| Time | Speaker | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:04.37 | Debbie | Councilmember Ford. here. you Council member Weiner. |
| 00:00:08.97 | Charles Melton | Thank you. |
| 00:00:09.04 | Debbie | Thank you. |
| 00:00:09.28 | Charles Melton | Thank you. |
| 00:00:09.60 | Debbie | Mayor Kelly. |
| 00:00:10.71 | Charles Melton | Thank you. |
| 00:00:10.73 | Unknown | here. |
| 00:00:11.24 | Debbie | and Vice Mayor Leone and Council Member Pfeiffer R. Not the President. |
| 00:00:18.22 | Unknown | All right. The council is about to go into closed session. Is there any public comment on any items that are on the closed session agenda? Chuck. |
| 00:00:36.90 | Charles Melton | Chuck down. Spencer Avenue. My comments are sort of a continuation of when this item came up this item by that I I mean, the renewal of the lease up at Firehouse 2. When it came up about a month ago or whenever it was, and it didn't really get settled for whatever reasons, but I would like to comment on it again in case it's not going to come up. My question would be, which I don't expect you to answer, Will there be a list presented by the city attorney, will that be made available to the public before The council acts on it. Yeah. WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO BE ABLE TO |
| 00:01:15.51 | Mary Wagner | We anticipate returning to the Council on your first meeting in February in open session as a consent calendar item. Okay. But before the council takes action. |
| 00:01:25.06 | Unknown | Right. Can we always take action in open session on those items? |
| 00:01:29.01 | Mary Wagner | The process we follow is that you do take action in open session unless there's some mitigating circumstance. That means you need to do it for time or whatever else enclosed. And then we announce that closed session to action that was taken if it's final. |
| 00:01:42.41 | Unknown | So yes, we anticipate having that on the first agenda in February. Okay. |
| 00:01:47.39 | Charles Melton | That's great. I could probably stop right there, but I would like to say in passing that the city of San Francisco is presently in the process Linda, you dropped something. The city of San Francisco is presently in the process of considering the same thing, a renewal of leases. And they are contemplating, the city and the county, of having legislation that requires more strict monitoring of the radiation, the cumulative radiation of not just the antenna, but the other surrounding antennas that are there but combined with PG&E smart meters, cell phones everything and so that leads to the next point that if the term of the sleeves is anything exceptionally durational is that a word that it might run a follow later developments in the technology of measuring that radiation so I think it would be a good idea either include to some kind of a Clause, if that's the word. in the least, that lets us revisit that or at least not have anything that gives the Verizon a right to say, well, you signed it 20 years ago, it's still good and we don't have to go by that. I guess that's about it. |
| 00:03:03.83 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:03:06.18 | Charles Melton | about all I have to say, as long as it's going to come up later. in February. |
| 00:03:10.28 | Unknown | Thank you. It's a good point. Maybe Mary, you could look into what San Francisco is doing and see if there's anything we could add to the lease. That would satisfy that. All right. Anybody else care to comment on the closed session items? All right, thank you. We'll adjourn into the... What did you do, Becker? |
| 00:03:28.76 | Mary Wagner | Mr. Mayor, just for the purpose of the record, it's items D1 through 4 on your closed session agenda. |
| 00:03:31.68 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 00:03:31.69 | Unknown | or on your closed session. |
| 00:03:32.81 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 00:03:33.09 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:03:33.65 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 00:03:33.67 | Joe Lemon | Thank you. Thank you. you |
| 00:03:34.06 | Doug Lloyd | you |
| 00:03:52.18 | Unknown | All right. |
| 00:03:52.64 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:03:54.10 | Unknown | Mr. Charlie? I said, no, no, no. |
| 00:03:54.32 | Unknown | Really? |
| 00:03:57.78 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:03:57.85 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:03:57.92 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:03:57.95 | Unknown | See you later. |
| 00:03:58.09 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:04:00.28 | Unknown | All right. Would you like to call the meeting to order, please? And Debbie, would you call the roll? |
| 00:04:11.40 | Debbie | Councilmember Pfeiffer. Here. Vice Mayor Leon is absent at this time. Councilmember Ford. Here. Councilmember Weiner. |
| 00:04:12.92 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:04:20.63 | Unknown | President. |
| 00:04:21.09 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:04:21.32 | Debbie | And Mayor Kelly. Here. |
| 00:04:22.59 | Unknown | Here. you All right, the council met in closed session earlier and considered four items and were given direction by our legal counsel. No action was taken on any item. Oh, Pledge of Allegiance. Well, now that the legal stuff's over, we can pledge allegiance. All right, let's see. |
| 00:04:42.45 | Doug Lloyd | . |
| 00:04:45.76 | Unknown | Doug Lloyd, would you lead us? Oh, please, Doug. Oh, yeah. My pleasure. |
| 00:04:48.86 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 00:04:52.59 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 00:04:52.64 | Unknown | you |
| 00:04:52.96 | Matt Bouchard | Super fun. |
| 00:04:53.79 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 00:04:53.82 | Matt Bouchard | All right. |
| 00:04:54.20 | Doug Lloyd | Yes. I can't say it. |
| 00:04:55.97 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. Yes. which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. |
| 00:05:04.30 | Unknown | liberty and justice are on. |
| 00:05:06.16 | Unknown | Bye. Thank you. |
| 00:05:06.85 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:05:07.11 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:05:07.17 | Unknown | you |
| 00:05:07.24 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:05:07.34 | Unknown | . |
| 00:05:07.61 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:05:07.71 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:05:07.97 | Unknown | . |
| 00:05:09.03 | Unknown | I'm sorry. I'm going to go. |
| 00:05:11.38 | Unknown | All right. I'll see you at the ferry terminal. So back to the close... |
| 00:05:13.67 | Unknown | So back to the close. |
| 00:05:16.91 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:05:16.94 | Unknown | Thank you. Back to the closed session, does anyone from the public have any comments on the closed session items. All right, seeing none, we'll move on to approval of the agenda. Before we do, I'd like to – oh, let's say Jonathan Leon is here. |
| 00:05:32.87 | Unknown | Okay, or just for the record? Before the record. |
| 00:05:34.87 | Unknown | I'll give you a second. |
| 00:05:35.98 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:05:36.77 | Unknown | All right. I'd like to remove item 5E since we agreed last night to review that on the 30th, so it doesn't need to be a part. MR PALLADINO. Any objection to that? |
| 00:05:57.43 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:05:57.85 | Unknown | With that in mind, do I have a motion? |
| 00:05:57.87 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:05:57.93 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 00:05:57.95 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:05:57.98 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 00:05:58.02 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:05:58.05 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 00:05:58.07 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:05:58.08 | Doug Lloyd | you |
| 00:06:00.45 | Unknown | Yes, sir. Go ahead. |
| 00:06:00.68 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:06:00.70 | Unknown | I'm sorry. |
| 00:06:00.77 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:06:00.79 | Unknown | Thank you. I move we accept the agenda. |
| 00:06:04.95 | Unknown | second |
| 00:06:06.67 | Unknown | All favor? Aye. Aye. All right. And now we come to a fun part, a special presentation. We have a presentation tonight by Doug Lloyd and Susan Morris of the Willow Creek Foundation. It doesn't look like Doug Lloyd, but... I don't know. on the results of the special event, Sasha-licious. All right. |
| 00:06:27.75 | Jeff Dibbell | Well, you stole my thunder. Ladies and gentlemen of the council, I'm Jeff Dibbell, Recreation Supervisor, and I'm here to present Doug Lloyd, who is speaking on behalf of the Little Creek Foundation. He is their president. |
| 00:06:29.40 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 00:06:29.45 | Unknown | All right. |
| 00:06:30.03 | Doug Lloyd | Bye. |
| 00:06:30.65 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:06:34.01 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:06:38.33 | Doug Lloyd | It's great. It's terrific. |
| 00:06:40.51 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 00:06:41.93 | Doug Lloyd | So you all know who I am, Doug Lloyd, President of the Boiler Creek Foundation. And thank you, Mr. Mayor and council members for making time on your busy agenda for us to make a little presentation this evening. Really appreciate it. Appreciate being on at 7 o'clock too. |
| 00:06:56.17 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. Uh-huh. |
| 00:06:58.16 | Doug Lloyd | For those of you in the audience who don't know much about Willow Creek Academy, World Creek Academy is Sausageo's K-8 public charter school. It was founded some 10 years ago. It's grown from 37 students that first year to 250 students today and still growing. In 2010, we were designated a California Distinguished School by the California Department of Education. In 2011, we were recognized by USC as the sixth best charter school in the state of California, which is a pretty good achievement. We have an API test score of 882, which is way above average for Marin County and is still climbing. Um, what we've achieved in these 10 years in addition to educating young Folks like Robert here and Ricky is we've stemmed the flow of young families leaving Sorcerito. In fact, Families are now moving into Sorcerete because of Willow Creek Academy. We've got several examples of people who've done that. in the last couple of years. and home values are on the rise in our community relative to other Marin County communities just because of Willow Creek Academy. So I say, oh, we used to be renowned Terrible school. It isn't that way anymore. If you haven't seen Willow Creek Academy yet, if you haven't seen the campus yet, Please come to our, Community Open House, which will be held again this springtime. Sherry Faber organizes those events and you can see the kids in the classrooms and talk to the teachers and it's a fun event. Um, In my opinion, a good public school is an essential part of any vibrant community. And there needs to be maximum collaboration between the school and the local city. And I'm pleased to say that some of that is really beginning to take place now. So to celebrate our 10th anniversary, Susan Morris and I approached Mike Lamford with the idea of co-sponsoring Saucealicious. The name Saucealicious was Susan's inspiration. I think it's a great name. I want to express my Cynthia thanks to Mike and to Jeff Darbell who was a great We're open to the concept. and they both worked alongside us, our big team of volunteers that we had brought to the event to bring off a great event at the ICB building on October 15th. A number of city council members were there. City manager had his wallet out that night. That's not an option. Fabulous. |
| 00:09:49.90 | Doug Lloyd | That sounded awesome. |
| 00:09:51.68 | Matt Bouchard | Okay. |
| 00:09:51.90 | Doug Lloyd | Yeah. |
| 00:09:52.29 | Matt Bouchard | Thank you. |
| 00:09:54.88 | Doug Lloyd | And some eight local restaurants provided appetizers for the event. And the attendees got to vote for their favorite appetizers. And we'll come to that in a moment. The artists, the parents, the teachers, and the local residents all had a great time. They loved the event, and everybody seemed to agree that we should make this an annual event, and we certainly hope that the city will continue co-sponsoring with us. I also want to express my thanks from the Foundation to all those who worked so hard on the event. Especially Susan Morris, who was the chair for the whole event. And to Sherry Faber, who put on a wonderful silent auction for us. It takes an awful lot of work to put a silent auction together. And Sherry did a fabulous job. Um... The arrangement we struck with Mike Langford was that Parks and Rec for co-sponsoring and providing us some of the equipment and help from Jeff. Um, was that the city would get would share in 20% of the bottom line. And, um, Mike was nice enough to say that would go towards the renovation of Robin Sweeney-Pott. So it's helping the kids yet again. So I wish it were more. Um, But next year it will be more. And I have much pleasure in presenting a check from Willow Creek Foundation for $1,625 and change. |
| 00:11:29.17 | Doug Lloyd | THE END OF you |
| 00:11:42.76 | Unknown | Thank you, Doug. Thank you. And to the sixth best charter school. That's tremendous. Thank you. Unbelievably good. Thank you. |
| 00:11:49.46 | Doug Lloyd | Bye. So now it's time to present the awards to the three winning restaurants. I believe Mr. Mayor has those plaques. I do, I do. Thank you. |
| 00:12:07.97 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:12:37.08 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 00:12:37.09 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:12:37.84 | Doug Lloyd | you |
| 00:12:38.04 | Unknown | Hey, Johnson, I'm going to move on today. |
| 00:12:42.87 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:13:21.56 | Doug Lloyd | Wait a minute, can I get the children up here? I'm a kid too. |
| 00:13:24.70 | Alice Merrill | Just think this is how we're actually. . Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:13:45.24 | Unknown | All right, thank you all. |
| 00:13:52.27 | Unknown | All right. So now it's time for public communications. And this is a time for the Council to hear from citizens regarding matters that are not on the agenda. Do we have any citizens who would like to address the council? on any matter. that's not on the agenda. Yeah. |
| 00:14:21.57 | Matt Bouchard | I'll talk fast because I only have three minutes. |
| 00:14:23.81 | Unknown | say in it. |
| 00:14:24.42 | Matt Bouchard | Matt Bouchard, Southern Marine Fire Department, a fireman for your fire department for 15 years, Been in the business for 21. I'm not in a good mood standing up here tonight, ladies and gentlemen. I'm actually heavy hearted. I've been listening to what's been going on in the streets of Sausalito, and I believe it's despicable. The relationships that our firefighters have established and been creating over the last at least 15 years that I've been around are being tarnished, our reputation is being tarnished, and our reputations are being challenged. And I'm standing here to stand up for the men and women that I work with every single day. I'm going to bring some information to light that the newspapers, And the editorials are not talking about. And this is stuff that I know intimately because I was one of the four people that brought this merger concept to this council almost 10 years ago. And I can assure you. It has nothing to do with what I'm hearing on the street. has nothing to do with ulterior motives of salary spiking, Amen. having pensions, and double dipping. This was found on one thing. Public safety. I stand behind that and if I look a little bit intense in my face, it's because it's a very serious thing. It's your public safety. And it's my safety. Before this merger came together, here are some numbers for you guys. I did my own research. I encourage anybody to scrutinize these numbers, and if I'm found mistaken, I'll apologize immediately. Ten years prior to the merging of these two fire departments, the informal merging, Sausalito was an 18-member fire department. In the 10 years preceding this merger, 15 members. of that 18 member fire department came and left. I'm not talking about retirements or workers comp. I'm talking about 15 people used Thank you. The single stand-alone fire department saw Salido as a stepping stone into another fire department. There was something wrong with that, because this is a fantastic place to work. And we had a competitive salary, And everything was fine. We were thinking, why? Why are these people not staying here? Why are they not staying in this fire department? And the reason was, is because it was unsafe and we were not delivering a product that we could stand behind. So we made an effort to change it. And so I'm appalled. to hear 10 years later, after all of the work that's been done to get as far as we are to hear some of the rhetoric on the street. and to hear that our reputation is being challenged. And, And these petitions, And these signature gatherers are using this community's love for their fire department and spinning it and actually getting people that support their firefighters to sign a petition that they think we endorse. It's despicable. And I'm not saying it for you guys, because you're not going to change your minds on what I'm saying. I'm saying it for that camera and everybody that's listening at home. This is the rest of the story, as Paul Harvey would say. And there's a lot more to it. than what's out on the street. So for everybody at home, please educate yourself on the issues. There's going to be a couple of town hall meetings. The information is all over the place. Do not sign anything. until Become educated. Thank you. |
| 00:17:30.03 | Unknown | Bye. |
| 00:17:30.72 | Matt Bouchard | Thank you. |
| 00:17:30.74 | Unknown | Good night. Does anyone else care to address the council on any matter that is not on the agenda? All right, seeing none, we'll move on. To action minutes of the previous meeting, I have a couple of changes. Does anybody else have changes first? . |
| 00:17:50.02 | Debbie | I also wanted to make note that there's a typo on the agenda. These are actually the, you're approving the minutes of January 10, 2012, not December 6th as the agenda reads. |
| 00:18:00.65 | Unknown | Right. |
| 00:18:00.67 | Debbie | THE FAMILY. |
| 00:18:05.79 | Unknown | Well, I'll do from, line 23 on the first page should be Mayor Kelly. That's it. Purple wasn't here. |
| 00:18:13.04 | Adam Politzer | wasn't here. Hey, I'm out. Thank you. |
| 00:18:17.01 | Unknown | And I think that's the only one I had. Does anybody else have any changes? |
| 00:18:28.65 | Unknown | Hearing none, the motion? |
| 00:18:33.97 | Unknown | Motion to approve the minutes of January 10th. |
| 00:18:39.65 | Unknown | All in favor? |
| 00:18:40.41 | Unknown | I'm sorry. |
| 00:18:40.90 | Doug Lloyd | Bye. Thank you. |
| 00:18:43.27 | Unknown | Opposed? Seeing none. And now we're to the consent calendar. Items on the consent calendar are generally considered routine and not controversial, and not requiring discussion. Are there any members of the public that would like to remove any item from the consent calendar? Seeing none, any council members? |
| 00:19:10.96 | Unknown | Mr. Mayor? Yes. |
| 00:19:11.70 | Unknown | Yes. |
| 00:19:12.39 | Unknown | I just would like to make a comment on items A and B, the Finance Committee and Omit Committee Minutes. If I may. |
| 00:19:22.60 | Unknown | If it's restricted to the content of the minutes, that's good. Sure. Yeah. |
| 00:19:26.53 | Unknown | Sure. My request of staff is to please spell out the acronyms. There are so many acronyms in both of these reports that certainly a lay person reading it would question what was being said. And the second thing is to give us a little more understanding, a little more meat in terms of what actually happened, not just the subject. So that would be my request of staff. |
| 00:19:52.94 | Matt Bouchard | Thank you. |
| 00:19:52.96 | Unknown | in terms |
| 00:19:53.40 | Matt Bouchard | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:19:53.65 | Cheryl Popp | Thank you. |
| 00:20:00.47 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:20:00.55 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:20:00.59 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:20:01.14 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:20:02.63 | Unknown | Do we have a motion to approve? Thank you. |
| 00:20:05.14 | Unknown | So much. |
| 00:20:05.16 | Unknown | So, Over. |
| 00:20:06.07 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:20:06.09 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 00:20:06.37 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:20:07.05 | Unknown | All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Seeing none. Move on to public hearings. There are none. So on to business items. And the first business item is to receive and file information on the Accessory Dwelling Unit regulations in the Amnesty Program, which was continued from the January 10th meeting. Lily. |
| 00:20:28.30 | Unknown | Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Councilmembers. This is a brief update on the drafting of the ADU regulations. In the November 15th Housing Element Status Report to the City Council, staff noted that we'd be initiating the development of the Accessory Dwelling Unit, or ADU, regulations and the amnesty regulations. Since the ADUs are a significant component of the housing element in meeting the state-mandated arena, the city's housing element consultant has recommended that we begin working on those regulations immediately. Staff would begin work on the ADU regulations immediately after the draft housing element is sent to the state for review. In order to facilitate the development of the regulations, staff would be recommending the utilization of the housing element task force in the preparation of the regulations. We anticipate that there would be about two meetings per month beginning in March. and they would be expected to continue through June of this year, at which time the regulations would be forwarded to the Planning Commission for consideration, and then to the City Council for consideration, |
| 00:21:39.76 | Matt Bouchard | And then, |
| 00:21:43.67 | Unknown | adoption and that would coincide with the schedule that staff is recommending for the adoption of the housing element as well And that concludes our update. We're available for questions. Thank you. |
| 00:21:56.43 | Unknown | Mr. Mayor? Thank you. Lily, I'm just... I would feel more comfortable if we were submitting our housing, you know, the final product to Sacramento with at least a little bit more to an ADU policy. In other words, to have something to do with the that we would submit and that I would feel comfortable reviewing and understanding the whole package that I was voting for or against, you know, with respect to the ADU policy since it is an important part of our housing element. And so I was just curious in looking at other towns have... Is it standard for other towns to submit you know, if they have an ADU policy, I mean, If ADUs are counted in their arena, to include the ADU policy as part of that so that the HCD can look at it in its entirety. Bye. I have a follow-up question after you, yeah. |
| 00:23:05.40 | Unknown | I have a follow-up question now. |
| 00:23:06.94 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 00:23:07.04 | Unknown | Thank you. In my review of other housing elements in Marin County, I've seen that the program is just like we saw last night, just the implementing program where the city would begin work on the regulations and there wouldn't be hardly any meat to that. The work would begin after the element was adopted. |
| 00:23:27.83 | Unknown | Isn't it the case, though, that the other cities in Marin County already have ADU policies in place? |
| 00:23:36.37 | Unknown | I believe that some of them do, but others I don't think. Well, I think I've reviewed housing elements from prior rounds. and sought implementing programs that would either to be strengthening their ADU policies or creating new ones. |
| 00:23:49.09 | Matt Bouchard | Thank you. |
| 00:23:49.12 | Unknown | and saw it in a moment. |
| 00:23:50.73 | Matt Bouchard | Thank you. |
| 00:23:56.77 | Unknown | Has HCD said that they would accept a housing element without having clarity on our ADU policy? |
| 00:24:09.71 | Unknown | They haven't given an opinion either way. I don't think we've asked them that question. |
| 00:24:13.85 | Unknown | I would be interested in asking HCD that question since we are kind of a unique case. the ADU policy we have makes them illegal. So the fact that we're going to be drafting a new ADU policy |
| 00:24:29.34 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:24:29.37 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:24:29.40 | Unknown | Thank you. We're having questions. |
| 00:24:30.21 | Unknown | We're going to be right. Yeah, I'm sorry. So that question had not been answered. I don't know. Thank you. asked yet of HCD. |
| 00:24:39.95 | Unknown | We haven't asked that. |
| 00:24:40.71 | Unknown | Okay, thank you, Lily. |
| 00:24:40.74 | Unknown | I'm not. |
| 00:24:42.16 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:24:42.18 | Unknown | Thank you. Any other questions? Okay, seeing none, this is an information-only item, so no action is required. Public comment, of course. Anybody from the public here to comment on this report? Okay, seeing none, this is a no action item, so- |
| 00:25:01.91 | Unknown | I move, Mr. Mayor, I'd like to make a motion. |
| 00:25:05.21 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:25:05.28 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:25:05.32 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:25:06.31 | Unknown | I move to direct staff to ask HCD if acceptance of the housing element is dependent on Sausalito having its first ever legal ADU policy. Second. |
| 00:25:28.43 | Unknown | Discussion? |
| 00:25:33.70 | Unknown | I don't know if I can give you an answer to a question like that because they won't have seen the whole housing element so they can't speak to one particular element of it. We've been told by the way. |
| 00:25:40.84 | Unknown | We've been told by the consultants basically that the 30 some odd methods we have in there will all be vetted during the process after HCD has said, okay, you've got an element, now put it together. And so that question is irrelevant at this point. And to submit, we've got a lot of process to go through here, Susie, because we do have a negative ordinance. We've got to go through that ordinance and write a new one. It's an impediment to, it would be an impediment to advancing the housing element draft to delve into that particular aspect at this time. |
| 00:26:21.67 | Unknown | Mr. Moon? Go ahead. Mr. Mayor, when I was on the housing element last year, we embarked in that direction. We were looking at and comparison ADU policies. We know that HCD has indeed, you know, asked us to start moving forward on the ADU policy, and it seems a simple question to ask, you know, HCD whether or not, you know, just how far along we need to be on an ADU policy before they will accept it? I think it's a simple question. |
| 00:26:54.53 | Unknown | Mr. Mayor, that's what I was going to say. It's a phone call. And so why not just get the answer and then move along? |
| 00:27:07.76 | Unknown | My question is, what are the consultants for? I mean, let them do their job. Let them do their job. |
| 00:27:17.66 | Unknown | The consultant can call, Mr. Mayor. |
| 00:27:20.37 | Unknown | Mr. Mayor. |
| 00:27:21.78 | Unknown | Can't wait for |
| 00:27:22.54 | Unknown | Wait, wait, wait. |
| 00:27:22.59 | Unknown | THE FAMILY. Wait. |
| 00:27:23.64 | Unknown | Wait. |
| 00:27:23.98 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:27:24.03 | Unknown | It's got to be recognized. |
| 00:27:24.26 | Unknown | And I'm going to go to the next one. Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:27:25.43 | Unknown | Yes, indeed. If you're going to ask for these rules, you have to apply. |
| 00:27:25.65 | Unknown | Yes, indeed. |
| 00:27:28.03 | Unknown | All right. Do you have any more to say on your minute, three minutes? No. Okay. Do you want to say something? |
| 00:27:34.79 | Unknown | No. |
| 00:27:39.06 | Unknown | Yes, Mr. Mayor, to a council member's point about letting the consultants do their job. I can only say that the consultants have actually contacted various members of our community seeking information to help them do their job. And I don't think suggesting directing staff to ask this very simple, fundamental question of HCD is, I think that's assisting these consultants. |
| 00:28:06.52 | Unknown | All right, I'll use my three minutes to say Thank you. The consultant that we have, Karen, and I'm missing her last name at the moment. M Group and Karen Warner has certified 100 plans in the state of California. She has given us a path that the task force feels comfortable with, and that's the path that we have elected to follow. So I'll call the question, and Debbie, would you call the roll? |
| 00:28:19.19 | Matt Bouchard | Karen. |
| 00:28:28.69 | Unknown | Um, |
| 00:28:41.53 | Debbie | Council Member Pfeiffer. |
| 00:28:42.77 | Unknown | Yes. |
| 00:28:44.66 | Debbie | as a member for. |
| 00:28:47.37 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:28:47.39 | Unknown | Yes. |
| 00:28:48.45 | Debbie | Councilmember Weiner. Vice Mayor Leon. Mayor Kelly. |
| 00:28:55.51 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:28:55.59 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:28:55.62 | Unknown | Thank you. Okay, so let's move on to action item. Thank you. |
| 00:29:02.07 | Unknown | Number two. |
| 00:29:02.69 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:29:09.09 | Unknown | B, letter B. Letter of intent, Cass Gidley. And Mary, you're going to make the presentation. |
| 00:29:16.63 | Unknown | Okay. Thank you. |
| 00:29:23.28 | Mary Wagner | Thank you, Mr. Mayor, members of the City Council. With the help of Charlie Francis, I got to put the picture of the marina as the backdrop to this PowerPoint, so I wish I could take credit for figuring that out on my own, but Charlie had to show me how to do it. So the item that you have in front of you right now is Cass Marina and the proposed letter of intent with Cass Gidley Marina. A little bit of history quickly. Cass Marina was occupied by Cass Rensh Marina since about 1962. In 1999, the city entered into a lease with Castrental Marina to clarify their existing uses and have a lease agreement in place. In 2009, the property was vacated and in a state of disrepair and has been in that same state of disrepair since that time. The City at your direction solicited and received a number of proposals for the use of the property. And then in November of 2011, you received a presentation from Heather Richard, who's here tonight, on behalf of Cass Gidley Marina for the use of the property, and a copy of that proposal is in your packet this evening. At that City Council meeting, you directed the OMIC committee to work with Heather and Cass Gidlin-Marina to develop a lease proposal that is being brought back to you this evening, as we promised. This is just a little schematic that indicates the leased area that was included in the 1999 lease. Obviously down by Dunphy Park, I think everyone's relatively familiar with the property, but when we were talking about this letter of intent, It's going to include the description of the property that was included in that lease. So with that, I'll go ahead and turn to the letter of intent What this is, it's a letter agreement between the city and Cascade the Marina, which is an established corporation now. the letter would create a one-year period for lease negotiations. It is non-binding, which means that neither party is obligated to enter into a lease at the end of that one-year period. But the city is saying that we won't negotiate with anybody else during this time frame. We'll only enter into negotiations with Cass Gidley Marina. What this does for Cass Gibley is gives them time to go out and seek funding. They need time to look for grant proposals and other things to submit to try and get the money to make the much needed improvements to this piece of property. And they asked that it be this one year period of time. |
