| Time | Speaker | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00.52 | Kristina Feller | She has created to be co-hosted. There you go, Mary. Yeah. |
| 00:00:08.25 | Maria | Thank you. |
| 00:00:08.71 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. I could at the beginning and then it |
| 00:00:10.97 | Maria | Take it away. Okay, I'm going to admit all now. |
| 00:00:13.72 | Kristina Feller | Okay, great. |
| 00:00:15.49 | Maria | Slowly, there's a lot, so it's going to take a little bit. |
| 00:00:18.27 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 00:00:23.44 | Maria | Okay, it looks like all the public is in, we can begin now. |
| 00:00:30.47 | Kristina Feller | Well, welcome everybody. Welcome to the regularly scheduled Planning Commission hearing of Wednesday, March 17th. And happy St. Patrick's Day to everybody observing. Director Whalen, will you please call the roll? |
| 00:00:45.10 | Raylene Gorham | Yeah, Don. |
| 00:00:48.73 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 00:00:48.75 | Director Whalen | Good evening, Chair Feller and Planning Commissioners. This meeting is being held pursuant to section three of executive order. 2920 issued by Governor Newsom exactly a year ago today. 2020 and all members are joining this meeting telephonically through zoom and I'll now call the roll. Commissioner Saad? here. Commissioner Luxembourg. |
| 00:01:11.68 | Jeffery Luxenberg | there are |
| 00:01:12.37 | Director Whalen | Commissioner Pierce. |
| 00:01:13.59 | Jeffery Luxenberg | it. |
| 00:01:14.60 | Director Whalen | Vice chair grass. |
| 00:01:15.78 | Jeffery Luxenberg | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 00:01:16.37 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 00:01:16.39 | Kristina Feller | and chair filler. |
| 00:01:17.17 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 00:01:17.54 | Kristina Feller | Here. |
| 00:01:18.08 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 00:01:18.25 | Kristina Feller | All members are present, and we have a quorum. Great, thank you, Director Whelan. |
| 00:01:22.28 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 00:01:22.43 | Kristina Feller | The next item on the agenda is actually the approval of the agenda. Do I have a motion to approve? |
| 00:01:29.70 | Morgan Pierce | So, move. Thank you. |
| 00:01:32.61 | Kristina Feller | background. Thank you. Director Whelan, will you please call the roll? |
| 00:01:37.40 | Director Whalen | Commissioner Luxembourg. |
| 00:01:39.51 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 00:01:39.56 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 00:01:40.18 | Director Whalen | Commissioner Saad. |
| 00:01:42.11 | Nastassya Saad | you |
| 00:01:42.17 | Director Whelan | TODAY. |
| 00:01:42.31 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 00:01:42.36 | Director Whelan | Thank you. |
| 00:01:42.88 | Director Whalen | Commissioner Pierce. |
| 00:01:43.68 | Director Whelan | Thank you. |
| 00:01:43.85 | Director Whalen | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:01:44.03 | Nastassya Saad | Yes. |
| 00:01:44.05 | Director Whelan | Thank you. |
| 00:01:44.64 | Director Whalen | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:01:44.74 | Director Whelan | Because I share a graph. |
| 00:01:45.80 | Nastassya Saad | Yeah. |
| 00:01:46.33 | Director Whelan | And Chair Feller? Yes. |
| 00:01:48.30 | Kristina Feller | five zero. |
| 00:01:48.77 | Director Whelan | Thank you. |
| 00:01:49.70 | Kristina Feller | Right. The next item on the agenda is public comments on items not on the agenda. Director Whelan, could you please advise the public how to make comment and raise their hands? |
| 00:02:02.26 | Director Whalen | Thank you. This is the time to hear from citizens regarding matters that are not on the agenda tonight. except in limited circumstances, state law precludes the planning commission from taking action on or engaging in discussion. concerning items of business that are not on the agenda. However, the commission may refer matters not on the agenda to city staff or correct that the subject the agenda is for future meetings. If you'd like to make a comment now on an item not on the agenda, please raise your hand in the Zoom application under the participants list and you'll be a call. on when it's your time to speak. to raise your hand from a phone, you can press star nine. |
| 00:02:39.63 | Unknown | fine. |
| 00:02:40.18 | Director Whalen | please state your name for the record before beginning your comments and we will allow you to unmute yourself and share your video and need to adjust your settings to allow you access so thank you for your patience |
| 00:02:51.84 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Director Whalen. Uh, do we have any raised hands at this time? |
| 00:02:59.99 | Kristina Feller | Again, this is for items not on the agenda this evening for any public member who would like to make a comment to this commission. If you just do it. |
| 00:03:10.16 | Director Whelan | I do not see any hands raised. |
| 00:03:13.45 | Kristina Feller | you All right. I think at this time I will close public comment. |
| 00:03:21.26 | Kristina Feller | And let's move on to the next item on the agenda, Director Whalen. |
| 00:03:25.64 | Director Whalen | Thank you, so the next item on our agenda are public hearing items. And before we begin our public hearing items, this is the time for commissioners to provide any declarations regarding ex parte communications. |
| 00:03:38.29 | Kristina Feller | Okay, thank you. Commissioner Saad. |
| 00:03:41.63 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you Chair Feller. I would like to say that I have visited from afar Chrysantia Drive. I have also visited the Easter Bee property last night with the applicant and we did not have any discussion around the merits of the project, but I did look at her view and take some photos. while I was there. Um, I have also visited 70s and through 74 Liberty Ship. I did not speak to anyone on that property. And I have also looked at the proposed yoga studio and just declare I am within a thousand feet of that property and I had a conversation with Director Whelan and senior planner Usher and the city attorney. And we have determined that I am I can continue with the discussion for that. So I will not be recusing myself, I'll be participating. |
| 00:04:38.79 | Kristina Feller | Thank you very much. Commissioner Pierce. |
| 00:04:42.28 | Morgan Pierce | Yes, thank you, Chair Feller. The only personal contact I had was with the applicant for the tree and view item for 543 Easterby, who allowed me and your home to view the impact. We did not discuss the merits of the project. |
| 00:04:42.60 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 00:04:42.62 | Nastassya Saad | And that's it. |
| 00:04:56.86 | Morgan Pierce | or the application. |
| 00:04:58.75 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Commissioner Luxenberg. |
| 00:05:01.98 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yes, I visited to Christy and drive did not have any interaction with anybody on the site at that time. I visited the cloud breaks yoga studio inside through the paper windows, but did not have any interaction with anybody there either. did go to 543 East for the East for Easterby and did talk to the owner there, did not respond to anything specifically regarding the project, but I did look at her view through her window. I did, it's on the agenda and I did visit 23 Wolfpack Ridge Road, which I understand will not, it's been taken off the agenda, but since it's still on there, I did visit the site. I did talk to the contractor who said it was going to be withdrawn, but that was the only interaction I had there. And 70 to 74 Liberty Shipway, I visited the actual inside of the fences twice, and I walked by it more times than I can possibly count. But I did not interact with anybody. |
| 00:06:15.14 | Kristina Feller | Great. Thank you very much. Vice Chair Graff. |
| 00:06:19.43 | Richard Graef | I've had no ex parte communications. And because I live right next door to the Liberty Ship project. Um, I spoke with and Mary Wagner. and Christie Usher this afternoon and I will be From that, discussion. |
| 00:06:48.78 | Kristina Feller | Great. Okay. Thank you very much. I have had no ex parte discussions with any of the applicants this evening. However, I have walked around the Liberty ship and I've driven by Easterby. I'm familiar with the area. And I'm also familiar with the area and drove by again. up there and I did drive up to Wolfback Ridge And just for a point of clarification for the public, 23 Wolfback Ridge, we will be taking public comment this evening. Even though the applicant has asked for a continuance, we will be hearing public comment this evening. And I think that's it, Director Whelan, if you want to. read our first public hearing item for this evening. |
| 00:07:35.81 | Director Whalen | Thank you, Chair Feller. The first public hearing item tonight is item 4A, which is a request for changes to an approved design review permit and variance to Christy and to drive and We have our contract planner. Justin. I hope I pronounced that correctly, who will be giving the staff presentation this evening. So let us ask Justin to unmute. and start his video. And I think Shana will be sharing her screen. So I think we'll need to let Shana share screen as well. So, |
| 00:08:08.66 | Jeffery Luxenberg | the |
| 00:08:08.70 | Dennis Pasqua | Indeed. |
| 00:08:08.92 | Kristina Feller | Yeah. |
| 00:08:14.69 | Kristina Feller | Welcome, Justin. |
| 00:08:16.90 | Justin Klapparda | Thank you. |
| 00:08:35.97 | Justin Klapparda | Thank you. All right, I'll go ahead and start. Good evening, Commissioners. My name is Justin Klapparda. I'm a contract planner working with city staff to support project review Tonight I will be speaking about changes to an approved designer view permit and variance located at 2 Christiana Drive. The applicant is seeking approval for modifications to an existing I've built sound wall, rear facade window alteration, and a new rear yard retaining wall. Next slide. I'll provide a brief history and background of the project, followed by an overview of the proposed project before providing you with reasons that staff is recommending project approval. Next slide, please. The history of the newly constructed residence at two Crescenta drives dates back over 20 years as follows. In 1999, the Planning Commission approved a project to replace the existing single-family dwelling with the construction of a new two-story single-family residence 620 foot. foot carriage house and a 253 square foot cabana. The request also included a variant or an eight foot high sound wall flash fence. per Planning Commission Resolution 1999-45. The entitlements were set to expire in five years from the date of its approval. if the permit is not exercised within that time. In 2004, the property owner timely filed a building permit and moved forward with the 1999 entitlement. the carriage house. |
| 00:10:18.38 | Kwok Yin Chong | CARRIE DURING. |
| 00:10:20.25 | Justin Klapparda | past the two-car garage. was constructed and completed. Between 2015 and 2017, the property changed ownership to the current owner. as a result of the change in ownership the building. permit for the improvements under the 1999 entitlements was expired. However, the variants for an eight foot high. sound wall was valid with the transfer of the property and the request for a modification to the variance is included with this proposed project. On July 17th, 2017, the Planning Commission approved design review permit to allow the construction of the single family residence attached to our garage. multiple routine walls and detached garage. which has been converted into an ADU. into what is existing on the property today. The applicant subsequently requested approval of a change of the approved material of the eight foot hall wooden sand wall and they approved horizontal theater boards to a PVC material. This is administrative administratively approved by the Community Development Director. on April 4th. the community development director approved the request to change two Approved sliding glass doors located on the south rear elevation of the proposed residence, the two sets of three casement windows. The sound wall was erected in September of 2020 and staff began receiving complaints about noise concerns in the neighborhood in response to neighborhood noise complaints. The building department verified the sound wall was not built according to plan. in December 2020 at the direction of staff the applicant addressed the neighborhood sound issue through a rotation of the sound wall panels to reflect what is on there today. Next slide, please. |
| 00:12:15.24 | Justin Klapparda | A particular note with regard to the 2017 application and approval The approved project plans included an eight foot tall wooden sound wall to run adjacent to Highway 101 along the property's western parcel line to be constructed of horizontal steer boards and in a design that steps down at the slope. The approved project plans also included two sliding glass doors along the rear south elevation of the home. The approved wood material of the sound wall and windows along the rear elevation were not features specifically addressed. or as a basis for the project conditions of approval or that was a specific consideration by the Planning Commission in the approval of the permit at the time. Next slide. The project parcel is a reverse pie shape loss with a net parcel area of approximately 17,000 225 square feet located to the north. of downtown San Paquito, the upslope parcel is located west of Highway 101 and slopes down towards the north and Christiana drives. The parcel is located in the R18 zoning districts. Neighborhood, which consists of primarily single-family residencies. Next slide. With this background in mind, the proposed project before you all today consists of three parts as follows. found wall modifications, which constitute And. changes the design of sound walls to improve It's as built design, stepping down in sections, down the slope and an increase in height from eight feet to a maximum of 14 feet, six inches and a modification of materials from Wood to PVC. Rear window alterations consisting of the modification of the rear south facade with four sliding windows from the originally approved two sets. of three casing windows and a new retaining wall, new six foot high rear yard retaining walls week. Although these changes were not specifically addressed or was the basis for the project conditions of approval, or was it specific consideration by the granting authority and the approval of the permit? Due to the level of concern in the neighbourhood related to the Staten Wall, the project site was elevated to planning commissioner view level. I'll be explaining each of these items in more detail in the following slides. Next slide. There would be no changes to be cleared to the orientation, size, or height of the single-family residence and associated site improvements that are built or currently under construction as a result of the proposed project. Next slide, please. |
| 00:15:03.15 | Justin Klapparda | Soundwall, first element. A 14-foot, 6-inch wooden soundwall is located on the project site along the west lot line adjacent to Highway 101. The wall starts approximately 78 feet to south from the northwest corner of the lot and extends the remaining length of the lot line to the southwest corner of the lot. The request is to retroactively approve the design of the sound wall to stepping down in sections down the slope of the hill. resulting in an increase in height from 8 feet to a maximum of 14 feet 6 inches from finished grades. as well as a modification of the sand wall materials from wood to PVC. Next slide. part two, The applicant has also requested modifications of rear sliding glass windows with four sliding window. Whereas two sliding glass doors were approved originally by the Planning Commission and modified to allow the sliding doors to be replaced by two sets of three casing windows and updated colors materials to match the windows and doors throughout the single family residence. |
| 00:16:09.65 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Ooh. |
| 00:16:10.26 | Justin Klapparda | The placement of these windows on the south elevation of the single family residence would meet egress requirements as specified in the California Building Code You can see in this depicted on the top photo, which is the original approval. and the bottom image, which is the proposed Kane is These are clouded specifically Next slide, please. Lastly, the applicant has constructed a new six foot high rear yard retaining wall and is seeking retroactive approval. The search hanging wall was not included as part of the 2017 approval. These are highlighted in the image that you see in red shape. as constructed a new six foot high retaining wall in the rear yard that is within the rear setback area would be consistent with requirements and development standards of the Sasa Guido municipal code. Next slide, please. general plan consistency. The proposed design review permit and variance maintains the site's existing use containing a single family dwelling that is generally consistent with the scale density and intensity of the surrounding neighbourhoods, which is comprised of a mixture of single-family and multi-family residences. the project. proposed project would meet the applicable design policies. laid out in the slide in that. the design approach takes advantage of the characteristics of the steep soaking site and the change of sound wall materials from horizontal cedar wood to PVC. our creative solution to dampen the sound from US 101. to benefit the neighborhood and accommodate the project's design given the steep slope of the site. Second, the natural topography of the site and design the project to follow the sea-stopping terrain will not impact private view. Furthermore, the visual appearance of the sand wall and new rear yard retaining wall would be softened by the proposed site landscaping. Next slide, please. |
| 00:18:08.96 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:18:09.03 | Justin Klapparda | you. dash fines that the proposed project meets all designer view permit findings required by the cross-impedal code These are described in greater detail in the staff report included in your package. Overall, the proposed changes to the approved designer view permit and variant are limited to changes to the rear façade. a change in material and materials in the design of the sound wall, and a new retaining wall along the rear. together these changes do not result in a significant expansion of the youth or affect the approved bulk on the property. The project would maintain the project consistency with the diversity of housing styles in the The new rear yard retaining wall is wood, which is similar to the other carous retaining walls that were approved with the original project design. And it also meets the six-foot-high requirement of zoning codes. and the substitution of windows along the rear façade does not change the design character of the neighborhood or single family home. as previously mentioned. Earlier on in the presentation, the initial variants approved in 1999 allows the proposed increase in building height and eight foot high-stown wall fence slash fence given the site's close proximity to the highway. As part of this project, the applicant is requesting the height of the fan wall be increased from eight feet to a maximum of 14.6 feet from finished grade, which is six feet higher than what is allowed. in the code. In order to approve a variant, the Planning Commission must determine whether the project is in conformance with all of the variance requirements staff finds that the proposed project meets all various findings required. by the code, these again are described in greater detail in the staff report, including Overall, the subject property is a steep, odd-shaped upslope lot of blooding highway 101. Due to its proximity to a high-speed eight-lane highway, it would be difficult to develop this site without attempting to attenuate the impact of traffic noise on future residents. of the building due to these extraordinary conditions. which do not generally apply to other properties in the R18 residential district. The proposed 14.6 foot high sound wall would be a suitable design solution which can mitigate the above, adverse condition. Next slide, please. City staff sent out neighborhood notification on March 5th, 2021. And to date, we have received zero letters from neighbors. next slide please. In conclusion, the project is consistent with applicable general plan policies, R18 zoning development standards for the R18 district. review criteria for designer view permits and variances and findings necessary to approve the requested designer view permit and variances. And the project is categorically exempt from CEQA. Therefore, staff recommends the planning commission grant design review and variance approval subject to the attached conditions of approval. Thank you. |
| 00:21:24.02 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Justin. Thank you very much for preparing that presentation and all the work that went into that. That was very thorough and |
| 00:21:32.07 | Justin Klapparda | Mm-hmm. |
| 00:21:32.50 | Kristina Feller | incredibly helpful to the commission here. So thank you. At this point, I want to make sure that if any commissioner has questions for staff, this would be the time to do so. So Commissioner Luxenberg, let me just start with you. Do you have any questions for staff? |
| 00:21:52.69 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yes, I just have one through the chair to Justin. I think I'm a little confused. There was a wood fence that was supposed to be a sound wall. And the wood fence was never built, but the PVC fence was built instead. And then they rotated the PVC to be a different direction. Is that my understanding of that? So I didn't look closely at the PVC fence when I was there, but I will tell you that it does not do its job. The sound from the freeway is very loud, so I don't know what it was like before they rotated it. And I don't know what the wood would have done, but it does. It seems to have grooves in it. I don't know. Are those holes in the fence? Because it lets a lot of sound through. It is not blocking the noise from the freeway. |
| 00:22:46.40 | Justin Klapparda | Yeah, based on the images, there are, it's not like a completely solid fence, but the applicant did, has been in touch with the neighborhood and the hasn't presented any more complaints about noise. So, as of now, I haven't received any complaints from the neighborhood about noise. So, It seems like it's doing its job as of now. but the applicant can also provide more feedback. |
| 00:23:13.69 | Jeffery Luxenberg | but the applicant can also provide more feedback. It might not be creating extra noise to the neighborhood, which it was doing in the other direction, but it does not block the noise. Right. So if the planning board planning commission added that as a condition and I wasn't on the commission at that time to protect this house from noise, it's not doing its job. |
| 00:23:24.00 | Unknown | Right. |
| 00:23:35.98 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. Is what I'm saying. |
| 00:23:38.22 | Justin Klapparda | Got it. |
| 00:23:39.15 | Kristina Feller | Kind of. Um, Mayor Mrakas- That's all I have at the moment. Mayor Mrakas- Okay, great. Commissioner Saad, do you have any questions for staff at this time? |
| 00:23:42.63 | Jeffery Luxenberg | That's all I have at the moment. |
| 00:23:49.95 | Nastassya Saad | I don't I think it was answered I was wondering if there were any more complaints coming from neighbors but I think the staff presentation said that there was no communication so I'm okay thank you. |
| 00:23:59.57 | Kristina Feller | Great, thank you. Commissioner Pierce. |
| 00:24:02.45 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 00:24:02.47 | Morgan Pierce | Oh, yes, thank you, Chair Feller. I am curious, because I do understand there were a number of complaints and neighborhood issues regarding it. And I'm rather surprised that we have no summary of that documentation in our packet. In my mind, this is completely incomplete report based on that. Um, So I would like to know the summary of the neighborhood complaints and the mitigation measures that they recognize. Thank you very much. Uh, The staff report identifies the fence in question was not mentioned during the last Planning Commission review that I happened to be on. And that was specified as smooth cedar, which would turn a soft natural appearing gray. And that's why we didn't call attention to it because it was supposed to blend into the background. Um, based on the sheer scale of this element, really curious how staff evaluated this change we handled at a ministerial level. And maybe the Community Development Director would like to address that. |
| 00:24:59.98 | Director Whalen | Thank you, Commissioner Pierce. So if I'm understanding correctly, you're referring to the change in the material from 2000, I believe it was 18. |
| 00:25:08.91 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yes. |
| 00:25:09.50 | Director Whalen | From, yeah, so no change to the design and just the material correctly. |
| 00:25:09.53 | Jeffery Luxenberg | THE END OF |
| 00:25:13.97 | Director Whalen | So the standards as they were set forth in the staff report for this evening are in the municipal code regarding changes that applicants are allowed to make the community development director as long as they're minors. and the director and staff are required to go back through the record to determine if the requested change was as Justin indicated, specifically addressed by the Planning Commission in the findings or the conditions of approval. And if it wasn't, then the community director can consider those requests. The process that that goes through is a notice to the neighborhood prior to making any approval. and soliciting comments and then making the decision. Thank you very much. |
| 00:25:59.35 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you very much for the clarification. I'll have some more comments regarding that during the comments phase. The other, When did staff become aware of the six foot high retaining wall? Was it following its unpermitted construction? And if so, I would recommend the city council to find the applicant in violation of the municipal code and find them accordingly. |
| 00:26:21.17 | Director Whalen | So when did they fall? |
| 00:26:21.32 | Morgan Pierce | So when did they find out about that? |
| 00:26:22.67 | Director Whalen | If I recall the retaining wall, the additional retaining wall was identified during either the planning or the building permit walkthrough final for the project. So fairly recently, I don't have a date in front of me. |
| 00:26:35.61 | Morgan Pierce | And is it typical that staff discovers undocumented elements that people construct just because they want to? that are then not addressed? Got it. Thank you very much. Those are all the questions I have for President and Chair Feller. |
| 00:26:48.13 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Commissioner Pierce. Vice Chair Graff, do you have any questions for staff? |
| 00:26:52.99 | Richard Graef | Yes, I have a couple. One is the same one that, Commissioner Pierce just mentioned Um, about the unauthorized retaining wall Um, I was wondering, there's mentions I just haven't been able to find it yet, but there's mention of plant screening I'm not sure. along the retaining wall and I'm assuming if that's, proposed That's going to go on a... dwelling side of the fence and not on the freeway side of the fence I'm not sure. are or is it? So I was wondering where that goes. Um, So those are Yeah, those are the only two questions I had. Yeah, the retaining wall and the planting. |
| 00:27:51.62 | Justin Klapparda | I can answer the question about the landscaping. So the landscaping as proposed, excuse me, would. be on the dwelling side of the wall rather than the 101 facing the highway. |
| 00:28:03.40 | Kwok Yin Chong | one. |
| 00:28:04.78 | Justin Klapparda | So that was proposed and there is a time limit in which they can install that wall. And that will be subject to planning and building inspection prior to final occupancy. And the timeline is 90 days. |
| 00:28:10.45 | Unknown | I mean, that |
| 00:28:19.66 | Richard Graef | And And so the nature of that screening is that Um, |
| 00:28:30.38 | Richard Graef | Well, what kind of plants? I mean, what is the objective? add more. add more. sound attenuation or is it to actually screen the wall itself? |
| 00:28:42.46 | Justin Klapparda | it's, to the ultimate goal as Um, the way the staff understood it was to screen the wall itself. rather than additional sound attenuation. So it was more of a visual element rather than the sound part. |
| 00:28:59.79 | Richard Graef | Okay, great. Got it, thank you. |
| 00:29:01.58 | Justin Klapparda | Mm-hmm. |
| 00:29:03.59 | Kristina Feller | Was that it first? |
| 00:29:04.16 | Richard Graef | Oh, yeah, no, there was one more question. And it had to do with Uh, Yeah. I also have the same question about complaints about noise Who was complaining about what noise? I'm not understanding where the complaints where and why they would have been registered. |
| 00:29:36.97 | Director Whalen | Thank you, Vice Chair Graff. So the noise complaints came to the attention of the Community Development Department after the applicant. put up the wall, which I think occurred I can go back and look, but I think in the November timeframe, maybe October timeframe of last year, September timeframe maybe Justin is- |
| 00:29:56.39 | Justin Klapparda | September. September. |
| 00:29:57.25 | Director Whalen | September. Yeah. time is. |
| 00:29:59.01 | Justin Klapparda | Yep. |
| 00:29:59.33 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:30:00.24 | Director Whalen | strange these days. September time frame. Well went up. |
| 00:30:03.19 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 00:30:04.53 | Director Whalen | began to get noise complaints from four neighbors. near the project site. Um, and clients were focused on those. the changes to the noise quality in the neighborhood. There were also conversations that occurred at that time about some recent repaving that Caltrans did at Highway 101 and some vegetation removal along the highway as well. And that all kind of occurred in a similar timeframe. the applicant. worked with the neighbors, had conversations with the neighbors. We hosted neighborhood meetings to discuss the noise issues. They thought about different options that they had, and they decided to flip the panels on the wall. And I received an email, I believe the day after that happened, from one of the folks who are who were upset about the noise issues and they said it made, huge world of difference. And I don't have the words in front of me, but it seemed to completely resolve. the noise issue that they had been experiencing, just the flip of the panels. Did that address your question. |
| 00:31:21.88 | Richard Graef | Yeah, so it's a good thing. Thank you. almost sounds like the applicant is responsible for dealing with the noise from other neighbors that's not, their problem. I mean, I understand they're doing it for their own comfort and enjoyment of their property, but I don't understand where the neighbors complaints figure in It sounds like the applicant is actually doing a courtesy to the neighbors So it just sounds a little odd I just don't understand the nature of the complaints. Maybe it doesn't really matter. |
| 00:32:02.28 | Kristina Feller | So do you have a follow-up question, Vice Chair? No, no. |
| 00:32:07.06 | Richard Graef | Yeah, no, I was just wondering, um, about the nature of the compliance were neighbors complaining about sound from the freeway, Um, to the applicant and was the applicant responsible for responding to those complaints by putting up the wall. |
| 00:32:33.62 | Kristina Feller | The wall was part of the original design, Justin. Is that correct? |
| 00:32:37.63 | Richard Graef | Correct. |
| 00:32:38.04 | Kristina Feller | So it was part of the |
| 00:32:38.22 | Richard Graef | Mm-hmm. |
| 00:32:41.65 | Kristina Feller | original design review, |
| 00:32:43.49 | Richard Graef | Uh-huh. So I just don't understand where the neighbors' complaints fit into the big picture. That's all. |
| 00:32:51.89 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Well, maybe we can hear more from the applicant. We certainly have time to go back to staff here. I just have a couple of questions before we ask. |
| 00:32:58.12 | Kwok Yin Chong | I'm not. |
| 00:32:58.15 | Nastassya Saad | I just have a question. |
| 00:32:58.64 | Kwok Yin Chong | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:32:59.74 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 00:32:59.97 | Kwok Yin Chong | Thank you. |
| 00:33:00.99 | Kristina Feller | the applicant to come up to give their presentation. And I guess the first question, Justin, is has there been a decibel reading like before and after when the wall was flipped around. |
| 00:33:15.74 | Justin Klapparda | I'm not sure. Not that I received, but Director Wei Lin, maybe you can provide additional insight. |
| 00:33:23.65 | Director Whalen | Thank you, Chair. The only decibel reading that I'm aware of that was taken was prior to the panels being flipped. But the applicant will have probably more information for you on that. |
| 00:33:36.31 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Because I'm assuming that because this wall was installed incorrectly or the panels backwards or whatever, it was actually reverberating the sound rather than absorbing it, which is thus the complaint. But I'm assuming that we can also, as a condition of approval, look at ensuring another decibel reading is taken if no one's complaining now. So should that change in the future? We have a metric. Is that correct? |
| 00:34:01.62 | Director Whalen | You could require that. I think you could require that condition. Let me consult with the city attorney. But there needs to be a relationship between the condition and the approval that you're making here. the |
| 00:34:14.01 | Kwok Yin Chong | the |
| 00:34:15.64 | Director Whalen | I think that the variants, having the variants involved might allow you to make that link there, but let me think about that and get back to you when you're deliberating. |
| 00:34:20.05 | Kwok Yin Chong | I think that's a good thing. |
| 00:34:25.95 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 00:34:26.04 | Kristina Feller | Sure. The second question I had is, is all the landscape planted now that's required or that was approved in the original design review? Is it all planted? |
| 00:34:36.85 | Justin Klapparda | No, it's not. And the reason why the applicant wanted to wait before they received any further approvals, they didn't want to spend the money moving forward with planting. before they received any additional approvals. So they held off until today. which is why I had mentioned earlier on that the landscaping would be included as a condition of approval and there's that schedule that they would they were to receive an approval on this keep them the project. |
| 00:35:07.70 | Kristina Feller | do you know the nature of the landscape that they haven't planted yet is it is it tall shrub, is it vines, is it trees? Do you just, not more specific than that. Thank you. |
| 00:35:20.32 | Justin Klapparda | I do. So it's a variety of different types of, it's a variety, there's a variety of different types of landscaping that they're looking at. So they're looking at, I can get you the specifics, but they're looking at in general, a variety of shrubs. low hanging, like low trees and grasses. |
| 00:35:38.01 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Okay, yeah. The final question, and I think you've heard a couple of the commissioners here ask about the nature of the community outreach. |
| 00:35:39.61 | Justin Klapparda | Yeah. |
| 00:35:48.10 | Kristina Feller | and the city was involved in that too, Um, Was this solution Oh, Slipping. flipping the panels around and then coming for this variance and modification, was that discussed with the community at the time of that outreach. as one option. |
| 00:36:12.99 | Director Whalen | Thank you, Chair. Yes, I believe that during the neighborhood meeting that we had, that definitely was discussed. I think the neighbors were were, um, Adamant that the panels were installed incorrectly and wanted that flip. So I think that the The idea came actually from the neighbors to flip the panels in the other direction. |
| 00:36:34.42 | Kristina Feller | Okay. And was there any requirement at that community outreach that the applicant go back to the community or is this the platform to go back to the community? Was that all understood? |
| 00:36:47.57 | Director Whalen | Sure, sure. So I did require of the applicant that they reach out to their neighbors prior to submitting this application. |
| 00:36:48.39 | Kristina Feller | you're, you're, |
| 00:36:57.15 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Okay. Those are all the questions I had. Any other questions, commissioners? Otherwise I'll ask the applicant to prepare. There. presentation. Any other questions? |
| 00:37:11.34 | Fatanesh Kampa | Thank you. |
| 00:37:11.53 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Okay. So if the applicant could, um, prepared to give their presentation. I'm not sure who the applicant is here, just if you see the applicant in the audience here. |
| 00:37:25.70 | Justin Klapparda | I do. It's Ryan Burke. I labeled him as Ryan Burke applicant to percentia. |
| 00:37:32.47 | Kristina Feller | Thank you for having that. Okay, Mr. Burke, if you |
| 00:37:32.69 | Justin Klapparda | Eve? |
| 00:37:35.66 | Kristina Feller | would like to unmute yourself if you would like to and put your camera on, announce yourself. And if you need to share the screen, the Zoom team has enabled that for you. And we'll have a Zoom team. Do we have a Zoom team? comment timer clock this evening. Come on. Come on. |
| 00:37:56.25 | Doreen Gunnar | Come on. Come on. |
| 00:37:59.91 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Mr. Birch, is that you? |
| 00:38:02.21 | Ryan Burke | Is that you? Yes. |
| 00:38:05.14 | Kristina Feller | Okay, we have, you have 15 minutes for your- |
| 00:38:07.79 | Ryan Burke | I'm unable to turn my video on. Can you please have them enable that for me? |
| 00:38:12.09 | Kristina Feller | of course of course zoom team could you please um allow mr burke to share his screen There you go, you should be able to do so now, Mr. Burke. You have 15 minutes total You can use that time. Anyone on your team can speak. And if you want to save any time at the end for any kind of rebuttal or any other further discussion, you may do so. So the floor is yours. Thank you. |
| 00:38:35.91 | Ryan Burke | Thank you very much. And I don't have like a prepared presentation or anything, I just wanna kinda give you guys a macro overview of the whole project and everything, all the micro steps that have led to where it is now, because I think that's really important to understanding how it ended up. where it is now and then also I'd like to provide more thorough answers to a lot of the questions that you guys were asking Justin earlier where again he he didn't have all the answers and all the information, which obviously we do, because we've been the owners the whole time. In fact, I know in the presentation it said, From 2015 to 2017, it changed hands and it actually didn't. We refinanced the property and I don't know why recording shows that, but we've been the original owners since 2015. And my wife and I, you know, we're just novice builders where this isn't like really something that we do, but we wanted to build a dream home in Sausalito. And so We would have never imagined that it would take six years to try to get something like this done. And we basically liquidated our whole recovery. |
| 00:39:50.19 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I mean, |
| 00:39:50.41 | Ryan Burke | plans. to actually do this project, which we would have never been able to do or we would have never done if we would have thought it would take this long. What happened was it took about two and a half, close to three years to get the permits. And then from there, building weather, building on the hillside, all of these different things. When we went to in 2008, what happened was we went to change the material of the sound wall. because from all the research that we had done on sound walls, the sound wall that we were looking to change it to, uh, has the lowest decimal ratings or the highest decimal ratings as far as like reducing sound, because inside of the actual material has what's called acoustic mineral wool, which is supposed to absorb and kind of all of that sound. And so that's why it was just a, it was just a better wall for sound in general. And the neighbors were really excited about that. And, you know, that was a, It wasn't an easy choice. That's $150,000 wall. You know what I mean? So, What happened was we got the material changed, but again, because we're novice builders and I know the city's really busy and people are hard to get a hold of. And sometimes there's not a lot of communication going on. You can go weeks without anyone responding. Um, What happened was we didn't know that once we got the planning approval, we just didn't know that we had to move on to building as well. We just thought, like, because we'd already got the building permit, we're just novice builders. We didn't know any of this stuff. So, and we also didn't know that the engineering was changing either. Because again, we never were trying to pretend to be these big bad builders. We were just trying to build a dream house in Sausalito that ultimately we're not gonna be able to move into just because of financial situations over all these years. But what happened was, when we put up the actual wall I just want to be clear about something because I heard you guys say multiple times that we installed it improperly. We did not install it improperly. We installed it 100% to the sound wall plans, and it actually would be considered improper right now, meaning the side with the slats that you guys see. That's supposed to be facing the sound. But with all the research that the neighbors and we did What happened, what was happening was the sound was coming up over the wall and it was bouncing off the hard surface of the new siding on the house and then bouncing back to the smooth surface of the wall and then bouncing back into the neighborhood. And so that's why everyone was thinking, hey, well maybe if we actually turn the panels around, When the sound comes over and bounces off the siding, it will actually get absorbed. even though that's the wrong side, it'll get absorbed and it won't bounce back to the, to the rest of the neighborhood. And that's actually what happened. It was basically a miracle. And, um, I know Jeffrey, you were saying earlier, like the sound wall is not doing that house and I would actually have to disagree because You'd have to know what it was like without the wall there. Um, to actually be able to make that comment and that wall makes a huge difference. But what people don't realize about sound walls is it's 100% impossible to like, get rid of all sound, unless you were to sound wall the whole neighborhood. Cause it's always going to drive sound somewhere. It has to go somewhere sounds energy. It's always moving. So ultimately When we turn it around, like it was such a difference in the neighbors and they were so grateful, like literally like our one neighbors, they hadn't been able to sleep in like a couple months because the sound was, they would hear like. revving and this and that. And to make a long story short, all the neighbors were so happy and so grateful and And, you know. That's kind of where we're at today. And just to kind of make a long story short, just to let everyone know. We are hoping that we can get this approved tonight for multiple reasons. First reason, it's been six years. Second reason is we're in forbearance on the loan. It's $30,000 a month, and we don't have that type of money. And we're literally days, if not weeks, away from... losing that house in general and then it go into foreclosure and basically being then it's not gonna sell for at least probably a year to a year and a half. It's just not a good situation for us to be in. So we're just hoping that somehow, some way. especially since the neighbors are happy, we can somehow move forward on this. And as you guys know, this is like a 20 year saga because that was an eyesore. That house was a 100% complete eyesore. Now it's a beautiful, beautiful house. And we're in escrow with a buyer. And we've been in escrow for 90 days on a five day close. but we can't get final because of this. And so like literally, It's one of those scenarios where If something, I know that there's so many different opinions, but I just am being authentic and straightforward with everyone. If something doesn't happen soon, the house is going into foreclosure. So we're just hoping that that doesn't happen. And there's something that we can do to figure out a way that we can move forward tonight and close so that these buyers can move in and they're really excited to be in that neighborhood. And we can... just close the chapter on a six year scenario that has been, I'll just say extremely unpleasant for novice builders. And so that's really all I can say. I don't have like a major presentation, but I can definitely answer some of your questions. |
| 00:45:47.77 | Kristina Feller | Thank you so much, Mr. Burke. Let's go ahead and stop the timer clock Zoom team. So Mr. Burke has additional time. If we can go back to by 7.50, that would be great. for Waterston. I'm just going to make note of that. If you need more time at the end, Thank you for your presentation and explaining some of this to us. At this time, I'd like to ask the commissioners if they have any questions. of the applicant at this time. Um, uh, Commissioner Luxenberg, do you have any questions for the applicant? |
| 00:46:21.50 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I guess I, are you saying that you research putting this wood fence in that was part of the original application and it would not do, I mean, I don't know what it was like before. I just know I went out and looked at the site. It was during the day that it wasn't much traffic and the sound was very large. So the fence didn't seem to be doing the job. So the question I have is, are you saying that the wood fence that was originally approved You researched it and the decibel levels reduction would be less on the wood fence than this. And we don't have any data that shows what the reduction is from for this one versus the, you know, you're flipping it around. So you didn't rotate it 90 degrees, you flipped it over, is that what you're saying? |
| 00:47:14.69 | Ryan Burke | we flipped the panel. So the side that's facing the freeway now is actually like the side that kind of looks like wood. but we flipped it around to see, because we thought that the sound bouncing off the house, coming back at the wall, it would absorb it. So it didn't, because the smooth surfaces bounce sound. And here's the challenge, no matter what anyone does, It's on a freeway. That's the challenge. Like, so there's all these different opinions of sounds and decimals. It sits on a freeway. Like when we, when the neighbors had complaints, we hired someone to come out and do some tests. And when he got there, he was like, wait a second. Like, are you serious? This is on a freeway. The house is on a freeway and people are saying it's your fault. I mean, like, so we were doing everything we can because we're very sympathetic, but at the end of the day, yeah, it's on a freeway. There's always gonna be noise unless you were able to go extremely high and do a wall around the whole neighborhood and come all the way down on property that's not ours. But yes, based on that company, AIL Soundwalls and the research that they have done, not that we did and their statistics, These sound walls reduce sound more than a wood wall because of the acoustic mineral wool that's inside of it. |
