| Time | Speaker | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:09.97 | Ann Arnot | Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. you |
| 00:00:11.62 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Okay, good evening and welcome everybody to the regular City Council meeting for the City of Sausalito for Tuesday, April 17, 2018. I will call the meeting to order and ask Lily to call the roll. |
| 00:00:27.89 | Unknown | Council member Withy. Thank you. |
| 00:00:29.16 | Ray Withey | here. |
| 00:00:29.77 | Unknown | Council member Hoffman? Yes. Here. Council member Cleveland Knowles? Vice Mayor Burns? Here. Mayor Cox? |
| 00:00:35.76 | Alex Hanafi | Here. |
| 00:00:36.08 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. And are not, will you lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance? |
| 00:00:46.45 | Ann Arnot | Thank you. |
| 00:00:46.52 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, |
| 00:00:46.72 | Ann Arnot | by deligiance to the flag of the United States of America. and to the rebel. which is today. |
| 00:00:55.94 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. |
| 00:01:06.15 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | We held a closed session this evening. We had two matters scheduled. We only discussed one, which was item 1D, conference with legal counsel, anticipated litigation. There are no closed session announcements. Is there any public comment on our closed session items? Okay, seeing none, we'll move on to approval of the agenda. I would like to suggest, assuming that their council arrives timely, that we move consideration of public hearing item 6 to immediately follow the consent calendar. So moved. In addition, we have decided to postpone the hearing on business item 5B. So may I have a motion for those two? Sure. With those amendments, I'll move the agenda. |
| 00:02:08.04 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. |
| 00:02:08.09 | Joe Burns | Sure. |
| 00:02:08.33 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | THE FAMILY. |
| 00:02:11.03 | Joe Burns | Second. |
| 00:02:12.08 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | All in favor? Aye. That motion carries 5-0. So now we'll move on to special presentations and mayor's announcements. The first thing we'll hear from is the Sausalito Art Festival. But before we do that, I have a proclamation to present. |
| 00:02:12.97 | Joe Burns | I agree. |
| 00:02:31.45 | Unknown | Mm-mm. |
| 00:02:34.35 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | This is a proclamation of the mayor of the city of Sausalito recognizing Ann Arnot. |
| 00:02:50.06 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | So here we go. Whereas, in 1964, Anne and Peter Arnott, a young and vivacious couple, arrived on the scene in Sausalito. And, whereas, it became abundantly apparent that this couple would become very involved in their community, city government, and special events to the fullest extent possible. And, whereas, Anne began by becoming active in the Sausalito Nursery School and the Sausalito Women's Club, including serving as Women's Club president. And whereas Anne entered into a business enterprise and along with a partner opened a restaurant on Caledonia Street called Soup Con, which turned into a very successful business. and whereas along with her husband and their love of theater they formed the Sausalito Players a play reading group of theater, they formed the Sausalito Players, a play reading group which continues today, chairing the Sausalito Centennial Finale Event. And Anne has gone on to write and direct many of the annual Women's Club Jinx events, her most recent this year. And. Whereas Ann was appointed by the City Council to the Art Festival Advisory Committee and continues to serve on the Art Festival Foundation and for many, many years has organized volunteers to operate the Art Festival's front gate. And... Whereas Ann moved into politics and was elected to the Sausalito-Marin City Sanitary District in 2005 and continues to serve as a board member to date. And... Whereas Anne's involvement in the community, the art festival, and the Chamber of Commerce have been recognized by her being awarded the Spirit of Marin Award in 2009 and being the 4th of July Grand Marshal in 2012. Now, therefore, I, Joan Cox, Mayor of the City of Sausalito, here unto set my hand upon this proclamation. In order to recognize Anne on her 90th birthday this April 24th, |
| 00:04:47.80 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | And graciously thank her for the many, many hours she has given and continues to give to our community. |
| 00:05:08.98 | Ann Arnot | Dr. Amara and Amaya, come up here. Thank you. Bye. Thank you. The Press. |
| 00:05:18.43 | Eric Zellhart | All right. That was beautiful. Congratulations, Ed. You deserve it. Thank you, Ms. Collins. |
| 00:05:19.86 | Ann Arnot | Thank you. |
| 00:05:24.32 | Peter Streitman | I have to tell you, I've never had so much fun as turning 90. This is probably an incredible one. |
| 00:05:28.40 | Ann Arnot | This is an incredible lie. I guarantee it. I tell you, I'll do it. Thank you. |
| 00:05:49.68 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Are you surprised there? |
| 00:05:55.06 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Eh. |
| 00:05:55.40 | Ann Arnot | Thank you. |
| 00:05:58.46 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | All right, and with that, Cindy, that's a hard act to follow, but we'll invite you up to the table. |
| 00:06:03.18 | Cindy | Yes, it's a very hard act to follow. I hope I never have to do that again. But congratulations, Anne. And it's an honor to work with you on the Sausalito Art Festival Foundation. So continue. We need you. I haven't done yet. you I think I know how to do this. |
| 00:06:26.03 | Cindy | We... Hold on. |
| 00:06:40.44 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | They go to some current sites. |
| 00:06:43.41 | Cindy | So I wanna first of all thank you all for having us. We know there's been a lot of commotion in the community of is there going to be an art fair and what's it going to be? And so tonight I'd like to show you a little bit of our steps of what we're going to be doing. It's our 66th year and it's a time for change. With change comes new looks, new thoughts, and new ideas. One of the biggest changes is we are going to be changing our location a little bit. |
| 00:07:14.00 | Cindy | So when you see this map, what you're going to see, the change is in red. And really, it's not that big of a change. What we're actually doing is taking from the bay model parking lot and flipping it to the other side over by Marina Plaza. So where the tall ship was built, Being built, we are going to use that space, and that's going to be our gala, our gala tent, and we're going to multi-use that for something else. And then we're going to put our stage back by, close to modern sailing in the harbor, and it's going to be the same size, a little bit bigger, really. We're going to have some festival seating where blankets, then some seating, and then a shaded area. And right in there, when you go see the artists, they're all the same from last year. You walk up where we had Modern Sailing, and there's a parking lot. It will be most of our food booths and everything else. We're working to get parking, so the roadie will still have parking. We still have enough space for all of our food vendors, which we're very thankful to have both of these, all the nonprofits work with us to do that. So it's just gonna have a little bit, a different look, a different feel, and that's all I wanted to show you guys tonight with Anne being recognized. So any questions? |
| 00:08:41.79 | Cindy | Oh, thank you. And this happens to be a nice slide from 1962 of Miss Anne and Peter. And we phoned that yesterday, and we had to show it. So... |
| 00:08:57.26 | Ann Arnot | So... Bye. |
| 00:09:05.50 | Cindy | At the Tokyo Hilton. So thank you for your time. I'm hoping I will see you one more time, but I don't hope I have to come here often. So thank you. OK, any questions of Cindy? |
| 00:09:17.97 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. |
| 00:09:18.00 | Cindy | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:09:18.88 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Okay. Any public comment on the Saucedo Art Festival presentation? All right. Thanks, everybody. Thank you. |
| 00:09:49.42 | Anne Lee | . Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:09:51.68 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:09:51.97 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. |
| 00:09:52.97 | Unknown | We're kidnapping her. |
| 00:09:55.14 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. Bring her back. |
| 00:09:56.21 | Unknown | We got other plans. |
| 00:09:57.42 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Oh, can we go? |
| 00:10:02.27 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | I know. |
| 00:10:13.98 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Okay. Next on our agenda is action minutes of the previous meeting. |
| 00:10:21.76 | Ann Arnot | Thank you. |
| 00:10:25.87 | Joe Burns | Right in the city. |
| 00:10:33.35 | Joe Burns | the movie. I move we approve second. |
| 00:10:35.63 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Second. All in favor? Aye. Aye. That motion carries 5-0. |
| 00:10:37.48 | Joe Burns | Bye. That makes it great. |
| 00:10:40.79 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | We'll move now to our consent calendar. Matters listed under the consent calendar are considered routine and non-controversial, require no discussion, are expected to have unanimous council support, and may be enacted by the council in one motion in the form listed below. I learned about 30 minutes ago that item 4G, there's someone here in person to receive that proclamation, so I'd like to remove item 4G from our consent calendar. |
| 00:11:16.20 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Great. And then I just wanted to note that on, sorry, the 4B that it's not in the title, but we're also being asked to support RM Regional Measure 3 that's coming up on the June ballot, which is a $3 increase over three years, I think, or six years? for transportation purposes. So that wasn't crystal clear about it. |
| 00:11:50.62 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Okay, is there any public comment on our consent calendar? David Souto, please step forward. |
| 00:12:09.94 | David Souto | So I already talked, already in the mail, there's been some discussion that I had with Danny about item 4D. And it's not per se about the encroachment itself. It's about the fact that part of this encroachment agreement deals with property that may or may not have been public access and we should maintain public access. In a second email I sent, Danny, I cut and pasted part of our current 1995 general plan, and it says, in recognition of this importance, the plan calls for the completion of those pathways that are not complete. And the construction of new pathways to complete the pathway system citywide. When capital improvement programs are prepared, consideration should be given to improving city controlled rights away or paper streets that can be utilized for pedestrian access. Encroachment of private structures, most commonly fences have occurred on segments of the pathway system. It is important that the structures be identified and removed so that interrupted pedestrian links can be restored. And I would just ask that the city council, give staff direction that when we do things like these encroachment agreements, that we also look at improving access for pedestrians in public right-of-way. I think that this particular project, this particular property is a perfect example. The main staircase is entirely in the 4th Street right away. The improvements that may at least visually hinder the public from using that stairway are in the public right-of-way, and the base of the stairway is in the public right-of-way, and there's only a segment in the bottom middle that is not in the public way, and this stairway should be part public access. And I would just like to have city council give staff direction that in situations like this, that we improve the public access to these things because we need them to improve the walkability of our town. And also in the case of emergency, to have multiple exits from areas. Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:14:30.66 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. Any other public comment on our consent calendar? Okay, does anybody wish to pull anything from the consent calendar? other than item 4G. |
| 00:14:42.63 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Can we just ask a question on the public comment made by Mr. Sudo? Did staff have a chance to look into whether that stairway is in fact subject to a public easement? |
| 00:14:53.48 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Danny, so there was correspondence. We were all copied on it as part of late mail. Danny, do you want to make a comment or Jonathan? I forwarded it to Danny. |
| 00:15:08.24 | Jonathon Goldman | Thanks for the opportunity to respond. Jonathan Goldman, your public works director and city engineer. I haven't spent as much time addressing the question or the comment as I think Danny had, but as Mr. Sudo indicated, the paper street of 4th that goes between Valley and Sausalito Boulevard is where some or all of those public access improvements are and I think my department did not do a particularly good job of taking advantage of the opportunity to address whether those improvements needed to be upgraded as part of the project. It's certainly to the extent that there are improvements within the public right of way, something that whether it's coupled with an entitlement or not, there's the opportunity for us to expend the resources that we have to make sure that pedestrian paths of travel are safe and usable in an emergency. |
| 00:16:17.38 | Ann Arnot | Thank you. |
| 00:16:18.92 | Jill Hoffman | So in light of that response, do we want to pull this matter and have the staff look at this plan? |
| 00:16:23.54 | Alice Merrill | plan. I saw |
| 00:16:28.89 | Jill Hoffman | you |
| 00:16:28.92 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | I mean... So I'll just reiterate my question. Does anyone want to pull anything from our consent calendar other than 4G? |
| 00:16:39.79 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Yeah, so I mean, I would agree with Council Member Hoffman that if we missed something on this before we approve the encroachment agreement, maybe we should... Just make sure that we double check and make sure there's nothing additional that we want to condition the encroachment agreement on. Jonathan, can you? I wasn't entirely clear if Our public works director was indicating that there was more that we could do, or he wasn't sure. |
| 00:17:07.45 | Jill Hoffman | And can we easily do a review like that? |
| 00:17:08.09 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | YOU. or that maybe we just need to do a better job moving forward. |
| 00:17:11.94 | Jonathon Goldman | Thank you again. crystal clear, but unless there is some harm associated with continuing the matter, I would be perfectly comfortable to work with the applicant and the community development director so that the next time it comes back to council, you have very clear answers as to all these questions. |
| 00:17:33.81 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | All right, was this already approved by or recommended by the Planning Commission? Thank you. |
| 00:17:37.33 | Jonathon Goldman | It was. |
| 00:17:37.38 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | It was. And so would it have to go back to the Planning Commission? |
| 00:17:40.76 | Jonathon Goldman | It depends on what we find. |
| 00:17:44.96 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | So the city attorney is nodding yes. So I'm going to ask the city manager and the city clerk if there's any, or Danny, if there's any reason, is this urgent for the applicant? I know this was already planned to be on our consent calendar a couple of weeks ago. So is there any harm caused to the applicant by delaying this? |
| 00:17:45.08 | Jonathon Goldman | Yeah. |
| 00:18:08.20 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | approval further. |
| 00:18:10.73 | Danny | Thank you, Mayor Cox. The improvements along Sausalito Boulevard is to provide access to the residents. And there is also access to the steps along the side. So it would delay their improvements along the front of the right of way. That's the only thing. But perhaps we can get this back to you very soon. And again, I can work with Jonathan and looking at what solutions we can do. We can see. |
| 00:18:43.16 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Do you see that there are solutions available that have not been capitalized upon? |
| 00:18:49.07 | Danny | Ms. Well, the The access to the steps would remain the same as they exist today from Sausalito Boulevard. I think what David Sudo is describing is that perhaps as it goes down to Valley, to the bottom of the hill, that they could be made safe and be improved. Now, some of that's within the neighbor's property, entirely within the neighbor's property, and then onto Valley, of course, it does go into the public right-of-way. So we would have to look at those things and perhaps see how we can arrange potential improvement. |
| 00:19:28.20 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Okay, so you think you would benefit from additional time to review this before we approve the encroachment agreement? I think so, yes. |
| 00:19:34.63 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Okay. I think we'd also want the city attorney to see if that would be a legitimate condition of this particular encroachment agreement. It's not clear to me that they're connected. |
| 00:19:46.19 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Okay, so then, It seems to me we have consensus to pull item... 4D so we're now going to pull items 4D and 4G from our consent calendar may I have Hold on. |
| 00:20:05.24 | Jill Hoffman | I need to recuse myself from 4B. My street is listed on that improvement list. So, I'm going to abandon some caution. |
| 00:20:15.28 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Okay, has the city clerk, sorry Lily, have you done a review to see if any of the rest of us have streets listed on the improvement list? |
| 00:20:24.70 | Ann Arnot | Thank you. |
| 00:20:24.73 | Jill Hoffman | There's only like 4 streets if you OK pull open for |
| 00:20:29.39 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | I didn't see a street that I recognized near me, but. |
| 00:20:34.05 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | than 200 feet. |
| 00:20:34.10 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Yeah. Rude. There we go. there. Yeah, I saw this. So I'll just say it's Locust, Excelsior, Easter Bee, Girard, Bee, and Bonita. |
| 00:20:54.64 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Okay. All right, so then may I have a motion concerning items 4A, 4C, 4E through F, and 4H through I? |
| 00:21:08.20 | Ray Withey | Say. |
| 00:21:09.20 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | All in favor? Aye. That motion carries 5-0. May I have a motion concerning item 4B? So moved. |
| 00:21:09.99 | Ray Withey | Hi. |
| 00:21:20.05 | Ray Withey | Second. |
| 00:21:20.88 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | All in favor that motion carries for 0 with one abstaining Hoffman. |
| 00:21:21.81 | Ray Withey | Bye. |
| 00:21:27.95 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | All right and with that I'm going to go ahead and address item 4G now. Item 4G is a proclamation of the City Council of the City of Sausalito recognizing National Safe Boating Week. Whereas recreational boating in California is fun and enjoyable and boat owners and operators are fortunate that the San Francisco Bay Area has sufficient resources to accommodate a wide variety of pleasure boating demands. And whereas, along with the enjoyment of boating, comes risks, of which the top five primary contributing risk factors in boating accidents in the United States are operator inattention, improper lookout, operator in experience, and or lack of knowledge obeying navigation or nautical rules of the road, excessive speed, and alcohol or drugs while operating a boat. And whereas, if made aware of these risks, boaters are likely to take precautionary measures to protect themselves and their friends and family by taking boating safety instructions, asking for vessel safety checks, limiting alcohol and drug usage by the boat operator, and purchasing and wearing properly fitting modern comfortable life jackets. And whereas over 70% of boating related accidents are caused by human error or poor judgment and not by the boat, equipment, or environmental factors. And whereas on average of 650 people fatalities each year in boating related accidents in the US, approximately 80% of these deaths are caused by drowning. And whereas more than 80% of boaters who lose their lives by drowning each year would be alive today had they worn their life jackets. And whereas to this end, the U.S. Coast Guard, Coast Guard Auxiliary, and its federal state, i.e. California Division of Boating and Waterways, urges all to help spread the message of boating safety, not only during National Safe Boating Week, but throughout the year. Therefore, be it proclaimed that the City of Sausalito recognizes May 19-25, 2018 as National Safe Boating Week, supporting the goals of the Safe Boating Campaign, and announcing the start of the year-round effort to promote recreational boating safety, especially in the San Francisco Bay Area. In witness whereof, I have here unto set my hand and caused this seal of the City of Sausalito to be affixed this 17th day of April 2018 and urge all those who boat or recreate on or near the water to practice safe boating habits and especially to wear it. And with that, I'd like to present this proclamation to a representative of the United States Coast Guard who has come down to accept it. |
| 00:24:16.12 | Roy Falk | Yes, just to take an opportunity, my name is My name is Roy Falk and I'm the Vice Commander for Flotilla here in Central Marin. We also have a wonderful flotilla here in Sausalito and I'm kind of filling in for them tonight. But I wanted to just take the opportunity to let you know, perhaps you know now that the state of California is beginning to require a safe boating card. In other words, you'll need a driver's license to operate a boat in the state of California. It goes into effect this year, and it's being implemented progressively. This year, 18-year-olds will have to have a boating license. and then it goes by increment, I forget the actual categories or the age groups, but it moves up the scale, finally gets to me. So you can see that everyone will be included. All boating operators in the state of California, perhaps by, I think by 2020, will be required to have a safe boating card. To get that card, you'll take an examination. So we offer study classes. And we can help you to get that card. We can teach it to you. We can give you the test right there. You can walk out the door with your safe boating card, no matter how old or young you are. So I'd like to encourage you to contact Coast Guard Auxiliary. We do a lot of other things to help with the Coast Guard. We supplement them by helping with container inspections. We help with the commercial fishing fleet. We inspect fishing boats for safety equipment before the salmon season and before the crabbing season each year. We inspect the safety boats excuse me, the ferry boats for safety equipment, fire extinguishers, etc. We're making sure nothing's expired and we don't want to have any of the accidents that we've seen about in the rest of the world. So with that, accept this proclamation on behalf of the Coast Guard and thank you very much. |
| 00:26:16.76 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Okay, with that we're gonna move back to communications. This is the time for the City Council to hear from citizens regarding matters that are not on the agenda. Except in very limited situations, state law precludes the council from taking any action on or engaging in discussions concerning items of business that are not on the agenda. So would anyone like to comment on a matter not on our agenda this evening? Okay, seeing none. |
| 00:26:41.10 | Unknown | Uh, Hello. Hi, Ms. Mayor, City Council. city workers and citizens of Sausalito, you'll be happy to know I'm gonna do three tonight. Paul, Mao Reh, The pastor who is the most enthusiastic for the Anchorage, as well as being a pastor for the Sausalito Police Department, suggested that. I think that's a great idea. |
| 00:27:14.19 | Unknown | I'm gonna start with the Torah portion. which I usually do. This is the law of Saris, Metsora. And it is not leprosy, which is Hansen's disease, This is something that comes... from somebody using lashonhora, which in Hebrew means an evil tongue, saying something bad about somebody, So Moses says something bad about the... Israeli people. His hand turns white, he puts it in his Robe takes it out. It's fine. His sister... interferes a little bit. with the love life of Moses, Miriam, the original Mary, She suffers surus. And Moses says, the shortest sentence. In the Torah, though there are no real sentences, It means be healed. And she's immediately healed. What happens when somebody says something bad about another person? It's different for representatives of our self-government here, our sovereignty as individuals and as under God. Ghosts. WE ARE ALLOWED TO DO THAT BECAUSE WE ARE CRITICIZING OURSELVES. So I'm gonna spend the last minute |
| 00:28:45.75 | Unknown | talking about what's coming up this Mother's Day. We all go by the moon cycle, by the sun cycle, by the holidays, American holidays, or maybe religious holidays. Mother's Day this year is gonna cap off 40 days. It's perfect because we're in the count of the Omer between Passover and Shavuos, which is a lot like Lent, on Mother's Day that will begin 40 days of civil disobedience in this country. It's the Poor People's Campaign. It's what Martin Luther King was doing in Memphis. when he was assassinated. It continues 50 jubilee years later. We will announce what we're going to do each day. We will tell you and we will accept whatever penalties you choose to give us. We feel this is the way to stop these wars that threaten all of us. Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:29:48.21 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Any other comments on items not on our agenda this evening? Okay, then pursuant to our revised agenda, we will move on to item six. The public hearing appeal of a planning commission decision upholding a zoning administrator decision approving a minor use permit to allow for the serving of beer and wine at the California Caviar Company tasting room located at 1403 Bridgeway. |
| 00:30:29.01 | Calvin Chan | Good evening, council members, members of staff, members of our public. My name is Calvin Chan, senior planner with the community development department. The item that I will be presenting this evening is an appeal of a Planning Commission decision. It is the California Caviar Company project located at 1403 Bridgeway, also known as 302 Caledonia Street, Suite No. 5. I'll begin by providing some background on the minor use permit. On June of 2017, Deborah Keene, who is the California Caviar Company founder and CEO, filed an application with the City of Sausalito requesting that the zoning administrator approve a minor use permit or an MUP to allow for the serving of beer and wine, no hard alcohol at 1403 Bridgeway. Pursuant to our Sausalito municipal code, a minor use permit is required for the sale of beer and wine in establishments located within a CR or the commercial residential zoning district. California Caviar Company is requesting this minor use permit in order to enhance their caviar tasting experiences with pairings of beer and wine. The service of beer and wine is prohibited from outside of the tasting room. So it's confined only within the interior of the tasting room space that you see outlined in yellow. Staff notes that city council approval is required for any beer and wine service outside of the tasting room, for example, on the sidewalk, above the building, or anywhere else. The tasting room proposed hours of operation are from Tuesday to Saturday between the hours of 4 and 9 p.m. |
