City Council Meeting

City Council Meeting Summary

Time	Item	Item Summary	Motion Summary	Comment Summary
00:00:01	None: None	The provided transcription data contains brief, fragmented conversation between unidentified individuals regarding travel and a general positive sentiment (00:00:01). There is no formal presentation or councilmember discussion related to a specific agenda item in this segment (00:00:04).	No Motion	0 Total: 0 In Favor 0 Against 0 Neutral

00:00:22	I.: CALL TO ORDER AND ROLL CALL - 4:00 PM	Walfred Solorzano opened the City Council meeting on March 3, 2026, providing details on the location and how the public could view the broadcast via cable and online platforms (00:00:22). Mayor Steven Woodside officially called the meeting to order and directed the clerk to conduct the roll call (00:00:46). Following the roll call, Mayor Woodside announced that the council would proceed to a closed session regarding items C1 through C4 and invited any public comments regarding those specific items before the session began (00:01:01).	No Motion	0 Total: 0 In Favor 0 Against 0 Neutral

00:01:24	II.: CLOSED SESSION - 4:00 PM	Steven Woodside announced that the meeting would adjourn to a closed session (00:01:24). There was no presentation or discussion of the items to be covered in the closed session during the public portion of the meeting.	No Motion	0 Total: 0 In Favor 0 Against 0 Neutral

00:03:27	III.: RECONVENE TO OPEN SESSION - 5:00 PM	The meeting was officially reconvened to open session by Walfred Solorzano (00:03:42), who noted the meeting's availability via Zoom, the city website, and cable TV. Mayor Steven Woodside formally called the business meeting to order (00:04:00). Following the Pledge of Allegiance (00:04:08), a roll call was performed, noting that Council Member Cox, Councilmember Sobieski, and Mayor Woodside were present, while Councilmember Hoffman was expected to return shortly (00:04:26). Mayor Woodside reported that while the council discussed four matters during the preceding closed session, there were no reportable actions taken (00:04:42).	No Motion	0 Total: 0 In Favor 0 Against 0 Neutral

00:04:57	1: SPECIAL PRESENTATIONS, MAYOR'S ANNOUNCEMENTS & CITY MANAGER REPORTS - 5:02 PM	Mayor Steven Woodside opened the item by recognizing Women's History Month and inviting the Vice Mayor to introduce a special guest (00:05:01). Vice Mayor Melissa Blaustein introduced Sausalito artist Tiffany Schlain, highlighting her work as a renowned feminist artist and author, specifically mentioning her 'Dendro-feminology' tree ring installation which was featured on the National Mall (00:05:12). Schlain discussed the history of her artwork and invited the community to an upcoming event at the DeRosa Museum featuring Nancy Pelosi (00:11:44). Natalie Butts from the Small Business Administration (SBA) provided a report on disaster recovery loans available for residents and businesses affected by recent tidal flooding, noting the April 6th deadline for physical damage claims (00:14:41). City Manager Chris Zapata updated the council on upcoming king tides, a community survey for Gate 5 Road, and safety projects including the Spencer Firehouse (00:17:12). Councilmember Ian Sobieski requested clarification on the budget for the Spencer Firehouse project, specifically inquiring if the total allocation was $750,000 or $860,000; staff clarified that the total budget, including contingencies, is approximately $860,000 (00:18:54). Councilmember Jill Hoffman presented a 'sanukite' wind chime gift from the Mayor of Sakaide, Japan, following her recent leadership trip and visit to the sister city (00:23:17). Mayor Woodside concluded the presentations by highlighting an upcoming community exchange trip to Japan scheduled for April (00:26:13).	No Motion	0 Total: 0 In Favor 0 Against 0 Neutral

00:27:27	2): COMMUNICATIONS - 5:08 PM	This item provided an opportunity for members of the public to address the Council on matters not listed on the agenda. The discussion featured comments from residents regarding city transparency, local business ordinances, and code enforcement issues. One speaker highlighted progress made by the MLK Corp Yard Public Task Force (00:27:44) and the formula retail ordinance, while expressing concerns about the challenges of opening a new business under current regulations (00:28:49). Another resident requested urgent city intervention regarding ongoing municipal code violations at a neighboring property, specifically mentioning an illegal water heater, fence issues, and an unpermitted temporary structure (00:31:25). The Mayor clarified that the Council is legally unable to respond to or discuss matters not on the agenda but confirmed they were taking the feedback into account (00:32:03).	No Motion	2 Total: 0 In Favor 0 Against 2 Neutral
00:27:44 Michelle was Neutral: Thanked the Council for transparency regarding the MLK Corp Yard Task Force and the formula retail changes, but expressed discouragement regarding the complexity of Ordinance 1022 and the difficulties it poses for local entrepreneurs wanting to open businesses. 00:29:47 Lizanne Hague was Neutral: Requested that the city enforce municipal codes regarding a neighbor at 103 South Street, citing three specific violations: an illegally installed hot water heater, a non-compliant fence with offensive stickers, and a temporary Amazon storage box that has exceeded the 60-day limit.
00:32:31	3): CONSENT CALENDAR - 5:20 PM	Mayor Steven Woodside introduced the consent calendar, covering items 3A through 3G (00:32:46). Councilmember Melissa Blaustein recused herself from Item 3C, which involved financing for the Spencer firehouse, due to her residence being located within 100 yards of the station (00:33:04). Councilmember Walfred Solorzano and City Attorney Sergio Rudin discussed the legal requirements for recusal, noting that for renters, the standard is based on potential impacts to the leasehold rather than strictly distance (00:34:09). The Council decided to vote on the items in two blocks to accommodate the recusal (00:36:19).	A motion was made to approve items 3A, 3B, 3D, 3E, 3F, and 3G (00:36:19). A separate motion was made to approve item 3C with Councilmember Blaustein recused (00:36:38).	2 Total: 1 In Favor 0 Against 1 Neutral
00:35:09 Mark Palmer was In Favor: Welcomed Alexandra Anderson as the new sustainability manager and expressed strong support for the Turney Street project. 00:35:51 Alexandra Anderson was Neutral: Introduced herself as the new Resiliency and Sustainability Manager for the city of Sausalito.
00:36:44.14	3.C: Authorize Staff to Proceed with Soliciting for Construction Bids for Tenant Improvements at Fire Station 2 with an Engineer Estimate of $750,000 for Construction	The provided transcription for this item only captures the final voting process. There is no recorded presentation or specific discussion from councilmembers regarding the tenant improvements at Fire Station 2 within this data. The item appears to have been bundled with others for approval (00:36:51).	A motion to approve the item passed with a vote of 4-0 and one abstention (00:36:44).	0 Total: 0 In Favor 0 Against 0 Neutral

00:36:54	5) BUSINESS ITEMS - 5:30 PM: BUSINESS ITEMS - 5:30 PM	Steven Woodside introduced the business items portion of the agenda, noting that there were no public hearing items scheduled for the evening. He directed the council to begin with the first business item, 5A (00:36:54).	No Motion	0 Total: 0 In Favor 0 Against 0 Neutral

00:37:05	5.A: Appeal of Business License Tax Category Reclassification pursuant to Sausalito Municipal Code section 5.04.230 filed by KKMI Sausalito, LLC and waive penalties imposed on audit assessment in the amount of $29,920.80 pursuant to Sausalito Municipal Cod	The item involved an appeal by KKMI Sausalito, LLC against a tax reclassification resulting from an audit by the city’s consultant, HDL. Staff and HDL argued that KKMI, a boat repair facility, should be moved from Category 1 ($1 per $1,000 gross receipts) to Category 3 ($3 per $1,000) because 70% of its revenue is derived from services such as labor and storage (00:46:42). Staff recommended waiving the $29,920.80 in penalties due to KKMI's good standing but upheld the tax increase of $36,117 (00:47:39). Paul Kaplan (CEO) and Cindy Revelle (Controller) of KKMI argued that Category 3 is intended for professional services requiring high-level licensure (like law or medicine) and does not fit a boatyard, which sells physical parts and performs industrial work (01:31:10). Councilmember Cox questioned the lack of notice given to the business before reclassification (00:51:27) and noted the city originally placed them in Category 1. Councilmember Hoffman argued that boatyards fit the definition of manufacturing and retail found in Category 1 better than the professional service definitions in Category 3 (02:18:36). Councilmember Blaustein emphasized the need for a specific maritime tax category to support the working waterfront (01:20:11). Councilmember Sobieski expressed concern regarding the precedent this might set for other repair businesses but ultimately supported the appeal to show commitment to the maritime industry (02:27:54). Mayor Woodside concluded that the language of Category 3 was not a clear 'catch-all' and did not apply to a shipyard (02:10:37).	The City Council passed a motion to grant the appeal, overturn the Finance Director's reclassification determination, waive all associated penalties, and classify KKMI in Category 1, while directing staff to return with a plan to clarify tax categories for maritime and other service businesses (02:06:00).	5 Total: 4 In Favor 0 Against 1 Neutral
01:52:38 Babette McDougall was In Favor: Expressed embarrassment over the city's treatment of a cherished local business and suggested the city should eliminate middleman consultants like HDL. 01:54:21 John DeRay was In Favor: Argued that maritime businesses are part of a critical economic ecosystem and that the 0.3% tax rate is egregious for businesses the city wants to attract. 01:56:18 Adrian Brinton was In Favor: Stressed the importance of prioritizing maritime industries and suggested creating a specific category for maritime and industrial businesses with lower rates. 01:57:59 Karen Culligan was In Favor: Stated the code is not clear enough to support a reclassification and that the council should uphold the appeal to fix the ambiguity in the ordinance. 01:59:19 Lorna Newland was Neutral: Shared a personal account of the difficulties and lack of accountability when dealing with the city’s third-party tax consultant, HDL.
02:30:39	5.B: Receive and File an update regarding the Coloma Street Sidewalk Project	Public Works Director Kevin McGowan provided an update on the Coloma Street Sidewalk Project, which involves installing a sidewalk along the north side of Coloma Street and making access improvements at Ebb Tide for the New Village School (02:32:13). The design includes planters for crape myrtle trees (02:33:47), solar-powered flashing beacons (RRFBs) at a mid-block crossing (02:34:25), and a proposed raised crosswalk at the school entrance (02:36:00). Councilmember Ian Sobieski inquired if the Council could immediately mandate a four-way stop at the Olema/Coloma intersection (02:49:00). Traffic Engineer Andrew Lee and the City Attorney advised performing a warrant study first to provide legal documentation and manage liability risk (02:49:14, 02:53:53). Councilmember Joan Cox argued for 'common sense' safety measures, noting that neighbors have long requested stop signs to protect children on the school route (02:55:18). Councilmember Melissa Blaustein raised concerns about keeping the street clean during construction (03:01:32), while Councilmember Jill Hoffman suggested beautifying the existing chain-link fence with vines or paint (03:03:07).	The Council passed three motions: 1) To direct staff to conduct a warrant study for stop signs at Olema/Coloma and return to Council if the engineer finds they are not warranted, including recommendations on how to make them warranted (03:17:36); 2) To include the linear 'tree trench' bioretention system as a bid alternative to determine pricing (03:21:07); and 3) To approve the installation of raised crosswalks at both the Coloma mid-block crossing and the New Village School entrance (03:25:59).	5 Total: 5 In Favor 0 Against 0 Neutral
03:04:11 Mark Palmer was In Favor: Speaking as the Sustainability Commission Chair, he recommended a linear 'tree trench' system for bioretention. He noted this subsurface system fits within limited space without encroaching on the park while filtering stormwater before it reaches the bay. 03:09:03 Carolyn Revell was In Favor: Representing Sausalito Beautiful, she appreciated the continuous planting strip for trees and endorsed the exploration of the tree trench system. She also suggested narrowing the road further up to accommodate more street trees. 03:11:16 Babette McDougall was In Favor: Emphasized the importance of 'placemaking' and child safety. She noted that many drivers currently ignore stop signs and urged the Council to implement local voices into the final solution. 03:13:12 Lorna Newland was In Favor: A long-term resident who supported the project and mentioned the dangers of speeding in the MLK parking lot. She expressed a willingness to wait for the project to be completed correctly with effective speed bumps. 03:15:23 Karen Culligan was In Favor: Representing the PBAC, she strongly supported the speed table crosswalk at Tomales and Coloma, arguing it is a 24/7 traffic calming measure that increases pedestrian visibility on a designated safe route to school.
03:27:18	5.C: Review and file a report regarding the Parking Lot 1 Reconstruction project and provide direction to staff on whether to proceed with the development of design documentation for the recommended alternative	The Council transitioned to the discussion of the Parking Lot 1 Reconstruction project (03:27:32). Councilmember Joan Cox confirmed the transition to the item (03:27:21), but before Public Works Director Kevin McGowan could begin his presentation, Steven Woodside requested a short five-minute break (03:27:36). The provided transcript ends as the Council goes into recess.	No Motion	0 Total: 0 In Favor 0 Against 0 Neutral

City Council Meeting Transcript

Time	Speaker	Text
00:00:01.13	Unknown	I'll see you when you're driving there.
00:00:04.52	Unknown	And I think that's going to be a good thing.
00:00:22.58	Walfred Solorzano	Good afternoon, Mayor, members of the City Council. Tonight's City Council meeting of March 3, 2026 is being held at 420 Ditho Street, City Hall Council Chambers,
00:00:34.51	Walfred Solorzano	It's also being broadcast live on cable TV channel 27. It's a broadcast on our city's website and on, and on zoom.
00:00:46.23	Steven Woodside	I'll call this meeting to order and ask the clerk to call the roll.
00:00:50.13	Unknown	Councilmember Cox.
00:00:51.97	Unknown	HE IS ABLE TO TAKE THEM.
00:00:52.02	Unknown	.
00:00:52.04	Unknown	Yeah.
00:00:52.09	Unknown	here.
00:00:52.63	Unknown	Councilmember Hoffman.
00:00:53.84	Unknown	Here.
00:00:54.71	Unknown	Councilmember Sobieski.
00:00:56.77	Unknown	Vice Mayor Blaustein.
00:00:58.22	Unknown	Here's the first one.
00:00:58.37	Unknown	Thank you.
00:00:58.47	Unknown	Thank you.
00:00:58.70	Unknown	And Mary Woodside.
00:00:59.63	Unknown	here.
00:01:01.41	Steven Woodside	First item of business is a closed session. Items C1 through C4 as listed on the posted agenda.
00:01:11.50	Steven Woodside	We will go into closed session and then come out promptly before 5 p.m. to start the regular business meeting. In the meantime, are there any public comments on closed session items?
00:01:24.31	Steven Woodside	Very well, we'll now adjourn to closed session.
00:01:45.52	Unknown	Bye.
00:03:25.01	Unknown	to your right.
00:03:27.73	Unknown	Thank you.
00:03:28.62	Unknown	It's massive.
00:03:33.15	Unknown	Thank you.
00:03:33.16	Unknown	Thank you.
00:03:35.31	Steven Woodside	Thank you all for being patient, and I think we can get started.
00:03:38.83	Unknown	Thank you.
00:03:38.87	Unknown	Mr.
00:03:38.97	Unknown	STREET.
00:03:39.03	Unknown	work.
00:03:41.06	Unknown	Okay.
00:03:42.56	Walfred Solorzano	Okay, tonight's regular meeting is being held at 420 Little Street City Council Chambers. It's also being broadcast on Zoom. It's being broadcast on the city's website and on cable TV channel 27. And we now reconvene to open sessions.
00:04:00.30	Steven Woodside	Very well, I'll call this business meeting to order. And first we'll have the Pledge of Allegiance.
00:04:08.31	Unknown	Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
00:04:15.53	Unknown	One day.
00:04:19.00	Unknown	and justice.
00:04:20.02	Unknown	FRIENDS.
00:04:24.77	Unknown	Thank you.
00:04:24.78	Unknown	And will you call the roll?
00:04:26.03	Unknown	Yeah.
00:04:26.66	Unknown	Thank you.
00:04:26.96	Unknown	Council Member Cox.
00:04:28.66	Unknown	Yeah.
00:04:28.75	Unknown	Here.
00:04:29.32	Unknown	That's where Hoffman.
00:04:32.65	Unknown	She will return.
00:04:34.12	Unknown	She will be returning in a few minutes.
00:04:36.12	Unknown	Okay, sounds good.
00:04:37.08	Unknown	Councilmember Sobieski.
00:04:39.70	Unknown	Weissmere Blastham? Here.
00:04:41.10	Unknown	Mary Woodside.
00:04:42.50	Steven Woodside	I am here. And we just returned from, resumed this meeting from a closed session. There was nothing to report out regarding
00:04:51.02	Steven Woodside	Being the matters that we discussed in closed session, we did discuss all four matters that were on the printed agenda.
00:04:57.27	Unknown	We do have
00:04:58.60	Unknown	a couple of
00:05:01.18	Steven Woodside	kind of special presentations a little bit off agenda, but it's important because this is Women's History Month, and I'm going to ask the Vice Mayor to make an introduction.
00:05:12.52	Melissa Blaustein	Great. Thank you very much, Mayor Woodside. We are very lucky to have with us in Sausalito many incredible artists, but one of them, Tiffany Schlain, is a renowned feminist who has done a lot of significant work, both in material art and film, supporting women and women's rights across the country. In fact, her feminist tree ring was displayed on the National Mall in Washington, D.C., and she currently has a show at the DeRosa Museum in San Francisco, where this Saturday she will be celebrating and honoring International Women's Day with Speaker Nancy Pelosi. So Tiffany is a revered member of our community here in Sausalito with a studio in town and also a well-known author and feminist. So I'm honored to have her with us to say a few words on Women's History Month. Please come forward.
00:06:02.54	Tiffany Schlain	First of all, thank you. I'm so happy to be here with all of you. I wish I found the image of me going to Sausalito Preschool, which is where I went to school.
00:06:10.94	Tiffany Schlain	I'm a native through and through. I went to Sausalito Preschool, then Mill Valley Middle School.
00:06:16.44	Tiffany Schlain	And then I went to Redwood and I went to UC Berkeley. So I'm a product of the fine public schools in the Bay Area.
00:06:22.25	Unknown	And I have a studio and so I love it.
00:06:24.00	Tiffany Schlain	Melissa is one of my best friends. So I'm very happy to be here. What a perfect way to launch.
00:06:30.13	Unknown	National Women's History Month. So
00:06:32.29	Tiffany Schlain	I'm going to just speak for about five or seven minutes about my work.
00:06:35.90	Unknown	And, um,
00:06:37.27	Tiffany Schlain	The opening image is I grew up right near Mere Woods, and my family was really our sanctuary, and I spent a lot of time amongst the oldest trees in the world, which had a great influence on my work today. I then...
00:06:50.35	Tiffany Schlain	And I founded the Webby Awards. I don't know if this is delaying.
00:06:54.67	Tiffany Schlain	I spent about a decade running the highest honor for the web,
00:06:59.63	Tiffany Schlain	Then I sold the Webby Awards to go back to filmmaking and
00:07:03.56	Tiffany Schlain	I made a lot of films that explored ideas around technology and nature.
00:07:07.49	Tiffany Schlain	And and and I make a lot of films about neuroscience and
00:07:12.35	Tiffany Schlain	My family and I, one day a week, we turn off all screens from technology and ended up writing a book about it. And I spent a lot of time back in mere woods and in the trees. So
00:07:23.39	Unknown	around right during COVID, I was
00:07:26.68	Tiffany Schlain	walking amongst Muir Woods where I had grown up, and you know the tree ring at the entrance of Muir Woods, which is so magnificent.
00:07:34.58	Tiffany Schlain	And I remember looking at here, I've spent my life making films about feminist issues and women's rights and reproductive rights, and I have two daughters.
00:07:41.48	Unknown	My husband and I have two daughters.
00:07:43.27	Tiffany Schlain	And I looked at that tree ring and I thought there's not one woman on that tree ring.
00:07:47.08	Tiffany Schlain	And it just hit me like a bolt of lightning that I needed to create a feminist history tree ring. I wanted to see that. I wanted my daughters to see that.
00:07:54.91	Tiffany Schlain	And what a different way to look at history through a feminist lens.
00:08:00.23	Tiffany Schlain	So I started making art and then when I decided to take on this making a
00:08:06.12	Tiffany Schlain	tree ring. I had never done that before, but I found the biggest tree ring that I could find at a salvage lumber yard.
00:08:12.58	Unknown	And, um,
00:08:13.83	Tiffany Schlain	I spent a lot of time sanding it. I distilled all of my movies that I've made over the years on feminist history, distilled all the salient points. And it's 50,000 years of history.
00:08:24.07	Tiffany Schlain	And I should also mention my father, the late Dr. Leonard Schlein, was not only a surgeon in the Bay Area, but he wrote a lot about feminist history and also goddess culture. So the very first fact on this tree ring is a fact that almost every ancient civilization worshipped goddesses 50,000 years ago, and that's a much better place to start the story. Because where you start, feminist history matters. So if you start that we worship goddesses is a fantastic way to look at history. But of course it has 32 points. My hand burned all the words on with pyrographers and this is dendro feminology.
00:08:59.22	Tiffany Schlain	a feminist history tree ring. Like I mentioned, I distill both coming as being worshipped as goddesses to the witch burnings.
00:09:07.29	Tiffany Schlain	to all the trials and tribulations that women have suffered. But I do like to remind people that the founding of our country, women had the right to reproductive rights up until four months. We have had leadership back and forth all throughout history. And of course, I end it with today as an invitation for people to step up and think about what we do today matters.
00:09:28.14	Unknown	It was on the National Mall.
00:09:30.05	Tiffany Schlain	And we did a lot of activations around that.
00:09:34.12	Unknown	We invited people. Sorry, it's going a little...
00:09:37.19	Unknown	Um,
00:09:38.56	Tiffany Schlain	We invited a lot of feminist organizations to come together in Washington, D.C.
00:09:42.94	Tiffany Schlain	We did an Equal Rights Amendment rally, and we had a Shabbat on the National Mall, which was really beautiful.
00:09:50.42	Tiffany Schlain	And then we also invited people to ask them, what milestone do you want to see next on the Feminist History Training? So it was a very interactive art installation on the National Mall. And then after that, we took it to Madison Square Park in New York City. We had the cast from Sufts, which is a fantastic musical, and we all wore white.
00:10:08.68	Tiffany Schlain	in honor of the suffrage movement. And then we've taken it all across the country. It was most recently in St. Louis, Missouri. We always use bringing the feminist history treating as a way to bring together
00:10:20.90	Tiffany Schlain	leaders locally that want to expand and protect women's rights.
00:10:24.79	Unknown	This is a shot from St. Louis in the fall.
00:10:27.75	Tiffany Schlain	And of course, and then here's my husband, Kenny's a professor at UC Berkeley. And we have an art show that Melissa mentioned in San Francisco at DeRosa SF. It started in LA as part of the Getty Pacific Standard Time show. And it was very inspired from mere woods and the magnificent trees in Sausalito and the Bay Area. And we both re-imagine all the different kinds of timelines that could be told. We have a tree of knowledge. We have a history of science through mathematical equations and, um,
00:10:55.37	Tiffany Schlain	And we have a Jewish history. We also, this seems very relevant, look at tree inequities in different neighborhoods. And we're, this is Ken. That's in San Francisco. Oopsie.
00:11:06.46	Unknown	I don't want to skip past my husband.
00:11:09.02	Unknown	Thank you.
00:11:09.14	Tiffany Schlain	Now we're at DeRosa. DeRosa has the foremost collection of Northern California art in the world, and we're very honored to be at their new museum location in San Francisco.
00:11:20.06	Tiffany Schlain	And we are doing a very big event this Saturday.
00:11:24.09	Tiffany Schlain	And it's really exciting. This tree ring was made in the Bay Area. It's traveled all the way around the country. Now it's back home in my hometown. We have an incredible lineup. We have Speaker Pelosi. We have the CEO of the ERA Coalition, Planned Parenthood, She the People, so many incredible organizations. And it's free and open to the public.
00:11:44.50	Tiffany Schlain	We just announced Speaker Pelosi today, so we're going to get full really quickly. But if any of you want to RSVP, please do. And this is where you RSVP at letitripple.org. It's going to be an inspiring afternoon of hearing ways we can protect and expand women's rights. We also have a lot of other events coming up, and you can go to ancientwisdom.art. The show is up until April.
00:12:08.63	Tiffany Schlain	And there's a lot of joy at these events in these very intense times. So I'm very happy to present my work here. You can stay posted on the art or my work by going to my website or my newsletter. And thank you. And it's Women's History Month. It's a beautiful month to celebrate all of women's achievements and to continue pushing for more women's rights in our beautiful town of Sausalito and definitely around the world because we are a shining light example for women's rights around the world. Thank you.
00:12:36.38	Unknown	up.
00:12:36.52	Unknown	Thank you.
00:12:38.36	Unknown	Thank you.
00:12:41.25	Unknown	Thank you, Tiffany.
00:12:43.57	Steven Woodside	Well, it's a great start for celebrating in our community, and we will continue to do so. And some of these events around that will celebrate women's history, we have significant
00:12:55.40	Steven Woodside	members of our community, past and present, who are doing amazing things, and we want to make sure that the public is aware of them.
00:13:07.10	Unknown	All right.
00:13:08.75	Unknown	Thank you very much.
00:13:12.40	Steven Woodside	We now have, I think, Mr. City Manager, we have a follow on report
00:13:17.81	Unknown	Thank you.
00:13:17.91	Unknown	Yes, she's...
00:13:18.34	Unknown	from the small business
00:13:19.03	Unknown	administration.
00:13:19.45	Unknown	Thank you.
00:13:19.48	Unknown	question.
00:13:19.84	Steven Woodside	Do you want to kick it off? She's sitting up there, Mayor. Okay, very well.
00:13:24.75	Unknown	Thank you so much. And thank you for allowing me to speak tonight. My name is Natalie Butts, and I'm a public affairs specialist with the Small Business Administration's Office of Disaster Recovery and Resilience. So SBA's ODR&R office is here in the community helping survivors recover in the aftermath of the tidal flooding and king tides that occurred between December 31st through January 5th and damaged a significant number of local homes and businesses. Our mission is to help communities prepare for, respond to, recover from, and mitigate against disasters of all types. And we assist in the economic recovery of communities after disasters by providing long-term low-interest loans to businesses, nonprofits, homeowners, and renters. I know my colleague Yolanda Farrins was here two weeks ago presenting about our emergency disaster declaration, which covers the counties of Humboldt, Marin, Contra Costa, Del Norte, Mendocino, San Francisco, Siscaiu, Sonoma, and Trinity. I'm here tonight to remind the council about the upcoming deadlines for the disaster loan program and the disaster loan outreach centers that are still open.
00:14:41.62	Unknown	The application deadline for physical damages is fast approaching on Monday, April 6th. However, the deadline to apply for economic injury disaster loans is not until November 3rd of 2026. And there are three ways to apply for an SBA disaster loan.
00:14:59.23	Unknown	The first is by applying online at lending.sba.gov or by email at disastercustomerservice at sba.gov. A second way is by calling the SBA directly at 800-659-2955.
00:15:15.80	Unknown	But the third way to apply and what I would recommend as the best way is by going to one of the three disaster loan outreach centers that are currently in operation within Humboldt and Marin County.
00:15:28.43	Unknown	Their customer service representatives are available to help answer questions about our disaster loan program.
00:15:34.60	Unknown	explain the application process and help individuals complete their application. And this in-person individualized attention is often the
00:15:44.78	Unknown	best way to complete an application. There's a disaster loan outreach center located at 5845 Humboldt Hill Road in Eureka. It's open Monday through Friday, 9am to 6pm.
00:15:58.48	Unknown	Another disaster loan outreach center is located at Madeira Town Hall at 300 Tamalpais Drive in Kortam, Madeira. And it's open Monday and Tuesday from 1030 a.m. to 6 p.m. and Wednesday through Friday from 1030 a.m. to 7 p.m.
00:16:17.48	Unknown	And the third is at Stinson Beach Community Church at 32 Belvedere Avenue, and that's open Monday to Friday from 1030 a.m. to 7 p.m.
00:16:28.57	Unknown	Thank you once again to the City Council for allowing me to present tonight.
00:16:32.33	Unknown	I wish those in this community who were impacted by the disaster all the best as they work to recover. And I left flyers and fact sheets about the disaster loan program and this disaster declaration on the table in the back of the chamber.
00:16:47.69	Unknown	If there are any declaration, any questions about.
00:16:51.26	Unknown	this declaration, I can be reached at natalie.butts at sba.gov or by text or phone at 916-866-2143. Thank you.
00:17:02.57	Steven Woodside	Thank you very much. That's helpful information. Mr. City Manager, anything to add?
