| Time | Speaker | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00.03 | Chuck Donald | That's my name. Yeah. Chuck Donald. 254 Spencer, which is the second house from 300 Spencer. which is the firehouse. |
| 00:00:09.45 | Unknown | . |
| 00:00:10.12 | Chuck Donald | When I was up there walking around the other day, I see a fellow out there taking pictures of the antennas over the building, that something's going on. And then when I look at the agenda for tonight. I see that there's something happening there. And I just, from what comments I hear here, it's a renewal of the lease. and the terms and condition of the lease. Now. really why I'm here. I don't know what those are going to be, and you guys will negotiate that, I hope, appropriately. But my question is, Why does it have to be in closed session? I know that the reasons for closed sessions are generally personnel matters or negotiations for property. so that you get the best deal. But there's nobody in competition for the Lisa, that Antenna site that I knew of, So why can that not be done? in more public open session. That is sort of a rhetorical question, I think that the rules of doing things in closed session is something that should be examined. I think that this is a borderline case, from my knowledge of it, It wouldn't have to be. The other part of it is, and I'll say this, the city attorney's comments were I saw the omit agenda too. And it said, that she was coming up with. points for discussion. And so I have two. One of them is if it's gonna be someone else or if it's gonna be Verizon, Something has to be done about the maintenance of that building. The city doesn't have anything to do with it anymore. And from comments to Jonathan, he had some guys go up to the town, not Jonathan, the other Jonathan. He had some fellows go up there trim some bushes a little bit one time. But the place looks like a mess. It looks abandoned. Now, we're not there. Who is going to take care of that? a renegotiation of the lease, it should be clear there whether those people have a responsibility to maintain that site. or whether they contribute to funds where we maintain it. I don't care, just this point that should be taken care of. See, I had one other big important point I hope that light doesn't turn red. |
| 00:02:35.23 | Mayor Kelly | We'll pause it for a minute. |
| 00:02:42.76 | Chuck Donald | One of the things about getting on in the years, you've got to wear glasses. |
| 00:02:54.01 | Mayor Kelly | We have time for commercial anyway. Okay. |
| 00:02:57.94 | Chuck Donald | Oh, I know what it is. uh, If these antenna sites are going to be maintained at that site. antenna facilities to be maintained at site. There's always been the question, of is the radiation dangerous to personal health. It's always been stated that it falls below the federal standards. Well, I think the federal standards are a farce, but in any case, I think that maybe |
| 00:03:30.60 | Unknown | Two seconds. |
| 00:03:30.75 | Chuck Donald | Two seconds. Ah. If we're going to renew that lease, there should be a clause in there that the city will be held harmless by these antenna people in the event that any of us who die of melanoma are suing the city. I don't want to end up suing the city when I have to pay the taxes to the city. So I think it's a point that should be considered. What is the city's responsibility if a suit like that comes up? Thank you. |
| 00:03:53.40 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. Thank you. Mary, would you just briefly comment on why we have these go into closed session? |
| 00:04:00.75 | Mary Wagner | Sure, and first let me also state that it's staff's intent to have closed session discussion have it then included on your closed session and your open session agenda. at your next meeting or your soonest meeting thereafter that we can bring it back to you. And so the, The purpose of the closed session is to talk to the council about the deal points and if you have those types of discussions and negotiations and open session, |
| 00:04:26.10 | Unknown | you |
| 00:04:26.50 | Mary Wagner | I'll make something up. tell us this is what we really want, but if you can't get that, please go do this. And you have to do that in open session. You've completely played your deck of cards, and you lose any kind of negotiating strategy that you may have. And while there might not be, and I don't know this for a fact, but while there might not be competition from other carriers for that site, You don't want to play your card with the person with whom you're negotiating either. |
| 00:04:52.56 | Mayor Kelly | Right. Thank you. Chuck, next. |
| 00:04:59.06 | Vicki Nichols | Vicki Nichols, 117, Caledonia. Chuck, I didn't really realize this was on here, but a long Thanks, that's helpful why the negotiations were being done. But this does not preclude then a normal Planning Commission session of review with 1045, which to Chuck's point, makes the carrier demonstrate that the cumulative impact of this. And also, is this already a shared site? I don't know. Is this a new site or a shared site? As long as that's all coming up under a regular review by the Planning Commission, it sounds like it is. That would be my question. You're just talking about money now, and this will come up through a regular process. Is that right? |
| 00:05:33.19 | Mayor Kelly | No. |
| 00:05:39.62 | Mayor Kelly | We're going to ask Mary. |
| 00:05:42.73 | Mary Wagner | This is an existing facility that went through a Planning Commission review prior to the adoption of the current regulations. But the facility, in accordance with the terms of the coordinates. has to comply with the testing and reporting requirements. Thank you. and the carrier has also agreed that they'll comply with |
| 00:06:02.24 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:06:02.37 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:06:02.39 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:06:05.92 | Mary Wagner | any additional requirements of the ordinance that aren't in their existing conditional use permit? Conditional use permits run with the property, and this tenant has been in occupancy of the project for the period of time without a lapse that allows that conditional use permit to continue, but they have agreed to comply with any provisions like the performance agreement and they do comply with the testing. already that are in the ordinance now. So there will not be a conditional use permit review at the Planning Commission on the list. level for this existing facility. |
| 00:06:41.20 | Vicki Nichols | Well, then I would ask at least then there's like the biannual review. If they're coming in with new equipment, there's no chance to comment on this if they're swapping out equipment. There has to, I agree with Chuck, we've got to at least get a, and that's easy for them to provide. to make sure that their existing equipment is being tested on a cumulative basis for the. |
| 00:07:01.65 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 00:07:01.67 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you, Vicky. Yeah, GTE is Verizon now. |
| 00:07:06.09 | Mayor Kelly | Yeah. |
| 00:07:06.31 | Dorothy Gibson | Thank you. |
| 00:07:06.43 | Vicki Nichols | Correct. |
| 00:07:09.31 | Mayor Kelly | Anybody else to comment? Thank you. Any other items on the closed session? You have to come up, Mike. You have to come up. |
| 00:07:16.96 | Mike Vance | is You didn't do a pleasure of legion. That's all I want. No, no. That doesn't come until later. |
| 00:07:19.88 | Mayor Kelly | No, no, that doesn't come until later, 7 o'clock. |
| 00:07:22.97 | Unknown | like, |
| 00:07:23.20 | Mike Vance | Thank you. |
| 00:07:23.71 | Unknown | As it says. |
| 00:07:25.11 | Mayor Kelly | Right. If we stay here long enough, it'll be 7 o'clock. Thank you. All right, anybody else have any comments on closed session items? Seeing none, we'll adjourn into closed session. We'll see you at 7 o'clock. |
| 00:07:54.98 | Unknown | you you Thank you. |
| 00:07:56.50 | Mayor Kelly | I don't know, I lost her. Now I got nobody. There we are. That's one, there's two, three, we can start. |
| 00:08:00.77 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:08:03.04 | Councilmember Ford | Yeah. |
| 00:08:06.79 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:08:07.48 | Councilmember Ford | The other two are here. |
| 00:08:11.68 | Mayor Kelly | All right. |
| 00:08:26.97 | Mayor Kelly | The Oliver S.A.I. For sure. . |
| 00:08:30.70 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:08:30.94 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 00:08:31.02 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:08:31.09 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 00:08:31.12 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:08:31.16 | Mayor Kelly | Yes, indeed. |
| 00:08:37.12 | Mayor Kelly | All right. |
| 00:08:40.73 | Mayor Kelly | I'm going to work out on the web. |
| 00:08:51.61 | Mayor Kelly | All right, I'd like to call the meeting, January 10th meeting, Sausalito City Council to order. And Debbie, would you That's all the way. |
| 00:08:59.42 | Debbie (City Clerk) | Thank you. Councilmember Pfeiffer, here. Councilmember Ford? Here. Councilmember Weiner? |
| 00:09:07.37 | Mayor Kelly | Present. |
| 00:09:08.38 | Debbie (City Clerk) | Mayor Kelly? |
| 00:09:09.53 | Mayor Kelly | here. |
| 00:09:10.14 | Debbie (City Clerk) | And Vice Mayor Leon is somewhere. |
| 00:09:12.03 | Mayor Kelly | somewhere. |
| 00:09:12.74 | Debbie (City Clerk) | . |
| 00:09:13.45 | Mayor Kelly | . |
| 00:09:13.90 | Mayor Kelly | Elvis has left the building. |
| 00:09:15.73 | Mayor Kelly | All right. Mike Monset, will you lead us in the pledge of allegiance? |
| 00:09:19.79 | Unknown | I used to... |
| 00:09:20.30 | Unknown | I'm like, oh, my God. |
| 00:09:20.50 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 00:09:20.52 | Unknown | Bye. |
| 00:09:20.59 | Unknown | Bye. |
| 00:09:20.62 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 00:09:20.63 | Unknown | I'm sorry. |
| 00:09:20.96 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:09:21.72 | Unknown | So he said, mine is so good. |
| 00:09:24.97 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:09:25.07 | Unknown | to the light. |
| 00:09:26.49 | Unknown | Okay. |
| 00:09:26.96 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:09:27.27 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:09:27.28 | Unknown | I have six of them. |
| 00:09:28.38 | Mayor Kelly | America. and to the rich. |
| 00:09:30.03 | Unknown | about it. |
| 00:09:30.93 | Mayor Kelly | which it stands. Thank you. |
| 00:09:32.50 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:09:32.51 | Mayor Kelly | Amen. |
| 00:09:32.94 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:09:32.95 | Mayor Kelly | . |
| 00:09:33.85 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:09:36.46 | Mayor Kelly | liberty and justice for all. All right, thank you. All right, the council met in the closed session. Wait a minute. Yeah. Closed session and reviewed Elise and referred it back to the city attorney and to the finance director to negotiate and renegotiate. Are there any comments on the closed session item from the public? All right, seeing none, we'll move to approval of the agenda. We have a motion. So moved. Thank you. |
| 00:10:17.18 | Mayor Kelly | So, |
| 00:10:17.27 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. All in favor? Aye. |
| 00:10:19.34 | Councilmember Ford | Bye. |
| 00:10:21.23 | Mayor Kelly | All right, and special presentation is Mayor's announcement. I have none. Communications. This is a time for the public to address the Council on matters |
| 00:10:32.49 | Unknown | I thought it wasn't you for the role. Oh, no, we got it. We got you. I'll get you covered. You were something. |
| 00:10:33.67 | Mayor Kelly | Oh, no, we got it. We got you. I'll get you covered. You were something. This is a time, public communication, a time for members of the public to address the council on matters that are not on the agenda. And it is not something that we can talk about with you at this time, but we can rather listen and take action in future agendas. So are any members of the public? I have two, I guess. Mike Monsif. |
| 00:11:03.34 | Mike Vance | Mike Vance of 211 4th Street. I'm here to request for the possibility of closing the parking area in front of the three stores which would include Bridgewick Cafe, Venice Gourmet, and Angelino. for the duration of this event that is happening. And I've been around, I went down to Polk Street, I see how they did that, they took the parking, of course those are permanent, clothes that encourage the public pedestrian more area. So if there is any way we can work it out with you, obviously there is an issue of losing some parking revenue. So please. |
| 00:11:41.02 | Unknown | PAY. |
| 00:11:58.33 | Mike Vance | Let us know. I talked to all the owners over there and they are very much encouraging to do that, especially for that event. they're gonna put some kind of you know, barrier. Where did Cars are parking. and just close those four parkings. And it's a couple of issues involved that we are going to look into it. One is the liability issue. The other one is that see how we can work out the revenue you're going to lose on those parkings. |
| 00:12:31.86 | Mayor Kelly | So these are so-called pocket parts. Is that right? |
| 00:12:34.46 | Mike Vance | Yeah, well, yes, it's pocket parks. Especially when you come from Princess, it's a big radius, and then it just dive into a sidewalk, and that section from there to the parking area, to the parking lot. We'd like to see if that could be closed. So we would appreciate that. Thank you. |
| 00:12:57.97 | Unknown | All right, Kayla. |
| 00:13:05.87 | Unknown | Hi, Happy New Year. Kayla Cohn, I live on Rodeo. I want you, I'm sure you know I'm consistent and once again I'm talking about the Art Commission. It is now less than a year We need an art commission. I have artists that are that are willing to put their art in all our public buildings and our restaurants and shops and I think We definitely need an art commission. What's the matter? Well, you can't answer me. Okay, also, I forgot. Also on Rodeo, it's getting more and more dangerous. When you come down, you can't see people turning into the uh, Sausalito Towers. But now, Sunday, there were eight cars parked on the opposite side of the street, but there were also cars parked on the side of the street by the building. A car is coming down. You can't see, and also you can't pass. And I spoke with Jonathan Goldman, and he's being really good. and I know that things are progressing, but I've been coming up here for 10 years talking about this. And if somebody gets hurt, It'll be really bad. Thank you. |
| 00:14:15.63 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. Are there any other members of the public that would like to address the council on matters not on the agenda? Alright, seeing none, we'll move on. Action minutes of the previous meeting. Do I have any changes to the action minutes or any Do I have a motion? |
| 00:14:38.17 | Unknown | So moved to accept the minutes of the December 6th meeting. |
| 00:14:45.21 | Mayor Kelly | Seconded. All in favor? Aye. |
| 00:14:48.20 | Unknown | Bye. |
| 00:14:50.64 | Mayor Kelly | All right, now we're at the consent calendar. Items on the consent calendar are matters that are considered routine and non-controversial. shouldn't require discussion and are expected to have unanimous support. Um, Are there any members of the public who would like to address any of the items on the consent calendar? Seeing none, do we have a motion or? Mr. Mayor. |
| 00:15:15.01 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:15:15.03 | Councilmember Ford | Mr. Mayor. |
| 00:15:15.74 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:15:15.75 | Councilmember Ford | Thank you. |
| 00:15:16.65 | Mayor Kelly | First? I think you were first. |
| 00:15:17.93 | Councilmember Ford | Okay. I would like to pull items B and items E. for B&E. |
| 00:15:30.53 | Mayor Kelly | of the approval changes to the community schedule? |
| 00:15:33.32 | Councilmember Ford | Yes, and then the Omit and Finance Committee meetings, number four. |
| 00:15:38.43 | Mayor Kelly | The notes to the committee. Any other? |
| 00:15:43.07 | Unknown | you |
| 00:15:43.12 | Mayor Kelly | Mr. Mayor? |
| 00:15:43.14 | Unknown | Mr. Mayor? |
| 00:15:43.73 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:15:44.66 | Unknown | Oh, I'm sorry. |
| 00:15:45.27 | Unknown | Oh, I'm sorry. |
| 00:15:46.97 | Unknown | She was next. |
| 00:15:48.78 | Unknown | Mr. Mayor, I would like to pull item 4A and item 4H. |
| 00:15:58.14 | Mayor Kelly | OK, that leaves a very skinny consent calendar. I'm going to take these to the end of 7, I guess, right? Is that where they would go? Mary? Yeah. But if time doesn't permit, then we'll have to reschedule them for the next meeting. So we can just list them as 7. |
| 00:16:21.29 | Mary Wagner | Mr. Mayor, I apologize. Do you want them as business items under six? |
| 00:16:25.06 | Mayor Kelly | Under six, well under, oh sorry, six, yes, correct. So it would be D, E, F, G, and H, right? Or five, one, two, three, four, five, right? D, E, F, G, and H, six. |
| 00:16:37.93 | Mary Wagner | In the same order that they're in, the consent code? |
| 00:16:39.42 | Mayor Kelly | Yes, in the same order they're in currently. |
| 00:16:44.23 | Unknown | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 00:16:46.54 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:16:47.28 | Unknown | So I ahead, Mr. Mayor. |
| 00:16:49.44 | Mayor Kelly | Yes. |
| 00:16:50.25 | Unknown | I had pulled item 4A and 4H. |
| 00:16:54.64 | Mayor Kelly | Correct. So we have A, B, E, G, and H are being pulled, and they become D, E, F, G, and H. Okay. All right. In that order. All right. Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor. |
| 00:16:55.20 | Unknown | So we have A, B, |
| 00:16:59.87 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 00:17:03.67 | Adam Politzer | Mr. Mayor, can I just ask for clarification, will the council require the staff stay some of these items? will require staff to be present. And I see two of them here in the front row with our Associate Planner and our Community Development Director, and that's probably related to Item H. I don't know if Councilmember Pfeiffer has a request for clarification or if you'd want them to go through the staff report. |
| 00:17:34.99 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:17:43.19 | Unknown | Mr. Mayor? I would be fine with moving H up to 6D, if it's all right with Council. |
| 00:17:52.98 | Unknown | Oh, hey, I think he asked, but what are you? |
| 00:17:56.40 | Mayor Kelly | Yeah, the degree of the, is this something we can dispose of quickly or is it going to be a longer period? |
| 00:18:03.96 | Unknown | I believe it's a longer conversation because it pertains to the ADU process and how it kind of dovetails in with the housing element process. So I feel that it's a council discussion and I'm sure the council members have different views they'd like to weigh in. |
| 00:18:26.05 | Mayor Kelly | What was the action needed on? Is there action needed on? Thank you. |
| 00:18:31.47 | Unknown | It refers, I'm sorry Mr. Mayor. No, I was asking the city manager. |
| 00:18:31.49 | Mayor Kelly | It really is. No, I was asking the city manager, please. Is there action required on |
| 00:18:35.18 | Adam Politzer | Thank you. |
| 00:18:39.08 | Mayor Kelly | H. |
| 00:18:40.87 | Adam Politzer | Please, everyone. |
| 00:18:46.05 | Adam Politzer | Thank you. |
| 00:18:46.39 | Mayor Kelly | It's information only, so we can easily move it to the next meeting and put it at the front of the next meeting. |
| 00:18:48.01 | Adam Politzer | We can easily move it to the next. |
| 00:18:53.04 | Mayor Kelly | Is that okay? |
| 00:18:54.37 | Adam Politzer | Yeah, I'm confirming with staff. There's otherwise... |
| 00:18:57.14 | Mayor Kelly | Because otherwise, yeah. Okay. All right. So let's take H out entirely and move it to the next meeting. It will be the first business item for the next meeting. |
| 00:18:58.70 | Michael Racks | Okay. |
| 00:19:06.76 | Unknown | Is that okay? Is that a problem with this state? |
| 00:19:10.32 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 00:19:10.43 | Unknown | Thank you. . |
| 00:19:12.15 | Mayor Kelly | Okay? you |
| 00:19:12.88 | Unknown | And Mr. Mayor, just to clarify? Yes. I just want to clarify that by moving it to the next meeting, that next meeting will not be the joint. |
| 00:19:13.42 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:19:13.44 | Mayor Kelly | is |
| 00:19:21.38 | Unknown | Planning Commission and okay. Okay. Thank you. |
| 00:19:23.78 | Mayor Kelly | Okay, thank you. Just checking. Regular scheduled city council meeting. |
| 00:19:26.18 | Unknown | Okay, thank you. |
| 00:19:29.08 | Mayor Kelly | All right, so then we have CD F, do I have a motion to approve CDF? |
| 00:19:35.31 | Councilmember Ford | And I. |
| 00:19:36.66 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 00:19:36.76 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 00:19:36.78 | Mayor Kelly | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 00:19:36.86 | Mayor Kelly | We'll see. |
| 00:19:37.47 | Mayor Kelly | Oh, I'm sorry, I put a line through that. All right. |
| 00:19:40.57 | Unknown | I'm not. |
| 00:19:40.64 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 00:19:40.74 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:19:40.93 | Mayor Kelly | All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? |
| 00:19:42.21 | Unknown | I'm sorry. |
| 00:19:42.28 | Councilmember Ford | Bye. |
| 00:19:42.29 | Unknown | Bye. |
| 00:19:42.75 | Councilmember Ford | Thank you. |
| 00:19:45.03 | Mayor Kelly | All right, so let's move on to public hearings. There are none. Business items. |
| 00:19:53.18 | Mike Vance | I was hearing that after this consent calendar, I got a concern. |
| 00:19:57.80 | Mayor Kelly | Well, Mike, actually, |
| 00:20:02.63 | Unknown | I can take your public comment on it, yeah. |
| 00:20:03.89 | Mayor Kelly | I guess I can take your public comment on it. |
| 00:20:05.80 | Unknown | you |
| 00:20:05.88 | Mike Vance | My concern is about the bathroom in downtown. You pull it out. Somebody pull it out. No. No. |
| 00:20:09.97 | Mayor Kelly | That's coming. |
| 00:20:12.31 | Unknown | I don't know. Yeah. No. |
| 00:20:16.99 | Mike Vance | Thank you. |
| 00:20:17.97 | Unknown | No. |
| 00:20:19.03 | Councilmember Ford | Thank you. |
| 00:20:19.67 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:20:19.69 | Councilmember Ford | Oh, wait a minute. Somebody did pull it out. Yes, he did. Jonathan. Jonathan told you. |
| 00:20:20.53 | Unknown | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 00:20:20.73 | Mike Vance | Wait a minute. |
| 00:20:21.29 | Unknown | Somebody did pull it. |
| 00:20:22.03 | Unknown | Yes, he did. |
| 00:20:24.87 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:20:24.89 | Unknown | Jonathan Wilson. Thank you. Not at. Yeah. |
| 00:20:35.08 | Mayor Kelly | No, F did not, F. That's the restaurant. There's one after it, though. They're both related. |
| 00:20:43.72 | Mike Vance | Are you going to have this question on the album? |
| 00:20:45.31 | Mayor Kelly | Yes. |
| 00:20:48.92 | Mayor Kelly | All right. It won't go down the drain. Item 6A. |
| 00:20:54.28 | Mayor Kelly | Item 6A, received study and analysis of the City of Social Legal CalPERS pension plans 2010 actuarial reports. Charlie Francis. |
| 00:20:58.55 | Mayor Kelly | Yes. |
| 00:21:02.03 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | you |
| 00:21:02.10 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 00:21:02.65 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | Good evening, Mr. Mayor, members of the City Council. This is the time of the year where CalPERS does their annual actuarial evaluation as of June 30, 2010. It may sound a little strange. They do the actuarial evaluation a year behind. We received a report in November. We posted it on the website. And then we invite |
| 00:21:12.56 | Unknown | I'm sorry. |
| 00:21:27.42 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | John Bartell, President of Bartell & Associates, to go through that report for us and tell us any of the results and implications. In your staff report were two reports, the executive summary and the actual PowerPoint that's going to be used tonight. They were both marked draft. They are indeed the same as the final form, and I'll leave the final form with the city clerk and she can distribute it to you in your mailboxes afterwards. I also have copies for members of the public and I'll leave them here on the front table if anyone in the public wants to follow along. So with that introduction, Mr. Bartel will walk through the actuarial evaluation and I'll pull up the PowerPoint presentation for you. |
| 00:22:20.97 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | There we go. I'll get it. Which one's Bartell? |
| 00:22:30.40 | John Bartell (Actuary) | I've been asked that a lot, just so you know. |
| 00:22:32.97 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:22:32.98 | Unknown | Ha ha ha ha ha. |
| 00:22:34.38 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | you |
| 00:22:34.47 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:22:34.50 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | . |
| 00:22:34.59 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:22:34.86 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | Thank you. |
| 00:22:34.89 | Unknown | . |
| 00:22:35.24 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | . |
| 00:22:35.35 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:22:39.24 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | And let's see. John, you just have to click here. Thank you. |
| 00:22:44.56 | John Bartell (Actuary) | I can do it. I'll take this, Tim. |
| 00:22:49.84 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:23:04.93 | John Bartell (Actuary) | So while the copies are being passed out, let me maybe say what I hope I've said to you in the past, and that is it's a great honor to really speak to you all. It always is to speak to you folks or to other councils. And maybe what I will also do is, in the interest of probably getting myself in serious trouble here, I would encourage you all to ask questions as we go. So please interrupt me. It will actually make it a little bit easier to answer the questions. |
| 00:23:42.56 | Mayor Kelly | election. |
| 00:23:48.41 | Mayor Kelly | I would only ask that they address me and then they can address you. Fair enough. Thank you. |
| 00:23:48.48 | John Bartell (Actuary) | . I love you. Awesome. that they... Fair enough. Thank you. Great. What I will say is... Relative to the CalPERS pension plans, there is not much that is significantly different from what we've talked about in the past. So while I'm not expecting you all to remember what I said before, to the extent that you do, I don't think you'll hear anything particularly different. So with that, I'm going to skip over terminology and really point to slides three. And to the extent that you have slide four, you can kind of look at those. This is the CalPERS investment return. We are in what I think of as a relatively volatile investment environment. CalPERS investments, you can see terrific investment return in the mid to late 90s, less than terrific through the dot-com bust, if you will. Very good return for the next four years. And then 2008, 2009, these are June 30 fiscal year ends. Very very bad investment return, June 30, 2009 in particular. And then two very good years of investment return, sort of really revolving around CalPERS assumed rate of return of seven and three quarters. And your contribution rates are really not directly related to the market value rate of return. They really are based on a smooth market value rate of return. The one very quick comment I'll make about slide four is, People look at the investment return at June 3011, positive 20.7%, and then they look at the crummy return at June 3009, minus 24, and people have a tendency to say, well, gee, a minus 24, a plus 20, we've made up for the losses. Unfortunately, those pesky actuaries have an assumed rate of return of 7.75, quarters, and so really at June 30.09, the loss was about 32%, and the gain at June 30.09, about 13%. So unfortunately, those two don't really offset each other. So one of the things I will sort of draw your attention to, this is really not how the calculations work, but if you think of it, you'll really be there. If you look at the rate of return and just add them together for the last four years, you get an unrecognized losses of about 26%. So there's a long way to go. And the one comment that I'll make to you is either that 26% will be made up by future very good investment return, and the current year doesn't look like it's going to contribute positively to that, or higher contribution rates. It's really going to be one of the other. The advantage that you all have is that you're in a risk pool, so your volatility is almost exclusively related to the market return. So if you take a look at slide five, you really see the detail of your contribution rate. And I'll just kind of point out the top two items. They are risk pool based. This happens to be the city's non-safety risk pool miscellaneous plan. The normal cost rate, the value of the basic benefits that are in the risk pool is about 8.7, 8.8 percent, very little change from one year to the next. And then you really see the risk pool's payment on the risk pool's unfunded liability. Right now, CalPERS does not allocate that unfunded liability to each of the members of the agencies. We think there will be an accounting requirement that will require them to do so, so you should keep your eyes peeled within the next year or two for them to tell you specifically what the dollar unfunded liability would be for the in the city relative to its portion of the risk pool's unfunded liability. Just not available at this time, but at some point in time we think they're going to require that or they will be required to do that. And then you all have what are referred to as class one benefits. Those are benefits that are valuable enough that CalPERS is going to charge you something over and above the risk pool rates so you have highest year and post-retirement survivor allowance. Those add about one and a half percent to your contribution rate and then what I think is an issue you want to seriously think about not just for the miscellaneous plan, but for both fire and police, is the amortization of the side funds. So what that is, just to refresh your memory, is when you all join the risk pool as part of the June 3003 evaluation, your unfunded liability at that point in time was sort of frozen, set aside. You all are charged for that at a fixed rate of return, fixed interest rate of 7 3 quarters. Unless CalPERS changes their methodology, we're not expecting that to happen. But if they don't change the methodology, then you're really, it's no different than having borrowed money at seven and three quarters. So paying that off to the extent that you could would be a prudent thing, a fiscally prudent thing to do. If you look at the change in the contribution rate, the big change in the rate is really the payment on the risk pools amortization. That is almost all related to investment losses. |