| 00:31:53.52 | Matt Bouchard | and they asked. |
| 00:31:59.04 | Mary Wagner | The letter of intent does include some of the basic lease terms that will be negotiated during this time frame and then will be developed and brought back as a lease for the council's consideration in the future. Obviously the term of the lease, how long it's going to be, the rent and or other fees that are paid to the city. Keeping in mind that the city is entering into this based in part on the, or in large part, on the significant public and recreational benefits to the community and not just with the intent of Money. It'll include a schedule of performance with respect to the development of the project, which is the improvement of the marina. use restrictions consistent with the proposal that was submitted and that you have in your packet tonight. and then operation and maintenance obligations moving forward. would also indicate that Cascade Leave would be responsible for the costs associated with obtaining any land use or building entitlements. We don't know what those would be at this point, but during this time frame, we would try and figure that out when we have a better idea of what the actual improvements would be. and the programs that would be put forth and that, I use the word fast track, but that we're gonna try and help expedite the permitting process for Cass-Gitley for this project. |
| 00:33:15.38 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 00:33:16.41 | Mary Wagner | And the letter anticipates that a lease agreement will be brought back to the Council for consideration on or before March of 2013. And with that, staff is recommending that the City Council authorize the City Manager to execute the letter of intent with Cass Gidley Marina. Staff is available for questions, as is Ms. Richard. |
| 00:33:36.68 | Unknown | Thank you. Any questions? |
| 00:33:41.10 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:33:42.13 | Unknown | Mary, during the exclusive negotiating agreement, can the city, if there was a temporary use and there was some agreement that had to be struck with whatever that temporary use was until the project is underway, let's say, I have no idea what that could be, but in that event, Would it be prohibited under this... |
| 00:34:00.86 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. No. |
| 00:34:03.64 | Unknown | because you would be negotiating with someone for a temporary use during |
| 00:34:07.73 | Mary Wagner | Well, I think if somebody came forward and wanted to do something there on a temporary basis, we would first make sure they understood the city's arrangement with Catskilly Marina, work with Catskilly to make sure it's not going to impact anything that they're trying to do in terms of their... |
| 00:34:07.76 | Unknown | I think what we would |
| 00:34:12.96 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 00:34:12.98 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:34:12.99 | Doug Lloyd | I'm sure they understand. |
| 00:34:13.50 | Matt Bouchard | Thank you. |
| 00:34:13.57 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 00:34:13.67 | Matt Bouchard | to. |
| 00:34:22.04 | Mary Wagner | their fundraising and future use of the property. But to the extent that it's truly a temporary use and there's no other impact to the project, I don't anticipate we'd have a problem with that. |
| 00:34:30.66 | Unknown | Right, I'm saying that more from a point of view that it's been vacant. Anything that's left vacant is problematic in and of itself. So if there was a temporary use, just keep it from being delinquent for a long period of time, that would be for a year potentially or more until the actual groundbreaking for whatever is done there. Okay, so that's fine. And I'm assuming in your slide before this that obtaining any land use or building entitlements The cost for that includes the cost of actually upgrading the marina to code for whatever the intended use is going to be. |
| 00:35:14.40 | Mary Wagner | Yes, although that of course is subject to negotiation. I mean, they may ask that the city absorb a certain cost or that it be offset against rent income. So we haven't had those level of discussions, |
| 00:35:22.52 | Unknown | So, |
| 00:35:25.42 | Mary Wagner | The cost of the improvements is something that would be negotiated during this period. Thank you. |
| 00:35:30.50 | Unknown | Okay. |
| 00:35:34.74 | Unknown | That's it. |
| 00:35:36.32 | Unknown | She has indicated that she's trying to raise $150,000 during this period, and she hasn't asked for anything from us yet, but I'm sure it will occur to her at some point. |
| 00:35:47.07 | Unknown | She's here, so don't talk trash about it. We're a landlord. But we're a landlord. |
| 00:35:48.30 | Unknown | Not I will. But we're a landlord, and they always ask. All right. So any other comments from the council? Seeing none. Any member of the public care to comment on this item? Chuck? |
| 00:36:08.54 | Charles Melton | Check Donald again, Spencer Avenue. I think it's a good thing. To start off with, I think this is an excellent use of that property. It was good when it was really operating as a school and I think it would be done now. And I'd like to throw in as an aside that I have talked to Heather Richards and a little bit of her background which everyone may not know, but she was hired as a civilian by the Navy to teach sailing. recreational sailing. to the Navy personnel in Tokyo. So she can handle that part of it, no doubt. |
| 00:36:40.50 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:36:41.29 | Charles Melton | Now comes the part. I The impact of putting a facility like that there doesn't stand on its own. First place is a cruising club, And the other part, there's a dumpy park. brings up all the problems which you've already heard of barking and anything in hell. All I say is that When we, the city, does talk to Heather Richards, or whatever we call it. Cass Gidley, We keep in mind that there are other interests in that area. Thank you. |
| 00:37:18.82 | Unknown | Mm-hmm. Thank you, Chair. Anyone else care to comment on this item? Yes, come up, Alice. |
| 00:37:35.39 | Alice Merrill | Alice Merrill, 200 Johnson Street. Yeah. I had to come tonight because Thank you. You all know that I'm positively wanting good things to be happening on the waterfront, and these guys are serious young people who are bringing a lot of energy and interest to the community, which is good. We need young people who are doing that. and And they have great ideas, and I hope that the city can get behind them to help fundraise and, you know, do things. So I know that the Friends of Dunphy Park group wants to develop the parking area and a lot of areas around there, and I would hope that that this could work hand in hand with their ideas. They have some designs that would help with parking in that area, and I believe it all belongs to the city, so it's city, it's something that Citi could be in charge of, and so that that group |
| 00:38:46.59 | Matt Bouchard | It is. |
| 00:38:49.29 | Alice Merrill | get something going they're so desperate to, and that this can get something going, and so that we can start to work together, and I hope that we can do that. Thanks. |
| 00:38:59.65 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for those comments. Anyone else care to address the council on this matter? |
| 00:39:05.98 | Unknown | One last comment if the public comment is closed. Good question. |
| 00:39:09.18 | Unknown | Okay, we'll close public comment. |
| 00:39:11.66 | Unknown | Can we make sure, going back to your lot, the lease plan, that none of it, the actual lease portion is not in the public right-of-way, so that we end up with that whole dilemma that occurred with the Gossips property. So when you, let's redo this, they can have to write a passage, but let's not lease. Right. |
| 00:39:17.00 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:39:38.01 | Unknown | All right, any other comments from the Fiance? Thank you. |
| 00:39:40.06 | Unknown | Mr. Mayor. |
| 00:39:40.60 | Unknown | Yes. |
| 00:39:41.63 | Unknown | Yes, I think this is a great project, and I'm really interested in getting CASF Arena usable again. My only one and only concern, well, as far as we are in the project right now, is that we really watch how we implement the charter boats. because when you start bringing charter boats in there, then you are going to have more traffic and, you know, the issue of restrooms and everything at parking and everything comes up. So I'm assuming that that will be part of a permitting process that will be run through the normal channels. Is that correct? Yes. Okay. Thank you. |
| 00:40:29.39 | Matt Bouchard | Okay. |
| 00:40:31.95 | Unknown | I wouldn't want the tranquility of Dunphy Park destroyed either. We have to balance these things. And Alice, I think you and Chuck should get together. Thank you. |
| 00:40:45.83 | Unknown | All right. Thank you. Jim, any other comments? |
| 00:40:46.99 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:40:49.44 | Unknown | All right, do I have a motion? Thank you. |
| 00:40:53.59 | Unknown | Uh... |
| 00:40:54.30 | Doug Lloyd | the move that we... |
| 00:40:57.28 | Unknown | So I'll make the motion to move that. |
| 00:41:01.37 | Unknown | I want to raise you. |
| 00:41:03.11 | Unknown | That we authorize the city manager to execute the letter of intent with Casked Lee Marina and progress into lease discussions. Second. |
| 00:41:12.56 | Unknown | Second. I don't care. Debbie, would you answer that? We'll just take a voice vote. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? None. All right. Opposed? None. |
| 00:41:15.54 | Unknown | I don't care. |
| 00:41:18.63 | Unknown | W. G. I don't know. |
| 00:41:24.59 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:41:24.69 | Mary Wagner | Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. |
| 00:41:29.23 | Unknown | And I would, Heather, I would do, as Alice said, take advantage of all the fine folk that can help you raise the money. |
| 00:41:41.04 | Doug Lloyd | as a as just as just on the way out |
| 00:41:42.24 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:41:42.27 | Unknown | as just as just on the way out that had chucked and check a very close |
| 00:41:44.75 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:41:47.37 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 00:41:48.26 | Unknown | Thank you. . All right, moving on, it's now time for the second actuarial evaluation of other post-employment benefits, OPEB. Charlie? |
| 00:42:01.49 | Unknown | Mr. Mayor, I asked our actuary to come at 8 o'clock because I didn't want to pay him an extra hour to wait for the agenda item. Uh-oh. If there's an agenda item that will only take 17 minutes and 22 seconds before me, |
| 00:42:01.90 | Unknown | Mayor. |
| 00:42:08.66 | Unknown | If there's an agenda item that will only take 17 minutes and 22 seconds, I don't think the next one is going to be that short. |
| 00:42:17.41 | Unknown | Okay. I could start the actuarial evaluation because we had prepared a joint presentation where I was going to give the introduction. |
| 00:42:17.78 | Unknown | Thank you. I could |
| 00:42:26.37 | Doug Lloyd | Can you take this one? |
| 00:42:27.89 | Unknown | If that's okay. |
| 00:42:29.34 | Adam Politzer | This is... |
| 00:42:30.23 | Unknown | Yes. |
| 00:42:30.45 | Adam Politzer | I would go ahead and because I know there are folks here for the Economic Forum discussion Mr. Mayor, if it's okay, I would move them ahead. I think you should be in tandem. |
| 00:42:39.26 | Doug Lloyd | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 00:42:39.43 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:42:39.46 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 00:42:39.61 | Matt Bouchard | the day. |
| 00:42:39.78 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 00:42:41.77 | Adam Politzer | Okay. I'm sorry. I would move the economic forum item up, because I know there's people here in the audience waiting for that. |
| 00:42:47.65 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 00:42:47.66 | Unknown | Okay. All right. So we will do that. We'll move on to item D, which is the acceptance of the community and economic development study prepared by the Marina Economic Forum. And Jeremy, are you going to? begin. Our artist Jeremy. We're missing Jeremy. |
| 00:43:11.66 | Adam Politzer | Jeremy is certainly at his desk working right now. |
| 00:43:14.82 | Unknown | He's coming, okay. There he is. You got bumped up. |
| 00:43:24.26 | Jeremy Graves | So, Mayor, Councilmembers, I'm pleased to do the introductions for the Community and Economic Development Study. The Community and Economic Development Study has been a priority calendar item for the past three years, and the project was jointly funded by the city and the Chamber of Commerce. Our first presenter on this will be Cheryl Popp, a member of the Business Advisory Committee and a past president of the Chamber of Commerce. She will provide an overview of the Business Advisory Committee's actions, and then she'll be followed by Dr. Rob Eiler of the Ruin Economic Forum, who will provide a more detailed report on findings of the study he prepared. And then the staff recommendation is for the council to accept the Sausalito Community and Economic Development Study. And I and the other staff members will be available for any questions. So Cheryl, I'd like to turn it over to you. And Debbie, if you've been able to locate Cheryl's PowerPoint presentation. Thank you. |
| 00:44:22.67 | Matt Bouchard | Cheryl. |
| 00:44:34.36 | Cheryl Popp | Is this the little guy I used to... |
| 00:44:49.23 | Cheryl Popp | Good evening, Mr. Mayor, City Council and City staff. I'm Cheryl Popp. I am here as a member of the Sausalito Business Advisory Committee, as well as representing the Board of Directors of the Sausalito Chamber of Commerce to give you an overview of the long-awaited, much-anticipated Sausalito Community and Economic Development Study. Um, in the, I'm sure you've all waited through all 57 pages, but if you have not, my esteemed colleague, Adam Kravatsky, the chair of the Business Advisory Committee, also did a great progress report and overview, If you haven't gotten to those, and even if you have, I'm going to give you just sort of a big, broad brushstroke overview of what we've done, what we've learned, and hopefully what we will do going forward with this valuable new resource we have. So as Jeremy noted, the The study was commissioned by Sausalito City Council. Thank you very much for supporting it. In October of 2010, it was co-sponsored by the, and funded by the Sausalito Chamber of Commerce, and managed by the Sausalito Business Advisory Committee. We have been working for about a year and a half now with the Marine Economic Forum under the auspices of Dr. Rob Eiler, who's the head of economics at Sonoma State. He's been the key economist we have worked with who has conducted the survey and prepared it for us at this point. Rob is here this evening and will be giving an even more detailed report and we'll also be available to answer questions. So the purpose of the study, basically it was to develop an empirical economic database, a factual database, which we've never really had. We've never had these benchmarks to work from. And, um, The idea is that it will provide us the ability to make more informed choices and decisions regarding community and economic development. The purpose was also to help us determine the economic impact of different industry groups and analyze sort of what's the best and optimal business mix here. You're going to hear a lot about this multiplier effect. If a new company comes to town and they're generating $100 million in revenues, and they've got 20 employees. That impacts the sales tax base and impacts retail sales. There's a real impact and we now know how, we have the metrics to define and determine that. and basically determine what are the lowest impact yet highest return businesses. based on that, make sound policy decisions. The process as, whoops. you The process, as I think Jeremy mentioned, was the project started in October 2010. We did a short-term business needs study. A first draft went to the Business Advisory Committee in May last year. We did a resident survey. There was public review and comment. Final study was then submitted this last December. It's been very comprehensive. And the next steps are what we're here to discuss this evening and to develop a public-private action plan. Some of the top line statistics and demographics are pretty interesting, I think. This isn't all of them by any means. I just pulled some of them out. Interestingly enough, 77% of the companies, businesses in Sausalito are non-retail. I don't think most of us realize that. Professional services. generate 388 million a year with close to 1,300 employees. And the retail, hospitality, and tourism industry, which we think of as dominating this community, is big. It's 80 million a year and 1,100 employees, but not as big as this non-retail sector. Of all these employees, I think it's interesting to note that 93% of them live elsewhere. We know from the recent census that the median age here is 51. 50% of our housing units are rentals and those are small ones. They are 1.7 people per household on average. So these are all things that are, I think, going to help us move forward and make the right decisions. Some other statistics that came out of this report, all based on the economic data we gathered. Marinship is, in fact, the largest business and employee base here in Sausalito, with over 3,000 employees. And it also represents the most excess commercial capacity. Shipboat building, repair and maintenance, marine service industries are in decline, not only here, but nationwide. Professional and technical service sector companies have actually grown in the past five years. And these are some figures you've heard bandied about. AC34 or the America's Cup will in fact generate, they estimate, over $1.6 billion in new business in the Bay Area. 11,000 new jobs and 107 million in tax revenue. So it's going to have a huge impact. And I always like this one. Sausalito actually has the highest TOT in Marin County, which I didn't realize, 12%. So that means we've got some money to deal with. Some of the major findings that are again supported by the economic data that we have compiled. Non-retail businesses drive retail sales. Butler, Shine & Stern is a huge advertising agency down on Liberty Shipway. They've got 200 employees. Those 200 employees buy lunch here, they stay for dinner, they shop local, they spend local, they shop locally. They have a huge impact on local retail sales. This won't come as a surprise to some people, but the study also shows that the Marin ship is in fact a very underutilized area with huge economic potential for Sausalito. The study also has given us, as I mentioned, metrics on how to target low impact industry groups and maximize this multiplier effect that I was talking about. It has also given us a regional perspective on Sausalito. We know it's a gateway to Marin and Sonoma counties, but how do we capitalize on that? Some other major findings. We now have economic impact data for new business attraction and retention. We can figure out far better now with this data where are the industry gaps and Where do we get the biggest bang for our buck in attracting new business? The economic data also shows that our waterfront can, in fact, be better utilized by all constituencies, residents, visitors, retail and non-retail businesses. The study also shows and demonstrates the benefit from clustering certain businesses and the value of developing what we call identities here. Silicon Valley has a big identity. It's technology. Our tourist community actually has an identity of some sort. We're known for our houseboats, our artists, and our waterfront dining. But our business community doesn't have an identity. We're not known as digital media or green tech. And this study demonstrates the value of owning one of those sectors. So that gives us something to consider and could, in fact, provide a real competitive edge for us. This is an interesting, I found this very interesting. I did not realize that Sausalito is a hub for professional, technical, and scientific companies in Marin County. We have more than other cities in Marin. We talked about the economic impact models, which the study provides. I know Rob's going to talk more about that. We also learned that, not surprisingly, higher occupancy, whether it's hotel rooms, restaurant tables, boat slips, impacts Sausalito's overall economy. If they're empty, they impact it as well. And of course, not surprisingly, Sausalito has a huge opportunity to capitalize on its proximity to San Francisco. The study talks at length about not underestimating the value and the potential and opportunity that America's Cup AC34 provides. Whether we're implementing infrastructure improvements or creating long-term partnerships, it indicates that these can all have an ongoing benefit for the Sausalito economy. And finally, while there are very high barriers to entry into the marine sector today, we're probably not going to be building Liberty ships down here ever again or be an Oakland or Alameda port. There are niche markets in the marine sector which we could cultivate and develop, which help us in preserving the marine industry, which we do value. This is just an example of one of the charts you'll find in the study. And if you look at the two, I'm sorry, it's difficult to read, but if you look at the two large bars with the arrows, Um, The one on the far right shows that there's a very high number of home-based businesses. I think it's 200, no, 267, but they generate a very small percentage of business revenue. Unlike a smaller number, 262, of the technical, scientific, and professional service companies in town that generate 388 million. So it gets back to which businesses do we want to cultivate and go after that are going to have a low impact on the environment and on our way of life in the community, but are going to generate huge revenue for us. We also did a resident survey, which was part of what City Council tasked us with and wanted included. It included open forums with individuals and groups, a confidential survey mailed to every resident. And we were actually quite delighted and overwhelmed with the response rate. It was double the normal survey participation. We got 461 responses or an 8.3 percent response rate, which is really high. Not surprisingly, based on our median age, 79% of those respondents were over 45 years old. And what I thought was interesting is that 72% of the business respondents have been operating here for over five years. So they've been in the trenches and they kind of get what's going on business-wise and have dealt with the off-again, on-again economy. I'm not going to go into a lot of this, but the survey did give us an additional database, a more qualitative one, on what our businesses and residents felt, what sort of new businesses they were looking for, like a health food store, a bakery, a drug store. They did talk about the policy and permitting process being somewhat of a detriment to new businesses. Um, They like tourism, but let's keep it in the downtown area. And couldn't there be better coordination between government and businesses? So there's a lot more in that survey as well. So the conclusions, and again, these are broad conclusions and just a smattering sort of the highlights based on the community and economic study that you now have in your hand. Clearly, proactive economic development is essential for Sausalito's ongoing fiscal stability. There's no question about that if you look at this economic data. We now have the data to target low impact, high benefit industries, which we haven't had before. Clearly, a strong local economy improves resident quality of life, actually improves it and helps it. I don't think we've ever had data that kind of supports that concept. And last but not least, policy decisions for the marineship have got to be made. There are continuing issues, which this report also addresses. None of these will come as a surprise. Business and tourist growth can be great for the economy. It's important, but it does create more traffic. Maybe if we bring more business to town and generate more revenues, we'll have the funds to fund more infrastructure to deal with parking and bicycle traffic issues. Um, Clearly, the bi-local more focus and support for local businesses is important. and Really essentially what this study does is it raises so many questions, innovative ideas that help us identify opportunities. So what's our action plan? We would like City Council to accept this report, and we'd like you to put us on your next agenda and to provide us with some direction. Business Advisory Committee would like to organize a joint City Council Planning Commission work session. to review the issues and topics that are raised in this study. We're looking at maybe a Saturday morning and bringing everyone together Um, What do we do and who does it? How do we move forward with this data? It's a tool we haven't had. Let's take advantage of it. Business Advisory Committee has also offered to go out to Rotary, it's also the Women's Club, the different constituencies in town, and inform them about this study. Let's share it with people. Let's let them know what's happening, what's going on. get them engaged and of course we will continue to collaborate with the Chamber of Commerce identifying the best target businesses. We're also asking Council to please prioritize and update public policies that guide marine ship planning. We know you have that priority list you do in April, and we're hoping that this is not number 49 and 50 like it was last year. We think it's also very important based on this, the economic data in this study that we formalize an economic development framework. Whether that means bringing on a consultant, hiring full-time staff, this needs to be a dedicated focus in order for us to really take advantage of this data and move forward and make a difference with it. Thank you. We need some sort of a structure. The volunteer capacities of the business advisory committee in the chamber are limited. So that pretty much concludes our presentation. I just want to say that I'm personally very excited about this study, having been involved with it from the very beginning. I think it's a huge resource that has previously not been available to us, but that we now have the tools and factual data that can truly make a difference in creating a more sustainable, sustainable economic future here that also enhances our community and our quality of life. Happy reading. I hope you enjoy it. Before we call for questions, I wanted to just recognize my colleagues on the Business Advisory Committee. It's been an honor to collaborate with them. Adam Kravatsky, our chair, Peter Van Meter, Joe Lemon, and Chris Gallagher. Some of us aren't here, but we've got a good showing tonight, and we would all be happy to answer your questions. uh, To be more prudent with time, you might want to hear from Rob first and then ask us all questions. Does that make sense? Okay, great. Thank you so much. Thank you. |
| 00:59:45.55 | Jeremy Graves | Oh, yeah, it's fine. Thanks a lot. |
| 00:59:49.16 | Rob Eiler | Good evening, Mayor and City Councilmembers. Thanks for having me again here. I'll just wait for you guys to pop that up. |
| 00:59:51.81 | Jeremy Graves | me again here. |
| 00:59:58.61 | Rob Eiler | So Cheryl did an outstanding job of really setting up what this study is about. I'm going to walk you through some more of the detail and the meat and potatoes of the technique involved specific to the economic impacts and kind of lead you up to that point and then talk more about how to use the data in such a way that this report does not sit on the shelf. I know one of the major complaints about past studies, which I get everywhere I do a study, is this becomes a gigantic volume that goes on a shelf somewhere, either in a city council or in a planner's office, and sits there forever and collects dust, and somebody finally blows it off the dust, you know, 10 years later and says, okay, now let's redo it again. This is something that actually can be, in a sense, have some organic life to it. So consider that. And then when I go through this, I'll show you an example of that. Bye. What I want to do just to get started is going to tell you the way I approached it. So, The idea here is to look at Sausalito as a place to do business and the components in which it does business. I originally took the look at Sausalito where there were three specific parts. There was the downtown area, the Caledonia area, and the Marin Ship as sort of three business areas. And that sort of morphed into really thinking about how residents, tourists, tourists, commuting workers, all kind of jammed together to help fund Sausalito businesses. And in a sense, that's exactly what happens. And that's true for any city economy. Sausalito just happens to be a little bit different, as we'll see in a minute, by the nature of how much commuting takes place as a percentage of the total employment base, by the nature of the level of tourism that comes in here vis-à-vis what else happens in Marin County, and some of the other aspects of it being right on the coast. So one of the things we want to talk about is this retail versus non-retail aspect in Sausalito, what happens in the Marin ship, the idea of how to use economic impact analysis to look at the commercial space that's available, to think about what happens when a business comes and leaves. Another real important aspect of doing community and development is not only looking at, well, what happens when a firm comes into a city, but also what is the detriment when one leaves? Because it helps you plan better to say if this, if one company comes in, it may cause other companies to leave, or we have heard that a company is leaving, what's that going to do to our own planning cycle and how does that affect us? This data can show you all that. |
| 01:02:05.78 | Unknown | I don't know. |
