, not through taxes or fees, but just through smart management of its assets. |
| 03:36:07.66 | Herb Weiner | So, |
| 03:36:08.00 | Adam Politzer | Thank you. |
| 03:36:08.03 | Herb Weiner | Right. Oh. I've been... |
| 03:36:11.61 | Unknown | That's not it. |
| 03:37:17.52 | Unknown | And we have submitted a proposal to the city in fact regarding the Casa Marina project it was in December of 2009 and because it has not been a priority we have not had an opportunity to have that proposal fully vetted and we are anxious for that opportunity and we would feel that timing is imperative for for that opportunity to be realized and it's an opportunity that does not just benefit a small segment of the society here in town. It has a very broad benefit from the municipal government right on down through every business in town. And I believe that every business in town in this economy is looking for those benefits, anxious for them, hungry for them, and it would be nothing short of negligent for the city to own property and allow it to remain derelict and in fact represent a hazard. And it would be with all of those things in mind that I would just so strongly encourage you to address the matter of CAS Marina, which is currently way, way, way down there on the list. And that is, in fact, the imperative that I bring to you tonight, and I ask you to recognize that imperative and the benefit for all of your constituents, as well as the economy. and would welcome an opportunity to have staff available to receive those qualified proposals, to vet them thoroughly, to familiarize itself with the benefits. And I myself am in a position with working capital to come to the City Council with no obligation or risk to the council and initiate such a proposal. I'd really appreciate an opportunity. I know everybody I work with would too. Thank you very much. |
| 03:39:03.77 | Herb Weiner | Thank you, Paul. Jeff? |
| 03:39:08.81 | Stan Behr | Thank you. |
| 03:39:13.15 | Jeff Shiroz | Jeff Shiroz, 100 Spinnaker Drive, Sausalito. I just want to hit three subjects tonight. One, of course, which we talked about a couple weeks ago, which is bathrooms. I know we're on the list here, but definitely want to make sure we don't lose focus on how this porta-potties in town for the next 15 years. We did that to the Public Safety Building. Thankfully, we have that done now, but definitely want to make sure we're not going to have that for 15 years here. Definitely above the line for that one. Moving along. Moving along. Hopefully moving along in that one. Also want to touch on AC34 as far as America's Cup. Make sure we utilize that opportunity. It's definitely a big thing for the community here. Whether we can see the race or not, let's utilize the people coming into town, the enthusiasm around it, the youth sailing possibilities. There's so many different avenues we can do, but we definitely need support for the America's Cut part from staff, from council, to make sure we keep moving forward and really take that opportunity that's really set in front of us, because we're going to be on the world stage. It's not something for just 2013 we're looking at. Similar to the Tour of California, we're going to see it for years to come. We're going to see that growth of people coming from different parts of the world to Sausalito because he saw it on TV. And that's what we want here. They're going to hear about it worldwide. Let's utilize that opportunity and really celebrate the waterfront. Another thing, friendship. Definitely know that's a touchy, touchy subject. We've got to tackle it one way or another. Let's utilize the opportunity AC 34 and America's Cup to really look at marineship. What can we do to it? What can we utilize down there? There's definitely so much opportunity in landmass. It's also just a small community. We need to utilize every piece of it that we have. So let's utilize it now. And the final thought was economic development. Let's continue what we're doing here with it. Rob Eidler has done a great thing for us. We're pushing a lot of things forward. The business community, it's a sensitive time for a lot of the businesses here in town. And we really got to push them forward. We have so many independent, great places, whether it be retail or restaurant. And another couple bad storms, like the one we just had, a couple bad days, we're going to push a few more out of business. And it's rough out there, I can tell you. I'm on the front lines every day. And with my fellow colleagues, it's not easy. Food prices for us are going through the roof. Gas prices are affecting all of our costs. We don't need to lose anyone else. We have a store in Caledonia going out of business now. For many, it could be obviously different reasons, whether it be real foods that is. And that's a problem, you know, who are we going to take that place again? We don't need any more empty storefronts. So let's keep moving forward on economic progress. It's really important. Thank you. |
| 03:41:56.95 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 03:41:56.97 | Jeff Shiroz | Thank you. |
| 03:41:57.02 | Herb Weiner | Thank you, Jeff. |
| 03:41:57.61 | Peter Van Meter | Thank you. |
| 03:41:58.51 | Herb Weiner | Okay. |
| 03:41:58.94 | Peter Van Meter | Thank you. Yeah. |
| 03:42:01.21 | Jeff Shiroz | Thank you. |
| 03:42:01.22 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 03:42:01.24 | Peter Van Meter | Thank you. |
| 03:42:01.26 | Herb Weiner | Yes, Peter. |
| 03:42:02.98 | Peter Van Meter | we've seen the list additional comment I see at least three items here that look like they could be consolidated to simplify it for you the numbers are not on but I think it's number eight is a is a park item number 21 is a park item number 23 is a park item maybe those can be lumped together to shorten your list give other opportunity other items opportunity to move up in looking at the way you've ordered these, my recommendation were you to put your marineship specific plan in position number eight. That would seem appropriate in my opinion. and then the missing downtown master plan to be added to your list, and that's okay to put that in your last position above the line if you feel so inclined. Thank you. |
| 03:42:48.51 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 03:42:49.49 | Peter Van Meter | All right, thank you, Peter. |
| 03:42:51.39 | Herb Weiner | I understand. |
| 03:42:52.79 | Stan Behr | stand |
| 03:42:56.34 | Stan Behr | Stan Behr, 1713 Bridgeway. I'm here to say what I love about Sausalito has been its inclusiveness. And I'm here for one particular project, although there's a couple, including Heather's project over there at CAAS that I'm also supportive of. but I'm also a gardener. I'm a sailor too sometimes, and that's why I support that. |
| 03:43:22.56 | Peter Van Meter | No. |
| 03:43:24.30 | Stan Behr | But what I want to say that not long. As I... The voting up there, the waiting, mystifies me a little bit. I understand 3-2 votes, but one of the things that I've always observed about Sausalito is that when a community organization comes to the city and offers to improve, in some fashion, a city property, There has been a lot of willingness to look at that very seriously. and not to put that organization off and not in a lot of cases to even weighted. it tends to come on, at least I've in my observation noticed that a few times, into the priority system without actually being on a list. And what I would suggest here is I think these gardeners have a good idea. And I think that maybe the three very low votes up there, It may be that there's been a miscommunication or there's been something else that has impacted the opinions about this garden. And the thing that would really worry me about this is if an individual or very few individuals are out there putting backdoor inputs into this decision making process that the city, that the organizations don't have an opportunity to respond to, and I will say the word as I have to all of you, which is this ordinance 1128. which . is part of the discussion on these community gardens, and they know it, and I know it, and all of you know it. And I... I'm not a I'm, Don't do land use law. but that this that this garden that is being proposed is somehow not a parks and recreation activity. is frankly on its face laughable. That's all I have to say. Thank you. Thank you. |