00:17:07.53	Chris Zapata	I do. You want me to get into my report? Because it's a segue from what she just spoke about, Mayor, if I can.
00:17:12.53	Unknown	Sure.
00:17:12.68	Unknown	Thank you.
00:17:12.70	Chris Zapata	wonderful so king tides are going to be upon us again next month we know that we've learned some lessons we're getting better at handling the ones that are not extreme and one of the things that we're doing is there's a survey that's going to go out to gate 5 road property owners of the community in general it's about 15 questions that we're trying to gather data so that we can be more responsive so gate 5 road obviously obviously is a challenge for our community, has been, will be. You know, we're still working with our Economic Development Administration grant. You may recollect that the feds gave us $600,000 to do a technical study. That's ongoing, and that should be wrapping up beginning this fall. I'd like to talk a little bit about safety that's on the agenda so that we don't miss these points. It's important that you note that the consent calendar has a safety related item. And that is obviously the $750,000 request for construction money at Spencer Firehouse to reactivate it. Chief Barnes is with us today. He has been instrumental in working with his team at the district. The district board has been supportive. I thank Council Member Cox for her role in being a liaison to the group so that we can keep this project going. This is a consent item. We don't believe there's controversy involved in it. So as you know, your agenda setting committee, we put it on consent. And then also another safety related item that is important is the Coloma Street item, which you'll have under business. And that concludes my report.
00:18:49.02	Unknown	Thank you very much.
00:18:50.00	Unknown	Thank you.
00:18:50.98	Unknown	Thank you.
00:18:51.01	Unknown	Yes. Can I ask the city manager a question? You sure may.
00:18:54.27	Ian Sobieski	City Manager, I had a question for you, and I could direct it to Director McGowan, too, on the consent item, so tell me which it is, but you said the item is $700,000 for the Spencer Fire Street station? $750,000. $750,000, and in the staff report, the final bill was...
00:19:05.89	Unknown	Semperate.
00:19:11.12	Unknown	that included other items.
00:19:13.20	Ian Sobieski	added up to 860. So I was just wondering if that is all an estimate, if
00:19:19.21	Unknown	because some of those items,
00:19:22.60	Ian Sobieski	It wasn't clear to me. So I wanted to ask that question for clarity. Is it going to be 700 or is it going to be 860? Yeah.
00:19:28.93	Unknown	Thank you.
00:19:28.96	Unknown	Yeah.
00:19:29.13	Unknown	at the end of the year.
00:19:29.16	Chris Zapata	Let me let me let me thank you for pointing that out, Council member, because if we're going to get into real numbers and the commitment by the city council and staff to safety in that part of the world in respect to that station, we're north of a million dollars. You've allocated three hundred thousand dollars for the records retention program that's there. You had another eight hundred thousand dollars. You're talking over a million dollars in city funds to activate that so that the fire district can partner with us and make the city safer from all these threats that we know are here.
00:20:00.47	Unknown	Does that answer your question?
00:20:01.67	Unknown	I guess I was just
00:20:04.11	Ian Sobieski	We're going to have to come back and authorize some... I just was wondering what the expectation is. Is it 860 or is it 700 more or...
00:20:12.04	Unknown	What is it?
00:20:13.34	Kevin McGowan	I would expect 860 for a total budget in the project, and that's what shows on the staff report.
00:20:20.73	Kevin McGowan	The 750 was an original estimate for the construction plus contingency. And I have that a little bit off in the staff report. It says 735 for those two items. So a little bit of a math glitch there.
00:20:32.62	Ian Sobieski	Okay. I just wanted to clarify what the amount was. Thank you very much. Okay.
00:20:36.44	Steven Woodside	Thank you. Thank you, Mr. City Manager. We do also have another special presentation that in part was inspired by an event that I believe several council members attended, celebrating the emperor of Japan's birthday.
00:20:51.72	Unknown	Um,
00:20:52.81	Steven Woodside	That may sound a little bit far afield from what goes on in Sausalito, but Jill, would you like to
00:21:00.85	Unknown	Um,
00:21:01.93	Unknown	make this presentation.
00:21:03.88	Jill Hoffman	Yes, and I have the Oprah microphone, oddly, at my desk. And so I sent Walford some pictures. Do you have them, Walford?
00:21:12.34	Jill Hoffman	Yeah. So we, um, last week on Thursday, I think it was,
00:21:16.94	Jill Hoffman	we attended the emperor's birthday party
00:21:20.96	Unknown	at the Nico Hotel.
00:21:22.97	Unknown	In San Francisco.
00:21:24.96	Jill Hoffman	And it was myself. I'm the council liaison to the sister city program. It also has three sister cities, which is an abundance of sister cities. And so myself, the vice mayor, Blaustein and Councilmember Cox were able to go and attend that. And also and so I think maybe Walford's going to be able to bring up the picture of us.
00:21:47.00	Unknown	Yeah, thank you.
00:21:50.11	Unknown	Yes, and Harrison,
00:21:52.87	Jill Hoffman	Alison Chapman who's here, give us a wave. Harrison, Sophie Harrison could come up if you want to come up. Was with us with the council general. Harrison is also the chair of our
00:22:03.76	Jill Hoffman	of our Sister City program for just Sakai Day, for Sakai Day Japan. So he runs our Sister City program and we were lucky enough to have him with us.
00:22:13.14	Jill Hoffman	And last October, for the first time ever, there was a leadership meeting.
00:22:20.21	Jill Hoffman	kind of traveling show across Japan of 20 cities with the U S Japan leadership council. And I was lucky enough to go because of our mayor mayor Cox was not able to go. And so even though Sakai day wasn't included in that, it was a three city tour of Osaka Yamanashi prefecture. And we ended up in Tokyo at the, um,
00:22:43.65	Unknown	at the UN University in Tokyo.
00:22:46.67	Jill Hoffman	But I included Sakai Day, a stop in Sakai Day first, and Harrison was instrumental in linking me for a 12 hour.
00:22:55.17	Jill Hoffman	visit to Sakai day overnight. We met for dinner and then the next day,
00:22:59.58	Jill Hoffman	And I have a picture of us, of me with, um,
00:23:03.02	Jill Hoffman	with the mayor of Sakaide, Mayor Arifuku, and the council liaison there.
00:23:09.37	Unknown	or sorry, the chair of the city council there and
00:23:12.66	Jill Hoffman	I have a presentation of a gift from the mayor to
00:23:17.48	Jill Hoffman	our mayors here in or the city actually of Sausalito. So this is a beautiful wind chime from Sakai Day. And so this was a great and we had our annual meeting of our sister city program this past on Saturday, February 21st. So I'm going to set down my microphone. And I was wondering if Harrison could help me present it to our mayor and maybe our former mayor, Joan Cox, and
00:23:43.30	Jill Hoffman	And I have a picture, oh, if I could share my screen, I could put the picture of us in Sikai Day.
00:23:49.36	Unknown	Um,
00:23:50.15	Jill Hoffman	Maybe when Wofford comes back. But there's a picture of us in Sakai Day in the council chambers, but also there's a picture of us outside the city chambers.
00:23:58.49	Jill Hoffman	or the city hall, the beautiful city hall in Sakai Day in front of a willow tree and that's the willow tree that Sausalito donated to Sakai Day Japan, which I think you're going to see later this month, Mayor Woodside, when you go to Japan, I think you're going through Sakai Day, right?
00:24:13.36	Jill Hoffman	So we're doing the first ever adult trip to Sakaide. Sakaide is an exchange for students, for high school students, right? Oh, there it is. So there's us in front of with my...
00:24:28.34	Jill Hoffman	with my consort and husband, Steve, and the mayor of Sikaide and the vice mayor who's on the other end, and then the chair of the city council in Sikaide in front of the willow tree that was planted from Sausalito. And then there's another picture, if we have it, of us inside the council chambers exchanging gifts that we had brought from Sausalito for this. There we are. That's us inside the council chambers, exchanging gifts that we had brought from Sausalito for this. There we are. That's us inside the council chambers in Sikai Day. And so it was a beautiful 12 hours in Sikai Day. I wish I had been able to stay longer. But let me hand the.
00:25:06.21	Unknown	Thank you.
00:25:06.28	Unknown	Okay.
00:25:06.63	Unknown	Thank you.
00:25:09.77	Unknown	And then we get from the future.
00:25:19.37	Unknown	Thank you.
00:25:22.27	Unknown	Thank you.
00:25:24.43	Unknown	Thank you.
00:25:24.69	Unknown	Minerals.
00:25:24.72	Unknown	minerals.
00:25:25.31	Unknown	I mean, it's named.
00:25:26.93	Unknown	Thank you.
00:25:26.96	Unknown	Thank you.
00:25:36.95	Harrison Chapman	So the mineral of this wind chime is called sanukite, and it was discovered in Sanuki prefecture, which is the old name for Kagawa prefecture, which is essentially like the county where our sister city is.
00:25:48.72	Harrison Chapman	And this is a specific mineral. I think it's iron rich. It has, they say that it rings with the sound of happiness. So that's why it's turned into a wind chime.
00:25:59.47	Unknown	Thank you.
00:26:09.41	Unknown	And there's still some people at the left.
00:26:11.99	Unknown	Thank you.
00:26:13.84	Steven Woodside	So just on that point, there is a program that our sister city program here has offering. There are fees attached to it, so it's not a free trip, but it's from April 10th to April 21st, roughly. April 11th, okay. But you need to leave here on the 10th in order to get there by the 11th. So that will take place and a number of members of this community will be going to Sakai Day. So we look forward to it. And thank you, Harrison, for all you do for this program.
00:26:50.48	Unknown	Okay, great.
00:26:57.70	Steven Woodside	So now, sorry for the delay. We did have more than the usual special presentations tonight, but I think they're all important in their own way and important for us to hear. We now come to the time on the agenda to hear from the public on matters that are not on tonight's agenda. I do have a couple of speaker cards. I think they are for these general comments. Is that correct, Mr. Clerk? So the first is from Michelle McCullough.
00:27:27.61	Unknown	Michelle, welcome.
00:27:33.11	Unknown	Thank you.
00:27:34.54	Unknown	Thank you.
00:27:35.76	Unknown	So happy to be here and I have three.
00:27:38.64	Unknown	Quick comments that are not on the agenda.
00:27:41.49	Unknown	And the first two are really thank yous.
00:27:44.46	Michelle	So I firstly want to say thank you specifically to Vice Mayor Blaustein and Council Member Joan Cox, who I've been working with on the MLK Corp Yard Public Task Force.
00:27:55.18	Michelle	I want to say thank you for moving us in the direction of transparency and for keeping the promise that you said you would.
00:28:02.18	Michelle	keep when it comes to the oath. And I look forward to.
00:28:05.94	Michelle	Moving in that direction of transparency. So thank you for showing us that transparency is possible in this town. Second, thank you is to say thank you for moving us in the right direction with formula retail.
00:28:18.55	Michelle	That's another change. We've boarded the train of change and it has officially left the station.
00:28:27.14	Michelle	And this is very exciting for our city. So my third and final comment in that vein is, please, let's keep moving in that direction. I had a very sobering conversation today with assistant city planner here, Brandon, and it was very educational, but it was also very discouraging as an entrepreneur and businesswoman in this city for a decade now.
00:28:49.31	Michelle	that as we approach spring 2026, I want to make it very clear
00:28:54.26	Michelle	I would really like to set up shop and open a business in Sausalito. I would really like to help this city generate some tax revenue.
00:29:00.92	Michelle	And the more I educate myself on Ordinance 1022,
00:29:04.99	Michelle	the more discouraged I feel. And my conversation today was eye-opening, and I really appreciate Brandon's time.
00:29:11.93	Unknown	And I want to say thank you, Brandon.
00:29:14.78	Michelle	accommodating very informative and very invitational and i hope we can keep talking about ordinance 1020
00:29:21.02	Michelle	I need to and I hope the City Council can keep moving us in that right direction.
00:29:26.32	Michelle	because it's very exciting to me and many of my neighbors
00:29:29.91	Unknown	who I continue to encourage to be positive
00:29:32.68	Michelle	about what this city is doing. So thank you, City Council, thank you.
00:29:37.26	Unknown	Thank you very much.
00:29:38.52	Unknown	The second...
00:29:39.60	Steven Woodside	I hope I get this pronounced correctly, Elizabeth Lizanne Hoggoring.
00:29:47.95	Lizanne Hague	I got my Lizanne. So I figured that was easier. So I partnered with Elizabeth. So apologies for that.
00:29:52.33	Unknown	I wanted to get your complete name. Thank you.
00:29:54.15	Unknown	Thank you.
00:29:54.82	Lizanne Hague	Well, I did the Hague because my father, Bill Hague, who's here, has been a long-term resident of the community since the early 90s. We own the house on 101 South Street, which is when you come around the bend from Alexander. We're one of the first houses there. We have been struggling with neighbor issues with 103 South Street for going on close to a year now. I've been here a couple times kind of talking about it. What I'm here today about is we are asking one more time that we simply enforce the code, that the law needs to be followed, that we pay tax dollars to have an infrastructure in place to enforce the code. 103 has three violations. I'm going to touch on them. The first one is a hot water heater. It's illegally installed. It has been called out for almost 10 months. There has been no vines given. There has been no resolution given. And we continue to live next door to somebody who does not follow the code.
00:30:44.92	Lizanne Hague	The second one is the fence. Everyone has heard about this fence. We've got the fancy flags. We've got the offensive stickers, et cetera. That fence is not up to code. We are living in winter. We've got dirt coming down off the thing with the rains, and it is not getting addressed. I appreciate that the code was changed in October and that we're trying to work through the administration of that, but it simply hasn't been done. And we are asking...
00:31:08.75	Lizanne Hague	The third one I'm going to talk about is the box. Everyone talks about this Amazon storage box. You can see it if you walk by. It is a very big, blue, obnoxious box. It is littered with offensive stickers. It is a temporary structure. If you read code,
00:31:25.04	Lizanne Hague	Section 10.40.080 of the Sausalito Municipal Code. It's very clear as far as what are exclusions to setbacks and what are considered temporary structures. This is a temporary structure. There is a 60-day limit on that, and it has to be removed. We have emailed the attorney multiple times on this. Again, I can appreciate that this is a temporary, this is a gray area because it is a store amazon storage box which is not in the code but it does need it is temporary and needs to be addressed so we're simply asking the city to prioritize this and address the situation for us thank you
00:32:01.30	Unknown	Thank you very much.
00:32:03.49	Steven Woodside	Just so everyone's aware, we're not able to respond to matters that are not on the agenda, but we are listening.
00:32:09.64	Unknown	And
00:32:11.22	Lizanne Hague	Mayor, I did email you February 2nd on this, so I'm going to just put it back at the top of your inbox tonight. All right.
00:32:16.40	Unknown	Right.
00:32:17.70	Unknown	Thank you.
00:32:20.05	Unknown	No further public comment.
00:32:21.40	Unknown	None on Zoom.
00:32:23.04	Unknown	No.
00:32:23.63	Steven Woodside	Okay, thank you very much. We did receive one written public comment on matters not on the agenda, and that's
00:32:31.12	Steven Woodside	listed on the agenda. So anyone who cares to read that, that's available. We'll now move to the consent calendar.
00:32:37.80	Unknown	Um,
00:32:38.93	Steven Woodside	We do have a consent calendar tonight with, let's see, two...
00:32:46.59	Steven Woodside	Items 3A through 3G. I'll first ask if any of my colleagues have any conflicts or reason to not participate in any of the items.
00:32:55.94	Unknown	that.
00:32:57.98	Unknown	Isn't one of them the...
00:32:59.30	Melissa Blaustein	fire station have to do with the financing i don't remember which number it is three
00:33:04.62	Melissa Blaustein	Yeah, so I, because I live extremely close to, I live within a hundred yards of the Spencer firehouse. So I need to recuse from three C. Okay.
00:33:14.39	Unknown	Receive. Anyone else?
00:33:16.07	Walfred Solorzano	Just for the record, what is the distance? Because I drive down the hill, so I don't think you have to recuse yourself when I go up and down because I measured it.
00:33:25.00	Melissa Blaustein	You did? Because I've been recusing myself since the beginning of negotiations.
00:33:27.28	Unknown	in the negotiations.
00:33:28.85	Unknown	assistance.
00:33:29.22	Unknown	Thank you.
00:33:29.88	Steven Woodside	Well, there's two different distances. It's a little complicated. If you're within five- I'm a renter.
00:33:33.39	Unknown	Okay.
00:33:33.67	Unknown	Thank you.
00:33:34.54	Unknown	five
00:33:35.75	Steven Woodside	If you're within 500 feet and you're renting, there still is a presumption that you are-
00:33:35.77	Unknown	Thank you.
00:33:42.80	Unknown	She is beyond 500 feet.
00:33:44.66	Steven Woodside	Right. And then there's a within the thousand feet and that's a little bit iffy, but
00:33:50.09	Steven Woodside	A member is entitled to recuse if there's any concern or doubt.
00:33:54.16	Melissa Blaustein	I mean, I've been recusing out of an abundance of, I didn't know that I was not within 500 feet, so I will carry on and recuse, but thank you for measuring Welford. I appreciate it.
00:34:02.31	Unknown	Thank you.
00:34:02.35	Unknown	Yeah, we can double check going forward.
00:34:06.56	Unknown	And to be clear, when it comes to leases,
00:34:09.21	Sergio Rudin	The actual standard is not based on distance. It is based on whether there is a potential impact on the leasehold, including a change in the termination date, an increase or decrease in the potential rental about rental value of the property, change to the official's actual legally allowed use or an impact to the use and enjoyment of the property. And so that those standards are not based on distance.
00:34:33.83	Unknown	Very well, thank you. That's helpful.
00:34:36.70	Steven Woodside	In any event for tonight, Ms. Blaustein is recusing herself from item C3. Any other recusals?
00:34:43.97	Steven Woodside	Seeing none, I'd like to entertain a motion to approve. Oh, that's right. We need public comment before we have a motion.
00:34:54.83	Unknown	Thank you.
00:35:00.65	Unknown	Mark Palmer, Mr. Palmer, welcome.
00:35:05.29	Unknown	And we did receive a written communication as well.
00:35:09.88	Mark Palmer	Good evening, Councilmembers. Mark Palmer, I wanted to publicly welcome Alexandra Anderson, our sustainability and resilience manager, and also the liaison to the Sustainability Commission, and voice my strong support for the Turney Street project, which she's spearheading. Thank you very much.
00:35:29.44	Unknown	Thank you.
00:35:32.15	Unknown	Alex Anderson.
00:35:34.36	Steven Woodside	Would you stand up again? I think we've done this before, but just so everyone sees you.
00:35:44.72	Alexandra Anderson	is 10th of resiliency management. Oh, sorry. There we go.
00:35:51.20	Alexandra Anderson	Good afternoon, Mayor, Vice Mayor, Council members and everyone else here. My name is Alexandra Anderson and I am the Resiliency and Sustainability Manager for the city of Sausalito. So grateful to be here. I'm sure you'll be seeing a lot more of me.
00:36:07.52	Unknown	Have a wonderful evening. Thank you.
00:36:09.26	Unknown	Thank you very much.
00:36:10.58	Unknown	And thank you, Mr. Palmer, for that introduction.
00:36:14.16	Steven Woodside	So any other public comments on the consent calendar?
00:36:18.93	Unknown	See you then.
00:36:19.98	Steven Woodside	Very well. Is there a motion to approve items 3A, B, D, E, F, and G?
00:36:29.14	Unknown	Second.
00:36:30.30	Unknown	Okay. All in favor?
00:36:32.41	Unknown	Bye.
00:36:32.82	Unknown	Bye.
00:36:33.31	Unknown	I.
00:36:34.41	Steven Woodside	So those are approved. And now separately with the...
00:36:38.39	Steven Woodside	Member blasting recusing herself item 3C motion to approve
00:36:44.14	Unknown	Second,
00:36:45.24	Unknown	All in favor? Bye.
00:36:46.61	Unknown	Bye.
00:36:47.89	Unknown	four
00:36:49.83	Unknown	01, abstention.
00:36:51.68	Unknown	So those items have now been approved.
00:36:54.45	Steven Woodside	We don't have any specific public hearing items tonight, but we do have business items. So let's start with item 5A.
00:37:05.25	Steven Woodside	And Angeline, are you presenting or Mr. City Manager, do you want to introduce?
00:37:09.47	Chris Zapata	If I can introduce it, Mayor, that would be much appreciated. Thank you for your time this evening, and thank the folks from KKMI and HDL, our sales tax consultant, for being here. I think they're online. I want to just note that this is a little unusual in terms of an appeal. So the format that we're advocating for tonight is pretty straightforward. it's to give the staff 10 minutes to present what they believe is important and then allow 10 minutes for KKMI and their team to respond and then two minutes back and forth in terms of rebuttal and then go from there. But since we don't normally do this, you know, we're trying to follow that template that we use for normal appeals. And I spoke to Mr. Kaplan this afternoon, so he's prepared for that and also Angeline as well. So Angeline will be first.
00:38:04.94	Unknown	Very well.
00:38:05.68	Sergio Rudin	And city manager just on the format issue, we should also include public comment before the two minute rebuttal periods.
00:38:14.81	Unknown	We got that. Thank you.
00:38:16.30	Angeline Loeffler	All right. Good evening. All right. So I'm going to be going through the, uh, the, the, the summary of these appeal, the, the documentations. Next slide, please.
00:38:30.74	Angeline Loeffler	All right, just quick background of these. The appeal is KKMI has been in a full service marine repair and maintenance yards located in the Clipper Yachts Harbor in Sausalito. And they've been in the operations since 2009. And the first business license tax was filed on the January 1st of 2020. 2010.
00:38:52.76	Angeline Loeffler	and KKMI has been maintaining outstanding account statuses since the outside of these audit assessments. On the September 5th of 2025, the audit assessments and voice for issues to the KKMI, including the 36,127 of the business license tax due, along with the 29,290 and 80 cents of the penalty that associates with it.
00:39:21.60	Angeline Loeffler	KKMI, the city staff met with the KKMI on a multiple times incident to discuss the audit assessments and trying to come up with the resolutions for the disputes and was unable to reach the understanding of the mutual understanding of audit findings. On February 3rd of 2026, KKMI submitted the formal, the appeal request to the city related with the audit assessments. Next slides, please.
00:39:52.03	Angeline Loeffler	And this is a quick summary of the appeal summary that is filed by the KKMI. The KKMI is appealing the tax classifications or the reclassification determinations made under the Sausalito Municipal Code Section 50423. Specifically, KKMI is appealing the assignments of the business license tax categories.
00:40:16.55	Angeline Loeffler	Prior to the audit, KKMI was assigned to the tax category 1,
00:40:22.07	Angeline Loeffler	which is the idea generally for the retail, wholesales, restaurant, hotels, and the tour operator and manufacturing, which is the idea
00:40:31.33	Angeline Loeffler	The business taxes to add a $1 on every thousand of the gross receipts. But after the audits, KKMI has been reclassified to the category three.
00:40:41.95	Angeline Loeffler	Services and professional, which is $3 per thousand for every
00:40:48.16	Unknown	thousand gross receipts that reported
00:40:51.88	Angeline Loeffler	So as a result, the reclassification has resulted in the additional business license tax of $36,117. I have a little minor typos on there. The audit period's coverage is 2022 through 2025, not 2023 to 2025.
00:41:11.31	Angeline Loeffler	KKMI is the argue that the Sausalito Municipal Code sections, the 504-230 does not explicitly
00:41:20.32	Angeline Loeffler	The mentioning of the maritime industries and does not clearly defines how the businesses provide the parts and.
00:41:28.28	Angeline Loeffler	the labor of the boat should be classified in the co-section. So I will be actually diving into a little bit more deeper how we classified and made our determinations.
00:41:40.42	Angeline Loeffler	KKMI is also seeking the waiver of penalties that was assessed with this audit assessment of $29,920.80.
00:41:52.63	Unknown	in the appeal process.
00:41:56.26	Unknown	Next slide, please.
00:41:58.96	Angeline Loeffler	For the next couple of slides, I just want to quickly go over the other social leaders refresh the everyone's mind the on the atmosphere, the our the current the social leader municipal code section 540230 on a classification how it's the idea the classified in the current.
00:42:17.29	Angeline Loeffler	the co-sections, the category one where the
00:42:20.44	Unknown	KKMI is currently
00:42:22.79	Angeline Loeffler	classified in there is basically for the general retail and wholesales and any of the operator actually sells the tangible goods, not direct association with the services and professional services.
00:42:39.46	Unknown	Next slide, please.
00:42:44.00	Angeline Loeffler	And I'm not covering the category two because that's not really relevant for this particular presentation. So I'm actually diving into the category three where the KKMI has been reclassified
00:42:56.41	Angeline Loeffler	to the services and professional. So service and professional is, I want to draw everyone's attention on this one, is the individuals engaging in the businesses of the offering to the public professional and semi-professional services for the compensations. I think that was where the ISD reviewed the documentations from the HDL, and that's where I actually see that a little bit more in line with the current KKMI's operations. Next slide, please. And this is the additional, the clause under the category three, defining the professional services in that sense, which is the same in notations. Only difference between the services and professional is there is this, the,
00:43:46.25	Angeline Loeffler	Government issued certifications may be differently applied. On the service level, there's no specific requirements that they need to hold a certain type of the government issued certificates, and under the professional services, they may be required in there. That will be the only differences on those two types of services. Next slide, please.
00:44:12.80	Angeline Loeffler	And I just wanna quickly go through how the audit is assessed. And this is the statement that I have received from the HDL for the during the course of the audits and audit documentations. So HDL is actually reviewed
00:44:30.55	Angeline Loeffler	There are financial statements along with the direct interactions and conversations with the KKMI to draw the conclusions that they are more fit into the services rather than Category 1 as the retailer or wholesalers in that nature.
00:44:48.57	Angeline Loeffler	And during that process, the KCAM also provide the other financial statements as part of the supporting documentation to the HDL.
00:44:58.92	Unknown	Next slide, please.
00:45:01.62	Angeline Loeffler	And I have spent a good amount of time to review the documentations that I obtained from the HDL, as well as the conversations with the KKMI to obtain the additional information. Based on those reviews, the audit reports provided by the HDL,
00:45:20.97	Angeline Loeffler	the HDL and communication information between the HDL and KKMI, along with the deep-dive review of our current Sausalito municipal code sections of the relevant codes. And based on that one, the staff determined that reclassifications to the KKMI's tax category to three was appropriate and upheld the audit assessments issues on September 5th. And outside of those, the classifications noticed. I did not really find any other evidence that is concealing of gross receipts of what was reported to our business license. Everything was reported appropriately in that sense. And then also KKMI has consistently made the timely payments and kept their account statuses very current. Next please.
00:46:15.31	Angeline Loeffler	All right, this is actually some of the key points that I just want to quickly run through is the, there is the,
00:46:21.99	Angeline Loeffler	KKMI is formed and 2010 that's the one the first time they actually submitted the business license the form the business license, but we did have the city has updated. These categories of the business license tax form on the 2018 which is resulting in the idea that we classification supporting of that classification.
00:46:42.78	Angeline Loeffler	And additionally, in review of the other financial statements, over 70% of their gross receipt is related with providing the services, like a labor repairs hall and the launching, and strictly related with the services, which is identifiable as the KKMI classification should be under the
00:47:07.08	Unknown	category 3 rather than category 1.
00:47:09.80	Angeline Loeffler	And they wanted the sales of repair labor generates the largest portion of the revenue, which is about 61% of their gross receipts. And also just point out on the idea section codes is as the individual who's engaging in business for the providing the services and semi professional service should be identified in the.
00:47:31.91	Unknown	Category three, not in category one.
00:47:36.34	Unknown	Next slide, please.
00:47:39.48	Angeline Loeffler	However, tax the staff is recommending the they're waving of the penalties that are associated with the audits as a reason. The reason for that is the KKMI made it good effort to stay current with the business license accounts and as well as maintaining the good payment history. So based on the the history of this penalty is not active the result of the KKMI. So I'm staff is recommending the wave of these penalties.
00:48:10.47	Angeline Loeffler	And I think I'm almost run out of time, so I'm not sure our HDL staff, so he may be able to actually make comments later. Thank you.
00:48:20.02	Unknown	Thank you.
00:48:20.05	Unknown	Can we ask questions?
00:48:20.99	Steven Woodside	Mr. City Attorney, is now a good time to permit council members to ask questions, or should we wait until we've heard from
00:48:23.78	Unknown	Yeah.
00:48:31.74	Unknown	the appellant.
00:48:32.74	Sergio Rudin	I think asking council member questions after each presentation is appropriate.
