| Time | Speaker | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:04.45 | Nina | . Well, ready. |
| 00:00:13.31 | Tricia Smith | Chair Fuller, we may start the meeting. Let me let everything in. Did we bring in the public? |
| 00:00:20.18 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, we can bring them in now. There we go. |
| 00:00:32.82 | Kristina Feller | There you go. you Maria, just checking with you. Is everybody in from the waiting room? |
| 00:00:40.85 | Maria | Yes, Chair Federer. |
| 00:00:43.18 | Kristina Feller | Terrific. Great. Well, thank you very much. staff and Zoom team. Good evening and welcome to the regular planning commission meeting for Wednesday, May 5th. and happy Cinco de Mayo to- |
| 00:01:00.01 | Richard Graef | to be. |
| 00:01:01.30 | Kristina Feller | might be celebrating that. Appreciate everyone being here tonight. Community Development Director Whalen, could you kindly call the roll? |
| 00:01:10.64 | Director Whalen | Good evening, Chair Feller and Planning Commissioners. Happy Cinco de Mayo. This meeting is being held pursuant to section three of executive order N-2920 issued by Governor Newsom on March 17th, 2020. And all members are joining this meeting telephonically through Zoom and I will now call the roll. Commissioner Saad? Yes, here. Commissioner Luxenberg. |
| 00:01:31.53 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 00:01:32.54 | Director Whalen | Commissioner Pierce? |
| 00:01:33.75 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 00:01:33.87 | Director Whalen | THE END OF |
| 00:01:33.96 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 00:01:34.34 | Director Whalen | I share graph |
| 00:01:35.49 | Jeffery Luxenberg | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 00:01:35.68 | Director Whalen | Thank you. And Chair Feller. HERE. All members are present and we have a quorum. |
| 00:01:40.69 | Kristina Feller | Excellent, thank you very much. The next item on the agenda is actually the approval of the agenda this evening. Do I have a motion to approve? I'll make the motion. |
| 00:01:53.47 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Second? Second. |
| 00:01:56.27 | Kristina Feller | Commissioner. |
| 00:01:56.97 | Director Whalen | Luxembourg? |
| 00:01:58.90 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yes. |
| 00:01:59.81 | Director Whalen | Commissioner Saad? Yeah. Commissioner Pierce. |
| 00:02:02.80 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 00:02:02.81 | Richard Graef | Yes. |
| 00:02:03.29 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 00:02:03.39 | Director Whalen | They share graphs. |
| 00:02:04.37 | Richard Graef | Yeah. |
| 00:02:04.69 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 00:02:04.94 | Director Whalen | And cheer color. Yes. |
| 00:02:06.41 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 00:02:06.59 | Director Whalen | That carries five seconds. |
| 00:02:07.39 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 00:02:07.44 | Director Whalen | Yeah. Thank you. |
| 00:02:08.75 | Kristina Feller | Great, thank you very much. The next item on our agenda this evening are public comments for any items not on the agenda this evening. So at this time the public is welcome to speak or present any issues. And I will ask Director Whalen to please advise the public how they can raise their hand to be called upon for public comment. |
| 00:02:34.24 | Director Whalen | Thank you, Chair Feller. This is the time to hear from citizens regarding matters that are not on the commission's agenda, except in very limited circumstances. state law precludes the Planning Commission from taking action on or engaging in discussions concerning items of business not on the agenda. However, the commission may refer matters not on the agenda to city staff, direct that the subject the agenda is for a future meeting So we'll accept video or audio public participation now. It's limited to three minutes per speaker. If you'd like to make a comment, please raise your hand in the Zoom application under the participants list. and you'll be called upon when it's your time to speak. To raise your hand from a phone, please press star 9. who will allow you you to unmute yourself and share your video. and we'll need a little bit of time to adjust your settings to allow you to do that. So please thank you for your patience and please state your name for the record before beginning your comments. |
| 00:03:23.14 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Thank you, Director Whalen. So I'm just looking for raised hands in our audience this evening. At this time, I see none. If you could just confirm that for me. Director Whelan. |
| 00:03:41.14 | Director Whalen | I do not see any raised hands. Okay. |
| 00:03:43.56 | Kristina Feller | Let's go ahead and close public comment at this time. All right. Let's move right along here. The next item on our agenda is actually the approval of the draft minutes and this evening we actually have five separate meeting minutes to approve. I'm gonna go through them one at a time. And if you have any comments, on them, if you could just please let me know, that would be great. The first one is the January 6, 2021 meeting. Are there any... comments, edits, Yes, Commissioner Pearce. |
| 00:04:24.43 | Morgan Pierce | Yes, thank you Chair Feller. On page two, line 32, I'm not sure. references commissioner pierced with a D on the end, the past tense, and if they would remove the D, |
| 00:04:38.57 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Any other comments on the January 6th meeting minutes? |
| 00:04:45.66 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Just a note that they were approved on January 17th. I'm... according, I believe. So maybe I'm wrong. But we can, since they need to be amended, maybe it doesn't matter, but I And really one of the minutes, or maybe it was February 17th, One of the minutes says that those were approved. I think it was February 17th. I think it's February 17th. |