| 01:02:14.03 | Rob Eiler | And then finally, I'll give you some of my own opinions, conclusions, and recommendations. So. Uh, As a place to do business, so one thing to recognize is that, and Cheryl said a lot of this, I'm just going to focus on a couple of things, is that non-retail is the dominant factor. That is true almost anywhere. It's very difficult to find a place where retail is the dominant factor. Cordo Madera in Marin County may be a little closer to where retail is really the dominant factor. business sector. But I think there was some misconceptions about this concerning Sausalito before we dug into the data that it seemed like because most of the obvious activity is downtown and is very vibrant around retail. But it is dominated by non-retail. The other piece of this is that Professional services and retail services are very different in how much revenue they generate for local businesses, but not that much different in how many people they employ. This is also a classic result, but it's also something just to consider that what you're getting with professional services, and Cheryl alluded to this, you're getting a lot of revenue with a small amount of people, which is nice. The problem with Sausalito, which is a great problem to have, is that the tourism flow begs retail, restaurants, and other sort of high number of employees, low margin activity or I think what Cheryl was alluding to as a low multiplier business is because that's just – you don't want to leak all that away to some other place and it's a good tax driver. So, the other piece of this is to recognize how many home-based businesses there are, and I can talk a little bit more about that later as far as thinking about that in terms of community development. So one of the most shocking pieces of this, the census data tells us, is that most of the workers in Sausalito commute into Sausalito. There's also a lot of people that leave Sausalito every day and go somewhere else. But one thing, when you think about that as far as community development and thinking about the economics of that, you have a transient, in a sense, employee base coming in every day of the week, where they come in from the working hours and then leave. And you have to think about how that can potentially support or reduce the support for retail and related services unless there's a cohesive strategy about how to keep that demand in place. So the combination of tourism and commuters, when you add those two pieces together, you want to have, in a sense, consistent demand. for retail and related services, not have it so episodic that basically you might as well have everybody open from 9 to 5 and shut it down and everybody goes home from work. You want to have a nice, you want to have a flow that gives you a nice diverse set of businesses. The MarinShip is the dominant factor in how many, or the dominant place for people work. And the short-term business needs study that BAC did showed a lot about where the major portions of Sausalito's commercial real estate existed in a vacant format and where most of the business development is likely to come as it comes forward over time. So that's another piece of this that Cheryl didn't talk too much about and is in the study, but you guys have already seen it in past meetings. Bottom line is the combination of these two really should be tracked over time. I'll talk about this later. That the short-term business needs study should be updated as annually as these guys want to do it. I don't know if they really want to go walk the streets again between Christmas and New Year's like they did last time. But the bottom line is that that kind of data, if it flows from commercial real estate brokers, and you guys got plenty of connections to that data here, utilize that data for two reasons. One, it tells you what you have in current excess capacity. It also tells you the types of firms that come in and go out to help Charlie and you all plan the financial aspects of the city. So keep that in mind. Let's talk about retail briefly. Cheryl alluded to this. I want to really make this point. stick. We've got to consider vacant hotel rooms, restaurant tables, and boat slips just like vacant commercial space. They are a commercial place where revenue is derived for local businesses. And it's easy to get caught up in the idea that, you know, 1,200 square foot Class A office space is commercial space. It's not true in and by itself. There are many ways to look at commercial space, and it should be planned for in a similar fashion. Can you augment the amount of occupancy at your hotels? Can you augment the number of tables that are occupied? Can you increase the number of boat slips that are occupied? And America's Cup adds an opportunity for all those pieces in retail to happen all at once. And the study that Cheryl suggested in her report came from the Bay Area Economic the Bay Area Council's Economic Institute did not come from me. But that data is very similar to what we did in this report in the sense that it says, look, if you assume that these flows are going to come in, This is the expansive effect it's going to have on the entire Bay Area, which includes Sausalito without stating it outright in that report. If you've seen that report from the BACEI, check it out, because I think it's a very eye-opening as to how wide the breadth of effects are going to be on businesses of all kinds of types when the America's Cup finally comes. So watch for that. But the main, the epicenter, that's going to be on retailers. So in terms of non-retail, The main point I want to make here is not to go over the numbers so much. You can read those in the report. But to think about how businesses support each other in a complementary fashion. So if you think about the connection from one company to another, you're really talking about potentially connecting parts of the supply chain. Sausalito does this very well with tourism. There's a large breadth of potential services that support tourism in this city. The idea now would be to look at commercial space and utilize that commercial space in such a way to, in a sense, link up other parts of the supply chain for businesses that already exist here. For example, what does Heath Ceramics need in a new business that might support them? What does Butler Shayan need to support them sticking around? Because the real issue is what happens if they leave? What hole does that create in city finances, in city government in general, if that takes place? So it's a shaped idea. How can you plan in a shaped fashion that brings all these things to bear at once? The data will show you a lot of that. But on the non-retail side, it really boils down to professional technical services, some personal services, but all that complementing in a sense and driving potential retail opportunities and that's how they're really connected. One thing to think about and this is something that very few areas have. Anaheim, California is probably a good example of an area that really is driven primarily by the exportation of retail services. It's very rare to find city dominated by retail and not dominated by non-retail feeding into the retail sector alongside of something else, like let's say tourism. Think about how those things interplay. as you're looking forward. Non-retail is very important. so The Marin ship in specific, thinking about non-retail. The niche ideas out there in marine could easily complement what's going on in green design and other sectors of the economy to where There's no one marine sector that needs to be pursued. There could be some really good complements out there to what already exists in clustering in Marin, or sorry, in Sausalito and in other parts of Marin. Please consider that. When you're thinking about what can happen in a marine ship specific to the marine industry, the breadth of what's possible down there, it has to be considered. I have location cubes. Sorry, that's my math joke for the evening. Location, location, location. Commercial space and needs. The Marinship is a really good place in terms of non-retail commercial space for two reasons. One, it has good access for a wide number of firms for their own business, but also for their employees to come in and out of town and not necessarily disrupt the flow of what happens in the downtown area of Sausalito that might be more tourism driven and have a different access route into town. So it's good that in a sense the planning going forward should look at the Marinship as a way of expanding non-retail because the space is there in terms of vacant commercial space in place. And how you look at the diversity of businesses can be affected immediately by how in fact you bring in those new businesses. So that new business attraction and how you expand in the marinship will then lead to the economic impacts that will drive other businesses wanting to locate in Sausalito and continue to fill up space. The America's Cup, the marine ship will probably be the spot, the main spot concerning the water where the America's Cup affects Sausalito. It may not be the biggest business piece of it, which may be spread throughout the city, but will likely be the biggest commercial area as far as where the ships are going to come in. So consider how that's going to also mesh up. We know the downtown area is going to be affected by people on foot and people coming into the city. Think about how the industrial piece of America's Cup is going to be affected and how the marinship is going to play a role. Now in terms of methods, if you've read through the report, you know it's a mix of primary and secondary data. The economic impacts themselves are secondary data reconstituted in such a way that we can use it for analysis. The first appendix shows you a bunch of different possibilities. You pick an industry, it tells you what the effects are if you bring in a million dollars of revenue. Check that out too. What the data are meant to do is explain industrial connections and scenario analyses. It's meant to give you a way of plugging in a number and saying, if this new firm is going to make a million dollars, it's going to have this effect on the city across these industries. So it gives you a planning tool that will live on beyond this report. which may, you know, I don't want to be so bold as to say that that's, you know, an amazing result. But it is rare if you talk to people about these reports that it actually has a life. There's very few reports that are going to give you the breadth of data that this report does. It usually says this is what happens for this industry. There are 400 industries named in this report. Okay. So watch out for that. Um, Let's talk now about how to use the data. So if we focus my energy from this point forward basically on the impact data, the idea here is there is a multiplier effect as Cheryl alluded to. And it really focuses on business revenue, employment, and state and local taxes. Those are the big three multipliers in these type of analyses. We think about it at the entry of a firm, the expansion of a firm, but when one leaves, what happens? And you want to be able to compare multiple scenarios. This data allows that to happen very quickly. And I'm going to show you how that works in just a sec. So the basic idea ultimately is the following. firm comes in, makes revenue of its own accord, but it's going to use services and other companies within the city, which will give what's called an indirect effect. So the direct effect is the revenue the main firm generates. The indirect effect is how it uses services around it locally to generate revenue for those companies. And then they all and their workers spend money on the wide breadth of services the entire city makes. The sum of those effects, direct and direct and induced are the total effects on the economy by the entry of just one firm. So the multiplication. spend money on the wide breadth of services the entire city makes. The sum of those effects, direct, indirect, and induced, are the total effects on the economy by the entry of just one firm. So the multiplicative effect is how much more do the indirect and induced effects have than the original effect brought in by the firm. For example, you have a new restaurant show up. That restaurant uses linen service. to clean The restaurant's revenues are the direct. The linen services revenues that are now increased are the indirect effect in how all their workers spend money across the broad spectrum of businesses within Sausalito are the induced effects, and the sum of those parts is the total. That's one example. I'm going to show you another one in a sec. But the bottom line is it's a good way of forecasting how other companies are going to be affected by one company being attracted or expanded. Okay. So the example I look at is environmental design. In tables 3A, 4A, and 5A of the first appendix, you'll see these numbers. But the bottom line is if a new design firm came in and made $1 million of revenue, The number suggests that that would have an overall impact on Sausalito, leading to 11.4 employees new to the city. $1.532 million in new business revenue overall, which is the $1 million by the new design firm plus $532,000 of additional revenue across businesses throughout Sausalito. and that their state and local taxes would be generated of $29,700. So there is a way now to plan on one, How many new workers would you expect? So if traffic is an issue, if the concerns about how much space you're going to need to house a certain number of firms becomes an issue because of the number of employees that they need, This gives you a planning tool to figure out that metric. The second, it tells you how much total revenue you're going to get out of that investment. And third, it potentially gives you a way of looking at the tax base change. Okay. So, Another way of thinking about that is if there's more than a million dollars of revenue coming in, You start here. Take the total in millions that's going to come in for the firm itself, In other words, get it down to basically a one digit integer and then multiply that across those multipliers. So if it's 2 million, it'd be 22.8. three-point 064, etc. Does that make sense? Super. So when you think about looking at commercial space, you can look at bang for buck through the following way. If you take a look at that metric per square foot of space you're looking at, it gives you a way of comparing and contrasting where you're getting your biggest bang for buck on. community development. So it's also a way of looking at how you're planning and how well you're doing, looking at just these. Okay. So consider that. The beauty of this is it informs everybody about what's going on and what the potential is. So. One thing we did, and Cheryl said this was do a climate survey. We asked questions of the residents, the business owners, and those that were both. We surveyed every mailing address in Sausalito. And the three major opinions that came out of it in my mind were that there was a recognition that business growth causes traffic. So if there was a concern, one concern was, well, if there's sort of unmetered growth, then there's going to be a bunch of new traffic, and I'm going to have trouble getting back on the street. And a lot of it was a mix of both bike and car and foot traffic. It was – or I shouldn't say both – of all three types of potential traffic besides seafaring traffic. That's an issue, not a shocker. Parking. How am I going to park? How am I going to get my customers to park? This is still an issue. Again, not a shocker. The preservation of the historic waterfront, not a shocker. All three of these issues came up. There was no dominant issue. But these things were reflected and, of course, VAC will probably dig deeper into those results. So some of the recommendations I have is that you've got to continue and expand the partnerships. Use the data. across the board. The data in this report, updated commercial real estate data, What has become more vacant? What has become less vacant? What new firms have come in? What firms have gone out? the types of firms that exist in homes, All that stuff is good data to think about shaping the growth and the changes that will happen in Sausalito. It could also be shaping the devolution of business unless it's planned for going forward. This is why you have to think about both directions, try to avoid the devolution, and try to move on the evolution if you can. Um, Keep people informed. Another thing that came out of the survey is that we want to hear some. We want to hear more about it. We had 130 people, I think, give their address and their name in the survey openly and say, yeah, let me know what's going on. So those are things I think that BAC should also consider contacting those folks and getting them involved in town hall meetings, maybe a mailer about what's been going on in terms of new businesses that are coming to town, et cetera. |
| 01:17:50.61 | Rob Eiler | The commercial space, I mean, I can't say more about this than that. Every city in California has the lament of having some more, having larger vacancy than they want in commercial space. Five, six years ago, we weren't talking about this. For the last five or six years, short of job issues, commercial space has been a big deal across California. One of the biggest deals is that we are worried about what types of businesses are going to continue to use commercial space. That's what makes this type of planning so important because you want to think about where are niche strategies and businesses that can move into commercial space that's going to sit there otherwise but could totally be utilized and expand the total base of the city. So a lot of cities sit around and they don't know how to plan. This report provides you with a path. developing metrics for change. I threw some out there. I think that one of the things that BAC's got to do is consider what should be the key metrics. You all and Charlie should also consider what are the main metrics to look at how to shape growth. And I talk about shape growth because You don't want to have unmetered growth. It is a bad play to just say, just let it go without any constraint. But when you shape it, recognize how you're shaping it. When you say no to this, you're saying no to a bunch of other businesses that are going to depend on that. And when you say yes to this, you are also saying yes in a sense to complementary businesses that are naturally from the economic impacts going to want to come in. And if they don't come in, you leak. that way which is the other threat you've got to watch out when you do planning. So, real quick, I just wanted to thank a few folks. BAC and the city staff, thank you guys. If it wasn't for you, this had never gotten done. Chamber of Commerce, their membership added and matched what you all put in, which was great. City Council, you all, thank you for your comments and meeting with me. Again, if it wasn't for you in hearing those things and thinking and shaping this report the way that we all can use it, This is what not had gotten done. I put Charles' name up there. The only reason I'm standing here today is because Charles and Cheryl talked about this probably two and a half years ago maybe. So if it wasn't for Charles, we wouldn't be standing here today and all that participated, all the people that I interviewed, everybody that got involved, which is great. So if you have any questions or concerns beyond that, be sure to email me. I mean, obviously I'm here for questions now, but if anything comes up, let me know what's going on. Thank you. Thank you. Sure. |
| 01:20:15.38 | Unknown | Will you stay for some questions? Let's go. |
| 01:20:23.11 | Unknown | I said a couple of more technical questions. on the multiplier effect. Yeah. |
| 01:20:29.42 | Doug Lloyd | Yeah. |
| 01:20:32.03 | Unknown | Is that drawn from sort of a larger empirical study of, and then you use those sort of multipliers that are from a bigger pool to kind of say, you know, a service firm that does X will create X amount of jobs in this sector. Yeah. |
| 01:20:47.51 | Rob Eiler | Yeah, I can't take credit for generating the matrices in which that data exists. |
| 01:20:51.58 | Unknown | Yes, yes. But is that, you know, in such a small community, these multipliers can't be fulfilled within or is it possible is a better way to phrase it because I don't know the answer to this. |
| 01:21:01.25 | Joe Lemon | I don't know. |
| 01:21:04.70 | Unknown | you know, that in a small community where you or is it going to leak by definition outside so the multiplier effect is perhaps smaller than in a larger sort of empirical study? Thank you. |
| 01:21:16.57 | Rob Eiler | Classic question. Good. One of the pitfalls of these types of studies is that you think it's linear in the sense that, well, if we grew |
| 01:21:16.59 | Unknown | . |
| 01:21:25.95 | Rob Eiler | $1 billion of new revenue in Sausalito, then wouldn't we just get $1 billion divided by $1 million times the multipliers? And the answer is no. There will be some non-linearities based on space and the idea that at some point you basically outgrow your environs. So yes, that's true. Now, the point, though, is that most growth is going to take place in what you'd call a relevant range of growth, in the sense that if one firm comes in with 20 employees, then the multipliers are going to basically hold. It's really when you start to grow. In other words, these data are usually updated every two or three years to take into account two major things. One, changes in the macro economy, and two, the potential for more leakage based on the growth of the area's definition against what the old multipliers were. So you usually want to use the latest data. This will get you home as far as most of it for a while. |
| 01:22:14.47 | Unknown | In terms of sort of wearing the hat of not just general economic growth, but putting on my city council hat that I have to look for revenue streams for the city. |
| 01:22:25.84 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 01:22:28.51 | Unknown | Obviously, the reason why I would say by and large is true of California in general because of Prop 13 is that it's become sort of focused on retail and sales tax driven businesses because that's direct into the city. And But in your study here, given the dichotomy of perception of retail versus the more standard commercial businesses. Where is the Did you get a chance to look at sort of these multiplier effects of these businesses into the tax base, and where are the kind of, from your research in this, what are providing the greatest impact both now and potentially going forward? Not in terms of what percentage, if we know what those are, if we get those from Charlie, but really like what the what can alter your tax base on a more that you have a billion dollar company, you'll never get a billion dollar company, but you have a 10 million dollar company perhaps |
| 01:23:28.82 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:23:28.84 | Doug Lloyd | Yeah, yeah. |
| 01:23:29.81 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:23:31.79 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 01:23:31.82 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 01:23:32.31 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 01:23:32.33 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:23:32.43 | Doug Lloyd | Mm-hmm. |
| 01:23:33.29 | Unknown | in different sectors, that's going to impact the tax base in a much different way. |
| 01:23:36.80 | Unknown | Mm-hmm. |
| 01:23:36.87 | Unknown | Thank you. So like a professional firm that doesn't generate sales tax, even though they have 10 employees or whatever, |
| 01:23:37.17 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:23:42.64 | Unknown | will generate some sales tax versus a firm that's selling a product that could be taxed, blah, blah, blah. So I'm trying to look for some guidance to that and some general findings that you surveyed just on what our economy is now. |
| 01:23:59.01 | Rob Eiler | Sure. So two things to try to answer that because you're asking a gigantic planning question if you don't know, right? And I'm sure you do. But let me try to box it in a little bit. |
| 01:24:03.87 | Unknown | question. |
| 01:24:09.03 | Unknown | Well, I think. |
| 01:24:09.71 | Rob Eiler | you should. |
| 01:24:09.79 | Unknown | of the future. |
| 01:24:09.84 | Rob Eiler | to the future. |
| 01:24:09.86 | Unknown | you know the answer. |
| 01:24:11.11 | Rob Eiler | I hope so, yeah. We'll see. |
| 01:24:11.39 | Unknown | So yeah, we'll see. |
| 01:24:12.34 | Rob Eiler | But I can give you, again, I have sort of a large general answer I'm not going to waste your time on in detail here tonight. But I can give you two kind of basic ways of looking at it. One is that you can say that from a tax-based standpoint, yeah, you're right, Prop 13 kind of puts a fence around what you can do in terms of expansion and expecting new property tax rolls. So you look at where can I get the biggest sales tax bang because that's the quickest, goes right to the city call for no issue, right? Thank you. Uh, But thinking about what's really out there and given what the results of study, you say as you draw in new non-retail businesses that may or may not, my second piece of this will come back to that question, may or may not be direct sales tax providers, by having a coordinated planning path, as those businesses grow or as you bring in new ones is you coordinate it with retail that may be providing either final goods and services or getting business to business sales tax receipts, either way you are trying to keep those taxes here in Sausalito. So those complementary firms as non-retail firms occupy the current vacant space is key, or you'll just leak all those away to the rest of the Marin or to San Francisco. So that's part of the planning process. The other one is to actually try to shape the growth where most of the growth is going to come in in business-to-business sales taxes where you're actually getting sort of a double whammy. You have businesses come in that actually generate sales taxes between each other and then generate sales taxes again when their workers in those businesses go out and buy final retail goods. So those are the parts of the path that when you're thinking about from a city standpoint, you should consider both paths. and see which one kind of fits the mold of your current commercial space that's available. and what you want to see happen in the city's evolution. Does that help? Thank you. Great. Thanks. |
| 01:25:58.36 | Unknown | Mr. Mayor. Oh, go ahead. |
| 01:26:01.08 | Unknown | I'll ask a couple questions if that's okay, Mr. Mayor, and then I'll yield. So I guess my first question is... If I look at page 15, |
| 01:26:22.21 | Unknown | Let's see. Page 15. It says, home-based businesses as tracked by city business licenses in Sausalito represent a broad base of industries mainly. So I know we have, I think, an external service that tracks our business licenses. And so you could decipher, I guess they put them in categories with respect to |
| 01:26:36.13 | Matt Bouchard | Mm-hm. |
| 01:26:40.81 | Matt Bouchard | MMM. |
| 01:26:42.66 | Unknown | what industries they are. So, okay, just wanted to make sure that I understood that. And my next question is on page 12, there is a statement that says the Marin ship provides the best setting for Saucido to grow and enhance its business opportunities. |
| 01:26:44.90 | Doug Lloyd | Yes. |
| 01:27:08.99 | Unknown | to industrial, commercial, recreational, marine businesses. I was wondering, did... You also take a look at the infrastructure challenges of the marine ships. in factoring that the. |
| 01:27:21.07 | Rob Eiler | I just simply looked at the vacant commercial real estate that currently exists. Okay. Vis-a-vis what else exists outside the marriage shift. |
| 01:27:24.06 | Unknown | Okay. Okay, thank you. |
| 01:27:27.95 | Rob Eiler | Of course. |
| 01:27:28.07 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. And I will let the rest of the council ask some questions. |
| 01:27:34.23 | Debbie | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 01:27:39.24 | Unknown | I just have one question. Mine's on all the time. |
| 01:27:40.31 | Doug Lloyd | Mine's on all the time. Thank you. |
| 01:27:42.15 | Unknown | Okay, and that is what reports and data did you use for the statement that the marine-based businesses in Sausalito looks to be in decline? I saw some in here that seemed to be national. were there any detailed Was there a detailed look at our marine services here now and over the years, say the past five or ten years, to see if they were indeed in decline? |
| 01:28:18.27 | Rob Eiler | The only data that really exists is state and national. And I used my interviews with local merchants and local business people that were in marine services really to populate that other piece. So there's no study that says here is the path that Sausalito's been on for the last five or ten years that I used. No. |
| 01:28:35.82 | Unknown | Yeah. I was just, you know, we, of course, have bad economic times. Did you talk to them about, say, how they've been doing, say, over the last five or ten years and if their business has dropped? I'm just wondering if those figures are... Really good. |
| 01:28:55.57 | Rob Eiler | Oh, again, I went on what they told me. as far as their experience over the last five or ten years. But I didn't do my own individual study of the individual businesses in Sausalito and the marine-based business, no. |
| 01:28:59.79 | Unknown | as far as regards. |
| 01:29:04.11 | Doug Lloyd | Two miles. |
| 01:29:09.81 | Doug Lloyd | Okay. |
| 01:29:09.83 | Rob Eiler | Thank you. I tried to give sort of a macro picture of what was going on as far as planning is concerned. |
| 01:29:14.47 | Doug Lloyd | Mm-hmm. |
| 01:29:15.02 | Rob Eiler | And that really tried to set the stage to say, if we're going to look at an expansion, consider niche complementary businesses in marine as a first pass that may be an easier play than starting a new shipyard, for example. |
| 01:29:15.30 | Doug Lloyd | And that really tried to save |
| 01:29:27.02 | Unknown | Yeah, I don't think we'll do that. I guess what I'd really like to see is since we've had so much marine activity down there, is a more in-depth |
| 01:29:38.04 | Matt Bouchard | is. |
| 01:29:42.18 | Unknown | study analysis in that area and maybe I'm looking at staff or someone else to do that because or the chamber because I, you know, the emphasis has been on marine, and certainly we're in an area that's populated with boats all over the place, and fewer and fewer boat yards, so, and I know we have several good repair facilities in the marine ship, so that, I would like to pursue that just a little bit further. |
| 01:30:16.13 | Rob Eiler | You're more than welcome to ask me in an academic forum to do that too if you want. |
| 01:30:20.62 | Unknown | What? |
| 01:30:21.11 | Rob Eiler | You're more than welcome to ask Marine Economic Forum to produce that survey or that study if you need it. |
| 01:30:26.73 | Unknown | Okay, great. |
| 01:30:28.57 | Rob Eiler | Thank you. |
| 01:30:29.38 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:30:30.02 | Rob Eiler | Sure. Figure I'm on the stage, might as well sell a little bit. |
| 01:30:32.65 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:30:32.67 | Unknown | Mr. Mayor? I'm sorry. Do the other folks have questions? Go ahead. Okay. So just as a follow-up to Council Member Ford's question, I was just curious. I look at page 39, and you have the diagram regarding employment and ship boat marine support services, and you show California and U.S. Did you have these statistics for the Bay Area? |
| 01:30:33.11 | Unknown | Mr. |
| 01:30:39.76 | Matt Bouchard | Go ahead. |
| 01:30:48.90 | Doug Lloyd | Mm-hmm. |
| 01:30:59.26 | Doug Lloyd | Mm-hmm. |
| 01:31:05.25 | Unknown | Or Moran. No, they don't exist. |
| 01:31:07.01 | Rob Eiler | No, they don't exist at this level for either Marin or, say, the Bay Area, per se. From an economic standpoint, it would be very difficult for me to believe that the direction California is going is not a macrocosm of what's going on locally. It would be very difficult to imagine that that's the case, that there's, in these specific industries, that there's some special thing, especially after talking to folks that run marine businesses, that seem to corroborate what you're seeing here at the state level. |
| 01:31:37.57 | Unknown | So I know that when you and I talked about this before you embarked on it, I expressed an interest in maritime green technologies and kind of looking at that |
| 01:31:43.24 | Rob Eiler | Mm-hmm. |
| 01:31:49.53 | Matt Bouchard | kind of looking |
| 01:31:51.88 | Unknown | supply chain and the trends towards that. And I didn't see that explored here as a potential. Did I miss it? I saw green. |
| 01:31:53.04 | Matt Bouchard | Thank you. |
| 01:31:53.09 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:31:53.16 | Alice Merrill | Amen. |
| 01:31:53.41 | Matt Bouchard | . |
| 01:32:01.48 | Rob Eiler | Well, I talked about niche businesses in Marine that were, in a sense, complementing other design firms. |
| 01:32:06.66 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:32:06.88 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 01:32:07.08 | Rob Eiler | Right. But there was not a lot of evidence that that industry was growing in such a way that I can make a pure recommendation along those lines. But I think you're in our conversation. |
