| Time | Speaker | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:19.13 | Ray Withy | Okay. Okay. |
| 00:00:20.01 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:00:23.44 | Ray Withy | Good evening and welcome to the February 12, 2013 meeting. Let me catch up on this. Please have a roll call. |
| 00:00:40.13 | Unknown | Councilmember Pfeiffer? |
| 00:00:41.42 | Unknown | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 00:00:42.22 | Unknown | Councilmember Theodorus? Present. Councilmember Withey? |
| 00:00:43.57 | Ray Withy | Present. |
| 00:00:44.97 | Unknown | Mayor Weiner. |
| 00:00:45.00 | Ray Withy | here. present. At this time here, the pleasure of allegiance, Susan Frank. Are you in the house? Would you lead us with the pledge, please? |
| 00:00:57.09 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:00:58.22 | Ray Withy | I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you, Susan. |
| 00:01:18.69 | Ray Withy | Mm-hmm. We met in a closed session, and there was really a list of a lot of legal items that we had, and a lot of that was bringing it up to date. So as you see, there were seven items, and most of them were just giving us information. So as these litigation unfolds, we'll bring you more of an update on it. And with that, is there any public comment on any of the closed session items? |
| 00:01:55.39 | Mary Wagner | And one quick correction, Mr. Mayor, there were eight. |
| 00:01:58.26 | Ray Withy | Nice. in. |
| 00:02:03.03 | Ray Withy | . Yeah, okay. Eight items. |
| 00:02:07.98 | Unknown | . |
| 00:02:08.30 | Ray Withy | Thank you. Thank you. All right. I'd like to at this time here move for the approval of the agenda. |
| 00:02:17.02 | Thomas Theodores | So moved. |
| 00:02:17.81 | Ray Withy | Thank you. stuff is |
| 00:02:20.40 | Thomas Theodores | Second? |
| 00:02:20.77 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 00:02:21.17 | Ray Withy | Okay, all in favor? Aye. Opposed? Okay, thank you. At this time here, |
| 00:02:22.74 | Thomas Theodores | All right. |
| 00:02:27.59 | Ray Withy | I'd like to have a presentation. on an update from the Sausalito Marin City School Superintendent, Valerie Pitts. You're on. E-ho. |
| 00:02:48.00 | Valerie Pitts | House President. Bless you, liar. and current president, Bill Ziegler, who I'm sure you all know. And I see a lot of familiar faces in the audience, so forgive me for those of you who have seen this already. But I decided to come here. I've been here a couple of times in the past year and a half, and I haven't really been able to do a presentation for you. So this is really not a long one. It's about 10 slides. And I want to talk to you particularly just about what's been going on in the past year and a half. You know a lot, you read the newspaper, you understand that there have been some recent decisions made. But I want to kind of trace that a little bit about what the work the district's been doing, THE PASS. |
| 00:03:24.03 | Valerie Pitts | year and a half so that you can understand how we're moving forward and how we are making sure that we have a very deliberate path towards excellence. I'm going to have to do two things at once. Let's just hold the microphone and click forward here. About a year and a half ago, our Board of Trustees did start working very, very hard on a vision statement? What was it that we really wanted to see for all of our students in the Sausalito Marin City School District? And so you'll see here that it really is our hope that all of our children are educated for a career and beyond, that they have a world-class education, and they're really prepared for what lies after the K-12 system. and that we're doing that by fostering what we call 21st century skills. collaboration, creativity, inquiry, problem solving, and building those strengths in our children so that they can move forward and have mutual trust and respect for one another, and mutual and respect for what they're entering as young adults when they leave our system. So how do we do that? We want to make sure that we academically and socially prepare all of our students for success at each grade level and in high school. So we don't stop at the eighth grade. We work with our partner, Tamil Nadu High School District, so that we're all making sure that our kids have a culturally responsive learning environment and they can do the very best they can and that we want to hold ourselves accountable for that and for that progress. Most districts have a set of goals or strategic priorities. These look very similar. There are a few unique characteristics here. We want to make sure that our students are healthy, and have positive learning environments and we want to make sure that they all reach high levels of achievement. And all means all and each and every one. We have to make sure that we have fiscal integrity. We want to make sure that we are retaining only the finest staff and that we are able to retain those staff and that we inspire them to become the best professionals that they could be. And then we want to make sure that we're continuing to engage the community. I'm here tonight to engage you in what our path to excellence is. We currently have three schools. As you know, Bayside Elementary School and Willow Creek Academy occupy the same campus. Bayside has about 70 students. Willow Creek is at about 300 now. Could be plus or minus one or two and growing. And MLK over in Marin City has 50 students. And this is one of the things that we've had to look closely at the past year and a half. In fact, we've been looking closely at this for probably the last decade in the Sausalito Marin City School District. What does this mean? How do we make it better? How do we make it really work for our kids? So a look at the enrollment history and projections. So ironically, Bayside Elementary School and MLK are declining a little bit, but if you look at what happens across the country, that isn't unusual. So we're seeing some students coming back into our school district here in Sausalito, coming to Willow Creek Academy. Some of them are going to Bayside, some of them are going to MLK. Willow Creek Academy is where this growth is coming from and projected to continue to come from. So the good news is we have a growing enrollment district. The challenging news is we have a growing enrollment district. And we have to make sure that whatever we do, into consideration those projections. So I want to call to your attention here something that's received a little bit of press in the past few months. We put together an action team about a year ago. in the district predominantly made up of community members that we wanted to engage in Marin City in order to make sure that we were meeting the needs of all of our students. That team has put together a set of recommendations about the curriculum, about the program, about what a comprehensive education looks like for our students, that team did not make a recommendation to close the school or to put the schools together. So I just want to be really clear that this team was really instrumental |
| 00:07:15.47 | Valerie Pitts | that's the first time. |
| 00:07:32.94 | Valerie Pitts | in having a conversation with us about what would work for our kids. So that is known as the action team. We hope to be able to continue with so that we make sure that we can stay accountable to the kinds of things that we know will make a difference for our kids in learning. So what do we need to do in terms of the district learning structure? We need to make sure that we're creating and implementing a comprehensive educational program and guaranteed viable curriculum K-8. Willow Creek is a K-8. They have a good program. There's a reason they are a K-8. There's a lot of research behind the K-8 model, and I don't need to stand up here right now and espouse what that is. I'm an educator and have looked a lot at the research. There's a lot of really solid things about a K-8. We can see that demonstrated at Willow Creek. So we have three schools. We need two schools. We don't have enough enrollment in the district to have three schools and to be sustainable or have integrity as an educational program over time with that kind of an enrollment. So when you look at what's going to be best for the kids, it becomes looking at how to leverage those things and how to leverage enrollment and leverage your staff and leverage your programs to be able to provide the very best program that you can for kids. It becomes very difficult. economies of scale, articulation of curriculum, to have a good program at a school of 50 and a school of 70 as you can at a school of 120. Those are the facts, and that's what the research tells us. So we have three schools. We need two schools. But that brings with it challenges. Not quite a year ago, I was up in front of you talking about, we were thinking about a school bond. A school bond is in our future. A facilities bond is in the future of this district. We have needs in the district relative to upkeep of facilities and relative to making sure that we can house all of our students. We didn't put a bond on last November's ballot for several reasons. Primarily, we need to get the community ready for that. But we do have a need to have complete schools at both campuses. And MLK is a beautiful campus. It needs a few more. It's got a very old facility that doesn't work that our preschools are in. And in order to make that work, that campus work, we need to add a few more classrooms. So that's what the district has embarked in doing, making the decision to combine the Bayside campus with the Martin Luther King campus in order to get the best program in place for students. That brings with it the bottom challenge here. We know that, we're aware of it, and we've actually had that in front of us for quite some time in the school district. That isn't news to those of you that have been here much longer than, well actually have been here for a long time because I was raised in Marin County. It has been a problem that has been pervasive for many, many years. and we need to deal with it. Combining the schools actually in many ways helps us deal with that because we can leverage our programs and our opportunities and get the kids out on field trips and have activities that just make more sense when you have 120 kids than they make sense when you only have 50. kids. So those are the things that we are challenged with and that we understand and that we know that we need to continue to work on in our community. No school district goes forever with one structure. We all know that. We've all, we've seen a lot of growth in all of Marin County. Certainly our next door neighbors up in Larchbrook, Corte Madera and Reed School District, we are all growing. So we are going to have to stay responsive to that for sure. So this isn't the last structure you will ever see. It's not the first time you've seen this structure in Sausalito Marin City School District. But we want to make sure that all of our campuses accommodate enrollment. that they're safe and fully modernized, that they're flexible, so that we can have different configurations as our enrollment requires us to have. and that support the comprehensive educational program. We have kids in Sausalito right now who go to MLK. That's surprising, but that does happen. I'd invite any of you at any time to come over and see what's happening at MLK. We have some really great things happening there. as we have great things happening at Bayside, as those great things will continue to happen when the program becomes a K-8, and we are also committed to continuing to work on the things that we can partner with Willow Creek on. A fine example of that is a conversation I had today with someone who's working on developing ambassadors for the America's Cup, I know Denise Sudo is gonna represent Martin Luther King Academy helping us help get our kids involved, and we hope to be able to partner with Willow Creek Academy on those activities as well. So what does this pre-K-8 program look like? Yes, we have preschools over at MLK, so it'll be a pre-K-8 program. These are all of the things that we hope to be able to put into place. These are the components of the comprehensive educational program that our students need to be successful. They aren't necessarily ideas that we've only had here in Sausalito Marin City. We've looked at other districts. We've looked across the Bay. We've looked across the nation at what might work. and what might be really viable. for our program. And with the help of the action team that I described earlier, these are the things that we believe we can put into place at the pre-K-8 program. So we already have several of these things in place, by the way. We do enjoy small class sizes. We have before and after school programs for extending learning for our students. We have preschools. We're working on a case management system. We have music, art, technology. We're working on providing our teachers with professional development so that they can get better at teaching our kids how to Um, be inquirers and be problem solvers and be good thinkers. We also know that our families need services. So we're working really closely, not only with the services that are located in Marin City, but with other county programs and county agencies that have services that can be better delivered and managed through our programs at the school. So we're really trying to branch out and make sure that we're involving those critical partners so that our families and students can get the services that they need. So what is our desired future? We want to make sure that both programs are sustainable for all of the children and families in 94965, Um, We want all of our campuses to have productive learning environments and learning communities. We want to be able to share. We want to be able to get our kids out into other parts of the community. so that they can have that rich community experience and experience what it's like to live in Marin and what it's like to live in an integrated setting. We really want to make sure that all of our kids get that. We have board commitment. We've been discussing what equity is. We want to make sure that we have fiscal integrity as a school district. And we absolutely know that we need to continue to plan long range. It doesn't stop here. There is more planning. and there are more things and more issues that we are faced with in the next coming years, in particular in relation to what's happening with the state of California with education funding. our enrollment projections and how that all looks with respect to being able to maintain our programs and maintain fiscal integrity in support of those programs. So with that, I would ask if you have any questions. |
| 00:15:39.31 | Adam Politzer | Just ask Valerie to give us a little bit more information. Thank you very much, Valerie, and to the board members that are here that were able to join us. Can you talk a little bit about the action the board took and then the mechanics for this to actually now become a reality? So I think, you know, that there's been action taken and there is a goal and it would be helpful, I think, for us to understand what happens going forward. |
| 00:16:04.69 | Valerie Pitts | Okay, so the board took action to add four additional classrooms to the Martin Luther King Academy. Martin Luther King Academy has six classrooms right now. The old building over there has another four. The old building is no longer code compliant, so we're taking the old building down and putting up four new classrooms. We're repurposing some of the existing portables that we have for some of our extracurricular spaces, our afterschool programs. The preschools will remain on the campus. So what happens is that those four classrooms need to be constructed, so the district approved moving forward with a certificate of participation, and we did very well in that. We were able to sell those and have the money that we need in order to finish the campus over there and make it beautiful for housing our K8 student body population. So that project will take place this summer. That project will be finished this summer. And our K8 program will open in September of 2013. |
| 00:17:12.95 | Unknown | Okay. you Linda? |
| 00:17:17.32 | Thomas Theodores | I just have a follow-up question. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. So the facilities you just mentioned, the four classrooms, are those temporary type of, or they're permanent? They're permanent. |
| 00:17:29.27 | Valerie Pitts | They're permanent. They're constructed modularly. |
| 00:17:33.42 | Thomas Theodores | Oh, okay, but they're permanent. They're not temporary permanent. Okay, and my other question was, in the future, if Marin City students want to attend Willow Creek, |
| 00:17:34.97 | Valerie Pitts | They're permanent. a minute. |
| 00:17:47.54 | Thomas Theodores | Will there be some form of public transportation to help them you know, get to Willow Creek or something like this. |
| 00:17:55.04 | Valerie Pitts | or |
| 00:17:56.10 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 00:17:56.12 | Valerie Pitts | Do you know that there are more Marin City students that attend Willow Creek than there are Marin City students that attend Bayside and MLK? |
| 00:18:02.41 | Thomas Theodores | No, I don't know the demographic at all. |
| 00:18:04.96 | Valerie Pitts | They are. Well, it may be close. I may not actually. So 39% of Willow Creek's, or maybe it's the 42% of Willow Creek's population is from Rensi. And so there's lots of carpooling opportunities, I'm sure. They get there right now. They do not ride the bus. Some of them ride the bus home in the afternoon. But between us, between the after-school programs and the vans that Bridge the Gap provide, Community Action in Marin. provide, we can get kids back over there. we successfully do get kids back over to Marin City, even the Willow Creek kids right now. |
| 00:18:45.98 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 00:18:46.30 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:18:46.37 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 00:18:46.40 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:18:46.69 | Thomas Theodores | I'm going to go. |
| 00:18:50.34 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you for your presentation. And the question I have, how is this being received by the families and by the communities, and do you see, has there been any sort of opposition to the Board's plan? |
| 00:19:02.57 | Valerie Pitts | There's always opposition when you close the school. |
| 00:19:05.12 | Thomas Theodores | Can you tell us a little details on who and how? |
| 00:19:06.91 | Valerie Pitts | Yeah, I think probably most of the opposition comes from a fear of addressing racial segregation and isolation. There is no doubt about that. We need to make sure that we don't have kids in Marin City all day in Marin City, and actually, and we need to make sure that our students are integrated. And quite frankly, we need to do a better job than we've been doing for the past 10 years on that. between Bayside and MLK. So this whole issue of, you know, taking the Bayside kids off of Sausalito. I mean, I understand it's huge. Kids aren't going to come to Sausalito, certain kids aren't going to be able to come to Sausalito for school. But if we make sure that we get our kids out in field trips, participating in the kind of program that I just spoke to you about, that someone came to me and said, do you're Do the MLK students want to participate in these America Cup activities through an ambassador program? I'm not sure what that's called, but I just learned about it today. We need to do more of that. We have kids right now who You know, we have sports teams, so we go out and we play at other schools. Like us on Facebook. go on to Facebook and see what's up. at MLK and Bayside. You will see pictures there of the kids out and about doing things. This afternoon, I watched a van load up, and they went over to TJ's CrossFit in Mill Valley. of kids from MLK as part of our extended learning programs. So things are happening. at MLK and we want to make sure that they continue to happen. But I think that the fears come from the loss of a school. And those are things that we need to address as we move forward in creating our new school. Does that answer your question? Thank you. Okay. Is there something that you think's out there that I have addressed? |
| 00:21:02.59 | Thomas Theodores | Well, I would probably, for example, I mean, do you anticipate any formal or legal opposition? And do you anticipate that the board's plan will be implemented on time? And has there been any formal opposition at this point? |
| 00:21:22.92 | Valerie Pitts | Well, the opposition comes when you hear public input in response to whether or not we anticipate legal opposition. I do not anticipate legal opposition. Do we need to continue to make sure that we address racial segregation and isolation? Absolutely. The whole district needs to make sure of that. Thank you. |
| 00:21:40.23 | Ray Withy | AND IT'S A GREAT |
| 00:21:40.25 | Valerie Pitts | And yes, it will be done by September of 2013. |
| 00:21:44.03 | Ray Withy | Of the 50 and the 70, All right. How many of them are minorities? What percentage do you know? |
| 00:21:51.42 | Valerie Pitts | Um, 98%. are minorities. but they're not all African American. We have mixed demographics. |
| 00:21:58.32 | Ray Withy | Yeah, I agree. That's why I said minorities. |
| 00:22:00.87 | Valerie Pitts | Right. |
| 00:22:02.27 | Ray Withy | And at Willow Creek, |
| 00:22:04.45 | Valerie Pitts | Willow Creek is, help me out here, 23% or 25% white. and the rest is minority. It may be 30, 30, 30. Little Creek has a very nice one. |
| 00:22:16.62 | Ray Withy | Nice one. |
| 00:22:17.15 | Valerie Pitts | you Yeah. |
| 00:22:18.69 | Ray Withy | I hope you actively, as you indicated, to integrate these students. I think it's very important that we've come a long way in this country. Thank you. |
| 00:22:31.84 | Valerie Pitts | Yes, we are. |
| 00:22:31.85 | Ray Withy | As far as making sure that minorities have the opportunity to someday become president. So the idea is that I hope this doesn't make us take a step backwards on this program. It's very important. Marin City has a long history. uh... A lot of people from Louisiana that came up here during World War II. And they worked very hard in that. to make our country even better. So I hope that their education is still up there in the forefront. |
| 00:23:14.68 | Valerie Pitts | It's in my forefront. Thank you. |
| 00:23:16.29 | Ray Withy | Okay. |
| 00:23:17.48 | Adam Politzer | Mr. Mayor, can I just ask Ms. Fitz to answer one more question that might be helpful for any of our listeners at home? The conclusion of we don't need three schools but two. What about one school? and what are the challenges, if any, to go to one school. |
| 00:23:38.66 | Valerie Pitts | So that's why I say we absolutely recognize that we need to do long range planning. I wouldn't stand up here and say that that isn't in the future, but all of those things are things that need to be planned for and need to be thoughtfully planned for. And certainly if you are up at 700 kids, you probably wouldn't want one school. So you have to look at a lot of different things when you plan long range. And those are the things that we're committed to looking at. So when you say, why can't we have one school right now? Primarily because we have enrollment growth. And so we need to make sure that we are... And we have a school And it is a vibrant school. There are great things that are happening there. So your question is a good one and we're committed to doing long range planning to really look at when does the enrollment stabilize, what does that look like, and what's best for the district. |
| 00:24:44.09 | Unknown | Thank you very much for having me. Sorry I took up so much of your time. |
| 00:24:45.00 | Ray Withy | Yeah. No, and I hope that very soon you keep on coming here and giving us an update on what's going on. |
| 00:24:53.87 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:24:53.89 | Valerie Pitts | Thank you. |
| 00:24:54.40 | Ray Withy | Okay, thank you. |
| 00:25:00.84 | Ray Withy | Thanks, Bill. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, at this time here, This is the time for City Council to hear from the citizens regarding matters that are not on the agenda. Except in very limited situations, state law precludes that the council from taking action on engaging or discussions concerning items or businesses that are not on the agenda. At this time, hearers of anybody from the public, thank you for coming. |
| 00:25:29.66 | Unknown | Thank you. you |
| 00:25:32.47 | Ray Withy | At this time here, anybody from the public would like to come up and address anything that is not on the agenda? Okay. At this time here, then we'll move to... Approved the minutes of the regular City Council meeting of January 29, 2013. Can I have a move on that, please? Thank you. |
| 00:25:56.70 | Thomas Theodores | Right. Yeah, I move that we accept the minutes of the regular City Council meeting of January 29, 2013. |
| 00:26:05.05 | Ray Withy | you |
| 00:26:05.10 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 00:26:05.24 | Ray Withy | you |
| 00:26:05.49 | Thomas Theodores | Okay. |
| 00:26:06.03 | Ray Withy | All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Okay. Thank you. Okay. |
| 00:26:17.12 | Ray Withy | Okay, at this time here and then we go to the consent calendar. Removal of the items from the consent calendars. Matters listed under the consent calendar are considered routine and non-controversial. require no discussion or expect that they have unanimous council support and may be enacted by the council in one motion in the form listed below. |
| 00:26:42.45 | Thomas Theodores | Mr. Mayor, I do have a quick clarification on item D, the summary from our special meeting on February 2nd. |
| 00:26:43.38 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 00:26:52.57 | Unknown | You know? |
| 00:26:53.23 | Thomas Theodores | And my clarification is, and I want to thank the facilitator for the great job she did and the council for the participation. On page two, and I regret I just noticed this in my review over the weekend, but on page two at the very bottom under Rosenberg's Rules of Order, points of clarification, I recall it was raised on point one. Rounds of three minutes, then one minute take place. The number of additional rounds needed to surface new information are at the chair mayor's discretion. Rosenberg's Rules of Order to end debate requires a four to one vote. And that was raised at the team building as a side discussion. And I don't see that here. And I just wanted clarification from the city attorney on this. |
