| Time | Speaker | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:04.89 | Heidi Scoble | the audio is up. video is up we'll admit our participant Good evening Mayor Hoffman and council members. This meeting is being held pursuant to section three of executive order N-29-20 issued by Governor Newsom on March 17th, 2020. And all members are joining this meeting telephonically through Zoom and is broadcast live. |
| 00:00:20.32 | Jill Hoffman | And I'll see you next time. and is broadcast live on We lost part of your audio just then. |
| 00:00:29.02 | Heidi Scoble | Apologies, Madam Mayor, I will start again. Good evening, Mayor Hoffman and council members. This meeting is being held pursuant to Section 3 of Executive Order N-29-20 issued by Governor Newsom on March 17, 2020. And all members are joining this meeting telephonically through Zoom and is broadcast live on the city's website and on cable TV channel 27. |
| 00:00:52.95 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you very much, Madam Clerk. I'm now calling the meeting to order. Welcome to the Tuesday, June 8, 2021 regular city council meeting. for the Sausalio City Council. We will begin tonight with closed session starting at 6 p.m. and we will come back for open session at 7. Madam Clerk, could you please call the roll? |
| 00:01:11.55 | Heidi Scoble | Councilmember Sobieski. here. Council Member Blawsteen. |
| 00:01:15.94 | Jill Hoffman | Madam Clerk, we are not hearing your audio. I'm hearing her audio. Thank you. |
| 00:01:19.98 | Melissa Blaustein | Thank you. |
| 00:01:20.00 | Jill Hoffman | I'm hearing fine. |
| 00:01:20.05 | Janelle Kellman | Thank you. |
| 00:01:20.20 | Melissa Blaustein | here. |
| 00:01:20.25 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 00:01:20.27 | Melissa Blaustein | THE END OF |
| 00:01:20.46 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 00:01:20.49 | Melissa Blaustein | Thank you. |
| 00:01:20.63 | Janelle Kellman | I'm fine. Thank you. |
| 00:01:21.81 | Jill Hoffman | Really? |
| 00:01:22.03 | Janelle Kellman | . |
| 00:01:22.08 | Jill Hoffman | you I'm not hearing it. The mysteries of Zoom. |
| 00:01:27.85 | Janelle Kellman | We turned off the internet |
| 00:01:28.57 | Ian Sobieski | Thank you. |
| 00:01:29.03 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 00:01:29.05 | Janelle Kellman | Thank you. |
| 00:01:29.97 | Jill Hoffman | and distribution. |
| 00:01:30.53 | Janelle Kellman | Thank you. |
| 00:01:31.39 | Ian Sobieski | The revivers do hear us, but not |
| 00:01:33.33 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, so I'll tell you what, while if you guys are hearing her, Madam Clerk, go ahead and take the roll. Someone signal me when it's time for me to sit here, |
| 00:01:43.93 | Heidi Scoble | to. |
| 00:01:44.25 | Ian Sobieski | Thank you. |
| 00:01:45.69 | Heidi Scoble | Council member Cleveland Knowles. here. |
| 00:01:48.33 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 00:01:49.43 | Heidi Scoble | Vice Mayor Kilman. |
| 00:01:51.12 | Jill Hoffman | Here. |
| 00:01:52.30 | Heidi Scoble | Mayor Hoffman. |
| 00:01:53.60 | Jill Hoffman | Here, I'm hearing that. Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:01:55.73 | Heidi Scoble | I don't know. |
| 00:01:55.76 | Jill Hoffman | I don't know. |
| 00:01:56.55 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. All members are present and we have a quorum. |
| 00:01:59.12 | Jill Hoffman | Very good. Thank you very much. We will be hearing item D one in closed session. That item is conference with legal counsel, existing litigation pursuant to California government code 54956.1. sorry, 0.9 D1. |
| 00:02:14.73 | Unknown | WELL, I'M GOING TO BE |
| 00:02:14.79 | Ian Sobieski | Yeah. |
| 00:02:14.81 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:02:16.72 | Jill Hoffman | Sausalito Marin County chapter of the California homeless union versus city of Sausalito. USDC number Um, three. TAC 321, TAC CV, TAC 01143, TAC LB. and at this time I will open up public comment on this closed session item. |
| 00:02:40.16 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. Madam Mayor, would you like me to read into the record how public comment can be taken? Sure. Video or audio public comment participation is limited to three minutes per speaker. If you'd like to make a comment, please raise your hand in the Zoom function, and you'll be called upon when it's your time to speak. To raise your hand from a phone, press star nine. Each speaker will be notified when the time has last. Madam Mayor does not appear as though we have any hands raised at this time. |
| 00:03:09.72 | Jill Hoffman | Very good. Then I will close public comment and we will adjourn to closed session. So thanks very much. We'll be back at 7 o'clock. To resume our regular city council meeting. Thanks very much. |
| 00:03:18.19 | Wendy Richards | All right. |
| 00:03:29.28 | Unknown | Composer. An explosion, that's what he was just. And Joe Henderson blows it shows up with music. Here's a good board. Tell you where to go when you need to be so too ridiculous That you get better as you let him get in. Because there's nothing like jazz that has what does it as a journalist. |
| 00:03:51.64 | Ian Sobieski | Yeah. |
| 00:03:51.93 | Unknown | Well, the sound picks you up and turns you around like a kicker. Here, dude. |
| 00:04:23.31 | Unknown | you . Bye. |
| 00:04:32.66 | Unknown | . you you Bye. |
| 00:04:41.91 | Unknown | . |
| 00:04:48.31 | Unknown | . Bye. you Bye. Thank you. you Thank you. |
| 00:05:00.98 | Unknown | Bye. . . . . Bye. . |
| 00:05:12.64 | Ian Sobieski | All right. |
| 00:05:13.94 | Unknown | . . . |
| 00:05:22.53 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 00:05:24.59 | Unknown | . . . Bye. . Bye. Bye. Bye. . . . Bye. . Bye. Oh, . . . Bye. Bye. Thank you. |
| 00:06:14.32 | Unknown | Bye. . Bye. you |
| 00:06:59.00 | Unknown | you Thank you. . |
| 00:07:26.00 | Heidi Scoble | Okay, our audio is live and our streaming is live. And we're admitting 24 participants. |
| 00:07:39.59 | Heidi Scoble | Madam Mayor, all of the participants are in the meeting and you may Begin. |
| 00:07:45.48 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. Good evening and welcome to the open session of our city council meeting, our regular city council meeting for June 8 of 2021. We took the role previously, our closed session portion and all members are present and accounted for. Um, And so do I have a motion for approval of the agenda for tonight? |
| 00:08:05.36 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Mayor, I'd be happy to approve the agenda. I was wondering because we have so many special presentations that perhaps we could move committee reports to the end of our agenda and maybe even general public comments since we've gotten so much correspondence on our budget I would love to be at least fresh and intelligent during that. I don't know how other council members feel, but perhaps we could put those under item eight tonight or before item eight. THE FAMILY. Anyway, just an idea. |
| 00:08:36.42 | Jill Hoffman | Anyway. Well, let's say anybody have an objection to that. I think that's a fine idea. It's a great idea. |
| 00:08:41.92 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | I got it. Thank you. |
| 00:08:42.82 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:08:42.84 | Jill Hoffman | Yeah. |
| 00:08:42.87 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 00:08:43.26 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | . |
| 00:08:44.59 | Jill Hoffman | So we're going to move We're gonna move committee reports and public comment on matters not on the agenda. Okay. |
| 00:08:54.65 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | I have a suggestion. So with that amended, I'd make that motion with that amendment to move that to |
| 00:08:56.05 | Jill Hoffman | Yeah. |
| 00:09:01.97 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | just before our regular end date. So in between seven and eight. |
| 00:09:08.35 | Jill Hoffman | Okay. Okay, gotcha. So, like, I don't know, in between seven and eight. Gotcha. |
| 00:09:14.19 | Vicki Nichols | you |
| 00:09:17.24 | Jill Hoffman | THE FAMILY. and I have no objection to that. We'll consider that as a motion. Does anyone want to second that motion? second. Okay, Madam Clerk, could you please take the roll? |
| 00:09:33.07 | Heidi Scoble | Councilmember Sobieski? Yes. |
| 00:09:34.84 | Ian Sobieski | Thank you. |
| 00:09:35.75 | Heidi Scoble | Council member Blazdein. Yes. Council member Cleveland Knowles. Yes. Vice Mayor Kilman. Yes. Mayor Hoffman. Thank you. |
| 00:09:46.32 | Jill Hoffman | Yes, and so to recap what we did with our agenda, we're moving matters not on the agenda to after item seven, And we're also moving committee reports on our agenda to that same portion after item seven. So we'll do public comment of matters not in the agenda first, and then we'll do committee reports second, and then we'll move into Um, item 8 on our agenda. So thank you for that suggestion and With that, we'll move on to our first Our first item, which is special presentations of mayor's announcements. So I have several announcements tonight. Our first announcement is to thank Marsha Raines, our interim city manager who is with us for Almost. six months. And so that was an amazing effort and turnover by her to be with us as we move through our first or the first quarter or not the first quarter of the year. and also through our city manager search and through the preparation of our budget so that was just a tremendous and amazing effort by Marcia Raines who had significant prior city manager experience that we were we're very lucky to avail ourselves of. through this process. I'm just gonna open up for quick comments from our council members, because we all work so hard and closely with her. So does anybody want to, do a quick comment on Marcia I didn't warn anybody, so. |
| 00:11:16.62 | Ian Sobieski | Well, I wanted to say thank you, Marcia. You stepped in and helped everything and especially me. Thanks a lot for your perspective and wisdom and all the time you took. helping me understand what was going on. So thank you and best wishes and what you're doing next. |
| 00:11:35.32 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Thank you. |
| 00:11:36.07 | Jill Hoffman | Anybody else? Go ahead. |
| 00:11:39.16 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | about Oh, I'll add on to that and express my gratitude to Marcia. I think one of the things that I really admired about her was her professionalism and her commitment to our staff and she was a huge advocate for our department heads and everyone throughout the organization. And that really showed in her everyday work and, um, in her conversations and just her commitment. That was something that really shone through to me, and I think she's a consummate professional, and I hope that we'll have the pleasure of working with her in some capacity again. |
| 00:12:16.78 | Jill Hoffman | Great, anybody else wanna chime in? Very good. |
| 00:12:19.53 | Melissa Blaustein | Thank you. |
| 00:12:19.85 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 00:12:19.97 | Melissa Blaustein | it. |
| 00:12:20.59 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 00:12:20.61 | Melissa Blaustein | Yeah, go ahead. I can tell Vice Mayor Kallman wants to close it out. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna get that there. I'll do that back. I'm gonna say, I can't not say something about Marsha, because wow, I mean, Marsha, you took all of my calls when I didn't understand The minute details of city processes coming into the role as a new council member really a challenge for you when we have three new council members who are serving as interim city manager, You always called us back. You always showed up. You always connected with the staff and with the community. I can't tell you how many people in the community told me how much they enjoyed working with you and interacting with you and your professionalism. So you will certainly be missed not only by the staff in the building and the council, but I know as well by the. residents and I feel really fortunate that you were sort of the person that shepherded our three new people into into this role so thank you so much you will be deeply missed |
| 00:13:19.57 | Janelle Kellman | And I'll just follow up by saying, I think we were extremely well served as a community. to have someone with such integrity leadership skills and eye to operational efficiency and mentoring for I think all of us as well as staff and we couldn't have had a better person at the helm for the transition in fact I think she may actually be on vacation already but I'm sure she'll at some point hear these comments so I think I echo everybody just to say it was a huge benefit and she put us in a really good position as we embark on our next chapter here with our new city manager. So a huge thank you to Marsha Raines. |
| 00:13:57.98 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you, thanks to everybody on the city council to you through this process. And so moving on, I'm excited to enter Sausalio 2.0 And welcome our new city manager, Chris Zapata. He's been with us two days. He and I have already had two two-hour meetings. And I think he's at at least a two hour meeting with everybody, all the other remaining city council members. So we're very, very excited to have him on board. We're very excited to start moving forward and and with our journey with city council. So Chris, I know you want to say something later, but would you like to say anything right now. |
| 00:14:38.00 | Jill Hoffman | I'm not seeing. Yes, yes. Chris might be frozen, and so we'll come back to him later. in the in the delightful Zoom world that we are in, We will fix that. Okay, so moving on, then my next announcement is an exciting initiative that I'm, pleased to participate in. with the Chamber of Sausalito Chamber of Commerce, and it's our 30 days of Shop Sausalito. And so we're going to be rolling out different events. But the idea is that for the next 30 days, from June 8th through July 8th We all try to the extent that we can to shop locally, shop in Sausalito and to share our purchases. through various social media accounts and as we can and share with our neighbors, what we were able to buy in Sausalito that you might have not thought possible to buy in Sausalito. So I think, this is going to be an interesting and fun evolution. And what are we about in Sausalito, if not fun and interesting things to do in our own town? And so Stay tuned on that. And there is a little, there's some information in our social occurrence on it. I believe the chamber is going to be posting some information and doing a social media campaign. And so I think Chris might be back. Are you back? Thank you. No? Oh, yeah, yes. Okay, good. Chris, would you like to weigh in at this point? |
| 00:16:05.40 | Chris Zapata | I'm back now. I heard zero. It sounded like Charlie Brown's speaking. It just was mumble jumbled. So I apologize. So if you could fill me in with what I'm supposed to say, I'd appreciate it. |
| 00:16:18.27 | Jill Hoffman | to say, Yeah, let me recap. Brilliant, brilliant comments by your mayor. Thank you to Marcia. Welcome to you, Chris, to Saus Leo. And then Chris, would you like to say anything to the people of Saus Leo at this point? And then of course, you'll have your report later in the meeting. |
| 00:16:45.46 | Chris Zapata | technical difficulties. Apologize. |
| 00:16:49.46 | Jill Hoffman | Okay. Okay, no worries. I tell you what, at this point, let's just go with the welcome to Chris. You're doing a great job, your second day on the job, and we look forward to exciting things to come. And then hopefully, |
| 00:17:03.77 | Ian Sobieski | Thank you. |
| 00:17:07.01 | Jill Hoffman | Okay. All right, Shop Shossalito. Exciting news from the ferry service. It looks like we have a target for return of ferry service on June 16th. So stay tuned on that, but that's the information that we have from the at this point we will, you might recall that we issued a resolution last month Um, naming June as lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer plus pride month. and we flew the flag. The resolution was that we would fly the flag the first week in June, and that we would read the resolution at this meeting And so I am pleased to invite our member on our city council of that community, Vice Mayor Kelman, and I'm going to invite her to read the resolution. So Vice Mayor Kelman, go forward. |
| 00:17:59.88 | Janelle Kellman | Thank you, Mayor Hoffman. And thank you to my fellow council members. I've lived in Sausalito since Uh, 2001 and this is my first recollection of having the pride flag up at City Hall. And I know we really pride diversity, equity and inclusion. And I just want to say on behalf of our community that how much I appreciate this. So thank you for the opportunity. to read resolution number 6040. a resolution of the city council of the city of Sausalito proclaiming June 2021 as lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer plus pride month in the city of Sausalito. and authorizing the rainbow pride flag to be flown at City Hall during the first week of June, 2021. Whereas the city of Sausalito has a diverse LGBTQ plus community. and is committed to supporting visibility dignity and equity for all people in the community And whereas, in honor of the 1969 Stonewall Uprising in Manhattan, June has become a symbolic month in which the LGBTQ plus community and their supporters come together in various celebrations of pride. with cities and towns across the country recognizing and celebrating June as LGBTQ plus Pride Month. And whereas LGBTQ plus people make vital contributions to and enhance the social and economic fabric of the city of Sausalito. And whereas the city of Sausalito has adopted a policy regarding the display of commemorative flags at city facilities that allows for the display of commemorative or ceremonial flags as a means of reflecting the city's viewpoint And whereas the rainbow flag has been recognized since the 1970s as a symbol of LGBTQ plus pride, and whereas members of the city council of the city of Sausalito have requested that the city council approve the flying of the rainbow flag for the first week of the month of June to further symbolize the city's viewpoint in celebrating the diversity of and support for the LGBTQ plus community. Now, therefore be it resolved that the city council of the city of Sausalito hereby proclaims June, 2021, as lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer plus diversity, and establish safe environments in our schools and community. We have further resolved that the city council of the city of South Salado direct city staff to fly the rainbow pride flag at City Hall for the first week of the month of June, 2021. I believe the resolution will be passed and adopted at the regular meeting of the Saucer City Council. on this day, which is actually June 8th, and hopefully the city clerk will call the roll. |
| 00:20:36.33 | Heidi Scoble | Councilmember Sobieski. Thank you. |
| 00:20:37.90 | Ian Sobieski | Yes. |
| 00:20:39.10 | Heidi Scoble | Councilmember Blaustein. Yes. Councilmember Cleveland Knowles. Yes. Vice Mayor Kellman. Yes. Mayor Hoffman. Yes. |
| 00:20:49.32 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. Thank you very, very, very much. Thank you. |
| 00:20:50.91 | Heidi Scoble | very, |
| 00:20:51.24 | Vicki Nichols | Thank you. |
| 00:20:53.83 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, moving on. So this has to do with an announcement with regard to our public forum pertaining to outdoor dining and parklets. So we've been talking about how to approach this and we landed on The best way would be a public forum because we haven't had one really about this issue this year or recently and how to move forward now that pandemic is hopefully we're moving out of the pandemic and the restrictions. So it looks like We're still good for June 15th. for lifting of the restrictions. The staff will be hosting a virtual community forum on Wednesday, June 30th. So more information coming out about that, but I just wanted to announce it now because we just confirmed that date today. So Wednesday, June 30th, starting at 6 PM, The focus will be on three topics. One is temporary outdoor activity permits issued by the city during the pandemic. The second issue will be the pilot program to close the portion of Caledonia Street for outdoor dining. And the third topic will be the temporary parklet permits issued by the city during the pandemic. So again, this will be a public forum on these three issues. and how to sort of chart the path forward now that we are emerging from the restrictions of the pandemic. And so details will be sent out in the South Sea of the Currents and posted on the city's website. And we will reference it again at our next City Council meeting which will be on June 22nd. And so my final announcement and I'm going to say A special presentation will be by Tom Riley, the chair of our Economic Development Advisory Committee. And it will be pertaining to the substantial efforts that that committee did in their recommendations to the City Council. on a wide variety of initiatives with regard to economic development. So I'm very pleased that we were able to accommodate Accommodate EDAC. and Thank you, Tom, for being with us tonight. And I'm going to hand it over to Tom. |
| 00:23:07.83 | Tom Riley | Thank you city council for this opportunity and your support. I also want to thank Marcia Raines for her tremendous support and efforts these past six months. Welcome, Mr. Chris Zapata. We look forward to working with you. I'm excited to see the city recognize your LGBTQ plus community. This is an important step in a long journey towards our supportive diversity. And then finally, I'm excited about ShopSausalito. And if I'm thinking about our tax revenues, everyone should go visit one of our five boat brokers and just buy a yacht and that'll really help the city. So I'm going to share a presentation. Just give me one moment. Here it is. |
| 00:23:51.45 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Are you giving away a yacht tonight, Tom? |
| 00:23:53.56 | Tom Riley | I've Not I. |
| 00:23:55.22 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Yeah. |
| 00:23:57.87 | Tom Riley | So, um, Just by background, EDAC has 12 community members. I'm honored to work with them. We have |
| 00:24:07.54 | Tom Riley | Three liaisons, two of our city council members. Thank you to our vice mayor and council member Sobieski. Our thanks to the CEO of the Chamber, Julie. And we have, One city staff position that we do need open appointed and we have one member position. |
| 00:24:26.27 | Tom Riley | We're organized into five working groups. You understand how we are focused on the priorities of the city. We have one group that works on recovery, helping businesses in the city recover from COVID. another team working on retaining and recruiting businesses to the city. We have a number of vacancies that we want to help fill, and we want to not have any more vacancies. We have a team working on Changing the type of visitors that come to our city, we want to attract. regional and long-term visitors with a greater wallet that they carry and spend more time investing in our city and our businesses. We have another team working on diversification A lot of this work is how do we really explore the benefits we have in the marinship and support those businesses that are bringing us resiliency. And then finally, we're gonna begin working on brand. So that's a little bit of how we're organized. Back in December, we met with city council and presented what we thought were the top priorities from the Cosmon Report. And the city council at that time asked us to focus in on three areas. streamlining the city permit process encouraging business development and commissioning and marineship engineering analysis. And I'll be reporting on our work in these areas in response to the city council's then request. On May 11th, we submitted a letter of our work culminating from those requests. On investments we think the city can make in this coming fiscal year, That will grow our economics as a city and help us recover from this pandemic a lot faster. We've been very judicious on our recommendations on investments to make sure that they are net neutral, that we generate more revenue than our investments. I'm going to refer you to a letter that was delivered on April 11th to the City Council and another on May 11th with great detail into the justification of each of these. but I'll give a highlight as we are meeting tonight. But these investments total $325,000, which is sizable. But we do believe that these investments will put this city in a much better position from a revenue standpoint in the coming year and also in the long term. The first was looking at our permitting processes. Several hundred hours were put into this effort by staff, the EDAC members and community members. but we had a number of meetings with stakeholders as well as city related meetings. I want to share that Lily Whelan, our Community Development Director and her staff were very supportive of these efforts and have creative ideas. We learned a lot from San Rafael, which has a reputation of being a great city to do business with. And we took that input as part of our planning. So we learn from all these discussions, is that Sausalito has a lot of challenges and a lot of opportunity to improve how we handle permitting. Our process is complex. It's very... not very much information how you do it. It takes way too long. We have heard stories of Projects taking years to get approved. There's a lot of dissatisfaction from customers. We have antiquated technology. Our city staff is under resourced, overworked, and they're working as hard as they can. I will share that everyone compliments our city staff and recognizes that this is a technology process and understaffing issue and we want to address that. But then that is, Sausalito is not perceived as business friendly. We put in place five objectives. How can we get to issuing permits faster How can we have higher customer satisfaction and a better reputation of the city? How do we help our staff reduce their workload, improve their morale and improve their efficiency? How do we improve our communications and enhance our service levels? From those five goals, we identified 35 actions we can take as a city. that will improve our permitting and turn us around to be a city that attracts businesses, is welcoming to businesses, and helps our current businesses succeed. |
| 00:28:24.71 | Unknown | It helps |
| 00:28:27.60 | Tom Riley | We learned from San Rafael that it took them seven years to make their changes. We believe that proactively we can get this done in three years. We put together those 35 projects into three phases over three years, beginning in July. We have 18 projects in the first year, 12 in the second, five in the last year, The first here is all about tactical. What are things we can do tactically? The second year is about investing in systems and processes, which we will have researched in the first year. And the third year is getting into continual improvement. This is an example slide of the in-depth materials we have submitted, but all 35 actions have a project name, they have a project description in a separate document and dependencies, But we've mapped out three things for every project. The resources our staff will take to implement these, Do we need external consultants and do we need funding typically towards systems and So I look at like the bottom one here, we just talked about parklets. We said we do believe we need a pre-approved parklet design and a streamlined process for permitting parklets. So we think it'll take a week of a staff person's efforts And it will require $10,000 of possibly having an outside consultant help come up with that standard parklet design as an example. there are 35 of these types of projects. Each of the phases are summarized. So phase one is 18 projects, 12 and a half person months of staff effort, $115,000 we need towards consultants, and $65,000 towards project funding, typically technology. So we know that In the first year, we're asking for $180,000 for Phase I. and we, and then, outside years even more funding. That is a considerable investment. So we want to put together a business case. And so we looked at how can this investment give us return and a very conservative estimate that no one would question. And we believe that if we are more business friendly, we can reduce vacancy impacts by six months. help fill vacancies that much sooner. We can assist in our business recovery, and we believe that these efforts will increase our sales tax revenue by 2%, 4%, and 5% in each phase, respectively. Our economy will recover faster, but we believe these changes will provide an incremental impact if compared to doing nothing. Are BLT revenue increasing similarly? We don't see any increase in permitting fees in year one, but 3% and 5% in out years. So if you look at the top line, those are the revenues these changes can generate. $309,000 to almost $400,000 in yaw years. and the costs are outlined below. So what I'll point out in the cost in the second row, we actually include the cost of staff working on these projects. We're not necessarily saying we have additional staff there, but we want to cover that because we may have to augment that staff. You can see even with that, staff inclusion We are revenue neutral to revenue positive, each of these on these conservative estimates. In the area of encouraging business development, I want to share with you that we have met with landlords, retail office brokers, We've conducted an inventory of the vacancies. We currently have 12 vacancies downtown. And there's even more if you look at the Marin ship and the north end of town. The good news is we have identified many prospective tenants And we already filled five vacancies. And so we're being very proactive in working with brokers and landlords to find tenants for our vacancies. However, we can use help. If we can provide financial incentives to attract new tenants, the tenants that we want, so not all tenants, but the tenants we select we want, We believe that if we give a waiver of business license tax for the first two years, Great incentive. waive permitting fees for initial startup if it's the same type use. and two free parking passes. We believe we provide some streamlined permitting for these new businesses, including a signing and ombudsman, having pre-approved permits for same use as prior tenants pre-approved parklet designs. or even streamlined permitting for pop-ups will help us recruit businesses. We're also recommending that We have interim uses for the vacant B of A building until we have a permanent tenant there. There's strong support for local artists pop-up galleries And we have a committee that would be excited to do that with city approval. |
| 00:32:51.84 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:32:51.94 | Ian Sobieski | I'm not sure. |
| 00:32:52.01 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 00:32:58.03 | Tom Riley | Last year, the city council was very generous to donate $10,000 to the Lovesau Salido Emergency Fund. 13 businesses received emergency funding last year. And we're pleased to see that 12 of them are still in business today and appreciate That's support they received from the city. We're requesting that we put another $10,000 towards this program. This will be the last time we need to do this as we help these small businesses recover from COVID. And then finally, We believe that investing $10,000 alongside the chamber with their donations to this effort We can participate in the state of California's Visit California campaign, which is encouraging California residents to, vacation in California. and the state provides matching funds as well. Finally, |
| 00:33:43.68 | Unknown | I'm not sure. |
| 00:33:44.91 | Tom Riley | We've done quite a bit of work on marketing Sausalito. And I want to bring three important things. We want to attract more regional visitors Overnight visitors And we also want to focus in on the off seasons when we have fewer visitors. No need to market coming here on Labor Day. We want to look at the off season and how we can support our businesses and therefore support Sausalito. |
| 00:34:01.45 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 00:34:12.07 | Tom Riley | Going back to August of 2019, the city council authorized issuing RFP for marketing services. We had three responses to that RFP. We had a nine member evaluation committee. Look at those three responses. Back then it was two members of the hospitality business development committee. two members of the Business Advisory Committee, two City Council members, the Chamber CEO, our assistant city manager, and our economic development consultant. The nine members unanimously selected a firm called Traded Digital Agency or CDA. |
| 00:34:35.84 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:34:35.96 | Ian Sobieski | Yeah. |
| 00:34:35.98 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:34:41.19 | Tom Riley | Earlier this year, EDAC met with CDA And we actually asked them to put together a marketing study on the gaps we have and how they would close those gaps. They delivered that marketing study for $9,000 and we recently reviewed it. |
| 00:34:50.02 | Unknown | They deliver that market |
| 00:34:54.02 | Tom Riley | And we refined the proposal and we recommended that the city of Sausalito fund the CDDA proposal at $75,000 per year And we're gonna ask for a fast start program this month. To give you a sense, I've got to clear my screen, To give you a sense, the program is broken up into over two years, $50,000 for paid paid media search or programmatic efforts. So when you pay to get impressions online, so that's $25,000 a year, roughly $2,000 a month. the additional $100,000 is basically $50,000 a year for CDAs of professional services to do that targeting, build our campaigns, support our events that we're recommending. |
| 00:35:30.06 | John Dure | additional |
| 00:35:40.37 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:35:40.39 | Jim Gabbert | THE END OF |
| 00:35:40.62 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:35:42.63 | Tom Riley | So that gives you an idea of the CDA proposal. We're also, we were working with our prior city manager, interim city manager, Marcia Raines, on a fast start proposal. We have a real sense of urgency to help our businesses And we are going to ask city council and we'll, our city manager, Mr. Zapata, if there's discretionary funds this month to begin this project so that we get a fast start and not wait till July 1st. |
| 00:36:05.97 | Chris Zapata | I'm not sure. |
| 00:36:12.87 | Tom Riley | And we have a proposal for roughly $8,000 detailed by our team of getting a fast start so by early July, we have all the programs and events that we want to market in place. And so that completes my presentation and a little background on our request. Um, I do want to thank everyone for their support. I know that our finance team has been working to get these requests into the budget and we're very appreciative of that. And even if they're in the budget, our commitment is to stay engaged in all these and for every dollar spent, |
| 00:36:43.35 | Unknown | And even if they're in the |
| 00:36:48.14 | Tom Riley | make sure that there's an ROI, that we're measuring the returns on those investments. We're working closely and respecting the money of the city, but we think this will help us get a fast recovery. So thank you for your support. |
| 00:37:00.65 | Jill Hoffman | Thanks, Tom, I appreciate that. And I appreciate you coming and giving us a short presentation the tremendous effort that you guys did on EDAC. So, In the context of our agenda, this is how we're approaching this presentation. So this is a special presentation. The recommendations of EDAC are going to be discussed more specifically in the context of our budget. So that's gonna be tonight on item, six So 6A is our budget hearing item. You know, it's a little bit different that we put this under special presentations, but I wanted to make sure that people were able to see an explanation from Tom, from the chair, of what their recommendations were. The two reports that he mentioned are attached to our agenda tonight under this item of special presentations on the agenda. Um, at this point, um, At this point, I'm going to open up public comment for matters on the special presentations and announcements. So anybody that wants to do special comment on the special presentations we just did, Um, I'm opening up that public comment and then I'll close public comment and then as we noted earlier, Our communications for matters not on the agenda is gonna be after item seven. And so the other thing, is that We're gonna do two minute public comment tonight due to substantial things that aren't on our agenda. And then we wanna make sure that everybody has time to be heard. I'm going to open public comment for the special presentations and mayor's announcements. |
| 00:38:47.92 | Heidi Scoble | Madam Mayor, while we're waiting for any hands to be raised, I'll just read how public comment can be taken. Video or audio public comment participation is limited to two minutes for speaker. If you'd like to make a comment, please raise your hand in the Zoom application and you'll be called upon when it is your time to speak. to raise your hand from a phone, press star nine. each speaker will be notified when the time has elapsed. Madam Mayor, it does not appear as though we have any hands raised at this time. |
| 00:39:12.91 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, in that case, I'll close. I will close public comment and we will move on then to um, action minutes of the previous meeting. Do I have any... We have actually minutes from May 25th and our special meeting of June 2nd. Um, Do I have a motion to approve? as submitted or are there any corrections? Make a motion to approve both action minutes. Do I have a second? Second. Thank you, Madam Clerk, could you please call the roll? |
| 00:39:53.73 | Heidi Scoble | Member Sobieski? Okay, wait, don't mind. |
| 00:39:56.09 | Jill Hoffman | THE COUNTRY. |
| 00:39:56.45 | Heidi Scoble | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 00:39:56.64 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 00:39:56.65 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 00:39:59.10 | Jill Hoffman | So I'm gonna open up a public comment for action minutes. of the previous meetings. So do we have any public comment for action minutes previous meeting? Madam Mayor, there are no hands raised. |
| 00:40:12.01 | Heidi Scoble | and there are no hands on it. |
| 00:40:13.70 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, very good. Then I'll close public comment and now I will entertain a motion. |
| 00:40:19.91 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | I'll make a motion to approve the two action minutes. Second. Okay. |
| 00:40:25.80 | Heidi Scoble | Madam Clerk, could you please call the roll? Councilmember Sobieski? |
| 00:40:29.96 | Ian Sobieski | Thank you. |
| 00:40:30.03 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 00:40:30.13 | Ian Sobieski | Thank you. |
| 00:40:31.13 | Heidi Scoble | Council member Blassey. Yes. Councilmember Cleveland Knowles. |
| 00:40:35.92 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | here. I mean, yes, sorry. |
| 00:40:38.28 | Heidi Scoble | Vice Mayor Kellman? Yes. Mayor Hoffman. |
| 00:40:47.45 | Jill Hoffman | I think you asked, Mayor Hoffman, I think the answer is yes. I'm having some difficulty with my Wi-Fi, it seems. |
| 00:40:58.50 | Heidi Scoble | Yes, so the motion passes five zero. |
| 00:41:00.71 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, thank you very much. And moving on again, we moved committee reports item four to after item seven. So we will move on to consent calendar. Matters on the consent calendar are considered routine and non-controversial. require no discussion, are expected to have unanimous council support and may be enacted Um, by the Council one motion. There will be no separate discussion. of consent calendar items. However, before the council votes on a motion to adopt the consent calendar items, council members, city staff, or members of the public may request that specific items be removed from the consent calendar for separate action. Items removed from the consent calendar will be discussed later on the agenda and public comment will be heard on any item that was removed from the consent calendar. Um, There are two items on the consent calendar. 5A is accept the resignation of Sausalito Board of Trustee member. appointed to the Marin Sonoma Mosquito and vector control district and item B is city manager employment agreement documentation cleanup change And so do I have I would like to Um, open public comment on the consent calendar. |
| 00:42:24.68 | Jill Hoffman | Madam Clerk, do you see any hands? |
| 00:42:32.68 | Heidi Scoble | Madam Mayor, I'm not seeing any hands raised at this time. Thank you. |
| 00:42:35.97 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you then in that case I will close public comment on And I will open the matter up for council comment or a motion. |
| 00:42:44.74 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | I'll move the consent agenda if there are no comments. Again? Thank you. |
| 00:42:50.11 | Heidi Scoble | Okay, Madam Clerk, could you please take the roll? Council Member Sobejewski? |
| 00:42:54.63 | Ian Sobieski | Yes. |
| 00:42:55.68 | Heidi Scoble | Council Member Blaustein. Yes. Council member Cleveland Knowles. Yes. Vice Mayor Kelman. Yes. Mayor Hoffman. Yes. |
| 00:43:05.45 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 00:43:06.92 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 00:43:06.97 | Jill Hoffman | Very good, motion passes. so we are moving right along in our city council meeting in our, Next up is a very exciting public hearing item 6A, which is our budget. And we will have a presentation by Charlie Francis, who is our interim finance director We will also have a short presentation by one of our citizens who headed a benchmarking exercise. I'm not sure. Russ Irwin led that effort and he will... give us a short overview of the report. The report is attached to our city council agenda. And I think that benchmarking effort will be helpful for us in the context of our larger budget. And thanks to those residents who did that substantial and And so Charlie, or sorry, interim finance director Francis, I invite you to begin your presentation. |
| 00:44:08.63 | Unknown | Thank you, Madam Mayor, members of the City Council. Tonight we're introducing the city manager's proposed and recommended budget. to the city council. This is your first public hearing. THE END OF THE END OF THE The budget is the most important activity elected officials undertake because of setting goals, developing approaches to achieve those goals, and develop a budget that's consistent with those approaches to achieve the goals, and that provides a method for evaluating performance and to make adjustments. So where we are in the process right now, is on step number 10 of the calendar the city council adopted back in April We're on step 10. Council budget hearing number one, today's June 8th. The rest of the schedule, as you see, special city council finance committee meeting next week. A revised proposed budget prepared it's necessary city council having their Second public hearing on June 22nd, anticipation of the city council formally adapting the budget. and June 22nd as well. I'm going to go ahead and Topics today, we're gonna talk about the staff and city council roles in preparing the operating budget the scenarios that were developed and consideration for your consideration tonight. THE FAMILY. We'll summarize the city manager proposed budget. We're actually then, look at the ability to customize scenarios that the city council wants to examine a different alternatives than the recommended budget, And then we'll go through the departments and the in more detail if necessary. So, I'll just kind of recap ordinances and policies that about the rules in the budget process. And the first one is it's the duty of the city manager to prepare and submit a proposed annual budget and the first annual salary plan And a policy that we adopted in earlier City Council budget review meeting is that the A balanced provisional operating budget will be presented to the city council for review and adoption with total project expenditures not exceeding total estimated revenues. THE CITY MANAGER by policy. is presenting a balanced budget without the use of reserves But it should be necessary, the city council may approve the budget and use of accumulated fund balances in prior years. for inclusions in the budget. So the finance committee did review the city manager proposed budget. I'm sure that they're prepared to make recommendations to the city council tonight as well. And then the role of the city council then is responsible for approving the budget as we just outlined in the calendar in the previous slide. |
| 00:47:10.17 | Unknown | THE FAMILY. Let's examine the scenarios that were considered. And first I want to give some definitions to the scenarios. first scenario. that we looked at. was what we call a post-COVID scenario. In other words, When COVID hit, the city council and staff work together to prepare a postcode budget. In other words, a staffing plan, and a level of service that would get us through Be gracious. uh, That's called the post-COVID scenario. The second scenario is a gradual return to the economy that we experience before the pandemic. And then of course the third scenario is a pre-COVID scenario where the economy snaps to this pre-COVID condition. Those are the definitions of the three scenarios. AND, AND, revenues then. we estimated the America Rescue Plan, Uh, |