| 00:48:34.21 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Did you talk to them when you had this problem and you told them you were flipping these? Did they comment about, because that's not the way their product is designed. So did they comment on whether that was an acceptable solution or did they I mean, should they have the grooves on both sides to absorb it both ways? I mean, it sounds like their product doesn't do what it's spec to do. That's what I can get from what you're telling me. |
| 00:48:59.93 | Ryan Burke | Well, I don't know. I don't want to defend their product, and I'm not a huge sound expert, but what I do know is that from when the sound specialist came out, And the way they're explaining sound and it's just all sound waves and it's all energy, it's always moving. So it's always going to go somewhere and ultimately. He said the biggest misconception to sound walls, and he runs into this all the time, is people think that they put up a sound wall and there's not going to be any sound. And that's just not the case if you're on a freeway, unless everything's perfect, meaning like if the house was positioned way lower on the cliff, right? Because what happens is there has to be, there has to be so much clearance between the roof and the actual top of the wall to try to eliminate even more. There's, it's impossible to eliminate on sound in that neighborhood. You just, you can't do it. But what I will say that the neighbors are like really, really happy. Everyone's really happy right now. And it's been years that everyone was waiting for a sound wall. |
| 00:50:06.80 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I'm still going back. Did you get the song wall manufacturer is aware that you flipped these. I don't understand whether they came out, whether you flipped it because somebody suggested it and it seems to work, or whether the manufacturers of this product said flipping it is fine, they'll actually solve the problem that was caused. |
| 00:50:31.47 | Ryan Burke | Well, they didn't say it will solve the problem. Cause again, there's just no way to 100% solve the problem. But what they said is that could be a good idea to try to flip it. And then the sound expert that we hired. that came out and did the sound testing and all that stuff. He basically said from a physics standpoint, that could be a good idea as well. Cause like I said, the sound is bouncing off the smooth surface. So where the house is positioned, the sounds coming over the wall and it's bouncing. Here's the house right here. It's bouncing off the smooth surface of the siding, going in between the driveway back to the wall. And then because the wall smooth surface, the right surface was there. It was bouncing right into the neighbor's house and into the rest of the neighborhood. So this is like an unorthodox approach. It's not supposed to be set up this way, but because of physics and the way the energy travels and smooth surfaces reflect sound, it just ended up being the perfect solution that made everyone happy. It was like one of those things where it was like, We didn't know, I mean, just to turn it around, it cost 10 grand and we didn't even know if we could, we could, it was going to do anything, but we just, we felt so bad for the neighbors. And we just wanted to, we built a 75 foot fence, wood fence on the other side between the neighbor's house and our house, thinking that that might help block some sound as well. I mean, we tried so many different things. |
| 00:51:52.51 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Can I ask one final thing? Do you have any documentation from the neighbors? Because I'm a little worried that, you know, you're saying all the neighbors are fine, but maybe somebody's away due to the pandemic and they haven't had, do you have documentation of who you talk to from the neighbors so that we, We know that the entire neighborhood has been consulted and they've signed off and said this was great. I know, I believe that whoever you talked to said what you said they said. I'm not questioning what you're telling me, but I don't know that have you done a thorough Do you have a list of who you've talked to or any emails from them or anything that you can provide us with? |
| 00:52:30.32 | Ryan Burke | Yeah, so originally when we found out about the complaint, it was our direct neighbors, Allison and Chantel, And they had talked to three other neighbors and they had all got together and got on one email that allison had sent to us and so those were the four individuals that were complaining about noise One of them was Donna, who was actually like two football fields away down the street. But because they repaved Caltrans and they recently cut down a bunch of trees, the fire department made them cut down a bunch of trees. That also changed the noise as well, driving it down. She was concerned because she wanted to sell her house and she thought the noise would maybe affect the sale, but... She put her house on the market, sold gone. So, so, so we know she's out of it because she sold her house in like three days. She doesn't live there anymore. but she was very, she told me that she was happy. I have text chains to show that, but she doesn't live there anymore. So the other neighbors- |
| 00:53:32.56 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. I'm not sure. |
| 00:53:33.03 | Ryan Burke | to the new owners. |
| 00:53:34.20 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 00:53:34.31 | Ryan Burke | Thank you. |
| 00:53:35.28 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 00:53:36.32 | Ryan Burke | The new owners? No, I haven't. No, I'm not going to. owners, but they wouldn't know because they didn't know anything about it before, but our direct neighbors, they were the ones that were in contact with all the other neighbors. |
| 00:53:39.70 | Jeffery Luxenberg | It was. |
| 00:53:48.44 | Ryan Burke | And so we were going through them and they're the ones that emailed Lily. and said, everyone's, you know, we're happy with this. So, so yes, there is documentation and they emailed Lily. And I also have text chains as well. |
| 00:54:01.99 | Kristina Feller | Commissioner Luxembourg, this is a publicly noticed hearing regarding this issue. So the entire community, not just the neighbors. have this opportunity and we will go to public comment once we're finished. here with the applicant. And then of course the city was party to the community. the community meeting with Mr. Burke here. So there's been those opportunities, I believe, to do so. |
| 00:54:30.05 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you, Chair Feller. Can I just ask, Justin, do you have those emails? Can you forward those to us? |
| 00:54:36.97 | Justin Klapparda | I don't, but I can coordinate with director Whelan and get those to you all. |
| 00:54:42.91 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 00:54:42.94 | Justin Klapparda | Thank you. |
| 00:54:42.98 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Okay. |
| 00:54:43.23 | Justin Klapparda | Thank you. |
| 00:54:43.99 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:54:44.48 | Justin Klapparda | Thank you. |
| 00:54:44.51 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 00:54:44.53 | Justin Klapparda | THE END OF |
| 00:54:44.61 | Jeffery Luxenberg | And, uh, I think, uh, |
| 00:54:44.68 | Justin Klapparda | to the next one. |
| 00:54:44.77 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 00:54:45.71 | Kristina Feller | Anything else for the applicants? |
| 00:54:46.10 | Jeffery Luxenberg | pleasure. |
| 00:54:46.59 | Justin Klapparda | Thank you. |
| 00:54:46.61 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. Not at this time, Sheriff Haller. Thank you very much. |
| 00:54:52.01 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Commissioner Pierce. Oh, you're on mute there. Thank you, Morgan. |
| 00:54:58.10 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you very much. Thank you, Chair Feller. I have two questions for the applicant. Mr. Burke, the original application specified clear cedar. How did you come to select the bright colored material from the manufacturer, as opposed to some of the other darker, softer, materials that they offer. |
| 00:55:17.03 | Ryan Burke | So actually I was dealing with David Cherson off at the time who was, I believe the senior planner. And when we submitted the brochure for the sound wall with the different options, The planning department actually on our planning approval said it's approved based on these conditions, you have to pick this color and this surface. And if for some reason, once it's done, it's too reflective and you agree to paint it. |
| 00:55:39.53 | Kwok Yin Chong | Thank you. |
| 00:55:39.56 | Morgan Pierce | And if we're not going to be, |
| 00:55:45.23 | Ryan Burke | So, so planning was actually the ones who picked that, not us. Thank you. |
| 00:55:48.71 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. |
| 00:55:48.74 | Ryan Burke | Thank you. |
| 00:55:48.76 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. |
| 00:55:48.77 | Ryan Burke | Thank you. |
| 00:55:49.47 | Morgan Pierce | My other question is, how did you come to construct a six foot high retaining wall without permits? |
| 00:55:55.15 | Ryan Burke | So it wasn't that we... So it's actually, it's not six foot high. The new proposed one is going to be six foot high. It's about like, it's probably like, I think it's like 20 it's it's, it might be like 30 inches. It's actually really small. It just, it was starting to kind of rain and the, just seemed like stuff was going to start to fall down. So it was, it was such a small retaining wall on and talking with the GC, they just, the engineers, we talked with our engineer debt as well. And, um, He actually said, yeah, he like drew a letter up and everything. And he said, everyone thought it was going to be fine. It was such a small wall. So we weren't trying to like break the rules or anything, but we were just trying to create a solution for, that grade and the dirt that looked like it was going to maybe start coming down during storm season. |
| 00:56:44.28 | Morgan Pierce | thank you and i think i i'm sorry i added one more question chair faller um i think one of i think maybe commissioner lusper may have alluded to this but regarding the acoustics did you did you have any acoustical um evaluation made um |
| 00:56:44.46 | Ryan Burke | Thank you. |
| 00:56:59.24 | Morgan Pierce | before the wall. when the wall as presently constructed is, Um, to see any differentiation? Let me just clarify, the wall that's as constructed is not as designed. |
| 00:57:08.03 | Unknown | No. |
| 00:57:13.06 | Morgan Pierce | One that is constructed now is the one that you want and that you're asking for approval for tonight, not the lower wall. |
| 00:57:21.40 | Ryan Burke | Correct, but the materials as of design, but the engineering isn't. The engineering on the wall is different than the engineering on the cedar wall. |
| 00:57:31.61 | Unknown | because it's... |
| 00:57:31.86 | Ryan Burke | Thank you. Steps down, you couldn't go straight like that because you would have had to have like 75 foot beams based on the grade. It's just impossible to do it. So yeah, the material's been approved, but the engineering has not been approved on that wall. And we do. So we didn't do any tests before the wall got put up because it wasn't a condition and we never thought of it. And those tests are like 15 to $30,000. |
| 00:57:55.00 | Nastassya Saad | It's not. |
| 00:57:56.18 | Ryan Burke | Like all of this stuff, it's like, We just, we didn't have any more money. Basically, we ran out of money basically, but so we never thought to do it. because it wasn't a condition and we were under the impression Like most people are with a sound wall. Oh, we got a sound wall going up. This is going to be great. It's a sound wall. But it turns out, you know, Um, You know, people are more a lot of times more disappointed because they had an illusion of what they thought it was going to sound like versus what it actually does. It does reduce. |
| 00:58:24.56 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. |
| 00:58:24.60 | Kristina Feller | I'm not. |
| 00:58:24.68 | Morgan Pierce | you. |
| 00:58:24.85 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 00:58:26.15 | Ryan Burke | Thank you. |
| 00:58:26.17 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you very much. Thank you, Chair. |
| 00:58:27.13 | Ryan Burke | That's all I have. |
| 00:58:27.84 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. |
| 00:58:28.39 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Commissioner Saad, any questions for the applicant? |
| 00:58:32.21 | Nastassya Saad | I just have one if I understood correctly from the staff presentation that part of a condition is that the landscaping plan will happen Um, within a certain timeframe. I'm just wondering if the applicant is prepared to do that. Or if the house does sell now that I understand that from you, Is that something that gets transferred to potentially a new owner? I'm not sure. |
| 00:58:58.97 | Ryan Burke | Bye. |
| 00:58:59.12 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 00:59:01.39 | Ryan Burke | Yeah, no, we're prepared to do it. We bid it out and we're in talks with the city as well. We're prepared to put money in escrow. Um, once we get approvals and just get it done. Like we're and it's it's the it's the original approved landscaping so it's the it's we didn't we didn't try to change anything but it's all up against the wall and because we started having all these kind of issues coming in we didn't want to complete that until. we knew exactly what was gonna happen with the wall because if we had to tear down the wall, then that would have affected all the landscaping. Then we would have to re-landscape again. We are 100% prepared to do it. Like we need to exit out of this as quick as possible because it's about to foreclose. Like we'll start the landscaping tomorrow if we had to. Like we just need to get out of it. |
| 00:59:50.10 | Nastassya Saad | Sure. Yeah, I completely understand your situation. I just wanted to make sure that you were in the position to be able to execute on that particular condition. That's all I had. Thank you, Chair Feller. |
| 00:59:59.06 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:59:59.82 | Ryan Burke | credit cards are for, right? I'm sorry. Thank you. |
| 01:00:02.49 | Kristina Feller | I'll show you a graph. Do you have any questions? |
| 01:00:04.43 | Richard Graef | Um, |
| 01:00:04.99 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 01:00:05.31 | Richard Graef | I have no questions. some of the ones I had have been answered. No. |
| 01:00:15.62 | Kristina Feller | Great. Thank you very much. I don't have any other questions for the applicant at this time either. So I believe at this time, what we'd like to do is open this up for public comment. And Director Whalen, if you could remind our audience here how to comment and raise their hand for public comment. We'll do so at this time. |
| 01:00:42.36 | Director Whalen | Thank you. Now is the time for public comment. Public comment is limited to three minutes per speaker. And, um, We will call on you when it's your time to speak. You can raise your hand in the Zoom application, which you can access under the participants list. and there's a little raise hand icon. You can also press star nine if you're calling in on your phone. And please state your name for the record. And be patient while we unmute you and ask you to share your video. And I do see Chantal here. Raising her hand. |
| 01:01:21.23 | Kristina Feller | Great. Welcome, welcome this evening. Let's get you unmuted. You have three minutes for public comment. |
| 01:01:29.33 | Allison and Chantal | Can you hear us? |
| 01:01:30.78 | Kristina Feller | Yes. |
| 01:01:32.30 | Allison and Chantal | Okay, great. So I'm Allison and Chantal. We're the direct neighbors who were mentioned earlier by Ryan. And we're just to be in support of this process and, you know, clarification that we can provide. I'd say first and foremost, what we'd like to just provide is that We lived beside the construction of this project for three years, and we knew that a sound wall was coming, And maybe we had some type of hope that it would be positive for our family and our home. But from one day to the next, when the sound wall was implemented, we basically experienced what would be described as like a stereo amplifier of freeway noise being broadcasted into our bedroom. and we couldn't sleep anymore. And so we, you know, We, entered a process of engaging with the, you know, with the commission and with the city. And I just want to But personally, Thank Lily. and her team and Kenneth for the attention that they placed to this matter, because for us, it was a matter of not, we felt, that we could no longer rest and it was becoming even a health issue for us. So we were, we're so grateful both to the commission and to Lily and Kenneth and all people involved who helped us to pursue understanding what was happening. We did do research on the wall. and found that the side that it was, you can say correct or incorrectly installed. It's hard to understand. There is a sound side that's reflective And aside this absorptive, And when you look on the website of the company, They show that presentation in different contexts, like the reflective side towards train tracks, But this was a unique situation. where the wall was stepping down and the reflective side was towards the house, creating kind of an echo chamber. We, yes, we suggested that it be turned around. And after the wall was turned around, that amplification or that stereo effect went away. So, from our perspective, we see it as normal. We don't see the sound wall as a positive to us, and we can't determine whether it was to the house. What we see is that, we're in the condition that we were in prior to the wall being erected. And so for us as neighbors, we don't feel that we have any right to ask Ryan to mitigate the standard noise, whatever he was planning to do for his house. It was his plan and for that part of it, the amplification process was completed. We then wrote Lily and told her that. But so in that email, we did tell her we have no right to speak for Donna or Jim or the other neighbors. So we do not make any representation that we were spokespeople for the neighbors. Well, I'll... Close it down. |
| 01:04:35.39 | Kristina Feller | Thank you very much. |
| 01:04:36.07 | Morgan Pierce | Chair Feller-Baita, I asked a question of the neighbors. |
| 01:04:36.08 | Allison and Chantal | Thank you. |
| 01:04:36.10 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 01:04:36.12 | Allison and Chantal | THE END OF |
| 01:04:36.17 | Kristina Feller | I'm sorry. Thank you. You may, yes. |
| 01:04:40.39 | Morgan Pierce | Great, thank you very much. And we really appreciate when members of the community come out to voice their opinions or observations. And I had a quick question. Please feel free to ask for more clarification, If you could on a scale from one to 10, measure the sound, say, before the fence, when the new fence was erected and then when the mitigation effects were made. Could you give us sort of three different numbers of what that might reflect? |
| 01:05:13.78 | Allison and Chantal | Yeah, I mean, I want to try to be as fair as possible. Let's say Before the fence, it was a five. Let's say. after the original implementation, 9.5. |
| 01:05:31.84 | Kwok Yin Chong | I mean... |
| 01:05:33.09 | Allison and Chantal | For us, we're talking- Motorcycle. Motorcycles, extended timeframes for 30 to 45 seconds. |
| 01:05:35.11 | Unknown | Motor. cycles. |
| 01:05:36.07 | Kwok Yin Chong | Thank you. |
| 01:05:40.34 | Allison and Chantal | And after, I think I'm gonna be honest with you, Commissioner, that was so kind of traumatizing. |
| 01:05:47.35 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 01:05:47.78 | Allison and Chantal | That we're just so happy that it was done, that it's somewhere close to where it was. It's either four and a half or five and a half, and we're fine. |
| 01:05:51.26 | Jeffery Luxenberg | either. |
| 01:05:54.43 | Allison and Chantal | Um, it's hard for us to distinguish because the amplification effect was so, so difficult, but it's not better, not substantially or remarkably better than it was. |
| 01:06:04.14 | Morgan Pierce | Yep. Thank you so much. |
| 01:06:06.25 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Thank you. Thank you both. Any other members of the public wish to make comment on this particular Matter. At this time, I'm looking for raised hands and. Zoom team, if you see one before I do, please let me know. I do not see any other raised hands at this time, so I will close public comment. and I will bring the discussion back up to our virtual dais to the commission. |
| 01:06:41.94 | Kristina Feller | Would anyone like to start the conversation? Commissioner Pearce. |
| 01:06:46.85 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. We're so used to be calling on us, so I'm just waiting for the nod. |
| 01:06:50.78 | Kristina Feller | Good night. Are you satisfied with some of the input from the neighbors at this time? |
| 01:06:59.44 | Morgan Pierce | Wait, what do you mean by satisfied? |
| 01:07:02.42 | Kristina Feller | Um, Did you get a satisfactory answer? Did you get your question answered? Oh, yes. |
| 01:07:06.54 | Morgan Pierce | Oh, yes, yes. No, I thought they were very helpful. And again, I appreciate their willingness to come out here. But yeah, I have some comments that I'd love to share with my fellow commissioners. That's the kick it off. and pardon me if I look away because I'm looking at all the notes I wrote. As some of you may know, I have the unique benefit of being the only planning commissioner on our present lineup who reviewed this project when it was approved by a very slim majority And it was not an easy approval as we had many meetings because the non-resident developer appeared completely insensitive to the character of the neighborhood from a variety of aspects, including scale, privacy, setbacks from the adjacent neighbor, and overall character. And the home appeared distinctly ill-configured for this particular site. At that time, the planning commission expressed concerns about the acoustical impact of the wall and while it may benefit the applicant, what impact might have on neighboring properties and those were left unresolved throughout the application. Without documentation, I can only assume the acoustical implications to the neighbors and neighborhood are I don't know. I'm not really sure what they thought. I feel like I can't really make a decision until I have that information. Um, I will note that there are nearby properties on Curry Lane and Crescenta Lane that observe similar impacts from Highway 101, yet they have no sound walls because the homes were designed deliberately to address this. I pass this property daily. Um, and the immense as-built bright and looming fence is visually incompatible with the neighborhood and the landscape specified will do little to tame this impact for the next decade or more. The reason it was not mentioned during the last Planning Commission review was that it was specified as smooth cedar, which turned a soft, natural-appearing gray and blended into the background. Based on the size of the wall, the PC would have expected to review samples when they was requested to be changed and likely would have recommended a darker color. Subsequently, I feel the ministerial approval of the material change was not consistent with the observations and intent of the Planning Commission's approval of when this was originally reviewed. I think I mentioned this earlier, the plants specified are completely inadequate at a mature size and density to mitigate the visual impacts of this wall. Um, Finally, I'm unable to make the following design review findings. Number two, regarding the architecture and site design complements the surrounding neighborhood and district by maintaining design character, introducing distinctive. It does not. It is. a huge abomination as this bright white and gray. thing traversing the landscape that no other property in Sausalito seems to share. Will a proposed project consistent with general scale and structures? No, it is far out of scale. The proposed landscaper provides appropriate visual relief compliments the buildings. No, it does not compliment it at all. It is mere window dressing. I would recommend one of the following mitigation measures. A paint the fence to blend in to the natural environment as directed by, I believe the agreement with the planning department when the material change was requested. and only if it meets the acoustic requirements from the neighbors. ultimately replace the material with a super super a suitable alternative Or, remove the fence altogether and replace with more dense planting and return the acoustical conditions of the neighborhood back to their original status. That is all I have. |
| 01:10:36.65 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Thank you. Any other thoughts or comments or thoughts or comments to Commissioner Pierce's observations here? |
| 01:10:50.00 | Kristina Feller | Vice Chair. |
| 01:10:51.89 | Richard Graef | Yeah. I have the same uh, uh, impression about the wall. It's very large and very bright. And my first instinct was paint it. just make it go away. And I think if we do have an approval uh, pending here if we get there. I think that would certainly be one of the main conditions. As far as the landscaping goes, I can't comment because I don't know that much about plants or not as much as I think that's what Commissioner Pierce does. I would. respect his opinion about that. And so maybe that landscape situation needs to be addressed. more completely in order to make a determination I, I actually am in sympathy with the applicant in that it seems like They have and everybody has really tried hard to do something about the noise problem. and has not been terribly successful at it, which is unfortunate. And there that wall sits. Um, you know, my, My feeling would be with proper landscaping and painting the wall, that I could probably make the findings. But as it stands, I'm with Commissioner Pierce. |
| 01:12:28.45 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Vice Chair Groff. Well, where we're deliberating here, if I could ask Justin again, to look into the landscaping that or the and the the plants that are supposed to be planted once there's a determination one way or the other with this wall If you can be prepared with that here shortly, that would be great. Um, Commissioner Saad, what are your thoughts about about this. |
| 01:12:58.96 | Nastassya Saad | Um, Thank you Chair Feller I think I I do agree with my fellow commissioners in terms of In terms of painting, I do think it was an incredibly jarring, stark color to see and come across. I also though do agree and perhaps it can be one of our conditions in order because I think we may I don't wanna speak for everyone, but I think at least the three of us are definitely agreeing on on the color and the brightness being an issue. So I think painting is a really great idea. Um, I am also I am concerned a little bit about the retaining wall. I think I do understand from what the, applicant said that there was a necessity. I just want to call out, you know, that's it's not the process and just to be mindful of that and have that on. on record to build that's not according to your to your plans just for the greater good of everyone. Um, I also agree though with you, Chair Feller. I mean, it is a publicly noticed meeting. I think it's great that we had public comment from the direct neighbors. And I think if there was a continued sound issue from the wall directly, we would have heard about it in some type of communication, either through staff or ideally people. coming to join us in this meeting. So I feel like without further public comment or input, to leave it at, the sound issue is most likely resolved from this unorthodox approach to the wall. I think we only can go on what we have there. So I think I'd be able to make the findings. I think it would be helpful for a condition about painting. I would definitely agree with that. |
| 01:14:41.10 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Thank you, thank you very much. Commissioner Luxenberg, any further thoughts to add to possibly conditioning this. |
| 01:14:52.86 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I appreciate it. Commissioner Pierce comments because I wasn't on the commission when this was approved. I'm still struggling with trying to understand whether the Commission required this wall or whether it was proposed and you reviewed it. But it sounds like the sound goes over the top of the wall, hits the house, hits the wall, reflects. So I appreciate that the neighbors have this reverberation, but it sounds like It doesn't solve a Any problems? and painting it Uh, my, might address the the fact that it's large and oversized and sort of disconcerting because of its size, But I'm, I would have liked to have known what the BBs were before they put it in and what they put in afterwards, because if it's not doing its job, maybe it'd be better to be gone and replace it with landscape. I mean, it's, it sounds like the though because of the slope and because they put the house way back in the lot that This fence doesn't do what it's designing what they hoped the design would do. Therefore, if it's not doing anything, it doesn't need to be there. concur maybe landscaping would be a better alternative than keeping this it doesn't sound like Helping it made it any better for the neighbors. It sounds like reversing it took away the problem that it created in the first place. So I'm at a loss of what to do here. |
| 01:16:26.35 | Kristina Feller | Well, I mean, I think we need to go back to exactly what this application is for. And this, the A sound wall, was part of the original. design review and design review approval. And so, This applicant is looking for a modification to what was approved. We're not here to completely re-deliberate the entire design of what this property is. And what it was before, there was also a very different structure there. And it's not my place any more than anyone else's to know. what that decibel reading was at that time because if one was not taken One was taken. at the time that the neighbors started to complain about the amplification and the reverberation of the sound from the wall when it was originally installed. What I would like to recommend is that one is taken now. So at least we have a metric. So should there be any future complaints, we have a metric for which we are dealing with. Um, I still want to understand what this landscaping is that's supposed to go in there. There was nothing included in our packet to understand what that might be. But certainly visually landscape can help soften this wall, which I think is an eyesore. But in addition to that, landscape is always a wonderful natural. sound absorber. when used in the proper application. Um, I would certainly want to paint the wall. or request that it be painted, I would want to add plants to mask the wall. And I would want to require a decibel reading today. or maybe when the plants are in. that That's what I'm looking for as it relates to the retaining wall, I, too, I, you know, I never like when, um, when the community, particularly on a structural member, like a retaining wall where you have sloughing off of soils sort of take matters into their own hands. We have ordinances and requirements and building codes and such for a reason, and that's for your safety. And so I, I don't like it when that happens, but I can understand why a retaining wall might be required. And as far as it relates to the windows versus the sliding doors, I don't have an issue with that. So I have no comment on that. So, Do we all agree that we would want the wall painted? |
| 01:19:14.80 | Kristina Feller | would we get closer to making our findings if we we could do so. |
| 01:19:21.41 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Let me ask a question. Are we approving a variance to go from an eight foot wood wall to a 14 foot PVC wall? Is that what is before us? We have to make findings in that regard? Is that, I want to make sure what's before. |
| 01:19:39.06 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, well, let me, I can. I can read this out for us here as well. And so can the if I could ask the director Whalen to come, there are three items that we're looking at. The sound of |
| 01:19:50.73 | Jeffery Luxenberg | The sound. There's three items. I'm just, I want to get to the, just the fence. Just so I understand. I guess my question is, are we approving a change from an 8-foot fence to a 14-foot fence? Are we approving a change from a from an eight foot wood fence to a 14 foot PVC fence, are we approving a change from a 14 foot, I'm sorry, from an eight foot PVC fence to a 14 foot PVC? |
| 01:20:17.62 | Kristina Feller | No, what's in front of us here is the increase from the eight feet to the 14 feet, that's one issue. The second issue is the wood to the PVC. So there are two issues related to |
| 01:20:28.68 | Unknown | So they're two. |
| 01:20:31.14 | Kristina Feller | to the sound wall. We're here regarding the rear facade window alteration. And we're here about the new retaining wall, the six-foot-high rear yard wood retaining wall. that was not included in the original design approval. So those three items are what we're here tonight to approve. |
| 01:20:52.27 | Jeffery Luxenberg | And the wall that's there now on the retaining wall is shorter and they're going to shore up that wall and just make it taller. I, I thought what we were approving it as built, but it has not been built yet. Is that the way I understand it now? |
| 01:21:05.73 | Kristina Feller | The six foot retaining wall that you're referring to? |
| 01:21:07.71 | Jeffery Luxenberg | to the Thank you. |
| 01:21:09.40 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:21:09.65 | Kristina Feller | So, Justin, can you come back up here on screen |
| 01:21:09.67 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:21:14.26 | Kristina Feller | and tell us from the inspector, from Kenneth, exactly what is built there today. |
| 01:21:20.42 | Justin Klapparda | Yeah, so what is built there today is the wall that the applicant was describing and what the request is, is the six foot rotating wall. And that's what we're asking you bring forward to you all today is the request for that rear yard retaining walls. |
| 01:21:39.42 | Kristina Feller | So it is not built yet, it is requested to be built just for clarification here at the commission. |
| 01:21:45.81 | Justin Klapparda | Correct. There is a repeating wall there in the lower one that the applicant, yeah. |
| 01:21:47.30 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 01:21:47.33 | Kristina Feller | I agree. |
| 01:21:47.52 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I'm just reading well there. |
| 01:21:50.64 | Justin Klapparda | Correct. |
| 01:21:54.47 | Jeffery Luxenberg | So they're just going to build up that existing wall higher. |
| 01:21:57.41 | Justin Klapparda | Thank you. as I understand it, it would be replaced rather than built up higher. |
| 01:22:06.69 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Okay. but in the same location, but just |
| 01:22:10.13 | Justin Klapparda | Correct. Yeah. |
| 01:22:13.23 | Jeffery Luxenberg | with the same intention. |
| 01:22:14.03 | Justin Klapparda | rule. same materials. Mm-hmm. It'd be a wood retaining wall. Thank you. |
| 01:22:20.68 | Nastassya Saad | but may I just ask just for my own understanding the, what was built. although lower than the six feet, that was still not part of the original Reveal. findings that were permitted. OK, I just want to clarify that. |
| 01:22:33.96 | Jeffery Luxenberg | All right. |
| 01:22:34.21 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:22:36.94 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Does this change the landscaping through the chair to Justin? Does this change that? Because there wasn't going to be a retaining wall. So does the landscape have to be moved from what the approved landscape plan is? |
| 01:22:49.48 | Justin Klapparda | No, the landscaping would be implemented as approved. So there would be no change to the landscaping. |
| 01:22:56.16 | Jeffery Luxenberg | So there would be no changes. |
| 01:22:59.73 | Justin Klapparda | Is it the plan is going higher? |
| 01:22:59.83 | Jeffery Luxenberg | that the plan is going high. |
| 01:23:02.68 | Justin Klapparda | I'm sorry. |
| 01:23:03.96 | Jeffery Luxenberg | won't the plans have to go in higher because there wasn't this retaining |
| 01:23:09.21 | Justin Klapparda | Physically, they will have to be moved, but there would be no change to the landscaping that was included in your package. |
| 01:23:09.26 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 01:23:09.28 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 01:23:09.41 | Kristina Feller | to do. |
| 01:23:16.04 | Kristina Feller | So Justin, there was no keeping where this retaining wall is meant to be. Is that correct? |
| 01:23:26.27 | Justin Klapparda | Correct. |
| 01:23:27.05 | Kristina Feller | Okay, so Jeffrey, Commissioner Luxembourg, that's the answer is the retaining wall in the back. had no landscape. requirement to be planted there. So there's no impact to landscape. The only thing we have to- |
| 01:23:42.17 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Cool. |
| 01:23:42.96 | Kristina Feller | that we're talking about is a landscape where the sound wall is that isn't planted yet. base, you know, cause this applicant is waiting for the determination of this commission. regarding that sound wall. |
| 01:23:56.07 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I just looked at what was there and thought there needed to be plants inside of this retaining wall. I'm surprised that there wasn't anything there originally. Was the landscape plan in the packet, do you have that? |
| 01:24:10.99 | Justin Klapparda | it was attachment eight in your package. Okay, I got it. |
| 01:24:19.75 | Kristina Feller | Justin, could you put that up on the screen for the benefit of the commission here? I see everyone's going to look at it just so we can... Amen. address this matter and move on in our deliberation. |
| 01:24:37.06 | Justin Klapparda | There you are. |
| 01:24:38.70 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 01:24:38.83 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 01:24:38.92 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 01:24:43.00 | Kristina Feller | So do you want to use- |
| 01:24:43.61 | Richard Graef | Retaining the wall is square. Thank you. |
| 01:24:48.06 | Kristina Feller | Justin, could you use your cursor to show us where this retaining wall is? You're on mute, Justin. |
| 01:24:57.68 | Justin Klapparda | I apologize. So we can also bring up the plan sheet or the retaining walls. Um, just to give you an idea, but the retaining wall is interior to the sides and the rear Um, I think I'd like to bring that up as well, if possible. |
| 01:25:15.28 | Kristina Feller | Sure. Whatever you need to bring up, that's fine. |
| 01:25:18.13 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Is it around the water feature? Where's the water feature related to the of the, um, retaining one. |
| 01:25:31.09 | Justin Klapparda | I THINK I'M GOING TO BE Thank you. Sorry, I apologize. I'm not familiar with the water feature that wasn't part of my initial review, I can go ahead and share my screen with what I have right now. because it is its own separate sheet. Shauna, if you can allow me to do that. I apologize. |
| 01:25:52.64 | Kristina Feller | That's okay. |
| 01:25:56.49 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Do you know when the water feature is going to be finished? |
| 01:26:00.20 | Justin Klapparda | I do not. So the retaining wall is is here. on the site, so it's on the... |
| 01:26:11.10 | Kristina Feller | West side. |
| 01:26:12.05 | Justin Klapparda | West side of the property, thank you. And then I can zoom in for you. |
| 01:26:27.35 | Justin Klapparda | Here we are. |
| 01:26:33.41 | Christy (City Staff) | Okay. |
| 01:26:35.17 | Jeffery Luxenberg | So I am seeing trees where that water feature is. Are those trees not gonna go in or? |
| 01:26:40.30 | Justin Klapparda | Thank you. The that was the point. So the my understanding is I did not there's no change to landscaping plan. |
| 01:26:43.02 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 01:26:50.31 | Justin Klapparda | If there is any that would have to be included as a condition, which I can discussed with staff but as the landscaping would be as proposed. There was no change to like the orientation that I included as my part of my review. |
| 01:27:05.44 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Can you go back to the other plan you just had up and zoom in on this area? Because I think this is changing significantly because there's a water feature that's not, on this plan? Are they taking that out? And there's a bunch of other things and there's some trees. So if you could look at if you could zoom in the way you zoomed in here. |
| 01:27:23.80 | Justin Klapparda | Yeah. |
| 01:27:24.95 | Kristina Feller | Oh, that is. |
| 01:27:25.02 | Jeffery Luxenberg | So, in that area. |
| 01:27:26.15 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. The other thing to note here again, we need to focus on the three items that this applicant that we have to deliberate over right now. all we can condition this entire Um, um, process on ensuring that the original everything else on the original design review must be met for a sign off here. I don't want to get into items that are not We're not here for that kind of a design review on all for this application. because that's already been approved. |
| 01:28:04.96 | Jeffery Luxenberg | No, I understand, but if trees are where, if there's a bunch of trees going where this wall is, then it's hard to approve this wall and approve the plan as is without a revised plan. If the two plans are inconsistent, then and we're approving the plan here. That means that we're taking these trees out. And where are you? |
| 01:28:27.45 | Kristina Feller | There's already a wall that exists. Thank you. where they're requesting a retaining wall. Is that correct, Justin? |
| 01:28:36.89 | Justin Klapparda | Yeah. |
| 01:28:37.75 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 01:28:42.41 | Morgan Pierce | But maybe this is- |
| 01:28:42.78 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Maybe this... |
| 01:28:44.14 | Morgan Pierce | Sorry, go ahead. |
| 01:28:45.63 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Can you move the cursor to where, if you can move your cursor slightly to the left, no, no, no. Move the cursor, not the, don't move the plan because you just cut off the area. So, bring up the area that I think we're talking about, and I see a bunch of plans, move up a little bit Right there is where that wall is, right? Am I misunderstanding? Right there. So there's all these plants that are supposed to go, some of which will be on one side of the wall and some are on the other. And I don't know. How does this work? I mean, because the retaining wall plan and the planning plan seem inconsistent. But maybe I'm misunderstanding. |
| 01:29:29.02 | Morgan Pierce | Well, may I add something to the Commissioner Luxembourg's concern? You know, we're asking to approve a retaining wall that's in some places six feet and six inches higher. believe than what was originally approved. and the plantings in front of that. are not adequate to provide aggregate screening based on the original intent. So I believe we do need to be reviewing the planting plan in accordance with the other approved. |
| 01:29:56.86 | Kristina Feller | What are those plants, Justin? Are those trees or are they bushes? Are they shrubs? |
| 01:30:02.02 | Justin Klapparda | These plants here you're referring to, correct? |
| 01:30:06.19 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, if you zoom in, maybe we could see them. |
| 01:30:09.97 | Justin Klapparda | These are supposed to. I'm sorry. These are spurns. FURNS AND specifically Um, We have a mixture of ferns back here, shrubs, Burns and Trump. per the landscaping key. |
| 01:30:36.41 | Kristina Feller | So ferns and shrubs, okay. |
| 01:30:38.83 | Justin Klapparda | Yes. |
| 01:30:39.59 | Kristina Feller | And that's a pretty steep slope there. I don't know. Okay. Okay. And did you review and analyze that whether or not these plants could still be planted? if there's a wall or no wall. I mean, I was- |
| 01:30:59.94 | Justin Klapparda | That was unfortunately not part of my review, but perhaps director Whelan can help to pitch in. |
| 01:31:09.93 | Kristina Feller | That would be helpful because the real question is, are those plants there now? first of all, and second of all, Um, you know, do you see a conflict with putting a retaining wall here and being able to replant those same plants above that retaining wall. |
| 01:31:32.24 | Director Whalen | Thank you, Chair Feller. I think it would probably be best to have the applicant respond to some of these questions at this point. Our understanding from the applicant was that the, Thanksgiving plan that they provided. HAB-Charlotte Pitts, Consistent with the planning Commission approved plans and they are planning on planting plan. um, as it was prescribed by the Planning Commission. If there are conflicts with this new wall and the landscaping plan, I think that the applicant |
| 01:32:00.30 | Kristina Feller | time. Okay. |
| 01:32:01.31 | Director Whalen | Okay. |
| 01:32:02.17 | Kristina Feller | on those questions. So can we give Mr. Burke, the ability to unmute and turn his camera on and help us answer this question. |
| 01:32:17.71 | Kristina Feller | Mr. Burke, are you there? |
| 01:32:19.13 | Ryan Burke | Yeah, I'm here. I'm just trying to turn my camera on, but it won't let me. |
| 01:32:22.37 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 01:32:28.43 | Kristina Feller | So even without your camera, could you help the commission here understand this area where you would like to put this retaining wall. Are there, did you plant that area already? or were you waiting to see what we would say about the retaining wall to plant that area. |
| 01:32:50.91 | Ryan Burke | Yeah, we're... |
| 01:32:51.58 | Kristina Feller | Right. |
| 01:32:51.72 | Ryan Burke | Thank you. |
| 01:32:51.75 | Kristina Feller | it. |
| 01:32:52.63 | Ryan Burke | Basically, once we started getting noise issues and all those things, we've been waiting on all these things because we just don't know exactly what's going to happen. So we've been waiting on that, but we're planting. we're not planting ferns and shrubs. We, I mean, we're planting, um, Sequoia tree, we're playing I might not be saying he's all right. We're planting eight. Aser, Sinatrum trees, we're planting 15. Ramesses. We're planting nine pits porums. We're planting 22 woodwardias. We're planting six euphorias. I don't know if I'm saying all these right. We're planting 24 part parthenesias we're planting eight sang white circles we're planting five vibram foliums we're planting 34 polysitchums we're planting 17 helitrodichens we're planting 14 lamandras we're 42. |
| 01:33:53.33 | Kristina Feller | Mr. Thorpe? |
| 01:33:54.95 | Ryan Burke | Yeah. |
| 01:33:55.67 | Kristina Feller | Could you maybe comment exactly where you're looking for this the retaining wall the six foot retaining wall Have you planted where that retaining wall where you're requesting that retaining wall go are those shrubs planted |
| 01:34:12.68 | Ryan Burke | Nope, there's nothing planted there. |
| 01:34:14.88 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Okay. And there are no trees back in that area now. |
| 01:34:23.99 | Ryan Burke | Nope. Everything that's there was already existing. We haven't planted anything new in those areas. That's what we're planting. That's what I was reading off. It's going to be like close to 150 acres. trees slash plants. |
