| Time | Speaker | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00.32 | Kristina Feller | Good to go. Great. |
| 00:00:09.55 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Good evening and welcome to the regular planning commission meeting of Wednesday April 7th 2021. Community Development Director Whalen, could you kindly call the roll? |
| 00:00:21.85 | Director Whalen | Hello and good evening Chair Feller and Planning Commissioners. This meeting is being held pursuant to section 3 of executive order n-29 issued by Governor Newsom on March 17, 2020, and all members are joining this meeting telephonically through Zoom. And I will now call the role. Commissioner Assad. |
| 00:00:42.10 | Jeffery Luxenberg | THE FAMILY. |
| 00:00:42.93 | Director Whalen | Commissioner Luxembourg. |
| 00:00:44.66 | Jeffery Luxenberg | here. |
| 00:00:45.46 | Director Whalen | Commissioner Pierce. |
| 00:00:46.64 | Jeffery Luxenberg | here. |
| 00:00:47.31 | Director Whalen | Nice chair craft. |
| 00:00:48.66 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 00:00:49.19 | Director Whalen | and cheerfella. Here. Excellent. Everyone is present and we have a quorum. |
| 00:00:54.59 | Kristina Feller | Terrific, thank you. The next item on our agenda is the approval of the agenda. Do I have a motion to approve? |
| 00:01:02.50 | Morgan Pierce | So move. |
| 00:01:04.83 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Do I have a second? Terrific. |
| 00:01:09.05 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 00:01:09.35 | Kristina Feller | Director Whaley, |
| 00:01:10.03 | Director Whalen | Could you please call the roll? |
| 00:01:11.56 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 00:01:11.60 | Director Whalen | Michelle Saad. |
| 00:01:13.10 | Nastassya Saad | Yes. |
| 00:01:13.94 | Director Whalen | Commissioner Luxembourg. |
| 00:01:15.53 | Nastassya Saad | Yes. |
| 00:01:16.29 | Director Whalen | Commissioner Pierce. |
| 00:01:17.33 | Nastassya Saad | Yes. |
| 00:01:17.69 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:01:18.01 | Director Whalen | Did I share a graph? |
| 00:01:19.09 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 00:01:19.66 | Director Whalen | And Chair Feller. Yes. |
| 00:01:21.98 | Kristina Feller | zero. Thank you. Great. So the next item on the agenda are public comments for items not on the agenda. At this time, Director Whelan, could you please ask the public or instruct the public how to raise their hand? |
| 00:01:41.31 | Director Whalen | This is time to hear from citizens regarding matters that are not on the agenda this evening. except in very limited circumstances, state law precludes the planning commission from taking action on or engaging in discussions concerning items of business that are not on the agenda. However, the Commission may refer matters not on the agenda to City staff or direct that the subject be agendized for a future meeting. Video audio public participation is limited now to three minutes per speaker. If you'd like to make a comment on any item not on tonight's agenda, please raise your hand in the Zoom application. under the participants list and you'll be called upon when it's your time to speak. To raise your hand from a phone, you'll press star nine. your name for the record before beginning your comments. We will then allow you to unmute yourself and share your video if you'd like. and need to adjust your settings to allow you to do this. So thank you for your patience. |
| 00:02:32.77 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Director Whelan. I'm gonna give everyone just a minute to Raise their hand if they'd like to. |
| 00:02:45.41 | Director Whalen | I am not seeing any raised hands on public items or public comment on items not on the agenda. |
| 00:02:51.04 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Director Whelan. I do not either. So at this time I'm gonna close public comment. |
| 00:02:57.78 | Director Whalen | I just saw one hand go up, Chair Feller, right at the last minute here. Well, um... It's Don Cravens and we'll ask him to unmute. you |
| 00:03:07.68 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Very good Mr. Cravens welcome you have three minutes for public comment |
| 00:03:13.77 | Don Cravens | Can I ask questions because I'm just catching up on this item and I want to know like how many bikes a day were coming through there that we're talking about? |
| 00:03:23.36 | Kristina Feller | This is for items not on the agenda this evening and we aren't here necessarily to engage in dialogue but these are any comments you would like to make as a member of the public. |
| 00:03:35.37 | Don Cravens | Well, we're talking specifically about the bicycles lane being added over on Nevada. |
| 00:03:41.01 | Kristina Feller | That's an item later on our agenda and you're welcome to make public comment when that item is on the agenda later on this evening. It's my |
| 00:03:50.22 | Don Cravens | My apologies. |
| 00:03:52.28 | Kristina Feller | No problem at all. Thank you for being here this evening. |
| 00:03:53.55 | Don Cravens | for being here. Thanks. Please continue. |
| 00:03:57.60 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Mr. Craven. Um, I will just pan one more time if the public would like to make any comment on items not on the agenda this evening. Now would be the time to raise your hand. I will just ask Zoom staff to confirm I'm not seeing any hands. |
| 00:04:20.19 | Kristina Feller | Give everyone a chance. |
| 00:04:22.08 | Director Whalen | I don't see any hands. |
| 00:04:23.35 | Kristina Feller | Okay. All right. Let's go ahead and close public comment at this time. |
| 00:04:29.04 | Director Whalen | Excellent. So moving swiftly along to the next item on our agenda, which is our public hearing items. Before we begin our public hearing items, this is the time for any commissioners to provide declarations regarding ex parte communications. |
| 00:04:46.30 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Commissioner Saad. |
| 00:04:50.23 | Nastassya Saad | I don't have any to report I only visited 88 George Lane and briefly spoke with the tenant. The homeowner was not present and she just allowed me onto the property. |
| 00:05:04.93 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Commissioner Pierce. |
| 00:05:08.54 | Nastassya Saad | Uh, |
| 00:05:08.98 | Morgan Pierce | same as commissioners thought. |
| 00:05:11.27 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Commissioner Luxenberg. |
| 00:05:14.06 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I went back to Crescenta but did not speak with anyone. I was at 88 Georges and did just identify myself to the tenant but did not have any discussions with her. And then I also, viewed the abutting property at 84 Georges Lane, but I indicated that I could not answer any questions to the abutter, but I did view that site and I also went and looked at Nevada Street as well for our study session. |
| 00:05:46.17 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Thank you very much. Vice Chair Graff. |
| 00:05:49.63 | Richard Graef | No ex parte communications. |
| 00:05:52.48 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. And I like my other fellow commissioners did visit 88 George and I did identify myself to the tenant as well, but and just went along my way to look at the property and hike up the hill to where the trees were being removed or proposed to be removed. So that's all we have. |
| 00:06:17.00 | Kristina Feller | So director... |
| 00:06:17.81 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 00:06:17.91 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 00:06:17.93 | Director Whalen | Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner. So our first public hearing item tonight is item 4A, which is a request for changes to an approved sign of review permit. Sarah Silver, In variance at to Christian to drive, and this is a continued item from your last meeting and we have contract planner. Justin Kolparda, who will be giving the staff presentation. So if we can unmute Justin and allow him to start his presentation, that'd be great. |
| 00:06:52.05 | Justin Kolparda | No. Good evening planning commissioners. Tonight I will be speaking about changes to an approved design review permit and variance located at 2 Crescenta Drive. The item before you all has been continued from the March 17, 2021 Planning Commission This presentation will be focused on the direction provided by staff provided to staff by the commission regarding the as-built sound wall. Next slide, please. The Planning Commission held a public hearing on March 17th, 2021, and following discussion, continued the public hearing and directed the applicant to address the following items. listed here in regards to the sound wall located located on the Western property line of the site. adjacent to Highway 1. These include potential impacts of painting or other coating to the wall, the noise canceling qualities of the wall, changes to landscaping to better screen the sound wall, noise analysis of existing conditions, and outreach and correspondence with neighbors. the applicant provided sorry, back to the slide. The applicant provided information relating to the coating of the wall. proposed additional landscaping to screen the wall and conducted an additional sound reading That was conducted on April 2nd, 2021. the sound reading. after the Planning Commission packet was circulated and establishes a baseline noise conditioning for the as-built Sunwell today. the applicant did contact the manufacturer of the sound wall and learned that painting the wall would void its warranty and the applicant has stated, that they would prefer to not paint the wall because it would void the warranty. the manufacturer was unable to provide any feedback on what the coding the sound well. would impact its noise, depth, and quality. but did indicate that they were aware of one municipal project where Soundgall was painted. neighborhood correspondence relating to the song song well from the current day and dating back to 2020. was included in your packet as attachment. Next slide, please. note. the September 14th. the 2018 administrative approval of a change of material to The sound wall was limited to the material change from cedar solid board to PVC. The administrative approval specified wood tone colors that were approved and no other changes to the design. administrative approval further stated that the wall would need to be painted in mass if after installation the glare from the wall is deemed to be too reflected for the neighborhood With this, the as-built design does not conform with the administrative approval because the as-built sun wall steps down in sections as opposed to following the contours of the site and is taller at up to 14 and a half feet in height as opposed to the approved height of eight feet. In addition, the color repairs not to be approved and reads as white slash gray rather than the wood tones that were approved and specified in the administrative approval. the applicant submitted correspondence stating that the colour of the as-built wall consists of grey tones However, the applicant was unable to confirm the the exact colors utilized in the construction of the as built sound wall. Next slide, please. the applicant submitted one change to the approved landscaping plan, adding six Japanese blueberry trees. along the approximately 150 foot length of the sound wall elevation. and the applicant is not proposing any further design changes beyond this. Next slide, please. after circulating the packet of materials for the project to the Planning Commission |
| 00:10:30.94 | Unknown | You... |
| 00:10:31.48 | Justin Kolparda | staff did receive additional items regarding this agenda item. These additional items include additional neighborhood correspondence from Chantelle Bourd, an abutting neighbor dated April 2nd, 2021. applicant correspondence regarding sound wall color dated April 5, 2021, and an ambient noise study dated April 2, 2021, the additional information provided was provided to you all as late mail to this packet and does not alter the findings needed for the approval of a designer view permit and variant nor the conditions of approval that were prepared by staff. Next slide, please. |
| 00:11:12.55 | Justin Kolparda | Given the anecdotal information received from neighbors through neighborhood correspondence and outreach, stating that the sound wall in its current state returns the sound quality of the wall to create installation levels and the second sound reading conducted on April 2, 2021. a baseline noise condition has been established. based on the Planning Commission's comments, the requirements of the administrative approval and the applicant submittal since March 2017. Staff recommends conditions of approval to ensure design review findings and varying findings can be made as detailed. here, including painting or additional coating with a wood-toned matte compatible color. other samples we must be provided in situ to the Planning Commission in advance of cleaning the entirety of the wall to ensure compatibility a new sound test post-sound wall coding or painting, and a revised landscaping plan that shows growth projections. of new proposed landscaping. Next slide, please. In conclusion, staff recommends that the Planning Commission grant design review and variance approval subjects to the attached conditions of approval. Thank you. Thanks. |
| 00:12:30.09 | Kristina Feller | Thank you very much, Justin. I appreciate the staff report and all the time you've put into this. I know this has been ongoing for a while, so thank you for that. At this time, I'd like to ask commissioners if they have any specific questions for staff So I'm going to just start with how I see everyone on my screen here. uh commissioner luxembourg did you have any questions for staff |
| 00:12:53.33 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I'm trying to open this late communication. So let me open that. If you could go on to others, let me open that communication first. |
| 00:13:01.28 | Kristina Feller | Sure. And maybe Justin, as Commissioner LePsenberg is doing that before I ask another commissioner, can you quickly just highlight what was in this late mail? Amen. You're on mute, Justin. |
| 00:13:15.84 | Justin Kolparda | Sorry about that. So there were three items that were submitted One was, and it just was a late, neighborhood letter from a neighbor that, Thank you. was present at the last planning committee meeting, this, this, effectively this letter detailed that the wall essentially restores in its current configuration essentially restores the noise quality of the neighborhood to three-wall levels. So that was one letter and that was received after the the project was noticed as well. Um, The second was an applicant, was applicant correspondence regarding the color of the wall in its current form. Like I said, the applicant was unable to provide the exact color of the wall as built and then the last was an ambient noise study prepared on April 22nd, 2021 by of Bay Area Noise Control and the conclusion of this was minimal compared to the first noise study that was prepared back in October of 2020. possible. |
| 00:14:24.49 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. What is the decibel reading level now? |
| 00:14:28.23 | Justin Kolparda | So the test was conducted, I believe, from five different spots. and it's detailed in the study. Um, but the part that I explored specifically in my staff report was this side facing the single family residence. um, |
| 00:14:48.10 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:14:48.23 | Justin Kolparda | the reading was specifically the decibel level was specifically one moment. Thank you. um, 66, point. So that was in 2021. or 2020. And then in the new test. bear with me here so I can get you precise numbers. |
| 00:15:25.96 | Justin Kolparda | in the new test. conducted on April 2nd, 2021, we have a reading of 65.7 decibels. So there was a about two decimal drugs. |
| 00:15:38.18 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much. |
| 00:15:41.27 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 00:15:41.34 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 00:15:41.35 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Okay. |
| 00:15:42.94 | Kristina Feller | Commissioner Luxembourg, are you ready or do you want me to? |
| 00:15:45.52 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yeah, I'm ready. I guess I'm ready. getting this late is just very frustrating. I mean, if I don't... I thought that we were supposed to get this ahead of time. But can you explain what you, there, it's hard to go back to it, but in the original report, there was one previous study done. I don't know which point that was. I'm trying to understand how |
| 00:16:06.68 | Sandra Bushmaker | Right. |
| 00:16:12.27 | Jeffery Luxenberg | from before we had this Um, wall. there was a certain reading. Did we have data from that time period? |
| 00:16:21.40 | Justin Kolparda | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:16:22.05 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 00:16:22.07 | Justin Kolparda | you do that was included in your initial package. MR. |
| 00:16:26.34 | Jeffery Luxenberg | And so my question is, how has it changed? How was it before there was no wall and now? I mean, what are... |
| 00:16:37.24 | Director Whalen | Excuse me, Commissioner Luxembourg. I'm so sorry to interrupt here. I think there was a misstatement there by staff. There was no sound reading prior to the installation of the wall. The sound reading occurred after the wall was installed. I believe it was in the October timeframe. |
| 00:16:46.76 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:16:51.43 | Director Whalen | And I believe you in the late mail that came that you haven't had a chance to look at yet. I think the sound study from October is in that packet of information as well. |
| 00:16:51.49 | Unknown | And I believe- |
| 00:17:01.49 | Director Whalen | Justin, do you think it is the... Is there a summary of the prior sound study and the new sound study that you can show on the screen for the commission? |
| 00:17:13.81 | Justin Kolparda | I can. So, |
| 00:17:18.76 | Justin Kolparda | One moment. |
| 00:17:25.94 | Justin Kolparda | So what I have on my screen up here before you all is the readings conducted from the different points of the sound study. So A1 is the, for example, in this document, A1 is the reading that was done previously in October of 2020. And then A2, which is the reading, the number underneath, is that that's a good idea. decibel reading that was gotten in April of 2021. So we have it done here from five different locations. and overall the the difference, the variation is very minor. I'm not sure. and that was the conclusion. |
| 00:18:06.39 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Can I ask you, sorry to interrupt Justin, through the chair, can I ask you, Is the reading from before with the, before the wall was flipped and after the wall was Or these are just two just random readings for Um, These are two exact readings from the same conditions in the same location. |
| 00:18:27.99 | Justin Kolparda | No, your understanding is correct. The reading done in October of 2020 was before the panels were flipped. The reading in April 2020 was after the panels were flipped in its current configuration. |
| 00:18:40.46 | Jeffery Luxenberg | And is the one is before and two is after, B1 is before and B2 is after? |
| 00:18:45.96 | Unknown | Correct. |
| 00:18:46.20 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 00:18:46.29 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:18:47.33 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I see. |
| 00:18:51.37 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Okay, thank you. |
| 00:18:53.05 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 00:18:53.12 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I'm also terrified. |
| 00:18:54.27 | Kristina Feller | All right. Thank you very much. Commissioner Saad, do you have any questions for staff this evening? |
| 00:19:01.44 | Nastassya Saad | I'm not sure. No, I don't think for staff. Thank you, Chair Feller. |
| 00:19:05.99 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Commissioner. |
| 00:19:06.97 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. |
| 00:19:07.03 | Kristina Feller | Pierce. |
| 00:19:08.49 | Morgan Pierce | This question may ultimately be for the applicant, but I'll direct it to staff presently. The original color approved for the PVC wall when it was changed from the wood were the honey, or I can't remember the other name, the wood tones. Did the applicant at all present this to staff before they went ahead and did it, or did they provide some explanation for why they changed it without reviewing the staff? |
| 00:19:35.80 | Justin Kolparda | Yeah, that would probably be a better question for the applicant. I would defer at this time to what was administratively approved. which is the honey tea. um, but I would defer that question to applicants. |
| 00:19:50.22 | Director Whalen | I could just weigh in here as well, just to clarify with the commission, that staff did not approve an alternative color from that administrative approval. That's the latest. Thank you. |
| 00:20:01.28 | Morgan Pierce | $10. |
| 00:20:01.50 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 00:20:01.57 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:20:03.52 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 00:20:04.35 | Morgan Pierce | I have chair fellowships. |
| 00:20:05.45 | Kristina Feller | All right, thank you, Commissioner Pierce. Vice Chair Gnapp. |
| 00:20:09.04 | Richard Graef | No, my question had to do with the decibel readings and I think that's been cleared up. I'm good for now. Thanks. |
| 00:20:20.84 | Kristina Feller | Okay. I'm not sure. Justine, I just had a couple of questions. The revised landscape that the applicant is |
| 00:20:30.56 | Unknown | Mm-hmm. |
| 00:20:31.20 | Kristina Feller | Um, has proposed. these are the Japanese blueberry is an evergreen tree. Is that correct? |
| 00:20:40.24 | Justin Kolparda | Correct. Mm-hmm. |
| 00:20:41.91 | Kristina Feller | And are they suggesting or recommending a mature like 25 gallon tree um to be planted |
| 00:20:52.51 | Justin Kolparda | I don't know. However, the applicant has brought an arborist on that is a subject matter expert. Um, so that they can provide better conclusions for you on that. |
| 00:21:07.02 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 00:21:07.95 | Justin Kolparda | Mm-hmm. |
| 00:21:08.64 | Kristina Feller | And has, and I know that this is likely a question for the applicant, but I'll go ahead and ask you, because I know you've had discussions with them, |
| 00:21:16.32 | Unknown | Mm-hmm. |
| 00:21:16.76 | Kristina Feller | Um, regarding the warranty of this. that they've erected. I'm assuming they do not want avoided warranty. Is that correct? |
| 00:21:28.17 | Justin Kolparda | That is correct. That is what's been communicated to me throughout this process. |
| 00:21:34.16 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 00:21:34.17 | Justin Kolparda | Okay. Mm-hmm. |
| 00:21:36.18 | Kristina Feller | And finally, I know that this is a difficult site because it's tucked up. top of a cul-de-sac right on 101. But do these, do the second decibel readings of April 2nd, 2021, fall within the acceptable for residential zones. |
| 00:21:59.81 | Justin Kolparda | I believe they do. When we were doing our analysis, we concluded that the sound reading was acceptable I mean, within general plan noise levels and zoning noise levels. |
| 00:22:13.17 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 00:22:13.95 | Justin Kolparda | Mm-hmm. |
| 00:22:14.96 | Kristina Feller | Okay, thank you, Justin. Thank you very much. Any other questions for staff from anybody on the Commission? Any follow up? Okay, great. Thank you very much. I think at this time, We'll invite the applicant up for their presentation. So if I could ask the Zoom team to unmute them and turn their cameras on. if they would like to give their presentation. You have 15 minutes for presentation. for your team. |
| 00:22:48.42 | Kristina Feller | So let's see, are the Berks here? |
| 00:22:50.84 | Mr. Burke | I'm here. I can't turn my video on. Thank you. |
| 00:22:53.99 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Thank you, Mr. Burke. Hold on. Let me ask the Zoom team if they can |
| 00:22:54.31 | Mr. Burke | Thank you. |
| 00:23:00.44 | Kristina Feller | Allow Mr. Burke to put his camera on. Oh, there you go. |
| 00:23:04.94 | Mr. Burke | Thank you. |
| 00:23:05.70 | Kristina Feller | Okay, welcome 15 minutes. |
| 00:23:08.67 | Mr. Burke | Okay, yeah, I don't really have like any type of presentation or anything prepared. I'm just here to really answer any questions. And of course we have an arborist here as well, that can answer any questions for you. But what I will share with you guys is that we did order the honey maple. That is the color that you guys approved is what we ordered. I mean, it might look different once it's in the daylight with sun and all those things, but that is the actual color that we ordered on the sound wall. So I'm not sure where the confusion is coming in saying that we changed the color, but that is the actual color that we ordered. And then as far as you know, you guys asked us to reach out to kind of the neighbors that were on that original email that they had sent to Lily. And I CC'd Lily on the emails that I had sent, and we got one response. There's one individual that hasn't responded. I sent two emails, and they haven't responded. So that would be the only person that hasn't responded. And basically, I was just sending an email to get feedback on, you know, now that we flipped the wall around, how do you feel about that? And this and that, and they just didn't respond. So, um, there was, I believe four neighbors on that original email that were complaining to the sound. Chantel, who's one of them, who's our direct neighbor, And So they responded, they were on it last time on the commissioner meeting. And then Donna, she sold her house, so she doesn't live there anymore. So we didn't reach out to her as we told you guys last time. So we did that and we spoke with the arborist and he recommended those six trees for specific reasons of how they grow and how they screen. So we definitely want to give him an opportunity. His name's Justin. It's under Justin's iPhone to speak on that as well. But what I'll also share with you guys is there's been no landscaping done at all yet. over by that wall because we're waiting to kind of see what happens before we invest money into that. But you know, the wall and the color and all that stuff is going to be completely different once there is landscaping because it will be screened. And then with those six additional trees, which are really big trees, I think that's going to, It's going to make that whole section right there. look really, really good. As far as the paint colors, I'm not sure if there's confusion. We did send Justin two different paint colors. that we kind of looked at that again, you guys said kind of a warmer gray, but it's kind of hard to, to kind of know exactly what that means. So we just found a couple of colors that we sent over. But that being said, if we paint it and if we paint it and we void the warranty, there is a good possibility that we will lose the buyer that's been patiently waiting for four months. |
| 00:26:01.12 | Unknown | I kind of know exactly. |
| 00:26:18.76 | Mr. Burke | that we've been in escrow to try to get this figured out. I mean, if the only way that we can get this through is that we have to paint it, I guess, I guess we'll risk it, but there is a really good chance that we could lose the buyer. Because of that. And then, as you guys know, the situation of the property at that point, it's probably just going to end up going into foreclosure because there's just nothing else we can do anymore. At that point, we just, we don't have the funds to continue to float it. So. I don't know if you guys have any questions for us or anything like that, but we'd be happy to answer any of those. |
| 00:26:54.85 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Mr. Burke. Could we maybe get your arborist up here so he can present how these Japanese blueberries would be planted? |
| 00:27:06.19 | Mr. Burke | Yes, he's under Justin's iPhone. If you can kind of see him right there on the second row. |
| 00:27:13.33 | Kristina Feller | Okay, Zoom team, let's go ahead and unmute. Justin. |
| 00:27:18.47 | Justin Anderson | Yeah, I just unmuted myself. Can you hear me? Yes, we can hear you. Okay, good. My video doesn't seem to be Okay, here we go. Sorry. Okay. Yeah. My name is Justin Anderson. I'm a licensed contractor and a certified arborist. And the Alecocarpus discipien or the Japanese blueberry is what's proposed to be planted along that wall. It grows approximately Ideal scenario, 30 feet in the air. It also gets very broad. It's evergreen, it has nice fall colors, as the name would suggest, a nice blue It's very attractive and it's fast growing and well-suited to that particular environment because it can handle Um, our temperate zone. It also can either do shade or sun. It doesn't need a whole lot of irrigation. And it's relatively fast growing as far as something that kind of checks all those boxes. And it also has to be able to grow in an area that has limited sunlight, because there's also a lot of foliage around there, so it's slightly shaded. So it's it kind of fits the bill as far as the size that it gets to. It's also easy to maintain. And it's quite attractive, especially in the fall when the leaves change. It's quite lovely. Anybody have questions for me specifically? |
| 00:28:38.41 | Kristina Feller | Yes, Justin, if you don't mind just staying on here. Mr. Burke, are you done with your time? |
| 00:28:42.43 | Mr. Burke | Okay. |
| 00:28:46.17 | Mr. Burke | Um, yeah, unless, unless you guys have questions, I don't really, you know, I don't have really anything else to, um. to present at this time. I might have, so depending on kind of what your guys' comments are, I might have a couple things to add, if that's possible, if we could stop the time. But other than that, maybe we could just go into questions. |
| 00:29:04.70 | Kristina Feller | Okay, Zoom team, let's go ahead and stop the time. Great, so 9.06 there. So you've got nine minutes, six seconds left for, you can reserve that for later for you and your team here. i'd like to open this up to the commission for any questions they might have of the applicants Um, commissioner Pierce. |
| 00:29:24.95 | Morgan Pierce | Yes, thank you, Chair Feller. What size are you suggesting that the board is going to be in the the Japanese blueberries be planted at, |
| 00:29:34.79 | Justin Anderson | I think a 26 inch. would probably be bad. |
| 00:29:38.57 | Morgan Pierce | Put it in the box. |
| 00:29:40.01 | Justin Anderson | Mm-hmm. |
| 00:29:40.29 | Morgan Pierce | And what height relative do you think that species would be in that size container? |
| 00:29:45.12 | Justin Anderson | It depends on which nursery you go to. I would recommend we probably go... |
| 00:29:47.30 | Morgan Pierce | to |
| 00:29:50.96 | Justin Anderson | There's a couple of choices. I think Devil Mountain Nursery is close to where |
| 00:29:51.68 | Sandra Bushmaker | is. |
| 00:29:56.54 | Justin Anderson | you guys are at in Sausalito or close enough to go pick it out. And we could go specifically there and pick out each individual plants. |
| 00:30:02.38 | Sandra Bushmaker | plan. |
| 00:30:03.50 | Justin Anderson | So, Anywhere from 12 feet to 15 feet would probably be about the size. And then obviously it takes some time to become acclimated to the soil before it starts shooting up in the air. It's a relatively quick growing tree, but also the benefit of it is it has quite a bit of width as well as height. So that's kind of more important, especially for blocking that particular fence. |
| 00:30:13.72 | Sandra Bushmaker | The oil. |
| 00:30:27.44 | Morgan Pierce | Right. And once it's acclimated, do you have a sense of what sort of growth rate it has? you know, |
| 00:30:32.03 | Justin Anderson | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 00:30:32.07 | Morgan Pierce | THE END OF THE END OF THE Yeah. |
| 00:30:33.62 | Justin Anderson | Yeah, a lot of it also depends. I mean, there's a certain amount that depends on, water, soil, microorganisms, things like that. But under ideal circumstances, it would grow between 12 inches to 36 inches a year But that's nothing set in stone. But you just try to make all the conditions as best as possible and then go from there. |
| 00:30:58.68 | Morgan Pierce | And the spacing that's indicated on the plans, do you think that's optimum for that species in this condition? |
| 00:31:04.16 | Justin Anderson | Thank you. Yeah, I think so. I think so. You wanna plant them properly and set them up with the appropriate irrigation. And then we might add some organic |
| 00:31:10.40 | Sandra Bushmaker | Thank you. |
| 00:31:10.46 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. |
| 00:31:10.57 | Sandra Bushmaker | Thank you. |
| 00:31:14.12 | Justin Anderson | of fish emulsion, possibly a micro-eriside application that allows it to take off quicker, which is basically an associative fungi with the roots. Anyway, I won't bore you with the stuff, but it just allows for it to become acclimatized that much quicker. which in this case is what's optimal. |
| 00:31:32.78 | Morgan Pierce | Great, thank you. Chair Fela, those are all the questions I have for the arborist. I do have some for the applicant, but I thought we might focus on the arborist At this moment, if the other commissioners have some questions for them. |
| 00:31:41.66 | Kristina Feller | Sure, we can do that. Commissioner Saad, do you have any questions for the Arborist? |
| 00:31:46.43 | Nastassya Saad | I'm not necessarily sure, thank you Chair Feller, how to ask this, but I was wondering if those particular trees offer Um, a way to also block the sound. If they're not just purely, we're looking at these from a, the intention to block the wall, the sound wall from a visual standpoint, but if they could, if they would contribute potentially to the sound. |
| 00:32:14.99 | Justin Anderson | They do have dense foliage, so it's a possibility that it could have some sound buffering aspects. As far as the specifics of that, it's a It's not something that I'm supremely qualified to answer because it's just I haven't done sound studies, like decibel readings, things like that. I know that just as a general rule, things that are denser foliage will tend to muffle the sound. They certainly won't take the place of a sound wall or something like that. But I guess the short answer would be yes, with explanations. |
| 00:32:50.64 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you, Chair Feller. That's all I have for the arborist. |
| 00:32:52.68 | Kristina Feller | Great. Thank you. Commissioner Luxenberg. |
| 00:32:57.29 | Jeffery Luxenberg | My question is similar on a range of like one to 10, Are these trees better with sound than others? Because obviously anything that would reduce sound would be a good thing. |
| 00:33:09.76 | Justin Anderson | Yes, of course. Well, As with most things, it's not a yes or no question. There's different there's different aspects that contribute to it. A lot of it has to do with its ability to grow properly. in this particular area. So that's a lot of what we take into consideration. So we find something that does well in this temperate zone that does partial shade or full sun or anything like that, that doesn't necessarily need a ton of water. So it's a little bit better environmentally. And it also has dense foliage and is attractive as well. So it has to tick quite a few boxes. But yes, it definitely falls into that category. Whether or not it's the absolute best for that circumstance, it's one of them. There's other considerations that go along with it. But it definitely, as far as what you're looking for, to do some sound buffering, it's a good choice. |
| 00:34:06.06 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Okay, thank you. |
| 00:34:07.34 | Justin Anderson | I'm not. |
| 00:34:08.18 | Richard Graef | A place to grab? |
| 00:34:08.23 | Justin Anderson | with all of them. |
| 00:34:08.86 | Unknown | Brown. |
| 00:34:09.23 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 00:34:10.38 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:34:10.43 | Justin Anderson | Thank you. |
| 00:34:10.88 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:34:10.92 | Justin Anderson | Thank you. |
| 00:34:11.47 | Richard Graef | Thank you. Yes, thank you. My question really has to do with the number of these trees that are suggested |
| 00:34:22.00 | Unknown | Mm-hmm. |
| 00:34:22.51 | Richard Graef | and the spacing and obviously given time they're going to fill out but um in your opinion, are Are there enough of them and are there space close enough together to provide a Good. visual barrier to the wall. That's really kind of what we're looking for. and I'm trying I was creeping. goes to, we're trying to make the wall go away. So we want to see green stuff. My question is, Is that enough? Is that planting enough or are there other supplementary plantings that go along with that. that would help screen the wall. |
| 00:35:10.93 | Justin Anderson | Um, Well, obviously instant gratification isn't necessary isn't necessarily possible with things that grow over time. So that's the obvious thing. |
| 00:35:21.32 | Unknown | So, you know. |
| 00:35:23.73 | Justin Anderson | From the planting, from the landscape plan I've been looking at, there's a ton of other things being added to the list. And to be honest, I've been asked to look into this tree specifically. So that's kind of what I prepared to talk about. As far as all the other plants that are planned around that area, I'm not in a position to really go into exhaustive detail. I'm not a landscape architect. I'm strictly here to kind of talk about this one specific tree. And once it's matured and grown, it's definitely will suit the bill. But there's a ton of things that I saw just as a cursory check that's going to be, that are going to be planted in the same area. There's going to be a lot of green and from what I It's going to be kind of like a whole mapped out area that's planned and landscaping is going to take shape. It just wouldn't make sense just to strictly plant 100 of these particular trees. It wouldn't make sense. They would out compete each other and it would look terrible. So it's good to have some variety. for aesthetics certainly and also to to basically accomplish exactly what you're asking about. |
| 00:36:33.38 | Kristina Feller | Great, thank you, Vice Chair Graff. I just have one final question because I think the other commissioners have covered this very, very well and exhaustively. Um, Are you aware that this tree, the Japanese blueberry species, is compatible with the other the other landscape plan that was done by the landscape architect. I mean, nothing's going to choke out any of the other selections that were made. |
| 00:37:00.01 | Justin Anderson | Normally, The only thing that I would be concerned with in regards to what you're talking about would be something called allelopathy. Okay. which is basically the leaves of a tree poison the understory, like redwoods do, acacia do, some eucalyptus, things of that nature. There's actually a couple of natural trees just over the fence, which fall into that category. So this particular species of tree is used in lots of different landscaping specifically because it does do fairly well. The berries attract wild birds. It's suited well to many different climates and it basically lands smack dab perfectly in the middle of our temperate zone, all the way down to like San Diego and up to Portland, Oregon. So that's one of the considerations as we were speaking before about why this is good for the use for sound buffering, things like that, because it's fairly well suited and tolerant to many different planting environments. So short answer. No, it'll go well with lots of different landscape design. As far as like designing what it looks like in the midst of this whole garden and everything, that's something I can't speak on because it's not my expertise. Yeah. |
| 00:38:09.92 | Kristina Feller | Okay, thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:38:11.30 | Justin Anderson | See you. |
| 00:38:12.35 | Kristina Feller | I have one more question, but it really is combination question between yourself and Mr. Burke. And that is it appears from what was submitted, these trees are really planted on one side. of the fence. |
| 00:38:29.91 | Unknown | Mm-hmm. |
| 00:38:30.27 | Kristina Feller | Is the applicant willing to plant anything on the other side of the fence to help buffer on the other side. |
| 00:38:40.87 | Justin Anderson | Are you asking me this question? |
| 00:38:42.40 | Kristina Feller | Well, I want to know if the species would do fine on the other side, and I'd like to know for Mr. Burke if he would be willing to consider that. |