| 00:48:06.65 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 00:48:07.36 | Unknown | that's coming at $1.69 million. We estimated debt and revenues and all three scenarios. Our property taxes remains inelastic across all three scenarios. In other words, What's assessed by the property appraiser we on the TIDU plan we get 100% of everything that's assessed And so that revenue is static across all three scenarios. But our sales tax, our transient occupancy tax the parking and our and the other thing. or, well, They're elastic and they're sensitive to an improving economy. So as we go from a post COVID economy to a gradual return, those elastic taxes increase incrementally till we finally get to a scenario that's, global. comes very close to looking like it did. pre-COVID. Well, So, In all three scenarios in our webinars, cost recovery projects and the planning department. So expenses in the planning department, may look pretty high but there's also an offsetting revenue for those cost recovery projects, and those are the same across all three scenarios. We're also assuming these scenarios the Bank of America Reuse and Reactivation revenues will materialize during this fiscal year, and they'll materialize in an amount at least as much to cover the debt service payments that of do run the bank. of the purchase. And finally, we're looking at inter-fund transfers. Again, they stay static across all three scenarios. I'm going to go. The parking we are estimating $1 million will be transferred from current year revenues to the general fund. covered not only general fund expenses that are incurred, for example, enforcement of the parking lots. but also, you know, indirect costs like finance costs, HR, city manager's time, legal, risk management. of. But anything in excess of those reserves, And that $1 million The budget recommends stays in the parking fund to start to repunish the reserves that were there pre-COVID. of MLK RUNCHING. should generate, along with the accumulated balance to sell right now, should generate enough to be able to transfer $750,000 to the general fund. As the council knows, there's an inter-fund advance between the general fund and the MLK fund THE CITY IS The prior policy was that the advance would be liquid data. up. similar to the amortization schedule of the revenue bonds on the MLK fund. The city manager's budget recommends that we use the reserves in the MLK fund to pay off approximately half of that Interfund advancement And, you know, start to get it off the books faster. The tithelins normally cover transfers $200,000 a year to cover general fund activities within the boundaries, public works, recreation, I could leave. other enforcement activities as well as the indirect class to finance city manager hr legal and risk management. And finally, the sewer fund transfers, 225,000 a year to cover those same indirect costs I just mentioned in the tight end. So all of those interfund transfers have remained across all three scenarios. But that explanation of the revenues Let's look at the expenses. And the city manager recommended budget, which, you know, we'll summarize here in a minute. as the includes the current level of service that the city is delivering today and staffing plan And it's also going to include $325,000 for the EDEC request. And it includes these One-time planning studies, $900,000 for the housing element. $75,000 for general plan implementation, and several smaller ones. but, but it also anticipates a return to internal financial management. In other words, the city would or retain a finance director and finance manager on staff, along with the existing staff, and go back to kind of staffing structure that you had that was actually budgeted for post COVID then. And, um, before the resignation of the a former assistant city manager. Now the gradual return scenario includes everything in the prior slide, the EDAC, the planning study, So it's recommending an outsourced financial management, whereas you would not fill the positions of the finance director and finance manager, but you would contract out for those positions. And then there's some restructuring and moving of personnel in the administration department. some restructuring of the building and planning department and putting in a senior permit technician Well, we senior planners, and adding a planning manager I'm going to go. So restores the second recreation supervisor position, restores two librarians, and provides for ramp up of temporary employees and library and recreation department to meet the demand to come from a gradually returning economy. And then finally, the pre-COVID scenario. includes everything that I just mentioned plus, the temporary employees for library and recreation at full year levels. In other words, to state the economy is going to snap back in July and, And we want to deliver the full range of recreation and library services And it also includes an appropriation for $200,000 for a citywide historic resource survey and inventory. THE END OF This slide covers the cost between the revenues generated in the three scenarios. So the revenue is generated in the Post-COVID scenario are about 31.7 million. Gradual return, we're anticipating 2 million more revenues. The 33.7. And, Finally, the pre-COVID, another million more at 34.7. This is for across all funds. And across all expenses, you guys going from $36 million to $38 million to $40 million. And, And not so the same. whether you're looking at it at expense expense type or expense by department. The next slide. looks at just the general fund portion. Next slide. whereas the general fund goes from 19.2 to 20.5 to 21.3. in the three revenue scenarios. And, the post-COVID. Expenses go from 20.5 to 22.2 to 23.4. So you can see structural imbalance between a post COVID revenue and a post COVID workforce. So the recommendation of the city manager's budget would be anticipate a gradual return of economy and revenues, large enough to offset the gradual return on expenses. And here's the summary of of those pages. THE END OF THE END OF THE So gradual return revenue scenario. post-COVID, post-COVID HR and operation and maintenance scenario brings us a balanced budget of $223. Well, We have not fully fleshed out all of the projects for the capital project fund right now. There's some grants that, The city has done some capital projects where we haven't applied for the grant reimbursement yet. there's, you know, Others where we've gotten the grant reimbursement, but it hasn't been applied against the expenditures. We have a lot of work to do in the finance Public Works Department to clean up our capital projects and we hope to have that ready for you before your a June 22nd meeting. If not, you know, we can adopt an operating budget without the CIP program before June 30. address the CIP budget in early July. THE END OF THE And that's why these special revenue funds aren't showing being transferred into the capital project fund yet. because we have to identify what capital projects qualify for County Measure A, B, use. so that we can then transfer it against those particular capital projects. The enterprise funds pretty much in and clue this is that. But at 750,000 is coming up from the MLK, but still leaving a balance. of $200,000 at the end of next fiscal year. Old City Hall. THE END OF THE END OF THE I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK THAT would go from a negative fund balance to back to a positive one. The parking fund the same way. And finally, the sewer fund, was, Thank you. all funded through rates, rates that can only be used for sewer activities. It's fully funded and still the health and retained earnings on schedule with what our rate study that we adopted several years ago. And then our internal services funds, no anticipation of building up those reserves, except for our OPEB trust and our pension trust. increasing from $4.2 million to $4.750,000 by contributing $570,000 into the OPEB fund. That's your thing. So that's a summary of the city manager's proposed budget. |
| 00:57:53.45 | Unknown | I love you. |
| 00:57:53.58 | Unknown | Let's see here. come over to the next slide. We have the ability to customize scenarios. So this is a static screen. I can hop over to the software where I had the as a at a previous So we were developing the scenarios that was a request by the council to be able to choose different return scenarios for each department So in this example, I chose Gradual return of admin finance, building department, the library, planning and zoning and recreation. as well as our revenues that these departments staying in the post-COVID scenario And that scenario, our change in fund balance is a negative $1.2 million. which would bring our fund balance down to 6.4. which is still, 30% of our expenses, you know, far exceeding, our 10% and our 5% reserves that we've identified as policies. And some additional options that could be considered that we discussed in City Council Budget Review meetings, We could issue pension obligation bonds, which would bring us a yield of 750, I mean, give us that. annual savings of $750,000. who were looking for a short term use All right. short-term hit, I should say. Instead of issuing pension obligation bonds, we could use $1.2 million of our Section 115 trust and pay off one of the amortization bases which would give us $400,000 savings over the next three years. And finally, as we talked about in earlier meetings, of. contributing an asset in kind contribution into our OPEB section 115 trust, could yield $300,000 in annual savings That $300,000 is our current policy to fund the annual required contribution or the unfunded upper liability. with this scenario. the unfunded liability would be offset by the asset and time contribution thereby not having to make that $300,000. Thank you. |
| 01:00:03.40 | Unknown | I'm gonna pause and you know, before I go into detail of each department, uh, with the city council like to, uh, field any questions at the present time. |
| 01:00:15.26 | Jill Hoffman | Just to set the stage here, you are gonna go into department Uh, reviews. |
| 01:00:22.42 | Unknown | If the city council wants that, me too, I definitely will. |
| 01:00:26.59 | Jill Hoffman | I think that'd be helpful. Just to be clear to everybody who's watching in the city council, We're gonna be asking questions and maybe see how our questions adjust the budget as Charlie has presented it, we're not voting on a budget today we're giving feedback to Charlie and we'll be hopefully voting on the budget at our June 22nd meeting. I think it would be helpful to go through the different departments, but I see that some council members have questions now, so I'm happy to, um, go forward to entertain them now. Oh. Did anybody have a question? Okay. So I see hands up from, I see virtual hands up from council member Blasey. Vice Mayor Kellen, but I think, I believe, Councilor Clayton Knowles actually had her actual hand up. So I don't know. |
| 01:01:14.71 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | I know. |
| 01:01:15.03 | Janelle Kellman | Okay. |
| 01:01:16.03 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Vice Mayor can go ahead. |
| 01:01:16.97 | Janelle Kellman | Yeah. Minor religious clarifications on two things. So thank you, Director Francis, for putting this together for us in such an easy to follow manner. We did have the benefit of seeing this, a preview of it at the Finance Committee. You mentioned the MLK rents as offsetting some of the expenses around that. Did you bake in, or how did you bake in some of the rent forgiveness, both for those properties and for other properties within town where that was applied? That's my first of two questions. |
| 01:01:49.59 | Unknown | kept up. THE CITY IS NOT GOING TO the rent I'm not sure. Thank you. |
| 01:01:53.73 | Janelle Kellman | Thank you. |
| 01:01:53.76 | Unknown | Yeah. Thank you. The rent reduction policies, the rent forgiveness, policies that the city council adopted all laps on June 30th. So each scenario assumes that rents will return to the level of what they were obligated to make under their lease. |
| 01:02:10.64 | Janelle Kellman | Okay, great. Thank you for clarifying that. And then my second question is about the CIP and I emailed you earlier today to tell you I would bring this up. So I understand that the program's not fleshed out. We have a lot of work to do before June 22nd. Can you just give the council and the public a sense of what work is required, I mean, we have a CIP from a prior year. We have sort of a sense of some of those priorities thanks to strategic planning. What else needs to be done in order for us to really wrap our heads around it? |
| 01:02:41.08 | Unknown | Yeah, the real difficulty right now is matching the revenue sources to the capital projects that are underway. of the Let me give you an example. The example was how long it took us to request reimbursement from the restricted cash at the Bank of New York the three park projects and the MLK project. that. that kind of activity has to go on for all of the existing capital projects that are going on now. And over the past year, Money has just been transferred in from special revenue sources Revenue sources that are restricted by law on their use and commingled and just Yes. Capital Project money has gone out. And so we have to start matching so we can be able to withstand like a gas tax on it. or County measure A, measure B, or maintenance of effort. reviews that we're obligated to go through. |
| 01:03:37.56 | Unknown | TO BE ABLE |
| 01:03:40.33 | Unknown | So that's the number one activity that needs to happen And as I mentioned earlier, Well, We have to get a handle on the projects that we anticipated were going to be partially grant funded. you know, typically it's, we incur an expense. You ask for reimbursement right after the expenses incurred, the grant is credited in there. THE CITY IS GOING TO BE Maybe some cases where We've incurred the expense projects closed out. And we haven't asked for the grant yet. a grant reimbursement. So all of that, we need to get a firm handle on. so that we know what our real balance is in the fund once that's in place. And then, And then what we do is we look at who are all the current projects that are underway ball. Do you? What do we need? to finish those current projects. And after we're finished with that exercise, Then we're able to say, here's how much money is available from all of our different funding sources for each one of the capital projects that have been identified in the CIP. So, Yes, we have a CIP list of projects. but we don't know if we have the funds to implement those projects. |
| 01:04:52.16 | Janelle Kellman | Thank you. Thank you, Sharon. |
| 01:04:53.92 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. Okay, I'll just, Council Member Cleveland Knowles and then Council Member Blalstein. |
| 01:05:04.57 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Great, thank you, Mayor, thank you, Mr. Francis. So I think I just heard you say that the budget as it stands includes, um, the our budget stabilization policy of 10% and our disaster balance of 5%. Is that correct? |
| 01:05:27.80 | Unknown | That's correct. |
| 01:05:29.04 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Okay. And if we make some adjustments as you noted on this. You showed a slide. that indicated that we could come back to gradual return in some areas. and And then that would have less of an ending fund balance. So for example, on this slide, it shows it at 6.4. as opposed to 7.6. And I think I also just heard you say that that 6.4 would still be relatively acceptable from a risk perspective. Is that true? |
| 01:06:08.12 | Unknown | It is, yeah. The three primary risks that we measure are revenue volatility risk, infrastructure failure risk, and emergency uses at one-time events. of litigation exposure. at the football workers' comp. liability insurance exposure So those three primary risks, when you calculate the likelihood of them happening, of time that event might happen and magnitude. THE FAMILY. THE SIXTH. $4.4 million I believe. comes close to that. exposure to risk. The exposure to risk is an exercise that you know that I've been the whole council knows, I mean, you know, have been wanting to do for some time now. And it's something that definitely We need to. be able to answer Why is 30% of expenditures the right amount I mean, it's just an arbitrary number. Why is 10%, why is 5%? stabilization reserve. that we really want to be able to say is here are the risks we're facing, that it might cost to mitigate those records And then, you know, translate that into a percentage of your annual expenses and now you have, very good justification of why you're holding reserves. and why they're So why we can release some reserves to generate investment in the community. |
| 01:07:36.36 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Right. Okay, great. You know, I noted with interest that the city manager proposed budget that also came out of the finance committee did it recommended in house financial services although we've been talking quite a bit about outsourcing those financial services. So that, if I understand correctly, is that difference in that amount about $700,000, and $20,000. |
| 01:08:03.66 | Unknown | I have the... So the To outsource financial management would mean not filling the assistant city manager position, the finance manager position, and some consulting activity that's going on and the that need to for all the special projects like Abe Bailey is doing. and then to bring on an outsourced financial management team that is approximately to the same amount of hours as a full-time CFO and two full-time finance managers THE END OF THE END OF THE that level of investment. will not just stabilize your general fund, but it will bring back the ability to make that continuous budgeting, the rolling budgeting, the Strategic Financial Management plan. planning and management system that we had But, Well, That is what you need to make decisions as events unfold for you. We also have scenario planning in there. so that you're prepared when the next Black Swan event rather than having to react to the next next one. |
| 01:09:13.41 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Great, and then just to my question, am I correct that the difference, the Delta you've, described it qualitatively, which I think was really helpful, but quantitatively if we look at one column one there on this slide, post COVID versus the gradual return. |
| 01:09:29.66 | Melissa Blaustein | Thank you. |
| 01:09:29.69 | Unknown | All right. |
| 01:09:30.48 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | I believe that difference is in the $700,000, $720,000 range. Is that correct? |
| 01:09:37.66 | Unknown | that, uh, uh, that, uh, that, uh, uh, that, uh, uh, that, uh, uh, that, uh, uh, that, uh, uh, that, uh, uh, that, uh, uh, that, uh, uh, uh, that, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, It's close. I could actually bring up that one software and go through the clicking and show you, I think it's about 750,000. |
| 01:09:47.14 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | That's okay, great. And then just to go back to your options on revenue, additional revenue options. So I asked you this earlier today, but I was, and I was not clear on it. I thought it was very helpful, but you said that options one and two are bullets. The top two bullets are, It's an either, it's an or. We can't pursue one, two, and three. |
| 01:10:11.36 | Unknown | Yeah. You don't get cumulative effects from it. If you do question obligation bonds, we're, not only paying off the police side fund, amortization base, but we're paying off all of the amortization bases. So that's how we get the 750,000 savings. This is saying let's just pick one amortization base the one that gives us the the most a powerful, immediate, impact. which would Just saying, we're going to give you $1.2 million, but we're going to only get $400,000 in savings over the next three years. There's no real It's not a very strategic use of the money. It just gives us a quick hit. |
| 01:10:52.94 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:10:53.04 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Great. |
| 01:10:53.15 | Unknown | So this is the more strategic of the two options here. |
| 01:10:53.21 | Unknown | SO WE'RE GOING TO BE |
| 01:10:53.54 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Thank you. |
| 01:10:56.97 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Which is the more strategic of the two options? |
| 01:11:00.09 | Unknown | the pension obligation bill. |
| 01:11:01.51 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Yeah. Sorry, your cursor was hovering over the second bullet. |
| 01:11:05.36 | Unknown | Sorry. |
| 01:11:05.74 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Thank you. |
| 01:11:05.78 | Unknown | . |
| 01:11:05.81 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Thank you. |
| 01:11:05.86 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:11:07.01 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | I was confused. |
| 01:11:07.69 | Unknown | Okay, great. Thank you. And, And I just want to add that the Pension obligation bonds aren't without risk. So we have to be very strategic in how we structure those pension obligation bonds AND HOW WE CHOOSE to have local control over the investment. as well as being prepared for the next unfunded liability because it is extremely likely that within the next one to two years, CalCO's is going to lower their their discount rate again. So we could pay off the unfunded liability today, And once they lower that discount rate, it comes right back. So there are ways to anticipate that discount rate. All right. and the future unfunded liability. and fund it today. and use our Section 115 trust to help. accumulate the monies to meet that unfunded liability in the future. In other words, let's plan today for tomorrow's pension realities. |
| 01:12:09.24 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Great. Thank you. Mayor Hoffman, I think that's all the questions I had, but just on the point, I did, I'm sure most of us watched the Finance Committee meeting and it was really helpful to have seeing Mr. Francis go through the department slides, but I don't need to see that again tonight and would refer, I mean, happy if other council members want to. The only department I had questions on is police. So if we're going to come back to departments then I'd have some questions at that point. Thank you. |
| 01:12:38.24 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, thank you, Council Member Blasdy. |
| 01:12:40.80 | Melissa Blaustein | Great, thank you so much, Interim Finance Director Francis, and thank you to the Finance Committee for the number of hours you put into working on our budget. One thing I wanted to ask a clarifying question on for our staff and probably our public who would like to know, but both, Each of these scenarios here includes an end to the 10% furlough for staff, correct? |
| 01:13:04.02 | Unknown | Oh, that's correct. It does. And it also does not include any cost of living increase. the 10% furlough, It goes away, but there's no cost of living increase. |
| 01:13:17.47 | Unknown | the |
| 01:13:17.56 | Unknown | Thank you. I'd also like to mention, I did forget one other thing, that is included. |
| 01:13:21.89 | Unknown | that. |
| 01:13:23.07 | Unknown | The CARS funding is included, the historic society's funding is included, There's a lot of you have the request that we normally put into the Thank you. what we call the non-department department are also included in all three scenarios. |
| 01:13:40.94 | Melissa Blaustein | Okay, great. Thanks for clarifying that. I know we had interest from the public and from the staff on all of those issues. And then I also noticed that the disaster assistance fund is negative obviously due to the landslide that we experienced. Is that in all scenarios or do we, and is there no scenario in which we consider a return to that fund? Is grant assistance our best option? |
| 01:14:06.78 | Unknown | to be able to do that. Is that correct? |
| 01:14:08.42 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:14:08.52 | Melissa Blaustein | Thank you. |
| 01:14:08.90 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:14:09.26 | Unknown | Negative. Yep. Right, so it's interesting. It's an accounting entry that it becomes negative, right? because it's just, This fund has spent money that it didn't have. And of course it's being funded by the general fund. Well, So you could actually consider like these two together. THE FAMILY. And how we, the We could fund it by through grants that came in through addressing those issues. start allocating part of this reserve into the disaster assistance RESERVE AS WELL. future years could just allocate future surpluses to that reserve. But one thing we cannot do We cannot replenish the reserve with the American Rescue Plan money. So that's another reason why This budget kind of shies away from punishing any reserves because Yes. if we were ever subject to an audit over that money and they said, You could have spent it here, but instead you increased your reserves and other funds, then it could be subject to another finding. So we're shying away from any expenditures that are invalid and concentrating those expenditures on that are acceptable within the terms allowable uses of the American Rescue Plan. |
| 01:15:29.90 | Melissa Blaustein | And speaking of reserves, this is something that I had spoken to you about today as well, but obviously we're all hoping for a positive economic return as we return to normal and move out of the pandemic. but there are some economic trends that are concerning. For instance, there's an increased inflation rate. There's a likelihood that the Fed might increase interest rates with result in a change in economic trends. So thinking about that and the importance of our reserves, in looking at this budget as it stands now, isn't it correct that we would run out of all of our reserves in perhaps less than two years if we continue on after a year? |
| 01:16:05.77 | Unknown | Well, if we deficit spend at this rate, yes. |
| 01:16:10.79 | Melissa Blaustein | Okay, so, and then also in looking at the budget, then we're in serious need. If this is, this should be considered as a temporary solution and we're in serious need of structural reforms. That's the situation we're facing. right now. |
| 01:16:21.59 | Unknown | I'm not. That's my assessment is that beginning Immediately after we passed this budget, We enter into a season next year of How can we structurally balance our budget you know, have a 10 year. THE END OF THE END OF THE FINANCIAL PLANS. that's not just but it's also sustainable in Missouri. And we may need to do that by making tough decisions on what levels of service to cut today or what revenues to raise tomorrow or how to restructure levels of service to get us to a place where No. we can still meet the needs of the community and be structurally balanced financially. Because you're right, Councilmember's last name. Sooner and later, it always comes down to me. |
| 01:17:05.37 | Melissa Blaustein | Okay, that's all the questions that I have. I would do have questions about the police budget as well, get to that. Thanks. |
| 01:17:13.30 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, thanks. Council member Sobieski. |
| 01:17:16.74 | Ian Sobieski | Oh yeah, right. Thanks, Charlie. I was wondering if you could go back to your slide on the other options. Right. I mean, if you imagine you do all these, are you saying that you're gonna have $1.45 million extra and it would wipe out our deficit? Is that what you're actually saying? |
| 01:17:32.59 | Ian Sobieski | here. |
| 01:17:33.23 | Ian Sobieski | Thank you. |
| 01:17:33.24 | Unknown | It is not. Yeah. So the point number one and number two is an either or scenario. Right. either do this or we do that, but we can't have both. Thank you. So we do. |
| 01:17:44.53 | Ian Sobieski | THE FAMILY. |
| 01:17:46.07 | Unknown | Option one here, the first bullet point, actually pays off what's called all of the amortization bases. Option two only pays off one of the amortization bases. |
| 01:17:57.39 | Ian Sobieski | Great. But so if you choose one or two plus number three, you're talking about 700 to a million dollars. And that would drop to the bottom line, so it would reduce our structural, our this year deficit. |
| 01:18:04.28 | Unknown | Correct. |
| 01:18:09.58 | Ian Sobieski | to between a quarter million and a half million dollars. |
| 01:18:12.73 | Unknown | That's great. |
| 01:18:13.58 | Ian Sobieski | Right. So we talked about this before, but maybe just for everyone, including us, can you speak again about the risks associated with Each of these, you talked about them as other options and it's in black and white, but what's the actual risk associated with these? |
| 01:18:30.25 | Unknown | THE FAMILY. I'm planning a series of workshops on this, Councilmember Sobieski, to help the city council and the community understand the risks and the rewards and strategies that minimize the risks and enhances the rewards. because it is kind of a complicated subject. So basically, and it's basic part is you're switching Hard debt for soft debt. What I mean by that is, the unfunded liability It's like having a variable rate mortgage that's based on the value of your house. If the value of your house goes up, your mortgage amounts goes up. Wouldn't that be ridiculous? and a wonderful No. opportunity for banks. If the mortgage on your house goes down, I mean, if the value of your house goes down, the mortgage goes down. So what happens is is every year, You take what the unfunded liability is, and then if you MEETING. and exceed the discount rate expectation, you have a surplus gain. It's been amortized over 20 years. If you have, if you're, experience in the equity market. does not meet the discount rate expectations, you have a loss, which is amortized over 20 years. And so each one of those amortization bases builds on each other, and they have amortization schedules. And so it's like having a very low rate mortgage the value is always changing and So what we would be doing is going out and borrowing the equivalent of what the unfunded liability is as of right now. and saying we're going to, PAY THAT OFF. And that were being charged a 7% interest rate on it. because that's the discount rate assumption. And right now we can borrow at 3%. So the risk is that if you put that money into the pension system, the pension system, Right. experience. Well, Ross's, that go below the 3% and you've just lost leverage that you have. the There's ways to mitigate that instead of putting it into the CalPERS system, as you would put it into a section 115 trust fund, where the city council has control over the investments and the investment strategy. Because if you're targeting a way to return with 7%. And the new normal. for expectation and equities Uh, is 5%, then you're always going to be falling behind. Whereas if you if you put it in, you invest towards 5%, and you achieve the 5%, we're kind of securitizing THE the difference between the 3% hard debt and 5% soft debt. Great. |
| 01:21:15.49 | Ian Sobieski | So then just in terms of our process here, we're at the next meeting, approving the budget, these other options, how do they fit in then into our budget decision if, You're still there. |
| 01:21:26.02 | Unknown | Yeah. So absolutely, if the city council directs Starting in July, I would bring in a team that would walk the city council through a number of presentations supported with data and evidence, of course, that using our own data and our own pension system numbers. as well as today's market conditions. To walk through the council, I'm anticipating at least three, maybe four meetings of, of how the system works and how we would actually go through the process. after each meeting. the city council would say yes move on to the next step next stage so it would be baby steps getting to us to do it. So when we get the full $750,000 In next year's budget, no, it depends on when we issue. if we issue and when we issue the pension obligation But that would be annual savings going forward. over the next 20 years or over the life of the issue. |
| 01:22:23.07 | Ian Sobieski | Well, this ties into my question. You've been talking about building a much more responsive budgeting process that's almost, you know, I know your ambition is almost real-time budgeting. if we did this or even if circumstances change later in the year in terms of our revenue collections, but I hadn't seen in your presentation as any anticipation of changing any of the budget numbers. Is that built into your process here? Is that something that... Oh, that's right. |
| 01:22:48.84 | Unknown | Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Please. I'm running budget to actual numbers every day as our numbers change. We want to bring that into a transparent process where, you know, I'm transparently transmitting that information to the city council through one of our transparency portals. and then coming back to the city council on periodic basis with recommendations saying, we can accelerate the gradual return of one of the departments or our revenues are exceeding. Do you want to change the policy and start replenishing some reserves up from that. So in other words, We don't want this budget to be STATIC. in terms of This is the plan and we're going to stick to it. as the economy evolves |
| 01:23:34.23 | Unknown | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 01:23:36.01 | Unknown | whether for good or for bad, We wanna be able to have scenarios prepared and plans in place that say, Here's the question. Here's what's happened. Here's the trigger event. Let's implement this plan. |
| 01:23:47.11 | Ian Sobieski | Thank you. |
| 01:23:47.65 | Unknown | So what's the first? |
| 01:23:48.81 | Ian Sobieski | Thank you. |
| 01:23:49.68 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:23:49.71 | Ian Sobieski | I don't know, check-in point, decision point, self-assessment that's built into this forecast. Is it quarterly? When is it? |
| 01:23:58.18 | Unknown | I would expect it to be monthly budget to actual reports. One of the roles of the Finance Committee is to review the current cash flow, the current budget to actual reports on a monthly basis and report back to the city council. So, Management and the Finance Committee would work together THE END OF THE END OF THE to, you know, make continual recommendations. |
| 01:24:22.55 | Ian Sobieski | So would the expectation be if revenue exceeds a certain expected forecast that we would then see budget again as an item? on our agenda to tweak our numbers? Yep. |
| 01:24:33.10 | Unknown | Yep, that could very well happen. |
| 01:24:37.28 | Ian Sobieski | So, Thank you. |
| 01:24:39.78 | Unknown | So if expenditures are rising faster than the revenues, then we might have to, |
| 01:24:39.83 | Ian Sobieski | So anyway. |
| 01:24:45.50 | Unknown | You know, go into a cutting mode. |
| 01:24:47.08 | Ian Sobieski | Well, yeah, let's hope that doesn't happen. |
| 01:24:48.79 | Unknown | I'm not sure. |
| 01:24:49.14 | Ian Sobieski | Thank you. |
| 01:24:49.16 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:24:49.18 | Ian Sobieski | Thank you. I agree with Susan. I also watched the finance committee event and saw the detail of all the departments. I also just have a few questions about parks and rec. and building and planning do so i'd be happy just to ask those questions and Instead of going to the presentation, I don't know what my colleagues think. work. how they want to do it. |
| 01:25:09.32 | Janelle Kellman | I'm going to get in with you. |
| 01:25:10.73 | Unknown | But... |
| 01:25:11.40 | Janelle Kellman | Sorry, Councilor Sipisky, would you mind if I just ask a couple of follow-up pension questions? |
| 01:25:15.60 | Unknown | Peace. |
| 01:25:16.48 | Janelle Kellman | And then I'm fine with what you just articulated, just for the record. Um. So if that's okay with you, Councilmember Sobieski. So, yes, so Charlie, thank you for this. And I'm so pleased to hear that we're planning to do those additional workshops. And so I just want to put a sort of a because I know people are watching, so we have 74 people on this call. They probably want to know a couple of sort of basic things. I guess I would start with what are the plan assumptions especially the assumed CalPERS actual investment or return on investment. I think probably people want to know what's our current pension debt. So in 2005, 2006, our pension debt was 5.3 million. according to the CAFR, I know it's grown exponentially. So I think having some of those numbers available for people to start thinking about would be extremely helpful. I'd like to know how much should we have in the pension trust for CalPERS right now based on prior city council policy. And my understanding is that we actually have fallen behind that trust allocation that was approved by the council in 2018. I'd like to understand why that is and how we as a council can maybe avoid some of those pitfalls or we as a community can plan for that. And then I think it would also be helpful to look at, you know, how do we avoid the debt in the first place? And then the risk assessment, how do we, How do we start paying some of this down? we're guaranteeing a return of 7%, but if we borrow against that, we may only make three to 5%, 6%, which costs us as a community, a lot of money. So, I know we're going to have future workshops, but I just wanted to sort of follow up in some of the Q and A that went and just put a plug in for that additional material, but even just the baseline, where are we and how did we get here? |
| 01:27:13.42 | Unknown | Thank you. You're looking for, I mean, a lot of this has been presented to the city council and the finance committee in the past several months. Thank you. |
| 01:27:20.98 | Ian Sobieski | Thank you. |
| 01:27:21.02 | Unknown | what the assumptions were and all that. |
| 01:27:21.05 | Ian Sobieski | Yes. |
| 01:27:23.31 | Unknown | So, and the simple answer of how we got here has nothing to do with any city decision. Every city detention reform decision has improved our situation. The most simple fact is pension liabilities increase when CalPERS investment returns do not meet the discount rate expectation. brilliant. if they change the assumptions on longevity. Wafel longevity. |
| 01:27:49.03 | Unknown | right? |
| 01:27:50.94 | Unknown | unfunded liability goes up. If, um, the of wage growth. And personnel growth doesn't meet the CalPERS expectation until the liability goes up. It all has to do with THE CITY. arbitrary decisions made by actuaries and then the real experience. SO, If you have an investment manager who has to try to meet the discount rate rate of return That means they have to take on more hits. So the. What has CalFERS done in return to that? They've put a lot of investments in private equity. which is more riskier than to say stock equity for publicly traded funds. They've also And here's a real concern that I have. It will save. As you know, interest rates have gone lower in the order. up until recently. And we'll... What that means is that fixed income INVESTMENTS. the value on those investments goes up and up and up. Well, if inflation is on the horizon, and interest rates starts going up. And I'm holding a portfolio position heavily invested in love. fixed income, the value of that's going to go down. You know, so, That's what I mean is if we issue pension obligation bonds, We may not choose to put that money into the CalPERS portfolio, but to put it into a Section 115 portfolio, where we can start off fresh and not have those fixed income and private equity investments in our portfolio. Rather, we could have a more conservative portfolio that we're only targeting the 5% return. |
| 01:29:32.36 | Janelle Kellman | What is our pension debt today? |
| 01:29:35.49 | Unknown | Oh, I don't have that number at the top of my head, council members. YOU KNOW, WE We were about 80% funded, I think. |
| 01:29:44.59 | Janelle Kellman | Somewhere in the $34 million range, is there? Thank you. |
| 01:29:48.64 | Unknown | I can't. You know, I could flip around and find a site, We can just come back to you at a future council meeting with us. |
| 01:29:55.34 | Janelle Kellman | Sure. |
| 01:29:55.96 | Jill Hoffman | Good night. |
| 01:29:59.42 | Jill Hoffman | Okay. So just to be clear for the non-finance, you know, people. all three of the scenarios that, that, we've presented, or not we, you have presented Um, All three of them are deficit spending. Is that correct? I mean, we're deficit spending. We're dipping into our reserves for all three of these scenarios. |
| 01:30:26.44 | Unknown | THE END OF The recommended budget is not deficit. Thank you, Kelly. It's using the gradual return revenue scenario. and the post COVID, staffing and post-COVID operation and maintenance budget. |
| 01:30:48.04 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, but is the post-COVID scenario, which is the one that was, recommended. that But the expenses are outweighing the revenues, correct? Mike, have I got that better now? |
| 01:31:01.39 | Unknown | better. |
| 01:31:02.27 | Jill Hoffman | Okay. |
| 01:31:02.92 | Unknown | The revenues are greater than the expenses by $223. |
| 01:31:06.43 | Ian Sobieski | Yeah. Which budget was it that had the earlier one is the one the mayor thinks on, which had the negative $1.2 million |
| 01:31:14.52 | Unknown | Well, that's just a made up scenario. where the admin and finance department goes to outsource financial management and do some restructuring of other positions. The building department? puts in a senior planning tech planning permit technician. I can't remember the title. Thank you, Golda. Engineering, Interfront transfers out, landscape maintenance stay at their post-COVID levels of service. Library returns gradually to full service. This is just- Planning and zoning restructures, recreation returns to- |
| 01:31:47.02 | Ian Sobieski | THIS IS JUST |
| 01:31:51.25 | Unknown | a gradual return to full service. And then that is what results in this minus 1.2. |
| 01:31:56.89 | Ian Sobieski | This is just a made up scenario. an arbitrary scenario. It's not the one recommended by the city manager. |
| 01:31:59.42 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 01:32:03.62 | Ian Sobieski | That's correct. |
| 01:32:04.10 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:32:04.47 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, thank you. Okay, thank you for clarifying that. Um, |
| 01:32:11.84 | Jill Hoffman | I had a question about the Measure O revenues. This budget also, uses measure, does not segregate measure O money out for capital improvements, but uses it as just general fund. funds allocated for you know, different uses, correct? |
| 01:32:30.86 | Unknown | That's correct. Okay. |
| 01:32:33.07 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, thanks. Okay. Anybody have any general follow-up questions? Or I know people have different departmental questions. And so I was thinking that we would just roll into specific questions on whatever departmental but I also heard that we have departmental questions on Please? Parks and Rec. planning. And so to me, that means it's all of the departments except for library. So. Should we just... have charlie launch into that or do you guys want to ask her specific questions i think ask specific questions You guys, okay, I'm seeing nodding heads. Okay. I have hands raised for council member Sobieski and, Vice Mayor Kellman, but I think all the council members had questions about specific funds. So why don't we just start off with, Council member Sobieski, why don't we start off with you |
| 01:33:27.95 | Ian Sobieski | Well, I guess my two questions were in parks and rec and on building and planning in parks and rec The city manager proposed budget is still something like 600K. And I'm wondering to what extent we can get in there and actually either, I mean, obviously we can increase the amount of money, but even if before we even look at that, add back in some of these events that I understand have been cancelled and are not being planned through the course of the year. The whole list of events, the garage sale, the movie nights out, the arias in the afternoon, the chili cook off, the yeast, Fourth of July parade, Halloween, uh, by the Bay. generally have a fair bit of cost recovery and that costs the city to K that's roughly 10% of the allocated budget and I'm just wondering even within the allocated budget how do we direct staff to take a look at creative ways to do these events and put them back in? |
| 01:34:20.75 | Unknown | you |
| 01:34:27.50 | Ian Sobieski | even without increasing the budget, or if a budget increases required, how we put the request into actually make a specific trade off proposal about back into our own. events. Um, to our event talk. |
| 01:34:45.67 | Unknown | Yeah. So the Yeah. recreation, budget was prepared. in those three scenarios where same event, gradually returning to all of the THE END OF THE END OF THE events that they used to have and then the full return. and we can, Yeah. actually present to you what those events are and you can go through them and see, oh, I want to add to them or not add to them. We could do that at next council meeting or we can do it through the finance committee. |
| 01:35:21.60 | Ian Sobieski | Um, Okay, so you're saying it would go to the Finance Committee or like |
| 01:35:26.38 | Unknown | Yeah. What I'm saying is that the recreation department in those scenarios. In other words, this graduate return scenario including Return to some of those activities. I don't have a list of what those activities are still at the level is. right in front of me. But we have that list available. It was used in preparing. |
| 01:35:48.97 | Ian Sobieski | the budget. Sure, I guess what I'm asking is, the 602 is what the $602,570 is what the city manager proposed budget is, correct? Right. So that's the number. I'm wondering if we have any granularity or can get granularity about how that is actually spent so that Even if, you know, obviously we have the option of increasing that number, and that is something we can make a trade-off decision to do. But even within the $602,000, there is money being spent on a variety of things. And I'm wondering if we can have, visibility on that to potentially reorder the priorities of how that money is being spent |
