| Time | Speaker | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:32.38 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 00:00:33.97 | Unknown | Yes. Thank you. |
| 00:00:35.57 | Unknown | thing again. |
| 00:00:37.22 | Ray Withy | All of these people here are foot and fence and crochet. |
| 00:00:40.19 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:00:41.61 | Ray Withy | Okay. |
| 00:00:45.61 | Ray Withy | Yeah. Thank you. I'll show some of that. Linda. |
| 00:00:56.56 | Ray Withy | Okay, then why not? |
| 00:01:05.47 | Ray Withy | Okay. Good evening and welcome to the Tuesday, November 19th, 2013th meeting. And roll call, please. |
| 00:01:14.79 | Unknown | Councilmember Pfeiffer? Here. Councilmember Theodorus? Present. Councilmember Whitty? Here. Vice Mayor Leone? Here. Mayor Weiner? |
| 00:01:17.64 | Ray Withy | Present. here. Here? Present. At this time here, we went into closed session, talked about two items. One was litigation. The other was negotiation on Am I okay? Thanks. Millie, would you lead us in the pledge? |
| 00:01:43.44 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 00:01:43.49 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 00:01:45.16 | Ray Withy | Sorry about that. |
| 00:01:50.31 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 00:01:50.36 | Unknown | I pledge allegiance to the flag. |
| 00:01:51.20 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. . Bye. |
| 00:01:52.96 | Unknown | of the United States of America. |
| 00:01:53.60 | Unknown | Bye. |
| 00:01:53.75 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 00:01:53.87 | Nancy Osborne | Thank you. |
| 00:01:54.04 | Unknown | Thanks. Thank you. |
| 00:01:56.57 | Unknown | I'm not going to be struggling. you |
| 00:01:57.52 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:01:57.53 | Unknown | Did you say? |
| 00:01:57.97 | Unknown | . One Nation. Thank you. God. Indivisible. with liberty and justice for our |
| 00:02:04.47 | Alice Merrill | Thank you. |
| 00:02:05.09 | Ray Withy | Thank you, Millie. I'll just respite. Okay. Okay. We had two items on closed session. You got me to the. Yeah, but I didn't ask if there was any public comment. Oh, there you go. Thank you. Is there any public comment on those closed session items? Okay. With that, moving ahead. Have approval of the agenda? Thank you. So, |
| 00:02:29.90 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 00:02:29.95 | Ray Withy | you |
| 00:02:30.12 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 00:02:31.45 | Ray Withy | Second. All in favor? Aye. Okay. Just moving quickly. |
| 00:02:33.22 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 00:02:33.36 | Unknown | Bye. |
| 00:02:36.34 | Ray Withy | Okay, next we're going to have the art festival report. Paul Anderson, you've done this before. |
| 00:02:36.61 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:02:44.41 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:02:46.52 | Unknown | It's a privilege to be here, Mayor Herb, distinguished council, staff, and members of the audience. First, I'd like to ask the Board of Trustee members from the Saucyotl Art Festival Foundation are here to please stand and be acknowledged if you don't mind. |
| 00:03:08.14 | Unknown | Thank you very much. 61 years the Sausalito Art Festival has been in Sausalito on the waterfront, with the exception of a couple of times they got to Caledonia Street. But it's been a great 61 years and once again this year it was equally great. because of the golden or the The Bay Bridge closing, we did see a drop in attendance for the first time in several years, but it was minor. And believe it or not, the people that did come decided to bless our city with good sales, our 266 artists, sold approximately two to 2.5 million dollars in art in the three days of the festival. The festival generated $28,000 in sales tax, through the sales of beverages and our merchandise. And the festival overall made what was we feel a tremendous It's a good word. benefit to our community. What's really lovely about the festival is that it's made up of non-profits. Foundation is a nonprofit. All the food booths are nonprofits. Everyone that makes a dollar at this event is a nonprofit, and they all put it back into the city of Sausalito. This year when I had a meeting with all the food booths afterwards, I asked one of those really fun questions. Okay, everybody that did really well, thumbs up. everybody this year that did A-OK? Feeling good? And anybody that. didn't thumbs down. I said, to start it off, let's do this. And there were all these hands. because everybody was smiling. One person was kind of quiet and said, well, I've got to do this. Of course, it was the Sausalito Women's Club. And the one person that didn't do this or did this said, I'm not going to say anything because we screwed up. But what's really nice is all those funds all came back to those nonprofits. And I think most of you know who they are and most of you have worked in one of those booths over the years. And that's what makes Sausalito and the Sausalito Art Festival so special. because we are a group of over 1,000 volunteers that each year Come to Sausalito. pick up garbage, pour beer, pour wine, Hopefully drink a little bit on the side. and fill about 2,400 shifts, the volunteer shifts, and to make this one of the most successful festivals in the country. Last August, a group that surveys patrons, collectors of art festivals. that are basically based in the Midwest. This firm, it's a nonprofit, but they actually survey collectors and patrons of the arts ask their patrons, to name the best festivals in the United States. Thank you. Now remember that this is in the Midwest. Most of the festivals are on the East Coast. There are several festivals that rank in the Midwest, and there's only a few of them here. Sausalito Art Festival ranked number 11 in the country. as the festival that patrons and art collectors most want to go to and purchase art. So it's a wonderful thing. The closest one that actually is someone that we've all looked at, we've had a great report with, was in Denver, Cherry Creek. They came in number nine. and La Quinta down in the desert, which is having a revival right now in terms of people taking care of their homes and buying art. was number seven on the list. But we were number 11 in the complete country, which is really amazing. The other thing that happened this year was we took and had to expand the grounds because there was a ship being built on the waterfront. And that ship needed to have exposure. We exposed them to 25,000 people who walked through the gates. And out of that, we had a treasure. man. of children. the treasure map took them all the way to the children's area. When they got back, they got a gold coin. Actually, it was chocolate, but we've got to be good. But the thing that was really wonderful is that the tall ship actually was seen by 25,000 people. It's on its way to making a real special part of Sausalito and Eventually it will be docked at the Bay Model and it will be a classroom. on the fact that the tall ship is in Sausalito and it was the entrance to our event this The Saucydo Art Festival Foundation last year funded for the first time a new venture called Artist Teaching Art, where we take artists that have been in the festival and take them into the public schools. is one of the things lacking in public schools that the government and the art or the educational has recognized that you have to have art and core subjects So we are now. in the midst of eight schools in Marin County. two of which are Willow Creek Academy, and Bayside Martin Luther King. And we now have 15 classes with 240 students having an art class given by the Artist Teaching Art. It's all funded out of the Saucydo Art Festival Foundation. And as part of that component is the tall ships So we have a videographer who's actually making the film over the next three years. It'll be used as an educational film to be able to tell people about what it means to make a boat, what it's going to be. It's exciting. One of the classes that we're teaching is a class in math and believe it or not the kids are learning about ratios and how to take an image and they're gonna be painting a mural. nine different pieces to put on the wall. of one of the containers that's in at the at the site right now. The other thing I think that's really great is that, you know, Goodwill. that is generated throughout the community. It's nice to be able to hear all the downtown merchants say the next week, best weekend we had all year. People stay in town. They really enjoy it. transportation system that we have. worked out with Rotary to be able to make transportation to and from the festival, easy to do. It works. We know that it works because this year the Rotary parked 6,100 cars. Thank you. There was no problems on Bridgeway. He had a really nice, easy community. It's all done through hard work and good planning, and that's the thing that we have, and that's why it's so important. that you all know that the Board of Trustees works 365 days a year to make sure that this happens. And in closing, I just want to say it's been a pleasure this year. Early on when I took over this position kind of by default for this year, I stopped and talked to Adam and I said, let's get together with the staff. Adam put together a meeting, sat and talked about the direction we were going. We were all together on the same page. We worked well together. We made things happen. In a year where we had a huge, terrible accident in Boston. Okay, this year we had to be more aware of the surrounding security problems. This year for the first time we had a camera. that was at the front gate. So in case something did happen, we could find out. We had people, believe it or not, early in the morning with dogs walking through to make sure that there was nothing there that shouldn't have been there. But no one ever saw it except they did see our extra security. So if you thought you were going to walk through the door and not get caught, you were going to get caught right off the bat. So sometimes it's better to be prepared rather than not prepared. And this year that was our goal. Have a great time, a great festival, put on something that's awesome that we're proud of, that we can be proud of, you can be proud of. And 62 will be next year at Labor Day Weekend. And I want you all to be there and volunteer. Thank you very much. |
| 00:10:48.64 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:10:48.65 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 00:10:48.69 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:10:48.92 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 00:10:48.96 | Unknown | Thank you. I'm not. |
| 00:10:49.36 | Ray Withy | Paul, also I'd like to thank you for the art festival for establishing a sister city booth for artists to come from any of those sister cities. |
| 00:11:03.22 | Unknown | What's really wonderful is you never know when you're going to get a call from someone out of the blue. And I get a call and it says, this is a call coming from Chile. And this guy by the name of Herb says, have you got a slot for an artist from Chile, part of the Sister City program? And I went, I think we could work that out and make sure he's a good artist. Anyway, thank you. Yeah, no, thank you very much. |
| 00:11:21.73 | Thomas Theodores | . |
| 00:11:22.73 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:11:22.76 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 00:11:22.79 | Unknown | Anyway, thank you. |
| 00:11:23.72 | Ray Withy | Yeah, no, thank you very much. |
| 00:11:25.54 | Unknown | Thanks a lot. |
| 00:11:26.08 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 00:11:26.10 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:11:31.72 | Ray Withy | okay if i could just say i just wanted the relationship between the city and the art festival it's come a long way as you well know and it's it's a very fruitful i think and productive relationship and i want to thank the whole board for their efforts in that in that front Good. And this |
| 00:11:50.59 | Thomas Theodores | Mr. Mayor, if I can make a comment. I also want to thank the Art Festival. You guys, I mean, every year you just do a fantastic job and you contribute so much to the community and Thank you very much. |
| 00:12:04.12 | Ray Withy | Okay, now the real fun starts for me. |
| 00:12:06.35 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 00:12:08.24 | Ray Withy | We're having a presentation and I'd like Mike Stone, Larry Mendel, Susan Rowe. Can I read you up here, please? |
| 00:12:27.58 | Ray Withy | I hope you've got to take the mic with you, though. |
| 00:12:29.53 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:12:30.16 | Ray Withy | Ha ha ha ha |
| 00:12:30.21 | Unknown | Ha ha ha ha ha ha. |
| 00:12:31.93 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:12:40.33 | Unknown | I guess I'm doing the introduction for him also. |
| 00:12:41.94 | Thomas Theodores | Poor him also. |
| 00:12:42.70 | George Orju | THE FAMILY. |
| 00:12:42.87 | Thomas Theodores | Yes. . |
| 00:12:48.28 | George Orju | I've been in downtown West Virginia. |
| 00:12:52.08 | Unknown | Mayor Weiner wanted to offer a very special thanks to each and every one of you standing up there before him. Susan Rowe. I know. one side or the other there. Susan Rowe. A certificate of appreciation. This certificate is awarded to Susan Rowe in recognition of your many years of serving our sister cities. We thank you for your unrelenting dedication to assure our sister city guests are at home when they visit us. and making sure that I, meaning Mayor Weiner. is respectable when visiting their countries. |
| 00:13:35.38 | Thomas Theodores | Yeah. Thank you. laughter |
| 00:13:49.61 | Unknown | Larry Mendel. certificate of appreciation for you. This certificate is awarded to Larry Mindell. in recognition of the 10-year celebration of the opening of poggios, and your recognition as the former mayors of Sausalito. We thank you for your thoughtfulness and your dedication to our community. and helping to make Sausalito. A wonderful place to live. |
| 00:14:29.74 | Unknown | And last, Mike Stone. certificate of appreciation for you. This certificate is awarded to Mike Stone. in recognition of 25 years of doing business in Sausalito. and your devoted service to the citizens of Sausalito. We thank you for your countless donations, your hours of volunteering, in all that you've done. to make this The best ever community. |
| 00:15:06.88 | Unknown | you I think there's a lot more movies that can be said about conduct and a lot of people. But you have really, to me, really come out and you've really been a part of the community. And you keep on giving. And you don't really ask anything in return. And to me, that's the best human you can be. So thank you very, very much. |
| 00:15:50.63 | John Bouldes | Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Larry, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:16:08.57 | Ray Withy | Go ahead. Before you leave, go ahead. One second. I just wanted to say to all three of you a couple quick comments, because you're all three very big parts of Sausalito. And Larry, I just had dinner at Poggio before I came here with my kids. And the nudie was delicious as usual. And Larry, thank you so much for also, some people don't realize how involved you were in the public safety building efforts and raising money and getting the campaign going and you've done that a number of times for the city of Saucyutu and efforts for the whole public and thank you so much for all your efforts there. |
| 00:16:11.47 | Thomas Theodores | One second. |
| 00:16:42.44 | Ray Withy | Susan, what can I say? Susan Rowe gets things done. And she, it's nice to have a second mother who can push me along every once in a while. And I appreciate that, I do. And my 25 years, I personally, I have a weird, my wife doesn't send me to the grocery store that often because I love grocery stores. It's one of those things that I just, as a little kid, I fell in love with, and just walking through grocery stores. And 25 years, and I think, when I think of Sausalito, I think of a few things, but one of the things I definitely think of is Molly Stone's. Even though you're, you know, expanded out in many other locations, I think of Molly Stone's as part of the heart of Sausalito, and I wanted to thank you for making it a quality institution. I want to thank you very much. |
| 00:17:30.94 | Ray Withy | Thank you very much. Hope you have them fellas. |
| 00:17:33.15 | Ray Withy | sorry for the rain |
| 00:17:36.74 | Ray Withy | Okay, next item that we have. Thank you very, very much. Next item that we have is public communications This is the time for the City Council to hear from citizens |
| 00:17:50.35 | Thomas Theodores | No. you |
| 00:17:51.22 | Ray Withy | Yeah, we got... Wait a second. Okay. |
| 00:18:02.58 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:18:02.97 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:18:03.07 | Jonathon Goldman | . |
| 00:18:03.37 | Unknown | you |
| 00:18:03.44 | Jonathon Goldman | . |
| 00:18:03.68 | Unknown | . |
| 00:18:04.18 | Ray Withy | That's what's your name, Kat? |
| 00:18:05.26 | Unknown | cat. Thank you very much. |
| 00:18:07.29 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 00:18:08.10 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:18:12.77 | Ray Withy | Who's that guy behind you? It's a sign. Elliot. Hey, Elliot. Elliot. |
| 00:18:22.93 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:18:24.95 | Ray Withy | No, but that's just good. |
| 00:18:24.99 | Ray Withy | No. |
| 00:18:25.97 | Unknown | you |
| 00:18:26.17 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 00:18:30.25 | Ray Withy | Thank you, Harry. Mm-mm-mm. |
| 00:18:37.27 | Ray Withy | OK. |
| 00:18:45.91 | Thomas Theodores | Yeah, great. All right, now that we've gotten rid of the riffraff. |
| 00:18:47.67 | Ray Withy | Yeah, great day, Disney. |
| 00:18:49.96 | Ray Withy | the riffraff. No, I'm teasing. |
| 00:18:51.03 | Ray Withy | that's easy Okay. Public communication, this is the time for the City Council to hear from citizens regarding matters that are not on the agenda except in very limited situations. State law. precludes the Council from taking any action or engaging in discussions concerning items of business. Is there anybody here that would like to make a comment on items that are not on the agenda? Please come up and state your name. Is the mic working? Okay, thank you. |
| 00:19:32.22 | Kristin Shannon | Good evening. How much fun it was to see Mike Stone here this evening. Mike was renting my home when he was putting together Molly Stone's, which |
| 00:19:42.14 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 00:19:43.12 | Kristin Shannon | Thank you. |
| 00:19:43.15 | Thomas Theodores | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 00:19:43.32 | Kristin Shannon | Thank you. And it was fun to look at his cupboards because they weren't all organic. Uh, I haven't been here in about 10 years. My name is Kristin Shannon. And 10 years ago, we formed a coalition which ranged amusingly enough from Bolinas to Sausalito to deal with some proposals the Park Service was making at the time. Some of you may recall that. There was a giant brochure. And it took nine communities two and a half years to sort out The fact that. we did not need seven more parking lots in Frank Valley. So some of you may have been aware of what was going on. So I'm coming here this evening very briefly to propose that we put on the agenda for a later time a conversation about the current Park Service proposals. How many of you have been involved in this in the last two years? Because in the other city councils that we've been working with, we've found very few people were informed about it. Basically, Park Service plans to put an additional 421,000 people per year through Sausalito, Tam Junction, as paying customers out at your woods. And to follow the Alcatraz model, which would enable them to book out six months in advance. Now this project came to public attention on September 18th. And as far as we've found, we haven't found one single mayor. Councilman. fire chief, sheriff, who were involved in any way with the rebirth of these proposals. So we would just like to gently suggest that at the next meeting we offer a background briefing on what the history of these proposals were because other city councils are moving into play now to voice their objections. Adding 421,000 additional people to Muir Woods starting next year. using the ACTRAZ model. would mean that we would be looking at basically The population of San Francisco times two, squeezing through Highway 1 and 101, and Tam Thank you. Or another way to think about it is we'd be looking at the population of Marin times five or six. squeezing through Sassolito. So I thought to come by this evening and speak very briefly to introduce the topic. We have some documents. I'm co-chair of the Mount Tam Task Force. You'd be able to look at full background and history on the Mount Tam Task Force. That's www.mout.com. TAMtaskforce.com. you because this has enormous implications. Mill Valley has already raised its objections and ask for status at the agency level so that they're not relying on trickle down information but would be directly informed. This project has a very short deadline. Initially it was two weeks to comment. With the help of Jared Huffman, we've extended that deadline for the communities to comment to the first week of January. So thank you very much. And I brought along this one piece that didn't get wet. |
| 00:23:35.22 | Ray Withy | That's right, you can leave it over. |
| 00:23:36.65 | Kristin Shannon | Yeah, which is the document which shows, for as far as we can tell, the first and only time, the word Bolinas next to the word Sausalito on a letterhead. |
| 00:23:48.04 | Ray Withy | Okay. |
| 00:23:48.33 | Kristin Shannon | you So did any of you, have any of you heard about this? Do you know about it? Thank you. |
| 00:23:52.43 | Ray Withy | We can't answer, and that's why I explained that at the beginning. |
| 00:23:55.57 | Kristin Shannon | Explain. Anyway, thank you very much. And I look forward to seeing you again in two weeks. |
| 00:23:58.22 | Ray Withy | Okay. All right. Thank you. Anybody else that would like to? Ray? |
| 00:24:13.69 | Ray Burgess | I thought sure all those people came here to listen to me, but they all went away. I'm Ray Burgess, 60 Woodward Avenue, and I wanted to speak to you tonight about a public stairway that connects the end of Marie Street with Woodward Avenue. I live very close to that stairway. In fact, I use it once a day to walk my dog, and several people do use that stairway, with one exception. My wife is afraid to go down that stairway because there's no railing there, and that's what I'm here to talk to you about. |
| 00:24:39.09 | Thomas Theodores | Mm-hmm. |
| 00:24:54.04 | Ray Burgess | It's been needing a railing for a very long time, and it's really a matter of safety. In my more mature years, I've become a little reluctant myself to go down those steps, but I still do. |
| 00:25:06.92 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:25:06.97 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 00:25:08.05 | Ray Burgess | And I don't want anybody to have an accident, not just for their own sake, but for the sake of Sausalito. To further emphasize my point, I recently got a questionnaire from the Age-Friendly Saucerita Task Force. Thank you. And I've already filled it out, but I held it back because there's an item in there that applies to what I'm just talking about. Question number seven says, what would make Sausalito accessible to you? And there are eight items there. And the very first one says, handrails on hill steps. What do you know about that? That's the only one that I have checked. So I'm grateful that Sausalito was giving some attention to this problem. The problem doesn't only apply to the Marie Street steps. There are several public stairways that don't have railings. and every one poses a potential safety problem for somebody. But I have a personal interest in the one at Marie Street steps. So I hope that the result of this survey will result in something happening in the way of railings to these public steps, but I also hope that Marie Street gets first priority. And that's what I wanted to emphasize to you. Those steps need a railing. Thank you. |