| 01:32:15.42 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 01:32:16.38 | Rob Eiler | and what I'm seeing here in terms of commercial space that's available, et cetera, and what's already here as a cluster, That kind of niche can happen. We have to explore whether or not it's feasible to do that, and the economics of bringing those kind of firms in makes sense for those that own those buildings. |
| 01:32:29.78 | Unknown | Mm-hmm. And my follow-up question is, Mr. Mayor, if it's okay. The reason I bring that up is because I listened to President Obama's State of the Union address tonight, this evening, and he referred to manufacturing and the importance of bringing back our manufacturing base and how we have lost so much ground. And yes, it's not only, I mean, many industries are in decline right now in the U.S. in terms of Made in America and bringing the jobs back here. And so are there opportunities here in terms of maritime services, you know, to, I guess I was hoping that I might see strategies to help bolster, you know, the light industrial, you light industrial maritime services base and to encourage that. Do you have an opinion on that in terms of what your research yielded? |
| 01:32:54.37 | Doug Lloyd | Mm-hmm. |
| 01:32:54.81 | Matt Bouchard | . |
| 01:32:59.35 | Matt Bouchard | Thank you. |
| 01:32:59.36 | Doug Lloyd | . |
| 01:32:59.73 | Matt Bouchard | Thank you. |
| 01:33:02.90 | Matt Bouchard | Thank you. |
| 01:33:02.94 | Doug Lloyd | Hmm? |
| 01:33:26.66 | Rob Eiler | No, I did not. Thank you. |
| 01:33:27.68 | Unknown | Okay. . |
| 01:33:29.33 | Unknown | Was that in your scope of, was that in your scope? |
| 01:33:29.47 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 01:33:29.48 | Debbie | Thank you. |
| 01:33:29.50 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:33:29.52 | Debbie | or something. |
| 01:33:30.02 | Debbie | that. |
| 01:33:32.42 | Matt Bouchard | I was. No. |
| 01:33:34.98 | Unknown | Okay. I'll hold my comment until comment. Thank you. |
| 01:33:40.74 | Unknown | I have a question. When you looked at the number of people who work here and then don't live here, it's a staggering number, it's almost the same size as the population. |
| 01:33:48.67 | Doug Lloyd | Mm-hmm. |
| 01:33:54.26 | Unknown | Thank you. Do you find that in all of Marin the same way? Like, for example, in Centerfeld? No, no, but- |
| 01:33:59.28 | Rob Eiler | No, but......the highest? No. But it's not absolutely unique in the sense that Belvedere, Tiburon, Ross, where there is census data on that flow, are similar. But again, that's not a big intellectual leap either because the composition of those communities in this one are relatively similar. |
| 01:34:19.74 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. It's an amazing number. |
| 01:34:23.45 | Rob Eiler | Yeah, it is, but at the same time, if you take it in context, it's part of the game. |
| 01:34:27.20 | Unknown | part of the Thank you. |
| 01:34:28.21 | Rob Eiler | Thank you. No biggie. |
| 01:34:29.74 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 01:34:29.76 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:34:29.78 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:34:31.35 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:34:32.39 | Unknown | All right. going on that for a second is important. Obviously, |
| 01:34:35.77 | Doug Lloyd | Mm-hmm. |
| 01:34:39.09 | Unknown | tourism-based business, which is a low pay scale business, is not going to make it possible to live in Sausalito for most people who work at a tourism-based business, which is generally retail or service restaurant-based. It's not going to get you to the income level that would make it very challenging to live in Sausalito. But you had a big chunk of the professional base And that really is like 3,000 out of the 5,500 or something like that. |
| 01:35:02.40 | Unknown | I'm not. |
| 01:35:02.60 | Unknown | to be able to do that. |
| 01:35:02.65 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:35:04.14 | Unknown | I mean, that's a function of what professional businesses are here, because it's not that broad an economy to either you're an advertising person or you're not. It's not like, you know, and that, |
| 01:35:13.55 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 01:35:15.78 | Unknown | if you have, you're not going to change your job type to live in Sausalito, by and large. I think in this, people are willing to commute longer distances to keep their home life what it is. So that's, is there, I think where Mike's going, is there something, does that, |
| 01:35:28.62 | Unknown | Mm-hmm. |
| 01:35:34.09 | Unknown | I would assume the multiplier effect of living and working in the same community is very high, because you're there all the time. |
| 01:35:40.15 | Rob Eiler | You don't lose the leakage, exactly. Yes. |
| 01:35:42.24 | Unknown | But as far as your ability to impact that in kind of a very fluid in a Bay Area job market in terms of having a multiplicity of being able to commute to a very different type of business within a certain radius. Is that very hard to impact that behavior to live and work in the same community? Thank you. |
| 01:36:04.97 | Rob Eiler | My opinion is that Sausalito has – you're not going to have a surge suddenly of people working and living in Sausalito vis-a-vis the current numbers. What you can do – once again, I said this about 15 minutes ago – is having a plan that You have complementary businesses that are trying to reduce as much of the leakage that's naturally going to happen because of those characteristics through that planning cycle. What are we losing? Why are we losing it? Can we develop firms that will capture some of that? And then you get a larger bang for buck. |
| 01:36:36.43 | Unknown | Okay, any other questions? Thank you, Dr. Allard. |
| 01:36:39.80 | Rob Eiler | Thanks folks |
| 01:36:41.72 | Unknown | So at this point, we'll open up public comment. Anyone care to address the council on this matter? Peter Van Meter. |
| 01:36:53.18 | Unknown | Peter Van Meter, Cloud View Circle, a member of the BAC involved in this process from the beginning. Uh, You're really facing a decision point, I think, with this data that you have. At last we have the material, the metrics, to really develop an economic plan for the city of Sausalito. Your finance director has addressed the business advisory committee It has made it clear that your Coming to an inflection point, regarding the economic sustainability of this town. You've done very well in the last few years. financial stability of many towns in the county in California, but that situation may change. You have underutilized resources here, particularly in the MarinShip area. We now have the... technical information, and this is exceedingly Wonderful data, in my opinion. How you develop a plan to target those businesses. which in fact, can bring the economic stability to the town, both in terms of revenue to businesses, revenue to residents, revenue to employees that come into the town, into the city coffers through tax revenues to create a sound economic base develop a program that promotes bringing those kind of enterprises to town. You're gonna be doing this in the most low impact, economically sensitive way, Cheryl, in her presentation, used the term bang for the buck. It's really what we're talking about here. And you can't just go along and do nothing. You've got to adopt some policies. You've got to be proactive. You can't just say, no, we wanna turn the town into a museum of what it was in a historic past. No, you have to be proactive. The word development is not a dirty word when you're talking about economic sustainability of the city of Sausalito, which results in the quality of life for the residents. So as you come up, if the action plan that Cheryl recommended in her presentation. about your priority programs for the next year, All these things come together. to really take a proactive stance on the economic future of this town. And now you have the data and the metrics and the formulas and the arithmetic, if you will, to help you make that happen. I hope you do that. Thank you. |
| 01:39:11.61 | Unknown | Thank you, Peter. But anyone else care to address the council on this matter? Chris. |
| 01:39:18.48 | Chris Gallagher | Thank you. |
| 01:39:23.62 | Chris Gallagher | Gallagher, and you know I was the chair of the Wham Report. I'm not an official member of the BAC, but Given the experience I had with the WAM committee, I stayed active on the BAC going to those meetings just to be a participant in this process. And once again, you have a study that gives you a lot of good information. and nothing has been done with the WAM report. And I hope this doesn't become the bookend of the WAM report because a lot of the information that is stated in the WAM report is once again validated with this. I usually come in May when you're doing your priority calendar, and I'm hoping that, you know, you start to consider putting that marinship-specific plan much, much higher. I mean, I can't say it enough. and it really needs to be done. and to Councilmember Ford's and Pfeiffer's questions to Rob. All those questions are answered in the WAM report. So about infrastructure, about economics, all of that was answered. So I would advise you to go back and review that. because we have a tendency in this town to just keep repeating and repeating and making reports, and then you assign another committee to do the same report again. So let's not keep repeating the same thing. Um, You know, we just finished 21 months of construction in the Bay model. And on any given day, I probably had 30 contractors down there that Ate lunch here, ate dinner here. And the main contractor has even moved here and has a residence here. So if we're not supporting the economy through the Bay Model, I don't know what is. But for 21 months, we certainly supported the restaurants in this town through all those contractors. So I really, really can't heavily tell you enough to support this and really take a close eye on that. So. Thank you, Chris. |
| 01:41:32.61 | Unknown | Let me say before Adam speaks here that Adam has done a lot of very intensive and excellent background work in putting this thing together, so thank you, Adam. |
| 01:41:41.57 | Adam Kravatsky | Thank you. Good evening everyone. Adam Krivacci, 840 Olimo Street. I would like to start where Peter finished. Peter called your attention to opportunities for making use of this information. Charlie and I, being your economic director, sometimes have breakfast and over our orange juice we speculate how we could create a position here in the community which would be assigned to not just Plug holes financially, but plan ahead. And I think This report represents sort of kicking the pants to the whole community and a great impetus Thank you. for facing that issue. We are, if we are lucky that we were so lucky so far that we had no economic crisis lately when other communities face severe crisis, we should be thankful to our fate and I think in this case, Charlie keeps raising the specter of what happens if in case you have to pay for your own fire department, et cetera, et cetera, in essence, where do you get financial survival and how do you assure the financial sustainability of the community I THINK the Council should get together with Charlie and your city manager, and talk about this. How you create a position where you provide make use of the intelligence that you have. and provide that. direction to the departments as to how to respond to these opportunities. Thank you. |
| 01:44:02.16 | Unknown | Thank you, Adam. |
| 01:44:11.36 | Joe Lemon | Hi again, everyone. Joe Lemon. It's nice to see you all again after last night. In fact, that's where I'd like to start, actually, is one of the things that was Um, excellent about last night's meeting was how vibrant everybody was involved in the process Um, how much credit the council gave to the participation of everybody who is in attendance and who's interested in the subject of the housing element. And I would just encourage you to have that same level of interest and appreciation for the people who've been involved in this process for a number of years, including people who've spoken tonight, others on the BAC who are in the room. And I'd just like to also point out that Jeremy Graves has done an excellent job in helping shepherd this committee and Charlie Francis has provided us with a lot of support. And it's worth mentioning that council members are also assigned to this committee including and Councilmember Weiner and, of course, Vice Mayor and when he was mayor also, the Vice Mayor Leone. So we're really grateful for everybody's participation and it's important to appreciate just what an important process this is and how valuable the information is as these others have spoken tonight. Even though you may not Like anything in this report, as some of the things in yesterday's meeting were controversial, I just urge you to consider it with the same level of deference that you listened to everybody in the room last night about the housing element. Thank you. |
| 01:45:43.97 | Unknown | Thank you, Joe. |
| 01:45:44.39 | Joe Lemon | Thank you. |
| 01:45:49.35 | Unknown | We didn't want to hear from you, Shrest, because we understand your business is not as important as you think it is. |
| 01:45:51.14 | Unknown | Your business is Oh, it's not? you Bye. Oh! remember that around tax time Jeff Shiraz. I'm just kidding. I know. |
| 01:46:01.72 | Unknown | I'm just kidding, just kidding. Very important. Great tenant. Great tenant. Let's give a hand. |
| 01:46:07.19 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 01:46:07.20 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 01:46:07.24 | Doug Lloyd | Yeah. |
| 01:46:09.38 | Unknown | Keep those red chugs. |
| 01:46:10.39 | Unknown | We've been on the BAC for many years, and we've seen a lot of coming and going of things of really trying to make the BAC grow and understand what to do. And we've had a great opportunity with Dr. Rob Eiler and our report here really to move us forward. For many years, we were shooting ourselves in the dark. Where do we go? We know we've got problems in town with vacancies. We didn't really know what they were, but we've really taken the effort to move ourselves forward with our short-term study, of course our long-term study now. Now let's utilize that data and make something of it. As Chris mentioned a few minutes ago, let's not put it next to the WHAM report on the bookshelf. Let's utilize this data when it's hot. Let's make something of it. I know my members on the BAC really want to work together as far as taking it, kind of do a road show as far as moving it forward. Taking this data to different community groups and seeing how we can utilize this information and grow the businesses in town. So please, I really urge you, your leadership and what you can do to, you know, take this information and let's make the town better off. Thank you. |
| 01:46:10.41 | Unknown | I'm not sure. |
| 01:47:19.46 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:47:23.14 | Unknown | Eckhart? No. Thank you. He did his job for a while ago. He did his job. That's true. Anyone else want to comment on this? Vicki? No? Okay. All right. And we'll bring it back up here. The action tonight is just to accept this report, Mr. Mayor. Yes. |
| 01:47:27.85 | Unknown | He did his job a while ago. |
| 01:47:29.89 | Doug Lloyd | THE FAMILY. |
| 01:47:30.38 | Charles Melton | Yeah. |
| 01:47:30.60 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 01:47:30.70 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:47:30.74 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:47:41.52 | Adam Politzer | Yeah. Can I add just a few words here, before you folks close, for your own discussion? Not often do I jump into this level of presentation and discussion, but I think based on some of the comments that we've heard and my involvement with the Chamber of Commerce for the past four years, working very closely with them, and the transition that we've seen with the BAC from when I started four years ago into where we are today. And first, I really do want to thank Adam Carvazzi for stepping in and taking the leadership of the BAC. and we met many months ago and talked about where the BAC was heading and talked about this report and talked about the importance of the Chamber of Commerce and the city working together at some level. And I think based on the information we received tonight from Dr. Eiler, supported by the report that's here at the back of the agenda, the summary report that the BAC put, starting on page 221 in your packet, that this is a real opportunity for us to move forward. and to Joe's comments there about looking at some of the things that are important to our community, obviously our sustainability is very, very important. And it hasn't been by luck that we've been put in this situation in terms of the economy and how we provide services to our community, to our residents, and how we work with our business community. It's been with a lot of effort, a lot of effort by members on the council. members in our community, residents volunteering their time, And as Charlie Francis repeats on several occasions, it always comes down to money at the end of the day. And to provide the services that our community expects at the Recreation Department or in the library, to make sure that we have quality staffing in our Community Development Department, to deal with the complex projects that come forward. We have to be able to compete both for talent and what we compensate the talent to attract them to come to our community. So there is really an opportunity and I think that as Dr. Eiler talked about in his presentation in his report, goes back to the original meetings that were suggested there with Supervisor McClashen. And that was to keep our eye on the ball. What makes Marin County special? And then for each of the towns in Marin County, we're all unique and we all have special characteristics that we hold dear and near to our hearts. and I think that that's important as we move forward. We're not talking about changing the landscape of our community. We're not talking about things like we saw in San Rafael with bringing in a big box store with Target. We're talking about complementing what is here so that the folks that are here can compete and remain. And we see these little moms and pops businesses go out of business because there's not enough support around them to keep them in business, enough foot traffic, enough activity to keep business 365 days open. We can't just be open during the tourist season, and we have to be sustainable throughout the entire year. So when you look at the last page, when you guys get into the second to last page, page 324 on next steps, I know that the BAC gave a lot of discussion and consideration on asking the council to really look at giving direction to them. And some of these next steps may be things that we could do sooner than later, but one of them that I think that I heard Cheryl mention earlier was agendize this again for a future meeting to review these next steps and prioritize them. And then when we get into the priority calendar process, again, just as we've done with other things, splinter them out so that they're not all coupled together and look so big that they end up getting knocked down the list. I think for the business community and the Chamber of Commerce, we've also had a lot of success with the priority calendar of getting projects actually done and getting things through. And I think everyone is now recognizing that there's a lot of value to the priority calendar process. So as we continue to go forward. in these economic challenging times, there'll be an opportunity to prioritize which one of these projects we want to go forward and take those very seriously because when I first started here, I talked about back to the basics, and this falls into that category of making sure that we support our business community here in town, that we carefully think about what type of businesses that we want to make sure are successful and sustainable so that our community doesn't change its demographics because we end up with whatever we end up with and so here is an opportunity to be strategic something that I think that we're very lucky to have someone like Charlie Francis as our finance director and I think the BAC has stayed the course and have done what I've asked them to do working under Adam's leadership and Pravazzi's leadership so there's an opportunity for us to look at how we staff that prioritize that so we may not attend every single meeting but we may be project specific and working more closely with the BAC. So I thought it was important that I shared my thoughts with you and the community and leave that for you now to have your discussion. Thank you. |
| 01:53:49.12 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. |
| 01:53:49.98 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 01:53:50.34 | Unknown | . |
| 01:53:51.01 | Unknown | So that being said, I'd like to make a comment. |
| 01:53:59.87 | Unknown | Amen. No comments? |
| 01:54:01.43 | Unknown | I'm back. |
| 01:54:02.98 | Unknown | Somebody has to speak. This is unusual. |
| 01:54:07.15 | Unknown | Did it? |
| 01:54:07.45 | Doug Lloyd | Well, I'll speak. All right. Good. |
| 01:54:08.97 | Unknown | Well, I'll speak. All right. Good. Thank you. |
| 01:54:12.48 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 01:54:12.80 | Unknown | Okay. Well, first of all, I'd like to thank Dr. Eiler for his report. I think it's an outstanding report that gives us a lot of information that can be used for our planning process, and I think |
| 01:54:12.92 | Doug Lloyd | Bye. Um, |
| 01:54:34.42 | Unknown | I wholeheartedly support city business partnership to make our businesses more vibrant and to make our businesses complimentary. I also recognize the issue of traffic in town and I'm glad you pointed that out in your report. What we have to do is we have to balance the additional traffic with the benefits. One of my objections to the wham report was the amount of development in that report it addressed much more development and what I hear from this report is what we need to do is focus on our businesses that we have right now we need to fill uh and make fill our office spaces we need to make everything more vibrant and our businesses more healthy um i would like to also see though make sure that we maintain our maritime industry and that we save our maritime history that's very important to our town and I think that keeping it that area light industrial has many many benefits one of one being traffic and I noticed an article in The paper today. It's the business journal North Bay Business Journal about San of us if that's the way you pronounce it there in the large salmon color building and And they are expanding their offices with production. It's a medical light industrial use, but they're growing right in our marinship. So I think we need to look at city and business, BAC, and the chamber need to look at what can best work for Sausalito keeping in mind the business and the residents desires because I would like to see a more vibrant business community it works for everyone Thank you. Hello? |
| 01:57:07.91 | Unknown | I'll just chime in. So I just wanted to compliment the folks who participated in this, Dr. Eiler, obviously, Adam and Eckhart, Peter, Joe, Jeff, Chris, amongst others. A, thank you for your time and effort. Thank you for working with me during my time on the BAC And as you know, it was always the most pleasant of times, butting heads and trying to shift focus from some things to other things. But I appreciate your going with me to get to this point and with Charles McLastian's help, you know, and working with Dr. Iller to put this all together. I think unlike what people are saying, I don't see this being a bookend, nor do I see the WAM report as a bookend or a bookend. a paperweight, I view them as more data that we can use to act when the time is right and to make decisions in both incremental steps as well as in bigger steps. And I think we have used data from the WAM report and other of the Madden's Fuscilia reports as part of other things in small increments. But I do see them as action-based documents, and I hope that we will take action on them in the short period of time on the things that gain both support from the business community as well as from the rest of Sausalito. So I do think this report in and of itself has come a long way in its various iterations to something that's digestible by a lot of folks, and I appreciate your hard work, Adam, and Dr. Eiler working together on that as well as the rest of the committee. It's certainly come along into a more cohesive document and one which I think we can use as a planning document. I don't view... The business community and as a business person and the residents as coming at things from 180 degrees in different points of view, I think that there are places where you're going to meet, there are places where you're not, and there are often places where in individual cases you're definitely not going to meet in terms of |
| 01:59:16.65 | Doug Lloyd | I'm sorry. |
| 01:59:29.86 | Unknown | of self-motivated sort of one very singular impacts. But I think in general it's in everyone's best interest to have a vibrant community in any dimension whether it's age, whether it's housing, whether it's the economy, and our ability to impact that on all those fronts is rather limited, but we should use the tools that are available to us, and this will be a tool. And I do view the WAM report also as a tool, and Eckhart, you and Peter's footwork putting together the leasing study as another tool that we can use going forward to sort of try our best to shape an outcome that we wish going forward. |
| 02:00:10.09 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 02:00:13.37 | Unknown | Um, I've worked with this BAC this last year. I want to thank Peter. Cheryl. |
| 02:00:24.15 | Unknown | I forgot you. I'm sorry. I forgot you. It's all right. Chris. I don't want to choose my name. I can't forget it. Jeff. |
| 02:00:26.29 | Unknown | It's all right. Chris, Jeff, Adam Kabatze, Dr. I think you've done a great job, and I hope that we don't let this sit like I kind of feel like the wham. When I spoke to you a year ago, I was hoping that we would get it off the shelf. I still look up there, and it's on the shelf. I think all of these ideas are great. The input is great. But what I keep on hearing and ringing in my ear is that If we don't address the Marinship-specific plan, This will just be an item that goes up on the shelf, and we really do have to grab ahold of that marine ship and stop. Uh... putting such negative words on it. for what we don't want to see there and really put into the reality of what belongs there and what will be the best economic direction for us to go down there. I hope that we can all work together. And let's move this marineship-specific plan on that priority list. Thank you. |
| 02:01:47.80 | Unknown | Mr. Mayor, thank you. So I also want to thank Dr. Eiler for a really great job. I want to thank the Chamber of Commerce and Peter and Cheryl, Chris, Adam, and Jeff for working so hard, your efforts on this, and Joe. And just a quick comment for Chris. I did read the WAM report cover to cover. And my question regarding WAM was specific to the very thorough job that WAM did with respect to the infrastructure and the pollutants and the toxicity and the seismic conditions and the the rising water, etc. So I thought that was really well done. In fact, we referenced when I was on the Housing Element Report when we were writing the constraints for that section. So I thought that was very good. So I would concur. There's a lot of useful information there. One thing we discussed in framing this economic study was that it would work within the current which I believe reflects a shared community vision of maritime services in the marineship. We do have value, in my view, of maintaining our light industrial base there. It's so unusual to still have that diversity in our town, that light industrial base. I believe we need to bring this back to the U.S. I think that's where jobs are. I see the Marin ships still as a working waterfront, and I'd like to see us do everything we can to nurture the maritime services. I have looked into the trends in maritime green technologies, and I'm very impressed in what I see. And I'm hopeful that the country is looking at ways that we can incentivize more of our light industrial base, including boat design. And I guess the other thing I would say is we definitely need to keep pursuing studies like this. We need to do everything we can to promote and maintain economic stability in these Thank you. need to keep pursuing studies like this. We need to do everything we can to promote and maintain economic stability in these troubling times and that's why we voted for this study and we gave the green light to go ahead and I think that There's more data I would love to see, data related to specifically the Bay Area in the Maritime Services for some comparisons. But I thought the report was very well done, and I want to thank everyone who participated in it. |
| 02:04:35.86 | Unknown | Thank you. I'll say it again. Peter, Cheryl, Joe, Chris, Jeff, Adam, Noah, Eckert, and anybody else I missed, I'm sorry. But you guys have just done a tremendous job, and I'm so proud that you put this report together and got it out here today and tonight. And you can see we spent over an hour on it already and could probably spend another hour and still enjoy what's here. But, you know, we live in a wonderful community. We have 2.8% of the population of Marin County. We're providing 5.7% of the revenues, so we're doing more than our share. We have a retail vacancy that, as Eckert and Peter found out, is lower than what anybody ever thought. We have an office vacancy, which is half of that of the rest of Marin. That is a vacancy which is lower by half than the rest of Marin. We have an industrial base that's full. If you went out looking for industrial space today in Marin or in Sausalito, you're not going to find very much space available. What we see in the marineship is vibrancy, despite the fact we've had sort of a laissez-faire, no growth policy about it. It's developed itself. And it's vibrant, and it's producing a pile of revenue and a pile of jobs. |
| 02:04:41.11 | Unknown | THE END OF |
| 02:04:41.16 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 02:04:41.17 | Unknown | Thank you. Jim. |
| 02:05:57.25 | Unknown | And I am a person that believes that we can adopt carefully crafted growth policies and make things better without ruining our way of life and changing the character of our town. Economic development with planning is really much better than economic development without planning. And if we have no economic development, our budget will begin to fail at some point and we will go downhill. We are an aging population in Sausalito. about the biggest thing that holds us up is our property tax base. but that property tax base can diminish if the people coming behind can't afford to buy the houses that we have priced so loftily. So I'm going to pull off the WAM report from my shelf. I'm going to pull and take another look at it and go through it in some great detail. I'm going to look at this report again. I loved all the comments that people made that weren't part of the survey about how they felt about stuff. I want more of that, and I want that, and I want this, and I want that, and I want to a tremendous number of what they call open answers in here, which are just filled with information that can be called and and used for good ideas. So I'm going to spend a good portion of the next few weeks looking at this again and be ready when we pull up the priority calendar. So thank you again for all who participated in this. And we're going to take a break now. |
| 02:07:22.53 | Unknown | Can I have a one minute thing? |