| 01:36:21.74 | Unknown | on the road. |
| 01:36:26.42 | Ian Sobieski | to bring in things that we think are higher priority and perhaps exclude things that are most important parties. |
| 01:36:33.88 | Unknown | Yep. Yep. We can certainly schedule a meeting where we go into that level of granularity. I'm not prepared for that level of granularity right now, but we have that. We have all those details. Okay. Um, So I |
| 01:36:49.33 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | So actually that was a question I had as well as on the COVID return scenario for Rec Park. But I know that our director is here, Mike Langford, |
| 01:36:49.69 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 01:36:59.19 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Would he have some of that detail. I mean, I feel like we do need to make a recommendation at least partially this evening, so sorry to interrupt Ian. |
| 01:37:09.33 | Ian Sobieski | That's quite right. This is the point I'm Hoping to bring up by the question, I'm not sure if we move to discussion before or after questions or not, Clearly, we're spending a fair bit of money on recreation, the events that I just delineated are important to the community. Um, There was a way we used to do them before that obviously required a fair bit of work ahead of time and did some cost recovery. but there may be ways actually it was discussed as you know on the parkland rectal liaison And it was partly discussed last night about doing a creative approach to some of these events to do them differently and cheaper. and bring them back. And we might be able to do that even within $602,000. if we, that we'd have to make trade-off choices about how that money is spent. And if we can't make those tariffs, then we'd have to talk about increasing the budget. But, |
| 01:38:00.50 | Unknown | Right. |
| 01:38:01.46 | Ian Sobieski | How do we do that given that we're doing this meeting today and we only have one more meeting? when we're supposed to approve the budget. And as you saw from public comment, |
| 01:38:05.66 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:38:09.64 | Ian Sobieski | people are justifiably concerned about what sounds like the current plan, which is to do |
| 01:38:15.72 | Unknown | Right. |
| 01:38:16.19 | Ian Sobieski | So |
| 01:38:16.48 | Unknown | So, Thank you. Yeah, I'm... I mean, I THINK THAT'S A GOOD It's dawned on me recently that. So, if we're, Budgeting the gradual return for revenue. then almost instinctively we have to budget the gradual return of recreation expenditures because the gradual return of revenues includes increased revenues from these recreation activities. SO, So I'm thinking that that even though the city manager's recommended budget was balanced, that was balanced on the back recreation activities that generate revenue. And we can't expect the department to generate those revenues at this funding level. We need to restore the second recreation supervisor position. So that might be a good question. |
| 01:39:12.97 | Ian Sobieski | might be the case. Can we just take a closer look at that. how that money is being spent. whether we want to stay We direct the director of public of Parks and Rec to prioritize differently. I mean, we, currently there's a bunch of choices that were made about what we're spending money on. |
| 01:39:31.32 | Peter Pentmeter | and |
| 01:39:32.52 | Ian Sobieski | there could be things that are more important and less important to the community and should have stayed. |
| 01:39:38.22 | Jill Hoffman | Can I, if you don't mind, let me jump in here. So we have, We have a parks and rec commission and our council liaisons are council member Sobieski and council member Blalstein. And so I'm wondering, rather than, then digressing into a piecemeal review of parks and rec events tonight in this context I'm wondering if not unlike the finance committee review with a larger context, of the budget if in between now and the second city council meeting, There can be a special Parks and Rec Commission meeting where you guys look at Um, the parks and rec planned events in the context of what the city manager's balanced budget proposal was Funding wise, And council member Sobieski kind of value engineer You know, those three scenarios, what can we do short term, long term, and full post you know, pre COVID. I'm wondering if that might be a more efficient and more effective use of our time? |
| 01:40:50.48 | Ian Sobieski | So to hear what you're saying there, ask park and rectum meet again, give them The one starting scenario was assumed the $602,570 and how would the Commission recommend that money be spent? across the activities. |
| 01:41:07.44 | Jill Hoffman | Bye. I think that would be the most helpful and effective way to look at it because of course with our finance, directors, assistants, look at the cost recovery aspects of those events, because some events are more cost recovery centered and others aren't, and it's hard to know what those are. I asked a question at the last finance committee, what the cost recovery was for Parks and Rec and, Um, Director Francis told us overall it was about 37%, but within that no. that some activities are more. |
| 01:41:42.81 | Unknown | That's what I mentioned then. I think it's actually more So right here, I included this graph after finance committee, so our revenues on 600,000 or about 424,000. We're closer to 60% last week, I believe. |
| 01:42:00.27 | Jill Hoffman | Okay. Okay. Well, happy to hear that. So, so I think, um, I would suggest that we go forward that way with, regard to parks and recs. Um, in that aspect of our budget, does anybody have Any objection? |
| 01:42:15.24 | Melissa Blaustein | object. Thank you. |
| 01:42:15.92 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 01:42:16.03 | Melissa Blaustein | forward that way. Well, we could still technically choose to move away from this city manager's recommendation and go with a gradual return. So there was technically more funds in the park and rec budget, right? Yeah, that's my direction. |
| 01:42:27.66 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Yeah, that's my direction. |
| 01:42:29.99 | Melissa Blaustein | Right. So then if the if the Parks and Rec Commission so and liaison so myself and Council Member Sobieski are going to pursue looking at the budget, then we should look at all three scenarios and provide. not just for the 602,000, because potentially there could be more if we decide to make it. |
| 01:42:43.98 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 01:42:44.00 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:42:44.03 | Jill Hoffman | Yeah. |
| 01:42:44.05 | Unknown | . |
| 01:42:44.10 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. Yeah, I would... |
| 01:42:45.11 | Melissa Blaustein | so. |
| 01:42:45.45 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 01:42:46.56 | Melissa Blaustein | Thank you. |
| 01:42:46.58 | Jill Hoffman | that that would be part of your analysis and then a recommendation to the city council |
| 01:42:46.63 | Melissa Blaustein | Thank you. |
| 01:42:46.68 | Unknown | All right. |
| 01:42:46.88 | Melissa Blaustein | Thank you. |
| 01:42:51.08 | Jill Hoffman | you know, balancing the risk of you know, the risk of, additional spending and deficit spending you know, I think that's fair. And also, the thing about parks and rec too that we try to balance is, We assume that we're going to come back full COVID-19. recovery with no relapses and transmission and things like that. So I mean, there's that risk too, but I agree that right now it's looking positive on that front, so. |
| 01:43:22.45 | Janelle Kellman | Thank you. |
| 01:43:22.49 | Unknown | Thank you. you |
| 01:43:22.86 | Janelle Kellman | Thank you. |
| 01:43:24.61 | Jill Hoffman | Okay. |
| 01:43:25.52 | Janelle Kellman | I'm going to go. |
| 01:43:25.64 | Jill Hoffman | I don't know. Thank you. |
| 01:43:26.57 | Janelle Kellman | Mayor Hopping, can I make a request? I think it's a great idea. I full faith in Council members Sobieski and Blaustein. I just want to, there's a couple of things that I think from finance committee you guys heard it we had we had a long conversation around landscape maintenance um have being in the price and rec budget used to be in dpw uh marcia made the recommendation the interim city manager made the recommendation that we could have efficiencies if we move those back to dpw so um you may want to just consider that and take take a look at that to Council Member Sobieski's point, what does $600,000 get? Are these expenses all net, right? Some might have fees and income. If you go to the other scenarios, how much of the cost recovery are you carrying with you into those other scenarios would be good to know. And then I'll just also know that the EDAC suggestions had, I think $50,000 for some of a co-sponsored event. Is that money that can be included in the parks and rec budget and rightfully should be to put forward an event in which case maybe that's how we have another 50K to find. So I just wanted to Throw those out there if you wouldn't mind considering those as you look at this in Parks and Rec. I'd appreciate it. |
| 01:44:41.80 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, any other suggestions for the parks and rec review? And if not, then we'll move on to other departments that council members have specific questions about. |
| 01:44:50.02 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Yeah, I mean, I would only give my feedback that I am very supportive of the COVID recovery rec park budget scenario. And it would be helpful to know exactly what more is in there. But we do know from our staff report that it's restoring a recreation supervisor position And as I understand it from, you know, from this year, there's only so much that our recreation and parks department can do with the staff that they have So it's really a staff resource thing more than the actual dollars to put on each particular So I'm Yeah, I would just say at this moment in time, I supportive of the COVID recovery budget number for that department and look forward to hearing what Council member sobieski and blasting find the night when they look into it, but they have come up with three budgets already. every department came up with a you know, small, medium, large budget. So those are already developed, so I don't, you know, I think we've got to be careful about reinventing the wheel here at this date. |
| 01:45:49.37 | Jill Hoffman | All right, thank you for that. Any other further comments with regard to Parks and Rec, and then we'll move on to... the police department, I suppose, and then we'll go back and then we'll do planning after that. So any, Okay, no further for Parks and Rec. Then we'll move on to the police department. who has questions for the police department budget. I see hands right there. |
| 01:46:12.01 | Melissa Blaustein | Thank you. |
| 01:46:12.88 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 01:46:12.89 | Melissa Blaustein | Go ahead. I don't have to, I just thought, I didn't know what everyone's hands are raised for. Okay. So, |
| 01:46:21.18 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 01:46:21.85 | Melissa Blaustein | Thank you. |
| 01:46:21.97 | Jill Hoffman | So those of you that have police department questions, vice mayor, I've seen no? Hand down, okay. Council member Cleveland Knowles, you specifically said you had a question for the police department, so go ahead. |
| 01:46:33.68 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Thank you. |
| 01:46:35.67 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 01:46:35.69 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Sure. So last year, you know, probably most people remember we had significant cuts to almost all of our departments, but we did not have the 3% cut to the police department, which was contrasted sharply. with high 20s and 30% budget cuts to library, rec park, and others and at that time we were engaged in discussions with mill valley on shared services and you know really hoping that we could develop some structural reform |
| 01:47:00.36 | Unknown | I'm not sure. |
| 01:47:12.39 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | on the costs. But that was not, you know, that's takes time, obviously. And I am. interested to know now this year the police budget is actually unlike most of the other departmental budgets has gone up again Not hugely, but it has gone up while other departments have gone down. And so I'm interested to understand why that is and what, I mean, I think we essentially directed the police department last year to consider the structural potential for structural reforms in the department and how we could achieve some significant savings because it is you know, one of our largest expenses. So I was pretty surprised and disappointed this year to see that there had not been any progress made and so you know I doubt that we'll be able to make progress in two weeks but I would like to hear if we have some long-term if those discussions on shared services have been continued. I'm by our mayor, vice mayor, city manager, what the plan is there and maybe just to hear more about it. But we really that is our one of our biggest cost centers. |
| 01:48:23.66 | Ian Sobieski | Thank you. |
| 01:48:27.20 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | And, you know, we had worked pretty hard last year on some proposals to make some and kind of long-term decisions and you know, so I just kind of Sorry to see that we are where we are again this year. |
| 01:48:45.76 | Jill Hoffman | So I know we've been talking with Mill Valley about some shared services. There was, when I, Earlier this year, there was some talk of us merging, actually merging with Mill Valley. merging our police department and I think we decided definitely not to do that at this time. And so I think Charlie, do you know |
| 01:49:10.84 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Thank you. |
| 01:49:11.66 | Jill Hoffman | about, |
| 01:49:12.04 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | I'm not. |
| 01:49:12.83 | Jill Hoffman | So, and how |
| 01:49:12.86 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:49:12.88 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | So when was that decision made? I don't remember having a conversation about that. |
| 01:49:17.54 | Jill Hoffman | about about whether or not to go forward with a merger with Mill Valley. That was before I, it came off It did not go further. That was before I became mayor. So that would have been in your, in the fall of last year, it was being discussed I believe in the summer that was before I came back. That was our shared services discussion. |
| 01:49:37.11 | Melissa Blaustein | Amen. |
| 01:49:40.00 | Jill Hoffman | Well, that was okay. That was my understanding was that the possibility or potential for merger with no Valley was being discussed last summer. and that, the decision was not to go forward so that was before I became mayor and before I came back so That's my understanding. Um, Charlie, do you, I don't know if the chief is on or if he's able to at this point talk about the ability to the efforts to merge or not merge, I'm sorry, shared services. with regard to the police department. And we can certainly get that in the interim and we can disseminate that information I think in a one-way communication between now and the next city council meeting for sure and we can actually discuss that at the Finance Committee meeting which anybody can, 10. and anybody can watch after. So we can definitely put that on our list. Is that possible, Charlie? I, let's just. Let's just say this. the council member cleveland nolas has stated some very good points that she would like to have the police department address in the context of this budget and efforts going forward after this year, or not after this year, after we finalize this budget, as we move through the next year and the management of our department. I'm wondering, I think the best thing is to we, you know, have her questions. to the police department and we can address that at the next Um, at our next finance committee meeting, which is Monday, June 14th at one o'clock. is, Is that an agreeable way to handle those questions? Because I think those are valid and good questions. So, Okay, and any further questions for the police department? Yes. |
| 01:51:33.03 | Melissa Blaustein | Bye. Yeah, I wanted to follow up on, because I agree with council member Cleveland Knowles I view a budget as a reflection of our values as a community, and I'm also disappointed to see that we would be making significant cuts to parks and recreation programs and then not be making leveling the playing field across all departments and specifically after the you know, and reckoning that we all saw in 2020 and our support of and conversations around potentially reimagining public safety in our community to not even consider making cuts to the police department's budget is is very surprising and concerning. and i wanted to just ask charlie a couple questions that we spoke about this afternoon to clarify so the public is aware um this is including um even if we remove unfunded liabilities from these budget changes and even if we remove workers compensation, which are two significant budgets that may have changed. The budget is still increases for police this year from the year before, right? |
| 01:52:36.09 | Unknown | As personnel walk through their there's natural increases. that occur and, um, you know, it and and wages. And then there's, you know, the changes that occur because of MONEY. health care. We see that across all departments that The personnel services still have an increase in them over the prior years. because of people moving through step plans because of an increase and I don't know. INSURANCE RATES AND INCREASING and CalPERS premium, informal costs, and things like that. |
| 01:53:12.29 | Melissa Blaustein | whereas we saw our parks and rec supervisor position be removed we saw the last budget considerations that the police department eliminated what was going to be the consideration of a new hire but there was no Elimination of any positions, right? It's the same staffing levels. |
| 01:53:29.14 | Unknown | Yes, the same staffing level. |
| 01:53:31.20 | Melissa Blaustein | Okay, I just want to make that clear so that I would really like to see a consideration And I mean, I think that the chief had prepared, or I know the city manager had asked for preparation of considerations with different levels across, and one was up to a 10% cut. I would really like to see us look at this as we consider because it's not only not only because it's a significant amount of our budget. So that's something to consider just from a general fiscal responsibility standpoint, but also as we start to think about budgets representing our values and what we want them to look like. where we want to be spending our money and how we want to support our library and park and rec in an equal way to how we might support our police and public safety, which is an incredible department that I have a lot of respect for, but at the same time, All of our departments are critical to our community, and I think that should be reflected in our values |
| 01:54:26.91 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, sorry, I... I keep, um, turning off my video because I'm having a problem with my Wi-Fi and unstable connection. Anyway, if you see me, my window pop on or off, that's what I'm doing. Okay, so any other questions Ruth with regards to the police? Okay, I'm not seeing any hands amongst the council members. So then let's move on. I believe there was a question in planning in the planning department or community development. And I see a hand from council member Sobieski. Go ahead and if anybody else has a question for that department, go ahead and raise your hand. |
| 01:55:01.91 | Ian Sobieski | Charlie, you talked about restructuring of the building and planning department. And I'm wondering if that refers to the EDAC recommendations or is that something separate from EDAC? |
| 01:55:10.68 | Unknown | It's something separate and I think the same issues that are affecting Mayor Hoffman. Wi-Fi is affecting my program here. |
| 01:55:21.99 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:55:22.04 | Unknown | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 01:55:22.07 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:55:22.09 | Unknown | I'm not sure. |
| 01:55:22.31 | Unknown | Let me see. OK. show you. Thank you. exactly what's happening here. okay and we'll come down to comparative personnel scenarios and Chairman's committee. |
| 01:55:42.91 | Unknown | All right, let's do it well for you. |
| 01:55:49.09 | Unknown | All right. |
| 01:55:50.03 | Unknown | It's just, I was working so fast at the beginning of this meeting. Okay, as we're waiting for it to go up, you can see here that we're adding a permit services coordinator to the building and permit. technician stage. So The staffing level will go from two to three. Part of that would then address one of the concerns of the EDEC committee of the bottlenecks that occur in permitting planning and in the less so kind of a address the of. on both sides, the building and the engineering and the planning side. And then on the planning side, Right now we have an admin, two assistant planners, one community development director and one senior planner. for a total staffing level of five. the gradual return scenario I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THIS. let's keep the administrative aid, but go to three assistant planners of course have the Community Development Director and then have a planning manager, but eliminate the senior planning manager. So we do go up by one full-time position. within this category here. Those two restructurings then, THEIR OWN. you know, manifest themselves in the gradual return. scenario. |
| 01:57:07.42 | Ian Sobieski | And certainly Charlie, one of the recommendations is to hire an ombudsman. Is that here somewhere? It is. |
| 01:57:13.24 | Unknown | It is. And our buddhisman is not here. It's in what we call the non-department department. And it's part of the $325,000 that's in there. Thank you. Thank you. |
| 01:57:28.36 | Janelle Kellman | So Charlie, a couple questions on the same department. So let's just pick up that one about the ombudsman, moving over to the non-department department. but the overall goal is to increase efficiency of this department and therefore reduce costs. How why would we keep it as a non-department? I mean, so my experience with 10 years on the planning commission is that we've basically eviscerated the institutional knowledge of the community development department, but a lot of outsourcing. And it's really difficult when we have high turnover in planners and consultants. So I would like to see us pull more full-time staff into planning and zoning so that we can leverage that institutional knowledge and really build that up. So I think overall and long term will create more operational efficiency. can we move somebody like the ombudsman back into planning and zoning to help facilitate |
| 01:58:19.56 | Unknown | I don't have a full grasp of the EDAC recommendation. It's the ambitie. What I tried to do is keep all of the accounting for the EDAC recommendation in one place. rather than have it spread all through the budget. And then next thing, Someone asked me for how much have we spent on EDAC? And they'd have to go to five different places to find it. So whereas now it's being accounted for all in one line item. The ombudsman became a full-time employee of the city. Well then of course we would budget that full-time employee in the planning department. If the ambagement is a consultant. working under the aegis of EDAC. then we would wanna keep it where the, the authority lines. |
| 01:59:07.81 | Janelle Kellman | Yeah, and you're right. It's not really fair for me to, I just want departmental questions for our new city manager. I guess what I'm getting at is, from the, let's take the EDAC suggestions around streamlining, permanating I just welcome the council to consider keeping that within planning and zoning as part of the budget so that we can really get a grasp on the operational efficiency of this department and support it in the way that it deserves to be supported. And I think it concerns me if we start to separate out some of that budgeting, we don't have a long-term really can't grasp the metrics for success. And this is the type of, I think to permit that has a clear metrics. It has permit streamlining act, it has requirements around how long we can take, the number of permits we issue, the total cost recovery. So I would just make a suggestion or my opinion would be that we, we try to include as many cost related permitting within the the actual community development department so that we can |
| 02:00:05.60 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:00:05.91 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:00:07.70 | Unknown | So what I see of the EDEC, and maybe I'm just reading it, Ryan, it's to, to implement certain processes and procedures and to provide consulting advice on how to improve the planning permitting activity. the outcomes of all that is definitely measured as as part of the planning metric. right? That's where we're going to be measuring it. but, It doesn't really matter where the expenses are occurring, if they're occurring as a consultant line item in the non-departmental budget, we can always then report, here's how much we spent, And while streamlining the process. And here's the results that we received from Surin-Nine of the Process. The actual account code doesn't have to reside in one place. as long as we can. |
| 02:00:59.45 | Janelle Kellman | THE FAMILY. |
| 02:01:00.80 | Unknown | Grab that account, Coach. |
| 02:01:00.97 | Janelle Kellman | I love them. I appreciate that. I guess that, again, this is probably for our new city manager, but I'm just thinking from a streamlining perspective, not just our businesses, but our many residents would probably appreciate the lessons learned from the opportunity to streamline and to facilitate those transactions. And so just want to be able to capture that efficiency as we develop it um and then build upon it because i'd really like to see us build up the community development department since it is a revenue generator it is such a an important part of our community and it impacts both our our residents and our businesses so i'm approaching it from how do we make this department you know even even better |
| 02:01:35.87 | Unknown | that. |
| 02:01:39.02 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, so any other departmental questions at this point or any other general questions for Charlie. |
| 02:01:49.17 | Jill Hoffman | I'm not seeing any hands raised by our council members. So Charlie, I think, I think that concludes your, at least your presentation. And then I had a hand up by our city manager, yes. Go ahead. |
| 02:02:05.47 | Chris Zapata | Hello Mayor. Just briefly at the end of the public comments I would like to ask a few minor questions give you a few major thoughts to wrap up. what all this work is that people have done over the last six months. So yeah, I have a couple of questions and I do have a few thoughts to share with you all in the public. |
| 02:02:26.41 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, very good, thank you. City Manager is a product. And so at this point then we have our benchmarking our benchmarking Spearhead. you know, who's our resident who led an effort to benchmark. the benchmarking, um, materials were sent to the city council. Um, a few weeks ago. maybe even a month ago. And we talked about it at the finance committee meeting. And so we asked that one of the guys that spearheaded that effort would come and give us a short presentation on what their, what their conclusions were or findings were as part of their effort. I think, I believe Russ Irwin is on the line and he's going to give us a short overview of their effort. and their findings and their conclusions so that we can have that as a tool in the context of our budget discussions. And so we thought at the finance committee that was important. If Heidi, if Russ is still on and he can, I saw him come in. So if you can. unmute and |
| 02:03:36.36 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 02:03:37.30 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 02:03:37.32 | Heidi Scoble | Let him come on. Go ahead. Excuse me, Madam Mayor, Russ Irwin has been given co-host functions and has the ability to control um, his microphone and his video. Okay. |
| 02:03:49.49 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 02:03:50.35 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 02:03:50.38 | Jill Hoffman | All right. Oh, very good. Okay, I can hear you, Mr. Irwin. |
| 02:03:57.38 | Russ Irwin | I read it and I snark my video actually, but I wish, could Heidi put out the attachment? Yes. |
| 02:04:03.05 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 02:04:03.07 | Russ Irwin | Thank you. |
| 02:04:03.51 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 02:04:03.78 | Russ Irwin | Thank you. |
| 02:04:03.80 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. Thank you, Heidi. Go ahead, Russ. Russ is just going to drive us through this, so go ahead. |
| 02:04:10.66 | Russ Irwin | Uh, okay. First of all, thank you for all the credit, but it really doesn't go to me alone. This was a project which was Vince Chilino. Bill Manet. John Payton? and myself. There was only four people who contributed to this and who did the work and did the data collection and collaborated to produce this result, which really is more than 10 minutes. So let's just go through, I'm gonna start with the conclusions and then we can look quickly at the data because the data really requires more attention and you should look at it yourself. First of all, We compared six cities Carmel by the sea was one of them. And it's an absolute and total outlier So when I make comments about other cities, it doesn't include Carmel. And you'll see that in the data. So here are the takeaways. Number one, Sausalito collects more revenue per household than any of the other cities in the study. It has 50% more revenue per capita than Mill Valley. and roughly twice as much revenue per capita as every other city. Saucelito does not have a revenue problem. Sausalito is considered to be very dependent on tourism, but actually Sausalito is a little more dependent on tourism than other Marin cities, and significantly less than what you consider to be tourist cities like Nielsberg, Sonoma, or Carmel. We have a little more dependence on sales tax from tourists. and other Marin cities. But if you look at the year over year numbers for, Q2 of fiscal 20, compared to Q2 of fiscal 19. You'll see the sales tax revenue when there were no visitors in town, actually went up. which tells you the city is not nearly as dependent on sales tax revenue from visitors as is considered general knowledge. So, shifting the local business mix further towards residents and residents serving businesses would improve the resiliency of the city's sales tax revenues as we saw during the pandemic too. Sauslio spends more per capita than Novali. roughly twice per capita as every other city. In other words, we collect more money, And we spend more money. General government and public safety account for most of the spending excess compared to the other cities. These are areas that we think merit further investigation. We came across two very good examples, the Ross Valley Fire Department and the Central Marin Police Department which are multi-jurisdictional public safety operations which are providing very good value And I have no reason to think that in addition to that good value, They don't also provide good safety. Three, Sausalito's reporting of business type activities is completely inconsistent. We have expenses for parking enforcement officers buried in the police department, while the revenue for parking is reported as business-type activity. This means the parking net income in the parking fund is overstated. because we're not reporting all the expenses along with the income. The leasing of some public properties is reported as a business type activity. So like MLK and Old City Hall. While other public properties like the firehouse and tidelands are not reported. This inconsistency masks what's going on in our finances and what's going on in our business type operations. It's an accounting issue. It's not necessarily an operational issue. What it? The accounting is what the council is looking at. In the course of this, again, we found Heelsberg, which is not much bigger than Sausalito, population of about 12,000 compared to South Street of 7,000. Here's a city which is barely larger than Sausalito, It operates its own electric utility. delivering power dramatically cheaper than PG&A. It operates its own water utility. and it operates its own airport, and it actually also operates its own golf course. And we think it's a very impressive example of a well-run small city business type activities, which warrants further investigation by the city manager and the council. Ah. Only Mill Valley has a higher unfunded pension and personnel liability per household of Sao Saito. So we're not doing well on that score. And finally, other cities appear to be doing a better job of obtaining grant money for public works projects, especially if you look at Larkspur, Sen and Soma in Healdsburg. So those are the five takeaways I want to make a distinction whether you're going to see per household. than per capita. So Ocelito has about 1.7 residents her household. So we have 4,000 households. about 7,000 residents. So we have a few more households because we have less people per household than some other cities. So Heidi, could you go about two slides down? |
| 02:09:57.26 | Russ Irwin | There's a lot of information here which you should read separately on our methodology and specific comments. One more slide please, Heidi. All right, this is the big picture. This is the revenue summary per household and the expense summary per household. Left to right, you're looking at Sausalito, I guess revenue. and the biggest spending. Max Lenovo Alley. Next sentence, Selma. Then Larkspur. then Healdsburg, Sonoma. Carmel. Carmel's a big outlier, as I said earlier. there's a lot of reasons for that. their tax rates are higher and Yeah, maybe. We are heavily dependent on tourism. So this is This is graphically pretty obvious that We get plenty of revenue. We're just spending it perhaps in ways that aren't satisfying To everyone. I think One more slide. Okay, that's the detail. You can look at that separately. Now we're looking at it per resident or per capita. The numbers really don't change a little bit, The same trends are pretty obvious. Sausalito has more revenue and more spending. Um, let's see another slide. And again, Okay, these are the detail numbers, which obviously we're not going to dive into today. But I hope that both residents and the council and Department managers will take a closer look at this. This is 1920 and I'm sorry. Fiscal 19 and fiscal 20 combined. and try to smooth out the data. In Mill Valley, they had not yet published their 20 numbers. So we only have the 19 numbers. Let's see, let's flip through another couple more, Heidi. |
| 02:12:03.53 | Russ Irwin | one more. This is retail sales. So you might be surprised that our retail sales per household So this is basically working backwards from our tax base and our tax revenue. Uh... We don't have a whole bunch more retail sales than Mill Valley. We have a little more than San Anselmo and a large spur, obviously. much less than Healdsburg, which is probably attributable to, uh, wineries and tasting rooms. I got about two minutes, I think, or was that time for me? Hello? |
| 02:12:42.70 | Jill Hoffman | That would be fine. If you could wrap it up in two minutes, that'd be... |
| 02:12:46.67 | Russ Irwin | Absolutely. Okay, let's keep going. One more. Liabilities, again, you can see where we stand in terms of long-term debt. which is a separate issue from pension and personnel. Again, this you can study on rough. So, The bottom line here is This is data. It's not. conclusions or policy decisions. This is data that we would hope would be used by the city manager in his assessment and management of the city's operational spending. I know you've been discussing budgets and the city manager did not have an opportunity, obviously, to influence that. |
| 02:13:27.07 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:13:29.12 | Russ Irwin | but in the coming year, This is a way to take a look at what we're doing and how it's working. It's also our hope that the council Well, consider the revenue benchmarking when they're making future revenue and policy decisions. And that's it. My time's up. Questions or I'm out of here. Okay, thanks. |
| 02:13:50.66 | Jill Hoffman | Thanks again. This was This was the offer from this group to do a review of this type to help us in the picture of of decision-making processes of us moving forward, looking at our budget. It was meant to be a tool and we thank them for going to all the hard work and doing the statistical analysis between the different cities. If council members have specific questions for us, that's fine, but I don't wanna take a lot of time with this. I just wanted to present it as a tool and make sure that the public had it in the same way that the city council had it and that we had had it as a finance committee. So if there's any questions for us at this point, that's fine. If not, then we'll just move on to public comment. for the budget. |
| 02:14:44.29 | Ian Sobieski | is... |
| 02:14:45.89 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, go ahead Councilmember Sobieski. |
| 02:14:47.83 | Ian Sobieski | Yeah, I was just wondering if Russ could just elaborate for a second upon whether any of the conclusions that were drawn are affected by the for particular departments are affected by the distinction he also underlined between per capita and per household. So for example, The revenue for household versus Mill Valley |
| 02:15:03.05 | Peter Pentmeter | Yeah. |
| 02:15:03.17 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:15:03.19 | Peter Pentmeter | you |
| 02:15:03.24 | Unknown | you |
| 02:15:03.29 | Peter Pentmeter | Thank you. |
| 02:15:06.48 | Ian Sobieski | 20% higher, not 50% higher and spending is 10% higher. Um, so I know that there's some spending that is in proportion to households and there's other spending that's more in proportion to individuals, just like And I'm wondering if any of the conclusions are affected by that. |
| 02:15:28.60 | Russ Irwin | Yeah, again, it's data and that's a department by department question. And I think it's something that the city manager should look at and the council should look at. and think about okay for for this department this is the metric that makes sense for this department this is the metric that makes sense so all the data is there and you can Use whichever data you think is appropriate when you're considering policy for a given department. |
| 02:15:57.15 | Ian Sobieski | Great, thank you. And I just want to say thank you for this effort. I think this kind of data is just so Awesome. to have and the fact that our residents could do this kind of work is some attribute to the kind of people we have in town volunteering. to help us out. So thanks a lot to everybody involved. |
| 02:16:13.17 | Russ Irwin | Yeah, you're welcome. And as I said, I didn't do this alone. There was a group of four people. |
| 02:16:24.32 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, so then if no further council member questions, then we'll go ahead and open up for public comment with regard to the budget. Um, And so I'm going, I am going to limit public comment to two minutes because we have a lot of people, I think that want to talk and we have two more pretty substantial items on our agenda tonight so in an effort to to move us along in a timely manner. We're gonna limit public comment to two minutes. And so, Madam Clerk, I'll just let you call call the the speakers and My apologies. going dark again. |
| 02:17:00.94 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you, Madam Mayor. We have... Four hands raised at this time. Our first speaker will be David Sudo, then we'll have Vicki Nichols, then Joe Burns, then Carolyn Rebell. Okay, thank you. |
| 02:17:13.63 | David Sudo | Good evening council. Thanks for a really exhaustive look at our budget. I'm not sure if you're a couple of things I heard tonight that I have concerns about first is director Francis's comment about measure o funds being intermingled in our general budget and just a reminder that the measure language said that we're supposed to have a a annual audit of the measure of money and and a financial detailed financial report. for that. So if we're injecting measure O money and not tracking it through the system. That's a big problem, especially when we're going to be asking the community to renew that measure in in a couple years and we want to have transparency and accountability Um, Second, I'm concerned about funding for our planning. engineering and community development departments. It looks like, we're net losing two positions in those departments and Um, we're talking about efficiencies, but really, Thank you. when it comes down to it, we're talking about what we're not going to do, what, what we're going to do. what the city, manager and the department heads what are going to determine which tasks aren't necessary to do because if we don't eliminate that those tasks staff workload will increase past their ability to do it and burnout is a real problem and we'll lose Um, people that we don't want to lose from our I don't know. our staff and Finally, I just want to I think it's a great thing. you know, Russ is, presentation was interesting, but I think Carmel is not an outlier. It's an indicator of scale. And Sausalito is on one end of the scale and Carmel is an extreme end of that scale. but knowing my work with the school district has elapsed California doesn't scale well |
| 02:19:15.75 | Heidi Scoble | It's a little bit of a stretch. |
| 02:19:20.26 | David Sudo | Thank you. |
| 02:19:23.03 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:19:28.14 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 02:19:28.19 | Vicki Nichols | Vicki Nichols, you've been unmuted. Yes, thank you. Good evening, Mayor Hoffman and council members. And thank you, Charlie, another thorough budget presentation. I have a couple of thoughts. I'll give you the rapid two minute elevator Comments. First of all, I understand I saw in one scenario that finally the historical preservation inventory will be funded this was taken away years ago so I'm thrilled about that and I hope that is a strong option in whatever scenario you pick. And thank you very much. I wanna just mention that I'm not trying to defend any department, but public safety employees are always the largest part of any budget. And I think that it would be interesting to check, and I'm sure Chief Rohrabacher, I can't remember the acronym, but there is a, statistical review that's required to be done on police departments by the state and I believe we've always been under staffed. We're forgetting that we have an influx of visitors that changes our demographics unlike other cities. So when we're doing these comparisons, I think we have to look at that. Lastly, I want to put in another plug for the Tidelands Fund. I think in this line item, we need to start that. taking a percentage of those tideline revenue Thailand fund revenues. and, making a line item for sea level rise planning. We should do that immediately to be able to leverage those accounts for matching funds. I think that's it for now. So I'll be back at the other meetings, but thank you very much. Oh, planning. I can't even just say planning has got to be funded. You're not getting happy people in town because they are beaten up, they're exhausted. So to do the funding in 2023 under the EDAC plan is false economy. Get them funded now, please. They are revenue generating. Thank you. |
| 02:21:32.17 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:21:32.53 | Vicki Nichols | Thank you. |
| 02:21:32.61 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 02:21:38.43 | Heidi Scoble | So Burns, you've been unmuted. |
| 02:21:41.60 | Joe Burns | Thank you. I'm going to leave the video off. I did not do my makeup today. But I want to thank you all. What a great conversation. And always good to see Charlie back at the financial helm. Um, Mike. My concern is around the B of A, and I'm sorry that all these were concerns, that's just how this is going, but it's a concern around the B of A dollar amount of $160,000 potential revenue in this coming fiscal year. I don't see that. happening. if we're gonna RF around through the summer and then negotiate with a party, Any highest and best use for that property will have some period of time for both zoning change, tenant improvements and all the permitting. So to start earning revenue that quickly seems like maybe unless there's conversations going on with somebody outside of the current RF-ing. I'm not sure. So, I might look at that number again and see if there really is a way to earn $160,000 off that building before July. I'm working on a deal right now where we have a six-month abatement and it's use to use. This is going to have a different use. I very well could see a long period of rent abatement having to be negotiated. I just wanted to throw that out there. You have so many other items that are much bigger than this, 160,000, so good luck with all you're working on. And thank you. I'm so glad that you guys are doing this. |
| 02:23:09.00 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, thank you. |
