| Time | Speaker | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:01.25 | Herb Weiner | At this time here, I'd like a roll call, please, of the council. |
| 00:00:09.24 | Unknown | you |
| 00:00:10.97 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 00:00:11.00 | Unknown | Council member Pfeiffer? Here. |
| 00:00:11.05 | Linda Pfeifer | Councilman. Thank you. Bye. |
| 00:00:12.03 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 00:00:12.08 | Linda Pfeifer | . |
| 00:00:12.59 | Herb Weiner | Bye. |
| 00:00:12.72 | Linda Pfeifer | Bye. |
| 00:00:13.77 | Unknown | Vice Mayor Kelly? Here. Council Member Ford? Here. Mayor Weiner? |
| 00:00:18.86 | Herb Weiner | You can call me with me. |
| 00:00:19.59 | Unknown | Council member. Councilmember Leone is not present currently. |
| 00:00:24.47 | Herb Weiner | Okay. All right, at this time here, Pledge of Allegiance. you And... Jim Irving. That's appropriate. you |
| 00:00:34.24 | Jim Irving | pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. |
| 00:00:34.44 | Herb Weiner | allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. |
| 00:00:37.97 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, |
| 00:00:43.99 | Unknown | and the |
| 00:00:44.29 | Unknown | So |
| 00:00:44.63 | Unknown | Oh. |
| 00:00:45.24 | Unknown | Rebellion Justice. |
| 00:00:47.87 | Herb Weiner | Thank you, Jim. Okay. Thank you. |
| 00:00:52.82 | Unknown | Mr. Mayor. |
| 00:00:53.26 | Herb Weiner | . |
| 00:00:54.57 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:00:54.60 | Herb Weiner | Yeah. Yes, at this time here, I'd like to have the role for the fire department district board. And maybe you could go. you |
| 00:01:08.63 | Jim Irving | She is. |
| 00:01:09.17 | Herb Weiner | Here she is. |
| 00:01:15.97 | Mary Richardson | you Thank you. you you Thank you. . Thank you. |
| 00:01:24.81 | Herb Weiner | Okay, thank you. And just a reminder that our staff is available for questions also in the front row. I guess at this time we move for approval of agenda. |
| 00:01:45.14 | Herb Weiner | Please. |
| 00:01:46.43 | Mike Kelly | Some of. |
| 00:01:48.37 | Herb Weiner | I don't know. |
| 00:01:48.71 | Mike Kelly | SECTION. |
| 00:01:48.98 | Linda Pfeifer | . |
| 00:01:49.45 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 00:01:50.21 | Herb Weiner | All in favor? Aye. Aye. |
| 00:01:51.24 | Mike Kelly | . |
| 00:01:51.29 | Linda Pfeifer | Bye. |
| 00:01:53.16 | Herb Weiner | Okay. This time here, um, Staff report by Charlie Francis. Thank you, Charlie. |
| 00:02:03.84 | Charlie Francis | Mayor, Mayor. you Thank you. Thank you. I'm not sure. Thank you. for this Southern environment that was just employed. I'm welcome, excuse me. Tonight, the agenda item before you tonight is the results of a series of readings that initiated, interestingly enough, June 2003 with a joint fire consolidation committee meeting. And for the past eight years we've been meeting as staff, as joint power authority meetings, as two by two committee meetings, and finally bringing us to a process this evening where the agenda item before you is staff is asking that we have a joint motion both the city council and the southern river fire protection district board to direct staff to submit an application to the labco for an annexation of the city's boundaries into the board in the district so one of the first questions we ask is, what is a lab book? I certainly don't need to make light of this presentation, Mr. Mayor and Mr. President. It is a very important policy decision by both governing bodies. We have had a series of questions from the public, from board members, from city council members, and from staff, and so I'm using the PowerPoint presentation to kind of remind me as I go through the presentation of what some of those questions are to lead into a project discussion. And LAPCO stands for Marin Local Agency Formation Commission. And on the PowerPoint presentation, I have a link to the website, just to bring it up. Mr. Peter Banning, the Executive Director for LabCo, has been working with staff and he's been working with the 2x2 committees throughout this process to make sure that LabCo has been involved in accomplishing what their mission statement is. Let's just review what LabCo does really quick. First of all, they're an |
| 00:03:55.44 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 00:04:11.01 | Charlie Francis | I'm from California. They're governed by a seven member board of commissions and they have four major functions, but their primary function is to improve or disapprove proposals for changes in boundaries of cities and in special districts. And they wanna make sure that when they do approve the boundaries that the level of services that are being provided are consistent, they're efficient and they're sustainable. So did I capture that right? Yes. |
| 00:04:40.97 | Unknown | If we're all in the process, we'll be walking through the last application process, please. |
| 00:04:46.31 | Charlie Francis | Thank you. |
| 00:04:51.55 | Charlie Francis | So back to the presentation. In order to, we had a report by CityGate. They looked at all the different options of providing fire services within the city and within the district. We have Mr. Dwayne Mills here from CityGate tonight. He'll also have a resource to be able to answer any questions we have at the end of the presentation. And he's walked us through the, he has a preferred alternative that we presented to both the board Thank you. resource to be able to answer any questions we have at the end of the presentation. And he's walked us through the, he has a preferred alternative that we presented to both the board and to the City Council, a formal merger with the Southern Marine Fire Protection District. So in order to do that there's LAPCO annexation documents. We have to file an application with LAPCO, we have to file a plan for service. for service. And in the agenda packets that were distributed to you last week, there was drafts of those applications of plan for service. And at the end, we're going to ask for a joint motion directing staff and working with City Gate to prepare the formal application to submit to LAPCOE. Now the application has four parts. You notice LABCO has four major functions and so their application has four parts. The first part is general information. In presenting this application to LABCO, the city is the lead agency. And what we're specifically requesting is that there be a boundary change of the district to annex the city of Sausalito. We're required on that application to submit land use and although there isn't any proposed changes in land use, we did submit our, we have included in the draft that we presented in your packets a copy of the City of Sausalito land use. It's just a required part of the application but we're not proposing to change any of the land uses. Third, RAFCO is subject to CEQA, the California Environmental Quality Act. And in the draft documents we presented to you, we listed that this application is just categorically exempt from the CEQA Act. And of course LAFCO has to review that and can agree with that finding. And finally, we listed a plan for service. |
| 00:06:27.67 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 00:06:27.70 | Unknown | . |
| 00:06:27.97 | Mike Kelly | Possibly those women. |
| 00:07:00.45 | Charlie Francis | The plan for service also has four parts, so that goes four, four, four. The first part is the description and the enumeration of services. And we listed in our application all the major services provided by the Southern Marin Fire District through our employees in the city of Sausalito. We do fire suppression. EMS stands for emergency medical services, Tasmanian hazardous material responses. MC, Marin County urban search and rescue teams. |
| 00:07:08.62 | Unknown | This is a good one. |
| 00:07:33.67 | Charlie Francis | urban search and rescue for water, we have dive teams running water, of course we do public education and fire prevention. So those are the seven major categories of services that require the Chetton District will serve to the annexed area. |
| 00:07:41.23 | Mike Kelly | Those are the same. |
| 00:07:49.66 | Charlie Francis | The second part is we have to describe the level and range of services, what the employees will look like, how many stations there will be, and the apparatus. If there would have been any changes proposed in infrastructure and there's not, third section is where we would have listed that. And finally, and the part that WAPCO is very concerned about is how all these services are going to be financed. MAPCO is required to make a finding that the district has a sustainable financial source in order to continue providing these services. you Great. So let's talk first about the level and range of services. One of the first items that was on that application was the transfer of city employees to the district. Currently there's 15 city employees, there's three captains, six paramedic firefighters, and six firefighter engineers. And those 15 would come over to the Southern Marin Fire District to augment their force of 33. the |
| 00:09:00.61 | Charlie Francis | The to group, employee groups, the Southern Fire Protection District and the Sausalito Fire Department. Over the years, as we've walked through that process that I've described since 2003 to here, a series of meetings, we've been bringing our memorandum of understanding with our labor unions into agreements so that the pay and the benefit levels are about the same. So there's no difference. We wanted to make sure that this was a seamless transition of becoming once city employees, and now some of us were in fire district employees. And then when we sat down to meet with the employees, as we're required to do under the Myers-Millias-Browning, not Myers-Millias, the negotiation. Myers-Millias. We have to meet and confer. And the employees brought up four major points that they wanted to make sure that it was a seamless transition. The first was their vacation leave payouts. So these numbers represent the amount of current vacation pay or sick pay that are as of this moment. Of course they're going to be different at June 30, 2012. But if there was going to be a murder today, then the current vacation leave payouts are $144,993. According to the Attorney General of the State of California, the city is required to pay a person their vacation leave payout. What the employees have asked is that if that balance could be transferred to the district, could we do that? And as long as the employees are in agreement that they want the equivalent hours to go over to the district. We've said that either that would happen or we would pay them directly, whatever they choose. The second is their sick leave accruals. Currently there's 8,494 accrued sick leave hours. And at today's rate of pay for the city of Sausalito, that represents over $256,000. |
| 00:10:12.34 | Mike Kelly | that are |
| 00:11:12.31 | Charlie Francis | Sick leave accruals are accounted for different under Governmental Accounting Standards Board. It's called GASB, it's the FASB for government. And those hours would be paid if certain milestones are reached. So in discussions with the district, we agreed to transfer an equivalent amount of hours over to the district and also transfer with those hours $112,614 to cover the future payout of those sick hours if they occurred after a person retires. The third category that the employees talked about were their other post-employment benefits. We have 15 employees and six of those employees have greater than 19 and a half years of service. In other words, they're eligible to retire from the city of Sausalito today. And discussions with the district and what the plan for service describes is that for those six employees, that will have 19 and a half years of service in June 32. discussions with the district and what the plan for service describes is that for those six employees that will have 19 and a half years of service, the June 30, 2012, the city would completely cover their other post-employment benefit obligations, in other words their medical insurance. When they retire from the district, the city would cover those medical insurance premiums. But for the other nine employees that have less than 19 and a half years of service, the city and the district and in the plan for service that's in front of you tonight, the city's agreed to make a series of payments over the next 30 years of OPEP payments, $58,000 a year, to cover, that's an expense the city already has, and it's to cover the district now assuming those obligations. And finally, the employees were concerned with pension reciprocity. Pension reciprocity is an interesting subject. There's a comprehensive manual that's put out by CalPERS on just how that works. But basically what it says is that an employee that in Marin County, MCERA is a reciprocal of CalPERS pension agency that you can retire from both. You can retire from the CalPERS and you can retire from MCERA so you don't have to retire at the same time so you don't any of the employees that leave city employment here and go over to the district don't have to retire from CalPERS today they can stay work and then retire from CalPERS sometime in the future they'll receive two benefit payment checks and there's certain conditions and requirements, but when we talked about the reciprocity and worked that through, we reached an agreement that that kind of a transfer could happen. So the employees were in agreement with the proposed MOU changes and as we walk through the process, part of the documents that we'll be preparing, that you'll be directing us to prepare, are those memorandums of understanding with the employees. |
| 00:14:24.20 | Charlie Francis | I just wanted to take just a minute to talk about pension reform. Pension reform is on everybody's minds. It's involved in the government or if they're citizens or if they're employees. What are we doing about pension reform? And this policy decision that you're being asked to make today and the next few months is essentially the ultimate pension reform because many things are occurring. First, the firefighters are going from a single tier system to a multi-tier system. Now, our employees are already at the lowest tier, at the 3% of 55, just like the MCERA lower tier is, but It's one of the recommendations that's being made throughout California is that to move into a multi-tier system and move your employees into the lowest tier of The second thing that this does is it reduces the Southern Marin Fire Protection District overall contribution rates to MSERA. Because of the employees coming in, their normal cost being spread over from the date that they started in Kilpers to projected retirement date, that lowers your normal pension cost. On the other hand though, because they start with the dates of employment with the city of San Diego, it increases the bull's unfunded liabilities, but in lending it overall, it results in a 5% decrease in the Southern Required Recruitment. The protection district's overall rates of pension. Next thing it does is increases the number of employees in MSERA and also the number of employees from the Southern Marin Fire Protection District so that the unfunded viabilities that are being amortized now have a greater base to amortize your employees over. One of the problems with CalPERS is that cities have been shrinking their payrolls and so the rates have to go up up because the amount of these fund pensions are the same so the shrinking payrolls increasing costs at least their payrolls and so the rates have to go up because the amount of need to fund pensions are the same. So the shrinking payrolls, increasing costs, it increases the rates that are being charged to employing agencies. The next, the firefighters will be picking up 50% of their member contributions here from the city of Sausalito. The city of Sausalito currently pays 100% of the employee's contribution. Based on the date of service, the date of hire service, those 50% varies, but right now the city is paying 9% of the city's employees. And under this program, the employee will be paying 6% of their own member contribution. That's another recommendation of pension reform, that your employees pay their share of pension obligations. And finally, this gives us an opportunity for the city to pay out the CalPERS, unfunded liabilities and side funds that we currently have, and we're being charged 7.75% interest. I'm gonna go into a little bit more detail on that later on in the presentation. |
| 00:17:40.15 | Charlie Francis | Now, one will ask, where's the city getting the money for to pay the accrued vacation, the sick leave payout, and the OPEF payments? And basically, we've accrued, as GASB, GASB equivalent for government, requires us to do, we accrue vacations payable, and we set aside an equivalent amount of dollars for vacation payouts. So the city has already set aside that money. |
| 00:17:47.48 | Mike Kelly | Amen. |
| 00:18:05.95 | Charlie Francis | The second thing we do is we annually accrue 1% of salaries into what we call an employee benefits fund. It's its own fund set aside for the purpose of sick lead payouts and OPEB upfunded liabilities. And then for those six employees that will stay as the city's obligation for OPEB payments, we budget on pay-as-you-go for those OPEB benefits for retirees now. The second item in the levels of range of services was the fire station use and equipment agreement. And what the documents that are before you today and was in your staff report and what asking you to direct staff to prepare is that the city would retain ownership of the fire public safety building. And then the city would lease the building to the Southern Marin Fire Protection District. for $100,000 annually for a 30 year period. The district would maintain and repair the building. If this services arrangement should ever change, the district returns the building in its current condition with the exception of normal usage wear. So that was the agreements that are in there regarding the fire station. In terms of the fire apparatus, we've identified the trucks and their attached equipment that would be transferred to the fire protection district, and we would transfer title, basically transfer title. We would also transfer an equivalent amount of money that's already been depreciated on those vehicles, so the district between the vehicle itself and vehicle depreciation would have, and then with its own equipment replacement policy going forward, would have enough money to replace those vehicles and equipment in the future. And of course, the part of the agreements that will be drafted if the services arrangement ever changes, the district would return vehicles of similar type and aging conditions at the city. |
| 00:19:37.21 | Mike Kelly | be transferred. |
| 00:20:17.80 | Charlie Francis | Well, where does the city get that money to pay the $243,000 depreciation? The city annually sets aside an amount of money into its own separate fund and account group, the equivalent of depreciation. And to date, we've set aside $1.6 million into that fund. That would leave, after we pay the $243,000, that leaves a remaining balance available to the city to do whatever is the policy decision the city would want to do. The staff recommendation would be to use that difference to pay off the fire side fund that exists with campers that will pay in 7.75%, and that would further reduce the city's expenses and be yet one more step to mention the problem. Okay, so now the last part of the LAPCO application is how do we finance all this on an annual basis for these expenses that are going over to the district? and outlined in your report is that $2,969,250 of new expenses will be added to the district's expenses. That represents the salaries, the pension and the other benefit costs that go along with those salaries and the City of Sausalito's share of operating costs as well as depreciation and other post-employment benefits. You're absorbing $2,969,250. Now you're asking, well, where are we going to get the revenues to pay for it? And first, the city is going to be transferring $111,000 that we're currently receiving from SMEPS now for our ambulance payments. Second, the city will transfer the share of the GGNRA contract of $33,000. We'll be making direct payments of $58,000 a year for the other post-employment benefit payments. And finally, there is a special tax that is supplied district-wide would be equitably applied throughout the expanded boundaries. That tax being up to a cap of $90 per parcel and with a commercial formula, $0.12, sort of, being applied to the city. And we've asked the county to run those numbers of how much that would generate within the city of Sausalito, and it's about $600,000. So to balance that out, the city and the district have agreed on the documents before you today of transfer an equivalent amount of $2,067,250 in property tax. Now, there's been a lot of discussion about what that means transferring $2 million of our property tax, and it's a substantial amount of money. The distribution of our property tax, I want to just take a moment just to explain real quickly Prop 13 and how property taxes assess. You know Prop 13 said that you can only charge 1% |
| 00:23:32.01 | Charlie Francis | 25 cents of that one dollar per property tax. The other 75 cents within the city limits goes to the school district or to the county or to all the other different taxing districts that exist. The city only gets 25 cents of a dollar. Now that 25 cents generates about almost six million dollars in property tax for the city. And currently, 52% of that money is spent on providing fire services. Or about 13 cents to 25 cents is going to pay for fire services. because $2 million of the $6 million is only 35% Prior to consolidation, we had 52% of our property taxes going to fire services. After consolidation, 35% of our property taxes will be going to. And what that means in actuality is that we go from receiving 25 cents on the dollar to 16 cents on the dollar, and the district would get 9 cents on the dollar. Does that make sense? If I follow that through correctly? 90% of the property tax generated within the city of Sausalito would always be going to the district for the assessed valuation. The assessed valuation for now, 90% of the property tax goes to the district. Another way of looking at that then is comparing the district the city of Sausalito with the district. currently According to the county tax collector, about 14 to 16% of every dollar, and everywhere except the city of Tostolito is going to provide fire protection. And this makes sense, because it's a matter of death |
| 00:25:35.79 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:25:40.67 | Charlie Francis | Congratulations. Thank you. So... population of cities of Estoledo and the Southern Marine Fire Protection District. But we have half of the assessed valuation. So the 14 to 16 cents being applied to your residents in the district generates the amount needed for fire services where in the city only 9 cents is required to provide the equivalent amount of fire service to the city. We've got a lot of questions in our community about this, and that's why I was determined on this. So for the city, it provides a lot of general fund impact. First, it means we're continuing the excellent fire services that we're getting because of the district's command and control and headquarters supervision over our 15 employees. An excellent service. Nobody has ever said that we're getting anything but excellent service from fire department services. But it also gives the city the fiscal stability to meet some of the challenges of the future. Thank you. has ever said that we're getting anything but excellent service, fire department services. But it also gives the city the fiscal stability to meet some of the challenges of the future. We all know that we have challenges on the future, we just want to make sure that we're structurally balanced. As LAFCO wants to make sure that you're structurally balanced as you go forward in the future too. So that's why we go through this LAFCO process. This also provides benefit for the city for increased resources for investments in other service levels. Unlike the district, that is a single service provider, we're a multi-service provider, we do it. place, library, recreation, community development and public work services. And we have an ongoing need to provide those services and you have an ongoing responsibility to provide fire protection services. And this will allow us to have increased resources for investments in our service levels, increased resources for investments in our infrastructure, and increased resources for our pension and our other post-employment benefits. |
| 00:27:17.12 | Mike Kelly | We love that. |
| 00:27:40.62 | Charlie Francis | So staff is recommending to our city council, your city staff is recommending that you make a motion to approve directing staff to prepare the application according with the terms and conditions that are in your packet. And we're also asking to amend the contract with CityGate to provide 46,000 that's jointly funded between the district and the city to continue with the Lapidoy application process. At this point, I'd like to start to you and talked about his recommendations to you, this board. |
| 00:28:30.14 | Unknown | Here we go. Thank you. No, no, it's on. Good evening, Mr. Mayor. I just wanted to follow up, but I think it's on. How's that? Good, good. Good to people there. |
| 00:28:42.80 | Mike Kelly | Could the people in the audience ask this question? |
| 00:28:43.81 | Unknown | Cheers. Thank you. |
| 00:28:46.02 | Jim Irving | Thank you. |
| 00:28:46.06 | Unknown | you |
| 00:28:46.22 | Jim Irving | you |
| 00:28:46.31 | Unknown | you Thank you. |
| 00:28:47.34 | Jim Irving | Okay, I just want to follow up with Charlie's presentation. I'll try to be very brief here. Just to talk about a little bit of financial and operational perspective. A significant amount of effort has gone into this process of vetting out the finances here. We've involved Joane Mills, CityGate, former City Manager of Stockton, Charlie Francis, who obviously is very well heard first in the city finances, myself, and I'm kind of a lightly compared to these guys, Alisa Shipman, our Financial Manager, as well as Dan Palm, who we hired on to help us do this, is a CPA from Nevada Firefly, and understands district finances very well. We've made efforts to forecast out the future costs to personnel, |
| 00:29:35.03 | Unknown | retirement salaries, benefits, and also retirement benefits. So we make sure that it has that portfolio |
| 00:30:49.26 | Jim Irving | How about now? Okay, all right. Okay, great. And then anytime that we can eliminate management positions and put trained firefighters and paramedics on engines, rescues, and ambulances, again, we're providing a better service to our citizens. Okay. If you look at what is currently Southern Marin Fire, we've eliminated eight chief officer positions and we've increased the staffing on our fire engines. That's the people that actually come to your house at 3 o'clock in the morning. You have a better fire department than you did eight years ago and there's no question about that. As a matter of fact, I believe you have one of the best fire departments anywhere. So with that, directing to the board here, we would like to have you motion to approve directing staff to prepare the application to the Marin County LAFCO for the expansion of boundaries of Southern Marin to include the city of Sausalito under the terms and conditions specified in the staff report, et cetera. And with that, |
| 00:31:49.34 | Charlie Francis | Thank you. Thank you, Jim. Thank you, Jim. hope i don't have to go through it all again just because uh... at this point this is a a perfect time for a number of things for the city council to ask some questions of the board for the board to ask some questions of the city council engage in a dialogue first you might want to take public comments and make sure that uh... that any public has the opportunity to speak to this issue. And then finally, we'll leave the recommendation up here so that if you want to make the motion, it's there and you can just say so moved. Thank you, Charlie. |
| 00:32:27.76 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 00:32:27.78 | Jonathan Leone | I've got a one quick thing for you. You're going to note for the record that Councilmember Leon joined a meeting at the quarter of seven. Thanks. I apologize. I got caught in traffic in the city. |
| 00:32:30.87 | Charlie Francis | and there were no |
| 00:32:31.34 | Herb Weiner | the record in order of setting. |
| 00:32:38.36 | Herb Weiner | I'm bad, screwed up. At this time here, I'd like any members of the, before we go to the public, any members of the city council or the fire board, if they have any questions of staff, or do we have any questions? |
| 00:32:55.47 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 00:32:55.49 | Carolyn Ford | Yeah. |
| 00:32:55.70 | Herb Weiner | Councilmember Ford. |
| 00:32:55.72 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. Thank you. Yes, I have a couple questions. Thank you. One is about the makeup of the board. If we go forward with the merger, my understanding is that the board would be elected |
| 00:33:22.69 | Carolyn Ford | AND I WANT TO TALK ABOUT Districtwide. at large that there would not be Sausalito, specific members from Sausalito on the board you Is that true? And if so, Why won't we have specific members? Thank you. |
| 00:33:42.55 | Jim Irving | That is correct. The district is an at-large district, meaning that people are not elected by specific areas, but are elected just at-large from the area. Question as to whether we could or could not do that, I think that would be a question for LAFCO. And Peter, do you want to? |
| 00:34:09.13 | Peter Banning | Um, Yeah, this proposal is to annex the territory of the city to the fire protection district. It doesn't change the nature of the fire protection district. It simply expands its territory. when the Fire Protection District consolidated with another power, when two fire protection districts in 1999, Alto Richardson Bay, And, um, the Tamalpais Fire Protection Districts consolidated |
| 00:34:36.43 | Mike Kelly | Bye. |
| 00:34:40.31 | Peter Banning | two districts consolidated to become one. in 1999, the makeup of the board was slightly altered to expand it from five to seven members. You can do that sort of thing in a consolidation But an annexation doesn't do that. I believe that if you wanted to go to a an election by to change the nature of the district, to provide for election by sub-districts, you'd have to check with the enabling statute for fire protection districts to see if that was permissible first, and then I'm sure it would have to go to an as a separate measure anyway. And so I don't see that as part of this proposal as an annexation. |
| 00:35:27.24 | Carolyn Ford | So we're in annexation instead of a consolidation? |
| 00:35:32.66 | Peter Banning | Pardon me? |
| 00:35:33.32 | Carolyn Ford | We, this particular action is an annexation instead of a consolidation. |
| 00:35:39.65 | Peter Banning | Yes, that's correct. |
| 00:35:41.03 | Carolyn Ford | Can you explain the difference, please? |
| 00:35:43.54 | Peter Banning | a consolidation is two like organizations merging to become one of the same type of organization. Thank you. |
| 00:35:52.25 | Jacques (Public Commenter) | Thank you. |
| 00:35:52.27 | Peter Banning | Uh-huh. |
| 00:35:52.28 | Jacques (Public Commenter) | Uh-huh. |
| 00:35:54.23 | Peter Banning | help. I see. |
| 00:35:54.88 | Mary Richardson | Just like that. Yeah. |
| 00:35:56.03 | Carolyn Ford | Yeah. |
| 00:35:56.12 | Mary Richardson | Thank you. |
| 00:35:56.62 | Peter Banning | In the case of an annexation, you have one agency expanding its boundary to a larger territory. |
| 00:36:05.40 | Carolyn Ford | I see. OK, so if we this is a concern of mine, I I am concerned about control. I am concerned about the city losing control of this essential service. So I would like to know more. about that and how we might pursue having members from Sausalito representing Sausalito on the board. |
| 00:36:31.43 | Peter Banning | Well, I... You know, this is the city's and or the district's proposal. It's an annexation at this point. But I can tell you a little bit about recent experience with a very similar change of organization with the Tiburon Sanitary District and the city of Belvedere. In that case, in 2015, you 2005. The city of Belvedere was annexed to the Tiburon Sanitary District. Sanitary districts have no provision whatever for election by sub areas within the district. So you simply simply not part of the playbook there. |
| 00:37:14.79 | Unknown | Mm-hmm. |
| 00:37:15.73 | Peter Banning | But what you had immediately was citizens of the city of Belvedere standing for election on the Tiburon Sanitary District Board. And it was quite instantaneous. In fact, a majority of the board members were from Belvedere at the next election cycle. you |
| 00:37:37.03 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 00:37:37.06 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 00:37:37.10 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 00:37:37.13 | Peter Banning | you |
| 00:37:37.20 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 00:37:37.57 | Peter Banning | Thank you. |
| 00:37:37.60 | Herb Weiner | to. |
| 00:37:37.79 | Peter Banning | Thank you. |
| 00:37:37.91 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 00:37:37.94 | Peter Banning | Thank you. |
| 00:37:37.97 | Herb Weiner | Yes. Council Member Leon. |
| 00:37:39.90 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:37:40.17 | Herb Weiner | THE END OF |
| 00:37:40.35 | Jonathan Leone | something. |
| 00:37:40.61 | Herb Weiner | you |
| 00:37:41.25 | Jonathan Leone | Jim, didn't your board pass sort of a resolution to this, dealing with this particular issue. |
| 00:37:47.86 | Peter Banning | I can't hear you. |
| 00:37:49.77 | Jonathan Leone | THE FAMILY. |
| 00:37:50.04 | Jim Irving | The question was for me. Oh, sorry. Sorry. I'm getting you off the hook. |
| 00:37:50.31 | Jonathan Leone | you Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:37:51.76 | Peter Banning | Sorry. |
| 00:37:53.01 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 00:37:53.03 | Peter Banning | Thank you. |
| 00:37:53.18 | Jonathan Leone | Yeah. |
| 00:37:53.31 | Peter Banning | Yeah. |
| 00:37:53.82 | Linda Pfeifer | I'll get you off the hook, Peter. |
| 00:37:54.86 | Peter Banning | Thank you. |
| 00:37:54.97 | Jim Irving | At the last board meeting, our board passed a letter of intent which states that they will, upon annexation, appoint two ad hoc members. |
| 00:37:55.44 | Jacques (Public Commenter) | Thank you. |
| 00:37:55.96 | Peter Banning | Yeah. |
| 00:37:55.98 | Jacques (Public Commenter) | No. |
| 00:37:56.32 | Peter Banning | Thank you. |
| 00:37:56.92 | Jacques (Public Commenter) | Thank you, Peter. |
| 00:38:08.47 | Jim Irving | residents of the city to the board to serve in an ad hoc or advisory capacity. And if there are openings on the board, they will give due consideration to those individuals for appointment to the positions on the board. And legally, that is all we can do at this point. Thank you. |
| 00:38:25.58 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 00:38:25.59 | Jim Irving | you |
| 00:38:26.05 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:38:26.62 | Jim Irving | Bye. |
| 00:38:26.66 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. Okay. |
| 00:38:29.05 | Jim Irving | Thank you. |
| 00:38:29.07 | Herb Weiner | Uh, wait, okay. Thank you. |
| 00:38:30.86 | Mike Kelly | What are the seven members of the board, correct? That is correct. And they are elected in two election cycles of four three-year terms? |
| 00:38:30.88 | Herb Weiner | Yeah. Yes. That is correct. |
| 00:38:39.43 | Jim Irving | They are four-year terms, so every two years we have an election. |
| 00:38:40.55 | Mike Kelly | Bye. |
| 00:38:42.45 | Jim Irving | Thank you. |
| 00:38:42.49 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 00:38:43.63 | Jim Irving | Okay. |
| 00:38:43.95 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. And one time is four and the other time is three. |
| 00:38:44.78 | Peter Banning | Thank you. |
| 00:38:44.82 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 00:38:44.83 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 00:38:46.79 | Jim Irving | Thank you. |
| 00:38:46.97 | Herb Weiner | Yes. Yes. |
| 00:38:47.84 | Jim Irving | Thank you. |
| 00:38:47.87 | Linda Pfeifer | I just remember. Mayor Weiner, thank you. So Jim, the two ad hoc members from Sausalito you mentioned joining the board, is it the case that they would be non-voting That is correct. |
| 00:38:58.97 | Jim Irving | That is correct. They would be non-voting unless they were actually appointed to the board. |
| 00:39:04.17 | Linda Pfeifer | So I have a question regarding the cost per unit for Sausalito versus Tam Valley versus you know, Strawberry. And I'm looking at my notes. The special fire tax applies to residences, commercial properties, and vacant land at different rates. and the county assessor calculated the special fire tax would generate 600K in revenue and divided that number by the $90. It has about 6,667 units for Sausalito. So is Thauss-Lito on the same footing in terms of current district participation? you know with respect to strawberry and on Tam Valley like number structures types of structures how they're being taxed how that is all working out I think represents 26 percent |