| 00:32:16.96 | Calvin Chan | In September of 2017, the zoning administrator conducted a public hearing for the minor use permit. The zoning administrator considered all public testimony and approved the minor use permit subject to conditions. On September 18th of that year, Judith Van Kolb, who is the Sparrow Creek Montessori School president, filed an appeal of the zoning administrator's approval. On February 7th of 2018, the Planning Commission conducted their public hearing to review the appeal of the zoning administrator's decision. The planning commission denied the appeal and upheld the zoning administrator's decision unanimously in a 5-0 vote. On February 20th of this year, Judith Benkolb again filed an appeal of the planning commission's decision to the city council and that brings us to this evening. |
| 00:33:08.45 | Calvin Chan | A little background about the site. The subject property is a two level commercial building known as 302 Caledonia Street. This is located at the northwest corner of Bridgeway and Locust Street. The commercial building does have frontage along Caledonia Street and Bridgeway. |
| 00:33:33.93 | Calvin Chan | The surrounding neighborhood does consist of mixed commercial and residential and commercial waterfront uses. Sparrow Creek Montessori School is located at 304 Caledonia Street, which abuts the property to the west. The subject space is zoned, as I mentioned, commercial residential, or CR, and is immediately adjacent and surrounded by other land uses within that same zoning designation. |
| 00:34:01.25 | Calvin Chan | Here's a chart displaying the current occupancy of the 302 Caledonia Street commercial building. There are three street level tenants, including California Caviar Company's tasting room, the subject of this evening's project. This is suite number five. And there are also three upper level tenants, which are suites three, four, and six. |
| 00:34:26.51 | Calvin Chan | Here's a photo showing the California Caviar Company tasting room frontage located at 1403 Bridgeway. The minor use permit, as I mentioned, is limited to within the interior of this tasting room space. |
| 00:34:41.97 | Calvin Chan | Here's a photo showing the business frontage as viewed north along Bridgeway. The subject space is the only tenant space of the 302 Caledonia Street building, which has entry and exit along Bridgeway. The 1403 Bridgeway space has doors and windows that face Bridgeway to the east, and there are no openings anywhere else. The three-metered public parking spaces are located in front of the business, and numerous parking spaces are available elsewhere along Bridgeway, which, as we know, is the city's main thoroughfare. |
| 00:35:15.99 | Calvin Chan | Here's a photo of one of the backsides of the 302 Caledonia Street building. You see here the rear brick wall of the street level tasting room, which is suite 5, the subject of our project this evening. The upper level office space occupied by California Caviar Company, suite 6. And then, of course, in the foreground, you see the Sparrow Creek backyard. As I mentioned, there are no openings present on the rear brick wall of the space about Sparrow Creek. I'm located at 304 Caledonia, and there's no internal access between the lower tasting room space and the upper level office. |
| 00:35:56.00 | Calvin Chan | Here's a zoomed out photo. The upper level walkway is on the left with the Sparrow Creek backyard. The right hand side image shows again the upper level walkway, which is adjacent to suite number four currently occupied by the Armstrong Law Firm. Access stairs from both Caledonia Street and Bridgeway lead to this pathway on the upper level of this commercial building that connects the three upper-level tenants. The stretch of walkway that faces directly to Sparrow Creek Montessori School is occupied by Suite 4, which is the law firm. |
| 00:36:32.48 | Calvin Chan | The 302 Caledonia Street Commercial Building has a private tenant only parking lot on the street level. California Caviar Company does have two assigned parking spaces for the tasting room, suite five, and one parking space for the upper level office, suite six. Fencing with solid black screening exists between suite five parking spaces that you see on the left hand side of this image and the Sparrow Creek backyard. Sometimes the screening is present, sometimes it is rolled up. Currently it is rolled down. |
| 00:37:05.78 | Calvin Chan | Here's another photo. The occupied suite number four parking space on the left and two available suite five tasting room parking spaces on the right. |
| 00:37:19.12 | Calvin Chan | Now go through some of the permitting history with regards to land use for this property. In 1987, the Community Development Department did approve an occupational use permit for Peter Pan Donuts located at 1403 Bridgeway. The donut shop was approved as a bakery, which was a permitted land use, but it did not allow any seating or tables. In 2009, the Planning Commission approved a conditional use permit for the conversion of this existing commercial space, Peter Pan Donuts, to a 22-seat restaurant, the known as Amy's Cafe. Moving forward to 2010, California Caviar Company began their office use at Suite 6, above the Amy's Cafe location at Suite 5. |
| 00:38:12.65 | Calvin Chan | In approximately October of 2010, Amy's Cafe closed business at 1403 Bridgeway. And Amy's Cafe did continue to hold a lease at this space that runs through 2018. Upon the closure of Amy's Cafe, the subject space was left in an unusable space. And within attachment 8, you'll see some photos and a timeline that have been submitted by the applicant. Some of the unusable state features include damaged plumbing, no kitchen facilities, no toilet. and a timeline that had been submitted by the applicant. Some of the unusable state features include damaged plumbing, no kitchen facilities, no toilet or no light fixtures. |
| 00:38:47.31 | Calvin Chan | The staff did consult with the city's building division, the County of Marin Environmental Health, as well as the former City of Sausalito staff planner that worked on the continuation of the restaurant use between Amy's Cafe and California Caviar Company. Following the October 2010 closure of Amy's Cafe within the next six months, the applicant did communicate with the property owner and city staff regarding the continuation of this restaurant land use at 1403 Bridgeway. The restaurant land use established by the conditional use permit for Amy's Cafe runs with the land unless the permit lapses. Within six months, California Caviar Company, as I mentioned, began inquiring into this space, began property owner approved on-site storage, and began preparation of project plans for a comprehensive restaurant remodel under guidance from the Community Development Department. And this guidance was to ensure that the California Caviar Company tasting room would abide by the restrictions placed on it by the conditional use permit. And also during this six-month time span, the property owner did take legal action to cancel Amy's Cafe's lease, which extended to 2018 in order to formally lease the space to California Caviar. At no point in time was the restaurant land use abandoned or exchanged for another land use. |
| 00:40:13.31 | Calvin Chan | Ultimately, the Community Development Department determined that the California Caviar Company adhere to the requirements of the space established under the conditional use permit, and pursued continuation of the restaurant land use in a timely and diligent manner without any lapse of the permit. In November of 2012, an occupational use permit was formally approved by the department. |
| 00:40:43.06 | Calvin Chan | City staff has been in extensive consultation with the alcoholic beverage control throughout the processing of this application. Local agency authority or authorization is required prior to any application for alcoholic beverage control licensing. California Caviar Company is responsible for securing all necessary permits and licenses and adhering to all requirements either from the city of Sausalito, alcoholic beverage control, or other external regulatory agencies. According to alcoholic beverage control, there are no standard restrictions on the granting of beer and wine licenses that are proximate to schools, daycares, churches, or other specific land uses. Each alcoholic beverage control license application includes public notification to residents, schools, churches, and other specified land uses in the area. And the ABC conducts an investigation which spans between two to three months. The ABC conducts a public hearing, considers public testimony, and ultimately makes their own discretionary decision whether or not to grant their ABC license. Similar to a minor use permit, the license from ABC would allow only the sale and consumption of beer and wine within the interior of this tasting room space. It would be prohibited anywhere else on the sidewalk, above the building, anywhere else surrounding the property. |
| 00:42:17.88 | Calvin Chan | The project site is located within the mixed residential and commercial general plan land use designation. Additional description of general plan analysis and analysis for this project in general, you can see more on page 13 of your staff report. In order to approve the minor use permit, the City Council must determine that the project is consistent with all applicable general plan policies. One general plan policy is listed on your screen. This is policy LU 2.13 of the land use and general plans growth management element. And as I mentioned, you can see more of this analysis in your staff report. |
| 00:42:58.38 | Calvin Chan | The zoning administrator and the planning commission have approved the minor use permit subject to conditions of approval. Their resolution numbers are displayed as well as their approval dates. I'll now go through each of the conditions of approval. I'm going to highlight just five of them as they are germane to our subsequent discussions on this appeal. |
| 00:43:21.30 | Calvin Chan | Minor use permit condition of approval one states, the minor use permit authorizes the sale of beer and wine to compliment a tasting room at 1403 Bridgeway, 302 Caledonia Street, Suite 5, in accordance with the necessary licensing from the alcoholic beverage control. If the site is out of compliance with the conditions of this minor use permit, or other Sausalito municipal code requirements, the city will notify ABC. |
| 00:43:50.62 | Calvin Chan | CONDITION NUMBER TWO. The sale of beer and wine shall be ancillary to the primary use as a tasting room. Food shall be available to be served at all times. |
| 00:44:02.79 | Calvin Chan | Condition 3, the hours of operation of the tasting room with beer and wine service shall be limited between 4 p.m. and 9 p.m. and no alcohol shall be sold outside of these hours. |
| 00:44:16.83 | Calvin Chan | condition for. The sale or consumption of beer and wine is limited to within the interior of the tasting room space, 1403 Bridgeway, also known as 302 Caledonia Street, Suite No. 5. The applicant is prohibited from selling and patrons are prohibited from consuming beer and wine anywhere outside of the tasting room, for example, the sidewalk, decks, walkways or parking lot, and of course, no takeout of beer and wine is permitted. |
| 00:44:48.62 | Calvin Chan | Condition of approval number five states, if at any time in the future, it is determined by the community development director that the alcohol service is causing neighborhood disruption, the director may seek modification of the permit approval subject to the applicable provisions of the Sausalito Municipal Code. And what you see highlighted in green text is some clarification language that staff proposes. Should the city council desire to deny the appeal and uphold the minor use permit approval, staff recommends the inclusion of this clarification language in your resolution. |
| 00:45:26.05 | Calvin Chan | Here are some advisory notes also listed within each of the zoning administrators and planning commissions resolutions. The advisory notes talk about the prohibition of smoking in public places, the restrictions on the consumption of alcoholic beverages in public places, including penalties for any violations. And also a reminder that permits required by all external regulatory agencies are required by the applicant to secure. |
| 00:45:58.35 | Calvin Chan | All of the public correspondence that staff has received to date is related to some of the potential impacts of the proposed use upon the Sparrow Creek Montessori School located at 304 Caledonia. Highlighted concerns include the approximate location near the school and the hours of operation, smoking as well as the permitting history. I'll go through each of these concerns over the next slides. |
| 00:46:27.02 | Calvin Chan | The concern from Sparrow Creek is that the presence of the tasting room with potentially over served customers could result in a public nuisance situation to the children and attendees of the school. As stated previously in the staff report and presentation, there is no access or viewing opportunity to the west towards Caledonia Street. Additionally, the hours of operation of the two businesses do not generally overlap. Sparrow Creek's normal school hours are from 8 to 4 p.m. Monday to Friday, with an aftercare program extending until 6 p.m. to allow for a late child pick up. The tasting room with beer and wine service would have hours of operation as required by the conditions of approval to only be between 4 p.m. and 9 p.m. Therefore, the school would generally be out of session just as the tasting room opens. |
| 00:47:19.77 | Calvin Chan | Another highlighted concern from Sparrow Creek is that the presence of the tasting room with beer and wine service could increase the instances of outdoor smoking. Staff would like to point out that Sausalito Municipal Code Chapter 12.28 does provide regulations for indoor air and health protection. The Sausalito Municipal Code prohibits smoking in public places, places of employment, and certain other areas, and in particular, smoking is prohibited in unenclosed common areas. With relation to this project, that would mean smoking is prohibited on the upper level walkway and open deck, overlooking the schoolyard and also the parking area. |
| 00:48:04.54 | Calvin Chan | A last concern that I'd like to highlight this evening is permitting history. As I've already gone over in the staff report and this presentation, the Community Development Department did determine that the California Caviar Company adhere to the requirements of their space established by the 2009 CUP granted for Amy's Cafe and that they did pursue the continuation of the restaurant land use in a timely and diligent manner without any lapse of the permit. At no point in time was the restaurant land use abandoned or exchanged for another different land use. |
| 00:48:41.55 | Calvin Chan | On February 20th of this year, an appeal was filed on the Planning Commission's decision. |
| 00:48:53.16 | Calvin Chan | Two grounds of appeal are identified within the appeal document. Appeal ground one states, the Planning Commission erred in finding that conditional use permit, 2009-25, the conditional use permit under which California Caviar Company has been operating, did not lapse due to non-use for a period of six consecutive months. As I've mentioned in the staff report in this presentation, the Community Development Department determined that there was no lapse in this land use permit. At no point in time was the restaurant land use abandoned or exchanged for a different land use, so that the conditional use permit did remain valid. |
| 00:49:34.67 | Calvin Chan | Appeal ground number two states, the Planning Commission erred in finding that California caviar companies proposed use serving beer and wine to customers at its tasting room, together with applicable conditions A, will not be detrimental to the public health, safety, or general welfare of the city, and B, will not materially adversely affect nearby properties or their permitted uses. As I've already discussed in this presentation, Sparrow Crease concerns regarding the project's location near the school and the hours of operation, as well as the potential increased instances in smoking are noted. And staff suggests that the scope of the minor use permit, including the consideration of existing site conditions, as approved and conditioned by the zoning administrator and also the planning commission, are adequately limited to prevent any negative impacts to the site and surrounding neighborhood beyond existing conditions. Mere proximity of the school to the project site by itself is not sufficient to require denial of the use or permit allowed in, of a land use allowed in the commercial residential zoning district. other uses. that are allowed within the commercial residential zoning district include restaurants, schools, theaters, wine shops, and also drinking establishments subject to a conditional use permit. A drinking establishment is only allowed with a conditional use permit. California Caviar Company's tasting room operates under a restaurant land use conditional use permit. And therefore is not and cannot be a drinking establishment without application and approval of a conditional use permit. Should there be any future desire for a change in this land use from a restaurant land use to a drinking establishment, application and approval of a conditional use permit would be required. along with any licensing from the alcoholic beverage control and external regulatory agencies. |
| 00:51:34.11 | Calvin Chan | In order to approve the minor use permit, there are nine findings that we see in our Sausalito Municipal Code. The Zoning Administrator and Planning Commission have previously already determined that all nine findings for approval of the minor use permit can be made and have approved the minor use permit for the service of beer and wine within the street level, bridgeway facing tasting room, subject to conditions of approval. It is staff's recommendation for denial of the appeal and upholding the Planning Commission's decision, which upholds a zoning administrator decision approving the minor use permit to allow for the service of beer and wine at the California Caviar Company Tasting Room located at 1403 Bridgeway. As I mentioned previously, Should the City Council be inclined to approve this minor use permit, staff report attachment 1 contains your draft resolution, and staff recommends the revision of the language within condition of Approval 5 for clarification purposes. Other options for City Council action this evening are to either deny the appeal and uphold the Planning Commission and Zoning Administrator approval of this permit, to uphold the appeal and direct staff to prepare a resolution with the specific findings for denial of the minor use permit, and further to continue the public hearing for additional information or project revisions. That concludes my presentation. Staff's available for any questions you may have. |
| 00:53:03.52 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Any questions of staff? Okay, Joe. |
| 00:53:09.44 | Joe Burns | Thank you, Kelvin. Seems like I've heard this before. I sat through the Planning Commission meetings I think we all have on video. So a lot of this is new, or is not new, but thank you for your presentation. One thing that was new is a letter that we received today, I believe, from a resident that stated Mill Valley and Tiburon have enacted some type of ordinance or zoning implementation that prohibits within a certain footage or adjacent to a school and alcohol serving I didn't know that, so I immediately went to both zoning codes. I couldn't find anything. Do you have any information on that? |
| 00:53:52.01 | Calvin Chan | Thank you. So staff did look into the zoning codes for both Mill Valley and Tiberon. Those provisions were not located by staff. Staff did reach out to the planning department for both Mill Valley and Tiberon, and they were not aware of and could not find these provisions themselves. |
| 00:54:12.42 | Joe Burns | Thank you. |
| 00:54:12.43 | Calvin Chan | Thank you. |
| 00:54:12.53 | Joe Burns | Thank you. |
| 00:54:14.19 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. |
| 00:54:14.22 | Jill Hoffman | Susan. |
| 00:54:15.83 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Yeah, you showed on one of the slides screening between the parking area for the Between the nursery school, yeah. So is that screening within the control of the nursery school or within the control of the building owner? |
| 00:54:31.60 | Calvin Chan | It is within the control of the nursery school. |
| 00:54:34.09 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Okay. And that's my only oh and then you talked about some change in the language about modification to the permit. |
| 00:54:51.09 | Calvin Chan | Right, so for condition of approval 5, staff recommends the addition of this clarification language. I previously read that the director may modify the permit approval and staff recommends that be clarified to may seek modification of the permit approval. |
| 00:55:06.89 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | And is that seeking modification from the planning commission, from the city council, or what body would that go to? |
| 00:55:18.13 | Calvin Chan | It would be whoever the granting of body is. So if the minor use permit is granted by the city council this evening, then I believe it would lie within the city council. And I defer to the city attorney if there's any other opinion. |
| 00:55:20.96 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Okay. |
| 00:55:30.72 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | And modification includes revocation. |
| 00:55:34.51 | Calvin Chan | Yes, I believe so. |
| 00:55:37.65 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Okay, thank you. |
| 00:55:42.11 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Calvin, you mentioned an ABC hearing. Were there any objections lodged to the ABC license application? |
| 00:55:51.24 | Calvin Chan | I have spoken with ABC. They said that they did receive a complaint filed by Sparrow Creek Montessori School. |
| 00:55:57.36 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | And was that complaint aired at the public hearing on ABC's granting of the license? |
| 00:56:04.33 | Calvin Chan | So the license has not been granted by ABC yet. They are awaiting determination from the local agency. |
| 00:56:10.66 | Jill Hoffman | Okay. Thanks. |
| 00:56:11.94 | Calvin Chan | Thank you. |
| 00:56:13.43 | Jill Hoffman | And by local agency you mean us? Us. Okay, thanks. Just to be clear. And so, okay, so let's go back to number five, the condition number five, because I thought, you know, the director may modify. It was pretty clear that the director could modify. But so then how does this work? The director may seek modification. So let's say, hypothetically, you know, it's we grant the minor use permit. How would it work? And then and then the operation starts and then these, you know, there is serious impact to the community as people are concerned about and we've read and heard about. So what would the process be then? what would the process be for them to seek modification of the use permit and maybe revocation based on violations of these four? Maybe these conditions, or maybe just you know that they can show now show negative impacts in the community so I think that's a good question. Don't you love this on the fly question? Don't you love this on the fly question? Anyway, go ahead. Whoever wants to answer is great. |
| 00:57:20.52 | Calvin Chan | So I believe there would first be fact collecting and then fact verification and then definitely a public hearing process as this permit was allowed first through a public hearing, discretionary hearing process. So I think it would need to go through that again. I defer to the city attorney if there are any other considerations. Yeah. |
| 00:57:40.57 | Mary Wagner | Yeah, I. Sorry. |
| 00:57:41.24 | Calvin Chan | Sorry, general. |
| 00:57:41.92 | Jill Hoffman | Generally, just briefly, what would the process be? |
| 00:57:44.54 | Mary Wagner | Yeah, I think Calvin is correct. I mean, in order to modify a permit that's been granted pursuant to this process, you have to go through the same process to change it. And revocation of a permit is a due process issue. Requires notice, hearing, due process rights, all those sorts of things. So the purpose of the change was to ensure that it was clear to the public and to anyone else looking at this condition that it would need to go through that process. So it implied that the director could unilaterally make that change and that's just not accurate and it wasn't intended to say that. So we wanted to make sure that it was clear to everyone what that actually would look like. |
| 00:58:27.64 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, I'm going to ask a follow-up question on that. So what would the process be? Would it go back to Danny for an initial, you know, an initial whatever opinion? And then go to the planning commission and then come to us? Or how would that work? |
| 00:58:41.00 | Mary Wagner | So there's a couple things here. One, we could pursue some kind of code enforcement. So if there's a violation of a condition, that can actually go through a code enforcement proceeding. If there's violation of, for example, where alcohol is being consumed, that might even involve police activity. So it somewhat depends on what the issue is. If we were seeking to modify a permit that's been granted by the council, we would bring that back to you at a notice public hearing and with a staff report and all the other attending information to tell you why the request is being made. And that would include a revocation. IT COULD. The process would be similar. Thank you. |
| 00:59:20.99 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | OK. |
| 00:59:21.28 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 00:59:21.30 | Mary Wagner | Got it. Thank you. |
| 00:59:23.02 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | All right, any other questions of staff? All right, seeing none, we will hear from |
| 00:59:34.32 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | applicant know that appellate the appellant. |
| 00:59:43.01 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Appellant. Sorry about that. That's the way they did it, the Planning Commissioner. |
| 00:59:46.76 | Ann Arnot | Thank you. |
| 00:59:46.80 | Richard Van Duzer | Yeah. |
| 00:59:47.22 | Ann Arnot | Thank you. |
| 00:59:50.27 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | How long? |
| 00:59:50.47 | Richard Van Duzer | Council and Council members, good evening. My name is Richard Van Duzer. I'm an attorney. |
| 00:59:54.29 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | We're here. We're putting 10 minutes on your clock. I understand. |
