Sausalito City Council Meeting - September 22, 2014

Meeting Transcript

Time	Speaker	Text
00:00:04.00	Mayor Withee	Good morning and welcome to the Housing Element Subcommittee meeting for Monday, September 22nd. Lily, would you call the roll, please?
00:00:16.06	Lily	Planning Commissioner Cleveland Knowles. Here. Planning Commission Chair John Cox. Here. Vice Mayor Theodoros. Here. Mayor Withee.
00:00:24.65	Mayor Withee	here. Here. So, Lily, over to you. Perhaps you could tell us how we've just got the agenda as a subcommittee review of the whole thing. We do have Appendix D in more detail to go through. How do you want us to do this this morning?
00:00:44.28	Lily	So as you recall, we met last Thursday night, and we went over chapters one through four of the draft, the red lines to the housing element. And the subcommittee requested to hold this meeting today to go over specifically Appendix D and anything else that might be outstanding before we take all of the comments from the subcommittee, wrap them back up into the document, and send it along to the City Council for September 30th or October 7th. We have received edits from Planning Commissioner Cleveland Knowles on Appendix D, and they are in front of you today, so you can consider those edits and direct staff to make those
00:01:26.70	Mayor Withee	So we're going to start with Appendix D, should we? That would probably be both. Okay. And then we should also perhaps briefly review, is there anything that we need to do, communicate to the public?
00:01:29.08	Lily	That would probably be bad for me.
00:01:42.31	Mayor Withee	in connection with the workshop that was held. So maybe you could address that. So we'll move straight on to Appendix D. I have a structural question about that before we get into any details. We have actually amended our housing element, our 2009 to 2014 housing element, which removed program 8B. the horizontal mixed use program. So In Appendix B, should we not be reporting on the actual progress against that element, which is now our certified approved element, which is the one that's amended. So if that's the case, why is program 8B even mentioned? Because it's no longer part of our element.
00:02:44.24	Unknown	I'd have to agree. Mayor Whitty, I think that makes sense.
00:02:49.49	Susan	I thought, if I can. I thought the purpose of Appendix D was to evaluate the accomplishments of the 2009 to housing element, and the HMU was part of that. But...
00:03:03.82	Mayor Withee	But we modified, we amended it to remove it, and the state certified that amendment. I'm using words like certified, but possibly inappropriately. So right now, our current existing 2009 to 2014 element does not contain it.
00:03:22.82	Susan	Right.
00:03:23.24	Mayor Withee	by amendment.
00:03:25.52	Susan	Just if you're evaluating the entire period of 2009 to 2014, it would seem to me that we would note amendments made during that time. But I defer to the consultant really about
00:03:34.46	Lily	Thank you.
00:03:34.48	Jeffrey Chase	Thank you.
00:03:34.63	Unknown	Thank you.
00:03:34.83	Jeffrey Chase	.
00:03:35.03	Lily	I...
00:03:35.42	Jeffrey Chase	I've... Thank you.
00:03:36.89	Lily	Thank you.
00:03:36.91	Jeffrey Chase	THE END OF
00:03:36.98	Lily	Thank you.
00:03:37.35	Jeffrey Chase	Exactly.
00:03:38.02	Lily	Yeah. of accomplishment.
00:03:38.93	Susan	Thank you.
00:03:38.95	Lily	to someone.
00:03:39.46	Susan	Thank you.
00:03:39.52	Lily	Thank you.
00:03:40.45	Jeffrey Chase	It might be a matter of formatting. I would agree with you, Ray, that in this going through the table and stating what the programs are and then reporting on the evaluation, it really shouldn't be in there because you can only have one element at a time, and our adopted element doesn't have that. But in the narrative section, we could definitely explain the changes that took place that resulted in the removal of that program.
00:04:07.28	Mayor Withee	Okay.
00:04:07.52	Unknown	Thank you.
00:04:07.97	Unknown	Sounds good.
00:04:08.97	Jeff	Yeah. My only comment to that would be that our adopted housing, the reason for the enactment of HMU and VMU was in large measure because of criticism of our initial draft element with respect to making available low income housing. hate to continue to have that be a lightning rod by highlighting in our narrative that we first adopted it and then removed it.
00:04:41.68	Lily	Karen, is there anything you want to add to that?
00:04:44.31	Karen	Yeah, and I actually didn't get to completely hear what Jeff said, but . It's definitely one of those gray areas. I mean, we are reporting on your implementation of your adopted housing element and the fact that it was amended just months ago. Um, I chose to leave that 8B in there because your adopted element, of course, was supposed 2009-2014 period And so the fact that there were these minor changes made to it, Thank you. 2014. and I thought, you know, Again, it's a gray area. You could go either way, but I felt like the brief explanation here on why the HMU is no longer was appropriate.
00:05:54.91	Susan	So is this the only place that the discussion of the HMU now exists in the entire housing element?
00:06:06.45	Karen	I think so, yes.
00:06:10.44	Jeff	I think it was removed from the list of programs.
00:06:19.99	Ray	Well, I think Jeff's recommendation is a good one. First of all, it doesn't fit in here. Review of accomplishments under the 2009-2014 housing element. It's not part of it. It just stuck there, and then when you see it, it...
00:06:28.44	Mayor Withee	It's not.