| 00:39:57.09 | Linda Pfeifer | Because |
| 00:40:00.43 | Linda Pfeifer | and it looks like we'll carry 34, 35% of the cost. |
| 00:40:05.97 | Jim Irving | Well, yeah, but if you look at the other things in the study that were looked at, was not just the population. They looked at the number of assessed valuation. They looked at the number of personnel deployed in each station. They looked at the number of calls. And if you even out all of those things, it comes out to roughly 34%. |
| 00:40:27.48 | Linda Pfeifer | Is there a way that we can get that information, you know, that per unit for Strawberry versus Tam Junction? I'm not talking about the information, the data that you're talking about. I'm talking about, you know, how that $90 translates for Sausalito, how it would translate for Strawberry or Tam Junction. |
| 00:40:30.61 | Jim Irving | You have that information. |
| 00:40:31.84 | Unknown | I'm sorry. |
| 00:40:45.51 | Jim Irving | I don't understand your question. |
| 00:40:47.12 | Linda Pfeifer | Okay, well, I'll just move on then to a different question. |
| 00:40:50.86 | Jim Irving | It's $90 per unit. |
| 00:40:53.01 | Linda Pfeifer | No, I know that. I understand that. I guess I was just trying to understand how that translates to what the percentage that Strawberry is carrying and Tam Junction is carrying. with respect to their cost per unit. |
| 00:41:10.41 | Jonathan Leone | what percentage of their overall revenues come out of Strawberry versus Tam Junction versus Tiburon. Versus parts of what we consider Mills Alley. |
| 00:41:19.98 | Jim Irving | I don't know. We don't really track that. We're a fire district that encompasses all of those areas and we provide a service that covers all those areas. |
| 00:41:22.97 | Jonathan Leone | Okay. |
| 00:41:28.13 | Linda Pfeifer | Okay. So I have actually a question for Lafco. Oh. So when I'm looking at, you know, the city entering this annexation, I also need to ask with the process regarding exiting annexation. And so my question is I know that in order to enter this, we need LAFCO to approve the application and there is criteria. what is the process to exit? Can we change our minds? Can we pull out? Is that even an option? |
| 00:42:10.96 | Peter Banning | Can you withdraw your application? |
| 00:42:12.70 | Linda Pfeifer | No, no, after annexation is done and moving into this is all, you know, |
| 00:42:17.96 | Linda Pfeifer | you |
| 00:42:18.05 | Peter Banning | Mm-hmm. |
| 00:42:18.49 | Linda Pfeifer | Set. And then later we Is there an opportunity to |
| 00:42:24.61 | Peter Banning | Thank you. Yes. |
| 00:42:25.81 | Linda Pfeifer | OK. |
| 00:42:26.30 | Peter Banning | the process would run in reverse. Thank you. you would be applying for detachment from the Fire Protection District. |
| 00:42:33.64 | Linda Pfeifer | And is it the case that one of the criteria you would look at is whether detachment, that is Sassolito leaving the annexation, would be harmful to Southern Marin Fire District? |
| 00:42:44.69 | Peter Banning | Yes. |
| 00:42:46.38 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 00:42:46.65 | Peter Banning | Yes. It would run quite symmetrically in reverse. LAFCO would be considering the interests of both agencies and the residents of both agencies' jurisdictions. |
| 00:42:56.72 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. Thank you. I have another question, but I'll yield to someone else first. |
| 00:42:59.32 | Peter Banning | Thank you. |
| 00:42:59.36 | Carolyn Ford | Have a great day. |
| 00:42:59.43 | Peter Banning | Bye. |
| 00:42:59.46 | Carolyn Ford | Bye. Well, Mr. Mayor. |
| 00:43:04.79 | Herb Weiner | Council member Ford. |
| 00:43:06.02 | Carolyn Ford | I have a question of Chief Irving and this goes back to units versus parcels. Is this tax, the $90, on units or parcels? The $90 is a tax on units. So for each apartment building, each duplex, for each duplex it's two. That is correct. It would be $180. Correct. Okay. Okay. |
| 00:43:28.87 | Linda Pfeifer | That is true. Thank you. |
| 00:43:34.88 | Jim Irving | Okay. |
| 00:43:36.99 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. So I have a question for Charlie. So with respect to you mentioned using |
| 00:43:37.11 | Jim Irving | Go ahead, Council Member Pfeiffer. |
| 00:43:50.61 | Linda Pfeifer | some of the funds to pay off side funds, some of the savings to pay off side funds. And my question is, it's my understanding that a side fund is an actual actuarial estimate of unsecured debt, potential debt. |
| 00:44:07.80 | Charlie Francis | it. If I understand your question, what comprises a site fund? |
| 00:44:11.41 | Linda Pfeifer | No, no, that's not my question. I was prefacing my question. |
| 00:44:14.91 | Charlie Francis | I hope. |
| 00:44:15.19 | Linda Pfeifer | If a side fund is an estimate of actuarial unsecured debt. then If we convert that into If we pay that off, than like with a bond or whatever, just pay it off. It's my understanding that if we were ever in a situation with bankruptcy, that we would be held to that bond or to that payment of the side fund. Whereas if we had left it, actuarially just an unsecured debt, we would not be necessarily held liable for that. under bankruptcy law. |
| 00:44:57.04 | Charlie Francis | I'm not a bankruptcy lawyer. |
| 00:44:59.78 | Linda Pfeifer | Well, Thank you. |
| 00:45:00.28 | Linda Pfeifer | I just raised it because we're talking about paying off side fund debt. |
| 00:45:00.39 | Linda Pfeifer | Hello? |
| 00:45:00.61 | Charlie Francis | I just raised it because Okay. |
| 00:45:04.33 | Linda Pfeifer | And I understand the savings to principal and interest, but I was just asking... |
| 00:45:07.36 | Mike Kelly | Yeah, I've seen. |
| 00:45:07.93 | Jim Irving | Thank you. |
| 00:45:08.15 | Mike Kelly | It's not a history. |
| 00:45:08.79 | Jim Irving | Thank you. |
| 00:45:08.82 | Charlie Francis | Thank you, Mayor Kelly. |
| 00:45:09.73 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. That's not an estimate, so please correct that. |
| 00:45:11.08 | Charlie Francis | Now, going to the preface, the side fund is a precise calculation that was computed at the time the city stopped having its own pension plan and went into a pension pool. And it was an estimate of the city's unfunded liability at that time. The side fund is paid, the principal and interest payments, if you will, on that side fund are made as a percentage of payroll rather than as a fixed dollar amount. |
| 00:45:38.91 | Unknown | So, |
| 00:45:39.52 | Charlie Francis | and and under california law of the side funds and pension payments are secured Uh... As a as a levy against the total taxes of the city as any other general obligation of the city. Now, that's as far as I know as a finance director. The question of bankruptcy, I can't answer. |
| 00:46:01.96 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 00:46:02.03 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 00:46:02.06 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 00:46:02.08 | Carolyn Ford | . |
| 00:46:02.20 | Charlie Francis | Okay. |
| 00:46:02.35 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 00:46:02.54 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 00:46:02.55 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 00:46:02.62 | Herb Weiner | you time. Thank you. I got a member for it. |
| 00:46:05.02 | Carolyn Ford | I'm not. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. One question that gets to the overall cost, and that is why is the board willing to give us Well, why is the board charging us $761,651 more If we choose I to go with the same contract we have today versus annexation. and It seems to me from what the consultant has reported, we are operating currently as a though we were already annexed or consolidated. And so I don't understand why the large amount of money is being, why you would assess such a large amount of money if you were to continue the contract. |
| 00:47:17.97 | Jim Irving | Jim. The reason is that for many, many years, the district has been subsidizing the city of Sausalito. the district employees five chief officers that oversee the city of Sausalito. The cost of that is significant. Currently, the city of Sausalito is only paying $106,000 per year for that cost. Clearly, that is not paying one-third of that cost. So that is the reason the district has been offering this service to the city at a reduced rate in an effort to try to make this work. |
| 00:47:55.75 | Carolyn Ford | but you've been offering us that rate at $600,000 less than its value? Thank you. |
| 00:48:01.54 | Jim Irving | Thank you. |
| 00:48:01.57 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 00:48:01.59 | Jim Irving | That is correct. |
| 00:48:02.75 | Carolyn Ford | 600,000 a year. That seems like an awful lot. It is an awful lot. Well then how do you manage under the consolidation with less money? |
| 00:48:20.14 | Jim Irving | The reason we do that with consolidation is because LAFCO stipulates that we can't charge more than it actually costs us to take on the service. The district is interested in pursuing a full annexation because it's a more permanent and stable fixture for the future. |
| 00:48:41.63 | Carolyn Ford | So there has to be room in that number for negotiation, I would think. I don't know. |
| 00:48:46.97 | Jim Irving | I don't think there is. I think that we've been doing this long enough that we have to look at it is that each agency has to pay its fair share in going forward in this. Thank you. |
| 00:49:00.52 | Carolyn Ford | Okay. |
| 00:49:01.24 | Jim Irving | Why should we provide something to the city of Sausalito at less than what it's truly costing us in the long run? |
| 00:49:08.13 | Carolyn Ford | Well, you shouldn't, but if the annexation is less, then, um, then Why not provide us something that's the same or a little more since we are codependent, according to our consultant? |
| 00:49:24.55 | Jim Irving | as well. Because at some point in the future, someone will look at it and say, this is not fair. It needs to be fair. Okay. |
| 00:49:32.60 | Herb Weiner | excuse me, at this time, Joanne, would you like to Please make a comment on that. |
| 00:49:39.57 | Charlie Francis | Thank you. I just wanted to point out that the district is, not doing it under a consolidation for the same price. They're bringing in all the city's employees and have the obligation for almost $3 million of new expenses that they're incurring in here. |
| 00:49:57.00 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:49:57.18 | Charlie Francis | Thank you. |
| 00:49:57.20 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:49:58.53 | Duane Milnes | I'm Duane Milnes, the principal of Citygate Associates, and we did the study and the fiscal calculations |
| 00:50:05.72 | Jacques (Public Commenter) | Okay, but I got it. |
| 00:50:07.26 | Duane Milnes | What you have now are two separate government agencies. and The district has to offer to the city. a portion of their headquarters unit. And... what they're proposing to do if annexation does not occur. is to sell a portion of that headquarters unit services to the city. and for the city to pay for that piece of the headquarters unit that is necessary to oversee the city's operation. |
| 00:50:43.07 | Carolyn Ford | Just what we're doing today, correct? |
| 00:50:45.01 | Duane Milnes | And what they're doing today is selling you that piece for significantly less than what the fair share is. The fair share is somewhere around about a third |
| 00:50:48.38 | Carolyn Ford | Yeah. |
| 00:50:55.66 | Duane Milnes | And what we found throughout the state is where one agency essentially is providing services to another in an amount that does not represent a fair share that the provider thinks is fair, that you wind up with acrimony and divorce. When you're a codependent, you need a fiscal relationship. that both parties feel represents a fair formula The formula that we have in the study represents a composite rate. you certainly can look at those factors and say a little bit more weight should be given to population or a little bit more weight should be given to assess value so that the percent may change. What the report really is telling you is that the district has been substantially subsidizing the city over the years and that that number will have to change and by order of magnitude that cost increase to the city is going to be somewhere in the neighborhood of $600,000. Whether it's $605,000 or $590,000 can be a matter of discussion. but for the district to feel that they're providing that to the city in a fair share amount, it would have to be substantially higher than what they've been paying. |
| 00:52:14.76 | Carolyn Ford | So 600K, does that include the GGNRA monies? |
| 00:52:21.84 | Duane Milnes | The GGNRA monies are currently... |
| 00:52:24.05 | Carolyn Ford | that we received. |
| 00:52:26.51 | Duane Milnes | Separately, that would be a, that is now and would continue to be a separate revenue to the city. Separate? Okay. |
| 00:52:30.10 | Carolyn Ford | Is that true? Okay, so you subtract 200 and that brings it down to 400K. you subtract 100,000 for the ambulances and that brings it down to 300K. So are we looking at essentially. |
| 00:52:45.32 | Unknown | Essentially, you |
| 00:52:46.59 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 00:52:46.64 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:52:46.68 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 00:52:48.90 | Duane Milnes | It's apples and oranges. |
| 00:52:49.43 | Carolyn Ford | $300,000 more to pay under a contract? |
| 00:52:51.10 | Duane Milnes | No. No, no, you already know. |
| 00:52:54.20 | Carolyn Ford | So you do include the 100,000 in the 600? |
| 00:52:56.16 | Duane Milnes | I know. No, you are... The city of Sausalito has, in order to finance its current fire operation, property taxes, GGNRA revenue. |
| 00:53:09.91 | Carolyn Ford | Sure. |
| 00:53:10.20 | Duane Milnes | and ambulance revenue. |
| 00:53:11.58 | Carolyn Ford | Yes. |
| 00:53:12.48 | Duane Milnes | and you are paying That is revenue that you have. and your expenses are your staff. and a small portion of the headquarters expense. if the annexation does not occur, you would continue with that same amount of revenue, but your expenses would go up approximately an additional $600,000. So there would be a net increase of about $600,000 over what you have now. |
| 00:53:44.05 | Carolyn Ford | Okay, so we would owe 600 more, but we would still have the revenue from the ambulance service and the revenue from the GGNRA. |
| 00:53:57.06 | Duane Milnes | as you do now. |
| 00:53:58.11 | Carolyn Ford | Yes. Okay, great. So that's 600k then represents what we're asking our residents to pay. In the person's house. |
| 00:54:12.72 | Carolyn Ford | Excuse me, I hope that's not some of our firemen. No. So that 600K represents some of the represents actually what we're asking our residents to pay. Essentially, we're asking them to pay $600,000 in a parcel tax. So if the city wanted, could not the city keep control |
| 00:54:30.34 | Mike Kelly | No. Yeah. |
| 00:54:34.12 | Duane Milnes | Thank you. |
| 00:54:34.27 | Mary Richardson | No, that amount. |
| 00:54:40.41 | Carolyn Ford | of the fire services and ourselves tax the residents in the amount of $600,000. |
| 00:54:50.05 | Duane Milnes | That amount is only coincidental. what, What you are doing now, is you are funding your fire department with approximately $2.7, $2.8 million in property taxes. with about 100,000 or so in ambulance revenue and a couple hundred thousand in GGNRA revenue. that those are your financing sources for your fire department. |
| 00:55:22.58 | Unknown | Mm-hmm. |
| 00:55:23.43 | Duane Milnes | and your expenses are a like amount. |
| 00:55:26.24 | Unknown | Mm-hmm. |
| 00:55:27.97 | Duane Milnes | If you annex instead of using 2.7 or so in property taxes, you will be only using about 2.1 million in property taxes and about 600,000 in parcel taxes. If you do not annex, you will continue to use about $2.7 million in property taxes and incur an additional expense of approximately $600,000 or so. And you would have to either get that additional money by reducing services elsewhere in your budget or going for a partial tax to the public. So that your net cost would be in the neighborhood of $600,000 higher without annexation than with annexation. |
| 00:56:17.31 | Carolyn Ford | Agreed. So I agree with that totally. But what I'm talking about here is that If the city elected to stay in control of their fire services and their property taxes, it would cost us $600,000 approximately a year in additional money towards fire service. From some source. |
| 00:56:50.06 | Duane Milnes | From some source. I'm sorry? From some source. |
| 00:56:53.49 | Carolyn Ford | Yes, and so if we wanted, we could, as an option, and I think this has not been made clear to our residents, we could... up to have to continue with the contract and pay $600,000 more and tax our residents ourselves or get how or go back to our budget and figure out how to make up that 600k more That's the point I think that needs to be made, perhaps, and I'm asking you to confirm that. |
| 00:57:37.74 | Duane Milnes | you would have a net increased cost of somewhere in the neighborhood of $600,000. You would have to find that money Thank you. you from some source. Okay. And what that source is is up to the city council. Okay. Thank you. I invite you, Mayor Kelly. |
| 00:57:45.46 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 00:57:45.50 | Mike Kelly | Okay. Okay, thank you. Uh, That would also... be dependent on them agreeing that they wanted to go forward with a contract services as opposed to an annexation, correct? |
| 00:57:59.72 | Duane Milnes | yeah absolutely the any |
| 00:58:00.80 | Mike Kelly | And if we didn't, if they didn't, if they said to hell with it, we're out of here, what would our cost be? |
| 00:58:05.90 | Duane Milnes | Your cost would be somewhere, would be close to $4.4 million, which is right in the neighborhood of a million, million two, more than what you're experiencing now. |
| 00:58:16.45 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. Mr. Howard. |
| 00:58:17.63 | Duane Milnes | However It, it, it. |
| 00:58:19.97 | Herb Weiner | And that's not including overtime, is that correct? Overtime is a separate issue? |
| 00:58:25.17 | Duane Milnes | Time is a separate issue? No, that would include the overtime. |
| 00:58:28.97 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 00:58:28.99 | Duane Milnes | Thank you. |
| 00:58:29.02 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. One more question. Wait a minute. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. |
| 00:58:30.71 | Jim Irving | One more question. |
| 00:58:31.97 | Linda Pfeifer | I just wanted to think her. |
| 00:58:32.98 | Jonathan Leone | Yeah. |
| 00:58:34.62 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 00:58:34.76 | Jonathan Leone | I'm... My understanding from the board and the subset of the board that we've met with over the years is that the board isn't interested in ongoing continuing service in a |
| 00:58:37.76 | Linda Pfeifer | Bye. |
| 00:58:38.01 | Herb Weiner | You and then... Mindless. |
| 00:58:49.74 | Jonathan Leone | contract for service mode. is that is that a an accurate statement |
| 00:58:55.46 | Mike Kelly | Yeah. |
| 00:58:55.48 | Linda Pfeifer | out. |
| 00:59:01.77 | Catherine Hilliard | looking at the animization. |
| 00:59:09.70 | Catherine Hilliard | As the checkers mentioned, we're looking at annexation to continue continuity of service |
| 00:59:09.84 | Mary Richardson | check out. |
| 00:59:15.56 | Catherine Hilliard | as well as a cost saving issue as staff has prepared for you regarding economies of scale. It would be prudent to look at it in a cost manner regarding salaries, additional positions, et cetera, usage of resources, and immediate response. The Chief has relayed to the Council regarding how the improvement of services have been, you know, astronomical since we started this partnership. Regarding the question of contract for services, It did enter the board's mind regarding contract of services but we feel there's a their need regarding consolidation. for our annexation at this time. Is that correct, Chief? |
| 01:00:02.68 | Linda Pfeifer | Okay. |
| 01:00:02.98 | Herb Weiner | Yeah. |
| 01:00:03.32 | Linda Pfeifer | . |
| 01:00:03.38 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. All right. Council Member Fyfler, I'm going to let you finish up a question, and then I'm going to open it to the public quickly, because we didn't. |
| 01:00:10.91 | Linda Pfeifer | Well, I think |
| 01:00:13.37 | Herb Weiner | Go ahead. |
| 01:00:13.86 | Linda Pfeifer | Well, I have a question for the board regarding specifically binding arbitration. And I'm concerned with binding arbitration because Um, of the implications it can carry when it finds its way into an MOU or contract. And so my question is, and as you probably know, we're a general law city, and so the Supreme Court has ruled on two occasions that binding arbitration is unconstitutional with respect to general law cities. But the Southern Marin Fire District is a special district. So I guess my question is that I know that binding arbitration for, you know, benefits, et cetera, is not in the current, you know, MOU with firefighters. But to ensure guarantees and reassurances that this would never be the case in the future, it's my understanding that we need to secure written concurrence and agreement with firefighters from both agencies confirming with legal counsel and union counsel that they would not agree ever to put binding arbitration into a future MOU contract? Is that something that the board would agree to do? |
| 01:01:33.70 | Mike Kelly | Lord. This is way outside the north. |
| 01:01:36.36 | Carolyn Ford | I'm going to... |
| 01:01:36.58 | Linda Pfeifer | Order of order, Ms. Speaker. |
| 01:01:37.21 | Herb Weiner | Okay, excuse me. |
| 01:01:38.66 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 01:01:40.84 | Linda Pfeifer | It's okay if the board's answer is no, but I have to ask the question because it has |
| 01:01:44.75 | Mike Kelly | because it has- |
| 01:01:46.79 | Herb Weiner | Wait a minute, hold, hold, hold. |
| 01:01:46.81 | Mike Kelly | Wait a minute. |
| 01:01:49.41 | Linda Pfeifer | You can't answer it. No. Okay. Well, I mean, could... |
| 01:01:50.68 | Herb Weiner | Okay. |
| 01:01:51.18 | Linda Pfeifer | Oh, oh. |
| 01:01:52.45 | Linda Pfeifer | Well, just... |
| 01:01:52.48 | Herb Weiner | Well, Oh. |
| 01:01:53.97 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:01:55.15 | Linda Pfeifer | Okay, well, if the answer is you can't answer it, what might be the process to get to that answer? |
| 01:02:00.90 | Jim Irving | If I could address, as I explained in the email to you earlier, You know, currently binding arbitration applies only to the grievance procedure. I don't see it as a benefit to the district. As fire chief, I would not recommend that we do that. You know, But that doesn't limit what any board can do in the future. You know, the future board is up to them to do what they think is in the best interest of providing fire service. |
| 01:02:29.81 | Herb Weiner | Okay. Thank you. Let's open it up to the public. Is there any public comment at this time? |
| 01:02:30.62 | Carolyn Ford | Thanks. |
| 01:02:36.09 | Herb Weiner | No. Mr. Mayor. |
| 01:02:36.56 | Carolyn Ford | Mr. Mayor, I have one more question that I think is vital. |
| 01:02:38.85 | Herb Weiner | Yeah. That's fine. If you look at it, I bring it back up here. Go ahead, Scott. |
| 01:02:43.70 | Carolyn Ford | I would just like to ask one more question about overall plans for the board for annexation of other cities and what you're looking at there. Could someone please respond? |
| 01:02:59.36 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:02:59.37 | Jim Irving | Jim. Yes, we are currently talking with Cordo Madera about some resource sharing Where that will go in the future, we don't know. You know, it's sort of like we started with the city of Sausalito back in 2003. You know, will it take You know? Eight years to get to something with Corte Madera? Hard to say. Will it even happen? We don't even know that yet. It's been dragging on for over two months now. We've been working on this, so we will see where it ends up. You know, our goal is to annex or to further merge with other agencies. You know, we think that a larger fire department and elimination of management and administrative and elimination of duplication in the fire service is good for the fire service. You know, we believe that creating a larger organization It can Gain more economies of scale and provide a better service to the citizens is in the interest of serving citizens. |
| 01:04:04.41 | Herb Weiner | Okay, thank you, Jim. Thank you. |
| 01:04:04.90 | Jim Irving | Thank you. |
| 01:04:05.52 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 01:04:05.64 | Jim Irving | Thank you. |
| 01:04:05.68 | Jonathan Leone | At this |
| 01:04:06.43 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:04:06.47 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 01:04:06.52 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. Yeah. |
| 01:04:07.03 | Jonathan Leone | question. |
| 01:04:07.68 | Herb Weiner | We have one last question. Jim, one last question. |
| 01:04:10.15 | Jonathan Leone | Jim, one last question, if you would. Can you describe how Southern Wren works with the district of parts of Tiburon and how that arrangement evolved over time? And people think of Tiburon as, the areas that you serve in Tiburon. |
| 01:04:25.99 | Jim Irving | We do serve about a quarter of the town of Tiburon. And it's simply part of the district. The Tiburon Fire District was formed separately from the town of Tiburon, and so their borders and their jurisdictional boundaries are not the same. There's a number of areas on the backside of Tiburon Boulevard, or excuse me, Paradise Drive, that are part of the Tiburon Fire Protection District but not part of the town. Likewise, there's parts of the town that are not part of the fire district and we serve the area essentially from the Cove Shopping Center it's the area there called Bel Air. all the way to Blackie's pasture. |
| 01:05:08.01 | Herb Weiner | Okay. All right, at this time here, I think I'd like to move to where I have a motion. |
| 01:05:11.96 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. I have a question. |
| 01:05:18.41 | Herb Weiner | OK. |
| 01:05:19.62 | Linda Pfeifer | Council member Pfeiffer. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I appreciate it. The question is for Charlie. Charlie, please. Thank you, Charlie. |
| 01:05:20.35 | Herb Weiner | Council Member Viver. |
| 01:05:31.33 | Linda Pfeifer | So my question concerns the equations of the $200 formula versus the $90 formula. And we know that the $200 tax for the JPA option included the 130 to rebalance the city's general fund and then $70 for the equivalent surplus, which totals 200. So my question is, aren't taxpayers facing similar exposure to cost increase with consolidation or I guess annexation? in the pension benefit area and shouldn't therefore the $90 quote be upped an additional $70 to general to, you know, for this equivalent surplus on the annexation side. |
| 01:06:13.99 | Charlie Francis | No, I'm the I do not believe that. I believe that the Southern Marin Fire District is structurally balanced now and structurally balanced as they go in the future. The city of Sausalito is currently structurally unbalanced because we've been heavily subsidized by $600,000 a year by the Southern Marin Fire District. The... If that subsidy goes away, we're unbalanced. and we'd either have to find a new revenue source or we would have to cut services. substantial amount of services. |
| 01:06:54.71 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:06:55.05 | Charlie Francis | So the 90, I think, is equivalent on their side and doesn't need to be increased. |
| 01:07:00.31 | Linda Pfeifer | So per your comment about structure, if I may, Mr. Mayor, a follow-up based on his answer. |
| 01:07:04.23 | Charlie Francis | Go ahead. |
| 01:07:04.70 | Mike Kelly | Bye. |
| 01:07:06.61 | Linda Pfeifer | you referred to structurally balanced the district. So is it the case that the district surplus which was in the CityGate report is fully allocated to equipment replacement costs. and that district accounting does not allow for reserves, so the surplus can't be used to offset increases in pension costs. |
| 01:07:32.14 | Charlie Francis | No. I can't speak for the policy decision the board makes on how they assign fund balance, whether it's restricted or unrestricted. I can't opine on that. What I do know is that they do restrict all of their fund balance for equipment surplus because on the statement of net assets, it's just the policy decision they've made. |
| 01:07:56.46 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:07:56.59 | Charlie Francis | Later on this evening, the city council will be asked to make some policy decisions on how we redefine our fund balance according to GASB 54. They're going to have to go through the same process. Probably this week. And tomorrow night, okay. And they will have to say how much is assigned, how much is committed, and how much is restricted. And they may be making changes to that. That's their policy decision as it is our policy decision on how we say how much is disaster reserved, how much is contingency reserved, and how much is reserved for replacement of equipment. Thank you, Charlie. |
| 01:08:29.97 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you, Charlie. |
| 01:08:31.07 | Herb Weiner | Thank you, John. All right. |
| 01:08:31.96 | Charlie Francis | All right. Okay. |
| 01:08:32.55 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. I move that we approve direct staff to prepare the application to the Marin County Local Agency Formation Committee, LAFCO, for the expansion of the boundaries of the Southern Marin Fire Department to include the City of Sausalito under the terms and conditions specified in the Staff Report. and also to amend the contract with CityGate to the amount of $46,000 to be jointly funded by the City of Sausalito and the Southern Marin Fire Protection District. |
| 01:08:54.62 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 01:08:55.00 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 01:08:55.50 | Jonathan Leone | No, go ahead. I have a comment. You can stay. |
| 01:08:58.09 | Herb Weiner | Thanks. And I'll second it. |
| 01:09:02.15 | Jonathan Leone | So let me just state my three minutes, W, if you want to. |
| 01:09:05.75 | Herb Weiner | Uh, Councilmember Leon, go ahead. |
| 01:09:08.75 | Jonathan Leone | Um... Coming into this situation five years ago, I was not a big fan of the overall concept of how this relationship came together. and progressed, but stepping into the middle of it It is something where eventually you see the reality of the situation. And change can be scary for some. and it can be bring on some emotions of loss of identity or what have you. |
| 01:09:39.11 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 01:09:40.34 | Jonathan Leone | But the reality of this situation is things cannot stay the way they are. and that takes some getting used to. and because the district does not have that same model of operation and I think they learned through this process that how difficult these mergers are and where the costs were that they didn't foresee. Thank you. We have increased the amount of cost sharing we've had with the district with the prior chief but not to this extent. I think it also bears note that the city currently administers all the health benefits, all the more administrative costs for all the firefighters because it was too complicated to have Southern Marin do it because it was two separate plans and two separate insurance companies and all separate retirement systems. So all we basically do is pay Southern Miranda a small amount, $200,000 a year and that's for coats and hoses and stuff like that. But the bulk of these costs, we still pay directly as a city and manage that cost. That will all transfer. We all keep that in mind. Those administrative duties will all transfer over to the district, and there's a cost to that, a more day-to-day cost. So in addition to maybe getting some discounted costs on managing employees, which I think is what people are referring to because the district has managed the employees of the firefighters who are employed by Sausalito. They will inherit all the administrative costs that they don't have at the current time. But I think what we realize here, and it really comes down to Very simple math. is that If you need a supervisor on every shift, and you need a supervisor of the supervisors, it's going to cost a lot more to do these things, whether you do it yourself, or whether you pay the full cost of having someone else do it. and You don't have to be a rocket scientist or understand pension reform. Pension or bankruptcy law to understand that And the district is faced like every other district, with trying to run their situation financially properly, and we are too. Um, Yeah. At one point, it struck at my heart chords to say, okay, we no longer run our own fire department, but I'm over that. because the reality is we want to provide citizens with the best fire service. if you ever need it. And that's the reality of it. I don't care who provides it. as long as it's done well and it's done at the lowest cost. So we currently contract with other people to do other things that you may not realize. So in a sense, that's what the reality of forming a larger district is to gain economies of scale, it's unfortunate that there is no immediate way to change your representation. But that'll happen. That'll happen over time. I'm sure energetic folks will stand up and run. And that's something that we can't do immediately. Thank you. But I think the financials speak for themselves here. You can try to poke holes at them in a variety of ways. Um, The reality is, you know, if you need five people, you've got to pay for five people. |
| 01:12:42.66 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. Um, Vice Mayor Kelly, you want three minutes? |
| 01:12:47.57 | Mike Kelly | I began this process seven years ago when I was elected to the council and I was appointed to this two person committee from Sausalito. So I've lived with this for seven long years. I've turned it over and looked at it from every possible angle. I've added the numbers up over and over and over again. I've approved fire budgets every year. I've talked with most of you over here. |
| 01:12:57.20 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:12:57.22 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. THE END OF |
| 01:13:07.53 | Mike Kelly | constantly about the cost of the fire department what it costs to run it. The subsidy that Sausalito has been getting for the last seven years, which is enormous. Time 7. If it's only 600, that's 4 million bucks that you guys have laid out. And you've done it because you and I and others came to the conclusion that the best and possible fire department that we could have is one that is larger and can provide a higher level of service than a small town fire department could otherwise do. And we only need to look at the service for the last seven years to absolutely underscore that. So there is no question about it, these numbers are not cooked, there's nothing in them that is wrong. I defy anybody to find one single mistake in those numbers or one single I do hear that some people do not want to lose control, and that is an issue, and I respect that issue to them. but I do not respect when the facts are distorted so that the numbers are made to be something other than what they we will in Sausalito pay either $600,000 a year more as taxpayers, or 1.2 million plus plus plus more as taxpayers. And that's the reality that we're facing. So what I want to do tonight is to say, that what we're voting on tonight is not on We're voting on an opportunity for the voters of Sausalito to vote on what kind of fire department they want. They will make the choice. And for all of us who sit up here who have said, we are for the people, the people speak, the people you Thank you. Tell us what to do, and we do it. and the people should be heard, I say to you, anything other than a yes vote on this thing tonight is. a repudiation of that stance. |
| 01:14:54.22 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. you |
| 01:14:54.74 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:14:54.79 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:14:54.86 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:14:54.89 | Mike Kelly | you |
| 01:14:55.06 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:14:55.23 | Mike Kelly | Mr. Mayor? |
| 01:14:55.24 | Herb Weiner | Mr. |
| 01:14:56.10 | Linda Pfeifer | you |
| 01:14:57.22 | Herb Weiner | Council member Ford, you will be the last one speaking. |
| 01:15:00.44 | Linda Pfeifer | I do have a comment, Mr. Mayor. |
| 01:15:01.79 | Herb Weiner | Look, I've let you speak many, many times, even when When I sat here, and not said anything in. It's, we, for an hour meeting, it's now an hour and a half, and we're going back and forth. And you can get your answers, your questions answered, But I'll let you speak and then we're going to go ahead with this motion and move on. We have a council meeting on top of this. Okay. |