| 00:26:31.82 | Ray Withy | Thank you, Ray. |
| 00:26:33.03 | Ray Withy | Anybody else like Mickey? you Mayor, can I just say, since we can't count on these items, maybe we can direct staff to to both these items and to follow up with them |
| 00:26:44.47 | Ray Withy | Sure. |
| 00:26:45.08 | Ray Withy | right? |
| 00:26:48.18 | Ray Withy | Okay. Next item here, we have the action minutes of the approval of the minutes of the November 5, 2013 meeting. I move approval is submitted. Okay. |
| 00:27:00.57 | Unknown | Second, |
| 00:27:01.33 | Ray Withy | All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Okay. Next we have the consent calendar. Matters listed under the consent calendar are considered routine and non-controversial, require no discussion. I would expect that they have a unanimous council support and may be enacted by the council in one motion in the form listed below. Yes. |
| 00:27:26.59 | Thomas Theodores | Mr. Mayor, I just had a question for staff Mike Langford regarding item 4D, the county measure A tax proceeds. |
| 00:27:42.57 | Thomas Theodores | So I noticed it refers to a work plan that's due on, I guess, December 16th. And I saw the template for the work plan, but I didn't see Sausalito's work plan. I assume it's because of the process that they've laid out. It is process, yeah. I just wanted to confirm. |
| 00:27:58.54 | Unknown | It is a process. Yeah, it's a little premature to make a work plan for money we haven't accepted yet. So should Council consider accepting the free money, which I hope they do, staff will get together and we will put together a work plan for the funds. |
| 00:28:02.91 | Thomas Theodores | Yeah. |
| 00:28:12.61 | Thomas Theodores | So my question is with the work plan, will council have a look at that work plan? Will that go through consent as well or an agenda item? |
| 00:28:22.43 | Adam Politzer | Yeah, I think that Mike Langford and I had a brief conversation about this. The idea is for it to go through the Park and Rec Commission first and let them talk about the money. We're roughly talking about $40,000 a year. for the next nine years. prioritize that and then come back to the council with recommendations and then let the council give directions. |
| 00:28:44.49 | Thomas Theodores | Okay, great. Thank you. And so that was my question. Thank you. |
| 00:28:51.04 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 00:28:53.03 | Ray Withy | So we have a move to approve the consent calendar. So moved. Okay. Second. Okay. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Okay. Thank you. All right. Let's move ahead now to our business items. And the first item that we have is the rehabilitation of the public peer. And that would be Lily and Jonathan. Thank you. |
| 00:29:02.46 | Thomas Theodores | Bye. |
| 00:29:02.80 | Thomas Theodores | Bye. |
| 00:29:02.83 | Thomas Theodores | Bye. |
| 00:29:02.85 | Thomas Theodores | Yeah. |
| 00:29:43.67 | Unknown | Good evening, Mr. Mayor, council members. Tonight's item is a discussion of the next steps for the public here on Bridgeway, adjacent to the Trident. In terms of background, the pier was in use as early as 1936 through 2001. In 2001, there was a storm that destroyed the pier. In 2013, the city secured grant funding to rebuild the pier and the council approved that funding in July of this year. In October, the Planning Commission considered a request to approve permits for the rehabilitation of the peer. At that meeting, the Planning Commission directed staff to return with a resolution of denial, denying the permits. |
| 00:30:34.80 | Unknown | Here's a rendering of the design that the Planning Commission reviewed and denied at that October meeting. This rendering shows that the majority of the pier would be above water. The majority of the pier above water would need to be raised by 3 1⁄2 feet. That was at that time, it was three and a half feet, and that would be to comply with city regulations regarding construction in the floodplain zone. Therefore, there would need to be a two-level pier to access that upper level portion of the pier. And at the time, there was a switchback ramp design to get up to that level. Also at the time, the materials proposed were Alaskan yellow cedar decking and very thin cable railings. We have some of those materials if you'd like to take a look at them this evening. There's some photographs on the side of the screen that show what the concept was for the railings at the time with that thin steel cabling. There was also a concrete ramp proposed to replace the existing stairs going down from the pier to the Bridgeway Shoreline. |
| 00:31:48.26 | Unknown | After the October Planning Commission meeting, staff advised the council as the property owner of the Planning Commission's direction. Directly before that council meeting, staff had a conversation with the project engineer who indicated that there was a possibility that the pier could be lowered by as much as two and a half feet. Since that time, it's been determined that the pier cannot be lowered by that much, but can be lowered somewhat. At the council meeting in October, staff provided a list of options to the council, shown on the screen here. And the public provided comment and the council directed staff to return to the planning commission with revised design. that had the pier at the lowest elevation possible and provided a simpler ramp up to that upper level. Since that time, staff has worked with the project engineer to develop an alternative design and also is in discussions with the grant administrator and has requested extension of the deadline that was originally to have construction be finished by the end of January next year. And the extension is through April of next year. |
| 00:33:05.36 | Unknown | At the November 6th Planning Commission meeting, staff presented a revised design concept to the Planning Commission. and recommended that the Commission provide design direction with regards to the peer. The design at that time included a pier height of two feet above the sidewalk and a much simpler ramp design. So this is the rendering that was presented to the Commission. The engineer was able to lower the pier by 1 and 1 half feet for a total height increase of 2 feet on the upper level. So this is what the rendering shows. He was also able to provide a straight ramp without a switch back to that upper level. This design also shows a different railing design. So it's not the thin steel cabling, but it's a horizontal, or it's a vertical steel rails. And we have a picture in the lower right-hand corner of what that could look like. |
| 00:34:08.12 | Unknown | Although it would be ideal, the ramp cannot be placed directly flush on the side of the pier next to the trident due to the location of a switch box for the pump station, and that's – they have an arrow there where that – where those controls are located. It needs to have access in front of it. The designer also showed the location and the potential design of benches on the pier in this design. |
| 00:34:37.60 | Unknown | Staff was recommending at that commission meeting that the commission provide design direction and allow staff to return with a more complete revised design for the commission to consider. The Commission decided to deny the original project on a 4-0 vote, without providing significant design direction. Each Planning Commission decision is appealable to the City Council within 10 calendar days of the Commission's decision. And the deadline for filing an appeal of the Planning Commission's decision on this project was November 18th, which was yesterday. And in order to preserve the right of the council to consider an appeal on the project, the Public Works Director did file an appeal last Friday. |
| 00:35:24.68 | Unknown | Since the Planning Commission meeting, the city engineer has worked with the project designer to produce a slightly different alternative design, which is similar to the rendering presented to the Planning Commission in early November, and that's on the screen here. This design shows the ramp more integrated into the upper level. And then it also shows the concrete ramp down to the bridgeway shoreline walkway. that ramp would have handrails on it. |
| 00:36:00.71 | Unknown | to reconstruct a rehabilitated peer with the grant funds and in compliance with the current FEMA regulations and the anticipated revised FEMA maps. In addition to accounting for predicted sea level rise within the design life of the project, staff in the project designer have determined that the pier must be raised so that the top of the deck level of the pier would be between two to two and a half feet above the bridgeway sidewalk. This would be in compliance with the anticipated revised FEMA maps that mandate that the cure be constructed. at the 10-foot base flood elevation level. Current FEMA regulations arguably allow for the pier to be rebuilt at the nine-foot base flood elevation level. And this is one foot lower than the elevation that the city engineer and the designer have designed the current rendering to. The reason why staff and the designer are not recommending building to this elevation is because FEMA has publicly issued findings. indicating that the existing BFE, the base flood elevation of nine feet, you does not adequately protect against the possibility of flood damage and the BFE will be raised to 10 feet. in 2014 or in early 2015. Additionally, BCDC, the Bay Conservation and Development Commission, has put forward information on sea level rise projections and staff use those projections to inform the rationale for building at the 10-foot BFE. Another alternative that exists in the municipal code is a floodplain variance. The variance from the floodplain regulations are specified in the municipal code, and it applies to the circumstance where strict findings can be made for an exception to that code. Some of those requirements were listed in the staff report. The city engineer has evaluated the project and is of the opinion that the findings necessary for a variance cannot be made. |
| 00:38:15.52 | Unknown | Staff has outlined two options for moving forward for future steps. The first is that the council consider the appeal of the Planning Commission decision. The council could choose to remand design elements to the OMIC committee for consideration for discussion of elements such as... the railing design or the decking material. They could, you could remand that discussion back to the Planning Commission for certain design elements, or you could choose to discuss it yourselves. And then the project could be, it could come back to you for consideration of the appeal. and you could reverse the Planning Commission's decision and approve the peer project. The second option is to direct staff to withdraw the appeal. The council could then decide to abandon the project and leave the remaining what's remaining of the pier in the water. You could decide to abandon the project and approve funds to remove as much as what's remaining as possible. Or you could direct staff to submit a new application for a revised design that would go back through the planning commission process. |
| 00:39:32.25 | Unknown | In consideration of the deadline for the construction of the pier within the, using the grant funds that the city has secured, staff recommends that the council consider the appeal of the Planning Commission's decision at your first meeting in January. In the meantime, we recommend that you direct the OMIC committee to review the design elements and forward that recommendation back to the council. for a discussion during the consideration of the appeal. With that, staff recommends that the council provide direction on the next steps with this project, including direction on the appeal of the Planning Commission decision. And that concludes our staff report. And I'm available for questions. And your public works director is available for questions as well. |
| 00:40:21.49 | Ray Withy | Okay. Okay, let's start up here. Questions? Right. Thank you. |
| 00:40:27.84 | Thomas Theodores | Yeah, I've got a number of questions. So my question number one, and then I'll yield, is in relation to... |
| 00:40:32.38 | Ray Withy | I don't know. |
| 00:40:32.70 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:40:36.09 | Thomas Theodores | I'm trying to understand the relationship between our fordinance about construction within the floodplain and FEMA regulations. And so, Have we, in our ordinance, essentially adopted something that's mandated by FEMA and therefore basically were sort of irrelevant in the process. FEMA mandate regulation provides rules, and we've just, as a matter of form, adopted it. or Have we got some other powers within the ordinance that FEMA has either not granted and we've given ourselves. So I'm just trying to understand how all of this works and therefore how the concept of a variance can work. How can we have an authority as a city council to grant a variance to something that is a FEMA mandate. So that is the basis of the sort of question. |
| 00:41:39.81 | Jonathon Goldman | I'll try to help clarify that briefly. Jonathan Goldman, your Director of Public Works and City Engineer and ADA Coordinator and Floodplate Administrator. In a sense, the community has voluntarily agreed to adopt an ordinance that allows us to, um, benefit from the National Flood Insurance Program. That's really a voluntary decision. Our ordinance as it stands now is essentially the minimum associated with the threshold for compliance with that program and gives people in Sausalito, property owners, the benefit of being able to buy flood insurance under that federal program. Um, The structure for a variance, if you read the code, is really not set up for this particular situation, but arguably it applies. the Uh. some entity withstanding in the matter, would need basically to appeal the floodplain administrators determination on a project such as this to the appeals board that is constituted in the ordinance and that's the city council. And the city council does have the authority to grant a variance from the floodplain ordinance under circumstances that are described in the code. As it turns out, one of our planning commissioners contacted FEMA to ask questions directly about that process and specifically asked whether if the council granted a variance in this circumstance that would somehow compromise our standing as a community in the National Flood Insurance Program. And FEMA rather diplomatically answered, not necessarily, no. That doesn't necessarily simply and elegantly answer your question, but the fact of the matter is that we have a city engineer and a floodplain administrator who has certain duties under both FEMA regulations and registration as a civil engineer in the state of California and a duty to protect. the public health and the environment. that authority is essentially being exercised here as is the professional engineering registration authority that our designer has. |
| 00:44:39.28 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:44:42.16 | Unknown | The original pier, was that at sidewalk height or was that at a different height? Do we know? No. |
| 00:44:49.80 | Unknown | The one that was constructed in 1936? Yes, and destroyed. |
| 00:44:52.34 | Unknown | Yes, and destroyed. |
| 00:44:53.45 | Unknown | Thank you. Sidewalk. Sidewalk, hi. |
| 00:45:00.01 | Unknown | Okay, that was so easy. But I... |
| 00:45:02.48 | Unknown | See you. |
| 00:45:04.27 | Unknown | My understanding was there were two designs that you were considering at the mid-level height at the two to two and a half. We only saw one. And I guess part of that question is why were the rails changed from the They were horizontal. And they were small wires, I think, to the vertical. I was wondering why the change in design from |
| 00:45:24.33 | Unknown | We heard at the Planning Commission meeting in October, where they considered this design, that the railings look too modern. So the project designer redesigned the railings to show something else and to see if they would like those railings. |
| 00:45:41.05 | Unknown | Are they the same thickness or width, or are they? |
| 00:45:43.87 | Unknown | No, they're thicker. Thicker. They're more, I don't know if you can actually see the picture in the right hand corner there. |
| 00:45:44.77 | Unknown | thicker. |
| 00:45:50.52 | Unknown | So they're more likely to obstruct the view, is that fair? |
| 00:45:54.62 | Ray Withy | And they're similar to the ones that are at, by the ferry, it looks like to me. Is that correct? Right. |
| 00:46:03.23 | Jonathon Goldman | I think so, and then if I may, just back on the Councilmember Theodorus' question. The change in elevation between the initial proposal and the second proposal, the first proposal was the professional advice of our designer, Kers Claussen, and it's based on his understanding of how erroneous FEMA's base blood elevation is with respect to actual conditions. When resistance to that significantly elevated pier became obvious. I asked him to redesign it and basically make it as low as he could, and that's where the second elevation of the pier was. |
| 00:46:52.59 | Ray Withy | on that same point. you If you can flip to the slide where it has the 9 and the 10 feet. There you go. What is the real driver difference between the 10 and the 9 here? |
| 00:47:09.92 | Jonathon Goldman | Nine plus nine feet with respect to the 1988 North American vertical datum is the current 100-year base blood elevation in this part of Sausalito. And 10 plus 10 is the proposed base blood elevation for this part of Sausalito. |
| 00:47:29.00 | Ray Withy | So technically, and I'm not saying which one is better, it's within, without a variance, you could grant the perp, you could adhere to the current standards, if you, the 9 feet BFE, or if you wanted to be proactive and maybe get ahead of the curve for the future standards, Thank you. |
| 00:47:49.57 | Jonathon Goldman | Okay. |
| 00:47:50.05 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 00:47:50.08 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. |
| 00:47:50.11 | Ray Withy | with |
| 00:47:50.35 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. I hear your question. I feel a little bit differently about it. |
| 00:47:56.95 | Ray Withy | yeah i'm not saying which way i feel personally i'm just |
| 00:47:59.45 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. I'm going to tell you how I do it. I'm going to ask the question. Neither the city engineer nor the designer will support a design that disregards the science associated with FEMA's coastal zone analysis and tells us that the nine-foot BFE is not adequately protective of this structure and the structures that would be damaged if we built this and it came apart in a 100-year event. |
| 00:48:04.24 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:48:29.74 | Ray Withy | Tell me how you really feel, because I didn't quite get the gist of that. No, no, I'm kidding. |
| 00:48:36.44 | Thomas Theodores | Mr. Mayor, I have a question about the height and then I have a question about the benches in the middle. So just to clarify the height piece, is it FEMA's mandate, the 9 BFE, that's FEMA's mandate? |
| 00:48:53.39 | Jonathon Goldman | That is the current effective base float elevation for our our map panel, blood insurance roadmap, plus nine. |
| 00:49:03.71 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. Okay, so what does FEMA mandate? Is that the same, one and the same, what you just said? |
| 00:49:12.18 | Thomas Theodores | Yes. |
| 00:49:12.65 | Thomas Theodores | Okay, so my next question has to do with the benches in the middle. It's my understanding, I guess I have two questions. One, are those there because of a BCDC influence? That's what I heard. I'm not sure, but the second question is, If so, is there concern with respect to, I can just see someone standing there casting and possibly hooking someone, posing a danger. So I was wondering if you could respond to that. |
| 00:49:44.93 | Jonathon Goldman | I'm not seeing it. |
| 00:49:49.89 | Jonathon Goldman | Well, at the risk of being flipped, that risk exists whether there are benches or not. And having personally hooked people and been hooked, I wish we could figure out a way to prevent that. I suppose we could invent something, but... |
| 00:50:07.81 | Ray Withy | that you strap on as you go on to this. |
| 00:50:08.88 | Jonathon Goldman | strap on as you go on to this. The Bay Conservation and Development Commission's mission is to facilitate, to foster public access to the water. And benches are a part of their kind of mantra. The opportunity to sit instead of having to stand, the opportunity to appreciate a view. The reason, for example, that we have benches in many of the other waterfront improvements that are publicly accessible in Sausalito is because BCDC requires them. They're also furniture. So in the short term, the details about where the benches are located and how they look isn't really relevant. We added the, we asked the designer to add benches based on landscape architect at BCDC's advice because we wanted the planning commission to know that BCDC was giving us that advice. But ultimately, Thank you. You know, the benches could be located any other reasonable place. They can be movable. They could be the same kind of benches that we have other places. We just didn't want to mislead the Planning Commission about what the project would consist of. |
| 00:51:41.35 | Unknown | Another question, if we were to decide to uphold the appeal or decide not to go forward with this project, do we have, can we get any idea of what the cost would be to remove the peer structure? This will be another for Public Works Director, please. Yeah, sorry. |
| 00:52:01.03 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. I apologize, but I don't have any reasonable basis for estimating that cost at this point. |
| 00:52:12.44 | Ray Withy | to me. |
| 00:52:14.09 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. |
| 00:52:14.29 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 00:52:14.39 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. |
| 00:52:14.43 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 00:52:14.49 | Jonathon Goldman | Right. |
| 00:52:14.68 | Ray Withy | Yeah. Sure. |
| 00:52:15.39 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. |
| 00:52:15.51 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 00:52:15.88 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. |
| 00:52:15.96 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 00:52:16.03 | Ray Burgess | Thank you. |
| 00:52:16.13 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 00:52:16.23 | Thomas Theodores | So my other sort of line of question is around actually the authority that we have or the process of bypassing the Planning Commission on this. |
| 00:52:16.27 | Ray Withy | THE END OF |
| 00:52:30.86 | Thomas Theodores | you |
| 00:52:30.91 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 00:52:30.95 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 00:52:30.97 | Thomas Theodores | No. |
| 00:52:31.61 | Thomas Theodores | And so I want to know what our rules allow us to do. and sort of a related issue question, which is, It seems like we keep running into the process of what our process is when we're the applicant. And it seems continually, and so do we actually have in our code anywhere a provision that states how we actually deal with things when we're the applicant. |
| 00:53:06.64 | Mary Wagner | No. But let me tell you what we've done, and why you see it going back and forth. So as the property owner, the city is directing, your project. So it's not unlike a private project that goes to the Planning Commission and receives direction or a denial or a modification that then returns to that property owner and they say, okay go ahead and lower it two feet or you know put in this other feature or if the Planning Commission wants the roof lowered, show me what that's going to look like and then take it back to them to look at. So, That's the process that we're following. That's what we did with the public safety building on, you know, a very large scale. It's consistent with what we did with the bathroom, the public bathroom that was recently completed. It's also consistent with what occurred with the Malia project down by Bridgeway Marine where it involved a piece of the Dunphy Park. So it's the step that you don't see in public when there's a private property owner that's coming back to you for direction. than The other piece of it is the appeal portion, and I don't know if you were asking that as well. So a project can be appealed, from following a final decision by the Planning Commission to the council as the council. the body that's going to decide that. And there is process, obviously, in your zoning ordinance for that. |