| 02:23:09.93 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 02:23:14.57 | Heidi Scoble | I'm Carolyn Revelle. |
| 02:23:20.14 | Carolyn Revell | I'm Carolyn Revell, president of Sausalito Beautiful. Can you hear me? Yes, we can. Thank you. As you continue to review the city manager's budget, Sausalito Beautiful would like to advocate for funding to maintain our parks and major green spaces. We're delighted that the three maintenance workers plus the supervisor will be restored to full-time status in the proposed budget. but these four workers are being asked to maintain three newly renovated parks, MLK, Dunphy and Southview that are enjoying heavy use. and along with other public landscapes such as the bridgeway medians without the aid of the contracted professional services that supplemented their work pre-COVID. It's poor public policy not to maintain the assets into which public funds have been poured. According to the request from the Parks and Rec Department under a gradual return scenario, Approximately 50,000 of additional funding would pay for mowing the fields at MLK, Dunphy and Marin ship parks, tree maintenance on North Bridgeway, Downtown Bridgeway, City Hall, and the following parks, Robin Sweeney, Dunphy, Southview, Cloudview Marinship, Mary Ann Sears and Tiffany, along with fall and spring cleanups. to bring the level of service up to pre-COVID levels, which we certainly prefer to the gradual return, would require around 85,000 additional funding. And for Bonar Plaza, add 5,000 to that. In the past five years, the city of Sausalito in partnership with Sausalito Beautiful has invested in major landscape improvements. I repeat, it is poor public policy not to maintain these investments. As we've acknowledged in our earlier advocacy for tree replacement on downtown Ridgeway and Caledonia Street, Preparing a city budget requires reconciling competing priorities. Sausalito Beautiful and our many supporters believe that well-maintained trees and public landscapes are important priorities that contribute to the economic vitality and livability of our town. Thank you for consideration of our request. |
| 02:25:21.94 | Heidi Scoble | Our next group of speakers will be Tricia Smith. Sandra Bushmaker, Mary Faust, and Wendy Richards. Trisha, you've been unmuted. |
| 02:25:34.40 | Unknown | Thank you. So, I'm not going to show myself. I'm going to show Thelma and Ann Bunter. AND These gals are cars riders. So first, I think I heard some good news there. You might want to say anything, but I'm really talking about parks and rec because you know, as If people get older, their worlds get smaller. So going to the 4th of July parade, which is Mrs. Frum, is so important. And we missed it this year, holy cow. We missed it last year, we're gonna miss it this year. And we're just here to advocate for parks and rec and the special events. all the things that you know, make this, give the heart to Sausalito. So from the senior world, I'm just saying, We need it. So, thank you. |
| 02:26:36.40 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 02:26:39.26 | Sandra Bushmaker | Ms. Bushmucker, we cannot- Thank you very much. I see that. Thank you very much for all the work that staff and the citizens group that Russ Irwin represented tonight did on this benchmarking work, which is very helpful. I attended the finance committee And it was discussed there that the city manager's budget is not for, was not based on operational efficiency. And just as a global concept, I would really like to see that factored into our budget process. Now, my understanding is that This will have to come after budget approval because of time limitations. But I want to emphasize how important it is. In addition, as the previous speaker said, into maintaining what we have, we need to also be constantly looking at operational efficiency. And in adopting our new budget, I hope that becomes a policy position of this council. Thanks so much. Thank you. |
| 02:27:44.25 | Heidi Scoble | Bye. |
| 02:27:49.46 | Heidi Scoble | Mary, you've been unmuted and asked to share a video. |
| 02:27:53.77 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:27:53.78 | Mary Faust | Try. Grieving. Hello there. |
| 02:27:58.36 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 02:27:58.52 | Heidi Scoble | Yeah. |
| 02:27:59.44 | Mary Faust | Can everyone hear me? |
| 02:28:01.14 | Mary Wagner | Yes. |
| 02:28:02.49 | Mary Faust | I want to say thank you, Mayor Hoffman and to the council. members you have done an excellent job and it's going to continue it sounds like for quite a while I am speaking to Abdecade for the Park and Recreation Department and for our budget. It sounds like you are on track and you understand that we do need to replace or put back our supervisor, our event supervisor, that that's kind of key. And then the events are going to follow after that. You know, I have to say for someone, you know, that I walked through town and now I chat with all the local is I get asked, where's Jazz by the Bay? What's going on? South view, why isn't it planted? Well, that I can explain because of the drought. I want to really appreciate what you guys are doing and what your focus is on the budget and how hard your job is. This deficit spending is scary. But what I'm asking is for a leap of faith. that our revenues will come back I feel a very strong economy. Property values have increased, which will help property taxes to some degree. And I think we need to get a supervisor for events. We also need, I'm in line with Carolyn in terms of $9 million on redoing our parks. I don't want to spend that money again. I want to invest now. I want to save what we have. and I want to be able to maintain it. And we need to do that by maintenance budget and an events budget. Thank you very much for your time. |
| 02:29:47.13 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 02:29:47.15 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 02:29:47.20 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 02:29:47.50 | Heidi Scoble | you |
| 02:29:51.49 | Heidi Scoble | Andy Richards, you've been unmuted. |
| 02:30:01.53 | Wendy Richards | Thank you very much. Um... Thanks to everyone who has been working hard on this. And in particular, I would like to thank and underscore the work of Russ Irwin and his team. The benchmarking study is a serious matter. And I... urge you to take a serious second look at where we are. |
| 02:30:29.81 | Wendy Richards | Also, Now is the time. to correct the errors of the business license tax. This is the moment. to get that done. Joe Caldwell did his own benchmarking already last year and pointed out how unfair the business license tax is. and you have heard testimony time and time again. And at the late March meeting, you received several letters from Lynn Keller and a design business from Terry Neely from others. and put off that public discussion. There never was public debate that home-based businesses would be subject to a gross receipts tax. That means that, for example, that $400 for that car every month for our new city manager and those other employees, that people who work from home are paying that off the top of their gross receipts before they pay their own cars. That's just wrong. And now is the time to fix it. |
| 02:31:39.50 | Wendy Richards | I urge you to get that done. I will be there for the the finance committee meeting, I will work with all of you. The time is now. Please correct the errors and put the home-based workers back on a normal system where we can work and pay ourselves first and then pay our taxes. Thank you very much. |
| 02:32:07.97 | Heidi Scoble | Our next group of speakers will be Sybil Boutillier, J. Gabb, Morgan Pierce, Shelby Van Meter. Sybil, you've been unmuted. |
| 02:32:24.71 | Sybil Boutillier | Thank you. Good evening Mayor, City Council members, City Manager, Um, I have a couple of things I wanted to say about the budget. In the presentation we just had, not on the budget, but Mr. Irwin's presentation, I did not see any mention of age differentials between the different communities. that were compared And I think it's extremely important to remember and recognize that. South Salido. in South Salido, 40% of voting residents. These are just off the voting rolls. 40% are people age 60 and older. So this makes a big difference in What's important in this city and how people use the city and its resources. And that brings up the question of the parks. Um, the importance of the parks, and especially the importance of both program staff and maintenance staff and maintenance fund. A perfect example is the a senior fitness court and we just installed this past year Already there's some, damage it needs to be repaired and there's some equipment that hasn't even been installed yet. that the city has, but um hasn't had the staff to I'll put it into place. And especially now when Older adults are starting to feel like they can venture more outside. and want to use the parks and use the equipment and use the new bocce courts and so forth This is a time when we want to shine in these areas and provide these resources that we've already made investments in. but which we can't allow to deteriorate in the very first year. 13 minutes has elapsed. |
| 02:34:28.47 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:34:28.51 | Jill Hoffman | I do not want to. |
| 02:34:30.95 | Sybil Boutillier | So I am. |
| 02:34:35.27 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. Thank you. J. Gab, you've been unmuted. |
| 02:34:43.78 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 02:34:44.15 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. to be able to do it. |
| 02:34:48.76 | Jill Hoffman | I think, I believe J. Gab might be Jim Gabbert and If that is true, Mr. Gavard, we are not able to hear you. I believe you're still on mute. |
| 02:34:59.39 | Ian Sobieski | Yeah. |
| 02:35:03.39 | Heidi Scoble | How about we hold off on JGAB and we'll move to Morgan Pierce? Morgan, you've been unmuted and asked to share your video. |
| 02:35:13.19 | Morgan Pierce | Good evening, Madam Mayor, members of city council. It feels so odd to be on this side of the dais after so many years serving the city, but I'm happy to be here. I just have three items I'd like to share with you this evening. Thank you to Sausalito, beautiful president, Carolyn Revelle for her kind statements and sentiments regarding beautifying Sausalito. I am the freshly minted vice president serving under Ms. Revelle and her sentiments and look forward to meeting with members of the council and members of the city in hopes of continuing their efforts in maintaining Sausalito's beauty and improving it over the coming years. Secondly, I'd like to thank Russ Irwin and his team for putting together that very interesting summary on Sausalito finances and how it compares to other communities. I hope people will look at them. Thank you, thank you, Planning Commissioner Emeritus, Vicki Nichols, regarding the Planning Department. I've seen all too intimately the acute changes of city functions over the years relative to the effectiveness of the Community Development Department. When I started on the Historic Preservation Commission, formerly Historic Landmarks Board, some 12 years ago, we had a very strong team. And Lily Whirland, the community development director, was part of that team then, as was our city clerk, Heidi Scoble. And since then I've seen a, sequential degradation of the department over the years, I think it is really important that we maintain institutional knowledge because that really serves our citizens, serves our community and serves our businesses better than many of us can possibly imagine. So I fully support and encourage any methodology we can apply to regaining that institutional knowledge and creating a robust and efficient community development department. Thank you very much. |
| 02:37:19.37 | Jill Hoffman | Thanks very much. |
| 02:37:20.09 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 02:37:23.55 | Heidi Scoble | Madam Mayor, we'll pull up Jay Gavigan. And it does appear, so it was Jim Gabbert. Jim, you've been unmuted and asked to start your video. |
| 02:37:34.35 | Jim Gabbert | I don't see any video though. Where's my video? Let's see. Okay. Everybody, Jim Gabbert, I'm a chairman now of the Salcedo Chamber of Commerce. And I'd like to, first off, first time I've watched a city council meeting, |
| 02:37:39.50 | Heidi Scoble | There you go. |
| 02:37:40.38 | Unknown | you know. |
| 02:37:48.16 | Jim Gabbert | It's very professional, very well done, congratulations. And secondly, Chris Zapata, on behalf of the Salcedo Chamber of Commerce, Welcome, and as they say, and I understand it's free Spanish, Bienvenido a Sal Salito. What I'm here to talk about tonight is a very important issue to me in representing Saucedo having lived here since 1960, is, When I came to Solstitor, we were unique. We had all of the rock and roll artists from the whole country Almost the whole United States, Sausalito was the center of it. Then by the 20s, Sausalito began to lose its unique feeling and became a bedroom through San Francisco. And the pandemic has helped us. Now what Park and Rec has done with Bocce, with WAG, with all of these different events, the picnics, the Halloween, it's bringing us together. And today in the States, together is very hard. And what the park and recs department has done is incredible. I was a judge at the first WAG and... all wag since then, every time more and more and more people come. That helps Sausalito. You took bocce, it's out of control the amount of people that want to do it. And to me, I think that money for these type of events again, Jazz by the Bay. That's almost more important than paving the road because it brings Sausalito as a community. We are unique because of topography. 7000 people, cities could be spread out. But because of our topography here, we're all together and we all get to know each other. And we do all of these events that Park and Rec does. We work as a community, which is rare in the United States today. And all I can say is I would give more money to these events than less. Thank you very much. |
| 02:39:40.75 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:39:41.20 | Vicki Nichols | Thank you. |
| 02:39:41.22 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. Our next speaker will be Shelby Van Meter. Shelby you've been unmuted and asked to start your video |
| 02:40:01.48 | Heidi Scoble | Shelby, you'll need to also click on the unmute button |
| 02:40:12.25 | Unknown | There we go. We all set? Yes. Yes, we can hear you. All right, great. Good evening, Mayor of the Madam Mayor and council members and Mr. Zapata, welcome. It's wonderful to have you here. One of Cecilia Beautiful's primary purposes is to do what's possible to prevent from happening what appears to be happening in the draft 2021-22 budget. a significant reduction of funding for landscape care and maintenance. My fear is that the cycle of improvement slash dilapidation typical of past decades is about to be repeated. This is more disheartening than you can imagine. More importantly, putting beautiful still relatively new landscapes at risk is a very expensive proposition. If one were to add a carbon soft costs invested in South Dakota beautiful city landscape projects alone, the total would far exceed the $85,000 needed to bring maintenance funding back to pre-COVID levels. Add to this number of funds needed to return neglected landscapes to good health. And you're looking at an impressive figure. It only makes sense to prevent further deterioration by supplementing city labor with contracted labor I agree with Carolyn Revelle that the turning maintenance budgets is critical. If this is truly impossible, I ask that you provide outside contractor funding So at least spring and fall landscape cleanups. and two very highly visible Badly neglected sites are taken care of. in our plaza. at the North Bridgeway Park near the tunnel. Now even more blighted due to the gate six construction It looks like if this were to be the case, only $25,000 would be necessary. As you deliberate, please keep in mind that public landscapes were elevated to infrastructure status in the new general plan. approved by this council only four months ago. This designation represents critical value in the eyes |
| 02:42:17.06 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:42:19.07 | Unknown | Thank you. for all you're doing and thank you for helping keep South Ludo healthy and beautiful. Thank you. |
| 02:42:30.74 | Heidi Scoble | Our next group of speakers will be SEIU, Julie Myers, Virginia Ginny Irwin, and then Raylene Gorman. |
| 02:42:40.97 | Heidi Scoble | Julie, you've been unmuted. |
| 02:42:43.77 | Tui Taw | Hello everyone, thank you mayor and council members. I'm here to advocate for the SEIE members at Sausalito. And I just want to remind the city council members and educate the new members that there is a signed contract that restores our COLA and our 10% on July 1st. That is our MOU. The side letter that we had that had the furlough was will end on June 30th. Um, You need to understand that for members, just getting our 10% back is not enough. We've had a really tough year. We've had trouble saving money. We've had trouble putting money in our retirement. We've had trouble putting food on our table and gas in our tanks. And we expect that the COLA and the 10% are going to be restored on July 1st, as per the signed contract. I'm also here to advocate for the residents of Sausalito and just remind you how much the residents love their events. If there's anything I know, it's that residents love their events. And I've seen all of you at the events and I know that you have a great time there and it brings the community together and it connects each other. So I just want to make sure that you take into consideration that when you're thinking about funding the events for next year. Thank you. |
| 02:44:10.51 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 02:44:21.41 | Heidi Scoble | I'm not sure. |
| 02:44:22.03 | Virginia Ginny Irwin | THEIR HISTORY. |
| 02:44:22.39 | Heidi Scoble | you |
| 02:44:22.46 | Virginia Ginny Irwin | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 02:44:22.54 | Heidi Scoble | TODAY. |
| 02:44:24.68 | Virginia Ginny Irwin | Hi, good evening everyone, city council, mayor, And I'd like to say hello to our new city manager. I'm here to advocate for the parks and for the age friendly parks that were established here in Sausalito. I kind of want to pick up a little bit where Sybil left off with how important the maintenance is in a lot of the new equipment that was put up in that park. And just in general, I've had the good fortune of living in New York City. I've been close to Central Park, and in Chicago I live Right by Lincoln Park and you know, the parks really make a city. And I know you guys know that, I know you get that. and to just keep in mind that there was a calculation done that if every resident in Sausalito just gave $10, we could fully fund our parks every year. Just a thought. calculation. But again, just keeping in mind that I'm really hoping that we'll get all the funding that we need to maintain our parks and improve them. A little sidebar about the machine shop. I know that wasn't on the agenda tonight, this was from Emmett that If we do anything with that machine shop, we need to totally basically destroy it, not to study it. And he's been in the ship business. His family was ship builders. That soil is very polluted already. And to just not try to rebuild something that is just going to be a big expense to the city of Sausalito. And that's it. And thank you. Okay, thank you. |
| 02:46:18.73 | Heidi Scoble | Rayleigh and Gorham, you've been asked to be unmuted and share your video. |
| 02:46:27.64 | Unknown | Thank you so much for your dedication to our town and all of your hard work. As chair of the Parks and Recreation Commission, I'm here to advocate for the immediate return of our programming schedule, the reinstatement of our wonderful event coordinator to accomplish this, and also for the responsible allocation of funds to maintain and protect our parks, landscaping and equipment. It's very difficult to imagine going through another year without these treasured community building events, or why would you, we would even want to do so. Most of these events bring in money that help pay for themselves. The annual net cost of running these events, including the event coordinator salary comes to about $70,000 or $10 per resident. When people find out you're a Parks and Rec Commissioner, the first question they ask is, when is Jazz and Blues coming back? Fourth of July, et cetera. Most of our residents don't have front or backyards and frankly have gone a little stir crazy during the pandemic. After a year such as we've had, maintaining and supporting the Parks and Rec Department feels downright urgent. These shared spaces and festive events contribute intangibly to our quality of life and I'm sure measurably to our businesses as we attract and keep folks in town. We're blessed with stunningly beautiful parts and have rightly invested about $9 million in them in recent years. Private citizens and groups such as self-sabotable, beautiful have likewise contributed to funds to ensure their well-being of our landscaping. It would be extremely short-sighted to continue to cut the funding and maintenance of this investment. We drilled down on the $600,000 budget at our meeting last night. And this department is surprisingly financially efficient with 340K in salaries, and benefits. 225 K to instructors that actually bring in additional revenue beyond this output and a mere 10 K to cover supplies. The cost for events and maintenance is 160 K. These programs are shovel ready. If we immediately reinstate our events coordinator, we can resume Jasmine Blues by the Bay next month. I'd really love to see you all there. Thank you so much. |
| 02:48:39.26 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. Our last speaker appears to be Doreen Gennard. Doreen, you've been asked to be unmuted and start your video. |
| 02:48:53.37 | Jill Hoffman | Doreen, welcome back, but we cannot hear you. |
| 02:48:58.33 | Unknown | There I am. How's that? |
| 02:48:58.43 | Jill Hoffman | I'm not sure. Welcome. Yeah, welcome back. |
| 02:49:01.96 | Unknown | Yeah, it's good to be back here. And, um, And I want to state as a former chair of Park and Rec. that it is really important that we get our event coordinator back in her seat and ready to plan for these events. that we all love so much. We know they don't just happen in a minute. We know that it's going to take some time and it needs to be. included in this budget coming out so that we can get the show on the road and get these events back up and going. We know a lot of them pay for themselves And we know that this is something that the community needs, to bring us back together after this very difficult time. So I am speaking on behalf of all of us That is time. And thank you so much for your time. Thank you. |
| 02:49:54.98 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, is that, it looks to me like that's the last of our speakers, Madam Clerk, is that correct? |
| 02:50:01.25 | Heidi Scoble | Madam Mayor, you are correct. There are no hands raised at this time. |
| 02:50:05.14 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, then I will bring it back to the city council for Again, we're not voting on the budget tonight. We're reviewing, asking questions, giving further direction and requests for additional information. Um, council member Cleveland knows I see that your hands up, so go ahead. |
| 02:50:21.81 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Yeah, so I just had one question that was raised in public comment. So I had when I was reviewing the budget, I had reached out to Mr. Francis to ask him if the two. if the COA, I think it was 2.5% for SEIU and I think 3% for police that we agreed on a couple of years ago, were still in abeyance um under our agreements or whether they were back in force this year and he |
| 02:50:46.85 | Ian Sobieski | Thank you. |
| 02:50:47.10 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | thought that they were not and they are not in our city manager's budget from what I understand. So I just maybe, If we can't get clarity tonight, I think we really do need clarity on what our obligations are under the MOU at this point in time and what is or isn't in the budget. I also have comments, but I didn't mean to jump ahead of anyone else. |
| 02:51:09.83 | Jill Hoffman | No, that's fine, thank you. Let me ask that to our staff. our budget or finance director, interim finance director. And then I do recall that our, our city manager would like to make some, uh, ask some questions and have some comments, too. So we'll we'll start with him and then I will go into our city council comments. And... Mr. Francis, if you could, If you have the answer to that, that's fine. If not, then we can talk about that at the Finance Committee meeting. |
| 02:51:47.94 | Unknown | There you go. the So, I was under the impression that the furlough went away and the 3% colo was in a band I'm checking now to see what we loaded into our salary table. And I've got a couple of text messages going out So I can't answer it right away, but I will have an answer for you. and we'll email it to everybody tomorrow. |
| 02:52:10.91 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, great. Thank you very much. And so if Um, Chris Zapata, if you're on. our city manager. |
| 02:52:20.80 | Chris Zapata | Am I on? |
| 02:52:21.84 | Jill Hoffman | Yes, you are on it. |
| 02:52:22.60 | Chris Zapata | And |
| 02:52:23.48 | Jill Hoffman | Yeah. |
| 02:52:25.03 | Chris Zapata | Great, thank you, Mayor. Certainly thank everybody for their work. Yeah. Lots of work done. Feels like I jumped in at the tail end of a marathon. But I have a few questions, a few thoughts, and I'll get with Charlie and bring them to the council at the next meeting. Obviously the B of A lease revenue of $160,000 is a question that I had as well as the resident. I need to know where the American Rescue Plan money is in the budget because that's about I can't seem to find it, but that doesn't mean it isn't there. I'm looking at the workers' comp expenses, and I need a conversation around that. And then certainly a Measure O report, if that's part of a legal, ballot measure and hasn't been done, that report needs to be gotten to the community quickly and then the EDA liaison That should be filled very quickly. And my initial thought is it should be me. So the other things that I want to go into that are much deeper are Thank you. Our pension story here needs to be told. It needs to go back 20 years and look 20 years forward. because as people know, a reform act in 2013 that has changed the calculation even though the goalposts have been moving for the last three years, but we need to show the community how we got here. And what we're going to get out of this because there is, I will question in my mind about pension obligation bonds. I've heard them, I've seen them. I'm not so sure I like them, but I'm willing to listen to them. But I say that going forward, so there are no surprises to the council, the community and Charlie and his team because I think about the risk involved with pension obligation bonds and it brings to mind certain cities in California that use those and fail. So I understand interest rates are low. I understand there's a short term game. but there certainly is risk and you do keep, debt on the books with that it's not like you get rid of debt so I want to make sure that the community understands I'm watching that, the council understands I'm watching that. And again, thank you to everybody, especially the residents that took the time to listen to the presentation through the past three, six, four, five months. |
| 02:54:29.89 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, thank you. Thank you for those comments. and insights. And so, okay, so let's go to council member comments and direction in the context of we'll be back here in a couple weeks to finalize hopefully our budget so Anybody want to kick us off or? I'm happy to. So, Okay, all stars. As a member, no surprise, as a member of the finance committee, Um, Clearly, you know, we, I support the the post-COVID I'm not sure. course of action as the most conservative and course of action and cautious course of action knowing that knowing that we can pivot and add things in. pretty swiftly in the way that this budget has been presented and structured. So I thank all of you. our interim finance director, and our finance staff and our interim city manager, Marsha Raines, for their tremendous effort to put together this, very lucid I think budget with options scenarios that can be adjusted as we move forward, which is I think what we all envision we're going to do. So the question is, where are we going to start? what point are we going to start at? and how are we going to move forward with those adjustments? Those are my comments. And, uh, And then, with, with, the addition of the other direction that we've given and the questions that have been raised by the other council members as we move forward through the finance committee and then for our next meeting. Anyway, okay, who wants to go next? |
| 02:56:08.12 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Thank you. I'll go, Mayor. |
| 02:56:09.59 | Jill Hoffman | I'm sorry. |
| 02:56:11.88 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | So yeah, I wanna add my thanks to our former city manager, our interim finance director, all of the staff who work so hard on this budget and to the finance committee. who pulled this together, you know, really amazing work. And And I understand it's difficult for the city manager and staff to recommend that we spend from reserves, I have to say, if there is ever a time to spend reserves it's this year as we come out of COVID and I am willing to do some cautious additional spending from our reserves in order to achieve some really key objectives. And I think a couple of members of our community said this much more eloquently than I ever could. but it's about the sense of belonging. It's about the being together. It's about coming back as a community emotionally as well as financially. So I think, We owe that to our residents. It's been a very long year. I got to be mayor during the year of COVID and You know, it was a really tough year financially and emotionally for a lot of people. |
| 02:57:16.82 | Unknown | you know, |
| 02:57:21.44 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | I would like to see a budget that reflects much more of the coming back from the gradual reopening scenario. And, Mr. Francis had a slide that was labeled sort of customized scenarios, but it actually either I don't know why, but it really reflected almost exactly where I would come out on the gradual recovery scenarios. Number one, I do not see how we get through this year without outsourcing our financial management and administrative services. The city manager's budget does not have us doing that. So that would mean we would immediately lose Mr. Francis and his consulting services. So number one, we have to bring that back. And Second, We've heard a lot about a recreation and park programming And, you know, towards my comments about that being part of the community, investment and just some of the great comments we've heard tonight and in writing. I think we have to do the COVID recovery scenario for Rec Park. I know two of our council members are going to dive into that. So I'll look forward to their recommendation, knowing what's in that COVID recovery budget, most specifically our recreation and program manager, I think we have to bring that back. um, Secondly, or next are building library planning and zoning. So those were all listed on that slide. I think we are in some. serious staff deficiency in those areas. and the COVID recovery scenario doesn't bring everything back to pre-COVID, which I don't think we can afford to do. but it is a gradual bringing back of some really key staff that we have been missing. And our staff has been so overworked this year that I am really worried we've lost some key staff and I really want to stop that, any additional loss in staff. So in those key areas, again, it's shown on that slide, The only thing I wasn't sure about and I forgot to ask a question until I heard the comments from Sausalito beautiful is if we have recreation and park back at pre at Sorry. these names of the scenarios are kind of awkward, but the recovery from COVID, whether that includes the moderate additional landscaping plan that Sausalito Beautiful was requesting. And if it doesn't, I would also recommend that. So, um, You know, I recognize that this is a tough ask. It's $1.2 million into our reserves. I did ask Mr. Francis tonight and he said that was still a sufficient level of reserves remaining for adequate risk analysis, and I trust his judgment on that. Um, But we are using our American recovery funds for not for one time uses necessarily. but for some operating expenditures. So that's, you know, that's a tough place to be. So we do need to look at structural reform and we do need to look at additional you know, efficiencies that can be gotten through, shared services and through other innovative systems, but I think we can really dive into that in the next six months. with our new city manager on board. and Mr. Francis fully funded with the additional administrative expenses. On the other options, the pension, obligation bonds. I agree with the recommendation to to study that, to take that deep dive in the next couple of months and see if that's something that would work for our town. And I would definitely like to look at the OPEB asset in kind. I think we need to be really creative and looking for revenue. Um, And then I also agree with one of the public comments that we really need to look at the B of A and if there's a way that we can speed up make that $160,000 number real. As our city manager just mentioned, you know, it's a number that has some questions. the faster that we can go on our RFI and leasing that up, I think. the better. Um, So, you know, it sounds like there might be, maybe at the end we can talk about this. It sounds like there might be some, you know, maybe we won't have consensus somewhere we want to go with this budget tonight. And so I guess I would wonder if we should. take that next finance commitment. You know, we only have one more full city council meeting, but maybe we should use that next finance committee meeting as a meeting of the whole We'll see where it goes, but that would be a suggestion. And then lastly, I just want to say, concur with the comments on measure O. that the several I think it was Mr. Pseudo-Mate. So thanks, those are my comments. |
| 03:02:31.82 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, thanks. Who wants to go next? Go ahead Ian or council member Sobieski. |
| 03:02:37.59 | Ian Sobieski | You know, I was just, when I underlined what Susan just said, There's only one more meeting before we have to approve the budget and, um, in some form or fashion, there's a trade-off that's been articulated. I think the vice mayor made it, and a few public speakers made it between budget allocations and operational efficiency changes. uh, It's sort of a, that's a dance and the one is more timely than, well, they're both timely, but one's immediate and the other is timely. uh, and I don't know that we can feel good that we've done everything, we just have one more public meeting to sort of underscore the end. So we're outsourcing a little bit of some of that kind of work to |
| 03:03:16.12 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:03:20.27 | Ian Sobieski | Melissa, I, in regards to Parks and Rec, along with the Commission, But then that's just two of us, not all of us. And I think across some of these categories, we may want to actually do some trading off and and collaboration with one another. with our thinking. The more meetings, the better. We have one more scheduled, maybe if we have two, that'll help and so if we have use the finance committee as that opportunity. I would be in favor of that. or, Well, it was another special reading So. That's it. |
| 03:04:00.36 | Jill Hoffman | OKAY, THANK YOU. Council member, but |
| 03:04:06.03 | Melissa Blaustein | or Vice Mayor Kelman? I feel like Vice Mayor Kellman is really good at rounding it out. She's really good at the closer. So, I mean, I'm happy to go. You can go. I take notes. There you go. That's why your closers are so good, Vice Mayor Kellman. Okay, well, I'm happy to go ahead and make some comments. And again, I just want to reiterate, I'm really appreciative of the work that staff and that finance interim finance director Francis and of course the mayor and vice mayor the finance committee and also the community members who put together the benchmarking report did to make this process as I think it was just really clear where the money was coming from and going to, and it was one of the most clear budget presentations that I've seen. And it was really helpful to me as a newer member to the council to be able to be so to go through this process. So I really appreciate that. this is a really difficult time for our community and for our budget. And I think we all know we have to make some tough choices that we would prefer to not have to be making. And we would love to be able to return every department to a higher operational efficiency, but with the same amount of funding at the pre COVID levels. But we have to anticipate that there will be further economic challenges that we might not be able to predict based on some I'm a little concerned about some potential national trends. I want to make sure we have enough reserves, but that's why I've asked interim finance director, and I appreciate that council member Cleveland knows again tonight asked about where can we responsibly make some changes to a gradual return and some to a post COVID that would still put us in a place where we're balancing risk in a responsible way. Because I think it's really critical that we return as much as possible while realizing that there is some serious risk here. And the idea of, completely losing our interim finance director while we try to solve some of these challenges because we're unable to budget for it is something that really concerns me. So I would echo council member Cleveland Knowles' comments the approach that actually was the the, um, sample slide, but I really appreciated the sample slide for the same reasons that were articulated that we heard so much from the community about park and rec and how critical that is and how critical these events are to the fabric of our community. It's what makes us who we are. We heard that from so many folks and it's been really great to see so much public comment and so many letters about how much jazz and blues by the bay means to so many of our residents. And so I think we need to really think about returning to a gradual COVID return for the park and rec admin. library building and planning obviously we all have seen those issues and and for zoning and some things that we absolutely need to consider if we do that is we really need to pursue aggressively grant funding i think it's really clear that there are |
| 03:07:03.20 | Tui Taw | to be. Thank you. |
| 03:07:04.88 | Melissa Blaustein | holes in our budget that we won't be able to fill unless we apply for grants. And I think we're also seeing that the state is doing quite a bit, an unprecedented level of trying to provide grants to smaller communities. And we're also gonna see potentially more grant opportunities the recovery dollars and perhaps through an infrastructure plan for shovel ready projects. So we need to be thinking about and looking at that, which is why it's so critical that we have the admin support that we need to be ready to apply for those grants and programs as quickly as possible. And I think also it's really clear and looking at the budget that we really need to make some serious structural changes and we need to consider things like consolidation. And again, I would say I really want us to look at the budget as a reflection of our values and think about that and look back at, are we making the right decisions for each respective department? And why are we continuing to cut departments like park and rec, but not cutting departments like public safety. So these are things that I really think we need to consider |
| 03:07:53.81 | Unknown | and |
| 03:08:04.24 | Melissa Blaustein | um, I also would consider pursuing the option one of studying the pensions. And again, just further support for why we need somebody like Charlie Francis around. And I think it would be really critical for us to have another meeting before we pass the budget as a group, because it seems like there's quite a bit more that we need to discuss and we've only had 20 special meetings this year, and I just think One more adds onto the fund. So again, thanks everybody. for your hard work and those are my comments. |
| 03:08:33.45 | Janelle Kellman | I thought that was an excellent framework. I barely have anything to say left, but I thought that was a good way to tee it up, which is that we do have these operational efficiencies and opportunities. And it sounds like, I think I'm hearing collectively where there's some hybrid post COVID gradual return scenario. We don't quite know exactly where, to go um you know one place that we didn't talk about tonight was dpw um and i think that warrants further review i mentioned the landscape maintenance where that budget sits i'm not trying to take away landscape maintenance budget per se from parks and rec but if it's more efficient and we can save money and and do better and respond to some of the comments we had tonight around taking care of our landscaping and our trees and our plants, then we should take this opportunity to do that. We probably want to look at the sewer fund and understand that better because we're looking at a consolidation. It may not feel like it's an immediate, but I think maybe at the next meeting, we should get a report out from that committee and understand what their constraints are there. I'm looking at things like $75,000 for general plan implementation. What does that mean exactly? Is that something that needs to happen in the next six months? Can it happen next year? Is it a study? Is it an actual sewer project or a groundwater monitoring project? Because if it's 75K for a study and we're trying to balance the budget now, and we hear from the community how much we want to have, you know, full service back on Parks and Rec. We need to look at that trade-off. Similarly, we need to have that CIP program and more information about that in front of us as we're looking at the budget. And I'll also mention, you know, we had some significant liability around the landslide. And I want to make sure that that area is shored up before we start to look at our reserves and take money from that area. You heard my comments on community development. I'll just repeat them on the EDAC side of things. I'll just ask the city manager maybe take a look at that request. And $180,000 to streamline permitting. I'd like to get that in the community development and see if we can do something more holistic for the community and really streamline permitting for both our residents and our businesses and use some lessons learned. I don't know if that is possible within that context, 180K is a lot of money for us this year. Finances, to my council member said it already, we need to talk about whether we're going to outsource or not some good arguments for why we would, particularly where we are right now. We should look at the BLT, the business license tax. We said we would, so I want to make sure that we do in fact do that. And in light of the pension and some of the comments from one of the council members, we should review that reserve policy. and see if that's adequate and accurate for us right now. Maybe we look at that under a couple different scenarios. And then the last thing I'll just take a carry over from the benchmarking from tonight, you saw our revenues were actually quite strong. Our expenses, however, seem to be quite high. And I noticed that general government which is admin plus finance plus non-governmentals over six million dollars so i'd like to get some granularity around that and understand why it's so much higher than other communities um because again that's a pretty large bucket of funds and if it's well allocated then then so be it that's great but uh if that's a place for us to find money i and move that over to some of the resources we've talked about tonight i'd like to do that um and councilman boston you have my full support for funding grants i know the mayor's already been working on that so great idea Thank you. |
| 03:11:53.41 | Jill Hoffman | it's a good thing. |
| 03:11:53.64 | Janelle Kellman | Thank you. |
| 03:11:53.71 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. Okay, thank you. Okay, with that, I'm going to ask our interim finance director, Mr. Francis, Do you need any further direction from the council given to the, voluminous notes and direction you've been given, or do you have any questions for us? Either you or the city manager Zapata. |
| 03:12:17.74 | Jill Hoffman | I'm not hearing you, Mr. Francis. Does anybody else hear Mr. Francis? |
| 03:12:23.81 | Unknown | No more questions from me. I'll regroup with the City Manager tomorrow and we'll put together a plan of action Parks and Rec Commission Finance Committee meeting, checking on the COLA increase and making some of the other adjustments that were mentioned tonight. |
| 03:12:42.90 | Jill Hoffman | Oh, thanks. Thanks very much. I did during the meeting send a message to our Madam Clerk to ask for She was she or anybody was taking notes. of the directions that were given by the city council so I want to make sure that we are addressing those at our finance committee. And Mr. Zapata, do you have anything for us? |
| 03:13:01.21 | Chris Zapata | Just one question. If you're going to try to have another special meeting before the regular meeting. How does that happen here? |