| 01:15:32.86 | Carolyn Ford | Mr. Mayor, all I want to do is comment, use my three minutes. And I particularly want to comment, since I am opposed to the annexation, I want to be very clear that I'm This is not about our fireman's performance. They do an outstanding job, and I have the greatest respect and admiration for Chief I have observed the firemen and I have had personal dealings with them. the Elizabeth and Scott McBride's house burned it to the ground, and my home that was immediately next door was saved by firemen. They responded in a couple minutes when my father-in-law had a fatal heart attack. So this is not about firemen. This is about a contract. And it is about control. And I feel that I must say that I think that in our... survey of people that we took of the residents that telling the residents that it would take a 200K or 400K parcel tax if we didn't go for consolidation was misleading. I think that one of the questions on that survey should have been, would the residents be willing to pay a $90 parcel tax and maintain control, local control of our fire services? Fire services is one of the most important services the city provides residents. If we merge, Sausalito gives up control. Members of the Southern Fire District Board are elected at large, and we heard that again tonight, and the district wants to expand to bring in Corte Madera and other cities to be larger. Sausalito will at that point have little or no control. Sausalito also gives up control of approximately 35% of property tax revenue and property taxes represent approximately 50%. of the city's revenue. I believe that residents would be willing to pay a slightly higher amount to maintain control of fire services and our tax dollars. Residents need to know these issues and it is the city's responsibility to give residents an unbiased set of facts. That has not happened so far. In addition, the fact that the workshops are all scheduled for the summer months is telling. Many people will be on vacation and unable to attend. At a minimum, these need to extend into September so that people have the opportunity to attend. |
| 01:18:26.20 | Herb Weiner | Okay. Mr. Mayor. No, that is it. |
| 01:18:26.82 | Carolyn Ford | Mr. Mayor? |
| 01:18:27.62 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:18:28.78 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 01:18:28.81 | Linda Pfeifer | I'm only asking for my three minutes under Rosenberg's rules of order. |
| 01:18:29.71 | Herb Weiner | No. |
| 01:18:30.22 | Mary Richardson | I'm asking for my three minutes under residence. |
| 01:18:31.92 | Herb Weiner | you |
| 01:18:35.14 | Herb Weiner | Okay. You push it. |
| 01:18:42.21 | Linda Pfeifer | I want to say that I too respect our firefighters. I respect Chief Irving. I appreciate all of the responses I received from Southern Marin with my questions the past two weeks and the research that I was doing for my due diligence. I remain concerned about annexation for multiple reasons. First, with respect to the comments earlier about pension reform, I want to say that we could, the city of Sausalito could always renegotiate firefighter contracts next year to include a second chair and to include member contributions in alignment with what Southern Marin is doing. I am extremely concerned about the binding arbitration element with respect to wiggling into future MOUs, given the nature of binding arbitration with respect to pension costs. And I also believe that this is... This annexation actually moves the pension, the unfunded pension liability, the firefighter pension costs from the city to the Sausalito taxpayer. And that is of great concern to me. Again, I feel that there has been a march to this solution, to this outcome, since I have been on this council, from what I have seen. And I do believe that there are other options out there with respect to... Well, okay, I'm... Point of order. Point of order. |
| 01:20:19.43 | Carolyn Ford | And the point is... |
| 01:20:22.31 | Linda Pfeifer | I'm having questions shouted at me. |
| 01:20:22.33 | Unknown | finished up |
| 01:20:22.97 | Mary Richardson | Yeah. |
| 01:20:26.06 | Linda Pfeifer | But I do have many concerns about this annexation and for the reasons stated. So thank you. |
| 01:20:34.70 | Herb Weiner | Okay, well, we're gonna vote on this now. The only thing I can say is, It's amazing how people try to put fear into things, thinking that once again we're going to be that you think that you're going to drive this train by fear. And that's what, once again, I've seen it time and time again, and fear only brings out anger. not not not not results so with that We have a motion, we have a second. All in favor? What? |
| 01:21:07.03 | Jonathan Leone | Take a roll of those. |
| 01:21:07.61 | Herb Weiner | Let's have a welcome. |
| 01:21:12.81 | Herb Weiner | No. |
| 01:21:13.24 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 01:21:15.89 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:21:15.91 | Carolyn Ford | Yes. |
| 01:21:19.82 | Carolyn Ford | No. |
| 01:21:21.78 | Unknown | Vice Mayor Kelly. |
| 01:21:24.79 | Mike Kelly | giving the voters of Sausalito the opportunity to decide what kind of fire department they want. I vote yes. |
| 01:21:33.75 | Herb Weiner | For the sake of common sense, I vote yes. |
| 01:21:35.94 | Mary Richardson | No. |
| 01:21:38.35 | Mike Kelly | you |
| 01:21:39.79 | Herb Weiner | Okay, thank you very, very much. Jim? |
| 01:21:42.57 | Mike Kelly | Very good. |
| 01:21:43.33 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 01:21:43.82 | Mike Kelly | Yeah, the board is still there. Thank you. |
| 01:21:47.84 | Unknown | that we |
| 01:21:52.41 | Unknown | What is this? Thank you. |
| 01:21:53.12 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:21:53.19 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:21:53.20 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah, yeah. |
| 01:21:53.29 | Unknown | Thank you. Yeah. |
| 01:21:53.42 | Unknown | Thank you. you |
| 01:21:57.20 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:22:03.40 | Unknown | Catherine Hilliard, Southern Men Fire Board. I move that we recommend adopt this recommendation to continue the process |
| 01:22:13.56 | Catherine Hilliard | Thank you. A motion on the floor. Do we have a second? |
| 01:22:16.76 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:22:20.27 | Catherine Hilliard | I wasn't over. |
| 01:22:22.77 | Unknown | Bye. Okay. |
| 01:22:25.52 | Catherine Hilliard | We're in the fact that Southern Iran endorses a motion to approve staff to further proceed with the process. |
| 01:22:32.89 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. Okay. Thank you very, very much. Thank you for coming. |
| 01:22:36.30 | Jonathan Leone | Amen. |
| 01:22:39.68 | Herb Weiner | I don't care. |
| 01:22:47.03 | Mary Richardson | Thank you. |
| 01:22:47.05 | Catherine Hilliard | Bye. |
| 01:22:47.07 | Mary Richardson | Bye. |
| 01:22:47.09 | Catherine Hilliard | attack. |
| 01:22:48.23 | Mary Richardson | Any time to motion for your adjournment? |
| 01:22:48.44 | Catherine Hilliard | Mm-hmm. Anti-emotional for your enjoyment. |
| 01:22:51.61 | Jacques (Public Commenter) | you |
| 01:22:51.68 | Catherine Hilliard | Thank you. Thank you. Have a first and second. All those in favor. Aye. |
| 01:22:54.78 | Jacques (Public Commenter) | Thank you. |
| 01:22:54.80 | Herb Weiner | and stuff and all this information. Thank you. |
| 01:22:56.54 | Unknown | I am. |
| 01:22:56.62 | Herb Weiner | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 01:22:56.67 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:22:56.70 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 01:22:57.58 | Catherine Hilliard | Thank you. |
| 01:22:57.62 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 01:22:57.65 | Catherine Hilliard | Thank you. |
| 01:22:57.68 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. Thank you very, very much. And we motion to adjournment here. So moved. |
| 01:23:02.98 | Jim Irving | Second. |
| 01:23:03.94 | Herb Weiner | All in favor. |
| 01:23:04.70 | Jim Irving | Thank you very, very much. |
| 01:23:10.42 | Mike Kelly | You guys are killing me. |
| 01:23:12.18 | Jim Irving | Okay. |
| 01:23:12.36 | Mike Kelly | Yeah. |
| 01:23:12.45 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah. I got it. |
| 01:23:13.78 | Jim Irving | you |
| 01:23:14.29 | Linda Pfeifer | We're going to take five minutes and then come back to our regular meeting. |
| 01:23:14.42 | Jim Irving | It's gonna take five minutes. |
| 01:23:17.14 | Mike Kelly | Bye. |
| 01:23:20.60 | Mike Kelly | He's not famous. |
| 01:23:21.46 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:23:22.24 | Mike Kelly | All right. Thank you. What? |
| 01:23:26.30 | Vicki Nichols | No, no, no. I said the surgery is misleading. The number of others. |
| 01:23:30.74 | Mike Kelly | I said, |
| 01:23:32.85 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 01:23:33.69 | Linda Pfeifer | Bye. |
| 01:23:35.26 | Vicki Nichols | I said, I said, the survey |
| 01:23:37.96 | Susan Rowe | THE FAMILY IS |
| 01:23:38.20 | Mike Kelly | Absolutely. |
| 01:23:38.72 | Susan Rowe | and that we |
| 01:23:40.02 | Carolyn Ford | The Press. |
| 01:23:40.75 | Susan Rowe | Thank you. |
| 01:23:49.35 | Linda Pfeifer | I don't know. Thank you. |
| 01:23:52.97 | Mary Richardson | you . |
| 01:23:55.06 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 01:23:55.43 | Mary Richardson | Thank you. |
| 01:23:55.51 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 01:23:55.53 | Mary Richardson | Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. |
| 01:23:58.20 | Herb Weiner | move forward. Thank you. |
| 01:23:58.92 | Mary Richardson | Thank you. |
| 01:23:58.94 | Herb Weiner | Okay. |
| 01:23:59.11 | Unknown | Okay. |
| 01:24:09.81 | Herb Weiner | Okay, welcome to the Tuesday, June 21st, 2011 meeting. At this time here, roll call, please. |
| 01:24:24.44 | Unknown | Council member Fiverr? |
| 01:24:26.19 | Linda Pfeifer | HERE. |
| 01:24:26.56 | Unknown | Thank you. Councilmember Leon. |
| 01:24:28.45 | Jonathan Leone | Here. |
| 01:24:29.10 | Unknown | Council member Ford? Here. Vice mayor Kelly? |
| 01:24:31.95 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 01:24:32.03 | Unknown | Thank you. Merit. Why are you? |
| 01:24:34.58 | Herb Weiner | You can call me Weena too, it's okay. Okay, Pledge of Allegiance. Thank you. John Luna. Lead us in the pledge, please. |
| 01:24:48.77 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah. |
| 01:24:48.79 | Jim Irving | Good night. by the United States of America. to the Republic. which it stands. one nation, and I'm in God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. |
| 01:24:57.90 | Herb Weiner | about with liberty and justice for us. Okay, thank you, John. Um... This time here I'd like to have the approval of the agenda. some of Thank you. Okay. |
| 01:25:11.30 | Carolyn Ford | Seconds. |
| 01:25:12.50 | Herb Weiner | All in favor? Aye. Aye. |
| 01:25:13.48 | Carolyn Ford | I... |
| 01:25:14.05 | Unknown | I'm sorry. |
| 01:25:15.33 | Herb Weiner | Okay, this time here we have two special presentations. Susan Rowe is here. talk about society. Thank you. |
| 01:25:30.54 | Mary Richardson | Thank you. |
| 01:25:30.55 | Susan Rowe | I just want to let you know, first of all, I'm honored to be here on behalf of Sausalito's Sakai Day Japan Sister City program. |
| 01:25:32.23 | Herb Weiner | Hehehe. |
| 01:25:32.68 | Linda Pfeifer | That's amazing. |
| 01:25:42.59 | Susan Rowe | When we went out in January of this year, we thought it would be no problem They have 10 or 15 students. from Sausalito and Marin County to go to Japan. And then March 11 happened. and the country was devastated. And there weren't any children who signed up. She go to Japan. So we started recruiting. And we're pretty good at that. And we put our committee together. And we dug very deep. and we found seven. extraordinary students. to go this year. As a result of the country and its devastation, This year, some of the families, really had difficulty with the economic support that they needed to send their kid to Japan So once again, we went before the Rotary, which is Thursday next, our Lions and several other organizations here in town. We went out for a grant from the Arts Festival. and through private funding, We managed. to sustain everyone and meet their financial needs So every student could have an opportunity THIS YEAR, to experience Japan. There's a committee of two ladies I'd like to acknowledge. Dina Hatchell and Edie Gilbreth, who did the recruiting, they did the in-house interviews with every family So we dug down deep, we did background checks, we have financial documents, and now for the first time in three and a half years, This program is well-funded financially sound, and I am extremely proud of the progress we've made in a short period of time. I think most of you know the program has been in existence for a very, very long time. There's representation right there on the wall. of our wonderful city of Sakaide in Japan. And this year, we're honored to have the mayor as part of either the adult or the child's delegation. |
| 01:27:49.49 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah. Oh. |
| 01:27:51.49 | Susan Rowe | not sure, Mike Kelly, who will be joining us, which is terrific, because he will have extensive meetings with the city of Sakaide on urban planning and development, because as in every city, they have been touched just like we have by the financial downturn. |
| 01:27:51.83 | Linda Pfeifer | Sure. you |
| 01:27:52.84 | Unknown | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 01:28:07.73 | Susan Rowe | And it's been very difficult for them with their industry to stay afloat. So we are doing them a favor in some respects by showing our support this year. on behalf of the City of Sausalito And this program, And we're going in full force on July 29. Here, August 10. Seven students, two chaperones, one of which is a first grade teacher at Willow Creek Academy. and she's an art teacher. And the other one is Dina Hatchell, who works on our committee, and has done extensive volunteer work. I'll pass. Council has some kind of people who are here. Thank you. |
| 01:28:48.97 | Susan Rowe | We have a lot of money. All right. After we get that funding to the students, we're not gonna have so much money in the bank. But this year, My husband, Tom Clark, was also on the board, and I decided we would take a booth at the Sausalito Arts Festival and we will be serving udon noodles from the perfect here in Japan where we are going. and we will, Yoshi Tomei, who's an ambassador, will also be helping us out. So we rely on community support, individual contributions, City of Sausalito contributions, Park and Rec contributions, individual contributions, however you want to give. And when they come here next year, if you'd like to open up your home and take a student or two, we'd be happy to honor that as well. And it will change your life because it is certainly changed minds. Thank you, City of Sausalito. And if you want further information, please look at our website. You'll see the students that will be going, the dates of our trip, and some of the activities planned. And if you'd like to write a check, we would love it. Thank you. Any questions? |
| 01:29:55.74 | Erin Stroud | Thank you. No question. |
| 01:29:57.74 | Herb Weiner | No, but thank you very much, Susan, because you've done an excellent job on that program. |
| 01:29:57.82 | Susan Rowe | Thank you. Thank you very much, Susan. |
| 01:29:59.81 | Erin Stroud | Thank you. |
| 01:30:06.55 | Herb Weiner | At this time here, presentation of a certificate to uh, Johnston, Melbostad. And could I have Jennifer, Chief Jennifer Tejada come up please. |
| 01:30:21.56 | Jennifer Tejada | Good evening, Mayor and City Council members. It's my honor this evening to acknowledge the actions of one of our most involved citizens, Johnston Milbissett. And the reason for this is shortly after I came here, I learned of some actions that he took at an incident downtown. And I'll read you the letter that we wrote to him. It said, the Sausalito Police Department would like to commend you for your actions on January 12, 2011. After observing an oil spill at Bridgeway and Easterby, your quick action of notifying bicyclists and motorcyclists of the potential hazard and attempting to mitigate the effects of the oil spill with newspaper found at a bus stop greatly aided the city of Sausalito Department of Public Works with the call out of employees and eventual clean up of the spill. Also appreciated was your ability to communicate the magnitude and extent of the hazard to responding city personnel. Your dedication to this community and to the environments are commendable and I would like to personally thank you for helping out our city and I have for you A citizen appreciation recognition certificate from the city of Sausalito. |
| 01:31:30.82 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:31:39.46 | Johnston Melbostad | It's an honor. Jonathan has a question. Thank you. It's an honor. Thank you. |
| 01:31:44.82 | Jonathon Goldman | Before I give Mr. Melbostad an opportunity to respond to that citation, I'd like to add a certificate of merit from the Department of Public Works. Certificate presented to Johnston Melbostad for meritorious service to the people and city of Sausalito in taking decisive action to protect bicyclists and motorcyclists when confronted by a hazardous road condition. |
| 01:32:09.24 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. Bye. Thank you. Thank you. |
| 01:32:14.81 | Johnston Melbostad | Thank you. |
| 01:32:14.83 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:32:14.93 | Johnston Melbostad | Thank you. |
| 01:32:14.95 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:32:14.96 | Johnston Melbostad | you |
| 01:32:15.05 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:32:15.15 | Johnston Melbostad | you |
| 01:32:15.34 | Linda Pfeifer | All right. |
| 01:32:15.62 | Johnston Melbostad | Thank you. Am I supposed to speak now? You're welcome. |
| 01:32:20.97 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:32:21.09 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 01:32:22.32 | Johnston Melbostad | I hope that's the only citation I get from the police department. No. |
| 01:32:25.44 | Linda Pfeifer | Oh my God. |
| 01:32:27.45 | Johnston Melbostad | how many tickets is this work you have to find out |
| 01:32:28.85 | Herb Weiner | I'm not. |
| 01:32:29.12 | Linda Pfeifer | I'm sorry. No, no, I don't intend to. |
| 01:32:35.79 | Johnston Melbostad | It's a great place to live. It's an honor to serve in any way I can. And I figured it was just what you do when you live in your hometown. Yeah, yeah. You know? More people should do it. Whatever. Thank you for doing it. |
| 01:32:48.46 | Herb Weiner | I'm not. |
| 01:32:54.20 | Herb Weiner | Okay. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Oh, shit. At this time here, there's an announcement of the Grand Marshal for the Fourth of July Parade. Aaron? Stroud? Oh, look at this. |
| 01:33:15.36 | Linda Pfeifer | you Bye. you |
| 01:33:16.78 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 01:33:21.92 | Herb Weiner | My hat's off to you. Go ahead. Yeah. |
| 01:33:26.07 | Jonathan Leone | Bye. |
| 01:33:26.12 | Herb Weiner | I'm not going to go. |
| 01:33:27.36 | Jonathan Leone | Adam, you've got to get this on camera. You've got the camera pointed the wrong way. There you go. |
| 01:33:28.03 | Herb Weiner | to get to see. THE BEST. |
| 01:33:29.13 | Linda Pfeifer | it's a very important the wrong way |
| 01:33:32.22 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:33:32.54 | Linda Pfeifer | you |
| 01:33:33.18 | Erin Stroud | So good evening, Mayor Weiner and City Council. My name is Erin Stroud, and I'm the Special Event Coordinator here at the City of Sausalito. And it is my pleasure to be the one making the official announcement of the 2011 Fourth of July, Grand Marshall. who will also then be leading our annual 4th of July parade. Uh, just to explain a little bit about the history of the Grand Marshal, the Grand Marshal's is done by the Park and Rec Commission, and it's to recognize an individual who has been a leader and someone who has been committed to contributing to the Sausalito community. Past grand marshals that we have, former mayor Amy Belser, Um, Chris Gallagher, park manager at the Bay Model, and we even have one tonight, Susan Rowe. Um... So this year's Grand Marshal |
| 01:34:32.90 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:34:32.92 | Herb Weiner | It is. |
| 01:34:33.17 | Erin Stroud | is a long time resident of Sausalito. |
| 01:34:33.42 | Linda Pfeifer | Oh, yeah. |
| 01:34:36.65 | Herb Weiner | A little drum roll. |
| 01:34:38.06 | Erin Stroud | Has a great fondness. It's long. They have a great fondness and appreciation for our culture and history. And they have been with the city of Sausalito for 32 years. First as a young reference librarian in 1979. |
| 01:34:55.95 | Herb Weiner | Throw the book at him. |
| 01:34:59.39 | Erin Stroud | and then as the city librarian starting in 1985. Since that time, the library has seen a lot of changes And this year's Grand Marshal has worked closely with several mayors, city managers, and council members to meet the needs of the citizens of Sausalito. They were one of the first founding members of Marinnet. a consortium of local libraries that allow Saucelito residents access to a vast shared collection. They have worked tirelessly with the Library Foundation and the Friends of the Sausalito Library to help maintain important services and programs. They have advocated for the library book budget in financially lean years, and is proud to have been part of the Centennial Fund a critical fundraising effort by the Friends of Sausalito community. They have also played a key role in the development of long-range strategic plan that includes more focus on young families, easier access to information, improved technology, and an enhanced space for all patrons. Under this year's Grand Marshals leadership, the library has become a treasured resource that reflects the eccentric and sophisticated Spirit. That is Sausalito. and that is why you mary richardson |
| 01:36:33.42 | Unknown | as you feel as grand marshal. |
| 01:36:38.10 | Mary Richardson | I'm truly honored and shocked I guess I can't go out of town for the fourth of the last. |
| 01:36:41.49 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:36:45.57 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:36:50.36 | Herb Weiner | Congratulations, Mary. You deserve it. |
| 01:36:53.91 | Mary Richardson | Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. |
| 01:36:59.05 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. Thank you. Okay, at this time here, is there anybody that would like to speak on any items that are not on the agenda this evening? Would they like to come up and speak, please? All right, seeing none, then we'll just move on. Looking out again, okay. I'd like to move on the approval of the minutes of the council meeting on June 7th, 2011. So moved. Second. |
| 01:37:27.42 | Linda Pfeifer | Second. |
| 01:37:28.43 | Herb Weiner | All in favor? |
| 01:37:29.40 | Linda Pfeifer | Bye. Bye. |
| 01:37:30.20 | Herb Weiner | Opposed? No. Okay. At this time here, move up to the consent calendar. Any items on the consent calendar that people want to remove the items? |
| 01:37:44.97 | Linda Pfeifer | Mr. Mayor, I would like to remove or pull item 4D. I know it's been continued to July 12th. This is the approval of the housing element workshop agenda. But July 12th is just two weeks before the housing element workshop. And the city staff has suggested affordable housing at MLK and Valhalla and overlay zones and neighborhoods that I think would be beneficial for the council to weigh in on. |
| 01:37:47.01 | Herb Weiner | Yes. |
| 01:38:12.39 | Linda Pfeifer | before that went forward in the workshop. And for that reason, I am requesting that we pull 4D. |
| 01:38:18.81 | Jonathan Leone | Bye. |
| 01:38:19.01 | Mary Richardson | Thank you. |
| 01:38:19.02 | Jonathan Leone | I don't... Sure. |
| 01:38:21.23 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:38:21.49 | Jonathan Leone | you |
| 01:38:21.54 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:38:21.94 | Jonathan Leone | There's nothing in the packet to comment on. |
| 01:38:23.50 | Linda Pfeifer | Tomorrow. |
| 01:38:24.39 | Jonathan Leone | you |
| 01:38:24.44 | Jim Irving | We'll run. |
| 01:38:24.74 | Jonathan Leone | Like, |
| 01:38:25.05 | Jim Irving | Um, what, what, what? |
| 01:38:25.15 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 01:38:25.98 | Jim Irving | I'm not sure. |
| 01:38:26.70 | Jonathan Leone | I'm |
| 01:38:27.21 | Linda Pfeifer | We know that MLK, Valhalla, Marinship, |
| 01:38:27.34 | Jim Irving | Thank you. |
| 01:38:32.24 | Linda Pfeifer | are all listed as options for consideration for affordable housing and are of great concern residences and so it might be, it would be worthy for the council to weigh in on that prior to the workshop and to provide guidance to the housing element task force as well. |
| 01:38:42.02 | Linda Pfeifer | you |
| 01:38:42.06 | Mary Richardson | and |
| 01:38:53.94 | Herb Weiner | Vice Mayor Kelly. |
| 01:38:56.69 | Mike Kelly | uh... The work of the committee should proceed. |
| 01:39:01.26 | Herb Weiner | the task force. |
| 01:39:02.04 | Mike Kelly | task force, I'm sorry, should proceed. And I just think we should continue to the 12th, and we can make the decision on the 12th if we feel that we don't want to have a hearing or we don't want to have the public meeting. But let's allow the committee to come back with their agenda and their material for us to review, and it can be in the 12th packet. Thank you. |
| 01:39:21.46 | Carolyn Ford | Um, Mr. May. |
| 01:39:21.98 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 01:39:22.15 | Herb Weiner | Mr. Miller. |
| 01:39:22.76 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 01:39:22.91 | Herb Weiner | Yeah. |
| 01:39:22.93 | Mike Kelly | you |
| 01:39:24.38 | Carolyn Ford | I should I would think that the council would want to give the task force some guidance on this because I really do not believe we should be looking at housing in our Marin ship or at MLK. And those two should be off the books. There's nothing to it. |
| 01:39:46.64 | Herb Weiner | Let me address you first. Vice Mayor Kelly, go ahead. |
| 01:39:46.66 | Mike Kelly | Let me give a guidance. |
| 01:39:50.89 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 01:39:50.99 | Mike Kelly | nothing to give guidance on, so we can give our fears guidance, but let's see a piece of paper and we can talk about it. |
| 01:39:57.42 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 01:39:57.51 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:39:57.56 | Jonathan Leone | Okay. Council Member Leon. Are we getting too far off the track here? |
| 01:39:58.03 | Mike Kelly | I'm married. |
| 01:40:02.62 | Jonathan Leone | in terms of discussion versus pulling it |
| 01:40:04.19 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 01:40:04.21 | Mary Wagner | I think they- |
| 01:40:04.80 | Mike Kelly | I'm sorry. |
| 01:40:04.81 | Mary Wagner | Sure. Thank you. Yeah, the question is whether you want to pull it or not. So if you want to discuss whether you're pulling it or not, that's fine. |
| 01:40:09.17 | Jonathan Leone | internet, that's fine. |
| 01:40:10.40 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:40:10.70 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 01:40:10.79 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 01:40:10.89 | Mike Kelly | All this says is continuing until the 12th of July. |
| 01:40:14.38 | Linda Pfeifer | Mr. Mayor, if I may respond. The problem is that the two things for the council to weigh in on include guidance to the housing task force with respect to marinship and NLK, should they even be |
| 01:40:16.02 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 01:40:16.04 | Unknown | What's your number five? Thank you. |
| 01:40:29.25 | Linda Pfeifer | on the list of options for consideration. We don't need a document to discuss that. And the other reason to pull the item is because there have been many residents concerned with the timing of the workshop being in July during the summertime when a lot of people are out of town. So that, again, if we continue it to July 12th, that's only two weeks before the workshop, and it's past the time that the Housing Task Force has met. |
| 01:40:56.57 | Adam Politzer | Mr. Mayor, if I may. Yes. The reason why this item's on the agenda and there's a staff report that |
| 01:40:58.48 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah. |
| 01:40:58.49 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:41:02.46 | Adam Politzer | tries to clearly state why it's on the agenda not to open up all of this discussion but at the It was directed to bring this item to the task force to the committee. and have them I weigh in based on the public comment that was heard at the last council meeting But the problem is that the task force next meeting is not until next Monday night. So there wasn't a meeting between the last council meeting and tonight, for the task force to continue. as staff was just wanting to bring to the council's attention the reason why this item is not packed before you is because the task force has not had the opportunity to weigh in based on the public comment that was provided at the last council meeting. |
| 01:41:45.35 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. This question is also |
| 01:41:48.11 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 01:41:48.12 | Adam Politzer | All right. |
| 01:41:48.36 | Herb Weiner | member of Leon. |
| 01:41:49.69 | Jonathan Leone | or anybody, have we started to advertise the meeting date yet in July, the 28th or whatever? 20, whenever the beginning is. |
| 01:42:02.18 | Jeremy Graves | Councilman Leon, yes, we have begun to post save the date flyers and distribute those. We did that because the Housing Element Task Force wanted early notification of this beginning in the April timeframe. They wanted to make sure that people had plenty of advance notice of it. So in April, I believe it was at the April meeting, the task force identified the date, and so staff began moving on that, or began moving on. of advance notice of it. So in April, I believe it was at the April meeting, the task force identified the date, and so staff began moving on that in the late May timeframe. |
| 01:42:36.81 | Carolyn Ford | And yes, and it was published in the Marine Scope, at least online. |
| 01:42:43.24 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 01:42:43.25 | Linda Pfeifer | Bye. |
| 01:42:43.29 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 01:42:43.32 | Linda Pfeifer | you |
| 01:42:43.37 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 01:42:43.39 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 01:42:43.42 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 01:42:43.46 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:42:44.59 | Linda Pfeifer | And Mr. Mayor, I may? Member Michael. This council majority has stated in the past that they wanted to provide council guidance to the task force. And it seems to me that if there is concern with respect to listing MLK and the Marinship |
| 01:42:46.41 | Unknown | . |
| 01:42:46.44 | Linda Pfeifer | I don't remember. |
| 01:43:02.46 | Linda Pfeifer | and the historic Valhalla. On... the options list for consideration that this council, now is the time to weigh in and provide that guidance to the task force. |
| 01:43:14.59 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 01:43:15.15 | Jonathan Leone | Talks with my money home? Personally, I've not seen |
| 01:43:15.20 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:43:15.25 | Jim Irving | I'm not sure if somebody's on the own. |
| 01:43:18.25 | Jonathan Leone | whatever document you're all referring to that asks for these things and what form they take, so I can't comment on them. you have been on this task force which has not presented this to the council as a formal document. So I can't, I mean first you're correct, maybe you're not. I don't know if there are overlays, I don't know if there are bonus incentives that are incorporated in this to know what the implications thereof would be. So I don't know, I have not. |
| 01:43:29.61 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 01:43:29.63 | Linda Pfeifer | All right. |
| 01:43:31.95 | Mike Kelly | Maybe you're correct, maybe you're not. |
| 01:43:45.73 | Jonathan Leone | So I can't give direction until I see what it is. I don't think anybody's proposing housing in MLK or in the municipate at the moment. |
| 01:43:48.73 | Herb Weiner | It is. |
| 01:43:49.64 | Linda Pfeifer | you |
| 01:43:49.67 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 01:43:53.45 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 01:43:53.47 | Mike Kelly | friendship at the moment. |
| 01:43:54.69 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 01:43:55.77 | Jonathan Leone | the Vice Mayor Kelly. |
| 01:43:56.83 | Mike Kelly | All we're asking for is to continue this to the 12th and have a report come back to the council on the 12th. That's all. Plain and simple. And it's impossible for any of us to sit up here and make a recommendation on thin air. So let's see what they come up with. |
| 01:44:13.03 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 01:44:13.11 | Mike Kelly | That's the purpose of the committee. |
| 01:44:13.16 | Carolyn Ford | That's good. |
| 01:44:14.80 | Mike Kelly | Council Member Foro-Eye. I'm the Student Task Force. |
| 01:44:15.20 | Carolyn Ford | I'm just asking. But the task force was appointed by the council, and I do believe that we can give them direction because I don't want to see a report here. In a couple of weeks, it says that MLK and the marine ship are listed as overlay zones and I think that we need to go forward and say that and get it out there to the task force so that that's not part of it. It goes against Sausalito zoning. And it's a serious thing that the Council needs to give direction on. |
| 01:44:52.95 | Linda Pfeifer | Mr. There you. Mr. Mayor. |
| 01:44:55.81 | Herb Weiner | Council member Feiffer. |
| 01:44:57.09 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. In a way, it's not even to, I agree with Council Member Ford that in a way we don't even need something from staff. We could just... you know, provide guidance to the Housing Element Task Force that we do not want to see MLK or the Marinship or the Valhalla on an options list for consideration for affordable housing. or overlay zones on neighborhoods. We could weigh in on that. We don't need to have a specific document from staff. We can weigh in on that. |
| 01:45:32.66 | Herb Weiner | Councilmember Leon. Council Member Kelly? |
| 01:45:36.93 | Mike Kelly | I move that we have this come back to us on the 12th and debate it at that point. |
| 01:45:45.17 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 01:45:45.18 | Carolyn Ford | All right, well, then I guess we... I I would like to amend that motion Mr. Mayor. I'm too. And I think. |
| 01:45:52.62 | Jim Irving | And I'll second. you |
| 01:45:57.92 | Carolyn Ford | I would like to amend it by saying that yes, let's bring it back and have a discussion on the 12th, but let's further give the task force Direction. to not bring MLK or or the marine ship. As... an overlay zone for housing. What? |
| 01:46:23.02 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. Council Member Leon, go ahead. |
| 01:46:25.55 | Jonathan Leone | I just don't know what you're talking about, frankly, because unless you're privy to documents I don't have, then I don't know what you're referring to. So at the end of the day, you're going to get a chance to talk about it on the 12th. we'll see what is being proposed by the residents sitting on a task force. |
| 01:46:45.55 | Linda Pfeifer | So, yeah. |
| 01:46:46.24 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. So we'll see what they come back with. I'm not in favor of housing in either of those zones, yet alone you'd have to change the zoning to accomplish that. But I'm not sure what the how this is mixed into the overall proposal. So I'd like to chance to see it before I comment on it and let them state what their proposal is and what's debated in full at that time. And we can always cancel the meeting if we can't agree on an agenda. |
| 01:47:11.35 | Linda Pfeifer | I second the amendments. |
| 01:47:11.43 | Mike Kelly | I said, |
| 01:47:13.73 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 01:47:13.74 | Herb Weiner | Okay. |
| 01:47:13.76 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 01:47:13.79 | Mike Kelly | I'll call a question on the first move, the second move, or the second move, |
| 01:47:16.78 | Herb Weiner | OK, second on the second motion to take this off. |
| 01:47:21.52 | Jonathan Leone | Call the question on the amendment. |
| 01:47:22.77 | Mike Kelly | The second. Thank you. |
| 01:47:23.90 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. Well, |
| 01:47:24.43 | Mike Kelly | What? The amendment. I'll press it on the amendment first. |
| 01:47:25.03 | Linda Pfeifer | Amen. |
| 01:47:25.37 | Jonathan Leone | Bye. |
| 01:47:25.40 | Linda Pfeifer | Bye. |
| 01:47:25.44 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 01:47:25.51 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:47:25.59 | Jonathan Leone | Amen. |