| 00:59:56.30 | Richard Van Duzer | I understand. Thank you. I'm an attorney at the law firm of Pharrell Bronner Martell in San Francisco, and I represent the Sparrow Creek School and the appellant on this matter. I think you all have probably viewed the video from the Planning Department hearing. And so what I'm probably going to say here will sound a bit repetitious. I'm going to take some of our time dealing primarily with the legal issue of the permitting process and the issue of permitting. And then Julia Arno, who's a member of the board of the school, is going to address some of the condition items that staff just discussed with you and that you've read about. The primary basis of our appeal from a legal perspective is that this permit has, in fact, lapsed. And the Sausalito Municipal Code, as I'm sure you know, essentially says that a conditional use permit, once it's activated and implemented, remains valid unless it lapses. And it defines lapses to mean, in essence, discontinued use for more than six consecutive months. And if there's been a discontinued use for more than six consecutive months, the Municipal Code mandates, provide you with no discretion, it says you shall essentially determined that the permit has lapsed and if the permit has lapsed the use cannot continue without application for and the obtaining of a new conditional use permit if you look at the facts here it's pretty clear we believe that the permitted use which is defined in the conditional use permit as the operation of a 22-seat restaurant was discontinued for long, long more than six consecutive months. The facts and the records, suggests that the restaurant itself, Amy's, was abandoned as early as July of 2010 and as late as October 2010, depending upon who you believe and what you look at. The restaurant was, as you heard from staff, abandoned and left in a state of disarray. Amy's had no intention of returning. They ceased paying rent. The landlord had every opportunity to terminate the lease, and in fact did. And the record shows that the landlord put this property back on the market to lease in May of 2011. It remained on the market for lease until late November of 2012, and then ultimately the California Caviar Company entered into a lease in November of 2012. And then ultimately, the California Caviar Company entered into a lease in December of 2012, more than two years after the restaurant was abandoned by Amy's Cafe. You've heard a number of things from staff in terms of what they believe continued in the sense of a permitted use of this property. Let me address just a couple of those. number one the fact that aim excuse me the fact that california caviar company was using an office above suite number five which is the area that is subject to the conditional use permit is absolutely irrelevant what matters is whether the use of suite five was discontinued or not as a restaurant which in fact it was the fact that caviar the caviar company was talking to the city was talking to the city, was talking to the landlord, was talking to architects, was talking to contractors, again, is absolutely irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that until they signed a lease in December 2012, the California Caviar Company had absolutely no right to occupy that premises, let alone use it consistent with the conditional use permit. the What you've also heard from staff is that in order for the permitted use to lapse, there has to be a complete abandonment of the use by the landlord, or the landlord has to seek or use the premises for a different purpose. Also, not the law and not relevant. What matters here is whether or not the permitted use, the restaurant use of that property, was discontinued for a period of six consecutive months. There is no doubt that it did, and it was. And as a result, we don't believe that the council or the planning department had any discretion but to determine that a new conditional use permit would be required and go through that process, and that the minor use permit that's being sought here today and the occupancy use permit that was sought and obtained by California Caviar Company in November of 2012 was invalid, unenforceable, and as a matter of law, has no effect. Um, In terms of the conditions, and I'll leave some of the facts to be discussed by Ms. Arno, but the one condition that I did want to speak to was the condition of food being served on the premises. We heard a lot from staff about the fact that this permit is being granted to complement the tasting room experience. we've heard that it is supposed to be the sale and the consumption of beer and wine is supposed to be ancillary to the operation of the facility as a caviar tasting company, and we've heard that food is to be available. What we haven't heard and what the conditions do not provide for is for the purchase of food in order to be eligible to purchase beer and or wine, or to at least participate in a tasting of caviar. There's nothing under the current conditions that would prohibit the California Caviar Company for simply serving beer and wine to people who come off the street with no interest in tasting caviar and with no interest in buying any food. And so one of the conditions that we would ask to be modified is in fact that condition, that the food not only be made available, but that it be required to be purchased as a condition of being able to drink wine and or beer at the premises, or at least be purchased in connection with the tasting of caviar, which as we heard, is the primary business of the California Caviar Company in that location. So with that, I will, unless you have questions, turn it over to Ms. Arno, and I can come back up later if there's more time if you do have further questions. Thank you. |
| 01:06:22.60 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Okay. |
| 01:06:22.97 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:06:23.04 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | And |
| 01:06:23.51 | Richard Van Duzer | Okay. |
| 01:06:23.70 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. |
| 01:06:23.73 | Richard Van Duzer | Thank you. |
| 01:06:23.75 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. |
| 01:06:23.76 | Richard Van Duzer | Thank you. |
| 01:06:24.67 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Yeah, I have a question. Are you aware of any other restaurant in Marin County that has that condition of approval attached to it? |
| 01:06:25.67 | Richard Van Duzer | Thank you. |
| 01:06:33.33 | Richard Van Duzer | I'm sorry, I'm not sure I understand which condition of approval. So you just... |
| 01:06:35.26 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | So you just... You just asked for a condition that you must purchase. |
| 01:06:36.54 | Richard Van Duzer | You know? Oh. No, I'm not. I am not. But my point here is that if, in fact, this is to be something I just, sorry. |
| 01:06:42.88 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. |
| 01:06:46.56 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | I just, sorry, I just, that was my question. Okay, thank you. |
| 01:06:48.03 | Joe Burns | That was a good idea. |
| 01:06:49.73 | Richard Van Duzer | Thank you. |
| 01:06:49.77 | Joe Burns | Okay. question and I don't know if you know maybe you have to ask your client when did they first formally complain or make notice to the city of regarding Caviar's occupational permit |
| 01:07:06.88 | Richard Van Duzer | The occupational permit, I believe, was granted on November 27, 2012. The lease was signed, I believe, during the first week of December of 2012. I don't know factually when operation of the caviar company began, but obviously it had to have began after that. And I believe that, as I think we've seen, the application for the minor use permit, which would permit the sale of alcohol and beer, wasn't applied for until June of 2017. And I believe it was at that point that the objections were raised. Correct. So the |
| 01:07:38.38 | Joe Burns | And that's when the occupants So the occupancy wasn't a concern between 2012 and 2017? |
| 01:07:45.03 | Richard Van Duzer | team. |
| 01:07:45.34 | Joe Burns | Thank you. |
| 01:07:45.35 | Richard Van Duzer | . Occupancy of the present, no, occupancy in the operation of the California Caviar Company as a tasting facility was not, no. Thank you. |
| 01:07:55.45 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | And are you asserting that the I WANT TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE issuance of a minor use permit, sorry, of the occupancy permit is jurisdictional, that a flaw in that process can be asserted at any time and bears no statute of limitation? |
| 01:08:17.57 | Richard Van Duzer | No, I'm not asserting that. What I'm saying is that if the conditional use permit had lapsed prior to November of 2012, when the occupancy use permit was granted, it was granted without jurisdiction, correct? If that's what you meant by your question, yes. That the council had, or the city had, no discretion at that point, no jurisdiction to grant that permit in light of the fact that the conditional use permit had lapsed. |
| 01:08:43.74 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | And then you made some assertions about the about how the city interpreted whether or not the continuing use constituted a proper use under the Sausalito Municipal Code 10.50.150B. What is the basis for that assertion? Because different jurisdictions have different provisions governing their minor use permits. Some have a year, some have of six months so what is the basis for your assertion that Sausalito improperly applied its own minor use permit ordinance |
| 01:09:12.51 | Unknown | and, |
| 01:09:23.65 | Richard Van Duzer | you THEIR OWNERS. taking the position that the city misapplied its minor use permit process what i'm saying is that once the use the conditional use that was granted by the conditional use permit in 2009 when it was first issued and once it was activated that if that use if that if use as a restaurant ceased for a six month or more period consecutively, then the statute, the code, provides the city with no discretion. It says it shall be deemed to have lapsed. And if it has lapsed, the code also says very clearly that a new conditional use permit is required. So, Did I answer your question? |
| 01:10:08.59 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | I'm sorry. |
| 01:10:10.07 | Richard Van Duzer | . |
| 01:10:10.23 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. Yes. So, and when you were quoting the Sausalito Ordinance, you said, you quoted the language that has been discontinued for more than six consecutive months after it was operated. But the code actually says six consecutive months after it was established and or operated. |
| 01:10:28.01 | Richard Van Duzer | THAT'S CORRECT. |
| 01:10:28.27 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. |
| 01:10:28.38 | Richard Van Duzer | It does. I didn't mean to misquote the code. I don't think it makes a difference. I don't think it makes a difference because the conditional use permit doesn't even become effective until it's activated and implemented according to the Sausalito Code. And when it was activated and implemented by Amy's and a restaurant was being operated, once it was being operated as a restaurant, if it ceased being actively operated as a restaurant, if it discontinued, if the permitted use discontinued for a period of six consecutive months, then in fact the permit, the condition use permit, had lapsed. |
| 01:11:05.74 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | And so under your reasoning, is it possible for a use to be discontinued while there's still an active lease? for the property. |
| 01:11:14.01 | Richard Van Duzer | Thank you. I believe there can be, yes. I think permitted use means use it in accordance with the conditional use permit, which in this case required the operation of a restaurant in that space. |
| 01:11:24.74 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Okay, and so you would say that if a, hypothetically, if a minor use permit were granted for a restaurant use, and it took seven months for the restaurant to be built, you would say that that permitted use had lapsed? |
| 01:11:39.19 | Richard Van Duzer | No, because then the lease is being actually used. The restaurant space is being built out. It is being used for the purposes of establishing a restaurant. None of that happened here. There was nothing going on in that space, zero. until after that lease was signed in December of 2012. There was a lot of planning going on. But there was nothing going on in the space. |
| 01:12:01.60 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | And so from your perspective, planning for a future restaurant use does not satisfy the code requirement that the use be continuous. |
| 01:12:13.43 | Richard Van Duzer | Absolutely not, particularly by someone who has no right to be in the space because they have no lease. |
| 01:12:19.20 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. |
| 01:12:22.09 | Richard Van Duzer | Thank you. |
| 01:12:27.49 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | You have three minutes and 37 seconds left and you may reserve some of that time to respond to comments from others if you like. |
| 01:12:35.33 | Julia Arno | Thank you so much. Good evening, council members. I just wanted to point out- |
| 01:12:39.11 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | But you get five minutes to respond. As well. |
| 01:12:41.68 | Julia Arno | Thank you. I just wanted to point out one thing. Um, um, I do believe it was stated by the city representative, Mr. Chan, that the property owner for Amy's Cafe, there was a lease through 2018. I don't believe there's been any evidence submitted to the director to verify that point. And I would point out councils, point that was just made that we have submitted with our paperwork evidence that would show you that the property owner had actually listed this property for lease. So I'm a little bit confused by that representation because I don't see any evidence in the record that there was an ongoing lease with Amy's Cafe through 2018. So hopefully we can get clarity on that. So I'm here tonight. I wanted to clear up a few things that were mentioned earlier before I go into a few points that I wanted to make. There was a question about the ABC appeals process. And I will tell you that Sparrow Creek School has submitted an appeal. It was accepted by the ABC board, and a hearing will be set. I will also say that one of the reasons for acceptance was that we are a school, and that the ABC does consider appeals from schools. There is actually language in the ABC material that says that if you're a school within 600 feet, that the ABC will automatically consider your concerns. Now, it does not mean that our concerns will prevail, but it is certainly a consideration that the ABC does take into consideration. So I just wanted to point that out. The other thing that I hope you all could see is the material that we submitted on behalf of the school shows very clear pictures of the overhead walkway and how it looks down on the school. And it also shows the parking lot and how that is open. That black covering is just used for rain days for the school. Most of the time you can look right through to that parking lot into the play space for the school. Okay, so getting those things out of the way. I'm here tonight as a member of the Sparrow Creek Board of Directors, but I'm also here as a concerned parent who had two children who have graduated from Sparrow Creek School. Tonight you've heard some legal reasons why the application of the California Caviar Company should be denied. What I'd like to focus on, and perhaps the most important thing, for the folks that are not fully represented tonight, because it's probably beyond their bedtime, are the children that go to Sparrow Creek School, and how it will negatively impact them to have patrons from perhaps one bar on one side, Smitty's down the street, over to the California Caviar Company, which is asking for a beer and wine license, as they walk over the walkway, and they're down there in the schoolyard experiencing bar patrons going to and from bar establishments. That's what this will be. One of the things that I hope we can all agree on is that we don't want to have any negative effects for the children as people walk to and fro from one bar to the next. We don't want them to be experiencing adult conversations. I know there was a conversation about smoking. We don't want smoking butts even though it's illegal. We still see them on the playground at the school. We don't want those kind of negative effects right next to children. One of the things I wanted to really hone in on is the hours of operation. If this appeal is going to be approved, I would absolutely encourage the council to think about shifting the hours of operation for the school or for the caviar company. There's been talk about hours of 8 to 4. The truth is the aftercare program, there are children out there in the backyard of the school more often than not. And I can speak to that because I was one of those working moms that didn't get to the school at 4 o'clock to pick up my children. So even though the school operations for the school there is aftercare and there are kids in that backyard and I would just really petition the council that if this is approved maybe we could shift the hours to 6 o'clock. Thank you. |
| 01:16:25.24 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | THANK YOU. |
| 01:16:30.25 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | OK now we'll hear from the applicant. Were there any questions at the... Oh, actually, sorry, there was a question, so we're going to allow the vice mayor to ask his question while it's fresh in his mind. |
| 01:16:36.92 | Ann Arnot | Oh, actually. |
| 01:16:42.38 | Joe Burns | No. |
| 01:16:45.62 | Julia Arno | Was it for me? |
| 01:16:46.45 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. |
| 01:16:46.55 | Julia Arno | . |
| 01:16:46.55 | Joe Burns | I believe so, but I'm not sure. It's more about the operations of the school. Yeah, sure. Okay. I'm looking for something here. Looking between the lines. Yeah. There seems to be an issue with adjacency. |
| 01:16:46.60 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | THE FAMILY. Yeah, sure. |
| 01:16:49.69 | Julia Arno | Okay. |
| 01:16:53.89 | Ann Arnot | Thank you. |
| 01:16:53.93 | Freshdi Khashani | Yeah. |
| 01:16:57.55 | Joe Burns | and adjacent seems to be the key word. Is there anything, whether it be with your Montessori relationship, contractual, insurance, that that word is relevant adjacent to a business that sells alcohol? Is there anything in your, that you know of in the Montessori school codes? |
| 01:17:16.44 | Julia Arno | That requires us not to be next to an alcohol establishment. |
| 01:17:18.12 | Joe Burns | TO Or that your insurance might go up or licensing. |
| 01:17:21.31 | Julia Arno | Well, certainly insurance will go up as I happen to be in that field. But I can't speak to those conditions in more detail. We could certainly brief you on that. The school's concern is that we hope the business, we can come to an accommodation is what we're hoping. Because we just don't want the kids exposed to alcohol patrons. That's all. And we're hoping that we can come to some understanding. We're certainly not trying to interfere with a business's right to have a business, but the school's been there for 35 years. I'm just hopeful that we can come to some kind of compromise on this matter. Thank you. |
| 01:17:23.61 | Joe Burns | It will go up. |
| 01:17:57.58 | Jill Hoffman | Any more questions? |
| 01:17:57.73 | Julia Arno | THANK YOU. |
| 01:17:58.96 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. |
| 01:18:04.06 | Julia Arno | I'm not. |
| 01:18:04.28 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:18:04.31 | Julia Arno | Thank you. |
| 01:18:04.43 | Unknown | THE END OF |
| 01:18:04.50 | Julia Arno | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 01:18:04.53 | Unknown | All right. |
| 01:18:07.70 | Jill Hoffman | THIS IS JUST A WARNING. I'M GOING TO ASK ABOUT THE and I'm going to ask that of our city attorney and of our community development director and I'm going to ask, I'm sorry, the attorney that wrote this letter. of authority for your interpretation. Because it seems to me there's two different types of interpretations on what constitute a lapse. So this is just fair warning. This question's coming. And so I'm sorry, now the applicant. |
| 01:18:36.83 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Yeah, and I think also another question to be asked is how has Sausalito treated other permits for other establishments? that have discontinued their use for some period of time. But we won't ask those now, we want to hear from the applicant. |
| 01:18:59.86 | Rick Warren | Good evening, members of the council. My name is Rick Warren. I'm an attorney specializing in representing alcohol licensees. I want to direct my comments to the legal points that were raised by the appellant here, and that is the contention that when a tenant, a restaurant tenant, Um, comes into some sort of disagreement with their landlord, trashes the premises, takes away the toilets, takes away the lighting fixtures, takes away the plumbing fixtures, and leaves the space unusable, that somehow that can start the running of a six-month Mandatory clock. that's going to deprive the landlord. The conditional use is a property right that goes with the property. It's the landlord's right. And that that action by the tenant, and then furthermore, the facts of this case, the tenant also resisted surrendering the lease or terminating its lease. The landlord had to sue for eviction. If that takes more than six months, the landlord then has to come back to the zoning, the Planning Commission and ask again for conditional use permit. That's the outcome that would follow if you accept the appellant's contention and interpretation of your ordinance and what it means to be discontinued, for the use to be discontinued for six months. Instead, what staff here has done is they say, wait, The landlord didn't discontinue the use. The landlord was stuck with a lease that it had to sue to terminate. It stuck with a premises which has been trashed by a disgruntled tenant, which it has to then get permits to seek to repair just to restore it to basic condition where any other tenant could be attracted to, say, we're going to lease it again and start again to be a restaurant. So I wanted to address that point only. Okay. I'll call on Ms. Keen to present the rest. Thank you. |
| 01:21:00.35 | Julia Arno | Thank you. |
| 01:21:01.15 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Any questions ask them after it will yeah. |
| 01:21:01.52 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. |
| 01:21:01.53 | Rick Warren | Thank you. |
| 01:21:01.58 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 01:21:04.54 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. |
| 01:21:11.79 | Deborah Keene | Good evening, council members. Thank you. I guess we have a little bit. little information but I think because of the short period of time I want to address some of the more critical questions that are coming up this evening versus going over, but a little bit of who I am. What we're looking to do here is I'm the first woman-owned caviar company in the US. I was raised by a teacher. She just retired at 78 years old. which is a National Educator Association recipient award winner in the state of Massachusetts. So I'm very sensitive to the world protecting and living for your children. And especially where I am a neonatal intensive care nurse as well. But essentially what my company is about as to change the sustainability of the caviar world. and working with chefs and people in the industry to change the wild for the endangered species, these prehistoric animals, to, working with the sustainability in aquaculture. Let me, |
| 01:22:21.62 | Ann Arnot | let me, |
| 01:22:23.24 | Deborah Keene | do a little bit of this so I can skip through this because we don't have a lot of time. Essentially, what we've done is we've partnered with all the top associations, both around the country, around the world, and also with top chefs to try to educate and to share. And what our goal was is to take what I'm doing currently, which is working with the top chefs and distributors throughout the country, and now bring it a little bit closer to the consumer to educate. So what our goal is to have caviar side by side, tasting room, restaurant, how to pair, how to share, and how to find the best source of caviar there is in the US. We have shared and we have partnered with numerous different people around the world locally and work for the CIA and multiple other companies in culinary institutes throughout the country. One of the goals for me is to integrate caviar. And what happened is that when we got to the space, and I was upstairs, fell in love with Sausalito, lived here back in the 90s, fell in love with it, brought my company back here. This space was available. My landlord told me that the person that was downstairs when I inquired after they'd left in the middle of the night said that they had a lease through 2018. So I went to the city, asked him what could be done, and they gave me the instructions accordingly how to do that. It was gutted. And he had to go through to his due diligence, because he did have a lease. And if they came back, he had to explain what he was doing. So it took quite a period of time before he went through finding her, seeing if she left the country, what had to do before he was able to go through that. So that took quite some time and well over a year, or close to a year to do that. I do have pictures of this in here, as far as what it looked like. It was gutted. In fact, it was left with bags of feces and all sorts of horrible things in there. So it took quite some time to figure it out. Also, it does have a lease. The lease is registered and is in the public file through 2018 for that company. I also want to call to the attention that, well, I'm not the first to have this situation in Sausalito. I know that suite number four also was unoccupied for well over two years, maybe three. They did not have construction issues as I did. Everything was gutted from the doors. the light fixtures, the light bulbs, they stripped the place. And until he could decide what could be done, he did go through due diligence. He did say, he said, Deb, I want you to take this over, but I have to do this. I have to do the lease. I have to go through all this process. And so we worked together, and we were occupying it, working and asking for permission every step of the way. Because this is new for me, and I hadn't done it before, so I worked. And also your staff members at the Planning Commission, Heidi at the time, they all came by to see the space, to take a look at it and to do their work and their homework to see what the situation was through that process. One of the things that I'd really like to do is to start to work together. And I haven't gotten any, I've been there for 10 years upstairs. And I've been next to the school. I've never had a single complaint from any neighbor, any person, any police. No, never in the 10 years I've been there. And I have reached out to try to work. My lawyer has to reach out to try to work with them, to try to work together on this. Because their problems with the smoking in the parking lot is our problem, too. These are not our customers. We are not allowed to have our customers. They don't even know it's our space. This is other people going to Smitty's. And when I was here the last hearing, the chairman of the the Planning Commission suggested we reach out to Smitty's, and I actually went over and I talked to him. I said, Bill, if there's a problem, can I call you? You know, have you heard? What's going on? You know, what can I do? Your people are parking here. I've, you know, and this stuff, things at any time call me. I've reached out to him per recommendation. I also realized that I haven't gotten any, I'm sorry. resistance from anybody other than the school. And so I went to the park, and I went and had a massage. I was sitting at the little Japanese restaurant, and I saw all these people pulling up. It was a beautiful day. So I went to the park, and I said, do you walk to this park? And they said, yes. I said, how do you walk to the park? And they told me that I said, Do you walk on Bridgeway? And they said, yeah, every day I walk by Bridgeway. And they said, do you know California Cavalier Company? Can I ask you a question? And they said, no, is that that black awning? Yeah, you look closed. That's one of the reasons why the city came to me. Like, Dad, we want you to take it to the next level. We just want to take your experience, what you're doing, to the next level, and be able to fully utilize the permit that I have. And so I said, do you have any problems? Are you concerned with your daughter and your children as she was four? And a couple of the parents, and they said, no, we don't. And in fact, I can't see how that would be an issue for us, but we don't like to always walk by Smitty's because they're smoking there and things like that. So they do deliberately go by, and I've been there for years, and they've never had any concerns, and we will be inside. So I have tried to reach out to any of the locals and my close neighbors, and I haven't received any negative feedback. And each step of the way, I've tried to ask for permission. I've asked my landlord about signs, added signs, more permits, even petitioning it off, we've tried whether or not we can park, THE FAMILY. fixing the walkways and things like that. Anything that we could do to help with the situation with the school. And at this point, and we've reached out to everyone to try to adhere to whatever it is that some of the concerns that the parents have. And we're very open to working together. And I'd rather do a dinosaur project. I love Rick, but I'd rather spend the money to the school saving this prehistoric Jurassic program and teaching the kids about the oceans and do a dinosaur project because they're dinosaurs. There are 200. They come from the Jurassic era. And I'd rather do something like that and spend my money there and work together with the school. And listen, I've changed my hours of operation. I've changed multiple, whatever I can to try to make them feel more comfortable. And especially in that number five, I guess, You know, if anything happens, call me. You know, I'll be there. I'm a woman-run business with women employees. I'm not looking to run a bar. I'm just looking to have that experience. It's really hard to have this caviar experience without having a sparkling wine. I've tried it. It doesn't really work. So I appreciate your time. |