| 00:05:13.74 | Kristina Feller | I think it's February 17th. So and we'll definitely want to take comment on comments on those so any other comments on January 6th at this time other than Commissioner Pierce? Okay, do I have a motion to... You know what, actually let's go ahead and take comments on all of them, then we'll approve them all with comment. So I retract that last statement. Let's move on to the January 20th, 2021. Meeting minutes. Does anyone have any comments? on these meeting minutes as they stand. |
| 00:05:51.93 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I just want to thank Lily and her staff for adding the the links that give the final language, that's very helpful. And so I appreciate you modifying those minutes as we requested. And that's very helpful. Thank you very much. |
| 00:06:08.21 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Commissioner Lexenberg for mentioning that. I agree with you. Anybody else have any comments? Okay, let's move right along to February 17th, 2021. Are there any comments or edits? on these meeting notes. |
| 00:06:28.51 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I have one on page three, line 48. This is accurate, but I think it should be corrected. It says streaming. It meant string lining, I believe, but it said streaming, so you got the idea that It was some video thing, so I think we should correct it to say streamline it. It did say streaming in the original, but I think it should be corrected because that's what it was intended to be. That's what we're discussing. Yeah. |
| 00:06:59.66 | Kristina Feller | Any objection from any other commissioner on this particular comment? Okay. No. Thank you Commissioner Luxembourg any other comments on on the February 17th. |
| 00:07:11.49 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 00:07:11.52 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 00:07:11.54 | Christy Usher | Thank you. |
| 00:07:11.71 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 00:07:11.74 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 00:07:13.75 | Kristina Feller | Okay? All right, let's move right along to February 24th, 2021. Are there any comments from anybody on these meeting notes? |
| 00:07:23.73 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I do have some on this one. On page two, line 28, I want to replace the word and with representing the So this was a reference to meeting with the architect and it says and applicant. It was the architect representing the applicant. So that's on loan 28. Um... On line 29, it says the word butters. It means it should be a-butters, A-B-U-T-T-E-R-S, rather than capital B-U-T-T-E-R-S. Line 31, same thing, should be a Butters, not Butters. And then line 33, there are two references to Lot 3, the first of which should be lot five, not lot three, and the second one should be lot four, not three, lot three. So it should be traversed lot four to lot five, but did not meet with the owner of lot four. That's what it should, that's what I said, and that's what it needs to be corrected to say. Larry, do I need to repeat that or did you get all those? |
| 00:08:38.23 | Larry Demeterra | Larry Demeterra, |
| 00:08:43.46 | Kristina Feller | She's got it. She's got it. Any comments or objection from any other commissioner on these particular edits? Yeah. No. |
| 00:08:54.41 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 00:08:54.43 | Maria | Yeah. |
| 00:08:54.55 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 00:08:54.97 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Thank you again, Commissioner Luxenberg, for your detail on this. Thank you for that. Okay, moving then along to March 3rd, 2021. Are there any comments or edits from any commissioner on these notes? |
| 00:09:11.81 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I just have one on that one on page two, line 11. The criteria for commissioners is 500 feet And I might have said 25 feet, I don't remember what I said, but it should be 500 feet, that's what the statute requires. So I wanna amend that to the 25 feet should be the 500 as defined by statute. |
| 00:09:36.45 | Kristina Feller | Director Whelan, Do you have that, identified there. |
| 00:09:44.83 | Director Whalen | I took down the notes there from commissioner Luxembourg. I haven't managed to get back to the minutes to track that line, but I have notes. that reflect what. Yeah. |
| 00:09:58.01 | Kristina Feller | All right, thank you. I have one. comment on Page two, line 26. Building name is spelled incorrectly, the Langston building. We could just correct that spelling. Any other comments from any other commissioners or any objections? amendment to any Recommended amendments. Nope. that. Okay, so that is. Those are the five meeting minutes that we needed to approve this evening. Director Whalen, I just wanna make sure that you have the edits that were discussed here on each of those. |
| 00:10:40.08 | Director Whalen | you |
| 00:10:40.13 | Kristina Feller | We do. |
| 00:10:40.17 | Director Whalen | Thank you. Thank you. I can and chair Feller if the commission's more comfortable I could make the edits and then bring them back at your next meeting for approval or you could give direction to make the edits for finals. |
| 00:10:54.39 | Kristina Feller | I think I'll ask for a motion to approve and give the direction to make those edits. So may I ask the commission if there's a motion to approve all five as, edited and commented on this evening. |
| 00:11:11.18 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I'll make a motion to approve those five meeting minutes as amended and direct the meeting. |
| 00:11:15.40 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:11:15.59 | Kristina Feller | AMENDMENT. |
| 00:11:18.42 | Jeffery Luxenberg | the community development director to make the edits and for the chair to sign. does not need to come back to us again. |