| 01:47:28.91 | Linda Pfeifer | the amendment, we vote on that first. |
| 01:47:30.03 | Carolyn Ford | Yes, you call the question on the amended motion, which was to I can restate it, bring it back on the 12th for council's full. but in the meantime give guidance to the task force to remove if they are considering it, MLK, and the Marin ship from any overlay zone, housing overlay zone. I second. |
| 01:47:56.23 | Linda Pfeifer | Bye. |
| 01:47:56.25 | Herb Weiner | Yes. All right. All right, all in favor? |
| 01:48:01.60 | Linda Pfeifer | I... |
| 01:48:01.82 | Linda Pfeifer | Aye. |
| 01:48:03.29 | Herb Weiner | Opposed? No. |
| 01:48:04.00 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. know. Oh, so just can we just change council member of New |
| 01:48:06.07 | Herb Weiner | So, can you? |
| 01:48:06.55 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 01:48:09.41 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 01:48:09.43 | Jonathan Leone | Council Member Leon. Why should we just continue this item as was proposed in the staff report to the 12th? |
| 01:48:15.49 | Linda Pfeifer | That's all. |
| 01:48:16.08 | Jonathan Leone | Yeah, that's all that is. |
| 01:48:16.13 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah, they're just |
| 01:48:17.02 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 01:48:17.28 | Linda Pfeifer | you |
| 01:48:17.92 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 01:48:18.04 | Jonathan Leone | So we have a full staff report so we understand what the proposals from the task force are so we can debate their merits. that claim there's no approval of anything at this moment in time |
| 01:48:26.07 | Herb Weiner | Yeah, play a memory. |
| 01:48:26.78 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah. |
| 01:48:26.80 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. at this moment in time. |
| 01:48:29.61 | Mike Kelly | I'm sorry. Thank you. |
| 01:48:29.73 | Jonathan Leone | you Thank you. |
| 01:48:30.10 | Mike Kelly | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 01:48:30.73 | Herb Weiner | Okay, all in favor. |
| 01:48:32.62 | Mike Kelly | Hi. |
| 01:48:33.06 | Herb Weiner | you Do you understand what Mary? Just, just. Okay. All right. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Opposed? No. Okay. |
| 01:48:35.99 | Jim Irving | Okay. |
| 01:48:37.10 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. Bye. No. |
| 01:48:42.35 | Jonathan Leone | Now, do we, can I? |
| 01:48:43.31 | Linda Pfeifer | I'll make the time so it's moving. |
| 01:48:44.99 | Jonathan Leone | Move the approval of the consent calendar items A through C and E through F since you already approved item D. Thank you. |
| 01:48:55.47 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 01:48:55.55 | Jonathan Leone | Second. |
| 01:48:56.97 | Herb Weiner | All in favor? Aye. Opposed? |
| 01:48:58.27 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 01:48:58.28 | Unknown | I'm too. |
| 01:49:00.78 | Herb Weiner | Okay, thank you. All right, let's go on to our business items. Okay, Charlie, this is the adopting 2011-2000 budget and related resolutions. |
| 01:49:20.76 | Charlie Francis | Good evening, Mr. Mayor, members of the City Council, citizens. There's some draft budget copies here for the audience, if somebody hasn't already grabbed them yet. And distributed with your packet and in your mailboxes were the draft budget also. Tonight is your opportunity to adopt the fiscal year 2011-12 budget. And there's six accompanying motions that are going on to enact that budget. First we'll walk through some key areas of the budget. We'll have the department heads give brief, hopefully two-minute descriptions of key activities that they're proposing to accomplish during the fiscal year 2011-12. And then I'll wrap it up by entertaining questions, having discussion, and then walking through the motions with you and what all the motions mean. So the first inserted in your budget was a budget message. This is different than the staff report. The budget message is on page 9 of your budgets, and it talks about that the total budget is $23,839,151 for all the funds and account groups, and that the general fund, which is the city's most important fund in terms of delivering services, is $14,611,802. It meets all the requirements of the city as bonds issues, approved union contracts, complies with state law. And just to mention that the economy has had a significant impact on many cities in Marin and in California that that the relatively stable economic tax base as well as the decisions that have gone up in place up to this point of time have allowed us to present a balanced budget. The city council's priorities that have emanated from your priority calendar in the past month and the council's strategic plan are included in the budget. And it was a reflection of many, many meetings between staff and the city manager, between staff city manager and the city finance committee, and a presentation, your last council meeting to the full city council. It reflects back to the basics budgeting. We propose a budget that includes 87.57 full-time employees. You might ask, where is the.57 employee? It's in the library. And that's just how the number of hours works out for that particular employee. Again, this is the second year of the city's two-year labor agreements. They called for no increases and no takeaways. And it provides level of service consistent with the current fiscal year, excellent and effective and efficient service delivery. We have significant capital infrastructure investment, and it meets the city's strategic plan goals. Um, Some unique things about this year's budget is the city fully funded the book budget to $79,000, restoring it to its 2003-04 level of contribution. And the city is extremely appreciative to the Friends of the Library for their subsidy over the past few years of providing the book budget to the Library. The Friends have not stopped. They are providing additional children's librarian services in the amount of $6,850 for the next fiscal year. Um, The budget anticipates funding the public safety police services despite losing $100,000 state budget for the community oriented police services, the COPS grant. And the Recreation Department is eliminating the Caledonia Street Fair from its scheduled planned events. The corresponding revenues were also decreased. The, let's see. Capital projects, just appropriating new money for capital projects at $3,972,085. But the total two-year budget between last year and this year is $12,895,000 of appropriations for capital projects. Significant investment in the city's streets, sewers, bulkhead, waterfront, tidelands area, and storm drains. So we sort of saw Solito's economic stimulus program here too. And so I'm looking forward to final thoughts. You know, we... We're committed to excellence. We're committed to a budget of what if and why not, looking for new ways of doing things. And we do that because of your leadership. And we're continuing on the path to make it structurally balanced through the discussions we had earlier this evening on the fire, I guess we should call it annexation and consolidation. We've been a little bit loose on our terms. And I want to be a special thank you to you, City Council, for your fiscal stewardship. A picture of our graphs, the general fund being $14,612,000, our enterprise funds, and our expenditures match that. We have a balanced budget. For our citizens, this budget answers the question, what is the general fund? How is it balanced? What does it mean to me in terms of reserves? We went over all this at your last council meeting. And I think that's a good thing. But in terms of the level of service, what services will I get? We're going to focus our next... A few minutes on. All right. the general fund is the city's operating fund it's where we provide our core services and also is where we provide for reserves in case there are any revenue disruptions or economic disruptions uh... it meets the requirements that we have by state law to have an approved budget before Any money spent, wish the state had an approval like that, a requirement like that. |
| 01:55:15.59 | Unknown | that since June 15th was the |
| 01:55:16.32 | Charlie Francis | since June 15th was the deadline to stop their budget and they missed it. what, five times in the last 15 years. And the timeframe for our budget is a one-year perspective. Although we have a two-year resource allocation plan, we adopt one-year budget at a time. extensive planning process, and everything ties back to our strategic plan. So with that, our general fund is a balance of taxes, which consists of mostly inelastic taxes from property taxes and some elastic taxes that go up and down depending on the community of sales tax and transient occupancy tax. And then fees provide most of our other financing sources would be transfers coming in primarily from the parking fund. we allocate those fifty two percent go for public safety and then the other departments have those percentages of their budget allocated so pretty much our property tax base for our public safety our other services are paid for by transfers in from from other funds as well as fees that we charge for the services that we're allowed to charge fees for. And remember, in the state of California, we can only charge fees up to the cost of providing those services. There's one other... I'd like to point out on revenues. Our intergovernmental revenues have shrunk this year over the previous year. We usually budget around $80,000 a year because the state of California is mandated by the Constitution to reimburse costs that the city incurs. uh, every year. the legislature does not appropriate those costs and the city of Sausalito is owed over eight hundred fifty thousand dollars from the state of California for costs that they're mandated to reimburse us for. That's significant and that's just for the city of Sausalito. Imagine what that obligation is statewide. Our revenues have been trending. and stabilizing so clearly a reflection are in a less are elastic taxes are reflecting the economy and our expenditures are stabilized right at the same level and again not part of that reason is because the fire services a subsidy our revenues and expenses have had surpluses are over the prior years but we finally reached the point where our revenues and expenses are balanced now there isn't any excess revenues over expenses and By implementing our medium term fiscal strategies, we'll be able to become structurally balanced in the future. Okay, first department, I get the lead off and I'll keep it under two minutes. City manager is the head of this department. Adam, you got two minutes? Okay, he didn't like that. |
| 01:58:14.23 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 01:58:14.55 | Charlie Francis | Yeah. |
| 01:58:14.57 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:58:14.59 | Charlie Francis | He didn't like that joke. |
| 01:58:14.72 | Linda Pfeifer | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 01:58:16.14 | Charlie Francis | Well, |
| 01:58:17.22 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:58:18.04 | Charlie Francis | If the residents have somebody to call, they don't call the finance guy because I just take care of the debits and credits. And as I mentioned in previous meetings, we have $110 million of debits and credits that we process every year with our three accounting technicians. If we piled those dollars up, they would go 11 miles into the sky. We are 87.57 employees are administered by one human resources technician. And then of course our assistant to city manager, city clerk handles all the tasks of what a city clerk is going to do. This is a bare bones administration and finance department putting out a tremendous amount of work and our goals for next year is to continue meeting the needs of servicing the other departments and servicing you, the city council. Next with another inter-service department, someone who serves the service providers, is our Internet Information Technology Department in RET. Come on up and and It's your opportunity to talk about your fiscal year 12 projects. |
| 01:59:29.97 | Charlie Francis | I had two years. |
| 01:59:32.19 | Unknown | I brought my own iPad. you Actually, it's your own iPad. But I'll get to that in a minute. As you know, the IT division is made up of two staff members, myself and Jeremy Holt. Rather than go through this in a linear fashion, since you've already got that to look at, talk a little bit about what these things are. And I might not make the two-minute timer so you can Get the hook ready if you need to. The most exciting thing about being in the IT biz today is that environmental concerns, economic strategies, and productivity gains are no longer mutually exclusive. They are actually merging. So rather than going with the status quo, we felt it was in the city's best interests for us to change things up a little bit. And so our proposals for this fiscal year are these, thin clients. For the 20 workstations we leased this fiscal year, we will ultimately pay $35,000 at $1,750 per workstation just to borrow them. That's still more affordable than buying them at full retail and paying for them outright. But we're proposing that instead of continuing to lease 25 workstations per year, representing one-third of our desktop force, we replace them with the purchase of 25 thin client devices this year and 25 more per year over the next three years. We'll still need to build a robust thin client infrastructure this year that will support the entire organization. But in three years, any upgrades will be to the core of the system alone and all of our, well, All of our workstations, with the exceptions of a couple laptops for management, will be done. So the per unit cost of thin clients with keyboards, mice, monitors, and all necessary licenses is about $1,200 less per workstation than full computers. Which leads me to tablet-based agendas and email. This is probably going to be the biggest change for you. Printing and assembling paper agendas uses up approximately 150 reams of paper per year and costs the city about $1,400 in staff time and supplies annually. By switching to iPads, |
| 02:01:42.18 | Unknown | as if you hadn't already seen one. By switching to iPads using the iLegislate app from Granicus, we can not only provide the City Council with wireless and paperless access to agendas, but we can also provide the Council with a single, consistent, and supportable solution for e-mail, as well as many other applications, including, as a future attraction, thin client workstations via remote access for those who want or need it. I also recommend Angry Birds. |
| 02:02:08.98 | Catherine Hilliard | you |
| 02:02:09.03 | Unknown | Bye. |
| 02:02:09.15 | Catherine Hilliard | Thank you. |
| 02:02:09.16 | Unknown | Thank you. If I may, I've got an iPad here already preloaded with, configured for a test council user, so you can look at the email. Okay. |
| 02:02:20.08 | Jim Irving | . you |
| 02:02:21.69 | Unknown | You see the shaking hand, no? Yes, no. |
| 02:02:24.62 | Jim Irving | Yes. |
| 02:02:25.03 | Herb Weiner | I'll give to her that serial test. It took me three years to learn the other one. Then I learned where the on button was. |
| 02:02:34.16 | Unknown | Well, this is just a big version of the same. |
| 02:02:35.86 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 02:02:39.86 | Unknown | So a quick assessment of iPads versus paper. iPads are made from recycled aluminum, free of all kinds of toxic things that are in competing products, and don't require the fossil fuels or biomass involved in producing paper and don't turn into methane when recycled in landfills. And Apple already has a recycling program in place for them. I've already seen the hook from Charlie. telling me that I've got to move things up and I've got quite a bit to cover. So if you have any questions, maybe that will help me direct the rest of my presentation. |
| 02:03:20.23 | Jonathan Leone | you |
| 02:03:20.27 | Unknown | Do we have any questions? |
| 02:03:21.93 | Jonathan Leone | the resources to do your job. |
| 02:03:24.09 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 02:03:24.76 | Jonathan Leone | You tell me. |
| 02:03:25.64 | Unknown | Nice. Thank you. So. |
| 02:03:30.35 | Charlie Francis | Thank you. |
| 02:03:30.37 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:03:30.65 | Herb Weiner | I might get used to that. Anyway, thank you, Professor. |
| 02:03:35.60 | Charlie Francis | Thank you, Rhett. Nice job. And now we move on to the Community Development Department to talk about planning division and the building inspection division. |
| 02:03:45.65 | Jeremy Graves | Thank you, Charlie. Jeremy Graves, your Community Development Director. So I would like to go over the top ten projects, plus one that we are looking at in the next six months. The first five are all projects oriented around historic issues, the first being your historic design guidelines. We're scheduling those for coming forward in front of the City Council in September, along with a minor zoning ordinance amendment. Currently, your Historic Landmarks Board and your Planning Commission are in the process of reviewing these. |
| 02:04:07.04 | Mike Kelly | fungus. |
| 02:04:18.51 | Jeremy Graves | The second item, also historically based, is the machine shop. We plan on initiating the process for the nomination of the machine shop building to the historic registers in the upcoming six months. The third is the MarinShip Historic Inventory. We'll be making a presentation with City Council on that next month. The fourth is the Plaza Vida and Del Mar. That's later on your agenda tonight, and we'll be moving forward to the Planning Commission following your action on that tonight. uh... the last historic items that store preservation regulations uh... we are in the early process of selecting a consultant for preparation of that. Moving on to other items that we're looking, bringing forward to you of course is the is the housing element with a workshop scheduled for July 16. And following that will be the analysis of the candidate sites and that is scheduled to conclude that discussion by the end of the summer. The America's Cup draft environmental impact report is due out. later this summer and so staff will be reviewing that for impacts upon Sausalito plus any additional information we might be able to garner out of that on what type of services we might be expected to provide or be ready to provide. Also, we have the economic development study that is under the review, or soon to be under the review of the Business Advisory Committee. We expect a public review of that to be released in August. We also have the Business Startup Guide, which was prepared by members of the Business Advisory Committee. They are finalizing this to incorporate collaboration releases that are coming out for the 2010 census. And then this document will undergo printing following that update for the 2010 census items. We also will be starting hearings on the building code update. That'll begin in the late summer. and early fall. And lastly, piggybacking on an item that your city attorney will be mentioning is the omnibus zoning ordinance update and the upcoming legislative committee review of that. So that concludes the items we have coming up in the next six months. I'm available for questions. |
| 02:06:43.25 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 02:06:45.64 | Jeremy Graves | Thank you. |
| 02:06:45.66 | Herb Weiner | Thank you Jeremy. Got any questions? Thank you. |
| 02:06:48.94 | Charlie Francis | Jeremy I point out on the on this presentation there's a page number in the lower right hand corner that corresponds with the page number in your budget books yourself and you'll find at the end of the general fund section a complete list of all the priority calendar items and how they where you can find them in the general fund budget |
| 02:07:08.81 | Mike Kelly | THE END OF |
| 02:07:14.57 | Charlie Francis | The non-departmental department is where we find funding for all of our community groups and committees. And I just wanted to report at this time that the historical society's request to fund their budget. I had a follow-up meeting with Larry Clinton a couple days after the council meeting last week, and we reduced his request to $4,800. It was what he needed so it's a he'll be instead of the five hundred dollars stipend a month it'd be the night the nine hundred dollars stipend month is included in this request as well as the the traditional five thousand dollar appropriation that goes to the Business Hospitality Commission Sister Cities program is funded through here the business hospitality, business advisory, volunteer recognition. And this is where we also provide funding for our retiree medical benefits and our city attorney and outside legal services, as well as our contracts for our audits. And we pay dues and insurance premiums. Oops. And the, Mary, did you have anything you wanted to add for the city attorney services? |
| 02:08:25.95 | Jonathan Leone | the city attorney budget at this meeting |
| 02:08:28.24 | Charlie Francis | Thank you. |
| 02:08:28.26 | Mary Richardson | I'm sorry. |
| 02:08:32.97 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 02:08:32.99 | Charlie Francis | okay uh... i've been sixty seven of your budget is the beginning of the police department Chief Jennifer. |
| 02:08:45.34 | Jennifer Tejada | Good evening again, Mayor and City Council members. Two minutes is going to be very difficult for me. But thank you for this opportunity. It's always important for us to share what we're doing. We do represent 32% of our budget, so it's significant and important for us to share. So as we move through into fiscal year 11-12, we're going to maintain core services and continue to look for ways to do projects. for cost sharing strategies in resources, equipment, and training, and in the service that we deliver. So up here we have some specific items that include Starting July 1st, we're going to implement monthly crime review meetings. It's also going to be a resource analysis meeting so that we can make sure that we're staying within our budgeted targets, as well as looking at quality of life issues around the city. It will greatly help me as a new person to the city to understand where things are happening and whether or not we have patterns and whether or not we need to move resources and personnel. As you may or may not know, since I came, I've been working on developing partnerships with the United States Army Corps of Engineers and the United States Coast Guard We have legal counsel looking at the MOU that we developed with the Coast Guard to provide additional training to our officers for waterfront enforcement and education. And then on the other side with the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, we've been very fortunate to have them offer to us sharing their equipment in a 27-foot lifeboat. and they have been training our officers in navigation, towing, and flying. other, phew, we just swallowed a flag. you Thank you. |
| 02:10:39.77 | Mike Kelly | you |
| 02:10:39.84 | Jennifer Tejada | Thank you. |
| 02:10:39.85 | Mike Kelly | Get 12th up there right now. |
| 02:10:39.89 | Jennifer Tejada | Thank you. Hmm, I get dinner too. |
| 02:10:43.40 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:10:44.12 | Jennifer Tejada | Thank you. So that's really important because up to this point, we don't have a presence on the water. And as your police chief, that's very important to me that we enhance quality of life issues on the water and beside the water and for our residents who use the parks along the water, for our businesses and for... the people on the water. So we're moving ahead with that and we will come back to you with more information on that at a later date. I want to continue to enhance our partnership with the schools and also with the business community. We're going to train more officers on bicycle patrol. It'll also, in addition to enhancing our police visibility, I think officers on bicycles are much more approachable, but it also reduces our carbon footprint. In addition to the officers, today we started training our parking enforcement officers on bicycles. We have one trained. It's a test, so we'll see if it works. If it's efficient, we'll continue to do it. If it's not, we will discontinue. So we're just looking for ways to be more efficient in our service delivery. Um, And so in closing, thank you for your support. We truly appreciate it. We will continue to enhance our service to the community and address quality of life issues. Thank you very much. Thank you. |
| 02:12:08.40 | Charlie Francis | Anybody have any questions? Any questions for Jennifer? |
| 02:12:11.70 | Herb Weiner | Anybody? Okay, thank you, Chief. |
| 02:12:14.59 | Charlie Francis | You're welcome. |
| 02:12:18.25 | Charlie Francis | The next budget is our fire department budget. We've talked about fire last meeting, this meeting, and just kind of note that the appropriation for this year is $3,268,312. |
| 02:12:24.31 | Mike Kelly | Bye. |
| 02:12:24.32 | Herb Weiner | together. |
| 02:12:24.60 | Mike Kelly | I'm not. |
| 02:12:33.29 | Paul (Public Commenter) | One second. |
| 02:12:43.90 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 02:12:44.86 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 02:12:45.01 | Charlie Francis | Thank you. Yeah, and this is on page 71 in your budget document. Your budget documents were placed in your mailboxes in the conference room. The Department of Public Works has two divisions, engineering and maintenance, and our director of public works, Jonathan Goldman. |
| 02:13:06.97 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you, Jonathan Goldman, your director of public works. I can't possibly say everything that I would like to in two minutes, so I won't try. I have the honor of leading a fascinating collection of individuals, some of whom have worked for the city for some time others are recent hires we are committed to team Sausalito and to the notion of back to basics what we will do in the next year is continue to do what we have been trying to do and will always continue to try to do better, less expensively, safer, more openly, and with more, taking more pride in what we do. That extends from the Ministry of Silly Walks here in City Hall to the Sewer Maintenance Division. And that's all I have to say. |
| 02:13:17.03 | Mary Richardson | I won't. |
| 02:14:14.64 | Herb Weiner | Any questions? Jonathan Goldman, thank you very, very much. |
| 02:14:19.28 | Charlie Francis | Next we have our Recreation Department, budget of $663,735. |
| 02:14:28.24 | Mike Kelly | Well, good evening. As Charlie just said, we have the recreation budget of $663,735. Over about 50% of that is offset by fee, so the total cost to the city is quite marginal compared to the high level of service we have. I did want to mention a couple things that we just completed. Just this afternoon, in fact, I completed an inspection by a representative from the state of California parks. And we just completed $113,000 in small projects throughout the city, including the facilities and the parks. Everything from new fixtures to the restroom to new insulated sound barrier windows in the gym. So hopefully the residents will be happier with that. A lot of little things, but it all adds up. In the next six months, we're going to continue the council-authorized small park and facility projects. That includes the new ceiling tiles in both the gym and the rec center, hopefully. You ask, why is that important? Well, we recently had a staff and murder sitting there and a ceiling tile fell down right behind them, and that's not something we want. Plus, it'll add to the installation of the building, make it quieter for the people in the library as well as the other departments upstairs. We're going to be working with the art festival to redo the tennis courts in the fall. They are paying for the complete resurfacing of that. That is important for you to note today because the MLK courts were resurfaced recently, and I would expect you may get questions, why didn't they do the marineship courts, And it's because we're going to wait until the fall after the art festival and get them done. We're also going to come back to you in July with a Phase 1 report on Robin Sweeney Park. This will include preliminary designs. We've been working quite closely with the architect from Carducci and Associates to go out and do a lot of outreach with the public, find out what they want to see in their park and just as important, what they don't want to see and what they want to see remain the same. We're working strongly on Harrison Park. I'm working with the Community Development Department right now to get the proper building permits to move forward with the fence, and then we will continue with the rest of the park, which the Planning Commission has approved. And, of course, as things move forward and we have time, we're going to keep going with the other parks, such as Casno, Langendorf. And then I do want to mention on Southview, working with the Public Works Department, we should have a geotechnical study done on Southview to determine the condition of the walls at the park and then what the next steps are for that park. I'm also working with the city administration department, and we are hearing the proposals from the community garden, and then going to come back at some time to council with a report on that. This is all the things that we're doing, kind of the extra things, but I do want to remind you that each quarter we produce over 100 classes downstairs in those three little rooms down there. We do over 40 events per year, and we continue to work with the Chamber, the Caledonia Merchants, Hospitality Committee, Women's Club, Rotary Club, Lions Club, and other organizations, just to name a few, to keep good recreation programs here in Sausalito at a minimal cost. |
| 02:17:39.64 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 02:17:39.67 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 02:17:39.75 | Mike Kelly | Thank you, Mike. Any questions? Thank you. |
| 02:17:42.81 | Herb Weiner | Okay. Thank you, Mike. |
| 02:17:44.65 | Charlie Francis | And concluding the department had presentations as our grand marshal for |
| 02:17:48.26 | Mary Richardson | Thank you. |
| 02:17:48.27 | Mike Kelly | laughter |
| 02:17:49.03 | Mary Richardson | . |
| 02:17:49.12 | Mike Kelly | Hat please. |
| 02:17:49.35 | Mary Richardson | Thank you. That would be the end. |
| 02:17:51.31 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:17:51.33 | Mary Richardson | laughter No. |
| 02:17:54.82 | Mary Richardson | i'll be short and sweet The only program and change I can guarantee in the next six months is that I will retire next month, and hopefully by the fall there will be a new city librarian in place. It's been my honor and pleasure to work with the fabulous staff and all of you. Thank you. And I'll see you all on the 4th. Thank you. |
| 02:18:15.46 | Mary Richardson | Yes. |
| 02:18:21.64 | Charlie Francis | you |
| 02:18:21.67 | Herb Weiner | Thank you, Mayor. |
| 02:18:22.14 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you, Mary. |
| 02:18:22.18 | Charlie Francis | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 02:18:22.83 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. so the uh... i'm pretty good i have a questions of mary |
| 02:18:24.83 | Charlie Francis | Thank you. |
| 02:18:24.88 | Herb Weiner | The Press page is 89. |
| 02:18:26.24 | Jim Irving | Thank you. |
| 02:18:26.28 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 02:18:26.31 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 02:18:27.54 | Jim Irving | I'm not. |
| 02:18:27.63 | Linda Pfeifer | Oh. |
| 02:18:28.28 | Jim Irving | I'm sorry. |
| 02:18:28.34 | Linda Pfeifer | I'm not. |
| 02:18:28.40 | Jim Irving | So, |
| 02:18:28.69 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 02:18:29.52 | Jonathan Leone | I just want to point one thing out on Mary's slide. is that you can feel confident that you left getting back in your budget where it was you know. almost eight, ten years ago. It doesn't allow for the growth of what you'd like to do, but you've battled hard to get the money back, to at least get your, I mean, just look where you've come and how hard you battled to get that money back. |
| 02:18:57.77 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you, Mary. |
| 02:19:03.77 | Charlie Francis | ok pages are eighty nine through ninety two of your staff of your budget are the priority projects and the reference to where they are who are there signed to or where they are And that's back to the basics for our service level departments. We've talked about the future enough. We also have a number of other funds. We have special revenue funds. The Tidelands Fund is where we collect money from our leases of all the underwater properties that were deeded to us by the state of California. And those revenues are restricted for construction, maintenance, and operations of Tidelands properties. The General Fund does provide some services to the Tidelands properties. And we transfer an equivalent amount of money that represents those services from the Tidelands into the General Fund as allowed by law. The traffic state and these, it's important to go through these distinguishing factors of each fund right now because it's going to tie back to the resolution that you'll be adopting. That's the GASB 54 resolution on what fund balances need to be restricted, committed, or assigned, or deemed unspendable. For these kinds of cases, there are legal restrictions on what the money can be spent for. So traffic safety are funded from restricted revenues that we get through vehicle code fines and we can only spend those on traffic safety capital projects or traffic safety maintenance. Gas taxes are collected from gas taxes that come from the state of California and they come to the city and they're totally restricted for construction or maintenance of the street system. Construction impact fees are fees that are assessed on new building construction within the city limits of the city of Sausalito. And there there has to be a nexus to the infill construction projects that the new building development that's occurring in Sausalito impacts the existing infrastructure. So we have to provide the nexus before we can use that money. The traffic congestion relief comes from Proposition 42, which was a statewide program that created bond money that went from the state down to the counties and finally as grants into the city for traffic congestion relief programs. And the county's measure A was a half-cent sales tax program that provided tax revenue for local transportation improvement projects. Storm drain, we have a storm drain fee that goes on to the property tax bill. We have not had a Prop 218 increase in over 10 years, I believe. These monies are restricted for maintenance of the city's storm drains, and primarily it goes to pay our dues in what's called Marin Storm Drain. projects. COP 1B is a special state of California fund for local transportation improvement projects. And as we apply for recreation grants, the money comes into this fund and then they're only spent on capital projects that are that the grant money is restricted for. All the recreation grants, you have to spend the money first in order to get it, but we don't spend the money until we get the grant authorization. We have four debt service funds. One is an energy loan program that will be paid in 2013. And these were for improvements that were conservation in nature. And we borrowed money in order to put those projects into place. And our debt service is $3,173 a year on that. The first bulkhead, not the bulkhead that we're replacing now, was funded through a 4.5%, $1.2 million loan through the Boats and Waterways Department of the State of California. And our debt service is $72,000. It's due every August 1st. And if you adopt this budget, I'll be able to make the August 1st payment. The 2006 general obligation bonds are the bonds of the bond payment for the public safety buildings so those debt service goes out to the year 8-1 of 2040. We'll be bringing to the city council, hopefully before I put the levy on the tax roll, the proposal on what to do with the excess construction money that was left over of bond funds from the public safety facility building. And finally, the Vehicle Code Overpayment Fund was established because of overpayments that the county made to the city of $247,000 over a number of years, from July 1999 to June 2006. We entered into an agreement to pay them back at a pretty low interest rate at $54,000 a year, and the last payment will be this year, November of 2011. then all those vehicle code over fine payments that are paying that now, because we subtract them out from find payments that we get to the city they'll all be able to go to the general fund again which will help our revenues in the future. We have two capital projects fund, the library capital project fund and our general capital projects. Mary's pleased to be able to say that the library capital improvement has a $200,000 project for what she calls the library makeover project. 100,000 of that money will be coming from the library foundation and the other 100,000 from revenues that have been built up in that fund from the state of California that can only be used for library projects, the library related project. And then our general capital project fund, we've talked about a lot in our last meeting, but basically we have a five-year CIP that's funded at $16 million, and these are the annual appropriations for that $16 million. We have four enterprise funds. Enterprise funds are funds whose fees and charges are meant to cover the full economic cost of providing the service. It's different than the full financial cost of providing the service. Economic cost means things depreciate, and we want to collect the fee to recover the depreciation. So the sewer fund is one where the fees that we charge are there to replace, to provide the money, the resources, so that we can service the sewer line as well as invest in the infrastructure that had been deferred for a while, all consistent with the rate study and the Prop 218 hearing that we went through two years ago now. Old City Hall has certificates of participation on their building. The debt service for enterprise funds is covered in the enterprise fund, because remember the fees that you charge are supposed to provide for the depreciation and the debt service that is occurring on there. And we issued COPs in 2003, those mature in 2012, this fiscal year, this year budget year and this is where we lease the lease proceeds cover that that service and also cover some maintenance so in the future that money will be available for transfer to the general fund unless we have more improvements that need to be done same way with MLK, the school district loan matures in 2014. The West America bank lease matures in 2014. And then we have the general fund advance. We increased the loan repayments from MLK to the city's general fund by $350,000 this year. And part of the priority calendar is to adopt a long-range plan for MLK, and that's funded through here too. And finally, our parking operations. As you know, we've had extensive investment in our parking infrastructure. Our revenues are consistent with what they were prior years, but we're gaining valuable information to be able to come back to the council at some point in the future with just what parking means to the city and how we can better maximize our revenues and manage our expenditures it's kind of interesting in recent weekends where we've had like our our traditional heavy weekends like the Memorial Day weekend our revenues were consistent with what they were last year but our expenses were considerably less because we didn't have to have the manpower in the booths that we used to have in previous years. The machines carried it for us. And then finally we have internal service funds. These are funds where we charge operating departments a fee in order to have the vehicle replacement money or the insurance premium money or the employee benefit money to meet future obligations. In terms of vehicle replacement, we have a complete vehicle replacement schedule. Every vehicle in the city is listed, and we depreciate it, charge the department an equivalent amount of money, and put that money, actually put it into the vehicle replacement fund. And this year, we have appropriations from that fund to replace vehicles. Workers' comp, we have $150,000 self-insurance retention, and then we have our premium from the Bay City's Joint Powers Insurance Agency. We take that and we allocate it across all the departments who then pay a fee back to the workers compensation fund so that we have a reserve in there to meet not only self insurance retention for the current year but for any past incurred but not reported expenses. Finally, our employee benefit fund where we put away 1% of general fund salaries to accumulate reserves for other post-employment benefits. That concludes the budget presentation. I think at this point, if the Council has questions or discussions or wants to take public comment, it would be appropriate. And then what I would ask the council is to bring me back to the podium to walk through the required resolutions to adopt the budget. |
