| Time | Speaker | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:07.44 | Walfred Solorzano | Good afternoon, Mayor, members of the City Council. Tonight's City Council meeting of March 3, 2026 is being held at 420 Ditho Street, City Hall Council Chambers, It's also being broadcast live on cable TV channel 27. It's broadcast on our city's website and on Zoom. |
| 00:00:31.10 | Steven Woodside | I'll call this meeting to order and ask the clerk to call the roll. Councilmember Cox. |
| 00:00:36.82 | Walfred Solorzano | Thank you. |
| 00:00:36.84 | Jill Hoffman | here. |
| 00:00:37.04 | Walfred Solorzano | Right. Councilmember Hoffman |
| 00:00:38.67 | Jill Hoffman | Here. |
| 00:00:38.99 | Joan Cox | Thank you. |
| 00:00:39.57 | Walfred Solorzano | Councilmember Sobieski. Vice Mayor Blaustein. |
| 00:00:43.01 | Joan Cox | Thank you. |
| 00:00:43.05 | Michelle McCullough | Here. |
| 00:00:43.60 | Walfred Solorzano | And Mary, |
| 00:00:43.97 | Steven Woodside | Here. First item of business is a closed session. Items C1 through C4 as listed on the posted agenda. We will go into closed session and then come out promptly before 5 p.m. to start the regular business meeting. In the meantime, are there any public comments on closed session items? Very well, we'll now adjourn to closed session. |
| 00:01:14.97 | Jacques Ullmann | Thank you. |
| 00:01:17.13 | Steven Woodside | Thank you all for being patient. And I think we can get started. Mr. Clerk? |
| 00:01:21.22 | Walfred Solorzano | Thank you. Okay. Okay, tonight's regular meeting is being held at 420 Litho Street, City Council Chambers. It's also being broadcast on Zoom. It's being broadcast on the city's website and on cable TV channel 27, and we now reconvene to open sessions. |
| 00:01:42.14 | Steven Woodside | Very well, I'll call this business meeting to order. And first we'll have the Pledge of Allegiance. |
| 00:01:50.16 | Unknown | Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all. |
| 00:01:57.38 | Unknown | Bye bye. |
| 00:02:01.11 | Natalie Butts | and justice. |
| 00:02:06.61 | Unknown | 10. |
| 00:02:06.97 | Walfred Solorzano | We'll, |
| 00:02:07.42 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:02:07.56 | Walfred Solorzano | Call the roll. |
| 00:02:08.20 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. |
| 00:02:08.37 | Walfred Solorzano | Yeah. |
| 00:02:08.42 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. |
| 00:02:08.45 | Walfred Solorzano | Thank you. Councilmember Cox. Thank you. |
| 00:02:10.53 | Joan Cox | here. |
| 00:02:11.13 | Walfred Solorzano | That's where Hoffman. She will return. |
| 00:02:15.94 | Steven Woodside | She will be returning in a few minutes. |
| 00:02:18.00 | Walfred Solorzano | Okay, sounds good. Council member Sobieski. Weissmere Blaustein? |
| 00:02:22.93 | Steven Woodside | Mary Wood Tech. I am here. And we just returned from, uh, resumed this meeting from a closed session. There was nothing to report out regarding. being the matters that we discussed in closed session. We did discuss all four matters that were on the printed agenda. we do have A couple of kind of special presentations a little bit off off agenda, but it's important because this is Women's History Month and I'm going to ask the vice mayor to make an introduction. |
| 00:02:54.37 | Melissa Blaustein | Great. Thank you very much, Mayor Woodside. We are very lucky to have with us in Sausalito many incredible artists, but one of them, Tiffany Schlain, is a renowned feminist who has done a lot of significant work, both in material art and film, supporting women and women's rights across the country. In fact, her feminist tree ring was displayed on the National Mall in Washington, D.C., And she currently has a show at the DeRosa Museum in San Francisco, where this Saturday, she will be celebrating and honoring International Women's Day with Speaker Nancy Pelosi. So Tiffany is a revered member of our community here in Sausalito with a studio in town and also a well-known author and feminist. So I'm honored to have her with us to say a few words on Women's History Month. Please come forward. |
| 00:03:44.45 | Unknown | First of all, thank you. I'm so happy to be here with all of you. I wish I found the image of me going to Sausalito preschool, which is where I went to school. I'm a native through and through. I went to Sausalito preschool, then Mill Valley Middle School. And then I went to Redwood, and then I went to UC Berkeley. So I'm a product of the fine public schools in the Bay Area. And I have a studio in South Africa. I said, Melissa is one of my best friends, so I'm very happy to be very happy to be here. What a perfect way to launch. National Women's History Month. I'm going to just speak for about five or seven minutes about my work. And, um, The opening image is I grew up right near Mere Woods and my family was really our sanctuary. And I spent a lot of time amongst the oldest trees in the world, which had a great influence on my work today. I then... And I founded the Webby Awards. I don't know if this is delaying. I spent about a decade running the highest honor for the web. Then I sold the Webby Awards to go back to filmmaking. I made a lot of films that explored ideas around technology and nature. And and and I make a lot of films about neuroscience and My family and I, one day a week, we turn off all screens from technology and ended up writing a book about it. And I spent a lot of time back in Muir Woods and in the trees. So. around right during COVID, I was walking amongst Muir Woods where I had grown up, and you know the tree ring at the entrance of Muir Woods, which is so magnificent. And I remember looking at here, I've spent my life making films about feminist issues and women's rights and reproductive rights, and I have two daughters, my husband and I have two daughters, And I looked at that tree ring and I thought, there's not one woman on that tree ring. And it just hit me like a bolt of lightning that I needed to create a feminist history tree ring. I wanted to see that. I wanted my daughters to see that. And what a different way to look at history through a feminist lens. So I started making art, and then when I decided to take on this making a tree ring, I had never done that before, but I found the biggest tree ring that I could find at a salvage lumber yard. And, um, I spent a lot of time sanding it. I distilled all of my movies that I've made over the years on feminist history, distilled all the salient points. And it's 50,000 years of history And I should also mention my father, the late Dr. Leonard Schlein, was not only a surgeon in the Bay Area, but he wrote a lot about feminist history and also goddess culture. So the very first fact on this tree ring is a fact that almost every ancient civilization worshipped goddesses 50,000 years ago, and that's a much better place to start the story. Because where you start, feminist history matters. So if you start that we worship goddesses is it is a fantastic way to look at history. But of course it has 32 points. My hand burned all the words on with pyrographers, and this is dendrofeminology. a feminist history tree ring. Like I mentioned, I distill both coming as being worshiped as goddesses to the witch burnings, Thank you. to all the trials and tribulations that women have suffered. But I do like to remind people that the founding of our country, women had the right to reproductive rights up until four months. We have had leadership back and forth all throughout history. And of course, I end it with today as an invitation for people to step up and think about what we do today matters. It was on the National Mall. And we did a lot of activations around that. We invited people, so it's going a little Um, We invited a lot of feminist organizations to come together in Washington, D.C. We did an Equal Rights Amendment rally, and we had a Shabbat on the National Mall, which was really beautiful. And and then we also invited people to ask them, what milestone do you want to see next on the Feminist History Training? So it was a very interactive art installation on the National Mall. And then after that, we took it to Madison Square Park in New York City. We had the cast from Sufts, which is a fantastic musical, and we all were white. in honor of the suffrage movement. And then we've taken it all across the country. It was most recently in St. Louis, Missouri. We always use bringing the feminist history treating as a way to bring together leaders locally that want to expand and protect women's rights. This is a shot from St. Louis in the fall. And of course, and then here's my husband, Kenny's a professor at UC Berkeley. And we have an art show that Melissa mentioned in San Francisco at DeRosa SF. It started in L.A. as part of the Getty Pacific Standard Time show, and it was very inspired from mere woods and the magnificent trees in Sausalito and the Bay Area. And we both reimagined all the different kinds of timelines that could be told. We have a tree of knowledge. We have a history of science through mathematical equations and, um, And we have a Jewish history. We also, this seems very relevant, look at tree inequities in different neighborhoods. And we're, this is Ken, that's in San Francisco. Don't want to skip past my husband. Now we're at DeRosa. DeRosa has the foremost collection of Northern California art in the world, and we're very honored to be at their new museum location in San Francisco. And we are doing a very big event this Saturday. And it's really exciting. This tree ring was made in the Bay Area. It's traveled all the way around the country. Now it's back home in my hometown. We have an incredible lineup. We have Speaker Pelosi. We have the CEO of the ERA Coalition Planned Parenthood. She the People. So many incredible organizations. And it's free and open to the public. We just announced Speaker Pelosi today, so we're going to get full really quickly. But if any of you want to RSVP, please do. And this is where you RSVP at letitripple.org. It's going to be an inspiring afternoon of hearing ways we can protect and expand women's rights. We also have a lot of other events coming up, and you can go to ancientwisdom.art. The show is up until April. And there's a lot of joy at these events in these very Intense times so I'm very happy to present my work here. You can stay posted on the art or my work By going to my website or my newsletter and thank you and it's women's history month It's a beautiful month to celebrate all of women's achievements and to continue pushing for more women's rights in Our beautiful town of Sausalito and definitely around the world because we are a shining light example for women's rights around the world. Thank you |
| 00:10:20.15 | Angeline Loeffler | Yeah. Thank you, Tiffany. Bye. |
| 00:10:25.40 | Steven Woodside | Well, it's a great start for celebrating in our community, and we will continue to do so. And some of these events around that will celebrate women's history. We have significant events. members of our community past and present who are doing amazing things and we want to make sure that the public is aware of them so. All right. Thank you very much. We now have |
| 00:10:54.93 | Unknown | I think, Mr. City Manager, we have a follow-on report Yes, from the Small Business Administration. Do you want to kick it off? She's sitting up there, Mayor. Okay, very well. |
| 00:11:06.59 | Natalie Butts | Thank you so much. And thank you for allowing me to speak tonight. My name is Natalie Butts, and I'm a public affairs specialist with the Small Business Administration's Office of Disaster Recovery and Resilience. So SBA's ODR&R office is here in the community helping survivors recover in the aftermath of the tidal flooding and king tides that occurred between December 31st through January 5th and damaged a significant number of local homes and businesses. Our mission is to help communities prepare for, respond to, recover from, and mitigate against disasters of all types. And we assist in the economic recovery of communities after disasters by providing long-term low-interest loans to businesses, nonprofits, homeowners, and renters. I know my colleague Yolanda Farrins was here two weeks ago presenting about our emergency disaster declaration, which covers the counties of Humboldt, Marin, Contra Costa, Del Norte, Mendocino, San Francisco, Siscaiu, Sonoma, and Trinity. I'm here tonight to remind the council about the upcoming deadlines for the disaster loan program and the disaster loan outreach centers that are still open. The application deadline for physical damages is fast approaching on Monday, April 6th. However, the deadline to apply for economic injury disaster loans is not until November 3rd of 2026. And there are three ways to apply for an SBA disaster loan. The first is by applying online at lending.sba.gov or by email at disastercustomerservice at sba.gov. A second way is by calling the SBA directly at 800-659-2955. But the third way to apply and what I would recommend as the best way is by going to one of the three disaster loan outreach centers that are currently in operation within Humboldt and Marin County. Their customer service representatives are available to help answer questions about our disaster loan program. explain the application process, and help individuals complete their application. And this in-person, individualized attention is often the best way to complete an application. There's a disaster loan outreach center located at 5845 Humboldt Hill Road in Eureka. It's open Monday through Friday, 9 a.m. to 6 p.m. Another disaster loan outreach center is located at Madeira Town Hall at 300 Tamalpais Drive in Kortam Madeira. And it's open Monday and Tuesday from 1030 a.m. to 6 p.m. and Wednesday through Friday from 1030 a.m. to 7 p.m. And the third is at Stinson Beach Community Church at 32 Belvedere Avenue. And that's open Monday to Friday from 1030 a.m. to 7 p.m. Thank you once again to the city council for allowing me to present tonight. I wish those in this community who were impacted by the disaster all the best as they work to recover. And I left flyers and fact sheets about the disaster loan program and this disaster declaration on the table in the back of the chamber. If there are any declaration, any questions about the. this declaration I can be reached at Natalie dot butts at SBA dot gov or by text or phone at nine one six eight six six two one four three. Thank you. |
| 00:14:44.42 | Steven Woodside | Thank you very much. That's helpful information. Mr. City Manager, anything to add? |
| 00:14:49.38 | Chris Zapata | I do. You want me to get into my report? Because it's a segue from what you just spoke about, Mayor, if I can. |
| 00:14:54.30 | Steven Woodside | Sure. |
| 00:14:54.52 | Sergio Rudin | Thank you. |
| 00:14:54.54 | Chris Zapata | Wonderful. So king tides are going to be upon us again next month. We know that. We've learned some lessons. We're getting better at it. handling the ones that are not extreme. And one of the things that we're doing is there's a survey that's going to go out to Gate 5 Road property owners and the community in general. It's about 15 questions that we're trying to gather data so that we can be more responsive. So Gate 5 Road obviously is a challenge for our community, has been, will be. You know, we're still working with our Economic Development Administration grant. You may recollect that the feds gave us $600,000 to do a technical study. That's ongoing, and that should be wrapping up beginning this fall. I'd like to talk a little bit about safety that's on the agenda so that we don't miss these points. It's important that you note that the consent calendar has a safety related item, and that is obviously the $750,000 request for construction money at Spencer Firehouse to reactivate it. Chief Barnes is with us today. He has been instrumental in working with his team at the district. The district board has been supportive. I thank Council Member Cox for her role in being a liaison to the group so that we can keep this project going. This is a consent item. We don't believe there's controversy involved in it. So as you know, your agenda setting committee, we put it on consent. And then also another safety related item that is important is the Coloma Street item, which you'll have under business. And that concludes my report. |
| 00:16:30.85 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. |
| 00:16:30.86 | Chris Zapata | And. |
| 00:16:30.95 | Steven Woodside | Thank you very much. |
| 00:16:31.91 | Joan Cox | Thank you. |
| 00:16:32.82 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. |
| 00:16:32.84 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:16:32.86 | Joan Cox | Yes. |
| 00:16:33.01 | Chris Zapata | Thank you. |
| 00:16:33.02 | Joan Cox | Yes. |
| 00:16:33.26 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:16:33.29 | Andrew Lee | Can I ask the city manager a question? |
| 00:16:34.93 | Joan Cox | You sure may. Thank you. city manager i had a question for you uh and i could have directed to director meg owen too on the consent item so tell me which it is but you said the item is 700 000 for the spencer fire street station 750 000 750 and in the staff report the final bill was that included other items added up to 860. So I was just wondering if that is all an estimate, if cause some of those items, uh, uh, it wasn't clear to me. So I wanted to ask that question for clarity. Is it going to be 700 or is it going to be 860? |
| 00:17:10.77 | Chris Zapata | Let me let me let me thank you for pointing that out council member Because if we're gonna get into real numbers and the commitment by the city council and staff to Safety in that part of the world in respect to that station. We're north of a million dollars You've allocated three hundred thousand dollars for the records retention program. That's there yet another eight hundred thousand dollars You're talking over a million dollars in city funds to activate that so that the fire district can partner with us and make the city safer from all these threats that we know are here |
| 00:17:11.03 | Joan Cox | at the end. |
| 00:17:42.31 | Steven Woodside | Does that answer your question? |
| 00:17:43.51 | Joan Cox | I guess I was just We're going to have to come back and authorize some... I just was wondering what the expectation is. Is it 860 or is it 700 more or... What is it? |
| 00:17:55.19 | Kevin McGowan | I would expect $860 for a total budget in the project, and that's what shows on the staff report. The 750 was an original estimate for the construction plus contingency. And I have that a little bit off in the staff report. It says 735 for those two items. So a little bit of a math glitch there. |
| 00:18:14.46 | Joan Cox | Okay. I just wanted to clarify what the amount was. Thank you very much. |
| 00:18:17.33 | Steven Woodside | Okay. |
| 00:18:17.63 | Joan Cox | Thank you. |
| 00:18:18.27 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:18:18.29 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. Thank you, Mr. City Manager. We do also have another special presentation that in part was inspired by an event that I believe several council members attended, celebrating the emperor of Japan's birthday. Um, That may sound a little bit far afield from what goes on in Sausalito, but Jill, would you like to Um, make this presentation. |
| 00:18:45.71 | Jill Hoffman | Yes, and I have the Oprah microphone, oddly, at my desk. And so I sent Walford some pictures. Do you have them, Walford? Yeah. So we last week on Thursday, I think it was, we attended the Emperor's Birthday Party at the Nico Hotel. in San Francisco. And it was myself, I'm the council liaison to the Sister City program. South Dakota has three sister cities, which is an abundance of sister cities. And so myself, the vice mayor, Blaustein and Councilmember Cox were able to go and attend that. And also, and so I think maybe Walford's going to be able to bring up the picture of us. Thank you. what the, Yes, and Harrison... Harrison Chapman, who's here, give us a wave. Harrison, come up if you want to come up. um, was with us, uh, with the council general Harrison's also the chair of our, um, of our Sister City program for just Sakaide, for Sakaide Japan. So he runs our Sister City program and we were lucky enough to have him with us. And last October, for the first time ever, there was a leadership meeting kind of traveling show across Japan of 20 cities, um, with the U S Japan Leadership Council. Um, and I was lucky enough to go because of our mayor, um, mayor Cox was not able to go. And so even though Sakai day wasn't included in that, it was a three city tour of Osaka, uh, Yamanashi prefecture. And we ended up in Tokyo at the, um, at the UN University in Tokyo. But I included Sakai Day, a stop in Sakai Day first, and Harrison was instrumental in linking me for a 12 hour visit to Sakai day overnight, we met for dinner and then the next day, And I have a picture of us, of me with, um, the, uh, with the mayor of Sakai Day, mayor Ari Fuku and, um, and the council liaison there. or sorry, the chair of the city council there. And, I have a presentation of a gift from the mayor to our mayors here in or the city actually of Sausoleo. So this is a beautiful wind chime from Sikai Day. And so this was a great, and we had our annual meeting of our Sister City program this past on Saturday, February 21st. So I'm going to set down my microphone and I was wondering if Harrison could help me present it to our mayor and maybe our former mayor, Joan Cox, and And I have a picture, if I could share my screen, I could put the picture of us in Sikai Day. Um, Maybe one law firm comes back, but there's a picture of us in society in the Council chambers, but also there's a picture of us outside the city chambers. or the city hall, the beautiful city hall in Sakaide in front of a willow tree. And that's the willow tree that Sausalito donated to Sakaide Japan, which I think you're going to see later this month, Mayor Woodside, when you go to Japan, I think you're going through Sakaide, right? So we're doing the first ever adult trip to Sakaide. Sakaide is an exchange for students, for high school students, right? Oh, there it is. So there's us in front of, with my... with my consort and husband Steve and the mayor of the mayor of Sikaide and the vice mayor who's on the other end and then the chair of the city council in Sikaide in front of the willow tree that was planted from Sausalito and then there's another picture if we have it of us inside the council chambers exchanging gifts that we had brought from Sausalito for this there we are That's us inside the council chambers exchanging gifts that we had brought from sausalito for um this there we are that's us inside the council chambers in sakaida and so it was a beautiful 12 hours and sakaida i wish i had been able to stay longer but um let me hand the |
| 00:22:47.45 | Babette McDougall | at Elson. |
| 00:22:51.61 | Babette McDougall | and then we get from the picture, |
| 00:23:01.22 | Natalie Butts | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:23:04.62 | Unknown | Thank you. but it's named Thank you. |
| 00:23:18.78 | Unknown | So the mineral of this wind chime is called Sanukite, and it was discovered in Sanuki prefecture, which is the old name for Kagawa prefecture, which is essentially like the county where our sister city is. And this is a specific mineral. I think it's iron rich. It has, they say that it rings with the sound of happiness. So that's why it's turned into a wind chime. |
| 00:23:41.35 | Robert Stevens | Thank you. |
| 00:23:51.25 | Cindy (KKMI) | And there's still some people at the Thank you. Yep. |
| 00:23:55.67 | Steven Woodside | So just on that point, there is a program that our sister city program here has offering. It is their fees attached to it. So it's not it's not free trip, but it's from April 10th to April 21st, roughly. April 11th. Okay. But you need to leave here on the 10th in order to get there by the 11th. So that will take place and a number of members of this community will be going to Sakai Day. So we look forward to it. And thank you, Harrison, for all you do for this program. Okay, great. that. |
| 00:24:39.53 | Steven Woodside | So now, sorry for the delay. We did have more than the usual special presentations tonight, but I think they're all important in their own way and important for us to hear. We now come to the time on the agenda to hear from the public on matters that are not on tonight's agenda. I do have a couple of speaker cards. I think they are for these general comments. Is that correct, Mr. Clerk? So the first is from Michelle McCullough. Michelle, welcome. |
| 00:25:14.93 | Michelle McCullough | Bye. |
| 00:25:15.00 | Unknown | Bye. |
| 00:25:15.04 | Michelle McCullough | . |
| 00:25:15.15 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:25:16.37 | Michelle McCullough | Thank you. So happy to be here and I have three quick comments that are not on the agenda. And the first two are really thank yous. So I firstly want to say thank you specifically to Vice Mayor Blaustein and Council Member Joan Cox, who I've been working with on the MLK Corp Yard Public Task Force. I want to say thank you for moving us in the direction of transparency and for keeping the promise that you said you would keep when it comes to the oath. And I look forward to... moving in that direction of transparency. So thank you for showing us that transparency is possible in this town. Second thank you is to say thank you for moving us in the right direction with Formula Retail. That's another change. We've boarded the train of change, and it has officially left the station. And this is very exciting for our city. So my third and final comment in that vein is, please, let's keep moving in that direction. I had a very sobering conversation today with Assistant City Planner here, Brandon, and it was very educational, but it was also very discouraging as an entrepreneur and businesswoman in this city for a decade now that as we approach spring 2026, I want to make it very clear I would really like to set up shop and open a business in Sausalito. I would really like to help this city generate some tax revenue. And the more I educate myself on Ordinance 1022, the more discouraged I feel. And my conversation today was eye-opening, and I really appreciate Brandon's time. And I want to say thank you, Brandon. You were very accommodating, very informative, and very invitational. And I hope we can keep talking about Ordinance 1020. I need to and I hope the city council can keep moving us in that right direction because it's very exciting to me and many of my neighbors who I continue to encourage to be positive, about what this city is doing. So thank you, city council. Thank you. |
| 00:27:19.10 | Steven Woodside | Thank you very much. Uh, the second. I hope I get this pronounced correctly, Elizabeth Lizanne Hoggoring. |
| 00:27:29.78 | Unknown | I got my Lizanne, so I figured that was easier. So I partnered with Elizabeth, so apologies for that. |
| 00:27:34.15 | Steven Woodside | I wanted to get your complete name. |
| 00:27:35.97 | Unknown | Thank you. Yeah. |
| 00:27:36.16 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. |
| 00:27:36.21 | Unknown | Right. Well, I did the Hague because my father, Bill Hague, who's here, has been a long-term resident of the community since the early 90s. We own the house on 101 South Street, which is when you come around the bend from Alexander. We're one of the first houses there. We have been struggling with neighbor issues with 103 South Street for going on close to a year now. I've been here a couple times kind of talking about it. What I'm here today about is we are asking one more time that we simply enforce the code, that the law needs to be followed, that we pay tax dollars to have an infrastructure in place to enforce the code. 103 has three violations. I'm going to touch on them. The first one is a hot water heater. It's illegally installed. It has been called out for almost 10 months. There has been no vines given. There has been no resolution given. And we continue to live next door to somebody who does not follow the code. The second one is the fence. Everyone has heard about this fence. We've got the fancy flags. We've got the offensive stickers, etc. That fence is not up to code. We are living in winter. We've got dirt coming down off the thing with the rains and it is not getting addressed. I appreciate that the code was changed in October and that we're trying to work through the administration of that, but it simply hasn't been done. And we are asking... The third one I'm going to talk about is the box. It is a very big, blue, obnoxious box. It is a temporary structure. Section 10.40.080 of the Sausalito Municipal Code. It's very clear as far as what are exclusions to setbacks and what are considered temporary structures. This is a temporary structure. There is a 60-day limit on that, and it has to be removed. We have emailed the attorney multiple times on this. Again, I can appreciate that this is a temporary, this is a gray area because it is a store, Amazon storage box, which is not in the code, but it does need, it is temporary and needs to be addressed. So we're simply asking the city to prioritize this and address the situation for us. Thank you. |
| 00:29:43.14 | Steven Woodside | Thank you very much. just so everyone's aware, we're not able to respond to matters that are not on the agenda, but we are listening. And, uh, |
| 00:29:53.07 | Unknown | Mayor, I did email you February 2nd on this, so I'm going to just put it back at the top of your inbox tonight. All right. |
| 00:29:58.28 | Steven Woodside | Right? Thank you. |
| 00:30:01.88 | Walfred Solorzano | Thank you. |
| 00:30:01.89 | Steven Woodside | . |
| 00:30:02.03 | Walfred Solorzano | further |
| 00:30:02.42 | Steven Woodside | public comment? None on Zoom. No. Okay, thank you very much. We did receive one written public comment on matters not on the agenda, and that's listed on the agenda. So anyone who cares to read that, that's available. We'll now move to the consent calendar. We do have a consent calendar tonight with, let's see, two. Items 3A through 3G. Um, I'll first ask if any of my colleagues have any conflicts or reason to not participate in any of the items. |
| 00:30:37.79 | Melissa Blaustein | not. Isn't one of them the storyteller? fire station have to do with the financing? I don't remember which number it is. three... Yeah, so I, because I live extremely close to, I live within a hundred yards of the Spencer firehouse. So I need to recuse from three C. Okay. |
| 00:30:56.21 | Steven Woodside | 3C. Anyone else? |
| 00:30:57.92 | Walfred Solorzano | Just for the record, what is the distance? Because I drive down the hill, so I don't think you have to recuse yourself when I go up and down because I measured it. |
| 00:31:06.83 | Melissa Blaustein | You did? Because I've been recusing myself since the beginning of the negotiation. |
| 00:31:09.12 | Walfred Solorzano | Yeah. What's the official distance? |
| 00:31:11.72 | Steven Woodside | Well, there's two different distances. It's a little complicated. If you're within 500 feet and you're renting, there still is a presumption that you are a contractor. |
| 00:31:15.28 | Melissa Blaustein | Yeah. |
| 00:31:15.30 | Unknown | Okay. I'm a renter. Go. |
| 00:31:24.65 | Walfred Solorzano | She is beyond 500 feet. |
| 00:31:26.49 | Steven Woodside | Right. And then there's within the thousand feet, and that's a little bit iffy, but A member is entitled to recuse if there's any concern or doubt. |
| 00:31:35.99 | Melissa Blaustein | I mean, I've been recusing out of an abundance of I didn't know that I was not within 500 feet. So I will carry on and recuse. But thank you for measuring, Walford. I appreciate it. |
| 00:31:44.19 | Steven Woodside | Yeah, we can double check going forward. |
| 00:31:48.41 | Sergio Rudin | And to be clear, when it comes to leases, The actual standard is not based on distance is based on whether there is a potential impact on the leasehold, including a change in the termination date, an increase or decrease in the potential rental about rental value of the property. Change to the officials actual legally allowed use or an impact to the use and enjoyment of the property and so that those standards are not based on distance. |
| 00:32:15.64 | Steven Woodside | Very well, thank you. That's helpful. In any event for tonight, Ms. Bielstein is recusing herself from item C3. Any other recusals? Seeing none, I'd like to entertain a motion to approve. Oh, that's right. We need public comment before we have a motion. |
| 00:32:36.69 | Robert Stevens | Thank you. |
| 00:32:42.49 | Steven Woodside | Mark Palmer. Mr. Palmer, welcome. And we did receive a written communication as well. |
| 00:32:51.72 | Mark Palmer | Good evening, council members. Mark Palmer, I wanted to publicly welcome Alexandra Anderson, our sustainability and resilience manager, and also... So that leads on to the Sustainability Commission and voice my strong support for the Tourney Street project, which she's spearheading. Thank you very much. |
| 00:33:11.28 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. Alex Anderson. Would you stand up again? I think we've done this before, but just so everyone sees you. |
| 00:33:26.00 | Alexandra Anderson | Garcia's 10th of resiliency management. Oh, sorry. There we go. Good afternoon, mayor, vice mayor, council members and everyone else here. My name is Alexandra Anderson, and I am the resiliency and sustainability manager for the city of Sausalito. So grateful to be here. I'm sure you'll be seeing a lot more of me. Have a wonderful evening. Thank you. |
| 00:33:51.11 | Steven Woodside | Thank you very much. And thank you, Mr. Palmer, for that introduction. So any other public comments on the consent calendar? Seeing none. Very well. Is there a motion to approve items 3A, B, D, E, F and G? |
| 00:34:10.97 | Melissa Blaustein | Second, |
| 00:34:12.15 | Steven Woodside | Okay. All in favor? |
| 00:34:14.24 | Melissa Blaustein | Bye. |
| 00:34:14.65 | Steven Woodside | Bye. |
| 00:34:15.12 | Melissa Blaustein | I. |
| 00:34:16.27 | Steven Woodside | So those are approved and now separately with Member Blasting, recusing herself. Item 3C, motion to approve. |
| 00:34:25.97 | Joan Cox | Second. |
| 00:34:27.08 | Steven Woodside | All in favor? Bye. |
| 00:34:28.43 | Joan Cox | Bye. |
| 00:34:28.96 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. Four. 01, abstention. So those items have now been approved. We don't have any specific public hearing items tonight, but we do have business items. So let's start with item 5A. And Angeline, are you presenting or Mr. City Manager, do you want to introduce? |
| 00:34:51.32 | Chris Zapata | If I can introduce it, Mayor, that would be much appreciated. Thank you for your time this evening, and thank the folks from KKMI and HDL, our sales tax consultant, for being here. I think they're online. I want to just note that this is a little unusual in terms of an appeal. So the format that we're advocating for tonight is pretty straightforward. It's to give the staff 10 minutes to present what they believe is important and then allow 10 minutes for KKMI and their team to respond and then two minutes back and forth in terms of rebuttal and then go from there. But since we don't normally do this, you know, we're trying to follow that template that we use for normal appeals. And I spoke to Mr. Kaplan this afternoon, so he's prepared for that and also Angeline as well. So Angeline will be first. |
| 00:35:46.78 | Sergio Rudin | Very well. And city manager, just on the format issue, we should also include public comment before the two minute rebuttal periods. |
| 00:35:56.66 | Steven Woodside | We got that. Thank you. |
| 00:35:58.14 | Angeline Loeffler | All right. Good evening. All right. So I'm going to be going through the summary of these appeal documentations. Next slide, please. |
| 00:36:12.59 | Angeline Loeffler | All right, just quick background of the appeal is KKMI has been in a full-service marine repair and maintenance yards located in the Clipper Yachts Harbor in Sausalito, and they've been in the operations since 2009. And the first business license tax was filed on January 1st of 2020, 2010. and KKMI has been maintaining outstanding account statuses since the outside of these audit assessments. On the September 5th of 2025, the audit assessments invoiced for issues to the KKMI, including the 36,127 of the business license tax due, along with the 29,290 and 80 cents of the penalty that associates with it. KKMI, the city staff met with the KKMI on a multiple times incident to discuss the audit assessments and trying to come up with the resolutions for the disputes and was unable to reach the understanding of the mutual understanding of audit findings. And February 3rd of 2026, KKMI submitted the formal, the appeal request to the city related with the audit assessments. Next slides, please. And this is a quick summary of the appeal summary that is filed by the KKMI. The KKMI is appealing the tax classifications or the reclassification determinations made under the Sausalito Municipal Code Section 50423. Specifically, KKMI is appealing the assignments of the business license tax categories. Okay. Prior to the audit, KKMI was assigned to the tax category one, which is the idea generally for the retail, wholesales, restaurant, hotels, and the tour operator and manufacturing, which is the The business tax is due at $1 on every thousand of the gross receipts. But after the audits, KKMI has been reclassified to the category three services and professional, which is $3 per thousand for every gross receipts that reported So as a result, the reclassification has resulted in the additional business license tax of $36,117. I have a little minor typos on there. The audit period's coverage is 2022 through the 2025, not 2023 to 2025. KKMI is the argue that the Sausalito Municipal Code sections, the 504-230 does not explicitly the mentioning of the maritime industries and does not clearly defines how the businesses provide the parts the labor of the boat should be classified in the co-section. So I will be actually diving into a little bit more deeper how we classified and made our determinations. KKMI is also seeking the waiver of penalties that was assessed with this audit assessment of $29,920.80. in the appeal process. Next slide, please. For the next couple of slides, I just want to quickly go over the SOSA leaders, refresh everyone's mind on the current SOSA leader municipal code section 540230 on classification, how it's classified in the current code sections. So Category 1, where the KKMI is currently classified in there is basically for the general retail and wholesales and any of the operator actually sells the tangible goods, not direct association with the services and professional services. Next slide, please. |
