Sausalito City Council Meeting

Meeting Transcript

Time	Speaker	Text
00:00:00.03	Unknown	Small audience tonight. We're all near each other. So welcome to this special meeting on June 30th of the Mauritius Specific Plans Steering Committee. And we've got, if you didn't get anything from the table, we have a couple things on the table here. We've got the packet that staff has prepared for us to review, moving towards the memo to the consultants. We've got a few communications from various residents. And so that's up there on the table. Otherwise, we'll kind of get right into – I kind of want to go through this also for the benefit of the committee here, the schedule tonight. We're going to run through the call to order, approval of of the agenda public comment on items not on the agenda for those of the audience we'll run through that and then the roundtable discussion we have a lot of rolling up our sleeves so I wore short sleeves to do tonight and really kind of get to get some place on these items. So the round table discussion is broken up into three parts. The first two are a little bit more informative based on some discussion we had last time around the area of applied arts and how it is set up currently in the specific plan in terms of allowable use. And we'll let Lily lead us through that. And I think there will be some discussion that we do need to have around that in terms of how it's included there. And then we've also got a review of waterfront industrial uses in the Marin ship, and we'll let Lily take us through that too. I think maybe there might be a little less discussion around that one. And then finally, we have to really get into, sink our teeth into, see the draft transmittal from the committee to PlaceWorks. So we have a draft that was put together. It is a draft. Everything is up for discussion, whether or not those points are relevant, whether or not the language is right. et cetera, et cetera. That's the last page of this packet here that was prepared for us tonight. And we really need to get into each one of those items one by one. We'll have – these are something that staff put together for us from the last meeting that we had based on notes that were taken and general following of the discussion. And I think Lily did a great job in capturing what she thought we were trying to say and what we thought we were trying to say, actually, is what I should say. So we need to get into that, and I want to put a timeline on getting into C by 7.30 at the latest so we can really kind of get down into these one by one, because we've got to finalize our edits and either agree or disagree upon them so that we can have a hard working document as a result to be able to provide with a consultant the next time we have this meeting. So with that, we'll go to call to order.
00:02:29.07	Unknown	Yeah.
00:02:29.49	Unknown	Thank you.
00:03:07.56	Lily (Staff)	Can you remember hunting?
00:03:08.95	Unknown	you
00:03:08.98	Unknown	Thank you.
00:03:10.21	Lily (Staff)	Committee member Badger? Committee Member Werner? Here. Committee Member Theodoris. Committee Member Withee.
00:03:18.08	Ray	Thank you.
00:03:18.11	Unknown	Here.
00:03:18.70	Lily (Staff)	Vice Chair Kelly. Thank you. Chair Petrovich.
00:03:21.57	Unknown	Here. Okay, approval of the agenda.
00:03:26.95	Mike	some of I'm not sure.
00:03:28.88	Unknown	All those in favor say aye. Aye. Okay, public comment on items not on the agenda. Does anybody from the public have any comments to make right now before we get into this?
00:03:38.66	Unknown	Well,
00:03:39.15	Unknown	Okay, thank you, everybody. And so let's step right into 4A, and Lily will lead us through that.
00:03:49.63	Lily (Staff)	Thank you, Mr. Chair. At your last meeting, there was a discussion regarding applied arts uses in the marine ships. And I thought it would be helpful to have the definitions of what applied arts, fine arts, marine arts, and industrial arts are. So I have that on the screen. and provided the definitions in the handout. So industrial arts are businesses like cabin making, woodworking, marine arts are boat building, marine cabinry. fine arts, photography, painters, sculptors, and then applied arts are businesses like architects, commercial photographers, interior designers, um, industrial designers, and then there's also a marine applied arts category, and some of the examples that are given in the Marineship Pacific Plan are nautical art and photography. And so these lists that are in the Marin Ship Specific Plan are not exhaustive, but they provide some examples. Applied arts are an inclusionary arts use in the Marin Ship Specific Plan area. What that means is that in order to have an applied arts use on any given parcel, There needs to be And, industrial, marine, or fine arts component to it. And the ratio is essentially two to one. there can be no more than 50 percent of the total, so let me back up, of the total arts uses on a property, I don't know. fine arts and marine arts or industrial arts or a combination of those, there can be no more than 50% applied arts uses. and the applied arts uses. need to apply for a conditional use permit from the Planning Commission in order to get approved. So I gave an example in the memo of a specific project that has 1,000 square feet of fine arts and 2,000 square feet of industrial arts, so there's 3,000 square feet of total arts uses, then there could be no more than 1,500 square feet of applied arts space, and that needs to go through the conditional use permit process with the planning commission. In order to increase that 1,500 square feet of applied arts use, there would need to be an amendment to the conditional use permit, and the industrial, marine, or fine arts space needs to increase as well.
00:06:15.11	Lily (Staff)	So I gave you all of the definitions. I provided also the MarinShip use table where you can see where arts uses are allowed in the MarinShip. And then the difference between arts uses in the waterfront and in the industrial zoning district. in the waterfront Applied Arts are limited to arts uses applied arts in the marine arts category as well So that's another caveat
00:06:48.17	Unknown	Thank you. So I think that you know, what's worthy of some discussion here are two points, one being And kind of moving forward to our overall recommendation, all these categories still feel like they make sense to us today or moving forwards, or are they going to meet the goal of what we're looking for moving forwards? And particularly, I think, on the applied arts side of things. And then the second thing I think is worthy of some discussion is the way that applied arts have an inclusionary association to them in the current plan and what we feel
00:07:29.50	Unknown	Amen.
00:07:29.94	Unknown	Thank you.
00:07:35.52	Unknown	makes sense moving forward, whether or not it makes sense as is, or with some modification.
00:07:43.35	Unknown	Does anybody have any questions, clarifications needed? Many members. Thank you.
00:07:51.92	Leon	Yes, Leon. Thank you. I was very pleased to have the opportunity presented to go back and look at the zoning and categories, the uses for the Marin ship from the 1980s. And I felt that – Most of the information I saw would still apply today. However, there have been some changes, and in the applied arts sense, we've seen in a cultural way more application going to the applied arts. So I thought that our zoning back then was somewhat restrictive, but I think that that was also because we were still trying to keep as much marinship in the sense of fishing, water related, waterfront type uses as possible, and on the arts side, it really was more fine arts based. The industrial arts building was very active. So my feeling now is that we probably would be good, it would be good for us to look at expanding that type of use because it is a functional use and it is more prevalent.
00:09:18.07	Unknown	Expanding. play.
00:09:19.08	Leon	Arts.
00:09:19.49	Unknown	Thank you.
00:09:20.65	Leon	I'm sorry? Expanding applied arts. Expanding applied arts, yes.
00:09:22.05	Unknown	And expanding.
00:09:30.25	Unknown	Does anybody else have any comments on that?
00:09:33.09	Tom	I have a question. And I know. to the degree anyone knows or staff knows. In applying these, I mean, I could see this be difficult. You have photographers in a couple of places, you know, what's the difference, especially now, maybe in the 80s it was different, but now what's the difference between a commercial photographer and an arts photographer? And these other things, some of these lines are definitely blurred. And has the city had been applying these standards at all? And have there been any problems with it? I guess if anyone knows. Thank you.
00:10:04.14	Unknown	Thank you.
00:10:04.17	Tom	Thank you. I suspect they know the answer.
00:10:05.29	Lily (Staff)	There's...
00:10:05.57	Unknown	Thank you.
00:10:05.74	Lily (Staff)	the end. well there's a process in the in the zoning ordinance itself as far as these determinations of there's a use that the Community Development Director didn't feel like it felt within fell within one of these categories. then there's a process to take it to the Planning Commission to determine what that use is and if it does fit within one of those categories. And I think... I think Jeremy has recently gone through that process. I don't remember if it was specifically for the marine ship or not. But there is a process in the zoning ordinance
00:10:39.75	Unknown	you
00:10:41.75	Leon	Thank you.
00:10:41.77	Unknown	Thank you.
00:10:42.75	Leon	Could I further a little bit, expand on my comment?
00:10:43.66	Unknown	Thank you.
00:10:43.90	Unknown	Thank you.
00:10:47.63	Leon	We have seen since the 1980s, An enormous, enormous change in employment application, whether it's corporate, and what I'm saying is corporate, is different now than it was. And the number of entrepreneurial small businesses has just really multiplied. And these are the types of, I think, facilities that have
00:11:07.22	Unknown	Yeah.
00:11:22.79	Leon	have an advantage on the applied art side also. As opposed to having to. lease out a larger space and a more corporate building or location. So I think there is a reason for it. There is a reasonable application in the size and the economy, the type of economy that we have.
00:11:48.11	Unknown	Can you be more specific? Mr. Farah, I'm
00:11:51.01	Leon	following that. Yeah, well, give me a little sense of what you mean by what you mean by.
00:11:55.29	Unknown	Like a specific example.
00:11:56.04	Leon	Thank you. Um.
00:11:58.89	Unknown	of a type of a business for a type of category
00:12:01.77	Leon	Well, I think just in the sense of fine arts, Um, The application of fine arts used to be the dominant application, but now it really has gone into Graphic arts, more creative arts, photography that's changed.
00:12:20.47	Unknown	Yeah.
00:12:31.49	Unknown	The line is more blurred between fine art and commercial art?
00:12:35.22	Leon	Oh, yeah. Is that what you're saying? Yeah. Okay.
00:12:35.71	Unknown	Is that what you're saying? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. A little bit similar to what Tyler was saying.
00:12:38.51	Leon	I would say. But fine arts is much smaller now than applied arts. If you look at the colleges and universities of arts, Thank you.
00:12:50.22	Unknown	Yeah.
00:12:50.36	Leon	in San Francisco or the Bay Area, but San Francisco is large enough. you will see that there is one of the universities and still all fine arts, but that's about the only one. The others are trying to help you get a job and with broad application.
00:13:03.57	Unknown	Thank you.
00:13:03.61	Unknown	Yeah. Mm-hmm. of Platt Arts.
00:13:08.75	Leon	you In applied arts, yes.
00:13:10.76	Unknown	does anybody do any of the other committee members support broadening the definitions and applied ours
00:13:20.60	Bill	I'm confused. I'm sort of wondering what we're doing here. As far as I can tell, what we're supposed to be doing is providing some guidance to the consultants to finish up their final report. I don't know, without knowing something about what those consultants – I mean, we've got their preliminary report already. Are we – ARE WE GOING TO Thank you. tell them to change gears, that they did what they were asked to do in the request for proposals so far. I think we're getting to the point where we're beginning to delve into areas and create requirements for the consultants that are beyond the scope of what their work was, and I don't know what time they have left. I don't know what fees they have left to do what they're doing. I don't know whether they were expecting to do any of the things that are kind of on our list right now.
00:14:19.31	Unknown	Mm-hmm.
00:14:19.69	Bill	And so I'm just a little confused as to where it is that we're trying to go right now and what we're trying to accomplish.
00:14:30.27	Leon	Thank you.
00:14:30.31	Bill	Thank you.
00:14:30.39	Leon	Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
00:14:31.98	Bill	Thank you.
00:14:32.00	Leon	Since I brought up the point about applied arts, it meant that I was looking at a change that could occur in the area. I don't see this as necessarily an activity for the consultants.
00:14:37.08	Unknown	Mm-hmm.
00:14:40.97	Unknown	Mm-hmm.
00:14:48.50	Unknown	Mm-hmm.
00:14:48.84	Leon	We were brought information about zoning and uses in the marine ship. And I'm responding to that because I think it is something that's going to have to be looked at or that should be looked at, I'll put it that way. I'm not saying that this is a consultant's issue because I don't think it is. I think this can be handled within the normal scope of the city.
00:15:12.01	Unknown	Okay, let's get some more comments from Ray.
00:15:13.51	Ray	Yeah. So pick up on Bill's point. Where I think the staff is trying to get us to is the attachment for, which is this memo. And that's on our agenda item. Right. Is that the thing you got there? Yeah, yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah. So that's where we're gonna get to. I think that, and so that's, where's the agenda gone? Sorry.
00:15:31.99	Unknown	Yeah, yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah.
00:15:48.95	Ray	This is item 4C. I mean, we're on item 4A. Right, exactly. Now, so the reason why we're having this specific topic...
00:15:50.78	Unknown	Right. 4A. Right. Yeah.
00:15:56.88	Ray	discuss my understanding was last time Somebody brought up the question, should Applied Arts simply be and approve use and eliminate the inclusionary issue. That's the issue we need to be talking about as to whether that's a recommendation of this group or not.
00:16:11.39	Unknown	Right. It's the second part. And we can also decide whether or not we should be talking about it. It's open. So this is the recommendation. That's kind of the first.
00:16:17.20	Ray	Thank you.
00:16:17.23	Bill	Right.
00:16:17.47	Ray	Bye.
00:16:17.48	Bill	Bye.
00:16:17.50	Ray	Thank you.
00:16:17.53	Bill	Thank you.
00:16:17.58	Ray	Bye.
00:16:17.60	Bill	All right. is do we know enough? to make that decision. answer I think is no. So I think that item number seven on the memorandum we're trying to get to was applied to use as recommendation. And so what is our recommendation if, in fact, we have to give Charlie Knox at PlaceWorks a recommendation?
00:16:48.62	Unknown	Sometimes we don't necessarily, we can also agree that item number seven doesn't belong in the memo.
00:16:53.22	Bill	Thank you. That's sort of where I was trying to go. Thank you.
00:16:58.59	Unknown	So is it a – it was a topic that came up last time. Is it a worthwhile discussion to you that will – provide us with any additional information, or is it more of a sideline right now to talk about the inclusionary nature of how it's currently set up? What's a significant thing for them to consider?
00:17:11.94	Bill	I think it says.
00:17:16.24	Bill	I think it's a worthwhile consideration just as the entire document that we were provided with last time by Jonathan Goldman in terms of the infrastructure and the sea level rise and so on is also a worthwhile thing to be discussing, but it's not something that I think can impact the completion of the consultant's work. And maybe staff can help me on this as to where the consultants really are what time they have left, where they are on the schedule that they were assuming they were going to do, I have sympathy for consultants because I am one sometimes.
00:17:54.77	Unknown	I have.
00:17:58.34	Bill	And when you get strung out like this, There's a limited amount of work that you can actually accomplish in order to finish what you need to do. And what we need to have them do is finish their work. so that we can decide whether we do anything else in the future. And what it should be. that. Thank you. So, Can the staff tell me something about that?
00:18:22.54	Lily (Staff)	So the PlaceWorks has a, right now we're on a fixed cost with them, so we're not time and materials anymore. they have committed to finishing the report and they're committed to coming back to you. on July 23rd at your meeting I think depending on how your recommend your list of recommendation items is finally drafted. We'll have to determine if your recommendations are going to be incorporated into PlaceWorks report basically how that's going to happen, or if there's going to be a standalone transmittal from you as a committee. We've read the report that was provided by PlaceWorks, and here are our recommendations. So it kind of depends on what happens this evening as far as your – the list of recommendations that you come up with.
00:19:20.71	Unknown	Do you need more clarity?
00:19:22.65	Bill	Thank you. But what happens if what we recommend is contradictory to what's already been developed in their report, and how do they cope with that? We just go in there as, anyway. Maybe it doesn't matter.
00:19:42.16	Unknown	I think we work with that's what the next meeting's for to kind of work out those details. I mean, it's to get the best end result that we can.
00:19:44.34	Bill	Thank you. It's to get the best end result that we can. It's the goal here. I just think that we ought to be getting into these items that are on C here.
00:19:58.02	Mike	Okay. I, I think we should, you know, with all due respect, everybody needs to talk about a lot of things. I think we can cover them all by talking about C and just get at it. Okay. Should we?
00:20:09.73	Unknown	Okay, should we skip B? Thank you.
00:20:11.67	Bill	Thank you.
00:20:11.72	Mike	That's my feeling.
00:20:12.75	Bill	Thank you. I agree with you. Thank you.
00:20:15.74	Mike	.
00:20:16.03	Bill	Those two of us.
00:20:18.56	Unknown	All right, does everyone want to go right to C? Skip B? Or should we run through, give staff one minute to go through B?
00:20:18.85	Bill	of
00:20:25.71	Lily (Staff)	He goes,
00:20:25.98	Unknown	Thank you.
00:20:26.03	Lily (Staff)	Thank you. B was just provided as reference materials, essential, so.
00:20:28.60	Unknown	Thank you. Okay, so we have that reference term. Okay, let's get right into, and possibly some of these other topics will come up again, but let's get into this memo. So this memo, this draft memo, I should say, is based on what we as a committee had expressed in our last meeting. Again, I want to emphasize, you know, these are notes that were taken as important points and we want to communicate that to become part of their plan, and we need to finalize. I think it's very important that we finalize the wording so that our intent is very clear. And we also, you know, need to discuss do we still agree with some of these points? Do we even want one through eight, or we want to strike some of these points or even add? So we can kind of get right into that right now, starting off with number one. And what I think what I'm going to do here is kind of read these off and then we will ask staff for some clarification as kind of what the intent was and then we can get in a discussion about it. Number one, the marineship specific plan should be updated, although unique and special area in South Slido, the marineship should be treated as part of South Slido and therefore the MSP should eventually be folded into the general plan entirely. Steph, can you give us a little bit more to that?
00:21:55.39	Lily (Staff)	So we heard from the group a general consensus to this point that There should be work. done to update the MSP in some form. but eventually the MSP should be a part of the general plan and not a standalone document. And so the policies and intent of the general plan would go into the, sorry, the emergency assistance plan would go into the general plan. And then the implementing programs, so for example, the zoning development standards, all of that would be folded into the zoning ordinance.
00:22:38.05	Unknown	Okay, any questions, comments? Does everybody remember this discussion?
00:22:45.34	Tom	this part, I mean I thought, Well, that paragraph is somewhat confusing because it says it should be updated and then we're going to eventually fold it. So, We've got to be clear about what we're going to do, because I thought we were going to move a little bit past that. So, I mean, definitely past it to general plan.
00:22:55.46	Unknown	Bye.
00:22:55.48	Unknown	Oh, you were right.
00:22:55.80	Unknown	Yeah.
00:23:00.89	Tom	The first sentence. If you're the consultant, the first thing we say is, the marineship specific plan is going to be updated, and then we're going to eventually fold it in, which is something lesser than I think we're on the track for.
00:23:15.90	Unknown	Well, I think the goal here is to reword to make sure our intent is clear, I guess. I will throw something out there, just some notes that I had in there just to get the conversation started. Some kind of scribbles I made here to revise this, paragraph would be The intent of the Marinership-specific plan should be merged into the general plan. Although unique and special area in Saucilita, the Marinership should be treated as part of Saucilita and therefore be part of the general plan.
00:23:53.95	Tom	Can you make a recommendation? The consultants in the draft gave us options, and one of them was a general plan. It might be easier for them to understand that we moved from, and I don't have in front of me, option one to option three or whatever it was, than if we worded it, they might get confused. Because I think that's what we're doing, and we should double-check that language. I don't have it right there.
00:23:56.23	Unknown	the
00:23:56.45	Unknown	Yeah, it's always in there.
00:24:14.98	Bill	in the last go-around was that they referred to a targeted update of the Marineship-specific plan. By that, they meant,
00:24:15.65	Tom	around.
00:24:22.55	Bill	addressing some specific issues, and they probably are like the specific issues we were just talking about in terms of whether applied arts ought to be just simply a permitted use. They had five recommendations, targeted update of that, protection for the marine rails, designation of specific circulation improvements, which I think we could talk about. infrastructure analysis and an economic study. Thank you. Those were their five. Elements.
00:24:56.57	Tom	Thank you.
00:24:57.67	Unknown	There were, but...
00:24:58.87	Bill	Thank you.
00:24:58.88	Tom	Somewhere in that report, and I'm sorry I don't have it in front of me, they gave us this forum That was one part of the recommendation, but I think there was one section where they said the way you approach it. Yeah, I think this is the part I was referring to, 2.4. Six. Or two.
00:25:17.97	Bill	16, 16. options for next steps? OK. Yeah.
00:25:22.51	Mike	Go down to number four. Is there another one?
00:25:22.97	Tom	Thank you.
00:25:27.29	Tom	And they gave us some, and they gave us the, estimated cost is
00:25:32.59	Mike	I would change that from update the specific plan to something more like examine each element of the specific plan for eventual incorporation or not into the general plan. And that way you're not getting rid of anything. You're examining every single element and deciding yay or nay based on the studies, and et cetera, et cetera. Right. And so nothing is lost.
00:25:50.59	Unknown	Amen.
00:25:50.81	Unknown	Thank you.
00:25:59.48	Mike	you Updating this without doing the general plan is, I think, just a follow-up. We're doing the same thing over and over again, and that's the crazy part. So I think that if we just change that from update to examine and consider the elements of the specific plan in folding into a general plan update. As a general plan, we're just going to get the update, not just specific update.
00:26:11.31	Unknown	Right.
00:26:15.68	Unknown	examination The Press. the elements of the
00:26:28.17	Ray	Yes. I think that the consultants Um, basically assume that there was no way in the foreseeable future we considered update in the general plan. Therefore, the only option that was feasible was a targeted update to the marine ship specific plan. And I think the thing before us is whether the consultant needs to be reoriented on that.
00:26:52.98	Mike	is what we're going to do today. Tell them what we think they should do.
00:26:53.99	Ray	tell them what we think they should do.
00:26:55.74	Unknown	you
00:26:55.90	Ray	Thank you.
00:26:56.03	Unknown	So let me attempt to rewrite here and see if there's any additional comments on it. Number one would be changed to examine and consider each element of the specific plan
00:26:56.17	Ray	Yeah.
00:27:05.55	Unknown	towards the goal of folding the marine ship into the general area, into the general plan. any revisions? Does that generally capture?
00:27:11.94	Unknown	Is that generally captured? Yeah.
00:27:16.60	Unknown	the intent with all the more wordsmithing required.
00:27:20.42	Unknown	Uh-huh.
00:27:21.02	Leon	Thank you.
00:27:21.04	Unknown	Thank you.
00:27:21.06	Leon	Thank you.
00:27:22.64	Mike	I don't think.
00:27:23.34	Leon	I don't know if we're saying the same thing or if I'm saying something a little bit different.
00:27:25.33	Unknown	Thank you.
00:27:25.39	Mike	you
00:27:31.20	Leon	And I'm not saying it should be exclusively this, but the way I... I look at the specific plan and the general plan is that with regard to the marineship, there should be, it actually should be that all aspects of the specific plan must be supported in the general plan. In other words, it must be a reflection of the intent of the general plan. The general plan gives the picture of the entire community. And so a specific plan should not take itself outside of that general plan, although the specific plan has its own important place and needs.