| 01:34:37.22 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 01:34:38.25 | Ryan Burke | Yeah. |
| 01:34:38.57 | Kristina Feller | I appreciate the magnitude of the landscaping. Yeah. But we were just sort of trying to ask about where this retaining wall is going. Not the sound wall, but the retaining wall. |
| 01:34:42.64 | Ryan Burke | Yeah. |
| 01:34:50.84 | Ryan Burke | The retaining walls in the spot right now, there's like, I think it's like 20, is it 24 inches right now? I think it's 24 inches, that small little wall right there. That's where we're requesting the six foot retaining wall. And it's going to, you know, there's going to be some piers that go pretty deep down. |
| 01:34:57.34 | Kristina Feller | THE FAMILY. |
| 01:34:57.60 | Unknown | THE END OF |
| 01:35:07.66 | Kara Lawrence | before. Okay. Okay. |
| 01:35:09.05 | Ryan Burke | Yeah, just to hold the soil up there. It's a really steep grade. Also on the sound wall, In certain areas, because of the grade, it's 14 feet. In a lot of the areas, it is eight feet. But the grade drops so fast that when you actually measure, that's why it can get so much higher when it steps down in certain areas. |
| 01:35:31.24 | Unknown | Okay. |
| 01:35:32.20 | Ryan Burke | So like we ordered when we ordered that wall, it's an eight foot, you can look on the order. It's an eight foot tall, 150 foot long wall. But because of the way the grade is, when you actually start measuring in certain areas, it's just going to seem way taller because the grade is so much steeper. |
| 01:35:50.46 | Kristina Feller | Understood. Okay. Thank you very much. |
| 01:35:53.17 | Ryan Burke | Yeah. |
| 01:35:53.46 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 01:35:57.46 | Kristina Feller | Okay, back up to the virtual dais here. |
| 01:36:05.69 | Kristina Feller | So regarding the retaining wall, Thank you. Did we get our questions answered? Anybody have any more questions about the retaining wall? |
| 01:36:19.25 | Richard Graef | I don't have a question about it. Mm-hmm. |
| 01:36:23.80 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 01:36:24.60 | Richard Graef | I just wanted to mention that that the procedure of bringing something that's already been done or partly done without benefit of a permit and all that. It just really complicates our problem, our process here. And while I don't have a problem with the retaining wall itself, I understand the need for it. And I understand that it's all gonna be planted. It's just that the procedure was not followed. That's disturbing. And, uh, So there seem to be several things about this project that are like that. somehow I think we could forge ahead. |
| 01:37:13.55 | Kristina Feller | The retaining wall is the six foot retaining wall is not there. |
| 01:37:18.38 | Richard Graef | understand. |
| 01:37:19.30 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, okay. |
| 01:37:20.08 | Richard Graef | But there is some retaining wall, short retaining wall, correct? |
| 01:37:25.36 | Kristina Feller | It's two feet, which |
| 01:37:27.22 | Richard Graef | Yeah. Right. |
| 01:37:28.01 | Kristina Feller | Right. Thank you. which is hardly... retaining much probably, but your point is taken. |
| 01:37:34.64 | Richard Graef | Was that wall approved? |
| 01:37:38.27 | Kristina Feller | Justin, can you help us answer that question? Was the two-foot-high retaining wall part of the original design review approval. |
| 01:37:49.95 | Justin Klapparda | That I believe it was the original designer view approval did include the construction of multiple rotating walls at various locations on the property. |
| 01:37:59.30 | Richard Graef | Okay. |
| 01:37:59.38 | Justin Klapparda | Thank you. |
| 01:37:59.43 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 01:37:59.62 | Justin Klapparda | And I believe that was one of them. |
| 01:38:01.96 | Richard Graef | Okay. I somehow thought that more had been done without permit. comment there. |
| 01:38:10.79 | Kristina Feller | Okay. That's okay. Um, We need to be absolutely sure about these things. So can I ask the commissioners regarding the, applicants request for this retaining wall, this six foot Hi. retaining wall, is there any objection to that request with the condition that the the landscape plan remains unaffected. |
| 01:38:42.21 | Vicki Nichols | have no issue. |
| 01:38:42.82 | Kristina Feller | Or be executed, I should say. |
| 01:38:42.87 | Vicki Nichols | Thank you. |
| 01:38:46.92 | Kristina Feller | the Shursaad. |
| 01:38:47.73 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I don't think it can be unaffected because it is affected. The landscape plan that's shown doesn't show the retaining wall, and I don't know how they're We just don't know. I mean, we can condition it that the landscape plan has to be submitted when they do it. And then they'll modify the landscape to work around the retaining wall, I guess. But normally we get a plan that shows where the wall is and where the plants are. |
| 01:39:18.22 | Kristina Feller | Well, I believe that the six foot wall is in replacement of where the two foot wall is now. |
| 01:39:18.34 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I think. |
| 01:39:26.88 | Kristina Feller | That's what's in front of us here. |
| 01:39:30.05 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Right, but the two foot wall doesn't appear to be on the plan. unless I'm misunderstanding the plan. |
| 01:39:35.89 | Kristina Feller | I think Justin just confirmed that it was on the plan and they're asking to move it, to increase it to six feet because you have some erosion and sloughing off of of the soils above. So I don't have a problem with approving this structural retaining wall but the condition would be that the landscaping be executed per the plan. |
| 01:40:04.22 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Can I just ask for a commissioner Pierce. I'm not seeing it on the plan. Are you seeing it on the plan? It's not on the original plan as approved. Okay, thank you. I didn't think so. |
| 01:40:12.66 | Kristina Feller | Okay, thank you. So Justin, you mentioned that this was on the plan. There were several retaining walls that were approved on the plan. So can you reconfirm that what you said that this is on the plan or, or correct that statement. |
| 01:40:28.61 | Justin Klapparda | This was back in the 2017 plan, and I was under the impression that it was one of the retaining walls that were approved. as far as the construction, but I, be wrong in that statement. I would just need a moment to check I'm not sure. if I may. alternatively, if director Whaling would be able to pitch in. I'm not sure if there is anything. that can be said. |
| 01:40:58.97 | Kristina Feller | Wait. |
| 01:40:59.24 | Justin Klapparda | but |
| 01:41:00.97 | Kristina Feller | Okay, Commissioner Saad, you had a comment? |
| 01:41:03.27 | Nastassya Saad | Yeah, well, just on page eight, I think the confusion is stemming and I can see what, Commissioner Luxembourg is saying this is our only clarification. I think it'll make it a go no go. on page eight of the staff report, we're all under the impression that this wasn't originally part of the, um, design review because it says, there's a retroactive, they're seeking retroactive approval Um, so... Thank you. the new retaining wall that's listed on page 8 is why we are all under the impression, plans aside for a second, that's just stating that it wasn't there. |
| 01:41:40.36 | Kristina Feller | Director Whalen, can you help clarify this issue? |
| 01:41:49.05 | Director Whalen | I think we need to either bring up the applicant or Justin needs the moment he needs to look at the plans. |
| 01:41:55.46 | Morgan Pierce | I mean, I might be able to offer some clarification. Chair Whelan can... uh, correct me if I'm wrong, but If a wall is a retaining wall is under a certain height, and I believe it might be four feet, then it doesn't need to go through necessarily any plan review. So from what I understand from the applicant, this was added after they had gotten approval to address some slope conditions on site that were challenging, but it didn't rise to the level of scrutiny to require any other review or approval. Hence, now that they want to make it above the limit where it would receive review and approval. That's what they're asking for. that assessment now. |
| 01:42:44.54 | Kristina Feller | I think that makes sense. |
| 01:42:45.36 | Justin Klapparda | I'd like to call on the applicant as well to double confirm if possible. |
| 01:42:51.22 | Kristina Feller | Okay, Mr Burke, do you mind rejoining us here? |
| 01:43:00.82 | Kristina Feller | We can, yeah, there we go, unmute. |
| 01:43:03.59 | Ryan Burke | Yeah, Commissioner Pierce is 100% accurate in what he just said. that that was not originally approved but it's a two foot wall. So we didn't believe that it had to go through any approval. |
| 01:43:21.20 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Okay, thank you. |
| 01:43:23.55 | Ryan Burke | And also to clarify, there's no landscaping that goes right there. It's a very steep grade. |
| 01:43:32.81 | Kristina Feller | It looks like the landscaping goes above where the wall would go. |
| 01:43:36.04 | Nastassya Saad | Correct. |
| 01:43:37.09 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 01:43:37.54 | Nastassya Saad | but not right there where the wall is. |
| 01:43:39.75 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Okay, so that would be unaffected theoretically. |
| 01:43:44.15 | Nastassya Saad | you |
| 01:43:44.24 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Okay. Okay. Well, I mean, I can offer that certainly as a member of the landslide task force, I'm all for this retaining wall. If you have sloughing off of the hill above. Is there any objection by another commissioner? |
| 01:44:05.50 | Nastassya Saad | I would just like to retract my statement then because I misspoke by saying that there was something illegally billed it oops sorry because the staff report was confusing so um that, I just want to take that back from the record, but no, I have no problem then with the retaining wall. |
| 01:44:21.33 | Kristina Feller | Okay. any other commissioner have an issue with, with, Thank you. I think it's a good question. I think it's a good question. in its location, its construction, its visual, any objection. |
| 01:44:33.60 | Kwok Yin Chong | Thank you. |
| 01:44:33.63 | Unknown | And it's, |
| 01:44:40.59 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yeah. I'm looking at photographs that I took when I was out there and I'm looking at the plan, which I have up on my screen and I think that some of those trees may or may not be adjusted. So I don't agree that it's not going to affect any landscape because there are trees shown where I think part of the wall is. So that might be able to be rectified by conditions, I think, you know, it's the cart before the horse in some respects, but |
| 01:45:11.62 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Well, I don't know. |
| 01:45:12.19 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I don't have a problem with having a retaining wall, but I do have a problem that the landscape may have to be adjusted and no one's paying attention to that. |
| 01:45:12.63 | Morgan Pierce | We'll be right back. Thank you. |
| 01:45:14.56 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Okay. |
| 01:45:14.91 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. |
| 01:45:21.09 | Jeffery Luxenberg | That's your matter. |
| 01:45:21.46 | Kristina Feller | According to the applicant, it has not been planted yet. So I don't think we're ignoring it. I think we're. we're, you know, in the interest of time trying to move this along. So we're, if there are any major objections to a structural retaining wall where you have sloughing off of a hill, I'd like to hear that from the commissioners here. I don't think we do. Okay, so that's... We're not necessarily doing these in order, but um, Are there any objections to the modification, the rear design from the sliding doors to the windows? |
| 01:46:01.08 | Nastassya Saad | I have none. Thank you. |
| 01:46:02.48 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. I guess I'll just step back one more to what Commissioner Luxenberg was addressing. So there, I mean, there is some planting that's proposed nearby, but it hasn't been planted yet. And they're just raising the elevation of this wall so that wouldn't affect any potential locations. If they needed to be adjusted for the original two foot wall, they would have been, that location would have had to have been adjusted already. And again, since it's all new planting, I don't see any reason why there would be any significant impact being moved a foot or two one way or another. it's well behind the house. Nobody's going to experience that. |
| 01:46:39.08 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Any objections to the modifications on the rear facade and the punched openings, the windows versus the sliding doors. None. Okay. Um, Now to the sound wall. Um, I think that I believe I've written down here three major, well, So we have three major issues, recommendations that could help in terms of conditioning if this is something that we want to move forward with One, I think I've heard consistently paint the sound wall. So let's talk about that for a minute. . do we all generally agree on that are there any recommendations in terms of color or Yes, Vice Chair Graf. |
| 01:47:37.86 | Richard Graef | Yeah, I think the color Thank you. If it were me, I would probably paint it I kind of a weathered gray color, which the wood had it been installed would have achieved over time. sort of a medium gray, medium warm gray, color which would just kind of disappear and then hopefully when the landscape gets in front of it, so obnoxious. |
| 01:48:08.92 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Any other thoughts about that from any other commissioner? |
| 01:48:14.95 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yeah, I'm not sure that I can make the findings for the fence at the height it is in the first place. So painting doesn't reduce the height, it does reduce how much it stands out. But the other question is, is this fence would avoid any warranties that affect the sound? putting paint on the PVC. You don't normally paint PVC like this. |
| 01:48:39.43 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:48:39.84 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 01:48:42.62 | Kristina Feller | Okay, so let's just go back to, I mean, we could talk about the height and everything in a moment. And I think the applicant actually addressed this. regarding height, Um, versus the slope and how that is being measured. And I want to ask Justin and Director Whalen comment on that. But I would agree with Vice Chair Graff in terms of masking this a little bit. And I think being consistent with what this commission originally had intended for this sound wall with weathered gray consistent with the the original cedar look. I think would be appropriate. And I think that you paint PVC all the time. I think what we have to be careful about is the actual sound insulation, the the wool inside. We don't want to affect that. Um, Any other comments from any other commissioner? Yes, commissioner. |
| 01:49:47.10 | Morgan Pierce | And should painting be the agreed upon solution? I would add the condition that samples be placed in situ for review by commissioners So, um, for approval because it's such a site-specific situation that you can't just say one gray is going to solve that problem. |
| 01:50:08.94 | Kara Lawrence | Thank you. |
| 01:50:08.96 | Kristina Feller | Okay. That's a good condition. |
| 01:50:15.52 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I'm back to the painting. How do you stop it from going into groups? I mean, they're going to... paint over the, I mean, they usually spray this, so they might roll with it, but Thank you. |
| 01:50:27.77 | Kristina Feller | Well, they don't have to spray it. |
| 01:50:28.07 | Jeffery Luxenberg | They don't have... |
| 01:50:31.91 | Kristina Feller | They don't have to speak. |
| 01:50:35.52 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Okay, I guess if you don't spray, you could be careful enough that somehow it's going to get... |
| 01:50:40.02 | Morgan Pierce | those groups. |
| 01:50:40.66 | Jeffery Luxenberg | So. |
| 01:50:41.32 | Morgan Pierce | Well, and I think what Commissioner Luxenberg is alluding to is what my concern is, Are the acoustical issues, have they been satisfactorily mitigated? While some of my fellow commissioners have suggested that this is a publicly noticed meeting, I think we can all acknowledge that everybody follows off the occurrence. Not everybody looks at every meeting scheduled. So there may be no mirrors that have been impacted by the acoustical impacts of this wall that may not be aware that this meeting was conducted subsequently. |
| 01:50:58.38 | Kwok Yin Chong | I'll even know. |
| 01:51:12.68 | Morgan Pierce | Any changes to the surface of the wall through painting, whether it be rolled or sprayed, could have some deleterious acoustical impacts. Who are we to say? I do not know the answer to |
| 01:51:24.88 | Kristina Feller | This is exactly why I'm asking for a decibel reading now. |
| 01:51:28.64 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. |
| 01:51:29.33 | Kristina Feller | We need to have that metric, and I believe that that is a reasonable condition that we place on anything that we do. |
| 01:51:40.81 | Kristina Feller | Would you be amenable to that? |
| 01:51:44.35 | Morgan Pierce | I won't satisfy my other issues regarding the public who not heard from yet this evening, who were impacted by it earlier without the documentation. I can't make that finding. So, um, |
| 01:52:00.74 | Kristina Feller | So you, you regarding the sand wall, you, you don't want to, you can't make any condition or approval or finding this evening that would, that would satisfy. Okay. Um, try to find a conditional approval. |
| 01:52:14.52 | Morgan Pierce | not without that information. |
| 01:52:16.55 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Commissioner Luxenberg? |
| 01:52:17.91 | Morgan Pierce | I don't think I could either. |
| 01:52:19.74 | Kristina Feller | Mr. Sad. |
| 01:52:21.74 | Nastassya Saad | I think I mean I think all my fellow commissioners have a great point. I would be happy to defer on that. on the side of safety for the neighborhood even though I agree. I somewhat stand by my earlier statement but I completely hear their concerns so I think having the documentation could be helpful. |
| 01:52:43.90 | Kristina Feller | Vice chair graph. |
| 01:52:45.81 | Richard Graef | Yeah, I think I'm I'm okay with having uh, with pursuing the viability of painting the wall. should probably check with the manufacturer to make sure that it's okay to do it. how to do it without affecting the the sound absorbing qualities and you know, and then looking at the color in such a way that I'm not sure. Thank you. that Commissioner Pierce suggested. I'm good with all of that. Uh, If we can do that conditionally, then maybe we could move this forward. If not, Um, I don't know how, I mean, that would, We would have to continue the the application. So, I'd like to do it conditionally if we could. |
| 01:53:44.10 | Kristina Feller | I would like to try to reach some conditional consideration here um, to move, to move this along, um, I'd like to also hear from director and I think that's If you were um, if you participated or Thank you. Mary, if you participated in the community outreach and if you are aware of what the follow up to that specifically was. |
| 01:54:19.47 | Director Whalen | I'm sorry, Chair Fella, I'm trying to understand. The follow-up to the neighborhood outreach that occurred regarding the sound wall or is the question related to after the panels were flipped |
| 01:54:24.38 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 01:54:30.48 | Director Whalen | the company. |
| 01:54:31.46 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. So there was a community outreach effort that the city and your staff were involved in with the applicant here, Mr. Burke. |
| 01:54:39.87 | Nastassya Saad | Correct. |
| 01:54:40.24 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. And At which time I understand and correct me if I'm wrong, there were ideas that were shared and Um, um, a solution came up flipping the panels and probably other things were discussed. What was the follow up? do that. Is it this hearing or was there additional follow up with the neighbors. |
| 01:55:03.98 | Director Whalen | Oh. I understand the question. Thank you. So there wasn't we did not have another Zoom meeting with the neighbors, my the next, if I recall correctly, the next correspondence I had about this project was from Mr. Burke indicating that the panels had been flipped and then the subsequent and I think that's a good question. note from Allison and Chantel about the sound difference. |
| 01:55:30.46 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 01:55:30.48 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 01:55:30.59 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yeah. |
| 01:55:31.03 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 01:55:31.17 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 01:55:31.59 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 01:55:31.62 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 01:55:31.67 | Director Whalen | Thank you. And then we chatted with Mr. Burke about, Um, because it seemed from his perspective and our perspective, because we hadn't received any other complaints about noise in the neighborhood following the flip of the panels, only the email from Allison and Chantel about the sound quality in the neighborhood. So we were talking to Mr. Burke about different options moving forward, including removing the sound wall, building a new wall, or moving forward with retroactively permitting what was in place because the neighbors seemed to not have an issue with the sound in the neighborhood anymore. Mr. Burke determined that was his option. Out of all the three that we presented, he filed the application and I indicated to him that he should do his neighborhood outreach, actually before he filed the application. So my assumption was that he did that before he filed his application. But no, we did not have another meeting with the neighbors. |
| 01:56:31.39 | Kristina Feller | forgive my interruption before. What I was going to ask is of the director Whalen, the the email that you received from from the neighbors Um, what were any other neighbors copied on that, that correspondence? |
| 01:56:50.72 | Director Whalen | I can answer that question in a second here. |
| 01:56:53.21 | Kristina Feller | Okay. That would be helpful. |
| 01:57:04.74 | Director Whalen | Yes. So that was on December 17th and. Holy... |
| 01:57:15.93 | Director Whalen | Only two of the neighbors that we had been talking to were copied on that email from Chantel. |
| 01:57:22.48 | Kristina Feller | And you did not receive any other correspondence from those particular neighbors? |
| 01:57:27.93 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 01:57:27.94 | Unknown | No. |
| 01:57:34.09 | Kristina Feller | Okay, and how many were on the original, I'm sorry, Director Whelan, how many were on the original email chain or how many were at the community outreach? |
| 01:57:43.52 | Director Whalen | Yeah, so I think there were for neighbors involved. The one neighbor that I'm not seeing on this email chain is Ms. Stern. |
| 01:57:53.44 | Kristina Feller | Who moved? |
| 01:57:57.09 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Right. Um, thank you. Thank you. |
| 01:58:08.85 | Kristina Feller | So I think we might possibly be at an impasse here specific to moving forward with the wall. I'd like to hear a little bit more Commissioner Pierce. if any information that Director Whalen out. |
| 01:58:22.40 | Morgan Pierce | I mean, it added a little bit. I mean, what I'm looking at is that without conclusive documentation indicating majority satisfaction from the neighbors that the acoustical impacts of the wall had been mitigated and that they were satisfied with the results as compared to prior to the construction of the wall. that. There was a condition prior to the wall There was a condition once the wall was constructed with the stereophonic impacts, and then there was some mitigation applied to the wall that helped soften that. I'd like to know that they are satisfied that that process has met their needs, because it seems like we're not doing the community service if we're just saying, well, let's paint the wall and make it pretty at this point. |
| 01:59:11.45 | Kristina Feller | I'm not, I don't think that's what this commission's suggesting, but I appreciate your point regarding making, you know, making sure that the neighbors are are satisfied. |
| 01:59:22.34 | Morgan Pierce | Because one of my recommendations, as you heard, Maybe we take the wall down. Lose the wall. Maybe it has greater impact on that one neighbor, but maybe it benefits the rest of the neighbor. |
| 01:59:35.48 | Kristina Feller | Well, yeah, I don't want to... I'm not an acoustical engineer. I don't want to try to. |
| 01:59:40.95 | Jeffery Luxenberg | You're mine. |
| 01:59:42.28 | Kristina Feller | Yeah. Um, pretend I would know which would be a better, better situation. Because I don't. I'm not sure. at this point. But I do know that there was a sound wall required in the original design approval. |
| 01:59:56.53 | Morgan Pierce | Oh, that wasn't required. |
| 01:59:56.90 | Kristina Feller | I'm not. That was recorded. |
| 01:59:59.51 | Morgan Pierce | that was requested. |
| 02:00:01.64 | Kristina Feller | I stand corrected. It was part of the approval of the designer. |
| 02:00:06.11 | Morgan Pierce | Correct. |
| 02:00:06.69 | Kristina Feller | So yes, you're correct, you are correct. Okay. Um, at this point, um, I'm not sure we might be at an impasse. And I'd also like to quickly There's one hand that's been raised for some time. We're not here. Public comment on this particular matter has been closed. We had it open before If you could lower your hand and re-raise it, if there's some, if there's, if you are a neighbor directly affected. by Mr. Burke's application. and requests this evening that would be helpful. I'm not seeing that hand re-raised so... So that is not a neighbor. Okay. So Um, Here's what I would suggest, and you guys let me know what you feel about this. Two of the three items I think we agree upon. So we can make the findings on two of the three. So at this point, um, And maybe we should ask Director Whalen or Mary Wagner here, can we make a motion on two of the three items and then separately discuss the third? for a separate motion. |
| 02:01:35.03 | Kristina Feller | Director Whelan. |
| 02:01:35.70 | Director Whalen | Thank you. Sorry about the kid here, bedtime. |
| 02:01:38.00 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Uh. Thank you. |
| 02:01:39.19 | Director Whalen | I'm not going to be able to do it. The question is, can you make a motion on the sound wall and the separately from the windows and the retaining wall? |
| 02:01:48.59 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yes. |
| 02:01:56.68 | Kristina Feller | You're on, yeah. I'm getting surprised |
| 02:01:59.68 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 02:01:59.70 | Kristina Feller | Bye. Thank you. |
| 02:01:59.97 | Director Whalen | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 02:02:00.57 | Jeffery Luxenberg | All right. |
| 02:02:00.64 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 02:02:01.06 | Director Whalen | Um, |
| 02:02:01.76 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:02:01.98 | Director Whalen | Thank you. that I guess it would depend on what the motion is if we're separating out different approvals. |
| 02:02:09.59 | Kristina Feller | I don't know. So I think at this point, Director Whelan, this commission is ready to make a motion regarding the structural retaining wall. and the facade modifications at the rear. And those two items there's there's majority support for and we can make those findings and therefore the question is, can we make a motion on those two items and separate out the sound wall. for a separate motion. |
| 02:02:40.21 | Director Whalen | Yeah, and then, yeah, you can remove a component from the approval, sorry. Um, if you would like to keep a portion of the project and I'm so sorry. That's all right. |
| 02:02:53.01 | Jeffery Luxenberg | That's right. Thank you. |
| 02:02:53.80 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 02:02:54.00 | Jeffery Luxenberg | THE FAMILY. You're both in there, don't worry. |
| 02:02:56.31 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 02:02:56.33 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 02:02:56.68 | Director Whalen | I don't hear Mary though. |
| 02:02:58.93 | Mary Wagner | I was talking without my mic unmuted, my apologies. of Chair Feller, may I jump in here as well? And I concur with your community development director, you could carve out a feature of the, project and take a separate action if you would like. And I'm looking at your resolution right now and it does seemed to be structured, that it would be easy to kind of take take and change something if you choose to proceed that way. |
| 02:03:29.35 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Thank you both very much. So you might want to stay close because I think we might try to attempt that here. So please stay close. um, So. I'm going to, I'll go ahead and make a motion. I'd like to make a motion to approve the request for the structural retaining wall with the condition that that all landscaping as originally, um, Thank you. presented and approved with the design review application originally is Executed. And I would like to add to that the of the modification of requested for the rear facade window alterations. Thank you. Do I have a second for that moment? |
| 02:04:24.35 | Morgan Pierce | I have a quick question regarding that, Chair Feller. It made mention of the landscape, I guess, as drawn. And I'd like to make part of the condition for whatever we end up doing with the sound wall to, if it does get approved at that larger scale, to propose the replacement of some of those plant species with some dollar species to mitigate that greater height. And so I don't necessarily want to approve the entire landscape as drawn should we want to revisit that section. |
| 02:04:53.81 | Kristina Feller | That's yes, I am. not including the sound wall issues related to that in this motion. |
| 02:04:58.88 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. |
| 02:05:00.48 | Kristina Feller | I'm only because I agree with your point completely. I'm only making that motion relating to the structural retaining wall in that area. and then the approval of the modifications of the window or the window alterations at the rear facade. So those two items I'm making a motion to approve. |
| 02:05:25.81 | Morgan Pierce | I would second that motion. |
| 02:05:28.31 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:05:29.34 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. |
| 02:05:29.40 | Mary Wagner | Chair Feller, may I apologize? You asked me to stay close. I'm right here. May I ask a quick clarification question? And we might need Justin |
| 02:05:34.35 | Kwok Yin Chong | THE FAMILY. |
| 02:05:34.43 | Maria | I love it. |
| 02:05:34.75 | Kwok Yin Chong | Bye. |
| 02:05:38.28 | Mary Wagner | to weigh in here too. I want to make sure we have either the conditions in the resolution now that address the concerns that you raised or that were able to modify them to your satisfaction. So I don't know if Justin or Lily are able to weigh in on that issue. |
| 02:05:56.82 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. see if either are available. Justin, are you? |
| 02:06:02.48 | Justin Klapparda | I am. So I have the conditions of approval ready, if I understand you correctly, and I can edit them. like alive, if I'm understand, am I understanding you correctly? |
| 02:06:19.34 | Mary Wagner | I just want to make sure we understand what modifications would need to be made to the conditions. And so if there's any, clarification that we would ask for from the Commission now would be the time the time to do that. So I just wanted to make sure staff was clear on on the Commission's direction. |
| 02:06:36.01 | Justin Klapparda | Yeah. Thank you. So in regards, to the rear yard retaining wall, just to confirm that I am on the same page. The condition is that all landscaping as approved is executed. There are no objections to the rear windows, but was that the, did I capture that? Was there one additional note? Um, |
| 02:06:59.36 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 02:06:59.38 | Kristina Feller | that you had all |
| 02:06:59.62 | Justin Klapparda | that you had all deliberately. |
| 02:07:02.08 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, I think that it's the landscaping within the direct vicinity of that retaining wall that that original planting that had landscape plan that had been approved and executed. |
| 02:07:16.90 | Justin Klapparda | Okay. |
| 02:07:17.47 | Kristina Feller | we're specifically not including anything related to the sound wall in this one motion. |
| 02:07:22.06 | Justin Klapparda | Right. understood. |
| 02:07:28.14 | Kristina Feller | So are you... Are you clear on that part? |
| 02:07:33.62 | Justin Klapparda | I am. |
| 02:07:34.43 | Kristina Feller | Okay, great, thank you. In that case, Director Whalen, could you kindly take the role? |
| 02:07:43.63 | Director Whalen | Shinarasad. Yeah. |
| 02:07:45.06 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 02:07:45.20 | Director Whalen | Thank you. Commissioner Luxembourg. |
| 02:07:48.57 | Jeffery Luxenberg | See you. |
| 02:07:49.40 | Director Whalen | Commissioner Pierce. |
| 02:07:50.48 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yes. |
| 02:07:51.24 | Director Whalen | I share a graph. |
| 02:07:52.70 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yes. |
| 02:07:53.47 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 02:07:53.48 | Kristina Feller | I'm not sure if you're a fellow. Yes. |
| 02:07:55.12 | Director Whelan | Thank you. |
| 02:07:55.14 | Director Whalen | that carries five zeros. |
| 02:07:56.76 | Kristina Feller | Right. Thank you. Now let's go back to the sound wall. Um, |
| 02:08:06.86 | Kristina Feller | I'm not sure that I'm in a position where I could get on board with recommending taking the entire sound wall down. Um, I do. whatever we do. whether it's this solution as it's erected now or some other one, I definitely would require a decibel reading now. And should there be any further alteration to whatever is put in place, a second reading at that time. |
| 02:08:40.66 | Kristina Feller | to make sure we're okay. in terms of that. I think that we, have to look at the landscape plan and see if there's any modifications or additions, frankly, that we would need to help mask, not just the visual, but mainly the sound. in that area. I'm not sure. I am aware that a lot of those sycamore trees were recently cut that I think are on CalTransland or other people's property, I'll just put it that way. And I'm sure that's not helping the situation. Um, Commissioner Pierce, what are you? Give me some idea what you're thinking in terms of how to handle. this particular sound wall. |
| 02:09:33.21 | Morgan Pierce | Well, I guess I'm looking for some sort of documentation of the conversations and other outreach that have been addressed between the initial complaints And now, And then any real time, since the since the since the mitigating, I guess, application has been added to the walls. has that what is the overall impact of that to the neighbors that A, complained originally, and if anybody hadn't been, that is directly impacted, maybe wasn't part of that original conversation, |
| 02:09:59.50 | Kwok Yin Chong | the neighbors |
| 02:10:07.99 | Morgan Pierce | I just feel like we need to make sure that all of our T's are crossed and I's dotted relative to the neighbors. who are directly impacted by the construction of this wall, before we put it to bed and say yes, we can paint it and add some plant material and have a nice day. |
| 02:10:23.65 | Kristina Feller | Commissioner Saad, what are your thoughts? |
| 02:10:26.69 | Nastassya Saad | I don't disagree with erring on the side of caution and for the sake of the neighborhood, but I think I do. now have some potential concerns around. I still think painting it and I think Commissioner Pierce made a great point. And I think that was a condition he might have suggested for the color. to come back before the commission. I do agree with something grayish of sorts. I think it would be, it'd be a good practice to have us review that Um, I just am, if this, if this wall has been around since September, with a back and forth for many months. I'm hoping everyone had a chance to to speak and state their concern. So, um, But I would. I would agree with potential documentation. So I'm wondering, I don't know if we can even make a condition that would show approval based on some type of proof. all those communications that weren't included in the packet as Commissioner Pierce, I do think it would be worth our reading But in an effort to move this forward, if we could approve pending that material. I'm just not sure, Commissioner Pierce, what outside of the documentation and emails that Director Whalen had called out what more we could be looking for or you're not suggesting a Another Neighborhood Outreach, are you? I wasn't, but I guess I, I, |
| 02:12:12.02 | Morgan Pierce | I can't. |
| 02:12:13.61 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 02:12:13.63 | Morgan Pierce | say that I'm not sure. with any conviction without knowing the extent of the outreach that has already been conducted. I mean, it may be two emails that are inconclusive or it may be letters and emails and meeting notes from some session that completely would mitigate all of our concerns. |
| 02:12:32.78 | Nastassya Saad | right? |
| 02:12:33.02 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. |
| 02:12:33.03 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 02:12:33.05 | Morgan Pierce | I don't have any of them on a record. |
| 02:12:33.08 | Nastassya Saad | I don't have anything on a record. I agree with that. I agree with that. |
| 02:12:41.64 | Nastassya Saad | Can we just have what, Director Whalen was able to share with us. Can that be forwarded over for review? Or is that even possible to do a condition based on future information? I'm not sure. doesn't even sound potentially correct. |
| 02:12:55.31 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. No. No, I mean, I think, you know, Director Whalen, I see you're back up here and let me sort of ask a question related to Commissioner Saad here to you and that is, There were four entities involved in the original community outreach. Is that correct with the applicant? Yes. Okay. one moved away. one emailed you and copied the other two neighbors that were part of that same outreach. |
| 02:13:32.92 | Kristina Feller | Is that correct? |
| 02:13:33.38 | Vicki Nichols | Thank you. |
| 02:13:33.58 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:13:35.47 | Director Whalen | I don't have first-hand knowledge of Mrs. Stearns moving away out of Sausalito, but I understand that she has, so I don't know when she moved. um, But yes, the other two neighbors were copied on that email to me in December, but not me. |
| 02:13:53.24 | Kristina Feller | that we have to do with the the email. So between September and now we're talking like almost seven months. And after December 17th, have you gotten any complaints? |
| 02:14:06.65 | Director Whalen | No, I haven't received anything from the neighbors since that email. I just did a search too. |
| 02:14:13.68 | Kristina Feller | And you heard from all of them before. |
| 02:14:17.40 | Director Whalen | I believe I only heard directly from Chantel and Allison and Mrs. Stern and then the other neighbors were copied on the communications and they were at the neighbor meeting. Yeah. One of them didn't attend the neighbor meeting. I think there was one of them that did and the other couldn't make it if I recall correctly. |
| 02:14:35.06 | Morgan Pierce | And then, |
| 02:14:38.84 | Morgan Pierce | Okay. Meeting minutes from the neighborhood meetings? |
| 02:14:42.40 | Director Whalen | No. So we had a Zoom meeting. |
| 02:14:47.71 | Morgan Pierce | Is that recorded somewhere? |
| 02:14:49.53 | Director Whalen | We did not record it. |
| 02:14:50.41 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. |
| 02:14:56.89 | Kristina Feller | Well, I mean, I... about that. This is a tough one because we're here to also be advocates for our community and our neighbors. But I feel that this isn't something that's been rushed either. I mean, the talking... seven months, we're talking what actually January, February, you know, for four months from to the day of the last correspondence. I don't feel as though we're, we're not, um, giving the public and that neighborhood an opportunity to to weigh in here on this particular on this particular matter. |
| 02:15:42.00 | Morgan Pierce | Here is my broader concern. This obviously caused some issues. And again, independent of this project, I think it sets a precedent for other projects. And I want to make sure that we have the right tools in place to make sure that we're protecting the neighbors who could potentially be impacted by such construction in the future. And it seems like we just didn't know what to do going into this one. And, you know, there's been some inconsistency in how we've addressed it, whether it's in the staff or the commission or, or even the applicants. And so I just want to make sure that we are figuring out through this process, the best way to address it moving forward. And if that requires us to do a little backtracking to find out whatever communications ensued during this process I think it's incumbent upon us as the commission to make sure that we're doing everything that we can. Um, My fellow commissioners may feel differently, but that's how I feel. And again, it's not in the interest of holding up this applicant. It's the interest of making sure that we're doing the right things moving forward for our community. |
| 02:16:54.04 | Kristina Feller | Absolutely. And I think, you know, I agree with that. And I think, again, one of the things that lessons learned, you know, in hindsight in 2020 is, is whenever we're looking at sound wall issues to begin with, there's obviously an issue with sound. in this case by the highway. 101 and a decibel reading should be taken before you know as a condition of the approval. So we have a metric going forward so we know what it is now is it more is it less is it the same I can't tell you I do not know. |
| 02:17:17.34 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yep. |
| 02:17:27.11 | Kristina Feller | Um, But, um, I also don't think it's fair to unfairly penalize the applicant who I want to believe is has done everything they can to be responsive to the neighborhood and to the neighbors as well. This is sitting on a highway. Um, There's, you know, location, location, location. It's sitting on a highway. um, So, you know, I'm willing to entertain a motion here, but in the interest of time of, you know, We should be clear what it is we're looking for if we don't have it. and what it will take, you know, in moving forward one way or the other. So I'm willing to entertain emotion by anybody or further discussion if there's if there's something new that we haven't uncovered here. |
| 02:18:24.50 | Morgan Pierce | Well, I guess I would just add that, you know, obviously, outreach is a clear requirement of every application that comes before this body. And I feel like we don't really have any conclusive evidence to support that in this submittal. And without that, again, I don't feel comfortable making judgments |
| 02:18:43.19 | Kristina Feller | I agree with you in what you're saying. And I understand what you're saying. I mean, we get letters from the community up until after we've already started hearings on, on almost every other application. |
| 02:18:52.75 | Kwok Yin Chong | Thank you. |
| 02:18:52.82 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 02:18:53.02 | Kwok Yin Chong | Thank you. |
| 02:18:57.65 | Kristina Feller | And we haven't here and I don't think it's our lack of outreach. It's the same outreach we do for everybody else. So, You know, we haven't, you know, no one has responded to the outreach here, which includes the public notice. Um, you know, it's the same threshold we have for everybody else and every other applicant. Um, is that noticing period. And we have received nothing. I mean, |
| 02:19:29.69 | Morgan Pierce | And again, I'm wondering why. Is it some pandemic thing or did something get cross the line because we are doing it to address seemingly insignificant things and this is far from insignificant. thing. And so that's why I'm calling you to question. I'm surprised that there hasn't been any additional |
| 02:19:46.01 | Kristina Feller | I'm surprised. |
| 02:19:49.89 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. |
| 02:19:50.62 | Kristina Feller | So other than proof of outreach, Would you be able to make the findings if we conditioned this? |
| 02:19:59.73 | Morgan Pierce | condition of the sun |
| 02:20:01.20 | Kristina Feller | on issues regarding the visual impacts, Sound impacts that could be assisted with landscaping. any kind of decibel reading. Um, assuming that you had all that, the evidence. I mean, I'm just, I'm trying to figure out a path. |
| 02:20:19.90 | Morgan Pierce | And does that include all the communications for the between the neighbors leading up to this? Sure. |
| 02:20:27.62 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, because I'd like to |
| 02:20:27.68 | Morgan Pierce | Yeah, because I'd like to see that. I feel like I feel blind about that. |
| 02:20:31.24 | Kristina Feller | Okay. I'm just, I'm trying to move this forward in a way that it's definitive with what we're saying and what we need. |
| 02:20:34.29 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 02:20:34.33 | Morgan Pierce | Sure. |
| 02:20:34.58 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 02:20:34.63 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. |
| 02:20:35.29 | Jeffery Luxenberg | And it is. |
| 02:20:38.92 | Kristina Feller | one way or the other. any impact or conditions or you want to reject it for whatever reason. I just want to try to move it forward in a way that we can be clear as a commission what that direction might be. And- |
| 02:20:59.57 | Morgan Pierce | And I totally appreciate the intent and I'm happy to, to, uh, accommodate that. I guess I would ask the community development director or the city attorney what the process for that is. And I'm just thinking hypothetically here, let's say we get some commentary from these past meetings and all of a sudden it's like, oh my gosh, well, there's this huge issue. We can't approve that wall. How does that then work? |
| 02:21:30.91 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Can I comment on this? |
| 02:21:32.75 | Kristina Feller | Well, hold on, let's have the city attorney respond here. THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 02:21:38.18 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 02:21:38.23 | Fatanesh Kampa | Thank you. |
| 02:21:38.28 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 02:21:38.79 | Fatanesh Kampa | Thank you. |
| 02:21:38.94 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 02:21:39.31 | Mary Wagner | Go ahead, Lily. |
| 02:21:41.08 | Director Whalen | I'm Pierce. So is the question, if I understand the question correctly, is it If the planning commission can't make the findings to allow the retroactive approval of the wall as built, what are the options for the applicant? Is that the question? |
| 02:21:54.80 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. |