| 00:54:37.38 | Thomas Theodores | Sure. |
| 00:54:41.19 | Thomas Theodores | Sure, but your recommendation is to send us back to Olmed. TO around almost a redesign, or what design elements are acceptable or not acceptable, and then to come back to us. So I'm trying to understand how that works. |
| 00:54:59.38 | Ray Withy | Do you want to flip back to that slide where you have the options and then maybe Lily walk us through those options again? |
| 00:55:06.86 | Unknown | So there's two big options. One is to consider the appeal. The other one is to direct us to withdraw the appeal. The consideration of the appeal, you could consider the appeal yourselves without any design consultation from OMIC committee or the planning commission, and you can overturn the Planning Commission's decision, which was to deny the three and a half foot tall pier. And you could overturn that approving the pier project, and you could approve it at a lower height, you could approve it with different railing design, You can do what you'd like with it. You could also ask design direction from OMIT and say, what do you think about the railings? Do you want them to be vertical or horizontal? Get that direction and then consider the appeal, overturn the Planning Commission's decision and approve those new plans. |
| 00:55:46.39 | Unknown | moment. |
| 00:55:59.41 | Adam Politzer | And if I can just add a comment here. The reason why staff was recommending OMIT was to actually call it out as a special meeting and invite the designer, invite the public that have participated at the Planning Commission meeting Council meetings. I met with staff. sent in letters, and come and have a lengthy discussion about all of the ITEMS RELATED TO IT. and we thought OMIT is where we've done this before in the past, this is an opportunity to kind of hold a special community meeting for this discussion. and then bring back in January recommendations. Hopefully, you know, there's some level of consensus And then again, The council could refer it back to the Planning Commission or take action Um, I'm not sure. from that point forward. There is a little timing component in here that I don't remember seeing a slide on. And that's... for us when we worked backwards If we were to move forward in building any peer, using the funds that are available by the end of April 2014. moving backwards from when we would have to go out to bid when we would have to approve an award, the construction, They had and then actually construct it. because we have to be complete by the end of April. It looks like the end of January is when the council would have to take some action. going to OMIT in December, holding a special meeting at the beginning of December, and then coming back to Council in January, for direction. We think that buys some time to at least move this discussion in the public forward. |
| 00:57:39.59 | Thomas Theodores | Mr. Mayor, I have a question. So Lily, we could also send this back to Planning Commission where they could apply their expertise to review the design elements possibly even a subcommittee to consider strategies for design and to submit that recommendation to council? Is that one option? |
| 00:57:59.99 | Unknown | It's a possibility. Our concern would be timing, and it would also be the recent action of the Planning Commission and our request at their last meeting to consider alternative, give us some design direction, and the refusal of the Planning Commission to do that. |
| 00:58:16.63 | Thomas Theodores | Can you share with me why the Planning Commission refused to consider that request. |
| 00:58:25.32 | Ray Withy | Thank you. I don't think you need to care about that. |
| 00:58:28.78 | Thomas Theodores | Because my sense is that they would be amenable to that. |
| 00:58:29.96 | Unknown | Bye. |
| 00:58:30.15 | Ray Withy | Peace. |
| 00:58:32.82 | Unknown | No. If you looked, I mean, I happened to review the thing. Yeah, it wasn't pleasant. And they didn't see, their position was they didn't want to redesign this. They wanted a final design. And so I think if you reviewed their action, I think the reasonable conclusion was they would not be open to taking the plan and redesigning it. I think that's why possibly. you know, going to Omid, Now, I guess I do have a kind of following with a question is, |
| 00:58:55.28 | Unknown | Like, is it? |
| 00:58:58.47 | Unknown | Do we need to, since we're likely to make significant changes, Are we required to go back after the redesign and go to planning or can we just pass them |
| 00:59:07.19 | Ray Withy | I think. |
| 00:59:08.15 | Unknown | So, great question. |
| 00:59:09.10 | Mary Wagner | If you... |
| 00:59:09.25 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 00:59:10.58 | Mary Wagner | If the council directs staff tonight to have the appeal remain in place and actually bring that forward for your consideration. That appeal hearing's de novo. So if there were modifications or changes to the project, those don't have to return to the Planning Commission. |
| 00:59:27.62 | Ray Withy | In theory, on an appeal, you can do whatever You have a lot of discretion Because you're the applicant, right, in this particular scenario where the applicant |
| 00:59:35.96 | Mary Wagner | The council, regardless of your position as the applicant or the property owner, the council sitting as a hearing body on appeal of the Planning Commission decision |
| 00:59:43.49 | Ray Withy | It's fun. |
| 00:59:44.43 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:59:44.48 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:59:44.67 | Unknown | Oh. |
| 00:59:44.69 | Ray Withy | Right. |
| 00:59:45.14 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:59:46.34 | Mary Wagner | here's that appeal de novo. So just like the Planning Commission could have said, change that that railing to this material painted a different color, we think it needs to be tilted to the left or the right. You know, those types, all those things are available to the house as well. You said you wanted to build a casino. That would be a different thing. |
| 00:59:59.37 | Ray Withy | Those are all okay. You said you wanted to build a casino. Available to the hills as well. That would be a different story altogether. Correct. |
| 01:00:04.80 | Mary Wagner | Correct. |
| 01:00:05.11 | Ray Withy | Yeah. Mary, quick question. So in terms of process, one of the things we could also do is remand it under the, we could say we uphold the appeal. these things. But hey, if we're not so sure about the railing, that's the one thing you could send it back design note to the Planning Commission, I'm saying. saying, hey, review these three elements and these three elements only. If they refuse to review them, then they've had their shot at it, and you know, |
| 01:00:35.56 | Mary Wagner | Yes, and the council's taken actions of that type in the past on other appeals where they've said, please review the height and the impact on the view to the neighbor if we change it to this. And then you've either just asked for input or direction from the planning commission that can come back to you if necessary. |
| 01:00:52.88 | Ray Withy | Yeah. on just a certain number of things and they can't rather than revisit the whole project. |
| 01:00:57.49 | Mary Wagner | visit the whole project. Sure, the council can do that. |
| 01:01:01.33 | Unknown | Can I add on to that as well? The thing to remember though is the timing aspect of it. |
| 01:01:01.42 | Mary Wagner | Can I ask? |
| 01:01:02.01 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 01:01:06.61 | Ray Withy | Well, when is the next planning commission meeting? |
| 01:01:10.97 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:01:11.00 | Mary Wagner | December 4th. |
| 01:01:11.80 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:01:11.83 | Mary Wagner | I just want to remind you, the appeal isn't in front of you tonight. So we're not asking... The appeal, the actual council determination on the appeal of the Planning Commission decision is not on your agenda tonight. All we're asking you for tonight is direction as the property owner on how you would like to proceed. in. if there had been ample time, staff could have brought you |
| 01:01:34.26 | Unknown | Okay. |
| 01:01:36.80 | Mary Wagner | an action to say, do you want staff to appeal this determination? but there wasn't time to do that because there wasn't a meeting available between the Planning Commission action and the 10 days after that to do that. So what we're bringing to you tonight is an update. to say here's what's occurred since we last discussed this topic and get direction on next steps. |
| 01:01:57.17 | Ray Withy | And just to clarify, so the city, as the applicant, has the right to appeal to itself. |
| 01:02:04.18 | Mary Wagner | The city as the applicant has the right to appeal to itself. The city council as a body doesn't have the right that some codes grant to city councils to pull up decisions as a body. But that isn't what occurred here. Staff actually filed the appeal. |
| 01:02:16.04 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 01:02:16.19 | Unknown | I'm sorry. |
| 01:02:22.97 | Ray Withy | and an update. Are you looking for anything else from us tonight? |
| 01:02:26.06 | Unknown | We're looking for direction on how to proceed. So the options in front of you to either, to make that first decision if you would like to consider an appeal or not, and then whichever direction you go, what the next steps under that are. |
| 01:02:26.09 | Mary Wagner | We're looking for direction on how to |
| 01:02:39.71 | Thomas Theodores | Mr. Mayor, I have a question. So, Lily, it says one of the options up there is to remain to the Planning Commission to review the design elements. So your point earlier was that the Planning Commission didn't want to kind of start from scratch and redesign themselves, but they're amenable to looking at taking a second look at the design elements. Is that the case? Or would they do it with council direction? |
| 01:03:03.64 | Unknown | We put that up there because it is an option that you could consider. And like Vice Mayor Leon stated, you could send it back to the Planning Commission with a very specified list of items to consider. the issue would be timing because we would have to bring before you an appeal and then at that hearing you would direct us to return to the Planning Commission for consideration of those specific items. we would go to the Planning Commission and get that determination. Hopefully it would occur in one meeting, and then we would come back to you. it's a little questionable as far as if a final decision by the City Council could be made by the end of January, with that direction. |
| 01:03:42.03 | Ray Withy | Okay. Because you only have one possibility of one meeting? Because you don't necessarily, as the applicant, you can say, I want my decision tonight. |
| 01:03:42.18 | Unknown | Okay. WE HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF |
| 01:03:48.78 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 01:03:49.04 | Thomas Theodores | but you, |
| 01:03:52.22 | Ray Withy | one way or the other from you, Joe Schmoe, Planning Commissioner, which people have done to me, as I said, on that board before. And usually we give people the option. And if they say yes, then you take your chances. So, and then we could just appeal it to ourselves and go from there. I mean, so having one meeting may be a highly charged meeting perhaps, but it still is a possibility of getting things done. Is that correct? Thank you. |
| 01:04:19.07 | Adam Politzer | Can I answer that? You know, I think staff is sensitive to the comments that have already been made through the two times it's gone in front of the planning commission. |
| 01:04:19.21 | Thomas Theodores | Can I answer? |
| 01:04:31.61 | Adam Politzer | and on both occasions, they've rendered a decision of denial. So going back a third time, without some |
| 01:04:41.50 | Ray Withy | You sent it back with some very specific, I want your opinion is on these design elements. And that's it. |
| 01:04:48.44 | Adam Politzer | Right. And our concern is between now and the first meeting in January with the winter holidays, we may not be able to get a planning commission in and an OMIT meeting where we have the community and the designer there to get some consensus from the community on what design to bring back to either to the council or back to the planning commission. Thank you. |
| 01:05:14.02 | Ray Withy | Why do you need...I can't remember a public omit committee that was kind of like...they're all public meetings, but I can't remember one that was more... with built for public input. |
| 01:05:24.82 | Adam Politzer | Yeah, the downtown horseshoe, when we were talking about the buses, We had several OLEMENT meetings in the evening. We actually scheduled a few of those in the evening and we have the designer here. And we had Michael Rex who was also recommending alternative design and we had a decent attendance from the public participating in that direction. So that's why we think there would be some benefit of holding that meeting. I think it's awkward and difficult to have a designer come to a council meeting And have this type of. informal discussion. or have the designer come to the Planning Commission meeting and have an informal discussion Let's have the informal discussion and invite the public and then bring it back to the council for direction which could include holding a special planning commission meeting if necessary. to make the time limits work or just bringing it back to the city council for their action. |
| 01:06:25.11 | Ray Withy | Okay. |
| 01:06:25.91 | Unknown | And we could conceivably appoint a special task force of subcommittee here that heard it. |
| 01:06:31.04 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 01:06:31.07 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:06:31.15 | Ray Withy | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 01:06:31.22 | Unknown | . |
| 01:06:31.27 | Ray Withy | All right. |
| 01:06:31.46 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:06:31.53 | Ray Withy | Okay. |
| 01:06:31.80 | Ray Withy | Yeah. |
| 01:06:32.20 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 01:06:32.34 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:06:33.30 | Ray Withy | I'm going to open this up first to the public, see if there's any public comment on this item on the pier. Please come up and state your name. |
| 01:06:51.54 | Ray Withy | Don't forget you have a clock there that you can see. It's three minutes. |
| 01:07:26.08 | Unknown | I gave these same pictures to the Planning Commission. And I'll state your name. Oh, I'm sorry. My name is Daniel Merriam, 565 Bridgeway, owner resident. |
| 01:07:29.15 | Ray Withy | You know, |
| 01:07:37.47 | Unknown | I gave these same pictures to the Planning Commission, and I think they demonstrate a better perspective on how the view will be impacted. I also drew in there on the lower image how railings on the wheelchair ramps would look on the street. I want to first start by saying the lower third of this deck, with the stairs and ramp, to me appears to be in a violation of both local and FEMA code. Although it would be over a stone riprap area, I don't believe that it excuses it from code compliance under the definitions of the FEMA code and the municipal code. Also, there are not enough pylons, and they are not in the right locations to support a peer of that weight that would be subject to the type of stresses that would go under, especially given the excessive framing that would be required to support it to span those distances where the pylons are missing. Most of those pylons are in decay, and they have grass growing out of them. The pylon extensions and cross-bracing needed for elevating the pier violate local and FEMA code. That is, that they're cross-framing and they would be below the floodplain. The lower ramp, would also be a violation of numerous codes. It's impractical and it will get slippery when wet. and it's due to the tidewater rising over that. I think it's impractical to install a ramp that has to be removed when the sewer pipe removal project begins. I want to point out that those lower ramp railings are not represented in the presentation drawings. And if you saw them, if you saw story polls for those, you might have a different opinion of the overall impact of this project. Another area regarding variances, I realize that it's unlikely that we'll seek a variance because engineers don't want to build the pier at the lowest possible height. They want to build it at the safest height. But... Historic significance in the site due to the restaurant being adjacent to it is a reasonable cause for a variance. Also, the surrounding infrastructure being far below floodplain is also a reasonable reason to grant a variance from FEMA and I think the Municipal Code as well. This peer is only going to be usable from one side. we would only gain 50 lineal feet of extra water frontage and we would block 1,200 feet of view from public sidewalks. I have a lot more points, and they are mentioned in there. Thank you for listening. I thank you for this opportunity to express our concerns. I think this is really a big aesthetic question for the city, and I don't think you should throw away the openness and the views without really giving it a good, strong consideration. Thank you. |
| 01:10:54.30 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:10:54.32 | Ray Withy | Anybody else? |
| 01:10:54.93 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:10:54.98 | Ray Withy | I'd like to speak. |
| 01:11:04.51 | Alice Merrill | Hi, Alice Merrill. Or do I love? I'll say Pelican Harbor. So I've always wanted access to the waterfront, as you guys all know. And I applaud you going forward with this. It's been a long time, and it needs to happen. |
| 01:11:23.33 | Unknown | happened. |
| 01:11:23.89 | Alice Merrill | exactly what it looks like. It looks really modern to me. I like funky, but we are in the 21st century. So things change. I know that it will change the waterfront, the views right there. But, you know, that's not uncommon in the world of progress and whatever, so that happens. But I really think that that is a spot that had water access and it still should have water access. It's too bad that there's such a crunch for the time with the money. Boy, it sure helps when you get extra money. |
| 01:12:08.99 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 01:12:13.50 | Ray Withy | Anyone else? |
| 01:12:20.18 | Douglas Storm | Douglas Storm, 700 Wild Bill Point, Saucyote, California. Is the depiction here, the restaurant is to the north, right? I mean, this is in total isolation. This representation isn't really what we're seeing. Let me just point out, and I want to agree with the previous two speakers, especially the first speaker. The obvious is if this is a fishing pier, and my understanding is that historically that was a fishing pier that we're replacing, I know fishing piers in Southern California, California, 100 yards out, they're really wide, it's really safe to fish. But I was reading a letter in here about this guy that says he brings down his daughter and she loves to go fishing. If I was a parent, I wouldn't bring my child out to this thing. You have a thousand tourists a day coming through. If you build it, they will come. Are we really serious? Is this really for the public fishing, and is it really to improve a view of the waterfront for the tourists, considering you have all the open...it's a joke. I don't see it helping really anything, especially now the concern about this whole FEMA Corp thing, 10 feet, 9 feet, 8 feet, as the previous speaker pointed out, The marina, or excuse me, the restaurant where the parking lot is, if there's a 10-foot storm surge or whatever, Don't worry about this. I would worry about that restaurant heading west across Bridgeway. I mean, it's in isolation. You know, it just doesn't make sense. Last concern is the money. I hate it, I hate it when I have a gun to my head to say that you have to make this decision, because if you don't make the decision, then you can't spend the money that |
| 01:14:25.12 | Unknown | Make sure that you're not going to be able to do it. |
| 01:14:28.80 | Unknown | You can't. |
| 01:14:31.47 | Douglas Storm | that the taxpayers give you. And it seems like there's a real concern with the whole elevation of this thing and how it interrupts the view. It seems totally opposite of low-key for the citizens of Sausalito. This is in Ford, the citizens of Sausalito. I wouldn't go and hang out there. If I was to do it, I'd probably go out to Spinnaker and get away from all the tourists and go out to Spinnaker, where that platform is out there. |
| 01:14:50.72 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:14:59.01 | Thomas Theodores | you |
| 01:15:02.31 | Douglas Storm | Yeah, and it doesn't cost that much to get rid of the old pier. It doesn't cost thousands and thousands of dollars. You can talk to me about that. It's pretty easy. Thank you. |
| 01:15:24.83 | Unknown | or something. |
| 01:15:29.08 | Unknown | Good evening, Mr. Mayor and Council. My name is Chris Chevali. I'm not sure. my thoughts on this. from the perspective in a wheelchair is that the view would be... I have a lot of friends who visit here, stay at the Inn above tides, and the main attraction for Sausalito is the bay and the view. the roll or stroll depending how you do it from the spinnaker down to the old Valhalla. is wonderful the way it is. We've got a clear, unobstructed view of the whole bay. And I believe that the monies where this came from could be much better used by being stewards of the bay. The Bay is what makes Sausalito so special. If Sausalito was in another area without the waterfront, it wouldn't be the same at all. in a manual chair going up. The ramp would be quite difficult for a lot of people And once again, Shorter people, children. the height, no matter what height it would be, would be an impediment for a very amount of money. And as I said, the walkway the way it is now, it is wonderfully obstructed. If you'd like to put a few more benches along the way, And the tides are always very you know, an issue you never know what Mother Nature would do out there. I appreciate the time. the um I just believe the project, the money could be better spent and with all the different in question here. |
| 01:17:21.70 | Unknown | Just having the walkway from Bridgeway the way it is has worked wonderfully for many, many years. Thank you for your time. |
| 01:17:34.34 | Ray Withy | Okay, thank you. Nancy. |
| 01:17:43.02 | Nancy Osborne | Thank you. Nancy Osborne, resident of Kendall Court. I came here just to take notes for a publication. Had no intentions of speaking of this because I've only been here for a couple. |
| 01:17:49.28 | Thomas Theodores | I love Instagram. |
| 01:17:55.23 | Nancy Osborne | The one thing that I guess concerns me the most is what I keep hearing from friends, people. whom I don't know that well, but all the complaints are about how congested everything has become with bikes, with tour buses, with more and more tourists. And if there's any area where that seems to impact, it's right here. They all. impact that. and we're all noticing how you can't get out of town at 4 o'clock in the afternoon. because people are heading through Sausalito as well as using the freeway to get to the bridge. and I don't really think If you were to have a vote on this among the voting residents of Sausalito, that they would really say, oh boy, do we ever need a fishing pier. |
| 01:18:48.37 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 01:18:51.14 | Ray Withy | Okay. Any other comments? Okay. John? |
| 01:19:01.15 | Ray Withy | You walk by there every day. |