| 00:30:12.22 | Councilmember Ford | Mr. Mayor? Yes. If I may ask a question. Regarding the risk pool, have you any idea of the dollar amount? You personally, I mean, can you give us maybe an estimate of that? |
| 00:30:15.39 | John Bartell (Actuary) | Thank you. |
| 00:30:15.51 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:30:27.31 | John Bartell (Actuary) | of your current unfunded liability, your allocated portion? |
| 00:30:31.46 | Councilmember Ford | Thank you. that you're talking about, the 4%, back on the last screen. |
| 00:30:35.64 | John Bartell (Actuary) | Hang on. Let's go to, let's see if I can do this. |
| 00:30:39.00 | Councilmember Ford | if I can do this. So they're not talking about it, the point four. the risk pools payment. |
| 00:30:46.83 | John Bartell (Actuary) | Yeah. |
| 00:30:47.10 | Councilmember Ford | you mentioned that at some point |
| 00:30:52.21 | John Bartell (Actuary) | Yeah, so let's go back. |
| 00:30:53.02 | Councilmember Ford | Let's go back. It's back to the other screen, I think. One more bit. |
| 00:30:55.59 | John Bartell (Actuary) | Yeah. Yeah. |
| 00:30:57.17 | Councilmember Ford | Thank you. Yeah. Right. At some point, we would be, you suspect that we would be required to pay that amount. |
| 00:31:04.55 | John Bartell (Actuary) | No, yeah, so let's be clear here. Here is what I hope I said. |
| 00:31:06.46 | Councilmember Ford | OK. Thank you. |
| 00:31:09.43 | Unknown | Okay. |
| 00:31:10.19 | John Bartell (Actuary) | Right now, CalPERS does not tell you your allocated portion of the total unfunded liability for the risk pool. What they do is tell you what your contribution rate is. So everything associated with the risk pool for the city is contribution rate based. There is no connection between what your unfunded liability is as part of the risk pool. and your contribution rate. And so we believe that the accounting standards will require CalPERS to tell you in the future what your allocated portion of the unfunded liability is. |
| 00:31:41.17 | Unknown | And so. |
| 00:31:52.69 | Councilmember Ford | funded liability is. So this will be the new GASB standard? Exactly. And when do you think those will be required? |
| 00:31:55.85 | John Bartell (Actuary) | Exactly. Well, recall. We think, well, first of all, we believe they're going to be final before the end of June. That's number one. We don't think you will have to disclose the information relative to that. probably until you're 13, 14. fiscal year, probably June 30, 14. Until we see the final standard, I don't think we know. It will not surprise me. as part of the June 3011 valuation if CalPERS will begin to give you the information just to sort of prepare you for the order of magnitude of that number. |
| 00:32:37.41 | Councilmember Ford | I see. |
| 00:32:39.08 | John Bartell (Actuary) | Okay. |
| 00:32:39.32 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Mayor, may I ask a question? Thank you. |
| 00:32:42.69 | Mayor Kelly | Okay. |
| 00:32:44.60 | Unknown | Actually, I have three questions. |
| 00:32:46.19 | Mayor Kelly | Well, it would really be good, I think, to not have so many questions that we lose the continuity of your presentation. |
| 00:32:55.01 | John Bartell (Actuary) | Yeah, what you will hear me say is I'll absolutely agree with that. If the questions are on... the current slides, Absolutely interrupt me. So I don't pretend to know what the question is, so I almost don't know how to answer your question. Right. Mr. Mayor, |
| 00:33:13.37 | Unknown | Mr. Mayor, I would be happy to hold my questions until later. I mean, after he's done. I think if there's a clarification on the... |
| 00:33:19.52 | Mayor Kelly | I think if there's a clarification on a slide item that you don't understand, that's a good one to ask. If it's a more philosophical question, say what the last one. |
| 00:33:27.60 | John Bartell (Actuary) | I should have made that clear early on, but that's absolutely right. |
| 00:33:31.46 | Mayor Kelly | I want to be able to get the continuity of the report. |
| 00:33:33.07 | John Bartell (Actuary) | Yeah. Ah So we have projected the city's contribution rates based on some volatility or expected return. Now, what I will tell you is these are miscellaneous contribution rates. Do not include any member contribution rate. So these are employer rates only. And what you see here is if CalPERS meets the assumed rate of return of 7 3 quarters, then we are expecting your contribution rates to very modestly increase. If investment return is poor, we're expecting the contribution rates to go up relatively steeply. And if investment return is good, we're expecting rates to very modestly, very, very modestly decline. Now, let me point one very important thing. We think it is equally likely that the investment return will be poor or good. So even though it is equally likely that you might get to either one of those points, the weight associated with those is not the same, meaning that poor investment return has more pain associated with it then the good investment return has a positive reduction in the rate. So your volatility is downside volatility here. if This is all based on the 50% confidence level that CalPERS rate of return will be 7.75. There are a fair number of folks who don't believe that that is a particularly 50% confidence level expected event. And so if the expected return should be below 7 3 quarters, then these numbers really get higher. So if you're sitting and looking at budgeting, I actually think over the next few years, the budget number should probably be between those top two lines. And you'll see a little more dramatic when we get to the safety plans. And the next two slides talk about the miscellaneous side fund. The miscellaneous side fund smaller than either the fire police. You're sitting at about $415,000. as of June 30, 2012. So if you wrote CalPERS a check on June 30, 2012 for $415,000, your contribution rate would drop by the side fund payment of 1.3%. And then the police safety plan, your contribution rate for $11, $12, $38.5. 37.9 for 12.13, you can see the normal cost rate, the risk pools, amortization of the unfunded liability not changing very much. Um, your your additional cost for the class one benefits, final average compensation, highest year if you will, and post retirement survivor allowance about 2.7%. And the payment on the side fund 15%. your The reduction in the contribution is really due to the reduction in the payment on the side fund as a percentage of pay. The dollar amount really didn't go down. It's just that your payroll was a little bit higher than CalPERS thought it was going to be for police safety. Again, your contribution rates, the volatility really rests with poor investment return. So you should not be surprised if your contribution rate approaches or exceeds 40% of pay. And depending upon the investment return, it certainly could be more adverse than that. Similarly, your side fund for the police safety is $2.9 million at June 30-12. Again, not suggesting you have $2.9 million lying around, but if you paid that off, your contribution for police safety would drop by 15.1% of pay. So a very big impact on the contribution. Similarly for fire safety, normal cost rate, the fire safety is really in the same risk pool. Really the only difference is the extent of the side fund relative to the fire. It's a smaller contribution, smaller dollar amount. But what you really see is very, very similar projection of the contribution rate, lower because of the lower side fund payment. Side fund for FIRE, $1.4 million, reduction in the contribution rate about 8.5% of pay. So I could probably sit up here and talk for as long as you all would tolerate. My recommendation is that we sort of stop there and open it up for questions. |
| 00:39:17.55 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:39:17.94 | Unknown | Mr. Mayor? I have three questions. They're kind of related depending on his answer. If I can continue through that. |
| 00:39:22.92 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:39:25.32 | Unknown | So we've been told that an actuarial analysis has been done with respect to the fires, if you're on this slide. Can you tell us the... unfunded pension liability in terms of dollars for our soft suit of firefighters before annexation and after annexation. |
| 00:39:46.53 | John Bartell (Actuary) | So in the interest of full disclosure, I just came prepared to talk about this, and I just don't have any information on that. |
| 00:39:59.94 | Unknown | So I ask, of course, because with annexation, our firefighters will move from CalPERS and that unfunded pension liability at that point will be capped. So my next question. is can the CalPERS discount rate for our Sausalito firefighters' unfunded pension liability can that discount rate changed. after annexation, can it go up or down? |
| 00:40:28.48 | John Bartell (Actuary) | So do you mind if I change your question a little bit? And to the extent that I am changing it and changing its point, let me tell you the question I believe I can answer. Um, because I'm just not, I don't have anything relative to the annexation. |
| 00:40:44.66 | Mayor Kelly | to physically. Taxation. |
| 00:40:46.45 | John Bartell (Actuary) | Let me clarify. |
| 00:40:47.50 | Mayor Kelly | The annexation is not what we're talking about tonight. We're talking about the CalPERS evaluation that you have done relative to our general fund and to pension payments currently being made by our three different businesses. |
| 00:41:00.12 | John Bartell (Actuary) | And that's exactly the way I was gonna answer that question. |
| 00:41:00.59 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. to answer that question. So a generic answer is probably what would be helpful. |
| 00:41:04.64 | John Bartell (Actuary) | Yeah, there you go. And so really the question of as long as you have benefits and liabilities and assets sitting with CalPERS. for any of your plans? CalPERS has the ability to change the discount rate. you should expect. that CalPERS will be revisiting that issue. That would have an impact on the numbers that we've put up here. Whether it's miscellaneous police or fire, we believe. We don't know. We believe. that CalPERS Actuary once again is going to recommend a decrease in the expected return. This is not quite as strong as believe, but we think. that He's going to recommend a 7 1⁄4? He recommended 7 1⁄2 before? And the CalPERS board said, thank you very much, no. And we think he will likely recommend 7 1⁄4, which tells me if he does, the CalPERS board will probably reduce from 7 3⁄4 to 7 1⁄2. Now, until we really get a little closer to that, I don't think I have a high degree of confidence that that's going to be the case. I think that's going to be the case. That's my expectation of what will play out, though. |
| 00:42:32.78 | Unknown | So Mr. Mayor, if I ask my Change my second question. Yes. |
| 00:42:37.42 | Mayor Kelly | Just keep it on point with the pensions here and not add into it. |
| 00:42:40.81 | Unknown | Okay, well, so to keep it on point, if our firefighters were annexed and our CalPERS was capped and it was staying here with the city, so I believe it is on point. |
| 00:42:41.84 | Mayor Kelly | So, |
| 00:42:52.95 | Unknown | because we're still responsible for it here in Sausaludo, the unfunded pension liability of our firefighters. then you're saying, is it correct then that CalPERS could change that discount rate Either way, up or down. |
| 00:43:07.22 | John Bartell (Actuary) | My answer to that is irrespective of annexation, it would be the same whether you were talking about annexation or not. CalPERS, that money is sitting there. It's invested by CalPERS. They're the ones who, by the California Constitution, have the responsibility for investing and setting assumptions. So, yes. |
| 00:43:35.81 | Unknown | Even though it's capped or it's stagnant, it can still change. |
| 00:43:42.19 | John Bartell (Actuary) | Well, so important to make sure that I'm understanding the question. You would hear me say, the discount rate being used is independent of the benefit that is being valued. So whether a benefit is or is not capped, is or is not Taking into account future accruals, discount rates can change. That's correct. |
| 00:44:09.39 | Unknown | That's correct. Thank you. And my third question then, was If the, well, no, that second question was a clarification. So if the discount rate then went down, what would that impact be? |
| 00:44:16.61 | John Bartell (Actuary) | question. |
| 00:44:16.97 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:44:25.61 | John Bartell (Actuary) | Well, so here's the crummy answer to that question. We think I can only answer it relative to the numbers that I've given you because that's what I have in my head. So we think that would likely mean your miscellaneous contribution rate would go up 2 to 2.5 percentage points for every 25 basis point drop in the discount rate. and your safety contribution rate would likely go up somewhere in the neighborhood of three to four percentage points. Those are very rough numbers. I'm a conservative guy, so that might be, those might be a little conservative in terms of what the numbers are. So I haven't really done that calculation. We haven't done that analysis for you all. That's an off the top of my head response. |
| 00:45:24.43 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Yeah. |
| 00:45:27.44 | Unknown | So I'm getting a little turned around here. So just to clarify, and whether you answer this to Charlie. The obligations that the city has under its pension system right now With CalPERS. Thank you. |
| 00:45:39.26 | Unknown | or |
| 00:45:39.57 | Unknown | are the cities regardless of whatever happens from here going forward. the obligations that we've incurred to date. in terms of the fire, police, miscellaneous, the obligations are the obligations of the city. |
| 00:45:49.37 | Peter Van Meter | Please, sir. |
| 00:45:55.20 | John Bartell (Actuary) | Yeah, I'd have trouble answering anything other than yes. |
| 00:45:55.23 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 00:46:00.39 | Unknown | So I'm not quite sure why we're getting into debating the details of that, but those, you incur an obligation, you've incurred the obligation. Right. |
| 00:46:10.35 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. Any questions? Carolyn, any questions? |
| 00:46:17.15 | Councilmember Ford | You know, I did not have a copy of your... |
| 00:46:21.37 | Unknown | those kids |
| 00:46:22.41 | Councilmember Ford | And so, He's not finished. He's just pausing. |
| 00:46:26.78 | Unknown | He's not finished. |
| 00:46:27.83 | Unknown | This is positive. |
| 00:46:29.72 | Councilmember Ford | Is he just closing? |
| 00:46:30.55 | Unknown | Yeah, he's just letting it continue. |
| 00:46:33.30 | Councilmember Ford | Oh, I thought you missed it. |
| 00:46:34.94 | John Bartell (Actuary) | Well, no, I'm happy to keep going, but that really was the bulk of my, I really had gotten to the point where that was really the bulk of the presentation. |
| 00:46:40.15 | Unknown | That's the documentation. of the presentation. So do you have questions? |
| 00:46:46.43 | Unknown | So, |
| 00:46:46.48 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 00:46:46.82 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:46:47.09 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:46:47.14 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:46:47.15 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:46:47.22 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:46:47.64 | Unknown | you |
| 00:46:47.71 | Unknown | I do. No. |
| 00:46:49.57 | Mayor Kelly | I have just a question. Thank you. Thank you. I think it was a year ago, two years ago, CalPERS came here. A lady from CalPERS came here. And I asked her, how much was our unfunded liability? And she said, I cannot tell you. And then I asked her, well, could I get you to tell me? And she said, No, we don't do that for you. And then I pressed her further and she said, well, there is one way. Thank you. |
| 00:47:15.96 | John Bartell (Actuary) | Yes. |
| 00:47:16.30 | Mayor Kelly | If you would agree to withdraw, if you would file a notice for withdrawal from our CalPERS fund, we would be forced to give you an actuarial presentation on your unfunded liability. Yes. That still remains the same situation at CalPERS. |
| 00:47:23.60 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:47:23.64 | John Bartell (Actuary) | Thank you. |
| 00:47:23.65 | Unknown | you |
| 00:47:27.94 | John Bartell (Actuary) | Yes. |
| 00:47:28.34 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:47:31.57 | John Bartell (Actuary) | Yeah, so let me give you maybe a little longer answer than you probably were hoping for. There are If you take a step back and forget for a moment that CalPERS is doing your calculations, There are two ways to look at your unfunded liability. One is a detailed calculation. which for all of your members would calculate the actuarial liability. It would then be compared to your allocated assets and that is a calculation that CalPERS have the ability to do. Their position is they will not do it, just so you know. That's way number one to do the calculation. Way number two, which is a very simple calculation, which is which says, forget about the detail of how you fit into the pool. Look at how you're currently being charged. You're currently being charged based on your payroll relative to the unfunded liability. So we could easily, you could look at, I could explain to Charlie how he could do that calculation. It is not a complicated calculation. It's a matter of looking at your payroll. divided by the total risk pool payroll, multiplied times the unfunded liability, that will give you an approximation relative to your contribution of your unfunded liability. Now, will that match the detailed calculation? No. It, in fact, could be significantly different. If you had a lot of retirees and a low payroll, you get a very different answer than if you have a large payroll and very few answers. Those two detailed calculations give you very, very different answers in those. I didn't do that calculation, so I'm not prepared to tell you what that number is. But you could answer the second question. So now let's go back to CalPERS position. CalPERS, when they say they cannot tell you, what they're saying is they will not give you the answer to the first one. Unless you go to them and say, we want you to believe we're going to terminate, and then they will give you the answer to that question, you don't have to follow through on that termination. but you still have to have a council action that tells CalPERS you're going to terminate, And then they will do that calculation for you. Now what I will also tell you is that has other things associated with it. And so I'm not a... how do I say this? That's not a path that I would recommend that you go down. When the Gatsby accounting standard becomes mandatory, CalPERS will have to pick one of those two methods. I don't pretend to know which one they will pick. I actually think the second one is the most logical because it is absolutely related to what you are contributing. And so I think that's a better way to look at it. not everybody agrees So the answer, that's a very long-winded answer to your question of yes. That really is the only way to get the answer to A, to the first one, but the answer to the second one is very readily attainable. Thank you. |
| 00:51:12.85 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 00:51:12.90 | John Bartell (Actuary) | THANK YOU. |
| 00:51:12.97 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you very much. Mr. Mayor. Wait. Charlie Worsett. A couple points on that. |
| 00:51:17.96 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | Well, the first point is the copies of this are in the agenda package. They're just marked draft. But the draft is the same as the final. |
| 00:51:28.32 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:51:28.39 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | The second thing is we did indeed tell CalPERS that we were going to withdraw from CalPERS. I have copies of all the correspondence. And at the end of a lengthy debate with them, they told me they will not give it to us anyway. Anyway. And I do have all that in writing. The third part is, yes, the city has done the simple calculation. We've done it every year since I've been here. I ran those, not precise numbers, but the methodology of my calculation by Mr. Bartel's firm. And that's where I got the idea on how to do it, in fact. So we can do that again. And we have done it in all of our analyses. |
| 00:51:45.47 | Mayor Kelly | Anyway. |
| 00:52:16.22 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 00:52:16.59 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | Thank you. |
| 00:52:17.87 | Councilmember Ford | Mr. Mayor I do have two questions. |
| 00:52:17.89 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | THE FAMILY. |
| 00:52:23.32 | Councilmember Ford | maybe three I notice in the staff report that was mentioned at least if you're talking about Governor Brown's 12-point plan and how that might affect us Are you, did you come prepared to do that tonight? |
| 00:52:39.00 | John Bartell (Actuary) | Well, I- I can give you a very, I'm certainly familiar with the Governor's 12-Point Plan. I can give you a very general answer to that question. One of the, so I can do it relatively quickly, I believe. Um, One comment that I will make about the 12-point plan is there is a lot of meat that is really not there. There are a lot of details that are not really there and will have to be pulled out, if you will. So I think there really is one very big impact, and that is, he has a, an item that says, it's a little ambiguous on the language that he's using, but I believe the intent is that the member contribution rate must go to 50% of the total normal cost. for your non-safety plan. That's not a big deal. It changes the member contribution rate very, very slightly. For your safety plans, it likely will increase your member contribution rate from about 9% to approaching 14%, 15%. There are other components in there that are sort of non-actuarial in nature, not letting felons get a pension benefit, talking about disability and that sort of thing. But I actually think that member contribution rate piece will have an impact on the city and current employees to the extent that it really is passed. Our expectation is, I don't think we know for sure, our expectation is that the, it is unlikely that the California legislature will pass the a version of the governor's 12-point plan. I think it is likely that the governor will put some meat on it and will introduce it as a ballot initiative, and it's that meat that will really determine how big of an impact it's going to have. Now, the piece that I've absolutely ignored, I've said nothing about, is the piece where he is talking about what's referred to as a hybrid plan for new employees only, which is expected to be a modest defined benefit with a modest defined contribution plan. But until we really know what plan, it's hard to really even comment on that. |
| 00:55:44.34 | Councilmember Ford | Sure, sure, sure. In regard to... moving the governor's plan forward since something, you know, something obviously needs to be done and I think people realize that. Would you find it, would you recommend that cities and counties endorse that plan. |
| 00:56:10.47 | John Bartell (Actuary) | Here would be my recommendation. |
| 00:56:14.20 | Councilmember Ford | Okay. |
| 00:56:14.63 | John Bartell (Actuary) | I don't pretend to know whether this is a practical recommendation or not. |
| 00:56:19.77 | Unknown | Okay. |
| 00:56:20.13 | John Bartell (Actuary) | but I'm, an actuary, I can recommend it's up to you all to decide whether or not you're going to do it. My recommendation really is that you all go to the governor and say, we'd like to work with you to come up with adding the meat to that. We'd like to be part of that process. There are... You know, it's fascinating. I've worked with public agencies in California for a long time now. And historically, what I have always heard is, we want local control, we want local control, we want local control. And I'd be surprised if you all would feel differently. Well, what the governor's plan does is take some of that local control away relative to negotiating what the pension benefits are. So I have heard from client after client after client, we want local control, but Maybe somebody needs to protect us from ourselves. And so that is. new constant same benefit formula for all employees going forward sort of falls under that category. So I think the question you all should ask yourselves is, Where do you fall in that camp? And to the extent that you think that, gee, maybe around the state, everybody hired after a certain date ought to have a formula that's the same, it ought to be reasonable, then I think what you do is pick up the phone or however you get the governor's office to respond and say, we'd like to participate. |
| 00:57:58.29 | Councilmember Ford | Okay. One last question, and that is, does your firm provide workshops, sit down with city councils, in other words, and talk about how, in detail, how they might refine and come up with some plans? |
| 00:58:16.46 | John Bartell (Actuary) | Thank you. We, we, we, um... We have done council workshops before. We have typically limited those to one of really three topics. Topic number one is, you know, what is your unfunded liability? Where are your contribution rates going to go? That's sort of what we have here, if you will. Number two is, what do, you know, the, you know, |
| 00:58:32.87 | Unknown | Top head. |
| 00:58:38.74 | Unknown | you Thank you. |
| 00:58:49.62 | John Bartell (Actuary) | The background of council members varies a lot. And so what I'll call CalPERS 101, how are the benefits calculated? What does final average compensation mean? Is there pensions spiking? All of that. What are the benefits? And then sort of category number three falls under is, |
| 00:58:52.95 | Unknown | Thank you. AND, |
| 00:59:10.87 | John Bartell (Actuary) | you know, general pension reform. What should you think about in terms of reform? What do you have the ability to do? What do you not have the ability to do? That could be generic, could fall under what you're talking about, but it certainly would fall in the realm of things that we enjoy doing. Okay. |
| 00:59:36.22 | Councilmember Ford | Okay, the general, my specific question, general pension reform, could you address our city's specific problems with us and help us in terms of looking outwards to our budgeting, that sort of thing? Yeah. |
| 00:59:41.65 | John Bartell (Actuary) | Yes. |
| 00:59:41.97 | Unknown | Our city. Thank you. Thanks. |
| 00:59:50.26 | John Bartell (Actuary) | Yeah. Now let me give you, so we believe the answer to that is yes. We have some, we've already given the city some of that information. And let me give you the one, |
| 00:59:54.56 | Councilmember Ford | Okay. |
| 01:00:01.75 | John Bartell (Actuary) | piece of, you will think of this as very, very bad news. There is, you know, right now we are in a situation where California is what's referred to as a vested rights state, individual vested rights. What that means is you do not have the ability, unless the attorneys tell me, something different than what historically they've told me, to change the benefits, even future benefit accruals for current employees. So that means your pension reform Um, arrows in your quiver. |