| 02:21:54.83 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 02:21:54.85 | Morgan Pierce | Well, I'm sorry, go ahead, Chair Feller. |
| 02:21:57.55 | Kristina Feller | No. |
| 02:21:58.01 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 02:21:58.21 | Morgan Pierce | I feel my old chair. It's going to be back. I'm going to jump right in. |
| 02:21:58.24 | Director Whalen | I feel... |
| 02:22:02.77 | Trisha Stevens | Thank you. |
| 02:22:02.78 | Morgan Pierce | But I think the question is, you know, I think Chair Feller presenting a presenting a great suggestion of conditioning your part of the approval on our our positive assessment of the communication and neighborhood outreach as part of our review of this project. And I presented a hypothetical that if there's some, something that we find out in that review that all of a sudden turns us in a different direction away from approval, How does that then Proceed. |
| 02:22:36.79 | Mary Wagner | So if, may I? Cheer filler. |
| 02:22:39.60 | Fatanesh Kampa | Thank you. Yes, please. |
| 02:22:40.77 | Mary Wagner | So if I'm hearing this correctly, and please correct me if I'm wrong. You're asking staff gather all the past communication between applicant staff and neighbors |
| 02:22:49.14 | Fatanesh Kampa | patients. |
| 02:22:49.58 | Christy (City Staff) | between |
| 02:22:52.26 | Mary Wagner | on the issue that arose when the, the wall was installed. You've heard from one of those neighbors, arguably the most affected neighbor, tonight and I believe at least based on my you know, experience, this is a fairly tight |
| 02:23:05.17 | Jeffery Luxenberg | of |
| 02:23:08.06 | Mary Wagner | group. And they seem to have communicated with one another pretty consistently for what it's worth. But if I'm understanding the question and the direction that you're going, if staff were to provide, if you were to approve the project tonight, |
| 02:23:15.68 | Kwok Yin Chong | Thank you. |
| 02:23:22.60 | Mary Wagner | Staff then provide you with the communication. And a commissioner had an issue. |
| 02:23:27.72 | Mary Wagner | With it. I mean, we would have to there'd have to be a mechanism to reopen the hearing. And that's a very difficult to do based on past communications that aren't in front of you. this evening. I think it's important to also understand, and it's my understanding, then Lily correct me if I'm wrong here, that notice was mailed out to all the affected neighbors, including the neighbors who participated in the public outreach and the site was posted in accordance with your regulations. I'm struggling with what we would do to kind of retroactively reopen this if a commissioner had concerns about that, those communications, those past communications. |
| 02:24:13.26 | Morgan Pierce | And again, here's why I'm asking that question is because Is this just a... you know, an exercise in futility for us to review these documents as a condition if there's nothing we can do if something presents itself that suggests we should change our opinion. |
| 02:24:32.70 | Mary Wagner | Well, may I suggest looking at this a different way? If I may. So I think if what I heard from chair Feller about a condition to take a decibel level reading at a certain location, you know, today, tomorrow, whenever you choose what point in time. And then if there are modifications or changes that occur down the road, you'd have something to weigh that against. And you'd have something for neighbors who are concerned to be able to say, there was a condition that required a decibel level reading, And now we want you to do it again because of X, Y, Z concern. I think that's a positive way to move forward versus retroactively trying to go back. and to recreate what that past communication was and concerns neighbors may have had that they no longer have. |
| 02:25:23.63 | Morgan Pierce | Well, again, without the documentation, we really can't assess that. |
| 02:25:27.02 | Mary Wagner | If the commission really wants that documentation, you need to postpone and continue this hearing. And I'm not hearing the commission wants to do that. that would be the way to go not to retroactively come back to you with a commissioner that had a concern. I'm sorry. Thank you very much. Sure. |
| 02:25:44.42 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Commissioner Luxenberg. |
| 02:25:47.20 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I mean I first I agree 100% commissioner Pierce is so way out but I want to go back and I understand what An applicant came in, they proposed an eight foot wood fence. And somehow now we have a 14.6 foot PVC fence that everyone thinks it needs to be painted so it can be hidden and shielded with landscaping. that the sound goes over the top of hits the wall, hits the fence, and that's what caused the reverberation. We had a neighbor that said there was reverberation and it's not any better than when it started. And they live next to a freeway and they're aware of that, but this fence isn't doing anything. We have a bunch of other neighbors that we haven't seen the documentation of. And so I'm not convinced this fence should be there in the first place. The applicant asked for it. We didn't require this fence. And now they want to make it bigger and get a variance to do it. And so, and also we want to put paint on it. And I want to know from the manufacturer whether that's going to change the sound impacts on it. So I'm like, you know, I don't see how we can make the findings of this. I mean, I may be in the minority, but I just, you know, I'm not. And then the applicant was given an option, either come in with a take down defense, come in with changing or rotating defense or flipping it around or whatever they did. And I QUESTION THAT COMMISSIONER PEARCE ASKED, GIVE US THAT DOCUMENTATION AND GO FROM THERE. I JUST DON'T SEE THAT, YOU KNOW, HIDING THE FENCE WITH PAINT WHEN MAYBE REMOVING IT BECAUSE IT DO because it doesn't do its job in the first place is the better option. And the applicants said they wanted to keep it up, but they want a variance to do that. And I don't know that we should be approving that if it's not doing its job as a sound variance. I'm sorry. I just, I can't see it. |
| 02:28:02.47 | Kristina Feller | Well, I think there are a couple things with that. I think the first is the apple can explain what that 14 foot measurement is. I'm not sure. because this is pre-manufactured PVC and it's staggered in panels. It's not like a straight eight feet. |
| 02:28:19.58 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I understand. I fully understand how it's being measured and what the issue is. |
| 02:28:21.19 | Kristina Feller | Amen. allow me to finish. |
| 02:28:26.59 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I'm sorry, I apologize. |
| 02:28:26.66 | Kristina Feller | I'm sorry. That's the first thing. The second thing I'm a little bit worried about here, and I'm kind of trying to one foot in one side, one foot in the other, is I also want to be very careful that this commission is not holding this applicant to a different standard than we do every other applicant as it relates to comments in public notice. and things of that kind. I think that's a very, very dangerous area to play in, and I just want to be very careful about that. because public notice did go out. This is a public notice hearing. There have been email correspondences. There hasn't been any other complaints since December 17th and it's March 17th. Um, apparently these neighbors all talk to each other. I think it's a good question. I haven't noticed that or witnessed that myself, but if they're all on email chains, it seems as though they are. So I just want to be very careful that we're not holding this applicant to a different standard than every other applicant. |
| 02:29:32.40 | Morgan Pierce | curious about that from the perspective of We're here because of a change to offense that has resulted in complaints. And so that's not typically the nature of public outreach for other projects that come before this body. So I don't know if that generates additional scrutiny Um, Because it would be something, should there be a complaint, people would be calling the building department and the building inspector to say, why the hell is this going on? They might even be calling the police. Um, And again, we're not at least, right at this moment, we're not asking them to do anything beyond what we expect of other applicants we are calling to the to the attention that they're being treated with more leniency than the other albums because we haven't gotten any documentation On the Community Out. And I find that absurd. |
| 02:30:27.46 | Kristina Feller | Well, let's remember there are three items on this for this applicant tonight. I know two we've already approved, but those are noticed equally. as a sound wall and we got no comments on those either i just just I'm not trying to argue your point, Commissioner Pierce. I just want to be absolutely clear. |
| 02:30:44.41 | Kwok Yin Chong | one of |
| 02:30:46.45 | Kristina Feller | with those listening in from home or on this Zoom today as well. Mr. Saad. |
| 02:30:54.18 | Nastassya Saad | may I make a suggestion And City Attorney can correct me if I can't do this or Chair Feller that we move this. but to a special meeting given the constraints that the applicant has expressed Um, if they are able to agree to what you suggested Chair Feller with the decibel reading and then we can receive that communication for review because I think Commissioner Pierce and I were asking the same question to get that commentary yet. review retroactively, which clearly doesn't make sense. So if we can review that prior, they can do the reading. And then in the meantime to, Commissioner Luxembourg's point potentially they can also do the due diligence and get in writing from the manufacturer about what can be done for the glare and the look. from all what would be a way to paint it without damaging any of its sound quality. and then hold a special meeting that could be for this item. we can hopefully resolve it between next week and the week after. just in the interest that they're in a bit of a bind as well. |
| 02:32:12.66 | Kristina Feller | Director Whalen, could we ask you to comment on that recommendation from Commissioner Saad? |
| 02:32:22.72 | Director Whalen | On scheduling a special meeting. for the planning commissioner? Yeah. |
| 02:32:26.23 | Nastassya Saad | Yeah, for... next week or the week after at the most, like within two weeks so that they can do their due diligence and we can receive communication and just hold a meeting for them. |
| 02:32:37.10 | Director Whalen | If the planning commission is available for a special meeting, be available as well. for a special meeting. |
| 02:32:44.91 | Kristina Feller | What's the noticing requirement on a special meeting? How much time do you need? |
| 02:32:50.56 | Director Whalen | So the agenda requirement is 24 hours in advance of the meeting. This hearing was noticed this evening. And I believe that you can continue this item to A special meeting and we would post the agenda. And Mary can jump in and correct me if I'm wrong. |
| 02:33:16.40 | Mary Wagner | No, you're correct. |
| 02:33:18.00 | Kristina Feller | Can I just share a graph? |
| 02:33:20.45 | Richard Graef | Yes, I'm listening to all this and coming to pretty much the same conclusion that we do need to continue this part of the application. because we do need to get confirmation about treating the the fence. So... There seems to be enough interest in getting some documentation of the public outreach I don't think our I think I've I'm fine with. what we have. at this point. So there are some technical issues about the fence. to have a a good, um, clear landscape plan over what's being proposed to be in front of that fence to also mitigate it's scale. Um, Uh, and to also help with sound attenuation. if we can If we could just get it to the next scheduled meeting, that would be, you know, I would prefer that, I think. We need to go to a special meeting. You know, I could, be available. Clearly, we're not going to Uh, give it a conditional approval this evening. |
| 02:34:52.54 | Kristina Feller | Okay, so can I entertain a motion then from the commission? |
| 02:34:57.70 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Can I ask one question? Would the meeting be, would notices be mailed to the abutter? |
| 02:35:08.03 | Kristina Feller | To, I'm sorry, who? |
| 02:35:09.31 | Jeffery Luxenberg | So if we have a special meeting, if we continue this to a special meeting, it would be posted and it would be put online. But can the Community Development Department mail notices of the special meeting to the above? |
| 02:35:27.79 | Kristina Feller | Director Whalen, I believe you use that anyway. |
| 02:35:30.22 | Director Whalen | Yeah. So we tip so we mail notice to properties within 300 feet for this type of a public hearing so all owners and residents received notice of this hearing for all the public hearing items on this agenda this evening. So if we continue this item to a special meeting, we would identify the date of the special meeting tonight and continue it. or the commission would continue it to that. evening. And we typically wouldn't then send out mail notice of the project because you continue to add the notice public meeting to another. Public meetings. Um, but we could with your direction, spend specific mail notice to specific addresses of the special meeting. |
| 02:36:23.90 | Mary Wagner | Okay. Chair Filler, I apologize. I would also suggest that, you know, an email notification to the extent that we have emails if Lily, I apologize if you said that part and I missed it. But, you know, that's that's a much quicker, easier, faster manner of notification for a lot of people. |
| 02:36:41.36 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Thank you. So, Would anyone like to make a motion? |
| 02:36:49.48 | Morgan Pierce | One request, Chair Feller, do we wish to inquire with the the applicant whether or not they prefer a next scheduled meeting versus a special meeting or? if they had any inclination one way or another. |
| 02:37:02.96 | Kristina Feller | But I'm just looking. Yeah, fair point. I'm just looking At our. calendar and I believe the next hearing is on the 7 |
| 02:37:15.32 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 02:37:15.33 | Unknown | Mm-hmm. |
| 02:37:15.65 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 02:37:15.84 | Kristina Feller | of April. |
| 02:37:20.45 | Director Whalen | So, |
| 02:37:20.58 | Unknown | that... Thank you. |
| 02:37:20.95 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:37:20.97 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:37:23.20 | Director Whalen | Sorry. That is correct Chair Feller. And all of our April meetings are oversubscribed at this point. |
| 02:37:29.37 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Um, All right, so we could do it the 24th or the 31st, should the applicant Um, be agreeable and I just want to make sure that the commission has no known conflict |
| 02:37:48.29 | Morgan Pierce | for me. |
| 02:37:49.69 | Nastassya Saad | I, I only I do have a conflict on the 24th. I am out of town. |
| 02:37:50.28 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. |
| 02:37:50.32 | Kristina Feller | I'm sorry. |
| 02:37:50.36 | Morgan Pierce | Bye. |
| 02:37:50.43 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:37:50.45 | Morgan Pierce | All right. |
| 02:37:50.48 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:37:54.23 | Nastassya Saad | Um, And I thought about that when I suggested the special meeting, but if it can be the week after I am available every single day. |
| 02:38:02.18 | Kristina Feller | Okay, is there any objection to that from anybody? |
| 02:38:06.95 | Richard Graef | Does it have to be on a Wednesday? |
| 02:38:10.40 | Kristina Feller | We're going to keep it on a Wednesday. Yeah. Um, Mr. Burke, could I ask you to, um, come back up here to our virtual dais and if Zoom team, you could unmute Mr. Burr and allow him to, there we go. |
| 02:38:29.14 | Nastassya Saad | My video doesn't work. |
| 02:38:30.86 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Mr. Burke, as you've probably been listening in, your items number two and three this evening have been approved by this commission. And the first item, which is specific to the sound wall, has not been and we're recommending a continuation of this hearing and we can do that to a date certain which we are recommending march 31st it would be um a 6 30 start as as it was this evening and it would be a special meeting So it wouldn't include all the other items. that our regular scheduled meetings would. Is that agreeable to you? of |
| 02:39:14.42 | Ryan Burke | I guess I would just need a little more information because I just don't know what I would be preparing for that meeting. Is it just a continuation of the conversation and Hopefully it doesn't get continued again, or is there specific, like conditions on that. And another thing I just want to say, and, um, and I don't know I just I'm extremely confused right now because I was under the impression that the public comment period was the actual outreach on top of the additional stuff that we've done. And I guess my question would be to all the commissioners, is this, is this a standard procedure where the 10 day comment period, Um... is over and there's no comments and then we're saying well that's really weird there's no comments let's reach out again to make sure there's no comments. I'm just extremely confused by it. I'm willing to do whatever we need to do. First of all, just so everyone knows, the only challenge is in this scenario, time is the ultimate currency. I don't have time. I don't have time to keep continuing things. So I guess my biggest question right now would be, based on the wall that was originally approved is that still approved because i don't have time really to do anything else could i tear down the wall tomorrow and build the approved wall and everything would be okay is Is that an option for me? |
| 02:40:39.07 | Kristina Feller | Yes. |
| 02:40:40.09 | Ryan Burke | That is an option for me. |
| 02:40:41.93 | Kristina Feller | Yes, that was approved. |
| 02:40:44.47 | Ryan Burke | Okay, so there's no other paperwork. There's no other procedures. There's no other anything I would have to do because I know the sound wall material. I have a letter right here that that was approved in 2018 to change. So I just want to make sure there's no I have a letter. |
| 02:41:00.63 | Kristina Feller | I'm sorry. |
| 02:41:03.33 | Ryan Burke | I have a letter here notice of decision 2018 from the city of Sausalito notice of decision regarding administrative approval of changes to an approved project that was for the materials on the sound wall that I have this letter that it was approved. So that was something I heard earlier too, where People are saying, oh, we're trying to go from an eight foot wall to a 14 wall and from wood to. pvc but we got approved for pvc in 2018 i wanted to be clear about that so again i just need to know Based on where we're at exactly right now in that letter, I could still just tear down the wall tomorrow and build the approved wall. |
| 02:41:43.07 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. It was already approved. |
| 02:41:45.86 | Ryan Burke | Okay. |
| 02:41:46.21 | Ryan Burke | Thank you. |
| 02:41:47.44 | Ryan Burke | Okay. |
| 02:41:47.97 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I think he's saying he could build a PVC wall. I'm not sure that's correct, but that's the lead, the city attorney to weigh in. |
| 02:41:47.98 | Ryan Burke | I see. |
| 02:41:48.20 | Ryan Burke | Thank you. |
| 02:41:48.24 | Ryan Burke | Thank you. |
| 02:41:54.02 | Ryan Burke | I'm sorry. Thank you. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying the approved, um, they proved wood wall that was originally approved the challenge is does this 2018 notice of decision have anything to do with that original approval I guess that's my question. |
| 02:42:11.14 | Kristina Feller | Sure. And Mary, could you perhaps weigh in on that since that was an administrative approval done through the planning department and not through the commission? |
| 02:42:21.90 | Director Whalen | So if I can just request some clarification here. question from Mr. Burke. What's the process to build the wood wall as originally approved by the Planning Commission? Is that the question, Mr. Burke? If I can. That's the question. |
| 02:42:39.03 | Ryan Burke | Cause I just don't have a lot of time. This thing's going to be gone fast. So I'm just trying to figure out what's my fastest solution and weighing all my options. |
| 02:42:39.08 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 02:42:46.77 | Director Whalen | So, Mr. Burke, as I communicated to you, I think in the December timeframe, the three different options that you had, you pursued one of those options, which got us here tonight. Another of the options was to remove the wall you installed and build with the planning commission approved. And I can, I don't have that memorized as to what the process was, but I did outline that process for you. I can pull that up if that's an interest to the planning commission. |
| 02:43:12.41 | Ryan Burke | That would be amazing. If you could pull, I just, because the reason I was confused is because there was individual commissioners that were saying, that they didn't, they didn't think that we were approved on the PVC. And then that, that was part of this approval. So that's why I was confused because I have that letter that says we were. So I just want to make sure that whatever, because I know it's not easy to get in touch with anyone after this meeting's over. Trust me, I've been through it. So I just want to know. by the end of this meeting, if that's my solution, potentially if I can weigh it against whatever else I have, if I can do that and start that tomorrow, |
| 02:43:49.33 | Kristina Feller | No. |
| 02:43:49.40 | Ryan Burke | I need to be able to know that decision before this is over. That would be super helpful for my family. |
| 02:43:49.43 | Kristina Feller | I know. |
| 02:43:53.74 | Kristina Feller | Mr. Burke, you deserve absolute clarity on what this commission is instructing. So, I'm sorry. We want you to be very clear about it. If you choose to tear down what you've built already on the sound wall, and build what this commission approved before, you can rescind your application request for a variant. |
| 02:44:16.77 | Ryan Burke | Thank you. |
| 02:44:16.79 | Ryan Burke | of the |
| 02:44:16.99 | Ryan Burke | Thank you. |
| 02:44:17.04 | Ryan Burke | Thank you. |
| 02:44:18.02 | Ryan Burke | Thank you. |
| 02:44:18.03 | Ryan Burke | Okay. And, Timeline-wise, if we had a special meeting on the 31st, because there's no conditions or anything is there a good chance that that may get extended again to another meeting because we might figure out what we need at that point. And then I have to kind of get that stuff and then move to the next meeting. |
| 02:44:40.46 | Kristina Feller | i'm not necessarily in the in the business to make that kind of a prediction but i think what this commission was, was was some evidence that your neighbors are satisfied with the current Well, or not, we want to understand what the situation is in that regard. we wanted to to give you some time to go back to the manufacturer of your wall. to determine if one paints the wall, would it have any negative impact to the acoustical character of it. in terms of absorption. Um, And those were the major issues. |
| 02:45:26.73 | Ryan Burke | Okay, so those would be things that if we decided to go to the 31st, those would be things that in between now and then I would, I would figure out and then present to. |
| 02:45:36.82 | Kristina Feller | That's correct. |
| 02:45:38.00 | Ryan Burke | Okay. |
| 02:45:38.44 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:45:39.39 | Ryan Burke | Okay. Um, |
| 02:45:40.98 | Ryan Burke | Thank you. I just don't know what to do, to be honest with you guys. I just don't know exactly what to do, unfortunately. |
| 02:45:49.06 | Kristina Feller | Well, I see that our director Whelan is up here again, and we can certainly identify a, special hearing and meeting for a date certain, which would be March 31st, And between now and... maybe next week if you decide to change course and erect the wall. that was approved by this commission, then you can, that meeting can always be canceled. |
| 02:46:20.93 | Ryan Burke | Okay, okay. |
| 02:46:22.08 | Ryan Burke | Yeah, because it's the big picture of everything. It's it's super confusing because even before the wall was up like like months before the wall is up, the city was getting emails from the neighbors saying, why isn't the wall up? I thought there was going to be a wall up. And then as soon as the wall went up, you know, so. |
| 02:46:38.43 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:46:38.45 | Ryan Burke | Yes. |
| 02:46:38.52 | Kristina Feller | Yes. So, but as of time, I mean, these are your options. |
| 02:46:40.00 | Unknown | But... |
| 02:46:40.06 | Ryan Burke | Yeah. |
| 02:46:40.24 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:46:44.24 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:46:44.26 | Jeffery Luxenberg | OK. |
| 02:46:44.73 | Kristina Feller | And at this point, we wanted to bring you back up regarding the date of March 31st and your your desire to continue this item. |
| 02:46:57.52 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 02:46:57.57 | Kristina Feller | to that date to a special meeting. |
| 02:46:57.59 | Nastassya Saad | Yeah. |
| 02:47:00.52 | Ryan Burke | Okay, yeah, let's go ahead and do that. But I just want to make sure I heard you correctly. If for some reason tomorrow or the next day I decide I just want to go the other position, that's okay as well. |
| 02:47:12.22 | Kristina Feller | You can work with the community development director Whalen here to cancel that special meeting request. |
| 02:47:21.26 | Unknown | Okay. All right. That sounds good. Thank you. Thank you, everyone, for listening to us. We appreciate it. |
| 02:47:28.62 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Thank you very much, Mr Burke, and thank you for your patience this evening. And congratulations on your other two items that have been approved. So thank you, that is a win. Work to be done there as well. |
| 02:47:36.72 | Ryan Burke | Thank you, that is a win. |
| 02:47:39.35 | Kristina Feller | Okay, so can I bring it back up to the dais here and get a a motion for a date certain of March 31st special hearing. Thank you. |
| 02:47:51.39 | Nastassya Saad | I'll make the motion. for a And you know what, I don't have the agenda, so for the item, number but. for a date certain for a special meeting for um, item. |
| 02:48:07.96 | Morgan Pierce | I can fill it in if you like. |
| 02:48:08.67 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. Yes, can you please help me out? |
| 02:48:10.12 | Morgan Pierce | Help me out. Design review, variance, application, modification 2021-0039, modification of DR-VA16-314 at 2 Crescento. |
| 02:48:24.04 | Nastassya Saad | Just give him the, I'll second him. Bye. |
| 02:48:27.08 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner Pearson. |
| 02:48:27.82 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Commissioner Pierce. Item number one only. |
| 02:48:31.11 | Morgan Pierce | Yes. Item number one only. Yes. Thank you. |
| 02:48:34.33 | Kristina Feller | Okay, do I have a second? |
| 02:48:37.62 | Morgan Pierce | like it's |
| 02:48:37.98 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 02:48:37.99 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 02:48:38.62 | Nastassya Saad | Okay. Thank you. |
| 02:48:39.70 | Unknown | Teamwork. |
| 02:48:39.97 | Nastassya Saad | Teamwork. Thank you. |
| 02:48:40.85 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:48:41.12 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 02:48:41.17 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:48:41.49 | Nastassya Saad | You take your hand. |
| 02:48:41.69 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Can I amend that motion to request that the Community Development Department mail any abutter that was mailed originally on notice of this special meeting and email anybody they have on record as well, just so that somebody that didn't know this was going to get continued that because they didn't come the night that that information goes up. |
| 02:49:10.55 | Mary Wagner | So, Madam Chair, procedurally, the maker of the motion and the seconder of the motion would need to accept that friendly amendment. |
| 02:49:19.15 | Morgan Pierce | who made the motion, did I or didn't? You did, you did. Well, I'll accept that amendment. |
| 02:49:20.91 | Mary Wagner | You did. You did. |
| 02:49:22.21 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. I'm not sure. |
| 02:49:25.41 | Morgan Pierce | I'll accept that too. |
| 02:49:28.45 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Ellen. We take. |
| 02:49:31.03 | Director Whalen | Thank you. Can I ask just us two points of clarification on the motion? Sorry to belabor it. The mailed notice, was that to 300 feet around the property site or just those properties that have been in communication about issues in the neighborhood. |
| 02:49:45.26 | Kristina Feller | about issues in the neighborhood. That should be 300 feet. And the request was to email anybody else interested party that participated with the community outreach before. |
| 02:49:56.23 | Director Whalen | Understood. Thank you. And then the the specific Thank you. items that you're directing that the applicant come back with. for the commission if that could be enunciated. One more time just to make sure everyone's clear. |
| 02:50:09.41 | Morgan Pierce | Since I made the motion, I'll list them. It was a potential impact on paint color, painting or other coatings. on the acoustical properties of the wall. It was, adjusted plantings for taller plants to address the higher the tall right of the wall. On the landscape plan. Was there one more? |
| 02:50:35.11 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Deathsville. |
| 02:50:36.20 | Morgan Pierce | Oh, the decibel readings. of the wall as currently constructed. |
| 02:50:42.18 | Director Whalen | And for that item, were you asking for the applicant to to choose a location one location or We could get some more details on what you were hoping the applicant to provide prior to the March 31st meeting. |
| 02:50:56.96 | Kristina Feller | Where was the decibel reading taken before? |
| 02:51:00.32 | Director Whalen | I think there were a number of locations. The applicant will have more information on that, though. |
| 02:51:05.09 | Kristina Feller | I would assume, take them from the same location. |
| 02:51:09.08 | Director Whalen | I agree. |
| 02:51:11.12 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:51:11.14 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. And then also the outreach from the prior engagements. we'd like to have submitted to us. |
| 02:51:22.64 | Director Whalen | And is that, thank you, Commissioner Pierce, is that from the applicant's perspective? And then I'm assuming you would also like staffs? |
| 02:51:30.27 | Nastassya Saad | Yes, please. |
| 02:51:31.32 | Director Whalen | you all the emails that came in regarding this project with for |
| 02:51:34.59 | Nastassya Saad | Yes, please. |
| 02:51:35.47 | Director Whalen | Excellent. And then one more question, I'm sorry, is the March 31st, two weeks from tonight, The agenda will be posted on The 26th. for that special meeting. So the applicant, we won't Thank you. staff won't have time to do, you know, an analysis really of the application materials provided. So what we'll be doing essentially is routing those materials to you as a commission. And wanted to make sure that there was understanding of that due to the timeframe here. |
| 02:52:11.51 | Jeffery Luxenberg | We're going to have a great day. Can I also make a suggestion that You contact the applicant and find out whether he wants this meeting to go ahead before you mail the notices to So in other words, if he's going to withdraw, because that was one of his options, and you give them the time to do that. Not part of the motion, but just so practically people aren't informed of a meeting that doesn't happen. |
| 02:52:40.57 | Kristina Feller | Okay, Director Whalen, can we take the roll call on this, please? |
| 02:52:46.70 | Director Whalen | Commissioner Lux. |
| 02:52:47.96 | Director Whelan | you |
| 02:52:48.15 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 02:52:49.01 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yo. |
| 02:52:49.90 | Director Whelan | Mishar Saad. Yeah. Michelle Pierce. Yeah. |
| 02:52:53.38 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yes. |
| 02:52:53.74 | Director Whelan | Thank you. I've heard that. |
| 02:52:54.04 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 02:52:55.39 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 02:52:55.41 | Jeffery Luxenberg | God. |
| 02:52:56.10 | Director Whelan | and chair filler. Yes. Carries 5-0. |
| 02:53:00.99 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Director Whelan. You wanna read the next item on our agenda? |
| 02:53:10.02 | Director Whalen | Thank you. Our next public hearing item tonight is 4B, which is a request for a conditional use permit and a signed permit. It's 21 Bridgeway. We have senior planner, Christy Usher, who will be giving the staff presentation, the Thanks. |
| 02:53:26.24 | Christy (City Staff) | Thank you, Vidya Neeswarfeller and Planning Commissioners. The applications before you tonight are a conditional use permit to allow a yoga studio to operate at 1621 Bridgeway and a sign permit to allow associated business signage. |
| 02:53:46.22 | Christy (City Staff) | The project site is a ground floor commercial tenant space of approximately 1100 square feet. It's located in a three story mixed use building at 1621 bridgeway. The existing building is rounded by Bridgeway to the east, Napa Street to the north, and Caledonia Street to the west. A surface parking lot is also adjacent to the mixed use building that contains 14 parking spaces. The surrounding neighborhood contains a mixture of commercial buildings and commercial and residential uses. which is consistent with the general plan mixed residential and commercial land use designation. in the commercial residential zoning district. |
| 02:54:38.60 | Christy (City Staff) | Granting the requested conditional use permit will allow the establishment of a yoga studio at 1621 Bridgeway to offer yoga classes. The conditions of approval outlined in the staff report regarding the business operations were those that were provided and requested by the business owner. However, since the report was published, the business owner has requested the following revisions to their business operations. The yoga studio is proposed to operate seven days a week from 6 a.m. to 9 p.m. rather than 7 a.m. to 8 p.m. with classes of up to 30 students, not 15 students. Although according to the business owner, most classes will have 15 students or less. The conditions of approval, the modifications to those allow up to eight classes a day from the five weekday and four weekend class frequency that was originally proposed. And lastly, the proposed revisions to the conditions of approval also clarify that a maximum of three employees are permitted on site only during class times. None of these requested revisions to the conditions of approval are inconsistent with city codes. And additionally, staff has added a condition of approval that requires the Planning Commission to review the CUP in 18 months after commencement of operations. to allow the business to get established and for the presence of any potential negative impacts on the surrounding businesses and residents to be known. |
| 02:56:30.65 | Christy (City Staff) | A sign permit is also requested to allow signage for the proposed business. Two wall mounted signs are proposed that will read Cloud Break Yoga. One sign will be located on the building along the bridgeway frontage, and one sign will be located on the building along the Napa Street frontage. In compliance with the sign code, each sign is proposed to be 10 square feet in area. with 12 inch tall ladders. white, individually cut acrylic letters are proposed. Each of the proposed wall signs is to be externally illuminated by one low wattage down facing light fixture. so that the sign is, itself is illuminated. The light fixture is, location is indicated by this yellow dot here. |
| 02:57:27.16 | Christy (City Staff) | The proposed project is consistent with the zoning ordinance, land use requirements, development standards, and sign code requirements in that The proposed yoga studio is a fitness and recreation use that is allowed in commercial residential zone districts with a conditional use permit. The proposed project meets the parking requirements and that the CR Zone District The parking ratio is one space per 250 square feet. which is also the requirement for a fitness recreation use. Therefore, the code does not require additional parking. The proposed building wall signage meets the requirements of the sign code, including but not limited to a total allowed sign area. The proposed project implements several objectives and policies of the new general plan for the Caledonia Street area, for example, The proposed yoga studio land use is consistent with this general plan policy L you 2.10 and that it will be a resident serving commercial use. The city received 16 public comments in support of the yoga studio, which have been forwarded to the Commission in the staff report and as late mail. And lastly, staff recommends the planning commission approve the So, we have attached draft resolution with condition of approval revisions which make the findings of approval for a conditional use permit to allow the establishment of a yoga studio and a sign permit to establish wall sign signage for the yoga studio at 1621 Bridgeway. That concludes the staff presentation. I am happy to answer any questions you may have, The business owner, Khoury Ibrahim, is also here to make a presentation to you tonight. Thank you. |
| 02:59:33.88 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Christy. Thank you so much for for the presentation and all the work you've done to to get this applicant and application prepared for this evening. Thank you so much. I'm sorry. Let me ask the commissioners if they have any specific questions for staff. Commissioner Luxenberg, did you have any questions for |
| 02:59:54.78 | Jeffery Luxenberg | No, I'm all set with the presentation. It was an excellent presentation. Thank you. |
| 02:59:58.38 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. |
| 02:59:59.34 | Kristina Feller | Commissioner Pierce? |
| 03:00:00.99 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 03:00:01.01 | Morgan Pierce | Yes, thank you, Chair Feller. And thank you, Christy. I agree with the Commissioner Luxenberg, lovely presentation. I really only had one question and I guess it has to do with parking and I understand the vehicles meet the requirements, regardless of whether it's 15 to 30. I was wondering, does the city have any bike parking nearby? Because I imagine some of the patrons may be bicyclists. |
| 03:00:23.49 | Christy (City Staff) | I have a great question, Commissioner Pierce. I don't know offhand. defer that to the business owner. I know she's quite familiar with that area. |
| 03:00:36.19 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. It looks like community development. Lily was popping up there a second, and then she disappeared. |
| 03:00:43.74 | Director Whalen | I'm sorry, I was trying to think there, Commissioner Pierce about nearby bike parking, and trying to recall the improvements to dumpy and bike parking. that may have been put in with that project. Well, I won't. |
| 03:01:03.51 | Morgan Pierce | won't make this a part of any sort of condition but i would request that the city if there isn't any nearby we might they might consider adding so. |
| 03:01:14.57 | Kristina Feller | Great idea. |
| 03:01:16.91 | Morgan Pierce | That's the only question I had. |
| 03:01:18.47 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 03:01:18.48 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. |
| 03:01:18.52 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 03:01:18.53 | Morgan Pierce | development. |
| 03:01:19.39 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Good question. Commissioner Saad. |
| 03:01:23.78 | Nastassya Saad | I only had one and I think I was just looking for it in the In the staff report I think it's on page 8. It says that a condition parking requirements are met which I agree with but the project condition of approval requires the applicant to encourage students to walk bike and take public transportation. It's more of a general question. I don't have an issue with it at all. I'm just wondering how that's enforced. How do you put a condition of approval for that? in. |
| 03:02:03.39 | Christy (City Staff) | Thank you. |
| 03:02:03.40 | Nastassya Saad | The language, let's see. I am looking on page eight, I think, of the staff report. |
| 03:02:16.79 | Nastassya Saad | I completely agree just for the record with the concept. I was just wondering if we're going to approve it with a condition how It's enforced. |
| 03:02:25.56 | Christy (City Staff) | Well, we do have the condition that it come back to in 18 months, so we could have them report back on what their efforts were. And if they were satisfactory, you know, that they'd be encouraged to continue those efforts or enhance them sort of depending on what the results are and what their efforts were. Um, And. I do know the applicant has some feedback in terms of, um, who she anticipates utilizing the studio in the area and has a sense who, how many of her potential clients would be close by and, um, and likely to walk and how successful she could be in implementing this. I think she could shed some light on that as well. She's part of this condition, so. And I'm sure she's given it some thought. |
| 03:03:27.00 | Nastassya Saad | Okay, great, I'll wait for her, thank you. Thank you. That's all. Thank you, Chair Feller. |
| 03:03:32.12 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Commissioner Saad. Vice Chair Graff, do you have any questions for staff? |
| 03:03:36.79 | Richard Graef | Not at those times, no. |
| 03:03:38.88 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 03:03:39.05 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 03:03:40.32 | Kristina Feller | Um, Christy, I did have a question for you because the. Hours of operation changed at least they were sent to us has changed today. And I'm just wondering if those are normal hours of operation for any other businesses in the area. And certainly being sensitive to residents that live above some of these commercial spaces and obviously it's zoned for that. I'm not sure. and yoga doesn't, tend to be a very loud sport or activity. But, but there is coming and going is this do, do the neighbors know this? Do, do folks in the area understand that the hours of operation would start at 6am? |
| 03:04:24.73 | Christy (City Staff) | They were published at 7 a.m. I did not get any... comments or concerns regarding the business. All of those letters were really in support from a variety of residents and businesses in that area. Um, I think with COVID, overlaying some restrictions and then with the new business getting established and then with the review in 18 months. I think it's a good opportunity to test the waters, I don't suspect the applicant is going to go right to the option for the 6 a.m. classes. but just seeking some flexibility for growth for her overall business plan. And I think the 6 a.m. class would not be every day of the week. And we could have her clarify that as well. |
| 03:05:26.43 | Kristina Feller | Okay, appreciate that. I'll ask the applicant to get prepared here for their presentation. |
| 03:05:28.01 | Christy (City Staff) | you |
| 03:05:28.28 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:05:35.34 | Kristina Feller | and asked the Zoom team to help them unmute and such. And while the applicant is doing that, I just wanna make sure there are no other questions of staff from the commission. Commissioner Pierce. |
| 03:05:45.29 | Morgan Pierce | I have one and forgive me if you ask this in your line of questions. Was there outreach directly to the residents above regarding those that request for an earlier opening. time. |
| 03:05:59.98 | Christy (City Staff) | No. |
| 03:06:01.00 | Morgan Pierce | Okay. Thank you. |
| 03:06:02.29 | Kristina Feller | Well, and to Commissioner Pierce's point, it's also later. I think it goes till 9 PM. So it's also it's earlier and later. |
| 03:06:06.57 | Morgan Pierce | Right. |
| 03:06:09.10 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Okay. Um, all right, let's, um, let's ask the applicant if they're ready for, to present. if the Zoom team can assist them. and you'll welcome this evening. And we're looking to- |
| 03:06:27.70 | Maria | Christy, what's her name? Oh, you found her, okay, good. |
| 03:06:32.61 | Kristina Feller | There she is. |
| 03:06:33.61 | Maria | Bye. |
| 03:06:34.47 | Kristina Feller | Good evening. Welcome. And you'll have 15 minutes for your presentation and you're welcome to use that split that time if you if you'd like to use it all now or a rebuttal later if need be. So welcome. |