| 00:11:26.44 | Kristina Feller | Do I have a second? |
| 00:11:27.40 | Jeffery Luxenberg | second. |
| 00:11:28.80 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Director Whalen, could you call the roll? |
| 00:11:34.34 | Director Whalen | Commissioner Luxembourg. Thank you. |
| 00:11:36.99 | Richard Graef | Yes. |
| 00:11:37.68 | Director Whalen | Commissioner Saad. Yeah. Commissioner Pierce? |
| 00:11:41.00 | Morgan Pierce | Yes. |
| 00:11:41.63 | Director Whalen | based on a graphic. |
| 00:11:42.81 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. |
| 00:11:43.43 | Director Whalen | care fellow. Thank you. |
| 00:11:44.24 | Kristina Feller | Yes. |
| 00:11:44.97 | Director Whalen | CARES 5-0. |
| 00:11:46.03 | Kristina Feller | you |
| 00:11:47.20 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 00:11:47.21 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 00:11:50.69 | Kristina Feller | Okay, so I think at this point, we're moving into our public hearing. Director Whelan, do you want to call our first item in the public hearing this evening? |
| 00:11:59.70 | Director Whalen | Yes, thank you. And before we begin our public hearing items, this is the time for any commissioners to provide any declarations regarding ex parte communications. Thank you. |
| 00:12:10.65 | Kristina Feller | to be. Commissioner Pierce. |
| 00:12:12.69 | Morgan Pierce | Yes, I met with the applicant for 2 to 8 Princess, who gave me a tour of the site. and explained the specifics of it, but I did not offer any information opinions on the merits of the project. |
| 00:12:25.74 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Commissioner Saad. Thank you. |
| 00:12:29.53 | Nastassya Saad | I visited both locations on my own and I did not meet or have any correspondence with anyone on either project. |
| 00:12:36.12 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Commissioner Luxenberg. |
| 00:12:39.36 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I also went to both sites, 3739 Crescent and Tudor, a present Princess Street. But I did not meet with anybody when I did those |
| 00:12:54.97 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Vice Chair Graff. |
| 00:12:58.12 | Richard Graef | No ex parte communication. |
| 00:13:01.53 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. I also did visit both locations. I did meet with the applicant yesterday who was able to show me into the back area and discuss the project. I did not partake in any, discussions with him though on the merit of his application. And that's all I have to. It disclosed. |
| 00:13:30.82 | Director Whalen | Thank you, commissioners. Moving on to our first public hearing item tonight, it's 5A, which is a request for a condominium conversion permit, design review permit, and recommendation for an encouragement agreement with a duplex at 3739 Crescent. |
| 00:13:41.44 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:13:44.76 | Director Whalen | And we have senior planner Christy Usher, who will be giving the presentation this evening. So welcome, Christy. |
| 00:13:51.87 | Christy Usher | Thank you. Good evening, Chair Feller and Planning Commissioners. for your consideration tonight is a tentative map condo conversion permit, encroachment agreement, and design review permit. located at 3739 Crescent Avenue. So our project height is approximately 8,000 square feet. and contains an existing multi-story duplex that is approximately 7 000 square feet which with each of the two units being a little over 3 000 square feet each The zoning is two family, um, to family residences. The applicant is proposing a tentative map and condo conversion permit. to convert this existing duplex shown into two family condominium units for sale purposes. The applicant is also requesting an encroachment agreement and design review permit for an existing retaining wall that's constructed in an unnamed public right of way. the Public Works Department, Staff has indicated that the city has no interest in this unnamed right of way. and they do not have any projects to expand public facilities in this area either. So the structure is not in conflict with any future improvements in the right of way. The wall is approximately two feet, encroaches approximately two feet in the right of way and is approximately 13 feet tall. It's also a light gray concrete as shown here. |
| 00:15:40.79 | Christy Usher | In terms of background, entitlements were originally filed in 2002 to build the duplex. on the project was approved by the planning commission and appealed to the council. the council upheld the PC approval Um, but the title men's entitlements did expire. In 2008, entitlements were refiled. and approved in 2009, followed by construction, as seen in the photos earlier in the presentation. And then in 2000, 18, the applicant filed the the condominium conversion permit and tentative map entitlements. Um, And then more recently, um, an encroachment agreement and design review entitlements were added to those, um, when in reviewing the. kind of conversion and permit and the tenant map improvements it was um learned that the retaining wall was in the right of way so the subsequent um the subsequent entitlements were then filed. In terms of zoning compliance, the project as built complies with all the zoning standards for two family dwellings. The existing rotina wall that's in the right of way will be in compliance with an encroachment agreement and design review permit. The city code also requires that Not more than 5% of rental stock may be converted in one year. to four sale units, and that would be 115 units. This project is the first of 2021 and proposes two units. The general plan policies focus primarily on preserving rental stock as it relates to these entitlements. The units were constructed as market rates, so there's no loss to affordable units. And the units have been vacant since construction was complete. Let's see, so... so the project is not displacing any existing tenants. |