| 01:00:38.36 | Unknown | Uh-huh. |
| 01:00:38.89 | John Bartell (Actuary) | are related to future, what are you going to provide future employees? Except |
| 01:00:44.93 | Councilmember Ford | Except can't we, excuse me. |
| 01:00:46.62 | John Bartell (Actuary) | Go ahead. |
| 01:00:47.04 | Councilmember Ford | you Can't we look at employee contributions and aren't there some things we can look at that would benefit us, particularly if we're looking at a 40% increase in our payments? |
| 01:00:47.63 | John Bartell (Actuary) | No. |
| 01:00:52.71 | John Bartell (Actuary) | Yeah. |
| 01:00:52.96 | Dorothy Gibson | Yeah. |
| 01:00:53.03 | John Bartell (Actuary) | Absolutely. |
| 01:01:00.88 | John Bartell (Actuary) | Yes. Now, your, but that, and where that gets to is who pays for the benefit, not what the benefit is. That's absolutely right. That's your flexibility. And if you Just put in a second tier, put in a new benefit for people being hired in the future. Your budget savings are very, very long, a long way out. |
| 01:01:25.77 | Councilmember Ford | Yeah, that would be long term. That's right. Sure. |
| 01:01:25.78 | John Bartell (Actuary) | Yeah. Thank you. |
| 01:01:27.57 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 01:01:27.71 | John Bartell (Actuary) | Thank you. |
| 01:01:27.84 | Unknown | Sure. Thank you. Yeah, you actually came to us. We hired you. this past year to come and you gave us that exact presentation. That's right. That's exactly right. To this same group of people that somehow we've managed to forget. So that you have been here and you have given us that third level of, here's your alternative. Yes. And basically the two-tiered system saved you nothing, lest everybody left and you all of a sudden ended up with the workforce. |
| 01:01:34.31 | Councilmember Ford | Thank you. |
| 01:01:34.44 | Unknown | THE FAMILY. |
| 01:01:35.67 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:01:35.69 | John Bartell (Actuary) | Thank you. |
| 01:01:35.71 | Unknown | That's it. |
| 01:01:35.89 | John Bartell (Actuary) | Trotation, right. |
| 01:01:38.32 | Unknown | with some help. |
| 01:01:44.45 | Unknown | Here's the question. |
| 01:01:44.65 | Unknown | You're old. I'm sorry. |
| 01:01:45.55 | John Bartell (Actuary) | Yes. |
| 01:01:52.55 | John Bartell (Actuary) | That's right. And your big bang for your buck is exactly what you said, which is asking employees to pay more. |
| 01:02:00.31 | Councilmember Ford | Yeah. Mr. Newell. And that's the only one. Missing three-month. |
| 01:02:03.35 | John Bartell (Actuary) | The only one that I am aware of. You know, the attorneys need to tell me I'm wrong before I would give you another option. |
| 01:02:09.39 | Councilmember Ford | Okay. I'm sorry. |
| 01:02:10.91 | Unknown | Okay, great. |
| 01:02:11.40 | Councilmember Ford | Thank you. |
| 01:02:11.80 | Unknown | Thank you. Mr. Mayor, I do have another question. Thank you. So you just said that earlier that we could get an actuarial analysis of the unfunded pension liability of our firefighters in two ways. One is going through CalPERS and asking CalPERS, and the other is the simple kind of estimation calculation calculation. correct |
| 01:02:39.36 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 01:02:39.83 | Unknown | Okay. And isn't it so It's my understanding that in order to get that first version, which is the accurate from CalPERS. And when I forget her name, she was very good. She presented the actuarial overview to us from CalPERS. Barbara, I think. Barbara Ware. Barbara Ware. That's right. And I was the one actually who asked her and confirmed that in order to get that first, that actual dollar amount, that the council would actually have to vote to withdraw from CalPERS. And then we would, CalPERS would be required, correct, to get that amount to us. But then we wouldn't necessarily have to withdraw from CalPERS. |
| 01:03:01.31 | Unknown | Barbara Ware. Barbara Ware. That's right. |
| 01:03:27.99 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. So |
| 01:03:28.31 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:03:28.36 | Mayor Kelly | that they wouldn't do. |
| 01:03:29.44 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:03:29.82 | John Bartell (Actuary) | Yeah, I think you just heard Charlie say they went to CalPERS, asked for that, and CalPERS said, no, thank you very much. |
| 01:03:39.67 | Unknown | Actually, I heard Charlie say, and actually maybe I could ask Charlie directly, because Charlie, it's my understanding you just said that you went to the, but this council never took a vote. And it's my understanding, having talked to other cities in California who have taken that vote, that CalPERS will indeed provide that unfunded pension liability dollar figure amount if the council formally votes to withdraw. And it doesn't mean that council has to withdraw. but they must take that vote, as opposed to a finance director just asking them for it. |
| 01:04:14.45 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | Yeah. The following the last presentation with Dr. Bartell, I had a long conversation with |
| 01:04:17.93 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:04:23.60 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | asked them, do I do indeed need city council port to apply for this? And they replied, no, I didn't. I just needed to submit a letter from the city on the city's letterhead requesting it. And I have all of this documentation, Council Member Pfeiffer. We then went through a long process with CalPERS, and at the end they said, no, we're in the process of changing and we will not provide you that information now. Now, if we asked again, Perhaps they could. To get to your second point, The city did the second calculation. on the fire pool, on the police pool, on the miscellaneous pool. I do it every year. So we do have an estimate of the city's unfunded liability, which we have provided to city council and the citizens when they requested it. |
| 01:05:18.25 | Unknown | I have not seen the unfunded pension liability of firefighters. I'm not talking about the pool. The firefighters. What is that, Charlie? |
| 01:05:22.44 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | Well, it was. Council Member Pfeiffer, it was in PowerPoint presentations that were presented to the city council. Okay, I'm going to interrupt. |
| 01:05:30.07 | Mayor Kelly | I'm going to interrupt you because if that exists, then I suggest you make an appointment with him and he'll show it to you. I'd be happy to. Great. All right, I'm going to close. Thank you very much for your presentation. It's most helpful as always. And I'd like to open for public comment. Members of the public would like to comment on this item. Three minutes, please. |
| 01:05:31.30 | Unknown | I have not seen that. |
| 01:05:36.85 | Unknown | I'd be happy to. |
| 01:05:54.55 | Peter Van Meter | All people interested in pension reform have characterized the governor's 12-point plan as baby steps. just getting started on big changes that are needed. To me, there's absolutely no downside risk by this city council taking a vote to endorse that plan. It doesn't mean you have to start forming committees and calling the governor, having meetings and all that. Simple steps. join others that have done it. Finally, your supervisors caved in you know, and did it, maybe with a little tongue in cheek here and there. but they did it. So this council is remiss by not at least taking that step. |
| 01:06:31.47 | Mayor Kelly | Well, we only heard about it one council meeting ago, and we are going to agendize it and vote on it. |
| 01:06:38.44 | Peter Van Meter | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 01:06:42.05 | Mayor Kelly | Any other members of the public care to comment on this item? All right, seeing none. |
| 01:06:48.05 | Unknown | This is information. |
| 01:06:50.93 | Mayor Kelly | Yeah. |
| 01:06:52.42 | Unknown | that's a good thing. Thank you. |
| 01:06:52.89 | Unknown | Mr. Bartell, can I ask you one last question? You characterized sort of two different scenarios of, you know, if I, if given the time that's passed since you said this about sort of, and mainly it's the benefits of being in a pool. It can be go both ways for you. If you have a lot of retirees and not a lot of active participants, it's a great thing to be in a pool. |
| 01:06:54.54 | Unknown | Thank you, Chair. |
| 01:07:17.22 | Unknown | if you have the reverse scenario where you want to get out of that pool as fast as possible. |
| 01:07:20.63 | John Bartell (Actuary) | Not so great. That's right. |
| 01:07:22.28 | Unknown | My guess would be most cities or most municipalities are in the, given the way time has passed and the number of employees that cities, municipalities have are in the prior, in the former category where they have more retirees than active |
| 01:07:36.90 | John Bartell (Actuary) | They are clearly moving in that direction. Of course, if everybody, you have to think of your population relative to the average of the risk pool. |
| 01:07:46.13 | Unknown | Right. |
| 01:07:46.33 | John Bartell (Actuary) | That's right. |
| 01:07:46.97 | Unknown | And if you had to characterize our population versus the CalPERS, I don't know the, I know what ours is. It's in your report. I don't know what the CalPERS on average is. I would assume it's somewhat, |
| 01:07:53.20 | John Bartell (Actuary) | Yeah. |
| 01:08:00.07 | Unknown | weighted to more retirees than contributors. |
| 01:08:04.22 | John Bartell (Actuary) | There is, so there are two things I think that are significant relative to whether being in a risk pool is or is not a good deal for you. One is absolutely what you just talked about. Your actives relative to retirees. I would expect you all You all have been around for a long time and your population has likely been more stable compared to other areas of the state. So I would expect you would have more retirees compared to actives than the average in the risk pool. |
| 01:08:36.18 | Unknown | That's true. |
| 01:08:45.16 | John Bartell (Actuary) | There's another aspect, and I think that would be true whether we're talking about miscellaneous fireplace. There's another aspect of the risk pool that is not a very big deal relative to non-safety, but is a big deal relative to safety, and that is industrial disability. Industrial disability for non-safety is just not even remotely common and just has little impact on the risk pool contribution. The disability provisions for safety, on the other hand, can be adverse, meaning we're We're looking at the disability experience in the risk pool and it looks like it is worse than those agencies that are not in the risk pool. And so to the extent that you fall into the category of being managing your industrial disability better than other agencies in the risk pool. you're sort of paying for a liability for the people in the risk pool. |
| 01:09:57.67 | Unknown | warm. |
| 01:10:03.37 | John Bartell (Actuary) | CalPERS understands that's an issue, and we believe they're going to be going to their board with a recommendation for a change. If they have not asked me, but if they did ask me, I would suggest the equivalent of an experience rating for agencies that are in the risk pool. To the extent that they do that, that leaves that one issue that you talked about where I would expect you all would be modestly advantaged for being part of the risk pool. |
| 01:10:42.35 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. Thank you. So I would like to enable us to get through this meeting tonight. I'd like to stop right here on this issue, unless there's something burning that somebody needs to say, and then we can have a three-minute, one-minute. |
| 01:11:01.96 | Mayor Kelly | Well, if there's something burning, it's just informational. |
| 01:11:03.79 | Unknown | if there's something burning |
| 01:11:04.97 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:11:05.05 | Councilmember Ford | Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. |
| 01:11:06.32 | Mayor Kelly | No action. Thank you. |
| 01:11:06.88 | Councilmember Ford | Thank you. |
| 01:11:08.46 | Mayor Kelly | So. |
| 01:11:09.20 | Councilmember Ford | Yeah. What are we going to say something? Thank you. |
| 01:11:11.47 | Mayor Kelly | Okay, clock on. |
| 01:11:11.52 | Councilmember Ford | Okay. |
| 01:11:14.52 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:11:14.55 | Councilmember Ford | I was. |
| 01:11:14.98 | Unknown | I'd like to move that the council |
| 01:11:18.70 | Councilmember Ford | I would like to move that the council schedule a workshop with our consultant to review issues special to our particular city. Um, and, and the reason I'm moving this is because every time we hear from our actuary, Mr. Bartels, I learned something. And, uh, you know, the question about risk pools and, uh, whether we should be in a pool or not, the question about industrial injuries, that kind of thing. you know, that's all new to me. I had not even considered that. So we have that. We have other minor issues. Yes, we have a report from Mr. Bartels every year. |
| 01:12:03.19 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:12:05.84 | Councilmember Ford | Sure, we get the top. but i i would like to dig a little bit further and i would like us as a council to understand the issues a little more and uh um take it from there so that's the reason that i'm making that motion the second motion i'm making is that um i think that you know we talked the last time a second motion is I move that the city weigh in and support the governor's 12-point plan by sending letters to the California League of City, the MCCMC, the county, and state legislators. I think that we need to do this, and the last time we talked about it, we said that we would consider it at this meeting when we got the reports |
| 01:12:16.94 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 01:12:59.09 | Mayor Kelly | Got the report. |
| 01:13:02.33 | Councilmember Ford | when we got the reports and it is listed here in the staff report as one of the items that we would be talking about. Yeah. |
| 01:13:14.03 | Unknown | . So Mr. Mayor? |
| 01:13:19.02 | Mayor Kelly | Well, there's two motions on the table. |
| 01:13:20.46 | Unknown | I second the first motion. I agree, and I second it because I agree with the need for a pension reform workshop, and Thank you. Thank you. |
| 01:13:30.45 | Unknown | Yes. |
| 01:13:30.53 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:13:31.31 | Unknown | Amen. |
| 01:13:32.86 | Unknown | I second the second motion because I agree and wholeheartedly support Governor Brown's pension reform efforts. And So I would, I actually also would like to add that I think Governor Brown's pension reform Recommendations cover a lot of really good ideas, including heightening, raising the retirement age to 67, There are many groundbreaking things. They are baby steps, but at least it's a first step. I also think it's very important to have a session to understand vested rights and how they are earned in California, specifically contractual vested rights and the debate and case law around that, because frankly, I think that you listen to pension, you know, there are different views about that. And I think that that would be very beneficial for us. And I do have a question to city staff, if I may, Mr. Nair. |
| 01:14:46.00 | Mayor Kelly | You've got a minute and 43 seconds. Thank you. |
| 01:14:48.76 | Unknown | Thank you. I have a question for Adam with regards to current city contracts. When would we start negotiation for if we were able to, you know, explore, you know, potential pension reform or cost-saving, you know, elements? When would we start that negotiation given the contracts I think are up for renewal in April or something like this? |
| 01:15:19.12 | Adam Politzer | Thank you, Mr. or Ms. Pfeiffer, Councilmember Pfeiffer. Charlie Francis and I have been very much engaged in this discussion. and we'll be bringing to the council a timeline and schedule and further discussion with you folks probably at its next meeting. Tom. And, uh, uh, the negotiations with the labor groups would then, we would open up formal discussions with them and start negotiating. |
| 01:15:58.73 | Unknown | It's my understanding that fire, police, miscellaneous employees, they're all in the same timetable, correct? Thank you. That's correct. |
| 01:16:06.17 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:16:06.27 | Unknown | That's cool. |
| 01:16:06.51 | Unknown | All right. |
| 01:16:06.62 | Unknown | Thank you. just a point of clarification. Yeah. Just reading from the minutes for the last meeting, after a I know there was much discussion, and these are abbreviated, but at the end of it, the following further discussion on motion amendments, Council Member Pfeiffer amended the motion to indicate that this item, meaning Governor Brown's nine-point plan, or 12 points, or 999, or whatever it is, would be brought forward at either the second meeting in January or the first meeting in February, which was agreed to by everyone except for her. |
| 01:16:39.48 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. Do you have any comments? Not this meeting. Do you have any comments? No. All right. Do you have anything else? Mr. Mayor. Let me suggest that you withdraw your motion on the understanding that we will calendar for either the next January meeting or the February meeting the Governor's 12-point program and have an up-and-down vote on whether we want to support it or not. |
| 01:16:41.40 | Unknown | Did you have a comment? |
| 01:16:45.30 | Unknown | All right. |
| 01:17:04.91 | Councilmember Ford | Well, okay, that's just what I was going to say, that what the issue was there was that we said we would do it at the same time we discussed the reports. And that we hoped, well, I know it's in the minutes, that would be the latest time, would be the January meeting and the February. I'm fine with doing it next meeting. Can we schedule it for that? |
| 01:17:15.20 | Unknown | And that we hope. |
| 01:17:17.03 | Unknown | So... |
| 01:17:17.47 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:17:26.11 | Mayor Kelly | Okay. Can we schedule it for that? We haven't gone up the agenda yet. We just pulled about six items off of here that we're probably going to get to tonight, so I think the January next meeting agenda is going to be pretty jammed. So I would suggest that February is a more sure bet, and we're happy to do it at that time. On the other issue, I am personally reluctant to hold meetings with Mr. Bartell. Mr. Bartell is wonderful. I enjoy him every time he's here. He's eloquent and he makes clear things that are very difficult to understand. I think it's a charge of each of us as council members to, and by the way, we have a junior Mr. Bartels here sitting next to him who also understands this stuff to the deepest level. And I would charge that each of us has a responsibility to go to make an appointment with Charlie and sit down and have him go through everything we just went through tonight and more and show you the calculations, literally show you how they calculate these things. and get an explanation of each of the aspects of the pension program, what all those initials and acronyms up there mean, how they're calculated. And I think that we've got that resource internally, so I would suggest that to educate ourselves, we all make appointments with Charlie and get the depth of knowledge we need to be able to address these issues. But there are two motions on the table and there are two seconds. |
| 01:18:55.51 | Unknown | to support. |
| 01:18:55.60 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:18:55.61 | Unknown | Seconds. |
| 01:18:57.45 | Mayor Kelly | The first motion was to hire somebody to teach us. The second one was to endorse the Governor's 12-time program. Mr. Mayor, goodbye. I'll call the question on the second. |
| 01:19:07.12 | Councilmember Ford | Mr. Mayor, goodbye. On which one? |
| 01:19:11.02 | Mayor Kelly | The second one was the Governor's 12-Point Program. So it was to endorse it this evening. |
| 01:19:19.91 | Councilmember Ford | Okay. |
| 01:19:21.56 | Mayor Kelly | So what did you call the roll, Debbie? |
| 01:19:24.40 | Unknown | I asked her who was driving. You didn't know how it was. |
| 01:19:26.05 | Mayor Kelly | I asked her to withdraw it. She didn't withdraw it. So let's do it. Do you want to withdraw? |
| 01:19:31.79 | Councilmember Ford | Oh, sure. I'll withdraw the motion if we schedule it for next January. Great. Our next meeting in January or the first meeting in February. Thank you. I'll agree with that. Okay. |
| 01:19:46.47 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. I'll agree with that. Okay. So then back on the other one. |
| 01:19:50.24 | Councilmember Ford | The other one, I'd just like to respond to your comments, and that is the reason I think we need the workshop is that we need to go a little beyond Charlie's knowledge. I believe many of us understand the acronyms and a lot of the calculations. I know I personally worked with them. But what I want to know is the picture from an actuaries I want to speak have a speak to an actuary I've worked with actuaries for years I understand the personalities, I understand the detail that they get into and how their, maybe I shouldn't say how their minds work. I think we need that sort of depth, and I would, if Mr. Bartell himself isn't personally available, if his rates are over the top, maybe he has an assistant who can provide this service. |
| 01:20:48.40 | Unknown | Can I ask a question? Sure. Who's the training for? Is it for you or are you asking us that we need it and you don't? |
| 01:20:56.56 | Councilmember Ford | Oh, I'm not asking for training, I'm asking for a workshop. A workshop that focuses the council on what it is we can do what the pools, the question you asked tonight about the pools, I think we need to get more information there. I think we just need to find out what we don't know about this in case, because this is, such an expense looming on our horizon we need to work at this problem in depth. That's all I'm saying. And maybe it's just an hour. Maybe we start with just an hour, and we get some information. We talk. We talk about where we're going with our pension funding for Sausalito, what things we'd like to see, possibly, and how we're going to... how we're going to proceed in the future if we, if CalPERS comes up with the poor poor return, which seems likely. So that's the meat of it. All right. I'll call the question. Debbie, call the roll. Okay. |
| 01:22:17.34 | Debbie (City Clerk) | Council Member Fiverr. Which one do you call? |
| 01:22:19.68 | Mayor Kelly | There's only one on the table, and that's the one to hire somebody to do a workshop. |
| 01:22:25.98 | Debbie (City Clerk) | Thank you. |
| 01:22:25.99 | Unknown | Yes. |
| 01:22:26.58 | Debbie (City Clerk) | Thank you. |
| 01:22:26.60 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:22:27.51 | Debbie (City Clerk) | Vice Mayor Leong. Councilmember Ford. |
| 01:22:32.71 | Councilmember Ford | Yes. |
| 01:22:33.92 | Debbie (City Clerk) | Councilmember Weiner. |
| 01:22:35.78 | Mayor Kelly | you know, |
| 01:22:38.09 | Debbie (City Clerk) | Mayor Kelly. |
| 01:22:38.94 | Mayor Kelly | No. All right, let's move on to Charlie? |
| 01:22:45.90 | Unknown | So you've called the questions on those, but if I could take my one minute before you move on to this thing. I think we were educated six months ago by Mr. Bartell. |
| 01:22:48.44 | Mayor Kelly | Yeah. Oh. Okay. |
| 01:22:56.22 | Unknown | I think when we get to the question of the side fund, we'll go through the same level of analysis on what our options are. And during the negotiation of all the union contracts coming up, we'll address all these issues. I can only speak for myself, but having listened to the conversations here for the last six years, and that I think we all have the general knowledge at the level we need to have these discussions. If people feel inadequate in some way, they need to attend either League of Cities conferences, which I did, and it's absolutely the pension stuff. to come up to speed in order to discuss this, but also I think we need to be cognizant that Right. at the executive level of stuff and we are in the negotiation process. We need to have faith with our staff that they're doing a lot of the necessary research as well. |
| 01:23:42.69 | Councilmember Ford | Mr. Mayor, may I respond? I have one minute. |
| 01:23:44.21 | Mayor Kelly | Okay, I had one minute. We're down to the one minute deals. |
| 01:23:47.65 | Councilmember Ford | Yeah. Thank you. |
| 01:23:48.11 | Mayor Kelly | So you've got the one-minute timer? |
| 01:23:49.42 | Councilmember Ford | Yeah. |
| 01:23:49.44 | Mayor Kelly | Okay. |
| 01:23:50.03 | Councilmember Ford | Okay. |
| 01:23:50.37 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 01:23:50.38 | Councilmember Ford | Right. I believe that we can always learn. And I think that the more we know, the better counsel we will be in terms of deciding what our pension plan should look like. We're here to set policy. Clearly, clearly staff has a conflict of interest it's a built-in conflict of interest we as a policy group need to set the policy. So we need to move forward. And the best way to do that is with as much knowledge as we can get. |
| 01:24:35.09 | Unknown | Mr. Mayor, if I may say one minute. Thank you very much. |
| 01:24:37.47 | Councilmember Ford | One minute. Thank you very much. |
| 01:24:39.03 | Chuck Donald | Can we reset for one minute? |
| 01:24:42.41 | Unknown | I would concur. Pension reform, it's one of the key defining issues of our time, we're in a unique leadership role to take a leadership action in this area, in this regard. And a workshop, I think it's past time for something like this to raise public awareness and in terms of education, as an educator, I can tell you. the, uh, the very aspect of knowledge is that it's constantly changing. It's constantly changing and this field is constantly changing. And so to have an expert of Mr. Vartel's expertise in front of us and kind of guiding us through the latest and greatest and the choice insurance is absolutely invaluable. So that's why I voted yes. Mr. Mayor, I do would like to comment also on, frankly, a member of the audience who is heckling me. When I speak, she speaks over me. And when Councilmember Ford speaks, sometimes she speaks over. And frankly, I would just ask for decorum in the audience |
| 01:25:54.75 | Mayor Kelly | I'll take my minute. I have been doing this for seven years now. Uh, I came to, I have a Thank you. expertise, some expertise in financial matters, and I understand actuarial studies and other things. I've educated myself largely in that, and I started educating myself when I got on the council as to pensions and pension obligations and so on. And it is a confusing thing for a first-time person to look at. But I am unwilling to spend council money, or city money for that matter, on expensive consultants to educate individuals when it's impossible to know at what level. council money or city money for that matter on expensive consultants to educate individuals when it's impossible to know at what level they're operating. I think it's imperative that if you're being confused, if I am being confused, if someone up here is being confused by the presentations of Mr. Bartels or anyone else that you've got to go to staff and if you're not satisfied with the answer to staff, then there's educational opportunities all across the board to familiarize yourself with this. And so from that point of view, I believe that pension reform is absolutely essential. I've preached it since the day I got on the council. So with that, we'll move on. Yep. |
| 01:27:11.01 | Councilmember Ford | I have one more comment, one more minute. |
| 01:27:11.57 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 01:27:13.96 | Councilmember Ford | I think that what's happening here is my proposal is continuing to be misinterpreted. I have no problem. I have worked with pension funds for years as a consultant, and I am not asking for specific training. What I'm asking for is a consultant of Mr. Bartel's capabilities to sit with us to lead us through some options to talk about pools Thank you. to delve into the finer details of this and learn as much as we can. Now, none of us, we all have experience, but none of us is an expert on pension funds. The only people who are experts on defined pension funds are the actuaries, and I can vouch for that. So that's my request. |
| 01:28:15.78 | Mayor Kelly | Okay, thank you. |
| 01:28:17.70 | Councilmember Ford | Thank you. |
| 01:28:17.73 | Mayor Kelly | Let's move to item 6B, Charlie. |
| 01:28:23.27 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | Thank you, Mr. Mayor, members of the council. Tonight is a presentation of the annual financial report. And I'd just like to take a moment to say that these items from the finance department occur based on a strategic schedule. I'd like just to jump forward to the next steps. As you recall and as we went over during the strategic planning session, the finance department works on cycles. The cycle starts with a mid-year budget review. We develop a labor strategy. We talk about all that during the city strategic planning. Then we go through either annual or biannual budget formations. The priority calendar gets worked in and we do the audit. And then we present the audit at this time of the year right before the mid-year budget we do. |
| 01:29:04.07 | Unknown | girls. |