| 01:29:09.49 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. Any questions of the applicant? |
| 01:29:12.49 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Yeah, I have a couple questions. |
| 01:29:13.51 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Yeah. |
| 01:29:13.98 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. |
| 01:29:14.01 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. |
| 01:29:14.50 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Yeah, so there have been... two specific conditions of approval in addition to the ones that are already referenced by the staff proposed by the nursery school. Do you have thoughts on those? One was that food has to be if someone is purchasing alcohol and the other is reducing or further reducing your hours of operation. |
| 01:29:44.76 | Deborah Keene | Yeah. |
| 01:29:47.71 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Okay, please don't call out. Okay, so reducing the hours for which alcohol may be served. |
| 01:29:53.99 | Deborah Keene | And that's tough. That's tough. We've already made all those adjustments to the school. We have been there for 10 years, and, you know, after 4 o'clock, we haven't seen any kids at the park. It doesn't mean that they don't have kids inside the school, but we haven't really witnessed any children after hours. And I think that would be really hard for me if we do extend the hours, then you're going later. And I just think for that staff and that window to get an employee for three hours, it becomes a very impractical process. And we've changed the days, and we've narrowed down the days, we've narrowed down the hours throughout this process. So I think that would be something that I don't think you'll see a significance at this point to our window when we really haven't seen any children there. And the other issue is I honestly have never been any place where you'd have food But if you drink, you have to have food. And the hard part with caviar is, first of all, when you're coming into a tasting room, you're tasting caviar, let's face it. So that's not going to be that much of a stretch for us. But there are people with seafood allergies. And if they're with their friends, I can't say, you've got to eat something, and I'm not going to have the vegetarian dishes necessarily on our menu. Not that they're going to come in, but if they're with their friends, they want to. And I just don't know how that would absolutely play out at all. And I just haven't. I'm sorry. That's okay. |
| 01:31:17.00 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | And, and, and, and, That's okay. So my second question is where you just mentioned that you've been talking to the landlord about additional signage, about not going up the stairs or about the parking areas. What has the landlord said about that? |
| 01:31:32.30 | Deborah Keene | Thank you so much, Susan. Thank you for the question. Those are great questions. So what we did is he's already looked into them. So one of the things that seems to be one of the biggest issues with a lot of the parents is that parking structure. Sometimes the black is up and down. But I think people sit somewhere toward the hair salon because it's a lower bar or ledge there. And there's some cigarette butts and things that fall over the edge. And one of the issues was, can we block that parking structure where you have an automatic gate. And we already looked into that, and it's not legal to do because it doesn't have a separate, you have to be able to pull off the road, you can't hold up traffic. So we looked into that. |
| 01:32:10.10 | Unknown | be able to pull it out. |
| 01:32:14.22 | Deborah Keene | The other thing we also looked into was having the stairway have some kind of rope but then becomes a fire hazard, or chain, or a gate, and that became a fire hazard. And I think we looked into that, and also Danny and Calvin. That was addressed in one of these other hearings, and we definitely looked into that as well. He said he'll add signage as far as more, no parking, no smoking is, you know, that's, city ordinance, so we can add those, but it's not necessary. But we have cameras now down there, So whenever we go in there, we leave notes now, and we tell them you can't park here. And so we collectively are getting a little bit more organized for ourselves. But it is a problem for us, too. We do have that same issue, but not as much as the school has you know, received. |
| 01:33:08.61 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | OK, and my last question is, so if you were to receive the permission to serve beer and alcohol, what steps would you take to make sure that none of the issues that have been raised, happen so drinking outside drinking up the stairs smoking do you have a plan as to how you would try to curb any of the potential negative impacts. |
| 01:33:39.35 | Deborah Keene | THE POTENTIAL. Absolutely, because it's such, I mean, for me, this is that next experience that I've gone around the country to show people to kind of get that, you know, next level. And for me, this is an add-on. My bulk of my business and my entire inventory is in that space. That is a major liability for me to have. There's no way that I'm going to put that at risk to be able to turn it into some, you know, partying, you know, bar experience. And so for us, we have limited hours. We're going to have really tight pairing menus and dishes that go along with it. There'sally, I cannot have alcohol and serve alcohol in my suite number six or on the deck, according to my ABC license. I'll lose my license if I do that. And according to the new requirements, even though I do have a permit for eight outside seats, which is part of my original occupational and my conditional use permit, I have agreed not to serve outside. Now, that is 50% of my revenue. that I can get for my company. And I was willing to do that for the city and for that experience, but I'm willing to do that at this point so that I can just fully utilize my space. |
| 01:34:59.95 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | So did you agree to that through, maybe this is a question for staff, but through the conditions of approval or the scope of the permit about the outdoor seating? |
| 01:35:08.14 | Deborah Keene | That was proposed to me early on, and I agreed to do it. It wasn't part of the original ABC, so I agreed to change my hours. I agreed we originally were going to do a kind of early window, kind of a lunch to a kind of pre-cocktail. Caviar is pre-cocktail. So I was going to do it from 12 to maybe 8 or 7, and then we were going to be open on weekends and at night, or outside, I should say, outside. And each time we met, I said, OK, OK, OK, OK, to kind of move this process through. And we're still here. Thank you. You're welcome. |
| 01:35:46.19 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | I also had a question so during the Planning Commission hearing it was asked if you'd be willing to put up a no smoking sign even though it is a city ordinance are you willing to do that |
| 01:35:55.13 | Deborah Keene | Yeah. I am, and I got approval for my landlord. He said he'd work with me on that. He's not too happy, and I have to design it exactly like the other ones. But yes, he said he would be willing to work with me on that. |
| 01:36:09.07 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, other questions? It looked to me like from the materials I read that you share the same landlord as the preschool, is that correct? I'm sorry, the Montessori school? No. No, they're separate landlords. Yeah. Okay, sorry. |
| 01:36:19.92 | Deborah Keene | I'm sorry, the monosome. No. Okay, sorry. |
| 01:36:23.35 | Jill Hoffman | Who owns the parking garage? Is it your land? |
| 01:36:25.74 | Deborah Keene | It is my landlord, correct. |
| 01:36:27.01 | Jill Hoffman | And one of the, you know, issues that I saw generally is that, you know, the view inside the parking lot. I mean, I know that doesn't. effect. I mean, I don't think that has to do with you. That has to do with your landlord. |
| 01:36:40.71 | Deborah Keene | do. We've suggested that, too. So we've talked about it. I wanted to talk to the school, but they haven't responded to us. We, I've asked the landlord, can we put up a screen or something? And now he's open for that. We could hang it maybe from the back of the porch or that walkway outside the law firm. We could do that, but it's a lot to ask a landlord to incur that cost for something, you know what I mean? And they've kind of already half-approached it with their black screen that they have on their fence, so that kind of mitigates a little bit of it, but the problem is, on my side, for some reason, I guess it's where the garden, I don't really know on that side, seems to be down more. And the other side, it's up more. And so maybe there's more coming in on the other side. So it's just really hard to get my landlord at this point to |
| 01:37:06.51 | Unknown | I do. |
| 01:37:37.43 | Deborah Keene | But I'm willing to work with them. Hey, I'd rather do this and then more legal fees and more time with my staff to fix that. Because then everybody's happy. Maybe they know they can't be here. |
| 01:37:44.85 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 01:37:48.68 | Jill Hoffman | And I thought I saw too that you have, do you have dedicated parking spots in the city? |
| 01:37:54.51 | Deborah Keene | Every single suite does, and they're all signed, and they all have their own suite number. |
| 01:37:56.21 | Jill Hoffman | Okay. Okay, but it's not your intent to have your patrons park in your parking spots? Yeah, they can't. |
| 01:38:01.98 | Deborah Keene | in your parking spots? Yeah, and I have also, we don't want that. That's just in, we do have some neighbors I notice every weekend they're there, so I don't have to talk to them about that, because they realize it's open. But no, absolutely not. Yeah, and where we are, there's nobody around us. You know, we've got the Bike Odyssey and the Lighthouse Cafe, and there's nobody on the other side. It's the park. And so there's plenty of parking where we are. On the street, on Bridgeway, you mean? Yeah, tons of parking. There's no reason for them to use the parking structure anyway, besides the fact that I barely have enough for my staff anyway. |
| 01:38:23.99 | Jill Hoffman | Mm-hmm. On the street, on Bridgeway, you mean? |
| 01:38:35.44 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, thanks. |
| 01:38:36.00 | Deborah Keene | Thank you. |
| 01:38:36.34 | Jill Hoffman | All right any other questions. |
| 01:38:42.62 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. Thank you. No, five minutes rebuttal, I think. Oh, no, and after. Yeah. |
| 01:38:46.28 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Yeah. So I'm going to open it up for public comment, after which we'll give the appellant an opportunity to rebut. I have a number of speaker cards. If you'd like to comment, please fill out a speaker card, and we'll call your name, and you can be heard. um, Each speaker is limited to three minutes. The first speaker I have is Craig Kolb. Following Craig will be Dawn Robinson, and then Shasha Richardson. |
| 01:39:10.39 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | and then . Thank you. What? Sorry? |
| 01:39:17.21 | Craig Kolb | Thank you. |
| 01:39:17.23 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. |
| 01:39:17.24 | Craig Kolb | Yeah. |
| 01:39:17.45 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Oh, man. |
| 01:39:17.48 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. |
| 01:39:17.50 | Craig Kolb | I'm going to go. crank home |
| 01:39:18.97 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Are you a member of the applicants team, sir? |
| 01:39:22.74 | Craig Kolb | No. |
| 01:39:26.64 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | to the applicant to the |
| 01:39:27.55 | Ann Arnot | the |
| 01:39:29.34 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Dear parents. |
| 01:39:30.96 | Ann Arnot | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 01:39:31.37 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | The appellant. So the appellant has a set period of time for its team. So you'll be able to be heard Oh, I thought you started the three minutes |
| 01:39:42.03 | Craig Kolb | So you just called my name. |
| 01:39:43.25 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. Yeah, you had filled out a speaker card. I didn't realize you were part of the appellant's team. |
| 01:39:48.26 | Craig Kolb | Sparrow Creek County. |
| 01:39:49.78 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | everybody wrote Sparrow Creek because that's the item. |
| 01:39:51.40 | Craig Kolb | Thank you. Okay, my bad. |
| 01:39:55.35 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | That's all right, but your team has five minutes left. |
| 01:40:01.69 | Julia Arno | This is public comment. He's not an attorney or a part of our team in that way. |
| 01:40:10.03 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Okay, I don't know you sir, so somebody said you're a member of. |
| 01:40:15.61 | Julia Arno | . Thank you. |
| 01:40:16.24 | Ann Arnot | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 01:40:17.77 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | I want to hear from everybody who wants to be heard. So I would say come on up and read it. |
| 01:40:25.11 | Ann Arnot | Thank you. |
| 01:40:25.23 | Craig Kolb | Thank you. |
| 01:40:25.39 | Ann Arnot | Thank you. |
| 01:40:25.49 | Craig Kolb | Thank you. |
| 01:40:25.52 | Ann Arnot | Thank you. |
| 01:40:25.82 | Craig Kolb | Thank you. |
| 01:40:29.62 | Craig Kolb | So I'm a teacher at Spare Creek School. I'm the husband of Judith Van Kolb, and I've been teaching there for about 15 years now. Up till about 10 years ago, we used to be open till 6, and I used to stay till 6 o'clock, and sometimes I was out in the backyard with the children. Thank you. We quit that for some reasons and we're reinstating 6 o'clock as of September because of the economic requirements to stay in business. Thank you. The other schools are all open until 5.30 or 6 o'clock. I certainly do not think it's a good idea to have beer and wine budding. in a business of voting the school. anyone's right mind, that's not a great idea. I have a letter here from Paul Geffner of Drivers Market. He couldn't be here. And so I'm going to read this quickly and you all have copies of this. To whom it may concern, as a 20-year resident of Sausalito, and owners of drivers of market in Sausalito, I would like to advocate a reasonable compromise to the dispute between Square Creek Montessori School and the California Caviar Company. I feel that it is fair to acquire that the California Caviar Company serve liquor starting at 6 p.m., not 4 p.m. My son went to Sparrow Creek like many other families in Sausalito. Sparrow Creek was responsible for a fabulous start to his education. My experience has been that no one cares more about the children in our community than Judith and Craig. Requiring the California Caviar Company to restrict serving alcohol until after six seems entirely reasonable. Although there are periods of time that Sparrow Creek closes it for historically there have been many periods when the schools been open until 6 o'clock to assist working parents. To disrupt this capability would be unfair to working families in Sausalito and Marin City and I think is a minor compromise in the context of the welfare of our children. In my mind, Sparrow Creek Montessori School is the great institution in Sausalito. Judith and Craig have worked tirelessly for decades to improve the lives of so many families. Their dedication necessitates our support. Please give them the respect they deserve. and agree to the small compromise signed Paul Giffner, owner of Privers Market. Thank you. |
| 01:42:56.43 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. We'll hear from Dawn Robinson and then Shasha Richardson. |
| 01:43:08.97 | Dawn Robinson | Let me adjust this height. Hi, and I had a son in Judith and Craig Sparrow Creek Montessori School. I'm a teacher as well, and I was one of those parents back in the day who had to work and come late. And so their former hours up until 6 o'clock also included the missing part of, I think, some people's picture, which is parents coming in and filling that, those parking spaces in front of Sparrow Creek and in the area, trying to hop out and scoop up their one or two children to try to get them home, to give them some dinner. So there's a little bit of hustle and bustle from the working parents that I recall. And certainly now as a teacher, I greet many parents who are coming in later than they'd like to, and I would really advocate for a 6 o'clock start for any alcohol serving. I do believe that people can snack and eat whatever it is that is being offered, the quality food that's being offered. I've heard a lot of speech about how proud the business owner is about what she's offering, and so I don't think that that has to be off the table. People can eat, but the concern that I have as a parent and as a teacher is the alcohol and what ends up happening during those times. And the traffic, too, when you're parking and trying to come in and you're dealing with patrons who are also trying to park and trying to come in and out in various degrees of sobriety. And lastly, I do want to thank everyone for hearing my opinion. I love Craig and Judith for having helped to raise my child. He's 16 now. But I do want to say as a teacher that I, at various locations, have picked up what we find in the schoolyard, usually on a Monday morning, without the abutment of alcohol and a business right close by connecting to a playground. But just folks coming in on the weekend, kind of hanging out and chatting around various businesses. So I've done some cleanup crew stuff. And that's part of the reality of a playground environment, such as Sparrow Creek, that there's an open place. And you want it clean, and you want to preserve it as a little sanctuary as much as possible for the kids. So I advocate for that. compromise. Thank you. |
| 01:45:58.97 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. |
| 01:46:00.03 | Dawn Robinson | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 01:46:00.62 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | We'll hear from Shasha Richardson and then Peter Streitman. |
| 01:46:07.02 | Unknown | Hi everyone, Shasha Richardson, I'm a resident of Sausalito. Just want to thank you all for your time and the agenda flexibility and staff for all the work that they've done on this. I know that a lot of time and effort has gone into this and it's a complicated issue. So the reason I'm here, my son attends Sparrow Creek and it's been a fantastic experience. He's one of, I don't know, hundreds, possibly thousands, well probably hundreds of children who've gone through this who are residents of our community. And I just, I love that it is a safe sanctuary for him to attend, and I really, My preference is that we can't be able to This establishment that has been there for 30 years as part of our community is able to continue to operate in this safe environment. And it shouldn't be an issue of business versus kids. We need that collective effort and that mix. But. What I would request is that there's a respectful buffer while the children are there and would not like to have alcohol served in an establishment this close to the school. But if the permit is to be granted that alcohol is not served before 6 PM. So thank you very much, thank you for your time. |
| 01:47:37.28 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. |
| 01:47:37.35 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:47:37.96 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. Okay, Peter Streitman and then Freshdi Khashani. |
| 01:47:44.19 | Peter Streitman | PETER STREETMANN, I'm Peter Streetman, resident of Sausoleo since 1978. My children went to Sparrow Creek I've been a member of the board of directors there for 20 years. And I'm in full support of Judith. I think no alcohol should be consumed in a business set of Butts, Sproak Creek. But in lieu of that, if it could be pushed back to 6 o'clock, That would be very helpful. Thank you. |
| 01:48:19.03 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. We'll hear next from Fresh Chee Kashani and then Roxanne Sheridan. |
| 01:48:32.23 | Freshdi Khashani | Good evening. Thank you for letting me to speak. I'm a business owner and lived in Sausalito for over 30 years. And my kids went to Sparrow Creek. Two kids now, they are 26 and 28. So they love the school and my point here is Of course, no objection to the caviar bar. but however, there are children who are staying after hours as a daycare, and I worked sometimes after seven o'clock The school authorities stayed there and took care of my kids until that time, which I am grateful to them and managed to raise them to this. today. So I am really wanting to ask you for the extension of hours to, instead of four to six o'clock, which is very important for me as a parent and for the young children to be around the school after hours until 6 o'clock that they stay in the school. So it's something that I want to ask the city to consider for the hours. to go to 6 o'clock instead of 4 o'clock. And another concern that came to my mind is because of the alcohol serve, although it's not very strong liquor, but still can be drunk drivers around the vicinity of the school, when still children are there between four and six o'clock. Thank you for letting me to speak. |
| 01:50:11.13 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. |
| 01:50:11.72 | Freshdi Khashani | Thank you. |
| 01:50:11.84 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. |
| 01:50:12.70 | Freshdi Khashani | Thank you. |
| 01:50:12.72 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | THE END OF |
| 01:50:12.95 | Freshdi Khashani | Thank you. |
| 01:50:12.97 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Sam Sheridan and then Judy Ann Anon. |
| 01:50:16.90 | Roxanne Sheridan | Good evening, council members. My name is Roxanne Sheridan, and I've been a resident of Sausalito since 1995. I'm here on behalf of Deborah Keene and California Caviar. I've known Deborah for quite a few years now, and I highly regard her as a friend and a businesswoman. I feel that, I kind of feel like California Caviar is getting a little bit of guilt by being penalized for the sins of others. And I think that this establishment would be a great asset to the city, to its residents, to our visitors. I would urge the council to please consider denying this appeal and allowing Deborah to proceed with the business that I was kind of a little astonished to realize that this has been going on since 2012. This lady's been through a long process of trying to just have a business of her own, to bring a business to this community that will consider it to be an asset. So I highly urge the council to please rule in her favor. Thank you. |
| 01:51:26.41 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. All right, we'll hear from Judy Ann Anon and then from Jennifer Kehoe. |
| 01:51:31.80 | Judy Ann Anon | Good evening. Mayor Cox, council members and staff. I am Judy Ann Einen, I live at 45 Crescenta in Sausalito. I am a former parent of Sparrow Creek. And certainly during the time that my daughter attended, we used extended care pretty consistently. I am a single mom working parent and Judith raised my daughter. She's now 24. I see that I'm in good company. So just two points. Having the extended time, I think, is really important. I hope that you will consider that. And obviously for all of us, safety of children is our top priority, and I hope you will consider that. Thank you. |
| 01:52:14.83 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. All right, we'll hear from Jennifer Kehoe and then Navina Bailey. |
| 01:52:23.77 | Jennifer Kehoe | Hi. My name is Jennifer Kehoe. I'm a six year resident of Sausalito, having moved here with my husband when I was pregnant with my daughter. As a more family friendly place to live in San Francisco. My daughter currently attends Barrow Creek Montessori School, and she's thriving. Whatever they're doing is very special. It's almost magical. Um... I am opposed to the California Thank you. Caviar Company or any other company in the present or the future obtaining a minor use permit to serve any alcohol adjacent to Sparrow Creek School. To me, it is a matter of principle of no alcohol next to kids. My family and I, we love Sausalito. We're at all the family events. We love the people and We've met a lot of lifelong friends, and we just ask the city council to support the families of this town. Thank you. |
| 01:53:23.24 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. All right, Navina Bailey and then Julia Arno. |
| 01:53:33.24 | Navina Bailey | Good evening Mrs. Mayor, good evening council members. My name is Nevena Bailey. I live in Sol Solito with my husband and our children. Our five years old twin goes at the Montessori School. I'm here to object approval of the minor use permit for serving alcohol at California Caviar Company. |
| 01:53:56.55 | Ann Arnot | Yeah. |
| 01:54:00.38 | Navina Bailey | Most of the communities in the country, including throughout Marine, restrict businesses that serve alcohol to be close to schools. And the schools should present a safe and positive environment for our children. As a parent and resident of South Salido, We, We are against the approval of this permit for obvious reasons. We like the business model and idea of California Caviar Company, maybe the place they have chosen is not the best for their business. Judith has created this school with her own hands and funds, and she's been educating, Judith together with her team have been educating young children for the past 30 plus years. They have changed, they have given a great start to so many lives. We believe that we all should show our recognition and respect for that. So, Salito is a wonderful city and since we moved here eight years ago, we've seen it changing a lot. There are more and more young families with children coming here. So, salito is a really different from the other cities in Marin with very vibrant and diverse residents, but it needs more families with children. So let's help this city to attract them. Thank you. |