| 02:07:25.08 | Unknown | Good. |
| 02:07:25.99 | Unknown | But let's be realistic, and this is why we butted heads fairly often. You've come to enough of these meetings to see that this is a city under attack from within, right? And you will recognize that having a huge bite at an apple in one fell swoop is a difficult thing for this town to swallow, even for something that's cut and dry financially and service-wise as a fire merger. So I encourage you to work with the City Council in both small and well-planned steps over the coming year, because otherwise this will become fodder for a lot of misinformation that will further... make the running of this town more and more difficult. So there is a ground to move forward. There are data to use to make decisions going forward. So let's work together on this in a practical way that'll get things done. |
| 02:08:33.39 | Unknown | Mr. Mayor. Thank you. Thank you. Well, I would just like to address the fact that, well, first to thank the committee. I'm sorry, I forgot to thank the committee. I thanked Dr. Eiler, and I do appreciate the work that you have done on this, because I think making our business vibrant is what we need to do. We need to make it the best it can be. Secondly, I will say there are two different philosophies, obviously, in this town and two different visions for this town, and that's been our history for as long as I can remember. And you see that on the council. So you see those who are really pro-development and you see those who are more preservation oriented. And that's what you get. So what we need to do is take a look and see where we can come together on some of these issues. And one area I see we can come together on is certainly the vibrancy of our business community. Maybe not development, but the vibrancy. |
| 02:09:42.63 | Unknown | but the vibrancy. Thank you very much. Anybody else want to say anything? |
| 02:09:48.59 | Unknown | The risk of protracting is, again, I challenge you to look at the last six or four or two years and see a lot of pro-growth, pro-development actions being taken at the council level. Please make a list and come forward with it. that is not balanced in its approach. And there are people looking to, there's the idea of Making, continuing this town to be healthy and keep the things that make it unique. And then there's the idea of just saying no and having no solutions. That's a better characterization of where we've been in the last two years. |
| 02:10:34.15 | Unknown | This... |
| 02:10:35.67 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:10:36.48 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:10:36.53 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. I don't know. |
| 02:10:37.22 | Doug Lloyd | I would like to... |
| 02:10:38.70 | Unknown | It's good. You know, the one thing that... is bothersome about our council is the way we have people who personally attack others and I don't consider what council member Leon said as a personal attack but I will tell you this we have just given away or we're in the process of giving away 45 percent of our property taxes to Southern Marin Fire District, and property taxes are 50% of the |
| 02:11:15.31 | Unknown | Property taxes are 50% of... Excuse me, it's not on the point. The point is the discussion of this business advisory committee report. |
| 02:11:20.56 | Unknown | No. Business Advisory Committee report. Mr. Mayor, I'm responding to Vice Mayor Leung. And so we need to look at business items and make sure we're vibrant, because when we lose that amount of money, there has to be a replacement. |
| 02:11:42.80 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:11:42.81 | Unknown | Thank you. to do. |
| 02:11:44.03 | Unknown | Mr. Mayor, may I make it? |
| 02:11:45.23 | Unknown | I can. |
| 02:11:46.71 | Unknown | We just move to accept this and cut this back and forth. I'd like to make a motion that we accept the Sausalito Community in economic development study. |
| 02:11:49.85 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:11:49.90 | Unknown | in the middle. |
| 02:11:50.14 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:11:50.29 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 02:11:51.37 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 02:11:51.49 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:11:51.65 | Unknown | I'm going to make it. |
| 02:11:51.94 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:11:58.40 | Unknown | Okay? |
| 02:11:58.59 | Unknown | Okay, we have a motion and a second. Mr. Mayor? Does anybody want to talk about this item? I don't want to, this is becoming a far ranging discussion. It needs to cease and come back to the agenda item. Let's call for it. Okay, so do you have something to say about the agenda item? |
| 02:12:01.19 | Unknown | Mr. Mayor? |
| 02:12:10.02 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:12:14.40 | Unknown | Yes, Mr. Mayor, I'd like to make a comment if I may. |
| 02:12:16.34 | Unknown | Keep it on the agenda. |
| 02:12:18.93 | Unknown | Of course. So I just want to thank everyone again. I don't think this needs to I don't know. This council is united in saying thank you to everyone who worked on this. And I think that the bottom line here is that we all care about this town. |
| 02:12:31.45 | Debbie | What? |
| 02:12:40.51 | Unknown | We all... are united in furthering the best interests of Sausalito, and we all care about the Marin ship too. And so I just wanted to kind of bring things back on point here and keep things, you know, positive, because that's really what we're here for, to look at things and move things forward. And I thank Councilmember Ford for her comments because I think they're very important to, you know, to keep things in perspective. |
| 02:13:22.61 | Unknown | you |
| 02:13:22.65 | Unknown | Okay. Can we call the question? Call the vote? Thank you. |
| 02:13:28.89 | Debbie | Thank you. |
| 02:13:28.91 | Unknown | I'm sorry. |
| 02:13:28.97 | Debbie | Bye. |
| 02:13:29.04 | Unknown | Okay, and the motion is again? Yeah, he's going to ask. Remind us of the motion. Accept the report. Okay, we have a motion and a second. Call roll, Debbie. |
| 02:13:29.18 | Debbie | you Thank you. |
| 02:13:31.88 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 02:13:32.15 | Debbie | Thank you. |
| 02:13:32.33 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:13:32.45 | Debbie | Thank you. |
| 02:13:32.50 | Unknown | I'm going to ask you. |
| 02:13:32.97 | Doug Lloyd | to the motion. |
| 02:13:33.40 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:13:33.50 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 02:13:34.20 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:13:34.27 | Unknown | or |
| 02:13:34.71 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:13:34.90 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 02:13:34.95 | Unknown | Except the report. |
| 02:13:37.38 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:13:37.39 | Unknown | We have a motion and a |
| 02:13:42.00 | Unknown | Please. |
| 02:13:43.86 | Debbie | Council member Pfeiffer. |
| 02:13:46.62 | Unknown | Uh, yes. |
| 02:13:48.46 | Debbie | Council Member Ford? |
| 02:13:49.44 | Unknown | you |
| 02:13:49.51 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:13:49.54 | Unknown | . |
| 02:13:49.60 | Unknown | . |
| 02:13:49.66 | Unknown | Yes. |
| 02:13:50.81 | Debbie | Councilmember Weiner. |
| 02:13:51.96 | Unknown | Yes. |
| 02:13:53.22 | Debbie | Vice ma'am, ma'am. |
| 02:13:54.30 | Unknown | Yes. |
| 02:13:55.45 | Debbie | And Mayor Kelly. |
| 02:13:56.53 | Unknown | Yes. And on that note, we're going to take a five-minute break. I'll be right back. |
| 02:14:04.77 | Unknown | Mr. Mayor, members of the City Council. Tonight's agenda item, next agenda item is the presentation, the receipt and the filing of the actuarial evaluation of other post-employment benefits. And I put on the screen other than pensions, post-employment benefits. With me tonight is Mr. Doug Tokarud. Doug Tokarud is from Nicolay Consulting and we'll be putting on a joint presentation and I'll ask the City Council that we'll go through the presentation and then there'll be questions both for the actuary and for myself. Before we go into the presentation, I just want to reaffirm what we talked about at our last city council meeting, that part of strategic financial planning is a continuum of a cycle that starts at the end of our fiscal year is June 30, the beginning of our fiscal year is July 1. We do annual financial reports, budget reviews, and we've been preparing a labor strategy, and then we go through the strategic planning, the biennial budget formation, the priority calendar, and it's time for the audit again. And I talked to you at the last City Council meeting and said that we had a plan of bringing a labor strategy forward to the City Council. I just wanted to briefly share a Gantt chart of that plan that starts with studying all the various aspects of labor. We are required every three years to do an OPEB study, and this is the dot over here is showing that tonight is the presentation of the final OPEB report. We're in about 95% finished with the classification, and about 80% finished with the compensation study. We're on target to bring that to the City Council at the first meeting in March. We've done our CalPERS pension analysis. We're in the process of analyzing health benefits, preparing preliminary budget estimates, and at your next City Council meeting there will be some talk about negotiations with the City Council with an expert in that area. So I wanted to give the City Council assurance today that this is just one part and a many part strategy to bring a comprehensive labor strategy to the City Council in conjunction with the financial planning for the city budget. First of all, we have a bunch of accounting and actuarial acronyms that are used throughout the report that was included in your agenda package. And for the public's sake, I have copies of the report and copies of this power presentation up here. Please feel free to take one of each. I'm not going to go through all those acronyms, but if I slip and say an acronym during the presentation and you want me to expand on what it is, I'll be happy to do that. And before we begin on what the actual evaluation is valuating, let's talk about what our post-retirement benefits are, post-employment benefits are other than pensions. First of all, we're in a medical plan that is for our police group, our SEIU group and SEIU, which is part of CalPERS healthcare program. So it's public employee medical care program, it's called PEMCA. And every employee group except fires in that, and fires in the Marin County Medical Plan. And why that matters is because when we, and that's all part of our cafeteria plan benefit package. And it's important because when we signed that contract back in 2002 to go into the PEMCA plan, we had to agree to certain things. And one of those is that the CalPERS minimum for the employer contribution is automatically offered to people who retire at the minimum retirement age from CalPERS is 50, and they have at least five years of service. So So for example, Dana Whitson did not work for the city for 20 years, but she did retire when she left employment with the city and she had more than five years of service within CalPERS and this was her last employment date. So, last, place of employment. So because of our contract with CalPERS, we are are required to pay the CalPERS minimum for that individual. And right now that CalPERS minimum is $112 a month for fiscal year 2012. It escalates by the medical CPI in California, it calculates every year. |
| 02:18:45.19 | Matt Bouchard | Yeah. |
| 02:18:50.73 | Unknown | if, and I'll continue using Dana Whitson as an example. If Dana Whitson went back into CalPERS employment anywhere, then she would be forever removed from our employment base and we would not have to pay those medical premiums. But our real post-employment |
| 02:19:07.40 | Doug Lloyd | of |
| 02:19:07.81 | Matt Bouchard | Thank you. |
| 02:19:07.94 | Doug Lloyd | Mm-hmm. |
| 02:19:12.40 | Unknown | health benefit is retiring at age greater than 50 for public safety and greater than 55 for non-public safety and they have to have 20 years and that 20 years of service has to be with Sausalito and they have to retire. So if a person is 55 and they have 20 years of service and they quit and go to work for another CalPERS agency then they would not qualify for a city of Sausalito pension benefit. And then the next is there's dental. There's only nine employees that receive dental insurance. At the date of this valuation, eight were retired and one was nearly retired. I say nearly retired because on July 22nd, Mary Richardson retired and she was the last of the employees who will receive dental care as part of a retirement package. Her spouse coverage, we allowed our spouse, our retirees, spouses to be covered, but the retiree pays the medical insurance premium unless the retiree dies. If the retiree dies, the surviving spouse, if the surviving spouse wants to continue with healthcare through the CalPERS system, then the employer would pay the CalPERS minimum, currently the $112. So with that, oh, and I have to say that there's one employee where the spouse is not, the retiree doesn't pay, the city pays, and that was for a contract amendment that the city entered into with that one employee. So all of those go into factoring then in the assumptions that the actuary makes to come up with the accrued actuarial liability on July 1st of 2011. The handout that I gave you said January 1st of 2008. That was an error. I wasn't able to correct it in time for the printing of those documents, but I did correct it here. And it's important to note that this is a point in time evaluation. Just like a balance sheet is a point in time evaluation of your financial condition. The point in time being on July 22nd when Mary Richardson retired, that was outside, It was an event that occurred that wasn't calculated within the evaluation, so that would change it. We... replaced Mary Richardson with a younger employee. And the only reason I mention that is because actuarially for calculation of accrued liabilities, a younger employee has less of a cost than an older employee would. So these are point-in-time calculations. And I wanted to point out the second thing about point-in-time. They also have projections, five-year projections. And things significantly change. When we did the 2008 evaluation, we only had 74 employees in our census, and we had 29 retirees. When we did our July 1st, we have 82 employees in the evaluation, and we have 37 retirees. They all affect, and then they take into account, actuaries take into account what they think at this point in time medical costs will escalate for the next few years. Well medical costs did not increase as high as the assumptions were in the 2008 valuation. So you can see that the the growth from the actuarial liability in 2008 was projected to be $7.4 million, but actually on July 1st of 2011, the liability was calculated at $6.6 million. And I think that's why GASB, which governs preparing actuarial reports, requires that we have one every three years so that we can adjust back to actual and get close to what that actuarial reports requires that we have one every three years so that we can adjust back to actual and get close to what that actuarial liability is at that point in time. So to go into a little bit more detail, maybe about 10 minutes, I've asked Doug to walk you through these present value calculations of the OPEB and the next slide as well. |
| 02:23:31.60 | Unknown | Thanks, Charlie. First, I was here about three years ago and I thought I recognized some faces in the room. I don't know if any of you remember me, but that was back when I was working with Louise Ho, Charlie's predecessor. Basically, I am the actuary for this plan. |
| 02:23:44.12 | Jeremy Graves | Thank you. |
| 02:23:44.74 | Matt Bouchard | Thank you. |
| 02:23:53.18 | Unknown | and am what's called a fellow of the Society of Actuaries. I've been doing this for about 30 years. It must be interesting, and I would not have stayed in it, I guess. I like to think that. |
| 02:23:58.26 | Doug Lloyd | I'm sorry. Thank you. Thank you. |
| 02:24:03.51 | Matt Bouchard | That was great. |
| 02:24:03.96 | Jeremy Graves | THE LAST WEEK. |
| 02:24:04.22 | Matt Bouchard | to think that. |
| 02:24:05.36 | Unknown | Uh... What this slide is showing is the results of our calculations, and basically the way we do calculations |
| 02:24:14.85 | Jeremy Graves | Thank you. |
| 02:24:14.98 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:24:15.42 | Jeremy Graves | Oh, okay, thanks. |
| 02:24:17.45 | Unknown | Uh... We actually, I think it might be helpful for me to do like a use up two of my ten minutes just to say basically how we do these calculations. Basically, these, we were asked to calculate for each of the different groups shown up there what the actuarial results were of our calculations. But basically, all our calculations, these numbers are just the sum. We calculate every individual. in the plan and just add up the results for each of the groups. Basically what we do for a person is try to estimate how much medical costs, medical premiums are gonna be when that person retires. and we try to project those to the end of the person's life expectancy, basically, And we also calculate the probabilities that these people are going to stay around long enough to get any benefits, and a lot of people won't, especially a lot of your younger people. So we basically look at the probabilities and the amounts people will get if they stay long enough and how long they'll get those benefits typically after they retire. And then we just, I just went through this discussion with one of my actuarial students a few days ago. He was trying to figure out how to calculate the whole thing in one giant thing and he just got completely confused. And then I said, just think about doing it for one person. Because if you do it for one person, you can just add the results up. But this shows group by group, what the what the total present values were. What this basically represents is the 6.6 million up here on the far right. That's what we call, we call it different things, but we call it basically the past service liability, at least in the older days. And what that really represents is the total value of future benefits we're expecting to be paid to your current population. How much of that is attributable to their prior service? How much of that have they already earned, basically? And that's what that 6.6 million is. It's not a real liability in any kind of a legal sense. It's just the word liability kind of crept into the jargon, the actual jargon of the years. And that basically, another way to look at that $6.6 million is, if you had a fund now, if you had a trust, and had that much money in it, you would be what we consider fully funded. You've got enough assets in the trust to cover what people have already earned. The current retirees and the current employees. But of course you don't have a fund. You don't have a trust, and so that becomes what's called an unfunded actuarial true liability. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. I mean probably at least 60 to 70% of our clients do not fund ahead of time. They either don't have the money or they have other more important things to do with the money. |
| 02:27:16.64 | Unknown | I think you just keep the mic with it. Oh. Keep the mic with it. You can take it out. Oh, cool. |
| 02:27:18.38 | Unknown | Thank you. Oh, cool, okay. I might get too loud. |
| 02:27:23.85 | Unknown | Okay. |
| 02:27:24.10 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 02:27:24.49 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 02:27:24.61 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:27:25.10 | Unknown | You're on TV. Male Speaker 1 of 2,0-0. |
| 02:27:30.36 | Unknown | Let me know if anybody can't hear. So basically, when GASB 45 came into being for you folks three or four, about three years ago, it said, okay, you're gonna get an actuary, they're gonna calculate this unfunded, or an actuarial accrued liability. but you have 30 years to pay that off. You don't have to suddenly Come on. with a lot of money right now. And maybe this is a good point to say, I think I said this three years ago, is that there was nothing in the GASB 45 rules that say you have to do any funding. All GASB 45 says is If you don't fund this amount each year, that's fine. but you have to accrue it as a liability on your financial statements, as a liability that will build up. The cost that you are funding is just the current benefits that your current retirees are getting. Uh, So that's one piece. The other piece of the calculation is how much how much liability, and I say liability again in a broad sense, it's not a legal liability or anything like that. but how much is attributable to the current year, one year of service. What we just talked about was all the prior years of service. And the other piece is called the normal cost. which is that $390,000 number. And so your 30-year amortization of the past service liability plus the normal cost for the current year, that's your total cost. And that, again, if you don't fund it, that's fine, but you have to accrue. that amount. as an unfunded liability, basically on your balance sheet. Uh... And I think that's probably enough to say for this slide, luckily we don't have too many other ones, but are there any questions on this? a little bit tricky stuff although I'm sure that those of you that were here three years ago know all this already. Anyway, any questions right at this point? |
| 02:29:44.55 | Unknown | Oh, okay, great, all right. What this is, and not all of us actuaries do this, but We always include in our reports a five-year projection of what we think these numbers are going to look like in the future. And we do that partly because we want people to understand how this liability builds up on the balance sheet over time. without any funding into a trust. And you can see here, that as of Just be sure I We need to check one thing. |
| 02:30:27.43 | Unknown | Well, basically, as of As of today, have $1.4 million that you need to be showing on your balance sheet. you as a liability. And in this projection, we're assuming you will continue to just pay out the benefits. You won't do any additional funding into a trust, although you always have that alternative. And at any point in time, we have a fair number of clients that are still looking at whether they're going to, fund additional amounts. The sort of negative thing about this is when you get out four more years, instead of $1.4 million on your balance sheet. We're projecting you're going to have to $4 million, $3.8 million. on your balance sheet. concerns people in some of these meetings that I do. This gives them thinking about funding. But again, it's all a matter of priorities. I have quite a few clients that don't have any money. Even if they wanted to put money in, there's just no place they can really get it, especially some of my big clients. But others, it's just a matter of priorities. this doesn't scare them that much. They've got bigger fish going on. But all this What this slide is doing really is just showing the calculation that we talked about for one year a few minutes ago and just doing that same calculation for four more years out into the future. This has been a pretty good tool we found for budgeting and forecasting but also just to show what's likely to happen. What are you looking at if you fund versus you don't fund? |
| 02:32:10.70 | Unknown | Charlie, did you have any other comments on this slide? |
| 02:32:16.49 | Unknown | Sure. |
| 02:32:16.71 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:32:16.75 | Unknown | ask questions now or wait until you... |
| 02:32:16.88 | Unknown | Thank you. hour. We'll come back to him. |
| 02:32:19.02 | Unknown | That's what it's like. No, we'll come back to him. Okay. you I just want everyone to point out right here. this |
| 02:32:36.52 | Unknown | $1.4 million that Doug mentioned. And we'll go to the next slide. Here it is. This is an excerpt of that column from that previous slide. And you can trace that directly into our financial statements right here. So you can see on June 30, 2011, we did accrue the $1.4 million liability. Now what's important to point out on here, I have this. is that the... Net assets worth $40 million. So let's just take a look at one more slide. If we accrued the whole unfunded actuarial liability, which we are not required to do, we would still have $35 million in net assets. In other words, the city of Sausalito has sufficient net assets to fully cover the unfunded actuarial accrued liability. There's a couple of other points that I'd like to make about our UAAL. In 2008, the city council made the decision to not fund irrevocable trust for its OPEB obligation. And it was the right decision because no matter how much money you put in there, you would have lost 30% of it in 2009. due to the recession. So it was the right decision to make at that time. There's a couple of other reasons It continues to be the right decision today to continue to pay as you go. Well, number one is it doesn't have a large financial sheet impact Number two is we do have money set aside. As I mentioned in the staff report, we have put $1 million aside to meet this $1.4 million obligation. This June 30, 2011 was the first time that the $1 million was less than the accrued liability. The reason we have to report the total liability is because that $1 million is not in an irrevocable trust. Why is that a good thing? Because the City Council then has flexibility to meet any fiscal emergencies that it has, but it still has the money set aside for the most part to meet that obligation. In fact, we have assets available to meet the total obligation. The third thing is you never really ever want to fully fund your total unfunded liability. Because once it's put into the trust, it can't come out until everybody that was actuarially calculated in that dies. and goes out of the retirement plan. So if you're fully funded, and if one of two events occur, like we're facing two events now, then that money would be frozen in that irrevocable trust for a long, long time. And those two events are a large part of your employee base goes away, like fire annexation. Or more importantly, if you come back to this whole concept of developing a new labor strategy and developing a second tier of employees. And that second tier of employees does not share the same. that the current employees have now. So, and if you're not going to And if that occurred, then these liabilities are gonna significantly decrease. If fire annexation occurs, about half or even more of the fire actuarial evaluation will go away. If we introduce a second tier of employees and if we accelerate the movement from tier one to tier two employees with reduced retiree benefits, all of the accrued actuarial liabilities here will significantly decrease as well. So right now, I think the city council made the right policy decision in 2008. We're going to continue as staff to recommend that we continue as a pay as you go city until we work our way through fire annexation and revise labor strategy for 2012-14. And then we can look at what will be our real OPEV obligation and what do we feel comfortable in funding on it and we can budget accordingly. Thank you. So, uh, With that as a summary, let me just say that all of our GASB 45 requirements We're required to do this every three years and we have the correct accounting treatment. You can rely on the correct accounting treatment because your auditors said that. The financial statements present fairly the financial condition of the city of Sausalito. Our 2011 net OPEB obligation is less than was projected in 2008. Subsequent events will likely reduce our net obligation further. And we have sufficient net assets and we have dollar assets to cover net OPEB and sufficient net assets to cover our entire unfunded actuarial accrued liability. And I think finally it's just a statement that the financial planning that's been done by this city council and the finance committee is manifesting results in here. So with that, we'll stand ready to answer any questions for either Doug or for me. And then as you work your way through the rest of the agenda item, we're asking for a motion to receive and file the second actuarial evaluation of OPEP. |
| 02:38:23.07 | Unknown | Any questions? Thank you. |
| 02:38:25.33 | Unknown | Thank you. The Pressure Mannington |
| 02:38:28.27 | Unknown | You did. You were perfect. You know, actuaries and accountants share the same joke, is that when I was going to school, I always wanted to be an actuary, but I didn't have the personality. And when Doug was going to school, he was saying the same thing about, he wanted to be an accountant, but didn't have the personality. We hadn't met before tonight. we had talked extensively on the telephone. And so I said, well, how am I going to recognize you? And he goes, I look like an actuarian. And I said, well, I look like an accountant. And you saw us find each other right away. |
| 02:38:31.03 | Doug Lloyd | Actuaries and accountants share the same joke as that. |
| 02:38:45.24 | Doug Lloyd | I can never be found if you have any credit. |
| 02:38:49.39 | Unknown | I'm sorry. |
| 02:38:49.60 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 02:38:49.80 | Unknown | to be in the county. |
| 02:38:51.28 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 02:39:02.64 | Doug Lloyd | Son. you I immediately read it. Right. |
| 02:39:06.49 | Unknown | . |
| 02:39:06.91 | Doug Lloyd | Yeah. |
| 02:39:06.93 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:39:07.57 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 02:39:08.40 | Unknown | You guys are too funny. We're going to go on the road. |
| 02:39:09.37 | Doug Lloyd | Yeah. |
| 02:39:09.97 | Unknown | We're going to go on the road as a comedy team. |
| 02:39:13.20 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 02:39:13.85 | Unknown | Okay, any questions? |
| 02:39:14.74 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:39:14.88 | Unknown | I have one question. Charlie, if you can flip back to the graph of the two studies, the bar graph you had there. Oop, come on there. |
| 02:39:16.02 | Unknown | I love this. |
| 02:39:23.36 | Unknown | That's actually a good one to ask a question. The bar graph on the pie chart. The bar graph. Oh, there it goes. |
| 02:39:27.35 | Unknown | The bar graph on the pipe chart. The bar graph. Oh, there it goes. Yeah. So just to understand the main drivers of each one of these, what do you think were the drivers that did materialize that lowered the growth in obligations from the original study? |
| 02:39:31.14 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:39:44.22 | Jeff Dibbell | Thank you. |
| 02:39:44.80 | Unknown | And then the second one would be Um, I can sort of imply a growth rate by eyeballing it. but what's driving the growth rate? Is it people reaching retirement age or an escalation in in the cost of delivering those services in the outline. But let's start with the first one. What happened back? |
| 02:40:02.78 | Unknown | Right. Thank you. Thank you. |
| 02:40:03.86 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:40:03.97 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 02:40:03.98 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:40:04.05 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:40:04.07 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:40:04.12 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 02:40:04.13 | Unknown | Bye. |
| 02:40:04.28 | Unknown | thing that happened that caused the drop in the bars from What we projected in 2008 versus what we're getting now is that CalPERS premiums, premium rates did not go up. |
| 02:40:16.99 | Doug Lloyd | Mm-hmm. |
| 02:40:18.36 | Unknown | nearly as fast as we predicted. |
