| Time | Speaker | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00.03 | Herb Weiner | 12 2011 me meeting At this time here, we will go into closed session and talk about items Zacks versus Sausalito and the MLK properties. This time here, is there any public comment on the closed session items? |
| 00:00:19.77 | Linda Pfeifer | Oh, God. |
| 00:00:20.30 | Debbie | Thank you. |
| 00:00:20.94 | Herb Weiner | Oh... Thank you. Sorry. vocal. |
| 00:00:27.77 | Debbie | Council member Pfeiffer? you Councilmember Ford here and Mayor Weiner. |
| 00:00:34.05 | Herb Weiner | President. |
| 00:00:34.95 | Debbie | Thank you. |
| 00:00:34.98 | Herb Weiner | Okay. I don't have to repeat everything to it yet. All right, we're gonna go back in closed session. |
| 00:01:02.06 | Herb Weiner | Good evening and welcome to the Tuesday, July 12, 2011 meeting. Um, This time here, roll call. |
| 00:01:14.06 | Herb Weiner | I'll answer for him. |
| 00:01:15.75 | Debbie | Councilmember Leon? Here. Councilmember Ford? Here. And Mayor Weiner? |
| 00:01:20.68 | Herb Weiner | President. at this time here, Pledge of Allegiance. And since Chuck... Wait a minute, I'm sorry. Wait a minute. Thank you. |
| 00:01:29.40 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 00:01:29.70 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 00:01:29.74 | Linda Pfeifer | What do you mean? you |
| 00:01:31.04 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 00:01:33.16 | Herb Weiner | We did that already. We already did. Oh, you did that already? Yeah, I'm sorry. Oh, I should probably. |
| 00:01:34.53 | Heidi Scoble | I did that. |
| 00:01:38.82 | Herb Weiner | All right, yeah, that's okay. Chuck, since you're standing, we'll let you lead us in the pledge. |
| 00:01:38.97 | Heidi Scoble | All right. |
| 00:01:39.98 | Jonathon Goldman | Okay. |
| 00:01:45.99 | Herb Weiner | I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. |
| 00:01:47.17 | Heidi Scoble | Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. And through the research. |
| 00:01:54.95 | Jonathon Goldman | One nation. |
| 00:02:02.56 | Herb Weiner | Okay. That's okay. We had a meeting of closed session and we discussed the items of SACS versus Sausalito, City of Sausalito and the MLK properties. um, This time here, I don't think there's any announcement. Any public comment on the closed session? |
| 00:02:27.92 | Linda Pfeifer | I can't listen to the time before. |
| 00:02:29.44 | Chuck Donald | Thank you. |
| 00:02:29.51 | Linda Pfeifer | Yes. Thank you. |
| 00:02:30.74 | Chuck Donald | Yeah, I do, if you would. |
| 00:02:35.16 | Herb Weiner | Sure, I will check. |
| 00:02:39.50 | Chuck Donald | Thank you. |
| 00:02:39.55 | Linda Pfeifer | Hold on. |
| 00:02:39.74 | Chuck Donald | Thank you. |
| 00:02:49.13 | Chuck Donald | One, two, three? Yeah. The item on the |
| 00:02:51.03 | Michael Rex | Bye. |
| 00:02:55.29 | Chuck Donald | The main item, as far as I'm concerned, was the Litigation with Gossage, Gossage and City. and, A while back, about two months ago, The courts got the two parties to agree to mediation And my question was, did that mediation result in anything? and If you can answer this, And if it Well, they're a two-part question. And the second part of it is, that after that point. About three weeks ago, there was a tax lien put on against Gossage for any profits he might have made. from settling that suit. And so the second question really hinges on the first one, if there was a mediated agreement Does the tax lien into effect. I don't know if you can answer those, but those are my questions. |
| 00:03:51.86 | Linda Pfeifer | Well, maybe it's going to come up. |
| 00:03:53.68 | Chuck Donald | I'm not going to, but Aunt Mary will. |
| 00:03:55.54 | Herb Weiner | . |
| 00:03:55.62 | Chuck Donald | Thank you. |
| 00:03:56.52 | Mary Wagner | Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Actually, the mediation is scheduled to occur on July 27th, so it hasn't happened yet. So there's two upcoming events in the Gossage litigation or the Zacks, Inc. versus City of Saucelita litigation. One is the hearing on the city's summary judgment motion is set for Tuesday, July 26th, and the court-ordered mediation is set for Wednesday, July 27th. |
| 00:04:22.57 | Chuck Donald | Okay. |
| 00:04:23.77 | Mary Wagner | And the city is well aware of the tax lien, and it would be taken into consideration. |
| 00:04:23.82 | Chuck Donald | and- |
| 00:04:28.12 | Chuck Donald | into consideration? If necessary. Absolutely. Thank you. |
| 00:04:30.44 | Mary Wagner | Yeah. |
| 00:04:30.61 | Herb Weiner | Absolutely. |
| 00:04:30.89 | Mary Wagner | you |
| 00:04:30.93 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Chuck. Okay, any other comments from the public? Have approval of the agenda? |
| 00:04:42.16 | Carolyn Ford | I move that we approve the attendance. |
| 00:04:44.63 | Herb Weiner | have a second. |
| 00:04:45.50 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 00:04:46.43 | Herb Weiner | All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Do so. Move. |
| 00:04:47.43 | Carolyn Ford | Bye. |
| 00:04:53.10 | Herb Weiner | Okay, at this time here, a special presentation, and that would be from Jonathan Goldman of the new Public Works Maintenance Division. |
| 00:05:03.04 | Jonathon Goldman | manager. Thank you Mr. Mayor, members of council, staff and members of the community that are assembled here. It's actually a perfect evening in my mind for this. The all-star game, Team Sausalito, and I have the honor of introducing our new Public Works Maintenance Division manager. A gentleman familiar, I think, probably to all of us. Lauren Umbertis, who has, as you probably know, more than ten years of experience in construction management, including three of those in delivery of the city of Sausalito's public safety facilities project. He also has a lot of other public sector project construction management experience. Lauren has a Bachelor's of Science in Political Science and Economics from University of California at Irvine. He's a LEED accredited professional. He has a construction project management certificate pending. Lives in San Francisco and has formerly family in Fort Bragg. And I'd like to introduce him and give him a chance to say a few words and say hello and also let him know how delighted I am that he's here. Thank you. |
| 00:06:20.97 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 00:06:21.71 | Herb Weiner | Well, we certainly won't have any problems answering questions about the safety buildings, will we? |
| 00:06:25.69 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. |
| 00:06:26.54 | Jonathan Leone | . Everything better be tied up with a bone there. You're going to be responsible for it from here on out. |
| 00:06:30.82 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. No! |
| 00:06:33.17 | Mike Kelly | I suspect that part of this offer was to get me to fix some of the things that might not be working and my tenure might depend solely upon how long it takes to get all those fixed. But it is great to be back here behind the podium and to see all of you again, and to, again, be a part of Team Sausalito. It is a great opportunity, and I want to thank |
| 00:06:45.15 | Jonathon Goldman | But if... |
| 00:06:56.98 | Mike Kelly | Jonathan and Adam for calling me a few months ago. A difficult decision, but It was the right one, and I'm I'm glad to be back and I hope that I could do a lot of great things for the city. I do want to say I don't. expect that every time I come up, I'll get the same type of reaction I did the last time I came up. |
| 00:07:19.66 | Linda Pfeifer | So good. |
| 00:07:20.96 | Mike Kelly | So don't feel that you're having to do that. But it is great to be back, and I hope it's a great and long relationship. |
| 00:07:22.04 | Linda Pfeifer | Bye. Yeah. |
| 00:07:22.93 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:07:24.50 | Linda Pfeifer | It is. |
| 00:07:24.87 | Heidi Scoble | Yeah. |
| 00:07:24.99 | Jonathon Goldman | I do. |
| 00:07:30.24 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 00:07:30.34 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 00:07:30.36 | Mike Kelly | Welcome aboard. |
| 00:07:30.96 | Herb Weiner | and what a pleasant surprise. Congratulations. |
| 00:07:33.09 | Carolyn Ford | Yes, indeed. Congratulations. |
| 00:07:35.45 | Herb Weiner | Thank you very much. |
| 00:07:36.18 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 00:07:37.02 | Jonathan Leone | You come up and shake your hands even though I'm not. |
| 00:07:39.30 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah. |
| 00:07:39.35 | Carolyn Ford | Bye. |
| 00:07:39.42 | Linda Pfeifer | I'm sorry. Thank you. |
| 00:07:40.38 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 00:07:40.43 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:07:41.97 | Mike Kelly | you |
| 00:07:42.04 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 00:07:43.06 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:07:43.47 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 00:07:43.52 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 00:07:43.54 | Linda Pfeifer | you |
| 00:07:43.72 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 00:07:43.93 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. It's very good. |
| 00:07:44.26 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:07:44.79 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. I have no idea. Welcome to the board. Thank you. |
| 00:07:47.44 | Heidi Scoble | Today's the end. All right. |
| 00:07:53.31 | Herb Weiner | Don't be nervous now. |
| 00:07:54.86 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah, no problem. Yeah. Yes. |
| 00:07:59.16 | Heidi Scoble | Oh, my God. |
| 00:07:59.30 | Herb Weiner | Yeah. Oh, my God. Bye. Bye. |
| 00:08:02.69 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 00:08:02.71 | Herb Weiner | You're welcome. Welcome aboard. |
| 00:08:02.81 | Linda Pfeifer | You're welcome. |
| 00:08:05.42 | Herb Weiner | Okay. On that high note... |
| 00:08:13.30 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 00:08:13.36 | Jonathan Leone | You can't say you didn't know what you got yourself into, |
| 00:08:16.21 | Linda Pfeifer | I'm kidding. You're dropping. |
| 00:08:17.52 | Jonathan Leone | Yeah. Thank you. |
| 00:08:21.15 | Herb Weiner | Okay, now we're going to move on, let's see, are there any Citizens would like to make any comments that is not on the agenda at this time. |
| 00:08:33.61 | Linda Pfeifer | Mm-hmm. |
| 00:08:34.84 | Herb Weiner | Can you come up and state your name, please? |
| 00:08:39.44 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 00:08:39.49 | Tiffany O'Connor | Thank you. |
| 00:08:39.78 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 00:08:44.17 | Tiffany O'Connor | My name is Tiffany O'Connor and I'm. Should I just tell you what it is? Yeah. Oh, okay. I don't know. |
| 00:08:50.36 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah. Oh, okay. I don't know. Thank you. No, it's like you're pretty much saying. |
| 00:08:53.55 | Tiffany O'Connor | Okay, cool. Get ready to sing. Okay, so last week I went, I kind of stumbled across the Planning Commission meeting. I've never been to one in my life here. Anyway, so I went and I was just kind of surprised that they were talking about this bathroom, tearing out a protected tree and all my, like, I kind of go, you know, I lost my breath for a second there going. |
| 00:08:55.75 | Linda Pfeifer | Bye. |
| 00:09:19.34 | Tiffany O'Connor | you know, and I just, said to myself, well, maybe I could just sit in and maybe put my two cents in, if that would help some protected treat. It's not supposed to be hauled out. |
| 00:09:29.02 | Carolyn Ford | system. |
| 00:09:30.98 | Tiffany O'Connor | to build a bathroom. Maybe we could build a bathroom around the tree and make the tree the center of the avatar. Yeah. But just, you know, further review on the design plan for that bathroom in Sausalito is what I would hope in a more So it wouldn't totally annihilate the landscape and tear out that tree. I mean, it's just another root situation is an important situation to deal with and just rebuilding that and raising it up. If it's only a six to eight year plan, hey, you know, figure the growth pattern of the tree and say, okay, well, this eugenia-protected tree grows, you know, four inches every year or whatever, and then you just build to the next time you're going to review to build another bathroom. So anyways, it was just a thought. I had spent the weekend somewhere else at some plumber's place to see if I could get some free designs.. Didn't work. Anyway, it was a nice try. Good to you. But so I was just trying to hopefully encourage the council to take a second look at that plan and... I think that maybe in redesigning it to circle around the tree, maybe throw in a couple of showers. for wayward wandering sea sailing folk and or what not, you know, and I'm just thinking it'd be a beautiful thing if we could make it something really pretty that would exemplify the artists of Sausalito and kind of invite the artists to kind of put their two cents in. I don't know, it just seemed like it kind of went beyond, kind of cut a few corners in that, and it just feels like it's too, too many corners cut for my comfort zone. And I don't know, I'd like to see something really pretty that resembles some kind of a Roman bathhouse that's elevated. Oh, you know, also kind of a cross between that and Swiss Family, Robinson Treehouse at Disneyland, you know, I don't know. |
| 00:11:40.34 | Herb Weiner | They are roaming all over the place, Tommy. I will tell you that. |
| 00:11:43.25 | Tiffany O'Connor | Yeah, you know, or just something that's really beautiful that could say, hey, wow, this is Sausalito. |
| 00:11:48.49 | Herb Weiner | That's your time. |
| 00:11:49.47 | Tiffany O'Connor | All right. |
| 00:11:49.93 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you so much. |
| 00:11:49.96 | Herb Weiner | Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, any other? |
| 00:11:51.45 | Linda Pfeifer | you |
| 00:11:57.13 | Herb Weiner | comments all right then let's move on to uh approval of the minutes of the special joint meeting with the Southern Amendment Fire Protection District Board and the City Council on June 21st, 2011. |
| 00:12:11.83 | Jonathan Leone | I just have a comment on page five. I think the vote is on the smart thing is |
| 00:12:24.50 | Jonathan Leone | doing both. He just said both. Yeah. |
| 00:12:33.65 | Jonathan Leone | that Okay, got you. No, I read it the wrong way the first time, so it's correct. |
| 00:12:39.89 | Herb Weiner | Okay, do I have a second? |
| 00:12:42.48 | Linda Pfeifer | I have one comment. which is on page 3B6. It says, Council Member Pfeiffer requested that the next agenda regarding the housing element also include, I believe I said the affordable housing sites that city staff had identified in the option list. include the affordable housing sites that city staff had identified in the option list. What I was trying to do was get some transparency, you know, in front of the council with respect to what city staff was proposing. |
| 00:13:25.79 | Herb Weiner | Okay. All right. Do I have a second? |
| 00:13:30.98 | Carolyn Ford | Hmm. I move that we approve the minutes as amended. |
| 00:13:37.20 | Linda Pfeifer | Second. |
| 00:13:38.75 | Herb Weiner | All in favor? Aye. Opposed? |
| 00:13:40.00 | Carolyn Ford | Bye. Thank you. |
| 00:13:41.54 | Herb Weiner | Now we'll move to the approval of the minutes of the regular City Council meeting. All right. |
| 00:13:46.62 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 00:13:46.74 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 00:13:46.75 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 00:13:46.77 | Jonathon Goldman | Oh, yeah. |
| 00:13:47.55 | Herb Weiner | Oh, did we? We just did that. I did both. I'm sorry. Okay. Then let's move on to the consent calendar. |
| 00:13:48.21 | Heidi Scoble | We just did that. |
| 00:13:49.28 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. |
| 00:13:54.14 | Herb Weiner | time here approval of the consent calendar |
| 00:14:01.57 | Carolyn Ford | I move that we approve the consent calendar. |
| 00:14:03.97 | Herb Weiner | Okay, have a second. |
| 00:14:07.83 | Heidi Scoble | . |
| 00:14:08.69 | Herb Weiner | Okay, all in favor? |
| 00:14:09.47 | Linda Pfeifer | I |
| 00:14:11.12 | Herb Weiner | Oh, I'm sorry. |
| 00:14:11.17 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 00:14:13.00 | Herb Weiner | Okay, sorry about that. Public comment, Vicki? |
| 00:14:13.75 | Linda Pfeifer | Sorry about that. |
| 00:14:18.55 | Vicki Nichols | I'd like to either pull or just have clarified the, the, which records are in item D. You've done this periodically as you've come up. chronologically or as you, you know, go through this process and usually can explain what records are being |
| 00:14:39.88 | Herb Weiner | Destroyed. I'm Debbie. |
| 00:14:40.32 | Vicki Nichols | Destroyed. Thank you. |
| 00:14:43.07 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah. |
| 00:14:44.55 | Herb Weiner | There is an attachment that we have on that list. |
| 00:14:46.49 | Jonathan Leone | It's a weird assessment. They don't have a page. |
| 00:14:47.77 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 00:14:47.81 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 00:14:47.86 | Herb Weiner | They don't. |
| 00:14:48.43 | Linda Pfeifer | Item 4D, page 3. |
| 00:14:49.11 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 00:14:49.26 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 00:14:49.28 | Herb Weiner | Pidgey. Okay. |
| 00:14:52.03 | Linda Pfeifer | Actually, I did have a quick question on that list of items. OK. Do the work comp monthly reports include, does that include the data from the fire department comps or anything like that? |
| 00:14:56.30 | Heidi Scoble | Okay. |
| 00:15:10.15 | Debbie | Those are simply Those are not the actual accident reports. Yes, they would include fire, police, public works, admin, every single department, but those are a duplicate of what is actually on file. |
| 00:15:28.07 | Linda Pfeifer | So we have duplicates then. In other words, if we were doing some research, we would have access to those files. Yes. And the same with the other items with respect to the fire. I'm specifically interested in the... that area. for like, Well, I would assume the tax payable. |
| 00:15:48.68 | Debbie | Well, there would be no... There's no duplic... I mean... |
| 00:15:52.36 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:15:52.76 | Debbie | Because it says... |
| 00:15:53.25 | Linda Pfeifer | It says, |
| 00:15:53.69 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. Good boy. |
| 00:15:56.56 | Debbie | Okay, the checks, the accounts payable checks are in fact copies thereof. Um... Bank statements are not a copy. Um... |
| 00:16:14.97 | Debbie | Yeah, not everything is a copy. |
| 00:16:19.07 | Linda Pfeifer | Okay, but the work comp is? Thank you. |
| 00:16:21.21 | Debbie | Absolutely. |
| 00:16:23.84 | Linda Pfeifer | Okay. |
| 00:16:24.13 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. Okay. Okay. Just from the public's knowledge, the city a few years ago adopted a resolution to let the city destroy documents per state law that were over certain age and, um, the ones that are in this go-around Generally, we're copying most of these things. We're not copying, scanning them into, I don't know about these in particular. I don't think these are being scanned because they're more business receipts and items versus resolutions and things like that. But accounts payable, check copies, accounts payable documentation, bank statements, business license applications, business permit receipts for parking and prox card reports for parking, risk management monthly claims, loss runs, and workers' comp monthly reports. And the dates range anywhere up to 2004 to up to 2008. |
| 00:16:50.61 | Linda Pfeifer | They're not. |
| 00:16:50.98 | Jonathon Goldman | That's good. |
| 00:17:25.34 | Herb Weiner | Okay. So just something... I'm sorry. Thank you. Yes, you do. Okay. So, all in favor? Aye. Opposed? Okay. Thank you. Let's go to our business item. |
| 00:17:38.55 | Carolyn Ford | Bye. |
| 00:17:44.61 | Herb Weiner | you And that would be the second community workshop for housing element update, Lillie Shintzing. Please. |
| 00:18:02.07 | Lily | Thank you. Good evening, Mr. Mayor, council members. |
| 00:18:19.69 | Lily | This item is regarding the second community workshop on the housing element update. which will be held this Saturday at 9.30 a.m. at the Bay Model. The purpose of the workshop will be to introduce the state requirements for the site's inventory portion of the housing element update. and present a menu of options for the community's consideration and feedback. Staff has contracted with Mintir Harnish to provide facilitation services at the workshop. The options for consideration are a variety of strategies to meet the regional housing needs allocation or RENA of 372 housing units. The strategies range from an amnesty program and new regulations for accessory dwelling units and live aboards to rezoning different sites in the city for increased densities for affordable housing. The Housing Element Task Force has requested that during the facilitator's presentation of the menu of options, the facilitator describe in their experience the likelihood of the state to accept each of the strategies. After receiving feedback from the community at the workshop this Saturday, the task force will select a strategy or a combination of strategies to proceed with creating a draft housing element to eventually forward to the council for consideration. Up on the slide right now is the draft agenda that has been reviewed by the task force and revised after their meeting on June 27th per their direction. And this is included in your packet this evening. Staff has advertised for this event by emailing invitations to all city boards, committee, task force, and Commission members in addition all individuals who are on the housing element task force email distribution list also received an email invitation In addition, representatives from the Greenbelt Alliance, Nonprofit Housing, EAH, Marin Conservation League, Marin Community Foundation, the Marin Association of Realtors, and the City Council also received an invitation to attend the workshop. In addition, a letter invitation was sent to community groups and harbor masters of marinas in Sausalito. An email was also sent to representatives from the MarinScope and the Marin IJ. And flyers announcing the workshop were inserted into the July 6th MarinScope and will be in tomorrow's edition of the MarinScope as well. And lastly, a flyer announcing the event has been posted at City Hall and on the city's website. Items distributed this evening to the Council and to the public at the front include a revised page from the menu of options. This is page 18. I realized today that the Excel spreadsheet that I was using to create this summary table had some of the cells linked wrong in the formulas, and so some of the numbers were off. So this table is the most revised and most accurate table. We've also distributed some charts that go over the different strategies and what the RHNA numbers are after you subtract all the different strategies. |
| 00:21:56.05 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:22:00.65 | Lily | Thanks. So this report is for informational purposes only, and we're available for any questions that you may have. |
| 00:22:11.65 | Lily | Uh-huh. |
| 00:22:12.03 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 00:22:13.34 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 00:22:13.46 | Linda Pfeifer | Number four. |
| 00:22:16.95 | Carolyn Ford | Okay, I have a couple of questions. Lily, thank you for the summary of the various strategies. And I'm wondering, could you walk through those with us? just seen it tonight, but one of the One of the things that I'm questioning here and questioning the need for is Avery, to have this modified one bit, one little bit here, I think, and that is to I had what we have before we start rezoning to have a subtotal there and then the remaining that we would have to meet the RHNA requirements. But I think it would be worth it to walk through this at some point. for for all of us. |
| 00:23:16.83 | Linda Pfeifer | Okay. |
| 00:23:17.16 | Carolyn Ford | Because one question I have is I thought we would have fewer if we took the heavy... Um, I thought we would end up with fewer, the need for fewer units. in terms of what was left over. And I don't see that here, so I'm... I'm looking for some help here. |
| 00:23:41.97 | Lily | is a little confusing. The negative numbers mean that there's a deficit, so we need those units to satisfy the arena. I see. If they're positive numbers, we have a surplus. |
| 00:23:52.72 | Carolyn Ford | I see. Okay. then my request would be that for the workshop, because we have a variety of options here and there is a lot of interest in what the city can do with just the additional second units and the liveaboards, I would like to see a chart that shows just that before we get to rezoning so that residents have a clear idea of what the numbers are before we go to rezoning. And then I do have some additional questions that I actually submitted to staff today, and I think that for the public's interests, I would like to have those answered on record for anyone who may be watching tonight. And the first one is regarding the ADUs, the additional units, and the other units. The assumptions state percentages for three separate strategies, respectively, of one-eighth, one-fourth, and one-third. property owners. would take advantage of the opportunities and what is the basis for these percentages? |
| 00:25:16.76 | Lily | And we used those numbers as a starting point. The lower percentages were associated with the lighter strategy, and they increased as you went to a heavier strategy. So these are figures that staff came up with? As a starting point. |
| 00:25:36.06 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:25:36.52 | Adam Politzer | Councilmember Ford, if I could just add, because the response came this evening, we printed what was sent to the council, and it's in the stack of paper that was on the dais. So those seven questions, I believe. |
| 00:25:36.53 | Lily | That's not. |
| 00:25:36.97 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 00:25:53.81 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 00:25:53.83 | Adam Politzer | Oh, my God. |
| 00:25:54.12 | Carolyn Ford | Bye. |
| 00:25:54.20 | Adam Politzer | Thank you. and the answers so you can see the response from staff, but because of the When we received a question and had time to respond to the questions, we wanted to make sure that that was on the dais for your review tonight. you |
| 00:26:11.43 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 00:26:11.48 | Adam Politzer | Thank you. |
| 00:26:12.75 | Heidi Scoble | Right. |
| 00:26:12.97 | Adam Politzer | THE END OF |
| 00:26:13.20 | Carolyn Ford | All right, I guess that these questions can be answered then Saturday. I would request that they be answered Saturday during the workshop. Okay, so you'll hand this out Saturday at the workshop. That's my question. I want the public to be aware. of these particular questions. |
| 00:26:35.48 | Linda Pfeifer | Mr. Mayor, if I may respond to Councilmember Ford's question. |
| 00:26:37.79 | Herb Weiner | Bye. |
| 00:26:41.43 | Herb Weiner | Go ahead. |
| 00:26:42.36 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. So, Councilmember Ford's question specifically regarded staff's assumption that of the second units, also known as ADUs. there were assumptions city staff has made that only a 1 8th of property owners might take advantage of the opportunity, 1 4th and 1 3rd. Council member Ford's question was, where did the 1 8th, the 1 4th and the 1 3rd assumption come from? And I know that I had asked this question earlier of city staff and that the answer that I received was that it was based on a hunch or experience of the community development director. Is that correct? |
| 00:27:32.21 | Lily | We use those numbers as a reasonable starting point. |
| 00:27:35.60 | Linda Pfeifer | But I mean a starting point, but from where? Where did you get 1 8th, 1, I mean what is the, what is the, |
| 00:27:43.08 | Jonathan Leone | Is your question that you think the proportion should be higher? |
| 00:27:43.86 | Linda Pfeifer | is. Point of order, Mr. Mayor. Yeah. My question is simply- Just ask the- |
| 00:27:47.75 | Carolyn Ford | THE END OF |
| 00:27:47.79 | Jonathan Leone | you're listening to |
| 00:27:47.94 | Carolyn Ford | Order, Mr. |
| 00:27:49.04 | Herb Weiner | Yeah. My question is simply... Okay. Just let's specifically ask you a question. See if they can answer. |
| 00:27:54.88 | Linda Pfeifer | My specific question is we have specific percent, one-eighth, one-fourth, and one-third of property owners would take advantage of the second unit opportunities. Where did those fractions come from? To say it's a starting point does not answer my question. I'd like to know. where they came from. Was it a recommendation from Sacramento, did it come from ABAC? Where did that assumption come from? |
| 00:28:21.82 | Lily | We didn't use any other documentation, or we didn't consult with the state on that. Okay. It came from staff. |
| 00:28:26.18 | Linda Pfeifer | Okay. So, My recollection when I asked this question was that it was based on the experience of the community development director. |
| 00:28:39.96 | Herb Weiner | Um... |
| 00:28:42.55 | Linda Pfeifer | Correct me if I'm wrong, Jeremy. I'm fine, but this is what I recall you said. |
| 00:28:48.64 | Jeremy Graves | I don't recall that question at any of the task force meetings. And as Lily has indicated, staff was looking at the types of assumptions that should be used in the light, medium, and heavy scenarios. And we decided, well, we have to come up with something as a starting point for the discussions by the task force, and let's be quite transparent in staff's assumptions here. And so that's why we identified in the menu of options, which you have in front of you, and has been discussed by the Housing Element Committee and the Housing Task Force since April of what the starting points are. And if the Task Force believes that these are overly aggressive or not aggressive enough, they can be modified. There's really no magic in these. It's a point for the starting of discussion as Lely indicated. |
| 00:29:45.89 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 00:29:45.91 | Herb Weiner | I agree. |
| 00:29:46.28 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 00:29:52.71 | Jeremy Graves | Thank you. |
| 00:29:52.76 | Herb Weiner | Okay. |
| 00:29:52.80 | Jeremy Graves | Thank you. |
| 00:29:52.85 | Carolyn Ford | Yeah. |
| 00:29:52.91 | Jeremy Graves | Thank you. |
| 00:29:53.02 | Carolyn Ford | Mr. Mayer? |
| 00:29:53.08 | Jeremy Graves | Thank you. |
| 00:29:53.10 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 00:29:53.93 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 00:29:53.98 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. Councilmember Ford. |
| 00:29:55.41 | Carolyn Ford | What I think is important in the workshop is to emphasize that these are a starting point. These assumptions that have been made are a starting point because... |
| 00:30:09.08 | Linda Pfeifer | Next question. |
| 00:30:09.65 | Carolyn Ford | The HEC committee will not be Um, the HEC committee will not be meeting between now and the workshop correct. |
| 00:30:20.44 | Jeremy Graves | That is correct. |
| 00:30:21.25 | Carolyn Ford | Okay, so it's very necessary, I think, that staff explain where these came from. And then there's also another, there are assumptions made throughout the report that I question the basis for. and I have asked those questions here. The consultant is quoted as, I believe it was a consultant that Looking at your feedback here. Oh. |
| 00:31:04.80 | Herb Weiner | I just want questions at this time. |