| 03:13:09.59 | Jill Hoffman | Ha ha. Um, Thank you for asking that. That's an excellent question. Um, our clerk will pull pull the council to see a time. that might be available, that we're all available. And then- |
| 03:13:24.09 | Ian Sobieski | Great. |
| 03:13:25.29 | Jill Hoffman | Yeah. but I'm fairly confident. I think we're gonna be so great at the finance committee meeting. And I don't know if we're going to be there in the meeting, but we'll see. Okay. So then I'm going to close this item then and we're gonna move on to... our next item on the agenda, which is Item 7A. A very exciting machine shop once again, back to the city council meeting. for this item. we had a very excellent staff report on this that included All I think of the four prior, prior city council meetings we've had on the machine shop this has been a matter of for about the last 10 years or maybe even longer in front of the city council. So anyway, Um... It looks like Mr. Is it Haas is going to give us our. |
| 03:14:19.49 | David (GSA Director) | Close enough, Hase Mademir. Thank you. |
| 03:14:23.05 | Jill Hoffman | I'm sorry. |
| 03:14:23.12 | Vicki Nichols | Okay, go ahead. |
| 03:14:24.27 | David (GSA Director) | Well, I'll just, Aaron Cullen is the project manager for this, so I just wanted to give some introductory remarks. Aaron, do you want to go to the second slide? Thank you, Madam Mayor and members of the council for allowing GSA federal agency to present to you this evening. And I'm the director of the Real Proper Utilization Disposal Division. We and my team are based out of San Francisco, so we're not on East Coast time, so we're all on the same time zone as you. Enjoying the comments that your folks have made about your city. We are locals here and we do care about our process and how it interfaces with the cities. So during this presentation, we'll cover one slice of the disposal process, the federal disposal process that's laid out by law. We've already completed two steps, which is the federal screening, as well as the property was determined unsuitable for homeless use. So those are the two first phases. So today we're going to be talking about the public benefit conveyance process. and Aaron will drive us through that. But we're here as a resource for Aaron and the team and for the city council on the questions. So without further ado, I'm gonna go ahead and turn it over to my branch chief Thuy for just introduce yourself. |
| 03:15:48.03 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, thank you. |
| 03:15:51.41 | Tui Taw | Good evening. Thank you so much for having us here. My name is Tui Taw, the branch of EPA in San Francisco to support the project. And Erin, then this is |
| 03:16:02.73 | Tui Taw | Thank you. |
| 03:16:03.04 | Virginia Ginny Irwin | Thank you. |
| 03:16:07.68 | Virginia Ginny Irwin | I can turn over to Chelsea. |
| 03:16:13.82 | Chelsea (GSA) | Hey everyone, thank you for having us. I'll be working with Erin on the disposal of this project. So feel free to reach out to me or Aaron at any time if you have any questions. Thank you. |
| 03:16:26.05 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 03:16:26.07 | Chelsea (GSA) | Thank you. |
| 03:16:26.44 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 03:16:29.60 | Aaron Cullen | Good evening, my name is Aaron Cullen and I am the Roxy Specialist and Project Manager for the Sauce Udums Machine Shop. |
| 03:16:30.16 | Chelsea (GSA) | My name was Aaron. |
| 03:16:30.95 | Jill Hoffman | L.M. |
| 03:16:35.49 | Aaron Cullen | And I will be guiding you through this presentation as we move forward. Thank you. |
| 03:16:41.68 | Unknown | you |
| 03:16:41.73 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you very much. |
| 03:16:42.24 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:16:44.95 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 03:16:44.97 | Unknown | It's like |
| 03:16:49.68 | Unknown | up. |
| 03:16:52.08 | Aaron Cullen | So for our agenda, we'll first look at roles and responsibilities of all the relevant stakeholders. And then we'll go into the general overview of the public benefit conveyance process. And then we'll look at the various public benefit conveyances that GSA has identified Thank you. Um, for this screening process and then we'll go to any questions. for roles and responsibilities. for you all the constituents in the city council and Madam Mayor. You guys are the potential acquirers of this property and control the land use and future permitting. Veterans Affairs is the current land holding agency and they retain protection and maintenance responsibilities during the disposal process. The sponsoring agencies review applications and in some cases execute the conveyance documents for the public benefit conveyance process. The State Historic Preservation Office, known as the SHPO, GSA, we will consult as part of the historic consultation process. This property is a historic, it's on a national registry of historic buildings. So we do have to consult them. And then GSA, we manage the disposal process, coordinate with stakeholders, and make final disposal decisions. So the public benefit conveyance and screening. So properties are made available for appropriate public use based upon highest and best use. and it's always made available for negotiated sale, which is typically at the fair market value of the property. The screening process lasts 30 days and state and local public agencies need to express interest within that 30-day window if they want to obtain the property through any of the published public benefit conveyances in the posting. And as of right now, GSA plans to screen the property as of 28 June, 2021. So the proposed PDCs, public benefit conveyances for the Sausalito machine shop. So under the federal law, state and local government bodies and certain nonprofit institutions may require surplus real property at a discount of up to 100% for various types of public use. So listed here are the different types of public minute conveyances, and highlighted in yellow are the ones that we see would be the highest and best use for the Sausalito Machine Shop, and that's what we will be covering. So we'll start with negotiated sales. So under the statute, the property is screened and surplus screening for acquisition by state and local governments to serve a public purpose, including economic development. Generally, there are no restrictions, but might include historic or other environmental restrictions. It requires the payment of the fair market value. We GSA would manage the appraisal and negotiations of the negotiated sale. and if the property is worth over $100,000, which this property likely is, it would need congressional approval through the Oversight Committee. A example of a negotiated sale is the former Delano transmitting station in Delano, California. This was roughly a 800 acre property and it sold for $5 million. The city of Delano initially was interested in the property as an airport PVC, but decided to go a different route and do the negotiated sale route. Next, we'll talk about the educational use. So under the statute, the property is made available for schools, classrooms, and other educational uses to public bodies are tax supported educational institutions. GSA will screen a property through the PDC process, and the Department of Education will review the application, execute the deed, and is responsible for compliance. This PPC is discounted up to 100% of their market value and restricted to a 30-year educational use. An example of the educational use PVC, so a portion of the former Naval Air Station here in Alameda, California. This was approximately six acres. The Alameda Unified School District initially applied for childcare, a Head Start educational use, but due to site constraints, switched to a bus maintenance yard. The Department of Education approved the PUC application, but it was not at 100% discount. Education and GSA agreed to an 80% discount since the property did not directly serve educational use. Next we'll talk about the public health use under the statute. Through this PDC, it has to serve some form of public health research and drug rehabilitation use and others by a public body or tax supported medical institution. GSA would screen it through the PVC process, and the Department of Health and Human Services will review the application, execute the deed, and is responsible for compliance. The discount is up to 100% of the fair market value with a 30-year time restriction. An example of the public health use, so the former Navy excess property in Norco, California. The city of Norco was a provider of water and wastewater services to the Navy Surface Warfare Center. The Navy reported a 13.33 acre site, excess to their needs. Norco sought a PPC for this property to gain access to the existing well and to construct a potable water treatment facility. Health and Human Services approved the transfer at 100% discount for this purpose. Next we'll talk about public parks and recreation. |
| 03:22:27.97 | Ian Sobieski | Thank you. |
| 03:22:27.99 | Unknown | Bye. |
| 03:22:30.82 | Aaron Cullen | Under the statute, the property, including buildings, fixtures, and equipment, is made available to public bodies for park and recreational use. The Department of Interior and National Park Services reviews the application, executes the deed, and is responsible for compliance. This is discounted up to 100% of the fair market value and has a restriction in perpetuity of the land. An example of this is the former USGS lab in Haleco, Nevada. So approximately one acre facility that housed geological monitoring equipment, surrounded on three sides by city parks, assigned to NPS2D to the local government for the expansion of the public park. And this was 100% discount conveyance. Next, we'll discuss correctional facilities. So under the statute, the surplus property is made available for correctional facility use and for the care of rehabilitation of criminal offenders to a public body. The Department of Justice reviews the application, GSA would execute the deed and is responsible for compliance. This is discounted at 100% of the fair market value with restrictions of perpetuity for correctional use. So an example of the correctional facility PBC is the former Air Force property in North Bend, Oregon. So the Air Force reported the 56 acre site excess. The state of Oregon needed additional capacity for convicted adults and a minimum security facility. The Department of Justice approved the application at 100% and GSA executed the deed back in 1990. Next we'll talk about the law enforcement PBC. So under the statute, the property is made available for law enforcement use to a public body. The Department of Justice will review the application, GSA would execute the deed and has compliance responsibilities. This PPC is discounted at 100% of the fair market value with restrictions for perpetuity for law enforcement use. An example of law enforcement use PVC is the Federal Shaver Building in Oregon City, Oregon. So the building was constructed in 1966. The property consisted of 0.97 acres, of office buildings and the property was conveyed in 2004. in the Clackamas County to the Clackamas County Sheriff's Office. The building is currently utilized by 38 Sheriff's offices, employees, and houses several units of the organization. |
| 03:24:58.09 | Jim Gabbert | Thank you. |
| 03:24:58.34 | Aaron Cullen | units are part of the Family Justice Center named a safe place established in October 2012. |
| 03:24:58.51 | Jim Gabbert | Thank you. |
| 03:25:06.46 | Aaron Cullen | Next we'll talk about the Emergency Management PVC. So under this statute, the property is made available for emergency management response, including fire to a public body. The federal emergency, or FEMA, supplies and reviews the application GSA executes the deed and has compliance responsibility. This is discounted act. 100% of the fair market value with use restricted for perpetuity. An example of the emergency management PBC. So the former Navy and Marine Corps Reserve Center in Los Angeles, California, this was conveyed in 2015 to the city at 100%, renamed to the Frank Hotchkiss Memorial Training Center and managed by the Los Angeles Fire Department. The demands include both an environmental land use covenant not residential child care, our hospital, et cetera. and has a historic covenant that runs with the land. Next, we'll talk about the historic monument. Under the statute, a historic property listed are eligible for National Registry or made available to a public body. As we said before, this property is currently listed. may generate revenue if proceeds used for the preservation are uses compatible for preservation. The National Park Service approves a plan of use and responsible for compliance. GSA executes the deed, including any preservation covenants, agreed with the SHPO. |
| 03:26:20.09 | Unknown | National |
| 03:26:29.96 | Aaron Cullen | And this is discounted at 100% of the fair market value and restricted to historic mining use in perpetuity. An example of this is the former federal building in Las Vegas, Nevada. So this building was constructed in 1913 on 2.1 acres consisting of 36,000 square feet. listed on the Magister registry reported exits due to completion of a new GSA building in Los in the area. The mayor was interested in the cultural venue for Las Vegas history. So the National Park Services approved the plan and GSA conveyed the property in 2002. is now known as the MAMI Museum, which opened in late 2012 after $43 million of investment and is ran by a nonprofit organization. So that concludes the meat of our presentation. So now we will field questions from the council and of work. |
| 03:27:28.04 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, thanks very much for that comprehensive review. I'm wondering... Is that a bear? |
| 03:27:33.58 | Lily Whalen | I'm wondering. |
| 03:27:34.10 | Ian Sobieski | Thank you. and then, |
| 03:27:34.30 | Lily Whalen | Thank you. |
| 03:27:34.32 | Ian Sobieski | Thank you. |
| 03:27:35.43 | Jill Hoffman | I'm so sorry. |
| 03:27:35.50 | Lily Whalen | So sorry to interrupt you, Madam Mayor. We had some technical difficulties and my computer restarted right before this item came online. So I had a brief presentation to kick off this item before. GSA staff gave their presentation Would you like me to give some context to the background of this site? for the council and the community. |
| 03:27:59.85 | Jill Hoffman | Yes, I would, thanks. THE END OF |
| 03:28:01.51 | Lily Whalen | Okay. |
| 03:28:01.57 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 03:28:01.61 | Lily Whalen | Thank you. Right, so I will... sharing my screen here. |
| 03:28:19.72 | Lily Whalen | Okay, great. And I think everyone can see my screen. Good evening, everyone. I'm Lily Whalen. I'm the Community Development Director. I'll be brief walking through this presentation here The purpose of the item tonight is to discuss the city's interest in pursuing acquisition of the machine shop at 25 Liberty ship way. And I do have and lips there. |
| 03:28:44.88 | Melissa Blaustein | here. |
| 03:28:45.57 | Lily Whalen | Thank you. |
| 03:28:49.23 | Lily Whalen | Yeah. So, We have the presentation from GSA staff. We'll have a presentation from me giving you the overview of the site. We'll then have questions from the council, public comment, And then council have an opportunity to ask questions. Sorry, the council will have the opportunity to then have a discussion regarding whether or not the council's interested in potentially pursuing acquisition of the machine shop. And if so, staff is requesting the council provide direction on next steps, including proposed community engagement schedule, potential uses for the site and environmental testing. Briefly, the site overview, the machine shop is a two-story, almost 38,000 square foot woodpost and beam. industrial building clad in plywood sheathing and capped by an undulating bowstring truss roof. It was initially completed in August of 1942. and is closely associated with the production of Liberty ships and tankers during World War II. The machine shop is an increasingly rare example of an industrial building built for one of the emergency yards constructed in the San Francisco Bay Area after Pearl Harbor. It sits on a site in the Marin ship in Sausalito with a 13 thousand square foot surface parking lot and a 2,500 square foot Butler building. And the building is listed on the National Register of Historic Places. |
| 03:30:17.92 | Lily Whalen | The site is about 1.72 acres and is owned by the federal government, as you know. And currently the Department of Veterans Affairs or VA is in the planning and due diligence stages for disposal by the US General Services Administration or GSA to transfer the property from federal ownership to new ownership. The machine shop is listed on both the local register and the national register of historic places. However, the current condition of the property is very poor. The roof is significantly damaged and a partial roof collapse occurred in uh, 2018. Stabilization work to protect the building began in October of 2020. by the VA. And roof and wall stabilization, in addition to the otherization is planned by the VA. according to the head determination that you have in your attachment three. The building has severe damage to the roof walls and flooring. lead-based paint, asbestos, mold, PCV throughout. |
| 03:31:23.40 | Lily Whalen | These two photos were taken from the interior of the structure, roughly from the same location, however taken almost 10 years apart. you can see in the right photo the partial roof collapse and the general deterioration of the interior of the building |
| 03:31:42.50 | Lily Whalen | This slide shows a very abbreviated chronology of events from when the VA procured the machine shop from the GSA in 2006. The VA's plans for the site did not come to fruition. since the city subsequently listed the structure on the local historic register and was eventually successful after much hard work for many volunteers, elected and appointed officials and city staff, and placing it on the National Register of Historic Places in 2016. From 2015 through 2019, the VA indicated that they were pursuing a historic reuse pilot program, which utilizes Section 111 of the National Historic Preservation Act to allow the federal agency to lease the property to a third party. who would fully rehabilitate and adaptively reuse the building for a new use. Subsequently, those plans also did not come to fruition. In 2019, as you know, there was partial roof collapse. And then late last year, the city was informed by the VA of plans to divest itself of the historic machine shop. So this was the slide where I was going to introduce the GSA here, but we, We took care of that. So I'm going to move swiftly along. to our staff recommendation slide here. So issuance of the notice of surplus from the GSA kicks off a 30-day timeline for the city to indicate interest in acquiring the property and for what purpose. The GSA has agreed to hold issuance of the notice of surplus until the end of June so that the city council could dialogue with each other and hear from the community regarding their preferences for the future of the site. in order to facilitate the broadest amount of public input and review in the shortest period of time. The city has to respond to the notice of surplus. The council may consider requesting as many interested boards and commissions For example, the planning commission to start preservation commission, parks and rec commission, et cetera, to discuss their vision for the site at their meetings in June and report back to the council with great immediacy. So with that, staff is recommending that the council receive this oral presentation from city staff and GSA staff. to confirm that the council is interested in potentially pursuing acquisition of the machine shop and if so to provide direction on next steps including the proposed community engagement schedule. potential uses for the site and also environmental testing. And that concludes the staff presentation. We're available along with GSA staff for questions. |
| 03:34:15.46 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, thanks very much. I'm gonna turn the meeting from this point over, just on this item over to the vice mayor. I have a conflict as I live within a certain number of feet to the building. At this point, I will turn this item for the remainder of this item over to the vice mayor for further. shepherding in this item. THANK YOU. |
| 03:34:35.91 | Janelle Kellman | Thank you. |
| 03:34:35.94 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 03:34:37.02 | Janelle Kellman | Thank you, Mayor Hoffman. And thank you, Director Whalen and to the GSA. Let's just hear from members of the council. Does anybody have any questions? questions of staff. or of GSA to start us off. |
| 03:34:49.65 | Ian Sobieski | I guess I just had one question. Aaron mentioned that he expects the building to be worth more than $100,000. And I was wondering, given the uncertainty of the toxic condition of the soil and the relative age of the last time that that's been assessed. whether he and GSA can be truly confident that the liability of a, remediation effort wouldn't outweigh the value of the land and building combined. and at the net actual value of the property might be less than $100,000. or it could even be negative. So just curious what his reaction to that. |
| 03:35:28.20 | David (GSA Director) | IAN, thanks for the question. I'll step in here for Aaron because we had a conversation about this. uh, Our view of the property, since even with its condition, would be likely in excess of $100,000. We all know California real estate prices are what they are. Even a likely developer would probably price it at that amount, even with all of the conditions. But that said, we are going to go ahead and move forward with at least a preliminary negotiated, say a preliminary appraisal if you will just to get a range of estimate of what that is to if you will confirm or if our suspicions are true this will help confirm that so |
| 03:36:17.14 | Ian Sobieski | David, would that additional appraisal investigation include? doing some new environmental assessments, including digging a few oracles in the ground. |
| 03:36:26.96 | David (GSA Director) | Oh. this point i don't believe so the our intent is we think we have a fully protective circle covenant for industrial use the property would be restricted for that use so it would eliminate the residential component so the appraiser would be provided with certain assumptions to come up with that value based on the current documents that we have, the review of the property, look at the current condition, and then just the overall market. |
| 03:37:01.66 | Ian Sobieski | Just the last question in that direction. Then you're saying the environmental assessment would rely upon the previous environmental assessment, which I think was done in 2008. |
| 03:37:10.55 | Aaron Cullen | Thank you. |
| 03:37:11.68 | David (GSA Director) | That's correct. |
| 03:37:14.48 | Aaron Cullen | I'll actually jump in here. It was actually done in 2016. That's our latest environmental report. to a little bit more recently. |
| 03:37:25.30 | Janelle Kellman | Other questions for GSA? Council Member Cleveland Knowles? |
| 03:37:28.54 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Yeah, Vice Mayor, I had some questions kind of along those lines. And I just wanted a little additional clarification from what was just said. If I understand correctly, in GSA's estimation, the environmental review has cleared it for industrial use with no further remediation needed or is that not what, what I just heard? |
| 03:37:56.62 | David (GSA Director) | Uh, The property is safe for human health and environment with a covenant placed upon the property for that restricts it to industrial use. So there is still some existing contamination in the soil, but if it's undisturbed or no pathways created, then the public health and environment would not be impacted. And this was a condition of the conveyance that was done in 2006 from the Army Corps to the VA. |
| 03:38:27.25 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Okay, thank you. And then just one additional question. I think I read this in your materials, but and I have to apologize. My Internet cut out in the middle towards the end of Mr. Collins presentation, but so if you answered if you said this, tonight, I apologize. if we did acquire the property through this process, the, we would be restricted to use the property for the public use. that we stated we wanted it for at the outset, is that correct? And how long would that restriction be imposed. |
| 03:39:05.23 | David (GSA Director) | Well, Aaron laid out several different options, and all of them do have some use restrictions depending on which path you pick. Could be educational use, could be public health. Those two conveyances are only 30 years. park. correctional are all in perpetuity. But the sponsoring agency, Oh. arrangement that we have when they apply and, you know, select an applicant for the property, they're pretty strict on what the uses are. It's not, we thinking about it and switch to some other use. It is pretty much needs to be somewhat convinced that it is that If it's an educational VPC, it's education. The two alternatives, the negotiated sale has no use restrictions. So that allows the city potentially other uses. It could change over time. um because you would own the property and it outright and paid for that privilege. historic monument. is something that could probably change over time. Whole goal is to historic preservation of a property that's eligible or listed on the historic register. And that would provide some flexibility if circumstances change. Yeah, that is helpful. |
| 03:40:27.45 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Thank you, yes. Thank you very much, and thank you for the presentations. Appreciate it. |
| 03:40:32.70 | Janelle Kellman | Council Member Blasstein, any questions for staff for GSA at this time? No. |
| 03:40:37.00 | Melissa Blaustein | questions. |
| 03:40:37.32 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Thank you. |
| 03:40:37.34 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:40:38.10 | Ian Sobieski | I have one more guest there, Vice Mayor. which is just in response to Susan's questions about the, again, cleaning it through industrial usage. that's the basis upon which you'd be assessing its value but in fact just to be sure. Uh, GSA and the government is making no warranty about the accuracy of those claims if They turn out to be wrong. |
| 03:41:03.38 | David (GSA Director) | um, The circular warranty is different than our as is, where is provision in terms of title and condition of other property. Yes, a conveyance would be as is, where is. However, the circle warranty would provide a covenant that if in fact there were some unknown found. that I would just say, went against what our representation was at the time, then the government would have an obligation to come back and clean it up. But that obligation would be not allowed if if the entity say the city chose to do something and introduce a new use beyond the industrial covenant. And that's such as a residential or some kind of other provision that could I'm not sure. trigger a different outcome. related to the circle warranty. |
| 03:41:54.25 | Ian Sobieski | That's interesting, David. follow up with that, but I think that's a little different than what Devise Meir and I heard before. And it's kind of interesting that So just to say it again, if We purchased this building and we use it for an industrial use. Part of that use would require, say, driving a new piling in the air for the new structure there. And it turns out that we discovered that it was not there was toxic exposure that exceeded the standard for industrial use. then you're saying that the warranty from the government would and compelled the government to respond and clean it up to the level of industrial use that it was represented when transfer |
| 03:42:40.36 | David (GSA Director) | Um, I mean, I understand your question. I don't want to misspeak here. scenario that you lay out if the city is well aware and has done their own due diligence and is staying within the industrial use and understanding of where the contamination exists uh then that's then then your development would take that into account it's it's really has to do with is that there was some unknown contamination found and that's what would trigger the the comeback provision of the circle warranty So something that was unknown to you and unknown to the government. |
| 03:43:24.43 | Janelle Kellman | Okay, thank you, Councilman Sobieski. I appreciate very much where you're going with this. And just to be clear, David, you're talking about circle section 120H3, Is that correct for the circular warranty? |
| 03:43:36.47 | David (GSA Director) | as Madame Weissmeyer. |
| 03:43:38.14 | Janelle Kellman | Okay, and so I guess where Councilor Sobieski is going here is that, I'll just go step by step. So when we last spoke, you told us the VA was making some improvements. on the property maybe you could just give us an update on what those improvements were |
| 03:43:53.51 | David (GSA Director) | I think Aaron, do you have a little bit of update on that? |
| 03:43:58.20 | Aaron Cullen | I can provide them in writing to Lily since she is my point of contact, but nothing has changed since my last update to her. which was through email. |
| 03:44:08.63 | Janelle Kellman | Okay, so there's a mess in the question is because I'm assuming that as you told us last time, it was just to make sure sort of structurally you could enter and exit the building, but there wasn't there wasn't any changes to the foundation to the pylons to the structural integrity of the building. Is that accurate? |
| 03:44:25.28 | David (GSA Director) | That's accurate. When we toured the property a couple of months ago, this VA had stabilized the wall so they don't collapse because with the roof collapse, they had to remove the roof to, to, to, clear the debris and so they showed up a couple of walls that could collapse. But since that time, they have not done any additional stabilization or weatherization as we would hope that they would to prevent further degradation of the property. |
| 03:44:56.83 | Janelle Kellman | Okay. So then to my colleague's question, if we were to acquire the property and we discovered that there was degradation of something structural and we went ahead and replaced it and it was sort of impossible for a number of factors to determine whether it was contamination there, but we did in fact, in disturbing the soil, find contamination. the CERCLA 120H3 warranty would not apply. Is that accurate? |
| 03:45:24.08 | David (GSA Director) | Oh, the... I... Part of your question in my mind dealt with the structure itself. The 120H does not apply to that. If there's asbestos or lead-based paint on the structure, we'll just disclose that. The 120H3 has to do with the surface and potential groundwater contamination of a property. And so what VA is doing will have no impact on that warranty. It really has to do with future development. |
| 03:45:56.80 | Janelle Kellman | Okay, that's helpful. And then just a quick question for Aaron. You clarified that the most recent review was not in 2008, it was actually 2016. Was that an initial study or was that actual borings or some type of on the ground site assessment with soil testing? |
| 03:46:13.59 | Aaron Cullen | I can go back and check the document and also provide it for reference if necessary. |
| 03:46:19.44 | Ian Sobieski | in the future. |
| 03:46:19.61 | Aaron Cullen | Thank you. |
| 03:46:19.76 | Ian Sobieski | I'm pretty sure we went over this, Aaron, when we talked about this before and |
| 03:46:19.99 | Aaron Cullen | I'm sure we're going to go. |
| 03:46:27.46 | Ian Sobieski | and where the Vice President is leading is, I believe the 2008 study was the only one that had the borics. And I think that's what's pertinent to our inquiry. how recent that is. I mean, you will have groundwater changes, water table changes can affect toxicity in the soil. And so that's the thing we're concerned about, obviously, that could have an impact on the building's value. why it would be great if there was a willingness to actually do those borings again. to assess its current toxicity since now is when we're transferring the building. for somebody |
| 03:46:59.18 | Janelle Kellman | Thank you. |
| 03:46:59.22 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:46:59.24 | Janelle Kellman | Mm-hmm. Thank you. Well said, Council Members are asking. Okay, well, any other questions from council members and we'll open up to the public comment? Okay, so seeing none, we'll go ahead and open up to public comment. um, Heidi, can you please let us know if anyone has their hand up? |
| 03:47:19.37 | Heidi Scoble | It appears to be a very three hands raised at this moment. We'll start with Vicki Nichols first. Peter, then Sandra Bushmaker. Vicky, you've been unmuted. |
| 03:47:29.92 | Vicki Nichols | Thank you so much. Thank you. Um, I, I was saddened to see those pictures again, obviously, the VA has allowed this building to collapse. So my question is, this is on the national register. They had started some mothballing processes under section 106, which they came to the council several times, they talked through their plan. They actually destabilized that wall and caused that to be weakened. The roof they took off and never covered it for I don't even remember how many years so this has really been neglect my question is before this is out of their hands what is their obligation to be doing some of this the stabilization is if we have a big wind now, that wall is going to go. I'm so upset by this. I've been in this from the beginning. Also, my other question is if the obligation of the, under the contract, if the, What's the consequences if the use has changed? Is it such that the GSA takes the building back? And just for the record, Nextdoor the last two days has been blowing up. Can you just reiterate that this building cannot be used for housing because it's deemed that it's not appropriate? I think there's some confusion in the, community and lastly, I'm probably the only one still around, but at one point the city was considering a remodel, just outgrowing the city building department. And there was thoughts that at one point when there was an idea of a community center being considered or built or dreamt up, that the parks and rec would go occupy that space, opening up the lower floors of city hall to be used for more offices. As we know now, we don't even have a bathroom upstairs for what we do now for staff, but we don't have a lunchroom. Two minutes has to last. |
| 03:49:36.98 | Sybil Boutillier | Bye. |
| 03:49:37.03 | Ian Sobieski | Thank you. |
| 03:49:37.07 | Unknown | You're too. |
| 03:49:38.03 | Heidi Scoble | Okay. |
| 03:49:43.73 | Heidi Scoble | Peter... You've been unmuted. |
| 03:49:48.80 | Peter Pentmeter | Thank you. No video tonight. After my decades of experience in the real estate business, Councilman Sobresky is exactly on point here. This property likely has a negative value. It's gonna be a money pit no matter who gets involved in it. The structure, to my view, has no remaining historical significance, should be removed from the register. The site should be demolished, environmental cleanup, performed. That's going to be a multimillion dollar effort before it's all over. And as far as I'm concerned, the property has a negative value. and the city should not even be considering taking a look at getting involved in. Thank you. |
| 03:50:37.80 | Heidi Scoble | Sandra Bushmaker, you've been |
| 03:50:39.03 | Sandra Bushmaker | muted. |
| 03:50:39.44 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 03:50:43.00 | Sandra Bushmaker | Good evening again. There were three letters that were sent in a timely fashion to the council on this subject. One was by me, another one was by Sue Fisher King, and another one was by John Flavin that I would request be put into the council packet. Um, I don't know what happened, but in any event, there are a number of questions that are being asked. I happen to agree with Peter Pentmeter's assessment of this project. I think it's a boondoggle, it's a money pit, and I don't want to see the city buying liability for latent health issues arising from the toxic materials there. And we don't have a current assessment. So I think that, We need to proceed with caution if at all. My tendency is to say not at all. So I'd like to... see the city not spend a lot of time or money on this particular project. Thank you. |
| 03:51:47.65 | Heidi Scoble | Alice Merrill is our next speaker. Alice, you've been unmuted. |
| 03:51:55.43 | Alice Merrill | Hi. Can't see me very well. Um, Many years ago, I was walking down there and I spoke with the man who was the Oh, he was the... guard. I guess. He was there all the time. He was very chatty, very friendly, and I got chatting with him. And so this was before It got on the historical register. I said, why not? Why doesn't the government just take it down? It's falling down. It's already falling down. And he said, well, they won't. Um, and I said, well, what about insurance? And this is just a conversation. And he said, Well, the insurance wouldn't cover it Well, The government would have to pay the insurance to cover it if they took it down. If it falls down, The insurance is covered by But not by the owner, not by the military, by the general funds of the United States. So the military is simply waiting. And, I tend to agree. I tend to think that the guy knew what he was talking about. And it hasn't been taken care of, it hasn't been kept up, For us to buy it, I know that some developers gonna get in there and we're gonna grind our teeth, but we aren't a huge community. and to take on this building if anybody's walked by recently. It's falling down. I mean, it's fallen down. It's gone, except for it's been held up by sticks and there's no roof. It's gone. So what are we buying? I'm not sure. what are we buying if we do? And the government's just waited us out And now they're willing to sell. I'm sorry that didn't... how it works but That's what I think, thank you. |
| 03:53:49.30 | Janelle Kellman | Thank you, Alice. Do we have any other members of the public that would like to speak tonight? see you one more. |
| 03:53:57.38 | Heidi Scoble | I have Sybil Boutillier. Sybil, you've been asked to be unmuted and start your video. |
| 03:54:06.22 | Sybil Boutillier | Thank you. Well, I think it'd be very important to get a more recent evaluation of the toxicity in that. but I know that when we have the Marin ship community workshop, A number of people mentioned that the feasibility the possibility We don't know about the feasibility. the possibility of That's right. being appropriate for as Vicki mentioned a community center recreation center and and possibly divided with a historical museum about the marineship and you know, some sort of use like that. which would fit into the health and human service and the parks and recreation, uses mentioned. Um. |
| 03:55:03.43 | Sybil Boutillier | My child? It's an interesting idea. if the feasibility is there regarding the job system. |
| 03:55:16.93 | Sybil Boutillier | Yep. The other thing, if I have another minute, I guess I do get to say, What's happening? You're instant. You're still on. Oh, okay. The other thing I was just going to say is what will happen with that property if we don't buy it? Does it go up to whoever the highest bidder is or how does that thing get disposed of? And what control, if any, will we have over what the use is at that point? |
| 03:55:52.94 | Ian Sobieski | you know, If there are no more public comments, I'm sorry, you're still going, he said, well, you still have 30 seconds. |
| 03:55:59.34 | Sybil Boutillier | Thank you. |
| 03:56:00.74 | Ian Sobieski | Just, I thought that was a great question. I think the community would love an answer to too, if maybe the GSA, David or Aaron could comment on what happens if the city of Susolito does not buy this property, what's the process from there? What do you expect to happen? |
| 03:56:14.93 | David (GSA Director) | As I started the comments, that's the final stage of the disposal process would be a competitive public sale. if the city was not interested in acquiring the property. However, when it's conveyed to a new owner, the city has police powers to, including general plan, building code, all of those things that you have in your planning department to steer that development to fit your desires. The federal government won't impose such any kind of conditions related to their use in a other than maybe the environmental. We still have to get through the historic part. The one thing I'll say for the group, the section 106, it is on the registered listing. And that is a factor that we'll have to consult with the SHPO. We hear that some folks have expressed that the building is not worth saving. However, we do, we'll have to go through that consultation process on whatever disposal path we choose. And so, yeah, public sale will be the next step if there's no public body that would like to acquire the property. |
| 03:57:32.59 | Janelle Kellman | Just to follow up on that excellent question. So if a private property owner buys it or then they're not restricted Bye. use other than the police power and our zoning internal plans. Does that mean that they could knock it all down, notwithstanding the 106 process, but let's say the historic preservation aspect of it. And then they could, use it for, they can remediate and then use it for anything, or are they always gonna be restricted by a deed restriction to commercial industrial use? |
| 03:58:03.72 | David (GSA Director) | Well, If they proposed no new use, they'd be restricted to industrial use. Any covenant for historic would have to be decided if it's not going to apply or not. That hasn't been settled. |
| 03:58:17.31 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:58:18.77 | David (GSA Director) | But, uh... Yes, under the provisions, if a developer chose to remediate the soil to unrestricted use, residential use, and they have the wherewithal to do so, they could do that. |
| 03:58:32.34 | Janelle Kellman | Got it. And what happens if it simply falls down? There's a huge wind storm. And you know, majority of it or some significant amount. |
| 03:58:39.97 | David (GSA Director) | Significantly, man. One of the caveats that I feel a little vulnerable here, but GSA is just the broker of this sale, but the federal government, VA is a land holding agency, would need to assess the circumstance. And if it fell down, they'd probably do a removal action to take away any, certainly eliminate any hazard to the public. I'm not sure. whether what level, again, Janelle, going into how bad of the class, what would they do to do that? But that would be the VA's responsibility. |
| 03:59:21.47 | Janelle Kellman | I got it. Any other questions for staff for GSA? Maybe just one more for GSA team. So I know that we, you're working with you guys too. create a timeline Can you just share with the council sort of what the next steps are, what the time frame exactly is, and whether that can be extended or how that looks right now. |
| 03:59:50.52 | David (GSA Director) | Aaron, do you want to go ahead and speak about that? |
| 03:59:53.55 | Aaron Cullen | Sure. So in terms of extending the timeline, can you provide some more clarification just for, so I can articulate properly? |
| 04:00:02.10 | Janelle Kellman | When do we have to make a decision by? |
| 04:00:04.36 | Aaron Cullen | So we will be posting on the 28th of June. So that means the window would close the 28th of July. So you would have to make a decision between that window. So that gives you 30 days to determine which public benefit conveyance Well, suit the city. and you would write a letter of interest to say that you were interested. And that's all that has to happen within that 30-day window. Once the letter is written, then coordination between the sponsoring agency, completing the application, there's a more time that's allowed for that with coordination with the sponsoring agency. So is there a definite timeline with that. not to my knowledge. David Chelsea Tweed can also help support it. more information. |
| 04:00:55.10 | David (GSA Director) | Thank you. |
| 04:00:57.86 | Janelle Kellman | Okay, thank you very much. |
| 04:00:59.58 | David (GSA Director) | So just to put a spin on it, if you will, is that Yeah, the 30 days is just an expression of interest and that's not a commitment. It just moves it, it holds the public sale in advance until the city could complete its due diligence application. So I would recommend that council, if you're deliberating this, is just try to hone which of those five or seven things that work for you and if you know, |
| 04:01:11.24 | Unknown | MOVES IT. |
| 04:01:32.60 | David (GSA Director) | correctional facility isn't in the cards well don't ask for that don't but if it's a you're interested in a uh the negotiated sale historic monument and education just put put a letter of interest in that and then we can kind of move to that next stage of the application process give you time to assess the documents that mr sobieska is concerned about so you, so you're fully aware, we'll disclose what we know, and then we'll be essentially negotiating with you and trying to make sure that we have, you're fully aware of the potential acquisition post this interest period. |
| 04:02:10.43 | Ian Sobieski | David, when will you do your fair market analysis, your appraisal? |
| 04:02:14.87 | David (GSA Director) | We're going to get that started here soon. I don't know when we'll have the report. It's probably be 60 to 90 days from now. She didn't get a chance. |
| 04:02:22.33 | Ian Sobieski | You're going to get it after the interest went down. |