| 03:45:38.56 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 03:45:38.73 | Stan Behr | Thank you. |
| 03:45:38.88 | Herb Weiner | Thank you, Stan. |
| 03:45:41.46 | Unknown | Good evening. My name is Mark Melio. I'm the director of Sailing Education Adventures, and I just wanted to – we're a 25-year-old nonprofit that has been providing sailing access on a community level to youth and adults, and we're based at Clipper Harbor 4. And I would like to support the Cass Skidley project as a fantastic unifying force to bring a lot of the community access boating activities in Sausalito together. Over 60% of our students are coming over to us from San Francisco, spending their money in Sausalito, and coming back over and over and over again to join our sailing activities and communities. And to be able to do that with a larger community here in Sausalito, supporting good use of your land in a way that, as far as I understand, so far all the proposals have been self-sustaining to a great degree with limited city input, I think is a great idea. And to back up what Paul said earlier, that not going after the taxes but going after initiatives that come from the grassroots that are self-sustaining is very, very important to support those kinds of businesses and nonprofit activities. So I would like to support CASCIDLE to be on your list. |
| 03:45:42.30 | Stan Behr | I'm going to... |
| 03:45:42.69 | Herb Weiner | Bye. |
| 03:45:43.05 | Stan Behr | Thank you. |
| 03:47:02.41 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. Anybody else? OK, let's bring it back up here. |
| 03:47:10.66 | Linda Pfeifer | Mr. Mayor? |
| 03:47:10.95 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 03:47:10.98 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 03:47:11.62 | Glaziella Tribussi | Thank you. |
| 03:47:12.40 | Jonathan Leone | Can I just say I did mine with 25 versus 20. So I would rather have we have 25 as our threshold number. |
| 03:47:13.28 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 03:47:20.28 | Jonathan Leone | his city can't do 25. Thank you. |
| 03:47:22.42 | Jonathan Leone | Oh, he's going to do 25. |
| 03:47:22.47 | Jonathan Leone | So he's going to do that. Thank you. . |
| 03:47:24.14 | Jonathan Leone | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 03:47:24.21 | Jonathan Leone | . THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 03:47:27.20 | Carolyn Ford | I think it must depend on the project, whether or not we can do 20 or 25. |
| 03:47:29.71 | Jonathan Leone | for the night. |
| 03:47:30.03 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 03:47:30.05 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 03:47:30.07 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 03:47:30.30 | Jonathan Leone | you |
| 03:47:30.34 | Linda Pfeifer | you 20 or 25. |
| 03:47:32.34 | Herb Weiner | All right, well, let's see if we can even get up to 20. |
| 03:47:33.29 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 03:47:33.58 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah. Mr. Mayor, may I comment too? So I want to thank everyone who spoke tonight and provided a lot more kind of context around some of these. I would agree with I was swayed by the input regarding Cass Marina and with that context would certainly... |
| 03:47:36.77 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 03:47:36.78 | Unknown | I'm not going to be here. |
| 03:47:37.17 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 03:47:37.24 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:47:38.33 | Herb Weiner | Yeah. |
| 03:48:01.44 | Linda Pfeifer | increase my score, which was rather low because I think my interpretation of what that was was very different than what it is. But at the same time, I have to say that what makes me very nervous when I look at that top 25 is that The pension reform issue is right on the cusp there, and I think that is absolutely critical to be above the line. And I don't want to do anything that is going to jeopardize the pension piece dropping below the line, because that is our financial stability in the future for the town and all the residents. And my other comment has to do with the parks. We heard a recommendation to collapse all the topics related to parks into one. We discussed this actually at the last council meeting. And, um, I am fine, I personally understand collapsing. the park topics except for item 23, which is the Dunphy Park Master Plan. I think that is key. It's very, very important. A lot of people have been working on that for years. The Friends of Dunphy Park, you know, I mean, it goes back decades, and I think they deserve to have, you know, their workshop. And I don't think that in terms of staff time, we're looking at a lot of staff time with that. So that's my comment. |
| 03:49:46.97 | Herb Weiner | Okay, thank you. Let's get it on. Thank you. |
| 03:49:50.53 | Jonathan Leone | So Thank you. |
| 03:49:51.23 | Jonathan Leone | but it looks like you know it looks like 25 stops in pension where you got it Debbie |
| 03:49:51.28 | Jonathan Leone | food. |
| 03:49:56.54 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 03:49:56.91 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. and there were I can only, it looks to me like they were, Folks came in about one, two, three. |
| 03:50:04.64 | Mike Kelly | Can I speak to this pension thing for a moment? Yeah. There isn't anything more to do on pensions at the moment. |
| 03:50:10.68 | Jonathan Leone | Well, we're going to have more to do, but it's not reforming the state system. Do we want to go there? |
| 03:50:14.34 | Mike Kelly | . |
| 03:50:14.50 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:50:14.53 | Jonathan Leone | I'm like, |
| 03:50:14.75 | Unknown | Okay. |
| 03:50:14.97 | Jonathan Leone | There's a lot of people. |
| 03:50:15.27 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 03:50:15.29 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 03:50:15.88 | Mike Kelly | Yeah, I mean, we've taken pretty much all the steps that we can take. We can take a few more, but they're in the ordinary course of business. And frankly, until there's a change at CalPERS, we're pretty much stuck. So I don't know what else that, I mean, I hate to put something in, that's not going to take anybody's time because there's nothing to do. |
| 03:50:35.22 | Jonathan Leone | But we're going to be pursuing... |
| 03:50:35.29 | Mike Kelly | But we're at |
| 03:50:37.89 | Jonathan Leone | to put funds dependent potential, hopefully, we'll have the options of refinancing some of these obligations. But also, reforming the pension system is not something. So we don't have to be so fortunate. |
| 03:50:48.16 | Jonathan Leone | So, something that we can know is you I'm going to go. |
| 03:50:49.93 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 03:50:49.95 | Jonathan Leone | Bye. |
| 03:50:50.00 | Carolyn Ford | All right. |
| 03:50:50.20 | Jonathan Leone | So, |
| 03:50:50.69 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. Thank you. Agreed, but we definitely need, I mean, we can't do it on our own. But we definitely need to consider it in any sort of financing decisions that we make. And we need a five-year plan to see what our liabilities are. |