| 00:31:05.09 | Carolyn Ford | consultancy value yes there is a risk that this strategy will not be accepted by the HCD Okay, we talked about that. All right, I'm sorry. And the risks, but one question I do want out there and I want to make sure the public understands this, is this one. What does the risk entail? And is there a financial implication? And what's to prevent the city from resubmitting the report with changes? So, These are the kinds of answers that we should be giving the people at the workshop, and I'd like to go on record tonight. I'd like for you to answer that question for the public who may be tuning in tonight. Just for the record? |
| 00:31:57.65 | Lily | Sure. So in order for the state to certify |
| 00:32:01.18 | Herb Weiner | Do you understand the question? |
| 00:32:03.46 | Lily | I believe I do. |
| 00:32:04.37 | Herb Weiner | Okay. |
| 00:32:05.10 | Lily | In order for the state to certify the housing element, they need to accept the city's strategies as coming up with a valid arena in terms of state law and their interpretation of state law. So the risk would be that they don't accept the city's strategies as put forth. There's no financial detriment to the city beyond staff time to go back and work with the community and the council to come up with other strategies for a revised housing element and possibly work with the consultant again. |
| 00:32:25.84 | Linda Pfeifer | Mm-hmm. |
| 00:32:37.16 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 00:32:37.26 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 00:32:41.99 | Carolyn Ford | Okay, thank you. |
| 00:32:43.32 | Herb Weiner | Okay. |
| 00:32:45.21 | Linda Pfeifer | Mr. Mayor. |
| 00:32:45.51 | Herb Weiner | Council Member Pfeiffer. |
| 00:32:47.20 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. So I have a question with respect to when I was on the housing element. |
| 00:32:56.21 | Herb Weiner | question. Go ahead. |
| 00:32:59.37 | Linda Pfeifer | I'm sorry, Mr. Mary? |
| 00:33:00.24 | Herb Weiner | You have a question or an answer? |
| 00:33:01.68 | Linda Pfeifer | Yes, my question, if I may. When I was on the Housing Element Committee, I raised the question regarding the flyer with respect to making it clear that we were also going to include the phrase affordable housing in the flyer. |
| 00:33:03.08 | Herb Weiner | Okay, go ahead. |
| 00:33:25.15 | Linda Pfeifer | and In the flyers that I've seen, in all the announcements that I've seen, the only reference to affordable housing is in the context of the housing overlay zone. And I was just wondering if there was a reason why because a lot of residents see the phrase housing element and they don't know what that means. And so I was just wondering why we were not more forthcoming with respect to stating that in this flyer and in the emails and in the other communication and community outreach. the fly |
| 00:34:07.96 | Lily | was reviewed by the task force at the June meeting, and the task force appointed a committee member to work with staff to come up with some revised language for the flyer. And so this is what the committee member and staff worked on. |
| 00:34:27.93 | Linda Pfeifer | So my next question is when I was on the Housing Element Committee, I also raised concerns regarding the survey question that went out to during the ADU, the second unit survey with respect to the parking question. And I raise this because the parking question on that survey was later used by city staff to whittle down the potential second unit count. And my concern was that the survey question was phrased, if an accessory unit were built, could you accommodate off-street parking for that unit on your property? And I have grave concerns about the validity of that survey question because we use the verb built, and a lot of people would be creating second units as part of the existing structure. So I guess my first question is, was this discussed further after I raised my concern about the verbiage that was used in this survey by the Housing Element Task Force? |
| 00:35:44.27 | Lily | I don't think it was ever brought up again since that time. I think it was the May meeting. Perhaps that it was brought up. It wasn't brought up at the June meeting. |
| 00:35:49.52 | Linda Pfeifer | Perhaps that was great. Okay, and then the other question that I raised when I was on the housing element was the second part of this question of the survey, which was they asked number of spaces, which was plural, which could have been interpreted by the reader to mean more than one space. Was this issue brought up again by the housing element task force? Not after the May meeting. Okay. So... Was this issue brought up again by the Housing Element Task Force? Not after the May meeting. Okay. So I won't go into the details of the other issues that I raised when I was on the Housing Element. It sounds like they didn't revisit this again. So the crux of my questioning was that I disagreed with the final question. the way that that second unit number had been whittled down. Did the Housing Element Task Force ever challenge or question the fact that those numbers of the second units had been whittled down? |
| 00:36:52.22 | Lily | At the June meeting, the focus of the task force was to talk about the sites for potentially rezoning and the options being considered slash options not being considered. That was the focus. |
| 00:37:06.76 | Linda Pfeifer | Okay, and my last question is when I met with you and Jeremy last week, thank you very much for your time. Thank you for going through all of my questions that I had. One of the things I asked specifically about was the MLK program. property the Marinship and the Valhalla all being placed on the options list. And my question is, is my understanding that the MLK property and Marinship and the Nevada Street property had all been placed on an options not to consider list. Is that correct? |
| 00:38:08.30 | Lily | options not being considered. |
| 00:38:09.90 | Linda Pfeifer | Options not being considered. Was Valhalla also placed on that list? |
| 00:38:16.63 | Lily | No, that site is still on the... sites for looking at potential for rezoning. |
| 00:38:24.38 | Linda Pfeifer | So if we have placed MLK and the Marinship and the Nevada Street property on the items not being considered, does that mean that those residents can rest assured that those areas are not being considered for the housing element for affordable housing? |
| 00:38:54.96 | Lily | The menu of options is a working document right now for the task force. They haven't approved this document yet. It's still in its draft form. So they could change it if they wanted to in the future. |
| 00:39:12.47 | Linda Pfeifer | So in other words, when the housing element task force determined that items 1 through 5 and 9 were not being considered. That, and just for the record, these are 630 Nevada School Site, MLK Neighborhood Commercial CN2, I'm not quite sure where that is, rezoning on edge R2 parcels, not sure where that is, and the Marinship, know where that is, and then number one, rezoning other open space, I'm not sure. Those are kind of currently not being considered. although you're telling me that they'll still be presented at the workshop. |
| 00:40:10.95 | Lily | No, these options are not being presented at the workshop. |
| 00:40:13.22 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. they're not being presented at the workshop. So they're not part of the housing element consideration then. |
| 00:40:15.01 | Lily | so that |
| 00:40:18.66 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 00:40:18.67 | Lily | The strategies presented, going to be presented at the workshop are the two different ADU strategies, the existing in the future, the two different live aboard strategies, the existing in the future, and the two different rezoning strategies. So essentially, A through H. Yeah. |
| 00:40:35.89 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah. |
| 00:40:36.21 | Lily | of that on page 10 of the menu of options. |
| 00:40:38.81 | Linda Pfeifer | and you have options. And then six, seven, and eight as well. |
| 00:40:39.92 | Lily | Thank you. and then |
| 00:40:50.36 | Lily | the inclusionary housing. The previous 6, 7, 8. Those have now been moved up into the other options that could be considered. |
| 00:40:50.75 | Linda Pfeifer | The inclusionary house in England. I'm not a nation. |
| 00:40:58.03 | Lily | Thank you. |
| 00:40:58.04 | Linda Pfeifer | Okay. |
| 00:40:58.40 | Lily | So part of your packet this evening, those distinctions have been made. |
| 00:41:02.23 | Linda Pfeifer | So the Valhalla is still being considered. The Butte site is still being considered. The Rodeo site is still being considered. And... Okay. |
| 00:41:18.97 | Mary Wagner | Mr. Mayor, if I may jump in there too, Council Member Pfeiffer. |
| 00:41:21.74 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 00:41:21.77 | Linda Pfeifer | I remember. |
| 00:41:22.36 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. |
| 00:41:23.14 | Mary Wagner | I want to... And I know you all know this, but for purposes of the record, These are the options that the task force is bringing forward to the public to get input to come to the council about what's going to be in your housing element that then has to go to the state to get certified. I would just caution you not to say something's completely off the table because HCD may come back and say this isn't enough and we need to keep the options list in consideration. |
| 00:41:46.46 | Jonathan Leone | Yeah. All that Lily said was that they were not being considered for this particular workshop. Correct. That's all that she said. |
| 00:41:52.18 | Mary Wagner | at the- Correct. |
| 00:41:57.85 | Carolyn Ford | Mr. Mayor. |
| 00:42:00.13 | Herb Weiner | I'll remember forward. |
| 00:42:01.93 | Carolyn Ford | I'm not sure. |
| 00:42:05.70 | Carolyn Ford | Oh no. Thank you. cut my question Oh, no. It came back. I won't say it to you. |
| 00:42:11.91 | Linda Pfeifer | I won't say it to you. |
| 00:42:15.35 | Carolyn Ford | The, uh... For the chart. There are. I would like to ask if staff would include the number of units we would need to include additional units, and liveaboards that we would need to include to satisfy our RHNA requirements with just those two categories. Now, the assumptions are going to be less than 1 1 But I want to have that included just so the public knows what we're talking about here. |
| 00:43:02.43 | Carolyn Ford | And we'd like to have those included at the workshop. And the main reason for that is that there has been a lot of interest in the people I have talked to in meeting our requirements that way. And if we can, we should. |
| 00:43:18.24 | Linda Pfeifer | And Mr. Mayor, I have a question. |
| 00:43:20.55 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 00:43:20.60 | Jonathan Leone | That's just a suggestion, Lily. That's not something the council has agreed to. |
| 00:43:20.64 | Carolyn Ford | That's just... That's not something. I'm asking the question, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor, I'm asking the question. Can staff and will staff, I guess I should ask our city manager, include such a chart? |
| 00:43:26.98 | Jonathan Leone | The city. I'm asking the question. |
| 00:43:29.97 | Adam Politzer | you |
| 00:43:37.53 | Adam Politzer | Well, I think what Council Member Leon was going to say, we take direction from the council, so the council will give direction and staff. If that's the direction of the council, staff will do it. If the council doesn't direct it and staff and the task force thinks that it's appropriate, then they would make that recommendation. back to the Council. So what we have before you tonight is open for discussion and if there is direction Um, Thank you. |
| 00:44:02.72 | Herb Weiner | Other than that. |
| 00:44:03.26 | Adam Politzer | for us to do more than what we brought forward in Lily's staff report. We're open and willing to take it. |
| 00:44:11.58 | Linda Pfeifer | Okay. |
| 00:44:12.44 | Herb Weiner | Okay? |
| 00:44:13.24 | Linda Pfeifer | Mr. Mayor, I have a question. |
| 00:44:14.42 | Herb Weiner | Council Member Vyver. |
| 00:44:16.66 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. So in the staff report, there is a reference to Units that we are- |
| 00:44:28.58 | Heidi Scoble | QUESTION. |
| 00:44:28.96 | Linda Pfeifer | Right. |
| 00:44:30.58 | Linda Pfeifer | Yes, I'm getting to my question. There is a reference to on page 6A9 the units that we are taking credit for that have been built. I think people forget that we're on two cycles here and so in fact |
| 00:44:31.22 | Linda Pfeifer | Okay. Okay. |
| 00:44:48.24 | Linda Pfeifer | new units have been built and we have a total of 55 listed here. And I was wondering if Council could get the addresses of those 55 units |
| 00:45:06.14 | Jonathan Leone | But, What type of units are these over here? |
| 00:45:09.55 | Lily | Those are units that have been constructed since 1999. So the majority of them are single family houses. Some of them are duplexes. One is the Olima site. |
| 00:45:25.29 | Linda Pfeifer | And my second question is, is it possible that to add to what Councilmember Ford raised? |
| 00:45:36.80 | Herb Weiner | Are you speaking to yourself now? This could go on talking to ourselves. Anyway, go ahead. |
| 00:45:43.91 | Linda Pfeifer | was that the second unit and live aboard mixture include the 55 new constructed units as well in that factor because I know that it's my understanding that those 55 are built since 1999 and so they are new construction and so when you look at what Well, anyway, that's my question. |
| 00:46:16.86 | Herb Weiner | House of Member Leon. |
| 00:46:18.97 | Lily | Councilmember Piper, I'm not sure I understand the. |
| 00:46:19.76 | Linda Pfeifer | Pfeiffer? Oh, I'm sorry. Well, Council Member Ford requested that her suggestion was that for the public, you compile a scenario that would use just second units and liveaboards. And my question was, could you create a scenario to meet the housing element, RHNA, by using second units, liveaboards, as well as the 55 newly constructed units on page 689. I understand. Thank you. Can you do that? That was my suggestion. Yeah, if I can jump in again. Non-direction suggestion. |
| 00:46:56.64 | Adam Politzer | Can you do that? That was my suggestion. Councilmember Williams, I can jump in again. Thank you. It's the same response, so the council would give us direction if that's what you want us to bring forward. And just a reminder, Get through the council. We have a full... load of work that our planning department has to take on. So any additional work you want us to do takes away from another assignment. So if this is a priority of the council, then absolutely staff would do this work. Also worth noting that this is workshop number two of a very long process. So as this information is important to the council to bring forward now, then and directed by the council staff will bring this information forward. you Can I just make one other comment in terms of just clarifying? The questions that should be coming to staff, |
| 00:47:41.17 | Jonathon Goldman | Can I just make one of the... |
| 00:47:42.03 | Herb Weiner | I'm a good one. |
| 00:47:42.28 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. |
| 00:47:47.57 | Adam Politzer | really should be on the staff report and the information asking for clarification. And I think that Councilmember Ford did a nice job in sending us that email asking real specific questions and gave staff the opportunity to respond. But the questions that I think that I'm hearing now are really questions of the council to give direction back to the staff, asking us if we can do the work Of course we can do the work if that's directed. But if it's really related to tell me what these numbers mean or what were your assumptions, those are questions that staff are responsible for answering tonight and are appropriate. I try to draw the line between what questions should be amongst you folks. that then provide direction to staff going forward. |
| 00:48:32.96 | Herb Weiner | Okay. Council Member Lyon. |
| 00:48:35.51 | Adam Politzer | Thank you. |
| 00:48:35.53 | Jonathan Leone | Yeah, Lily, you already have the 22 in your chart. You already have the 22 affordable housing units in the 55, 33, units built, which my guess would not be they were built on vacant land. And most of them were built on land that had occupancy on them before, having lived through some of these. it's not going to really tilt the matter, except for the 22 is really where you're going to get some benefit. |
| 00:49:00.72 | Lily | The 55 are units that we can credit as being a net gain in housing units in the city. a single family home on a parcel and they knocked it down and built a duplex, we could get one unit from that. So the 55 are... |
| 00:49:13.75 | Heidi Scoble | Right. |
| 00:49:14.12 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 00:49:14.14 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. the 55. |
| 00:49:16.95 | Lily | encompass that number. The 22 are on the affordable spectrum. The 33 are the above moderate. |
| 00:49:18.57 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:49:24.88 | Lily | Thank you. |
| 00:49:24.90 | Jonathan Leone | And they're already in the blue chart. That's correct. |
| 00:49:25.12 | Lily | I'm sorry. you you So, thank you. |
| 00:49:27.91 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah. |
| 00:49:27.94 | Lily | Thank you. |
| 00:49:27.97 | Linda Pfeifer | I referred to the chart. |
| 00:49:30.37 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 00:49:30.39 | Herb Weiner | Okay. |
| 00:49:30.64 | Jonathan Leone | You don't need to come up with a new chart. They're already in here. |
| 00:49:33.57 | Herb Weiner | there Okay, this time here, any public comment on this? Mr. Donald? |
| 00:49:50.16 | Chuck Donald | You're going to be on vacation next month, so I better ask all my questions now. Now, this is a short one, but it has a lot to do. As you can imagine, there's a lot of talk going on in the community, informal, small groups, about the housing, the forum that's coming up and the background of it. One of the questions that came up was, someone mentioned, there was a court case, a litigation, a court case. Case. underway now. and maybe it has been settled, maybe it doesn't exist. But if the city, can say tonight there is no litigation pending That could answer my question. If there is some litigation pending, that's going to make the forum quite a bit different when it occurs. Thank you. Mary. |
| 00:50:35.27 | Mary Wagner | There's no litigation involving the city and affordable housing or the housing element that I am aware of. |
| 00:50:43.22 | Chuck Donald | May I expand on that in the other half a minute? Mary answered the question in the specific context of this city. The question arose that another city a municipality may have initiated litigation Are we aware of any other city that might have done it? Because... |
| 00:51:03.30 | Mary Wagner | Yes. The question is, did a city in Marin County initiate litigation regarding the health mailman? My question is, do you know? |
| 00:51:03.87 | Chuck Donald | It's a question. |
| 00:51:09.02 | Chuck Donald | My question is, do you know if any other one has? |
| 00:51:12.36 | Herb Weiner | Is that in Marin or in California? |
| 00:51:15.23 | Chuck Donald | Well, it was in Marin County. But it will affect the whole state eventually. And that bears on the question, because I think there's probably no litigation. The person that uses that terminology was talking about Ah. discussions that are going on at the legislative level of the state. And calling that a court case is not exactly right, if that's what was meant. And so that's why I asked specifically if there is a a court case filed anywhere Well, in Merton County in particular, but anywhere in the state. that questions the legislature's authority to do what they're doing. that is setting all these rules that these poor guys are working on. |
| 00:52:01.84 | Mary Wagner | Not that I'm aware of. I think that that's a very broad question. It is. It's a very broad question. And there may be what stage it's at, what the validity of the challenges are. I'm not... |
| 00:52:06.63 | Chuck Donald | It is. It's a very broad question. |
| 00:52:14.44 | Mary Wagner | aware of there is you know there are cases that have occurred in Marin County involving affordable housing and housing element |
| 00:52:14.71 | Chuck Donald | Yeah. There is a... |
| 00:52:23.32 | Mary Wagner | In the past. |
| 00:52:23.79 | Chuck Donald | in the past. |
| 00:52:25.92 | Mary Wagner | If there's challenges to existing legislation, I have not reviewed those. of a |
| 00:52:32.67 | Chuck Donald | Thank you. I think you've answered my question. You're not aware of me. |
| 00:52:34.86 | Mary Wagner | Yeah. |
| 00:52:35.74 | Chuck Donald | Thank you. |
| 00:52:35.76 | Herb Weiner | No. Chuck, every city, especially in Mariners, they're really struggling with this. Oh, I know. Because this isn't something that we wanted. This is something that's been put on us. Yes. And I think even our legislators are still fighting, debating which is the best direction or what changes we should make. And even ABAC is aware of that. Whether they make the changes or not, we're still under a deadline obligation. And I would not want this city not really doing his due diligence and face |
| 00:52:43.30 | Linda Pfeifer | because this isn't something |
| 00:52:49.24 | Chuck Donald | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:52:53.43 | Chuck Donald | Question. |
| 00:53:18.10 | Herb Weiner | anything that would be punitive to a |
| 00:53:21.07 | Chuck Donald | I think it's a matter of semantics when someone uses The word court case, I think they were talking about the debate at the legislature, at legislation level, but I just wanted to be sure that everybody was thinking the same way. If there is none, That we know of. |
| 00:53:34.26 | Herb Weiner | No. |
| 00:53:34.92 | Chuck Donald | pending, that's one case. If there is some pending that we know of, that's a different case. Thank you. |
| 00:53:38.94 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. I want to. Any other comments from the public on this item? Okay, let's bring it back up to our Council. Any other questions, comments? |
| 00:53:55.09 | Carolyn Ford | Mr. Mayor. |
| 00:53:56.18 | Herb Weiner | Council member Ford. |
| 00:53:57.35 | Carolyn Ford | And... I think that the city should not be considering affordable housing complexes when the possibility exists that we can use second units and live aboards to fulfill our housing requirements. There is no risk in taking an aggressive approach with the state. At worst, as we've heard tonight, we have to resubmit the report. There's everything to gain in that we can keep the character of our small, already built-out town. So for the workshop, I would like to see a chart that shows the overall position of Sausalito, a chart that includes, as we've discussed earlier, the units built since 1999, the additional units, possibilities, and liveaboards. And I'd like to see that chart have the... the number necessary to achieve our RHNA numbers. with the applicable percentages that would go along with that. This is an aggressive approach, and I think we should take it, rather than tiptoeing generally around it. And I also believe that until we present this These numbers to the public. that we're not showing all the options correctly and that we are not being truly transparent. So I move that the city have a chart at the workshop that fairly shows the option of dealing with, that includes, let me start over. I move that the city present a chart at the workshop that shows the overall position of Sausalito including units built since 1999 the ADU possibilities and liveaboards to satisfy our arena requirements |
| 00:56:12.79 | Jonathan Leone | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 00:56:13.75 | Carolyn Ford | in addition to all the other options. |
| 00:56:13.76 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 00:56:13.78 | Herb Weiner | In addition. Council Member. I second. My own. |
| 00:56:17.75 | Carolyn Ford | Second. |
| 00:56:18.95 | Jonathan Leone | It's already in this blue chart. |
| 00:56:22.05 | Carolyn Ford | uh, |
| 00:56:22.09 | Jonathan Leone | THE END OF THE END OF THE Mr. Mayor. I don't feel the need to, and it's not a question that it's already in, these numbers are already in these. Well, excuse me, Mr. Mayor. |
| 00:56:22.73 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 00:56:22.83 | Carolyn Ford | mr mayor uh i don't think Thank you. |
| 00:56:25.43 | Herb Weiner | Um, |
| 00:56:30.61 | Carolyn Ford | Well, excuse me, Mr. Mayor. The numbers are in the chart, but they're hard to decipher. All I'm asking is that they be pulled out and that they be expanded to show what it would take to meet our RHNA requirements with just ADUs and liveaboards. Because right now in the chart, we see that there are the, there's the rezoning options as well. So I'm not asking that we not present the rezoning. I'm just asking that in addition to rezoning, we |
| 00:56:57.98 | Jonathon Goldman | So, |
| 00:57:05.10 | Carolyn Ford | make a separate chart that shows what we would have to do to satisfy our requirement by using simply ADUs, what we've built so far, and the liveaboards, and then give the public that chance to weigh in on that. That's only fair. Ask the public if they want to take the risk. |
| 00:57:25.94 | Jonathan Leone | It's already in here. So I think most people can do math and this is right there. Isn't it? These numbers are right here on every single sheet. |
| 00:57:27.05 | Herb Weiner | to Councilmember Leon. |
| 00:57:31.86 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. |
| 00:57:31.90 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 00:57:31.93 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 00:57:31.96 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 00:57:31.98 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 00:57:32.10 | Carolyn Ford | It's not in there. |
| 00:57:32.84 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 00:57:32.94 | Jonathon Goldman | isn't it? |
| 00:57:34.26 | Herb Weiner | Right here. |
| 00:57:34.61 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 00:57:34.72 | Herb Weiner | All right. |
| 00:57:34.85 | Jeremy Graves | Yeah. |
| 00:57:36.03 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 00:57:36.05 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 00:57:36.07 | Herb Weiner | Excuse me. |
| 00:57:37.03 | Jonathan Leone | It's just different assumptions of uptake on all these different strategies. |
| 00:57:37.21 | Herb Weiner | I just love it. |
| 00:57:40.15 | Carolyn Ford | What I'm asking is to have the assumptions changed to show what our numbers would be. If we used only 80 use, the units currently built since 1999 and liveaboards as an option, Council Member Leon, not necessarily as the only option, but just as one option. |
| 00:57:49.61 | Linda Pfeifer | If- |
| 00:58:06.93 | Adam Politzer | Mr. Mayor, if I may help here in terms of the council's agreed protocols to allow, I'm watching the city clerk here trying to do the three minutes and one minute discussion so that we're not interrupting each other. and everyone has an opportunity to speak. So if it helps the mayor direct the city clerk to continue to use the clock here so that each member of the council has their opportunity to speak and then rebut if they so choose. |
| 00:58:35.84 | Linda Pfeifer | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 00:58:35.92 | Adam Politzer | Okay. |
| 00:58:35.94 | Linda Pfeifer | . |
| 00:58:35.97 | Herb Weiner | Take care. This housing task force has spent |
| 00:58:36.75 | Linda Pfeifer | Uh, uh, uh, uh, Bye. |
| 00:58:45.10 | Herb Weiner | a good amount of time setting up this workshop. I think they, and this is the second workshop. It isn't like we're gonna have just two. So I think Uh, I think that the task force has done A good job. They've done their job. and And I think Saturday after we all go to that meeting, which I'm sure we'll all be there, then we could plan on the third workshop on what steps. But I have faith in the task force. It's made up of very competent people. And the staff is very, very confident. And this is the second one. workshop as I said so I really feel And it's only a few days away. And then we choose, this council will choose with the information that we get, the makeup of the third workshop. So that's the way I feel about that. |
| 00:59:46.12 | Linda Pfeifer | Mr. Mayor. |
| 00:59:47.22 | Herb Weiner | Council Member Pfeiffer. |
| 00:59:47.66 | Linda Pfeifer | Number five. So first of all, with respect to the comment that Council Member Ford's request is already in this blue chart, What I see in this blue chart is I see ADUs mixed up with rezoning for high density residential, rezoning for non-residential, that's our open space. In, I mean, all the second units are mixed up in every single block. with rezoning for high density, these overlay zones, and losing our open space, the request |
| 01:00:20.61 | Jonathan Leone | The request. Converting open space to residential. |
| 01:00:25.00 | Linda Pfeifer | Well, if you translate this to the key and you go back to the key, it does identify open space, Council Member Leon. That's just for the... |
| 01:00:25.96 | Herb Weiner | It's like this. |
| 01:00:26.62 | Jonathan Leone | Bye. |
| 01:00:34.40 | Herb Weiner | That's just for the 50, 50 properties in half by the city. Wait a minute. One at a time. |
| 01:00:38.42 | Linda Pfeifer | HITS. |
| 01:00:38.69 | Jonathan Leone | Yeah. |
| 01:00:39.36 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. And it includes capacity on vacant and underdeveloped sites. Here we have 437 in every category. I mean, for vacant and underdeveloped sites. This is the point that is being made here is that the request is to have a separate chart that says if we were to include liveaboards and second units, and the second units would be without the parking assumptions that have been placed, in my opinion, without justification to reduce those second unit numbers for future units, as well as the 55 newly constructed units since 1999. And to include that as a viable option, as a chart. That is what I'm hearing. And I would make an addendum to the motion, which would be to to include the ADU, the future ADU projections without the parking restrictions that were placed by city staff on those numbers. |
| 01:01:59.48 | Herb Weiner | So we have a motion, is that it? |
| 01:02:01.58 | Linda Pfeifer | I would second that motion. |
| 01:02:03.92 | Herb Weiner | Okay. |
| 01:02:04.87 | Jonathan Leone | That's what he... |
| 01:02:06.45 | Herb Weiner | Okay. |
| 01:02:06.47 | Linda Pfeifer | Okay, again, that is not in here. |
| 01:02:09.37 | Herb Weiner | Excuse me, there's a motion on. |
| 01:02:10.45 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah. Thank you. |
| 01:02:12.65 | Carolyn Ford | it. |
| 01:02:12.80 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:02:13.12 | Herb Weiner | We're going to vote on the motion. |
| 01:02:14.59 | Carolyn Ford | No, I have another comment. I want to discuss this a little more, Mr. Mayor. you |
| 01:02:19.34 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 01:02:19.38 | Carolyn Ford | I'm going to call them a little bit. |
| 01:02:19.46 | Jonathan Leone | I'm going to call the motion, please. Can we call the motion? Because we're going to go in circles for hours. |
| 01:02:22.53 | Carolyn Ford | I'm going to call for more discussion. Well, we can call the motion, but I'm going to call for more discussion then after the motion. |
| 01:02:28.64 | Jonathan Leone | And... |
| 01:02:28.96 | Herb Weiner | Go ahead. All right. |
| 01:02:32.03 | Jonathan Leone | He made a motion, you seconded it. |
| 01:02:33.81 | Herb Weiner | Yeah, that's right. The protocol is that we, a motion is on the floor and it was seconded. |
| 01:02:34.50 | Jonathan Leone | Mr. White. Thank you. |
| 01:02:37.45 | Linda Pfeifer | and it was septic. Okay. |
| 01:02:38.97 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. Is that right? You seconded? I do. Yeah, she... |
| 01:02:41.23 | Linda Pfeifer | I did. I made the amendment and Caroline submitted it. |
| 01:02:43.81 | Herb Weiner | Okay. There's emotion, though. |
| 01:02:53.65 | Debbie | website. you |
| 01:02:58.34 | Debbie | Councilmember Pfeiffer. |
| 01:02:59.71 | Linda Pfeifer | Yes. |
| 01:03:01.52 | Debbie | Council Member Leone. |
| 01:03:02.85 | Mike Kelly | No. |