| 04:02:25.99 | David (GSA Director) | Yeah, but again, I think if the city the you Letter of interest. Um, you know, buying the city to any outcome. So I understand that you won't have that data point to help shape your decision, but the negotiated sale request doesn't mean that you will sign it to any value. |
| 04:02:50.02 | Ian Sobieski | that we had come up with. Are you legally precluded from taking an offer that's below the fair market value as measured by your |
| 04:02:56.89 | David (GSA Director) | We can review the offer, but generally we use the appraisal as the THE FAMILY IS as a guide as a guide stone on whether we've accepted or not. And that's where the congressional oversight does come in. |
| 04:03:09.78 | Ian Sobieski | Sorry, one more question. If we chose not to bid, you do your appraisal, you try to sell it to the public. Nobody bids on it. you've got no virus. Does that indicate that your appraisal is incorrect and would you then entertain a different offer or what would the process be then? |
| 04:03:27.42 | David (GSA Director) | Well, again, that's an interesting scenario. But yes, if there was a circumstance where a public sale lit and fail, we could go back and reconsider an offer by the city at a different amount. |
| 04:03:41.56 | Janelle Kellman | And David, as you describe the processes of my right hearing that a letter doesn't find the city, we could we could send a letter of interest, but then should we conduct some environmental review or something else we could. then we draw that letter. |
| 04:03:57.02 | David (GSA Director) | Absolutely. I mean, I think that's the whole part of the application process. This really is just a so we can move to the next stage and kind of do an orderly disposal. But this kind of buys you time by providing that expression of interest. |
| 04:04:15.09 | Janelle Kellman | But practically speaking, your next stage is the appraisal. |
| 04:04:15.50 | David (GSA Director) | Yeah. Yes. |
| 04:04:20.46 | Janelle Kellman | Thank you for indulging us. Really appreciate it. Okay. Well, I don't know who would like to start off, but public comment is closed. It's back up with the council. um, I don't know. Ian, do you want to start us since you're one of the members of the public? |
| 04:04:34.80 | Ian Sobieski | I saw Susan unmute herself, so I'm going to |
| 04:04:37.42 | Janelle Kellman | Thank you. |
| 04:04:37.43 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Oh yeah, Susan, please. No, I was just gonna, Vice Mayor, I was just gonna ask if you and Council Member Sobieski did have a recommendation as the working committee and it's, or what your thoughts are. I mean, I have comments, but I was gonna just ask that. |
| 04:04:53.80 | Ian Sobieski | Well, as you saw from some of our questioning, a few weeks ago, maybe months ago, and I can't remember anymore, we recommended and we asked to see if we could get a quickie environmental assessment of our own that we would pay for on just the level set. It's the huge wallet card in here in terms of the liability to this property. It could very well have negative value If there's a It could very well have negative value, period. It could be a big albatross. potential value if it doesn't. So it's just an unknown. So I was doing a, one question for Lily was, uh, what the update is about our ability to get that environmental study at our own time. I'm not sure. before the windows closed. and I don't know if we used the law and the news on this. |
| 04:05:44.73 | Janelle Kellman | There she is. |
| 04:05:45.71 | Ian Sobieski | Yeah. |
| 04:05:46.32 | Janelle Kellman | Thanks, Alicia. |
| 04:05:46.87 | Ian Sobieski | Do we have any news on this ability Durham. environmental assessment. |
| 04:05:52.19 | Lily Whalen | Thank you, council member Sobieski. I don't have the news that you would like, but I do have a suggested path forward. If the council is interested In pursuing that option, our suggestion is, we've been collecting names of firms that we could reach out to. and we would reach out to those firms and ask them to review the existing documentation and then make recommendations and give us advice on what type of assessment we would need moving forward. So that would be our recommendation. following this council meeting tonight, if that's the council's direction. |
| 04:06:30.87 | Janelle Kellman | Could we skip that step and move into actually doing some soil testing? Uh. given that we know what we have and we know what we don't have, We don't know necessarily what we're looking for, but can we dig in and |
| 04:06:40.25 | Jill Hoffman | I don't know. |
| 04:06:44.67 | Janelle Kellman | get to the bottom of where's the contamination and how bad is it? I'm asking sort of from a consultant standpoint, could we just go right to that direction? |
| 04:06:57.70 | Lily Whalen | Sierra City Attorney jumped on |
| 04:06:59.03 | Mary Wagner | here. Thank you. |
| 04:07:00.45 | Lily Whalen | THE FAMILY. |
| 04:07:00.62 | Mary Wagner | yeah happy to happy to help if it's helpful um madam vice mayor that did have an opportunity to talk with um Kevin McGowan your director of public works and Lily well and your Community Development Director on this very question |
| 04:07:00.75 | Lily Whalen | Yeah. |
| 04:07:01.16 | Janelle Kellman | Thank you. |
| 04:07:11.49 | Mary Wagner | And it seemed to us that the first thing to do is have the consultant look at what exists, right? And then they may say, hey go straight to borings or you know a phase two if you will so that was staff's recommendation was to get that review started but potentially under the city manager's contract authority And if we're able to pull something together for you in time for your next meeting, we could move forward that information on the recommended next steps. That's probably to too quick of a timeframe, two weeks. but as Mr. I'm gonna say your last name wrong, Mr. Huss. Indicated, he's the host. You know, even a letter from the city indicating intent doesn't bind us and we'd still have time to complete that environmental review. do our own due diligence, if you will. |
| 04:08:03.26 | Janelle Kellman | Yeah, I guess, Mary, I don't want to short circuit the process, but I guess after having read the documentation, the working group seemed to feel like we know what we don't have, right? We have lots of documents telling us historically, here's a phase one, here's a phase two, but we don't know what's there now. And so we're looking for the quickest path. without spending a lot of taxpayer money to conduct that assessment. |
| 04:08:30.22 | Mary Wagner | I mean, sure, we can certainly ask the consultants that question, Vice Mayor Hoffman, if it makes no sense for them to read the existing documentation. I think that's just a starting place. for them, I think the council could also direct us to continue to work with this working group, you know, and speak to a couple of consultants potentially and get their initial take. on what they would advise. |
| 04:08:51.22 | Ian Sobieski | Thank you. I think everyone's been busy and it's understandable, but the Probably the answer is yes and. what we wanted were quotes to do the boring and that's going to take us a few days or a week or two, to get and then we have to decide if we wanna spend that money. We have no idea what that will cost. |
| 04:09:10.64 | Mary Wagner | Sure, Council Member Sobieski, and I don't want to overstate, but I think from staff's perspective, to even put the RFP together of what we're asking a consultant to do, what type of testing, how many borings, where they should be. would start with a document review. And if that's not accurate, we can continue to work with the working group on a different approach. |
| 04:09:36.68 | Janelle Kellman | I'm wondering if GSA has any ideas, would there be any interest from the federal government in helping facilitate this process for us? Maybe the VA could be convinced to help us expedite? |
| 04:09:50.60 | Janelle Kellman | Maybe? |
| 04:09:50.92 | Wendy Richards | Thank you. |
| 04:09:51.38 | David (GSA Director) | We can provide access to the property. uh that's one thing for sure um the the speaking for the va who's the owner of the property i don't believe that they are in would be inclined to allow to contribute to that effort we can check with them I don't know. I can't speak for them. |
| 04:10:15.96 | Janelle Kellman | And So I think to answer your question, Council Member Cleveland Knowles, so Council Member Sebesky and I were interested in pursuing some ideas around what we could do with that space. We wanted to get community involvement and engagement, looking at the public benefit conveyance to understand whether there was an alignment, but we felt that there was a preliminary step really the first threshold around understanding the contamination and the environmental liability. um and obligations there and we fear that it might be too big as some of the speakers said to really take on but we couldn't make a good recommendation as to how it should be utilized or what it might be worth until we fully understood what the potential contamination could be particularly in light of the dilapidated condition of the building one would sort of tend to think there's going to be some shoring up to do that could of course disturb soils. So our recommendation was to, as Councilman Sobieski stated, to pursue a further inquiry around the environmental contamination And if the initial study came back or the initial quote came back and it was exorbitant. We may not even go down that path. Did I capture that? Councilmember Sabeski. |
| 04:11:27.40 | Ian Sobieski | Yeah, I think so. We're trying to put it together just The again, just for the community's benefit, you know, obviously there's a lot of concern about this building. The government's not willing to invest any more money in assessing the toxic nature of the site. our understanding is the last time any really Substantial assessment was done was 2008. um but even that assessment was only as good as the work that they did there you probably could do better assessment What is nice, I believe David can confirm this, is that if we did do our own, |
| 04:11:59.14 | Unknown | but what is not. |
| 04:12:03.47 | Ian Sobieski | they would take that information and it would be part of the appraisal. They're not willing to pay for a new, new assessment, but they'd be willing to take some of the data that would influence the, the assessment. you know, the wild card is if you find, you know, substantial toxic issues that go beyond with the 2008 study identified then that can have a material effect on the value of the property And if you don't, then that also affects the value of the property. It provides the clarity that to the answer of how toxic is it? And that then informs our thinking about what to do with And the due diligence here is, you know, obviously, We have first dibs and so if we pass up on it because we don't have enough knowledge, then that could play out well if it turns out to be a cesspool of toxic nightmare. But if it turns out not to be, or if somehow a private developer is able to remediate it, then it's going to go in a different direction. So the city wants to have more of a hand in its outcome. There might be some homework to do now, but we have to balance the cost of doing that homework versus the benefits. So we don't have the goods yet from an environmental firm to assess. And I think the next recommended step is to get those bids and whether we submit a letter of interest or not, I think we have the entire really tactical question of wanting to bias the time to get answers. rather than actually saying, Anything more than that? |
| 04:13:37.13 | Janelle Kellman | So yeah, I think that's kind of where we are, that we have the opportunity to submit the letter of interest, conduct some further environmental review, or at least assess whether we want to spend money to conduct further environmental review. It really just delaying the ultimate decision, but we need more information. |
| 04:13:52.55 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Okay. Thank you for that. I mean, I guess I would say I'm I just generally, I think our whole community is on the same page too. I just have a lot of sadness about the site. You know, it just visually kind of represents inertia and missed opportunities. um you know you look at the timeline attached to our staff report tonight Okay. you know, we've been knocking our heads against this wall for years and years. You know, personally, I'm just feeling that We just had a really serious discussion about our budget. we have, we are not fully staffed at this point. We are very short staffed. We have a lot of projects underway. There's a huge amount of risk with this building. I really haven't heard like a clear plan or a clear path. You know, I know we made a lot of progress in years past with partners. you know, developers and others. And I love a lot of the ideas that have come up, you know, the courtyard idea, affordable housing, on the community center, Historical Museum, they're all fantastic. And I would love to see that, you know, any of those become a reality at the site. But I think where I am at this point in time is that I'm very concerned about our staff resources, even in pursuing this in the next couple of months, it's going to take council time, it's going to take community development director time, it's going to take I'm not sure. We also made a decision last year to acquire the Bank of America building we need to get that real estate asset |
| 04:15:38.58 | Ian Sobieski | Thank you. |
| 04:15:38.61 | Tom Riley | Thank you. |
| 04:15:42.85 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | AND I THINK THAT'S A in a you know, as we just saw, we've expectation of getting $160,000 of that this year. but we're, you know, kind of behind the eight ball. So, I'm feeling like there's a lot of downside and I'm not hearing like a real clear path, you know, that we could spend a lot of time and money. and I think that's a great and still be kind of at the decision that It's too big of a project to take on right now. If there's a strong sense from the subcommittee that you want to take the next, you know, you want to put in a letter of interest, I'm not going to, you know, I'm, I can see that side. I'm just not hearing a lot of community and I think that's a enthusiasm and I think we've got some huge risks here. I'm very, and I think one of my biggest concerns is that we, if we put our staff on this, We are taking staff. directly away from their other work. and it will be a push one way or another. And, you know, I think this is kind of a sad story. You know, I think, |
| 04:16:57.13 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:16:59.63 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | I would hope that if it went out on the market that we'd get some good, you know, hopefully GSA would get some good proposals and we can see some you know, see some progress on the building. But having us be a part of that right now is um, I have a lot of skepticism about it. But again, I, you know, |
| 04:17:24.92 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | you know, if you, two of you want to Three of you want to push it forward. Thank you. at least to the next phase and we can reevaluate them. That's also, I can see that path too, but I'm not inclined to move forward. |
| 04:17:38.16 | Janelle Kellman | Thank you. Really appreciate that. THE CITY IS A CITY IS A CITY Council Member Blasstein, do you want to? Ha ha ha. |
| 04:17:44.03 | Melissa Blaustein | Absolutely. I mean, I think it is really too bad that has gone for so many years and we've missed so many opportunities when the building may have been less of a risk. I am struggling with any sort of acquisition or even expensive environmental study we might undertake, given the conversation we've just had about budget and our inability to provide basic level of service or return events. It just seems fiscally irresponsible to consider the purchase of another large real estate property when we haven't yet figured out how we're going to receive the $160,000 annually that's required of us for the B of A building, which is already, we've seen quite a bit of community pushback about |
| 04:18:23.99 | Unknown | is already |
| 04:18:27.70 | Melissa Blaustein | you know, how are we going to finance that building? And so to take on another project of this size, given that in our current economic position, Again, I'm really concerned. I'm concerned about our reserves financially, so I'm inclined not to take on another large purchase. But again, I would also echo Councilmember Cleveland Knowles comments that if the working group feels passionately about this, you are much closer to this than I am or have been, and you have more information and thoughts about it. I'm really concerned about staff time. I'm really concerned about the cost. And I also am aware that even if we aren't, the entity that acquires the machine job. We as the city are still It is still within our purview and in fact our prerogative to determine the zoning and highest and best use for the building. It's not as if we would be unleashing some sort of free-for-all in the space if we decided to not acquire it ourselves. So I'm inclined to not take on the purchase at this time, given our economic position. If we hadn't just acquired the B of A building, I would probably feel differently about this, but there is a lot of risk to consider. There's a consideration that it actually might be a net negative property, and then we've taken on all of that risk and we can't balance our budget without going into our reserves. So I'm inclined to not pursue a purchase of the machine shop at this time, but I could be convinced if it was important to the members of the working group. |
| 04:19:53.73 | Janelle Kellman | Would you be willing, and maybe Council Member Sobieski, would you be willing, Um, doesn't obligate us, but given the historic nature of the building and the sort of unknown opportunity Would you be willing to let the working group pursue the letter of intent knowing that it doesn't obligate us by any means and to solicit some quotes around environmental studies and certainly if it's exorbitant, that would rule it out as well. a path that you all would be willing to consider? |
| 04:20:28.69 | Ian Sobieski | Yeah, and maybe I'd underline that question too about how you feel. Were you not bought into anything to find out what the quotes are? do. this work and even to review the paperwork And I wonder if it matters to any of us on the face of it, it does to me. I kind of would like to know how toxic this site is. If there is a private developer who ends up buying it, they're eventually gonna come and ask for approvals to do something and they're probably gonna come armed firm that they hired and tell us what the state of the land is. And it would be just nice of done our own if we can afford it, if it's if it's what we can't afford because of all the issues we've just heard about tonight. I'm totally down with not. spending their money. not having the luxury of this report but If we had it, then we'd know more about our town. in this one way. |
| 04:21:20.53 | Janelle Kellman | And don't forget there are scenarios where we don't pay for it at all. right, whether it's a PVC or even some type of, you know, heavily negotiated sale. There may not be any outlay of funds. We just don't know. I'm certainly not promising that. But there are scenarios that would allow for that type of conveyance. |
| 04:21:40.46 | Ian Sobieski | So I guess the Starman proposal would be let the working group through this letter of interest. solicit the bids. come back and see if City Council wants to spend the money to do boring. If the answer is no, then just withdraw on a letter and be done with it. |
| 04:21:59.36 | Melissa Blaustein | How much staff time do you anticipate would be spent on pursuing a letter of interest |
| 04:22:05.86 | Alice Merrill | Absolutely. |
| 04:22:06.74 | Melissa Blaustein | And I'm writing an RFP for an assessment. I mean, even just writing the RFP, I just want to get a sense |
| 04:22:13.56 | Janelle Kellman | Yeah, I mean, it's a little tricky, right? Cause we have other groups in town that do take up staff time as well for various projects. And we wouldn't want to start figuring out when, you know, like, cause HPC has voice and interest in learning more about this as well. And I wanted to make sure you know, we're, or at least doing our due diligence around it. |
| 04:22:32.89 | Melissa Blaustein | Well, I'm the liaison for HPC and we haven't really had a comprehensive conversation about the acquisition of the machine shop. If it's something you wanted to bring forward to HPC at the next meeting, we could take it up. I mean, it was definitely considered in the in the new historic review of the community but I don't know. but maybe Lily can speak to the staff time. It would just be interesting to know. |
| 04:22:56.11 | Janelle Kellman | Yeah, and also, Melissa, I think there was a past review of it, and maybe staff can speak to that as well, where there was some historic designation around it. |
| 04:23:07.35 | Lily Whalen | So the amount of staff time to prepare the RFP circulate, that it's unknown right now because we're not entirely sure on the scope of services right now for what we're going to be asking the firm to do. that in our minds, city attorneys and our public works director, that's what we were scratching our heads about, is how much, what that scope of work would look like and how much time that would take to put together. I don't know if Mary and Kevin have any other information Um, other than what we discussed this afternoon. but, And then the other point is if the council's direction was to take this to boards and commissions to solicit interest. obviously take additional staff time. to do that. HPC, Planning Commission, and maybe one or two other boards or commissions. That's a pretty substantial amount of staff time to take that. |
| 04:24:06.52 | Unknown | THE PART OF |
| 04:24:06.80 | Lily Whalen | those boards and commissions. I would imagine probably for each commission, there's probably There are probably eight hours of staff time associated with preparing the documents, getting on the agenda during the presentation, attending the meeting, taking notes, that sort of thing. |
| 04:24:27.10 | Ian Sobieski | So yeah, I think the straw man was Actually not that, the Starman was just, what's the staff time for? two things. getting a firm to review the old documents. Uh, and, making a recommendation to staff about the scope of an RFP for a more substantial environmental engagement. What's the staff trying to prove? |
| 04:24:53.90 | Lily Whalen | So putting together the RFP circulating it and then working with the consultants. |
| 04:24:58.29 | Ian Sobieski | getting a firm to review the documents of the old environmental investigation and make a recommendation staff about what would be in the RFP for a more substantial Thank you. |
| 04:25:09.88 | Lily Whalen | Thank you. |
| 04:25:09.90 | Ian Sobieski | I'm sorry. |
| 04:25:09.97 | Lily Whalen | That would be minimal. That would be minimal staff time. Sorry for not understanding. |
| 04:25:14.41 | Melissa Blaustein | Okay, if that's something that the working group really wants to pursue, just to know. But I obviously am still concerned with the cost. So, I mean, but if it's just minimal staff time and you feel passionately about we should at least pursue it, then I'm fine with that. Thank you. |
| 04:25:31.65 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | but I think you know the working group also you know at some point we can put in this letter of interest, but then pretty soon we're going to have to ramp up to an actual proposal you know, So this is, I don't think this is something that environmental review will take Doing that RFP, getting the consultant on board is going to take time. And then by the time that time has elapsed and we get those results and we've expended that money, we're gonna need to be like, really diving into this proposal, so getting community input and coming up with a what we want to do. Yeah. |
| 04:26:07.22 | Janelle Kellman | Yeah. |
| 04:26:07.66 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | I don't know. |
| 04:26:08.34 | Janelle Kellman | Yeah, I think we'll take on the task of trying to negotiate with GSA and others around the time frame. I think right now if we can get a sense of what it might take to get an environmental review, then we'll know what kind of timing we're working with It blows the schedule and it blows the schedule and we don't proceed with it. This is just sort of an initial review of something that's been in our community for a long time and we could put it to rest in one direction or the other. |
| 04:26:40.81 | Ian Sobieski | So yeah, feeling passionate is probably Overstaffed. I like the minimum staff time and how much work we put into it. It feels like there's still a few cards to turn over. I think we have a sense of most likely outcome, If we turn some of those cards over and get some happy surprises, then it makeshift our thinking about the possibilities. |
| 04:27:07.21 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Okay, yeah, I mean, it's just the toxicity of the site is just one major downside of the site. |
| 04:27:11.53 | Unknown | major. you |
| 04:27:15.75 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Not to mention the state of disrepair that the VA has left it in. |
| 04:27:20.60 | Melissa Blaustein | Thank you. And the liability of the roof were to collapse after we took on the purchase really makes me nervous as well. |
| 04:27:21.69 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | THE LIFE. |
| 04:27:28.66 | Melissa Blaustein | Oh. |
| 04:27:28.70 | Janelle Kellman | All excellent points. I don't, I mean, I know I don't dispute any of them either. I don't know, Councilor, somebody ask you if you dispute them? |
| 04:27:28.92 | Ian Sobieski | Thank you. |
| 04:27:35.31 | Ian Sobieski | I don't dispute any of them either. You know, this is an update meeting. The fact is we don't have to do much more than just decide if we want to turn over this environmental card a little bit and I think the downsides of doing that are very limited given that it's limited staff time. I agree with Susan's assessment, You know, we see where the most likely outcome of this is, but there's some value I think continuing to engage a little bit more. |
| 04:28:04.49 | Unknown | Okay. OK. |
| 04:28:05.80 | Ian Sobieski | I just want to put in one plug because often the Bank of America building is brought up as an exemplar and it's a totally different situation. We got a great deal on that building. The previous city council negotiated a great price, $2 million, and a building well worth more than that. |
| 04:28:06.21 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:28:22.29 | Ian Sobieski | So even if it's empty for several years and we sold it, we would come out ahead. I just think it's important to put a pin on that. But the difference between that and building with toxic liability issues, that could be negative value and blow up in our face, is nine days. |
| 04:28:39.13 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Yeah, I completely agree. It was a great purchase. I don't, not looking back on that. I'm just saying we're behind in, fulfilling our responsibilities on that. |
| 04:28:48.50 | Janelle Kellman | All right. Well, thank you for everybody for indulging in and I on this conversation. Really appreciate it. So there's no action to take here. um, I think then we will put our heads together and see what we can facilitate with minimal staff time on an expedited schedule. So and do our best to serve you well. Okay, well with that said, I think we're going to move on to item 7B. And I think our mayor, Welcome to join us. |
| 04:29:15.26 | Jill Hoffman | Yes, okay. off we go rocketing right through our agenda we're going to item 7b this is the professional services agreement for not to exceed $860,470 for our 2023 through 2031 housing element update and so this is for This is for consultants to help us prepare our next housing element update. And I'm sure director uh whalen is going to take us expeditiously through this presentation although i know our council members are going to have some questions about this. So go ahead. Director Wailangi, whenever you're ready. |
| 04:30:01.52 | Lily Whalen | Thank you, Madam Mayor. And I will try to be brief here. I so the item tonight is to award a contract for the preparation of the next housing element update. Before we get to the meat of the this item tonight I did think it was important and I'll be brief to go over what a housing element is briefly and some background about the arena as well here. So before, Housing elements, one of the general plan elements mandated by state law and it's required to be revisited and updated with new housing goals every eight years. The main purpose of the plan is to adequately plan to meet the existing and projected housing needs of all economic segments of our community. |
| 04:30:44.82 | Lily Whalen | State housing law requires that each city must strive to meet their fair share of the regional housing need for low and moderate income housing. In order to create a housing element showing that it could meet the local housing needs, a jurisdiction must first know how much housing it is to plan for. So this is determined by a process called the Regional Housing Needs Assessment. This process begins with the State Department of Housing and Community Development, or HCD, who determines the total number of new homes in the Bay Area. the Bay Area needs to build and how affordable those homes seem to be in order to meet the housing needs of all people at all economic levels. And this determination is called the Regional Housing Needs Determination. The Association of Bay Area Governments, or ABAC, then distributes a share of the region's housing needs to each city, town, county in the region. And each local government must then update their housing element to show the locations where housing can be built and the policies and strategies necessary to meet the community's housing needs. Our six cycle arena is anticipated to be significantly higher than prior cycles and subsequently Sausalito's arena will be about more than 900% greater than our prior cycle. Our draft housing need number right now is 724 units. In May of this year, the ABAC Executive Board approved the final RHNA methodology and draft allocations and approval of this will Initiate now the period in which local jurisdictions or hcb can submit appeal to a a bag requesting a change to any very jurisdictions allocation. The appeal deadline is coming up very soon in just over a month on July 9th. |
| 04:32:41.68 | Lily Whalen | law is prescriptive and requires housing elements to address a number of issues which are provided on the screen i'll not read all of these required components but just leave this slide saying that the |
| 04:32:47.53 | Melissa Blaustein | . |
| 04:32:51.89 | Lily Whalen | that current housing Element law is very complex and requires an extraordinary amount of analysis and work to put together. |
| 04:32:56.54 | Unknown | Good. Thank you. |
| 04:32:59.14 | Lily Whalen | housing element update. |
| 04:33:05.03 | Lily Whalen | On February 9th, the city council received a staff report on the upcoming housing element update. The council then formed a proposal review ad hoc committee made up of Vice Mayor Kalman and Council Member Cleveland Knowles Musician to Planning Commission Chair Fowler and Commissioner Luxenberg. and staff to advise on the formation of a housing element advisory. Committee. In addition to reviewing and circulating the request for proposals, for consultant consultant help with this effort. and provide recommendations on consultant assistance for the work needed to prepare the housing element update. due to the extensive and technical requirements of housing element law, a compressed schedule to get it done, the anticipated So I think that's a great question. expanded HCD oversight and new requirements for identifying eligible sites. assistance of a qualified consultant is required for this project. It's important that the city commence the process immediately to select the consultant and begin the update of the housing element. failure to meet the housing element processing deadlines um, could result in state penalties and also have notifications for our our city's building and zoning as well. after the ad hoc committee review and collaboration on the finalization of the RFP On March 5th, we circulated the RFP to 16 firms and on the city's website. Unfortunately, we did not receive any proposals for the work by the response deadline. which has been an increasing trend for many communities during this cycle update due to the challenges I've mentioned. The proposal review ad hoc committee then recommended a re-release of the RFP to a select and limited number of firms. And we did receive two proposals. |
| 04:35:02.74 | Lily Whalen | The two submittals received through the second outreach were from Harrison Associates with some assistance from a housing element specialist, Victoria TM Associates. Harris proposed to produce the housing element update in a mitigated NECA declaration environmental assessment at a cost of 317,000 $735. DeNovo planning group with transportation engineers experts W. Trans and Kittleson Associates Community Outreach Professionals, Kerns and West, and Noise Specialist, Saxelby Acoustics, proposed a housing element update and preparation of environmental impact report at a cost of just under $700,000 for the base cost. the review committee then reviewed both proposals and interviewed representatives of both firms. The committee unanimously recommended DeNova Planning Group as being the more comprehensive proposal, given the challenging nature of this housing element planning cycle. which will require substantial public involvement, transparency, and creativity to meet the state requirement and achieve a certified element. The committee's recommendation was based on these, in part, these following points here. So first is the experience and senior staff commitment of DeNovo. which was completed 21 housing element updates, all of them certified by HCD. and with 19 updates in process for this cycle. also including the involvement of a principal of the firm as the project manager and main author. Also the proposed engagement process was key for the recommendation of the DeNovo team. The engagement process includes four community workshops with open houses, two focus group meetings, a dedicated city webpage, eight meetings of the housing element advisory committee, a stakeholder survey and written monthly status summaries. Also, as mentioned, the Genova team includes a firm specializing in community outreach. The Harris proposal was significantly inferior with regards to community outreach and public engagement. Additionally, the group felt that the de novo proposal proposed preparation of an environmental impact report tearing from the recently adopted general plan eir was superior proposal over the harris proposal which was for a mitigated negative declaration An EIR is most likely warranted for this update since planning for the re-enallocation will more than double the projected number of total housing units analyzed in the general plan EIR. furthermore the scope of work in the de novo proposal includes the required general plan amendments and rezoning that may be required as the results of the housing element update which was a required scope in the RFP that Harris did not include. the inclusion of an optional task for visual modeling of potential. building masks as part of the evaluation of potential housing sites to assist the public and decision makers and understanding of zoning and design options is a smart optional task to include for this update and was also not included in the Harris proposal. And finally, in conclusion, the proposal review committee had much greater confidence from the interview that the DeNovo team has the skills and experience to handle the preparation of a potentially controversial housing element update. we're about to embark in. |
| 04:38:31.75 | Lily Whalen | In negotiating a final scope of services with Nick DeNovo, Originally proposed budget was able to be reduced by about $51,000 without compromising the quality of the work. Additionally, staff and de novo identified a number of optional tasks which could be added to the scope of warranted. Then these include assistance in preparing an appeal of the city's draft arena allocation. including a detailed justification graphic services for project band branding and design templates. Additional meetings of the housing element advisory committee if needed. and preparation of building massing studies to provide a sense of building size needed to accommodate different levels of density. of all of the optional tasks staff recommends the contract include optional tasks for preparing and appeal of the arena. two additional Housing Element Committee meetings and the preparation of building masking studies for nine sites if needed. |
| 04:39:29.17 | Unknown | NEWS. |
| 04:39:30.15 | Lily Whalen | And that would be a total additional amount of $60,530. |
| 04:39:38.91 | Lily Whalen | The base project cost is, as I mentioned, $699,940. And the staff recommended optional including preparation of the appeal of the arena The two additional committee meetings and the building massing studies is $60,530. It's recommended that the not to exceed contract amount also include a 14% contingency for $100,000. given uncertainty about the extent of public input and the number of ultimate meetings. Ciao. number of meetings to ultimately adopt a new housing element. Section 330-500 of this Oscillated Municipal Code related to professional service contracts provides the city may award a contract to a higher price contractor based on the scope of services available unique skills staffing levels timing. um, prior experience, past working relationships, and other factors required by the department. or proposed by the contractor. Based on the review of the proposals, input from the committee and reference checks, staff believes that the De Novo Planning Group is the most qualified consulting team to prepare the upcoming housing element. and environmental assessment and recommends the council award the contract to the DeNovo team. who awarded the contract tonight, DeNova's first task would be to immediately start working on the RHNA appeal due to the upcoming appeal deadline of July 9th. We would work with the council's working group, Vice Mayor Kellman and council member Cleveland Knowles on the appeal documents and justification. and file those documents with. APAG. as soon as possible and certainly by the appeal deadline. without the need to return to the council. |
| 04:41:29.24 | Lily Whalen | Regarding the fiscal impact, the total contract amount for DeNovo is $860,400. $1,270 this includes fixed costs including contingency and optional tests And that would be for the preparation of the housing element and environmental assessment through adoption and certification in accordance with the scope of services. To date, the city anticipates receiving $101,000 in grant funds for the housing element update and we've applied for those funds and secured a majority of them. And we've also applied for an additional competitive grant funding for up to $100,000. And I have not heard the status on that. |
| 04:42:13.82 | Ian Sobieski | Thank you. |
| 04:42:14.06 | Lily Whalen | grant application today. With that staff is recommending the council adopt the resolution authorizing the city manager to execute the professional service agreement with the Novo planning group. an amount not to exceed 860,000 $470 for the preparation of the 2023-2031 Housing Element Update and environmental assessing consistent with the proposal. And then also to appropriate in the current fiscal year, by minute action, 900,000. in the professional services account and planning division. Ben Ritchie is here tonight if there are any questions about the proposal and he's a principal with DeNovo Planning Group. And of course I'm available as well, as well as your two council member Mm-hmm. Council members who are on the proposal review committee. Thank you for your attention. |
| 04:43:08.70 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, thanks. So the. Do I have it right that the I saw on your slide that the really the only urgent thing Right now is the preparation of the appeal for the RHNA number. I mean, we need to, I understand that we need to retain, you know, retain a firm, I got that. with regard to a decision tonight, that's the most driving |
| 04:43:35.84 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:43:35.85 | Jill Hoffman | Yeah. urgent thing. |
| 04:43:38.06 | Lily Whalen | Thank you, Mayor Hoffman. The appeal is definitely urgent as that deadline is approaching in July, if the council is interested in filing an appeal. The, it is urgent that we, We award a contract to a consultant to do this work as soon as possible. The work needs to get started this summer. on the inventory of the sites. And that's the most pressing We also, because there will be an environmental impact report associated with this project, Also, that's another reason why we need to get started right away in order to build out the project description and start that assessment. |
| 04:44:21.28 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, thanks. Um, So, Uh, Council member Anybody want to jump in here? I know we had, we are, |
| 04:44:30.92 | Ian Sobieski | Great work. Melissa has her hand up. |
| 04:44:33.23 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 04:44:33.26 | Melissa Blaustein | Oh, go ahead Melissa, sorry. I have some questions. Great work Lily. Thanks for pulling this together. And I know it was a lot of to submit the RFP and I appreciate that and to the members of the working group as well. I had a couple of questions. In looking at the scope of work, I was really concerned with the minimal number of meetings of the Housing Element Advisory Committee. It looks like the proposal only allows for eight meetings. And then in the optional, there's two additional meetings, and this is an 18 month or even potentially two year process. And so I don't understand how we can hope to have accurate review of and robust discussion for the folks that we will have on the Housing Element Advisory Committee in just eight meetings, especially considering that for the general plan, I don't know. 70 plus meetings it feels like Vice Mayor Keltman will will remember, but I'm just trying to understand. Could you speak to where that that short number came from. |
| 04:45:29.49 | Lily Whalen | Thanks for the question. Council member Blasdine. We originally had a higher the DeNova came in with a higher number of meetings and that was one thing that we worked with them. to see if there is any areas of their proposal that could be reduced and they indicated that those the extra the meetings that were in their original proposal could be reduced down to the eight. I requested we bring back in the additional two if we needed those for the floating meetings. I think that Ben could probably speak a little bit more to how they're envisioning those meetings occurring and how they're envisioning using the other public engagement opportunities that they're proposing to engage the community and and also involve the Housing All-Net Committee in reviewing the draft documents. And I see Ben here. |
| 04:46:25.78 | Ben Ritchie | Thank you Lily. Good evening Madam Mayor, Council Members. I'm Ben Ritchie. I'm a principal with DeNovo Planning Group and I'll be serving as kind of a principal advisor on your housing element update. Our other principal, Beth Thompson, is really our housing guru, and she had a schedule conflict this evening, so I'm assisting on her behalf. um yeah in terms of the total number of meetings we did do that reduction in terms of coordinating with lily on trying to find some budget efficiencies from the original proposal that we submitted you know what i anticipate in going through this process is the uh the real sausage making the challenge is going to be the identification of the opportunity sites and then the discussion on essentially how we accommodate the regional housing needs allocation so there's going to be some very challenging discussions on density potential discussions regarding zone changes and really identifying and demonstrating to hcd where those opportunity sites are going to go so in terms of the flow of the meetings we don't have a specific agenda for meetings one through eight but i imagine the lion's share of the animated discussions are gonna be really focused on the map and identifying how the arena is gonna be accommodated as we move forward. so we have identified optional tasks in terms of holding additional meetings as literally mentioned there's a 14 contingency budget which can get you a whole bunch of extra meetings if needed and that contingency budget in our eyes is not something to be tapped into unless we've been expressly requested by the city so if you do feel as we work our way through the process that additional meetings are needed I'm confident that there's ample budget there for us to add those on the fly if the city determines they're warranted |
| 04:48:08.74 | Melissa Blaustein | Okay, and then I had a question. Well, I have a couple of additional questions just because this is quite an interesting it's quite a lot of money to spend on consulting firm. And I served on the general plan advisory committee. And I think that many of us, had frustrations with some of the ways that the facilitation of those, services went. Not to say that that would be the case with your firm at all then. I really appreciate you being here, but I just want to make sure we're being as efficient as possible with whatever city dollars we're spending. So on the appeal that is the first piece that would be pursued but that was listed as a optional task. So I'm wondering why it was listed as an optional task and if we're if we're immediately pursuing it. And I'd also like to understand how likely we are to be successful in that type of appeal. Have we ever been successful in arena appeal? What is the percentage rate of success in these arena appeals? Um, is it worth, you know, spending that money on and why is it listed as optional? |