| 00:38:52.59 | Justin Anderson | I think that should be addressed to them specifically. Um, I don't see a reason why it wouldn't, but honestly, when I did a site visit, I didn't take into consideration that question at all. So, |
| 00:39:02.87 | Sandra Bushmaker | Honestly. |
| 00:39:08.86 | Justin Anderson | I mean, I'm not quite sure. |
| 00:39:11.56 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 00:39:11.68 | Justin Anderson | because I didn't really look into it. |
| 00:39:11.71 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Mr. Burke, is that something you would be willing to consider? Oh, I think you might be on mute, Mr. Burke. Can we unmute? him. There we go. |
| 00:39:27.41 | Mr. Burke | Yeah, so yeah, obviously we would definitely, we would definitely like if that was a condition of approval, we would definitely be open to doing it. Just in speaking with the landscaper and in speaking, just in there's certain sections obviously because of the grade. where the wall's a lot taller. So that's kind of what we were trying to, we were kind of trying to address that specific, the height in those areas, cause that's sound like that's what you guys wanted, but yeah, 100%, we would be totally open to planting some more of those trees in other areas as well, as long as the arborist, Justin and the other area the landscapers said that it would work and it would all work together. |
| 00:40:08.31 | Kristina Feller | Okay, thank you for being flexible on that. I appreciate that. And then I had just, since I think we're just, and I think I think we're done with questions for you, but please don't go too far. I had one more for you, Mr. Burke, and then I'll ask the other commissioners if they have any for you that the applicant and property owner Um, And that is, you mentioned that you ordered this honey maple color. Um, I think we can all agree that what's there doesn't appear to resemble honey maple. based on the sample. So did you confirm or check that you actually got what you ordered? |
| 00:40:51.41 | Mr. Burke | No, I haven't because it wasn't an issue and it was never actually brought up. So no, we never confirmed the actual color. |
| 00:41:02.94 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 00:41:04.09 | Mr. Burke | Thank you. |
| 00:41:05.50 | Kristina Feller | All right, let's see, do other commissioners here questions for the applicant. Commissioner Luxenberg. Do you have questions for the applicant? |
| 00:41:14.87 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Uh, not... Thank you. |
| 00:41:16.03 | Morgan Pierce | No, not at this time. |
| 00:41:18.45 | Kristina Feller | Commissioner Pierce? |
| 00:41:19.91 | Morgan Pierce | Yes, thank you, Phil. I have one specific question. What does the warranty that is potentially voided by the painting cover specifically? Thank you. |
| 00:41:29.77 | Mr. Burke | and for help. |
| 00:41:29.85 | Morgan Pierce | and for how long? |
| 00:41:31.81 | Mr. Burke | They said it, it, it basically covers it's a 50 year warranty. And it covers, you know, if the acoustic mineral wool gets pulled out or if, If... I mean, I'm not sure exactly 100% exactly. |
| 00:41:52.92 | Mrs. Burke | Any kind of weather, like the tree was to fall on it or... |
| 00:41:54.37 | Mr. Burke | Yeah. |
| 00:41:57.41 | Mrs. Burke | you know, any kind of damage or you know, I don't know, mold. I mean, anything. It's a 50-year warranty that they they take pretty big pride in. |
| 00:42:10.54 | Mr. Burke | Yeah, and they also, you know, so we asked them if they're aware of anyone that has painted the wall before. And he said there was one person that they're aware of. And so then when I reached out to him and asked, well, is that, can you give us their contact info so that we could just talk to them and kind of see what, you know, see what they thought about that. He said, well, that was like seven years ago and it was so random and I don't even remember exactly who it was. And I believe I even asked, hey, can you just put that in an email for me? And then I sent that off to Justin as well. So I don't know if you guys saw that as well. but we're doing our best to try to figure out what that looks like. And like I said, you know, if you guys are saying, Hey, we want you to avoid the warranty and we want you to paint it. I mean, we're open to that. We're just nervous that, um, cause we have to disclose that obviously that we're voiding the warranty to the buyer. So we're just nervous that potentially that could lose the buyer. |
| 00:43:10.22 | Morgan Pierce | Well, this has been no problem in seven years, as far as we know. |
| 00:43:13.13 | Mr. Burke | What's that? |
| 00:43:14.21 | Morgan Pierce | At least there's been no problem in seven years, as far as we know. Yeah. |
| 00:43:18.85 | Kristina Feller | Yeah. |
| 00:43:20.11 | Morgan Pierce | That's all I have to hear, fellas. Thank you. |
| 00:43:21.53 | Kristina Feller | All right, thank you, Commissioner Pierce. Commissioner Saad? |
| 00:43:21.55 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. |
| 00:43:21.58 | Nastassya Saad | ALL RIGHT. |
| 00:43:21.77 | Morgan Pierce | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 00:43:26.02 | Nastassya Saad | I had the same question about the warranty. So I'm good now. Thank you, Chair Fowler. |
| 00:43:29.56 | Kristina Feller | Okay, great. Vice Chair Grau. |
| 00:43:32.43 | Richard Graef | I'm not sure. |
| 00:43:32.50 | Kristina Feller | I'm not. |
| 00:43:32.69 | Richard Graef | NO. |
| 00:43:32.77 | Kristina Feller | I'm not sure. |
| 00:43:32.80 | Richard Graef | I'm not sure. |
| 00:43:32.84 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 00:43:32.86 | Richard Graef | I'm not sure. |
| 00:43:33.02 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 00:43:33.04 | Richard Graef | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:43:33.23 | Kristina Feller | Um, |
| 00:43:33.58 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 00:43:34.26 | Kristina Feller | You're good. |
| 00:43:35.23 | Richard Graef | Not yet, not now. |
| 00:43:36.67 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Um, Great. Thank you so much. We still have nine minutes and six seconds on the clock. However, at this time We're going to open this matter up for public comment. And I'd like to ask Director Whalen to remind the public how they can raise their hand to make public comment And then Mr. Burke, after that, you and your team, if you have any final closing comments, we will hold that time till later. |
| 00:44:10.06 | Kristina Feller | Director Whelan. Thank you. |
| 00:44:11.70 | Director Whalen | Thank you Chair Feller. Now is the time for public Comment and participation. video or audio public comment participation is limited to three minutes per speaker. If you'd like to make a comment, please raise your hand in the Zoom application and you'll be called upon when it is your time to speak. To raise your hand from a phone, please press star nine. Each week will be notified when you have Um, When the time has elapsed and we will allow you to unmute yourself and share your video. If you have a presentation, we will need to adjust your settings to allow you to share your screen. So thanks for your patience. |
| 00:44:46.41 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Let's see. Do we have any raised hands at this time? |
| 00:44:56.59 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 00:44:56.62 | Director Whalen | Okay. I see one from John. |
| 00:45:01.41 | Kristina Feller | Excellent. |
| 00:45:01.67 | Director Whalen | one. |
| 00:45:01.95 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Can we unmute Mr. Ware and turn his video on? Welcome, Mr. Ware. You have three minutes for public comment this evening. Let's get you unmuted first, Mr. Ware. There we are. |
| 00:45:18.36 | John Ware | There we are. Can you hear me? |
| 00:45:19.30 | Kristina Feller | hear me? Yes. |
| 00:45:20.70 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 00:45:20.75 | John Ware | Okay. I am the new owner of 139 Curry Avenue, the home that Donna and David Stern had owned. So I'm very new. I'm not surprised I didn't receive anything from Mr. Burke and that's fine. I appreciate that they're putting up a sound wall. I'm a little puzzled why the manufacturer sent the wrong color and wouldn't be willing to send the right color. That's just a comment, I guess. And then my other question has to do with the blueberry trees. As they grow, they look like a really good idea for this application. But as they grow and they get taller, they will leave some exposed area at the trunk, at the ground level. And I just want to understand what kind of landscaping there will be below that to add at least a visual barrier to the white wall, presuming it stays white. |
| 00:46:19.33 | Kristina Feller | Thank you very much, Mr. Ware. Um, We can ask the applicant to address those later on when he can provide his closing remarks. Thank you very much for attending this evening. Let's see, I'm looking for any more hands from the public. If you'd like to comment on this item, please raise your hand through the Zoom application or on your phone. At this time I do not see any more hands raised. I'll go ahead and close public comment on this item. Thank you very much. Okay. Let's. If the applicant, Mr. Burke, if you'd like to make any closing comments there before we take this up on our version of Gaius. for discussion amongst the Commission, you're welcome to do so. |
| 00:47:13.49 | Mr. Burke | Yeah. Thank you. So We'll have the arborist answer that question for John because he'll have a better answer. We're you know, we're not I'm not 100% familiar with |
| 00:47:21.48 | Sandra Bushmaker | better hand. |
| 00:47:25.88 | Mr. Burke | just all the species and all that stuff. But I do know there's over 150. plants and trees that are being planted all along that area. And I guess just in closing, I would just say, obviously we appreciate you guys taking time on something like this. It's been, it's definitely been a journey over the last six years on, on this project. And, um, It's a... We're, you know, we're just, we're really hoping that, that there's a way that you guys can, can help us get through this so that we can. get this approved and just kind of kind of be done with this chapter of our life. It's been a very challenging build and a very challenging thing. And we're just excited to kind of move on. So we're just hoping that we've addressed everything that you guys have asked for. And, um, that you guys are willing to give us an approval. And even if it's with specific conditions or whatever it is, But, but you know, the buyers are very, very eager to close. And. with the temporary certificate of occupancy that we got based on this wall. pending. The only way that they're willing to close is if we're willing to put a half a million dollars in escrow which we just can't do. We just don't have it. There's just no way that we can do it. |
| 00:48:49.89 | Unknown | And. |
| 00:48:50.04 | Unknown | I do. |
| 00:48:52.13 | Unknown | is, you know, the |
| 00:48:55.37 | Mr. Burke | Um, So, it, So yeah, it's just kind of one of those things where I think you guys kind of already know the situation and it's not, we're not trying to be victims. We're not trying to give you a sob story or that stuff, but we're literally, we're just at the point where we just, depending on where this goes, we just, We just don't, we're not going to be able to float the thousand dollars a day anymore. And we're just, you know, potentially we might just have to walk from this whole thing. It's not what we'd want to do. It's kind of where we're at right now because we don't have the funds. So we're just hoping that we can kind of figure it out. That's it. |
| 00:49:30.42 | Mrs. Burke | Thank you guys so much for everything. We really appreciate it. |
| 00:49:34.28 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Mrs. I appreciate that. Okay, let's go ahead and... We'll move the discussion up to our virtual dais here. Would anyone like to start us off? with discussion. Vice Chair Graff. |
| 00:49:53.81 | Richard Graef | Yeah, I'd like to address the color of the wall. Clearly, it looks like they were given the wrong product. If they were given the right product, it would probably be Although they have Honey. Tarz. a little bright in my opinion. So I think the solution is to paint the wall Um, My suspicion is that Like most manufacturers. mess with their product at all, they void their warranty. But painting is I can't imagine that painting the sound of the sound. Um, um, quality. of the wall, as long as the openings to the material on the inside are not painted over. and their masks are screened. |
| 00:50:56.65 | Sandra Bushmaker | in. |
| 00:50:58.93 | Richard Graef | So I think I think the answer is, my opinion is that unless the manufacturer is willing to replace all those pieces Um, that painting is the way to go. And then that with the landscaping, I think would mitigate the appearance of the wall. which is just really unfortunate, but there it is. And I work that the whole wall be painted, the verticals as well as the horizontals to just kind of make it go away as much as possible. So that's kind of my take on it. |
| 00:51:37.20 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Commissioner Saad, what are your thoughts? |
| 00:51:43.11 | Nastassya Saad | I want to take us in a whole different direction, but I think after listening to the arborist and hearing about the overall landscaping plan, I might be the only odd one out. I'm not crazy about the concept of the wall. We're far past that. THE COLOR IS NOT So stark in my opinion I think the landscaping would be sufficient I'm not opposed to the painting of the wall, necessarily, but I just think from understanding what it's going to do for the homeowner and potential buyer, it seems a little drastic to cut a 50-year warranty to paint. So I'd be more than open to listen to everyone of course in our commission and maybe I might be a deciding factor here but I would think I would be okay if they did not paint the wall and went forward with the with the landscaping plan as described with those extra trees. |
| 00:52:43.23 | Kristina Feller | OK? Thank you very much, Commissioner Saad. Commissioner Luxenberg. |
| 00:52:48.45 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Uh... I'm sort of probably the lone one on this. But as I said the last time, I have great concern about the that this wall doesn't do its job. In fact, the butter says the wall is not appropriate and is not doing its job. And if you look at the sound report they just gave you, They took a sound reading on the freeway side of the wall and they took a sound reading adjacent to the abutters, the line next to the abutter that's the closest house and the sound is worse than it is on the other side of the wall. So therefore, I don't think this wall is doing its job. I think this owner has some possible recourse with the wall manufacturer. I agree with Commissioner Saad that they should not paint a wall that avoids a warranty. In fact, I don't think we should be making a requirement that they paint something that voids a warranty just unprecedented. I can't find the We also don't know what the paint will do to the sound. It may not have any effect on the sound. I realized that flipping the panels I don't know how to solve the problem that the wall created in the first place, but my solution here is remove the wall, put in landscaping, maybe even more landscaping, but the landscaping serve as a sound buffer. I walked down to the street and looked at the sound of about eight different locations. And the sound comes more from the end of the wall than it does from the wall itself. They removed the wall, and I don't think it's probably, it's at most 2 dB worse for location C, and I have a feeling once the landscaping goes in, They won't notice a difference with the wall gone That solves the color of the wall, it solves the warranty of the wall. It solves the, the, Um, Thank you. applicant's problem because They can just remove the wall. Alternatively, if they want a wall, put the original wood wall back in, but it was in the original proposal anyways. But I can't see justifying a variance for this, and I can't see making the design review findings for this. |
| 00:55:10.06 | Kristina Feller | Okay, thank you very much, Commissioner Luxenberg. Commissioner Pierce? |
| 00:55:14.36 | Morgan Pierce | Yes, thank you, Chair Feller. I believe all of my fellow commissioners have some useful commentary to provide or to add to this conversation and then uh i guess in in retrospect and just thinking about the concerns you've had in the past I still have some serious concerns about this. You know, obviously the follow up letter from a buddy neighbor shed some new light that coupled with the wrong finish being delivered and installed for a wall that was never approved, at least by the planning commission anyway, and in retrospect should have had some better acoustic testing done prior to its installation and following. But more importantly, I share concerns of Commissioner Luxenberg regarding the variance. Thank you. regardless of the wall, the fact that we're being asked to make findings for a variance for a essentially what's considered a band-aid for a house that was ill-designed for its site. Other houses in similar conditions were designed to turn their backs on the solid walls, more acoustical conditioning there. They don't have big openings that open onto those spaces attempting to gather outside adjacent to an eight lane freeway. it just seems absurd. Now we're being asked to sponsor a, a poorly conceived correction for this poor planning. I'm having a lot of difficulties with it in that regard. |
| 00:56:42.86 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Commissioner Pierce. Um, My comments are as follows. I can't get behind requesting any action. to void a warranty, particularly a 50 year one, which is almost unheard of. So I can't. behind that. |
| 00:56:57.69 | Sandra Bushmaker | I'm not. |
| 00:56:58.75 | Kristina Feller | I also similarly cannot get behind. pairing it out because this, well, a sound wall, was part of the original approval of this property by this body, although I was not on the commission at this time. |
| 00:57:14.47 | Sandra Bushmaker | Thank you. |
| 00:57:16.25 | Kristina Feller | It was part of the original. approval. So I cannot get behind that either. We are not in an ideal situation and I think there is compromise that has to be considered here. |
| 00:57:27.81 | Sandra Bushmaker | Thank you. |
| 00:57:27.83 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:57:27.86 | Sandra Bushmaker | I'm... |
| 00:57:31.20 | Kristina Feller | And for me, Um, the, the most direct way to do that is hide the sound wall with landscape. and have some conditional of approval that it's planted on both sides. and that there is some assurance that you know these trees will will thrive in that area and and should they not that they be replaced To me, that is the best out of a bad situation that we're in. The other option is to tear this down and build what was originally approved by this commission. I see those as the two options that are viable. So, |
| 00:58:13.83 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. And thank you, Chair Feller. And I guess just in reaction to that, I think I would state that the Planning Commission did approve a wall that was much less substantive in scale, scope and appearance than what has been built. An analogy to what has been built would be a builder adding another floor. and asking for a variance after the fact. and say, oh, well, I didn't know it was going to get that big. um, Again, I would be fine with the original wall. |
| 00:58:47.21 | Unknown | Mm-hmm. |
| 00:58:47.58 | Morgan Pierce | Again, I don't know if that's going to solve all the acoustical issues now that we've learned about all the broader implications. but I'm having a lot of trouble with the one that's there. |
| 00:59:00.42 | Kristina Feller | Yeah. Yeah, I could get behind just, I mean, this is something we offered to this applicant at the last hearing. |
| 00:59:08.30 | Sandra Bushmaker | Thank you. |
| 00:59:09.30 | Kristina Feller | is your you know one of your options is to tear down what you've built there which doesn't even remotely resemble what was approved. and build what was approved. And that way you don't even have to come back to this commission, just build what was approved. |
| 00:59:22.33 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 00:59:23.07 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:59:23.17 | Kristina Feller | done Vice Chair Graf. |
| 00:59:27.20 | Richard Graef | Yeah, I... that's the other option that, that I think is really a good one. I mean, the wall that's up there |
| 00:59:33.33 | Sandra Bushmaker | one. |
| 00:59:36.57 | Richard Graef | Uh, not only is it unattractive, it doesn't seem really providing that much. acoustic value. So the original wall probably somewhat less Thank you. value. It looks a lot better and that with the landscaping that's proposed there. the dense landscaping. is probably going to suffice, you know, just fine. And it'll look good. So, I would lean that way. |
| 01:00:07.74 | Kristina Feller | Okay. So, I mean, do I hear a motion here or is there further discussion required? Commissioner Saad or Commissioner Luxenberg? |
| 01:00:18.67 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Well, I have a question. I mean, if we reject the variance, then they have the option of coming in with the fence as originally the fence would be removed. And they have the option of coming in with the original fence. Thank you. |
| 01:00:35.19 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:00:35.26 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Do they also have the option of having no offense |
| 01:00:35.28 | Unknown | do. |
| 01:00:38.20 | Jeffery Luxenberg | or if we reject the variant. Where does that put them, is my question. |
| 01:00:46.03 | Kristina Feller | I'll ask Community Development Director Wayland to weigh in on this as well, but the wall that was originally approved the cedar wall was part of the approval of this project. Um, So my understanding is that unless they come back with another variance to have no wall, would there be no wall? But Director Whalen, do you wanna weigh in on that? |
| 01:01:14.95 | Director Whalen | I believe I might have the city attorney confirm my statement here, but I believe that the commission could, um, the applicant was willing to have this conversation with the commission, the commission could talk to the applicant about removing the wall and make that a part of this approval. And then the applicant would not. have to come back. You would be modifying... your original approval for the design review permit and the variance to remove the sound wall. I have a question and maybe Mary can confirm. |
| 01:01:48.26 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, if our city attorney wouldn't mind just confirming that for any avoidance of doubt, |
| 01:01:55.77 | Mary Wagner | Yeah, sure. I agree with your community development director. I'm not sure I understood Commissioner Luxembourg's question about if they remove the wall and what that does to the variance. but I don't think they need variants to remove them all, but I may have been misunderstanding the question. |
| 01:02:13.19 | Jeffery Luxenberg | What I was saying was they don't need a variance to remove the wall. What's before us is a request for a variance. And so if we reject that, if we turn down the request for the variance, Do, are they required to build the original wood wall? or was the wood wall even though in the original plans not a condition of the original approval. |
| 01:02:43.51 | Mary Wagner | My understanding is that the wall was part of the project that was submitted. So it was part of the approval, but it wasn't a condition of approval. So if the commission directs the applicant to remove the wall altogether. You have the ability to do that tonight. Thank you. |
| 01:02:58.06 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 01:02:58.19 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 01:02:58.34 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:02:58.41 | Mary Wagner | Okay. |
| 01:02:59.29 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Thank you very much. Yeah. Thank you, Mary. Thank you, Lou. |
| 01:03:06.34 | Kristina Feller | Okay, hopefully that that helps the commission here. I'm not so sure I'm still willing to say take the wall down without being very clear about what has to go in its place. And that would be quite a bit of landscape to shield any noise through vegetation rather than a wall. |
| 01:03:32.55 | Kristina Feller | Vice chair graphic. |
| 01:03:34.84 | Richard Graef | Yeah. I think the strategy of denying the variances is probably a good one. uh, then in order to satisfy the terms of their original approval. they would be required to put in to. approved as part of the project. seems to me that makes sense and that but I think Um, the case. And I think that's a good thing. would that is maybe keeping the vertical part. are much of the vertical part of that and taking out the sound boards or even leaving them and taking a bunch of them out and just sheathing it with nice wood. that looks like the original proposal. And that might even give them more acoustic value and create the fence that was originally approved. Um, Maybe that's, Not a great idea, but it would be one way to get there, maybe at minimum cost. |
| 01:04:48.37 | Kristina Feller | Okay, that's, that's an idea. Any anybody have any other thoughts? |
| 01:04:55.84 | Kristina Feller | Ms. Shoshan. |
| 01:04:56.86 | Nastassya Saad | I think From listening to my fellow commissioners and you Chair Feller I think I. THEIR OWNERS. also agree about approving original it's not approving the original design, but going back to the original design as well I think at least a few of us agree that painting is just. for president and it just doesn't make any sense. And I think it's simply unfair. So I wouldn't be able to get behind that. But I think if we want to go back to the original plans. the I don't know if that's something appropriate to I know it would be our ruling |
| 01:05:30.51 | Unknown | and it's a great day. |
| 01:05:32.26 | Nastassya Saad | but I don't know if we want to potentially discuss that with the property owner and just get some feasibility there. if that's appropriate or not, Chair Fowler, I look to you for that. |
| 01:05:41.84 | Kristina Feller | Sure, I think when we're finished deliberating here on our virtual dais, we'll certainly bring the applicant back once we can articulate what our direction is. |
| 01:05:52.04 | Nastassya Saad | Okay. |
| 01:05:52.71 | Kristina Feller | I'm not sure that the applicant fully understands what that might be, We're completely there yet. |
| 01:05:59.07 | Nastassya Saad | or? |
| 01:05:59.63 | Kristina Feller | I've heard a couple different proposals. One is take the wall out completely and plant. The other is leave the verticals, take the acoustic panels out and plant. at the third being rip out what's there and build what was approved. And then the final one is leave what they are but plant both sides of it to completely Very impressive. |
| 01:06:24.57 | Nastassya Saad | I would be behind three and four. |
| 01:06:27.49 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 01:06:28.17 | Nastassya Saad | Yeah. Thank you. That was a great summary. |
| 01:06:31.22 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Any other takers, I should ask, or any other thoughts? Maybe there's another option. I don't know. |
| 01:06:38.75 | Morgan Pierce | I don't know what three or four were, but based on what the City Attorney and Community Development Director offered in response to the original question, Chair in the interest of allowing the applicant to move forward without any further consideration from this body, which I think is what they want. Now, so we get confirmation of that when we bring them back up. I think the easy thing is to allow them to do one of two things, to either not to remove the wall, And... replaced with the wall that was originally approved, which wasn't a condition of approval, but was approved so it doesn't need to go through any more scrutiny. or not have any wall at all. And we can give them that we can allow them to not have any wall at all at this junction. The planting was originally specified to screen the wall. It wasn't specified necessarily to, you know, create some buffer for the highway. I would leave it up to them to create some buffer for the highway that they think is going to be adequate and attractive enough to help sell the property or close the deal that they have. There's adequate natural landscaping still up there to provide some green, but I would leave it up to them to provide adequate buffering if they chose a planted root. I do not want them to have to come before us again. |
| 01:07:50.21 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, I think we all agree on that. All of them. Good that we agree on that. Any other thoughts or is there a motion that someone would like to make? |
| 01:08:03.32 | Morgan Pierce | Well, do we want to have them up here to see if they have any |
| 01:08:04.03 | Kristina Feller | them up here to see |
| 01:08:06.16 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. |
| 01:08:07.51 | Kristina Feller | Well, let's let's make sure what the options are you you articulated to very, very well. |
| 01:08:08.07 | Morgan Pierce | Let's make sure. Thank you. |
| 01:08:14.58 | Kristina Feller | Um, |
| 01:08:15.02 | Jeffery Luxenberg | My... My suggestion is I'll make a motion that we deny the variance. We cannot make the findings and deny the variance. The staff could provide us language for that. But that will frame the question for the applicant, because if he knows that the variance is going to be denied, he basically has to then request removal of the wall as an option. If not, he has to put the original wood wall back. |
| 01:08:21.10 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 01:08:44.30 | Jeffery Luxenberg | So that sort of, just by denying the variance, it makes it very simple, I guess. That's my question. My point. |
| 01:08:52.38 | Kristina Feller | Right. So, Yes, vice chair Graf, please. |
| 01:08:56.11 | Richard Graef | Yeah, I, uh, . wonder if it might be time to bring the applicant in on the discussion since he's heard bunch of different proposals and options and thoughts. and see what his reaction is before we actually make a formal motion. |
| 01:09:17.93 | Kristina Feller | Sure, but just to be clear, because we've had four or five different options out here, and I think through our deliberation, some of those have been sort of put to the side. |
| 01:09:27.65 | Unknown | Correct. |
| 01:09:28.04 | Kristina Feller | So I think what we're looking at here, and you guys will correct me if I'm wrong, was back to commissioner Pierce's comments. Rip it out. build what was approved by this body by the planning commission or take it out entirely. and landscape. Did I say that correctly? |
| 01:09:51.65 | Morgan Pierce | Yes. Thank you. |
| 01:09:52.96 | Kristina Feller | Okay. No. Okay. Sounds like we're on the same page. So Mr. Burke, if I could ask you Mr. and Mrs. Burke to come come back up here virtually looks like you're unmuted if we can put your camera on Let's go ahead and discuss this. |
| 01:10:16.16 | Kristina Feller | So you have heard our deliberations up here. And we've boiled this down to really two options, either you need to remove what was built. Thank you. and put in place what was approved by the planning commission, which is the Cedar sound wall. Yeah. remove the wall altogether And then we'll have to. amend your planting to ensure that there's enough landscape there. I'm not sure. for that area. |
| 01:10:50.24 | Mr. Burke | I'm not sure. Yeah, so it's just hard to kind of know without talking to the buyer but i also don't want to waste any time because as everyone was saying we don't want to have to come back in front of you guys |
| 01:10:56.50 | Joseph Lillis | want to work. |
| 01:11:02.00 | Mrs. Burke | Thank you. |
| 01:11:02.17 | Mr. Burke | Our main goal is just to not lose this buyer. Right. |
| 01:11:06.03 | Mrs. Burke | I have a quick question. We, I'm just wondering if, you know, we took the wall down and built the one that was originally approved. if we're opening up kind of a can of worms again with The neighbors, the neighbors are happy. I mean, they're, they're, they're they're happy and I just want to make sure they stay happy. Um, Is there any amount of like more landscaping that you guys would be open to that we could maybe put behind it even to keep the wall up. Is that an option at all? |
| 01:11:45.84 | Mr. Burke | Or if not, if let's say the wall had to come down, which isn't necessarily an easy feat. Cause you gotta, you gotta get all that material. You gotta, you gotta take it to the dump, right? You gotta do all that stuff. And then you gotta grade and build new, but if for some reason we put that up and it changes the sound again for the neighbors. |
| 01:11:55.98 | Sandra Bushmaker | Thank you. |
| 01:11:56.03 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:11:56.06 | Sandra Bushmaker | to the |
| 01:12:03.47 | Mr. Burke | And now they're upset again. |
| 01:12:05.04 | Mrs. Burke | We're just worried about that. |
| 01:12:05.73 | Mr. Burke | read about. Thank you. What would happen there? Like how does, how does that work? because we really feel bad for them because they really, I mean, they couldn't sleep for a long time. And so we don't necessarily know, we just, We don't know. And if we did, if we, if we did put up the new wall, Does that mean like literally if that's the decision, we can, we can get started on that tomorrow. Cause we just, we don't have a lot of time to waste. So those would be our questions. |
| 01:12:30.64 | Joseph Lillis | tomorrow. |
| 01:12:31.06 | Mrs. Burke | Thank you. |
| 01:12:31.18 | Joseph Lillis | Thank you. |
| 01:12:36.16 | Mrs. Burke | Or any amount of trees that maybe we could even like kind of like put around the whole wall, like even more. Um, |
| 01:12:45.95 | David Parisi | on our property. of that. |
| 01:12:48.11 | Mrs. Burke | Thank you. |
| 01:12:48.58 | Kristina Feller | So just real quick, two things. First is, and we will repeat what we mentioned to you at the last hearing, If you took this wall down and built what, which was approved by this commission, you never have to come back here and you are building what was approved. So you're done. |
| 01:13:07.73 | Morgan Pierce | You could start tomorrow. |
| 01:13:08.98 | Kristina Feller | You can start to |
| 01:13:09.05 | Morgan Pierce | start to I'm not sure. |
| 01:13:10.79 | Kristina Feller | You're done. |
| 01:13:12.02 | Larissa | Thank you. |
| 01:13:12.05 | Morgan Pierce | Okay. |
| 01:13:12.36 | Larissa | Thank you. |
| 01:13:12.64 | Kristina Feller | as it relates to planting, one of the discussions we were having here on this virtual dais was planting both sides of that wall to completely basically mask it. That is not necessarily a favorite option by some of the commissioners here. Um, but if you had other ideas about this and any insight that would help this commission understand that we would love to hear that. |
| 01:13:42.72 | Mr. Burke | Um, I think, |
| 01:13:44.37 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 01:13:44.57 | Mr. Burke | I think the best, probably quickest, easiest option at this point is just going to be to tear the wall down and put the originally approved one up. There definitely has to be a wall there just based on the freeway and the privacy issues and all that stuff. I don't think having no wall would be a good option for any potential buyer just being right there on the freeway like that. So I guess for us, if those are our options, we would choose taking it down. |
| 01:13:44.66 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 01:14:12.40 | Mr. Burke | and putting up the originally approved. |
| 01:14:15.05 | Mrs. Burke | and approved landscaping. |
| 01:14:16.89 | Mr. Burke | in the originally approved landscape. |
| 01:14:18.81 | Kristina Feller | All of that was already approved. |
| 01:14:21.55 | Mr. Burke | Yeah. |
| 01:14:21.97 | Kristina Feller | As long as you implement what was already approved, then, then there is absolutely no need to come back to this body. |
| 01:14:29.56 | Mr. Burke | Okay. Thank you. |
| 01:14:30.54 | Kristina Feller | Yeah. |
| 01:14:31.18 | Mr. Burke | I think that would be our choice then at this point. |
| 01:14:31.21 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 01:14:33.78 | Mr. Burke | if it can't stay up. |
| 01:14:33.98 | Kristina Feller | All right. One minute, Mr. and Mrs. Burke. Vice Chair Graff has a question here. |
| 01:14:40.46 | Richard Graef | Okay, my question gets back to my idea that I proposed and that is as long as I think that's a good question. end up with. looks like what was approved you might be able to do that without completely tearing out the structure, bones of the wall that you put in. and just use the existing structure and modify it and put the boards on and make it look like what was approved That seems to me that might be a little less radical approach and it would get you there and that might, as long as the appearance is correct, that might get by the rest of the commissioners. At least it would get by me. |
| 01:15:26.04 | Mr. Burke | And is that, so just to be clear, you're talking about leaving the steel beams and taking the slats out. So I guess the question would be, |
| 01:15:31.04 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 01:15:36.84 | Mr. Burke | Yeah, I mean, if that would be, you know, if we could figure out how to do that, that would be ideal because that's |
| 01:15:40.81 | Richard Graef | would be ideal. Yeah, you could cut the beams off. Yeah. |
| 01:15:44.52 | Unknown | you Thank you. Thank you. |
| 01:15:45.31 | Richard Graef | to work. |
| 01:15:45.50 | Unknown | to work. |
| 01:15:45.72 | Richard Graef | So thank you. Yeah, no sense taking it all out and starting from scratch is my point. |
| 01:15:51.89 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 01:15:52.03 | Richard Graef | That would be too much of a burden, or it would be an extra burden. |
| 01:15:56.20 | Unknown | Yeah. It'd be a lot of, |
| 01:15:56.38 | Richard Graef | Yeah. I'm going to go. |
| 01:15:57.55 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 01:15:57.65 | Richard Graef | Yeah. |
| 01:15:57.70 | Kristina Feller | a lot of ways. |
| 01:15:57.72 | Richard Graef | I'm not sure. |
| 01:15:58.04 | Unknown | waste. |
| 01:15:58.74 | Richard Graef | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 01:15:59.00 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 01:15:59.03 | Richard Graef | Yes. |
| 01:15:59.42 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:15:59.91 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 01:16:00.03 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, the caveat there again is what was approved |
| 01:16:00.08 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 01:16:04.94 | Kristina Feller | was an eight foot high fence. |
| 01:16:07.44 | Unknown | Mm-mm. |
| 01:16:07.79 | Kristina Feller | that was not staggered it was a direct flat slope down. So again, as long as you are building what was approved. then you're done. Okay. |
| 01:16:23.16 | Mr. Burke | Okay. And those steel beams even though those weren't originally part of the original approval, I don't believe. |
| 01:16:32.14 | Mrs. Burke | But if they're covered, you're saying, It's fine with wood. |
| 01:16:37.15 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, I don't believe that we got into, although I was not on the commission at that time just to be very clear, I think Commissioner Pierce was, I don't believe we got into the, inner structure of of offense did did did this body do that commissioner pierce |
| 01:16:53.98 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. I believe there was a construction detail for the fence, but I would suggest to the, applicants that if there was a way to to utilize some of the existing structure to mimic what was proposed originally that it should be. I mean, it should be near close enough. Yeah. |
| 01:17:11.24 | Mrs. Burke | Thank you. |
| 01:17:11.36 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 01:17:11.43 | Mrs. Burke | Thank you. |
| 01:17:11.44 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 01:17:12.84 | Morgan Pierce | Okay. |
| 01:17:12.96 | Kristina Feller | That's a good idea. |
| 01:17:13.25 | Mrs. Burke | Thank you. |
| 01:17:14.61 | Kristina Feller | Okay. So it seems like that would be the direction. Just so Mr. and Mrs. Burke you're clear, we are actually gonna deny your variance requests and instruct you, to build what was originally approved with your project. Okay. Okay, all right, thank you. Thank you very much. |
| 01:17:38.68 | Morgan Pierce | Do we need to go through an official motion of denial? |
| 01:17:41.92 | Kristina Feller | Let's go, yeah, we do for the record, unfortunately. |
| 01:17:43.27 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. which is so good. |