| 00:40:25.86 | Angeline Loeffler | And I'm not covering the category two because that's not really relevant for this particular presentation. So I'm actually diving into the category three where the KKMI has been reclassified to the services and professional. So service and professional is, I want to draw everyone's attention on this one is, the individuals engaging in the businesses of the offering to the public professional and semi-professional services for the compensations. I think that's a good thing. is the individuals engaging in the businesses of the offering to the public professional and semi-professional services for the compensations. I think that was the where that I, the IASD reviewed the documentations from the, the HDL, and that's where I actually see that a little bit more in line with the current KKMI's operations. Next slide, please. And this is the additional clause under the Category 3, defining the professional services in that sense, which is the same in notations. The only difference between the services and professional is there is this, Government issued certifications may be differently applied. On the service level, there's no specific requirements that they need to hold a certain type of the government issued certificates. And under the professional services, they may be required in there. That will be the only differences on those two types of the services. Next slide, please. |
| 00:41:54.64 | Angeline Loeffler | and I just wanna quickly go through of how the audit is assessed. And this is the statement that I have received from the HDL for the during the course of the audits and audit documentations. So HDL is actually reviewed There are financial statements along with the direct interactions and conversations with the KKMI to draw the conclusions that they are more fit into the services rather than category one as the retailer or wholesalers in that nature. and during that the audit process the KCAM also provide the other financial statements as part of the supporting documentation to the HDL. Next slide, please. And I have spent a good amount of time to review the documentations that I obtained from the HDL, as well as the conversations with the KKMI to obtain the additional information. Based on those reviews, the audit reports provided by the the HDL and communication information between the HDL and KKMI, along with the deep dive review of our current the Sausalito municipal code sections of the relevant codes. And based on that one, the staff determined that reclassifications to the KKMI's tax category to three was appropriate and upheld the audit assessments issues on September 5th. And outside of those, the classifications noticed, I did not really find any other evidence that is concealing of gross receipts of what was reported to are under the business license. Everything was reported appropriately in that sense. And then also KKMI has consistently made the timely payments and kept their account statuses very current. Next, please. All right, this is actually some of the key points that I just want to quickly run through is, KKMI is formed in 2010. That's the one, the first time they actually submitted the business license, the formed business license. But we did have, the city has updated these categories of the business license tax form on the 2018. which is resulting in the idea that we classification, supporting of that classification. And additionally, in review of the other financial statements, over 70% of their gross receipt is related with the providing the services like a labor repairs hall and the launching and strictly related with the services which is identifiable as the idea KKMI is classification should be under the Category 3 rather than Category 1. And then one of the sales of repair labor generates the largest portion of the revenue, which is about 61% of their gross receipts. And also just point out on the section codes, it says the individual who's engaged in business for the providing the services and semi-professional service should be identified in the Category three, not in category one. Next slide, please. However, the staff is recommending their waiving of the penalties that are associated with the audits. The reason for that is that KKMI made a good effort to stay current with the business license accounts, as well as maintaining the payment history. So based on the history of, and this penalty is not active as the result of the KKMI, so staff is recommending the waive of these penalties. And I think I'm almost running out of time, so I'm not sure our HDL staff, so he may be able to actually make comments later. Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:46:01.89 | Joan Cox | THE END OF |
| 00:46:01.95 | Angeline Loeffler | Thank you. |
| 00:46:01.96 | Joan Cox | Can we ask questions? |
| 00:46:02.54 | Angeline Loeffler | Thank you. |
| 00:46:02.82 | Steven Woodside | Um, Mr. City Attorney, is now a good time to permit council members to ask questions, or should we wait until we've heard from |
| 00:46:05.62 | Unknown | And. |
| 00:46:12.46 | Steven Woodside | um, the appellant. |
| 00:46:14.57 | Sergio Rudin | I think asking council member questions after each presentation is appropriate. Thank you. |
| 00:46:19.29 | Steven Woodside | Okay? |
| 00:46:19.49 | Sergio Rudin | Bye. |
| 00:46:19.58 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. |
| 00:46:20.14 | Sergio Rudin | Very well. |
| 00:46:21.15 | Joan Cox | Thank you. I reviewed the... attachments to the, uh, paperwork from KKMI. And it included, um, an argument that I didn't see addressed in your presentation, which was that prior to the adoption of our business license tax, in 2009, we classified the KKMI business in classification C, which was sort of a catch-all that included repair of tangible personal property under the category manufacturing wholesale studios. It says, it appeared that this was the catch-all for general repairs and services. We bring this up to demonstrate the old system clearly stated repair labor with other miscellaneous retail and manufacturing. So did you consider that, manner in which this, the manner in which the city previously treated KKMI in evaluating whether it's appropriate to move them from category one to category three. |
| 00:47:32.93 | Angeline Loeffler | Yes. I did because the idea actually in fact to look for the previous year prior to the changes in the two that made the other code changes in the 2018. So on the year 2018 day we actually consolidated a lot of business tax code into the just four separate categories and then when they actually made those changes looks like we kind of redefine where everybody's going to fall into then that is the basis on the decisions |
| 00:48:05.08 | Joan Cox | And then what was the delta in 2009 between the classification C, where they were categorized, and the other classification for services? Yeah. |
| 00:48:19.07 | Angeline Loeffler | Unfortunately, I was only be able to go back and find the most recent changes back in the 2018. So I was not able to verify what was classified yet what was category in the 2009. |
| 00:48:33.97 | Joan Cox | Well, Okay, but we adopted the BLT in 20, so in 2018, what was the delta in what we charged for someone in the, in class C versus the class C? the classification related to manufacturing. |
| 00:48:52.06 | Angeline Loeffler | Unfortunately, even on the 2018 changes, it did not, they're specifically indicating these industry as the standalone, it just provided as a blanket of the services in that sense. So there was no specific notations. |
| 00:49:05.36 | Joan Cox | that. Thank you. Another issue raised by KKMI was the lack of notice to them of this change. So is there a reason that when HDL reclassified them from class one to class three, that HDL didn't write to them and say, hey, we're considering changing you from a 1% to a 3% tax category for these reasons, do you have any objection or any, you know, we just changed it and then assessed penalties. Is there a reason we didn't give them an opportunity to weigh in on that decision? |
| 00:49:47.26 | Angeline Loeffler | The way that we're notifying the business owner is through the audit process, and audit process is taking into the places. HDL actually has a direct communications with the business owner and find out all of those nature of it, and then also informing the business owner that there are changes on the classifications through that point. Because based on the number of the accounts the only best way to notify the looking at each of the accounts the business license account is through the audit process because the business license is filed strictly voluntarily and then actually categorizes as signed and then selected by the business owners in many times for the first time business open so HDL is doing corrections throughout the audit processes |
| 00:50:37.18 | Joan Cox | Thank you. |
| 00:50:37.19 | Angeline Loeffler | um |
| 00:50:37.97 | Joan Cox | And I thought I read in one of the papers that we were the people, that it was the city that classified them in class one initially. |
| 00:50:47.64 | Angeline Loeffler | Yes, that was the information that I have received. But unfortunately, I was not able to really identify who actually was made that final determination, which classification they should be in. That is something that I'm trying to work with the internal departments because how that classification is determined by which departments. Certainly, it was, I don't think it was in the finance departments in that sense. So that is something that we have to look into internally. |
| 00:51:19.23 | Joan Cox | And then I did also see the argument that the type of professional services that KKMI provides does not, comport with other types of professional services that are in that same class C category. I did do a little research and I see that in Marin County, their class B categories includes services, operators and all businesses not specifically listed elsewhere. And so for Marin County, many marine businesses do fall under the service and professional services category. Are you aware of other marine businesses that were impacted by this audit in the same manner that KKMI was impacted? |
| 00:52:07.71 | Angeline Loeffler | In fact, when I was looking through the audit result, I did actually pull up working with the HDL to see any other similar type of business, how they have been categorized, and based on what I was able to pull in pulling the similar business, they're all in classification three. And the category three, I'm sorry. |
| 00:52:27.52 | Joan Cox | Okay. They already were in class. Yes, correct. So this was essentially an anomaly. Correct. Okay, those were my questions. Thank you, Mayor. |
| 00:52:30.49 | Angeline Loeffler | They are hard. Yes. |
| 00:52:39.07 | Sergio Rudin | Mayor, if I may also address one of the council members questions, there's a question as to what the effective tax rate was in 2018, prior to the business license tax ordinance being revised. I don't think that's necessarily relevant to the interpretation of the current business license tax ordinance, but I will note that page 11 of the, KKMI's appeal documents indicates that that tax rate was, uh, $4 per, uh, a thousand in gross receipts. Um, up to a million dollars. I will note also that the category tax rate for services and professionals is three dollars. and the category one is $1. So effectively the tax rates have been lowered by the 2018 measure. |
| 00:53:29.67 | Joan Cox | So essentially what you're saying, city attorney, is that Category three is $3 and that the class C that KKMI was paying before adoption of the BLT was $4 per thousand of gross receipts. |
| 00:53:44.51 | Sergio Rudin | I believe that page 11 of their documentation indicates that is the case, yes. |
| 00:53:49.33 | Joan Cox | All right. Thank you. That's very helpful. |
| 00:53:52.74 | Joan Cox | In fact, that was going to be a question to clarify. So that's clarified. But also, I think maybe you misspoke when you said 1% versus 3%. It's pointless. It's 0.1% and 0.3%. |
| 00:54:04.81 | Joan Cox | I should have said $1 versus $3. So sorry about that. |
| 00:54:09.60 | Joan Cox | So my question is just other service marinas in Sausalito, Bayside Boatworks, List Marine, what category are they in? |
| 00:54:17.09 | Angeline Loeffler | they're in category three. |
| 00:54:18.71 | Joan Cox | Thank you. |
| 00:54:26.05 | Steven Woodside | Right. |
| 00:54:29.61 | Jill Hoffman | Sorry. I'm looking at, so we have four core categories now. And the fourth category is interesting because that's a special category, or at least it's a sole category just for contractors. Right. Do you know why there's just a special category just for contractors? |
| 00:54:50.25 | Angeline Loeffler | Oh, I'm not aware why that was the set as a separately because I don't have a whole lot of background information. So the reasoning behind that, why the contractor is separately, I'm not sure this is something that maybe the Sergio or the Chris could answer. |
| 00:55:07.63 | Jill Hoffman | So that was when I was looking through the categories, the other three categories are pretty, they're very general, they're big categories. Um, You know, one is, you know, category one is general retail, wholesale, restaurant, hotels, tour operators, and manufacturing. So they're big categories. Category two is... Um, Shoot. Category two is rental units. Well, that's pretty small. Actually, it's just rental units. And then category three is services and professionals. Again, big, big, big, broad category. Services means, you know, professional services is that term is ordinarily and commonly used. and professional services means any professional services that term is ordinarily and commonly used and then it gives a bunch of definitions awkwardly You know, and I think the problem with KKMI is that it's awkwardly applied both category one and category three. are awkwardly applied to KKMI. They don't really fit under either one. But then you look at, we have very specific categories, right? We have a very specific category for contractors. which is Category 2, which is $2. per thousand of grocery seats. And then we have a category Um, to Sorry, category four is contractors, very specific. And category two, rental units, very specific, $2 per thousand of gross receipts. for both of those two categories. So do you know how, why, or how the code came up with two very specific categories? And then we have two very general categories. |
| 00:56:55.95 | Chris Zapata | Maybe I can take a stab at that. I was hoping maybe you or Council Member Cox could explain that, given that you were here in 2018 when you did this. |
| 00:57:04.12 | Unknown | but I don't know |
| 00:57:05.40 | Chris Zapata | So you modernized your code from 22 and categories. The form. And that was the impetus for it. And so how those categories were come up with was simply to streamline. And, um, Because 22 classifications is unwieldy. And so I thought that that's what you did in 2018 and how you came up with specific four and what those four were comprised of. I think maybe you can help me with that. |
| 00:57:36.84 | Jill Hoffman | I can. Well, maybe you do our discussion. Sure. Yeah. |
| 00:57:40.32 | Steven Woodside | Yeah, this is question time. So let's stick to questions now. But thank you, Mr. City Manager, for helping clarify that. Jill, did you have more at this point? |
| 00:57:51.81 | Jill Hoffman | I don't think I have any further questions at this point. I may after we hear from KKMI. Thank you so much. And thank you for our conversation earlier today. I appreciate that. |
| 00:58:00.16 | Steven Woodside | I have a quick question, not having been here and familiar with the changes over time, but who makes the decision as to allocating to which category? |
| 00:58:10.79 | Angeline Loeffler | It's essentially the business owner, and then when the city reviews the final reviews of the business license application, based on what was submitted as a nature of the businesses, and that gets to determine which category they should be put on. |
| 00:58:25.76 | Steven Woodside | Well, but who makes that decision? So the owner of the business or the operator of the business submits for a license. |
| 00:58:33.69 | Unknown | Mm-hmm. |
| 00:58:34.08 | Steven Woodside | and says, I'm in category one, two, three or four. And who decides that that is not correct or makes a change. Who makes that decision? |
| 00:58:44.63 | Angeline Loeffler | Exactly. is as the city, as a collector working with the HDL, going through some of the reports and what they have submitted. And then also we do the, also do, the preliminary screening, let's say, some of the business may be obvious if they're operating in a restaurant, they're putting themselves in a service industry category three, that's obvious flags. So those are kind of the flags that HDL is actually reviewing on a regular basis to catch those flags. |
| 00:59:17.92 | Steven Woodside | So HDL is a consultant who reviews all of these things and then makes the attempt to apply the |
| 00:59:17.94 | Angeline Loeffler | Thank you. Bye. |
| 00:59:24.96 | Steven Woodside | various ordinances and classification. |
| 00:59:27.05 | Unknown | Yes. |
| 00:59:31.12 | Steven Woodside | Uh, Okay. Ian, can you answer that question? |
| 00:59:36.87 | Ian Sobieski | Yes, I can. And thank you, Mayor and City Council for having me. And I'm sorry for being remote today. I'm currently traveling. um, So to answer, I guess, a little bit of the background of how these applications usually get processed, like when a new business comes into the city to apply for a business license, because historical business licenses, businesses that renew, they constantly renew under the same category unless there's been a significant change to their business model. So how new businesses apply is they apply online for the most part. That application online has a business type associated with it. that business type. you know, helps us kind of guide towards whatever that classification category should fit into. So for an example, let's say like a, a restaurant moves into the city. That's obviously pretty clear cut that there's a very clear categorization into category one and then also. into other types of businesses, so like service-based businesses, like hairstylists and things of that nature. It helps us kind of identify what category they should be put into. Business owners during the application process, due to it being a self-reported tax, have the ability to actually classify themselves. Like they may say, I want to be in this particular category, but the city then has the right to audit The city has the right to basically decide, you know, based on either an assessment or based on whatever the audit results might be, what the amounts would be. Obviously, the way that most business license applications are processed is that the business owner in HDL come to an agreement of what that business type is for the city. And most businesses kind of go off without a hitch. |
| 01:01:07.69 | Steven Woodside | Oh, man. Ian, is it HDL, your company that makes that decision on behalf of the city? |
| 01:01:16.10 | Ian Sobieski | HDL and the city as a partnership, yes. |
| 01:01:20.65 | Steven Woodside | And can you explain... Why? A shipyard is a professional service, such as all those listed in Category three. |
| 01:01:34.37 | Ian Sobieski | I can. So a couple of different things that are applicable here. So one is that there is two different levels to this category three, it's professional service and service. And one of the, one of the basically, the paragraphs, and I think Angeline shared it in one of the presentations that I think it got mentioned a couple times in one of the slides, there's a section that says all other businesses not mentioned. As you can see, most of the categories that you can read in category one, category two, and category four, which I believe one of the council members pointed out, those are pretty specific categories. And then category three is kind of the odd one out that doesn't really mention anything. It doesn't mention anything specific. It's more general. It covers a whole lot. of business activity. That is the it's the catch all for anything that doesn't fall into those three categories or the three other categories. Apologies like the rental units is pretty straightforward. That's a business that is renting out property. The contractors is anyone that is licensed with the contractor state license board. And then category one that's inclusive of retail, manufacturing and tour operators are people that fit our end hotels. Apologies are people that would fit into those classifications on a colloquial basis. And I believe there's even some definitions in the code that state how those should be properly defined. But classification three is for both service-based businesses and and professional service-based businesses, which is why there's businesses that are like hairstylists and other types of businesses that fall into that category, even though they're not what you would on a colloquial basis call a professional service business. |
| 01:03:05.06 | Steven Woodside | But the category three that you refer to as services specifically says services means any professional services. |
| 01:03:10.02 | Unknown | What? |
| 01:03:14.88 | Unknown | Mm-hmm. |
| 01:03:15.51 | Steven Woodside | And then goes on and to say professional or semi-professional services for compensations and not specifically covered under any other part. |
| 01:03:29.04 | Ian Sobieski | of the chapter. |
| 01:03:29.73 | Steven Woodside | And shall include... professions that require governmental certifications or licensure, etc., etc. Um, hair stylist, et cetera. I'm having difficulty and I hope you can explain this, how a shipyard that repairs ships is a professional service within the meaning of that section. |
| 01:03:53.96 | Ian Sobieski | So, yeah, I mean, like I said, I think there's one, there's that section that we just, I think, covered right there, which is the catch-all statement, which is basically saying anything that isn't covered in this chapter or section, which the chapter is the business tax chapter. And then also secondarily, there is the fact that I believe it says including but not limited to, which basically is the, again, another kind of assurance to the catch-all. Again, with all the other categories, the point of the categories is to be specific. And I can also provide background Because I was there during the tax study and the tax ordinance review before I went to ballot with HDL. And I can add a little bit of clarity on why the other tax rates were assessed in those particular categories. The tax rates were originally assessed with the intent of having groupings of businesses be discounted on their rates based on other city taxes that they might be paying. So as you can see, at the lowest tax category, you have retail and restaurants and things of that nature. Those types of businesses obviously typically provide sales tax. Same thing with hotels providing transient occupancy tax. Rental properties providing property tax to the city. And then contractors providing permitting, sales tax, and other types of city services. But like professionals and service categories was put into this category for the specific purpose of that they in general don't provide that same type of all encompassing tax benefit to the city. And so that is why that category is such a catch all category. It's the purpose of that category is to be, if it's not in any of the other categories, it falls into this category. And to again, to more specifically address what you're talking about with the ship, with the shipyard. and the boat repairs that they're doing because it's not specifically mentioned in any of the other categories, it falls into category three. |
| 01:05:40.88 | Steven Woodside | So are you saying that shipyards don't pay property taxes? |
| 01:05:45.71 | Ian Sobieski | I'm saying that that's not inherently what the point of the original measure was. So like for an, again, the, the reason for the measure and the reason why the classifications were created in the first place, it wasn't a, you know, if your business pays property tax, then therefore you fall into this category. The purpose of why the classifications were set up was because it was trying to group specific businesses into lesser tax categories based on if they've provided other city benefits. For an example, obviously a hairstylist can have sales tax revenue, but that wasn't the point of the measure. The point was to capture all of the different types of service-based businesses that generally and in general don't provide the same level of different taxes that the other business types do. |
| 01:06:29.42 | Angeline Loeffler | And if I may add one more thing on that one, on the category three, it's we're actually looking at two separate services and a professional services. And under the services, and it does indicate that there's two major differences that it does not require any of the government issued certificate, which means anybody can be providing the services could be categorized as a catch all that is not listed in any other categories. |
| 01:07:00.48 | Steven Woodside | Anyone else with questions? |
| 01:07:02.71 | Melissa Blaustein | Yeah. Again, I also was not here in 2018, but I'm wondering, and perhaps Ian at HDL can provide further context, but was there notice given that the category might change? And was there guidance with regard to your type of businesses is most likely to be a catch-all business, or was it entirely on the onus of the business owner to determine which classification was appropriate. |
| 01:07:29.95 | Angeline Loeffler | I believe this changes was gone through the ballot, and then there was the notice that was sent out to all the businesses to informing of the possible changes of these categories. |
| 01:07:42.92 | Melissa Blaustein | So Ian, how did you end up selecting specifically, I mean, have we done an audit of all of our boat yards or do we have an idea of if they all potentially fall into the wrong Service? Sorry, the wrong category? |
| 01:07:57.76 | Michelle McCullough | Basically. it, |
| 01:07:58.97 | Ian Sobieski | Thank you. |
| 01:07:58.99 | Michelle McCullough | Thank you. |
| 01:07:59.34 | Melissa Blaustein | Base site is in three, yeah, okay. Okay. |
| 01:08:03.19 | Ian Sobieski | a good Good question. So I mean, just to, you know, to elaborate on how our audit selection process happens, all of our audits are completely random. So we don't actually like select people necessarily. It's mainly done for the purpose is just to basically maintain the city's records and trying to do a good job of making sure things are cleaned up. As you guys can imagine, and this which is why both HDL and the city are recommending waiving the penalties, there isn't like a necessarily like a blame factor that we're trying to push on to the business. The idea is that the businesses obviously tried to pay correctly on a year-to-year basis. It's just that the reality is that not only is there precedent because other businesses that fall into the same type of category or same type of business type fall into that category, and not only that do other similar types of businesses that provide services for compensation also fall into this category, we believe this to be the right category for this business. And that's basically what we're trying to do with this tax assessment, is just put them into the right category have forgiveness towards the penalties. Um, because we don't believe that they should be, penalized for this type of activity. However, we do believe they should be put into the right classification. |
| 01:09:15.52 | Michelle McCullough | Thank you. |
| 01:09:15.53 | Melissa Blaustein | Okay. |
| 01:09:16.87 | Jill Hoffman | So, |
| 01:09:17.76 | Melissa Blaustein | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 01:09:18.44 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 01:09:18.52 | Melissa Blaustein | I'm sorry. |
| 01:09:18.59 | Jill Hoffman | I'm going to follow up. |
| 01:09:18.94 | Melissa Blaustein | Yeah, yeah, I'll go after you. |
| 01:09:18.98 | Jill Hoffman | Yeah. Thank you. Sorry. So Ian, I'm wondering, so Category 1, which is originally what KKMI was in, as well as I think Bayside Boat Works was and maybe some others. And that's general retail, wholesale, restaurant, hotels, but really it's general retail and wholesales, which is what we're. Looking at, and that's any establishment or business that conducts retail, the sale of goods to the ultimate consumers, usually in small quantities. Right, so we're acknowledging that's the sale of goods in small quantities, or wholesale, which is the sale of goods in quantity as to retailers or jobbers for resale. And that's certainly what a boatyard does. And it also includes quote manufacturing. It includes every person conducting or carrying on a business consisting of manufacturing, packing, or processing any goods, wares, merchandise, or commodities at a fixed place of business within the city. So awkward though it is, as in category three, awkward though that is, I'm having a hard time how, a boatyard doesn't fit within category one as well. And when I'm looking at- |
| 01:10:34.56 | Unknown | Oh, sorry. |
| 01:10:35.67 | Jill Hoffman | Well, if I could finish category three. |
| 01:10:36.89 | Unknown | Yes, sir. |
| 01:10:39.44 | Jill Hoffman | service and professionals awkwardly you know, KKMI and Bayside Boatworks and other shipyard and, and you know, boat services may fit in services and professionals as well. But. That also is awkward. the level of professional services that are defined in there, even though that's meant to be the catch all. it seems pretty elevated. because you're talking about licensure under category three. of, you know, actual licensure. Like you're talking about professional services and that, and the definitions there are pretty, clearly laid out the profession of law, medicine, surgery, dentistry, ophthalmologist, you know, and that's not what we're talking about at our boat yards and Marine industries in Sausalito. And so I'm struggling here with, we've broken out two very clear categories of category two rental units And then we intentionally you know, set out a category of contractors. And that's very specific. you know, industry in Sausalito. That requires very specific government licensure. And that's they're reselling stuff. wholesale, retail. Um, but that's a whole category and that's $2. her down. |
| 01:11:57.89 | Steven Woodside | Yep. Ms. Oplen, I hesitate to interrupt because I'm following your train of thought, but I think it's more deliberation than question. This is question time. |
| 01:12:07.19 | Jill Hoffman | Final question is, how do you drop the coin on that? Like, I don't know, other than we want to charge these guys a higher tax. |
| 01:12:18.53 | Angeline Loeffler | Thank you. |
| 01:12:18.64 | Jill Hoffman | Bye. |
| 01:12:19.00 | Angeline Loeffler | If I may just briefly answer your questions on that one, is the SDA category three, as Ian mentioned, it became a catch-all categories, anything, any business that does not fit into other three categories that's clearly defined. |
| 01:12:33.39 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, so that's a great answer. Right. So it's just the fact that it's the catch all. So let me ask you that. So here's my final question. So if we want to create a or if we want to create a category of lesser tax, I, Is it true that That doesn't have to go to the voter. Can the council create a less category of lesser tax if we want to down tax something? |
| 01:12:58.89 | Angeline Loeffler | That might be a Sergio question. |
| 01:12:59.04 | Jill Hoffman | like the ocean. |
| 01:13:02.65 | Jill Hoffman | So if we wanted to create a category of marine Marine industry, and we want to create that at $2. per thousand of grocery seats. Can the council do that without going to the voters? |
| 01:13:15.24 | Sergio Rudin | I think the answer there is probably not. The council can choose to, like, say, declare a tax holiday or something like that. You know, you can defer a collection of taxes. without going to the voters for a period of time, although certain jurisdictions do actually have their voters approved tax holidays. But I think what you are proposing is effectively a change in rate and really a restructuring of the business license tax ordinance. And it would be safer for the city if that was approved by voters. |
| 01:13:44.64 | Steven Woodside | Mr. City. |
| 01:13:46.90 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 01:13:46.92 | Unknown | Yeah. discussion point. Okay. |
| 01:13:48.96 | Steven Woodside | but I wanna follow up with the city attorney, We're looking, and I think it's our responsibility to either affirm or interpret uh, the plain language and the intent of these ordinances, that ultimately that falls to us. That's not changing the ordinance, it's deciding which category is appropriate And if we disagree, with a consultant, if we read the language and interpret it as perhaps some of us are going to be inclined to do, it may be that this is category three is not a catch all and it's not catching all the others. It's a professional category where people are not paying property taxes or other taxes, and that's why the rate is higher. Whereas a contractor category for repairing buildings is much more like a shipyard. I think everyone on the dais knows about the shipyards, either because we've owned a boat sailed on a boat or otherwise, And it's a repair facility. So, um, I'm sorry that's not a question, but I question whether we have to go to the voters or we have our hands tied based on someone else's interpretation of a statute that ultimately we're called upon to interpret. |
| 01:15:16.52 | Sergio Rudin | So I will say in response to that, your job this evening is in fact to interpret the categories in the municipal code as they currently stand and apply them to KKMI. That is the item that is agendized and that is the duty of the council with respect to this particular appeal is to determine which of the four existing categories is the appropriate category. Also address one thing I believe I was incorrect in my earlier statement about the effective tax rate. for classification C in the prior business license tax ordinance. I've had a chance to look back over the materials, placing that on the ballot. Instead of four per a thousand, I believe is actually four per ten thousand. I wanted to correct that now, less the applicant or the KKMI use their time to address that issue. |
| 01:16:10.05 | Joan Cox | Can I do one follow on to it? Sure. for the city attorney as well. My understanding when we placed this initiative in front of the voters was that we could not increase the rate at which we were charging, but we could decrease the rate without having to go back to the voters. And so if we were to agree that HDL's interpretation of Category 3 is a reasonable interpretation, but we would, but we prefer to carve out a subcategory for marine marine professional services, could we do that, you know, reduce that subset? It still is it is still within the ambit of what we had the voters approve. It's we're actually charging less. |
| 01:16:59.41 | Sergio Rudin | Um... Um, I think that is a very good question and one which I would like to research further based on looking over the ballot history and materials before I give you an answer on the dais tonight. |
| 01:17:13.23 | Joan Cox | Thank you. Thank you. And that is just my recollection from being one of the proponents of the ballot, that that was our understanding at the time we put forward. |
| 01:17:22.80 | Steven Woodside | And we're not tonight going to be re rewriting or changing a tax rate. Our, our job is to. |
| 01:17:22.97 | Joan Cox | Right. Right. |
| 01:17:32.79 | Steven Woodside | choose the right category as I understand it. interpret the existing ordinance and |
| 01:17:39.86 | Melissa Blaustein | Bye. |
| 01:17:39.98 | Steven Woodside | and determination. |
| 01:17:40.03 | Melissa Blaustein | Thank you. But is there a path where we would then add subcategory language so that we might avoid, I mean, and say, we find that it's the same, that it is Category 3, but it would require, because I'm really struggling, as there is no direct mention of maritime industries in our code, and they are a critical piece of our economic framework and I think our heart of our like our industry we care deeply about. So I'm just trying to understand what what are our options if we would like to find a path where there aren't penalties and potentially there are not back taxes because it appears KKMI paid on time consistently. |
| 01:18:22.45 | Steven Woodside | I think there are two questions there that we. |
| 01:18:22.94 | Melissa Blaustein | I'm sorry. Sorry, I just, yeah, I want to know what our path is and what our options are. |
| 01:18:27.58 | Steven Woodside | I think the waiver of penalties is being recommended because they have been paying on time. The question is, at what rate should they be paying? |
| 01:18:31.33 | Melissa Blaustein | Yeah. |
| 01:18:38.01 | Steven Woodside | And I think that's before us tonight. |
| 01:18:40.00 | Joan Cox | Well, I was mentioning that for our attorney or for the gentleman from HDL, it sounds to me like the architecture of this structure is that there were specific categories that are very well defined for which there is no ambiguity that were taxed at particular rates. And then there is a catch all for everything else. That's what I'm hearing you say. |
| 01:18:40.04 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. on them from. |
| 01:19:00.71 | Joan Cox | And. So tell me if I've got that wrong and then Can someone tell me if that's correct? |
| 01:19:06.63 | Ian Sobieski | I, that I, your understanding is my understanding. So yeah, all the different categories are set up to be specific. the professionals and services category. is set up to be specific or to be a catch all. |
| 01:19:18.58 | Joan Cox | And then I understand that HDL is actually contracted by the city of Sausalito to administer its tax collection. And you are in the business of reviewing hundreds and hundreds of these sorts of things and collecting the appropriate tax. So this is the first one in five years of this kind of appeal. would you expect that, and this is a judgment question on your part, that if, The city of Sausoli gets into the business of letting people say that, well, my business, it's not specifically mentioned, I'm in category three, but I'm more like this thing in category one or category two, that they would have a grounds then to make that kind of claim for a lower tax treatment. |
| 01:20:02.45 | Ian Sobieski | That would be a potential concern. I mean, there is obviously in general, because of the ambiguity, like the point of the ambiguity of this category is to make it so that it is where people kind of fall into when they're not specific. So for an example, there's nothing in there about software companies. There's nothing in there, like in the code about any type of... you know, virtual business or anything else like that. And the reason for that is because, again, codes throughout time, are they going to expire when economy progresses and changes and becomes different. And the idea is that this category will be that fit for anything that basically changes in the future. And so I would say yes, there would be a concern if they're like, you know, this could be a, you know, in theory, a slippery slope. If we have businesses kind of shift into a different category, and mainly because of you know some specifics that you end up working out. I would agree that that that it had that has a potential to be there. |