| 00:27:51.50 | Mary Wagner | Sure. If you actually flip to page 3, item number 2, separate from the above, any member can call for a vote. It takes a two-thirds majority. to move to a vote, so we talked about both of them. We talked about the fact that Rosenberg's also has a provision that allows the chair to say, that there's a discussion has ended. |
| 00:28:09.79 | Thomas Theodores | But it is not at the – it requires – that still requires a 4-1 vote. Rosenberg's Rules of Order, my recollection is that it requires a 4-1 vote. We cannot give, as a general of the city, the mayor more, you know, power than he is afforded. |
| 00:28:31.00 | Mary Wagner | Yeah, we did talk about both, and it does specifically say the chair. to the chair of the meeting, and it does not require, if someone disagrees, I would think that they would say then raise the point you were saying and say, no, I don't think we're done. |
| 00:28:42.66 | Unknown | Okay. |
| 00:28:44.83 | Mary Wagner | And if you think we're done, we need to put it to a question. Thank you. Because you can ask. |
| 00:28:48.89 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:28:49.03 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 00:28:51.07 | Mary Wagner | you can challenge decisions of the chair under Rosenbergs, but Rosenbergs does have provision for the chair to end discussion. |
| 00:28:54.17 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. I understand that, but the fact that it was also subject to the 4-1 vote was not clear in the way it was written. |
| 00:29:03.25 | Mary Wagner | It isn't clear. It's separate. So what I'm suggesting to you is if somebody disagrees, then you are challenging the ruling of the chair on that issue. |
| 00:29:13.93 | Thomas Theodores | And that's a 401 That's a four-one to indiscretion. |
| 00:29:16.82 | Mary Wagner | I can pull that up for you if you would like me to, but we probably need to put it to the end of the agenda. Okay, that would be fine. Because I do... |
| 00:29:23.00 | Thomas Theodores | Okay, that would be fine. Because I did review this over the weekend and it is of concern to not only me but several residents. |
| 00:29:29.14 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 00:29:29.17 | Unknown | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 00:29:32.45 | Adam Politzer | I think what was discussed at the retreat at the team building. was that if there is no new information, if we're going back and forth with the same arguments, that that's when the chair would say, I hear no new arguments. I'M CALLING FOR THE QUESTION. And what the city attorney is saying if you feel that there is new information that hasn't been yet shared, then you would say, no, there is new information and you would make that argument. But if there is an agreement that we're going back and forth with no new information. The chair has the responsibility, as we talked about, at the team building, to move the agenda along so that we don't stay on one item for longer than need be. So I think that is in the spirit of what is represented here in the summary report. |
| 00:30:18.16 | Thomas Theodores | So I recall the discussion around the chair's discretion regarding any new information. But to end that discussion, my recollection of Rosenberg's Rules of Order requires that for one majority to end debate. Because otherwise we are giving the mayor power to end political debate. |
| 00:30:41.33 | Mary Wagner | Okay, Rosenberg specifically says under the paragraph to debate or not to debate. The debate can continue as long as members of the body wish to discuss an item Subject to the decision of the chair that it is time to move on and take action. separate and apart from a motion to limit debate or call the question. which another council member or the mayor can make to limit the debate, which then requires the fourth vote. It has both. |
| 00:31:09.51 | Thomas Theodores | Okay, so I didn't print out Rosenberg's rules of order, but I just want to make sure that the mayor cannot, at his discretion, just stop debate. That we will submit that to a vote and that it's a high bar to end that debate. |
| 00:31:24.46 | Mary Wagner | Again, if a council member disagrees with the ruling of the chair, you challenge the chair's ruling. That's what Rosenberg's... Excuse me? Sure, we can move it to the end or we can continue. Thank you. That would be great. If the council wants to pull it, I mean, that's, if Council Member Pfeiffer wants to pull it and put it at the end, we can do that. Yeah, I think. |
| 00:31:35.48 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. That would be great. If the council wants to. |
| 00:31:43.58 | Thomas Theodores | Yeah, I think it's a simple discussion, and I just want to get clarity on it just to make sure, because it was something that was raised over the weekend by some residents, and I just wanted to get clarity on that. |
| 00:31:55.48 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:31:55.95 | Thomas Theodores | Mr. Mayor? |
| 00:31:56.49 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. Yes. Pull that item and put it at the end of your business items? |
| 00:31:57.12 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 00:31:57.50 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 00:32:01.05 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:32:01.35 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 00:32:01.60 | Mary Wagner | That would be great. Thank you. |
| 00:32:02.90 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 00:32:07.09 | Ray Withy | Okay, so then removing that to where we're going to move it down to, to the end. |
| 00:32:15.27 | Adam Politzer | Yeah, 6E. So 4D becomes 6E. |
| 00:32:23.66 | Ray Withy | Okay. All right. Then removing that, can I have approval of a consent calendar with the moving of 4D to 6E? |
| 00:32:35.00 | Thomas Theodores | So I move to approve. with amendment. |
| 00:32:39.81 | Ray Withy | Mmm. Well, wait, yeah, I have to hold. I have to ask if there's any questions from the public at this time on this item. |
| 00:32:46.85 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 00:32:49.56 | Ray Withy | Okay, seeing them. Okay, thank you, Ray. |
| 00:32:52.46 | Thomas Theodores | I move to approve the consent calendar moving item 4D to 6E. |
| 00:33:00.58 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 00:33:00.60 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 00:33:00.97 | Thomas Theodores | I second. |
| 00:33:01.75 | Ray Withy | Okay, all in favor? Aye. Aye. |
| 00:33:04.24 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 00:33:04.30 | Unknown | Bye. |
| 00:33:04.41 | Thomas Theodores | I like |
| 00:33:04.95 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 00:33:07.54 | Ray Withy | All right, first business item that we have now is an update on the disaster preparedness. |
| 00:33:16.71 | Ray Withy | William Press. I haven't used the word William on you, I don't think, since you came here. |
| 00:33:21.36 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:33:22.15 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 00:33:22.16 | Unknown | Not many people have. |
| 00:33:23.35 | Ray Withy | . |
| 00:33:24.22 | Unknown | Thank you. Well, good evening, Mr. Mayor, council members, Mr. City Manager, and distinguished members of the city staff. Today I have the privilege of, once my PowerPoint comes up, presenting The 2012 Year in Review regarding our Disaster Preparedness Emergency Operations Program For the same. During this presentation, we're going to talk about what we did in 2012 regarding EOC activations, plans, equipment, community outreach and meetings, and our future plans for the future. For a complete listing, please refer to the staff report that I was provided. I like to make my presentations as short as possible and I think most people like presentations like that. |
| 00:34:08.52 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:34:08.84 | Unknown | First was EOC activations. This year, we activated the EOC on September 27th, in order to help locate a missing 88-year-old female with dementia. The Emergency Operations Center was used as a staging area and a command center so we could coordinate our efforts. search, which lasted almost three and a half hours, we had 60 members of the public safety field including police officers, firefighters, public safety, volunteers, members of search and rescue from numerous different agencies. completing this search. After the three-and-a-half-hour search, we found the female. We had scoured around the areas of Sausalito. We had started expanding our search, and we found her actually walking in the middle of the poorly lit street in the valley. but because of the coordinated efforts of the entire team, we were able to successfully locate her. She had been missing since 7 o'clock that morning. training. We had our yearly EOC exercise. But last year we called it October's wrap. figured out a horrible storm. would be right. and cause wrath and other destruction in the city of Sausalito. So that was an appropriate name. And October is just a fun month to have an exercise in. So this exercise is a winter storm striking the city of Sausalito. As you can see, here's pictures of our staff and our EOC members working during the exercise? And what kind of disaster were we trying to figure out and kind of work on? Well, that was just one aspect, a landslide crashing throughout the hills of Sausalito, down Alexander and into the Bay. You prepare for the worst, you can handle anything. And I like to make sure that our city staff is able to handle the worst case scenarios and training So when you have of disaster, an emergency in real life. it's never as bad. We also continue to utilize online training in order to provide our staff the most comprehensive and well-rounded education and training in emergency management as possible. through FEMA, our Emergency Operations Center personnel and their subordinates. received training in emergency management for senior officials, emergency management preparedness fundamentals, development of incident action plans and the forms that should be utilized in order to A lot of people don't realize how important paperwork is when it comes to emergency management If it's not on paper, It doesn't exist. And later on, when a city tries to get funded the state and federal government for what actions we take If it's not on paper, the government's going to give us a hard time and not want to fund us. So it's very important we receive that training. We also received training in social media and emergency management. I don't know anything about Facebook, Twitter, or any other things like that. but I hear it's quite popular. |
| 00:37:01.32 | Ray Withy | I've seen your Facebook page, man. |
| 00:37:02.43 | Unknown | Oh, no, no, no. |
| 00:37:02.82 | Unknown | . |
| 00:37:04.95 | Unknown | Ooh, that's one thing that will never be seen because I'll never have one. But we have to look towards the future. We have to look towards what is the community and what the public is doing to communicate and how to get the messages out to them. and also in disasters over the last few years. in hurricanes, wildfires, Emergency officials have been notified of problems and of rescues that need to have been done through social media. So we have to be aware of that outreach. We also learned about earthquake basics such as the science of earthquakes, the risk they pose, and what steps we could take to mediate possible damage throughout the city of Sausalito. Training is great. I love training, so I get as much training as possible, probably to the chagrin of the people that have to put up with me. But, uh, We trained the Emergency Operations Center's public information officers in their duties, and they went to classes regarding that. The Department of Public Works Division Manager and Staff Engineer attended a training course in disaster recovery. The emergency services manager, the city clerk, police captain, the city staff engineer, other police department personnel, as well as fire department personnel receive training in the new telephone emergency notification system. This is going online, you've probably seen the big media buzz about it lately about signing This emergency notification system is far greater and better than any system we've had in the past. This system allows us not only to contact hard line phone numbers but cell phone numbers, voice over internet phone numbers. And one of the best things about this is now as a city we have control of this system. In the past, we had asked the county to activate the system. we could activate the system ourselves. One of the good things about this is you don't have to be at a computer. You could do it from an iPad. You could do it from a laptop. It could be done. And it's very simple to utilize. Plans. Planning is extremely important. If you don't plan for the future, You can't prepare yourself for the present. We continually update our city of Sausalito's emergency operations resource book and our planning. We have applied for storm ready and tsunami ready certification through the National Weather Service. and the California Emergency Management Agency. They looked at our stuff and they said, you know what? Pretty much you're 99% there. The things you have put in place, the plans you have activated and the steps your city has taken, have met the vast majority of our requirements. They were highly impressed with what this city has accomplished in the last few years. This allows our city to get credit where credit deserves, but also to continue to educate the public and inform them of what they should be prepared for and give them opportunities to educate themselves. Equipment, we obtain National Weather Service alert radios for the city. our Emergency Operations Center, and the Sausalito School District Superintendent's Office. That was provided to the school at free of cost. We successfully tested our city of South Salido's emergency broadcast system every month. It functions perfectly. Thank you. We want to make sure we turn it off or we lose the chance to listen to a lot of good music, We always remember to turn it on and turn it off so far. AND We have purchased identification vests for each position in the EOC. Not only, as you can tell by that photograph, they're very fashionable if you like to wear. fluorescent stripes on dark colors. but, Now a person could walk into that room, take a look at the vest, and they could tell who's doing what. who's responsible for what, and where to go to. Also, if our city staff ever have to intermingle with other staff from the county or other emergency operations centers, our colors correspond to their colors. So they could walk into any emergency operations center and go, ah, that's red. I know where to go. Blue, black. I know where to go. |
| 00:41:06.24 | Unknown | Actually, that's Erin and Susie Nichols, who both of them performed outstanding, especially Erin for her first time in an EOC exercise this year. |
| 00:41:13.92 | Ray Withy | That has a totally different tint than that. |
| 00:41:15.56 | Unknown | I mean that. |
| 00:41:17.64 | Ray Withy | Oh, sorry. |
| 00:41:18.63 | Unknown | . |
| 00:41:19.85 | Ray Withy | we get tickets right now |
| 00:41:21.23 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. Community outreach, we still believe community outreach and educating and informing the public is our most important step in disaster preparedness. Should I get out of the way of the line of fire? Remember, she's my boss. |
| 00:41:39.86 | Unknown | Thank you. . |
| 00:41:43.24 | Unknown | That's true on civil service. |
| 00:41:47.32 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:41:47.64 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:41:48.09 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:41:49.26 | Unknown | So we continue to update our website. We put new information regarding educational opportunities, plans we're conducting, information for our citizens. We update them regarding what the city's doing and what the Disaster Preparedness Committee is doing. The website is a wonderful tool. The Disaster Preparedness Committee meet regularly. Last year we met 10 out of the 12 months in order to discuss events, prepare future training events and citizen community outreach steps, and to figure out ways we can best reach out to the public to educate them. We published an article about disaster preparedness in the maritime environment. in the Sausaloyacht Club's letter to Squeegee, Amen. We received good comments regarding that from the Maritime environment. And we took part in a disaster preparedness survey conducted by the Public Disaster Education Preparedness Committee of the Marin County, that's a big title, Community Disaster and Citizens Corps Council. Basically what that did was gave us some validation. They looked at all the steps we've taken. And many, many I believe actually all but one of our community outreach efforts were considered what they called best practices. Many agencies don't have nearly the strong outreach program we have. Other steps in community outreach we've conducted is we staff the community information booth. At the street fair this year, Caledonia Street Fair, we had numerous people come up, obtain information about how to get certified in first aid, how to get certified as a CERT member, what to do to better prepare themselves, their families, their neighborhoods, and their cities in disaster preparedness. And we held our annual disaster preparedness awareness event at the U.S. Army Corps. We had approximately 70 citizens from the community attend this meeting. You sit and some people go, well, 70. That's not a whole lot of people. I go to meetings and I tell that we hold these events and we had 70 people show up to this two and a half hour long event. And I have other emergency managers look at me going, 70? I'm lucky if I get 10. How do you get that many people? It's because we have a strong community and people want to help themselves and help their neighbors. We had emergency professionals and we had private vendors there providing people information regarding what the city does, what their agencies do. And the public vendors and the private industries were there to inform what they could bring to the table. Also, we gave away some raffle prizes this year, that probably helped out. And it's always fun when you could Land a helicopter. |
| 00:44:24.81 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 00:44:26.40 | Unknown | And the Coast Guard brings a fast boat in so people can look at it. Thank you. But once again, very well attended, very well accepted and are accepted by the ACAC community. I'm talking fast because I heard there's a side bet about how long this may take to make. So I want to just make sure that I am there to help the city as best I can. |
| 00:44:47.63 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:44:51.95 | Unknown | Community meetings, I met with many members of the Whiskey Springs complex to discuss disaster preparedness and provide them with training. they were very well accepted to that, and they reached out to us. It wasn't me reaching out to them saying, hey, do you want to listen to me? Do you want to listen to me? They came to us and said, I want to talk. We want to hear you. I met with the Chamber of Commerce, BizX, and discussed what disaster preparedness and businesses have in common, what they need to do. It's not just about preparing your home, it's preparing your business. being prepared to help the community, as well. as being prepared to help your employees. Because a disaster is going to happen, most likely it's going to happen when you're at work. You may have people that you're responsible for. We discussed disaster preparedness in the school district with the maintenance operations and transportation director for the Sausalito Marin City School District. He also handles disaster preparedness for the school district. I met with the representative with the California Geological Survey to discuss Sausalito's preparations for tsunamis. And We've met with the California Emergency Management Agency, National Weather Service, and Marin County Sheriff's Office regarding how to apply. in disgust. about the storm ready and tsunami ready certifications. Future plans, we're always looking forward I actually pieced together both those photos so it looks like one. I was kind of proud of myself because I'm computer illiterate. For plans, we want to continue the strong community outreach. education, discussion with the community through meetings, newsletters, press releases. There's many ways we could get out to the public That's what we want to do. We're gonna continue to test the emergency preparedness and emergency notification signals. The best way is that system is great. Radio Sausalito helps us a lot and it has proven to work. We're going to continue our future. training and further training for the city personnel. I'm already. in the process of planning the 2013 emergency exercise for our EOC. looking for what kind of, what haven't we done Handled before, what issues may strike the city of Sausalito? and what curve balls we could throw to make people think outside of the box. And we're going to continue our efforts in funding and equipping the emergency operation centers, both our primary one at Fire Station 1 as well as our secondary backup one here at City Hall. And on that note, I'm happy to answer any questions, and I thank you for the opportunity to present. |
| 00:47:25.24 | Ray Withy | Thank you. Any questions here? Questions? Linda? |
| 00:47:30.29 | Unknown | you |
| 00:47:30.84 | Thomas Theodores | Well, thank you, Mr. Mayor, and thank you for this great presentation. I was just curious, of all the things that you've covered right now with Sausalito, is there one area that you would like to see the city move, you know, a little bit further on with regards to disaster preparedness, a way where we might be able to help you out? |
| 00:47:54.77 | Unknown | A couple things. Biggest thing in disaster preparedness is getting the word out to the public. We need. When it comes to anything about disaster preparedness or emergency management, people never think about it or care about it. until there's a boulder sitting in their front yard because of the landslide. It's not until something happens to them. We have to continue to do all our efforts to get the word out about how important this is. And every member of the community, every member of the city has that responsibility. Thank you. We need the opportunities and tools in order to do that. And part of that is, as always, the funding question. Emergency disaster preparedness is done through the City of Sausalito Police Department's So additional funds for disaster preparedness is always a welcome addition. And one aspect is the disaster preparedness is the city is undergoing a mapping project. It is underway. I have to give a serious word of thanks to Director Goldman for all his hard work and all the Department of Public Works' hard work in this program. It is getting closer and closer to completion when there is a draft which is almost ready, a final rough draft. It will be presented to the council for approval. But we are stepping forward. And the main thing is we just need a whole well-rounded effort to get the word out about disaster preparedness. |
| 00:49:10.83 | Unknown | you |
| 00:49:20.19 | Ray Withy | Okay, any other questions? Thank you. At this time, we have any questions from the public? Okay, let's bring it back up here. Bill, as being a sergeant, I really want to express my thanks for all you've done to take on this |
| 00:49:21.53 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:49:21.61 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:49:22.08 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:49:37.93 | Ray Withy | this job besides your regular job as a sergeant and really stepping up to bat I remember when we first started, when we started riding around to the different parks and setting it up to communicate with the public. So I really want to thank you for a great effort that you've done and a continuing effort for what you will do. So thank you. Any other comments? |
| 00:50:05.84 | Thomas Theodores | Yeah, Ms. Crook. Yeah, I'd like to thank you too because I know that you've been doing this for a while and it's disaster preparedness. I've been to a couple of the events and it's the type of thing where, like you said, people really don't pay attention until the disaster hits and then everybody is in a panic. So the service you're providing is really invaluable and it's very much appreciated. Thank you. |
| 00:50:30.11 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:50:30.12 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 00:50:30.12 | Ray Withy | Thank you very much. Thank you, Bill. |
| 00:50:30.29 | Unknown | Thank you very much. Thank you, Bill. I'd like to say one quick thing. I've been a sergeant for five and a half years in my 16 and a half years with this department. I thoroughly love the city and continue to work. I've held this position as a disaster preparedness committee for our disaster and emergency services manager for about four and a half of those five and a half years. It's just not me. I'm the lowest denominator. I'm just the person who comes up and puts on bad PowerPoints. It is an entire city's effort. And without the leadership of the city manager, the police chief, and everybody in the city, the program wouldn't be successful. |
| 00:50:57.73 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:51:04.85 | Ray Withy | Yeah, well, thanks for stepping up to the bat. I mean, that's exactly what you did. So thank you again. And the city thanks you. |
| 00:51:10.28 | Unknown | Yeah. Amen. |
| 00:51:12.66 | Ray Withy | Thank you. Now you can go home. |
| 00:51:13.34 | Unknown | Now you can go home. Actually, I owe my wife dinner. So let me go get dinner first. |
| 00:51:17.47 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:51:17.53 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 00:51:17.64 | Unknown | All right. |
| 00:51:17.76 | Ray Withy | Don't be bothered to get him first. |
| 00:51:20.41 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:51:20.44 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:51:20.46 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:51:21.41 | Ray Withy | you Okay. Next on our program, on our agenda is the 2013 Street Preparation. repair program. Todd, teach out. |
| 00:51:30.80 | Unknown | We... |
| 00:51:37.52 | Ray Withy | Mm-hmm. Thank you. Have a good meal. |