| 03:51:05.56 | Mike Kelly | So we have a five-year plan. We have a five-year plan. We don't, we do. I study it. I give it out to all the people who come to the pension meeting. We are the best prepared. |
| 03:51:09.04 | Carolyn Ford | We don't, we do not. |
| 03:51:16.21 | Mike Kelly | jurisdiction in the entire county of Marin. |
| 03:51:19.19 | Unknown | But that's saying very, very, very little because no one else has done anything. Exactly. |
| 03:51:19.25 | Mike Kelly | But that's- |
| 03:51:23.09 | Mike Kelly | Bye. |
| 03:51:23.14 | Linda Pfeifer | has done anything. Exactly. I don't look at Marin County as the role model for pension reform because we are not ahead of the game on that. |
| 03:51:24.98 | Mike Kelly | I don't look as Bye. |
| 03:51:26.49 | Jonathan Leone | in Canada. |
| 03:51:27.01 | Unknown | 20 years. |
| 03:51:27.55 | Jonathan Leone | as the role model |
| 03:51:29.56 | Mike Kelly | All right. |
| 03:51:29.57 | Unknown | I'm not sure. |
| 03:51:29.64 | Jonathan Leone | Looking at it. |
| 03:51:30.03 | Mike Kelly | because we are not ahead of the game on that. You're not facing that. And I am. It's sad to see something like the marinship specific plan go below the line when pensions. Can I make a suggestion? |
| 03:51:32.66 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 03:51:33.47 | Linda Pfeifer | And I am. |
| 03:51:41.96 | Jonathan Leone | No. Thank you. |
| 03:51:42.30 | Mike Kelly | you |
| 03:51:42.35 | Jonathan Leone | So here's my suggestion. Ahem. that So this is just a suggestion. You can't just keep enlarging this. There's some projects on here we just don't have money to fund, no matter where you put it on the above or below the line. But what about the. |
| 03:51:59.19 | Louis Shireman | But what about the... |
| 03:52:00.96 | Jonathan Leone | Well, that's a good example, but I think it's one of those that you could include as a priority, but start accumulating the funds over time to fund that, which we don't have a half million dollars lying around to do a proper revision of the marinship. |
| 03:52:02.21 | Adam Politzer | I think it's one of those. |
| 03:52:16.35 | Jonathan Leone | Right. |
| 03:52:16.55 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 03:52:16.66 | Jonathan Leone | The general plan would be |
| 03:52:16.76 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 03:52:18.76 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 03:52:18.78 | Carolyn Ford | The general plan would be a million dollars. So we need to start planning ahead for those things. |
| 03:52:18.80 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. So we need to start planning ahead for those things in our capital budget. But that's something we should be accruing probably throughout the whole cycle. Once you finish one, start accruing it for over ten years so you can fund the next time it's due. Well, it does have to be. |
| 03:52:39.05 | Herb Weiner | Yeah. |
| 03:52:40.25 | Linda Pfeifer | let's move castor |
| 03:52:42.47 | Jonathan Leone | Well so we have you have number just one second so number 20 crosses is that the City Hall |
| 03:52:43.81 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah. |
| 03:52:44.03 | Unknown | Yeah. Bye. |
| 03:52:45.26 | Unknown | Just one second. Thank you. |
| 03:52:51.70 | Jonathan Leone | basically ADA and bathroom project which we have been accruing funds to do. Um, And number 25 is the pension. So it's like, which do you want to bump down off of to make room for others if that's the choice? So just a... |
| 03:53:08.87 | Mike Kelly | Well, how about the citywide historic context statement? I mean, that doesn't rise to the level of |
| 03:53:12.93 | Jonathan Leone | Well, so you need to do that to get the credit, whatever that. |
| 03:53:19.68 | Mike Kelly | then, |
| 03:53:20.76 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:53:22.96 | Jonathan Leone | certified local government qualification. You have to have a citywide historic context. |
| 03:53:23.01 | Unknown | certified |
| 03:53:27.01 | Carolyn Ford | Well, we are almost finished with the historic preservation regulations, right? No. No? |
| 03:53:33.59 | Jonathan Leone | No, we just have the, those are just the guidelines, the regulations are putting them into the code. |
| 03:53:34.08 | Carolyn Ford | No, we just have the... Oh. Oh, that's right. Okay, sorry. And that's the complicated. |
| 03:53:40.90 | Jonathan Leone | And that's the complicated part. |
| 03:53:42.43 | Carolyn Ford | Yeah. Thank you. |
| 03:53:42.83 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. So here's the suggestion. So there were four largely supported items, and I think they have some support in the community. There mentioned a specific plan, community garden, three-hour parking, and Cass Marina charter boat. That's one way you can sort of or just Cass Marina and how you deal with that. Let me just put those four out there as those are the four we heard from tonight by and |
| 03:54:01.58 | Mike Kelly | Let me just address this. |
| 03:54:06.26 | Mike Kelly | By large. But let me just, can I say something about the community garden? Sure. Because I was at the OMED committee meeting when we gave them the news. There is 1128 and it is a problem, okay? Whether we think it's an absurd thing or not, it is a problem. |
| 03:54:08.89 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 03:54:16.89 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:54:21.55 | Mike Kelly | and and the only way to it so there's two two ways to address it ask the community garden folks to find another location and and bring that location back to us, or maybe several. Because I'm off of the community garden. I have nothing against community garden. But 1128 is a problem and it's going to probably engender a lawsuit and then a vote. And those are both very expensive things. They're disruptive to the community. They don't – they get in the way of trying to do some of the other things we need to that, |
| 03:54:53.36 | Jonathan Leone | Was that the city attorney's interpretation of the way |
| 03:54:58.00 | Herb Weiner | She's going to be challenged. |
| 03:54:58.06 | Jonathan Leone | She's going to be |
| 03:54:58.47 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 03:54:58.49 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 03:54:59.13 | Mike Kelly | No, it's not the city attorney. I haven't talked to the city attorney about it. But I've talked to people who are against it, being an |
| 03:55:03.16 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 03:55:03.67 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 03:55:06.60 | Linda Pfeifer | I would say that 11-20-22, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, it's late. It's almost 11-20-22 now. 11-20. We're close on the time. |
| 03:55:10.13 | Mike Kelly | I'm sorry. Thank you. |
| 03:55:13.20 | Unknown | 11, 28. 11? You're close on your time. |
| 03:55:18.87 | Linda Pfeifer | 1128 influenced my ranking of the community garden. I think it is opening up a big, you know, issue here. And I think it's frankly a valid concern. And I think that we do need to, you know, provide guidance to the community garden. I mean, we all support the concept of a community garden. The challenge is where... We need to look at other sites. We need to look at other sites, and that is, you know, it... |
| 03:55:29.13 | Susan Shea | issue here. |
| 03:55:30.23 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:55:44.66 | Carolyn Ford | We need to look at other sites. |
| 03:55:50.97 | Carolyn Ford | My opinion. I agree. I ranked it high because I fully support it. I've seen the benefits of it even in a nursing home back in Kansas where my parents are. But 1128 is an issue and we need to find another site. It's that simple, I believe. |