| 01:17:46.10 | Kristina Feller | If you'd like to make one commissioner Pierce. |
| 01:17:49.63 | Morgan Pierce | I'll be happy to. I'm looking for the, let's see. I make a motion that we deny the variance request for uh, uh, application MOD. It was a various modification request. 2021-0039, modification of DRVA16-314, Um, Motion to deny. |
| 01:18:18.62 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 01:18:18.77 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. |
| 01:18:18.89 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Do I have a second? up. Thank you, Vice Chair. Director Malin, could you call the roll? |
| 01:18:24.58 | Director Whalen | I can. One clarification, commissioners, if you'll indulge me here. the, um, just understanding that the emotion includes, um, reference to the, um, the wall The original wall approved by the planning commission being the wall that can be constructed. And then the other clarification I wanted to make is the so the applicant. So we'll be looking at the original wall that the Planning Commission approved. |
| 01:18:54.23 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:18:54.77 | Director Whalen | there there should be a building permit associated with that wall as well and so the applicant should as indicated tonight be able to start construction soon because they should have the permits but we'll we will need to verify that so mr burke if you could please work with the building inspector on that that'd be great |
| 01:18:57.01 | Unknown | I'm not. |
| 01:19:13.47 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 01:19:14.51 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 01:19:14.53 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 01:19:14.63 | Kristina Feller | you |
| 01:19:14.68 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 01:19:15.27 | Kristina Feller | All right, so we have a, let's call the roll, Director Whelan. |
| 01:19:19.35 | Director Whalen | Commissioner Assad? Yes. Commissioner Luxenberg? |
| 01:19:22.85 | Don Cravens | Yes. |
| 01:19:23.51 | Director Whalen | Commissioner Pierce. |
| 01:19:24.52 | Don Cravens | Yes. |
| 01:19:25.14 | Director Whalen | Do I share graphs? Thank you. |
| 01:19:26.24 | Don Cravens | Thank you. |
| 01:19:26.26 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 01:19:26.29 | Don Cravens | Thank you. |
| 01:19:26.32 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 01:19:26.34 | Don Cravens | Thank you. |
| 01:19:26.44 | Director Whalen | Thank you. And Chair Feller? Yes. That carries five zero to deny this request. Any person may file an appeal of the Planning Commission's decision within 10 days of this decision. If you have any questions, please contact the Community Development Department. |
| 01:19:47.35 | Kristina Feller | Great, can you read the next item on our agenda this evening? |
| 01:19:50.94 | Director Whalen | Yeah, so the next item is 4B and it's an appeal of a community development department decision regarding Accessory Dwelling Unit permit at 88 George Lane. We have Assistant Planner Larissa Olchen who will be giving the staff presentation. I also wanted to remind the Planning Commission We don't have appeals very often, so just remind you of the appellant applicant presentation. So we'll have a Staff presentation first, then planning commission questions for staff. Then the appellant presentation is limited to 10 minutes per team. The applicant will then go and they're limited to 10 minutes per team. And then there's public comment, three minutes per speaker. five minutes each for the appellant and then the applicant for a rebuttal. And then the planning commission will discuss and deliberate and make a decision. Thank you and welcome, Larissa. Thank you. |
| 01:20:43.04 | Larissa | Thank you. Thank you, Commissioners. Let me share my screen. Is everyone seeing my PowerPoint? |
| 01:20:51.27 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 01:20:51.63 | Larissa | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 01:20:51.80 | Kristina Feller | Yeah. |
| 01:20:51.98 | Larissa | Yes, thank you. |
| 01:20:52.27 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 01:20:53.36 | Larissa | So this is a presentation on the appeal of the approved permit for an accessory dwelling unit at 88 George. The project would be located on a lot with an existing single family residence. It's zoned our dash or R16 and it's a 9,572 square foot parcel. The existing single family home is $1,737. square feet. And there are four off-street parking spaces, two of which are tandem on the lot. The proposed ADU is a 780 square foot ADU with five foot setbacks at the rear and side. The building height is 14 feet. and there is one provided parking space that is existing for the ADU. These are some of the project plans and elevation from the the West elevation and the north elevation below. You can see from the plans that it's kind of built into the hillside. at this property. and this is the east elevation which looks towards the property of the the appellate at 84 George. and the South elevation. which, is towards 90 Georgia. Staff conducted a site visit in February, following some communication with the neighbors. I met with both direct neighbors that day and took a couple of photos and spoke with them. Um, this top this photo here. is from the lower level at 84 George, looking up towards where the proposed ADU is. proposed to go. And this is the ADU project site with the StoryPulse. So the ADU is proposed above this cardboard. The appeal, following approval on February 11th by the Community Development Director, An appeal was filed within those 10 days. on February 18th. that we're going to be from the adjacent neighbor at 84 George. which is here. |
| 01:23:23.52 | Larissa | They submitted a grounds of appeal form with the city and paid the fees. I'll go over the grounds of appeal included on that form. The first issue was the issue of privacy. and staff found that there There are the grounds of appeal I think I might have missed the slide. Bye. This slide goes over what the permitting process for ADU is. It's administered. serial approval according to the government code and Sausalito municipal code. There's no discretion allowed if the standards are met. The standards are found in the Municipal Code 1044-080-622-1212 B1. and any application for an accessory dwelling unit that meets the accessory dwelling unit permit standards |
| 01:24:12.19 | Sandra Bushmaker | in the future. |
| 01:24:17.59 | Larissa | contained in that section shall be approved administratively without discretionary review or public hearing within 60 days. of receiving the application. So the Community Development Department reviewed the application And we determined that it met accessory dwelling unit standards listed in the municipal code. |
| 01:24:40.77 | Larissa | So these are the grounds of appeal. There is the privacy issue. So, reviewed that. issue that was brought up in the appeal form. And, we determined that the accessory dwelling units that we're going to be doors and windows are not directly opposite. the doors and windows and exterior living spaces of the property. directly next door, either at 84 or 90 George. um, The privacy standard we've looked at. So we looked at the windows and doors on all the adjacent properties. The death. at the and patios. along the bottom here and this this house here is a little bit lower in level. So the windows are not They're about at the level of the driveway. And there are two windows on the side of the ADU, one about here. and one about here. |
| 01:25:42.82 | Larissa | The applicant 84 George included some additional screening on their patio design, these louvers. along the patio here. And here. provide some extra screening and privacy. |
| 01:26:00.57 | Larissa | And these are the two windows that face 84 George, which is the applicant, the appeal applicant's address. |
| 01:26:13.05 | Larissa | Here's some additional photos from the property. looking towards 84, George. These ones are looking towards the back of the property. It's all wooded. and we're not going to be which have no viewing package. and then these ones towards 90, George. looking from the top of the carport. |
| 01:26:39.42 | Larissa | Another ground of appeal was um, filed by Mr. Miller was the destruction of property because of the removal of trees. uh, THE staff determined that this is not an objective standard. that can be looked at during the appeal process. There is a tree removal permit being filed tonight and will be heard later. for the removal of three trees on the subject property that are in the building envelope. of the ADU. |
| 01:27:13.44 | Larissa | and I think that's another appeal area was the excavation of the hillside. staff. looked at that and also communicated that this is not an objective development standard and if a grading permit is required, you know, if they disturb 50 or more cubic feet, they will need to get a permit for that with the public works. So, I think that's a good question. was also brought up because of destruction of lots of privacy, allowing multifamily lot in a residential neighborhood This is not also an objective development standard that can be addressed. And so the second that we thought would be a good could qualify for a review. tonight is the parking standard. THEIR HISTORY. Street congestion is not an objective standard, neither is safety issues. what the parking standard is, we found that the parking standard was met |
| 01:28:17.08 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:28:17.36 | Larissa | which we thought in both ways getting parking they got a parking space the one parking space that is required every there. providing that. And staff had determined earlier that they would get an exception also. It was brought to our attention that they are slightly I'm not sure. slightly farther away from the transit spot than we thought. So because of the windy roads, it's 0.6 miles. They don't qualify for the exemption, but they already are providing an extra spot. That spot is a tandem spot. but it is allowed with the code. through tandem parking, we're allowed to provide parking for an ADU. |
| 01:29:06.37 | Larissa | The property line dispute was another issue that was raised. This is not a development standard that can be reviewed for an ADU. There was no competing survey filed with the dispute. from the neighbor. And there was a survey, a boundary survey done with the original application. project, the last one was the spirit of an ADU code. which is not a development standard. cannot be addressed during this appeal. So staff respectfully recommends that the planning commission deny the appeal and uphold the community development department's approval of the project. based on applicable state law and city municipal code. The only basis to uphold the appeal and overturn staff's decision is that the Planning Commission believes that the project does not meet the standards. met. set forth in the municipal code. and therefore requires this restringary review. |
| 01:30:09.06 | Sandra Bushmaker | there. |
| 01:30:12.13 | Larissa | by the Planning Commission. All right. And then any questions? |
| 01:30:19.67 | Kristina Feller | Thank you so much, Larissa. Thank you for a very thorough report and for pulling that together for us. Really appreciate that. I want to ask the commissioners if they have any questions for staff at this time. Um, so I'm just going to ask sort of in the order I see you on my screen, at least, uh, commissioner Saad, do you have any questions for Larissa? |
| 01:30:42.15 | Nastassya Saad | I just have a general question just maybe as a newer member to this board is when an application is received I'm not sure. only the boundary, the boundary survey is, the standing measure. There's no extra due diligence maybe from the city or from an, from another party that would confirm the survey, do you know how that works? |
| 01:31:12.63 | Larissa | Lily, do you want to step in on that one? |
| 01:31:13.99 | Director Whalen | I can jump in here. Thanks. So typically, no, unless we usually if we get a I... someone who is alleging that there's an issue with the survey, then the city would get involved in that, especially if there's competing surveys. And we've had that happen before. this project, there were no other surveys that were provided disputing the survey that was provided for this ADU. Does that answer your question? |
| 01:31:47.46 | Nastassya Saad | Yes, I think so. Thank you. THANK YOU. um, Chair Feller. |
| 01:31:53.33 | Kristina Feller | Great, thank you very much. Commissioner Luxenberg. |
| 01:31:58.07 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I have a question regarding the privacy, but I want to wait for the presentation by both the the appellant and the applicant, so, and I'll ask it later. |
| 01:32:10.48 | Kristina Feller | Okay, so no questions for staff at this time? |
| 01:32:12.11 | Jeffery Luxenberg | No questions for |
| 01:32:13.02 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. |
| 01:32:14.00 | Kristina Feller | Very good. Thank you. Commissioner Pierce. |
| 01:32:17.87 | Morgan Pierce | I had only one question. Did the impellant invite the... PC to planning commission to assess the privacy concerns from their property. I don't recall seeing an invitation. |
| 01:32:29.44 | Larissa | No, I don't have any communication for that. |
| 01:32:32.72 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. That's my only question. |
| 01:32:34.30 | Larissa | Thank you. |
| 01:32:35.05 | Kristina Feller | Joyce Chair Ground. |
| 01:32:37.24 | Richard Graef | The only question I had was, Um, They |
| 01:32:42.52 | Sandra Bushmaker | to you. |
| 01:32:43.13 | Richard Graef | the screening, the louvers. clear where that is. Is that on the ADU property or on the neighbor's property? I wasn't clear about that. |
| 01:32:56.65 | Larissa | It's on the ADU property on the patio, which will be above where the carport is. |
| 01:32:59.66 | Richard Graef | And... |
| 01:33:03.29 | Larissa | Basically, it'll be on top of the carport. |
| 01:33:05.76 | Richard Graef | Is it, facing the neighbor property. |
| 01:33:10.73 | Larissa | It's facing, I think just 90, George. uh, I'm not sure if it's facing I'd have to pull up the plans again. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. |
| 01:33:22.48 | Richard Graef | I just don't remember seeing it on the plan. Okay. |
| 01:33:25.92 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I think Larissa is facing both sides. |
| 01:33:26.48 | Larissa | Thank you. Oh, okay. Yeah. So it's at both the corners. Thank you. |
| 01:33:32.54 | Kristina Feller | I'm not sure. |
| 01:33:32.71 | Larissa | Thank you. |
| 01:33:32.72 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Any other questions, vice chair? No. Okay. Well, thank you, Commissioner Pierce for asking the question, because I don't recall being for 84 George being made available. But I did spend some time looking you know, down to their property. So the question to staff, is can you, for also the benefit of the public here, the grade difference between sort of the where the adu is going for the top of that where some of the the two windows are It is quite a lot. higher in elevation than 84 George, or at least the dwelling area and the patio area. You have a rough calculation of what that would be. Is that about 10 feet, 10 feet plus? |
| 01:34:29.96 | Larissa | I don't have a rough calculation. It's hard to tell from the plans and when you go to the site because the ADU is going to be built into that hillside so and some of the locations on the hillside if you're back there You're basically standing about where the roof will be. of the ADU. So it's, you know, the back window, which I think is the bedroom window along that side halfway covered by the, by the hillside. |
| 01:34:54.75 | Kristina Feller | I'm going to go ahead and get a |
| 01:34:57.74 | Larissa | and |
| 01:35:01.32 | Kristina Feller | Okay, and with this ADU application that went through the ministerial review, were there specific finishes or particularly for those two windows that are on the what I would suppose to be the east side of 88 facing 84. Any finishes? |
| 01:35:27.05 | Larissa | There was a finish for a private, like a privacy screening on the window that was, proposed for the living room area. like a film. |
| 01:35:37.45 | Director Whalen | Yeah. |
| 01:35:38.59 | Larissa | was proposed at one point. I'm not sure. it doesn't show up in the new plans after the louvers were added. I don't know if that's still a proposal, but you know, offering. um, So that was proposed at one point. |
| 01:35:54.86 | Kristina Feller | Okay, terrific. Thank you. Thank you very much for that. Um, Do you have any other questions for staff at this time? Okay, let's go ahead and ask the appellant to turn on their cameras and microphones for presentation Again, just to recap with Director Whalen, had mentioned there's 10 minutes for your presentation for your entire team. So if you want to split that up between a couple of teammates, Um, Let's go ahead. Is it Mr. Dersham? Are you providing the presentation? Okay, is there anybody else? presenting with you that we should unmute now. Okay. So let's turn off, just turn on your microphone. So hopefully you can see the comments clock and welcome and the time is yours. |
| 01:36:56.20 | Daniel Dersham | I would like to share my screen for a PowerPoint if that's okay. |
| 01:37:02.16 | Kristina Feller | Absolutely. Zoom team, can you assist Mr. Dersham doing so? |
| 01:37:10.18 | Kristina Feller | We'll start your clock once you're able to do that. It looks like you're co-host now, so you should be able to do that. |
| 01:37:19.03 | Daniel Dersham | Okay. Let's see if this works. Hold on a second. |
| 01:37:25.73 | Daniel Dersham | Okay, thank you, commissioners. My name is Daniel Dersham. I represent the appellate. I'm with Lerman Law Partners in San Rafael. I'm going to start with talking about the intent in the recitals of the ordinance for the ADUs specifically mentions that they will not aggravate or create neighborhood problems and I raise that only because The owner of 88 George Lane, who doesn't live there and has never lived there, has not engaged the surrounding neighbors to see if the project would be acceptable or what problems might present. I want to be clear though that the appellant does not object to an ADU. or the owner's right to build one on his property only to the project as submitted. And we're only going to talk about tonight two categories, privacy and setbacks. And what we're asking in that regard is that the ADU be at least four feet from neighboring property lines and must reasonably and appropriately account for the privacy of its neighbors. So on property lines, we went through this a little bit in this city presentation, four feet, the city decided there was a five foot setback, grounds for appeal, that the property line was disputed, that the ADU has proposed would encroach on 84 George Lane's property and the setbacks, of course. And so the city responded that property line dispute is not an objective development standard. A boundary survey was provided by the applicant. |
| 01:38:32.93 | Sandra Bushmaker | Thank you. |
| 01:38:50.35 | Daniel Dersham | uh and it was not actually and we'll go into that in a minute but no competing survey was filed to dispute the boundary survey and i raise that to say that effectively shifts the burden to neighboring owners to hire a surveyor to and and present it in in order to prevent someone from saying what their property is or is it uh in in the course of this approval process which just want to note that that's why we're doing this at this point on this argument regarding the property lines though let me show you The blue line is the claimed property line from the plans. Okay, here's the footprint of the ADU. Over here is our client's property, 84 George. The purple is the estimated property line by our client. And the reason is right about here is a corner monument that we've found on site visits suggesting that's the corner boundary. The green line is our client's fence line. Okay. trees on the other side of this fence line that the appellant or sorry, the applicant is asking to remove as part of this project, by the way. But so from here, Two here is about 18 inches and in total from the claimed from the monument marker to the claim boundary line is about four feet. So that is a good faith dispute at this point. Um, We also have confirmed that suspicion by visits by Appellants Arborist whose report has been included and hopefully distributed to the commissioners tonight as well as Appellants ADU experts who performed a site visit as well and noticed the corner monuments. |
| 01:40:38.02 | Daniel Dersham | So I want to point this out here because the city mentioned that there was no competing surveys presented. The applicant's own application contains competing surveys. Here is the last page of their submitted applications. showing the corner of the here's our client's land here at Miller that's our client this is the subject property here we go four corners and that's where we believe the corner monument is yeah on another page here we have it is the same thing but offset and oh this is also the five foot setback claimed by the applicant. So We think that together the corner monuments, the existing fence line, which is here and indicative of how the property owners have historically understood the property line And now the competing surveys within the applicant's own application suggests a good faith dispute about the property line and the city cannot approve The setbacks cannot confirm setbacks without, with a existing boundary dispute at hand. I also want to mention here, I mentioned trees before. So here is one tree, number four, which is within this disputed zone, right? So here is, property line that our client believes and here is the property line the applicant's claiming and in between it's the fence and right here is a treaty the applicant is saying they're going to remove And here is a number three, tree number three. This is from the applicant's arborist report that you'll see in our arborist report is gonna be threatened by virtue of this project as well as some other trees. so the bottom line on property lines is that i don't see how the city can proceed without resolving the the survey issue and the boundary line dispute so we would request that the city require as a condition of this continuation of this process or continue the hearing uh until the applicant uh provides a professional survey |
| 01:42:40.03 | Sandra Bushmaker | continue to do. |
| 01:42:47.71 | Daniel Dersham | So moving on to privacy, here is our client. I think you saw this from the city's presentation. Here's the ADU's footprint. And I note here, as the city did, these are the view lines, the perspectives from our client's house. And as you'll see, this is all open window. This is open deck here. And you'll see it comes right into his master bedroom and bathroom that you can see these windows here where this ADU would be. |
| 01:43:17.36 | Daniel Dersham | So here is a picture. This is the side view. We've attempted to use this eastern elevation drawing provided in the applicant's plans to show something about what it would look like. It's obviously not an accurate representation. We're not claiming it. As such, we're only showing for the location of the deck and the windows as the city mentioned, but also to show, and here's a picture without that superposition. the the foliage here ends, it is not a continual all the way to where the end of the ADU would be. And also it's not, it's, it's somewhat transparent as you can see. There is not full coverage there. So here's the side, this is the deck. The city mentioned there was some question about privacy screen you put up, trellises and whatnot. That's an absolute, that's not correct. That is only, that was only put in on the side of 90 George. and to benefit the main unit it is there's none proposed on this side whatsoever there's just this metal picket four foot high fence along the deck and then of course there's this window which is the city mentioned there is nothing mentioned about screening for those windows So just quickly, here's some views from our clients master bathroom. And here's the area in question here. Here's the deck and spa. from the Deccan Spa. the hall window from the master bedroom. This is from the guest bathroom, same area here. Inside the kitchen, same thing here. dining room, patio. And this is looking from the site, the property line where the ADU would be. And you can see, look down, here's our client's house directly into, you know, a good portion of their house and their outdoor patio here. Same thing here. So on this, the criteria is, as the city mentioned, the ADU has to be designed so that its exterior windows, decks, and doors are not directly opposite the exterior living areas or and doesn't overlap windows or doors to the interior living areas of the adjoining properties. But the city decided that the flag configuration of the parcel, which I'm not familiar with that, phrase the vegetation the neighborhood adequately screens the subject property from neighboring properties in addition exterior windows doors and decks are not directly opposite the exterior living areas and the proposed deck will provide additional privacy screening okay and so we mentioned privacy in our grounds of appeal of course Thank you. The city staff argument in its staff report noted that the staff determined exterior windows, doors, and decks are not directly opposite the exterior living areas when you join in properties. And that there was additional privacy screening that went above and beyond the code. and specifically on the Northeast property line, which is the line that borders my client's property. And then mentioned that dense vegetation in the neighborhood was sufficient mitigation for privacy concerns, basically providing the privacy screening in question. |
| 01:46:23.69 | Sandra Bushmaker | Thank you. |
| 01:46:35.84 | Daniel Dersham | So the appellant's response is the existing vegetation is not sufficient as it currently stands to effectuate privacy screening from his property. And the city cannot rely on existing vegetation, which only has partial coverage at that, to address privacy. Vegetation is seasonal, varying thickness and cover. It can die or be removed. and furthermore our and I urge the commissioners to read this report if you haven't from our arborist that the excavation and creation of this ADU unit would threaten the surrounding trees on our clients property and I know that's not that's a separate issue separate permit but it does undermine the idea that the city saying well the existing vegetation provides the screening So the bare minimum, we would ask that the city implement and require privacy walls sufficient to address privacy concerns. and grant this appeal. Thank you. Now, I'd be happy to take any questions. |
| 01:47:34.18 | Kristina Feller | Yeah. Thank you very much, Mr. Dersham. um we are now going to um go ahead and ask the applicant to come up and give their Presentation. And then Mr. Dersham, we will, we're going to come back to you, but we're going to have both, both presentations now. So is the Larissa, perhaps you can help me. Is the applicant for the ADU available here? |
| 01:48:09.06 | Larissa | I believe Benjamin Sparrow is going to give a presentation. |
| 01:48:13.14 | Kristina Feller | OK, there we go. Good evening, Mr. Farrell. Welcome. Do you need to share your screen? |
| 01:48:21.04 | Ben Farrell | I don't know yet. We'll find out as I go through this. |
| 01:48:21.31 | Kristina Feller | I don't know. Okay, so just in case Mr. Farrell does, Zoom team, could I ask that you, make that available to him now, should he need to turn it on in the, There we go. to ensure that you're not using your time to try to do that. So you have 10 minutes this evening to give your presentation. you and your team. So welcome. |
| 01:48:50.84 | Ben Farrell | Right. My name is Ben Farrell, I'm a project architect. the The information that's just been presented to us is all new to me. Some of it is inaccurate and working off of old project documents for the project, I think that the main thing that we're here to focus on is the issue of privacy. It's a highly subjective issue if we can establish the criteria for what constitutes lack of privacy that would be be great, but I think that we will never quite land on that. I'm not sure. we have spent the last two and a half years responding to this is the primary issue that we could address from an architectural standpoint. Um, The project had been redesigned three times. We're actually looking at the third or fourth iteration of this project. It's been approved twice. It's been noticed twice. the Issue of privacy was addressed primarily with the same mechanism that we were using to separate the ADU from the main house. We have these vertical louvers. that block primary sight lines between existing fenestration on the main house and the proposed fenestration on the ADU. when the um, when the project went through final review at the planning stage, We were asked to address privacy then also for the adjacent neighbor to the east. and provided vertical louvers at the east side of the deck. These are in excess of six feet tall. They should provide. adequate buffer for sight lines to the deck There is an abundance of foliage between the two properties. This is somewhat obvious in the photographs. I have spent time on that house, although not in the last year and a half, crawling through the hillside and through the foliage myself. specifically to try to identify features on the adjacent properties so that I could locate them on my drawings. I'm not sure. That in itself was a difficult exercise, so I can't imagine that casual observance between the properties would be much of an issue, but again, this is subjective, all based on personal opinion. The house is recessed slightly into the hillside as much as possible. in keeping the roof line free of the top topography lines along the back edge. that in itself precludes most of the opportunity for fenestration on the east side. So we do have one required window at the bedroom. That's a code requirement for a rescue window at a bedroom. And we have a the secondary window at the living room to face these No particular reason other than it made sense there. Sorry, hold on one second. |
| 01:51:49.23 | Unknown | Bye. |
| 01:51:51.76 | Ben Farrell | That's my very busy client trying to reach me right now. I'm sure he's wondering if I'm in this meeting. Um... Um, So the appeal was filed not to us as the project sponsors directly, but to the city as an appeal of the approval. So I feel that the issue of privacy as a subjective matter is between the city and the appellant in this case, we have said that we would do, you know, within reason, mitigation measures as part of the design to address whatever we whatever is felt to be. the main avenue for observance between the two properties. Um, I don't have too much more to say on that. And in the interest of time, I'll probably reserve the rest of my time to respond later on. As far as the property line setbacks, Um, We have a survey that was performed by a licensed professional surveyor from the state of California. At some point, you have to rely on these people to provide accurate information. The discrepancy between these two drawings is the discrepancy between my drawings as an architectural drawing, which is representational of the property boundaries. And I source, my site plan information far in advance of any survey being completed. So, uh, What you're looking at is the overlay of the complete professional survey for the property in question. and residual lines from my Um, an initial attempt to capture the boundary of the property just using publicly available information and that's through block and lot mostly. So the The one corner in question where the property lines don't quite match up exactly is probably residual property lines from the adjacent properties that I just didn't bother to move into to match the boundary survey. If there is a monument, on site on that steep hillside. It was probably placed in the early 60s or early 50s when the house was built. I can't say that the conditions have been ideal for keeping that monument in place up there on the dirt hillside. The type of monument is also not specified. It certainly doesn't show up on my surveys. If it's... If it's a 50s or 60s survey, it's more than likely a galvanized pipe pounded into the ground, And with the number of trees, the root system, erosion, anything else that pipe could have moved as much as five or six feet. The monument in question is, |
| 01:54:36.24 | Sandra Bushmaker | monument. |
| 01:54:39.26 | Ben Farrell | a dubious marker at best. If there is a secondary survey out there that has findings other than what we show, I'd be happy to entertain discussion on that. I think I'm done. |
| 01:54:53.62 | Kristina Feller | Thank you very much, Mr. Farrell. So let's go ahead then at this time, just to kind of again, lay out sort of our process here. We're gonna open it up for public comment now. And then after that, both the appellant and the applicant have five minutes each for any final comments. or any further presentation. So at this time, I'd like to ask for public comment on the, yes, Commissioner Pearce. |
| 01:55:21.08 | Morgan Pierce | Does the commission ask questions of the appellant and the applicant prior to public comment? |
| 01:55:26.85 | Kristina Feller | We're going to take public comment first. |
| 01:55:28.85 | Morgan Pierce | Okay. |
| 01:55:29.95 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, yeah, good question. But we're gonna take public comment first because this is an appeals. |
| 01:55:35.03 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. |
| 01:55:35.05 | Tom Riley | Thank you. |
| 01:55:35.25 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. |
| 01:55:36.26 | Kristina Feller | So if I could ask Director Whalen to please remind the public how they can raise their hand |
| 01:55:45.56 | Director Whalen | Thank you, Chair Feller. Now's the time for public participation and comment video or audio public participation is limited to three minutes per speaker. If you'd like to make a comment, please raise your hand in Zoom, and you'll be called upon when it's your time to speak. You can press star nine if you're calling from a phone. Each speaker will be notified when your time has elapsed. Please state your name for the record. Thank you. |
| 01:56:08.24 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Director Whalen. So I thought I saw a hand a moment ago, but I do not see one. |
| 01:56:15.90 | Director Whalen | Chair Feller, I see Hector Lopez. Okay. Actually, it might be clapping hands, not a raised hand, but, and then, |
| 01:56:19.07 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 01:56:24.98 | Director Whalen | see one other. So, oh, Hector it looks like. Stop clapping. Okay. But I do see Chris. |
| 01:56:29.82 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 01:56:34.08 | Kristina Feller | There we go. Chris You've got a difficult last name. I don't want to mutilate your last name. Starts with an M. |
| 01:56:37.35 | Director Whalen | It's so difficult. |
| 01:56:38.24 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:56:38.33 | Director Whalen | Thanks. |
| 01:56:38.53 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:56:43.83 | Kristina Feller | Chris, can we unmute you? There we go. And if you don't mind stating your name for the record as well, you'll have three minutes for public comment and forgive me for not being able to pronounce your name properly. |
| 01:56:55.42 | Chris Matyszczyk | That's the first time anyone has not been able to pronounce my name. And it's appalling that you couldn't get there. I'm very hurt. And on top of that, please forgive me, I do talk funny. |
| 01:56:59.76 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 01:57:07.59 | Chris Matyszczyk | And clearly it's not, it's a certain sort of English, it may not be everybody's. Please, I won't take long. I've listened to both the two esteemed, supposedly professional gentlemen, and I listen to one and I see professionalism and I hear a bit of waffling from the other. You see, ultimately, what it comes down to is the owner of this property who, oh look, he's not here, Mr. Number 88 owner. |
| 01:57:07.69 | Unknown | you |
| 01:57:07.79 | Sandra Bushmaker | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 01:57:07.94 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 01:57:07.96 | Sandra Bushmaker | And then, |
| 01:57:30.85 | Chris Matyszczyk | We've never met him. He's never spoken to us. You've never met him. He's never spoken to you. The idea of a neighbor to live in a neighborhood, if I'm going to do something, I'll go to Michael, whoever might be affected and say, hey, I'm thinking of doing this. Do you have a problem with it? Unfortunately, none of that has happened here. There doesn't seem to have been any Any. amount of consultation with any of the neighbors. Now, maybe that's the world we live in post Trump. Forgive me. I didn't mean to mention the dear departed, but. It does seem quite strange to, may I speak for all of us who live around here? I've only lived here 19 years plus. It seems odd that someone wouldn't have, I think that the classical term now is emotional intelligence, that they wouldn't have the emotional intelligence to at least talk to their neighbors. And that was less than three minutes, and I hope you understood all that. |
| 01:58:26.99 | Kristina Feller | No, I appreciate it. But if you don't mind, I actually would like you to pronounce your name for the record. Oh, okay. |
| 01:58:31.60 | Chris Matyszczyk | Oh, OK. |
| 01:58:32.81 | Kristina Feller | Your address, are you a neighbor? |
| 01:58:35.00 | Chris Matyszczyk | I am number 90, George Lane. |
| 01:58:37.25 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 01:58:37.96 | Chris Matyszczyk | I may be stared into if you approve this thing. So my name is Chris Matyszczyk, and this is my wife, Priscila Martinez Matyszczyk. |
| 01:58:47.37 | Kristina Feller | Very nice to meet you both. Thank you so much. |
| 01:58:49.15 | Chris Matyszczyk | Hello. |
| 01:58:49.55 | Kristina Feller | this evening. Thank you. Okay, next we have Hector Lopez. Welcome this evening. You have three minutes for public comment. if you could state your name for the record. And if you are a neighbor, if you could state your address as well, |
| 01:59:09.63 | Hector Lopez | Hector Lopez, Okay sure, my name is Hector Lopez for the record, I am at 80 George Lane. So thank you for hearing my comments. I'm not opposed to ADUs, similar to what's been expressed. I believe actually Sausalito can strive to be an example for other municipalities. I know you mentioned that um, you know you don't get a lot of appeals to ADUs. I just wanted to call out that I have some serious concerns about the process that has been followed Namely, the neighbors were not notified as Chris mentioned. We haven't had any conversations with the applicant. The notification was only provided on offline in a form of the URLs for the web pages were long and challenging to enter manually. communication throughout this entire process for the couple of years that this has been going on has been incomplete, unreliable, There's broken links on the websites for the documents. There's missing documents. Comments from neighbors aren't all included in the project files. The process does not include a clear explanation of the next steps. For example, it wasn't clear to me until you guys brought it up, the commissioners, that it's even an option to have you invite you to the, the appellant can invite you to the property. That's entirely new to me, that that's even an option. It was news to me. It wasn't clear that a competing survey should be brought up, but I think Mr. Dershman raises a good point that it shouldn't be on the responsibility of the neighbors to come up with that proof. The process applies what to me seems like an ambiguous code. And it calls out that the intention of the ADU municipal code is to not create problems or aggravate problems for the community, the neighbors. And I think this process certainly has. So, David Ensign PB, David Ensign PB dispute about what would be visible in terms of privacy and whatnot I think that calls into calls into question whether this application should ever have gone through a ministerial process and I think it calls into question whether the ministerial the code itself should have a point in the process early on in the case you know of the applicant for him to know that it shouldn't be a ministerial process it should go through a a discretionary one or something that involves closer review. |
| 02:01:29.68 | Kristina Feller | Thank you very much, Mr. Lopez. Thank you very much for commenting tonight. The next hand raised is a Mr. Philip Barthman. Welcome this evening. You have three minutes for public comments. If you could state your name, if you are a neighbor, if you don't mind stating your address. |
| 02:01:47.61 | Phil Barthman | Hi, my name is Philip Barthman. I am not a neighbor. the gentleman at 84. George has requested us to come and take a look. I would like to share my screen if I could, please. |