| 03:06:48.69 | Khoury Ibrahim | Thank you. I'll keep it. I'll keep it brief. And I'll do a little bit of a intro what I was going to say and then I'll address the specific questions that just came up. So yeah, so my name is Curie. I'm a homeowner in Old Town Sausalito. And, um, I'm really passionate about Marin and I'm really passionate about running a meaningful business here. Um, a bit about me as a person, I'm really organized, I'm reliable. And it's my ambition. to make this business thrive for years to come. Ultimately my goal and my mission for Cloud Break Yoga is to provide a means for happier, healthier, and more connected lives to Sausalito residents. So especially coming out of COVID and especially in a town that can often be focused on tourism, A resident serving business like this that isn't a restaurant That isn't just like an outdoor park. It's a different way to get together. And I think Sausalito could really use that. And I know the previous studios in Sausalito near and dear to many residents' lives. and since they're gone now, I think there really is a place for a yoga studio. Yeah. to come back in. part of the reason we moved forward so enthusiastically with this location, even with the contingent Contingency. of needing to get a conditional use permit is the walkability. Yeah. you know, parking was brought up here a couple of times. being in this location is one of the motivations to start the business in general. So I wanted to start a yoga studio for a while. And then in seeing this place, I thought, wow, this is absolutely perfect. I expect like the vast majority of people to walk here. Mill Valley in San Francisco have tons of yoga studios. I don't expect people to be driving over from those towns. come to this yoga studio, I expect this to be for Saucelito residents. and with the density of residential of residents in that like specific part of town. That too will be, I imagine that's who our customer base will be. And I don't see why they wouldn't walk. um, So yeah, and aside from that, I guess I can weave in the bike parking here too, since that fits in. I don't think that there's bike parking right there, but I would love if you guys put bike parking in. Um, I think people would love to bike, especially from the other side of town. So that would be great. Um, I'll address some of the modifications too. Um, So when working with Christie on initial descriptions of the business, I didn't really realize that numbers that I threw out for the description of the business would become conditions of approval. I didn't. understand that that would that would materialize to that degree. and So I'll go through each of them, but, um, I just preface it with the fact that these are really normal parameters for a yoga studio. If anything, they're even like conservative parameters for a yoga studio. And I think it would be It would be unwise for us to attempt to operate a yoga studio without. most of these parameters. So the 15 to 30 people situation. is pretty essential. Most of our classes won't even be 15. I imagine a lot of them will be five, eight, 10 people, but when we can hit 30, it's so important. for the economics of the business that we can actually take all those 30 people. I expect that that'll happen occasionally. Um, during our 5.30 class on the weekdays, but I I mostly see it happening. during like a 10 a.m. or an 11 a.m. on Saturday or Sunday. So it would be really rare. We'd be thrilled when it did happen and we just really need that opportunity so that we can take it when it comes. With COVID right now, our class sizes would be four people. And at 25%, when that goes up, it would be 10 people. So we're looking at really low numbers for people the foreseeable future with COVID and as a new business. I think the impact to the neighborhood would be gradual and then possibly not you know, really noticeable. at all. In terms of the class, The number of classes per day, we had in the conditions of approval four to five, and I'd like to be more liberal at this, input eight. in case we need it. I don't think we'll ever have eight. But four is certainly too restrictive. That would allow for two morning and two evening glasses. and provide like an unused space during the midday. A lot of moms and a lot of other people in the community, I imagine, I prefer to go to yoga. during the middle of the day when kids are at school, et cetera. cater to the most audiences we can and again to be viable as a business we need the opportunity to offer a normal amount of classes, which would be maximum eight. And, in terms of the operating hours and proposing adding an hour to the morning and adding an hour to the evening. We're not gonna start with a 6 a.m. class and we're not gonna start with an 8 p.m. class. but we want the options to 6am can be really popular. And we don't want to miss out on that if we don't have to. And then 8 PM could be popular for really quiet things like a sound meditation or, um, a breathwork class. in terms of, like neighborhood disturbance during those hours. Um, I don't think it's going to be an issue and that'll lead me to Um, to one more thing that I believe is on the conditions of approval, which is The fact that we'll be staggering classes by 30 minutes. So we're doing that. Most yoga studios stagger classes by 15 minutes. And we are... cutting into our revenue potential and staggering them by 30 minutes. so that no one will be congregating outside. We're taking, we're taking the time out of where we could be running a class. and cushioning the coming and going. So that the existing class can filter out. with, And, leave plenty of time for the next class to filter in where they wouldn't need to spend time like waiting on the sidewalk before the doors open. In other words, the doors will be open So, comfortably before class. that I expect no congregation outside disturbing neighbors. Um, So... Aside from, yeah. There's all those specific conditions of approval. I think I've addressed most I adjust the bike parking, the the 6 a.m. and the 9 p.m. And I'll talk about the upstairs neighbors. That was another concern. So before signing the lease, Before signing lease, I talked to every single tenant in the building. There's six units. I'm not sure. And I told them that I intended to open a yoga studio and each one was excited. Each one wished me well. They were supportive of the business. I should have included that with my materials, but I didn't think we need that specific. And I also did a sound check with them with music to make sure that they couldn't hear any of the music. So the previous tenant in the space that I'm leasing drop the ceiling and so there's this big space barrier in between my ceiling and where their floor starts so No one could hear the music and everyone was supportive of the yoga studio in the building. THE FAMILY. that support in addition to all the support that Christie received via email. Not to mention all of the support I've gotten outside of that that hasn't necessarily come to your door. I THINK. I think this will be extremely positive for the community. I think the community wants this. I think the community needs this. And I am personally really excited to bring a resident serving business to Sausalito, especially one in this manner. Yeah, and I'm really happy to work with you guys to do it within the right parameters, but I hope this works for you all. |
| 03:15:56.47 | Kristina Feller | Great. Thank you so much, Miss Ibrahim. Let's stop the clock. Okay, good. So you have additional time left if you need that in the future. Um, Thank you very much for walking us through your business and explaining a lot of this and answering some of the questions that we had for staff that's most helpful. At this point, I'd like to ask the commissioners if you have any questions, of our applicants. this evening. Commissioner San. I actually don't have any questions, but thank you, Chair Fowler. Okay. Commissioner Luxenberg? |
| 03:16:32.43 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I don't have any questions at the time. I think it's good for the area and I wish you best of luck. So. Mm-hmm. |
| 03:16:37.48 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. Commissioner Pierce? Yes, thank you, Chair Feller. And thank you, Ms. Ibrahim, for the thoughtful presentation. I just had a couple of questions. What are the busiest hours typically for a studio of this scale? |
| 03:16:50.05 | Khoury Ibrahim | This is a small scale studio. Um, it's, I predict that the busiest hours will be after moms drop kids off at school. So that'll probably be a nine 30 or 10 AM class. |
| 03:16:51.64 | Morgan Pierce | I'm going to go to the next video. |
| 03:17:00.56 | Khoury Ibrahim | MR. maybe 10 or 15 people in that. And then I would say the most popular will probably be the first evening class at 5 or 5.30 p.m. And I'd be thrilled if there were 15 people in there. I would be ecstatic if there were 30. And then the weekends, Um, weekends we'll probably do a 9am and then 11am and those will be popular too same same concept of I'd be happy if there was 15 and I'd be stoked if there was 30. |
| 03:17:29.25 | Morgan Pierce | Great. Thank you. My second question is, and it's regarding reaching out to the upstairs tenants. Thank you so much for being so thorough on that. I did have a question. Were they aware of the operating hours that you're proposing when you met with them at 6 a.m. started and 9 p.m. closed? |
| 03:17:44.17 | Khoury Ibrahim | We did not talk specifically about that. I was not withholding that from them. That was just before I even signed a lease, not specific at all. |
| 03:17:45.26 | Morgan Pierce | MR. |
| 03:17:53.06 | Khoury Ibrahim | A lot of them were familiar with yoga studios. A lot of them do yoga. that's it's super standard to have a 6am class. So I don't think it's, um, to anybody, but to answer your question now. |
| 03:18:06.65 | Morgan Pierce | Got it. Thank you. And then a final question. The light fixtures you've shown that shows them to illuminate the, the signage. believe the ones that have chosen are indoor fixtures, not wet location fixtures. You may want to double check that, but I did want to make sure that you realize they're just going to be a tiny point of light Right over that, I wasn't sure if you would maybe select a different fissure that maybe spread out the light along more of the sign letters. |
| 03:18:29.83 | Khoury Ibrahim | Yeah. Thank you for noticing that. I could probably use more of high sunlight fixtures and, um, Yeah, maybe maybe we want to revise that. It's not. as Thank you. It's not the illumination of the sign is not so important to me that I would want to hold up the conditional use permit. That's far more important to me to move forward. |
| 03:18:47.74 | Natasha Worsham | over. |
| 03:18:52.97 | Khoury Ibrahim | Um, but noted and thank you for that detail. |
| 03:18:57.34 | Morgan Pierce | Those are all the questions I have, Chair Fallon. |
| 03:18:59.38 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Commissioner Pierce. Great questions. Vice Chair Brown. |
| 03:19:03.48 | Richard Graef | No question. |
| 03:19:05.15 | Kristina Feller | Great. I think that Commissioner Pierce already asked the questions I was I was interested in regarding the timing so so other than that I don't have any further questions for you at this time. So thank you. very, very much. Don't go too far away. We're going to open this up. |
| 03:19:20.81 | Unknown | Bye. |
| 03:19:24.19 | Kristina Feller | to public comment and then bring it back up here to the dais. So if we have any other questions after public comment, certainly come back to you, but thank you so much. Okay. Let's go ahead and open this up to public comment. And if I could ask Director Whalen, to once again advise the public how to raise their hand in the Zoom application or on their phone. |
| 03:19:50.66 | Director Whelan | Thank you. |
| 03:19:50.68 | Director Whalen | Thank you. So video or audio pilot Comment participation now is limited to three minutes per speaker. If you'd like to comment, please raise your hand in the Zoom application. and we'll call on you when it's your time. Time to speak. If you're calling in on a phone, I think we have a couple phone calls here. You press star nine to raise your hand on the phone. I'm seeing some. Hands go up here. And please be patient while we unmute you and ask you to share your video. |
| 03:20:19.40 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Director Whelan. So I see four hands up. I'm just going to go in order on my screen as it is tiled here. Oh, there we go. So again, as Director Whalen said, when we unmute you, if you could please announce yourself and state your name for the record. You will each have three minutes each for public comment. The first commenter I see is Welcome this evening. |
| 03:20:48.22 | Bob Woodrum | All right. Can you hear me? |
| 03:20:50.49 | Kristina Feller | Yes, if you could just state your name for the record. Thank you. |
| 03:20:53.76 | Bob Woodrum | Sure. My name is Bob Woodrum. I own Sausalito picture framing on Caledonia Street. I've been a resident for 15 years. Former trustee of the library, current trustee of the Sausalito Foundation, on and on. I'm chiming in just to give support for this business. I think she's got a solid plan and I think it will benefit the neighborhood a lot I'm not sure. Oh, there we go. Um, as I own a business on Sausalito for 15 years now. I have been watching, not watching, that's terrible, seeing people walking to yoga classes with their yoga mats. I don't think that the parking issue is an issue at all. um, The parking at that end of the street is very rarely an issue. It is right now because of the construction project, but that'll be over in a few months. And they have a large parking lot. |
| 03:21:52.45 | Kwok Yin Chong | and, you know, the |
| 03:21:52.60 | Unknown | THE END OF |
| 03:21:52.64 | Kwok Yin Chong | Thanks. |
| 03:21:54.64 | Bob Woodrum | There's also a bike shop next to where they're opening the studio. So I would imagine that bike parking probably should be dealt with down there as well. um, So I just wanted to say we're in support of this. That's about it. |
| 03:22:14.54 | Kristina Feller | Appreciate that so much. Thank you, sir. Thank you for commenting. Our next public speaker is Sean Naughton. |
| 03:22:20.68 | Bob Woodrum | Shock. |
| 03:22:21.19 | Kwok Yin Chong | Thank you. |
| 03:22:22.67 | Kristina Feller | If you could unmute. and we could set the comment on. Good evening. |
| 03:22:28.21 | Sean Naughton | Thank you. Good evening, thank you. I'm showing up to speak in support of this project. I'm a long time yoga teacher in Sausalito. So I know that the community there is really in need of this. They're super excited about it. A lot of them live very locally and love to walk and bike. so it's going to be a really great pitch. Yeah, we're excited about it. I also wanted to just sort of address the nature of classes and impact. Those 6 a.m. and later classes, usually we teach yoga in the flow of somebody's living. So the morning classes are sedate, pretty slow wake up classes. And even with people's enthusiasm to get up at six o'clock, they're usually very low attendance. So I don't think you need to worry about that. But met with Koury, she's fantastic. The space looks beautiful. I think it's a really good deal. |
| 03:23:26.43 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Thank you so much, Mr. Notting. Thank you for speaking on her behalf. Great. The next speaker I see is Fatina Scampa. If you could unmute and welcome. Welcome this evening. You have three minutes for public comment. |
| 03:23:49.73 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. There we go. We can hear you. |
| 03:23:55.13 | Fatanesh Kampa | Okay. |
| 03:24:00.23 | Kristina Feller | You can go ahead. |
| 03:24:00.97 | Fatanesh Kampa | Hi, my name is Fatanesh Kampa and I've been taking yoga off and on. but For last few years, I haven't, and especially since this Corona started. and i must tell you that my whole body aches so i am so excited for this uh magnificent, wonderful project of yoga studio. And I cannot wait to take some classes. with so much trauma and mental health issues. I think this is a beautiful, wonderful audition. to such a little. and all the cities around Sosolito. So I hope you are allow this yoga studio to open and approve this project. Thank you so much. |
| 03:25:04.03 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Ms. Scampa. Thank you so much for speaking this evening. The next speaker I see is Katie. Welcome this evening. If you can unmute and announce yourself, you have three minutes. |
| 03:25:18.14 | Katie Hoke | Hi, everyone. My name is Katie Hoke and I am a Sausalito resident and a yoga teacher and I'm here also in support of club break. Um... As you guys have heard, all the studios in Sausalito have no longer exist. And so there's a community of yogis here who are really missing their practice, and this will fill a huge need. And like Fatina said, we're coming out of this year of just so much stress and trauma. And yoga supports our wellness so importantly. And so I think the community will really benefit from having a studio here. In addition to that, I am a teacher and there is also a thriving community of wellness professionals and teachers here in Sausalito. It would be great to have a place to work. right here in town. So I am in full support, met with Corey, and I think it's gonna be really wonderful. Thank you. |
| 03:26:08.46 | Kristina Feller | Thank you so much for being here this evening. Thank you. The next speaker I have is Alex Stroud. Welcome this evening. If you could announce yourself and unmute, you have three minutes for public comment. |
| 03:26:22.62 | Natasha Worsham | Hi, everyone. My name is Natasha Worsham, and I'm speaking on behalf of myself and my boyfriend, Alex Stroud. We are residents in Old Town, Sausalito, and we currently walk through the neighborhood. We're constantly going to Equator Coffee from Thank you. Old Town and we stand in support of this new yoga studio. In regards to the class capacity, I think it's really important as a community and one of the benefits of having 10 to 20 30 students in a class is that you really do feel that effect of community. And that is a really important facet to coming to a yoga studio to do yoga. And we are really excited to see the outcome. Thank you. |
| 03:27:17.70 | Kristina Feller | Thank you very much for commenting this evening. I do not see any other hands raised. Let me just double check here. I do not see anybody else. Zoom team, do you want to confirm for me? Oh, hold on. We have a... Terry Lang. Terry, welcome. You have three minutes for public comment if you could unmute and announce yourself. |
| 03:27:48.77 | Terry Lang | Hi. |
| 03:27:59.14 | Terry Lang | So I'm just... Can you turn that off? |
| 03:28:02.11 | Maria | Yeah. |
| 03:28:04.44 | Terry Lang | I'm just tuning in to say that I support this yoga studio. I've got a business over on Caledonia Street, about two and a half blocks away. And, um, I've been there for a few years now. And I think that having a yoga studio in Sausalito again, would be really beneficial to the community. and to Caledonia Street and to the economy in general. And I think that it's a real need in the community And I did a little informal sort of Q and A amongst my friends who live on Napa street and who live on B street and right around there. And they're all very excited. I've got three mommy friends who are thrilled to be able to walk down the hill. |
| 03:28:46.58 | Kristina Feller | Yeah. |
| 03:28:47.37 | Terry Lang | and go to a yoga studio. And so that said, I really hope that we get to welcome Cory and Cloud Break Yoga. That's it. Thank you. |
| 03:29:01.65 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Ms. Lyon. Thank you very much for commenting. I see one more hand raised with the name boss. If you could unmute, announce yourself. You have three minutes for public comment. |
| 03:29:21.09 | Kristina Feller | Sir, you're on mute. Can you unmute? |
| 03:29:29.78 | Kristina Feller | There we go. There we go. |
| 03:29:34.10 | Kristina Feller | We can't, I'm sorry, sir, we can't hear you. |
| 03:29:45.29 | Kristina Feller | Zoom team, can you help this gentleman unmute? |
| 03:29:53.25 | Director Whalen | We're asking him to unmute and it seems, it looks like there might be an issue with his audio and his computer. What I might suggest, sir. If you have a... that you can dial a number, you can call into this meeting and make your public comment on the phone, I can give that number right now, if you would like. It's also listed on the agenda. |
| 03:30:16.96 | Tom Hoover | Let's see, wait a minute. |
| 03:30:18.14 | Director Whalen | Thank you. There we go. |
| 03:30:18.51 | Tom Hoover | I've got it unmuted and I've got it off the other thing. Is it coming out? |
| 03:30:21.59 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, we do. Yes. |
| 03:30:23.38 | Tom Hoover | That's good because I want to speak later. All I wanted to say is one thing, so I have to say. |
| 03:30:23.92 | Kristina Feller | Yeah. MR. Can you announce your name, sir? |
| 03:30:30.16 | Tom Hoover | I will give you a second. I'm getting there. My name is Tom Hoover. And I wanted to say, that your Zoom doesn't appear to allow me to change my name like other Zooms. I've unfortunately got that on as my appellation for my hard drive. And so I'm sorry that I can't change it so that you could see my real name. Anyway, I'm a semi-retired massage therapist. I live across the street in Galilee Harbor. And I just wanted to, I think this is a wonderful revitalization, shall we say, of the use of that building. And I just wanted to let you know that I support it completely. I think it's a wonderful thing to happen. And so hopefully we won't have this problem when I come up and I have to talk again. So thank you for your patience. |
| 03:31:17.05 | Kristina Feller | Thank you so much, sir. Thank you for commenting this evening and for being here. |
| 03:31:20.34 | Tom Hoover | Oh, you did it. Oh, boy. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. |
| 03:31:24.93 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 03:31:25.56 | Tom Hoover | . |
| 03:31:26.45 | Kristina Feller | Great. Let's see. Do we do I don't see any more hands from the public, but I'll just give a minute as I scroll here. Um, I do not see any more hands. Okay, I'm gonna go ahead and close public comment. and bring the discussion back up here to our virtual dais. Does anybody want to start the conversation or? I'm delighted to see so many people from the public support such a great business and support the economic recovery of Caledonia and our wonderful Sausalito that we all enjoy. |
| 03:32:09.72 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 03:32:09.79 | Nastassya Saad | Go ahead and start. |
| 03:32:11.10 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 03:32:11.14 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:32:12.34 | Nastassya Saad | And I was going to say the same thing. That space has been empty for a while. It was definitely you know, It's always hard to see any business fail. The previous business in there was I think ill suited and I think A yoga studio will really It will be great for the community. We haven't had one in a very long time. It's nice to see a young entrepreneur Sasslita resident and I didn't have any issues with any of the of the staff report I think I agree and I'd be happy to make a motion or agree with a motion when we got there with the staff report in my opinion. I think the signage looked Looks great. I think Commissioner Pierce did have a comment that I noticed. I wasn't sure though, because it's not too familiar yet, but I do think the lighting fixture may need to be looked at for the benefit of the applicant. and her signage. But outside of that, I think it would be a great, great addition, definitely want to support it. |
| 03:33:13.15 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Commissioner Saad. Commissioner Luxenberg? |
| 03:33:18.00 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I think it'll be great for the area and I would second Commissioner Saad's motion. |
| 03:33:24.04 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 03:33:24.85 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 03:33:25.34 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. |
| 03:33:26.17 | Kristina Feller | Commissioner Pierce. |
| 03:33:27.92 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 03:33:27.94 | Morgan Pierce | So are we moving right into the motion? I agree. I think it was amazing. It'll be nice to see foot traffic in this end of town and and some liveliness in that building. And I feel like the applicant adequately addressed the concerns I had regarding the light fixture. you know, she may want it to be, I think she mentioned she |
| 03:33:49.40 | Unknown | Mm-hmm. |
| 03:33:49.76 | Morgan Pierce | was looking for it to be deliberately understated. The fixture that was selected there, while an indoor fixture, |
| 03:33:49.82 | Bob Woodrum | Thank you. |
| 03:33:49.84 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:33:49.98 | Bob Woodrum | Thank you. |
| 03:33:49.99 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:33:56.03 | Morgan Pierce | they're identical ones available for outdoors. So I, I, I should see no problem. Should she reconsider and want to do something that maybe subtly illuminates the graphics a little bit more? I would be fine with staff handling that, the administrative aspect, just because it seems like she really doesn't want to illuminate much, so. I'm fully supportive of this project. |
| 03:34:20.65 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, thank you, Commissioner Pierce. Vice Chair Graff, any thoughts to add? |
| 03:34:33.88 | Kristina Feller | Posture graph. |
| 03:34:36.43 | Morgan Pierce | You're on mute, right? |
| 03:34:36.97 | Richard Graef | should |
| 03:34:37.19 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. |
| 03:34:37.97 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. you're on, you know, |
| 03:34:39.50 | Richard Graef | Okay, sorry about that. |
| 03:34:39.76 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 03:34:41.68 | Richard Graef | I'll start over. I also support the project. You know, it's great. from Somebody will be in there. My only comment was the same as Uh, Commissioner Pierce's about a signage light which, is probably not really very adequate. I was just gonna suggest that perhaps whoever's fabricating the signs letters, sign company, if that's who it is, they might have some I mean, be able to advise you on on a a fixture that might give you a little bit more spread up there. but I do appreciate you wanting to keep it low key. Anyway, yes, definitely. I would vote yes. |
| 03:35:36.00 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 03:35:36.02 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:35:36.12 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. I don't think I have any more to add. And again, based on what has been drafted for our approval this evening, this would come back to us in 18 months for any further modification. regarding the conditional use. So I'm very comfortable Um, if somebody wants to make a motion to approve, |
| 03:36:04.57 | Morgan Pierce | Well, I'll go ahead and make a motion to approve. as conditioned the application for 1621 Bridgeway conditional use permits special What's SP? |
| 03:36:17.85 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 03:36:18.36 | Morgan Pierce | Oh, sign permit. Sorry. special use permits, We'll get the numbers here. Hang on. Bear with me. Oh, I guess it's just one term. 2021-00040. for Cloud Break Yoga. Um, Motion to approve as conditional. |
| 03:36:37.68 | Kristina Feller | Do I have a second? |
| 03:36:38.30 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 03:36:39.28 | Kristina Feller | Excellent. |
| 03:36:39.60 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 03:36:39.62 | Morgan Pierce | I'll talk. |
| 03:36:40.77 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Vice Chair. Director Whelan, could you kindly take the role? |
| 03:36:47.16 | Director Whalen | Commissioner Luxembourg. |
| 03:36:49.20 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yeah. |
| 03:36:50.00 | Director Whelan | We sure have that. |
| 03:36:51.25 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 03:36:51.26 | Director Whelan | Yeah. |
| 03:36:51.47 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 03:36:52.07 | Director Whelan | Commissioner Pierce. |
| 03:36:53.03 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yes. |
| 03:36:53.39 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. |
| 03:36:53.91 | Director Whelan | They shook her ass. |
| 03:36:55.19 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 03:36:55.21 | Morgan Pierce | Yeah. |
| 03:36:55.82 | Director Whelan | And chair filler. Yes. Mercurius 5-0. Thank you. |
| 03:36:59.94 | Kristina Feller | Great. Thank you so much and best of luck, Ms. Ibrahim. |
| 03:37:03.09 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Mm-hmm. |
| 03:37:03.55 | Kristina Feller | Um, director Whelan, could you, um, read the next item on our agenda this evening? |
| 03:37:09.02 | Director Whalen | Next item is 4C, which is a fact-finding hearing for the purpose of making advisory decision regarding the restoration of views from five three Easterby by four trees located on nearby property. at 535 and 537 East Ravey. And our assistant planner Larissa Alchin will be giving the staff presentation this evening. I'm going to also remind the commission and public about the procedural order tonight for this item. It's a little, we don't get fact finding hearings that often. After the staff presentation and commission questions for staff, The claimant will then have 10 minutes per team for their presentation. The tree owner's team will then have 10 minutes per team for their presentation. We'll then have public comments. three minutes per speaker. Then there's five minutes per team for the claimant. five minutes for the owner. and then the commission will deliberate and issue an advisory decision. And I see Larissa here to give her presentation. |
| 03:38:12.15 | Larissa Alchin | Hello, commissioners and members of the public. |
| 03:38:21.61 | Larissa Alchin | I'm here to present the view claim for Ms. Hughes and Ms. Trump. on 543 Easterby Street. And the trees were located at 535 and 537 Easter Beaks. |
| 03:38:39.28 | Larissa Alchin | and just blow this. for you. |
| 03:38:46.43 | Larissa Alchin | . |
| 03:38:46.59 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:38:47.92 | Larissa Alchin | The request is to hold a fact-finding meeting and make an advisory decision for restoration of views from 543 Easter Beach. |
| 03:38:58.75 | Larissa Alchin | The process for a view claim involves initial reconciliation, mediation and binding arbitration outreach. The initial reconciliation was in December of 2017. The claimant, Mrs. Hughes, contacted Ms. Chung, the tree owner, and came to a verbal agreement on trimming the subject trees and sharing of costs to perform the work. with $1,000 coming from the 543 Easterby HOA. in January 2018. to participate in the treatment collaboration. The In June 2020, Ms. Hughes again reached out to Ms. Chunk to discuss the restoration of views. After that, there was a request for mediation. in July of 2020. And then a request for binding operation. November 17, 2020. It was a letter sent from Ms. Yu's representation to Ms. Chung. via email and certified mail. offering binding arbitration, but no reply was received. |
| 03:40:11.33 | Director Whalen | know. |
| 03:40:15.37 | Larissa Alchin | the subject. |
| 03:40:16.14 | Director Whalen | I'm so sorry to interrupt. |
| 03:40:17.04 | Larissa Alchin | Thank you. |
| 03:40:17.34 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 03:40:23.50 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:40:23.52 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yes. WHEN YOU ARE. |
| 03:40:25.37 | Unknown | We can't see the slides. |
| 03:40:25.46 | Jeffery Luxenberg | We can't see the slides. |
| 03:40:28.97 | Unknown | you . |
| 03:40:33.15 | Larissa Alchin | Let me retry that. I could see it. |
| 03:40:38.87 | Kristina Feller | I could see it. |
| 03:40:44.54 | Larissa Alchin | Can you see them now? Yeah. |
| 03:40:46.15 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yes. |
| 03:40:50.32 | Larissa Alchin | Okay. The subject trees are a row of three undesirable Monterey Cypress and one protected coast live oak. with two trunks that measure 10 inches and 12 inches at breast height. We did get confirmation that the three cypress trees are on the private property, not in the public right away. |
| 03:41:17.77 | Larissa Alchin | The location of the property 545 Easterby is outlined in red. and five. Uh... where the subject trees are located is outlined in yellow. |
| 03:41:37.09 | Larissa Alchin | There are a few definitions when considering these view claims according to the municipal code of view I mean, the vista of the San Francisco, Richardson Bay, neighboring communities, surrounding hills or nearby distant wooded area. from the primary living area of the home. And primary living area is considered to be a living room a dining room, kitchen, master bedroom, and deck and patio spaces. In this case, it is the living room. |
| 03:42:08.16 | Larissa Alchin | Our birth report documents four trees on the tree owner's property at 537-535 Easterby which are claimed to obstruct views from the living room at 543 Easter Beats. The view from the living room has not been diminished by factors other than the growth of the subject trees, since the property was purchased in 2013, I believe. The arborist estimates the tree growth abstracts approximately 80% of the view. |
| 03:42:39.93 | Larissa Alchin | The character of the view obstruction can be seen in the two photos. 2013, the picture above is from the living room. And then the current view below is from just recently in the last couple weeks. |
| 03:42:56.94 | Larissa Alchin | The arborist report recommends that the subject trees be reduced in height using heading cuts to the level indicated by the dash yellow line. This will restore the views of the waterfront, bay and peninsula. And maintenance pruning would be required every two years. The Arbor certifies the work to the protected coast life oak would not require, would not rise to the level requiring a tree removal or alteration permit. The cypress trees are considered undesirable and they do not require a a permit for work on them. |
| 03:43:35.64 | Larissa Alchin | Staff recommends the planning commission conduct a fact-finding hearing after the After conducting the fact-firing hearing staff recommends planning commission adopt the draft which issues an advisory decision advising that the three Monterey, Cyprus, and one Coast Live Oak identified in the Arborist Report be reduced in height. Cost to perform the work will be allocated with a cost sharing agreement similar to the 2017 civil agreement. The discussion from the Planning Commission must address findings with respect to the standards in the Municipal Code and recommend restorative action and allocation of costs if necessary. alternatively the commission could recommend services of other experts to be looked at or continue the public hearing to obtain additional information. |
| 03:44:34.84 | Larissa Alchin | And that concludes my presentation. and I'm open for any questions. |
| 03:44:41.43 | Kristina Feller | Larissa, thank you so much for your presentation and all the hard work you've put into this. I know there's been a lot of correspondences back and forth in late mails and you have... kept us all very organized, and that's most appreciated, so thank you. Um, Do the commissioners have any questions for staff? Commissioner Luxenberg? |
| 03:45:04.67 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I just have two questions. Help me here because I'm new to the commission. Why are the Monterey Cypress undesirable trees? I know they're listed in section 11, 12, 020, and I've read that. But what about, why are those six particular trees listed that way as opposed to other trees? Do you know or somebody on the commission know? |
| 03:45:29.61 | Larissa Alchin | I am not sure but somebody on the commissioner or possibly Lily might have better |
| 03:45:37.93 | Jeffery Luxenberg | If we're gonna bring Lilly up for that, the other question I have is, how often does this type of, thing come before the commission where they do this kind of hearing. How often in the year? I mean, how many times would you say? |
| 03:45:54.37 | Director Whalen | Thank you, Commissioner Lipsenberg. I'll start with the last question first. It's not very often that we have these fact-finding hearings. I think it has been an number of years, maybe a year and a half since we've had one of these hearings. the Planning Commission Um, Karen Hollweg, graciously took on this role, a few years ago, so it's a new item for the planning Commission, it used to be a trees and views committee function and then it was passed on to the planning Commission. And then as far as the other question that you had about the undesirable trees in municipal code. I don't have historical information on how that list was developed. Commissioner Pierce might be able to weigh in on maybe some of why those trees are |
| 03:46:44.81 | Morgan Pierce | I am uncertain. Whether they're invasive or undesirable from a trash perspective or Fire danger, I'm not really sure. |
| 03:46:54.61 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:46:56.17 | Jeffery Luxenberg | clear. Okay, I guess, well, I was just hoping to find out why, you know, they specifically listed those. And I understand it means that they're not protected. I got the zoning part of it. I just was trying to figure out why it bothered to list six or seven trees as opposed to thousands of other species. you know anyways thank you i have no more questions uh chair fell |
| 03:47:20.57 | Kristina Feller | I'm sorry. |
| 03:47:20.63 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 03:47:20.65 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Thank you very much. Commissioner Saad? Thank you. |
| 03:47:24.87 | Nastassya Saad | Um, The only one I had, and I'm sorry if I missed it from the presentation, it's just regarding the late mail. Um, I, I think it came in right before five o'clock today. I don't know if that's the right time to bring that up, but I just wanted to know when we can address that. that Ms. Chung had met with a tree expert the other day, and so Maybe that'll be part of our conversation for the dais. I didn't know if that was just something to bring up now or. |
| 03:48:00.10 | Kristina Feller | Well, if you have a question for staff, absolutely. |
| 03:48:02.92 | Nastassya Saad | Yeah, and I said, I asked this in email, but just for the benefit of the commission, I had asked Larissa if, Just to confirm that that late mail about the meeting that Ms. Chang had with Bartlett tree experts was in fact just a meeting and that there was no signed. It's just a scope of work that there's been no signature or agreement. So maybe just for the record since that was a direct email. |
| 03:48:26.60 | Larissa Alchin | I believe that's correct. It was just a meeting to get estimates for the work I don't know if anything has been signed at this point. |
| 03:48:33.52 | Nastassya Saad | No. Okay, thank you. Thank you, Chair Fowler. That's all. |
| 03:48:39.73 | Larissa Alchin | Okay. |
| 03:48:39.96 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 03:48:41.09 | Larissa Alchin | Thank you. |
| 03:48:41.11 | Kristina Feller | Commissioner Pierce. |
| 03:48:44.08 | Morgan Pierce | I have no questions, thank you. |
| 03:48:45.38 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 03:48:45.95 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Oystergram? |
| 03:48:48.43 | Richard Graef | questions. |
| 03:48:49.63 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 03:48:50.36 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Chair, can I go back? I have a question now that Commissioner Saad put that on the table. I asked a question about that. That scope of work includes work to address the abutters problem, but also includes work, a general maintenance of the trees. Was there any discussion about how much of that estimate is to address the abutters concerns versus how much is just typical tree maintenance? |
| 03:49:19.58 | Larissa Alchin | I'm not sure what the discussion was on that. I received that late mail at about 3.30 today. So I haven't had a chance to really investigate that. And I don't think there's been any communication. between and the pre-owner. |
| 03:49:37.37 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 03:49:38.00 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Okay, thank you. Thank you, Chair Phillips. |
| 03:49:40.65 | Kristina Feller | Karen Hollweg, Absolutely, I actually had a follow on question to to both Commissioner sudden Commissioner Luxenberg along these lines. And Larissa, I sent you an email about this. I'm assuming that the applicants was not present at this meeting. And we have no way to verify what exactly the scope was that Bartlett has of bid on. Is that correct? |
| 03:50:12.93 | Larissa Alchin | Correct. The claimant was not present at that meeting for the arborist. STUMPH. |
| 03:50:21.53 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Um, I don't have any further questions. Any other questions for staff at this time? Okay. Let's go ahead and ask if both Um, The claimant can come up and present for 10 minutes. And after that, we'll have the tree owners team for 10 minutes. And we're going to save five each at the end. So claim it first. And if you could, Zoom team, you could help unmute. the claimant and welcome this evening. If you could just state your name for the record 10 minutes for your presentation. Thank you for being here. |
| 03:51:12.50 | Karina Hughes | Thank you. My name is Karina Hughes, and I'm the resident at 543 Easterby Street. I appreciate everyone's time. I'm grateful for this opportunity to bring something like this forward in such a transparent and open manner. So I do have if I can share my screen. Much of my slides you've already seen, so I can cruise through them pretty rapidly. I did want to just add a little bit of a little bit more context. to a couple things. You let me know when you can. Nice green. |
| 03:51:51.09 | Kristina Feller | Yep, you should be able to share now. |
| 03:51:53.50 | Karina Hughes | Okay. |
| 03:51:59.16 | Vicki Nichols | Okay, here we go. |
| 03:52:00.50 | Karina Hughes | All right, thank you. I'm good. this really quickly. THE END OF THE END OF THE You've seen this. and the applicants. Thank you. And I'm from the Bay Area and I purchased here in 2013. you know, from those long held hopes and dreams to live here. You've seen this. you view from my living room and kitchen and dining room area because it's an open living space. And then there's the image that I took more recently. and how it's obstructed. I did want to just mention and add just a little bit more context. There were actually three different attempts. Technically, there was a first attempt in the years of 2014 to 2015 And that was triggered by some, by PG&E coming and doing some tree trimming. and then we'll email by owner 545, alerting Mrs. Chong that the PGA had come made sense it would be a good time to finish the work. |
| 03:53:15.57 | Unknown | you |
| 03:53:15.83 | Karina Hughes | I was asked to participate and so I sent a couple of emails I introduced myself and made that first request to do some work on the trees. We never received any response. And I was very busy at home with family things and still had a very lovely view. So it wasn't anything I wanted to move forward with. And then the second attempt was, as we stated earlier, presentations. in 2017, the triggering of that here was that there was some major wins and rainstorms that caused it to send them to shatter off the tree a little bit kind of hanging precariously onto the renter at the time, their outdoor furniture. And there was some discussions and back and forth with that renter my understanding that this is chilling around CAN THERE BE SOME TREE WORK And at that time, it was quite a bit of work that needed to be done. And then there was a, later on in the year, in December, there was a |
| 03:54:22.81 | Unknown | Honoring me. |
| 03:54:26.90 | Karina Hughes | an agreement that was struck that would be $1,000 to 545 and 543. to participate. and pay for the restoration of our views. was wholeheartedly behind it and thought it was a wonderful idea and that we could collaborate and it was very nice. I'm not sure. I think the sticking point here was that we were unable to finalize how that payment would IT WAS VERY UNFORTUNATE. |
| 03:54:59.09 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:54:59.45 | Karina Hughes | we were going to use the same tree company for also a tree trimming for a walnut tree, which is adjacent to my property. So it felt like it was all very positive. And in January, on January 30th, I received an email from Mrs. Chung, which was very definitive. And I think I shared that in the package that was essentially not to participate in this kind of collaboration at all. full stop. And then there was the last line that I added here, which was, again, very sort of adamant that no one should be touching the trees. Of course, I would never do that. but then there would be legal consequences. So that was a pretty harsh I'm not sure. email. And so I did consult with an attorney around, do we have any kind of recourse? What would that look like? Ultimately, it was decided not to pursue as part of the HOA And I decided it was a little bit already so protracted and challenging. I would just put a pin in it and walk away and maybe come back to it. And I did have occasion to see her a couple of years ago and said, hey, there's no hard feelings and, you know, come back to this at some point. And then this third attempt, at least what I identify as a third attempt, I reached out in June of last year. and offered to pay for work, offered to use her vendor of choice and her time frame. and then followed up with a couple of what I thought was cordial discussions on the phone. And at first the emails were positive. and I felt very optimistic. Some help. We resist a change. And so that's why I had the two phone calls. to discuss this and there was a couple things that came up that she said, and want to participate in it. MELP In any case, so we talked through that. and my request was denied. And so I have pursued what is outlined for the city. for someone like myself. And I'm grateful for that process because again, it offers and accords some transparency. in this kind of quest and can share information and so forth. I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT. So I did hire Dr. Kent Julen, who I believe is on the phone with us, to prepare a an arborist report for view restoration and of course, Larissa had cited some of that content. So I won't repeat that here. Um, And then, you know, just to end on a note for me, I just, you know, there is the ordinance. on the books for a random unusable obstruction. And I think that's what this is. And And in fact, I think the to miles have been unreasonable. I hope that the advisory decision is in my favor. and that there can be some input and guidance on next steps so that there could be a clear that we can pass forward for. resolution. And that's all I can. |
| 03:58:30.94 | Kristina Feller | Thank you very much, Ms. Hughes. Thank you for the slides. They're very helpful in your explanation and chronology of the events. Thank you very much. |
| 03:58:39.30 | Justin Klapparda | Okay. |
| 03:58:39.97 | Kristina Feller | Um, Could I ask the owners team if you could stop sharing here, Ms. Hughes? Um, And then if I can ask the tree owners team to unmute themselves and um, It's three weeks. Not sure who we have here representing the tree owner. could state your name and your team has 10 minutes to present to us. And the final five will be later on as a rebuttal. So do we have the tree owners team here? |
| 03:59:27.79 | Director Whalen | Larissa, can you help? determine if the tree owners teams are |
| 03:59:35.84 | Larissa Alchin | Yes, it does look like she's here. Again? Kong Min. |
| 03:59:41.46 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Okay. Ms. Mann, if you could... unmute yourself. |
| 03:59:59.67 | Kristina Feller | Larissa, do you have a way to get in touch with the tree owner? Oh, here we go. Hold on. Nope. Still not unmuted. |
| 04:00:10.50 | Unknown | Hi, yeah, hi, I'm here. I'm trying to help my parents get connected. So we forcibly set off our microphone and video earlier. So that's great. Okay, great, thanks. |
| 04:00:20.95 | Kwamean Chang | We have been here 6.30 until now. |
| 04:00:21.15 | Unknown | you |
| 04:00:24.71 | Kristina Feller | Okay, very good. Well, welcome this evening if you could State your name and you have 10 minutes for your presentation and welcome. Thank you for being here. |
| 04:00:33.98 | Kwamean Chang | Okay, my name is Kwamean Chang, C-H-E-U-N-G, and my husband. um we are the developer for the whole um I'm not sure. the comp, the, the, the Korean, everybody's total six units, we developed 30 years ago. What happened was in 2017, there was a hurricane and I need to trim the tree and Karina and the neighbor wants to have a view and I agree to let them share the cost of the tree cut. But Karina refused. and then later on. I do not understand why the three companies A part left even does not want to do the job anymore. After she, he talked to Karina. So I was in a rush to go back to Hong Kong. So I have to get the three, cut in 2017. Then after that, Karina wants to have the view, want me to cut the tree again. I said, you know, the tree is supposed to cut five to seven years. Not so frequently cut. The tree is old. It's not good for the tree. And then we have an email, telephone call, You know, it's beautiful But now, Then also I promised the Corina when the next time I treat the tree, I will let her join me. and to share the cost. Let her preserve the view. But now she was fired. a conference meeting with the city, and that's why we are here today. And in order to let my students my neighbors have their view and to protect my old tree. So I had the, uh, Tapar, let's His name is |
| 04:02:23.55 | Unknown | watch. |
| 04:02:23.83 | Kwamean Chang | Hwang Okun. Um, we went to the Sausalito house yesterday to get the you know, to see what the cost to have the view and have to trim the whole tree. And that's why the proposal was given by Huang. and the So, You know, I just try to make my, let my neighbors their bill, and also I would like to have a good company to cut the tree because the tree is old, is over 100 year, a tree and I love the tree. So that is a, Um, But since I cut three years ago, you know, tree in the tree, so I would like to Karina to take the whole, take care of the whole cost of tree in the tree in order to get her view And I think that's just there for the last early years, I was the only one cut the tree to let the neighbors have their view all by myself. I never asked a penny from them. So this time, because when I want them to do it, they don't want to do it. When I have done, they want to cut again. So they should bear the whole cost. That's it. And also I want this company. You know, he works for the city of Sausalito and I want this company, a good company to do the job. because this tree is old. He knows how to take care of the old tree. |