00:06:28.51	Unknown	Thank you.
00:06:28.56	Mayor Withee	PART OF THE CITY.
00:06:33.32	Ray	It calls attention to itself. But being in the narrative section would be, you know, here's what we've done. Here's history of it. I think we had a history of the different hearings we've had, and you might just say as part of this we amended it or something on that order.
00:06:52.03	Jeff	But one other thing I would point out is that The housing element had not been adopted for very long before we amended it to remove the HMU. And you know, I, It's certainly no action was taken pursuant to the HMU before its removal. And in fact, it was when we were considering enacting the enabling ordinance that we removed it. So it existed as a program, but we had never enacted the ordinance giving it teeth to be effective.
00:07:37.33	Unknown	And so?
00:07:37.53	Jeff	And so... Is this going... you said this was going to go to the City Council. Is this document... is the housing element going to go to the Planning Commission before it goes to the City Council?
00:07:39.57	Mayor Withee	Thank you.
00:07:49.14	Lily	The process is it will go to the City Council for authorization to send it to the state for the first review, that 60-day mandatory review. Once we get it back from the state, then it would go to the Planning Commission and then on to the City Council, assuming that there's no major changes that are required by the
00:08:10.81	Mayor Withee	Okay. So how should we proceed?
00:08:14.45	Susan	I'm fine with the recommendation to put it in the narrative. I don't exactly know where the narrative is,
00:08:21.54	Mayor Withee	Right.
00:08:22.74	Susan	What section were you thinking of, Jeff?
00:08:26.45	Jeffrey Chase	Within this Appendix D, but outside of the table that is just going through the adopted Programs one by one. Maybe a note in the table that says, you know, see page X for explanation of the history of what was formed in 8B, program 8B. I think it is important to document sort of, like, if you were reading the original adopted element and then you were reading the new one, you'd be like, what happened to 8B? You know, was that a typo? Did they just forget to carry a report? Somewhere we should tell a story of what happened with that so it doesn't become a guessing game five years from now.
00:08:35.44	Unknown	Go, Grandma.
00:08:57.85	Unknown	Yeah.
00:08:57.97	Ray	Thank you.
00:09:07.93	Jeff	So does it really belong in Appendix D, Evaluation of Accomplishments, or does it belong back in I mean...
00:09:17.72	Jeffrey Chase	Thank you. Karen, is there a place other than Appenix-D that you think would be appropriate to tell that story?
00:09:23.54	Jeff	And it could be in the site's inventory where we identify the new site that replaced it, and there could be a footnote, this replaced the HMU.
00:09:34.15	Jeffrey Chase	I like it in Appendix-D because that is sort of, that is the section that explains what's going on with the programs and what things were working and what things weren't working. And obviously 8B didn't work, right? It wasn't effective. So we dropped it not as part of this new cycle but before the end of the previous cycle. So I think this would be the most logical place for it to be.
00:09:59.33	Mayor Withee	I think there's two things. The first is, yes, I agree, there needs to be some words that explain that in our original, the fact that we did go through an amendment and that we dropped a program and replaced it with something else. That's fine. Okay. But I still... actually even now more strongly believe you should not be putting AP in a table which is directly comparing what we've done with our existing housing element. AP is not part of our existing housing element.
00:10:36.88	Karen	I think The more we're talking about it, I think, you know, from a peerist view, we should only be reporting on The programs that are in the recently amended adopted element So that 8A, there is no 8A, it's just eight. it's, you know, mixed use requirements in commercial districts. we described the adoption of the VMU ordinance for half. either in that description of progress or in a simple footnote as Jeff has suggested, We indicate that in the and original adopted 2009-2014 element, there was an A, A, B, and 8B has been eliminated. And just keep it at that.
00:11:31.03	Jeffrey Chase	Another way to think of it that I think might simplify it conceptually is if we'd had that program, if the element had been adopted in 2009 and halfway through the planning period we went through a change and dropped a program and then adopted a new program, you would explain that all within this section, I believe. Right, exactly. It's really, like Karen said, it's really asking you to look at the entire planning period and explain the effectiveness of your programs. And if part of that effectiveness was it actually eliminated a program and substituted with something else, that should show up here. In this case, it feels a little weird because we only had it in there for a few months. I think conceptually we should show it in this section in a way that makes sense. Is that acceptable? Is that acceptable?
00:11:49.40	Unknown	Exactly.
00:11:49.96	Ray	Yeah.
00:11:50.03	Unknown	Exactly.
00:11:50.47	Ray	Like parents.
00:12:16.03	Jeff	A footnote to program eight, I think, is okay. Absolutely.
00:12:21.87	Mayor Withee	Okay, so let's now start at the beginning of Appendix D and go through whatever we wanna go through. I'm assuming that
00:12:37.70	Mayor Withee	Well, I won't assume anything.
00:12:39.85	Susan	So I can just describe my edits. They were mostly grammatical, changing some passive voice to active voice. the use of that versus which. The only substantive comment that I had, I think, was to describe in a couple of places the section on effectiveness seemed a little bit conclusive. So I suggested that staff, if there was any further evidence to support that the program had been effective, that they add a few sentences. supporting that conclusion. I think the only other substantive comment I made was a comment I had made orally at some point where there was a discussion of a fee waiver ordinance to state that perhaps the fee waiver that we had designed in the subcommittee for the VMU could be used more broadly. or as a starting point. But otherwise, I don't think my comments were very substantive.