00:28:17.81	Unknown	Thank you.
00:28:21.81	Unknown	I think you are saying something different because I think of what the intent was, as written here, is for the After an update of the general plan that incorporates the Marin shed, there is no need for a specific plan.
00:28:40.22	Leon	I don't believe that. I know I'm in the minority on that, but I just don't believe that. I think it just has too many uniquenesses and too many points of importance that can get lost. if it isn't seen on its own and valued on its own.
00:28:57.40	Mike	No doubt. I don't know. I don't have any facts to back up what I'm about to say, but I'll say it anyway. Welcome. I think that there are probably very few communities in California that would have a specific plan that's 25 years old. It would have been incorporated into the general plan at some point in time, specifically set forth to do work, but with the idea that it goes away as time goes on and becomes part and parcel of the entire general plan, which is what's supposed to govern everything you do.
00:29:01.65	Leon	It's like, for us. Welcome.
00:29:04.69	Unknown	Thank you.
00:29:15.32	Unknown	Yeah.
00:29:29.91	Mike	Thank you.
00:29:29.93	Leon	I see what you're saying, but I disagree. From my standpoint, I don't think that that's right for Sausalito.
00:29:31.08	Mike	I but I disagree. Well, that respectfully... From my standpoint, I don't know. Thank you.
00:29:39.08	Unknown	Thank you. But I think the point is that there's enough detail in the recommendations that it is effectively the same without the duplication of overlays, underlays, that may or may not contradict
00:29:49.73	Leon	Amen. Thank you. We're all working for the same thing, I think. But I just see real importance to a specific plan, especially there.
00:29:59.29	Unknown	about the language.
00:30:00.00	Bill	Thank you.
00:30:04.04	Bill	Bill.
00:30:04.49	Leon	Thank you.
00:30:04.53	Unknown	Bill?
00:30:04.93	Leon	Thank you.
00:30:04.95	Bill	I think we're getting tangled up in our own... language here in some ways. Help us out. And also in our own.
00:30:11.19	Unknown	Help us out.
00:30:14.13	Bill	desire to to follow through with the directions that were given, simple-minded directions given to the consultants, and they did their job as far as I can tell. Under most circumstances, Planner speak tends to make my head spin, but there's some really important things in Adam Cravazzi's email to us in this four pager. And the most important one is that that We as a steering committee and the consultants, in fact, We're not provided with an up-to-date, well-rounded site analysis. That's the line that he. state it, and that includes a whole series of statistical things and important issues, important studies that I think are, It looks like Mr. Carvazzi thinks so. that these are all background things that are much more important to understanding what can and should happen in the marine ship. than what's in the specific plan now or anything that we can dream up. And so I commend Mr. Crevetsy for going through the work that he did to put together this email because I agree with about 65, maybe 70% of it. The other percent I don't agree with. But that part that says, you don't have enough information to really figure out how to handle it yet. And so if it gets... I don't think tinkering around the edges with the specific plan by updating it is the right thing to do. I think that the right thing to do is to maybe set some visions and some goals and some specific things for the consultants to chew on a little bit before they finish up their final report.
00:32:24.13	Ray	Yeah, I would. agree with 95% of what you just said.
00:32:30.68	Unknown	Cheers.
00:32:34.04	Ray	The only 5% difference being I might have a quibble with you or two about what percentage of Adam's email is.
00:32:34.14	Unknown	The O.D. fight
00:32:40.89	Unknown	okay that both are right out of that
00:32:40.97	Ray	Okay. All right. Other than that, I completely agree with everything you said because. I play poker on that one. Yeah. Okay.
00:32:42.68	Bill	Thank you.
00:32:42.95	Unknown	Thank you.
00:32:45.75	Bill	I play poker on that one.
00:32:50.09	Ray	I think Adam actually summarized it very nicely about where we're at and what we need to do. And so I think that should be thought through by the consultants to sort of enrich their recommendations a bit more, perhaps to outline their roadmap a bit more. And I think what item number one on this memo back to them is really, I think about, is asking them to perhaps suggest what the roadmap might look like in terms of future studies in the context of potentially a general plan amendment. because previously the recommendations and roadmap was put in the context of we're not foreseeing the general plan amendment and therefore we're just recommending a targeted specific plan update. Which I think is what you're most scared of. And therefore if we're coming back saying no we want it in the context of more of a general plan, now revise your road map and show us how we do it. As opposed to work around the edges.
00:33:40.63	Unknown	Which I think is what you're scared of,
00:33:50.35	Bill	The point of this is, this item one where it says the marineship specific plan should be updated, frankly it seems to me that we ought to be saying the marineship planning area ought to be more carefully defined than it has been. Yes. I think that's what we're saying. And then work from that. And then go where you go with it.
00:34:05.65	Unknown	Thank you.
00:34:05.67	Unknown	has been. Yes.
00:34:07.10	Unknown	Thank you.
00:34:08.61	Unknown	I think that's what we're saying.
00:34:09.72	Unknown	you and then go where you go with it.
00:34:16.23	Tom	Thank you.
00:34:16.33	Bill	Thank you.
00:34:16.39	Tom	Thank you.
00:34:16.40	Bill	Thank you.
00:34:17.84	Unknown	So...
00:34:19.41	Tom	Although we have to be clear with them to note the shift. I mean, they're going to know it, but I mean that we're making this clear shift in strategy. Yes, because we've already done it.
00:34:25.63	Bill	Yes, because we've already – Well, of course, but, you know, and it's not going to really impact their study. What they've done is what they've done, and that's fine, but they're going to end up – I mean –
00:34:29.73	Tom	Right.
00:34:34.73	Bill	Hopefully they'll end up with more work to do.
00:34:39.55	Unknown	Well, ultimately I think we're revising what we're seeing the end goal ought to be where we want to end up as opposed to an updated specific plan we want to end up with. So who wants to give us a newly wordsmithed definition? Because we've been tripping off over our own words here. We don't want them to as well. We've got to be really clear here. Bill, do you want to take a stab at it? Another stab at it?
00:34:46.78	Bill	Thank you.
00:34:46.96	Unknown	Thank you. So who wants to give?
00:34:50.03	Unknown	Gotcha.
00:34:50.68	Unknown	Thank you.
00:35:03.53	Bill	Thank you.
00:35:07.16	Unknown	Do you want to hear what Mike said?
00:35:09.78	Bill	Thank you.
00:35:10.96	Unknown	examine and consider each element of the specific plan towards the goal of I put this forward, towards the goal of the MarinShip area. becoming part of the general plan.
00:35:25.03	Leon	Well, I think his statement was to kind of pocket it in there, that you would duck it in. And I think that that's very appropriate.
00:35:31.76	Unknown	Thank you.
00:35:35.17	Mike	Thank you. Adam has some great language here. Pursue it within the context of the general plan.
00:35:41.70	Leon	Yes.
00:35:42.24	Mike	So.
00:35:43.16	Leon	you
00:35:43.22	Unknown	Okay, so.
00:35:44.14	Leon	Thank you. That's kind of what I was saying in this, but on the reverse side.
00:35:46.63	Mike	Yeah.
00:35:48.91	Unknown	Okay, examine and consider each element of the specific plan within the context in pursuit. What was the line again?
00:35:57.64	Mike	We kind of don't know where. Here's the problem. You kind of don't know where it's going to end up. So you've got to be careful you don't try to make the end before you know what the end should be. So what you're really trying to do is you're trying to give them some direction as to how we think, as a group, hopefully, that a study of the marineship might go. And we know that we have a document called the specific plan. We know that we have a general plan. Wouldn't it be nice, because I think it's the goal again,
00:36:10.19	Unknown	Thank you.
00:36:33.19	Mike	We state it's the goal of every community to have a general plan that encompasses the entire city. Specific plans usually do what this one did. It defines an area that's not covered. I suspect when the specific plan was passed,
00:36:40.14	Unknown	Thank you.
00:36:46.59	Mike	There was not a document embedded inside of the general plan or documents embedded inside the general plan that gave enough specificity, if you will, to use the word, to the marinship area that planners knew what to do. So they formed a specific plan, which is designed to do that, BINGO. THEY STUDIED IT VERY CAREFULLY, VERY CLOSELY. right down to the partial level. and came up with a plan that's been executed now for the last 25 years, for better or for worse. Um, There's a few aberrations there, but by and large, it's as intact as it is. could be under that plan. It's time to move forward. And moving forward, my goal would be, if I I had my way. I would say let's get it under the rubric of the general plan. And that's where you and I might differ, but I think we can do everything that's in this inside the general plan and have a complete and an orderly document that would be. Well, I'm not.
00:37:43.17	Unknown	I'm not sure if there's even a difference there in terms of what we want the outcome to be.
00:37:43.47	Leon	I'm not sure if there's even a
00:37:44.18	Mike	Thank you.
00:37:44.23	Leon	Thank you.
00:37:48.47	Mike	Yeah.
00:37:48.49	Leon	No. Yeah, I don't think there's a difference in the outcome. I think we're tripping over our language. Maybe I'm looking in too much detail on this, but if I might. What I think about...
00:37:53.63	Unknown	I think we should be over our language.
00:38:03.47	Leon	different things in the marineship that I think are very important. Most of that area is owned by private parties. So how do we deal, I mean, work with them and deal with common issues there? Those are gonna evolve into different things as we go along because we know the environment has certain implications for the future. If we don't do that in a specific way, how are we going to deal with that? Um, The economy down there is different and it is a major economy for the community. We're saying when I was on the council doing the specific plan
00:38:48.76	Unknown	Hey.
00:38:49.95	Leon	It had one economy. Now it really has changed to a great extent. So we're trying to deal with that now.
00:38:57.51	Unknown	Thank you.
00:38:58.18	Leon	but is it really something that we're going to be able to take into the general plan and deal through the general plan? In other words, come back, reach back. and really address it the way we should. Those are the questions that I have.
00:39:12.00	Unknown	Well, listen. Let me try this again because I think maybe there's an element that's missing that we can recapture here for you. Examine and consider. The direction to the consultancy, of course, is to do the right thing as studies prove things out to be the right thing. Examine and consider each element of the specific plan in pursuit of the area and retaining its unique characteristics, becoming part of the general plan. I don't know if that helps you.
00:39:41.60	Unknown	Yeah.
00:39:42.82	Bill	I'm still concerned about how you do that. And I'm concerned about you not saying anything in here to address this specific issue that would have to come if we were looking at this as part of the general plan or as part of anything else. And that is to develop the up-to-date today analysis of the site in all of its pieces and parts.
00:39:43.03	Unknown	I was just really trying to be clear to them.
00:40:11.91	Unknown	All right.
00:40:12.23	Bill	And the private ownership is only one small part of that. As far as I'm concerned, To some extent, we wouldn't be sitting here if it weren't for two of stripperous private owners who are making life kind of unpleasant down there. And that happens too. I think it happened. a lot of cases. And it'll come up again. But the notion that we're talking about not the marineship specific plan, or I'm not, I'm talking about the marineship planning area. And I'm saying that that area needs without bias brought by the specific plan or anything else, it needs to have its own collection of analyses done
00:40:58.63	Unknown	It's good.
00:40:58.97	Unknown	Thank you.
00:41:03.92	Bill	that are started to some extent by this packet that we got from Jonathan Goldman. It also is involved with all of the interviews that were done. Those are all pieces and parts of that.
00:41:07.64	Unknown	Yeah.
00:41:12.00	Unknown	Thank you.
00:41:16.61	Unknown	Right.
00:41:16.64	Bill	I'm sorry. But there's more to it. And I think that if we don't have something formal and defined and validatable, if that's a word, to work with, we're going to be playing Don Quixote all over again. I think that's...
00:41:42.39	Leon	Isn't that our objective, though, to do that?
00:41:45.53	Unknown	I think it is. I think we need to get, I think it is. We need to put that into words so that's very clear to them.
00:41:45.87	Leon	I'm sorry.
00:41:54.02	Mike	Why don't we just say to define the marineship area as a marineship planning area
00:41:54.34	Unknown	Why don't we...
00:42:01.83	Mike	and study it as whether it should be a part of the general plan. How's that?
00:42:09.86	Leon	I like the planning. I would concur with that because we agree to the same end result. But I think now that you've entered this, it gives it, I think, the recognition that it deserves of being different and needs to have its own issues addressed.
00:42:10.27	Mike	I like that. I like the plan. I'm part of the general plan.
00:42:29.59	Mike	I don't think there's any question about that. I think we're all saying the same thing.
00:42:29.61	Leon	I don't think there's any question about that. I think we're all saying something. you
00:42:32.61	Mike	Thank you.
00:42:32.81	Leon	Thank you.
00:42:34.82	Mike	It's a planning area. Exactly. Bill's nomenclature there is terrific. Thank you.
00:42:41.49	Ray	Thank you.
00:42:41.52	Mike	Right.
00:42:41.57	Ray	I think that's it. So if that's the case and that's the recommendation, this recommendation should really be crafted about because the consultant isn't going to do that. It's about future studies. And so they need to revise their recommendations and roadmap and future studies, recommendations for future studies. Because we want them to look at it in the context of also a general plan amendment, update. And so that's the essence of what we're trying.
00:42:55.43	Bill	Go ahead.
00:42:55.75	Unknown	And so he
00:43:03.91	Unknown	recommendations for future studies. What is the roadmap?
00:43:08.82	Unknown	Thank you.
00:43:11.57	Unknown	Thank you.
00:43:11.59	Unknown	Absolutely.
00:43:13.03	Unknown	that's the essence I think.
00:43:14.51	Unknown	Now you've got a beginning and a middle.
00:43:16.40	Unknown	Right. Okay, so let's try this again, unless you want to give me a whole sentence. No, my view is,
00:43:16.76	Ray	Thank you.
00:43:17.11	Unknown	All right.
00:43:23.03	Ray	Thank you.
00:43:23.17	Unknown	Thank you.
00:43:23.20	Ray	You let Lily look at the table. No, no, no. We have to agree on something.
00:43:24.96	Unknown	No, no. We have to agree on something because what I really want to do here is I want to come up with a sentence, and then I want us to vote on it so we agree so that it doesn't get lost in translation. And next time we get together, we say, oh, I didn't say that. So we're not going to – we've got to finish this.
00:43:29.92	Ray	I, what I really...
00:43:36.06	Unknown	So,
00:43:36.08	Unknown	It doesn't get that.
00:43:44.57	Bill	finish.
00:43:45.04	Ray	Yes.
00:43:45.44	Bill	She's even going to do it that way.
00:43:47.01	Unknown	Yeah, because we're going to do it once.
00:43:47.05	Bill	Yeah.
00:43:47.42	Ray	You're going to do it once. We do have eight tall things. Yeah. Yeah.
00:43:49.43	Unknown	Go ahead. Yeah, yeah, but we gotta go through it. Okay, so the direction for number one is to revise recommendations to examine examine and analyze a marineship planning area
00:44:08.21	Unknown	with its unique characteristics in pursuit of its becoming part of the general plan.
00:44:17.83	Unknown	to be covered under the gun appliance.
00:44:21.98	Leon	Thank you.
00:44:22.40	Unknown	Yeah.
00:44:24.41	Unknown	in pursuit of its being covered under the general plan?
00:44:27.18	Leon	because I think that is what you've all been saying. Okay, okay. I agree with that.
00:44:27.72	Unknown	Thank you.
00:44:30.50	Unknown	Okay, okay. Revised recommendations to examine and analyze the marine ship
00:44:39.78	Unknown	in the marineship planning area, Thank you.
00:44:43.51	Bill	Thank you. And develop the data necessary for incorporation of the general plan. Yeah. That's for us.
00:44:51.70	Unknown	Thank you.
00:44:51.73	Ray	you
00:44:51.78	Unknown	Thank you.
00:44:51.80	Ray	THE END OF THE
00:44:51.85	Unknown	THE END OF THE END OF THE
00:44:51.88	Ray	That's good.
00:44:52.49	Unknown	That's very specific. And develop, do we need to say anything about develop?
00:44:56.62	Mike	Thank you. data necessary.
00:44:59.83	Unknown	the data necessary.
00:45:03.17	Mike	to incorporate.
00:45:08.59	Lily (Staff)	Chair Pichavich, can I ask a question? Yes. So this is further incorporated into the general plan, if I'm hearing the committee correctly, because the range of areas are already incorporated into the general plan. So this is to go steps beyond that.
00:45:10.93	Mike	Thank you.
00:45:11.03	Unknown	Yes.
00:45:27.34	Unknown	See why we need to do this? I'm going to hammer it out. So maybe that's not good language in order to develop the data necessary for it to be covered solely under the general plan.
00:45:40.26	Leon	And I'd like to add something to that because I think it's important. And so those aspects of the specific plan must be supported in the general plan.
00:45:57.19	Unknown	What aspects of this?
00:45:59.77	Leon	It would be development, it would be character changes, it would be residential type changes. I think that's coming up
00:46:08.39	Unknown	I think that's coming up a little bit later. Okay, so we'll talk about those. We have plenty of rounds to do here. Okay, revised recommendations to examine and analyze the marinship planning area
00:46:21.52	Unknown	with consideration towards its unique characteristics and develop the data necessary for it to be covered solely under the general plan. I may like that, and I'm sure everybody can revise it, but just let's try and limit the revisions if they're not really changing the nature of what we're directing them to say.
00:46:44.12	Ray	Yeah. That's written as if we're telling the consultants they've got to do that. That's not what we're saying. We're saying that they're going to come back with not generate the data to do this. They're going to recommend what studies need to get done.
00:46:47.30	Unknown	That's rich.
00:46:57.46	Unknown	I don't know.
00:47:03.83	Ray	Because they're not going to generate the data in the next month. So it's going to allow us to get.
00:47:06.04	Bill	Right. That's really good. So essentially what we're saying in that one sentence, or that very long one sentence, is that... We should really be saying that We put it in positive. We should be saying, recommend that.
00:47:27.82	Unknown	Thank you.
00:47:30.13	Bill	because that's what we're asking you to do.
00:47:32.53	Unknown	Thank you.
00:47:33.47	Mike	recommend necessary steps even. Exactly. Yeah. Recommend unnecessary.
00:47:39.48	Leon	you
00:47:39.53	Unknown	Recommend, unnecessary.
00:47:40.87	Leon	Thank you. .
00:47:42.03	Mike	into?
00:47:42.93	Leon	Thank you.
00:47:43.03	Mike	I'm going to
00:47:43.97	Leon	Thank you.
00:47:44.04	Mike	incorporated into the
00:47:44.97	Leon	Yeah. And to develop.
00:47:46.35	Unknown	Thank you.
00:47:46.40	Adam Carvazzi	Robin, if I may.
00:47:47.09	Unknown	If I may... sure we need another cook anymore
00:47:51.03	Adam Carvazzi	I'm going to try not to, but I think what we're, from staff's perspective, you have in their report 2.6 options for next steps. You're adding, you're basically adding a fifth option.
00:47:51.97	Unknown	Thank you. but
00:48:06.89	Mike	I don't think so. I think we're eliminating the update part. Thank you.
00:48:09.98	Adam Carvazzi	or you're eliminating all four of those and adding this as the option for next step. So it's, you don't have to say recommending because you're saying options for next steps
00:48:10.57	Mike	All right.
00:48:10.97	Unknown	Poor though.
00:48:11.56	Mike	and adding this.
00:48:21.55	Mike	We're trying to come up with a mission to what we're trying to do, basically.
00:48:22.09	Adam Carvazzi	is what you're...
00:48:28.94	Bill	So this basically blows that number one right out of the water. Right.
00:48:32.08	Mike	Right. Exactly.
00:48:33.30	Bill	Yeah, it does.
00:48:33.47	Unknown	Yeah, it does. I mean, I think that's the goal. The goal. Because the general plan is that.
00:48:35.53	Bill	Cool. this. I think they're going to have to think all four of those over again.
00:48:43.73	Unknown	Yeah.
00:48:43.98	Unknown	Thank you.
00:48:44.10	Mike	THE END OF THE END OF THE
00:48:44.18	Bill	Thank you.
00:48:44.33	Mike	I think that's right. They don't apply.
00:48:45.03	Bill	Thank you.
00:48:45.06	Ray	I think that's right. They don't play. Yeah. This is a different quarterback.
00:48:47.20	Mike	This is a different, we're at a different level now.
00:48:50.43	Ray	So we're saying to them, look, we want this done, we're thinking of this in the context of the general plan. Okay, so, and you've given us a road map.
00:49:03.25	Unknown	Mm-hmm.
00:49:03.61	Ray	of how to do a specific targeted update. That's not what we want.
00:49:07.28	Unknown	No.
00:49:07.66	Ray	Now give us the roadmap in this new context, which is the general.
00:49:10.78	Unknown	Yeah.
00:49:12.33	Ray	And so give us the roadmap of the further studies, the data that we need to get, and the steps that we would take, multi-year steps.
00:49:21.09	Mike	And then we can answer these other six or seven questions with our own thoughts about these things. And take them for what they're worth, but consider what we think, and you may have different ideas.
00:49:24.38	Ray	Right. Right.
00:49:27.41	Bill	Thank you.
00:49:33.51	Bill	And it may be productive to actually go through these other seven items before we get absolutely finalized on the first one.
00:49:36.66	Mike	Yeah, I think it is.
00:49:37.91	Unknown	Thank you.
00:49:42.32	Unknown	Okay, so that the roadmap be revised.
00:49:43.82	Mike	Thank you.
00:49:43.84	Bill	to the next one.
00:49:43.97	Mike	Thank you.
00:49:44.09	Bill	Yeah.
00:49:44.49	Mike	Thank you.
00:49:44.56	Bill	Thank you.
00:49:44.66	Mike	of, uh,
00:49:44.73	Bill	THE RECORD IS THE
00:49:44.97	Mike	All right.
00:49:49.62	Unknown	I think what he's saying... Hold on a second. Let me try and finish my train of thought. That the roadmap be revised to reflect an analysis...
00:49:50.42	Mike	Thank you. He's saying,
00:49:51.33	Unknown	Thank you.
00:50:01.64	Unknown	to reflect an analysis. Thank you. The roadmap will be derived to reflect an analysis of the maroon ship planning area Um,
00:50:15.59	Unknown	with consideration to its unique characteristics becoming covered under the general plan.
00:50:23.20	Mike	I think we should answer this. Seven more questions and then come back to this. It'll be clear. I think it will. I think it will be clear.
00:50:24.94	Unknown	question.
00:50:28.66	Unknown	Yeah. You've got to go.
00:50:32.52	Mike	You've got a good start. Now let's go on to the questions.
00:50:35.79	Unknown	Good.