| 02:02:00.88 | Kristina Feller | Excuse me, are you one of the expert witnesses? |
| 02:02:03.32 | Phil Barthman | Yes. |
| 02:02:03.70 | Don Cravens | Thank you. |
| 02:02:04.35 | Kristina Feller | So you are part of the appellant team. So you're part of that presentation, not a member of the public. for public comment. you're part of the team that presents. |
| 02:02:15.07 | Phil Barthman | Okay. |
| 02:02:16.05 | Kristina Feller | the appellant and there will be an additional I think we have five minutes here for that. once we're finished with public comment. |
| 02:02:24.40 | Phil Barthman | Sorry about that. |
| 02:02:25.33 | Kristina Feller | Not at all, not at all. Forgive me if I wasn't clear on that. So we'll get to you in just a moment. Are there any other members of the public that would like to comment this evening on this item on the agenda tonight. |
| 02:02:41.80 | Unknown | Mm-hmm. |
| 02:02:42.54 | Kristina Feller | I am looking for hands, I do not see any. Um... Zoom team, could you just confirm Do you see any hands? I am not. |
| 02:02:54.62 | Unknown | There are no other raised hands. |
| 02:02:57.14 | Kristina Feller | Okay. All right. Thank you very much for that confirmation. Okay, so at this time, we would like to bring the appellant back for an additional five minutes for any Additional comments? closing arguments. This is five minutes for you Mr. Dersham and your entire team. So if you have if Mr. Barthman would like to speak as well. we'll make sure that he is unmuted and available for your five minutes. |
| 02:03:29.56 | Daniel Dersham | Thank you, Mike. Am I starting or not yet? |
| 02:03:32.61 | Kristina Feller | Let's get the timer back to five minutes. Let's make sure Mr. Bartham Zoom team is available. should he need to present and share his screen. |
| 02:03:45.74 | Kristina Feller | If you can confirm that Zoom team, |
| 02:03:53.48 | Kristina Feller | Maria, are you? Okay, Mr. Baratham is unmuted. five minutes, the time is yours. |
| 02:04:02.63 | Daniel Dersham | Thank you again, Commissioners. I just had a couple quick notes on rebuttal, and then I am going to defer to my colleague Phil and then his colleague, potentially Steve, within the five minutes, if time permitting. I just want to mention that the survey that the applicant says was included is, number one, a topographical map. It's not a proper survey, but importantly, it does not – remember I mentioned it's inconsistent with what they're claiming for the setbacks, but the, what they're calling a survey is actually inconsistent with the claim setbacks. So I would just ask the Commission to pay close attention to that property line issue. And the other thing is I wholeheartedly think it's quite unreasonable to suggest that the corner monument would have shifted five feet from where it was. So with that, I will defer to my colleague, Phil. |
| 02:04:57.15 | Phil Barthman | And if I could, could I please share my screen? |
| 02:05:00.01 | Kristina Feller | Yes, you have permissions to do that, so you can go ahead and do that. |
| 02:05:04.65 | Phil Barthman | Okay, this is a mark. This is the pipe that the architect. |
| 02:05:09.29 | Kristina Feller | Hold on, I don't see your screen yet. Zoom team. |
| 02:05:11.24 | Phil Barthman | Oh, sorry. |
| 02:05:12.22 | Kristina Feller | Can I stop the clock? So, |
| 02:05:14.82 | Phil Barthman | So this is a pipe marker that I discovered, and this is 18 inches or approximately from the onto the ADU side of the property. 18 inches away from 84's fence. this next slide. This shows that the fence is about five and a half feet away. from the, or it's not quite five feet from this fence right now. So we're claiming that the mark is actually 18 inches this direction from this fence. |
| 02:05:55.26 | Phil Barthman | This is another mark that we found, and a close-up of this mark looks like this. This is a land surveyor mark. that I found in about 10 minutes of looking at this property. And this also lines up with the pipe. running down. So this, here's the mark. the pipe is there, you can see that the fence has been flagged here. This property line is far closer than five feet. And again, I believe that this information should be crop to you guys to ask for an actual survey or an actual surveyor comes in and places survey marks on the actual property loan. That's for me. Thank you. |
| 02:06:41.41 | Daniel Dersham | Thank you. |
| 02:06:41.43 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:06:43.47 | Daniel Dersham | And then Steve, if you're there, defer the remainder of the time to you. |
| 02:07:01.09 | Steve Edrington | Thank you. |
| 02:07:01.14 | Unknown | I Okay. |
| 02:07:02.50 | Steve Edrington | Thank you. |
| 02:07:02.54 | Unknown | Thank you. Okay. |
| 02:07:06.05 | Steve Edrington | I can't start my video, I guess. |
| 02:07:11.65 | Steve Edrington | All right. All. Thank you. |
| 02:07:16.41 | Daniel Dersham | I can't start. |
| 02:07:16.93 | Steve Edrington | Thank you. |
| 02:07:16.96 | Daniel Dersham | Thank you. |
| 02:07:17.00 | Steve Edrington | Thank you. |
| 02:07:17.03 | Daniel Dersham | video you. You know what? Just a quick time check, what do we have? |
| 02:07:21.93 | Kristina Feller | You've got two minutes and 11 seconds. The timer is stopped. Um... Right. |
| 02:07:28.24 | Steve Edrington | Okay. Thank you. I'm Steve Edrington, Edrington & Associates, and we've been hired as experts to come in. Our business is to help property owners complete EDU. So we're actually looking at this project and going, wow, this is not the intent of the law. We're also part of the Casita Coalition helping with state law in this area. And it's disturbing that a topography map was put out there and not an actual surveyor and when the surveyor does it they'll plant stakes and give you exactly where the property line should be. So we highly believe that this you should require a professional survey where they put the surveyor markers out of the property. The other thing was the privacy problems. Clearly this has not been resolved. I have done development in my life and I usually go out and talk to the neighbors and I resolve these issues prior to ever coming to a planning commission and taking up your valuable evening to talk about these issues. One to require that the applicant get a proper survey and properly stake the property with a professional licensed surveyor, review the design problems so the neighbor isn't worried about and put this project on continuance until these issues get resolved. The other issue along with the property line is the trees. The applicant, I believe this is on your agenda after this, is to cut trees that don't belong to him. And that's not what we want. We think this is So, It needs more work. My client is not opposed to ADUs. I personally do lots of ADU work and we love ADUs but the point is, let's have a high quality one that makes obviously applicant happy but makes the neighbors happy as well. continue this and require additional Um, information from the applicant so that at the end of the day that you have a quality design project in the neighborhood thank you |
| 02:09:49.38 | Kristina Feller | Thank you very much. Thank you all three of you for your closing statements, if I could ask the applicant Um, Mr. Farrell, you've got an additional five minutes should you choose to use it. any way you would like. for any rebuttal or closing comments. |
| 02:10:12.40 | Ben Farrell | Of course. So, My client and I have been subjected to disparaging marks throughout this entire process from the neighbor. Now he has hired professionals in the room here to carry through those disparaging marks for him. Um, It's tedious at best. to to be the recipient of just such negative and disrespectful Commentary. from people and then on the backside of that comment, come and say that, oh, well, we've never talked to the neighbor because he's unneighborly and he's not part of our community. And he's, well, I mean, of course. If your introduction to your neighbors is having them stand in front of your face and saying how they're going to, take this all the way to city council and they're going to have it squashed and you don't know who I am in this town and I'm going to hire the best people possible and then I'm going to come after you and I'm going to sue you for all the money that I spent on these people to get your product squashed. No one, I kicked these people out of my office at one point when I held an outreach meeting. specifically to try to, introduce the project, tell them what ADUs in California were all about. and how this was going to have marginal to no impact on them in their daily lives going forward. And after two and a half years, I'm completely and utterly done talking to these people. So, uh... The higher professionals that we have in the room, I'm a little intimidated by what you guys bill an hour because I'm sure that's gonna wind up getting presented to me at some point, if not directly through some sort of lawsuit that Mr. Miller threatened two years ago. Not looking forward to that. The only thing that's of any great substance here is the issue around the property line. We had a professional surveyor out there. Again, this person is licensed, they're accredited, they're good at their job. They staked the property lines, they put flags on the ground. Those flags were removed less than two weeks later. If you're finding monuments or posts in the ground, They may be for this property, they may be for the adjacent properties. They typically wind up in the corners. If we have an offset, then go back and look at my plans. My plans show an offset between the northwest property corner for this property and the adjacent Montmartre properties up the hill. So you may have found the proper stake for the upper property and if it's offset then it doesn't match the survey that we have and that may be a discrepancy but it's a red herring. And for the planning commission, if you get duped into this and follow it. then they have completely succeeded in thwarting and stalling this project, which is the intention, and it has been the intention from the get-go here. I can't emphasize this enough. There has been no conversation about making material changes to the property or to the project. to address these issues that came up in appeal. And the intent for the entire duration of the my involvement with this property has been to stall or thwart the project altogether. So here we are. We're two and a half years into this. It is a project that by your own opening remarks was supposed to be reviewed and approved in 60 days. It's wholly in the Planning Commission hand now, and I wish you Godspeed and decision on this one. |
| 02:13:47.67 | Kristina Feller | Thank you very much, Mr. Okay. I think at this time, let's pull this matter back up to our virtual dais for... discussion for any Clarifications, further clarifications we might need from staff. deliberations in some decision Thank you. |
| 02:14:06.65 | Vicki Nichols | here. |
| 02:14:06.98 | Kristina Feller | So who would like to start us off? |
| 02:14:11.28 | Jeffery Luxenberg | A couple questions of Mr. Farrell, is that possible? |
| 02:14:15.82 | Kristina Feller | So, Director Whalen. If you could come back up here. Can we ask any queries of the applicant or the appellant at this time? Of course. Okay. Very good. Okay, Commissioner Luxenberg. |
| 02:14:34.18 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I have two questions. Can we bring Mr. Farrell back up? Thank you. |
| 02:14:38.16 | Kristina Feller | York. Mr. Farrell, if you don't mind unmuting and there we go. Okay. |
| 02:14:45.89 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Mr. Farrell, my first question relates to this privacy issue. You obviously have added some louvers to address the debt. your tree permit application requires a protection, chain link protection fence that's going to be installed along the property line to protect the trees according to the application, would you be willing to replace that with a, because the arborist report also indicates it could be a permanent fence, with a wood screening fence rather than a chain link fence, which would eliminate your the problem of privacy because those windows would then there would be a fence there and they wouldn't be looking at each other. Is that possible that you could do that? |
| 02:15:36.82 | Ben Farrell | It's possible. I'd have to consult with my client before agreeing to anything. |
| 02:15:41.75 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Okay. My second question is, I'm very confused about this survey. So I'm looking right now at your plans. |
| 02:15:49.29 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:15:49.37 | Jeffery Luxenberg | And Are you saying that the existing fence out there is owned by your client or by the above? on every- |
| 02:15:56.78 | Ben Farrell | I'm nearly sure the fence was put in place by the adjacent property owner. However, since they decided to improve my client's property, my client now owns the fence. |
| 02:16:09.61 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Wait, you're saying that that fence is on your client's property? the |
| 02:16:13.98 | Ben Farrell | The fence is clearly shown on my client's property on the survey, yes. |
| 02:16:18.48 | Jeffery Luxenberg | It's shown in your plans that way, but if it's not your client's fence, then that would for me calling the question the survey, obviously. |
| 02:16:28.29 | Ben Farrell | Well, the property line is the property line. The fence is not the property line. This is a great misconception among property owners. That's why you do a survey. |
| 02:16:39.91 | Jeffery Luxenberg | So you have a, your survey has been done, because do you have the survey plan in your set of drawings? I guess I'm confused. I'm looking at your drawings, which are not the survey plan. but is there a survey plan in your set of drawings? |
| 02:16:52.64 | Ben Farrell | Right. |
| 02:16:53.03 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 02:16:53.14 | Ben Farrell | Thank you. |
| 02:16:53.75 | Jeffery Luxenberg | And which number is that? |
| 02:16:56.50 | Ben Farrell | Let me see here. The BKF labeled their sheet one of one. I don't think I altered that one. I think I just put it in there as civil survey. What? |
| 02:17:11.03 | Jeffery Luxenberg | What's the code? |
| 02:17:11.98 | Ben Farrell | Thank you. |
| 02:17:12.03 | Jeffery Luxenberg | for the |
| 02:17:12.97 | Ben Farrell | She's... |
| 02:17:12.97 | Kristina Feller | DKF is the civil engineer, the surveyor. |
| 02:17:13.39 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 02:17:17.88 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yeah. I'm not seeing, I'm seeing only A drawings attached |
| 02:17:24.31 | Kristina Feller | So Commissioner Luxenberg, just a moment here. I'd like to ask, oh good, there you are, Larissa. Yeah. |
| 02:17:30.34 | Larissa | you want. it up on the screen. Yes, that would be helpful. |
| 02:17:32.51 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yes, that would be helpful. |
| 02:17:33.95 | Larissa | This survey was part of the original plans that were submitted They were the plans were updated in February and this page I think might have dropped off those plans. But the original, set of plans which were reviewed when we and public had access to this. was it was included. |
| 02:17:55.55 | Jeffery Luxenberg | But it's not included in the packet that we got through this evening's meeting. |
| 02:17:59.56 | Larissa | Yeah, I think it's not on that set of plans. |
| 02:18:01.59 | Jeffery Luxenberg | on that set of plans. MR. If you could bring it up, that would be helpful. Thank you. |
| 02:18:05.49 | Larissa | Mm-hmm. |
| 02:18:12.14 | Larissa | Okay. |
| 02:18:19.04 | Kristina Feller | So if we can zoom in just a little bit, Larissa, if you don't mind. Perfect. Okay. |
| 02:18:30.04 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, I think I saw this. just following on Commissioner lexenberg just to be clear Did BKF um, flag the site or they just confirmed the legal description with the coordinates. |
| 02:18:51.88 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:18:52.03 | Larissa | Thank you. |
| 02:18:52.13 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:18:52.15 | Larissa | Thank you. |
| 02:18:52.16 | Kristina Feller | So. |
| 02:18:53.18 | Larissa | Oh, I am not sure. kind of came onto this project after these plans were already submitted. and reviewed. Um, Let's see. |
| 02:19:05.11 | Morgan Pierce | I'm going to add a bit of confusion here. It appears that the bearings on the architect's drawings don't match the bearings. |
| 02:19:05.14 | Larissa | I'm just... |
| 02:19:12.18 | Morgan Pierce | of the two property lines in question at the corner of the property that we're referencing. |
| 02:19:19.30 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, Larissa, if you can pull up where the building is actually going, that would be good, yeah. There we go. Thank you. |
| 02:19:27.30 | Larissa | Thank you. |
| 02:19:27.38 | Kristina Feller | We got. |
| 02:19:27.62 | Larissa | So this this area. |
| 02:19:30.42 | Morgan Pierce | Well, I'll just offer that the line we see between 84 and 88 says 58 degrees, two minutes and zero seconds, whereas the architect says 58 degrees, one minute and 12 seconds. So there's clearly some bearings. issue between the two sets. |
| 02:19:53.25 | Kristina Feller | Yep. |
| 02:19:56.95 | Morgan Pierce | I'm not sure if it's enough to qualify the appellants are claiming as the offset or the actual border But there's clearly some confusion here and some something's inaccurate somewhere. |
| 02:20:15.05 | Kristina Feller | But this would... appear to |
| 02:20:21.50 | Kristina Feller | leave enough of a setback based on the municipal code and the state code. Um, based on where that covered parking is. but we would need to see the architects plan on this drawing. |
| 02:20:39.64 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:20:43.35 | Kristina Feller | Because this is not a topo plant, obviously. This is a real service plant. |
| 02:20:47.50 | Jeffery Luxenberg | who was the president of the I mean, it seems to me that the important, one, the survey has to be correct, whichever survey, I mean, the land is the land and there's a place where the lines are. And then the question is, are the trees that 84 Georges thinks are on their property, on the applicant's property. That's important because if those trees are being affected, I mean, they'll be affected either way, but it's important to know whose property they're on and where that fence is. Somehow we got to get some we have to get a survey plan that shows the existing fencing and existing trees. so that we know when they build the ADU that it's being built four feet from that line. That's obvious. |
| 02:21:40.78 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:21:40.81 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:21:40.86 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:21:44.63 | Kristina Feller | Okay, so what I would |
| 02:21:47.88 | Unknown | you Thank you. |
| 02:21:48.37 | Kristina Feller | So Mr. Farrell. Um, back to Commissioner Luxenberg's question about the fence and Is there a way that you could confer with your clients by phone at the moment while we continue to deliberate here? |
| 02:22:12.35 | Ben Farrell | I can try. I got a phone call earlier saying, I'm not gonna make the meeting. I got hurt at work today. |
| 02:22:18.78 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 02:22:19.79 | Ben Farrell | I'll give him a call. |
| 02:22:20.86 | Kristina Feller | Okay, that would be great because that could be a condition of the approval if we can get some indication from the client. That would be helpful. Okay. Um, So back to the dais here, Commissioner Luxenberg. Did you have any... |
| 02:22:36.79 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Those are the questions I have at this time, so I'll defer to others at the moment. |
| 02:22:41.19 | Kristina Feller | Very good. Thank you very much. Good questions, of course. Commissioner Pierce. |
| 02:22:47.37 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you, Phil. I think my questions were identical to Commissioner Luxenberg's regarding the boundaries and the accuracy of them. and also the screening and whether or not some privacy screen along the property line would be considered by the applicant to provide adequate privacy for the appellant. It seems like it's a rather simple solution. Um, And then the only other question was, While I understand that maybe there is some challenge with reaching out to the property owner at 84, why were none of the other property, nearby property owners, to gain their support for this. Again, not that they're required to, this is discretionary, but again, out of neighboring courtesy, it seemed like the right thing to do. |
| 02:23:31.14 | Kristina Feller | I think out of courtesy, yes. This being a ministerial approval and ADUs being Haley Myers Dillon, Ph.D.: Highly incentivized to all property owners, you know this, this is why this doesn't usually come to to this body it was directly through Community development. |
| 02:23:41.20 | Sandra Bushmaker | Thank you. |
| 02:23:41.22 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:23:50.83 | Kristina Feller | And that is the process established by the state and adopted by Sausalito. |
| 02:23:55.17 | Morgan Pierce | I'm not. |
| 02:23:55.71 | Kristina Feller | Um, So. Yeah, we can always wonder that. as we do many times up here. um, Commissioner Saad, do you have any questions or comments or thoughts? |
| 02:24:10.38 | Nastassya Saad | You know, I think I just I'm having the same I'm having the same issues along the property lines. It seems unclear that there is a discrepancy. So it's a little hard to to move forward. However. A more general question, and I think this was In the second attachment. Um... the notice of decision number 12 light and shadows. I just wanted to clarify the city city staff is determining that there is no issue with light and shadows and I just did not know if that IF YOU WANT TO DO IT, YOU CAN if any, changes with the setbacks or the property line or the height just from looking at the the view looking into the adjoining property that we saw from the earlier presentation, if there is any issue along light and shadow that was a concern of 84 George et al. Now that I've seen the picture, because I was hoping to be able to go to that property as well, and I guess they weren't aware that they could have invited us. to have some understanding if there is any concern around light and shadow from there. standpoint as well. |
| 02:25:29.74 | Kristina Feller | You know, we always be concerned about things like this. |
| 02:25:29.94 | Nastassya Saad | I. |
| 02:25:34.97 | Kristina Feller | And I'm not here to speak for for that for the appellant at all, clearly, but I don't know if you were able to walk up like above that garage, the garage roof and kind of |
| 02:25:47.96 | Nastassya Saad | I kind of went into the hill Crawled up the hill a little bit, yes. |
| 02:25:49.82 | Kristina Feller | Crawl out the |
| 02:25:53.06 | Nastassya Saad | and I saw the polls. So I couldn't really, I was just really more looking for, I had, I think this is, at least unique in what I've seen so far that the impact created by the accessory dwelling unit does not impact more than 25% of the adjacent parcel more than 30 days per year. It's just such a specific standard that I just wanted to call it out. I'm not saying I disagree at all with staff's recommendation there but. It's a very specific standard and I'm not really sure how that's determined. So |
| 02:26:24.25 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 02:26:29.31 | Nastassya Saad | just sort of throwing it out there as a concept. I don't know if it's shadow study if we want to entertain that at all if that if I need to throw that wrench into here. But that was sort of one thing that stood out to me from the. |
| 02:26:41.02 | Kristina Feller | Yeah. |
| 02:26:41.68 | Nastassya Saad | um, from the notice of decision. Thank you. |
| 02:26:44.82 | Kristina Feller | Well, I think most of it, I mean, I was holding on to the polls, so I didn't fall down. |
| 02:26:49.03 | Nastassya Saad | So you fall, exactly. |
| 02:26:50.32 | Kristina Feller | But a lot of that is built into the hill, which is, you know, because of all of our concerns with landslides. |
| 02:26:52.81 | Nastassya Saad | Right. |
| 02:26:57.07 | Kristina Feller | you know, and land side task force that I was on, this is actually a really good solution. It will really stabilize that area. So this is a good thing. It's very convenient. |
| 02:27:04.56 | Nastassya Saad | Okay. |
| 02:27:05.94 | Kristina Feller | But that doesn't speak to shade and shadow, I'm just, you know, I'm just making |
| 02:27:10.97 | Nastassya Saad | Right. |
| 02:27:11.73 | Kristina Feller | point. that a lot of this is built into that. and it's certainly much below the tree canopy. that's there now, although this is a permanent structure and not a tree. you know, the vantage point from all the way up there, you know, as you hold on to like the story pole that is up there is you don't really even see into the house, the adjoining property, because you're at such a higher elevation and it's got this beautiful roof line on the, 84 George. on the kind of sweeps down you don't really There's no direct view into that house. And I spent some time up there because that's what I was really worried about because of what the what the appeal was. |
| 02:27:57.33 | Nastassya Saad | Exactly. Yeah, I think we have the same perception. I was just a little curious around the this is, I can never say this word specificity specificness. I'm going to just throw that out there of the 30 days Yeah. as a call out but otherwise no it's just the property on I think I share with my fellow commissioners around the confusion that discrepancy. |
| 02:28:19.20 | Kristina Feller | Right. So, um, Let me, I know I haven't kind of gotten around to vice chair graph yet, but I just wanted to check in with Mr Farrell to see if he is. gotten in touch with the owner of the property if we can get any indication about the fence. if he can hear me. Maybe he's on the phone. Okay, well, maybe we'll come back to him. |
| 02:28:45.13 | Ben Farrell | Ha ha ha ha. I was restricted from unmuting there for a second. |
| 02:28:48.83 | Kristina Feller | Sorry, Mr. Farrell, were you able to reach your client? |
| 02:28:52.42 | Ben Farrell | I was. he was adamant about joining this meeting, but he's on a number of painkillers right now. So I advised him against that. |
| 02:29:02.60 | Kristina Feller | No. |
| 02:29:02.82 | Ben Farrell | Yeah. |
| 02:29:02.85 | Kristina Feller | So what about the fence? Is he willing to... |
| 02:29:06.53 | Ben Farrell | He agreed to it. Again, I'm gonna throw the caveat in there that he's medicated right now. I'm not sure what happened to him today. He's a pretty tough guy, um, We, he, he, he agreed to the fence in concept. He said, sure, whatever it takes. Let's see if we can get this finished tonight. I said it didn't seem likely that we were going to get this finished tonight, but I can throw a fence on the table as something that we would consider. |
| 02:29:34.71 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Um, it as the architect this would be something you would Embrace, you could make that work. |
| 02:29:47.99 | Ben Farrell | I On a, as a conceptual basis, yes. You know, that's what fences are for. They're privacy enhancers. The issue here on the table is all about privacy. There are differing opinions on the existing site conditions providing enough privacy, obviously. I'm not sure. We throw one more design element at this where we're going to be subjected to providing material samples, colors, height, design, all of this. If I could have discretionary latitude over all of that without having to go through endless process for approval. I would wholeheartedly endorse events. However, I'm going to reserve. um, you know, fully throwing it in there at this point. |
| 02:30:41.33 | Kristina Feller | Okay. So the other question that we had for staff earlier And I think Larissa at one point had mentioned that the living room window had some type of a film on it. Is that still the case? |
| 02:30:54.40 | Ben Farrell | Exactly. Well, again, it was a concession that we made as part of approval. So, you know, we, we, gave privacy film as a means to address privacy. and shorten our process. and we did not shorten our process. If that is still going to be a sticking point, we can we can again throw it on |
| 02:31:19.59 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:31:20.13 | Ben Farrell | as a concession for trying to address privacy. But again, what we're doing here is this is negotiation. This is the art of negotiation. We're giving something, we expect something in return. If we're gonna prolong this process, |
| 02:31:22.98 | Unknown | But again. Thank you. |
| 02:31:32.40 | Ben Farrell | through the next three or four planning commission meetings, then again, I don't feel comfortable bringing that forward right now as a concession. |
| 02:31:38.83 | Kristina Feller | We're trying to figure out if that is actually your design or not, the staff was unclear. |
| 02:31:43.74 | Ben Farrell | it was a condition of approval for the initial planning approval so yes it was part of the design |
| 02:31:48.46 | Kristina Feller | on with that. Great. Okay. Thank you. Vice Chair Graff, I hadn't gotten to yet and I apologize. |
| 02:31:57.93 | Richard Graef | Well, that's quite all right. Most of the issues I think have been covered. I concur with the confusion about the property line. I would like to see a If it takes another survey or something, some peer review, whatever it takes to confirm the property lines, I think. That's a real issue. So, But then I had another question and the privacy, I think the fence, anything that could be done there, I think would be great to help with that. Um, I was not able to get out there see the actual condition. like, infer it from all the information But I did have a question and I think it was brought up by the appellant about the owner occupancy of the the premises of the main house. where it says that the owner of the house, must live in the house. and not the APU or whatever. And I'm just wondering, how does that fit into this picture? |
| 02:33:14.86 | Kristina Feller | So, You know, I did the requirement for owner occupation of the main residents isn't I believe until 2025 is that correct director whalen. |
| 02:33:26.29 | Director Whalen | That is correct, Chair Fallon. |
| 02:33:28.03 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 02:33:28.26 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 02:33:28.28 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. So it's not applicable now. It's not applicable. |
| 02:33:29.11 | Director Whalen | Yeah. Thank you. |
| 02:33:32.14 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 02:33:32.16 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:33:32.18 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 02:33:32.45 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:33:32.48 | Richard Graef | Okay. |
| 02:33:32.67 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:33:32.70 | Richard Graef | All right. |
| 02:33:32.77 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:33:32.78 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 02:33:34.22 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 02:33:34.24 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 02:33:35.49 | Kristina Feller | Okay. All right, so actually, Director Whelan, don't go away yet. I have a question. for you. I'm here. So because this is a ministerial review and approval and the appeal comes to us, we've talked through a little bit of this, obviously, you know, BKF and their survey BKF is one of the largest firms that does this in all of California. I think what what we are missing is not necessarily the survey, but, but the, but the, the project properly cited on the survey. unless any of my commissioners disagree with that. We just need it. |
| 02:34:20.84 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I think we need the project cited on the survey by the surveyor and that fence. that is supposedly the butters or not the butters to determine whether it's on the property or it's not. by the surveyor, not by the |
| 02:34:36.32 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. |
| 02:34:37.48 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 02:34:37.52 | Morgan Pierce | if the trees in question are actually on the property of the applicant, not the appellant. Yes, that as well. |
| 02:34:47.63 | Kristina Feller | So the question is, Do we? PB Sarah Silver, You know, based on everything else that I don't think anyone is an issue with an ad you hear even even the pellet doesn't have a problem with an ad you and in theory. Um, Um, Does this have to come back to the commission to have that survey information confirmed? Or is this something that can be handled by at the staff level based on our direction. |
| 02:35:21.43 | Director Whalen | Thank you, Chair Feller. We can handle this at the staff level and with the commission's requirement that the applicant surveyor provide that information to staff. And if it, Um, If it matches what was submitted by the applicant and the setbacks conform with our ministerial standards, we can confirm that. And, um, The project can move on trying to think on the spot here. If there is a difference in what the applicant's plan show and the survey and the features located on the property, I might need a second here to think about what that would mean. So if you could allow me a few minutes here. |
| 02:36:11.82 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, yeah, please. |
| 02:36:13.45 | Morgan Pierce | And may I ask another question, Chair Feller? |
| 02:36:15.63 | Kristina Feller | Of course, absolutely. |
| 02:36:16.62 | Morgan Pierce | It appears that the privacy is obviously the other concern that this body is faced with. And is that something that can be handled differently? I'm wondering, since it's not in encroachment, |
| 02:36:30.34 | Eric B. | Thank you. |
| 02:36:30.72 | Morgan Pierce | It would be lower, it wouldn't require a variance. So I'm curious whether or not it would even have to come before us or could that be handled |
| 02:36:40.13 | Kristina Feller | Good question, because I think we can condition what we're approving here. Um, And then hopefully have that just the staff to implement. oversee and implement. And by that, I mean, just so we are all on the same page here. That's, a fence, a solid fence. |
| 02:37:02.20 | Unknown | Mm-hmm. |
| 02:37:02.61 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. |
| 02:37:02.63 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:37:02.76 | Kristina Feller | And that would be perhaps a film on the living room window, which is the local- |
| 02:37:06.91 | Morgan Pierce | I think the film is almost moot. what's going on? |
| 02:37:09.21 | Kristina Feller | Good. |
| 02:37:09.21 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Good. |
| 02:37:09.73 | Morgan Pierce | I've been... |
| 02:37:09.97 | Jeffery Luxenberg | defense. |
| 02:37:10.66 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Yeah. |
| 02:37:11.79 | Jeffery Luxenberg | If we get the fence, I wouldn't ask for the film. |
| 02:37:14.22 | Kristina Feller | Perfect. |
| 02:37:14.54 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yeah. |
| 02:37:15.53 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Any other thoughts or comments |
| 02:37:20.78 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Well, let me just throw something out here. I would suggest we lay this on the table. And we hold the next piece of the hearing on the trees. And then Lily will come, Director Whalen will come back to us and tell us thoughts on what can be ministerially approved or not. And because we have to deal with this appeal, but we can't make a decision on this appeal without understanding the survey information and the tree information. And if the, when we review the trees, we get an agreement that they're gonna put this fence in, we now have addressed the privacy issues. So that's why I'm saying lay this on the table and then we come back to it tonight after we do that. That's my thought. |
| 02:38:13.21 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Mr. Saad. Is that... |
| 02:38:17.58 | Nastassya Saad | I would agree with, yeah, I think that was well summarized by Commissioner Luxenberg. |
| 02:38:22.66 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. it. Vice chair. for you. OK with that? |
| 02:38:28.42 | Richard Graef | I'm not sure exactly understood. |
| 02:38:29.51 | Kristina Feller | Exactly. |
| 02:38:31.00 | Richard Graef | Mm-hmm. Um, But... commissioner Luxenberg was getting at but Could he restate that? |
| 02:38:41.41 | Jeffery Luxenberg | So I'm suggesting we lay this on the table, which means we don't make a decision. |
| 02:38:44.65 | Richard Graef | We don't look at the decisions. |
| 02:38:46.37 | Jeffery Luxenberg | So that. |
| 02:38:46.46 | Richard Graef | So that |
| 02:38:48.40 | Jeffery Luxenberg | That means that we haven't made a decision on this, but it's still on the agenda tonight and we're still discussing it, but we're not gonna make the decision now. We're gonna hear the tree thing first, get all that information, get the fence into the tree application, because that's important, and then come back to this, because now the privacy thing, if they've agreed to the fence. The only way to agree to the fence is part of the treaty permit. It can't be part of this. because this is an appeal and it's got to go up or down. And so we need to somehow have addressed the privacy thing and we can't do that until we've done the treatment. |
| 02:39:25.84 | Richard Graef | Got it. Thanks, man. |
| 02:39:28.16 | Kristina Feller | So, but I still think we need to close an item out on our agenda, we can't leave it open. Director Whalen, is that correct? From a procedure and I know our city attorney is going to help us here too. procedurally. |
| 02:39:46.16 | Mary Wagner | Yeah, I'm here too. I'll go ahead and jump in. Thank you. So I think what I'm hearing Commissioner Luxembourg suggest is that you're going to continue the discussion of this item on your agenda tonight. So you've taken public, you've heard from the, Appellant, the applicant, taking public comment, close public comment. You want to deal with the tree issue and come back. to this discussion. So you're just juggling your agenda a little bit, which you can do. I had some questions related to the trees. I think you already asked one, which is does the survey question affect the tree decision as well. And I know you had some questions about the action you were taking on the appeal and how to move that forward. I think that, you know, your community development director and I are here. We're happy to deal with those questions. But on the the kind of juggling of your agenda, you're able to do that if you so desire. |
| 02:40:40.23 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Thank you, Mary. |
| 02:40:42.74 | Mary Wagner | Sure. |
| 02:40:43.32 | Kristina Feller | you Director Whelan, you were going back to the look at if you can ministerially approve or review the survey with the property cited properly on the survey. What did you find out? |
| 02:41:04.88 | Director Whalen | So, yes, so they think that the second part of that was if the survey comes back incorrect, how is that handled? might be a condition that would require that the ADU be no less than four feet away from the property lines, wherever those are to be determined. |
| 02:41:28.14 | Kristina Feller | Mm-hmm. |
| 02:41:28.51 | Director Whalen | and if that affects the Um, you know, design and configuration of the ADU. than the applicant might have to redesign and, you know, go through another ministerial process, unless Mary disagrees with me on that. But that's where I kind of ended up on. |
| 02:41:51.90 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Okay. So, So by that, Director Whelan, we're basically just going back to what the statute says and you know, the ADU has to be you know, four feet off the property line and that property line is to be confirmed. |
| 02:42:10.02 | Unknown | I'm not sure. |
| 02:42:12.43 | Kristina Feller | And should the ADU design have to be modified based on the confirmation of that property line based on the survey, then so be it. That can go ministerial through you. Is that correct? |
| 02:42:24.13 | Director Whalen | Thank you. as long as it meets the ministerial standards of the code. THE FAMILY. |
| 02:42:29.51 | Mary Wagner | Yeah, and if I may, Chair Feller, I think that that if if the Commission was inclined to to deny the appeal. |
| 02:42:35.49 | Vicki Nichols | IT'S A GOOD IDEA. |
| 02:42:37.29 | Mary Wagner | you know, to say that you don't. find that there's an impact to privacy or the other grounds in the appeal. |
| 02:42:39.35 | Unknown | there's an image. |