| 01:29:18.22 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | Although those are individual steps, the work in that whole process is continuing for me. We're developing a comprehensive labor strategy that includes elements of pension reform, OPEB reform, labor cost reform within it. I can't go into the details now because that's subject to our the direction that we want to go in and usually the city council would first do that in closed session. So, but I'm really excited to hear the robust debate that's going on about the elements of pension. And next council meeting we'll talk about some of the elements of OPEB reform. because when staff does bring you this comprehensive labor strategy, I think you'll all be working from a deeper understanding because you're asking these insightful questions today. So please bear with me and let me go through this, but please also have confidence in me that we've looked around what other cities have done with pension reform, with OPEB reform. We've seen some bad and unintended consequences. We've seen some good results. Thank you. done with pension reform, with OPEB reform, we've seen some bad and unintended consequences. We've seen some good results. And so when I go to conferences like CalPELRA, the Public Employee Relations Board, when I read our professional magazines and I engage in discussions with my peers and with Mr. Bartell. We can then start to say, here's what worked, here's what didn't work, and here's what might work with the City Council's approval for the city of Sausalito. So I just wanted to leave you with that little little bit of assurance that these things just aren't happening in random or in isolation, but they're all being tied together. And what has been working is to be a very good financial strategic plan for the council. Oh, I'm very sorry. OPAP stands for Other Post-Employment Benefits. And typically that refers to the kind of retirement health care that retirees get when they leave the city service. |
| 01:31:33.10 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | So let's go back to the beginning. As you know, I title everything that whenever I speak to the city council or to our citizens, I said sooner or later it always comes down to money. Because it seems like sooner or later it always does. And this wonderful photograph was done at the city's request by one of our artists at MLK, John Lund, who whipped it out in 30 minutes. Just started taking the dollars and squeezing every last penny out of it, which is what we're doing here. |
| 01:31:41.72 | Unknown | because |
| 01:31:53.63 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:31:55.94 | Unknown | So... |
| 01:32:02.04 | Unknown | Is that what he sent you as his landlord? Yeah, right. No, he made his rent payment, too. |
| 01:32:04.91 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | that's not even as i think it's a Thank you. So tonight we're going to talk about the city's financial condition. I want to point out, you received this in your... around November 30th or the 1st of December, Thank you. And. It's for the... The period ending June 30, 2011, because we're on a fiscal year that starts July 1st of the previous year and ends on June 30th. And then it looks at the financial position as of a certain date and time. In other words, a balance sheet will change tomorrow from what it is today, because tomorrow we'll be accruing payroll. Today we didn't. So the balance sheet says, what was our financial position as of June 30? And then finally, from looking at the financial outlook and comparing it to the past three years' presentations where we had financials, we can then start to draw some conclusions about our outlook beyond June 30, 2011. So just let me in summary, these documents are pretty difficult to read. They're not as difficult as an actuary report, but sometimes people can get lost. This is something you normally wouldn't find on the average citizen's coffee table in their living room. But a citizen really wants to know Three questions. First, can I, or four questions. Can I rely on these financial statements? Second question is, can we pay our bills? The third one is, is our abilities to pay our bills getting better, worse? And what does the future look like? And so we're going to answer those questions today by saying that we're able to pay our bills again. So we're stable. You reached your first strategic plan goal, the stable part of your strategic plan goal, and we've been stable for the past four years. The second part is though, is our ability to pay our bills improving? And in the past previous years, I've said the results of the financial operation have been that They have been improving. But I always cautioned us that 2012 was going to be a pivotal year. And sure enough, June 30, 2011, we're seeing signs of our financial position improving, starting to stall. So I'm very cautious at this part about our sustainability and we'll talk about that a little bit later. And our outlook for the long term is favorable, if we're able to manifest the positive results that we've started through the medium term strategies that this city council has gone forward with for the past four years. So first of all, CAFR stands for Comprehensive Annual Financial Report comprehensive because it looks at every aspect of the city. It goes over the city's assets, liabilities, fund balance, return earnings, revenues and expenditures, and it does so in a pyramid for fashion. In other words, it takes a look at all I think there's 54. that the city has. So think of the city as as having 54 separate businesses, 54 separate balance sheets that have assets, liabilities, and fund balance or retained earnings, each with their own separate income statement. And as I covered during our strategic planning, They're just... tens of thousands of transactions equaling millions and millions and millions of dollars. At one point I gave an illustration that if you took those dollars and piled them up they would go I think 11 miles into the sky of transactions. Each one of those transactions has to be categorized back to Where does it fit and which one of these funds does it go? And then those funds get combined and finally we're able to produce combined statements and combining statements. We do this all in accordance with the Governmental Accounting Standards Board. Earlier tonight you mentioned GASB. GASB stands for Governmental Accounting Standards Board. And they, along with FASB, as well as the American Institute of Certified Public Account Accountants set the standards that cities must comply with in order to present their financial statements. And that standard part is what I want to, this slide talks to, is all of these are standardized. And they're standardized so that we can understand the information on a consistent basis going from year to year. We can look at 09, 010, 2011. They're all in the same format, all using the same accounting standards, all using the same type of calculations so that we can see what's happening as we go from year to year. And then we can compare ourselves to other cities as well. So everyone, whether it's city council, a citizen, all the way up to the state and federal government, as they look at city financial statements, they're all presented in a similar way so they can come to analytical conclusions. The report was audited by, was required by state law by an independent certified public accountant. Once again it was May's Associates. They issued what's called an unqualified, which outside the industry you call a clean opinion. It's the highest opinion that a city can get. And it says that the financial statements present fairly in all material respects in accordance with the generally accepted accounting principles of the United States, the financial position as of June 30 and for the period ending June 30, 2011. More importantly, though, you want to know, Not only does it present fairly, but was there anything that you need to worry about? And the auditors opined that there were no matters, none, involving internal control over financial reporting and its operation that were considered to be a material weakness. So, in other words, they're saying you can rely on these financial statements, not only that they present fairly, but we have the right kind of internal controls in place to be able to, with reasonable assurance, prevent any kind of fraudulent activity from occurring or any kind of activity that would result in erroneous information in our financial statements. And then they went one step further and they said there were no instances of noncompliance or reportable conditions that are required to be reporting under what's called gas, government auditing standards. So that's like one step lower than the internal controls and they found no instances of noncompliance there. So that can give you and the citizens and reliers on financial statements that the financial statements reflect fairly the financial position of the city of South Salino. So, check mark. Citizens, you can rely on those financial statements. The second thing is, can we pay our bills? And, |
| 01:39:00.57 | Unknown | Yes. Do you want us to wait until the end? Is it clarifying question? |
| 01:39:02.77 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | to ask questions. |
| 01:39:04.35 | Unknown | No, I can wait until the end. Okay. |
| 01:39:05.38 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | Okay. Thank you. |
| 01:39:06.21 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:39:06.22 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | I prefer. Thank you. |
| 01:39:06.27 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:39:08.54 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | Make sure you write down your question. So one way we look at can we pay our bills is we look at operating inflows, operating outflows. And it's different than capital inflows and capital outflows. Because as you know, sometimes in our special revenue funds, we take money, we set it aside for capital improvements in the future. So we want to be able to know are we getting enough money on a day-to-day basis to be able to pay the bills that we can track for consistent with the level of service that the City Council sets in the annual budget. And do we have enough reserves? So it's just like a household. You know, do we have incomes to pay our monthly bills? our rent, our groceries, our electricity. And if something happened where I needed to replace all the wheels on my car, do I have enough money in the bank account to be able to do that? So first of all, our general fund exceeded their expenditures, the revenues exceed expenditures by $213,000. So that was very good. When we go into a deeper analysis of that, we're starting to see that the revenues, some of those revenues were one-time revenues and some of the expenditures were unusual deductions. And when we annualize that, we're starting to see our revenues flatten out and our expenditures meeting that. And so as we go off in the future, that's why I'm talking about cautionary stability. for all our governmental activities, where we go back to all these different funds, |
| 01:40:44.39 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | general fund, special revenue fund, capital improvement fund, debt service fund. That's what we call governmental activities. And across the board, our revenues were slightly less than operating expenses. Oh, a little cautionary note there. We started to have to look at that. And our business type activities is our sewer fund, our MLK, our old city hall. Those revenues exceeded expenses by only $54,000. So we were able to pay our bills, but we're starting to look at some cautionary sustainability. Those revenues exceeded expenses by only $54,000. So we were able to pay our bills, but we're starting to look at some cautionary sustainability there. Our reserves are good. Our total fund balances that are not unassigned are $8.9 million. I'd have to point out though, that 8.2 million of that 8.9 million is tied up in loans to MLK. We don't have the flexibility to pay off the police side fund or the miscellaneous side fund or the fire side fund at the present time because those reserves are illiquid. So it looks good on the balance sheet. But if an emergency happened or if you needed money to give yourself some flexibility to get operating savings, it would be hard to liquidate them. But our unassigned revenues are $1.9 million, almost 2 million, which is 14.95% of our general fund expenditures, which is a very healthy liquid reserve for the city to have. Very healthy, most cities would salivate to have a reserve of that magnitude. In addition, we have another 700,000 that's assigned just for contingencies. So our total liquidity just in the general fund is $2.6 million. Our fund balances for all governmental activities including the tideland fund, the capital project fund, there was still two million dollars in there because this was before we did the defeasance for the public safety building. Total 20 million dollars and our current assets exceed our liabilities and our enterprise funds by 2.5 million. This means we can pay our bills, we're stable. But as we look at our financial position, is our ability to pay our bills improving or not, I want to point out this graph is an interesting graph. It looks at our total net assets and we can see that they were growing at a pretty good rate between 2005 and 2019. This is the growth rate, 8%. 10%, 12%, great increases to our net assets. Last year it dropped down to 4% and this year the growth was negligible. Thank you. and a growth in that asset. So this starts to say, uh-oh, what's going on here? Thank you. |
| 01:43:30.22 | Unknown | I know you said to wait until the end, but as a point of clarification, your net assets could include fund balances of cash, right? Is that correct? |
| 01:43:31.43 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | Yeah. |
| 01:43:37.10 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | Is that correct? Fund balances. This includes liquid and illiquid fund balances. |
| 01:43:41.88 | Unknown | So if we're spending money on repairing a street or the bulkhead or whatever that money's going towards, you're dropping down your net assets, right? |
| 01:43:49.98 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | No, actually you're just moving the net assets. So it just goes from a cache to an infrastructure. Thank you. This is net in. |
| 01:43:55.77 | Unknown | That's all together. So the street is, you're capitalizing, How is it? |
| 01:44:01.42 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | How is that? We do capitalize streets, yes. We capitalize all kinds of things. |
| 01:44:10.95 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | You've all seen these graphs in the fire annexation where we had negative cash. In other words, our fund balance was in the hole and we built them up over the years. And so we all knew this was happening. We knew 2012 was coming towards us. And that drove some of the policies that we'll talk about later of whether or not to go forward with fire annexation. But it was always showing signs of getting to a point where some kind of interventionary action was needed. But we had plans for that. The city marched forward with those plans and every year for the past three years I've been saying that our outlook for the future would be Challenging was the word I used. So what's the likelihood that it's going to improve? Again, coming back to this comprehensive analysis, comprehensive strategies, looking at what we can do not only today, not only through the next year budget, but in the next five years, in the next ten years. You've authorized through your priority calendar an economic development study and action plan. Service level delivery studies, our fire department annexation was submitted to LAFCO. And we're in the process, as I described at the beginning of this presentation, of developing a comprehensive labor strategy. To get there, you've authorized several projects. The classification and compensation study, which is nearly completed. The pension study, which we heard tonight. The OPEB study, which is coming next week. and then other actions is our lease optimization and our MLK debt study. Are there ways that we can liquidate the general fund investment in MLK? We're continually looking at revenues and fee studies and then the 30 year financial analytical and planning model is now populated with historical data. By the way, we're also engaged in a project with the Open Knowledge Foundation to be able to take our 10-year history, put it up on the website for people to be, 10-year financial picture is fully transparent. People can look at that data for all kinds of different ways. We're one of the three cities in the United States that's a pilot project with the Open Knowledge Foundation. And upon successful implementation, we'll probably be recognized at the Government Finance Officers Association. So we'll get to come home and hang a little certificate on the wall. Anyway, what am I trying to say? that with the LAFCO application and with the labor strategy studies near completion that I am able to conclude that we have plans in place that our future will look bright and it will still remain challenging but we are on the result of manifesting some positive results. So our next steps will occur very fast. As we mentioned earlier, next week, the OPEB next council meeting, the OPEB study, the labor strategy, coming back with direction from the city council of negotiating with our labor groups, putting together the budget, strategic planning, priority calendar, and we'll be right back into the audit again. So in summary, I'm ready for questions. And at the end of your questions, ask for a motion from the council to file and receive the annual financial report. Thank you. |
| 01:47:43.81 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 01:47:43.83 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | Okay. |
| 01:47:44.20 | Mayor Kelly | Questions? |
| 01:47:44.79 | Unknown | Mr. Mayor, may I ask a question? Thank you. Charlie, so in terms of revenue then, Um, What is our revenue forecast? see revenue increasing over the next five years. For example, |
| 01:48:01.50 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | That's not the focus of the annual financial report. It's more of a focus for the budget process and the long term financial planning process. The, you know, but I guess and I will go over that in detail with the city council, especially as we look at the labor strategy and some of the recommendations that I'm making in the labor strategy. We have to know what our financial outlook is. I can preliminarily tell you, I'll go into the details of every account, that it looks relatively flat with modest growth. We're seeing this year, we're seeing some recovery in our sales tax. Hallelujah. Our hotel tax is modestly increasing when Casa Madrona finishes their rooms. I expect it to come back to levels that we budgeted at. And our property tax remained flat with last year. That was a little disappointing, but we're hoping for the supplemental revenues to pick up to where we're able to catch up with budget. Next week at the Finance Committee meeting I'll be going over our six-month performance for this year in the budget and then for the current year. And then following that, we'll be able to make better projections on our revenue growth in the future. |
| 01:49:23.17 | Unknown | I have a follow-up question, Mr. Mayor. Thank you. So, um, Right. So with regards to revenues, because you brought up fire annexation and saving money and everything. |
| 01:49:34.38 | Unknown | Right. |
| 01:49:35.31 | Unknown | How does our current, the proposed $100,000 lease on the fire building, of align with the cost of the bond that was passed to fund it, fund the building. |
| 01:49:51.00 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | Well, I'm not sure I understand the question, but I can say is that our general obligation bond cost is an additional property tax override. It's not a revenue use of the general fund. In other words, property owners are funding that service. We just defeased from the excess proceeds from the public safety facility building $2 half million dollars, I believe it was, of general obligation bonds. So we've actually reduced to our taxpayers the amount of property taxes that need to be generated to pay our annual debt service. That $100,000 lease payment from the fire district to the city represents probably I can't say from the top of my head, but I'm sure it's over a million dollars worth of general obligation bond retirement over its future. Two million, okay. |
| 01:50:57.99 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:50:58.35 | Councilmember Ford | Thank you. |
| 01:50:58.37 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:50:58.38 | Councilmember Ford | Yeah. |
| 01:50:58.69 | Unknown | you |
| 01:50:58.77 | Councilmember Ford | you Yes, Mr. Mayor. This is the first time I've heard about the Open Knowledge Foundation and being a part of that. Can you tell us a little bit more about it? |
| 01:51:06.55 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | Oh. |
| 01:51:09.93 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | The Open Knowledge Foundation, and the ability for people to have access to data so that they can do their own analysis with it. So after we were able to put a lot of data into the data, |
| 01:51:22.33 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:51:25.13 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | populate our 10 year financial model, I had all this information now in a format, in a data format that could be sent up to the Open Knowledge Foundation so that they could convert it to open source type data. And they have wonderful visualizations of how you can look at information over a short period of time or over a long period of time. So the Open Knowledge Foundation has done this for the UK, but not local government. They've done it for several other countries and sometimes some subunits of government. But they reached out to the Government Finance Officers Association and said, are there cities that might be interested in doing this? And through the firm that we purchased our 30 year financial planning model from, they introduced me to these people from the Open Knowledge Foundation and we started a dialogue and I said, I know our city council loves transparency. I love to have this information up there so that when we present financial analysis, a citizen can go and get the same information I'm working from, and then do their own analysis as well. In fact, it can be embedded in individual websites. So I'll be given a more comprehensive presentation of the whole thing including a demonstration of it in the future. Right now we're working out the bugs and there are some bugs on how it's being displayed. |
| 01:52:55.26 | Councilmember Ford | and how it's been. Sure, thank you. Is, when you say 10 years, is this so that residents can play what if games in terms of massaging the information 10 years out or is this 10 years previous information? So certainly the what if. |
| 01:53:05.84 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | Oh. |
| 01:53:09.53 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | Well, that's... So certainly the what if in the future is a dream of mine. It's a vision. I've loaded it with ten years of historical data. And right now the Open Knowledge Foundation doesn't have forecasting |
| 01:53:18.80 | Councilmember Ford | Thank you. |
| 01:53:18.97 | Unknown | That's historical. |
| 01:53:25.16 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | software. We have forecasting software, but I would like to be able to put it up so that somebody could say, well, if we did this, what impact would that have on my property tax regards to how it's allocated to public safety? |
| 01:53:27.88 | Adam Politzer | Yes. |
| 01:53:28.28 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:53:36.81 | Councilmember Ford | Sure. |
| 01:53:41.21 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | Good. |
| 01:53:41.23 | Councilmember Ford | Good, that was my next follow-on question. Where do we stand with the installation of the software package for... Oh, we're populated |
| 01:53:49.09 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | Oh, we're populated and we're using it. You've seen some of the graphs in the, you've seen many of the graphs in the |
| 01:53:51.18 | Councilmember Ford | Oh, good. |
| 01:53:51.84 | Dorothy Gibson | Thank you. |
| 01:53:58.91 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | the fire annexation analysis and as well as I think in the In this presentation, I even... |
| 01:54:07.37 | Councilmember Ford | Okay, well, my real question is what facility does it have for projecting how many years out? |
| 01:54:15.38 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | It's a total of 30 years, so it looks back 10 and goes forward 20. But we encroach on that every year, so I think maybe I'm out to 18 years now. You know, when you get out that far, |
| 01:54:19.23 | Councilmember Ford | I assume. Right. |
| 01:54:20.80 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:54:26.74 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | It becomes less, forecasts for one thing never come true, but it's all in the assumptions. |
| 01:54:29.49 | Unknown | or whatever. It's all in the assumptions. |
| 01:54:33.29 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | But the, so for the most part I'm using it to analyze our current policy decisions and the impact on the next five years. |
| 01:54:35.48 | Unknown | park. |
| 01:54:35.87 | Councilmember Ford | Yeah. |
| 01:54:42.31 | Councilmember Ford | Sure. Thank you. All right. Questions? Thank you. |
| 01:54:46.84 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. MR. Good public comment. All right, well, thank you, Charlie, very much for that. |
| 01:54:51.48 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | Thank you, Charlie, very much for that. Motion received and filed. |
| 01:54:55.00 | Mayor Kelly | Oh, we're not done with the public yet. We've got to let the public talk. |
| 01:54:56.07 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | Thank you. |
| 01:54:58.70 | Mayor Kelly | All right, so open for public comment. Anyone who'd like to address the council on this item? Seeing no one. Going once, going twice. All right. We'll bring it back up here. Does anybody want to Well, I think this is something, of course, we've seen before on the Finance Committee, and I've seen it every year, pretty much since I'm on the council. But we are in very good shape relative to most of the communities around, but we are also subject to the flatness of our economy and the flatness of real estate prices and sales tax and TOT and so on. So it's prudent that we do what we can to try to keep the city solvent. And we are doing that and Charlie addressed the issues quite specifically. So do I have a motion? I just want to ask a quick question. |
| 01:55:53.71 | Unknown | I just wanted to ask you a quick question. I didn't know you were going on to that part. Do you have a second, Chair? on the graphs because that's the first one, the financial position graph. Oh, you took it down, right? Sorry, Charlie. |
| 01:56:15.41 | Unknown | This one? Yeah, that one. So just so we don't get into another discussion of whether the sun is exploding or not, which we've had in the past, So the flattening out of the growth of assets is in the top line is essentially that, the top orange is that, right? This is the total assets, right? Is that correct? Yes. And that's the slope has been decreasing in terms of its accumulating further assets. What are you, what is the main, what has been the main drivers of that? |
| 01:56:36.54 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | I just want to let you know. Yes. |
| 01:56:49.89 | Unknown | in terms of what's been slowing down that accumulation in the last couple of years. Thank you. |
| 01:56:55.31 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | The main drivers are revenues were dropped at part of the 2009 and flattened out from 2009 through 2012. But our expenditures rose because of |
| 01:57:06.19 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:57:13.01 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | primarily labor costs. |
| 01:57:16.33 | Unknown | And the white line is the change, the growth rate. Is that correct? |
| 01:57:20.48 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | Right, and it's this axis is secondary axis for this growth rate. So here you can see the rate of change was 8%. That's that slope. |
| 01:57:31.98 | Unknown | Right, and the increase in labor costs that you're referring to is mostly sort of driven by the the pension and health care costs. |
| 01:57:38.73 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | health care costs. Two main drivers of labor cost increases the past three years that we've been here. First is the CalPERS pension rates and the second is health care rates. Wherever you go, those are the two main drivers. You will see in my labor strategy that we will present to you reform in both of those to lower the cost of labor. Our cost of labor in the city right now is over 70%, and sustainable numbers might be less than that. |
| 01:58:11.95 | Unknown | Okay. And going to the next graph. |
| 01:58:13.98 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | Thank you. |