00:50:36.15	Mike	Thank you.
00:50:36.35	Unknown	Thank you.
00:50:36.40	Mike	Thank you.
00:50:36.43	Unknown	Thank you.
00:50:36.49	Mike	Thank you.
00:50:36.53	Unknown	Thank you.
00:50:36.59	Mike	you
00:50:36.65	Unknown	Oh, shit.
00:50:36.96	Mike	Thank you.
00:50:38.75	Unknown	None of them ended up anywhere. Okay. Yeah, so you may want to.
00:50:40.53	Ray	Yeah, so you may want to iterate this. Go on and do the other stuff and then come back. We might all be refreshed and enlightened, Dr. Archer.
00:50:44.48	Unknown	We might all be refreshed and enlightened. further conversation. Well, I'll be speaking the same language. Let's go on to number two then.
00:50:51.35	Bill	Let's go. You know, my comment about that one right off the bat is that it seems to me that the right way to say that is that the parcel-by-parcel zoning approach in the specific plan served its purpose initially and ought to be reanalyzed and with the intention of being eliminated.
00:51:14.01	Mike	Yeah, and see if it has any continuing value, which we suspect it doesn't.
00:51:18.23	Bill	rather than just flat out saying get rid of it because we don't know. I mean, you know, the issue, it seems to me, is that when you look at the parcel by parcel, it's the most glaring thing.
00:51:21.15	Mike	Yeah.
00:51:21.54	Unknown	Thank you.
00:51:29.98	Bill	One down there is Molly Stone's. you know, that parcel, according to a specific plan, can only be a supermarket or a lumber yard. Thanks. Now,
00:51:40.47	Unknown	Yeah.
00:51:40.59	Unknown	Thank you.
00:51:40.76	Unknown	Thank you.
00:51:41.28	Bill	Thank you. That's something kind of weird about that. I mean, I think that it would be important to look at it from a point of view of what is
00:51:43.04	Unknown	Thank you.
00:51:43.06	Unknown	something was Thank you. kind of weird about it.
00:51:46.20	Unknown	Thank you.
00:51:46.21	Unknown	Thank you.
00:51:49.70	Unknown	Combined Supermarket and Lumberyard.
00:51:51.56	Unknown	you
00:51:51.92	Bill	what's valuable to the community. And maybe it ought to just be a supermarket and say, too bad it's a sad. If Molly Stone goes away, we've got to find another supermarket to go in there. Um, Not all number yards.
00:52:05.01	Unknown	on a number yard.
00:52:06.87	Bill	That's right. No, I know. I mean, Gino went away, and so. But, you know, that's why I think that that phrase ought to be. Not so harsh. Not quite as harsh as it is.
00:52:16.59	Tom	you know.
00:52:16.84	Mike	Thank you.
00:52:16.86	Tom	Thank you.
00:52:16.89	Mike	Thank you.
00:52:16.93	Tom	So harsh. Thank you.
00:52:19.22	Bill	Thank you.
00:52:19.29	Tom	Thank you.
00:52:19.30	Bill	Thank you.
00:52:19.41	Tom	Thank you. May I make a comment? Two to eight seem to be specific, very detailed things that we've done. And I think we might want to have one or two paragraphs that says, this is the change in focus of what we want to do. One is that we're shifting focus from a marinship specific plan update to the general plan and whichever language we finally go on, decide on. And secondly, I would like to see them to take a look at, to do that, you need these steps, and it should be done by these parties and potentially these costs. And then we can say, in addition, here are some specific items that we've agreed to, because otherwise it makes it look like this parcel by parcel zoning approach item is as important as the other. These are very detailed. And maybe some of them, like even I think one of them may go away if they re-look at it. That's just my comment. Before we get into all the details of each one, whether we want to look at our general recommendations and then maybe specifically.
00:53:15.04	Unknown	Okay, so general recommendations and specifications. I'm just throwing that out there,
00:53:16.51	Tom	I'm just throwing that out there, but, and I'm a little confused why we're only having these and what happened to everything else and so, out of context.
00:53:23.93	Bill	A lot of content. Thank you. I think these represented the things that we were really talking about in detail. And they may be subheadings under a general heading like the one you're talking about. I think they are worth just discussing at this point, you know, and deciding whether or not they should stay in there and how they should be handled and what we,
00:53:26.60	Tom	you
00:53:30.08	Tom	And they meet.
00:53:31.29	Unknown	We have a great day. Thank you. And I'm not sure.
00:53:46.33	Bill	what we know about them and what we don't know about them.
00:53:48.64	Mike	A good statement is what Bill said. We'd like them to look at the partial bioportial zoning. We suspect it may have served its purpose and could be, therefore, eliminated. But we want them to study that and see if it's true.
00:54:03.84	Unknown	Yeah.
00:54:07.78	Unknown	Yeah.
00:54:08.00	Mike	They may change their mind and decide it should be kept. Who knows? But we think it's sort of gone. And if we have a concurrence, or at least the majority of us think that's true, then we should so say.
00:54:28.65	Ray	I mean, I... personally believe that, well, if you sort of our first discussion about item number one almost leads to number two because you almost can't go on a parcel by parcel basis if you're going to roll it up to the general plan, right? I think the one thing that the consultant is not really
00:54:32.03	Unknown	We'll be right back.
00:54:32.09	Mike	.
00:54:32.16	Unknown	Thank you.
00:54:44.56	Unknown	Thank you.
00:54:52.61	Ray	focused on very much is the fact that If we wanted to consider elevating it above the parcel level, there are some other subdivisions in the marineship that we might want to think about because, you know,
00:55:02.96	Unknown	So.
00:55:07.53	Ray	planning area three or whatever it is. Lily is gonna have to help me out here. But whatever the gate five road area is, is totally different from planning area one, Liberty Ship and so on. And of course the middle is totally different again.
00:55:16.29	Unknown	Thank you.
00:55:16.31	Unknown	you
00:55:16.39	Unknown	.
00:55:24.95	Ray	So I agree that we shouldn't be doing this. I personally think we should, the parcel by parcel has outlived its usefulness, but I wouldn't want to go to the marine ship being regarded as simply homogeneous because it's not. So where we strike that balance is an analysis that needs to be done.
00:55:38.33	Bill	That's right.
00:55:46.75	Unknown	So does that need to be another point, do you feel? No, I'm just elaborating on points.
00:55:49.18	Ray	No, I'm just elaborating on point number two.
00:55:51.32	Tom	Does anybody feel differently about this? Well, I agree with the concept. I'm just kind of, and I might say, you know, the zoning for the marineship should be examined, including two, three, and four, you know, whether we do parcel and parcel, how we define the waterfront. I'm just, there's just something about the randomness of how these are and the level of importance. I mean, I agree with the concept. And I think it's just going to follow naturally. Parcel by parcel, almost any way we do it would be going away. So I'm not too worried about how we phrase that.
00:55:51.84	Unknown	Thank you.
00:55:51.88	Ray	Thank you.
00:56:08.86	Unknown	Thank you.
00:56:08.91	Unknown	Mm-hmm. I mean,
00:56:14.51	Unknown	Thank you.
00:56:14.69	Leon	Thank you.
00:56:21.26	Leon	My question is, why do we need to involve the consultant in that particular activity? Why can't that be done internally through our own...
00:56:28.92	Unknown	Yeah.
00:56:32.89	Leon	Thank you.
00:56:32.95	Unknown	You can't study yourself.
00:56:33.14	Leon	It's good. Thank you.
00:56:33.64	Mike	Thank you.
00:56:33.71	Leon	Thank you.
00:56:33.86	Mike	yourself. . You're not reliable. Yeah, that's what that's...
00:56:37.73	Unknown	I hear you.
00:56:39.03	Unknown	Yeah, that's what that's...
00:56:43.26	Unknown	Thank you.
00:56:43.74	Mike	That's what I'm saying.
00:56:43.79	Unknown	So,
00:56:44.04	Unknown	I believe we are setting goals and a vision for the Marineship area.
00:56:44.06	Mike	I mean, we are.
00:56:46.03	Unknown	We are.
00:56:54.22	Leon	Yeah.
00:56:54.96	Unknown	You know, we have to make some decisions and not just
00:56:59.06	Leon	Well, that's what I'm saying. Tell them how to make decisions. Isn't that a decision? I mean, in our community, it's not the consultants. They're here to help us and try to do their best.
00:57:00.00	Unknown	I taught them how to make decisions. I think so.
00:57:10.33	Leon	How are they going to know better? really If we're trying to separate this out, with some parcel parcel and other no parcel parcel and all of that how are they supposed to figure that out and make us happy
00:57:23.46	Mike	How many? THE END OF THE END OF THE At the end of the day, the planning commission and the city council will decide which they like, which they don't like. The consultants just give you a menu and a panoply of things to look at. And they do it with an eye that's not your eye, because your eye and my eye see the same thing sometimes day after day after day, and it's really hard to move us off our position until somebody goes with a wake-up call. Consultants are supposed to give us little wake-up calls, if you will, to examine, along with all the other things that we know and trust. We may look at the wake-up calls and say, yeah, but I don't like that. So that's up to our planning commission. Getting back. And residents, for that matter, to come down and speak their minds.
00:57:26.48	Leon	Thank you.
00:57:30.24	Leon	Exactly. The consultants just need to
00:58:04.63	Unknown	Getting back.
00:58:06.49	Unknown	that one.
00:58:09.05	Unknown	Getting back to what we need to try and do tonight is make – I mean, ultimately, these are things that – There are specific points that we would like to see as recommendations in their report that they will be presenting to the Planning Commission and the City Council. Is that correct? Yeah. Agree on that? Yeah. So I think they probably need to be kind of – this is what the memo is about. So let's recommend that.
00:58:24.92	Unknown	Thank you.
00:58:25.04	Bill	Yeah.
00:58:25.15	Unknown	Agree on that.
00:58:25.80	Bill	Yeah.
00:58:26.45	Unknown	Thank you.
00:58:33.34	Unknown	The roadmap be revised to... consider general plan inclusion. I, as point number one, recommend that parcel by parcel zoning be examined with the consideration that it has served its purpose and has no place in future. Uh...
00:58:53.69	Mike	May die.
00:58:54.03	Unknown	May not be appropriate.
00:58:56.76	Mike	may not be appropriate. May not be useful anymore.
00:58:59.51	Unknown	and may not be useful.
00:59:01.16	Bill	you in future zoning. It may not even have been legal in the first place. True. It's a spot zoning.
00:59:09.20	Mike	True.
00:59:10.65	Unknown	Spuds are exactly right.
00:59:11.04	Mike	Exactly.
00:59:12.37	Bill	So.
00:59:12.71	Unknown	Thank you.
00:59:14.12	Mike	right
00:59:15.26	Unknown	Okay, so number two, let me see if we can kind of get through number two and just see if we can knock one out.
00:59:15.86	Unknown	I mean, I don't know.
00:59:16.17	Bill	Thank you.
00:59:21.28	Unknown	You just need it. THE END OF THE END OF THE Yeah.
00:59:23.29	Unknown	We recommend that...
00:59:23.32	Unknown	We recommend, okay, so recommend.
00:59:27.24	Unknown	I recommend that We examined parcel by parcel zoning with a consideration that it serves its purpose and may not be useful in future marine ship zoning.
00:59:36.42	Unknown	Okay.
00:59:37.78	Unknown	Does everybody agree?
00:59:39.44	Unknown	Thank you.
00:59:39.49	Unknown	Yep. Those in agreement, please, I guess. We want to have a vote on this. We'd like to have a formal vote on this.
00:59:44.64	Mike	We want to have a vote on this. We'd like to have a formal vote on this. Would that state it? I concur. Great. So you have unanimous consent.
00:59:54.56	Unknown	Do you have unanimous consent on this one? Okay, so we just want to kind of get it on record here so that we don't have to come back to it language-wise.
00:59:55.11	Mike	And this is all the work. want to kind of go. I'll come back to it.
01:00:00.55	Unknown	language-wise.
01:00:01.12	Mike	Thank you. Thank you.
01:00:02.14	Unknown	Is that recorded? Yeah. Okay. Okay, next item, number three.
01:00:05.91	Unknown	Yeah.
01:00:09.88	Unknown	Okay.
01:00:13.96	Unknown	A study should be conducted to examine the waterfront industrial boundary lines and that the boundary lines should potentially be shifted toward to provide a waterfront zone that is fair for all parcels along the waterfront. For example, the waterfront zone should begin X feet from the shoreline. I'm going to ask staff to give us a little bit of context here on the intent before we try and do that ourselves. We'll get a little bit further. Thank you. Thank you.
01:00:41.66	Lily (Staff)	So this was the discussion that you had at your last meeting about whether or not there should be a look at where the boundary is between the waterfront and the industrial zoning districts and the marine ship and if there should be some sort of standardized boundary line. And so the example that was given at the meeting and it's given in this memo is if we should look at maybe X feet away from the shoreline, that's where the industrial zoning district begins.
01:01:12.98	Bill	You know, this is something that seems to me to be eminently reasonable, but I think all we're doing is saying to the consultant that that one of their recommendations ought to be that the the defining separation between the waterfront and industrial boundary zoning boundary lines ought to be analyzed for a a more equitable and reasonable approach
01:01:46.30	Mike	Salvation.
01:01:47.22	Bill	Thank you. Delineation. Right. Or something to that effect. Right, right. Yeah, so that,
01:01:48.57	Mike	All right.
01:01:52.99	Mike	.
01:01:53.04	Unknown	Thank you.
01:01:53.07	Unknown	I'm sorry.
01:01:53.39	Unknown	Thank you.
01:01:53.41	Unknown	Thank you.
01:01:53.43	Unknown	Thank you.
01:01:57.49	Bill	so that the waterfront zone really does protect what we are intending it to protect.
01:02:03.25	Unknown	The Press. One thing about that is that Thank you. Tony, can you turn the mic on?
01:02:09.61	Unknown	Attorney, can you turn the mic on?
01:02:10.66	Unknown	of the nation.
01:02:11.97	Unknown	Thank you.
01:02:15.67	Tony Badger	Okay, yeah, one problem with that is the waterfront, the water level is going to be rising. So that zone or that distance X over time is going to shift. And I don't know if we want to mention that or at least recognize that as something is actually, something is now a verifiable fact.
01:02:35.75	Bill	That, I think, would be part of the analysis. And if it says that... that line shall be adjusted um every 10 years as per however many millimeters the sea level rises.
01:02:51.16	Unknown	Thank you.
01:02:51.31	Unknown	As ever.
01:02:51.83	Unknown	Thank you.
01:02:51.93	Unknown	Thank you.
01:02:53.45	Unknown	Thank you.
01:02:53.47	Unknown	So,
01:02:53.55	Unknown	Thank you.
01:02:53.59	Unknown	.
01:02:56.28	Unknown	Thank you.
01:02:56.30	Mike	is there.
01:02:56.67	Unknown	Thank you.
01:02:57.26	Mike	Thank you. .
01:02:57.47	Unknown	Thank you.
01:02:57.52	Mike	you know. for the need for a boat.
01:02:58.97	Bill	Thank you.
01:02:59.22	Mike	Yes.
01:02:59.27	Unknown	Thank you.
01:02:59.39	Bill	Yeah.
01:02:59.71	Tony Badger	I think it needs to be addressed. Or at least recognized.
01:02:60.00	Mike	Thank you. or at least recognize. You'd be part of the study. Yeah.
01:03:03.89	Leon	Thank you.
01:03:04.76	Bill	Yeah.
01:03:06.39	Leon	you And then how do you handle the property owners? And how do you handle the shoreline right of ways and the bicycle paths and things like that? I mean, you have to take into consideration, of course, legal rights or zoning areas that exist right now that property owners are relying on. And I think that those are issues that need to be taken into consideration.
01:03:23.84	Unknown	you
01:03:36.03	Bill	MR. As according to the Supreme Court, you don't have to deal with it if you don't take away all of their potential economic – MR. Well, I'm not saying that.
01:03:45.29	Leon	Thank you.
01:03:45.34	Unknown	Thank you.
01:03:45.36	Leon	Well, I'm not trying to be an enemy with the people who own most of the property down there. No, but that's not what we're doing. What I'm looking at is we have a Marinship. It's an important area. It needs to be protected, and it needs some help down there. But we also need to finally rebuild a relationship with the property owners
01:03:49.71	Bill	Thank you.
01:03:49.78	Unknown	Thank you.
01:03:49.80	Bill	No, but that's not what we're doing.
01:04:10.35	Leon	so that we can work through these issues because they're all intertwined. I mean, you talk about infrastructure, you talk about this, how many fights do you want to have with the property owners
01:04:16.31	Unknown	Oh, this guy.
01:04:21.37	Leon	when you could just get along and work them out together. So I'm not saying the lines shouldn't be changed, but I'm saying we need to be really sensitive about what we're doing. We already have an issue with the housing element and how property can be taken away, and it's not even termed eminent domain.
01:04:34.65	Unknown	Well, I think there's...
01:04:44.34	Leon	So, you know, come on, let's just try to work together and make this a compatible approach.
01:04:48.69	Bill	Thank you.
01:04:51.49	Unknown	So there are different ways to, I mean, I think where this comes from in the last discussion that we had is the idea that it's important to preserve the, the waterfront around water related uses, things that can only be on the water.
01:05:09.90	Unknown	Thank you.
01:05:13.31	Unknown	I don't know if anybody can correct me if they feel differently. But I think then there's different ways to write this that can be a lot more positive about that. I think one has to state the goal as opposed to, of course, if you just say, let's recommend to move boundary lines around, that's, of course, people can interpret that however they want, and you haven't made a lot of progress. But maybe you could say something like, you know, with the intent of preserving waterfront uses for water-related activities, analyze, recommend that boundary lines between W and I be analyzed and adjusted to create more objective and equitable delineation and Well, let's do another thing.
01:06:00.93	Mike	for The only problem I have with that is that we're now telling them what we want them to conclude, and we don't know. So how do you want to know? We really need them to study the idea of separating the water from the land at some point based on their best information that they could gather.
01:06:06.09	Unknown	It includes and we don't know. So how do you want it? We really need to know.
01:06:10.09	Unknown	I think what there is for the world.
01:06:18.94	Leon	Thank you.
01:06:22.53	Unknown	So do we need to revise that or not?
01:06:22.55	Mike	Uh, so...
01:06:22.73	Leon	Thank you.
01:06:22.77	Leon	So, yeah. If it were done right, it would already be set in use of.
01:06:27.86	Mike	Yeah. So when we don't.
01:06:29.62	Leon	We're trying to establish, partially I think, what are the use lines right there? What are the boundary lines that we're sitting? Because they might be the most logical ones. Whether they go on a property line or split it off property line. What are they really being used?
01:06:36.89	Unknown	Thank you.
01:06:36.91	Mike	Yeah.
01:06:37.20	Unknown	Thank you.
01:06:39.41	Mike	Right. Thank you. Yeah.
01:06:44.42	Unknown	Thank you.
01:06:45.65	Mike	We probably have, as Paul Albritton used to say, whenever two Sausalenians get together, they have at least three opinions. You probably have eight or nine opinions here about what that all ought to be, but that would be getting in the way of the study that's going to go on. It's going to be objective as best it can be and with some recommendations.
01:07:02.15	Unknown	I guess that's... Just let Tom have a comment.
01:07:04.94	Mike	Thank you.
01:07:05.09	Tom	The only thing I'd say, well, one is I don't know about a study. I mean, I would write it. And I would get rid of the fairness because they're doing more than just, I'd just say the waterfront industrial boundary lines Um, And the boundary lines, they have that twice. The waterfront and industrial bonding lines should be Oh, no, I'm sorry. I got this. one of them boundary lines should be analyzed to determine if the line should be adjusted in the new plan.
01:07:27.31	Unknown	should be answered.
01:07:30.98	Tom	I would just say that like that. Sorry. You know, because we don't want to say the fairness. And I know about a whole study. We just want them to analyze whether we need to adjust these lines.
01:07:32.09	Unknown	Thank you.
01:07:32.16	Adam Carvazzi	Yeah.
01:07:32.17	Unknown	Yeah.
01:07:32.22	Adam Carvazzi	Bye.
01:07:32.39	Unknown	Thank you.
01:07:32.43	Adam Carvazzi	Thank you.
01:07:32.46	Unknown	Thank you.
01:07:32.75	Adam Carvazzi	Yeah.
01:07:32.76	Unknown	I-
01:07:33.03	Mike	I'm sorry.
01:07:34.32	Unknown	Thank you.
01:07:41.03	Mike	You could ask, keeping in mind the interests of the various landowners. Well, but it's all of it, I mean. Yeah, but because, you know. Okay. But, I mean, I think it's fine where you drew it, frankly. Because they're just looking at all those other factors come into play.
01:07:46.87	Tom	Thank you.
01:07:46.99	Adam Carvazzi	Bye.
01:07:47.02	Tom	But it's all of it. Yeah, okay. Amen. But...
01:07:50.99	Unknown	Bye.
01:07:51.04	Unknown	Thank you.
01:07:53.77	Tom	because they're just looking at
01:07:55.02	Bill	All those other factors come into play. There's fairness, there's property onerance, there's use, there's. Don't forget, we're not asking this consultant to do this in this round. This is part of what their recommendations should be.
01:07:56.63	Tom	There's fairness, there's property onerous, there's use
01:08:04.52	Unknown	All right.
01:08:04.61	Tom	Yeah.
01:08:04.74	Unknown	Thank you.
01:08:04.83	Tom	Right.
01:08:05.28	Unknown	All right. So Tom, help me out here again. Recommend that analysis be done.
01:08:09.26	Bill	Yeah.
01:08:09.28	Tom	Okay, so I see. I would just get rid of it. The waterfront industrial boundary lines should be analyzed. I'm just getting rid of a lot of words. To determine if the line should be adjusted in the new plan.
01:08:17.36	Unknown	to determine
01:08:20.67	Tom	I would just have it. Does anybody disagree with that? I was telling them, otherwise we have to put a lot of detail in this. Okay. I just can't listen to that.
01:08:23.59	Unknown	Does anyone disagree with that?
01:08:28.25	Unknown	It's just kind of simple. Does everybody, does anybody disagree with that statement?
01:08:32.27	Mike	Well,
01:08:33.90	Unknown	Thank you.
01:08:33.94	Mike	And I don't think you need four. But if you say that, you don't need four. Four is incorporated in three.
01:08:33.97	Unknown	Everybody is agreeing it?
01:08:38.80	Bill	That's not true. You want to do it? No, because. Okay, so we're done with three. Because four addresses the water side and the land side. And, you know, I think that we have.
01:08:38.86	Unknown	Thank you.