| 03:56:11.30 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 03:56:11.91 | Jonathan Leone | Where's the other side? Thank you. |
| 03:56:14.44 | Jonathan Leone | Yeah. So, Thank you. |
| 03:56:18.03 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 03:56:19.57 | Jonathan Leone | Go ahead. Anyway, so there's... |
| 03:56:19.82 | Linda Pfeifer | Anyway. |
| 03:56:21.86 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. Thank you. Folks, Mitch. |
| 03:56:24.26 | Herb Weiner | that I get her speaking. |
| 03:56:25.85 | Jonathan Leone | you |
| 03:56:26.54 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 03:56:26.57 | Jonathan Leone | Robin. |
| 03:56:26.96 | Herb Weiner | You just, you gotta come up right. Oh, 11. |
| 03:56:27.64 | Jonathan Leone | Check them out, Brian. Oh, 1128 is, when was that put in place, Mary? So 1128. |
| 03:56:31.97 | Herb Weiner | I'm trying to get it. |
| 03:56:32.38 | Carolyn Ford | 15 years. |
| 03:56:33.09 | Linda Pfeifer | I think it was 19 years ago. |
| 03:56:33.16 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 03:56:33.20 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 03:56:33.22 | Carolyn Ford | Yeah. Thank you. |
| 03:56:34.12 | Linda Pfeifer | Good night. |
| 03:56:34.12 | Herb Weiner | Good night. |
| 03:56:34.67 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 03:56:35.69 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 03:56:35.70 | Linda Pfeifer | Come on, hurry. |
| 03:56:35.94 | Herb Weiner | Come on, let's try to keep some order or else we'll be here till 2. And I won't be here. |
| 03:56:42.00 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 03:56:42.01 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 03:56:42.45 | Herb Weiner | Do you want to explain what it is? |
| 03:56:43.33 | Mary Wagner | Do you want to explain what it is? Sure. Ordinance number 1128 was adopted by the council in reaction to a citizen initiative in lieu of going on a vote. It changed the general plan with respect to uses at MLK and at the city-owned parking lots, and it imposed certain restrictions on the use of those properties and the ability of the city to sell it or not. |
| 03:56:45.56 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 03:57:04.78 | Carolyn Ford | Yeah. |
| 03:57:10.50 | Carolyn Ford | and the downtown parks. |
| 03:57:12.03 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 03:57:12.81 | Carolyn Ford | you |
| 03:57:12.88 | Mary Wagner | Yeah, Vina Del Mar. And Gabe Wilson. |
| 03:57:12.90 | Carolyn Ford | Yeah. |
| 03:57:13.57 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:57:13.59 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 03:57:13.66 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:57:13.67 | Carolyn Ford | I'm sorry. |
| 03:57:13.89 | Unknown | you |
| 03:57:14.13 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 03:57:14.18 | Unknown | . Thank you. |
| 03:57:15.11 | Linda Pfeifer | Bye. |
| 03:57:15.12 | Unknown | and |
| 03:57:15.80 | Carolyn Ford | Yeah. |
| 03:57:15.97 | Unknown | And Jake Rilson. |
| 03:57:17.18 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 03:57:17.20 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:57:17.43 | Mary Wagner | In the context of what you're talking about tonight, it affects MLK. I'm not trying to be all inclusive in what it affects, but it imposes restrictions on the uses at MLK. |
| 03:57:20.64 | Unknown | Right. |
| 03:57:28.12 | Herb Weiner | Okay. you All right, let's try to get some assemblance of where we're going. |
| 03:57:31.83 | Carolyn Ford | All right, let's... |
| 03:57:36.35 | Carolyn Ford | Okay, so we could each take a few minutes and |
| 03:57:40.64 | Herb Weiner | So, I don't know. |
| 03:57:41.06 | Stan Behr | Thank you. |
| 03:57:41.43 | Carolyn Ford | Well, do we all agree on what's above the line? Probably not. Oh, yeah. |
| 03:57:47.84 | Mike Kelly | So I'm sure there is. |
| 03:57:48.03 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 03:57:48.18 | Carolyn Ford | Bye. |
| 03:57:48.20 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 03:57:48.30 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 03:57:48.32 | Linda Pfeifer | Bye. |
| 03:57:48.43 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 03:57:48.47 | Linda Pfeifer | That's a good question. That's a good place to start. |
| 03:57:48.94 | Carolyn Ford | you |
| 03:57:48.97 | Mike Kelly | That's a good place to start. But maybe there's some things that we could do. I think MLK, I mean, friendship needs to be above the line. |
| 03:57:57.60 | Jonathan Leone | Yeah, so the question is whether you move. Let's start at this, to sort of break this down to pieces so we can swallow the meal, so to speak. Is there anything that's currently below the line? Hold on. |
| 03:58:11.01 | Mike Kelly | Hold on. Push that up a minute, Debbie, would you? Thank you. Yeah. |
| 03:58:14.84 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. that in the you know that's in the reasonable proximity of the line besides the four items that were just brought up through public comment that people are held that let's say very convinced should be above the line besides the four we just heard |
| 03:58:19.84 | Unknown | Hallelujah. |
| 03:58:20.36 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 03:58:30.03 | Carolyn Ford | Well, I think that firehouse number two, we certainly need to make some sort of decision on that |
| 03:58:37.02 | Jonathan Leone | I was trying to get to some closer proximity of the, towards where the line is. So if there's anything like the next five, because then we can just start from above the line. |
| 03:58:37.71 | Carolyn Ford | on closer Thank you. |
| 03:58:45.52 | Jonathan Leone | and consider taking some off above the line to make room for others. |
| 03:58:48.31 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:58:48.32 | Carolyn Ford | to make it. |
| 03:58:51.11 | Jonathan Leone | But that one was pretty far down. |
| 03:58:52.59 | Carolyn Ford | It is. I withdraw that. Well, what other than the marine ship specific plan, which I don't agree should be above the line because we don't have the money to fund a 500,000 study study. |
| 03:59:06.90 | Herb Weiner | But in 10 years, it'll be double. |
| 03:59:07.41 | Carolyn Ford | Yeah. |
| 03:59:11.44 | Jonathan Leone | OK, so if there's none that leap out below the line that people are very concerned should be above, except for these four that people have spoken to tonight, |
| 03:59:21.97 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. I was going to say I don't agree with the four going above. I'm not saying. |
| 03:59:28.69 | Jonathan Leone | I'm not saying. I'm just saying let's try to take it in pieces so it can keep moving. So. Except for Cass. |
| 03:59:31.22 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 03:59:31.25 | Unknown | Right. |
| 03:59:31.51 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 03:59:33.58 | Linda Pfeifer | Except for Cass. |
| 03:59:36.59 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. Okay, so. in my mind above the line of the 25 that are currently above the line and this is what I said before with the difference between a central waterfront and a Dunphy Park plan. I think the Dunphy Park plan is a duplicative process. If you do it now and you do it correctly, you're going to have to redo it, hopefully, when you have a |
| 03:59:56.89 | Unknown | Okay. |