| 02:40:20.67 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 02:40:21.21 | Unknown | And that wasn't actually, CalPERS has two different sets of premiums. One is for people under age 65 that are retired, and the others for people that are in Medicare meaning people that are over 65, the premiums are much lower. But the... premiums post 65 still carry more weight because they're going to be paid over the rest of the person's life expectancy, like 20 years. Whereas a pre-'65 premium, maybe only four or five years, depending on how much before age 65. But basically, the post-age 65 premiums went up virtually not at all. in three years, and with our trend rate assumptions, which is what we're assuming medical is gonna go up by, were more like 25%. Now the pre-65 premiums did go up about as we predicted. But again, they're only like about one-fourth as much late as the post 65. We don't know what's gonna happen in the future. We're just kind of projecting from where we are right now. |
| 02:41:18.91 | Matt Bouchard | what is that? |
| 02:41:22.30 | Unknown | generally when we do these calculations, but that's The main reason, there were a bunch of other things too that went up and down things. But that was by far the biggest single item. And the second question, what is driving the continued increases of these VARs? Yeah, it's... It's mainly the actuarial accrued liability by definition. This is true for pension plans or almost any kind of retirement plans. It goes up for two reasons and it goes down for one reason. the reasons it goes up, is because medical costs are going up, and so that drives the numbers higher. these numbers tend to go up faster than a pension plan. If you saw your pension plan there, it wouldn't be going up quite that fast. but also, you're basically, it's kind of like a mortgage. If you suspended your payments to a mortgage, They're going to keep adding interest onto that mortgage. This kind of a liability is somewhat analogous to a mortgage. So inherently, it's going to go up some, especially if you're not funding. Thank you. But the thing that makes it go down is your benefit payouts. but your benefit payouts aren't enough to cover the whole GASB 45 costs. So, |
| 02:42:44.43 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 02:42:45.73 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:42:45.85 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:42:45.90 | Unknown | THE END OF |
| 02:42:45.97 | Unknown | Definitely. |
| 02:42:46.18 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:42:46.28 | Unknown | Those are the main things. |
| 02:42:47.53 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 02:42:47.92 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:42:48.02 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:42:48.06 | Unknown | And in general, what is the assumed cost over the next five years? Obviously, it's tea leaf reading to a certain extent. It's a tough thing to forecast, but for the medical cost escalation, what in your study is the...what are you folks using as that guidepost for the increase in delivering these costs? |
| 02:42:48.31 | Unknown | . |
| 02:43:05.52 | Unknown | Well, a good part of it is just what we're assuming about future medical costs going forward. And that's the main thing that's driving these costs up. And we're assuming like 6% a year. 6%, okay. Yeah, yeah. |
| 02:43:06.47 | Unknown | Who else? |
| 02:43:15.70 | Matt Bouchard | We're assuming like |
| 02:43:17.20 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:43:17.33 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 02:43:17.62 | Unknown | set. |
| 02:43:18.06 | Matt Bouchard | Yeah. |
| 02:43:20.74 | Unknown | Any other questions at this point? |
| 02:43:23.04 | Unknown | Mr. Mayor. Yes. |
| 02:43:25.82 | Unknown | Right, right. |
| 02:43:27.34 | Unknown | Vice Mayor Leon on page 10 of the OPEB report is the table 4-3 where he uses the trend rate assumptions for the annual health care costs in the future. You can see 7.6, 7.3 and it varies down 5.5 probably averaging 6 for the lifetime. |
| 02:43:49.77 | Unknown | Yeah, six over the next 10 years or so. We actually have a little higher rate, and we have it eventually getting down to the lower rate. |
| 02:43:50.12 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 02:43:50.41 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:43:57.40 | Unknown | Are you setting those rates, are you picking them up from CalPERS, or where are you getting them? |
| 02:44:01.60 | Unknown | getting the, |
| 02:44:02.24 | Unknown | your assumption of your rates of increase. |
| 02:44:06.04 | Unknown | No, we make our own assumptions. We just got an opportunity to bid on another case. They must have twisted the arms of their actuary because they're using trend rate assumptions that we think are too optimistic. But on the other hand, if they can get somebody to sign off on it, I guess it's okay. If we took over, we'd have to say, sorry, we think your cost is 20% higher. So we declined the case. |
| 02:44:24.16 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 02:44:31.84 | Doug Lloyd | Right. |
| 02:44:34.37 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:44:34.39 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 02:44:34.50 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 02:44:37.10 | Unknown | Yes, I have a question about future years. Yeah. Say 10 years out, what do you see? Do you have those figures as to what our liability would be? |
| 02:44:43.70 | Doug Lloyd | out. |
| 02:44:51.57 | Unknown | We can easily get them. We don't actually, we generally only show like five years in our reports, but we do get that request from time to time to do a longer, what does this thing look like? |
| 02:45:01.93 | Unknown | Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. You get that request. Because I think that's important to give us just more of a feel for how this is growing and what it might look like as we move down the road. |
| 02:45:01.96 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:45:02.06 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 02:45:02.09 | Unknown | That's right. |
| 02:45:02.85 | Doug Lloyd | Yeah. |
| 02:45:03.14 | Unknown | Yeah, yes. |
| 02:45:13.66 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:45:13.67 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 02:45:13.69 | Unknown | Thank you. THE END OF THE END OF THE Thank you. So I would like to request that. |
| 02:45:17.11 | Unknown | Okay, that's not a very hard thing to get. How far out do you want to see it? |
| 02:45:20.76 | Unknown | Okay. Like 10 years. |
| 02:45:24.20 | Unknown | Just another five? Yeah, another five. Yes, that'd be great. That's pretty easy to do. |
| 02:45:25.57 | Unknown | Yeah, another five. Yes, that would be great. Okay. |
| 02:45:29.47 | Unknown | Thank you. We'll do it. Is that okay? You gonna pay me? Yeah, I'll pay you. Okay. I know he will. |
| 02:45:31.10 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:45:31.22 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:45:31.24 | Unknown | Okay. |
| 02:45:31.48 | Unknown | Thank you. I know. |
| 02:45:35.46 | Unknown | Yeah, I was going to ask the question. Of course. The farther you go out, the less you can count on the pension. That's exactly right. |
| 02:45:35.69 | Unknown | I know I know. Thank you. |
| 02:45:37.06 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:45:37.11 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:45:37.13 | Unknown | It's... |
| 02:45:37.38 | Unknown | and then, Thank you. |
| 02:45:38.02 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:45:38.07 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 02:45:40.00 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:45:40.11 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:45:40.13 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:45:40.37 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:45:40.50 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:45:40.54 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:45:40.55 | Unknown | See you next time. |
| 02:45:40.60 | Unknown | See you. |
| 02:45:45.35 | Unknown | That's exactly right. True. That's exactly right. |
| 02:45:46.36 | Unknown | True. Just give us a baseline, that's all. |
| 02:45:51.32 | Unknown | Okay, yeah, you know, it's still worth looking at because it's gonna be a much bigger number. |
| 02:45:56.89 | Unknown | Yeah, I'm sure it is. |
| 02:45:58.39 | Unknown | I'm not even going to hazard a yes right now, but it's even if we're off. It won't be as accurate, but you'll see, you'll get a magnitude It just goes way up. Yeah. |
| 02:46:09.97 | Unknown | Okay. Thank you. Any other questions? |
| 02:46:12.60 | Unknown | No problem. |
| 02:46:14.64 | Unknown | Seeing none, thank you very much. |
| 02:46:16.24 | Unknown | THE END OF THE |
| 02:46:16.45 | Unknown | Bye. |
| 02:46:16.48 | Unknown | Thank you. Thanks for having me again. And I hope I see some of you or most of you in three years. I'm sorry. |
| 02:46:22.03 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:46:22.69 | Unknown | you |
| 02:46:23.21 | Unknown | I hope we're still alive. We can be actually alive at that point. |
| 02:46:23.92 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 02:46:24.70 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. |
| 02:46:25.76 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 02:46:26.64 | Unknown | where we were. |
| 02:46:27.52 | Unknown | I don't know. All right, I'm going to open it to public comment. Would anyone care to address the council on the OPEB? item. Seeing none, we'll bring it back up here. Anybody feel a need to... or can we move straight to a motion? |
| 02:46:46.91 | Unknown | I'll make the motion to receive and file a second actuarial evaluation of other post-employment benefits. |
| 02:46:54.65 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:46:54.75 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 02:46:55.02 | Debbie | a second. |
| 02:46:56.41 | Unknown | All right, any comments? All in favor? |
| 02:47:00.42 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:47:00.47 | Unknown | Aye. Anybody opposed? Seeing none. |
| 02:47:00.73 | Unknown | THE FAMILY. |
| 02:47:00.90 | Unknown | Hi. |
| 02:47:01.52 | Debbie | Thank you. |
| 02:47:01.55 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:47:04.76 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:47:05.28 | Unknown | All right, thank you very much. |
| 02:47:06.38 | Unknown | Thank you. Thanks very much. Appreciate your commentary. See you in three years. |
| 02:47:11.80 | Unknown | All right. |
| 02:47:12.18 | Doug Lloyd | . Thank you. All right. Bye-bye. |
| 02:47:17.05 | Unknown | All right, now we move to item F, which is a approved supplemental appropriation for an authorized city manager to approve construction change orders for bulkhead replacement project. Jonathan Goldman takes the lead. |
| 02:47:33.57 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Vice Mayor, members of the council, staff, and members of the community. I am delighted to be here this evening to discuss this and to have had the opportunity to not only listen to the earlier parts of the meeting, but also |
| 02:47:44.32 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 02:47:55.66 | Jonathon Goldman | generate like 40 more pages of paper in my office. So my time thus far anyway has been very productive. While we're waiting for the PowerPoint presentation to come up, I want to introduce representatives of the city's partners on this project, Jim and Mike Madden here in the audience this evening. |
| 02:47:59.33 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 02:48:18.00 | Jonathon Goldman | This, I did not make copies and didn't complete this PowerPoint until about 5 o'clock this evening. So I haven't made copies and haven't distributed it. If anyone is interested in getting copies, please let me know. I'll be happy to make it available either electronically or on paper. The introduction here is photographic, really, just to kind of remind members of the council and the community how we, in some way, has got to what is really kind of the big finish in a really significant project here. Council may recall some of these graphics from prior presentations. This particular photograph taken in July of 1936 showing the ferry docks here, the ferry as well as the rail, and the future location of the area that is now a brand new bulkhead. 1946 aerial photograph. We have some photographs later on in the presentation where this part of the site is of special interest. I couldn't really, looking back in 1946, trying to figure out if we could tell where the fuel tanks and what we think was the Santa Barbara were visible. I wasn't able to, but it's a neat photograph anyway. 1960 when some of the timber pile bulkhead that our project is almost, well, is completely done replacing were being installed. Jim and Mike's father was intimately involved. For all I know, Jim and Mike were involved in some of this work. I know from hanging out with them a little bit over the last few months that they're probably both capable of operating the pile driving equipment and replacing a wooden piling wall themselves. Here are just a couple of brief before photographs that you may also recall from either prior presentations or from your walks along the boardwalk. A couple of photographs, kind of poor photographs, but at least conveying some of the conditions that existed with the wood pilings that really warranted the project that we've undertaken. Some photographs of the project under construction. This crane, I don't remember the woman's name, but at the time, Mayor Weiner was a good connection for her. She frequently complained about the fact that at the end of the workday, the boom of the crane was left vertical, and it interfered with her view. So with the permission of the superintendent for Reyes Construction, |
| 02:50:30.15 | Matt Bouchard | And... |
| 02:51:22.83 | Matt Bouchard | Thank you. |
| 02:51:22.85 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 02:51:30.27 | Jonathon Goldman | Most of the time from that point forward, the crane operators dropped the boom of the crane so that she at least, she may not have had a perfect view, but at least she didn't have to look at the lattice boom of a big crane when it wasn't actively being used. You can also see in this photograph how the various segments of sheet pile ended up sometimes at different heights. That's not something that, with the variability that you can see in these photographs, that was expected in the design. |
| 02:51:43.75 | Matt Bouchard | Thank you. you. |
| 02:51:46.03 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:51:46.17 | Matt Bouchard | Thank you. |
| 02:52:08.10 | Jonathon Goldman | and resulted in some additional costs for having to cut them all off at the finished height. And I'm happy to talk about reasons for that, but it's just for purposes of illustration possible to figure out what's going on in that photograph. Here's a couple of split photographs. This shows the substructure and, well, the substructure for the parking deck that was next to Marotta Yachts, the Chandlery building. This is called. One of the issues that we had to deal with is that when what was originally included in the bid in the project was simply to redeck that, to remove the decking, do the work, and replace the decking. When we removed the decking, we found that there was an awful lot of substructure that wasn't in, wasn't fit to receive new decking. Here's a photograph that I kind of alluded to earlier. You can see the indications of the fuel oil that we found as we were attempting to install these concrete anchor blocks. Actually, this photograph is taken just outside the area of this photograph. It's not a seamless photograph. It's two together. But here are some other examples of that particular incident. It's kind of hard to tell here, but this photograph, the backhoe bucket, is right between the two steel fuel storage tanks that were found full of fuel underneath the ground surface. Just some side photographs. We did deploy Reyes with the Saucería Harbor and the Madden's help. When we discovered that issue, we were able to deploy absorbent boom outside the timber pile bulkhead to protect against the possibility that any of that oil got loose and into the environment. And then this is kind of an artistic photograph. In some ways it's a photograph of a big roll-off bin containing soils affected by oil that we removed in order to get to the tanks. And I haven't given this to the police. I don't know whether that tagging happened in Sausalito or not, but that's why I took the photograph. Just again an area where we made some accommodations to allow work to be done at the end of the boardwalk here as you transition out to the shuttle bus parking area and out to Humboldt and Bay. Reyes Construction, by virtue of a project they were doing somewhere else, and I think it may have been in Alameda, had a number of these gangway segments available, and with South Yacht Harbor's permission and assistance, we were able to install that gangway so that pedestrians were able to walk completely around this work area without being particularly exposed to some of the hazards of construction or entering the job site. I'll try and wrap this up and get to the meet, but this photograph shows the new pile cap after the sheet piles themselves are cut off, and I didn't include any photographs of the reinforcing that goes in, but the sheet piles are all tied together by this reinforced |
| 02:55:03.05 | Matt Bouchard | Yeah. |
| 02:55:40.88 | Jonathon Goldman | kind of semi-monolithic pile cap. And then these steel fittings here are the supports for the boardwalk. There's another photograph that will depict some of that. And any of you who haven't been out there lately, I wasn't able to get out and take more photographs today. But there's significant progress that's been made on the boardwalk, and all the paving has been done, I think. This photograph depicts, you can see, the pile cap outside the old timber pile retaining wall. These anchor blocks and the tie rods had to be laid and buried, buried and then the tie rods are tensioned, which provides the support to prevent the sheet piles from moving out towards the water. A photograph showing the conditions of some of the soils that we encountered, you know, pretty significant volumes of soil. We ended up having to, and one of the line items that we're requesting a supplemental appropriation for is a lot more work in handling these subgrade soils, treating them to make them suitable as sub-base. I don't have any photographs, but we also installed a geotextile throughout a significant portion of the project to make sure that the pavement section that we installed will hold up to the loads that it's subjected to, allow truck traffic to come and go from the spinnaker, allow the yacht harbor to continue to do what they do with their rubber-tired gantry cranes and use the travel lift. And the need for that treatment and the geotextile was not included in the design, was not really anticipated. Here's some more rough grading. Photography, again, you can see the cap here, the old timber pile wall, and we're starting to see the structural wooden members associated with the new boardwalk. Here, too, you can see that we're starting to get vertical members of the boardwalk installed. I think this is reversed looking back up the other way. All the electrical conduits and communication conduits to serve all of the floating docks in the Yacht Harbor here. |
| 02:58:26.75 | Jonathon Goldman | This photograph was probably last week, I think, or possibly the week before, where the tie rods are being tensioned and then their ability to hold tension is measured and tested to either verify that they conform to the design standards or not. And then here, new substructure, new wood associated with the parking deck next to Murata at the end of the new boardwalk structure. Since the October 11th update that I delivered to Council, we've accomplished a number of milestones. I'm just summarizing from what's in the staff report. Utility relocation work, sheet piles, the tops of sheet piles cut to their finished lengths, pile cap poured, anchor blocks and tie rods installed and tensioned, 14,000 gallons of heavy fuel oil dealt with, electrical conduits and conductors installed, excess soil transported off-site, subgrade soils treated, and the geotextile installed. An underwater joint between the sheet piles and the existing timber pile breakwater was filled with what's called sack wrap. The chandlery building parking deck supports replaced, parking lot surface repaved. We had to, by virtue of changes in the finished grades, in part due to the quantities of unsuitable and excess material that we dealt with, added some drainage features along with a small retaining wall between the project and the parking lot for the Spinnaker restaurant down towards the past the shop building for the Odd Harbor down towards the restaurant itself. Summarizing some of the, well, all of the project costs that we're requesting a supplemental appropriation for, about $130,000 associated with the oil. I'm calling that category out as an area of potential claim or litigation. had to deal with that issue expeditiously during the course of the project. Otherwise, we'd be subject to delay claims from the contractor that we had retained to do the work. So, you know, by virtue of the structure and the partnership that existed in place, we paid those costs and agreed that, you know, there's definitely some conversations to have with insurance companies and within the structure of our partnership as we reach the conclusion of the project to make sure that those costs are kind of appropriated accordingly, as I indicated in the staff report, to the extent that any of those discussions kind of boil down to either insurance claims, actual insurance claims, or the potential for litigation. Those are matters for closed session and not for here. |
| 03:01:22.79 | Jeremy Graves | you |
| 03:01:35.83 | Jonathon Goldman | Costs that I've identified as subject to further negotiation of the $985,000 in supplemental appropriation that I'm requesting this evening, about $435,000 of those costs are, again, costs that it makes sense for us to, I think, with Council's permission for the supplemental appropriation, to have gone ahead and done the work. complete the electrical work associated with the project, complete the paving so that we didn't have to worry about issues, stormwater pollution issues when it starts raining, add the retaining wall and other features to allow us to complete the project, and then work with our partners to sort out who ultimately is responsible for paying anything different from the 50-50 cost share that we already have. Here's another change order line item for paving. I can't off the top of my head tell you why there are two different things, although this may, as I recall, this may represent paving down towards the spinnaker and the retaining wall that wasn't originally included, whereas we have another parking lot paving project. And then we have a fairly significant dollar volume of lumber that had to be acquired outside what was originally anticipated for the project, electrical and plumbing materials, and then demolition that was performed and, you know, needs to be sorted out. Other project costs that I think are less susceptible to that kind of conversation, they're costs that, in my judgment, are legitimate project costs and should be borne 50-50 with the rest of the project. We ended up with some pretty significant changes in the way the fire suppression system gets constructed when compared with what was originally designed. In large part, those are a result of the fact that the design hadn't been vetted through the fire marshal's office before it went to bid, and in addition, we have the opportunity to enhance with a hydrant that wasn't originally in the plans to enhance the protection for Spinnaker Restaurant. For those of you who don't know, there's a hydrant at Spinnaker Restaurant, and the next closest hydrant is maybe all the way up on Humboldt. The fire department has indicated that they would rather not park next to a burning building to establish a water supply. So we've made arrangements to provide a couple of better hydrants for that purpose. There were some issues, inconsistencies in the plans with respect to elevation. So we ended up incurring some costs because the cap heights or the depths of the pile cap were not could not legitimately be built the way they were designed, so we had to make some changes and |
| 03:05:01.67 | Matt Bouchard | Thank you. Amen. |
| 03:05:05.67 | Jonathon Goldman | entertain that change order. The original plan was to have helical anchors, kind of like earth screws or something like that to tie back the sheet pile wall in the vicinity of the Spinnaker restaurant. I showed you the concrete anchor blocks that actually were a change that Reyes had recommended that early in the project saved us some money when compared with steel sheet piles. The helical anchors were not going to accomplish the design objectives. There's not enough strength in the soil to resist the forces that needed to be resisted there. So we ended up having to change to the same kind of anchor blocks, but with much shorter tie rods, and probably see a decrease in performance compared to what the design team wishes they had, but that's what we have. Again, some changes to electrical. |
| 03:05:55.89 | Matt Bouchard | And |
| 03:06:12.34 | Jonathon Goldman | The pile cutoff item that I mentioned, the basis of the bid, the Reyes Construction's estimate in preparing their bid was that they would spend about $15,000 cutting off the tops of piles that, for whatever reason, could not be driven to design depth. In reality, they had to cut all of them off. And so that is a legitimate charge on their part. They conformed to the bid documents and then were willing, sitting down with me and the Maddens, willing to negotiate what we regard as a reasonable price for that. In addition, they had some legitimate delay claims based on a number of things. The fact that they couldn't work in the area of the oil for a week, some other issues that I'd be happy to provide detail on in closed session or at some point subsequently. This change order addresses both of those issues. We had, again, nearly $90,000 in extra costs because the material that was encountered under the existing paving when Reyes went to pave was not suitable to put the base rock on and pave over. So it had to be worked, and we had excess material, so material had to be hauled off-site. Boardwalk supports, this too is an issue related to the elevation inconsistency in the drawings. We ended up having to add supports for the boardwalks that were not originally part of the design. graphack wrap I mentioned, another element. This is kind of a small item, but we excluded waste wood from Reyes' contract. The original concept was that materials that were, that could be salvaged from the project, reusable decking and things like that, reusable wood pilings, between Sausalito Yacht Harbor and the city of Sausalito we would use. At this point, there was material that just isn't suitable for reuse and because it wasn't in Reyes' contract, You know, they've had a change in order to handle that and then get it properly disposed of. The chandlery structure I also mentioned, $35,000 approximately for other project costs there. Fiscal impacts, just to remind you and members of the public, the project is funded under a First Amendment to the lease of public tides and submerged lands between Sausalito Yacht Harbor and the city of Sausalito. The lease essentially constitutes an agreement that half the project cost as defined in the lease will be borne by the City and app by Saucelot or Yacht Harbor. As expressed in the lease and confirmed in regard to the necessary supplemental appropriation, Sassaluti Yacht Harbor will deposit the supplementally appropriated funds to the escrow account established for payment of the project costs once Council approves the supplemental appropriation. The effect of that supplemental appropriation is that the city will see a long-term reduction in expected revenue as a result of the rent credit funding the way the project is funded. So that's a negative. On the other hand, we anticipate, we, the finance director and I anticipate, and South Y Harbor, anticipate that additional rents that weren't necessarily taken into account in preparing the lease may offset those reductions, but we can't precisely forecast that at this time. |
| 03:10:10.81 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 03:10:10.97 | Matt Bouchard | Thank you. |
| 03:10:20.66 | Jonathon Goldman | So staff's recommendation is that the council approve a supplemental appropriation of $985,000, authorize the city manager to expend appropriated funds, all or in part, and also recognize that negotiations have the potential to result in claims or litigation and that those will be addressed in council's subsequent closed sessions as warranted and that the council |
| 03:10:21.40 | Matt Bouchard | record. |
| 03:10:41.87 | Matt Bouchard | Thank you. |
| 03:10:41.94 | Unknown | you |
| 03:10:47.44 | Jonathon Goldman | in those other areas that don't necessarily result in claims or litigation, we expect that the project costs will be reduced below the amounts that we are requesting. |
| 03:10:50.46 | Matt Bouchard | AND, |
| 03:11:01.36 | Jonathon Goldman | Questions of me. Or anyone. |
| 03:11:06.24 | Unknown | questions. you I have good questions. |
| 03:11:11.35 | Unknown | Thank you. Question? |
| 03:11:14.02 | Unknown | So, Jonathan, if you could flip back through these slides to a certain extent. So of the 985 in total, you wait, hold on. So you've got this section, the 420, which you're saying in your estimation is best split according to the agreement. And then you have this 435, which you're saying what may be... |
| 03:11:21.31 | Unknown | So. |
| 03:11:21.58 | Matt Bouchard | Thank you. |
| 03:11:40.23 | Unknown | Well, rather than put words in your mouth, what was your analysis of the category you dropped these costs into? |
| 03:11:46.40 | Jonathon Goldman | I'm less certain that it would rise to the level of 50-50 city, South Slido Yacht Harbor. Okay. I think there's the possibility that the city will not end up with all of 50% of these costs, but I really don't want to prejudge that. |
| 03:11:54.28 | Unknown | I think |
| 03:12:07.99 | Jonathon Goldman | the proposed change orders and the costs have been identified. And at my insistence, they've been booked this way because I think it's important that the total cost of the project be dealt with as a public works project. But at the same time, You know, these are complex issues and again, in my judgment, there is the potential Um, and I think more than the potential, the obligation to further negotiate with our partners and potentially our design team and potentially our contractor on these costs. |
| 03:12:50.69 | Unknown | And then there was a bucket before this which is essentially the oil spill, right? Or the oil situation. 130. Okay. Okay. |
| 03:12:54.16 | Matt Bouchard | oils. |
| 03:12:54.63 | Jonathon Goldman | Correct. |
| 03:12:54.97 | Matt Bouchard | Thank you. |
| 03:13:00.08 | Unknown | So, um... As far as determining responsibility of cost for this section and the next section, has there been movement either way or is it too early in terms of determining, besides insurance claims, which is a long process, and that will take time, and claims against, say, improper design or that those will also take a longer period of time. |
| 03:13:29.69 | Doug Lloyd | THE LONG. |
| 03:13:32.04 | Unknown | in terms of just who's responsible for what, has there been any movement initially in terms of these more less clear who bears the cost categories? |