00:48:37.40	Unknown	Thank you.
00:48:37.41	Unknown	Okay.
00:48:38.29	Unknown	Very well.
00:48:39.30	Unknown	Thank you.
00:48:40.25	Joan Cox	I reviewed the...
00:48:46.41	Joan Cox	attachments to the, uh, paperwork from KKMI. And it included
00:48:54.26	Unknown	Um,
00:48:56.06	Joan Cox	An argument that I didn't see addressed in your presentation, which was that prior to the adoption of our business license tax in 2009, we classified the KKMI business in classification C.
00:49:12.48	Unknown	which was sort of a catch-all
00:49:14.66	Joan Cox	that included repair of tangible personal property
00:49:18.49	Joan Cox	under the category manufacturing wholesale studios. It says it appeared that this was the catch-all for general...
00:49:25.85	Joan Cox	repairs and services, we bring this up to demonstrate the old system clearly stated repair labor with other miscellaneous retail and manufacturing. So did you consider that, um,
00:49:38.33	Joan Cox	manner in which the city previously treated KKMI
00:49:44.26	Joan Cox	in evaluating whether it's appropriate to move them from Category 1
00:49:49.01	Unknown	to category three.
00:49:51.07	Unknown	Yes.
00:49:52.22	Angeline Loeffler	I did because the idea actually in fact to look for the previous year prior to the changes in it to that made the other code changes in 2018. So on the year 2018 day we actually consolidated a lot of business tax code into the just four separate categories. And then when they actually made those changes looks like we kind of redefine.
00:50:18.38	Angeline Loeffler	where everybody's going to fall into, then that is the basis on the decisions.
00:50:23.22	Joan Cox	And then what was the delta in 2009 between the classification C, where they were categorized, and the other classification for services?
00:50:37.23	Unknown	Thank you.
00:50:37.24	Angeline Loeffler	Unfortunately, I was only able to go back and find the most recent changes back in the 2018s. So I was not able to verify what was classified, what was category in 2009. I'm sorry.
00:50:52.13	Unknown	Well,
00:50:53.58	Joan Cox	Okay, but we adopted the BLT in 20. So in 2018, what was the delta in what we charged for someone in the in class C versus the class?
00:51:07.35	Unknown	the classification related to manufacturing.
00:51:10.22	Angeline Loeffler	Unfortunately, even on the 2018 changes, it did not, they're specifically indicating these industry as the standard loan. It just provided as a blanket of the services in that sense. So there was no Pacific notations.
00:51:23.41	Unknown	in that.
00:51:26.64	Unknown	Thank you.
00:51:27.35	Joan Cox	Another issue raised by KKMI was the lack of notice to them of this change. So is there a reason that when HDL reclassified them from class one to class three, that HDL didn't write to them and say, hey, we're considering changing you.
00:51:46.28	Joan Cox	from a 1% to a 3% tax category for these reasons.
00:51:54.50	Joan Cox	do you have any objection or any, you know, we just changed it and then assessed penalties. So
00:52:01.42	Joan Cox	Is there a reason we didn't give them an opportunity to weigh in on that decision?
00:52:05.42	Angeline Loeffler	The way that we notifying the business owner is through the audit process, and audit process is taking into the places. HDL actually has a direct communications with the business owner, and find out all of those nature of it, and then also informing
00:52:22.11	Angeline Loeffler	the business owner that there are changes on the classifications through that point. Because based on the number of the accounts, the only best way to notify looking at each of the accounts, the business license account, is through the audit process. Because the business license is filed strictly voluntarily and then actually categorizes a sign and then selected by the business owners in many times for the first time business open. So HDL is doing corrections throughout the audit processes.
00:52:55.32	Unknown	Thank you.
00:52:55.33	Joan Cox	And I thought I read in one of the papers that we were the people, that it was the city that classified them in class one initially.
00:53:05.81	Angeline Loeffler	Yes, that was the information that I have received, but unfortunately, I was not able to really identify how, who actually was made that final determination, which classification they should be in. That is something that I'm trying to work with the internal departments, because how that
00:53:25.39	Angeline Loeffler	classification is determined by which departments. Certainly it was, I don't think it was in the finance departments in that sense. So that is something that we have to look into it internally.
00:53:37.39	Joan Cox	And then I did also see the argument that the type of professional services that KKMI provides does not
00:53:45.52	Joan Cox	comport with other types of professional services that are
00:53:51.26	Joan Cox	in that same Class C category. I did do a little research, and I see that in Marin County, their Class B categories includes services, operators, and all businesses not specifically listed elsewhere. And so for...
00:54:09.16	Joan Cox	Marin County, many marine businesses do fall under the service and professional services category.
00:54:17.09	Joan Cox	Are you aware of other marine businesses that were impacted by this audit in the same manner that KKMI was impacted?
00:54:25.88	Angeline Loeffler	In fact, when I was looking through the audit result, I did actually pull up working with the HDL to see any other similar type of business, how they have been categorized. And based on what I was able to pull in pulling the similar business, they're all in classification three.
00:54:26.02	Unknown	that.
00:54:45.66	Unknown	And the category three, I'm sorry.
00:54:45.68	Unknown	And the cat
00:54:47.69	Joan Cox	They already were in class. Yes, correct. So this was essentially an anomaly. Correct.
00:54:48.63	Unknown	They are already in class.
00:54:53.86	Unknown	Okay, those were my questions. Thank you, Mayor.
00:54:57.22	Sergio Rudin	Mayor, if I may also address one of the council members questions, there's a question as to what the effective tax rate was.
00:55:05.05	Sergio Rudin	in 2018 prior to the business license tax ordinance being revised. I don't think that's necessarily
00:55:12.47	Sergio Rudin	relevant to the interpretation of the current business license tax ordinance, but I will note that
00:55:18.08	Unknown	page 11 of the, um,
00:55:20.36	Sergio Rudin	KKMI's appeal documents indicates that that tax rate was
00:55:25.03	Sergio Rudin	$4 per a thousand in gross receipts.
00:55:30.24	Sergio Rudin	up to a million dollars. I will note also that the category tax rate for services and professionals is $3.
00:55:38.29	Sergio Rudin	and the category one is $1. So effectively, the tax rates have been lowered by the 2018 measure.
00:55:47.83	Joan Cox	So essentially what you're saying, city attorney, is that
00:55:51.62	Joan Cox	Category three is $3 and that the class C that KKMI was paying before adoption of the BLT was $4 per thousand of gross receipts.
00:56:02.66	Sergio Rudin	I believe that page 11 of their documentation indicates that is the case, yes.
00:56:07.49	Unknown	All right. Thank you. That's very helpful.
00:56:10.88	Ian Sobieski	In fact, that was going to be a question to clarify. So that's clarified. But also, I think maybe you misspoke when you said 1% versus 3%, just it's the point.
00:56:20.51	Unknown	It's 0.1% and 0.3%.
00:56:23.00	Joan Cox	I should have said $1 versus $3. So sorry about that.
00:56:27.76	Ian Sobieski	So my question is just other service marinas in Sausalito, Bayside Boatworks, List Marine, what category are they in?
00:56:35.25	Unknown	They're in category three.
00:56:36.87	Unknown	Thank you.
00:56:44.21	Unknown	Go ahead.
00:56:47.78	Unknown	Sorry. And so,
00:56:50.72	Jill Hoffman	I'm looking at, so the, we have four core categories now. And the fourth category is interesting because that's a special category, or at least it's a sole category just for contractors.
00:57:03.19	Jill Hoffman	Right. Do you know why there's just a special category just for contractors?
00:57:08.41	Angeline Loeffler	Oh, I'm not aware why that was set as a separately because
00:57:14.84	Angeline Loeffler	I don't have a whole lot of background information. So the reasoning behind why the contractor is separately, I'm not sure this is something that maybe the Sergio or the Chris could answer.
00:57:25.80	Jill Hoffman	So that was when I was looking through the categories, the other three categories are pretty, they're very general, they're big categories.
00:57:34.51	Unknown	Um,
00:57:35.63	Jill Hoffman	You know, one one is, you know, category one is general retail, wholesale, restaurant, hotels, tour operators and manufacturing. So they're big categories. Category two is. Um.
00:57:48.92	Jill Hoffman	Shoot. Category two is rental units. Well, that's pretty small. Actually, it's just rental units. And then category three is services and professionals. Again, big, big, big, broad category. Services means professional services is that term is ordinarily and commonly used.
00:58:07.66	Unknown	and professional services.
00:58:09.78	Jill Hoffman	means any professional services that term is ordinarily and commonly used. And then it gives a bunch of
00:58:15.25	Unknown	definitions awkwardly
00:58:18.30	Unknown	You know, and I think the problem
00:58:20.63	Jill Hoffman	with KKMI is it it's awkwardly applied both
00:58:25.34	Jill Hoffman	category one and category three.
00:58:29.37	Jill Hoffman	are awkwardly applied to KKMI. They don't really fit under either one.
00:58:35.51	Jill Hoffman	But then you look at, we have very specific categories, right? We have a very specific category for contractors that,
00:58:43.92	Unknown	which is category two, which is $2.00.
00:58:46.99	Jill Hoffman	per thousand of grocery seats. And then we have a category
00:58:50.69	Unknown	um,
00:58:51.90	Unknown	to
00:58:53.52	Jill Hoffman	Sorry, category four is contractors, very specific. And category two, rental units, very specific, $2 per thousand of gross receipts.
00:59:03.19	Jill Hoffman	for both of those two categories. So do you know how, why, or how the code came up with two very specific categories? And then we have two very general categories.
00:59:14.11	Chris Zapata	Maybe I can take a stab at that. I was hoping maybe you or Council Member Cox could explain that, given that you were here in 2018 when you did this.
00:59:22.28	Unknown	who did this.
00:59:23.56	Chris Zapata	So you modernized your code from 22 categories.
00:59:29.38	Chris Zapata	The four. And that was the impetus for it. And so how those categories were come up with was simply to streamline.
00:59:39.88	Unknown	And, um,
00:59:41.14	Chris Zapata	Because 22 classifications is unwieldy. And so I thought that that's what you did in 2018 and how you came up with specific four and what those four were comprised of. I think maybe you can help me with that.
00:59:55.01	Jill Hoffman	I can- Well, maybe you do our discussion. Sure.
00:59:58.47	Steven Woodside	Yeah, this is question time. So let's stick to questions now. But thank you, Mr. City Manager for helping clarify that. Jill, did you have more at this point?
01:00:09.97	Jill Hoffman	I don't think I have any further questions at this point. I may after we hear from KKMI. Thank you so much. And thank you for our conversation earlier today. I appreciate that.
01:00:18.34	Steven Woodside	I have a quick question, not having been here and familiar with the changes over time, but who makes the decision as to allocating to which category?
01:00:28.95	Angeline Loeffler	It's essentially the business owner, and then when the city reviews the final reviews of the business license application, based on what was submitted as a nature of the businesses, and that gets to determine which category they should be put on.
01:00:43.92	Steven Woodside	Well, but who makes that decision? So the owner of the business or the operator of the business submits for a license
01:00:51.85	Unknown	Mm-hmm.
01:00:52.19	Unknown	Thank you.
01:00:52.25	Unknown	and says, I'm in category one, two, three, or four.
01:00:55.97	Unknown	And who decides that
01:00:59.29	Unknown	that is not correct or makes a change.
01:01:02.60	Unknown	Who makes that decision?
01:01:02.78	Unknown	makes that.
01:01:03.85	Angeline Loeffler	is as the city as a collector working with the HDL going through the some of those the the reports and what they have the submitted and then also we do the also do
01:01:16.11	Angeline Loeffler	the preliminary screening, let's say, there's some of the business may be obvious if they're operating in a restaurant, they're putting themselves in a service industry category three, that's obvious flags. So those are kind of the flags that HDL is actually reviewing on a regular basis to catch those flags.
01:01:36.06	Steven Woodside	So HDL is a consultant who reviews all of these things and then makes the attempt to apply the...
01:01:36.28	Unknown	Yeah.
01:01:42.96	Unknown	various ordinances and classifications.
01:01:45.21	Unknown	Yes.
01:01:49.27	Unknown	Oh.
01:01:49.95	Unknown	Okay. Ian, can you answer that question?
01:01:55.03	Ian (HDL Consultant)	Yes, I can. And thank you, Marin City Council for having me and I'm sorry for being remote today. I'm currently traveling.
01:02:01.34	Unknown	Um,
01:02:02.69	Ian (HDL Consultant)	So to answer, I guess, a little bit of the background of how these applications usually get processed, like when a new business comes into the city to apply for a business license, because historical business licenses, businesses that renew, they constantly renew under the same category unless there's been a significant change to their business model.
01:02:19.55	Unknown	So how new businesses apply is they apply online,
01:02:22.23	Unknown	for the most part.
01:02:23.78	Ian (HDL Consultant)	that application online has a business type associated with it.
01:02:28.37	Unknown	that business type.
01:02:29.71	Ian (HDL Consultant)	you know, helps us kind of guide towards whatever that classification category should fit into. So for an example, let's say like a,
01:02:36.05	Unknown	a restaurant moves into the city.
01:02:37.74	Ian (HDL Consultant)	That's obviously pretty clear cut that there's a very clear categorization into category one.
01:02:42.80	Unknown	And then also
01:02:44.71	Ian (HDL Consultant)	into other types of businesses. So like service-based businesses, like hairstylists and things of that nature. It helps us kind of identify
01:02:50.78	Unknown	what category they should be put into.
01:02:52.76	Ian (HDL Consultant)	Business owners during the application process, due to it being a self-reported tax, have the ability to actually classify themselves. Like they may say, I want to be in this particular category, but the city then has the right to audit.
01:03:04.37	Ian (HDL Consultant)	The city has the right to basically decide, you know, based on either an assessment or based on whatever the audit results might be, what the amounts would be.
01:03:12.37	Ian (HDL Consultant)	Obviously, the way that most business license applications are processed is that the business owner in HDL come to an agreement of what that business type is for the city. And most businesses kind of go off without a hit, without a hit.
01:03:25.83	Unknown	And
01:03:28.03	Steven Woodside	Ian, is it HDL, your company that makes that decision on behalf of the city?
01:03:34.25	Unknown	HDL and the city as a partnership. Yes.
01:03:38.81	Unknown	And can you explain,
01:03:41.63	Unknown	Why?
01:03:43.20	Steven Woodside	A shipyard is a professional service, such as all those listed in
01:03:50.69	Unknown	Category three.
01:03:52.56	Ian (HDL Consultant)	I can. So a couple different things that are applicable here. So one is that there is two different levels to this category three. It's professional service and service. And one of the, one of the basically,
01:04:06.69	Ian (HDL Consultant)	the paragraphs and I think Angeline shared it in one of the presentations that I think it got mentioned a couple times in one of the slides. There's a section that says all other businesses not mentioned. As you can see, most of the categories that you can read in category one, category two and category four, which I believe one of the council members pointed out, those are pretty specific categories. And then category three is kind of the odd one out that
01:04:31.76	Ian (HDL Consultant)	doesn't really mention anything you know it doesn't mention anything specific it's more general it
01:04:36.96	Unknown	of business activity.
01:04:38.41	Ian (HDL Consultant)	That is the it's the catch all for anything that doesn't fall into those three categories or the three other categories. Apologies like the rental units is pretty straightforward. That's a business that is renting out property.
01:04:47.27	Ian (HDL Consultant)	The contractors is anyone that is licensed with the Contractors State License Board. And then Category 1 that's inclusive of retail, manufacturing, and tour operators are people that fit, or and hotels, apologies, are people that would fit into those classifications on a colloquial basis. And I believe there's even some definitions in the code that state how those should be properly defined. But Classification 3 is for both service-based businesses.
01:05:10.44	Ian (HDL Consultant)	and professional service-based businesses, which is why there's businesses that are like hairstylists and other types of businesses that fall into that category, even though they're not what you would, on a colloquial basis, call a professional service.
01:05:23.22	Steven Woodside	But the category three that you refer to as services specifically says services means any professional services.
01:05:28.16	Unknown	Thank you.
01:05:28.18	Unknown	What?
01:05:33.04	Unknown	Thank you.
01:05:33.05	Unknown	Mm-hmm.
01:05:33.58	Unknown	And then goes on and
01:05:36.77	Steven Woodside	to say professional or semi-professional services for compensations and not specifically covered under any other part.
01:05:47.20	Unknown	of the chapter.
01:05:47.92	Unknown	And shall include...
01:05:49.91	Steven Woodside	professions that require governmental certifications or licensure, et cetera, et cetera, hairstylists, et cetera. I'm having difficulty, and I hope you can explain this, how a shipyard that repairs ships is a professional service within the meaning of that section.
01:06:12.12	Ian (HDL Consultant)	So, yeah, I mean, like I said, I think there's one, there's that section that we just, I think, covered right there, which is the catch-all statement, which is basically saying anything that isn't covered in this chapter or section, which the chapter is the business tax chapter. And then also secondarily, there is the fact that I believe it says including but not limited to, which basically is the, again, another kind of assurance to the catch- all. Again, with all the other categories, the point of the categories is to be specific. And I can also provide background
01:06:43.47	Ian (HDL Consultant)	because I was there during the tax study and the tax ordinance review before I went to ballot with HDL, and I can add a little bit of clarity on why the other tax rates were assessed in those particular categories. The tax rates were originally assessed with the intent of having groupings of businesses be discounted on their rates based on other city taxes that they might be paying. So as you can see, at the lowest tax category, you have retail and restaurants and things of that nature. Those types of businesses obviously typically provide sales tax, same thing with hotels providing transient occupancy tax, rental properties providing property tax to the city, and then contractors providing permitting, sales tax, and other types of city services. but like professionals and service categories was put into this category for the specific purpose of that they in general don't provide that same type of all-encompassing tax benefit to the city and so that is why that category is such a catch-all category it's the purpose of that category is to be if it's not in any of the other categories it falls into this category and to again to more specifically address what you're talking about
01:07:48.17	Unknown	With the ship you're...
01:07:49.91	Unknown	the shipyard
01:07:50.99	Ian (HDL Consultant)	the boat repairs that they're doing because it's not specifically mentioned in any of the other
01:07:55.48	Unknown	categories, it falls into category three.
01:07:59.04	Steven Woodside	So are you saying that shipyards don't pay property taxes?
01:08:03.86	Ian (HDL Consultant)	I'm saying that that's not inherently what the point of the original measure was. So like for an, again, the, the reason for the measure and the reason why the classifications were created in the first place, it wasn't a,
01:08:14.53	Unknown	you know,
01:08:15.59	Unknown	if your business pays property taxes and therefore you fall into this category.
01:08:18.46	Ian (HDL Consultant)	The purpose of why the classifications were set up was because it was trying to group specific businesses into lesser tax categories –
01:08:26.07	Unknown	based on if they've provided...
01:08:27.81	Ian (HDL Consultant)	Other city benefits. For an example, obviously a hairstylist can have sales tax revenue, but that wasn't the point of the measure. The point was to capture all of the different types of service based businesses that generally in general don't provide the same level of different taxes that the other business types do.
01:08:47.59	Angeline Loeffler	And if I may add one more thing on that one, on the category three, it's we're actually looking at two separate services and a professional services. And under the services, and it does indicate that there's two major differences, that it does not require any of the government issued certificate, which means anybody can be providing the services could be categorized as a catch all that is not listed in any other categories.
01:09:18.64	Unknown	Anyone else with questions? Yes.
01:09:20.87	Melissa Blaustein	Yeah, I, again, I also was not here in 2018, but I'm wondering, and perhaps Ian at HDL can provide further context, but was there notice given that the category might change and was there.
01:09:34.74	Unknown	was there guidance with regard to,
01:09:37.61	Melissa Blaustein	your type of businesses is most likely to be a catch-all business or was it entirely on the onus of the business owner to determine which classification was appropriate?
01:09:48.10	Angeline Loeffler	I believe this changes was gone through the ballot, and then there was the notice that was sent out to all the businesses to informing of the possible changes of these categories.
01:10:01.08	Unknown	So Ian, how did you end up
01:10:03.69	Melissa Blaustein	selecting specifically, I mean, have we done an audit of all of our boat yards or do we have an idea of if they all potentially fall into the wrong
01:10:12.93	Unknown	Thank you.
01:10:13.08	Unknown	Service?
01:10:14.60	Unknown	or sorry, the wrong category?
01:10:15.93	Unknown	basically.
01:10:16.94	Unknown	It's not.
01:10:17.03	Unknown	it.
01:10:17.50	Unknown	Bayside is in three. Yeah. Okay.
01:10:20.20	Unknown	Okay.
01:10:21.31	Unknown	of the
01:10:21.35	Unknown	Yeah, good.
01:10:22.09	Ian (HDL Consultant)	Good question. So, I mean, just to, you know, to elaborate on how our audit selection process happens, all of our audits are completely random. So we don't actually like select people necessarily. It's mainly done for the purpose is just to basically maintain the city's records and trying to do a good job of making sure things are cleaned up. As you guys can imagine, which is why both HDL and the city are recommending waiving the penalties. There isn't like a necessarily like a blame factor that we're trying to push on to, um,
01:10:51.37	Ian (HDL Consultant)	the business. The idea is that the businesses obviously tried to pay correctly on a year-to-year basis. It's just that the reality is that not only is there precedent because other businesses that fall into the same type of category or same type of business type fall into that category, and not only do other similar types of businesses that provide services for compensation also fall into this category, we believe this to be the right category for this business. And that's basically what we're trying to be the right category for this business. And that's basically what we're trying to do with this tax assessment is just put them into the right category
01:11:22.89	Unknown	have forgiveness towards the penalties.
01:11:24.90	Unknown	Um,
01:11:25.81	Unknown	because we don't believe that they should be
01:11:27.50	Unknown	penalized for this type of activity.
01:11:29.71	Unknown	However, we do believe they should be put into the right classification.
01:11:33.67	Unknown	Okay.
01:11:35.04	Unknown	So.
01:11:35.90	Unknown	Thank you.
01:11:36.05	Unknown	Okay.
01:11:36.32	Unknown	Okay.
01:11:36.59	Unknown	Can I follow up? Yeah, yeah.
01:11:36.64	Unknown	Can I follow up on that?
01:11:37.81	Unknown	I'll go after you. I'll pray.
01:11:38.75	Unknown	Thank you.
01:11:40.83	Unknown	Sorry, this might.
01:11:44.03	Jill Hoffman	So Ian, I'm wondering, so category one, which is originally what-
01:11:50.38	Jill Hoffman	KKMI was in, as well as I think Bayside Boatworks was and maybe some others.
01:11:55.09	Jill Hoffman	And that's general retail, wholesale, restaurant, hotels, but really it's general retail and wholesales, which is what we're.
01:12:02.06	Jill Hoffman	Looking at, and that's any establishment or business that conducts retail, the sale of goods to the ultimate consumers, usually in small quantities, right? So we're acknowledging that's.
01:12:10.97	Jill Hoffman	the sale of goods in small quantities, or wholesale, which is the sale of goods in quantity as to retailers or jobbers for resale,
01:12:20.74	Jill Hoffman	And that's certainly what a boatyard does. And it also includes, quote, manufacturing,
01:12:27.17	Jill Hoffman	It includes every person conducting or carrying on a business consisting of manufacturing, packing, or processing any goods, wares, merchandise, or commodities at a fixed place of business within the city.
01:12:39.37	Jill Hoffman	So awkward though it is as in category three awkward though that is,
01:12:45.49	Unknown	I'm having a hard time
01:12:47.85	Unknown	how,
01:12:48.82	Jill Hoffman	A boat yard doesn't fit within category one as well.
01:12:52.53	Unknown	And when I'm looking at-
01:12:52.73	Unknown	when I'm looking at-
01:12:53.76	Jill Hoffman	Well, if I could finish category three.
01:12:55.06	Unknown	Yes, sir.
01:12:57.57	Unknown	service and professionals.
01:12:59.55	Unknown	awkwardly
01:13:01.07	Jill Hoffman	you know, KKMI and Bayside Boatworks and other shipyard and, and,
01:13:06.65	Jill Hoffman	You know, boat services may fit in services and professionals as well.
01:13:10.82	Unknown	But,
01:13:11.58	Unknown	that also is awkward. And,
01:13:14.15	Jill Hoffman	the level of professional services that are defined in there, even though that's meant to be the catch all,
01:13:19.21	Unknown	it seems pretty elevated.
01:13:21.39	Jill Hoffman	because you're talking about licensure under category three.
01:13:25.77	Unknown	of,
01:13:26.72	Jill Hoffman	you know, actual licensure. Like you're talking about professional services and that, and the definitions there
01:13:33.23	Unknown	are pretty,
01:13:34.38	Jill Hoffman	clearly laid out, the profession of law, medicine, surgery, dentistry, ophthalmologist.
01:13:40.28	Jill Hoffman	You know, and that's not what we're talking about at our boat yards and marine industries in Sausalito. Yeah.
01:13:45.50	Jill Hoffman	And so I'm struggling here with, we've broken out two very clear categories of category two rental units.
01:13:52.87	Unknown	And then we intentionally...
01:13:56.18	Unknown	you know, set out a category of contractors.
01:13:59.08	Unknown	And that's very specific.
01:14:01.67	Unknown	you know, industry in Sausalito.
01:14:03.98	Jill Hoffman	That requires very specific government licensure.
01:14:07.99	Unknown	And that's they're reselling stuff.
01:14:10.58	Unknown	wholesale, retail.
01:14:12.50	Unknown	But that's a whole category, and that's $2.
01:14:15.84	Unknown	her down.
01:14:16.62	Steven Woodside	Ms. Oplen, I hesitate to interrupt because I'm following your train of thought, but I think it's more deliberation than question. This is question time.
01:14:25.34	Jill Hoffman	Final question is, how do you drop the coin on that?
01:14:29.38	Jill Hoffman	Like, I don't know, other than we want to charge these guys a higher tax.
01:14:36.68	Unknown	Yeah.
01:14:36.85	Unknown	I...
01:14:37.12	Angeline Loeffler	If I may just briefly answer your questions on that one, is the SDA category three, as Ian mentioned, it became a catch-all category. Anything, any business that does not fit into other three categories is clearly defined.
01:14:51.55	Jill Hoffman	finds. Okay, so that's a great answer. Right. So it's just the fact that it's the catch-all. So let me ask you that. So here's my final question. So if we want to create a
01:15:03.53	Jill Hoffman	or if we want to create a category of lesser tax.
01:15:07.66	Unknown	I.
01:15:08.47	Unknown	Is it true that...
01:15:09.86	Unknown	That doesn't have to go to the voter.
01:15:11.83	Jill Hoffman	Can the council create a less category of lesser tax if we want to down tax something?
01:15:17.05	Unknown	That might be a Sergio questions.
01:15:17.08	Unknown	Thank you.
01:15:17.20	Unknown	might be a
01:15:20.81	Jill Hoffman	So if we wanted to create a category of Marine, Marine industry, and we want to create that at $2.
01:15:28.49	Jill Hoffman	per thousand of grocery seats. Can the council do that without going to the voters?
01:15:33.40	Sergio Rudin	I think the answer there is probably not. The council can choose to, like, say, declare a tax holiday or something like that. You know, you can defer a collection of taxes, whatever.
01:15:44.57	Sergio Rudin	without going to the voters for a period of time, although certain jurisdictions do actually have their voters approve tax holidays.
01:15:52.31	Sergio Rudin	But I think what you are proposing is effectively a change in rate and really a restructuring of the business license tax ordinance. And it would be safer for the city if that was approved by voters.
01:16:02.83	Unknown	Mr. City.
01:16:05.12	Unknown	Thank you.
01:16:05.14	Unknown	Thank you.
01:16:05.17	Unknown	Yeah.
01:16:05.66	Unknown	A discussion point.
01:16:07.11	Steven Woodside	but I want to follow up with the city attorney. We're looking, and I think it's our responsibility to either affirm or interpret
01:16:18.12	Unknown	Uh,
01:16:19.31	Steven Woodside	the plain language and the intent of these ordinances that ultimately that falls to us. That's not changing the ordinance. It's deciding which category is appropriate. And if we disagree with a consultant, if we read the language and interpret it as perhaps some of us are going to be inclined to do, it may be that this is category three is not a catch all and it's not
01:16:48.36	Steven Woodside	catching all the others. It's a professional category where people are not paying property taxes or other taxes, and that's why the rate is higher.
01:16:57.71	Steven Woodside	Whereas a contractor, category four, repairing buildings, is much more like a shipyard. I think everyone on the dais
01:17:08.94	Steven Woodside	knows about the shipyards, either because we've owned a boat
01:17:12.44	Unknown	sailed on a boat or otherwise,
01:17:14.82	Unknown	And it's a repair facility.