| 04:04:00.09 | Kwok Yin Chong | Excuse me. I am her husband. My name is Kwok Yin Chong is a little bit difficult, but to make it easy, I was in the original development team in 1976 or so. So it's a long time and the trees have been there already. And the current unit, 535, was one of the original fishermen's cottage. And the 537 was added to it. And we also split the lot and added the other two duplexes, which are south of our project. of the 535 and 537. So there's no sunlight issue, if anything. blocking sunlight, they are blocking mine rather than we are blocking him. or hers. So from that point of view, the only thing that she is claiming is real preservation, which we already said, if the cost is reasonable and they are willing to pay for it, it's okay with us. The reason why we said earlier and she quoted about the legal responsibility. Of course, if something mishebt happens during the tree trimming, Whatever happened, the responsibility being the site is ours. it would create trouble for us. That's why we want to notify her that we are aware of the responsibility and someone else other than the owner should not come into someone else project and do the trimming, and then wash their hands and hire somebody, not even an arborist licensed, and just do whatever they want. So that was from that point of view, it's not belligerent. It's just remind ourselves that there are certain responsibilities when we cut the trees. or trim the trees. So that's all I want to add. |
| 04:05:55.23 | Kristina Feller | Thank you so much. Thank you both for your time this evening and your presentation. Um, We will be moving to public comment at the moment. And if you could stay close because you'll have another five minutes once we complete public comment. So thank you. Thank you very much. Okay, at this time, we're going to open up this item to public comment. Director Whalen, if you could remind the public how to raise their hands in the Zoom application or on their cell phone. Um, That would be great. |
| 04:06:35.91 | Director Whalen | Now is the time for public participation and comment on this item. limited to three minutes per speaker. If you'd like to make a comment, please raise your hand now in the Zoom application. and you'll be called to have on when it's your time to speak. And if you're calling from a phone, please press star 9. Please state your name for the record. and Have some patience while we unmute you and ask you to start your video. |
| 04:06:58.54 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Director Whelan. Okay, let me give you a minute or so as you, if the public has any comments on this item. Give you a minute to raise your hand in the Zoom application or on your phone. |
| 04:07:17.29 | Kristina Feller | Zoom team, I am not seeing any hands. are you seeing something that I'm not? |
| 04:07:28.23 | Maria | No, Chair Bice. |
| 04:07:30.84 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Maria. Okay. Uh... then I'm going to close public comment now. As there was no public comment, you still did both the, The claimant. has another five minutes. to make any Final comment. And after that, then the claimant, excuse me, then the owner will have five minutes and then we will, bring it back up to the Commission on the virtual dais to discuss further. We do have one public comment. I'm gonna reopen public comment. There is somebody with their hand raised with, with, uh, identified as 545. if you could unmute and announce yourself, your name. For the record, You have three minutes for public comments. |
| 04:08:35.73 | Kristina Feller | We can hear you. |
| 04:08:43.49 | Kristina Feller | 545. You are unmuted. If you could state your name, if you'd like to make public comments. If you would not, if you could, Put your hand down. |
| 04:09:05.90 | Kristina Feller | Zoom team, could you assist here? It was. |
| 04:09:10.08 | Director Whalen | It looks like 545 has been unmuted. I'm not sure why we can't hear them. suggest if they're having audio issues to call in and |
| 04:09:24.00 | Director Whalen | Possibly. We can take their public comment when they call in. |
| 04:09:30.87 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 04:09:31.18 | Director Whalen | Thank you. via phone and if you'd like me to say the number it's listed on the agenda right now but happy to read it out |
| 04:09:38.15 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yeah. |
| 04:09:40.63 | Director Whalen | So the number to call is 1-669-625-425. 9000. Six, eight, 3-3. and the meeting ID. is 405. 29 five, two, eight, three sixths. And then you'll... Press pound. |
| 04:10:10.34 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Director Whelan. I think we will wait for this person to possibly call in. Um, and hopefully they will be able to make their public comment Otherwise I would like to continue with this hearing. respecting everyone's time here this evening as we're going over time. Okay. Let's go ahead and close public comment. And if I could ask the claimant if they would like another five minutes |
| 04:10:47.30 | Kristina Feller | Ms. Hughes. |
| 04:10:48.21 | Karina Hughes | but Yeah, so I really appreciate the history of this parcel and the dedication and, you know, of the... and how they have built up their, uh, these parcels So, I just want to make that statement. and I hope that they can appreciate and be sensitive to the fact that there are people who you know, come in. to live here and appreciate the view and want to continue to move forward. Um, with what they their expectation of time of purchase There is one email that I shared and it is the one that's dated January 30th. which is the letter or the email from Mrs. Chang, which is, I think, about as crystal clear. Again, I have decided to decline the tree trimming collaboration proposal. So, I don't know that it could be any more crystal clear. then that she had made a decision not to move forward. So I can share my screen or we can refer back to that email I believe I shared it. |
| 04:12:15.12 | Kristina Feller | Yes, you did share it with us. |
| 04:12:17.04 | Karina Hughes | Okay. So then you have it. Yeah, I just, you know, and I, I want to respect everyone's time. and the purpose of this meeting And I didn't want to get into, you know, kind of a he said, she said type of thing, but I really want to very strenuously recount and refute that statement that I would ever I never did that. Of course I would participate, of course I would pay, of course I would want review. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. |
| 04:12:54.96 | Kristina Feller | Thank you very much, Ms. Hughes. Thank you. Um, okay. I'd like to ask the tree owners, the Mr. and Mrs. Chang, would you like to come back up? here on our Zoom screen, you have an additional five minutes if there's anything else you'd like to to add Um, to your point of view and your position on the trees. Thank you. |
| 04:13:20.41 | Kwamean Chang | Yes. |
| 04:13:20.58 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 04:13:23.12 | Kwamean Chang | There you go. Yes. You know, the statement of Corina made was totally not accurate. And she was the one declined joining me in 2017 to have the tree trimming. and I have the email and she was the one very clearly and she did not want it. And when I call her, then she said, oh, you need to trim the tree anyway. Why I have to pay. So that's why I treated the tree without the top, because she does not want to participate. Now after I you know, after that, Deryn was in 2017, now she wants to immediately wants to preserve her view of ba ba ba, you know, keep writing to me. And as I said before, I don't want to repeat wasting everybody's time. But now, I understand she wants to view. I still let the the tree specialist to take a look and I let her trim the tree, but she had to take the whole cost because I just did it 2017. I should not do it now. but because for her, But the treatment made very clearly, if you want to cut a tree, have to trim the whole thing all over again. For the old tree, it's not good to do that so often. But just for her, and I let her do it, but she had to pay the whole cost. That's all. |
| 04:14:47.33 | Kwok Yin Chong | Okay, I want to add something. My wife's natural language or is not English. What we received was sometimes verbal, sometimes written emails. What she, Karina has presented |
| 04:15:05.54 | Unknown | you Thank you. |
| 04:15:09.99 | Kwok Yin Chong | was our reaction to her email. So if you do not see the previous email and take it out of context, it does not really reflect at the time our attitude. We started with a spirit of cooperation. Suddenly there was some monkey rainstorm in the thing. She has to do it her way, ask her own treatment or whatever. I don't recall the exact words, and that turned it off. So finally, because like my wife said, she had to take off from the country, so she did it all by ourselves, pay off our own pocket. That was the last time. So Karina took it out of context. I don't think it's fair. You have to see what went before that. Okay, thank you. |
| 04:16:00.65 | Kristina Feller | Thank you both very much. Thank you. Thank you for your time this evening. Okay. Um, Let's bring it back up here to the virtual dais. and deliberate and issue an advisory decision. So would anyone like to start that conversation? or |
| 04:16:21.90 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I can start if you'd like. It seems to me that the applicant should be able to have her view It seems that the owners of the trees are willing to allow that to occur now. They may have had some communication issues over the last several years. There is a proposal from a tree firm that does work at Sausalito, so that seems good. that proposal that came in late mail today does have a tree that's not one of the four trees. First of all, the arborist says that it's safe to trim the trees, so I think we should allow it to be trimmed to the level that the arborist says. And I think the only issue is The cost of it includes a tree that's not one of the four trees. So I don't think that that should be part of the applicant's cost. there is some maintenance that's there. And then the question is, who pays for the maintenance costs as opposed to just the heading costs. But I think that everyone at this point is to the point where there's a tree consultant, obviously she should get her view, so we should figure out a way to make it all happen and then everyone will be happy. |
| 04:17:43.89 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Commissioner Luxenberg. I like the way you summarize that. Thank you very much. Commissioner Saad, any additional, anything to add to that or? |
| 04:17:54.24 | Nastassya Saad | No. commissioner Luxembourg's enthusiasm. I think there's something on the table and we should see if, if, if Ms. Hughes is open to that. |
| 04:18:05.59 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 04:18:06.30 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 04:18:06.59 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. |
| 04:18:06.73 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Commissioner Pierce. |
| 04:18:09.22 | Morgan Pierce | Yeah, no, I definitely enjoyed Commissioner Luxembourg's depiction of the scenario, and I agree wholeheartedly. I am curious what this body's opinion is on responsibility for trimming trees and maintaining views that may be from off-site, because while I understand that it is the neighbor that wants the view, there is some incumbent upon the owner of the trees to maintain them to preserve quality of life for their neighbors. So I feel, I don't know, I'm not sure I'm compelled to put all of the obligation on Ms. Hughes to put the bill, but I'm interested in what my fellow commissioners think. And I'm not sure if that's part of our our deliberations determined who pays what? Those are my thoughts. |
| 04:18:59.26 | Kristina Feller | Very good. Vice Chair Graff. |
| 04:19:01.84 | Richard Graef | Yes, thank you. Well, I pretty much agree with my fellow commissioners. the view has been significantly obstructed and and ought to be restored Um, It sounds as if the tree owners are willing to have the work done. if the applicant is willing to pay for it. Um, I don't know what kind of authority or influence that we have I think if that's something that's that's feasible for all parties down I would encourage them to go ahead and do that. As far as maintaining the tree over time. I said, you know, it's gonna wanna grow again. I kind of think the owner of the tree should take at least some of the responsibility for that. But maybe that's negotiable. But generally, I think the tree needs to be cut. And I think it looks like we have a solution. |
| 04:20:20.86 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, I mean, I, I, um, You know, it's, it's always a shame when, when neighbors can't work out these things together. But, but we have a process and procedure in place when they cannot. |
| 04:20:29.59 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 04:20:35.75 | Kristina Feller | That's why we're here this evening. Um, If you look at the photos between 2013 and 2021 recently, There's a substantial amount of growth there. I think that This applicant has been trying for some time and whatever. the communications were between the tree owner, the applicant, miscommunication, whatever that might be. I think it's it's disproportionate to make the applicant pay for all of it because it has been an ongoing problem that has been trying to be solved. for so long. So I would. totally support the original and the cost-sharing I think that's a good question. Thank you. situation that they had at one time worked out. And then just ensure that the maintenance is a requirement. And part of our advisory decision. |
| 04:21:34.17 | Sean Naughton | Thank you. |
| 04:21:40.28 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Can I make one comment on the regional agreement included the HOA. And I understand from what's going on that the HOA is not out of it now, it's just the applicant themselves. So just wanted to make that note. |
| 04:21:58.32 | Kristina Feller | Thank you for... Clarifying that and I, you are correct. If I look here. So let's make it between the applicant and the tree owner. |
| 04:22:12.61 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 04:22:13.15 | Kristina Feller | that it needs to be a shared cost, both for the restoration of the view and for the ongoing maintenance. |
| 04:22:23.65 | Kristina Feller | That would be my decision on that, or my opinion. Yes, Vice Chair Graff. |
| 04:22:31.04 | Richard Graef | um, yeah, regarding, uh, making a recommendation like that. You know, and I also I think it would be good if it could be shared. But, What happens if the parties still cannot come to an agreement? January. Maybe that's something for Lily. |
| 04:22:55.76 | Kristina Feller | I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. |
| 04:22:56.18 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 04:23:01.83 | Kristina Feller | And even our city attorney, Mary Wagner, if she's available as well. |
| 04:23:09.23 | Director Whalen | Thank you, Chair Feller. So the decision for you this evening is advisory And the next step after this process if the parties still cannot agree would be through the court system. And there's a there'd be a presumption in favor of the planning commission's advisory decision I'm sure Mary can correct the way I said that. Well said. That works. |
| 04:23:40.23 | Kristina Feller | Okay. That's good to know. Thank you. Thank you. Well, tree owners have to maintain trees no matter what. So, Actually, Director Whalen, are we making a motion here as the advisory decision? Is that what you're looking for? |
| 04:24:05.96 | Director Whalen | Yeah, we've prepared a draft resolution for you that has |
| 04:24:10.21 | Natasha Worsham | Thank you. |
| 04:24:10.28 | Kristina Feller | Bye. |
| 04:24:10.33 | Natasha Worsham | as |
| 04:24:10.75 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 04:24:10.97 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:24:11.70 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 04:24:11.71 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:24:11.76 | Director Whalen | handers. |
| 04:24:11.78 | Unknown | . |
| 04:24:12.24 | Natasha Worsham | Thank you. |
| 04:24:12.25 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:24:13.81 | Director Whalen | evaluated like we did in the staff report. |
| 04:24:15.19 | Natasha Worsham | Thank you. |
| 04:24:16.25 | Director Whalen | And in that draft resolution we put together some conditions of approval Yeah. |
| 04:24:20.89 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 04:24:21.64 | Director Whalen | So that starts, unfortunately I don't have page numbers on this, it's the last page of the draft resolution. which is a 10-10-1. |
| 04:24:27.58 | Unknown | that happened. |
| 04:24:28.81 | Director Whalen | . |
| 04:24:31.66 | Unknown | Uh-huh. |
| 04:24:32.67 | Director Whalen | Does I put parameters on a caution agreement and how bids for the arborist would be collected. Essentially, the tree owner would be responsible for deciding who they would like to do the work. and three beds are collected and the tree to choose the a treat company they'd like to work with. A deposit from the claimant would be submitted as equal to the lowest bid. |
| 04:25:02.86 | Kristina Feller | Yeah. |
| 04:25:03.76 | Director Whalen | the $1,000, which came from the cost sharing agreement presented by the claimant. Thank you. four years ago. |
| 04:25:11.82 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 04:25:14.18 | Director Whalen | The one thing I did want to mention is that we don't have maintenance covered in the draft resolution. So that would be. the commission would like to address maintenance that would be the appropriate place to put it is a condition of approval regarding maintenance Then I also want to make sure Marissa Thank you. Verifies that condition three sorry, condition number two references only a coast live oak. And I wanna make sure that that condition references all the trees that are supposed to be truth. |
| 04:25:51.92 | Larissa Alchin | Yes, I believe condition number two. Sorry, we're talking about |
| 04:25:56.29 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 04:25:56.31 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 04:25:56.32 | Director Whalen | Amen. |
| 04:25:56.54 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 04:25:56.64 | Richard Graef | River face. |
| 04:25:57.37 | Jeffery Luxenberg | you |
| 04:25:57.44 | Richard Graef | numero |
| 04:25:57.98 | Jeffery Luxenberg | around. |
| 04:25:58.35 | Director Whalen | Thank you. It's the last page of attachment one. They don't have a... |
| 04:26:04.03 | Richard Graef | I have it all. |
| 04:26:04.96 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 04:26:05.03 | Richard Graef | I don't know where |
| 04:26:05.98 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 04:26:06.01 | Richard Graef | Thank you. I don't know. |
| 04:26:06.97 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 04:26:07.02 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 04:26:07.31 | Kristina Feller | It's attachment to. |
| 04:26:08.45 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 04:26:08.47 | Richard Graef | Yeah. |
| 04:26:13.55 | Richard Graef | I'm looking for it. |
| 04:26:17.23 | Director Whalen | And while the Commission's finding that Chair Feller, if I may, another, Um. MR KIRBY, I'm not sure. augmentations these conditions might be that the, um, the height needs to be maintained at the, um, the height indicated in the arborist report. I think that's also missing from the draft resolution and that could be a part of your maintenance condition. |
| 04:26:39.47 | Kristina Feller | for us. |
| 04:26:44.40 | Kristina Feller | I think that's a really good Oh, |
| 04:26:46.12 | Director Whalen | Oh. |
| 04:26:46.42 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 04:26:46.96 | Kristina Feller | I think it's important, actually, so we don't continue to have this come back. um, Thank you. |
| 04:26:54.95 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Can I suggest some wording or whatever, Chair Feller? Absolutely. Okay, so number three says that the cost of obtaining, and there's not, we've established that you don't need a tree removal permit. So I would say the cost of obtaining the necessary tree work will evenly split. So number three and four are a little bit contradictory. And then four, I would take out the cost information because three covers it. And I would just say, and if we can get the applicant back on, if she would agree to use Bartlett, then let's just not have to make the tree owner get three estimates when she really, the tree owner really wants to use Bartlett, so let's let them do that. |
| 04:27:01.73 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 04:27:01.97 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yeah. |
| 04:27:47.55 | Jeffery Luxenberg | And then out of that estimate, the understanding will be only, we'll have the In number two, we're going to add the Monterey Cypress. And in the Bartlett estimate right now, there's a tree that's not one of the five. So take that out of the estimate. And if she wants to do that separately, that's fine. So what I'm saying is take three, amend three to take out the tree removal permit. Amend four to take out the whole cost thing because it's covered by three. and then add the Monterey Cypress and the hike to number two again. |
| 04:28:23.91 | Kristina Feller | Director Whalen, was that, clear, clear enough, or do we need to go over that here? |
| 04:28:30.17 | Director Whalen | I think we made two over some of it. One point of clarification, I think there's an error in the draft resolution in that three, you're right, three and four conflict with each other. for was meant as staff to be the condition regarding the payment arrangement as it mimicked the payment arrangement that they had |
| 04:28:39.67 | Director Whelan | for, |
| 04:28:50.12 | Director Whalen | they had come to an agreement in 2017. So three is an error on our part. |
| 04:28:58.27 | Kristina Feller | Director Whalen, can I ask that, let's go over these five together. So, The first one is okay. Correct. |
| 04:29:11.65 | Kristina Feller | The second one. is okay. the conditions of advisory decision, correct? |
| 04:29:18.87 | Director Whalen | I'm correct with the exception of identifying the correct, all the correct trees that need to be trimmed. |
| 04:29:23.63 | Kristina Feller | I agree. Let's correct number two and call it what? We've got the Cyprus. We've got the bay. |
| 04:29:36.56 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I don't think we have to do the bay. I didn't think we had to do the bay. The bay's not part of the view claim. |
| 04:29:39.24 | Morgan Pierce | the base. |
| 04:29:42.09 | Kristina Feller | It wasn't part of it. Okay. |
| 04:29:43.66 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. So it's the three sides, the close live oak and three Monterey Cypress. |
| 04:29:49.47 | Kristina Feller | Okay. So let's fix it right now one by one, make sure we're all on the same page. |
| 04:30:00.22 | Kristina Feller | And Larissa, if we're getting any of this wrong, you definitely chime in here for sure. |
| 04:30:06.19 | Larissa Alchin | Thank you. I'm following along. |
| 04:30:08.25 | Kristina Feller | Okay. All right, so let's go to number three here. |
| 04:30:13.18 | Unknown | you |
| 04:30:18.48 | Kristina Feller | So, So we should add maintenance here. To maintain. the the height per the arborist report. |
| 04:30:43.65 | Kristina Feller | I'm sure Joella knows. Thank you. |
| 04:30:44.77 | Director Whalen | Yeah, I'm clear on I'm clear on that. The we would need to get direction from. the commission on the cost for maintenance. to be |
| 04:31:02.00 | Kristina Feller | I would evenly split it. |
| 04:31:06.49 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Is this maintenance to maintain the height? Yeah. Okay. |
| 04:31:10.62 | Mary Wagner | Chair Feller and Commissioner Wallen, can I make a suggestion? Why don't you put the maintenance into So you're gonna say, trees in question will be reduced in height in accordance with the Arbor's report Those heights will be maintained. I think you should look to the recommendation in the Arbus report about how often the trees are trimmed to maintain that height I know that's often a consideration. um, And then I think three and four deal with cost and you can deal with the cost of the trimming for this finding and then ongoing in that. if that makes sense to everybody. |
| 04:31:49.40 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, I'm fine leaving the arborist report as sort of the the report of authority here on the health and wellness of those trees. on the ongoing maintenance. |
| 04:32:06.85 | Kristina Feller | So, um, Regarding number four, I think as Commissioner Luxenberg was recommending you take those, the price out. |
| 04:32:20.95 | Richard Graef | Thank you. And the bedding. to multiple contractors? We're taking that out, or are we |
| 04:32:27.82 | Jeffery Luxenberg | We |
| 04:32:28.16 | Richard Graef | We, uh, recommending that they go with the specific contract. |
| 04:32:39.33 | Mary Wagner | out. I always keep- Sorry, chair fillers. Please, I'm sorry I interrupted you. |
| 04:32:43.67 | Kristina Feller | I'm sorry I interrupted you. |
| 04:32:45.98 | Mary Wagner | I would just recommend that you leave it as a bidding procedure and that, you know, you don't want to give an exclusive, not to suggest that any company would take advantage of that, but I don't think that the city should, be in the position to select the arborist. I know that the applicant or excuse me, the tree owner has a preference. but assuming that they bid and that's the company they choose, then that's the company you go with. |
| 04:33:10.65 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Right. |
| 04:33:11.48 | Director Whalen | And if I can, Chair Feller, the way that the condition is set up is that the tree owner is responsible for obtaining those three bids. |
| 04:33:22.41 | Kristina Feller | Well, yes, but the, obviously the applicant, if they're paying for it, they have to. Oh. they have to review it as well. They have to be part of it because I want to make sure that this is scoped properly. and not additional trees for the tree owner to be included in this as they are now. |
| 04:33:48.06 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I concur that we shouldn't be dictating a proprietary thing, but if we could, I wanna resolve this issue and not worry about precedents we're setting because in the first sentence, Uh, Can we just add something about she'll present the bids to the claimant unless the claimant is willing to go with one bid? I mean, I want to leave that option out there because I don't want to get mired in bureaucracy, I guess. So we're requiring three bids unless the claimant allows one bid. Is that something we can add? |
| 04:34:26.45 | Mary Wagner | or Commissioner Luxenberg what if we said unless the parties mutually agree on an arborist. That's great. |
| 04:34:33.02 | Jeffery Luxenberg | That's great. |
| 04:34:33.46 | Mary Wagner | Perfect. |
| 04:34:34.00 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 04:34:34.42 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 04:34:34.55 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 04:34:34.76 | Kristina Feller | And we're not recording three, we can just say multiple. |
| 04:34:40.02 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Okay. Um... And then the $1,000 that's there, it should be The equal to the. Lowest bill agreed upon 50% half of it because 1000 is not my not be happy. because that was from three years ago. |
| 04:34:59.38 | Kristina Feller | It should be agreed. Absolutely. Good. Good comment. |
| 04:35:07.97 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 04:35:10.97 | Director Whalen | Sorry, Chair Feller, just one clarification on that. So are we, is it moving from $1,000 to I've been. |
| 04:35:20.35 | Jeffery Luxenberg | 50% of the cost. |
| 04:35:25.90 | Director Whalen | Okay. So the, the condition would be the claimant shall deposit with the tree owner an amount equal to 50% of the bid. |
| 04:35:33.97 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 04:35:34.19 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 04:35:34.98 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 04:35:43.61 | Kristina Feller | And I think if there is a certified arborist providing supervision, we should stick with the arborist that has provided the report. |
| 04:36:03.11 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Who pays the cost of the arbor? |
| 04:36:05.31 | Director Whalen | I didn't follow you on that one. If you could repeat that. |
| 04:36:08.63 | Kristina Feller | The arborist should also be split 50 50. |
| 04:36:14.74 | Mary Wagner | Can I make a suggestion that that should be part of the bid? So then you're covered, right? Whatever bid is selected includes the arborist on site while the work is performed? |
| 04:36:24.71 | Kristina Feller | That's fine too. |
| 04:36:26.92 | Jeffery Luxenberg | That would be a different arboretum. |
| 04:36:29.20 | Mary Wagner | It's whatever bid they choose. |
| 04:36:34.13 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Okay. Somebody said earlier to use the arborist that wrote the report would not be |
| 04:36:38.31 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 04:36:38.37 | Kristina Feller | I just said that. |
| 04:36:39.55 | Mary Wagner | Oh, I apologize, Chair Feller. |
| 04:36:39.56 | Kristina Feller | Oh, I think so. I just said that, but I'm happy to put it out to a bit. This is going to be split equitably, equally, both parties responsible. |
| 04:36:51.31 | Mary Wagner | I apologize. I'm probably incorrect. The tree company probably doesn't have a certified arborist. It's a different issue. So my apologies. retract that recommendation. |
| 04:37:02.24 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Okay, so then let's use the arborist on record in this hearing. Okay, anybody pose? |
| 04:37:19.20 | Richard Graef | or it could be a mutually agreed barbarous. Um, because there could be some disagreement about whether it's the arborist of records or not. I mean, they're going to have to. |
| 04:37:32.40 | Kristina Feller | THE END OF It's just there for supervision. |
| 04:37:35.94 | Richard Graef | Yeah. |
| 04:37:36.80 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, and they're the ones who assessed this. |
| 04:37:39.99 | Richard Graef | Yes, but it's a cost and it's a responsibility. |
| 04:37:44.08 | Kristina Feller | That's why it's split. |
| 04:37:48.55 | Richard Graef | Yeah, I realize it's split, but as to deciding who which arborists is going to be the supervising arborist. That could be. an issue. between the two parties conceivably. So, |
| 04:38:04.16 | Kristina Feller | I think for the initial cut, it needs to be the arborist whose report we were relying upon. |
| 04:38:12.73 | Richard Graef | Well, sure, yeah. |
| 04:38:18.33 | Richard Graef | Okay, maybe it doesn't matter. |
| 04:38:20.39 | Kristina Feller | Is everyone okay with that? |
| 04:38:22.26 | Nastassya Saad | Yeah, I agree we're making our decision based on that pretty much. So that makes sense. |
| 04:38:30.55 | Kristina Feller | Okay, Director Whalen and Larissa, do you have the modifications that you need for for this particular project. Thank you. |
| 04:38:46.29 | Director Whalen | I think so. I'll just kind of repeat back the bullet points here. I don't have it. fully fashioned into form yet, but that we want to make sure that we reference the um, the trees that are in the arborist report that are recommended to be trimmed, the coastline of oak and the Monterey cypress. We are adding in requirements that those heights be maintained. as well to the heights that are indicated in the Arborest Report. The maintenance of that will be evenly split between the two parties. the original, the work to do the the original work and then the future work. will be the process that we've outlined in the draft resolution. with the exception that Multiple beds can be obtained, must be obtained, not three. I think I heard that from the commission. Looking for consensus. I'm not seeing any no's. and that the two parties will split evenly the cost of the work and that the arborist on record will be on site while the work is performed and that will also be split between the two parties. |
| 04:40:09.39 | Kristina Feller | Right. Okay. Do I have emotion? |
| 04:40:14.25 | Jeffery Luxenberg | So moved. |
| 04:40:16.00 | Kristina Feller | Second. |
| 04:40:18.08 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I'll second. |
| 04:40:19.14 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Thank you. Director Whelan, could you call the wrong? |
| 04:40:24.59 | Director Whalen | Commissioner Pierce. Yes. Michelle Pacansky- We share some. Yes. For sure, Luxembourg. |
| 04:40:31.56 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yes. |
| 04:40:32.24 | Director Whalen | Nice chair, girl. |
| 04:40:33.30 | Director Whelan | Thank you. |
| 04:40:33.32 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yeah. |
| 04:40:33.87 | Director Whalen | Perfella. |
| 04:40:34.40 | Director Whelan | Thank you. |
| 04:40:34.73 | Kristina Feller | Yes. |
| 04:40:35.42 | Director Whelan | and carries five zero. |
| 04:40:37.10 | Kristina Feller | Right, thank you very much. Could you read the next item on our agenda this evening? |
| 04:40:45.23 | Director Whalen | So our next items on our agendas, agenda this evening are study session items and study sessions are to familiarize the commissioners and public with proposals under review. and provide an opportunity to ask questions and provide comments. study session meeting is open to the public and will include a public comment period and no decisions or actions on the requested entitlements will be taken at the study session. The first item is 5A, which was a request for a study session for a design review permit and variance at 23 Wolfback Ridge Road. is being requested by the applicant to be postponed this evening. And I'd like to request that the chair open up the item for any public comment there might be, and then postpone the item to a future uncertain date. |
| 04:41:32.67 | Kristina Feller | Yes. Yes, I will open open 23 Wolfback Ridge for public comment at this time. And Director Whalen, if you could remind the public how to do so. |
| 04:41:43.94 | Director Whalen | Sure. At this time, if you'd like to make a comment about this study session item that will be postpone this evening, 23 Wolfback Ridge. Please raise your hand in the Zoom application. in the participants list. or press star nine on your phone. You'll have three minutes to speak. Please state your name for the record. I'm not seeing any hands raised at this moment. |
| 04:42:08.17 | Kristina Feller | No, I'm not. Let's give it a second. |
| 04:42:14.55 | Kristina Feller | No, I'm not seeing any hands. At this time, I will close public comment. And shall I make a motion to postpone this item to a date uncertain? once the applicant has identified this or how would you like me to do that directly? |
| 04:42:31.00 | Director Whalen | I don't think we need a motion because it's a study session and we're not, we're not continuing it to a date certain. So, |
| 04:42:38.01 | Kristina Feller | All right, thank you very much. Thank you. Okay. Then let's move on to our next item on the agenda. |
| 04:42:46.58 | Director Whalen | Great. So this is our last item on the agenda, and it's a study session for a design review permit and a conditional use permit. at 74 Liberty Shipway. And we have contract planner, Trisha Stevens, this evening giving the staff Welcome, Trisha. |
| 04:43:12.53 | Trisha Stevens | Good evening members of the commission. My name is Trisha Stevens and I have here with me tonight. members of the DUDEC team who prepared the initial study mitigated neglect There's Kara Lawrence and Wright, Steven Peterson, Dennis Pascua, and Mladen Popovic. And they're here to. Absolutely. |
| 04:43:37.02 | Director Whalen | I'm so sorry to interrupt you there. I'm so sorry. I see my share graph raising his hand here. So let's let him speak. |
| 04:43:44.68 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 04:43:45.72 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 04:43:45.96 | Richard Graef | Sorry. Um, My understanding is that I because I'm a next door neighbor I'm going to recuse myself. from best part of the, uh, the chairing this evening or the And so at what point do I do that and how do I do it and what should I do and what should I not do? |
| 04:44:11.19 | Director Whalen | Thank you, Vice Chair Graf. So at this point, what we'll do is, as we're still in discussions with you about this potential conflict, take you off video. And we'll put you on mute and you're welcome to listen to the conversation with a couple of you. |
| 04:44:32.72 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Right. |
| 04:44:33.75 | Director Whalen | And you can also participate as a member of the public if you would like. |
| 04:44:37.92 | Richard Graef | Okay, so you're going to mute me and uh, turn off my camera. |
| 04:44:45.14 | Director Whalen | We will. |
| 04:44:45.33 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 04:44:46.15 | Director Whalen | Yes, and then when the item is over, we will request to unmute you and start your video. |
| 04:44:49.76 | Jeffery Luxenberg | and, |
| 04:44:52.08 | Director Whalen | Okay, great. Thanks. |
| 04:44:58.49 | Trisha Stevens | Okay, I won't repeat the purpose of the study session, but I do want to point out that There's a mitigated negative declaration that's under review. It's still in the review period. Written comments are due on March 19th by five o'clock. And Your commission received a number of comments since the staff report was released. You have new comments from Gala League Community Association. There's a response from the applicant. And there's a letter from Mr. Bruce and then a letter from Mr. Kowalski. So we had prepared the prerecorded pre-recorded version that was the full presentation. And so I'm just going to give a very short presentation. I hope that is acceptable to the commission. |
| 04:46:13.40 | Trisha Stevens | I CAN'T. |
| 04:46:13.65 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 04:46:13.80 | Trisha Stevens | Thank you. |
| 04:46:13.90 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 04:46:14.02 | Trisha Stevens | I see a yes. Thank you. |
| 04:46:14.97 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. Yes, thank you. |
| 04:46:21.56 | Trisha Stevens | Just a few notes on the project site. It's close to a four acre site at the end of Liberty Shipway. And it's designated for industrial and waterfront uses in the Marin ship. specific plan and the overlay zone and it currently has dry storage on it and it's adjacent to the the trail adjacent to the Mona Marsh area and the Schumacher beach. And to the north is the Schumacher marina. |
| 04:47:03.72 | Trisha Stevens | And the proposed project is design review and a conditional use permit. for three two-story buildings totaling A 50,000 square feet there 32 feet in height, it would have marine industrial and commercial warehouse medical services and. Building see would have a restaurant with up to 20 people and that's the subject of the conditional use permit. |
| 04:47:36.51 | Trisha Stevens | Here are a few renderings of the proposed buildings. You can see buildings A, B, and C, this is a view from the beach area. I'm There's a variety of roof slopes and metal construction with a variety of different materials, translucent panels and so forth. So just a real quick summary of the conclusions from the staff report. Based on the analysis so far, staff finds that the project is consistent with the 1995 general plan as well as the new 2020 general plan. It's consistent with the Marin ship specific plan, as well as the Marin overlay district and the development standards contained therein. The project addresses view corridors, and it enhances the bike trail and the beach area with pedestrian access and |
| 04:48:46.20 | Tom Hoover | Mm-hmm. |
| 04:48:47.47 | Trisha Stevens | and also provides on-site public contact. And there is some traffic impacts at the intersection Bridgeway. and marinship and there's proposed traffic mitigation. So that's my brief version of the staff report. I'm happy to answer any questions. And again, Members of the DUDEC team are here as well. |
| 04:49:21.62 | Kristina Feller | Thank you so much, Trisha. Thank you for the abbreviated version. So the pre-recorded version and being a willing participant in our pilot project to see if it was more helpful, the prerecorded. So thank you for that. There's a lot to look at and get through here. I'm not sure. I'd like to ask the commission if they have any particular questions for staff at this time. Commissioner Luxenberg, please. |
| 04:49:49.08 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I have two questions. And again, I appreciate that you sent out the presentation in advance. I thought it was very, very helpful. That was a good approach. My two questions are, The Bay Trail is very narrow. I walk that trail a lot, and especially in the pandemic, it's very hard to pass people. And when you look at the renderings, it looks like it's being widened. And there's also a series of bollards that are on some of the of the on the on the 3D elevations, but there are no, but they're not on the site plan. So I guess my question is, and there are no dimensions. So is that bike path along the water being widened? It needs to be widened, and is it being widened? That's the first question. |
| 04:50:41.61 | Trisha Stevens | I'm not aware that it's actually being widened. I know the project provides three points of pedestrian access and provides the bollards and the and the lighting. But in terms of the trail itself being widened, I'm not aware of that. I could perhaps, have Director Whelan or the applicant help answer that. |
| 04:51:05.18 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Okay, if it's not, it needs to be. So I would recommend that this is a study session that they do that. The second question I have is on the traffic. 706 daily trips. If you assume half go in and half go out, that's 353. trips that are coming in It's a one way in, but the only way out is through the marina parking lot. And they've done a split of those 353 trips of which ones are coming in which way. Because you only can come in one way. And then You come in one way and you go out You all have to go out the other way. But some of them can come in through the marina parking And have they done a split of how many are going to come in one way versus the other way to address the traffic situation with the narrowing of those buildings? |
| 04:52:04.21 | Trisha Stevens | I'm going to see if Dennis or Mladen with Dudek who prepared the traffic portion of the uh, environmental document and see if they can help answer that question, or we might need to take that under advisement. |
| 04:52:23.97 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Okay. Thank you. Those are the questions I have to your fellow. |
| 04:52:28.16 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, excellent questions, Commissioner Luxenberg. Commissioner Pierce, do you have any questions for staff? |
| 04:52:34.35 | Morgan Pierce | They have been answered presently, so thank you. Thank you. |
| 04:52:38.00 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 04:52:38.01 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. |
| 04:52:38.03 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 04:52:38.67 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 04:52:38.77 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 04:52:38.84 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 04:52:40.27 | Nastassya Saad | I do I have a few questions from the from the staff report that I just had a second ago. Thank you for the presentation. I was wondering on. Page 18 of the staff staff report there's a section around small boat temporary tie ups and I was just looking for clarification there because. staff has determined that the temporary boat tie ups are not feasible from what I'm understanding it's due to due to the marsh on the side but it doesn't say that it's uh, excused, I suppose. It's just saying that it's not feasible. So I was wondering just for clarification. on small boat tie-ups if staff is recommending that um, does not need to be in scope purely because it's not feasible. Is it no longer a requirement I think is my question. Um, |
| 04:53:46.34 | Trisha Stevens | The specific plan allows Commission to make an exception. to that requirement and so we're concurring that it's not feasible on this site. I certainly know that that's a significant issue in along the and that there is a goal to try to provide for more of the tie ups, but So far, at least at this point, we haven't figured out a feasible way for this project to contribute to the tie-ups. Okay. |
| 04:54:21.93 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 04:54:22.69 | Trisha Stevens | I'm not sure. |
| 04:54:22.97 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 04:54:23.72 | Trisha Stevens | Thank you. |
| 04:54:23.74 | Nastassya Saad | Okay, thank you for that clarification. And then I also had A question, I think it's on page 19 on traffic and circulation. And I am wondering, I think it's the last question or so of this paragraph. It says the segment adjacent to this building is deteriorated and includes old railroad tracks. And I was wondering if the I'm sorry I have time to research this on my own prior but if the railroad tracks have any historic preservation. because we do have some tracks throughout Sausalito. that are visible. And I was curious to know if that is a something that would be protected could be in the HPC's jurisdiction but. you know offhand? |
| 04:55:21.33 | Trisha Stevens | I don't. We'll have to look into that. I am not aware that it's given any designation, We can look into that a little bit more. |
| 04:55:32.03 | Nastassya Saad | Okay. Thank you for that and the last one I had. was on I can read my own handwriting. Um, page. I believe it was page 20. three. Yes, page 23. And this is, Um, section is this is under the conditionally use permit for the restaurant but I my my question was more around |
| 04:55:58.94 | Kwok Yin Chong | Yeah. |
| 04:56:03.65 | Nastassya Saad | for a traffic study, I suppose, partway towards the bottom of that page. It's saying that two traffic studies were prepared. and they estimate that the completed project will bring 212 to 350 vehicles per day to the combined uses. And unless I'm mistaken I thought I read somewhere else if it's not the staff report but. maybe the declaration that there are 109 reports SPACES BEING. created. And I'm just wondering about the discrepancy about what the traffic study is saying 109 or 108. spaces that are proposed. but a significant amount more on the traffic study that says what it will bring to this, to the area. I didn't know if anyone had a comment on that from staff or from the. from the Dudek team maybe. |
| 04:56:54.17 | Trisha Stevens | Well, there are 108 parking spaces proposed and that's based on the calculation in the zoning ordinance of the required number of parking and It's kind of a different calculation than the traffic generation. But I would also see if anybody from the DUDAC team could. I'm going to go ahead and provide any shed any more light on that. So can, Can we have The Dudek team be unmuted. |
| 04:57:30.39 | Kristina Feller | Well, hold on, Tricia. |