| 04:49:08.65 | Ben Ritchie | Certainly, I can take the first stab at that if you'd like, Lily. |
| 04:49:12.14 | Ian Sobieski | Yeah. |
| 04:49:13.93 | Ben Ritchie | Appeals are becoming more common, particularly in the sixth cycle. Most communities are aghast when they see their numbers. It's sticker shock across California. We include it as an optional task for a couple of reasons. One, some communities simply shrug and say, that's the number we were given. Let's go do our housing element. Other communities say, okay, we're going to fight tooth and nail and do everything we possibly can to get this number changed. I appreciate your question on percentages of odds. I can't possibly remotely answer that. We've had some communities that we've worked in where we've assisted with appeals and they have ratcheted the number down a small order of magnitude, but we have not had a situation where they came back and said, wow, we got it wrong. Let's slash this number in half. Um, in terms of, you know, kind of, dollars and cents, the costs that we've proposed to help with the appeal. I'm I hope you get a good return on your investment. I'm not about to come in and promise and say, we're going to write a letter and it'll be perfect. Cause I'm not going to over promise anything. We're dealing with state regulatory agencies. And there's a lot of politics behind affordable housing this year at the state level, as I'm certain the council's aware. So part of what we need to do, not only get that letter submitted early, but we need to provide justification on why we're granting the appeal. And so we need to provide, or why we're requesting the appeal. So we need to provide some, supplemental supporting information. So one of the things that we would need to do very, very immediately would be to start to analyze and quantify the actual constraints you have on meeting this number to provide some justification as part of that appeal letter. So it's a very tight window to get that effort done, to get the appeal in in time. We can certainly craft a quality letter, but there's some analysis that needs to go into it to make it a worthwhile endeavor. |
| 04:51:07.83 | Melissa Blaustein | And would we be compromising the potential use for rezoning sites? If perhaps we say we allude to them in the letter and say this site won't work for X, Y, or Z reason, and then things change and it's our only site that we have available to meet our arena numbers, have we compromised the possibility of using that site? What is that like? |
| 04:51:26.87 | Ben Ritchie | In general, no. You know, simply by a matter of the calendar, you know, the July deadline for the Reno, what we're not going to be able to do is kind of go site by site. I think it is going to be more of a broad picture inventory. We're going to talk about you know, total vacant acres designated for multi-family housing we're going to talk about current density levels we're going to talk about topographical constraints sea level rise constraints um you know visual quality of life constraints and so we're going to help craft the narrative on why the number allocated to sausalito likely feels so disproportionately challenging to meet for lack of i'll use my politically correct terms and so uh I don't think what we're going to, and certainly by next month, we're not going to be able to go through site by site on 15 sites. And here's a pros cons analysis or constraints analysis for each. So I appreciate your concern, but I'm, I'm very confident that whatever we craft for supporting evidence for the appeals letter is not going to hamstring your ability to find qualified sites later on. |
| 04:52:27.20 | Melissa Blaustein | Yeah, I just feel like it better, just personally, maybe I'm wrong, but I just feel like it would probably be a better use to have additional meetings of the Housing Element Advisory Committee as we grapple with the challenge of whatever our arena number itself might be, because it's going to be high no matter what. Like you said, I think it's unlikely that we're going to get it slashed, but I appreciate it. the thought process there. The other question I had again, coming out of having served on the general plan, advisory committee and seen a lot of, just had some challenges in, in work product or just the amount of meetings and how the process ended up operating in the end. Do we have a plan for benchmarking together? And what is usually your process for benchmarking at your firm to make sure that we're meeting targets, that we have all the information that we need, meetings are run effectively, that kind of thing. |
| 04:53:18.92 | Ben Ritchie | Sure, we have, you know, it's difficult for me to articulate the full process we go through to make that efficient, but I can give you just a couple of things. One, you know, I lead our general plan practice for the firm, so I do advisory committee meetings all the time. I'd like to think we've gotten efficient at them. I find our better general plans and our housing elements actually have fewer rather than more meetings because we try to make efficient use of them. There is some benefit in the fact that the housing element has a hard and fast certification deadline. General plans tend to be more open-ended in terms of, you know, the council may have priorities or objectives on when you want to complete a project, you know you're more concerned with getting it right so the schedule tends to slip and more meetings to talk about the next meeting the housing element has a hard fast deadline that you need to meet and so that lights a fire under everybody in terms of making sure we move through efficiently and so uh the other thing i'll add is we've added kearns and west which does this professionally we've worked with them on a number of projects before they bring just a level of organization and expertise to this they do this for a living so there'll be a community outreach plan there'll be a work plan for the advisory committee and we'll have what we'll do after the first meeting is we'll have a defined agenda to work or a set of objectives for each meeting so as we approach each meeting we understand what it is we need to accomplish and we'll provide materials to the group in advance so that the idea is we get to the meeting and don't have to take time to get up to speed. We've already got up to speed and we can hit the ground running. So what we'll do is clearly articulate the objectives of each of our meeting, and so the whole team is on the same page. and, We'll try to do enough education for the group to understand why we're proposing certain things and what the state requirements are and just sort of defining the parameters in the box that the state has put us in in terms of getting a certified housing element. |
| 04:55:13.99 | Melissa Blaustein | Great, thanks. And then just one more question for Development Director Whelan. Under the optional costs, I saw that there was a branding piece. I mean, again, I'm really concerned about our spending. Right now we've had a really serious conversation around budget, really push for revising and avoiding anything that's optional. I don't know. what the thought process was around that in particular, and also just if there's anything in the scope that could be minimized, if it's, it just seems it's just so much money. but it seems like you spent a lot of time considering every aspect. So maybe we could think about why that's under optional as well and if it's just gonna be pursued the same way appeal is. |
| 04:55:58.88 | Lily Whalen | Thank you, Council Member Blaston. And I had the same thought that you had, and I think the group did as well, is that the branding or the proposal review committee did as well as that we could probably eliminate that optional task. I did talk with Beth from DeNovo, and I think we could probably reuse some of the branding we did with our general plan update. The idea is just to have a consistent look. So when people see that, they know that it's the housing element update in Sausalito. But so staff is actually recommending not including that. And so the total contract costs that you have a staff recommended does not include the grand branding and graphics. |
| 04:56:38.38 | Melissa Blaustein | Okay, thanks. Thanks for your hard work on this. Thanks for responding. I know that was a lot of questions. I'm really passionate about housing, so you'll get used to getting a lot of questions from me. Thank you. |
| 04:56:48.24 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, thank you. |
| 04:56:49.10 | Melissa Blaustein | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 04:56:49.38 | Jill Hoffman | Um, do either one of our working group members want to weigh in or council member Sobieski you want to weigh in. |
| 04:56:58.48 | Ian Sobieski | I like it. couple of questions just as a due diligence question. in your life. Someone tell me what the penalty is if we're late with our housing level. |
| 04:57:10.76 | Ben Ritchie | You want me to step in and take the first stab at that? So a few years ago, it used to be kind of a shame-shame, and then the state would hold back on transportation improvement funds so that you lose access to grants, lose access to transportation funds. With the new governor's administration in Sacramento, the Attorney General's office is very proactively litigating against cities who are not in compliance and so you run a substantial risk of direct litigation from the state and in the event they couldn't find you in continued non-compliance the state would then come in and impose zoning standards on the city that would accommodate the arena. And so basically the state would come in and say, here's your new density levels. Here's your new zoning. |
| 04:57:54.42 | Ian Sobieski | you Well, I don't mean to be a Our plan would be to be obstructionist, but I just mean if we're six months late, is any of that really a realistic threat? |
| 04:58:03.04 | Ben Ritchie | If you're running so excellent, thank you for discrepancies. So we've had some communities where they've said, you know what state forget you we're not going to do it and they've come down very hard. If you're running late, what happens is you go from an eight year cycle to a four year cycle and you don't have to do them more often. Thank you. |
| 04:58:20.15 | Ian Sobieski | Thank you. Um, then You sound great, Ben, in your... and your firm has a lot of options here. But I was just wondering if you could, well, I guess it's not really a question. Actually, I do have a question for you, Ben, In terms of this process, I've never been through it before, so I'll get asked this ignorant question, I guess. I'm not sure. but you know well maybe it's best if i showed a picture actually i'm going to share my screen because this is going to be like my question is going to be pertinent to this picture so here's a that I would never imagine anyone would consider to be suitable for housing, and I would never put it in a potential site. Um, And here is a place, the same place, I'm not sure. That's actually an actual location in Europe and here is the drawing of the building that was actually built there. It's just the original preliminary sketch on the left, same site. a building built that wrapped around an interchange cleverly and dramatically housing mixed use development with public park and um bunch of a bunch of units in an interchange. My question is, that possibility is because an expensive architect was actually involved and money was spent on architecture. A design problem was answered with design. And what I don't understand in this process is when we're trying to have 700 plus units, or if we get an appeal and we only have to do 500, It's still a dramatic number, fundamental design problem in Susolita will be how do we preserve our small town character, how do we preserve our working waterfront, how to preserve our circulation, Uh, How do we accommodate 500 plus units. MR. And that's a design architecture problem. And so I'm just wondering to what extent any of this money. is going to be spent on that. that we are spending money on, on Volumetric. you know, abstractions in the sites that are selected actually seem to be potentially to encounter because they seem really scary. Big gray blocks that are going to show what the volume of the building would be without any actual design. to turn people off to those very sites. It's kind of a lady question, I suppose, Maybe you can take a stab at trying to answer you |
| 05:00:50.83 | Ben Ritchie | I'll try and unpackage that. I'll start by saying, I'm going to say right up front, this is going to be an unpopular project and you're hitting the nail on the head and that's, We do. We knew this coming in and It has to do with the amount of public outreach. We recognize the controversy of this, but you've hit the nail on the head. plan for such a dramatic increase in density and number of units and still maintain your charm and character? And the answer to that is very carefully and it's going to be very challenging. The number one objective we need to meet as part of this project is to demonstrate to the state of California, specifically HCD, that you have zoning in place that can accommodate your fair share, not that you've planned for specific projects with good architecture and good design that will function well within the community. So it becomes an exercise in making space on the map. and so hcd has a set of criteria in terms of minimum and maximum acreages densities avoiding certain constraints access to water sewer staying away from unstable slopes and so we need to be able to find a certain number of sites at a certain number of acres on your map to demonstrate that you can accommodate your arena and the blunt answer is you don't have that now so there will need to be changes to your map and your density to accommodate this number that's been imposed by the state as much as we would love to come in and design awesome concept projects and show a architectural renderings of a new reimagined waterfront this is much more of a zoning and a mapping exercise to demonstrate that you have capacity rather than the development and delivery of projects with design components so essentially none of our budget is allocated toward architecture or architectural renderings the optional tasks on massing is going to help answer the question on how many views would this obstruct if we do this height at this proximity to the waterfront. I think we can do a little bit better than gray boxes that completely turn all people off. But the intent is to provide more of a massing simulation to model and quantify some of the viewshed impacts as opposed to architectural design for representative project types. |
| 05:03:06.22 | Ian Sobieski | I really appreciate that answer, Ben. Thank you. It's informative. I guess I have a question for my colleagues and maybe Lily instead. Also, I'm not privy to all the details of the second bid, the cheaper bid at $310,000. They bid that $380,000 cheaper. But it's kind of germane to my question a little bit, which is, what's the minimum that we need to legally comply with the law. And have we considered whether it's better to spend additional money. in a different way. I mean, this is the way housing elements have always been done. I guess they're done in other communities this way. Um, but But we have a particular problem right now. We've never had a rena number this big. We've never had a challenge like this. Is the same old approach really suitable? and appropriate for the challenge that we face as a community. Are we going to spend $800,000 to aggravate our town and not get closer to real solutions, to real problems, or is there a better way? where we can meet our legal requirements, with the minimum dollars. that we can get away with for work product that meets the criteria that Ben outlined. and spend additional dollars in some form or fashion. to actually solve the design, circulation, environmental, I'm not sure. issues. that will actually make a solution to the housing problem. in our town and isn't that perhaps a better way Thank you. That's nice. Question stirred by the reporter. right? |
| 05:04:47.15 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Maybe the vice mayor, I could weigh in on that. It looked like, Janelle, you wanna start and I can Thank you. |
| 05:04:52.80 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 05:04:52.80 | Janelle Kellman | Yeah, well, I just wanted to clarify Council Member Sobieski's very interesting idea, which is, are you suggesting that there might be a strategy that has not been wholly pursued, but let's say for example, that we said as a community, we're going to satisfy this entirely with ADUs and JADUs, and therefore we're not going to do this whole housing analysis for $800,000, $900,000. Instead, we're gonna figure out where ADUs and JADUs go and that's our strategy. Is that? an example of the type of off the beam path, more focused um, solution that you were kind of thinking about? |
| 05:05:27.94 | Ian Sobieski | I mean, I don't know if that's even possible to meet our numbers with that, but I suppose, I guess the thought was there's a legal requirement that was laid out in Lily's presentation for what a housing element needs to satisfy. and maybe even a version of Ben's analysis would be sufficient for meeting the gray boxes, let's say. the zones where housing could go. And it needs to show that we have places that that housing could be. but, a parallel effort or one that brushy My proposal, the thing I would love the Starman is, to actually continue with the thought of spending our money in a way that actually um, involves some solutions to the housing problems. No one's going to be excited about a gray box or anything like it. Whereas, I mean, look at the interchange thing that I showed earlier in my comment, right? If you said that they're going to put housing here, that's a non-starter. It's nonsensical. People will say, how can you put housing on a freeway? But it can be done, but it's designed. As you know, just saying what I've said before, I kind of think I'm not. |
| 05:06:36.97 | David (GSA Director) | Thank you. |
| 05:06:37.04 | Ian Sobieski | Thank you. |
| 05:06:37.06 | David (GSA Director) | Thank you. |
| 05:06:37.14 | Ian Sobieski | you be. We're, Working in this way can be divisive, not move the ball forward we're forced to work in this way because it's the law So we have no choice. We have to have a housing limit. It has to meet these criteria. but I'm just wondering about an approach that actually to the extent possible Um, brings in actual design to solve our design challenges. And again, the design challenge is we want to add hundreds of units And we want to do so in a way that does a couple of things, preserves our small town character. It tends to traffic and circulation flows. Um, uh, It interacts with neighboring properties, whether it's industrial or waterfront, in a way that's preservationist and enhancing, not deleterious. Um, And like these, the reasons people would fight the housing element is because they believe that the gray box is a threat. And this The only way you get a win-win is by a sufficient level of design possibility but convince neighbors that it's not a threat, that it's actually an enhancement. or at least the good compliment. to a built space. I'm not sure. This is what we talked about in the campaign, we talked about it as as a fundamental problem in the way we get things done in the town. And this is a decision point that cropped up, shame on me, didn't realize how far along this all was, we had to make a decision. But, But by launching into this path for $800,000, we're locking ourselves into a certain path. And I'm wondering if we shouldn't put our creative hat on a little bit and talk about this some more. So it kind of ties to Jill's question a little bit about what we have to decide now versus can wait a few weeks on. We definitely want to do the renapple, no doubt about that. but I do wonder if you shouldn't consider what we're trying to do All the things we know we care about, harmony in town, solving the design problem, actually meeting our legal requirements for the housing element, saving money in a time when our budget is under strain in this particular year. I think there are a lot of considerations. It's not just between proposal A, proposal B. |
| 05:08:52.33 | Jill Hoffman | So if I could, Lily, I think was gonna say something, Given the late hour and given council members, Sobieski's newness to this process and his, his, his enthusiasm for delving into this for so that he can have a better understanding of the process and what we're doing. I'm wondering if we want to move this to the next meeting, I mean, and just, Not, you know... for the purpose of further exploration of this, I do think, strongly that we need to do an appeal. whether or not, We were not, I mean, it's not entirely clear what's going to happen with the numbers. There are many communities that are united across the state that are, about these numbers and there's going to be a lot of I think push back on them. And so we want to be part of any, you know, effort to re-examine these numbers. I mean, I think we had the highest number County. of across all municipalities, which is ridiculous. considering that we're one of the also the smallest town I think other than Ross so I, you know, I feel like we have a good basis for an appeal. I think we should do one. The cost of it was not, you know. Not prohibitive. but I don't know, I'm just gauging everybody else's. That seemed to me to be the only urgent thing on our, issue. tonight. just throwing it out there. Working Group, what are your thoughts? |
| 05:10:37.52 | Janelle Kellman | Yeah, so I appreciate Council Member Sobieski's creative approach. I mean, it's nice to look at, you know, existing problems a little bit differently and not try to you know, keep doing the same thing over and over again. Part of the, The tension probably is that normally the applicant would propose a design, and so I don't know what we would have where we would fit in as a community or as a city to come with the design first, but maybe Ben and his team having heard some of that, that feedback have seen some unusual ways to push forward with something like this. And, and we have a lot of different resources that other communities don't have. As one of the things though, that we looked at when we spoke to Ben and his team on the actual scope of work. And I think someone had asked, you know, sort of deciding factor. And I think we just felt like DeNovo was going to give us the most, the fullest project. But there wasn't going to be, I think you used the phrase, nickel and dime, we weren't going to have some issues where we thought we needed either another meeting or another outreach or another iteration of something and we found ourselves paying on time and materials type basis and so while on paper you know it first looked like maybe one was more expensive than the other it ended up being kind of quite similar once we waited all out and I think I see Lily also nodding her head so and then we did go through it and we tried to figure out Lily actually did the laboring labor ring war on this, which was fantastic to say, okay, what don't we need? Or what's, what's can be optional at this time. And I know Ben and his team are very open to that. So I would be fine if, if we can, Lily, from a timing perspective, I mean, if we need to push it, I'm happy to continue to engage on this, but we did, what we could on the due diligence front end in deciding that this was the right firm for us, not withstanding the price tag. Now, whether or not the scope of work is the right scope, It may be the different question here. And if you would like to explore that more, I'm happy to engage on that. SO LET ME... |
| 05:12:34.21 | Melissa Blaustein | Let me. |
| 05:12:35.11 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. Bye. Bye. |
| 05:12:35.58 | Janelle Kellman | Thank you. |
| 05:12:35.62 | Melissa Blaustein | Go ahead. |
| 05:12:36.17 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 05:12:36.19 | Melissa Blaustein | Bye. |
| 05:12:36.31 | Jill Hoffman | What's up? |
| 05:12:37.08 | Melissa Blaustein | Thank you. |
| 05:12:37.13 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 05:12:37.25 | Melissa Blaustein | you I just want to correct one point for the record because Sausalito does not have the highest reen allocations in Marin County. There's several that are much higher. Just to be clear, there are others that are up. San Rafael's upwards, 3,220 is their allocation. Novato's 2,090. Mill Valley's 865. Larkspur's 979. So I just wanted to just make that point. Okay, sorry. |
| 05:12:59.38 | Jill Hoffman | All right. |
| 05:12:59.39 | Unknown | I think we shouldn't have said. |
| 05:13:00.47 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 05:13:00.52 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 05:13:00.81 | Melissa Blaustein | Whatever, I stand correct. |
| 05:13:01.97 | Jill Hoffman | Okay? Sorry. But really, okay, we're gonna about San Rafael and Novato. Okay, so really question to you is can we still do the appeal even if we don't can we can we get someone started on the appeal? I guess that's to Ben or Lily. and at least get started on that. And if we need to, further exploration |
| 05:13:25.41 | Sybil Boutillier | you know, |
| 05:13:28.85 | Jill Hoffman | between now and the next City Council meeting. Thank you. |
| 05:13:34.68 | Lily Whalen | Sure, thank you Madam Mayor. The council, if you would like tonight to direct the city manager to enter into a contract with DeNovo to JUST FOR THE PROCESS. preparation of the appeal. If Danodo is interested in doing that as a separate contract, we could, you could do, you could give that direction tonight. |
| 05:13:54.40 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | I dropped off for a while because of my internet connection. Why are we talking about pushing this off? |
| 05:14:01.61 | Jill Hoffman | Because Councilmember Sobieski is new to this and had some questions about process and questions about options and, you know, if there's no urgency about approving it tonight, it looks like this is the direction we're going to go. But if he wants some extra time, I thought that was reasonable. The only thing that seemed to be urgent was the appeal. So, that I definitely wanted to get that started on and get that filed. |
| 05:14:24.58 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | that I definitely want. |
| 05:14:28.49 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Okay, that's not what I heard the Community Development Director saying, and we've been pushing at our subcommittee level to make sure that we have adequate time to get our consultant on board. and get our housing element committee lined up to be on the right schedule. So we were already off schedule by having to resubmit the um, RFP. So, I mean, I would really like to move. I mean, we're gonna just start stacking up again if we don't keep moving. things forward. But if... I would strongly recommend we move forward tonight. |
| 05:15:00.59 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 05:15:00.60 | Jill Hoffman | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 05:15:00.98 | Jill Hoffman | I would say. Okay. Well, it's two weeks and if we can start the appeal, then I'm willing to give Council Member Sobieski that time to be comfortable with the situation and be comfortable with this. quite large expenditure. So, I mean, this is quite large. It's $900,000 that we're asking for close to it. I mean, I'm, you know, |
| 05:15:27.55 | Jill Hoffman | So the question I guess, The question I guess to Lily, I don't know, Susan, what was it that you didn't understand? |
| 05:15:33.98 | Ian Sobieski | I feel badly that Susan didn't hear some of what I said, I guess, so she's working at a big disadvantage. Right here. |
| 05:15:40.09 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | I heard your talk about design review and that process. So I definitely heard that. consultant, I think Ben gave a pretty cogent explanation of There's some things that the housing element is, and there's some things that the housing element isn't. I mean, I certainly think that we can engage architects and other design professionals in our discussions of the housing element to try to bring flavor and, you know, Um, color to the conversation, but it's a you know, at the end of the day, our committee had to evaluate who was the best consultant team to bring us over the finish line and to be successful. And this is gonna be uphill battle. It was, you know, when we did this, eight, seven years ago, we had 79 units and it was a huge battle. |
| 05:16:34.18 | Alice Merrill | Mm-hmm. |
| 05:16:34.97 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Thank you. So, and we thought, I think the vice mayor and I and two members of the planning commission felt and staff this team Well, that's not costly. could bring the best value to this process. |
| 05:16:53.26 | Ian Sobieski | Yeah, so I honor that, Susan. I, of course, didn't have the benefit of that in the whole way this Brown Act, for everyone's reminders out there in the audience to remind everyone. It's crazy to counsel people work on things deeply for a long period of time, and then it's presented to the rest of us to engage with. So, I'm engaging with it, and we just spent earlier tonight, looking at a budget that's in deficit, and now we're looking at an $800,000 expenditure. in my question only, and there was a competing bid for $300,000 that apparently would have met the minimum legal requirement, though it wouldn't be as good, missing all kinds of things. You know, like the apples, there's no... question I defer to the conclusion that DeNovo is the better firm and would deliver a better product for $380,000 more money. But still, just to quickly summarize what I said before, You know, we've never had a challenge like this before here in town. And even before, all these housing discussions always seem to pit everyone against everyone. The work product ends up being its source of contention. People are scared of the gray box that's next to their parcel because of the threat it implies. and, We actually have a design problem that needs a design solution. and I don't know. how to exactly solve it, but I'm proposing to my colleagues to consider it. a hybrid proposal or something that's different that actually solves the problem we're trying to solve, which is we want to Preserve everybody with small town character. our working waterfront hour circulation while also adding 724 units. And that's a design problem. that isn't. of the scope of the work we're talking about so what are some solutions if you spent you know, to the vice versa point, Typically, designers and developers are the ones that come in with their drawings. That's what we're kind of used to. That's not always the way it's done. The Freedom Tower in New York City wasn't actually initially proposed by developers, but presented by an architect. And after the winning design was selected, a developer was chosen, and the design changed alongside the developer. So architects work on solutions, design problems, and not all of them are buildable. And they often change with |
| 05:19:11.69 | Peter Pentmeter | with. |
| 05:19:12.06 | Ian Sobieski | Um, integrating with developers. one could imagine a scenario in which you spend $300,000 solving the minimum legal requirement, and now you've got $500,000 to pay for I'm not sure. for a master plan. for the community. that involves architects actually, designing the master plan, the way that we actually solve the problem of adding hundreds of units while keeping our small town character attending the traffic. And that's something that perhaps everybody could get behind in the whole community because they're actually looking at a real thing. not an abstract. So, I wouldn't bring it up if I didn't think it was actually potentially a pivotal decision, because it's gonna define a dialogue around something important for the next several years in our community. And this alternate path or a path like it you could actually unlock some secrets. It could be a framework of collaboration. of everybody working together towards a common goal instead of fighting one another because they're scared of what the gray boxes are |
| 05:20:16.12 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | I have some thoughts, but it looks like Ben wants to shine on. |
| 05:20:20.01 | Ben Ritchie | I'm trying to be very careful to not step into the council deliberations because I respectfully want to make sure you guys can have this out. I want to offer up a couple of thoughts because Council Member Sobiaski I very much appreciate and you know, the direction your line of thinking is going. |
| 05:20:26.21 | Unknown | I'm glad. |
| 05:20:33.16 | Ben Ritchie | are two things I want to make sure the council is cognizant of as you look at the I understand the sticker shock associated with our budget first and foremost Thank you. Given the high potential for litigation based on the unpopularness of how this project is likely going to go, you absolutely need an eir based on the level of growth that this is going to potentially add beyond what was analyzed in your general plan eir and nearly 200 000 worth of our budget is allocated towards a full a full-scale programmatic eir and i think our line item cost for that is a hundred and And I know it's, to something and change. So it's still a good price on an EIR. My point being is, I have no knowledge of the other proposal that you got. I haven't seen it. I haven't looked at it. But having done this for upwards of 20 years, you won't make it to the finish line with a mitigated NGDAC. This will trigger EIR territory, and you'll be looking at additional costs and schedule delays if you try and go the shorter sequel route. So that is a lion's share or a large chunk of the budget discrepancy that you likely see between the two proposals. And then your ideas and thoughts on enhanced design I think is fantastic. I think it's well grounded and well intentioned, but the state requirements are still needing to be checked and so the services you're describing to me while they sound like a fantastic idea candidly they strike me as add-on services because we still need to identify the density the map locations and the policies for supportive special needs housings that are required by the state and so you know bringing in excellent architectural design I think it makes it much more palatable I think it gets you projects that you know, look and feel on paper, like they're going to be more compatible with Sausalito, but I don't think it unburdens you from the requirement of hitting these minimum standards that we've outlined in our proposal to get this certified by HCD. So, up. I'll step back and let the council continue. I apologize. |
| 05:22:36.01 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, so back to Back to What I'm thinking is that because of the late hour and because of the urgency of the, need for us to move forward on an appeal. Um, And I think the need for or the wish for Councilmember Sobieski to do his own additional research and talk to Lily about this process and what the scope of options might be, and maybe, talk to whoever else he feels he wants to talk to about some more innovative approaches and whether or not that's going to be feasible. I feel like he would be able to do that in two weeks. Council member Sobieski, do you feel like you'd be able to do that two weeks? |
| 05:23:20.15 | Ian Sobieski | Well, I mean, I don't... want to carry the burden of the responsibility of all this. If you think my arguments have no merit, then we should just move on to none. |
| 05:23:28.02 | Jill Hoffman | No. |
| 05:23:29.30 | Ian Sobieski | up It is like... |
| 05:23:30.23 | Jill Hoffman | Do you think that's just the most satisfying? |
| 05:23:31.44 | Ian Sobieski | That's just the most satisfying. Yeah, I'm trying to give you |
| 05:23:33.37 | Jill Hoffman | Yeah, I'm trying to give you room to explore that if you think you feel like you need to explore it. |
| 05:23:37.71 | Ian Sobieski | I will. |
| 05:23:38.43 | Jill Hoffman | not going to, that's not going to, you know, impact us dramatically. |
| 05:23:42.63 | Ian Sobieski | But what I mean is that if my, Perspective doesn't. meet some minimum level of credibility in all your eyes that you think there might be something that would generate in your own shower ruminations on this subject. that would enhance our dialogue two weeks from now, then there's no point in delay. incredible thread here that you might think would enhance our engagement with this contract, then I think we should give ourselves those about two weeks. you and to give us a chance to think about this a bit. I think it's important. |
| 05:24:18.56 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Ian, I think what we can achieve in two weeks is that you can understand a little bit better what Ben was saying in terms of all of the technical requirements of a housing element that will meet the state law requirements and we can, I love your sentiments. I love the idea of a collaborative process. I love the idea of having beautiful well-managed housing here. but we are not gonna get someone that can do our housing element over the finish line with money left over to hire the kind of, visionary, people that you want. So if you think Janelle and I can go off and huddle with our planning commission colleagues and make that magic. with Lilly happen, I just think that that won't happen. That would not happen in two weeks and won't be able to happen on the timeline to get the housing element done but can we incorporate your your sentiments and your visions and you know that. that can help be a guiding force. So anyway, I just want to be realistic about what we could do in two weeks and what and what we can't. But I don't think we're gonna find a new proposal for the same amount of money that will do both things. Just to be, I mean, just to be realistic. |
| 05:25:47.64 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 05:25:47.69 | Ian Sobieski | Okay. |
| 05:25:47.78 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | And then can I also ask while I was |
| 05:25:47.79 | Ian Sobieski | And then can I also... |
| 05:25:50.34 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | I did call right back in, but did we talk about, it wasn't our recommendation at the committee to pursue the appeal? Um, immediate you know we didn't make that recommendation so I was just wondering where that That's... |
| 05:26:03.34 | Jill Hoffman | Councilmember Brown. |
| 05:26:04.03 | Melissa Blaustein | Alstein said something about not going forward with the appeal. I didn't say not going forward. I just wanted to know what the cost was, and I was trying to understand what the likelihood of it happening was so I could know why we were spending the money. I think we should go forward with it. I just had questions about it. |
| 05:26:06.56 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 05:26:06.58 | Unknown | Well, I didn't say that. |
| 05:26:17.11 | Melissa Blaustein | Thank you. |
| 05:26:17.12 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, because it sounded to me like you were saying that you didn't think it was going to be very effective and why bother spending the money on it using the money for? other purposes. Um, you know, under the contract. So sorry if I misheard that, but I, had that in my notes. Okay. We haven't done public comment, so unless we have, unless we have additional Questions? |
| 05:26:42.30 | Janelle Kellman | I'll just add Mayor Hoffman, just because Council Member Cleveland has dropped off. So I explained how the working group had looked at both and it wasn't really realized it wasn't apples to apples, that it really was apples to oranges. And when you looked at the things you actually had to have to meet the basic requirements, plus the things we anticipated we would probably need in the long term. We felt the better deal was with De Novo. because they wouldn't be piecemealing and nickel and diming us. And we just felt like they they We're the better group all around, so we were happy to move with them. But given some other council members concerns about the high price tag, which I think we all acknowledge and we all feel the pain around, there was some talk about, are there any ways to adjust this? Are there things in here that are nice to haves versus must haves? And I think you turned back in, just as we were establishing and has been articulated so many of the things here are things we really just have to have meet the basic NEWS. So that was just what you were mentioning. |
| 05:27:38.95 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 05:27:40.92 | Janelle Kellman | Thank you. |
| 05:27:40.96 | Jill Hoffman | THE END OF |
| 05:27:41.03 | Janelle Kellman | Thank you. |
| 05:27:41.06 | Jill Hoffman | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 05:27:41.11 | Janelle Kellman | Okay. |
| 05:27:41.67 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. OK, I'm going to open up Unless there's further questions, I'm going to open up public comment. |
| 05:27:47.96 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. Madam Mayor, we have two hands raised. We'll have Sandra Bushmaker first and then John DeRay. Sandra? You've been unmuted and asked to share your video. |
| 05:28:00.35 | Sandra Bushmaker | Good evening, everybody. I'm very pleased. Obviously I have sticker shock also. And I do realize that we're going to be spending $2 million on our general plan update by the time all is said and done. I do think we're in for a very rocky road. And I hope the consultant is willing to ride that rocky road with this community, because I think that these RHNA numbers have extreme potential to split communities. And this is what ABAG is doing for us. And I really hope that our appeal is aggressive and strong. And I would really, encourage this council to join with other communities who are fighting these RHNA numbers so that we have a coalesced approach to dealing with this, because I think this is a very, divisive, move and manner in which the housing crisis is being addressed. I am not convinced that Rena numbers is going to fix the housing crisis. I don't think it's gonna fix the affordable housing I think we've got a long road to go before those elements are resolved. And I think that this housing element is going to be a really Difficult. path for our community. And I, I'm not looking forward to it, I will say. I think it's gonna be very, very difficult and I hope that we join. the other communities that are fighting these numbers not because we want to I deny housing to anybody, but because we need to have numbers that work for the community, and work in an environment. I mean, I was on the landslide task force. I'm concerned about higher numbers. We already have problems up on Sausalito Boulevard with Chirt Falls, which, I have been in communication with the city on. I'll stop there. And I just want to say, pursue the appeal. And, um, any litigation with other communities. Thank you. |
| 05:30:09.93 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 05:30:09.95 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 05:30:14.54 | Heidi Scoble | John Dure, you've been unmuted and asked to share your video. Oops. Looks like you just got muted again. So you're unmuted. and you will need to unmute yourself as well. |
| 05:30:26.84 | John Dure | I thank you so much. |
| 05:30:27.78 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 05:30:29.94 | John Dure | I'm not going to do my, um, video. I just want to make a brief comment. Um, I was interested to hear Councilperson Sobieski's mention of this outside the box design approach. And it seems to me like if that could be investigated for the next couple weeks, I don't really see the harm in that. Especially since it'll be another two weeks before there is a housing element. committee chosen anyway. So it's not like that process would be delayed. So I just don't quite understand the |
| 05:31:03.39 | Unknown | Anyway. |
| 05:31:10.78 | John Dure | impact of a delay of a couple of weeks. So some of these, uh, concepts can perhaps be, or approaches could be investigated. Thank you very much. |
| 05:31:21.08 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, thank you. I don't see any other hands. Madam Clerk, do you see anybody? |
| 05:31:26.04 | Heidi Scoble | Madam Mayor, you are correct. There are no hands raised at this time. |
| 05:31:29.45 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, then I'll close public comment and Um, bring it back to us for further comment and perhaps a vote or perhaps a solution so i'll let um I want the working group. Kick us off. No. |
| 05:31:47.15 | Janelle Kellman | Well, I think, I mean, I'll just speak for myself, but I think both of us are ready to vote on this tonight. I mean, we did have the conversation embedded this, |
| 05:31:47.22 | Jill Hoffman | I think. |
| 05:31:55.64 | Janelle Kellman | within the working group. I don't have a problem. looking at it again in two weeks, staff has assured us that we're still, even though it's tight, we're still within the timeframes we need. or maybe if we can even parse out getting the appeal going. and then continue this just to look at the scope I'm totally open to that, but I do feel confident this is the right, that this is the right consultant for us. And I think they're gonna do an excellent job. Okay. |
| 05:32:22.18 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. I'm not sure. I don't know. I would probably lean toward the second which is do the let's get started on the appeal and then further consideration for the next two weeks and then bring it back. I mean, we could even put it on. Anyway. Put it on mainly for either an up or down vote in two weeks. or, If there's an alternate plan, I suppose we could consider that as well. |