01:17:17.53	Unknown	So,
01:17:18.65	Unknown	Um,
01:17:20.47	Steven Woodside	I'm sorry that's not a question, but I question whether we have to go to the voters or we have our hands tied based on someone else's interpretation of a statute that ultimately
01:17:32.27	Unknown	we're called upon to interpret.
01:17:34.71	Sergio Rudin	So I will say in response to that, your job this evening is, in fact, to interpret the categories in...
01:17:43.10	Sergio Rudin	the municipal code as they currently stand and apply them to KKMI. That is the item that is agendized, and that is the duty of the council with respect to this particular appeal is to determine which of the four existing categories is the appropriate category.
01:17:57.90	Unknown	Thank you. I'll also...
01:17:59.50	Unknown	address one thing I...
01:18:01.46	Sergio Rudin	believe I was incorrect in my earlier statement about the effective tax rate
01:18:07.03	Sergio Rudin	for classification C in the prior business license tax ordinance. I've had a chance to look back over the materials, placing that on the ballot. Instead of four per a thousand, I believe is actually four per ten thousand. I wanted to correct that now, less less the applicant or the KKMI use their time to address that issue.
01:18:28.21	Unknown	Can I do one follow-on to it?
01:18:29.73	Unknown	Sure.
01:18:29.79	Unknown	Sure.
01:18:29.91	Unknown	Thank you.
01:18:30.53	Unknown	for the city attorney as well.
01:18:32.05	Joan Cox	My understanding when we placed this about initiative in front of the voters was that we could not increase the rate at which we were charging, but we could decrease the rate without having to go back to the voters. And so if we were to agree that HDL's interpretation of Category 3 is a reasonable interpretation, but we would agree.
01:18:56.81	Unknown	What we prefer to carve out
01:18:59.31	Unknown	a subcategory for marine
01:19:02.70	Unknown	professional services,
01:19:04.62	Unknown	Could we do that?
01:19:05.84	Joan Cox	you know, reduce that subset, it still is, it is still within the ambit of what we had the voters approve, it's we're actually charging less.
01:19:17.55	Unknown	Um, um,
01:19:20.79	Sergio Rudin	I think that is a very good question and one which I would like to research further based on looking over the ballot history and materials before I give you an answer on the dais tonight.
01:19:21.36	Unknown	Thank you.
01:19:31.40	Joan Cox	Thank you. Thank you. And that is just my recollection from being one of the proponents of the ballot, that that was our understanding at the time we put forward.
01:19:40.95	Steven Woodside	And we're not tonight going to be rewriting or changing a tax rate. Our job is to choose the right category, as I understand it.
01:19:40.97	Unknown	And
01:19:54.73	Unknown	interpret the existing ordinance and
01:19:58.03	Unknown	Well,
01:19:58.13	Unknown	Thank you.
01:19:58.15	Unknown	It doesn't make a determination.
01:19:58.17	Unknown	And then.
01:19:59.15	Melissa Blaustein	But is there a path where we would then add subcategory language so that we might avoid, I mean, and say, we find that it's the same, that it is category three, but it's,
01:20:08.36	Unknown	would require
01:20:09.98	Unknown	because...
01:20:11.19	Melissa Blaustein	I'm really struggling as there is no direct mention of maritime industries in our code.
01:20:16.56	Unknown	and they are a critical piece of our
01:20:20.21	Unknown	economic framework and I think our heart
01:20:22.97	Unknown	part of our industry.
01:20:25.10	Melissa Blaustein	care deeply about. So I'm just trying to understand what, what are our options? If we would like to find a path where there aren't penalties and potentially there are not back taxes because it appears KKMI paid on time consistently.
01:20:40.61	Unknown	Yeah, I think there are two questions there that we-
01:20:41.05	Unknown	They're kind of...
01:20:42.82	Unknown	Sorry, I just yeah, I want to know what our path is and what our options are.
01:20:45.72	Steven Woodside	I think the waiver of penalties is being recommended because they have been paying on time. The question is, at what rate should they be paying?
01:20:49.48	Unknown	because
01:20:56.12	Unknown	And I think that's before us tonight.
01:20:58.14	Ian Sobieski	Well, I was mentioning that for our attorney or for the gentleman from HDL. It sounds to me like the architecture of this structure is that there were specific categories that are very well defined for which there is no ambiguity that were taxed at particular rates. And then there is a catch all for everything else. That's what I'm hearing you say.
01:20:59.00	Unknown	and then prior to the future.
01:21:18.85	Unknown	And
01:21:19.71	Unknown	So tell me if I've got that wrong and then
01:21:22.81	Unknown	Can someone tell me if that's correct?
01:21:24.79	Ian (HDL Consultant)	I that I your understanding is my understanding. So yeah, all the different categories are set up to be specific.
01:21:31.20	Unknown	the professionals and services category.
01:21:33.95	Unknown	is set up to be specific or to be a catch all.
01:21:36.73	Ian Sobieski	Right. And then, and then I understand that HDL is actually contracted by the city of Sausalito to administer its tax collection. And you are in the business of reviewing hundreds and hundreds of these sorts of things and collecting the appropriate tax. So this is the first one in five years of these, this kind of appeal, uh,
01:21:57.66	Ian Sobieski	would you expect that, and this is a judgment question on your part, that
01:22:02.32	Unknown	if
01:22:03.31	Ian Sobieski	The city of social gets into the business of letting people say that, well, my business, it's not specifically mentioned, I'm in category three, but I'm more like this thing in category one or category two, that they would have a grounds then to make that kind of claim for a lower tax treatment.
01:22:20.61	Ian (HDL Consultant)	That would be a potential concern. I mean, there is obviously in general, because of the ambiguity, like the point of the ambiguity of this category is to make it so that it is where people kind of fall into when they're not specific. So for an example, there's nothing in there about software companies. There's nothing in there, like in the code about any type of
01:22:41.36	Ian (HDL Consultant)	you know, virtual business or anything else like that. And the reason for that is because again,
01:22:46.63	Ian (HDL Consultant)	codes throughout time, are they going to expire when
01:22:50.39	Ian (HDL Consultant)	the economy progresses and changes and becomes different. And the idea is that this category will be that fit for anything that basically changes in the future.
01:22:58.75	Ian (HDL Consultant)	And so I would say, yes, there would be a concern if they're like, you know, this could be a, you know, in theory, a slippery slope.
01:23:04.28	Ian (HDL Consultant)	if we have businesses kind of shift into a different category,
01:23:07.69	Unknown	mainly because of, you know, some
01:23:11.32	Unknown	specifics that you end up working out.
01:23:13.14	Unknown	I would agree that that has a potential to be there.
01:23:16.90	Angeline Loeffler	And if I like to add one more thing on that one, it will be creating another concern instead is some business, each business may be interpret things differently, which is some people, some business may be decided to put themselves on a category three versus one, even though they're on the same business. There's also fairness to each of the businesses, and we may not, and HDL and CED may not catch all of those misclassifications going forward. So being a consistency is also another concern as a CED.
01:23:48.58	Steven Woodside	Thank you. So I think we'll hear from KKM.
01:23:54.53	Unknown	Am I?
01:24:01.23	Paul Kaplan	And good evening. My name is Paul Kaplan. I am co-founder of KKMI. We started in Point Richmond in 1996 and then we opened our Sausalito yard in 2010. I am the CEO of the company. My business partner retired five years ago.
01:24:19.91	Paul Kaplan	The last time I was before the city council was actually in 2010.
01:24:25.72	Unknown	when we were in the process of launching the yard.
01:24:28.74	Unknown	We have gone ahead.
01:24:30.72	Paul Kaplan	and have become recognized as one of the most compliant
01:24:34.38	Paul Kaplan	certainly in the state of California, we have won
01:24:38.01	Paul Kaplan	Boatyard of the Year by our National Trade Association. And I won't spend the time sharing with you our recognition, but it's something that I'm very proud of.
01:24:48.18	Unknown	There's two reasons why I am here.
01:24:50.81	Paul Kaplan	The first one is that, thankfully, I have a fabulous controller, and our business is truly nickels and dimes, and she keeps track of all of our costs, and she brought this matter to my attention. I suspect that maybe some of the other reasons why colleagues of mine have not brought this matter to your attention and brought up this discrepancy is because we do keep track of these matters. Cindy Revelle will speak to the more detailed thing.
01:25:20.43	Paul Kaplan	But the second reason why I'm here truly is because I love what I do.
01:25:25.91	Paul Kaplan	The maritime industry is something that I thrive in. And I was so proud of this council in 2010. In the middle of the Great Recession, which frankly for the marine industry was not so great,
01:25:40.16	Unknown	Um,
01:25:42.06	Paul Kaplan	And we came before this council and we provided this plan where we were going to build this facility and now it's
01:25:50.21	Paul Kaplan	It's been realized. And this council gave us unanimous approval. And somebody came to me afterwards and said, you guys have just done something that this council does not do with any frequency. In fact, no one could even recall it being a unanimous vote.
01:26:07.70	Paul Kaplan	That to me speaks to the embedded nature of how this town loves the maritime industry. And it is shocking to me. In fact, I got to tell you, it's appalling that you have a business tax structure and they talk about beauticians and everything else under God's creation. And.
01:26:25.18	Paul Kaplan	But we're fixing boats. Why didn't somebody just put in the thing, we're in the boat fixing business and we wouldn't be here. So I think that if you really want to send a message that you embrace the maritime industry and want them here, don't triple our business license, because that's what you're doing.
01:26:40.55	Paul Kaplan	And that doesn't make any sense. That and the Boat Yard expression is stinking thinking.
01:26:45.07	Paul Kaplan	And we don't subscribe to that. We're in the business of fixing boats. We're in the business of supplying goods and services. But we can't fix the boats without the goods. Every customer, that third of the sales that you saw there, are goods. The West Marine is paying 1%. Why should we pay three times that for the same goods that we're putting in our customers' hands? That is part of that stinking thinking.
01:27:09.61	Paul Kaplan	But if you really want to celebrate the maritime history, you want to celebrate this really, really disappearing working waterfront.
01:27:18.81	Paul Kaplan	don't triple our taxes. It just makes little sense. I'd like to have Cindy...
01:27:23.75	Paul Kaplan	Ravel talked to you about the detail of really why we feel this way on us.
01:27:29.25	Unknown	Give you the nuts and bolts, sorry.
01:27:29.59	Unknown	That's involved.
01:27:31.11	Unknown	Ah, oui.
01:27:31.99	Unknown	um,
01:27:33.49	Unknown	I thank you for hearing our side of the story.
01:27:38.03	Unknown	There's,
01:27:39.31	Unknown	Hey.
01:27:40.85	Cindy Revelle	A couple of things that I want you, Angeline did a very good job of summarizing the points. So I don't want to go over the same things that Angeline presented. And I appreciate it.
01:27:50.09	Cindy Revelle	The fact that you took time to read our responses.
01:27:53.62	Cindy Revelle	And I can tell that, and it's kind of touching that you're taking it that seriously.
01:27:58.23	Unknown	But there's a couple of points that I would like to...
01:28:00.61	Unknown	to, sorry.
01:28:02.89	Unknown	Not the greatest public speaker here.
01:28:05.33	Cindy Revelle	So there's a couple of points that I want to make. And I do want to go back to our original business license. From the beginning, we have said we are boat repairer.
01:28:16.11	Cindy Revelle	That is clear in our applications. It's always been part of this.
01:28:20.50	Cindy Revelle	In 2018, before the wording changed into the most current code,
01:28:26.34	Cindy Revelle	Classification C is manufacturing wholesale studios, such as manufacturing, wholesale, grocery, public utilities, commercial,
01:28:36.25	Unknown	a job printing, newspapers, lumber,
01:28:38.90	Unknown	building supplies and repair.
01:28:41.58	Cindy Revelle	it clearly states in that classification three, before the business license changed, that that classification included repairs. It even goes on to say auto and watch and shoes.
01:28:56.55	Unknown	dry cleaning, janitorial.
01:28:58.91	Unknown	security services.
01:29:01.27	Cindy Revelle	Art studios, it is a catch-all. Those are very, very dynamic, different types of businesses. And that's how it was done before the new classifications came along.
01:29:13.57	Cindy Revelle	At that time, we were paying $1,200
01:29:17.51	Unknown	in taxes.
01:29:19.78	Unknown	When it changed in 2008,
01:29:22.31	Cindy Revelle	18 and we went to the current classification
01:29:25.56	Cindy Revelle	of the four different classifications. Even with our taxes going to classification one,
01:29:31.49	Unknown	our taxes were tripled.
01:29:33.52	Cindy Revelle	Now we're talking about tripling them again.
01:29:36.69	Unknown	and going retroactive.
01:29:38.92	Cindy Revelle	which is very painful. So I wanna make sure there's that one point about how a small business is being
01:29:46.01	Cindy Revelle	attacked in Sausalito with taxes being gone up
01:29:50.06	Unknown	pretty dramatically.
01:29:51.88	Cindy Revelle	Everybody seems to be talking a lot about classification, now talking about the new classifications.
01:29:58.97	Cindy Revelle	I think there is a fundamental problem with the classifications.
01:30:03.39	Cindy Revelle	Classification one and classification three were obviously not two and four.
01:30:09.87	Unknown	Why?
01:30:11.84	Cindy Revelle	But there's a lot of word that's talking about this services and professionals category and HDL and Angeline in the city of Sausalito keep describing that as being the catch all.
01:30:24.01	Cindy Revelle	If you read carefully in that category, I don't read it being a catch-all at all. It's very specific.
01:30:31.69	Cindy Revelle	It says services means any professional services.
01:30:36.94	Cindy Revelle	And then it goes on and talks about licensing required for those. And the city in Sausalito and us, when we were talking about it, they're basically saying, well, it may include a license, but it doesn't have to include a license. But then other paragraphs go on and say, yeah, it shall include a license.
01:30:55.57	Cindy Revelle	If Sausalito had really intended category three to be a catch-all, why are we even talking about professional at all? Somewhere in the code, it should be saying, service businesses fall under this category.
01:31:10.50	Cindy Revelle	But they don't. They go into this long explanation of professional services. And not one of those. And by the way, a hairstylist is required to maintain a license with the state of California.
01:31:23.81	Cindy Revelle	Every single example in there requires you be licensed with the state or some other public agency, and that's not us.
01:31:33.06	Unknown	And that's why we do not believe we are category three.
01:31:36.83	Cindy Revelle	I think there's a broad interpretation that's being applied by the city and HDL
01:31:41.92	Unknown	that
01:31:42.83	Unknown	Um,
01:31:44.59	Unknown	that I don't see the wording in the code.
01:31:48.35	Unknown	to support their broad interpretation.
01:31:53.62	Cindy Revelle	we chose category one because it at least was closer to what the intent was when the categories changed, and in addition to that, a third of our sales come from
01:32:06.88	Unknown	Part.
01:32:08.16	Cindy Revelle	We are selling parts and we are selling. There is nothing in these codes that talk about a business that does repair, installation, and sales.
01:32:18.78	Unknown	It really is.
01:32:20.30	Unknown	It's a vacuum.
01:32:23.10	Unknown	I'd like to just add that
01:32:25.39	Paul Kaplan	Over the course of the past 16 years in operating, we haven't changed what we've done.
01:32:31.27	Paul Kaplan	So why would we go into two different categories if we changed our operation that might make some sense, but we're still fixing boats from the city was perfectly happy receiving the revenue are the percentage of the revenue under that type of business operation.
01:32:47.92	Paul Kaplan	Why can't we just continue the way we were going along? So, you know, one was correct or the other. You can't be both correct.
01:32:55.61	Cindy Revelle	the intent of what was talked about as professional services.
01:33:01.28	Cindy Revelle	It talks about how things are commonly used for professional services. If you go out there and look at what is the definition, at least being a small business person, you're trying to read through a code, you're trying to figure out where you belong,
01:33:15.95	Cindy Revelle	If you go ahead and search professional services,
01:33:19.58	Unknown	Um,
01:33:20.37	Cindy Revelle	Sarah Silverman, Google say something like professional services are intangible specialized services or expertise like legal accounting counseling provided by qualified individuals.
01:33:34.09	Cindy Revelle	for complex tasks or requiring licenses, intellectual knowledge, focusing on advice and solutions rather than physical products.
01:33:45.01	Cindy Revelle	We are all about physical products. That doesn't sound like anything that we do. That does sound like lawyers, accountants, everybody that you referenced in Category 3 as being your examples. But that's not us.
01:33:58.90	Cindy Revelle	Wikipedia will talk about professional services is requiring specialized
01:34:06.03	Unknown	I guess I'm out.
01:34:06.90	Unknown	Thanks for listening. What's that?
01:34:06.93	Unknown	You can rest.
01:34:08.67	Unknown	What have you done?
01:34:09.70	Unknown	Thank you.
01:34:11.11	Unknown	They will go ahead and talk about
01:34:14.47	Unknown	Um,
01:34:17.02	Cindy Revelle	that requires special training in liberal arts and pure sciences, education, the professional services, doctors, engineers, lawyers,
01:34:26.57	Unknown	Um,
01:34:27.36	Cindy Revelle	specific skills, degrees, professional degrees,
01:34:32.23	Unknown	It, to me,
01:34:34.00	Cindy Revelle	As I read category three, it's really focusing on that. It's not a catch-all.
01:34:39.33	Unknown	as the words are written and
01:34:41.45	Unknown	The code.
01:34:42.81	Cindy Revelle	So that leaves it to be that there's a problem with the code that doesn't deal with a business like ours. But I really don't see how we should be penalized retroactive
01:34:52.58	Cindy Revelle	When the best of intention is you're trying to pay your taxes on time,
01:34:58.36	Cindy Revelle	and move forward and it seems a little hard that HDL waited. And we've said we've been in the repair business from the very beginning.
01:35:06.62	Unknown	HDL weights
01:35:08.54	Unknown	We get audited.
01:35:09.97	Unknown	until the maximum penalties could be assessed.
01:35:13.91	Unknown	it.
01:35:14.29	Cindy Revelle	I was a random audit that could be, but it feels a little hard that
01:35:19.42	Cindy Revelle	If this was the case, why couldn't it have been brought up a whole lot earlier?
01:35:22.88	Steven Woodside	Okay. Thank you very much. Any questions?
01:35:23.61	Unknown	Thank you.
01:35:30.29	Unknown	There's a lot that was covered earlier that addressed.
01:35:33.48	Unknown	Thank you.
01:35:34.10	Unknown	I have a question, but in response...
01:35:36.67	Unknown	to
01:35:37.85	Ian Sobieski	to actually Ian from HDL. So I don't know if that's appropriate in this container. Okay.
01:35:41.66	Steven Woodside	I think right now, let's start with, are there any questions for those from KK Ma?
01:35:42.05	Unknown	I think.
01:35:42.43	Unknown	Yep.
01:35:48.75	Unknown	Okay. So thank you very much.
01:35:50.66	Cindy Revelle	Thank you for your time. So thank you.
01:35:51.60	Unknown	So...
01:35:53.98	Unknown	um
01:35:56.19	Steven Woodside	Mr. City Attorney, in terms of order of procedure, do we take any public comments at this point?
01:36:03.60	Sergio Rudin	Yes, it would be helpful to take public comment before the two-minute rebuttal periods.
01:36:09.98	Sergio Rudin	so that both parties could respond to public comment.
01:36:14.05	Unknown	Can I answer to a question about the COVID?
01:36:15.85	Steven Woodside	And in the meantime, is it okay for any of us to ask you a question?
01:36:20.17	Unknown	Yes.
01:36:20.44	Unknown	Thank you.
01:36:20.98	Unknown	Okay.
01:36:21.93	Unknown	Sergio,
01:36:23.23	Melissa Blaustein	Noted in the staff report and in HCL's interpretation of their reasoning for the audit, it states that 70% of the
01:36:30.92	Melissa Blaustein	use or the, you know, the revenue is from what is they're determining as service use. But I was looking back through the relevant municipal code and I don't see anything that says
01:36:40.44	Unknown	X percentage or a majority percentage
01:36:43.51	Melissa Blaustein	puts you into that category. Am I missing something? Is there a very specific, if 50% of your services are professional and 50% are manufacturing, you have to be, I mean, where's the line there?
01:36:56.12	Sergio Rudin	You are correct in that there is nothing in the municipal code on that specific point.
01:37:02.16	Sergio Rudin	There is a provision of the municipal code authorizing the tax collector, which is defined as the finance director to make the classification determination.
01:37:11.14	Sergio Rudin	based on information received from the
01:37:15.29	Sergio Rudin	business and then also, of course, right of appeal to challenge that termination, which is why we are here.
01:37:23.17	Unknown	But there's nothing in the code that says...
01:37:25.26	Melissa Blaustein	majority percentage requires you to be X or Y use. So if we wanted to determine that because the 30% does qualify as that the current use, then they could still remain in that use.
01:37:37.83	Unknown	or that code.
01:37:39.27	Unknown	service level, whatever classification.
01:37:43.32	Unknown	I'm
01:37:44.45	Sergio Rudin	Yes, you in theory could do that or determine that the interpretation team
01:37:50.00	Sergio Rudin	taken by staff regarding what category three means and what it applies to is not correct.
01:37:55.35	Melissa Blaustein	But if we'd like to, as a body, we are allowed to make an interpretation based on the general types of use, which classification applies. So if we find that there is in fact service use, even if it's not the majority use, that is our prerogative to determine, correct?
01:38:11.63	Sergio Rudin	I do believe so. Typically, these kinds of decisions are reviewed for abuse of discretion.
01:38:18.57	Sergio Rudin	So, you know, as long as they're supported by evidence in the record and they are within the realm of reason, courts should be upholding them.
01:38:28.96	Unknown	Great. Thank you, Sergio.
01:38:33.44	Unknown	Andy, did you want to ask city attorney questions?
01:38:38.21	Unknown	Okay.
01:38:43.49	Unknown	And the council members microphone is off, so I'm not here.
01:38:45.91	Ian Sobieski	My question was for Ian from HDL, but I think under the procedure, I have to wait until...
01:38:50.72	Unknown	they do their rebuttal.
01:38:51.58	Steven Woodside	You'll be able to ask the question at some time, but let's let the...
01:38:55.93	Steven Woodside	Angeline, did you want to state anything more at this time in rebuttal? Do we take public comment first, or do we?
01:39:04.10	Sergio Rudin	Yeah, and actually it may be a good time to ask the question of HDL. That way the applicant would also have an opportunity to respond to anything HDL says.
01:39:12.45	Ian Sobieski	Okay. Okay. My question then for Ian from HDL is that the
01:39:17.19	Unknown	um, appellant,
01:39:19.64	Ian Sobieski	articulated this question about the definition that was provided in the slide set around category three as going on and on about
01:39:29.16	Ian Sobieski	services and chiropractors and osteopathy and whatnot. But the assertion from you is also very clear. You're asserting that this is the catch all. So if you're not in category one, two or four,
01:39:41.41	Ian Sobieski	you're in category three, that's your structure. Uh, so where do we see that in the,
01:39:49.22	Unknown	in their code.
01:39:51.60	Ian (HDL Consultant)	So it's in the services section. So there's two different definitions that are provided in category three.
01:39:58.15	Unknown	There's services.
01:39:59.67	Ian (HDL Consultant)	and then there's professional services. In the services section, it talks about that it basically says any other business or any other type of business that isn't mentioned in the category. And I'm obviously short handing that a little bit. But the idea is that there's two different sections. It says shall include but is not limited to and also includes the fact that it says, you know, any business that isn't mentioned in any part of this chapter or section. And the chapter section that is in question is the business tax chapter.
01:40:24.15	Unknown	the chat.
01:40:27.95	Ian Sobieski	Okay, so I don't know if you can actually pull that up because all that we saw in the presentation was the second half
01:40:34.16	Ian Sobieski	And that I think both leads to confusion and might be misleading on the pertinent law because
01:40:34.28	Unknown	And that,
01:40:34.55	Unknown	Thank you.
01:40:39.58	Ian Sobieski	The slide that Angeline showed only has this lengthy definition of quote professional services, but it doesn't have this first part that you're talking about. So can somebody.
01:40:48.71	Unknown	it.
01:40:49.13	Unknown	up.
01:40:50.19	Unknown	I can pull it up right now if that's OK.
01:40:53.35	Unknown	I think there is a slide on the calendar.
01:40:55.57	Steven Woodside	I thought it was on the slide. It's the paragraph before professional. Yeah. And if there's one.
01:40:59.54	Unknown	Yeah.
01:41:00.42	Ian Sobieski	Thank you for alerting me. I missed that slide. So I just didn't see it. So it's my fault as usual. So thank you. I'll read that.
01:41:01.35	Unknown	.
01:41:01.38	Unknown	I know.
01:41:07.99	Unknown	you
01:41:08.74	Steven Woodside	But let me take a moment to read it. It's short.
01:41:15.32	Steven Woodside	Services means any professional services, as that term is ordinarily and commonly used and understood, wherein individuals are engaged in the business of offering to the public professional or
01:41:30.54	Steven Woodside	Semi-Professional Services for Compensation
01:41:34.47	Steven Woodside	and not specifically covered under any other part, chapter, or section of this chapter.
01:41:41.49	Steven Woodside	and shall include those professions that may require governmental certification or licensure, but not limited to,
01:41:50.82	Steven Woodside	The services rendered by a person regularly engaged in the practice of a profession such as hair stylist, beautician, cosmetologist, astatician, or arts instructor. That's the complete sentence. And what I hear from Ian is that that's a catch-all.
01:42:12.41	Unknown	um,
01:42:14.03	Unknown	And I'll just be...
01:42:15.60	Unknown	Frank, I don't see it as a catch-all.
01:42:18.56	Steven Woodside	It's very specific. It has a number of ands.
01:42:22.31	Steven Woodside	And I know I'm jumping ahead perhaps, but I'm concerned that
01:42:31.76	Unknown	shall.
01:42:35.36	Unknown	I'm sorry.
01:42:35.46	Unknown	Thank you.
01:42:36.94	Unknown	Thank you. There is a shell in there. Yes.
01:42:43.14	Unknown	Thank you.
01:42:43.37	Unknown	Yeah.
01:42:43.56	Unknown	Thank you.
01:42:43.59	Unknown	Yeah.
01:42:44.79	Steven Woodside	Is there anything else, Angeline, that you needed to add at this point?
01:42:51.77	Angeline Loeffler	One quick comment on this category, these type of businesses normally does not have the additional sales tax revenue associated with it. And that was the reason I believe it was there in the higher classifications. Some of those examples on those who serve as a professional, they're not required to file the sales taxes. And that was the reason that led to the higher business license taxes imposed on these type of businesses as well, too. So once again, this is really limited to the examples that listed on the actually spelled it out in the code section is, like I said, it's a limited to. It's not the complete listing of the services that we spelled it out. So that's the where I see that it's false into to make sure that any businesses does not fall into the any of the clearly defined categories in the code section should fall into these particular categories.
01:43:50.60	Unknown	So Mr. Mark, could I ask a follow up question to yours then?
01:43:53.64	Ian Sobieski	Sure. Because you're emphasizing the ands, which are these conjunctions that make a logical...
01:43:59.38	Ian Sobieski	uh, connection. So it seemed to see, suggest that services only mean
01:44:04.25	Ian Sobieski	if you're putting a lot of weight on the word and, something that qualifies on all of those check marks.
01:44:10.13	Ian Sobieski	and might be poorly drafted, but it's hard to imagine that that's the intent in this Section three or it would be extremely limiting. It would be only the sections three would be only those things that met
01:44:19.51	Ian Sobieski	all of those things that you just conjoined with the word and so it'd be
01:44:24.17	Ian Sobieski	almost potentially a null set, very small number of things. So I'm still confused as to this point, because Angeline is asserting and Ian is asserting from HDL that this is the catch all.
01:44:35.54	Ian Sobieski	Reading this, it suggests that it should actually say or, perhaps, so that it catches all those things. But you're right, it says and, but then it would mean that Section 3
01:44:44.28	Unknown	Isn't.
01:44:45.50	Ian Sobieski	You can't very few things could be all of those things that are conjoined by the word and.
01:44:49.48	Unknown	second part to section three.
01:44:52.33	Unknown	that lists
01:44:53.66	Unknown	Tons of professions.
01:44:55.94	Steven Woodside	Correct. Okay. This first one. Who don't pay property taxes. Right.
01:44:56.92	Unknown	Thank you.
01:44:57.26	Unknown	with you.
01:45:00.09	Steven Woodside	maybe don't pay sales taxes. And so there's a rationale to have a catch all category at a high tax rate. This is a shipyard.