| 00:18:06.29 | Christy Usher | Staff has not received any public comments, any written public comments on this item. And with that, I'll move to the staff recommendation, which is that the Planning Commission approve the tentative map, Condo conversion, which would establish two for sale residential units and the design review permit for the existing retaining wall located in that unnamed right of way. and recommend that the city council approve the encroachment agreement to legalize that existing retaining wall. That concludes the summary of the staff report. I'm of course happy to answer any questions that you have The applicant team, including engineers, et cetera, are also available for questions tonight. Thank you. |
| 00:18:52.56 | Kristina Feller | Thank you so much for the time you've taken to put your staff report together and provide us all the materials that we need here on the commission to to hear this tonight, so thank you very much for that. Let's go ahead and stop. Screen share. And let me ask the commissioners if they have any questions for staff at this time. Um, Yes, Vice Chair Graf. |
| 00:19:22.35 | Richard Graef | I was just curious about the encroachment why that was not at the time of construction or prior to the construction structure. And why is it coming to us now? |
| 00:19:38.62 | Christy Usher | Yeah. Quite honestly, I think it was an oversight that it, that because the, the encroachments into Crescent Ave were processed. So I think it was simply an oversight and then In reviewing the tentative map application, Public Works noticed that piece that was in the unnamed right-of-way. So I think it just honestly got overlooked originally, but got caught as they reviewed the tentative map. |
| 00:20:08.25 | Richard Graef | Okay, thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:20:10.07 | Kristina Feller | Christy, I also noticed that Public Works is here in the audience. Do you know if there's anything that Public Works would like to comment on in this regard, other than what you have said? Presented. |
| 00:20:23.89 | Christy Usher | No, they're here for any further questions that I can't answer. I did relay their information, the information they provided. So we can call on them if there's anything else. |
| 00:20:36.31 | Kristina Feller | you Thank you. |
| 00:20:36.58 | Christy Usher | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:20:37.81 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Thank you very much. Okay, Commissioner Saad, do you have any questions for staff at this time? |
| 00:20:44.24 | Nastassya Saad | time. That was actually my question. I emailed Christy earlier and she settled me. So thank you. I don't have any further questions. |
| 00:20:51.01 | Kristina Feller | Okay, great. Commissioner Luxenberg. |
| 00:20:54.64 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yes, just a couple quick questions. The first is, do you know if this was always, Christy, whether this was always intended to be condominiumized from the start? And if so, why didn't they do that in the beginning? Yes. |
| 00:21:09.08 | Christy Usher | Yeah, that's a great question. The applicant, um, can speak to that. I don't know why it wasn't processed originally. I think it was again, an oversight on the applicant's behalf. I think if they, I think they didn't understand they needed this, but I hate to take the liberty to draw that conclusion, but um i i don't think they ever intended to rent them so i think they didn't didn't know that this was required to make them for sale Thanks. you |
| 00:21:40.05 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 00:21:40.25 | Christy Usher | We can have them confirm that. |
| 00:21:40.99 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Amen. I have a note in the proposed resolution number two, there's a reference to the Thank you. for the existing retaining wall in an, shouldn't it be an unnamed right of way rather than in Crescent Avenue? So the draft that you have has the wrong language there. |
| 00:22:03.05 | Christy Usher | Yes. Ah, okay. That is a typo. |
| 00:22:09.68 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Okay. |
| 00:22:10.40 | Christy Usher | I do, I do. |
| 00:22:10.61 | Jeffery Luxenberg | And then... Thank you. I mean, this is probably also for the applicant. The buildings were completed in 2018, so why did it take until 2000, not for this application, but why did it take to 2020 to get a certificate of Hopkins? work. |
| 00:22:28.60 | Christy Usher | Yeah, I think the applicant could elaborate on that. And I apologize. I haven't been here for the history of this project. So I have lots of gaps of information on some of these details. |
| 00:22:41.44 | Jeffery Luxenberg | And my last question may be for the city engineer. How wide is this unnamed right of way? |
| 00:22:47.16 | Richard Graef | you |
| 00:22:47.46 | Jeffery Luxenberg | uh, through, through, Do we know that? |
| 00:22:53.13 | Kristina Feller | Could we ask that the Public Works comment on that? I'm not sure who's here from Public Works, |
| 00:23:04.54 | Christy Usher | Thanks, Kevin. Go ahead. I see you there. Thank you. |
| 00:23:06.85 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 00:23:06.90 | Kevin McGowan | Thank you. Hi, this is Kevin McGowan, Department of Public Works. Good evening, commissioners. Nice to see everybody. The actual right-of-way, I haven't measured it specifically, but it splits properties. And just as guesstimate, it looks like it's about 10 feet wide. |
| 00:23:25.21 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Is it possible that it could ever be a stairway to connect Sausalito Boulevard? Not that you're gonna propose this in the next 10 years, but is it possible that could eventually be a stairway? |