| 01:55:33.23 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. All right, Julia Arno and then Alex Hanafi. |
| 01:55:38.83 | Ann Arnot | Yeah. I'd like to. |
| 01:55:40.77 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. All right, Alex Sanofi and then Eric Zellhart. |
| 01:55:52.43 | Alex Hanafi | Thanks very much, Mayor Cox and council members and staff. My name's Alex Hanafi. I'm a parent of my four-year-old son at Sparrow Creek. And I'm here to, to register my support for Sparrow Creek and ask that you make a decision opposing the granting of the approval. The reasons are really twofold. There are two things. I mean, first, when I heard about this, I really was surprised there weren't laws on the books that actually prevented this kind of thing from happening. There's something, you know, that just doesn't sit right about having alcohol in proximity to kids. So I think it's important to just recognize that from the start. We're all here because of that, and I think everyone kind of feels it in their core. There's something not quite right about that. But I think there are ways to address it, and I think you've heard some of those tonight in terms of hours or place. The place restrictions are probably harder now, but certainly time restrictions are something that are within your ability to do, too. But I think there's two issues I just wanted to highlight. The first is around fairness. and then second is around families. First, on the fairness issue, I think you've heard that Sparrow Creek has been here for decades. It's been a real key part of this community for decades. I think to have a new business come in and then asked to serve alcohol when they knew that there was a school close by. it seems like that would be something that in your due diligence you might recognize that that might cause some challenges. And so I think it's really proper and appropriate that they're willing to be accommodating in coming into that space. And I think that's a great sign, and I hope that that can be furthered. I think that the second issue is just around families and around the message that the council will be sending. I think there will be a sense of what is the message from this decision about Sausalito as a family-friendly city. And I think there's a really important message that the council can send, and I think you have it within your power to make that decision. Thank you. in a way that accommodates both interests here. So thanks very much for your time and your consideration. |
| 01:57:56.24 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. All right, Eric Zellhart and then Marcos Topolas. |
| 01:58:03.38 | Eric Zellhart | Yes, hi, council. Thank you for your time. My name is Eric Selhart, and I'm a resident of Sausalito. I also work downtown Sausalito, so I spend quite a bit of time walking on Bridgeway and Caledonia streets. And I think it's fantastic what the California Caviar Company has brought to downtown Sausalito, and I wanted to voice my support for them as business, as well as the conditional use permit for them to serve alcohol. I think my question as a citizen of Sausalito is, what business do I want to start seeing come into our commercial mixed use area and I think one of the things we saw in the slides from the staff today was a diversity of business and sustainable businesses that benefit our downtown and I think what the California Caviar Company has brought is a highly unique business. What really gets me about it is their business model around sustainable seafood. And what they've put into that and how much care there is. So as someone who has started a business myself, who's run a business, I know how hard it is, and I know how much passion they've put into it. So first and foremost, I think it's a fantastic business. And I don't think it should be painted in the same light as some of the businesses we've been complaining about, like Smitty's. It's a much smaller establishment. It's not meant to pack people in. And they're looking to bring a different type of customer that's probably not looking to go smoke cigarettes and cause them up downtown. So I think we should look at the business that is being presented here. Second, I mentioned I walk downtown a lot. realistically where the two traffic for the school and where the business is, those are happening on different streets. Bridgeway is our main thru-fair for the city, and that's where the Caviar Company is located. That's where their customers are. The school is adjacent to the back that, but the students are on the other side. So I would not say that students should have beer handed to them out front of school, but I think these are two totally different areas, and I think that should be taken into account. So thank you very much. |
| 01:59:59.73 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. All right, Marcos Topolas and then Rachel Masood. |
| 02:00:06.20 | Unknown | Hello, counsel. My name is Marcos Toplos. I'm also a resident here in Sausalito. I'm here in support of California Caviar, and there's a few things that we went over last time and tonight that I feel like are worth repeating. Some of it being the dedicated parking, especially the fact that there's usage on the street, they're not attracting customers in that parking area. Other is the view for the children. Like Erica just mentioned, they're quite opposite of each other, and you think of the passing of traffic, especially the patrons coming from the committees, I don't understand why they'd walk up the stairs and walk across when they can just walk around the block to the front of the store. It's worth considering. Also, We've had a discussion of limiting hours. And you think of running a business effectively and being that she's already taken back some of that time frame and already cut off a percentage of customers that she had access to throughout the day, that she's already met the terms of the school's hours operating between ending at 4 or is it 6 o'clock? |
| 02:01:04.33 | David Souto | for |
| 02:01:04.55 | Unknown | Thank you, four o'clock. is that How are you supposed to run a business within five hours within that? You think about, like she said, employee costs, bringing driving customers into there. I'm about what California's doing, especially on the sustainable front, their location, and kind of confused how the conflict resides between the two locations when they're both on two different sides of the block. And there's zero access or viewing for the children to see the consumption of alcohol, especially when it's indoors and there's no windows facing the other place. So that being said, I'd like to support California Caviar. Thank you for your time. |
| 02:01:38.10 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. For the record, I said 4 o'clock. It's currently 4 o'clock. They're considering Extending the hours to 6 p.m. starting in September is the testimony we've heard today. All right, Rachel Masood and then Melissa Blaustein. |
| 02:01:51.97 | Rachel Masood | Hello, thank you guys for your time today. So I'm coming here as a resident today of Sausalito. I've been living here a little over a year now, so not as long as some of the people in the audience today. But what's important to me is I want to start a family here. I want to build a life here. And that means a multitude of things. It means, yes, of course, I want a place where children can be safe and secure and that they feel protected from everything that a parent would want one to be protected from. But it also means building businesses. It also means making sure that there's places for adults and youth to go. I think that, of course, if it was directly next door where children could look in and at 9 in the morning there was drinking happening, that would be exceptionally inappropriate. However, having a business that is not viewable unless the parent made the choice to walk in front of it is not really where I think there's a problem then. It's a parent's choice. Where are you going to pick up your child? Where are you going to let them go? What is your decision? Along with that, I think that there's an incredible opportunity. With what Deborah talked about, it's about sustainability. It's about a creature that has been alive for over 250 million years, and that would be an incredible learning moment, a teaching moment for children if there was cooperation between the school and California caviar. These two places could easily coincide as far as teaching programs. As a female with a biology background, I think it's very important for children at a very young age to start being educated more about what's going on in their own culture. We have Sturgeon here in California. And getting to learn about that would be brilliant if we could find a place to compromise. And then in regards to the business hours, I just do not believe that making a business push it till 6 o'clock would be appropriate. When people get off work, they're usually between the hours of 4 and 5, and that's usually where they're looking to come somewhere and unwind. And that doesn't mean going to Schmitty's and getting drunk. That can mean something of coming in, having an elegant pairing of wine and caviar and being able to enjoy a moment to yourself before you go back to the hecticness of life. And I think that is the environment that California Caviar is attempting to provide. Thank you guys so much for your time. Thank you. |
| 02:04:00.98 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. |
| 02:04:01.45 | Rachel Masood | Thank you. |
| 02:04:01.47 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. Melissa Blaustein and then Robert Woodrum. |
| 02:04:07.09 | Melissa Blaustein | Good evening Mayor Cox, Vice Mayor Burns and the City Council. I'm here because I'm a neighbor. I actually live directly at the intersection where California Caviar is located. And I'm here in support of that business. Not only is it clear to me from reading the documents and listening to the Planning Commission meeting that Debra Keene has taken several steps to work with and talk to the school and make accommodations, including drawing back business hours, which will make it much more difficult in terms of possible revenues. But what we really should be looking at here is what it says about mixed use in the general plan, which is we're supposed to promote the use of diversity and economic vitality of Sausalito. I think what we have here is a woman owned business which promotes sustainability. We've already seen that she's a member of the Chamber of Commerce. She's working to be involved in the community. And these are the types of businesses that I'd like to see more of in Sausalito. And I think that it's gonna be a great part of our community to have here. It's important that to note also, there's been potential for modification made in the clarification for this permit. So I think that she has spent her time working with the school. that they have taken the necessary steps and that you should approve it. |
| 02:05:18.92 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. All right, Robert Woodrum and then Anne Lee. |
| 02:05:26.48 | Robert Woodrum | Hi, everybody. I'm Robert Woodrum. I'm a homeowner, business owner, blah, blah, blah. Most of my objections, I guess, are already in the record, but I had a couple other things to mention. Number one is Deborah mentioned that she's been to all the neighbors, and there hasn't been any opposition except the school. I'm a neighbor. I'm next door. I'm opposed. No gray area. I'm absolutely opposed to this. The alcohol on the upper walkway has been kind of glossed over. Everybody. No gray area. I'm absolutely opposed to this The alcohol on the upper walkway has been kind of glossed over everybody Seems to want to think that it doesn't exist I've watched the lady at the hair salon cleaning vomit off of her awning I've watched people picking up the cigarette butts and the beer cans and waking up Bo or whoever was sleeping up there It happens it happens all the time THE FAMILY. |
| 02:06:15.00 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | I'm going to stop you there. Can you stop the clock? You said that they are now picking up beer cans? From the walkway? But alcohol is not yet served at California Caviar? |
| 02:06:23.74 | Robert Woodrum | It's not just... I've picked up beer cans from the walkway. I'm not saying they don't come from California Cameo, but there are people up there drinking. And you can go sit there Friday night at 2.15 in the morning and watch it happen. It's a nice place to sit. |
| 02:06:27.71 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Okay. Okay. |
| 02:06:38.49 | Robert Woodrum | I mean, Thank you. Yep. Let's see. Oh, the other thing is my kids both went to Sparrow Creek and they've both been playing in that backyard till late hours for years. So to say that there are never kids there after four o'clock is disingenuous. I think that's all I've got. I'm opposed to it. So thank you for your time. |
| 02:07:08.34 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. All right, Anne Lee and then Steven Allison. |
| 02:07:16.81 | Anne Lee | I don't know if Lily has any more, but I have three. Good evening. I'm a resident of Sausalito and a woman business owner and also a parent of a student at Sparrow Creek and one that I hope to be going to Sparrow Creek in the future, maybe. So most of what I have to say has already been mentioned. But one of the things I noticed hasn't been mentioned is sort of this kind of this, is it for a business or is it for school? Like what is social leader, council, who are you going to sort of support in this conflict? Yeah, Sparrow Creek. It's a non-profit, but it is a woman-owned, founded business. And we're not really discussing the costs to the school. had that being more establishments that allowed drinking when I viewed Sparrow Creek would have agree to have my daughter go to this school, it would have given me hesitation. What does having another establishment that's so close to the school serving alcohol that's during hours that children are in the building and outside. What does this do for the school and its business? in the future, are we going to lose more parents. Judith is already losing parents right now, Because her hours aren't extended to 6 p.m. But that is going to be a problem if we if California caviar company operates at 4 p.m., that's gonna be a difficult thing for Judith to do, to say that she feels it's a safe place that she can extend the hours to six again. So just looking at it as a business, you know, one business versus another business, they're both great. potential to attract people to Sausalito, but you know, that's just hands down. Sparrow Creek attracts more families with young children and contributes to this community and has been contributing for a long time. And we would love to see that continue. I'm very sympathetic as a business owner to the California Caviar Company. It's a lot of work. I can see the amount of attention and just the effort and the funds that have gone in. But when we're talking about more of what we want for Sausalito and what you envision as a council, why you were elected, what the families who elected you approached you about. And I imagine it was more about bringing and attracting more families so that with young children, so that they can support the schools here. You know, you've done a wonderful job with Willow Creek, and there's a lot of efforts still continuing on with that. So let's keep the good stuff going. Thank you. |
| 02:10:26.98 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | So. Steven Allison and then Constantine Mittendorf. |
| 02:10:34.67 | Steven Allison | Hello, my name's Steven Allison. I'm a Sausalito houseboat resident. I'm a parent of a... of a three-year-old at Sparrow Creek. I'm a psychiatrist. I practiced in Sausalito, and I'm the medical director of the inpatient psychiatric unit, and we're in general hospital. Thank you for your time tonight. It's not likely I come here tonight. We don't get much time as parents of young kids to come in. Frankly, I'd rather be on a date night. This place looks great. Actually, I'd love to be at a date night at a place like this. But the thing is, maybe if the kids are asleep after this, we can find some place. There's a lot of great options here in Sausalito for us to go to for a drink after this. I have no problem with drinking. Frankly, I even like a place like Smitty's now and then. It's gotten a lot of bad talk tonight. So there are not a lot of preschools though in Sausalito, and I just want to speak to what a treasure Sparrow Creek is. as a psychiatrist, we have something we call the frame. And the frame is something that's just, it's the building, it's the practice, it's what allows us to do our job, which is very delicate. And I think everybody knows how precious preschool education is. And at this school, I used to teach, too. I have learned about becoming a better teacher. parent and better in my practice from the way they respect and work with children, and they need the space to do their work. And so |
| 02:12:17.32 | Steven Allison | I think this is a matter of priorities. The law part of this is lost on me. That it's gotten to this point that some cities have these rules and some don't. I think it's a question of priorities. I really hope that if it's a matter of technicalities here, or if it's looking at what the codes are in Sausalito, that that will be done. because Honestly, I see the work that they do If you haven't, if anybody could do an observation, if one of the teachers would allow that, I learned so much by going and sitting in the respect and the way in which everything is so precisely thought of. There's a reason none of the kids are here tonight even talking about this. The way that the teachers think about things, it's different than even any of the other preschools here. This is a real treasure, this school, and I hope that's taken into consideration. Thank you. Thank you very much. |
| 02:13:15.37 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right, Konstantin Mittendorf and then Jeff Shirash. |
| 02:13:21.45 | Constantine Mittendorf | I'm Connie Mittenor, I'm a resident of Sausalito. I've got a son that goes to Sparrow Creek, and I just wanna say I'm very grateful to all the faculty at Sparrow Creek. It really is a wonderful place. And my wife and I both work, so it's difficult for us to pick our kids up and pick our son up during the hours, the limited hours up till four o'clock. So again, we're very grateful that they're gonna be open later in the fall. |
| 02:13:30.20 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:13:30.27 | Ann Arnot | you |
| 02:13:30.32 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:13:46.05 | Constantine Mittendorf | And in that, I'm in full support of Sparrow Creek, and hopefully you can come to a compromise, or everyone can come to a compromise. So thank you for your time. |
| 02:13:54.62 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. All right, and my last speaker card is Jeff Sharash. If anybody else wishes to speak and has not turned in a speaker card, please do so. |
| 02:14:08.88 | Jeff Shirash | Good evening. I'm Jeff Shirash, Sausalito Chamber of Commerce, Chairman of the Board. We are in support of California Caviar and its current conditions. California Caviar really brings something new and unique to Sausalito here. You're really creating a food and wine experience, and something where you're not just coming out on a Friday night and having drinks, getting bombed, or whatever it might be, but really providing an experience where for empty nesters, for baby boomers. Not particularly for the millennials that may be down the street at another establishment. And really understanding of course that food and wine experience, adding the wine to it really does create that experience where you have a glass or two. Not much different than what you're seeing at Magical downtown or Napa Valley wines as well. Those establishments, people do come in and enjoy and have a great experience. They're not getting there to get bombed, but just having a glass of wine or two. With that in mind, of course, yes, there is issue, of course, of children potentially seeing the alcohol, but the alcohol is indoors. It's not like they're walking right by it. They're on two separate streets. I understand those concerns. Also, I'm a parent as well. So being a parent, of course, you are concerned about your child seeing alcohol being out. Same time, sometimes when you go out to dinner in Marin, you can see that just in Marin going to dinner. Especially my daughter sees it from time to time as well. So, but understanding that it is behind closed doors, it's in a controlled environment, it really means a lot. I think of course they could definitely, both Sparrow Creek and California Caviar can be, work together and make it all happen. So once again, chambers in support, thank you. |
| 02:15:53.29 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. All right, Mark Zimelman and then Alice Merrill. |
| 02:16:04.78 | Mark Zimelman | Good evening. Mark Zimmelman, I've been a resident of Osolito since 1991. In good standing, I hasten to add. I've known Debra even longer since I think about 1989. In fact, we were an item at one point. until she ran off at this French dude. So I'm here on behalf of the opposition. |
| 02:16:31.93 | Ann Arnot | . |
| 02:16:35.56 | Mark Zimelman | No, but seriously. |
| 02:16:37.97 | Ann Arnot | Thank you. |
| 02:16:40.03 | Mark Zimelman | One thing I really need to assert here is who Deborah is. She's a mother of an adorable and talented 11-year-old daughter. She was formerly, in another incarnation, a registered nurse. She's the kindest, most rational, most reasonable Thank you. person you could ask for, if, God forbid, there was some horrible event that took place, you need to get to know Deborah. She would be there in a heartbeat with her entire staff helping She'd be the first responder. She is a people person. there is not a mean bone in her body, and there's no chance, there's like minus zero, minus zero chance that she's going to allow any, silliness or drunkenness or mischief going on in a what is a decidedly genteel establishment. This is not like some others that have been mentioned earlier. I'm So, That's really, My point, Deborah is a quality individual. You should be happy that she's a neighbor, not an adversarial. I hope you'd all meet, you'd get together after this, shake hands, have a sit down, get to know each other, and co-exist. to coin a bumper sticker. Okay, thank you. |
| 02:18:00.22 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. Alice Merrill. |
| 02:18:08.15 | Alice Merrill | Hi, Alice Merrill. So this is unfortunate that this is two very good establishments at loggerheads. One has been here a long time, the other one is new. I just think that the that this building, they're not even remotely, in congruity. I mean, they just don't match each other. One is going that way and the other is going that way. There's a huge brick wall. I can't get upset about it. If my children were little, I would not worry about this. If my grandchildren were going to Willow Creek right now, which would be great, I would not worry about this. I just think that, it doesn't make any sense to me. Um, I have one suggestion for the city. If there were 20 minute or five minute or some kind of parking on the Willow Creek in front of Willow Creek, maybe a few more parking spots so that it was easier to pick up and drop off when you didn't have to be in front of on Bridgeway, you would be easier to be there than you would never have to even acknowledge that there was another street on the other side of the road. And that maybe there would be some kind of a solution like that that would make the parents more comfortable. They're not outside. these people are not outside at 4 o'clock. They're in a building with a brick wall. So how is that affecting the children in the playground? Well, you get it. Thank you. Thank you. |
| 02:20:14.36 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. Okay, and with that, we're going to close public comment and bring it up here for discussion. Oh, actually, no, we're going to open it back up to the appellant for their five-minute rebuttal. |
| 02:20:28.28 | Ann Arnot | Thank you. |
| 02:20:28.64 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Yep. |
| 02:20:30.49 | Julia Arno | I apologize for my outburst earlier. I was just trying to clarify one thing that was brought up. We are not asking in a compromised position for the caviar company to restrict their hours. What we're asking is for them to start later. So if they want to extend their hours on the other side, that's really not the school's issue. So we're not asking for a restriction of hours. We're asking for a later start time because of the school hours. There's been a lot of talk tonight about the school hours. I'm the secretary of the board of directors for Sparrow Creek Montessori School. It is a nonprofit, 501. The property is owned by the school, and it has been owned by the school for over 35 years. So we do not have a lease. We own the property. The board of directors ratified a change to acknowledge the school's hours because we had an informal agreement with parents. There was a fee. For parents that did not pick up their kids at 4 o'clock, there have always been kids at the school beyond 4 o'clock. The hours of the school at our website said 8 to 4, but there have always been kids. The board of directors ratified the 6 o'clock time back in September. That has already changed. It has changed to ratify what is already going on. You heard from a lot of parents tonight, myself included, a working mom who picked her kids up after 4 o'clock. And some folks have said there's no kids on the playground. Well, if Deborah Keene's facility is a brick wall and the playground is here, I don't know how that could be verified by looking. You can't look down on the playground from her building. What we're worried about is bar patrons at the parking lot and traversing that walkway, which is a great way to get from one side of bridgeway to the other, and people park on both sides and people walk across that bridgeway all the time. And if a bar opens at 4 o'clock, you can be guaranteed that bar patrons are going to be walking above that playground. That has been there for 35 years in the community. We are hoping to come to a compromise. If we can't come to a compromise, all of the parents you saw here tonight, including our legal counsel, will pursue this matter until we can't pursue it anymore. But we have never been approached by the attorney for the school or Debra Keene to effectuate a compromise. All of the hour compromise that she's been talking about has been in conjunction with the city. We've never been contacted. We have never entered any kind of settlement discussions with Deborah Keene. We've never been approached. So we would like to compromise. We would like to create a space for a caviar company which looks lovely and a school to coexist. But what we would like to have is an hour that respects when the children will be on the playground. And that is the six o'clock start time. Thank you so much. |
| 02:23:21.56 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. Question for you? Have you approached the California caviar? You said they've never reported. |
| 02:23:32.51 | Julia Arno | About the 6 o'clock start time? |
| 02:23:34.42 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | No, about an effort to compromise. You said they've not reached out to you to compromise. |
| 02:23:37.92 | Julia Arno | Well, we haven't represented that we have. Tonight we've heard a lot of representation. I know you haven't. Yeah. I'm just asking if you've |
| 02:23:42.31 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Yeah. |
| 02:23:42.33 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | I know you haven't. |
| 02:23:42.94 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. |
| 02:23:43.97 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | No. You can chat to them. Okay. |