01:08:39.19	Unknown	Thank you.
01:08:40.87	Unknown	No.
01:08:51.76	Bill	stumbled on occasion at that at that stuff that's over the water, or that's in the water. And we do have those underwater lots. Joe Lemon's property is the perfect example. Part of it is in the I zone, part of it is in the W zone, part of it is underwater. you know, we that gets mushy. I think that we ought to be able to look at having a zone that in fact is in the water.
01:09:27.53	Unknown	Thank you.
01:09:27.55	Leon	Thank you.
01:09:27.56	Unknown	Thank you.
01:09:27.63	Leon	Thank you. You mean as opposed to, let's say, just on land but on the water?
01:09:33.20	Bill	Yeah, the W zone should be the wet side and the dry side.
01:09:39.26	Mike	Thank you. Bye, Rick.
01:09:40.66	Bill	.
01:09:40.83	Mike	I'm just good.
01:09:42.85	Bill	I think that was one thing that was left out of the poll planning process in the first place.
01:09:48.59	Unknown	I didn't really know what I wanted to do.
01:09:51.04	Unknown	Thank you.
01:09:51.46	Unknown	not really as as
01:09:52.86	Bill	As a zoning issue. It was covered by use and by number of slips and by this and that and so on and so forth, but it didn't have its own
01:09:55.32	Unknown	to the community.
01:09:55.51	Unknown	Thank you.
01:10:05.77	Bill	set of zoning regulations.
01:10:09.64	Tony Badger	Do we really know what the waterfront is? I mean, when we say the waterfront boundary and industrial boundary lines, You know, I mean, you can determine the waterfront a lot of different ways. I don't know if we ought to be more specific.
01:10:26.54	Bill	That's the question we need to ask them, or we ask the consultants to ask.
01:10:29.06	Unknown	THE END OF THE END OF THE
01:10:32.89	Bill	whoever their consultants may be.
01:10:33.48	Unknown	You tell us, and then we'll see if we agree with you.
01:10:34.71	Bill	Thank you. you
01:10:36.48	Unknown	Thank you.
01:10:39.98	Ray	I'm struggling a bit with seeing how you already take a very thin strip and divide it in two again. you're really then creating another, what you're suggesting is creating another zone. I'm not necessarily discreeting with that, but, um,
01:10:53.85	Leon	But
01:10:59.06	Leon	then you have a lot of additional oversight issues that could come about, too. Well, let's not forget that at the end of the day,
01:11:04.49	Mike	Well, let's not forget that at the end of the day, BCDC controls what you put 100 feet from the shore. Yeah, that's right. So there is that in place already.
01:11:09.19	Leon	Yeah. Thank you.
01:11:10.47	Bill	All right.
01:11:14.00	Mike	Um...
01:11:14.42	Leon	Thank you.
01:11:14.44	Mike	Thank you.
01:11:14.50	Leon	I don't see a need for having that waterfront zone split. Now, I think Bill makes the point in the sense of the water-waterbound side, but certainly not splitting the land side into two. Thank you.
01:11:30.23	Bill	I'm not talking about splitting the land
01:11:30.30	Leon	I'm not saying about it. .
01:11:31.97	Bill	No, no. No. I'm just saying that we are ignoring the underwater lots.
01:11:32.31	Leon	Ooh. I don't know.
01:11:38.03	Unknown	Thank you.
01:11:38.04	Unknown	THE FAMILY.
01:11:41.11	Bill	in this zoning. in reality. And somebody ought to ask the question, If I owned a piece of property that had a whole bunch of underwater lots and I wanted to go out there and drive a bunch of pilings and build a... Could you do that? Whatever. If I could get BCDC to agree to it, then what are you going to do about it?
01:11:58.36	Unknown	Could you do that?
01:12:06.55	Adam Carvazzi	I'm not sure.
01:12:06.71	Bill	Thank you.
01:12:08.47	Unknown	How about this? Examine the definition of the waterfront building.
01:12:17.09	Mike	Thank you.
01:12:17.12	Bill	Well,
01:12:18.91	Mike	You could say examine and see what role waterfront zones should or shouldn't play. examine the role that they should play and use only considerations for blah, blah, blah. Something like that.
01:12:33.56	Unknown	So I just want to remind everybody that, you know, item four is in here, but it doesn't have to be.
01:12:38.45	Mike	Yeah.
01:12:39.16	Ray	Now, I'm trying to tease out from this what would the advantage be. I mean, obviously you're seeing something there. So what would be, there's no point doing it just for the sake of it, right? It's because you've got something in mind.
01:12:44.43	Unknown	I mean, obviously,
01:12:47.30	Unknown	So what we do. Thank you.
01:12:51.64	Bill	There's no you've got something in mind. That's actually a rather small part of it. Look at all of that stuff up there. All those places where all the boats are. That's what I'm talking about.
01:13:01.68	Unknown	you I'm not sure.
01:13:10.03	Bill	What zone is that and how is it controlled and what do we do with it?
01:13:11.70	Mike	Thank you.
01:13:13.66	Unknown	Thank you. sits out in the water. What do we call it?
01:13:15.80	Bill	We'll be right back.
01:13:15.88	Tom	Without the words, I think, though, rather than talking about splitting
01:13:17.60	Unknown	Thank you.
01:13:17.67	Bill	Thank you.
01:13:17.77	Unknown	the job.
01:13:18.38	Bill	It's goody.
01:13:19.26	Unknown	Thank you.
01:13:19.28	Bill	Thank you.
01:13:20.12	Tom	The waterfront zone, I think we, because I think this is an important point, but I think rather than looking at
01:13:26.40	Unknown	Uh,
01:13:26.62	Tom	as splitting a waterfront zone, we should examine the underground The land that's under the water, how we should zone that and how we should treat that. It's a little bit different. Because this kind of argues that we're going to split the two. But I think it's a good point because we own, you know, there are streets out there. I know. We should be considering that. So.
01:13:39.05	Bill	I'm sorry. But I think it's a good thing.
01:13:45.94	Bill	Yeah. So let's drop the business of saying the land side waterfront and the water side waterfront and just simply leave waterfront where it is, which means it's waterfront, means it's on land anyway, and come up with another definition, if there isn't one already, for the water.
01:13:52.59	Unknown	Thank you.
01:13:52.60	Adam Carvazzi	Thank you.
01:13:52.74	Unknown	THE END OF THE END OF THE
01:13:57.63	Unknown	Thank you.
01:13:57.84	Ray	Thank you.
01:13:57.92	Unknown	Thank you.
01:14:05.75	Ray	Can I ask Lily a question? Where does... Doesn't the waterfront zone extend and cover the lots that are underwater, the parcels that are underwater?
01:14:18.15	Lily (Staff)	some of them so if you can look at them up here the light blue line this is the extent of the industrial zone so for you know this area right here so you can see for this particular parcel. Part of it is on land and part of it is is in water. in the waterfront zone. This out here, if this is what you're looking at, this is open area, I believed, zoned. No, the red line right here is the city of Sausalito.
01:14:48.04	Unknown	So this is this is on the city right here
01:14:48.43	Lily (Staff)	So this is all in the city right here? But it's not zoned waterfront. Right. It's zoned open area, I think. I have to confirm.
01:14:50.15	Ray	Okay.
01:14:50.37	Unknown	Yeah.
01:14:51.53	Ray	but it's not.
01:14:51.89	Unknown	Thank you.
01:14:51.90	Ray	I don't know. Right. Thank you. Okay, so that's it.
01:14:59.56	Leon	Yeah.
01:15:00.04	Unknown	Okay, so maybe, so if this is an important point, maybe we should be recommending that... underwater lots be examined to determine appropriate zoning.
01:15:12.56	Unknown	Yes.
01:15:12.85	Leon	Yeah. Well, in fact, I think if my mind still remembers correctly, that there were. Thank you. moments in the past when property owners and the city came to discussions about swapping land. So I think that that's another reason why there is something. Yeah, Gossage had a whole plan.
01:15:36.69	Mike	Gossage had a plan to put all kinds of piers out there in boat docks and stuff.
01:15:41.57	Leon	So, And
01:15:42.97	Mike	Yeah, the little problem was he couldn't get across the streets. Yeah.
01:15:43.56	Leon	Yeah.
01:15:47.57	Leon	Yeah. But he's not the first one to hear. I'm sure he wasn't.
01:15:49.97	Mike	I'm sure he would.
01:15:51.07	Unknown	Okay, so we want to keep this in there, and we want to say that I recommend to examine underwater lots to...
01:15:52.01	Mike	Thank you.
01:15:52.06	Leon	We want to see.
01:16:01.78	Unknown	Recommend to... Analyze status of underwater lots to determine appropriate zoning.
01:16:06.35	Mike	to. Including, I think we should say the water
01:16:12.77	Unknown	I recommend to include
01:16:14.24	Mike	I think the waterfront zone or borderline or something should be the larger parcel, but you also want to look specifically at the plot. Okay.
01:16:14.73	Unknown	you
01:16:15.94	Unknown	Underwater loss too. I'm not sure.
01:16:25.39	Mike	Because they're incorporated in the same thing. They're not just, they're not separate. They're part of.
01:16:32.61	Leon	Same owner, you mean?
01:16:33.93	Mike	No, just in general as a class. Yeah, I don't know. Part of the water.
01:16:33.95	Leon	.
01:16:34.03	Bill	THE END OF THE END OF THE
01:16:34.23	Leon	No, just...
01:16:34.98	Bill	Thank you.
01:16:35.04	Leon	Thank you. Thank you.
01:16:36.80	Bill	Yeah, I don't know. More than water. I don't think a zoning ordinance can worry about who owns it. Right. just can't do that.
01:16:46.25	Unknown	But can't you include underwater blocks in the waterfront zone? Yeah, that's what I was saying. Yeah.
01:16:51.55	Mike	That's what I've said. Yeah. That's what I've said.
01:16:53.03	Tony Badger	Thank you.
01:16:53.32	Unknown	Okay.
01:16:53.98	Tony Badger	make that a more comprehensive definition of the waterfront zone, including the underwater
01:16:58.70	Mike	Exactly. Study the waterfront zone, include the undercut. Thank you.
01:17:03.63	Unknown	Yeah.
01:17:04.15	Unknown	OK.
01:17:07.88	Unknown	What's our summary here? Mike or Tony? as you guys just said, I recommend to include underwater lots as part of
01:17:21.99	Unknown	the definition of the life-run world
01:17:22.11	Unknown	Thank you.
01:17:28.08	Ray	I mean, there's sort of two concepts on the table. Extend the water supply. front zone to all of the underwater lots. And the second concept is, is there some Is the zoning of all of the water lots sufficiently different than the waterfront? How about that? Such that you might want to consider a different zoning. So how about recommend to include all that?
01:17:48.33	Unknown	Okay, how about...
01:17:54.22	Unknown	So how about recommend to include underwater lots? with an appropriate
01:17:59.03	Bill	the corporate zone.
01:17:59.50	Unknown	Anything else?
01:18:00.02	Bill	Thank you.
01:18:00.18	Unknown	Thank you.
01:18:00.33	Bill	you My only concern about that is that the W zone allows buildings in it. and so does that mean that the bones can be built out there in the water too so yeah
01:18:09.27	Unknown	Thank you.
01:18:09.34	Ray	Thank you.
01:18:09.36	Unknown	Thank you.
01:18:09.48	Ray	Thank you.
01:18:09.63	Unknown	and, uh,
01:18:09.68	Ray	Exactly.
01:18:10.03	Unknown	Yeah.
01:18:10.15	Ray	Yeah.
01:18:10.32	Unknown	Right.
01:18:11.20	Ray	.
01:18:13.42	Unknown	No, I...
01:18:14.08	Bill	Bye.
01:18:14.10	Unknown	I'm not.
01:18:14.12	Bill	I was.
01:18:14.39	Unknown	So
01:18:14.59	Bill	Right.
01:18:14.62	Unknown	I see where you're going. So I recommend to include underwater lots with inappropriate zoning analysis.
01:18:14.67	Bill	I see what you're saying. Yeah.
01:18:19.55	Bill	Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's fine. Yeah, yeah, that's fine. We just don't want to bring the appropriate analysis. Yeah.
01:18:20.93	Unknown	Thank you.
01:18:21.03	Unknown	That's fine.
01:18:21.71	Unknown	Yeah.
01:18:22.03	Unknown	That's fine. We just don't want to do that. Okay, appropriate analysis. That's right. I just don't. Okay, anybody disagree with that statement? Right? Not anymore. That doesn't sound very definitive. No, it's good. Okay. All right, so it seems like we have a consensus then on number four to include it. It's recommended to include underwater loss within appropriate zoning analysis.
01:18:28.27	Bill	And...
01:18:28.49	Tom	They went right when it was.
01:18:29.45	Unknown	Mark.
01:18:29.98	Unknown	Thank you.
01:18:30.03	Unknown	Thank you.
01:18:30.15	Tom	.
01:18:30.97	Unknown	Not even. Bye. That is a good one.
01:18:43.49	Lily (Staff)	Just for clarification, the underwater lots you're specifically referring to are in what's called the open space or OA zone of the Marinship Pacific Plant, which is out in here. I'm pointing on the map.
01:18:58.94	Unknown	Thank you.
01:18:58.95	Bill	Actually, in my view, it includes all of that area that you say now is within the line that is in the W zone. And I think that that probably is wrong.
01:18:59.24	Unknown	Bye.
01:19:06.85	Unknown	a line that is...
01:19:11.96	Bill	that the W zone ought to stop at the shoreline. and that that everything that's out there in the water. So you mean the marine is? Absolutely. Everything that's out there in the water needs to be looked at because it's in the water. It's not an onion. Well, I think that's a good point from this.
01:19:20.81	Unknown	Yeah.
01:19:21.02	Leon	Everything is...
01:19:22.04	Unknown	Bye.
01:19:22.17	Leon	Thank you.
01:19:27.79	Leon	you
01:19:27.88	Bill	Thank you.
01:19:27.98	Leon	If you look at, you don't want to have buildings out there, but you're allowing docks. So what are you going to allow on those docks? Is there going to be a gas station essentially there? What are you going to put? Well, essentially, that's already decided. That's to be decided. Well, essentially, it is part of the ownership specific.
01:19:32.18	Unknown	Mm.
01:19:41.06	Ray	Thank you.
01:19:41.09	Unknown	That's to be decided.
01:19:43.05	Bill	Yeah.
01:19:43.06	Unknown	Thank you.
01:19:43.10	Bill	Thank you.
01:19:43.15	Unknown	Thank you.
01:19:43.16	Bill	Thank you.
01:19:43.18	Unknown	to be here.
01:19:43.42	Bill	Peace.
01:19:43.50	Unknown	Thank you.
01:19:43.54	Bill	.
01:19:43.60	Unknown	Well, what's interesting is it's actually it is part of the ownership-specific plan already because it already calls for gas stations, club stations, et cetera.
01:19:48.11	Leon	Because it already calls for gas stations, club stations, etc. There will be some improvements out there and they will be included in this evaluation. Absolutely.
01:19:57.69	Unknown	Absolutely. I believe we can still keep number four as it is. Yeah.
01:20:00.65	Leon	Yeah.
01:20:01.36	Unknown	Yeah, sure. Thank you.
01:20:02.72	Unknown	Thank you.
01:20:02.74	Unknown	Thank you.
01:20:02.79	Unknown	Thank you.
01:20:02.94	Unknown	Thank you.
01:20:02.99	Unknown	Thank you.
01:20:03.23	Unknown	within the boundary lines Because we're looking at a specific plan area, planning area anyway, so I think it's a given that that's the direction.
01:20:14.23	Lily (Staff)	Just for clarification, when you say include underwater lots with an appropriate zoning analysis, what are you including the underwater lots in? The waterfront zone?
01:20:26.10	Unknown	No, within a zoning analysis.
01:20:33.03	Lily (Staff)	Thank you.
01:20:33.05	Unknown	I'm a little unclear as to what that means.
01:20:33.08	Lily (Staff)	I'm a little unclear as to what that means.
01:20:34.82	Leon	Is that what you mean?
01:20:36.17	Unknown	Thank you. It means that we recommend that the underwater lots be included as part of appropriate zoning analysis to be done, that they not be forgotten as something to not be thought about, because right now they're not part of any kind of planning zone. Some of them are not. Some are, some are not.
01:20:55.36	Leon	some of it. Welcome. Everything in the water. from the shoreline going out is essentially a way, isn't it,
01:21:07.09	Unknown	Not necessarily.
01:21:07.15	Leon	and I said,
01:21:07.51	Unknown	Some of it is already in W. Some of it's in W.
01:21:09.11	Unknown	Ready. That's the point. Thank you.
01:21:15.56	Unknown	So the recommendation is that they be part of the analysis.
01:21:19.45	Mike	Thank you.
01:21:19.47	Unknown	Thank you. Sure.
01:21:19.57	Mike	you
01:21:19.72	Unknown	you Simply that.
01:21:21.97	Mike	Thank you.
01:21:21.98	Unknown	Thank you.
01:21:22.00	Mike	Why would you leave them out of the study?
01:21:22.86	Unknown	out of the study. Yes, so they do not get left out.
01:21:24.35	Mike	Thank you.
01:21:24.47	Unknown	Yeah.
01:21:26.10	Mike	That's right.
01:21:28.50	Adam Carvazzi	Thank you.
01:21:28.52	Unknown	It reads it.
01:21:28.99	Mike	Thank you.
01:21:30.31	Lily (Staff)	I'm still unclear. I'm sorry to be.
01:21:31.45	Mike	I'm sorry to be. The red line is the city of Sausalito's boundaries, right? That's correct. Correct. Everything inside the city of Sausalito's boundaries should have a study, including the water. So that's really what we're trying to accomplish, the study of the water and the uses thereon and so on. That needs to be a part of our general plan. The sentences, the direction is.
01:21:34.39	Lily (Staff)	That's correct. The values, right? Correct.
01:21:42.39	Unknown	Yeah.
01:21:42.62	Unknown	Thank you.
01:21:52.26	Unknown	The sentences, the direction is the recommendation, the way it's written is not trying to be getting too much detail here. It's just basically trying to say don't forget about it.
01:21:58.93	Adam Carvazzi	Thank you. I don't think it's on the table. I think I'm trying to make sure it just gets included. Got it.
01:22:04.75	Unknown	Understood.
01:22:05.42	Mike	Okay. Thank you.
01:22:06.06	Adam Carvazzi	you
01:22:06.23	Mike	Thank you. Can you really build housing?
01:22:11.56	Unknown	Sure.
01:22:14.30	Mike	Thank you.
01:22:14.40	Unknown	.
01:22:14.75	Mike	Thank you.
01:22:14.90	Unknown	Okay, we're checked off number four. How about number – Bye. Number five. Thank you.
01:22:24.29	Tom	I think we should consider five and six together at a minimum because they're talking about unforeseen uses in the Marin shed.
01:22:24.34	Unknown	numbers.
01:22:32.57	Unknown	I agree that we should consider them together. And I think that where this came from in the last discussion was that I believe where we came to that was at the waterfront
01:22:35.22	Tom	I don't think-
01:22:35.63	Unknown	Thank you.
01:22:45.04	Unknown	. area needs to be a little more tightly I guess tightly controlled in terms of the planning and allowable uses. And the industrial, the zone, there's a little bit more flexibility to look at potential uses, while there were certain things that we would probably not want to see there at all. So, you know, the direction of the consultants, take a look at I. There's some flexibility there, but don't go. It's not a totally free area to look at for anything under the sun. Does that make sense? Does everybody recall that being the place we ended up?
01:23:28.65	Bill	Yeah, it makes sense as the place we ended up, and I'm not sure that it was. a very logical process that we got there. But, I mean, you know, you can't plan for unforeseen future uses. It just doesn't really work. I mean, you can say that we should have the flexibility to deal with Um... examine, you know, but, you know, providing within any zoning ordinance the flexibility to deal with unforeseen future uses just doesn't Fly, I don't think. Because they don't know what they are. Yeah, because you don't know what they are, so you know how to deal with them. Try it. Yeah. See what happens. Yeah, I know. But it seems to me to be something that one
01:24:14.08	Unknown	I don't think...
01:24:15.55	Unknown	Thank you.
01:24:15.56	Unknown	you know what
01:24:21.06	Unknown	and Yeah.
01:24:28.42	Mike	I think if you take out the word unforeseen future uses and you say examine to see if there's flexibility or to encourage innovation and accommodate other uses instead of Just because you look at them doesn't mean you have to agree with them and you might throw them out. But, gee, we have very narrow thinking about the ownership, all of us. Even the most opportunistic person had a limited view of the ownership. It's usually their parcel. So let's see what the consultants might come up with as possibilities. We can reject out of hand if we don't like them. The community can reject them out of hand. The planning commission can be ribbed. But if we don't look at them, we fail to really cast our net far enough. We really need to think about it. Just because what's there is there doesn't mean there isn't something else that would be even more better.
01:24:46.98	Bill	You know, where we're just...
01:24:48.13	Unknown	Thank you.
01:24:48.15	Bill	Thank you.
01:24:48.16	Unknown	Thank you.
01:25:29.47	Unknown	Can't a new use in the future make an application to do something?
01:25:36.76	Mike	Not necessarily. If you draw your boundaries too tightly, then you're limited. And we'll talk about that in a minute with the applied art thing, because I have some ideas about that as well. That you can strangle something by limiting the uses. So let's, I mean, this is a time to let our biases stand on the sideline for a while and try to see what we can discern another viewpoint, a study might reveal that we haven't thought about.
01:25:48.04	Unknown	Yeah.
01:26:09.92	Unknown	So we're really talking about number six here. We're talking about uses in the industrial zone.
01:26:15.31	Mike	more than W. I'm following this. Somebody said let's put six and five together. We could easily do that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
01:26:15.49	Unknown	More than W.
01:26:20.06	Unknown	support you on
01:26:21.36	Tom	Yeah, we could... I'd like to get clear of what we're trying to do. If you define things, like if you define arts or marine industry, I mean, some of that accommodates new and future uses in that area. If you just say some other future uses, then it just leaves it wide open. It's undefined. We really can't go there. So I think the key is now maybe In the Marinship Pacific Plan, it was a little bit overly defined in the particular categories, If you define it, I think it's normally defined in the categories appropriately, it will Uh, provide for these future uses in that area. And I don't think we can leave an open-ended idea that we might want to go for you know, space design, you know, technology in the future. We'd have to change our, I think we'd have to change the zoning at that point.
01:27:13.76	Unknown	Well, how about if something like if, let me just take five for example, would it make more sense to rewrite this as saying, the uses listed in waterfront zones should be examined to see if there can be flexibility added However, within the context of any new use, should only be those that need a water location to support the Working Waterfront or need public waterfront access.