| 00:51:54.35 | Unknown | That's good. Thanks. Thank you. |
| 00:52:03.29 | Todd | Okay. |
| 00:52:03.37 | Unknown | Okay. |
| 00:52:04.62 | Todd | Thank you. I'm Mr. Mayor and fellow council members, staff, public in the audience. This is an update to the street repair program. two thousand The 2012-2013 budget allocates approximately $470,000 in two project called Street Repair and Base Repair Program. |
| 00:52:22.80 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 00:52:29.01 | Todd | that funds this, and in October of last year, the council took action to consider a very preliminary street repair list and to authorize the hiring of Kim Lee Horn, our consultant, helping us develop plans. Since that time, they've been going out to the city streets, assessing the conditions to formulate the repair list and more or less allocating the budgets and coming up with some strategic issues. So I want to give you that initial background and then walk you through where we are. As I said, the program is funded primarily through two projects in the capital repair program, the street repair program and the base repair. Mostly that's pavement, asphalt, concrete, soil seals, craft seals. But because of the city and the unique nature of all the houses, we do a lot of minor drainage. We do some driveway connection adjustments and striping. When we do concrete streets, because the life of the material is so different, we also have to make an effort to rehab the storm drains and the sanitary sewer, which the city is also responsible for maintaining. And we also coordinate with the utilities as best as we can on the gas, the water, and the other utilities that are in the right-of-way. The street repair program is funded through a number of different sources. In the current budget, the gas tax categories provide the biggest amount, roughly $160,000. |
| 00:54:17.58 | Unknown | of the |
| 00:54:20.82 | Todd | Historically, over the last seven years, the construction impact fees have been a bigger group, so that's why that was in the first. But we also get a fair amount of revenue from Measure A, which is Marin sales tax that was passed in 2004, and Measure B, which was a vehicle registration fee which was passed, I want to say, maybe two years ago. Transportation Authority of Marin is still working on the details of getting those resources to us. We also occasionally get general fund contributions through the general capital program fund. We also get California bond proceeds We got $400,000 roughly four or five years ago. Those were one-time monies. And then we get grants, which are numerous programs, and typically those get allocated to project specific. So I won't go into that much further. In the budget, as I said, impact fees this year show $150,000 to contribute. Gas tax, $232,000. Measure A was estimated to be $69,000. Measure B is $20,000, which comes up with roughly our budget amounts. Because these other sources vary, I don't include those. I would say these four categories are our steady state revenue sources, although measure A is a 20-year measure, so in the 2024, unless that's reauthorized, it will go away. Um, We've had three projects, three large projects in town since I started in 2005. A project in 2006 that had a value of $377,000. Two projects in 2010, the Johnson Street improvements that coincided with the public safety facility and then a more general citywide program that totaled a million and 81 million. And then last year we had a very large project that did the two concrete streets on 3rd and San Carlos, and that was 1.5. We had a fair amount of reserves in those accounts, and those large projects have really taken it down quite a bit. So we're kind of back to the steady state level, which is roughly $470,000, and our consultants and other charges are... taking it down quite a bit. So we're kind of back to the steady state level, which is roughly $470,000. And our consultants and other charges are going to give us roughly a $400,000 construction amount. But where we are in the program, where we are in the fiscal year and where we are in the project implementation, we're suggesting that we combine this year and next year into one project, and we'll need your support for that. So this is a color image of what we did in 2006. The blues are overlay streets. Orange are categories of what we call slurry seal streets. And then the red streets are where we did structural patches or crack sealing. Not so much. When you add that with 2010, we start getting quite a bit larger. And then when you add that with what we did last time, you see we've done a lot of work in the town. Indeed, 62% of our streets have been touched by our maintenance program. And if you authorize what staff is recommending, we'll add an additional 7% with the next project. In October, the city hired Kimley-Horn to develop the program. As I said, the initial budget for that was roughly $400,000, but because of where we are timing-wise, we're suggesting we roll 2013-14 into this year's program. And the engineers, the list that's in your staff report has a very preliminary estimate of $796,000. So there's a difference between this slide and what's in your staff report. What's in your staff report was the list that you saw in October. And it wasn't resource constrained too much. We added a number of concrete streets, and then there was a lot of work that we needed to get done from the last projects that we're just kind of pulling forward, little projects like shoulder paving. And there's a number of localized areas that don't lend themselves to overlay work. But it's important that this stuff get done, so we've added that. This list is the list in your staff report all cleaned up. Strategically what we're doing with this project as compared to last is we're not doing any asphalt overlay work in this. There were a couple of projects or a couple of streets where overlay was initially recommended by our consultant thinks that it could be done as effectively with a program called a rubberized CAPE seal. It's not quite like a slurry seal. It's got a rubberized binder wire. A slurry seal typically has a 6 to 8 year life. A CAPE seal has a 12 to 20 year life. So this program has four slurry seals. It's a Cape Seal streets. And then we have one... traditional slurry seal up on Cloud View and Crack Seal and then Uh, The big one is Richardson Street. Richardson Street wasn't identified in our pavement management system's recommendation, but it was a concrete street. We've had a lot of advocacy for it. So we're suggesting that we include this, and that will go from second to west, completely reconstruct the concrete. We're coordinating with Marin Municipal Water District. They are expected to replace the water mains in there in April. And we've outreached to the PG&E and AT&T. Thus far, we haven't heard. and then we'll be upgrading the sewer mains and the lower laterals and the storm drainage. |
| 01:01:17.87 | Adam Politzer | Todd, can I do, before you go forward, can you go back to the pavement management system that streets that fall below a certain rating and the streets that fall below a certain rating, end up not showing up on your payment management system. |
| 01:01:30.78 | Todd | uh, Yeah, well, actually, it kind of gets into this. How do, for the benefit of the new council member, how do we identify streets? |
| 01:01:45.05 | Unknown | Oh. |
| 01:01:46.30 | Todd | Every city who has the benefit of using federal funds is required to have a pavement management system. We use a program called Street Saver, which is developed through Metropolitan Transportation Commission. And every five years, the city has a full citywide assessment. There are people out there visually measuring distresses in a standardized fashion. That information is entered into a computer to determine a condition index, anywhere from zero to 100, 100 being excellent and zero being, you know, basically dirt road. impassable. So in 2011 we updated our pavement management system and came up with a condition index. This pavement management system also has something called a deterioration prediction model and also an econometric model to allow us to optimize our resources. For better or For better or for worse, given the resources that we have of $470,000, $475,000 a year, that program never allocates to pavements that have a condition below 40. So we have to pull them up. to bring them forward. Richardson has a PCI of about 32. Um, |
| 01:03:25.82 | Unknown | Yes. |
| 01:03:29.14 | Todd | So, The pavement management system is a very smart calculator, but it's not perfect, so we have to augment it to bring forward the streets that are in such poor condition that they wouldn't get resources otherwise. As I've just discussed, this year we're not really doing other overlays. We're putting most of the resources into Richardson Street and the four Cape Seal streets. So next project, we'll be doing more overlays. Utility coordination factors into whether or not a project gets done. Then there's unexpected conditions. You know, the condition index was based on an assessment done in November of 2011. It's been a year and a half since then. Every wet cycle we're in a very seismically active thing. Accidents happen. So we have to take into consideration things that weren't taken into consideration when the assessment was done. And finally, last but not least, we have to consider community |
| 01:04:49.67 | Todd | So You've been presented with the list. I didn't go through it. It's very, I guess I'll go back to that slide. But we continue to get a lot of advocacy for the Concrete Street Rehab, Main Street, Gerard, Santa Rosa, Easterby. Today, on Edward, we got some advocacy for Edwards. We've got maybe three or four in the last few days. We did an asphalt overlay of Lower Spencer because we had a grant. And that hasn't worked very well Thank you. three or four in the last few days. We did an asphalt or overlay of lower Spencer because we had a grant, and that hasn't worked very well because it's so steep and it's so curvy. So that one really needs to be redone probably in concrete. |
| 01:04:59.86 | Mary Wagner | We take it. |
| 01:05:30.67 | Todd | Those aren't the only concrete streets in town, but I'd say these are the ones that we get the largest amount of advocacy for. Thank you. And again, Anytime we do one of these streets, we'll have to do these other aspects. And the pavement project doesn't pay for the storm drain work, the utility work. So we have to balance the resources between the different funding sources. So while we're currently working on the 2013 program, we can't lose sight of the fact that this is ongoing, so we need to start rolling into work on the next year's project. So, I guess I'll go back. you |
| 01:06:19.49 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:06:19.75 | Todd | and boy, long upon me. |
| 01:06:25.74 | Todd | So this is the program we're asking you to endorse, and we're recommending that you make a motion accepting the street repair list and then authorizing us to finish the project, come up with the final estimate, and then solicit bids, and then we'll come back to you with an award. And with that, I'll conclude. |
| 01:06:34.33 | Unknown | Amen. |
| 01:06:35.24 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 01:06:35.30 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:06:35.32 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 01:06:35.34 | Unknown | that. |
| 01:06:35.41 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 01:06:54.07 | Ray Withy | Okay, thank you, Todd. Any questions? Sorry, anything? |
| 01:06:57.34 | Ray Withy | Todd, just a couple things. Can you flip back to your funding slide? Yes. So just to clarify, because it was a change in policy maybe four years ago where the city hadn't made any contributions from the general fund in many years into the capital budget. We, in 2008-09, 9-10, a quarter of a million each year, almost a half a million in 2010-11, and 350,000 last year, and 250,000 this year, and next year is also. I think us knuckleheads up here are, and hopefully with this new council, have made commitment to actually being, taking the community's money and putting it back into the infrastructure, so I think you can start redoing some of your slides here, because I know you've been here for longer than that, and you remember when your source of funding was much more variable. Obviously, budgets change, but, you know, I think we have a pretty strong commitment to that. And I think the one point of clarity and I do have a question. Now the payment management system, just for the new folks, it was kind of like a because it kept wanting to repave the same streets over and over because those were the heavily trafficked streets where you could stretch your dollar farthest and then you could have a lot of money Um, by repaving those and having less cost of repaving because you do them more frequently. So the rest of it, and this is the layman's interpretation. So I think what we've done is strike a better balance of common sense and science to a certain degree. What constitutes common sense, whether it's advocacy or just, you know, whatever other things we're making our headway on. The question I have for you going forward, when you're asking to combine these two, so the list of projects you have at the end, which I have one question for, but this, to do these treats is $800,000 or is this the $400,000? |
| 01:08:29.03 | Jonathon Goldman | It's just a |
| 01:09:04.65 | Todd | Well, our consultant says it's 796,000. I haven't parsed it in great detail. Personally, I'm a little skeptical. |
| 01:09:13.42 | Ray Withy | Especially because you only have one real pavement. I don't know how much the Cape Seal runs. |
| 01:09:17.05 | Todd | The Cape Seal runs. Yeah, Richardson Street. It's a long stretch. Yeah. The big budget categories that he did give us was the concrete street. That was roughly $300,000. And the Cape Seals were also $300,000. So surprisingly, that's an expensive process. |
| 01:09:19.62 | Ray Withy | It's a long stretch. Yeah. Yeah. |
| 01:09:34.79 | Ray Withy | Is that a factor less, a multiple less than overlay? Like say Atwood for example, which and again this is has potholes and deteriorating pavement. If you put this rubber seal and then the slurry on top of it, does that compensate for it fills in the potholes and the other stuff and seals the old base? So it has less of a lifetime than an overlay, but much more. |
| 01:09:53.82 | Todd | Yes. |
| 01:10:02.82 | Todd | It has roughly the same amount of lifetime. A normal asphalt overlay is about 20 years. And, you know, Bridgeway is a prime example. We overlaid that in 2004, so we're now maybe nine years in. It's starting to get some maintenance, and we'll get some this year, but not a lot. Okay. So, but the capes, by the normal but a normal asphalt overlay is calculated to last 20 years and a Cape Seal is calculated about 20 years. |
| 01:10:21.38 | Unknown | Oh, yeah. Thank you. Okay. |
| 01:10:36.60 | Ray Withy | Okay. And you're comfortable with the generation of the CAPE-SEAL candidates. Did that come from the payment management system or from a little bit of both? |
| 01:10:48.02 | Todd | Thank you. Our consultant who has done, was strongly recommending that work on these streets. |
| 01:10:49.90 | Ray Withy | Okay. |
| 01:10:55.85 | Ray Withy | I don't mean the choice of the material, but I mean that's a level above the cracked slurry seal. |
| 01:11:00.38 | Todd | from the crack slurry seal. Yeah, it was engineering judgment, not a calculation. I got it. |
| 01:11:07.48 | Ray Withy | computer calculation. And what time frame would you guess, if you're combining these things, are you going to package them all and go out to bid all at once? And then when do you think, or are you going to answer? |
| 01:11:16.98 | Todd | Well, we'd like to, we'll have a meeting with the consultant. We'll call him up tomorrow, and if we can have it this week, we'll have it this week. Probably early next week to try to get, you know, he's been working on the planned sheets since mid-December, so I'm hoping that we can get out to bid by late April and maybe award in May and get on construction in June. |
| 01:11:29.64 | Mary Wagner | You know, he's... |
| 01:11:46.70 | Ray Withy | But would you anticipate doing them during one sort of fiscal year or would you anticipate them stretching over the next two years? |
| 01:11:52.67 | Todd | Well, it would probably get into construction this fiscal year, but it would conclude at the end of the summer, which is the next fiscal year. |
| 01:12:00.94 | Ray Withy | THAT'S IT. That's true, that's right. Yeah, I forget about that. All right, thanks, Don. You too. Thank you. |
| 01:12:06.81 | Thomas Theodores | Thanks, Mr. Mayor. So thanks, Todd, for this overview. I'm happy to see the streets that are listed here, but I was wondering if you could flip forward to the other streets that have been highlighted as well in the subsequent slide. It was... Yeah, yet another slide that showed streets that... There, concrete street rehab. |
| 01:12:33.78 | Mary Wagner | Yeah. |
| 01:12:33.90 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:12:33.97 | Mary Wagner | you |
| 01:12:36.85 | Thomas Theodores | ongoing study advocacy. So does that mean, are these streets on the list to be addressed as well, or they're just in the queue? for the concrete street rehab. |
| 01:12:46.91 | Todd | Well- Yeah, all of these streets have very low PCI's, so the pavement management system and The pavement management system is a little insensitive to ride quality, like roughness and bumpiness. and because a lot of the streets, concrete streets, are incredibly, a few of them are incredibly rough, but structurally they support the truckloads pretty well. So because of those factors, the pavement management system doesn't allocate the resources to that. But the demand is there, and it gets fairly loud from time to time. Main Street and Richardson historically have been the loudest, but we have had a lot of pointed stuff about Girard and Santa Rosa a year ago with Easterby, this week with Edwards |
| 01:13:51.54 | Thomas Theodores | And when you say loud, you mean community advocacy, people asking? Yes. Because I've also heard, I guess, and then there are two potholes at Bridgeway near Gate 6 Road. So I hear the same sorts of things. |
| 01:13:53.87 | Todd | Yeah. |
| 01:14:04.11 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. And I guess my question, follow-up question would be, In the beginning, you mentioned grants, and you mentioned, you know, Measure A and Measure B. And I noticed, I did some a little bit of research and I noticed that the county had gotten 3.3 million or so, or 6 million in Measure A funds. They were going for 9 million. this year and 11 million next year. And one of the things that they mentioned is they're going to be aggressively pursuing other grant resources. And I was wondering if that was on your... |
| 01:14:41.88 | Todd | you back. |
| 01:14:42.37 | Thomas Theodores | Can you share a little bit about that for us? |
| 01:14:42.82 | Todd | Thank you. Can you share a little bit? for us. Yeah, there has been last fall through the Transportation Authority of Marin and Metropolitan Transportation Commission, there was something called the One Bay Area Grant, which is federal funding for the next three years. We put in four proposals. I'm just going off the top of my memory. We got funding for the Bridgeway Bike Plan from that effort, but we did, in the past, that program, predecessors to the OBAG have emphasized rehab. And recognizing that, we put in a project, I want to, I think it was $300,000 to $500,000, maybe up to a million, for rehab. But because it's a grant source and each, you know, the people who have the money make the rules and their priorities have changed. In the OBAG cycle this time, they emphasized mode shift and integration with different transportation types. |
| 01:16:08.77 | Thomas Theodores | So they're talking about bike paths, basically. Bike paths and busses and things like this. So obviously I'm referring specifically to grants that address road repair. And because this was specifically mentioned in the county's road maintenance plan was to, they say, aggressively pursue other grants specifically for roads. So is that something that you might, you know, explore? We have some. |
| 01:16:08.80 | Todd | So, Like bike paths and busses and... |
| 01:16:23.05 | Unknown | That's impressive. |
| 01:16:35.87 | Unknown | We have that going. Thank you. |
| 01:16:37.81 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 01:16:37.83 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:16:37.96 | Unknown | We have that. |
| 01:16:38.59 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:16:38.87 | Thomas Theodores | Okay, but this one Bay Area, my understanding of their program was yours, which is they're more around this mixed use mass transit which |
| 01:16:39.70 | Unknown | THE FAMILY IS NOT A |
| 01:16:39.77 | Unknown | Absolutely. |
| 01:16:48.63 | Todd | But historically, those pots of funds have been used for rehab. |
| 01:16:53.22 | Thomas Theodores | for roads, not just bike paths. And they can be focused on things like Edwards and Eastern |
| 01:16:59.12 | Todd | things like Edwards and Easter. Yeah, and the feds don't have the restrictions. The restrictions that are on the OBAG funds are regional restrictions. They're not federal restrictions. |
| 01:17:09.47 | Thomas Theodores | Okay, okay. And then there's state Proposition 1B funding. Is that an opportunity? |
| 01:17:14.40 | Todd | We received $400,000 one time. Some of the larger entities, because we're a small entity, we got $400,000 one time. Some of the larger counties, some of the larger agencies, I don't know if San Rafael and Nevada are big enough, but Marin County is big enough to receive. |
| 01:17:31.59 | Mary Wagner | in Canada. |
| 01:17:33.78 | Todd | periodic additional funds from that. But our allocations come and go on. |
| 01:17:40.59 | Thomas Theodores | So we can't pursue state Prop 1B funding again. Okay. Thank you. |
| 01:17:45.85 | Adam Politzer | Mr. Mayor, can I just make a comment here? As Todd just mentioned, and he may want to expand on this a little bit, because we're such a small county in the Bay Area, a lot of the money goes to Transportation Authority of Marin or to the county, and then the county calls for grant proposals and we have also aggressively gone for those. So because we're a small county, rather than trying to give it to all these little cities, they give it to the county and then they administer. Todd, if you want to. |
| 01:18:16.60 | Todd | Yeah, thank you for reminding me. We did have an agreement with San Rafael. where We more or less swapped some of our resources, some of our federal allocations with them, and they were going to combine that and give us their local money. |
| 01:18:27.30 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 01:18:39.29 | Todd | Well, um, They're still working on that. I believe they'll get under construction this summer, so we should start getting a benefit probably mid-year next year as they complete that and then get the funds and then reimburse us. And then with this OBAG grant, even though the city didn't get funds, I believe Marin County got more than a million dollars of OBAG money for rehab. |
| 01:18:48.91 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 01:19:09.43 | Todd | and they're going to do the same thing that San Rafael did, but as of this moment, we haven't executed an agreement with them. That will be coming down the pike soon. |
| 01:19:19.20 | Thomas Theodores | That's great to hear because I would love to see that money applied specifically to these types of neighborhood streets as opposed to the downtown bike path sort of, you know, stuff exclusively. Thank you. |
| 01:19:29.78 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:19:32.26 | Ray Withy | Okay, any other questions up here? Go ahead, Tom. |
| 01:19:36.53 | Thomas Theodores | Todd, you mentioned that one of the factors in prioritizing which streets to do was community input or advocacy. Could you expand on that a little bit? I mean, how much does that weigh in and how do you measure that? |
| 01:19:52.36 | Todd | Well, it's the squeaky wheel. Thank you. |
| 01:19:56.58 | Ray Withy | So we try to protect Todd from his squeaky wings. |
| 01:19:58.61 | Todd | . |
| 01:20:01.19 | Ray Withy | Well, it's need, there's need also. |
| 01:20:03.36 | Ray Withy | to the strategy. |
| 01:20:03.79 | Ray Withy | Yeah, it has to fit into some needs also. |
| 01:20:08.12 | Todd | of you In the last project cycle, I would say Upper South was one of the louder groups. We also got some advocacy from Toyon Court, Woodward between Spring and Easterby, Patches on Curry. We had had, in years past, maybe the 2010, Crescenta Lane. People think of Crescenta Circle and think that's a great conditioned street. Why are you doing something like that? But Crescenta Lane is a little hammerhead up going from that to a few houses up there. That was pretty beat up, and we hit that up, and they were very happy. |
| 01:20:16.16 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 01:20:32.15 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:20:32.34 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. Yeah. |
| 01:20:48.29 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 01:20:48.98 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 01:20:49.03 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 01:20:49.05 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 01:20:57.10 | Ray Withy | on the ultimate. |
| 01:21:05.09 | Adam Politzer | Can I expand on this a little bit? |
| 01:21:06.41 | Todd | on this a little bit. |