| 01:58:14.16 | Unknown | the top graph were revenues and expenditures. As far as looking out to 2012, and you showed us this graph before. Um, that's when we knew the crossover between, because of those increases in healthcare and especially pension smoothing was sort of pushing things out where we would hit that line. That's correct. And we've known that for a few years and that's led us down a certain path of decision making in terms of preparing for that. |
| 01:58:29.28 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | Right. it. That's correct. |
| 01:58:40.56 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | Absolutely. |
| 01:58:40.99 | Unknown | you're So it's not a shock that we're at that inflection point. |
| 01:58:44.88 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | No. Three years ago when you asked me if the sun was exploding, I said, no, we have plans to get us there. But if we don't implement those plans, the piggy bank could explode. |
| 01:58:53.67 | Unknown | The piggy bank could explode. Is that the one at the bottom? I think that that graph was the one where we didn't implement some of these plans. Is that correct? |
| 01:59:01.02 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | This one is the implementation where our revenues drop because of fire annexation, but our expenditures drop more. And that brings us back to fiscal stability rather than instability. |
| 01:59:10.37 | Unknown | Mm-hmm. |
| 01:59:19.60 | Mayor Kelly | All right, anybody else care? No, I just want to. |
| 01:59:21.71 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | Thank you. |
| 01:59:21.73 | Mayor Kelly | I just want to make a comment that, Charlie, I want to thank you very, very much. You know, when I get lost in these things, I sit down with you and I actually understand some of it, whether it's the budget or the CalPERS. I have a lot of trust and faith in you, and I'll stick with you. |
| 01:59:41.26 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | Thank you very much. |
| 01:59:45.46 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | And City Council should know that I have a lot of trust and confidence in you and I enjoy working with each and every one of you. Especially, I enjoy working with our City Manager. |
| 01:59:51.30 | Mayor Kelly | especially. All right. Thank you, Charlie. All right. Let's move on to Next item. |
| 01:59:59.12 | Unknown | item? |
| 01:59:59.95 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 01:59:59.97 | Unknown | you |
| 02:00:00.04 | Unknown | Sweetheart. |
| 02:00:00.71 | Unknown | to be able to get a |
| 02:00:00.76 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:00:00.85 | Mayor Kelly | Motion. Mayor. Motion. Oh, we need the motion. Yeah. Somebody going to give me the motion. |
| 02:00:00.91 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:00:00.95 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:00:00.97 | Unknown | Mayor. |
| 02:00:03.97 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | Motion. Motion. Thank you. |
| 02:00:16.62 | Unknown | only Thank you. |
| 02:00:17.27 | Unknown | I will make the motion to officially receive and file the comprehensive annual financial report for the fiscal year ended June 30, 2011. |
| 02:00:28.05 | Mayor Kelly | I'll say it. |
| 02:00:29.18 | Mayor Kelly | All in favor? |
| 02:00:30.07 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:00:30.09 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:00:30.11 | Mayor Kelly | Bye. |
| 02:00:30.50 | Mayor Kelly | time. Anybody opposed? |
| 02:00:33.16 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:00:33.18 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:00:33.20 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 02:00:34.97 | Mayor Kelly | Now we'll move on to the next item, which is 6C. Notice regarding Sausalito sites proposed for designation as part of the San Francisco Bay Water Trail. This is an item continued from the consent calendar. Thank you. Last time. |
| 02:00:48.32 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Mr. Vice Mayor, members of the council, and staff, and members of the community. Jonathan Goldman, your Director of Public Works. I do have a PowerPoint presentation when The clerk gets an opportunity, it's in the folder. As the mayor mentioned, this item was continued from Council December 6, 2011 meeting. No action on the Council's part is necessary, but staff wants to encourage the Council and the community to take an active role in recognizing the value of the existing sites in Sausalito and prioritizing those sites where increased availability of parking, removal of accessibility barriers for disabled persons, and provision and maintenance of public restrooms can best be accomplished. It's expected that the sites prioritized by the city with concurrence in the form of designation by the water trail staff will compete much more effectively for funding from a variety of state programs in the future. One of the advantages that we have because this item was continued from December 6th is that I have the pleasure, we have the privilege of the project manager from State Coastal Conservancy for the Water Trails Project being here this evening, Ann Buell, who's sitting in the back. She is available to answer questions basically at any point in the process. But I certainly appreciate the opportunity for her to be here, and I think I can speak for her in appreciating the fact that it's only 9 o'clock because our original tentative agenda for this item had us at 10, and so I know she's delighted to be earlier than that. I want to go through this presentation that she shared with us that she had delivered to the San Francisco Bay Conservation and Development Commission in August just to provide counsel with some background and also folks at home who may not be aware of the program or some of the details. uh, their is other information in the staff report, but I think given that you still have several items that moved from consent, after we've gone through the presentation, I'd be happy to answer questions and see where you want to go from here. As was provided in your packet, the San Francisco Bay Area Water Trail represents a collection of a number of sites, I think large numbers of which are existing sites. Certainly the sites in Sausalito that have been identified as part of the program all exist. They are not proposed for new development or something like that. and as you can see from the map, they extend, you know, not only Marin County, but also all the way into the North Bay, along the East Bay, South Bay, and up the peninsula. |
| 02:03:44.71 | Unknown | you know, |
| 02:03:54.60 | Jonathon Goldman | The Bay Area Water Trail is a network of landing and launching sites, nine-county Bay Area, for non-motorized small boats. And it's kind of an important distinction to make. Non-motorized small boats don't have motors. |
| 02:04:10.97 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:04:12.01 | Jonathon Goldman | They're small. |
| 02:04:13.87 | Mayor Kelly | Right there. And. Would you define it? |
| 02:04:16.91 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. |
| 02:04:17.01 | Unknown | Oh, yeah. |
| 02:04:17.47 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. |
| 02:04:17.63 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:04:17.94 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. |
| 02:04:17.97 | Unknown | I'm not. |
| 02:04:18.04 | Jonathon Goldman | I'm sorry. |
| 02:04:18.07 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 02:04:18.09 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. Thank you. Just very briefly, 1990s, the water trail was kind of conceptualized by Bay Access Incorporated. It was actually created by legislation in 2005. Um, uh, Bay Conservation and Development Commission and State Coastal Conservancy have worked together under that legislative mandate to implement the program. 2011, the final EIR was certified. |
| 02:04:43.52 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:04:48.56 | Jonathon Goldman | The plan itself finalized. And a million dollar grant to Association of Bay Area Governments has provided the planning and project management infrastructure that exists for the project right now. |
| 02:05:07.67 | Unknown | Mm-hmm. |
| 02:05:09.03 | Jonathon Goldman | These guys don't even have trolling motors, so just want to make it clear there. Kayaks, canoes. This is a photograph of El Vizo Marina County Park in Santa Clara County. That dory looks somewhat familiar. |
| 02:05:11.75 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:05:11.77 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:05:27.75 | Jonathon Goldman | Palo Alto Baylands, Santa Clara County. The wind is the motor there. Wind surfing and kiteboarding at Chrissy Field. Sculling, Tidewater Boating Center in Alameda County. My son's row for a competing team, so I'm not going to dwell on this. Whale boating, San Francisco. Dragon boating is another non-motorized small boat, although those are pretty big. There are dragon boat races. Thank you. This site is, let's see, this is Red Oak Victory in Richmond. Outrigger Canoe, Team Canoes, I'm not sure where that is, but and might be able to tell us. McNeers Beach stand-up paddle boarding, that's, I don't know if any of you are aware, but our police chief organized a management activity for the management team here at Schoonmaker then about stand-up paddle boarding. |
| 02:06:35.47 | Unknown | I'd love to have seen that. |
| 02:06:36.77 | Jonathon Goldman | We were not allowed to bring cameras. |
| 02:06:36.97 | Mayor Kelly | We, we, yeah. |
| 02:06:40.23 | Mayor Kelly | There's a good way to keep your head above |
| 02:06:41.53 | Mayor Kelly | WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE |
| 02:06:43.35 | Mayor Kelly | Everybody, no videos. Darn. |
| 02:06:46.76 | Jonathon Goldman | The Bay Area Water Trail is an opportunity to make multi-site and multi-day trips around San Francisco Bay. |
| 02:06:54.93 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:06:56.23 | Jonathon Goldman | in a non-motorized small boat to make those possible. Multiple day trips can include camping on and or hotel or hostel stays. This is an itinerary or a potential itinerary. Opportunities for overnight stays at certain destinations. This is a photograph of Point Pinal Regional Shoreline opening day for a group camp. East Bay Regional Park District has been a big part of a number of the sites that are fairly well advanced in the program. Of course they have a really large organization but |
| 02:07:30.30 | Unknown | Yes. |
| 02:07:30.72 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:07:35.83 | Jonathon Goldman | The meetings that I've attended, they have been very supportive and I think will benefit greatly from this program. Hotels and hostels near sites could benefit both voters and business owners. Besides more facilities for overnight stays, what's needed? Existing access varies. There's the good. Here's another example, Martin Luther King Jr. Regional Shoreline near the Oakland Airport. Schoonmacher is identified as good. Cuttings Wharf in Napa County. The BAD, that location isn't identified, but it looks familiar to me. or sad, this was at one point a pier or dock of some sort, but has been closed for some reason. Here's another example of water access that used to be there and at the time of the photograph is no longer. And then other candidates are places that were identified as desirable but where no access currently exists. And then here's an example of the Great. And some of the rationale, I think, for the Great here is obvious in some of these photographs. This facility opened March 5, 2011. Low freeboard dock design, which makes it really easy for someone who wants to get in and out of a kayak to do so without worrying too much about getting wet. Here's an even easier access doc. More to a trailhead than just a gangway or dock or beach. Boat storage is certainly a desirable feature for some facilities. Parking, availability of public parking. Public restrooms and other facilities. Um, Questions that, you know, people ask about the program. Are there good access sites near my home? What should I know about using the sites? Where can I see wildlife? Are there boat rinsing facilities so that you don't necessarily carry undesirable species either from one location to another or from your non-motorist adventure into your garage? Is there a lot of other boat traffic nearby? There's, looks like the Larkspur ferry going by, San Quentin or Remillard Park. Any sites near the Bay Trail, again, there's the opportunity to link water trail facilities up with upland facilities. Shimada Park, Elmer's Creek identified here, San Leandro Marina, Richmond Marina. Another objective is to improve public access to a shared resource, the San Francisco Bay. 112 potential backbone sites identified, as you may recall from the staff report. Five of those are in Marin County. Fifty-seven high opportunity sites, as well as existing and not in Marin or at least not in Sausalito, other planned launches and destinations. The project management team, again, which Ann is in charge of, includes the Coastal Conservancy, BCDC, ABAG, and the California Department of Boating and Waterways staff. And then an advisory committee, which includes a number of stakeholders. The advisory committee includes accessibility experts, bay access, California Association of Harbor Masters, Fish and Game, state parks, county or local parks, East Bay Regional Park, hospitality industry, outfitters and tour guides, National Park Service, Coast Guard, Fish and Wildlife Service, and at least one wildlife and habitat protection organization. |
| 02:11:51.49 | Jonathon Goldman | The implementation program includes regional planning and information dissemination. There is already a lot of this information available on either, on the WaterTrails website which either I think links to Coastal Conservancy or BCDC. The program will develop maps, signs, brochures and guidebooks. |
| 02:12:06.25 | Unknown | Uh, |
| 02:12:20.44 | Jonathon Goldman | Um, |
| 02:12:24.88 | Jonathon Goldman | And that's that. That's the presentation. Certainly, to focus a little bit on the Sites identified in Sausalito. Swede's Beach site, which was identified as a landing only or a destination site. In other words, not a site that people would be encouraged to park nearby and try and get a kayak down to or stand up paddleboard down to or take out from. Tourney Street, public boat ramp, Dunphy Park, Skunmacher Point, Clipper Yacht Harbor, Water trail staff toured Sausalito relatively recently, not that they were unfamiliar with Sausalito beforehand, but based on a tour that we recently had, prioritized the tourney boat ramp as a good candidate for boat launch and accessible access. and city staff also feels strongly that the Caskidley Marina, Dunphy Park, and Schoonmacher sites would also be good priorities. Each of these sites has its own issues for improvement, including availability of parking, accomplishing accessibility for disabled persons, and the need for public restrooms. An especially high priority would be new docks to work well for those in wheelchairs, allowing them to get themselves and their non-motorized small boats into and out of the water unassisted. These conceptual designs exist. It will take research, prepare more detailed designs, and estimate costs prior to seeking grant or other funding for construction. |
| 02:13:57.95 | Unknown | Zip. |
| 02:14:12.02 | Jonathon Goldman | Let's see. Again, just kind of in summary, council and community are encouraged to direct staff to gather more information and participate in the water trail program. |
| 02:14:22.72 | Unknown | the water. |
| 02:14:24.49 | Jonathon Goldman | with Council's support of the program, the opportunities for grants and other funding to make improvements desirable to the community and in the public interest will be improved. So with that, I am certainly available to answer questions. Ann, is there anything you wish I had said that you'd like to say? |
| 02:14:44.98 | Unknown | Thank you. . . |
| 02:14:47.32 | Jonathon Goldman | Yeah. . That was her PowerPoint. |
| 02:14:51.22 | Unknown | That was her. |
| 02:14:51.98 | Unknown | All right. |
| 02:14:52.03 | Unknown | I'm sorry. |
| 02:14:52.22 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:14:52.25 | Unknown | PowerPoint. |
| 02:14:53.33 | Mayor Kelly | I'm not kidding. |
| 02:14:53.40 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:14:53.53 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. |
| 02:14:53.55 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:14:53.60 | Jonathon Goldman | Yeah. Thank you. |
| 02:14:54.53 | Mayor Kelly | Are there any questions? |
| 02:14:55.09 | Unknown | Any questions? Mr. Mayor, I have a couple questions. Thank you. Thank you, Jonathan. It's an exciting project. to see this and I had two questions. One is, and they both regard sweet speech. |
| 02:15:10.06 | Unknown | Yes. |
| 02:15:10.41 | Unknown | So the first question is, I know that given that the pier remnants at Swedes Beach are historic, it's my understanding they're historic, has the Historic Landmarks Board been consulted to weigh in with regards to the, you know, potential impact of, you know, the kayaks, you know, maneuvering through these, this historic site. |
| 02:15:38.10 | Jonathon Goldman | The short answer to the question is no. However, as I think Anne could probably provide in more detail, one of the objectives of the program is to make sure that information is available to people who might use these sites to protect historical resources, cultural resources, biological resources, and make sure that while I could go jump in a kayak now, and if I were physically capable of actually getting it to Sweet's Beach, I could come out of the water there and do whatever I want without knowing that I might potentially be adversely impacting. historic structures or things like that. The advantage to the program is that there's an opportunity to give people that kind of information, to provide context so that they avoid damaging resources unless they intentionally want to damage the resources. So, short answer is no, but certainly the program is intended to develop that kind of information about all the, a variety of ways in which people can cause adverse effects from using the water and discourage them from doing that. |
| 02:16:57.72 | Unknown | So thank you, Jonathan. My second question is, with respect to Swede speech, have we looked at any, the potential of city liabilities, you know, the liability of city, with regards to having kayaks going through those piers with respect to the hazards that could be involved because I know some of those piers are under the water and they're not visible until you know you're right up. |
| 02:17:24.02 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:17:24.08 | Jonathon Goldman | Mm-hmm. |
| 02:17:26.20 | Unknown | Has any exploration been |
| 02:17:28.67 | Jonathon Goldman | Again, the short answer to that is not to my knowledge. Thank you. However, that whatever liability there is now, |
| 02:17:34.22 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:17:34.24 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:17:34.59 | Unknown | HOW ARE YOU? |
| 02:17:39.28 | Jonathon Goldman | would exist no matter what, unless we remove the hazards. |
| 02:17:42.47 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:17:47.48 | Unknown | And those are my two questions. I'll yield. Good. |
| 02:17:53.22 | Councilmember Ford | Question? Thank you. |
| 02:17:53.86 | Unknown | you |
| 02:17:53.91 | Councilmember Ford | question I think this is a great program I certainly support it and I as I supported the trail on land but what what I want to know is what conceptual designs exist do we have conceptual designs for any of our current any of the current sites |
| 02:18:19.29 | Jonathon Goldman | No, what I was alluding to in the staff report there are conceptual designs for water access for disabled people. I see. For example, the, and I showed one slide from Oakland Estuary. It's kind of a gray area in some respects, but the way, let's just put it this way. |
| 02:18:31.91 | Unknown | I see. Yes. |
| 02:18:35.58 | Unknown | Thank you. Oakland. |
| 02:18:50.63 | Jonathon Goldman | I believe that public that the city has an obligation under the Americans with Disabilities Act. |
| 02:18:58.54 | Unknown | Mm-hmm. |
| 02:18:58.96 | Jonathon Goldman | to remove barriers to facilities and programs. And so we have an opportunity as a result of that requirement to provide access in a way that frankly doesn't exist in the Bay Area right now. Certainly doesn't exist in Marin County. |
| 02:19:17.27 | Unknown | Certainly. Sure. |
| 02:19:19.81 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. So there are conceptual designs for kayak launching facilities that allow a disabled person, a person in a wheelchair, to unload their kayak from their vehicle because that technology exists and the kayaks exist. |
| 02:19:29.78 | Unknown | AND I THINK IT'S A |
| 02:19:36.21 | Unknown | Kaya. |
| 02:19:38.60 | Jonathon Goldman | by themselves tow their kayak to a dock and secure it and their wheelchair and transfer without the assistance of another person or a machine, into a kayak. |
| 02:19:51.63 | Unknown | Mm-hmm. |
| 02:19:52.07 | Jonathon Goldman | and go out into the water and kayak. because to the extent that they can use their upper body, they're quite capable, way more capable, |
| 02:19:57.96 | Unknown | Sure. |
| 02:20:00.81 | Jonathon Goldman | of kayaking than I probably am. |
| 02:20:03.11 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 02:20:03.46 | Jonathon Goldman | even with the use of my legs, and then transfer back. Dock their kayak, transfer back into their wheelchair, and remove their kayak from the water, again, without needing anyone's help. So that concept is one of those that I think we have an opportunity for and one that the water trail staff anyway thought that the the tourney boat ramp area represented a low hanging fruit Thank you. |
| 02:20:32.98 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:20:32.99 | Jonathon Goldman | for at the risk of overusing an overused term for accomplishing that kind of thing. |
| 02:20:33.38 | Councilmember Ford | Thank you. |
| 02:20:36.96 | Councilmember Ford | Mm-hmm. Yeah, pretty amazing. Thank you. |
| 02:20:44.89 | Mayor Kelly | Any other questions? |
| 02:20:45.78 | Unknown | I just wanted to point out, Jonathan, that Clipper, maybe you're already aware of this, but Clipper is required on their breakwater that's required to be full year-round access and that there are improvements that can be made there as well. Mm-hmm. |
| 02:21:01.02 | Unknown | Mm-hmm. |
| 02:21:03.64 | Unknown | to make it more accessible, including unlocking the gate, which they seldom do, which they're required to do. that can incorporate that side as well. I know it's on the list, but I wouldn't disregard it simply because Clifford is a pain on the neck as far as access goes. |
| 02:21:18.49 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:21:18.54 | Jonathon Goldman | THAT'S RIGHT. |
| 02:21:18.86 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:21:21.00 | Unknown | I don't know. |
| 02:21:23.78 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:21:23.80 | Unknown | And there's required parking with the site already. |
| 02:21:24.16 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:21:24.21 | Jonathon Goldman | And, |
| 02:21:24.44 | Unknown | There's a lot of people. |
| 02:21:27.73 | Mayor Kelly | All right. Thank you, John. Any members of the public wish to address this? Chuck. |
| 02:21:33.44 | Chuck Donald | Thank you. |
| 02:21:37.34 | Chuck Donald | I'll try to keep it short. Cass Marina has been A big issue in this council in many aspects recently And my question is, is the development that's currently going on? with Heber Richards and so forth, for Cass Marina. Is that going to be integrated? And I guess it's a question to John. Is it going to be integrated into this program? |
| 02:21:58.46 | Unknown | John. |
| 02:21:58.83 | Chuck Donald | Yeah. |
| 02:22:02.99 | Jonathon Goldman | Certainly I think that one of the reasons that city staff advocated for Cass Gidley and Dunphy Park is the recognition on our part that council has indicated an intent to enter into a lease or some kind of a relationship for the improvement of that marina and in conversations with Heather and the The development conversations that we've had, they seem very fully committed to full access. So, The answer is yes. I would certainly expect that as they continue to be successful in developing the funds and making the improvements that they want to make, we have the obligation to work with them and comply with the law to make sure that that accessibility is there. And then to the extent that there is synergy with the water trails program and you know, the opportunity exists to provide the same kind of potential access to funding as well as education and signage and things like that. The pieces are all there. The disadvantage that I think Water Trail has in evaluating that site is the The city doesn't, you know, it's a bigger site. The city doesn't currently have as much control over it as might be perceived as the case with the attorney boat ramp site. So, you know, it's a question of timing and emphasis. And certainly if, I'm assuming that the council will be supportive of the, of the concept in general. And as time goes on, you know, depending upon which sites are more successfully able to generate funds and make improvements, you know, it all works out. |
| 02:24:09.62 | Mayor Kelly | Any other comments from the public? |
| 02:24:18.07 | Dorothy Gibson | Dorothy Gibson, I'd just like to make a comment about my own experience at Schoonlacher. I have a rowboat, and I have for years, and I've rowed out of there and I store it there. But it gets increasingly difficult as I get older to haul my rowboat down across the beach and to find a safe path among all these kayaks. quite often. invariably. If I'm there long enough, some person will come and help me haul it down and haul it back out. But I can see with this program, and I think it's wonderful, that you're going to have more and more people coming through on this water route, like we have more and more bicycles coming through. And it's going to be a matter of trafficking and supervising and handling the dogs as well as the people. Thank you. |
| 02:25:14.58 | Unknown | Thank you. I love both. |
| 02:25:23.98 | Michael Racks | I'm Michael Racks, local architect, and I'm speaking as president of the Riches Bay Maritime Association and also past secretary of our former Transportation Action Committee. Um, And I'd like to encourage you to support this program. I think it's a great thing for the Bay Area and our town. I'd like you to encourage our staff to pursue it and find ways to keep it alive and integrated as we improve our shoreline. I'd ask that you give and a copy of our Transportation Action Committee a report because it includes information about landing sites and the need for better shoreline access. And there's probably some good work in there that would be useful. some of the sites here The Sweet Beach has terrible access from the shore. There's an old rickety stair going down, and if you look at the foot of Maine, it's embarrassing. I think to provide good access at the foot of Main Street would be a terrific advantage, an opportunity that awaits itself We should add a site downtown. Where do people want to go? Certainly downtown is one of them. We don't have a good place to pull a small boat out right downtown, and we should. In terms of attorney, The Transportation Action Committee suggests that that ramp be relocated from the for trailering boats. into the bay to the foot of locusts as part of improving that part of our shoreline. and that maybe the Tourney ramp and dock is just for the small boats because there's no real parking at Tourney. But there could be more parking for trailers at the foot of locust as part of Morgan's improvement of that property. So that's something you'll find in our Transportation Action Committee report that's germane to this topic. Another site, Galilee, has a handicap ramp that's accessible at all stages of the tide. If you haven't seen it, check it out. It's not easy with seven foot tight differential. You'll see it's very long and it costs several hundred thousand dollars. So if these sites have to provide access to wheelchairs, At all stages of the tide, that's going to be tough. There was a ramp approved for Clipper. It's not available at all states of the Tide, but it meets federal standards. It doesn't meet state. So these are things we should look at. Parking and restrooms will be certainly another challenge, but we shouldn't have that deter us from pursuing these opportunities. Um, Also, there's a new park planned at Gate 5. And where do people want to go? Yes, downtown, that's one. Well, they also want to see houseboats. They're putting a park right there. There's no reason there couldn't be a dock. This is where the old Charles Van Dam was located. |
| 02:28:23.03 | Mayor Kelly | That's where Dom was located. |
| 02:28:25.46 | Michael Racks | Yeah, Gate 6, sorry. That's a site that should be identified because that's where people want to go. So the RBMA is willing to help and partner here. This is an opportunity that, and I'll just conclude, America's Cup's coming. There's a need to improve our shore access. This is a way we could probably get some funding from other sources to accommodate that activity. And I think if we pick up the pace for that America's Cup, which is a little over a year and a half away, this is a program we should run with. Thank you. Thank you. |