01:27:35.92	Bill	I'm okay with that. I think that takes the...
01:27:39.50	Unknown	Because it frames it around water-related uses, and it's really about creating this framework for that. Absolutely. And maybe the same kind of idea can be done for I. Go ahead, Leon.
01:27:41.20	Bill	Yeah.
01:27:45.32	Bill	Good job.
01:27:45.57	Leon	Absolutely.
01:27:50.36	Leon	I would agree. I would concur with that, except I have a great concern, and that is the state of California and its mandated housing element. And I recently read about the emergency shelters component of the Housing and Community Development Department of the state. And here's another area where they really don't understand what they're talking about or what they're doing. They have no experience. And they're opening the door to the Marin ship. I don't know if they're thinking maybe the industrial area, maybe the waterfront area.
01:28:38.63	Bill	you know. their thinking.
01:28:40.90	Leon	I thought they were thinking of the Army Corps.
01:28:40.94	Bill	Thank you.
01:28:40.95	Unknown	Thank you.
01:28:41.16	Bill	I don't think of the Army Corps. They're dealing only with the PI zone anywhere in town.
01:28:45.80	Leon	They deal with the whole area of town. They have no exclusions. Well, well,
01:28:51.01	Unknown	you Thank you.
01:28:52.16	Leon	Thank you.
01:28:52.23	Unknown	Yeah.
01:28:52.26	Leon	They have no exclusions, and I think it's time that we cut them off of that, because if they open the door, and residential in any way is allowed,
01:28:52.85	Unknown	They have no human rights.
01:29:04.38	Unknown	Yeah.
01:29:07.94	Leon	I think that's going to be a problem. We have kept that without residential for a purpose. to have the state come in and say, well, maybe we need a shelter in the marineship area, or maybe it's going to be here or there or someplace else. Sure. You know, they just, they don't know their boundaries.
01:29:25.79	Unknown	Thank you.
01:29:29.52	Unknown	Chair. Thank you. Yeah.
01:29:34.53	Lily (Staff)	Chair Petrovich, if I may, just the council had a meeting last Tuesday to discuss specifically one of the components of the discussion was the emergency shelters and council direction was to. only look at specific sites in the PI district, and the sites that were selected were not in the Marinship. So what was directed moving forward to the Planning Commission is an overlay that does not include the Marinship PI sites for the emergency shelters.
01:30:03.64	Unknown	THE END OF THE END OF THE
01:30:04.13	Lily (Staff)	just an overall for what the city is required to do by the state is to select a zoning district in the city where an emergency shelter could be permitted by Wright's the use is permitted by Wright if there needed to be some sort of construction or anything that would trigger a design review permit that would go to the Planning Commission so it's not regulating it's not mandating that the city needs to approve a certain structure, but just that the use isn't allowed use somewhere in the city. And so the sites that were given direction by the city council were PI sites that are owned by the city of Sausalito or that were owned by the Sausalito school district. Thank you.
01:30:48.48	Leon	Thank you.
01:30:48.50	Unknown	Bye.
01:30:48.63	Leon	Very good. Okay. Thank you.
01:30:50.37	Unknown	Okay. Go ahead, Ray. No. All right. Okay. So let's, maybe we can kind of move on. I was suggesting we move on. Yeah, let's move on from that. This doesn't seem applicable. So we've gotten through kind of a,
01:30:55.33	Ray	I was suggesting we move on.
01:31:02.87	Unknown	a rewrite of number five. How about a rewrite of number six? Is that to get it more in the context of what we're thinking, and then we can talk about whether or not they should be combined, if they're okay on their own. It seems like to me they're okay on their own. once they're rewritten. But maybe there's a few things here that we could – so number six uses of industrial zones should be examined to see if there can be flexibility added to encourage innovation. Maybe that's not the right word.
01:31:37.25	Unknown	That's kind of where I get stuck. Sure. I think we have time for some public comment. Let's try and keep it short because we have a lot of work to do.
01:31:52.96	Unknown	Islam. There you go. Please remember to state your name for the record, too. Just send it.
01:31:58.60	Nicole Warren	My name is Nicole Warren. I work for SWA Group. We're property owner and business in the Mirrenship in the I district. So I wrote a letter on behalf of the SWA Group that I wanted to submit to the committee that talks about the applied arts mostly. But I wanted to bring it up now because there is some language in it I think that could help just in terms of what the vision for the industrial zone could be and sort of how applied arts factors into that. So if I could just read the letter into the record. uh Jeremy Schensing and the merchants for the industrial zone could be and sort of how applied arts factors into that. So if I could just read the letter into the record. Dear Ms. Shinsing in the Mirrenship Specific Plans Steering Committee, we last submitted a letter to your committee on March 20th, that letter, which I also have detailed sort of broad goals and objectives that we consider integral to our continued economic stability as a consulting practice in landscape architecture and planning. SWA Group is one of SASLID's largest employers and we've been located in the Mirrenship for over five decades. We value the Marin Ships' unique culture and history, and our staff regularly enjoy the views, restaurants, and recreation opportunities along the south side of the waterfront. So we respectfully request that as your committee reevaluates the allowable uses in the Marinship specific plan area that you please consider the following. One, SWA groups landscape architecture and planning consultant practice is identified in the 1989 Marinship specific plan blah blah blah exception 3C blah blah blah planning area 3 zone 2 blah blah blah I zone which states? Given the nature of the individual businesses on this parcel, the primary use could be considered to be applied arts. This is on page 20. And we agree applied arts is an appropriate designation of SWA Group's use of the property. Landscape architecture is a specific example of the list of uses consistent with the intent and definition of applied arts. Number two, we request applied arts being allowed use in the industrialized zone and not simply an inclusionary arts use. This change from inclusionary use to allowed use would give us to the group more operational flexibility. And then the third point is sort of what I think is maybe the most relevant for you, that appropriate expansion of the list of allowed uses in the industrial I-zone and the waterfront W-zones could attract investment and improve the vitality and vibrancy of the waterfront without compromising the funky maritime character of our beloved Marinship neighborhood. Examples include more neighborhood serving amenities, services for local residents and employees such as cafes, small manufacturing studios, 3D printing and digital fabrication shops and small scale design and art trying to businesses similar in size and scale to our own practice. These types of studio based businesses contribute to a successful design district that could help anchor and promote the Marin ship as an overall arts oriented waterfront.
01:34:37.22	Unknown	Thank you very much. Okay. Moving back to number six, is there anything from that letter, which I thought was really good, in terms of kind of capturing some thoughts from the partnership, anything relevant there that anyone wants to comment on?
01:35:03.34	Unknown	I think maybe getting stuck on the word of innovation, but encouraging something.
01:35:17.70	Ray	Well, the applied arts issue is a separate discussion, I think. That's next, yeah. And that's sort of next.
01:35:20.99	Mike	Thank you.
01:35:23.05	Unknown	Thank you.
01:35:23.07	Ray	Right.
01:35:23.36	Mike	Mmm.
01:35:23.44	Ray	Thank you.
01:35:23.46	Mike	you
01:35:23.52	Ray	Thank you.
01:35:23.57	Mike	Thank you. So I think we should
01:35:24.76	Ray	Thank you.
01:35:24.77	Unknown	Well, is it next or is it maybe part of number six? It's about encouraging, I mean, we're talking about looking at the, you know, The uses listed in the industrial zone should be examined to see if there can be flexibility added to encourage
01:35:38.04	Ray	you Right, but why that needs to be a separate discussion is it is a unique driver in the marineship specific plan currently for the other arts.
01:35:42.43	Unknown	A lot of light arts. Right.
01:35:47.67	Unknown	for it is the other arts question I'm wondering if it could be folded in the same direction yes that we should should we jump to that it's related to I
01:35:53.77	Bill	I... It's related, but It's related, but I think that we're talking about the industrial zone in this context today.
01:35:58.76	Unknown	No, Karen.
01:35:59.64	Ray	Thank you.
01:36:06.76	Bill	This statement ought to recognize the fact that the definition of industrial production activities is in fact different today than it was 25 years ago.
01:36:25.56	Mike	Very different.
01:36:26.44	Bill	Thank you. And as Mike, you pointed out that automobile dealerships are not allowed down here, but we have a major one. It's not exactly a showroom.
01:36:34.85	Unknown	Yeah.
01:36:35.04	Unknown	THE END OF THE END OF THE
01:36:35.07	Unknown	A major one.
01:36:36.15	Unknown	Thank you.
01:36:38.69	Bill	And it's really Oranbeel showrooms. But it's a retail operation. And it's a retail operation in a way. So what needs to happen here is that we need to
01:36:38.74	Unknown	Thank you. Long deal.
01:36:41.98	Unknown	operation and its retail operation.
01:36:44.03	Ray	to your weight. Thank you.
01:36:54.65	Bill	assess and analyze what industrial means in the 21st century as opposed to the 20th century. Yeah.
01:37:04.99	Tom	I don't know that we need this. We're going to look at all these uses in the future, and we're going to have to look at everything. If you really want to do it, we could just add it to five and say the uses listed in the waterfront and industrial zone should be examined and see if there are any flexibility. It's saying the exact same thing. Frankly, I don't think it's needed because when we get into it, it's a level of detail I think it's over detail, but I'd put it in five.
01:37:08.71	Bill	Yeah.
01:37:08.93	Unknown	Thank you.
01:37:27.39	Leon	detail, but I'd put it in five. I'm sorry. Yeah. It's already in the zoning. It's just there's a restriction in the CUP that applies to it. I guess I don't. Go ahead, Mike.
01:37:30.64	Tom	Yeah.
01:37:36.99	Unknown	I guess I don't...
01:37:38.96	Mike	I think if you were to drop yourself into another community someplace and consider what should an industrial zone look like today versus 20 years ago, you'd have an expanded definition. Oh, yeah. And you'd include some things, you'd throw some others out. You might not include the cartel agent guys, but you would find that there's other uses that are...
01:37:39.01	Unknown	Thank you.
01:37:39.08	Leon	Thank you.
01:37:54.96	Unknown	Oh yeah.
01:38:02.20	Mike	clearly industrial in nature, but they're not pouring steel and doing the things that they did. But when you do.
01:38:09.56	Leon	Thank you. But what are we looking at? I read that issue when we first started talking. And I believe that it's important that we expand to meet the current time and hopefully looking forward. But for purposes of the consultants, is it necessary to really go into that at this point? I think it is necessary. I think it's imperative. I think it's very imperative.
01:38:15.26	Mike	Thank you.
01:38:22.18	Mike	Thank you. to underscore what's wrong.
01:38:31.90	Unknown	I think it is necessary. I think it's imperative. I think it's very important.
01:38:35.31	Mike	I think without that. If you want that area to remain vibrant, particularly the area of the quote-unquote green properties, you're going to need to look at what those uses are to study what they are and then decide.
01:38:36.35	Leon	Bye.
01:38:36.39	Unknown	that.
01:38:45.20	Bill	I are, but is it?
01:38:46.09	Leon	Thank you.
01:38:46.14	Bill	decided.
01:38:46.63	Leon	really, really,
01:38:46.97	Mike	Thank you.
01:38:47.09	Leon	Thank you.
01:38:47.12	Mike	Thank you.
01:38:47.93	Bill	But we're not asking these consultants to do that. We're asking them to at least put it down as one of the steps in the future. Exactly.
01:38:48.05	Mike	We're not.
01:38:48.45	Leon	Bye.
01:38:48.47	Mike	I'm sorry.
01:38:48.54	Leon	Thank you. Thank you. Well, it is part of it already. It's been there since we've put it in the 80s.
01:38:58.66	Unknown	I think the reason why this is – I'm not sure if I agree with that in the specific plan. But I think that the whole point of – well, a lot of these, both five and six especially –
01:39:03.76	Leon	in the specific plan.
01:39:05.06	Unknown	because,
01:39:11.20	Unknown	are and I don't believe this should go into, the industrial die zone should go into, be combined with the waterfront zone, because I want to think of this, works about the way the waterfront number five is written now is that hit. it creates a framework, a vision for the waterfront zone restricted to water related uses. And that's a vision. And without that, what's the point of this whole exercise? And I think number six, he has to equally have a vision, which is basically, again, a framework. We're not going to say, you know, high uses need to be looked at within the framework of water-related uses, because that's W. but we need to create some kind of a framework and a vision for it that is basically a loose direction. You can go over here, but you can't go over there. And that's really what I think that needs to do.
01:40:03.70	Tom	Now one thing, they both assume, the way the rate
01:40:05.89	Unknown	Maybe she's to it.
01:40:06.99	Tom	Thank you.
01:40:07.11	Unknown	Thank you.
01:40:07.31	Tom	you
01:40:07.36	Unknown	Thank you.
01:40:08.07	Tom	Go ahead, Tom. Oh. Bye. Oh, they both assume that the uses are not going to be examined, but only unforeseeable uses. So we should, I mean, I'm not sure. I mean, I'm assuming we're going to look at all the uses. So it should say that.
01:40:10.97	Unknown	Bye.
01:40:22.30	Tom	uses listed in the waterfront zone should be examined, including to see if there are going to be any unforeseen. Right? I mean, otherwise. Well, I mean, well. That's some of the confusion that I have.
01:40:28.25	Unknown	I mean,
01:40:28.56	Unknown	Thank you.
01:40:28.61	Unknown	other one
01:40:33.97	Tom	Like, this assumes that we're going to keep all these in the same way when we get unforeseen.
01:40:40.81	Unknown	Well, I mean, we wrote five to, you know, I think we agreed on it. I was waiting until later. But, you know, the uses list in the waterfront zone should be examined to see if there can be flexibility added However, within the context that any new use should only be those that need a water location support, the working waterfront, or need public access. So I think that creates a sort of a framework for looking at it. You can look at it in this way, but don't go over there. And I think I think it's important that the eye be looked at in the same way you look at it in this context, but don't go that way. Ray, you had something to say? Thank you.
01:41:14.44	Ray	Well, I think the way to start crafting that close, if you like, which gives you sort of a bit of a vision, is first of all, is it going to remain industrial?
01:41:34.30	Ray	Right? My premise is yes. Right? And so in a sense, it is important to define it as, are you going to allow retail in there? Are you going to have any residential in there? Are you going to have, well, I mean, I know the answers to that for myself, which is generally no. There might be some caveats here and there, but generally no. So are we gonna... say, yes, it's going to remain as an industrial zone, and let's look at all the uses in that industrial zone so that it's an industrial zone for the 21st century, not the second half of it. funny. So, or are you, do you want to have the discussion or make the recommendation that the consultant needs to expand the look beyond industrial?
01:42:24.03	Unknown	Yeah.
01:42:36.82	Unknown	Well, I mean, to add on to that, I think that there's also in this SWA letter, I think there's an important point about creating a also creating a a business district. in some way it is a business district, but actually does not have the amenities that typically go with a business district. I think is one of those sort of key points in there. which were even the amenities to go with an industrial district. such as the various support services, and there's a little bit of that in the Mauritius Pacific Plan. Restaurants that only cater to workers, et cetera, et cetera, but there's
01:43:14.96	Mike	We're getting in the weeds, I think. Yeah. Pull us out. Right.
01:43:16.60	Unknown	Yeah.
01:43:17.04	Ray	Pulse out. Right. But is it going to remain industrial? That's the question I'm trying to get on the table.
01:43:20.01	Mike	That's the question I'm trying to get on the table. And if so, what's the expanded view of an industrial zone these days? It's different than it was between the-
01:43:27.55	Ray	Yeah. Plus amenity. I mean, there's plenty of stuff in the current plan to talk about
01:43:30.64	Mike	on stuff. Yeah.
01:43:33.66	Ray	you know I think your 3D printing shop, technically I could find cases in the plan already, for example. Yeah, it probably is.
01:43:37.98	Unknown	Thank you.
01:43:38.00	Unknown	It's funny. Yeah, it probably is. I mean, a lot of the applied arts uses are, or even the, not even the applied arts, but the industrial arts uses are already in the plan. Yeah.
01:43:44.24	Ray	are
01:43:44.97	Mike	Right.
01:43:45.42	Ray	This is good.
01:43:46.10	Mike	Thank you.
01:43:46.79	Ray	THE END OF THE END OF THE
01:43:46.96	Mike	you but then...
01:43:48.81	Ray	Thank you.
01:43:48.97	Unknown	.
01:43:49.05	Mike	Thank you.
01:43:49.25	Unknown	Bye.
01:43:49.27	Mike	of course.
01:43:49.42	Unknown	Bye.
01:43:49.84	Unknown	Thank you.
01:43:51.31	Mike	I suspect that this area has morphed more than any other area in the world. It morphed over the last 25 to 30 years. Yeah. So it's not what it started out as.
01:43:55.06	Unknown	Right. Yeah. Thank you.
01:44:00.51	Unknown	Thank you. I think we can take out a kind of industrial zone and get into a conflict of business zone. I've got the snippets here.
01:44:01.64	Mike	Ready?
01:44:11.10	Mike	Well, I'm not suggesting that we should get into any other zone. I'm just suggesting that we need to know what we have and what we could have. And if we want to keep it in that zone.
01:44:13.64	Unknown	Thank you.
01:44:13.74	Bill	I just.
01:44:17.43	Bill	And if we want to keep it I think what Ray said is absolutely right on. This is an industrial zone. And all we need to do is figure out or ask the consultant
01:44:23.49	Mike	Yeah.
01:44:31.20	Bill	to give us a framework in which The definition of industrial can be more clearly defined.
01:44:36.05	Unknown	Okay. So let's do this. Recommend that we create a new definition for industrial zone for the 25th.
01:44:44.13	Mike	I don't think that we want to create a new definition. I think we'd want to examine, revise, examine, and see if there's opportunities to revise or take a light.
01:44:48.08	Ray	Thank you.
01:44:48.20	Unknown	I'm a fan.
01:44:48.53	Ray	and revise old-day language.
01:44:51.71	Unknown	Thank you.
01:44:51.72	Ray	Thank you.
01:44:51.74	Unknown	revised definitions for industrial zones.
01:44:53.70	Ray	.
01:44:53.78	Unknown	Thank you.
01:44:56.50	Mike	Thank you.
01:44:56.95	Unknown	standard uses happening in the government.
01:45:02.25	Mike	Or better, how about examining what an industrial zone might look like in 2014, basically.
01:45:10.44	Unknown	Well, yeah, basically that. So...
01:45:12.78	Bill	I think more like 2024, by the time we get done with the general policy.
01:45:13.04	Mike	Is it right?
01:45:14.32	Unknown	Thank you.
01:45:14.34	Mike	20 years.
01:45:17.27	Unknown	I'm sorry.
01:45:17.42	Bill	Bye.
01:45:17.46	Unknown	.
01:45:17.59	Bill	. All right.
01:45:20.23	Ray	Okay.
01:45:20.98	Bill	We could keep adding decades on it.
01:45:21.03	Unknown	We could keep adding.
01:45:21.96	Ray	Yeah.
01:45:22.03	Unknown	It's a good note.
01:45:22.98	Ray	Thank you.
01:45:23.03	Mike	Thank you.
01:45:23.09	Ray	28th.
01:45:23.65	Mike	you
01:45:24.06	Unknown	Okay, so...
01:45:24.56	Mike	In Sausalito, so make it 2034.
01:45:26.81	Unknown	So.
01:45:27.50	Mike	Thank you.
01:45:29.52	Unknown	So if we were to rewrite number six, we would say examine
01:45:36.93	Ray	Well, it's the same start as five.
01:45:38.65	Unknown	Thank you. Right. The uses listed in the industrial zone should be examined to... I'm getting stuck, I have the general idea. You should be examined to, it's not helping that you're just looking at me. I know, I'm sort of, I channel in here. Distracting me.
01:45:53.91	Ray	I know.
01:45:54.65	Unknown	I just...
01:45:55.27	Ray	I don't know.
01:45:56.03	Unknown	channel in here. Distracting me. Robin. To see if there can be any flexibility for.
01:46:02.87	Unknown	to see if there can be any flexibility for
01:46:10.26	Unknown	Okay, these are listed in industrial zones should be examined to see if there can be flexibility within the definition of industrial in the context of of
01:46:23.03	Ray	MR. I'm not sure flexibility actually helps in this context, the word flexibility, because what you're trying to do is you want to sort of look at the industrial uses and ask whether they need to be updated.
01:46:39.57	Unknown	to revise appropriate industrial, to revise for modern industrial uses for
01:46:43.13	Ray	modern industrial modern industrial
01:46:45.70	Unknown	industrial
01:46:46.15	Unknown	Thank you.
01:46:46.25	Unknown	Thank you. Thank you.
01:46:46.54	Unknown	Thank you.
01:46:46.86	Unknown	Yeah.
01:46:46.93	Leon	Yeah. You need to understand what is and what direction we're going in, right?
01:46:52.35	Ray	Okay. Because you've got a little clause in number five, which gives you some sort of anchoring to water and waterfront uses and so on. You want the same just clause that anchors you to modern industrial. Maybe that's the word. Or 21st century industrial. The uses listed in the...
01:46:56.90	Unknown	which,
01:47:11.50	Unknown	The uses listed in the industrial zone should be examined to revise industrial uses for the 21st century. Something like that. Because that will give us another 86 years.
01:47:23.02	Ray	Thank you. Thank you.
01:47:26.25	Unknown	Thank you.
01:47:26.26	Ray	Right. And it's put this, but the point is it's putting the stake in the ground that is still industrial. Yes, absolutely.
01:47:26.77	Unknown	put the... for the I like it. It's putting the stake in the ground that is still Yes, absolutely. That's very important. I think it's important we got to that. Okay, so number six, we rewrite that. to say the use of listed in industrial zones should be examined to revise industrial industrial uses for the 21st century.
01:47:53.38	Ray	to recognize.
01:47:54.44	Unknown	to revise and recognize appropriate industrial uses for the 21st century?
01:47:57.41	Ray	Yes.
01:47:58.97	Tom	All right. I'm just going to say on these uses, and I actually agree with a comment Leon made earlier. We need the consultants in a lot of areas, but when it comes to the uses down there, I think this group's going to have to define that with public input. I think if we go in and say, find us some industrial uses for the 21st century, we're going to go, oh my God, what are these guys smoking and what happened here? Because in the end of the day, you know, this is the one area I think we could,
01:48:23.03	Unknown	Exactly.
01:48:29.02	Tom	We might get some help when we get stuck on some of the definitions, but I think in the end we... We may need to have them help us where the water line should be an industrial zone, but I think a lot of what's gonna go down there is defined In the Marineship Specific Plan, we've got public input. And I think we kind of know it, and we certainly I wouldn't want to give them Just an open-ended request to say 21st century industry at a minimum would say these are the general ones and this is what we don't want I think that's work that needs to be done in this group
01:49:01.34	Ray	I sort of agree with that.