| 01:21:09.24 | Adam Politzer | I want to make sure that Todd gets the credit that he deserves. I mean, obviously in a small community, people are going to pick up the phone and either call me or the mayor or council members or email us and obviously to Todd and Jonathan Goldman. But to Todd's credit, and to the staff's credit, we get in our cars and we go to these streets. So we don't just take people's words for it. And we create lists of streets and we run it through these different formulas and talk to consultants. and have to make choices. And as the Vice Mayor just shared, the Council ultimately hear from members of the public about why their street is more important than someone else's. But because of Todd's success and the council's success in funding these programs and getting funds to spend in the neighborhood of a million and a half. as we showed in 2011. and $1.3 million, I think it was, in 2010. we have paved up to the 63% of the streets, so we have less squeaky wheels because streets are getting paid. But I think really what's important, a million and a million five are the two numbers as we go forward. Jonathan Goldman, our public works chair, It's like painting the Gologna Bridge. Once we get to 100%, doesn't mean we're done. It just hopefully means that we have a little bit of a break because these streets will last 10 to 20 years depending on you know, other conditions. But it's very complicated because we're not just looking at Caving the street. We're trying to take care of all the other infrastructure deficiencies. that haven't been maintained in decades. And so when we talk about the sewers, the private laterals, the other public utilities, and the storm drains which aren't funded it brings into this, In one of the emails that Todd sent to one of our community members that was asking about Edward specifically. Then we also have to look at the street. That particular street is very narrow, very steep. And we believe that there's probably some encroachment issues onto it because people have built right up onto the edge. So, Even if we pick Edwards tonight, the likelihood of us getting that lined up to be paved in this segment would actually be impossible because of all the other components to it. But I think that the residents have confidence today because we now have a track record of paving streets request in front of you to go forward with this $800,000 project to keep moving this forward. And as the Vice Mayor stated earlier, as long as the Council continues to see this as a priority, and the likelihood of Edwards and Gerard and Santa Rosa and we got a request for Pine Street, COUNCILMEMBER PIEFER TALKED ABOUT attorney, we'll get there, but it's just going to take time. and money. And I want to applaud Todd for his good work to this day. Thank you. and appreciate his efforts. |
| 01:24:06.77 | Ray Withy | at this time hear any comments from the public? And it goes, Susan. |
| 01:24:12.74 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 01:24:16.91 | Ray Withy | How's yesterday? |
| 01:24:17.44 | Susan | I am definitely not a squeaky wheel. I didn't see Turney Street in any of the report. And I also wanted to thank Todd. I've been working with him a little bit recently. He's been very diligent, very helpful, and he's a wonderful member of staff. But I feel compelled to say something, particularly in view of the concrete street repair. Tourney is one of the oldest streets. Our neighborhood has the oldest residence in town. And it's also a main artery from Bridgeway up to the hill. We get a fair amount of traffic. at a time. best right now it's in horrible shade. and At worst, I think it could be a liability. I measured a crack today on my block of Turney Street which is about three-inch difference between the lift and the subsidence. and I don't know where that's going, but I I think someone needs to look at it from just a liability standpoint. I have heard a lot of residents from Casano who have to drive up Journey complain about the roughness, and it really needs to be looked at. I was actually quite surprised to not see it. It seems like it would be a street that would you know, need that kind of attention at this point. It is paving on both sides in concrete center, and we have severe cracking, and the, besides the number of near accidents at Bonita and Turney Street, that intersection is really in bad shape. So I'd ask staff to please take a look at Turney and consider adding it to the list. Thank you. |
| 01:26:15.56 | Ray Withy | Thank you. Thank you, Susan. Anybody else at this time? Okay, bring it back up here for any comment. Todd, I want to thank you for, you know, I know you get here early in the morning, and it was your job that really was able to get that grant from TAM on that pedestrian and bicycle study. If it wasn't for you being there, I don't think that would have gone through. So I really want to thank you for that, very much so. |
| 01:26:44.36 | Todd | Thank you for your time with that, too. |
| 01:26:46.17 | Ray Withy | Okay. Any other comments? Okay, yes, Mr. Mayor. |
| 01:26:50.76 | Thomas Theodores | Yes, I see you. I'm sorry. Okay. Well, not sorry to have a comment. Sorry we can't move on yet. So I guess my question would be just to clarify that these are the streets that are kind of in some sort of a queue that you're going out to visit and you're taking a closer look at the concrete street rehab. I'm just wondering if there might be an opportunity to take a look at the comments made regarding Tourney as well as the two potholes at Bridgeway and Gate 6 Road. |
| 01:26:52.92 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:26:53.80 | Ray Withy | Okay. |
| 01:26:57.39 | Unknown | We can't move on. |
| 01:26:58.32 | Mary Wagner | And then, |
| 01:27:25.56 | Todd | We'll take a look. |
| 01:27:27.28 | Thomas Theodores | And Edwards. |
| 01:27:27.97 | Todd | Yeah. Well, take a look at... Gate 6 Road is a little tricky because our city limit goes just up to the... |
| 01:27:36.66 | Thomas Theodores | Right. This is on Bridgeway. It's on Bridgeway, and I guess I was told it was just at Gate 6, but, I mean, as a data point. |
| 01:27:38.45 | Todd | This is on Bridgeway. |
| 01:27:45.65 | Todd | All right. We'll take a look at it. |
| 01:27:50.70 | Thomas Theodores | Well, it's okay. It's just something, just I wanted to make a comment. And I also wanted to thank you for your hard work on this, Todd. I appreciate it and I appreciate your, You're responding to residents per, you know, Adam's, you know, emails and the responsiveness to the residents. It's very important. This is the number one issue right behind bicycle traffic mitigation. It's one of the very top issues in town. |
| 01:28:15.73 | Todd | I don't know. Thank you. And to respond to Mrs. Frank, Ms. Frank's advocacy Tourney was on the list in October, but only the asphalt, as she described. There's a The middle part of it's concrete and the sides, there's eight feet on either side that's asphalt. And the concrete, there's a couple, at least a couple places where the concrete was very horrible. For better or for worse, we had a sewer repair project in November, December timeframe that got the worst one in my opinion, yet there still remains a problem out. |
| 01:28:34.73 | Mary Wagner | I know. |
| 01:28:40.73 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 01:28:58.45 | Todd | in on my recollection in the vicinity of the intersection of the need and attorney. And even though it's not on the list per se, if we can do it, we will throw in doing a localized concrete repair of that, and then we'll consider any other minor stuff. It's not quite large enough to consider the whole street, as well as we had this issue. The concrete streets are proposed as concrete because they're steep. and they're curvy. isn't, in my opinion, as deep as it needs to be to be reconstructed in concrete. |
| 01:29:37.47 | Unknown | ASSIS. |
| 01:29:37.98 | Mary Wagner | the, |
| 01:29:42.92 | Todd | So I believe it'd be a good candidate for what we did on Locust Street a few years ago, which was to which was to do some minor utility repair and then overlay the whole thing. That is a reasonable repair and those types of repairs on that type of condition are very, very durable. |
| 01:29:53.03 | Unknown | Hmm. |
| 01:30:03.86 | Todd | Because we're not doing any overlays this project, we can't do that work this time. That's the long-term, maybe next year's effort. Thank you. |
| 01:30:14.78 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:30:14.83 | Todd | Thank you. |
| 01:30:14.97 | Unknown | Okay. |
| 01:30:15.44 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 01:30:15.54 | Todd | Thank you. |
| 01:30:15.57 | Unknown | Thank you, Todd. |
| 01:30:15.59 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 01:30:15.76 | Unknown | Bye. |
| 01:30:15.84 | Todd | to the next. |
| 01:30:17.24 | Unknown | you |
| 01:30:17.29 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:30:17.40 | Unknown | I'm not saying. |
| 01:30:18.12 | Ray Withy | Yeah, I just wanted to thank Todd and Jonathan and all the good folks for doing this, but just to shed a little color over the last six years or so is, you know, the patchwork that the city does now is so much better than the patchwork that was done a decade ago in terms of, you know, if you look at the quality of the actual patch repairs that we do now, they're squares that are dug out rather than just hot asphalt being thrown down, the same thing with the concrete repairs. So your department has taken it to the next level, and we've given you the money to hire the people to take it to that next level. And that leads to these smaller repairs rather than doing the whole street. To Susan's point, your street should go on this list of something to – because it's you know, we all got very comfortable with this term, shovel-ready. And I think that's what Adam was referring to with Edwards, is that it takes a while to get these things on a list and then get all the dots crossed and A lot of the All these repairs are also based on sewer repair underneath. especially for the concrete ones. So, and then Old Town, a lot of those have to come out of the sewer, main sewer pipe. So that's sort of a dovetail of what we're trying to save money by doing two things at the same time. But, yeah, we should, it should be on the watch list. There was no watch list like this before. It was just, I am not to blame anybody, but it was just the weirdest system I'd ever seen. So, and I'm no engineer, but it didn't really balance the needs of the community and the |
| 01:31:44.10 | Ray Withy | To blame. |
| 01:31:54.44 | Ray Withy | in common sense, you know, but now we're putting the money in to do the overlays and the concrete streets. We're finally doing that, and we'll have to make that choice again, you know, this next budget year. So but, you know, we have to give these guys the time, the tools, and the money to do these things. You know, frankly, a lot of the reasons the money stacked up in prior years. |
| 01:32:12.52 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 01:32:19.55 | Ray Withy | because there wasn't anybody to do anything. It was just poor Todd. And so, He couldn't balance community development and this and all these other things and still pave the streets. And so rather than build these reserves, let's spend it. And we have the people now with Jonathan's rather than right folks and, okay, I'm going off. I've got 49 seconds. But part of it is creating a culture and getting people the tools to succeed. And this department has gotten those tools recently and we're trying to get more to improve everything, not just the streets. But certainly the streets are top of mind for everybody. But that's my diatribe for the night, hopefully. |
| 01:32:39.67 | Thomas Theodores | You know. |
| 01:32:39.97 | Mary Wagner | you |
| 01:32:40.02 | Unknown | Part of his |
| 01:32:58.77 | Ray Withy | Thank you. I'll just say one thing. San Carlos was the first cement street that we have redone in 33 years. So it shows you how far back we really have let these things go. So credit to Todd and to Jonathan. So thank you. Okay, with that, is there anything else? Let's move for a... |
| 01:33:23.29 | Unknown | I think he's going to... |
| 01:33:24.49 | Ray Withy | Thank you. No, we get here. |
| 01:33:26.46 | Unknown | Yeah. Okay. |
| 01:33:27.88 | Ray Withy | Okay, so I... |
| 01:33:29.92 | Unknown | Thank you very much. |
| 01:33:31.19 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:33:31.22 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:33:32.45 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:33:32.47 | Unknown | percent. |
| 01:33:32.98 | Unknown | Yeah, uh... |
| 01:33:34.49 | Todd | It would be great if you would make a motion authorizing this project list and directing us to the board. |
| 01:33:34.51 | Ray Withy | Exactly. |
| 01:33:34.97 | Ray Withy | It would be great if you would make it. |
| 01:33:39.17 | Ray Withy | I'll move that City Council accept the report as written by staff and provide direction. We didn't make any revisions as far as I know. So to combine the two programs into one and proceed with the process that you outlined in your staff report. Okay. |
| 01:33:40.98 | Unknown | Amen. |
| 01:33:41.48 | Todd | Thank you. |
| 01:33:47.34 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 01:34:03.10 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 01:34:03.11 | Ray Withy | Second. |
| 01:34:03.45 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 01:34:03.72 | Ray Withy | Okay, all in favor? Aye. Opposed? Thank you. Thank you, Todd. |
| 01:34:05.48 | Ray Withy | I'm sorry. |
| 01:34:05.51 | Unknown | Bye. |
| 01:34:05.97 | Thomas Theodores | Right. |
| 01:34:09.92 | Ray Withy | Okay. moving right along. behind a little, is the approval of the Humboldt Avenue pedestrian and bicycle improvement project plans. Jonathan, a little late, but you're on. |
| 01:34:23.52 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I'm going to hand out my supersized hard copies of PowerPoints. I have three color copies, so I'll leave one with the audience, one at the dais, and one with staff. |
| 01:34:26.77 | Ray Withy | We don't take handouts yet. |
| 01:34:29.15 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 01:34:29.96 | Ray Withy | or |
| 01:34:30.35 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:34:30.39 | Ray Withy | No. |
| 01:34:30.47 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 01:34:33.91 | Unknown | They won with the audience. |
| 01:34:39.65 | Ray Withy | . Thank you. Susan turned around. |
| 01:34:45.54 | Unknown | Uh-oh, you guys are in trouble now. |
| 01:34:48.53 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 01:34:52.61 | Ray Withy | Thank you. Susan, drive home carefully now. And thank you for coming. |
| 01:34:56.36 | Unknown | Amen. |
| 01:35:05.10 | Ray Withy | Oh, Jesus. Thank you. Look at this. I'm not going to try this. |
| 01:35:10.18 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:35:14.16 | Ray Withy | This is so the irony. Thank you. Blind? |
| 01:35:25.26 | Jonathon Goldman | One of my delusions in preparing them in this format was I recognize how sometimes difficult it is to interpret even at 8.5 by 11 engineering drawings that are prepared to be 36 by 44, and sometimes that's important information. In addition, one of the Um... The things that I tried to do and invested some effort in this time as opposed to the last time this item was before the council is to provide an aerial photograph behind the engineering drawing so that it's easier to tell, to compare what's proposed with what exists now. I'm not going to guarantee that that went well, but that was some of my thinking. |
| 01:36:25.81 | Jonathon Goldman | So what we have this evening from my, again, delusional perspective is actually a very simple item. Sidewalk woods on Humboldt between Anchor and Bay are too narrow and do not in places conform to California building code for cross slopes or other barriers for persons with mobility disabilities. Staff's recommendation is that we widen the sidewalks. Council approval to widen the sidewalks is necessary before any other approvals can be sought. |
| 01:37:01.01 | Jonathon Goldman | I've got some relatively ancient photographs here depicting some of these issues. This is looking from the intersection of Spinnaker Drive or Anchor towards the north along the east side. You can see a coach parking permit only sign. I don't really know where that came from, but we have Sausalito Yacht Harbor parking lot to the right. We have lot three visible in the distance. B of A is actually out of the picture to the left. Here's an example of the narrow sidewalk with encroachments and obstructions, as well as some other issues that are my department's responsibility, and I won't draw attention looking kind of in the opposite direction, same side of the street, east side of Humboldt, with passengers either waiting to get on a coach or getting off a coach. I can't really tell which, but the point here is that there's inadequate width for queuing, loading, and unloading of groups for the coaches that use that sidewalk. |
| 01:38:16.63 | Jonathon Goldman | This, I am not sure this is the correct presentation. I don't know. That's what anchor used to look like. You're right. Yeah, this is out of date. We'll see if we get where we need to go here. |
| 01:38:43.95 | Jonathon Goldman | It should be the only one in that, in the, well, look for the latest one if you don't mind. I'm sorry, Mr. Mayor. |
| 01:38:59.95 | Jonathon Goldman | Yeah, go with that one. The auto-saved one. |
| 01:39:01.90 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 01:39:11.98 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. All right. Same message. Same photograph. I have no idea why this black line is here, but this is the west side of Humboldt, also looking north. Via Bay is on your left. Inadequate width with parking here, what used to be signage for the pay stations. And then looking in the opposite direction, this is looking south. Via Bay is here. West side, inadequate width. Excessive cross slopes. an example later. But the. looking in the opposite direction. This is looking south. Via Bay is here. West side, inadequate width, excessive cross slopes. I'll show an example later, but the driveway entrance into lot two, it takes the full width of the sidewalk. And then there are other sidewalks |
| 01:39:30.17 | Todd | Oh. |
| 01:39:43.67 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 01:39:56.48 | Jonathon Goldman | you was a parking space here and a parking space here that actually a person in a wheelchair, in avoiding the cross slope, would have to go into the traveled way in lot too in order to not fall off the cross slope. This, again, is kind of a modification of an image that Council saw previously. Fundamentally, it is intended to show the aerial photograph, uh, what, is essentially there now. It's actually a 2009 aerial photograph. but then we're overlaying the proposed area that we would widen sidewalks. You can see on the east side there's a tour coach parked here. We're basically proposing to widen the sidewalk one entire vehicle lane width. There's a little bit of widening, and I have some other slides that show this based on the photographs I showed you, but a little bit of widening to the back, but preserving landscape strip between this widened sidewalk and the South Slater Yacht Harbor parking lot. In addition, we're proposing to change the entry and exit to lot two, eliminate the head-in diagonal parking, and create parallel parking in this part of Humboldt on the other side. And then eliminate, and I don't think I mentioned this the last time Council saw this, but for the very reason I talked about a minute ago, eliminate these two parking spaces in lot two. And this is a little bit misleading, but establish a continuous sidewalk along the entire alignment of the base of the Bank of America building. I'll show you some more images of that in a minute. |
| 01:41:50.11 | Thomas Theodores | Jonathan, should we ask questions now or should we wait until the end of the presentation? |
| 01:41:52.75 | Jonathon Goldman | until the end of the presentation. I'll be happy to come back to this if you have a question in the presentation. And then I have 95 slides of background information that I'm not planning to show unless questions on background. So is that a wait? That sounds like a wait. Yes, if you don't. |
| 01:41:57.17 | Thomas Theodores | OK. |
| 01:42:06.15 | Thomas Theodores | So is that a wait? That sounds like a wait. |
| 01:42:11.23 | Jonathon Goldman | I apologize for this, but these are dimensioned cross sections that are very difficult to see showing both the existing roadway and then what's proposed in the widening. The takeaway from this is that on the tour coach side of Humboldt, we're proposing to to widen, as I suggested, on the order of seven feet. In other words, move the face of curb seven feet out into the paved area and then move the sidewalk about a foot further back so that we end up with a total of 15 feet of sidewalk still preserving a planted strip and landscaping. On the other side, I can't see this and didn't save a copy. It's on the order of... 10 feet of total widening there. We're taking some credit for losing those parking spaces. We want to widen the east side by eight feet while preserving the landscape strip between the sidewalk and Sauceriat Harbor parking lot. We want to widen the west side by 10 feet, including loss of two substandard parking spaces in lot two and conversion of those seven head-end diagonal spaces to four parallel spaces. |
| 01:43:42.53 | Jonathon Goldman | It's a little bit hard to see, but I've tried to project the line from the face of B of A showing you where the back of the sidewalk would be with this proposed widening, and then also show you where we would go out into the traveled way on the other side. So I'm happy to answer any questions about that part of the presentation if you have them now. And then, as I said, I have a lot of background information if it's of value to the Council in trying to figure out how staff and our consultants got to this place in the process. |
| 01:44:17.69 | Thomas Theodores | Mr. Mayor, I have some questions. So first of all, I guess one is process. Why is this plan starting here as opposed to going through planning commission and receiving design input before coming to council? |
| 01:44:35.12 | Jonathon Goldman | The short answer is that I'm not allowed to do that. |
| 01:44:38.53 | Unknown | You're the applicant, then it goes to the Planning Commission. Correct. You're the applicant. You're the owner of Humboldt. I understand. |
| 01:44:40.30 | Thomas Theodores | No. |
| 01:44:42.46 | Jonathon Goldman | Correct. Here is the owner of Humboldt. I understand. Without your consensus, your approval for staff to take something to planning commission, I don't have the authority to do it. |
| 01:44:46.46 | Thomas Theodores | you |
| 01:44:46.54 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:44:46.58 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 01:44:53.81 | Thomas Theodores | So if council votes on this proposal and the planning commission says, no, this is a mess, or community input says, no, we have grave concerns about this, or there are issues with 1128, then what happens? |
| 01:45:13.91 | Jonathon Goldman | It depends on what the issue is. To be honest, I would be surprised given the amount of community input that we've already received on these plans if anything like that would happen, but it depends on what happens. |
| 01:45:30.11 | Thomas Theodores | So if there is, in other words, at the planning commission stage, there is opportunity for substantial change. |
| 01:45:38.21 | Jonathon Goldman | Certainly the Planning Commission, to the extent that they have jurisdiction over a sidewalk widening project and wants to see substantial change, if it is in fact substantial, I have to come back to City Council for direction as to whether to pursue that. Thank you. |
| 01:45:56.24 | Adam Politzer | Mr. May, can I, I'm sorry, can I just interject? |
| 01:45:56.27 | Jonathon Goldman | Mr. Ray. |
| 01:46:00.15 | Adam Politzer | What's important, going back to your process question, IS RECOGNIZING THAT We have, The first question, so it's important to point out that it says pause for questions here because we're only part way through this presentation. But what Jonathan is stating is before we can even go to the next step, we're proposing that we widen the sidewalks. And if the Council agrees with widening the sidewalks, Then we actually have to go and do the design work, which we've given you some preliminary work that we've done back in 2009 and some additional drawings that have happened recently here this past, you know, at the end of December or the beginning of January as stated when Jonathan came before. Once we come to the council, it's no different than Vina del Mar or the bathroom project where we bring forward, here's what we are giving you as a conceptual design. then if if the council likes that or wants to have alternatives considered and give direction, then that would then go on into the planning process, which would the Planning Commission. So this initial step is, here are some conceptual designs, which we haven't yet got to, and we probably won't get there. That's not even what we're asking for tonight. But this is the start of that process. |
| 01:47:21.35 | Thomas Theodores | And the 2009, you're talking about the bike plans because those were very controversial. |
| 01:47:27.34 | Adam Politzer | Yeah, they're not necessarily bike plans. some of those documents included, circulation routes which included bike paths But that plan got us the $250,000 to make the improvements to these sidewalks on Bay and Anchor. That's right. I remember it was… And so, which had no bike, you know, those aren't bike facilities. |
| 01:47:44.22 | Thomas Theodores | That's right. I remember it was Right, and that was supported, yeah. So my next question is going back to the slides earlier. So you're saying right now that what you're presenting to council is a sidewalk widening project? |
| 01:48:07.10 | Jonathon Goldman | What I am asking Council to approve is widening the sidewalks on Humboldt. |
| 01:48:16.15 | Thomas Theodores | Okay, because the agenda item says pedestrian and bicycle improvement project plans. |
| 01:48:21.48 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 01:48:21.77 | Unknown | Christ. |
| 01:48:22.20 | Jonathon Goldman | So. |
| 01:48:22.20 | Thomas Theodores | So with widening the sidewalk, you're not talking about pedestrians. You're including this bicycle path. |
| 01:48:29.19 | Jonathon Goldman | I'm the Fundamentally, The bicycle facility, and I do have more slides about this, is strictly a question of whether we want $83,000 of federal transportation fund for clean air money in order to help us construct this. |
| 01:48:48.66 | Thomas Theodores | Where would the bike path run here? |
| 01:48:52.02 | Jonathon Goldman | The conceptual plans that the city manager has alluded to, and they're actually in your staff report, are that this portion of the west side of Humboldt that is depicted here with score marks would be colored differently and would be marked with sharrows to indicate that it's available for bicycles to use instead of having to ride against traffic on both ends. |
| 01:49:24.15 | Thomas Theodores | Okay, and just a reference to, I reviewed my staff report and I saw the diagrams, and I regret that it was hard for me to make them out because they were kind of sketchy. |