| 01:03:04.37 | Debbie | Councilmember Ford. |
| 01:03:05.38 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 01:03:05.40 | Carolyn Ford | Yes. |
| 01:03:06.85 | Debbie | Mayor Weiner. |
| 01:03:08.35 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 01:03:08.37 | Carolyn Ford | know. |
| 01:03:08.74 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 01:03:09.70 | Debbie | Thank you. |
| 01:03:09.73 | Carolyn Ford | Mr. Mayor. |
| 01:03:09.77 | Debbie | Thank you. |
| 01:03:10.73 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 01:03:10.76 | Carolyn Ford | Yes. I'd like to continue the discussion and I would ask that we turn on the clock I have one minute and what I would like to say is that actually I'd like to ask Lily how long it would take to prepare a chart of the nature I asked for secondly I would like to make sure that we have all the options in front of the public for the second meeting because it's my understanding that the council is going to be presented with a draft. |
| 01:03:21.56 | Jonathon Goldman | is |
| 01:03:44.06 | Carolyn Ford | Before. we have yet another workshop so I want to make sure that the input we get from the public considers all options so I don't understand why anyone would not want to consider all the options. And I don't understand why this has become such a big deal in terms of showing getting more information. Information is key to any decision. So I would ask Lily how long she thinks it would take her to do the chart that I requested. |
| 01:04:28.88 | Linda Pfeifer | And I would comment that I would be happy to create a draft chart for city staff based on all of the data I already have on this if it would save them time. |
| 01:04:37.59 | Herb Weiner | if it would save them time. What do we have a task force for? |
| 01:04:44.08 | Heidi Scoble | The question is made as a protocol |
| 01:04:46.04 | Herb Weiner | Yeah. Can we move on? Okay, I have another motion. |
| 01:04:48.45 | Linda Pfeifer | Bye. |
| 01:04:48.47 | Heidi Scoble | OK. |
| 01:04:48.98 | Linda Pfeifer | I have another motion. Well, actually, I first would like to hear from city staff. |
| 01:05:03.29 | Jonathan Leone | This is just an information, there's no motion to be made. |
| 01:05:05.21 | Herb Weiner | No motion, there is none. This was just an informational presentation, but- |
| 01:05:11.01 | Carolyn Ford | Just to make it. |
| 01:05:11.66 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah. |
| 01:05:11.71 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 01:05:11.76 | Linda Pfeifer | But this |
| 01:05:12.47 | Carolyn Ford | Mr. Mayor. Yes, sir. |
| 01:05:13.61 | Herb Weiner | Yes. |
| 01:05:14.14 | Carolyn Ford | MAKING A LITTLE BIT OF This was for Council to give their input to the workshop. I specifically remembered that this item was continued once, if not twice. and it was for Council to give their input into the workshop. So you did. And that's what we're doing. |
| 01:05:29.09 | Herb Weiner | So you did. He did. |
| 01:05:31.37 | Carolyn Ford | No, I'm not finished. I want to hear how long the simple chart is going to take to do. Okay. And I respect Councilmember Pfeiffer's offer, and I would be happy to offer the same. I think it's too important in getting the information out to the public not to. |
| 01:05:34.81 | Herb Weiner | Okay. Okay. |
| 01:05:52.66 | Herb Weiner | No, no, you can't. There's nothing. |
| 01:05:54.99 | Carolyn Ford | you |
| 01:05:55.23 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 01:06:10.50 | Lily | So creating the chart that Council Members Ford and Pfeiffer have been talking about wouldn't take very much time at all because it's really just taking the RHNA, subtracting the units built, taking the remaining need that's on this chart and then |
| 01:06:25.84 | Linda Pfeifer | Mm-hmm. |
| 01:06:26.33 | Lily | I don't know if we divide it equally in between level boards or ADUs. I don't know if that's the council's direction. but the assumptions behind that wouldn't be there anymore. Or we wouldn't be able to evaluate that. It wouldn't be evaluated by staff. It wouldn't be evaluated by the task force. really wouldn't know what that means. It's basically just a mathematical |
| 01:06:50.24 | Carolyn Ford | Right, but isn't that all it is anyway? It's just the starting place for the percentages right now? |
| 01:06:50.27 | Lily | Right. |
| 01:06:58.59 | Carolyn Ford | the one eight, the one two, the one quarter and the one third? |
| 01:07:02.26 | Lily | There are a number of assumptions that went into the different calculations for the ADUs and the LIVO boards. The 1 8th was one assumption. Um, the... Depending on the different strategies, so for the light strategy, for example, there was assumption that all property owners needed to provide a parking space for that ADU. And so that's why the parking assumption went into that calculation. |
| 01:07:21.46 | Jonathon Goldman | to be able to get the |
| 01:07:21.47 | Heidi Scoble | EU. |
| 01:07:25.29 | Lily | For the heavy strategy, there was assumption that no parking would be required at all for the ADU. |
| 01:07:30.76 | Linda Pfeifer | Mm-hmm. |
| 01:07:31.43 | Lily | I'll look. across town and all different neighborhoods would be allowed to have ADUs. The lighter strategy only allowed certain neighborhoods to have ADUs. So those trade-offs wouldn't be behind those |
| 01:07:40.70 | Carolyn Ford | MS. Right. And that would be understood and staff should explain it that way, that this is what we would need to do. This would be a very aggressive approach. It may or may not be accepted by the state, but it is an option. |
| 01:07:43.68 | Lily | Right. No. |
| 01:07:59.85 | Carolyn Ford | So I'm saying that the assumption would be that we just include all of them and go for it, basically. |
| 01:08:02.95 | Jonathon Goldman | that |
| 01:08:09.11 | Carolyn Ford | whatever the percentages turn out to be, whether they're one-fourth, whether they're half, or whatever they turn out to be, but then just show what it would require. No valid, no really, no, you wouldn't be including the same assumptions. It wouldn't be based on assumptions. |
| 01:08:31.35 | Lily | What we would essentially be doing is taking the remaining need row in the chart. And so, for example, the light strategy, that's 59 for very low. I suppose we could just divide that 59 into ADUs of liveaboard. |
| 01:08:49.07 | Carolyn Ford | Oh, I would not divide it into three heavy light and medium. Just one. This would be just separate. This would be a separate chart that said here's what we would need to do. to satisfy our requirements. if we chose to do only ADUs and liveaboards. Because we have the total numbers, it's just a manage of percentages. |
| 01:09:10.71 | Herb Weiner | It's just a matter of time. It's in here. |
| 01:09:16.02 | Carolyn Ford | So anyway. It's an option. And it would take you very little time. |
| 01:09:22.00 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:09:22.03 | Lily | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 01:09:22.23 | Carolyn Ford | to do that calculation of |
| 01:09:23.97 | Lily | subtracting it. It's actually there. We were just taking the information from the chart and I suppose putting it in a separate chart. The assumptions, there would be no assumptions behind it. |
| 01:09:24.38 | Carolyn Ford | Yeah. It's there. |
| 01:09:29.64 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 01:09:29.66 | Linda Pfeifer | You're rude. |
| 01:09:30.50 | Carolyn Ford | . |
| 01:09:34.08 | Lily | Right. |
| 01:09:34.62 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 01:09:35.41 | Lily | there would be no. |
| 01:09:36.04 | Carolyn Ford | assumptions behind it. |
| 01:09:37.52 | Linda Pfeifer | I already have it. It's 190. |
| 01:09:39.31 | Carolyn Ford | Go ahead. |
| 01:09:39.90 | Linda Pfeifer | If I may, Mr. Mayor. |
| 01:09:41.59 | Heidi Scoble | Go ahead. |
| 01:09:42.60 | Linda Pfeifer | I think perhaps then we might be talking about a slightly different thing because I think I'm not talking about taking the heavy count the heavy number for second units. |
| 01:09:54.75 | Linda Pfeifer | Yes. |
| 01:09:55.00 | Linda Pfeifer | I'm talking about removing the assumptions that were placed around parking. I believe, as I mentioned before, that I think the survey question around parking was confusing and invalid and misleading with respect to future ADUs. And so my question is that we, and I have it in my records, you know, what city staff did with their prior formula |
| 01:10:10.61 | Heidi Scoble | Mm-hmm. |
| 01:10:22.43 | Linda Pfeifer | where they were, you know, reducing, I think, the original projection, if we took the survey percentage and projected it across, that was, let's see, 16% of those surveys said they would add an ADU, 16% applied to Saucyutu's population. That comes up to 526 ADUs for an example. Okay. Uh, what I'm saying... |
| 01:10:53.12 | Herb Weiner | Time's up. You had one minute. |
| 01:10:57.14 | Linda Pfeifer | That's my point. |
| 01:10:58.61 | Jonathan Leone | I don't know why we're going in circles, but we should move on. But if you use this 10, yeah. |
| 01:10:58.77 | Herb Weiner | Bye. |
| 01:10:58.81 | Linda Pfeifer | Well, it's time to jump. |
| 01:10:59.89 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 01:11:00.55 | Linda Pfeifer | Okay. |
| 01:11:03.15 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah, 520. |
| 01:11:03.97 | Linda Pfeifer | Bye. |
| 01:11:04.02 | Linda Pfeifer | It's not on. |
| 01:11:04.97 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:11:05.03 | Linda Pfeifer | Yes. |
| 01:11:05.12 | Linda Pfeifer | you |
| 01:11:05.19 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:11:05.29 | Linda Pfeifer | I'm sorry. |
| 01:11:05.34 | Linda Pfeifer | All right. |
| 01:11:05.46 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:11:05.91 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:11:05.95 | Linda Pfeifer | is |
| 01:11:06.03 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:11:06.34 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah. |
| 01:11:06.57 | Linda Pfeifer | and all that. |
| 01:11:06.98 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:11:07.03 | Linda Pfeifer | It's true. |
| 01:11:07.23 | Linda Pfeifer | Bye. |
| 01:11:08.19 | Herb Weiner | Excuse me. We're going to move off of this subject now. |
| 01:11:13.17 | Linda Pfeifer | I have a motion, Mr. Mayor. |
| 01:11:16.61 | Herb Weiner | Go ahead. |
| 01:11:17.05 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:11:17.07 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 01:11:17.88 | Linda Pfeifer | So the other part of this in providing city staff with input is that we have the historic Valhalla on our list of options, which causes me great concern. And I move, I know that city staff has already confirmed that the Marinship and MLK has been identified, as well as the school site at Nevada have been identified as not to be considered. And I would move that the Valhalla, the historic Valhalla be moved as well, providing city staff direction that the Valhalla be moved to the list of sites not to be considered. |
| 01:11:23.24 | Linda Pfeifer | I'm sorry. |
| 01:12:02.38 | Carolyn Ford | I would second that. |
| 01:12:04.91 | Jonathan Leone | Okay. |
| 01:12:05.16 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 01:12:05.19 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 01:12:07.29 | Linda Pfeifer | discussion. |
| 01:12:08.33 | Jonathan Leone | From a clarity standpoint, as we said earlier in the session, those three things that you said, they're not not to be considered, they're not presented at this stage. |
| 01:12:16.20 | Herb Weiner | this |
| 01:12:17.51 | Jonathan Leone | Not that I'm in favor of any of those three, but those three are not even proposed to meet our requirements at this workshop in terms of |
| 01:12:19.74 | Herb Weiner | We are at the Witts. |
| 01:12:25.06 | Linda Pfeifer | Fine, then my point is that the Valhalla be joining the friendship and mental cancer. |
| 01:12:26.07 | Jonathan Leone | My... the Marin shipping metal here. Have you been inside with that guy that's the Valhalla? There's nothing left of the interior of Valhalla. The guy who bought it from J.R. Roberts and Paul Albritt, so all the historic value of the inside |
| 01:12:35.86 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. |
| 01:12:35.89 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:12:35.91 | Herb Weiner | from Darrell. |
| 01:12:36.77 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah. |
| 01:12:37.43 | Jonathon Goldman | It's a good thing. |
| 01:12:41.38 | Jonathan Leone | is gone. He tore out the bar. He destroyed the kitchen. Everything is gone. It's a shell. And it doesn't work as a restaurant because it's too big. That's why no one has ever rented it. And now that you'd have to start from scratch to build a restaurant because there's no longer a kitchen. |
| 01:12:46.81 | Jonathon Goldman | it. |
| 01:12:51.21 | Carolyn Ford | And now, point of order, Mr. Mayor. We're not here to talk about the Baha'u. I had my minute. She just made a motion. |
| 01:12:55.41 | Jonathan Leone | We're not here to talk about the Bahá'á. to you. |
| 01:12:59.80 | Herb Weiner | Wait a minute, relax. Go ahead. Finish a minute. Finish your minute. |
| 01:13:02.72 | Jonathan Leone | Finish your minute. Um, And so the historic quality of Valhalla is the exterior at this point because there's nothing left of the interior. So putting in units inside the Valhalla does not detract from the historical relevance of the exterior since the use would be hard put to come back as it was. So anyway. |
| 01:13:26.30 | Herb Weiner | Listen, I have a motion. |
| 01:13:26.78 | Jonathan Leone | We have a lot of weeks. |
| 01:13:30.68 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 01:13:30.84 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 01:13:30.87 | Herb Weiner | to go for |
| 01:13:30.89 | Jonathan Leone | and a good friend. hours and |
| 01:13:31.97 | Herb Weiner | is. |
| 01:13:32.47 | Linda Pfeifer | I have a comment to that, which is... |
| 01:13:34.84 | Herb Weiner | Let's do the motion first then. |
| 01:13:36.51 | Linda Pfeifer | Well, it's regarding emotions. |
| 01:13:36.98 | Carolyn Ford | It's regarding motion. I would motion. I'm sorry. |
| 01:13:41.70 | Herb Weiner | I feel like a chicken and an egg. Go ahead. |
| 01:13:41.72 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 01:13:44.76 | Carolyn Ford | Okay. Well, I cannot. understand why we cannot have the chart. So I amend the motion. To have So, this is there. Produce the charge. with the ADUs, once again, I just, it takes very little time. Let's produce that option. And please tell me why we can't. I guess this is more of a discussion. I'm back to discussing this. But please tell me why we can't why we cannot show the option of using ADUs and Um, and the liveaboards. The thing that was presented to this council at one time, a couple of months or so ago, was a plan where they could be used. I would like to see that plan shown as an option, as an aggressive option, yes, but as an option that residents can take a look at. And that is very, very simple. |
| 01:14:52.10 | Linda Pfeifer | Well, I- Mr. Mayor. |
| 01:14:53.54 | Herb Weiner | Go ahead, I'm listening. |
| 01:14:55.01 | Linda Pfeifer | So I would concur. I would say that I think the initial option that was presented last year was probably when the survey was still, you know, it was just about to wrap up. In fact, the numbers are even higher for second units now since that presentation. So the data that we have, which is not, by the way, on this chart, would be quite robust with respect to second units. And the fact that Sausalito has a second unit strategy, a policy right now that makes second units illegal when California legislation requires us to make them legal gives us a very good ground to stand on with Sacramento and HCD with respect to creating a policy that makes them legal and that embraces this as an affordable housing solution. And it disperses affordable housing equally across Sausalito. |
| 01:15:22.68 | Jonathon Goldman | With retirement. |
| 01:15:55.35 | Herb Weiner | Mary? |
| 01:15:56.10 | Carolyn Ford | Exactly. Thank you. |
| 01:15:57.43 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 01:15:57.44 | Carolyn Ford | Mary? |
| 01:15:57.44 | Herb Weiner | Just for a point of clarification, |
| 01:15:57.95 | Mary Wagner | Just for a point of clarification on the second units and the liveaboards, which was part of one of the responses to Councilmember Ford's question, which I think is just important to clarify. |
| 01:15:59.99 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:16:10.79 | Mary Wagner | HCD has given staff direction that only second units and live aboards that were not counted in the census and that do not have approvals from the city are allowed to be counted. So when Lily's talking about the assumptions underlying the I think it's important to understand that we have gotten a response from HCD about some of the assumptions that would need to be made to make that accurate an accurate number. |
| 01:16:38.67 | Linda Pfeifer | Mr. Mayor, if I may respond to counsel's comment. So I'm aware that HCD weighed in with respect to existing second units, but not with respect to future second units. Even if we were to set aside existing and just look at the projections from our survey, with respect to future second units, we're looking at 523 ADUs right there. So, you know, and that's just future projecting forward. And we know that's after 1999. So anyway, I concur that I, and I've said this from the beginning, I don't understand what the problem is with just submitting this for transparency's sake to the citizens of Sausalito to let them know that this is a viable option. |
| 01:17:26.85 | Herb Weiner | Well, that's your choice. Thank you. |
| 01:17:29.33 | Linda Pfeifer | Leave a motion. |
| 01:17:29.35 | Herb Weiner | We have a motion. I know. |
| 01:17:31.54 | Linda Pfeifer | I moved to create a chart that... that presents RENA allocation achievement through 55 of the new unit construction, liveaboards and the future. |
| 01:17:40.18 | Linda Pfeifer | They won't let go. |
| 01:17:40.97 | Jonathon Goldman | Creep, princess. |
| 01:17:53.97 | Linda Pfeifer | Second unit. per the survey without staff assumptions. |
| 01:17:55.74 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 01:17:59.94 | Carolyn Ford | Well, and I second that motion as we have more units, 523, for future than are actually required for our RENA numbers. 392 it is? That's 72, yeah. |
| 01:18:13.29 | Jonathan Leone | It says, |
| 01:18:15.25 | Carolyn Ford | I second the motion. Thank you. |
| 01:18:16.98 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 01:18:17.03 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 01:18:18.47 | Linda Pfeifer | to call the question? |
| 01:18:19.36 | Jonathan Leone | Debbie. So point of order before you call the question, and then we should just move on, is that |
| 01:18:21.29 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:18:25.12 | Jonathan Leone | You know, the assumptions that you're making or that 100% of all those that are available adopt, you'd still need a 60% conversion rate for liveaboards and for assisted dwelling units, which is unrealistic to say the least. And also you're waiving all zoning that has, that if you're looking at some of the impacts this is gonna have on neighborhoods, if that's your concern about Uh. overlay districts, this creates just a much impact but on a dispersed level. So you have to look at the, be careful what you ask for, you just might get it kind of philosophy I think relates to some of what you're assuming. But given that, let's call it a question. |
| 01:19:03.46 | Linda Pfeifer | I do have a comment, Mr. Mayor. So the comment that was just raised with regards to congestion and density with the second unit policy, the fact that we have a policy that makes them illegal means that we could rewrite that policy and we could include strict parking requirements in that policy. So that is something that could be addressed. |
| 01:19:06.16 | Jonathan Leone | Go ahead. |
| 01:19:26.53 | Jonathan Leone | We just wanted to reverse with no parking requirements. |
| 01:19:26.80 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. Bye. No. No, I did not because what I'm saying is that the survey question on parking was invalid, was misleading, and was not clear. and yielded data as such and should be tossed out. |
| 01:19:45.02 | Jonathan Leone | That was your survey. You wrote that survey. |
| 01:19:46.83 | Linda Pfeifer | And I have an email that I sent to city staff right here that says, let's see, dated August 28, 2010. My biggest feedback on the survey is that the verbs like build, add, construct should be removed because many people I've talked to would create second units within the configuration of their existing home, duplex, triplex. I provided extensive survey feedback. |
| 01:20:10.40 | Jonathan Leone | survey feedback. That doesn't alleviate parking requirements. |
| 01:20:12.63 | Linda Pfeifer | No, no, it does because that was |
| 01:20:15.84 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 01:20:15.94 | Herb Weiner | Because that was. |
| 01:20:18.65 | Linda Pfeifer | I addressed that question as well in feedback to Zina's guest. |
| 01:20:18.92 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. All right, this could go back and forth for the next three hours. We have a motion. |
| 01:20:24.76 | Linda Pfeifer | We have a motion. |
| 01:20:26.92 | Herb Weiner | Debbie? |
| 01:20:30.50 | Jonathan Leone | Call in question. |
| 01:20:32.36 | Debbie | Um... I hate to say this, there are two motions on the floor. Yes. |
| 01:20:37.01 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 01:20:37.03 | Linda Pfeifer | Yes. |
| 01:20:37.33 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 01:20:37.37 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:20:38.48 | Herb Weiner | So you're voting one is |
| 01:20:38.85 | Linda Pfeifer | So your voting one is to remove Valhalla. |
| 01:20:40.05 | Debbie | . |
| 01:20:40.07 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 01:20:40.10 | Debbie | We're going to be right back. So you're voting on the second motion? First. First. First. |
| 01:20:44.34 | Herb Weiner | first. |
| 01:20:45.59 | Linda Pfeifer | for the future second units. |
| 01:20:47.36 | Herb Weiner | here. |
| 01:20:48.13 | Linda Pfeifer | Just for transparency, just Yeah. |
| 01:20:50.73 | Herb Weiner | You have a publisher. |
| 01:20:50.85 | Debbie | You have a publisher. And also member Pfeiffer. |
| 01:20:52.62 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 01:20:52.91 | Carolyn Ford | Yes. |
| 01:20:53.30 | Linda Pfeifer | you |
| 01:20:53.96 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 01:20:53.97 | Carolyn Ford | Which motion is this? |
| 01:20:55.36 | Herb Weiner | This is on the... |
| 01:20:56.96 | Carolyn Ford | including the future human. |
| 01:20:57.62 | Debbie | future humans |
| 01:20:58.70 | Herb Weiner | Second motion. |
| 01:20:59.10 | Debbie | Thank you. |
| 01:20:59.15 | Carolyn Ford | Thanks. |
| 01:20:59.17 | Debbie | Thank you. |
| 01:20:59.19 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 01:20:59.24 | Debbie | Thank you. |
| 01:20:59.27 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 01:20:59.39 | Debbie | It's into the chart. This was on the RENA futures. |
| 01:21:04.25 | Carolyn Ford | Yeah. |
| 01:21:04.76 | Mary Wagner | you |
| 01:21:05.30 | Herb Weiner | The future. |
| 01:21:07.66 | Mary Wagner | Mr. Mayor, for purposes of clarification, if the City Clerk can't restate the motion through no fault of our own. We need to be restated. |
| 01:21:11.29 | Linda Pfeifer | can't restate the motion. See you. |
| 01:21:14.98 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. I will restate it. I move to direct city staff to create a fourth chart that includes second units per the survey for future second units per survey percentages without staff assumptions to include liveaboards as well as the 55 newly constructed units. |
| 01:21:52.19 | Carolyn Ford | I second. Or you were just repeating it. Yes. Okay. |
| 01:21:52.24 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah. |
| 01:21:55.70 | Debbie | you |
| 01:21:56.04 | Herb Weiner | Yeah. |
| 01:21:56.33 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 01:21:56.71 | Debbie | Councilmember Piper. |
| 01:21:58.16 | Carolyn Ford | Yes. |
| 01:21:58.91 | Debbie | Councilmember Leon. Thank you. |
| 01:22:00.36 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 01:22:00.38 | Debbie | Thank you. Councilmember Ford. |
| 01:22:03.11 | Carolyn Ford | Yes. |
| 01:22:04.81 | Debbie | Mayor Weiner. |
| 01:22:06.28 | Herb Weiner | No. |
| 01:22:08.34 | Debbie | Okay. |
| 01:22:09.22 | Herb Weiner | Next motion. The second motion. |
| 01:22:10.03 | Linda Pfeifer | The second motion I made was to move that the city council remove the Valhalla historic structure from the sites currently being considered for presentation at the Saturday workshop and to set them aside as MLK and the Marinship and the Nevada Street school site have been set aside for the Saturday workshop. |
| 01:22:11.26 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. I made... |
| 01:22:41.48 | Linda Pfeifer | To not be included in the workshop. not as a list for not being considered. |
| 01:22:47.44 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 01:22:47.54 | Linda Pfeifer | Council Member Ford, you had seconded that motion, was that correct? |
| 01:22:50.78 | Carolyn Ford | Yes, I had seconded that, and I would like to amend it, to include the open space up on Cypress Ridge as well, that that be... |
| 01:22:59.96 | Linda Pfeifer | I, you Thank you. I accept that. |
| 01:23:04.99 | Linda Pfeifer | Actually, do you want to make it all open space? All open space. So the amendment is all open space. I second it. |
| 01:23:15.57 | Mary Wagner | accept the modification to your own? |
| 01:23:17.49 | Linda Pfeifer | Yes, they do. I modify your amendment. |
| 01:23:17.53 | Mary Wagner | Yes, they do. |
| 01:23:19.01 | Debbie | Bye. |
| 01:23:20.04 | Linda Pfeifer | What? |
| 01:23:22.66 | Debbie | Councilmember Pfeiffer. |
| 01:23:23.84 | Linda Pfeifer | Yes. |
| 01:23:25.32 | Debbie | Councilmember Leon. |
| 01:23:28.55 | Jonathan Leone | Yeah, for clarity's sake, I don't necessarily agree with those as alternatives, but I think the public should consider those just for transparency and full information's sake. So I vote no on the motion. |
| 01:23:45.09 | Debbie | Councilmember Ford. Yes. Councilmember Weiner. |
| 01:23:48.58 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 01:23:48.60 | Herb Weiner | No. You know, we have a housing element for task force that's done, I think, a good job Our staff has done a good job and let them do their job. and let this second workshop go forward and then if we have questions I'm sure that we will then we can address it for the third workshop. So with that let's move on please. Okay, next item. is the update on the Marinship Historical Building Inventory Project. Heidi? |
| 01:24:29.90 | Jonathan Leone | I want to discuss the surplus right away on Woodward Avenue. |
| 01:24:34.80 | Heidi | Good evening Mayor Weiner, members of the City Council. |
| 01:24:36.45 | Jonathan Leone | And then, |
| 01:24:38.21 | Heidi | Hopefully this item will provide a little bit of levity and interesting history for Sausalito. That would be nice. So as the City Council is aware, Knapp and Verplank, Preservation Architects, represented by Christopher Verplank, has been hired to prepare a historic resource evaluation for the machine shop. as well as a historic context statement in inventory of the Marin ship. Back on May 3rd of this year, Mr. Verplank provided a presentation on the machine shop. And just as a little plug, tomorrow night, the Department of Veterans Affair will be hosting a public workshop over at the Bay Model at 6 p.m. regarding proposed modifications to their plan The Machine Shop 25 Liberty Ship. So the purpose of tonight's agenda item is for Mr. Verplank to provide a presentation to the City Council and the public. regarding the historic context statement and the inventory. So with that, I will hand this over to Christopher. |
| 01:25:44.93 | Christopher Verplank | Greetings, Mayor Weiner, council members. With all due respect, I'm not sure if I need a cup of coffee or a cocktail. I'm going to try to keep this pretty brief. Back in May, I appeared before you to discuss the findings of the historic resource evaluation that we prepared for the machine shop. I had a marineship. And since then, we've been working to wrap up our other components of this project, namely the completion of the historic context statement for the entire shipyard. as well as the survey that we prepared for the shipyard as well. Um, And the last time I was here, I gave you a fairly detailed history of Marinship, its commission, and its operations. In the interest of saving time and avoiding repetition, I will spare you most of that talk, and instead talk about other aspects of the yard's history, in particular the role of labor women and minorities in the operation of the yard as well as the transportation and housing of shipyard workers. But first I want to give you a brief recap of the yard's construction operation in case we don't remember. As you know, in March 1942, the U.S. Maritime Commission asked the W.A. Bechtel company to build an emergency shipyard in the San Francisco Bay region. Ground was broken for the 210-acre shipyard on March 28, 1942. and construction of the buildings and shipways was largely complete over the next six months. And I think I showed you this diagram before. It's a plan of the yard that was drawn about 1945. And I added these orange arrows to indicate basically the flow of raw materials into the yard from the northern end at the highway and the railhead and basically how it flowed through the plate shop, the subassembly building to the shipways. And then once the ship was launched, it was towed to the outfitting docks where it was completed. And this was known as a turning flow shipyard, very, very efficient. MarinShip was known by its contemporaries as probably the most rationally planned modern shipyard in the United States. Most traditional shipyards did not have the advantage of being designed and built all at once. And indeed, most shipyards in the Bay Area have been built over the past 50 to 75 years before this. And they adhere to an older craft-based model that was really the antithesis of mass production. At Marinship, mass production was employed to an unprecedented degree, with the yard laid out to eliminate wasted time and effort, and to reduce congestion between various aspects of the yard's operation. The shipways are the most critical part of the process. Due to the extensive use of sub-assemblies, only about 100 parts went into each hull prior to launching when they were on the shipways, reducing the number of days spent by each vessel in the ways to a matter of weeks. |