| 01:20:58.75 | Angeline Loeffler | And if I like to add one more thing on that one, it will be creating another concern that is the some business, each business maybe interpret things differently, which is some people, some business may be decided to put themselves on a category three versus one, even though they're on the same business. There's also fairness to each of the businesses and we may not, and HDL and Citi may not catch all of those misclassifications going forward. So being a consistency is also another concern as a CEDY. |
| 01:21:30.42 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. So I think we'll hear from KCAM Am I? |
| 01:21:43.10 | Paul Kaplan (KKMI) | And good evening. My name is Paul Kaplan. I am co-founder of KKMI. We started in Point Richmond in 1996 and then we opened our Sausalito yard in 2010. I am the CEO of the company. My business partner retired five years ago. The last time I was before the city council was actually in 2010 when we were in the process of launching the yard. We have gone ahead. and had become recognized as one of the most compliant We have won a lot of yards, certainly in the state of Boatyard of the Year by our National Trade Association, and I won't spend the time sharing with you our recognition, but it's something that I'm very proud of. There's two reasons why I am here. The first one is that, thankfully, I have a fabulous controller, and our business is truly nickels and dimes, and she keeps track of all of our costs, and she brought this matter to my attention. I suspect that maybe some of the other reasons why colleagues of mine have not brought this matter to your attention and brought up this discrepancy is because we do keep track of these matters. Cindy Revelle will speak to the more detailed thing. But the second reason why I'm here truly is because I love what I do. The maritime industry is something that I thrive in. And I was so proud of this council in 2010. In the middle of the Great Recession, which frankly for the marine industry was not so great, Um, And we came before this council and we provided this plan where we were going to build this facility and now it's It's been realized. And this council gave us unanimous approval. And somebody came to me afterwards and said, you guys have just done something that this council does not do with any frequency. In fact, no one could even recall it being a unanimous vote. That to me speaks to the embedded nature of how this town loves the maritime industry. And it is shocking to me. In fact, I've got to tell you, it's appalling that you have a business tax structure and they talk about beauticians and everything else under God's creation. But we're fixing boats. Why didn't somebody just put in the thing, we're in the boat fixing business and we wouldn't be here. So I think that if you really want to send a message that you embrace the maritime industry and want them here, don't triple our business license because that's what you're doing. And that doesn't make any sense. That and the boatyard expression is stinking thinking. And we don't subscribe to that. We're in the business of fixing boats. We're in the business of supplying goods and services. But we can't fix the boats without the goods. Every customer, that third of the sales that you saw there, are goods. The West Marine is paying 1%. Why should we pay three times that for the same goods that we're putting in our customers' hands? That is part of that stinking thinking. But if you really want to celebrate the maritime history, you want to celebrate this really, really disappearing working waterfront, Don't triple our taxes. It just makes little sense. I'd like to have Cindy. Ravel talked to you about the detail of really why we feel this way on us. Give you the Ducson balls, sorry. |
| 01:25:11.48 | Cindy (KKMI) | That's involved. |
| 01:25:12.16 | Unknown | So, Thank you. |
| 01:25:12.95 | Cindy (KKMI) | Ah, oui. Um, I thank you for hearing our side of the story. There's... Hey, Couple of things that I want you, Angeline did a very good job of summarizing the points. So I don't want to go over the same things that Angeline presented. And I appreciate it. the fact that you took time to read our responses. And I can tell that and it's kind of touching that you're taking it that seriously. But there's a couple of points that I would like to, sorry, Not the greatest public speaker here. So there's a couple of points that I want to make. And I do want to go back to our original business license. From the beginning, we have said we are boat repair. That is clear in our applications. It's always been part of this. In 2018, before the wording changed into the most current code, Classification C is manufacturing, wholesale, studios, such as manufacturing, wholesale, grocery, public utilities, commercial, job printing, newspapers, lumber, building supplies, and repair. It clearly states in that classification three, before the business license changed, that that classification included repairs. It even goes on to say auto and watch and shoes. dry cleaning, janitorial. Security services. Art studios. It is a catch-all. Those are very, very dynamic, different types of businesses. And that's how it was done before the new classifications came along. At that time, we were paying $1,200 in taxes. When it changed in 2018, and we went to the current classification of the four different classifications. Even with our taxes going to classification one, 2018, and we went to the current classification of the four different classifications, even with our taxes going to classification one, our taxes were tripled. Now we're talking about tripling them again and going retroactive. which is very painful. So I want to make sure there's that one point about how a small business is being attacked in Sausalito with taxes being gone up pretty dramatically. Everybody seems to be talking a lot about classification, now talking about the new classifications. I think there is a fundamental problem with the classifications. Classification one and classification three were obviously not two and four. Why? There's a lot of word that's talking about this services and professionals category. And HDL and Angeline in the city of Sausalito keep describing that as being the catch all. If you read carefully in that category, I don't read it being a catch-all at all. It's very specific. It says services means any professional services. And then it goes on and talks about licensing required for those. And the city in Sausalito and us, when we were talking about it, they're basically saying, well, it may include a license, but it doesn't have to include a license. But then other paragraphs go on and say, yeah, it shall include a license. If Sausalito had really intended category three to be a catch all, why are we even talking about professional at all? Somewhere in the code, it should be saying, service businesses fall under this category. But they don't. They go into this long explanation of professional services and not one of those. And by the way, a hairstylist is required to maintain a license with the state of California. Every single example in there requires you be licensed with the state or some other public agency, and that's not us. And that's why we do not believe we are category three. I think there's a broad interpretation that's being applied by the city and HDL that. UM, that I don't see the wording in the code, to support their broad interpretation. We chose category one because it at least was closer to what the intent was when the categories changed. And in addition to that, a third of our sales come from Parts. We are selling parts and we are selling, there is nothing in these codes that talk about a business that does repair, installation and sales. It really is. It's a vacuum. |
| 01:30:04.96 | Paul Kaplan (KKMI) | like to just add that Over the course of the past 16 years in operating, we haven't changed what we've done. So why would we go into two different categories if we changed our operation? That might make some sense, but we're still fixing boats. So the city was perfectly happy receiving the revenue or the percentage of the revenue under that type of business operation. Why can't we just continue the way we were going along? So, you know, one was correct or the other. You can't be both correct. |
| 01:30:37.46 | Cindy (KKMI) | The intent of what was talked about as professional services, It talks about how things are commonly used for professional services. If you go out there and look at what is the definition, at least being a small business person, you're trying to read through a code, you're trying to figure out where you belong, If you go ahead and search professional services, Um, Google will say something like professional services are intangible, specialized services for expertise like legal, accounting, counseling provided by qualified individuals, for complex tasks or requiring licenses, intellectual knowledge, focusing on advice and solutions rather than physical products. We are all about physical products. That doesn't sound like anything that we do. That does sound like lawyers, accountants, everybody that you referenced in category three as being your examples, but that's not us. Wikipedia will talk about professional services. is requiring specialized I guess I'm out. You can. Thanks for this. What's that? |
| 01:31:48.81 | Kieran Culligan | You can read it. whatever. |
| 01:31:51.54 | Cindy (KKMI) | Thank you. they will go ahead and talk about Um, that requires special training in liberal arts and pure sciences, education, the professional services, doctors, engineers, lawyers, Um, specific skills, degrees, professional degrees, It, to me, As I read category three, it's really focusing on that. It's not a catch-all. as the words are written and the code. So that leaves it to be that there's a problem with the code that doesn't deal with a business like ours. But I really don't see how we should be penalized retroactive. When the best of intention is you're trying to pay your taxes on time, and move forward and it seems a little hard that HDL waited. And we've said we've been in the repair business from the very beginning, HDL waits We get audited. until the maximum penalties could be assessed us. Okay. It was a random audit, that could be, but it feels a little hard that If this was the case, why couldn't it have been brought up a whole lot earlier? |
| 01:33:04.73 | Steven Woodside | OK, thank you very much. Any any questions? |
| 01:33:05.47 | Cindy (KKMI) | Thank you. |
| 01:33:12.10 | Cindy (KKMI) | There's a lot that was covered earlier that addressed. Appreciate it. |
| 01:33:16.00 | Joan Cox | I have a question, but in response, |
| 01:33:16.15 | Cindy (KKMI) | We're coming. |
| 01:33:18.52 | Joan Cox | to to actually Ian from HDL. So I don't know if that's appropriate in this. Okay. |
| 01:33:23.54 | Steven Woodside | I think right now, let's start with, are there any questions for those from KK Ma? |
| 01:33:23.78 | Joan Cox | I'm sorry. |
| 01:33:30.60 | Steven Woodside | Okay, so thank you very much. |
| 01:33:32.52 | Cindy (KKMI) | Thank you for your time. |
| 01:33:33.47 | Steven Woodside | So. |
| 01:33:33.84 | Cindy (KKMI) | Thank you so much. Yeah. Thank you. |
| 01:33:35.85 | Steven Woodside | Um, Mr. City Attorney, in terms of order of procedure, do we take any public comments at this point? |
| 01:33:45.43 | Sergio Rudin | Yes, it would be helpful to take public comment before the two-minute rebuttal periods. so that both parties could respond to public comment |
| 01:33:55.88 | Melissa Blaustein | Can I ask or do a question about the code? |
| 01:33:57.68 | Steven Woodside | And in the meantime, is it okay for any of us to ask you a question? |
| 01:34:02.02 | Unknown | Yes. |
| 01:34:02.83 | Steven Woodside | Okay. |
| 01:34:03.77 | Melissa Blaustein | Sergio, Noted in the staff report and in HGL's interpretation of their reasoning for the audit, it states that 70% of the use or the revenue is from what they're determining as service use. But I was looking back through the relevant municipal code, and I don't see anything that says X percentage or a majority percentage percentage. puts you into that category. Am I missing something? Is there a very specific, if 50% of your services are professional and 50% are manufacturing, you have to be, I mean, where is the line there? |
| 01:34:37.96 | Sergio Rudin | You are correct in that there is nothing in the municipal code on that specific point. There is a provision of the municipal code authorizing the tax collector, which is defined as the finance director to make the classification determination. based on information received from the business and then also of course, right of appeal to challenge that termination, which is why we are here. So. |
| 01:35:05.03 | Melissa Blaustein | But there's nothing in the code that says majority percentage require requires you to be X or Y use. So if we wanted to determine that because the 30% does qualify as that the current use, then they could still remain in that use. or that code, service level, whatever classification. |
| 01:35:25.16 | Sergio Rudin | Um, Yes, you in theory could do that or determine that the interpretation taken by staff regarding what category three means and what it applies to is not correct. |
| 01:35:37.19 | Melissa Blaustein | But if we'd like to, as a body, we are allowed to make an interpretation based on the general types of use, which classification applies. So if we find that there is, in fact, service use, even if it's not the majority use, that is our prerogative to determine, correct? Correct. |
| 01:35:53.48 | Sergio Rudin | I do believe so. Typically, these kinds of decisions are reviewed for abuse of discretion. So, you know, as long as they're supported by evidence in the record and they are within the realm of reason, courts should be upholding them. |
| 01:36:10.79 | Melissa Blaustein | Great. Thank you, Sergio. |
| 01:36:15.28 | Steven Woodside | Andy, did you want to ask city attorney questions? Okay. |
| 01:36:25.34 | Sergio Rudin | And the council member's microphone is off, so I'm not hearing it. |
| 01:36:27.73 | Joan Cox | All right, my question was for Ian from HDL, but I think under the procedure, I have to wait until they do their rebuttal. |
| 01:36:33.42 | Steven Woodside | You'll be able to ask the question at some time, but let's let the, um, Um, Angeline, did you want to, uh, state anything more at this time in rebuttal? Do we take public comment first or do we? |
| 01:36:45.93 | Sergio Rudin | Yeah, and actually it may be a good time to ask the question of HDL. That way, the applicant would also have an opportunity to respond to anything HDL says. |
| 01:36:54.28 | Joan Cox | Okay. Okay. My question then for Ian from HDL is that the, um, appellant, articulated this question about the definition that was provided in the slide set around category three as going on and on about services and chiropractors and osteopathy and whatnot. But the assertion from you is also very clear. You're asserting that this is the catch-all. So if you're not in category one, two, or four, you're in category three, that's your structure. Uh, so where do we see that in the, in the code. |
| 01:37:33.44 | Ian Sobieski | So it's in the services section. So there's two different definitions that are provided in category three. There's services and then there's professional services. In the services section, it talks about that it basically says any other business or any other type of business that isn't mentioned in the category. And I'm obviously shorthanding that a little bit. But the idea is that there's two different sections. It says shall include but is not limited to and also includes the fact that it says, you know, any business that isn't mentioned in any part of this chapter or section. And the chapter or section that's in question is the business tax chapter. |
| 01:38:09.79 | Joan Cox | Okay, so I don't know if you can actually pull that up because all that we saw in the presentation was the second half And that I think both leads to confusion and might be misleading on the pertinent law because, um, |
| 01:38:16.14 | Ian Sobieski | that. |
| 01:38:21.34 | Joan Cox | the slide that Angeline showed only has this lengthy definition of, quote, professional services, but it doesn't have this first part that you're talking about. So can somebody |
| 01:38:30.55 | Ian Sobieski | It doesn't. that. I can pull it up right now if that's OK. |
| 01:38:35.19 | Angeline Loeffler | I think there is a slide on the other. |
| 01:38:37.37 | Steven Woodside | I thought it was on the slide. It's the paragraph before professional. |
| 01:38:41.35 | Angeline Loeffler | Yeah. And there's a |
| 01:38:41.37 | Steven Woodside | Yes. Thank you. |
| 01:38:42.24 | Joan Cox | And there's one. Thank you for alerting me. I missed that slide. So I just didn't see it. So it's my fault as usual. So thank you. I'll read that. |
| 01:38:49.84 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. But let me take a moment to read it. It's short. services means any professional services as that term is ordinarily and commonly used and understood, wherein individuals are engaged in the business of offering to the public professional or semi-professional services for compensation and not specifically covered under any other part, chapter or section of this chapter, and shall include those professions that may require governmental certification or licensure, but not limited to the services rendered by a person regularly engaged in the practice of a profession such as hairstylist, beautician, cosmetologist, astatician, or arts instructor. That's the complete sentence. And what I hear from Ian is that that's a catch-all um, And I'll just be... Frank, I don't see it as a catch-all. It's very specific. It has a number of ands. And I know I'm jumping ahead perhaps, but I'm concerned |
| 01:40:13.45 | Joan Cox | Michelle. THE END OF THE END OF THE Yeah. |
| 01:40:17.74 | Unknown | . |
| 01:40:17.81 | Joan Cox | Okay. Thank you. |
| 01:40:18.75 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. There is a shell in there, yes. |
| 01:40:23.97 | Unknown | I'm sorry. |
| 01:40:25.37 | Steven Woodside | Yeah. |
| 01:40:25.42 | Unknown | All right. |
| 01:40:25.54 | Steven Woodside | All right. Is there anything else, Angeline, that you needed to add at this point? |
| 01:40:33.62 | Angeline Loeffler | One quick comment on this categories, these type of businesses normally does not have the additional sales tax revenue associated with it. And that was the reason I believe it was there in the higher classifications. Some of those examples on those services professional, they're not required to file the sales taxes. And that was the reason that led to the higher, the business license taxes imposed on these type of businesses as well too. So once again, this is really limited to the examples that listed on the actually spelled it out in the, the code section is like I said, it's a limited to, it's not the complete listing of the services that we spelled it out. So that's the where I see that it's falls into to make sure that any businesses does not fall into the, any of the clearly defined categories in the code section should fall into these particular categories. |
| 01:41:32.45 | Joan Cox | So Mr. Mayor, could I ask a follow-up question to yours then? Because you're emphasizing the ands, which are these conjunctions that make a logical uh connection so it seemed to seem suggest that services only mean if you're putting a lot of weight on the word and something that qualifies on all of those check marks it might be poorly drafted but it's hard to imagine that that's the intent in this section three or it'd be extremely limiting it would be only the sections three would be only those things that met all of those things that you just conjoined with the word and so the almost potentially a null set, very small number of things. So I'm still confused as to this point because Angeline is asserting and Ian is asserting from HDL that this is the catch all, you know, reading this, it suggested it should actually say or perhaps so that it catches all those things. But you're right, it says and and but then it would mean that Section 3, Thank you. isn't. You can't very few things could be all of those things that are conjoined by the word and |
| 01:42:31.32 | Steven Woodside | second part to section three. that lists Tons of professions. Correct. Okay. This first one, we don't pay property taxes. maybe don't pay sales taxes. And so there's a rationale to have a catch all category at a high tax rate. This is a shipyard. It doesn't fit. it. |
| 01:42:53.75 | Joan Cox | You're commenting now, not answering. |
| 01:42:55.52 | Steven Woodside | That's correct. I stand corrected. But isn't that what this case is all about? |
| 01:43:02.07 | Angeline Loeffler | Thank you. |
| 01:43:02.09 | Jill Hoffman | Isn't that right? |
| 01:43:04.58 | Angeline Loeffler | If I may, one statement onto that one is the HDA and I were interpreting this category three is not services and professional. We look at it as services or professional separate categories. So that's how we make the determinations. KKMI is falling to the service categories. That is, we made the determinations for the that they should be in the category threes. |
| 01:43:37.88 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 01:43:39.04 | Steven Woodside | Hoffman. |
| 01:43:40.10 | Jill Hoffman | I have a follow-up for, this is either for Angeline or Ian, and it's the statement in the staff report that an examination of KKMI's profit and loss statement reveals that over 70% of its revenue are derived from service-related activities. And I'm looking at attachment six. And that's the KMI. And is that the profit and loss statement? And is that what was used to look at where that 70% of its revenues are derived from service-related activities. Because I'm looking at the profit and loss statement and it looks to me like, The... Well, let me ask you this. What did you rely on when you were looking at the revenues that were derived from service-related activities for your 70% numbers. Can you tell me what activities you were looking at? Yes, I can. |
| 01:44:32.37 | Angeline Loeffler | Yes, I can. So labor repair is part of the service label and this hall and launch is the service the labor and also outside services considered as a services is and also same thing with the storages is considered as a service related revenues. |
| 01:44:52.67 | Jill Hoffman | So, thank you so much for that. And then I'll have a follow-up question. on those. So, let me read this back to you. So, labor and repair parts, and launch and storage. And that's what we relied on to get your 70% number for service. |
| 01:45:07.15 | Angeline Loeffler | No, not the parts. It's for the labor repair second items and the fourth item, hall and launch. And the outside service is right below the hall and launch. And the last item is a storage feast. |
| 01:45:27.56 | Jill Hoffman | And so you did include storage. |
| 01:45:29.98 | Angeline Loeffler | Yes. |
| 01:45:30.20 | Jill Hoffman | Okay. |
| 01:45:30.72 | Angeline Loeffler | That is the strictly the services. There's no tangible, the goods are involved. |
| 01:45:36.54 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, thank you. And just foreshadow. Paul, I'm going to ask you if any parts and sales are included in any of those |
| 01:45:44.90 | Angeline Loeffler | No, it has not. It's not, it's part of the 30%. |
| 01:45:49.32 | Jill Hoffman | Okay. Okay. So I'm still gonna ask Paul that question. Thanks. All right. |
| 01:45:59.39 | Cindy (KKMI) | Did you wanna ask Paul? |
| 01:46:00.25 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. Yeah. If you're done, Angelina, are you finished? Well, |
| 01:46:03.48 | Paul Kaplan (KKMI) | The city attorney invited me to comment on HDL. First of all, the only reason why we're here is because HDL has made this determination that And, you know, frankly, I got to tell you, I work with contractors and so on. I understand why the city does what they've done. But it's kind of frustrating to even be here and not able to even face my accuser. They want to be able to have Ian there, but he's not even a part of the dialogue. We had a meeting scheduled several weeks ago. Took a long time to put the meeting together, get all these voices and then talking heads and so on. HDL didn't even bother to show. They didn't even send their representative. And it sort of begs the question, what's their motivation? Do they get a piece of every dollar that they're able to put into the city's coffers beyond what's currently there? Because it's sort of puzzling because it's so obvious how this thinking is so poor, yet what would motivate somebody to do it? And especially when they're not connected to really understanding what it is that makes this town and this waterfront work. If it's all being motivated by money, that's just hunky-dory. But they also were the folks that initiated this whole process. And it's crazy to me that I can't even have a face-to-face conversation with the people that initiated that. So I'm sorry to get a little dirty in that area, but the city attorney asked for us to comment. And I frankly kind of, It's hard enough to run a small business, let alone devote your time on things that produce actually no revenue, no services to our customers, no betterment at all, other than potentially feathering the nest of some other contractor. So thank you. |
| 01:47:49.45 | Jill Hoffman | So you're frustrated with the fact that you didn't get to have a sit down with HDL and ask them what their methodology was for moving you from category one to category two? |
| 01:47:57.03 | Paul Kaplan (KKMI) | They didn't show. |
| 01:47:57.84 | Jill Hoffman | If I could. Okay. So my point was, I was trying to get to the comment in the staff report that 70% of your revenues were derived from just the service activities. My suspicion is your service activities are closely related also to your sales. because you also do sales. Can you comment on that, Cindy? Yes. That's Cindy. Like, comment. |
| 01:48:15.91 | Cindy (KKMI) | Yes, like comment on that. |
| 01:48:17.43 | Jill Hoffman | Okay. |
| 01:48:18.09 | Cindy (KKMI) | So as it relates to Uh, storage. There are no parts that go along with storage. Okay. |
| 01:48:24.82 | Jill Hoffman | Fair enough. |
| 01:48:25.75 | Cindy (KKMI) | Okay, as it relates to all the other categories, whether they are outside services that are not just services, that means we've hired another company to do an activity. |
| 01:48:36.56 | Jill Hoffman | Yeah. |
| 01:48:36.90 | Cindy (KKMI) | But when you talk about the general labor and you talk about the parts and you talk about the haul out, What that really is to envision is You can't work on the boat unless you get the boat out of the water. So you've got to haul the boat out of the water. So it's the charges for that. But then you're immediately putting a tech on a repair tech to do the repair who's equally selling parts at the same time as they're doing labor. |
| 01:49:02.86 | Jill Hoffman | And you sell the parts through your shop? |
| 01:49:05.51 | Cindy (KKMI) | Yes, the bill to a customer looks like you've got this many parts, this many hours of labor, and this is the total. |
| 01:49:12.95 | Jill Hoffman | And you run those through your shop. Are those sometimes retail and sometimes wholesale? |
| 01:49:16.73 | Cindy (KKMI) | There are a few... |
| 01:49:18.18 | Jill Hoffman | No, it was good. |
| 01:49:18.20 | Cindy (KKMI) | No wholesale. Good. There's tiny wholesale wholesale. |
| 01:49:20.90 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, but mostly it's retail and that's through your shop that you have on your boatyard. |
| 01:49:25.67 | Cindy (KKMI) | correct. Okay. We get, and we collect all the sales tax on all the parts and, |
| 01:49:25.99 | Jill Hoffman | Okay. Okay. Is there a... Okay. |
| 01:49:31.60 | Cindy (KKMI) | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 01:49:31.75 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 01:49:32.15 | Cindy (KKMI) | for the... |
| 01:49:32.47 | Jill Hoffman | Okay. |
| 01:49:33.11 | Cindy (KKMI) | Thank you. |
| 01:49:33.13 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 01:49:33.13 | Steven Woodside | Yeah, I think our questions have been answered and |
| 01:49:33.15 | Cindy (KKMI) | Okay. |
| 01:49:33.27 | Jill Hoffman | Yeah. |
| 01:49:33.35 | Cindy (KKMI) | I think. |
| 01:49:33.42 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 01:49:33.65 | Cindy (KKMI) | Thank you. |
| 01:49:33.79 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 01:49:33.81 | Cindy (KKMI) | Thank you. |
| 01:49:36.79 | Steven Woodside | Oh. |
| 01:49:37.27 | Cindy (KKMI) | Yeah, and you would have broken the... I've had a lot of time. I just want to make one comment on the HDL. Okay. You ask questions of HDL, you don't get an answer. They just say, thank you very much, and you don't get, okay. |
| 01:49:46.87 | Unknown | OK. OK. |
| 01:49:49.97 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. |
| 01:49:50.17 | Cindy (KKMI) | Thank you. Thank you for your time. I appreciate it. |
| 01:49:51.93 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 01:49:52.08 | Steven Woodside | Okay. Um, Mr. City Attorney next in the procedure. |
| 01:49:58.78 | Sergio Rudin | public comment, which we have not had yet, I believe. |
| 01:50:01.33 | Steven Woodside | That's right. So does anyone in the public wish to add something to this discussion? Seeing none in the, |
| 01:50:09.24 | Walfred Solorzano | We have Babette McDougall. |
| 01:50:11.18 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. |
| 01:50:16.47 | Steven Woodside | Is McDougal? |
| 01:50:17.70 | Babette McDougall | Yes, sir. Here I am. Thank you very much for acknowledging me. So, you know, I got to say, as a resident and someone that was involved with a beautiful Erickson 32 that sat at Clipper for 30 years and always got pulled out what was formerly Anderson, every time I'm in that neighborhood, I actually do a pale KKMI. Thank you for coming in and taking up the place. where everybody loved to hang out at Anderson's. I mean, it was a great place. The community there was wonderful. And KKMI is similar. And I just went on the website and looked at what they do under, you know, how they spend their time. And it's kind of insulting to have a business stand there. And it's like, Being slapped around, it makes me embarrassed because look, everything that they offer, like they said, parts, that goes ka-ching one way or the other. And I don't understand this pennywise pound foolish. I don't really understand why Sausalito doesn't just step up and get rid of these middlemen. These consultants are making us nuts. They're breaking the bank. And we don't have control of our own destiny. I thought Ms. Blaustein was brilliant. When she said the obvious, which is, why don't we have a maritime classification? That is who we are. So I just ask you, what are you doing? Why are we spending this past hour plus debating this down to the dirty details when it shouldn't have happened in the first place? Thank you. I yield back my time. |
| 01:51:53.89 | Walfred Solorzano | Thank you. |
| 01:51:53.92 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. |
| 01:51:54.02 | Walfred Solorzano | that. |
| 01:51:54.05 | Steven Woodside | All right. Bye. |
| 01:51:54.37 | Walfred Solorzano | Thank you. |
| 01:51:54.41 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. |
| 01:51:54.59 | Walfred Solorzano | Yeah. Next speaker is John. |
| 01:51:59.98 | Walfred Solorzano | Thank you. |
| 01:51:59.99 | Unknown | Hello, can you hear me? Yes. Oh. This is John DeRay. I'm a member of the Sausalito Working Waterfront Coalition and also a member of the Economic Development Advisory Committee. I'd like to comment in support of KKMI's appeal of the $36,000 for the misclassification as it was approved by the city. So I don't see it as being their fault. And also the $29,000 for the related penalty. I think should also, we should also accept the appeal of KKMI. I think it's important to understand that these boat yards and other businesses in the Marineship are part of an economic ecosystem that generate Um, direct revenue not only direct revenue into Sausalito's economy from their business, but also indirect revenue as other maritime businesses like engine repair techs, riggers, electricians are tapped for their expertise. Of course, sales tax is part of this as well, as you've discussed. And then there's also the the induced revenue by their employees at grocery stores, restaurants, retail stores, and also the boat owners who come drop off their boat and spend money in our local economy. So, The 0.3 category for maritime businesses, I think is in my view, a bit egregious. I kind of like at the very most, perhaps the mayor's idea of declaring maritime businesses should be part of category four, which make it the 0.2%, or perhaps leave it at the 0.1%. But I think, uh, the 0.3% is a bit egregious. Remember, we would like to attract more maritime businesses to our waterfront. So this is an opportunity to do that, I think. Thank you. Any other comments? |
| 01:53:53.88 | Walfred Solorzano | Yes, we have Adrian Britton. |
| 01:54:00.04 | Adrian Brinton | Good evening, Mayor and members of the council. Thank you for taking my time. |
| 01:54:03.25 | Steven Woodside | We're having a very difficult time hearing you. |
| 01:54:06.67 | Adrian Brinton | Uh, sorry. Is this any better? |
| 01:54:09.61 | Steven Woodside | A little bit. |
| 01:54:11.28 | Adrian Brinton | Okay, I'll try to speak loudly and clearly. It's always a good day when I can find common ground with Mr. Duree. And I think that prioritizing our maritime businesses is very important. And I'm surprised to learn that we don't have category for maritime businesses. You know, we can use our tax code to encourage the type of businesses that we want in Sausalito. And by creating a category for maritime and even industrial, That would be a way to do that. I'd be interested to understand how our tax rates compare to other industrial areas like Richmond. Are we charging more? Are we charging less? Maybe we can charge less and encourage more businesses. I'd also be very interested to know in the Marin ship how much tax revenue is coming from the different types of businesses, maritime versus the businesses, the more kind of white collar businesses. My sense is it's not as much. And it's something that we want to encourage. And I don't think it's an area that we're going to see a massive growth in city revenue. And it's something we should be supporting. So lowering the tax rates here on the maritime businesses and increasing tax rates, you're using our increased tax rates on other types of businesses, I think would be very advantageous. So lowering the tax rates here on the maritime businesses and increasing tax rates, using our increased tax rates on other types of businesses, I think would be very advantageous to our longer term plans and would fit better with our identity. Thank you very much. |
| 01:55:32.23 | Steven Woodside | Any other public comments? |
| 01:55:33.66 | Walfred Solorzano | Yes, we have Karen Culligan. |
| 01:55:39.96 | Steven Woodside | Mr. Culligan? |
| 01:55:41.26 | Kieran Culligan | Yeah, good evening. I wasn't planning on commenting on this topic, but since I've been listening for the past hour plus when I started. I expected that this was going to be pretty clear This is a service business, even though there was a mix of materials and services, but it's predominantly services and it'll be in category three. And then as I listened to it and now looking at the actual code that's being referenced. It just doesn't. Makes sense. I think that it's not clear cut here. The category three is not It might be intended as a catch-all, but The ordinance as its phrase is, Not written that way. And so I don't think that there's a way for city council to make that finding and make a change. So my suggestion would be tonight. the city council uphold The appeal? Because there is kind of no basis to overturn the categorization that the city has already made to be category one. So keep it as is, the city has already made that finding. And there's some cleanup to do, clearly, in ARC code for all of the reasons stated. Thank you. |
| 01:56:53.47 | Walfred Solorzano | Any others? Yes, we have Lorna Newland. |
| 01:56:59.93 | Walfred Solorzano | Thank you. |
| 01:56:59.95 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:57:01.45 | Lorna Newland | Hello, I'm Lorna Newland, long time resident, long time small business owner. And I know it's very difficult to sometimes get things done and sometimes it's not. Sometimes everything goes well for your small business. But I wanted to comment on, on want the present in the presentation where they talked about how difficult it can be to deal with HDL.gov. And several years ago, I had trouble getting my business license up to date and back and forth. They could not find I've had an occupational permit for 23 years. So unfortunately, they couldn't find it. I don't know where mine was, but it was just a lot of difficulty getting through to them when I did have... All my proper things. So I'm just concurring when the nice woman had said about how difficult it was to deal with. And I do agree with that. When something is farmed out to a contractor, and even though they're working for the city, you can't get an answer from like city staff. You have to go right to them. Thank you. |
| 01:58:18.04 | Walfred Solorzano | No further public comment. |
| 01:58:19.43 | Steven Woodside | Very well, so bring it back here for discussion and decision. |
| 01:58:23.49 | Joan Cox | Um, mayor, the city manager had stepped out when Mr. Kaplan made his rebuttal comments. And I wanted to ask him a question if that's okay, because he didn't hear. So, um, Mr. City Manager, we heard from Mr. Kaplan that after much, um, |
| 01:58:33.10 | Natalie Butts | Sure. |
| 01:58:41.74 | Joan Cox | Coordination, a meeting was scheduled between KKMI, city staff, and HDL, and the HDL did not show up. |
| 01:58:51.95 | Chris Zapata | Do I have to answer that question? |
| 01:58:54.51 | Joan Cox | I would appreciate |
| 01:58:55.90 | Chris Zapata | Yeah. |
| 01:58:56.05 | Joan Cox | understanding because if HDL said they were going to come to a meeting and didn't come that seemed |
| 01:59:02.63 | Chris Zapata | I saw that email from Mr. Kaplan, and I intended to respond to it because it's not quite accurate. HDL, I believe, participated late, or somebody that wasn't party to that particular case was there, and I can document that. I'm happy to do that with Mr. Kaplan. My understanding was it just was a shortage of someone out of town from HDL, so they had to send someone else, but they had someone at the meeting. The meeting was predominantly with city staff and the city attorney and Mr. Kaplan and Cindy. But yeah, HDL had a representative there. All right. Thank you. |