00:13:46.04	Jeff	Yeah. So, and I had a few substantive comments in addition to the comments noted by Susan.
00:13:56.02	Jeff	So for Program 3, I just think we need to update. I think we decided that was going to be in 2015 instead of by the end of 2014 in terms of when the regulations would be enacted. I think that was part of our discussion last Thursday.
00:14:21.55	Karen	Right, yeah.
00:14:23.34	Jeff	Um,
00:14:25.62	Karen	Thank you.
00:14:30.71	Jeff	And then in program nine,
00:14:37.23	Jeff	Thank you. at an at in the appropriateness section i think we need to delete and will be expanded Well, I guess this is okay to... We're not certain it will be expanded. We are going to evaluate Um, junior second units, but that we did dial that back a bit in our discussion. So I just wanted to be sure that discussion, that last sentence in Program 9 was appropriate to what we actually decided.
00:15:10.83	Susan	Yeah, and I had actually made an edit to make it active, so I think it should say the city will consider expanding it. I didn't reflect that.
00:15:26.71	Mayor Withee	That's it.
00:15:27.02	Ray	consistent with our program.
00:15:28.73	Mayor Withee	Thank you.
00:15:28.75	Ray	Thank you. Thank you.
00:15:28.87	Unknown	Yeah.
00:15:28.88	Ray	Thank you. Okay. And we're expanding it to evaluate.
00:15:35.06	Unknown	MMM.
00:15:35.97	Jeff	Program 10A, under progress, I would say we met instead of we meet. Maybe Susan picked that up. And then, I think we should take... credit for the fact that the ADU ordinance produces affordable housing. And so in the second line of effectiveness, I would add, has been effective in producing affordable housing in Sausalito. Thank you.
00:16:03.75	Ray	An age.
00:16:05.55	Jeff	10 A ADUs.
00:16:07.73	Ray	Amen. Okay, Ted. Yeah, I guess.
00:16:17.16	Unknown	So... in response to that, the thing that popped in my mind that perhaps Karen can respond to is if it's appropriate to say that it's producing affordable housing when we're not de-restricting it or requiring it that it be affordable, if I'm remembering correctly. You know, affordable as a term of art in housing generally relates to meeting those income requirements that are published by HCD, but I think it would be good to have Susan, to Karen responded to that as well.
00:16:51.50	Karen	I think it would probably be more accurate to say in producing lower cost housing opportunities.
00:17:00.68	Jeff	Okay, that's fine.
00:17:02.64	Karen	.
00:17:22.20	Jeff	In Program 11, I just saw a typo. Thank you. In the third line, where liver boards in, I think it needs to say where liver boards were in existence.
00:17:41.37	Jeff	were, yeah, or existed.
00:17:45.87	Jeff	Perfect.
00:17:55.09	Jeff	in Program 23 It says a program to explore options to develop a citywide plan of action for seniors is appropriate to the updated housing element. I thought we had decided not to add anything new. to the updated housing element. The initial objective was to support the efforts of Sausalito Village, and so this kind of new program seemed inconsistent with our... approach that we weren't going to add anything to our housing element. We were just going to continue to work with the programs that were effective.
00:18:38.03	Karen	And you're right, it makes it sound like it's a new program, but really... And it's you know, expansion of this program to explore options to develop a citywide plan of action for seniors.
00:18:49.34	Ray	AND, AND, Yeah. Okay. Yep.
00:18:52.04	Jeff	Thank you.
00:18:56.82	Jeff	And in program 29, we, I think again, had changed that deadline, even though we think we may THE END OF Be close. to enacting those by the end of 2014. I think we changed it in our narrative earlier in the element to in 2015.
00:19:11.43	Ray	you know,
00:19:28.56	Jeff	And then for Program 34, this says that staff has not attended any specific training sessions, but I clearly remember I thought Lily and some staff members went to a seminar and came back and briefed us on it. Perhaps it wasn't the right kind of seminar that's specifically referred to here, but I don't think it's accurate to say that staff has not participated in any training programs because I clearly remember staff attending and briefing us on a training program.
00:20:04.79	Jeffrey Chase	Thank you. Was that the ACD training on housing elements?
00:20:08.80	Lily	Thank you.
00:20:08.84	Unknown	that.
00:20:09.11	Unknown	qualifies, then I don't know.
00:20:11.88	Jeff	I just think we should take credit for everything that we really have done.
00:20:16.73	Unknown	I think you're referring to a program that Lily attended on housing elements. And I don't know if that meets the criteria of affordable housing training. There's more training on the housing element. But why don't we go back and look at the course description and if it's accurate, we can amend that and conclude it.
00:20:28.70	Ray	one.
00:20:34.56	Jeff	Yeah, because, I mean, the whole thing about this housing element Its purpose is to preserve and improve existing affordable housing. That's what we enunciate as the purpose of this housing element. So if she attended a training on housing elements, it seems as though it would by its, by definition, include affordable housing training and education.
00:20:59.39	Jeffrey Chase	and I went to the same training in the South Bay, and you learned a lot about different affordable housing programs and strategies as part of learning about doing the housing element. I would agree.
00:21:16.34	Jeff	Those were my comments.