| 02:29:26.90 | Herb Weiner | Any questions up here? Any comments from the public on this item? |
| 02:29:41.11 | Barbara Brand | Thank you. Mr. Mayor and City Council members, thank you for giving me the presentation. |
| 02:29:45.21 | Herb Weiner | You have to present your name, please. |
| 02:29:46.75 | Barbara Brand | My name is Barbara Brand, and I, on July 1st, I'll become head of school of the Marin School. And I hope this is the right time for me to speak, because I know that in reviewing the whole budget, one of the items under consideration is the rents that we pay. And I'd like to thank you very much for working with us to make our rent affordable. It's going to make it possible for us to continue at the site. We love being in Sausalito. We love being at the site. So on behalf of the trustees and the parents and the students, I thank you so much for making it affordable for us. |
| 02:30:25.24 | Herb Weiner | Okay, thank you. |
| 02:30:26.38 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. He liked having you here. Is that it, sir? |
| 02:30:32.56 | Charlie Francis | Okay. the Okay, other public... |
| 02:30:37.03 | Jonathan Leone | I want to have, is there any involvement? |
| 02:30:38.97 | Herb Weiner | Any other public comment? Then let's bring it back up here. Thank you. |
| 02:30:42.45 | Jonathan Leone | Yeah. |
| 02:30:42.74 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. you Okay. |
| 02:30:43.97 | Jonathan Leone | I think before Charlie walks us through, because you have to read these exactly and all that good stuff, if we have any general comments. And mine would, is that OK, Mr. Mayor? OK. Yeah, I can. |
| 02:30:44.69 | Charlie Francis | Sure. |
| 02:30:44.71 | Herb Weiner | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 02:30:54.09 | Herb Weiner | Okay, yeah, I can live with that. |
| 02:30:55.85 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. Thank you. Okay. you Go ahead, Wendy. |
| 02:30:58.24 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 02:30:58.58 | Herb Weiner | Council Member Pfeiffer. |
| 02:31:00.27 | Linda Pfeifer | Oh, thank you. Well, I want to thank Charlie for his hard work on the budget this year, and I also want to Uh, All the presentations were very impressive. And I want to say that Chief Tejeda and the work that you're doing on the waterfront is very impressive. in a way neglected for a while and the hard work that you're doing on there with your department is definitely making it a safer place for our community and better for the environment as well. So I just wanted to make that comment. |
| 02:31:40.15 | Herb Weiner | Okay, thank you. Nobody else. |
| 02:31:44.18 | Jonathan Leone | I'll just say, you know, I think the realities of the city's finances are The three departments that have any sort of elasticity to them, you can see by the little graphs, are the small departments, are park and rec. the library and RETS budget, which are all about the same. and they're the equivalent of what we're asking to support this residence to support in the combined annexation of the fire department. So if you want to do this yourself and have your own fire department, you got to come up with that money that would support Not only one of these departments, but both of them. Two out of those three. So you pick. But the reality of it is if you look at the fire budget and you look at the police budget, they're growing at rates that we cannot sustain. |
| 02:32:32.41 | Linda Pfeifer | Fireball. |
| 02:32:37.89 | Jonathan Leone | and that our current revenue rate growth because you saw the graphs of our revenue. It isn't growing that steeply. And if you look at the rate of growth going further, if you grow 33% in five, six years, or six years in terms of the public safety departments, A city's revenue growth can't keep up with the cost of providing public safety. So the reality, this is the hard choice we're facing in the future. And the loss of control certainly is important, but Then again, I hope some smart and energetic folks run for these particular boards because these special purpose entities are only going to grow statewide because of the inability of small towns to provide these services given how our revenue, all cities revenue growth are held by Prop 13. which benefits all of us in some ways, but on the other side, you still want to pay the bills. But I would like to congratulate all the department heads for towing the line and holding their costs request within reason and congratulate ourselves as an entity for being able to balance our budget without cutting services at a time where most municipalities are doing that, including some in Marin County. Um, And also that we're doing things that, frankly, I'll give myself a little credit here, which I don't often do. In Jeremy's budget, we're doing, we have a full court press to protect the history and character of Sausalito. I mean, that's taken... I think the last effort that was similar to that was probably when the historic district was put in place in the 80s, 70s. Seventies? Eighty-one. There you go. So you're going to have, and this is something I worked for for five years, and I thank my fellow council members for doing this, and it takes a few kicks in the pants, but luckily Army Corps and the VA kick us in the pants, so we're going to get this done and and it will make Saucelit a better place for decades to come. So I think we as a town you can be very secure that we're doing the right things, planning for the future, we can have different opinions as what those courses may be. but the reality is we have to innovate Because things can't stay the same because they're not staying the same around us. and that's why we have to adapt to our environment while retaining the the things that make Sausageo a special place. |
| 02:35:11.30 | Herb Weiner | Thank you, Keith. Thank you. Anybody else? Yes, I will. |
| 02:35:13.68 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 02:35:13.70 | Carolyn Ford | Yes, I will say a few things. I agree that we're making great strides in a couple areas, and one is in protecting our historical buildings and I'm certainly interested in protecting our historical marinship and making sure that we're not going to be putting housing there and creating high density. I really am happy about that. In terms of the fire, though, we've had that discussion, and I feel strongly that we need to maintain control of that area. And we really are looking at what the taxpayer is paying and we need to focus on that. the 600K that's going to be raised through the property tax is on the taxpayer. And the job of maintaining pension fund or a Looking at pension fund reform, is we're giving that to another entity. So the taxpayer will be held accountable for it, and I'm not comfortable with that either. I think that we need to look at all city services, including fire, and all of the essential services that we provide our residents and figure out what we can pay for and how we do it and where we need to make the cuts. The residents pay one way or the other. So, but I want to thank each department head. I think it's great work. I'm glad to see we're getting more of our officers on bicycles and I'd like to see more of them down at the south end of town handing out tickets to bicyclists. I'm happy to see that and that we're getting our ticket givers on bicycles too. So overall, I think we're doing a great job. And Charlie, I thank you very much. |
| 02:37:25.81 | Mike Kelly | So back to my seven years ago, when I came here, we had no money in the bank. We had no reserves. We were not fully staffed in most departments. We did not have a good business plan. And employees were pretty disgruntled and unhappy, and we're leaving in pretty large clumps. And since that time, we have built... A financially stable and strong city. We have over, Charlie correct me if I'm wrong, but about 20% of our budget in cash reserves, undestricted cash reserves that we could spend if we had to. Yeah, Cordo Maduro, I think, has zero. They have also one of the largest shopping centers in Marin County. But the management of our city has grown stronger and stronger with Adam coming to us in 2007. And we've just increased every service that we offer and are doing things that other cities cannot possibly do during these times. The other day we showed up as number one I think in the IG. I can't remember what the ranking was but we were right at the top. And it was to do with financial issues and so on. So it's been through hard work. It's been through conservation. And you know I'll again put my plug in for our annexation. |
| 02:38:08.18 | Mike Kelly | Yeah, yeah, Cora Madera. |
| 02:38:55.64 | Mike Kelly | It's a very, very smart thing to do. because it will put a fence around the costs in the fire department like it don't exist right now. It will take their fingers out of our general fund. and put it into a district fund that we can control and which has to have a vote every time they want to raise the taxes. In addition to that, it will put several millions of dollars toward making us even more solvent by paying off our side fund or at least reducing it significantly and taking away reserves that we have to otherwise do now, such as vehicle and so on. And we'll have a full explanation of that and a very simplified way to show that to the voters And when you see it in that, as we will put it, you will find that it will be an overwhelmingly compelling argument, and control will always be there. But we are smart, and remember, Belvedere took over Gibran's sewer council. So we can do it, too. So I'm pleased that this budget and this staff and this city is really in fine, fine shape thanks to the great leadership of all of the department heads and we're going to continue that right on. Thank you. |
| 02:40:10.60 | Herb Weiner | Well, I'll be real quick. Thank you very much to staff. I think you've done a great job. but it all still drops on the hands of City Manager. And when you first came in, you said, that you were going to bring exceptional service to our community. And I want to thank you very much because you really have. You have made a difference, and I hope we can keep you. |
| 02:40:36.21 | Jonathan Leone | What happened to your hair is what we really want to know. |
| 02:40:37.97 | Mary Richardson | Yeah. Ha ha ha ha! |
| 02:40:39.28 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. Bye. |
| 02:40:41.34 | Herb Weiner | Part of the budget cuts. |
| 02:40:42.27 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 02:40:42.32 | Mary Richardson | laughter |
| 02:40:43.11 | Jonathan Leone | Yeah. |
| 02:40:43.39 | Herb Weiner | Bye. Well, where I came from, that is called a whistle. Yeah, not a cool cut. |
| 02:40:48.06 | Mary Richardson | Yeah. |
| 02:40:51.55 | Jacques (Public Commenter) | Thank you. |
| 02:40:51.57 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 02:40:51.69 | Herb Weiner | you |
| 02:40:51.74 | Jacques (Public Commenter) | Thank you. |
| 02:40:51.96 | Herb Weiner | Anyway, any other... Okay, at this time here. We have a motion. |
| 02:40:57.53 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 02:40:57.54 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 02:40:57.58 | Jonathan Leone | Charlie, you want to lead us through the motions? |
| 02:40:58.66 | Charlie Francis | through the motions and Thank you for all your comments and thank you for your leadership. first resolution is the gatsby fifty four resolution this is a resolution that uh... that is required by our auditors for the next year's financial statement. GASB 54 is a new pronouncement that says that cities can no longer just say the fund balance is restricted or unrestricted or designated. They want to be more precise in their descriptions. And the way they do that is by having certain amounts of fund balance designated as unspendable. In other words, if you have monies that are |
| 02:41:28.34 | Mike Kelly | Yeah. |
| 02:41:44.69 | Charlie Francis | and inventories are there in petty cash. Are their notes receivable? They're basically, they're not able to be spent. And so they're unspendable fund balances. So just like we've talked about earlier about our liquid fund balance and our illiquid because it's tied up from advances to other funds, this helps clarify this for financial statements. And then there are fund balances that are restricted. And then you see over here in the resolution, attachment I've listed all those restrictions on the special revenue funds that we just covered as we went through the budget In other words, those monies are restricted. They can only be used for that purpose. And then we have fund balances that are designated as committed. In other words, we're committing this fund balance for disaster assistance, and it would take a city council resolution to uncommit the committed fund balance. We have vehicle and equipment replacement, our vehicle and equipment replacement fund. I've talked about how we have this excess money. If the fire annexation occurs, we have a lot of money. we will end up with more money in the equipment replacement fund than we'll need to transfer. And if that does happen, And staff can't just unilaterally move that money out of the equipment replacement fund because we're going to be designating it as committed, and it would take us to come back to the city council, and the city council then says you can use it for this other purpose. And then we have assigned fund balances, and this is where we have some city management discretion on assigning some fund balances for encumbrances based on policies that are set at the council of or finance committee level about what would be a budget stabilization or any other fund balance that's assigned. We would make those recommendations through the budget process or through the annual audit process. Come back to you and then you would confirm those assigned. And then unassigned fund balance is what's ever left over. Like we were talking about the district's fund balance. They don't have any, at this point, unassigned fund balance in their general fund because they've decided to commit it for some other reason. You can do that too. Now sometimes it's good to have some unassigned fund balance because then it can be used for contingencies and for reserves. And many times, as of right now, we have our small amount that we leave as unassigned. so the gasp fifty four resolution then that's before you is the first resolution and you would uh... just moved to adopt the gasp fifty four components as specified in the attachments. And Thank you. |
| 02:44:40.36 | Paul (Public Commenter) | some of the... |
| 02:44:40.72 | Charlie Francis | Thank you. |
| 02:44:40.75 | Paul (Public Commenter) | Thank you. |
| 02:44:42.81 | Charlie Francis | Thank you. |
| 02:44:42.82 | Herb Weiner | Have a second, all in favor. Aye. Aye. Opposed? |
| 02:44:45.83 | Charlie Francis | you |
| 02:44:47.60 | Herb Weiner | Okay, Charlie, one down. Thank you, Mayor and City Council. |
| 02:44:47.77 | Mike Kelly | Good job. Thank you. Thank you. |
| 02:44:50.55 | Charlie Francis | the next was the |
| 02:44:52.04 | Herb Weiner | Do I have to read that out? No. Okay. Thank you, Charlie. |
| 02:44:56.05 | Charlie Francis | The next city, this is one of your usual, the GASB one was just a once in time resolution but we needed to do it before june 30th if we ever change any of those components i'm required to come back to you on gas be to in order to change any of those definitions but if we're not going to recommend any changes then it will not be part of future budget. |
| 02:45:21.99 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 02:45:22.02 | Charlie Francis | Thank you. resolution. |
| 02:45:22.82 | Jonathan Leone | resolutions. Which for some of these is a change from years ago when people would worry, oh, if money goes to City Hall, it gets moved around and people were concerned about giving money to designated purposes versus other cities. The money gets put in these funds and you can't fool around with it. There's a lot of movement of funds between funds at one point in time years ago. |
| 02:45:31.83 | Charlie Francis | Right. |
| 02:45:42.92 | Linda Pfeifer | Boom. |
| 02:45:48.26 | Jonathan Leone | No longer is that the way it happens here. |
| 02:45:50.31 | Charlie Francis | Yes. |
| 02:45:51.67 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 02:45:52.55 | Charlie Francis | The second resolution you've seen every year since 1978, it's called the GAN limit resolution. And what it does is it goes through a series of tables that calculates the spending limit and then looks at our proceeds of taxes and says, are we within the spending limit? You have authorized your city auditors to run through a agreed-upon procedure that recalculates this every year. So as part of your annual audit report, you get an auditor's written opinion that the city staff did computed accurately the year before so this calculation will be subject to that same on a scrutiny during the upcoming audit on it starts in a couple months as for the year ending June 30 and it sets our appropriation limit at 14 million 128,000 proceeds from taxes are only nine million dollars so we are under our appropriation limit by four3 million, and therefore met all the requirements of the 1978 Article 13. amendment to the Constitution. There's one thing I'd like to point out to you before I recommend the resolution, is our per capita change went from 7,055 to 7,116. And I looked at that and I said, Something's wrong because last year, our population was seven thousand five hundred So I went and looked at the 2010 census. I didn't know this. Maybe you already did. I'm sure you probably already did. We lost 500 people from 2000 to 2010. Thank you. |
| 02:47:27.14 | Linda Pfeifer | Hmm. |
| 02:47:27.37 | Charlie Francis | Where did they go? Well, I guess they're not at council meetings anymore. |
| 02:47:31.90 | Unknown | He's not laid. |
| 02:47:32.23 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:47:32.38 | Charlie Francis | Yeah. |
| 02:47:33.23 | Mike Kelly | Amen. |
| 02:47:34.24 | Herb Weiner | Yeah. |
| 02:47:34.76 | Charlie Francis | No, they went out there. |
| 02:47:35.03 | Herb Weiner | They went up to Fairfax. |
| 02:47:37.13 | Charlie Francis | Oh, okay. |
| 02:47:37.34 | Herb Weiner | I'm sorry. |
| 02:47:38.78 | Charlie Francis | anyway I'll ask the council now for a resolution to adopt again limit as as the resolution specified |
| 02:47:45.92 | Carolyn Ford | I move we adopt again my miss. |
| 02:47:48.21 | Charlie Francis | Okay, sir. |
| 02:47:49.23 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 02:47:49.31 | Carolyn Ford | . |
| 02:47:49.39 | Herb Weiner | Like, it's... Okay, all in favor? Aye. Aye. Opposed? |
| 02:47:51.76 | Charlie Francis | Bye. |
| 02:47:53.02 | Jim Irving | you |
| 02:47:53.53 | Herb Weiner | Thank you very much, Mayor and City Council. |
| 02:47:54.07 | Charlie Francis | Thank you very much, Mayor and City Council. |
| 02:47:56.18 | Herb Weiner | want to roll. |
| 02:47:56.82 | Charlie Francis | Thank you. OK, this is a resolution that you also see every year when we adopt the the budget the reason we included with adopting the budget is because the staffing and salary resolution does two things number one it sets position control first thing you do when you adopt the budget is here's how much dollars we're gonna spend but you go one step further you say here's the positions that administration is allowed to fill those positions during the year and here's the amount of salary for each one of those positions that you're allowed to pay so this resolution reflects the two-year bargaining agreements with all the organized labor groups, and it also includes the same continuation of policy to management and confidential employees that they be treated the same as SEIU employees, essentially no increase, no takeaway. The accompanying staffing salaries and tables reflect those bargaining agreements and any changes to these tables that you made during the last fiscal year. And staff recommends that you would adopt this resolution. Council Member Leon. |
| 02:49:06.85 | Jonathan Leone | What's what you blended to you? |
| 02:49:08.13 | Linda Pfeifer | I'm sorry, Council Member Faisal. |
| 02:49:08.17 | Herb Weiner | Mr. Mayor. |
| 02:49:09.04 | Charlie Francis | I don't remember, FISA. |
| 02:49:10.16 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 02:49:11.24 | Linda Pfeifer | So in the future, if we needed to change these salary, you know, tables, would that be part of the negotiation with the SEIU or what? |
| 02:49:23.51 | Charlie Francis | Well, any change to compensation, there's a Meyer-Milius-Brown Act requirement that we meet and confer and negotiate that with the respective organized group. Yes. |
| 02:49:37.19 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 02:49:37.85 | Charlie Francis | Mr. Member Leon. |
| 02:49:38.84 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. Yeah, you might correct me if I'm wrong, but the other thing to point out, and you said it in your earlier slides regarding personnel, is that I think, At least five years ago, there were 77 employees, down from 120 at one point in time, I think, in City Hall before the dot-com bust. But I think we've hired maybe two or three or created two or three full-time positions in that, at least in the last five years. But a lot of it is up to 87 equivalent or 87.375 or whatever the number was. Because we filled positions that had been vacant for quite a long time, whether it was in the library or in other departments, particularly in the library. where you couldn't accomplish what the department was trying to accomplish because we had unfilled positions, so we couldn't afford to do it. And so I think that's also something that kind of gets under the radar a little bit, is we've restaffed our city government properly at the same time as being prudent with these other things. So I think it's important to point that out. |
| 02:50:41.13 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. Thank you. Okay, any other comment? Council Member Ford. |
| 02:50:45.99 | Carolyn Ford | No, I was just going to move that we accept this If you want to say something, please do. |
| 02:50:51.58 | Jim Irving | Thank you. |
| 02:50:51.61 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. Okay. |
| 02:50:53.21 | Carolyn Ford | And this would be, |
| 02:50:54.26 | Jonathan Leone | find this, the budget and this information on the website, is it correct? Yes. So, if everyone wants to know how much people make |
| 02:50:58.66 | Charlie Francis | Yes. So everyone wants to know how much people make. All the MOUs and the salary information is all on the administration, human resources, documents portion of the city website. Okay, Council Member Ford. |
| 02:51:14.14 | Carolyn Ford | I move that we accept the staffing and salaries portion. |
| 02:51:20.16 | Unknown | Okay. |
| 02:51:21.60 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 02:51:21.61 | Charlie Francis | all in favor aye opposed thank you uh... mayor city council uh... i don't have a slight on this but it is included in your packet the next uh... resolution is a resolution adopts the |
| 02:51:22.69 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 02:51:22.71 | Unknown | All right. Okay. |
| 02:51:36.28 | Charlie Francis | policy of the city council that management and confidential employees are have the same level of benefits and treatment and as SEIU employees or is otherwise accepted in this. And why this is important is you have a organized labor group who negotiates an agreement and comes to with a memorandum of understanding which the city council adopts and then we develop these tables. What this does is it's not a memorandum of understanding with an organized labor group because they're unrepresented. How can they be organized or have a representation? It is a statement of policy, though. The city council articulates the policy, as you have in previous years, that this is the method of compensation and the level of benefits that we're going to provide for this next coming year to management and confidential employees. And I just wanted to reaffirm that policy through the budget process this year because it slipped through the budget process the last two years under my mismanagement if you will. I'm catching up. |
| 02:52:51.56 | Carolyn Ford | So I move that we accept the policy for management and other employees outside of SEIU. |
| 02:52:59.52 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 02:53:00.97 | Carolyn Ford | So I get to know. |
| 02:53:01.89 | Herb Weiner | Okay, all in favor. |
| 02:53:03.03 | Charlie Francis | Thank you. |
| 02:53:03.05 | Herb Weiner | you |
| 02:53:03.13 | Charlie Francis | Hi. |
| 02:53:03.35 | Carolyn Ford | Bye. |
| 02:53:03.71 | Herb Weiner | you |
| 02:53:03.88 | Charlie Francis | Opposed? Thank you, Mayor and Council. and this is the big budget resolution although there is one more to follow after this but this is the big one this is the one where you do appropriate uh... the amount of money balance to provide for the resources and the expenditure of those resources to deliver services during the year. I want to point out the legal level of control. By adopting this budget, With this schedule, you're saying that Each one of these departments cannot exceed their appropriation unless we come back to the City Council and ask for budget appropriation authority. So the legal level of control is set at the department level for the general fund. for all the other funds the legal level of control is set at the fund level and for most part these amounts of money like in the special revenue funds are being transferred from the special revenue fund to either the debt service fund or to the capital project fund to provide the services that we're doing. And so, and then of course, in the internal service funds, it provides for either the expenditure of workers' compensation money or to authorize purchasing the vehicles that are authorized to be purchased this year. So the legal level of control is at the funded level because we really don't have departments within those special funds. That's your control over the budget so that management can step out of its boundaries. And I request the council make a motion to adopt this resolution with this attachment, adopting the budget for fiscal year 12. you |
| 02:54:47.56 | Mike Kelly | so much. |
| 02:54:48.11 | Charlie Francis | you Okay. |
| 02:54:48.84 | Mike Kelly | Second. |
| 02:54:49.77 | Charlie Francis | Okay, all in favor? Aye. Opposed? |
| 02:54:51.18 | Mike Kelly | Bye. |
| 02:54:53.67 | Charlie Francis | Okay, Charlie. Thank you. And the final motion is a motion to amend our master fee schedule to allow the Chief of Police to issue concealed weapon permits. |
| 02:55:03.71 | Carolyn Ford | Two and one. |
| 02:55:05.12 | Charlie Francis | And if you have |
| 02:55:05.17 | Carolyn Ford | And if you have... Oh. |
| 02:55:07.17 | Charlie Francis | Oh. |
| 02:55:07.37 | Unknown | Bye. No. |
| 02:55:08.90 | Charlie Francis | You know, every year some in the past we've amended our fee schedule through the budget process in the past couple years we delinked amending the fee schedule from the budget process but if we had the opportunity to include it in the budget process we did so this year we had the one fee increase proposal from the police department and so this motion allows us to amend the master fee schedule to include that and if you have any questions about that our chief is here to answer it |
| 02:55:39.90 | Mike Kelly | So moved. |
| 02:55:40.56 | Charlie Francis | Is it? |
| 02:55:40.97 | Mary Richardson | Concealed with. Concealed with. |
| 02:55:41.05 | Mike Kelly | That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. |
| 02:55:43.97 | Charlie Francis | Thank you. |
| 02:55:44.97 | Mike Kelly | Yeah. Thank you. |
| 02:55:45.76 | Herb Weiner | Amen. |
| 02:55:45.84 | Mike Kelly | concealed with. |
| 02:55:48.81 | Herb Weiner | any questions so moved Okay. |
| 02:55:55.92 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 02:55:56.22 | Herb Weiner | I'll sit. Okay. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? |
| 02:55:56.27 | Linda Pfeifer | I'll sit. |
| 02:55:56.73 | Mike Kelly | . |
| 02:55:56.76 | Linda Pfeifer | THE END OF THE END OF THE Thank you. |
| 02:55:58.52 | Charlie Francis | Hi. |
| 02:56:01.01 | Herb Weiner | Mr. Stalley, thank you for an exceptional job. Mr. Mayor and Senator Haley. |
| 02:56:02.21 | Charlie Francis | Bye. Thank you. Thank you. It's just an honor serving all of you. Thank you, Charlie. |
| 02:56:22.34 | Jim Irving | and that will be the case in the Jawa. Thank you. Thank you. |
| 02:56:30.73 | Jonathan Leone | When are you going on bike patrol? |
| 02:56:32.87 | Jim Irving | . |
| 02:56:32.98 | Jonathan Leone | Ha ha ha. |
| 02:56:33.62 | Linda Pfeifer | Whatever you want. |
| 02:56:37.97 | Jim Irving | I'll be good on this. |
| 02:56:38.19 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. Bye. |
| 02:56:38.83 | Unknown | . Thank you. |
| 02:56:40.53 | Jim Irving | . |
| 02:56:40.77 | Unknown | I want to go on the right and |
| 02:56:42.51 | Herb Weiner | Okay. We have a report. Heidi Burns. |
| 02:56:42.53 | Unknown | No. |
| 02:56:48.64 | Herb Weiner | I think it's a good one. |
| 02:56:50.00 | Heidi Burns | Good evening Mayor Weiner, members of the City Council. I'm just going to wait until my presentation pops up, if you don't mind just a second. |
| 02:56:55.57 | Herb Weiner | I don't mind. It's okay. |
| 02:56:59.99 | Barbara Brand | I'm going to kick it this little boy. Thank you. |
| 02:57:03.81 | Heidi Burns | Mm-hmm. |
| 02:57:04.02 | Barbara Brand | Thank you. |
| 02:57:04.36 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 02:57:08.63 | Heidi Burns | I will begin. So the purpose of this agenda item this evening is to identify or have the city council identify a project alternative to accommodate accessibility improvements at the Plaza Vimia del Mar. On July 27th of 2010, the City Council provided direction to staff to address four tasks. Sorry, it's a little late. The first task was to analyze historic resource impacts associated with any improvements at the Plaza de Viña del Mar as well as to identify what is really what may be historically significant with the plaza. The second item was to identify and analyze environmental impacts as it relates to the California Environmental Quality Act and what project alternatives may or may not impact those issues. The other items were to evaluate legal issues associated with project alternatives as well as to identify estimated construction costs. So this April of this year, the planning staff came before the city council to address the top two tasks. And that was the historic resources and how those resources relate to CEQA. As you recall, the city council, and staff hired Paige and Turnbull, an architectural historian preservation consulting firm, to prepare a historic resource evaluation report to identify, again, those important resources that may be associated with the park and also to look at the no landing alternative as well as the landing with ramp alternative. |
| 02:58:30.49 | Unknown | hired. |
| 02:58:52.43 | Heidi Burns | So the presentation is set up to provide a recap of that presentation on April 19th as well as to delve into those other issues related to the construction costs and So, based on the page in Turnbull presentation and the historic resource evaluation report, it appears as though the period of significance which makes the Plaza Viena del Mar historically significant would be that period between 1904 and 1936. That's essentially when the plaza was established and the improvements installed at that point in time. The presentation and report also included those features that were considered historically significant and those are identified as character defining features. And those features include the central fountain, the elephants, the rock wall, the triangular parcel relative to the vehicular and pedestrian circulation, its relationship to the Old Sausalito Ferry Terminal, the drinking fountain. the war memorial, the canary palms, the lawn, the spatial relationship of the elephants as it relates to the fountain, The flag pulls. The presentation also identified those features that aren't historically significant, and those would be the non-original site furnishings, the landing that was modified in 1970, the brick paving, electrical boxes, asphalt walkways, brick paving, again, And then there's an asphalt apron that connects the landing to the fountain. The findings of the report and the presentation was that the plaza is eligible for the national, state, and local registers as a contributing element to the historic downtown district. Also the plaza was found to be individually eligible for the California and local registers. And based on the California register, there are four criterion that. need to be identified to determine whether or not something's historically significant. And Page and Turnbull found that under criterion one which would be associated with events that the plaza is significant based on its relationship to the Pan-Exposition, Pan-Pacific Exposition, International Exposition that occurred in 1915. Also, criterion B, those historic features related to important persons, it was identified that this plaza was important based on Mayor Jacques Tomas, who essentially was a driving force behind improving the park between 1913 and 1916. The report also identified that the plaza did or would qualify as a historic resource based on the California Environmental Equality Act. And since it is qualified as a resource, then automatically you have to identify any type of improvement as it relates to the Secretary of the Interior Standards for the rehabilitation of buildings, features, structures, and objects. And what the Page and Turnbull report found was that both the no landing alternative and the landing with the ramp alternative would not be consistent with the Secretary of the Interior Standard 9 And that standard specifically states that new additions, exterior alterations, or related new construction will not destroy historic materials, features, and spatial relationships that characterize the property. The new work shall be differentiated from the old and will be compatible with the historic materials, features, size, scale, and proportion, and massing to protect the integrity of the property and its environment. What Page and Turnbull did also identify is that the no landing option could be slightly modified to provide a reduced width around the fountain and exchange the use of decomposed granite with Portland cement and If the city chose to go with that option, then those improvements would be found consistent with all 10 of the Secretary of the Interior standards. |