| 02:29:02.80 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. Thank you, Michael. |
| 02:29:05.00 | Michael Racks | Anyone else care to? |
| 02:29:05.98 | Mayor Kelly | comments? |
| 02:29:07.78 | Michael Racks | Thank you. |
| 02:29:07.81 | Mayor Kelly | And please. |
| 02:29:10.97 | Ann Buell | Mr. Mayor, Mr. Vice Mayor and Council members, it's very nice to meet you. Uh, I wanted to add that I went last night to the design review board meeting at the Port of San Francisco related to the America's Cup event. That was one of the main items on their agenda. And interestingly, and very happy for me, They have proposed the event authority has proposed five legacy projects that would come to the city of San Francisco with the America's Cup event. Two of those would be permanent fully accessible non-motorized small boat launches in San Francisco. |
| 02:29:54.03 | Unknown | you |
| 02:29:54.29 | Ann Buell | One would be at the Marina Green and the other would be at Pier 52. And so they are looking at these designs that Jonathan spoke about. And they may lead the way for other sites. They'll be exploring it. We'll find out how much they cost. I'm rooting for those you know, two suggestions to go forward, and I hope they will. Thank you very much for your time and attention, and I hope to be able to work with you in |
| 02:30:21.22 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. Thank you for coming. |
| 02:30:23.43 | Ann Buell | Thank you. |
| 02:30:24.00 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:30:24.02 | Ann Buell | Thank you. |
| 02:30:24.04 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:30:24.06 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:30:24.19 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:30:25.51 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:30:25.52 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:30:25.56 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:30:25.62 | Unknown | I know. |
| 02:30:25.69 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:30:25.76 | Unknown | Okay. |
| 02:30:26.05 | Unknown | One last thing. And Jonathan, I don't know if you can find it in the files, but I would be remiss, because your discussion brought it back up, that David Ley did, and I don't know what happened to David Ley, but he did a lot of this is all recreation-based, but David Ley did an incredible map at one point in time about trying to live |
| 02:30:28.36 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:30:47.51 | Unknown | on the water and do normal things. Like go to Safeway and Mill Valley and all around the North Bay. And I'll look through my files, but I know he's given copies to the city, but I mean it was incredibly detailed. Because that's the way he lived. He wrote to get whatever he got. So I don't know if you can find it. I'll try to dig through my old files to find it too, but it'd be a nice thing to sort of help identify not just how you have fun on the water, but how you live using the water as part of your life. And it may shed some light on some other sites that might be considered. |
| 02:31:00.15 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:31:14.27 | Unknown | Well, |
| 02:31:21.78 | Unknown | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 02:31:21.97 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:31:21.99 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:31:22.04 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:31:22.07 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:31:22.48 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. Any other comments? Second of motion. Thank you. |
| 02:31:27.81 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:31:27.83 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:31:27.86 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:31:28.96 | Councilmember Ford | Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I move. that we removed Swedes Beach from the Bay Area Water Trail to those sites. And for these reasons, I live right next to Swedes Beach, so I'm very familiar with it. It is a tiny neighborhood beach park in the densely populated south end of town. It is currently visited by young families, people walking dogs, local people who are walking well, people who meditate and practice yoga and local rowers, kayakers, paddle boaters, etc., I think that inviting the Bay Area by whistling the small beach on the Bay Area Trail would destroy the serenity of the beach and the neighborhood. If you have large groups of kayakers or large groups of anyone coming into that beach, it can't handle it because of the current activity. So I would like to recommend that that one be removed. I know there are the advantages of being able to use the funds as well, and I agree that the stairs are not in great shape, but that's another matter and needs to be addressed separately. |
| 02:32:24.53 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:33:06.58 | Councilmember Ford | And secondly, just a comment, I think we need to figure out a way and really be careful as we go through the various concepts for the different sites, how we manage traffic if kayaking takes off like the bicycles did. I mean, Dorothy has a good point there. This city is overrun with bicycles right now. Thank you. like the bicycles did. I mean, Dorothy has a good point there. This city is overrun with bicycles right now. So we need to be careful in how we approach it. I fully support the program, but let's just take care in how we approach it. |
| 02:33:48.04 | Unknown | I'll second that motion. All right. Mr. Mayor. |
| 02:33:50.93 | Mayor Kelly | you |
| 02:33:50.98 | Unknown | And then Mr. Mayor. |
| 02:33:51.79 | Mayor Kelly | Are there any other motions? |
| 02:33:54.44 | Unknown | I'll move the staff recommendation to accept staff's proposal to work with the San Francisco Bay Area Water Trail Program to consider designation of potential water trail sites within the city of Sausalito, including the those mentioned in the staff report. |
| 02:34:14.67 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:34:14.69 | Mayor Kelly | I second. Okay, seconded both motions. All right, discussion on the motions. |
| 02:34:22.62 | Unknown | Oh, I'm sorry. |
| 02:34:23.97 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:34:24.03 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:34:24.08 | Mayor Kelly | Two minutes. |
| 02:34:24.52 | Unknown | I, I, |
| 02:34:24.88 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:34:24.93 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:34:24.95 | Mayor Kelly | it. |
| 02:34:25.03 | Unknown | Yes. |
| 02:34:25.54 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:34:25.66 | Unknown | I'm sorry, I seconded Jonathan's motion. I'd like to amend that second motion to omit sweet speech. that was a good one. |
| 02:34:38.48 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:34:38.50 | Unknown | of motion. |
| 02:34:38.97 | Unknown | you |
| 02:34:39.46 | Unknown | Well, her motion was to admit speed speech. She did not comment on the... I'll second John. |
| 02:34:39.49 | Unknown | Well, |
| 02:34:42.85 | Mayor Kelly | I'll second John. Thank you. |
| 02:34:44.18 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:34:44.44 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:34:45.13 | Mayor Kelly | Okay, that's fine, but if you have... No, I don't accept the amendment. Okay, so we've got two motions on the table. Okay, all right. And we have both motions and seconded. Okay. All right, so now is discussion time. So who would like to discuss first? Would you like to discuss? |
| 02:34:49.16 | Mayor Kelly | Yeah. |
| 02:34:49.97 | Unknown | THE END OF |
| 02:34:50.23 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:34:50.24 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:34:52.32 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:34:52.35 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:34:52.40 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:34:52.42 | Unknown | Okay. |
| 02:34:52.98 | Dorothy Gibson | I'm going to see you. |
| 02:34:53.28 | Debbie (City Clerk) | Amen. |
| 02:34:53.50 | Dorothy Gibson | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 02:34:53.77 | Unknown | All right. |
| 02:34:57.38 | Unknown | No comment. Okay. |
| 02:35:03.79 | Unknown | Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Okay, so the reason I seconded Council Member Ford's motion, I really support this water trail idea. I think it's fabulous. I think it's great. It connects people with water. And I like the idea that it's non-motorized because there's just something authentic about that. And I know a lot of sailors and I know a lot of live aboards. And so, however, I think Queens Beach, |
| 02:35:03.84 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you, Mr. Mayor. |
| 02:35:33.53 | Unknown | looking at not only the location of Swedes Beach and the environment. of Swede speech, the infrastructure of Swede speech, but the historic nature of those peers. I understand that you're saying there's access now, but I think it's quite daunting for anyone. It's not inviting. I have never seen Personally, I've never seen. It might happen, but I've never seen a non-motorized boat land at Swede's Beach. And I would like to see, personally, I'm concerned about city liabilities with regards to those piers. I think they're hard to navigate, very hard, especially with those currents. They're quite strong. And I'm also concerned just about the historic impact of increased traffic in that area. Increased traffic going through, maneuvering around those piers, landing on that little beach, and just raises my concern. I like all of the other landings. I love the addition of Cass Marina. I love the idea. I have an issue with Swedes Beach included on that. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. |
| 02:36:52.50 | Mayor Kelly | Jonah? Okay. Thank you. |
| 02:36:57.16 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 02:36:57.83 | Mayor Kelly | I'm not sure. |
| 02:36:58.12 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. |
| 02:36:58.19 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:36:58.34 | Councilmember Ford | I'd just like to clarify that my motion was to remove sweet speech and keep the other sites. Okay, clarify that motion. |
| 02:37:05.80 | Mayor Kelly | Okay, clarify that motion. All right. All right, I'll take my three minutes. I'm a firm believer in public access to public lands. I hike in Marin, all over Marin. There's spots where there are no people, spots where there are a lot of people. But I believe everyone should have access to all the public lands. I think that because currents are tough out there and because it's a long way from everything, very few people will probably stop at Swedes Beach. But those that do will have a special experience. And I think that we are, as we go through this and develop funds to do these things, we will be able to deal with the problems as they occur to improve the area so that it can be used safely and without destruction to the premises. But I don't want to do anything that turns it into a private beach. And it seems to me that this would move in that direction. So with that being said, we'll call for the motion on the second – vote on the second motion first. So would you – |
| 02:38:19.56 | Unknown | I would like to comment, Mr. Mayor, if I may. One minute. One minute. Just comment on the, I heard a comment about private beach. That beach is frequented by residents all over Sausalito. It is a favorite spot for dog walking, for picnicking, for just sitting and thinking about life. I mean, it is so, so well loved and used by the residents. It is a far cry, in my opinion, from being anywhere near a private beach. And the spirit of this motion that Council Member Ford put forth and I seconded |
| 02:38:21.77 | Mayor Kelly | If I may, one minute. |
| 02:39:05.09 | Unknown | is not to create a private beach, if anything, it's to preserve the historic nature of that beach and its legacy from I forget her name, for the reason... |
| 02:39:23.43 | Unknown | out of school. |
| 02:39:24.66 | Unknown | No, it was Jean... |
| 02:39:24.76 | Unknown | No. |
| 02:39:28.06 | Unknown | Anyway, her legacy in establishing it for residents, I think it was very important. |
| 02:39:32.19 | Councilmember Ford | And Mr. Mayor, I'd like a minute. Okay. I'd just like to add to that because we do have so many visitors there. It is well used, and it's well used by little children who come there and throw rocks in the water. That's their favorite entertainment. And people who walk their dogs and kayakers and rowers and paddle boarders who come up on the beach who are local who know about the beach. And that's great. We're not trying to restrict access at all What I'm suggesting is we don't want to restrict access, we just don't want to advertise it as a place to come to Because when you start doing that, then it infringes upon the enjoyment of our local residents. And I can't even imagine, you know, if I'm their family with a couple of little children and they're running around and I've got my dogs too. And then you have, you know, 20, 30, kayakers come up. |
| 02:40:40.47 | Unknown | All right. Um, I just put a record, I don't want to get into the debate of it, but the, because I'll only get myself in trouble, but the, with somebody somewhere. But the, you know, I include sweet speech, But obviously anything that gets constructed in any of these locations will go through a process for review of impacts, whether it's environmental, I don't know how people are gonna be ramming the old peer heads out there and destroying them, for whether it's historical. And whatever the impacts are, it will come back through the public process. People will have a way to just go through this and see if there's going to be a major impact through whatever is proposed there at any of these locations. So this isn't the end of anything. And people store their kayaks there. And as Carolyn Will knows, the people kayak there all the time since she lives right on the beach. So, you know, it's a well-used beach by a lot of different watercrafts. So I don't perceive the impacts changing greatly. But it'll have the ability to come back through the public process. |
| 02:41:51.66 | Councilmember Ford | Mr. Mayor. |
| 02:41:55.69 | Councilmember Ford | Thank you. Mr. Mayor, it's not a question, I think Councilmember Leone misunderstood. It's not a question of building anything there. There would be... no reason to build a dock or anything else and in fact the staff says it would be |
| 02:42:13.57 | Unknown | anything. |
| 02:42:17.09 | Councilmember Ford | a landing spot and The issue is the numbers, again, the numbers of the people, and I will support the issue of historical pilings there, but also dangerous. There is a submarine target. that has been used for a breakwater that has all kinds of iron sticking up. |
| 02:42:43.23 | Unknown | Iron. |
| 02:42:45.32 | Councilmember Ford | that if you're not aware of it, you can go over that and ruin your boat. So there are some issues with it, but the main thing is the numbers of people frequenting it. |
| 02:42:55.35 | Unknown | the new. |
| 02:42:58.79 | Councilmember Ford | What? |
| 02:42:58.89 | Unknown | Mr. Mayor, I'd like to make one last comment, if I may, because I forgot to mention the cormorons. They're in the morning. The cormorons are on the pilings, and it's so pristine. I'm an Audubon member, and I just am, I would like to see us take a look at, you know, the wildlife, the bird life there as well, because the pelicans and the cormorons frequent those pilings, and it really is truly a beautiful sight. |
| 02:43:01.32 | Councilmember Ford | Thank you. |
| 02:43:33.91 | Mayor Kelly | All right, call the questions, second. |
| 02:43:36.49 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. Yeah, just real quickly. It's a public. It's for the public. It's not something that we hide. As far as putting the word out there, I think we'll just have to watch it and see how it goes. But still, it's public. It's open. And the public should have the opportunity to use it. |
| 02:43:36.79 | Mayor Kelly | Yeah. |
| 02:44:00.42 | Mayor Kelly | if they wish. |
| 02:44:01.68 | Mayor Kelly | Mr. Mayor? If we're just going to keep rebutting each other as we're probably... Well, I think we need to discuss it. |
| 02:44:02.16 | Councilmember Ford | Thank you. |
| 02:44:05.68 | Councilmember Ford | Well, I think we need to discuss it. I just want to comment to Councilmember Weiner's comment. One minute. The once the horse is out of the barn, you know, you can't get it back in. Once you let it out. then you've got a problem. So there is no way of knowing how many people will visit that beach once you put it on the trail. So that's the issue. |
| 02:44:35.40 | Mayor Kelly | Okay, we vote on the second motion first, and the first motion second if the second motion doesn't pass. The second motion is to notice regarding Sausalito sites that become part of the, I'm sorry, motion to work with the water trail program to consider designated potential San Francisco Bay Area water trail sites within the city of Sausalito. So would you call the roll, Kevin? |
| 02:44:53.18 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | So |
| 02:44:57.84 | Debbie (City Clerk) | Councilmember Pfeiffer. |
| 02:45:00.26 | Unknown | No, not with the inclusion of sweet speech. |
| 02:45:03.70 | Debbie (City Clerk) | Vice Mayor Leon. |
| 02:45:05.57 | Unknown | Yes. |
| 02:45:07.41 | Debbie (City Clerk) | Councilmember Ford. |
| 02:45:09.10 | Councilmember Ford | No, Swede speech being the issue. |
| 02:45:11.75 | Debbie (City Clerk) | Councilmember Weiner. |
| 02:45:13.86 | Mayor Kelly | Yes, and it's open to the public. |
| 02:45:16.25 | Debbie (City Clerk) | Mayor Kelly. |
| 02:45:17.89 | Mayor Kelly | Yes. So then that takes the first motion off the table All right, we are ready to move to the first item of the consent calendar, which we moved over, and that is to receive and file annual boards. Two-minute break? Okay, sure. Really try to hold it two minutes so we can get out of here. Oh, I see. Hold it. Number A, which is now 6D, receive and file annual boards commission's vacancy list pursuant to the MADI-Approving List Act. |
| 02:45:36.40 | Unknown | Yeah. Oh, I see him. |
| 02:45:51.12 | Councilmember Ford | Mr. Mayor? Yes. May I make one quick comment? |
| 02:45:51.84 | Mayor Kelly | Yes. Yes. |
| 02:45:55.17 | Councilmember Ford | you Okay. I would just like to thank you for enforcing Rosenberg's Rules of Order. This meeting has been run extremely well, and it is a civil meeting, and I very much appreciate it. So thank you. |
| 02:46:11.42 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you, and we'll continue to do that. All right, staff, first of all, maybe we can talk about who pulled this, Linda? Thank you. |
| 02:46:20.29 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:46:20.63 | Mayor Kelly | you |
| 02:46:20.70 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:46:20.72 | Mayor Kelly | Okay. |
| 02:46:20.82 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. |
| 02:46:23.09 | Mayor Kelly | Yeah, the METI. list, which is List of boards and permissions. |
| 02:46:29.46 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:46:29.59 | Unknown | you |
| 02:46:29.64 | Unknown | Oh, yeah. |
| 02:46:30.10 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:46:31.87 | Mayor Kelly | Is there a particular? |
| 02:46:32.97 | Unknown | Thank you, Mr. Mayor. This goes back to, I just had two things I wanted to mention. And so this could be a very short discussion, but I know that I had at a prior meeting asked Mary Wagner, where in the city code or law does it allow a board or commission member who has reached the end of their term to continue to serve without reappointment? I know that Mary has said that it is... Sorry, Mary. It just came in. Of course, you're always here, the one time when you leave. |
| 02:47:09.67 | Unknown | came in. |
| 02:47:09.99 | Unknown | Of course. |
| 02:47:11.97 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:47:12.03 | Unknown | You're on. |
| 02:47:15.71 | Unknown | And so, So Mary, we're on the Boards and Commissions thing, and coming back to my old question, And the reason I'm asking this question is because, you know, we have members here that have had their terms expire, and I'm concerned. Because I look at the Planning Commission and you've got three members whose term expired in May and And so we're going on, what, almost eight months here. And, um... I'm concerned the city could be open to litigation given the three members have exceeded their terms. So my question is, Mary, where in city code does it allow a board or commission member who has reached the end of their term, as in the three planning commissioners in May, to continue to serve without just reappointing them. To me, I don't understand why we just don't reappoint them. |
| 02:48:12.80 | Debbie (City Clerk) | you |
| 02:48:13.00 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:48:13.04 | Debbie (City Clerk) | Thank you. |
| 02:48:13.05 | Unknown | Excuse me, ma'am. |
| 02:48:14.03 | Debbie (City Clerk) | Mayor Kelly, this is my staff report. That's okay. And I just wanted to make it very clear. |
| 02:48:15.18 | Unknown | This is my Oh! Okay. That's right. |
| 02:48:21.05 | Debbie (City Clerk) | the only topic on this item is the fact that I, as a city clerk, am required by law to make a posting. I posted this on, I posted this list on December the 16th. Once I post it, I'm required by law to notify you that I posted it. Thank you. |
| 02:48:41.00 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. That's what this is just. So let me see if I can shortcut this. I will promise to put boards and commissions and discussion of them as well as appointments on the earliest date I can get where we don't have a terribly crowded calendar, which will probably be February 3rd at the latest. And we will review the boards and we will talk about that and Mary will weigh in on the issues of appointments and not appointments and so on. you |
| 02:49:08.88 | Mary Wagner | And Mr. Mayor, if I may, we've had this discussion numerous times, and I understand Councilmember Pfeiffer's point, but I think it's important to reiterate that it's been consistently the City's practice, at least since I have been here, that if someone has |
| 02:49:11.27 | Mayor Kelly | Yeah, many times. |
| 02:49:24.03 | Mary Wagner | reached an end of a term but is willing to continue to serve on that board or commission, they have been allowed to do so until the council takes action to reappoint them. And the question specifically was, does it endanger the decisions of the city? And I do not believe it does because I think the city has a record of having that as its practice. |
| 02:49:32.15 | Mayor Kelly | and just serve the will. |
| 02:49:33.70 | Unknown | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 02:49:45.75 | Mayor Kelly | Okay. So we'll take that issue up again if we have to at another time. So all this is is just a filing of a report that Debbie has to do. |
| 02:49:53.26 | Unknown | Oh, yeah, I understand that the nature of it, I saw it as an opportunity because she did such a good job of highlighting all of the terms that had expired. And I had heard Mary's response. |
| 02:50:06.82 | Mayor Kelly | but it's narrowly focused. |
| 02:50:09.05 | Unknown | Yes. Okay, thank you, Mr. Mayor. |
| 02:50:09.07 | Mayor Kelly | Yes. Okay, thank you, Mr. Mayor. |
| 02:50:11.97 | Unknown | I'm not. |
| 02:50:12.04 | Mayor Kelly | MOTION. |
| 02:50:12.46 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:50:12.48 | Mayor Kelly | THE FAMILY. |
| 02:50:12.51 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:50:12.55 | Unknown | I move to receive and file the annual Board's Commission's vacancy list pursuant to the MADI Appointive List Act. Is there a second? I'll second it. |
| 02:50:12.68 | Unknown | Uh, |
| 02:50:14.75 | Unknown | We'll be right back. |
| 02:50:14.81 | Mayor Kelly | I'm sorry. |
| 02:50:18.65 | Mayor Kelly | Okay. All in favor? |
| 02:50:22.45 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:50:22.47 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:50:22.55 | Mayor Kelly | I... Thank you. |
| 02:50:23.09 | Mayor Kelly | Aye. Opposed? Yes. Okay. Passes. Next item was the council meeting agenda. |
| 02:50:30.65 | Councilmember Ford | Mr. Mayor, I pulled that item. I would like to move that the council accept the city council meeting schedule as amended except for the July 31st date and further that the |
| 02:50:33.25 | Mayor Kelly | Okay. |
| 02:50:50.36 | Councilmember Ford | Council followed the normal process of having a planning commission review Thank you. first, followed by a city council review for the housing element. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. |
| 02:51:01.45 | Mayor Kelly | Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. We're just on the meeting schedule. |
| 02:51:03.54 | Councilmember Ford | just under the This is just approval. The meeting schedule shows that there's a joint planning |
| 02:51:05.55 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:51:05.58 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:51:05.78 | Unknown | the truth. |
| 02:51:06.41 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:51:06.43 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 02:51:13.61 | Councilmember Ford | and city council meeting that will be scheduled for, I don't know, one of the dates was January 31st, which I can't make. |
| 02:51:22.78 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:51:22.98 | Councilmember Ford | it. |
| 02:51:23.71 | Mayor Kelly | And we already approved that. That's not what I do. That was approved previous. This is an amendment. |
| 02:51:27.72 | Adam Politzer | Yeah, that was... That was a, if I can just clarify, Mr. Mayor. the schedule that was in the council package just went through our regular meeting schedules. I think that we said that there may be a joint meeting of the Council and the Planning Commission in January, but we hadn't yet confirmed the date or the time. and I've been working with the Community Development Director on identifying dates and I put that request out to the council late this afternoon asking for their availability for a special meeting of the council and the planning commission for either the 23rd or the 30th which are Mondays with some flexibility that we may need to have more than one regular, than than one special meeting on the subject in regards to the housing element. But that there's a separation between what's before you tonight and that request that's |
| 02:52:34.30 | Mayor Kelly | That's not part of it. Yeah. This is just specifically around the dates on February 14th, July 24th. Okay. All right. And we'll be doing February 7th and 31st. |
| 02:52:43.36 | Councilmember Ford | July 24th. Okay. All right. Okay, and I think I have sent you all my objections to the procedure. The other issue is not a correct, not a correct. All right. Then let me move that the council accept the city council schedule as amended except for the July 31st date. What's the, what's the? |
| 02:52:51.78 | Mayor Kelly | the other issue, but the other issue is not a correct, is not a correct answer. |
| 02:52:55.14 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:53:03.10 | Councilmember Ford | It was recommended that July 24th be moved to July 31st. Right, that was the conversation. |
| 02:53:11.45 | Mayor Kelly | Right. it. |
| 02:53:12.65 | Councilmember Ford | Thank you. |
| 02:53:12.68 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:53:12.72 | Councilmember Ford | me. Oh, well I can't make. I can't make the 24th. The 31st. Yeah. OK, I thought it was because of the back-to-back meetings. No, it was me. |
| 02:53:16.48 | Mayor Kelly | This is... |
| 02:53:16.70 | Unknown | for |
| 02:53:17.23 | Mayor Kelly | Yes. |
| 02:53:18.76 | Unknown | Okay. |
| 02:53:19.45 | Mayor Kelly | So... |
| 02:53:20.11 | Unknown | because of the back-to-back |
| 02:53:21.29 | Unknown | meetings. |
| 02:53:22.79 | Unknown | Whoa. |
| 02:53:25.68 | Councilmember Ford | . |
| 02:53:26.98 | Adam Politzer | We were back to the job in the first meeting in August. |
| 02:53:33.34 | Mayor Kelly | Oh, I'd hate to do that. Yeah, no. |
| 02:53:35.57 | Councilmember Ford | Yeah, no, I don't want to do that. |
| 02:53:37.46 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:53:38.28 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:53:40.16 | Councilmember Ford | Can we make it the first? Well, no, because of the 4th of July. |
| 02:53:49.08 | Councilmember Ford | Okay, I will try to work around that. |
| 02:53:52.70 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. All right, so we have a motion to approve changes. |
| 02:53:57.45 | Councilmember Ford | I withdraw it. Oh, oh, oh. I move that we approve the changes. |
| 02:53:59.48 | Mayor Kelly | Oh, oh, oh. |
| 02:54:00.93 | Mayor Kelly | I move that we approve the changes. |
| 02:54:05.32 | Mayor Kelly | All right. Hello, Faber. |
| 02:54:06.52 | Mayor Kelly | Aye. |
| 02:54:07.12 | Mayor Kelly | Aye. Aye. Opposed? No. All right, that takes care of that one. Then we're down to... |
| 02:54:13.03 | Unknown | Amen. |