| 01:28:43.32 | Christopher Verplank | So once the vessel was seaworthy, it was launched in a rapid but very dramatic ceremony and towed to the outfitting docks for final completion. Immediately thereafter, another keel would be laid on the shipway, and the process would repeat itself. This approach is very different from traditional shipbuilding practice, where a ship keel would be typically would be laid and then assembled over a period of months, if not years, in a piece-by-piece operation. By reducing the days the vessel spent in the ways, marineship management removed a major bottleneck in the traditional shipbuilding process. So now I'm going to turn to topics I did not cover in the last presentation, in particular the role of labor, women, and minorities. Marinship was again at the vanguard of this process in its reliance on a non-traditional pool of labor. A major reason for this was that Marinship had gotten to a late start By this time, many of the younger white American men, the traditional labor pool and shipyards, had already been drafted or already working at other shipyards in the Bay Area. Um, So facing a serious labor shortage, marinship had to be very creative, casting a wide net to employ people traditionally excluded from industrial employment, particularly seniors, women, African Americans, and other minority groups. Friendship's strategy for procuring and retaining an adequate workforce centered around the following strategies. first. de-skilling of shipyard work. through the reduction of complicated crafts into simple, repetitive tasks that anyone with a minimum of training could learn within a matter of weeks. Second, establishment of training programs in local business and technical schools, as well as on-site training. Third, recruitment of workers from other states and indeed other countries. And fourth and final, implementation of good salaries, union contracts, and morale-boosting measures to ensure employee retention. Women were one of the biggest and most important sources of non-traditional labor brought to work at Marinship. The advantages of hiring women were often discussed in marinship records. Management found women to be quite good industrial employment, including more common welding and burning tasks, but also much more difficult detail-oriented tasks, such as machining, which you see in the image here. By 1944, women comprised over 20% of MarinShip's workforce and 20% of the machine shop staff Many, let's see here, although most women remain in lower skill job categories, 1,000 became promoted to journeyman status, and 77 were promoted to position of leaderman. And Mirnchorp was the only shipyard in the United States during World War II to promote a woman to the position of yard foreman. Grinchip also employed large numbers of African American workers recruited mainly from the Mississippi Delta region. By 1944, they comprised over 10% of marine ships workforce. Many leapt at the opportunity to leave the Jim Crow South behind and take on relatively well-paid shipyard work in California. They arrived in large numbers in a region that before the war had seen very few African-Americans. Many black shipyard workers formed the nucleus of traditionally African American communities throughout the Bay Area, including Richmond, West and East Oakland, Baby Hunters Point, and Marin City. Initially, African American workers had a tough time at marineship, mostly due to discriminatory union membership policies. motivated by the concept of double victory, and that's victory against fascism abroad and victory against racism and segregation at home African American workers established the Committee Against Segregation and Discrimination. Led by Wilder Joseph James, the committee encouraged hundreds to walk off the job. in November 1943 and demonstrate at Gate 3. in an effort to strike down discriminatory hiring practices. Joseph James filed a lawsuit against Marinship on February 17, 1944, and he's at the center. Um, And Judge Butler from Marine Superior Court ruled in favor of James, stating, quote, discriminating against and segregating Negroes into auxiliaries is contrary to public policy of the state of California, end quote. This was a huge victory for the sort of proto-civil rights movement in California and indeed the United States. And it's not very well now, but this happened here. After women and African Americans, the next largest group of minority workers employed at Marinship were Chinese Americans, mostly from Chinatown in San Francisco. several hundred of which worked at Marinship A special edition of the Mariner highlighted the contributions of Chinese workers. Other minorities included a small group of men and women recruited from El Salvador, as well as Mexican American and Native American workers. Many of the Native American workers were Dust Bowl refugees from Oklahoma, many of them Like their Native American counterparts, many of the whites employed at Marinship or dust pill migrants from Oklahoma, Texas, and Arkansas. Like my own ancestors, shipyard work in Long Beach was a welcome refuge from back-breaking and low-paying agricultural labor in the Central Valley. Because Marin County was still mostly rural and had little housing, Many marine ship workers lived in San Francisco where they could take buses or a special ferry. And actually, you can see that. |
| 01:34:13.73 | Christopher Verplank | Because before the war, actually, ferry service had briefly shut down, and also train service was shut down. So Marinship established, they partnered with Greyhounds, with Greyhound bus lines, and established this bus network and this ferry line. Um... So, but a lot of merchant workers also lived in Marin County, where they could find accommodations. Some lived in rental accommodations in Sausalito and as far out as Muir Beach or Woodacre. Others lived in trailer camps, their cars are converted chicken coops. The integration of large numbers of out-of-state workers, including many with very different lifestyles, was not easy. In addition to differences in folkways, Many locals complained about the proliferation of hockey tonks in Sausalito. there was simply just not enough housing for locals and newcomers alike. In response, the National Housing Authority began building war workers' housing on unincorporated land just north of Marinship. And they call this Marin City. The complex housed 6,000 workers in a combination of single-family, multifamily, and dormitory-style housing. |
| 01:35:24.28 | Christopher Verplank | As I mentioned last time, between June 1942 and September 1945, Marineship launched 93 vessels, including 15 Liberty ships, 78 T2 tankers, and oilers, as well as repairing 23 vessels, and they were in the process of building hundreds of barges for the invasion of mainland Japan by the time the Japanese surrendered on September 2, 1945. And although management had hinted to workers throughout the war that the shipyard might remain open after the war, peacetime there wasn't really enough demand for the shipyard, so it closed in 1946. On May 16, 1946, the Maritime Commission conveyed the decommissioned yard to the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, which needed a large base on San Francisco Bay. The Army Corps did not need the entire shipyard, and in 1949 it subdivided the yard and sold off over 56 acres, retaining only 11 acres within the former outfitting zone. including Buildings 15, which was the outfitting shops, Building 29, which is the warehouse, and the machine shop, Building 11. |
| 01:36:37.47 | Christopher Verplank | Gradually over the next few decades, the remaining portions of the yard were converted into various industrial uses, as well as commercial, retail, a public school, a record studio, and now high-end office, park, and restaurant uses. In a report we found that the former Marinship machine shop eligible for listing in the National Register under Criterion A, Events, and Criterion C, Design and Construction, In addition to the machine shop, sections of the shipways and the buildings that remain there may also be eligible for listing in the National Register under criterion A and also criterion D, which is information potential, more archaeological aspect. And the National Register properties are coded in dark blue. I know this is kind of busy, so let me point them out. So that's building 11, the machine shop. and those are the shipways. We also identified four buildings, three on the property and one offsite, that may be individually eligible for listing in the California Register under Criterion 1, Events. And these include the former cafeteria, Building 8, Right there. Building 27, which is the training administration building, which is right there. Building 30, which is the mold loft and office building, which is the really big guy with the busting truss roof. And also the former hiring hall at 200 Caledonia Street, which is the grocery store that just And those we identified for eligibility under criterion one. Finally, although integrity levels are low, we identified a potential California Register slash local historic district in the southern part of the yard. This is identified in green. You can see the boundary. basically right here. The reason we identify this district is the California Register is more lenient in regard to integrity than the National Register. Furthermore, the continuity of World War II buildings and structures is more solid in this part portion of the yard Here also are most of the larger bowstring truss roofed buildings that everybody knows and recognizes. Although most have been reclad, former Marinship buildings like 10, 11, 12, 15, and 29 remain recognizable as former shipyard buildings. The National Park Service has prepared a historic context statement for home-front related properties a couple years ago. And this includes shipyards, defense plants, housing and recreation facilities, and other resources associated with the pre-war and wartime mobilization of workers in the United States. Marinship is associated with three of the four contexts identified within this historic context statement. Most important, it's still there. Most other shipyards of this era were basically, you know, removed. There's very little of this context left. The National Park Service considers properties like Marinship a significant cultural resource worthy of documentation and preservation. Thank you. |
| 01:39:43.52 | Herb Weiner | Okay, do we have any questions from the council? |
| 01:39:47.13 | Jonathan Leone | So, and either one of you can answer this. In terms of the next steps, you've sort of outlined two buildings that are eligible for the National Registry, six buildings, and I'll consider the Ways a site that are eligible for the state. Is that correct, or are you saying the Ways are also eligible for the National Register? |
| 01:40:18.38 | Christopher Verplank | We surveyed everything that we could see from public streets and public ways. We weren't able to access the entire site, but in our opinion, what we could see of the ways themselves, those structures, as well as the two surviving office buildings at the head of the ways, And there could also be other resources, but we weren't able to trespass and really see what was there. |
| 01:40:39.48 | Jonathan Leone | Right, but those could be eligible for the National Registry, the two office buildings and the Waves. |
| 01:40:43.68 | Jonathon Goldman | Exactly. Yeah. |
| 01:40:44.98 | Jonathan Leone | And the next step for the national registry, would it be to go through the state registry first or just go straight? If you're on the national, do you therefore, you know, can you bypass the state process for those particular items? |
| 01:40:58.36 | Christopher Verplank | Yes, if a resource is listed in the National Register, it's automatically listed in the California Register. |
| 01:41:04.06 | Jonathan Leone | And that the next step for those would be to do that path for the National Registry would be what? Beyond, would we have to augment this report with additional research? |
| 01:41:15.88 | Christopher Verplank | Well, for the machine shop, we really have most of it. But the shipways and the office buildings, we need to do more research. Okay. Definitely. |
| 01:41:22.83 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 01:41:23.91 | Christopher Verplank | Thank you. |
| 01:41:23.92 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 01:41:23.94 | Christopher Verplank | Thank you. |
| 01:41:23.96 | Jonathan Leone | And as far as the remaining sites that are eligible for the state registry, whether it's the sort of outline, can you flip back one slide? Thank you. |
| 01:41:32.46 | Heidi Scoble | Mm-hmm. |
| 01:41:35.01 | Jonathan Leone | the green areas. |
| 01:41:36.12 | Heidi Scoble | Mm-hmm. |
| 01:41:38.99 | Jonathan Leone | I'm assuming we would need to do more research and documentation to move the same process forward on the state side. Or do we have enough given the lower hurdle rates to kind of start that process? |
| 01:41:50.82 | Christopher Verplank | I think we really have most of the research that we need. We just need to formulate an ironclad argument that deals with the relatively low level of integrity and just to finesse the California Register criteria that really deal with integrity. |
| 01:41:59.70 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 01:42:05.17 | Jonathan Leone | Right. Okay. |
| 01:42:07.19 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:42:07.93 | Jonathan Leone | Thanks. |
| 01:42:08.61 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. Yes. |
| 01:42:11.55 | Carolyn Ford | Yes. When do we plan to go forward with the two projects for registering them? Or actually three, aren't there? The buildings, the south part, and then the ways? |
| 01:42:27.39 | Heidi | Regarding the machine shop, the Historical Endmarks Board and staff are currently working on that nomination process. Regarding the nomination of the building at the May 3rd, or the nomination, yeah. |
| 01:42:33.97 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 01:42:41.28 | Heidi | the formal, I guess, nomination of the Historic District At the May 3rd meeting, the City Council asked staff to work with Ms. River Plank to put together a proposal, and we're still working on that. and hopefully we'll be moving forward with that. soon. |
| 01:42:56.75 | Jonathan Leone | But you mentioned, and correct me if I'm wrong, that which one of these two processes requires the approval of the property owner? |
| 01:42:58.05 | Heidi | Thank you. |
| 01:43:07.84 | Heidi | At the local nomination level, the property owner does not need to agree to that. But at the state level for both |
| 01:43:10.91 | Jonathan Leone | THE PROPERTY. Right. |
| 01:43:13.04 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. |
| 01:43:17.04 | Heidi | actually at the local level based on our ordinance to create a historic overlay district we'll need at least 51 percent property owner authorization and the same would apply for individually listing the building at the state level as well as for the district and we would need authorization by the owners |
| 01:43:35.67 | Jonathan Leone | And the same is true for the National Registry. |
| 01:43:42.32 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 01:43:44.71 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. Any other questions? At this time here from public comment, Vicki. |
| 01:43:54.95 | Vicki Nichols | Vicki Nichols, 117 Caledonia. I just, I think there might be one other thing that we could do, and that would be the DPR 523 forms that are done, and Christopher or Heidi could speak to this. They can be, I believe, submitted to the state and they receive a status code as to their eligibility. Once they receive that status code, It's some type of protection that you've started the process. So I would suggest if that's, if I'm correct, I think we need to get those questionnaires in. |
| 01:44:25.63 | Jonathan Leone | But Heidi, can you submit those without the proper owner's approval? |
| 01:44:29.92 | Heidi | Yes, we can. And in the staff report, we identified that the consultant will be forwarding those to the state. What that does is the State Historic Preservation Office will do a cursory review. If they agree with the findings, it will automatically be sent over to Sonoma State for their database collection. |
| 01:44:47.20 | Jonathan Leone | So for all the properties that you've outlined here, the machine shop, the shipways, and offices, the cafeteria, which is on our city-owned property, machine shop, shipways, I guess you get the machine shop listed twice. training and admin building, which is I think also on the city prop, on MLK, it was moved to MLK, and the mold loft, the high hall, we can go through the file of DP 523 forms for all these to get them in the queue, so to speak, |
| 01:45:19.08 | Heidi | Yes, we'll be filing all of the buildings, even those that are not eligible as well, just so that the state has a record of it. |
| 01:45:25.32 | Jonathan Leone | Okay. |
| 01:45:25.94 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:45:27.77 | Jonathan Leone | All right. And then obviously from the If the other ones that require property owner approval and district vote, we're going to have a tough time with those that be my guests. So... |
| 01:45:49.25 | Jonathan Leone | Is that, so the need to conduct further historic research on those, we had to sort of weigh the value of that given that you're, so is it better to document the record with more research on the ways the offices, Building 23 and Building 11, to get to that higher level of information that would be required for the National Registry, just to have that in the record somewhere, then case weather is whether a property owner of those eventually gave us permission to do so or agreed to do so or came in with a project to tear those down, it would be better to have all that ready to go at that moment in time. |
| 01:46:31.00 | Heidi | That's correct. The critical path is really getting these PR forms submitted to the state and having them placed in the database. And then as the City Council is aware, the nomination of the marineship has been identified as a priority. And so STAP will be looking into completing that task and that would include, you know, potentially, It would include reaching out to the property owners and identifying what their thoughts are on the nomination process for the district, whether it be local or state. |
| 01:47:01.04 | Jonathan Leone | but the city could proceed with its two home buildings. |
| 01:47:04.26 | Heidi | Yes, and the city can also proceed with the nomination of those buildings that have been identified in the register, both for those that are eligible for the state national registers as well as those that have just been identified as being associated with the event. The city's threshold for nomination is significantly lower than the state and the national levels. So if the city council were to direct staff to do that, we could proceed with the nomination of all 16 buildings. |
| 01:47:04.28 | Jonathan Leone | Yes. |
| 01:47:35.01 | Jonathan Leone | to create an overlay district versus a, historic districts That does not require property owner approval, to my recollection is correct. |
| 01:47:48.42 | Heidi | In the zoning ordinance, it identifies that at least 51% of property owners need to agree to the overlay district. |
| 01:47:57.41 | Herb Weiner | Oh, hello. I didn't see you sneak in. Yeah, I'm making hope that vice mayor... |
| 01:47:58.39 | Linda Pfeifer | I didn't see. |
| 01:47:58.97 | Heidi | Thank you. |
| 01:47:59.03 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah, yeah, I'm making a note of that. |
| 01:48:03.66 | Herb Weiner | The Vice Mayor Kelly came in at 8.45. |
| 01:48:03.73 | Jonathon Goldman | that bite you. |
| 01:48:08.82 | Linda Pfeifer | Okay. |
| 01:48:10.34 | Herb Weiner | Okay, any other questions? |
| 01:48:11.79 | Linda Pfeifer | Mr. Mayor, I have a question. |
| 01:48:13.31 | Herb Weiner | Council member Pfeiffer. |
| 01:48:14.51 | Linda Pfeifer | Thanks. Well, I want to commend staff for a great job on this. And I guess my question is, I know it says no action required and information only, but I know also that your plates are very full and you've got a lot you're juggling right now. But is there anything that city staff can do to up the priority for this and kind of part the waves so you can move forward on all the things that the city council has discussed, the DPR forms for all the 16 buildings, et cetera? |
| 01:48:45.44 | Heidi | That's a constant struggle that we're working with, but we try to balance the current planning applications with those listed on the priority. And our position is to try to balance everything so that we can move in a quick manner to try to address these items. We're constantly working with our community development director to make those happen. Thank you. |
| 01:49:05.73 | Jonathan Leone | Well, some clarification to Adam, whether it's you or Jeremy or Heidi, there's budget for this to use outside resources to not just what we had in the past budget. So where are we on how much money we have to use outside resources to take that off the shoulders of internal staff if there are time constraints on that? |
| 01:49:05.74 | Heidi | about. |
| 01:49:06.11 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 01:49:23.33 | Mike Kelly | out so I'm really |
| 01:49:32.08 | Jeremy Graves | Councilmember Leon, Jeremy Graves, your Community Development Director. With the adoption of the budget late last month, $15,000 was included in that for assistance for a nomination, for proceeding with nominations for the various historical sites in town. That's in addition to other monies which were allocated for the preparation of the historic regulations. |
| 01:49:51.85 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 01:50:00.92 | Jonathan Leone | Do you have any recollection of how far we're into the past allocation that could be carried? Where are we in terms of how much is available to keep rolling with this? |
| 01:50:01.02 | Jeremy Graves | Yeah. |
| 01:50:10.37 | Jeremy Graves | Well, the money that was out there, the money has been that was in the prior year's budget for the preparation of the historic preservation regulations has been encumbered. Okay. And in the new budget, $15,000 was allocated for the nominations for the registers. But that, we were trying to balance that. It could go to a number of projects, Plaza Vena Del Mar, the |
| 01:50:17.63 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 01:50:30.61 | Heidi Scoble | So... |
| 01:50:41.88 | Jeremy Graves | machine shop building or the work we've been discussing tonight. |
| 01:50:46.45 | Heidi Scoble | Okay. |
| 01:50:46.81 | Jeremy Graves | And if we come up short on that, then we'll be coming back and asking for a supplemental allocation. |
| 01:50:46.91 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 01:50:53.66 | Jeremy Graves | Okay, thank you. |
| 01:50:54.32 | Linda Pfeifer | Mr. Mayor, I have a question. |
| 01:50:55.56 | Jeremy Graves | Question? |
| 01:50:56.83 | Linda Pfeifer | To follow up on Councilmember Leon, do we know approximately what percentage of that 15K would be required to submit the DPR? Was it 523 forms for? |
| 01:50:57.00 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 01:51:07.87 | Jeremy Graves | That's included in the project we already have. Oh, okay. Yeah. Those costs are minimal. So, okay. It's mailing postage. Oh, okay. The large cost was the preparation of those forms, and you see those forms, you know, they go on for about 40 pages plus in the appendix of document. This is part of your staff report. Okay. Mr. Rear. I'm sorry. Go ahead. Council Member Floyd. |
| 01:51:08.41 | Mike Kelly | put it in the... |
| 01:51:10.35 | Linda Pfeifer | in the project we already have. |
| 01:51:11.78 | Mike Kelly | Oh, yeah. |
| 01:51:11.97 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:51:11.98 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 01:51:12.03 | Heidi Scoble | Okay. |
| 01:51:12.39 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah. |
| 01:51:12.47 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 01:51:13.13 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:51:13.25 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 01:51:13.33 | Linda Pfeifer | you |
| 01:51:13.50 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. So, okay. Okay. |
| 01:51:17.87 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:51:23.88 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:51:23.90 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. the phone. Thank you. to me. I would just like to thank staff and our consultant for such a wonderful, complete report. And I know that the Historical Society probably has a lot or most of this information, but just in case they don't, could we make sure they get a copy? because this is outstanding on our marine ship. |
| 01:51:51.52 | Jeremy Graves | Yes, we will be publishing a copy and copies we will be, if we haven't already, we're in the process of providing a link on the website to this. We have quite an extensive, we're getting to it, so we have quite an extensive library of resources available on the planning webpage, planning documents on historical documents. background materials and all. So this will be added to that. Thank you. |
| 01:52:12.02 | Chuck Donald | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 01:52:16.02 | Jonathan Leone | So would it be possible for, since the 523 forums are sort of semantics at this point because it sounds like you have all you need to fill those out, to come back with a scope of work to... and an estimate of kind of what that would cost both internal and external resources so we can weigh against our priority calendar as well as the budget to push forward with the six buildings and sites that are eligible for the local and state registry. So we can sort of get our heads around both time, effort, and money that would be required to keep moving these forward. I know the machine shop will be going on its own path. I think that has a separate budget item just for it. But for these other five, is there, could staff, would staff be willing to come back with working with the outside consultant and develop on it? project scope and cost estimate to keep moving. |
| 01:53:17.10 | Jeremy Graves | Certainly at your May meeting you requested staff to work with the consultant to come back with a proposal for that. We haven't initiated that but we're trying to, you know we have several, Heidi's working on several historically oriented projects. The next, the ones in front of this one at this point are the machine shop and then the historic preservation regulations because we will be coming to you at your next meeting with the historic design guidelines. Right. The initiation of your review and hopeful approval of those. So we get the historic design guidelines going and then we want to make sure we tighten up our regulations and then after we have tightened up our regulations then we have the rules of the game, if you will, on how to. |
| 01:53:24.55 | Jonathan Leone | Okay. |
| 01:53:26.61 | Jonathon Goldman | We're trying to get it. |
| 01:54:04.70 | Jeremy Graves | adopt local historic districts. We'll clarify some of those items in that and then we'll have the rules of the game on how we can establish the historic district in the green area. But that doesn't, the city's nomination of its own, of the local sites can proceed under our current rules. Okay. Thank you. But those will do and the HLB is working on that and those do involve hearings by the HLB, hearings by the Planning Commission and ultimately hearings by the City Council where the property owners afforded the opportunity to have input on the designation of their properties as landmark properties. |
| 01:54:27.04 | Jonathon Goldman | THANK YOU. |
| 01:54:43.95 | Jonathan Leone | Right, but so my question would then be given it can only pile so much on one person's back, if it would expedite things to have outside assistance to just pull everything together for just the local part and therefore the state application, since that, from my question earlier, doesn't seem to require a large amount of additional research, just kind of putting things in the right order and getting everything together. That's something maybe we could, whether Heidi only has so much time that we could consider augmenting through outside resources in terms of just preparing. |
| 01:55:26.17 | Jeremy Graves | So are you thinking of the individual sites or the district? Because the HLB is working on the individual sites. And I'm looking to Vicki to verify that as well as Heidi. I'm sorry. Yeah, okay. So the machine shop is our number one priority, since that one's really threatened. |
| 01:55:42.83 | Jonathan Leone | Right, right. But the last thing I would want to have happen with this is that this piece, for lack of attention or money, obviously money and attention are a question, there's only so much to go around, sort of loses momentum and drifts off into, not as of anyone's fault, but if we don't keep the momentum going on these things. So my concern would be if we don't try to keep all of it moving, maybe at different rates of speed, but still moving nonetheless, and that may require additional headcount reallocation of budget and priority calendar priorities or to accommodate that And that may require additional headcount or reallocation of budget and priority calendar priorities in order to accommodate that. So my question for staff would be if staff and the HLB are |
| 01:56:05.32 | Jeremy Graves | We're not. |
| 01:56:14.59 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 01:56:19.14 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 01:56:34.47 | Jonathan Leone | working with the city manager could at least put out, how would we accomplish that to keep these five other properties and sites? outside of the machine shop effort. |
| 01:56:46.35 | Jeremy Graves | What we could come back with is a game plan on the staff's approach on our historic preservation program and I think I'm part of the report possibly and let you know this is how staff is intending to approach this. If the council feels that it should be modified in some way you could give direction accordingly. |
| 01:56:56.77 | Linda Pfeifer | for the rest of the day. |
| 01:56:56.82 | Heidi Scoble | So, |
| 01:56:56.98 | Linda Pfeifer | I mean, I think you can keep it. |
| 01:56:57.97 | Jonathon Goldman | We're like, yeah. |
| 01:57:09.13 | Jonathan Leone | No, I mean, I would go ahead and see you. I would suggest that you look at it as your department only has so much time and resources rather than just the preservation and regulations element and it's not just, let's just look at this size, let's look at this size and reassess all your workloads so we can decide, okay, let's, not the normal stuff, we know we have to do that, the day-to-day processing, but assess whether we can augment the resources to keep this rolling, not just look inside the box, enlarge the box. See what I'm saying? See what I'm saying? |
| 01:57:29.66 | Herb Weiner | Keep the big things you're in mind. |
| 01:57:44.60 | Jeremy Graves | at large. |
| 01:57:48.72 | Jeremy Graves | Staff is very open to enlarging the box. I'm not going to... |
| 01:57:52.29 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 01:57:53.03 | Jeremy Graves | Charlie Francis is not here tonight, so he's sometimes the shrinker. |
| 01:57:57.31 | Jonathan Leone | I know we'll have to consider that, but you don't know what you'll need until you think about what you need. And then you can go back and decide, okay, how do we weigh this? We only have so much of anything to go around. |
| 01:57:58.10 | Herb Weiner | The one that has the money. |
| 01:57:59.31 | Jeremy Graves | But you don't know what you like. |
| 01:58:08.09 | Adam Politzer | We'll be happy to do that. |
| 01:58:09.19 | Jonathan Leone | So that would be my question. |
| 01:58:10.43 | Herb Weiner | you |
| 01:58:10.50 | Adam Politzer | Yes, Adam, it's similar to the discussion on the last item. If the council directs staff to do that, we'd be willing to come back with a cost estimate to have an outside consultant help us with that process. So, again, we'd like to hear. |
| 01:58:10.92 | Herb Weiner | Interesting. |
| 01:58:12.29 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 01:58:25.91 | Adam Politzer | Consents to the Council for that direction. |
| 01:58:28.42 | Jonathan Leone | That makes sense. I'll put the motion forward to ask staff to come back to the Council with a proposal for to continue the effort of documenting and placing on whether the local or state or national registries as appropriate, these six buildings and sites using both internal and external resources I'm not sure. and in the context of its overall workload and budget. |
| 01:59:05.14 | Linda Pfeifer | And I would second that. and add just, if it's okay, an amendment, just time. like a timeline. You know? I think you said budget estimates, but if you didn't... Yeah, that was good to put on. |
| 01:59:20.01 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 01:59:20.03 | Herb Weiner | Yeah, that was good to put on it. the final motion. Second. |
| 01:59:27.23 | Linda Pfeifer | I seconded and I made the amendment and Jonathan has accepted my amendment. |
| 01:59:31.47 | Herb Weiner | Ready? |
| 01:59:37.31 | Debbie | Council member Pfeiffer. |
| 01:59:38.77 | Jonathan Leone | Yes. |
| 01:59:40.34 | Debbie | Councilmember Leon. |
| 01:59:42.23 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 01:59:42.25 | Jeremy Graves | Yes. |
| 01:59:43.36 | Debbie | Councilmember Ford? Yes. Vice Mayor Kelly? Yes. you |