| 03:03:01.57 | Linda Pfeifer | Mm-hmm. |
| 03:03:02.38 | Mike Kelly | On page one of your staff report, 6B1, second bullet point under historic resource impacts, you say that |
| 03:03:06.75 | Linda Pfeifer | Mm-hmm. |
| 03:03:11.66 | Mike Kelly | And I think this is consistent with what I read in the report from Turnbull. Plaza Villanueva Del Mar would not be eligible for listing on the National Register under any criteria. And yet you say in your first bullet point that it is indeed |
| 03:03:29.03 | Heidi Burns | Thank you. |
| 03:03:29.05 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 03:03:29.06 | Heidi Burns | It's eligible as a contributor to the overall district as a standalone |
| 03:03:29.08 | Mike Kelly | Yeah. |
| 03:03:36.94 | Heidi Burns | place, it would not be |
| 03:03:38.41 | Mike Kelly | It would not be eligible. I think that distinction is |
| 03:03:39.62 | Heidi Burns | Thank you. |
| 03:03:42.22 | Mike Kelly | Yeah, so. Thank you. Thank you. I just wanted to make that distinction. |
| 03:03:42.26 | Heidi Burns | Yeah. Yeah, so it does, it is significant to the National Register as a district. And again, it's only identified to be eligible for the state and local registers. |
| 03:03:53.40 | Jonathan Leone | and local registers. But the district itself could be could be eligible for the National Historicers. |
| 03:04:02.03 | Heidi Burns | That's correct. And it has been determined that it is eligible. The city just hasn't gone that extra step so far. |
| 03:04:04.70 | Linda Pfeifer | and the. |
| 03:04:09.78 | Heidi Burns | Thank you. |
| 03:04:10.03 | Linda Pfeifer | Something that's been |
| 03:04:11.47 | Linda Pfeifer | Along those lines, thank you, Mr. Mayor. |
| 03:04:11.59 | Heidi Burns | Thank you. |
| 03:04:15.62 | Linda Pfeifer | Along those lines, with respect to the point of interest or point of historical interest |
| 03:04:22.39 | Linda Pfeifer | . |
| 03:04:22.56 | Linda Pfeifer | It's my understanding that the designation form states plaza and fountain in Vigna Del Mar. And so I interpret that designation of plaza to include the landing as the point of interest. Would you concur with that? |
| 03:04:43.87 | Heidi Burns | You know, when that Department of Resource Form 523 was prepared in, I believe it was 1975 or 76, it didn't really specify what that is, so it's pretty hard for staff to concur or to understand what exactly they were including in that but based on the recent DPR 523 form that Paige and Turnbull prepared, they identified all those elements. |
| 03:05:12.71 | Unknown | Okay, thank you. |
| 03:05:17.70 | Heidi Burns | So that slide concluded the historic resource component. So the next item that the City Council was interested in was what impacts either alternatives would have on Ordinance 1128 and the settlement agreement. And in February of last year, our city attorney prepared a memo stating that based on federal preemption, ordinance 1128 would not, apply here. and that federal preemption would apply to both the landing with ramp and the landing with no ramp alternatives. With regards to the settlement agreement, the city did agree in that settlement agreement to provide access to the fountain and the landing. Both, and it was found by our city attorney and summarized in our staff report that both alternatives meet the intent of the settlement agreement. Based on construction costs, our director of public works prepared estimates for both the landing with ramp and no landing alternatives and found that the no landing alternative would be slightly higher. And those estimates include a combination of both soft and hard costs. |
| 03:06:33.59 | Mary Richardson | Thank you. |
| 03:06:36.20 | Heidi Burns | Again, I kind of touched upon this earlier in the historic resource section, but regarding the compliance with the California Environmental Quality Act, it found that both project alternatives as proposed would not be consistent with the Secretary of the Interior Standard number 9 and therefore an initial environmental study um, either a negative declaration or mitigated negative declaration would need to be prepared. Staff is assuming a mitigated negative declaration would be prepared, but without going through the checklist, it's hard to tell at this point in time. However, if the city council determines that the no landing alternative with the modified elements is the preferred alternative, then it would be determined that a categorical exemption pursuant to the California Environmental Quality Act could apply. And the State Office of Historic Preservation has determined that if you have a project that's consistent with, again, all those 10 standards, then any impacts to the project would not be considered historically significant and therefore would not be an adverse impact on the environment. So with the next steps, again, we're here this evening asking for direction in terms of which alternative to decide or pursue. Once the City Council gives that direction to staff, we will then prepare the appropriate CEQA document. We will schedule a joint planning commission and historic landmarks board meeting for the review of a design review permit for the preferred project And this project isn't anticipated to get reviewed by the City Council unless it's appealed. With that, staff is recommending that the City Council does provide or identify the appropriate project alternative. and direct staff to prepare the necessary plans and submit a design review permit application for the project and then also for staff to prepare the appropriate CEQA document. So we have a variety of staff available this evening to answer any questions you may have. Thank you. |
| 03:08:39.68 | Herb Weiner | Okay. Is there any questions? Mr. Mayor. |
| 03:08:41.33 | Heidi Burns | Thank you. |
| 03:08:41.35 | Linda Pfeifer | Mr. Mayor. Thank you. So Heidi, going back to the point of historical |
| 03:08:47.48 | Linda Pfeifer | I'm sorry. |
| 03:08:47.53 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 03:08:47.58 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 03:08:48.37 | Linda Pfeifer | interest and the designation of a plaza and fountain in Vignette Del Mar Park. Did Page and Turnbull weigh in as to any definition of what plaza might mean or I mean did they Did they comment on on the application stating plaza. Thank you. |
| 03:09:09.45 | Heidi Burns | Bye. |
| 03:09:09.63 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 03:09:09.73 | Heidi Burns | In the report, they didn't necessarily define what FASA is, but they identified those resources associated with the plaza that are important. So based on those character defining features, Stop. would consider those to be the historic elements of that plaza. I don't think I'm answering your question. |
| 03:09:29.70 | Linda Pfeifer | HERE. That's okay. Well, I have... |
| 03:09:34.22 | Herb Weiner | questions. |
| 03:09:34.96 | Linda Pfeifer | Another question actually, thank you Heidi. Actually, I think this question is for legal counsel with respect to 11 |
| 03:09:34.98 | Herb Weiner | Amen. |
| 03:09:44.43 | Linda Pfeifer | So, Mary, I know you have determined that federal ADA law takes precedence over the local ordinance 1128. But Saucido has another ordinance, 794A. requiring an advisory vote of the people for any changes to Viña del Mar And so I was wondering, first, if you were familiar with this ordinance, 794A, and secondly, if you were familiar with the 1977 advisory report Brief written by then-City Attorney Leland Jordan. who stated in his brief that the city council must call an election before it may make any substantial changes to Viña Del Mar Park. And my question is, given that 794A is advisory, only, it's not like ordinance 1128 in that it is advisory and not binding, so it's outside federal ADA law, whereas 1128 is a binding vote. If 794A would apply such that a ballot measure would need to be conducted required any change for Vigna Del Mar. because we are looking at two options and it would allow the people to weigh in. on their opinion with respect to which option. |
| 03:11:11.13 | Mary Wagner | I think the question of whether or not this has to be submitted to a vote is, answered by the preemption issue, whether it's advisory or I did not specifically review that ordinance. If you want me to go pull it, we can take a break, and I can do that, but no, I did not. And I don't know if 1128 replaced or overtook 794. I don't know the answer to that. |
| 03:11:38.67 | Herb Weiner | I'm not some man up, but I just may Thank you. |
| 03:11:41.44 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 03:11:41.46 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 03:11:41.51 | Mary Wagner | Yeah. |
| 03:11:41.76 | Mike Kelly | I have substantial experience with ADA. I can tell you that no city, state, |
| 03:11:41.81 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 03:11:43.53 | Peter Banning | Thank you. |
| 03:11:43.68 | Erin Stroud | Yeah. |
| 03:11:46.84 | Mike Kelly | or other agency ordinance trumps ADA, period. |
| 03:11:50.23 | Linda Pfeifer | Well, I guess my question though was 794 doesn't seek to trump anything. It's an advisory vote. It just asks the people of Sausalito to weigh in on which option, and both options meet ADA requirements, so all we're asking is, you know, to take a vote. |
| 03:12:08.88 | Mary Wagner | I'd have to look at the ordinance. |
| 03:12:09.94 | Linda Pfeifer | Okay, yeah, okay, thank you. |
| 03:12:12.74 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. Thank you. Heidi, can I ask a quick question? If you flip back a couple slides, right that one. So we don't have that in our packet, this right hand That's different than the one I have in terms of the way that the walk is laid out. Right. Is that because we don't have plans for it? Right. It's you're asking us to give you direction to go and finalize this plan and come back another time. |
| 03:12:31.66 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. Is that correct? |
| 03:12:40.72 | Heidi Burns | That is correct. That plan that you're holding was actually included in the scope of work for the request for proposal for the historic resource evaluation. The only reason I modified it here was because this is the more correct rendering that should have been given. |
| 03:12:41.58 | Jonathan Leone | And, um, |
| 03:12:47.71 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 03:13:00.79 | Carolyn Ford | I |
| 03:13:01.95 | Herb Weiner | Council Member Ford, it's okay for her. |
| 03:13:04.31 | Carolyn Ford | you Um. The width of the path around the fountain, do we know what that is at this point or what they recommended? |
| 03:13:16.11 | Heidi Burns | I believe that in this diagram to the right, it's proposed as 10 feet. However, it was supposed to be consistent with the modified landing with ramp, which I believe was reduced down to 8. |
| 03:13:28.02 | Linda Pfeifer | Okay. |
| 03:13:28.39 | Heidi Burns | Thank you. Um, as part of the project proposal. So again, we don't really have any plans regarding the no landing alternative. We just kind of threw something together based on the information that we had at that time. |
| 03:13:41.17 | Carolyn Ford | Yeah. So eight feet of. concrete around the That seems like an awful lot. Eight feet of concrete around the fountain? |
| 03:13:48.02 | Heidi Burns | $8. |
| 03:13:50.38 | Carolyn Ford | Well, we- All the way around? Except for the palm tree, I see it's- |
| 03:13:51.80 | Heidi Burns | Except for this. It's trying to be protected. |
| 03:13:54.35 | Carolyn Ford | It was trying. Yeah. |
| 03:13:56.84 | Heidi Burns | So what Paige and Turnbull is recommending is that the minimum amount of width around the fountain necessary would be more consistent with the Secretary of the Interior Standard Number 9 as well as the change from decomposed granite to Portland cement. So whatever. |
| 03:14:13.81 | Unknown | So, |
| 03:14:15.91 | Heidi Burns | our design professional could come up with to comply with the ADA requirements, I believe is what would be presented to the Planning Commission and Historic Landmarks Board if this is the no landing option is the preferred alternative. |
| 03:14:29.45 | Carolyn Ford | Mm. So we don't know. We don't know how. way that would be really. Not at this point in time. Do we have a report regarding the canary palm tree? Is there any? |
| 03:14:35.39 | Heidi Burns | Okay. |
| 03:14:43.96 | Carolyn Ford | uh, report about the impact on that. The palm tree. |
| 03:14:53.16 | Heidi Burns | There was a revised report that was recently prepared. And if you don't mind, I'm going to defer this over to Jonathan Goldman. OK. Thank you. |
| 03:15:04.83 | Jonathon Goldman | The report that we have prepared by Mr. Edgarka addresses the original proposal. What he has not done, and I asked him to do today, was when we do have a plan for whichever of the two alternatives that the council indicates their preference, that he coordinate with us to ensure that the palms are not harmed by the construction or the existence of the path around the fountain. He's agreed to do that. |
| 03:15:46.30 | Carolyn Ford | Oh, good. Thank you. And I have another question, if I may, Mr. Mayor, our Public Works Director. There's a vault, I understand, under, well, it's clearly laid out here, under the |
| 03:15:49.99 | Jonathon Goldman | Okay. |
| 03:16:03.75 | Carolyn Ford | The platform. |
| 03:16:05.05 | Linda Pfeifer | Yes. |
| 03:16:05.89 | Carolyn Ford | And I have heard, and it's just rumour, that that is something that would need to be dealt with because it rises above the ground level and there's an issue there. Is that cost included in your estimate? Yes. Okay. And secondly, do we have a cost of how much, just broken out separately, |
| 03:16:30.81 | Jonathon Goldman | Yes. |
| 03:16:40.36 | Carolyn Ford | How much just the ramp would cost? |
| 03:16:43.11 | Jonathon Goldman | I believe that an attachment to your staff report has the detailed cost estimate that we prepared. I don't have it in front of me. |
| 03:16:52.87 | Carolyn Ford | I'm looking at that new curb rents. No. Um, |
| 03:17:01.39 | Jonathon Goldman | It ended up being attachment number five. It's two pages, 63 and 84. |
| 03:17:02.20 | Carolyn Ford | Oh, no, I'm sorry. Yes. The 83 and 84. |
| 03:17:10.40 | Carolyn Ford | Oh, new ramp with foundation and stem walls would be 3,588. Thank you. |
| 03:17:18.37 | Jonathon Goldman | Yes, and that's with the retaining the landing and building a new ramp at the back. |
| 03:17:18.38 | Carolyn Ford | . |
| 03:17:25.57 | Carolyn Ford | Okay. Thank you. |
| 03:17:29.27 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 03:17:29.28 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 03:17:29.88 | Herb Weiner | You're welcome. Any other questions? Council Member Pfeiffer? |
| 03:17:32.17 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 03:17:32.19 | Linda Pfeifer | Councilmember Pfeiffer? Thank you. Actually, this question is for Jonathan too. with respect to the two arborists report So it's my understanding that both the Arborist Report stressed the dangers of concrete with the root system of the 100-plus-year-old canary palm trees and cedar trees. and expressed a strong, really stressed that, and expressed a strong preference for the the decompose granite because it allows air and water through and for the plants and root systems to breathe. So would you agree then that based on those two arborists report what we have today that concrete is not preferable with respect to the health of those historic trees? |
| 03:18:29.68 | Jonathon Goldman | No. |
| 03:18:31.13 | Linda Pfeifer | Why not? |
| 03:18:32.55 | Jonathon Goldman | because what the arborist would be responsible for doing given that the the historic context of the fountain is to be preserved by using concrete. The arborist is responsible for telling us how far away from the roots of the palm concrete can be tolerated. |
| 03:18:56.07 | Linda Pfeifer | So in other words, what we're seeing up here, these diagrams, could be dramatically altered based on the arborist's report with respect to concrete. |
| 03:19:08.00 | Jonathon Goldman | I'm not going to speculate as to the level of drama. |
| 03:19:14.15 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 03:19:14.16 | Jonathon Goldman | So I hope you'll see it. |
| 03:19:14.60 | Linda Pfeifer | I'll strike the adverb and just say so what these could be. |
| 03:19:19.11 | Jonathon Goldman | Neither alternative has been designed. |
| 03:19:19.55 | Linda Pfeifer | Altered. |
| 03:19:22.97 | Jonathon Goldman | So I would expect that there will be differences in the final design from what you have before you. |
| 03:19:30.77 | Linda Pfeifer | Okay. So in other words, we are going to take a look at that arborist report and that will influence the final design with respect to ensuring the health of the historic trees. |
| 03:19:43.69 | Jonathon Goldman | not just the existing Arborist Report, but as I indicated, I have requested that Mr. Gurkha specifically |
| 03:19:47.03 | Linda Pfeifer | No. |
| 03:19:47.39 | Unknown | to you. |
| 03:19:47.90 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 03:19:47.91 | Unknown | Okay. Yeah. |
| 03:19:51.91 | Jonathon Goldman | assist us in developing a final design assuming you give us a mandate to go forward with one of these alternatives so that what is designed and approved and built does not adversely affect the palms. |
| 03:20:00.32 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 03:20:00.33 | Linda Pfeifer | Mm-hmm. Thank you. |
| 03:20:06.68 | Linda Pfeifer | Mm-hmm. Thank you. Thank you. |
| 03:20:08.65 | Jonathon Goldman | welcome. |
| 03:20:08.67 | Linda Pfeifer | Well, |
| 03:20:09.14 | Herb Weiner | you |
| 03:20:09.33 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. |
| 03:20:09.97 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 03:20:10.00 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. |
| 03:20:10.04 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 03:20:10.05 | Jonathon Goldman | Um, |
| 03:20:10.24 | Herb Weiner | At this time here, do you have another question? |
| 03:20:13.11 | Carolyn Ford | I have just one more question, Mr. Mayor. |
| 03:20:14.69 | Herb Weiner | Mr Mayor. |
| 03:20:15.82 | Carolyn Ford | In terms of the process, this will go to the Planning Commission and will not come back to the City Council. It's a... |
| 03:20:23.98 | Heidi Burns | That's correct. Correct. It would actually be a joint historic landmarks board planning commission meeting. |
| 03:20:24.35 | Carolyn Ford | That's correct. |
| 03:20:29.71 | Heidi Burns | Um... |
| 03:20:30.34 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. As the owner of the project, I'm a little uncomfortable with that. And I'm wondering if we could bring it back to Council at some point in this process, perhaps after we get the width of that sidewalk determined and the space, the canary palm tree space that's that we're concerned about so that that tree is protected. Could we bring it back as the owner of this project, is what I'm asking. I know. I'm asking the council. |
| 03:21:07.23 | Mike Kelly | what I'm asking. I know I'm asking the council. |
| 03:21:16.90 | Linda Pfeifer | And I have a question, Mr. Mayor. |
| 03:21:18.08 | Herb Weiner | I am. Go ahead, Council Member Pfeiffer. |
| 03:21:21.70 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. Thank you. So my other question, sorry, I'm not sure if you're the person to ask this, but it's my understanding, let's see. find my question, that the elephants, the pedestals underneath the elephants are brick and mortar, because I guess in 1916, concrete was very expensive. And so brick and mortar, of course, dries out and becomes very fragile. And removing that platform would presumably, you know, be high, could be high risk with respect to the vibrations of the jackhammer, et cetera. So has that been analyzed at all, the stability of the brick and mortar with respect to the elephants with the pedestals? |
| 03:22:12.41 | Heidi Burns | It has not been analyzed and that would actually be something that would be addressed once the City Council provides us with direction. But the Secretary of the Interior standards do provide preservation briefs on the treatment of certain elements that are found to be historically significant. So best practice, best management practices could be applied to this project to help ensure the integrity of those features if the council were to choose that alternative. Thank you. |
| 03:22:36.92 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 03:22:37.42 | Heidi Burns | Thank you. |
| 03:22:37.96 | Herb Weiner | Okay, thank you Heidi. At this time here, any comments from the public? on this item? Vicki, John, and then Paul. |
| 03:22:49.94 | Vicki Nichols | Vicky, because... And I bless you. |
| 03:22:51.16 | Jim Irving | And I just... |
| 03:22:51.44 | Herb Weiner | I'm sorry, and Jean. |
| 03:22:52.98 | Vicki Nichols | speak not for the HLB, but as a member of the HLB that's been looking at this project for three years. or more. Bye. I'd just like to point out you can't see it from these flat drawings, but from being at the site visits, number one, the issue with the arborist, we did a site visit with the arborist who's one of his main concerns with all of the trees. We walked around all these places. He had done borings to see where the roots were. The reason that you have this carved out area in the circle is specifically for that, that those canary palms, which have been taken into major consideration. And I think when you get, there may be someone here to even talk about this, about what is required in terms of minimum for that surround Councilmember Ford. that you'd be able to get that answer tonight or a rough answer about how wide that would be so you could visualize that. But if you look at these two designs, and I Just for the record, I'm tired of calling it a landing. It's a bandstand. That's what it was when it was initially built. And I do agree with Page and Turnbull, as I said before, that it was degraded when it was changed to brick. It has no more significance. So to actually remove that, If you look at the drawing on the plan on the right, by removing that landing, you eliminate all this construction. that's on this landing and eliminating this need for this ramp. When we were on that site, You can't see it, but Andy, our city engineer, was very good to get us mock-ups of the materials that we have to contain this granite. This stuff is elevated. So not only do you have a possible tripping hazard, at least in my mind, you have this visual look as you look across the park we've got this kind of elevated thing so at all costs I can honestly say that everyone on the HLB was not happy with the ramp in terms of aesthetics. But we knew that we were looking at a plan to accomplish the relief of the city's obligation for an ADA lawsuit. And that would relieve it. But in my mind, and I and I do think I can speak for the others, if you can eliminate all of that coming into the park on the right-hand side by legally taking out a bandstand that is no longer significant, you have far less impact to that park. far less and in terms of the elephants councilmember Pfeiffer those were actually restored those are not the original structure of the elephants. They did that, I think, when Councilman J.R. Roberts, I think, was the mayor, they did a fundraising. So, They're still significant, but they have been restored at least once. And it was the old telephone or the flagpoles swaying in the wind that caused the vibrations to degrade them. Um, And that was the other thing. Oh, the vault's underneath. Was that the vault that the equipment was kept in that you were speaking to? Um, because there's that other vault box that's elevated. I'm a friend. |
| 03:26:09.34 | Linda Pfeifer | Seriously. |
| 03:26:10.10 | Vicki Nichols | Yeah, okay. There's also electricity on the right hand side there. Anyway, I guess, I'm sorry to be so long-winded, but if you just look at these and visualize, by going with the right hand plan you're not taking away anything Historic. It's been deemed non-historic now. By using the concrete, you're following the Secretary of Interior's standards. Otherwise, you're going to have to probably do a NegDec or an EIR. That's more expense. And I'm the last one to argue about anything in the city about trying to not do an EIR if you don't need it. But... You wouldn't have to do it by doing the concrete and taking the plan on the right and eliminating that pathway that is truly, truly, visually offensive. down there. It'll just... it will be awful but the trees have been checked very thoroughly. walk around and he was very good to take us everywhere around. |
| 03:27:12.43 | Herb Weiner | Okay. |
| 03:27:13.06 | Heidi Burns | Thank you. |
| 03:27:13.40 | Vicki Nichols | Thank you. |
| 03:27:13.41 | Heidi Burns | Thank you. |
| 03:27:13.67 | Herb Weiner | Thank you, Vicki. John Sweeney. |
| 03:27:18.39 | Jonathan Leone | Todd, we know you're the city engineer. |
| 03:27:24.55 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 03:27:24.58 | Unknown | Yeah, John Sweeney, Sausalito. I can see that this little park is buried in bureaucracy. We even have the Secretary of the Interior apparently involved in this. I've gone down there and looked at it. It's perfectly simple. You've got a path that goes through a little gate there. It's opening in the lawn, across the lawn, you get a little pathway up to the fountain itself and why you have to have some great big wide a pathway around that fountain. Why? So somebody in a wheelchair can go up there and stick his finger in the fountain and drive around it with his finger still in the fountain. I cannot see that. have a lab from a path going up to the fountain. and a lamp that goes up onto the platform and let them stick their finger in the fountain but don't have a complete circle around it which would affect the grass and also the palm tree there. Secondly, uh, I can remember that thing, that moment there when I was about 12 years old, and it had a sign saying, Do not lay on the grass. And my mother told me, that the grammar was not quite correct. Ha! Anyhow. Just... Love it the way |
| 03:29:11.98 | Herb Weiner | It is. Thank you. Well, sometimes we wish we could do that, but there are other forces that create different movements. Paul? |
| 03:29:22.25 | Paul (Public Commenter) | Thank you. |
| 03:29:22.27 | Herb Weiner | Hmm. |
| 03:29:22.61 | Paul (Public Commenter) | Thank you. |
| 03:29:28.72 | Paul (Public Commenter) | Mayor, council members, good evening. Um, I think I... |
| 03:29:33.86 | Herb Weiner | You've got to identify yourself, Paul. |
| 03:29:36.12 | Paul (Public Commenter) | I think my remarks are going to be quite contrary to Vicki. |
| 03:29:39.64 | Herb Weiner | So, |
| 03:29:46.22 | Paul (Public Commenter) | I have been involved in the horticulture and design aspects of Plaza Vida del Mar at various times since the early 1970s. In 1996, I was one of the design professionals that donated |
| 03:30:05.20 | Paul (Public Commenter) | their time to develop possible ideas for changes to the central downtown area. During those discussions, the issue of accessibility to Plaza Vina del Mar came up. I was concerned that this major feature might be modified in a way that would compromise its unique character and charm. It was this concern that energized me to look for a way to accomplish the access without compromising the beauty of the space. I felt that there were ways to create the access with relatively little physical and visual impact. I developed a conceptual plan without my knowledge, was eventually adopted by the city. This plan is the basis for exhibit B before you. The left hand. scheme. I see the issues of concern are related to the horticultural and hardscape aspects of the plaza. The horticultural aspects of this space are very tenuous. Protocols experts have presented this fact to the city and council over many years. There seems to be little concern that at any time one of the major trees would evolve into a situation where it had to be removed. Already, signature plants such as RSU's have died with little response. This is a slow, persistent deterioration of the landscape due to lack of knowledge, maintenance, inadequate funding, and lack of foresight. I urge you to not make a decision tonight that further degrades the horticultural aspects of the plaza. There appears to be inconsistency between the plans in the staff report and the plan. I think I've squared that away somewhat with it. Heidi. you In any case, it relates to the distance of paved area around the fountain. And some of that blame is mine for the initial concept plan because we have quite a wide space. The hardscape aspects have little impact as possible as terrible impact as possible around Um... to retain the character and beauty of the park, as was intended in the original design. There should be as little as possible impact to the horticultural aspects as well. In my initial conceptual plan, it showed the concrete apron around the fountain removed and a wide point finds paid bands surrounding it. In retrospect, this was a paving shown in my plan is not required. to solve the accessibility concerns, a 48 inch wide paved area is required. I don't believe benches are required, and if so, they could be set in a small paved area extending out from the required access paved caving into the loan. |
| 03:33:19.80 | Herb Weiner | Try to finish it up, Paul, please. |
| 03:33:20.50 | Paul (Public Commenter) | Thank you. Go ahead. |
| 03:33:23.36 | Herb Weiner | ahead. Well, just try to finish it up time-wise. |
| 03:33:28.51 | Paul (Public Commenter) | This would reduce the impact on the higher landscape and be much more in scale with the space. Since my involvement in the development of this concept planned 15 years ago, I still don't believe there is a less intrusive and less visually imposing way to solve access to the platform. between the elephants and then shown on Exhibit B. The ramp is hidden behind planting, and the south elephant from Bridgeway Bridgeway view and raises only about two feet. from Alportal and dark metal railings making it visually insignificant from Alportal. Any new paving in the plaza should be impervious to allow air and water through to the tree roots. Again, in retrospect, I feel the quarry finds paving around the fountain as an access wall, add an entrance and the entrance walk is out of context in this space. It would be far better visually to install brick pavers on a sand base that is retained with a SIM nearly invisible steel header. This surface would relate back to the work used on the steps and platform and reduce the add-on appearance The use of any impurposed material other than on the ramp should be prohibited. As I see it, you have two possible solutions to this problem before you tonight. In either scheme, the path around the fountain needs and should be modified from that From what is shown, the retention of the platform has a historic significance of if only as a place where bands used to play or where Santa Claus arrives. It also conceals necessary equipment that would have to be concealed somewhere Uh, else with its visual impact and the relocation of piping and underground work, causing even more root damage to the already existing tenuous landscape. the use of brick would cost a bit more than the Quarry finds paving. But with less area required, the difference would be not be great. It seems to me that the $50,000 less cost of a cliff should make the decision easy. Thank you. Thank you. Perhaps the difference could be put into a fund for the renovation of the landscape and the plaza in the not too distant future. |
| 03:36:04.17 | Herb Weiner | Thank you, Paul. |
| 03:36:13.16 | Jacques (Public Commenter) | Well, I think first it would be important to, that I think that the horticultural concerns and the path around the fountain concerns are the same for both schemes. So there shouldn't be any implications that one scheme solves those better than the other, so at least it helps to narrow down in one's thinking. I have made my position clear that I favor removal of the platform. I think that you might consider actually closing off the park and that solves the problem of circulation around the fountain and with the removal of the platform you could have a gate that would go, you could extend a walkway closer to the fountain on the outside of the gate and give people the photo op, which is what they really want. I think there's a little more latitude to work something out that could be a compromise. And then it removes all the horticultural concerns about the walk. The walk can be impervious material and just something that you look at. So that opens up more possibility. Another thing that I think should be pointed out is that there are benches shown in front of the pedestals on the lower platform scheme. And in fact, if you lower the platform, of pedestal, that sort of ziggurat quality of the pedestal creates bench places to sit. And actually, there's a little sort of a nook on the left. I don't know why it isn't created on the right. So you actually go around the corner. It gives us sort of a nice added... feature to that area. So I think you have to be careful not to get caught up historical things which then aren't used anymore, if they compromise the current use. It's the current use that, to me, is the important one. |
| 03:38:21.41 | Herb Weiner | Thank you, Jacques. OK. you Any other public comment? Okay, let's bring it back up here. |
| 03:38:31.77 | Herb Weiner | AND |
| 03:38:33.17 | Jonathan Leone | I have a question. |
| 03:38:33.69 | Herb Weiner | I remember Leon, go ahead. |
| 03:38:36.02 | Jonathan Leone | Heidi, is the staff recommendation to pursue the No modified plan, is that correct? |
| 03:38:45.20 | Heidi Burns | Thank you. DAF does not actually have a preferred recommendation. We're going to defer that to the city council, but we have identified that all, either of those, those three alternatives, |
| 03:38:52.38 | Jonathan Leone | it. That's the only one that meets the Secretary of Interior standards. That's correct. |
| 03:38:55.28 | Heidi Burns | with |
| 03:38:58.69 | Heidi Burns | That's correct. |
| 03:38:59.33 | Jonathan Leone | I'm not sure. |
| 03:38:59.50 | Heidi Burns | I'm sorry. |
| 03:38:59.72 | Jim Irving | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 03:38:59.87 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. Not either one of these? No. The other plan? No. Yeah. |
| 03:39:03.33 | Herb Weiner | No. Thank you. |
| 03:39:03.95 | Mike Kelly | No. |
| 03:39:04.58 | Heidi Burns | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 03:39:04.64 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. that one is a stand on the right now |
| 03:39:06.91 | Heidi Burns | Actually, the modified landing would work or be consistent with the Secretariat and Interior Standards. This, the no landing diagram was just kind of a conceptual thing that we threw together to try to be consistent with the landing with ramp alternative that the Planning Commission and Historic Landmarks Board had already reviewed. |
| 03:39:06.95 | Mike Kelly | Actually, |
| 03:39:26.34 | Heidi Burns | And so, you know, the plans haven't been fully, vetted and prepared. What's the... |
| 03:39:32.93 | Mike Kelly | TODAY. |
| 03:39:33.40 | Heidi Burns | So the modified no landing option would be reducing the width around the fountain and exchanging the decomposed granite with Portland cement. But you still take out the... You still take out the landing, but it's modified in the sense that the path is reduced and there's a change of material. Right. |
| 03:39:46.98 | Mike Kelly | Yeah. |
| 03:39:50.59 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. And that's the one that gets through CEQA without any problems and so on, right? That's correct. |
| 03:39:54.93 | Heidi Burns | That's correct. And the modified no landing alternative is not identified on this slide. |
| 03:40:00.75 | Herb Weiner | OK. |
| 03:40:02.42 | Linda Pfeifer | Mr. Mayor? |
| 03:40:02.90 | Herb Weiner | Remember Pfeiffer? |
| 03:40:03.74 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. So Mary, I have another question for legal counsel and it's a question that I had asked a couple counsel or when we last had this topic in front of us, which was, It's my understanding in reading the settlement that it says to the fountain, not around the fountain. Would you concur that that is the wording of the settlement? That there is no ADA requirement to go around the fountain? |