| 03:59:57.55 | Jonathan Leone | ideally, Um, potentially a larger site to deal with. And nor do we have the money to fund it, nor do we have the money to actually do the improvements. I understand people's passion about this particular subject, but it is I don't think we have the money or we have the ability to do it a fair justice in its current fluctuation of that whole section of the central waterfront. That's what I was proposing with the central waterfront plan. But I'm willing to let that come down off the priority list and have one of these come up and take its place. Let me make a suggestion. |
| 04:00:31.21 | Mike Kelly | Let me make a suggestion here. Number, I don't know what number it is from the list up there, but about 10 down is financial planning, including a five-year planning strategy to stabilize revenues. Let's put the pension studies underneath that because it's part and parcel of the financial program. And then we wrapped it together. It's going to get studied under there anyway. That's exactly where it's going to go. And it encompasses the same scope. |
| 04:01:01.81 | Carolyn Ford | I think pensions are you I think that planning is important enough to keep it separate it's going to be It is an issue right now and it's going to continue to be an issue and I think we should um, in front of us as an issue. |
| 04:01:19.61 | Mike Kelly | Yeah, but it's not going to consume staff time because there's not much to do. It is a financial planning thing. It's a refinancing issue if we finance the side fund, which is the biggest thing we can probably do and that depends on rates dropping. |
| 04:01:31.13 | Carolyn Ford | Yeah. |
| 04:01:31.45 | Linda Pfeifer | you |
| 04:01:31.52 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 04:01:31.54 | Linda Pfeifer | So... |
| 04:01:31.57 | Mike Kelly | So... And so it's going to fall under the finance committee and everything else. |
| 04:01:34.83 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah, I just disagree that there's... Well, if I could finish. If I could finish. I just believe that there is something we can do. I think other towns have taken action. I don't think we've even looked at that. I couldn't disagree anymore. I don't believe that we have taken a look at what other towns have done. And also, Mike, you know, a case study of the law out there, a meta-analysis of the law. |
| 04:01:37.11 | Mike Kelly | What a little crazy place. |
| 04:01:38.03 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:01:38.41 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 04:01:38.42 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:01:38.49 | Mike Kelly | Yes. |
| 04:01:38.96 | Unknown | you |
| 04:01:39.13 | Mike Kelly | right? |
| 04:01:39.59 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:01:39.60 | Mike Kelly | If I get finished, |
| 04:01:40.72 | Unknown | you |
| 04:01:40.97 | Mike Kelly | I... |
| 04:01:46.29 | Unknown | I don't think we've even |
| 04:01:48.70 | Carolyn Ford | I don't think I don't. I couldn't disagree with you more. We've missed it at all. |
| 04:01:52.61 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:02:03.09 | Linda Pfeifer | There are new judgments you know, evolving every month on this topic. Look what Governor Brown just did with, you know, his legislation and all of the trickle-down impacts locally. |
| 04:02:07.63 | Unknown | You know. |
| 04:02:08.04 | Mike Kelly | There are no significant changes. Yeah. |
| 04:02:14.86 | Mike Kelly | He hasn't done anything to pensions. Nobody wants it. |
| 04:02:17.34 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 04:02:17.35 | Carolyn Ford | We could argue pensions all night, so I think we ought to leave that where it is. |
| 04:02:20.26 | Mike Kelly | him. So I think we Well, I certainly don't want to spend the city's money on lawyers to study pension reform. That's for sure. |
| 04:02:26.50 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 04:02:27.11 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 04:02:28.00 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:02:28.02 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 04:02:28.04 | Unknown | you |
| 04:02:28.10 | Herb Weiner | I don't know. So it's just not something we can control. It's now quarter past 11 and we haven't even seen. Let's do it. I move that we move to the board. Is there a support to move? |
| 04:02:29.91 | Mike Kelly | That's it. |
| 04:02:32.84 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:02:32.86 | Jonathan Leone | Is there a support to move, let's forget how many are above where the line sits, to move the friendship-specific plan, community garden, three-hour parking, or Cass Marina above the line just for tonight? For now. |
| 04:02:49.81 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 04:02:49.84 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 04:02:49.85 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 04:02:49.87 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 04:02:49.99 | Carolyn Ford | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 04:02:50.02 | Herb Weiner | No. |
| 04:02:51.41 | Carolyn Ford | You know, I have to say I have a bit of an issue with the three-hour parking. Not that I don't want people to be able to park our neighbors to be able to park downtown. But this, and I used to live on a houseboat, so I know the issue. But the city taxpayers pay for the parking and I just don't think it's right that we just say okay we're going to open it up for people who aren't residents of the city I think it's |
| 04:03:32.62 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 04:03:36.45 | Mike Kelly | trying to get them to shop there and tell you. |
| 04:03:38.57 | Mark Rushford | Well, |
| 04:03:38.76 | Carolyn Ford | I know, but we have no statistics on this. We don't know how many more people this would draw downtown. We have nothing that would tell us. Mr. Julie? |
| 04:03:38.91 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. Yeah. |
| 04:03:48.04 | Mike Kelly | Tell us. If you drew any of them, they would spend money. |
| 04:03:51.21 | Carolyn Ford | Well, yeah, but is that worth, I mean the taxpayers are paying |
| 04:03:51.23 | Mike Kelly | of. What? Thank you. Well, how are the textures made from this? |
| 04:03:58.86 | Carolyn Ford | The residence. Property taxes. Property taxes. |
| 04:03:59.51 | Mike Kelly | Property taxes. Hey, what do they pay? |
| 04:04:04.66 | Carolyn Ford | But the city who the taxpayers support pays for our parking system. It's as simple as that. |
| 04:04:10.74 | Linda Pfeifer | And not only that, if I may, no, I need to say something. Mr. Mayor, I'd like to add to it. |
| 04:04:11.83 | Carolyn Ford | Yeah. |
| 04:04:12.09 | Herb Weiner | If I may, no, I need to say something. Well, let's end this now. Okay, what we're going to do is we're going to either vote on it. I don't want to go back and forth. Let's vote on it, and that's it. |
| 04:04:17.35 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah. |
| 04:04:24.17 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. Thank you. So I'll make a motion for now to put the line to include it up to pensions and then add these four above the line. Go for it. |
| 04:04:35.17 | Herb Weiner | you Secondary. |
| 04:04:35.41 | Jonathan Leone | Okay. |
| 04:04:36.94 | Herb Weiner | All in favor? Aye. Aye. Opposed? |
| 04:04:38.23 | Jonathan Leone | . |
| 04:04:38.29 | Linda Pfeifer | . |
| 04:04:38.38 | Jonathan Leone | Bye. |
| 04:04:39.73 | Jonathan Leone | Oh, yeah. |
| 04:04:39.97 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:04:40.03 | Jonathan Leone | Pose. |
| 04:04:40.59 | Unknown | you |
| 04:04:40.62 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 04:04:40.66 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:04:41.33 | Linda Pfeifer | No. Opposed. Okay. No. And that's going to be a... Let's move on to the next one. Excuse me. Well, our names will be recorded as the no vote, right? It's not going to be a... |