01:45:08.89	Unknown	It doesn't fit.
01:45:11.74	Unknown	it.
01:45:13.69	Steven Woodside	That's correct. I stand corrected. But isn't that what this case is all about?
01:45:20.24	Unknown	Isn't that right?
01:45:22.74	Angeline Loeffler	If I may, one statement onto that one is the HDA and I were interpreting this category three is not services and professional. We'll look at it as services or professional separate categories.
01:45:38.80	Angeline Loeffler	So that's how we make the determinations. KKMI is falling to the service categories. That is, we made the determinations for the ID that they should be in the category threes.
01:45:56.02	Unknown	Thank you.
01:45:57.20	Unknown	Ms. Hoffman.
01:45:58.28	Jill Hoffman	I have a follow up for, this is either for Angeline or Ian, and it's the statement in the staff report
01:46:06.07	Jill Hoffman	that an examination of KKMI's profit and loss statement reveals that over 70% of its revenue are derived from service
01:46:14.16	Unknown	related activities.
01:46:16.27	Unknown	And I'm looking at attachment six.
01:46:18.81	Unknown	Thank you.
01:46:18.92	Jill Hoffman	And that's the KMI. And is that the profit and loss statement? And is that what was used to look at
01:46:18.97	Unknown	Mm-hmm.
01:46:28.03	Jill Hoffman	where that 70% of its revenues are derived from service-related activities.
01:46:32.97	Jill Hoffman	Because I'm looking at the profit and loss statement and it looks to me like,
01:46:37.80	Unknown	the
01:46:39.62	Unknown	Well, let me ask you this. What were you what did you rely on
01:46:42.74	Jill Hoffman	when you were looking at the revenues that were derived from service-related activities for your 70% numbers. Can you tell me what activities you were looking at? Yes, I can. Thank you.
01:46:50.54	Angeline Loeffler	Yes, I can. So labor repair is part of the service label, and it's haul and launch is the service label.
01:46:59.18	Angeline Loeffler	the labor and also outside services considered as a services it's and also same thing with the storages is considered as a service related revenues
01:47:10.84	Jill Hoffman	So thank you so much for that. And then I'll have a follow-up question on those. So let me read this back to you. So labor and repair parts,
01:47:21.40	Jill Hoffman	haul and launch and storage. And that's what we relied on to get your 70% number for service.
01:47:25.30	Angeline Loeffler	No, not the parts. It's for the labor repair second items.
01:47:29.91	Angeline Loeffler	And the fourth item, hall and lounge. And the outside service is right below the hall and lounge. And the last item is a storage feast.
01:47:45.70	Unknown	And so you did include storage.
01:47:48.12	Unknown	Thank you.
01:47:48.13	Unknown	Yes.
01:47:48.64	Unknown	Okay.
01:47:48.74	Angeline Loeffler	That is strictly the services. There's no tangible goods are involved.
01:47:54.70	Jill Hoffman	Okay, thank you. And just foreshadow, Paul, I'm going to ask you if any parts and sales are included in any of those.
01:48:03.05	Angeline Loeffler	No, it has not. It's part of the 30%.
01:48:07.49	Unknown	Okay.
01:48:08.38	Jill Hoffman	Okay. So I'm still going to ask Paul that question. Thanks.
01:48:17.53	Unknown	Did you want to ask Paul?
01:48:18.54	Unknown	Yeah.
01:48:19.20	Unknown	If you're done, Angelina, are you finished?
01:48:21.28	Unknown	Well...
01:48:21.68	Paul Kaplan	The city attorney invited me to comment on HDL.
01:48:28.41	Paul Kaplan	First of all, the only reason why we're here is because HDL has made this determination.
01:48:34.93	Paul Kaplan	And, you know, frankly, I got to tell you, I work with contractors and so on. I understand why the city does what they've done. But it's kind of frustrating to even be here and not able to even face my accuser. They want to be able to have Ian there, but he's not even a part of the dialogue. We had a meeting scheduled several weeks ago. Took a long time to put the meeting together, get all these voices and then talking heads and so on. HDL didn't even bother to show. They didn't even send their representative. And it sort of begs the question, what's their motivation? Do they get a piece of every dollar that they're able to put into the city's coffers beyond what's currently there? Because it's sort of puzzling because it's so obvious how this thinking is so poor, yet what would motivate somebody to do it? And especially when they're not connected to really understanding what it is that makes this town and this waterfront work. If it's all being motivated by money, that's just hunky-dory. But they also were the folks that initiated this whole process. And it's crazy to me that I can't even have a face-to-face conversation with the people that initiated that. So I'm sorry to get a little dirty in that area. But the city attorney asked for us to comment. And I frankly kind of.
01:49:53.24	Paul Kaplan	It's hard enough to run a small business, let alone devote your time on things that produce actually no revenue, no services to our customers, no betterment at all, other than potentially feathering the nest of some other contractor. So thank you.
01:50:07.61	Jill Hoffman	So you're frustrated with the fact that you didn't get to have a sit down with HDL and ask them what their methodology was for moving you from category one to category three?
01:50:15.17	Unknown	They didn't show.
01:50:15.99	Unknown	If I could.
01:50:16.90	Jill Hoffman	Okay. So my point was, I was trying to get to
01:50:21.22	Jill Hoffman	the comment in the staff report that 70% of your revenues were derived from just the service activities. My suspicion is your service activities are closely related also to your sales.
01:50:31.70	Jill Hoffman	because you also do sales. Can you comment on that, Cindy? Yes, that's Cindy.
01:50:34.08	Unknown	Yes, that's it. Like, comment on that. Okay.
01:50:35.59	Unknown	Okay.
01:50:36.24	Unknown	So as it relates to
01:50:38.59	Unknown	uh, storage.
01:50:40.12	Cindy Revelle	There are no parts that go along with storage. OK.
01:50:42.98	Unknown	Fair enough.
01:50:43.90	Cindy Revelle	Okay, as it relates to all the other categories, whether they are outside services that are not just services, that means we've hired another company to do an activity.
01:50:55.06	Cindy Revelle	But when you talk about the general labor and you talk about the parts and you talk about the haul out,
01:51:00.12	Cindy Revelle	What that really is to envision is
01:51:03.88	Unknown	You can't work on the boat unless you get the boat out of the water.
01:51:07.83	Cindy Revelle	So you've got to haul the boat out of the water. So it's the charges for that.
01:51:12.20	Cindy Revelle	But then you're immediately putting a tech on a repair tech to do the repair who's equally selling parts at the same time as they're doing labor.
01:51:21.01	Unknown	And you sell the parts through your shop.
01:51:23.66	Cindy Revelle	Yes, the bill to a customer looks like you've got this many parts, this many hours of labor, and this is the total.
01:51:31.10	Jill Hoffman	And you run those through your shop. Are those sometimes retail and sometimes wholesale?
01:51:34.88	Unknown	There are a few.
01:51:36.34	Unknown	No, Jose. Good.
01:51:36.35	Unknown	No wholesale, good. There's tiny wholesale.
01:51:39.03	Jill Hoffman	Okay, but mostly it's retail and that's through your shop that you have on your boatyard.
01:51:43.83	Cindy Revelle	Correct. We collect all the sales tax on all the parts.
01:51:44.15	Unknown	Okay.
01:51:47.42	Unknown	Okay.
01:51:48.06	Unknown	Is there...
01:51:49.09	Unknown	Okay.
01:51:50.48	Unknown	Okay.
01:51:51.29	Unknown	Yeah, I think our questions have been answered.
01:51:51.29	Steven Woodside	Yeah, I think our questions have been answered.
01:51:51.56	Unknown	Thank you.
01:51:51.57	Unknown	Thanks.
01:51:51.94	Unknown	Thank you.
01:51:54.95	Unknown	Oh.
01:51:55.42	Cindy Revelle	Yeah, and you would have broken the- I've had a lot of time. I just want to make one comment on the HDL. You ask questions of HDL,
01:52:02.83	Unknown	you don't get an answer.
01:52:04.73	Unknown	They just say thank you very much and you don't get, okay.
01:52:05.04	Unknown	Thank you.
01:52:05.07	Unknown	Okay.
01:52:05.26	Unknown	you think, you know,
01:52:07.65	Unknown	Thank you.
01:52:07.67	Unknown	Okay.
01:52:08.35	Unknown	Thank you. Thank you for your time. I appreciate it.
01:52:10.05	Unknown	Thank you.
01:52:10.25	Steven Woodside	Okay. Mr. City Attorney, next in the procedure.
01:52:10.59	Unknown	Thank you.
01:52:16.94	Unknown	public comment, which we have not had yet, I believe.
01:52:19.48	Steven Woodside	That's right, okay. So does anyone in the public wish to add something to this discussion, seeing none in the...
01:52:27.41	Unknown	We have the bet. McDougall.
01:52:34.62	Unknown	Ms. McDougal.
01:52:35.85	Unknown	Yes, sir. Here I am. Thank you very much for acknowledging me.
01:52:38.98	Babette McDougall	So, you know, I got to say, as a resident and someone that was involved with a beautiful Erickson 32 that sat at Clipper for 30 years and always got pulled out what was formerly Anderson, every time I'm in that neighborhood, I actually do a pale KKMI thank you.
01:52:58.47	Unknown	for coming in and taking up the place.
01:53:01.28	Babette McDougall	where everybody loved to hang out at Anderson's. I mean, it was a great place. The community there was wonderful.
01:53:07.58	Babette McDougall	And KKMI is similar. And I just went on the website and looked at what they do under, you know, how they spend their time. And it's kind of insulting to have a business stand there
01:53:19.49	Unknown	And it's like,
01:53:21.33	Babette McDougall	Being slapped around, it makes me embarrassed.
01:53:24.67	Babette McDougall	Because look, everything that they offer, like they said, parts, that goes ka-ching one way or the other.
01:53:32.03	Babette McDougall	And I don't understand this pennywise pound foolish. I don't really understand why Sausalito...
01:53:37.85	Babette McDougall	doesn't just step up and get rid of these middlemen. These consultants are making us nuts. They're breaking the bank.
01:53:45.61	Babette McDougall	And we don't have control of our own destiny. I thought Ms. Blaustein was brilliant.
01:53:50.44	Babette McDougall	When she said the obvious, which is, why don't we have a maritime classification? That is who we are.
01:53:57.16	Babette McDougall	So I just ask you, what are you doing? Why are we spending this past hour plus debating this down to the dirty details when it shouldn't have happened in the first place? Thank you. I yield back my time.
01:54:12.06	Unknown	Any other public comments?
01:54:12.18	Unknown	Yeah, they're public.
01:54:13.00	Unknown	Yeah. Next speaker is John.
01:54:18.13	Unknown	Hello, can you hear me?
01:54:19.65	Unknown	Yes.
01:54:19.97	Unknown	the next week.
01:54:20.68	Unknown	Thank you.
01:54:20.70	Unknown	Um,
01:54:21.31	John DeRay	This is John DeRay. I'm a member of the Sausalito Working Waterfront Coalition and also a member of the Economic Development Advisory Committee. I'd like to comment in support of KKMI's appeal of the $36,000 for the misclassification as it was approved by the city. So I don't see it as being their fault and also the $29,000 for the related penalty.
01:54:45.15	John DeRay	I think should also we should also accept the appeal of KKMI. I think it's important to understand that these boat yards and other businesses in the Marineship are part of an
01:54:57.10	John DeRay	economic ecosystem that generate
01:55:00.76	Unknown	Um,
01:55:01.77	Unknown	direct revenue
01:55:03.63	John DeRay	not only direct revenue into Sausalito's economy from their business, but also indirect revenue.
01:55:09.57	John DeRay	as other maritime businesses like engine repair techs, riggers, electricians are tapped for their expertise. Of course, sales tax is part of this as well, as you've discussed. And then there's also the induced revenue by their employees at grocery stores, restaurants, retail stores.
01:55:28.16	John DeRay	And also the boat owners who come drop off their boat and spend money in our local economy.
01:55:33.65	Unknown	So,
01:55:34.32	John DeRay	The point three category for maritime businesses, I think is, uh,
01:55:38.71	Unknown	in my view, a bit egregious,
01:55:40.87	John DeRay	I kind of like at the very most, perhaps the mayor's
01:55:46.34	John DeRay	idea of declaring maritime businesses should be part of Category 4, which make it the 0.2%, or perhaps leave it at the 0.1%. But I think the 0.3% is a bit egregious. Remember, we would like to attract more maritime businesses to our waterfront. So this is an opportunity to do that, I think. Thank you.
01:56:11.53	Unknown	Any other comments?
01:56:12.04	Unknown	Yes, we have Adrian Britton.
01:56:18.20	Adrian Brinton	Good evening, Mayor and members of the council. Thank you for having
01:56:21.45	Unknown	we're pretty sure.
01:56:21.61	Unknown	We're having a very difficult time hearing you.
01:56:24.83	Unknown	Sorry, is this any better?
01:56:27.77	Unknown	A little bit.
01:56:29.44	Adrian Brinton	Okay, I'll try to speak loudly and clearly. It's always a good day when I can find common ground with Mr. Duree. And I think that, you know, prioritizing our maritime businesses is very important. And I'm surprised to learn that we don't have a category for maritime businesses. You know, we can use our tax code to encourage the type of businesses that we want in Sausalito.
01:56:51.97	Adrian Brinton	And by creating a category for maritime and even industrial, that would be a way to do that. I'd be interested to understand how our tax rates compare to other industrial areas like Richmond. Are we charging more? Are we charging less? Maybe we can charge less and encourage more businesses. I'd also be very interested to know in the marinship,
01:57:13.65	Adrian Brinton	how much tax revenue is coming from the different types of businesses, maritime versus the businesses, the more kind of white collar businesses. My sense is it's not as much, and it's something that we want to encourage. And I don't think it's an area that we're going to see
01:57:30.71	Adrian Brinton	a massive growth in city revenue, and it's something we should be supporting. So lowering the tax rates here on the maritime businesses and increasing tax rates, using our increased tax rates on other types of businesses, I think would be very advantageous to our longer-term plans and would fit better with our identity. Thank you very much.
01:57:50.37	Unknown	Any other public comments?
01:57:51.84	Unknown	Yes, we have a Karen Culligan.
01:57:58.11	Unknown	Mr. Culligan.
01:57:59.47	Karen Culligan	Yeah, good evening. I wasn't planning on commenting on this topic, but since I've been listening for the past,
01:58:06.01	Unknown	hour plus when I started,
01:58:07.67	Unknown	I expected that this was going to be pretty clear that
01:58:11.40	Unknown	This is a service business, even though there's a mix of
01:58:14.57	Karen Culligan	materials and services, but it's predominantly services and
01:58:18.30	Karen Culligan	it'll be in category three. And then as I listened to it and now looking at the actual,
01:58:22.41	Unknown	code that's being referenced.
01:58:24.34	Unknown	It just doesn't.
01:58:25.50	Karen Culligan	Makes sense. I think it's not clear cut here.
01:58:30.36	Unknown	The category three is not
01:58:33.05	Unknown	It might be intended as a catch-all,
01:58:35.66	Unknown	The ordinance, as its phrase is,
01:58:38.01	Karen Culligan	not written that way. And so I don't think that there's a way for city council to
01:58:43.07	Karen Culligan	make that finding and make a change. So my suggestion would be
01:58:47.27	Unknown	Good night.
01:58:48.22	Unknown	the city council uphold
01:58:51.19	Unknown	the appeal because there is
01:58:53.65	Unknown	kind of no basis to overturn
01:58:55.79	Unknown	the categorization
01:58:57.41	Unknown	that the city has already made to be category one.
01:59:00.20	Unknown	So keep it as is and the city's already made that finding.
01:59:03.23	Karen Culligan	And there's some cleanup to do clearly in our code for all of the reasons stated. Thank you.
01:59:11.62	Unknown	Any others? Yes, we have Lorna Newland.
01:59:18.03	Unknown	Thank you.
01:59:18.15	Unknown	Thank you.
01:59:19.60	Lorna Newland	Hello, I'm Lorna Newland, longtime resident, longtime small business owner. And I know it's very difficult to...
01:59:28.16	Lorna Newland	sometimes get things done and sometimes it's not. Sometimes everything goes well for your small business, but I wanted to comment.
01:59:37.04	Unknown	on um
01:59:38.82	Lorna Newland	want the present in the presentation where they talked about how difficult it can be to deal with hdl.gov and several years ago i had trouble getting my business license up to date and back and forth they could not find i've had an occupational permit for 23 years so unfortunately they couldn't find it i don't know where mine mine was, but it was just a lot of difficulty getting through to them when I did have,
02:00:09.47	Lorna Newland	All my proper things. So I'm just concurring when the nice woman had said about how difficult it was to deal with. And I do agree with that when something is farmed out to a contractor. And even though they're working for the city, you can't get an answer from like city staff. You have to go right to them. Thank you.
02:00:36.20	Unknown	No further public comment.
02:00:37.60	Steven Woodside	Very well, so bring it back here for discussion and decision.
02:00:41.67	Joan Cox	Um, Mayor, the city manager had stepped out when Mr. Kaplan made his rebuttal comments. And I wanted to ask him a question if that's okay, because he didn't hear. So, Mr. City manager, we heard.
02:00:51.22	Unknown	Sure.
02:00:51.32	Unknown	Sure.
02:00:51.40	Unknown	I'm not sure.
02:00:55.32	Unknown	from Mr. Kaplan that
02:00:57.19	Unknown	after much, um,
02:00:59.91	Joan Cox	Coordination, a meeting was scheduled between KKMI, city staff, and HDL, and the HDL did not show up.
02:01:10.10	Unknown	Do I have to answer that question?
02:01:12.67	Unknown	I would appreciate...
02:01:13.97	Unknown	Yeah.
02:01:14.22	Joan Cox	understanding because if HDL said they were going to come to a meeting, it didn't come that seems.
02:01:20.78	Unknown	Thank you.
02:01:20.90	Unknown	.
02:01:20.99	Unknown	Thank you.
02:01:21.34	Chris Zapata	I saw that email from Mr. Kaplan and I intended to respond to it because it's not quite accurate. HDL, I believe, participated late or somebody that wasn't party to that particular case was there. And I can document that. I'm happy to do that with Mr. Kaplan. You know, my understanding was it just was a shortage of someone out of town from HDL. So they had to send someone else. But they had someone at the meeting. The meeting was predominantly with city staff and the city attorney and Mr. Kaplan and Cindy, but yeah, HDL had a representative there.
02:01:53.54	Unknown	All right. Thank you.
02:01:56.19	Unknown	question.
02:01:56.63	Unknown	from
02:01:57.20	Unknown	Mr. Sobi.
02:01:57.74	Unknown	ESCAPE.
02:01:57.98	Ian Sobieski	Yeah, thanks. I don't know if this is a Sergio question or a city manager question, but if we find for KKMI in this case and
02:02:07.27	Ian Sobieski	Find that give them a different classification, whether it be one or two.
02:02:10.84	Unknown	uh,
02:02:12.44	Ian Sobieski	that will dispose of this particular case. But then what is the legal...
02:02:16.62	Ian Sobieski	obligation of the city for all other businesses like KKMI.
02:02:21.99	Ian Sobieski	to refund them there if the category is different are we then should we immediately uh go through all the shipyards and other businesses doing an audit of ourselves find out everyone that's similar and issue them a refund and would that go all the way back till 2010 or
02:02:40.69	Ian Sobieski	What? So that's my question. What would be the larger implications of what we then would have to do as an organization?
02:02:48.04	Unknown	Sure, Gary.
02:02:48.06	Unknown	And you,
02:02:49.02	Unknown	answer that?
02:02:50.10	Sergio Rudin	Yes, yes. There is a procedure for seeking and requesting a refund, which any business that feels that they have been misqualified would need to avail themselves of.
02:02:59.98	Sergio Rudin	Typically also with regards to refunds of legal taxes, public agent or
02:03:06.27	Unknown	you know, um,
02:03:07.72	Unknown	Individuals do normally have to file a government code claim.
02:03:11.15	Sergio Rudin	but we do have a different process set forth in our ordinance for seeking refund of business license taxes for overpayment.
02:03:21.24	Unknown	So...
02:03:22.37	Unknown	I mean,
02:03:23.60	Unknown	So that is a process, but since we...
02:03:23.65	Unknown	Yeah.
02:03:26.44	Ian Sobieski	You know, we're a small town. We know a couple of the of these shipyard operators. So if we are actively found in the favor of KQMI in this case, are we bound to have to wait for the refund applications or could we proactively direct staff to issue those refunds retroactively to.
02:03:44.36	Unknown	the beginning of the collection of the taxes in 2010.
02:03:48.05	Unknown	Thank you.
02:03:48.10	Unknown	This is my question.
02:03:50.53	Sergio Rudin	I think you could make that determination, give that direction. That's not before youth's evening on the agenda.
02:03:56.34	Unknown	.
02:03:56.39	Unknown	That'd be a separate item.
02:03:57.84	Sergio Rudin	I would recommend, yeah, you can see.
02:04:01.37	Ian Sobieski	So absent a separately agendized item of some kind or another, all that will be decided here today is the particular...
02:04:07.61	Ian Sobieski	issue of the tax obligation of KKMI.
02:04:11.20	Unknown	Correct. Yes, that is the only item for you to decide tonight.
02:04:13.97	Steven Woodside	Okay, thank you very much. And at a future date, we could give direction with respect to, for example, a self-audit, if you will, of like...
02:04:22.93	Steven Woodside	industries and suggests, for example, that their
02:04:27.74	Steven Woodside	tax bill be adjusted prospectively
02:04:32.59	Sergio Rudin	Yeah, that would be my expectation is that
02:04:37.18	Sergio Rudin	generally you want to apply your tax ordinance the same way you must apply all other ordinances fairly and equitably among similarly situated individuals. So I would expect that with regards to if the council makes an interpretation about this business specifically, and that interpretation applies to other similarly situated businesses,
02:04:59.43	Sergio Rudin	I do think that I would expect that the tax collector would
02:05:02.86	Sergio Rudin	follow that determination and use it moving forward.
02:05:08.90	Steven Woodside	Thank you. I'm prepared to move forward to grant the appeal and
02:05:17.10	Steven Woodside	make the determination that it appears that there is no
02:05:23.06	Steven Woodside	clear category, uh, applicable.
02:05:27.21	Steven Woodside	However, it's a choice as I see it between categories one and category four.
02:05:36.90	Unknown	but neither of those is perfect.
02:05:39.51	Steven Woodside	and I'm prepared to suggest that we grant the appeal and
02:05:44.81	Unknown	uh,
02:05:45.59	Steven Woodside	place KKMI in category one.
02:05:49.92	Steven Woodside	and then ask for staff to come back to take a look at what we might do prospectively to clarify this going forward.
02:06:00.67	Steven Woodside	So that's all right. I'd like to make that motion. Yes.
02:06:05.65	Unknown	Second.
02:06:09.62	Sergio Rudin	And council, one of the requirements of the city ordinance is that you make a written finding.
02:06:16.40	Sergio Rudin	There is a draft resolution in the agenda packet, so the Council would need to modify Section 1 of that resolution.
02:06:23.03	Sergio Rudin	to find that the City Council overturns the classification determination, the City Finance Director reclassifying KKMI
02:06:30.14	Sergio Rudin	from business license category one to category three.
02:06:33.63	Sergio Rudin	and classifies KKMI in category one.
02:06:37.75	Unknown	So those would be the modifications to that resolution.
02:06:41.05	Ian Sobieski	Thank you. Can I ask you a question? Since there's no motion on the table, right? We can discuss it. So just in terms of some other businesses that are kind of analogs a little bit, the car...
02:06:51.08	Unknown	repair businesses on gate five road.
02:06:53.10	Unknown	um, Ian, our Angela, Angeline, um,
02:06:56.44	Unknown	or what category are they in?
02:06:58.81	Unknown	They would be under category three.
02:07:00.92	Unknown	So the car repair businesses are in category three.
02:07:03.82	Unknown	Can you name other kinds of...
02:07:04.00	Unknown	he named up the
02:07:05.52	Unknown	but,
02:07:06.11	Ian Sobieski	it sends analog businesses to the marina to the boatyard that are analogous that are analogous uh
02:07:10.67	Unknown	I guess.
02:07:14.69	Unknown	that might be also in
02:07:16.86	Unknown	category three, the car repair is one of them, but.
02:07:20.24	Ian (HDL Consultant)	Yeah, I would say like technically like handyman services. So things that handyman services, people that don't fall into category four, the contractor category would typically fall in. Other types of repair services. So like, you know, window repair, other different types of businesses that would fall into that kind of general repair category. And then things that are not directly analogous, but are
02:07:44.23	Ian (HDL Consultant)	in that category that aren't specifically mentioned in those categories would be, like I mentioned, software companies or other types of service-based businesses that don't provide like a direct retail transaction.
02:07:54.41	Unknown	Councilmember, may I suggest that
02:07:57.46	Joan Cox	If we, if we adopt the motion proposed by the mayor and vice mayor this evening, that we just have staff returned to us with a plan for how to treat other businesses, because council member Hoffman mentioned, you know, there is certain licensure required for car repair businesses and other types of businesses.
02:08:17.43	Unknown	And
02:08:18.31	Unknown	If HDL, having heard our...
02:08:21.38	Unknown	commentary this evening.
02:08:22.83	Unknown	.
02:08:23.62	Unknown	can then have time to
02:08:25.24	Joan Cox	and as well as our finance director, can have time to thoughtfully
02:08:29.69	Unknown	consider
02:08:30.69	Unknown	what
02:08:32.65	Joan Cox	which, if any, other businesses we should treat differently in light of the decision that we've made to uphold the appeal. So upholding the appeal does not set precedent for how we're going to treat other businesses. Give staff the opportunity to thoughtfully consider that and come back to us with a recommended plan.
02:08:50.22	Ian Sobieski	Yeah, that's, that is exactly my concern. I mean, full disclosure, I get my boat hauled out at KKMI. I thought about
02:08:56.05	Ian Sobieski	I thought it was a small enough matter that it didn't require my recusal, but I have a positive business relationship. They run a boatyard that is so clean you could eat off the ground. It is an environment, a testament to sustainable industrial work. It's a point of pride and a jewel to Sausalito in the Bay Area.
02:09:14.50	Unknown	So, you know, I'm
02:09:16.76	Ian Sobieski	Torn because I also had to live through the first two years in office when we regularly had people coming here concerned about how they were classified in the business license tax. I was not on the council when you all.
02:09:28.72	Ian Sobieski	went from all those categories to just to a couple, but especially when you went to just to a couple, then the difference between them became somewhat material.
02:09:37.13	Ian Sobieski	And it's been a regular ask for two years from people earlier on to just readdress the whole business license tax issue. So I am concerned about whether or not we are setting a precedent and a precedent that would...
02:09:51.07	Ian Sobieski	then mean that we've spent two and a half hours on this, that we would regularly start hearing appeals on the classifications of things. So I would love to just...
02:10:00.89	Ian Sobieski	Paul and KKMI at both a personal level and as a
02:10:06.09	Ian Sobieski	as a statement of our commitment to the industry, I would like to dredge the channel, which would make a lot bigger difference to the long-term sustainability of the country.
02:10:12.41	Unknown	Let's not fall in
02:10:13.17	Unknown	here today.
02:10:13.48	Unknown	She's...
02:10:13.54	Unknown	Thank you.
02:10:13.71	Unknown	Thank you.
02:10:13.81	Ian Sobieski	But honestly, but to wrap that up, I'm just concerned that we're in our earnestness to help. We could be really laying a minefield for us and creating a huge kerfuffle and problem. And so you're the lawyer. So if you think that's not going to happen, maybe I'll defer to it, but I'm working.
02:10:14.03	Unknown	But,
02:10:31.82	Steven Woodside	Well, it could happen. And let me just say, from my perspective, having read it,
02:10:37.03	Steven Woodside	I don't think that category three is a catch all.
02:10:41.19	Steven Woodside	And if it was meant to be a catch-all, it should have been a separate category. He said, if you're not specifically in one of these others, you're going to pay the highest rate.
02:10:49.56	Steven Woodside	And whatever the rationale is for that or some other rate.
02:10:53.50	Steven Woodside	for the catch alls. I think it's easy to look at this years later and to say those ends mean something. And lawyers are gonna argue that
02:11:04.98	Unknown	It doesn't apply to KKMI.
02:11:08.66	Steven Woodside	the way it's worded. Now, what's the long-term purpose? What flexibility do we have without going to the voters to make modifications? Those are all important questions and the fiscal impact that this could be if we somehow think that by
02:11:23.71	Steven Woodside	the categorization of KKMI is going to undo the whole system. I'd be surprised if it did, but we need to hear from staff and to see what other,
02:11:35.89	Steven Woodside	issues this might raise, but it's the wording that has thrown me from the beginning.