| 03:40:33.22 | Mary Wagner | I would concur that that is the wording of the settlement agreement. However, The plan which was approved by the plaintiff's ADA expert included the travel path around the fountain. I don't have an opinion on whether or not that's The second part of your question was saying, doesn't that mean that that means it's not required by ADA? I don't believe that that, so I can't answer the second part of your question. Okay. The language in the settlement agreement is technically to the fountain, however, |
| 03:41:03.65 | Linda Pfeifer | Okay. |
| 03:41:08.45 | Mary Wagner | And this is the answer I gave you before also. The plan that was approved for access included access around the fountain. |
| 03:41:15.48 | Linda Pfeifer | Hmm. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. |
| 03:41:18.02 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 03:41:18.04 | Herb Weiner | Okay, any other questions up here? All right, Daryl, well then. You have a preference to pick? Anybody? |
| 03:41:28.00 | Linda Pfeifer | Well, I'd like to, if I may, Mr. Mayor, weigh in on this. Go ahead. |
| 03:41:31.67 | Herb Weiner | That's right. |
| 03:41:31.96 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:41:32.74 | Linda Pfeifer | Okay, so my thoughts are, I frankly just found out today about this ordinance, 794A, and This ordinance would basically allow the people to weigh in and let us know Uh, which ADA model they would prefer. And it is an ordinance, and it is on the books. It is advisory. It is non-binding. It's not superseding any law. And for that, I frankly do not feel comfortable supporting either either of these options. Not only do I have a lot of concerns because I don't think we have all the information we need with respect to the impact on the trees, but also because... we have this ordinance that allows people to weigh in on something that is just a jewel in the middle of Sausalito. And so I think we need to abide by our ordinances. With respect to the comment earlier about... whether or not the plaza or the bandstand is a point of interest that and whether or not the remodeling by Emens diminished this as a point of interest that is something that you know is you know possibly I don't know if we weighed in with regards to the State Historic Commission or not but I do think that the 794A just is a game changer for me and it I had a number of concerns with respect to the two proposals before us, but in light of 794A, I would like the people to weigh in. |
| 03:43:23.27 | Herb Weiner | Okay. We have anybody that wants to make a preference in a movie? |
| 03:43:26.42 | Mike Kelly | to make a preference and a move? Well, let me just make a statement. We've studied this. We have one of the premier firms in the state of California, if not the nation, weighing in on several alternatives. In fact, a very simple one. My friend and all of our friends, Bill Werner, our friend Bill Werner has weighed in, take out the landing, and build the access this way. Uh, I see people and children playing in that park. I have no interest in closing that park up. I go up there and the kids are having a wonderful time. They're running through there with their balloons and one thing or another. It's just terrific. That's what parks are for, not to be fenced in and looked at as some kind of a relic. And also, I'm just, again, amazed that you want the people to weigh in on this, but you don't want them to weigh in on fire consolidation. So I find that very contradictory. |
| 03:44:23.80 | Linda Pfeifer | Mr. Mayor, if I may. |
| 03:44:24.48 | Mike Kelly | If I may. You're done. Sure. Okay. |
| 03:44:26.89 | Mary Richardson | you |
| 03:44:27.23 | Linda Pfeifer | Mr. Mayor, if I may respond. |
| 03:44:27.24 | Mary Richardson | Mr. Mayor. |
| 03:44:29.66 | Linda Pfeifer | So I do want the people to weigh in on fire consolidation. We were voting on the LAFCO application tonight. That's why LAFCO was here. That's why the board was here to answer our questions. Council Member Kelly. |
| 03:44:40.49 | Mary Richardson | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 03:44:41.57 | Linda Pfeifer | And with respect to the ballot, I always support the process of democracy as I support it now, and I also support a binding via ordinances, of which 794A is one. |
| 03:44:54.33 | Herb Weiner | All right. Okay, look, do we have a preference? Are we going to sit here and talk about it for another hour? |
| 03:44:58.93 | Carolyn Ford | Oh man. Mr. Mayor. |
| 03:45:02.21 | Herb Weiner | Go ahead, Carolyn. |
| 03:45:02.76 | Carolyn Ford | All the way in. |
| 03:45:03.08 | Jim Irving | Thank you. |
| 03:45:03.96 | Carolyn Ford | Um, There are several things that came out of the public comments tonight that I agree with. Viña del Mar is a jewel right in our downtown area. Someone said the park has been slowly deteriorating. And horticulturally, I think that's true. I think the fountain is still fine, with the There are plants that have died around the edge. There's a princess tree that's just sitting there with a standing there with very few leaves on it as just branches. I think we have to take care of the horticulture, and I'm always talking about this, but I think we have to take care of those canary palms. And I'm glad that Ed Gurka has weighed in. I took the tour with him as well. But I think we need the canary palm expert that he mentioned to weigh in on those palms to make sure we don't lose them. We haven't done anything with them in a while, and I understand our public works department is going to look at them. But anyway, the horticulture needs attention. The, I'm sort of, keeping as much of the green grass as we can And to put a large path around there, I think, is a mistake. I'm also not happy with putting a path through the park for the same reason, and I think it destroys the cemetery. You said Symmetry. |
| 03:46:47.73 | Herb Weiner | Bye. |
| 03:46:47.78 | Jonathan Leone | Don't let anybody in there. There will be a cemetery. There probably are people. |
| 03:46:48.84 | Herb Weiner | in the room Okay. Anyway. Anyway. |
| 03:46:52.62 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 03:46:52.64 | Jonathan Leone | Anyway. |
| 03:46:53.50 | Carolyn Ford | Anyway, I think it destroys the symmetry a bit. But... And I also like the idea of a platform, because it gives you the idea that you're going to step up and do something special, which I think Viña del Mar is. Um, But if I had to choose between that one and that one, I would choose that one. But I don't think that's the only answer. I think we have another option that Jacques recommended. I think we should still consider just doing the ramp, which is the cheapest of all. and closing the park but opening it for special events like the Viña del Mar event that we had there, special ceremonial events that the city wants to have there, wheel the people in through the side entrance for those special events and let it go with that. But we have to protect the horticulture. |
| 03:47:57.22 | Mike Kelly | I make a motion that we... |
| 03:47:59.40 | Jonathan Leone | Go ahead, Council Member Leon. No, I don't want to talk. I just want to make a motion, but I want to do it before you do. So I would suggest, I would make a motion to proceed with, to come back with a modified no landing plan with more specific drawings and, and, and |
| 03:47:59.85 | Mike Kelly | Council member Leon? |
| 03:48:16.96 | Jonathan Leone | having the width of the new proposed Portland cement access to the fountain being determined by what would meet ADA compliance and just what makes common sense circulation because if you get two wheelchairs together, you might not meet some distance and all that other stuff. So, but with that, maybe call out, you know, that we have sort of a rough plan where benches and things are, but it doesn't really give you a sense of what would be permanent and what wouldn't, and I think When we started out this, Paul, five years ago that I, well, I've seen your plan many years ago but when it came back through the city council, I was very much in favor of this. but That was before I realized that this landing was created when it was the brick craze of the 70s, to put brick everywhere in the world, and that would make it all look historical. And that's what happened here. or degraded the site. uh... so much to create this, which is really a dysfunctional bandstand because it has no elevation to speak of really. This was an attempt to do something that, and I know you didn't design the fan stand. Tell me if you did. No, but, um, that I think trying to hold onto that bandstand and creating these two alternate ways to hold out and the reason to hold onto the bandstand, I don't think that's worth doing given that it's not part of the historic character of the park. And with that, I agree with you as far as the plants. We need to do a better job of maintaining and and caring for what's there and provide for adequate distance for any new construction and all that good stuff. But I think this alternative, though I'm not a fan usually of D, deconstructing things because this deconstruction is really something that was added later with someone's great idea, but not with an eye or with an appreciation to the history of what this park is. that I would go for this modified plan. Now, I agree with you generally about decomposed granite is a better solution. But here, given the historic context and that we're trying to make this work with resuscitating the historic validity of this site without being faux historic, I would |
| 03:50:32.62 | Mike Kelly | in. |
| 03:50:50.83 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. to move towards the Portland cement and minimize it as much as possible, as Schock was mentioning before. So I'll make a motion to have staff work with whatever professionals required here and it doesn't have to be page inter will be somebody move much more affordable come up with a revised plan for the Portland cement access and the removal of the landing, which would be a little more detailed and designate what would be permanent installations as far as other things. Also, assess, because right now, at least on this diagram, you have things replacing what the railings were. And maybe that's not what you want. If you look back on the old photos, there was nothing there. Just a couple of benches. So you could go right in instead of having a railing. So but with that, you know, we investigate all those alternatives and come back to the council before it goes to the planning commission. uh, where the HLB So as the project owner, which we're trying to do generally, is make sure we have some direction before it goes through the the meat grinder. |
| 03:51:54.23 | Mike Kelly | The only thing I would add to that is that it meets the Secretary's standards and we try to do it under CEQA with a categorical exemption. |
| 03:51:56.32 | Jonathan Leone | Councilmember. standards? |
| 03:52:04.84 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 03:52:04.86 | Jonathan Leone | Yes, I agree with that. And also for the city attorney to certainly investigate this other thing. |
| 03:52:06.75 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 03:52:06.77 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 03:52:06.78 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 03:52:06.97 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 03:52:06.99 | Mike Kelly | Bye. |
| 03:52:07.04 | Herb Weiner | All right. |
| 03:52:07.07 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 03:52:07.27 | Herb Weiner | Oh yeah. |
| 03:52:07.56 | Mike Kelly | And, |
| 03:52:12.54 | Linda Pfeifer | So an amendment with respect to the city attorney coming back to us with an opinion on the |
| 03:52:20.01 | Jonathan Leone | No, that's not it. |
| 03:52:20.82 | Herb Weiner | And then, We'll be right back. |
| 03:52:22.06 | Jonathan Leone | just |
| 03:52:22.22 | Herb Weiner | to the Bring it back. |
| 03:52:22.63 | Jonathan Leone | We'll research it and bring it back. Right. When he comes back to us the next time she's part of the staff report. |
| 03:52:26.90 | Linda Pfeifer | will be 794A. . |
| 03:52:29.23 | Mike Kelly | you |
| 03:52:29.31 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 03:52:29.65 | Mike Kelly | but you'll understand. |
| 03:52:29.83 | Linda Pfeifer | You'll include an assessment of 794A? No, no. |
| 03:52:31.94 | Mike Kelly | I have 94A. |
| 03:52:33.51 | Linda Pfeifer | Well, I would like, my amendments is to include |
| 03:52:33.70 | Mike Kelly | I- |
| 03:52:33.97 | Mike Kelly | with Long Island. |
| 03:52:34.52 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 03:52:34.58 | Mike Kelly | See, ladies. |
| 03:52:38.41 | Linda Pfeifer | to have a legal counsel weigh in on Ordinance 794A. And |
| 03:52:45.97 | Carolyn Ford | Um... I know we have a motion on the table and an amended motion on the table. And I'm sorry to do this, but I have a replacement motion. I think that this needs to be... |
| 03:52:48.80 | Linda Pfeifer | But... |
| 03:53:02.91 | Carolyn Ford | Given to the Planning Commission. |
| 03:53:07.45 | Herb Weiner | Excuse me. Go ahead. You got a motion? |
| 03:53:13.05 | Carolyn Ford | I think we need input and i think we need ideas i'm looking at this one i'm looking at that one and i've got a cost for both of them, but I heard Jacques say, that if we had a pathway just to the fountain, we wouldn't have to have that walkway around the fountain. And I heard Councilmember |
| 03:53:36.96 | Susan Rowe | And I think that's a good question. |
| 03:53:37.27 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah. |
| 03:53:37.28 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 03:53:39.70 | Carolyn Ford | Um, Pfeiffer asked about the legal interpretation of whether we actually needed a path around that fountain. And I'd like to know the answer to that before we proceed, because I think it's important that we preserve as much of this park as we can and the greenery in it and the horticulture. So before we just say, okay, it's going to be this or that, I think we need this kind of input to answer the questions that were raised tonight. And I don't think, you know, this will, set us back that much, we just need to explore all the ideas and come up with what the residents think is best, what we think is best. |
| 03:54:30.86 | Linda Pfeifer | And I will second that. |
| 03:54:30.90 | Carolyn Ford | Bye. Bye. you |
| 03:54:32.70 | Linda Pfeifer | Well, I... |
| 03:54:32.72 | Carolyn Ford | Well, I will make a motion. I will make a motion. |
| 03:54:34.59 | Linda Pfeifer | I want a promotion. |
| 03:54:35.87 | Herb Weiner | Excuse me, let's clean this up and move on. |
| 03:54:35.92 | Carolyn Ford | I apologize. Okay, I would move that we get the answer to whether or not we need a pathway around the fountain. that we get the If we get a pathway, we get the information of how wide it needs to be. that we get a Horticulture report. And that we consider the idea of having just one pathway that leads to the the fountain. I'm sorry that's the long motion. OK, we have a motion on the floor. |
| 03:55:28.29 | Herb Weiner | Okay, we have a motion on the floor. |
| 03:55:30.97 | Jonathan Leone | I really don't quite understand. |
| 03:55:31.26 | Herb Weiner | Yeah. |
| 03:55:31.63 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 03:55:31.73 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. I really don't quite... |
| 03:55:35.02 | Jonathan Leone | Before you call the vote, I don't really understand the goal of whether it's taking it to a public vote or to Um, Why would you deny someone in a wheelchair? |
| 03:55:47.00 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 03:55:47.32 | Jonathan Leone | the opportunity |
| 03:55:48.08 | Unknown | the thing. |
| 03:55:48.47 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. to go somewhat around a fountain. |
| 03:55:52.01 | Unknown | Right. I think it's a good thing. |
| 03:55:52.60 | Jonathan Leone | With a minimal width path that you've already had a degraded site because of actions that were taken in the past. It doesn't qualify in and of itself. |
| 03:55:52.70 | Unknown | with the... Bye. |
| 03:56:00.57 | Jonathan Leone | to be part of the National Registry, so why would you deny the handicapped person the ability to enter this park and to get more than a four foot or whatever width opportunity to be near that town if they so want to. What's your, does that, does that, that's the whole purpose of ADA access. |
| 03:56:22.08 | Linda Pfeifer | I'm going to go. |
| 03:56:22.17 | Carolyn Ford | Sure. |
| 03:56:22.46 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. Thank you. Is that? |
| 03:56:29.54 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 03:56:29.76 | Carolyn Ford | Mr. Mayor. you |
| 03:56:30.73 | Linda Pfeifer | Bye. |
| 03:56:30.93 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 03:56:31.11 | Herb Weiner | I would... Excuse me. Excuse me. There's a motion. There is a motion. |
| 03:56:31.13 | Linda Pfeifer | Bye. |
| 03:56:31.15 | Jonathan Leone | I will. |
| 03:56:31.97 | Linda Pfeifer | Excuse me. I second. And I would- |
| 03:56:38.52 | Herb Weiner | I wish. |
| 03:56:39.75 | Linda Pfeifer | No, excuse me, point of order? |
| 03:56:41.00 | Herb Weiner | you |
| 03:56:42.94 | Linda Pfeifer | I would like to, Mr. Mayor, respond to what was just said. |
| 03:56:47.51 | Herb Weiner | He's just saying. |
| 03:56:48.11 | Linda Pfeifer | you |
| 03:56:48.27 | Herb Weiner | No, I called for the vote. We can't go back. Listen. |
| 03:56:48.34 | Linda Pfeifer | No, I... |
| 03:56:53.79 | Herb Weiner | We have people up here that basically want it closed. So our idea is we have a motion on there. Let's follow through our motions. I amend the motion. I'd like to share it. And finally get somewhere. |
| 03:56:58.47 | Linda Pfeifer | I... |
| 03:56:58.97 | Mary Richardson | Thank you. |
| 03:56:59.08 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. as we have. I am making the motion. I'd like to move. |
| 03:57:04.64 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 03:57:04.75 | Linda Pfeifer | I, I, no. |
| 03:57:04.76 | Mike Kelly | I know. |
| 03:57:05.89 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 03:57:05.91 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 03:57:06.16 | Linda Pfeifer | I would like to amend the motion, which is just a do one amendment, which is to include that our legal counsel weigh in on ordinance 794. A, with respect to its applicability to allow the citizens to weigh in on, via ballot measure on the on the whatever we're looking at. |
| 03:57:29.30 | Herb Weiner | Excuse me, how many motions do I have on the table here? I mean, I'm getting lost on it. |
| 03:57:29.91 | Linda Pfeifer | There's just a way. |
| 03:57:35.44 | Linda Pfeifer | Two. |
| 03:57:39.05 | Unknown | SHOWS. Right. |
| 03:57:40.01 | Herb Weiner | Ripley wouldn't believe this. |
| 03:57:41.13 | Unknown | I believe this. motion, you have, wait a second, and you have an amendment that has not been accepted on |
| 03:57:48.72 | Linda Pfeifer | So do I have a second on my amendment? I still get your amendment. Thank you. |
| 03:57:53.63 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:57:53.65 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. All right, okay. Then all in favor? I'll see Paul the second vote. |
| 03:57:56.20 | Paul (Public Commenter) | Thank you. |
| 03:57:56.28 | Jim Irving | I like that. |
| 03:58:00.08 | Linda Pfeifer | So we're voting on Mike. |
| 03:58:01.82 | Linda Pfeifer | your amended motion. |
| 03:58:02.88 | Linda Pfeifer | Councilmember Ford's motion and my amendment. |
| 03:58:03.05 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 03:58:07.69 | Herb Weiner | Okay, and we have a second? Yes, we do. We have a second, so all in favor? |
| 03:58:08.47 | Linda Pfeifer | Okay. Yes, we did. Bye. |
| 03:58:14.03 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. Opposed? No. Okay. |
| 03:58:15.23 | Jim Irving | No. |
| 03:58:16.92 | Unknown | Okay. All right. |
| 03:58:18.39 | Herb Weiner | We'll be right back. |
| 03:58:18.54 | Jim Irving | Let's go. |
| 03:58:18.93 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. you We'll be right back. |
| 03:58:22.98 | Jonathan Leone | these show that that motion failed three to two all right let's go up to the next |
| 03:58:23.13 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 03:58:23.20 | Unknown | So let the rat rat the pecker |
| 03:58:24.65 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 03:58:24.88 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:58:26.64 | Herb Weiner | All right, let's go up to the next motion before I have come over. |
| 03:58:28.38 | Jonathan Leone | before I have come over. |
| 03:58:30.20 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 03:58:30.22 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 03:58:30.23 | Herb Weiner | and |
| 03:58:30.81 | Jonathan Leone | Why don't we just restate the motion? So the motion being... |
| 03:58:32.39 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 03:58:32.44 | Unknown | Wait, wait, wait, wait. |
| 03:58:32.97 | Herb Weiner | Wait, wait. |
| 03:58:33.20 | Jonathan Leone | you |
| 03:58:33.34 | Herb Weiner | Cheers, man. |
| 03:58:34.77 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 03:58:34.79 | Herb Weiner | AND, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO |
| 03:58:34.98 | Jonathan Leone | you |
| 03:58:35.03 | Herb Weiner | Like, |
| 03:58:35.25 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 03:58:35.47 | Unknown | Okay, on the first motion, That was Councilmember Leon with the detailed plans for the Modified no landing, Portland concrete, at minimizing the size as much as possible. and Councilmember Kelly, I mean, Vice Mayor Kelly amended it |
| 03:58:58.21 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 03:58:58.23 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 03:58:58.26 | Mike Kelly | to include. |
| 03:58:58.97 | Jonathan Leone | . |
| 03:58:59.14 | Unknown | to include something. |
| 03:59:00.44 | Jonathan Leone | SEQUA and Secretary of Interior Standards. I can't read my notes. No, both of these. Secretary of Interior Standards and SEQUA. SEQUA not required. |
| 03:59:01.37 | Unknown | and the Secretary of the Interior. I can't read my notes at this point. Yes. |
| 03:59:07.39 | Mike Kelly | I think. Secret not requiring. Secret categorical exemption. |
| 03:59:11.10 | Jonathan Leone | Okay. |
| 03:59:11.58 | Unknown | Okay, that was agreed to. Thank you. |
| 03:59:15.17 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 03:59:15.19 | Mike Kelly | Now. No, there was a second to that. We didn't vote. |
| 03:59:15.36 | Unknown | Now. No, there was a second. No, no, no, no, no, no. You agreed to the amendment. You accepted the amendment. then Councilmember Pfeiffer asked for an amendment to include her 794A legal review. That has not been accepted. And there needs to be a second. |
| 03:59:32.65 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah. There's no second. |
| 03:59:35.37 | Unknown | or not accepted. you Right. It needs to be accepted by the maker of the motion. |
| 03:59:41.97 | Jonathan Leone | Yeah, I think that staff can return in a staff report and deal with that. It doesn't need to be part of the motion. |
| 03:59:42.42 | Unknown | Or not. It is tough. |
| 03:59:48.52 | Jonathan Leone | so we've asked staff to come back and express it doesn't have to be a formal legal I'm so I'm we saw on that |
| 03:59:53.17 | Jim Irving | Yeah. |
| 03:59:53.21 | Herb Weiner | to be a formal legal opinion. All right, so on that, that's |
| 04:00:00.83 | Jonathan Leone | So just call the vote. You got it already. |
| 04:00:01.04 | Herb Weiner | It's just a couple. Okay, it's in the record. All in favor? Aye. |
| 04:00:04.50 | Jonathan Leone | All right. |
| 04:00:09.32 | Herb Weiner | Opposed? |
| 04:00:10.57 | Linda Pfeifer | No. |
| 04:00:12.02 | Herb Weiner | Sounds like a record. Okay. |
| 04:00:12.07 | Linda Pfeifer | Sounds like a wrecking. Okay. you |
| 04:00:14.89 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 04:00:15.97 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 04:00:16.34 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:00:16.36 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 04:00:16.53 | Unknown | Have we finished with this item? Yes. Thank you. |
| 04:00:19.84 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:00:19.95 | Herb Weiner | like, |
| 04:00:20.16 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:00:20.66 | Herb Weiner | All right, moving right along, if you want to call it that. Discussion on the upcoming Transportation Authority of Marin vote to fund Not Too Smart. |
| 04:00:32.90 | Jonathan Leone | Okay, it's my issue. Do we have anything in here? |
| 04:00:36.16 | Herb Weiner | No, I'm just going to give you a verbal report. The Vice Mayor Keller will give us a verbal report. |
| 04:00:36.68 | Mike Kelly | No. |
| 04:00:36.90 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 04:00:36.97 | Mike Kelly | the other side of the city of the federal government take direction if you TAM has been asked by MTA, to to pony up some money along with Sonoma and MTA itself. And the numbers are, They are $43 million short. Uh, MTA will give $10 million. They have asked TAM to give $8 million and they're asking Sonoma to give $3 million. |
| 04:01:09.68 | Jonathan Leone | into |
| 04:01:10.46 | Mary Richardson | Thank you. |
| 04:01:10.97 | Carolyn Ford | you |
| 04:01:11.17 | Mary Richardson | Thank you. |
| 04:01:11.49 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 04:01:11.68 | Mike Kelly | No, Metropolitan Transit, the big one. To give how many again? Would you run through that again? Ten from MTA. |
| 04:01:13.82 | Mary Richardson | The big one. |
| 04:01:14.58 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 04:01:14.60 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:01:16.47 | Carolyn Ford | Yeah. |
| 04:01:18.49 | Mike Kelly | Um, eight from Tam and three from I'm sorry, MTC, you're right, MTC, Metropolitan Transportation Commission, which is the overriding regional authority. |
| 04:01:28.18 | Paul (Public Commenter) | you |
| 04:01:31.77 | Mike Kelly | That comes up to $21 million. |
| 04:01:34.10 | Carolyn Ford | Eight from Tam and two from Sonoma. |
| 04:01:37.16 | Mike Kelly | Three from Sonoma. Three. A from TAM. and 10 from MTC. MTC will then cause another $22 million to come from various places, mostly the state. funding out the $43 million. $43 million closes the gap, gets them the train station to from Sonoma to Santa Felt. Um, I... |
| 04:02:07.97 | Linda Pfeifer | He would be defunded by Sam and... |
| 04:02:11.01 | Mike Kelly | nothing that's current would be defunded from TAM. One and a half million would come from Excess funds that are just laying around that's kind of like loose cash in the bank. $6 million would come from there was a windfall from the motorized non-transportation, the original $25 million, we got another $25 million or something like that. The feds just dumped it on them. So eight of that or six of that would come from that excess, those excess funds. So, Could we use that money on something else? Sure. but there is nothing that it is currently assigned to. It's kind of like, and also we need the good will of MTC. If TAM doesn't do this, the whole thing comes unraveled and basically MTC won't give anything and the 22 goes away and they're $43 million short. The executive committee for TAM that debated it. I was on the ad hoc committee to write a resolution. I have mixed feelings about it. I don't feel good about taking $8 million out of our account. Lots of sad thoughts about Smart. I'm not sure. It's lost its major driver. But on the other hand, everybody in the county and in the region seems geared up to try to help this thing get its sea legs. The rest of it comes from bond money. You probably all read the paper this morning. I asked the question about, you know, are these guys that are trying to stop it serious? It's pretty much a small group of folks who don't have the resources probably to mount a $2 million campaign to try to unwind the whole thing. And you have to remember that Sausalito actually supported it quite heavily. I think we're in the 70% or close to 70% range. The Marin County was at 62. Sonoma was at 69, so that was kind of the the plate. So there is a you'd say a preponderance of support, even at the 50% level, if you took away the folks it My thought is that we should probably support it. So I'll take that. Thank you. |
| 04:04:32.98 | Linda Pfeifer | Councilmember Kelly, Mr. Mayor, if I may ask. |
| 04:04:33.65 | Mike Kelly | you can Yes. |
| 04:04:37.15 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 04:04:37.23 | Mike Kelly | I don't remember the fly-flat. |
| 04:04:38.31 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 04:04:40.67 | Linda Pfeifer | So Did you say that the 8 million, we've got 6 million that are coming from, what is the 6 million coming from? |
| 04:04:50.17 | Mike Kelly | Excess funds that were unexpectedly given to motorized, non-motorized transportation. The original grant was $25 million. It was an additional sum. I think it was 25 million additional given. Wasn't expected windfall. Okay. So it's coming from that windfall. |
| 04:05:05.26 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah. So my next question is a process question, because when I was on the board of the Transportation Authority of Marin, I, brought a measure to the council for a vote to weigh in, and you abstained because you didn't think, you said it was unprecedented. that I did that. That should be what? That, that, I said the president. Okay. Thank you. |
| 04:05:34.56 | Linda Pfeifer | I'm sorry. |
| 04:05:34.59 | Unknown | Depressive. |
| 04:05:34.98 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 04:05:35.03 | Mike Kelly | it. |
| 04:05:35.33 | Linda Pfeifer | Okay. Yeah. Thank you. |
| 04:05:35.97 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 04:05:37.24 | Linda Pfeifer | So now you're bringing this here for us to weigh in. I just think it's ironic. |
| 04:05:37.86 | Mike Kelly | this year for us to weigh in. I was under no. I was under no obligation to come back to you. I could just vote it by conscience, I suppose, but I decided to let you wait. |
| 04:05:47.77 | Linda Pfeifer | Bye. Just a comment. |
| 04:05:51.43 | Mike Kelly | Oh, let's keep it better. I don't want to waste a lot of time debating this. |
| 04:05:54.84 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 04:05:54.86 | Mary Richardson | It's a good thing. |
| 04:05:54.94 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 04:05:54.96 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 04:05:54.99 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 04:05:55.01 | Mary Richardson | Bye. |
| 04:05:55.13 | Carolyn Ford | Bye. |
| 04:05:55.24 | Herb Weiner | I'm sorry. |
| 04:05:56.53 | Carolyn Ford | Yeah, I think, Mr. Mayor, |
| 04:05:58.58 | Herb Weiner | Council Member Ford. |
| 04:05:59.85 | Carolyn Ford | I would like to say that I think this project has changed considerably. since the voters voted for it. And as I understand it now, and I certainly don't have all the details, I just know what I read in the paper, it's only going to go from Santa Rosa to the Civic Center. |
| 04:06:25.40 | Linda Pfeifer | I'm not sure. Let's go to the center of the bell. |
| 04:06:27.09 | Carolyn Ford | Oh, it is going to San Rafael? |
| 04:06:27.64 | Linda Pfeifer | to San Rafael? |
| 04:06:33.77 | Carolyn Ford | So it would go to San Rafael Transportation Center and that's where it will be in. I... I don't think I know enough about it to say yes, go ahead and I I'm not sure I want to say no, don't. I think I'm going to have to abstain on this because I don't have all the details. I would lean towards saying no, because I think it's... |
| 04:06:58.88 | Herb Weiner | of Bye. |
| 04:07:03.59 | Herb Weiner | Well, like he said, he could have voted and not brought a Tuesday. |
| 04:07:05.97 | Adam Politzer | Adam, go ahead. I just wanted to make one point of clarification and then one comment. is the excess money has come because the reappropriation of the money kept coming because they never took action to remove it, so the money continued. But the understanding is that with the changing of either the Congressional seat or the Senate, seats from Minnesota, I believe. I'm not sure which northern state. |
| 04:07:31.90 | Mike Kelly | is over. |
| 04:07:32.56 | Adam Politzer | Yeah, they went to a Republican and they are not in support of this type of project so that money is going to dry up at some point. The comment I wanted to make was that the Marine Managers heard a presentation from Tam on this proposal. And there were several mixed feelings. One, I think we all support the idea of a train from Santa Rosa down to San Rafael, I think we all understand the benefits to that. Um, But when they talked about that $6 million, We know that every time TAMS put out a request proposals and projects. there's more than more projects that come forward. than they have funding to pay for. So, We feel that there's plenty of demand for that $6 million. and we can tell you right here in Sausalito We have a $30 million project that we brought in front of the council. We also have a non-motorized transportation project that we had the 90,000 that gave us a plan. that's got a huge dollar attached to it to get from Gate 6 Road to the ferry. let alone the small project that they actually funded the construction on anchor and Bay where we have a missing piece there from the ferry landing to Humboldt into Lot 3 to continue that whole connectivity of the downtown parking lot. So the, you know, and then each manager could say their own projects in their own town. We have mixed feelings. We want to see the SMART program continue, so I think we're under the same concern that Mike has raised this evening. but we want to make sure there's no disillusioned that there's not a need for that $6 million to do other projects. |
| 04:09:14.03 | Linda Pfeifer | you |
| 04:09:14.10 | Jonathan Leone | the same. you Is it the same person who did the, is there a new administrator for TAM? Yeah. Oh, for TAM? |
| 04:09:15.28 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 04:09:15.30 | Adam Politzer | Okay, tell some members of the young. Um, |
| 04:09:24.39 | Mike Kelly | Yeah. |
| 04:09:25.66 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:09:25.91 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. you |
| 04:09:26.65 | Jonathan Leone | Yeah. |
| 04:09:26.98 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 04:09:27.02 | Jonathan Leone | That's a new smart one. |
| 04:09:27.36 | Mike Kelly | Go ahead. |
| 04:09:28.04 | Unknown | Because it was smart. |
| 04:09:29.37 | Linda Pfeifer | All right. |
| 04:09:29.42 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:09:29.45 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 04:09:29.56 | Unknown | Bye. |
| 04:09:29.57 | Linda Pfeifer | or, |
| 04:09:29.79 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:09:29.94 | Unknown | Yeah. Thank you. |
| 04:09:30.03 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 04:09:30.11 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:09:30.38 | Unknown | . |
| 04:09:30.43 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 04:09:30.45 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. So where did the other 19 million of the 25 go in this unexpected windfall? |
| 04:09:32.34 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 04:09:38.13 | Mike Kelly | and it's still kicking around. |
| 04:09:42.57 | Jonathan Leone | and how did they come up with six? |
| 04:09:45.62 | Mike Kelly | No, 8 was the allocation. MTC came up with the numbers. |
| 04:09:49.35 | Jonathan Leone | or 8, 5, 8. Okay. |
| 04:09:52.49 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 04:09:52.59 | Jonathan Leone | you So, I don't know, I mean, I... |
| 04:10:00.02 | Jonathan Leone | I've never publicly expressed support for SMART because I think it's funded incorrectly through a sales tax measure because that's, as Charlie would say, it's a very elastic form of funding that doesn't meet a capital project fairly well. I'm concerned that you know, it doesn't have the leadership at hand, and that it's momentum driven at the moment. But, um, |
| 04:10:35.74 | Jonathan Leone | So, and could that money be used for other things that are equally or? |
| 04:10:41.11 | Mike Kelly | I'll say this publicly. I think the motion is going to pass with or without us. Okay. I think they've got enough votes to do it. |
| 04:10:42.39 | Jonathan Leone | I think the boat |
| 04:10:42.96 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 04:10:42.98 | Jonathan Leone | Yes. |
| 04:10:43.18 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 04:10:48.31 | Jonathan Leone | Right, which is interesting because if you called when they were here for what was the thing we just put on the ballot last fall? Measure, was it measure A or whatever for the... |
| 04:10:49.59 | Mike Kelly | because |
| 04:10:59.50 | Jonathan Leone | the VMV, $10, whatever it is. And we asked them, hey, I think it barely |
| 04:11:01.37 | Mary Richardson | Thank you. |
| 04:11:01.39 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 04:11:05.24 | Jonathan Leone | I don't know if we passed or not here or not. It did pass by one vote. And I said, you've got to come back and tell me where the money's coming, where we're benefiting. They don't care. They don't care about sausage. |