| 00:23:36.27 | Kevin McGowan | Anything's possible, Commissioner, but at this point in time, the city has never exercised any rights to actually put any infrastructure on that piece of right of work. |
| 00:23:45.83 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Okay. Thank you very much. That's helpful. |
| 00:23:50.39 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Kevin. Um... |
| 00:23:53.09 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Those are the questions I have, Chair Feller. If the applicant can answer the ones that were more appropriate for the applicant, that would be good. |
| 00:24:02.40 | Kristina Feller | absolutely thank you for your questions and and the detail attention to detail Let me ask Commissioner Pierce, if you have any questions for staff at this time. |
| 00:24:12.82 | Morgan Pierce | Yes, thank you, Chair Feltler. And thank you, Christy, for the presentation. Do we know what type of unit or units this project originally replaced, whether it was single family or multi-family? |
| 00:24:22.15 | Christy Usher | I believe there was a vacant property |
| 00:24:24.60 | Morgan Pierce | Okay. Thank you. The staff report on page two identifies a shadow study that was to be included with our packet. but I was unable to locate it. in there or not in there? |
| 00:24:37.51 | Christy Usher | That was not in there. I see. That was not in there. |
| 00:24:41.57 | Morgan Pierce | I imagine that was already considered in the prior application, but I just, thought I'd want to make sure that we weren't missing something. On page two of attachment to the tentative condominium map, the unit at 39 Crescent is identified as having four levels, which is the same as 37 Crescent, but it only has three levels. We need to have them correct that so they don't inadvertently add a fourth level down the road without our approval. |
| 00:25:10.19 | Christy Usher | Absolutely, we can get that corrected. Yeah. |
| 00:25:13.84 | Morgan Pierce | Great. And then my final question, this pertains to other questions regarding encroachment. Do building permit documents include any language requiring applicants to maintain property boundary representation during construction |
| 00:25:29.92 | Christy Usher | I don't believe so. Lily, thanks for... |
| 00:25:34.81 | Director Whalen | Yeah, it's an interesting question, Commissioner Pierce. And I am trying to search my brain to see if the Planning Commission has included Conditions of approval, that would be the appropriate vehicle for requiring that is a condition of approval that would require the staking during construction. And I don't think that that, has it's definitely not been a standard condition of approval. I don't think that we've applied it to any projects, but you know, if there's a, a concern like this project might demonstrate, then we could consider having that be something standard for a new construction in the future. |
| 00:26:12.12 | Morgan Pierce | Great. Thank you. Those are all the questions I have, Chair Feller. |
| 00:26:13.39 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 00:26:13.42 | Kristina Feller | I have |
| 00:26:13.86 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 00:26:14.84 | Kristina Feller | Great questions. Thank you. Thank you very much. I'm not sure. Christy, I just wanted to go back to just for the purpose of the record here, just to be absolutely clear. Um, when when the, is this the same owner that originally applied for permits back in 2002. |
| 00:26:37.27 | Christy Usher | I don't know for certain. |
| 00:26:40.91 | Kristina Feller | Okay. And, and the, the appeal. on this particular property back historically. was by a neighbor. |
| 00:26:49.30 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:26:49.35 | Richard Graef | Bye. |
| 00:26:49.37 | Unknown | Bye. |
| 00:26:49.45 | Richard Graef | Bye. |
| 00:26:49.48 | Unknown | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 00:26:52.08 | Kristina Feller | And Is that neighbor still? a neighbor and and or I notice you've mentioned that we didn't get any comments. Could you just maybe speak a little bit to the outreach and just sort of the due diligence that the city has done on this matter? |
| 00:27:11.93 | Christy Usher | Yeah, sure. I did get a phone call from someone. I don't know who that was, but I, but I explained to her, it was to allow the units to be for sale and she said they always assumed they would be for sale. So she didn't have any. any concern. She wanted to be sure there were no new retaining walls and I was explained it was an existing retaining wall. And that was, that was where my, my conversation with her. I don't know if that was the person that appealed. I don't know. |
| 00:27:41.75 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 00:27:45.29 | Director Whalen | I could add to that also the appeal for this site. |
| 00:27:49.26 | Richard Graef | site. Thank you. |
| 00:27:50.10 | Director Whalen | Um, |
| 00:27:50.12 | Richard Graef | I'm not sure. |
| 00:27:51.41 | Director Whalen | The project that was built is not the project that was appealed. There was a project that was appealed. and then the building permits expired and then the applicant reapplied for permits. So if that helps the commission with that question. |
| 00:28:07.36 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, I just want to be clear from a chronological standpoint for the rec, for purposes of the record, because I know there's a bit of history here. And then I also just wanted to ask a little bit about the parking. |
| 00:28:15.41 | Maria | dominant. |
| 00:28:15.85 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:28:20.68 | Kristina Feller | and just confirm from you, Christy, that that the parking requirements for these units is satisfied with the current design. |
| 00:28:31.31 | Christy Usher | Yeah, thank you for raising that compliance issue. They are indeed. So there are two side-by-side two car garages for each unit and two spaces in a garage are required. So it does meet the parking requirements. |