| 04:57:31.35 | Trisha Stevens | You want to do that later? I'm not sure exactly how you'd like to do that. |
| 04:57:35.44 | Kristina Feller | I'm going to go ahead and finish our questions to you. |
| 04:57:37.85 | Trisha Stevens | Okay. Okay, great. |
| 04:57:39.53 | Kristina Feller | And then we will open, we will move to the applicant presentation. But, um, |
| 04:57:47.15 | Director Whalen | I'm sorry to interrupt you. The DUDEC team that Trish is referring to is actually I'm a hired environmental consultant on behalf of staff. So they're staffs consultant. |
| 04:58:01.78 | Kristina Feller | Oh, their staffs consultant. I confused them with the applicants environmental team. |
| 04:58:02.87 | Director Whalen | Yes. Thank you. |
| 04:58:10.62 | Kristina Feller | My apologies. So yes, if you can unmute them. That would be great. if they're here. |
| 04:58:19.24 | Trisha Stevens | Yes, they are here. |
| 04:58:32.42 | Kara Lawrence | Dennis, are you able to answer that? |
| 04:58:34.92 | Dennis Pasqua | a bit more. Yes, okay, hi. My name is Dennis Pasqua. |
| 04:58:38.02 | Kara Lawrence | I love that. |
| 04:58:39.17 | Dennis Pasqua | I am the transportation services manager for Dudek. And we did prepare the traffic analysis for this project. I'm not sure. There were two questions I gathered. related to traffic. The first one was the split of traffic on site. between the one-way and two-way driveways. We did not specifically analyze that, but we did take that into account during our onsite analysis. and determine that there is adequate I'm capacity on those roads to accommodate the traffic. We did do a peak hour analysis at the intersections, the public street intersections, And I can share that You know, we tend to look at traffic operations at a peak hour level as opposed to the daily level. and, uh... right now the daily traffic generation for an a.m. peak hour. is, in the morning it's 41 inbound trips and 18 outbound trips. you would see those 41 inbound trips be split between the two-way roadway and the one-way roadway. I'm not sure. into the site and all 18 outbound trips in the morning would obviously use the two-way outbound at the two way street. In the afternoon, we've got a total of 71 peak hour trips of which 31 would be split inbound between the two streets into the site. And then 40 trips would be all outbound on that single street. out of the site. I'm not sure. So and the other question was daily trips versus the parking space count. Yeah, so there are 108 spaces and we did calculate 706 daily trips for the project. But those 706 trips occur over the day. So not all 706 trips would fill up the parking spaces at one time. And there is, there are, Trisha's correct, there are two. different calculations for daily traffic versus required parking spaces on site. |
| 05:00:58.47 | Nastassya Saad | DIRECTOR HAMPSON- May I ask a clarifying question. It's just I think from what I was referring to specifically was that the project will bring this 212 to 350 vehicles her day. I don't know if I'm misunderstanding you if we're confusing the construction trips with, with what I was, My understanding of reading that is that's just inbound traffic, either people working or coming to use the space. |
| 05:01:22.52 | Unknown | it. |
| 05:01:22.79 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 05:01:23.60 | Nastassya Saad | um, that's what I was looking at the 108 versus the 212 to potentially 350. I don't understand where those other cars are. |
| 05:01:33.74 | Nastassya Saad | even though I understand what you're saying, there's probably not all at one time. where they are supposed to park. |
| 05:01:42.42 | Dennis Pasqua | THE FAMILY. talking about the construction of the project. |
| 05:01:47.16 | Nastassya Saad | I am looking at the staff report on page 23 is and maybe my colleagues can help me, but this is under the conditional use permit for the restaurant. it is calling out applicant submitted the following justification needs for the restaurant. And it's saying that the need for this establishment that's located in the Marine ship blah, blah, blah. They did two traffic studies. And so this does not sound like it is anything related to construction that this sounds like post construction. this site is going to bring 212 to 350 vehicles per day to the combined uses of all three buildings. |
| 05:02:26.22 | Dennis Pasqua | That sounds about right because, yeah, we have a total daily trip generation of 706. So when you divide that by two, since one car generates greenbacks. |
| 05:02:35.37 | Nastassya Saad | One car is going, one car is coming. Okay, thank you. I think I need to. |
| 05:02:36.67 | Dennis Pasqua | HIGH SCHOOL. Thank you. |
| 05:02:38.88 | Nastassya Saad | It just clicked. Yeah. |
| 05:02:40.45 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 05:02:40.87 | Nastassya Saad | Okay. Thank you for that clarification. And then I think... I and I and if you're not the right team then just shut me down but there was something from the mitigated negative declaration. Is that something I can ask you from access and circulation or is that is that not for. |
| 05:02:59.47 | Nastassya Saad | No, that's that's us. |
| 05:03:00.68 | Nastassya Saad | That's you. Okay. May I ask you a question then from Um, from page 10. Let me get there myself quickly. But I think it was saying that there is I think the word pending is what was throwing me off Um, Thank you. Access and circulation, I'm sorry, I'm just getting to myself here. that there is Pending redevelopment of the 60 D Liberty Shipway building. that causes a constraint. So there's a constraint on a one-way portion. um, I'm just, It doesn't seem that the 60 D Liberty ship weighs in scope for this project. And I'm wondering if there's a contingency on access and circulation um, 460D, and what if nothing happens with any redevelopment of that of that building. |
| 05:04:07.73 | Dennis Pasqua | No. From what I understand, this is the one way segment. of Liberty Shipway that goes into the site. There are, there are, are our buildings that THEIR OWNERS. within the So you need 24 feet if you want to have two-way access. |
| 05:04:26.39 | Unknown | Mm-hmm. |
| 05:04:27.05 | Dennis Pasqua | And right now there's 20 feet and 20 feet is minimum is what you need. Minimum for one way access. And that's why that segment of the street has been, Um, design. for this project to be to be to continue to be one way. but however in the future should the buildings be vacated or or reconstructed. THE FAMILY IS A LITTLE there is going to be a requirement of 24 feet. I'm not sure. a whiff left for that roadway segment to eventually become two way. |
| 05:05:01.10 | Nastassya Saad | Okay, so this is all confirming that it's one way until it can become two way, but there's no hazard |
| 05:05:08.83 | Dennis Pasqua | That's correct. |
| 05:05:09.47 | Nastassya Saad | safety or access. Okay. Okay. Thank you. |
| 05:05:12.01 | Dennis Pasqua | And the 20 feet is what's required by the fire department. |
| 05:05:15.35 | Nastassya Saad | Okay, thank you for clarifying that. Thank you. Thank you Chair Feller. Those were all of my questions. |
| 05:05:21.61 | Kristina Feller | Excellent questions. And I'd like to follow on on one of them because I had on my list of questions. the issue with fire life safety. and their circulation and their access. in, have you, looked in detail with that or have you worked with Southern Moon Fire, the police or sheriff? on their access points and their circulation. as well. Thank you. on the traffic study. |
| 05:05:48.47 | Dennis Pasqua | Tricia, if you can help me out. But I understand, when we did our access analysis, um, It was designed we reviewed it as if it was approved and designed approved by city standards, which the fire department would have to sign off on the the design of the access points and the internal design of the streets. |
| 05:06:14.59 | Trisha Stevens | Yes, my understanding the fire district has signed off on the plans and the applicant has provided detailed turning radiuses to make sure that all the drive aisles meet the fire department criteria for getting around the parking lot. So there's there's been quite a bit of work done on that. |
| 05:06:37.24 | Kristina Feller | And sometimes they have to access the beach if there's somebody, you know, there on the pathway. Mm-hmm. |
| 05:06:43.18 | Trisha Stevens | Thank you. |
| 05:06:43.43 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 05:06:44.26 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. that's not being obstructed at all. |
| 05:06:50.40 | Trisha Stevens | From our analysis so far is that the fire district has full access to the beach and the trail area. |
| 05:07:00.85 | Kristina Feller | Okay. And then, you know, in the staff report, you know, in the, um, . I guess matrix that you've put together, the general plan policies. Where have you added friendship specific plan because my understanding is that this application. the 95 general plan and the marineship specific plan apply because it was submitted under those documents. not the 2021. Not that it's not important to see how the 2021 is holding up here, but, but can you confirm that it's the marinship specific plan and, the 95 general plan that prevails here. |
| 05:07:54.04 | Trisha Stevens | Yes, it's my understanding that because this was a complete application THEIR OWN HIGHER. of, in 2020 when the 1995 general plan was in effect that that's the applicable One, in order to determine consistency And the 1995 general plan is very reflective of the Marin ship's Pacific plan. It has very similar policies. I couldn't find anything really of substance that was different. different between the general plan and the specific plan. So we're thinking or finding that The project is compliant with both the 1995 general plan and the specific plan. |
| 05:08:50.97 | Kristina Feller | So because this is a study session, could I just ask that in moving forward, I think it's really important that your matrix identify the 95 and the Marinship specific plan. as sort of the dominant prevailing requirements here I'm not sure. and include the marineship specific plan and any policies or issues underneath that, That is a really important criteria that we just you know, let's just be clear about what we're looking at and what we're approving and make, make sure, um, everything was complying appropriately. That would be helpful. And then I wanted to ask if you've received any comments on the negative declaration yet? |
| 05:09:40.92 | Trisha Stevens | Yes, we have. We received comments from the Galilee, community association. And we also received comments from the applicant in response to the Galilee Community Association And, the Galilee Association, comments relate to the MND. And then we also have comments from Mr. Bruce Huff. And his comments relate to the M&D as well. |
| 05:10:13.39 | Kristina Feller | Did you circulate it to Anybody? outside the community, for instance, the Army Corps, RBRA, BCDC, Um, you know, Bay Wave, anybody like that? |
| 05:10:33.03 | Trisha Stevens | Yes, the project went through the state clearinghouse and was distributed to all the agencies. I might want to ask Cara if she maybe could expand on that process for review by other agencies. |
| 05:10:40.14 | Kwok Yin Chong | Um, |
| 05:10:52.73 | Trisha Stevens | or Steve. |
| 05:11:04.66 | Kristina Feller | are either available. |
| 05:11:06.60 | Trisha Stevens | Yeah, I think they're trying to unmute. |
| 05:11:11.46 | Kristina Feller | Could the Zoom team assist them, please? |
| 05:11:14.85 | Trisha Stevens | Kara and Steven Peterson. |
| 05:11:22.60 | Kristina Feller | Steven, there you go. |
| 05:11:23.96 | Unknown | Kara, you're unmuted as well. Go ahead. |
| 05:11:26.24 | Kara Lawrence | Yes, I've been trying to unmute myself, and I'm not allowed to. Yes, as Tricia said, it was distributed to a variety of state agencies. the Air Resources Board, the Coastal Commission, CDFW, et cetera, et cetera. um, So the answer is yes. all of the relevant agencies. |
| 05:11:48.20 | Kristina Feller | Fantastic. Thank you. Thank you very much, Cara. |
| 05:11:49.31 | Trisha Stevens | Thank you. Yes. And as of this day, we haven't received any agency comments, but there's still a couple more days. |
| 05:11:59.01 | Kara Lawrence | We will note that Caltrans asked a clarifying question, but did not provide further comments. |
| 05:11:59.05 | Trisha Stevens | We're... |
| 05:12:05.36 | Trisha Stevens | Okay. I was gonna say we had two days left, but two days minus about. Six hours. |
| 05:12:12.67 | Kristina Feller | Yes. Exactly. And then I wanted to ask about utilities down in this area and the addition of this type of development to the basic infrastructure, primary infrastructure in the area. Um, Has DPW or anybody commented or reviewed any of this? |
| 05:12:35.85 | Trisha Stevens | Yes, the project has been reviewed several times by Public Works and Engineering and their comments have all been incorporated into the proposed mitigation. When this comes back for hearing, any public works and engineering I think the conditions of approval will be presented to you. There's been, for example, Public Works Director made a number of comments about the traffic circulation that, um, were addressed. To my knowledge, there's not any I'm not sure. known. significant issues with the sewer and the water. I'm not sure. but we'll have conditions of approval to address that. |
| 05:13:20.97 | Kristina Feller | Okay. And has this been, has this project been, or the applicant, consulted with Bay Wave or NOAA or FEMA on any of the modeling that they provide for waterfront properties. specific to sea level rise and subsides. |
| 05:13:45.28 | Trisha Stevens | I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE We appreciate that question. That is something we might need to get back to you on unless Cara unless you can answer that. Need to dig into that a little bit further. |
| 05:13:57.09 | Kara Lawrence | The hydrology and water quality section does touch on flooding on site, but we have not applied any seal level rise modeling. |
| 05:14:03.52 | Trisha Stevens | Thank you. |
| 05:14:08.29 | Kara Lawrence | on site. That was not directed by CEQA or the city. So the answer is no to Noah or rain bay wave sea level rise modeling. |
| 05:14:23.40 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. That's all I had for now, Tricia and Cara and the rest of the team. Thank you. Um, So any other questions from commissioners at this time? No. Okay. Let's go ahead and ask the applicant. I'm sorry, Commissioner Tsai, did you raise your hand? Oh, okay. Okay. Sorry. All right, let's go ahead and ask the applicant to unmute themselves and if the Zoom team can assist and they can provide a presentation to us. That would be fantastic. them. your team will have 15 minutes. to present. And you can split up that time however you'd like between your teammates. and you can leave a little bit of time towards the end. If we ask you questions and interrupt you, that does not count against your time. |
| 05:15:22.90 | Brent McDonald | Thank you, commissioners. Good evening. members of the planning commission. My name is Brent McDonald. I'm a licensed architect and principal of Onderosa Architects. I'd like to first of all thank Tricia Stevens for stepping in as a lead planner after the Part chair of Katie Faulkner, who I worked with for a number of years, and also Lily Whalen is the new Community Development Director at the departure, Danny Castro. I have been working on this since 2015 and the project has a history prior to 2015. As Tricia stated, the project is consistent with the Marinship specific plan and then Tricia has a table in her staff report talking about general plan compliance, which of course, based on the 1995 but We did pay attention to any things that were going to come up in the latest adopted version, which was adopted after we were I'm not sure if you're not after notice was sent about the intent to adopt the mitigated negative act So with that, I think what I'd like to do is get my screen share on that we set up earlier. Oh, I think maybe I have to push it, okay. Let's see here, where are we going here? uh, |
| 05:16:48.30 | Brent McDonald | Let's see, whoops, now I know what's going on. |
| 05:16:57.62 | Brent McDonald | So I think you guys can see me, but now I can't see you. Is that correct? |
| 05:17:02.24 | Kristina Feller | We can't see you, no. |
| 05:17:03.59 | Brent McDonald | Yes, but you can see my presentation piece up here, correct? |
| 05:17:04.01 | Kristina Feller | Yes. |
| 05:17:08.48 | Kristina Feller | Can't see it. |
| 05:17:09.60 | Brent McDonald | Okay. So somebody who's running the, We had it set up and working at six o'clock tonight. Uh... |
| 05:17:18.29 | Kristina Feller | you |
| 05:17:19.01 | Brent McDonald | Thank you. |
| 05:17:19.03 | Kristina Feller | Let me ask the Zoom team if you could please assist or enable Mr. McDonald's screen share. Let's restore whatever time on the clock here for his presentation. and start the comment timer now. Thank you. |
| 05:17:37.88 | Brent McDonald | Okay. Can you see it now? |
| 05:17:39.79 | Kristina Feller | Yes, thank you. |
| 05:17:40.90 | Brent McDonald | Okay, so these are the items we're going to go through. So I've kind of gone through one and two and Then we're going to go into the proposed site design a little bit. Thank you. This is the overall plan. And there was, like Tricia, she mentioned three access points. There's actually five. They have a slightly different function. In 2007, BCDC wanted more penetration and through traffic through the site. They, of course, didn't recognize that this is a intent is to be slightly light industrial and there is some conflict with pedestrian traffic so we've tried to keep everybody on a sidewalk and path, and you can see that things kind of connect from one end to the other, which is a little unusual for the Marin ship. Down on the waterfront, we have a connectivity point that is for launching light type craft, hand carried or sand dollied craft. And then up near the existing Harbor Master building, there's another access point which has a bicycle rack and things like that. Um, In terms of siting of the property, there is some conflicts with BCDC's desire to push buildings to the edge of the property line and engage the shoreline versus the concerns of Galilee. and perhaps the beach goers. So we have tended to push the buildings back BCDC did see this in their sit down meeting of 2017, the only sit down meeting that they have wanted. And we've reached out to them starting in 2016 and lastly in 2020. As I understand it, they are not going to comment further. But, you know, things change, people change. with the amount of time that we're I have been working on this project. The two consistent comments I get is, I can't recall it's been too long or that person is no longer here. you know, things change. Let's see. The project is very compliant with the Marin ship. We studied the views that were required and then even other view opportunities that the Marin Ship Master Plan called windows. The only required viewpoint from the view corridor from the Marin ship is down Mono Street Marsh. And it asks that buildings get set back 60 feet from the property line the buildings exceed that setback you'll see these views j there they're considered desired views and the marineship master plan noted that many of these j views might not get completely through the sites some will only view into the industrial areas you can see This building wasn't here when the Marineship Master Plan was constructed but it ended up being constructed and the views go around it. This is not our project. This is something else. Here was the only J view from the master plan. And in terms of what was previously presented in 2007, there was a building right here that caused some problems with the owner of 30 some problems with the J view. |
| 05:21:19.18 | Unknown | And really. |
| 05:21:19.33 | Brent McDonald | really kind of muck things up. What we've done is orient the buildings along a spine that also has a view, not a requested view from the Marin Ship Master Plan, but a view nonetheless, goes down the main spine and most of the activity is organized along the main spine almost like a urban type environment rather than a office buildings for all kind of thing. And what that allows us to do is concentrate the people activity and the activity in the center and again, give a little respect to Galilee and push things away from them. In terms of views, Galilee will have a view of Mount Tam. It will sneak right through here in the window kind of approach. They also have some other views that come through there. Their little lawn area here should also, I don't know whether these existing buildings will block it or not, but that is the direction of Mount Tam. Dumpy Park, which is not mentioned in the Marinship Master Plan. uh, also has its view and opened up between the buildings there as much as as far as our control has to do with it. This is the view. This is a rendering. And these are the three buildings with green roofs are our buildings. And you can see the marsh, the combo bike pedestrian path, and the landscaping separating uh, make cause allowing separation with Galilee also. of our three buildings, The building that's in front first and foremost is what we call the A building or 70 Liberty Ship. is not an occupied structure. in the upper levels. It's intended to be storage. The lower levels could have storage, but also may have some level of light industry. |
| 05:23:15.43 | Kwok Yin Chong | Thank you. |
| 05:23:22.85 | Brent McDonald | The other thing that Galilee was concerned about was lighting, and we have studied the lighting to a significant degree and when I sat down with GALILEE In 2018, we presented a light fixture that's no longer available because the technology continues to improve. And in the next slide, I will show you the light levels and what we get. Basically, what we're concerned about here is light pollution or light trespass, both from the uphill properties that sit above us and Galilee sitting across. And that deals with sky glow. and light spillage and glare. And today's lights are very, effective, so much effective. If you've ever driven across the Bay Bridge, You see that the roadway somehow is perfectly lit, there's when you pass one of those lights, there's no light spilling over into the bay, spilling behind you because LEDs can control their light much better than any of the lighting technologies of the past. as is consistent with the lighting criteria of, of Sausalito, they're asking for night sky compliant lights and in essence full cutoff. And there's a little diagram that shows you that the lights don't rise above the box of the light. And, that relates to the vertical light distribution In terms of the horizontal light distribution, the Lighting Institute has several different categories, one to five, we'll be utilizing type three, four and five. And five is sort of you have a light and it provides light around the entire perimeter of wherever the fixture is. And that's what we'll be using in the internal portions of the property and in the exterior portions, mainly along Galilee side and The 30 Liberty ship side will use an asymmetrical or front throw type three or type four light. And if we need to control it further, we will end up putting a shield on things. The other thing that's come a long ways in terms of parking lot lighting is they don't stay on all the time. They actually dim down to a very minimal amount after a certain time period that it's all controlled by computer and there is motion sensors to give people safety should you come out of a door and be walking to your car. It picks up the motion sensor and gradually raises the light to a safe level. I WANTED TO TAKE A LOOK AT |
| 05:26:13.80 | Brent McDonald | Here is a foot candle map of the property. And in short, I show you the outside extents of 0.01 foot candles. And a 0.01 foot candle is like a full moon. Well, that basically ends... It begins on the north side of the marsh fence and sort of finishes at the other side of the marsh fence, but stays off of the actual marsh line. running through there. I probably need to work with them a little further because truthfully they have a band here of .01 foot candles, which is the smallest they can measure on their computer. about eight to 10 feet wide. So clearly if you look at LED lights, the fall off is very quick. which is a good thing because what you want is fall off and you want a a coverage within its zone. So these same since Gali was the most concerned and obviously there's people sleeping on boats over there. This shows the the effective coverage. Of these light standards, the same ones exist over here on 30 although I don't think 30 is concerned about lights village as as Galilee. We are going to, one thing that's I think always beautiful in the Marin and Schoonmacher is all of our palm trees that are down there. We will remain with three palm tree types, the canary palm, the medjool date palm, and the Mexican fan palm. |
| 05:27:42.22 | Kwok Yin Chong | Moonlight. |
| 05:27:55.40 | Brent McDonald | Mexican fan palm loves it down there and will thrive no matter what. The medjool is meant to replace the canary palm It would be great if the canary palms could survive, but it's the same thing as the Bay Bridge when they had to replace all of those palm trees at the beginning of the Bay Bridge. The fact of the matter is the canary palms will not survive after a certain amount of time. They get a disease and they just eventually die. So we're replacing them that die with any of the medjool And then I think there's three additional palms being planted There's been some discussion and I'll get to all of the commissioners comments here. I do have an answer for all of them. And I know it's very hard for these other people at Dudek and Tricia to know that all these answers, all these answers actually exist and they haven't been working on the project for five years. Out of the 80s, the Marinship specific plan identified the parcels and came up with circulation and access suggestions, criteria that would basically meet the basic standards of public safety and still deal with the historic structures that were left over from 1945. So you can see, that they always intended to do this loop. And there's, the term has been, How is this happening and what's going to happen in the future? These roadways are all deeded and with wits that will allow two-way traffic. There's easements in place and it's always intended. Really why it does come across the Schoonmacher parking lot These are intended to be uh legitimate roadways with two-way traffic this little building right here is what they call 60d it's owned by another owner but the uh remaining portion of the right-of-way the corner of that building. Should this property to see ever get redeveloped It still has the original buildings, if it ever gets redeveloped. This owner is already required by easement and agreement to remove that portion of the building And and provide the legitimate two-way roadway. We've also set up our plans to accommodate the two-way roadway. Here you can see a little diagram that actually came out of WAM meetings Uh, Thank you. many years ago. uh, you can see that everybody understood the requirements that at this point here, it would switch to a one way and come down to here. Now, in fact, these areas here, we are, making modifications, this little portion right here is actually two-way. And you asked, Chair Keller, Feller asked about the fire apparatus access. I've worked quite a bit with SFMD, Southern Marin Fire District, and both with the upper echelons and the lower echelons. We've done simulated drive-throughs with traffic software that will accommodate their largest apparatus, which is what they call an SU-32, I believe it is. At any rate, this shows the turning. It can go both ways, always forward, because sometimes people say, well, you could 3.8. No. We've got all of our radiuses working so a fire apparatus can drive around this site in both directions, always moving forward. There was a question about access to the beach. There's access to the beach in front of the current Harbor Master building. Our particular access right now What we've shown at Southern Marin is why you can drive around this with... with an ambulance. We have two bullards placed to each one of these. people of the public that may not understand how things are supposed to work, don't drive in and start parking their cars there. So these are the public stalls here. And after hours and weekends, there will be additional public stalls opened up for people to use the beach. Here are some of the more rendered building elevations to complement what Tricia put in her proposal. We've taken a somewhat industrial vocabulary in the initial session. application, you'll see a number of pictures that are sort of the inspiration for this that come from around the Marin ship, the The amount of information is voluminous on this project, so not I didn't put the inspiration pictures in this particular proposal. |
| 05:33:02.56 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 05:33:02.61 | Brent McDonald | And I guess it's a good thing considering it's midnight now. |
| 05:33:02.63 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 05:33:03.10 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 05:33:03.14 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 05:33:05.72 | Kristina Feller | This is gonna make no sense. |
| 05:33:06.11 | Brent McDonald | Thank you. hearing. |
| 05:33:07.98 | Kristina Feller | Mr. McDonough. |
| 05:33:08.96 | Brent McDonald | Yes. |
| 05:33:09.62 | Kristina Feller | Excuse me for interrupting you, because I think we're getting to probably a couple things that um, we'll want the commissioners to possibly ask questions about, cause you're 15 minutes. is up, but I know that we're getting into some of the design issues that I know that we're all quite interested in. I just wanted to pause you for just a second. and ask if the commissioners had any questions for you so far. |
| 05:33:37.16 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I just want to note that those drawings, that three on a page were almost impossible to see. He was trying to describe this and you couldn't really see it. So for the future, when he comes back, you really got to have one drawing blown up. So because it just wasn't visible. |
| 05:33:56.14 | Kristina Feller | Okay, did you have any questions for for the applicants so far. |
| 05:34:02.28 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Not so far, but I wanted to make that point for the future. |
| 05:34:06.69 | Kristina Feller | Absolutely. Commissioner Pierce, did you have any questions so far? |
| 05:34:10.87 | Morgan Pierce | Presently, thank you. |
| 05:34:12.39 | Kristina Feller | Okay, Commissioner Saad, did you have any questions so far? |
| 05:34:15.43 | Morgan Pierce | No, thank you. |
| 05:34:15.97 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Okay. I'm not sure. I know that I certainly have some questions on the architecture here, and I also want to be mindful of time and be fair to everybody. because I know that there'll be some public comment here. We already have some hands that have been raised. Can you just quickly describe some of the materials that we're looking at here and some of the ideas behind sort of the color palette. |
| 05:34:47.10 | Brent McDonald | Uh, So one thing we have done is... Probably metal siding is somewhat of a typical sort of industrial material, but we decided to blend it with what is a concrete panelized or stucco system, which is shown in the lighter gray. And then the green style of wood. is the metal siding. We've got a green roof on the building. There is cow wall translucent panels in several different locations that bring light in. For example, this is the storage building. So rather than have it be sort of just blank walls, we've done put in the translucent panels which will still be work well with the with the storage use here. On the other side, the side that faces Galilee, there's sort of an element about this size that is a large trellis, vertical trellis. that will be planted. Of course, it's in the drawings that were in your package. You guys have a package of all of the drawings. So I didn't repeat all that here. I can bring it up if we want to look at specifics. um let's see uh then uh this building up here uh has uh sort of a uh a flagpole system uh that's similar to the halyards and main mask of boats, trying to be a little bit nautical. These are also somewhat nautical, these kind of poles and canopy. There also is a number of horizontal sunscreens running around the tops of the windows, particularly buildings near the water will have quite a bit of issues with solar gain. The little motif with some structural steel and downspouts and an angle arm is found around the Marin ship. So that's kind of some of the impotence. On the other side of this is a And again, I didn't want to show all the drawings, I can bring them up, but there's a sort of a gangplank like stairs that runs up to a balcony here that simulates sort of the aluminum gangplanks that you have going to all of our docks that rise and fall with the tide. |
| 05:37:18.93 | Kwok Yin Chong | sort of, |
| 05:37:33.39 | Brent McDonald | I'm not sure if you're |
| 05:37:34.33 | Kristina Feller | Great. Can you also maybe identify in these drawings where First of all, what was the inspiration of the color palette and then Um, If you had where is the exterior lighting on the building, not the parking, but the building. |
| 05:37:55.24 | Brent McDonald | Okay, so these are exterior lights on the buildings. Lower down so not to produce excessive glare to the surrounding properties, but also dealing with each sort of individual tenant. There you see lights here, here, here, here, here. Here, here. |
| 05:38:19.12 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I'm sorry, I can't see when you keep saying here, here, and here. Can you... Your cursor is barely... |
| 05:38:23.49 | Brent McDonald | My cursor is a little small, but you see that. OK, well, I guess when it goes over the picture, it wants to turn to a crosshair. |
| 05:38:32.91 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Can you zoom in? |
| 05:38:34.27 | Brent McDonald | I think I can, yeah. |
| 05:38:36.10 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Mm-hmm. |
| 05:38:36.49 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 05:38:42.21 | Brent McDonald | So these guys right above the doors, Let's see, so if I drag this cursor down See that black crosshair? |
| 05:38:53.78 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yeah, I see it now. |
| 05:38:53.92 | Brent McDonald | Thank you. Yeah, okay, so that is a door system. a roll-up door system to allow people direct access to a space that could be storage or could be some kind of manufacturing. Is there |
| 05:39:06.86 | Morgan Pierce | Is there a canopy above that door? |
| 05:39:08.77 | Brent McDonald | So, thank you. |
| 05:39:09.22 | Morgan Pierce | I'm sure everyone wants to. |
| 05:39:09.24 | Brent McDonald | the canopy above that door, that's |
| 05:39:11.57 | Morgan Pierce | Correct. |
| 05:39:11.92 | Brent McDonald | Thank you. |
| 05:39:12.29 | Morgan Pierce | And so does the light then reflect onto the top of the canopy and bounce upwards? |
| 05:39:18.01 | Brent McDonald | This is a trellis that's gapped off the wall. There's probably the shadow isn't correct, but the light actually comes down. |
| 05:39:25.98 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. Like that? |
| 05:39:31.60 | Brent McDonald | Thank you. |
| 05:39:31.62 | Kristina Feller | And how do you get into those garage areas? It looks like the parking is blocking it. |
| 05:39:31.63 | Brent McDonald | And have |
| 05:39:37.25 | Brent McDonald | No, these have Uh... I could bring up the plan, but there is a There's concrete portion in front. This A building has a 40 by 40 sort of triangular plaza, for lack of a better term, in front of it. On the other side, you might say, yeah, the roadway is right next door. all of the Rolled up doors have have access to either a sidewalk or the roadway when they're near a roadway they have roll I have a five foot sidewalk with a rolled curb that goes out. They're also not so much in this building, it can be, but in the B building, You have a similar door system that has, it's still roll up, but it's glass and is meant to be more of an occupied space. So the man door here is how you get into here. And then you bring things in and out of the larger door. and things that can come in and out, could be a woodworker shop, could be a sail maker, could be somebody renovating boats, et cetera, et cetera. Thank you. |
| 05:40:55.31 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 05:40:55.40 | Brent McDonald | Thank you. |
| 05:40:55.43 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Is this the B building? I'm sorry. Could it? |
| 05:40:58.25 | Brent McDonald | No, this is the A building. |
| 05:41:00.16 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Because it has a B or something on the Or the 84, is that a B? |
| 05:41:06.86 | Brent McDonald | I'm not. Yeah, and I think that that's a mistake of the renderer. |
| 05:41:10.94 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Okay, so this is the A building. |
| 05:41:13.64 | Brent McDonald | Yeah, and I don't know why it's got 84 on it, because that's none of the addresses, but it does. You're correct. |
| 05:41:20.92 | Jeffery Luxenberg | So I'm looking at the floor plan on my screen to the right. I mean, the site plan, and I don't see how you get into the those that parking blocks those doors how do you get in there Okay. |
| 05:41:37.15 | Brent McDonald | So |
| 05:41:50.19 | Brent McDonald | So the areas we're talking here is a large area apron here where you can go in and out of these doors these doors are here here. here, here, |
| 05:42:04.79 | Kristina Feller | I'm not seeing what you're feeling. All right. |
| 05:42:05.41 | Brent McDonald | All right, I'll send in. |
| 05:42:25.49 | Trisha Stevens | Mm-hmm. Brent, if you go back to the site plan, I think it shows pretty clearly on the site plan. |
| 05:42:33.38 | Brent McDonald | So these are the doors right there. Each one of them has this sort of dashed line over the top Thank you. |
| 05:42:41.15 | Kristina Feller | I think we're looking at something different than what you're looking at. |
| 05:42:44.58 | Brent McDonald | This is the A building right here. |
| 05:42:45.24 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 05:42:45.27 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 05:42:45.32 | Jeffery Luxenberg | to get a little bit of a |
| 05:42:45.34 | Unknown | and they say, |
| 05:42:45.59 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 05:42:48.34 | Brent McDonald | And we were just looking at this front. |
| 05:42:51.97 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I don't know what the this is. You keep saying this. We're not seeing this. |
| 05:42:55.55 | Brent McDonald | Okay. So where my cursor is right here, |
| 05:42:59.36 | Kristina Feller | I think you are looking at a different screen than what we have here. We're still looking at your rendering. |
| 05:42:59.47 | Brent McDonald | I see. |
| 05:43:05.52 | Brent McDonald | Oh. why I thought I could drag on |
| 05:43:07.92 | Unknown | I'm going to get to the |
| 05:43:09.94 | Brent McDonald | a new image and it would, Take it, huh? Does this now give you the site plan? |
| 05:43:16.86 | Trisha Stevens | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 05:43:17.56 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 05:43:17.57 | Trisha Stevens | No. |
| 05:43:17.64 | Brent McDonald | No. |
| 05:43:18.96 | Trisha Stevens | Yeah, Bryn, I think if you just scroll back up, to the site plan. |
| 05:43:24.31 | Brent McDonald | Okay, we can do that. |
| 05:43:26.82 | Trisha Stevens | that might show it. All right. |
| 05:43:28.66 | Brent McDonald | Thank you. |
| 05:43:29.22 | Kristina Feller | I guess you stop sharing your screen and then reshare it because something's happening here. Okay. |
| 05:43:38.38 | Brent McDonald | Well, if the image came back up, |
| 05:43:42.33 | Kristina Feller | There, what is that? |
| 05:43:43.71 | Brent McDonald | Okay, so these are the circulation ones, and we can actually go and zoom in down here. We'll have a site plan. |
| 05:44:01.92 | Brent McDonald | So... on this side. there is one, two, three, four roll-up doors and this is a rolled curve. So you can go in and out of these spaces directly the when you have two roll-up doors here. These people, the tenant here controls these spaces, so he can actually go in and out should he so desire. And that's probably what would happen with these. They haven't really thought it through to that level. And in fact, the building isn't tentative yet. So, but that was the concept here. And as I recall now in the conversations, that it's correct that these somehow you have to get access into the door should this tenant need it. If the tenant needs it, the tenant will be assigned spaces. The tenant on this side does not need to be assigned spaces because there's a five-foot walk with a rolled curb that allows them to roll things in and out as they need to. Um, |
| 05:45:06.15 | Morgan Pierce | They allowed to stop on that roadway? to load and unload |
| 05:45:12.12 | Brent McDonald | they'll be able to drive into their space. And that's just, as you see in most light industrial spaces, people drive right in. Thank you. All right. Yeah. There's a variety of spaces in a variety of types and you bring up all kinds of operational good questions. that frankly need to be controlled at the time of tenet. The Southern Marin is very concerned that we red stripe things and that people don't park, that you don't get, you know, three cars parked in the middle of here and have an emergency. Obviously, that can't happen. So there are stalls immediately across. I don't know the operational requirements of the people that are using this. You wouldn't know that until you had a tenant, but they may need to get their stalls marked and they might come in and come across, but they can also drive in. These are legitimate rolled up doors. either either eight or either 10 or 12 feet wide. by 10 feet high, I mean, you can basically take a step cargo van in So. Thank you. |
| 05:46:13.39 | Jeffery Luxenberg | But the other side, you can't access those. You've got curb stings. |
| 05:46:13.41 | Brent McDonald | Thank you. |
| 05:46:17.51 | Brent McDonald | These here, you cannot drive into these. And so therefore a tenant who needs to be driving in and out Not every tenant is going to need to drive in and out of their space. So that's sort of a tenanting operational issue. |
| 05:46:30.52 | Jeffery Luxenberg | But you have curb stops, so even if- Curb stops. |
| 05:46:34.03 | Brent McDonald | That's correct. |
| 05:46:35.09 | Jeffery Luxenberg | So even if they have those spaces, they wouldn't have access to those doors. |
| 05:46:36.02 | Brent McDonald | Not on all. |
| 05:46:40.26 | Brent McDonald | They would not have access to those doors. No, that's correct. |
| 05:46:43.51 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. So that's a functional problem that you need to recognize. |
| 05:46:45.79 | Brent McDonald | Well, it's not really a functional problem. The goal is to have a variety of spaces with a variety of needs. for one, The tenant can occupy all the way through this space. So he can actually come right in and he can go right through. |
| 05:47:01.84 | Jeffery Luxenberg | So why even put the doors on the other side if they're not good? |
| 05:47:04.66 | Brent McDonald | Again, it's about creating a variety of spaces to allow a variety of tenants. Not every tenant needs to drive a truck into their house. into their stall. |
| 05:47:21.08 | Jeffery Luxenberg | OK, just doesn't seem very functional. Doesn't make any sense. |
| 05:47:24.52 | Brent McDonald | Well, so what you're really saying is that this, if somebody takes this corner, They can't be have any kind of a operational requirement that requires them to drive a truck into access the interior of their space. That's absolutely correct. |
| 05:47:40.84 | Jeffery Luxenberg | We're looking at the architectural aesthetic of it. And if you have doors that you can't drive into, why do you need large doors like that? |
| 05:47:51.28 | Kristina Feller | Or maybe not. |
| 05:47:51.88 | Brent McDonald | Valid, valid point. |
| 05:47:55.01 | Kristina Feller | Yeah. And the other question is if, if you're not driving in those doors, then I'm assuming you're loading in and out or doing something like that. And you just have regular parking, Stalls. |
| 05:48:07.16 | Brent McDonald | Well, so for example, a guy can back up right here. A truck loading is right here. |
| 05:48:10.61 | Kristina Feller | Yeah. |
| 05:48:12.80 | Brent McDonald | You can get right into those. |
| 05:48:12.85 | Kristina Feller | Hold on, Bernie. Can I finish the question? you've got some areas here where you have handicapped parking right by those entryways. And if you have to be loading, there's nowhere around there other than to take up a handicap space to, to load. So, I mean, I'm not sure how this really works. |
| 05:48:49.91 | Kristina Feller | Commissioners, do you have any other questions for the applicants? |
| 05:48:53.15 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I want to ask the question since he has this plan of that pedestrian what bike path is very congested now it's used all you know. and all daylight hours, there's lots of people on it, and it's not wide enough now. Are you intending to widen it? I don't see any dimensions on it. Okay. |
| 05:49:11.69 | Unknown | It's more |
| 05:49:12.99 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Your plans, your illustration plans show bollards and a much wider path. in your other drawings, but this plan doesn't look like it's showing the wider path and it needs to be wider. |
| 05:49:29.24 | Brent McDonald | Okay, well, we'll take that under advisement. I am a cyclist. I cycle to every meeting that I have, both with the city of Sausalito and with Schoonmaker Marina. So I'm aware of the path. I'm aware of its function. The bollards you're looking at are right there and there. And then there is some bullards that will be aligned in the landscaping. the path, the width of the path. |
| 05:49:50.02 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Can I interrupt you? The ballards that you show are on the other side of the path on your illustration. They're on the water side of the pit. |
| 05:50:00.07 | Brent McDonald | Those are existing. |
| 05:50:02.62 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Those are... |
| 05:50:03.99 | Brent McDonald | Those are... you're well we have to get to a different site plan but you're talking about up by the harbormaster building in the beach |
| 05:50:10.60 | Jeffery Luxenberg | No, no, no. I'm talking about on your illustration that shows this this long from the marsh, across the marsh, you have a series of bollards shown in your illustrations. Okay, so you are- Marsh side of the thing. I don't know why they're there even, but I mean- |
| 05:50:23.23 | Brent McDonald | So you know. |
| 05:50:28.00 | Brent McDonald | You're talking about the the illustrations in, uh, Tricia's presentation there. |
| 05:50:35.63 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I don't know, it was in the MND or whatever it was. I assume those are yours. I mean... Wouldn't they have used your illustrations? I don't know. |
| 05:50:49.43 | Brent McDonald | I don't know. Okay, let's just get that. Let's just stay on point. Okay, so what is the deal with the existing bike pedestrian path? |
| 05:50:49.48 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I don't know. |
| 05:50:57.48 | Brent McDonald | It is eight feet wide as was requested in the original Marin Ship Master Plan. The current proposal is not to alter the path. If that's something you feel strongly about, we'll take it under advisor. It's I have to. |
| 05:51:11.27 | Jeffery Luxenberg | You're saying you're currently eight feet wide? |
| 05:51:14.21 | Brent McDonald | It's currently eight feet wide. The pavement? |
| 05:51:17.04 | Jeffery Luxenberg | And The pavement eight feet wide. |