| 04:04:41.74 | Herb Weiner | Opposed. Okay, okay. And that's going to be a excuse. |
| 04:04:50.29 | Herb Weiner | It is, it is, so don't get bent out of shape about that. |
| 04:04:51.22 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 04:04:51.31 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 04:04:51.35 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:04:51.37 | Linda Pfeifer | It is. It was a good time. |
| 04:04:54.75 | Carolyn Ford | Let's go. question. |
| 04:04:55.94 | Herb Weiner | Okay, let's move. |
| 04:04:58.73 | Carolyn Ford | All right, so now we have 29 items. |
| 04:05:01.08 | Jonathan Leone | At 29 for now, but the reality is... We can break it down. |
| 04:05:04.72 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 04:05:04.74 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 04:05:04.75 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 04:05:05.01 | Jonathan Leone | we'll have a this will come back through the budget process and some of these require funding and different depart right now none of these are funded right because they're not in the budget well some are funded some are some are yeah but some also don't have the in-house personnel assigned to them so they would have to come back with the |
| 04:05:13.83 | Mike Kelly | Right. Well, some are for a design. |
| 04:05:17.38 | Jonathan Leone | Bye. |
| 04:05:17.39 | Mike Kelly | Yeah. |
| 04:05:18.95 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:05:19.00 | Mike Kelly | That was fun. |
| 04:05:19.42 | Unknown | So, |
| 04:05:20.77 | Mike Kelly | So they... |
| 04:05:21.27 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:05:23.23 | Jonathan Leone | additional hours or overtime or what have you. And so this will come back again. So folks, if you... the Thank you. |
| 04:05:31.26 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 04:05:31.37 | Jonathan Leone | We're going to be. |
| 04:05:31.38 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 04:05:31.40 | Carolyn Ford | Community Garden. |
| 04:05:32.73 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 04:05:32.77 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 04:05:32.78 | Herb Weiner | Community Garden. |
| 04:05:33.80 | Jonathan Leone | Three-hour parking in Cast Marina slash charter boat. |
| 04:05:35.03 | Herb Weiner | We asked Marina, last charter. |
| 04:05:38.08 | Carolyn Ford | Yes. |
| 04:05:38.37 | Jonathan Leone | Casparino. Casparino. |
| 04:05:38.77 | Herb Weiner | I'm sorry enough. |
| 04:05:41.02 | Jonathan Leone | Yes, you don't know. |
| 04:05:43.48 | Herb Weiner | Yeah, I mean, there's... Cats marinas should really... You know what America's about....what America's come. I mean, are you... |
| 04:05:43.52 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. the Americans. Well, let's leave it separate for now, and hopefully it could be paid for by that. This is the monocross. |
| 04:05:50.91 | Herb Weiner | Okay. Yes. |
| 04:05:53.98 | Linda Pfeifer | Most of the money. you |
| 04:05:55.77 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 04:05:55.78 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 04:05:55.82 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. Paul's already bought it. |
| 04:05:58.53 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah. |
| 04:05:58.96 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 04:05:59.51 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah. |
| 04:06:01.08 | Jonathan Leone | OK. Going, going, no, I'm just... |
| 04:06:03.92 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 04:06:04.02 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 04:06:04.04 | Mike Kelly | I would encourage anybody who's got a plan for Cashmere to come forward with it now. |
| 04:06:05.18 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 04:06:09.00 | Jonathan Leone | now. Well, he has a new plan. No, no. |
| 04:06:11.75 | Mike Kelly | the only not not to say that this that the second |
| 04:06:14.25 | Jonathan Leone | Not the same. But the- Yeah. That was a little too liberal. |
| 04:06:16.67 | Mike Kelly | Bye. |
| 04:06:16.69 | Jonathan Leone | That was a little too liberal. . |
| 04:06:18.43 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:06:18.45 | Jonathan Leone | Bye. |
| 04:06:18.67 | Jonathan Leone | but for clarification, |
| 04:06:20.94 | Unknown | . |
| 04:06:21.03 | Jonathan Leone | Can I say one thing? For clarification, all the plans we saw for Casemarino, not including yours, I don't think we've seen yours in its called for City money. |
| 04:06:31.66 | Mike Kelly | Money. |
| 04:06:32.69 | Jonathan Leone | Yeah, not your revised plan, I don't think. I haven't seen it. So we'll have to, we didn't have the funding for it, so. But I know your initial one, let's not get into the debate. No. Okay. |
| 04:06:35.24 | Mike Kelly | I haven't seen it. |
| 04:06:36.86 | Unknown | Thank you. you |
| 04:06:37.85 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 04:06:37.87 | Unknown | We didn't. But, Listen. Yeah. Thank you. |
| 04:06:45.46 | Jonathan Leone | So we'll put, yeah, we'll... |
| 04:06:45.68 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 04:06:49.26 | Jonathan Leone | All right. So just so you know, that doesn't mean that these are all going to happen, okay, because there may not be the money to actually make them happen. So as the budget process unfolds, some of these are going to be funded and some will not. |
| 04:06:57.02 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah. |
| 04:07:03.77 | Jonathan Leone | Because just so you know, right at this point, given what the departments have asked for and what Outside of all this stuff, we're going to have to not, we haven't funded all those things. |
| 04:07:14.00 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. What's the next step? |
| 04:07:18.18 | Jonathan Leone | The budget hearings will start, and then they start, Adam, the |
| 04:07:22.17 | Unknown | I'm going to give it a little. |
| 04:07:23.42 | Jonathan Leone | First meeting of June. |
| 04:07:24.33 | Mike Kelly | you Thank you. |
| 04:07:24.60 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. So these will be either funded or not funded in that budget process. We'll call them out as either being funded or not funded as supplemental requests. That's what we do with all this stuff. Whether it's ideas of ours or ideas from the community. The rankings will not, they'll be in there, but the rankings will play out in whether they're funded or not funded. |
| 04:07:46.23 | Linda Pfeifer | Mm-hm. |
| 04:07:51.04 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah. And he has to. He's one of |
| 04:07:51.75 | Jonathan Leone | And if one of the, just to clarify, sorry to talk so much, so that one of the departments might step forward and say, well, I'm willing to spearhead this under my current budget, or they may not. It depends on their budget and how many man hours they're devoting to other projects. So. All right, so we're all |
| 04:08:08.03 | Linda Pfeifer | And just a comment to the council too. I just have to get this in regarding the three hour piece. We're not only talking, remember the goal of this parking, the new automated parking is to allow the three-hour parking not only in the parking lots anymore but everywhere on the street that would take that would mean it outside well that's what I read in a staff report |
| 04:08:29.26 | Herb Weiner | Well, look, let's not, you know, we voted on it, move on. It's a no-cost question. That's it. |
| 04:08:34.63 | Jonathan Leone | That's it. All this means is all this, we're not voting to do all these things. We're voting to consider them, study them, find out how much they're going to cost. |