00:21:20.42	Susan	Should we talk about the comments made by Tricia Smith? Yeah, I'll do that.
00:21:23.78	Unknown	Yeah.
00:21:26.62	Ray	So there are just a couple of small ones on 23. I think the wording should be take out village because it's... rather because it's not Sausalito Village doing it, it's actually Sausalito in general. And I think that's both in the left-hand column and in appropriateness. And then in 24, She notes that the Marin Housing Home Connection in Marin closed its door over a year ago, so we need to, we can't say collaborate with them since they're not actively there anymore.
00:22:04.16	Jeff	Well, we could just take out Marin Housing and say collaborate with Sausalito Village.
00:22:05.87	Ray	Yeah. Well, actually, and that's also, well, we could, Um. See, the problem is it says to actively promote home connection in Moran within Sausalito. Well, there is no home connection, Moran.
00:22:21.93	Jeff	Oh, I would say to promote home sharing and tenant matching opportunities in Sausalito. Yeah. Yeah, we can do that.
00:22:25.78	Ray	Yeah, we can do that. Thank you.
00:22:27.03	Jeff	Thank you.
00:22:27.14	Ray	Amen.
00:22:27.85	Jeff	it.
00:22:28.02	Ray	Thank you. Thank you.
00:22:30.03	Jeff	Sure. For 24, we would change the objective to say, collaborate with Sausalito Village Senior Services to implement and promote home sharing and tenant matching opportunities within Sausalito.
00:22:45.74	Ray	Yeah. Yeah.
00:22:47.43	Mayor Withee	Before we do that, though, what was the objective in our housing element? whether it's right or wrong. It says right here. Right. This is it. Right, but we can't change the objective. Exactly.
00:22:53.93	Ray	It says right here. Right.
00:23:00.41	Mayor Withee	Oh, okay.
00:23:04.13	Jeff	Oh, I'm talking about, I'm thinking of.
00:23:05.74	Karen	THE FAMILY. know. Cha-ching. And Lily, forward me an email from the senior citizen the age-friendly task force and they had some additional information that we could reflect here about their pursuing a senior shared housing program.
00:23:30.06	Jeff	And then for our new element, we, perhaps we would have, revise the objective in the manner we just described.
00:23:48.67	Ray	And. Okay. So are we going to be, they're going to draft it and we're going to review it later or we just turn it over or are we going to try to do that right now in terms of the exact language?
00:23:59.86	Jeff	think they're gonna draft it I think we're giving direction they're gonna draft it and then it's gonna come to the City Council for review and transmittal to HCD as an initial draft
00:24:01.04	Ray	Okay.
00:24:10.27	Jeffrey Chase	to finish. The existing draft has language supporting what we're talking about. The new objective is support organizations that facilitate house sharing and actively promote through senior citizen organizations such as Sausalito Village Senior Services, which should be changed to Sausalito Senior Services.
00:24:29.62	Jeff	And then
00:24:30.16	Jeffrey Chase	you know it
00:24:30.20	Jeff	you know,
00:24:32.95	Ray	Which one are you reading from? I'm sorry.
00:24:34.43	Jeffrey Chase	This is the draft programs that we looked at at the last meeting, and it's program 23. Yeah. The numbering changed a little bit.
00:24:40.98	Ray	Thank you.
00:24:41.00	Unknown	you
00:24:41.25	Ray	Thank you.
00:24:43.41	Unknown	Thank you.
00:24:43.44	Jeff	Yeah.
00:24:43.53	Unknown	Thank you.
00:24:47.14	Jeff	But I think in terms of progress, this last sentence that says, age-friendly Sausalito task force is working with ESC to develop a satellite home-sharing program in Sausalito, that's still progress under our existing, you know, for reporting purposes under Program 24.
00:25:19.37	Jeffrey Chase	I'm sorry, John, I lost track.
00:25:20.96	Jeff	Yeah, so if you look at the very last sentence of Trisha's email,
00:25:24.40	Jeffrey Chase	Thank you.
00:25:26.38	Jeff	I think that could be inserted into progress under Program 24.
00:25:32.28	Ray	The last sentence I have is the only home sharing program in
00:25:35.49	Jeff	That's the second to the last sentence. The last sentence says, Age-Friendly Sausalito Task Force is working with ESC to develop a satellite home sharing program in Sausalito.
00:25:38.27	Ray	Oh, I see.
00:25:45.78	Ray	And that's progress. I think that's progress. We're not saying we're going to do it. We're doing it.
00:25:47.18	Jeff	That's what I think we're not saying we're going to do it. Yeah, we are in the process of doing it. So we should take credit for that under the progress portion.
00:25:49.68	Ray	Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Thank you.
00:25:55.62	Karen	We can incorporate that in.
00:25:57.19	Jeff	Okay.
00:26:02.37	Ray	We don't need the sentence before that, though. Correct. I agree with that.
00:26:04.07	Jeff	Correct. I agree with that.
00:26:12.22	Ray	And by the way, if you look at her email, some of this is in the program. She just made similar edits for 22 and 23 in the goals as well. So if we can just incorporate those.
00:26:58.36	Mayor Withee	OK, is there anything else on appendix? Thank you. D.
00:27:06.24	Jeff	And why are we missing in, oh, I see.