| 02:42:42.69 | Mary Wagner | And if then, you know, it comes through the process, um, it would be just to confirm, as your community development director said, you know, it meets the state law requirement. I don't think you want to create a serial appeal the problem. So we would need to think that through to that you're not you know you're not reopening it by having a new application. So if information is submitted that confirms that it, you know, it's in the same basic location with respect to the privacy issue. I think that you've addressed that that concern. |
| 02:43:15.82 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 02:43:16.27 | Mary Wagner | Hopefully that makes sense. That felt a little circular, as I said. |
| 02:43:20.37 | Kristina Feller | Well, then it sounds like we don't have to continue this piece of the appeal regarding the fence. We can condition it. Is that- Yeah. |
| 02:43:30.40 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 02:43:30.41 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yeah, I think |
| 02:43:31.70 | Kristina Feller | put the fence in the tree permit. |
| 02:43:34.23 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I don't think you can do that because we're being asked to if we deny the appeal, then the fence isn't there. We need the fence to be there in order to deny the appeal. We have to accept the appeal unless the fence is there. We can't condition it. You can't condition an appeal there. |
| 02:43:59.59 | Mary Wagner | I actually think you could. I think you can go ahead and say that the appeal is denied on the condition that this fence is |
| 02:44:00.11 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I do think that's right. |
| 02:44:06.51 | Mary Wagner | is put in. |
| 02:44:07.66 | Unknown | Right. And I... |
| 02:44:08.72 | Mary Wagner | And I think it fits more in this context than it does in the tree removal context, actually. |
| 02:44:14.91 | Kristina Feller | And that's what I would recommend is that we deny the appeal, but require a privacy fence. |
| 02:44:15.77 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 02:44:23.40 | Director Whalen | Chair Feller, one question about the fence, and maybe this is a question for the architect in terms of how tall the fence would be on the property line. Um, because we have height restrictions and We want to make sure that we're not asking the applicant to do something that wouldn't be consistent with the code. |
| 02:44:43.35 | Kristina Feller | And code is four feet, is that correct? |
| 02:44:45.54 | Director Whalen | the property. |
| 02:44:45.96 | Kristina Feller | It's six feet. |
| 02:44:46.91 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 02:44:46.94 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:44:47.23 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 02:44:47.26 | Morgan Pierce | Yes. |
| 02:44:47.55 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 02:44:47.90 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Okay. based on the grades. |
| 02:44:50.33 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. |
| 02:44:50.37 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Based on the grade, that seems more than adequate. |
| 02:44:52.95 | Kristina Feller | Way more than that. |
| 02:44:53.66 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Six feet should cover the should cover that window or at least the part of the window when you're standing in the room. They won't be able to see it from the adjacent property. |
| 02:45:02.21 | Kristina Feller | There's no way they'd say it. |
| 02:45:02.85 | Jeffery Luxenberg | based on the grade. |
| 02:45:04.27 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, based on the view angle, they won't see it at all. |
| 02:45:06.18 | Jeffery Luxenberg | It's awesome. Whoa. who won't see what? |
| 02:45:10.18 | Kristina Feller | The neighbors. 84 George Lane would not see the window at all from their house with a six foot fence, because based on their view angle being below. |
| 02:45:19.22 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yeah. |
| 02:45:19.97 | Kristina Feller | A sight line, yeah. |
| 02:45:21.28 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yeah, no, six feet should be more than sufficient. |
| 02:45:23.19 | Kristina Feller | More than enough. Right. Okay. So just to make that more confusing, I think that I'm not sure. you know, I would make a motion to deny the appeal. but require a six foot privacy fence, a wood privacy fence at the property line that property line to be confirmed. or reconfirmed. with the survey. And. Um, Any and that you we uphold the four foot setback off that property line. for this ADU. second that. |
| 02:46:06.91 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 02:46:08.30 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I would add to that, if I could amend that, to require the applicant in the event that the existing survey is wrong, that they resubmit, they submit revised plans that are ministerially reviewed. to address the fact that the line has now moved to anywhere from 204. But it's still |
| 02:46:29.83 | Kristina Feller | again. But it's still just four feet off the property line, whatever that property line is. If that is what That's the... That's a requirement, yeah. |
| 02:46:39.40 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Right, but the plan needs to be seen by the community development. Right, that'll be necessary. |
| 02:46:43.90 | Kristina Feller | Right, that'll be much scary. It'll be ministerial. |
| 02:46:48.00 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yes, that's what I'm saying. |
| 02:46:49.28 | Kristina Feller | Okay, I think we're all on the same page. Commissioner Saad, thank you for seconding that. Director Whelan, do you wanna take roll? |
| 02:46:59.21 | Director Whalen | Thank you, Chair Feller. Commissioner Saad? Yes. Commissioner Luxenberg. |
| 02:47:04.15 | Jeffery Luxenberg | See you guys. |
| 02:47:04.84 | Director Whalen | Commissioner Pierce. |
| 02:47:06.01 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yes. |
| 02:47:06.58 | Director Whalen | Vice Chair Graph. |
| 02:47:07.65 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 02:47:07.70 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 02:47:08.08 | Director Whalen | And share color. |
| 02:47:09.11 | Unknown | Yes. |
| 02:47:10.13 | Director Whalen | That carries five zero to deny the appeal with those conditions. any decision in the Planning Commission may be appealed to the city council within 10 days of this decision, please contact the community development department if you would like more information. The next public hearing item tonight is item 4C, which is a request for approval of a tree removal permit at 88 George Lane, same site. And we have Larissa with us again to be giving the staff presentation. |
| 02:47:43.66 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 02:47:43.67 | Larissa | Let me get my screen going again. Thanks everyone have my screen up. All right so this is for the tree removal permit related to the ADU at 88 George. Um, The request is to remove three protected trees, two California Bay trees that are inches at breast height and one coast live oak which is nine inches at breast height within the building footprint of the proposed ADU. The project description is for our One six single family residential zone. The arborist report identified 18 trees, which are located on portions of the property where the work will occur for the proposed ADU. Six additional trees on neighboring properties that are nearby are identified as needing protection during the construction process. |
| 02:48:43.31 | Sandra Bushmaker | I'm not sure. |
| 02:48:50.48 | Larissa | The site is a naturally hilly area without any prior grading except for around the, three foot of existing retaining wall. where soil was backfilled. And there are three trees that require the tree removal permit. All of the other trees identified for removal do not require a permit. Our burst report lists a total of I think 13 trees. Um, for removal. and then we'll see is a Baytree. It's in poor condition. It's on the project site. Tree nine is a Coast Live Oak. It's also identified as being in very poor condition. and will need to be removed. Entry 16 is the California Bay. in poor condition. identified for removal. The tree location are, let's see, tree six. is right here. Tree nine is farther up. on the hill. And tree, 10. Sorry, tree 16 is this one here, which is kind of growing, I think, kind of sideways. down the hill slope. that we're going to have And you can see the tree protective fencing is identified in green. and then the building envelope and roof buffer area. and purple. These trees were also identified to be protected and preserved on the site and on neighboring sites. including sites at 84 George, |
| 02:50:33.49 | Unknown | you |
| 02:50:37.15 | Larissa | that our birth report includes THE END OF THE END OF THE very detailed tree production plan and measures for the area, including the fence to be installed around to protect the trees along the fence line. warning signs, root buffers, Um, type of excavation no you know hand hand removal of soil around fruit roots when they're found um which is all included in the arborist report So to make the findings for this tree removal, staff identified, looked at the from the code in order to grant a true removal or alteration permit, it must be determined that the removal or alteration is necessary. in order to accomplish any of the following. |
| 02:51:24.84 | Sandra Bushmaker | Thank you. |
| 02:51:24.94 | Unknown | or, you know, |
| 02:51:25.01 | Sandra Bushmaker | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 02:51:27.57 | Larissa | that. Staff found that this removal permit fulfill A, B, and D. because the trees are in poor condition and located within to propose building footprints and removal of the train would allow the property owner to develop the property as he said. |
| 02:51:50.35 | Larissa | In order to grant the tree removal permit, it must be determined that any of the following conditions is satisfied. |
| 02:51:53.20 | Unknown | It must be determined. |
| 02:51:53.81 | Sandra Bushmaker | Thank you. |
| 02:51:56.51 | Larissa | The applicant is asking the planning commission to waive the requirement for tree replacement. The arborist report identifies that there's a lot of pretty mature trees on the subject property. And, I, suggest that the understory plants be small container size to minimize excavation and root disturbance of the trees that are already present. |
| 02:52:27.46 | Larissa | And then the last finding is if any of the following grounds that are found in the denial regardless of the other findings. in this section. can be made. Staff did not find any of the the grounds for denial. to be present, the trees are in poor condition and pose a hazard Um, to the location and the would not allow the proposed ADU development to take place. So we could not find any of these findings. and staff recommends that the Planning Commission THE TRUE OR removal requests and findings and the attached resolution. |
| 02:53:12.15 | Larissa | And that's it. |
| 02:53:12.60 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:53:16.94 | Kristina Feller | Thank you so much, Larissa. I appreciate that presentation very much. Um, Let me ask commissioners now if they have any questions for staff. Commissioner Luxenberg. |
| 02:53:32.38 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 02:53:32.40 | Morgan Pierce | No, not this time. |
| 02:53:33.69 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Commissioner Pierce? |
| 02:53:35.43 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. Thank you, Larissa, for the presentation. I did wonder if staff wouldn't mind outlining the past decisions by this body to, in lieu of requiring trees to be replaced on a subject property for tree contributions in kind to be provided to the city. |
| 02:54:00.93 | Kristina Feller | Excellent. |
| 02:54:06.25 | Larissa | I believe that. |
| 02:54:06.31 | Kristina Feller | Do you know what? |
| 02:54:07.11 | Larissa | I believe that was something that came up in our last meeting and we are working on a process to |
| 02:54:10.42 | Sandra Bushmaker | um, |
| 02:54:14.53 | Larissa | get that going. It hasn't, um, come to fruition yet, but yeah. Well, We would like to We've allowed it on the last permit, so. |
| 02:54:25.26 | Morgan Pierce | I was just wondering if somebody from staff could share that basic information with this body so the public and the applicant can hear it. Because it may be something the Planning Commission considers. |
| 02:54:38.17 | Director Whalen | to go over, oh, go ahead. |
| 02:54:38.34 | Morgan Pierce | to go over. Yeah. |
| 02:54:40.94 | Director Whalen | Yeah, thanks. Sure. Thank you, Commissioner Pierce. In the past, the Commission on a number of tree removal permits where either the site was too constrained or it didn't make much sense to plant more vegetation on the site. the commission has entertained offers of, um, contributing to the city's street trees. or trees in city parks. And so that is an option to consider for the Planning Commission to mandate that a replacement tree or trees be provided in the form of street trees or contributions to city parks. |
| 02:55:19.08 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. That's the only question I have. |
| 02:55:22.35 | Kristina Feller | Great question, great question. Commissioner Saad. I don't have any questions for staff. Thank you. Okay. Vice Chair Graham. |
| 02:55:31.08 | Richard Graef | Um... The same questions that Morgan put out there. and that is can we ask that that trees be donate it. instead of replace. because it looked to me like There's not any place to put any more trees out there once you take some out. |
| 02:55:56.42 | Unknown | Mm-hmm. |
| 02:55:56.74 | Richard Graef | the structure and so Uh, that was My question is, is that an option for us? |
| 02:56:04.69 | Kristina Feller | Okay. I have a similar question along the same line. And that is, Larissa, there were trees on neighboring properties that were also being removed Is that correct? |
| 02:56:20.44 | Larissa | No, I don't believe there's any identified for removal. There were some that were identified were in poor condition and should be removed. but there are no trees. proposed for removal with this. with the, from the Arborist Report on neighboring properties. |
| 02:56:37.65 | Kristina Feller | All right, so the arborist was just looking beyond their remit of this property. |
| 02:56:41.78 | Unknown | Mm-hmm. |
| 02:56:42.63 | Kristina Feller | Okay. any trees that would endanger this new structure. |
| 02:56:50.27 | Larissa | I believe there was one that was identified as possibly being a danger during construction on a neighboring property and they identified it and said they would you know, have to work with the neighbor to address the issue. |
| 02:57:07.23 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, because the only, what I was thinking is if they do, End up removing. a neighbor's tree that that there should be a replacement tree offered to that neighbor. as well and not just into a City tree bank let's call it I just made up that name but but you guys get get the idea. of what we're looking at because you know when you take out a lot of trees like this even though it's very clear a lot of them are in poor condition and many of them are species that you know southern marind fire does not like and encourages you to remove because they're fuel. Um, you know, they're, they're you're disrupting a habitat and we want to be mindful of that so I'm not sure. We'd want to know a little bit more about that at some point. Okay. So, If there are no other questions for staff at this time, I'd like to ask that the applicant come up here on screen. You'll have 15 minutes for your presentation. And I'm not sure that's Mr. Farrell again and or yourself and an arborist. for this item on our agenda. Will that be used, Mr. Farrell? |
| 02:58:30.22 | Ben Farrell | Thank you. |
| 02:58:30.24 | Morgan Pierce | Happy. |
| 02:58:30.81 | Ben Farrell | Thank you. I'm not sure. |
| 02:58:31.17 | Morgan Pierce | I'm sorry. |
| 02:58:31.42 | Ben Farrell | Thank you. |
| 02:58:31.45 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. you |
| 02:58:31.69 | Ben Farrell | Thank you. |
| 02:58:31.76 | Morgan Pierce | It's just me. |
| 02:58:32.50 | Ben Farrell | Thank you. |
| 02:58:32.79 | Kristina Feller | Okay. All right. You've got 15 minutes for presentation. |
| 02:58:36.43 | Ben Farrell | It's probably 14 minutes longer than I'm going to need. Um, The trees in question are solely within the footprint of the building for the ADU, the ADU um, Well, Well, require all those trees to be removed if the AD is going to be feasible. um, to address, there was a question about trees on neighboring properties. The arborist did identify a number of trees on neighboring properties in poor health. He did not go survey all the trees on the adjacent properties, but from what he could see from this property, identified them in his report, you know, the recommendation was to remove them. However, as part of the scope of work for tree removal for this project specifically, we did not propose removing trees from any of the adjacent properties. Um, Um, It occurred to me that the property line in question is relevant for at least one tree, if not two trees. between 88 and 84, George. So, um, With the reflagging of the property line, we'll have PKF come up and do that. We'll have a clear visual representation of where each tree falls. Um, my suspicion is that the property line will, will, wind up being shown exactly where it is on the plans. However, if it does vary a little bit, we can take a look and see which side of the property line the truth is falling at that time. |
| 03:00:14.19 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Thank you. I just had a quick question for you. And of course, the other commissioners might as well. Um, Did, uh... Uh, Is there a recommendation to grind the stumps as well? |
| 03:00:30.49 | Ben Farrell | The trees will be taken out fully, root and everything. I mean, we will be doing a substantial amount of excavation within the building footprint. So there will not be much left of the trees. |
| 03:00:39.55 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:00:39.60 | Ben Farrell | Okay. of any tree within the building footprint at that point. |
| 03:00:40.04 | Unknown | I mean, Okay. |
| 03:00:43.57 | Ben Farrell | Um, And a note on excavation for the, we got the geology report either early this morning or yesterday. I'm not sure I checked it in my email this morning. Um, The type of excavation that's being proposed here will be incremental and mostly vertical. So we should not have the standard OSHA cut, we call it, where once you're up above a five degree vertical cut, you have to batter back at 45 degrees. The soil typology here will support a more vertical cut. and we will more than likely be doing vertical lagging as we take out soil. |
| 03:01:20.84 | Kristina Feller | Okay, but is that, are you taking all the trees out at the same time? |
| 03:01:21.27 | Ben Farrell | Thank you. |
| 03:01:25.89 | Ben Farrell | Yeah, what I'm saying is that trees that are not within the footprint will have minimal impact because we'll be doing a mostly vertical cut for the excavation. |
| 03:01:35.39 | Kristina Feller | Great. Um, commissioners, do you have any questions for the applicant at this time? |
| 03:01:41.35 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. |
| 03:01:41.36 | Kristina Feller | you |
| 03:01:41.53 | Morgan Pierce | About this time. |
| 03:01:42.85 | Kristina Feller | No. |
| 03:01:44.15 | Morgan Pierce | Well, I would just ask if the applicant heard our discussion and staff's presentation regarding the option for the Planning Commission to request replacement trees be offered to city parks or city streets in lieu of being planted on site. Would the applicant have any difficulty if we made that suggestion? |
| 03:02:06.46 | Ben Farrell | I can almost guarantee that I can get Mr. Canning to buy three or four trees and be a sponsor for trees in the Northeast corner of Gumpty Park. I've already got the location planned out. They've been presented to the city prior to this meeting. |
| 03:02:23.17 | Morgan Pierce | Well, we can't specify a location, but we'd be happy to let you work with the city staff on that. |
| 03:02:28.16 | Ben Farrell | I'm happy to work with city on that. I have been requesting trees to be planted for quite some time now in Dunphy Park. We have, three species pre-vetted by the landscape architects who did Dumpy Park. And we could enlist Mr. Canning as the donor for the trees cost and delivery standpoint. |
| 03:02:51.51 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 03:02:51.55 | Ben Farrell | Thank you. |
| 03:02:52.53 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 03:02:54.18 | Ben Farrell | Thank you. |
| 03:02:54.20 | Morgan Pierce | That's the only question I had to hear from. |
| 03:02:55.63 | Kristina Feller | Excellent question as always. Okay, and then if there are no other questions for the applicant, I'm gonna go ahead and open this up to public comment. Director Whalen, if you could remind everybody how to do so. |
| 03:03:12.56 | Director Whalen | Now's the time for public comment. If you'd like to make a public comment, please raise your hand in the Zoom application. You'll be called upon when it's your time to speak. You have three minutes to speak. To raise your hand, please go to the participants list and select raise hand. If you are calling from a phone, please press star nine. And please state your name for the record. |
| 03:03:34.85 | Kristina Feller | Right, thank you, Director Whelan. I see one hand so far, Mr Miller. we can unmute you and put your camera on. I welcome this evening. You'll have three minutes for public comment. |
| 03:03:48.69 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:03:50.39 | Kristina Feller | a little bit louder if you don't mind. |
| 03:03:52.53 | Unknown | Can you hear me? |
| 03:03:54.73 | Kristina Feller | Not very well. |
| 03:04:01.95 | Kristina Feller | Can you try one more time? |
| 03:04:07.13 | Mike Miller | Yeah, can you hear me now? |
| 03:04:08.45 | Kristina Feller | There we go, yes. Okay. Thank you. |
| 03:04:09.65 | Mike Miller | Okay. Yeah, I just want to point out that the tree table that Larissa pointed out to you, you know, omits tree number 10 and 17 that is on the original arborist report. |
| 03:04:21.29 | Unknown | Mm-hmm. |
| 03:04:22.08 | Mike Miller | Tree 10 may have been transposed with tree number eight. So I do understand the omission of that one, but tree number eight is being removed. And obviously we have a property line dispute here. And our property line is going to extend past tree number three, which is a California bay and possibly tree number four, which is right next to it. The removal of tree number four could cause significant damage to tree number three. So I ask that no trees be removed until we establish property lines. That's all I have to say. |
| 03:04:54.52 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Okay, appreciate that. Thank you, Mr. Miller. Thank you very much for commenting tonight. Do I have any other members of the public that would like to make a comment? on this item on the agenda. |
| 03:05:11.14 | Kristina Feller | Okay, seeing none. I'm going to go ahead and close public comment. and bring the discussion back up to the virtual dais here. Would anyone like to start us off this evening? Commissioner Pierce. |
| 03:05:26.38 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. Certainly. I guess since it's fresh on our minds, obviously we probably need to add a condition of approval should this, should a motion for approval be presented that captures the elements of appending the tree list based on any adjustment to the property lines to make sure that trees on the neighbor's properties aren't removed inadvertently during this process and that proper protections are made. So I think we seem to add that condition to it. Beside that, obviously, I never like to see trees taken down. looking at these trees in context in a densely wooded hilly forest, many of which are not in great shape. None of them seem to be a beautiful specimen. And the fact that they are being removed to uh, to construct an ADU, which really can't be constructed anywhere else on site because it's densely wooded, it seems like a reasonable |
| 03:06:26.30 | Sandra Bushmaker | Thank you. |
| 03:06:30.74 | Morgan Pierce | offset for the loss of these trees, coupled with the admission from the applicant that they'd be willing to sponsor some trees in Dunphy Park or some other city location. So from that perspective, I'm inclined to find for approval of this tree removal permit. |
| 03:06:52.05 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Commissioner Saad. |
| 03:06:56.07 | Nastassya Saad | DIRECTOR HAMPSON- Thank you Chair Fowler. I think I'm just a little bit want to make sure we're all on the same page. I think the staff report is pretty straightforward on 6 16 and 9 for the tree removal. just not entirely sure why Tree three and four were if tree three and four are being mentioned, just in the public comment purely because of the property line or if the Appalachian thinks that they're potentially subject to removal. |
| 03:07:26.07 | Kristina Feller | I think it has to do with the property line dispute. Um, We have to make sure that that is resolved. uh, |
| 03:07:35.69 | Unknown | I'm not sure. |
| 03:07:36.60 | Kristina Feller | and and the other issue that is that if one of them happens not to be on 84, George. lane property, the close proximity, and I think that's three and four if I'm not mistaken, Thank you. |
| 03:07:50.39 | Unknown | Mm-hmm. |
| 03:07:50.66 | Kristina Feller | down here that that that the one that is on 84, George is not damaged because you removed the one on 88. |
| 03:07:59.30 | Nastassya Saad | Okay, but regardless of property line, three and four are still not subject to removal in this. in this Thank you. |
| 03:08:09.44 | Kristina Feller | Right. we have to confirm the property line. |
| 03:08:11.87 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Okay. I think they're suggesting that they remove tree four. That's what's in the arborist report, but it's not a protected tree. I think that's the difference. |
| 03:08:22.18 | Nastassya Saad | Okay, maybe that was Mike. |
| 03:08:22.65 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Maybe that was Mike. |
| 03:08:24.63 | Nastassya Saad | Okay, maybe that was my... confusion. But no otherwise I agree with COMMISSIONER PEARCE. |
| 03:08:35.61 | Kristina Feller | Okay, thank you. |
| 03:08:36.68 | Nastassya Saad | you. |
| 03:08:37.91 | Kristina Feller | Commissioner Luxenberg. |
| 03:08:39.95 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I want to specifically add, I think it's covered by Commissioner Pierce, but I want to add a specific condition that says that they will replace the tree, the protective fencing with a permanent, instead of putting in protective fencing, they're going to put a permanent wood six foot fence and move the protective fencing as part of the conditions of the pool. |
| 03:09:03.17 | Kristina Feller | I believe that was part of the condition on the denial of the appeal. |
| 03:09:08.55 | Jeffery Luxenberg | It was, but I also wanted in this disapproval as well, because it's indicated here in case something messes up with that or something happens with that or whatever, I want to make sure that it's It's here as well. |
| 03:09:23.39 | Morgan Pierce | I'm concerned that the protective fence is designed for that very purpose, protective and not meant for an aesthetic fence. I'm concerned if they use a wooden fence, it'll be destroyed in the course of construction activities. |
| 03:09:35.94 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Then I want to add a provision here that the protective fence will be replaced with a wooden fence here as a condition of this so that we make sure that Um... that in the case that that fence has to come later is what you're suggesting. and I'm I'm concerned that it gets covered here, but that might be just me. |
| 03:10:01.73 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, we don't usually put it in two places because there's only one fence and it was part of our directive and requirement anyway. Um, I, I think what commissioner Pierce is saying is, is correct regarding the protective fence versus the privacy fence. you know, to protect other trees. |
| 03:10:23.93 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I understand what you're saying. concerned, but I understand what's being said. |
| 03:10:28.74 | Kristina Feller | I |
| 03:10:29.72 | Sandra Bushmaker | I'm not. |
| 03:10:31.44 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 03:10:32.42 | Jeffery Luxenberg | And you're suggesting it doesn't belong here, so I will go along with that. But I was suggesting that it could |
| 03:10:40.37 | Kristina Feller | I mean, we can reference the other condition, but I don't think we need to put it required two fences, we need to be careful and keep keep the keep the record clean. Um, |
| 03:10:53.40 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yeah, it's just there's a reference here that it can't, for this that you could also have a permanent fence in the documentation, so that's why I'm I'm suggesting that it's not an option because it was indicated in this somewhere buried in here. It's indicated that way, and I wanted to make sure it was clear. But we have this for the public record, so I'm not doing it at that. |
| 03:11:18.76 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Perfect, thank you. Vice Chair Graff. |
| 03:11:24.87 | Richard Graef | Um, Yes, I, I, uh, I don't have a problem making the findings. I think it's reasonable. I think the protective fence may or may not be exactly in the same place as the privacy fence. So, I don't think that's really an issue here. I think it really is just approving |
| 03:11:51.46 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:11:51.60 | Richard Graef | removal of the necessary trees and the replacement Uh... to the city for Donfeet Park. or wherever. |
| 03:12:04.96 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, I think that the stipulation of you know, the donation of trees, you know, uh, to be worked out with the city based on location and value has to has to be part of this this approval The only other caveat is any of those trees that come within |
| 03:12:21.64 | Sandra Bushmaker | Right. THE FAMILY. |
| 03:12:27.42 | Kristina Feller | Um, a couple feet of that property line that needs to be cleaned up in terms of a dispute on whatever that property line is. And so I think that we can go ahead and Um, I still think we can go ahead with a motion to approve the tree removal and just condition it. on these two items. |
| 03:12:51.37 | Richard Graef | Yeah, I think so. I mean, the property line might a fact. the process. And do we need to, regarding the tree replacement, do we need to, condition. that somehow on the size of the trees that, you know, the maturity of the trees. that would be replaced. In other words, Do we want seedlings or do we want real trees? |
| 03:13:23.20 | Morgan Pierce | That's a great question, Richard. I'll jump in here, Chair Feller. I think what we've done in the past is commensurate |
| 03:13:23.32 | Richard Graef | That's a great question. |
| 03:13:29.14 | Morgan Pierce | Number and value with the trees that are being removed. Okay. |
| 03:13:36.27 | Kristina Feller | I think it's better. How about you guys want to make a motion? Can I? entice you to make a motion. |
| 03:13:43.60 | Morgan Pierce | Richard, did you want to or did you want me to? You were jumping right in. |
| 03:13:46.77 | Richard Graef | I don't have all the numbers in front of me, but I am willing to make the motion. So I I'll move that. the tree removal permit. be granted. approved. with the conditions that the three of the trees, the protected trees be replaced with trees to be of equal value to be protected. coordinated with the city as to location. Um, and that Thank you. Any disputes about the trees? relative to the property line be resolved ministerially once the property line is determined. good enough. |
| 03:14:49.83 | Morgan Pierce | And if I may add an amendment to that. I'm sorry. Let me add an amendment to that vice chair, Graff. |
| 03:14:52.67 | Richard Graef | I mean, |
| 03:14:57.61 | Morgan Pierce | not only the number of value, but also the species of the trees to be worked out with the applicant to the city. |
| 03:15:01.76 | Unknown | Oh, yeah. |
| 03:15:03.50 | Morgan Pierce | I'll go. court. |
| 03:15:06.05 | Richard Graef | Thank you. that. |
| 03:15:07.43 | Kristina Feller | Great. Do I have a second? |
| 03:15:12.19 | Kristina Feller | Excellent. Director Whelan, could you please call the roll? |
| 03:15:16.88 | Unknown | Commissioner Luxenberg. |
| 03:15:19.28 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. |
| 03:15:19.33 | Jeffery Luxenberg | No. |
| 03:15:19.62 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. |
| 03:15:19.95 | Unknown | Commissioner Saad. Yes. Commissioner Pierce? |
| 03:15:23.89 | Morgan Pierce | Yes. |
| 03:15:24.76 | Unknown | Vice Chair, |
| 03:15:27.21 | Morgan Pierce | Yeah. |
| 03:15:27.97 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:15:27.99 | Director Whalen | Chairfeller. And that carries five zero. There are no appeals of decisions on tree removal permits of the planning commission. |
| 03:15:38.82 | Kristina Feller | Great. |
| 03:15:39.93 | Director Whalen | I'll move on to our next item on the agenda, which is our study session items. We have two this evening. study session of the planning commission is held to familiarize commissioners in the public with proposals under review. and provide an opportunity to ask questions and provide comments. These two items are not typical study sessions for projects, but they are important. So the first is a 5A, which is study session for the Nevada Street Striping Reconfiguration. And we have our Public Works Director, Kevin McGowan, joining us this evening to give the staff presentation. So if we can, Maria, make sure that Kevin has Oh, there we go. I see Kevin. Great. Perfect. Hi, Kevin. |
| 03:16:32.57 | Kristina Feller | Oh, he's muted. Can we unmute Kevin? You should be able to unmute now, Kevin. There you go. Welcome. |
| 03:16:39.03 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:16:39.45 | Kevin McGowan | Thank you. |
| 03:16:39.66 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:16:41.16 | Kevin McGowan | Good evening, everybody. Thank you very much. We have an interesting item to present to the Planning Commission this evening. So I'm hoping that I can share my screen as well. And hopefully Maria can help me with that in a minute. See if I can do that at this point. |
| 03:17:04.26 | Kristina Feller | Yep, there we go. |
| 03:17:05.84 | Kevin McGowan | There we go. Can you see my presentation at this point? |
| 03:17:08.92 | Kristina Feller | Yes. |
| 03:17:09.88 | Kevin McGowan | Kevin McGowan, All right, thank you so much so good evening Madam Chairman and members of the planning Commission i'm Kevin mcgown with the Department of Public works. Kevin McGowan, And with me this evening, I have David Parisi, who is our traffic, excuse me, our acting city traffic engineer, and he has helped us extensively with this project on Nevada street, which is aimed at providing a safer access to. David Parisi, To. |
| 03:17:33.91 | Unknown | to the |
| 03:17:36.52 | Kevin McGowan | to the school system. Hopefully there's not some reverberation there in the presentation, sorry, to access to the Willow Creek School System, which is off of Buchanan Street. In addition, I'm hoping that we have in attendance our pedestrian advisory chair, who is Aaron Roller, and the vice chair of Kieran Culligan, who might join us this evening as well. They've been very instrumental in this project and may be able to add some insight. So I'll lead you through a short little presentation and this kind of is kind of a new concept that both Lily and I have been talking about as well as the city manager. to try to enlist some assistance from you folks and your experience in dealing with private public type of projects. I don't think we've done this in the past, at least not here in Sausalito, but this particular project has been a little bit contentious. And so I'm hoping that we can gather your experience on this. So I'll lead you through a short presentation and then maybe we can kind of take it from there. So this evening we've got, like I said, a short presentation and love to get your input. It's not standard practice to have the planning commission input on a roadway project, however, This particular project has an impact on the adjacent community. and as such, seeking additional input on the project will help guide staff, as well as the council, on whether to proceed with the project. |
| 03:19:11.38 | Kevin McGowan | There are several groups throughout Marin that have participated in developing this project, particularly Safe Routes to School, which is a group primarily addressing access for students to local schools. And especially for Bayside Elementary and Willow Creek, which is the direct access off of Nevada Street. The Transportation Authority of Marin also has provided a quick build grant for the initial And as mentioned before, Sausalito's Pedestrian Bicycle Advisory Committee has played a vital role in the project and has been discussing this project for more than six months. The initial concept prepared by Paris transportation consulting for the safe routes to school program was focused on traffic calming reducing vehicle travel speeds along Nevada street and narrowing lanes to provide buffers between. On street parking. There is not enough width on the street to retain parking on both sides of the street and two vehicular travel lanes plus two bike lanes. So right now, this is currently a what's called a, I think it's a class three bike lane which shares the road with vehicles. The buffer area would not be It could not be designated as a bike lane currently, but some bicyclists could choose to use that area if they so wish. The concept also improved crosswalks as shown on this slide. So you've got some yellow areas shown there, improvements to crosswalks and pedestrian access. Um... Thank you. All right. So I'm hoping David Parisi has joined us with this particular call and Maria, I'm hoping you can unmute him as well. David might want to chime in a little bit about this one slide and some of the original applications that we applied for. for a grant for this roadway. David, are you with us this evening? |
| 03:21:28.01 | Kevin McGowan | Okay, I don't want to take too much of their time. |
| 03:21:30.93 | Kristina Feller | Forgive me, Kevin, I think he's here I see him, but I think he needs, you're unmuted now, David. |
| 03:21:38.44 | David Parisi | Hey, great. There you go. |
| 03:21:39.10 | Kristina Feller | There you go. |
| 03:21:41.78 | David Parisi | good evening commissioners yeah i'm david |
| 03:21:43.27 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:21:43.32 | Kristina Feller | I appreciate. |
| 03:21:43.76 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:21:43.90 | Sandra Bushmaker | Thank you. |
| 03:21:45.18 | David Parisi | I've been working with Kevin, DPW, and the feedback committee and say process on this project. |
| 03:21:50.22 | Richard Graef | volume. |
| 03:21:52.26 | David Parisi | Can you hear me? No. They can hear me. Oh, interesting. |
| 03:21:57.11 | Unknown | Turn it up. |
| 03:21:57.97 | Don Cravens | Close it. |
| 03:21:59.59 | David Parisi | Can you hear me now? |
| 03:22:00.57 | Don Cravens | There you go. |
| 03:22:02.31 | David Parisi | Must have a defective microphone, sorry about that. Thanks, Kevin. Yes, so the original application included, as Kevin mentioned, the ability to or the vision of slowing down traffic, primarily on the street, THE FAMILY IS The street is just... a little bit too narrow to accommodate two lanes in each direction, parking on both sides of the street, plus bike lanes in both directions. So our focus was what can we do to address some traffic calming features including slowing speeds down. the travel lanes are really not well defined on Nevada Street. So our focus on the grant application was to use a proven method reducing the lane with themselves. and that's shown on this sketch. or diagram. I'm not sure if I'm We believe that. reducing the lane widths. you know, defining them down to 10 and a half to 11 feet. could reduce the average travel speeds by three to five miles an hour. Kevin, you want to take over from here on the transition? |