| 02:23:44.00 | Julia Arno | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 02:23:44.03 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Good job. |
| 02:23:44.34 | Julia Arno | Thank you. |
| 02:23:44.39 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. Can I ask a question? Sure. Yeah, it sounds like the school has been experiencing a number of problems due to public intoxication, use of the garage. What steps have you taken with any of the existing establishments or with the Sausalito police or others to kind of address those? I mean, it seems like there's an existing issue. |
| 02:23:47.41 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Yeah. |
| 02:24:08.82 | Julia Arno | Well, it's an ongoing problem that will be made worse by just putting another bar right next to the school. That's not the question. |
| 02:24:12.57 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | That's not the question I asked, actually. |
| 02:24:14.14 | Julia Arno | Well, every morning when the teachers come in the morning, I hear about them cleaning up the cigarette butts and the things that fall down from, Who knows? You know, it's an ongoing problem. It's not something that I think we have an immediate solution to. It's in our neighborhood. This facility is not as close as this new facility will be within 600 feet. Smitty's is not within 600 feet of the school, but it is a commerce area, so it's a problem. So I think she was asking... |
| 02:24:41.80 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | So I think she was asking what steps have you taken? Have you sought code enforcement, for example, of Sausalito's no smoking? ordinance. |
| 02:24:52.19 | Julia Arno | Well, I can't speak to that. There have been a lot of complaints that we've addressed over the years. We could give you a specific list of when we've lodged complaints. I don't have that with me tonight. |
| 02:25:01.67 | Joe Burns | Did you say somebody is not within 600 feet? |
| 02:25:04.68 | Julia Arno | I don't believe so, no. |
| 02:25:05.98 | Joe Burns | It's actually closer to the front door of Sparrow Creek than the front door of the |
| 02:25:10.87 | Julia Arno | It is. OK, well, it's not in the same block as Sparrow Creek. |
| 02:25:14.69 | Joe Burns | Thank you. |
| 02:25:14.72 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Yeah. |
| 02:25:14.96 | Joe Burns | it. |
| 02:25:15.02 | Ann Arnot | that. |
| 02:25:17.84 | Julia Arno | But it predates us, I think. Yeah. |
| 02:25:23.26 | Julia Arno | Any further questions? No, thank you. Thank you so much. I appreciate all the late night. |
| 02:25:25.05 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you so much. I appreciate all of it. |
| 02:25:30.89 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Okay, and now we will give five minutes to the applicant. Thank you. |
| 02:25:41.80 | Deborah Keene | Thank you. OK, five minutes. OK. I want to address a couple of things. First of all, yes, we have. January 30th. 2018 at 4.30. we have reached out to Julia Arnault saying, from my attorney saying, I believe you were representing Sparrow Creek School in opposition to beer and wine license for my client, California Caviar Company. We would love to, in basically reaching out to the school to say it would be agreeable, to mediate, to resolve the issues that raised in the manner that would permit my client to obtain ABC license. We have reached out to you, and I believe it's to your address. So this is an email that I think is already in the documents. |
| 02:26:27.82 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | I'm just going to let the record reflect that Ms. Arnaud is shaking her head and saying no, she didn't receive that. |
| 02:26:34.57 | Deborah Keene | OK. Well, it's in the documents. I think we submitted it as well. Also, I have talked to Judith. Yeah, and both of them have come in. Because there was some question, I think they thought that my original space, upstairs space number six, was actually number five. That I was applying for that. And of course, that would be cause of concern. And they came and they asked me, they said, well, why is that four across the way in your six and not five? I don't know, I don't own the building. And so I did at that time ask them, please come in. Once early in the process, I said, please come in, come see me, and I'd like to show you what I do. And we haven't gotten that far. So I have attempted to reach out, and perhaps they haven't shared it with you. So, and we have been able to talk, you know, throughout, you know, we pass and say hello, but we have attempted to try to work with them as well. Try to address the timing. You know, my biggest concern is, you know, I'm an early, I'm seafood, so it was 7 a.m. to 3 p.m. My chefs are coming in, they're picking up the caviar, they're doing it, you know, in the retailers. Then what I wanted to do is to take, once all that was done, you roll over that stuff to the next stuff and have an early cocktails and pairings and something light in and out. If we start to open at six, that means I shut down my company for three hours, and then I am now serving until 11 o'clock at night. I think that's a worse scenario for me and my staff, and the betterment of my team and putting my company at a liability with all these resources sitting there. to really party and hang out. I want them before dinner, just to have a quick drink and move on. And it's not inexpensive to walk in there. You're not going to sit there. It's $100 ahead, pretty much, with champagne and caviar by the time you leave. You want to in and out and have that experience, and not make it a place where they're going to sit and plant and eat and drink and hang out all night. And that was my concern about changing any of the hours. And I would have to, I mean, it's really hard. doing a six to nine. I can't find a... drink and hang out all night. And that was my concern about changing any of the hours. And I would have to, I mean, it's really hard doing a six to nine. I can't find staff that can cover that. And then you're really, really expanding my operation on, you know, we go on and on, work runs comp and so on and so forth. So I think I've addressed most of the concerns, I think, at the end. |
| 02:28:56.52 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | All right, any questions? |
| 02:28:59.80 | Deborah Keene | Jill? . |
| 02:29:01.11 | Jill Hoffman | I have questions of the applicant, but I have general questions. Okay. All right. Thank you. |
| 02:29:03.56 | Deborah Keene | All right, thank you. May I say one more comment? And I do realize that the school did put They place the school in a mixed zone. Smitty's was already there when the school started. So they were well aware that there were drinking establishments in the neighborhood. I know that's a challenge, but I know that that was It was their choice at that point. And that's what we're trying to do is work after hours and to accommodate exactly what it's zoned for. So thank you. |
| 02:29:35.54 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. |
| 02:29:39.73 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | All right. going to bring it back up here for discussion or questions. Jill, you have questions of staff? |
| 02:29:45.31 | Jill Hoffman | Yes, and as I warned, so this conditional use permit Issue. So we have an issue about, it looks to me like we have an interpretation of the law. Does anybody have any authority? Anybody have any case law that talks about facts as they're interpreted? You know, does the conditional use permit lapse when you cease to use, when the restaurant or whatever you've got to use for ceases operation? Or does it cease when you change the actual use of that property? In other words, is it going to change from restaurant to a dry cleaners to something else. I mean, to me it seems like our staff is interpreting this that it runs with the property until it changes to some other sort of use. So anyway, Mary or whoever, Danny, anybody want to address that? |
| 02:30:39.67 | Mary Wagner | Sure. Okay. I gave you a warning. Yeah, I appreciate that. |
| 02:30:40.76 | Jill Hoffman | I gave you a warning. |
| 02:30:44.39 | Mary Wagner | So I think there is case law on point, California cases. And one in particular that involves an issue in Fort Bragg and the question of whether or not a conditional use permit had lapsed. That particular code provided that you had to kind of perfect or get your use permit expired after a year, similar language to what's in Sausalito. And I mean, what the court said was that the whole purpose of these provisions and the expiration or revocation of use permits when work has not commenced or the use isn't established, is to prevent the reservation of land for future purposes when the permittee has no good faith intent to presently commence upon the proposed use. So they're looking at the intent of the land owner and the potential tenant. And in that case in particular, the court said, you didn't have to actually start construction. It was a housing development that was gonna go in. But they looked to the fact that funds had been expended to acquire the property, resources had been expended to do some planning, to do soil borings, to do other work on the property to establish the use. But the fact that the use hadn't been established and sticks hadn't been put in the ground did not lead to the automatic expiration of that permit. And the court went on to say that you can't just automatically terminate the permit. You would actually have to have a revocation hearing, as we had talked about previously, to revoke that conditional use permit. So I think that the facts that you have in your packet tonight, if you look at attachment eight that staff provided, and this kind of timeline of what occurred. The fact that there were lease issues, the fact that the property had been gutted, the fact that they were pursuing the permits, talking to staff, trying to get permits moving. THEIR PEOPLE ARE GOING TO is the same as occurred in kind of the Fort Bragg case. So I think you have to look to kind of the intent of the property owner and the tenant in this case to look at whether or not the permit had lapsed. And the city didn't take any steps to revoke that permit, but in fact had advised the owner and the applicant that the permit was still valid. |
| 02:32:58.93 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | And to follow on, Jill, as I promised, how has the city treated other minor use permits under the city's ordinance? |
| 02:33:13.13 | Mary Wagner | I think that's a really important and good question as well, because courts look to how the city applies its own ordinances and its rules and when they are trying to establish how to apply them. And we've used similar facts in the past to indicate that uses were not lapsed and that they could continue. I think in one instance there was evidence that the landlord was actively marketing the property for the intended use and that was utilized to say that the permit hadn't lapsed. Thanks. |
| 02:33:44.29 | Jill Hoffman | More okay. |
| 02:33:45.86 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. |
| 02:33:45.90 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 02:33:47.91 | Jill Hoffman | OK. Yeah, actually, does the appellant have a response to that? |
| 02:33:54.77 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | If you want to, and again, I don't mean to be rude when people want to speak. We're recording this and people are watching on television and so it's important to speak from our podium and into our microphone, so. |
| 02:33:56.58 | Jill Hoffman | THE FAMILY. |
| 02:34:07.11 | Richard Van Duzer | I understand. I apologize for that. I'm not familiar with the case that the city attorney has just talked about. It's the first time I've ever heard of it. I suspect that the language of that ordinance is very different from yours, and I'll tell you why. Because the courts will not look to how a city has interpreted their statutes or their ordinances, and they will not defer to the discretion of the planning department where the language is clear on its face and the language in your code is very clear on its face it says that the permitted use if it's discontinued and it's discontinued for six consecutive months the permit shall be deemed to have lapsed we heard earlier well there was damage to the. I refer you to the same exhibit that the city attorney just referred you to. There are photographs in there of the location in its quote-unquote damaged condition. Effectively, all that happened was that the prior tenant removed the fixtures. That's it. If you look at those pictures, you'll see that there was nothing wrong with the space. Secondly, the landlord obviously didn't think this was a problem because as of May of 2011, He started listing the property for lease. So if there was such a problem with his tenant, if there was such a problem with the condition, he wouldn't have done that. He did. But the bottom line is that when a court looks at your code, the court is gonna say, is this plain on its face? And if it's plain on its face, it's not gonna defer to the city's interpretation of that provision. I'd also point out to you that you have a specific code which says that if your permit's about to run out, guess what, you've got a right to request an extension. It wasn't done here. And what in effect, the provision that you have here says if your conditional use permit is about to expire, you can request an extension from the city, and if you request an extension from the city, there has to be public notice and there has to be a public hearing. None of that happened here. The fact of the matter is that this place sat empty for over two years. and no one was doing anything in it. The landlord had it on the market for over a year and a half. before anyone did anything on the inside of this unit. Thank you. I think if you look at the clear language of your code, and I suspect it's very, very different from the one that we just heard about in Fort Bragg, What I think the court's gonna do is it's gonna say, this is clear on its face, and the city does not have the discretion to ignore its own ordinances. It may have the right to interpret its own ordinances where the language is ambiguous, but here it's not. So I think that's how the court will look at it. And I'm happy to obviously hear from the city attorney about what this case is and take a look at it and submit something to you supplementally. But I have not reviewed it personally at this point. |
| 02:36:55.69 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | I think what Councilmember Hoffman was asking was what research you had done to support your proposition through case law. |
| 02:37:02.37 | Richard Van Duzer | I had found no cases that discussed this particular kind of situation. |
| 02:37:10.49 | Joe Burns | You state that a landlord wouldn't offer something for lease without, are you familiar that landlords offer things for lease while there's current lease on the property? Sure, it can happen. Okay. It can happen. I'm confused what you're asking, what you're saying there. |
| 02:37:24.26 | Richard Van Duzer | I'm confused what you're saying there. But to say that in this case, the landlord felt that he could not continue the use in this premises... through almost the very end of 2012, when over a year and a half earlier, that landlord was already leasing, putting on the market for lease, a space that what you've been told tonight, he absolutely couldn't lease to anybody because he had a tenant who was in another country who he had to file litigation against to get rid of. So what I would suggest is that at least in that landlord's mind, and we haven't heard from him. No one has presented, any facts from him. We've heard a lot about the litigation but we've got nothing in the record to support just about anything that's been said. But the fact of the matter is what is in the record is a advertisement by that landlord that was posted in May of 2011 to lease this space out And if this was a landlord who felt handicapped to use the space because he had a prior tenant who had a long-term lease or because there was damage to the premises, by May of 2011, sounds a lot to me like that landlord had gotten past those problems. Thank you. |
| 02:38:36.22 | Joe Burns | Thank you. As a real estate agent, I'll say that we often will at least put advertisements out like that. I mean, that's very, very common, especially when there is a current use on the property. In fact, that's when we would do it. And specifically, looking for other clients. So I don't see any conflict in that. process whatsoever. |
| 02:39:01.10 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | All right, thank you, sir. You're welcome. |
| 02:39:03.67 | Jill Hoffman | Jill, other questions? I do have other questions. Just briefly. And this may be for Danny. So I have a concern about the security of those walkways around the school. And this really doesn't have anything to do with, or may not have anything to do with California Caviar Company, but it has to do with the things and the complaints that we've heard about people up there on those walkways, smoking on the walkways. |
| 02:39:04.53 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. |
| 02:39:04.55 | Unknown | Are you having a good time? |
| 02:39:30.53 | Jill Hoffman | apparently vomiting from the walkways. And is that a public walkway or is that a public right-of-way, the walkway that goes? Does, and is the walkway, it's hard to tell from, the aerial view that I'm looking at right now and the picture that we had, but is there a walkway that goes from Caledonia to Bridgeway over the parking garage? |
| 02:39:54.11 | Danny | No, that walkway provides access to the upper level tenant. |
| 02:39:58.48 | Jill Hoffman | Got it, okay, so if you went up the walkway from Caledonia, |
| 02:40:02.26 | Danny | It's main, it does, it does, I should say it does, that's what its main purpose is. |
| 02:40:05.87 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 02:40:06.02 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | It does. |
| 02:40:06.85 | Jill Hoffman | . |
| 02:40:07.44 | Danny | Yeah, it does. Yeah, and I'm just going to |
| 02:40:08.33 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Yeah, and I'm just going to ask members of the audience to please not call out. So we're just going to conduct this hearing in an orderly fashion. |
| 02:40:28.62 | Calvin Chan | So this walkway, you can access it from both Bridgeway and Caledonia. It does connect to the upper level tenants. It is a private walkway. |
| 02:40:38.09 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | When you say upper level tenant, the tenant above |
| 02:40:42.47 | Calvin Chan | So the upper level tenants are suites four, five, and six. They're the law firm caviar company's office as well as some things. |
| 02:40:45.71 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | I heard that. |
| 02:40:52.65 | Jill Hoffman | So. |
| 02:40:52.97 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | So, |
| 02:40:53.29 | Jill Hoffman | Can you go back to the story? |
| 02:40:53.85 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Can you go back to that? picture? Were you finished saying what you wanted to say, Calvin? I'm sorry I interrupted you. |
| 02:40:59.62 | Calvin Chan | I was just going to say that there are three upper level tenants that this walkway connects to. |
| 02:41:03.97 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Okay. |
| 02:41:04.06 | Calvin Chan | Thank you. |
| 02:41:07.15 | Calvin Chan | Here's that picture again. |
| 02:41:09.56 | Jill Hoffman | So is there a dog? Because it looks like it ends in the doorway. Oh, it goes around the doorway and it goes down. |
| 02:41:13.00 | Calvin Chan | It goes around and goes down. It wraps around. There is a stairway that leads from Bridgeway up here and from Caledonia up here. |
| 02:41:17.71 | Jill Hoffman | Bridgeway. FROM. Yeah. Yeah, I think I got it. So, yeah, it's hard to tell from the audience, right? We did. |
| 02:41:25.98 | Calvin Chan | We did, staff did consult with our building inspector and our building division about the potential of adding a restricted entry point, maybe a gate or a chain. But per California building code, that's not allowed because you need at least a landing platform in order to make that transition. And for this property, it does not have that. |
| 02:41:35.66 | Unknown | Bye. |
| 02:41:45.64 | Jill Hoffman | Okay. Okay. All right. |
| 02:41:58.53 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Okay, all right, all right, so we've had all our questions answered. We've heard from various members of the public, from the appellant and the applicant. It's now time for us to deliberate, so who would like to lead off? |
| 02:42:15.94 | Jill Hoffman | Don't all raise your hand at once. |
| 02:42:17.93 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. of. |
| 02:42:21.34 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, so you know, I think we've all watched like hours and hours of this, right? We've watched the hearings, we've watched the appeal. We've read all the, you know, I mean, I watched- 600 pages. Yeah, and I watched the original. |
| 02:42:33.93 | Rachel Masood | I watched 100 pages. |
| 02:42:35.15 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 02:42:37.16 | Jill Hoffman | hearing with just Danny and sitting down there in the middle. And I'm sure you guys did too. So here's my takeaway, is that we agree on like 95% of everything that everybody said, right? Here's the things we all agree on. Sparrow Creek is a beloved part of our community. We miss Peter Pan donuts, although we didn't hear much about Peter Pan tonight, but I heard that in the other hearings. We do not want inebriated people near our school. We don't want people smoking near our school. We support families in Sausalito. We all support families in Sausalito. I've been very vocal about supporting families in Sausalito. I've been very vocal throughout my time on the council of supporting the schools in Sausalito. We don't want drunk drivers around the school. We want safe and positive environment for our children. Judith has created a magical and safe place for children that goes deep into our community. We all want to support this Sparrow Creek School. I think we have a landlord issue and a nuisance issue in the management of the property that clearly has nothing to do with California Caviar Company because they're not even operating yet. So that is of concern. If somebody wants to bring forward a complaint for nuisance to the city on that issue, I think we would be receptive to that and looking for solutions to that. These are also facts that are not in dispute. The only tasting will go on inside the tasting room. There's no tasting outside the interior of the tasting room. There's no tasting on the balconies of the second floor. Sparrow Creek is mid-block on Caledonia Street. Okay. For those of people watching who may not be familiar, Caledonia Street is one block off Bridgeway. Bridgeway is our main thoroughfare through town. So it goes Caledonia, Bridgeway. In order for somebody to get from the front door of the school to the front door of California Caviar Company, they would have to walk down Caledonia Street, take a left on Locust Street, take another left on Bridgeway, and then midway through the block would be California Caviar Company. Conversely, they could go the other direction, go up Caledonia, take a right on, I think that's Girard. |
| 02:44:48.76 | Ann Arnot | Thank you. |
| 02:44:48.80 | Joe Burns | No. |
| 02:44:49.88 | Jill Hoffman | Litho, okay, take a ride on litho. walk down Litho Street, take another round of Bridgeway, halfway through the block is California Cabaret Kitchen. IN ORDER TO GO The northern route, you would go past a restaurant that serves beer and sake. If you went the other route, it would take you within a few doors of Smitty's, which has been... mentioned here many times tonight. So the physicality of it plays into my analysis as well. The physicality is that California, this facility for California caviar, midway through bridgeway faces north. The school is on Caledonia Street and faces in the opposite direction south, if I've got my directions correct. So they are facing opposite directions on opposite sides of the block, whatever it is, opposite sides of the block. The only connection is a solid brick wall. So back to my list of things, of facts, as I find them. Okay. The tasting room is separated from the playground with a brick wall. There is no DOORS, THERE ARE NO WINDOWS, THERE'S NOTHING THAT CONNECTS the Caviar Company to the playground that is Sparrow Creek. There's no line of sight. from or direct access from the school to the tasting room. California caviar will not serve alcohol until after school the posted school hours. Now there's been some discussion about what the school hours are. My understanding is from the testimony today school hours are until 4 o'clock. There is an option for parents to pick up their children after that. But the testimony from the school is that at this point, THE OFFICIAL SCHOOL HOURS ARE UNTIL 4 O'CLOCK. THE PRIMARY USE IS A TASTING ROOM, THAT FOOD WILL BE AVAILABLE AT ALL TIMES. THAT IF AT ANY TIME, THIS IS A CONDITION IN THE PERMIT, IF AT ANY TIME THE COMMUNITY There is a problem. The community development director may seek modification of the permit OF APPROVAL. SO AT ANY TIME THAT ANY OF THESE CONCERNS THAT ALL OF YOU HAVE STATED, THAT WE ALL AGREE ARE OF CONCERN TO US AS WELL, IF AT ANY TIME THOSE ACTUALLY COME INTO BEING, THEN I WOULD EXPECT PEOPLE FROM THE SCHOOL TO BRING THAT FORWARD TO THE CITY. THE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR WILL ADDRESS THAT. AND IT MAY MAKE IT ALL THE WAY BACK UP HERE. I think I can speak for my fellow counselors. We would view that very, with great concern if we actually see a complaint that makes it all the way back up here. So I don't expect that. THAT IS A CONDITION OF APPROVAL. THESE CONDITIONS WILL RUN WITH A PERMIT TO ANY FUTURE OWNERS OF THE PROPERTY. So these conditions that we might approve tonight will run to any successor owners of this restaurant. So based on all of these facts, if the facts were different, if this was right next door, as is the hair salon or on the other side, if this was right next door or on that same block, my analysis may be dramatically different. But under the facts and circumstances as they exist and been presented to us tonight, I would be in favor of granting the permit with the conditions that are stated. So that's the way I feel right now, but of course I always listen to my fellow council members. |
| 02:48:28.73 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. |
| 02:48:28.76 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 02:48:28.85 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you, Councilmember Hoffman. Councilmember Withey. |
| 02:48:35.90 | Ray Withey | Well, that was a pretty thorough analysis from Councillor Hoffman there. I'm not going to try and follow that. |
| 02:48:38.06 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Councilor Hoffman there. |
| 02:48:40.81 | Ann Arnot | Bye. |