01:49:03.01	Unknown	Thank you.
01:49:03.11	Ray	Yeah.
01:49:03.45	Unknown	you So how do we want to frame that? I mean, again, that's back to the framework of we have to have a vision, right? So you're defining the vision a little bit more. How do you do that?
01:49:11.77	Tom	to go back. I think this is pretty detailed. We're going to have to look at uses, so I'm not so worried about number six, how we define it. I think we're going to have to look at all the uses and...
01:49:16.91	Unknown	CLINTON.
01:49:22.77	Tom	So I'm just not so concerned. But I just got to be careful about giving them to go off on an open-ended pursuit. That is what we don't want them to do.
01:49:23.85	Unknown	Bye.
01:49:24.03	Unknown	I think the right topic. Yeah.
01:49:27.97	Unknown	Yeah.
01:49:29.20	Unknown	that's what we don't want them to do is correct but do we want to so do you want to limit industrial or I mean We're saying, okay, we are putting a stake in ground that's important, it's still industrial. But you're saying you're scared what industrial actually might mean once you find out?
01:49:45.30	Tom	I would go back, if you want to make this easy, you just listen to Dusty D'Oshman, some she needs examined, and put in the word including to see if there are any flexibility. And I just, I mean, she needs examined. We're not saying by whom. One of the things I think they need to do for us, these are the steps, this needs to be done, and who should do it. I think some of it should be done by this group.
01:50:06.81	Unknown	Thank you.
01:50:06.83	Tom	And that might be one of a wrong viewpoint.
01:50:07.27	Unknown	Thank you.
01:50:08.90	Bill	I think you're absolutely right, but I also think that we're probably not the first group that sat around trying to figure this out.
01:50:13.98	Unknown	Thank you.
01:50:15.60	Bill	And the consultants may, in fact, have already run across some places where this has been discussed. I'm sure they have. And they may have a menu that we would like to take a look at.
01:50:21.90	Tom	Thank you.
01:50:28.65	Tom	We can, well, we do it by doing that. But I just wouldn't want to give the wrong idea, though. No, no, no. What?
01:50:34.17	Bill	And we're not turning them loose to tell us what we're doing. We're just turning them loose to inform us.
01:50:34.28	Mike	AND WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE
01:50:39.70	Mike	You could narrow the scope by saying recommend any additions or changes to the industrial mix or something like that. Because that way you don't limit them from thinking outside the box, but at the same time you're just asking for suggestions. Because the word tech does not appear anywhere in here. There are some tech uses that would be compatible with industrial use. I know. So say that again, Mike. And more could come. We could create a tech center, for example, where manufacturing small-scale tech stuff would be, you know, quite appropriate. Mike, I agree with that.
01:50:47.24	Bill	Thank you.
01:50:47.26	Unknown	Mm-hmm.
01:50:47.84	Bill	Thank you.
01:50:53.86	Unknown	Because, you know,
01:51:02.15	Unknown	Thank you. So say that again, mate.
01:51:12.96	Tom	like I agree with this and by the way if we were talking about uses we could also talk about this stuff. We don't need the consultants. But I think I'd go with your suggestion about having them look at it and make suggestions.
01:51:18.92	Mike	Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. So we're just asking for, again, we're looking for an outside fresh look at some of this stuff. And if they get too far out, we'll just chop off.
01:51:31.63	Unknown	We do, but I think that we also need to give a framework for what too far out could be.
01:51:36.25	Tom	Thank you.
01:51:37.38	Leon	I think, yeah, that was good language.
01:51:37.77	Tom	I think, yeah, that would be... Yeah. Thank you.
01:51:40.50	Unknown	so so so so so said again like
01:51:43.00	Leon	Thank you.
01:51:43.14	Mike	Everybody's... People are that bad.
01:51:47.57	Unknown	Um.
01:51:47.98	Lily (Staff)	Do you want me to take a stab at what I wrote down? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I am...
01:51:48.87	Mike	I mean,
01:51:49.21	Unknown	Take care.
01:51:50.51	Mike	Yeah. Down.
01:51:51.91	Unknown	Thank you.
01:51:51.94	Unknown	Thank you.
01:51:55.84	Lily (Staff)	I was adding on to committee member theodorus's suggestion so what I have is the uses listed in the industrial zone should be examining including to see if there should be any additions or deletions to the industrial industrial mix
01:52:11.79	Leon	Thank you.
01:52:12.14	Unknown	Thank you.
01:52:12.38	Mike	Yeah, good. Thank you.
01:52:13.17	Leon	.
01:52:13.26	Unknown	Thank you.
01:52:13.27	Leon	you
01:52:13.85	Unknown	That's good.
01:52:15.15	Mike	Thank you.
01:52:15.22	Unknown	Exactly.
01:52:15.67	Mike	Thank you.
01:52:16.02	Unknown	Thank you.
01:52:16.14	Mike	Thank you.
01:52:16.19	Unknown	Thank you. I guess I don't, but I'm not going for that. Maybe I can get out.
01:52:20.68	Mike	Why don't you like it?
01:52:21.88	Unknown	because it doesn't provide any framework. It just says, you know, add it to the mix. But it doesn't provide any kind of vision for what is appropriate for what we want to see happen in the branch of the Sassolito.
01:52:33.20	Mike	But then you're coming, God bless you, you're coming to a conclusion again. We're not asking for a conclusion. We're asking them to give us their ideas. We can make the conclusion from that. We'll be the ones who decide what kind of uses we want down there or not. But if we don't have a full range of opportunities, which we expect our study to produce, we can't narrow that to something we can use.
01:52:58.45	Unknown	Thank you.
01:52:58.53	Unknown	Thank you.
01:52:58.73	Unknown	Right.
01:53:02.04	Ray	I mean, I think the stake in the ground is it remains industrial.
01:53:06.18	Mike	Thank you.
01:53:06.19	Unknown	Yeah.
01:53:06.56	Ray	Thank you.
01:53:06.60	Unknown	Yes.
01:53:06.63	Ray	Yes, I think maybe.
01:53:06.97	Unknown	Thank you.
01:53:06.99	Unknown	I think maybe if that can be, I mean, maybe that, I guess I would be happier if that was worded a little bit more strongly. If it would say something like, while retaining the industrial mix of,
01:53:07.97	Unknown	you
01:53:08.14	Ray	Thank you.
01:53:21.72	Unknown	the industrial working mix or something like that.
01:53:24.27	Mike	Thank you. Yeah, that's... Thank you.
01:53:25.48	Unknown	that creates a little bit of a framework for a target for them, not just expand the existing uses of an industrial zone.
01:53:25.50	Mike	Thank you.
01:53:32.03	Ray	Right. The rubber meets the road in the future discussion when it comes to office space.
01:53:40.47	Unknown	THE END OF THE END OF THE
01:53:42.00	Ray	Because this marineship specific plan, one of its primary intents was to stop further office development after Marina Plaza. Bill, am I right here? I'm right. Right. Okay. So that was the goal of the plan. It was reasonably successful in that goal.
01:53:53.11	Unknown	Right, right.
01:54:02.12	Ray	Okay. The issue is, and there's a lot of people in town who don't want any more offices there, you know? Because back in 1980, whenever. It was very easy to differentiate between an industrial building and an office. It's not anymore, and that's going to be where the rubber meets the road in the discussion. For instance, I'm reading the uses in here of general industrial.
01:54:20.97	Unknown	more. They look alike. Well, I'm sorry. meets the road.
01:54:25.03	Unknown	of discussion.
01:54:32.32	Ray	And the interesting thing that it specifically says is, you know. light industrial, manufacturing, assembly, repair, the usual definitions of what you think of industrial. And then importantly, non-office type research and development.
01:54:54.09	Unknown	Mmm.
01:54:55.38	Ray	Well, that nowadays is an impossibility. That just doesn't exist. It's a non-secondary. So there's an example of, and then you're going to really confront some really tough stuff in the future analysis and discussions that you're going to get from public input. And yes, this would be the group who would need to decide. If you want to get R&D in there, you're talking about offices.
01:54:55.86	Unknown	That nowadays Yeah. It's a non-secretary.
01:55:11.98	Unknown	Thank you.
01:55:12.05	Unknown	Thank you.
01:55:12.10	Unknown	Yeah.
01:55:20.86	Ray	because that's what people do R&D in now.
01:55:23.34	Mike	But they wanted to look at it.
01:55:23.35	Ray	Thank you.
01:55:24.03	Bill	Yeah.
01:55:24.23	Mike	I'm going to go to the
01:55:24.60	Bill	Thank you.
01:55:24.65	Ray	Right.
01:55:25.13	Bill	Thank you.
01:55:26.05	Ray	So,
01:55:26.36	Bill	Thank you.
01:55:26.44	Ray	Thank you. Thank you.
01:55:26.69	Mike	Thank you.
01:55:26.98	Ray	you know.
01:55:27.94	Bill	And if you're doing R&D on designing the next sailboat, it looks like an office, too. Right.
01:55:34.59	Unknown	Thank you.
01:55:34.85	Bruce Huff	Thank you.
01:55:36.13	Unknown	Um...
01:55:36.80	Bruce Huff	I'm going to be very short.
01:55:38.81	Unknown	Yes, let's give Bruce some time here.
01:55:40.50	Bruce Huff	Thank you. Thank you. I'm Bruce Huff. Through the last half hour, I think a half hour ago, somebody hit the nail on the head here of the way I think that you should write your recommendations as consultants because it's mainly about definitions. It's really not about definitions. uses. I mean, there are uses that you'll want to exclude. But what's changed in 25 years is the definition of industrial and quite honestly, the definition of commercial office. Because what is commercial office? And it's always been my contention, there's a lot of industrial uses that require air conditioning, require Good communications require good electrical power, which is what a Class A office building actually produces. It produces environmental systems, it produces state of the art communications, and it produces good consistent power. So I think most of what if I was sitting in your shoes, that I'd recommend to the consultants is show us the modern definitions of these terms. Industrial as it applies to a small urban waterfront community
01:57:00.91	Unknown	I ask.
01:57:06.90	Bruce Huff	is not the same as industrial in the heartland of Texas. It's truly not. And If you're looking at R&D, if you're looking at, in fact, my contention about applied arts, and I probably won't hang around for the conversation, is that most of those uses, in my view of today's definition, industrial. I believe that The design industry is in industrial use today, and that's just my opinion. But I'd really like to hear from consultants too. And so I think what you're talking about is definitions. You may exclude some things, but I'd be very interested to hear what their definitions of industrial use are and what their definition of commercial office is. Thank you.
01:57:55.94	Leon	Yeah. Thank you, Bruce.
01:57:57.31	Unknown	Thank you, President.
01:58:01.64	Bruce Huff	Well, in California, there are a lot of small urban waterfront communities. and it would be, I think you're on the right track. I mean, that's what I'd be asking. I wouldn't even go further than that. I mean, that would be kind of what I'd like.
01:58:10.65	Unknown	THAT'S WHAT I'M GOING TO DO.
01:58:11.01	Leon	I don't know.
01:58:15.01	Leon	We were paying too much. I think if we go into the uses,
01:58:21.86	Unknown	Well, I think it's important to know what they came back with when we asked them for the definition of working waterfront. And we had cargo ships and oil drilling operations and things like that, so it's about a definition that's appropriate for the area. So if we can...
01:58:35.76	Ray	you
01:58:35.85	Unknown	Thank you.
01:58:35.90	Ray	So we're going to... The important thing is that we're trying to also get across to the consultants is they put forward a
01:58:37.15	Unknown	God.
01:58:44.06	Ray	what I believe with all good intentions and unhelpful suggestion. which was just pick up a few uses out of industrial and stick them in waterfront. You know, that was, we need a lot of
01:58:52.94	Bill	Mm-hmm. Thank you.
01:58:57.84	Ray	a good one.
01:58:57.89	Bill	They actually heard that from property owners. Right. So, you know, that's. Right. Absolutely.
01:58:59.73	Ray	Probably.
01:59:03.00	Unknown	Right.
01:59:06.43	Unknown	Okay, so to kind of get back to it, let me just skip to number six. Examine the industrial uses to determine if any should be added while still appropriate to the industrial mix of the Marinian. work for everybody I've confused it because I had it somewhere.
01:59:19.93	Unknown	Yeah, that's the word. I mean, if you examine the whole thing, so it's
01:59:24.26	Unknown	Examine the industrial uses of the I-Zone. to determine if any should be added while still
01:59:32.36	Leon	Then we'll go back into uses again. Well, that's kind of where we ended up.
01:59:36.44	Unknown	Well, that's kind of where we ended up. And, you know, we went from definitions to uses. I also feel like definitions are important.
01:59:41.29	Leon	I also feel like definitions are important. I think Bruce hit it at the nail on the head. Ask what their definitions are in the sense of what are they seeing, looking forward, looking at the community they're consulting, looking at their interpretation of Sausalito. And what is the definition of industrial?
02:00:05.44	Unknown	Well, we can go back to what we had before. The industrial zone should be examined, revised, and recognized the appropriate definition for industrial uses for the 21st century. Thank you. Just because we're saying
02:00:16.02	Ray	Just because we're saying that industrial uses need to examine the waterfront uses, we're not necessarily... that could be a future action for this committee. I mean, it's just that they do need to be examined by someone at some point, you know, so.
02:00:24.61	Unknown	It's true. Yeah. Yeah.
02:00:30.41	Tom	Bye.
02:00:30.43	Unknown	Bye. Thank you.
02:00:32.03	Tom	The other thing we have, I think we, we, getting in a little trouble. I mean, they can be defined different ways, and as Bruce said, industrial in Texas is a lot different than industrial here. But some of it, and we'll get this into office space and the applied arts, but we need to have some of the definitions, and they did that somewhat in the Marineship-specific plan. Low traffic, small enterprises, the impact that it's gonna have. Rather than a used, we might wanna have to say, this is what, does it employ,
02:01:01.72	Bill	of
02:01:02.19	Tom	resident people, I mean, whatever our criteria may be, it would be important to do because we don't want non-polluting for light industrial. All those factors need to be considered.
02:01:02.52	Bill	Thank you.
02:01:12.67	Bill	That's exactly what's going on because I think we have to deal with the consequences of the use rather than the use itself. That's a major part of it. That was a great description.
02:01:26.84	Ray	Yeah, the actual words are non-polluting, low traffic generating, low intensity, industrial uses.
02:01:31.13	Bill	industrial uses. That's absolutely right. So we should stick with that.
02:01:33.90	Mike	That's absolutely right. Yeah, yeah. Thank you. Those are your limiters.
02:01:40.66	Unknown	Okay, so...
02:01:42.87	Mike	Thank you.
02:01:43.02	Tom	Thank you.
02:01:43.04	Mike	Thank you.
02:01:43.60	Tom	Thank you.
02:01:43.60	Unknown	So I need to define number six and make sure we all agree with it. Who wants to take it on?
02:01:43.61	Mike	Thank you.
02:01:43.65	Tom	So,
02:01:48.46	Tom	I think you had it. The only thing you had only, it should be examined whether they should be changed or added to it. I mean, you just had it.
02:01:54.72	Mike	Thank you. Just take the... Yeah.
02:01:57.84	Unknown	Examine the industrial use to determine if any changes should be made
02:02:05.64	Unknown	any changes should be made while still
02:02:08.45	Mike	That's it. Period.
02:02:10.13	Unknown	and change the shipping.
02:02:11.04	Ray	TODAY.
02:02:11.48	Mike	You want to add something? Add to the mix.
02:02:14.31	Ray	Well, we want to get the fact that it's going to remain industrial. Yeah. To the industrial. To the industrial. If any changes should be made.
02:02:17.70	Mike	Yeah. If any changes should be made. leaving the industrial zone in place, please look at and take the-
02:02:26.80	Unknown	Thank you. I think the industrial use is a determine if any changes should be Made.
02:02:36.25	Unknown	to the industrial mix.
02:02:36.28	Mike	to the industrial mix. What does he say? While leaving the industrial zone in place, examine whether any changes should be made.
02:02:44.48	Leon	Well, what they're talking about is the character of industrial.
02:02:48.55	Mike	Thank you.
02:02:48.57	Unknown	Mm-hmm.
02:02:50.19	Leon	And I'm thinking this, we're going back to the uses. We're asking them to identify uses. I'm more interested in the character right now because as everybody I think is saying also, we're going to discuss those uses.
02:03:05.93	Mike	Thank you. What does character mean to you though? Say, give us a definition of character.
02:03:08.92	Leon	Thank you.
02:03:08.97	Bill	Thank you.
02:03:08.99	Leon	Thank you.
02:03:09.04	Bill	Thank you.
02:03:09.09	Leon	Thank you.
02:03:09.14	Bill	I think there's a lot of people that are going to be
02:03:09.48	Leon	Thank you.
02:03:09.73	Bill	Thank you.
02:03:09.81	Leon	Thank you.
02:03:09.98	Bill	The three things that came out. Those things. Low intensity. Oh, OK. Sure. Yeah. Right. All you need to do is to say that meet the criteria established by the specific plan in the first place.
02:03:10.03	Leon	The three things that came out.
02:03:12.97	Unknown	So, yep.
02:03:13.29	Unknown	.
02:03:13.34	Leon	Thank you.
02:03:13.74	Unknown	Thank you.
02:03:13.76	Unknown	Thank you.
02:03:13.95	Mike	Yeah.
02:03:14.23	Unknown	Thank you.
02:03:14.25	Mike	Good.
02:03:14.42	Unknown	Thank you.
02:03:14.52	Mike	Yeah.
02:03:14.89	Unknown	Thank you.
02:03:14.98	Unknown	Thank you.
02:03:15.03	Mike	Thank you.
02:03:15.04	Unknown	Yeah.
02:03:15.21	Mike	Right. But you still...
02:03:16.51	Unknown	Thank you.
02:03:17.66	Mike	Thank you.
02:03:21.81	Mike	Yeah. Yeah.
02:03:23.92	Leon	Yeah.
02:03:24.39	Mike	At some point you still are looking at uses. I don't think we need to take up.
02:03:24.49	Leon	Thank you. the
02:03:28.49	Leon	Yeah, but I don't think we need to take up the consultant's time for that. Yeah, but we're just asking them.
02:03:30.57	Bill	the consultant.
02:03:32.49	Mike	But we're just asking them to look at the chief. To make that recommendation. Is there anything else? That's all.
02:03:35.01	Leon	Absolutely.
02:03:35.02	Unknown	to make that recommendation. Examining the industrial use is determined if any changes should be made. Jesus.
02:03:43.04	Mike	Oh, yeah.
02:03:43.06	Unknown	changes, additions. Thank you.
02:03:44.83	Unknown	Change this to me.
02:03:45.22	Unknown	changes to be made. How about just changes?
02:03:47.78	Unknown	I don't think that provides much vision. That's just like changes.
02:03:55.34	Unknown	changes, additions, deletions. It's based on what criteria? Okay. Based on what criteria? Well, let them determine that.
02:03:55.76	Unknown	you
02:03:55.81	Unknown	Thank you.
02:03:55.97	Unknown	It's based on what?
02:04:02.11	Unknown	I think that's our job to determine that. I mean, I think that's why we're here. Otherwise, it's just.
02:04:04.84	Bill	It may end up being our job if this is doing what I think it's supposed to be doing, which is it'll end up being recommendations made by the consultants. Right. Who does it is not.
02:04:15.42	Ray	Right.
02:04:18.90	Bill	It doesn't mean the consultants are going to do it. It may mean that we're going to do it or another seven people that are unlucky enough to get on this committee.
02:04:20.08	Unknown	It doesn't mean that because
02:04:21.02	Ray	So...
02:04:21.18	Unknown	Thank you.
02:04:28.21	Bill	in the future are going to have to do it, but we're not asking them to do it for us.
02:04:28.70	Unknown	. Thank you.
02:04:30.83	Unknown	Thank you.
02:04:30.85	Ray	Thank you.
02:04:30.88	Unknown	.
02:04:30.91	Ray	But...
02:04:30.97	Unknown	Thank you.
02:04:35.62	Bill	at this point.
02:04:35.99	Unknown	at this point. Thank you.
02:04:37.28	Bill	you
02:04:38.34	Leon	Thank you.
02:04:38.36	Bill	Thank you.
02:04:38.46	Unknown	Thank you.
02:04:38.59	Bill	Thank you.
02:04:38.61	Unknown	Thank you.
02:04:38.83	Bill	Thank you.
02:04:38.85	Unknown	You're on this for the next 20 years. Is that industrial use to determine? Okay, is anybody in agreement with my point about needing something a little more to structure a vision, or do we want to leave it as valuable?
02:04:38.86	Bill	You're on this for the next 20 years.
02:04:42.03	Unknown	Thank you.
02:04:50.49	Bill	I mean, if you would describe what you think is more visionary.
02:04:52.63	Unknown	Thank you.
02:04:52.73	Leon	Thank you.
02:04:52.87	Unknown	Thank you.
02:04:52.99	Leon	No.
02:04:53.26	Unknown	.
02:04:53.43	Leon	Thank you. Thank you.
02:04:54.08	Unknown	Thank you.
02:04:54.10	Leon	Thank you.
02:04:54.73	Unknown	uh
02:04:56.94	Leon	Are you meaning characteristics? I mean in retaining the character of the
02:04:59.15	Unknown	I mean, in retaining the character of the industrial mix or something as simple as that, so it's not open-ended. I mean, industrial uses could be anything.
02:05:07.04	Unknown	What?
02:05:07.73	Unknown	Thank you.
02:05:07.87	Unknown	Thank you.
02:05:07.89	Unknown	consistent with
02:05:08.17	Unknown	consistent with
02:05:09.03	Bill	That's fine. Yes. If that's what you mean. I think it requires that. Okay.
02:05:10.00	Ray	That's fine.
02:05:10.69	Unknown	Yes. If that's what you mean. I think it requires that. For somebody that's not here in this room and hasn't been through this.
02:05:16.88	Bill	MR. Yeah. That's fine. Is that a tangible? Yes.
02:05:21.62	Unknown	Yes. Hold on, let's go back to Tom. Excessory use is a term if any changes are to be made.
02:05:30.77	Unknown	provided that such changes are consistent with paragraphs of such and such in the relationship?
02:05:36.81	Mike	With industrial use, period.
02:05:38.65	Unknown	I mean, I can remember those letters were.
02:05:38.72	Mike	Yeah.
02:05:42.33	Unknown	provided such changes are within the context of industrial use.