02:11:40.89	Ian Sobieski	Can I ask a question of our city attorney then? Sure. At that point, I mean, you are the advisor to the city.
02:11:45.55	Ian Sobieski	If we find in KKMI's favor, do we establish a precedent for all the other...
02:11:51.47	Unknown	Bill yards and the second question I have for you,
02:11:54.57	Ian Sobieski	to process and think about is what do you think that section mean? Is it a cut is category three, a catch all as written or is it not?
02:12:01.97	Sergio Rudin	So I did provide the council with my email analysis of that language previously.
02:12:08.60	Unknown	Um,
02:12:09.71	Sergio Rudin	via confidential email. And so you do have that.
02:12:13.85	Unknown	Um,
02:12:15.20	Unknown	I will say that, you know,
02:12:17.80	Unknown	the
02:12:19.47	Sergio Rudin	materials that were before the council in 2018 to place this measure on the ballot indicated it was intended to raise close to $900,000 extra per year.
02:12:30.43	Sergio Rudin	And so, you know, the purpose of the business license tax rework was to simplify the categories, but also to significantly increase the tax rates and to generate
02:12:41.27	Sergio Rudin	additional revenue to the city, because I believe at the time the city was facing some concern over, you know,
02:12:48.69	Unknown	finances.
02:12:50.35	Unknown	Um,
02:12:51.58	Sergio Rudin	that was the reason that it placed that measure on the ballot along with the TOT measure.
02:12:56.49	Unknown	Um,
02:12:57.45	Sergio Rudin	With regard to the precedential value, as I've pointed out,
02:13:02.63	Sergio Rudin	earlier, the city should be applying its business license
02:13:07.83	Sergio Rudin	ordinances just the same way it applies to all of its other laws. You have to apply them fairly and equitably to people who are similarly situated.
02:13:15.52	Unknown	So to the extent that you are
02:13:18.38	Sergio Rudin	you know, making a determination with regards to KKMI, somebody who has a very similar classification of business, um,
02:13:27.67	Sergio Rudin	would likely argue that they should be treated the same.
02:13:32.21	Unknown	Um,
02:13:35.28	Unknown	Can I ask a follow-on to that?
02:13:38.15	Joan Cox	It doesn't the precedential value of
02:13:42.76	Joan Cox	the decision we make tonight somewhat depend on the findings upon which we rely in making the decision. If we make findings that say that, you know, KKMI was initially classified as class one, they were given no notice about the change to class three,
02:14:01.88	Joan Cox	They have routinely paid their taxes on time.
02:14:06.06	Joan Cox	and therefore were granting their appeal. That doesn't establish precedent for other
02:14:13.44	Unknown	businesses to necessarily seek
02:14:17.34	Unknown	a change in their classification. Would you agree?
02:14:20.48	Sergio Rudin	I agree that, again, the findings that you make matter. And to the extent you are going to make findings, I think that it would make sense to make findings based on the exact kinds of services and the exact kinds of activities that are performed by KKMI and how they relate to a particular category.
02:14:39.44	Unknown	Um,
02:14:40.02	Joan Cox	I'm urging against until such time as staff has an opportunity to re evaluate and recalibrate. Otherwise every similarly situated business that,
02:14:40.12	Unknown	I know.
02:14:51.04	Joan Cox	is in class three could come back and say they belong in class one. So I'm
02:14:55.95	Unknown	That's exactly what I'm urging against tonight.
02:14:59.22	Unknown	Tonight.
02:15:00.40	Joan Cox	Does that make sense? That does make sense, yes. Okay, thank you.
02:15:01.41	Unknown	that just...
02:15:01.67	Unknown	It doesn't make sense.
02:15:02.11	Unknown	Yeah.
02:15:02.44	Unknown	Okay.
02:15:03.66	Unknown	So are you suggesting that we simply grant the appeal?
02:15:07.10	Joan Cox	on the basis that, A, they were reclassified with no notice and no opportunity to...
02:15:14.07	Joan Cox	weigh in. B, they've always paid on time.
02:15:19.13	Unknown	you
02:15:19.71	Unknown	you know,
02:15:20.64	Unknown	Could I ask a question of my colleagues?
02:15:22.31	Joan Cox	And C, the city, was the one that classified them in Category 1 to begin with.
02:15:26.66	Jill Hoffman	But also with the direction to come back to us with further analysis on the categories that we have and another catch-all. Because one of the issues is the catch-all is the highest category.
02:15:34.93	Unknown	Yes.
02:15:37.36	Joan Cox	Maybe the catch-all should be one and not three, for example.
02:15:37.51	Unknown	Right.
02:15:39.62	Unknown	Right.
02:15:40.41	Unknown	Exactly. But let me just say it's if.
02:15:42.45	Jill Hoffman	We also have this minimum tax category as well. So to the point of if you don't earn a whole lot, if you're a handyman and you don't earn much or you're very low earner, there is the minimum category, annual tax category. So that's a category.
02:15:56.36	Jill Hoffman	in and of itself that doesn't really merit further discussion. But...
02:16:00.80	Jill Hoffman	So that's, like I said, a category in and of itself amongst all three categories. So, but there is, but we do need, I think, a specific catch-all category, perhaps at a higher rate, but not the highest rate. I mean, I think that's something that we're also struggling with.
02:16:18.13	Jill Hoffman	here, that we don't have an actual defined general
02:16:21.74	Unknown	catch-all category.
02:16:23.63	Joan Cox	So Ian hadn't finished his comments. I was just, and then you'll get to comment and then I'll get to comment for about 45 minutes.
02:16:23.65	Unknown	So-
02:16:29.79	Unknown	Okay, no, we've all...
02:16:31.81	Unknown	He was timed.
02:16:33.26	Steven Woodside	Let's we're all talking civilly about this issue, trying to sort it out. And it's a challenge.
02:16:40.10	Unknown	Um,
02:16:41.53	Unknown	Ian, did you want to continue for a moment?
02:16:43.71	Unknown	Thank you.
02:16:44.25	Ian Sobieski	I had a question for both of you about, and maybe the city attorney, about whether a possible outcome legally would be
02:16:50.98	Unknown	to
02:16:51.88	Ian Sobieski	find to not assess them any penalties or back taxes, but still find them in category, find the Marina businesses as current as the shipyard businesses as currently constituted to be in category three. And then to take up the matter of creating, modifying our business license tax to add,
02:17:09.23	Unknown	Thank you.
02:17:09.43	Unknown	both the shipyard category and take care of any other ambiguity.
02:17:12.92	Unknown	rather than opening the can of worms of
02:17:15.23	Unknown	establishing a precedent that could unwind
02:17:18.17	Unknown	and have unintended consequences in our
02:17:22.03	Unknown	and
02:17:22.73	Steven Woodside	I understand your point. My problem is I look at category three and I read it and it's not a catch all.
02:17:33.04	Steven Woodside	That's, and I don't necessarily need to say that that's the basis for our emotion.
02:17:38.57	Unknown	to grant the appeal, but it's out there.
02:17:42.20	Steven Woodside	It's out there. People can see how it's read, how it's how it reads.
02:17:47.62	Unknown	And
02:17:49.07	Unknown	There is no overall catch-all.
02:17:51.94	Steven Woodside	in the in the ordinance just a general catch-all which it's easy to say now and you're right it could open up a can of worms if we're not careful
02:18:00.95	Unknown	You're exactly right.
02:18:02.64	Unknown	But how do we say,
02:18:04.27	Unknown	that they should be in category three.
02:18:07.88	Unknown	the way it's written.
02:18:08.96	Unknown	Thank you.
02:18:09.22	Unknown	I can't do that.
02:18:10.94	Unknown	Thank you.
02:18:12.88	Steven Woodside	Maybe others can, and that's fine, but I'm not able to read it that way.
02:18:21.15	Unknown	Oh, Matilda was ahead of me. I mean, I don't know.
02:18:23.58	Unknown	Yeah, I'm sorry. Oh, go ahead.
02:18:24.30	Unknown	I'm not.
02:18:24.59	Unknown	you've got to.
02:18:24.81	Unknown	Thank you.
02:18:24.91	Unknown	with the
02:18:25.03	Unknown	Thank you.
02:18:25.08	Unknown	Thank you.
02:18:25.13	Jill Hoffman	Yeah, I'll go ahead. Yeah, as I read the categories, I think,
02:18:29.05	Unknown	for reasons that I...
02:18:30.48	Jill Hoffman	you know, can reiterate that this KK, it just fits more
02:18:36.88	Jill Hoffman	If it's, they're all awkward, if it's more awkwardly in category one, that it conducts retail, the sale of goods to ultimate consumers, you know, and it says, and you're usually in small quantities. Okay. I guess it's less than 70% under our staff report and looking at their profit and loss. It's less than, maybe less than their majority of their business, but it's still an integral part of their business. Like they do repairs and they do parts as part of their repairs. I mean, that's just what they do.
02:19:09.68	Unknown	Um,
02:19:10.51	Jill Hoffman	And manufacturing is also part of category one. They manufacture as they go. They do repairs and they're manufacturing as they go. That's just part of what they do.
02:19:20.75	Unknown	includes every person conducting or carrying on.
02:19:23.35	Jill Hoffman	on a business consisting of manufacturing, packing, or processing goods, whereas merchandising commodities at a fixed place within the city. That's their boatyard. That's the best definition of their boatyard. If it's much better,
02:19:34.22	Jill Hoffman	than the services under category three. And so I find that just as a finding that it fits better under category one than category three. I'm disappointed that HDL didn't have a meaningful discussion with KKMI when they asked for it, whatever the reason for the failure
02:19:50.50	Jill Hoffman	They should have had, you know, sat down with them and listened to them. And that didn't appear to happen. And that's disappointing that that didn't happen. This might have been cleared up at that point. I don't think that a decision tonight, as has been described by
02:20:04.41	Jill Hoffman	that we've kind of worked through in our resolution. I think that's fine for tonight. I don't think that is gonna,
02:20:12.24	Jill Hoffman	that's going to create a troubling precedent for us, but it also signals that we're looking to revisit this. And I think we talked about it before, and I've said it repeatedly,
02:20:23.56	Jill Hoffman	We might want to look at a special Marine category. We've got two special categories in our code right now that we carved out.
02:20:29.33	Unknown	Um,
02:20:30.09	Unknown	you know,
02:20:30.80	Jill Hoffman	proactively when we created this contractors, I mean, we gave contractors a special break from the jump. And I think that was probably a good idea because we wanted to support contractors and building in Sausalito.
02:20:40.74	Jill Hoffman	For whatever reason, we didn't do that for our marine industry and we probably want to do that. That's $2 per thousand gross receipts and we might want to do that for our marine businesses or we might want to leave them at $1 as is the general category under category one. I don't know, but that's what we want our staff to look at. So for tonight, I'm okay with.
02:21:01.66	Jill Hoffman	doing a motion for the original category that KKMI was in.
02:21:06.34	Unknown	Um, and, uh, and, um,
02:21:09.42	Jill Hoffman	and grant the appeal on the on the penalties and so I think that's a standalone resolution for tonight and to look at it further in the future.
02:21:21.03	Unknown	I was next.
02:21:22.15	Unknown	I haven't.
02:21:23.23	Unknown	Go ahead. Okay.
02:21:24.38	Melissa Blaustein	Sorry, I just first I just want to acknowledge that I know there was a lot of time and hard work from our new finance director and reviewing this and this is your first time working on an audit like this with regards to Sausalito city code which as you have probably come to understand can be somewhat complex, given the diversity of the type of businesses that we represent and and.
02:21:43.82	Melissa Blaustein	I think it's clear based on the feedback tonight how much we really do truly cherish our maritime businesses. And perhaps we do need, and I actually absolutely believe we do need a more specific tax code that allows our maritime businesses to thrive. And we should be working towards, if further businesses do come out of the woodwork as a result of this appeal, as much fairness for our business community as possible. So if that means that all of our maritime businesses want to fall under the same umbrella, then we should find a path forward where we can enable that. Because I think it's really critical that we continue to support them. With regards to the finding for why I think it still remains in category one, I think I sort of pushed this forward when I said,
02:22:25.02	Melissa Blaustein	Is there anything in the code specifically where it gives a percentage as it might relate to each of these items? For example, if it's more than 30% of services, then are we automatically going to category three? And since there is no clear classification for that, what I think is immediately obvious to me is,
02:22:40.75	Unknown	is that kkmi is a boat yard and they do
02:22:43.86	Melissa Blaustein	a significant amount of things like manufacturing and small quantities of creating retail goods and sales. So to me, it's just the most obvious and clear fit here
02:22:55.20	Melissa Blaustein	It doesn't mean our work is done in terms of what we're doing right or wrong.
02:22:59.26	Melissa Blaustein	for these categories in our tax code. The fact that this came forward as an example of that.
02:23:03.50	Melissa Blaustein	And I appreciate that HDL, again, is trying to do their job with a random audit. And again, I would say that our
02:23:09.34	Melissa Blaustein	Our community is complex in terms of the diversity of businesses and the functions in which they operate, and we are fortunate to have a working waterfront that continues to operate and a working waterfront
02:23:19.67	Melissa Blaustein	requires a more specific and perhaps different type of approach to our tax codes. So with that in mind, I'm going to
02:23:26.97	Unknown	grant the appeal and I appreciate the
02:23:30.28	Melissa Blaustein	um, considerations of, of council member Sobieski very much. And I respect your economic prowess very much and your concern for us to,
02:23:37.05	Melissa Blaustein	be generating revenue, because as we talk about on a regular basis, there are
02:23:40.46	Melissa Blaustein	There's a serious need for that for a variety of reasons, and I believe if we continue this conversation,
02:23:46.45	Melissa Blaustein	and think about what businesses best fit into each category, we will eventually...
02:23:50.60	Melissa Blaustein	eventually come out in the best possible fiscal position because this code, which passed before any of us, except I guess Councilmember Hoffman and Councilmember Cox were on the dais at the time, was created in order to create, in order to establish over $900,000 of additional tax revenue annually, while making processes more simple for businesses. What we consistently hear and learn is that there is more work to do in terms of supporting businesses and making things more simple and straightforward for them.
02:24:16.77	Melissa Blaustein	But I am happy to support the motion made by our mayor. And I agree with my colleagues here on the dais.
02:24:26.51	Unknown	Thank you.
02:24:27.66	Joan Cox	So I was on the planning commission when KKMI came to Sausalito and I was one of the members who voted.
02:24:35.79	Joan Cox	in favor of their application. Um, and there was concern because as, um,
02:24:43.06	Unknown	Uh,
02:24:43.77	Joan Cox	Babette mentioned Anderson's was indeed well loved. However, Anderson's was challenged with
02:24:54.00	Unknown	uh,
02:24:55.53	Unknown	Mmm.
02:24:57.95	Unknown	it.
02:24:58.28	Joan Cox	polluting the Bay, shall we say. And so we really looked forward to welcoming KKMI, who already had a successful business in Richmond, and indeed that
02:25:11.33	Joan Cox	expectation has been borne out. And so it's been a pleasure to see the work that they've done, including, you know, raising their pavement, building closures so that any work they do on boats has no chance of reaching the bay, even in times of great storm and wind.
02:25:30.09	Unknown	um,
02:25:31.34	Joan Cox	And so I also endorse the mayor's motion. I note that staff is correct. We did adopt the business license tax because we had not updated our business license tax in decades. And there was a need to bring the rates that we were charging more current with our neighbors. And we looked to see what did the county do? What did our neighboring city, Mill Valley, do? Thank you. the rates that we were charging more current with our neighbors. And we looked to see what did the county do? What did our neighboring city, Mill Valley, do? And we relied on some of that data assembled by our then Communities Development Director, Lily Whalen,
02:26:10.32	Unknown	to, um,
02:26:12.38	Joan Cox	categorize and identify what we hoped were appropriate rates. Oddly enough, this was on our agenda last year, on our future agenda items last year, was to revisit BLT. Because as Council Member Sobieski mentioned, this is an issue that has been raised by various businesses over time. And we have felt a need to recalibrate the manner in which we charge the taxes. I note that we did achieve our goal with respect to KKMI because they were paying a dollar per
02:26:46.06	Joan Cox	or $4 per $10,000 worth of revenue, I think the city attorney said, and we raised that to $1 per $1,000 of revenue. And so we did impose an increased rate upon them, even at the lowest rate within our chart.
02:27:07.16	Unknown	Um,
02:27:08.25	Joan Cox	But I do welcome the opportunity and I hope our direction tonight will be for staff to come back to us in having worked with HDL.
02:27:16.94	Joan Cox	And having taken into account our comments this evening,
02:27:20.17	Joan Cox	to propose to us how best to recalibrate the amounts that we charge certain of our service-providing businesses.
02:27:29.75	Unknown	Thank you.
02:27:31.85	Unknown	We prepared to vote.
02:27:35.20	Ian Sobieski	Uh, yeah, I mean, I am persuaded by, you know, I have a great deal of respect for my colleagues, especially the lawyers that.
02:27:41.92	Unknown	integrate all this and having read the
02:27:44.94	Ian Sobieski	the email that Sergio sent to us, um,
02:27:49.30	Ian Sobieski	So I'm inclined to vote yes also to provide unanimity mostly
02:27:54.54	Ian Sobieski	personally, just because I want to make sure that Paul and that team knows how much we appreciate them. They are a jewel in our waterfront and our waterfront industrial maritime, uh,
02:28:04.82	Ian Sobieski	Businesses need all the help that they can get. So if the proposal was to change the tax rate category for shipyards, I'd be voting yes on that. However, I'm voting with a great deal of trepidation because I'm worried about the
02:28:19.21	Ian Sobieski	even I am conflating my appreciation for KKMI and that kind of business with the unintended consequences of, of,
02:28:26.15	Ian Sobieski	doing it in this particular way. It does seem to me that staff has consistently put boatyards in category three from the inception. It's not a case of one boatyard being treated differently than another. And so we're at this...
02:28:39.31	Ian Sobieski	very late date, many years later, going to be changing the classifications for Boat Yards because we just discovered it.
02:28:46.79	Unknown	14 years after we started charging them in a particular way.
02:28:50.16	Unknown	And, and, uh,
02:28:52.09	Ian Sobieski	And that makes me uncomfortable about what's going to happen with the car repair yards and others that will say that we haven't been treated equitably either. So I have a lot of trepidation voting yes, but I'm going to, uh,
02:29:05.30	Ian Sobieski	to match because I'm influenced by my colleagues and to say thanks to KKMI.
02:29:12.18	Steven Woodside	Understood. I could say more, but it won't. Let's have a vote. Roll call.
02:29:18.23	Unknown	Thank you.
02:29:18.24	Unknown	Council member Cox?
02:29:20.37	Unknown	Yes.
02:29:20.76	Unknown	Thank you.
02:29:21.01	Unknown	Councillor Humphreys.
02:29:22.06	Unknown	Yes.
02:29:22.80	Unknown	Councilmember Sobie Esquigas.
02:29:24.60	Unknown	Vice Mayor Blaustein.
02:29:26.06	Unknown	Yes. And Mary Woodson.
02:29:27.58	Unknown	Yes.
02:29:30.09	Steven Woodside	Thank you. This did take a long time, but I know
02:29:34.04	Steven Woodside	It's a serious issue and we're not finished with the issue going forward. And thanks to all of you in the audience for waiting patiently through all of this. We have more business to take care of. I'm just going to ask my colleagues, does anyone need a break at this point?
02:29:37.23	Unknown	Yeah.
02:29:51.25	Unknown	Five minutes. Yeah.
02:29:52.31	Steven Woodside	So how about five minute break and then we'll come back and.
02:29:55.47	Unknown	We're coming back into session.
02:29:55.50	Unknown	We're coming back into session.
02:29:58.76	Unknown	And while we're doing so, I just announced that
02:29:59.23	John DeRay	While we're doing so, I just announced that
02:30:04.45	Unknown	Thank you.
02:30:05.63	Unknown	Okay.
02:30:06.12	Unknown	Thank you.
02:30:07.84	Unknown	Okay, I get to bang the gavel now.
02:30:11.42	Unknown	We're back in session.
02:30:11.57	Unknown	back in
02:30:13.07	Unknown	Um,
02:30:13.95	Unknown	We're going to take...
02:30:15.77	Steven Woodside	item 5B, but just for your own information,
02:30:17.00	Unknown	be, but just
02:30:20.88	Unknown	D.
02:30:22.28	Steven Woodside	we are going to table and not take up tonight. If you really must speak to that item,
02:30:27.72	Steven Woodside	When we get to 5D, we'll ask for public comment, but we will not be acting on that item tonight or hearing a full report.
02:30:35.23	Unknown	So five C, um,
02:30:38.03	Unknown	Mr. McGowan.
02:30:39.51	Kevin McGowan	Good evening, Mayor, members of City Council. I'm Kevin McGowan, Public Works Director for Sausalito.
02:30:44.86	Kevin McGowan	I think it's B this evening. Correct. Excellent. We have a little echo here tonight too. Someone has their mic.
02:30:45.03	Unknown	And...
02:30:49.05	Unknown	Correct.
02:30:58.75	Unknown	Maybe, so a little better.
02:31:01.35	Kevin McGowan	Just so everybody can hear. So yes, item 5B, it relates to the Coloma Street sidewalk project, and we have a presentation for you. In the audience this evening, I have Andrew Lee from Parametrics, who has joined us, who is a traffic engineer. We also have Chief Matt Barnes here from Southern Marin Fire, and that's going to be important in a minute when I kind of run through the presentation. So, per the request of one of the council members, we are returning to the council to report...
02:31:31.08	Kevin McGowan	with a report related to the Coloma Street sidewalk project.
02:31:35.66	Kevin McGowan	We had a public meeting last week on Thursday, the 26th. That meeting was well attended and very informative for staff and the consultant team.
02:31:46.03	Kevin McGowan	We also received a few emails correspondence regarding the project and I hope to cover some of those comments in the presentation. Now our staff report was written before we had that meeting last week. So we've got some updated information for you and I think I'll work my way through it in the presentation as well. So my recommendations in the staff report are going to change slightly.
02:32:10.20	Unknown	Next slide, please.
02:32:13.44	Kevin McGowan	Great. So first I'd like to update, do a little refresher on the Coloma Street project. The Coloma Street sidewalk improvement project includes the installation of a sidewalk along the north side of Coloma Street, as well as improvements at the end of ebb tide as it connects to the new village school site.
02:32:33.40	Kevin McGowan	We started this project with a safe routes to school grant and 2020 and the work
02:32:40.47	Kevin McGowan	to acquire that grant started long before that as well. So this is a
02:32:44.84	Kevin McGowan	long standing project with folks from Safe Routes to School helping us through this process to identify funding. Next slide, please.
02:32:54.97	Unknown	The work on Coloma Street
02:32:57.30	Kevin McGowan	is related is relatively simple with the installation of a sidewalk that connects the existing sidewalk from bridgeway on Olima from bridgeway to Olima.
02:33:08.75	Kevin McGowan	the sidewalk from MLK entrance to Ulima was added in the last few years based off requests from the community itself.
02:33:17.75	Kevin McGowan	The mid block, there is a mid block crossing proposed at the Tomala street pathway connection as well. Next slide.
02:33:27.39	Kevin McGowan	The project includes planters adjacent to the field, which can accommodate trees and shrubs,
02:33:34.62	Kevin McGowan	Based on comments received last week, our design team is including
02:33:39.40	Kevin McGowan	a long planter strip area that connects all of these together, those little squares in the exhibit on the screen.
02:33:47.57	Kevin McGowan	that can accommodate both trees and plants adjacent to the field. We are recommending a type of tree called crate myrtle trees in this area with additional shrubs to be selected in the future, probably with some assistance from Sausalito Beautiful.
02:34:05.29	Kevin McGowan	Signage and striping is also included as well. Next slide, please.
02:34:12.04	Kevin McGowan	The project includes a mid-block crossing at the end of the Tomala Street pathway, which is a dirt pathway. We also are trying to include a rectangular rapid flashing beacon, or two of them.
02:34:25.82	Kevin McGowan	Um, those, those are called RRFBs. It's just easier to say.
02:34:31.19	Unknown	Um,
02:34:32.45	Kevin McGowan	These are generally activated by a person crossing the street and they are solar powered. There's no electricity that you have to get a separate meter for them.
02:34:41.94	Unknown	Next slide.
02:34:44.40	Kevin McGowan	For this project, we also looked into alternative lighting for this crosswalk, such as in pavement lighting. I'll cover this a little bit later, but I just want to mention that we did look into this next slide.
02:34:57.65	Kevin McGowan	In addition to the work on Coloma, the project includes improvements at the end of Ebb Tide near the new village school entrance. Next slide please.
02:35:08.53	Kevin McGowan	The school approached the city regarding their concerns related to access. And as a result, the design and the implementation
02:35:16.19	Kevin McGowan	design was implemented to provide additional access from the north side of ebb tide towards the school. Now from these diagrams, that might be a little difficult to take a look at, but, um, the idea was to obviously improve the access for kids who are traveling in that direction anyway.
02:35:36.55	Kevin McGowan	This section of Ebb Tide is currently a cul-de-sac, and that plays into it when you take a look at possibly raising the crosswalks themselves. Additional striping, crosswalk improvements, accessibility improvements, and other items are included with this work.
02:35:54.77	Kevin McGowan	It is our understanding that the representatives from the New Village School have requested that the crosswalk...
02:36:00.98	Kevin McGowan	be raised. DPW doesn't have an objection to this. PD does not have an objection to this. And it's our understanding, since it is a cul-de-sac, that Southerman Fire also doesn't have an objection to this either, because there's no high speed traveling across it.
02:36:15.76	Unknown	Um, our,
02:36:17.11	Kevin McGowan	Our only concern would be to take a look at drainage to make sure things drain correctly. Is this ebtide or coloma?
02:36:22.90	Unknown	that you're referring to now, Director McGowan?
02:36:24.44	Unknown	I believe I'm talking about ebtite. This is ebtite.
02:36:29.38	Unknown	Next slide, please.
02:36:32.52	Kevin McGowan	Staff presented an item to the council in December, 2025. The budget is approximately 1.5 million for the project. And that budget hasn't changed at this point in time. Next slide, please.
02:36:47.93	Kevin McGowan	At the December 2025 meeting, the council directed staff to address several additional issues which related to this project. I'm going to run through these each one individually. Next slide, please.
02:37:03.18	Kevin McGowan	Bioretention is the first one on the list. Originally, we anticipated usually using a small planter strip along the edge of the roadway to incorporate the bioretention, which means filtering stormwater before it goes out to the bay.
02:37:18.05	Kevin McGowan	BKF, our engineer on this project,
02:37:21.24	Kevin McGowan	went through an exercise to review this to determine the size needed to treat the storm water in this area and found that a larger area would be needed than available.
02:37:33.47	Kevin McGowan	within the road with, sorry, let me back up. A larger area would be needed than what's available within the road right of
02:37:41.66	Unknown	If we were to install such a device,
02:37:44.56	Kevin McGowan	It would need to encroach into the MLK field area
02:37:47.85	Unknown	which is outside the scope of this project.
02:37:51.36	Kevin McGowan	Encroachment into the park may require compliance with ordinance 1128
02:37:56.22	Kevin McGowan	David Miller, Based on this criteria and the current budget which we would exceed if we had to do that staff is not recommending pursuing a buyer retention system in with this project.
02:38:07.97	Unknown	Next slide, please.
02:38:11.49	Kevin McGowan	At the December meeting, the council brought up some concerns related to the current maintenance and site distance at the corner of Lima and Coloma.
02:38:21.64	Kevin McGowan	Our maintenance staff has trimmed a lot of this vegetation. We removed some slats in the tennis court area and have improved the site distance here specifically. We had some complaints about this, which is always not surprising. But these plants will grow back. They are privets, and they'll grow back very quickly. So our staff will place this on an annual maintenance project and we'll get to this at least each year, if not sooner. So we'll keep an eye on it.
02:38:53.09	Unknown	The intersection of Olima
02:38:55.33	Unknown	has one stop sign.
02:38:57.26	Kevin McGowan	Based on council's direction, we have reached out to our traffic consultant to perform a warrant study.
02:39:03.55	Kevin McGowan	of the intersection determine if the other two legs of the intersection needs stop signs.
02:39:10.71	Kevin McGowan	In order to extubate this work, we anticipate
02:39:14.20	Kevin McGowan	that the warrant study to be completed within the next couple weeks
02:39:18.98	Kevin McGowan	And if that study suggests that a stop sign is needed, we can install that very quickly. We didn't want to couple it with a major project because we didn't want to delay the stop sign installation if it's warranted.