| 02:48:40.85 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:48:44.86 | Ray Withey | make a couple of points. I There are three lawyers up here. I'm not one. I'm not going to even try and comment on the CUP and the legal issues there. I'm relying on the information provided by the city attorney and the staff. There are a couple of points I'm going to reiterate what Council Member Hoffman said. Sparrow Creek is... An important, in fact, it's a revered institution in Sausalito, I mean, and it's really painful, to be up here, quite frankly, to try and our job is to make a balanced decision looking at all of the facts. California caviar is the type of high end business offering that high end experience that the president of our chamber said that we're actually, Sausalito's trying to encourage. This is a commercial zoning district. And so in that balancing act, one is realizing there is no perfect solution. But I actually got the impression, listening to all the testimony, that The California Caviar Company working through staff has been trying to make some compromises. I mean, restricting the business, starting with the concept of noon to 8 and going from 5 to 9, 4 to 9, so 5 hours worth of business. To ask it to restrict it from 6 to 9 in 3 hours worth of business, there isn't. It's not work, there's no business there. And I'm also... I was a little... worried that I mean, I think every single one of the council members up here feels that they have really, really supported Sausalito to become a family-oriented town. And I feel a little... Hurt actually. to be almost accused that if I was going to vote for this minor use permit, which I'm going to, that somehow I'm making a choice against children. That's just not true. That's just not true. So I was a little hurt by that. I think I'm going to go with Alex Merrill. You know, and basic... Wisdom, you know, there's a brick wall between this. So I'm in favor, with all the conditions, and with the fact that I think the conditions of approval have enough safeguards in them that if this, the, the worst happens as you've sort of asked us to imagine if the worst happens, we've got the means to deal with it. So I intend to vote for this minor use permit and to deny the appeal. |
| 02:52:33.82 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Right, I'll go next. You know, I think Jill did, Council Member Hoffman did do a very excellent job of establishing many, many things that we all agree on and for me this is a very personal and emotional issue. I am so happy to see all of the families here supporting something that they love, supporting Sparrow Creek. I mean, this is amazing and it's wonderful. I have two kids. I have raised them here in Sausalito. They're 10 and 13 right now. But they went to nursery school here. I have spent, I'm a working mom. I was the one rushing into the nursery school right before it closed, you know, apologizing and disheveled and harried. I know about that. I have been there. I am there. I'm still a working mom. And I get how emotional child care decisions are and how much that means to people and keeping our kids safe. I've devoted my volunteer time since I moved to Sausalito 17 years ago to making this town family-friendly. I have volunteered at the nursery school where my kids went, for Willow Creek, where my kids have gone on the planning commission pushing for more family-friendly options supporting measure f um you know and now on the city council so you know i hear in fact i don't think you could have a more family friendly three of us have kids here in sausalito which is is great, and the whole council, I think, is incredibly supportive. So I really don't want to make this a message or a vote on families. This is not that. This is about, is this an appropriate use for this space? That's what this is about. And I really can't agree more with Council Member Hoffman Um, You know, the biggest thing to me, I'm a land use, or was a land use attorney for many years, is the uses here are completely separately facing. Sparrow Creek is oriented on Caledonia and its backyard. The California Caviar Company is completely oriented on the Bridgeway side, and only if you assume a violation of the permit, is there a problem? So that's the only way that you get alcohol up on the DECK OVERLOOKING THE SCHOOL. AND I AGREE, THAT WOULD NOT BE A GOOD THING. BUT THAT'S NOT ALLOWED UNDER THIS PERMIT. SO THE ONLY WAY THAT THESE NEGATIVE IMPACTS OCCUR IS IF THE COMPANY VIOLATES THEIR PERMIT. AND I'M NOT GOING TO ASSUME VIOLATION OF THE PERMIT AS A STARTING POINT. I DON'T THINK THAT'S FAIR. AND I DON'T THINK THAT'S RIGHT. IF THERE IS A VIOLATION OF THE PERMIT, AS COUNCILMEMBER HOFFMAN SAID, AS OUR STAFF SAID, AND OUR CITY ATTORNEY, This permit has excellent conditions to address those negative impacts immediately. And I think we're committed to doing that. And I think the applicant is committed to running her business, at least she's represented to us here tonight. that she's committed to representing and running her business consistent with the permit and in a way that works with the school. And we all want that to happen. Everyone's already said it, but Sparrow Creek is one of the main institutions in town, and we're really lucky to have it here. I think a lot of the other issues have been covered, so I won't go into that. Again, I just like to assume good behavior, and if that's not shown to be the case, we'll address that when the permit's violated. |
| 02:56:37.48 | Joe Burns | Thank you three for being so eloquent and right on with your comments, Jill. Factually, I wish I took notes like that. I agree with what the three have said so far. And this has been an issue for us, I believe, since the moment it happened. And I remember getting a call from a parent saying, oh my gosh, can you believe what's going to happen? They're a parent at Sparrow Creek. They're actually going to serve alcohol next to our school. The emotion in her voice was some of the emotion I saw tonight. It's an apparent emotion. It's an apparent emotion. It's very strong. I get it. Like we've been talking about, we're family friendly, we're parents. We understand that. I think it's a little bit more than that. From that moment on, I knew this was going to be a difficult What I was hoping wasn't going to happen, because Sparrow Creek, revered is a great word. Sparrow Creek is a word that comes up a lot when people talk about the greatness of Sausalito. The kids that have gone through there and gone on to some of the best schools in our county is a long list, and a long list of parents who came here tonight to talk about that success. That is absolutely spectacular. What I didn't want to happen was to use this venue to talk about the location of Sparrow Creek. This has really very little to do with Caviar Kitchen serving alcohol inside their building. It has to do with cigarette butts and throwing up and traffic and things that I really didn't want to hear. And it sounds like you're committed to say it again in a public forum, and I hope you don't. You have a wonderful school. And... It doesn't help to get up and say that Maybe you don't fit in a commercial zone. I think you do. But the message is that you have a lot of issues going on unrelated to what we're hearing about as far as California Kitchen's application. When I heard about this, again from the parent, the very first thing I did was research where schools are in Marin County. Every one of them. And you're right, none are directly adjacent to a restaurant that serves alcohol. I'd say about 95% of them are in a residential zone. |
| 02:59:02.81 | Ann Arnot | Thank you. |
| 02:59:03.47 | Joe Burns | That's where you put schools. I think it's great that Sparrow Creek is in a location that it is. It defines that neighborhood. But to define that neighborhood in such a positive way, you can't say that all the elements around it are impacting you and making it unsafe for the kids. I don't want to hear that. Um, You're closer to sweet ginger in steps and to the other place than you are in steps to caviar kitchen. or Caviar California. I'm getting emotional too. We spend a million and a half bucks on a park that's 30 feet from a place that serves alcohol during the day. I don't see the correlation, but I really don't want to hear that because I don't believe it. I think you guys have a wonderful school, a wonderful location. I would love to hear what some of the things that Jill talked about as far as tightening up with the nuisances that are occurring there, but don't place that on California Kitchen. I just don't think that's the issue. Um, I want Sparrow Creek to be profitable, happy, productive, and continue. Did I say Sparrow Creek? I did not. Willow Creek. I want Sparrow Creek to be everything that should be in that location and thrive with its neighbors. The talk about partnering I think is a great opportunity. I'm really, really hoping that this goes forward in a positive manner for Sparrow Creek. Because I think we have the direction that's very clear that if it doesn't, we will be involved. So thank you. |
| 03:00:43.65 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | I agree with my fellow council members. Thank you all for your very thorough analysis. I actually as an eight-year planning commissioner, I find myself compelled to review the minor use permit findings that we have to make in order to uphold either uphold or deny the appeal. And so I've looked at all nine findings. And the ones that really appear most relevant to the issues I've heard enunciated today are findings. I'm on pages 158 and 159 of the staff report are, um, Finding C, the proposed use together with the applicable conditions will not be detrimental to the public health, safety, or general welfare of the city. And I believe that the conditions of, I think, I believe the fact that the the geographical and logistical separation between the two establishments. The fact that one faces east, the other faces west. They face separate blocks, and there's a brick wall separating them. And I tend to go along with Councilmember Cleveland Knowles' approach that we cannot presume in reviewing an application for a permit that the conditions of that permit will be violated. We have to, in good faith, assume that the conditions of the permit will be upheld. if the conditions are violated there are plenty of there's plenty of recourse something that hasn't been addressed much tonight is the abc license so in addition to this permit the applicant is going to have to finalize its abc permit and there are enforcement provisions under the ABC license as well as by the city of Sausalito. So I believe that the appellant has lots of recourse if there is an abuse of this. But I have visited California Caviar. I visited there when the Chamber of Commerce held an open house there. And I find it lovely, somewhat elite. It's $100, you know, to visit there. I would love any child to be able to rub shoulders with some of their patrons. Thomas Keller, Hubert Keller, Andrew Zimmerman, these preeminent chefs who visit and patronize California caviar, I would love to meet them, let alone have our children have an opportunity to meet them. So I cannot, as I sit here now, find that the proposed use will be detrimental to the public health, safety, or general welfare of the city. The other finding I find most relevant is finding H. The proposed use will not materially adversely affect nearby properties or their permitted uses. And I think that's the one that there's been the most debate about. And again, I believe that the conditions that have been imposed, the restrictions of the hours of service from 12 to 8 to it to 4 to 9 the brick wall the fact that the separation at the back of the sparrow creek property is the property of sparrow creek so sparrow creek wants greater separation it is within sparrow creeks means to create that additional separation These are all factors that have weighed into my evaluation of this appeal. It is so challenging to sit up here and hear so many residents concerned about this project. Sparrow Creek is indeed a revered institution in Sausalito. California caviar is precisely the type of business we'd like to have more of in Sausalito that does not promote downing five shots in a half an hour, but rather promotes sipping of champagne with tasting of caviar. um, It is painful to make a decision that we now know, based on the testimony tonight, will result in protracted litigation. it's very challenging and very disappointing that both parties have not made more of an effort to compromise with one another. So I agree with Council Member Withey, a vote to deny this, sorry, to uphold this, deny the appeal, is not a vote against children. It is a vote in favor of our mixed-use zone in our downtown area. And finally, with respect to whether or not the existing permit lapsed, we've not heard case authority from the appellant. We have heard case authority from the city attorney and we have heard about a prior practice and a prior approach to enforcing the ordinance that's on our books. And so it would be unfair for us to treat California caviar differently from how we've treated other businesses in a similar situation. And so for all of those reasons, although I have a lot of empathy for the school's concerns, I'm not sure. I believe that many of those concerns can be mitigated in logistical ways, and I do not believe we have a legal basis to uphold the appeal. And so with that, I'll entertain a motion. |
| 03:07:16.69 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Here's the |
| 03:07:19.47 | Ray Withey | I move to deny the appeal and uphold the Planning Commission's decision, upholding a zoning administrator decision approving a minor use permit to allow for the serving of beer and wine at the California Caviar Company Tasting Room, located at 1403 Bridgeway, 302 Caledonia Street, number 5, close parenthesis. |
| 03:07:51.65 | Lily | Lily, will you call the roll? Councilmember Withey? Yes. |
| 03:07:55.75 | Ann Arnot | Yes, sir. |
| 03:07:56.36 | Lily | Council member Hoffman. Yes. Council member Cleveland Knowles. Vice mayor Burns. |
| 03:08:01.58 | Joe Burns | Yes. |
| 03:08:02.57 | Lily | Mayor Cox. Yes. That carries 5-0. Thank you. |
| 03:08:06.67 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Is there an appeal or do you want to announce any deadlines? Okay, all right, thanks everybody very much. We're gonna take a five minute recess to allow people to clear the room. |
| 03:08:31.76 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | We will go back to our business items. Item 5A, approve contract to conduct the community service. Thank you. |
| 03:08:43.39 | Ann Arnot | So, bless you. |
| 03:08:47.04 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thursday. you meeting. Thank you. you Thank you. |
| 03:08:55.22 | Ann Arnot | Thank you. |
| 03:08:55.75 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. |
| 03:08:55.96 | Ann Arnot | . |
| 03:08:59.98 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | I've said all that without my mic on. And I'll invite Melanie to the podium. |
| 03:09:07.42 | Unknown | Thank you very much, Mayor and Council. It's my pleasure to introduce Lucia Dupupo from FM3. Her partner, the partner of FM3, Dave Metz, presented the same information to the Finance Committee last Friday. So she's going to go over the material and then answer any questions. And then what we are asking Council to do is if it is your pleasure to approve the resolution that authorizes the city manager to execute a contract with FM3 not to exceed the maximum amount. And then to obviously give us a little further direction on your expectations regarding the scope and the timing. Lucia will explain in more detail the standard, survey is a seven-week process but we've also discussed with them condensing that down to four weeks with no reduction in the statistical validity of the survey itself but allowing us to move a little quicker and for council to get some more feedback prior to the end of the budget process so with that i'll turn it over |
| 03:10:17.93 | Lucia Dupupo | Hello, good evening. So as Melanie mentioned, my name is Lucia Del Pupo. I'm a senior researcher with FM3 Research. Dave Metz is not here tonight. He sends his regrets. He is at two city council meetings in Mountain View and Palo Alto. So we're spread out over the Bay Area tonight. So I'm going to walk through these slides. These kind of introduce our firm for those of you who are not familiar with us. And then also talks into some of the ways our experience in community surveys and then some of the ways we approach doing these types of surveys. So just a brief introduction of our firm. We've been doing this work for nearly 40 years. We have 23 full-time staff and an office in Oakland, as well as one in Los Angeles. And we have done two previous surveys for the city of Sausalito. I believe one was regarding a finance measure and another was regarding the fire district. So we have conducted community surveys basically in every size community, up and down the state, all regions of the state. And we have a lot of experience here in the Bay Area, so we are able to benchmark results in different communities and comparable communities to see how this city stacks up against those. And some of the questions we kind of get into, and this is laid out in detail in the proposal, I think, but Basically identifying what are the major issues, things that residents are most concerned about, their priorities, what they prioritize and what they're satisfied with, and support for any potential policy initiatives. We would definitely have a collaborative process with the city in terms of making sure we're integrating the questions that you most want to have answered. And here is just a little graphic of the cities that we have conducted community surveys in. The size is just for ease of reading, but you see a lot of cities in the Bay, including Oakland, San Francisco, Larkspur, Concord, really kind of spanning the gamut of size and type of demographics. Yeah. And we have also done community survey research in 17 of the 20 largest cities. So again, as I mentioned, just a lot of experience doing this type of research and having a sense of how to compare and how to really deep dive into various issues. And in Marin County, so we have done research for the county itself. We have done research, as I mentioned, for Sausalito as well as Larkspur for several years and San Anselmo and a variety of public agencies here in Marin. So in terms of approaching the survey, so basically we would be interviewing registered voters in the city of Sausalito. And we would be doing this as a way of providing you all with statistically valid results on what your voters and residents prioritize. Obviously, there are certain subsets of voters who show up to city council meetings frequently and voice their opinions. But there's a lot of voters out there who don't do that but might have different opinions. And so this gives you that statistical data to make those budget priorities and other strategic planning ahead and gives you that background. So we would be taking a dual mode approach, which is basically telephone and online interviewing. This has been an approach that we adopted prior to the 2016 election and in full force in communities, basically similar sizes to Sausalito. And we were doing it, And found that it was a very effective way of engaging more voters and getting a higher response rate. It's more inclusive, it gets people to be able to respond to the survey in their preferred manner. And especially in an age where people are answering their phone and screening their calls more and more. We would be shooting for a sample of between 250 and 350 in Sausalito. Something we have seen recently is that those online interviews, bring in a lot more responses than we initially anticipate. If that were to happen, for example, in Petaluma we were targeting 600 voters and I think we got close to 1200 overall full sample phone in online. So it really surges and we would, give those online interviews at no added cost and they would be statistically weighted so that their demographics are representative so it wouldn't be any, it would still be completely statistically valid. And one last item is usually the average interviews are 15 to 20 minutes. So that allows for 40 questions, including demographic questions. And the phone interviews are all done by trained professional interviewers. So this kind of gets into the weeds of it, and I know it's late, so I'll try not to get too detailed. But basically, the way it works is that we send out an email inviting voters who have an email address on the voter registrar to participate. Once we get those responses back, what we do is we look and see if there's any demographic groups that we haven't heard from. Are we missing older voters? Are we missing Latino voters? certain segments of the community and what we do is we target the phone calls to fill in those demographic holes so we have a representative survey sample. |
| 03:15:47.70 | Lucia Dupupo | So the process would basically be a kickoff meeting with the city and we would then prepare an initial draft. We would include tracked questions from previous survey efforts so we can analyze any trends over time. There would be an iterative process of a back and forth and then we would conducting interviewing once the city has signed off on the survey and provide you all with data and we would come back here and be happy to present the results to the city council finance committee whoever the city um thinks is the best group um So as Melanie mentioned, this is typically a seven week process. But it doesn't really have to be. That's mostly because it allows, that seven week schedule allows for a lot of back and forth for the city. And we build in allowing the city to have a full week to review a survey instrument. If there is a desire to condense that to four weeks to meet these budget scheduling, to meet the budget process schedule, that's better. without sacrificing any quality, it just means we need to be a little bit more responsive back and forth. And keep things moving along. So it just basically takes out any really buffer. But again, no issues affecting quality or concerns on our part. We have done that before and are comfortable with condensing the schedule. So with that, are there any questions on what I just walked through? |
| 03:17:15.13 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Any questions? |
| 03:17:15.73 | Lucia Dupupo | Thank you. |
| 03:17:15.78 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thanks. |
| 03:17:15.97 | Lucia Dupupo | Thank you. |
| 03:17:16.00 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. |
| 03:17:16.90 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | I guess I have a question and I'm not sure if it's for you or our city manager or staff, just in terms of whether there's a focus, you know, obviously overall budget priorities and things like that, but I was actually on the receiving end of a telephone call I think in, was it 2013 that you did? It was a great interview. But a lot of the questions were framed around Measure O and specifically designed. And we talked at our kind of first informational hearing on the budget about at least having the Finance Committee and staff look at revenue measures, you know there's been a lot of talk about short-term rentals, there's been a lot of talk about new revenue measures. There's, so is there, so the interview I went through was general and then it got kind of specific about what I would be willing to support as a voter with a half-cent sales tax. Again, I don't know if that's something you can answer or if that's a question for staff. |
| 03:18:18.51 | Lucia Dupupo | I mean, it is doable, it is totally about what the city would like to test and survey, but we can definitely juggle both. |
| 03:18:25.02 | Jill Hoffman | I'm wondering, I think I have the same question actually, kind of a follow-up question, is, you know, will we know the subjects that are going to be surveyed, I guess is what. you know, Because I saw in the materials that there was a lot of the measure O information there. And so I would want to know about that. from on the city council perspective, you know, what are we going on? What are we questioning people about before, you know, we approve the survey? |
| 03:18:51.97 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | That's my concern. |
| 03:18:52.56 | Jill Hoffman | THAT'S WHAT I'M GOING TO DO. |
| 03:18:54.08 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | But if the city council wanted to weigh in on the questions, and our next meeting is two weeks from now, would you still be able to accomplish the survey within the four weeks necessary to stay within our budget process? |
| 03:19:10.25 | Adam Politzer | Can I just step in before we get to that question? I think Council Member Susan Cleveland Knowles' question and statement about the process Was what we talked about the Finance Committee, you know briefly which was those previous surveys Did have a focus to get feedback from the community But they're the you know the initial Efforts of any of these surveys up and down the state Are also trying to get feedback about the quality of service that we're providing and a lot of communities do an annual survey they have the budget to do an annual survey a lot of communities do every other year tied to their budget to again make sure that they're prioritizing their spending based on the needs of of the community so the focus this time around you know we look like we're in an every four-year pattern of getting results and It's nice to work with the same firm so that we can track the information From eight years ago four years ago and where we are today to see the level of satisfaction And then again get the feedback as it relates to this budget We all know in advance we had this budget discussion at the last council meeting where there's already concerns that we have more costs than we have revenues to offset it. There was questions about can we look at revenue measures. You know, not specific are we going to ask if you want to be tax community, but are there revenue sources or streams that the community would like to hear. Waiting between now and May 1st, our next council meeting, to get feedback from the council probably would create a significant delay in terms of moving forward. So, you know, one of the options is through the finance committee, because we're meeting right now this coming Friday and next Friday, is to use the finance committee as a working group to look at examples of surveys that FM3 does up and down the state on budgets and then if there are specific questions that the council wants to provide tonight you know obviously we wish that we were having this conversation at 7 50 not at 10. But it's still important that we get the feedback tonight if there's specific information subjects or topics that you would like us to explore give that direction to staff let the finance committee work on this and then obviously try to to launch the survey sooner than later if we wait to may to come back to council and then award the contract you know we're at the end of may by the time we're starting to get the results and then we're into june to use those as as tools so i don't think it would be the best use Last comment, it is important that i underscore that we aren't we are purposely not looking to bring forward consolidation efforts or a tax initiative we really want to look at our resources our budget and put questions out to the community that supports the tough decisions that the council's going to need to make in the later part of may in the beginning of june related to the budget |
| 03:22:32.97 | Jill Hoffman | So if I can weigh in on that then. Yeah, you can ask a question, then we'll weigh in after. Okay. So when would the city council get a list of the proposed questions for the survey? I mean, it was the city council as a whole ever get it or would that just go through the finance committee? Because because I'm I would I'm against that. I mean, I'm absolutely against that because the the power of The way you frame the questions and the power of the responses and how you're couching the questions. I mean, you can just see it. So again, this is not the comment. |
| 03:23:01.39 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Okay, sorry. |
| 03:23:01.40 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, sorry. the opportunity |
| 03:23:02.97 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | questions. Are there any further questions? Anybody else have a problem with that? All right, is there any public comment on this matter? Please. |
| 03:23:16.62 | Alice Merrill | Okay, I just noticed a few things. 250 to 300 people, that's all in the whole town that will be asked these questions. One person. Not very many. Okay. If you're looking for emails from registered voters, I registered a few years ago. I will not have had an email on there, so there will be a lot of people who don't have emails. And if you're going to call me, you need to let me know very quickly who you are, because I will hang up on you if it sounds like you're some kind of a... of a, what are those? Telemarketer. Yeah, telemarketer. So, or a political thing, you know, as in asking for money from the Democratic Convention, whatever. So those are my three comments. Thank you. Thank you, Alice. |