| 02:54:13.82 | Mayor Kelly | RECEIVE AND FILE MEETING NOTES FROM THE NOVEMBER 16TH FINANCE COMMITTEE AND HOMEL MET COMMITTEE MEETINGS. |
| 02:54:14.82 | Unknown | THE CITY. |
| 02:54:21.59 | Councilmember Ford | I call that. |
| 02:54:29.01 | Councilmember Ford | That was for Right. Oh, my question on that was what is the OKF? And Charlie, I asked it of Charlie, and he already asked. You answered it. Yes. You OK with that? I'm OK with that. Now, in terms of the OMIT, I'd like to just hear a little bit more about where we stand with Heather Richards' progress in gaining cooperation with the cruising club, that part of it. |
| 02:54:44.33 | Unknown | Thank you. Yeah. |
| 02:54:45.18 | Unknown | Yes. Yes. |
| 02:54:46.14 | Unknown | Bye. Now in turn. |
| 02:55:03.03 | Mary Wagner | I've prepared a draft that will go out to Heather this week to look at a letter of intent to lease the property. I'll get her comments back on that and assuming that it's in a format to bring it to you, we'll bring it to you for your consideration. at the second meeting in January. |
| 02:55:18.69 | Councilmember Ford | Could I... Could I see a copy of that now just to get up to speed on what's going on? |
| 02:55:24.19 | Mary Wagner | I haven't circulated the draft to even other city staff yet. I need to finalize the draft. I would, normal process would be to finalize the draft, get input from the other party and then give it to the council for review. There's not a there's no draft that's been even looked at by Heather yet. |
| 02:55:40.16 | Mayor Kelly | I'm just going to go. |
| 02:55:44.24 | Mayor Kelly | So I'll say at the same time. |
| 02:55:45.59 | Councilmember Ford | Well, okay. Thank you. Thank you. |
| 02:55:47.26 | Mayor Kelly | Yeah. |
| 02:55:47.33 | Councilmember Ford | Yeah, it's just... |
| 02:55:47.55 | Mary Wagner | Yeah, it's just... I would suggest actually the proposals online, and I think you guys have... Oh, I have the proposal. I've read the proposal. I was just curious. Yeah, the lease or the intent to lease is just kind of a... Celebrity intent....a boiling down of that information. |
| 02:55:52.39 | Councilmember Ford | Oh, I have the proposal. I've read the proposal. I was just curious. |
| 02:56:00.05 | Councilmember Ford | THE FAMILY. |
| 02:56:00.24 | Mayor Kelly | and It has no force in effect and we all see it at the same time. Yeah. It's going to be ongoing. |
| 02:56:06.50 | Councilmember Ford | you all |
| 02:56:07.63 | Mary Wagner | Yeah. |
| 02:56:09.55 | Mayor Kelly | Okay. You okay? All right. All right. Can you, yeah? Sure. I'm sorry I haven't been taking public comments. |
| 02:56:10.80 | Mary Wagner | All right. All right. |
| 02:56:18.55 | Peter Van Meter | Well, it's sort of on this item, Peter Van Meter, Cloud View, Circle. Please change the name of that OMIT committee to something so the general public knows what the hell it is. Thank you. |
| 02:56:30.06 | Unknown | Thank you. Good idea. |
| 02:56:30.88 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. If you have any suggestions, send it to us. Oh, yeah. Outreach, MLK, IT, and transportation. That's the four. |
| 02:56:35.29 | Unknown | . Bye. |
| 02:56:42.71 | Unknown | What, the history of it? |
| 02:56:44.60 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 02:56:45.09 | Mayor Kelly | I was a first member. |
| 02:56:46.02 | Unknown | Yeah. I was at first. |
| 02:56:48.42 | Mayor Kelly | Yeah. Along with Paul Albright. Paul Albright. He named it. He actually named it. You've got to blame him. |
| 02:56:49.93 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:56:49.97 | Councilmember Ford | All over. |
| 02:56:52.06 | Unknown | He actually named it. |
| 02:56:53.19 | Councilmember Ford | I'm going to blame it. |
| 02:56:54.34 | Mayor Kelly | He won't end. |
| 02:56:54.46 | Councilmember Ford | Wasn't it created for him? |
| 02:56:55.86 | Mayor Kelly | He wanted to add voters and call it vomit. |
| 02:57:00.09 | Unknown | I swear, I swear he said that. I swear he said that. |
| 02:57:01.93 | Councilmember Ford | Sorry, sir. Thank you. |
| 02:57:02.94 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:57:03.72 | Mayor Kelly | Okay. We'll come up with a better name. So any other issues on the committee? All right. Can we have a motion to... |
| 02:57:03.74 | Unknown | Okay. |
| 02:57:04.61 | Councilmember Ford | Well, I'm sorry. |
| 02:57:10.74 | Councilmember Ford | Yeah, I move we receive and file the Finance Committee and O'Meak Committee minutes. |
| 02:57:10.98 | Mayor Kelly | I move we... You should confirm. |
| 02:57:17.69 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 02:57:18.01 | Mayor Kelly | I'll second it. |
| 02:57:19.62 | Mayor Kelly | All in favor? |
| 02:57:20.39 | Mayor Kelly | Bye. Bye. |
| 02:57:20.44 | Mayor Kelly | Aye. Aye. Opposed? All right. We're down to G. Adopt resolution approving and authorizing city manager agreements blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Is that yours? |
| 02:57:29.54 | Unknown | Yeah, that's mine. So I pulled this one and Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So, and this is not, you can believe me or not, and Bill can believe me or not, not to cast any aspersions on Bill Warner, but we passed two things. The council passed during you one of my terms as mayor, a service bidding requirement that was similar to... our capital project bidding requirement. That anything over a certain dollar amount had to go out to multiple bids. Um... which this has not. This contract is a sizable contract, $85,000, close to $86,000. The design concept that was submitted and approved in one meeting, which is amazing for anything, it's also, without any design review, I think it goes to the Planning Commission certainly. Um, that's one thing to have a planning commissioner who wants to sort of chip in and help out and come up with a better scenario for whether it's a bus stop which I think Barry Peterson did. I can't remember if that was during his time on the planning commission. but to be hired and paid for and this is issue number two, by the city, it's just whether it violates any of the conflict of interest |
| 02:58:54.37 | Unknown | regulations that we have or that the state has, it's almost besides the point. It almost is, perception is reality in these types of things. Whether you like the design or not, I just find it a little concerning that we're hiring boards and commissioners as to be paid sizable amounts of money to do anything. Um, So, versus if people are volunteering their time all the time, Don Olson or Michael or whoever. So my concern here is first of all that it was not bid out And secondly, I'm just a little uncomfortable with the idea that we're hiring people who are on our board and commissions to do anything as a contract with the city. So that was my my clarification is, A, has this been bid out according to those policies, and that's the first thing. |
| 02:59:49.81 | Jonathon Goldman | Mr. Mayor, your public works director, Jonathan Goldman. I'm certainly happy to try and address that first point. I didn't bring a copy of the entire policy with me, but as indicated in the staff report, |
| 02:59:56.07 | Unknown | Peace. |
| 02:59:56.39 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:00:09.23 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. The department head is responsible for discharging obligations under the ordinance. And so I'm the department head responsible for procuring the design services with the objective of delivering the downtown restrooms. In my opinion, the proposal that was received from Warner, in the context of the six prior proposals received from Royston Honomoto, Michael Rex and Associates, and one invitation to members of the Chamber of Commerce at large for proposals satisfies the intent of the ordinance. further. the Council directed that the Warner concept be developed and delivered. And in my judgment, there's not another way to provide, to deliver the Werner concept without hiring Werner to take it through the Planning Commission, which is currently scheduled to be heard on the 18th. and to prepare the construction documents and administer construction without hiring Werner and I agree that that represents a Thank you. a difficult circumstance that someone might abstract, try to take advantage of. but in my evaluation of the rates and the fees that have been proposed I don't think we're being taken advantage of. And I think that retaining Werner under these circumstances does genuinely represent the best value to the people of the city of Sausalito. the best value in terms of dollars spent and ability to deliver replacement restrooms as soon as possible, given the course that we've been on to date. With respect to the second question, that's not my domain, and I'm not going to pretend to respond to it. |
| 03:02:18.61 | Unknown | But I mean, I think it's different concepts ask people if they have conceptual ideas than it is to say, here's a project bid on it versus Michael doing some sketches of what he think would be appropriate there. I mean, that's a big jump to me from that to this. And it wasn't discussed at the hearing when we first heard at the council meeting that we were gonna actually hire one of these architects to design and go into the construction document stage of this project. Now, I understand you're under a different set of other pressures on you to move quickly, partly because this council has gone around in circles about the bathrooms for a year and a half now, or maybe longer. but. I know it's a big sum of money to be keeping inside a tent where if your people talk about transparency consistently and constantly, are voting to give this to a friend of theirs without public bidding. Now again, I don't distrust Mr. Werner. I think he's a good architect. He's a stand-up guy. So it's not even had anything to do with him as an individual. It could be anybody. uh, It's just the process is not being followed here, that if you really are a champion of transparency, this is not it. |
| 03:03:47.18 | Jonathon Goldman | Mr. Mayor, again, I respectfully disagree. In my judgment, and certainly the council's in a position to tell me that I'm wrong, but in my judgment, the process as described in the ordinance has been followed. and it is a competitive process, and it was not competed, I think, in the context that you might be saying that you think it should, but I'm satisfied that the competitive process has provided Thank you. an avenue that gives the community the best value at trying to deliver the project that we've received. So I disagree with your opinion that it was not competitively bid. |
| 03:04:38.27 | Mayor Kelly | Mary Williams. |
| 03:04:39.43 | Unknown | Yeah, no, definitely. Not so much. I don't think it's a fault. I'm not faulting Jonathan here. I think a serial movement of this project is not the same as here's a bid, give me something that is for the whole cost of everything so I know what I'm getting myself into. I think that's different and Jonathan and I can disagree on that one. And no, I'm not casting aspersions towards his judgment. But I think that's |
| 03:04:53.20 | Unknown | know what I'm saying. |
| 03:04:59.41 | Unknown | I cast |
| 03:05:06.18 | Unknown | But does this fall underneath the services, competitive bidding, whatever we call it that? |
| 03:05:12.22 | Mary Wagner | I think the section that's being referred to is 3.30.510 of the city's code, specifically subsection D, and this deals with the context of professional services that are defined and would include clearly architectural services. What it says is, as Mr. Goldman indicated, it's the department head's responsibility And in addition that if it's over 25,000 has to be approved by a Reservoir of the City Council Recommendation for award should be pursuant to and based on competitive proposals, however, It is recognized that the City's need for professional or special services will vary from situation to situation and accordingly flexibility will be provided in determining the appropriate evaluation and selection process to be used in each specific circumstance. So I think the council could find that based on the |
| 03:06:02.41 | Unknown | So, |
| 03:06:06.50 | Mary Wagner | the history and the process Mr. Goldman described, that you're falling within that special circumstance and flexibility that's built into the ordinance in the context of professional services. |
| 03:06:19.92 | Unknown | And as far as the appearance of you know, when you look at the actual appointment language to this, it refers not to, so Mr. Warner's not going to represent this project to the Planning Commission. |
| 03:06:32.31 | Mary Wagner | That would be a conflict under the FBPC regulations. So Mr. Werner, because he's a city planning commissioner, can't receive income over a certain amount for a specific project that's in front of the commission. It's a direct conflict. So he would not be the individual presenting the proposal to the city, to the Planning Commission, nor would he be sitting as a Planning Commissioner during the presentation and decision on that item. |
| 03:07:02.72 | Mayor Kelly | We had, when we built the fire station, we started out with one architect. We got down the road a piece and had great difficulties and ended up hiring an entirely different architect that had never competed for the job. Is that a parallel set of circumstances? |
| 03:07:25.68 | Mary Wagner | I'm trying to remember the timing of that. This change to the ordinance was adopted in 2009. |
| 03:07:31.64 | Mayor Kelly | Ah. Thank you. |
| 03:07:32.85 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:07:33.01 | Mayor Kelly | Okay, so it probably was before that. |
| 03:07:34.96 | Unknown | Yeah, I mean I put that in. You know, I put, because I was not with that in mind. But I mean you should apply it evenly, because so much of the city's budget is services versus |
| 03:07:35.00 | Mayor Kelly | Yeah. |
| 03:07:40.11 | Mayor Kelly | Yeah. |
| 03:07:40.13 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | Yeah. |
| 03:07:40.16 | Mayor Kelly | You're a friend. |
| 03:07:40.92 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | Bye. |
| 03:07:40.95 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 03:07:40.97 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | Thank you. |
| 03:07:41.09 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 03:07:41.19 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | Thank you. |
| 03:07:41.27 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. |
| 03:07:46.34 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 03:07:47.65 | Unknown | versus capital projects. Again, and Bill can be pissed at me, and usually he is anyway, and probably rightly so, but it just doesn't look good, even if it's as squeaky clean as you could ever get. |
| 03:07:55.72 | Unknown | probably rightly so. |
| 03:08:05.09 | Unknown | And I appreciate his efforts in sort of saving us from a portable or pre-fab bathroom, perhaps. I don't know. It just makes me very uncomfortable. |
| 03:08:21.25 | Mayor Kelly | I understand, and I think this is an unusual and unique circumstance. I'm sort of looking out at the greater good, which is the community, the business community, the fact that we haven't been able to get a restroom built there, and suddenly I have a restroom in front of me that I can actually feel good about. And I also have, I must say, Bill Werner and I worked closely together on the fire department. And if I were to sit and tell you how many hours we spent together, and he gave up all his time at zero cost to the city of Sausalito. He literally designed the buildings that you're looking at out there and then turned them over to the... |
| 03:09:03.49 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:09:03.51 | Mayor Kelly | I agree, and I sat through many of those meetings. But that's neither here. |
| 03:09:03.52 | Unknown | I agree, and I sat through many of those meetings. But that's neither year nor doubt. |
| 03:09:08.98 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. Well, it helps me think that the integrity of what we're doing |
| 03:09:12.77 | Unknown | I'm not telling his integrity. And I said that before. I do not question his integrity. Is this the weird? |
| 03:09:17.18 | Mayor Kelly | No, no, I'm not. The integrity of what we're doing, I think, is in the greater good and has no, you know, someone could look at it and say, well, you didn't exactly run by your ordinance and the commission should have done that. But I think that for me, the greater good is being served here. And I know that our integrity as a council and as a staff is intact. |
| 03:09:19.35 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 03:09:19.69 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:09:19.72 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:09:27.74 | Unknown | Mr. Mayor. |
| 03:09:41.76 | Unknown | Mr. Mayor, may I comment? So I know I'm comfortable with my integrity on this because I remember when Mr. Goldman presented this project to us and said the process he had used was to query council chamber members. And at that point I said, well, why don't we open up the the RPQ to everyone. And the record will show and the video that the council majority did not support me on that, including Councilmember Leon. |
| 03:10:19.48 | Unknown | That's not at the hearing where you approved this. Point of order, Mr. Mayor. That was at a different point in this process. |
| 03:10:21.05 | Unknown | Point of order, Mr. May. |
| 03:10:23.02 | Unknown | That was at a different point in the process. Let me get your background and track |
| 03:10:26.65 | Unknown | and I am. |
| 03:10:26.67 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:10:26.72 | Unknown | It was when we were hearing Michael Rex and |
| 03:10:29.91 | Unknown | The phone call records that you said you had. Point of order, Mr. Mayor. You're questioning how difficult it is. Don't make stuff up. |
| 03:10:31.65 | Unknown | Point of order, Mr. Mayor. |
| 03:10:36.35 | Mayor Kelly | Okay, but wait a minute and take your minute and... I'm not making this up. Okay, let's go. When I remember distinct... Keep on a point. Thank you. |
| 03:10:37.58 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:10:38.93 | Unknown | I'm not making this up. Okay. When I remember distinctly. You're on a point. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I remember distinctly when Mr. Goldman presented this, and I remember looking at Michael Rex's and the Mill Valley vendor and asking Mr. Goldman about the process. I said, who did you send this bid out to? Who received the RFP? and he relayed the process to me and it was the Council Majority's opinion that it was Mr. Goldman's role, in his capacity as Director, to navigate this process and to use this judgment in terms of seeking RFPs. And the council majority was comfortable with that. I think that we're almost a year later, a lot of water under the bridge here, and Tempest Fugit with regards to the sanitary conditions downtown. And lo and behold, we have a resident who does a design free I mean, and as a consummate professional, And it's a beautiful design, and we are saving residents' taxpayer dollars. The schedule is immediate, And I'm very impressed with that. So that is my opinion. And I feel comfortable with that, having questioned the process in the beginning and gone through this for the past, what, year and a half. |
| 03:12:14.84 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. Mr. Mayor? I can't let Leon was sort of asking to speak. Thank you. |
| 03:12:20.66 | Unknown | Correct me if I'm wrong, John. There was no formal RFP for this process at any point in time. There was no document that was issued to design and construct a bathroom in the city of Sausalito, the public restrooms. There was no formal RFP. There was. |
| 03:12:38.63 | Jonathon Goldman | was. |
| 03:12:38.88 | Unknown | Thank you. Not for No, there wasn't. There was no formal RFP that was sent out, that was sent through the clearinghouse, all the other nonsense for this. There was for that portable bathroom, the prefab. |
| 03:12:42.83 | Unknown | was. MR. |
| 03:12:43.74 | Jonathon Goldman | I'm sorry. |
| 03:12:44.03 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | I'm sorry. |
| 03:12:44.33 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:12:56.92 | Unknown | construction projects But when it turned into original design and construct, tell me what there was. I'll go back and re-look at the record. |
| 03:13:07.57 | Jonathon Goldman | What was sent before the ROM tech, before the prefabricated design, let me go back to the beginning. My initial request to Council was to award a design contract to Royston Hanamoto based on their experience in the vicinity designing the non-motorized transportation project, etc., etc. Based on the budget that Royston-Honamoto identified at that point, council directed and to some extent based on comments received from Michael Rex, as I recall, Council directed that a more competitive process should be considered. Michael Rex was then invited to prepare a proposal based on the same scope of services. Royston Hanamoto was given an opportunity to sharpen their pencil, having heard from Council and from Michael Rex as to what the issues were. Those two proposals came back to Council. And as I recall, again, there were questions and comments from at least one member of the public about, Um, uh, the process and again went against my recommendation that Royston Hanamoto was the best qualified and best able to deliver that project. On that basis, as I recall, Council gave me the discretion as to whether or maybe not whether, but how widely to advertise, to issue a request for proposals and to broaden the competitive pool. My judgment, based on my judgment, I went through the list of architects that are members of the Chamber of Commerce. As I recall, Bill Werner may have even been included. I know that Don Olson was. And sent a request for proposals to specific professional design firms for the purpose of delivering the restrooms. On the basis of that, I again, as I recall, recommended that Royston Hanamoto be given the work, Council decided that creating a committee in order to get away from a custom design Thank you. product was the best way to go. That's where the Rome Tech thing came from. If you... You mentioned the clearinghouse. The ordinance does not our ordinance nor does state law require that A request for proposals or qualifications for professional services be advertised as a bid, be sent to clearing houses, does not require any of that. Those requirements apply to the delivery of capital projects, public works projects, but neither the state law nor our ordinance requires those criteria be applied to provision of professional services. So the answer to your question is yes, a formal request for proposals was issued. No, it was not advertised widely. It was sent to targeted design professionals based on my judgment as to what would be the most likely way to deliver something that was in the community's interest. In hindsight, obviously, we've spent a long time getting to where we are today, and there are any number of things that I think I probably could have done differently that might have delivered us restrooms already. We're here now, and the council, as they did the ROM-TECH alternative, directed me to work with the Werner, conceptual alternative at its last meeting. I'm here this evening. to tell you how in my judgment, the Werner Alternative can best most expeditiously, most cost-effectively, be delivered. That's all I can do. |
| 03:17:15.68 | Mayor Kelly | Just as a point of information, when you went out to talk to the Chamber and others, I went to Architects in the City, and I actually sent two architects to you to get I don't know if they ever called you or not, trying to gin up a pool of architects so we could get somebody interested in this thing and it was really difficult. None of my guys performed, basically. They didn't want to fool with it. So there was a concerted effort to try to get a broader pool of architects. And I was the one who kept hammering on Royston Hamamoto because the price was so high. The $300,000 range, as I recall. |
| 03:17:31.93 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:17:32.03 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:17:58.06 | Unknown | but I don't think they were proposing original construction. They were incorporating the prefab construction Correct me if I have a fine memory of going to hell in a hand basket. |
| 03:18:05.11 | Mayor Kelly | I wish they had. Well, I think Moistin wasn't even delivering anything. Michael Rex at least had a plan. He was going to do it for $75,000, as I recall, or somewhere of that nature. Did it ring a bell? $75,000 was Michael's plan? Something like that? I don't remember that. |
| 03:18:18.37 | Unknown | I don't remember the bell in there. But, okay, so if my memory is fuzzy, and I apologize to Jonathan, but it's a longer sequence of events that this seems sort of like this rush to do something because the other things didn't work out the way the city wanted to do. And so when you actually went, again, maybe it's my fuzzy memory, but having a concerted, here's the project, design and build it from original design, I just can't recall there being a, here, go off and give me four bids for this. There have been things that have kind of wound through the process of, we'll come back, give me some discussion, but I don't sit next to your desk every day to know what you're sending out, so I can't claim that, that I know that with any certainty. |
| 03:18:57.44 | Unknown | I hear what. |
| 03:18:57.96 | Unknown | Mr. Mr. President. |
| 03:19:13.00 | Mayor Kelly | I remember two presentations actually. Somebody over in the East Bay presented and Horace and Hamamoto presented and maybe there was a third one part of the package that didn't present. |
| 03:19:13.13 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:19:20.56 | Vicki Nichols | Thank you. |
| 03:19:21.44 | Unknown | Mm-hmm. |
| 03:19:24.19 | Unknown | Yeah, I may be mistaken. But I still think the hiring of a sitting board and commissioner to do a public project, it's just uncomfortable. |
| 03:19:26.53 | Mayor Kelly | So, |
| 03:19:37.00 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:19:37.03 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:19:37.55 | Dorothy Gibson | Thank you. |
| 03:19:37.57 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 03:19:38.53 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:19:40.66 | Mayor Kelly | Yes. |
| 03:19:41.18 | Councilmember Ford | Yes, I agree and it's unusual but there's good reason to do it. I call for the question. |
| 03:19:48.94 | Unknown | I don't think there's a motion on the table. |
| 03:19:52.81 | Councilmember Ford | Oh, I move that we accept item, what is it, 4G. |
| 03:19:59.54 | Mayor Kelly | So you want to adopt a resolution of privilege and authorizing city manager to execute a Yeah, okay. Where are we? I need to get there. Document preparation, construction, blah, blah, blah. Restroom placement. |
| 03:20:05.40 | Councilmember Ford | Yeah, okay, where are we? I need to get there. |
| 03:20:14.42 | Mayor Kelly | Okay. Yes. |
| 03:20:14.95 | Councilmember Ford | Yes. OK. Did you just do it? |
| 03:20:16.53 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 03:20:17.17 | Councilmember Ford | Yeah. |
| 03:20:17.41 | Mayor Kelly | I did it. |
| 03:20:17.83 | Councilmember Ford | Okay. All right. |
| 03:20:17.90 | Mayor Kelly | Okay. Okay. |
| 03:20:21.04 | Unknown | All right. Thank you. |
| 03:20:22.22 | Councilmember Ford | That's it. |
| 03:20:22.32 | Unknown | That's it. |
| 03:20:22.84 | Councilmember Ford | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 03:20:23.00 | Unknown | I'm not sure. |
| 03:20:23.28 | Michael Racks | Thank you. |
| 03:20:23.35 | Unknown | you |
| 03:20:23.92 | Mayor Kelly | outside of that. Thank you. |
| 03:20:24.87 | Mayor Kelly | All right, Debbie, would you call the roll? |
| 03:20:31.67 | Debbie (City Clerk) | Councilmember Pfeiffer. |
| 03:20:33.20 | Unknown | Yes. |
| 03:20:36.26 | Debbie (City Clerk) | Vice Mayor Leon. |
| 03:20:38.12 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 03:20:38.13 | Unknown | I know. |
| 03:20:39.80 | Debbie (City Clerk) | Councilmember Ford. |
| 03:20:40.85 | Mayor Kelly | Yes. |
| 03:20:42.32 | Debbie (City Clerk) | Councilmember Weiner? |
| 03:20:43.62 | Mayor Kelly | Yes. |
| 03:20:45.10 | Debbie (City Clerk) | Mayor Kelly. |
| 03:20:45.83 | Mayor Kelly | Yes. |
| 03:20:49.15 | Mayor Kelly | All right, I think we're down to Thank you. |
| 03:20:51.75 | Debbie (City Clerk) | Thank you. |
| 03:20:51.77 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 03:20:51.97 | Debbie (City Clerk) | you |
| 03:20:52.14 | Mayor Kelly | you City manager information. Thank you. Hurry, it's 1025. No pressure. Make me successful. Happy New Year to you, Mr. |
| 03:21:01.47 | Councilmember Ford | No pressure. |
| 03:21:04.46 | Adam Politzer | Happy New Year to you, Mr. Mayor and council members. |
| 03:21:05.98 | Unknown | Mayor and Council members. Thank you. |
| 03:21:07.83 | Adam Politzer | My New Year's resolution is to be silent here, so I will end my report. No, I can't do that. |
| 03:21:07.85 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:21:08.03 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 03:21:08.15 | Ann Buell | Thank you. |
| 03:21:08.17 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:21:10.43 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 03:21:10.55 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:21:10.57 | Unknown | So. |