| 01:59:38.00 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. |
| 01:59:38.02 | Joan Cox | question from Mr. Sobieski. Yeah, thanks. I don't know if this is a Sergio question or a city manager question, but if we find for KKMI in this case, and give them a different classification, whether it be one or two. uh, that will dispose of this particular case, but then what is the legal, uh, obligation of the city for all other businesses like KKMI, uh, to refund them there. If the category is different, are we then should we immediately go through all the shipyards and other businesses doing an audit of ourselves, find out everyone that's similar and issue them a refund? And then would that go all the way back till 2010 or? What? So that's my question. What would be the larger implications of what we then would have to do as an organization? |
| 02:00:29.89 | Sergio Rudin | Um, |
| 02:00:29.94 | Steven Woodside | I'm not sure. |
| 02:00:30.01 | Joan Cox | Yeah. |
| 02:00:30.06 | Steven Woodside | No. |
| 02:00:30.24 | Joan Cox | Thank you. |
| 02:00:30.34 | Steven Woodside | I agree. |
| 02:00:30.40 | Joan Cox | And you, |
| 02:00:30.97 | Steven Woodside | answer that? |
| 02:00:31.95 | Sergio Rudin | Yes, yes. There is a procedure for seeking and requesting a refund, which any business that feels that they have been misqualified would need to avail themselves of. Typically also with regards to refunds of illegal taxes, public agent or you know, um, Individuals do normally have to file a government code claim. But we do have a different process set forth in our ordinance for seeking refund of business license taxes for overpayment. |
| 02:01:03.08 | Joan Cox | So, I mean, So that is a new time process, but since we... |
| 02:01:05.70 | Sergio Rudin | Yeah. |
| 02:01:08.24 | Joan Cox | You know, we're a small town. We know a couple of the of these shipyard operators. So if we are actively found in the favor of KQMI in this case, are we bound to have to wait for the refund applications or could we proactively direct staff to issue those refunds retroactively to the beginning of the collection of the taxes in 2010. |
| 02:01:29.93 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:01:30.03 | Joan Cox | Thank you. |
| 02:01:30.15 | Sergio Rudin | Right. |
| 02:01:30.54 | Joan Cox | This is my question. |
| 02:01:32.38 | Sergio Rudin | I think you could make that determination and give that direction. That's not before you this evening on the agenda. |
| 02:01:38.27 | Joan Cox | That'd be a separate item. |
| 02:01:39.68 | Sergio Rudin | I would recommend, yeah. |
| 02:01:43.21 | Joan Cox | So absent a separately agendized item of some kind or another, all that will be decided here today is the particular issue of the tax obligation of KKMI. |
| 02:01:53.05 | Sergio Rudin | Correct. Yes, that is the only item for you to decide tonight. |
| 02:01:55.82 | Steven Woodside | Okay, thank you very much. And at a future date, we could give direction with respect to, for example, a self-audit, if you will, of like, industries and suggests, for example, that their tax bill be adjusted prospectively |
| 02:02:13.57 | Joan Cox | Thank you. |
| 02:02:14.41 | Sergio Rudin | Yeah, that would be my expectation is that generally you want to apply your tax ordinance the same way you must apply all other ordinances fairly and equitably among similarly situated individuals. So I would expect that with regards to if the council makes an interpretation about this business specifically and that interpretation applies to other similarly situated businesses, I do think that I would expect that the tax collector would follow that determination and use it moving forward. |
| 02:02:50.74 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. I'm prepared to move forward to grant the appeal. Um, and make the determination that it appears that there is no clear category applicable However, it's a choice, as I see it, between categories one and category four. but neither of those is perfect. and I'm prepared to suggest that we grant the appeal and, uh, place KKMI in category one. and then ask for staff to come back to take a look at what we might do prospectively to clarify this going forward. So that's all right. I'd like to make that motion. Yes. |
| 02:03:47.49 | Melissa Blaustein | Second, |
| 02:03:51.44 | Sergio Rudin | And council, one of the requirements of the city ordinance is that you make a written finding. There is a draft resolution in the agenda packet, so the council would need to modify section one of that resolution. to find that the City Council overturns the classification determination, the City Finance Director reclassifying KKMI from business license category one to category three. and classifies KKMI in category one. So those will be the modifications to that resolution. |
| 02:04:22.90 | Joan Cox | Thank you. Can I ask you a question? Since there's no motion on the table, right? We can discuss it. So just in terms of some other businesses that are kind of analogs a little bit, the car... repair businesses on gate five road. Um, Ian or Angela, Angeline, um, Or what category are they in? |
| 02:04:40.65 | Ian Sobieski | they would be under category three. |
| 02:04:42.74 | Joan Cox | So the car repair businesses are in category three. Can you name us? |
| 02:04:45.88 | Ian Sobieski | name up. Thank you. |
| 02:04:46.39 | Joan Cox | and then, |
| 02:04:46.40 | Ian Sobieski | Thank you. |
| 02:04:46.49 | Joan Cox | of But, You can send analog businesses to the marina, to the boatyard that are analogous, uh, |
| 02:04:52.51 | Charles Melton | I guess. |
| 02:04:56.58 | Joan Cox | that might be also in Category three, the car repair is one of them, |
| 02:05:02.06 | Ian Sobieski | Yeah, I would say like technically like handyman services. So things that handyman services, people that don't fall into category four, the contractor category would typically fall in. Other types of repair services. So like, you know, window repair, other different types of businesses that would fall into that kind of general repair category. And then things that are not directly analogous, but are. in that category that aren't specifically mentioned in those categories would be, like I mentioned, software companies or other types of service based businesses that don't provide like a direct retail transaction. |
| 02:05:36.24 | Joan Cox | Councilmember, may I suggest that if we adopt the motion proposed by the mayor and vice mayor this evening, that we just have staff return to us with a plan for how to treat other businesses. Because Council Member Hoffman mentioned, you know, there is certain licensure required for car repair businesses and other types of businesses. And if HDL, having heard our Commentary this evening. Good evening. can then have time to, and as well as our finance director, can have time to thoughtfully consider what which, if any, other businesses we should treat differently in light of the decision that we've made to uphold the appeal. So upholding the appeal does not set precedent for how we're going to treat other businesses. Give staff the opportunity to thoughtfully consider that and come back to us with a recommended plan. |
| 02:06:32.04 | Joan Cox | that's that is exactly my concern i mean full disclosure i get my boat hauled out at kkmi i thought I thought it was a small enough matter that it didn't require my recusal, but I have a positive business relationship. They run a boatyard that is so clean you could eat off the ground. It is an environment, a testament to sustainable industrial work. It's a point of pride and a jewel to Sausalito in the Bay area. So, you know, I'm torn because I also had to live through the first two years in office when we regularly had people coming here concerned about how they were classified in the business license tax. I was not on the council when you all went from all those categories to just to a couple, but especially when you went to just to a couple, then the difference between them became somewhat material. And it's been a regular ask for two years from people earlier on to just readdress the whole business license tax issue. So I am concerned about whether or not we are setting a precedent and a precedent that would then mean that, you know, we've spent two and a half hours on this, that we would regularly start hearing appeals on the classifications of things. So, you know, I would love to just support Paul and KKMI at both a personal level and as a as a statement of our commitment to the industry, I would like to dredge the channel, which would make a lot bigger difference to the long-term sustainability. |
| 02:07:54.26 | Joan Cox | Let's not vomit. Thank you. |
| 02:07:55.03 | Joan Cox | I was here too much. But honestly, but to wrap that up, I'm just concerned that we're in our earnestness to help. We could be really laying a minefield for us and creating a huge kerfuffle and problem. And so you're the lawyer. So if you think that's not going to happen, maybe I'll defer to it. |
| 02:07:55.88 | Joan Cox | So- |
| 02:08:13.65 | Steven Woodside | Well, it could happen. And let me just say, from my perspective, having read it, I don't think that category three is a catch all. And if it was meant to be a catch-all, it should have been a separate category. He said, if you're not in, specifically in one of these others, you're going to pay the highest rate and whatever the rationale is for that or some other rate. for the catch-alls. I think it's easy to look at this years later and to say those ands mean something. And lawyers are going to argue that It doesn't apply to KKMI. the way it's worded. Now, what's the long-term purpose? What flexibility do we have without going to the voters to make modifications? Those are all important questions. And the fiscal impact that this could be if we somehow think that by the categorization of KKMI is going to undo the whole system, I'd be surprised if it did, but we need to hear from staff and to see what other issues this might raise, but it's the wording that has thrown me from the beginning. Thank you. |
| 02:09:22.75 | Joan Cox | Can I ask a question of our city attorney then? Sure. At that point, you are the advisor to the city. Uh, if we find in KKMI's favor, do we establish a precedent for all the other, uh, Bill yards and the second question I have for you. to process and think about is what do you think that section mean? Is it a cat is category three catch all as written or is it not? |
| 02:09:43.78 | Sergio Rudin | So I did provide the counsel with my email analysis of that language um, via confidential email. And so you do have that. Um, I will say that, you know, the materials that were before the council in 2018 to place this measure on the ballot indicated it was intended to raise close to $900,000 extra per year. And so, you know, the purpose of the business license tax rework was to simplify the categories, but also to significantly increase the tax rates and to generate additional revenue to the city, because I believe at the time the city was facing some concern over, you know, finances. Um, that was the reason that it placed that measure on the ballot along with the TOT measure. With regard to the presidential value, as I've pointed out, earlier, the city should be applying its business license ordinances just the same way it applies to all of its other laws. You have to apply them fairly and equitably to people who are similarly situated. So to the extent that you are you know, making a determination with regards to KKMI, somebody who has a very similar classification of business, would likely argue that they should be treated the same. Um, |
| 02:11:17.11 | Joan Cox | Can I ask a follow-on to that? It doesn't Thank you. the precedential value of the decision we make tonight somewhat depend on the findings upon which we rely in making the decision. If we make findings that say that, you know, KKMI has was initially classified as class one, they were given no notice about the change to class three, They have routinely paid their taxes on time. and therefore were granting their appeal. That doesn't establish precedent for other businesses to necessarily seek. a change in their classification, would you agree? |
| 02:12:02.30 | Sergio Rudin | I agree that, again, the findings that you make matter. And to the extent you are going to make findings, I think that it would make sense to make findings based on the exact kinds of services and the exact kinds of activities that are performed by KKMI and how they relate to a particular category. |
| 02:12:21.78 | Joan Cox | I'm urging against until such time as staff has an opportunity to re-evaluate and recalibrate. Otherwise, every similarly situated business that's... |
| 02:12:21.98 | Sergio Rudin | Bye. |
| 02:12:32.88 | Joan Cox | is in class three could come back and say they belong in class one. So I'm, That's exactly what I'm urging against tonight. Tonight. Does that make sense? That does make sense, yes. Okay, thank you. |
| 02:12:43.29 | Jill Hoffman | Yeah. |
| 02:12:43.31 | Sergio Rudin | That does make sense. |
| 02:12:44.34 | Steven Woodside | Yes. |
| 02:12:44.39 | Sergio Rudin | Okay. |
| 02:12:45.50 | Steven Woodside | So are you suggesting that we simply grant the appeal? |
| 02:12:48.93 | Joan Cox | on the basis that, A, they were reclassified with no notice and no opportunity to... B, they've always paid on time and paid on time. you know, |
| 02:13:02.48 | Joan Cox | Could I ask a question of my comment? |
| 02:13:04.12 | Joan Cox | And C, the city was the one that classified them in category one to begin with. |
| 02:13:04.18 | Joan Cox | and it's not that much. |
| 02:13:04.34 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 02:13:08.50 | Jill Hoffman | But also with the direction to come back to us with further analysis on the categories that we have and another catch-all. Because one of the issues is the catch-all is the highest |
| 02:13:16.93 | Joan Cox | Thank you. Maybe the catch all should be one and not three, for example. |
| 02:13:19.32 | Jill Hoffman | Right. Right. Exactly. But let me just say, we also have this minimum tax category as well. So to the point of, if you don't earn a whole lot, if you're a handyman and you don't earn much or you're very low earner, there is the minimum category, annual tax category. So that's a category. in and of itself that doesn't really merit further discussion. But, um, You know, but so that's like I said, a category in and of itself amongst all three categories. So, but there is, um, but we do need, I think a specific catch all category, perhaps at a higher rate. Um, but not the highest rate. I mean, I think that's something that we're also struggling with. here, that we don't have an actual defined general catch-all category. |
| 02:14:05.46 | Joan Cox | So Ian hadn't finished his comments. I was just, and then you'll get to comment and then I'll get to comment for about |
| 02:14:05.49 | Jill Hoffman | I'm stoked. |
| 02:14:10.98 | Joan Cox | 45 minutes. |
| 02:14:11.60 | Steven Woodside | Okay, no, we've all, we've all, |
| 02:14:13.64 | Joan Cox | He was timed. He was timed. |
| 02:14:15.09 | Steven Woodside | Let's we're all talking civilly about this issue, trying to sort it out. And it's a challenge. Um, Diane, did you want to continue for a moment? |
| 02:14:25.57 | Joan Cox | Thank you. had a question for both of you about and the city attorney about whether a possible outcome legally would be to find to not assess them any penalties or back taxes but still find them in category find the marina businesses as current as the shipyard businesses as currently constituted to be in category three and then to take up the matter of creating modifying our business license tax to add both the shipyard category and take care of any other ambiguity. rather than opening the can of worms establishing a precedent that could unwind and have unintended consequences in our, Thank you. |
| 02:15:04.25 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. I understand your point. Um, my problem is I look at category three and I read it. And it's not a catch-all. That's and I don't necessarily need to say that that's the basis for our emotion. to grant the appeal, but it's out there. It's out there. People can see how it's read, how it's how it reads. And, um, There is no overall catch-all. in the, in the ordinance, just a general catch all, which it's easy to say now. And you're right. It could open up a can of worms if we're not careful. You're exactly right. But how do we say Thank you. that they should be in category three. the way it's written. I can't do that. Maybe others can, and that's fine, but I'm not able to read it that way. |
| 02:16:02.98 | Melissa Blaustein | Oh, Matilda was ahead of me. |
| 02:16:05.40 | Steven Woodside | Yeah, I'm sorry. |
| 02:16:06.97 | Melissa Blaustein | Thank you. |
| 02:16:06.99 | Jill Hoffman | Yeah, I'll go ahead. Yeah, as I read the categories, I think, for reasons that I, you know, can reiterate that this KK, might at least it just fits more If it's they're all awkward, if it's more awkwardly in category one. that, um, it conducts retail, the sale of goods to ultimate consumers, you know, and it says in here usually in small quantities. Okay. I guess it's less than 70% under our staff report and looking at their profit and loss, it's less than maybe less than their majority of their business, but it's still an integral part of their business. Like they do repairs and they do parts as part of their repairs. I mean, that's just what they do. Um, And manufacturing is also part of category one. They manufacture as they go. They do repairs and they're manufacturing as they go. That's just part of what they do. includes every person conducting or carrying on. On a business consisting of manufacturing, packing, or processing goods, whereas the merchandising commodities at a fixed place within the city. That's their boatyard. That's the best definition of their boatyard. If it's much better. than the services under category three. And so I find that just as a finding that it fits better under category one, the category three. I'm disappointed that HDL didn't have a meaningful discussion with KKMI when they asked for it. Whatever the reason for the failure. They should have had, you know, sat down with them and listened to them. And that didn't appear to happen. And that's disappointing that that didn't happen. This might have been cleared up at that point. I don't think that a decision tonight, as has been described by... um that we've kind of worked through um in our resolution i think that's fine for tonight i don't think that that is gonna um That's going to create a troubling precedent for us, but it also signals that we're looking to revisit this. And I think we talked about it before, and I've said it repeatedly. we might want to look at a special marine category. We've got two special categories in our code right now that we carved out. Um, you know, proactively when we created this contractors i mean we gave contractors a special break from the jump and i think that was probably a good idea because we wanted to support contractors and building in sausalito For whatever reason, we didn't do that for our marine industry, and we probably want to do that. That's two dollars per thousand gross receipts, and we might want to do that for our marine businesses, or we might want to leave them at a dollar, as is the general category under category one. I don't know, but that's what we want our staff to look at. So for tonight, I'm okay with doing a motion for the original category that KKMI was in, Um, and, uh, and, um, and grant the appeal on the on the penalties. And so I think that's a standalone resolution for tonight and to look at it further in the future. |
| 02:19:02.88 | Melissa Blaustein | I was next. I haven't. Go ahead. Sorry, I just... First, I just want to acknowledge that I know there was a lot of time and hard work from our new finance director in reviewing this. And this is your first time working on an audit like this with regards to Sausalito City Code, which, as you have probably come to understand, can be somewhat complex given the diversity of the type of businesses that we represent. And I think it's clear based on the feedback tonight how much we really do truly cherish our maritime businesses. And perhaps we do need, and I actually absolutely believe we do need a more specific tax code that allows our maritime businesses to thrive. And we should be working towards, if further businesses do come out of the woodwork as a result of this appeal, as much fairness for our business community as possible. So if that means that all of our maritime businesses want to fall under the same umbrella, then we should find a path forward where we can enable that, because I think it's really critical that we continue to support them. With regards to the finding for why I think it still remains in Category 1, I think I sort of pushed this forward when I said, you know, Is there anything in the code specifically where it gives a percentage as it might relate to each of these items? For example, if it's more than 30% of services, then are we automatically going to category three? And since there is no clear classification for that, what I think is immediately obvious to me is that KKMI is a boatyard and they do a significant amount of things like manufacturing and small quantities of creating retail goods and sales. So to me, it's just the most obvious and clear fit here. It doesn't mean our work is done in terms of what we're doing right or wrong, for these categories in our tax code. The fact that this came forward as an example of that. And I appreciate that HDL again is trying to do their job with a random audit. And again, I would say that our our community is complex in terms of the diversity of businesses and the functions in which they operate and we are fortunate to have a working waterfront that continues to operate and a working requires a more specific and perhaps different type of approach to our tax codes. So with that in mind, I'm going to grant the appeal, and I appreciate the... considerations of Councilmember Sobieski very much. And I respect your economic prowess very much and your concern for us to be generating revenue, because as we talk about on a regular basis, there's a serious need for that for a variety of reasons. And I believe if we continue this conversation, and think about what businesses best fit into each category, we will eventually come out in the best possible fiscal position because this code, which passed before any of us, except, I guess, Councilmember Hoffman and Councilmember Cox were on the dais at the time, was created in order to establish over $900,000 of additional tax revenue annually while making processes more simple for businesses. What we consistently hear and learn is that there is more work to do in terms of supporting businesses and making things more simple and straightforward for them. But I am happy to support the the motion made by our mayor. And I agree with my colleagues here on the dais. |
| 02:22:08.35 | Joan Cox | Thank you. So I was on the planning commission when KKMI came to Sausalito and I was one of the members who voted. in favor of their application. And there was concern because as Yeah. Babette mentioned Anderson's was indeed well-loved. However, Anderson's was challenged with uh, Hmm. Thank you. polluting the Bay, shall we say. And so we really looked forward to welcoming KKMI, who already had a successful business in Richmond. And indeed, expectation has been borne out. And so it's been a pleasure to see the work that they've done, including, you know, raising their pavement, building closures, so that any work they do on boats has no chance of reaching the bay, even in times of great storm and wind. And so I also endorse the mayor's motion. I note that staff is correct. We did adopt the business license tax because we had not updated our business license tax in decades and there was a need to bring the rates that we were charging more current with our neighbors. And we looked to see what did the county do? What did our neighboring city Mill Valley do? And I think that's a good thing. that we were charging more current with our neighbors. And we looked to see what did the county do? What did our neighboring city, Mill Valley, do? And we relied on some of that data, assembled by our then Communities Development Director, Lily Whalen, to make sure that we were able categorize and identify what we hoped were appropriate rates. Oddly enough, this was on our agenda last year, on our future agenda items last year, was to revisit BLT. Because as Council Member Sobieski mentioned, this is an issue that has been raised by various businesses over time. And we have felt a need to recalibrate the manner in which we charge the taxes. I note that we did achieve our goal with respect to KKMI because they were paying a dollar per or $4 per $10,000 worth of revenue, I think the city attorney said. And we raised that to $1 per $1,000 of revenue. And so we did impose an increased rate upon them, even at the lowest rate within our chart. But I do welcome the opportunity and I hope our direction tonight will be for staff to come back to us in having worked with HDL and having taken into account our comments this evening to propose to us how best to recalibrate the amounts that we charge certain of our service providing businesses. Thank you. |
| 02:25:13.69 | Steven Woodside | Were you prepared to vote? |
| 02:25:17.07 | Joan Cox | Yeah, I mean, I am persuaded by, you know, I have a great deal of respect for my colleagues, especially the lawyers that, integrate all this and having read the with the email that Sergio sent to us. So I'm inclined to vote yes also to provide unanimity, mostly personally, just because I want to make sure that Paul and that team knows how much we appreciate them. They are a jewel in our waterfront and our waterfront industrial maritime, uh, Businesses need all the help that they can get. So if the proposal was to change the tax rate category for shipyards, I'd be voting yes on that. However, I'm voting with a great deal of trepidation because I'm worried about even I am conflating my appreciation for KKMI and that kind of business with the unintended consequences of, of, doing it in this particular way. It does seem to me that staff has consistently put boatyards in category three from the inception. It's not a case of one boatyard being treated differently than another. And so we're at this very late date, many years later. going to be changing the classifications for boatyards because we just discovered it. 14 years after we started charging them in a particular way. And, uh, And that makes me uncomfortable about what's going to happen with car repair yards and others that will say that we haven't been treated equitably either. So I have a lot of trepidation voting yes, but I'm going to, uh, to match because I'm influenced by my colleagues and to say thanks to KKMI. |
| 02:26:54.03 | Steven Woodside | Understood. I could say more, but it won't. Let's have a vote. Roll call. Sorry. |
| 02:27:01.03 | Walfred Solorzano | Councilmember Cox? Thank you. |
| 02:27:02.20 | Joan Cox | Thank you. |
| 02:27:02.21 | Walfred Solorzano | Yes. Chancellor Hoffman? Yes. Chancellor Member Sobieski. Yes. Vice Mayor Blaustein. |
| 02:27:07.87 | Joan Cox | Thank you. |
| 02:27:07.88 | Walfred Solorzano | Yes. |
| 02:27:09.42 | Steven Woodside | Yes. Thank you. This did take a long time, but I know It's a serious issue and we're not finished with the issue going forward. And thanks to all of you in the audience for waiting patiently through all of this. We have more business to take care of. Just going to ask my colleagues, does anyone need a break at this point? |
| 02:27:33.11 | Joan Cox | Five minutes, yeah. |
| 02:27:34.14 | Steven Woodside | So how about five minute break and then we'll come back and. get through the business part, remaining business items. Thank you. |
| 02:27:42.48 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:27:43.03 | Unknown | AND CERTAIN STATIONS |
| 02:27:43.96 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:27:44.03 | Unknown | We're coming back into session. |
| 02:27:44.17 | Steven Woodside | We're coming back into session. |
| 02:27:45.78 | Unknown | and then, |
| 02:27:47.32 | Steven Woodside | And while we're doing so, I just announced that |
| 02:27:47.83 | Unknown | we're doing so just announce that |
| 02:27:53.01 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:27:54.17 | Steven Woodside | Okay. |
| 02:27:54.49 | Unknown | Okay. |
| 02:27:56.42 | Steven Woodside | Okay. I get to bang the gavel now. We're back in session. Um, We're going to take item 5B, but just for your own information, for information, |
| 02:28:05.58 | Natalie Butts | be but just |
| 02:28:09.49 | Steven Woodside | D. we are going to table and not take up tonight. If you really must speak to that item, When we get to 5D, we'll ask for public comment, but we will not be acting on that item tonight or hearing a full report. So 5C. Mr. McGowan. |
| 02:28:28.07 | Kevin McGowan | Good evening, Mayor, members of the Council. I'm Kevin McCown, Public Works Director for Sausalito. I think it's B this evening. Correct. Excellent. We have a little bit of a here tonight, too. Someone has their mic. |
| 02:28:33.62 | Steven Woodside | No. |
| 02:28:37.61 | Steven Woodside | Correct? |
| 02:28:47.33 | Kevin McGowan | Maybe. So... a little better? Just so everybody can hear. So yes, item 5B, it relates to the Coloma Street sidewalk project and we have a presentation for you. In the audience this evening, I have Andrew Lee from Parametrics, who has joined us, who is a traffic engineer. We also have Chief Matt Barnes here from Southern Marin Fire. And... That's going to be important in a minute when I kind of run through the presentation. So per the request of one of the council members, we are returning to the council to report with a report related to the Coloma Street sidewalk project. We had a public meeting last week on Thursday, the 26th. That meeting was well attended and very informative for staff and the consultant team. We also received a few emails correspondence regarding the project, and I hope to cover some of those comments in the presentation. Now, our staff report was written before we had that meeting last week. So we've got some updated information for you, and I think I'll work my way through it in the presentation as well. So my recommendations in the staff report are going to change slightly. Next slide, please. Great. So first, I'd like to update, do a little refresher on the Coloma Street project. The Coloma Street sidewalk improvement project includes the installation of a sidewalk along the north side of Coloma Street, as well as improvements at the end of ebb tide as it connects to the new village school site. We started this project with a Safe Routes to School grant in 2020, and the work to acquire that grant started long before that as well. So this is a longstanding project with folks from Safe Routes to School helping us through this process to identify funding. Next slide, please. The work on Coloma Street is related, is relatively simple with the installation of a sidewalk that connects the existing sidewalk from Bridgeway on Olima, from Bridgeway to Olima. the sidewalk from MLK entrance to Ulima was added in the last few years based off requests from the community itself. The mid-block, there is a mid-block crossing proposed at the Tamala Street pathway connection as well. Next slide. The project includes planters adjacent to the field, which can accommodate trees and shrubs, Based on comments received last week, our design team is including a long planter strip area that connects all of these together, those little squares in the exhibit on the screen. that can accommodate both trees and plants adjacent to the field. We are recommending a type of tree called Crate Myrtle. trees in this area with additional shrubs to be selected in the future probably with some assistance from Sausalito Beautiful. Uh, signage and striping is also included as well. Next slide, please. The project includes a mid-block crossing at the end of the Tomala Street pathway, which is a dirt pathway. We also are trying to include a rectangular rapid flashing beacon, or two of them. Um, those, those are called RRFBs. It's just easier to say. Um, these are generally activated by a person crossing the street and they are solar powered. There's no electricity that you have to get a separate meter for them. Next slide. For this project, we also looked into alternative lighting for this crosswalk, such as in-pavement lighting. I'll cover this a little bit later, but I just want to mention that we did look into this. Next slide. In addition to the work on Coloma, the project includes improvements at the end of Ebb Tide, near the New Village School entrance. Next slide, please. The school approached the city regarding their concerns related to access. And as a result, the design was implemented to provide additional access from the north side of Ebtide towards the school. Now, from these diagrams, it might be a little difficult to take a look at. But the idea was to obviously improve the access for kids who are traveling in that direction anyway. This section of Ebtide is currently a cul-de-sac, and that plays into it when you take a look at possibly raising the crosswalks themselves. Additional striping, crosswalk improvements, accessibility improvements, and other items are included with this work. It is our understanding that the representatives from the New Village School have requested that the crosswalk be raised. DPW doesn't have an objection to this. PD does not have an objection to this. And it's our understanding, since it is a cul-de-sac, that Southern Marine Fire also doesn't have an objection to this either, because there's no high speed traveling across it. Um, our, Our only concern would be to take a look at drainage to make sure things drain correctly. Is this ebtide or coloma? |
| 02:34:11.65 | Joan Cox | referring to you |
| 02:34:12.29 | Kevin McGowan | Thank you. |
| 02:34:12.34 | Joan Cox | Thank you. |
| 02:34:12.48 | Kevin McGowan | Thank you. |
| 02:34:12.51 | Joan Cox | Thank you. |
| 02:34:12.54 | Kevin McGowan | I'm sorry. |
| 02:34:12.56 | Joan Cox | Dr. McGowan. |