| 04:11:08.41 | Linda Pfeifer | like that. |
| 04:11:14.60 | Mary Richardson | Oh. |
| 04:11:15.26 | Jonathan Leone | You're trying to change that. |
| 04:11:16.78 | Mary Richardson | You're trying to change that, but... |
| 04:11:19.46 | Jonathan Leone | But the management of that organization, I think, is very unresponsive to our local needs. They're focused on highway and other projects. Which this is an alternative to the highway, obviously. |
| 04:11:24.26 | Mike Kelly | I'm not sure. |
| 04:11:27.70 | Mike Kelly | They're fine. |
| 04:11:29.60 | Mike Kelly | So |
| 04:11:36.37 | Jonathan Leone | But I don't think it solved the problem, which is the other half. |
| 04:11:39.36 | Mike Kelly | I don't, you know. I'm not going to make any argument for smart. I think I'm ordered against it. You do. |
| 04:11:45.45 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 04:11:45.50 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 04:11:45.52 | Mike Kelly | Yeah. |
| 04:11:46.41 | Mike Kelly | Um... I can't remember now. I was on the fence. I couldn't remember. I don't remember which way I heard it, actually. But I'll say this, that we can, there is some, |
| 04:11:51.00 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 04:11:57.79 | Mike Kelly | There is some benefit to us working the system, lobbying TAM, working with TAM, making a relationship with TAM, and using Kate's good office now to do that and making sure that we're getting, if not our fair share, even more than our fair share of project money toward things that are really important. I don't think we've done that in the past. I think we just kind of blew it off. We're not on the executive committee, for example. Mill Valley is. So I think it's working the system. If our idea is that, okay, we don't care, whatever TAM does, they do, and you know, we're going to always be the stepchild, probably it doesn't matter what we vote. If if we vote yes on this as a result of wanting to be part of the the team and give it our best realizing that our share of that six million dollars might be two hundred thousand or three hundred thousand or something like that if that if they can use it for all kinds of different stuff and I would be the first to tell you that they have lots of lots of pockets in which to put it right they've got lots of places to, but on the other hand, this is one of those where you're being asked to pony up at the altar and do the good thing and then there will be future promises, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, which may never materialize. |
| 04:12:18.66 | Mike Kelly | I'm sorry. |
| 04:12:18.73 | Mary Richardson | I'm not sure. |
| 04:12:32.60 | Mike Kelly | I know. |
| 04:13:05.73 | Mike Kelly | and lots of people. |
| 04:13:20.63 | Carolyn Ford | Mr. Mayor. |
| 04:13:21.60 | Mike Kelly | this. |
| 04:13:21.74 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 04:13:21.76 | Jim Irving | Thank you. |
| 04:13:21.79 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 04:13:21.81 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 04:13:21.91 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 04:13:22.21 | Carolyn Ford | All right. |
| 04:13:22.23 | Mike Kelly | That's right. |
| 04:13:22.67 | Jim Irving | Thank you. Council member Ford. |
| 04:13:23.29 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 04:13:24.69 | Carolyn Ford | Mr. Mayor, the longer I sit here and think about it, the more I am leaning to no. In fact, I know I'm going to say no on this because... Tant and I'm smart really doesn't have a long term plan and that bothers me they they |
| 04:13:41.26 | Linda Pfeifer | Matt. |
| 04:13:41.62 | Jim Irving | Bye. |
| 04:13:49.15 | Carolyn Ford | They have cut back. And I just feel that it's not a good not a good thing. |
| 04:13:56.74 | Mike Kelly | Not to defend them at all, but the numbers that they... They chill back. |
| 04:14:00.30 | Jim Irving | I'm gonna chill back. |
| 04:14:01.45 | Mike Kelly | They've scaled it back. They've knocked out stations. They've knocked out bridge repairs. They've knocked out this. They've knocked out that. |
| 04:14:03.57 | Jim Irving | Yeah. |
| 04:14:04.00 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 04:14:04.58 | Jim Irving | Right. |
| 04:14:05.04 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 04:14:08.25 | Mike Kelly | They're down to a number which by their you know, accounting would get trains bought, stations built to make the line work from Sonoma Street. Will those numbers change? Invariably. Will they change down? Probably not. No. But, you know, it's... I can't. It's what it is. |
| 04:14:20.28 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. Right. |
| 04:14:23.32 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 04:14:25.83 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 04:14:25.97 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 04:14:26.07 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. you |
| 04:14:26.56 | Herb Weiner | you |
| 04:14:26.79 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 04:14:26.83 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 04:14:30.96 | Linda Pfeifer | Mr. Mayor, if I may. |
| 04:14:33.00 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. Member Pfeiffer. |
| 04:14:34.01 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. So I have never been a smart train advocate. I'm a member of Audubon. and was very concerned over the infill and the disruption to endangered species bird habitat that the bike path along there was going to be causing and um the articles that I've read since you know it started it just seems like it's a project that is wrought with a lot of, it's been changed a lot I don't think this is going to be the last time that they're going to come up short And I just think that things they need to step back and kind of recalibrate and... You know, I... This is going to be no for me as well. |
| 04:15:30.68 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 04:15:30.70 | Herb Weiner | well. I really didn't like the system. I really wanted buses to go in a lane in the middle all the way up. I didn't like smart, but I will say one thing. |
| 04:15:48.03 | Herb Weiner | We need some kind of help or transportation help along that corridor. If you really look and are aware of what goes through Navajo and Petaluma and the amount of traffic that comes down there, You just can't let this just sit and not do anything. It's not going to get better. It's going to get worse. Gasoline prices, they're not going to go down much. They're going to keep on going up. So we have to just bite the bullet somewhere and have some alternate. You I understand what you talked about from the environmental. but Uh... we have to make some stand on our carbon footprint. Automobiles are an unbelievable polluter, and to just let them pile up along 101 and not attempt to do anything. that doesn't fit with me, that fits with me even worse. So I don't like it, but I I just think that we have to do something. I don't know if you've ever been up on 101 to see what that traffic is, coming back and forth from Novato, and in that matter, Terralinda. So, Miss Keele. |
| 04:17:06.30 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. you |
| 04:17:07.19 | Herb Weiner | I'm going to just leave it that way and go ahead, Council Member Fyper. |
| 04:17:07.76 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 04:17:13.85 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I was just going to say that's my commute every day. So I'm very familiar with it. And I try to telework whenever I can to, you know, save on my carbon footprint. And I recognize the need for strategies. So I just wanted to say I concur. I understand. |
| 04:17:19.09 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:17:19.10 | Herb Weiner | I'm familiar with you. |
| 04:17:19.83 | Unknown | There you go. |
| 04:17:21.09 | Mary Richardson | Amen. |
| 04:17:21.48 | Unknown | . |
| 04:17:32.22 | Mike Kelly | I concur, I understand. |
| 04:17:33.57 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 04:17:33.70 | Mike Kelly | I think it's going to pass. So I'd be inclined to |
| 04:17:33.72 | Unknown | Bye. |
| 04:17:34.04 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 04:17:34.73 | Unknown | you |
| 04:17:39.91 | Herb Weiner | You could have voted on this without the Senate. I could have, yeah. Okay. And we thank you for bringing it up to us. |
| 04:17:41.26 | Mike Kelly | out. Okay. And we thank I would tend to recommend that we go along, get along, and see what that goes in terms of relationships. |
| 04:17:56.94 | Carolyn Ford | I have a question in that regard. Does TAM decide, Mr. Mayor, sorry, does TAM decide who gets the non... |
| 04:18:07.55 | Herb Weiner | Motorized. |
| 04:18:07.79 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. Motorized funds or does is that someone else in the county? Tam decides that? |
| 04:18:08.29 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:18:12.21 | Herb Weiner | Dissoy said. |
| 04:18:14.03 | Carolyn Ford | Well, then I think we should request that they give it to Sausalito for the south end of town. It's a better project. Bye. |
| 04:18:21.03 | Mike Kelly | I think we'd have a lot better, yeah. But I think we might have a better chance of getting more money to sell it if we probably went along with this. |
| 04:18:21.68 | Mary Richardson | THE END OF THE END OF THE Bye. |
| 04:18:28.56 | Linda Pfeifer | So, Mr. Mayor, if I may, point of process. So, Council Member Kelly, are you going to make a motion to vote on this then so that you can... I presume this is why you brought it here, because otherwise I'll make a motion because It seems to me. I mean, I'm trying to understand what is the process. |
| 04:18:46.92 | Herb Weiner | Well, he's... I, I, Well, as he said, he could have voted and not brought it here, but he felt that it should be brought here, just if anything informational, and there we are sitting here saying that we have a choice now of whether we vote for or against, that simple. |
| 04:19:07.05 | Mary Wagner | So we need a motion. Mr. Mayor, I apologize. Have you taken public comment? |
| 04:19:07.49 | Linda Pfeifer | to be able to get the |
| 04:19:07.54 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 04:19:07.56 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 04:19:07.71 | Herb Weiner | Yeah. |
| 04:19:07.75 | Linda Pfeifer | Bye. |
| 04:19:07.80 | Herb Weiner | Bye. |
| 04:19:07.83 | Linda Pfeifer | Bye. |
| 04:19:10.92 | Jonathan Leone | No. No. We need to take a couple of comments. Mike, who's the county reps now on this? |
| 04:19:11.27 | Mary Wagner | No. Thank you. |
| 04:19:11.88 | Mary Richardson | Yeah. |
| 04:19:12.10 | Mike Kelly | . |
| 04:19:12.30 | Mary Richardson | Thank you. |
| 04:19:12.32 | Herb Weiner | Yeah. |
| 04:19:12.39 | Mary Richardson | Yeah. |
| 04:19:12.57 | Mike Kelly | I don't know. |
| 04:19:13.60 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 04:19:17.36 | Mike Kelly | I'm sorry? |
| 04:19:18.06 | Jonathan Leone | as the county rep on this now. |
| 04:19:20.18 | Mike Kelly | All the supervisors are on it. Thank you. |
| 04:19:23.18 | Jonathan Leone | on the board. |
| 04:19:23.79 | Mike Kelly | Yeah. Thank you. |
| 04:19:24.57 | Herb Weiner | Okay, let's hear from the public, Vicky. |
| 04:19:32.18 | Vicki Nichols | Vicki Nichols, first of all, I'd like to thank Councilmember Kelly. He and I had a brief conversation about this and I did attend the June 2nd meeting about this, being concerned about the $8 million being asked for from our area and 3 million from Sonoma. When you think about that logistically, there's a lot more people in Sonoma than there is here. So we had trouble with, I at least had trouble with, how do they get 8 million for us, et cetera. Never got a really good answer. At least we didn't feel like we did from Diane Steinhauer in the county meeting. But, I understand Mr. Kelly's point about maybe just setting relationships, but he was on the ad hoc committee and they did make an amendment saying that the Projects that were already committed could not be yanked back, which would have meant that the bike path situation that you've all balanced your budget on, that money could have been yanked. So I think you need to thank him for that. as well as I think it was Stephanie Moulton-Peters and several others that did that. But I have a further concern, and that is that When this came up during SMART, TAM said that they would not be asking for any more money. They've come back and if nothing else, ethically or just their integrity is shot in my mind because now they are coming back and asking for more money. But I think there was a commitment through your amendment saying that the projects for 30 and 2035 would not be impacted by this. Nothing's been said about 2040, and no one's talking about that. They need to be pinned down on that. Those are future projects where they could say, because they're basically saying, well, yeah, in theory we agreed that we wouldn't ask for any more money. Those are funding points. It's funding points. |
| 04:21:21.02 | Mike Kelly | Right. It's funding. |
| 04:21:23.93 | Vicki Nichols | Thank you. So you may be giving them the $8 million now, and they're saying, we're not going to touch anything that you've already committed to. They are very wiggly on anything else. And it also means they'd be going back double dipping on stuff that we could have locally asked for through MTC. They're going to be coming back and asking for money. So you're going to give them $8 million. and then they're going to come back and bump you out for the other. I know we have to do something. I have tremendous... I have gone on the record as not being for it. They don't have a good financial plan. The new person that's going to head it is the county public work director. He's been moved over there. with all due respect to him, I'm not sure about his financial background. So, if you sat through this meeting, you would feel, I feel Mike's in a bad spot. It probably is going to pass. Mayo Burrow and Kinsey are just lobbying everybody really hard. And, You know, I don't know. I think it should be a no vote. It's a bad deal. |
| 04:22:25.57 | Mike Kelly | It's a bad deal. Yeah, Ross said yes. Mill Valley said yes. I don't know what Tiburon said, if anything. Senator Fell said yes. Larkspers, I think, said yes, even though they don't get any of it anymore, although they were on the fence anyway. The big no is Novato, and they're mad because they're not getting their station. Yeah. |
| 04:22:47.81 | Carolyn Ford | Yeah, I move we vote no on this until SMART has developed a long-term plan. |
| 04:22:56.33 | Linda Pfeifer | I second. |
| 04:23:00.10 | Herb Weiner | All in favor. |
| 04:23:02.14 | Carolyn Ford | I... Aye. |
| 04:23:04.87 | Jonathan Leone | I'm going to vote aye. I can't. I just think it's a mess, man. And in all deference to Charles McClatchon, I think the thing is a mess. |
| 04:23:09.56 | Jim Irving | And then all the time. |
| 04:23:10.09 | Charlie Francis | that, |
| 04:23:12.57 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 04:23:13.01 | Jim Irving | Opposed? Okay. |
| 04:23:17.31 | Mike Kelly | So that was three again? Thank you. |
| 04:23:19.30 | Jim Irving | Thank you. |
| 04:23:19.57 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 04:23:19.59 | Jim Irving | Thank you. |
| 04:23:21.95 | Jonathan Leone | I didn't get any calls from Alboro to anybody else. So. No. You will have on. |
| 04:23:22.32 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:23:22.62 | Johnston Melbostad | Thank you. |
| 04:23:22.71 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 04:23:23.01 | Linda Pfeifer | . Thank you. So. No. He sat next to me today. |
| 04:23:27.55 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 04:23:27.59 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 04:23:27.60 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 04:23:28.70 | Herb Weiner | Sorry, if we... |
| 04:23:29.75 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah. |
| 04:23:29.97 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 04:23:30.00 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 04:23:30.69 | Linda Pfeifer | you |
| 04:23:30.98 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 04:23:31.30 | Herb Weiner | Okay, believe it or not, we're at city manager's report. |
| 04:23:33.53 | Jim Irving | City Manager's report. Thank you. you |
| 04:23:37.12 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 04:23:37.20 | Jim Irving | Thank you. |
| 04:23:37.27 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 04:23:37.36 | Jim Irving | Thank you. |
| 04:23:37.54 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 04:23:37.56 | Jim Irving | Thank you. |
| 04:23:38.13 | Herb Weiner | Adam? |
| 04:23:38.60 | Jim Irving | Thank you. And then you Sorry, we're running an hour late. |
| 04:23:47.94 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 04:23:50.05 | Adam Politzer | Thank you. Very quickly, just a reminder, MCCMC tomorrow evening at Spinnaker, 6 o'clock. |
| 04:23:55.43 | Linda Pfeifer | I'm sorry. |
| 04:23:59.89 | Adam Politzer | I think we'll be celebrating once again as we did this morning the appointment of Kate Sears to our district's county supervisor's position. I understand she'll be there tomorrow night and be introduced to the rest of the council members in the county. So get there early and have an opportunity to introduce her to your fellow colleagues. We've been in several meetings with our friends and neighbors on Spencer Avenue. Um, We've done all types of different studies with stealth radar, with our vets out there with radar, with the neighbors, giving them the radar gun. documenting license plates and speeds, and we've, engaged a traffic engineer. and have come back. with the recommendation to the neighborhood to install stop signs at the intersection of Booker and Spencer. That'll come forward in a more formal recommendation from our Public Works Director. We are now doing the next level of assessment which is asking all the neighbors on Spencer Avenue and the surrounding immediate area to weigh in and we may hear different feedback. What's coming from this is folks aren't happy that all of the information come from coming from the police department to VIPs to neighbors, Our staff. Um, radar that was 24-7 for two consecutive weeks all came back with basically the 85 percentile or greater at the speed of 25 miles an hour. And the folks on that street, some more vocal than others, feel that we need to change the speed limit to less than 15 miles an hour, 15 miles an hour or less. And there's no data to support that. And we just want to make sure that the council is aware that we are taking other precautions and steps to assure the safety of the street, which are not limited to the stop signs, but will also include new signage and some other traffic calming tools, which our public works director at a future council meeting in the fall will come back share with you. In the meantime, you may hear bits and pieces from some of the folks that just aren't happy with the outcome, but I want to really take a moment to thank Jennifer Tejada and Captain Roebucker and Jonathan Goldman for their efforts meeting with the residents, both as individuals and in groups. And I think that the staff and staff are very we'll be bringing forward something that you will be able to weigh the pros and cons because there are also cons to when you put in Stop signs. and we may hear comments from other members of our community opposing that move. So that's just kind of a heads up. But you know, you had those folks come and ask for that. You've seen a lot of traffic from at least one or two members of the community demanding that the speed be reduced. I wanted to make sure that you knew that your staff was working hard to evaluate the options for your consideration at a future meeting. The last is a nice send off for our city librarian tonight. I think that that was an excellent move by the Park and Rec Commission to nominate her as our grand marshal. I think that you all saw by her emotion and excitement and surprise, you did not know that that was coming. Yeah. |
| 04:27:45.59 | Mike Kelly | Yeah. |
| 04:27:46.26 | Adam Politzer | And I think she's very much touched by that. We have conducted the recruitment and the recruitment closed last Friday. candidates for consideration. This morning I talked to the deputy director county library services that have also been conducting recruitment for their branch. manager positions which is similar to our small town librarians and they've had very thin and poor turnout. So I have not yet looked at the quality of the candidates. I'll be doing that tomorrow with Mary Richardson. to review them but there may be a possibility that we don't have our future librarian in this small pool and may have to recast the net. notice in the past we've been pretty uh, attentive to making sure that we hire the best people possible and we don't just hire because the position is open. But on the same note, our public works director came from a very small pool of candidates. I think we had six, but we had... Yeah. But we had, in my mind, four of those six were outstanding candidates. And obviously, the best of the six is sitting there in your front row, and we're very pleased to have them. |
| 04:29:05.03 | Mike Kelly | Yeah, it is. |
| 04:29:06.05 | Adam Politzer | So it's not the quantity of your pool, it's the quality of your pool and that's what we'll be assessing. tomorrow as we go forward. So that concludes my report. I'm happy to answer any questions that you may have of other items, but in the lateness of the hour, I'll stop there. |
| 04:29:21.67 | Herb Weiner | Madam, you want to just bring us up on Fourth of July? for all in it. |
| 04:29:27.11 | Adam Politzer | All that I know that I've heard from is from Councilmember Pfeiffer. And if others have any special requests, please get those in. But it is important that we're all working on the same page of if we're |
| 04:29:27.12 | Herb Weiner | Wait. |
| 04:29:43.68 | Adam Politzer | Um, all want to be in our own cars which is fine. I think that that's a nice thing to do. Then We need to find, well, the cars that we've been driving in the past have not helped there either. But this is a special occasion and a special event celebrating a lot more than our carbon footprint. But if a council member or members of the council would like to create a carbon footprint, friendly float. And maybe we can get the department heads to drag you around so you don't have to pull it yourself. |
| 04:30:21.14 | Jonathan Leone | I make a motion that Linda has to ride her horse in the parade. |
| 04:30:23.81 | Linda Pfeifer | And, |
| 04:30:25.83 | Jonathan Leone | to reduce the, well, there may be methane gas. |
| 04:30:27.96 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 04:30:28.04 | Adam Politzer | Yeah. |
| 04:30:28.19 | Linda Pfeifer | I can't ride my electric bike, actually. |
| 04:30:29.17 | Adam Politzer | Bye. |
| 04:30:29.21 | Jonathan Leone | Yeah. |
| 04:30:30.84 | Adam Politzer | But the critical need is obviously convertible cars. |
| 04:30:32.72 | Linda Pfeifer | convertible cars. |
| 04:30:34.56 | Adam Politzer | not just for the five members of the council, but for all the other folks that we tried to give the opportunity to ride in the parade. It's a great tradition and a lot of fun. So whatever help you folks have, I'm sure that Aaron and Mike Langford would appreciate it. |
| 04:30:55.84 | Adam Politzer | That sounds appropriate. I know we'll get you, as we get closer to that date, we'll get you more of those details. But yeah, I mean, a lot of the fun is just coming there early as everyone's setting up and mingling. We don't want you to come there last moment, jump in your car and take off. You know, come and have an opportunity to talk to your residents and celebrate the event. |
| 04:31:26.68 | Linda Pfeifer | Um, Mr. Mayor, if I may? |
| 04:31:30.06 | Linda Pfeifer | you Thank you. |
| 04:31:30.83 | Linda Pfeifer | Okay. So we've continued the housing element agenda to July 12th. And I just want to ensure that that agenda item include the list of options that city staff has put together for affordable housing sites that are being considered so that the council can weigh in on those specifically. |
| 04:32:26.56 | Jim Irving | I've seen him come in and that's any of them. Coach America, all of them. |
| 04:32:31.97 | Herb Weiner | express actually if you look at the shuttles believe it or not they're almost as long as the coaches and they only carry 28 passages but to my knowledge the coaches the most and the biggest that i've seen |
| 04:32:53.03 | Jim Irving | Plus large, there's a 52 test. So the same size as the AC transit? 3. Thank you. |
| 04:33:00.56 | Linda Pfeifer | Bye. |
| 04:33:01.83 | Jim Irving | I would... |
| 04:33:04.09 | Unknown | I love you. |
| 04:33:04.29 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah. |
| 04:33:04.32 | Unknown | I'm sorry. |
| 04:33:04.51 | Linda Pfeifer | Bye. |
| 04:33:04.53 | Unknown | I would. |
| 04:33:21.97 | Carolyn Ford | you Thank you. Thank you. |
| 04:33:24.15 | Linda Pfeifer | And Mr. Mayor, if I may weigh in. Yes, so just to concur with what Councilmember Ford says, because I live on South Street, I see the buses all the time. There seems to be an increase in the traffic for the tourism, well, I mean, but also, you know, in other times, I don't know why. But it might warrant taking a look with the increased bike traffic I know that there are sections of San Francisco that do not have the large tour buses going through because of safety issues. It might be something to take a look at. I'm not suggesting it's correct. I'm just saying that if people are asking the question. |
| 04:34:11.64 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 04:34:27.63 | Jim Irving | . |
| 04:34:28.02 | Herb Weiner | about 800 years ago, there was a big rift that went on with the buses, so they all decided the majority of them to take it to Tiburon. |
| 04:34:37.78 | Linda Pfeifer | Mr. Mayor? |
| 04:34:39.55 | Herb Weiner | So it's taken us years to get back. And they bring in revenue and they bring in visitors. So how do you look into it? |
| 04:34:39.62 | Linda Pfeifer | you Mm-hmm. |
| 04:34:49.05 | Linda Pfeifer | Me. Mm-hmm. |
| 04:34:51.16 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 04:34:53.28 | Linda Pfeifer | Mr. Mayor, if I may clarify, I was not suggesting that we not have buses coming into Sausalito. I was suggesting that perhaps we explore the condition on Alexander and the safety conditions because there is another way that buses can access Sausalito easily, and that is from the other end of town where there's not a narrow winding road, where a lot of tourist bikes are trying to share the roads with them. Just a consideration. |
| 04:35:26.04 | Charlie Francis | you |
| 04:35:26.17 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 04:35:26.19 | Charlie Francis | uh |
| 04:35:26.97 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 04:35:27.68 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:35:27.95 | Jonathan Leone | Yeah, I made this before, but I would suggest, I don't think the school district has picked a new superintendent yet, but I would, I think I brought this up at earlier meeting, I would like the board to come and make a presentation here, what's going on. And let's hear it directly from them, what their plans are, because it's a very important issue. |
| 04:35:56.92 | Barbara Brand | Okay. |
| 04:35:57.43 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 04:35:58.22 | Herb Weiner | All right, next item, Councillor McLean Kelly. |
| 04:36:03.77 | Mike Kelly | The Press. |
| 04:36:05.61 | Herb Weiner | Mm-hmm. |
| 04:36:06.27 | Mike Kelly | The President. The President. Herb has been nominated for Vice President-elect of MCCMC. So I would like to just have a concurrence that we would all vote for him. We vote as a — you get one vote as a citizen. |
| 04:36:14.44 | Charlie Francis | to |
| 04:36:21.86 | Herb Weiner | We have a choice here. The other person running is Greg... Greg Broadbank. Broadbank. |
| 04:36:27.82 | Mike Kelly | Okay, this is for boys. |
| 04:36:30.43 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 04:36:30.64 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 04:36:30.65 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 04:36:30.70 | Mike Kelly | Yeah. |
| 04:36:31.23 | Herb Weiner | Yeah. |
| 04:36:31.63 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 04:36:33.03 | Linda Pfeifer | you |
| 04:36:33.12 | Mary Richardson | Thank you. |
| 04:36:33.20 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 04:36:33.40 | Mary Richardson | Showing more. |
| 04:36:33.46 | Linda Pfeifer | show Marshall, so congratulations. |
| 04:36:34.74 | Mary Richardson | . |
| 04:36:35.23 | Herb Weiner | Not that next year goes to Novato Novato so usually what they do like to balance it is Big City small City North South and that's why My name was put in there |
| 04:36:35.94 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 04:36:35.97 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. . |
| 04:36:38.26 | Mary Richardson | you |
| 04:36:51.71 | Mike Kelly | Let's go. |
| 04:36:52.30 | Herb Weiner | Okay. |
| 04:36:53.25 | Mike Kelly | Can we give a concurrence? Well, let's take a vote. |
| 04:36:54.50 | Herb Weiner | Well, let's take a vote. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? |
| 04:36:57.86 | Mike Kelly | Bye. |
| 04:37:00.32 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 04:37:00.34 | Linda Pfeifer | No. Thank you. |
| 04:37:01.79 | Linda Pfeifer | scenario we talked about this. |
| 04:37:03.36 | Linda Pfeifer | you |
| 04:37:03.54 | Herb Weiner | Yeah, well, that's fine. You vote no, and it passes. It passes. Okay. 3-2. All right, what else? |
| 04:37:07.02 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 04:37:07.19 | Linda Pfeifer | It passes. |
| 04:37:08.15 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 04:37:08.39 | Linda Pfeifer | Okay. |
| 04:37:12.32 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. Yeah. |
| 04:37:13.21 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 04:37:13.23 | Jacques (Public Commenter) | Thank you. |
| 04:37:15.00 | Herb Weiner | We'll see. Um, I believe... |
| 04:37:19.03 | Mike Kelly | I move that we affirm Stan Bear as a |
| 04:37:21.83 | Jacques (Public Commenter) | Thank you. |
| 04:37:24.30 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 04:37:24.33 | Herb Weiner | Yeah. |
| 04:37:24.37 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. It is a task force. |
| 04:37:26.69 | Herb Weiner | It was brought up as affirmation of the Planning Commission, Stan Baer as the Chair of the Housing Element Task Force. |
| 04:37:27.24 | Mike Kelly | Sure. |
| 04:37:33.09 | Mike Kelly | pretty sure it was already done, but let's do the end. |
| 04:37:34.71 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. All in favor? |
| 04:37:36.72 | Linda Pfeifer | I would like to make a statement, Mr. Mayor. |
| 04:37:37.01 | Herb Weiner | I would like to make a statement. |
| 04:37:38.56 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:37:40.18 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 04:37:40.19 | Unknown | Go ahead. |
| 04:37:41.54 | Linda Pfeifer | So again, I oppose this for the same reasons I voted against it the first time when it was not on the agenda. I believe that the housing element... Uh, residents, the volunteers should be electing their own chair and that it should not be appointed by a mayor. Mr. Mayor? Unilateral. |
| 04:38:04.92 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 04:38:04.99 | Jonathan Leone | . |
| 04:38:05.03 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 04:38:05.12 | Jonathan Leone | Bye. |
| 04:38:05.15 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 04:38:05.26 | Jonathan Leone | Yeah. |
| 04:38:05.27 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 04:38:05.42 | Jonathan Leone | to the |
| 04:38:05.46 | Herb Weiner | Mr. Me. |
| 04:38:06.49 | Jonathan Leone | This was a |
| 04:38:06.74 | Herb Weiner | This was a |
| 04:38:07.28 | Jonathan Leone | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 04:38:07.33 | Herb Weiner | Yeah. |
| 04:38:07.40 | Jonathan Leone | force it was the very |
| 04:38:08.36 | Herb Weiner | THE END OF |
| 04:38:11.40 | Jonathan Leone | How you doing? All right. Doesn't the mayor have the power to just appoint the chair and not have it come to a vote in |
| 04:38:21.93 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 04:38:23.04 | Mary Wagner | Mmm. |
| 04:38:23.35 | Herb Weiner | On the task force. |
| 04:38:23.38 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 04:38:25.18 | Jonathan Leone | Or a keyboard or a commission. |
| 04:38:26.21 | Mary Wagner | this specific |
| 04:38:26.45 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 04:38:27.90 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. Task Force. The council delegated the authority to the mayor in the resolution you adopted whether you agree with the action or not. That is the action that the council took. Let's just leave it at that. To give that authority to the mayor. |
| 04:38:41.27 | Jonathan Leone | THE END OF THE END OF THE that. You don't have to vote on it. Why don't you just state you're appointing him as a |
| 04:38:44.37 | Linda Pfeifer | Who said? |
| 04:38:44.98 | Mike Kelly | you |
| 04:38:45.03 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 04:38:45.08 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 04:38:45.38 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 04:38:45.52 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 04:38:47.95 | Carolyn Ford | and I'm not. I would like to make a statement Mr. Mayor just a brief one and that okay. And that is that I have no objection to stand there being the committee head. But I think that for all our committees for all our task forces, the residents should elect it and that's in accordance with our ordinance. And I do not think that as a. so late as a general law city that the mayor has any more authority than any other council member on |
| 04:39:26.03 | Herb Weiner | Well, I believe you. Elected. So I followed the guidelines of a task force, and I exercised that. |
| 04:39:26.54 | Carolyn Ford | elected so. |
| 04:39:28.11 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 04:39:33.85 | Mike Kelly | Yeah. Thank you. Kate Sears was appointed by the council to be the head of the Public Safety Facilities Steering Committee. Period. There wasn't any vote. I was on that committee. There was no vote. She was appointed by the council. The council or the mayor? |
| 04:39:47.87 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 04:39:47.90 | Unknown | Council or the mayor? |
| 04:39:50.30 | Mike Kelly | I'm not sure. The council. Wow. |
| 04:39:50.84 | Unknown | The Council. The Council. |
| 04:39:53.24 | Carolyn Ford | Bye. |
| 04:39:53.24 | Herb Weiner | Bye. |
| 04:39:53.26 | Unknown | Bye. |
| 04:39:53.27 | Mike Kelly | Yeah. |
| 04:39:53.31 | Herb Weiner | that you know that either excuse me excuse me that's on the floor to cast force exercise what what what i thought was best and that's it and i'm asking for |
| 04:39:53.39 | Jim Irving | Bye. |
| 04:39:53.44 | Mike Kelly | Bye. |
| 04:39:53.58 | Jim Irving | I do know that either. |
| 04:40:03.65 | Carolyn Ford | Mr. |
| 04:40:04.22 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 04:40:06.23 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 04:40:06.25 | Carolyn Ford | We'll have to agree to disagree. Yeah, and Mr. Mayor, it was original. |
| 04:40:07.85 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah, and Mr. Mayor, it was originally |
| 04:40:09.79 | Carolyn Ford | Bye. |
| 04:40:09.81 | Linda Pfeifer | a committee. |
| 04:40:11.90 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 04:40:11.92 | Linda Pfeifer | You changed it to a now. |
| 04:40:11.95 | Herb Weiner | Let's not get into all of this. |
| 04:40:13.05 | Jonathan Leone | Oh, God. It doesn't matter. It's already, wait, hold on, hold on. It doesn't matter what you think. It's already an enacted Uh, piece of legislation that says he can appoint it, whether it got your vote or not. That's what was passed. I disagree. |
| 04:40:25.47 | Duane Milnes | Thank you. |
| 04:40:25.49 | Mike Kelly | No. Thank you. That's what- I disagree. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and over again. Let's get on with it. Let's get on with it. Sure. |
| 04:40:31.41 | Jonathan Leone | over and over and over again. |
| 04:40:32.56 | Carolyn Ford | Let's get on with it. Let's get on with it. Let's get on with the vote, please. I call for the vote. We don't have to vote? Okay, fine. I move we adjourn. |
| 04:40:35.26 | Jim Irving | What? |
| 04:40:35.75 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 04:40:35.78 | Mike Kelly | I'm not. |
| 04:40:35.80 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah. |
| 04:40:35.81 | Jim Irving | I'm not. |
| 04:40:35.98 | Linda Pfeifer | . |
| 04:40:36.15 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 04:40:38.85 | Jim Irving | you |
| 04:40:39.04 | Herb Weiner | Yeah, because the other one |
| 04:40:40.08 | Jim Irving | Bye. |
| 04:40:40.17 | Herb Weiner | Yeah. |
| 04:40:40.18 | Jim Irving | Wait, don't you? |
| 04:40:40.66 | Herb Weiner | THE END OF THE END OF THE Thank you. All right. Okay. Okay. |
| 04:40:46.75 | Linda Pfeifer | Indeed. |
| 04:40:48.84 | Herb Weiner | Good night, Monsters Calabash, wherever you are. You don't remember that one. |