| 03:21:10.87 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 03:21:10.99 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:21:15.90 | Adam Politzer | I'm breaking my New Year's resolution. |
| 03:21:17.79 | Unknown | Well, you might just say. |
| 03:21:20.81 | Adam Politzer | So, Just some quick reminders. You may have gotten these notices during the holidays and didn't catch them, but our next MCCNC dinner is in Fairfax on the 25th of this month. And I can't recall who the speaker is, but it did catch my attention. It looked like something of interest to all of us. And I recommend that, again, great opportunity to network with our fellow council members and an opportunity for us to learn and gain knowledge in our profession. So 25th, if you haven't RSVP'd to Debbie, please do so ASAP. I thought I would also just give some quick updates here. As you know, and I'm sure your neighbors and fellow residents have commented, there's a lot of street work going on in town. It's a good thing. A lot of towns can't afford to be doing street work and some significant street work at that. So at the end of at the end of the calendar year, it looked like we had a little over 50% of our streets in two years have been paved. And we're at about 90% right now from talking to our Public Works Director with some real significant accomplishments. The one that I think we're very proud of is San Carlos because it now gives us a connection from Spencer Avenue from the freeway all the way down on a a more drivable surface. And San Carlos, we did not run up against any real challenges that we were worried about We had some on Johnson Street when we did that street a year before. And with that steepness and the narrowness and the turn that it has, and houses on the top side and the bottom side There was a lot of concerned that something may go wrong and it didn't and The neighbors were very patient. and the contractor worked well with them. to try to address their needs because they weren't able to park as they usually do. |
| 03:23:35.96 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:23:37.53 | Adam Politzer | And then Third Street, another significant accomplishment, and hopefully you folks saw the email that was being passed around, I know that Councilmember Leon sent out, a picture or suggested that someone take a picture and that was captured. But a resident on the street or nearby on the street put American flags on everybody's driveway recognizing the great accomplishment of having the road paved there, which was another one of these roads that was really significantly failing. And then they started prepping and will start Watery Street this week, next week. And here's another one that has a long, sordid history, and I was sharing that with one of our residents here that lives on Nevada Street that's in the audience during the break. but a real long history of the city at one point saying that we never accepted that street. when it was handed over. and arguments from the folks that lived on that street originally that They didn't want to pave streets. when we were thinking about paving the street. And so long sordid history has led to the Public Works Department successfully receiving a grant from Safe Routes to School to help close the gap in what it was gonna take to fund that. So now there will be a sidewalk because a lot of the kids walk from Willow Creek Academy in Bayside there down Watery Street, cut through the path that leads you to Coloma and MLK and then on to Marin City. And so now to have a sidewalk that helps connect them to the walking path has helped that street become a reality. So congratulations to the Public Works Director and Todd Teachout and the rest of the crew there for doing what they've done for the last two years. I think it's significant. And as long as Charlie can keep the piggy bank from exploding. next year we'll be continuing to pave streets and make improvements. One other note, we had lunch at Acre Street today, and at noon it was high tide, and there was the water level with cars up to several inches in salt water. But the Public Works Department is working on the fix, and we hope that in the very near future, we have a new system in place there that you folks approved. a couple months ago for us to fix that was going to be able to address the flooding that happens in these types of occasions. And then just a note to the public that's listening and to you folks as you're talking to the public, we haven't yet had the rain season. and they are saying that we may end up having a very concentrated rain system, which is bad news for everybody. It's bad news for the reservoir because the water just runs off and doesn't get captured, but it's also bad news for any place for flooding land movement with the retaining walls that we have in our town in our backyards. of our residents that are old and not as strong as they used to be. don't want anyone to enjoy this weather so much that they don't do the precautions in making sure that their gutters are cleared and that they have proper preparation for any storms that do occur. They will come and we need to be prepared. And again, the fire Public Works Department, the Police Department, have worked closely together to make sure that they're ready to help our residents when those storms come. Any pre-work, as our Public Works Director has stated in the past, that people can do today will be helpful. Last item, and some of you may have heard this. We've all been aware that the United States Post Office has had significant financial challenges, and they are looking at how to either increase revenue or decrease expenditures. And they have a variety of proposals of shutting down post offices. Thank you. at how to either increase revenue or decrease expenditures. And they have a variety of proposals of shutting down post offices. We got notice early this week, or at the end of last week that our post office is looking at their options and the option They are looking at this moment in time and are looking for input. is to downsize their footprint to have a smaller post office, which is good news for us because they're not talking about eliminating a post office, but it's bad news because we don't quite know what services they would eliminate if they have a smaller footprint. The Community Development Department will take the lead on that as they do with any of these types of projects to reach out, meet with them, find out what they're proposing, and then come back to council and give you folks an update in the near future. But thought that that was important for the council to keep their eye on and for the residents to understand that it's an unfortunate consequence that is happening across the nation on the impact of postal service. That concludes my report. Happy to answer any questions. Welcome back. I look forward to a terrific year with all five of you. And I think your staff is up for the challenge and up for a great year of continuing the services that we are proud to provide to you and to our community. |
| 03:29:08.64 | Mayor Kelly | Any questions about them? All right. We've got next is future agenda items. There's like 15 items on this thing. And I went through them, looked at them. I think about half of them belong on the priority calendar list because they're like projects. They're not agenda items or project items. So I'm going to give me a week. Give me the next committee meeting. I'll work on this. I'll suggest I'll make out a schedule. I'll suggest the ones I think ought to be on priority projects as opposed to agendas. And then we'll vote on the agenda items. If we can't agree on them, we'll vote on them because that's the way we do it. And we'll either put them on or eliminate them. One of the two. Okay. All right. So that being said, any council member committee reports? |
| 03:29:26.93 | Unknown | I'm sorry. |
| 03:29:47.84 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:29:47.87 | Unknown | it. |
| 03:29:56.78 | Unknown | I do actually, I don't have a committee report, but I do have a comment about a future agenda item. I know you just said you were going to review things, but, and I know I've mentioned the Arts Commission, you know, many several times over the last two years to get interviews started. So I know it's on there. I just wanted to put another plug on that. But also something new, the housing element process. I am also concerned about the, |
| 03:30:11.60 | Unknown | Thank you. I know it's on. |
| 03:30:14.36 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:30:14.41 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:30:14.51 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:30:16.39 | Unknown | Another thing. |
| 03:30:26.19 | Unknown | the concept of having this joint planning commission and council meeting, and that's basically the only way the council will be reviewing the housing element draft. That was never, when I was chair, although we discussed having a joint session, but it was never viewed in terms of that would be the end all to be all. And I'm very concerned. that the public not have an opportunity to have the Planning Commission in its entirety go through that process, and then the City Council go through that, so as a future agenda item. |
| 03:31:02.10 | Councilmember Ford | Thank you. Mr. Mayor, and I definitely support that, that we do need to give the residents at least a couple forms for commenting on this before it finally goes to the state. Thank you. |
| 03:31:19.00 | Unknown | Thank you. What is the plan for that? |
| 03:31:22.42 | Mayor Kelly | The plan is to hold two meetings, one meeting with what you just mentioned earlier, one on the 23rd and one on the 30th. |
| 03:31:29.61 | Unknown | Third. |
| 03:31:32.14 | Adam Politzer | Right now that's what I sent out the email earlier today asking the council to tell me their availability for the 23rd and the 30th we have a council meeting on the 24th so it gives us three opportunities in those three dates to hold at least one meeting, if not two, and if the Council desires, three. It's You know, they're there. maybe a little bit of confusion of what action is happening, so I'm going to work with staff tomorrow on putting out some clarification of information of what happens because I think that you can look at the process that we've been working through and I think it's been very successful in terms of public participation. and active involvement at the council meeting you know, compared to the process that was followed many years ago you that resulted that was not successful. So I think let us send out an email to the council as one way of communication to just the process that's coming before you. It should not. preclude the joint meeting of the Council and the Planning Commission. That needs to occur. regardless to when we submit the application to the element onto the state. and the Council can decide if they need to hold Thank you. more hearings. what will happen when it goes to the state is just like when someone puts in an application for a remodel, it gets sent down to CSG, our outside plan checker, they review it and they send it back. with comments that need to be addressed. And that's what will happen when we submit our application we feel with the participation of the public the hiring of an excellent consultant who has a track record of getting to submitting elements to the state that have high level of success. That was picked by a committee comprised of various talented people that sat on the committee to select the consultant and the work that the housing element Committee has done with active public participation and updates to the council that whatever is recommended to be submitted to the state will be thoroughly vetted. Plenty of community opportunity and participation with 40 Housing Element Task Force meetings, site tours, workshops. But it's not the end because there will be 60 days for comment and it will come back through the Planning Commission and back through the Council for final adoption at some point in the future. So this is just yet again another step in it. I think it's a logical step. you that has been laid out in our schedules as early as the November 10th meeting. when we had the excellent PowerPoint presentation and the consultant and Joan Cox representing the housing element to make comments on the schedule and their good work. that stated that the next step would be a joint meeting of the Council and the Planning Commission. So that's what I'm recommending occur. And my recommendation is for Monday the 23rd. But I'll wait to hear from your availability and we'll send out a document tomorrow, maybe flushing out with a little bit more meat. Use John Bartels for it to put some meat on my points. |
| 03:34:53.39 | Charlie Francis (likely Finance Director) | We'll get you. |
| 03:35:14.59 | Adam Politzer | and get that out to the council so that they have a clear understanding of the process. |
| 03:35:20.16 | Councilmember Ford | Sister Mayor. I have a comment. Um... I am very concerned that the Council have time to review this report. i want the time to review it and i want the time of the general residents who have not been following as a small group has the housing element meetings to have the time to review this i think that we need to give at least 30 days before the council's approval of the draft this This is a huge step because this goes to the state. Thirty days is the standard amount of time. approval of the draft. This is a huge step because this goes to the state. 30 days is the standard amount of time that we give for most reviews, including the recent business advisory report. And the housing element is more important than most, as it will change our general plan. I know that there's a small group that attends all the meetings, but there's a large group, a real large group of residents who don't have the time to do that. And I think these residents need to be given the opportunity to read it. I want to get feedback from my constituents. I want to discuss it with them, and I want to be able to have that information before we vote. So I have an issue. I really believe that having a joint Planning Commission and City Council meeting is fine, but there is something to be said for having the independent bodies review it. First the Planning Commission with their insight and then the council gets the benefit of that insight. when we review it. So those are my concerns about the process and the timing. |
| 03:37:24.39 | Unknown | Yes, I ask Councillor Rood. |
| 03:37:25.60 | Councilmember Ford | Bye. |
| 03:37:28.46 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:37:28.49 | Debbie (City Clerk) | Bye. |
| 03:37:28.79 | Unknown | Sorry for... Thank you. That was all right. |
| 03:37:33.97 | Unknown | Uh... Thank you. What was the process you had in your head? |
| 03:37:42.40 | Unknown | Well, I'll tell you that we were in the thick of the trenches with regards to just getting a low impact strategy of ADUs and liveaboards and underdeveloped parcels. In terms of the process. Um, We assumed it would be the normal process where you have the draft go in front of the Planning Commission. There are public hearings and discussions And, oh, by the way, an ADU policy and all the elements that are wrapped around with it, we were discussing that. We had a time, we had a, timeline with process around the ADU policy. We had Lilly did a comparison of ADU policies across other cities. Thank you. |
| 03:38:24.68 | Unknown | I don't know. |
| 03:38:24.97 | Unknown | And I'm just answering your question. And then having all those important elements as a cornerstone of that housing, a draft housing element in front of the planning commission for discussion and feedback and review. And then... a process for a formal review with the City Council and Frankly, we hadn't gotten to the details of it and the nitty-gritty because we were so focused on the research. But definitely the hearing, I mean, that was kind of a given that there would be a 30-day at least review process. I mean, this thing is huge. And I have to say that of the small... the groups that are attending these housing element meetings are quite concerned. They're very... many, many concerns. And they voice these concerns. And they tell me that they don't feel like they're being listened to. So I think we're in for A lot of public vetting, a lot of public hearings, and a lot of public feedback. And I think we need to be open to that. Okay. |
| 03:39:33.82 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. |
| 03:39:33.85 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:39:33.95 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:39:33.97 | Mayor Kelly | We have three minutes. Wow. Timber? |
| 03:39:38.51 | Mayor Kelly | Other than Mayor Kelly Bean as a member of that, I've been to just about all of these meetings. I've watched it. We've watched this task force really evolve to a very, very, positive. We saw a consultant come in who I think was an excellent choice. These people have worked very, very hard. And where will you at these meetings Now you want to, at the end of the game, you now want to say, bring it to the public. |
| 03:40:18.98 | Unknown | you . Mr. Ming. |
| 03:40:20.04 | Mayor Kelly | Mr. Mayor. No, no, not the public forum. I'm talking about the meetings that we have on Monday night when the Housing Task Force is there and how this process moved along, all right? |
| 03:40:20.61 | Dorothy Gibson | No, no, no. |
| 03:40:20.87 | Unknown | The President. |
| 03:40:31.55 | Unknown | Mr. Mayor, I will respond to that, if I may. |
| 03:40:34.03 | Unknown | if I may. Yeah. Thank you. |
| 03:40:36.17 | Unknown | Yes, Council Member Weiner just said, where were you at these meetings? |
| 03:40:39.83 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:40:41.64 | Unknown | Councilmember Weiner, you kicked me off that commission. You kicked me off that. What do you mean? That task force. First, you convinced us to change it from a committee to a task force. |
| 03:40:48.14 | Unknown | that. |
| 03:40:48.53 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:40:54.31 | Unknown | Then you, uh, It revealed that that changed the rules of the game and allowed you to remove the chair and appoint a chair instead of allowing the task force, you know, and then you remove me from the commission, from the task force. Well, let me answer that first. Please name it, Mr. Mayor. I do have the floor. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. |
| 03:41:10.02 | Mayor Kelly | Well, let me answer that, Chris. So what's his name, Mr. Mayor? |
| 03:41:14.01 | Unknown | I do have my Thank you. |
| 03:41:16.71 | Mayor Kelly | you |
| 03:41:16.84 | Unknown | it. |
| 03:41:18.11 | Unknown | Thank you. And so I'm just sharing honestly with the council what I, the concerns I have heard from residents. I think the council should know this. And frankly, I have heard concerns from, I mean, some of the task force members too. And I think it's important that we keep an open mind |
| 03:41:43.08 | Mayor Kelly | Gotcha. |
| 03:41:43.56 | Mayor Kelly | Okay. First of all, first of all, |
| 03:41:44.18 | Unknown | All right. |
| 03:41:44.45 | Mayor Kelly | for |
| 03:41:44.89 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:41:44.91 | Mayor Kelly | THE FAMILY. |
| 03:41:44.97 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:41:44.99 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:41:46.41 | Unknown | Bye. |
| 03:41:46.58 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:41:46.69 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:41:48.57 | Mayor Kelly | All these years that we've had committees, we never put chair people from the council on it. And that was the first move that was done. It was done with Jonathan Leon on the BAC committee when I became mayor, and it was done with you on the housing committee. I did not remove you from that committee first. I removed you as the chairperson. And when you still maintain being very, blockage, I guess, obstructionist. That's when I decided that it was best for that task force because it was not moving ahead to remove you from that. And that's the reasons why. And if you really look at what has happened now, they've gotten down, they've dug in, they've done their work, we brought in a consultant, and we're very, very close to submitting something to the state that's going to be accepted. That's more than I can say that was going on a year and a half ago. |
| 03:42:49.23 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:42:49.25 | Mayor Kelly | Mr. Mayor. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait just a minute. Let me get my bearings here. Okay. Okay. I would submit, I would submit to... Actually, we're going way over our tennis shoes here because this is, we're talking about the future agenda and now we're debating the housing element, so... Okay. |
| 03:42:49.27 | Unknown | Mr. Mayor. |
| 03:42:53.15 | Councilmember Ford | Okay. It's your turn. Mayor, I would submit, I would submit to. |
| 03:42:58.33 | Unknown | Bye. |
| 03:42:58.57 | Councilmember Ford | Thank you. |
| 03:43:06.87 | Councilmember Ford | Okay, just one quick note to respond to Herb Weiners. I just want to say that the reason that the housing committee is moving forward and that we hired a new consultant in my mind is because some of the residents got involved. Okay. And Mr. Mayor, I was personally attacked. |
| 03:43:10.90 | Mayor Kelly | to Herb Weiner's Yeah. |
| 03:43:25.08 | Unknown | And Mr. Mayor, I was personally attacked. I was personally attacked, Mr. Mayor. And you allowed him to personally attack me. |
| 03:43:28.03 | Mayor Kelly | I was personally attacked, Mr. Mayor. No, I did not allow him to do anything, but you can speak your mind when you have your minute, okay? And you can say what you want to say. Hopefully you keep it civil because that's the best way to do it, but he had an opinion. So anyway, we're going to move on because we're talking about something we can't talk about. |
| 03:43:48.16 | Unknown | I, You allowed Council Member Ford to say something, and I would like to respond. |
| 03:43:50.88 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 03:43:55.62 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:43:55.64 | Unknown | Can I, Mr. Mayor, if you're going to observe Robert's, whatever, Rosenberg's rules of order, you have to observe them all the time, not just when it serves our own individual goals. I agree. |
| 03:43:57.39 | Unknown | You know? |
| 03:43:58.18 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 03:43:58.30 | Unknown | Robert. |
| 03:43:58.83 | Unknown | I'm sorry. |
| 03:44:06.11 | Mayor Kelly | I agree. This is an item that is not on our agenda. It's not only Rosenberg. Brown Act. Brown Act. Yes, it is. So we've got to pay attention. Stop. So the issue before us is do we have a meeting on the 23rd? And I argue, will argue that the meeting on the 23rd with a joint thing is an educational meeting between the Planning Commission and the Council to put the drafted report in front. And I think it's really beneficial to do that. And we can vote and change our course as we go forward. There's nothing stopping us from changing the course or shorting the course or lengthening the course and so on. It's just a matter of getting the process done. And the process is ready to go. The report is drafted. I was there Monday night until 8 o'clock, and others were there later, and they're doing the final draft. It's ready to look at. And so whether we look at it for 30 days or 50 days, we can decide later, but let's get the first look at it as soon as possible. Thank you. |
| 03:44:11.18 | Councilmember Ford | Bye. |
| 03:44:11.33 | Unknown | Brown eggs. |
| 03:44:12.27 | Councilmember Ford | Yes, it is. So we've got to pay attention. So, |
| 03:44:18.11 | Unknown | you |
| 03:45:08.01 | Unknown | Mr. Mayor, could you turn on your microphone? |
| 03:45:10.44 | Mayor Kelly | Sorry. Thank you. It probably got picked up over here. But anyway, so let's have the meeting on the 23rd. joint meeting, educational, the consultants will run the meeting. The meeting will not be run by me or by the planning commission. It will be run by the consultants and staff. And we will all get an education. We will walk out of there with, we'll already have it beforehand. It's like a workshop. It's like a workshop for us. Yeah. Okay. And then we'll get to the next. |
| 03:45:31.79 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:45:31.84 | Unknown | I have a forehand, a word to show. Thank you. |
| 03:45:36.26 | Mary Wagner | I thought it was action to accept it. Potentially. I mean, I think that that's going to be an option. But that's an option we have. No, I can't agree with that. I apologize, but you're talking about a future agenda item right now. So if you want to put something on your agenda, we need to get that direction from you. If you want us to agendize your housing element discussion at another time, we can do that. Right. I think that the city manager indicated that you would be receiving a proposed |
| 03:45:41.90 | Mayor Kelly | But that's an option we have. |
| 03:45:43.10 | Unknown | No, I can't agree with that. |
| 03:45:45.37 | Unknown | . |
| 03:45:47.69 | Unknown | Right. |
| 03:45:48.02 | Councilmember Ford | you know. |
| 03:45:48.23 | Unknown | Okay. |
| 03:45:48.55 | Councilmember Ford | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 03:45:56.31 | Councilmember Ford | Right. |
| 03:45:56.65 | Unknown | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 03:46:01.15 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. response on the process issue and you've been polled to find out your availability for certain special meetings. So the appropriate discussion point |
| 03:46:01.69 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:46:01.71 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:46:03.70 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:46:03.72 | Unknown | issue. |
| 03:46:07.94 | Unknown | Correct. |
| 03:46:10.40 | Mary Wagner | at those meetings would be if you're going to take action or you think you need further input or you want to somehow If you want to tell us to put the process on an agenda, this would be the appropriate time to do that. |
| 03:46:22.45 | Mayor Kelly | Well, the 23rd is on the table. Can everybody make it on the 23rd? Yes. |
| 03:46:29.74 | Councilmember Ford | I have a comment. I want to see this. This is a point in time to talk about the process that we will take at that meeting. Did I hear you say that? |
| 03:46:44.07 | Mary Wagner | You're talking about future agenda items right now. You're not talking about the housing element process right now. You're asking if we want to see what that on the agenda. |
| 03:46:49.60 | Councilmember Ford | Right. I understand that. Okay, then I misunderstood what you said. So, okay. I'm not ready to vote on that. |
| 03:46:57.04 | Mayor Kelly | I'm not ready to vote on that. it's an up and down issue there's no voting it's just are you available with 23. i don't |
| 03:47:01.78 | Councilmember Ford | I don't know. I have to take a look. |
| 03:47:03.57 | Mayor Kelly | Okay. All right, let's move to councilman committee reports. Anybody got one? Hearing none. . |
| 03:47:13.02 | Unknown | Just one. |
| 03:47:13.63 | Mayor Kelly | Just one. |
| 03:47:13.72 | Unknown | Just quickly, I think Adam's already aware of this, the The Brent Energy Authority asked, given that all the cities in Brent are now part of the Brent Energy Authority, if Saucelito wanted to reconsider who it contracts its energy with. So that's just something that could be a future agenda. |
| 03:47:30.25 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:47:36.14 | Mayor Kelly | Okay. Debbie, will we put that on the future agenda items as we go through them? . Thank you. Um, |
| 03:47:46.00 | Unknown | They don't need your power, because they'll take it. |
| 03:47:51.87 | Mayor Kelly | Okay. Appointments for Board and Commission's lands, I'll come back with recommendations for that next week using the MADI report and other things, and we'll address the issues next meeting, if that's okay with everybody. All right. All right. And then any other reports of significance? |
| 03:48:08.51 | Unknown | Yeah, I just want to say something quickly. So, and Debbie, if you can note this in the minutes that it relates back to an earlier topic. If I insinuated to... Jonathan Goldman that he didn't conduct his job correctly. That is not what I, if that came across in the heat of the moment, that is not what I would like to convey. Or if Ms. Pfeiffer had, is correct in her memory of prior meetings. And I'm not, I don't know if that's true, but I'll give the benefit of the doubt and I'll eat my words. Just wanted to clarify those two things. |
| 03:48:52.21 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. All right. |
| 03:48:53.93 | Unknown | And that I like Bill Warner and I don't have a problem with his credibility. It's not, that's not the issue. Mr. Mayor. |
| 03:49:00.58 | Councilmember Ford | Mr. Mayor, I move to adjourn. All in favor? Aye. Great. Okay. |
| 03:49:04.09 | Unknown | All in favor? Aye. Great. Okay. We made it. |
| 03:49:07.89 | Mayor Kelly | you |
| 03:49:07.98 | Councilmember Ford | We made it. Oh, great. |
| 03:49:10.96 | Mayor Kelly | Thank you. you |
Vicki Nichols — Neutral: Asked if the lease renewal would involve Planning Commission review to ensure cumulative impact assessment and equipment testing. Expressed concern about public comment opportunities if new equipment is installed. ▶ 📄