| 01:19:03.26 | John Bouldes | I do. My name is John Bouldes. I just wanted to reiterate, when this project first came up, I hang out at the cafe across the street and everybody thought it would be great that the pier would be built. And everybody thought, gee, it's long overdue. And then the story polls went up and everybody kind of went, why are they so high? And there were all kinds of reasons. It just seems to me like there's free money on the table, so it's pretty hard to not take it, but it's almost like a poison pill. There's a great view there already. It's hard for anybody to explain to me how when you put something in front of somebody's eyesight, how that improves the view. |
| 01:19:07.04 | Thomas Theodores | ITERATES. |
| 01:19:44.94 | John Bouldes | Anyway, I don't know. It's the city's property, and I guess they want to improve it. It just seems to me like it's an ill-conceived idea, especially when you have to follow the regulations. It seems to me at the minimal aspect, you put it at the nine-foot level and not try to speculate as well. It may or may not happen in a hundred years. I'm willing to bet none of us will be here then, so there won't be too much liability on any of us, I guess. Anyway, the other issue, I guess, is I wonder how many bikes are going to be parked there next year and the following year, and it's going to form a place for bikes to congregate. The other issue is the ramp down there where you show the one person walking down there. I don't know why there's access to the bottom portion of it. That gets flooded already. So what are you going to do? Have people who need wheelchairs or something drive down to that portion of the sidewalk? A lot of this just doesn't make any sense. Anyway, thanks. |
| 01:20:43.81 | Thomas Theodores | Amen. |
| 01:20:45.30 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 01:20:45.67 | John Bouldes | Thank you. |
| 01:20:54.65 | Scott Diamond | Scott Diamond and it just seems really controversial although I'm questioning some of the things about views because it's up against the building but I do understand when I saw the story polls that it was a problem but the other question is does anybody really want to be eating fish out of this bay anymore? |
| 01:21:18.53 | Ray Withy | Okay, anybody else? |
| 01:21:23.74 | George Orju | Ladies and gentlemen, my name is George Orju. About 1980, I bought the building across the street from that pier, 579-bridge way. It was covered with brown shingle. It was ugly. When we removed the shingles, we saw the Victorian design of the building. |
| 01:21:24.26 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:21:44.66 | George Orju | and I hired Victoriana from San Francisco, spent about $80,000 to restore every piece of Victorian wood that was rotten. And now I see numerous people taking pictures of the building every day. I maintain the posts. They were there before. I always have lightening, but I think it gives us a little a good feeling. This is ugly. I don't know why it should be built there. This one here, all the space that the room takes, plus a room on each side, should be... |
| 01:22:22.97 | Ray Withy | One second, sir. Can you just use the mic? You can stay up there. I'm not used to these. Thank you, Lily. It's awkward. Thank you. |
| 01:22:27.60 | George Orju | I was like, Thank you, Lily. I need to go up there. All the space that the ramp is taking on this fence floor, it should be subtracted from the space up there. That's even more because people are not going to wrap their shoulder against the ramp. So all this space that is being wasted for the ramp should be deducted from that space up there. And it just doesn't look good at all. It's just not part of the atmosphere. If the building next to it, the buildings are closed to it for me, it's just a little bit of sex. |
| 01:22:38.95 | Thomas Theodores | you |
| 01:23:00.97 | George Orju | What if we just did, I don't know about the rules and regulations, but what about if you just make a short one without the run? |
| 01:23:04.13 | Unknown | but I think that's a good question. |
| 01:23:06.58 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:23:08.45 | George Orju | and not the extra one over there. Nobody's going to be fishing anyway, like everybody says. sort of probably be within the budget. And in this particular case, I think that might be more. |
| 01:23:26.29 | Ray Withy | Okay, anybody else? Okay, let's bring it back up here for comment and direction. |
| 01:23:36.40 | Ray Withy | Linda, you want to start? |
| 01:23:42.45 | Thomas Theodores | Well, it's interesting because I've been in support of this peer, but When I look at this design and I look at this what's been shared with us and I see the view blocks and I see the the ramp going down, And I read the Planning Commission's concerns and I agree. I think this is too high. I think it obstructs views. I am concerned, you know, in looking at this, I can see where cyclists that will be filled with tour bikes. And, of course, the vision was a fishing pier. But this is high. It's imposing the current design. And I'm also concerned about the comments from the resident who was in the wheelchair who expressed concerns regarding someone in a manual wheelchair being able to make it up the ramp. I think aesthetically the side ramp is is very imposing. and cuts into the boardwalk view, unencumbered views of the San Francisco Bay skyline. And I also feel very uncomfortable about this feeling of being rushed, about we've got to take this money, we've got to move forward, we've got to do this, got to do this, got to do this. You know, this is the sort of thing that should not be rushed. You know, we're talking about our skyline, we're talking about our beautiful... Southern Boardwalk, Southern Sausalito Boardwalk. I recall the banners up along that side of town. The slogan is, you know, where the views are. You know, from what I'm seeing and what I'm hearing from the public tonight, you know, I have to concur. I have a lot of concerns about this. |
| 01:25:53.20 | Ray Withy | Okay. I'm sorry. |
| 01:25:56.46 | Unknown | We're not hearing the appeal tonight, and we're not actually reviewing the design. agreed that there's room for changes in the design. What I would recommend is that we do send it back to OMED, that we open it up to public Um both comment. And one thing that's frustrating, if you look at all the planning commission meetings and you look at our meetings, our last meeting was 10 to one, 10 to zero in favor of the peer. We just, |
| 01:26:23.31 | Ray Withy | Nice. Thank you. Five. Five. Bye. Five, five nothing. |
| 01:26:27.46 | Unknown | Thank you. Oh, okay. So, I get it. You're a misunderstanding. I'm misunderstanding. |
| 01:26:33.09 | Adam Politzer | What they're saying is 5-0. |
| 01:26:34.76 | Unknown | Oh, no, no, I'm saying the public comment. Oh, okay. There were 10 people that came up in support of the fear, none against, and I get emails that are in support of it, and what I would like to do is send it back, really give people one more. We look at the design, try to get everyone there. I'd like to see it on open town hall. I really would like to see it because I think at each meeting when I look at a planning commission, it seems like there's a different group and different set of comments. And it's like different cities that we're dealing with. So I'd like to kind of get it all together because I think the public's view of this, it is a public peer, is very important. But I think that any particular meeting, we're not getting a good sense of everyone. I wrote down there were seven against, you know, that's seven people. That's important, but we'd like to hear a broader sampling. |
| 01:26:34.78 | Adam Politzer | Oh, no, no, I'm saying the public comment. |
| 01:27:17.19 | Unknown | I agree about getting rushed and if we get to a point where we really as a council and as a city can't make the decision, we may have to pass on it. But I do think that we have another shot at to take a look at it. Um, look at the possibilities of a different design, bring it at our appeal, and then we make our final decision then. |
| 01:27:39.29 | Thomas Theodores | Okay. |
| 01:27:39.77 | Ray Withy | Question, clarification, Mary? So if you go back to the options and Lily and Debbie, So, There has not been The appeal hearing date has not been noticed yet. |
| 01:28:05.23 | Mary Wagner | I don't believe so. |
| 01:28:06.29 | Ray Withy | Okay. All right. So, okay. So that would be, so you would have to, you have X number of days to do that, don't you? What would be that time period? I can't remember how many. From the filing of the appeal? |
| 01:28:14.97 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 01:28:14.98 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:28:15.03 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:28:17.16 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:28:17.18 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:28:20.89 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 01:28:20.91 | Unknown | I'd love for the meeting. To hear the actual appear? To hear the appeal? Well, you already filed it. I'm sorry. |
| 01:28:21.19 | Mary Wagner | the meeting. |
| 01:28:24.89 | Ray Withy | Well, you already filed for the appeal. |
| 01:28:26.48 | Unknown | We did. There's no deadline for the council to actually hear a new appeal back. OK. But to notice for it, there is. |
| 01:28:30.20 | Ray Withy | Okay. |
| 01:28:30.54 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 01:28:34.04 | Ray Withy | Okay. One more minute. |
| 01:28:38.27 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:28:38.29 | Jeffrey Chase | . |
| 01:28:38.56 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:28:39.35 | Ray Withy | You want a minute? I'm going to jump in if you want. |
| 01:28:42.09 | Thomas Theodores | Go ahead. |
| 01:28:42.74 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 01:28:42.76 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. So I think the, I've got sort of like three points to make. The first is that, In the end, we've just got to decide, do we want to build a pier there? That's the essence of the staff report. And basically, If we want to build a peer there, it's gonna have to be some version of that design which is about that high. you So that's the reality. Thank you. So the decision comes down to do we want to build a pier? and the Thank you. related to then so it's going to have to be approximately that height nine or ten feet above the floodplain or whatever it is, BPE, whatever. So, um... With regards to the views, I can appreciate the views, but I think we've got to remember there's views from all kinds of angles in the city of that pier, including the view of coming into town, right? And so would a pier there enhance the views and the aesthetics from many different angles, the one part of, or the small part of, of that walk along bridgeway which would be, the view would be slightly obstructed. So I think as a community we've got to decide that. So my recommendation is, that we should definitely direct the staff to continue with the appeal and that we should hear it. and we should hear it as soon as we can reasonably get it on the calendar to make that decision. um, The two other points I want to quickly make is More generally... There are going to be things coming up in the future where we are faced with rehabilitation, building, construction, on the waterfront. and we're going to have to deal with this issue. And guess what, folks? The sea level's rising, and that means some of the things we have to build to meet code has to rise. and that's just something we've got to deal with as a community. Otherwise, we might as well start saying we'll take stuff down. You know, um, You know, we can't have it both ways, because even by repairing something increasingly, we're going to have to conform to modern codes, especially within the floodplain. And then the final thing is I really do believe that we need to get a grip on a process for what we're going to do when the city is the applicant. Because I don't think that the process is adequate, it works, and it's ambiguous and unclear. If we actually look at this particular ordinance that deals with its incorporated the construction and the floodplains, you know, it's not even contemplated that the city might be the applicant and therefore we have got to change that. |
| 01:31:48.50 | Ray Withy | Well, my comment is that Next time you have the drawings, put it right next to the trident. because the way it looks right now, Of course it looks ugly. It's sticking out there. It's going to block everything. put it next to the trident, you'll see. First of all, you have no vision. You can't see through the trident for the view. out in the bay. So I really think that we should put it in perspective of what it is. You can call it a fishing pier, you can call it a catching pier. It doesn't matter. It's the way it's looked for. It's an eyesore now. We just can't sit and let it do nothing. We take it out. we extend it out. The idea that bicycles will deal with them the way we've dealt with a lot of the areas downtown on where they can and cannot park. And I would like to see this go to the OMED and then have a special meeting with the public to get their import and then move ahead and either build it or not. |
| 01:33:09.22 | Thomas Theodores | Mr. Mayor, I would like to see this go to the Planning Commission with respect to the expertise we have there, the architects, the historical background. Perhaps if the council majority wants it to go to OMIT, perhaps a joint Planning Commission-OMIT meeting. I think it's important for us to listen to the Planning Commission to respect their views. And I would personally like them to weigh in on the height, the ramp, the railing, and the access, and the views with respect to some of the things we learned tonight, for example, the FEMA, The current height is still voluntary. It could be I guess a foot lower, is my understanding. |
| 01:33:55.35 | Thomas Theodores | It would be nine feet. |
| 01:33:56.16 | Thomas Theodores | And also with respect to views, The photo we were given, the rendering from the resident who spoke, thank you very much. Of course, we don't know if this is in scale or what have you, It looks like it to me, and this shows the horizon in perspective, and it does block the view from that perspective. So it's just very concerning to me. |
| 01:34:16.21 | John Bouldes | Thank you. |
| 01:34:16.33 | Unknown | Just like that. |
| 01:34:19.42 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 01:34:19.67 | Ray Withy | Just a clarification, Mary. You could have a public meeting, an OMIT public meeting, if you wanted to uphold the appeal, send it to Planning Commission for three, whatever number of design review criteria, if that's what you wanted to do. You could still do that process. Whether there's enough time for that, I don't know, but you could still follow that process, right? Yes. Okay. So it doesn't have to go directly back. So, you know, I don't know if I need to say anything. I'm kind of on the fence, the railing, so to speak, on this one in general. Because sometimes we have to let go of some things that were a part of the past. Sometimes we hang on to things sometimes that you just got to let go of sometimes. And I'm a big lover of hanging on to things. Believe me, I hang on to too much junk myself and I am a big lover of historic protection. |
| 01:34:36.21 | Thomas Theodores | of time. |
| 01:34:39.33 | Mary Wagner | Yes. |
| 01:35:16.05 | Ray Withy | maybe it's time to say goodbye to a certain extent to this concept. Not just this concept, but just the peer here, period. But that being said, I'd rather hear what the public has to say and make it really well advertised. Send it to OMIT. is send it to OMIC. Make it a public committee, open-hitting. The OMIC committee, by the way, stands for a lot of stuff, but one of the things it does is manage the city's real estate holdings. That committee is kind of in charge of doing that outside of the council meetings. and outreach amongst whatever the MITs, IT and I forget what M means, MLK, MLTAM, right? So anyway, but I think we do that. Let's invite all the people who came to planning commissions. These folks, we have already had their comments on the record. If you want to give your email to the staff so they can make sure you know when that meeting's going to happen. But these are going on the public record. Let's make sure we get as broad a spectrum of public opinion as we can, and then decide what we want to do. Not that I'm trying to kick a can here, I just think Let's have a more informal setting and let people say what they had to say and tweak the design elements. And then you could send, depending on that, you could send it back to the Planning Commission with a design review elements of certain types. But it's obviously a waste of time to send it back with the whole thing wide open because they basically told you, I don't want to comment on the whole thing. But as far as the ones that you mentioned, that those are the ones I had on my list of things to maybe send it to the Planning Commission for review. |
| 01:36:51.85 | Thomas Theodores | Yeah, just for the record, I think sending it back, using OMID to do the public review at this stage of the game is probably the right thing to do. And also if the Planning Commission was weighing on some design elements. But in the end, again, it's about do we want a peer? |
| 01:36:54.73 | Ray Withy | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 01:37:09.30 | Thomas Theodores | And if we want a peer, I agree with the Vice Mayor completely. I might have a personal opinion, but it's far more important as to what the majority of the residents want. I'm hearing... Most people say even before the ability of grant money to become available, they wanted a peer restored there. the looks. |
| 01:37:32.43 | Thomas Theodores | And Mr. Mayor, I have a comment. Yeah, I think absolutely there is a census of, I think, wanting a peer and I think it just comes down to I don't think anybody realized it was going to be that high. and have that much of an impact on the view and the skyline there. And I think that's issue. here is that it's just so imposing the way it is. |
| 01:37:58.42 | Ray Withy | I will say, and I agree with you there, but I will say that I bet there's a high likelihood if you go to other waterfront communities, when you touch that sewer pipe, you're going to have to put rails along the holes, stretch the saucy to the waterfront. to comply with ADA requirements. And that's not a bad thing. But I bet, and that's why it's on a look at San Francisco. Every piece of the waterfront that's been touched now has a railing on it. So good or bad, whatever your point of view might be on that, that's just the way the world has changed. So my bet is once we touch that sewer pipe, that's going to be the issue. But what height that is and whether it's at datum, whatever height, I can't speak to that. But my guess is that we're going to be faced with this issue down in a couple of years when we have to replace that whole sewer pipe. But that's neither to say that's neither here nor there as far as this goes. |
| 01:38:24.56 | Unknown | Good or bad, whatever your point of view might be. |
| 01:38:26.03 | Thomas Theodores | You got that? |
| 01:38:37.65 | George Orju | Yeah. |
| 01:38:37.98 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:38:53.23 | Ray Withy | I think improving the access down to that lower part is actually a good thing. I know it's going to be slippery at times, but it's sort of a buyer beware in a lot of circumstances in these things. But I think the process should be go to the OMIT, have it, let's see what the comments that flow out of that, and then bring it back here, and you can, with the appeal, whatever we need for the, to uphold or deny the appeal, and then go from there. |
| 01:39:19.08 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 01:39:19.10 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 01:39:19.22 | Ray Withy | Okay. All right, so we have it. Go ahead. |
| 01:39:23.03 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 01:39:23.13 | Unknown | Bye. |
| 01:39:23.15 | Ray Withy | THE END OF |
| 01:39:23.23 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:39:23.49 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 01:39:23.54 | Unknown | you |
| 01:39:23.59 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 01:39:24.11 | Ray Withy | No. |
| 01:39:26.88 | Thomas Theodores | Do you need a motion on the floor? |
| 01:39:28.48 | Ray Withy | Yes. |
| 01:39:28.53 | Thomas Theodores | Yeah. |
| 01:39:29.75 | Ray Withy | So the motion I guess we're talking about is bring it back to OMIP. And Omit would... then probably recommend a special meeting |
| 01:39:39.16 | Ray Withy | But you're telling OMIT what to do. You're telling OMIT to have a special public meeting, and it'd be an OMIT public meeting, which there all are, but this one would be much more special about this one topic. |
| 01:39:40.84 | Ray Withy | Thank you. Thank you. you know. |
| 01:39:43.13 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 01:39:46.77 | Thomas Theodores | But this wouldn't be advertising. Yes. And do we need the component in the motion to pursue the appeal and bring it up to the council? Yes. |
| 01:40:00.97 | Mary Wagner | I mean, you're directing staff not to withdraw it, to proceed forward. |
| 01:40:04.00 | Thomas Theodores | And Mr. Mayor, if I could add an addendum to that motion, which would be that the OMIT meeting occurs in the evening so that folks can attend. And another amendment would be that after the OMIT session that it goes to Planning Commission for them to weigh in. |
| 01:40:13.67 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. Yeah, that's fine. |
| 01:40:26.24 | Ray Withy | No. No, I, no. You don't have to do that if you decide to deny the appeal. Then it just goes away. It goes away. |
| 01:40:28.66 | Ray Withy | No. |
| 01:40:29.18 | Unknown | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 01:40:32.25 | Ray Withy | Exactly. |
| 01:40:33.77 | Thomas Theodores | Okay, but just because we were talking about how confusing the current process is when it's city-owned, I just want to make sure that whatever is the outcome of them, it does go to Planning Commission. I would like them to weigh in on that outcome. |
| 01:40:46.68 | Ray Withy | You know, I guess my, you have to, in order for it to go to Planning Commission, you have to make a decision on the appeal. So we can make that decision when we make the decision on the appeal. Does that make sense to you? |
| 01:40:58.66 | Thomas Theodores | Okay, so in other words, what you're saying is it goes to OMIT and then we come back and it denies the appeal and at that point we can specify process in terms of going back to OMIT? |
| 01:41:06.66 | Ray Withy | No, if you deny the appeal, then it goes away completely. |
| 01:41:09.40 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. Mr. Mayor. |
| 01:41:10.04 | Mary Wagner | May I? |
| 01:41:10.58 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 01:41:10.59 | Mary Wagner | Yeah, go ahead, please. So I believe what I'm hearing consensus on your motion is that it's going to OMED and OMED's going to have a special public |
| 01:41:10.71 | Ray Withy | Yeah, go ahead, please. |
| 01:41:21.53 | Mary Wagner | a special meeting of the OMIC committee at night or a time that's convenient for the majority of the public to attend, that you're directing staff to not withdraw the appeal, so we will continue to bring that forward to you. |
| 01:41:28.87 | Unknown | that you're not going to do. |
| 01:41:34.25 | Mary Wagner | Then at the Council hearing on the appeal, you have a number of options in front of you, one of which includes what Vice Mayor Leone just outlined, which is directing the Planning Commission to review certain design elements. Obviously, the staffs raised the timing element of that, but that is one of the options that's going to be on the table for you at that point. |
| 01:41:53.35 | Ray Withy | Okay. Can I just say one thing, and I forget who brought this up, as far as having the gun to your head kind of thing, that's always the way it is with this grant money, unless you have a plan sitting on the shelf ready to go. And we have said no to some of this money. I think some stair money we said no to because we weren't in decision of what to do. We didn't have all our ducks in a row, and we didn't have public consensus of what to do. So we have turned aside some grant money in the past, so it's not unreasonable. But the grant money always has that down to your head, unfortunately. And we're not built to have 400 plans on the shelf waiting for grant money. That's not where we are from a budget process here yet, someday. |