| 00:28:48.55 | Kristina Feller | Okay. And as you know, there was a landslide task force that was, pulled together a couple of years ago regarding extreme sloped areas within the boundaries of Sausalito. |
| 00:29:05.87 | Unknown | of social media. |
| 00:29:07.56 | Kristina Feller | and i just wanted to understand what is uphill and where that boundary really falls on this particular property and that any kind of necessary retaining walls within the property are satisfied based on whatever was permitted at the time. |
| 00:29:29.04 | Christy Usher | Yeah, well, my response to that would be certainly the applicant submitted geotechnical reports and the city, you know, completed all of its inspections and issued occupancy too. So to the extent that addresses that, um, I don't have anything further to offer. I don't know if the applicant would like to specify anything further. |
| 00:29:50.99 | Maria | anything. Thank you. |
| 00:29:54.08 | Kristina Feller | Tell me one more time when the certificate of occupancy was issued. |
| 00:29:57.45 | Maria | Thank you. |
| 00:29:57.47 | Christy Usher | in 2020. |
| 00:29:59.08 | Kristina Feller | Okay. All right. Great. I don't have any further questions. Let me just double back real quick with the rest of the commissioners to see if there's any. further comments at this time for staff. If not, we will ask the applicant to prepare to provide their presentation. |
| 00:30:20.59 | Morgan Pierce | Mr. Chair, I do have one more question. And this actually pertains to the CC&Rs. |
| 00:30:24.18 | Kristina Feller | Mm-hmm. |
| 00:30:24.64 | Morgan Pierce | And I'm curious, I can see where a lot of language seems to pertain to when this might have been a rental unit as it was originally constructed, you know, as a duplex. But some of them seem rather burdensome with specific regards to types of pets and some of the sound things. And I'm just curious, you know, there is a disclaimer on the front regarding... The document cannot contain any restrictions based on genetic information or ancestry. Does that apply to canine breeds? |
| 00:30:57.06 | Christy Usher | I know that applicant's attorney who prepared those is here. Do you mind if we ask them to comment on the. Thank you. |
| 00:31:00.94 | Morgan Pierce | Yeah. That'll be fun. Thank you. |
| 00:31:06.24 | Morgan Pierce | That is all I have for staff. |
| 00:31:08.43 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Thank you. Let's go ahead and ask the applicant team to come up and make their presentation. and you'll have 15 minutes to make your presentation. You can divide that among however many members of your team you would like to present to us and you're also welcome to reserve any time for any further comment, closing, whatever it might be. Should we ask you any questions that does not count against your time? So don't worry, we will stop the clock to engage with you in that way. Um, Uh, Very good. So, um, Mr. you first. Are you going to be presenting for the applicant team today? |
| 00:31:57.32 | Larry Demeterra | Yes, I will. And I can answer any of the questions that you had previously, if you'd like. It was a virginal lot. There's never been anything that was built on it prior to the permit being obtained or ever. Um, It was a paper streak. that's... is approximately 10 to 11 feet across. as Director McGowan pointed out. And When I came along was in 2013. I took out the permits for Don Olson. It was brought up, were these same owners started out in 2002? Yes, they were. I wasn't around then. for this project. but I can answer any questions after 2013 when we took the original project, which was two permits. One was for excavation, one was for building, The permits ended in 251 and 252. and they were joined into permit 252 for excavation retaining wall and building. So it was all bunched into one. it. It's. no time was I aware of any permit for condominiums and I think that's a good question. actually being proposed or being needed to be proposed. I'm not sure. I was asked by Don Olson, who's no longer with us, help in obtaining the permits and look after the building project and help the LLC that was building. And I did that. And so I stayed. aware of every aspect of the building project and the permits. And, THE The part of the retaining wall that's coming down, if we looked at it from the aerial view again, it curves into the of Paper Street in Commissioner Luxenberg was correct in THE FAMILY. Mentioning that perhaps it was the wrong nomenclature for it as far as the street. Can I answer any questions? |
| 00:34:26.59 | Kristina Feller | Let's just stop the clock here for just a moment. Zoom team, thank you. Um, So I've got 12 minutes and 51 seconds left on the clock here. Um, Commissioners, if you'd like to ask any questions of the applicant, let's go ahead and and do that now and then allow the applicant any final closing comments should they like to use the time Anybody have any questions for the applicant? Mr. Saad. |
| 00:35:00.24 | Nastassya Saad | I think I was... I'm quite interested in, Commissioner, Luxembourg School. questions, so I don't have anything further, but I'd be interested to hear those answers. |
| 00:35:12.12 | Kristina Feller | Okay, Commissioner Luxenberg, let's go through some of those questions again so the applicant can answer your questions. |
| 00:35:19.85 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I think he indicated he wasn't there at the beginning, so he said he doesn't believe it was He doesn't know what was intended at the beginning, but that's always my first question. I think he answered the question about Oh, why is it remaining vacant from 2018 to 2020? |
| 00:35:39.26 | Unknown | Oh, do you? |
| 00:35:45.77 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Uh... the It was finished in 2018, and then it got a CNO in 2020, what took two years to get of all and I'm assuming that it's been vacant since 2020 so you could do this condominium, What happened between 2018 and 2020? |