| 02:34:13.12 | Kevin McGowan | I believe I'm talking about ebb tight. This is ebb tight. Next slide, please. Staff presented an item to the council in December 2025. The budget is approximately 1.5 million for the project, and that budget hasn't changed at this point in time. Next slide, please. At the December 2025 meeting, the council directed staff to address several additional issues, which related to this project. I'm going to run through these, each one individually. Next slide, please. Bioretention is the first one on the list. Originally, we anticipated using a small planter strip along the edge of the roadway to incorporate the bioretention, which means filtering stormwater before it goes out to the bay. BKF, our engineer on this project, went through an exercise to review this to determine the size needed to treat the stormwater in this area and found that a larger area would be needed than available. within the road with him. Sorry, let me back up. A larger area would be needed than what's available within the road right of If we were to install such a device, it would need to encroach into the MLK field area, which is outside the scope of this project. Encroachment into the park may require compliance with ordinance 1128, Based on this criteria and the current budget, which we would exceed if we had to do that, staff is not recommending pursuing a bioretention system with this project. Next slide, please. At the December meeting, the council brought up some concerns related to the current maintenance and site distance at the corner of Lima and Coloma. Our maintenance staff has trimmed a lot of this vegetation. We removed some slats in the, and the tennis court area, and have improved the sight distance here specifically. We had some complaints about this, which is always not surprising. But these plants will grow back. They are privets, and they'll grow back very quickly. So our staff will place this on an annual maintenance project and we'll get to this at least each year, if not sooner. So we'll keep an eye on it. the intersection of Olima has one stop sign. Based on council's direction, we have reached out to our traffic consultant to perform a warrant study. of the intersection determine if the other two legs of the intersection needs stop signs. In order to extubate this work, we anticipate that the warrant study to be completed within the next couple of weeks, And if that study suggests that a stop sign is needed, we can install that very quickly. We didn't want to couple it with a major project because we didn't want to delay the stop sign installation if it's warranted. Um, All right, next slide, please. All right, here we get into some interesting things. Members of the public have requested that that the new mid block crossing on Coloma, be a raised crosswalk. This means that the crosswalk itself is about three to six inches higher than the roadway. There are advantages and disadvantages for installing such a device. Staff reached out to emergency services regarding this type of device. Police Department has no objections to it. And since the preparation of this staff report, We've talked to Matt Barnes and Southern Marin Fire who are willing to work with us on installing such a device in this location. However, Um, If we're going to install this, They can't have wheel lines in it. So, In different parts of Marin County, which I'm gonna cover in a little bit, Um, Some speed humps have wheel lines in it so emergency services can get through it. We can't do that with a crosswalk by itself. So we'll need to work with our Southern Marine fire folks to try to address this. There are some other issues associated with this, and some of them I've included in the staff report as advantages and disadvantages. And we want to keep that in mind when we put in a speed hump or something that's not expected, we could have cars that bought them out. We could have bicyclists that aren't anticipating them, or we could have, um, I have a longer story, which I won't share with the council this evening, but you could, um, you could have as, as larger vehicles cross over an elevated platform, they tend to vibrate the surface. And when they do that, they could vibrate the the adjacent buildings as well. And you have to keep that in mind. For this crossing, rectangular rapid flashing beacons are proposed, which, like I said before, which is a yellow activated flashing light, Some folks at that meeting last week didn't like these and they said, no, we don't, we don't really want them because they're going to be flashing too much. Well, We're going to have this. This is anticipated to be activated when the kids cross the street in the morning and the evening. That's not to say that they won't be activated at other times as well, especially when we're anticipating having more development in this area. And I think as you really recall, our planning director is looking into developing more areas for housing. And one of them is close to this site. So next slide, please. Trying to move fairly quickly here. Um, And I'll just cover one more thing that I missed on the last slide, but that's all right. Uh, In pavement lighting is not necessarily a good deal. We've seen these in many years past, uh, areas in Marin County that tried utilizing these and they eventually took them out because they, they're susceptible to a lot of wear and tear. Changing the light bulbs on them is quite difficult by itself. And in addition, they need a dedicated electrical source. They can't be run by solar. So in this particular case, we would not suggest doing in-pavement lighting. It's just a maintenance issue for the city. And even 10 years down the line, when we, if, we resurface this roadway, they would have to be removed so that we resurface and then put them back in. So at this point we don't suggest using in-pavement lighting. Next slide, thank you. As noted in the staff report, City Council authorizes the installation of traffic control devices such as stop signs. The city's engineering division utilizes the California Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices, another lovely acronym called MUTCD. This is used to develop a standardized process that details whether a stop sign is warranted at a specific location. This guideline which is recognized statewide provides criteria known as warrants that justify whether a stop sign or other traffic control device is needed on a street. This is a data-driven type of analysis. There are small All items that can be subjective, but generally it's all driven by data, how much traffic goes across, whether there's accidents here, that type of thing. The intent of utilizing the MUTCD is to provide the council with justification for the installation of a traffic control device that are standardized so that you're coming from out of town. You're not surprised by something different in Sausalito. The council can choose to direct staff to install a stop sign per the municipal code chapter 1504050. However, citations or violations in this area may not be enforceable without a warrant study. So you want to keep that in mind. Next slide, please. The MUTCD is a large manual And the section noted here and shown on this slide on the top portion, I know I can't even read that, um, is a small part which just lists the warrants associated with stop devices. As noted here in the language stated in the Sausalito Municipal Code as well, you have the ability to say, I want to put a stop sign in as well. That's in your code. During the public meeting last week, the design team noted The concerns associated with the raised crosswalk on Coloma as well. I think I've covered that already. Um, There are some alternatives, but We could put in some speed humps here before you get to that mid block crossing. And that could accommodate a fire truck as far as wheel lines. So there are different alternatives to raising, to erase crosswalk. We have had a couple comments from the public, and I'm gonna cover that in a second too. Next slide, please. All right. Um, The meeting last week also brought up a few additional items. One of them being the planter strip, which I mentioned, that we can basically put in all the trees that we need to, as well as planting, and make it a nicer looking area. Some of the members of the public want the adjacent fence next to the field itself replaced. So at MLK, that old fence is looking kind of old, so to speak. Some don't want a chain link fence, but in the meeting, they weren't specific on what type of fencing they wanted either. So, At this point, the fence itself wasn't in our scope. We can add it if you would like us to. some of the members of the public on that last meeting, they wanted speed humps or a raised crosswalk. And you may have had a couple emails from residents who had mentioned this. The new improvements will be will give the excuse me, the new improvements on Coloma will give the perspective that the road is being narrowed because you're putting in a new sidewalk here. So you do have some traffic calming effects to this area with the current design, even without the speed humps or a raised crosswalk. The audience that evening, let's see. Oh yeah, in the audience, we also have Andrew Lee from Parametrics who could answer some technical questions associated with, let's say a warden study, or even taking a look at the mid block crossing as well. So Um, The design team currently is finishing up the plan, specs, and estimate for the project. And we'd like to be able to move forward with getting this thing out to bid fairly soon. Obviously, our construction window is this summertime. We can definitely bring it back to the council as far as maybe a consent item for approval to get this out to bid. But the couple issues that we're facing have to do what I brought up. A mid-block crossing that is raised. Do we want that at this point in time, we'll have to work with our fire department to see if they can live with some device like that without wheel runs that run through them. And then if not. Does the council want us to pursue speed humps in this area as well? To me, those are the two main questions. Well, the stop signs at Coloma and Olima will be pursued separately. And I think we're incorporating what the school wants over on the entrance to New Village School as well. So that concludes my presentation and I welcome your questions and comments. |
| 02:46:35.23 | Steven Woodside | So questions of Mr. McGowan, McGowan, I suggest that we be disciplined. We've got a lot of people in the audience who would like to be heard as well, but start off. |
| 02:46:46.75 | Joan Cox | Thank you. Thank you. Hi, Director McGowan. Thank you. Tonight, could the city council just direct staff to put a four-way stop at Lima? |
| 02:46:55.58 | Kevin McGowan | Can the council do that? Yes, I believe so. |
| 02:46:58.09 | Joan Cox | We could just do that tonight, skip the warrant bit, just say, put stop signs there. That's within our authority. |
| 02:47:02.90 | Kevin McGowan | Yes, but as your city engineer, I would recommend you do a warrant study regardless so that you determine that this is needed or not. Why? Because from a legal perspective, you want to have that backup documentation for the city and for our police department if they enforce that. |
| 02:47:23.36 | Joan Cox | If we direct tonight to do the stop sign at a Lima, the four way stop sign and do the warrant study and the warrant study comes back In the negative, do we have to take the stop side down? |
| 02:47:34.00 | Kevin McGowan | I think we would need to discuss that with our traffic engineer at that point in time. Maybe Andrew can step up and answer that question for us. |
| 02:47:47.08 | Andrew Lee | Good evening, counsel. Andrew Lee, senior traffic engineer with Parametrics. I'm a licensed civil and traffic engineer, traffic operations engineer. Parametrics used to be Parisi Transportation Consulting. We've been working in Marin for 20 years. Personally, I've been here for 12 years. To respond to your question, the California Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Advices, MUTCD, dictates some hard standards. And then it's relatively soft in other more subjective areas. And with regard to Installing stop signs, it's actually relatively soft. It says that there's a lot of unique characteristics for an intersection and that Engineering study has to be the determining factor for whether always stop control is the most appropriate treatment. So I want to highlight that while stop sign control is very familiar, most of us are aware of it and know of it. The MUTCD has a much larger toolbox at our disposal, and it addresses elements such as improving the site distance by trimming the vegetation so that people are able to see oncoming traffic, such as what the public works department has already done. There's other alternative treatments such as installing warning signs so that people have an expectation that they should stop or excuse me, slow down rather than making a full stop. So I want to just highlight that there's a large toolbox at the city's disposal. |
| 02:49:07.32 | Joan Cox | Thank you. |
| 02:49:07.37 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:49:07.39 | Joan Cox | Thank you. |
| 02:49:16.11 | Joan Cox | Thank you. I know you're an expert. I know there are a lot of ways to achieve a goal, but my question was narrow, whether the city council had the authority here tonight to direct that a four-way stop sign be put there. I think the answer was yes. My question is if we then do a warrant study If we have you do a study and you can't justify having a sign there based on your analysis, are we obliged to take that stop sign down or can we leave it there? |
| 02:49:41.12 | Andrew Lee | I would invite the city attorneys to chime in, but I think that the city would be at legal risk if there is a collision, because the engineering study provides a recommendation that, um, runs contrary to what the city council is directed. |
| 02:50:02.20 | Sergio Rudin | Yeah, so I will comment on this. The California Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices and the regular is basically adopted by regulations made by Caltrans. the city must comply with the requirements in the California MUTCD. fortunately in this instance, the California MUTCD says that a warrants analysis is not substitute for engineering judgment. And so, My recommendation is that the council not erect a stop sign unless it's supported by either a warrants analysis called out for in the California MUTCD or supported by a traffic engineer's opinion that a stop sign is warranted in that location based on their professional evaluation. So either of those issues would address the risk management concerns that are being highlighted here. |
| 02:50:56.49 | Joan Cox | So you're saying city attorney that we shouldn't direct to the stop side we put there absent technical adjudication by an |
| 02:51:06.22 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. |
| 02:51:07.41 | Joan Cox | Either a foreign study or an engineering study. |
| 02:51:07.57 | Joan Cox | Yeah. |
| 02:51:07.62 | Steven Woodside | It is. |
| 02:51:07.67 | Joan Cox | I'm not sure. |
| 02:51:09.38 | Steven Woodside | I think it's twofold. It's the warrant study or the judgment of a professional engineer, such as you, saying that a stop sign is appropriate. |
| 02:51:09.51 | Joan Cox | I think |
| 02:51:19.62 | Andrew Lee | That's correct. And the process would be that the engineer perform the analysis and based on the findings, offer our professional judgment as to whether it's appropriate. They are tied to each other. |
| 02:51:32.90 | Steven Woodside | And the legal risk, city attorney, is that if we don't have that, we don't have design immunity and other defenses in the event of an accident. |
| 02:51:42.45 | Sergio Rudin | I think you would potentially have design immunity. I would recommend the council or a I think, a city employee with delegated authority to prove the design, approve the design. So, but that would not necessarily immunize you from other theories of a dangerous condition of public property claim. So again, I think having something in your pocket, whether it's the warrants analysis or a professional engineer's judgment that a traffic stop sign there is warranted would certainly help the city in any sort of liability cases. |
| 02:52:17.45 | Joan Cox | But I think we have to use a little common sense here. Because we're now putting in stop signs where none exist to avoid having folks dashing down Olema Street and passing through an intersection that school children utilize and that the elderly utilize without stopping. And instead, we're putting a four-way stop sign there to force anybody coming from any direction to stop before they proceed. So I'm having a hard time discerning how we would increase our liability by requiring people rushing down the hill to stop at the foot of the hill before turning or proceeding. And so for me, especially because this is a route for school children. And so I don't understand how we could possibly be potentially increasing liability when what we're doing is helping the neighbors. We have neighbors up and down, and I live on Olima Street, who put out little animated figures saying, slow down. And, you know, we have the police putting up a machine that tells you how fast you're going to urge you to slow down. So this is something that neighbors have been clamoring for, for years. And so to not take into account the colloquial and experiential evidence of the need for this, and instead to rely on some bureaucratic requirement that that could result in us not imposing an important safety requirement or safety device seems incongruous to me, would you agree? |
| 02:54:14.68 | Steven Woodside | I was waiting for the question. |
| 02:54:19.68 | Andrew Lee | So Let me try to offer a scenario where, well, for one, let me start with this. The California MUTCD specifically dictates as a hard standard that stop signs shall not be used as a traffic control device. Okay, so if that is indeed the intent, That is strictly prohibited by the manual. Number two is Why would always stop control actually increase your potential liability? That's a great question. And the reason behind that is for traffic control signage relies on people respecting the traffic control device and the city having the authority to enforce the traffic control device. And I would go with the first argument being the more important one, which is if the city installs a traffic control device for which people encountering the device, either do not expect it or do not respect it, then the usefulness of that device goes down precipitously. And that is not only a risk for the person encountering the device, but it's also a significant risk for the people relying on intersecting traffic to respect the device. So the scenario is, We have a crossing, but it doesn't look very much like a crossing. It's overgrown. It's dark. There's no markings across the intersection, but nonetheless, it is a crossing for the community. And so people directed a stop sign, it's kind of hard to see. There's no advanced signage, but nonetheless, people are crossing. Well, People driving. Perhaps don't see the sign, don't encounter enough traffic during the day to think, oh yes, this is a reason for me to stop. They go through the intersection. They make a full stop. There's nobody around. They keep going. The next time, they roll the stop. The next time, they go a little bit faster. But when somebody who is walking older person, child, thinking that oncoming traffic is going to respect the sign And these people end up not respecting the sign, that |
| 02:56:26.04 | Joan Cox | the potential liability. But again, you're not familiar with this intersection. This intersection, you're either the only The only people going through the sign on Coloma would be people entering into a senior community Otherwise, you're going to be making a turn. And so it's, again, people coming down Coloma or down Olima are often turning onto Coloma. People coming up Coloma are, very few of them are going straight. Most of them are turning, which requires them to slow. It's the people going through Thank you. down Olima and then back up Olima. And Waze, our navigation system, frequently diverts people who are not accustomed to the neighborhood to avoid the buildup on Bridgeway and to use the parallel side streets. And so, again, I would hope that if you were to go examine and survey this intersection, you could provide us an engineer's opinion that, given the utility of the system, given the usage of the system, that stop signs would be. helpful. |
| 02:57:40.42 | Andrew Lee | That is precisely the intent of the engineering study. And I have inspected this intersection. |
| 02:57:46.18 | Joan Cox | Do you think a stop sign is warranted? |
| 02:57:48.03 | Andrew Lee | I haven't conducted the full study. In fact, we collected traffic counts earlier this week. We are expecting that data shortly and we'll see how it all shakes out. |
| 02:58:04.79 | Steven Woodside | Seeing no other questions from the diocese. |
| 02:58:07.05 | Joan Cox | a question. Director McGowan, you have said that you want to treat the stop sign separately from the rest of the Coloma Street project so that you don't delay the rest of the Coloma Street project. in making the decision about the stop sign. Is that right? |
| 02:58:20.67 | Kevin McGowan | Yeah. I don't want to delay the installation of the stop signs. |
| 02:58:23.76 | Joan Cox | So will you... So, may I ask that if the engineering study, for some odd, non-common sense reason, determines that stop signs are not needed, will you please bring it back to us so that we can weigh in? Absolutely. then we're good, you'll have our direction to install the stop signs. |
| 02:58:45.97 | Kevin McGowan | If that is your direction this evening, yes. Thank you. |
| 02:58:48.75 | Melissa Blaustein | Thank you. I just want to reiterate, I know you mentioned this in your presentation, but we did receive a lot of correspondence about the fence specifically. Is it going to add any sort of significant cost if we just take the fence down? |
| 02:59:02.94 | Kevin McGowan | We can, you get a ball field right next to it. So the, the foul balls off to the right-hand side. might hit something. |
| 02:59:10.52 | Joan Cox | Yeah, you don't want their houses right across the street. Thank you. |
| 02:59:13.66 | Melissa Blaustein | Boom. And then the other question we got or concern from a lot of neighbors and correspondents, and I know you heard this at the listening session, was with regard to ensuring that we keep the streets clean during the construction and that there is some follow up from the from the folks who are engaging in the construction that the waste is checked on a daily basis so that folks aren't driving home and encountering He drinks. Yep. |
| 02:59:37.62 | Kevin McGowan | I think that has to do with the construction equipment that was stored there recently. |
| 02:59:42.09 | Melissa Blaustein | Okay, so you don't anticipate that being a concern as we engage in the process? |
| 02:59:45.47 | Kevin McGowan | You know... It's managing those contractors. So we'll do our best to manage them. Okay, thank you. |
| 02:59:53.35 | Steven Woodside | Another question? |
| 02:59:58.01 | Jill Hoffman | follow-up on the fence as well. And my question on the fence was, and I think it was the same line, but The condition of the fence, there's nothing, the condition of the fence is fine. It's not damaged or anything. It's not leaning over. It's the condition. It's still upright at 90 degree angle. |
| 03:00:16.08 | Kevin McGowan | Thank you. |
| 03:00:16.35 | Jill Hoffman | Right. |
| 03:00:17.08 | Kevin McGowan | As far as I know, yeah, there might be some that are undulating a little bit, but yeah. |
| 03:00:20.60 | Jill Hoffman | Yeah. Thank you. But I think your point was correct. It's right next to the ball field. It keeps the balls in the park and things like that. But I think I think our one of our planning commissioners wrote in and provided a piece of public comment about and I think he talked about the fence and maybe some beautification issues on the fence. And I know that there are certain ways that you can beautify fences with plantings and vines and growing vines and fences. And I was wondering, and maybe paint colors and things like that. I agree, chain link fence isn't a beautiful, It's not a way, but the utility of the fence and the height of the fence, I think is needed because it's right next to the park, right? And it keeps the balls inside the park to a certain extent. But I think there are ways that we can beautify the fence with different ways. And I would like to look at that in the least expensive ways that we can possibly do it. I know that there are other communities that I've seen. weigh in on that to any extent that I can. I've seen it in other communities the way they've done it, and I know that we can do it. There's ways to do it. |
| 03:01:24.41 | Kevin McGowan | That's great input. We'll include it as a bid alternative then. |
| 03:01:24.42 | Jill Hoffman | That's great. Yeah, or is it an incidental or something? I don't know. Thank you. Thank you, Kevin, for your help on this. I appreciate it. |
| 03:01:31.70 | Kevin McGowan | Thank you. |
| 03:01:37.82 | Steven Woodside | I have a public comment. three cards and there may be others who wish to speak. Uh, first, uh, Mark Palmer. |
| 03:01:53.48 | Mark Palmer | Good evening again. Mayor Woodside. Council members. Thank you for the opportunity to comment. I'm glad to see there's some reconsideration of the bioretention area. The staff notes that the area cleans the stormwater before it enters the bay. that the basin was considered unworkable, because it would exceed the available space and encroach it on the park. A planter strip has been proposed tonight. But I don't think that quite goes far enough. A stormwater feature for the sidewalk project should be designed treat runoff from Columbus Street's impervious service Our preferred option is a linear stormwater tree trench system It's a long, narrow subsurface trench under the sidewalk or planting strips. Street runoff enters through small curb openings. filters through engineered soil and drains out only when needed. A treat... trench fits within four to six feet of width avoiding any park encroachment provides full bioretention performance. supports healthier street trees, and is widely used in cities where space is limited. It delivers the storm water quality and flooding control benefits that we want. but in a form factor that actually fits the Coloma corridor. Because the city will design and construct the sidewalk, curbs, and gutters, The tree trench system can fit naturally into the same construction envelope. I respectfully ask the council to direct staff to evaluate a tree trench system for Coloma Street runoff and request a revised concept layout, showing how it avoids park encroachment while preserving bioretention benefits. Sausalito should be a city that absorbs and cleans its stormwater not one that sends its untreated runoff directly to the bay when modern solutions are available. Thank you. |
| 03:03:46.71 | Steven Woodside | Just briefly, Mr. Palmer, have you communicated this idea to the Public Works Department? |
| 03:03:54.53 | Mark Palmer | Yes, I had a conversation with Mr. Davidson, and we spoke directly about this process, yes. Thank you. |
| 03:04:03.05 | Steven Woodside | Okay. |
| 03:04:03.28 | Mark Palmer | Bye. |
| 03:04:03.33 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. |
| 03:04:03.39 | Mark Palmer | Thank you. |
| 03:04:03.54 | Joan Cox | And what was the response? |
| 03:04:06.32 | Steven Woodside | Was there a response given to you at that time? |
| 03:04:09.34 | Mark Palmer | uh, only that it would be considered. |
| 03:04:13.73 | Steven Woodside | Mr McGowan. While we're on this point, I think it's an important one that we here. |
| 03:04:19.60 | Kevin McGowan | Yeah, I do have Mr. Davidson is here this evening and It can be done. It's gonna be more expensive to put in something like that. with the scupper holes underneath the sidewalk. We will investigate it and see if we can include it as well. |
| 03:04:34.96 | Joan Cox | Thank you. |
| 03:04:34.99 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. |
| 03:04:35.48 | Kevin McGowan | Can I ask a related question? |
| 03:04:36.78 | Joan Cox | Sure. It's you and Mr. Davidson. Do you have any landscape architecture help on some of these questions, the direction of some of the directions? |
| 03:04:46.32 | Kevin McGowan | The directions of some of the directors? |
| 03:04:47.48 | Joan Cox | of some of the directions he just... I said maybe, and I forgot how this, you know, what the structure of it is. I literally just don't know. Do you have a landscape architect that you can use the same way you're using parametrics for traffic that can help with some of these questions? Let's see. |
| 03:05:04.35 | Kevin McGowan | Sorry, Andy. He's right behind me. |
| 03:05:06.43 | Andy Davidson | So our design team includes a landscape architect who has made the recommendations for the trees. So moving forward with a strip, whether it's a planting strip or it goes on with a stormwater pollution prevention system at the back of the sidewalk. we would need planting recommendations from them. Who is that? I believe they're called Integra. |
| 03:05:27.51 | Joan Cox | But no, a little bit just about their scope of their assignment, because, you know, landscape is about more than just trees and plantings. It's kind of the whole cross section, the whole project. Is that person's scope of work include that or is it just their scope was planting? So I guess that's the kind of question I just am wondering, because some of this feedback has to do with trade-offs and integration, and I'm just wondering there's a, a benefit perhaps of having a more holistic engagement with a landscape architect. question. |
| 03:05:59.03 | Andy Davidson | Thank you. If that's the direction we certainly can, that will increase their scope. |
| 03:06:06.25 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 03:06:08.14 | Steven Woodside | let's go on to the other public comments before we, |
| 03:06:11.77 | Joan Cox | Did I mess up? I'm sorry. |
| 03:06:13.39 | Steven Woodside | No, no, you haven't messed up. |
| 03:06:15.40 | Joan Cox | Okay, sure. |
| 03:06:16.44 | Steven Woodside | No, it's fine. But I think the suggestion is the retention system that's under the sidewalk. that it be explored. We've heard from director McGowan. It will be. And then, and then, You've asked the question about who else is engaged. That's fine. But I think we need to go on to other public comments at this point. Is that OK? Okay. Okay, Michelle McCullough. She had to leave. Thank you. All right, Carolyn, you're up. Carolyn Revell. |
| 03:06:52.25 | Carolyn Revell | Good evening, Mayor Woodside and members of the council. Speaking as a longtime tree advocate and a member of the Sausalito Beautiful Board, We appreciate that this project as currently designed includes eight street trees along the proposed sidewalk as far as Tomales. The current design did indicate cutouts for the individual trees, but I was pleased that Director McGowan has taken the suggestion of having it be a continuous planting strip rather than just little cutouts better for, um, more room for the roots to grow and not cause the sidewalk damage that we've been experiencing. and planting could occur in between The trees in that planting strip, if the chain link fence is removed, it could perhaps be a buffer for the balls that might possibly Lee and up there. We also endorse exploration of the tree trench as proposed for bioretention by Mark Palmer, the Sustainability Commission chair, an intriguing idea that is definitely worth exploring. Again, regarding the current plan, the trees are only proposed for as far as Chamalus, It's unfortunate that the consultant doesn't include street trees for the portion further on. They say there's not space, but if the sidewalk were, if the road were narrowed by just a foot at that end toward Lima, there would be room, I believe. And that might help with the traffic calming to narrow. with the road. um, If there is no planting of trees there, we're hoping that with the housing project, that landscape would be included. Certainly at the workshop last weekend, people on the, Amenities Committee were very interested in landscaping. And finally, I really would like to express appreciation for the way in which Director McGowan and Senior Engineer Andy Davidson have included and allowed participation by the public. Very much appreciated. For example, we commented that ginkgo trees might not be good as a tree selection. And instead, I understand the crape myrtle idea has been adopted. Thank you very much. |
| 03:08:54.44 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. Any other public comments? |
| 03:08:57.82 | Walfred Solorzano | We have some online. We have Babette McDougall. |
| 03:09:04.79 | Babette McDougall | Well, good evening once again. Thank you very much for acknowledging me. So I want to touch on some of these points that you all have been making, because it really comes down to what our District 3 supervisor. came and spoke to us about about one year ago now, Placemaking. So that's a T-shaped intersection, if memory serves, because I lived in that neighborhood for a long time. when I first came to Sausalito. I live currently at Girard at Litho where we have a five-star Street intersection. I had initially requested from Gordon Sweeney. That tells you how long ago I asked for a roundabout. for this area of five points. And he thought it was a wonderful idea, but he never got around to it. And then he retired and he said, well, I just want... I want you to know that I never really filed any paperwork, but we're going to do stop signs. People ignore these stop signs. I would say 75, 80 percent of the time. Now they didn't start out that way, but they're like that now. So I can see the arguments on both sides here. The question is fundamentally, what are we gonna do about it? Because Joan Cox is correct. People do just, you know, they're thinking about their own moment. And half the time they're distracted by devices or the, you know, state-of-the-art stuff in the vehicle. So, I mean, really, if children are going to be part of our community, then we have to take that seriously. I mean, we need to army up. with crossing guards, for example, because placemaking does matter. And it matters more than ever. So I encourage you folks to think very carefully about making sure that the local voice is not just heard, but implement it as part of the solution. These folks are the ones who know They live with it every day. Thank you so much. I hear back my turn. Uh, |
| 03:10:51.91 | Walfred Solorzano | Okay, next we have Lorna Newlin. |
| 03:10:59.66 | Walfred Solorzano | Thank you. |
| 03:10:59.67 | Lorna Newland | Unmute. |
| 03:11:00.33 | Walfred Solorzano | Thank you. |
| 03:11:00.67 | Lorna Newland | Hello, again. And I do want to apologize. I haven't been able to hear absolutely everything due to Wi-Fi problems I constantly have. But... One of the things earlier, I believe, Director McGowan said he did not want to delay the decision on the stop sign due to wanting to get this project going. Well, I have lived in Whiskey Springs for 33 years. I have... Been a tenant at MLK for 20 years. I've crossed that street for, I go back and forth three to four times a day. I haven't had a crosswalk. I am willing to wait to make sure at this point, after so many years, to have it done Right. And, you know, I... Describe to the thing, measure twice, cut once. Let's get this whole project done correctly. And I understand all the problems with that. I have told all of the council, I can witness people coming up from Bridgeway all the way up Coloma. I can predict every person who's going to speed through the parking lot at the MLK. And I know that's not part of this but i went blue in the face going to police going to city prior city councils prior mayors about the speeding in the parking lot everybody exiting the parking lot there's a stop sign there and going on to coloma and then speeding back down to bridgeway so it's all important we all need a really wonderful crosswalk we need uh speed bumps and perhaps I, uh, perhaps even the, somebody should go to, I believe it's town center in Corte Madera. The speed bumps there. Oh my God, you have to go slow. So those should be in the parking lot, but on the street, we should have some kind of, if we can't have a crosswalk at the Tomales, uh, juncture where we're going to put, well, if we can't have a stop sign. then we should have some kind of speed bump. |
| 03:13:04.89 | Walfred Solorzano | All right, next speaker is Kieran Culligan. |
| 03:13:11.18 | Kieran Culligan | Hi there. I just want to, off the top, express appreciation for this project. It's been a long time coming. I was just searching my records. First ask I saw for the CrossRocket Coloma and Tomales is 2016. I started getting picked up by PBAC in 2019, well before I was on it. And every meeting we have, actually, I'm excited because it feels like we're one step closer to getting a safer environment for our children, and for all of us. And I just in particular wanted to highlight the speed table crosswalk idea at Tomalas and Coloma. I was pretty concerned, honestly, with how it was portrayed in the staff report, so I'm glad to see that there is some reconsideration. This is a bread and butter traffic coming. You know, It's increasingly everywhere. It works great. It's not like a stop sign where people can just blow through it. They're going to learn their lesson real quick if they blow through it. You pour some concrete and you have something working for you 24 hours a day, seven days a week to slow people down. Not only that, it raises the pedestrians. It makes them more visible, especially if you have children, that makes a big difference. difference. So I really hope that gets considered as part of the design configuration here, I think it'd be a huge benefit. Coloma is not a primary arterial. It is not a secondary arterial. It's not a major collector. It's not a minor collector. It is a neighborhood street. connects to some other neighborhood streets. It is that Columbia Crosswalk that we're talking about is a designated safe route to school. And we'd love to see it done right. Similar to the previous speaker, I want it soon, but I also want it done right. And I think this is a great opportunity to do that. And I would love to hear city council's opinion on that as you are providing direction. Thank you. |
| 03:15:03.50 | Walfred Solorzano | No further public comments? |
| 03:15:04.77 | Steven Woodside | Anyone else in the audience? Okay, let's bring it back for discussion and direction. May I make a couple of suggestions? Can we deal with the stop sign issue first? |
| 03:15:15.65 | Joan Cox | Great. |
| 03:15:17.37 | Joan Cox | I'd like to move that we install a stop sign. |
| 03:15:21.08 | Joan Cox | Sehr kind. I'm going to make a counter motion. I move that we direct staff to undertake the engineering study and that if the engineering study for some unforeseen unpredictable reason determines that it is not appropriate to put stop signs there, that staff return to us so that we can direct the installation of a stop sign, but I And the rationale for my motion is that we have been told that we are better off to have that engineering study in place to support the enforceability and to prevent liability arising from the installation of the stop sign. |
| 03:16:10.06 | Steven Woodside | Is there a second to that motion, alternate motion? |
| 03:16:13.40 | Jill Hoffman | Yeah, I'll second that. I think that's a good. |
| 03:16:16.08 | Steven Woodside | Okay. |
| 03:16:16.25 | Jill Hoffman | Okay. Thank you. |
| 03:16:16.60 | Joan Cox | where. |
| 03:16:16.66 | Jill Hoffman | PEOPLE. |
| 03:16:16.94 | Joan Cox | Thank you. |
| 03:16:16.96 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 03:16:16.98 | Joan Cox | Thank you. |
| 03:16:17.08 | Steven Woodside | So I think. |
| 03:16:17.57 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 03:16:17.60 | Joan Cox | So the vote goes on the second motion from the vote. |
| 03:16:19.62 | Steven Woodside | That's what I was about to say. That's my understanding of Rosenberg's Rules of Order. So we will take that up. I'm gonna make a comment about that. I'm willing to support the second motion. But I want to add that I would strongly encourage the use of what Remember Cox characterizes common sense when the engineer goes out to look at that area. And I don't think it requires super analytics for an engineer who's familiar with these things to come to a conclusion that a stop sign would be warranted or additional stop signs would be warranted. Now, I'm not an engineer. I'm not prepared to say that that's the opinion that you will come up with. But I want to encourage that you take a serious look at it because clearly the people who live there understand that there's a risk. |
| 03:17:17.57 | Joan Cox | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 03:17:18.30 | Steven Woodside | And I think- |
| 03:17:18.97 | Joan Cox | make a friendly amendment or request to see if it makes sense. If for some reason the stop sign wasn't warranted because of something, it sounds like it would be because of something about the built environment. because as he said, it would be about, not being expected, for instance, or something about the sitescape or linescape. So in the event that somehow it's not warranted, it'd be, accompanied by a set of recommendations of changes we could make that would make it warranted. |
| 03:17:44.88 | Joan Cox | I accept the friendly amendment. |
| 03:17:47.69 | Steven Woodside | Okay. So the maker of the motion and the seconder accept that friendly amendment from their friendly colleague at the end. And, um, Okay. How about if we call the question? |
| 03:17:58.65 | Joan Cox | All right, great. |
| 03:17:59.41 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:17:59.51 | Steven Woodside | Okay. All those, you want to call the roll? Okay. Councilmember Cox? |
| 03:18:02.09 | Joan Cox | Okay. |
| 03:18:03.69 | Joan Cox | Thank you. |
| 03:18:03.71 | Joan Cox | It's just here. |
| 03:18:05.03 | Joan Cox | Yeah, you can say all in favor. All in favor. Aye. Aye. So the second motion carries as amended. As amended. |
| 03:18:08.57 | Joan Cox | He's rolling. |
| 03:18:13.97 | Walfred Solorzano | that's a good thing. |
| 03:18:14.12 | Joan Cox | Thank you. |
| 03:18:14.17 | Walfred Solorzano | For the record, City Attorney, you call it alternate motion or second motion? |
| 03:18:19.89 | Jill Hoffman | The amended second amended. |
| 03:18:21.90 | Walfred Solorzano | Thank you. |
| 03:18:21.92 | Joan Cox | Um, I don't think that there's a mean alternate motion, alternate motion as amended. Yes. |
| 03:18:22.05 | Jill Hoffman | I don't think that there's a meaningful. |
| 03:18:29.80 | Unknown | Okay. |
| 03:18:31.42 | Joan Cox | you |
| 03:18:31.43 | Sergio Rudin | the, Do we need to do- You have to vote on the first motion unless it's withdrawn by the proponents. |
| 03:18:38.18 | Melissa Blaustein | It's withdrawn. Oh, sorry, you, Bradford, I seconded it. |
| 03:18:41.98 | Steven Woodside | Okay. It's been withdrawn. |
| 03:18:47.79 | Steven Woodside | So now, do we need to do anything more with respect to the bioretention under the sidewalk? |
| 03:18:55.74 | Joan Cox | I would like to ask that the public works director include that as an ad alternate to the plans so that he can get pricing for it. And when they come back to us with the bid and the pricing, we can make a decision at that time whether we can afford it. |
| 03:19:19.75 | Steven Woodside | Is that a motion? |
| 03:19:20.68 | Joan Cox | That's a motion. |
| 03:19:21.23 | Jill Hoffman | options. May I? This isn't a this is a request that when that comes back, would you also include in the staff report the, the filtration that stormwater goes through currently without the bioretention as it goes to the bay? What, if any? |