| 01:49:24.20 | Jonathon Goldman | of the Okay. |
| 01:49:33.97 | Unknown | Sketchy. |
| 01:49:35.90 | Thomas Theodores | So when you say the bike path here, are the bikes, would it be the mirrored Bike path on the other side of the street too? Is that what we're looking at? |
| 01:49:47.15 | Jonathon Goldman | Is that what we're looking at? Again, the conceptual plan at this point is we're asking council to approve the widening of sidewalks. If the council wants to spend the TIFCA money, $83,000, to help fund these improvements, we need to identify a bicycle facility that satisfies Transportation Authority of Marin and whatever other federal agencies is involved. But where that facility is located and the configuration of that facility hasn't been determined. And I'm not necessarily asking that Council weigh in on where that ought to be tonight. Of course, you're welcome to. |
| 01:50:21.48 | Thomas Theodores | I know. |
| 01:50:28.89 | Thomas Theodores | So, |
| 01:50:36.04 | Thomas Theodores | No, I just wanted clarity because the agenda item says pedestrian and bicycle improvement project plans, and then you're saying it's a sidewalk widening, and then you're suggesting that perhaps the bike lane would be down here on this side, but then you're stepping back and saying, You know, it's all up to counsel with respect. Yeah, fairness. |
| 01:50:53.10 | Adam Politzer | Yeah, in fairness to the Public Works Director, I think we were just trying to be as transparent as possible. Normally, This would be viewed as a multi use path. And so I think taking the extra step to say the multi-use path could be could be depending on what the council directs and as it goes through the community, public, process. including the Planning Commission, We may come back and say we don't want any bicycles on this path and what the Public Works Director is stating. That is at our discretion, and if we choose that discretion, then we're saying that we can't use those funds, the TAM is designated to us for this particular project. |
| 01:51:34.56 | Thomas Theodores | So you're not recommending, Jonathan, it is a question, Mr. Mayor. So, Jonathan, you're not recommending here in this plan that there would be a bike path on the other side of the street. Correct. Okay. So you're suggesting that perhaps the path on this side, funding Bank of America, would be the bike path or multi-use path or what have you, on both directions, going both directions. Okay. |
| 01:51:35.68 | Adam Politzer | I'm recommending... |
| 01:51:46.34 | Valerie Pitts | Correct. |
| 01:52:00.03 | Jonathon Goldman | Um, I'm not suggesting that it would go both directions. The conceptual plans that we have are not |
| 01:52:08.14 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 01:52:08.16 | Unknown | Okay. |
| 01:52:11.32 | Jonathon Goldman | ride your bicycle in either direction on that path. Okay. The direction of that path is from Lot 3 to Anchor, and then subsequently bicycles would have to get into Lot 1, but we haven't, we don't have plans for that at this moment. |
| 01:52:14.07 | Unknown | Okay. |
| 01:52:28.51 | Thomas Theodores | So where would the entrance be for the B of A parking lot if you're removing them here? |
| 01:52:34.11 | Jonathon Goldman | The entrance for vehicles? Yes. You mean lot two? |
| 01:52:35.94 | Thomas Theodores | Yes. Yeah. |
| 01:52:38.13 | Jonathon Goldman | Yes. Vehicles would enter here and then exit here. |
| 01:52:43.21 | Thomas Theodores | Oh, so we would keep the entrance and exit for lot two then? |
| 01:52:48.00 | Adam Politzer | Jonathan, I think you actually put that backwards, so the entrance would be from right to left. |
| 01:52:54.67 | Jonathon Goldman | I'd have to look at what has... |
| 01:52:57.15 | Adam Politzer | So that they come in and they enter the flow of the arrows that are going back out Humboldt. So Humboldt is one way. We want the traffic to come into the parking lot back out. The parking lot is from what my memory serves. So they're not crossing. We don't want them to cross over. |
| 01:53:09.47 | Ray Withy | So they're not crossing. Male Speaker 1st 1st 1st |
| 01:53:12.15 | Adam Politzer | THE END OF and |
| 01:53:16.99 | Thomas Theodores | CORRECT. |
| 01:53:17.18 | Jonathon Goldman | as it is now. Where is the entrance? |
| 01:53:17.96 | Adam Politzer | Thank you. |
| 01:53:17.97 | Ray Withy | Now, |
| 01:53:18.65 | Thomas Theodores | Where is the entrance? Where is the entrance? |
| 01:53:21.26 | Jonathon Goldman | It's a shared driveway that isn't wide enough for two-way traffic. So the recommendation from our consultants is let's separate those. Frankly, I don't think it matters which is which, although the configuration of the lot is also relevant to this. |
| 01:53:23.71 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 01:53:23.74 | Thomas Theodores | I know. |
| 01:53:23.96 | Ray Withy | No. |
| 01:53:28.89 | Ray Withy | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 01:53:36.55 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:53:41.63 | Thomas Theodores | Where would the end, I haven't gotten an answer. I'm sorry, Councilmember Leon. Where are the cars going in? I'm confused. |
| 01:53:48.21 | Ray Withy | Excuse me, I think it's fair to open it up so others can ask questions. Thank you. Alright. Yes, Mr. Mayor. |
| 01:53:55.59 | Thomas Theodores | Yes, Mr. Mayor, I was just trying to get an answer. |
| 01:53:57.66 | Ray Withy | Mr. Mayor, maybe I can... I can't deal with everybody else here. |
| 01:53:58.02 | Adam Politzer | Maybe I can. Mr. Mayor, maybe I can help. I think what we're trying to say, what staff is trying to say here, is that, these specifications will be made. as a presentation to the Council once as the owner of the property, once we have real designs. the, 2009 information that has been brought before the council shows that there will be two driveways, as has been shared. And the first driveway as an enter driveway would come in where the light is now. Yes. the cars would circulate back around and come and exit out that side and continue that way. But I think what the Public Works Director was stating there, which may have created the confusion, |
| 01:54:40.71 | Mary Wagner | Okay, thank you. |
| 01:54:47.61 | Adam Politzer | is that the engineers, the traffic engineers and the designers will advise us on what makes most sense on the circulation and traffic flow Um, because of the driving conditions. All cars have to stop before they exit the the street. because you're required to stop before you cross the stop block. So I think that's why when the Public Works Director said it may not make a difference, That was meaning that you're required to stop regardless. But I think the experts will tell us and I think it will come back to what I just stated that it will be from right to left. Enter from the right, exit to the left. |
| 01:55:24.16 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 01:55:24.20 | Thomas Theodores | Okay, thank you. |
| 01:55:26.22 | Ray Withy | Mary, can I ask a question? Who owns this land? |
| 01:55:26.27 | Adam Politzer | uh, |
| 01:55:31.17 | Mary Wagner | Who owns the land or the right of way? I don't have that. |
| 01:55:31.96 | Ray Withy | Yeah. I know. |
| 01:55:34.04 | Jonathon Goldman | But... |
| 01:55:34.26 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:55:34.83 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 01:55:34.90 | Unknown | Right. Thank you. |
| 01:55:35.56 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 01:55:36.35 | Jonathon Goldman | My, at the risk of overstating my knowledge, Humboldt Avenue in this segment, to the best of my knowledge, is public right-of-way, which means that it is not owned and fee titled by anybody and that the city of Sausalito as the steward is responsible for maintaining it as public right-of-way. I know that there's some dispute about ownership of a number of areas of public right of way as well as properties and fee title, but there's no parcel number assigned to this segment of Humboldt Avenue, unlike the case with some of the other portions of it. |
| 01:55:59.47 | Mary Wagner | What? Right. |
| 01:56:14.47 | Ray Withy | So where is the property line? And my question is, okay, so when the city adopted an ordinance in 2002 or 2003, sort of pushing the responsibility for maintenance of sidewalks back onto property owners, I think it treats commercial owners the same as residential. If you have frontage on a street and it doesn't meet requirements for safe passage, that you're responsible for maintaining it. So why are we paying for this? |
| 01:56:44.56 | Jonathon Goldman | Let me see if I can answer some of those questions, unless you want to jump in. |
| 01:56:44.89 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 01:56:44.94 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:56:45.05 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 01:56:49.33 | Ray Withy | Well, I wanted to just know what the interpretation of that sidewalk ordinance that was passed. Why are the property owners not contributing to this? |
| 01:56:51.09 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. |
| 01:56:56.54 | Mary Wagner | Okay, I think. I think there's a difference between maintenance and uh, and improvement or alteration of the sidewalk. There's a difference between the sidewalk ordinance about a crack and a change in its location. I don't have the ordinance in front of me, and if you want us to bring that back, I'd be happy to. But I think there's a difference in they'll look to the public works director if he had something to add to that. There's a difference between the sidewalk ordinance saying you gotta fix the trip and fall hazard in front of your property and this project. |
| 01:57:34.10 | Ray Withy | I don't think so. I think that you're responsible for maintenance and construction of a new one if it fails in front of your house. I mean, that's what that, I think it really, it... |
| 01:57:35.18 | Mary Wagner | I think. |
| 01:57:42.49 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. I... |
| 01:57:43.70 | Ray Withy | So why is a commercial property owner being exempted from that? |
| 01:57:46.93 | Jonathon Goldman | First of all, Mr. Vice Mayor, by no means... I'm not blaming you. I know. I'd like to talk for a second. Sure. |
| 01:57:50.42 | Ray Withy | I'm not blaming you, I'm wondering, because this, this, |
| 01:57:52.63 | Unknown | Bye. |
| 01:57:53.54 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 01:57:53.56 | Unknown | Sure. |
| 01:57:55.40 | Jonathon Goldman | I don't think anyone is suggesting that anyone is being anyone's obligation is being removed by asking the council to approve the widening of sidewalks on Humboldt. Secondly, the city of Sausalito owns a significant portion of the frontage with Municipal Lot 2. |
| 01:58:16.20 | Ray Withy | We don't know that because all these lands are in dispute. And it was part of that whole agreement that just happened with the bulkhead that none of this was clarified. So to my knowledge, |
| 01:58:18.23 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. |
| 01:58:26.92 | Jonathon Goldman | I respectfully disagree. |
| 01:58:29.05 | Ray Withy | No, it was just kind of like the kick the can. So we're going to be making improvements on land that's disputed in ownership. I mean, that's where we need some clarification here. And not to doubt your knowledge, you know, it should be |
| 01:58:42.85 | Adam Politzer | I think that's a very different discussion item than what we're talking about here. I asked the city clerk to pull up this photo. |
| 01:58:42.90 | Ray Withy | Yeah. |
| 01:58:54.49 | Adam Politzer | you know, any dispute of who is using this sidewalk and obviously this street light right in the middle of it is the city's responsibility. We can take a separate item during the priority calendar process to identify what the issues and property rights are and revisit this, I think, during the bulkhead project We did have a discussion and we agreed that the settlement that was reached between the two parties was the settlement. wanting to reopen that discussion. If this particular council wants to reopen that discussion, they can direct staff to do so. This project is we have facilities that are not adequate to handle the level of traffic, |
| 01:59:35.77 | Mary Wagner | Yes. |
| 01:59:42.42 | Adam Politzer | pedestrian traffic, Bicycle traffic. And as the Public Works Director talked about, is out of code and creates also some public challenges. |
| 01:59:53.40 | Ray Withy | Right, but you're putting, for the sake of clarity and to borrow Linda's transparency, you owe it to the public to know for sure if you're spending public dollars on a project that would otherwise, maybe it's not, the uses would be different, obviously, if this was just a private sidewalk in front of a store or it wouldn't have a multi-use bike path or whatever. we owe it to the taxpayers so that they know that the cost that they would have to pay themselves if it was sitting in front of their door is the same as what this property owner would have to pay It's in front of their parking lot. And part of what we tried to do was to get some clarification from that from the property owner and actually use part of that that's an oversized so we wouldn't have to encroach into the street. But nobody wanted to go down that path. So because they didn't want to piss these people off. In turn, here's this situation where I just want to make sure everybody's treated the same, you know, and we owe it to the people who pay taxes to make sure everyone's treated the same. It doesn't matter what you're allocating, federal, state, or local tax dollars, we still should treat this as an obligation that we have to make sure we're treating everyone who has to put money into the pot the same. |
| 02:01:04.72 | Adam Politzer | Yeah, I respect that. |
| 02:01:17.90 | Adam Politzer | Respectfully, the city staff thinks that. It is clear on where the property is the city's responsibility and the private property owner's responsibility. If the council wants to direct staff to reopen that discussion, then they have the right to do that. |
| 02:01:34.94 | Ray Withy | that is separate from that agreement, Adam. It is the same obligations that any property owner had on the sidewalk. |
| 02:01:38.40 | Adam Politzer | Thank you. And I'm stating that the city staff feels that in the bulkhead discussion that that was thoroughly vetted and direction was clearly given to staff to move forward. and we don't think that anything has changed in the interpretation of what was being discussed then. to what's being discussed now that will affect this project. |
| 02:01:58.70 | Ray Withy | Those are two separate issues. I beg to differ with you. The bulkhead has nothing to do with the sidewalk. And if it's all on city property, then it's a city responsibility. If this has the same obligation, if it was across the street, And Bank of America, we're also doing it for Bank of America. Who owns that lot? Why are we doing the improvements to their side? Well, we own them, right? We don't own that where Bank of America sits. |
| 02:02:15.83 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 02:02:15.85 | Adam Politzer | We don't know Right We don't Yeah. |
| 02:02:19.42 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 02:02:19.44 | Adam Politzer | Thank you. |
| 02:02:19.49 | Ray Withy | Yeah, but not a lot. |
| 02:02:19.88 | Adam Politzer | I think what I'm stating is that when we went through the bulkhead process, and I agree with you that the bulkhead is its own project, We looked at all of the land around the bulkhead because as the council remembers and the public remembers, We were talking about a variety of designs opportunities. Michael Rex was in here talking about moving the street. We were looking at all of the property. boundaries and I think as we looked at the Restroom improvement, we looked at the land, uses related to the Bank of America and what was the responsibility of the city. I think from staff's perspective it is clear, but if council wants to give different direction, you have the authority to do just that. |
| 02:03:02.00 | Thomas Theodores | Mr. Mayor? Yes. So, Adam, do we have like a legal opinion regarding this whole issue? Because I mean, when I first started this discussion and asked a question about process, I was told that we were going through this plan because we were the property owners. And now I'm hearing that there is dispute with respect to who should be maintaining the sidewalks. And so I'm just wondering if we should get a legal opinion on that. |
| 02:03:02.25 | Adam Politzer | Yes. |
| 02:03:28.88 | Mary Wagner | And, and, |
| 02:03:29.19 | Thomas Theodores | And another legal opinion I would personally be interested in is one with respect to 11 ordinance 1128 and the reduction of parking not only along Humboldt but also in parking lot too. |
| 02:03:43.01 | Adam Politzer | I think that the council has to be clear on the direction that they want to give to staff. What the discussion that the vice mayor and myself were just having was related to the dispute between the Saucyuta Yacht Harbor and the city of Saucyuta that goes back years and years and years. And there was a settlement reached there. And when we were having negotiations with the Sasso to Yacht Harbor on the bulkhead project, we concluded that the information that was provided to us by staff, both by our city attorney and by our Public Works Director, and everybody else that was involved in that discussion, that there was no further interpretation necessary. Um, The. The discussion here, the project before the Council, Um, It really is a separate issue. Now, I understand that the Vice Mayor feels differently, and Council Member Pfeiffer, you may agree with him, and that's an opportunity. But I don't want to confuse these two projects. 1128 is another different issue. That's a separate issue, and we can talk about that. maybe later on this slide or give direction to staff to come back with more information. But they're separate. There is case law and there is challenges out there on the issue about maintenance of the sidewalks. And many cities try to enact the policy that The sidewalk was the responsibility of the private owner. but those were fought and most cities haven't yet been able to get a private owner to fix those sidewalks. We have examples right here on Caledonia Street. where we're taking out trees and we're replacing sidewalks. In front of homes, a lot of folks, well, a good example is on Watery Street. Not only did we repave the street, thank you very much, Todd, but we also got a safe route for schools grant, and we built them a sidewalk in front of their home. It's important that we don't cloud this up. There's an opportunity to cloud this up. the public works director was trying to do at the very beginning on the first side is to keep this simple. The process in front of you is not to design this tonight, It's just to get your authority, that you are in agreement that the sidewalks on both sides, regardless to what uses come to those sidewalks that we agree that the width of this sidewalk needs to be wider, and the width of the sidewalk on the other side of the street needs to be wider. recommendation to go back to the Madden's, the Yacht Harbor property owners and talk to them about encroaching into their property, which may be our property, we can have that discussion. We haven't given up on that. And we will. |
| 02:06:31.47 | Unknown | And we will. Thank you. |
| 02:06:33.24 | Adam Politzer | No, no, no, and we will. And we already have started that conversation with them because of the success that we've had with the bulkhead project, the trust that Jonathan and Charlie have gained with them on a successful outcome of that project They are open for other discussions. |
| 02:06:47.23 | Ray Withy | It's not a negotiation here. It is the same. I'm just saying treat them the same as you treat Any project that goes through planning, that the city requires you to redo the whole sidewalk at your own expense, right? not maintenance. And somehow there's some different application of this rule. |
| 02:07:11.12 | Jonathon Goldman | I'm sorry, Mr. Vice Mayor. I completely disagree. I agree with the principle that these property owners, including the city, should be treated consistently with every other project that happens in the city. And you have my word that that's exactly what's going on here and what goes on elsewhere in the city. Neither Saucedo Yacht Harbor nor B of A is before you this evening asking to do anything with respect to these sidewalks. It's your staff and your consultants that we've spent public money developing plans to try to accommodate the large numbers of pedestrians that are guests in our city and benefit the community. |
| 02:07:48.01 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 02:07:53.08 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. |
| 02:07:53.09 | Ray Withy | This goes back to. |
| 02:07:53.13 | Jonathon Goldman | We have developed plans that can do so entirely within the public right of way without having to acquire private property or property that is arguably private or that it is in dispute nor are we asking that these are indicating that these are maintenance activities. These are capital improvement activities. |
| 02:08:06.93 | Ray Withy | Yeah. |
| 02:08:10.52 | Ray Withy | Right. So my question was originally is, is this public property? Thank you. or still just disputed property of who owns what. of even the street here. My memory is it's disputed property. And then what comes of that if you apply I was never a fan of this sidewalk ordinance. I thought it was a sleight of hand by the city to push both legal responsibility back onto a property owner and the cost of maintenance of a sidewalk But if that's the law, we should be applying it equitably. So my two questions are who owns this and therefore who's responsible and if it is Um... If it's a private property, because I don't know where the property line is here, then. We should apply whatever those restrictions are. Maybe you're correct. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying I want to know because it's not here. Right? everyone in the city, whether it's commercial, It's just treated the same and the laws are applied equitably. whether they're a good idea, a bad idea, we can go back and change that law someday if it's a bad idea or if it's legally challengeable. But. at least now let's make sure that we're treating people the same. |
| 02:09:30.61 | Adam Politzer | I think it's a fair request and I think as this moves through the process, we'd be happy to clarify that information. |
| 02:09:39.62 | Jonathon Goldman | And just, if I may, just add to that, I absolutely agree. We will work, I'll work with the city attorney to confirm my interpretation, which, by the way, was upheld by the state of California in granting us the state revolving fund loan to lay the sewer here, and that we actually have a legal opinion on ownership for this portion of Humboldt-On. So we'll make sure you have that at your next meeting. |
| 02:10:03.82 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:10:03.84 | Ray Withy | Okay. |
| 02:10:05.63 | Unknown | . |
| 02:10:07.25 | Ray Withy | So many questions for me. You have another question? go. |
| 02:10:12.80 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you, Mr. Mayor. So going back to the coach parking, or if we remove the coach parking when we widen the sidewalks, where, I mean, is the coach, are you proposing to push the coach parking out, or what is the solution? |
| 02:10:31.58 | Jonathon Goldman | What is the solution? Yes, they're adequate for the same number of coaches to stage as there is now. |
| 02:10:32.73 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:10:38.47 | Thomas Theodores | Okay, so basically then the main road would be reduced to one lane instead of, I guess, the two... Technically it's one lane when the buses are parked along, but I'm just, because I see this, it is sidewalk widening, but at the same time, It's a very, very big sidewalk if we widen it. So to me, it's obviously, you know, a multi-use setup. |
| 02:11:06.48 | Jonathon Goldman | No. set. The proposed configuration of the paved section of Humboldt, two 11-foot-wide bus lanes and one 16.6-foot-wide traveled way with eight feet for the parallel parking. |
| 02:11:31.29 | Jonathon Goldman | All right. So again, you can see from here, just based on the tees that are on the ground now, there's one entire lane that remains undisturbed. There's room for another lane. There's room for the parallel parking, eight feet of parallel parking, and then 16, 17 |
| 02:11:38.46 | Unknown | you |
| 02:11:44.90 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:11:45.14 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 02:11:51.71 | Thomas Theodores | And this is reducing parking on Humboldt earlier. It was from 12 spaces to was it seven? |
| 02:11:59.03 | Jonathon Goldman | It's 7 to 4 or 5. |
| 02:12:04.14 | Thomas Theodores | reducing |
| 02:12:05.46 | Jonathon Goldman | That count doesn't look right, though, based on what's there. We lost one when we did... Yeah, that's right. That changed. |
| 02:12:11.94 | Ray Withy | Yeah, that's right. That changed. There are 12. We've got 12. |
| 02:12:14.28 | Thomas Theodores | I'm not sure. |
| 02:12:14.45 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you, sir. |
| 02:12:15.47 | Thomas Theodores | You lost two. We've got 12 right now. |
| 02:12:18.37 | Ray Withy | Yeah, but there's two that when they, that was done before they did the ADA compliance right there. So that's all changed. There's two spaces. |
| 02:12:28.22 | Jonathon Goldman | Okay. I relied on the account that Royston Hanamoto did. |
| 02:12:33.77 | Unknown | Mm. Yeah. |
| 02:12:34.40 | Jonathon Goldman | Yeah. I know what they're doing. |
| 02:12:35.92 | Unknown | So we're reducing how many spaces to how many spaces? |
| 02:12:39.82 | Jonathon Goldman | We're eliminating two in lot two that are substandard right now. We're eliminating seven on Humboldt and replacing them with four parallel on Humboldt. |
| 02:12:50.31 | Thomas Theodores | Okay. And is there, I notice sometimes downtown that the coach buses double park and it gets very congested. And if we're going to be looking at expanding these sidewalks and then the coach buses come up, do we have a way of mitigating to make sure and enforcing that they're not going to, that this proposal would be sufficient to accommodate those coaches and that they would not double park in peeding into the main road. |