| 01:42:03.73 | Thomas Theodores | on the shelf, |
| 01:42:11.46 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 01:42:24.03 | Unknown | your head. |
| 01:42:36.71 | Thomas Theodores | Oh, I just have a comment that my, I am reluctant to support this motion because part of my assumption in voting for it would be that the design would go back to the Planning Commission, and I understand that we're supposed to be voting on that later on, but I'm just concerned about that. |
| 01:42:59.69 | Ray Withy | Okay. Who made the motion? |
| 01:43:02.96 | Thomas Theodores | you |
| 01:43:03.03 | Ray Withy | Right? You can make the motion that if it comes, you can amend the motion that if it comes back to Council and you uphold the appeal that you send it back to Planning Commission for X, Y, and, you know. But that gets a little complicated because you're not, oh, because we're not voting on the appeal. You can't do that. Yeah, I want to caution the Council not to make any |
| 01:43:03.13 | Thomas Theodores | Right? |
| 01:43:12.52 | Mary Wagner | I guess we'll come. |
| 01:43:13.27 | Unknown | You know? |
| 01:43:15.25 | Mary Wagner | I want to caution the council not to make any predeterminations on what you're going to do with the appeal to people. |
| 01:43:18.51 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 01:43:19.27 | Ray Withy | you |
| 01:43:19.33 | Ray Withy | on what you're going to do All right, so do we have this hand raised motion? Do we have it? |
| 01:43:26.69 | Ray Withy | Yes, she has her. |
| 01:43:28.02 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:43:28.29 | Ray Withy | you |
| 01:43:28.56 | Unknown | you |
| 01:43:28.61 | Ray Withy | Okay. |
| 01:43:29.09 | Thomas Theodores | And Mr. Mayor, could I clarify who sits on OMIT right now? The OMIT committee? |
| 01:43:34.81 | Unknown | The mayor and my mayor. |
| 01:43:36.46 | Thomas Theodores | Okay, so we've got two people. |
| 01:43:38.55 | Ray Withy | Okay, second. |
| 01:43:43.40 | Unknown | Second. |
| 01:43:44.27 | Ray Withy | Okay, all in favor? Aye. Aye. Opposed? |
| 01:43:47.09 | Unknown | No. |
| 01:43:47.35 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 01:43:51.01 | Unknown | Thank you. Mr. Mayor, if I may, I'm just going to put a piece of paper at the front here. If you're not on my email list about this, add your name and you'll get an email about when the OMIC committee meeting is. |
| 01:44:00.32 | Unknown | Can I make a follow-on question? What I've heard from people all along is when the original pier was going to be the height of the sidewalk, overwhelmingly supported. At three and a half feet, it was over... |
| 01:44:08.47 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 01:44:08.52 | Ray Withy | overwhelming. |
| 01:44:12.62 | Unknown | pretty strongly against. At two feet, we don't know. And one thing is that this, and I think height is really designed secondary, but height is the main thing. The current story polls, I think, are at 3 1⁄2 feet. I think it would be really helpful to move them down to what they would be. And then on some of these renderings that we see at the public hearing that we get an accurate feel for that. So I'd request that. |
| 01:44:33.48 | Mary Wagner | So I'd request it. Mr. Mayor and Council Member Theodores, I apologize for interrupting, but if I may, Thank you. The appeal is on the decision at 3 1⁄2 feet, so we need to leave them there because that's what the council's considering. |
| 01:44:49.38 | Ray Withy | actually go back and mark it at one foot increments, at different increments of what the height would be for the other proportion. They are marked right now at one foot increments. |
| 01:44:54.83 | Thomas Theodores | They're marked right now. Okay. |
| 01:44:56.26 | Thomas Theodores | Sure. |
| 01:44:57.43 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 01:44:57.44 | Ray Withy | Thank you. All right. |
| 01:44:58.96 | Ray Withy | Okay. |
| 01:44:59.22 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 01:44:59.37 | Thomas Theodores | And Mr. Mayor, could we take a break? |
| 01:45:01.41 | Ray Withy | Jonathan's scheduled to leave at 9, so I'd like to jam in as much as I can before he does. So I apologize. |
| 01:45:02.49 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 01:45:05.73 | Ray Withy | as much as I can before he does. |
| 01:45:08.45 | Thomas Theodores | Unfortunately, I have to run out VBAC. Okay. |
| 01:45:10.39 | Ray Withy | Okay. Well, if you have to, okay. Next item here we have is the update, analysis, and evaluation of the marineship specific plans. |
| 01:45:27.58 | Ray Withy | They're like, |
| 01:45:32.32 | Unknown | Tonight I'll be providing a status update on the marine ship project. |
| 01:45:39.50 | Unknown | In September of this year, the Marinship Specific Plan Committee was appointed. In October, they had their first committee meeting, and subsequently they interviewed consultants for the project. They recommended the Planning Center DC&E as the consultant for this project. And in October, the council authorized the contract with that consultant team. On November 4th, the steering committee had a kickoff meeting with staff and the consultants The meeting was webcast live and approximately 10 members of the public were in attendance. The committee elected Robin Petrovich as the chair and the vice chair as Mike Kelly. The committee gave brief individual introductions for as far as their goals for the project. And the committee decided to hold a walking tour instead of a previously proposed driving tour of the Marin ship. That was one of the tasks of the consultant was to have a tour of the Marin ship, and so the committee decided to have a walking tour. The committee also discussed the stakeholder interviews and directed the consultant to revisit the scope of work to allow for additional hours for those stakeholder interviews. So the consultant is currently going over the scope to see where they can fit in additional hours. They'll be reviewing that scope with the steering committee at their next meeting, and then it'll come back to the council for review in December. The committee also directed the consultant to interview current city council members, tenants, business owners, and specific user groups such as boaters, bikers, walkers, and beach users as well in those interviews. And we're currently seeking specific recommendations from the committee members as far as particular people they would like to see interviewed. |
| 01:47:47.97 | Unknown | Like I stated, we have a, the next steering committee meeting is on Thursday, December 5th, beginning at 12 p.m. at the Bay Model. So from 12 to 1, we'll be discussing the scope of work, and that will include the additional interview hours and what that does to the staff. overall budget and some of the meetings we had planned. The committee will hopefully be making a recommendation and it will come back to the council on December 10th to review. Then following that discussion, the committee will be going on a walking tour from 1 to 3. And a consultant has prepared a draft map showing where we'll be walking during that tour. That will be on, as soon as that map is finalized, it'll be on the agenda for the public to see where we will be. |
| 01:48:42.17 | Unknown | The committee also decided on regular 2014 meeting dates. They'll be meeting on the fourth Mondays of every month. with the exception of the meeting in May for Memorial Day. They'll be meeting on the 19th instead. And as a reminder to all residents, I send out an email right before the committee is going to have a meeting or like an instance of this evening before the council is going to be discussing this the Marine Ship Project, So if any residents would like to get on the email list, they should send me an email. |
| 01:49:17.05 | Unknown | The next steps are the steering committee meeting in December, the council meeting in December to discuss the scope and then the consultant would be conducting interviews in mid-January. And this was just for information. I'm available for any questions if you have it. |
| 01:49:36.39 | Ray Withy | Quick question. So the public can go on the walking tour. OK. |
| 01:49:40.12 | Unknown | tour. And they can come to the meeting from 12 to 1 at the Bay |
| 01:49:45.77 | Thomas Theodores | I have a quick question about the walking tour too. There's also a walking tour with respect to the history of the Marinship, and I was wondering I know some of the MarinShip Task Force members are familiar with the history and have gone through that walking tour. Has everyone... gone through that? I mean, is there widespread, you know, knowledge about the railings and the ships railings, et cetera, the remnants of what used to be |
| 01:50:16.50 | Unknown | That particular topic of a tour of the Marin ship with regards to history hasn't come up at the steering committee meetings, but I would say that all the committee members are probably very familiar with the history of the Marin ship. |
| 01:50:30.54 | Ray Withy | Any other questions? Thank you. At this time, any questions from the public? |
| 01:50:34.25 | Jeffrey Chase | Thank you. |
| 01:50:34.71 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:50:42.37 | Jeffrey Chase | Hi, I'm Jeff Blizeneff, 211 Bridgeway. I was just wondering about the timing. Since the timing of the walkthrough for the rent |
| 01:50:50.03 | Jeff Wismat | is during the day during work day. And you know, we said that there's going to be a map that shows where the walking through is going to be. Is there, is it possible to get some comments associated with each of those points that could be published to the public so the public can, that those who can't make the walk can't understand what's going to be discussed? |
| 01:51:07.14 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 01:51:07.60 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 01:51:10.80 | Ray Withy | That's a good idea. |
| 01:51:11.95 | Ray Withy | Okay, thank you. |
| 01:51:19.44 | Douglas Storm | Douglas Storm, 700 Waldo Point. One way to solve that, the concern that the gentleman before expressed, haven't videoed, and so then people that can't make it, they would be aware. They'd be able to see what the people are actually seeing. The other thing is, there's kind of a concern that I have, is I've been talking to some of the property owners down there, and it's kind of like, they kind of knew about it, but they were kind of clueless. They didn't know that there was a walk-in tour. They didn't know that this is a critical, critical part of the project. This will be the first time that the consultants, that the people will actually see down. |
| 01:51:30.44 | Thomas Theodores | you |
| 01:52:08.16 | Douglas Storm | And it's actually an excellent opportunity for the property owners to share and to put on their best face or whatever to share what their dreams are, what their plans are, etc., etc. Obviously, it's not a full-scale pitch, but you don't want to catch these people by surprise. And so there are certain key players that I think it would behoove the steering group to really reach out. And I have talked to Lily to provide the emails to those people, but I don't have, even though I've been here just a little while, I don't know everybody that's down there. I've been trying to get a hold of Joe Lemon, but there's kind of like a wall or something. He's in the Midwest. Mr. Jones, where is he? He's back in the mid-range. And he really, I mean this is important. They need to be aware because they have a big part of that. And even the other people, you know, so there needs to be some outreach for the stakeholders there to be given an opportunity. |
| 01:52:52.44 | Ray Withy | He's in the mid-witch. |
| 01:52:53.49 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 01:52:54.62 | Ray Withy | and you. |
| 01:52:54.97 | Thomas Theodores | Thanks. |
| 01:52:55.39 | Ray Withy | Amen. |
| 01:52:55.68 | Thomas Theodores | And he really, |
| 01:52:57.13 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 01:52:59.17 | Thomas Theodores | anywhere because they have a big heart of that. |
| 01:53:01.98 | Unknown | All the, even the other. |
| 01:53:10.97 | Ray Withy | Okay, Doug. Any others? Okay, let's bring it back up for comment. Any comments? No, so it's just. |
| 01:53:19.36 | Ray Withy | And, Doug, we appreciate you coming to these meetings, man, seriously, because you add a perspective that we sometimes lack, just that waterfront perspective that we're not, you know, you're right there, and we appreciate you coming this morning. |
| 01:53:32.98 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 01:53:33.19 | Ray Withy | Maybe that's... |
| 01:53:33.21 | Ray Withy | you especially in that old, what was it, an old, what did you have, a 240Z, the orange one? 280. |
| 01:53:43.59 | Thomas Theodores | Yeah. |
| 01:53:44.15 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 01:53:44.21 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 01:53:44.26 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 01:53:44.33 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 01:53:44.55 | Unknown | No, but it wasn't. |
| 01:53:46.88 | Ray Withy | Mm. |
| 01:53:47.17 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 01:53:51.52 | Unknown | Okay, well, we have that. |
| 01:53:53.92 | Thomas Theodores | Mr. Mayor, I have a comment. I'm wondering, I know the walking tour is scheduled from 1 to 3, but you might actually have more accessibility to the public. I think it gets dark around 5 now. I mean, is it possible to shift it to three to five? I know it's dark at five, but it's not dark before. I'm just, I'm just, well, I don't think it's, I think it gets dark at five, but I'm just saying if you shifted it to, you know, from... from three to five. All right. |
| 01:54:29.51 | Adam Politzer | Mr. Mayor, I can respond to that. It's also based on the availability |
| 01:54:29.68 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 01:54:33.30 | Adam Politzer | of the steering committee members and the consultants and the team the team of staff. to juggle everyone's schedule, that's where we kind of came to those times based on those factors. |
| 01:54:46.18 | Ray Withy | All right, so we get, there's no action on that. So we're gonna take up to a five minute break, okay? |
| 01:54:54.02 | Ray Withy | And I have to leave, so I appreciate the public's forbearance. Thank you. |
| 01:55:16.60 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:55:16.64 | Ray Burgess | Thank you. |
| 01:55:33.73 | Ray Withy | Remedies for complaints. John didn't make it, but I will make an announcement that today we celebrated John Rohrbeck's 35 years in police service and well-deserved. |
| 01:55:49.91 | Unknown | So I gave him the night off. Hehehehe. |
| 01:55:52.63 | Ray Withy | . |
| 01:55:56.16 | Unknown | So good evening. We're here to present an item on the status of tour bus operations in Sausalito. And so it's the end of the season, and it's time to reflect and look at what happened and look towards possible solutions for the issues. So we estimate that, as the report says, there are approximately 48 trips each day during the tourist season by these buses. AS THE REPORT SAYS, THERE ARE APPROXIMATELY 48 TRIPS EACH DAY DURING THE TOURIST SEASON BY THESE BUSES, 24 IN AND 24 OUT. And that sort of depends on the day that you observe, because some days there are more, some days there are less. So the average is 48. The issues that have been brought to our attention from mostly residents in the south end of town are the noise, particularly the noise going back up the hill when they exit the town, as well as the noise from the loudspeakers on board with the drivers giving descriptions of the tour. And then along Bridgeway, we've had complaints of illegal parking and rude behavior from the drivers when asked to move along, parking in the center median, stopping along the route to drop off or pick up passengers, causing traffic problems along the way. So, When we looked at this issue, we discovered that we really do not have the authority to limit the volume of tour buses in Sausalito. The California Public Utility Commission issues their permits. We cannot limit the frequency of their trips. And we also, I think as everybody knows, communicated with San Francisco because they are dealing with the same problem in Alamo Square, or a similar issue. We contacted Gerry Robbins, who is the transportation planning manager at San Francisco Municipal Transportation Agency, and he is the lead person on the Alamo Square issue. So we're staying in contact with him. They are pursuing a legislative a solution to this issue. And that will be to maybe restrict tour buses from those streets in Alamo Square, where the Victorians are. So what are our potential solutions? We could consider legislation to restrict all commercial vehicles similar to the legislation that we have in place. We have Municode 15.26, which restricts buses that carry nine-plus passengers. They're restricted from traveling the west side of Bridgeway, South Street, Second Street. I don't know all of the streets. It cites west of South, second of Bridgeway, and there's one exception that a bus can go up to Altamira on Princess, and that's the only exception west of Bridgeway other than those streets mentioned. So we could consider that kind of legislation. We have made a connection with a person named Andrew Smith. He is the owner of one of the tour bus companies, I think Big Bus Tours. He is also the co-chair of the Tour Bus Operators Association. And he was very amenable to sitting down and working out |
| 01:59:02.12 | Unknown | IT IS. sites west or south, |
| 01:59:46.59 | Unknown | non-legislative solutions. So talking about maybe getting headphones for the passengers of the buses so that a loudspeaker is not necessary to speak to them and describe the beautiful scenery around He is also amenable to discussing exiting Sausalito on the south end. So anything that we suggested, he's amenable to coming to the table as a representative of the tour bus operators and discussing. So we feel that that's the best option to sit down and gain some compliance from the operators rather than go the legislative route, which may be a much lengthier and involved process, both for council and staff, and just see if we can get their compliance. rather than go the legislative route, which may be a much lengthier and involved process, both for council and staff, and just see if we can get their compliance And I think that's it for now. |
| 02:00:38.34 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 02:00:38.49 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 02:00:38.80 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 02:00:38.92 | Unknown | Bye. |
| 02:00:41.14 | Unknown | as much as we have. We haven't done anything else. |
| 02:00:44.40 | Ray Withy | Okay, questions? |
| 02:00:46.24 | Thomas Theodores | Mr. Mayor, I have a question. I know that the Seacliff neighborhood of San Francisco has signage that says, you know, specifically no tour buses beyond this point. And I was wondering if you investigated that neighborhood there as well and the legislation they must have in place. Is that something in that we could possibly? |
| 02:01:09.80 | Unknown | We'll look at everything that we can find, so thank you for that. |
| 02:01:15.92 | Unknown | I have a question on the PUC. And of course, they regulate these buses and such. And is there any possibility, and again, I do agree with you that it's probably, especially at this time of year, |
| 02:01:22.59 | Ray Withy | Yeah. |
| 02:01:22.86 | Alice Merrill | Bye. |
| 02:01:22.98 | Unknown | and it's, |
| 02:01:28.46 | Unknown | We start with the tour bus operators and see what we can do to work with them. And that's the starting point. But also we're discussing what tools we do have if we don't come to agreement. |
| 02:01:33.34 | Ray Burgess | All right. |
| 02:01:38.99 | Unknown | Is there a possibility of going to the PUC in terms of types of buses, sizes of buses, you know, noise and pollution, those kinds of things? So we can't regulate them, but is there any opportunity for us to go to the PUC and have them put restrictions on? |
| 02:01:55.21 | Unknown | Possibly, we'll pursue that. |
| 02:02:00.49 | Thomas Theodores | man. Thank you. |
| 02:02:02.13 | Ray Withy | I think. |
| 02:02:02.47 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. No, I think it's an issue we just need to keep working on. So a legislative approach... What would we need to do if we... ended up with the solution that getting them to exit on the north side of town, come in on the south or exit on the north so they don't have to climb up the hill. is that if that were determined to be a good option, |
| 02:02:31.73 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 02:02:31.74 | Unknown | Mm-hmm. |
| 02:02:32.23 | Thomas Theodores | Do we have to pass something up here to get that done? |
| 02:02:34.56 | Unknown | Yeah, so we would just write an ordinance, and it's not that complex, and we would write an ordinance prohibiting them from exiting on the south end. Mary might be a better person to respond to this, but it wouldn't be like any ordinance. It would go through its readings, public input and the readings, and be adopted. |
| 02:02:54.93 | Mary Wagner | Yeah, I think we would need to look into the types of information we would need to impose restrictions, if any. You know, and a quick look at the sea cliff looks like it was a legislative solution, so that would be a good place for us to start to see what they based that determination on, you know, if there's safety and traffic factors and the kind of information that we would need to gather to support the background that you would need to make those kind of determinations. |
| 02:03:06.08 | Unknown | slate of |
| 02:03:21.79 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 02:03:21.95 | Ray Withy | Thank you. Thank you. I just don't hear any questions from the public. |
| 02:03:28.12 | Thomas Theodores | I have a follow-up question. I'm so sorry, Mr. Mayor, if I may. Go ahead. And just a clarification, 48 bus trips each day, but that's for the three largest bus companies, right? That's not counting all the other bus companies that have. OK, thanks. Just wanted to clarify that for the public. |
| 02:03:31.60 | Ray Withy | Go ahead. |
| 02:03:42.74 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 02:03:42.77 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 02:03:42.85 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 02:03:43.02 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:03:43.07 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:03:43.11 | Unknown | . |
| 02:03:45.28 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:03:47.80 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 02:03:47.81 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 02:03:48.17 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 02:03:48.83 | Unknown | And in terms of especially one particular company or bus that we see is particularly noisy and polluting it seems. Have we measured, I mean, are they within the restrictions that are allowed. I mean, I assume there are certain noise restrictions and pollution restrictions on commercial vehicles that way. |
| 02:04:03.78 | Unknown | No, I should. |
| 02:04:04.23 | Adam Politzer | Thank you. |
| 02:04:04.42 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:04:08.42 | Unknown | Have we tested, do we know whether they might be or might not be? |
| 02:04:08.52 | Unknown | Have we tested that? I think I don't have that information, but between the PUC and CHP, the permits of these buses are issued based on them passing certain tests of emissions, et cetera, safety measures. So I'm sure that at the point of inspection they pass all that. |