| 00:36:08.49 | Larry Demeterra | I'm sorry. As far as what happened in the neighborhood, the house from Sausalito Boulevard slid down the hill. It was one and a half addresses above us. It stopped us from meeting our COAs. We had to repave the road, which we have done. We also had to put the pervious driveway in, which we were unable to get the trucks in there until after We were given the right of way. And paperwork. We didn't want it to stay vacant that long, but I wouldn't think so. The last two years has been very tenuous. |
| 00:36:45.36 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I hope so. |
| 00:36:51.84 | Kristina Feller | So just a follow-on question to Commissioner Luxenberg. |
| 00:36:51.94 | Larry Demeterra | Just a one-for-one question. |
| 00:36:56.66 | Kristina Feller | your, this property did not. experience any residual damages or or anything from that incident that you referred to with the mudslide, is that correct? |
| 00:37:11.85 | Larry Demeterra | No, we didn't incur any damages, but we were stopped from using the access of the upper street, which had better truck access for doing what we were required to do. |
| 00:37:24.42 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 00:37:25.25 | Larry Demeterra | Mm-hmm. |
| 00:37:26.97 | Kristina Feller | Commissioner Luxenberg, did you have any other unanswered questions? |
| 00:37:31.85 | Jeffery Luxenberg | No, I mean, the only one is if somebody knew whether this was always intended to be condominiums from the start. But other than that, I don't have any other questions. |
| 00:37:42.04 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Thank you. Commissioner Saad, does that help? that. Thank you. |
| 00:37:47.41 | Nastassya Saad | That does help. And I don't know actually if this is actually, now that I think about it, question more for staff, but I was just wondering, are there any more inspections that need |
| 00:37:47.51 | Kristina Feller | that you have. |
| 00:37:56.77 | Nastassya Saad | to happen if we were to approve tonight or is Is an approval tonight just the applicant gets to move forward with the I just don't know if there's, because that was a good question about the mud slide. Good to know there was no damage, but would there be any further inspections? |
| 00:38:13.83 | Larry Demeterra | of. If you're asking the question of me, No, we fulfilled everything we needed to do through building, public works, and fire department. |
| 00:38:27.57 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Christy, from the planning department standpoint, can you also comment on that? |
| 00:38:34.45 | Christy Usher | Yeah, likewise staff does not anticipate any onsite inspections that would need. |
| 00:38:38.42 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 00:38:38.54 | Nina | MEETING. point. You're on screen. |
| 00:38:43.03 | Kristina Feller | It was. |
| 00:38:43.68 | Barbara Herzig | Thank you. |
| 00:38:44.28 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Barbara's iPad, can we mute your Yes. Thank you. Thank you very much. Commissioner Pierce, did you have any questions for the applicant? |
| 00:38:58.20 | Morgan Pierce | I'm just curious, and this is, maybe this is not germane to the decision, but I am curious relative to the language and the CCNRs seem... you know, like I said, more burdensome to a property owner versus a renter, but I am not familiar with typical CC&Rs for condominiums so maybe the applicant would like to offer there. opinions on that, specifically the sections on animals and sound transmission. |
| 00:39:25.33 | Kristina Feller | Right. Mr. Puford, would you like to comment on that? |
| 00:39:30.02 | Larry Demeterra | Um, It would be better for Barbara Herzig if she's here. |
| 00:39:35.53 | Kristina Feller | Oh, yes, Barbara. Let's unmute you now then. |
| 00:39:38.75 | Larry Demeterra | Thank you. |
| 00:39:39.05 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 00:39:39.52 | Larry Demeterra | Mm-hmm. |
| 00:39:40.10 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 00:39:42.82 | Kristina Feller | The Zoom team, can we unmute Barbara's iPad? |
| 00:39:45.58 | Barbara Herzig | Here. Is that good? Yeah. I, I, you know, the, The PET provision is fairly standard in virtually all CCNRs. I've had to go back and look at the of the sound transmission That might have been an oversight on my part since these are essentially these buildings are separated. I don't think if it's a floor covering matter you're talking about, then probably that doesn't need to be in there. um, But it's very common for Um, for CC&Rs to have use restrictions. in them. |
| 00:40:29.83 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you very much. |
| 00:40:30.96 | Barbara Herzig | Yeah. Thank you. |
| 00:40:33.05 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Thank you. All right, Commissioner Pierce, any further questions? |
| 00:40:41.34 | Morgan Pierce | I have done. |
| 00:40:44.17 | Kristina Feller | Hey. Vice for Graff. |
| 00:40:47.97 | Richard Graef | No further questions. |
| 00:40:50.21 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Um, I do not have any questions at this time. So let's go ahead at this time and open this up for public comment. Mr. Puffert you still have your time available that if you can use that after we take public comment. So we're, So we're gonna go ahead and put probably put you back on mute and then director Whalen can we open this up for public comment if you could please identify how to do so for the public |
| 00:41:25.40 | Director Whalen | Now is the time for public participation and comment. Video or audio public participation is limited to three minutes per speaker. If you'd like to make a comment, please raise your hand in the Zoom application and you'll be called upon when it's your time to speak To raise your hand from a phone, you can press star nine. Each week will be notified when the time has elapsed. And we will again allow you to unmute yourself and share your video, so please |