| 02:13:24.77 | Jonathon Goldman | The conceptual plans that you have seen and that I just showed the cross-section for, there are two lanes for coaches, the same as there are now. So there's no change in the ability to accommodate two rows of coaches in that space. |
| 02:13:41.98 | Unknown | Oh, I see. Oh, I didn't realize we had that much space in the middle of the road. Okay. |
| 02:13:49.07 | Ray Withy | Okay, any questions from the public? Let's bring it back up. I'd like to make some comments. Can you go back to showing what the street is? I've lived with this baby for four, five years. Now let me explain to you how I look at it. This is our transit hub. This is our transit hub. This is the way you get, on average, during the summertime, 30 to 35 buses during Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, maybe Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, it's anywhere from 30 to 50 buses, combinations of coach. So basically your hub is your anchor, You're humbled. And you obey. |
| 02:14:35.01 | Mary Wagner | And you're bad. |
| 02:14:36.25 | Ray Withy | All right. What we do is, when this happens, And I like this for a couple of reasons. On the east side, when you look at that widening there, You can see where the pole is blocking. |
| 02:14:49.53 | Todd | You can't. |
| 02:14:49.87 | Ray Withy | let 50 people You will find out that you've got 50 people on the bus. If you're rolling down there, and then you're going to have bicycles rolling in there, it would be too congested. There's no question about it. On the other side of the road, on the east side, you could see by, first of all, that angle parking is probably the most dangerous angle parking I've ever seen in my life. |
| 02:15:15.84 | Unknown | in my life. you |
| 02:15:17.26 | Ray Withy | I hate to tell you how many times I've had to yell at people to stop because they just pull out. And once again, you know, a lot of it's due because people rely on the mirror. They don't turn their necks, so they go out. This move would allow the buses. where you see the automobiles, For six months. that might not even exist. in the summertime, because that's where we put the small shuttles. You put the larger shuttles on anchor. You put the larger shuttles on bay, and you put the little ones right along here. |
| 02:15:54.69 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:15:55.04 | Ray Withy | Now, what we do is when we load up and we are full, when I'm at a point where I got 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 7.15, now I have 15 coaches or large buses and probably five small shuttles. And then when they come in, and we are full. All right, we'll say it around 1230, 1245. We have someone standing there, namely me, and what we do is then we send them along the bend to bay, and they are only allowed five minutes to drop off at the |
| 02:16:26.04 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:16:29.84 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:16:32.41 | Ray Withy | the transit bus, because they're only running once an hour, so we let them have five minutes to drop off, and if we don't have a space there, then they're told that they've got to go down and wait down near 7-Eleven. and come back when they're designated times. So this is your transit hub, and it's not gonna get smaller. It's, look, the amount of buses and people coming in, it's greater, and I've seen it now for four or five years. It's increased and increased. As far as putting the bicycles on that side there, I really don't have, oh, my time's up, okay. There'll be more of you. That's okay, that's fine. Is there a question there, by the way? No, I brought it back up for comment. |
| 02:17:12.80 | Unknown | Is there a question there, by the way? No, I brought it back up to comment. Thank you. |
| 02:17:17.80 | Ray Withy | Okay, so I have my minute somewhere. Any other comment? you |
| 02:17:21.92 | Thomas Theodores | I have comments. |
| 02:17:21.93 | Ray Withy | I'm sorry. You got him? |
| 02:17:23.92 | Thomas Theodores | So I look at this and I see yet another reduction in parking. I feel like I'm reticent to move forward on. these plans, regardless of whether I really like them or not, because I would feel more comfortable having a legal written opinion on Ordinance 1128 with respect to the impact downtown. To Councilmember Leon's point earlier, I think it is a compelling question, which is are any of the commercial businesses responsible for kicking in some assistance with the sidewalk repair? And beyond that, those are my two biggest concerns. |
| 02:18:19.54 | Ray Withy | Well, let me jump in for my minute if I can continue. If that's okay. Let's let everyone have their three minutes and then go back for your |
| 02:18:20.62 | Adam Politzer | Thank you. |
| 02:18:20.64 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:18:20.67 | Adam Politzer | you |
| 02:18:20.73 | Unknown | I'm not. |
| 02:18:20.89 | Adam Politzer | Mm. |
| 02:18:25.50 | Adam Politzer | let everyone have their three minutes and then go back for your minutes |
| 02:18:28.10 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 02:18:28.25 | Adam Politzer | Thank you. |
| 02:18:31.25 | Thomas Theodores | I won't take three minutes. |
| 02:18:33.06 | Unknown | And |
| 02:18:35.74 | Thomas Theodores | I think it should be remembered that this is just the beginning of this process and it's going back to the planning. It would go to the Planning Commission if we as the owners of this project want it to. That's the purpose of today's action, I believe. With regards to ownership of properties and who should be paying for this cycle, I must confused or potentially alarmed. I don't know which. But I'm struggling to see how we can expect, for example, Bank of America to pay for a sidewalk that we're requesting to widen in front of our own parking lot. And then the second thing, likewise, how we can get a property owner, force a property owner, to actually pay for widening a sidewalk, when the reason we're widening a sidewalk is to reduce our liability for people getting off of a coach and falling over or being injured in the street. I just don't get it. |
| 02:19:44.22 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:19:44.83 | Thomas Theodores | You know, we're the project owners. By our application, we can't force another property owner to just fork out money. Doesn't make sense. So I think at this early stage, this conceptual stage, it's going back for the Planning Commission. If we don't start taking action, then no project will ever get to the Planning Commission. Thank you. You got, I yield my one minute, 24 seconds to the chair. Well, I also agree. |
| 02:20:10.94 | Thomas Theodores | Well, I also agree. I think, first of all, I think all these issues should be addressed. And I think we should find a way, I think we have a catch-22 here, and we should just decide that we're gonna go with sidewalk widening. and go through the planning process on all these issues, including legal opinions. And I think we have a duty to take a look at the sidewalk and property owners and whether it meets or violates 1128, but I'm certainly happy to have that because we're not going to resolve those issues here. and passed the resolution with the caveat that, again, we can take a look at it after it goes through all these things. And I think this is a good discussion. We're raising all the issues so that these aren't raised after the planning process. |
| 02:20:57.26 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:20:57.27 | Ray Withy | Okay. |
| 02:21:01.06 | Ray Withy | Okay, I'll take my minute. This is totally for me a safety issue. Totally. In other words, those are to our benefits. Someone, like it was mentioned, falls on the sidewalk. They're not going to sue them. They're going to sue the city. All right? Because we allowed, we set it up for X amount of, you know, if it was in front of a business, I would agree with you. But this is different. This is our transit hub. And that's the only reason that I say that is that we have to accommodate what we, are now facing a very saturated situation. In other words, This, I'm hoping that with these moves and these changes, we will be able to accommodate maybe another 10, 20% increase and still be able to safely have vehicles continue on. You look at the record. I think if you want the chief, you look and see how many accidents have taken place on Humboldt since we have done this, and you will find out it's minimal, almost nothing. |
| 02:22:11.29 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:22:11.96 | Ray Withy | I'll just use my minute and then we can move forward because there's a whole other part of this. But my point, and not to get in there with Johnny G too badly and Adam as well, is that I agree with you or Tom who said that whatever these issues are, let's raise them now and... |
| 02:22:21.16 | Unknown | Well, |
| 02:22:33.24 | Ray Withy | deal with them and educate you guys as well as re-educate the rest of us of what the situation is. I'm not so concerned about 1128s in terms of the Thank you. this situation here, but it's more of a cost-sharing situation that I wanted to put forward. If the sidewalk ordinance is phrased a certain way that doesn't apply here or if by designating this as bus parking or whatever, we're creating the extra liability, but that – I don't know. I'm not an attorney and I can't answer those questions, but we should look at them, okay? Because – and yes, the city does have the ability to go and force people to pay to upgrade property. unfortunate, but that's the reality of what it is. It's part of a whole planning process. to do that. But it gets a little murky here, like who's doing what and what the causes are. But I think we owe it to everybody just to investigate that, that doesn't slow this. process down, it just says let's investigate that while this is going on. Okay, it's not to single anybody out, it's just trying to apply this evenly throughout the city. Because there's gonna be examples like this when we get in the Marin ship and other things where the murkiness of who owns what and who's maintaining what and what's public right away, what's not, where's the property line, And then it has to come back to be equitable for everybody. Um, But if the city's causing this, then that's a different scenario. |
| 02:24:02.41 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you, Mr. Mayor. So I just have to get back to Ordinance 1128 because I feel that if we don't have a legal written opinion on that from the get-go, which is something we could do, with respect to the reduction in parking and the impact. You know, if we get to the end of this process and it turns out that, you know, there is serious concern out there, we could hit a brick wall. And I'd rather address that issue now and get it in writing as opposed to a verbal opinion. Get it in writing from our legal counsel. Regarding 11-28. Thank you. |
| 02:24:39.99 | Ray Withy | . |
| 02:24:40.02 | Thomas Theodores | and |
| 02:24:40.40 | Ray Withy | Okay. |
| 02:24:40.77 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 02:24:40.80 | Ray Withy | Yes, you can. |
| 02:24:40.94 | Thomas Theodores | Yes. Thank you. Thank you. |
| 02:24:41.88 | Ray Withy | I don't know if it was in this staff report or the next item. There is your somebody's, I think it was you, there's some |
| 02:24:48.67 | Thomas Theodores | It's a reference to 1128 in the staff report, but it's not a legal analysis. |
| 02:24:52.29 | Ray Withy | But it's not a legal analysis. |
| 02:25:00.59 | Mary Wagner | I think, do you want me to wait, Jonathan? |
| 02:25:03.67 | Jonathon Goldman | Not necessarily one. |
| 02:25:04.97 | Ray Withy | Your time's up, Mary. |
| 02:25:09.30 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 02:25:09.32 | Thomas Theodores | I can clarify. You've been waiting to use that on me. The staff report basically says that council has the discretion to interpret 1128 or words to that effect. That's what the staff report sort of says and I'm not verbatim. |
| 02:25:10.18 | Mary Wagner | to use that |
| 02:25:10.97 | Valerie Pitts | and be realistic. |
| 02:25:11.87 | Ray Withy | The step? |
| 02:25:13.22 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:25:24.22 | Mary Wagner | and I'm not, Jump in or do you want to take? Let me jump in real quick. So I think the provision of 1128 that Councilmember Pfeiffer is referring to is a provision that indicates that the amount of public land provided in the capital D downtown for public parking won't be increased in any amount or decreased by greater than 5% from the existing level. If I'm. So I'm seeing you nod at that. Thank you. |
| 02:25:52.25 | Jonathon Goldman | All right. |
| 02:25:52.27 | Mary Wagner | So I think, go ahead. |
| 02:25:54.16 | Jonathon Goldman | I'm sorry, which is actually quoted in the staff report on page two, item 60. Okay. Yes. Page two, and then for your reference, I've appended a complete copy of the ordinance 1128. |
| 02:25:59.74 | Unknown | Okay. Yes. |
| 02:26:00.74 | Mary Wagner | . |
| 02:26:07.84 | Jonathon Goldman | Yes, I saw that. |
| 02:26:09.43 | Ray Withy | Okay, just to wrap this up, John, |
| 02:26:11.27 | Ray Withy | I think... Keep it. John. |
| 02:26:16.72 | Ray Withy | All your time is up. |
| 02:26:16.75 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 02:26:16.85 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 02:26:16.87 | Mary Wagner | Yeah. |
| 02:26:17.11 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 02:26:17.23 | Mary Wagner | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 02:26:17.38 | Ray Withy | Bye. |
| 02:26:17.41 | Mary Wagner | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 02:26:17.46 | Ray Withy | MAKING A LITTLE BIT OF |
| 02:26:17.51 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 02:26:17.53 | Ray Withy | THE FAMILY. |
| 02:26:17.61 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 02:26:17.76 | Mary Wagner | What I hear you asking for, and if the Council directs this, this is where I think |
| 02:26:18.00 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 02:26:22.62 | Mary Wagner | we would go with this. I would start from the perspective, okay, so this means when this was adopted, that's the current amount of parking that they're talking about. So that was 1997. So you'd have to go and figure out how much parking in all of the, quote, Capital D, downtown. was devoted to public parking, and then that can be increased or decreased by 5%. So it's not just a legal opinion, it's somebody going out there and counting parking an area devoted to parking, if I may finish. And then the opinion that I think you're asking for is an interpretation of that. we can offer you and interpretation, and I concur that ultimately, It is up to the City Council to interpret the ordinances. part of the city council's role. We could provide you with recommendations you know, all that kind of thing. But I concur with the staff report that that is the, the, The interpretation of your ordinances is up to the Council. |
| 02:27:20.96 | Thomas Theodores | And I would respond to that, Mr. Mayor. So I know that there are historical documents with respect to 1128 that documented parking at that time. So that would be relatively easy to locate. The starting place, great. Yeah. In terms of, though, my perspective on this, to me, it's important on the outset whenever we do anything downtown, especially when we're talking about reducing, you know, parking spaces. I hear, you know, this is our transit hub. It's the tourists, you know, that we're accommodating, you know, here. The bikes and the 15 coach buses and five shuttle buses that I heard about. So I think to me it's important to look at 1128 and get a legal analysis from our city attorney weighing in to provide guidance to counsel. That's my personal opinion. |
| 02:27:34.87 | Mary Wagner | the start. |
| 02:27:35.25 | Valerie Pitts | you |
| 02:27:35.42 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 02:27:35.46 | Valerie Pitts | Thank you. |
| 02:27:35.66 | Mary Wagner | Yeah. |
| 02:27:36.03 | Unknown | Yes. |
| 02:28:05.98 | Mary Wagner | I know. |
| 02:28:06.03 | Unknown | I think to me. |
| 02:28:07.03 | Unknown | We... |
| 02:28:18.07 | Ray Withy | Okay. Jonathan, I have a quick question for you. Could you? Could you, how many compact spaces could you change in life to? Is it possible? Right now we don't have any. |
| 02:28:32.80 | Jonathon Goldman | Change in lot too. |
| 02:28:33.96 | Ray Withy | In other words, if you made them some spaces to offset what you are doing cutting into that, compact spaces, and they have them in other cities. |
| 02:28:40.68 | Jonathon Goldman | Come on. Thank you. and they I don't know, Mr. Mayor, but since you've given me the opportunity, if I had the opportunity to redesign lot two now, even with this entry and exit, I would probably reduce the number of spaces that are there now. Okay. Because for the same kinds of safety issues that you raised with respect to the diagonal parking. Okay. So we could probably accommodate more spaces if we turned them all into compact. We could do, for example, what happened in lot one or lot three where we created small car spaces that only one vehicle can cover two spaces in. I wouldn't recommend doing that. |
| 02:28:55.16 | Mary Wagner | All right. |
| 02:28:59.82 | Unknown | Okay. |
| 02:29:05.49 | Ray Withy | So, |
| 02:29:05.62 | Unknown | Okay. |
| 02:29:10.14 | Unknown | Okay. |
| 02:29:20.76 | Ray Withy | Amen. |
| 02:29:20.83 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:29:20.93 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 02:29:21.36 | Ray Withy | No. |
| 02:29:21.65 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. |
| 02:29:21.67 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 02:29:21.80 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. |
| 02:29:23.07 | Ray Withy | I don't like it either, but if we're playing with... It's a ding machine. |
| 02:29:26.36 | Ray Withy | It's a ding machine. You're creating a ding machine. |
| 02:29:28.13 | Ray Withy | Yeah, well. Open up a body shop. Let's move on. All right. So, wow. Thank you, Jonathan. |
| 02:29:39.07 | Jonathon Goldman | Mr. Mayor, just as a point of procedure, staff's recommendation is that Council adopt a motion approving the Humboldt Avenue Pedestrian Bicycle Improvement Project plans. Council has a number of alternatives available to them, but the request is that you take action on these plans this evening or direct us to do something else or continue the matter. |
| 02:30:04.43 | Ray Withy | Okay. |
| 02:30:04.83 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 02:30:06.89 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. |
| 02:30:07.28 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 02:30:07.57 | Ray Withy | So just to clarify for staff, if I could, you want us to make a motion to adopt Thank you. Thank you. improvement project plans. Which, right, which is this the plan that you want us to adopt more or less? Just this? The recommendation. |
| 02:30:22.20 | Jonathon Goldman | That's the recommendation, yes. Widen the sidewalks on Humboldt. |
| 02:30:31.57 | Ray Withy | Okay, thanks, John. Well, so my question here is, I think we could probably get consensus that we need to, we want to do projects of this nature, whether this is the alignment or the, I mean, or where it pushes out or how much it pushes out in the street, I don't think that's really, you know, I can't opine to 15 feet versus 14 feet. So, but is this more of a conceptual idea you want us to embrace in terms of the widening of the sidewalks on both sides as well as the use of multi-use on the west side? Is that – do you want some general guidance to that effect versus saying this is the exact plan we want you to progress through forward with this schema. Again... What could you live with? |
| 02:31:34.90 | Jonathon Goldman | anything. Mercy. Your wife is very lucky. The dilemma, I'm sorry, Council Member Theodores, the dilemma is that we don't have detailed plans because we don't have Council's approval to go forward with the project to widen the sidewalks. And we don't have the plan to do that. |
| 02:31:36.15 | Ray Withy | I'll do it. Mercy. |
| 02:31:40.03 | Unknown | It's very lucky then. |
| 02:31:42.03 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:31:42.78 | Unknown | the, |
| 02:31:43.22 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:31:43.23 | Unknown | but |
| 02:31:43.87 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 02:31:54.25 | Ray Withy | Go ahead. |
| 02:32:00.14 | Jonathon Goldman | have Planning Commission approval or the determination that the Planning Commission doesn't even want to regulate this because it's just widening the sidewalks. |
| 02:32:09.71 | Unknown | you |
| 02:32:09.96 | Jonathon Goldman | But I need enough of a either a majority or ideally a consensus that council wants staff to address these issues, confirm that we have the legal right and the obligation, or if we don't have the legal right and the obligation, enlist the other parties that might have the rights and the obligations, to construct a project that widens the sidewalks on both sides of Humboldt. To the extent that bicycle facility or facilities can be integrated into that project and the appropriate approvals from planning and other agencies can be achieved, that gives us the opportunity to bring $83,000 to the table to deliver this project. If in the community's judgment that's not desirable, that $83,000 is off the table, but it doesn't mean that we lose the benefit of the improvements, the conceptual improvements here. Thank you. |
| 02:33:11.20 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 02:33:11.86 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. |
| 02:33:11.89 | Ray Withy | Listen, if you look at the bottom on the west side and you see the line where the pedestrian bike pedestrian and bike path would be right there. Then now go to the outside line, the furthest line, right there. The automobiles will be parked parallel. So by parking parallel, if you look there, they're not really sticking out any further than they would be there. And I think there's only, what are we looking on the west side, two feet? Actually, If you go up to the burren there, of the parking lot and then you go to the street. where the sidewalk to the line where the street is at Yeah, now keep moving right to the street right there. That distance between that sidewalk and there is what? Two feet? Three feet? |
| 02:34:01.62 | Jonathon Goldman | No, this distance from the existing face of curve to the new face of curve. |
| 02:34:06.52 | Ray Withy | No, from the outside curb or the sidewalk. The existing. Yeah, to the street. To the new. Yes. That's seven feet, as I recall. so seven feet All right, so you're so, but I still have, we still have room to put two lines of buses. You put eight buses there. And like Jonathan mentioned, you have plenty of room for fire engines and buses and everything else to still be able to go around that area. |
| 02:34:36.79 | Ray Withy | Yeah, just to... clarifying not to draw this out any further. And I don't know if you wanted to go ahead with your comment. Go ahead. |
| 02:34:39.73 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 02:34:40.08 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 02:34:40.13 | Unknown | So, |
| 02:34:41.97 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 02:34:41.99 | Thomas Theodores | No, I... Thank you. |
| 02:34:43.34 | Ray Withy | Well, |
| 02:34:45.68 | Thomas Theodores | I'm just saying procedurally. And I think my dilemma and maybe the others is that we're being asked to approve the plan. And maybe we could say that we authorized uh, public works and the city to go forward with public input and go to the Planning Commission on potentially widening the sidewalks and drawing up a traffic plan for Humboldt and get this process moving. It's a little difficult because we have this plan and it seems – I understand what we're trying to do just to get the process moving, but instead of authorizing the plan with a lot of caveats that we just authorize you going forward with exploration of these things and a plan, and that you come back to us. And actually, it adds one more thing. I think when we go through the Planning Commission. I'd like to make sure, rather than sometimes I think to get back to us would require an appeal, I'd like to deserve some that we get to look at this plan at the very end of it because we're only looking, it's an important part of the traffic flow in the area. |
| 02:35:46.25 | Adam Politzer | If I may, what I'm hearing is you guys would be comfortable with us going forward with getting some preliminary design. information back and then clarifying all the other things that have been discussed tonight. The problem is I would not recommend that you send it to the Planning Commission and through that process, And then back to the council because what happens if the council doesn't agree with the work that the Planning Commission did to come to a consensus to approve whatever the end result would be. Then you'd be going back to the Planning Commission and saying, actually, we want you to change this. So I'd much rather you give direction to staff to come back to the property owner with, just as if you were your own house, telling them to come back, give me some designs that you want to recommend Moving forward. And then once you folks take a look at that, have the other questions answered, then you could direct staff to take it to the Planning Commission. But if you direct it to the Planning Commission, and you gotta allow them to do their job. which is either take it through and reject it and return it back to the owner just as if you You're doing your own house. And then you have to address why they're rejecting it. or if they accept it or modify it with without the need to bring it back to the council. then you're in the ability to have it approved and then built. So I would direct staff. to come back with some conceptual design with a recommendation to move forward to the Planning Commission Council has had an opportunity to review the conceptual design and have the other questions answered that were raised earlier this evening. Cool. You have a motion. |
| 02:37:35.16 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 02:37:38.87 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:37:38.89 | Ray Withy | We could probably follow it totally what you said, but let me see if I can. Sure, I'll move. |
| 02:37:42.30 | Thomas Theodores | Sure, I'll move. I'll move to direct City Council to create an analysis of Ordinance 1128 before moving forward with this multi-use bicycle sidewalk widening plan, whatever it is. |
| 02:38:01.87 | Ray Withy | Okay. All right. Do we have a second? |