| 03:23:06.08 | Kevin McGowan | You bet. You bet. So thank you, David. We're trying to work a tag team here. So... The staff and members of the pedestrian bicycle advisory committee continue to discuss the issues and what it would take to achieve bikeways in both directions. that at least meet the minimum design criteria. An alternative came up to install a bi-directional bike path on the north side of Nevada Street. That's shown here in green, just kind of a schematic. And the idea is to put a bike lane on that one side of the street. And I'll get into some of the details associated with this in a minute. But you can also see see the sketch on the left hand side of the screen here, which is a schematic that David put together for what it might look like to have a bike lane on the north side of Nevada Street. There are definitely pros and cons for this alternative as well, and I think that's one of the reasons to pull your expertise in this evening, commissioners, to see what you think. Um, that in regards to this project, a public meeting was held for this concept with the pedestrian bicycle advisory committee on September 21st. 2020. During that meeting, the PBAC received comments in favor of this concept, as well as comments not in favor of this concept. basically because it removes parking on the north side of the roadway. That's a pretty big issue. While the BPACT approved supporting the project, And moving forward with this option, city staff felt that presenting this project to the planning commission and receiving additional comments from the public would help to determine if the city should move forward with this project and seek approval from the city. |
| 03:25:13.67 | Kevin McGowan | Parisi and Associates has developed a more refined plan for the installation of a two-way bike lane on the north side of the road, which includes delineators to add a separation between cyclists and the vehicle travel lane. Parking is still available on the south side of the road. So you've got two concept plans here. One is close to Bridgeway. where my cursor is located, this is Bridgeway. The other aspect is closer to Buchanan and access to the school. I simply wanted to show these two to kind of show a little bit of the detail that has gone into it and the efforts that David has put into this project already. |
| 03:26:00.23 | Kevin McGowan | Over the last six months, members of PBAC have discussed several different alternatives. The first was to consider the no parking time on the north side of the road. So on the lower section of my screen is a little sign that we have talked about at PBAC about considering signing this to not allow parking on that side at the time when cyclists or kids might be riding to school. However, noted in the staff report, and noted in your staff report, Enforcement of these parking spaces is identified as being problematic since city does not have staff dedicated to this specific task. In addition, signage in this area may be a bit confusing if you have striping on the road that shows a bike path. And then you've got a sign that says you can park there at the same time. So that might be a little confusing. We also looked at some other alternatives. The second alternative we considered was having a one directional bike lane between the parked cars and the sidewalk. This sketch was discussed at PBEC, and there are some details that were cause for concern. Decreased lane widths of less than or close to 10 feet is a bit of an issue, but I will let David Parisi answer any questions associated with that specific case since he is our traffic engineer. Passenger door openings into the bike lane could be a bit of a problem as well. So we were kind of trying to shy away from that a little bit because folks who are passengers don't tend to look behind them before they open the door. And if you get a cyclist riding to school on this lane and somebody opens a door in front of them, that could be a cause for an issue. Um, In addition, the eastbound direction, let me see if I can get my cursor here, in this direction. If you're a cyclist heading in the eastbound direction, you would still have to share the lane with vehicles. And we were trying to avoid that for safe routes to school and see if we can find a dedicated path of travel. Another option that we looked at, and I'm almost done with my slides, so I'm trying not to take too long here. Another option would be to replace the existing sidewalk with a wider multi-use path. the pathway needs to be a minimum of 10 feet wide. Minimum roadway widths for parking should be About 38 feet to accommodate for parking and two lanes of traffic, excuse me, parking on both sides. and two traveled lanes. would require reconstruction of the curb and reconstruction of the sidewalk which is significantly expensive staff estimates this would be in the 160 to over 200 000 for the project and at this point in time funding is not available for that type of work |
| 03:29:06.32 | Kevin McGowan | All right. A few more things to consider and we would love to get your input as we're finishing up here. Currently on the north side of the road, there is approximately 340 feet or 17 parking spaces. T's and L's are not shown on this particular section of the road, so I'm just estimating the number of parking spaces. Currently there are nine parking spaces for the public to park on the south side of the road. At this time, staff is recommending moving forward with removing the parking on the north side of the road and installing a two-way bike lane with delineators between the bike lane and the vehicle lane on the north side. |
| 03:29:48.86 | Kevin McGowan | Based on the September 21st, 2020 meeting, we received some concerns about the excessive speed of vehicles on this roadway. Reducing widths and having more vehicle traffic striping, possibly adding a radar feedback sign along with more enforcement in this area is believed to be sufficient to reduce the speeds. Speed bumps and speed humps tend to slow response times for emergency vehicles. And from a public works perspective, we definitely try to shy away from those type of infrastructures. In addition, things like rumble strips and other devices that are placed in the road can be noisy and very disruptive to the adjacent neighbors. So we tend to avoid those as well. Even though I've shown some of these in other communities, they're not ours. All right. Um, traffic modifications, no matter where they are, are always difficult. Changes in one area affects something else. And this is obvious in this case, where we're suggesting to try to make some safety improvements for kids riding to school, But on the other hand, it affects the residents in this area by removing parking. This particular project does show the trade-off of providing safe access, like I mentioned, and as well as the parking issue. This is not an easy issue to solve. And I and staff want to thank everyone for their time and effort regarding regardless of the outcome. And that also means the members of the public who submitted documentation and emails to us. We really appreciate that. This is a tough subject to work through and we're hoping to get your insights since you have to deal with these types of difficult subjects on many occasions. So I just want to thank everybody. Our next process here is to to to gather your input and input from the public and then regroup with the pedestrian advisory committee to talk about our next steps. One of them could be to bring this to the city council and ask to move forward with it. However, we might want to discuss some other aspects of making some changes to what is currently proposed. So with that. I want to thank everybody once again and I will finish my presentation. |
| 03:32:14.58 | Kristina Feller | Kevin, thank you so much for the presentation and leadership on this. David, thank you as well. And everybody else on the team that I'm not naming here, thank you very much. You're right, this is such an important issue and a community issue. So with that, I would like to open this up to the commissioners and and maybe open up some dialogue or are there questions of staff regarding the presentation here. Um, let's see, Commissioner Saad, I'll start with you. That's okay. |
| 03:32:52.18 | Nastassya Saad | That is okay thank you Chair Feller. I was also and I think I might have answered my own question while I was looking at the |
| 03:32:58.69 | Unknown | you |
| 03:32:58.74 | Nastassya Saad | at the pictures but on. Thank you again for the presentation. It was really thorough. the removal of the parking, I think is one of the, um, and I was just wondering if the north side that has the 17 spaces is highlighted as the chosen half because it's on the school side. If there wasn't. discussion around removing the nine parking spaces on the south side just to maintain some of the to take away fewer spaces. |
| 03:33:36.91 | Kevin McGowan | That's a great question. And yes, we have discussed that at the pedestrian bicycle advisory committee. There are a couple issues associated with putting the, the, the, the bike lane on the South side, a, I can go back to my, my diagram to show you. Let's try that. Give me one sec here. |
| 03:33:57.60 | Unknown | Sure. |
| 03:33:59.42 | Kevin McGowan | Let's go backwards. Thank you. Maybe. |
| 03:34:06.68 | Kevin McGowan | Let's take a quick look at this slide. If you'll notice that the crosswalks on bridgeway are orientated so that the crossing of bridgeway is on one side. I see. And that's on the north side of the street. So one reason to place this on the north side was to be in line with this crosswalk. Because that's where most of the kids will walk and cross the roadway itself. If we put it on this side of the street on the south side, We would, the kids would get up to bridgeway. They'd have to cross Nevada Street once and then they'd have to cross again on Bridgeway. We're not sure they'd be interested in doing that. kids will be kids and they'll do what they want to do. Same with anybody out there of the public. So that was one emphasis. In addition, there are several different driveways on the south side of the roadway. and putting a pathway on this side which vehicles have to cross in order to get out into the travel lane tends to be problematic. So just wanted to mention those two things. David, did I miss anything else? You're muted, buddy. |
| 03:35:16.85 | Kevin McGowan | Still muted. |
| 03:35:22.30 | Kevin McGowan | No, Maria, can we unmute him? |
| 03:35:29.40 | David Parisi | MR PALLADINO- Okay, thank you. Yeah. Kevin covered it and a couple other points. The north side of the street has fewer residential units is where the corporation yard is. and fewer driveways. The parking demand is heavier on the South side. The North side has parking demand by residences but we also during pre-COVID conditions saw parking by people who would ride the bus. that would come down and park on the north side of the street And then last but not least, yes, because the school is on the north side of the street, it would be a more direct route without having to cross Nevada Street twice. |
| 03:36:06.19 | Nastassya Saad | Okay thank you for clarifying and I had one more question and I don't know if I missed it in your presentation, but THE maybe it's the slide before I'm looking at it in my own screen for the moment but the shared sidewalk approach Um, that. I believe. you said was out of range for the cost do you know what the cost difference is do we know how far away we are from being able to achieve the shared sidewalk approach. |
| 03:36:39.22 | Kevin McGowan | So if we look at simply re-striping the road and eliminating parking, it is simply a striping project. We're still looking at about $60,000 for that, depending upon what type of striping we want to put in and what type of improvements we want to install, such as maybe a flashing light at the, excuse me, a rapid flashing beacon at Buchanan for that crossing. Now, if we put in a multi-use path, which is shown on this slide, we're looking at $160,000 to $200,000 for this type of project. There is a quite a big difference in the cost. |
| 03:37:21.98 | Nastassya Saad | Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Chair Feller. Those were my questions for staff. |
| 03:37:26.57 | Kristina Feller | Great questions. Commissioner Pierce, do you have any questions? |
| 03:37:30.46 | Morgan Pierce | Bye. Thank you. |
| 03:37:30.70 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 03:37:31.26 | Morgan Pierce | Yes, thank you, Chair Feller, and thank you, Kevin and David. I have a couple of questions, and forgive me if this data was I just seem to put my finger on it now. numbers on bicycle trips per day coming from bridgeway up to up nevada to the school and from what direction do they approach on bridgeway |
| 03:37:54.22 | Kevin McGowan | So, Before David steps in, remember that we are looking at this throughout a COVID year. So we may not have the greatest numbers just based off of the last year that we've been working on. So David, I know you've been working on this more than I have, and you might have some more information on that. |
| 03:38:12.53 | David Parisi | Yeah, I think some of the PBAC members, particularly those who've been working closely with Willow Creek School may have some numbers of the travel cyclists who were riding to and from school on a daily basis, which I believe Pre-COVID, over maybe a dozen to 20, 20 a day in both directions. I think the intention of the project though is to entice more riders because it is not a friendly environment |
| 03:38:36.68 | Sandra Bushmaker | Thank you. |
| 03:38:38.99 | David Parisi | today. because there is quite a Safe Routes to School um, mentality at the school of green trips. And so I think the feeling was that with a dedicated facility there'd be the ability to attract more kids That's right. and from school. So again, it's not a super friendly route today. So the intent was to, increase ridership. And I'm fully supportive of |
| 03:39:04.42 | Morgan Pierce | I mean, And I'll tell you where my question was coming from because I was curious how Nevada Street, which we agree is unfriendly now |
| 03:39:05.77 | David Parisi | Oh, |
| 03:39:13.45 | Morgan Pierce | hopefully can be friendly in the future, but obviously there's some, there's other routes that you may have considered, you know, such as going Colma to Males, which avoids sort of this big parking section of Nevada. And I wasn't sure if that had been something that you guys had considered, but that would obviously be really only for, coming from the north and not necessarily from the south. |
| 03:39:35.59 | David Parisi | Yeah, I think that a lot of the trips from the north are taking that route Okay. |
| 03:39:40.69 | Morgan Pierce | Okay. |
| 03:39:41.77 | David Parisi | Yeah, in our observations, this route would be to and from the south. Got it. |
| 03:39:46.65 | Morgan Pierce | Got it. So then my other question was, Obviously parking is a concern and we want to make sure that we provide parking, especially for commuters. Do we know what the parking conditions are along Marin Shipway? And could they be identified as commuter parking spaces? It seems like there's a number of just sort of random parking spaces along that, just over that grassy strip from this intersection. I didn't know if that was part of the study. |
| 03:40:13.61 | Kevin McGowan | No, it's well, No, it's not. Marinship Way is not our road. So I don't believe that's part of the city's jurisdiction at this point. I got it. |
| 03:40:18.52 | Sandra Bushmaker | So. Thank you. |
| 03:40:22.66 | Kevin McGowan | And there's also a pretty steep hillside that goes from where you see this slide from Bridgeway down to the storage. |
| 03:40:28.23 | Morgan Pierce | Right. storage area. Those are the only questions I have, Chair Feller. Thank you. |
| 03:40:32.00 | Kristina Feller | Yeah. |
| 03:40:32.48 | Kevin McGowan | the question. |
| 03:40:32.65 | Kristina Feller | I'm sorry. |
| 03:40:32.66 | Kevin McGowan | Thank you. |
| 03:40:34.27 | Kristina Feller | That's a really, really good question. I also see Kevin Aaron roller has his hand up and I know he's the I don't know if he had additional data or information on the number of bike trips and stuff such Can we unmute him real quick and ask? |
| 03:40:57.76 | Kristina Feller | See you, Erin. |
| 03:40:58.84 | Aaron Roller | way. Can you hear me okay? |
| 03:41:00.96 | Kristina Feller | Yes. |
| 03:41:02.13 | Aaron Roller | I'm going to go. Thank you. program. |
| 03:41:02.55 | Kristina Feller | numbers or data to |
| 03:41:05.27 | Aaron Roller | Yeah, and just give a little insight as well. I mean, by all means, my experience is as a father with a daughter that bikes down. that road and then also and she inspired inspired me to lead other kids. And that's really a lot of the experience that we've had with getting kids to ride to school. I think that's the spirit I think David Parisi said it well that, you know, a dozen to 20, maybe the bike racks will be full, especially on a sunny day and everything. On the big days, of course, there's a lot of people in town that do want to go. I'll tell you what, it's a challenge when you're starting to ride with other people's kids. when you get to Nevada Street and you say, okay, everybody pay attention, this is the most dangerous part of the ride. And that says a lot. You're two blocks from school. |
| 03:41:53.16 | Joseph Lillis | And, |
| 03:41:56.99 | Aaron Roller | That's the feeling that you get because of the speeds of the cars, certainly a lot of the traffic and a lot of it is school traffic, and that's a challenge as well. So really that brings a spirit of what this what this bike lane could provide. Also, you know, to be able to bring more there, more people there, I think it's really key. Also wanted to mention the Coloma approach, and that is definitely something that we have actively, you know, and we have a grant money, the larger grant for the Coloma Street rewrite from a Safe Routes to School. And there, you know, there's a crosswalk that's missing from the MLK and a gravel path. And so that's not even an ideal way. even at the current standpoint, but it would be in the future for those from the North. And so really what you have is the two directions that would be using this. I also wanted to say that The original concept was. was actually mine. And some of those drawings you saw were there. I think it's really important to understand, like, as a a resident, you know, taking away parking is the last thing any of us want, you know, and I think that's just it's Unfortunately, we've arrived at this place because uh, standards are a requirement, you know, to have bikeways, there's a certain minimum width. And when I envisioned it, I'm like, oh, wow, we've got enough room there. But it's not enough room, not per what California standards have. And that's where we've come up with this latest design. And when I first saw it, that design that shows that that bikeway That was the first time I looked down that street and thought, wow, there might be a school down that street. And that was, that's something that I think was, is an important concept to have because there's, There's very few, uh, Cars drive very fast down that road. And narrowing the lanes is really going to be one of the biggest things that is going to help slow down the cars. But then also just having the feeling that there is... |
| 03:44:18.22 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 03:44:25.39 | Aaron Roller | this schoolway nearby. I think that's also what this bikeway has. That said, I do, I do, ask you and everyone if there's creative ways because, um, to track the bike traffic down that road. maybe, you know, wouldn't warrant that big of a bike way. during the summer, for example, when the students aren't coming down there. And that's, I think, where we're looking for the creativity. Thank you. |
| 03:44:54.16 | Kristina Feller | I'm going to |
| 03:44:54.50 | Aaron Roller | Thank you. |
| 03:44:55.59 | Kristina Feller | Erin, just a quick question, because you might have some better sort of data or numbers on the number of bike trips particularly to the school, than what Kevin and his team might have on a, you know, during a COVID year, as you mentioned. So do you have a good sense of that being a father to that school as well? |
| 03:45:18.61 | Aaron Roller | Well, yeah, and certainly being the, we've gotten the Safe Routes to School Task Force. We've done some other, we've worked with Safe Routes to do the game. So I'm the guy that has that. Even my daughter did a study there. We do have that. The numbers are low, though. The numbers have traditionally been low. So this is not about the past volume. This is about... us becoming a sustainable city. |
| 03:45:46.56 | Unknown | And |
| 03:45:46.62 | Aaron Roller | And really, it has to start at our new school. We're putting $30 million of a bond into two different district locations. And we need to start thinking about how can we, convince the parents that this is okay. When I would go out and say, I want your children to ride, and What about Nevada street? It's just too dangerous. And I'm like, yeah, those are parents. you know, that you're worried about. |
| 03:46:14.18 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:46:14.23 | Aaron Roller | And if we can flip this and, you know, it does, it does take, some of this movement. It's not necessarily about the numbers. It's about us moving forward with those numbers so that we can actually make the changes. Because I guarantee you, It feels very irresponsible for me to go out and recruit and say, I will lead your kids down this current bikeway. And that's a challenge. |
| 03:46:42.29 | Unknown | Right. |
| 03:46:43.27 | Morgan Pierce | Chair, may I build on the questions I just asked? And Aaron, thank you very much for that update. And I guess this part of the question is probably directed to you and towards Kevin and David. You know, as a bicycle commuter, you know, I'm intimately aware with the issues of riding up and down Bridgeway. And I would say probably the thing that I find most dangerous is crossing from bike lane over to a left turn lane. to get to the uphill section of town. Are there any mitigation efforts that we can apply to make that easier? Because I see that as a huge psychological and safety barrier to making the safe route to school as effective and successful as we want it to be. |
| 03:47:22.84 | Unknown | Mm-hmm. |
| 03:47:23.79 | Morgan Pierce | I think, |
| 03:47:24.97 | Aaron Roller | I'm not entirely sure of the left-turn question that we have, but I guess what I'm saying is that |
| 03:47:29.14 | Unknown | But I guess- |
| 03:47:31.65 | Aaron Roller | If we succeed at actually making this bikeway at this school, trust me, we'll be back for more. Because the rest of the route is not safe. It's also scary. We do ride through the marine ship. We cross at Molly Stones. We ride on the sidewalk. By the way, that's a five-foot sidewalk. that we're riding on, it is legal to do so. But yet it's not ideal. But that's the only because riding with the kids on bridgeway is not okay because they just start to wiggle and, you know, what do you do? So I stick it out there and I protect them and whatever, you know? So again, it's all about just we have to start somewhere and then we need to spread from there. And I think, I don't know if that answers your question. Happy to, if I can. |
| 03:48:18.31 | Morgan Pierce | I think it starts to touch on it and maybe the traffic experts can maybe weigh in and add a little bit more detailed information if there's any solution that they've seen. Is it specifically the left turn at Nevada Street? You're going from a bike lane |
| 03:48:28.18 | Aaron Roller | Is it specific? at Nevada Street. |
| 03:48:34.93 | Morgan Pierce | across two lanes of traffic to make a left turn. |
| 03:48:38.00 | David Parisi | I can add something to that if it's the northbound left turn from Ridgeway. Certainly that could be designed. There's new techniques where you can actually, the bike, You know, just near the crosswalk on the right side, you could add a green box where students users could wait. until the light turns green for the Nevada street traffic. |
| 03:48:55.74 | Sandra Bushmaker | Uh, |
| 03:48:59.30 | David Parisi | and then navigate across with what's actually called a cross bike, which is a crosswalk for bikes. that would actually feed into this bikeway. So that could be a good thing. simply be added. to the project. |
| 03:49:11.91 | Kristina Feller | Great. Great, thank you. Any more questions of staff? Yes, Commissioner Luxenberg. I think you're on mute there, Jeff. |
| 03:49:27.25 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yes, thank you, Kevin and David and Erin. The two questions, one is I realize this is a striping as opposed to a cycle track. So you're trying to do this by using striping. Did you consider in the striping, putting those little white plastic pylons Because, I mean, by putting both things on the wrong side of the road, so to speak, Um, You have the, you know, you've got one lane that usually would be on the other side of the road. And then you've got just striping, it's not raised. So up in Mill Valley past Tam Junction, they have like these little white pylons, which can't be that expensive. Is that something that was considered here at all? |
| 03:50:19.46 | Kevin McGowan | Yes, I think that we do want to put in delineators between the travel lane and the bike lane itself. So there is also a a space and I'm not sure that exact distance but the delineators in the space are important. and making sure that there is a separation. |
| 03:50:38.27 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Okay, good. And then the other question I had was you talked about a shared sidewalk, but that's a very expensive proposition. But what happens, and maybe I'm not understanding the plan, as you come from Bridgeway up, there's a sidewalk, but it ends. Shortly after that Coloma there. right after the yard and there's no more sidewalks. So do people walk in, are they gonna walk in this bike lane as well? I was confused what happens. So the first block is fine. There's a sidewalk all the way. And then the sidewalk ends, I believe. somewhere around that curve. |
| 03:51:17.74 | Kevin McGowan | It does. If you see the screen in front of you, go ahead, David, if you want to step in, too. |
| 03:51:19.50 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I'm not. |
| 03:51:22.98 | Kevin McGowan | Thank you. But I think what we're showing is that This bike lane will continue on all the way up until you get to Buchanan, which is generally the turn to go into the school. And they can also continue on the road to go up to the next entrance to the school as well. |
| 03:51:38.72 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yeah. What about walkers? Walkers, not bikers for that section that there's no sidewalk, will they end up walking in the bike lane? |
| 03:51:39.04 | Kevin McGowan | Kevin. |
| 03:51:47.31 | Aaron Roller | Yes. So Kevin, if I may, all the children, the hill starts to raise really quickly, right right after that short section. So you see that There's a parking lot there. You see that little parking area? That's where 100% of the students go. whether they're biking or walking, they actually go through there. What we've added, there is a crosswalk there at Buchanan Street. And now because of the efforts of the Safe Routes to School Task Force, we've been awarded to crossing guard. So there's a crossing guard there that helps the children cross because of the student drop off now is exiting Buchanan there. And so that's where the walkers currently go. And that's where the bikers would also be. would be directed to go. None of them would actually continue on the road to Buchanan Street just because of the steveness of the hill. No, no child. |
| 03:52:44.03 | David Parisi | ever choose that route. But we should point out there is a sidewalk between Tomales and that |
| 03:52:45.65 | Aaron Roller | I'm not sure. |
| 03:52:49.97 | David Parisi | area where where Aaron pointed out. Right there, there's a sidewalk there. |
| 03:52:53.42 | Jeffery Luxenberg | and |
| 03:52:55.26 | David Parisi | and that's |
| 03:52:55.47 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I was talking beyond that driveway entrance, so I see what you're saying there. |
| 03:52:57.90 | David Parisi | Definitely. |
| 03:53:01.96 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. Those are the questions I had to Chair Phillips. |
| 03:53:05.15 | Kristina Feller | Great, excellent questions. Vice Chair Graff, do you have any questions for staff? |
| 03:53:10.35 | Richard Graef | Um... No, most of them have been covered, but I'm looking at these diagrams. Am I reading this correctly? there's also a bike lane on the south side all the way along or is that Why not? reading that correctly. |
| 03:53:31.80 | David Parisi | I'll weigh in here. That is, there would not be a bikeway on the south side of the street. There would just be a buffer area, which enables us to narrow the eastbound traffic lane. in order to also reduce travel speeds. And particularly because it's on an incited curve, I would also increase sight lines and help folks get in and out of driveways on the south side of the street. |
| 03:53:54.12 | Richard Graef | What would that area consists of. |
| 03:53:58.88 | David Parisi | subscribe. Just right, yeah, just stripe separating the one on the right side of the traffic lane and one on the left side of the parking lane. |
| 03:54:07.20 | Richard Graef | Uh-huh. Okay. And the center striping is that just a standard Uh, dash would that be a double yellow Uh, |
| 03:54:21.02 | David Parisi | serious strike. |
| 03:54:22.88 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 03:54:22.90 | David Parisi | No, it'd be dashed. There's dashed striping out there today. As a matter of fact, this would be actually pretty much in the exact same spot as the dash striping is. currently right in the center of the street. |
| 03:54:34.08 | Unknown | Mm-hmm. |
| 03:54:39.70 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Do you have any more questions, Vice Chair? |
| 03:54:43.58 | Richard Graef | No, that's it. Thank you. |
| 03:54:44.83 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Okay. I just- |
| 03:54:46.10 | Richard Graef | Thank you all for this. effort. I don't ride around town because I can't, but, and I don't have kids anymore. But I really, really support this effort And I have some other thoughts that maybe when we get to our discussion, unless this is it, This is questions. I don't have any more. |
| 03:55:12.90 | Kristina Feller | Okay. great yeah these are just questions for staff at the moment then we'll open up for public comment in just a moment I just had a couple quick questions and I can see the real priority that is needed here for safe routes to school. But on Tamales, Remind me if you could, can you park on both sides of the street on Tomales? In other words, is there any way that you can make up for the spaces, the 17 spaces you'd be taking out |
| 03:55:43.02 | Sandra Bushmaker | No. |
| 03:55:49.42 | Kristina Feller | on a side street. |
| 03:55:53.04 | Kevin McGowan | I, I think you can park on both sides of Tamales at this point in time. |
| 03:55:59.10 | David Parisi | I'm looking at street view right now. On the east side, there's a curb. You definitely can park. And on the west side, it's unimproved. And it also looks like you can park It appears a lot of people don't. because they must think it's in people's private yard. |
| 03:56:17.95 | Kristina Feller | Okay, so we could start to encourage parking on Tomalos instead of Nevada. and perhaps make up for some of the 17 that you're thinking of removing. Maybe not all, but some of it. |
| 03:56:32.80 | Kevin McGowan | That's correct. David, do you recall if there's additional parking up the hill from this? |
| 03:56:39.18 | David Parisi | On Nevada street, Kevin. |
| 03:56:40.90 | Kevin McGowan | Yes. |
| 03:56:42.15 | David Parisi | Well, there certainly is. Parking is allowed on the south side of the street. way up the hill, it's not used as much, as it is. lower on the hill. |
| 03:56:54.94 | Kevin McGowan | So there is alternative parking, it's just not as convenient. |
| 03:56:58.85 | Kristina Feller | Sure, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I would try to encourage on Tamales because at least you have a sidewalk to use up further up Nevada, it gets a little dicey. regarding a sidewalk. |
| 03:57:11.46 | David Parisi | especially on the north side of the street. On the south side of the street, there's a sidewalk that's continuously all the way up the hill. |
| 03:57:16.98 | Kristina Feller | Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. And then, um, in the arrangement that you looked at where you would be sort of adding a combined bike lane, bike pedestrian lane, so you have two lanes. side by side. In that particular configuration, I'm assuming that you'd need to raise the second lane up to curb height rather than street at street level. Is that correct? |
| 03:57:48.13 | Kevin McGowan | Yeah, that's correct. The whole curb and gutter system has to be moved out. That's one thing that's adding to the expense. And then you'd have to have the pathway at the same elevation the sidewalk is right now. |
| 03:58:00.09 | Kristina Feller | And I'm assuming that there's not an opportunity to at least like that first block between Bridgeway and Tomales to, move part of that lane into What looks like just vegetation. |
| 03:58:14.32 | Kevin McGowan | Yes and no. We could explore that, but there are a couple driveways there, and so we don't want to recreate somebody's driveway by moving the pathway in or impacting their fence lines. So again, it's a trade off. So that's why we're suggesting pushing it out towards the street. |
| 03:58:26.08 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:58:26.12 | Aaron Roller | So, |
| 03:58:32.34 | Aaron Roller | Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And also it would, it would narrow that there's, there's room that that road is too wide for a road. It's, it's the, it's wider than the, uh, lanes on 101. So just being up in there, |
| 03:58:46.33 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 03:58:46.38 | Aaron Roller | Thank you. |
| 03:58:46.40 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 03:58:46.70 | Aaron Roller | Thank you. |
| 03:58:46.72 | Kristina Feller | Sure. Okay. And then in any other like concerns about and I think that's a good question. Do you have large heavy equipment or vehicles coming in and out of the yard at certain times or do you guys time school arrival times. |
| 03:59:05.00 | Kevin McGowan | We try to time it, but I be honest, no. Whenever we need equipment on occasion, we'll have to go get it. |
| 03:59:12.42 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, fair enough, fair enough. We need you to keep the city running. |
| 03:59:17.32 | Aaron Roller | And I can say being the observer of the morning traffic that the yard has never been the issue with the traffic around the school in the morning |
| 03:59:27.19 | Kristina Feller | It's Okay, great. Thank you. Thank you all so much. Are there any other questions for staff at this time from any of the commissioners? Otherwise, we'll go ahead and open it up for public comment. I already see a couple hands raised, which is great. Director Whalen, do you want to just remind the public how to raise their hands in the Zoom application? |
| 03:59:51.81 | Director Whalen | Thank you, Chair Feller. Now is the time for public participation and comment. Video or audio public participation is limited to three minutes per speaker. like to make a comment please raise your hand in the zoom application now and you will be called upon when it is your time to speak To raise your hand from a phone, please. press star nine. Each speaker will be notified when your time has elapsed. and we will allow you to unmute yourself and share your video. If you have a presentation or something to show us, then we'll need to adjust your settings to allow you to do that. Thank you for your patience. And we'll now start public comment. |
| 04:00:27.45 | Kristina Feller | Great, thank you, Director Whelan. Um, let's see, I've got three hands raised. Karen, you've been so patient. Let's unmute you. Karen Hollweg, And get our vice chair of p back up here. Um, There you are, let's unmute you. There you go. |
| 04:00:46.74 | Kieran Culligan | Hi, commissioners and staff. Good evening. Thanks for taking us, especially on a late night. My name is Kieron Culligan. I'm the vice chair of the pedestrian bicycle advisory committee. First off, I just want to say I really appreciate the city pursuing grant funds for this topic. and spending time to think about how to make this area safer for all. Really two topics here. They're related, but they are pretty distinct. So just to remind us, there's this traffic calming element And then there's the specific bike facility, how to make this safe for bicycles, really school children. On the traffic calming front, I'll just call out having read all the public comments for them all. I haven't heard anyone say. The traffic is too slow on Nevada. We need to speak people off. I haven't heard anyone say it's perfect as is. So I think there's definitely energy around that traffic calming. And that's something that really benefits everyone. drivers passing through, residents, pedestrians, bicycles, etc. And there's really science. I've learned a lot in my time on PBAC of the amount of science that has gone beyond just speed bumps of ways to slow people down. make things safer. The neighborhood where I grew up on the peninsula actually just did this, near our lanes, increased sight lines. It's amazing. I've been driving there 20 years. These streets feel different and they feel safer and slower in a whole new way. So I'm looking forward to that. I really like that in the design. On the bicycle front, we spent tons of time out there, literally on Nevada street, taping out ideas, Aaron and I trying to find something that works. doing everything we can to try and avoid taking me out of parking. because we don't take it lightly. Nevada Street is not Bridgeway in terms of bicycle traffic. but it does have a school that's important. |
| 04:02:26.52 | Phil Barthman | Thank you. |
| 04:02:26.82 | Kieran Culligan | This proposed plan, it's probably fourth. Honestly, it's probably fourth on my list of the preferred designs. But we have alignment with the city on it. And we voted to move it on in the review process. We didn't, as PBAC discussed, this expanded sidewalks of the facility on the sidewalk. But I like it. I know we don't quite have budget for it, but I do like it. And so I appreciate all this extra creativity coming up today. It's great getting public comment on this topic. And I will call out, I don't think we've really talked about this as a pilot. But as I understand, we've been talking about this pilot, three to six month range. And one of the nice things, I'll actually say, elegant things about it is the way that it's set up is that the width of that bicycle track now If we were to say it's a total failure, we don't like it, can flip that to be parking, and that's the exact width that we need the parking to be. So we can learn from this and we can actually revert quite easily. to another design. So that's all I've got. Thank you. |
| 04:03:28.30 | Kristina Feller | Fantastic. Thank you so much. And thank you as well for all the hard work. on this and all the other initiatives here in the city. So thank you. I WANT TO TELL YOU, I WANT TO Next we've got Vicki Nichols, welcome. You've got three minutes for public comment. If you could unmute and put your camera on if you'd like to. |
| 04:03:47.82 | Vicki Nichols | Hi, Chair Feller and commissioners. I wanna show appreciation for Kevin and also the bike and ped committee and David. I've attended some of these meetings and I've been frustrated with, the outreach and people not knowing about this. So I think this is a good first step. These are not little itty bitty changes. I don't think that you're gonna mitigate the parking. I also would like to say that There is currently a project on Caledonia Street to potentially close it down. And the bike and ped committee also wants to remove the median on bridgeway. So these are things that impact a lot of people. I'm not saying that they're not desirable. So I would encourage a more cohesive look at all these projects and not being piecemeal. David, I believe was responsible for the fabulous project in Mill Valley on Miller. that allows bikes and pedestrians and cars to coexist. I think that that's appropriate in some places, Just not sure that Sausalito is ready for every section to have this degree of improvement. I do think Nevada would be a good project, but I'd like to see numbers. There aren't that many bike riders now as admitted And we know that the schools are being combined. It won't be Willow Creek. It's going to be a joint meeting. In fact, I would have been at that meeting tonight. They're talking about that. So has the... Proponents looked at what the new configuration is gonna look like at that campus. They are reconfiguring some ways to go in and out. I just like a more cohesive look at all these pieces before we do some of these improvements. Regardless if we get the grant money, let's not waste the public's grant money if there's other ways to design them based on other factors. I do appreciate all the work. I hate to sound like the big grump, but I think that we need more cohesive planning on this. And it sounds like the city as the applicant doesn't need to go to planning and then this study session ability will replace that. So I think these are study sessions together I'm not sure they do. um, suggest approval but I'd like to know what that means Thank you. |