02:39:32.78	Unknown	Um...
02:39:34.45	Unknown	All right, next slide, please.
02:39:38.20	Kevin McGowan	All right, here we get into some interesting things. Members of the public have requested that
02:39:45.15	Kevin McGowan	that the new mid block crossing on Coloma
02:39:48.59	Unknown	be a raised crosswalk.
02:39:50.80	Unknown	This means that the crosswalk itself
02:39:53.22	Kevin McGowan	is about three to six inches higher than the roadway.
02:39:57.79	Kevin McGowan	There are advantages and disadvantages for installing such a device.
02:40:02.19	Kevin McGowan	Staff reached out to emergency services regarding this type of device.
02:40:06.70	Kevin McGowan	The police department has no objections to it. And since the preparation of this staff report,
02:40:12.88	Kevin McGowan	We've talked to Matt Barnes and Southern Marin Fire.
02:40:16.45	Kevin McGowan	who are willing to work with us on installing such a device in this location.
02:40:22.19	Unknown	However,
02:40:23.14	Unknown	Um,
02:40:23.84	Unknown	If we're going to install this,
02:40:26.02	Unknown	They can't have wheel lines in it. So,
02:40:29.45	Kevin McGowan	In different parts of Marin County, which I'm going to cover in a little bit,
02:40:33.04	Unknown	Um,
02:40:33.83	Kevin McGowan	Some speed humps have wheel lines in it so emergency services can get through it.
02:40:38.96	Kevin McGowan	We can't do that with a crosswalk by itself. So we'll need to work with our Southern Marine fire folks to try to address this.
02:40:47.98	Kevin McGowan	Um, there are some other issues associated with this and some of them I've included in the staff report as advantages and disadvantages.
02:40:55.32	Unknown	And we want to keep that in mind that
02:40:57.80	Kevin McGowan	When we put in a speed hump or something that's not expected, we could have cars that bought them out. We could have bicyclists that aren't anticipating them.
02:41:06.71	Unknown	Or we could have, um,
02:41:09.95	Kevin McGowan	I have a longer story, which I won't share with the council this evening, but you could, um, you could have as, as larger vehicles crossover and elevated platform, they tend to vibrate the surface. And when they do that, they could vibrate the,
02:41:25.18	Kevin McGowan	the adjacent buildings as well. And you have to keep that in mind.
02:41:30.08	Kevin McGowan	For this crossing, rectangular rapid flashing beacons are proposed, which, like I said before, which is a yellow activated flashing light.
02:41:40.46	Kevin McGowan	Some folks at that meeting last week didn't like these. And they said, no, we don't. We don't really want them because they're going to be flashing too much.
02:41:49.23	Kevin McGowan	We're going to have this, this is anticipated to be activated when the kids cross the street in the morning and the evening. That's not to say that they won't be activated at other times as well, especially when we're anticipating having more development in this area.
02:42:03.91	Kevin McGowan	And I think as you really recall, our planning director is looking into developing more areas for housing. And one of them is close to this site. So next slide, please.
02:42:16.64	Unknown	Trying to move fairly quickly here.
02:42:21.01	Kevin McGowan	And I'll just cover one more thing that I missed on the last slide, but that's all right.
02:42:27.45	Kevin McGowan	In pavement lighting is not necessarily a good deal. We've seen these in many years past areas in Marin County that tried utilizing these and they eventually took them out.
02:42:37.38	Unknown	because they
02:42:39.10	Kevin McGowan	they're susceptible to a lot of wear and tear. Changing the light bulbs on them is quite difficult by itself.
02:42:46.07	Kevin McGowan	And in addition, they need a dedicated electrical source. They can't be run by solar. So in this particular case, we would not suggest doing in-pavement lighting. It's just a maintenance issue for the city. And even 10 years down the line, when we...
02:43:00.58	Unknown	If.
02:43:01.44	Kevin McGowan	we resurface this roadway, they would have to be removed so that we resurface and then put them back in. So at this point we don't suggest using in-pavement lighting.
02:43:10.47	Unknown	Next slide, thank you.
02:43:12.86	Kevin McGowan	As noted in the staff report, City Council authorizes the installation of traffic control devices such as stop signs.
02:43:21.23	Kevin McGowan	The city's engineering division utilizes the California Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices, another lovely acronym called MUTCD.
02:43:32.45	Kevin McGowan	This is used to develop a standardized process that details whether a stop sign is warranted at a specific location.
02:43:41.11	Unknown	This guideline
02:43:43.04	Kevin McGowan	document, which is recognized statewide, provides criteria known as warrants that justify whether a stop sign or other traffic control device is needed on a street.
02:43:56.86	Kevin McGowan	This is a data-driven type of analysis.
02:44:00.23	Unknown	There are
02:44:01.26	Unknown	small
02:44:02.10	Kevin McGowan	All items that can be subjective, but generally it's all driven by data. How much traffic goes across, whether there's accidents here.
02:44:09.63	Unknown	That type of thing.
02:44:11.96	Kevin McGowan	The intent of utilizing the MUTCD
02:44:15.40	Kevin McGowan	is to provide the council with justification for the installation of a traffic control device.
02:44:20.72	Unknown	Thank you.
02:44:21.09	Kevin McGowan	that are standardized so that you're coming from out of town. You're not surprised by something different in Sausalito.
02:44:28.92	Kevin McGowan	The council can choose to direct staff to install a stop sign per the Municipal Code Chapter 1504050.
02:44:37.76	Unknown	However,
02:44:38.47	Unknown	citations or violations
02:44:40.97	Kevin McGowan	in this area may not be enforceable without a warrant study.
02:44:46.28	Unknown	So you want to keep that in mind.
02:44:47.97	Unknown	you
02:44:48.53	Unknown	Next slide, please.
02:44:51.60	Unknown	The MUTCD is a large manual.
02:44:55.21	Kevin McGowan	And the section noted here and shown on this slide on the top portion, I know I can't even read that, is a small part which just lists the warrants associated with stop devices.
02:45:08.41	Kevin McGowan	As noted here in the language stated in the Sausalito Municipal Code as well, you have the ability to say I want to put a stop sign in as well.
02:45:18.23	Unknown	That's in your code.
02:45:20.18	Kevin McGowan	During the public meeting last week, the design team noted
02:45:24.05	Kevin McGowan	The concerns associated with the raised crosswalk on Coloma as well. I think I've covered that already.
02:45:30.34	Unknown	Um,
02:45:31.56	Unknown	There are there are some alternatives, but
02:45:35.12	Kevin McGowan	We could put in some speed humps here before you get to that mid-block crossing, and that could accommodate a fire truck as far as wheel lines.
02:45:45.36	Kevin McGowan	So there are different alternatives to raising, to erase crosswalks.
02:45:50.78	Kevin McGowan	We have had a couple comments from the public, and I'm gonna cover that in a second too.
02:45:55.93	Unknown	Next slide, please.
02:45:59.12	Unknown	All right.
02:46:00.15	Unknown	Um,
02:46:01.11	Kevin McGowan	The meeting last week also brought up a few additional items. One of them being the planter strip, which I mentioned,
02:46:08.55	Unknown	that we can
02:46:09.86	Unknown	Um,
02:46:10.52	Kevin McGowan	basically put in all the trees that we need to as well as planting
02:46:14.15	Unknown	and make it a nicer looking area.
02:46:16.97	Unknown	Some of the members of the public
02:46:19.25	Kevin McGowan	want the adjacent fence next to the field itself replaced.
02:46:24.28	Kevin McGowan	So at MLK, that old fence is looking kind of
02:46:28.19	Unknown	old, so to speak.
02:46:30.42	Kevin McGowan	Some don't want a chain link fence, but in the meeting, they weren't specific on what type of fencing they wanted either. So,
02:46:38.00	Kevin McGowan	At this point, the fence itself wasn't in our scope. We can add it if you would like us to.
02:46:45.20	Kevin McGowan	some of the members of the public on that last meeting, they wanted speed humps or a raised crosswalk.
02:46:52.09	Unknown	And you may have had a couple of,
02:46:53.89	Kevin McGowan	emails from residents who had mentioned this.
02:46:58.25	Unknown	The new improvements will be
02:47:00.34	Unknown	will give the
02:47:01.99	Kevin McGowan	Excuse me, the new improvements on Coloma will give the perspective that the road is being narrowed because you're putting in a new sidewalk here.
02:47:10.30	Unknown	So you do have some traffic calming
02:47:13.45	Kevin McGowan	effects to this area with the current design, even without the speed humps or a raised crosswalk.
02:47:20.79	Kevin McGowan	The audience that evening, let's see. Oh, yeah. In the audience, we also have Andrew Lee from Parametrics, who could answer some technical questions associated with, let's say, a warden study or
02:47:32.91	Unknown	Even taking a look at
02:47:34.88	Unknown	the mid block crossing as well.
02:47:37.92	Unknown	So,
02:47:38.97	Unknown	you
02:47:39.42	Unknown	Um,
02:47:41.46	Kevin McGowan	The design team currently is finishing up the plan, specs, and estimate for the project, and we'd like to be able to move forward with getting this thing out to bid fairly soon. Obviously, our construction window is this summertime. We can definitely bring it back to the council as far as maybe a consent item for approval to get this out to bid. But the couple issues that we're facing have to do what I brought up a mid block crossing that is raised. Do we want that at this point in time? We'll have to work with our fire department to see if they can live with some device like that without wheel runs that run through them. And then if not,
02:48:21.08	Kevin McGowan	Does the Council want us to pursue speed humps in this area as well? To me, those are the two main questions. Well, the stop signs at Coloma and Olema will be pursued separately.
02:48:34.60	Kevin McGowan	And I think we're incorporating what the school wants over on the entrance to New Village School as well.
02:48:41.23	Kevin McGowan	So that concludes my presentation, and I welcome your questions and comments.
02:48:46.68	Steven Woodside	So questions of Mr. McGowan, I suggest that we be disciplined. We've got a lot of people in the audience who would like to be heard as well, but start off.
02:48:58.18	Unknown	Hi, Director McGowan. Thank you.
02:49:00.42	Ian Sobieski	Tonight, could the city council just direct staff to put a four-way stop at Lima? Yeah.
02:49:07.04	Unknown	Can the council do that? Yes, I believe so.
02:49:09.57	Ian Sobieski	We could just do that tonight. Skip the warrant bit. Just say, put stop signs there. That's within our authority.
02:49:14.36	Kevin McGowan	Yes, but as your city engineer, I would recommend you do a warrant study regardless so that you determine that this is needed or not. Why? Because from a legal perspective, you want to have that backup documentation for the city and for our police department if they enforce that.
02:49:34.81	Ian Sobieski	If we direct tonight to do the stop sign at a Lima, the four way stop sign and do the warrant study and the warrant study comes back
02:49:43.03	Unknown	In the negative, do we have to take the stop side down?
02:49:45.46	Kevin McGowan	I think we would need to discuss that with our traffic engineer at that point in time. Maybe Andrew can step up and answer that question for us.
02:49:58.54	Andrew Lee	Good evening, counsel Andrew Lee, senior traffic engineer with parametrics. I'm a licensed civil and traffic engineer, traffic operations engineer. Parametrics used to be Parisi transportation consulting. We've been working in Marin for 20 years. Personally, I've been here for 12 years. To respond to your question, the California manual on uniform traffic control devices, MUTCD,
02:50:20.53	Andrew Lee	dictates some hard standards, and then it's relatively soft in other more subjective areas. And with regard to
02:50:28.42	Andrew Lee	installing stop signs. It's actually relatively soft. It says that there's a lot of unique characteristics for an intersection and that
02:50:36.49	Andrew Lee	Engineering study has to be the determining factor for whether always stop control is the most appropriate treatment. So I want to highlight that while stop sign control is very familiar, most of us are aware of it and know of it.
02:50:53.21	Andrew Lee	The MUTCD has a much larger toolbox at our disposal, and it addresses elements such as improving the site distance by trimming the vegetation so that people are able to see oncoming traffic, such as what the public works department has already done.
02:51:12.22	Unknown	There's other alternative treatments such as
02:51:14.80	Andrew Lee	installing warning signs so that people have an expectation that they should stop or excuse me, slow down rather than making a full stop. So I want to just highlight that there's a large,
02:51:18.76	Unknown	Thank you.
02:51:18.78	Unknown	Thank you.
02:51:18.85	Unknown	that.
02:51:25.38	Unknown	toolbox at the city's disposal.
02:51:27.59	Ian Sobieski	Thank you. I know you're an expert. I know there are a lot of ways to achieve a goal, but my question was narrow whether the city council had the authority here tonight to direct that a four way stop sign be put there. I think the answer is yes. My question is if we then do a warrant study.
02:51:41.16	Ian Sobieski	If we have you do a study and you can't justify having a sign there based on your analysis, are we obliged to take that stop sign down or can we leave it there?
02:51:52.58	Andrew Lee	You know, I would invite the city attorneys to chime in, but I think that the city would be at legal risk if there is a collision because the engineering study provides a recommendation that...
02:52:09.49	Andrew Lee	runs contrary to what the city council has directed.
02:52:13.67	Unknown	Yeah, so I will comment on this.
02:52:16.80	Sergio Rudin	California Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices is basically adopted by regulations made by Caltrans.
02:52:25.35	Unknown	Um,
02:52:26.14	Sergio Rudin	the city must comply with the requirements in the California MUTCD.
02:52:31.71	Sergio Rudin	Fortunately, in this instance, the California MUTCD says that a warrants analysis is not substitute for engineering judgment.
02:52:40.42	Unknown	And so
02:52:41.91	Unknown	My recommendation is that
02:52:44.59	Unknown	the council,
02:52:46.38	Sergio Rudin	not erect a stop sign unless it's supported by either a warrants analysis called out for in the California MUTCD or supported by a traffic engineer's opinion that a stop sign is warranted in that location.
02:52:59.76	Unknown	based on their professional valuation.
02:53:02.44	Sergio Rudin	So either of those issues would address the risk management concerns that are being highlighted here.
02:53:07.94	Unknown	So you're saying city attorney that we shouldn't.
02:53:11.03	Ian Sobieski	direct to the stop side we put there absent a technical
02:53:16.28	Unknown	adjudication by an
02:53:18.86	Unknown	Either a current study or an engineering study.
02:53:19.06	Unknown	Either.
02:53:20.87	Unknown	But,
02:53:20.97	Steven Woodside	I think it's twofold. It's the warrant study or the judgment of a professional engineer, such as you, saying that a stop sign is appropriate.
02:53:31.10	Andrew Lee	That's correct. And the process would be that the engineer perform the analysis and based on the findings, offer our professional judgment as to whether it's appropriate.
02:53:42.76	Unknown	They are tied to each other.
02:53:44.38	Steven Woodside	And the legal risk, city attorney, is that if we don't have that, we don't have design immunity and other defenses in the event of an accident. Is that...
02:53:53.91	Sergio Rudin	I think you would potentially have design immunity. I would recommend the council or a...
02:53:59.77	Unknown	Uh, um,
02:54:01.83	Sergio Rudin	a city employee with delegated authority to prove the design, approve the design. So, but that would not necessarily...
02:54:08.39	Sergio Rudin	immunize you from other theories of a dangerous condition of public property claim. So again,
02:54:14.67	Sergio Rudin	I think having something in your pocket, whether it's the warrants analysis or a professional engineer's judgment that a traffic stop sign there is...
02:54:24.40	Sergio Rudin	warranted would certainly help the city in any sort of liability cases.
02:54:28.91	Unknown	But I think we have to use a little common sense here.
02:54:32.27	Joan Cox	Because we're now putting in stop signs where none exist to avoid having folks
02:54:41.18	Joan Cox	dashing down Olima Street and passing through an intersection that schoolchildren utilize and that the elderly utilize without stopping. And instead, we're putting a four-way stop sign there to force anybody coming from any direction to stop before they proceed. So I'm having a hard time discerning how we would increase our liability by requiring people
02:55:09.16	Joan Cox	rushing down the hill to stop at the foot of the hill before turning or proceeding.
02:55:15.84	Unknown	And so for me,
02:55:18.17	Joan Cox	especially because this is a route for schoolchildren. And so I don't understand how we could possibly be
02:55:24.87	Joan Cox	potentially increasing liability when what we're doing is helping the neighbors. We have neighbors up and down, and I live on Olima Street, who put out
02:55:35.75	Unknown	little
02:55:36.68	Unknown	uh,
02:55:37.57	Joan Cox	animated figures saying, slow down. And, you know, we have the police putting up a machine that tells you how fast you're going to urge you to slow down. So this is something that neighbors have been clamoring for, for years. And so to not take into account the colloquial and experiential evidence of the need for this, and instead to rely on some bureaucratic requirement that
02:56:10.63	Joan Cox	that the that could result in us not imposing an important safety
02:56:17.55	Joan Cox	requirement or safety device seems
02:56:21.95	Unknown	incongruous to me, would you agree?
02:56:26.16	Unknown	I was waiting for the question.
02:56:31.14	Unknown	So,
02:56:33.30	Andrew Lee	Let me try to offer a scenario where, well, for one, let me start with this. The California MUTCD specifically dictates as a hard standard that stop signs shall not be used as a traffic control device. Okay, so if that is indeed the intent,
02:56:49.23	Unknown	That is strictly prohibited by the manual.
02:56:52.60	Unknown	Number two is
02:56:54.39	Andrew Lee	why would always stop control actually increase your potential liability? That's a great question. And the reason behind that is for some,
02:57:02.81	Unknown	Traffic control signage relies on people
02:57:06.76	Unknown	respecting the traffic control device.
02:57:09.63	Andrew Lee	and the city having the authority to enforce the traffic control device.
02:57:14.54	Andrew Lee	And I would go with the first argument being the more important one, which is if
02:57:19.08	Andrew Lee	The city installs a traffic control device for which people
02:57:23.43	Andrew Lee	encountering the device, either do not expect it or do not respect it.
02:57:28.29	Andrew Lee	then the usefulness of that device goes down precipitously.
02:57:33.12	Andrew Lee	And that is not only a risk for the person encountering the device, but it's also
02:57:38.15	Unknown	of,
02:57:38.57	Andrew Lee	significant risk for the people relying on
02:57:42.55	Andrew Lee	intersecting traffic to respect the device. So the scenario is,
02:57:46.94	Unknown	We have.
02:57:48.22	Andrew Lee	a crossing, but it doesn't look very much like a crossing. It's overgrown, it's dark. There's no markings across the intersection, but nonetheless, it is a crossing for the community.
02:57:59.17	Unknown	And so people will be
02:58:01.00	Unknown	directed a stop sign,
02:58:03.34	Unknown	It's kind of hard to see. There's no advanced signage.
02:58:05.97	Unknown	But nonetheless, people are crossing well.
02:58:08.30	Unknown	People driving.
02:58:09.85	Unknown	Perhaps don't see the sign.
02:58:12.01	Unknown	Don't encounter enough traffic.
02:58:14.04	Unknown	during the day to think
02:58:15.73	Andrew Lee	Oh yes, this is a reason for me to stop. They, they go through the intersection. They'd make a full stop. There's nobody around.
02:58:21.73	Andrew Lee	They keep going. The next time they roll the stop. The next time they go a little bit faster.
02:58:26.22	Unknown	But when somebody who is walking
02:58:28.35	Unknown	older person, child person,
02:58:30.69	Unknown	thinking that oncoming traffic is going to respect the sign
02:58:33.75	Unknown	And these people,
02:58:35.56	Unknown	end up not respecting the sign, that creates
02:58:38.03	Unknown	potential liability.
02:58:39.35	Joan Cox	But again, you're not familiar with this intersection. This intersection, you're either, the only people going through the sign on Coloma would be people entering into a senior community
02:58:54.00	Joan Cox	Otherwise, you're going to be making a turn.
02:58:58.08	Joan Cox	And so it's, again, people coming down Olima are often turning onto Coloma. People coming up Coloma are...
02:59:06.77	Joan Cox	Very few of them are going straight, most of them returning, which requires them to slow.
02:59:12.07	Unknown	It's the people going through
02:59:14.62	Joan Cox	down Olima and then back up Olima. And Waze, our navigation system, frequently diverts people who are not accustomed to the neighborhood to avoid the...
02:59:26.30	Joan Cox	build up on Bridgeway and to use the parallel side streets. And so again,
02:59:33.05	Joan Cox	I would hope that if you were to go examine and survey this intersection, you could provide us an engineer's opinion that, given the utility of the system, given the usage of the system, that stop signs would be correct.
02:59:51.31	Unknown	helpful.
02:59:51.90	Andrew Lee	That is precisely the intent of the engineering study. And I have inspected this intersection.
02:59:57.64	Unknown	Do you think a stop sign is warranted?
02:59:59.51	Andrew Lee	I haven't conducted the full study. In fact, we collected traffic counts earlier this week. We are expecting that data shortly and we'll see how it all shakes out.
03:00:16.26	Unknown	Seeing no other questions from the dais.
03:00:18.54	Joan Cox	a question. Director McGowan, you have said that you want to treat the stop sign separately from the rest of the Coloma Street project so that you don't delay
03:00:26.27	Unknown	the rest of the Coloma Street project
03:00:28.85	Joan Cox	in making the decision about the stop sign, is that right?
03:00:32.13	Kevin McGowan	Yeah, I don't want to delay the installation of the stop signs.
03:00:35.22	Joan Cox	So will you, so may I ask that if the engineering study for some odd, non-common sense reason determines that stop signs are not needed, will you please bring it back to us so that we can weigh in? Absolutely. And if not,
03:00:53.20	Joan Cox	then we're good. You'll, you'll have our direction to install the stop signs. Correct.
03:00:57.66	Unknown	If that is your direction this evening, yes.
03:01:00.21	Unknown	Thank you.
03:01:01.07	Unknown	I just want to reiterate
03:01:02.72	Melissa Blaustein	I know you mentioned this in your presentation, but we did receive a lot of correspondence about the fence specifically.
03:01:08.38	Melissa Blaustein	Is it going to add any sort of significant cost if we just take the fence down
03:01:14.43	Kevin McGowan	We can, you get a ball field right next to it. So the, the foul balls off to the right-hand side.
03:01:20.93	Unknown	You might hit something.
03:01:21.99	Unknown	Yeah, you don't want their houses right across the street.
03:01:25.13	Unknown	Thank you.
03:01:25.17	Unknown	Ooh.
03:01:25.27	Unknown	Bye.
03:01:25.60	Melissa Blaustein	And then the other question we got or concern from a lot of neighbors and correspondents, and I know you heard this at the listening session,
03:01:32.10	Melissa Blaustein	was with regard to ensuring that we keep the streets clean during the construction and that there is some follow up
03:01:38.24	Melissa Blaustein	Um, from the, from the folks who are engaging in the construction that the waste is checked on a daily basis so that folks aren't driving home and encountering, um.
03:01:47.09	Unknown	Yeah.
03:01:49.08	Kevin McGowan	I think that has to do with the construction equipment that was stored there recently.
03:01:53.55	Melissa Blaustein	Okay. So you don't anticipate that being a concern as we engage in the process.
03:01:56.92	Unknown	You know,
03:01:58.07	Kevin McGowan	It's managing those contractors, so we'll do our best to manage them.
03:02:02.10	Unknown	Okay. Thank you.
03:02:04.82	Unknown	Another question?
03:02:09.46	Jill Hoffman	follow up on the fence as well. And my question on the fence was, and I think it was the same line, but
03:02:16.90	Jill Hoffman	The condition of the fence, there's nothing, the condition of the fence is fine. It's not damaged or anything. It's not leaning over. It's the condition. It's still upright at 90 degree angle.
03:02:27.55	Unknown	Mm-hmm.
03:02:27.81	Unknown	Right.
03:02:28.55	Unknown	As far as I know, yeah, there might be some that are
03:02:31.18	Unknown	undulating a little bit, but yeah.
03:02:32.09	Unknown	But yeah.
03:02:32.77	Jill Hoffman	But I'll principally it's so good, but I think your point was correct. It's right next to the ball field. It keeps the balls in the park and things like that.
03:02:41.25	Jill Hoffman	I think one of our planning commissioners wrote in and provided a piece of public comment about, and I think he-
03:02:49.86	Jill Hoffman	talked about the fence and maybe some beautification issues on the fence.
03:02:53.44	Jill Hoffman	And I know that there are certain ways that you can beautify fences with plantings and vines and growing vines and fences. And I was wondering,
03:03:01.57	Jill Hoffman	and maybe paint colors and things like that. I agree, chain link fence isn't a beautiful thing.
03:03:07.19	Jill Hoffman	It's not a way, but the utility of the fence and the height of the fence, I think is needed because it's right next to the park, right? And it keeps the balls inside the park to a certain extent. But I think there are ways that we can beautify the fence with different ways. And I would like to look at that in the least expensive ways that we can possibly do it. But
03:03:26.01	Jill Hoffman	I know that there are other communities that I've seen. I'm happy to weigh in on that to any extent that I can.
03:03:31.51	Jill Hoffman	I've seen it in other communities the way they've done it. And I know that we can do it. There's ways to do it.
03:03:35.88	Unknown	That's great input. We'll include it as a bid alternative then.
03:03:35.90	Unknown	That's correct.
03:03:38.66	Jill Hoffman	Yeah, or is it an incidental or something? I don't know. Thank you. Thank you, Kevin, for your help on this. I appreciate it.
03:03:49.28	Unknown	public comment. I have
03:03:53.51	Unknown	three cards and there may be others who wish to speak.
03:03:57.40	Unknown	Uh, first, uh, Mark Palmer.
03:04:04.94	Unknown	Good evening again.
03:04:06.14	Unknown	Mayor Woodside?
03:04:07.57	Unknown	Council members?
03:04:09.19	Unknown	Thank you for the opportunity to comment.
03:04:11.23	Mark Palmer	I'm glad to see there's some reconsideration of the buyer retention area.
03:04:16.21	Mark Palmer	The staff notes that the area cleans the storm water before it enters the bay.
03:04:22.24	Unknown	that the basin was considered unworkable
03:04:24.93	Mark Palmer	because it would exceed the available space and encroach it on the park.
03:04:29.63	Unknown	A planter strip has been proposed tonight.
03:04:32.83	Unknown	But I don't think that quite goes far enough.
03:04:35.89	Mark Palmer	A stormwater feature for the sidewalk project should be designed
03:04:39.55	Mark Palmer	treat runoff from Columbus Street's impervious service,
03:04:43.34	Mark Palmer	The preferred option is a linear stormwater tree trench system
03:04:47.46	Mark Palmer	It's a long narrow subsurface trench under the sidewalk of
03:04:51.11	Unknown	or planting strips.
03:04:52.80	Unknown	Street runoff enters through small curb openings.
03:04:55.68	Mark Palmer	filters through engineered soil and drains out only when needed.
03:04:59.97	Unknown	A treat for
03:05:00.93	Mark Palmer	French fits within four to six feet of width, avoiding any park encroachment.
03:05:05.33	Unknown	uh, provides full bioretention performance.
03:05:08.32	Unknown	supports healthier street trees,
03:05:10.61	Unknown	and is widely used in cities where space is limited.
03:05:14.26	Unknown	It delivers the storm water.
03:05:16.10	Unknown	quality and flooding control benefits that we want.
03:05:18.83	Unknown	but in a form factor that actually fits the
03:05:21.08	Unknown	Colima Corridor.
03:05:23.36	Mark Palmer	because the city will design and construct the sidewalk, curbs, and gutters,
03:05:27.02	Mark Palmer	The tree trench system can fit naturally into the same construction envelope.
03:05:31.66	Mark Palmer	I respectfully ask the council to direct staff to evaluate a tree trench system for Coloma Street runoff
03:05:37.50	Unknown	Thank you.
03:05:37.97	Mark Palmer	and request a revised concept layout showing how it avoids park encroachment while preserving bioretention benefits.
03:05:46.24	Mark Palmer	Sausalito should be a city that absorbs and cleans its stormwater
03:05:50.98	Mark Palmer	not one that sends its untreated runoff directly to the bay when modern solutions are available. Thank you.
03:05:58.19	Steven Woodside	Just briefly, Mr. Palmer, have you communicated this idea to the public works department?
03:06:06.00	Mark Palmer	Yes, I had a conversation with Mr. Davidson and we spoke directly about this process, yes.
03:06:14.45	Unknown	Okay.
03:06:14.57	Unknown	Okay.
03:06:14.81	Unknown	Thank you.
03:06:14.96	Unknown	And what was the response?
03:06:17.78	Unknown	Was there a response given to you at that time?