| 02:38:09.67 | Mary Wagner | just a clarification, sorry, as part of bringing back the conceptual plan or just a whole separate analysis of a vacuum? |
| 02:38:15.98 | Thomas Theodores | An analysis based on what is being proposed before we were to vote on it. I've made it clear when we first started talking about this two weeks ago that I wanted to see a documented legal analysis of Ordinance 1128. |
| 02:38:27.88 | Mary Wagner | Especially. |
| 02:38:33.95 | Mary Wagner | Correct, and I need the direction from the full council, which I'm hearing support for. No problem with that. What I'm asking you guys is do you want that independent of bringing back a conceptual plan for you to apply the facts of the plan to the analysis, because doing the analysis in a vacuum doesn't do you any good. To clarify, I applied to this plan. |
| 02:38:53.76 | Thomas Theodores | So I- |
| 02:38:55.89 | Mary Wagner | So, okay, does that make sense to you? |
| 02:38:58.03 | Ray Withy | Thank you. All right, do I have a second? |
| 02:39:00.30 | Mary Wagner | That's an exercise. |
| 02:39:01.09 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 02:39:01.14 | Mary Wagner | Okay. |
| 02:39:01.53 | Ray Withy | Thank you. There is no second. Okay. All right. I'll adopt the motion approving Humboldt Avenue pedestrian and bicycle improvement project plans. Thank you. Do I have a second? |
| 02:39:14.37 | Ray Withy | Let me try and see if you want to amend it. There was no second for the other one? |
| 02:39:26.87 | Mary Wagner | Rosenberg's doesn't demand that you have a second. The chair can call for it, and if there isn't one, that's still a motion on the table. |
| 02:39:35.18 | Ray Withy | Okay, so then what do we do? Take a vote. Do we have to vote on the first motion? |
| 02:39:36.85 | Mary Wagner | Take a vote. Thank you. |
| 02:39:39.11 | Unknown | THE FAMILY. |
| 02:39:39.17 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. You can have three motions on the floor at any one time. The original motion and then either a motion to replace that motion or a motion to amend that motion. the song and dance here. And I apologize if I added confusion to the question. I just wanted to suggest to the City Council that it might The analysis might make more of 1128, if you could apply it to the plan and Councilmember Fyfer clarified that it applies to what's in front of you right now. |
| 02:40:04.32 | Ray Withy | And I clarified that. Right now. Thank you. Okay, so let's vote on the first motion. Okay. All right. All in favor? |
| 02:40:10.60 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. We're here. Okay. |
| 02:40:12.84 | Thomas Theodores | Bye. |
| 02:40:16.17 | Thomas Theodores | I. |
| 02:40:17.03 | Ray Withy | Opposed? No. No. |
| 02:40:19.52 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 02:40:19.57 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 02:40:20.03 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 02:40:20.17 | Ray Withy | you |
| 02:40:20.42 | Ray Withy | okay okay so uh i'll make a motion to try and move this forward hopefully together so i'd like to adopt a motion approving the conceptual humboldt avenue pedestrian and bicycle improvement project plans with the uses outlined in the staff report But that... The city attorney opined to the application of 1128 to these plans. and that... um, The City Attorney also, in conjunction with the Public Works Director, analyzed the sidewalk – I forget the name of that – the sidewalk ordinance and its application here, as well as any additional responsibility created by the City because of the uses that the City has designated here. that may or may not affect the conceptual plans, but it may or may not affect the dollar amounts underneath that as well. and that it come back to the council before it goes to the planning commission. I sort of thought that's what you were getting at before, so that we can say, okay, we know what's going to the planning commission before it goes. Does that sort of ring so much? |
| 02:41:37.77 | Ray Withy | That's livable. Okay. Well... |
| 02:41:40.07 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 02:41:40.08 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 02:41:42.31 | Ray Withy | I'll second. Okay, all in favor? Aye. Opposed? |
| 02:41:44.76 | Thomas Theodores | Right. And I am voting no on this because, again, I feel I'm concerned that we are wasting staff time proceeding without having the analysis on 11-28 first as I mentioned two weeks prior. |
| 02:41:57.06 | Ray Withy | 28 first. Okay, no is what you voted. Okay, thank you, Jonathan. |
| 02:42:06.53 | Ray Withy | There's more. |
| 02:42:08.27 | Ray Withy | Oh, yeah. Now we'll get to the bulk of things. All right, the Humboldt. I think we've been on Humboldt. Humboldt bulkhead status update. TT, you're on. |
| 02:42:08.45 | Ray Withy | Oh yeah, now we're getting, |
| 02:42:17.56 | Unknown | So. |
| 02:42:29.83 | Unknown | Sorry about that. |
| 02:42:31.79 | Ray Withy | Good night. |
| 02:42:34.29 | Unknown | That's one way to call it. |
| 02:42:38.39 | Unknown | you |
| 02:42:38.57 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:42:38.61 | Todd | All right, hopefully this is a little more straightforward. |
| 02:42:38.66 | Unknown | Right. |
| 02:42:44.89 | Todd | This is a SAS report on the Humboldt bulkhead. There is, in the capital improvement project, $40,000 set aside for the rehabilitation of this timber seawall that's literally on the edge of Humboldt. And then there's water. This used to be the Edgewater Yacht Marina. Marina. They ceased operations and it's been inoperable since. Oops, going the wrong way. OK, here's a picture of low tide, the timber bulkhead in 2009. Things have changed quite a bit. And most important to us is Yeah, sorry. I took a picture at noon, but it was high tide. And it was, I took another picture at 5. It was low tide, but too dark. So, you know, this is a lot more deteriorated. There is this little band of K-rails that cordons off about 20 feet from from this chain link rail to the K rail because this has rotted so much it's eroding. And apparently there's at one point a Mercedes parked here one day and it sunk. It had to get towed out. So this system is failing. Here's another view of the cordoned off area. Here is literally looking along the backside. This is all sunk and collapsing in. There's a street light that fell over and is just sitting in a hole. So and. |
| 02:44:38.59 | Ray Withy | have to air all our dirty laundry, Todd. |
| 02:44:40.75 | Todd | Here's the hall and here's the street light. So the need is there. We don't know when the timber bulkhead was formed. It's important that |
| 02:44:54.33 | Ray Withy | Trolls living. |
| 02:44:55.89 | Todd | Look. |
| 02:44:57.27 | Ray Withy | behind the bulkhead in the corroded area. plotting to destroy the rest of it. |
| 02:45:03.93 | Todd | Yes. |
| 02:45:07.61 | Todd | So we've identified a stabilization strategy. As you know, the South Slil Yacht Harbor replaced its bulkhead last year and the year before, and they produced some extra materials, and rather than just disposing of them, we salvaged them, and they're – actually, I don't know if I can do that. you words. |
| 02:45:37.40 | Todd | Up here, this is the city property next to Dunphy Park. This is the surplus sheet piles that we salvaged from the Sausage Yacht Harbor. |
| 02:45:48.96 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:45:49.02 | Unknown | time don't tell people where your story this thing is |
| 02:45:50.21 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:45:50.31 | Ray Withy | I'm sorry, your story. |
| 02:45:51.62 | Unknown | Thanks. |
| 02:45:52.21 | Todd | Anyways, we want to use them to rebuild this thing. But to do that, we need permits. |
| 02:46:06.22 | Todd | We've commissioned Wilsie Hamm to... to prepare this plan We think it's ready now to submit as at least a first draft to the BCBC and the Army Corps. the The big question of this was whether we put these timber piles in the back side of these concrete piles on the back side of the timber pile or in the front. This plan proposes to put it on the back, and as we put them in, we'll remove and safely dispose of this waste product. Amen. And we're basically asking, you know, the engineers who've started looking at this for us don't believe that $40,000 is enough to do the project. So and the plan that's been developed is your basic bare bones. It really doesn't consider some of the broader things that BCDC or the Army Corps, the Regional Water Quality Control Board do. So we may need to revise this plan and there'll be some additional costs. So at the moment we don't have a cost for how much this will be. The fact that we've got the materials in place should keep it down a little bit from what it could be. But the thought was we would, with your permission and blessing, we would submit these plans to the federal and state and regional agencies for permits. they would opine on conditions of approval. And once we get those, we would, in the next budget cycle, come up with a revised update. So with that, we're asking you to adopt a motion of, at least for now, approving this plan and authorizing us to, not for construction, but for submittal to these other agencies for permitting purposes. Alternatively, you can give us some comments on the plan. |
| 02:48:01.68 | Unknown | that. |
| 02:48:01.92 | Mary Wagner | that. |
| 02:48:09.48 | Ray Withy | All right, any questions? Okay. Thank you. Go ahead. |
| 02:48:15.82 | Thomas Theodores | You said that the $40,000 was not enough, but what was the estimate of what it would be? |
| 02:48:16.36 | Todd | That's it. |
| 02:48:22.45 | Todd | We don't have an estimate at this point. |
| 02:48:22.77 | Thomas Theodores | had a |
| 02:48:24.58 | Todd | Thank you. We don't typically... |
| 02:48:32.54 | Ray Withy | back to it. From his experience, he could say Yeah. |
| 02:48:34.10 | Todd | Thank you. |
| 02:48:34.18 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:48:34.30 | Todd | is. Yeah. We may or may not need a geotechnical report to do the structural design. Right now we're trying to reuse these materials for this application. It might have to be verified that the materials are adequate. And then we don't know what these other conditions might be. |
| 02:48:38.36 | Ray Withy | Amen. |
| 02:48:59.65 | Todd | Um, We think that we'll have enough feedback from the permitting agencies that we can develop a more accurate cost permit or cost estimate, but at this moment we don't have that. |
| 02:49:16.06 | Ray Withy | All right, any questions? Any questions at this time here from the public? Okay, bring it back up here for a moment. Thank you. Any comment? All right, then do I have a motion? |
| 02:49:28.10 | Mary Wagner | I have a nice |
| 02:49:29.12 | Ray Withy | Todd and Jonathan credit for saving those materials, trying to reuse them. Hopefully we can. And if not, can we lay them flat as street beds? |
| 02:49:31.59 | Ray Withy | those materials. |
| 02:49:38.31 | Unknown | . |
| 02:49:44.97 | Unknown | I'm not kidding. |
| 02:49:47.52 | Todd | Reduce, reuse, recycle. |
| 02:49:47.96 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:49:49.41 | Ray Withy | All right, can I have a motion, please? |
| 02:49:51.40 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 02:49:53.02 | Todd | Thank you. |
| 02:49:53.05 | Unknown | to you. |
| 02:49:53.71 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 02:49:53.73 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 02:49:53.75 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 02:49:53.88 | Ray Withy | you |
| 02:49:54.03 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. I move that we authorize staff to submit Humboldt bulkhead replacement project to local, regional, state, and federal agencies for permitting. |
| 02:50:06.45 | Unknown | I second. |
| 02:50:07.33 | Thomas Theodores | Okay, all in favor. |
| 02:50:08.31 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 02:50:08.36 | Thomas Theodores | All right. |
| 02:50:08.87 | Ray Withy | Aye. Opposed? Good night, Todd. What happened there, Jonathan? Okay, we moved one item up, and that was... Thank you. Yeah, I have it here somewhere. So, Mr. Mayor, would you |
| 02:50:26.08 | Thomas Theodores | So, Mr. Mayor, would you like me to do a real brief summary on this one, just my question? you |
| 02:50:31.34 | Unknown | Go ahead. |
| 02:50:32.07 | Thomas Theodores | So this refers to the City Council workshop, the revised session summary. And the issue I raised was on page two of four under Rosenberg's Rules of Order. Point number one. of three minutes and one minute take place. The number of additional rounds needed to surface new information are at the chair mayor's discretion and I would add subject to a two-thirds vote or Rosenberg's Rules of Order, allow the chair to say something like, I'm not hearing any new information at this point in the debate. Oh, I can move to a two-thirds vote. That's the point that I wanted to drive home, is that Rosenberg's Rules is very clear. I've, you know, reviewed all the motion to debate sections, and they, it requires a two-thirds vote. And on the second page, it says, separate from the above, any member can call for a vote. It takes a two-thirds majority. in this case four out of five to move to a vote. But, um, It wasn't apparent reading point one that the mayor's discretion was open to a vote and required a two-thirds vote to carry. So that was the clarification I wanted to add |
| 02:51:57.07 | Mary Wagner | Let me tell you the provisions that I read and I was trying to make the point but because it was on consent it was taking too much time. So if you can bear with me, let me walk through. the provisions that I think We talked about at the team BUILDING. and that apply to Councilmember Pfeiffer's because I don't believe that Rosenberg's rules read that way. And so the point above the place where there's ability to cut off debate, There's a whole paragraph above that. And the paragraph that I read to you before, bear with me and let me read to you again, It says that... The debate, okay, the basic rule of motions is that they are subject to discussion and debate. Accordingly, basic motions, motions to amend, and substitute motions are all eligible each in their turn for full discussion before and by the body. The debate can continue as long as members of the body wish to discuss an item Subject to the decision of the chair that it is time to move on and take action. That's one, can I get it all out there and then we can have questions or follow up discussion because I think you need the whole PICTURE. to put the pieces together. The bottom line is you can also change these if you want to, but here's what I think Rosenberg the point that we talked a lot about. at the team building about the chair's ability to move discussion along, working in your rules about the three-minute, one-minute So we're trying to make those two things work together. The second provision then that I look at in Rosenberg's, are there exceptions to the general rule of free and open debate on motions, the exceptions all reply when there is a desire of the body to move on, The following motions are not debatable. Then you get to the a motion to limit debate. So any member of the body can say something like, I move the question or I call for the question, which is saying, I want to cut off debate. And that's when the chair should stop the discussion. to take action on that motion. and ask if there's a second, and then that's the motion that requires a two-thirds vote. I think it's also then important to go to the point that I was trying to make that if you just, so if the chair says, hey, you've had your threes, we've had our ones, there's nothing new coming up, We need to move on. If a council member disagrees with that, I believe that Rosenberg's indicates that the proper motion to make would be a point of order. or an interruption would be a point of order. And the example that it gives here, I think, is on point. because it says order. The proper interruption would be point of order. Again, the chair would ask the interrupter to state your point. Appropriate points of order relate to anything that would not be considered appropriate conduct of the meeting. For example, if the chair moved on to a vote on a motion, that permits debate without allowing that discussion or debate. So again, referring back to the ability of the chair to control the debate and the timing. If the council member who made that motion still disagrees that the chair didn't take the appropriate action. You can appeal the Chair's ruling And if the motion is seconded and after debate, it passes by a simple majority vote, then the ruling of the chair is deemed reversed. I'll also tell you I don't think you're going to get to the point where we're going to be having this discussion. because I think that the whole point of the council meeting is to allow free and open debate both from the public, input from the public, and input from the Council. But I wanted to clarify for you the reading of Rosenberg's that we did discuss at the the team building. And I believe Councilmember Pfeiffer's proposed interpretation is a change to that. So if the Council wanted to change the way Rosenberg's is applied, then I think that you could add that language. |
| 02:55:48.85 | Thomas Theodores | So Mary, if I could respond. So I read that as well, that what you read regarding the chair. And my interpretation of this is that the, it is subject to a two-thirds vote. I also noted this from Rosenberg's, motion to limit debate. Whether a member says I move the previous question, I move the question, I call for question, or I limit the debate, It all amounts to an attempt to cut off the ability of the minority to discuss an item and it requires a two-thirds vote to pass. And there are a couple of other passages in Rosenberg's Rules of Order that refer to, again, limiting debate, and all of them refer to the two-thirds vote. Thank you. Um, It, And I'm also checking this on his website, and that's what I'm finding. |
| 02:56:52.38 | Ray Withy | comments? |
| 02:56:53.04 | Thomas Theodores | to get to the next. |
| 02:56:53.11 | Ray Withy | you. |
| 02:56:53.36 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 02:56:53.38 | Ray Withy | on. |
| 02:56:53.83 | Thomas Theodores | I think it's a good thing. We're discussing Sherry's notes of the meeting. And my recollection was that we didn't make any change to our procedures. Correct. So she made some interpretation of Rosenberg's rules. Why don't we just strike her comments from that? We have not made any changes to Rosenberg's. We're debating Rosenberg's. And what's really on this agenda is Sherry's notes of what went on. Put in, just put in points of clarification as we discussed Rosenberg's rules. And take out the rest. |
| 02:57:24.80 | Thomas Theodores | Adhere to Rosenberg's rules. That's fine. I'm fine with that. Okay. Yeah. |
| 02:57:28.65 | Adam Politzer | I just want to comment on that. part of the team building discussion was is when we get bogged down in back and forth and not actually bringing any new information, trying to change one person's opinion, which is the person's not going to change their opinion, which is what they're entitled to express. I think what these notes are saying is that if the chair hears no new information, It's a recommendation to move on and the chair has the responsibility. as the mayor. keep the meetings moving forward so that we don't get in a situation where almost like we were earlier tonight. on how to move the discussion forward. Chair needs to say, we're not hearing any new information. Is there a consensus to move on? If there is, then they move on. IF THE MEMBER OF THE CITY ATTORNEY WAS SHARING, NO, THERE'S NEW INFORMATION, POINT OF ORDER, Then the discussion continues unless someone moves. to end the discussion. So I think in the spirit of Sherry's notes here, is to help us manage our meetings so that we can keep these meetings MOVING TIMELY. and to clarify that that her interpretation and I thought was the consensus of the of the council at the meeting was that we, agreed that the chair of the meeting, which is the mayor, if they're not hearing any new items, is to make that statement, and ask that there's consensus to move to move on. And if there isn't consensus, well then the discussion will continue. or if the minority Uh, voice thinks that there's still more new information to be added, well then they should be given the ability to bring that new information forward. |
| 02:59:14.35 | Thomas Theodores | So I'd like to comment and respond to that. So consensus is not a two-thirds majority vote per Rosenberg's Rules of Order. I would add that the call of no new information is often times subjective. I remember in 2001 walking up to the microphone and presenting to the council the lack of public input in building the initial, original public safety building that was later defeated. And at the time, I was, the council said, well, we've heard no new information. My experience with the No New Information play is that it tends to be politicized. The spirit of Rosenberg's Rules of Order is very democratic. And it's designed to ensure debate. And the other thing that Rosenberg's rule says is, and when he does specifically specify the chair cutting off discussion, as he said, debate on policy is healthy. Debate on personalities is not. The chair has the right to cut off discussion that is too personal, too loud, or too crude. So I think we need, I defer to Councilmember Theodora's recommendation that we just refer to Rosenberg's Rules of Order for facilitation and decorum on this council. And I think that that's what the other city councils do and I think that makes the most sense. Grrrr! |
| 03:00:55.62 | Thomas Theodores | So I move to replace on page two of four points of clarification to just Rosenberg's Rules of Order. Council will follow Rosenberg's Rules of Order. |
| 03:01:14.36 | Ray Withy | There's a motion on the floor. |
| 03:01:15.73 | Thomas Theodores | I'll second it. Thank you. |
| 03:01:18.72 | Ray Withy | Thank you. Debbie? That's it. |
| 03:01:26.40 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 03:01:26.41 | Adam Politzer | Thank you. |
| 03:01:26.48 | Ray Withy | for the future. |
| 03:01:26.97 | Adam Politzer | Thank you. |
| 03:01:27.63 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:01:27.66 | Adam Politzer | Amen. |
| 03:01:27.86 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:01:27.97 | Adam Politzer | Thank you. |
| 03:01:28.05 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:01:28.07 | Adam Politzer | you |
| 03:01:28.34 | Ray Withy | Can you rephrase your... |
| 03:01:28.39 | Unknown | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 03:01:29.50 | Adam Politzer | There's discussion here. I think what Councilmember Pfeiffer is suggesting, staff doesn't have any problem with the recommendation. But that is her recommendation from my understanding is how we should govern at the council, how we should run our meetings and not to use this recommendation, which is in the summary. What staff is talking about here is that we don't strike it from the summary. This is the discussion that happened on February the 2nd. We're now taking action based on Councilmember Pfeiffer's recommendation to accept the report because the report is what occurred, but not to accept that this is how our pro... we're not going to adopt these as our protocols or we're going to adopt these as our protocols striking That number one. |
| 03:02:21.49 | Thomas Theodores | Okay, let me rephrase that. Thank you, Adam. So I'd like to amend my motion or restate the motion to accept the report from February 2nd striking the section on Rosenberg's Rules of Order points of clarification and amending the report to include and And amending, can't I, I understand that the amendment is not a reflection of the minutes from February 2nd, but I want to get in there that we'd like to replace that with Rosenberg's Rules of Order. |
| 03:03:02.64 | Mary Wagner | Can I just ask a question or make a suggestion? Because I hear what you're saying, but I think what we're saying over on this side takes that into account. So anyways, just real quick, if I can. Because I think it's important that you all feel comfortable |
| 03:03:11.92 | Unknown | Okay. |
| 03:03:12.96 | Unknown | By the way, just real quick, if I can. Thank you. |
| 03:03:17.47 | Mary Wagner | with how we're moving forward. And you know, a literal interpretation and debate on that isn't getting you to where you need to be in operating. |
| 03:03:24.96 | Thomas Theodores | I can make two motions. |
| 03:03:27.29 | Mary Wagner | Okay, can I just real quick? It's because I think we're all saying the same thing. Okay. So I think what staff is saying, the city clerk, myself and the city manager, |
| 03:03:30.53 | Thomas Theodores | Same thing. |
| 03:03:36.01 | Mary Wagner | This is the summary of what was discussed, but we're hearing you loud and clear that your minutes tonight are going to say This may be the summary of what was discussed We're not altering our operating procedures that are in place and we're not amending Rosenberg's rules of order to say anything that they don't already say. So while this may have been your discussion point, You're telling us tonight we're going to apply Rosenberg's rules to operate this council meeting without any modification to Rosenberg's rules. So the summary minutes, stand as presented by the Um, facilitators, but Council's giving clear direction that will be reflected in your minutes tonight that Rosenberg's is not being changed, period. and we understand Council Member Pfeiffer's input that she doesn't believe Rosenberg allows, gives the chair any authority to do. anything. different. |
| 03:04:26.77 | Thomas Theodores | Well, I want to ensure that by accepting this report from February 2nd, we are not in somehow, I can articulate that we are not accepting Rosenberg's Rules of Points of Clarification on page 2. So how would I make that motion, Mary? |
| 03:04:48.80 | Mary Wagner | Just what you just said. Accept the report but indicate that the points of clarification that were discussed on Rosenberg's aren't necessarily the Council's operating procedure. |
| 03:04:50.01 | Unknown | Okay. |
| 03:04:57.23 | Mary Wagner | What I want to make sure you understand is we have a difference of opinion. And that can be further discussed, the council can alter that, you know, and we're both pulling out bits and pieces of Rosenberg. |