| 04:06:18.41 | Kristina Feller | Thank you very much. And just for clarification, this is a study session only. There's no action being taken this evening. Um, Don Cravens, welcome. You have three minutes for public comment. Thank you for staying on for so long. and we'd love to hear from you. |
| 04:06:38.97 | Don Cravens | Well, thank you for the opportunity to comment. Our home here on Marin Avenue overlooks the proposed site. And though we don't monitor traffic all day every day, we don't see much bicycle traffic on Nevada. unlike Bridgeway, which has considerable bicycle traffic, so of course bicycle lanes make sense there. I would hope we're doing a real analysis, a survey of the bicycle traffic on Nevada, to justify the expense and maintenance and governance of a bicycle lane. Additionally, I'm not aware of any accidents or incidents on Nevada that would necessitate a bicycle lane. Also, I know several weekday commuters in the area who use the parking spaces that we're talking about eliminating. That location is a bit of a park and ride. Though I'm close enough to walk to the bus stop at Nevada and Bridgeway, I'm concerned about people who are elderly or have mobility issues, and elimination of those spaces will have an impact on them. not to mention those who actually live on that street. I also understand that that city yard is potentially a location for a low income future, low income housing. So, We might have to pull this back out to accommodate them. And so like I'm hearing from the, from the, uh, presentation, I see some of this as an intent to actually increase ridership. But in some locations, the kids can ride on the sidewalk anyway. I don't know why they're not doing that there. and that also a part of this project, 100% of the kids wouldn't use anyway because they go through the parking spot. So, and from there, lastly, I'd just like to thank the commissioners for your service to our community. Thank you. |
| 04:08:18.68 | Kristina Feller | Thank you very much, Mr. Cravens. Thank you. The next person I have is Andy S. If you could state your full name for the record, if you don't mind. And you've got three minutes for public comment and welcome. |
| 04:08:34.68 | Andy Smith | Hi. Yeah, my name's Andy Smith. One second here. Lost my notes. Okay, yeah, so my wife and I, we live on Nevada Street. We've been here for over 20 years. When I heard about Oops. The host is asking to start the video. Okay, later. When I heard about the funding to calm the speeding on Nevada Street, I was hoping that the eastbound traffic would finally slow down. Initially, there was a mention that the funding uh, would not be removing any parking and it was going to be just for Nevada Street. After 20 years, we've had many close calls as pedestrians, vehicle drivers and cyclists all right in front of our house. We're located across the street from the city corporate yard and almost daily see pedestrians and vehicle close calls related to traffic turning to and from Tomales Street. Most people would think that living down the street from the school that there would be adequate signage and traffic call being implemented already. This is not the reality my wife and I have been experiencing. Nevada Street is currently a class three bike lane in which cyclists share the road with vehicles From Bridgeway Street heading West to Nevada Street. The city of Sausalito is invested in just a basic school sign. It's entirely too small and usually hidden when commuters are parked in front of it. White paint is used, white paint just says 25 in the middle of the street and one speed sign, one speed 25 sign is also easily blocked by parked trucks and cars. just before Buchanan, Street, slow is slightly painted on the street, followed by school, almost completely worn off the roadway. There's no signage anywhere. or street markings to indicate share the road. CONCERNING THE PROPOSAL ROOF TO REMOVE PARKING ON NEVADA STREET, A question needs to be asked and understood is why are people parking on Nevada Street? Another question is where are we going to move those people to? Some of the parking that's being consumed on Nevada Street is from corporate yard workers. There's usually at least two vehicles parked on Nevada Street because Tomales is filled. |
| 04:10:55.28 | Andy Smith | Let's see. So with a large amount of vehicle traffic and pedestrian traffic on Devastreet, it's a shame that the situation has not been taken more seriously with adequate investment in a long-term real solution. I strongly support updating appropriate signage and clearly including signage to share the road. A real solution is still needed to calm the traffic and having a dedicated bike lane and filling up the south side of the Nevada Street is not going to fix the speeding problem. It will increase the danger to both pedestrians and vehicles on the south side. All right, thank you. |
| 04:11:29.89 | Kristina Feller | Thank you very much, Mr. Smith. Thank you for your comments. |
| 04:11:35.63 | Andy Smith | Thank you. |
| 04:11:40.69 | Kristina Feller | Somehow I got muted. I have Joseph Lillis. I'm going to go ahead and get started. |
| 04:11:56.57 | Kristina Feller | Mr. Yeah, there we go. |
| 04:11:58.06 | Joseph Lillis | Check. 20 seconds to get the doop button door. |
| 04:12:01.28 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 04:12:01.99 | Joseph Lillis | you |
| 04:12:02.02 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 04:12:02.04 | Joseph Lillis | We've got... Okay, where do I start? I'm not sure. I live on Nevada. And in all the slides I'm not sure. the streets. My car was in it. in front of my house. And I have neighbors who have ADA plaques. who would have to walk blocks. to be able to park. It is. a solution in search of a problem. I have lived here 13 years. I have never seen an issue involving bicycles and children |
| 04:12:41.21 | Sandra Bushmaker | Thank you. |
| 04:12:43.94 | Joseph Lillis | even bicycles and adults. Now, the bicycles and adults were on Bridgeway, that's another story. There is, THERE ISN'T. no need for this. there is need for yes, like that. man just said. Sign. Stop science. blinking lights, anything. Stop the parents who are, who are, speeding up and down Nevada. don't make the people who live on the street MISERABLE. And there was a proposal to limit it to school hours. Well, if you limit it to school hours like this, Well, there. a little bit in the morning, a little bit at night. The residents would have to get up at 7 o'clock in the morning to move their car as if they lived in New York. I'm, The ADA thing, I mean, The whole matter of convenience for bicycles versus elderly. |
| 04:13:51.49 | Joseph Lillis | I'm trying to go through my The other complaint I have, the whole idea of labeling this meeting. the re-striping of Rip Attestry. is so misleading. It's not about re-striping. You're not changing it from white dots to yellow stripes. you're depriving the residents of their ability to park near their home. And admittedly, Someone said earlier, There are a lot of people on Vata who have multiple cars and no place to put them. But, That's the way it was when they bought their house. and they didn't expect anything to change. |
| 04:14:39.21 | Chris Matyszczyk | if, |
| 04:14:43.43 | Joseph Lillis | I keep trying to go through my notes and see what's important. home. Okay. the It really would make our lives miserable. and I really hope it does not go any further. Thank you. |
| 04:15:01.52 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Mr. Lillis. Thank you for making your comments this evening. Next person I have is Michelle Cunningham. Welcome this evening. You have three minutes for public comment. |
| 04:15:20.14 | Michelle Cunningham | Thank you. Hello. Hi, am I still muted? |
| 04:15:23.22 | Kristina Feller | You're okay. We can hear you. |
| 04:15:24.66 | Michelle Cunningham | THE END OF THE END OF THE All right, hello. So I'm Michelle. Cunningham. I am Joseph and Andy's neighbor. I live on Nevada Street across from the City Yard. South Side. BUT WE ALL DO PARK So this elimination of parking would be pretty have a very significant impact all of our guests as we do park on that side and there's no to cross the street. you know, with this. . Is there any, because there's a lot of you know, based on the Willow Creek, website on to school pre-COVID. I think it was four or five, maybe five at the most. who actually come from Bridgeway. Nevada to come school. So for five bikers in you know, yesterday. It would be nice to have more, but they are young enough. It's just, you know, it's an elementary school, so they are allowed to ride on the sidewalk. Um, So is there a way for those of us on our side to safely cross to the other side of the street to get to school. based on this proposed striping. or our guests. that all park on that side all of those spots are gonna be removed So now everybody has to park really far away. Guests or us or whomever. there's no safe way for them to cross the street to get to our side of the street. And besides the 17 spots, you know, are there any, Up above, I know in one, of these meetings, there was a proposal a few up above on Tamales might have to be removed too. And the street, you know, is not quite safe. for bicyclists anyway, you know, is there any, plan for the patches and the, you know, because it's, it's, It's just bumpy just crossing the street to get to my car. It's a. and such, not quite safe for for bicyclists to be riding at that street. Yeah. But anyway, I agree that there should be maybe more share the road, you know, maybe consideration for more. striping, share the road signs, and crosswalks and blinking lights and other things besides just a two-way hike path. and I think that's a great question. So now people are actually riding on the wrong side of the road. and still have to cross. or alternative routes I think there's just, you know, a few more alternative things that we can think of before we start, uh, permanently permanently removing you know, a considerable amount of parking for all of us that live in town homes. You know, there's a lot of us on this side of the street. that are gonna be impacted from this and won't be able to park anywhere close to our homes. Besides Joseph, who's you know, that house is on the side that's going to be He won't even have parking on his of the street whatsoever. That's all. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. |
| 04:18:26.77 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Ms. Cunningham. Thank you very much. Next I have Mike Miller. Welcome this evening. You have three minutes for public comment. And you can unmute, there you go. |
| 04:18:38.82 | Mike Miller | Hi, can you all hear me? |
| 04:18:40.24 | Kristina Feller | Yes. |
| 04:18:42.16 | Mike Miller | Say Mike Miller, hello. I don't live on Nevada, but you know, I heard compelling arguments from both sides. Like where are the male people going to park when they do male Are they going to have to walk across the street every time? And Amazon delivery people? I mean, those guys are just going to park right in the bike lane, right? Deliver their package and try to get out of there. I think that's an issue and we need to be able to defend against that. permits for parking. You know, we do have permits in Sausalito to be able to park in certain sections of the city. This is already a thing, right? can't you just get permits for the citizens, the people that live on Nevada Street? So they have designated almost, not designated, but, you know, they can park in these designated areas and leave a couple public spaces. Right? It does sound like public parking down there is an issue. And then, you know, that becomes an issue in a lot of streets. We have it a lot up here on Montemar, right? All the people that want to get onto the bus. They just pack the street side. It's kind of crazy. I do see a very big lot, like right on the corner, the, what is this? west north corner of bridgeway and nevada It's just trees. What's there? Who owns it? Do we know? |
| 04:20:08.88 | Mike Miller | Sorry, can you guys hear me? |
| 04:20:10.42 | Kristina Feller | Yes, sorry, Mr. Miller. Yes, this is not, we're just here to take the public comment. |
| 04:20:16.06 | Mike Miller | Oh, I'm just asking, do we know who owns that parcel? |
| 04:20:18.86 | Kristina Feller | I think we'll get to some of the details of that through our public works director, but do you have any other additional comments? |
| 04:20:26.67 | Mike Miller | Maybe we can build parking there or something. Crossing the street. I think, and this will help slow traffic on the street. I've ridden my bike down that street. um intermediate crosswalks if you just put a couple intermediate crosswalks along the street you know where people can ring a bell it'll slow traffic immediately i do want to know is there a restriction on e-bikes in this new plan like is it restricted at all to class one or class three e-bikes So that's a question I had. And then I've never, I don't have a lot of experience of riding bikes on the wrong side of the road, even when two people are coming at you at the same time from bike in traffic. Is that safer? potentially. Like, are there studies on that? And that's all. That's those, those are my questions. |
| 04:21:19.10 | Kristina Feller | Thank you very much Mr. Miller. |
| 04:21:21.82 | Mike Miller | Thanks. |
| 04:21:23.64 | Kristina Feller | Karen Hollweg, Any other public comment at this time. I think most people have already commented that are still on the call here. Eric B. Welcome this evening you've got three minutes for public comment you can unmute yourself and look forward to hearing from you. |
| 04:21:50.00 | Kristina Feller | There we go. Thank you. You can unmute yourself. |
| 04:21:58.28 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 04:21:58.40 | Eric B. | Thank you. |
| 04:21:58.42 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 04:21:58.43 | Eric B. | Okay, can you hear me now? Yes. |
| 04:21:58.49 | Kristina Feller | So, Yes. |
| 04:22:00.97 | Eric B. | Okay, thank you. Bye. |
| 04:22:09.07 | Eric B. | Sorry about that technical difficulties. I just had a quick comment regarding the comment that was made earlier about the Buchanan crosswalk. There actually is no Buchanan crosswalk. that's up above towards the daycare and it is it is totally useless in that in that area You can just tell by the upkeep of the sign that's been hit multiple times that that's the care that our city provides. And I'm just worried that a few years down the line, this is what we're gonna see on the bike paths and all the signage that we have already. Um, I guess the other comment that I had, there was actually, I had a question about, you know, right now currently, is there a count of parking spaces currently available? along Nevada, you know, what's the the current available parking right now on Nevada, Tomales and Watery Street and Buchanan Drive and what will be the count after the restriping project. There's got to be some sort of number. Um, Let me see if there's anything else I just wanted to add. um, just that there really isn't I think after the restriping I think they're taking a few more spots on the south side just past Buchanan as the road narrows I don't think if they Nevada Street all the way up to the freeway, you'd find that there's really no place to park. So I don't think there's, it's gonna be, there's, you know, yes, we could walk up the hill to go parking, but I think it's gonna be limited there. So I was wondering if there was a number of how many parking spots there will be after the striking was done. I think that's all I really had to add. |
| 04:23:53.73 | Kristina Feller | Terrific. Thank you so much. Appreciate your comments and being here. |
| 04:23:57.18 | Eric B. | it. |
| 04:23:59.02 | Kristina Feller | At this time, are there any other public comments? If so, please raise your hand. Okay, I'm seeing none. So at this time I'm going to close public comment. and bring any further discussion or comments or Kevin or David if you wanted to add anything or comment on anything from what you heard this evening. Now would be a great time to do that. |
| 04:24:28.69 | Kevin McGowan | Sounds good. Just want to thank everybody for making comments this evening. We really appreciate it. Want to thank the commissioners as well. Each chance I get, this is something new that we're moving forward with. So really appreciate that. I'm going to kind of run through some of the comments that I've written down. The number of parking spaces upwards on Nevada Street and Watery. No, I haven't counted them yet. We will need to do that in the future. And we'll bring that back to the Pedestrian Advisory Committee. So remember that we're trying to kind of angle things back to the Pedestrian Advisory Committee. And if you have future inquiries about that, we should bring that information to that group. As far as e-bikes, in the future, if we decide to move forward with this project, this will be a public pathway. So everybody can use it, regardless of whether you are a, pedaling that bicycle yourself or using an electric bike. As far as crosswalks, mid-block crossings, David, maybe you want to step in on that one too. Safety wise, we're not thrilled with mid-block crossings, especially coming down a hillside like this one. There may be some safety measures that we can put in, such as a rapid flashing beacon and some other things. But we tend to try to stay away from those mid-block crossings just from a safety perspective. David, do you want to add anything to that? |
| 04:25:54.94 | David Parisi | Oh, I would agree with you, Kevin. They're not a device to slow down traffic by any stretch of the imagination. As part of the project that we did consider potential as a future phase, Tamales across Nevada at that location by the stairs It's on the inside of a curve. Um, You know we are pretty confident with that with the striping changes speeds could be as their foresight distances increased. So that could be a potential future project. It would require some ADA ramp upgrades. that could be a potential location that is not mid-block, It's at a crosswalk and as we heard some folks say the difficulty of just crossing the street that could be, could be very advantageous at a future date. |
| 04:26:40.08 | Kevin McGowan | Thanks, David. Some of the other comments were very well stated, such as the existing striping is faded. There is some of this, the street itself is a little bit rough. And that's true. We need to take a look at that from a city perspective and consider improvements to the actual roadway surface. So I'll work with my staff on that as well as work with our maintenance group to take a look at what we can do at least right now to improve some of the striping that's there or the signage. So those are very good comments and we appreciate that. Let's see, let's take a look at some of these other analysis for the right, excuse me, the bicycles traveling to the school. I think we'll need to take a look at that and work with our advisory committee on gaining some of that information especially in association with the reconfiguration of the school's school property itself so I know they're not they're not quite to a point where they say, we're going to reconfigure in this manner, but they're getting close. So we need to work together on that in the future. And I know David's involved with that from Safe Routes to School, and our PBAC will be involved with that as well. So those are the basic things at this point. Optimally, if we were to decide to move forward with this project, I've always stated that I would like to put in a micro seal. In other words, recoat this roadway so it is more of a blacktop system and then put the stripes on top so that they pop out. That's important. Now at this point, the grant that we applied for doesn't include that, but I'm currently working on our capital improvement program and we'll look at trying to make improvements to this roadway. In comparison to the rest of the 20 miles of roads that we have in Sausalito as well. So again, I appreciate the comments and we'll take those to heart and see if we can make some improvements down here for striping and signage, as well as roadway surface, and try to incorporate those into this project, as well as communication with the school system and others. |
| 04:28:55.69 | Kristina Feller | MS. Outstanding. Outstanding. Thank you so much. Um, commissioners do you have any, Additional questions or anything that came to mind as we were listening to public comment, |
| 04:29:07.53 | Unknown | . |
| 04:29:07.99 | Kristina Feller | Um, that you'd like to add? |
| 04:29:13.49 | Kristina Feller | Yes, Commissioner Pearson. |
| 04:29:14.40 | Morgan Pierce | I was just curious, you know, there's the Willow Creek restoration site that I think somebody in the public alluded to. And I'm just wondering, you know, you look at it, there is potential to cross a pathway through that and then between the Willows and the City Corporation yard. I was wondering if that was you considered. I know there's some rules about developing that. We couldn't turn that area into parking, but is there potential for creating a bike path, not on Nevada there, but, um, something that connects Bridgeway with tomorrow is in a safer way. and also gives us opportunity to create you know, some sort of nice natural green space and maybe the the daylighting of Willow Creek, et cetera, et cetera. |
| 04:29:56.25 | Kevin McGowan | Those are all good comments. Remember that the development of a school system doesn't go through the planning commission. It's got to go through the state architect. and making sure that we get involved with that process early to make these suggestions is important, but that doesn't guarantee that any changes will actually happen. So my point is that we need to get involved with their decision makers and be part of that process. So that's a good suggestion. We'll try to do that, especially with David and myself participating in Safe Routes to School, which is a key group that's involved with the process. |
| 04:30:29.87 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 04:30:33.44 | Kristina Feller | Excellent. Commissioner Saad, do you have any other questions or comments? |
| 04:30:39.10 | Nastassya Saad | No, I think I don't have any other questions. I just think that. the parking concerns. just as a member of the public myself and the residents also you know I share a lot of the So I think it's just something we want to probably take into consideration as we make any type of advisement here, but no other questions. |
| 04:30:59.26 | Kristina Feller | All right. Thank you. Commissioner Luxenberg? |
| 04:31:03.48 | Jeffery Luxenberg | No, I just want to thank Kevin. I think it's great that you've come before us you know, give us an update on this and other things in the city. And actually coordination with these kinds of issues with us is helpful. So I appreciate all your efforts on that. |
| 04:31:19.76 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. Vice Chair Graff. |
| 04:31:23.93 | Richard Graef | and Yeah, you know. I think it's great to have that we have an opportunity to get this out there uh, ourselves and the public I think it's a work in progress and it ain't there yet. There are a lot of issues. I think the parking is, serious issue for a lot of people. Um, as well as the long range look at this in terms of If there's a lot of investment, at this point in time, Is that going to be valid some years down the road or is that going to be kind of um, lost in the shuffle somewhere. I really don't know. I think Nevada Street is a real problem. with vehicle speed. It's downhill and people just like to let go, but I'm telling you, You have to go slow there. So anything that will help people slow down encourage people to slow down, I think would be really beneficial. I'm intrigued with the Um... kind of pedestrian bicycle uh, two-way I know it's an expensive solution and if it was If it turns out that statistically it's a good solution, then it might be worth trying to find the money to do that. Cause I think that would be a nice way to handle this. All these others seem to be almost kind of like band-aids so far. But anyway, It's good thinking going on here, and thank everybody for working on this. |
| 04:33:19.63 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Vice Chair. Just a couple of final comments. just for consideration and that is As you're looking at crosswalk striping or bike lane or anything like that, are you incorporating reflectors into that solution. And also particularly in the Nevada between Bridgeway um, And Coloma, I mean, is there any pathway lighting? Not bright lights like streetlights, but anything that can light that pathway Because it's a little bit dark over there. with all the vegetation, or maybe you can cut the vegetation back a little bit if that's on city property. Is that something that you could consider to incorporate both those items. |
| 04:34:16.65 | Kevin McGowan | So I'm slightly confused. What you're suggesting is that there's a pathway between Paloma and Nevada Street. |
| 04:34:26.23 | Kristina Feller | No between bridge on on Nevada that the first stretch of this safe route to school. So if you cross bridgeway you're on Nevada. |
| 04:34:35.70 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:34:36.33 | Kristina Feller | and then you're heading towards the school, that first block, you know, from the corporation yard to Bridgeway. Um, Is there an opportunity to do any pathway lighting? Not street lighting, but just on the pathway so it won't bother neighbors. But it's very dark right there. |
| 04:34:54.25 | Kevin McGowan | At this point, the application doesn't include that. but that's a very healthy comment that we would need to take a look at. I would have to refer back to David to see his experience in other areas. If other areas throughout Marin have actually included something like this and probable expense for it too. David, have you seen this other places? |
| 04:35:19.37 | David Parisi | It's possible. It's a great comment. Something we could take a look at. you know, for the bikeway or for a pathway, depending on which direction this goes. The other question was about signing. and all the payment markings would be done thermal plastic with reflective glass in them. And all the street signs, including the school area signs, would be replaced with signs with much better retro reflectivity. Thank you. |
| 04:35:46.56 | Unknown | you |
| 04:35:46.61 | David Parisi | Thank you. So that'd be part of the project. |
| 04:35:49.43 | Unknown | Great. That's great. |
| 04:35:51.37 | Kevin McGowan | The only thing I'd add to that is in some communities when we add the raised pavement markers, they make a lot of noise when the cars drive over them. So we might want to consider looking at that first because creating that much noise can be problematic for the neighbors in the middle of the night. |
| 04:36:02.00 | Phil Barthman | Thank you. |
| 04:36:02.02 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 04:36:02.05 | Phil Barthman | So, |
| 04:36:11.06 | Kristina Feller | Fair point. Excellent point. Those are all the comments I had at this time. Again, this being a study session. I know we all thank you for bringing this to us, for allowing us the time to hear. your ideas and to opening it up to the public through this forum and this commission. Thank you for doing that. Thank you for all the hard work. safe routes to school for our children should be top on our list of priority. So thank you for all the thought and effort and I think Oh, Erin is still here. Thank you, Erin. Karen and the rest of the payback group. Thank you very much. |
| 04:36:56.25 | Kevin McGowan | Thank you. We really appreciate the commission and your input. Feel free to reach out to staff at any time if something else comes to mind. We're still going to discuss this at the Pedestrian Bicycle Advisory Committee. So if the folks on the call think that they still have more things to add, Please join us on our feedback meetings. |
| 04:37:20.17 | Kristina Feller | Excellent. Thank you so much. Thank you for hanging in so late. |
| 04:37:28.30 | Kristina Feller | All right. Director Whalen. We have one last agenda. |
| 04:37:32.25 | Director Whalen | Thank you. Thank you. All right, we have all our commissioners still here. It's 11 o'clock still before midnight. Doing good. |
| 04:37:38.41 | Richard Graef | I'm sorry. |
| 04:37:38.53 | Kristina Feller | All right. |
| 04:37:38.83 | Richard Graef | Thank you. Oh, it's early. It's early. It is early. |
| 04:37:39.98 | Director Whalen | THE END OF THE END OF THE It is early. For us. It is early. So our next and last item on our agenda this evening is a study session for a discussion of community development department streamlining and I am happy to introduce you and present EDAC Chair and EDAC is the Economic Development Advisory Committee. the chair Tom Riley and he will be giving the presentation this evening for you. So if we could Hopefully Tom's still here. Okay, good. I see him. |
| 04:38:10.44 | Kristina Feller | see him. |
| 04:38:11.23 | Director Whalen | Great. Well, I'm asking to unmute and start his video. |
| 04:38:17.34 | Kristina Feller | Great. Welcome. |
| 04:38:20.19 | Tom Riley | Okay, good evening. um thank you planning commission for your hard work Let me correct that. Thank you for your hard volunteering. We appreciate your service to the community. Um, I will share my presentation and I will try to be very, very efficient for you. |
| 04:38:48.12 | Tom Riley | Okay, I'll confirm that the screen is okay. |
| 04:38:50.67 | Kristina Feller | Yeah. |
| 04:38:51.78 | Tom Riley | All right, thank you all. My name's Tom Riley, I'm the chair of the Economic Development Advisory Committee. We are hoping to get your feedback today on a project that we've been working on at the request of city council. Back in December, we took the Cosmont report and it had 39 recommendations of things the city can do. And we narrowed down to six that we presented to city councils, our recommendation. The city council asked us to focus in on three areas. the top three that are shown here. Today, we want to report to you on our efforts to come back with recommendations to city council on revamping the city permit process, which was the number one issue came forward from our Research and the Cosmon Report. just to give you a sense of what we've done since December. We formed a working committee. On that committee is Monica Finnegan, Cass Green, myself. working in concert with director Lalique Whelan, Um, We have met with landlords, we've met with merchants, property owners, respected architects, brokers, as well as we've had a number of working sessions with the staff. We had a wonderful engagement with San Rafael. We've had a number of calls with them. And we also now are tonight presenting to you in the planning commission. This blue box in the below was actually for our committee, EDAC, to inform them that you are also talking about streamlining the public review process. I listened to your February 17th meeting. You've had some great, great recommendations there. Um, And I've sat through your whole meeting tonight. I can see how even late mail can be a challenging thing for you in your deliberations. So there's things we can do open in the public review process. But our work is really over the counter, starting at the beginning of getting a permit, How you track it, how you follow through, what goes to you know the planning commission and what doesn't so that's where our work has been What we learned is that We've gotten a lot of feedback. Well, before we start engaging and anecdotally, But Sausalito is considered very difficult to work with. Now, all cities kind of get that reputation, but within Miranda, Sausalito stands out as one of the most difficult to work with. Our permitting process is very complex. It's very confusing. um and it actually discourages new projects we've heard a number of times people that won't start projects because of our complexity Everyone's dissatisfied, our technology's very antiquated Our city staff is under-resourced, working as best as they can. I will call out to our city staff, every stakeholder, that we have. So this is not about attitude or approach the job. This is the tools we have, the resources we have, the processes that are really hindering our staff from doing their job. |
| 04:41:42.82 | Sandra Bushmaker | We have |
| 04:41:50.96 | Tom Riley | So we identified with staff five goals that if we can improve things, what would they be? and I won't read them to you here, but the five are listed on the left. The top one being, how do we just improve the time to get a permit issue? And the stats are pretty concerning. businesses out there that have been trying to get permits approved for four years. not four months, we're talking years. And so how do we really start streamlining these processes? You can see the other objectives here. What we've identified are 34 proposed actions that we can take as a city, Cheers. become much more streamlined, deliver better customer satisfaction, become more business friendly, and to actually improve our revenues to the city. Now, San Rafael, is respected as the number one municipality in Marin, to work with and get permits through. And when we met with them, Their challenges sounded very much like ours, but seven years ago, and they started tackling them and did many similar projects. It took them seven years. We're proposing to do our work in two and a half years. The way we're gonna do that is we've identified We put those 34 projects So, we're going to have a couple of different things lasting over two and a half years. And we've mapped these to our fiscal years for the city so that where we need budget, we can apply in our fiscal planning process. But in phase one, now through the end of next fiscal year, We want to do very tactical projects, the low hanging fruit. Things where we can start getting impact return very quickly. Phase two is where we start tackling some of the harder jobs around systems and more complex processes. Then phase three is where we have projects that are more for continual improvement. We don't have time and I'm not gonna walk you through all 34 of our action items. I'm gonna show you the structure of our work and highlight some of them so you get a sense of what we're recommending. And then we can take questions or ideas and we can answer if we've already thought of those. So if you look at this chart, every one of these projects has a project name. Behind this PowerPoint is a spreadsheet that has a detailed explanation of each project It talks about the pros and cons, the dependencies and whether we can start it or not. And a lot of information, but this is a summary chart. But for every project, we have three columns. If we're going to tackle this project, how much staff resource time will it take? Will we require a consultant? or do we need project funds to invest in technology or what have you? So you can see here, like the second item, We'd like to start with a customer survey, look at the prior year applicants and get their feedback on their experience with us. We believe it'll take one person to set up the questions, work with a consultant and issue a survey for $5,000. So that'll give you a sense of how we've structured these You can see that we want to conduct a 2020 audit review and look back at projects that are stuck and see if we can unstick those. Introducing multiple communication methods. So is there a way to go beyond phone and counter and have things like Slack or emails or portals we can communicate with? working in the marineship has been very difficult for staff. When a project comes in, just to find information about that lot is very difficult to have parcels. We wanna put a parcel track ID system in place, which will improve efficiency. Item two, a permit ombudsperson This one implemented in phase one and have it go away after phase one. But while we're putting all these systems in place, we believe an ombudsperson can really be a bandaid to help permit folks applying, understand the processes, the challenge you might encounter, and be a streamlining person to help them communicate better with staff or staff with them, Kind of keep an eye on helping drive these. new tracking system. We talked about pre-approved parklet designs, And here we'll wrap up on phase one. But item here in the top is monthly vacant property reviews. Currently we have 12 um business vacancies in our town. And most of those are in our downtown in the retail sector there. What we like to do is have the landlords meet with our staff, and talk about what a prospective tenant might need to do from a permitting standpoint and try to anticipate that and get ahead of it and make our buildings more attractive to tenants. You can see we want to do customer interaction surveys on an ongoing basis, start beginning that process. And at the bottom of this page, we're recommending to hire a project management consultant to start driving these changes to work with Director Whalen and her staff. because when you start seeing the summaries, you'll realize that we don't have the resources to implement these projects, and change is hard if you don't have someone driving it. So phase one has 18 projects. We're estimating it to take 12 and a half person months of staff effort to just oversee these projects. We're recommending $115,000 of consulting, and that's for the ombudsperson and a project manager consultant and $65,000 of funding. So that's an example of how our phase one looks. Phase two is further out, but I'll give you some sense of some of the ideas we have here. Put more electronic forms for applicants, move from paper. have more things online. Look at our historic review process, which really seems to hold things up. And is there a way to get more efficient or do some things in parallel? Chair Feller, I will point out here at the bottom We put in place Pursue Enforcement Plans And this was something that you brought forward to me. We discussed this at the EDAC. We actually think we're doing a disservice by putting as one of these 34 projects We decided on Monday that we're going to pull this one out as a specific project in and of itself. where we can go back and really give the city some hard recommendations of what it means to pursue enforcement and what are some procedures to do that. We're gonna look at our fees, consider ministerial reviews, what drives those and what doesn't. These are all things we do in the next year out. Sorry about the acronym SMART, but we want to introduce a streamlined, multidisciplinary accelerated review team So instead of ping-ponging an applicant between many different folks on staff, We have a streamlined team that can cross all disciplines that can meet with an applicant who's streamlined things. So phase two is 12 projects. It'll take 17 person months of effort of our staff. we require some consulting to us. And then finally, phase three, we have just these projects in phase three, which are further out. But this is where we want to... Consider things like a pass is a pre-qualified architectural submittal system So where we can work with some of our better known architects who are more pre-qualified, get up, sorry, some approvals there, look at shared services with other organizations in other ways we can move towards self-certification of building plans or self-certified inspections and some other cities have started doing these things we believe in phase three we can start considering those So phase three here, eight and a half per month of effort, $120,000 expense. I'm gonna conclude with just a business case because we are recommending the city invest to address our permit process and we believe and we're going to be able to can have a significant impact. So we put together a conservative business case and we said, All right, at the time we made this presentation, there was eight retail vacancies. We now have 12, but if we can fill those six months sooner, If we can increase our sales tax revenue by 2%, 4%, and 5% of each phase, And our business license tax, the same percentages. Coming off a COVID year, this should be very, very achievable. |
| 04:50:28.80 | Unknown | Never should. |
| 04:50:29.10 | Tom Riley | The numbers should be more like 5%, 10%, 15% who want a very conservative case. And in out years, if we increase our permitting fees, How would this look? Well, it turns out that the upper group is our increased revenues. So you can see this in 309,000 all the way up to 394,000 increased revenues. And the lower case for the investments we're asking for, 285,000 down to 192, as high as 356 in phase two. but in no year do our investments exceed our revenues in an extremely conservative revenue case. So we believe we have a sense of urgency to do this. to improve our process, change our reputation, become much more business friendly, help our current businesses, you know, upgrade their properties and attract the tenants that we want. And then the last one, I don't wanna address it here, but I do wanna share that EDAC is focused on how do we start attracting businesses into our vacancies that are businesses we desire as a community. that serves the local residents and the regional community and move away from a dependency on tourism. So we have a separate project on that. So we'll be going to city council. Our plan is to send them a letter with this detailed plan in our recommendations Um, asking them to give authority to implement phase one action items. We're asking them to hire a staff in this coming fiscal year. to, bring on a project manager. and a ombudsperson as a placeholder. and to include $65,000 in new fiscal budget. And all of this will be offset by our projected revenues. So with that, that concludes my presentation. I went through it quickly, but I wanna respect your your late night in your time. |