| 02:04:33.90 | Ray Withy | Let me clear something. We didn't have this a year ago. two summers ago, I guess we could say now. This happened with three companies. One was San Francisco Sightseeing, The Big Bus, Big B. and city sightseeing. and What had happened was they started competing with each other in advertising, hop on, hop off, and they would come by every half hour. This is the first year that they've done that. and if you add that up the It's basically from 10 to 6, so there's where you add up the 48 trips, counting the others. I feel I want to hear some more and see what kind of legislation can be put in. Uhh... But I think one, feasibility is... is them coming into Sausalito but having to exit down Bridgeway and go around. I think those are the companies that have really created the problems and the reasons that is. is that all these three companies, they're using very old, beat up equipment. They make a lot of noise. I mean, I live on 4th Street, and I can hear the buses going up the hill. up on 2nd Street, I can hear them going. But it's climbing up. They're not making... They're more making noise. talking, telling the people as they come into Sausalito. but it's the buses and the the missions that they're putting out to climb up this hill. Um, Thank you. |
| 02:06:29.98 | Thomas Theodores | Mr. Mayor, are we in comment time or questions? |
| 02:06:30.07 | Ray Withy | Mr. Mayor. Um, We haven't got to. |
| 02:06:36.16 | Thomas Theodores | I have a question for |
| 02:06:37.51 | Ray Withy | Thank you. Go ahead. |
| 02:06:37.70 | Thomas Theodores | Go ahead. The chief. Thank you. So another question I had was I was on Alexander, and I was driving home, and one of these buses was stopped. Dead center in the most treacherous, narrow bend of Alexander meeting South Street. Stopped. Dead stop with five cars behind them, and tourists were up here snapping pictures. Okay, so my question is, Is that a... Is that something we can cite? We can give them a citation? Yes. We can, okay. |
| 02:07:14.69 | Unknown | Yes. |
| 02:07:17.05 | Thomas Theodores | Another question related to that. |
| 02:07:18.15 | Unknown | In that case, just in case anybody is listening, if you do come across that, every bus has a number. And you know it's either big bus or hop on, hop up. They all have their own individual number. So if you can get that or a license plate, it's really helpful for us because we have a continuing dialogue with the company owners. Today I saw one doing exactly that on Bridgeway. I stopped, I contacted the driver. So every time we do that, it allows us to send a message to the owners. This is a very important part of the project. This is a very important part of the project. This is a very important part of the project. This is a very important part of the project. This is a very important part of the project. This is a very important part of the project. This is a very important part of the project. This is a very important part of the project. This is a very important part of the project. This is a very important part of the project. This is a very important part of the project. This is a very important part of the project. This is a very important part of the project. This is a very important part of the project. This is a very important part of the project. This is a very important part of the project. This is a very important part of the project. This is a very important part of the project. This is a very important part of the project. This is a very important part of the project. This is a very important part of the project. This is a very important part of the project. This is a very important part of the project. This is a very important part of the project. This is a very important part of the project. This is a very important part of the project. This is a very important part of the project. This is a very important part of the project. This is I stopped, I contacted the driver. So every time we do that, it allows us to send a message to the owners, this is a real problem. And so I would just encourage everybody to let us know. Give us the license plate number, the date and time, or the number of the bus and the company, and we can figure out who was driving. |
| 02:08:02.56 | Thomas Theodores | Thanks, Chief. And as a follow-up question, what is the fine amount? What do we fine them for? Is that something we would legislate as well? |
| 02:08:11.79 | Unknown | Yes, well, I don't know what the fine is for impeding traffic, but for any legislation that we create, yes, we would create a fine behind that. Bump it. |
| 02:08:22.73 | Thomas Theodores | bump it up. And also the other thing I experienced were it was this bus and it was going, it slowed down on Bridgeway and it was literally going at a snail. I mean I couldn't even register my speedometer. It was, and it was so again the tourists could snap their pictures. Is |
| 02:08:45.00 | Unknown | Snap. Thank you. So it's important behavior from stopping. So we've made progress. But that means that they're trying not to stop, but they're still trying to accomplish the same thing. So you just call that in as well. Every piece of information that we get helps us address the problem. |
| 02:08:58.20 | Nancy Osborne | Thank you. |
| 02:08:58.25 | Thomas Theodores | you |
| 02:08:58.33 | Ray Withy | Yeah. |
| 02:08:58.55 | Thomas Theodores | And, and, and. |
| 02:08:59.04 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:08:59.06 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 02:09:04.34 | Ray Withy | Yeah, the most important part is |
| 02:09:04.69 | Unknown | Thank you, Chief. |
| 02:09:05.44 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 02:09:07.70 | Ray Withy | Like any incident, always get the number plate. with some identification. We have some ammunition going in when we start talking to these groups in March for the next year. Any comments? you Public comment? |
| 02:09:32.30 | Jeff Wismat | I didn't know this was on the agenda tonight. My name is Jeff Wismat. I'm at 211 Bridgeway, and I can definitely hear the three major companies of Big Buses in my place. I have some neighbors that are up the hill that, within a day of Big Bus hitting the circuit, were complaining to think. Can you hear that? Thank you. It's really outrageous, particularly going uphill, that's true, but even coming downhill, they're pretty noisy. I was wondering if the city has thought about coordinating with the park organization, |
| 02:10:06.59 | Ray Withy | Cavallo. |
| 02:10:07.37 | Jeff Wismat | Fort Baker, Caballo, that area, because they're also encountering similar issues. We've been walking, my wife took a walk and she counted big bus going down there every 10 minutes with two people, or sometimes no people, on the bus. |
| 02:10:13.95 | Thomas Theodores | Mm-hmm. |
| 02:10:21.07 | Ray Burgess | Thank you. |
| 02:10:23.84 | Jeff Wismat | Destroying the ambiance in the area because of their great big engines and having to go uphill and downhill. So that would be one thing that might also be helpful. There's a safety issue from my perspective. Coming down to Alexander, okay, it's great that, you know, if you can legislate going out this outbound town, that would be terrific because it eliminates the uphill noise. Thank you. |
| 02:10:45.27 | Unknown | you |
| 02:10:45.54 | Jeff Wismat | But coming down Alexander, those buses are huge. And we've got families coming down with five-year-olds on little bitty bikes coming down a very, very narrow, constrained road that's dangerous enough for those spandex warriors and the hikers, let alone little kids on bikes or bikes with a tandem behind them or the trailer or whatever. It's really high risk. And I don't know what kind of risk the city absorbs as that, but if somebody gets hit and hurt, I don't know if that's a city liability or not, but it's certainly unfortunate if they do. I want to also reinforce what the officer was saying. Buses stop at the corner, not even in the middle of the street. They stop at the corner of Richardson and Bridgeway. And they'll do that for two minutes. |
| 02:11:33.02 | Thomas Theodores | And they'll do that. |
| 02:11:33.60 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:11:35.62 | Jeff Wismat | and traffic's backing up behind them. I was walking in the ferry the other day, and there were literally 30 cars behind a bus because they were going so slow, and they'd caused such a traffic issue. This has got to do something. It's just as bad as the speeding bicycle is coming down Alexander. This is even worse if you ask me. So, thank you. |
| 02:11:58.42 | Ray Withy | Thank you. Allison. |
| 02:12:05.81 | Ray Withy | Well, you're ready for tonight, aren't you, with those boots? |
| 02:12:07.96 | Alice Merrill | It's just one small thing, Alice Merrill. I know that years ago, the Marin Air Quarters used to go along the Great Highway when it was bad traffic on 19th, and now they're not allowed to anymore. So maybe there's something about that too, that they figured out how to not let them go down there. Maybe that's another possibility. Thank you. |
| 02:12:35.07 | Ray Withy | Nancy. |
| 02:12:41.25 | Nancy Osborne | Nancy Osborne. I live at the north end of town, so the idea of a line, I think there are five stoplights between Nevada, something like that, four or five between Nevada and the turnoff to get onto the freeway or to go straight ahead on the freeway. And that straight ahead on the freeway, because of this use that I mentioned before of the 280 bridge, is now stopped up at about four o'clock in the afternoon. You can't get out of Sausalito easily either way. tour buses at the south end, and there are two schools now coming out of Martin Luther King. It's not an ideal solution. to me, ideally, and I guess you can't make it happen, would be to make the buses stay on the freeway all the way to Marin City and run shuttles from the mall. That would be one way to do it. Another way to stop some buses is to not give them any parking downtown, and then they'd have to bypass and go to Marin City and get shuttles to get the people back to town. I wasn't aware until I talked to a friend about these open buses. Do they actually come and park, or is that totally a moving thing? And they're talking all the time, but they don't really stop to park here. Therefore, they add nothing as far as a commercial value to the city. I'm not sure how that works. But these are just my ideas, is keep them on the freeway as long as possible. |
| 02:14:14.42 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 02:14:20.26 | Ray Withy | Okay. Okay, bring it back up here, any comment? No. |
| 02:14:27.44 | Thomas Theodores | Well, full disclosure, I live on South Street, which is, of course, the main drag. And so I've lived there for 18 years, and I can tell you this tour bus traffic congestion is just intolerable. They're a safety hazard for residents. They're a safety hazard for the cyclists coming downhill. |
| 02:14:27.72 | Ray Withy | Yes, I know. |
| 02:14:50.51 | Thomas Theodores | in that treacherous intersection. In the last five years, the south end of town with the two little lane And I think that's a good question. ten-fold plus increase in cyclist traffic with predictions of 10% increase every year, according to a staff report I saw a year or so ago. Add this now to the tour bus traffic. What I'm really concerned about is that, you know, this is how the cyclist congestion started. You know, it started like this, and, oh, we were going to talk to the bicycle companies. The next thing we know, we've got new cyclist companies being created and now we've got you know thousands of tour bikes coming in and you know I can't tell you the the sad accidents that I've seen in front of my house, you know, when a child, you know, who you know, they're not prepared to encounter So now you've got the tour buses Danger to cyclists, dangers to pedestrians, many times they will cross the street. There are no crosswalks there, but they will. And now we've got the impact on air quality is just devastating. The noise pollution, it really does bear, it tells me that we need legislation. I've seen what other communities have done, for example, Seacliff, and they have been able to legislate a solution, not only for the safety of residents, but for the safety of our guests as well. And like I mentioned earlier, the situation where they're going so slow at a snail's pace. Again, cyclists are whizzing around that corner downhill and boom, there's a big bus that's just stopped in the center of the road. I mean, it's just a tragedy waiting to happen. We need to take action on this. I'm so glad it's on the agenda, and I'm so glad that we are going to move forward with action. I think we need to take decisive legislative action on this. |
| 02:17:14.14 | Ray Withy | I think we should move cautiously. I think that we should... kind of gather all the information, all the representatives this March to be prepared for the next year. Um... We are the gateway. We're the gateway to Marin. And we have to keep that in mind. We just can't shut the doors. There's a lot of people that rent that live in San Francisco. They're not going down to the peninsula. They're not going to the East Bay. He's coming to Marin. And we have to make sure that we still maintain being bike-friendly. We're working also with the Golden Gate Bridge. And hopefully next year, they've told me, Kerry Witt has informed me that that side road, that road that they have that comes off the bridge that takes you down to Cavallo Point, for the last few years they've been using that for storage of materials for repairing the bridge. All indications seem to be this year here that for the next season that they will open that road. So it allows the bicycles, especially the rentals, to go down into Cavallo Point and then come back up onto Alexander, but at least they're now coming in. on a flat level and not flying down. When you hear, do you understand me there on that? When you come out of Baker Road, |
| 02:18:37.38 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:18:37.58 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 02:18:37.82 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:18:43.08 | Ray Withy | That's a flat level. When you hear all the ambulances like we do, going up. We're just watching him going out of Sausalito. Because why? Because it's happening up on Alexander. And one of the places that it does happen that's very dangerous is is when they made that road that when you come down Alexander, you want to take a right turn to go down to Baker, the momentum of the bikes cannot stop. So when they don't put a signal light on an automobile and take that quick turn, there's where you're getting a lot of the incidents. So hopefully in the future, It's always a work in progress. When I started this seven years ago, we only had 125,000 bikes coming into town. Now we have 320,000. The only thing I can tell you on the plus side is that we have a lot less automobiles because of that. But it's an ongoing balance, and I think I'd like to just go in the direction of managing it and not putting controls in as best as we can. |
| 02:19:52.24 | Unknown | Chief Tejada, thanks for coming, and we appreciated... Thank you. It is getting to be a big issue. It's superseded the bicycles in terms of |
| 02:19:56.31 | Unknown | I'm recording. |
| 02:20:01.37 | Unknown | of the public comments that we receive. Maybe that's the only good thing about it. The And I appreciate the approach. I think we're at a good point in the year that as the winter and the tourist season is down, that we can start working with the bus companies. What I'd like to see, though, is that we pick some dates, maybe in February or March, and we come back, and then we have a proposal of what the bus companies have agreed to, what legislation we may have to pass, and, you know, maybe that we just have something that they can't stop, buses can't stop in certain areas, or whatever combinations of things that we need and going forward and have the council as we, so that we, number one, are ready. |
| 02:20:16.96 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 02:20:42.02 | Unknown | WE HAVE ALL THE INFORMATION OF THE TOOLS THAT ARE AT OUR DISPOSAL, BUT certain things in place, including these agreements or whatever legislation we need to pass. So thanks. |
| 02:20:53.17 | Thomas Theodores | Yeah, I'd just add to that, and by agreeing very much with what's just been said. But also to say, it seems like, Chief, you and your team are on top of this, and you've got a good plan in place for dealing with this. So, you know, I know Captain John Robarger is on top of this and done this, so it's a good job. Thank you. |
| 02:21:15.26 | Thomas Theodores | you |
| 02:21:15.31 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 02:21:15.84 | Thomas Theodores | OK. |
| 02:21:16.68 | Thomas Theodores | Mr. Mayor, I just want to follow up with, again, I know that there is a, you mentioned your preference to manage it as opposed to put controls on it. Respectfully, I disagree. I think this is a situation where we need legislation. I think, frankly, we needed it months ago. And I think it's a dire situation right now. And I also think we need to look at enforcement. So it's not only what the legislation needs to be, but also how we enforce it, the fines, the fees to make this stick, because it's what I've seen out there is intolerable for the environment, for residents, and for tourists. Everyone. It's just, it's really, really bad. |
| 02:22:07.44 | Ray Withy | that. Do you know what the roughly the amount of accidents that were reported at the south end of town so far this year? Approximately, the average is usually six to seven. I don't know what it is now. |
| 02:22:20.72 | Unknown | involving |
| 02:22:22.46 | Ray Withy | involving whether it's a bike, yes, involving a bicycle, or for that matter, a bus. |
| 02:22:29.06 | Unknown | I don't, I will get that to you. |
| 02:22:30.98 | Ray Withy | Okay. |
| 02:22:31.49 | Unknown | you |
| 02:22:33.09 | Ray Withy | Okay. |
| 02:22:33.70 | Thomas Theodores | Mr. Mayor, if I may, I understand you're asking that question to draw some sort of a correlation, but I have to say it's a dangerous, very dangerous situation. I'll do respect the president. It's a dangerous situation. |
| 02:22:47.01 | Ray Withy | It's a dangerous situation out there. Every day you listen to the news, some bicycle is getting hit. Not here. Some bicycles are getting killed. Bicycles are getting killed in the Bay Area because more and more people are using bicycles. All right? So we consider it right now looking and moving ahead, but not all of a sudden with a heavy hammer. Unless we have to. |
| 02:23:16.68 | Ray Withy | Okay. Thank you very much, Chief. |
| 02:23:21.30 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you, Chief, and I hope we have legislative relief quickly for everyone. |
| 02:23:25.94 | Ray Withy | I know, I know. If you had your way, you'd put a gate up there and not let people in after a certain amount. I won't go for that either. All right, next item. |
| 02:23:37.89 | Thomas Theodores | Mr. Mayor, I would not put a gate up. I'm asking for something that would protect the quality of life for residents and safety for pedestrians, cyclists, and tourists. |
| 02:23:49.37 | Ray Withy | Look at the records. Okay, next item. CDD Project Status Report. |
| 02:23:58.99 | Jeff Wismat | What's your decision? |
| 02:24:00.60 | Ray Withy | Can we put this? You want to? Okay. Let's move this to the next meeting, and let's go down to the adoption. Adopt a resolution awarding a professional consultant service agreement to next. Again, assess asset management for initial phase of asset management plan preparedness. |
| 02:24:24.08 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Jonathan Goldman, your Public Works Director and City Engineer. I have a little bit of a schizophrenic presentation this evening, but the staff report that you have before you is a request to award a contract to and authorize the city manager to execute a contract with a consulting services company, NextGen Asset Management, that submitted a proposal in response to an RFP that addresses a priority calendar item. We have, while I certainly respectfully request that you do that, wanted to take a few minutes to give you and perhaps more importantly some of the people at home who don't necessarily know what the words asset management means an opportunity to understand what we're some of the tools that we will be populating and taking advantage of by awarding this contract. And in doing that, I've asked Vivian Housen, who was formerly Vice President with West Yost, an engineering consulting firm that's done a lot of work for the city of Sausalito in the last few years and has been working with the city. |
| 02:24:41.78 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:25:46.65 | Jonathon Goldman | very directly involved in a lot of the wastewater asset management work that we already do, and we actually use NextGen's product for our computerized maintenance management systems work in that enterprise. But I want to introduce Vivian and give her the opportunity to give this presentation. Vincent Yee, who is the president of NextGen Asset Management, couldn't be here this evening. It's actually his firm that we're awarding the contract to. but we're going to take advantage of Vivian Housen's expertise and her knowledge of the systems that we already have and some budget resources available within the Public Works Department to get her help in focusing and managing that work. So if I may, Vivian Housen. When we're paranoid, we're there. We can look at that. Thank you. |
| 02:26:42.94 | Vivian Housen | Thank you. Thank you, Jonathan. Good evening, Mr. Mayor and City Council. And I have been working, as Jonathan mentioned, I have been working with the sewer aspect of NextGen for some time. And I'm very excited to see that the city is moving forward with that program for the entire asset management program. Asset management has been in place for streets for some time, sewers more recently, and overall city assets most recently in many cities. So it's very exciting to see that happening here at the city. So I'd like to give you a brief overview of strategic asset management, which is sometimes known as AM or SAM. and then review some aspects of the next-gen asset management software. And I do have to admit I'm very familiar with the sewer side of that software and have poked around at the rest of the software, but unfortunately, Vincent could not be here. He would be able to give you a much more thorough explanation of the software components, but it does look very good. And also discuss the project deliverables just very briefly that are in the next-gen contract. So to provide an overview, strategic asset management has been in place for some time. As I mentioned, it's really been in use quite a bit for roads. And there's been a lot of talk about asset management I think the first I heard of it was in about 1999. But really in the last five years asset management has blossomed and has been used quite a bit through cities and agencies throughout the United States. It's been used in New Zealand and Australia and some parts of Europe for much longer. Asset management really focuses on level of service that the city wishes to provide to its constituents and minimizing risk but still maintaining that level of service. Level of service is defined from the customer's point of view For example, the customer may not be as interested in whether you're sleeping the sidewalks twice a day, or cleaning the streets, or cleaning your sewers or storm drains, but they do want to know that they can walk down the sidewalk and not trip that they won't have a sewer incident in front of their house. that their city is safe, that their community is safe. Those are the things that we, to evaluate and define level of service because in the end, all of the little things that you would do from the day-to-day perspective and staff would do from a day-to-day perspective. Those are all very, very important. But in the end, we need to make sure that everything that is done is done in order to meet a level of service objective. And then risk is defined as likelihood and consequence of failure. And this is extremely important because as humans we are very, very inclined to focus on consequence of failure. We don't want people to fall. We don't want houses to flood. We don't want these things to happen. And so sometimes when you have an asset, It is our nature to replace that asset to avoid the consequence, and many times, It's not our nature to think what is the likelihood of that occurrence to happen. And as a result, without strategic asset management, it is easy to fall into a little bit of a trap of fixing things before it's time because we are so influenced by the consequence of failure. Strategic asset management provides relief to a city or agency in terms of funding and implementation schedule, and it's especially effective when assets have exceeded their useful life. And that is the case in the city. That's the case everywhere. Assets have been put in place, have been maintained as well as they can be, but have reached their useful life, and there just isn't enough money to fund all of the replacements that are needed based on the life cycle that anticipated useful life of that asset. So what asset management does is it takes the replacement cycle, which would typically follow the installation cycle, which generally looks like the wavy graph up there. Things are never installed on a constant line, so they're never replaced on a constant line. If you replace assets, |