| 03:05:01.50 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:05:01.55 | Thomas Theodores | That's... Thank you. Yeah. Okay. Okay, thank you Mary. I think I'll make that motion and then I'll follow up with the motion for Rosenberg's just for clarity. So I move to accept the minutes from the meeting on February 2nd and strike the section, okay, |
| 03:05:08.73 | Mary Wagner | I, |
| 03:05:30.36 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 03:05:30.39 | Mary Wagner | help me out? |
| 03:05:31.20 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 03:05:32.20 | Unknown | I don't even know where they're going. |
| 03:05:32.84 | Mary Wagner | I don't know. I can't. I mean, I'm telling you what our interpretation is of what we're asking you to do in trying to incorporate your direction. |
| 03:05:38.85 | Thomas Theodores | Tell me what, verbatim, what do I say? |
| 03:05:41.31 | Mary Wagner | Well, but I... you |
| 03:05:41.97 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 03:05:42.04 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 03:05:42.07 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 03:05:42.09 | Mary Wagner | Bye. |
| 03:05:42.12 | Thomas Theodores | you |
| 03:05:42.29 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 03:05:42.34 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 03:05:43.18 | Adam Politzer | I'm suggesting that you accept The summary report from the February 2nd meeting. And move. for the Council protocols to remain. using Rosenberg rules of order as we've been using in the past. |
| 03:05:59.38 | Thomas Theodores | Okay. So I move that the council accept February 2nd's revised session summary with at the same time accepting council protocols per following Rosenberg's rules of order. |
| 03:06:20.12 | Thomas Theodores | Did I ask a clarifying question? I know I probably shouldn't want to. But I mean, my only problem here is that we don't follow Rosenberg's rules anyway, right? I do. They don't have to, no you don't. |
| 03:06:23.84 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 03:06:24.11 | Ray Withy | But I mean, my. |
| 03:06:34.32 | Mary Wagner | I do. No, you don't. You follow both your operating protocols and Rosenberg's rules. So every time somebody talks about Rosenberg's as the three one minute, that's not in Rosenberg's, it's in your operating protocols. Exactly. You have to look at them together. |
| 03:06:38.60 | Thomas Theodores | Right. Right. |
| 03:06:43.95 | Thomas Theodores | Exactly. Exactly. So I wouldn't want us to be throwing away our operating protocols. and just following Rosenbergs, because that's not what we've agreed to. |
| 03:06:57.92 | Thomas Theodores | Well, if I could respond to that, actually, I believe, Mr. Mayor? I believe that Rosenberg's Rules allows us to stipulate, and I could be wrong about this, but I believe it allows us to stipulate the times as three or one or what have you. And so we are adhering to Rosenberg's Rules of Order. |
| 03:07:23.34 | Ray Withy | I just quote one thing here, so because this tends to happen sometimes, and I think this is what you quoted before, right, Linda, where it says, rules should enforce the will of law protecting the rights of the minority. Is that one of the sections you quoted? |
| 03:07:35.22 | Thomas Theodores | That was one of the sections? |
| 03:07:36.30 | Ray Withy | But if you continue in that same thing, it says in the democracy majority rules, the rules must enable the majority to express itself and fashion a result while permitting the minority to also express themselves but not dominate and fully participate in the process. So I think what we're trying to accomplish here is some ability for people to express themselves but not to sort of by de facto create a filibuster by just talking endlessly. and whatever point of view, whoever it may be. My understanding is that we got a consensus was that if there was no new information coming and we were just repeating ourselves, that the interpretation of the mayor as the chair of the meeting Could... say, let's move this forward. There's no new information coming forward. Or anyone's recourse in that scenario could be to, as Mary outlined before, to call the point of order and say, limiting debate and then you take a vote. So I don't know if we're really limiting the applicability of Rosenberg's rules of order here because it does actually say, and it's one of those things where you can pull something out of anything to fashion your opinion. |
| 03:08:50.51 | Unknown | Off track. |
| 03:08:54.63 | Ray Withy | Off track. Is it tone that counsels discussion that becomes personal, hostile, or uncivil? |
| 03:09:03.02 | Thomas Theodores | Councilmember Leon, you said someone could fashion or pull something out of anything to fashion their opinion. Yes, and I did and you did. Yes, and you did and I did. That's what my point was. No, I... Okay. Rosenberg's Rules of Order goes on to talk about the two-thirds vote for the majority and the minority. |
| 03:09:08.43 | Ray Withy | Yes, and I did, and you did. To fashion their opinion. Yes, and you did, and I did. That's what my point was. |
| 03:09:19.79 | Ray Withy | That's what I just said in quoting what Mary was saying before, that the recourse in that scenario is to call for a point of order. Amen. |
| 03:09:27.54 | Thomas Theodores | And a two-thirds vote. |
| 03:09:37.02 | Ray Withy | We have another hour we can talk over this, so I'm all right. I can do that. I'm ready to go to midnight. |
| 03:09:38.84 | Thomas Theodores | with this. |
| 03:09:43.26 | Thomas Theodores | Well, I just made a motion, which was to accept the minutes from February 2nd, but to move that count with respect to page two Rosenberg's Rules of Order points of clarification to clarify that council protocols follow Rosenberg's Rules of Order. |
| 03:10:09.30 | Ray Withy | Okay. Mary? I think what I'm hearing |
| 03:10:14.45 | Mary Wagner | I think what I'm hearing you say, all of you say, is you're not changing Rosenbergs and Section L on meeting management, which is in your |
| 03:10:22.30 | Unknown | No. Thank you. |
| 03:10:24.29 | Mary Wagner | If in your. protocol. So I don't I'm not trying to change anybody's I'm just trying to tell you what staff is hearing you say. So what I'm hearing you say is these are what we talked about at the team building. but the council as a whole, every one of you seems to be saying the same thing. We're going to keep operating under Rosenberg's rules as they are And if you look at Section L, Meeting Management, in your protocols that were adopted by the Council and then reaffirmed at your team building, You're saying the same thing. Keep doing that. I don't think we're suggesting, and Council Member Freyfer, I apologize, |
| 03:10:59.41 | Susan | Thank you. |
| 03:11:03.76 | Mary Wagner | like, and be mishearing you. or anticipating something. But I don't think anybody here is suggesting that Rosenberg's allows the chair of the meeting to say, we're not going to talk about this. I don't think that's being suggested and that's not what's written here. What it is was saying, three minutes, one minute, but you're not going to get in a situation where One council member and one council member are just going back and forth saying, I disagree because you're wrong about blah, blah, blah. No, I disagree because you're wrong. you know what I'm, creating that as somewhat of an absurd situation, that then the mayor would have the ability to say, Hold the phone. Do you guys have anything new to add? If you don't, Let's get on with it. Thank you. |
| 03:11:42.42 | Thomas Theodores | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 03:11:42.60 | Mary Wagner | . |
| 03:11:42.81 | Thomas Theodores | Mr. Mayor, I'd like to respond to that. Thank you. |
| 03:11:45.37 | Unknown | Sure. |
| 03:11:45.68 | Thomas Theodores | So Mary, I think that the issue is number one on page two, which is, uh, The number of additional rounds needed to surface new information are at the Mayor's discretion. allows the chair to say something like, I'm not hearing any new information. That is my point of contention. that the mayor can stop debate with a subjective assessment that he's not hearing new information. And that is not that should be subject, I mean he can have that opinion, but it should be subject to a two-thirds vote. And Rosenberg's Rules of Order is very clear with respect to this two-thirds vote. And it was in fact raised during the during our team building. We didn't discuss it a lot, but I guess my assumption was we were following Rosenberg's rules. So I was a little bit surprised when I saw point one where it said that the mayor could basically make the call that there's not any new information and in debate. Because I have heard that excuse used for political purposes before. My motion stands. I mean, if it doesn't pass, it doesn't pass, but it still stands. |
| 03:13:00.16 | Ray Withy | It is. Still stands. Okay. Go ahead, Tom. Tom, go ahead. |
| 03:13:09.78 | Thomas Theodores | Well, I don't disagree with the spirit of Councilmember Pfeiffer's, but I don't think it's accurately reflects. I would say that we accept the minutes, but with the caveat that the discussion on Rosenberg's Rules of Order simply reflects the discussion by Councilmembers and does not reflect any agreement as to change in procedures. Thank you. |
| 03:13:30.08 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:13:31.19 | Thomas Theodores | And I would amend that. Oh, it needs to be seconded first, right? |
| 03:13:32.07 | Thomas Theodores | to. |
| 03:13:32.26 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 03:13:35.40 | Thomas Theodores | Just a clarification again, haven't we already accepted tonight in the consent calendar or approved the operating protocols? Thank you. |
| 03:13:42.99 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:13:43.01 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 03:13:43.02 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:13:43.21 | Ray Withy | Thank you. It's the only for two because yesterday and not. |
| 03:13:49.88 | Thomas Theodores | It's just the point of clarification that it's just the minutes, the point of clarification that I'm concerned about. That I want to make sure that that is not somehow |
| 03:14:01.01 | Valerie Pitts | Can I ask a question? |
| 03:14:01.64 | Thomas Theodores | Empowering the mayor to end debate. |
| 03:14:03.85 | Ray Withy | May I ask a question? Mary, are these... simply minutes of that meeting, or are they procedures that should be really incorporated into the other document? |
| 03:14:14.72 | Mary Wagner | or |
| 03:14:15.14 | Adam Politzer | Hey. |
| 03:14:15.76 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 03:14:21.25 | Mary Wagner | Yeah. |
| 03:14:28.11 | Mary Wagner | I think there just intended to be a summary of your discussion at the Team Buildings session. you |
| 03:14:33.13 | Ray Withy | So it's really just, you know, they're a little bit more detailed than our normal action minutes. So maybe that, but nonetheless, there's no |
| 03:14:35.02 | Mary Wagner | You know, they're... |
| 03:14:43.20 | Ray Withy | There's no motion or there's no adoption of anything. You adopted the protocols as a separate motion. as part of the consent calendar. So unless the majority wants to reopen that item, there's nothing... You can disagree on what the minutes say, but if this was discussed, And this is an accurate reflection of what was discussed, since there was no vote on this particular thing, and it's not being codified or I don't know what we're kind of going in circles here. |
| 03:15:13.10 | Thomas Theodores | So I second Tom's motion because I think it clarifies exactly what Council Member Leon just said, which is we're accepting the minutes and we're clarifying the section regarding Rosenberg's. |
| 03:15:36.88 | Ray Withy | Is that right? |
| 03:15:38.33 | Ray Withy | Is that clear? |
| 03:15:38.62 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 03:15:38.70 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 03:15:40.31 | Ray Withy | Can I ask you to answer what I asked you for? |
| 03:15:40.32 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 03:15:40.36 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:15:40.42 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. Can you ask me again? |
| 03:15:43.90 | Ray Withy | Yeah. It was just, are these just simply discussion minutes or by accepting these minutes, are we accepting something in these minutes as a change of protocol? |
| 03:16:06.65 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:16:09.09 | Mary Wagner | It's just a summary of your meeting, and the changes to the protocols are reflected in the other document, which is set forth in Item 4E. which you already approved. |
| 03:16:22.59 | Ray Withy | Right, so there's no need to make emotions. |
| 03:16:23.83 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 03:16:23.91 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 03:16:24.06 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 03:16:24.18 | Thomas Theodores | Did I pull the wrong document? |
| 03:16:27.37 | Thomas Theodores | Well, I'd like to say, I mean, I prefer, because it was a notice meeting. We did discuss this, and these meetings, these minutes seem to purport that is to state that we made some change in it. So I actually prefer that we say these are the minutes, but that we just have this caveat in there that we haven't agreed to any change in procedures, and our procedures are reflected in our protocols. Because, I mean, if you take minutes of a meeting and it reflects an agreement, then it looks like we agreed to that. |
| 03:16:57.26 | Unknown | Right. |
| 03:17:00.77 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:17:00.82 | Ray Withy | Yeah. I don't disagree with you, but maybe the thing to do is for both this item and the other one that you voted on? Because there are some things in here that we did kind of agree to. like the whole thing about forwarding on minutes of things and stuff like that. The better way for this is to sort of peel these apart and maybe some of these should go in the protocols. But they are. |
| 03:17:23.55 | Mary Wagner | But they are. So if you look on 4E, attachment 1, it picks up the change on the three-month period of the forecast item. Yeah, no, I saw that. Is this item H in there? It picked up the item on representing a council member sitting on a committee, a JPA. But it did not incorporate the language about the council's discussion on limiting debate. |
| 03:17:31.58 | Ray Withy | Yeah, no, I saw that. Is this item H in there? |
| 03:17:39.95 | Ray Withy | Right. |
| 03:17:40.22 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:17:41.49 | Ray Withy | Nice. |
| 03:17:41.98 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 03:17:42.30 | Ray Withy | incorporate Thank you. |
| 03:17:43.48 | Unknown | a little |
| 03:17:44.03 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:17:44.15 | Unknown | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 03:17:44.22 | Unknown | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 03:17:48.56 | Unknown | Right. Okay. |
| 03:17:49.84 | Mary Wagner | So I don't believe your motion on accepting the meeting summary should say that we're not changing the protocols because the protocols were changed in connection with your action on item 4E. |
| 03:17:49.89 | Unknown | Okay. |
| 03:17:58.44 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:17:58.48 | Thomas Theodores | changed Thank you. |
| 03:18:01.40 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 03:18:01.42 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. Well, and also I said it was relating to that particular provision. Right. Okay. Okay. Sorry. |
| 03:18:02.24 | Mary Wagner | AND ALSO, Yeah. Thank you. |
| 03:18:05.45 | Thomas Theodores | Okay, sorry. Yes, so my second stands. I think it's good to clarify. |
| 03:18:12.59 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 03:18:13.38 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 03:18:13.41 | Unknown | Okay. |
| 03:18:16.94 | Ray Withy | Are we finished with this? |
| 03:18:19.25 | Unknown | You want to know new information? |
| 03:18:19.84 | Valerie Pitts | Thank you. |
| 03:18:20.03 | Mary Wagner | Yeah. |
| 03:18:21.50 | Ray Withy | Oh, I'm waiting. I'll wait till midnight if you got any information. Fine with me. Yeah, nothing. Okay. City Manager. |
| 03:18:24.70 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:18:24.79 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 03:18:29.58 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 03:18:30.29 | Thomas Theodores | Well, I'm going to vote on that. I think we have to vote. |
| 03:18:33.65 | Mary Wagner | I'll call the vote. DEBORAH BORNBY- You have a motion and a second, and you need a roll call, or everybody say aye or thanks. |
| 03:18:39.86 | Ray Withy | Tom, will you just repeat your motion for the record, please? Thank you. |
| 03:18:42.77 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 03:18:44.77 | Thomas Theodores | So I move that we approve the minutes, what is this, February 2nd, with the caveat that the section on Rosenberg's Rules of Order note that it was merely a discussion of the council and that it does not reflect an agreement by council to change any of the protocols on that particular subject. |
| 03:18:50.32 | Unknown | 40 seconds. |
| 03:18:51.16 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 03:19:08.10 | Thomas Theodores | And I second. |
| 03:19:12.97 | Unknown | So call for vote. |
| 03:19:14.30 | Ray Withy | Yes, call the roll. |
| 03:19:18.11 | Unknown | Council member Fiverr? Yes. Councilman Biddiar? Yes. Councilmember Whitty? |
| 03:19:25.52 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 03:19:25.54 | Ray Withy | Yes. |
| 03:19:27.41 | Unknown | Vice Mayor Leone. Thank you. |
| 03:19:28.47 | Ray Withy | Yes. |
| 03:19:29.50 | Unknown | Mayor Weiner. |
| 03:19:30.55 | Ray Withy | Yes. Okay. City Manager, Quaterpasse. |
| 03:19:35.14 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 03:19:35.17 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:19:35.21 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 03:19:35.22 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:19:35.34 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 03:19:35.36 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:19:35.39 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 03:19:35.44 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:19:35.65 | Mary Wagner | THE END OF |
| 03:19:37.67 | Ray Withy | What the? 10.30. Thank you. |
| 03:19:42.63 | Adam Politzer | One hour late. Okay, I'm going to give you the Reader's Digest version of this. because we had a lot of items before. I want you to take a look at the calendar going forward and when you look at the future agenda items that are later on in your packet here. It's going to start to crank up and there's going to be a lot of information coming at you. And it's going to be really important that the council members reach out to staff with your questions ahead of time. Meet with staff ahead of time when possible. I know that your lives are very busy. But just really wanted to stress the importance of that. And with that said, In April, we'll start the priority calendar process. Uh, We'll also start to strategic planning. I have some dates here. that we're going to be looking to schedule. I know that it's It's not always possible to do weekdays, but I think weekends will be even more. when we're asking the management team to join us. So we'll be looking again at a Monday or Wednesday or a Friday. and try to get everyone able to join us. But I think at this point we may also only be able to have the majority because the likelihood of all the managers matching with your schedules is also difficult to predict. And then once we have the strategic planning session, we'll go into the budget process and you're going to hear a report at the next meeting on midyear. budget review. And right after that, we'll start. the budget process. AS WE HEARD TONIGHT, on the streets. There's, I think, a consensus and support from the Council our street. A project is important and should be funded to the highest level we possibly can with consideration to all the other needs within the organization and for the community. You're going to hear during the budget process the need for additional staff, for overtime, for the existing staff, for putting other projects that have been delayed or deferred onto the future. the, the discussions are really going to get Um, thick. and involved and complicated. One of those items that is on your future agenda is looking at the MarinShip and doing a MarinShip 101. with the Council. and potentially doing that. as a study session because there's no way that we can go into the Marinship Specific Plan as an educational tool to let people know what is in there without spending a considerable amount of time walking through that document. So that's one thing that I'll work with the mayor and the vice mayor on. of looking at maybe proposing that as a study session and invite all interested parties, including the community, you know, to come and sit through that that opportunity. Um, So I just want to make sure that the council is ready to roll up its sleeves. It's one of the reasons why we take the month of August off because you will need a break once we get through The budget. and approved that. And there's some real heavy lifting That's going to happen between now and then. And there'll be a few surprises that none of us can predict that we think will also as past practices. shown We'll also come up and before the council and how the community reacts to some of these discussion items, especially during the priority calendar process. And the budget process, I think, will be of interest to all. Two notes of importance and important that we get through your own uh, of supporters in the community. information out that Fort Baker will be coming at the meeting on the 26th to give their presentation. And I think that it's a value for either the community to watch it from their homes. or come here and participate and also be heard. If they have concerns or questions, Uh, to write their questions ahead of time and either send them to you or directly to the city staff. All of those are very... important. We heard tonight from the school district Again, it's a little bit disheartening We don't have a lot of community participation even at our meeting on this discussion, but I really do appreciate Valerie Pitts coming and walking through that presentation with us and giving us a little bit better understanding on how to move forward. One of the things that we didn't get an opportunity to talk about And I appreciate the mayor inviting Valerie back in the future. to talk about shared services and you would have noticed our children's librarian and our librarian in the audience because we do have an active participation. with both schools providing library services on campus right now for both the Bayside students and the Willow Creek students, and we are interested in keeping those services productive and ongoing as we go on to whatever happens in the future there. The other shared services you saw our police chief here, we have a very active recess and lunch time program where the officers are required to go over there when they are not in active Um, law enforcement. Thank you. action to spend time on their campus, to have positive impressions on the kids, not just when we come to arrest someone in their family, or arrest someone in their family and have only on enforcement is when they get to know the police department. There are several others. Park and Rec is obviously another one. We started discussions with Valerie and with our public works about how we can maintain their field to offset some of their costs. and get paid for doing that. And then again, also getting use of their facilities in trade. And that's what you see going on up and down. the county, let alone up and down the state, where the school districts and the cities are pulling their resources together and making their facilities more available to the public with this effort. Lastly, Vice Mayor Leon may want to comment on this in his council reports, but Councilmember and Associate Planner Heidi Scoble and I met with Congressman Huffman, yesterday to talk about the machine shop. challenge that we're having with the VA. Wanted to make sure that he was brought up to speed since we had been working with Lynn Woosley's office, Congressman Woosley's office. We wanted to make sure that now that he's making that trend transition from Assembly Member, State Assembly Member to U.S. Congress Member that he's up to date on that. We also talked about a few other items including environmental. sensitive issues like our undergrounds or underwater sewer pipes here off of our bridgeway. So those were just a few of the things that we talked about. We had all of 20 minutes of his time, which we were thankful to have, and we look forward to continuing to meet with him, Um, and strengthen that relationship with our congressmen. That concludes my report. Happy to answer any questions from the council. |
| 03:27:30.84 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:27:47.08 | Thomas Theodores | Mr. Mayor, I have a future agenda item regarding the dog park, Remington Dog Park. and the idea of creating an ordinance for guidelines. I've looked at what other cities do and they have policies in place like limit to, you know, three dogs per person, Um, you know, no vicious dogs and the like. And, uh, It just seems like, I know that we already have a vicious dog ordinance, but it seems like we could take the next step for residents and explore an ordinance for the dog park as well. |
| 03:28:31.63 | Ray Withy | Can I just comment on it? Maybe it's something we should to ask the Park and Rec Commission if they want to get involved on Thank you. Thank you. |
| 03:28:39.73 | Adam Politzer | Yeah, I think we would actually start with the Dog Park Association, the Friends of the Dog Park, and then have them make a recommendation to the Park and Rec Commission and then up to the Council. |
| 03:28:40.13 | Ray Withy | We would have... |
| 03:29:29.41 | Thomas Theodores | For clarification, which committees? I mean both Sausalito committees and county committees? |
| 03:29:34.01 | Ray Withy | and county committees that you're on. Yeah, all of them. Any committee that you're on that. |
| 03:29:36.19 | Thomas Theodores | Allah. |
| 03:30:09.64 | Unknown | Second. |
| 03:30:17.74 | Ray Withy | Excuse me, I did want to do one thing, even though we're adjourned. I'd like to adjourn in the memory of Bill Charles. Bill Charles was the proprietor for Winships for many, many years, and he passed on, so I'd like to close in his memory. |