| 04:52:25.34 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Tom. Thank you so much for for the slides and the explanation. So let's go ahead and open it up to the commissioners. and I know we still have a couple people here from the public Um, uh so i just want to remind everybody to to frame expectations here that this is a study session And so there's no specific action being taken by the planning commission this evening this isn't an approval or anything like that this is a just a discussion and study session Um, So I'll start us off just real quick, and then I'm going to ask the commissioners to weigh in here. And this is just a quick one, Tom. The, um. The presentation you gave, are you looking for our input and thoughts behind it, or have you already issued something to city council? |
| 04:53:23.59 | Tom Riley | We have not issued anything to city council. We're prepared, but we wanted to first come in front of you. and hear your thoughts, your ideas, Um, before we complete our work. |
| 04:53:35.02 | Kristina Feller | Got it. Okay. So let's go ahead and open this up to the commissioners. Commissioner Pierce. |
| 04:53:44.21 | Morgan Pierce | Yeah, thank you, Tom, so much for the presentation. It seems like some exciting things are afoot. I really only had one question. I'm a little bit curious about the pre-approved parklet process. Could you dig into that a little bit more or is there not enough detail yet? to do so. |
| 04:54:00.33 | Tom Riley | Well, we've had a number of discussions. I don't know if you've been on Fillmore Street in San Francisco. but it looks like a shanty towel. Um, |
| 04:54:09.80 | Unknown | I'm not. |
| 04:54:10.47 | Tom Riley | There is, you know, all different designs of parklets some are really poor And we believe that Parkland's going to be a great addition to our community. However, we want to have consistency and quality to those park lists if we are going down that path There's a number of requests coming in. And so one of the things that we are proposing is that we work with an architect to come up with kind of a pre-approved design that could be streamlined for a retailer who wants a parklet that's cost-effective to get approved. So that's our thinking. We haven't done any work yet on the design, We're at the point of just recommending that it would be a good idea to do. |
| 04:54:50.77 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you very much. |
| 04:54:53.28 | Kristina Feller | Right. Commissioner Saad, |
| 04:54:56.72 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you Chair Feller and yes thank you for the presentation. curious if you This is a little bit more general but do you know how many projects if you've done that 2020 review how many are actually in that stuck phase. |
| 04:55:13.77 | Tom Riley | Director Whalen is on with us, so she might be able to answer that. |
| 04:55:18.02 | Nastassya Saad | just for scope. |
| 04:55:22.75 | Director Whalen | Karen Hollweg, I don't have an accurate answer for you, Commissioner sad of the number of a. I'm assuming you're referring to projects that um, have been submitted but not no action taken on them or the applicant hasn't um |
| 04:55:35.13 | Sandra Bushmaker | Thank you. |
| 04:55:35.17 | Nastassya Saad | No action. |
| 04:55:39.91 | Director Whalen | ping staff about the status. Yeah, I don't have an accurate number for you. |
| 04:55:42.46 | Nastassya Saad | I don't know. Okay no problem I was just I was just curious. I don't think I have too many questions overall just as a general call out Chair Feller and Mayor Hoffman had approached me for some of this initial work around the on ombudsman and I'm definitely happy to help I think I think the concept in general is a really great idea. just from coming from the historic preservation commission I've only been on the planning commission for about four months now but we had taken a few steps in that regard and made some changes when we were going through the general plan update as well. And for some of the changes to the municipal code around around streamlining and we looked to the city of San Francisco and adopted some of their paperwork. So a Certificate of Appropriateness for example I think helped us. improve in some areas and I think just as some General feedback and of course I know everything comes down to a budget constraint but I was just doing a little research and I know you guys called out center file and I'm sure they are doing what you're looking for as well but looking at and maybe I can share this link around at some point but. um, the San Francisco Business Portal. THEY HAVE A, They have what they call a starter kit. four permit processes, it's almost like a menu that you choose. Are you opening a restaurant? Are you opening a hair salon and different types of businesses and then it's a bit of a checklist and direct links and what do you need and how can you get started to give people almost a. on what they need to do. get in order to start there. processes. So I just think it's a really great resource. I'm happy to share it. But I don't think I have any other questions other than I think it's a great presentation and I think it would be really useful |
| 04:57:55.28 | Tom Riley | Thank you, Commissioner. We will look at that San Francisco work. That is one of our... Our desire is to have an online portal that has a type of project with the checklist and make sure that at the first submittal, |
| 04:58:03.06 | Nastassya Saad | as a person. |
| 04:58:03.35 | Sandra Bushmaker | Thank you. |
| 04:58:07.58 | Tom Riley | Someone's submitting all the things that they're required I'm not sure if I'm not sure if I'm out of the get-go versus a partially and then it goes back to that ping pong. It's exactly what we hope to do. And that's, I think, one of our phase two projects. |
| 04:58:22.85 | Nastassya Saad | Great. |
| 04:58:24.98 | Kristina Feller | I think that's important too, just to add to that, not to piggyback on you, Commissioner Saad, But when projects do get kicked to HPC, to historic preservation, rather than a direct permit. I mean, that Sometimes applicants don't know that. And so... One of the initiatives we have been pushing for some time is also inventory and mapping of historic properties. as one example here in the city so that we would already know what might trigger that HPC review. So if somebody is applying Then, then. based on an APN number, what have you, or an address, that would already trigger that element of what a permit or review might be, because it's not always black and white. It's not always obvious. Okay, Commissioner Luxenberg. |
| 04:59:28.23 | Kristina Feller | You're on mute. There. |
| 04:59:32.36 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I heard about that. Thank you for the presentation. Streamlining is one of my big issues. I've only been on here for four months, and I think streamlining is extremely important. I'm going to give you some suggestions. I thought about this a lot last night, and I am a little worried with 34 items. And your presentation, although excellent presentation, the audience is more the city council because you're looking for funding to get done a bunch of things. I would like to make a couple suggestions that are very specific. your first two items in the phase one, one's mapping out the existing process and then second doing a survey of applicants. I think that to jumpstart this, let me give you a slightly different approach that you might want to think about, which is define what are the main permits that businesses needs. There are parklets, there are new buildings, there are CUPs, whatever the list is. There's probably five or six or seven key things that businesses need when they come in. And I would, instead of doing this long mapping out whatever I would go and do five or six case studies of like what was what did somebody do with a parklet when did they submit it what what steps did they go through and and what was the result did become to the planning Commission did it continue get continued to continue more than once and and lay out for like four or five examples of permits, what exactly happened, rather than asking somebody a survey of what they thought, they're gonna tell you it took too long, I had to, all these changes or whatever. Because I believe that if we start at the beginning, And we take an example of a parklet or a CUP and find out what questions got asked in the three continuances that they had. That had we asked a certain question in the beginning, we might have been able to do it faster. So I think if you just looked at a couple things, you might see where the problems are. And so, you know, you can lay out the whole permitting process, but I think if you got some, you know, key examples, talk to the staff of what happened through that process, you could see where all the problems are and come up immediately with solutions. that won't take two and a half years to implement. So again, that's just my suggestion. |
| 05:02:10.08 | Tom Riley | I'm going to comment, that's a very good suggestion. We're doing something, we actually have five or six projects currently underway. that we were babysitting through. |
| 05:02:20.42 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 05:02:20.81 | Tom Riley | and is part of babysitting as EDAC members with the applicants, we're learning a lot. Um, and Director Whalen Willow-Tess that were like on top of these projects, figure out how we can usher them through faster. And you're right, Commissioner. We're learning a tremendous amount that way. And so, um, and i think you know rather than boiling the ocean we do want to start incrementally so thank you for that advice |
| 05:02:48.08 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you for accepting the suggestion. |
| 05:02:52.90 | Kristina Feller | Right. I'm vice chair of Graf. |
| 05:02:56.43 | Richard Graef | Well, this is not my cup of tea. but I had a question. the ombudsperson? Is that somebody who is tasked with helping applicants through the process? Is that how I'm understanding this? |
| 05:03:15.55 | Tom Riley | Yes, Commissioner Graff, we believe that until we put these changes in place, before we have an online portal, more self-service information, that an ombudsperson who's familiar with how to navigate our systems could be a great aid to applicants. |
| 05:03:26.00 | Richard Graef | I'm not sure. |
| 05:03:30.06 | Richard Graef | Yeah. |
| 05:03:30.76 | Tom Riley | So that would be their role. Not a permanent role. when we start improving our systems. |
| 05:03:39.61 | Richard Graef | Thank you. Yeah, once it gets improved. Yeah, okay, good. That's what I thought. Well, I think that's a great idea. Um, It's a big project. Thank you for all your effort here. and streamlining and And working on the whole process, I think, would be a benefit to all of us. Um, um, on the planning commission. There are many, many instances where things have gotten stuck. |
| 05:04:12.30 | Unknown | you |
| 05:04:12.54 | Richard Graef | And, but I was wondering, I mean, you've estimated a bunch of fees and costs. that it might take to implement of some of these programs. And and showing how that could be offset by revenues potentially would come in if some of these projects got through that are languishing. or they weren't even there. um, But I always am a little suspicious about those kind of numbers because they always seem to double when you get right down to it. So I don't know, I know you have a sort of |
| 05:04:55.25 | Sandra Bushmaker | I'm not going to be able to |
| 05:04:59.04 | Richard Graef | a conservative and a more optimistic range for those, but, um, I'm just wondering how you got to those numbers. Well, |
| 05:05:12.97 | Tom Riley | Commissioner Graff, we Um, on the expense side of things, They're pretty specific when it comes to consultants. We kind of size what we need for consultants, and we're recommending, you know, we're not saying, hey, just a big consulting project. We're saying, hey, we need an ombudsperson, you know, two to three days a week, you know, and here's what we expect the rates are for this period of time. And I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. rather than just big pie in the sky numbers and everything's gonna be great, we just said, let's just take a look, so coming off COVID, was a conservative approach and we believe that |
| 05:05:49.72 | Unknown | I'm not. |
| 05:05:51.71 | Tom Riley | If we are not considered better to do business with, or we're not attracted to new tenants, Our 12 vacancies can go to 14 or 15 and they could be vacant for 10 months, 12 months. And so our landlords are having a hard time retracting tenants. We believe that with the city, with having an ombudsperson talking to some prospective tenants. Because we have a reputation we're hard to do business with. That scares tenants away. We've got an ombudsperson that brings them in. Um, Eight vacancies translates to about $600,000 annually of sales tax. Now the city doesn't get all that. City gets roughly about, I think, close to a hundred thousand of that between BLT, what have you. But as you see, vacancies, right? And then of course we want our current businesses, you know, fixing up their facilities. and that generates permit fees and newer businesses will generate revenues. So, We certainly, and this is incremental, what we're asking to do in first year is not a significant investment. The big investment comes in, right, where we're putting in systems and what have you. |
| 05:07:05.00 | Richard Graef | Okay, good. Well, it just helps me to understand your thinking And the you know, financial end of this whole effort. So great, thank you. I don't have any other questions, really. I'm just looking forward to some good results. |
| 05:07:28.74 | Kristina Feller | Good job. think we all are. This is great. Um, So I had a couple questions and comments, and these are in no particular order. But I wrote down the past, which is what project architect, like approving their own work or what? Tell me again what that meant. |
| 05:07:49.18 | Tom Riley | I'll let... Director Whelan explained PASS, the pre-qualified architectural submittal system. |
| 05:07:56.35 | Director Whalen | Sure thing. So this actually, so this does not bypass any city processes or standards. What it does is it requires architects that want to Um, not go through an intake submittal session with staff to do a training that basically has them go through the city's checklist and requirements for submittal to planning and building. and pass that system somehow, get certified through that system. and then be able to move forward and submit an application without doing an initial intake or discussion with staff that normally happens when they intake. So that's a system I think that is being used by I think Sacramento is where I found that system being used, just an idea of something that might expedite things for the customers, but not bypass any processes on the city's end. |
| 05:08:57.44 | Kristina Feller | Um, |
| 05:09:01.15 | Kristina Feller | Okay. And then you had mentioned Is that a blanket inspection? Or is it a blanket inspection? certain types of inspection because there's some that I would say absolutely categorically no. they should not be certifying their own inspection. |
| 05:09:24.10 | Director Whalen | So this is something that I'm definitely cautious about and would like to learn more information about from other communities that use this type of system for self certifying both their building permit plans and then inspections as well. Definitely understand the concerns. I have those concerns myself. Our building inspector and building official have those concerns too. So this one is definitely in my mind, more on the explore side of things. And maybe there's something that comes out of it that could be beneficial for the community and the city as well. That's the concept. Um, definitely on a tentative exploration, see how it may fit for Sausalito. |
| 05:10:08.67 | Kristina Feller | Okay. And I'm assuming that would just be for certain not major structural or. |
| 05:10:13.39 | Director Whalen | It would, and sorry to not answer your question. It would be for folks who went through again, some sort of training and they were, |
| 05:10:14.44 | Kristina Feller | not yet. |
| 05:10:21.71 | Director Whalen | they were certified in order to certify their own plans and inspections for Sausalito. And again, this is not something that I've seen a lot in other communities. I have seen it a little bit in some other communities. So something definitely, you know, a lot of cons that I can think of and also some pros too. |
| 05:10:39.77 | Kristina Feller | Okay. One of the things we have been trying to explore as a city in general is shared services. and particularly through COVID, are there ways to you know, not sort of work independently in a silo in Sausalito or a silo in Mill Valley or Sandra Fowler, you know, fill in the blank, whatever city and neighbor you wanna add in. And it seems like instead of trying to absorb all the expenditure and exposure, there might be some value in shared resources even on a temporary basis, you know, with this omnibus manure, you know, whatever that might be. that we could really work with the county and some of our neighboring cities to share those resources. And I think that might be a better use of resource if we can. I would like to at least uncover that rock to make sure that we're not absorbing all the cost. on somebody alone. We don't need them full time. |
| 05:11:49.70 | Tom Riley | Mr. Clifford, this is Tom. We 100% concur with you. So we do want to pursue shared services wherever we can. It's one of our projects we listed out there. I forget if it's phase two or phase three. But Director Whalen, you may have additional ideas of shared services that you've discussed in the past. |
| 05:12:10.01 | Director Whalen | For sure, thank you for the question, Chair Feller. This is definitely something, especially, about this time last year that I was discussing with other directors in Marin County on what can we do to share the work that we have and conserve our resources so we have started those conversations specifically with building and planning departments in moran county and are continuing to have those conversations you know for anything from a you know one-stop shop for southern Marin jurisdictions for getting some building permits in one location. to having a central person answering some basic questions for different communities in Southern Marin. Those types of conversations are occurring right now. I think it's also a great idea to ask our neighbors, especially in Southern Marin, If. something like an ombudson would be beneficial to them. And maybe we can see some efficiencies there. So I think that's a good idea as well. |
| 05:13:14.78 | Unknown | Right. Okay. |
| 05:13:15.51 | Tom Riley | I was doing one last thing. |
| 05:13:15.56 | Unknown | I love you. Yeah. |
| 05:13:17.50 | Tom Riley | Also, if we can piggyback on any systems that other jurisdictions have implemented, We don't need to reinvent the technology if there's ways, because everything's in the cloud now, we might be able to share systems as well. |
| 05:13:29.73 | Kristina Feller | Karen Hollweg, I mean I love it, I think anywhere that we can find those economies. We have to take advantage of that where that's possible. Um, The other thing that we've talked about it certainly as a commission here, but Director Whelan, you and I have talked about quite some time, a couple of years at least. is sort of updating the. Municipal Code. And, you know, there were a number of recommendations that came out of the landslide task force that were you know, impacted design review. that comes to planning commission and heightened design review that comes to planning commission The over-the-counter work of course, doesn't need to come to us. unless there's some kind of an appeal, as we heard tonight. So there's a lot of really important issues there. that I really feel strongly need to be considered now. I mean, now's the time if these recommendations are being drafted. that we consider these things as well because it impacts what we're what we are telling people they need to submit that checklist, whether it's an electronic checklist or a paper checklist, I don't think we've been very good at communicating what people need to submit for certain things. PB Sarah Silver, And we talked about that, so I don't feel i'm speaking at a turn here, but. none of that seems to have been mentioned. in the recommendations and I think that know part part of that almost has to be done to be able to implement some of these great ideas and suggestions. So was that talked about with EDEM? |
| 05:15:26.86 | Tom Riley | Uh, Thank you. Lily, I will speak first and then... Um, One of the things that we learned from San Rafael is they asked their front desk folks working on the front desk to keep a log of kind of reoccurring issues or reoccurring challenges that applicants have. And on a biannual basis, they sit down and they look at those issues and they say, are there changes to the code? Or are there changes to our way we do business that we can approve and address those things and make it simpler? And so that's one thing they really encourage us to do early on because it's quite impactful for them. That's kind of the continual improvement process. So that's my thoughts, what you shared, Chair Feller, Director Whale, and you might have more. |
| 05:16:18.80 | Director Whalen | Sure, thank you, Chair Feller. And I, you know, I agree with you. There are definitely improvements that we need to make to our municipal code to eliminate you know, issues with inconsistencies and for clarity and interpretations that have been made over the last decade or so here. I definitely agree with you. That process to do that will be time consuming. to go through that process with, as it should, through the public and through the planning commission to make those changes and adjust our code appropriately for the community. I recommend that that be that that deserve its own special project track to work through those issues and bring them through in a zoning ordinance amendment forum for the planning commission. I do also have, so I have been instructing our staff after our conversation with San Rafael to start jotting those things down. And over time, I have, you know, staff has been putting some of those things in a location. And we have some other, issues that have that were identified, um, I think in 2010 or so. So we have a lot of fodder for that conversation, um, I anticipated through also the general plan update and implementation of the zoning changes that we need to make through the general plan update, which we'll be doing in the next couple of years here, that we'll be able to take on some of those issues and make those amendments to the municipal code. |
| 05:17:54.20 | Kristina Feller | Great. The more pressing is sort of the issues that trigger heightened design review that were a result of the land side task force. I mean, I know updating the municipal code is you know, sort of like, you know, reading the encyclopedia, you know, it doesn't happen quickly and you don't, you know, it takes a while. But, but there are some pretty critical issues that, I mean, these recommendations were approved two years ago and they will impact community development planning commission everybody and they're not small issues so I just want to make sure that with this initiative, Um, that we don't forget that we have to do that because that leads directly to that checklist and communicating clearly and consistently to any applicant. what they need to do and what they need to submit. So it takes the headache out of whatever that process is. I want to make sure that that is not left behind because we've been talking about it for for quite a long time. And I feel like it's kind of pressing and it comes up in so many of our hearings different issues. Um, You know, I'm happy to help recommend how to update some of these things. I'm happy to do that. The other thing, and Tom, you know this as you mentioned, when you were presenting but I have to say that enforcement is probably the number one issue above all else. of the other 34 recommendations, because it's not just enforcement of Um, you know, a contractor finishing the work or did they build it the right way or, you know, and none of those things, but, enforcement of the businesses and the conditional use permits and what we approve here or Director Whelan, what you approve over the counter The enforcement of that and also the enforcement of you know, market rate business. A lot of those businesses are vacant, not because it's just a COVID year, But, you know, landlords start to get greedy. We certainly enforce affordable housing, can't we enforce market rate? I mean, we've just had a study session on a very large development at Schoonmaker. Well... It, Thank you. that is unclear how that's going to ever be designated as market rate Maritime use unless we specifically asked for it. So is there a way that EDAC could recommend that part of this enforcement is I know businesses cry and scream and think everything's difficult, They're also not towing the line on their end too. I think they can improve. I know we can improve, but they need to tow the line too. |
| 05:21:05.65 | Tom Riley | Chair Feller, this is Tom. We hear you. Um, You know, our exercise started as what can we do to streamline the permitting process? And so that's about efficiency and speed and kind of enforcement doesn't fall in that. However, we discussed it as an EDAC and we said, Rather than conflating it with this project, let's make it a specific project that we can tackle as a committee and come back to recommendations to |
| 05:21:23.99 | Justin Anderson | Thank you. |
| 05:21:31.75 | Tom Riley | the city with So we agree with you. We've heard from the public that enforcement's a concern. There are certain industries that we don't want to get priced out of our city. and the other side of the road. There are landlords that have tenants that aren't permitted. And so we are gonna tackle that in addition to this work. and we'd love to collaborate with your commission. |
| 05:22:00.64 | Kristina Feller | That would be great. I think we will all benefit. Sausalito will totally benefit from that. So the more hands on deck, the better. in that regard. And then the other thing that you and I have talked about is You know, just the larger strategy, the business and retail strategy. When we start looking at conditional use permits, yes, we have zoning and all of that, but it would be really helpful to understand if there is some kind of a strategy it would be very helpful to us. |
| 05:22:36.21 | Tom Riley | Yes, we agree. We, I kind of left some slides out of my deck just for efficiency, but we have five working groups. One of them is retain and recruit businesses, retain our existing businesses and recruit new ones. But when you talk about recruiting, you need to have a strategy. What types of businesses are we pursuing? And one of our other working groups is called the diversification work. And how do we diversify our businesses so we're not dependent on tourism as we suffered during this past year? And how do we focus in on the maritime industries and some of the industrial businesses? And even through our retail sector, how do we bring more diversification in And we want to, we have a desire to introduce more local and regional community serving businesses less for day tourism, more for long-term visitors or our locals and regional community. which we think are gonna be higher quality type businesses. But that's an exercise we wanna undertake. We don't have that, we don't have a strategy what that means just yet, but we're working on that. |
| 05:23:43.97 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Great. And I'd say thumbs up, double thumbs up for parklets. You know, we've certainly, I've certainly been very supportive of those and it would be nice if we could keep up with every other city in town in the US and make them look you know, better. I mean, ours kind of looks like crime scene. It's just, you know, with barricades and It's just awful. And it's a missed opportunity. We've got some of the best climate and the best streets and the best community. You know, let's celebrate it. So. Anyway, that's all I had. |
| 05:24:21.61 | Unknown | with it. |
| 05:24:24.63 | Kristina Feller | Um, Director Whelan, did you? Okay. |
| 05:24:29.60 | Director Whalen | Okay. Um, Sorry, Turkel, just reminding us that we need to take public comments. |
| 05:24:35.52 | Kristina Feller | Yes, yeah, I was just gonna ask the commissioners if they have any more comments or questions. about the presentation. this time. |
| 05:24:43.72 | Justin Kolparda | Not at this time. |
| 05:24:44.77 | Kristina Feller | Okay. All right. Yes, let's go ahead and open up public comment. I see two hands already. Um, I don't think we need to explain again. Sandra, three, okay. Um, Mike Miller, um, Welcome, you have three minutes for public comment. If you could unmute. Thank you. |
| 05:25:08.41 | Mike Miller | Can you hear me? |
| 05:25:09.79 | Kristina Feller | Yes. |
| 05:25:10.77 | Mike Miller | Awesome. Hey, you know, first of all, I want to thank the board. I mean, you guys... It's nearly midnight. I know you guys work hard tirelessly for no money at all. I mean, you get some money, but it's nothing. compared to comparatively to the work that you do. I served on several boards. I serve on a board now. I know it is tough. Okay, and thank you to the staff too. As I'm hearing this, as I'm going through today, They seem very understaffed. Right? Yeah, there's just a lot of pressure. Um, I do want to confirm or have the guy who presented the information. I see a lot of zeros in the tables. for the estimate when there's hours associated with it. And I just want to make sure that that's where the omnibus person is replacing those hours that normally would have been spent. Right. Christina, most of your kind of comments have been, I agree with everything that you said there at the end there. here. Very, very, very good. Attracting new businesses to Sosolito and getting the right business mix is super important. I mean, something like this could go a long All right. |
| 05:26:35.65 | Mike Miller | did I see in the presentation that we were hiring a city employee for $65,000 That's just a question. I'm not sure if I caught that correctly. But you probably need more staff anyway, so please go hire two more people, three more people, if that's what you need. Uh, Fillmore Street. Yeah, I don't know if it's a shanty town, but it's definitely not looking that great. Ah, tttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt Sorry, I'm just looking at my notes. I'm very much behind. I did not review the documents that were posted prior to the presentation. So I'm kind of working off your comments and presentation. I do want to know if, if the person that is speaking, I know this is just an education kind of thing, right? And I think it's a great idea. by the way. I definitely think the city needs to pursue this and produce stuff like this very, very hard. Are we working with specific brokers? They are retargeting this to certain brokers that are going to go out and find the people. Right. The tenants that we want to attract to these locations. Is that part of the... I guess, system. Right. Um, I do want to know, has he ever built a system like this? Is this his first system? Because it sounds like there may be what they refer to as SAAS, Software as a Service, right? Where you can go kind of just plug and play into certain systems that probably handle this kind of stuff. |
| 05:28:26.12 | Kristina Feller | yeah yeah thank you so much Mr Miller I appreciate you hanging in with us so |
| 05:28:27.16 | Mike Miller | Yeah. |
| 05:28:32.75 | Kristina Feller | so late this evening and thank you for your attention to this and your comments as well. Thank you very, very much. Vicki Nichols. You are next and you have three minutes for public comment and welcome. |
| 05:28:46.75 | Vicki Nichols | Hi, thank you very much. I'm going to go quite quickly. I want to comment, commend EDAC for this thorough report. I would like to say that as much as I love community director called Jansen in San Rafael. I think comparing our city to him is maybe only one of the options. In Mill Valley, they support their Chamber of Commerce. They pay money. They are about 10,000 versus our 7,000. San Rafael is about 55,000. So they're not necessarily close. And we are not the only one known as tough. everyone in the county will tell you that their city is the worst known city. I work all over the county so let's you know that's a great goal but I want to talk more specifically and one thing I do want to mention quickly among the many things is I want to support Jeremy's analysis or suggestion of how to really analyze some of these projects snags. I've heard many people say, oh, I've been in planning for four years and it's because they've had incomplete applications. So it isn't always the city hanging people up. We need to make sure that what we're talking about is is really the same thing. THE THE the even consideration of lessening or weakening the Historical Preservation Committee. I, was just appointed last week I helped write the ordinances with Morgan and the city that should not even be on this list this is this comes up this review comes up infrequently We don't need three people doing it. We need the full commission that's appointed and qualified to do those reviews. Um, I agree with Chair about the CEQA inventory, that's gonna help and I'm gonna be a strong advocate for money on that. Everybody's asking for money tonight. This list alone is for three years, it's half a million dollars. And I'm gonna close with just reiterating what's in your report. City staff are highly constrained by current procedures while meeting the demand the best they can They are nonetheless under-resourced and overworked. We need to hire employees, not consultants. We need Lilly staff to be bulked up so they could work in the city, they learn our community, they get familiar with our streets, etc., etc. So I am strongly, strongly urging, and I know there's a desire by some of the council members, they don want to hire employees but this is a false economy in terms of service and service to the community so there's my I hope I got in in three minutes sorry to talk so fast thank you bye |
| 05:31:31.98 | Kristina Feller | you. Thanks, Vicki. Nope, you have 16 seconds to spare. So thank you. Sandra Bushmaker, you are next. Welcome. You have three minutes for public comment. |
| 05:31:50.05 | Sandra Bushmaker | Let's see. Good morning, everybody. I just wanted to focus in on the... uh, permit streamlining process, I feel a need I attended the EDAC meeting where all this was presented and I feel a need for specificity as to exactly what the problem is before we apply a solution. Um, and it particularly an expensive solution so i think that uh if we could get some more specificity as to what the hang-ups are so that we can present this to the city council i think that would be very important i also endorse your your notion of It's... to make the analogy, it's like, giving a treatment plan to a patient without the proper diagnosis based on the signs and symptoms. You know, we don't, we haven't identified the exact signs and symptoms to even give a diagnosis. And, and then, an appropriate treatment plan. So, and I also would like to endorse the idea of the enforcement that you were talking about. I think that's really important. And I think that does dovetail with this, uh, process that we're discussing. I think the EDAC has done a great job in pulling all this together and getting us started. on this process. So thanks a lot for letting me speak tonight and I'm sure I'll see you soon. Thank you. |
| 05:33:28.09 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Sandra. Thank you for hanging in so late. Okay. Any other Members of the public that would like to make a comment, please raise your hand now. Seeing none, I'm gonna go ahead and close public comment and ask Tom if you could come back up here. |
| 05:33:51.79 | Tom Riley | Thank you, Chair Feller. |
| 05:33:53.09 | Kristina Feller | There we go. Um... So you got some comments there from the public too. Again, this is just a work session. I hope I hope that was helpful. and I'd like to just ask the commissioners one more time if you have any other additional questions or comments for Tom and EDAC. No. Okay. So hopefully you've got enough to go on there to help prepare a final presentation or recommendation |
| 05:34:27.88 | Tom Riley | Yes, Chair Feller and Commissioners, one, thank you for your time tonight. And I'm sorry we went so late, but this is invaluable. I've got 10 items I captured here. from the public in your comments. which is all very valuable and consistent with feedback we've heard. from enforcement to parklets to the strategy. So we will take that. I do wanna take a moment to thank EDAC has 12 spots. We're currently at eight members. The eight have been working very hard. I wanna thank them for their great work. Our subcommittee that's been working very hard on this specific project. And I wanna thank Director Whalen and her staff. As Sandra Bushmaker said, they are understaffed and overworked. Um, I think that might have been Vicki, I forget who said that, but it is so true. And yet they've come to this project with open minds, open ears, not defensive at all, and willing to engage and work with us. And we do need to get them more staff, The staff that we're recommending is to focus on driving these projects, not to do their everyday jobs. So we have a separate project for Lily to determine what staff she needs to get their everyday jobs done. we're recommending staff to help drive change while we're doing the everyday job. So thank you, Planning Commission. Thank you for your hard volunteering. I've learned a lot just observing your meeting tonight. Thank you. |
| 05:35:55.48 | Kristina Feller | and I think that's a great question. the rest of the EDAC team and We'll look forward to hearing this at City Council and how you roll it out and we're We are here to help. So thank you so much. Okay, Director Whelan, I think that might close out the agenda. Um... And then we're onto communications. |
| 05:36:22.51 | Director Whalen | That brings us to item number six communications, I just had two things for you, I wanted to note that I did attach the Community development department quarterly report that went to the Council to your agenda here so you could take a look at that. Happy to answer any questions about that report that you may have. And then I also wanted to mention that unfortunately, we will be losing our dear Commissioner Pierce in June of this year, his term is over. and the municipal code says he cannot stay on. So the city council has appointed his replacement who will be Andrew, Junius and we will be meeting Andrew in in spring of this year so we'll we'll have a an appropriate send off for Commissioner Pierce during that time but we still have him for a few months now I wanted to make those announcements thank you |
| 05:37:04.06 | Sandra Bushmaker | Thank you. |
| 05:37:13.06 | Morgan Pierce | during the night. |
| 05:37:19.40 | Kristina Feller | I don't think anyone's happier than Morgan to hear that. Although this is why we have to change the municipal code. We have to keep Morgan on. |
| 05:37:26.22 | Nastassya Saad | I'll second that. |
| 05:37:28.70 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, exactly. Well, Andrew's wonderful. He's a land use attorney and really solid. Good. All right. Does anybody else have any additional items or communications? this evening. No? Okay. Well, I will, uh, Motion to adjourn. All those in favor. |
| 05:37:56.17 | Unknown | Bye. Bye. Thank you. |
| 05:37:57.38 | Kristina Feller | Hi. |
| 05:37:57.40 | Unknown | Thank you. Bye. Thank you. Thank you. |
| 05:37:58.62 | Kristina Feller | Right. Thank you so much, Lily. Thank you. Thank you everyone. Thank you. And the public too. |
| 05:38:01.37 | Unknown | Thank you, everyone. |
| 05:38:01.97 | Director Whalen | um, Thank you. And the public too. |
| 05:38:04.78 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 05:38:04.96 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 05:38:05.20 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 05:38:05.22 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 05:38:05.64 | Kristina Feller | Bye-bye. |
| 05:38:06.31 | Director Whalen | Bye. |
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