| 02:30:58.33 | Unknown | like, |
| 02:31:07.98 | Vivian Housen | At the age when they're supposed to fail, you would be replacing up and down, up and down. It's very, very hard to manage your funding. to manage your planning in that way. So what strategic asset management, and this is called a Nessie curve in asset management because it looks like Loch Ness. with strategic asset management, by deferring these replacements even after the useful life with confidence because you've done the analytical work behind it an agency can flatten out that curve and so can defer some of the work that you would normally do in the humps, use them to fill in the gaps, and eventually flatten out planning and spending. It takes time, but with systematic asset management, that can be achieved. Once you get on that curve, then if you were placed on the normal cycle, you'll always stay on the curve. |
| 02:32:06.39 | Vivian Housen | Strategic asset management supports the 10 attributes of effective utility management. This is a concept that was established by the Environmental Protection Agency some time ago and has been adopted by all of the underground utility organizations, the main organizations, really 10 elements ranging from project quality through employee development, through financial stability, and your customer and stakeholder support It's a very, comprehensive program and the objective of the ten attributes of effective utility management is to make sure that an agency focuses on each of these ten elements and strives to achieve success in each of the ten elements because if some of the elements are missing, even though you think you did a great job at managing your agency, you will have some gaps, and those gaps will eventually take over and cause problems. So asset management supports all of these through funding, through operational optimization and through planning of your infrastructure. |
| 02:33:15.59 | Vivian Housen | So the customer, as I mentioned before, defines the acceptable level of service. These are some very common levels of service. based on your class of assets. Your buildings, your lights, your sidewalks, your streets, your sewers, your storm, all have different levels of service. And so those levels of service, establishing the level of service is really the most important part of asset management, and they have to be considered unique to each class. |
| 02:33:47.87 | Vivian Housen | The city defines how to provide the service, so that's the part the customer may not want to see, may not care about, may not use to define level of service. For example, these are some examples that are very typical in, for underground utilities, sewer and stormwater. to provide environmental protection as a level of service, The city would strive to provide sufficient capacity. Reliability usually relates to ongoing maintenance. Cost effectiveness is where strategic asset management comes in. Cost effectiveness is not keeping the cost the lowest possible. Cost effectiveness is, is, is, uh, Developing a plan that allows you to fix things only when they need to be but when they need to be so they don't fail, they don't become emergencies. You don't have to redo work. And that way, over the long term, you provide the most cost savings to your constituents for the work that you have to do to maintain the city. This is a concept that was hammered into my head back in the late 80s when I started Quark. I worked for an oil company and they spent first, when you were there, the first five years were really spent training you to become a high performance team member and it was just, Thank you. |
| 02:35:06.56 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 02:35:06.66 | Vivian Housen | a ritual. |
| 02:35:06.90 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 02:35:08.30 | Vivian Housen | This is one thing, I only remembered a few things. But this is one of them, and if you look on this graph, What you do is across the side. So the right things are at the top, the wrong things are at the bottom. And how you do it is across the bottom. So the right things are on the right, |
| 02:35:21.78 | Alice Merrill | I'm not sure. |
| 02:35:25.12 | Vivian Housen | The right way is on the right and the wrong way is on the left. What we try to strive to do is to be in that upper right hand corner, doing right things right. In a typical organization, About 20% of what you would do are in the right things right square. typical human nature. About 80% of what you do are probably in the wrong. things right or the right things wrong. Hopefully nothing you do is in the wrong thing wrong. quadrant, but actually I had a discussion with A colleague today has a long, long discussion about this chart. I just brought it up to show him. what I was going to be discussing tonight, and we got into this huge discussion. And his feeling was that if you're in this lower left-hand corner, maybe |
| 02:36:15.00 | Unknown | feeling like Thank you. |
| 02:36:19.12 | Vivian Housen | You're incompetent and you can't do the wrong things at all. So you don't get into, so maybe it's not so bad that you're in that quadrant. So he's an optimist. He's always an optimist. |
| 02:36:21.96 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. You're in. 200. |
| 02:36:27.97 | Vivian Housen | But you do want to strive for that upper right-hand quadrant to do right things right. And what effective asset management does is in terms of managing your infrastructure, It gets you up into that right-hand quadrant because you're always checking to make sure Activities are aligned with your level of service objectives, so that's doing the right things. It's easy to veer from that, but if you keep checking yourself, you'll be doing the right things. And then you're doing it at the right time, so you're doing the right things the right way. And with consistent strategic asset management, you can get yourself up into that upper quadrant, and that ends up saving money. So this is probably a chart if anyone's ever come and talked about asset management you've seen. It's very, very common. Asset, the risk is measured not by consequence only which is on the bottom, which is really the natural inclination, but also includes a component of likelihood. And what we want to do again is to get into the upper right-hand quadrant of that All right. so that we're always spending our effort, our money fixing the highest risk items. And when items are down in the yellow and the orange, even though we know that work has to be done, things are breaking, we need to do repairs, we have confidence to say, I'm not going to do it. And I know if I don't do it, I'm not increasing risk to the city. And through the process of asset management, that gets easier and easier to stay in the upper right-hand quadrant and really feel comfortable about not doing the yellow. In the beginning, it's hard to leave the yellow things alone. |
| 02:38:07.06 | Vivian Housen | So through ongoing asset management, the information that comes through your work should go into some kind of a maintenance management system. In this case, it would be next gen. And it's used to evaluate risk over and over and over again as you get more condition information, as people from the public call in, you get more data about an asset, can feed it in here and say, okay, that member of the public complained about this. Does that make this a critical asset or is it still in the yellow? And if it's still in the yellow, we'll go back and explain to them why this creates less risk than other things that the city has to address. |
| 02:38:45.80 | Vivian Housen | So the basic components of the NextGen database are an input that will develop level service objectives or confirm them for the city. and then put in the asset data that's available. The more we can find, the better. We've seen quite a bit of it through the process of planning for this work. will develop likelihood and consequence of failure metrics and scores, and those are unique to each asset class. Look at – compile asset replacement costs. Hopefully we can get most of that from your historical replacement costs, but there are a lot of other examples throughout Bruin County. Do physical assessments if it's possible to do within a timeframe and at a reasonable cost. The NextGen database assigns numerical risk. and also will generate with some human intervention a prioritized capital improvement plan and cash flow. And that would serve as an initial CIP, depending on how much actual condition information is available. It would serve as an initial CIP and I would presume that as more information is needed over time, those recommendations would be required. The next-gen software is a visual, it's a graphical software. It mimics GIS. It could also be used in conjunction with GIS. So as more of your assets are included in GIS, it can overlay on top. So you can get your data graphically, your results graphically, and that makes it much easier Come up with solutions. And also through these graphical interfaces, it's easier to communicate the need and the requirements to those who are not as familiar with the assets. The software tracks and manages requests the worked at city staff. need to do to go out and maintain assets. It uses all of that field information. The more the better, again, to help deliver the service levels that are needed for each asset group. Using the software, the city can forecast the asset replacement cost and also trends over the long term to help in planning. |
| 02:41:12.07 | Thomas Theodores | Amen. |
| 02:41:12.70 | Vivian Housen | here. And the deliverables for the project will be to provide the city with a fully populated database for all of its assets. Right now the sewer assets are included in NextGen and the objective is to put all the other assets into the database to provide lifecycle cost projections for each of the asset classes. to develop an initial CIP for each asset class, and next it will provide a summary report and also make a presentation with Council. |
| 02:41:51.24 | Jonathon Goldman | All right, with that, again, just as a reminder, the action that we're respectfully requesting this evening is award of a contract and authorization to the city manager to execute it. If you have questions on the staff report or any of this, Vivian and I are both available to try and answer. |
| 02:42:11.61 | Ray Withy | Any questions? |
| 02:42:12.49 | Thomas Theodores | Mr. Mayor, I do. So the asset management plan here, is it primarily focused on just the sewer infrastructure or are we also looking at and roads and et cetera. |
| 02:42:26.83 | Jonathon Goldman | It's all of our assets, and that really is what I think Council asked of us in the priority calendar. We have the advantage of having already been at least taking some advantage of this approach to managing our wastewater assets, in part because the EPA said that's the standard of care that we expect you to conform to. And we also have the benefit of kind of a different frame of reference, but the pavement management system and the Street Saver software that the Metropolitan Transportation Commission manages for all the jurisdictions in the Bay Area does does some of the same kind of thing for pavements. But our objective is to go way beyond that. We want to look at buildings, we want to look at storm drains. We don't want the narrow pavement only view of streets. We have sidewalks, we have trees, we have lots of assets that |
| 02:42:34.98 | Thomas Theodores | Yes, great. |
| 02:43:17.17 | Ray Withy | Great. Great. |
| 02:43:28.90 | Thomas Theodores | And stairs, you're going to look at the labyrinth of stairs in Sausalito and their condition? Thank you. |
| 02:43:34.46 | Jonathon Goldman | Yes. Okay, great. |
| 02:43:34.50 | Thomas Theodores | Uh, Thank you. Yeah. Okay, great. OK. And a follow-up question, if I may. So the outcome of this, I know I like the matrix where you were showing. you know, how to prioritize this. And I would assume that That's going to be the overlay once you identify the state and the condition of everything. So you're going to go in. Look at all the assets. do kind of a I don't know, meta-analysis or what have you of the state of all these different categories And then it looks like you might come back with a recommendation in terms of low to high. Did I read that right or what? |
| 02:44:19.57 | Jonathon Goldman | . Yes, but to be honest, it's not limited to that. The advantage to, as you, I think, may be more aware than others, the advantage to storing information in this format is that certainly there are standardized means of analysis, reporting, and metrics that we can apply. But can you know be a lot more creative in asking questions of the information and trying to trade off different alternatives you'll see in the next presentation and I think ultimately when when we come back with with deliverables on this that the the prioritization of expenditures across the board is really how we want, how we think the community needs to make decisions. And instead of, and I don't mean to pick on anyone who's here or not here, but instead of the issues that get the most complaints getting the money, it may be that there are much higher priority, much more significant consequences of failure issues that we haven't even been focused on because we don't know the condition or we haven't been paying attention to things like that. the idea is to try to objectively look at the conditions and the risks associated with all of our infrastructure and then help the community make prioritization decisions about what should get spent for what and if the resources aren't available, then the rationale for adding resources becomes really obvious. |
| 02:44:20.30 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 02:44:50.81 | Nancy Osborne | Thank you. |
| 02:46:05.82 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you, Jonathan. Oh, go ahead. |
| 02:46:08.36 | Vivian Housen | Thank you. I'd like to add that this, the project, the next gen work is not going to assess every asset in the city. That would be a gargantuan task. You have so many assets and to assess the condition of all of them in one fell swoop would be a lot of work and a lot of cost. What it'll do is establish the data framework and put in all the condition that's known and within the timeframe of this project, get key information for assets where that information makes a big difference in terms of planning the assets. But the asset management is a continuous process. So information will come in all the time from your residents, from your staff, and that information will continue to be. |
| 02:46:49.44 | Thomas Theodores | Yeah. Uh... Thank you for that perspective. So I have a follow-up question to that. So if we're not going to be looking at you know, at all the different categories. Um, Will we... have as an outcome of this initial framework you mentioned, know what we don't know? Does that make sense? We will know what we don't know. |
| 02:47:13.16 | Vivian Housen | We will know what we don't know. Okay. And we will try to get the critical information that we don't know. So that most critical information is not missing. And then we'll know also what the importance is of what we don't know so you can prioritize the rest of the time. |
| 02:47:28.82 | Thomas Theodores | And will the focus then of those categories that we will be doing in terms of this framework, it will be roads, sewers, stairs? |
| 02:47:39.88 | Vivian Housen | Thank you. |
| 02:47:39.94 | Thomas Theodores | Yes. |
| 02:47:39.96 | Vivian Housen | Every asset will be covered. Okay. Grows, lights, sewers, streets, sidewalks. All of the assets will be covered in terms of asset class. Those are each asset classes. But getting top to bottom condition information on every single sidewalk, every single light, every single tree, that won't be covered here because that would be... |
| 02:47:40.25 | Thomas Theodores | See you next time. Okay? |
| 02:47:54.90 | Thomas Theodores | I see. Okay. But what's really great is that we're going to know what we don't know, which is exactly where we need to be, at least as a starting point. Thank you. |
| 02:48:07.60 | Unknown | Um, Thank you. And I understand this is, you're asking for approval of a contract on a time and material basis up to a certain amount. Is it $50,000? |
| 02:48:17.47 | Jonathon Goldman | It's $50,000, which is the amount that was appropriated for the study in the budget. |
| 02:48:21.91 | Unknown | And I know there were just these questions, but I'm... And that gets us, well, does that include software? What do we get in terms of the, what's the final deliverable on that? And what's likely to be necessary beyond that? |
| 02:48:35.48 | Jonathon Goldman | Well, one of the advantages that NextGen offers is that we already have their software. The Wastewater Enterprise bought it to replace the previous iteration of computerized maintenance management system software that we weren't happy with anymore. We went the same way that Susie and Marin City Sanitary District went and replaced what we had with next-gen asset management software. What we're getting for the $50,000 is the structuring of data structures for assets in addition to sewers and to the extent that there is additional programming or user interface work to take advantage of those data structures, we get some of that. As Vivian said, we also need to make sure that those data structures are populated as accurately as possible. We don't, you know, despite detailed records and things like that that the finance director has and that the city has and spreadsheets and things like that, things like a condition assessment associated with City Hall isn't something we really have. And to some extent that's true of other assets as well. So the process of figuring out what those highest priority data needs are and expending the resources that we're asking you to give next gen as well as additional resources that are, in my opinion, are probably going to be necessary that I'm taking advantage of Vivian Housen's availability for are going to get us as far as we can with the budget that we have available. And then we have a set. This is described as an initial phase of the asset management planning process. We have a set of deliverables that's going to be presented to council. One of the products of that work will be identification of what, as Dr. Pfeiffer pointed out, finding out what we don't know and knowing the consequences of |
| 02:48:37.20 | Unknown | I'm going to be here. |
| 02:50:34.45 | Unknown | Have a great day. |
| 02:50:51.78 | Jonathon Goldman | what we don't know, allows us to figure out what additional budget, what additional resources are necessary to go gather additional information to reduce risk. So it's, as Vivian said, it's an ongoing process and we're taking advantage of a giant step that we've already taken with the Wastewater Enterprise enterprise and other information that we already have and some intelligence and focus in gathering additional information to make sure that the databases are populated. other information that we already have and some intelligence and focus in gathering additional information to make sure that the databases are populated as accurately as we can within the time and the budget resources that we have available right now. |
| 02:51:23.17 | Unknown | I |
| 02:51:29.56 | Ray Withy | Okay, any questions from the public? Bring it back, get a motion. |
| 02:51:37.54 | Thomas Theodores | Well, I'll make a motion for this. Yeah, just a comment as I'm turning to the correct page. This is something that I've certainly been, you know, supporting for a long time. To know what we don't know with respect to our infrastructure, this is key. It's so important, and I'm really excited to see this moving forward. I move to adopt a resolution awarding a professional consulting services agreement to NextGen Asset Management for initial phase of asset management plan preparation. |
| 02:51:53.42 | Unknown | you know, |
| 02:52:16.24 | Thomas Theodores | And I'll second that motion. I just want to add a comment that Thank you. The Finance Committee has worked with staff on the RFP and then the evaluation proposals of work, reviewed this very carefully. And it's a really, a very important, this relational database and what we're putting in it and how we're gonna use it is a very, very important not only tool for analyzing our assets and all the work the staff has to do, but also become a communication tool so that people can understand how it all works together. And then how you know, Paving the street is a bit more complicated than just paving the street. You know, you've got where's the sewer that's underneath the street? What's its life, for example? And so we'll have now in this relational database once, and it's also just the beginning. It's an ongoing thing. And so it's not like it's going to be suddenly magically populated. Everything is going to be there, and we have all the answers. You know, it's going to, we'll be continually using it. so it's going to be suddenly magically populated, everything's going to be there, and we have all the answers, you know, it's going to, we'll be continually using it. So it's an ongoing tool for our normal cyclical planning |
| 02:53:31.72 | Ray Withy | Okay, all in favor? Aye. Opposed? |
| 02:53:32.56 | Thomas Theodores | All in favor? Aye. Opposed? I just, Mr. Mayor, I just want to say I'm so excited because I don't know if the folks listening, you know, to this are, you know, excited about asset management, but this is what a lot of residents have been asking for. with respect to roads and being able to take the next step forward. Having a relational database where we can consolidate, analyze that data, move it around, look at it in different ways, key. I'm so happy. Thank you. |
| 02:54:01.42 | Thomas Theodores | I'd like to thank you because I thought that presentation on what asset management was was really good. |
| 02:54:01.52 | Thomas Theodores | Okay. |
| 02:54:07.07 | Thomas Theodores | Yeah, thank you. |
| 02:54:08.15 | Ray Withy | Thank you. All right, next item, status update on the EPA order, compliance, and sewer capital program. You're on again. |
| 02:54:16.56 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you again, Mr. Mayor. |
| 02:54:18.01 | Ray Withy | who says lightning doesn't strike twice. |
| 02:54:20.37 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. I also have a, it seems to have stopped, a PowerPoint on this. |
| 02:54:24.93 | Ray Withy | Heh heh heh. |
| 02:54:25.58 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 02:54:25.60 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 02:54:25.69 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 02:54:25.79 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 02:54:25.92 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:54:26.36 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. TODAY. Thank you. |
| 02:54:30.97 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you. |