| 05:51:20.13 | Brent McDonald | if the pavement is eight feet wide, I believe it is eight feet wide and that's what was mandated in the Marin Ship Master Plan. |
| 05:51:26.51 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I don't think it is, but I'll go remeasure it. But given the pandemic, you need six feet and you can't get six feet on the path so if it's eight feet, I'm shot. |
| 05:51:36.48 | Brent McDonald | Well, I haven't taken a tape measure out there myself, but I have scaled it in the survey drawings. And I use the path all the time. That's how I get down to the site. |
| 05:51:50.81 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Let me just clarify, you're going to say you're going to make sure it's eight feet wide. If it's not eight feet wide, you'll build it to be eight feet wide. |
| 05:51:54.30 | Brent McDonald | Yes. If it's not eight feet wide, it's not in compliance with what they've agreed to in the Marin Ship Master Plan. So I think that that's fair enough to ask that it'd be eight feet wide. Okay. |
| 05:52:10.64 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Do the commissioners have any more questions for the applicant if it's time |
| 05:52:19.36 | Kristina Feller | Nope. Okay. All right, let's go ahead and thank you, Mr. Donald. Let's open this up for public comment. I would like to ask Director Whelan to remind the public how to do so. I know we already have a bunch of hands raised in the audience. Um, And I'm going to take those in order, but, um, director Whelan, do you want to remind people just in case they might be struggling? |
| 05:52:51.93 | Director Whalen | Yes, thank you. And thanks to everyone hanging on. here at this late hour. This, again, is a study session. Just want to remind everyone that no action will be taken this evening. And we appreciate you providing public participation right now. You'll have three minutes to provide your public participation and If you'd like to make a comment, please raise your hand now on the Zoom application. You go to the participants list Raise your hand. You're on a phone, you press star nine. And please state your name before that. beginning your comments for the record. and we will allow you to unmute yourself and start your video. So thanks for your patience. |
| 05:53:32.67 | Kristina Feller | Great, thank you, Director Whelan. Okay, Vicki Nichols, welcome this evening. You have three minutes for public comment. |
| 05:53:42.23 | Vicki Nichols | Thank you, Chair Feller. I'd first of all like to just say that I hope that as I believe is standard, is that all the questions that were asked tonight with these long answers will be supplied again in writing. It's a shame that these substantive answers when asked were not applied and put in this document. It would have helped all of us when we were reviewing this document for adequacy So that's a general comment. I'd like to talk about just specific, and I'm gonna be writing more basic comments because there's two more days. But the issue of the Bay Trail, the way that it's portrayed and analyzed in this document, this is not the San Francisco Bay Trail. The pathway that, Jeremy was just speaking about is a pathway that's required by BCDC to provide public access. I spoke with BCDC today. I'm very aware of this. It has nothing to do with the Bay Trail. I looked at the Bay Trail. The Bay Trail is near Bridgeway and it's noticed as on map 25. So that's a big error in just the way that we're even presenting this project. um, THE There's a couple of things. I want to know how it was analyzed that there's going to be 84 jobs developed out of this site when you can't say what jobs. or what uses are going in certain buildings. I guess what I'm saying is I feel that this analysis has been very light for the inclusion of three huge buildings in an area that we know is gonna be subject to sea level rise, I wanna talk about the impermeability of a new area that's gonna have 106 or eight parking spaces adjacent to a marsh. When you tell me that you're going to use mixed up standards, of course you're going to use those. That's a mitigation, but you're required to use those. That's not an analysis. What is the analysis about the runoff? There must be calculations. So I'm, I'm disappointed in a lot of these factors. I'm going to put a lot of this in writing. but I believe that this document is inadequate I can tell you that this applicant has been conditioned in 1985 to be taking care of mono marsh. which is listed in here as a city easement It was a condition of their approval for that beach And then they go on to say that their native plants haven't been able to be there. It's because they haven't been maintained. They're responsible for that fence. They're responsible for the vegetation. So if nothing else goes forward, there needs to be conditions that they are already responsible for. on their site before anything in addition is granted here. When someone says it's not feasible to do tie-ups, it's not feasible to do a lot of things, but you need to say why it isn't feasible. There's actually... |
| 05:56:55.97 | Kristina Feller | THERE'S A |
| 05:56:57.01 | Vicki Nichols | Okay, so I'm done. Thank you. Very disappointed. |
| 05:57:00.92 | Kristina Feller | Thank you very much Vicki for commenting this evening and staying on so late. Tom Hoover Welcome this evening. You have three minutes for public comment. |
| 05:57:15.03 | Tom Hoover | crying again. Can you hear me now? |
| 05:57:17.79 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 05:57:17.81 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yes. |
| 05:57:18.64 | Tom Hoover | Okay, you can't see me, but that's okay. So. Hi, my name is Tom Hoover. And thank you, honorable commissioners and everybody else too. I live at Galilee Harbor. But here, I am speaking for myself as a Sausalito who has lived and worked in Sausalito and its Richardson Bay waterfront for a full Jewish jubilee now, over 52 years. I have served on the former Landmarks Board and helped to create the Landmarks List and Documentations. I'm a lifetime member of the Historical Society for 40 years now. and served as assistant director in the past and on the board now. not now, but on the board and participate still as an ambassador. So I want to make a few observations about my feelings on this latest presentation. for I feel they are shared by a wider audience than my small self. Firstly, I see a disjunct on the MIG Consultants website where they make awesomely laudable claims. about weaving streets into nature. So the waterfront path there, that is not a very good weaving into nature as far as I'm concerned. And they also say, we build conclusive communities that support human development. I don't feel that that's really fulfilled here. And lastly, they asked, What if a community What if communities did the planning? Okay. The Schoonmaker presentations over the years, three or four in the last 15 or so, have not been with community involved They have tried to fulfill the letter of the law but there's no real community input. And they've been rejected and or withdrawn because they've left community ascent over the years. I would like to... suggest that their project might have been completed a long time ago if the community had actually been involved. Community involvement would have come up with the project. that enhances Saucellino on the waterfront and not deprive them or their legitimate profits over the years. I feel the project is still outsized and misplaced and will adversely affect Sausalito and its vulnerable waterfront environments, plural. The project should not be approved if there are feasible alternatives. One is to move back and scale down the monster building on the point. The small cafe for Le Garage is a lovely idea, but not that huge tall building. However, If the community were involved with workers, artists, local architects, hillside people, the buildings could be redesigned and moved back and fit in and be useful and have affordable workspace as a priority and still make money. In this short time allowed, I note there should be a toxicity map prepared for earlier projects have found surprises. Also, In the way too short time for the literally hundreds of pages, Vicky touched on part of this, for informed citizens to read through and the insufficient and untimely public noticing is a community concern. and illegal. I want to note that the visuals are actually quite misleading. You guys have shown some of that. concerning sightlines and perspectives, and to my mind, do not accurately reflect the real world appearance. Lastly, any mitigations need to be enforced by the city and not neglected as in the past. We were talking about that. I'm taking you around the waterfront trail. I'm almost done. Last sentence. in the past and up till now. where they've been neglected and not enforced. Thank you. |
| 06:00:39.30 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Mr. Hoover. Thank you very much for staying on so late as well. Our next speaker is ETC. Welcome. If you could state your name. Welcome this evening. You have three minutes for public comments. |
| 06:00:55.50 | Unknown | Yes, hi, I'm Diane Poslowski, the Director of Environmental Traveling Companions, or ETC. And we are a nonprofit organization that's 49 years old but we have been we've had a seek hiking program for 37 years and operated at a Schoonmaker Marina I'm a Sausalito resident and have been for 28 years now. And we mostly provide outdoor adventure, in this instance, sea kayaking and environmental education programming for underrepresented youth. and people of all ages with disabilities. And I just wanna say it's been pretty awesome to have this program in Sausalito. We were probably the first organization to provide accessible whitewater programs and sea kayaking programs in the nation. So we're proud to be in Sausalito and hope Sausalito is proud to have us here. We're a volunteer-based organization. We have over 100 volunteers who help run our programs as well as a paid staff. we've been based out of Schoonmaker Marina almost the whole time, at least the sea kayaking program. We have partnerships with state parks, with the coastal conservancy. with the Department of Boating and Waterways, Sea Tracks, and a lot of individual donors support us, as well as Schoonmaker Marina. And they've given us a really reasonable rent over the years to make it feasible for us to be there. We operate out of containers back in the yard now. which have been donated by Mattson Navigation And overall, We've been happy tenants. of Schoonmaker, Marina. and use the beach there and I think you know I wish I had time to show you pictures because you know they're they're worth a lot i'm sorry i'm really tired right now to be super articulate I can't believe you guys i'm really impressed by your dedication. Um, So, You know, would we want to be a part of this? I can't really speak to a lot of the different details and nuances of this project, frankly. it's hard to get a total sense of it without knowing who all is gonna be there. I think they mentioned us as a possibility in building C and we would be if we could get a long term lease and it was affordable. we'd love to to stay in this location, whether it's in containers or in a building. And I think we have a lot to offer the community. And we're just really proud to be partners with Sausalito and all the people that support us. I don't know if there's any questions of me, but Yeah, just really, really appreciate that we're able to offer this program. And it's pretty, it changes lives, like all the time. And we can't wait to get back into. to swing after COVID. |
| 06:03:59.12 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Thank you very much, Diane. And thank you for staying in here so late with us this evening. Our next speaker is Doreen Gunard. Welcome this evening. You have three minutes for public comment. |
| 06:04:16.75 | Doreen Gunnar | Hello, my name is Doreen Gunnar. I have been living here at Galilee Harbor for 27 years I've been a member. And, um, AND I, want to. introduce our community to THE FAMILY. to you, the commissioners, because we are the only. low-income, family community in Sausalito. We are 80% low income. We are the densest community of low income families in Sausalito. Um, This matters to us. This is the adjacent property to us. And thus we are concerned and And we feel that it is our right to be concerned as any other property owner. because we do own our property here at Galley Harbor. And we feel like we are not in a privileged position as as the architect indicated in his response letter to us, In fact, WE, are the poor people. And we're willing to say that because it's our reality. Okay. And so, I don't want our voice to be diminished. because we live on boats. And I want you all to understand THAT THIS IS THIS IS OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. And thus, what we have to say and our opinions about and our concerns are legitimate, as legitimate as anybody up on the Hill. when they have their neighbors as we heard earlier tonight, having issues. So we are just trying to, we're not trying to be obnoxious here to our neighbors. We are just trying to get our concerns out to them and to help them understand that We did sit down with them. What was it? It was 2017 the last time we had a conversation about this issue. We had no idea that it had gotten this far and it was about to come before the city. They did not tell us. So I just want you all to understand that we were caught a little bit surprised by this project popping up right now in the middle of a pandemic. And I have one question. The traffic study that Dudek talked about When did they do it? Did they do it? in 2020. which has been basically a shutdown. And count cars then? When did they do this study? I'm just curious because it wasn't clear. from what he said. And there's a lot of things that aren't clear about this. It really feels like there needs to be a lot more study before we can go further. And I thank you very much for your time. |
| 06:07:14.68 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Ms. Zunar, thank you very much for your comments and for, again, hanging in with us this late. on a Wednesday evening or unless it's, yep. It's well. Thursday morning, early after midnight. So thank you. Thank you. |
| 06:07:30.05 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 06:07:30.10 | Doreen Gunnar | Thank you. |
| 06:07:30.42 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 06:07:31.62 | Kristina Feller | Our next speaker is Craig Merrilies. Welcome. You have three minutes for public comment. |
| 06:07:41.24 | Unknown | Thank you, Commissioners. Am I coming through loud and clear? |
| 06:07:44.78 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 06:07:44.80 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yes. |
| 06:07:45.70 | Unknown | Great, thank you. Um, I am a resident of the north end of Marin ship. Um, And wanted to throw a shout out and support to the last speaker who raised the point that adequate participation and notice are really so important in this process. I think we've gotten off to a shaky start Um, Especially with our neighbors at Galilee, not getting the notice that they are really any citizens of Sausalito were entitled to. And I guess there was some kind of snafu at the city level with notification. But there was also a failure to really post the notice along the walkway where Commissioner Luxembourg has I think done a good job of pointing out how vital that walkway and bikeway is and how many people pass by there that I think would like to have a say and like to participate in be involved in this process. To post a notice there so everyone could see it would be a good start. I really think that kind of notice will help. Bo Sier. the proponent of the project as well as the folks in the city. So anything we can do to improve the notice including holding our hearings sometime earlier than 1230 at night. I know you have a hard cutoff at 10 o'clock, at least that's your intention. And I know you made every effort to try and move things along and you have a long agenda, we, we, can't honestly pat ourselves on the back and saying we're doing the best job we can in terms of public participation if we're holding our meetings after midnight on an important topic like this. So in a constructive way, I wanted to suggest the possibility of the Planning Commission sponsoring a Saturday late morning or afternoon workshop so that people could really participate in a scale and in a manner that would be effective for such an important project. I think that would benefit all concerned here tonight. So thank you very much for all your work, and I'll leave a little time on the clock. |
| 06:10:16.59 | Kristina Feller | Thank you very much, thank you for, for, thing on for so long. Um, Let's see, our next speaker is John DeRay. Welcome. You have three minutes for public comment. |
| 06:10:39.21 | Kristina Feller | Zoom team, can we help John DeRay unmute himself? |
| 06:10:44.44 | Unknown | Can you hear me? |
| 06:10:45.55 | Kristina Feller | There we go. |
| 06:10:46.34 | Unknown | Okay. Thank you so much for taking my comment at this late hour. um, So I'm John Durea. I was on the general plan advisory committee, spent a lot of time in the marine ship. I don't have any financial interest in the marine ship. But I do think I know a little bit about what's going on down there. It seems to me like the Schoonmaker development seems to want to be compliant with the current zoning code, the Marineship specific plan and the new general plan. And I really do applaud them for that. I hope there sincere in that desire. I think in the past that may have been a little questionable, but I believe they want to move in the right direction. However, without enforcement and other zoning tools, I think |
| 06:11:27.57 | Kwok Yin Chong | I'm not sure. |
| 06:11:32.26 | Unknown | that's going to be difficult. Um, enforcement, I believe here. Um, you know, we have a very large, uh, industrial zone here in this area. And there's not one real light in industry in that immediate area currently, not one manufacturing Um, No boat building activities or boat repair activities. The closest one is over by List Marine. So, When I read this statement. as part of the staff report. The new localized uses of the project will include a variety of maritime businesses, light industry, manufacturing, applied arts, and artisans. I was really happy to hear that. I think that's fantastic. We do need development in the Marin ship. for new maritime and new industrial uses. However, There's no way that that's going to happen. with the current lease rates that we have in Sausalito. The data just came out for Q4 of 2020. Sausalito is more than double the rest of Marin for industrial rates. It's 288 on average. The rest of Marin is $1.26 per square foot, so it's more than double. So to be able to accomplish this is going to be almost impossible. unless some very low-cost construction techniques are used and a real focus has to happen. because like I said, otherwise, we're not going to be able to accomplish this. I know personally of three makers who are looking for shops in the Marineship now. and can't find it. Six months or four or five months ago, we lost Gary Testa. who was paying about a dollar square foot in a warehouse space, that did not even have a bathroom And he was on a month to month lease. He lost his lease because the owner was able to find somebody to pay more than double. Um, and now we have a non-compliant use there. So it's really sad we lost Gary and his 20 jobs and we're just going to see more and more of that until we resolve this problem. Thanks so much for your time. |
| 06:13:46.65 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Mr. Drey. Appreciate you being here so late. Our next speaker is Raylene Gorham. Welcome, and you have three minutes for public comment. |
| 06:14:00.85 | Raylene Gorham | Good morning, everybody. I hope you guys are having a great Thursday. Thank you for your stamina and... Here we go. I am a resident of Gowley Harbor. My background is in architecture. And this is an enormous project that feels like it's being pushed through pretty fast. Here we are after midnight. Galilee only received an update about two weeks ago, and of course we are a cooperative that is self-governed, self-maintains and can scramble and respond as fast as we can. and we're trying to do so. I was on the board at the time that they presented their last incarnation of this project, I guess, We haven't heard any other since then, so it's, um, You know, of course it's still alive. I'm not sure why, you know, I'm sorry, the architect seems a little bit hostile towards us. Nobody's ever called us privileged. So that's just a really interesting take. But, you know, we are here to work. We are, we're, We know everybody's got to get their business done. There's an enormous potential in this land. But when you say that. The Mount Tam views are not affected and you don't show the renderings where this giant building is obstructing Mount Tam. And it's not just for our households, but we have, we walk our talk. We have built our public paths. We have remediated our marsh. We have zero discharge. You know, we provide, we have bike paths on both, all sides of our property. And we would like to see the same from our neighbors. Um, Sorry, I have some notes, but you know, it is a very late or early hour, I guess. A little bit on the rendering. And I, again, I, as coming from the field, I hate to kind of slam it, but there's a, there's, it comes across as monolithic, Of course we have lighting concerns, but just getting this first opportunity to see some of these renderings, all three of them crammed together on this one screen, I had to switch from my phone because it was so, hard to read and this is very important. It looks a little bit like a penitentiary, and I'd really hope that we can do a bit better than that. So I'm gonna leave some time on the clock I hope to work with everybody. I hope that this is not our last opportunity to review this and make this the best project possible for all, for all of our visitors. and everybody who comes through this beautiful portion of the world. Thank you. |
| 06:17:00.83 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Ms. Borman. Thank you for staying up late. Just a quick point of clarification for everybody that is still with us here and those listening at home. This is a study session this evening on this particular project and application. There's no action that's being taken by the Planning Commission this evening. So this is not a formal design review process quite yet. And so, yes, there will be future opportunities to comment. I do see two raised hands, although both speakers have spoken previously. So ETC, who I think is Diane Puglussi, you've already spoken and Ms. Gunard, you've already spoken. So you can go ahead and lower your hands um, Thank you. Okay. Let's go ahead and I will bring this back up to our virtual dais here. and try to pull some thoughts together to provide some direction to this applicant. Does anyone want to start off the conversation this evening? |
| 06:18:13.24 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I just want to start a couple of comments. I mean, I don't think we have adequate detail in these drawings. I understand it's part of this mitigation determination, but I would hate to see that this come in for design review and we get it on a Friday for the following Wednesday meeting. I mean, this is too big a project and we really haven't got the level of details that we need. I wouldn't know where to start at this point given as we started to analyze the site plan, I don't know. I'm just a little frustrated that this size project, you know, We're not getting one the adequate details we want in drawings, we're just getting this mitigation package. And So at this point, I don't know if they can give them cohesive comments for a study session. So I don't know where we go from here, and I don't know whether this is typical for this size project or whatever. I mean, it's a single house, it's a little bit different. |
| 06:19:28.74 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Commissioner Pierce do you have any comments. |
| 06:19:35.15 | Morgan Pierce | I'll echo Commissioner Luxembourg's comments and add that there were some comments from Um, the community regarding the validity of the parking I'm sorry, the traffic study The number of cars that they're identifying scared me to death coming in and out of that little bottleneck at Bridgeway and Again, not having enough time to really sink my teeth into this. I, ugh. When are the comments due for the mitigated death? today. This seems Crazy. No, not tomorrow, today, the 18th. That is crazy. I, I, I just don't know really where to start. I, you know, we've heard some great things. the complete lack of outreach. That seems to be apparent. Um, I don't know. I would advise the applicants to listen to the comments made tonight and take those under serious advice. |
| 06:20:35.70 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 06:20:38.10 | Nastassya Saad | I have. I agree with my fellow commissioners but I'll also add that I think I take If I understand, maybe I can ask a point of clarification and if that's you, Chair Feller, from your experience, is, Is an EIR, is an environmental review not triggered here? Is it not required This could be a question also for staff. |
| 06:21:05.83 | Kristina Feller | you Well, it is. It is. That's what the negative... That's what the negative... |
| 06:21:10.69 | Nastassya Saad | That's what the negative, okay. Cause I thought I saw some type of course |
| 06:21:14.08 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 06:21:15.83 | Nastassya Saad | I don't think I thought I saw a correspondence from the applicant back to Galilee. saying that their feelings did not justify an EIR. And so I'm just want to Thank you. clarify |
| 06:21:30.46 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, that's what it's a negative declaration is what there was what they're looking at. I mean, Director Whalen, correct me if I'm wrong, they're looking, they're looking for the negative declaration. So they don't have to go through CEQA, correct? |
| 06:21:44.35 | Director Whalen | I might have Trisha come up and speak as the project planner about the level of environmental review that this project went through. But essentially we conducted an initial study per CEQA. to determine the level of environmental review. and determine that a mitigated negative declaration was appropriate in this case. I'll let Tricia take over from this point. |
| 06:22:10.69 | Trisha Stevens | Yes, based on the information that we have, the conclusion was is that there was not any significant impacts that could not be mitigated. But with that said, you know, we will listen to comments and figure out where to go from here. That is... what the conclusion is so far, but we will respond to comment. |
| 06:22:36.48 | Nastassya Saad | Okay thank you for clarifying. I think I definitely take issue with 3.1. of the Negative declaration I believe it's page 26 on aesthetics. I understand. if I'm correct that some this is a third party prepared declaration, but Um, The first point being have a substantial adverse effect on a scenic vista, it says less than significant. I think I agree with someone from the public comment I was looking for the same from the rendering. I think the Mount Tam view really needs to be shown and taken into account from all angles particularly I'm not only I'm going to state from Galilee as a point of reference, but not only the Galilee community, the entire Sausalito community and visitors and people who walk now with Um, with the new signs that have been posted on Bridgeway that direct people to La Garage, which used to almost be for locals only, but now people know the beach So everyone uses that pathway and there's a very clear view to Mount Tam That's I think our community would consider about. important and not less than significant. So I think there, we may need to be, have some revisions and I think community input on 3.1 would be a, A GOOD DISTRICT. to move forward with. AND I THINK IT'S A LOT OF I also agree with Commissioner Pearce I don't I know I don't have the background in parking and traffic but the sheer number as as someone who's born and raised in Sausalito. still lives here my whole life. I know the streets really well. I know it's changed. But that amount of traffic to go down into that area, you have to also consider as the thoroughfare to get there it seems it seems jarring. Um, So I don't know necessarily how to challenge a traffic study. And if that is the final numbers then we can work with that. But I think that's really going to make an impact on how any of this kind of moves forward. Um, And the last thing I had was I believe it's page 48. And this was an indirect impact. I think this was specific to nesting. But I do have a little bit of a overarching comment um, around the duration of the work. I think it was for three years or three and a half years, minimum three years of construction. I also think I understood that they're looking to start construction in April. I don't recall where I read that so correct me if I'm wrong. Um, But It seems as though the there may not be according to this document direct impacts but I think the indirect impacts are really actually where to focus if the marsh is not being touched and they're not concerned about runoff. I think we have a lot of habitats and birds and very unique species there that it's going to put not only the Galilee community, but our species under duress. What if that doesn't return I don't know if there's some more information we can get on that. |
| 06:26:12.73 | Kwok Yin Chong | Thank you. |
| 06:26:12.83 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 06:26:12.97 | Kwok Yin Chong | We have a great day. |
| 06:26:16.41 | Nastassya Saad | And those are those are my comments at the moment. Thank you Chair Feller. |
| 06:26:20.42 | Kristina Feller | Excellent comments. And I find it really, I'm having a hard time believing that, um, is not required here, particularly if there hasn't even been a conversation with BayWave I think it's a knowing full song. Thank you. marshland and runoff that they've been studying and modeling as, as you know, they've identified this area as being a significant risk. We know that that's published. or counting as identified. And so I'm not really convinced that that it is not required here. The traffic, of course, definitely It scares me as well. I'd want to go back to really understand some of the the uses or the mix of uses here to see what's generating that And perhaps that needs to be considered when looking at a development like this. And it doesn't necessarily have to be the size. It has to be the use. that is driving that traffic. From an aesthetic standpoint, it's very difficult for me to really comment on what I've seen so far. because I don't think it's I'm not sure. it hasn't evolved to a point where I could really comment, but the renderings I think are misleading. |
| 06:27:46.00 | Kwok Yin Chong | Amen. |
| 06:27:50.27 | Kristina Feller | I think I'm really unclear what the materials are. The renderings, of course, are very conceptual naturally. but from what I see, I don't like because it looks, It looks, cheap and it doesn't look like it has any, you know, it has no sense of place. It looks a little sterile. It certainly doesn't, support the aesthetic and the spirit of this part of Sausalito. And so I'm very concerned about that. I'm also curious about shadow studies on some of the larger buildings in particular. I think I want to make sure that none of these buildings are inadvertently shadowing areas that are otherwise enjoyed by public and public paths and so on and so forth. So I'd be interested in that. certainly And then in terms of the conditional use permit specific to the restaurant, what I'd want to know what that restaurant is meant to be. Is that like or is it meant to be some other type of restaurant convenient to people using the beach or on the path or whatever it might be? I'd like to really understand what Is it breakfast, lunch, dinner? I'm not sure. No preparation, just takeaway stuff. I don't know. So it would be really useful to understand that. From what I see, I'm not, I don't know that I could get fully behind what I've seen so far. And I know there was a lot of time spent on lighting, which is absolutely important. But at this point, Um, You know, I think we need, um, um, I think it's really important to to figure out a little bit more on the details of that. We seem to have detailed lighting without detailing really what the building is. Um, So, I mean, that's sort of an overview. I just don't think I could get into any more detail at this point. Um, Do any of you have any other comments? Because I'd certainly like to ask the applicant to come back up here virtually, let's say, to make sure that any feedback or comments that we're providing is also clear so that this is meant to be a constructive study session and meant to provide some direction and some input, so we are assisting with your success. but does the commissioners have |
| 06:30:32.93 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I think the idea that they want to improve this particular parcel is a good thing. So I mean, I don't want to give totally negative reaction to this, I think that doing improvements to this parcel would benefit that area, so I do want to make that a point. |
| 06:30:51.22 | Kristina Feller | Sure, thank you Commissioner Luxenberg, thank you. |
| 06:30:55.83 | Morgan Pierce | And I'll add to Commissioner Lux's statement because, and it's important that they are planning for the use of marine industrials. functions there, which obviously is required by the range of general or specific plan, but it also is consistent with all the adjacent uses there. I'm not sure. I thought you had something you were asking about Chair Feller, regarding the materials, it would be nice to understand you know, what the precedents were that were used to draw this particular material palette from. I mean, obviously, there are a lot of existing buildings down there, many of them made from metal and pieces of concrete and steel and glass and so on and so forth. And, you know, is this is this production meant to be a direct evolution of that, or is it supposed to be just a standalone Um, unique element, I'm not I'm not really sure. So I'd like to really I'd really like to know the applicant's understanding of the context and how they feel like this fits to that context. Um, I guess the other thing was, Uh, Somebody mentioned something about meeting time and public participation. I think that is critical. I understand during the pandemic, challenging for us to have the meetings be as succinct as we would like them to be. But at the same time, It is important. room. project of this magnitude and scope. that we get proper public input. I just, I think that's a good thing. or let staff take that under advisement. they can make it. They can help that. I'm curious about the proposed lease rates for the building. As John Deray mentioned, you know, lack of affordable I'm not sure. industrial space in the marineship and the you know, based on current construction costs and what I anticipate they're going to be spending on this. that may bar many people who we would ideally like to have working in this area from actually being able to at least the spaces. Um, And then the last thing I was wondering, did anybody consider sea level rise in the entire and the application of floor finish elevation. setting because it just seems like these things are going to be underwater sooner than bullet. the loans are paid off. What are you going to do about that? |
| 06:33:15.16 | Kristina Feller | Good point. That's why we've got to have this model. Absolutely. And then, you know, because this is, you know, sort of earmarked for the maritime the issue of the boat tie up is |
| 06:33:32.78 | Jeffery Luxenberg | which is. |
| 06:33:33.47 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. marshland and marsh areas that, you know, support very important habitats, but um, You know, I don't want to just. or hands up in the air and say, oh, well, it's not feasible. It's too expensive or something. I really want to have some teeth behind that to understand the basis of that statement. um, So, Any other major points here? Should we invite the applicant back up here to sort of ask any follow-up questions of us in terms of any of our... the comments you've heard from us and the comments he's heard |
| 06:34:10.14 | Kwok Yin Chong | Thank you. |
| 06:34:10.29 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 06:34:10.43 | Kwok Yin Chong | Thank you. |
| 06:34:14.06 | Kristina Feller | Bye-bye. |
| 06:34:15.79 | Nastassya Saad | Um, may I make. Just one clarification I don't know if it is for staff or the applicant but I think it said that there were nine parking spaces and that would be available on the weekdays for residents and ate on the weekends and they gave some certain time ranges. Are those slated to be public shore that I just would was looking for and I think I saw that in the declaration, not in the staff report but the parking spaces that would be allotted I don't I couldn't understand if those are public shore availability. Um, And then one more thing from the staff report was on on the conditional permit for the restaurant It said that Hmm... On page 23, a finding is required that the location and signage does not encourage use by persons outside the Marin ship. And I just don't know. I know this is getting into the details now, but it just seems like an odd I don't know how that's enforced. A lot of people have discovered Schoonermacher over the years. It used to be an empty locals only beach. So I think it's bound to draw people And would they be prepared for that? or is that a finding that we want to just remove? Because I just don't think it makes it makes much sense unless the applicant has some understanding around can can shed some light on on that. |
| 06:35:51.42 | Kristina Feller | So let me quickly ask Tricia if you could join us here. maybe help just respond to a couple of those questions. Real quick, just for clarification of your staff report. |
| 06:36:08.32 | Trisha Stevens | Well, I have taken copious notes And I'm not sure what points you want clarification on at this point. I think we're prepared to respond more comprehensively. I'm sorry. |
| 06:36:24.52 | Nastassya Saad | . |
| 06:36:24.58 | Trisha Stevens | at this point. |
| 06:36:24.70 | Nastassya Saad | I was. Thank you. |
| 06:36:25.12 | Trisha Stevens | Thank you. |
| 06:36:25.14 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 06:36:25.39 | Trisha Stevens | Thank you. |
| 06:36:25.43 | Nastassya Saad | Sure, maybe to stick with the staff report, because I know for sure where this point is on page 22. under the conditional use permit of the restaurant |
| 06:36:34.90 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Um, |
| 06:36:34.94 | Nastassya Saad | I'm not sure. Excuse me, on page 23. Number three says a finding is required that the location and signage does not encourage use. by persons outside the marine ship. And I'm just wondering how, you know, anytime there's a condition, you always wonder how it's enforced. So I was just wondering what, parameters around how do you How do you not encourage people outside the Marineship? to come use that service. |
| 06:37:03.08 | Trisha Stevens | Thank you. Well, that's a good question. I think we're going to just need to go back and respond to that. Sure. And then just on the parking. I think the signage is kind of key to it. So we'll look at that. Thank you. |
| 06:37:14.87 | Nastassya Saad | Okay, thank you. And then just do you know if the parking spaces out of the 108, I think again, it was nine. that the public was able to use during the week and then there's a number of them I think eight on the weekends. Do you know if that's slated to be public shore with the normal public shore signs that we have around? town or is it just that? there are 108 spaces and then nine are always available for, Thank you. |
| 06:37:38.87 | Trisha Stevens | I'm not sure how they're dead. |
| 06:37:38.88 | Nastassya Saad | I'm not sure how they're designated. |
| 06:37:40.03 | Trisha Stevens | but I'm not sure what the signage is going to look like. I'll have to check on that. Okay. Okay. Thank you very much. |
| 06:37:46.39 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Fosha. Thank you very much. Let's go ahead and Mr. McDonald, if you'd like to come back and join us if we can unmute Mr. McDonald. and put his video on. Um, we can ask you. Here I am. Okay, great, great. Yeah. Thank you. |
| 06:38:06.93 | Brent McDonald | Here I am. |
| 06:38:11.25 | Kristina Feller | So you've heard You've heard a lot of comment, both from this commission, but also very importantly from the public And, uh, So I just wanted to ask you if you had any questions to clarify anything that has been discussed here or mentioned by any party. |
| 06:38:34.20 | Brent McDonald | Well, I could clarify almost everything that was brought up. And as you've noticed that there's a lot of nuances to this project. And so I think the goal today was to bring up the big picture items and not get down into color and choice of material. But in fact, For example, in the original application, is a number of photos that talk about, that come from the Marin ship that show the inspiration for the elements used in the building. At any rate, we could go on and on about that. But in the limited amount of time, we dealt with the big picture items, which was the sighting of the buildings, the views, the circulation, and that we had addressed concern of privacy. We do talk about the schedule and shocking for people. I've been trying to sit down with the planning directors, both Lily and Danny Castro, and was directed that we needed to get through the MND. So I mean, I understand we need to put together enough record that people can actually get their hands around it. You guys are just getting into it now. There is a record of all the items you mentioned, including some notes that I wrote on the staff report that a number of the commissioners have pointed out. For example, even one of the speakers said that the trail is in fact not part of the Bay Trail. Well, I've wrote a memo on that. We wrote a memo on tie ups. So there is all kinds of information. And I think tonight's been effective to get everybody familiar with the whole slew of topics and where we take it from here. I think a Saturday I'm not sure. session of some fashion would be good. Sometimes I have the answers more than the independent consultants, so. I hope that helps you a little bit. I mean, I can start responding specifically or you can ask me specific questions and I can take you to certain documents. |
| 06:40:31.45 | Kwok Yin Chong | Thank you. |
| 06:40:31.47 | Unknown | and it helps. |
| 06:40:31.85 | Kwok Yin Chong | Thank you. |
| 06:40:37.49 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 06:40:37.57 | Kristina Feller | Doc? |
| 06:40:37.94 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 06:40:38.65 | Brent McDonald | But the documents are voluminous. There's lots of documents on this project. |
| 06:40:44.19 | Kristina Feller | Sure, and certainly appreciate that. and really appreciate your willingness on behalf of the applicant to be part of a well, it's just called a Saturday afternoon workshop or some kind of community outreach workshop like that on a weekend. The question that I had for you though, was, was there anything discussed by this commission or mentioned by us or, any of the public comment that we need to clarify to you in terms of input or direction or our thoughts. So I know you have a lot of information, but I want to make sure that we're being clear and providing you some constructive input Um, So, you know, to move forward on your... |
| 06:41:27.39 | Brent McDonald | Well, when you've got a You've made a lot of statements and I've made a lot of notes, but many of these questions there are specific answers to. For example, when you talked about what's the inspiration of the materials, there is answers to that. And there is a document that was put together for that. But of course tonight we don't have time to get it. And I left it out of the, the presentation specifically, because what we're really dealing here is the bigger picture first, And then you dive down into colors and materials and how does a doorway work? So, first and foremost, we've got to talk about the relationship of the residential structures of Galilee next to the light industrial. that has always been there. So, you know, I mean, those are the big issues that are, seems to be the biggest conflict, truthfully. And when they talk about, you know, drainage and affecting of the marsh, well, of course, there is a whole hydrology study and civil engineering drawings to this project. that you probably haven't seen. And the fact of the matter is that all of the on-site will be perking more water and treating more water than it is now. And it basically goes out the north side as it does today. but it's going through bioswales. There's permeable paving, you know, There's a whole There's another 100 pages that shows how the hydrology works on the site. |
| 06:42:59.92 | Jeffery Luxenberg | That's how I draw. |
| 06:43:00.62 | Ryan Burke | Thank you. |
| 06:43:00.72 | Kwok Yin Chong | Thank you. |
| 06:43:02.45 | Kristina Feller | I appreciate that. So I think at this point, our input and that of the public, the very critical input of the public is then clear to you and you've taken notes. And I know, Tricia, thank you very much for also taking notes through this process. Um, I think, um, you know, at this point, um, We've discussed the item and director Whalen, I think that should probably conclude this item on our agenda today. Um, Or did... our community director go. |
| 06:43:37.87 | Director Whalen | Thank you. Thank you, Chair Fallin. I'm still here. I got kicked off my home internet now, so I have to call in. Thank you. |
| 06:43:45.31 | Kristina Feller | It's great. |
| 06:43:45.53 | Director Whalen | I'm sorry. |
| 06:43:47.92 | Kristina Feller | I think we're just about there. So I think we can close this item on our agenda. and move on to the next item. |
| 06:43:56.94 | Brent McDonald | Thank you. |
| 06:43:58.10 | Kristina Feller | Thank you very much, Mr. McDonald. Thank you. |
| 06:44:04.07 | Director Whalen | So your next item here is our communication item. And the item I had that I wanted to just go over was some of your upcoming items for April. I know that was... a topic at our last meeting, it's just kind of giving some a little bit of a preview as far as your upcoming items And so in April right now we have Um, an appeal scheduled appeal on an ADU that was approved. through the tree removal permit, I'm not sure. We have a, at 88 George, Um, We have a study session for re-striping on Nevada Street, and that's the public works director who will be presenting that to you. And then the Langston building was scheduled to come back. at that meeting as well, the first meeting in April. Second meeting, you have the design review for 99 Wolfpack. the 1881 Spencer Drive project that you heard a few meetings ago. There'll be a study session for 310 Harvard Drive and then a public hearing for a project at Three Marion for a design review permit. |
| 06:45:27.20 | Kristina Feller | Great, you're keeping it busy. |
| 06:45:30.46 | Director Whalen | Yes. |
| 06:45:31.05 | Trisha Stevens | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 06:45:31.96 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 06:45:31.97 | Trisha Stevens | you |
| 06:45:32.67 | Kristina Feller | Good. |
| 06:45:33.76 | Trisha Stevens | I have the first meeting in May also booked out too. |
| 06:45:33.87 | Kristina Feller | have you. |
| 06:45:34.40 | Jeffery Luxenberg | . |
| 06:45:40.16 | Kristina Feller | All right. Um, |
| 06:45:42.47 | Trisha Stevens | Can I be here? |
| 06:45:43.82 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 06:45:43.96 | Trisha Stevens | All right. |
| 06:45:43.97 | Richard Graef | Wow. |
| 06:45:44.77 | Kristina Feller | Oh yes, Richard, come back. |