| 05:32:48.44 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Thank you. Anyway. |
| 05:32:50.36 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 05:32:50.38 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | So could we just, given the difficulty that we had getting folks to bid on this project, I would just like to hear from the consultant about a delay and... any downsides that they see to that. Sure. |
| 05:33:03.29 | Unknown | Sure. |
| 05:33:03.76 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | I'm really you know, Thank you. Anyway. I would really like to retain the consultant that we have here tonight. Understood. Mr. Richie? |
| 05:33:15.57 | Ben Ritchie | Um, it. Yeah, I'll be very blunt. We're turning away clients right now for housing elements because of, you know, workload and staffing constraints. It will help us tremendously if we know that this is moving forward and we can plug it in and get started. The itemized cost for the appeal on the RHNA is based on the assumption that we're doing the larger scale of work in terms of assessing opportunity sites, beginning our mapping. I certainly can't tell you that the a la carte price shown at this option is what we would charge if that's the only task we were doing, as opposed to, you know, it's a nice little add-on to a larger scope of work. and i'll just be very blunt we've sharpened our pencils as much as we can lily was very aggressive in coming back to us and squeezing us with our budget we have no additional room to trim so in two weeks we don't have a lower price that we'll be able to come back to you with and if we get more creative in terms of design we can absolutely do that but the price goes in the other direction not downward but we have no additional pencil sharpening to do on our budget cutting. We're very confident that we've given you the lowest best price, and it would... I mean, obviously I'm here appealing for a contract approval, so this is no shock, but it would strongly be our preference that you vote on it so that we know if we're plugging in this into our work program or not, so we can either get started or make other arrangements. |
| 05:34:43.00 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Great, thank you. So I mean, with that response, and given that we have our budget at our next meeting, and who knows how many zillions of other things. I would really love to move forward with this tonight, the majority of the council feels otherwise. I just would like to indicate to the consultant that at least the working group has very, very strong support skills and their team and we really, really think that you're the right people for this job. |
| 05:35:17.97 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Councilman Bralstein. |
| 05:35:22.78 | Melissa Blaustein | I'm in favor of moving forward with the process of the housing element. I love all of Ian's ideas and I think they're great and wonderful and I would love to see them integrated. The more I hear about this and the timeline for And then the potential cost of the appeal being more, if we broke it apart would be really problematic. I'm just trying to find places we can save money, not spend more given the sticker shock and, and So I would be inclined to vote on it tonight just so that we can move forward and start working on the housing element. |
| 05:35:56.34 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 05:36:00.63 | Melissa Blaustein | but with having conversations around some of the ideas that council member Sobieski brought up. I just, I'm aware that this is a time sensitive issue and that we do have a lot on our agenda in the next two weeks, including reviewing all the applicants for the Housing Element Advisory Committee and making decisions on that. as well. |
| 05:36:19.92 | Ian Sobieski | Thank you. |
| 05:36:20.03 | Jill Hoffman | Mayor. |
| 05:36:20.39 | Ian Sobieski | Thank you. So could they all be safe? |
| 05:36:23.69 | Melissa Blaustein | Thank you. |
| 05:36:23.71 | Jill Hoffman | So... |
| 05:36:24.66 | Ian Sobieski | I was just gonna ask if there is a way and if we're moving towards voting on this, whether it's possible to take out some of the things I think actually could shoot us in the front. Peace. the gray box, the volume mass studies. that are part of the bid. Um, These are optional. uh, I think the volume of studies are included. I'm reading this right. |
| 05:36:48.49 | Melissa Blaustein | Could we authorize the spend and then work on the scope together and get to a point that council member Sobieski feels comfortable with or something along those lines so that it can still be. work done. |
| 05:37:01.09 | Mary Faust | Thank you. |
| 05:37:06.08 | Mary Faust | Thank you. |
| 05:37:06.12 | Lily Whalen | Yeah, that's not America. |
| 05:37:06.19 | Mary Faust | Thank you. |
| 05:37:06.27 | Unknown | I think that's just |
| 05:37:06.96 | Ian Sobieski | Okay. |
| 05:37:07.08 | Mary Faust | Bye. |
| 05:37:07.10 | Ian Sobieski | you |
| 05:37:07.17 | Tui Taw | Thank you. |
| 05:37:07.20 | Ian Sobieski | Thank you. |
| 05:37:07.81 | Mary Faust | Thank you. |
| 05:37:07.84 | Lily Whalen | Then we're going to... So the, the, um, Sorry, can you hear me okay? |
| 05:37:15.01 | Unknown | Again, yeah. |
| 05:37:18.42 | Lily Whalen | So the first question you had Council Member Blasti, I'm sorry. The second question was about authorizing the contract and then adjusting the scope of work, is that correct? |
| 05:37:30.28 | Melissa Blaustein | Just to help, I'm trying to figure out how we can shepherd Council Member Sobieski's requests around removing some of the gray box component. Sure. |
| 05:37:39.04 | Lily Whalen | Sure. So the massing studies are included as an optional task. So if the council does not want to include those, you can take those out of what you approve tonight. You could also leave them in as optional and if needed, that was the intention. then we would have them in our back pocket that we could use. to advance the effort. but they're definitely, they can come out of the scope of services if the council would not like to pursue that. |
| 05:38:14.48 | Jill Hoffman | So, Let me ask you this, and I think this might be a question for Ben too. Typically, when we get a bid for an RFP and it comes to a city council, especially a contract of this magnitude? Is it not? Is it not sometimes customary for |
| 05:38:31.27 | Unknown | You know, |
| 05:38:34.41 | Jill Hoffman | THE BEST OF I mean the bid to remain open until we are able to vote on it. I mean if we delay, Ben are you saying if we delay for two weeks? you're gonna withdraw your, offer. Thank you. |
| 05:38:47.74 | Ben Ritchie | No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that the |
| 05:38:47.79 | Jill Hoffman | No, I'm not. |
| 05:38:50.53 | Ben Ritchie | just, we're in housing season right now and we have housing clients stacking up and so we're literally on the phone this morning like okay we need to pass on this one we assume Sausalito is happening therefore you know we turned down two other projects this morning based on the assumption that we're gonna be working on Sausalito so I didn't intend that in any way as a threat if you don't vote now I'm gonna take my ball and go home that's that's not the impression I was trying to get or trying to give but |
| 05:39:09.56 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 05:39:09.68 | Ian Sobieski | I'm not sure. |
| 05:39:09.74 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 05:39:09.76 | Ian Sobieski | THE FAMILY. |
| 05:39:09.85 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 05:39:18.23 | Ben Ritchie | just from our perspective with the number of housing elements happening right now we are trying to line up the workload the staffing obligations and you know just it's 2023 seems like a long way away but in terms of ramping up housing elements and the mapping and the outreach and the engagement plans you know, we'll be looking to hit the ground running sooner rather than later. And so I want to get the impression we would withdraw the, uh, withdraw our proposal. And then the one other thing I would add in terms of the visual signalizations, I can offer two thoughts on that one. |
| 05:39:41.10 | Unknown | I. |
| 05:39:50.95 | Ben Ritchie | you know, From my perspective, it may be who of you to leave that task in there. And as we work our way through, if you don't want us to do it, tell us don't do it. And then of course, you'll not be charged for it. We only, of course, bill for the tasks that we complete or the tasks that we undertake. I also I want to dispel a notion that there will be these hideous pictures of brown boxes that look like they belong in a, you know, in a Soviet block. know housing they will we just wanted to make sure we articulated in the scope of work that we were not going to do detailed architectural renderings but the software is fantastic we can take local architectural types we can take sample business you know building typology they will not be towering boxed masses that just look horrific we have found particularly in communities like Sausalito that it can be a helpful tool what's going to happen with this project is we will lay out a number of sites we will start playing the the map game of where we can accommodate and there's going to be people that oppose certain sites because they're positive that you know buildings will block view sheds and for us to come back with a tool and say here's some mapping and some view shed modeling to either validate your concern or invalidate your concern or provide additional information to allow the council to make informed decisions about what the implications of some of these sites might be so it's likely a useful tool but if you feel it'll be detrimental we'll be happy to pull that out of the scope of work and it won't be as ugly bricky as as you might imagine |
| 05:41:22.30 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, thanks for that. Okay, so it sounds to me like We could delay for two weeks, that you're not gonna withdraw your bid, that, um, that Could you get started on the appeal? Thank you. |
| 05:41:38.03 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | He said he might, but at a higher price. |
| 05:41:40.69 | Sybil Boutillier | Thank you. |
| 05:41:40.71 | Ben Ritchie | No. |
| 05:41:41.06 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | I'm not. |
| 05:41:41.13 | Ben Ritchie | I'm sorry. |
| 05:41:41.17 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Bye. |
| 05:41:41.57 | Ben Ritchie | I would need to go back to Beth and I would need to figure out what effort we would do for the appeal that is specific to the appeal only that is not otherwise included in our contract scope of work if we were to get the entire housing element |
| 05:41:56.49 | Jill Hoffman | I got you. Yeah, I gotcha. All right, guys, what do you want to do? It's 12. |
| 05:42:00.74 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | STORM. |
| 05:42:01.45 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 05:42:01.47 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Thank you. |
| 05:42:01.50 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 05:42:01.94 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | I'll do respect to everyone's comments and concerns, especially Ian, I understand where you're coming from. I know how this feels, but I'm gonna make a motion and we'll just see where this goes. to adopt the resolution authorizing the professional services agreement with DeNovo planning group. for the amount. listed and with the massing studies as an optional task. |
| 05:42:25.65 | Jill Hoffman | Okay. Is there a second or an alternate motion? that's, Sorry, that was a second for the vice mayor? Okay. Second from the vice chair, okay. Madam Clerk, is there an alter motion? hearing nothing. Right. Thank you. |
| 05:42:42.35 | Unknown | I'm sorry. |
| 05:42:42.42 | Ian Sobieski | I'm going to go on. |
| 05:42:43.10 | Jill Hoffman | and I can see it. Leave her. |
| 05:42:45.93 | Ian Sobieski | you Thank you. I'm not going to make an alternate version. I respect the, you know, I, um, I'll just make the comment before we vote. I do feel I'm going to vote no. only because I feel, I want to emphasize that I feel like Um, I think, This is super important. Thank you. It is, as Sandra mentioned, an opportunity to divide the community for the next two years. There's a opportunity here to get a different outcome, but I think it's going to require a different process. housing element process as it looks like is seems like an echo of the general plan process that I don't think brought the community together. And I think we've got to do something different. I don't know what that is. We're choosing not to explore that now. We're saying we're out of time and we're going to go with this approach. I'm not sure. And, uh, But I'd be ashamed if that's the last word. So I sort of put it to you, I'm not on the housing element group, Um, So I don't know how to move this ball forward. It's not in my wheelhouse or to my charge. I can help, please let me know. I feel like if we don't do something fundamentally different, and I don't think, and I think there are ways of doing it differently, We're not going to be happy with the outcome. And So, I would hope that. in some form or fashion that we can add to this. |
| 05:44:09.58 | Janelle Kellman | Councilmember Sobieski, would you feel that you had enough time if we move this to the next meeting with that. It allows the time to explore Or is that not enough time? |
| 05:44:23.27 | Ian Sobieski | I don't see that, well, I don't know. I mean again, it's not It's a, Well, I don't know. I guess I could work on it for the next two weeks, but it's like that. I mean, it's hard. It seems like a far-fetched ambition to upend the process here in two weeks. And we've got to make this decision Are we going to have a different process I mean, do you imagine it? are closer to these issues, I guess maybe some of you have gone through this Before, you've heard what I've had to say. I think there are people we could have talked to in the process that might have cast additional Um, perspectives, you know, architects like to my point that I was making with you, vice mayor about, you know, who does these designs, of course you get proposals from developers, but these sort of master plan solutions for a town like ours come from architects. a design problem, these designers to help solve it. |
| 05:45:21.86 | Ian Sobieski | Thank you. |
| 05:45:22.08 | Ian Sobieski | Thank you. that. I'm not saying that that substitutes for the housing element, which is the legal requirement. It does. seem to be an essential part of a workable process that's actually going to bring the community together and result in designs that people feel excited about. or at least when they're opposed to, understand exactly what they're opposed to, afraid of. Thank you. |
| 05:45:46.80 | Ian Sobieski | Thank you. |
| 05:45:46.81 | Ian Sobieski | some of the boogeyman in the closet that's not defined. Um, So the way we've set the table seems destined to fail. the key criteria. of our ambition, which is to have a process that, is actually collaborative. and solves the design problem of adding 700 plus units while preserving all these things we care about. Um, |
| 05:46:09.06 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Council member Fabieschi, I mean, I hear absolutely everything you were saying. And I think I already said, I don't think the vice mayor and I can go back and in two weeks have, with staff have some new solution. And we were lucky to get two bids to do the legal thing. legally required work that we need to get done. I would just say, It's not, we have not set this table. This is something that we are required to do. and there's very few people that can accomplish it. that, you know, the, you know, And I think, What I'm hearing is that what we need to do is have a separate conversation possibly With? our consultant. at a meeting after we've done the budget where we brainstorm ideas about how to make this process as collaborative and as effective as best as we can within the time frame set by the state within the arena set by the state. and within the legal requirements set by HCD. So that we do our best to bring every community engagement tool, every mediation type arrangement and every design process to this. But I don't think if we took two weeks, I don't think we can come back with another you |
| 05:47:35.07 | Ian Sobieski | Thank you. |
| 05:47:35.08 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | proposal. |
| 05:47:35.61 | Ian Sobieski | Just... |
| 05:47:35.67 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Thank you. |
| 05:47:36.18 | Ian Sobieski | I'm just struck by the fact that the penalty for being six months late isn't anything but |
| 05:47:36.52 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | I'm just struck by the |
| 05:47:40.72 | Ian Sobieski | So I guess I'm not as |
| 05:47:43.00 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | That's not true. We'd have to do another housing element in four years as opposed to eight. That is a massive expense and a massive community |
| 05:47:47.67 | Ian Sobieski | That is amazing. |
| 05:47:51.40 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Right. |
| 05:47:52.36 | Ian Sobieski | I forgot about that. Sorry. It's late. I forgot about that. |
| 05:47:56.45 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | I know it's late, but I mean, |
| 05:47:57.66 | Ian Sobieski | Thank you. |
| 05:47:57.98 | Ian Sobieski | Thank you. |
| 05:47:58.00 | Ian Sobieski | Right. |
| 05:47:58.35 | Ian Sobieski | you |
| 05:47:58.49 | Ian Sobieski | You're right. |
| 05:47:59.22 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | I respect everything you were saying, but I really feel like we might need to move on. |
| 05:48:04.38 | Janelle Kellman | One last thing, because we're starting to Excellent dialogue because I think maybe we can consider the consultant's work plan as a, the building blocks, right? But how we conduct the process and how we solicit feedback and information and who we're soliciting feedback and information from I think a lot of what you're discussing and proposing should get embedded in that. So I don't want to lose that thread regardless of what happens tonight, because I think that that's an important part of those workshops. |
| 05:48:36.63 | Ian Sobieski | Yes, I'll vote no, but with no malice. Hopes for the best. |
| 05:48:39.94 | Janelle Kellman | just like that. |
| 05:48:39.99 | Jill Hoffman | Okay. |
| 05:48:40.54 | Ian Sobieski | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 05:48:41.49 | Jill Hoffman | Hold on, we're not ready for you to vote no yet. It's never been. We have a motion, we have a second. Can we have the Can we have the clerk call the roll please? |
| 05:48:52.54 | Heidi Scoble | on some of the surveys key. Councilmember Blaustein? Council member Cleland Knowles. Vice Mayor Killman. |
| 05:49:06.04 | Heidi Scoble | Yes. Mayor Hoffman. |
| 05:49:09.18 | Jill Hoffman | Yes. Okay. Motion passes, 4-1. Very good. Moving along. THE FAMILY IS Rocketing my life. This is an easy one, 4th of July, fireworks it says Mike Langford but there's no staff report so I'm just going to give the update and if Mike if you disagree you can weigh in So. Um, We, about six weeks ago, I started revisiting whether or not we were gonna do fireworks. I roped in council member Sobieski and brought along Mike Langford to try to figure out a plan. The thought was always that If we were able to do fireworks, it would only be fireworks for the 4th of July. And this was back when we thought we were going to, restrictions were going to be raised on June 15th, but we really didn't know. And it was, there was some uncertainty. The thought was always, we were going to fundraise and then it was going to be, supported by our community, it wasn't going to come out of our budget. So, but up until 10 30 yesterday morning, it looked like maybe we were going to be able to pull it off, but our vendor, decided that they had had a flood of requests for fireworks in the, in the last two weeks, including San Francisco, who's now gonna do fireworks. And so, So that vendor doesn't look like they're gonna be available. Mike was going to try to find you know, the Hail Mary. other vendor and so Mike Did you? Do we have any update on that? You had one last guy you were waiting to talk to? |
| 05:50:40.86 | David (GSA Director) | There was one last person. He said for me to give him a call tomorrow. |
| 05:50:45.37 | Jill Hoffman | Okay. So, |
| 05:50:46.31 | David (GSA Director) | Bye. |
| 05:50:47.36 | Jill Hoffman | Yeah, right. I mean, it's a Hail Mary, right? But I think the direction maybe that I'm looking for, and the thought was always that the direction from city council was, you know, Do we try to go forward and move forward and try to lock down fireworks? understanding nothing else, just fireworks. And also understanding that the, Situations changed a little bit in that San Francisco will be doing fireworks on the 4th of July. So we will have people in town lined up along our waterfront, trying to look at at least water for fireworks from San Francisco. I mean, I'm willing to put the time and effort in to try to get donations and try to get it covered. I, I, I think probably council member Sobieski is too. And I think maybe Mike is too, Anyway, I just wanted to throw it out to the rest of the council and see take a temperature on where you guys are at the path, make sure we're on the path that the council supports. So that's it. And then we'll move on to our next item Or I guess we'll take public comment maybe if there's anybody that wants to comment on it. That's kind of the summary, Mike, any, any, Mike or Council Member Sobieski, any objections to anything I just said? |
| 05:51:58.49 | Ian Sobieski | I'll just, you might point out that that we did have more than $10,000 in the pledges and just the few phone calls that we did. |
| 05:52:06.22 | Jill Hoffman | Yeah. |
| 05:52:06.45 | Ian Sobieski | Thank you. |
| 05:52:06.47 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. Yeah, yeah. So, Okay, Mike, anything? |
| 05:52:10.64 | Ian Sobieski | Thank you. |
| 05:52:10.65 | Unknown | No, you nailed it. Thank you. |
| 05:52:12.83 | Jill Hoffman | Thanks for staying up so late. You even put on a tie. Okay, anybody, anything from the other council members? |
| 05:52:20.24 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Yeah, I have a couple of thoughts, and thank you all for your efforts on this. really appreciated. I had understood from the interim city manager that there were a number of other issues that needed to be worked out, including police staffing issues approval from Southern Marin Fire, |
| 05:52:42.78 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 05:52:42.88 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | et cetera. And I, you know, the more I thought about it, I mean, |
| 05:52:45.31 | Unknown | about it. |
| 05:52:47.29 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | while it would be really, exciting to have this be pulled off. You know, it might be another possibility to make this kind of a Sausalito only event a little bit later in the summer. So, August or something when staff has a little bit longer to plan for it, have kind of a community celebration coming out of COVID. of the time. to organize it, make sure we've got all our ducks in a row, and make it a reason that people wouldn't otherwise come to Sausalito, so also boost our economy. Um, you know, so I just throw that out. Um, it feels like we're just a little, um, you know, kind of, we didn't have a staff report. We don't, I don't know if any of these issues that the interim city manager raised are actual issues or if they're not. We had a staff report for the last time that we were supposed to to hear this. And I'd also be interested in whether other jurisdictions in Marin like Marin County at the county fair are doing displays and how kind of overrun we think we'll be if this happens. I'm not. |
| 05:54:01.69 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, Councilmember Blaustein or Vice Mayor? |
| 05:54:07.29 | Janelle Kellman | Oh, it's... Yeah, I'll... You guys have done the legwork. It sounds like you're willing to continue to do the legwork. It's not coming out of the city budget. I can support these efforts. And here's why. Council member Cleveland Knowles is, around doing something later in the year where we bring in visitors. But I think I heard tonight that the community wants something there they came in and they said and not in firework specifically but they said bring back our community events where are our events we want something to celebrate we want something to to gather around something to feel good about And we probably had 10 or 12 speakers who said that, And so I think that's really swaying my thinking right now on that. |
| 05:54:54.78 | Jill Hoffman | Okay. |
| 05:54:55.07 | Melissa Blaustein | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 05:54:55.32 | Jill Hoffman | Councilmember |
| 05:54:55.79 | Janelle Kellman | I love you. |
| 05:54:55.98 | Jill Hoffman | you |
| 05:54:56.03 | Melissa Blaustein | Thank you. If you can fundraise for it, you guys have done a lot of leg work But if it's not possible on the 4th of July, then I do like Councilman Cleveland Knowles' idea about doing it at a later date in the summer, especially if you already have enthusiastic donors. |
| 05:55:06.37 | Unknown | in this. |
| 05:55:10.12 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 05:55:10.83 | Melissa Blaustein | still have some fireworks this summer if we're unable to get a vendor for the 4th of July. |
| 05:55:15.96 | Jill Hoffman | Yeah, so the idea is either it comes together or it doesn't. You know, like if the police... |
| 05:55:20.11 | Ian Sobieski | Thank you. |
| 05:55:22.35 | Jill Hoffman | The public safety can't support the, that's, you know, they can't support. So either it happens or it doesn't. And we should, I mean, for love of God, we should know by the next city council meeting. If we don't know by June 22nd, then, you know, it's up. I don't know, I'm willing to, yes, Councilmember Sobieski has his, |
| 05:55:36.14 | Ian Sobieski | No, no, no. Just the heads up, I think you wanted to give our colleagues is that one potential thing we may do is put into currents an opportunity for people to donate. |
| 05:55:47.60 | Jill Hoffman | Yeah. |
| 05:55:48.21 | Ian Sobieski | So I wanted you to have that heads up |
| 05:55:50.67 | Jill Hoffman | Yeah, and then if it doesn't come together |
| 05:55:50.69 | Ian Sobieski | Thank you. |
| 05:55:53.10 | Jill Hoffman | now then we would save that money and do it later in the summer or we even even for next year right then we would already have a jump on it |
| 05:55:58.28 | Ian Sobieski | I'm going to be the Mm-hmm. |
| 05:56:00.08 | Jill Hoffman | So I do. |
| 05:56:00.19 | Ian Sobieski | doing it worse but well that's one approach the other was we thought of doing it with pledges that people would fulfill if we met. |
| 05:56:08.22 | Unknown | That was true. |
| 05:56:09.01 | Ian Sobieski | the budget set. I know. The mayor donated. I did too. So did the mayor. and that's with the Madden, but it's like several other people. |
| 05:56:17.63 | Ian Sobieski | them. |
| 05:56:18.94 | Ian Sobieski | And so this can be done on a tax deductible basis, by the way. So we learned. so that can make an influence impact as well. |
| 05:56:27.74 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, so council members will be asking, I will work on it and whatever our pledge or funding mechanism, we'll figure that out tomorrow. And, or it is tomorrow, what am I saying? So, Okay, so thank you for that direction. That's how we'll move forward. I'm not sure. I'll open it up for public comment real quick. I'm not seeing any hands. |
| 05:56:51.76 | Heidi Scoble | Madam Mayor, you are correct. There are no hands raised at this time. |
| 05:56:54.86 | Jill Hoffman | Very good in public comment. Okay, so we had two items that we moved to the end of the, or not the end, but in between seven and eight, and those were two things, those were, Public comment matters not on the agenda. So I'll open that up right now. I'm not seeing any hands. |
| 05:57:16.75 | Heidi Scoble | Madam Mayor, you are correct again. There are no hands raised. |
| 05:57:20.24 | Jill Hoffman | and I'll close public comment on that. The next is committee reports. Do we have, I have a couple of committee reports things that I actually need some feedback from the council. If anybody wants to go first, they're welcome to, or otherwise I'll just jump in. |
| 05:57:35.36 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | for it. I don't have much, I don't have anything to report to me. |
| 05:57:39.21 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. Okay, so I have a couple things in the context of our homeless So I attended the MCCMC, well, several things in the last two weeks. So on, on, Um, may May 26, actually I think there were all of us or most of us were there. at the MCCMC leadership and assembly member, Mark Levine was there. And one of the things he talked about was AB 1845, which is, a bill that passed in the state assembly, just passed on June 10th, and it was read for the first time on June 11th. And what that does is it, creates a in office to end homelessness for the state and so a bunch of the the different and various you know, efforts to end home, you know, for homeless efforts would be under one office in the state of California. So that would be a tremendous thing to I think, make the whole all of our efforts more effective. And so keep an eye on that. That's coming. MCCMC homeless committee on 6-2 |
| 05:58:52.38 | Unknown | I'm sorry. |
| 05:58:55.04 | Jill Hoffman | Mayor Kate Collin had floated an idea in past meetings. that the municipalities of Marin County would donate, not donate, I'm sorry, um, fund, um, IN ADDITION TO THEM. an increased ability for the county to have case workers Um, administer housing vouchers. And so that was one of the things that was holding back the ability to give housing vouchers under the Marin Housing Authority. was the lack of caseworkers. The idea was that the cities donate about 2% of their American income rescue program funds. And so there's a chart. There's calculations, different cities based on population, which by the way, or percentage which is also based on population because that's how the American rescue program. There's a chart, that the MCCMC Homeless Committee put together The different towns are considering it. San Rafael. I believe already approved their submission Novato tonight. approve their contribution And so the idea is that you know, we would get the ability for our our tent encampment to be able to use a greater number of housing vouchers would be available for them. And then we would be able to do that because there would be additional case workers. This is not up for a vote. right now, obviously, because it's not on our agenda, but I am bringing it up under committee reports and I'm seeking any objections from the city council for us to consider it at our next city council meeting. So by way of this is probably gonna be a future agenda item, but there is some urgency because we want to participate. I believe we're gonna wanna participate in this. And so I'm gonna be talking to, I think, Um, some other leadership people in Marin County in the next week to make sure that I understand what Sausalito would be afforded under this plan. So our spend would be about between |
| 06:01:21.18 | Jill Hoffman | around between 30, either 31,000 or 53,000, depending upon which formula that you're looking at. So that's kind of the range that we would be looking at. but it would allow the county to hire eight more case management workers. And the total would be About $2 million. If you add up all the the contributions and the County would be contributing 1.5 1.165 million. And then the city's contributions would be about $834,000. That's by way of the committee report, um, Does anybody have a knee jerk reaction that they would be opposed to that? I mean, my plan is to probably bring it back at our next city council meeting. |
| 06:02:11.81 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Mayor, I'm supportive obviously of the goal, but we did, you know, in our budget tonight, we saw that 100% of the $1.7 million that we have allocated from the AARP is already dedicated in our budget. to our other things. So we just need to add that to the list of, things that are going to come out of our reserve or some other dedicated, some other funding that we can't spend. So that's the, you know, I think that's direction to the, to add that and I'm, you know, yes, I think it's a good, collaborative program. I would just say like the last collaborative program we did with the MCC MC homeless committee was the mobile showers and it's worked out really well. AND I THINK we should. be good. County partners. |
| 06:03:05.99 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, so understanding this is not up for vote, right? This is just for feedback on this program and that I'm gonna continue to explore it. So, and it may come back, as either a the gen item or as for our budget discussions on the Finance Committee. |
| 06:03:24.74 | Melissa Blaustein | Thank you. |
| 06:03:25.74 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 06:03:25.77 | Melissa Blaustein | Okay, all right. I just wanted to add that I brought this up in committee reports at the last meeting because this came up at the MCCMC meeting a month or I guess two weeks prior. And so I submitted the, what they had suggested to interim city manager Raines. So she's looked at it for the budget. And I think, so I think that finance director Francis should have at least the proposal from a few weeks ago. And it's 115 vouchers from the recovery program, unless that number changed in the last two weeks, which I hope- |
| 06:03:26.45 | Mary Wagner | Right. |
| 06:03:54.88 | Jill Hoffman | What did I say? Did I say 150? Yeah, it's |
| 06:03:57.70 | Melissa Blaustein | Oh, sorry, my apologies. Yeah, it was 115. Yeah. Just to, it may already be in consideration because I know she had considered it for the budget and I will stop talking about it now because the city attorney will tell us it's not intended. |
| 06:03:57.72 | Jill Hoffman | Yeah. |
| 06:04:11.76 | Melissa Blaustein | was that? |
| 06:04:11.97 | Jill Hoffman | They're caught. Oh yeah, there you go. Thank you. Okay, my other update is just super quick. I met with the, Racial Justice DEI Task Force Leadership Subcommittee with Marin City. I met with Damian Morgan, who's the chair of Marin City Community Services District and Dr. Etoko Garcia, who's the superintendent of the Sausalito emergency school district just to talk about you know, for sort of first steps and to gauge, you know, get their input on what they felt would be most impactful for their community. Cause the idea, as Councilmember Blousey and I have been discussing is we want to do something that's meaningful and impactful with regard to this effort, especially with regard to the long standing relationship that we have with Marin City. It was very interesting. Dr. Garcia said the number one thing that he thought that we should do first, is a healing process between our two communities. And then through that healing process, the other goals, and actual specific things that we can partner on and move forward on would emerge from that but he thought that the the process of us talking to each other in the context of some historic you know, review historic meaning in a broader context of racial justice and diversity, equity, inclusion. And he had some very interesting ideas. He had about five sort of multimedia program ideas. followed by a facilitated discussion, which I thought was great because it kind of melded together the, things that we had been talking about with regard to training and on DEI efforts and And so I thought that was a great idea. And then And also to have it rotate between Marin City and Sausalito. and to have our city librarian help facilitate and their folks on their side facilitate on the Marin City hosted efforts. And so I talked forwarded, um, to our inner city manager at the time and our librarian Abbott Chambers He's all in. in the short term, that's one effort. The other is also as council member Blousey and I have discussed, is some facilitated discussions within our own staff and within our city council about diversity equity inclusion training so Now that we have a new city manager, especially with regard to the staff and us, I think it's now is a good time to sort of re-engage in how and when we want to schedule those things. So those are the two efforts from I'm not sure. the racial justice task force. Also want to throw out that, Marin City's fifth annual Juneteenth celebration is on June 19th. and that I'll be reaching out to the same. I'm in a group tomorrow. for the next day about how Saucelida can support that and how we can Um, you know, participate in that celebration in Marin City. Okay. And that's the update. There are other updates, but those are the big ones. Sorry, who wants to go next? |
| 06:07:45.54 | Janelle Kellman | We talked about my big updates. We heard from EDAC, machine shop and housing elements. Those are probably the most robust ones, so I won't repeat any of that. |
| 06:07:54.66 | Jill Hoffman | Okay. |
| 06:07:54.96 | Janelle Kellman | Thank you. |
| 06:07:54.99 | Jill Hoffman | Anybody else got any |
| 06:07:55.99 | Janelle Kellman | COMMITTEE UPDATES. |
| 06:07:56.65 | Jill Hoffman | Board. |
| 06:07:57.34 | Ian Sobieski | Yes, yes. The day before yesterday now was EDAC, Parks and Rec, and we got an update on All of them tonight, including a letter from the Parks and Rec Commissioner, Chair asking for Increasing the budget for parks and rec |
| 06:08:14.10 | Melissa Blaustein | exciting up well update sort of from disaster preparedness we're meeting tomorrow but just everybody who's still with us thanks those of you that are still on there is a evacuation drill this saturday it's going to be at southview park At 10 AM, there's a Southern Marine Fire Department, kind of a mini smaller size evacuation drill. So if you can be there, please attend and learn about how to safely evacuate and how to prepare a go bag and meet members of our fire district. |
| 06:08:44.02 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, great. Okay, anything else? Councilmember Cleveland Knowles, anything? |
| 06:08:52.71 | Jill Hoffman | I'm going to go. |
| 06:08:53.67 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Everything, anything was already on the agenda. to your friends. |
| 06:08:56.98 | Jill Hoffman | part. |
| 06:08:57.30 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Thank you. |
| 06:08:57.31 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 06:08:57.60 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Thank you. |
| 06:08:57.62 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 06:08:57.63 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | and, you know, |
| 06:08:57.70 | Jill Hoffman | Yeah, those were big ones, right? |
| 06:08:58.95 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Yeah. |
| 06:08:59.07 | Jill Hoffman | Okay. |
| 06:08:59.36 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | So |
| 06:08:59.96 | Jill Hoffman | I'm ready now. Okay, well moving along then to item eight on our agenda. Chris Zapata, welcome. This is your big moment. You've waited all night. Yeah, but... |
| 06:09:11.78 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 06:09:12.70 | Jill Hoffman | Give us your update and then we'll take public comment that. Okay. |
| 06:09:19.20 | Chris Zapata | Wonderful. Thank you. One note to report. is to say that The Moran Municipal Water District is holding a public hearing on their urban water management plan and their water storage contingency plan. That's going to be held on June the 15th. At 7.30 it's a virtual public hearing. You can get information on it at www.morinwater.org. And given the condition we find ourselves in with water, I think it's important to public know this. And just quickly, I want to say thank you very much for The work you've done tonight, the public that watched and the staff that did it, I'm sure I have more to say at another time when there's more time. So thank you. |
| 06:10:00.97 | Jill Hoffman | . Thanks and welcome. Second day on the job, excellent work. Um, Okay. That's it. Futures and items. Okay, so I talked about one. Do you have a comment on any of that? Was that? Yeah, sure. I don't have a comment. |
| 06:10:15.56 | Unknown | No, no, no. |
| 06:10:17.60 | Jill Hoffman | You're right. Okay, I'm gonna open public comments I'm not seeing anybody. I'm going to close. |
| 06:10:26.36 | Heidi Scoble | Madam Mayor THE END OF |
| 06:10:27.34 | Jill Hoffman | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 06:10:27.54 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 06:10:27.65 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 06:10:27.71 | Heidi Scoble | Thank you. |
| 06:10:28.13 | Jill Hoffman | Okay. Okay, close. I'm closing public comment. Okay, future agenda items. Anything other than what we've already talked about. |
| 06:10:38.29 | Ian Sobieski | I'm just reminded that in Chris Apata's contract is the specification of specific milestones associated with his, performance bonus and we have a deadline to establish those so we need to have a process for doing so |
| 06:10:51.52 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Okay, thank you for that. Yeah, to that end, I was going to put in Another plug. for a strategic planning session. Now that we have our new city manager on board, and to really ramp up for our next, our two year budget next year. I really think we should start that process. And I think that would also be a good venue for starting the discussion with our city manager about what Ann just talked about, the benchmarks. |
| 06:11:21.12 | Ian Sobieski | Okay. I'd like to second Susan's request for the strategic planning session. |
| 06:11:26.07 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Thank you. |
| 06:11:26.08 | Janelle Kellman | Okay. |
| 06:11:26.39 | Susan Cleveland Knowles | Thank you. |
| 06:11:27.89 | Janelle Kellman | Okay? That is... It doesn't have to be, I mean, sometime the next couple of weeks, but Ian and I are working on a a scope for an undergrounding committee to be reinvigorated So the city is helping us with that and we hope to bring some suggested language to the council, for the council to weigh in on and help us shape so that we can get that subcommittee back up and running. |
| 06:11:50.13 | Janelle Kellman | Okay. |
| 06:11:50.99 | Ian Sobieski | and there is a recall election coming. So we've already discussed the potential for amending 1128 add two words to allow parking lots to also be parks there if we're going to do that to save money and commensurate with this ballot, then that has to be done. sometime soon. So they allow them to make a decision. |
| 06:12:14.04 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 06:12:14.06 | Jill Hoffman | Okay. Okay. Anything else? If not, Okay, then we're adjourned. Thank you guys. Good job. Bye. |
| 06:12:23.49 | Unknown | Right. |
| 06:12:24.20 | Jill Hoffman | You do? Thanks staff, thanks to staff. You guys are awesome as always. |
Vicki Nichols — In Favor: Supported funding for historic preservation inventory, emphasized need for sea level rise planning in Tidelands Fund, and urged immediate funding for planning department as revenue-generating. ▶ 📄
Joe Burns — Against: Questioned feasibility of $160,000 revenue from B of A building due to potential delays from RF process, tenant improvements, and rent abatement. ▶ 📄
Carolyn Revell — In Favor: Advocated for funding to maintain parks and green spaces, requesting $50,000 for gradual return and $85,000 for pre-COVID maintenance levels to protect city investments. ▶ 📄
Tricia Smith — In Favor: Advocated for Parks & Rec funding and special events, emphasizing their importance for seniors and community heart. ▶ 📄
Sandra Bushmaker — Neutral: Stressed importance of operational efficiency in budget process and making it a policy position post-budget approval. ▶ 📄
Mary Faust — In Favor: Supported funding for Parks & Rec, including event supervisor and maintenance, expressing confidence in economic recovery and need to maintain park investments. ▶ 📄
Wendy Richards — Against: Urged correction of business license tax errors, highlighting unfairness to home-based businesses subject to gross receipts tax, and called for immediate action. ▶ 📄
Sybil Boutillier — In Favor: Highlighted importance of parks for older adults (40% of voting residents are 60+), advocating for program and maintenance staff to prevent deterioration of new installations. ▶ 📄
Morgan Pierce — In Favor: Supported beautification efforts and robust community development department to maintain institutional knowledge and serve residents/businesses effectively. ▶ 📄
Jim Gabbert — In Favor: Emphasized Parks & Rec events as vital for community unity and Sausalito's uniqueness, advocating for more funding to support events that bring people together. ▶ 📄
Shelby Van Meter — In Favor: Urged against reduction in landscape maintenance funding, requesting at least $25,000 for contractor support for cleanups and neglected sites to protect investments. ▶ 📄
Julie Myers — In Favor: Advocated for SEIU members' COLA and 10% furlough restoration per MOU, and supported Parks & Rec events for community connection. ▶ 📄
Virginia Ginny Irwin — In Favor: Supported park funding for age-friendly parks and maintenance, suggesting $10 per resident could fully fund parks, and advised against costly machine shop renovation. ▶ 📄
Raylene Gorman — In Favor: As Parks & Rec Commission chair, advocated for event programming, event coordinator reinstatement, and maintenance funding, noting events' cost recovery and community importance. ▶ 📄
Doreen Gennard — In Favor: Stressed need for event coordinator to plan community events, emphasizing their self-funding nature and role in post-pandemic community reunification. ▶ 📄