| 03:19:40.62 | Kevin McGowan | Yes. |
| 03:19:41.03 | Jill Hoffman | Yeah. Okay, thanks. |
| 03:19:42.77 | Steven Woodside | the end. |
| 03:19:43.04 | Unknown | is none. |
| 03:19:43.61 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. |
| 03:19:44.01 | Joan Cox | Yeah. |
| 03:19:44.25 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:19:44.27 | Joan Cox | Thank you. |
| 03:19:44.28 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:19:44.33 | Joan Cox | Thank you. |
| 03:19:44.35 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:19:44.39 | Joan Cox | There's none. |
| 03:19:45.06 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, thank you. |
| 03:19:45.97 | Joan Cox | Second my motion. Sure. |
| 03:19:47.37 | Joan Cox | Okay. So there's a motion. I had a question for you, because I've kind of lost track a little bit of a detail here. David Marlott, who sits on a planning commission, wrote a letter on this very project, asking for it to come back to planning commission for some input. But are we past that point? That's my question. |
| 03:20:03.79 | Joan Cox | I hope so. You know, the Public Works Director would like to get this out to bid and built before the rainy season. So I and it takes a minute to get back to the Planning Commission. So I would like us to be able to proceed. That's why I'm proposing having this as an alternate ad item so that we can make a decision on it without delaying. that, is. |
| 03:20:27.42 | Joan Cox | So let me ask you also a question because the theme in his letter was, Hey, there's some landscape architecture expertise. I mean, he's a landscape architect or an architect. Uh, and it seemed to suggest to me without having spoken to him, that there might be some low hanging fruit within the scope of our budget and design, that he at least might be able to contribute or others. I don't know. And so I'm wondering if there's a way for us not to miss the ball on that by asking the director to talk to Marlach. |
| 03:20:54.11 | Joan Cox | Yeah, we just direct Director McGowan to gather |
| 03:20:55.85 | Joan Cox | Dr. McGowan. |
| 03:20:59.14 | Joan Cox | Commissioner Marlott's feedback prior to releasing the invitation to bid. I got a thumbs up. Okay? |
| 03:21:08.63 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. |
| 03:21:08.64 | Jill Hoffman | Yeah. |
| 03:21:09.37 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. |
| 03:21:09.39 | Joan Cox | Thank you. |
| 03:21:09.62 | Jill Hoffman | but not to engage any new We're not escape architects. Correct. We continue to move forward. |
| 03:21:12.42 | Steven Woodside | I'm not. |
| 03:21:15.93 | Steven Woodside | The direction is, and Mr. McGowan has agreed to consult with our planning commissioner, who is an architect. I don't believe a landscape architect, but. |
| 03:21:25.52 | Joan Cox | Sorry, so to identify whether there is indeed any low-hanging fruit that can be timely incorporated into the invitation to bid. |
| 03:21:35.95 | Steven Woodside | Okay, so that's the direction. Now we do have a motion in the second. |
| 03:21:39.07 | Melissa Blaustein | Wait, sorry, I just want to clarify. So there's absolutely no way that we can just give direction now for a raised sidewalk. |
| 03:21:43.91 | Joan Cox | Thank you. |
| 03:21:45.11 | Unknown | break. |
| 03:21:45.41 | Melissa Blaustein | So isn't that what, oh, sorry, crossfire? |
| 03:21:45.60 | Joan Cox | Isn't that what? this the motion only concerns the bioretention system then we're going to take that up separately the raised crosswalk is |
| 03:21:48.40 | Melissa Blaustein | This is. |
| 03:21:52.10 | Melissa Blaustein | and then, |
| 03:21:53.09 | Steven Woodside | Okay. Thank you. |
| 03:21:55.01 | Joan Cox | No. |
| 03:21:55.08 | Steven Woodside | next. to deal with. |
| 03:21:55.74 | Joan Cox | I thought it was bioretention and the race. No, it's only the bi, it's only in lieu of a bioretention pond, the linear tree trench system with engineered soil. |
| 03:21:55.76 | Steven Woodside | Yeah. Okay. |
| 03:22:05.95 | Joan Cox | Thank you. |
| 03:22:06.08 | Melissa Blaustein | Thank you. |
| 03:22:06.10 | Joan Cox | And I request that |
| 03:22:06.96 | Melissa Blaustein | with the Sustainability Commission as well on that project? This came, this suggestion, yes, you can, but this suggestion came from the chair. No, I know. I'm just saying, can we continue the conversation with them and engage them in what we decide to do moving forward? |
| 03:22:11.10 | Joan Cox | I mean, I don't know. I just mean, |
| 03:22:19.84 | Joan Cox | So long as it doesn't delay the issuance of the invitation to bid. |
| 03:22:23.09 | Jill Hoffman | No. Listen, let's talk about this for a second. I don't think it should go back to the Sustainability Commission. I think that they're doing a great job right now with Mark's here. I think they're watching this as it goes through. And I think we, and Andy's nodding his head back there. And they're involved in this as it's going through, but I don't think it should go back through them. I don't think any, I don't want this slowed down and I don't want anything to go back. Yeah, and we don't want to slow it down. I'm just asking that perhaps |
| 03:22:46.26 | Andy Davidson | Yeah. |
| 03:22:48.97 | Melissa Blaustein | they be involved in in discussions with which. And I think we're way past that. |
| 03:22:53.77 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:22:53.79 | Steven Woodside | Okay. |
| 03:22:54.89 | Unknown | That's it. |
| 03:22:54.97 | Jill Hoffman | Yeah. |
| 03:22:54.99 | Steven Woodside | So, |
| 03:22:55.29 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 03:22:55.39 | Melissa Blaustein | times. |
| 03:22:55.66 | Unknown | I'm going to go. |
| 03:22:55.78 | Melissa Blaustein | I'm not sure. |
| 03:22:55.99 | Steven Woodside | As with consulting with Planning Commissioner Marlott, I think it's appropriate that if there are individuals other than Mr. Palmer and others on the commission that have the time to offer some additional insight, that would be helpful, of course. |
| 03:22:56.10 | Jill Hoffman | Yeah. |
| 03:23:00.68 | Jill Hoffman | that's the first time. |
| 03:23:00.73 | Unknown | Thank you. to the next. |
| 03:23:01.13 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:23:01.33 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:23:01.43 | Unknown | It's the same thing. |
| 03:23:12.24 | Melissa Blaustein | Yeah, I wasn't implying we should slow it down. |
| 03:23:13.96 | Steven Woodside | We shouldn't send these back |
| 03:23:15.90 | Melissa Blaustein | Pell. |
| 03:23:16.28 | Steven Woodside | to commission agenda. |
| 03:23:16.77 | Melissa Blaustein | That would be the point. that we give the same courtesy to the sustainability commission and mr palmer as we are i endorse the planning commission |
| 03:23:23.66 | Steven Woodside | that. OK, now back to the motion. It's been seconded. Call the question. |
| 03:23:30.49 | Joan Cox | All in favor. Councilmember Cox? Just all in favor. All in favor. |
| 03:23:31.56 | Walfred Solorzano | Sounds good. Yeah. That's where we're talking about. |
| 03:23:34.88 | Steven Woodside | Hi. |
| 03:23:34.98 | Joan Cox | Bye. Motion carries unanimously. |
| 03:23:37.95 | Steven Woodside | Okay, that carries unanimously. Now the raised sidewalk, which is the kind of the... |
| 03:23:44.64 | Melissa Blaustein | Thank you. |
| 03:23:45.34 | Steven Woodside | Yes. Woo hoo. Go ahead. Vice mayor. |
| 03:23:48.42 | Melissa Blaustein | I mean, I'd like to make a motion that we approve a raised sidewalk at both the, at Coloma, as well as, as suggested at the New Village School. Yeah, I'll second that. |
| 03:23:58.14 | Steven Woodside | motion in the second discussion. |
| 03:24:04.83 | Steven Woodside | you |
| 03:24:04.89 | Melissa Blaustein | as well. |
| 03:24:04.94 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. |
| 03:24:04.97 | Melissa Blaustein | Thank you. |
| 03:24:05.02 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. |
| 03:24:05.04 | Melissa Blaustein | Crosswalk. |
| 03:24:06.00 | Steven Woodside | Bye. |
| 03:24:06.30 | Joan Cox | Yeah. |
| 03:24:06.89 | Melissa Blaustein | Crosswalk, not as a- Crosswalk, sorry, excuse me. |
| 03:24:07.81 | Joan Cox | Bye. Thank you. So it's a crisis. |
| 03:24:10.71 | Melissa Blaustein | I don't know why that came out. |
| 03:24:11.75 | Joan Cox | Thank you. |
| 03:24:11.79 | Melissa Blaustein | Thank you. |
| 03:24:11.84 | Joan Cox | Thank you. |
| 03:24:11.87 | Melissa Blaustein | Thank you. |
| 03:24:12.02 | Joan Cox | up |
| 03:24:12.46 | Melissa Blaustein | Thank you. |
| 03:24:12.48 | Joan Cox | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 03:24:12.72 | Melissa Blaustein | It's... |
| 03:24:12.93 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:24:12.95 | Melissa Blaustein | Thanks. |
| 03:24:12.99 | Unknown | to the next episode. |
| 03:24:13.04 | Steven Woodside | Yeah. |
| 03:24:13.29 | Joan Cox | Can we hear from Captain Barnes about whether that creates an impediment for Southern Marine |
| 03:24:18.17 | Steven Woodside | Okay, I was going to say, before we... |
| 03:24:20.95 | Joan Cox | Since he's here. |
| 03:24:22.08 | Steven Woodside | Yes. |
| 03:24:22.70 | Joan Cox | THE END OF |
| 03:24:22.89 | Steven Woodside | Chief, we know there's concern about a raised. If you can explain what the concern is directly, we'd love to hear it. |
| 03:24:23.38 | Joan Cox | I'm a great guy. |
| 03:24:31.11 | Joan Cox | Apologies, Chief. |
| 03:24:32.21 | Steven Woodside | That's OK. |
| 03:24:32.65 | Joan Cox | Thank you. |
| 03:24:33.20 | Charles Melton | Thank you. |
| 03:24:33.25 | Steven Woodside | Good evening, Deputy |
| 03:24:33.98 | Charles Melton | chief MapBurns. Um, there is no concern. We're working directly with the city staff and support the plan. |
| 03:24:42.75 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. Sorry you had to wait all this time to say that. |
| 03:24:49.76 | Joan Cox | But we appreciate your being here. |
| 03:24:51.56 | Steven Woodside | Yeah. Okay. Call the question. |
| 03:24:57.13 | Walfred Solorzano | Thank you. |
| 03:24:57.15 | Steven Woodside | sorry, |
| 03:24:58.02 | Walfred Solorzano | Oh. |
| 03:24:58.53 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. |
| 03:24:58.55 | Walfred Solorzano | I'll look forward to it. |
| 03:24:58.73 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. |
| 03:24:58.78 | Walfred Solorzano | All in favor? . |
| 03:25:00.03 | Lorna Newland | Bye. |
| 03:25:00.50 | Walfred Solorzano | Thank you. motion curves. |
| 03:25:02.45 | Steven Woodside | Now, have we left anything out, Mr. McGowan? Okay. Okay. That is |
| 03:25:09.92 | Joan Cox | That's three B. Now we're on to three, three, five. Perfect. |
| 03:25:13.82 | Steven Woodside | Okay. |
| 03:25:13.97 | Melissa Blaustein | Thank you, Director McGowan. |
| 03:25:17.08 | Steven Woodside | So now we are on the... Lot one project. |
| 03:25:23.37 | Jill Hoffman | Let me take a five-minute break. |
| 03:25:25.02 | Steven Woodside | A request has been made to take a another short break, very short this time. |
| 03:25:30.61 | Jill Hoffman | Yeah. |
| 03:25:30.91 | Melissa Blaustein | Thank you. |
| 03:29:19.43 | Unknown | um, |
| 03:29:19.98 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. |
| 03:29:20.03 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:29:23.70 | Steven Woodside | Just waiting a second for the return. Thank you. Um, Mr. McGowan, you're on again, this time for parking lot one. |
| 03:29:31.06 | Kevin McGowan | Yes, I only have an introduction this evening. So again, thank you for bringing this item up. It's about parking lot one reconstruction project. Our project manager, Sarah Korshidafard, should be here. Sarah, are you still here? There you go. She has been managing this project diligently. I just wanted to recognize her for her efforts. Also the design team is here from CSW and WRT, and they will be making the presentation tonight. Robert Stevens from CSW will be making the initial presentation. And then John Gibbs may be stepping up from WRT to help with some of the concepts as well. Following the presentation, I'd like to make a few remarks regarding some of the comments we have received from the public with the intent of circling back to the project goal. So with that, I'll turn it over to Mr. Stephenson. |
| 03:30:32.84 | Steven Woodside | Thank you and welcome. |
| 03:30:34.44 | Robert Stevens | Good evening, Mayor and Council members. Thank you for having me this evening. My name is Robert Stevens. I'm the president of CSW. We've been based here in Marin County for 70 years. Great to see you tonight. I have both Peter Trigo and John Gibbs from WRT. They're both landscape architects and they've been integral in the planning process. Next slide, please. Next slide, please. So I think it's important as we begin tonight and where we've been over the last several months is to think about kind of what our scope of work is and what the direction was. So the direction on this project was to evaluate options to reconstruct the pavement to parking lot one. And as we're doing this, look towards, you know, long-term visions of what this could be. But it was really about preserving the investment that was made with the ferry landing project. Next slide, please. So starting last fall, we began with an existing conditions assessment. And one of the first tasks we did was we evaluated the health of the trees that were out there. 38 ficus trees. And, you know, they're in varying stages of health. They weren't planted appropriately. But the arborist found that five of those trees are capable candidates of preserving moving forward. But that means a lot of those trees have probably extended their lives and probably would be needing to be removed soon. We also developed a series of alternatives ranging from fairly simple parking concepts to plaza spaces, all the way ranging to a structured parking option on the facility, just to sort of vision what possibly we could have there. We had a great meeting here in January. We brought our scenarios forward and we talked with stakeholders and community members and kind of heard their opinions about what they thought that lot one should be. Sarah and I had the opportunity to meet with the local professionals group at Michael Rex's office a few weeks back, and we heard a little bit about sort of the visioning process and kind of what they thought that this lot should be and how the two could mix together. The goal tonight is to bring you an update of that and then hopefully in a month or so come back and present a refined concept so that we could finalize the design get the project bid by the end of the year and be in construction next year if that's the direction. Next slide please. |
| 03:33:08.04 | Robert Stevens | So a couple of the constraints that this project is under, one was the direction that we want to maintain the existing parking capacity. And the existing parking capacity is 144 stalls, and that is what all the scenarios show tonight. Again, we were directed to maintain a fixed budget of $2.5 million, which which includes planning, design, construction management, inspection and the actual construction work to actually implement that. And then, as I mentioned, we're really looking to to preserve the investment that was made on the ferry landing hardscape around the parking lot. Next slide, please. So one of the other constraints that we realized initially was sort of the standard parking stall that the Sausalito Municipal Code requires. Currently, that is a nine foot wide by 19 feet long stall. That stall is fairly large. It's not consistent with a lot of the stalls we see in municipal parking lots and other portions of the Bay Area, which are more like about eight and a half feet wide by about 16 feet long. Also, a lot of parking garages you'll see in San Francisco or Oakland, the stalls are more on the smaller side. Again, if you do change the stall size, it creates an opportunity to either increase the parking here on a very conservative approximation. You can get like 151 stalls, or you could use that space for other elements, greening, plaza space, other amenities that you might incorporate into the plaza or the parking space. Next slide, please. So again, in January, we held the meeting here where we had about 40 attendees. Sarah, Peter, and I led a discussion regarding the different scenarios and the basis for the project. And we held a session talking at the boards and received some really great feedback from a lot of great folks. And they ranged from very specific feedback related to our scenarios to kind of a more bolder vision of how to handle partners. Parking and circulation and bicycle parking at this location. Next slide, please. So I'm gonna present the three scenarios that we presented, and these are generally consistent with the direction that was received. Scenario one says, let's view that parking lot one, will become a plaza at some point within the next 20 years. And if it's going to become a plaza and it's not going to be used for parking, we ought to minimize the investment. So let's do what we can. Let's resurface the asphalt. Let's make it smooth so it doesn't represent a tripping hazard. Let's remove the trees that are the most damaged. Let's plant what we can. But let's only spend about $1.7 million to get there. So it's a really kind of a conservative option looking towards the future. Next slide, please. So scenario two keeps the same configuration of the lot. And what it basically does is it uses the reduced parking stall size, which allows additional stalls in the lot. You know, we get into the low 150s if that's how we want to allocate the space. But the thing that's interesting about this, you see a lot more greening spaces. You see sort of this Paseo space, the reduction in the stall size affords an opportunity to reappropriate that for other uses. And one of the ideas with this was to say that in the future, if we believe that autonomous pods was going to drop us off and pick us up, you know, providing a space on anchor and allowing people to walk onto the ferry landing, that might be a good idea. And that's why this particular exhibit shows that plaza space that's right there. Now, of course, you'll see up there our cost is in excess of the two and a half million. It's about three point three million dollars. This is a very robust pavement rehabilitation technique. this is going to last longer than 20 years and it's really saying that you know we might do something in the future This is a very robust pavement rehabilitation technique. This is going to last longer than 20 years. And it's really saying that, you know, we might do something in the future with this space, but we want to kind of prioritize our parking. We want to we might want to use this for a flexible space. But but but we don't think we're going to make this conversion in the next 20 years. Next slide, please. So scenario three flips the lot 90 degrees. And this flipping at 90 degrees provides the opportunity with the smaller stall concept to provide additional stalls, a little more than scenario two, But if you look at this one, you can see on the far right side or the east side of the lot, the plaza could migrate to the west and maintain circulation over time. So that plaza could either get permanently wider or it could be used as a flexible space for events. This, because it's a pretty large change, again, is $3.5 million, which of course is above our allocated budget. Next slide, please. So we received a host of feedback during the meeting, and this is just sort of high level that, you know, people were really excited about, you know, having smaller size stalls either because it provides an opportunity to do other things with that space or potentially could create another revenue source. People didn't believe that the wayfinding for drop-off and pickup was very clear. And there was a lot of different opinions about how this should be allocated and used there. People were very, very passionate about planting in trees and masking the parking lot to the extent possible. A lot of orientation. Some people were concerned that this could potentially create a problem for entrance to the yacht club or potential safety hazards. So there was a lot of good discussion about that. A lot of conversations around bike parking and how that space could be allocated. Circulation, again, for peds, bikes, people, you know, it goes beyond the parking lot, it goes to the surrounding streets. I think there's an interest in creating a gateway element or an art element and then creating a reasonable flexible plaza space that we could hold special events in the near term in the parking lot was was favored. Next slide please. But again, some of these ideas and some of the feedback we received were much more broader than a parking lot resurfacing project. They were more visionary. And so next slide, please. And a lot of them, their genesis came from, there's been quite a bit, 50 years of planning activities that have occurred here. And some of these great sketches, I wasn't able to actually see them until the January 29th meeting. And it's obviously lots of planning, lots of effort, lots of great ideas that are here. If you look at some of those options, right, a lot of those options maintain access to the Yacht Club, as well as they do provide a small parking lot there. So that's an important thing to think about when we talk about the future visions. Next slide. But again, this sort of synthesizes this idea that we have a parking lot and we have a red boundary around it. We're really focusing on asphalt, but we have all these bold ideas around the perimeter of it. And while our parking lot can feed into that and we can think about that, we're sort of constrained about how far we can really go with some of these ideas. Next slide, please. So again, in summary, scenario one, $1.7 million, ranging all the way up to about $3.5 million with our $2.5 million budget. Next slide, please. So in terms of recommendations and kind of where we stand today, you know, as I said, you know, if we're looking for a solution that lasts us 20 years, we're converting this to a plaza space, you know, I think our advice would be spend as least amount of money as possible, resurface the lot, make it usable. Next slide, please. then option or the recommended direction too is if we don't think we're gonna convert to a plaza, Let's pick an option that's similar to what some of the prior visioning documents have shown, which is sort of this concept. And if you look on the north side near Gabrielson Park, some of the previous visioning documents showed that as a small parking lot that provides access to the Yacht Club. This works really nicely because the layout of this works with that future visioning concept, but provides the parking that we're looking for in this near term. And then you can see in the brownish-tannish area right there, that's an area that could be cordoned off for special events in the near term and still provide full circulation through the parking lot here. Next slide, please. So again, moving forward and working towards finding sort of a preferred option and moving forward with this project, a couple of things are really key. It's like, do we wanna reduce our standard parking stall size? Cause that's codified in the municipal code. We want to make sure we understand, are the limits of work truly the parking lot, or should we be exploring some of these ideas on the periphery? And then finally, it's kind of confirming sort of this recommended direction. Are we looking for the near term sort of the scenario one, are we looking, towards scenario two. And if we're looking towards scenario two, Thank you. Is it the direction to maintain the budget at $2.5 million? Because that's going to be a challenge to meet that. But we could do some value engineering and probably get close to that. I don't think we can get to $2.5 million. Yeah. So thank you. That was the end of our presentation. |
| 03:43:29.16 | Kevin McGowan | Thank you. |
| 03:43:29.18 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. |
| 03:43:29.68 | Kevin McGowan | um, A couple of quick comments back from public works. So I also wanted to direct your attention to some graphics located in the hallway. If you walk down the hallway, you'll notice that from the meeting that we had with the public, We have the same examples that you've seen on your screen, but they have a whole lot of stickies all over. These are people's ideas. And you can see that There's lots of concepts, lots of things that people are thinking about with this. This is a good, good thing, but it makes it difficult to try to make a decision on how to move forward. So wanted to bring that up. Um, From my perspective, I do think it's a good idea to make some changes in the code to represent more standard parking sizes. Ours are a little bit large, and I think we should get back to looking back to some more practical sizes themselves. I don't think that will be too difficult, but I just wanted to mention from my perspective, I think that would be important for all the municipal lots. I had a nice conversation with a gentleman who sent you an email on this particular project. And I wanted to bring it up because you kind of the conversation, even though it didn't follow his email specifically, he kind of captured some things associated with how, where we are right now and where we are going, which was covered by our consultants team. If we want to get into looking at a bigger picture for this, we're going to need some more study. We're going to need a bigger budget to do that. We've done this for years as well. But on the other hand, the conversation, he realized this, this person I was talking to that, hey, if you want to make sure that this parking lot functions as a parking a lot. We've got to take some action right now. We've got to do something as far as repaving it, remove some of these trees, maybe remove all the trees so that we get the roots out of the way. Um, So based on the original constraints of the project, I think our consultant has stuck with the budget itself, and they presented some good alternatives for you as well. And at this point, we all welcome your comments and questions. |
| 03:45:44.65 | Steven Woodside | We'll start with questions from the dais and again, caution all of us to be discipline to ask questions and not start the debate or discussion. questions. Amber Cox. |
| 03:46:01.20 | Joan Cox | Thank you. I had a couple of questions. Several of the public comment letters that we received and that you received prior to the January 29th workshop inquired about incorporating the planned North-South Greenway Bay Trail alignment. which the city decided on more than 15 years ago. It was not clear to me from the staff report whether any of these alternatives could or do incorporate that Bay Trail Um, approach. |
| 03:46:34.60 | Robert Stevens | Thank you. It's my understanding that The proposed bicycle infrastructure would be located on the north side between the parking lot in Gabrielson Park. The ferry landing project actually constructed that facility generally consistent with that plan. But my understanding is that because that serves as a loading zone for cyclists, that that's not exactly accommodating that need. So in order to accomplish that, we would either have to widen into the parking lot, which would potentially remove parking stalls. or push to the north into Gay-Rolson Park, which might affect the bioretention facility that was constructed previously. |
| 03:47:16.11 | Joan Cox | So the staff report talks about providing bicycle parking near the northerly sidewalk ferry staging area, but it does not talk about the incorporation of the Bay Trail pathway. And so, and we have already... um, perhaps even, I don't know if it was before or after you were awarded the design of this project, we don't have a massive bicycle parking area in Lot 1 any longer. We have dispersed bicycle parking outside of Lot 1. So I'm not sure we still need... I'm not sure it is still an aligned-upon element for this project to include, bicycle parking near the northerly sidewalk. And so I guess my question to you is whether we can whether there's still time and ability to integrate the bikeway connection to the ferry landing And this is one of the questions asked by staff for us to answer, is whether should the project consider integrating any other plans such as the bikeway connection to ferry landing as discussed in TAM's 2011 report? I would include. whether we can include this South Greenway Bay Trail around the eastern perimeter of Lot 1. um, |
| 03:48:43.96 | Robert Stevens | Thank you. |
| 03:48:43.98 | Joan Cox | We can definitely accommodate. |
| 03:48:45.97 | Robert Stevens | that that will remove parking. |
| 03:48:49.97 | Joan Cox | But will it remove parking if we reduce the size of our stalls? Will we be able to still maintain |
| 03:48:54.04 | Robert Stevens | I get a fit. Yeah, we can evaluate that. I suspect that a little bit of parking potentially could be lost, but we can evaluate that. And the whole idea behind the parking is that we've heard differing opinions about it. We've heard some folks that are very, very specific about where parking should be and others think that we should spread some bike parking in the parking lot. So I think we've heard differing opinions about that. |
| 03:49:22.17 | Joan Cox | And I had one other question or one other topic, which is in, in the staff report, there is a wonderful table. I'm not sure who wrote this staff report, but it's very well done. that talks about each of the alternatives and what their strengths and what their limitations are. A limitation of the plaza is no direct connection between ferry terminal and drop-off area. And obviously, the whole purpose of this funding is to make holistic the ferry landing and access experience. But I don't see how improve as is or the Paseo addresses the connection between ferry terminal and drop-off area, although it's not listed as a constraint in those two. So, |
| 03:50:13.16 | Robert Stevens | Thank you. |
| 03:50:13.18 | Joan Cox | Thank you. |
| 03:50:13.28 | Fred Moore | Thank you. |
| 03:50:13.32 | Robert Stevens | Yeah, so Sarah can take credit. She was the author of the staff report. We could look at the exhibits really quickly. I think we can clarify this. So when we... |
| 03:50:16.99 | Joan Cox | Okay. |
| 03:50:17.36 | Fred Moore | Thank you. |
| 03:50:23.07 | Robert Stevens | Thank you. When we talk about the connection, there's sort of a, conversation about when people are being dropped off or picked up, where should that occur? Currently it occurs within the parking lot. And right, that creates a lot of additional congestion and problems. So there was an idea that we came up with. We said, yeah, well, why don't we just shift it out to Anchor Street? So if we look in the plaza space here, you can see if I was to drop somebody off on Anchor Street, yep, that was perfect. Let's go back to the Back, back. Yeah, right there. Perfect. If I was to drop somebody off on Anchor Street, kind of near the entrance to the parking lot it is today, I would have a very circuitous route if I walked towards the ferry, right? There's a lot of, you know, there's parking, there's trees. The Paseo option, scenario two, provided a direct connection. So you could walk from where you're dropped off right to the dock there. |
| 03:51:30.37 | Joan Cox | Is that the intersection in the... Exactly, exactly. That's what I thought it was. I just wasn't positive. |
| 03:51:36.37 | Robert Stevens | Exactly. And we got some really great feedback from the local professionals group about that, that they said, oh, we get that why you did this, but... We're not sure we want to encourage folks to walk that way. We really want them to walk to our downtown. We really want them to walk to the south and in. And so, It's an interesting sort of riddle. What do you believe the future is going to be for vehicles? And how do you believe people are going to arrive at destinations? |
| 03:52:07.61 | Joan Cox | Okay. Those were two of my key questions. Thank you, Maeve. |
| 03:52:10.33 | Steven Woodside | Just follow up on the access, having been at the ferry landing this morning to watch people 8 15 and having done that about 50 to 100 times over the last year. A few people are dropped off, even when bad weather, to catch the ferry when there's a lot of traffic outbound. um, But Some will go to El Portal. And many people will park In the other lots where it's less expensive and walk. and in some cases, run to catch it. So adding another path may not be necessary. Now I'm making a comment, not asking a question, but my question to you is, um, In addition to whatever subjective comments were made to you, have you actually taken a look at how many people how they arrive at the ferry, where they park, et cetera? Or are you just taking, or a word for it. |
| 03:53:18.92 | Robert Stevens | No, no, no, we actually, I actually have put a video camera out and measured this. But so the idea behind this again is that, you know, we're looking 15, 20 years into the future with this option. And we're saying, if the autonomous pod drops people off, is that gonna be a large group of people? And if that is, Does it make sense to do it, you know, in this location right here? And that's the whole idea behind this. |
| 03:53:45.13 | Steven Woodside | Okay, understood. Thank you. |
| 03:53:47.92 | Joan Cox | Hi there. |
| 03:53:48.15 | Robert Stevens | Thank you. |
| 03:53:48.27 | Joan Cox | Thank you. So, Maybe I misunderstood the project goals, but I thought we were supposed to get three designs within budget. Was I wrong about that? |
| 03:53:59.54 | Robert Stevens | Well, so yes, the idea is that eventually we're going to work to three designs in budget, but there's some fundamental questions here. So the first question again is, can we reduce the parking stall size? |
| 03:54:12.84 | Joan Cox | Sorry, I just meant that we saw three scenarios, all which look good, but only one of them is within the budget, as far as I could tell. |
| 03:54:18.68 | Robert Stevens | Yes, and scenario two could be within the budget, but we would have to make some concessions. We would have to remove some landscaping, and we would have to reduce some of the pavement treatments. |
| 03:54:31.05 | Joan Cox | Okay, to be able to choose which apple to buy, you'd want to have three apples. And I feel like you have apple and orange and a banana because two of them are way above our, our budget, so it's like just on budget reasons, you'd say, so I didn't know. a little at a loss as to what the Goal. Well, the project was, I thought was three designs within a certain budgeted amount. |
| 03:54:53.09 | Robert Stevens | That is very true, but there's more items here, in our opinion, to consider. And so if the direction is to come back with three options that are all within two and a half million dollars, that is totally plausible. |
| 03:55:07.50 | Joan Cox | Okay. Right. I'll save that for comment time. Did you look at expanding their anchor way is currently, uh, there are buses that park there and there's still plenty wide road. It stands just in layman's view. If Anchor Ray was one way street, if it was just wide enough for one way you, it seems like you could recover. You could make the parking, um, columns longer. You could literally add parking. Did you look at narrowing anchor way? |
| 03:55:36.47 | Robert Stevens | Yes, we actually looked at narrowing anchor way to 20 feet wide, which would be required for fire apparatus. We looked at creating a series of A drop off zone along anchor way right here, we also evaluated the opportunity to put another ingress point into the parking lot here. Pushing the parking lot this way is not going to get another row parking in there, so it's not going to actually improve. That. |
| 03:56:05.77 | Joan Cox | those center lines, the ones where the trees currently are? Thank you. |
| 03:56:08.32 | Robert Stevens | Yeah, so... |
| 03:56:08.85 | Joan Cox | If you had to have their 20 feet to the left, you'd make those columns 20 feet longer. Yeah. |
| 03:56:09.02 | Robert Stevens | cocky. |
| 03:56:13.21 | Robert Stevens | Yes, but you still need to provide a sidewalk and other things that are right there. So in order to have to parking stalls, they have to be 16 feet, 16 feet, and about 22 feet in between. And there's also a pump station and other electrical infrastructure that's there. Uh, |
| 03:56:31.97 | Joan Cox | Uh, |
| 03:56:32.23 | Robert Stevens | you |
| 03:56:32.43 | Joan Cox | and so as you were correctly pointing out you're acknowledging thinking about this holistically that it would benefit from that. But did you, but you also drew a dotted line around what the scope of work was. So did you look at bus parking on Humboldt? Did you look at circulation down Bay Road, Bay Street or anything like that when |
| 03:56:55.73 | Robert Stevens | We did not do that. |
| 03:56:55.90 | Joan Cox | We did not do that. Thank you. All right. Thank you very much. |
| 03:57:02.45 | Unknown | Bye. |
| 03:57:02.84 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. |
| 03:57:03.28 | Melissa Blaustein | Great, thank you. Thank you for being with us. And Sarah, thank you for the exhaustive staff report and the tables and everything that's in there that Council Member Cox mentioned. Um, It seems like, I mean, obviously I have the same question that, Councilmember Sobieski had with regards to on budget. But on that point, if we wanted a plaza, for example, because a lot of the feedback that we receive from folks is that they would like to open up the space, they'd want to have more pedestrian friendly options, but we don't have the budget for it at this point. What would you recommend as an immediate option while we plan for a longer term option if our goal is to be able to budget for a plaza? |
| 03:57:46.21 | Robert Stevens | So in my opinion, if we're thinking that we want a plaza space and we want to go through the planning and the visioning to address all of these circulation issues that we have before us, And we're going to do this within the next 20 years. I would do the minimal amount of work to the lot as possible, and I would proceed with lot scenario one. |
| 03:58:08.26 | Melissa Blaustein | And do you envision a master planning where we would Thank you. consider the entire circulation of the ferry landing and potentially as well and integration of the North-South Greenway, as suggested by Councilmember Cox. |
| 03:58:20.23 | Robert Stevens | I would I would look at completely in terms of all modes of transportation in this area. |
| 03:58:25.64 | Melissa Blaustein | Okay. Thanks. I just wanted to get that. |
| 03:58:27.55 | Robert Stevens | Thank you. |
| 03:58:27.62 | Melissa Blaustein | Thank you. |
| 03:58:27.65 | Robert Stevens | Thank you. |
| 03:58:27.68 | Melissa Blaustein | Thank you. |
| 03:58:27.74 | Robert Stevens | Thank you. |
| 03:58:27.75 | Melissa Blaustein | Thank you. |
| 03:58:27.79 | Robert Stevens | I'm just wondering. |