02:05:45.43	Mike	It kind of gets circular, though. Then why bother?
02:05:47.54	Unknown	Yeah.
02:05:48.25	Ray	You know, because the problem is, is that, let me read it fully. Non-polluting, low traffic generating, low intensity industrial uses...
02:05:49.91	Unknown	Well, I'm sorry.
02:05:49.97	Mike	is, is that
02:05:50.99	Unknown	Thank you.
02:05:52.07	Mike	THE END OF THE END OF THE
02:05:52.13	Unknown	Yeah.
02:05:57.16	Unknown	Right.
02:05:57.67	Ray	And the following uses, and a whole list of them, to the extent they are compatible with an industrial area. That's a circular argument.
02:06:04.52	Tom	That's a certain...
02:06:05.16	Unknown	It's a circular.
02:06:05.94	Tom	It's a circular argument. Why don't we put the post up? I think it would be on our scope. Especially if I could figure out all the limiters.
02:06:12.97	Unknown	right now.
02:06:13.77	Tom	We really, we haven't hit through the wall.
02:06:15.03	Leon	Yeah, yeah.
02:06:15.10	Mike	Thank you.
02:06:15.20	Unknown	.
02:06:15.23	Mike	Thank you.
02:06:17.23	Leon	Yeah.
02:06:17.46	Mike	They're going to get it. There's going to be more discussion. Okay, we can go.
02:06:17.48	Leon	THE END OF THE END OF THE
02:06:20.53	Ray	Okay, we can go ahead with that. Something is simple then is, you know, because you want to get, the only thing you want to get across, I think, is that it's... Retains an appropriate industrial character for the merchant today. It's a modern industrial area.
02:06:21.58	Unknown	We can go ahead with that.
02:06:32.31	Unknown	.
02:06:32.38	Mike	Thank you.
02:06:32.43	Unknown	It's an indusitza. Industrial?
02:06:35.40	Mike	THE END OF Right. which is while maintaining the industrial nature.
02:06:36.82	Ray	you
02:06:39.97	Mike	of our community.
02:06:40.36	Unknown	Look at this.
02:06:41.04	Leon	Thank you.
02:06:41.12	Unknown	Yeah. But I will.
02:06:42.54	Mike	Yeah.
02:06:42.74	Unknown	Thank you.
02:06:42.76	Mike	Thank you.
02:06:42.77	Unknown	Thank you. be careful about the modern sexuality in your own. I would get it back to kind of this.
02:06:49.56	Bill	The intent that was stated by the specific plan.
02:06:49.61	Leon	Yeah.
02:06:49.96	Unknown	to be.
02:06:50.03	Unknown	10.
02:06:50.56	Unknown	That was still a good idea.
02:06:52.31	Unknown	Thank you. Yeah.
02:06:55.28	Bill	and you still got home. Thank you.
02:06:56.41	Unknown	got that.
02:06:59.01	Bill	Thank you.
02:06:59.87	Unknown	I'm not sure if I do. I mean, I don't know if I do agree. But I think, Tom, I think that's my point. I mean, I think that adds some context of a vision that you have.
02:07:00.95	Unknown	I mean, I'm not.
02:07:01.03	Unknown	Thank you.
02:07:01.17	Unknown	I love it.
02:07:01.44	Unknown	it.
02:07:01.71	Unknown	I agree. but I think Tom,
02:07:07.36	Unknown	that you're expressing now that I think is what it really needed in order to have some sort of framework for them to study.
02:07:17.67	Lily (Staff)	I'm just going to repeat what I have, if you don't mind. Examine the industrial uses of the
02:07:19.36	Unknown	Right.
02:07:23.61	Lily (Staff)	industrial zone to determine if you Any changes? Should be made to the industrial mix provided that such changes are consistent Oops, sorry. Not that. industrial mix while maintaining the industrial character expressed in the general intent of the industrial zone of the Marinship specific plan. I can wordsmith it a little bit.
02:07:49.84	Unknown	a little bit. Yeah, right.
02:07:54.16	Unknown	Thank you.
02:07:54.17	Unknown	Thank you.
02:07:54.19	Unknown	Absolutely.
02:07:54.21	Unknown	I'm ready to go with it.
02:07:55.03	Ray	I'm ready to go with it. And if they say what, then we'll talk about it again. Okay, so the general intent. Okay. It's the objective of this zoning category to provide for industrial, service, and arts uses with the necessary support elements considered important to the city of Solsovito. This objective includes the general exclusion of commercial uses, such as office, which could instead be designated in other areas of the city.
02:08:00.20	Unknown	Thank you.
02:08:05.73	Unknown	you Street, Ocals.
02:08:26.81	Ray	I'm not sure you want that. I'm not sure. You're already predetermining an outcome.
02:08:26.93	Unknown	I'm not. If necessary. predetermining an outcome. Then we should take six out, because that's basically what we have. Right. You might as well say,
02:08:37.61	Ray	Right. You might as well say, why don't we revise the uses so that they're consistent with the uses in the specific plan? It's a circular argument.
02:08:39.11	Mike	Bye.
02:08:39.13	Unknown	Thank you.
02:08:43.40	Mike	in the specific platform. It's a circular argument. The way they describe things here is pretty open-ended. The limiters are the traffic and the non-glue and all that sort of thing. But it's pretty open-ended. So I'd be interested in what the consultant finds from other communities that he would survey to find out what they're doing and see if there's anything we could. Add or delete or take away. But probably never take away traffic, pollution. You've convinced me.
02:09:12.68	Unknown	you've convinced me.
02:09:16.73	Mike	and they were back. We're running around circles. Okay.
02:09:20.20	Unknown	Okay, let's go with that. I don't agree with it, but all the other committee members do. Do they? Yeah, I believe so.
02:09:27.68	Mike	Do they? Yeah, police. I do.
02:09:34.53	Unknown	Thank you.
02:09:34.55	Ray	Thank you.
02:09:34.56	Unknown	Anybody else disagree?
02:09:35.37	Ray	Thank you. I see your point, but I think it's a waste of time arguing. I'm ready to move on. No.
02:09:38.88	Unknown	I'm ready to move on. Arguing. No, yeah, I agree with that.
02:09:41.53	Ray	Yeah.
02:09:43.07	Unknown	I agree with that. I'm ready to move on. I'm just stating that I don't agree with it. I don't think it's enough. But let's move on. We'll keep that in.
02:09:43.32	Ray	I agree with that.
02:09:44.11	Unknown	Here's what I'm saying.
02:09:44.44	Ray	I'll see you next time.
02:09:44.57	Unknown	Ready to move on.
02:09:45.02	Unknown	Bye.
02:09:48.77	Unknown	Thank you. I'm going to keep that in. Of course.
02:09:52.40	Bill	Yeah. Thank you.
02:09:54.61	Unknown	Thank you.
02:09:55.03	Bill	I think we're...
02:09:56.26	Unknown	Let's move on.
02:09:56.28	Bill	That's for you. I can work with him.
02:09:58.41	Unknown	Okay. And I think we were happy with the way we defined number five before in terms of I don't think anybody disagreed with that.
02:10:07.37	Lily (Staff)	Can I get a clarification? Sorry. Are we removing the unforeseen future uses? Yeah.
02:10:12.19	Unknown	Yes, and we're writing the uses list in the waterfront zone should be examined to see if there can be any flexibility added. However, within the context, any new use should only be those blah, blah, blah as written. Got it. Thanks. Any disagreement with that? Okay, let's move on. So let's do a quick comment from Adam Carvassi. We've got about three more items to get through here.
02:10:42.27	Unknown	Madam Krivatsev for Lima Street, I would like to suggest that you add to this definition and any other activities or uses that contribute to the vitality of the working environment and that reflects what SWA was talking about, small cafes or whatever, that might make it much more pleasant to work in the area.
02:11:12.30	Unknown	Thank you for that comment. Anybody want to go back to that? Thank you. We need to ask. Okay, let's move on then to who wants to take on number seven?
02:11:20.03	Tony Badger	Yeah.
02:11:24.76	Bill	We did. you know,
02:11:28.77	Unknown	All different pieces.
02:11:29.53	Bill	I think number seven, I know it's being looked at in the context of the rest of the arts as well. And look at industrial arts, marine arts, fine arts, and applied arts. I think that maybe the sense of the thing to do is to say, the...
02:11:34.14	Mike	and look at the astral libraries
02:11:39.77	Mike	Thank you.
02:11:47.28	Bill	Thank you. Thank you. Once again, the definition of arts should be examined to determine if there is a major difference between the industrial arts, the marine arts, the fun arts, and the arts.
02:12:08.70	Tom	go further and we have to take a look at this. I mean, I would proffer that industrial arts and marine arts are basically light industry to some degree, and that Fine arts and applied arts are closer to arts. I mean, so even within that, I'm not sure it's all art. I mean, they use the term because They wanted to let it happen there, but I think they're different, and we need to be a little careful, because as you go forward with new uses, then... then things get further out of whack, I think. So we need to look at the whole definition, I think.
02:12:39.34	Mike	I think so.
02:12:39.97	Unknown	Well, all of those are in
02:12:42.85	Leon	Yeah.
02:12:43.56	Unknown	Yeah.
02:12:43.97	Leon	that this is already approved, maybe there's something we can do to incorporate or wrap around that that they could look at. Nevertheless.
02:12:55.90	Mike	Here's my fear, and Bruce and others could come up and say I'm full of prunes, but that if you expand the definition of applied arts and you take off the 50% limitation, that eventually the applied arts will crowd out the fine arts. because the fine arts can't pay the rent. Plied arts has got a business. The fine artist is probably, you of pocket, maybe sells enough art to stay in the business, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And we lose the vibrancy of an art community. So that could be just a fear, and not based on any material fact. But we've got a pretty good ICB that's filled up with artists and so is Bruce's organization. And it's a very vibrant community. You know, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
02:13:49.58	Leon	I agree with you. But I also think that within the scope of the specific plan,
02:13:51.05	Mike	Yeah.
02:13:58.71	Leon	Those have specific restrictions that were meant to protect the fine artists. And yeah, we need to protect those people. If there is a reason why we need to go further, I can say, sure, look at that. In other words, are they in danger of something? We don't want that encroached upon.
02:14:11.55	Unknown	you
02:14:23.14	Leon	let's keep the benefit of what we have. But I think it's all.
02:14:28.44	Mike	But I don't have any facts. I'm just doing this on, you know.
02:14:29.32	Unknown	All right.
02:14:29.67	Leon	Yeah, I don't have
02:14:30.62	Unknown	In fact, I'm just doing
02:14:31.92	Leon	Yeah.
02:14:31.97	Unknown	Thank you.
02:14:33.23	Unknown	Well, are there two things to discuss here? One is does the definition of applied arsenic
02:14:34.67	Mike	TO A CURRENT.
02:14:39.46	Unknown	Does it need to be looked at or is it just fine? And the second thing is, does the inclusionary status of applied arts need to be looked at? And that could be a couple of different things. That could be the – now look what you've done.
02:14:54.85	Mike	I did it on purpose. Yeah. Go ahead.
02:14:56.93	Unknown	So... Yeah.
02:15:00.25	Bruce Huff	Yeah.
02:15:00.39	Unknown	Thank you.
02:15:00.60	Bruce Huff	Because the third component of applied arts is a conditional use permit.
02:15:00.84	Mike	Thank you. Because
02:15:06.27	Bruce Huff	I don't know a single landlord or any sane tenant that would take three or four months to appear before a planning commission
02:15:17.06	Unknown	Mm-hmm.
02:15:17.51	Bruce Huff	to face additional restrictions on his used and or property to wait to sign a lease. I don't know a landlord that will wait the three or four months to rent the space, number one. I don't think the average tenant would be shocked. Thank you. TO BE BEFORE A PLANNING COMMISSION. So it's a cumbersome It's a cumbersome way of trying to support fine arts. And so what you end up doing is you either are in a position where in our opinion, the applied arts in our buildings, which is the bulk of our buildings, Support the Fight Arts. And the fine arts are appropriate in certain buildings because you can provide affordable space for them. But without the applied arts uses, then, the whole house of cards crumbles. And the conditional use permitting process is the third leg of that. And it's huge. It's really huge.
02:16:13.69	Unknown	Would you?
02:16:21.98	Bruce Huff	Thank you.
02:16:22.41	Mike	So would you change the 50% to nothing, or what would you do?
02:16:28.05	Bruce Huff	I think in your context. of looking at Zoning districts as opposed to parcels, which are not zoning districts, but the planning areas as opposed to parcels is a very wise way. to look at the district. that the fine arts use, there are ways to encourage fine arts use, that when the conversation occurs that we'd be more than happy to contribute some ideas to that. I don't think every building particularly is suitable for the fine arts, because I think there's buildings that would just go vacant because no matter what the price of rent is, the fine arts wouldn't be attracted to them.
02:17:09.56	Unknown	Thank you. Thank you.
02:17:11.42	Bruce Huff	the applied arts really do, to a large extent, attract and support the fine arts. So, and there's a vehicle there for the fine arts to actually have employment if they want it. And whoever said that a lot of them just are there on their own nickels, that's quite true. Because a lot of them don't even sell their art. They're just art for artists' purpose. But I think that the third leg of it
02:17:33.91	Unknown	Yeah.
02:17:39.36	Bruce Huff	was so cumbersome that anybody who attempts to follow that code in a conditional use permit is just Thank you.
02:17:52.24	Mike	So,
02:17:52.44	Bruce Huff	Bye.
02:17:52.48	Mike	Thank you.
02:17:52.51	Bruce Huff	Thank you.
02:17:52.56	Mike	or not could be.
02:17:52.59	Bruce Huff	We would be intimidated by the entire process.
02:17:55.08	Mike	So should we take away the...
02:17:58.11	Bruce Huff	I think that the context of applied arts should be looked at, I think suggestion is correct. They should be looked at in the context of the marine arts and the industrial arts and all the other arts and the fine arts
02:18:09.88	Unknown	there are.
02:18:12.41	Bruce Huff	But the biggest difference between them is not only the inclusionary, it's the permitting process.
02:18:18.62	Unknown	Mm-hmm.
02:18:19.44	Bruce Huff	And that somehow needs to become less formal and less intimidating and less costly, I might add, and less time consuming. So, Whether that's done through zoning administrators or some other process or a lesser process, I don't know. But it really needs to be looked at because the conditional use permitting thing is as big as And the applied art uses I don't think are A huge deal because they do incorporate design industry. Thank you.
02:18:51.39	Unknown	Yeah.
02:18:52.43	Bruce Huff	Yeah.
02:18:52.87	Unknown	Thank you.
02:18:53.41	Unknown	Thank you Bruce. What if we just try to keep it a little bit simpler and say recommend that applied RCP analyze and zoning requirements be revised appropriately?
02:19:03.62	Mike	or something? I think it's the context. Too big? No. It should be bigger. Increase. I mean, talk about all the arts, fine arts and applied arts, because they're married to each other. They recommend all arts.
02:19:03.66	Unknown	to that.
02:19:03.98	Unknown	Bye.
02:19:04.03	Unknown	Thank you. Too big.
02:19:17.14	Unknown	They recommend all arts.
02:19:20.45	Mike	Amen.
02:19:21.81	Unknown	All arts categories.
02:19:23.05	Mike	Yeah, reexamine the relationship of the various art communities. I see if there's any recommendations. It's sort of, you know, with the exception of the CU thing, it's sort of, ain't broke, don't fix it.
02:19:39.85	Unknown	I recommend all the R's categories be examined and as the requirements be revised appropriately.
02:19:45.02	Unknown	Thank you.
02:19:45.03	Tom	Thank you. as we can. Thank you. which is end process.
02:19:48.76	Unknown	Thank you.
02:19:48.86	Mike	Okay, process, in process. I think we do have a good question.
02:19:48.88	Unknown	Mm-hmm.
02:19:49.17	Tom	Thank you.
02:19:49.34	Unknown	Thank you.
02:19:49.49	Unknown	THE FAMILY.
02:19:49.56	Tom	In process. Thank you. Thank you.
02:19:52.93	Mike	Thank you.
02:19:52.95	Ray	Yeah.
02:19:53.33	Mike	Good.
02:19:53.59	Unknown	Thank you.
02:19:55.02	Ray	I think on the applied arts, you've got the question of the inclusionary.
02:20:00.08	Unknown	Right.
02:20:01.37	Ray	But on the applied arts, you've also got the fact Industrial has evolved such that, as Bruce said, many of the applied arts are, and as you said, Tom, many of the applied arts are in fact industrial uses, right? Dare I say modern. Even, right, some are old fashioned. So those are the, but that's the sort of thing that that analysis will.
02:20:12.81	Unknown	ART.
02:20:13.16	Unknown	Thank you.
02:20:13.23	Unknown	Right.
02:20:27.59	Unknown	Okay, recommend all arts categories and processes be examined and zoning requirements be revised appropriately.
02:20:35.45	Mike	The President.
02:20:35.66	Leon	And processes. Did you say recommendations for that?
02:20:41.40	Unknown	Okay, recommend all arts categories be examined in zoning requirements and processes be revised appropriately.
02:20:49.48	Mike	if, yeah, Thank you. Consider any any and consider revisions. How about consider revisions?
02:20:52.47	Unknown	Thank you.
02:20:52.48	Unknown	it.
02:20:52.82	Unknown	Thank you.
02:20:52.97	Unknown	Thank you.
02:20:56.57	Unknown	be considered for aversion.
02:20:57.95	Mike	Amen.
02:21:00.80	Unknown	Anybody in discreement with that?
02:21:06.13	Mike	You can read anything now, right? I'm not. That's easy to wear everybody down, then you want the big vote. Okay, let's move on to eight.
02:21:08.78	Unknown	Is this your bedtime?
02:21:09.88	Unknown	everybody down.
02:21:17.83	Unknown	Okay, he wants to take on number eight.
02:21:21.64	Tony Badger	i would like to to reduce i think that i thought a lot about this particular thing everybody knows this only take
02:21:28.54	Unknown	Does everybody read this? I read it. Is everything ready? If you will. Okay.
02:21:30.62	Tony Badger	Is everybody ready? If you will. Okay. I'm going to go.
02:21:33.61	Unknown	Thank you. I think we get right into the discussion.
02:21:36.10	Tony Badger	All right, so basically I have a concept here that may solve all the problems down there. I don't even know if this could be done. And all I'm asking is that the consultants consider the idea of a special zone starting from the Spalding wooden boatworks going south down to the Bayside boatworks bordering on the wetlands there and calling that a special marine center zoning because really everything in there right now has been functioning for decades and it's a is a I think an ideal possibility to have a world-class maritime center I that would be unique and and I think it would be the international significance in the restoration of classic wooden yachts And I think people from all over the world would use this facility, not just local boats. And going to the boat show at Tebron last Sunday, there were boats there where millions of dollars literally had been spent in their restoration. And I think we have the school there. We have the craftsmen there. The Freida was at the show. The Freida reflects the kind of enthusiasm our community has. And I would like our consultants to consider a wider concept than just trying to protect and save those ways, but maybe a larger vision for that corner of the waterfront to have a unique zoning. I don't even know if it's feasible with that. That's the idea I put out.
02:23:29.98	Leon	you
02:23:30.03	Unknown	you Yes.
02:23:40.54	Tony Badger	That's owned by the Lemon family.
02:23:46.30	Leon	you
02:23:46.38	Unknown	Can you turn on?
02:23:46.97	Leon	Europe.
02:23:47.31	Unknown	Mike, please.
02:23:47.97	Leon	I'm sorry.
02:23:48.81	Unknown	.
02:23:48.89	Leon	Male Speaker 1, you were proposing a separate zone category for that, is that right? Male Speaker 1, yeah, yes, a maritime center.
02:23:54.33	Tony Badger	Yeah, yes, a maritime center. Maritime center is only because you have a yacht harbor there. You have all six historic and working marine railways there. You have the Spalding wooden boatworks, which is not part of the Lemon property, but it's adjacent, immediately adjacent to it. But the rest of the area in consideration belongs to the Lemon family.
02:24:21.14	Leon	So it kind of reflects the tradition of boat building and Sausalito and marine character?
02:24:27.69	Tony Badger	Well, it has – what it does is, first of all, it's been in operation beginning with the launching of the Liberty Chips during World War II. And those railways, ever since then, have actually been used in many ways. The Bayside Boat Works does maintenance on the ferries. The San Francisco Fire Boats has made several diesel-electric conversions to the ferries. They service boats much larger than anything a travel lift could lift. And then, of course, you have Aquamassan, which builds the houseboats and services them. It's the only facility that can lift those out of the water.
02:25:08.29	Unknown	So this is not new information at all, so I want to just. Yeah, right.
02:25:12.53	Tony Badger	Yeah, right. OK, well, anyway, I'm trying to answer his question. And that's the answer.
02:25:18.99	Unknown	Is there any, thank you, Tony, any other committee members have any comments? Yeah, I do.
02:25:24.69	Bill	My comment is that we and a lot of other people have been paying lip service to preserving the marine rails as a historic object. I think that's all very nice, but I don't think they should be fossilized and just sort of put up there as a as a remnant of a period of time that is historically significant.
02:25:45.68	Unknown	Amen. Thank you.
02:25:50.53	Bill	I think they are a working group. object which doesn't exist anywhere else in the Bay Area and is viable and have been viable.
02:25:56.86	Unknown	It doesn't exist.
02:26:02.98	Bill	And I think Tony's notion of going from Spalding all the way down to Bayside Boatworks and doing something that has precedence in defining what amounts to an overlay zone that says we, this committee, this town is committed to a
02:26:25.93	Unknown	Missy.
02:26:29.36	Unknown	Thank you. Thank you.
02:26:29.59	Bill	Thank you. a future for a maritime center. And I read Tony's letter and I would basically add one line to it. which would be that I think a commitment to such a unique and valuable resource would continue Sausalito's recognized legacy as a Maritime Center and enhance the character and prestige of the community itself. way more than new bicycle paths or anything else would do. if there is a commitment to saying That is, or has been and has the potential of continuing to be, a productive, continuation of the Maritime boat building, boat repair, boat whatever. legacy that this town really has. and is part of the soul. that that there is, I'm sure, a way to define that zone that would survive any legal challenge that says it constitutes a taking of property rights.
02:27:38.88	Unknown	So it would be a zone within, it would not be part of the W zone, it would be a different zone. It would be a zone. It would be.
02:27:42.41	Bill	It would be its own overlay on that.
02:27:46.07	Unknown	on that particular area.
02:27:46.81	Unknown	Take care of yourself.
02:27:51.15	Unknown	maritime related uses. That's my piece.
02:27:51.42	Tom	I mean,
02:27:53.06	Bill	I'm all. My pizza.