| 01:59:46.57 | Jeremy Graves | Yes. |
| 01:59:49.46 | Debbie | And Mayor Weiner. |
| 01:59:50.35 | Herb Weiner | Yes. Okay. |
| 01:59:52.53 | Debbie | Okay, thanks for... |
| 01:59:54.53 | Herb Weiner | Thank you very much, Jeremy, Heidi, and the consultant for a great history lesson. Good job, consultant, too. Really remember that one. |
| 01:59:57.51 | Debbie | Thank you. |
| 01:59:57.54 | Linda Pfeifer | Eric, give a shout. |
| 01:59:58.70 | Debbie | Yeah. |
| 01:59:59.78 | Linda Pfeifer | Good job, consultant, too. Really good. |
| 02:00:02.55 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you very much. |
| 02:00:03.23 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 02:00:03.60 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 02:00:03.61 | Herb Weiner | OK. |
| 02:00:03.65 | Linda Pfeifer | I learned something new. |
| 02:00:06.13 | Herb Weiner | Updating on the zoning ordinance amendments, Mary. |
| 02:00:09.18 | Jonathan Leone | Before we move on to the next thing, it may be helpful to forward this to Jonathan and the community service district in Jonathan Logan so that they're aware that especially Thank you. |
| 02:00:21.62 | Herb Weiner | the history there. |
| 02:00:21.67 | Jonathan Leone | Yeah. Obviously they're aware, but they're aware that we're doing this, and if they want to play a part in the application process, that would be helpful too. |
| 02:00:22.61 | Herb Weiner | Hill. |
| 02:00:25.94 | Herb Weiner | Okay. |
| 02:00:31.56 | Herb Weiner | Okay. No, no, I'm going to sneak you in. Thank you. |
| 02:00:35.85 | Mary Wagner | . Thank you, Mr. Mayor, members of the council. So the item before you for consideration right now, our proposed modifications to the zoning ordinance. Oh, man. Hold on. |
| 02:00:54.49 | Mary Wagner | So the zoning ordinance is set forth in Chapter 10. of your municipal code. It was adopted in 2003. And one of the council's priority items, although it squeaked just below the line, is an update of the city's municipal code. This is an item that was budgeted from your prior year, and that budget has been carried forward to update the entire code. As part of that, staff has been going through a compilation of proposed changes that have been compiled since the zoning ordinance was adopted in 2003. These include staff issues that have been raised as well as issues that have come from the public. |
| 02:01:41.10 | Mary Wagner | So I've broken this down into three segments in your staff report. One is Entachment A or Entachment Number One and they are amendments that we're proposing go to the Planning Commission for their consideration and then recommendation to the City Council. The second bucket, if you will, our amendments that we're proposing need additional review whether that be additional information from staff and or additional information or input from a subcommittee such as the legislative committee and then we included a list of some other zoning ordinance amendments that are either in progress or that we believe will be coming forward on a separate track in the future So the first bucket is this attachment number one which includes I think it's 49 items that staff has been reviewing for taken to the Planning Commission. These were considered relatively routine, less controversial, They include things such as cleanup of definitions. For example, sometimes the zoning ordinance refers to the planning director when in fact it should be referring to the community development director. Some of them are typos. Some of them are clarification for things such as how do you measure floor area for stairs. I'm happy to have included in your proposal all the items if you want me to walk through them or we can come back and just address them if you have specific questions. Staff is not proposing that we go into an in-depth discussion of these right now. What we are asking the council to do is direct us to bring these to Planning Commission for their review and input and then recommendation to the council. So there will be a number of public hearings. on these items, but we wanted to give you an idea of what's coming. So there's these 49 items. Then the second bucket is items that staff is proposing for further consideration. Again, some of these just need more input from staff. Some of them are viewed as more controversial and really should get input either from a subcommittee or that we know are going to take more time at the Planning Commission or that we anticipate are going to take more time at the Planning Commission because of public review. We'd like to get some of the other issues taken care of just to clean up the zoning ordinance and to have that done. in connection with getting the Muni code updated and the updated version online so people have that. resource available both staff and the public Finally, there's this bucket of other zoning ordinance modifications that are moving forward on a different track. The first being the restrictions that are applicable to single-family homes and multi-family zoning districts. This is currently under review by a subcommittee of the Planning Commission, and if I remember correctly this is actually an issue that the Planning Commission had asked the Council to put on the priority calendar. It's something that they've been concerned with for a long time. They got a lot of input from interested members of the public. at the Planning Commission hearing then directed the subcommittee which is comprised of planning commissioners and interested members of the public and that's moving forward. I believe there's another committee meeting scheduled for July and then that will then continue back to the Planning Commission for their recommendation and up to Council The other is an issue that you will recall in dealing with the nonconformity regulations, and as directed by the council, staff will work with the legislative committee to work on proposed modifications to chapter 10.62 of the zoning ordinance which include those non-conformity regulations We actually anticipate that this won't be coming forward until the staff input and the majority of the work is completed on the first issue, which is the single-family modifications in multifamily zoning districts. Then you have the historic regulations, and you may recall that an RFP had been issued looking for an outside consultant to assist the city in the development of updated regulations. So while you have the guidelines that are processing, staff had also recommended that the zoning ordinance regulations and the Municode regulations be updated as well. So that's on its own track. And then finally, as you discussed earlier this evening, are the second unit regulations. The staff is anticipating that the second unit regulations will be undertaken following certification of the housing elements. So staff is asking the Council to review the proposed modifications to the zoning ordinance and direct us to Bring the items and attachment number one to the planning commission for their consideration and recommendation to the council. And then two, we'll continue to review and develop the items at the staff level in attachment number two, and if appropriate, bring them to the legislative committee for review and input. And then the next steps would be the planning commission would hold a public hearing on the items in attachment A. and return with a recommendation for the city council. would then hold a public hearing on those modifications. We need at least two City Council meetings because they are an ordinance adoption. and then the changes to the zoning ordinance would be effective 30 days after that adoption. With that, I'm of course happy to answer any questions. The Community Development Director is also here. very closely together with planning staff to go through these pretty meticulously and determine you know things that have been compiled from 2003 some of which are handwritten notes on a zoning ordinance some of which are a little more um, a little more developed. but in some instances we have to kind of figure out what the question really even was. So in any event, there's been a lot of work that's gone into this. I'm excited that we're bringing this forward. It's been a long time coming. And we're happy to answer any questions. |
| 02:07:29.32 | Herb Weiner | Any questions? |
| 02:07:32.05 | Adam Politzer | Uh. |
| 02:07:34.14 | Jonathan Leone | I would just amend your proposal such that for both attachments, perhaps you go through the legislative committee. Break them into two pieces. The other ones that are more controversial and the ones that staffs that are less. |
| 02:07:40.59 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 02:07:51.15 | Mary Wagner | Can we get a meeting on your calendar tonight then? |
| 02:07:51.19 | Jonathan Leone | Can we get a meeting? Yes, I'll put a meeting on the calendar so we can assess the 49 that you've proposed and then just send them on their way with the proposed modification and then let the planning commission debate those. I'd be willing to participate in that process in a shorter period of time. |
| 02:08:13.09 | Mary Wagner | Yeah, absolutely. If that's the direction of the council, we'd be happy to do that. It would be great to get that on the calendar and shoot for trying to get this to the planning commission in September if we can. |
| 02:08:24.46 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 02:08:24.50 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. Any other questions? I have one, Mr. Mayor. |
| 02:08:28.92 | Carolyn Ford | I have one, Mr. Mayor. Council member Ford. During some of our meetings, actually, we had some people here regarding smoking, and I was wondering if we shouldn't, if it's not time to address that, because we haven't looked at it in a long time. So that's one. And a second item that we might want to consider is the recommendation from the sustainability committee regarding leaf blowers. |
| 02:09:04.09 | Jonathan Leone | Those wouldn't be going in the zoning ordinance. Those would be in the municipal code, both of those items. Both of them would be instead of the zoning? |
| 02:09:09.34 | Carolyn Ford | Both of them would be instead of disowning? Thank you. |
| 02:09:12.73 | Jonathan Leone | Okay. |
| 02:09:13.54 | Carolyn Ford | Is that correct? Yes. Okay. I think that's accurate. |
| 02:09:16.42 | Jonathan Leone | I think that's accurate. Thank you. But you're right. And both of those were on the priority calendar debate, the leaf blowers and the smoking thing. And I don't know where they ended up. I don't know if they made it above the line. They didn't. |
| 02:09:28.02 | Herb Weiner | I don't know. |
| 02:09:30.77 | Mary Wagner | They didn't make it above the line and I was saying I'm not even sure that they made the final list that the council put them back on. I remember that they were on there. |
| 02:09:37.08 | Jonathan Leone | that the council put on. You put them back on. I remember that they were on there. Well, and |
| 02:09:46.83 | Mary Wagner | Well, and just for clarification, too, the Smoky Ordinance is going to take a lot of time, and I know that the city of Belmont... went through a very lengthy proceeding on that. That's not to say you shouldn't undertake it, but you should be prepared that it's going to take a significant amount of staff time. |
| 02:10:00.70 | Carolyn Ford | Okay. Regarding Mr. Mayor, Regarding the leaf blowers, though, that came from one of our city committees, and I think the Council... |
| 02:10:08.48 | Herb Weiner | The Sustainability Committee. |
| 02:10:09.93 | Carolyn Ford | Yeah, the sustainability committee and I think that our council should at least look at that and decide what to do with it and we really haven't done that. how big of a job is it? |
| 02:10:23.72 | Mary Wagner | Um, I don't know how much time that one would take. I think that if I remember correctly, The The approach was that the committee was actually going to come to the council and give you an update on where they were and ask that you direct staff to look at that, but I'm not sure. |
| 02:10:41.29 | Herb Weiner | Yeah, point of view, this is probably for a few |
| 02:10:43.97 | Jonathan Leone | which agenda would be, et cetera. |
| 02:10:45.79 | Herb Weiner | OK. |
| 02:10:45.81 | Mary Wagner | Okay. |
| 02:10:46.82 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 02:10:46.84 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 02:10:46.87 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 02:10:46.97 | Carolyn Ford | THE FAMILY. |
| 02:10:47.16 | Herb Weiner | All right. Any other questions up here? Public comment? Michael? |
| 02:10:56.96 | Michael Rex | Michael Rex, local architect. Hey, we're finally getting there. When this Zoning, current zoning ordinance was written in 2003. Drummond Buckley, our then head of the planning department, was putting it together and he was leaving. And so, and people were kind of worn out after years of hearings and it was time just to get it done. We kind of knew it was being. pulled together at the end and hey, In fact, the Planning Commission, when they adopted it, said we're going to review this in six months because it's going to need some housekeeping. So that was eight years ago. If you saw my copy, it's so heavily annotated with what the hell does this mean? And, you know, we found so many errors and discrepancies, it's very difficult for somebody to pick up and use. So this is really needed, and thanks for doing it. I want to, just a couple comments. I hope, I'd like to participate in these discussions, so I'd like to be noticed on meetings associated with this effort. And also, I hope that the members of the public, like myself, can point out some items that might need some attention that perhaps didn't make it on this list. In other words, I hope that, in fact, maybe you could provide some direction that the Planning Commission or Legislative Committee will not be limited to only the items on this list, okay? Because there might be some critical things that need discussions that are missing. And so thanks for that. Yeah. |
| 02:12:36.90 | Herb Weiner | So noted. Thanks, Mike. Any other comments from the public? Okay, let's bring it back up here. Council Member Leone. |
| 02:12:44.19 | Jonathan Leone | One thing that we did in this process before in 2001 through 2003 or whatever was ask local is go through the – I think we should do it differently this time, but we asked local architects for feedback and builders as well. And I think we should do the same thing. But I would just go back. I don't know how hard this is, Jeremy. to just see your list of applicants professional firms that have been just, you know, if you have email contacts because we don't have the budget to send out a mailing. um, obviously it's staff time, but you know, solicit, maybe they have similar comments that they, you know, oh, I remember in 2005 I was in here for this and that drove me crazy. I didn't understand how the wording was. So to solicit some feedback from folks. If it's too much of an effort to go through, I don't know how the records for applications are kept, but if you have a list of architectural or |
| 02:13:47.59 | Jeremy Graves | We maintain a list of local architects that we've been used for notifying notification on such things as we can use on this. |
| 02:13:50.73 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, but even firms that aren't in the five mile radius that have submitted applications to get their feedback, that would be a more monumental task to dig those out. Yes, it would be. Yeah, I think there's about. People who have applied. |
| 02:14:06.00 | Jeremy Graves | Yes, it would be. I think there's about 15 firms that are frequent customers that we notify. And they work with us frequently, and they're a good indication of bringing concerns such as Michael Rex's firm. |
| 02:14:19.36 | Jonathan Leone | Okay. Thank you. And then we could get those at the staff and legislative committee level. That's what we sort of. |
| 02:14:26.53 | Herb Weiner | So we have a recommended motion. |
| 02:14:31.41 | Jonathan Leone | Oh, so, uh, so... Where's George? |
| 02:14:31.43 | Herb Weiner | Do we need it? |
| 02:14:35.04 | Jonathan Leone | I would direct staff to bring attachments one and two to the legislative committee before going to the planning commission for review and consideration and to ask staff as well to solicit input from I guess you include the community through whatever it is with the current isn't that the name of it? Yeah. As well as by contacting frequent staff members. |
| 02:15:00.27 | Heidi Scoble | That's what I'm saying. |
| 02:15:04.39 | Jonathan Leone | customers of your services for feedback on the zoning ordinance and obtain their comments within a reasonable period of time and then start to incorporate those in this decision making process. I have a second. |
| 02:15:20.01 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. Second. |
| 02:15:22.85 | Linda Pfeifer | Second. |
| 02:15:23.60 | Herb Weiner | Okay, all in favor? Aye. Aye. Opposed? Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mary. At this time here, we're going to take up to a five-minute break. |
| 02:15:26.10 | Linda Pfeifer | I... Thank you. |
| 02:15:29.97 | Chuck Donald | and I'm going to go. |
| 02:15:30.03 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 02:15:30.76 | Chuck Donald | Thank you. |
| 02:15:30.81 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you very much. |
| 02:15:37.51 | Jonathan Leone | But I will say for this, you know, that this didn't make it above the line, right? So this is one of those things where we're going to have to, if this is going to take You need to let us know so we can balance it with other things. |
| 02:15:48.98 | Mary Wagner | It's quasi above the line. Well, it's just below the line. Thank you. But it's within reaching distance of the line. Thank you. |
| 02:16:03.31 | Herb Weiner | Next item is the discussion in direction of Plaza Vina del Mar, Accessibility Improvement Project. |
| 02:16:11.75 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 02:16:13.45 | Herb Weiner | Heidi? Hello. |
| 02:16:24.46 | Heidi | I'll just state this again. The purpose of this agenda item is to provide specific details on the modified no-landing alternatives, as well as to provide some information on Ordinance 794A that was addressed at the last meeting on July 21st. Also, CEQA impacts associated with the modified no-landing alternative. and to introduce a possible phase modified no landing alternative that was identified after the writing of a staff report So at your last meeting on June 21st of this year, the City Council directed staff to come back to the Council with a more detailed plan of what this modified no landing alternative was to be. With the help of our Public Works Department, they prepared a new plan identifying what this modified no landing was. detail would be. Specifically, the project would include the demolition of the existing steps, handrails, and landing, The construction of a new paved apron that would go mostly around the existing fountain. The width of the apron would be 60 inches with the exception of one area that's going to be 36 inches. The purpose of that is to protect a heritage Canary Island palm The color and finish of the paved apron would be differentiated from the concrete that's currently there. That is a recommendation not only by the Page and Turnbull staff report, but also a secretary of the Interior Standard. It basically identifies the difference between what's old and what's new. There would be construction of an at-grade concrete paving between the sidewalk along bridgeway and the fountain. There would be proposed accessibility modifications at the corners of Bridgeway, El Portel, Bridgeway, and Tracy Way. There would be the relocation of an existing electric service irrigation control panel, which is located adjacent to the top of the landing on the right-hand side. And the last component of this project would include the deactivation of the existing non-accessible drinking fountain. regarding Ordinance 794A. Our esteemed city attorney has looked into this item and basically what Ordinance 794A was, was an initiative adopted by the voters of the people on April 11th of 1972. The voters approved or voted on this initiative as a response to a city council approval of a park plaza plan that was prepared for the city by William Spangle et al. The Park Plaza Plan, the initiative basically stated that the Park Plaza Plan shall not be implemented in whole or in part unless approved by the voters of the people. And therefore, since the ordinance and initiative were specifically related to that Park Plaza Plan, that ordinance does not apply to this project. Regarding CEQA, the Page and Turnbull Staff Report, or Historic Resources Evaluation Report, identified that the modified no-landing alternative would be more consistent with the Secretary of the Interior Standards, and a categorical exemption could be utilized, and therefore this project, as proposed, could be considered to be exempt pursuant to CEQA. At this point in time, I'm going to hand over the discussion on our next topic to our Public Works Director, Jonathan Goldman, to discuss a phased modified no landing alternative for the Council's consideration. |
| 02:20:10.19 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you, Heidi. As Heidi indicated, our original intent and the content of the staff report was to provide details on the modified no landing alternative that had been identified in the past. We prepared cost estimates, and in the course of actually responding to questions from Councilmember Ford this afternoon it became clear that there probably was another logical subalternative, if you will, It's still the modified no landing alternative, but it could conceivably be implemented in phases, and the reason to implement it in phases is to ensure that the What? only what is required is actually constructed. And I have some of those details here and then prepared some additional graphics that aren't in the staff report. Um, Essentially the difference is the phasing, there's a separation between the components of the modified no landing alternative and I've written some about it. I'll try and just point out the highlights. The curb ramps at the corners of Bridgeway and El Portal, Bridgeway and Tracy, and then actually at El Portal and Tracy, have to be modified no matter what. That's part of anything that we would do. We're recommending that the existing electric service and irrigation control panel be relocated no matter what. The deactivation of the non-accessible drinking fountain is also The best way to protect the historic character of that element without modifying it so that it would be accessible. It won't be usable by anybody. The next step here would involve demolition of the existing steps, handrails, and landing, and the short existing asphalt path to the fountain. We would remove and reconstruct, as needed, the underlanding fountain pump and controls involved. and then construct a new at-grade cement paved area including replacement of the asphalt path, and there's a figure in a minute that makes it easier to figure out where all that is, along the lines as were described earlier. This is just for kind of location information. This is the electric and irrigation controls shed that would be replaced. These are the, at least on the bridgeway side, the steps and the landing that would be demolished as part of the project. Here's a plan view of that same information. This entire area would be demolished. And then this is where the existing asphalt path is that, with the landing removed, would then allow anyone, whether they're in a wheelchair or not, to at least reach the fountain. So that would be the proposed first phase of the modified no landing alternative. Phase two, if required, Basically, we would solicit input from the city's ADA consultant on whether or not the path around the fountain is in fact required. by California Building Code or Americans with Disabilities Act. In addition, we would have to get approval from the plaintiff or plaintiff's experts. As you may recall, this project was essentially triggered by a settlement agreement reached in 2006 with a party who wanted access to the fountain. They approved a plan that included the path around the fountain. That's why it has had such a long life in this process. But if it is not required by code and the plaintiff's expert agrees, then there would be no need to construct that Horseshoe-shaped path around the fountain. Under this scenario, the access to the fountain, and the quotes are here because they're language from the settlement agreement. is supplied by the concrete pathway that leads from the landing installed in phase one. area here that I pointed to. Alternatively, if Phase II is required, it would simply be implemented. It's already been designed, it's already been costed, and that additional phase of work would consist of constructing a new at-grade Portland cement concrete walkway. with cross slopes of 2% or less, and color and finish is approved by the Planning Commission and HLB in Phase I. So. you Yes, sir. So this depicts if the plaintiff's experts, if the code requires that this access around the fountain has to be built, this is what would be built in a subsequent phase. This would have already been done. |
| 02:25:41.35 | Jonathon Goldman | And then this kind of generally depicts the area that that 60-inch wide pathway or apron would be constructed if it's required. The next steps that we've identified and that we're seeking Council's direction on this evening We're prepared to prepare the necessary design review permit application materials. Schedule a joint planning commission and HLB public hearing on design review permit for the modified no landing alternative, the ramp alternative, or the phased modified no landing alternative. Decision of the planning commission and HLB is final unless a timely appeal is filed. Any appeal of the Planning Commission and HLB's decision on the design review permit will be heard at a later City Council public hearing. Thank you. So what we are looking for this evening is direct staff to submit the permit application for the modified or phased modified no landing alternative. And then Going along with that would be direction to staff to prepare a notice of exemption pursuant to CEQA. Any questions? Thanks, Mr. Member. |
| 02:26:54.97 | Herb Weiner | Pfeiffer. |
| 02:26:55.36 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. |
| 02:26:55.40 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. So my first question is with respect to the arborist report that we've had done. I know we've had different arborists express concern with respect to the sensitivity of the heritage canary palm trees with respect to this project. Have we had an arborist look at the impact of having the concrete going around and stopping short of the palm tree? I know that we've looked at different other types of paving, but have we also had an arborist look at the impact of concrete? |
| 02:27:43.22 | Jonathon Goldman | The arborist that did the initial work at Gurkha, who's retired from the city, was evaluating a decomposed granite path. His report addresses the issues associated with any construction in the vicinity of the root balls for the Canary Island palms. and what we are proposing for this project in the event that Phase 2 is required is that these paths extend only as close to those trees as the arborist approves. In other words, the engineers, the architects, the contractor do not determine where this path ends, the arborist does. And I've spoken with Mr. Gurka and let him know that that we have modified the material based on the advice of our historic resource consultant, and that we're going to need him to weigh in on precisely how close concrete could go to those talks. |
| 02:28:52.80 | Linda Pfeifer | Is there any reason why we're not moving forward with that arborist report because if the Arborist Report came back and said I know the original arborist report said decompose granite because of the breathing that is allowed with that texture, as opposed to concrete, which is very, you know, you can't have the roots have access to water or the oxygen. |
| 02:29:19.14 | Heidi Scoble | Mm-hmm. |
| 02:29:19.56 | Linda Pfeifer | So is there any reason why we wouldn't go forward now with that arborist assessment? Because in fact, if an arborist came back and said concrete under any circumstances would be detrimental to the health of those heritage palm trees that phase two, the apron would not be something we could consider. |
| 02:29:37.97 | Jonathon Goldman | The answer is yes. We've already, first of all, reviewed this arborist's report, and his conclusion was that anything within 24 inches of the tree would not have any adverse effects, independent of the material. Secondly, I've spoken with the arborist, let him know what we're doing, and don't, in my judgment, think we need to ask Mr. Gurka or anyone else to prepare a report that would delay this process at this point, especially if they're given complete control over the extent of the construction at the time that it's done. |
| 02:30:17.59 | Linda Pfeifer | It just seems to me, well, okay, I'll reserve my comment on that because you've answered my question. |
| 02:30:24.78 | Herb Weiner | Any other questions? Councilmember Leon. |
| 02:30:27.09 | Jonathan Leone | So when would this, you're waiting for someone to complain to do phase two? versus contacting them ahead of time and saying, |
| 02:30:35.58 | Mary Wagner | We would actively contact first the city's ADA consultant and then to the extent required the plaintiff's expert. So we would ask. |
| 02:30:42.06 | Jonathan Leone | So we would ask. meaningful. |
| 02:30:45.94 | Mary Wagner | I need to contact outside counsel who handled the litigation for the city, confirm with them that they believe that that's necessary. I understand the plaintiff unfortunately is deceased. We would need to contact their counsel and get their input on whether or not they need to weigh in on this approach or not. I've been not done that yet because I wanted to have a plan |
| 02:30:55.43 | Jonathon Goldman | It's dead, yeah. Thank you. |
| 02:30:59.04 | Linda Pfeifer | Get down. |
| 02:30:59.68 | Jonathon Goldman | THE END OF |
| 02:31:07.95 | Mary Wagner | to bring them because of the timeline that's been involved and the where we are in the process and where we were supposed to be in the process. So that's what we would do. We would contact first the city's expert outside counsel who handled the litigation for the city, ask them to contact the plaintiff's lawyer and proceed from there. If they say they don't need to have any input, then we would be through with them. |
| 02:31:30.80 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. But then you would do that before anything takes place. |
| 02:31:34.19 | Mary Wagner | Well, we'd ask you for direction to do that concurrently with having the Planning Commission review both phases of the plan. so that to the extent it is required to be implemented, we would have the requisite approvals in place. |
| 02:31:47.77 | Herb Weiner | Vice Mayor Kelly. |
| 02:31:48.70 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. Is there any question in your mind that if we did phase one and two, the whole thing at that the solution around the fountain would not satisfy the mandate of the lawsuit in its broadest interpretation. |
| 02:32:11.99 | Mary Wagner | If I can rephrase the question, would implementation of both phases satisfy the settlement agreement? Correct. And accessibility to the part? And its broadest interpretation. I believe so, yes. |
| 02:32:14.62 | Mike Kelly | with implementation. Correct. And it's brought... |
| 02:32:20.04 | Herb Weiner | interpretation. Okay, then, yeah. from that answer is that. Mr. Mayor, I thank you. |
| 02:32:26.79 | Linda Pfeifer | Mr. Mayor, I have a question. |
| 02:32:27.82 | Herb Weiner | Council Member Pfeiffer. |
| 02:32:29.86 | Linda Pfeifer | So I have this letter, I think the council got it late, from our local historian, Seth Hodgson. And he raises an interesting point. He said he spoke with the State Office of Historic Preservation regarding Viña Del Mar and that in those conversations... |
| 02:32:51.51 | Herb Weiner | You just need a question. Yeah. |