| 03:58:29.24 | Joan Cox | Sure. I forgot to ask one question. I just read actually, uh, This week, that Waymo has its approvals for Marin County and is gonna begin service. |
| 03:58:38.27 | Melissa Blaustein | I'll be meeting with them tomorrow if you'd like to join me. |
| 03:58:40.19 | Joan Cox | This might be news to my colleagues. And I just, it's what I read. Who knows what you can read the newspaper. Sorry, Steven, is that Waymo service might start in Marin County in Sausalito as soon as May of this year. Uh, so did that factor explicitly in some design elements in your Yeah. |
| 03:58:58.58 | Robert Stevens | This is specifically the reason why in projects that we're involved with throughout the Bay Area, we're looking at how the autonomous future changes parking and the needs of parking and changes circulation. Thank you. |
| 03:59:11.46 | Joan Cox | But do we have a Waymo drop-off zone here or places for Waymo vehicles? You know, they stack like three or four or five deep. |
| 03:59:11.48 | Robert Stevens | Steve, Steve. |
| 03:59:17.09 | Robert Stevens | That's the whole reason for the Anchor Street parallel parking here. |
| 03:59:22.23 | Joan Cox | That's where you're planning your Waymo drop-offs is Anchor Street Parallel Park? |
| 03:59:25.94 | Robert Stevens | It seems like to us, that's a convenient way to get vehicles in and get vehicles out without causing congestion within the lot or down in the downtown. |
| 03:59:36.82 | Steven Woodside | And quick follow-up, so that they're not going in the parking lot with autonomous vehicles. |
| 03:59:44.58 | Robert Stevens | I would I would suggest that that we don't direct our Waymo vehicles or autonomous vehicles into our parking lot to create conflicts with other vehicles or pedestrians. |
| 03:59:53.50 | Steven Woodside | Okay. Um, Ms. Hoffman. |
| 03:59:57.82 | Jill Hoffman | Yeah. Autonomous vehicles are going to be better drivers than humans anyway, so it doesn't matter, right? Yeah, let's be real. Let's be honest. And so I count myself maybe one of those. So have you done... What was missing and what I didn't see was a legal review on any loss of parking spots or any ideas of plaza areas. we did a lot of deep dive in that with the original outline of the plaza or because we did encroach on parking spots when we did the original and we did a incredible legal analysis on how many parking spots we could lose and the outline but I didn't see anything in the staff report on that is it was there a reason why we didn't do a further legal review with regard to these scenarios? Because, I mean, you're talking about plaza encroachment all over the place on this, but I didn't see anything. And that's what I would like to see before we move further, if we're going to even talk about it. |
| 04:01:00.39 | Steven Woodside | Correct me if I'm wrong. None of these alternatives have a reduction in parking. Am I correct? |
| 04:01:06.33 | Robert Stevens | Every scenario meets the council's direction of at least matching the existing condition of 144 stalls. |
| 04:01:12.99 | Jill Hoffman | Yeah, but you're also moving into the footprint of the plaza, which it does impact... the outline of the parking lot. So we talked a lot about that in the elbow area over there where the current bike parking loops are. And the loops were there for a very specific reason. because those were parking stalls. And they're there because they're parking and they're bike parking. And that's why they're there. So that's why those need to stay there. So... Thank you. Anyway, so my request is that . when we Yeah, it's why isn't there a legal review? |
| 04:01:55.57 | Steven Woodside | Because there's no reduction in parking in any of these scenarios. |
| 04:02:00.21 | Jill Hoffman | Okay. Period. Okay. |
| 04:02:00.23 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. Period. |
| 04:02:02.86 | Jill Hoffman | That's not the only analysis. It's not just reduction of parking spots. It's the outline of the parking lot that's also in play. in the parking uses. So, Okay. I, I suppose I'll pass this question to the city attorney. Okay, so I also, was there any direct engagement with our tenant, Sausalio Yacht Club, as you went through these? different scenarios. |
| 04:02:35.55 | Robert Stevens | Yes, we had a wonderful conversation with folks from the Yacht Club on January the 29th. They were very concerned about maximizing access to their facility, and we hope to continue engaging with them to make sure that we preserve their access. |
| 04:02:52.49 | Jill Hoffman | Was there, I didn't see any reference to that in the report, and I didn't see any reference in any of the scenarios. Would they give, was there, any reference anywhere and anywhere about what the yacht called feedback was |
| 04:03:01.85 | Robert Stevens | What did you do? Their comments are written out there on the boards. |
| 04:03:06.98 | Unknown | Oh, sorry. |
| 04:03:07.79 | Robert Stevens | and I believe they were Um, and I, and my recollection is that they like scenario two, because it provided pretty direct access to their, their, their club. |
| 04:03:19.27 | Jill Hoffman | with regard to the yeah, with the Paseo. |
| 04:03:22.27 | Robert Stevens | Correct. |
| 04:03:24.03 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, good, thank you. And my, I think my concern and question too is the cost that I believe the remit was bring us back scenarios in within the budget. And so I mean to follow up on that. I'll have further questions on that later, I think. |
| 04:03:46.88 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:03:46.91 | Joan Cox | but |
| 04:03:47.26 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:03:47.72 | Joan Cox | Okay, I have a few, but go ahead. Oh, sorry. Just the one question is tying into what Council Member Hoffman is talking about. You said 1.7 is the lowest cost option, but I just saw in parking lot number three, the fine DPW team was out there, and there were some really rough spots in parking lot number three. I mean, real car eaters, Council Member's. |
| 04:03:49.96 | Jill Hoffman | No, go ahead. |
| 04:04:08.46 | Joan Cox | Cox's little mini would disappear in one of those holes. Uh, but now it's beautiful. They had a team out there. They scraped it. Good job. DPW. It's a patch job. but it takes care of the worst part of lot three. And my question is, lot one isn't uniformly in terrible shape, there are, all that isn't, But there are some critical points. So would the lowest cost option actually be, and most immediate, some patch repairs to take care of some of the most egregious spots while we maybe sort out some of this other stuff? |
| 04:04:41.55 | Robert Stevens | Totally agree with that. |
| 04:04:44.91 | Steven Woodside | A couple of questions about the visions. You put up some slides that I guess highlighted areas that had previously been looked at in a visionary or conceptual manner. um And my understanding is you had recent discussions with some local designers that might also have different concepts and visions. Can you describe what those were? |
| 04:05:10.64 | Robert Stevens | So we visited Michael Rex's office. Can we go back to the visioning boards? They would be... Forward, forward, forward, forward, forward. |
| 04:05:26.45 | Steven Woodside | You're going backwards. |
| 04:05:33.69 | Robert Stevens | There, there, there, there. Yep. One forward. |
| 04:05:34.44 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 04:05:38.83 | Robert Stevens | Yep, other way. back. That's it. |
| 04:05:42.44 | Unknown | Right. |
| 04:05:42.55 | Robert Stevens | Thank you. Now. Yep. Perfect. |
| 04:05:50.08 | Robert Stevens | So we spend a lot of time |
| 04:06:06.42 | Robert Stevens | So if you look at this sketch right here, This shows... Thank you. the plaza moving out from where the currently Plaza is right we connect everything here right it shows a little parking lot right here this is gabrielson park up here. If we were going to build the bikeway the bikeway would come in through here right. and we preserve the entry to this. And that's so, we spent a lot of time talking about that, right? And that's a very ambitious project. That's a project of many, many, many millions of dollars, right? There are a lot of items to consider in that. When we spent the time talking about that, it sort of triggered me to think about sort of the scenario two. We could get and we could design scenario two so that we could preserve this future parking here and design it so that we didn't have to take anything out. and then allow it to migrate to this in the future. And so that was sort of the inspiration of how we morph scenario two after talking to the local professionals group. |
| 04:07:18.61 | Steven Woodside | And were there any other visions? I see one, it's hard to see from here, but there's one toward the bottom with quite a bit of what looks like green space, SWA, ferry landing vision. |
| 04:07:29.95 | Robert Stevens | This one down here, yeah. So this one here takes away all the parking, and I'm not exactly sure how access to the Yacht Club is managed there, but that's a complete civic space right there. |
| 04:07:45.42 | Steven Woodside | Okay. And were there any others? It's again, it's hard. These are smaller. |
| 04:07:49.13 | Robert Stevens | Yeah, there's all sorts of great ideas in here about how we can accommodate bicycle parking and pedestrian circulation. You know, there's thoughts about shifting the bicycle parking up to the west side of Gabrielsen. There's thoughts about taking the bicycle parking off the plaza. You know, there's ideas about shifting pedestrian circulation. So it encourages us to walk down the Tracy Promenade. There's some beautiful images of arbors on Tracy Promenade. These are all grand ideas, but We can't deliver them for two and a half million dollars. |
| 04:08:25.11 | Steven Woodside | Which of the alternatives would do the, I'll have to think about how to phrase this, would be the most compatible with some of those grander long-term visions. |
| 04:08:40.11 | Robert Stevens | I believe scenario two generally fits with a concept like this, where we preserve access to the yacht club and we keep some on street parking As I understand it, I did see one scheme, and I'm forgetting now who drew it, but it did show something on the order of about 30 stalls on the driveway access to... The Yacht Club, I tried to mimic that design. I could not get the full 30 stalls in there. I think I got 20 stalls in there, but that served as the basis for scenario two. Okay. |
| 04:09:19.62 | Steven Woodside | Yes, remember Cox. |
| 04:09:22.20 | Joan Cox | Um... Thank you. Both scenarios two and three contemplate a large area for special events that can be that to meet long-term visioning of a plaza and or flexible plaza space. And was that derived from these, what, what, in your mind, manifest, we just eliminated Tracy Way and turned that into sort of a plaza. So what in your mind triggered the design need for more plaza space. |
| 04:10:03.54 | Chris Zapata | if i well he's looking uh mayor and council member i want to make sure that um |
| 04:10:04.05 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 04:10:07.75 | Chris Zapata | that it's on the record that it is Tracy Way, not Tracy Promenade. |
| 04:10:11.88 | Joan Cox | I know. |
| 04:10:12.25 | Chris Zapata | Thank you. |
| 04:10:12.39 | Joan Cox | Thank you. |
| 04:10:12.40 | Chris Zapata | . |
| 04:10:12.45 | Steven Woodside | Yeah. I would just mention that I think members of the council gave direction that they would like to see an alternative or have alternatives considered that would allow for future event space, etc. In a very general way. I don't think, I think that may have been the triggering point. |
| 04:10:27.83 | Michelle McCullough | Okay. |
| 04:10:31.61 | Michelle McCullough | All right. |
| 04:10:31.84 | Steven Woodside | I just didn't recall. |
| 04:10:31.99 | Joan Cox | Yeah. THE END OF THE END OF THE all. because of the concern of maintaining I was working with the parking. just didn't recall that there had been direction to incorporate Um, Well, here it is. Yeah, so I don't see that on there. |
| 04:10:52.01 | Robert Stevens | Thank you. So we had heard through stakeholders that, you know. Through which stakeholders? Through our January 29th meeting. Okay. That. There was a desire to potentially have special events that from Tracy Way spilled out into the parking lot, or there was some way we could use this space for a special event. we could still provide some parking accommodation and we could still provide circulation. So, By changing the configuration like we have right now, we remove some of the bottlenecks that are in the current lot to kind of facilitate that sort of circulation. And then in this scenario three, which flips the lot 90 degrees, the idea behind that was over the years, the city might want to remove parking and just continue the plaza working. in a westward direction, and you would still maintain the circulation in that direction. |
| 04:11:55.37 | Joan Cox | um, And then with respect to the tree replacement, something that we did direct, not perhaps in our conversation with you, but a huge concern is the root balls coming up and destroying the pavement. And we talked about I forget what it's called, but you Um, plant trees with cages that go deep enough underground so that it prevents the roots from immediately breaking the surface, but rather they spread out deeper underground. I forget what that. |
| 04:12:28.58 | Robert Stevens | and ask John Gibbs to help me here. |
| 04:12:32.36 | John Gibbs | John Gibbs. John Gibbs from WRT, there's a landscape architect team, Peter Trio and I, supporting the efforts here. Yeah, there's a number of better ways to plant trees. These were planted in whatever compacted old pier had ever existed there. And so some of the schemes, but unfortunately some of the more expensive schemes, include excavating, providing real planting soil, putting in, I think what you're referring to, which are root barriers, which can help prevent roots from |
| 04:13:00.73 | Carolyn Revell | which can help... |
| 04:13:04.86 | John Gibbs | um from going out under the pavement but it still takes some space and some different techniques to do that we could have bigger trees and parking closer but again that's a much more expensive uh kind of proposition |
| 04:13:18.95 | Joan Cox | So my question was whether any of these three designs includes root barriers. |
| 04:13:24.10 | John Gibbs | Thank you. |
| 04:13:24.17 | Joan Cox | Thank you. |
| 04:13:24.19 | John Gibbs | A root barrier unto itself is not a very expensive item. So all three, I think, safely could include that. The challenge is you need more space. If you put in the root barrier, you got to give it dirt behind the root barrier. And that's the expense. |
| 04:13:43.00 | Joan Cox | So then is the answer no, that the, that in order to maintain the existing number of parking spaces, there is not adequate space to include route barriers. with |
| 04:13:55.59 | John Gibbs | Thank you. |
| 04:13:55.61 | Joan Cox | the |
| 04:13:55.96 | John Gibbs | reduced stall size, we could both increase the amount of dirt |
| 04:14:01.30 | Kevin McGowan | And... |
| 04:14:01.51 | John Gibbs | provide root barriers. Great. Thank you so much. |
| 04:14:05.02 | Joan Cox | Thank you, Mayor. |
| 04:14:09.01 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:14:09.02 | Jill Hoffman | Yeah. |
| 04:14:11.03 | Unknown | Oh. |
| 04:14:13.72 | Jill Hoffman | So is there, are there any stalls currently in Sausalito that are your new restaurants? the new compact size. |
| 04:14:28.31 | Unknown | Mm-hmm. |
| 04:14:32.85 | Kevin McGowan | I don't think we know of any, but we haven't done a survey for that. |
| 04:14:36.97 | Jill Hoffman | So I think before that I would be comfortable voting on that, I would want to have some stalls, some, you know, Testa walls painted in Sausalito somewhere at some parking lot so that we can take a look and see, you know, You know, two to three. Well... Probably. Isn't that right? Would that be possible? |
| 04:15:02.45 | Kevin McGowan | I mean, would that be... Yeah, we can do that. |
| 04:15:04.44 | Jill Hoffman | Um, and, uh, I would like to know any have some sort of information on any other cities that have gone from our current size down? Because I know that I park, we all park. here, right, in various places. And sometimes I have a Model 3 Tesla, right? because i care about the environment so i have an electric car um and so it's difficult for me to park that car sometimes in sausalito because we have visitors who come here from all over the place and sometimes they drive big cars because there's a lot of their families in the cars so and i'd like to hear from you know the businesses downtown because they always like to weigh in on the visitors that they like to see in Sausalito and if that's going to impact, if they can't. Because I also know that I go to the village at Corte Madera. Or I think that's what it's called. |
| 04:16:05.06 | Steven Woodside | I'm sorry to interrupt, but it's 9.30. We want to hear from the public, and I'm not hearing any questions. |
| 04:16:11.17 | Jill Hoffman | But when you change the stall size from one size to a smaller size, does that impact the parking patterns? And is that going to impact our revenue? Because parking lot one is our largest revenue producing parking lot in Sausalito. |
| 04:16:25.27 | Kevin McGowan | Yeah, I think the intent is to not reduce the number of parking spaces and other jurisdictions do have smaller sizes. I won't get into it, but I know San Rafael recognizes compact and smaller sizes for regular. |
| 04:16:36.95 | Jill Hoffman | But does that impact parking patterns? And does that impact the way people park? |
| 04:16:41.18 | Kevin McGowan | Does that mean fact the way she I don't understand the question. What is the parking pattern? |
| 04:16:44.83 | Jill Hoffman | So, Because when I drive around and see smaller parking spaces, people park in two spaces. And that's going to decrease our revenue. |
| 04:16:54.13 | Kevin McGowan | I hate it when that happens. |
| 04:16:55.34 | Jill Hoffman | I know. Yes, me too. |
| 04:16:57.71 | Steven Woodside | And we have questions and answers. I really want to hear from the public. |
| 04:17:01.69 | Jill Hoffman | Sultan's coming up to say something. Thank you. |
| 04:17:03.71 | Robert Stevens | I can just say that I've done for 15 years, 20 years, done parking stalls of similar size, both for civic as well as commercial campuses. Yeah. And it makes no difference. If it's a destination people want to come to, they will park. |
| 04:17:20.18 | Jill Hoffman | and you do these in pay lots? Yes. Okay. I'll follow up with you with any metrics that you have. Thank you so much for that information. |
| 04:17:28.40 | Steven Woodside | Okay. I do want to hear from the public. Are there any more questions from the dais? |
| 04:17:34.16 | Joan Cox | I guess I did have a question for this gentleman. One of the notions was, um, I wanted to show you a picture. Show a picture on this thing. just ask you if you saw this and whether it influenced your your, your question. So if you are what, I just wanted to show a picture. task. about this holistic thinking and how it might influence you. I sent you a request to share my screen. Okay, well, maybe it doesn't matter. I'll try to do it later. But the question is, I've seen some, oh, here it goes. Let me just show, a picture is worth a thousand words. I'm sorry, I'm so tired of like, not able to think straight. So this little drawing here is an example of a of a scheme where it looks like these little dots are parking spots. And by thinking, I know Mayor Cox has been working on moving the buses, or it's been a dream of moving the buses. And if we had a different place to put the buses, and we used Bay Street as a two-way street, you could get 16 spots on Humboldt, and you could expend the parking lot number one, into Anchor Way and get in total here between these numbers, 25 new spots on parking lot number one, 28 spots around Humboldt, five more, you get 53. net new spots. So it's not just preserving parking, but you're increasing parking. And I know this was not in your scope to think about other parking lots, but if you thought about the work we're going to be doing here for a million or two or three million dollars as the first step along this journey, We want to make sure that what we invested in Parker Lot number one was compatible with a scheme like this. And I'm wondering if you... had seen this and if not whether whether it's possible to, since there's still more work to do, to consider where we might be going and not just limit yourself to preserving parking, but perhaps even getting in this case, 50 more parking spots, which, you know, $5,000 a spot that could pay for the whole project. |
| 04:19:35.03 | Steven Woodside | asking him if he's concerned |
| 04:19:36.18 | Joan Cox | Yeah. |
| 04:19:36.30 | Steven Woodside | And... |
| 04:19:36.47 | Joan Cox | I'm wondering if he's seen it. I didn't know if he saw it. |
| 04:19:38.10 | Joan Cox | This is a letter from Carolyn Revell sent to staff on the day of the workshop. |
| 04:19:38.61 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. |
| 04:19:44.53 | Joan Cox | that's where this... came from. |
| 04:19:47.45 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:19:47.50 | Joan Cox | Yeah. |
| 04:19:48.13 | Unknown | or something. |
| 04:19:48.19 | Joan Cox | Did you? |
| 04:19:48.21 | Robert Stevens | Did you? |
| 04:19:48.50 | Joan Cox | Thank you. |
| 04:19:48.63 | Robert Stevens | you |
| 04:19:48.68 | Joan Cox | Thank you. |
| 04:19:48.83 | Robert Stevens | I think that that's another grand idea. I think that I think it's a great idea. |
| 04:19:54.25 | Joan Cox | Thank you. But it's not something you considered as part of these three scenarios. |
| 04:20:02.79 | Robert Stevens | Thank you. again, We thought about a lot of things in the fall. I thought about expanding parking outside of lot one. But again, that wasn't the journey we were sent on. |
| 04:20:17.84 | Steven Woodside | So you were instructed not to go beyond the, essentially the boundaries of parking lot one. |
| 04:20:24.24 | Robert Stevens | My understanding that this is a parking lot resurfacing Repaving lot one. |
| 04:20:30.15 | Babette McDougall | a tree question of a tree question. |
| 04:20:33.96 | Steven Woodside | If it's a true question, sure. |
| 04:20:35.31 | Babette McDougall | Pre-quels. |
| 04:20:36.03 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 04:20:36.17 | Babette McDougall | Thank you. |
| 04:20:36.34 | Steven Woodside | Tree tree question. Okay. |
| 04:20:38.67 | Jill Hoffman | I'm sorry. . This is a true tree question. So the trees in Party Line 1. talking about budget stuff, right? So, We're talking about budget issues and we like We like foliage and trees, the landscaping in the parking lot. So, and council member to come up with or play off Councilmember Cox's questions. So with regard to budget and the 38 trees that we have in the lot right now, varying degrees of health. Um, we can slowly over time replace those trees depending on budget. And we can various methods to extend the life of those trees. We can also address those over time. depending on budget. |
| 04:21:25.72 | Steven Woodside | Can we have a question, please? Because we really want to hear from the audience. It's now 25 minutes to 10. |
| 04:21:31.18 | Jill Hoffman | But I'm asking that if that's true. We don't have to replace them all in one swoop, right? We can do that over time, depending on budget. Is that a strategy we can employ? |
| 04:21:41.71 | John Gibbs | If the configuration of the lot stays the same, then the trees, you know, this tree is not in the way somewhere. That would allow us to retain the tree. The other issue is related to how deep we treat the pavement section. And the better pavement would go a lot deeper, which would impact those tree roots. And so we might start to see some immediate decline by improving the asphalt that might decline the tree. So better asphalt, more impacts to the trees. |
| 04:22:15.97 | Jill Hoffman | Okay, thanks. |
| 04:22:17.64 | Steven Woodside | Okay, I really would like to hear from the public. We've got four speaker cards for me. Any more? Okay, so the first one, I'm just going to take these in order I see them, Jacques Ullmann. Thank you for being here, Jacques. |
| 04:22:43.51 | Jacques Ullmann | Good evening. Um, I think that from all the discussion we've had just now, there should be serious consideration to just the minimal project, because we don't know so much about the future. And we might want to just put the minimum amount of money into this now and make things work for a while and be more flexible for the future. But if we want to go further, then the recommended direction, too, does reflect some of what we discussed at our meeting with Robert and Sarah. But disappointingly, And most importantly, it still shows bicycle parking on the plaza and additional bike parking next to it in the handicapped area. And I mean, We have completed our new... Ferry Landing Plaza. But it's not going to be successful. if we don't deal with the bicycle circulation and we have to get them off the plaza. There's a bullet point for wayfinding enhancement but no specifics. There should be a reference to our bicycle circulation diagram. When I say our, I mean the design professional group. And there should be a reference to the diagram, item 5 on page 13. All of our recommendations relative to wayfinding are contained in that diagram, including the bike parking at the north edge of Gableson Park. These recommendations are absolutely imperative for the new ferry landing plaza to function in the manner that an overwhelming majority It can't have been that fast. |
| 04:24:49.02 | Unknown | Two minutes, yeah. |
| 04:24:51.00 | Jacques Ullmann | No, no, I didn't take that long. |
| 04:24:54.29 | Steven Woodside | We have only four more speaker cards, so please continue. |
| 04:24:59.91 | Jacques Ullmann | Okay. |
| 04:25:00.28 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:25:01.39 | Jacques Ullmann | So these recommendations are absolutely imperative for the new ferry landing plaza to function in the manner that an overwhelming majority of the public insisted on the February 2024 Council hearing, and for it to meet the requirements in the scope of the Federal Transit Agency grant. Bicycles must be kept off the plaza. So this is a short time. I won't go with the rest. I'll just say that... When bicycles come down Bridgeway, if they see bicycle parking on the plaza, they're going to go down toward it. So you can't have that visual and you've got to have just like the striping that's being put on Bridgeway now, you have to have that green and white striping and direction that leads people where you want them to go. I know it's not the scope of parking lot one, but it has to be done so that all of this works together. That's all I can say. |
| 04:26:07.75 | Steven Woodside | Okay, thank you, Jacques. Carolyn Revelle. |
| 04:26:17.65 | Carolyn Revell | Good evening again, Amir. Woodside and members of the council Parking lot one is the front door to Sausalito for the many visitors arriving by ferry. The need to repave the lot provides an opportunity not only to make physical and circulation improvements, but to integrate the lot into the center of Sausalito. Please expand the scope of the project to include a wider area, anchor, bay, and Humboldt Street, for example. to provide a comprehensive design A design requires a designer. Please add a design consultant to the team. and involved the local professionals group to a larger extent than They spent so many hours studying the circulation patterns and other issues for the recently completed ferry landing project. The current consultant assessed the health of the 38 Indian laurel fig trees, only a few of which are in good condition, It does make sense to replace all the trees with salt tolerant species and with adequate soil volume. But if we're going to start over with new trees, please ensure that they're part of a comprehensive, long-term design that will allow the trees to grow and flourish for many years as part of a welcoming Sausalito downtown public space. It's not a question of trees or parking spaces. With a comprehensive design, we can have both. Thank you. |
| 04:27:34.94 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. Charles Melton |
| 04:27:42.11 | Charles Melton | Good evening. Thank you for the opportunity to invite comments tonight. My name is Charles Meltzen, Saucyida resident. I'm also a frequent ferry rider. Um, and I'm at the terminal multiple times a week. I also attended the public listening session. I want to thank mayor Woodside and council member Hoffman for attending that session and also council member Hoffman for being there throughout the entire process. Thank you. That really shows commitment and I truly mean it. Parking lot one may be the most valuable piece of public land the city owns and certainly the most complicated is the nexus of a ferry terminal, a hotel, a visitor booth, a city tenant, two parks, the waterfront, and a major street. In other words, it's not just a parking lot. It is the crossroads of Sausalito. Because it's so important, I'm proposing something that may sound counterintuitive. Slow down. Right now, this process is boxed in by a limited work scope and a tight budget cap. When you look at a critical public site through a keyhole, you don't get great solutions. You get half measures. Some of the comments here tonight regarding the Paseo. As a frequent ferry rider, what I see, even if you put a path in there, even if a car has access, people are still going to drive through the parking lot and drop off right there at the curbside. A drop-off point on Anchor or any other street isn't going to prevent people or cars from driving through a parking lot. Same thing with a Waymo. I could book a Waymo to drop me off at the Yacht Club and then walk to the ferry terminal. As long as there's access for cars, no matter the way, people are going to use it as a drop-off point. There's talks about parking lots, individuals parking in other lots other than parking lot one. That is because our commuter rate is designed only for parking lot number three. That is by design. To also save the city staff some time, I encourage looking at the smaller parking spaces, smaller small car spaces in parking lot three. They start at space 304 and are the subsequent spaces after that. Those are the parking spaces near Sausalito Books by the Bay. Those already exist here in Sausalito. Um, More importantly, I think the worst thing we can do is to move fast. And parking lot is too important to rush. This isn't just about where cars go. It's about where Sausalito goes. So let's pause, refocus, and make sure we get this right. Thank you. |
| 04:29:47.07 | Steven Woodside | Thank you, Charles. Michelle Dumont. |
| 04:29:58.82 | Michelle Dumont | Hi, I'm Michelle Dumas. I'm an architect that lives here in Sal Salado and practices And we've heard it from everyone else, but I just want to reiterate that The parking lot really is the front door. Last week in one of the city's postings, or maybe a group on social media supported, maybe the chamber, I can't remember, But it described Sausalito as the Venice of the West. It was very inspirational. But I read it and I thought like this absolutely is the Venice of the West. It's a wonderful comparison. But let's pause for a moment because Venice doesn't even allow cars. And somehow the front door of our Sausalito you know, the ferry, everything, it's a parking lot. And we spent so much time talking about it today. tonight. So really what I believe as a local designer is we really have to open up that parking lot We have to show all those businesses from the ferry landing. and not look at all those cars. And I'm going to continue to be inspirational and come here to you guys. I was really shocked that so many of those original sketches weren't looked at. I know that happens. I'm a designer. That happens to me every day, all the time. But please slow this down. expand the scope, let's find the money, let's do it right. And let's bring on, in addition to the team, we have some local consultants to help. Um, That's it. Thank you so much. Let's make Sausalito a little bit the place we all believe and want it to be. |
| 04:31:51.86 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. Sharner Brockett. |
| 04:31:59.39 | Sharna Brockett | Good evening, Council members. So I also want to reiterate what some other folks here in the room have said that You know, I really appreciate the work that's been done on parking lot one, but I do worry that we're gonna really miss an opportunity And it's a really, you know, these opportunities don't come along all the time. It's, I call it a once in a generation opportunity. So we'd have to probably wait another 20 years or so to be able to touch this again. So let's do it right. If we're gonna invest, you know, over 1.7 million in our downtown, let's just really, you know, spend the time to do it right. And that, Um, you know, it would be great if we could expand the scope to include a more holistic kind of plan for what's going on down there. and then take off, you know, do pieces and stages as we have the budget. Um, I would just hate for us to design something and really, um, get ourselves stuck in a situation where you have to spend more money in the future to retrofit it, to fit the new, the future. So that's it. So yeah, if you could please take these into consideration, I would love to see a local design consultant and this team to work closer with the the the local professionals group as well. Thank you. |
| 04:33:13.64 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. I see no more public comments coming from, we have some online. |
| 04:33:19.46 | Walfred Solorzano | We have a card from Joe Carr. This would be somewhere. |
| 04:33:23.53 | Steven Woodside | A CAR. |
| 04:33:25.01 | Walfred Solorzano | Joel. |
| 04:33:25.89 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. |
| 04:33:25.94 | Walfred Solorzano | All right. |
| 04:33:26.06 | Steven Woodside | Joel, I don't see Joel. No? |
| 04:33:28.12 | Walfred Solorzano | Yeah. Oh, it's online. Okay. |
| 04:33:30.80 | Steven Woodside | He must be online. |
| 04:33:34.02 | Walfred Solorzano | Thank you. |
| 04:33:34.04 | Joan Cox | He must have left. |
| 04:33:35.53 | Walfred Solorzano | So we do We have a bit McDougal Okay. I bet. |
| 04:33:41.87 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. |
| 04:33:44.86 | Babette McDougall | Thank you very much. Well, You know, this, really is a subject that's near and dear to just about everybody that I know in Sausalito. to their hearts. And here's why I say that. Believe it or not, I'm so wonderfully glad to hear that that young lady characterizes Venice of the West because there are neighbors of mine who honestly believe that all of those parking lots should be put somewhere else and that we need jitneys. And I'm so glad to hear that Molten Peters has moved forward with that autonomous experiment because I think Sausalito was perfect for that. We need jitneys. Wouldn't it be wonderful if the school children got to paint them? I think we could make it a whole community project. It could be so much fun. we could show what they could do in a neighborhood. Now, that's a good idea. So I think if we're going to do anything, I totally endorse what Mr. Melton has said. At the same time, I totally endorse Jacques Ullman. Because the truth of the matter is, if we have to do something, then we got to do the increment that is the least expensive if it's going to tide us over while we make a more informed choice. Because. Obviously, people are now really trained on the question, just how grand a plaza You know, shall we dwarf Piazza San Marco at last? I say yes. Absolutely. You go anywhere in Italy, you turn a corner and you're in a piazza. And there's life there. There's music, there's performance, there's art. And people are gathered there together, whether they're visitors or locals, it doesn't matter. So why can't we be that? Why can't we? We're going to sink too. Okay, we got a lot in common. Thank you. I yield back my time. |
| 04:35:32.42 | Walfred Solorzano | Okay, next speaker, Jeffrey S. |
| 04:35:42.00 | Steven Woodside | Jeffrey? |
| 04:35:42.85 | Jeffrey Stafford | Yes, hello. I took a second to sign in there with the audio. Good evening, Mayor and members of the council. My name is Jeffrey Stafford. I'm an architect and I live here in in Sausalito. And I want to focus on one simple point tonight in that Parking lot one deserves a cohesive design process. A process that arrives at multiple options that get us more than just new asphalt and a few trees and then we're just looking at cars again in the end. This site is one of the most visible places in our city, and for many visitors, it's the first thing they experience when they arrive by ferry. And the proposals in front of you, they feel a bit like maintenance fixes or rearranging furniture in a fixed room. Yeah. This location is much more than just pavement and parking stripes. It connects the Ferry Landing, Anchor Street, Tracy Way, El Portal, Gabrielson Park, and the heart of downtown. So when you look at it that way, it becomes clear This is not just a parking lot project or it shouldn't be. It's an opportunity to improve how this entire area works and how it flows or feels. And right now, the three options presented tonight, just don't rise to that opportunity. And I would just strongly encourage the council not to move forward with any of these. and instead take a step back, do the proper study of the area more holistically, Sausalito is known for design, creativity, beautiful places. And as someone else said, you know, this is the front door to our city and any design proposal should reflect that. Thank you. |
| 04:37:08.06 | Walfred Solorzano | Thank you. Anyone else online? Yes, we have Kieran Culligan. |
| 04:37:14.88 | Kieran Culligan | I am Kieran Kelligan, South Sea resident. I just got back from Basel, Switzerland, and Vermont, visiting my ally in advocacy, Aaron Roller. And I got to see their underground bike storage and car-free cities, you know, bridges, like dedicated only to public transit. And it was inspirational about what's possible with thoughtful designs. Um, All of these comments, including what we heard from the the design team also inspired me tonight. I mean, hearing people talk about the autonomous future, recognizing what we're seeing from saltwater incursion from below, from sea level rise from the side, stormwater from above, like there is a recognition that there is major change as a threat, but also as an opportunity of what we can do in this entire area. And When we talk about plazas, maybe it's not just a plaza. Maybe there's buildings. Maybe there's interactions. Maybe there's art. Maybe there's The resilience that we want to build in and I don't see that in any of these. Um, Yes. that parking lot is in rough shape. It needs some help. There are safety issues, but like, the concept of doing the bare minimum now, thinking about where we want to go. I'm impatient. I don't want to wait 20 years for the car-free vision, but maybe I'll have to wait. But I think setting the steps in motion for where we want to go and getting really excited about it feels much more valuable as a next step than essentially sinking $2.5 million into something that no one's really going to be particularly happy about. So thank you for picking up on this topic. Thank you for the comments on the Greenway. wayfinding is important a lot of the aspects I think we can some can be incorporated sooner here And I'm just happy that this is part of the conversation. Thanks. |