| 03:23:53.29 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Telemarketer. |
| 03:24:05.97 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | AND I'M GOING TO RECOGNIZE COUNCIL MEMBER HOFFMAN. you |
| 03:24:12.95 | Jill Hoffman | Thanks. So I don't have any problem with how are we doing as a city. How do you like the parks and rec? Those are fine. But when you start veering off into policy things, especially how you frame the question almost begs the answer. And so I want to, see that I think we need to see that as a city council before that goes out to the I understand. I don't want to see it. |
| 03:24:43.73 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | I understand. |
| 03:24:44.74 | Ray Withey | Thank you. |
| 03:24:44.76 | Jill Hoffman | Bye. |
| 03:24:44.83 | Ann Arnot | Thank you. |
| 03:24:44.90 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 03:24:44.95 | Ray Withey | Thank you. |
| 03:24:45.03 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | I... |
| 03:24:46.35 | Jill Hoffman | I'm going to let Rick. |
| 03:24:46.97 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | go next. |
| 03:24:47.60 | Ray Withey | You know, I just have to respectfully disagree with that. The... The whole purpose of doing this is to actually hire professionals who actually know how to craft questions. We've been through this before, where the city council started weighing in on questions, politicized the whole thing, and quite frankly, we should never have spent the money doing it. So this isn't a political process. This is data gathering through a survey so that we can then start dealing with the politics. I understand what you're saying, Jill, about the question. You can solicit an answer by the construction of the question. These guys are the professionals who know how not to do that. So that we, you know. I agree with you about the policy aspects though, because if it got very, you know, you got into a very you know, badly worded question about a general policy issue, who knows what you would get. But these guys... |
| 03:25:59.26 | Joe Burns | the |
| 03:25:59.43 | Ray Withey | That's not what they do for a job. |
| 03:25:59.89 | Joe Burns | That's all. |
| 03:26:03.43 | Joe Burns | I was going to say the same thing. And really going back to what the city manager said at the beginning, that we're really data in time, I would hate for us to reinvent a camel of questions and then try to compare those to the last four years or last eight years. I think the information would be useless. So I was really hoping to avoid having to see any questions or approve any process on the actual survey. |
| 03:26:28.36 | Jill Hoffman | THE CITY IS GOING TO START THINKING ABOUT PROPOSING ANOTHER HALF CENT SALES TAX OR SOME OTHER INITIATIVE. I THINK I JUST RESPOND TO THESE COMMENTS. SO I SEE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. EXCEPT FOR I WANT TO KNOW IF THE CITY IS GOING TO START THINKING ABOUT PROPOSING ANOTHER HALF CENT SALES TAX OR SOME OTHER INITIATIVE. RIGHT? SO THIS, THE PROPOSAL THAT WAS GIVEN TO US AND THE EXAMPLE IS ALL TALKING measure out what became measure of the example is from 2012 as an example |
| 03:26:49.85 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Right. of the type of work they provide. |
| 03:26:52.25 | Jill Hoffman | That's exactly right, and that's exactly what I don't want to have happen. |
| 03:26:54.83 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | BUT, THE FAMILY IS |
| 03:26:55.02 | Jill Hoffman | because you know let me finish. So because I'm looking through this when I was looking through this okay you can tell |
| 03:26:55.07 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | because, hold on, let me just. |
| 03:27:01.70 | Jill Hoffman | that the responses drove how the... the ballot measure was written right so when you go through this and you see okay well i see that the most people respond to 49 like the idea of out-of-towners so that was like the top of the the ballot measure um and you know street repairs got it so that got the highest you know response i of people that like that you know so that became part and that was at the top of the ballot measure so these responses are driving the ballot measure if we're going down that direction I want to know that as a city council and I want to have input on how those questions are asked and that's my point. |
| 03:27:40.61 | Ray Withey | Yeah, I think that's a very fair point. I think it's important. I remember that 2013. It was specifically designed to test Measure O. That was its purpose. That was its purpose, right? Just like, you know, TAM's just done a survey to test the transportation sales tax for November. Or, you know, everybody does this when you're thinking of a ballot measure. |
| 03:27:48.24 | Jill Hoffman | It was specifically. |
| 03:27:49.96 | Unknown | designed |
| 03:28:09.02 | Ray Withey | but I don't think that's where the city staff is at. I mean, I don't think We've, Finance Committee and certainly this group has never contemplated a measure, and this is the reason to do this. This is part of our strategic plan. It says we should be doing this every year. |
| 03:28:30.53 | Jill Hoffman | Is there a way then on consent? So I'm going to just, so not everybody has even commented yet. |
| 03:28:34.85 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Not everybody has even commented yet. I'm sorry, go ahead. So I want to give Councilmember Cleveland an opportunity, and then we can have more of a dialogue. |
| 03:28:42.97 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Okay. I mean, it's fine. You know, the question, my question was meant, is this just a general update? And if that's the case, then that's fine. I do feel like this would have been that it's also a little bit of a missed opportunity. There are big questions being debated in the general plan context. There's this issue of short-term rentals that we had a task force about and was just kind of left and put off to the general plan, you know, that I think would benefit from well run questioning as opposed to, you know, a doodle poll that we put up on Nextdoor. I think if it's just going to be kept to general, how are we doing, what's going on, what are our budget priorities, then I don't need to see questions and we don't need to have any further discussion about it. If we did want to try to see what types of new revenue measures might float with the public or test any other issues that are of significance, then I think it's worth more thought and more questions. So that's my... |
| 03:29:50.49 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | So I actually totally agree with that. And It was mentioned in the finance committee meeting, not by me, that this should have started at least eight weeks ago. So we should not be getting this now because getting it now... um, removes the opportunity for us to do exactly what Councilmember Hoffman is asking, which is for this council to consider suggest topics and then weigh in on the manner in which the questions are framed. I'm not sure the council should weigh in on the manner the questions are framed, but I do think the council should weigh in on topics. And I do think that for us to say tonight, well, you know, we want you to consider the voters, you know, receptiveness to a marijuana dispensary, which could generate revenue. We want you to consider. the voters' receptiveness to short-term rentals, which could generate revenue. Those kinds of questions that we should be asking as we are facing a budget in which our lines of revenues and expenses are crossing would be very valuable. But I don't think we have, I'm not sanguine about a four-week process, and I'm not sanguine about a four week process and I'm not sanguine about you know 200 out of 7,000 voters so Maybe we undertake this process not as a part of this budget, but as a part of our six-year budget, which we're also embarking upon. Maybe we undertake this process as a part of our general plan. Some of the issues will weigh in our general plan. But I'm not sure pursuing it in the manner it's presented to us this evening is going to be as productive as we would hope. |
| 03:31:53.91 | Adam Politzer | Mayor Cox, can I respond to some of your comments? |
| 03:31:55.14 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Yeah. Sure. |
| 03:32:00.08 | Adam Politzer | So I think the agenda setting committee originally wondered why this was a business item. I think that you know, the original intent as articulated by Council member Cleveland knows was that if this was just a general services Survey of how we're doing related to the budget. then absolutely that should have been consent. And that was the intent and that still is the original intent. but i think it was the last budget discussion where there was a lot of other discussion on other things outside of what would be in the survey that i wanted the council to at least have the conversation if in fact it should be broader than what the initial intent is to be and so that's why it's a business item that's why we wanted you to have discussions while we brought fm3 to the committee to talk about the detail. Again, trying to keep it narrow, but giving the council the option. I think there's very valid points about what the opportunity could be. But I would respond that it would be premature to talk about the general plan based on where we are. We're starting the visioning process. So a year from now, a a year and a half from now we probably have some real questions that we want to test and to bring to the council so having the information related to the budget as we move forward in the general plan or other revenue ideas like marijuana dispensaries or short-term rentals or any other leakage of sales tax going to other communities. Those are things that we could test at a later date. And the reason why we would want to do this on a more regular basis than every four years, especially when we have that information. a conversation that I've had with Council member with he is we know and it came from after the finance committee meeting We know in two years at this moment the lines look like they're going to cross based on the economy and our spending pattern. But we have two years to prepare for that. So again, as we work through this budget, getting information from our public on how we're doing service-wise and then what's important to our community in terms of where we spend our dollars will help us as we start planning and continuing that dialogue and discussion over the next year and a half to make sure that we don't get to a point where the lines cross and that we're able to adjust to it. So I wanted to clarify that it wasn't our intention to do anything other than test where we are providing service and how it relates to the budget so we can guide the council on that. And I think what I'm hearing hearing feedback on there is an opportunity to really ask and test some questions but it'd be premature Thank you. |
| 03:34:42.29 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | So is staff's proposal to hire FM3 to do a sort of state of the city type of survey and to not explore extrinsic issues at this time? |
| 03:34:59.50 | Adam Politzer | That's what I'd propose based on the feedback that we've heard, you know, again, tying it to the level of service and the importance. And as we heard from the council, relying on FM3, who has done this, you know, on a regular basis with multiple cities at a time. We want to focus on budget and getting feedback on where to prioritize our dollars. |
| 03:35:22.26 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | And that's very valid because the finance committee is going to have to confront in the next, and then the city council, in the next two months exactly how to prioritize scarce resources and so it could be helpful. |
| 03:35:36.07 | Adam Politzer | you |
| 03:35:36.69 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. |
| 03:35:36.73 | Adam Politzer | Can I just comment on the, we're not calling 300 or 200 people and then stop calling. They're calling everybody. They stop calling at a certain point in time |
| 03:35:36.76 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Can I just comment Yeah. |
| 03:35:38.18 | Rick Warren | Thank you. |
| 03:35:47.46 | Adam Politzer | when they've exhausted that phone number or that email or, you know, and then again, we'll put it out in the currents with a link to how to participate. I mean, we'll reach out in all the different ways that we can through Abbott Chambers and our social media links. So we won't limit it to just FM3. They'll be the drivers, and the information will all go to them, but we'll publicize this in all ways we can to get maximum participation. And as you heard earlier, Petaluma had a target of 600 and had 1,200 respondents. |
| 03:36:20.65 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Well, and our Southern Marin Fire posted a survey this weekend and they have 100 responses so far. to their fire preparedness survey. I think that's a great idea. All right, so comments now? |
| 03:36:37.98 | Ray Withey | Thank you. Could I make one more comment about their |
| 03:36:39.43 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | one more. |
| 03:36:43.21 | Ray Withey | The thing I've learned over the many years of doing this type of stuff is that you're initially shocked that the numbers are so low, 250 to 350. But I can guarantee that if these guys are saying that gives you a 5.2 to 6.4 percent, whatever the numbers were, between a 5 and 6 percent error rate, That's good enough for what we're trying to do. And sometimes surveys that cover huge populations can only be 2,000, 3,000 in number, knowing that the error might be 9% or something. So if we're willing to accept an error rate of 5% to 6%, which I think we should, because I think that's a good compromise about what you can afford, |
| 03:37:07.33 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:37:30.35 | Ray Withey | Those numbers don't worry me at all. I mean, they're baked in probably statistically fairly well. I mean, we could ask the consultant, but I think so. |
| 03:37:42.65 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | And so I would be inclined to follow the city staff's recommendation, but I would like to hear from city staff, not necessarily tonight, but in the near future, when city staff thinks we should embark upon survey research to explore revenue opportunities and other issues perhaps raised through the visioning process of the general plan. |
| 03:38:14.59 | Joe Burns | Thank you. |
| 03:38:14.61 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Do we need a motion? |
| 03:38:15.00 | Joe Burns | I agree. |
| 03:38:15.57 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. |
| 03:38:16.38 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Okay. |
| 03:38:17.38 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. |
| 03:38:17.44 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | I think. |
| 03:38:17.70 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | No, no. |
| 03:38:18.24 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 03:38:18.41 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. |
| 03:38:18.44 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Sometimes. Okay. Okay. So do you need a motion or is direction adequate? |
| 03:38:19.91 | Adam Politzer | Okay. |
| 03:38:19.92 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 03:38:19.98 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. |
| 03:38:20.08 | Joe Burns | Bye. |
| 03:38:20.09 | Adam Politzer | Thank you. THE END OF THE END OF THE Thank you. |
| 03:38:21.16 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Go to any of that. |
| 03:38:21.61 | Adam Politzer | a motion. |
| 03:38:24.41 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:38:24.70 | Adam Politzer | I think there's a motion to get forward |
| 03:38:29.19 | Unknown | There is a resolution in your packet and we are requesting that you adopt that resolution to approve the contract with FM3 to conduct community survey not to exceed $27,850. |
| 03:38:41.71 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | So moved. With the direction to staff as articulated by Mayor Cox. |
| 03:38:43.13 | Unknown | And- |
| 03:38:47.28 | Ray Withey | SECOND. |
| 03:38:48.34 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | All in favor. |
| 03:38:48.97 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Aye. That motion carries 5-0. Thank you. Thank you. And thank you again, Lucia, for your patience with our prior matters this evening. We have more items, if you want. |
| 03:38:49.29 | Ray Withey | Hi. |
| 03:38:50.33 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. |
| 03:39:00.44 | Ann Arnot | Thank you. EVENING. Thank you. Thank you. |
| 03:39:02.47 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. |
| 03:39:02.48 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. |
| 03:39:02.53 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. |
| 03:39:02.55 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. |
| 03:39:02.65 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Bye. |
| 03:39:02.74 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | I know we're a dynamic group up here. |
| 03:39:02.77 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | I did just- I did just want to assure Alice Merrill that when the telephone call was received, they immediately identified themselves because I hang up really quickly. And it was immediately clear that it was Sausalito focused. And that kind of interested me, you know, not some national or political thing. So it was very quick and immediate. And the person was great. |
| 03:39:24.98 | Joe Burns | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 03:39:25.06 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Yes. |
| 03:39:25.47 | Joe Burns | Thank you. |
| 03:39:26.75 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | What? |
| 03:39:27.59 | Joe Burns | You get a cell phone call, you're out of business, and you're just a sauce little. Damn it. What are you doing? Oh, damn. All right. |
| 03:39:32.98 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you very much. Item 5B has been continued to our May 1 meeting. So I'll move on to item 7, City Manager reports, Council Member reports, City Council appointments, other Council business. Is there any public comment on items 7B through 7F? |
| 03:39:33.36 | Ann Arnot | Thank you. |
| 03:39:33.42 | Joe Burns | Thank you. |
| 03:39:33.53 | Ann Arnot | Bye. |
| 03:39:52.55 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Seeing none. I'll turn it over to our city manager. to see if he has anything to report upon. |
| 03:40:00.04 | Adam Politzer | I have nothing new to report on other than what I mentioned earlier that we have a Finance Committee meeting this Friday and then the following Friday 20th and And one thing that was important because the council asked us to do this is that we are having the finance committee meetings in this room. and we're videotaping them. So they are web streamed. You can go back and watch them. What was important and interesting in the last meeting is each of the department heads came up and spoke on the operation of their department, which serves as a preview to their video. So if you want to sit through two and a half hours of the finance committee and listen to each of the department heads talk about the services that they provide to the community and and any questions that they received from the council, you can do that. but we will also be working on the video productions as well as we move forward. |
| 03:40:57.15 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | So I'm glad my threat to show up on Friday's resulted in the videotaping of the meetings |
| 03:41:02.43 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | It was a little awkward because Ray and I were sitting up here, Joe was out in the audience. It was a little awkward, but anything for transparency. All right, next on our, thank you, Adam. Next on our agenda is council member committee reports. Any committee reports? |
| 03:41:23.03 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | I have a quick one. There was a sustainability commission meeting last Thursday. They had a presentation from county staff, Kellen Damon, or Daman, from the Marin County Community Development Agency on different efforts that the county is doing on energy efficiency and building codes. And it's really interesting. I can forward that presentation andy can to anyone that's interested the other thing uh is that um terry lang came to talk about earth day 94965 which is a collaboration between the women's club and other local organizations to have a Sausalito-focused Earth Day event this coming Saturday. Sunday. Sunday, sorry. Yeah, I'll be there. Yeah, so they've got routes, I think a couple of four or five different routes that you can walk, you can sign up for, and then there'll be pizza, pizza, at the Bay Model and a lot of different organizations, including the Sustainability Commission, will be tabling there. So it sounds like a great event. What time does that kick off? The walking, I think 9.30. 30 and then the meeting at the bay model I think is supposed to be about noon. |
| 03:42:47.88 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. And it starts at 9.30 at the Bay Model? |
| 03:42:50.62 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | No. So there's. If you go to, I think it's earthday94965, either.com or.org, there is five different routes to the Bay Model. So you will start. |
| 03:42:55.07 | Jill Hoffman | You didn't know there were gonna be questions. |
| 03:43:05.25 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | at your preferred place. One is in Marin City, the other starts in Marin City, the other four start in Sausalito, and then you end up at the Bay Model. So I think you just meet your group And if you sign up ahead of time, I think that's appreciated, but I'm sure they won't turn away volunteers. But I think it'll be a good, good thing. |
| 03:43:29.08 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | You and I, Susan attended the Bay Model Fire Preparation event that was very well attended by Sausalito residents. Many questions asked. Members of the Disaster Preparedness Committee were there. Members of our Fire Department, the National Park Service, and the Police Department were there. as well as Chris Gallagher on behalf of the Bay Model and Jeff Shrash on behalf of the Chamber of Commerce. So it was very well attended and a very worthy presentation and lots of information is available on the City of Sausalito website that's available to everyone. There is a city-wide yard sale this Saturday. And as Adam mentioned, we've heard tonight many of the things we discussed at the Finance Committee our last finance committee meeting and we'll have two more for the next two Thank you. Saturdays. |
| 03:44:30.52 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | So, and I'm sorry, on the Sustainability Commission, I also just wanted to mention that Cassie Birdshaw is moving from Sausalito, which is really too bad. So she's resigning from these, or probably already has resigned from the Sustainability Commission. So I noted that we had interviewed one very well-qualified applicant. Author. So they were interested in that. |
| 03:44:52.52 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | author. |
| 03:44:57.25 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Okay, so Lily, can you just follow through on that and bring back to us the applicant that we weren't able to appoint? I'll do that in addition to any other applications. Yeah, any other applicants. |
| 03:45:08.92 | Unknown | As well as any other application. |
| 03:45:12.79 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Any other council member reports? |
| 03:45:14.54 | Joe Burns | Yeah, MTA, the Marin Telecommunications Agency, has officially hired their new executive director. It is a woman named Jean Bonander, who you might remember being city manager of both Larkspur and San Anselmo, most recently working with Streetlight Association. So it's a great asset for the MTA, and it was a fun process, and a little party for the outgoing executive director who's Barbara Thornton who was a wonderful person as well. So that's an MTA update. |
| 03:45:48.23 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Okay, thanks. Any other City Council member updates? No. Then we'll move on to 7D, appointments to boards and commissions and committees. We have two staff reports and so I move that we accept the resignation of PBAC committee member Pigman. with many thanks for her long years of service and that we also accept the resignation of chamber-nominated representative Tom Gangitano and appoint Graham Driver to be the chamber-nominated representative position. |
| 03:46:18.97 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Second. |
| 03:46:19.39 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. All in favor? Aye. That motion carries five zero. |
| 03:46:20.58 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Bye. |
| 03:46:23.78 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | For future agenda items, I know Susan has one, I'd also like to add to consideration on our list the manner in which we review encroachment permits as recommended by David Sudo. |
| 03:46:40.30 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Great, and so as you probably read in the newspapers, San Francisco has recently been inundated by a new form of transportation, a motorized scooter share program. Similar to bike share programs, you can locate a motorized scooter with an app and pay a couple dollars to ride it to your destination where you leave it. Um, The issue is that that can cause problems with the right-of-way if the scooters are not properly parked. So these are the stand-up kind that look like Razor scooters, but they're motorized electric and can travel about 15 to 20 miles an hour. So anyway, it seems highly likely and maybe is already happening that those would find their way across the Golden Gate Bridge and down into Sausalito where, as we've discussed many times, we already have a lot of congestion. So I just, Mayor Cox had told me that the legislative committee is already considering some amendments to our sidewalk ordinances. I have worked extensively on this issue with the city. I'd be happy to lend any assistance. But I do think it's something we should proactively address so that our police department or anyone else has the enforcement tools that they need to make sure these don't block the sidewalk, create accessibility issues, or other side impacts of the business model. So if there's any interest in that, I think it would be helpful. And, you know, I don't know to the extent the battery life lasts long enough to travel from San Francisco to here. |
| 03:48:29.89 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | I'm sorry. |
| 03:48:29.91 | Ann Arnot | WE'RE HERE. |
| 03:48:30.65 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | They're here. |
| 03:48:32.13 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | Thank you. Thank you. THE END OF THE END OF THE Thank you. |
| 03:48:32.79 | Ann Arnot | out there. |
| 03:48:33.75 | Susan Cleveland-Knowles | So we will add that to the list for the agenda setting committee to consider. If there are no other reports, I'm actually going to adjourn our meeting this evening in honor of, our former First Lady Barbara Bush, who passed away late today, who was an advocate of the American family and also an advocate for literacy around our country, among many other notable accomplishments. And with that, we're adjourned. |
| 03:48:46.88 | Ann Arnot | Thank you. |
| 03:48:47.00 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:48:47.03 | Ann Arnot | Thank you. |
| 03:48:47.05 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:49:00.84 | Ann Arnot | Thank you. |
| 03:49:00.97 | Unknown | Okay. |