| 02:32:52.54 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah, so the bandstand is indeed part of the certification And so I guess my question is, have you talked with the the State Office of Historic Preservation with regards to the bandstand being part of the certification or not. |
| 02:33:09.02 | Heidi | Staff has not spoken with the State Office of Historic Preservation However, the report that Paige and Turnbull prepared identified that And the. project, the modified no landing alternative would not have an impact on that state standing as a point of historical interest based on the fact that when the original certification or status was identified in 1976. The bandstand or that landing was the original landing. However, in the late 70s, the landing was modified and therefore took away its historical integrity. So what Page and Turnbull did was they updated the DPR 523 form, which is going to be submitted to the state, and they will be identifying that new information. |
| 02:33:58.82 | Linda Pfeifer | So as a follow-up question on that, you said it because of the upgrade in the 70s, it took away its historical integrity, but isn't that something that the State Department would ascertain because isn't it true that there are two ways to look at this. One is the fact that there is a raised platform irrespective of how it's been changed that there is a raised part and that was part of the state. |
| 02:34:27.97 | Heidi | the design? So based on the DPR 523 form that Paige and Turnbull identified, What they noted were those items associated with the plaza that were historically significant. And they identified what's most important would be the spatial relationship between where the elephants are as it relates to the fountain. It'd be great if that original bandstand or landing were still there, but it's no longer there. However, what Page and Turnbull identified is that the removal of the landing, which no longer has any historic integrity, would still be able to not impact the spatial relationship |
| 02:35:04.50 | Linda Pfeifer | Okay, so I understand what you're saying about the spatial relationship, but would you agree that it is still up to the state to determine whether or not the bandstand is of historical, has that historical integrity or not? |
| 02:35:14.71 | Heidi | Yes. Yes, similar to our discussion regarding the Marinship Inventory, the DPR 523 forms will be submitted to the state. They'll review it. If there's an issue associated with the forms, they'll bring it to our attention. However, Paige and Turnbull did an outstanding job identifying the character defining features of what's important about that site. And so based on Page and Turnbull's recommendation that the modified no landing would not create an impact to the point of historical interest, staff would agree with that. |
| 02:35:49.88 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah, okay. And my last question is I note that in Mr. Hodgson's letter, he identifies four omissions and what he refers to as six errors in the Page and Turnbull historical evaluation. And I was wondering if you could take a look at that later and kind of reconcile |
| 02:36:11.04 | Heidi | Yes. We definitely will take a look at it. |
| 02:36:14.50 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. Thanks. |
| 02:36:15.71 | Heidi | Thank you. |
| 02:36:17.11 | Herb Weiner | Any other questions from here? comments from the public? Chuck? |
| 02:36:24.27 | Heidi Scoble | you |
| 02:36:27.66 | Chuck Donald | Thank you. Chuck Donald. Uh... The question I'm going to raise is minor compared to the ones you were doing a little earlier in this meeting. But I bring it up anyhow. In Jonathan's presentation, He had a line there that said, Electrical control or something, I forget. how he worded it. I want to raise the flag, put a light on that, That's maybe more important than just controlling the irrigation system. when PG&E put their big underground line down the Bridgeway, I tried to get them to tie into the underground service that serves the downtown area. I was unsuccessful. That box does more than just control the irrigation system. It provides underground service to some of the buildings in that area. The evidence for that is a fellow that I won't name him by name because I don't respect him very highly, but he was in charge of putting up the Lights on the Christmas trees in the park, or the lights on the park, lights on the trees in the park at Christmas Day. And he didn't bother to... you can hire an electrician, he opened that cabinet, that electrical cabinet, and made the connections himself, during the daytime. When they turned the trees on at night, all the buildings on the west side of Bridgeway went dark. and they were out for two days while PG&A came and put in a different transformer. So where's your Christmas spirit? Go ahead. Well, anyway, what I'm saying is that When we change out that electrical system, We should see that it's done correctly. as much as I hate to admit it, get PG&E into the act. so that it's done right for whatever the underground system is there. It's more than just a control system for irrigation systems. Thank you. |
| 02:38:20.49 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 02:38:20.79 | Chuck Donald | Okay. |
| 02:38:20.98 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. Any other? Michael? |
| 02:38:28.81 | Michael Rex | I'm glad we're moving forward with this and with a no landing alternative I think it's best solution for ADA access with the least impact on the park. and Thank you. I wanted to ask, besides this new five-foot path around the fountain, there's also an existing paved portion, right? It was a couple feet wide. And I remember during the previous public hearings on this. You got the two feet plus another five feet because of the palm tree. If you're coming around a wheelchair and you get to a dead end, you can't squeeze around the palm tree on the crushed granite. You have to have enough room to turn around. and go back because you can't go all the way around. At least this was my understanding. We end up with like a seven foot wide path all around this fountain. Two feet is certainly not wide enough for a wheelchair, but do we need seven? Four feet. My understanding, the code is 48 is standard. That's right. Right? |
| 02:39:22.37 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. My, |
| 02:39:23.03 | Herb Weiner | Well, yeah. |
| 02:39:23.63 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. |
| 02:39:25.47 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 02:39:25.49 | Heidi Scoble | That's right. |
| 02:39:27.40 | Michael Rex | I was told anyway by the architect at the time that We had to have it really wide so you can turn around, because it didn't go all the way around. And we end up with a lot of pavement and less grass, and that's unfortunate. So maybe this phased approach is the way to do it. But another option is to move palm trees. I mean, maybe that sounds crazy, but palm trees have a very small root base, and they're moved all the time. There's companies that specialize in moving palm trees. They'll probably even guarantee its health. I mean, I don't know that. That's not a crazy idea. And if it would end up with an ADA compliant pathway that's narrower and we have more grass, and we don't have to worry about killing a palm because we promote itself by moving it, maybe it would be worth at least asking that question of the arborist. The other thing I want to mention, and that's the last thing, is during the, there were a couple public workshops and hearings on this, and during those hearings or discussions, there was public input about the design of, The curb cuts at the other corners of the Vena Domar. the south end and the north. I recall I didn't see them up here tonight so I don't know if they've been modified from what was previously proposed but they were not what as good as they could be and they need more work. I don't know what the status of those designs are. If they remain what we saw before, they haven't incorporated the input from the public. So if you can inquire about that, that would be helpful. That's all I had. Thanks a lot. |
| 02:41:07.72 | Herb Weiner | Okay, thank you, Michael. Vicky? |
| 02:41:15.63 | Vicki Nichols | I would just like to quickly say with all due respect to Seth, who I respect for his |
| 02:41:16.61 | Herb Weiner | just like, |
| 02:41:22.69 | Vicki Nichols | history and everything that I'm going to further endorse Paige and Turnbull's report. I think that when these things are done, you have to edit down all these facts. And the fact that they took the highest ranking of importance of Mayor Jacques Thomas I think is significant so While I appreciate his letter, I think all these things have really been covered. And the other thing on a lighter note is, I'm sure you all know this, but next Thursday, Is it next Thursday, the 21st? At 11 a.m., the mayor of Vianna Del Marcelli will be in the park, so. |
| 02:41:59.96 | Herb Weiner | March early will be |
| 02:42:04.00 | Herb Weiner | Thank you, Ricky. |
| 02:42:04.94 | Jonathan Leone | You have to dance. Yeah. Not me. |
| 02:42:08.28 | Herb Weiner | No, he's going to give a song. You're going to give a dance. |
| 02:42:08.74 | Jonathan Leone | No. I can't smart. |
| 02:42:12.59 | Herb Weiner | I don't know. |
| 02:42:13.45 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 02:42:13.46 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. I am just, I'm sorry, go ahead. |
| 02:42:15.54 | Jonathan Leone | I'm sorry, go ahead. John, did you answer some of Michael's questions about the 50 inches, is that in addition to the, looks like at least two feet of existing concrete that's there? |
| 02:42:22.81 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 02:42:22.83 | Jonathon Goldman | is that. |
| 02:42:31.20 | Jonathon Goldman | Yes, it's actually addressed in the staff report. It is certainly correct that there is an existing apron, if you will, around the fountain. That apron, although it is essentially more horizontal than anything else, does not comply with the California Building Code requirement for cross slope. It exceeds 2%. And in order to comply with the code, assuming that this pathway is required, you we have to have a minimum of 48 inches, are suggestion, if you will, is that rather than accommodating periodic bulb outs for an individual who wants to be able to turn around in a wheelchair, which requires 60 inches, that the path would simply be 60 inches wide. |
| 02:43:28.15 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 02:43:29.20 | Jonathon Goldman | Um, I'm tempted to respond to some of his other questions, but you didn't ask me to. |
| 02:43:36.64 | Linda Pfeifer | I don't remember what they were, but I don't. |
| 02:43:40.03 | Jonathan Leone | Go ahead, have a question. But if you remember... |
| 02:43:44.18 | Herb Weiner | Moving the tree. |
| 02:43:44.44 | Jonathan Leone | movement |
| 02:43:48.50 | Jonathon Goldman | It is absolutely true that we have not for one moment considered moving the public. Well, it is, however, not true that we have not considered the public input that was derived during the process. And unfortunately, that issue keeps coming up and I don't really appreciate it. |
| 02:43:56.20 | Linda Pfeifer | Well, it is, however... |
| 02:44:05.43 | Adam Politzer | Yeah. |
| 02:44:13.65 | Mike Kelly | Moving on. |
| 02:44:13.92 | Herb Weiner | Okay. Yeah, just for some knowledge. By the way, how old are those trees there? The Canary Island palms, do we know? |
| 02:44:24.65 | Jonathan Leone | Yeah, they're in the Phajan Turnbull thing when they were planted. Heidi, do you remember when those palm trees were planted? |
| 02:44:28.78 | Herb Weiner | Because their life expenses... Somewhere between 100 and 125 years. And those canary palms go down approximately three feet. And they couldn't go down much more because you're going to hit salt water anywhere there. |
| 02:44:31.50 | Jonathan Leone | Wow. |
| 02:44:41.90 | Heidi | Yeah, so as soon as the pond was filled, those palm trees came in. 1903 is coming to mind, but I'd have to go to my report to verify, but they were definitely there no later than 1912. |
| 02:44:51.38 | Jonathan Leone | Terrified. |
| 02:44:55.83 | Jonathan Leone | And were those, just to refresh my memory, were those called out as part of the, they the significant foliage that was planted at the time. |
| 02:45:04.56 | Herb Weiner | to. |
| 02:45:04.59 | Jonathon Goldman | that was. |
| 02:45:06.08 | Heidi | Yes. |
| 02:45:06.48 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. |
| 02:45:06.77 | Jonathan Leone | you Yeah. |
| 02:45:07.14 | Herb Weiner | Yeah, so their life expectancy. |
| 02:45:08.59 | Jonathan Leone | So their location is almost as, it's just as important as them themselves. They can't just move it over here and maintain that spatial, that Thank you. |
| 02:45:17.69 | Heidi | That's correct, and that was identified in the Page and Trimble report. |
| 02:45:17.72 | Jonathan Leone | That's right. |
| 02:45:21.28 | Herb Weiner | because they last between 100 and 125 years. I spoke to someone today that deals with that. Okay? |
| 02:45:30.65 | Linda Pfeifer | Okay? you |
| 02:45:31.29 | Herb Weiner | Did Jonathan address? Just so you know, I mean... |
| 02:45:31.54 | Linda Pfeifer | Good. |
| 02:45:32.08 | Mike Kelly | Would Jonathan address Could Jonathan address the issue of the transformer, supposed transformer? |
| 02:45:39.35 | Linda Pfeifer | There are Transformers? Thank you. |
| 02:45:41.43 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 02:45:41.45 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 02:45:41.48 | Herb Weiner | the electrical. |
| 02:45:42.21 | Linda Pfeifer | I thought that was a vegetable. |
| 02:45:43.67 | Jonathan Leone | Yeah. . Yeah. I was certain. |
| 02:45:51.03 | Herb Weiner | I thought that was the restaurant. |
| 02:45:52.53 | Jonathon Goldman | certainly I agree with Mr. Donald that I want to ensure that the moment we are fortunate enough to actually construct this project that we absolutely make sure that it is done properly and to code and that when the fountain and lights operate that no one else is forced into darkness or cold or... |
| 02:46:17.90 | Herb Weiner | Yes. |
| 02:46:18.13 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 02:46:18.66 | Herb Weiner | work. Yeah, Chuck failed to tell you that when that happened, his lights went out at his house. |
| 02:46:25.09 | Jonathon Goldman | you I believe without having done an extensive investigation that this structure here has the meter pedestal for Plaza Viña del Mar and irrigation controls. Mr. Donald may be correct that there are any number of other things plugged into it that will be investigated as part of the project and we'll make sure that it's done properly. |
| 02:46:40.31 | Christopher Verplank | or any noise? |
| 02:46:45.93 | Jonathan Leone | I did it. |
| 02:46:51.88 | Jonathan Leone | So just one clarification, please. |
| 02:46:53.18 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. |
| 02:46:55.12 | Jonathan Leone | is the um the idea to go through to take you know what you divided into phase one and two as as a plan through the planning commission process to get that approval and then go to |
| 02:46:57.07 | Jonathon Goldman | the idea |
| 02:47:09.97 | Jonathan Leone | and contact your city's ADA consultant as well as the attorney for the plaintiff, if their attorney is even still in existence, to see if we're in compliance with the settlement agreement. Is that the right process order? |
| 02:47:25.63 | Heidi Scoble | Order. |
| 02:47:25.90 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. Certainly I wouldn't necessarily do that linearly. I think that there's the opportunity if council expresses this evening its preference for a project the opportunity for us in parallel to go through the notice of exemption process you know give the state historic preservation officer the opportunity to review these issues and weigh in and at the same time contact the state. |
| 02:47:27.37 | Jonathan Leone | I'm not sure. . |
| 02:47:56.23 | Jonathon Goldman | plaintiff's attorney as well as our experts that hasn't heard from us for two years because we've been busy on this, make sure that we know what is required and what is acceptable. And then put the matter to rest as quickly as possible. |
| 02:48:13.80 | Carolyn Ford | Mr. Mayor, one more question. Do we know how much the cost would be reduced if we didn't have to do phase two? |
| 02:48:15.35 | Jonathon Goldman | What's the matter? |
| 02:48:26.20 | Jonathon Goldman | You'll have to forgive me for not having anticipated that. As you may recall from the previous staff report, I think the difference between the |
| 02:48:29.84 | Carolyn Ford | No, it's... |
| 02:48:39.61 | Jonathon Goldman | I think it's a very good thing. That's not necessarily apples to apples. Some of the items that I identified as common items in that cost estimate |
| 02:48:48.64 | Heidi Scoble | Uh-huh. |
| 02:48:48.69 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. aren't really common in the phases. So I think it is safe to say that there would be a reduction if phase two is not required and I would have to go back to the estimate and subtract square footages. It's just square footage of the concrete. |
| 02:48:59.49 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:48:59.58 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 02:48:59.63 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:49:05.79 | Mike Kelly | Okay. All right. Thank you. The counter to that is that there would also likely be, you can tell me if I'm correct or incorrect, like increased cost to do it in two phases as opposed to do it all at one time. |
| 02:49:07.36 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 02:49:18.88 | Jonathon Goldman | I think that's probably true. On the other hand, by doing this in parallel, assuming that HLB and the Planning Commission grant the approval for both phases if they're both necessary, we have the opportunity to construct in one phase if it turns out that that's the requirement. |
| 02:49:35.99 | Mike Kelly | That presupposes you're going to wait to do the work on that until you get the approval. |
| 02:49:36.21 | Jonathon Goldman | That would be supposed to be. |
| 02:49:42.29 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:49:42.31 | Linda Pfeifer | THE FAMILY. |
| 02:49:44.53 | Mike Kelly | I think it's an outlushable at the center. That sounds like, to me, it's a far out assumption because you don't even know what that process is going to be as we speak. |
| 02:49:44.57 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah. |
| 02:49:44.65 | Heidi Scoble | So, |
| 02:49:44.97 | Jonathon Goldman | I think it's an outlushable at the same time. Thank you. |
| 02:49:49.31 | Herb Weiner | I'm not. |
| 02:49:49.48 | Jonathon Goldman | you |
| 02:49:54.34 | Carolyn Ford | Oh, they're going to do it. |
| 02:49:57.00 | Mike Kelly | You got a dead plaintiff. Okay. You got a dead plaintiff. I'm going to dig them up. |
| 02:50:02.00 | Jonathan Leone | I would just put forward that you do that first. Don't start that you talk to the city's ADA consultant and the plaintiff's attorney and go through that first before you do anything, before you bother to go to the planning commission. |
| 02:50:05.34 | Mike Kelly | Sure. |
| 02:50:05.36 | Herb Weiner | Remember Leon? |
| 02:50:19.94 | Carolyn Ford | okay point of order Mr. Mayor have we brought it back up here for discussion because if we have I'd like to suggest there are three minutes for council member |
| 02:50:27.70 | Jonathan Leone | for Councilman. You have three minutes during the rest of it. Three minutes in one. Go ahead. |
| 02:50:29.45 | Carolyn Ford | You have three minutes. |
| 02:50:33.20 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 02:50:33.22 | Mike Kelly | you |
| 02:50:33.27 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 02:50:33.40 | Mike Kelly | Look, we've got an opportunity here to do an elegant solution to this problem. And not only that, it's at a cost that I'm amazed how low it is. It's less than putting one-fourth of a restroom in Um, And, In doing so, we opened this up We would not only comply with the law, with the federal law. and meet the needs of a lawsuit, which is brought against us, which has been lingering for what, 10 years or 5 years or 8 years, 6 years, 7 years, whatever. Close 6. Close 6. So it's been hanging around as an albatross. |
| 02:51:05.06 | Jonathon Goldman | Right. What? |
| 02:51:08.11 | Linda Pfeifer | Coast 6. Coast 6. |
| 02:51:14.31 | Mike Kelly | And we have an elegant solution to fix this. And at the same time, really fix it by making it accessible, the majority of the park accessible to a handicapped person. And I am just, it fries me to think that we are looking at ways to constrict this so that handicapped people can't use it. And that just tears up the fabric of my fairness. So I think that we've got the solution, it's right before us, it's elegant, |
| 02:51:32.50 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. |
| 02:51:42.29 | Mike Kelly | It provides a 60-inch a facility where a wheelchair can turn around and a handicapped person can visit our park and enjoy it the same way as those of us who can walk into it and walk around. And we're not going to harm our palms. We're going to watch that whole thing. We've got a solution for that. There just isn't any impediment other than just frustrating the law and frustrating more staff time spent trying to find a lawyer, trying to figure out whether this saw suit fits, blah, blah, blah, and get somebody to pine on it. And I think at the end of the day, if I were the lawyer on the other side, I'd say the same thing I just said before, which is fix it, fix it right, and make it available on an ADA basis. So that's |
| 02:52:22.99 | Herb Weiner | Okay. |
| 02:52:23.50 | Mike Kelly | Mr. |
| 02:52:23.97 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 02:52:24.44 | Herb Weiner | Council Member Ford. |
| 02:52:26.57 | Carolyn Ford | Well, I would like to thank staff for coming up with a phased approach. I think it's a nice compromise to the situation we find ourselves in. And I don't believe it will slow down the process because staff has already suggested that they would do in parallel the contact with the attorney while forwarding it on to the Planning Commission we have a plan that can be easily split into two phases Thank you. and aesthetically, It is much more pleasing than having a path that goes around as a horseshoe and covers up that extra five feet of grass. We should be trying to keep our downtown green. and not pouring all this concrete. I mean, to take what Council Member Kelly said here a step further, we want our handicapped people to have access to the park, to the fountain, why don't we just pave the whole thing over? That would give them access to everything in the park. I think that we need to protect the park, the greenery, the horticulture that's there. It's beautiful. In fact, it needs to be renovated So let's protect the park, keep the green, and save whatever money we can by not doing phase two if we don't have to. I'm more concerned, however, about the aesthetics than the money at this point. |
| 02:54:13.37 | Herb Weiner | Okay, any other comment? Any other? Well, let's move this forward. Let's move this ahead. We have a recommendation. |
| 02:54:17.60 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 02:54:17.62 | Linda Pfeifer | We'll be right back. |
| 02:54:21.53 | Linda Pfeifer | Mr. Mayor, I have a comment. |
| 02:54:23.51 | Herb Weiner | Go ahead. Thank you. |
| 02:54:24.15 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 02:54:25.82 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 02:54:25.84 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 02:54:25.97 | Linda Pfeifer | I also want to thank staff for all the work they've done on this. I do want to get back, though, to the letter from Seth Hodgson. I do think he raises valid points. I do think his point about the... Let's see, William Faville, for example, the comment from the public regarding the board of, being on the board of advisors for the San Francisco's Panama Pacific International Exposition. the fact that Faville was also the architect of eight out of ten of the palaces of the exposition and other things that are in this letter, I think that they're of weight here. I think it's important. So I know it doesn't refer specifically to the motion before us, but there are elements in his letter that do because they refer to the bandstand. And so I think it's just noteworthy for the record. I'm also, I have grave concerns regarding a five-foot, you know, the wide apron going around with respect to killing the heritage canary palm trees, the danger of the hundred-year-old trees there. I support keeping the green grass as well. It's a jewel, and I fear it's a dying jewel because of all the wear and tear it receives on a daily basis, and I just have grave concerns about that. Thank you. |
| 02:56:03.98 | Mike Kelly | you |
| 02:56:04.03 | Herb Weiner | Well. |
| 02:56:04.54 | Mike Kelly | I'd like to... |
| 02:56:04.81 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 02:56:04.84 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 02:56:06.09 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 02:56:06.11 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:56:06.13 | Herb Weiner | Your advice, my husband. |
| 02:56:07.29 | Mike Kelly | i'd like to make a motion okay i'd like to make a motion to direct staff to submit a design review permit application for the modified no landing alternative and not face the project and move forward |
| 02:56:08.78 | Herb Weiner | Okay. |
| 02:56:19.96 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. Under that scenario. |
| 02:56:22.19 | Herb Weiner | Have a second. |
| 02:56:24.33 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 02:56:24.35 | Mike Kelly | Yeah, I was like, |
| 02:56:25.28 | Herb Weiner | Okay. |
| 02:56:25.45 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:56:25.55 | Carolyn Ford | I have a substitute motion. |
| 02:56:28.62 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 02:56:28.66 | Mike Kelly | How does it work on the roast? I'd like to know how it works on the roast. |
| 02:56:31.76 | Carolyn Ford | I would like to make a motion that |
| 02:56:34.14 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:56:34.16 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 02:56:34.17 | Mike Kelly | I don't know. |
| 02:56:34.61 | Jonathan Leone | clarification of process to the city chair. |
| 02:56:36.45 | Mike Kelly | Yeah, that clarification process was you |
| 02:56:41.23 | Mary Wagner | you |
| 02:56:41.28 | Mike Kelly | Second. |
| 02:56:41.67 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 02:56:41.99 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:56:47.39 | Mary Wagner | I'm looking to make sure I'm remembering correctly that you can have three motions on the floor at the same time you vote on the last motion first. |
| 02:56:48.36 | Heidi Scoble | Why are you doing that? |
| 02:56:52.52 | Linda Pfeifer | Same time. |
| 02:56:55.18 | Herb Weiner | First. |
| 02:56:56.13 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. Right. |
| 02:56:58.46 | Herb Weiner | It's a shame that we are in this position, but don't forget when Reena Del Mara Park was put together, there was no such thing as ADA compliance, and we have to... move with the times when it comes to that. You have a tree right now that's 100 years old, almost 100. Its life expectancy is between 100 and 125 years. but to all of a sudden go from wanting something totally closed I still feel myself that Let's get into compliance and let's do justice to the visitors and people that want to use that area. As far as we're in tier, It's no different than we are. You know, we're wear and tear too. All right? So that's the way that goes. |
| 02:57:54.89 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 02:58:00.40 | Herb Weiner | You ready, Mary? |
| 02:58:01.84 | Mary Wagner | Yeah. So as I said, you can have the basic motion, you can amend, move to amend the motion, or you can move to substitute. |
| 02:58:02.40 | Herb Weiner | As I said, you can have the basics |
| 02:58:09.20 | Mary Wagner | A different motion for the motion that's been made, that receives a second. You can have three motions on the floor at the same time. You vote on the last motion first. I'm the |
| 02:58:18.04 | Carolyn Ford | a substitute motion. |
| 02:58:20.84 | Herb Weiner | okay |
| 02:58:21.58 | Carolyn Ford | I move that we take staff's recommendation to do phases one and two. as presented this evening. A second. |
| 02:58:35.17 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 02:58:35.18 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:58:35.23 | Jonathan Leone | All the questions. |
| 02:58:36.13 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:58:36.16 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 02:58:37.12 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:58:37.14 | Jonathan Leone | Okay? |
| 02:58:37.76 | Mike Kelly | you |
| 02:58:37.82 | Jonathan Leone | Before you call the questions, |
| 02:58:37.92 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 02:58:47.92 | Jonathan Leone | Yeah, it's a somewhat cruel comment to say you should pave the whole park over if you want to give access to disabled people. I think that shows a little bit of callousness in and of itself. But the I think that to grant access to as many people as possible is the whole goal of parks and we're lucky to be able to be granting access to people who have special needs rather than looking at it as an imposition. And there are other people who aren't necessarily handicapped that will benefit from strollers or people who have difficulty walking but can still walk, won't be able to enter the park where they may not have been able to. So. |
| 02:59:40.10 | Carolyn Ford | Mr. Mayor. you |
| 02:59:41.13 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 02:59:41.15 | Jonathan Leone | See you. |
| 02:59:41.42 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. I would like to point out that the person bringing the lawsuit requested access to the fountain, not around the fountain. And secondly, I think the value of having green in the park and lots of green in the park can be appreciated by a lot of people. and think that is something to consider you know we've talked we've seen a plan to pave that park before and so my my comment was not totally facetious that we have seen that comment I hope we don't go there I hope we I hope we keep as much green as we can. And I have every empathy for a handicapped person and want to give them access as well. |
| 03:00:31.86 | Jonathon Goldman | And I'm sure. Amen. |
| 03:00:41.17 | Linda Pfeifer | Mr. Mayor, if I may, make an amendment to the motion. As you phrased it, Council Member Ford, the substitute motion. It was phrased as supporting Phase 1 and Phase 2. And my amendment would be that it is to accept Phase 1 and only proceed with phase two if required. And the other part of the amendment is end with an arborist confirmation that the concrete will not harm the heritage canary palm trees. |
| 03:00:49.56 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 03:00:49.69 | Heidi | Thank you. |
| 03:01:19.66 | Carolyn Ford | Okay, I think we have that assurance from staff, but I accept that clarification. That's what I had in mind, staff's recommendation. |
| 03:01:27.78 | Herb Weiner | that Okay, so let's start with the third one first. Is that how we vote? |
| 03:01:33.43 | Carolyn Ford | Yeah, yeah. |
| 03:01:33.87 | Mary Wagner | Okay. |
| 03:01:33.96 | Carolyn Ford | You'd find it. |
| 03:01:34.19 | Mary Wagner | on the amended motion. |
| 03:01:35.73 | Herb Weiner | Okay. |
| 03:01:36.05 | Linda Pfeifer | OK. |
| 03:01:37.87 | Herb Weiner | Do we have clarity on that amendment? |
| 03:01:39.27 | Linda Pfeifer | You accepted the amendment to the Chair Moshiach. I did. Accept the amended. |
| 03:01:40.12 | Mary Wagner | I did. That's the amended... |
| 03:01:43.10 | Herb Weiner | you Okay. And we have a second, so all in favor? |
| 03:01:49.03 | Carolyn Ford | Aye. |
| 03:01:50.78 | Herb Weiner | Opposed? No. |