03:06:20.80	Unknown	Uh...
03:06:21.59	Unknown	only that it would be considered.
03:06:25.20	Unknown	Mr. McGowan.
03:06:27.53	Unknown	While we're on this point, I think it's an important one that we...
03:06:30.32	Unknown	here.
03:06:31.08	Unknown	Yeah, I do have Mr. Davidson is here this evening and
03:06:34.33	Kevin McGowan	It can be done. It's going to be more expensive to put in something like that.
03:06:39.17	Kevin McGowan	with the scupper holes underneath the sidewalk. We will investigate it and see if we can include it as well.
03:06:46.43	Unknown	Thank you.
03:06:46.94	Unknown	Can I ask a related question?
03:06:48.22	Ian Sobieski	Sure. It's you and Mr. Davidson. And do you have any landscape architecture help on some of these questions? The direction of some of the direction
03:06:57.79	Unknown	The directions of some of the directions?
03:06:58.92	Unknown	The direction of some of the directions.
03:07:01.20	Unknown	I said.
03:07:02.14	Ian Sobieski	Maybe, and I forgot how this, you know, what the structure of it is. I literally just don't know. Do you have a landscape architect that you can use the way, same way using parametrics for traffic that can help with some of these questions? It's.
03:07:15.79	Unknown	Oh, sorry, Andy. He's right behind me.
03:07:17.89	Andy Davidson	So our design team includes a landscape architect who has made the recommendations for the trees. So moving forward with a strip, whether it's a planting strip or it goes on with a stormwater pollution prevention system at the back of the sidewalk.
03:07:32.01	Andy Davidson	we would need planting recommendations from them.
03:07:35.33	Unknown	Who is that?
03:07:36.77	Unknown	I believe they're called Integra.
03:07:38.96	Ian Sobieski	But no, a little bit just about their scope of their assignment, because, you know, landscape is about more than just trees and plantings. It's kind of the whole cross-section, the whole project. Is that person's scope of work include that, or is it just the- Their scope was planting.
03:07:53.34	Ian Sobieski	So I guess that's the kind of question I just am wondering, because some of this feedback
03:07:56.85	Ian Sobieski	has to do with trade-offs and integration. And I'm just wondering if
03:08:01.69	Unknown	there's a,
03:08:02.66	Unknown	benefit perhaps of having
03:08:05.39	Ian Sobieski	a more holistic engagement with a landscape architect.
03:08:08.39	Unknown	Thank you.
03:08:09.96	Unknown	It's a great day.
03:08:10.03	Unknown	question.
03:08:11.16	Andy Davidson	If that's the direction we certainly can, that will increase their scope.
03:08:15.53	Unknown	Thank you.
03:08:17.69	Unknown	Oh.
03:08:19.60	Steven Woodside	Let's go on to the other public comments before we
03:08:23.24	Unknown	I'm sorry. No, no, you haven't messed up.
03:08:24.95	Unknown	No, no, you haven't messed up.
03:08:26.97	Unknown	Thank you.
03:08:27.02	Unknown	you
03:08:27.23	Unknown	Okay.
03:08:27.61	Steven Woodside	No, it's fine. But I think the suggestion is the retention system that's under the sidewalk
03:08:27.97	Unknown	Yeah.
03:08:36.31	Steven Woodside	that it be explored. We've heard from Director McGowan, it will be, and then,
03:08:41.75	Steven Woodside	You've asked the question about who else is engaged. That's fine. But I think we need to go on to other public comments at this point. Is that okay?
03:08:49.16	Unknown	Okay.
03:08:49.25	Unknown	Okay.
03:08:49.35	Unknown	Bye.
03:08:51.36	Unknown	Okay. Uh, Michelle McCullough.
03:08:54.63	Unknown	She had to leave.
03:08:56.64	Unknown	All right, Carolyn, you're up Carolyn Revell.
03:09:03.71	Carolyn Revell	Good evening, Mayor Woodside and members of the Council. Speaking as a longtime tree advocate and a member of the Sausalito Beautiful Board.
03:09:10.81	Carolyn Revell	We appreciate that this project is currently designed
03:09:13.94	Carolyn Revell	includes eight street trees along the proposed sidewalk as far as Tomales. The current design did indicate cutouts for the individual trees, but I was pleased that Director McGowan
03:09:25.90	Carolyn Revell	has taken the suggestion of having it be a continuous planting strip rather than just little cutouts better for
03:09:34.00	Carolyn Revell	more room for the roots to grow and not cause the sidewalk damage that we've been experiencing.
03:09:39.26	Unknown	and planting could occur in between.
03:09:43.00	Carolyn Revell	the trees in that planting strip, if the chain link fence is removed, it could perhaps be a buffer for the balls that might possibly.
03:09:50.76	Unknown	We'll end up there.
03:09:52.14	Carolyn Revell	We also endorse exploration of the tree trench as proposed for bioretention by Mark Palmer of the Sustainability Commission Chair, an intriguing idea that is definitely worth exploring.
03:10:03.26	Carolyn Revell	Again, regarding the current plan, the trees are only proposed for as far as Chamalus.
03:10:07.99	Carolyn Revell	It's unfortunate that the consultant doesn't include street trees for the portion further on. They say there's not
03:10:13.91	Carolyn Revell	not space, but if the sidewalk were, if the road were narrowed by just a foot at that end toward Ulima, there would be room, I believe, and that might help with the traffic calming to narrow.
03:10:27.85	Unknown	out the road.
03:10:29.18	Unknown	Um,
03:10:30.09	Carolyn Revell	If there is no planting of trees there, we're hoping that with the housing project
03:10:34.55	Carolyn Revell	that landscape would be included. Certainly at the workshop last weekend, people on the,
03:10:40.76	Unknown	Amenities Committee were very interested in landscaping.
03:10:43.61	Carolyn Revell	And finally, I really would like to express appreciation for the way in which Director McGowan and senior engineer, Andy Davidson, have included
03:10:53.23	Carolyn Revell	and allowed participation by the public very much appreciated. For example, we commented that ginkgo trees might not be
03:10:59.66	Carolyn Revell	good as a tree selection. And instead, I understand the crape myrtle idea has been adopted. Thank you very much.
03:11:05.92	Unknown	Thank you.
03:11:07.10	Unknown	Any other public comments?
03:11:09.29	Unknown	We have some online. We have Babette McDougall.
03:11:16.25	Babette McDougall	Well, good evening once again. Thank you very much for acknowledging me.
03:11:20.09	Babette McDougall	So I want to touch on some of these points that you all have been making because
03:11:24.38	Unknown	It really comes down to what our
03:11:26.74	Unknown	District three supervisor.
03:11:28.90	Unknown	came and spoke to us about about one year ago now,
03:11:31.89	Unknown	Placemaking.
03:11:33.32	Babette McDougall	So that's a T-shaped intersection, if memory serves, because I lived in that neighborhood for a long time.
03:11:38.84	Unknown	When I first came to South Salido,
03:11:42.01	Babette McDougall	I live currently at Girard at Litho where we have a five-star
03:11:46.76	Unknown	street intersection.
03:11:47.95	Babette McDougall	I had initially requested from Gordon Sweeney. That tells you how long ago I asked for a roundabout.
03:11:53.51	Unknown	for this area of five points.
03:11:55.75	Babette McDougall	And he thought it was a wonderful idea, but he never got around to it. And then he retired and he said,
03:12:00.58	Unknown	Well, I just want...
03:12:01.72	Babette McDougall	I want you to know that I never really filed any paperwork, but we're going to do stop signs. People ignore these stop signs. I would say 75, 80% of the time.
03:12:10.50	Babette McDougall	Now, they didn't start out that way, but they're like that now. So I can see the arguments on both sides here. The question is, fundamentally, what are we going to do about it?
03:12:18.82	Unknown	Because Joan Cox is correct.
03:12:21.18	Babette McDougall	People do just, you know, they're thinking about their own moment. And half the time they're distracted by devices or the, you know, state-of-the-art stuff in the vehicle. So, I mean, really, if children are going to be part of our community, then we have to take that seriously. I mean, we need to army up.
03:12:38.93	Babette McDougall	with crossing guards, for example, because placemaking does matter.
03:12:43.52	Unknown	And it matters more than ever.
03:12:45.55	Unknown	So I encourage you folks to think very carefully
03:12:49.06	Unknown	about making sure that the local voice is not just heard,
03:12:52.47	Babette McDougall	but implement it as part of the solution. These folks are the ones who know
03:12:56.72	Unknown	They live with it every day.
03:12:58.59	Unknown	Thank you so much.
03:13:00.31	Unknown	I hear back my...
03:13:03.37	Unknown	Okay, next we have Lorna Newlin.
03:13:11.13	Unknown	Unmute.
03:13:12.13	Lorna Newland	Hello again. And I do want to apologize. I haven't been able to hear absolutely everything due to Wi-Fi problems I constantly have. But...
03:13:24.85	Lorna Newland	One of the things earlier, I believe, Director McGowan said he did not want to delay
03:13:30.54	Unknown	the decision on the stop sign
03:13:33.07	Lorna Newland	due to wanting to get this project going.
03:13:37.25	Unknown	Well, I have lived in Whiskey Springs for 33 years.
03:13:40.38	Unknown	I have
03:13:42.20	Lorna Newland	Been a tenant at MLK for 20 years. I've crossed that street for, I go back and forth three to four times a day.
03:13:49.83	Lorna Newland	I haven't had a crosswalk. I am willing to wait to make sure
03:13:54.23	Lorna Newland	at this point, after so many years, to have it done
03:13:58.48	Unknown	Right.
03:13:59.39	Unknown	And, you know, I...
03:14:01.91	Lorna Newland	Prescribed to the same measure, measure twice, cut once. Let's get this whole project done correctly. And I understand all the problems with that. I have told all of the council, I can witness people
03:14:15.85	Lorna Newland	Coming up from Bridgeway all the way up Coloma, I can predict every person who's going to speed through the parking lot,
03:14:22.16	Lorna Newland	at at the MLK and I know that's not part of this but I went blue in the face going to police going to city prior city councils prior mayors about the speeding in the parking lot everybody exiting the parking lot there's a stop sign there and going on to Coloma and then speeding back down to Bridgeway so it's all important we all need a really wonderful crosswalk we need a
03:14:48.23	Lorna Newland	speed bumps and perhaps I, uh, perhaps even the, somebody should go to, I believe it's town center in Corte Madera, the speed bumps there. Oh my God, you have to go slow. So those should be in the parking lot, but on the street, we should have some kind of, if we can't have a crosswalk at the Tomales, uh, juncture where we're going to put, well, if we can't have a stop sign.
03:15:12.28	Unknown	then we should have some kind of speed bump
03:15:16.36	Unknown	All right, next speaker is Kieran Culligan.
03:15:22.67	Unknown	Hi there.
03:15:23.43	Karen Culligan	I just want to off the top express appreciation for this project.
03:15:27.80	Karen Culligan	It's been a long time coming. I was just searching my records.
03:15:31.31	Karen Culligan	First ask I saw for the Cross Rocket Coloma and Tomales is 2016.
03:15:36.37	Karen Culligan	Started getting picked up by PBAC in 2019, well before I was on it.
03:15:41.83	Karen Culligan	And just every meeting we have, actually, I'm excited because it feels like we're one step closer.
03:15:47.61	Unknown	to getting a safer environment for
03:15:50.33	Unknown	our children, and for all of us.
03:15:52.88	Karen Culligan	And I just in particular, I wanted to highlight the speed table crosswalk idea at Tomala, Tomalas and Coloma.
03:16:01.10	Karen Culligan	I was pretty concerned, honestly, with how it was portrayed
03:16:04.94	Karen Culligan	in the staff report, so I'm glad to see that there is some reconsideration. This is a bread and butter
03:16:10.63	Unknown	traffic coming.
03:16:12.10	Unknown	We're all right.
03:16:12.92	Karen Culligan	It's increasingly everywhere. It works great.
03:16:17.08	Karen Culligan	And it's not like a stop sign where people can just blow through it. They're going to learn their lesson real quick if they blow through it. You pour some concrete and you have something working for you 24 hours a day, seven days a week to slow people down. Not only that, it raises the pedestrians. It makes them more visible, especially if you have children. That makes a big difference.
03:16:35.33	Unknown	difference.
03:16:36.23	Karen Culligan	So I really hope that gets considered as part of the design
03:16:41.02	Karen Culligan	configuration here, I think it'd be a huge benefit. Coloma is not a primary arterial. It is not a secondary arterial. It's not a major collector. It's not a minor collector. It is a neighborhood street.
03:16:51.84	Unknown	connects to some other neighborhood streets.
03:16:53.76	Karen Culligan	It is that Coloma Crosswalk that we're talking about is a designated safe route to school.
03:16:59.05	Karen Culligan	and we'd love to see it done right. Similar to the previous speaker, I want it soon, but I also want it done right. And I think this is a great opportunity to do that. And I would love to hear city council's opinion on that as you are providing direction. Thank you.
03:17:14.96	Unknown	No further public comments?
03:17:16.22	Unknown	Thank you.
03:17:16.29	Steven Woodside	Anyone else in the audience? Okay, let's bring it back for discussion and direction. May I make a couple of suggestions? Can we deal with the stop sign issue first?
03:17:27.11	Unknown	Right.
03:17:28.83	Unknown	I'd like to move that we install a stop sign.
03:17:32.56	Unknown	Sehr kind.
03:17:34.70	Unknown	I'm going to make a counter motion.
03:17:36.69	Joan Cox	I move that we direct staff to undertake the engineering study and that if the engineering study for some unforeseen
03:17:47.88	Unknown	unpredictable reason
03:17:50.02	Joan Cox	determines that it is not appropriate to put stop signs there, that staff return to us so that we can
03:17:59.86	Joan Cox	direct the installation of a stop sign, but I
03:18:05.97	Joan Cox	And the rationale for my motion is that we have been told that we are better off to have that engineering study
03:18:13.23	Joan Cox	in place to support the enforceability and to prevent liability arising from the installation of the stop sign.
03:18:21.53	Unknown	Is there a second to that motion, alternate motion?
03:18:24.87	Unknown	Yeah, I'll second that. I think that's a good...
03:18:27.52	Unknown	Okay.
03:18:27.62	Unknown	OK.
03:18:28.38	Unknown	So I think...
03:18:28.43	Unknown	Thank you.
03:18:28.52	Unknown	Exactly.
03:18:28.89	Unknown	I think the vote goes on the second motion
03:18:30.96	Unknown	Yeah.
03:18:31.10	Steven Woodside	That's what I was about to say. That's my understanding of Rosenberg's rules of order.
03:18:36.50	Steven Woodside	So we will take that up. I'm going to make a comment about that. I'm willing to support the second motion.
03:18:43.94	Steven Woodside	But I want to add that I would strongly encourage the use of what
03:18:51.95	Steven Woodside	Remember Cox characterizes common sense when the engineer goes out to look at that area.
03:18:59.28	Steven Woodside	And I don't think it requires super analytics for an engineer who's familiar with these things to come to a conclusion that a stop sign is a stop sign.
03:19:11.01	Steven Woodside	would be warranted or additional stop signs would be warranted. Now, I'm not an engineer. I'm not prepared to say that that's the opinion that you will come up with, but I want to encourage that you take a serious look at it because clearly the people who live there understand that there's a risk.
03:19:29.00	Unknown	Thank you.
03:19:29.75	Unknown	and,
03:19:29.82	Unknown	and, um,
03:19:29.98	Ian Sobieski	And I think could I make a friendly amendment or request to see if it makes sense?
03:19:33.65	Ian Sobieski	If for some reason the stop sign wasn't warranted because of something, it sounds like it would be because of something about the built environment.
03:19:40.81	Unknown	because as he said, it would be about,
03:19:43.25	Ian Sobieski	not being expected for instance, or something about the sitescape or linescape. So in the event that somehow it's not warranted,
03:19:50.36	Unknown	It'd be a
03:19:51.61	Ian Sobieski	accompanied by a set of recommendations of changes we could make that would make it warranted.
03:19:56.33	Unknown	I accept the friendly amendment.
03:19:59.17	Steven Woodside	Okay. So the maker of the motion and the seconder accept that friendly amendment from their friendly colleague at the end. Okay. Okay.
03:20:08.57	Unknown	How about if we call the question?
03:20:10.10	Unknown	All right, great.
03:20:10.91	Unknown	you
03:20:10.95	Unknown	Thank you.
03:20:11.03	Unknown	Okay. All those, you want to call the roll?
03:20:13.44	Unknown	OK, Councilmember Cox.
03:20:13.55	Unknown	Okay.
03:20:15.18	Unknown	It's just here. Just.
03:20:16.62	Unknown	Thank you.
03:20:17.29	Joan Cox	Yeah, you can say all in favor. All in favor. Aye. So the second motion carries as amended. As amended. As amended.
03:20:19.55	Unknown	All in favor? Aye.
03:20:25.19	Unknown	Thank you.
03:20:25.24	Unknown	Thank you.
03:20:25.33	Walfred Solorzano	For the record, city attorney, you call it alternate motion or second motion?
03:20:31.35	Unknown	The amended, second amended.
03:20:33.34	Unknown	Thank you.
03:20:33.37	Joan Cox	I don't think that there's a mean alternate motion, alternate motion as amended. Yes.
03:20:33.48	Unknown	I don't think that there's a meaningful
03:20:41.25	Unknown	Okay. Now,
03:20:42.92	Unknown	the
03:20:43.03	Unknown	the
03:20:45.68	Sergio Rudin	Do we need to vote on the first motion unless it's withdrawn by the proponents?
03:20:49.64	Unknown	It's withdrawn.
03:20:50.98	Unknown	Oh, sorry, you, Bradford, I seconded it.
03:20:53.44	Unknown	Okay. It's been withdrawn.
03:20:59.26	Steven Woodside	So now, do we need to do anything more with respect to the
03:21:04.24	Unknown	bio-retention under the sidewalk.
03:21:07.21	Unknown	Thank you.
03:21:07.24	Unknown	Thank you.
03:21:07.38	Unknown	it.
03:21:07.50	Joan Cox	I would like to ask that the public works director include that as an ad alternate to the plans so that he can get pricing for it. And when he when they come back to us with the bid and the pricing, we can make a decision at that time whether we can afford it.
03:21:31.20	Unknown	Is that a motion?
03:21:32.15	Unknown	That's emotions.
03:21:32.71	Jill Hoffman	motion. This is a request that when that comes back, would you also include in the staff report the filtration that stormwater goes through currently without the bioretention as it goes to the bay? What, if any?
03:21:52.10	Unknown	Yes, she doesn't have anything.
03:21:53.33	Unknown	Okay, thanks.
03:21:54.22	Unknown	The answer is none.
03:21:55.49	Unknown	The answer is none.
03:21:56.53	Unknown	Okay, thank you.
03:21:56.91	Unknown	Did you want to second my motion? Sure.
03:21:58.83	Unknown	Thank you.
03:21:58.85	Ian Sobieski	Okay, so there's a motion. I had a question for you, because I've kind of lost track a little bit of the detail here. David Marlott, who sits on a planning commission, wrote a letter on this very project asking for it to come back to planning commission for some input. But are we past that point?
03:22:15.18	Unknown	That's my question.
03:22:15.23	Joan Cox	I hope so. You know, the public works director would like to get this out to bid and built before the rainy season. So I and it takes a minute to get back to the planning commission. So I would like us to be able to proceed. That's why I'm proposing having this as an alternate ad item so that.
03:22:35.51	Unknown	we can make a decision on it without delaying.
03:22:37.88	Unknown	that,
03:22:38.35	Unknown	it.
03:22:38.87	Ian Sobieski	So let me ask you also a question because the theme in his letter was, Hey, there's some landscape architecture expertise. I mean, he's a landscape architect or an architect. And it seemed to suggest to me without having spoken to him, that there might be some low hanging fruit within the scope of our budget and design
03:22:57.15	Ian Sobieski	that he at least might be able to contribute or others, I don't know. And so I'm wondering if there's a way for us not to miss the ball on that by asking the director to talk to Marlott.
03:23:05.57	Unknown	Yeah. We just direct Director McGowan.
03:23:07.26	Unknown	Mr. McGowan.
03:23:08.34	Unknown	to gather...
03:23:10.60	Joan Cox	Commissioner Marlott's feedback prior to releasing the invitation to bid.
03:23:18.02	Unknown	And I got a thumbs up.
03:23:19.69	Unknown	Thank you.
03:23:19.71	Unknown	Okay?
03:23:20.03	Unknown	Yeah.
03:23:20.08	Unknown	Yeah.
03:23:20.35	Unknown	There's a.
03:23:20.52	Unknown	Thanks.
03:23:21.06	Unknown	but not to engage any new
03:23:23.76	Jill Hoffman	We're not escape architects. Correct. Move forward. Continue to move forward.
03:23:23.88	Unknown	and I,
03:23:27.37	Unknown	The direction is and
03:23:29.45	Steven Woodside	Mr. McGowan has agreed to consult with our planning commissioner, who is an architect. I don't believe a landscape architect, but...
03:23:36.97	Joan Cox	Sorry, so to identify whether there is indeed any low hanging fruit that can be timely.
03:23:43.76	Joan Cox	uh incorporated into the invitation to bid
03:23:47.40	Steven Woodside	Okay, so that's the direction now we do have a motion in the second.
03:23:50.54	Unknown	Thank you.
03:23:50.56	Melissa Blaustein	Wait, sorry, I just want to clarify. So there's absolutely no way that we can just give direction now for a raised sidewalk.
03:23:56.57	Unknown	We're raised.
03:23:56.97	Unknown	Thank you.
03:23:57.02	Unknown	Thank you.
03:23:57.04	Joan Cox	The motion only concerns the bioretention system. Then we're going to take that up separately. The raised crosswalk is we're going to do.
03:23:57.06	Unknown	SAID FOR.
03:24:03.30	Unknown	And we're going to take
03:24:04.57	Unknown	Okay.
03:24:06.52	Unknown	No.
03:24:07.03	Unknown	Thank you.
03:24:07.06	Unknown	well,
03:24:07.18	Joan Cox	I thought it was bioretention and the race. No, it's only the bi, it's only in lieu of a bioretention pond, the linear tree trench system with engineered soil.
03:24:07.21	Unknown	out of a
03:24:08.63	Unknown	No.
03:24:09.05	Unknown	IT'S NOT A GOOD
03:24:09.14	Unknown	Okay.
03:24:17.46	Unknown	you
03:24:17.54	Unknown	.
03:24:17.56	Unknown	and I really like that.
03:24:17.66	Unknown	I request
03:24:17.96	Melissa Blaustein	that we consult with the sustainability commission as well on that project this came yeah but this suggestion yeah i don't know but this suggestion came from the chair no i i know i'm just saying can we continue the conversation with them and engage them in what we decided
03:24:22.55	Unknown	this gesture
03:24:23.28	Unknown	THE FACT THAT WE HAVE
03:24:23.48	Unknown	Yes, you can.
03:24:30.03	Joan Cox	to do moving forward. Agreed, so long as it doesn't delay the issuance of the invitation to bid.
03:24:34.55	Jill Hoffman	a bit. Listen, let me let's talk about this for a second. I don't think it should go back to the sustainability commission. They, they can, I think that they're doing a great job right now with marks here. I think they're watching this as it goes through. And I think we, and Andy's nodding his head back there and they're involved in this as it's going through, but I don't think it should go back through them. I don't think any, I don't want this slowed down and I don't want anything to go back. Yeah. And we don't want to
03:24:57.74	Unknown	Yeah.
03:24:58.97	Melissa Blaustein	slow it down. I'm just asking that perhaps they'd be involved in, in discussions with which product. And I think we're way past that.
03:25:05.23	Steven Woodside	Okay, well, let, let, I'm sorry about it. As with consulting with planning commissioner Marlott, I think it's appropriate that if there are individuals other than Mr. Palmer and others on the commission,
03:25:07.46	Unknown	as,
03:25:12.13	Unknown	that's...
03:25:12.45	Unknown	that's appropriate.
03:25:17.75	Unknown	that have the time to
03:25:20.10	Steven Woodside	offer some additional insight that would be helpful, of course.
03:25:23.71	Unknown	Yeah, I wasn't implying we should slow it down.
03:25:25.41	Unknown	We shouldn't send these back.
03:25:27.35	Unknown	No.
03:25:27.76	Unknown	to commission agendas.
03:25:28.23	Unknown	Commission.
03:25:30.27	Melissa Blaustein	I'm thinking that we give the same courtesy to the Sustainability Commission and Mr. Palmer as we are to the Planning Commission.
03:25:35.15	Unknown	Thank you.
03:25:36.50	Steven Woodside	Okay, now back to the motion. It's been seconded. Call the question.
03:25:41.97	Joan Cox	All in favor. Councilmember Cox? Just all in favor. All in favor.
03:25:42.98	Unknown	Councilmember Cox?
03:25:46.34	Unknown	Bye.
03:25:46.42	Unknown	Bye.
03:25:47.69	Unknown	Motion carries unanimously.
03:25:49.41	Steven Woodside	Okay, that carries unanimously. Now the raised sidewalk, which is the
03:25:55.11	Unknown	kind of the,
03:25:56.06	Unknown	Thank you.
03:25:56.09	Unknown	Thank you.
03:25:56.82	Unknown	Yes. Woohoo. Go ahead.
03:25:58.96	Unknown	Vice mayor.
03:25:59.05	Unknown	Oh.
03:25:59.85	Melissa Blaustein	I mean, I'd like to make a motion that we approve a raised sidewalk at both the, at Coloma, as well as, as suggested at the New Village School. Yeah, I'll second that.
03:26:09.59	Unknown	There are motion in the second discussion.
03:26:16.31	Unknown	a real crime.
03:26:17.03	Unknown	Joshua.
03:26:17.32	Unknown	I'm sorry.
03:26:17.34	Unknown	I'm sorry.
03:26:17.35	Unknown	on.
03:26:17.78	Unknown	Yeah, it's a crosswalk, not a crosswalk.
03:26:19.26	Unknown	Crosswalk, sorry, excuse me.
03:26:20.75	Unknown	It's a crisis.
03:26:22.16	Unknown	I don't know why that keeps coming up.
03:26:24.14	Unknown	Yeah.
03:26:24.22	Unknown	to the next day.
03:26:24.24	Unknown	It's...
03:26:24.68	Joan Cox	We hear from Captain Barnes about whether that creates an impediment for Southern Marine Flare.
03:26:29.57	Steven Woodside	Okay, I was gonna say before we've-
03:26:32.41	Unknown	Since he's here.
03:26:33.60	Unknown	Yes.
03:26:34.21	Unknown	All right.
03:26:34.33	Unknown	Thank you.
03:26:34.45	Steven Woodside	We know there's concern about a raised
03:26:34.87	Unknown	I'd be great.
03:26:38.30	Steven Woodside	If you can explain what the concern is directly, we'd love to hear it.
03:26:42.57	Unknown	Apologies, chief.
03:26:43.70	Unknown	That took
03:26:43.97	Unknown	Okay.
03:26:44.67	Unknown	Good evening, Deputy Chief Matt Barnes.
03:26:46.95	Matt Barnes	Um, there is no concern. We're working directly with the city staff and support the plan.
03:26:54.21	Unknown	Thank you.
03:26:56.71	Unknown	Sorry you had to wait all this time to say that.
03:27:01.21	Unknown	But we appreciate your being here.
03:27:03.03	Unknown	Yeah.
03:27:05.26	Unknown	Okay. Call the question.
03:27:08.60	Unknown	Sorry, call the question. All in favor?
03:27:11.34	Unknown	I...
03:27:11.64	Unknown	Bye.
03:27:11.98	Unknown	Thank you.
03:27:12.57	Unknown	All right, motion carries.
03:27:13.92	Unknown	Now, have we left anything out, Mr. McGowan? Okay.
03:27:18.42	Unknown	Okay, that is...
03:27:21.38	Joan Cox	That's 3B. Now we're on to 3C. Is that it? Got it. Great. Perfect.
03:27:25.01	Unknown	Thank you.
03:27:25.02	Unknown	Thank you.
03:27:25.06	Unknown	Thank you.
03:27:25.09	Unknown	Thank you.
03:27:25.31	Unknown	Okay.
03:27:25.53	Unknown	Thank you, Director McGowan.
03:27:28.53	Unknown	So now we are on the...
03:27:32.51	Unknown	Lot one project.
03:27:34.84	Unknown	Can we take a five-minute break?
03:27:35.81	Unknown	Thank you.
03:27:36.48	Steven Woodside	A request has been made to take a another short break, very short this time.
03:27:42.07	Unknown	Yeah.