| 03:13:46.57 | Jonathon Goldman | The best answer I can offer is that I wouldn't use the word movement. What there has been is open and frank discussion of the reality that, for example, these costs were completely unanticipated and that reasonable people would offer a variety of different perspectives on an equitable, equitable, equitable, equitable, uh, I guess sharing of costs. And the agreement with Sausalito Yacht Harbor and the project management team to pay the hard costs and agree to have much more serious and substantial discussions once the project is completed and the hard cost has been paid to make sure that, you know, taken in whole, those costs are equitably distributed. And that isn't necessarily movement, it's communication. |
| 03:15:06.42 | Unknown | Okay. Thank you. |
| 03:15:08.34 | Unknown | Thank you, Jonathan. Thank you. |
| 03:15:09.36 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:15:09.37 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:15:09.41 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:15:09.42 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:15:09.51 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:15:09.83 | Unknown | you you A public comment? Anybody from the public care to address this issue? you |
| 03:15:19.33 | Unknown | I've got one question for Charlie. Just from a financial standpoint, and this is just to help get my head around it. So obviously the nature of the agreement is absent moving things from one category to another, or who pays what, is a split, kind of a 50-50 share, and the rent kind of rises and falls, or rises as you increase more of the capital costs. |
| 03:15:38.43 | Matt Bouchard | RIGHT? |
| 03:15:44.54 | Unknown | help me give simplistic terms, help me get ahead of my head around how this will impact kind of the their revenue from slip revenue is what it's going to be over time. So how does this impact that? |
| 03:15:55.58 | Unknown | So in effect there's a schedule for payment of the final project costs over a 25 year period and that payment, the rent credit or you might want to say 5% interest rate on that loan. But the unique thing is that the rents will never be negative. So we'll either get rents or the rent amount will be zero until the rent revenues exceed the interest payment, the interest and principal payment. So when we initially prepared and recommended the 25-year schedule for a $2.5 million lease credit, we had no negative years. Thank you. the 25-year schedule for a $2.5 million lease credit, we had no negative years. We were positive right out of the bat. Under this scenario of adding an extra $500,000 credit, we'll probably have five years of zero rent before we start coming in. at the projected rents that I use then. If rents increase as a result of the slips having more capacity to serve higher paying rentals, then that'll accelerate. |
| 03:17:11.78 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:17:11.87 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:17:11.89 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:17:12.04 | Unknown | Back to public comment. Anybody care? |
| 03:17:12.34 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:17:14.94 | Unknown | you |
| 03:17:14.99 | Unknown | Just... |
| 03:17:15.02 | Unknown | Is that simple enough or did I just stop the speech? No, that's perfect. |
| 03:17:16.65 | Unknown | No, that's perfect. And the reason why it never goes negative is that does it add to the principal amount? It just carries over to the principal. Right, right. |
| 03:17:23.58 | Unknown | it's just Right, right. |
| 03:17:28.07 | Unknown | All right, back to public comment. Does anybody care to address this item? Seeing none, I'll bring it back up here. I'll make a motion that we adopt a resolution to the City Council of the City of Sausalito approving a supplemental appropriation of 985 for completion of the Sausalito Yacht Harbor, Bay Street bulkhead replacement project, and authorizing the City Manager to approve the change orders up to the revised total appropriated budget amount of $6,063,373. |
| 03:17:57.28 | Unknown | I'll say it. |
| 03:17:58.26 | Unknown | Okay, now we have discussion, so we care to discuss. No? No? |
| 03:18:06.21 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:18:06.41 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:18:06.43 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:18:06.88 | Unknown | Yeah, I guess, you know, and no offense to the Medans, I do appreciate their cooperation with this concept over time. And I hope that, you know, between the city and the Medans, there will be a spirit of cooperation resolving the allocation of costs here. So again, I go back to I think this is an opportunity lost with this construction project because it could have been a chance to sort of settle disputes and get clarity in this whole area of land ownership and responsibility for the construction project. and amend a lease that probably was not structured properly to begin with, but in terms of risk allocation, That being said, um, I do appreciate your shouldering costs when in fact you had a lease that didn't require you to do that in the first place. So I'm not oblivious to that fact. So I just wanted to state that so you don't think I'm completely crazy, though I might be slightly crazy certainly. |
| 03:19:24.54 | Unknown | Council Member Ford, comments? |
| 03:19:26.38 | Unknown | What? |
| 03:19:26.82 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:19:27.04 | Unknown | All right, I want to say just for the record that Anytime you dig in the ground, or you dig in the water and you do stuff, stuff happens. And so these are not to be unexpected results from a failing bulkhead and we could not know how much it would be, but judging from my observations, casual that they may be out there looking around, it's not a surprise. It was a major surprise. major, major project of giant proportions. and we're probably very lucky it didn't cost more. So, and I think to Jonathan's credit, he's really Been on it. Been on it. And it shows the project's coming in. We've been fortunate to not have a lot of rain so we can finish it. And it's going to be something that will be to our benefit for a long time to come. |
| 03:20:16.85 | Joe Lemon | been on it. |
| 03:20:32.34 | Unknown | I'll just add, you know, that absent the oil discovery, you know, I think that would make it a Certainly right now it's about a 20% cost overrun, and it would certainly bring that into kind of more of a normal range of defined things, unforeseen things, but it's outside of even the overruns that we put in to begin with. |
| 03:20:44.41 | Unknown | overriding. |
| 03:20:58.85 | Unknown | But that being said, I do think that in the spirit that you've brought to it, it needs to be brought to sort of allocating the costs accordingly of some of these overruns. It is somewhat baffling from a common sense standpoint that |
| 03:21:11.50 | Unknown | it's, |
| 03:21:16.57 | Unknown | and I don't know. I can't remember the firm who did the design of this, that you would anticipate the bay mud level or the degree of your ability to drive a piling to be equal for that extent of distance, you know, and to that depth of difference of how far you can go. That's, I don't know how far they end up going, but that looks like 20 feet of stuff above The Crown United States. Thank you. |
| 03:21:44.65 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:21:45.06 | Unknown | having Thank you. having observed over my career. of building things. there was a company called Bramley, that Bramley from Canada came down to build condominiums in Benicia. they went out and they did, or the water, they were going to the waterfront. |
| 03:22:00.75 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 03:22:01.02 | Unknown | They went out there and they tested all the soils and they had all these engineers and they spent a few bucks getting ready and they determined they were going to use piles that were 110 feet long or something like that. They came out, they offloaded the piles, they stood them up, they dropped them in and they just kept going. |
| 03:22:21.39 | Jeremy Graves | Thank you. |
| 03:22:21.53 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:22:21.58 | Jeremy Graves | Thank you. |
| 03:22:21.68 | Unknown | Thank you. And they literally lost the project. I mean, it completely failed because somehow |
| 03:22:22.25 | Unknown | And then... |
| 03:22:27.77 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. The bay mud is the bay mud is the bay mud, and it does what it does. And so. Yeah. |
| 03:22:28.83 | Jeremy Graves | The Bay Mud is the Bay Mud, yeah. |
| 03:22:30.37 | Unknown | Right. |
| 03:22:30.69 | Jeremy Graves | So, |
| 03:22:32.31 | Unknown | Yeah, and Mr. Mayor, I was there and saw those pilings, concrete pilings, and saw what they were doing to huge saws they were using to go through those with all the metal and everything in there already. |
| 03:22:47.12 | Unknown | I'm somewhat familiar with what's going on at the Transbay Terminal. Those piles are scheduled to go down. |
| 03:22:49.52 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 03:22:54.26 | Unknown | 110 feet and they won't know exactly where refusal is going to be and refusal there isn't even bedrock, it's just better mud, if you will. So anytime, as I say, anytime you put anything in the water or in the ground, you'll get and you go after it, God bless, including chips with fuel oil. So who could know? So that being said, Why don't we call the roll because it's a big number. |
| 03:23:29.62 | Debbie | Council Member Pfeiffer? |
| 03:23:30.92 | Unknown | Yes. |
| 03:23:32.38 | Debbie | Councilmember Ford? Yes. Councilmember Weiner? |
| 03:23:33.55 | Unknown | Yes. |
| 03:23:34.51 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 03:23:34.56 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:23:34.63 | Doug Lloyd | you |
| 03:23:34.68 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:23:34.75 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 03:23:35.61 | Debbie | Thank you. |
| 03:23:35.69 | Unknown | Yes. |
| 03:23:35.71 | Debbie | TODAY. Thank you. Vice Mayor Leone. |
| 03:23:39.57 | Unknown | Yeah, I'll vote yes here, even though previously on all these items I voted no, but not because these costs are what the costs are. You just don't vote no for the heck you're voting no. Here it's just like, again, I hope there's the right spirit of resolving this. |
| 03:23:40.20 | Matt Bouchard | Okay. |
| 03:23:55.84 | Debbie | Mary Kelly. |
| 03:23:57.14 | Unknown | Yes. you |
| 03:23:59.57 | Unknown | Go get it. |
| 03:23:59.92 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:24:00.02 | Unknown | Thank you guys. finished. |
| 03:24:03.43 | Unknown | Don't dig up any more ships. We found one on Johnson Street you could have, too. |
| 03:24:13.27 | Unknown | Okay, next. City Manager. |
| 03:24:16.41 | Adam Politzer | Thank you. I'll keep it brief. You've had a lot of activity in your community and a lot of activity at special meetings, and I do want to just highlight two dates for the public's benefit. I believe that the council received an email from our associate planner informing folks this afternoon that the Planning Commission has called a special meeting of their own and they are going to be meeting on Thursday and they'd like to provide feedback to the council since the special meeting that the council and the Planning Commission concluded with last night was continued to the 30th which is Monday they felt that they would hold a meeting on Thursday to be able to bring forward their recommendation to the council so they'll be a meeting this Thursday of the Planning Commission in the EOC at 3 p.m. and then followed on Monday there'll be a meeting of the City Council at 6 3030 p.m. here in the Council Chambers. Last night's joint meeting of the Planning Commission and the City Council, was web streamed and for anyone that missed it, or would like the opportunity to review it. It's all captured. and hopefully it's a benefit to our community. And we'll do that again on the 30th. The other item I wanted to let folks know because there's been, especially in the economic development report, mention of the America's Cup. I want to remind the council and the community that Kate Sears is meeting on a regular basis on a regional effort to make sure that Southern Marin, their concerns are addressed and the opportunities that have consensus are pursued. In that same spirit, past Mayor Weiner had appointed a task force that you folks received a report from Jim Gabbert many months ago, and their work had come to an end, and it was to evolve into a local organizing committee similar to what was formed for the Tour of California. And so that committee is starting to get their feet underneath them. The three co-chairs, the three Amigas and Amigo are Jeff Shirash, Chief Tejada, and Kathy Steerhoff. They are running the local organizing committee, and they've invited the chair people of the task force, which include Bill Warner, Ann Arnott, Jeff Shirash, who obviously is the chair, and Chris Gallagher also being invited to the local organizing committee. And the local organizing committee will grow a little bit similar to the Tua California local organizing committee. But Heidi Burns will be also joining them representing the planning department and shouldering some of the city responsibility that Chief Dejada will be shouldering. and Marina O'Neill. So that is the initial group. And Jim Gabbert playing a role which yet has been defined because he's busy and travels a lot. but obviously has a great passion for this and obviously a valuable resource to our community. So if there are members of the community that are interested in serving on the various subcommittees that again will develop and some of the recommendations, the low-hanging fruit, the non-controversial items that came from the America's Cup Task Force. That's where they're going to start. They're going to come back with a presentation to the council, probably the second meeting in February. That's what they're aiming for. And then items that are also non-controversial that may not be considered low-hanging fruit, but which may require some work. They'll also bring that forward as their initial objectives. At this point, the direction they received from me based on Mayor Weiner at the time's directive or comments at the conclusion of the task force meeting was that they are to stay away from the controversial items until council gives direction to do something different. So I think you'll be pleased with what comes back from the task force as their initial effort, but with the milestones that are ahead of us for this coming season, this coming year, and then what comes to us next year, for us to do anything of any real significance is going to take a lot of volunteers in our community to move this forward. So all the folks that are wanting to get involved, there will be an opportunity for them to get involved. They're just developing the leadership group right now. You got to keep that small or you don't get a lot of things done and then give key roles, captain roles to each one of the various subcommittees that may evolve from this. So that's, I just wanted to make sure that you folks knew that there was active activity out there from when the task force and that their assignment to when the local organizing committee has picked up the reins and then obviously in conjunction and coordination with Supervisor Sears efforts on the regional approach. That concludes my report. I'm happy to answer any specific questions you may have. |
| 03:30:03.43 | Unknown | Thank you. Let's move on to future agenda items. taking the... responsibility to divide these into two groups because we've just got a whole bunch of items here. And when I, by my judgment, only three of these fit under future agenda and the balance of them I've determined, and I believe, that will require staff time to implement and study. So I relegated those to priority project consideration. So I'd like to vote tonight on the following three future agenda items and see if we have a consensus to put them on the agenda. The first is financial oversight fire consolidation. I move that we remove that from the future agenda. Thank you. And do I have a second? |
| 03:31:05.61 | Unknown | I'll second it. |
| 03:31:06.76 | Unknown | Okay, any other motions? Any other comments? |
| 03:31:11.28 | Unknown | What was that? |
| 03:31:13.02 | Unknown | These are, you know, I'm, they've just accumulated over time. So if you want. I can answer that. |
| 03:31:13.06 | Unknown | . I'll see you next time. |
| 03:31:15.40 | Unknown | I can answer this. |
| 03:31:16.58 | Unknown | It's human. |
| 03:31:19.20 | Unknown | I could answer that one. That was to have a financial oversight committee to review the fire consolidation, annexation as it is, composed of residents. |
| 03:31:36.97 | Unknown | Okay. Thank you. I think we've gone way beyond that. So let's call the vote. Maybe? Sorry. |
| 03:31:46.42 | Unknown | I'm sorry, Mr. Mayor, can I ask a clarification? So the intent of this financial oversight, I recall, I |
| 03:31:48.83 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:31:48.85 | Debbie | Bye. |
| 03:31:57.91 | Unknown | very strongly supported. still think that it's valid. Is there a reason why? I mean, I understand it's been voted to go forward and everything, but |
| 03:32:07.95 | Unknown | I'm suggesting as an agenda setter that we vote on that item and either agree to put it on the agenda or agree to take it off the agenda. Yes. |
| 03:32:18.70 | Unknown | So what is one? |
| 03:32:19.17 | Unknown | So... I made a motion, and we have a second. And... |
| 03:32:23.86 | Unknown | To remove it? To remove it. Okay. |
| 03:32:23.88 | Unknown | to the To remove it. Thank you. |
| 03:32:25.77 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:32:27.24 | Unknown | So, Colo. It's a citizen service, like some sort of committee. Yeah, something like that. Well, it's what we use... |
| 03:32:33.75 | Unknown | Well, it's what we use for the safety building. It's the same idea. you |
| 03:32:37.90 | Unknown | I think we need to consider that at some future date, and I'd be willing to do that. But right now, I think in the heat of the battle, we stay with the course. |
| 03:32:45.12 | Unknown | YOU KNOW, I'M GOING TO |
| 03:32:45.40 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 03:32:49.14 | Unknown | Well, I'll make one more comment, Mr. Mayor. Should the protest vote succeed, we may need to resurrect this idea. |
| 03:33:02.15 | Unknown | should the protest vote succeed, there would not be a consolidation. No, no, no. |
| 03:33:07.28 | Unknown | No, no, no. That's not true. It will go to a vote of the residents. If it succeeds 25%, it will go to a vote of the residents. If 50 plus 1... |
| 03:33:11.97 | Unknown | If it succeeds, |
| 03:33:13.46 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 03:33:14.66 | Unknown | It was. |
| 03:33:14.98 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 03:33:15.03 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:33:18.72 | Unknown | votes there will be no consolidation well that's true |
| 03:33:20.29 | Unknown | Well, that's true. But 25 percent, 1,400 signatures is a lot to get. Mr. Mayor, can I respond? |
| 03:33:21.34 | Unknown | Right. Thank you. |
| 03:33:24.46 | Unknown | 14. |
| 03:33:24.85 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:33:26.43 | Unknown | Mr. Mayor, can I respond to that? No, this is very important. We're in discussion. I would like to respond. As you know, the goal has never been to halt fire annexation. The goal has always been to put it to the vote, to put it on a ballot vote. |
| 03:33:29.12 | Unknown | This is very important. |
| 03:33:42.53 | Unknown | to put it on a ballot vote. This is not a place to discuss fire annexation. You mentioned the 50% |
| 03:33:46.95 | Unknown | You mentioned the 50%, Mr. Mayor. |
| 03:33:48.73 | Unknown | We're simply voting on the fire consolidation as an agenda item. So is there any comment to that particular thing? |
| 03:33:51.97 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:33:52.15 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:33:52.19 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:33:52.25 | Unknown | you |
| 03:33:57.06 | Unknown | I'd say leave it in limbo until we know for sure that we're not going to be addressing it again. Okay, thank you. So I move that we... |
| 03:34:03.58 | Unknown | Okay. |
| 03:34:03.97 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 03:34:04.03 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:34:04.27 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 03:34:04.35 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:34:04.39 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 03:34:04.40 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 03:34:07.46 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:34:07.64 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:34:07.83 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:34:07.96 | Unknown | It's just going to be a double vote. |
| 03:34:12.33 | Unknown | Well, it probably is. Go ahead. |
| 03:34:14.02 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:34:14.17 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 03:34:14.19 | Unknown | Thanks, man. |
| 03:34:14.80 | Unknown | you |
| 03:34:14.87 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:34:14.97 | Unknown | Go ahead. Let's go forward. Let's go forward with this vote. Mr. Mayor, we have a motion. Let's vote on it. |
| 03:34:17.82 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:34:17.85 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:34:17.95 | Unknown | . |
| 03:34:21.63 | Unknown | Yes. I'm trying to get rid of these. |
| 03:34:25.61 | Unknown | Well, this is only one item. We can move forward. Yeah. Have you made a motion? |
| 03:34:27.32 | Unknown | Yeah. Are you made a motion? No. No. Mr. Mayor, please. |
| 03:34:31.40 | Doug Lloyd | No. |
| 03:34:31.69 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:34:35.50 | Unknown | No, I am not going to make it. |
| 03:34:37.26 | Unknown | Wait, wait, wait. I'm supposed to be in charge here. Yes, please take charge. So would you like to have one minute to talk? |
| 03:34:39.84 | Unknown | Yes, please take charge. No, I withdraw my motion. OK. Do you want to talk? |
| 03:34:48.46 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:34:49.02 | Unknown | No, Mr. Mayor, I was just clarifying the process. Correct. Asking you to clarify the process. The process is we have a motion and a second. |
| 03:34:51.62 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:34:51.65 | Unknown | That's right. |
| 03:34:53.31 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:34:53.32 | Unknown | the process that you will be. Thank you. |
| 03:34:55.45 | Unknown | Thank you. Would you please repeat the motion? The motion is to remove financial |
| 03:34:58.39 | Unknown | Would you please? The motion is to remove financial oversight fire consolidation from the future agenda. as a future. Okay. |
| 03:35:09.58 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:35:09.61 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:35:10.20 | Debbie | Thank you. |
| 03:35:12.48 | Unknown | I'm sorry. |
| 03:35:12.97 | Debbie | Councilmember Fiefer. |
| 03:35:14.54 | Unknown | No. |
| 03:35:15.87 | Debbie | Councilmember Ford. |
| 03:35:17.02 | Unknown | No. |
| 03:35:17.91 | Debbie | Councilman. Council member Whiter. |
| 03:35:22.25 | Unknown | Yes. |
| 03:35:24.24 | Debbie | Vice Mayor Leosa. |
| 03:35:25.15 | Unknown | Just a point of clarification. The original proposal here was to just so I understand we're voting to remove, was to create a committee of some sort to review the See you. Thank you. find the financial reports generated by City Gate for their accuracy is what I would, is my read of what this agenda item was. |
| 03:35:58.21 | Unknown | Mr. Mayor, I recommended this item so I can answer that question. The item was to create a committee composed of residents with financial knowledge, similar to what we had for the safety buildings, to review all figures and financials relating to fire annexation. |
| 03:36:26.19 | Unknown | So no. Or yes, yes to the motion. Yes to the motion. I don't think it needs that to create a motion. |
| 03:36:29.82 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:36:29.83 | Unknown | Yes, sir. |
| 03:36:32.25 | Alice Merrill | Thank you. |
| 03:36:32.35 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:36:32.68 | Alice Merrill | Yeah. |
| 03:36:32.90 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:36:33.21 | Unknown | Yes. Okay, so let's move to support for AB1103. |
| 03:36:38.81 | Unknown | What is AP? |
| 03:36:42.10 | Unknown | I looked it up, now I can't remember. Does anybody know what AB 1103 is? |
| 03:36:48.26 | Unknown | No, I don't. |
| 03:36:48.78 | Unknown | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 03:36:48.93 | Unknown | I can't remember what it was. It can't be that important to some of that. Can we agree? |
| 03:36:52.24 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:36:52.26 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 03:36:52.28 | Unknown | Mr. Mayor? Mr. Mayor? Yes. May I respond? Because I think that was supposed to be AB 32, and it seems to have morphed to. |
| 03:36:53.59 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:36:53.73 | Unknown | Mr. Mayor? |
| 03:37:01.34 | Unknown | It seems to have morphed. It's right here, AB1102. |
| 03:37:02.91 | Unknown | you Thank you. No, I know, I'm seeing it. Okay, I thought maybe it was a typo. |
| 03:37:06.11 | Unknown | Okay, so if nobody can remember what it is, can we just all agree unanimously to take it off and it's really important it'll come back again? I agree. Take it off. I agree. Take it off. Okay. Make a motion or remove. |
| 03:37:15.51 | Unknown | I agree to take it off. |
| 03:37:20.22 | Unknown | Second. |
| 03:37:21.20 | Unknown | All in favor? Aye. Anybody opposed? Great. And then the next one is style type of meeting minutes. I think that's something that we have agreed to do the way we're doing it. And I don't think there's any reason to change before we put this on the agenda. So I move that we remove this from future agenda items, which would continue the process that we now have, which is |
| 03:37:21.96 | Unknown | Bye. Bye. |
| 03:37:48.42 | Unknown | action minutes and And take it. Wait a second. |
| 03:37:56.82 | Unknown | I'll second. Okay. I think it's going to be cold. |
| 03:38:01.89 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:38:01.90 | Debbie | Council Member Pfeiffer. |
| 03:38:05.08 | Unknown | And this is to remove it? Correct. Oh, yes. |
| 03:38:08.72 | Debbie | Council Member Ford. |
| 03:38:10.71 | Unknown | Yes. |
| 03:38:10.73 | Debbie | Yes. |
| 03:38:12.84 | Unknown | I'm sorry, Mr. Mayor. I have a clarification. |
| 03:38:17.46 | Unknown | Okay. |
| 03:38:18.68 | Unknown | I wonder if the style type of meeting minutes actually referred to narrative minutes if this was my Okay, I was I I was Looking at another deadline and my apologies. Yeah, I think that is still very important I would like to recast my vote as as I |
| 03:38:27.81 | Doug Lloyd | Okay, that was the marriage narrative. |
| 03:38:37.48 | Matt Bouchard | Yeah. |
| 03:38:44.16 | Unknown | No. for transparency. |
| 03:38:50.37 | Unknown | If this is to provide more information in writing on our meetings, I think that's important. Because now what we have is... Okay, can you just vote? I will vote, but I want to explain why I am, just as you allowed him to do. because I think that people having to go to the videos and spend the amount of time they have to spend sorting through them is not so great. So I think that having more information in our minutes rather than less is a way to do it. So I would agree to... |
| 03:39:03.07 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:39:03.09 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:39:03.24 | Unknown | It is. |
| 03:39:03.97 | Unknown | Please. |
| 03:39:04.64 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:39:07.41 | Unknown | Okay. |
| 03:39:32.44 | Unknown | Um, Keep this on and I vote. Yes to keep it on, I guess. That's no. No, not to remove it. Right. |
| 03:39:39.15 | Unknown | That's no. All right. |
| 03:39:42.39 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:39:44.69 | Debbie | Council Member Weiner. |
| 03:39:45.77 | Unknown | Yes. |
| 03:39:46.04 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:39:47.79 | Debbie | Vice Mayor Liam. |
| 03:39:49.48 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:39:49.50 | Unknown | Yes. |
| 03:39:49.72 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:39:50.97 | Debbie | Mary Kelly. |
| 03:39:51.69 | Unknown | Yes. So then the remaining items of which there are 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, I would propose a motion that we keep those on the priority project consideration list. We'll just lengthen it a bunch, and then it will get, they'll either rise to the level or they won't. |
| 03:40:12.46 | Unknown | the oversized bus issue. |
| 03:40:16.97 | Unknown | Good. I don't know, but somebody proposed it. |
| 03:40:17.80 | Unknown | So, |
| 03:40:17.92 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:40:17.95 | Unknown | I don't know. |
| 03:40:18.50 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:40:19.81 | Unknown | Well, I think that was, might have been one of mine, because the buses, they're oversized buses that come down Alexander Avenue that cross the yellow line all the time. |
| 03:40:30.45 | Unknown | Yeah. So these are items that, again, I determined by the virtue of what I either knew about them or could figure out that would cause staff time. And that is what the priority calendar is for. So... |
| 03:40:46.77 | Unknown | Well, there is one here. that shouldn't even be on the agenda. It should be that we just go ahead and schedule interviews for our committees and the bike and pedestrian committee is one. The second one from the bottom. |
| 03:41:04.51 | Unknown | Um... Well, I don't know about the bike and pedestrian community. What is it you don't know? I don't know. |
| 03:41:09.89 | Unknown | What is it you don't know? I don't know anything about it. |
| 03:41:12.47 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:41:12.61 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:41:12.69 | Unknown | Can we discuss these in detail? Thank you. |
| 03:41:18.02 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 03:41:18.06 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:41:18.21 | Unknown | Just enough to understand them. |
| 03:41:18.23 | Unknown | Thank you. you. Right. And that's what I'm saying. Thank you. |
| 03:41:20.91 | Unknown | On the list of commissions that I have been given, there is not a bike and pedestrian committee. |
| 03:41:27.08 | Unknown | We established one this past year, Mr. Mayor. I don't have it on the list. Well, then it's a typo or it's a... |
| 03:41:27.14 | Unknown | So, yeah. |
| 03:41:33.16 | Adam Politzer | Well then it's a type of. |
| 03:41:34.81 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 03:41:36.59 | Adam Politzer | It may not necessarily be either an oversight or a typo. I think it's in limbo because it was part of the action of the bridgeway, the ferry landing plan. Right. That part of that plan requires to have this committee. Okay. And so there's no applicant because there hasn't been one hand and then staff on. Todd's all his time spent on doing streets. But it needs to be a priority of the council as we look at which of these commissions, committees, boards, task force, are we going to keep populated or populate at all because we have some that have no members. The council has to prioritize so that we can dedicate staff time to go and look for people that are interested in representing these that are just not bike people or just not pedestrian, you know, the conversation we had back when we talked about the importance of this. And I think when you go back to what the council directed, I think they identified the various reps and what, if they were residents or non-residents, business folks that represent walkers. I mean, it was well-defined. But it goes on the whole list of all the other boards and commissions and task force that need to be populated. |