00:27:13.40	Jeff	So we don't have a draft Appendix E. I think you said that would be updated or provided after the community outreach seminar last Saturday. Okay, so you all are just going to draft an appendix C and that will be in the draft that goes to City Council.
00:27:35.45	Unknown	Yes.
00:27:55.65	Jeff	So were we going to talk about the Um... outcome of the community workshop. Any action we need to take in the wake of that?
00:28:09.93	Jeffrey Chase	Can you think of anything, Lally?
00:28:13.91	Jeffrey Chase	we were going to uh... Publish the information on the website explaining the reasons the BMU program is still important. Thank you. We had a question on that.
00:28:27.58	Ray	Can I stop? I think that's the one thing I'm most interested in. I think where we are now is the VMU. Everything's been whittled away and there's still confusion about it. And I think, I believe Karen wrote the email about, if we were to replace it, what we would need. But I think it'd be great to expand it because Questions are asked, and we went through this They told us that we needed VMU for a program, not that it affected the RHNA numbers and then the low income And it would really be good to have a written out canned answer, I mean, so that when someone asks a question, you can say, well, we need it because it's a program and we need it because all these issues. And as we saw on Saturday, people said, well, if you go to the tape, it said this, this, and this. And so every time it comes up, I think we need to have the full, complete answer. every time. And And maybe as part of that we could have And if it were to be replaced, it would need X, Y, and Z. I mean, if we had it in one place, because, again, as I see it, there's not too much, you know, we're whittling it down, and we're still having confusion. And every time we go on the record, we want to make sure that we give an absolute and a complete answer to that. Okay.
00:29:48.39	Mayor Withee	Yeah, and I agree with that. It needs to go on the website. It needs to be a question and answer, whatever the format you decide. But this is very important. Part of the confusion, having gone back and listened to some tapes, part of the confusion is that sometimes when questions are being asked, they're being asked... as if VMU and HMU are all mushed together as to one thing, and they require different answers. Sometimes the answers that are given relate to HMU instead of VMU, Folks are extrapolating the answers from HMU to VMU, and it's really, really confusing. So we need something crisp, clear as to, again, what VMU is, what it's meeting based on, what statutory requirements it's meeting, whether it's anything to do with ARENA numbers or not. This is very important.
00:30:47.30	Ray	If we could, I think the one other place of confusion is this idea of counting and buffer. And again, that was the other thing that came up on Saturday. And, you know, we've been through it hundreds of times, but I think people still get confused with the numbers. the 250 versus what's recorded, you know, 79, and why we have a buffer, You know, they still think a buffer is a bad thing, and so that would also be very helpful. Again, in a very, Uh, a complete answer that's written out that we can address each time it comes up and that we're very consistent with it and that people can take a look at it and digest it. games.
00:31:28.97	Mayor Withee	And it's related to the fact that there are some folks who still just have not got their arms around, and I don't blame them, it's difficult, still have not got their arms around what the infill strategy is all about. The infill strategy is about counting what's there, what development capacity is there, nothing more. Either folks don't want to listen to it or just can't get their arms around Thank you. that it's that simple. And we need to try and figure out a way to communicate this better. I don't have any great ideas, I'm afraid.
00:32:10.51	Susan	Well, there might be a way. I mean, infill strategy does connote an active strategy, whereas, you know, if we were to use a different terminology, such as existing zoning, or I mean, I don't have the perfect nomenclature right here, but There is something about the, just the title, Infill Strategy, that connotes something slightly different than the cataloging of existing zoning. and the already existing development potential on those lots. I mean, it's a little bit different. So.
00:33:00.04	Jeff	The challenge is that we're walking a fine line between HCDs mandate that we incentivize development versus our
00:33:06.98	Unknown	Right.
00:33:14.25	Jeff	goal to maintain Sausalito's charming village-like quality. So that's the challenge. We need, on the one hand, to satisfy HCD and that we have identified this development potential while you know, reassuring our residents that The development potential is strictly within their hands. You know, it's up to them to either develop or sell their land. That's the only way it could be further developed. So, like Ray, I don't really have a proposed language, but I think a clear explanation on our website is important. for the residents and it should include the fact that we are required
00:34:01.15	Unknown	Thank you. Mm-hmm.
00:34:05.65	Jeff	to include this site inventory. You know, I specifically asked, can we, simply you know, provide the data to HCD and not include this inventory? And the answer was a resounding no. we have to include the inventory as part of our element. So I think Ray is correct that description of, you know, the purpose of that and its importance and how that results in this process buffer on paper is important.
00:34:38.86	Mayor Withee	Yeah, I think on reflection, part of what's happened and it's a natural progression is that, you know two years ago two and a half years ago three years ago whatever it is now uh... two years ago let's say we were Thank you. explaining things. We were explaining what the infill strategy was, explaining ADU's strategy, explaining our live-a-board strategy. I think in our recent communications, we've just presumed everybody knows what we're talking about. You know, there are a lot of people who are at the table trying to understand this who weren't involved two years ago.
00:35:22.97	Unknown	Mm-hmm.
00:35:23.87	Mayor Withee	and don't know what we're talking about. It's almost like in our communications, we still need to go back to some very basic principles that we've presumed. We know. We just presume everybody else does, but they don't.