| 04:39:13.18 | Steven Woodside | Okay. Anyone else online? Thank you. |
| 04:39:15.39 | Walfred Solorzano | Yes, Lorna Newland. |
| 04:39:19.59 | Lorna Newland | Hello again. I just want to say I was... I really applaud all of you, the fantastic questions from the dais, the public comments coming up on this. It's a similar theme to what several of us said about the Coloma Street is really look at this, do it right, do it right the first time. I have the feeling it as some of these people are talking about what we need to do in the future, it may cost a little more now, but construction costs are going to be less now and get to where we really want to be because we can't keep, we keep trying to do something every 10, 20 years or whatever, but Think about all the different comments that came in and, uh, Don't rush into it. I know we have parking lot problems and we have, um, routes and things like that. But I'll start looking around at parking spaces too. I'm very curious about that myself. I like the conceptual of, of, of, what matters to me personally. But, and personally, I'm not a fan of Waymo. I'll put that out there. I don't know if in our small town, it's really the way to go. But thank you for all of the design and the comments, especially around trees and what we can do to make this the best plaza and parking lot ever. Thank you. |
| 04:40:51.32 | Steven Woodside | Anyone else? |
| 04:40:51.95 | Walfred Solorzano | No further public comment? |
| 04:40:52.92 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. Okay, back to the dais. I'm concerned that it's just before 10. And from the looks of things, we're all tired. This is a very important topic. So having said that, Ian, would you like to say something? |
| 04:41:07.71 | Joan Cox | Thank you. Yeah, I, uh, You know, I... was worried about this direction back when we selected this approach. And I'm afraid we are where I was worried we might end up with. And I'm trying to think of where to go from here, just in my own point of view. I hate to spend $1.7 million, even the lowest project on something so unambitious, which itself might lay lead to future problems with trees and upwelling treatment of the tree balls, maintenance headache. That's a lot of money. We have a lot of infrastructure demands in Sausalito. I'd rather spend $1.7 million on our storm drains that are have severe defects before we just in terms of stack ranking our priorities. So I'm not in a rush to spend the money on a, on something that, um, that, doesn't hit on all cylinders. that So I don't know where we are with the thought. You know, I'm inspired by what our customer over Cox talked about with moving the buses. If we one day can figure that out. The schematic I showed is exciting to me 53 more parking spots which could pay for the entire project it wouldn't we could have our cake and eat it too we can have our storm drain repair and our new parking lot there but that comes out of a more holistic approach so by scoping the project narrowly i think we may have confused ourselves because we were only wanting to put money into a particular area but we wanted the that to be part of a larger concept. And somehow we didn't articulate that, I think, well, and the consultants did what they were told to do within the dotted red line, but that dotted lead line meant different things to different people. So. I think we are like an old Victorian house that has a bunch of hallways and a lot of small rooms. And we could use that floor space more efficiently. If you knock out a wall, the hallway becomes part of the room. And all of a sudden you get more space without adding any square footage. And our downtown is 92% paved, but it's not as efficient as it could be. Now, where to go from here i don't know exactly but i don't i think the options either if we could stop the contract and not have to pay more on it that maybe is an option i don't know if that's legal language and and i'm not mean that anything personally but it feels like the same kind of spot repairs we did on lot three we could do on lot one just take care of the worst spots an alternative would be to uh broaden the, not the scope of the project, but the scope of the vision that the project fits into. And this would be phase one of that project. If you're going to do what that drawing is, the schematic I put up there to get those 53 parking spaces, you'd want to make sure that what you did with lot one fit in like a jigsaw puzzle piece into that scheme. If it's a jigsaw puzzle piece that doesn't fit, well, now you've just wasted money. and specifically you know we you know we had this competition it seems obvious to me just like with the stop sign thing on olima like a little it's just obvious what to do like we have this professional landscape architecture firm that's in saslito that's worked here all this time that that studied the area they should be part of the project in some way so my straw man would be to maybe up to city manager authority or something hire them add them to the team so to be either stop the work and pick it up again at a later date and just patch prepare it. add uh add swa to the team and and help that help this phase of the project fit in more like a jigsaw puzzle piece into the future thank you |
| 04:44:38.26 | Steven Woodside | So those are kind of different alternatives. I recognize that. Member Cox. |
| 04:44:43.78 | Joan Cox | Thank you. And I agree with a lot of what you said, Councilmember Sobieski. You know, when I was on the Planning Commission in 2010, we tried to figure out how to have a bicycle path to how to welcome our bicyclists throughout our downtown. And we struggled with this same thing. Do we focus just on lot one or do we focus on lots one through four or do we focus on the entirety of Sausalito? It's kind of hard to spot zone or to spot plan. Um, That being said, when Bill Werner, a former beloved architect, looked at this project back in 2016, when we first got $2.5 million from the state of California for the ferry land side improvements, he estimated it would cost $2.5 million to reach just to redesign and restripe lot one. So the fact, I could not be more happy with the work that this consultant has done thus far, this consulting team has done thus far. I was thrilled with the way they addressed the questions that we asked tonight. I thought I liked, you know, they had talked with a bunch of the stakeholders. purposely did not attend the meeting because I didn't want to have a majority of council members there, but I am thrilled that they conducted the meeting. I would like to see us take your option to Council Member Sobieski and expand the scope of their visioning, even though we can only afford to undertake improvements to lot one at this time. I do not want us to stop this project. We have been promising the ferry landing, our customers, to improve lot one forever. We put that aside in order to adopt your vision of improving Tracy way and creating a downtown plaza. We did that. I do not now want to forsake our residents and businesses by not undertaking needed improvements to lot one. So I would rather, Thank you. increase the scope of the consultants design responsibility to be able to explore something such as what Carolyn Revell suggested, which is to include Anchor, Bay, Humboldt, and how improvements to lot one could integrate with potential future improvements to those surrounding areas, time permitting. So that's what I'd like to explore as a possibility. Thank you. |
| 04:47:32.85 | Steven Woodside | I want to make sure we hear from everybody, but since you introduced the topic and you've responded, I'll just ask you, is what she suggested acceptable? |
| 04:47:45.40 | Joan Cox | Well, I'm definitely interested in my retail. I understand. But yeah, I mean, it's option two. Yeah. Yeah. |
| 04:47:48.02 | Steven Woodside | I understand. |
| 04:47:51.95 | Joan Cox | I believe a part of mine was to hire SWA under city manager authority to add to the design mix. So that's an extra whatever that is, 60K, because that's a bunch of institutional knowledge. And so that was part of my proposal. But yes. that's, That's the direction of it. Okay. Yes. |
| 04:48:07.57 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:48:07.88 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. |
| 04:48:08.01 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:48:08.03 | Steven Woodside | So. |
| 04:48:08.32 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:48:09.55 | Steven Woodside | Yeah. |
| 04:48:10.66 | Jill Hoffman | after So I think, you know, we've been looking at the ferry landing now for, I think, two years. Yeah, well, 10 years. Okay, let's just go with 10. |
| 04:48:19.45 | Michelle Dumont | Thank you. |
| 04:48:22.71 | Jill Hoffman | um and we spent a lot of time on this project in 24 25 now it's 26. and we purposefully did not spend some of the grant money that we got from the ferry landing from the golden gate bridge district and the federal money on the parking lot purposefully did not even though we probably could have but we decided not to and we took the money out of our city budget And we spent extra money to pave Tracy Way, a lot of extra money, pave Tracy way. that was not part of that budget either. And so we did a lot of work beautifying everything around the parking lot. And so now this was about let's redo the parking lot. And so, and I'm not, uh, I'm happy that we're working on this and we specifically decided to go with, um, the design team that we picked and. You know, we were close to being finished last, almost a year ago in May. and issuing you know, the RFP and we decided to do a little bit more work almost a year ago and here we are now looking to expand again. And so I think to Councilmember Sobieski's point and some of the other points that we've had is we're kind of at an inflection point. And we're at an inflection point with design or inflection point with technology and what's going to happen in the future. I don't disagree that we're at an inflection point, but I think we're really at a point where we need to repay the parking lot. And that's going to cost about, I mean, Is Kevin even still in the room? Yeah. I mean, yeah, Kevin, we talked about this, like, what, a year and a half ago? It was going to be 1.5 just to repay the parking lot. So we can't keep kicking the can down the road that we need to repave the parking lot. Every the outline around the parking lot looks really great. The new sidewalk looks great. When you get off the ferry, everything looks great. The parking lot's a mess. I mean, you've got You've got uneven pavement, it's a trip risk. I mean, we can't just leave it. And we specifically decided not to include grandiose or even, not even grandiose, just, you know, design. elements or design teams as part of this plan, because we wanted to just, you know, move forward with these design elements with regard to a parking lot. Right. So I think we need to finish that. I'm not saying that we shouldn't. go more uh in depth but i want to finish this especially with regard to budget with regard to what's going on with it holistically with our budget as it exists now so that's the path i think when you go |
| 04:51:18.67 | Steven Woodside | I aspire. |
| 04:51:19.71 | Jill Hoffman | grateful. Thank you. |
| 04:51:21.52 | Melissa Blaustein | Well, I'm aware that we have worked on the ferry landing for probably a decade, and I think That's because it's the doorway to our town. It's one of the most beautiful, potentially the most beautiful pieces of our Venice by... by the sea, there's so much potential there. And when I hear from the people making public comment tonight, they are very respected architects, land use, city planners, people who have spent their entire careers thinking about what is the best approach to making community zoning or community projects work. And much of that comment. feedback that we've received has been, slow down, we can do better than just repaving this parking lot. And I really believe we can do so much better than just repaving this parking lot. We need to look, as Carolyn Marvell pointed out, and as Council Member Cox reinforced, at circulation as a whole. We need to look at the entire area. One of the things that I have been so frustrated with during my time on council and just generally in city government is the reaction approach instead of the proactive approach. And just finding a problem like, oh, there's a pothole. Let's spend the budget to fix the pothole. And we get in this cycle over and over again where we're just making the improvements one by one instead of slowing down, stopping and having the time and foresight to have a comprehensive strategy and vision for what we want our community to really look like. Myself and Council Member Sobieski, really, really tried to get a master planning process going for some of our towns so that we can answer some of these bigger questions, because I think we deserve that consideration. I think we have great consultants here who have said to us very clearly, well, if you plan to have it be a plaza at some point, this isn't the best approach right now. And I tend to side with Councilmember Sobieski in that I'd rather not spend two and a half million dollars just to pour some pavement when we have bigger ideas and bigger dreams for our downtown and for our community as a whole. I would like to support the idea of expanding the design scope to include, you know, the landscape architects we mentioned, and perhaps to just really consider the circulation as a whole. And if we can find a very minimalist approach to fixing some of the places where paving is reneeded most urgently in lot one. Okay, maybe we can do that, but I'd rather reallocate the funds to improving some of the other pressing infrastructure challenges or just to generally focusing in on the visioning and what's possible and what circulation looks like. And then we can go after grants like the North South Greenway. There's a lot of funding available for investing in those kinds of grants. There's a lot of opportunity for public private partnership with automated vehicles. There's just so much more work to do. And the people who commented and offered us that tonight I really respect. So I am inclined to support Councilmember Sobieski's approach here. And I think there is some middle ground with Councilmember Cox and Councilmember Sobieski. So thank you. |
| 04:54:27.56 | Steven Woodside | I won't add too much other than to say that My recollection is, is that We specifically did not want to just repave parking lot one that we wanted to get a team together. to explore options that went beyond. And it's perhaps our fault that we may have narrowed the scope too much at the outset and didn't give the team enough flexibility. And It's for that reason that I support what's been suggested for all those reasons. owe it to our community to spend the dollars wisely. And putting $1.7 million into something that is, in fact, temporary and may or may not lead to a better long-term circulation pattern there, visitor-serving, community-serving space would be a mistake in my mind. Without knowing, what some of the alternatives are. And I think it's unfair to have expected Mr. Stevens and the team to come up with the comprehensive view, given the scope that we gave them. So I think what we're talking about is, yes, I don't want to say slow down. It's being smart going forward. And let's move forward quickly as we can uh enlarge the team has been suggested I think I know um member Cox has for a long time been concerned about bus parking and that whole area We can't ignore it, and especially if it provides an opportunity for additional parking spots, which takes perhaps less pressure off of parking lot one area and so on. My own personal view is that we have some of the most valuable real estate in the Bay. and all we're doing is parking cars on it. We've got five parking lots. right close to the water. That is... Stepping back from it doesn't make economic sense. to me. And it doesn't make community sense. If that's what we're putting at the top of the list, that's our priority. It shouldn't be so. I thank all those who commented and I know We're going to have to do something, though, to repair, maybe short term, to get rid of the worst hazards, if you will, or potential hazards in terms of roots. But if you just put pavement over the roots, they're going to come back unless they've been properly planted in the first place, which they weren't. So I said more than I thought I would, but it's 10 after 10. Um, |
| 04:57:01.60 | Jill Hoffman | Mayor, may I make some comments? So we've been, are we going to put any time constraints on, so we're scoping this out. Are we putting any time constraints and budget constraints on what we're scoping this out? Because we're, now it looks like we're going far beyond our $2.5 million budget and probably far beyond the $3.5. |
| 04:57:02.51 | Steven Woodside | Yes. |
| 04:57:27.03 | Steven Woodside | I don't think we know that yet. And I think that's why we want a team, if I can just respond, I don't think we know that yet. There may be opportunities to when you look at a broader scope, if you will, circulation, other alternatives, that we can, within the amount budgeted, take the incremental steps. I don't know who it was who suggested, once you have the larger plan in place, then you can decide what you can afford and when. |
| 04:57:58.33 | Jill Hoffman | And we're still at 144 stalls because that's |
| 04:58:01.76 | Steven Woodside | I think that's one of the ground rules right now. And it's not a legal question. It's a question of right now, given the state of our transportation systems or lack of them, we don't want to reduce parking in a critical downtown area at the moment. went. And maybe never, maybe we build a parking garage and put some housing on top of it. I don't know. |
| 04:58:23.54 | Jill Hoffman | I'm sorry. |
| 04:58:23.56 | Unknown | know. |
| 04:58:24.25 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 04:58:24.96 | Steven Woodside | Not there necessarily, but it's a pretty valuable piece of real estate to simply pave. |
| 04:58:25.06 | Jill Hoffman | not. to the next. |
| 04:58:30.83 | Jill Hoffman | I think the current, what the council's currently budgeted though is 2.5 million. So we'd have to come back to us to increase that budget. |
| 04:58:38.31 | Steven Woodside | If we have a project that |
| 04:58:38.43 | Joan Cox | Right. Right now we just have a budget for consulting services. |
| 04:58:44.17 | Melissa Blaustein | I don't think that we have agreed as a, as a, at the dais that, at least I don't think Ian and I are in favor of spending the full budgeted 1.7 |
| 04:58:44.20 | Joan Cox | Thank you. |
| 04:58:52.89 | Melissa Blaustein | on repaving at this point. I think we would like us to revisit that. I don't think that's what we're proposing. Yeah, so then we're still under budget. We're not going over the 2.5. |
| 04:58:55.84 | Jill Hoffman | I don't know. |
| 04:58:56.03 | Joan Cox | Revisit. |
| 04:58:56.59 | Jill Hoffman | Yeah. Yeah. |
| 04:59:01.04 | Jill Hoffman | Yeah. |
| 04:59:01.43 | Melissa Blaustein | Thank you. |
| 04:59:01.67 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 04:59:01.72 | Melissa Blaustein | Thank you. |
| 04:59:01.73 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 04:59:01.75 | Melissa Blaustein | Thank you. |
| 04:59:01.83 | Jill Hoffman | I'm not. |
| 04:59:02.26 | Joan Cox | I don't think we need to slow down. I think you're quite right. And the thought here is, I guess the narrow proposal if we're taking this option too is to authorize the city manager up to his authority to hire SWA to add to the team as institution knowledge and visioning. But the first step of is focused on parking lot number one. It's just to make it a jigsaw puzzle piece that fits into a larger concept, but parking lot number one piece will be the first thing we do repave and it might be soon if this project effort shouldn't take a long time if we're if we keep if we're keeping going then adding that to the team will help influence their version one to fit in like a jigsaw puzzle piece. And, and it will, and presumably don't be something we can authorize. We don't, |
| 04:59:42.44 | Steven Woodside | And we don't. We don't know that yet. We don't know that. Because we need the possibility. We need to hear more about that possibility. |
| 04:59:45.19 | Joan Cox | I don't know that. |
| 04:59:49.83 | Jill Hoffman | May I ask one thing? |
| 04:59:50.03 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. |
| 04:59:52.44 | Jill Hoffman | I think the current condition of parking lot one can't. we can't continue with the current condition of parking lot one. I mean, we just can't legal, I mean, illegally, there's trip hazards all over the place. I just don't think we can continue with it as is. |
| 05:00:05.93 | Joan Cox | if I might respond to this construction project wouldn't have started until next year. So my thought is that- |
| 05:00:12.03 | Unknown | If we're not gonna do it, then we should. |
| 05:00:13.17 | Joan Cox | My thought is that within two months or so, we should know whether or not there's a there there from this thing we're authorizing tonight. And so within two months, we could decide what to do. is what I'm thinking. |
| 05:00:25.42 | Joan Cox | Can we ask the consultant how much time he would need to expand the scope of his visioning to accommodate the vision? diagram that you showed and the scope suggested by Carolyn Revell to include Anchor Bay and Humboldt in the planning effort. Yeah. Thank you. |
| 05:00:45.51 | Joan Cox | Thank you. |
| 05:00:45.53 | Joan Cox | And... |
| 05:00:45.58 | Joan Cox | That's a question. So you saw that diagram. I know that it was rough, but especially with the extra help, |
| 05:00:45.78 | Joan Cox | That's a question. |
| 05:00:51.35 | Joan Cox | that would be authorizing, would you be able to factor that into some concepts? |
| 05:00:56.25 | Robert Stevens | Oh, most definitely. I mean, we already sort of sketched this and I think having help from other folks would be great. The only question I would have is, is there's a lot of stakeholders that could potentially be involved in this and that's the process that I think is a little more complicated that could slow things down. |
| 05:01:13.56 | Joan Cox | Thank you. |
| 05:01:14.32 | Joan Cox | Well, I thought, you know, in my view, we have, we have. |
| 05:01:15.52 | Joan Cox | Well, But what is the timing? If we wanted you to come back to us with some refined designs, if it's just |
| 05:01:23.97 | Robert Stevens | you know, |
| 05:01:24.83 | Joan Cox | Thank you. |
| 05:01:24.97 | Robert Stevens | the team, and we're not having community meetings or engaging with transit folks because we know that Marine Transit does have comments about bus circulation in this area. that we haven't addressed. which would be something we probably want to do. I- I mean, |
| 05:01:43.51 | Joan Cox | So we, the, the Councilmember Sobieski and I have been trying for months now to reconvene with Marin Transit to address some to address bus parking and circulation. And so I think we would prefer to continue our efforts before you try to incorporate something that may be subject to change. |
| 05:02:05.38 | Joan Cox | within to my mind that's exactly right and remember every phase of any kind of project has to live on its own so whatever this element would be, this jigsaw puzzle piece that fit into a larger scheme, if there's a gating item like Marin Transit needs to cooperate and that takes three years, you don't wait three years. But you make sure the jigsaw puzzle piece fits in and makes sense all on its own, but also fits in with the hope that eventually you'd work it out with Marin Transit and be able to exceed the larger vision. So in this case, it's not a bunch of public meetings or interactions with other agencies, it's drawing in this additional landscape. |
| 05:02:39.79 | Joan Cox | But I would like them to include the local professionals group and Sausalito Beautiful in their in there. uh, caucus efforts. |
| 05:02:49.83 | Jill Hoffman | I think, I think that that's a lot of people. I think retaining SWA is good, I think. I think that's good. Honestly, I think adding in the local professionals group and other groups is a lot for these guys to have to deal with. I mean, honestly, let's, I mean, that's because we tried to, we tried to narrow that down at the beginning. That's why we narrowed it down. So and they've given lots of input now. |
| 05:03:14.03 | Natalie Butts | Thank you. |
| 05:03:17.02 | Jill Hoffman | Right? You had lots of input. Yeah. And you guys sat down with them and met with that group. |
| 05:03:24.19 | Robert Stevens | We had a long conversation about parking lot one. I would have loved to have a conversation about the surrounding area. |
| 05:03:29.30 | Steven Woodside | Yeah, and if I could just hopefully bring this home to a conclusion. |
| 05:03:29.64 | Robert Stevens | Yeah. |
| 05:03:35.68 | Steven Woodside | I think the people you heard from tonight are not going to slow down. They want us to slow down so that they can be heard more fully as we go along. And we're not asking you to convene them all again, because I have no doubt they will speak up. And that SWA, with a lot of experience with those same people, are going to listen and rather efficiently bring to you and the rest of the team some ideas that we think can be brought back to us to see where parking lot one fits into those. larger, um, I don't want to call them grand because I think they're just sensible things that we ought to be doing with the with the land. |
| 05:04:21.18 | Unknown | That's a good way to put it. Thank you. Thank you. |
| 05:04:22.85 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. |
| 05:04:22.95 | Unknown | I like the way you put that. |
| 05:04:24.25 | Steven Woodside | Okay, I'll try to remember that. |
| 05:04:24.50 | Unknown | I'll try to remember that. |
| 05:04:26.26 | Steven Woodside | But is this an impossible task? |
| 05:04:31.39 | Robert Stevens | There is no impossible task. Again, I think if you ask me duration of this and it was solely, you know, our team working with a select group of local professionals, I mean, I know that. I've studied this enough. I mean, I, we could create this really quickly, but I think, I think what I would advise. Don't make it any faster than three months because I think that |
| 05:04:56.11 | Joan Cox | So how about we say that? Authorize SWA up to city manager authority to work with this team to come back within three months. with a version of this that fits into a broader vision, but it's focused on the first step. |
| 05:05:10.32 | Steven Woodside | And I don't think we have any illusions that it's not then complicated going forward and could be very involved and tricky and involve other stakeholders eventually. But we'd like to see what that possible vision and how this parking lot may incorporate into it. Three months? Three months. Yeah. We have consensus. Do we need a motion? |
| 05:05:31.48 | Joan Cox | My motion is the direct city manager to up to his authority, hire SW architect to work with the consultant and coming back with a, revised set of designs that fit into a larger vision, but it's focused on lot one. |
| 05:05:48.19 | Steven Woodside | And the designs at this point are conceptual. |
| 05:05:51.85 | Joan Cox | Yes. I agree. So we, there, the action tonight was review and file. So what we're doing is giving direction. Yeah. |
| 05:06:00.06 | Jill Hoffman | And what's the increased budget on this? Is it within the current budget? Up to city manager authority. |
| 05:06:02.04 | Joan Cox | in the current question. |
| 05:06:04.03 | Chris Zapata | Thank you. |
| 05:06:04.35 | Jill Hoffman | Well, what's the city manager authority right now? |
| 05:06:09.01 | Chris Zapata | $67,500. So yeah, that's up to $67,500. |
| 05:06:14.07 | Joan Cox | Thank you. |
| 05:06:14.97 | Jill Hoffman | for SWA and we're still under the original contract with our yes WRT |
| 05:06:20.08 | Unknown | Yes. Yes. So this is an incremental 67K. At this point. That's right. later. |
| 05:06:27.50 | Jill Hoffman | Thank you. |
| 05:06:27.81 | Unknown | Bye. |
| 05:06:27.89 | Steven Woodside | It's right. Do we have a consensus? Okay. |
| 05:06:30.88 | Joan Cox | Yes. |
| 05:06:32.01 | Steven Woodside | Okay, I think that's five of them. |
| 05:06:33.60 | Joan Cox | And are you clear on the direction from the council? looking at WRT. |
| 05:06:42.24 | Joan Cox | And CSW. And CSW. |
| 05:06:43.20 | Robert Stevens | I'm on CSW. So I think I'm clear. I just want to be really clear about something when we talk about costs. And I don't know if you had time to look at the actual estimates, but when we, we talk about costs, I added everything into it. Plus I added a 20% contingency. So if we talked about just resurfacing lot number one, right. You know, our construction cost is less than a million dollars. And if it's partial repairs, it's farther less than that. Like if you looked at option two, The actual construction cost of that is about $2.1 million. When we talk about this, there's a little bit of inflation in these estimates, just simply because I'm at a planning phase for this. So yes, I'm clear about what we're trying to do looking forward to and coming back in three months. Great. |
| 05:07:33.81 | Steven Woodside | Great. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. And thanks to all of you for hanging in there with us at this late hour. Um, That concludes the business items. We did say that we would defer item 5D, but we do, if there are people who absolutely want to speak on 5D now, now's your time. |
| 05:07:56.64 | Walfred Solorzano | We have Fred Moore. |
| 05:07:59.52 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. |
| 05:07:59.54 | Walfred Solorzano | Read more. |
| 05:08:02.83 | Fred Moore | I apologize for having to comment and having to leave earlier in this late hour. |
| 05:08:06.73 | Unknown | We can't hear you, Fred. |
| 05:08:08.38 | Fred Moore | Can you hear me now? |
| 05:08:09.90 | Unknown | Yes. |
| 05:08:10.96 | Joan Cox | Thank you. |
| 05:08:10.98 | Fred Moore | Thank you. |
| 05:08:11.03 | Joan Cox | Yeah, I hear you. |
| 05:08:12.53 | Fred Moore | Okay, I apologize for leaving early and keeping you guys this late hour, but with respect to this item, I hope when it comes back to the diasphere for consideration, you consider a little bit of a change in direction and consider having the appeals board be the planning commission and having the planning commission be able to sit as itself together with its quasi judicial position as the appeals board. I served for years on the zoning and building code appeals board in Southern California. And luckily, after all those years, we had one hearing scheduled, and it actually was canceled at the last minute because the parties came to an agreement. So hopefully this appeals board has very few action items that it has to take on. And I think since you already have an existing body of the planning commission, that can take over that role without having to burden the city manager with, trying to find five circulating people to step in or burden the city council with having them having to step in if those five individuals can't take over. So please consider that when you bring this up again. I think that's a great option and one that will, I think, serve the city very well. So thank you again for all the time you guys spent tonight and talk to you later. |
| 05:09:33.50 | Steven Woodside | Okay, thank you, Fred. |
| 05:09:34.39 | Joan Cox | Thank you. |
| 05:09:34.97 | Steven Woodside | Thank you. Any other comments? No further public comments. Okay, so we'll move right along to any council member reports. I think Ian and I can report that the Finance Committee has met, that we will be coming back to the council on the 17th with some recommendations regarding the policy for smoothing future pension obligations and related matters to that. And our plan is to come back on the 17th with a recommendation. We don't have one tonight. |
| 05:10:11.10 | Melissa Blaustein | Okay. |
| 05:10:11.67 | Steven Woodside | So that's one report. |
| 05:10:13.76 | Melissa Blaustein | I have a report. |
| 05:10:14.52 | Steven Woodside | Yes. |
| 05:10:14.93 | Melissa Blaustein | Thank you. The MLK and Corporation Yard Visioning Our Future Task Force had our first workshop at the New Village School a few weeks ago. We had about 60 people in attendance and Amy Haworth facilitated. She has a report out from that workshop that they will be posting on the website where we have our program eight housing um information and thank you to our assistant city manager who has been doing outstanding work um facilitating some of these meetings with us there will be a second workshop on the rfp this coming sunday at the spinnaker from 11 to 2. so we would love to have you if you can make it that would be fantastic and just to note that uh brandon is continuing to work on making updates to the draft RFP per the feedback that we received at our prior meeting. |
| 05:11:10.77 | Steven Woodside | And with respect to Brown Act implications for that, does that have to be a notice? Yes. You think? |
| 05:11:14.70 | Joan Cox | Yes. Walford, you have a note to notice that as a special meeting of the city council. Thank you. |
| 05:11:20.52 | Steven Woodside | Okay. |
| 05:11:21.72 | Joan Cox | Thank you for doing that for our last meeting. |
| 05:11:24.64 | Steven Woodside | Okay. Other reports at this time. Yes, Joe. |
| 05:11:28.91 | Jill Hoffman | We had our, as I said, we had our annual sister city board meeting of all three councils. So it was the board. um, annual meeting on Saturday, February 21st. It was an excellent meeting. All three councils are in strong, uh, strong financial, uh, position and have incredibly strong community support. I'm happy to report. The Japanese adult tour is going on this April, which is excellent. And all the Qashqai trip is with the youth sailing exchanges in very strong position for the summer. So everything's going along great. the second annual crab fest it's a huge success uh vice mayor blaustein was there and did the ribbon cutting in the morning it was uh sold out it was amazing and we did an announcement at noon on the fresh catch program which was very warmly received by everybody there i mean it was long lines, and everybody was doing a great thing. And the Sister City Group did our annual lunch there instead of a sushi ron, and it was great. We did it at Fish Restaurant, and everybody was packed. I went to the MCCMC. I was the |
| 05:12:20.90 | Natalie Butts | Thank you. |
| 05:12:51.36 | Jill Hoffman | representative for Sausalito at the meeting. We met at the College of Marin New Student Support Center. Anybody who's around, up there in San Anselmo or not San Anselmo, I'm sorry, wherever College of Marin is, it's up off of Sir Francis Drake Drive. The new student support center is fabulous. If you need a place to relax, study, hang out, they have a library that's Marin Net Library on the third floor. It's open, it's fabulous, it's beautiful. There's a coffee shop up there. It's a great, great space. Our speaker was Assembly Member Connolly, Um, he gave us a great legislative update. Interestingly, SB 79 is coming back in a new form. So watch out. And it's, they're cleaning it up with all the loopholes that came back. So that was the transit oriented, um, uh that we had to fight back last year it's coming back and so we will probably designate it be designated again as a transit center because of our ferry stop. And so we will probably have to fight that battle again. Also, Prop 4, climate bond money, he reported. There's a lot of, a lot of money coming down the pipe for that. So keep your eyes open and we should keep a sharp eye out. For that, the other speaker was the Canal Alliance. Omar Carrera gave a really great speech on what great work that the Canal Alliance does and following on the ICE presentation that we had at our meeting, our last meeting, and the good work that they're doing on there, the Canal Alliance. So it was a great meeting at MCCMC at the, at COM. So anyway, that's all the reports. |
| 05:14:38.26 | Steven Woodside | Okay. Anything else? |
| 05:14:39.46 | Jill Hoffman | I do. |
| 05:14:40.27 | Steven Woodside | Yes. |
| 05:14:40.96 | Joan Cox | As liaison to Southern Rhin Fire, I attended the Board of Directors meeting on the night of the MCCMC meeting. So I, there's a permanent conflict, but I'm glad that I attended the board of directors meeting because at that meeting it was announced that Chief Chris Tubbs has submitted his resignation effective July 1. He will continue to serve as chief between now and then unless... something changes. Thank you. Um, And so the board is carefully considering its next steps. It plans to go out to recruit, but also interview within to identify a replacement chief. The building committee spoke with enthusiasm about the construction work being undertaken. at Station 2 and about the vegetation management plan and other mobilization plans that they have for Station 2. So that's a very active conversation and I'm thrilled to know that they are enthusiastically proceeding with that And then I wanted to remind us that on March 20th is the M.W. Marin Women's Political Action Committee elected women's luncheon at the clubhouse at Peacock Gap. There are only 15 spaces left. It's 1230 to 330. So I encourage us to attend. |
| 05:16:11.94 | Steven Woodside | Is it a women's only event? |
| 05:16:13.44 | Joan Cox | No, we had Senator McGuire came last year. uh, Assembly member. And indeed, the MWPAC endorses male candidates, not just female ones. |
| 05:16:26.53 | Steven Woodside | Okay. Um, |
| 05:16:28.25 | Joan Cox | Yeah. |
| 05:16:29.17 | Steven Woodside | I'm hoping we don't have a long list of future agenda items to report out tonight, but we do have, um, a lot on our agendas coming up on the 17th, related to, Finance, among other things, we've got some potential hearings that we're still juggling with timing. And I know city manager, you want to get started in the budget process. And that's real important. So we do have a need to get those things done for June 30th. And it makes it difficult to have too many brand new items come up, but we'll consider them gender review. So. Having said that, Hearing nothing more tonight will be adjourned at 1030. Oh, I'm sorry. |
| 05:17:20.36 | Joan Cox | public comment on these items. Do we? |
| 05:17:24.60 | Steven Woodside | Do we have any... |
| 05:17:26.84 | Joan Cox | 6A to 6A. |
| 05:17:27.57 | Steven Woodside | 6A to 6D. What you just heard, these reports? Seeing none. Okay, thank you. We are adjourned. |