| 02:54:34.68 | Jonathon Goldman | Um, Again, the staff report, this isn't nearly a schizophrenic presentation as the last perhaps, but the staff report attempts to combine a couple of things. We have annual reports to EPA and other regulatory agencies because we're operating under an administrative order. and at the same time, as you are aware, we're engaged in a sewer rate study to look at where we are now with respect to our current rates and the nexus for those current rates. see where we want to go in the future. So at this time in the evening, I thought that I would try to put this issue in the form of a quiz. What document imposes the following requirements on the city's sewer utility? Quote, consistently and substantially reduce the frequency and volume of sewage spills to waters of the United States and complete improvements necessary to eliminate conditions in its collection system that cause or contribute to wastewater spills, bypasses or effluent limit violations from South State of Maryland City Sanitary District's collection system or wastewater treatment plant. A, A New Earth by Eckhart Tolle. B, Pilgrim's Progress by John Bunyan in 1678. C, Findings of Violation and Amended Order for Compliance from US EPA. Or D, Veowulf. And no one really knows when that was written. I'm not going to answer that question tonight. People can email in and we'll see who... Who gets it? Projects completed in the last five years. The Woodward-Tittoyan pipeline replacement project was completed. That's actually a site where we had repetitive overflows and paid what I regard as a reasonably significant fine to the regional board for having had repetitive overflows. We replaced the rental generator that had been, this kind of reminds me of the temporary police station story we talked about earlier today, but replaced a generator that we had been renting for several years with one that we purchased, which I think at this point has probably paid for itself in rental costs avoided at Whiskey Springs, and South Slita Marin City Sanitary District is in the process of designing a permanent rehabilitation or reconstruction of that pump station. It may be combined with what they call the Scotties Pump Station, but that permanent solution to that |
| 02:56:58.15 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 02:56:58.29 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 02:56:58.30 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:57:24.38 | Jonathon Goldman | That project is under-designed. We're under construction on the Spinnaker Anchor project, finally. The Gate 5 Road Pipeline Replacement Project is 65% designed, and if you read some of what was appended to the staff report, we really have gotten to a place with that project where the Clean Water State Revolving Fund is not a viable way for us to build what needs to be built. So in the short term, and I have not pulled the trigger on on awarding a design contract or asking the council to award a design contract, but we're kind of back to trying to do a lower tech, shorter term fix to reduce infiltration, inflow and infiltration there instead of doing the more significant project that I think ultimately needs to happen but that our current sewer rates just won't support. We replaced the Johnson Street main line and lower laterals. I meant to walk down there today, but only made it as far as Princess Street. We're replacing all the lower laterals affected by the Richardson Street reconstruction as part of that project. In the last five years, we've loaned a little over $1,000, granted a little over $200,000, and granted about $35,000 in wastewater repairs or inspections associated with private facilities in conjunction with the Riverwatch settlement that we agreed to some years ago. Projects to be completed in the next five years. We know that we need to remove and replace the six-inch diameter pipeline under Nevada Street between Tomales and Bridgeway in order to better convey our current standard of advance for wet weather flows. We know that we need to do essentially the same thing with a pipeline under Coloma Street and that actually interacts with the Whiskey Springs pump station project that South Sudamaran City Sanitary District is engaged in designing. I touched on the Gate 5 road pipeline replacement project that we know we need to do. We also need to remove and replace the 12-inch diameter pipeline between Terny and Locust streets on Caledonia, and that also needs to be upsized or enlarged to accommodate our hydraulic modeling results on design wet weather flows. Operational improvements we've made in the last five years, I've been would be remiss in not mentioning, and this actually goes to some of the context of the asset management discussion that we just had, Hiring certified wastewater maintenance technicians and giving them the tools necessary to do things like clean and inspect and assess the condition of our own sewers instead of paying somebody to do that, in my opinion, has been a huge benefit to our process. helping us to identify pipelines that even though they may need to be replaced, they're serviceable, and as long as we can keep them clean, we aren't losing significant wastewater. That allows us to divert resources to much higher priority projects. So I give the council and the community a great deal of credit for having added those staff members. We added a vacuum flushing combination vehicle, a VACTOR. We added a continuous mechanical rodder. The two of those together have probably, I would say, tripled or maybe more so increased the productivity of our maintenance crew compared to the equipment that we used to have. |
| 03:01:16.24 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:01:16.34 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 03:01:16.44 | Unknown | No. |
| 03:01:19.38 | Jonathon Goldman | The closed circuit television inspection system with video annotation, again, I believe that the equipment that we have and the people that we have operating it are as good as anyone in this industry in Marin County, and that information is incredibly valuable to our process of figuring out what we need to do and where the most significant risk of significant consequence failures are. |
| 03:01:28.37 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 03:01:46.06 | Jonathon Goldman | We added industry standard gas detection system for worker protection, uh, You know, you may not think about it, but uh, sewers and manholes are actually, they're currently regulated by Occupational Safety and Health Administration. They're potentially life-threatening environment where the atmosphere may be deprived of oxygen or may contain gases that you may not even be able to smell but are capable of killing you. So making sure that our employees are trained and safe and understand the issues that could affect them has also been really important to us. We've increased the training and documentation of our operating procedures for those kinds of things and also significantly increased our cross-training and collaboration with Sausalito Marin City Sanitary District who have similarly qualified workers but with different areas of expertise, a very complementary relationship there. Here's a couple of photographs of our equipment. I was going to describe this as the three-hour pump station tour, but I only had two pump stations on the figure, so I thought that would be silly. For those of you who don't know, Gate 5 pump station is here essentially at the intersection of Coloma and Gate 5 Road, and Whiskey Springs is right here on the other side of Ridgway at Coloma. |
| 03:03:11.19 | John Bouldes | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 03:03:13.87 | Jonathon Goldman | Our challenges, capital projects are more expensive than what we thought they were going to be in 2009. That's been the case with just about everything we've designed and tried to build. We've had the benefit of a good market for contractors, but the issues that we've had to deal with right-of-way, et cetera, et cetera, just flat, more expensive than we thought. Clean Water State Revolving Fund is a cumbersome administrative process requiring right-of-way certifications and other documentation that adds to the cost of the project without producing any local benefit. And I can't in good conscience continue to recommend that we use that funding mechanism under most of the circumstances that we have to deal with. The financial and labor resources we have available are inadequate to deliver the projects that we've identified as priorities. The Hurricane Gulch pipeline replacements on 4th Street, 3rd Street, and Main were bid but can't be awarded due to lack of funding. The Alexander Avenue, 4th Main, and Whiskey Springs pump station projects are right now being managed by South Slater-Marin City Sanitary District with the expectation that the city will reimburse them for the city's share of each project. But at least I don't have to worry about, on a day-to-day basis, about design and managing those projects in the short term. The Bridgeway portion of the Alexander Avenue force main project remains on the city's priorities list. Here are some, this is the challenges tour. Thank you. A portion of the project that indicated had been bid that we don't have the resources to award. These areas are the city's responsibilities for bridgeway sewerage. This line is drawn in the wrong place, but there's actually a line that runs under Coat de Jure and ties in here, which is what we call the beach force main that is the district's responsibility at the moment. |
| 03:05:00.29 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:05:19.85 | Jonathon Goldman | And that's the end of my presentation. I'm available and appreciate that Vivian's having stuck around if there are questions on that. |
| 03:05:27.95 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 03:05:27.96 | Thomas Theodores | Okay, question? Mr. Mayor, I have a question regarding you mentioned the sewer rate study that was being done. So I remember in 2008 we had to implement a sewer rate to accommodate the EPA mandates at the time. And so I know that that was a heavy hit to a lot of residents. One resident mentioned that |
| 03:05:28.86 | Ray Withy | you |
| 03:05:54.27 | Thomas Theodores | In 10 years, their sewer bill for their small townhouse has gone from $361 to over $1,000. We'll be right back. |
| 03:06:02.62 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 03:06:02.67 | Thomas Theodores | and represents 20% of their property tax bill. So my question is, if this sewer rate study comes back with a recommendation for an increase, Will this go to a vote, a ballot vote, so people can can weigh in and weigh the pros and cons and we can really have a public you know, a, a lot of transparency around that in terms of weighing our options. |
| 03:06:31.60 | Jonathon Goldman | Well, the short answer is yes. On the other hand, I think you're asking a different question. The law does not require that we do anything other than comply with the state constitution. And the state constitution and case law on this is that the legal process that we are allowed to employ is a majority protest process. So if the rate study comes back and the council decides to consider increasing the rates, the law requires a majority protest process. And by majority... It does not prohibit the council from doing something above and beyond that to the best of my knowledge. |
| 03:07:14.95 | Thomas Theodores | and by majority. |
| 03:07:21.58 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you, Jonathan. And just to clarify, a majority protest is when the vote on a sewer rate hike does not go to the ballot box, but rather... the residents have a defined period of time in which, is it 51% of all property owners or households have to submit a protest in writing by a certain timeframe? Is that it? And Mary, maybe you can weigh in on this. Yeah. |
| 03:07:50.52 | Adam Politzer | Right. Well, you know, I would just jump in and ask to actually redirect that to a future council agenda item. so that we can come forward and actually go through that process and explain that. either putting Mary on the spot or Jonathan on the spot, we'd be speculating to some degree But at this point, I don't think it's part of what this presentation is about. |
| 03:08:14.28 | Thomas Theodores | Well, I don't mean to put anyone on the spot, but I think that we are all familiar with what a protest vote means. And so I just wanted to ask the question to put a spotlight on the fact that we're talking about EPA mandates and the sewers and the conditions and people, you know, in my opinion, we're in a recession and people are hurting and their sewer rates have gone up substantially since 08. So I would like to see it go to a vote if the study rate came back with an increase. We don't know that yet. |
| 03:08:46.30 | Jonathon Goldman | That's right. And again, even if our consultant recommends a rate increase, it's up to the council to determine what to do with that recommendation. |
| 03:08:57.18 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you, Jonathan. |
| 03:08:58.17 | Ray Withy | Okay, any other questions? All right. Yes, Vivian, go ahead. |
| 03:09:07.96 | Vivian Housen | because Communities are generally, it is a recession, we're coming out of recession and there is a great concern and because of all the regulatory action, wastewater rates have gone up everywhere by significant amount. In this discussion, I've also been in discussions about whether we should go to the vote or not and we're not going to talk about that, but I do want to say it really comes, any discussion like this, I would recommend, we have the discussion, the city has the discussion in the context of level of service. So if the city commits to a certain level of service and then asks the community, are you willing to save this much money? This much money has to be communicated in the context of level of service because if you can't fund the level of service, you can't provide it. There has to be an expectation that we can't fund this, then we accept a lower level of service. And what does that look like for the community? So it's a very, very broad discussion. It's not something that can be put into a flyer that goes out to the constituents to ask for a vote. So I just wanted to, because I'm in the middle of this same discussion in numerous places, this is a very important concept. |
| 03:10:07.57 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:10:20.00 | Ray Withy | Okay. At this time, we have any questions from the public. Thank you. Public comment? No. Bring it back up. It's just informational, is that right? Okay. |
| 03:10:34.53 | Thomas Theodores | And Mr. Mayor, I just have a comment. I want to thank city staff for a thorough presentation. I want to thank our consultant for, you know, covering so much ground. And also just because I think we're going to be learning a lot in terms of our infrastructure, that I do think that full transparency with the public process and putting this on the ballot, if there is a rate increase, is really, really absolutely paramount. |
| 03:11:02.49 | Ray Withy | Okay, called the penalties of leadership. |
| 03:11:09.41 | Ray Withy | That's what it is. Thank you. Okay, next let's go to our city manager report. |
| 03:11:16.23 | Adam Politzer | Just two announcements. Thank you, Vivian. |
| 03:11:17.44 | Ray Withy | Thank you, Vivian. |
| 03:11:18.59 | Adam Politzer | Thank you. Two announcements and reminder to the council. MCCMC has its next meeting on Monday night in San Rafael. So if you haven't RSVP'd to Debbie, please do so. And then we have our strategic planning session on Friday. And I think part of the presentations this evening were also part of kick-starting some of those discussions, letting you know that staff is already working on it, so asset management It's obviously going to be a big part of the discussion. how we generate revenue or use the existing resources to maintain or expand our level of service, as Vivian was alluding to, will also be a big part of that discussion. And I believe that Sherry sent out an email to all the council members asking them a question and come prepared to share their vision. Looking forward. and looking out potentially 15, 20 years. And so we as staff are looking forward to hearing from our Council at the Strategic Planning Retreat. That's the end of my report. Happy to answer any questions. |
| 03:12:31.34 | Ray Withy | Okay. Any questions? Any questions from the public? Okay, with that, future agenda items? |
| 03:12:42.59 | Thomas Theodores | Mr. Mayor, a future agenda item would be the Mount Tam task force that we heard about tonight. The deadline is coming up the first week of January, so it's pretty imperative that we get that on the agenda. Let's see the... State of the stairways, I presume that will be covered in the asset management plan we just voted on. but I did want to raise awareness that I think it might be a bit more urgent than, you know, waiting. We might look at Measure A funds. I know we had that on consent. But in the future, when staff comes back with a work plan, that's something we might be able to apply Measure A funds to is getting a... railing on some of the more popular stairs, such as the Marie to Woodward stairways. |
| 03:13:36.56 | Ray Withy | Okay, anybody else? That's it. Okay, questions? Public questions? Back. Okay, council member committee reports. Matthew. |
| 03:13:49.59 | Unknown | The Fort Baker Task Force has met several times on the proposed changes that the Park Service is contemplating in Fort Baker. We will have a notice public meeting this coming Monday. We're starting to get the public involved. Even though the Park Service at this point hasn't made a decision on what direction it's going to go, we're starting to solicit public input. We have a task force going, so we'll have a meeting on the 25th. And the multi-family zoning task force, the legislative committee and planning committee met on Monday, and we'll also, we've moved that on to, we have one more meeting, we think, and will be done after four meetings. And I think we're noticed to have that on December 9th. Thanks. |
| 03:14:43.69 | Thomas Theodores | Mr. Mayor, the Butte Task Force is looking at having a public kind of forum for feedback on Wednesday, December 4th. It hasn't been confirmed yet, and I really I can't say it's for certain that it's going to happen on that date, but I will say that that was the date we were discussing and that I'm sure city staff will get the word out if and when that happens. Also regarding committee reports, again, I would ask that I be re... that the ARC Commission, as a commission, be removed from the current list of liaisons because it doesn't exist right now. We're moving forward, which is really great. We're going to be soliciting... applications and I think this council has good momentum in terms of revisiting the bylaws for the Arts Commission and moving forward with that, but in the interim, I think that it should come off my list because I... The word Arts Commission has been next to my name for four years, and it just doesn't exist, so it doesn't make sense. Okay, thank you. |
| 03:15:57.94 | Ray Withy | Okay, next. Go ahead, Theo. Thank you. OK, next let's go to appointments to the pack and rec. I want to go over, Debbie, we choose to replace John Lerner and Melissa Mooney. My recommendation is Stan Baer and Sela Seleska. on that. |
| 03:16:30.54 | Unknown | Well, we also have to, I believe we also have incumbents. Well, I. |
| 03:16:34.19 | Ray Withy | Well, I think we can okay them. All right. And I recommend that Cindy Powers and Doreen Gennard continue on Park and Rec. |
| 03:16:46.90 | Unknown | I'm sorry, two recommendations. |
| 03:16:48.75 | Ray Withy | Two recommendations with Stan Baer and Sela Selinska. |
| 03:16:53.97 | Thomas Theodores | Debbie, I have a quick question. Can you refresh my memory? We had other applicants for the park and rec, did we? And I don't have them. No? Hold on. I don't have them in front of me. In my pocket? |
| 03:17:07.74 | Unknown | Thank you. In the packet. |
| 03:17:10.03 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 03:17:10.15 | Thomas Theodores | Yeah. |
| 03:17:10.17 | Thomas Theodores | Yeah. |
| 03:17:10.22 | Thomas Theodores | Bye. |
| 03:17:10.28 | Thomas Theodores | Yeah. |
| 03:17:10.66 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. Okay, I missed it. Good. Amen. |
| 03:17:20.27 | Thomas Theodores | There it is. I lost it in all my paperwork. Thank you. Okay. |
| 03:17:20.41 | Thomas Theodores | Yeah. |
| 03:17:28.88 | Thomas Theodores | Um... |
| 03:17:32.56 | Unknown | I can deliver those final nominations for those. I'll send out a. Other nominations, do we have any out there? |
| 03:17:39.88 | Thomas Theodores | Yes, I would like to nominate Richard Yang and Sila Seleska. |
| 03:17:39.90 | Unknown | Yes. |
| 03:17:48.47 | Thomas Theodores | for the two slots, and I would like to, of course, continue our incumbents, Cindy Powers and Doreen Grimaud. |
| 03:18:04.30 | Ray Withy | like Debbie and |
| 03:18:05.47 | Unknown | you Thank you. |
| 03:18:07.03 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 03:18:07.07 | Unknown | you |
| 03:18:07.25 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 03:18:07.29 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:18:07.35 | Ray Withy | Thank you. |
| 03:18:07.79 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:18:07.83 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 03:18:07.84 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:18:07.94 | Ray Withy | Yeah, so we're just going to... |
| 03:18:09.73 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:18:10.31 | Ray Withy | Thank you. Do I get a consensus on the Cindy Powers and Doreen that not being in the end? Continue? Yes. So then the other would be, do we vote on the, take a vote on the other two? Three. |
| 03:18:18.91 | Unknown | Oh. |
| 03:18:25.55 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 03:18:25.72 | Unknown | Thank you. Dr. |
| 03:18:26.64 | Mary Wagner | So, wait for two spots. |
| 03:18:28.38 | Unknown | That's right. Thank you. |
| 03:18:30.02 | Mary Wagner | Three nominations for two. |
| 03:18:31.74 | Unknown | Yeah, I like it. |
| 03:18:32.11 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 03:18:33.56 | Unknown | And I recommend staying there and so on in disguise. |
| 03:18:41.36 | Thomas Theodores | And I recommend Sila Sileska and Richard Yang. Amazing qualifications. Thank you. |
| 03:18:48.83 | Unknown | Stan Baer and Silas Seleska. |
| 03:18:49.48 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:18:49.52 | Thomas Theodores | and, |
| 03:18:52.09 | Thomas Theodores | I'm ready. Yes, Stand Bear and Celis. |
| 03:18:57.71 | Ray Withy | . |
| 03:18:58.33 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 03:18:58.91 | Ray Withy | Thank you. Mmm. Board of Library Trustees. |
| 03:19:05.98 | Douglas Storm | Okay. |
| 03:19:09.69 | Ray Withy | We're picking... Two spots. Thank you. |
| 03:19:14.48 | Unknown | Thank you. We'll see you next time. |
| 03:19:14.79 | Ray Withy | But we also have two incumbents. |
| 03:19:14.80 | Unknown | But we also have |
| 03:19:20.27 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:19:21.05 | Thomas Theodores | Yes. Yes. Dawn Means and Elizabeth Turquoise. |
| 03:19:24.31 | Ray Withy | So who's going off? |
| 03:19:28.47 | Thomas Theodores | Bye. |
| 03:19:28.86 | Ray Withy | It's okay. |
| 03:19:32.94 | Unknown | It's on the tip of my tongue. |
| 03:19:38.53 | Ray Withy | Take a deep breath. |
| 03:19:39.95 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 03:19:42.85 | Ray Withy | Patricia. |
| 03:19:43.20 | Thomas Theodores | Patricia DeLuca |
| 03:19:51.51 | Thomas Theodores | Mr. Mayor, may I nominate Diane Brokob? Thank you. And then the two incumbents, Don Means and Elizabeth Turpline. |
| 03:20:01.19 | Ray Withy | Okay. And... Thank you. |
| 03:20:03.84 | Unknown | I'll second that. |
| 03:20:07.42 | Ray Withy | Thank you. Yeah. |
| 03:20:10.02 | Unknown | Thank you. The mayor nominated |
| 03:20:11.50 | Alice Merrill | Thank you. |
| 03:20:12.97 | Unknown | Thank you. Then the others. |
| 03:20:13.24 | Ray Withy | than the others. |
| 03:20:14.03 | Thomas Theodores | you |
| 03:20:14.32 | Unknown | Oh. |
| 03:20:15.03 | Ray Withy | Thank you. Okay, well, do you need other nominations? Thank you. |
| 03:20:21.04 | Thomas Theodores | No. |
| 03:20:21.26 | Ray Withy | Thank you. Okay, amen. also Diane Bokob and what was the other? And then also continuing Dawn Means and Elizabeth Terpon. That's it. Yeah. We have a consensus. Yeah, I second that. |
| 03:20:38.25 | Thomas Theodores | Yeah. |
| 03:20:38.42 | Thomas Theodores | Yeah. Yeah, I second that. |
| 03:20:40.80 | Ray Withy | Okay, all right, I'm going through that. Okay, then other than that, other reports of significance? |
| 03:20:53.34 | Ray Withy | Nay. Public? No. With that, I move to adjourn. |
| 03:21:10.03 | Unknown | Yes. |
| 03:21:11.21 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
| 03:21:11.31 | Unknown | you |
| 03:21:11.63 | Thomas Theodores | you |
| 03:21:11.70 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:21:11.75 | Thomas Theodores | Thank you. |
Ray Burgess — In Favor: Advocated for installing handrails on public stairways, especially the Marie Street steps, for safety reasons, referencing a local age-friendly survey. ▶ 📄