00:35:41.20	Ray	I think Jeff did a great job on Saturday to say, you know, our strategy is this three-legged stool. And, you know, we have – because people really get confused about where it all fits together. And, you know, I think Jeff did a great job on Saturday to say, you know, our strategy is this three-legged stool. And, you know, it's difficult to simplify it. And one thing I would say is if we're going to put some in answers, and I assume some of these answers are going to come at the future hearings in front of the Council and Planning Commission, and also on the website, and I don't know that we, Of course, we have to be accurate in what we say. But I think when we're answering the public, we can make the answer from their point of view. We don't have to put in every development potential issue that we deal with HCD. I mean, we're going to say this is what it means and what we've done and that kind of If you get too far into the weeds, then you lose them again. So it's really a challenge to make something that's clear and that yet they can explain. But I think, and a lot of times, I think when we answer the questions, and we all try to do this, is that we have to answer that question and then give the full answer again because they come back and say, well, you know, you said this, and you have to give them the context each time.
00:36:56.68	Mayor Withee	You know, just to relate a story, You know, I'm in conversations with many of our residents frequently about the housing element, they sort of like zone in on me to try to get some answers and I was talking to someone who had watched, I don't know if it was a City Council meeting where we adopted something or whether it was one of these meetings, I don't recall. And they were actually watching the video and the first exposure of the housing element was watching the video of this particular meeting. They didn't know what we were talking about. Okay, that's okay. Coming in halfway through is to be expected. But they came away with the impression that on all the sites of the site inventory, we were planning to build. You know, the complete opposite of what it is, but that was their take home message from watching a meeting for an hour and a half on the video was we, then they started scrambling through to see if their address was on the site's inventory, because we were gonna build on it. Well, that's not what we're doing. And we still haven't, it's probably one of the most difficult concepts to get across, even though it sounds so simple that this is not a mandate to build, a quota to build, but just a catalog of potential. It's a difficult concept to get across.
00:38:32.39	Jeff	Yeah, of potential development opportunities and that control rests with each individual property owner.
00:38:40.92	Unknown	Thank you.
00:38:47.55	Susan	I think we have some really excellent past summaries from prior fact sheets, both from the entirely previous housing element, starting from the beginning, and from the one that we did, the kind of newsletter format about what, six months ago? So maybe those would be good starting points to update, especially with the VMU. I feel like we spent a lot of time on that newsletter describing the HMU and the VMU separately, but I could be... mistaken. But anyway, I think we have some language to start. And so is the idea that we would create a new FAQ at this point? I think
00:39:29.72	Jeff	Thank you.
00:39:29.74	Unknown	Thank you.
00:39:29.87	Jeff	THANK YOU. add to the FAQ.
00:39:32.81	Unknown	MAKING A LITTLE BIT OF
00:39:33.14	Jeff	Thank you. that's there. And it was on Saturday, Jill Hoffman specifically asked for the statutory authority for the VMU. And so I think it would be to give that overview and then provide authorities for why the VMU fulfills an aspect of the element not able to be fulfilled in any other manner.
00:40:00.25	Lily	So there's a couple options. One, I don't know if you've taken an opportunity to take a look at the new letter that we put out. It's three weeks old maybe. I've updated it for some new meetings before the workshop. So one option would be to add to this newsletter. The inside of it is entirely FAQs, and I took those and edited them from the last workshop from the questions and answers. But the front provides a summary of what a housing element is, what we've done in the past. The inside is the FAQs, and we can add to that for the VMU. We can clearly explain the ADUs and the live aboards and the infill strategy. And then the last page is just next steps. So it might need to be maybe one more page in here. But if that makes sense, or we can do something separately.
00:40:20.36	Ray	Senator. the last.
00:40:49.51	Jeff	I would not reinvent the wheel. No, neither.
00:40:51.24	Susan	Thank you.
00:40:51.26	Mayor Withee	Thank you.
00:40:51.28	Susan	Oh, man.
00:40:51.73	Mayor Withee	Thank you.
00:40:51.77	Susan	Thank you.
00:40:51.88	Mayor Withee	today.
00:40:52.96	Susan	i don't think the vmu is in this particular september 10th it's not so i think that is important and i do like the idea that was mentioned earlier of having the vmu the statutory requirement for that and then what would be the options if the vmu is not pursued or are there any because i think that's really the ultimate
00:41:16.18	Mayor Withee	Thank you.
00:41:16.20	Susan	Thank you.
00:41:16.22	Unknown	Thank you.
00:41:16.35	Susan	Question.
00:41:17.52	Mayor Withee	Well, I mean, after numerous city council meetings and numerous meetings with this group, the conclusion reached was that there wasn't another program that we could substitute. So if that still stands, which I presume it does, then we should say so rather than just be rhetorical, what else could be done? You know, we say nothing else could be done and that's the important thing. And here's why. And here's why, because if we can't say that,
00:41:34.83	Unknown	Thank you.
00:41:34.88	Jeff	Roller.
00:41:35.25	Ray	Thank you.
00:41:42.09	Jeff	I know.
00:41:45.53	Mayor Withee	then we need to go back to the drawing board and ask the question whether the VMU should be a programmer.
00:41:50.57	Susan	That's right.
00:41:51.45	Mayor Withee	I mean, we can add it both ways. That's right.
00:41:53.33	Jeff	you Well...