| 03:01:51.84 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 03:01:55.81 | Mary Wagner | So for the record, Mr. Mayor, the motion failed by a vote of two to three. Okay. And then you vote on the first motion that was on the floor. |
| 03:01:59.93 | Linda Pfeifer | Okay. And then you. |
| 03:02:00.72 | Linda Pfeifer | that you vote on the first motion that was on the floor. It will be recorded with respect to who voted which way. Yes. Very good. |
| 03:02:07.67 | Mary Wagner | Yes. Very good. Okay. So now you would vote on the first motion that is on the floor. Yes, your second motion was not. It's a substitute motion. The substitute motion was voted on, so now you go to the first motion, which was on the floor, which was Council Member Kelly's motion. |
| 03:02:16.04 | Linda Pfeifer | Yes, your second motion was not. It's the substitute motion. |
| 03:02:19.18 | Jonathon Goldman | I'm sorry. |
| 03:02:19.74 | Linda Pfeifer | All of them. |
| 03:02:24.57 | Linda Pfeifer | I thought we voted on the amendment. Oh, we voted on the substitute vote as amended. The second motion was amended. You voted on the amended. |
| 03:02:27.45 | Mary Wagner | The second motion was amended. You voted on the amended second substitute motion. Now you have the first motion that was made by Council Member Kelly on the floor. We have clarity on the first motion. We understand. |
| 03:02:31.26 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 03:02:31.33 | Linda Pfeifer | Oh shit. |
| 03:02:31.84 | Mike Kelly | you |
| 03:02:37.69 | Herb Weiner | Okay, all in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed? |
| 03:02:40.28 | Mike Kelly | Bye. |
| 03:02:44.16 | Carolyn Ford | No. |
| 03:02:46.39 | Herb Weiner | Okay. |
| 03:02:47.13 | Mary Wagner | So that motion carried three to two and the record will reflect who voted and in what |
| 03:02:52.04 | Herb Weiner | Okay, thank you. Thank you. You can always paint the cement green. Um... |
| 03:02:52.21 | Mary Wagner | Okay. Thank you. |
| 03:02:52.92 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 03:02:53.03 | Debbie | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 03:02:57.52 | Heidi Scoble | Um. |
| 03:02:58.35 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 03:03:00.02 | Debbie | Cheers. |
| 03:03:02.77 | Herb Weiner | Okay. Okay, next. Oh, you might as well stay right up there, Jonathan. Okay, status update on the EPA. Thanks, Sergeant. Thank you. Ordnance order, compliance clean water state revolving loan fund and sewer enterprise operations. Adoption of city of Sausalito sewer lateral low interest loan program. Jonathan? |
| 03:03:12.66 | Jonathan Leone | Thanks, Harry. |
| 03:03:30.16 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I'll try to be brief. The action item that we're asking of counsel this evening has to do with establishing the low interest loan program. I don't want to... Thank you. to completely omit some of what I think are highlights that are worth noting in the record and drawing to your attention and members of the community. Those have to do with our EPA order compliance and also an area that we're all interested in, our status with respect to the Clean Water State Revolving Loan Fund funding for some of our long-awaited sewer infrastructure improvement projects. Since the January 2001 status update, city staff has accepted a new sewer rodder vehicle, which is expected to enter service in August. Just to refresh your memory, we acquired the vehicle without completely fitting it out with toolboxes and tools and some of those things. Council gave us the appropriation and the authorization to have that work done. It is being completed locally rather than Indiana. and we expect it to enter service in August. Um, that vehicle will further benefit the the really significant improvement in the level of maintenance that we've been able to accomplish by virtue of the ratepayers approving the rates that are currently in force and allowing us to hire three full-time sewer maintenance workers. Those employees are now all either at or will very shortly have cleared probation. They are all excellent assets to the community. If you don't know them, I encourage you to get to know them. I know that one of Lauren's first tasks on joining us on Monday is to acquaint himself with those individuals. He is familiarizing himself with their operations and some of the operations expectations and metrics that I've referred to later in the staff report. As time goes on, we will be bringing you much more detailed reports of our maintenance activities, the cleaning frequencies and things like that. Not necessarily because I think you're incredibly interested in them, but I think it is important as police and fire and other departments do to be able to keep track of where we are and establish goals of continuously improving. And so that's an area where I think we have already done very well and as time goes on you will continue to see the benefits of that. |
| 03:05:07.27 | Heidi Scoble | I'm sorry. |
| 03:06:25.76 | Jonathon Goldman | One area where even without the ability to have implemented significant capital improvement programs because of Clean Water State Revolving Fund status, one area where we have seen improvements in the last few years, and I've provided this quarterly summary of sanitary sewer overflows that both public and private, When they occur, we report them. We make every reasonable effort to mitigate to figure out what the cause of the overflow was even on private overflows and take efforts to prevent their recurrence and you know I don't we're only halfway through this year but I think just by inspecting this table, you can see that we have been making progress. We're not to zero overflows, and we have a long way to go before we get there, but I think the attention to detail and the ability of the council to move resources, hire people, and put them to work saying we need to improve the standard of care really shows here. With respect to the Clean Water State Revolving Fund, I could probably talk for an hour about that. The relatively good news is that by virtue of work that the city attorney has done and that council authorized, we are in the last stages of successfully negotiating an easement for short segments of city sewers that lie on property that we didn't necessarily have clear title to, isn't necessarily clearly public right-of-way. The only costs that we have incurred and that I expect we will incur in doing that are the staff time necessary to prepare those documents in part I think that's a result of the relationship that the city has developed with Sausalito Yacht Harbor by virtue of the bulkhead project we are in the last stages of finalizing those documents. Once those documents are recorded, which grant us the right to lay and maintain sewer lines and portions of their property, the city attorney will then be in a position to issue a legal opinion that should completely satisfy the state that we have sufficient control over the land that the Spinnaker Anchor sewer project will take place in. that they will issue a an unconditional funding commitment for us on that project. They have offered to issue a conditional funding commitment. We have accepted that offer. I don't have the paperwork yet. But what that conditional commitment will let us do is seek reimbursement for our design costs. So even though we've had to delay awarding the construction contract, we're at least in a position to try and expedite the cash flow there. |
| 03:09:25.09 | Jonathan Leone | Oh. |
| 03:09:25.29 | Adam Politzer | Thank you. |
| 03:09:26.95 | Jonathan Leone | We simply... writing an easement agreement or are we being held hostage for something to get an easement for the over crossing Madden's |
| 03:09:36.55 | Jonathon Goldman | we are accepting an easement that they are granting us. At no cost. |
| 03:09:42.66 | Jonathan Leone | Right, so there's a sewer there already. Yes. |
| 03:09:45.20 | Jonathon Goldman | Yes. |
| 03:09:47.85 | Jonathan Leone | They're claiming there's no easement for that sewer. |
| 03:09:50.35 | Jonathon Goldman | There is no easement for that sewer. |
| 03:09:52.68 | Jonathan Leone | So it shouldn't be a hassle for them to, unless they want something, to grant them. |
| 03:09:56.14 | Jonathon Goldman | It has not been a hassle. What we need to satisfy the state is a legal opinion and recorded documents. And by completing that process, we will satisfy the state. |
| 03:10:13.44 | Jonathon Goldman | The last item and most important in terms of action that we're seeking from you this evening, with Council Action of February 24th, 2009. Council approved transmittal of a draft sewer enhancement plan which was subsequently approved by an authorized Northern California River Watch representative. Excuse me. The approved document contained language regarding a low interest loan program, which is included in the staff report. Since that time, the city has had very few parties express interest in the low interest loan program. However, recently several projects have been identified that warrant adoption of a policy for such a program. Staff has developed our Administrative Services Director, Treasurer, and our Sanitary Sewer System Coordinator, and the city attorney, and I have developed a number of projects the attached sewer lateral loan program guidelines and application and recommend that council review it, gather public comment, and authorize staff to implement this program. Fiscal impact. With respect to this, the maximum amount proposed under the loan program is $10,000 per property. Given the low demand experience since Council first approved the overall project, staff anticipates that less than $50,000 per year will be loaned The loans accrue interest at 5% per year compounded annually. which is a reasonable rate of return on sewer enterprise funds. The availability of these loans will better accomplish the city's objectives in reducing sewer related adverse environmental impacts. And so we are requesting, in addition to approving the program that staff or that council appropriate $50,000 to fund this program for this fiscal year. Additional appropriations will be requested if necessary in the future. I'm available to answer questions. Which man Kelly? |
| 03:12:26.55 | Mike Kelly | The Riverwatch deal was 100 grand. We're proposing 50 here. Are we still short of meeting that obligation? |
| 03:12:26.60 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 03:12:33.06 | Jonathon Goldman | The Riverwatch included several different components. One was grants, and we have been granting to appropriately qualified applicants. It's basically a 50% match up to a certain amount. This component is loans, and we don't have, I don't recall that we agreed to a specific amount that we would loan, but what we did is describe this language in general, consistent with Sausalito Marin City Sanitary District and Tamal Pais Community Services District, to try to frame the issue, satisfy the River Watch piece, and then our intent was to just see what happened. And again, it's been two years. We've only at this point got a couple of folks who have significant enough work to do and |
| 03:12:39.79 | Mike Kelly | Uh, |
| 03:12:40.01 | Christopher Verplank | Yeah. |
| 03:12:52.37 | Christopher Verplank | Oh. |
| 03:13:33.69 | Jonathon Goldman | have an attitude that instead of arguing about it or fighting amongst themselves says, look, will you help us do this? We want to do the right thing. Rather than do that on an ad hoc basis or try and negotiate it at a staff level, Charlie and Mary's advice is let's develop some language, let's develop some terms, and have counsel weigh on in that before we start lending people money. |
| 03:14:00.19 | Mike Kelly | It says like the bottom line is we feel like we're in compliance with our responsibilities |
| 03:14:04.93 | Jonathan Leone | Yes. So would the original funding come from what's remaining in that original $100,000 allocation of funds? |
| 03:14:13.33 | Jonathon Goldman | Um, |
| 03:14:13.85 | Jonathan Leone | or how much has been dispersed out of that and what's left. |
| 03:14:13.89 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. I don't think I have that information with me, and I apologize for that. This appropriation would come out of otherwise unappropriated sewer enterprise funds. And just to remind you, one of the premises of the settlement was it's funds that we wouldn't otherwise have spent in our maintenance or operation of the system. So it's accomplishing a good that we wouldn't otherwise accomplish. |
| 03:14:47.81 | Mike Kelly | and through really Thank you. very competent negotiations Thank you. River Watch attorneys ended up contributing to that fund. |
| 03:15:00.09 | Jonathan Leone | I would caution you with this because, you know, with the recent housing downturn, what's come to light with a lot of these programs, whether they're in Melrose districts or whatever, is that you can't do this. Is that you, this is not considered a government tax and therefore doesn't sit at the top in any foreclosure scenario. That you, yeah, no, this is. I totally agree and we wouldn't. |
| 03:15:21.88 | Mary Wagner | I totally agree, and we wouldn't even be asking to subordinate to their first. We'd be wiped out if the first foreclosed. Yeah. |
| 03:15:30.74 | Jonathan Leone | Right, and so they, well, you wouldn't even have a place at the table because you're not getting the permission of the first to actually have this loan against the property. |
| 03:15:38.57 | Mary Wagner | it's subordinate but I agree I agree with you that it's |
| 03:15:40.73 | Jonathan Leone | So I wouldn't do this in this form because, and that's currently still up in the air, because in the rent energy district is going through, authorities has to put its plans on hold to loan people money for solar installations for the same reason, is that you can't perfect your interest on the property in whatever way because Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac won't let you. And they're writing all the mortgages now. |
| 03:15:49.86 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 03:15:54.82 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 03:15:54.85 | Mike Kelly | Mm-hmm. |
| 03:15:55.31 | Heidi Scoble | to the next one. |
| 03:15:57.43 | Mike Kelly | Mm-hmm. |
| 03:15:58.30 | Heidi Scoble | So, |
| 03:16:01.53 | Mike Kelly | Mm-hmm. |
| 03:16:03.68 | Jonathan Leone | So they're saying, you can't come in above us, and we won't approve of anything below us. So you're essentially making a personal loan, because you can't get the security of the property. |
| 03:16:08.17 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 03:16:14.43 | Mike Kelly | Well, that wouldn't necessarily, you could, as long as the property doesn't go into foreclosure, the second would be valid. In other words, at a payoff, |
| 03:16:24.28 | Jonathan Leone | No, because most mortgages have language unless I approve to have a second or something below. You can't promise this property to somebody else. |
| 03:16:27.32 | Mike Kelly | or something below, you pay a price. True, but the first mortgage guy would have to take action under that provision of his loan and they seldom do unless there's a default. So if the house, let's say I I had a $100,000 loan in my house and I borrowed 10 grand and now I have 110 and I got first |
| 03:16:45.58 | Linda Pfeifer | Right. |
| 03:16:45.92 | Mike Kelly | I'm in technical default of my first for having put the second on because I wouldn't boast But the bank doesn't really, I'm paying my payment every month. Bank is a happy camper. I decided to sell my house. to somebody else. All those mortgages will get paid off in that chain. So it only comes up when somebody, when the first says, wait a minute, either you haven't been paying, I'm going to foreclose, or B, you're in technical default of your loan, I intend to foreclose under the technical default clause. Great, well, then you'd be welcome. |
| 03:17:15.40 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 03:17:15.41 | Carolyn Ford | Mr. Mayor? |
| 03:17:16.73 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. Yeah. |
| 03:17:17.64 | Heidi Scoble | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 03:17:17.67 | Carolyn Ford | I think I'm going to move. |
| 03:17:17.74 | Linda Pfeifer | I don't remember. you you |
| 03:17:19.06 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 03:17:19.08 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 03:17:19.13 | Carolyn Ford | Boy. Thank you. These loans are very small, aren't they? Up to 5,000 or something? Yeah, it's 10,000 maximum. |
| 03:17:26.13 | Jonathon Goldman | Yeah, it's 10,000 maximum for, but, and, and. |
| 03:17:28.44 | Heidi Scoble | All right. for a while. |
| 03:17:32.42 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. |
| 03:17:32.46 | Heidi Scoble | Uh. |
| 03:17:32.73 | Jonathon Goldman | Bye. Certainly that doesn't mean that, for example, if you approve this tonight, you know, we wouldn't run some risk unless there's a way to restructure this or tighten it to reduce the risk. |
| 03:17:46.33 | Mary Wagner | Amen. |
| 03:17:47.73 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. Right. |
| 03:17:48.96 | Mary Wagner | I believe you would be subordinate to the first loan regardless. I mean, you're coming in behind. We would not ask the first to allow us priority. |
| 03:17:54.04 | Jonathan Leone | I mean, you're Thank you. But you can't collect on a property tax roll as you're proposing here. It says here that you're having the same method of repayment that would go out. You'd have to set them a bill outside of that. You can't rely on the registrar or the |
| 03:18:01.40 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 03:18:10.41 | Linda Pfeifer | Right. |
| 03:18:15.20 | Jonathan Leone | tax whatever it is. Correct. To actually, you won't, because it says in here somewhere. |
| 03:18:16.52 | Mike Kelly | Correct. |
| 03:18:20.58 | Mike Kelly | You're absolutely right. This is just a loan. We're not asking that. |
| 03:18:23.57 | Mary Wagner | We're not asking that. I mean, it's a lien in that it's a deed of trust. It's not a, it doesn't go on the tax roll. |
| 03:18:29.50 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 03:18:33.26 | Mary Wagner | We're not asking that it be a lien, something that you would do for other purposes like your property taxes. It's being treated as a deed of trust that's subordinate to whatever precedes it in time. And I would not suggest that you would even ask to be for subordination from the first or from the home loans. It's a mechanism. I mean, unfortunately, if somebody's in default on their first, they're likely going to be in default on their second and their third. They're relatively small loans. It gives you a place at the table. As Councilmember Kelley said, it provides record notice about the loan. It allows you to be repaid upon sale if there's adequate proceeds. Um, But- foreclosure of a $2,000 loan is going to be highly unlikely. |
| 03:19:26.03 | Linda Pfeifer | Mm-hmm. Thank you. |
| 03:19:28.46 | Jonathan Leone | You're asking for a recordation of a trust, due to trust, and then you have parentheses mortgage against the property in the full amount of loan approved at the time of the first partial payment. Interest at the rate agree will be approved on partial payments. |
| 03:19:42.88 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. |
| 03:19:47.02 | Jonathan Leone | I mean, I don't... Why do you want a deed of trust? It's you're not having a pledge of the property. So what are we trying to accomplish here? You're trying to have security by the property. |
| 03:19:57.95 | Mary Wagner | You do have some security from the property, yes. You would also be notified if the property is going into foreclosure as a subordinate lien holder. |
| 03:20:10.05 | Mary Wagner | I think we're recommending a traditional format of security. If the council would like us to pursue other forms of security, we're happy to do that. You don't want them secured. You want them just to be promissory notes that we go against as a contract. |
| 03:20:25.12 | Mike Kelly | I don't recommend that, but you could do it. It doesn't cost us anything. We don't lose anything by taking a second D. So we should take it. And 50% of the time, we probably would be... |
| 03:20:26.93 | Mary Wagner | I don't recommend that, but you could do it. |
| 03:20:38.20 | Jonathan Leone | You have it here in the staff report, it says the district city and TCSD would collect loan payments via the tax rule, similar to the way sewer charges, service charges are collected. So, which is it? Well... Because you can't do that. You can't go on the tax rule unless you won't get it paid. That amount of money will never get paid if somebody goes in default because it's already been... |
| 03:20:48.26 | Heidi Scoble | Yes. |
| 03:20:48.51 | Mike Kelly | We'll be right back. |
| 03:20:48.55 | Heidi Scoble | WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO BE ABLE TO Well, |
| 03:21:05.27 | Jonathan Leone | your mortgage holders have sued and basically wiped out anything that is not a tax, and this isn't a tax. unless you call it a tax and do it under some other mechanism to make it a tax. |
| 03:21:15.82 | Mike Kelly | to make it a tax. Are we actually doing this outside? This low interest loan program is just what was originally set forth as a template by the three agencies. We're not participating in that. We're doing this on our own, out of our own sewer enterprise fund. So what it says in here, I agree with you, what says it here is wrong. |
| 03:21:24.83 | Heidi Scoble | Correct. |
| 03:21:36.69 | Herb Weiner | I'm hearing. |
| 03:21:37.16 | Mike Kelly | Yeah. |
| 03:21:37.23 | Mary Wagner | Can I just respond? I mean, what you're quoting is a provision that was in, I believe, in the SEP. Yes. And what the council's prior authorization is. My recommendation is that you secure the loans by deeds of trust, which I believe is in the program, the recommended program. The quoted language that council member Leon is quoting is on page 6E4 of the staff report I believe and it says the council approved your middle transmittal of a draft set which was subsequently approved by Northern California River Watch and it contained this language regarding a low-interest loan program I believe that this was taken from Northern California River Watch's review of looking at what TCSD had done. And I also think that the loan program that we're proposing has security in the form of a mortgage and deed of trust. |
| 03:21:44.77 | Heidi Scoble | Yes. |
| 03:22:05.34 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 03:22:41.30 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 03:22:41.32 | Linda Pfeifer | Mm-hmm. |
| 03:22:42.55 | Linda Pfeifer | Mr. Mayor, I have a question. |
| 03:22:44.38 | Herb Weiner | Council Member Fay. |
| 03:22:45.37 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 03:22:45.40 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 03:22:46.00 | Linda Pfeifer | When we're determining who to give these loans to, is there any way we can stipulate the current health of the mortgage to equity ratio of their home or anything like this? I mean to kind of weigh the risks of could this person default or? Yeah. |
| 03:23:07.95 | Mary Wagner | as part of the criteria. We can get a title report. We can figure out what else is on the property. The difficult thing there is to really do an adequate analysis. You need an appraisal. And the cost of getting an appraisal is going to |
| 03:23:08.29 | Linda Pfeifer | as part of the criteria. |
| 03:23:19.07 | Mary Wagner | outstrip the cost of doing a loan. |
| 03:23:20.91 | Linda Pfeifer | you Thank you. |
| 03:23:21.99 | Heidi Scoble | Yeah. Well, setting aside that. |
| 03:23:22.21 | Mary Wagner | Well, if I could keep going. So if you look at somebody's property and they're so obviously over encumbered on their property. That's one. instance. get title reports, there's some cost to that. Um, There's all, but if you, you know, then there's the medium ones where you're not quite sure and then the ones that look like they've got an old mortgage from, you know, 50 years, 30 years ago. |
| 03:23:46.81 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah. |
| 03:23:46.85 | Mary Wagner | And they've got a lot of equity in their property. |
| 03:23:48.62 | Linda Pfeifer | Right. It just seems to me like without doing an expensive appraisal, there could be some criteria we could put on with respect to taking a look at the risks and the But it's still a smile on it. |
| 03:24:00.48 | Carolyn Ford | It's still a small amount. |
| 03:24:01.88 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 03:24:01.92 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 03:24:01.97 | Linda Pfeifer | It's still a small amount. It is a small amount. |
| 03:24:05.36 | Carolyn Ford | You know, I'm going to make a motion that City Council |
| 03:24:13.27 | Herb Weiner | Shit. |
| 03:24:13.88 | Carolyn Ford | except the the attached resolution authorizing and appropriating funds for the establishment of the sewer lateral loan program under the terms and conditions provided |
| 03:24:30.87 | Jonathan Leone | Is there any criteria for eligibility for this? You know, like if you actually need to borrow the money. |
| 03:24:37.96 | Jonathon Goldman | Well, absolutely. It's essentially a first-come, first-served based on a trigger, which is usually the result of either repetitive overflows, substantial remodel of the home, or the sale of the home. |
| 03:24:45.49 | Mike Kelly | which is... |
| 03:24:46.11 | Christopher Verplank | Thank you. |
| 03:24:54.75 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. |
| 03:24:54.77 | Jonathan Leone | No, I meant like from the financial standpoint, if you need to borrow the money |
| 03:24:59.12 | Jonathon Goldman | Um... |
| 03:24:59.65 | Jonathan Leone | versus using your own. |
| 03:25:00.88 | Jonathon Goldman | Yeah, that's a good question. We don't have anything crafted. One of the suggestions in the staff report is that assuming council's willing to go in this direction, that staff would have the obligation to formulate appropriate documents and implement the program in accordance with the plan. |
| 03:25:04.86 | Jonathan Leone | Oh, right. |
| 03:25:05.52 | Herb Weiner | No trap. |
| 03:25:24.22 | Jonathon Goldman | these kind of principles? Those are good questions and certainly something we would. |
| 03:25:31.44 | Mike Kelly | I... |
| 03:25:31.79 | Herb Weiner | I'll second Councilmember Ford's motion. |
| 03:25:32.55 | Mike Kelly | So, |
| 03:25:32.70 | Jonathon Goldman | I'm not sure. |
| 03:25:32.75 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 03:25:32.77 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. |
| 03:25:35.56 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 03:25:35.94 | Mike Kelly | Mr. Mayor, I would be comfortable allowing staff to come up with a set of guidelines that would, you know, ensure that a gazillionaire on the hill won't borrow money from us for 5% when he could get it |
| 03:25:46.05 | Herb Weiner | Yeah. No, the idea is that you have a lot of people that have aged in this town, and they bought their homes a long time ago, and this would be a hit for them, and we should be able to help them out because they certainly have the equity there. |
| 03:25:57.64 | Heidi Scoble | health. |
| 03:26:00.95 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 03:26:01.07 | Heidi Scoble | Mm-hmm. |
| 03:26:01.32 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. And that's what we should be doing. |
| 03:26:03.25 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 03:26:03.28 | Mike Kelly | You can look at Zillow or any number of different appraisal services on the web and find out in the neighborhood what houses they're selling for. |
| 03:26:03.35 | Heidi Scoble | Sure. |
| 03:26:11.40 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 03:26:11.53 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 03:26:11.57 | Mike Kelly | Yeah. |
| 03:26:11.60 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. I'm not so concerned about the home value. I mean, Chuck knows better than anybody how you can find out who's what debt is on a property, all you have to do is go to the assessor's office and see who's filed something on a property. There may be some unsecured |
| 03:26:21.27 | Jonathon Goldman | I hope so. |
| 03:26:24.58 | Jonathan Leone | debt that's there, so you don't have to write a full title report to get that, or to get an appraisal of the property given the size of the loan. My personal approach to these things is you've got to do them right, and there's no rush to do this, and to make sure you have perfected interest and that it's not going to be an administrative nightmare to administer these things, and that you have a process set up So when someone else is doing that a few years from now, that you have a process set up so when someone else is doing it a few years from now that you should be doing it |
| 03:26:39.80 | Jonathon Goldman | you |
| 03:26:39.88 | Heidi Scoble | No. |
| 03:26:39.95 | Jonathon Goldman | Yes. |
| 03:26:49.91 | Heidi Scoble | someone else to put back. Thank you. |
| 03:26:51.91 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 03:26:51.95 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 03:26:52.05 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 03:26:52.18 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 03:26:54.53 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 03:26:54.63 | Herb Weiner | Yeah. |
| 03:26:54.65 | Mike Kelly | . |
| 03:26:54.70 | Herb Weiner | Yeah. Well, that's the purpose of it. |
| 03:26:58.56 | Mike Kelly | Why don't we do this? I have full faith in confidence that Charlie can set up any program anywhere that would satisfy that and maybe we approve this and then as a matter of course just come back to us and let us know what the terms are and how you get it. |
| 03:27:03.02 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 03:27:03.71 | Debbie | Thank you. |
| 03:27:03.90 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. |
| 03:27:14.32 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 03:27:14.42 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 03:27:14.48 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 03:27:14.58 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 03:27:14.59 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 03:27:14.61 | Mike Kelly | I don't think as good as we are up here, I don't think we should be trying to craft procedures for the law. |
| 03:27:14.63 | Herb Weiner | Okay. |
| 03:27:14.97 | Heidi Scoble | We'll be right back. |
| 03:27:15.03 | Herb Weiner | Yeah. |
| 03:27:15.52 | Heidi Scoble | I'm just trying to crash. I don't think that it was really... |
| 03:27:20.48 | Herb Weiner | No, but we know what the purpose of this is and what the good intention of it is. So I second it. All in favor? Aye. Aye. |
| 03:27:31.33 | Jonathan Leone | of the |
| 03:27:31.54 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 03:27:31.55 | Jonathan Leone | Bye. I just think this needs more work, man. You're just not ready for it. You're not ready. You're going to create problems for someone else to inherit. And that's the government. First of all, government shouldn't be alone for everybody. It should be alone for people who actually need the money. And that's not in your resolution. Secondly, the way you have of securing these things is not adequate. Well, let me have already voted, but I |
| 03:27:34.54 | Herb Weiner | AND YOU'RE STILL GOING TO or not |
| 03:27:40.97 | Herb Weiner | Government perspective. |
| 03:27:41.46 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. |
| 03:27:46.03 | Jonathon Goldman | and Thank you. |
| 03:27:47.89 | Linda Pfeifer | I'm not. |
| 03:27:48.21 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. |
| 03:27:52.50 | Linda Pfeifer | Well, we've already voted, but I was going to amend the motion to include a process for qualification that considers the financial need of the loan applicant. |
| 03:27:56.75 | Jonathan Leone | I. |
| 03:27:57.03 | Carolyn Ford | Me too. |
| 03:28:10.67 | Herb Weiner | As long as we protect the elderly. |
| 03:28:12.44 | Carolyn Ford | I accept that. |
| 03:28:15.26 | Herb Weiner | Can you live with it? |
| 03:28:17.28 | Jonathan Leone | I think you have to really make sure how you're securing this is a proper way so that you can get the greatest degree of security possible. Otherwise, you're... |