02:27:55.72	Unknown	So the functional... Go ahead, son.
02:27:58.66	Tom	And what about the historic part? Would we do both or what?
02:28:01.38	Bill	No, I think that you could still go ahead with that, because there is no limitation on
02:28:03.94	Tom	Thank you.
02:28:07.18	Bill	a national monument, if in fact it's what it turns out to be, in terms of its continued use. You know, the cable cards. for instance, our national historic monument and they continue to be used. It just seems to me that that if out of this committee nothing else comes that is
02:28:33.91	Unknown	useful.
02:28:34.79	Bill	No, not useful so much, but, you know, it is a contribution to the the prestige and the the, the soul of this town. that identifying that kind of a use which already exists and saying we are going to support it. whatever happens around it, is very... So I've got to say...
02:29:01.81	Unknown	I have a question. I mean, I like the concept of it. I can imagine it, and I can imagine it being an amazing... an amazing thing that would be fantastic for Sausalito. Let's say you zoned it maritime, and for whatever reason, nobody can make it work. I mean, right now, they said what works is not any, it's not pretty, it's not necessarily anything you want anybody to come see. So what is it like in the future in terms of I mean, to me it sort of sounds like a potentially publicly funded project in order for it to be long-term successful. And I would be concerned about that.
02:29:43.42	Bill	I would be concerned about that. No, it doesn't have to be. And, you know, if it happens, it might, you know, I've long been wondering why we haven't heard from the... Lemons? from Flinders and from those people, you know.
02:30:11.94	Unknown	Lindner, Scully, those people, you know.
02:30:15.08	Bill	Yeah, you know, and I now, I think, know why. And I have it on.
02:30:15.33	Unknown	You know, yeah, you know.
02:30:23.92	Bill	reasonably good authority from a source that wants to remain obvious for obvious reasons that Um, the least they have with lemons. essentially terminates their lease if they protest any development proposal made by the property owner in the future. or if they in any way Um, interfere with his perceived rights in future development. So we won't hear from them. So it's up to us. It's up to this town. to propose something like this, which I know would withstand any kind of potential legal challenge that that owner would bring.
02:31:14.78	Unknown	I like the idea.
02:31:16.66	Tom	I like the idea. I think it's a great idea if it could work the principle. We would have to define it in such a way, though, that, again, it would be small boat building, antique boats, non-polluting, because I could see Lem and some of it, they'd say, okay, we'll give you something. We're going to build. Thank you. fiberglass boats that are going to pollute the air, you know, and stuff that's totally – I just would want to make sure that we could define it limited enough that we make it the way Tony would like.
02:31:40.03	Bill	Limited. That's part of the definition. I mean, if we're going to think about it, we're talking about a vision here. If this is, in fact, something that could be pursued. Certainly the consultants know about this kind of thing, too.
02:31:56.60	Mike	The year 70 might be a bit of a template for this.
02:32:00.16	Bill	And there may in fact be, you know, I don't know what the zoning is in Cape Harbor and Port Orph, whatever it is, and all those places and so on. But somehow it seems to me we have the opportunity.
02:32:09.76	Unknown	.
02:32:09.79	Unknown	but
02:32:12.71	Unknown	Thank you.
02:32:12.82	Unknown	Thank you.
02:32:15.51	Bill	TO make happen what lots of people are saying they want to hear, want to see happen.
02:32:22.97	Mike	So I took the liberty of editing your last paragraph. And it would say something like this, that we give a challenge to our consultants or the charge to our consultants to include a consideration of zoning an area in the marineship that could be called the Maritime Center and would incorporate businesses and marine businesses and others who are operating there now to create a facility to save the historic resource and create a facility that they have images or something like that. What do you think?
02:33:05.04	Unknown	Yeah, exactly. We want to create, I think, we already have. Yeah, yeah. It's just that people don't have any leases. They're investing their own money and their lease could be terminated.
02:33:05.72	Mike	Thank you. Thank you.
02:33:09.38	Mike	Yeah, yeah. preserved. Yeah. Well, you have to understand that at the end of the day, we can't protect that. But what we can do is protect the asset with the zoning class. Okay? Yeah. So it might be that we can't do anything about the people.
02:33:28.65	Tony Badger	what what my feeling about it is is right now i believe the present property owner is really hoping and always has been hoping ever since he didn't purchase the property they would get a higher zoning in other words they're looking to put the in fact i've seen a drawing great big office buildings right on the water okay i've seen it with my own eyes i I saw it seven years ago. So if that was taken away, that possibility, if they decided to invest in the harbor they have there and give those – their tenants decent protection and start preserving some of the historic buildings they already have there, just put a little money into it, the thing is already paying the bills for him. It's doing well, even despite these tremendous obstacles he's operating under. I think if he once saw that possibility of going away, in other words, we take it away, that I think he'd start supporting what's there now in a much more aggressive way.
02:33:38.98	Unknown	Thank you.
02:34:32.07	Mike	Bye. With all due respect, Tony, I think we have to put him over here, and he's not part of the consideration of what we're going to do. That's right. What we're going to do is we have an asset. The city of Sausalito has assets. Right. And one of the assets we have is the ability to – one of the processes we have to enhance our assets is the process of zoning. And we can decide where we want retail. We can decide where we want houses. We can decide where we want office buildings. We can even designate certain areas that we want to preserve historically and otherwise by creating protections. So I think that what we do here is we focus on what we want, what we want down there. And when it comes time for zoning changes and so on, everybody will have their say in front of the Planning Commission and the City Council, including the landowners and everybody else that wants to come and talk about it. But I think our recommendation is to just do what we can to preserve. So I like your idea. I think the creating a marine center would be a terrific idea because it's already there, basically. So we're just preserving and protecting.
02:34:40.66	Unknown	Right.
02:34:45.43	Unknown	Thank you.
02:34:45.45	Unknown	Right.
02:35:37.36	Tony Badger	So I'm sorry. I think these guys, I know things they've done in the past. And I think they're in a unique position to give us the ideas and the feasibility of this and how we might pursue it. I think this is one area I'm very confident we would get some feedback. It would be very valuable.
02:35:55.83	Mike	They've got a lot of experiences in Venetia, so there's precedent for all of them.
02:35:59.93	Ray	Okay, right. So I think we're all in pretty much agreement here. So the question is, it's now almost quarter after nine. How do we want to do the last item in the memo to reflect what's in? Well, we have the last item in the memo.
02:36:15.41	Unknown	Well, we have the last item in the memo, and we also never finished the first item in the memo.
02:36:18.46	Ray	Yeah. Thank you.
02:36:20.29	Tom	Bye.
02:36:20.34	Ray	Bye.
02:36:20.47	Unknown	So what do we want to do with number eight?
02:36:20.49	Tom	Thank you.
02:36:20.52	Ray	We've.
02:36:20.98	Tom	So let's do with number eight I wish for number eight all I would do is add a Five put zoning dash see Tony badger letter dated such-and-such And that's what because you want recommendations on this thing right? Yeah, exactly and you just add zoning because we're looking at the historical part and you know it's just a consideration and
02:36:33.21	Ray	Exactly.
02:36:42.68	Unknown	Refer to this, right? Yeah.
02:36:44.30	Tom	Yeah, I would specifically attach and reference Tony's letter.
02:36:44.75	Unknown	Bye.
02:36:44.81	Unknown	Bye.
02:36:44.86	Unknown	We have a job.
02:36:45.38	Unknown	you
02:36:45.45	Unknown	Thank you.
02:36:51.89	Unknown	Um...
02:36:56.67	Unknown	Okay. I'm just wondering about... Thank you.
02:36:58.24	Tony Badger	uh,
02:36:58.78	Unknown	Thank you.
02:36:58.91	Tony Badger	Thank you.
02:36:59.47	Unknown	I wonder if it could be a little bit more succinct and just kind of put it in number five and not necessarily make it part, just see Tony's letter. considered maritime zoning.
02:37:10.81	Leon	Actually, that might be a good idea. I think so.
02:37:13.39	Unknown	I think so, for various reasons. Considering maritime zoning within the marine ship area, within this area?
02:37:15.79	Leon	Yeah. to the next day. Thank you.
02:37:21.90	Bill	Consider a, quote, maritime center zone, unquote. Is it a zone or a zone?
02:37:22.39	Mike	Yeah.
02:37:22.47	Unknown	Thank you.
02:37:26.76	Unknown	Yep. Do you want to use the little...
02:37:28.68	Mike	I'd be happy to give this to Lily, but it says include the consideration of zoning of the maritime center within the Marineship. There's more ways this can be accomplished.
02:37:45.35	Unknown	Senator America? Okay.
02:37:46.03	Mike	Thank you. Okay. Period. That's all we need to say. Okay. Anybody disagree with that?
02:37:48.44	Tom	Thank you.
02:37:48.46	Unknown	OK. Anybody disagree with that?
02:37:49.98	Tom	What did you put in it?
02:37:51.28	Unknown	Thank you.
02:37:51.29	Mike	Number five oh put it in
02:37:51.31	Unknown	Thank you.
02:37:51.36	Tom	Thank you.
02:37:51.41	Unknown	Number five.
02:37:51.99	Tom	All right. Thank you. I don't know. Because the more I look at it, it starts out the Marine Rail, so that's a good tool. No, no, no, no.
02:37:56.90	Leon	Thank you.
02:37:59.31	Mike	Thank you. Take that out.
02:38:00.20	Tom	Yeah. to the water.
02:38:01.03	Mike	.
02:38:01.37	Tom	Thank you.
02:38:01.43	Mike	Thank you. I like the whole idea of the concept of a center, of a zoning center.
02:38:05.86	Tony Badger	I would still like to have my letter referenced in that recommendation so it's not lost.
02:38:10.21	Mike	in that recommendation? Well, your letter is part of the public record. So it would be... Yeah, they'll have that.
02:38:16.54	Unknown	Yeah, they'll have that. THE END OF
02:38:17.52	Leon	Thank you.
02:38:19.39	Unknown	Okay. So I'm sorry I might have missed this, but number eight is going to be replaced, or we're just adding number five per Tom's recommendation.
02:38:30.55	Mike	we're adding a number five well it doesn't think yeah
02:38:32.18	Unknown	No, no, no. Thank you.
02:38:33.94	Tom	Yeah.
02:38:34.61	Unknown	I'm sorry.
02:38:34.78	Tom	Thank you.
02:38:34.80	Unknown	Yeah.
02:38:34.92	Tom	preserving the marine
02:38:34.93	Unknown	or the No, no, no, no. I'm talking about number eight. It's late. Number eight has got four options for consideration. And we're saying we're adding a fifth option for consideration I don't think so. No, we're changing number eight entirely, and we're just saying.
02:38:47.39	Unknown	Thank you.
02:38:47.49	Bill	Thank you.
02:38:47.50	Unknown	Thank you.
02:38:47.57	Bill	Thank you.
02:38:47.69	Unknown	Thank you.
02:38:47.72	Bill	I don't think so.
02:38:47.96	Unknown	Thank you.
02:38:47.98	Mike	THANK YOU. Thank you. So,
02:38:48.31	Bill	Thank you.
02:38:49.16	Mike	Thank you.
02:38:52.09	Unknown	We're saying Tony's thing. Mike's provision.
02:38:52.19	Bill	We're saying Tony's thing. Tom has a point. I mean, the rails, this is part of the problem. The rails have become kind of a sacred cow. But they're being pursued already, if I'm not mistaken, for their historic designation.
02:39:01.53	Unknown	Take the...
02:39:02.79	Unknown	Take the rails out.
02:39:07.96	Unknown	Thank you.
02:39:07.97	Adam Carvazzi	Thank you.
02:39:09.17	Unknown	Thank you.
02:39:09.19	Adam Carvazzi	All right.
02:39:11.74	Bill	Mm-hmm.
02:39:13.10	Mike	Thank you.
02:39:15.40	Nicole Warren	We haven't gotten that direction yet from you.
02:39:18.17	Mike	Thank you. You don't need that direction from Rush. You need it from the council, don't you? The planning commission? Well, I... The city manager?
02:39:26.45	Adam Carvazzi	I think we asked that question in
02:39:26.50	Mike	Thank you.
02:39:26.55	Bruce Huff	Thank you.
02:39:26.81	Unknown	Bye.
02:39:26.86	Mike	I think I'll see you next time.
02:39:29.76	Adam Carvazzi	originally part of that group of questions 12 questions so that we could accelerate this to the council but we didn't get that direction and we actually what was a different
02:39:39.40	Mike	Why don't we say here to consider the zoning of the area as a maritime center, including the historic assets therein. Right.
02:39:50.53	Bill	Yeah.
02:39:51.34	Tony Badger	Yeah, this is, you know, it also includes the area I said, specifically from Spalding down to the marsh or the water.
02:39:51.70	Bill	you
02:39:51.86	Mike	Bye.
02:39:51.88	Bill	Amen.
02:39:51.93	Mike	Yeah.
02:39:55.81	Bill	you
02:39:55.86	Unknown	Thank you.
02:39:55.88	Bill	All right.
02:39:55.97	Mike	Bye.
02:40:00.10	Unknown	Okay. So consider the area between smelting bulwarks and the marsh. for, let's take it from here Mike.
02:40:08.59	Mike	to include the area as a maritime center and explore ways of this be, including preservation of the historic assets, which includes everything, including the rails and buildings and everything else. Okay, and a bit discreet. And how this could be accomplished.
02:40:12.07	Unknown	Thank you.
02:40:20.50	Unknown	I should. Okay. Anybody discreet?
02:40:26.73	Mike	Yes.
02:40:27.52	Unknown	Yeah.
02:40:27.57	Mike	It's good. Does that work? Definitely. That's right. Okay.
02:40:30.29	Unknown	Okay, I think we're all in agreement for that wording. Okay, so we're done with number eight here Let's get back to number one. I think in kind of thinking about working through all these things I'm thinking number one is a little bit more kind of what sets the vision And where do we leave off I mean I think the last version that we had was Was number two?
02:40:30.31	Mike	I don't know. That's true.
02:40:32.62	Unknown	Yeah.
02:40:54.54	Unknown	that the roadmap be revised to reflect the analysis of the Marinship Planning Area with consideration to its unique characteristics to be covered by the General Plan.
02:41:04.26	Tony Badger	I have a simpler deal. The Marinship planning area should be examined with the goal of incorporating its zoning within the general plan.
02:41:17.79	Mike	See it again.
02:41:19.95	Tony Badger	The marineship planning area should be examined with the goal of incorporating its zoning within the general plan.
02:41:30.79	Ray	policies and programs, or something like that. Add policies and programs to zoning, and you've probably got it. Policies, programs. Programs, policies, and zoning. There you go.
02:41:32.56	Unknown	or something like that.
02:41:33.33	Unknown	Yeah.
02:41:38.48	Unknown	program.
02:41:39.00	Unknown	All right.
02:41:39.04	Mike	Thank you.
02:41:39.17	Unknown	So,
02:41:39.22	Mike	All right.
02:41:39.29	Unknown	Thank you. Bye. Do we need the concept that we will no longer have with the Rinship Specific Plan?
02:41:46.83	Mike	Just let it take care of itself. I think it'll just slowly disappear. Okay, so Tony, what's your...
02:41:48.25	Ray	So...
02:41:49.25	Unknown	I think it will be. Thank you.
02:41:50.48	Unknown	Thank you.
02:41:50.50	Unknown	Holy God. Thank you. period of sense. Okay, so Tony, what's your revision again? A relic of the past.
02:41:54.55	Mike	Thank you.
02:41:55.49	Tony Badger	The marineship planning area should be examined with the goal of incorporating its zoning within the general plan.
02:42:05.51	Unknown	its zoning policies and its programs policies
02:42:09.02	Ray	Thank you.
02:42:09.04	Unknown	policies.
02:42:09.04	Mike	policies, programs, policies.
02:42:09.87	Ray	Programs, policies and zoning.
02:42:12.11	Mike	He's on.
02:42:12.37	Unknown	.
02:42:12.43	Ray	I'm sorry.
02:42:12.49	Unknown	It's part of the general plan.
02:42:12.55	Ray	part of the job.
02:42:14.00	Mike	I think that's perfect.
02:42:14.09	Ray	Thank you.
02:42:16.97	Tony Badger	Thank you. Now we can go home.
02:42:19.03	Mike	I think that's right.
02:42:19.05	Tony Badger	doing well. As I potentially revive.
02:42:21.33	Unknown	Bye.
02:42:21.36	Ray	potentially
02:42:22.19	Mike	Now, is everybody, I think this is really important, is everybody at the table kind of feeling okay about all the items we've discussed tonight? Does anybody have any gross questions?
02:42:24.03	Unknown	should be examined.
02:42:34.88	Mike	you know, issues or things that you can't live with. So are we kind of unanimous? Excellent.
02:42:42.40	Tony Badger	Yes. Thank you.
02:42:44.02	Mike	I feel like we've... I'm okay with everything that we've said. I am.
02:42:45.34	Tony Badger	Thank you. you
02:42:45.44	Ray	I'm OK with that. I'm OK with everything that we've said there. I am. OK, good. The one thing that might be missing is that Bill emphasized the important point that Adam made in his memo around site analysis and the whole basic.
02:42:59.28	Bill	Thank you. Oh, boy.
02:43:03.01	Ray	We haven't made a recommendation. I think you were proposing, maybe Adam, a separate recommendation to sort of emphasize you need to do some basic planning.
02:43:07.14	Unknown	Thank you.
02:43:07.16	Unknown	Separate.
02:43:07.77	Unknown	recommend that
02:43:08.53	Unknown	to
02:43:13.28	Unknown	Well, these are all, I mean, everything that we're writing in this memo is for them to include in their report, which is a series of, which is a roadmap. Thank you. right right so um... as they need to go
02:43:23.93	Bill	I was thinking about those points. Yeah, no, and I was picking up on some of the comments that Adam had in his email, which, you know, when he talked about...
02:43:26.18	Unknown	and I was picking up
02:43:33.53	Bill	Okay. No one has done, no one yet, has done that full-fledged, up-to-date site analysis that takes a look at that entire process. planning area and, you know, I mean, how many acres is it? Does anybody know off the top of their head?
02:43:50.65	Mike	Thank you. Yeah.
02:43:54.12	Mike	100 or something.
02:43:54.75	Bill	No, more than that.
02:43:55.90	Mike	Cory, is it? Thank you.
02:43:57.51	Bill	Thank you. You know, what's the, you know, how much of the acreage is vacant? How much of it is? Underwater. Two other? I guess two other. How much is underwater? You know, what? I mean, in real estate, that doesn't matter, right?
02:44:08.33	Mike	I'm not saying, you know, what, you know,
02:44:11.15	Ray	I mean, in real estate, that'd be
02:44:12.94	Mike	Thank you.
02:44:12.97	Ray	Thank you.
02:44:14.47	Bill	Under here?
02:44:14.54	Ray	Sure. there at all. My only point is to follow up on that. Do we need to make a point that that needs to get done?
02:44:15.55	Bill	And... Yeah. Yeah, I think the point ought to be made that there were only two, I think, studies that they talked about. One was economic, which It doesn't mean anything to me unless you define what you mean by economics. If you get that guy from wherever it is that comes in and does his business economic thing, you know what he's going to say. And the other one, I think, had to do with infrastructure. Well, there's more to it than that. Yeah.
02:44:42.08	Unknown	I'm not sure.
02:44:49.19	Bill	You know, and... We ought to be sitting here with with. in the middle of the table a big plan that we can point to and talk about. And that's just one part of it. So I don't know. whether there's anything in here other than the first statement and adding something in there about doing the full site analysis.
02:45:13.60	Unknown	Is there any possibility to have been done in the past?
02:45:16.83	Bill	It would have been done. I mean, that's essentially part of a general plan procedure. But it hasn't.
02:45:22.41	Mike	Probably would. You've probably seen everything that was done. Yeah.
02:45:29.36	Unknown	Are you suggesting that we add a point in this memo to say that the recommendation is that a full-site analysis be performed? That simple?
02:45:35.10	Bill	Thank you.
02:45:40.45	Bill	That's simple. But I think that's, in a way, that's part of the first statement. You're talking about an overall vision. You just simply throw it in there somehow in that
02:45:44.54	Unknown	AND I'M GOING TO BE
02:45:45.01	Unknown	you.
02:45:45.68	Unknown	vision.
02:45:46.26	Unknown	You just simply,
02:45:50.42	Bill	in Tony's abbreviated statement. You put a little parenthetical little line in there that says, and the necessary and appropriate site analysis.
02:45:59.96	Unknown	The ownership planning area should be examined with a necessary and appropriate set analysis with zoning policies and programs as part of the general plan.
02:46:09.53	Bill	You got it. Yeah. Thank you.
02:46:11.45	Unknown	Thank you.
02:46:11.47	Unknown	Thank you.
02:46:11.50	Unknown	THE END OF THE END OF THE
02:46:11.70	Unknown	Thank you.
02:46:12.65	Bill	Yes.
02:46:13.07	Unknown	Good. Did we get that, Lily? Okay, so we're off to the races. And I think any of these things will, there'll obviously be discussion with the consultants when they get this memo and they show up here. And that's another conversation too for things to further change based on any kind of input.
02:46:30.94	Unknown	Okay.
02:46:31.03	Unknown	Thank you. Yeah. Um... All right.
02:46:35.04	Unknown	All right. you
02:46:35.72	Unknown	Thank you. speak up in a public comment no okay great i was
02:46:37.79	Ray	Yeah, they put it in. I just wanted to actually thank Adam for writing that memo because I think there was a lot of very valuable information in that. Thank you very much.
02:46:45.39	Unknown	Yeah. Thank you. information. Thank you, Adam. And thank you also, Tony, for your memo as well.
02:46:50.16	Ray	Yeah.
02:46:50.38	Unknown	Thank you.
02:46:50.42	Ray	Thank you. Yeah.
02:46:53.69	Unknown	Of course.
02:46:55.02	Unknown	you
02:46:55.09	Unknown	THE END OF THE END OF THE
02:46:55.38	Unknown	Thank you.
02:46:55.41	Unknown	Thank you. Bye.
02:46:56.71	Unknown	Okay, so meeting is adjourned.
02:46:57.17	Unknown	Okay.
02:47:01.27	Unknown	by the next week. Our next meeting is July 23rd.
02:47:04.24	Unknown	Sure.
02:47:04.27	Mike	Yeah.
02:47:05.74	Unknown	same time same place I thank everybody for hammering this out. Keep pushing. And we did all agree on all those things, except I disagreed on that one thing, but it's on the record.
02:47:21.43	Unknown	I'm not.

City Council Meeting - June 30, 2014

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Meeting Transcript