00:41:56.62	Ray	I think there's a little bit of a distinction. We don't know. I mean, we're certainly open if someone brings it. We think it's a perfectly fine program. There might be other programs, but I don't think we have to look at every single Possibility that could be in the universe. I don't know. I mean, I imagine you could cobble together a different program. But then you'd have to argue it may not be as good and you can go round and round in circles.
00:42:22.49	Jeff	I mean, I specifically asked the question at least a half a dozen times if we can get rid of VMU and put something else in its place because it has had so many objections. And I've been unequivocally told that the answer is no. And that was repeated as recently as our last Thursday night subcommittee meeting as well as on Saturday at the workshop. So I think now. we're going to put down in writing the consultant's perspective on why that is the case.
00:42:59.56	Lily	Karen, if I can ask you to jump in here and explain to the subcommittee what you've explained to me in the past about if we did come up with a program that meets the requirements that the VMU program meets, why we wouldn't be able to use that program for this housing element cycle?
00:43:26.12	Lily	if you're still there.
00:43:29.16	Jeff	She probably has this on mute.
00:43:30.47	Lily	MAKING A LITTLE BIT. Karen, we can't hear you if you're talking.
00:43:36.64	Karen	Can you hear me now? Um, I think that the key thing with the VMU is while it meets various statutory requirements, It's the only program that meets the requirement to facilitate construction of affordable deed restricted housing. So really, to have a replacement program that addresses that would require you know, an affordable housing overlay on a site, Um... it would require a much more proactive program site specific. The other aspects that VMU meet in the statute I think one could argue there are other programs in the element that also meet those. And that's the, you know, addressing the need for housing for families by requiring the affordable units to have a minimum of two bedrooms. addressing the requirement to provide for rental housing Um, And of course, the whole impact to the RHNA if you eliminated the VMU and reducing the ability to count all 51 commercial unit within the commercial zoning districts as residential. and that would decrease your overall rena capacity substantially. But it's really that first one that I think is the kicker where It's the only program that meets the statutory requirement for constructing affordable deed restricted housing and you need to. replace it with you know what everyone has been saying they don't want which is a, you know, specific site designated HMU or affordable housing overlay or something to that effect.
00:45:47.96	Susan	Yeah, so perhaps in our answer to this question, we could discuss the efforts that the prior housing elements subcommittee made in exploring specific sites for an affordable housing kind of overlay designation, and the fact that we spent a lot of time on that
00:46:00.65	Unknown	Yeah.
00:46:06.52	Susan	and got a lot of public feedback that that was not something acceptable at this point. You know, because that does seem like the other obvious choice. And we haven't spent a lot of time looking at it in this particular go around, but we did spend, you know, quite a lot of time in the 2009 to 2014 period looking at that strategy.
00:46:37.35	Mayor Withee	Agreed, and that strategy was specifically rejected by us and the former House and Element Task Force. And then the City Council said it didn't want, period. affordable housing overlays. And we got rid of them.
00:46:59.00	Unknown	So, Mr. Mayor, would it be more accurate, instead of saying there's no other program that can be substituted for VMU, to say that within the policy objectives that have been directed by the committee and the council, which include no whatever they are, housing overlays going back through, similar to what we did when you were discussing the HMU and what were the alternatives, and you had that list of these are the other things you have to consider, that might be a more accurate way to portray what would need to change in the event you wanted to eliminate the BMU program.
00:47:14.93	Ray	Boy.
00:47:30.39	Susan	Yeah.
00:47:30.69	Unknown	Thank you.
00:47:39.06	Mayor Withee	I think the thing that is sometimes lost is that because there is some members of the community who feel very strongly that the VMU program is not something we should have, there are however significant members of the community, and I don't have to say this, but I will, including me, who actually believes the VMU is a good program. and actually fulfills a lot of very important needs. So we sometimes, when we're trying to craft the appropriate housing element, sometimes lose the fact that there are some people that actually think the VMU program is a really good program.
00:48:32.64	Unknown	Can I ask a question? Oh, go ahead.
00:48:35.63	Ray	Well, I agree with that. And I think now, I think we need to start making a shift. I know certainly for myself, we've been in a defensive position on this whole housing element for a while. I think we need to shift and really start point out what a great housing element it is, including the VMU program for all these kinds of things. And one thing on the elements, and I agree with Ray, that it does address a lot of these positive elements. You know, one of the things, I don't know if it's been explored and maybe it's not accurate, is my understanding is on Caledonia Street they made similar changes for other reasons than housing element, that they wanted this mixed use. Is that something that we can, you know, get the facts on and understand? Because, again, I think one of the positive things of the VMU, besides ticking the box off on a housing element, is that it does add to this mixture in the commercial areas of having residential and commercial use, which is a positive thing.
00:49:42.16	Mayor Withee	Okay, so we know we have to get our written materials on the website such that we address the issues we've all just been talking about. So is there any other feedback on the workshop, or do you know what you need to do?
00:49:58.55	Jeff	I would recommend that we make an effort to get those written materials up in advance of the City Council meeting so that people reviewing the draft housing element as a part of the city council packet, we'll have those resources available to them.
00:50:18.16	Susan	Can I just ask a question going back to the deed restricted units? Karen, to what extent, I know we kind of soften the inclusionary program language, but to what extent would an inclusionary program count for deed restricted units?