| 03:28:21.77 | Herb Weiner | Well, we know why. |
| 03:28:29.01 | Jonathan Leone | You're splitting out a lot of small debts that eventually add up to a lot of big debts if something matters. |
| 03:28:33.45 | Linda Pfeifer | I agree. So as part of my amendment, I will include. So we have an amendment. Hang on. |
| 03:28:34.61 | Jonathan Leone | I agree. So I... So we have an amendment. |
| 03:28:38.97 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 03:28:38.99 | Jonathan Leone | So, |
| 03:28:39.93 | Linda Pfeifer | a process set up to consider the financial qualifications of a loan applicant, as well as the financial health and security for the loan. I think we should trust |
| 03:28:56.74 | Carolyn Ford | I think we should trust staff to come back to us with a plan and then we'll review it. If there are any issues, we can discuss it then, but I think we should trust them to move forward. |
| 03:28:59.49 | Linda Pfeifer | to |
| 03:29:10.69 | Herb Weiner | to move forward. You're going to have people that are elderly that really don't have the finances but they have the equity because they've been living in that home for so many years. |
| 03:29:15.91 | Carolyn Ford | but they RIGHT. |
| 03:29:20.28 | Herb Weiner | And those are the ones that I look at that you want to be able to help, in my opinion. |
| 03:29:24.82 | Linda Pfeifer | I... I completely support this. I mean, I really support this. At the same time, I think there's nothing wrong in highlighting the need for, you know, that security component, which I think Council Member Leon does raise some important points with respect to just even looking at the staff report, there is, you know, there is one reference |
| 03:29:52.65 | Carolyn Ford | Mr. Mayor, let's I agree with Councilman Kelly on this. Let's have staff come back to us with the way they are going to proceed and just go ahead with it. |
| 03:29:57.12 | Linda Pfeifer | I agree with you. |
| 03:29:57.98 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. |
| 03:30:09.07 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 03:30:09.10 | Mary Wagner | I apologize, but the vote and the second and the motion that was voted on didn't involve returning to council. If you want to make a motion to reconsider the action that you took, that would be the appropriate form. The direction we received was to go forth and develop the program utilizing the services of your staff. |
| 03:30:10.62 | Carolyn Ford | but |
| 03:30:13.57 | Jonathon Goldman | I'm done. |
| 03:30:19.26 | Jonathon Goldman | the appropriate form. |
| 03:30:21.03 | Herb Weiner | the direction we... |
| 03:30:27.24 | Herb Weiner | Okay. |
| 03:30:27.71 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 03:30:28.45 | Herb Weiner | All right. Thank you. Jonathan, thank you very much. Chuck, I always have time for you. |
| 03:30:35.41 | Jonathan Leone | It's so short-sighted. I know, but... No, you don't just piss money out the window. |
| 03:30:39.66 | Chuck Donald | For me personally, this is Chuck Donald again. For me personally, this is the most important thing in tonight's agenda. I have an appointment with one of the Well known. plumbing companies to come and Look at this. the modification of my service lateral this week. And so I'm going to be doing that one way or another. Fortunately, I don't have a first mortgage, capable, I think, of paying it without a loan. But this is all very interesting and I think it's a good program for people that need it. That it ought to be done. But my question now, if I can ask this, Before, when the River Watch started this two or three years ago, There was some sort of program that says there was a grant available to people to do this. Now we're talking about a loan. is the loan. preclude that grant program, it's not in existence anymore, or can I still ask the city to pay for what's going to be done. |
| 03:31:36.73 | Carolyn Ford | You can still ask the city to pay for that inspection. That answers the question. Thank you. Yeah. Sure. |
| 03:31:37.05 | Chuck Donald | So, That answers the question. |
| 03:31:41.71 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. Okay, Grant took Richmond. All right. Okay, thank you. |
| 03:31:44.61 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 03:31:44.63 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 03:31:51.33 | Herb Weiner | you City Manager. Report. |
| 03:31:58.85 | Adam Politzer | Not much to report. I do also want to welcome our new division manager in the Public Works Department. Very excited. about bringing him onto the team and giving our public works director the much needed help and expertise that the department will really benefit from as well as our community. Especially when we're talking about back to the basics and Lauren's exceptional work. working with staff, all the contractors, all the subs, all the resources that he had, at his fingertips to help us get through a massive project for our city to build two buildings and people are still complimenting how nice they look, how well they function, and I think that that two-year interview um, It worked out just fine for both the city and for Lauren. |
| 03:32:53.21 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. Shh. |
| 03:32:55.62 | Adam Politzer | I apologize for not letting you know in advance, but I really did want to see your reaction. Thank you. A little selfish there. |
| 03:33:01.27 | Heidi Scoble | I know. |
| 03:33:02.83 | Adam Politzer | because it was such a left field reach. You know, we went through the process and we had some outstanding candidates, but really not the right candidate for this community. And when Jonathan... And Charlie and I were sitting down talking about, because Charlie was also on the interview panel, the final interview panel of the original candidates. And when we sat down and we were just trying to come up with what are we looking for, I just said, the person that we're looking for is Lauren. But I just don't think that he would leave a really great company with Swinerton and a real promising career. and come join us, but after a lot of discussion. and arm twisting. You've been punked. |
| 03:33:49.06 | Heidi Scoble | Yes. Thank you. |
| 03:33:49.59 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 03:33:53.91 | Adam Politzer | Good work. |
| 03:33:54.02 | Heidi Scoble | but |
| 03:33:55.71 | Adam Politzer | But I'm sharing this one because I don't have a lot of other things that I want to talk about. But two, I just really want to talk about how important this is. Because when we talk about back to the basics, you know, it is maintenance. It is looking at our streets and roads. It's having someone that has project management experience that can actually take all this with all these employees that we have that are now capable of doing a lot of things, including fixing our sewers, fixing our roads at our next council meeting. |
| 03:33:55.86 | Linda Pfeifer | Bye. |
| 03:33:55.90 | Heidi Scoble | Yeah. |
| 03:33:56.08 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 03:34:20.98 | Adam Politzer | we'll be approving or asking you to approve the contract for the next phase of all the street improvements that we're going to be doing at the end of the summer and into the fall as we go forward. So having Lauren on the team, working with Todd Teachout, working with Kent Basso, and with Jonathan, and obviously I have had my fingers in his department, in Jonathan's department, trying to keep this back to the basic concept going forward. I just can't tell you how much of an impact Lauren's going to make if it's for one year, for five years, for ten years, it's going to be significant and it's going to get us really on the right, on the track. So Lauren, thank you for joining the team and welcome to the team. And I think we're all going to be very very pleased looking at the next six months of things that are going to come forward and hearing somebody other than Jonathan give presentations. That's another thing that Lauren did well, is worked with the council, worked with the public, and gave excellent presentations. You didn't get a standing ovation tonight, but I did sleep well when you accepted, and I know that the community is going to benefit. |
| 03:35:39.16 | Mike Kelly | I would add congratulations on completing your two-year probation period. |
| 03:35:44.41 | Adam Politzer | The other item that I don't have much details on this because it will come forward at our next council meeting on the 26th, but it really is to look back at our last mayors and council dinner that was held at Spinnaker. |
| 03:35:44.59 | Mike Kelly | Yeah. |
| 03:35:59.27 | Adam Politzer | and our guest speakers that came and talked to us about the America's Cup. One, I just want to thank the mayor. He continues to bring forward people to help inform us of what's coming. But I thought that presentation in the history of the America's Cup was really valuable to understand how it became. You know, these Yankees go off to England and challenge the royal fleet. And so that information. Yeah, so that story was valuable to understand where we are today. But more importantly is that this race is coming. |
| 03:36:27.03 | Heidi Scoble | you know, so that information, Yeah. |
| 03:36:37.76 | Adam Politzer | And as much as we know that we have to deal with it and that we have to look at ways to protect our community from any of the impacts that come with it, I also want to remind the council and the community to look at how we can celebrate it. And when the tour of California came to town, which is going to be much much smaller than of an impact than what the America's Cup's going to be. You know, there was folks in town that said, let's not do anything. um, And there was staff that said, let's not do anything. But instead, the community spirit chain forward. And we had some really great and fun events. And we ended up becoming the model. for all the other communities. that now enjoy the eight stages of the race here still, and now it's fifth year. It just concluded its fifth year. So let's look for opportunities to embrace it. Let's look for opportunities for our residents to really benefit and enjoy it. and then also look at having the impact that these races have for many years to come on our sales tax and our revenue. as the task force comes forward at our next council meeting. and talks about the three different areas that they have been exploring and discussing. You know, recognize that the event is coming. There really is not a whole lot of time to just do the minimal stuff to prepare for it. As all of the yacht clubs, all of the racing committees are going to start, you know, invading our bay and putting on many races, it's like the San Rafael, criterion that they do in the evening. They just had it, I believe, this past Saturday night. You know, it's a big race in Marin County now because of what has happened with the tour to California and the tour to France. You know, so there's going to be a lot of folks that look at opportunity to hosting local events here. That will start soon. and then we'll go on into the future well past the date that the America's Cup comes and goes to the Bay Area. So I just wanted to try to open up everyone's creative minds and look at opportunities when some of these ideas come forward to explore and then give direction to the staff. It is a priority calendar item with nothing attached to it. No money, no resources other than this task force work, but there's going to be a lot of work that comes even if it's just infrastructure work. |
| 03:39:07.65 | Mike Kelly | I got a call about 4 o'clock today from the IJ. Apparently, the EIR is out. And there's a 5,000 per person, or 5,000 people per day predicted for Sausalito, which probably sounds low to me, because that's kind of a normal tourist weekend. But nonetheless, there is that. So you'll probably see it in the IJ tomorrow. |
| 03:39:12.74 | Adam Politzer | Yeah. |
| 03:39:23.66 | Herb Weiner | Bye, bye. you |
| 03:39:25.74 | Adam Politzer | But nonetheless, it's... |
| 03:39:31.86 | Mike Kelly | this. |
| 03:39:32.17 | Adam Politzer | Staff is reviewing that and looking at elements of that report that pertain to Sausalito and |
| 03:39:32.39 | Mike Kelly | Staff in. |
| 03:39:41.03 | Adam Politzer | provide you folks with a Um... Update on that one staff has had an opportunity to get all the way through it |
| 03:39:46.97 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 03:39:47.71 | Adam Politzer | We'll get that. |
| 03:39:48.97 | Herb Weiner | just alone on the extra ferries that will be coming from Laksper to Sausalito and from Jack London Square to Sausalito. You'll see 5,000 just alone there, so I don't know what tunnel they were going through. But anyway, thank you. Future items? |
| 03:40:08.31 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 03:40:08.33 | Linda Pfeifer | Oh, agenda items? Future agenda items. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. |
| 03:40:09.98 | Herb Weiner | If you're choosing the end of the item. Council Member Pfeiffer, you always have one or two. |
| 03:40:17.09 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. Well, we heard one tonight. The trees in front of B of A, I don't know if it's a future agenda item, but it's certainly something I've been meaning to follow up with Jonathan Goldman on. I guess it's at the Planning Commission, and I guess I just want to confirm that that matter will come back before the council with respect to the bathrooms and, you know, So I guess that's number one. Number two is because I'm very, obviously I'm very concerned about the prospect of potentially losing what I can consider heritage trees in front of Bank of America to the new restrooms. So the other future agenda item I have is the Ice House Plaza. I know that that legal counsel right now is working on an analysis related to that, and I would be interested in having that move forward in front of our counsel. The next item is actually not, well, I guess it's a future agenda item, regarding the HLB and HLB status. It's my understanding that we have one term that is limiting, I guess a term limit that's expiring, and I guess we need to move forward with appointments so that they have a quorum. Is that correct? Anyway, that's just a future. |
| 03:41:56.14 | Jonathan Leone | You can serve on boards and committees until someone else is appointed. |
| 03:42:01.38 | Linda Pfeifer | And, |
| 03:42:01.61 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 03:42:01.71 | Linda Pfeifer | you |
| 03:42:01.78 | Jonathan Leone | You just can't be reappointed. |
| 03:42:01.88 | Linda Pfeifer | You just can't. |
| 03:42:04.01 | Jonathan Leone | until |
| 03:42:04.24 | Linda Pfeifer | Until, so do we have applicants for HLB? |
| 03:42:08.46 | Jonathan Leone | There isn't a form. |
| 03:42:09.69 | Debbie | you |
| 03:42:15.57 | Debbie | I don't know what the exact number is. I only know of one. And you have more. positions to consider than one. I'm sorry. |
| 03:42:27.25 | Linda Pfeifer | I'm sorry, well, I know we have at least two that I know of that we're moving forward with that. But anyway, just that was my, those were my issues. Thank you. |
| 03:42:45.39 | Carolyn Ford | Okay, yes, Mr. Mayor, I would like to pursue the Sustainabilities Committee issue on leaf blowers just to have staff come back to us with a an estimate of how much time that would take and if it's something that is doable. Um, |
| 03:43:06.28 | Herb Weiner | Just as a note, Tiburon has one. and I've spoken to them a few times on this, they decided not to enforce it at all. And one of the reasons that they found out that people, instead of using a womb because they were too lazy, were ending up using water hoses. And because of that, has decided not to really enforce their that because of the amount of wasted water I don't think that was being used. So, They have They have an ordinance but they do not enforce it at all. |
| 03:43:45.17 | Carolyn Ford | That's interesting. |
| 03:43:46.37 | Herb Weiner | OK, can you get checked with that? Because I'm talking about the time. |
| 03:43:47.96 | Carolyn Ford | Sure. Okay. The other thing is, now that Teatro Piccolo is out of business, I'm wondering if we can do something about those planters that stick way out into the sidewalk and impede pedestrian traffic. |
| 03:44:08.75 | Jonathan Leone | It runs with the private. Thank you. Once you have a Planning Commission approval, it runs with the property, not the property. |
| 03:44:15.95 | Linda Pfeifer | If I may respond, add to Councilmember Ford your comment, it's my understanding that there were some questions as to the planners position with respect to the ADA access. |
| 03:44:30.50 | Carolyn Ford | That's my understanding as well. And that came up after the Planning Commission was approved, had approved it. So that's why I would like it looked into. And if we're going to remove them, now is the time. |
| 03:44:36.56 | Linda Pfeifer | That's right. |
| 03:44:41.45 | Heidi Scoble | Right. |
| 03:44:41.70 | Adam Politzer | Thank you. |
| 03:44:41.74 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 03:44:46.04 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 03:44:46.80 | Adam Politzer | It was looked into. Bill Werner had raised those questions and Jonathan Goldman and Bill Warner came to a mutual agreement that the ADA issues have been addressed. |
| 03:45:03.51 | Carolyn Ford | interesting because it certainly is an issue when you're walking downtown on the weekends. I will see. I'll talk to our public works director about that then. |
| 03:45:12.55 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 03:45:15.98 | Jonathan Leone | There's a question for the city attorney. City council can't revoke a permit. |
| 03:45:20.79 | Carolyn Ford | Of course not. I'm just asking. |
| 03:45:23.17 | Jonathan Leone | So So I don't know what actually could come of it. if it's already been, you know, the city council can't take an action to revoke an encroachment permit I think was what was granted. |
| 03:45:34.03 | Mary Wagner | You'd have to go through the process to have it be... |
| 03:45:38.03 | Carolyn Ford | removed, yeah. And the third thing is, do we have an idea of when the downtown bathrooms will come? back here before the council |
| 03:45:48.90 | Heidi Scoble | for the |
| 03:45:50.18 | Carolyn Ford | Thank you. |
| 03:45:50.28 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 03:45:52.04 | Adam Politzer | Staff did meet and discuss the action of the Planning Commission. and staff is planning on going back to the Planning Commission in September Um, after hearing their comments and making revisions and taking it back to the Planning Commission for further discussion. |
| 03:46:09.93 | Carolyn Ford | I see. |
| 03:46:10.53 | Linda Pfeifer | So just to confirm on that, there will be no action to remove any of the trees right |
| 03:46:10.94 | Adam Politzer | Thank you. |
| 03:46:18.31 | Adam Politzer | Correct. |
| 03:46:18.68 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. Okay, thank you. |
| 03:46:21.17 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. If those two items, the leaf blower, what was the other one? They were both in the priority calendar discussion. Ice house, smoke, and the smoking was an earlier one. So when we have these things that we know are going to take time and effort and we should have to go back and revisit |
| 03:46:33.16 | Heidi Scoble | Icehouse smoke and the smoking |
| 03:46:43.58 | Jonathan Leone | Otherwise, it's a futile exercise to go through it. And you might want to bring those back to see how people voted on that to begin with on those three things, because not the ICE House. That's not even on the priority calendar. That's a private effort that at some point will be come to this body, I suppose. But we should have to remove things from the priority calendar to make room for these other things. Otherwise, you just keep adding to the priority calendar through the course of the year. |
| 03:47:09.06 | Carolyn Ford | Agreed, but if there are some things that just require minor, minor time, then they should be looked at and accomplished. |
| 03:47:21.07 | Adam Politzer | I'll just comment on the leaf blower because cities that have Let me... take a moment to go backwards It's really a noise issue. It's not about... the gas-powered leaf, and that's what people are utilizing as a tool. So let's go ahead and ban gas power because it's bad for the carbon footprint impacts of pollution. But at the end of the day, it's really about noise. And so folks will switch over to electric-powered, and the noise will still remain. So that's one of the issues. The bigger issue that's going to come, and this is what happened in Menlo Park and other communities when you try to ban it, you then you are discriminating against this labor force that are mostly made up of Hispanic migrant workers that this is what they do. and you're going to pack your council. So it's not just a small thing. It's like the smoking ordinance that I lived through in Belmont. where all the advocates that are supporting the folks that use leaf blowers, regardless if they're electric or gas powered, are gonna come out and say you're discriminating against a type of workforce because of the noise, not because of the use of the power. And that's what the... |
| 03:48:31.04 | Jonathon Goldman | the Thank you. |
| 03:48:39.20 | Adam Politzer | Sustainability Commission is coming forward with their recommendation is to ban gas powered leaf flowers. and that recommendation doesn't address the noise issue and I think that it's going to lead to a much bigger fallout similar to what happened in Menlo Park when they tried to, when they attempted to ban leaf blowers, the migrant worker community came out and said you're discriminating against our way of life. |
| 03:49:01.92 | Jonathon Goldman | Mm-hmm. |
| 03:49:03.62 | Adam Politzer | Where if again, I think as Councilmember Leon suggested and as I heard Councilmember Ford support. Every time we go through that process, if you're going to move something on, regardless of how small, you gotta be willing to take something off or delay something or put, as we talked about earlier on another item, give more resources. If it's a priority, then okay, then we need resources. So if it's adding these six buildings, the priority was the machine job. And so that's what we budgeted for, the $15,000 for the the machine shop. So if we're gonna add the other six, and the council gave direction, come back with costs and a time estimate, and then they'll consider supporting that resource. Leaf blowers are important to this council and you review the other items that are on the priority calendar. look at the items that are on the priority calendar above the line, that we haven't yet started and then decide which ones of those we're going to delay. We have three planners. Two planners and one assistant And you can see that one, the quality of the work is exceptional. I think we all agree that you know, the work that Lilly is doing, and the work that Heidi is doing is exceptional. The work that Allison's doing with the Trees and Views Committee, we've taken that of that process to another level. But we're not talking about all the things that just happen on a daily basis. You know, that happens every day at that calendar. So a little tiny work, I don't know if it was Councilmember Leon, was just talking about the sewer program. But every $2,000 adds up. hour or 10 hours of work you know, adds up into the amount of work The people sit there and say, We haven't gotten raises for two years. you know, other types of impacts to our quality of life here, and I can't keep up with my work. I feel like I'm failing, and that's something that we've got to keep that balance on. We're happy if the council directs us to move this item up on that priority calendar above the line But I caution you that It's not just about the gas power leaf blower, it's about the noise, and that's not what's being stated in the recommendation from our sustainability commission. |
| 03:51:19.55 | Carolyn Ford | Just a quick question. Does our sustainability committee know about the noise ordinance? And are these succeeding? |
| 03:51:25.83 | Adam Politzer | I met with Ray Bergus and I've had the same conversation with him but they still are persistent They feel that it's important that the leaf blowers are banned. |
| 03:51:37.62 | Jonathan Leone | Yeah, just to, you know, I was on that commission at the time when they were doing it. So they've drafted, they took somebody else's language and drafted a draft. |
| 03:51:39.06 | Adam Politzer | Okay. |
| 03:51:44.68 | Jonathan Leone | to rise. And the concerns are noise and whether stated or unstated and health concerns from blowing stuff around. So those are the two. general things. That's why I put it on the priority calendar discussion. It didn't get voted through. I think if we're going to put it on there, which is fine if we want to, |
| 03:51:59.51 | Jonathon Goldman | Good. |
| 03:52:04.64 | Jonathan Leone | You just have to unload some other things. We're not just reacting, we're keeping true to planning. So we don't want you to get out of the way. |
| 03:52:15.02 | Linda Pfeifer | So just to confirm then, the sustainability committee, as a courtesy to them, we have submitted, closed the loop with them and let them know all the reasons and the issues that have been raised? |
| 03:52:31.79 | Adam Politzer | Well, there's a lot of loops with the Sustainability Commission, and I say that very respectfully because they're working really hard and they have a lot of items that they want to bring forward. The loop got closed when they made their recommendation to the Council and Ray Gerges stood up here and talked about their priority calendar items and the Council voted to where that item fell. The loop started with the community giving our recommendations and the council giving their vote. So Ray Gergens and the Stainload Commission understands that their item did not make it above the line. |
| 03:53:06.37 | Linda Pfeifer | I'm sorry when I need to close the loop I meant feedback from the council as to why like I'm hearing for the first time that Tiburon is not enforcing their their policy because of the use of water that the residents are using hoses to you know clear out the leaves. It just seems to me that if we could give some feedback to the sustainability committee, you know, some, they know this? Okay, that was my question. |
| 03:53:28.69 | Herb Weiner | They were. |
| 03:53:29.10 | Linda Pfeifer | know. |
| 03:53:29.37 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 03:53:29.67 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 03:53:29.74 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 03:53:31.41 | Herb Weiner | And I do go to the sustainability committees, and I did mention I relayed that what Tibberman had told me about. MS. Okay. Thank you. |
| 03:53:32.25 | Linda Pfeifer | you Okay. |
| 03:53:41.43 | Linda Pfeifer | Okay, thank you. |
| 03:53:42.41 | Herb Weiner | Okay. |
| 03:53:42.92 | Linda Pfeifer | And Mr. Mayor, I have a report. If we're done with future agenda items, I just want to say that... |
| 03:53:44.88 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 03:53:50.12 | Herb Weiner | Let me say, are we finished with agenda items? All right, then let's move on to committee reports. |
| 03:53:50.97 | Linda Pfeifer | Yeah. Mm-hmm. |
| 03:53:57.26 | Linda Pfeifer | So I will be forwarding as just FYI information to the council some materials from CDBG. Yesterday, HUD just confirmed their final allocations to the various proposals that were submitted in Richardson Bay. And so this was just finalized yesterday. And so I will be forading it to inform all of you. CDBG Community Development Block Grant. |
| 03:54:32.18 | Jonathan Leone | CDB, CDBG community. Oh, thank you. |
| 03:54:36.04 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. |
| 03:54:36.16 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 03:54:36.23 | Jonathon Goldman | you |
| 03:54:36.53 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 03:54:37.04 | Jonathon Goldman | send that to them and that's the way you're speaking. |
| 03:54:39.30 | Linda Pfeifer | That's fine. Yeah, I'll do that too. It's just that in the past I know that a council member who, you know, was a liaison to a board has sent FYI this information to the entire council. And I had requested specifically a report tailored to the interests of this council, so that's why I was proposing that. But I'd be as happy as to send it to city staff. And also, I just want to comment to Adam and city staff in general that to attract top performers to the group, it's also a reflection on the culture and you. And so I think that that's important that we acknowledge that |
| 03:54:49.09 | Jonathon Goldman | So, |
| 03:55:25.86 | Linda Pfeifer | acknowledge that, you know, to get people of that caliber here on board so you should be patting yourselves on the back on that |
| 03:55:33.53 | Mike Kelly | Yes. Thank you. |
| 03:55:34.02 | Linda Pfeifer | And... |
| 03:55:34.24 | Mike Kelly | Thank you. |
| 03:55:34.26 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. I have a good one. |
| 03:55:35.49 | Mike Kelly | Yeah, just quickly so you know what happened. Tam, as you recall, Tam voted 7-7 for SMART to make $1 million for SMART. It was a 7-7 tie. took a break. Joan Lindstrom changed her mind, and it turned into an 8-6 vote. And then Steve Kinsey, in an abundance of caution, decided to call a special meeting and re-hold the issue so that nobody felt like, because most of the people had left the room by the time the second vote occurred. We did that last Thursday, and the vote, they, he split it into two parts. One was a vote to rescind the previous action, and that vote failed by 9 to 4 or something like that. So TAM will be giving $8 million under the right circumstances with some appropriate conditions and controls, along with $10 million from MTA and MTC, MTC Metropolitan Transportation Commission and $3 million from Sonoma. So it's a total of $21 million. |
| 03:56:42.88 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. Thank you. All right. Was there a note on the next? Was there any other committee reports? On the appointments, didn't I see something on there that was for the underground committee? |
| 03:56:58.06 | Adam Politzer | Yes. |
| 03:56:58.69 | Herb Weiner | liaison from the Planning Commission |
| 03:56:58.70 | Adam Politzer | liaison from the Planning Commission |
| 03:57:04.95 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 03:57:05.05 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 03:57:05.13 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 03:57:05.27 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 03:57:06.97 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 03:57:07.16 | Adam Politzer | Thank you. |
| 03:57:08.31 | Heidi Scoble | Okay. |
| 03:57:08.42 | Adam Politzer | Thank you. |
| 03:57:10.01 | Jonathan Leone | calendar what was it a high number you wanted to get them as many points or as few points to get on the higher on the project calendar how was that how did that work |
| 03:57:17.15 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 03:57:17.28 | Jonathan Leone | All right. |
| 03:57:17.37 | Herb Weiner | Highest numbers. One was the lowest. |
| 03:57:17.57 | Jonathan Leone | All right. Thank you. |
| 03:57:17.99 | Carolyn Ford | I have this number. |
| 03:57:20.44 | Jonathan Leone | Okay, so the leaf blower, Carolyn, you voted 17 on that. And the smoking... Ordinance 28. So that's why we have the priority calendar to try to sort out what your important objectives are, and rather than pile them on later. |
| 03:57:44.43 | Carolyn Ford | Yeah, I understand, Jonathan. Thank you. |
| 03:57:46.93 | Linda Pfeifer | but you should have hired for that. |
| 03:57:48.37 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 03:57:48.40 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 03:57:48.42 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 03:57:48.47 | Jonathan Leone | Thank you. |
| 03:57:48.49 | Herb Weiner | Thank you. |
| 03:57:48.53 | Jonathan Leone | you |
| 03:57:48.82 | Herb Weiner | I think... Lower. Lower. Okay. |
| 03:57:50.42 | Jonathan Leone | Yeah. |
| 03:57:51.18 | Linda Pfeifer | Thank you. |
| 03:57:54.00 | Herb Weiner | Done. |
| 03:57:56.58 | Carolyn Ford | Second. |