| 04:08:39.96 | Linda Pfeifer | I don't know. To spend staff time, and time is money. |
| 04:08:44.50 | Jonathan Leone | Right, to look into these items to see whether they're worth doing. And everyone's going to have divergent opinions of these 25. I mean, there's some that I really wanted to do that aren't in here. So that's just the reality of life. |
| 04:08:51.49 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:08:51.52 | Linda Pfeifer | something that I really wanted to do. |
| 04:08:52.65 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:08:54.32 | Herb Weiner | Okay. you Thank you. All right, Adam, we... |
| 04:09:02.69 | Herb Weiner | Yes, Chris. |
| 04:09:08.45 | Chris Gallagher | even though they've gotten above the line and they go to the budget committee and the staff say, we don't have any money to do this, is there the possibility that you start you know, putting money away to do that? Yes. Okay, I want to be on the record that, because otherwise we're going to go through this every year, especially with the marineship plan, and if we don't start |
| 04:09:18.94 | Unknown | Yes. Yeah. |
| 04:09:20.70 | Unknown | Yes. |
| 04:09:27.80 | Chris Gallagher | stashing money away, we'll never be able to study it, and it'll be millions and millions of dollars, and it'll never happen. Yeah, we're going to get a loan from the Bay Model anyway. Yeah, right. Never. |
| 04:09:34.74 | Herb Weiner | Yeah. Yeah. |
| 04:09:36.91 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 04:09:36.93 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 04:09:36.95 | Jonathan Leone | Yeah, right. Yeah. |
| 04:09:40.14 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 04:09:40.15 | Chris Gallagher | Thank you. |
| 04:09:40.29 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 04:09:40.51 | Jonathan Leone | You're going to help us apply for the grave. |
| 04:09:41.28 | Chris Gallagher | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 04:09:41.35 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 04:09:41.44 | Jonathan Leone | flight for |
| 04:09:41.89 | Chris Gallagher | the question. |
| 04:09:41.98 | Jonathan Leone | you |
| 04:09:42.03 | Herb Weiner | That's great. I'm not really there. |
| 04:09:43.19 | Jonathan Leone | I know. yeah Thank you. Yeah. |
| 04:09:47.55 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 04:09:47.61 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 04:09:47.65 | Herb Weiner | Okay. |
| 04:09:47.73 | Jonathan Leone | Ouch. |
| 04:09:47.97 | Jonathan Leone | All right. |
| 04:09:48.37 | Jonathan Leone | You could have funded all these projects, Chris. Where were you? All right, Adam. Adam, say it. I already slammed the cross. |
| 04:09:51.02 | Herb Weiner | Adam, Adam, say it. That was her. |
| 04:09:54.99 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 04:09:55.12 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 04:09:55.76 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 04:09:55.98 | Jonathan Leone | That was her. That was her. |
| 04:09:57.05 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 04:09:57.37 | Linda Pfeifer | I know. |
| 04:09:58.14 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:09:59.46 | Herb Weiner | Okay, that it? Bingo. Next. City Manager's report. |
| 04:10:00.25 | Linda Pfeifer | That it? Thank you. |
| 04:10:01.52 | Unknown | you |
| 04:10:01.69 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. Thank you. Mayor's response. Thank you. |
| 04:10:06.26 | Jonathan Leone | thank you for your participation |
| 04:10:06.68 | Linda Pfeifer | the street. |
| 04:10:07.04 | Herb Weiner | participating. Thank you. Thank you. |
| 04:10:09.03 | Linda Pfeifer | So, |
| 04:10:09.04 | Jonathan Leone | Oh, yeah. |
| 04:10:09.06 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. Very helpful. Thank you very much. |
| 04:10:10.95 | Herb Weiner | We'll be here till two if you want to come back. |
| 04:10:13.45 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 04:10:13.95 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 04:10:14.53 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:10:14.61 | Herb Weiner | What? you . Thank you. And thank you for coming, by the way. Thank you, Paul. |
| 04:10:23.35 | Adam Politzer | Now that I've lost my audience, I'm going to defer the city manager's report until the next meeting for all of your benefit. |
| 04:10:25.24 | Herb Weiner | of the city manager for your |
| 04:10:30.68 | Unknown | Oh. |
| 04:10:31.34 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 04:10:31.44 | Unknown | you Thank you. |
| 04:10:34.96 | Carolyn Ford | you Thank you. |
| 04:10:58.89 | Jonathan Leone | You don't want to talk, you just go go. Okay, good now. |
| 04:11:04.02 | Unknown | Wait, I have... |
| 04:11:05.42 | Linda Pfeifer | Wait, I have future agenda items, and I have a report for council member committee reports. Shall I just jump in? |
| 04:11:14.38 | Unknown | right here. |
| 04:11:14.94 | Linda Pfeifer | Okay. |
| 04:11:15.72 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 04:11:16.16 | Linda Pfeifer | Well, first of all, the housing element. The housing element is having its next public workshop on Saturday, July 16th from 10 a.m. to 12 p.m. in City Hall. I am, just to let you know that the city staff... gave the Housing Element Task Force a list of options that I'm frankly concerned about. The options include things that are very controversial and I don't think should be on the table at all, including residential zoning in the Marin ship and residential building zoning at MLK and the like and affordable overlay zones, et cetera. So I'm very concerned. Anyway, that was one comment. The other comment is that on two occasions now through email, I've tried to get the analysis of impediments to fair housing on the agenda and have not been successful. I have submitted as a citizen, a resident of Sausalito, my own personal input regarding the analysis of impediments or the AI. I've also drafted a letter for consideration by this council to be included. I would like it to be... on the consent calendar weighing in on the analysis of impediments and some concerns. Given Sausalito is mentioned in the analysis of impediments that it is something that we need to weigh in on. So I will submit this letter and I guess I move that this letter be included on the consent calendar at the next city council meeting. up. Well, you may not agree with this letter, but... |
| 04:13:15.75 | Jonathan Leone | I don't think she can pass it out. So I'll do a joke. You guys can't talk about it. |
| 04:13:20.91 | Linda Pfeifer | Okay, well, anyway, to submit a letter for the consent calendar, and then you get it with your packet, and you can review it, and you can weigh in and pull the item if you disagree. |
| 04:13:35.97 | Mary Wagner | you |
| 04:13:36.03 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 04:13:36.05 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:13:36.07 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. Okay. I have one. Okay, so, well, anyway, I have a motion on the floor. Do I have a second? |
| 04:13:45.75 | Unknown | I'll shoot for it. |
| 04:13:47.10 | Linda Pfeifer | I moved to, I don't know, to put this on the consent calendar. |
| 04:13:47.15 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:13:52.82 | Linda Pfeifer | To put this on the consent calendar, |
| 04:14:00.53 | Carolyn Ford | And it's just Thank you. you Thank you. |
| 04:14:06.81 | Linda Pfeifer | Mm-hmm. And... Okay. |
| 04:14:09.46 | Carolyn Ford | I think the city should weigh in. I haven't read the whole report, but I guess. |
| 04:14:11.57 | Linda Pfeifer | Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. |