| 03:41:37.61 | Unknown | Oversight. |
| 03:41:53.51 | Unknown | Okay. |
| 03:42:04.75 | Doug Lloyd | Doing streets. |
| 03:42:38.03 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:42:38.05 | Unknown | MR. |
| 03:43:00.66 | Unknown | Yeah. Well, so that, in my mind, that puts it on the priority project because it's going to require staff time to figure out, and we need to decide how much time we want to spend and whether we can do this. |
| 03:43:09.08 | Unknown | It's the requirement. |
| 03:43:14.85 | Unknown | Well, I would ask, Mr. Mayor, I would ask staff to double check that, if you would please, because I do remember voting on it. |
| 03:43:23.76 | Adam Politzer | it. |
| 03:43:26.10 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:43:26.36 | Adam Politzer | There's no question that we voted on it, but we've never populated it or advertised it. |
| 03:43:26.58 | Unknown | Mr. President. |
| 03:43:31.03 | Unknown | We have not populated it, but I believe we've advertised it because we have people who have applied |
| 03:43:38.39 | Unknown | Not for the reincarnation of this committee. Yes. They may have applied, but we haven't advertised for this because there was a previous incarnation of this committee. It was called something else. |
| 03:43:41.36 | Unknown | Yes. |
| 03:43:41.80 | Doug Lloyd | No. |
| 03:43:41.88 | Unknown | this committee, did you just |
| 03:43:43.15 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:43:43.27 | Jeremy Graves | Mr. Mayor. |
| 03:43:43.70 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:43:43.82 | Unknown | What? |
| 03:43:47.67 | Adam Politzer | there was a lot of people. |
| 03:43:52.61 | Unknown | No, if I can. |
| 03:43:52.63 | Adam Politzer | If I can just, if I may, as everyone recalls, we have certain items that come on our agenda that gets the community's interest and participation, and this was one of them. And we had many meetings at various levels where folks participated. And at the final action of the council, there was a decent number of people in the community that were supporters of this that came and said they would volunteer and they probably followed up by filling out some form or the other. But we haven't formally gone out there and advertised as we would normally do for any one of the boards and commissions. I think at the time where this got approved, the actual project was approved and accepted and the task force or the committee was determined on who they would be. or not not who they would be by name, but the positions that would be open and available to be populated, they were members of the community that obviously were in the audience or had participated along the ride and submitted their names to be for consideration. But we haven't actively advertised for this, similar to some of the other boards and commissions that still need members to make them whole or even make them functional. |
| 03:45:20.91 | Unknown | So I would like to ask staff why aren't we scheduling interviews for these commissions and boards, committees? |
| 03:45:29.36 | Unknown | boards. I would love to see a chapter in our ordinance or wherever it is that we create these things. that says what the purpose is, how it's going to be constituted. All that needs to be thought out. Staff needs to go through it and say, here's what we recommend to be populated if indeed there is a reason to have it. And then the council would agree or not agree, and we'd go through a process to make that happen. Because right now, I would be very reluctant to appoint anybody to a board that doesn't even have a mission at the moment. |
| 03:46:00.70 | Unknown | Well, the bicycle and pedestrian has a mission. |
| 03:46:04.61 | Unknown | Yes. not in my mind, |
| 03:46:05.98 | Unknown | Well, that's why I'm asking staff to go back and get that... the minutes of that meeting and show me... |
| 03:46:06.08 | Unknown | Well, that's why I'm asking staff to |
| 03:46:12.71 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 03:46:12.73 | Unknown | you |
| 03:46:12.76 | Doug Lloyd | Yeah. |
| 03:46:16.31 | Unknown | what you're talking about because my recollection is that we do have but I'm |
| 03:46:21.59 | Unknown | In the meantime, can we put it on the priority calendar? |
| 03:46:24.25 | Unknown | No, I think it should, well, I don't think it should be on either. I think we should be advertising and filling it. Not until I see something in writing. That's why I'm asking staff to give us the writing. Can we get that? |
| 03:46:33.18 | Unknown | Not until I see something in writing. the right. |
| 03:46:37.03 | Unknown | Right. Thank you. Thank you. |
| 03:46:37.94 | Unknown | Can we get In the meantime, I move that we put it on the priority calendar where it belongs because it's amorphous. And we can't have an amorphous committee. So I made a motion. And I think I'd give you a second. |
| 03:46:52.49 | Unknown | I'll give you a second. |
| 03:46:53.92 | Unknown | All right. Any more discussion about any of the items? |
| 03:46:58.54 | Unknown | I |
| 03:46:59.44 | Unknown | We're just simply moving them over to the priority calendar and they're not going away. |
| 03:47:02.88 | Unknown | Well, I have a comment, Mr. Mayor, on the agenda item analysis of impediments to fair housing. That was something that I repeatedly requested the Council to put on their agenda prior to the vote at CDBG. And so since that vote has come and gone and that's in the past now, you know, I don't, I'm not sure if we still need that. |
| 03:47:25.02 | Unknown | I'm not sure. We need that. Let's just, for the time being, let's just park it over here, and then we'll go at it again. |
| 03:47:32.34 | Unknown | Well, I have, Mr. Mayor, I have a broader motion that I would like, a substitute motion that I would like to make. I would like to continue this to our next meeting so I have the opportunity to look at this and give it some thought before we just scratch them off the agenda and move them to the priority calendar. I think this is the first time I've seen this. I want to see it in a packet and I want to be able to think about it before I have to make a split decision. |
| 03:47:35.70 | Unknown | Bye. |
| 03:47:35.82 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 03:47:35.84 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:47:35.97 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 03:47:53.32 | Matt Bouchard | Thank you. |
| 03:47:53.35 | Doug Lloyd | Mm-hmm. |
| 03:47:53.78 | Matt Bouchard | Thank you. |
| 03:48:01.93 | Doug Lloyd | I've seen this. |
| 03:48:02.97 | Unknown | I want to see. |
| 03:48:03.51 | Matt Bouchard | . Thank you. |
| 03:48:04.66 | Unknown | And I... |
| 03:48:09.03 | Unknown | make it split decisions. Okay. We've been looking at this agenda for the last two or three times. So… We haven't. I hear you. And I would like to – you need a second, and we'll vote on your motion. |
| 03:48:12.74 | Unknown | No. |
| 03:48:22.04 | Unknown | Oh, I second. Second one. Oh, my motion. Aye. OK. |
| 03:48:24.74 | Unknown | Okay, Debbie, would you call the roll on that motion, which is to continue? |
| 03:48:30.68 | Debbie | Council Member Pfeiffer. Thank you. |
| 03:48:32.00 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 03:48:32.22 | Debbie | Councilmember Ford. |
| 03:48:33.99 | Unknown | Yes. |
| 03:48:35.31 | Debbie | Councilmember Weiner. |
| 03:48:36.69 | Jeremy Graves | Oh, |
| 03:48:38.83 | Debbie | Vice Mayor Leom. |
| 03:48:40.94 | Unknown | These are all items that have been in this thing here, right? Yeah. So we've had them for a long time. A long time. Okay, no. |
| 03:48:43.86 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:48:47.20 | Debbie | Mayor Taylor. |
| 03:48:48.43 | Unknown | No. Not going to vote on the other motion, which is to move them to the priority calendar. He's moved and seconded, so call roll. |
| 03:48:57.78 | Unknown | Which one is just the... This is taking a little bit of... |
| 03:48:59.60 | Unknown | It's just taking more of these priorities so we can deal with them later. |
| 03:49:01.50 | Unknown | I know. |
| 03:49:01.88 | Unknown | Right. |
| 03:49:01.97 | Unknown | I'm not sure. |
| 03:49:02.10 | Unknown | so we can deal with it. Thank you. |
| 03:49:04.28 | Unknown | Excuse me, I would like to... have a little bit of an opportunity to see at least what they are. Report from California Antenna jurisdiction. That seems like something we should be hearing here in the city council chambers. policy for council liaison positions. That's something, well, I guess staff does need to work on it, but we need to decide... |
| 03:49:35.92 | Unknown | need to work on it, but... We can decide that when we decide the priority calendar. |
| 03:49:42.22 | Unknown | Okay, but the first one does not require staff time. |
| 03:49:45.57 | Adam Politzer | Thank you. I can just make sure, clarify, CA is for city attorney not California just for clarification. |
| 03:49:48.34 | Unknown | See you. |
| 03:49:50.75 | Joe Lemon | So, |
| 03:49:51.85 | Adam Politzer | Right. |
| 03:49:53.49 | Unknown | Oh, I see. Thank you. Staff time. That is. Okay. MLK financing structure, no smoking ordinance, Oversized bus issue. Well, that shouldn't be going to the priority list, for heaven's sakes. This is something that we should just say, yes, we want to deal with it, or no, we don't. |
| 03:50:21.08 | Unknown | It needs a staff report, it needs a study, it needs to be talked about. It just takes somebody's time. |
| 03:50:26.80 | Unknown | Text somebody's time. Thank you. |
| 03:50:27.81 | Unknown | Yes. |
| 03:50:28.03 | Unknown | Well, what are we going to have on our agenda if you remove all these? We've got plenty. Mr. Mayor. Well, where's the list? |
| 03:50:28.52 | Unknown | But what are we going to have on? |
| 03:50:34.56 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:50:34.58 | Unknown | All right. |
| 03:50:34.59 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 03:50:34.71 | Unknown | Yes, Jermaine. |
| 03:50:35.03 | Unknown | Mayor. |
| 03:50:35.42 | Unknown | Well, |
| 03:50:35.51 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:50:35.66 | Unknown | Where's the list? |
| 03:50:36.42 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:50:37.02 | Unknown | Mr. Mayor. |
| 03:50:37.61 | Unknown | The list will come to you the following week, as it always does. |
| 03:50:42.00 | Unknown | Well, I'm looking at the list for what we're going to be discussing in advance. |
| 03:50:46.36 | Unknown | We were discussing in advance. |
| 03:50:48.01 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:50:48.03 | Unknown | We'll be right back. |
| 03:50:48.25 | Unknown | Can I request you go back to Rosenberg's rules where you get recognized? |
| 03:50:48.35 | Unknown | Can I request to go back to rules were You get a minute and do you want a minute to speak? Are you done? |
| 03:50:52.38 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:50:56.43 | Unknown | I do want a minute to speak. Thank you. Would you please give her a minute to speak? |
| 03:50:58.22 | Unknown | Thank you. you |
| 03:51:01.86 | Unknown | I think that before we put these on the priority list, council should address them and decide whether they want to move forward or not with them. Why stick all of these on a priority list and have to deal with them then? To me, it just makes sense that we take these and deal with them quickly. Anyway. It's a more... |
| 03:51:33.61 | Unknown | There's a motion on the floor and a second. |
| 03:51:37.05 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:51:37.07 | Unknown | listening. I had requested an opportunity to speak. May I have one minute? Thank you very much. |
| 03:51:42.55 | Unknown | Amen. |
| 03:51:47.16 | Unknown | So I noticed that, you know, in the back of these two-inch thick packets we get, we do have six-month planning agendas, four pages, and it's not something we refer to. And as you know, we forgot about, I mean, some council members did not recollect the the appointment of even the fact that we voted on establishing a bicycle committee. So I echo Councilmember Ford's concerns with respect that, you know, My... before I vote to remove agenda items, I would like to at least do my own homework. It does not necessarily require staff time. I can search through this and identify You know, where the Genesis is, the Arts Commission is something that still I've been really pushing for. I know we have people who have applied. |
| 03:52:49.31 | Unknown | I have the camera's up. I'd like to call the question and the vote. |
| 03:52:53.09 | Unknown | Before you do, just let me take my one minute. So, I mean, the whole point here is it gets back to... There's only so much time and there's only so much staff time. And the reason for having a priority calendar is it sets the priorities for the next year And unless it's an emergency situation or something that has to be dealt with in a very rapid fashion or doesn't require additional money or staff time, It should either go into a discussion about removing something from the priority calendar to replace it with something. or add it to the next discussion of the priority calendar. Otherwise, your priority calendar means nothing because you just displace it by whatever you decide is the issue of the day. So I think that it is appropriate to put these into discussion of the priority calendar since none of them are what I would call an emergency situation at the moment. and we need to reallocate their priority. We're not dismissing them as concepts, but we're just going to discuss them in the context of the whole priority. |
| 03:53:50.31 | Unknown | We'll discuss it. |
| 03:53:50.73 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:53:53.26 | Unknown | Well, Mr. Mayor. In accordance with Rosenberg's rules, we have a minute. I would say that the issue of whether or not we move them is not the main issue. |
| 03:53:58.85 | Unknown | I have a minute. |
| 03:54:00.20 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 03:54:00.23 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:54:10.16 | Unknown | I, for one, am really tired of getting last-minute papers at the end of a meeting. This happened with the America's Cup appointment, it happened with other issues where I'm handed something at the very end of the meeting when I am very tired and ask for a decision. items like this, and it's a process matter, included in our packet. So we at least have a chance to look and see what they are. I mean, I'm so tired right now, considering we had our last meeting yesterday, that I'm, you know, I'm really not focused on this. So that's why I'm asking for a continuance. Mr. Mayor? |
| 03:54:44.83 | Matt Bouchard | We had our |
| 03:54:56.68 | Unknown | to be here. |
| 03:54:56.93 | Unknown | They did wait. |
| 03:54:59.38 | Unknown | All right. |
| 03:54:59.60 | Unknown | you |
| 03:54:59.67 | Unknown | I move for the vote. |
| 03:55:00.07 | Unknown | Thank you. Bye. |
| 03:55:01.05 | Unknown | I think it's a good thing. |
| 03:55:01.37 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:55:01.39 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:55:01.41 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:55:01.44 | Unknown | We're just going back and forth, and this information that you are looking at is in your packet. I just reorganized it. There's no change. Every single item on that sheet is in this packet. |
| 03:55:02.08 | Unknown | Bye. |
| 03:55:02.13 | Unknown | from back and forth. |
| 03:55:03.48 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:55:03.50 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:55:03.53 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 03:55:16.90 | Unknown | I don't see. |
| 03:55:18.13 | Unknown | Every single item on that sheet is in the same. |
| 03:55:20.19 | Unknown | Well, I didn't know that we were going to be discussing this tonight. |
| 03:55:23.65 | Unknown | It's on the future agenda. It's on the agenda for the council tonight. Well, then where is the... |
| 03:55:28.29 | Unknown | Well then where is the... |
| 03:55:30.31 | Unknown | Please, please. |
| 03:55:31.44 | Unknown | Thank you. If that's the case, Where is our endorsement of Governor Brown's pension policy. I don't see that in the- |
| 03:55:45.52 | Unknown | I don't see that in here. Right here, in the back of the packet, 7B, page 3, all the list of these items. Every single item on this list, unless I made a mistake, is on that list. |
| 03:55:57.35 | Unknown | No, it's not. I don't see it anywhere on this list. That's what I'm saying. |
| 03:56:00.60 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 03:56:00.72 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:56:00.91 | Doug Lloyd | What did I say? |
| 03:56:01.90 | Unknown | Thank you. I'll take a vote on that. Yeah, we probably want you to do that. Thank you. |
| 03:56:07.27 | Unknown | We voted to put it on a future agenda in February. |
| 03:56:09.83 | Mary Wagner | in February. It was voted for a specific date. Wait, wait, wait. |
| 03:56:12.74 | Unknown | Wait, wait, wait. |
| 03:56:14.68 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:56:15.91 | Unknown | Okay, I see what's going on here. And fine. There's nothing going on. Mary, would you clarify? |
| 03:56:19.76 | Mary Wagner | Bye. |
| 03:56:19.79 | Unknown | Bye. |
| 03:56:19.82 | Mary Wagner | Bye. |
| 03:56:19.86 | Unknown | Nothing. |
| 03:56:20.55 | Unknown | Mary, would you clarify? |
| 03:56:25.98 | Unknown | There was a date, as I recall. |
| 03:56:27.30 | Adam Politzer | I recall. |
| 03:56:28.26 | Unknown | Why don't we bring this to a vote to the public? |
| 03:56:31.60 | Adam Politzer | Mr. Mayor, if I may. I will agree with one thing that's stated there, that when we get to this hour we seem to fall apart. So if everyone can just hold tight and try to make it through. The item for the endorsing the governor's 12-point plan was there was a lot of discussion as a future agenda item. And as you recall, I wouldn't commit to a specific date what i committed to was bringing it back with charlie's presentation which is what we did when john bartell was here and and john bartell was asked by members of the council questions about the 12-point plan and there was either no action or no motion made to endorse the governor's plan at that time or discussion to defer it to some date uncertain but from my memory there was no consensus to add on the future agenda item when it was brought up because as you also recall we got into more of a discussion about bringing John Bartel back or some other folks to come and do training or other one-on-one type of workshops. So that item from the staff's perspective was addressed when John Bartell was here and when Charlie was here to talk about the plan and questions were asked of that. If I may, if I can just help a little bit here. Some of these items may get shifted to the priority calendar list for consideration, but remember this, |
| 03:58:00.03 | Unknown | Bye. Well, |
| 03:58:13.07 | Adam Politzer | items that have the community doing The work. and some of those are controversial like the community garden can come forward sooner than the priority calendar has them scheduled. And one that is on here that I think all of you are familiar to is the Ice House Plaza, which Paul Leffenweil is working on, and they're going to come forward with their proposal at a date when they're ready. There are, there are other items on here that will fall into that category that will come forward in their own speed. The no smoking ordinance the county has said will do all the work And so we're allowing them to do all the work and we have given minimal staff time to that so it may come forward prior to the next priority calendar setting. But I understand that the mayor is attempting to do and I'd like to point out for clarification, it was agendized. It says it here under future agenda items. And it says, including council discussion on categorizing the current list. The current list is included. It's on the agenda. The mayor has brought forward his recommendation Thank you. including council discussion on categorizing the current list. The current list is included. It's on the agenda. The mayor has brought forward his recommendation. And other than the items that were voted on to be removed, everything else stays on but put into another category. And I would recommend that you folks consider that fight for another day rather than today. |
| 03:59:50.59 | Unknown | Mr. Mayor, may I speak? Yes. My one minute? Thank you. |
| 03:59:53.60 | Adam Politzer | Yes. |
| 03:59:55.84 | Unknown | Mary, I have a question regarding the Brown Act. I know the Brown Act requires us to agendize items. Does it also have a requirement to include certain, you know, transparency materials related to that agenda item? So the fact that the public doesn't have this list is not breaking the Brown Act. The list is in your packet. No, I understand it's in the packet, but it does not have an agenda number on it. It's kind of... Just like... |
| 04:00:31.14 | Mary Wagner | Just like when someone comes up to the dais and speaks to you and hands you a piece of paper, we keep it as part of the record of the proceedings? So that's not, the question you asked me is, Is it a violation of the Brown Act? Or is there a... provision in the Brown Act that requires information to be distributed at a certain time. And it does not. So this, as Debbie indicated, it's basically late mail. Thank you. |
| 04:00:57.03 | Doug Lloyd | Sorry. |
| 04:00:57.37 | Mary Wagner | Sorry. |
| 04:00:58.50 | Unknown | It's the same items just in different order. |
| 04:01:02.56 | Mary Wagner | But what we do when anyone gives the council information as part of a packet, when somebody makes a presentation and uses a PowerPoint that isn't staff's PowerPoint, we keep it. It's part of the permanent record of the council's proceedings. |
| 04:01:16.30 | Unknown | Yes. OK, can we move this along? Mr. Mayor, I have one more thing to say. I object to the process, and I've objected to this before, when we have not had. |
| 04:01:16.67 | Mary Wagner | Okay, can we move this along? Mr. Mayor, I have a question. |
| 04:01:29.80 | Unknown | all the information that we're going to be looking at in our packet. And I continue to object to that process, and this is another example. So, I mean, you can vote on it, whatever, but I have to abstain because I think this is a wrong way to run the meeting and certainly the wrong way to present it. |
| 04:01:56.04 | Unknown | and certainly the wrong way to present it. You're welcome to your opinion, but for the record, every item on the handout sheet. Every single item on the handout sheet is on page 7B |
| 04:02:09.58 | Unknown | I had asked before, Mr. Mayor, that we have the time to think about this and decide which one should stay on the agenda, which one should go on the priority. That's your request. |
| 04:02:12.14 | Unknown | It was. |
| 04:02:18.45 | Unknown | Thank you. That's your request, and we're going to vote in a different way. |
| 04:02:22.53 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:02:22.57 | Unknown | Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor, I would like one minute, please. |
| 04:02:26.97 | Unknown | For the purpose of? |
| 04:02:27.55 | Unknown | For the record. For the record. It's very important because |
| 04:02:29.72 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 04:02:32.17 | Unknown | We have just heard that the six-month agenda planning, which is four pages long in the back, has every item on what Mayor Kelly has passed out. |
| 04:02:41.99 | Unknown | That's not correct. That's an incorrect statement. You just made an incorrect statement. |
| 04:02:43.27 | Unknown | Incorrections. |
| 04:02:46.33 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:02:46.36 | Unknown | I just- |
| 04:02:46.38 | Unknown | I said that everything on the sheet that I passed out is on page 7B3. |
| 04:02:52.57 | Unknown | Okay. |
| 04:02:53.43 | Unknown | Thank you, Mr. Mayor. |
| 04:02:53.72 | Unknown | Thank you, Mr. Mayor. 7B3. And 7B3 is a list of multiple things, and everything that is on 7B3 is not necessarily listed on the future agenda items. |
| 04:03:10.83 | Unknown | That is not correct. |
| 04:03:11.35 | Unknown | Correct. You're saying that everything on 7B3 is exactly what is on the future agenda item document you just handed out? |
| 04:03:21.51 | Unknown | I think he said that everything that's here is there. That's correct. OK. |
| 04:03:25.93 | Unknown | Okay, yes, no, it's true that everything on the page you handed out is on 7B-3, but it's not true that everything on 7B-3 is on the document you handed out. And that's my point. Because, yes, because what you have handed out, Mr. Mayor, is a cherry-picked list of agenda, future agenda items that is not clear to the public what we are discussing. And I think it is unprecedented. I think it lacks transparency. I would have liked to have a heads up beforehand. And that is my sentiment. I'm sorry. That is how I feel. |
| 04:03:59.87 | Unknown | Thank you. It may be your sentiment, but it's not the facts. So I would like to vote. Excuse me. We'll pass this back in. Point of order. We'll pass this back in, and I will go down on this list, and we'll vote on every one of these individually, and then we will not have a problem with the handout. |
| 04:04:06.53 | Unknown | We're going to pass this decade. |
| 04:04:15.82 | Unknown | Mary, do you have a problem with his hand? Do you have a problem with this handout? |
| 04:04:20.84 | Unknown | You have a problem. |
| 04:04:21.62 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:04:22.95 | Unknown | We have a problem. We're going to spend this week. |
| 04:04:23.83 | Unknown | I think this council has a problem. We need to save this for another day. |
| 04:04:27.44 | Unknown | We'll be right back. |
| 04:04:27.48 | Adam Kravatsky | Thank you. |
| 04:04:27.51 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 04:04:27.58 | Unknown | Bye. |
| 04:04:29.74 | Unknown | The council needs to do its business, and we have more business to do tonight, so I want to do the business of the council. And the council needs to vote on the |
| 04:04:33.79 | Unknown | So |
| 04:04:34.21 | Jeremy Graves | Thank you. |
| 04:04:34.24 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:04:34.28 | Jeremy Graves | Thank you. |
| 04:04:41.70 | Unknown | the agenda because it's gotten cumbersome and heavy. And I have proposed a way to change that. And I propose you continue it. I propose. When we're all fresh. You want to make a motion, we'll vote on your continuous motion. We already did. I thought I did. You were defeated. |
| 04:04:50.46 | Unknown | Oh, Fred. |
| 04:04:51.08 | Doug Lloyd | I'm going to go. |
| 04:04:51.10 | Unknown | . |
| 04:04:54.59 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:04:54.61 | Doug Lloyd | I thought I used it. |
| 04:04:55.10 | Unknown | I did. |
| 04:04:55.42 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 04:04:56.25 | Unknown | So when you're defeated, you move on. |
| 04:04:56.33 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 04:04:56.35 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 04:04:56.57 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. |
| 04:04:58.86 | Unknown | Do you? |
| 04:04:59.24 | Unknown | No. If the process is, yes, you do that, Mr. Mayor. Well, that's what I'd like to do. Okay, well, do it. Okay, I'd like to call the question. |
| 04:05:04.42 | Unknown | Okay. I would like to call the question on the floor, which was to move these items from the agenda to the priority calendar. They will be just as transparent on the priority calendar as they are on the agenda calendar. |
| 04:05:23.01 | Unknown | Okay? |
| 04:05:23.37 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. Debbie, would you call the roll? |
| 04:05:26.76 | Debbie | Council Member Fyther. |
| 04:05:28.13 | Unknown | No. |
| 04:05:28.51 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:05:29.51 | Debbie | Councilmember Ford. |
| 04:05:30.86 | Unknown | It's the same. |
| 04:05:34.71 | Debbie | Councilmember Weiner. |
| 04:05:35.79 | Unknown | Yes. |
| 04:05:36.16 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:05:37.48 | Debbie | Vice Mayor Leona. |
| 04:05:38.57 | Unknown | Yes. |
| 04:05:39.97 | Debbie | Mayor Kelly. |
| 04:05:40.97 | Unknown | Yes. Now we'll move to the next item, which is Uh, Council member committee reports. Does anybody have a committee report to give? Any committee reports? Seeing none, we'll move to the next item. The mayor's appointments, the boards, commissions, liaisons, and so on. I am asking Debbie tonight to start a recruitment for the Disaster Committee. We need at least one person on the Disaster Committee, perhaps as many as two or three. |
| 04:06:15.88 | Unknown | Thank you. further release of the water. |
| 04:06:17.40 | Unknown | Yeah, there's a couple termed out, too, so we can't get any. Historic Landmarks Board, we have one expired and one vacant, so we need a recruit for those positions. Parks and Rec, we have one need there. Planning Commission, we have none, but we need to consider that the next time and make the appointments or not. Sustainability, we need three people. |
| 04:06:19.41 | Unknown | so if we can't get any... |
| 04:06:51.20 | Unknown | And it's the same problem of terms. In the tree committee, we need one. |
| 04:06:57.92 | Unknown | Actually, three, I believe, have expired, Mr. Mayor. Thank you. |
| 04:07:01.44 | Unknown | in the tree committee? |
| 04:07:02.03 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:07:02.15 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 04:07:02.25 | Unknown | you. Thank you. Thank you. |
| 04:07:02.86 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:07:03.03 | Unknown | I only have one. |
| 04:07:04.74 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:07:05.19 | Unknown | There were, last time I looked there were three. |
| 04:07:05.58 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:07:09.04 | Unknown | Okay, well then I'll, I'll look again. Yeah. So we'll recruit from the tree committee just in general. Yeah. Get all you can. |
| 04:07:17.10 | Doug Lloyd | Yeah. |
| 04:07:19.15 | Unknown | Um... And I'm going to recommend that three committees remain dormant. And we can, on this matter, we can agendize this and talk about it next time. Arts Commission, I cannot find a purpose for the Art Commission. Artists I talk to tell me that they don't have a vision of what the Art Commission should do. Secondly, the Citizens Advisory Review Board on police matters is only supposed to meet when it has something to meet about and there's currently nothing to meet about. So I propose we make that committee dormant and re-energize it at a time when we have a police matter to be heard. And then the underground committee has no particular purpose at the moment. There are no undergrounding projects. And so I would like to leave that committee dormant. We can, again, talk about this in the next... We'll talk about it next time. Thank you. |
| 04:08:13.16 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:08:15.07 | Unknown | Can I ask that we |
| 04:08:16.42 | Unknown | if we're going to advertise for all these, if you advertise for the Planning Commission, since even though they're not termed out, you have people whose terms have run and they need reappointment, that we should just advertise for them. |
| 04:08:16.47 | Unknown | you |
| 04:08:32.05 | Unknown | Sounds good. |
| 04:08:32.67 | Jeremy Graves | Thank you. |
| 04:08:32.75 | Unknown | Okay. Any public comment on this? Anything? No? Seeing none. Okay. All right. Any other reports of significance from anyone? All right, then I'll entertain a motion to adjourn. |
| 04:08:49.11 | Unknown | I move to adjourn. |
| 04:08:51.01 | Unknown | Thank you. Okay. All in favor? Aye. Aye. And that we agree. |
| 04:08:53.51 | Unknown | Aye. |
| 04:08:54.96 | Doug Lloyd | We agree. |
| 04:08:55.62 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:08:55.67 | Doug Lloyd | Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. |