00:50:37.13	Karen	If you had an inclusionary program with, you know, a timeframe to Um, stop. Bye. because it's not in place yet. Um... I think he would. still be deficient without the VMU. If you had a program in place now, certainly, you wouldn't need to have a VMU.
00:51:07.15	Susan	Okay.
00:51:12.14	Mayor Withee	Okay, Lily, what else do you need from us in terms of feedback? Is there any other comments on any other aspect of the element that anybody has or that we need to discuss this morning?
00:51:27.03	Lily	Karen, as you were going through the edits from last Thursday, was there anything that came up that you needed further clarification on now that we have the subcommittee?
00:51:37.54	Karen	Um, not at this point. I don't know, Jeff. How about you?
00:51:43.73	Jeffrey Chase	No.
00:51:48.49	Mayor Withee	Okay, so in that case, we are moving on to next steps, the meeting dates. And by my calculation, I don't want to be too forward, but this could be the last meeting of this group. Lily?
00:52:09.70	Lily	Correct.
00:52:12.08	Mayor Withee	Okay, so could you just remind us for anybody who's listening what the timetable now is?
00:52:18.41	Lily	So we're going to the council next with the revised draft housing elements with the subcommittee's recommendations. That will either be on September 30th or October 7th, the date to be set very soon, and that will be sent out to my email distribution list posted online. Anyone can contact me if they need more information. At that meeting, we'll be presenting the revised draft housing element to the City Council and asking for any modifications at that meeting and then asking the Council to direct staff to send it to HCD for the 60-day review of the draft housing element. We'll hope that we get a quick turnaround from HCD, but it could be that full 60 days We'll know at that time what the date is. Then we'll send it to the Planning Commission for their review and then on to the Council for adoption. unless there's major changes required by HCD, at which point it may have to come back to the subcommittee for review and then to the council again.
00:53:24.07	Jeff	I thought we were getting a 30-day review for some reason.
00:53:30.48	Jeffrey Chase	The Streamline Review Yields shorter review times, that's part of the whole function, but they technically still have the 60 days. But they've been coming a lot faster. So I think in the past we said it would probably definitely be within 30 days rather than the full 60 days.
00:53:46.50	Lily	Okay. We also have to remember that we are at the end of the year, and a lot of jurisdictions may be submitting housing elements to the state. Maybe.
00:53:59.64	Mayor Withee	Well, only about half of Marin County plus...
00:54:02.83	Jeff	That's my point.
00:54:05.09	Mayor Withee	But others have already done it. Thank you.
00:54:06.85	Jeff	Yeah.
00:54:07.09	Mayor Withee	Thank you. and have them adopted. So imagine.
00:54:12.32	Susan	So can I just ask on this updated FAQ that will be available before the City Council, is that just something we're going to leave to staff and not... review. I mean, I'm okay with that.
00:54:30.79	Unknown	Yes.
00:54:31.93	Mayor Withee	I don't need to review it, but if some members feel they do, then
00:54:36.31	Ray	Thank you. Thank you.
00:54:37.86	Mayor Withee	you
00:54:37.88	Ray	We can have a subcommittee if we have volunteers.
00:54:40.73	Susan	I'd be happy to take a look at it if you want. I don't feel like we have to. I just wanted to be clear. You know, if it's going to get up before the city council hearing, that's a pretty short time for us.
00:54:53.44	Mayor Withee	Well, why don't we have Susan and Tom do it then, as Joan and I were the last subcommittee. I'll see you. You've got to be careful. You might ask what you...
00:55:00.70	Susan	. Be careful, you might ask what you... I could be my own subcommittee. Yeah. I
00:55:08.56	Mayor Withee	I'll be part of it. Okay. All right.
00:55:13.79	Jeffrey Chase	It has been helpful to get fresh eyes on these things. Yeah. Staff and the consultants are so close to it. It's good to get that a little bit of perspective.
00:55:16.22	Mayor Withee	Yeah.
00:55:16.39	Unknown	Okay.
00:55:16.73	Mayor Withee	Thank you.
00:55:16.81	Jeff	Yeah.
00:55:17.45	Mayor Withee	Thank you.
00:55:22.67	Jeff	I mean, certainly any of us who have feedback can transmit it to staff at any time, who's always very receptive to our...
00:55:25.91	Jeffrey Chase	Yeah.
00:55:26.35	Mayor Withee	Thank you.
00:55:31.81	Jeff	Thank you.
00:55:32.37	Mayor Withee	Yeah.
00:55:32.62	Jeff	Thank you. perspective.
00:55:34.38	Mayor Withee	So I guess the point then is once you've got it done, Lily, could you send it out to us? And then the subcommittee will respond to you if needed. Okay.
00:55:42.88	Susan	Yeah, and just be very clear about when you want it back.
00:55:47.51	Mayor Withee	OK, is there anything else anybody wants to say?
00:55:53.31	Susan	Great job.
00:55:55.27	Mayor Withee	other than for me to say thank you to everybody up here for all the work that you've done, and to thank the staff, Lily in particular, who's worked really hard on this, and our consultants, ever diligent. So thank you very much. This meeting is adjourned.

City Council Meeting - September 22, 2014

Meeting Summary

Meeting Transcript