| 04:14:13.93 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 04:14:14.02 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 04:14:14.07 | Carolyn Ford | should definitely weigh in. |
| 04:14:15.49 | Linda Pfeifer | Mm-hmm. |
| 04:14:15.55 | Carolyn Ford | Mm-hmm. |
| 04:14:16.01 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 04:14:16.03 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 04:14:16.15 | Unknown | working |
| 04:14:17.50 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 04:14:17.55 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:14:17.58 | Mike Kelly | Cool. |
| 04:14:18.03 | Unknown | I haven't seen it before yet. |
| 04:14:19.60 | Linda Pfeifer | Well, I sent an email on April 21st. Well, I have a copy of the email. I sent it to all of you. |
| 04:14:22.61 | Unknown | Thank you. Well, I think that's a good thing. Thank you. you |
| 04:14:26.93 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. Okay, I will resend an email to all council members with the link with the analysis of impediments. |
| 04:14:34.94 | Jonathan Leone | you Thank you. This should be directed to staff to look at this. All right. We can't talk about it in a way. Okay. |
| 04:14:38.01 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 04:14:43.19 | Linda Pfeifer | So that was the two very important report items that I had that I wanted to share. |
| 04:14:43.21 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 04:14:43.33 | Jonathan Leone | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 04:14:43.36 | Jonathan Leone | So that was |
| 04:14:43.85 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 04:14:54.20 | Linda Pfeifer | Okay. |
| 04:14:55.97 | Linda Pfeifer | Don't forget. |
| 04:14:56.56 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 04:14:56.61 | Linda Pfeifer | But... Saturday, Saturday, yes. |
| 04:14:58.48 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. Well, I had a motion, and I had a second. Do we vote? Do we not need to vote, Mary? I mean, if we have a motion and a second. Okay. Sure. Okay. I'm in favor. Okay. |
| 04:15:06.36 | Linda Pfeifer | I'm not. |
| 04:15:06.45 | Mary Wagner | Bye. |
| 04:15:07.02 | Linda Pfeifer | and a second. Sure. Okay. |
| 04:15:09.86 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 04:15:09.91 | Linda Pfeifer | I'm in favor. Thank you. |
| 04:15:10.72 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 04:15:10.74 | Linda Pfeifer | I |
| 04:15:13.55 | Herb Weiner | you |
| 04:15:13.60 | Mary Wagner | Opposed? |
| 04:15:15.70 | Linda Pfeifer | Okay, I'd like that for the record then, a roll call. |
| 04:15:18.72 | Mary Wagner | Whenever you vote, it's in the record. I don't know if there's a... That's for consent calendar. |
| 04:15:22.97 | Jonathan Leone | It's for consent calendar. And I just think you should be ‑‑ I'll make a motion to direct this to staff, have staff review this letter as well as ‑‑ I don't even know what report this is because you shouldn't be emailing stuff to all five of us anyway. It was for information. |
| 04:15:34.99 | Mary Wagner | It was for information only. May I suggest that actually if you send it to the community development director and to Lily Shinsing who's the |
| 04:15:42.93 | Linda Pfeifer | I did. I did. |
| 04:15:44.67 | Mary Wagner | you And if it's all you know one way communication from one way communication from city staff to the city council is the best way to avoid |
| 04:15:45.01 | Marina O'Neill | and it's, |
| 04:15:45.28 | Linda Pfeifer | It's... |
| 04:15:45.94 | Marina O'Neill | I know. |
| 04:15:47.81 | Linda Pfeifer | I can for information. |
| 04:15:55.88 | Mary Wagner | any kind of serial meeting issues. take care of that if All the council members would like us to do that. We'd be happy to do that. |
| 04:16:04.25 | Linda Pfeifer | We have a time sensitive issue here in that the county is weighing in on June 28th, and we need to weigh in and get something drafted and cleared up quickly. |
| 04:16:17.83 | Jonathan Leone | Bye. So I'll make the motion to both of them have staff review the board. and then just come back to whether it's the Housing Element Task Force or whatever, when put into a response. |
| 04:16:36.34 | Linda Pfeifer | I have a letter from Fairfax recommending that this be reviewed at the council level. Fairfax Council did it. Every council, Corte Madera, everyone is doing it at the council level. |
| 04:16:36.36 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 04:16:46.03 | Jonathan Leone | at the council level. I was directing you to go to staff first. But anyway, there was your motion. |
| 04:16:49.40 | Linda Pfeifer | That doesn't. |
| 04:16:50.03 | Mary Wagner | doesn't mean it won't come back to the council. |
| 04:16:50.16 | Linda Pfeifer | THE FAMILY. |
| 04:16:51.04 | Jonathan Leone | Right. |
| 04:16:51.33 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 04:16:51.48 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 04:16:51.60 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 04:16:51.61 | Jonathan Leone | Yes. |
| 04:16:51.92 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. Okay, by the way, just so you know, about Saturday, |
| 04:16:58.99 | Mary Wagner | So we have a mo... I'm sorry, Mr. Mayor. There's a motion on the floor to direct this to staff. We need a second and a vote. |
| 04:17:04.94 | Linda Pfeifer | I second just to do anything with this. |
| 04:17:10.09 | Jonathan Leone | Bye. |
| 04:17:10.11 | Mary Wagner | And I'll see you next time. |
| 04:17:10.48 | Jonathan Leone | in favor? We call the vote, please. |
| 04:17:13.18 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 04:17:13.21 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 04:17:13.38 | Herb Weiner | you |
| 04:17:13.45 | Linda Pfeifer | Um, |
| 04:17:13.67 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 04:17:13.69 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 04:17:13.77 | Jonathan Leone | Bye. |
| 04:17:13.91 | Herb Weiner | I'm afraid. |
| 04:17:15.36 | Linda Pfeifer | Bye. |
| 04:17:15.42 | Herb Weiner | Bye. Okay, okay, that goes. All right, anything else? All right, Saturday we have our block tour. And what time does that start, Adams? |
| 04:17:36.55 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 04:17:37.67 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:17:38.76 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 04:17:39.84 | Adam Politzer | We'll send out a reminder, but it's 9.30 in the morning, and it's our... It's our disaster preparedness tour that we did a few years ago where we go park to park. And so we're meeting at at the, Police and fire buildings. 930 we'll send out a confirmation on that tomorrow. |
| 04:18:03.91 | Linda Pfeifer | So we meet at Police and Fire. |
| 04:18:06.42 | Adam Politzer | Yes. |
| 04:18:09.48 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. Okay. |
| 04:18:10.52 | Herb Weiner | I move to a meeting to adjourn. |
| 04:18:13.73 | Carolyn Ford | I move we adjourn. |
| 04:18:16.75 | Herb Weiner | Good night. And to all a good night. |
Alice Merrill — Neutral: Clarified circumstances around Real Foods Market closure, stated owners are seeking a new tenant, and mentioned a community petition with 500+ signatures to demonstrate support. ▶ 📄
Mike Monsef — Neutral: Presented a proposal by local businesses to convert four parking spaces into a parklet, seeking council feedback before proceeding with the application process. ▶ 📄
Graziella Tribussi — In Favor: Expressed support for keeping Real Foods Market open, citing its importance as a source of organic food and concern for employee jobs. ▶ 📄
Sherri Lynn Campbell — In Favor: Advocated for preserving Real Foods Market, suggested using a soon-to-be-vacated building (Cameron's) as a potential new location, and criticized Whole Foods' business philosophy. ▶ 📄