| 00:41:44.36 | Richard Graef | and then. |
| 00:41:48.75 | Director Whalen | Give us a few seconds to do that. Thank you. |
| 00:41:52.33 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Director Whelan. Okay. I'm just scrolling here to see if I can see any raised hands. Let me just give everyone another minute or so. I'm not seeing any raised hands at this time. So let's go ahead and close public comment on this particular item. Mr. Puffert, since we did not get any public comment, I don't know if there's a need for a rebuttal, but you are welcome. to use any more of your additional time should you choose to do so or that of your applicant team. if you could just indicate if you'd like to use that time or not. |
| 00:42:37.79 | Larry Demeterra | Um, let, Can you hear me? |
| 00:42:40.09 | Kristina Feller | Yes. |
| 00:42:40.76 | Larry Demeterra | Okay. Unless there's any questions from the staff and the commissioners? I can't. We've presented everything we have We think it's really a good project Um, The lady that did call in was the cross. has their house right across the street from us and put up with all the construction and has three daughters, so it was a very tenuous but we had a good relationship with her. Everything went fine. and Um, as I believe the items were always going to be for sale. |
| 00:43:24.10 | Kristina Feller | Great, thank you very much. Okay, let's go ahead and bring this up to our virtual dais for discussion here amongst the commissioners. Would anyone like to start us off? Commissioner Luxenberg, why don't you start us off? |
| 00:43:42.52 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I'm subject to changing condition number two to correct the naming of the changing the name to the unnamed road. I have no issue with making a motion for the approval of this at the appropriate time. |
| 00:43:58.99 | Kristina Feller | so you can make all the findings spelled out by staff. |
| 00:44:03.72 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yes, I feel I can make all the findings spelled out, which are attached. I believe it's attached to the... All the resolutions that are included in our packet for the findings, I believe can be made for the condominium conversion, as well as the subdivision |
| 00:44:17.81 | Unknown | and |
| 00:44:18.03 | Kevin McGowan | to the |
| 00:44:18.33 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:44:20.81 | Jeffery Luxenberg | MACAC findings. and the encouragement findings, obviously that would have to go to the City Council and the design review findings. And I feel bad that they've had |
| 00:44:30.72 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:44:32.26 | Jeffery Luxenberg | two years of time up due to the mudsliding and all that. Anything we can do to push this along, I think would be a good thing. |
| 00:44:40.52 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Commissioner. Commissioner Saad. Thank you. |
| 00:44:44.35 | Nastassya Saad | I would. Second that I think outside, I think senior planner Usher answered the encroachment issue and as an oversight outside of that, I think the staff report was really well done and pretty clear. And I can make all the findings as well. |
| 00:45:01.18 | Kristina Feller | Thank you very much. Commissioner Pierce. |
| 00:45:04.69 | Morgan Pierce | Yes, in light of the fact that this is probably one of the longest projects on record in staff's experience, I would add a condition, if we need to do it in a condition or some other way to make sure that the, The tentative condominium map is updated to reflect only a three-level structure, Uh, on the right side of the property. versus the four level that is labeled Other than that, I'm ready to make the findings. |
| 00:45:31.76 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Thank you very much for that. Vice Chair Graff. |
| 00:45:37.83 | Richard Graef | Yeah. I can make the findings They seem to be pretty clear. Yeah. All right. |
| 00:45:48.07 | Kristina Feller | Excellent. Um, Let's see, Christy, could I ask you to come back on screen here? because I too can make the findings. It seems very straightforward. We have two amendments, however, to a resolution, the first being the identified in condition number two, as Commissioner Luxenberg had laid out, and the other being the map that Commissioner Pierce had laid out regarding the three level structure, the one that's on the right, if you're looking at it off Crescent, those modifications do need to be made to this resolution. |
| 00:46:28.96 | Christy Usher | Understood. Understood. Yep, Steph's having to make those. |
| 00:46:32.89 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Great. If you've got those, that's great. Any further discussion from any of the commissioners or any opposition to those two amendments as stated? Do I hear a motion from anybody? |
| 00:46:47.57 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I'd be happy to make a motion, a resolution approving a tentative minor subdivision map and a condominium conversion permit to convert an existing duplex at 3739 Crescent Avenue into two single family condominium units, an approval of a design review permit, and a recommendation of city council improvement of an encroachment agreement |
| 00:47:02.27 | Unknown | THE END OF |
| 00:47:02.46 | Richard Graef | you |
| 00:47:09.55 | Jeffery Luxenberg | for existing retaining wall located a public unnamed right of way TMCCP EADR 2018-00364 as amended this evening. |
| 00:47:26.78 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Do I have a second? Thank you. |
| 00:47:30.10 | Nastassya Saad | Easy part. |
| 00:47:32.19 | Kristina Feller | Director Whalen can you take roll? |
| 00:47:33.88 | Director Whalen | Thank you. Commissioner Pierce. |
| 00:47:36.63 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yes. |
| 00:47:37.83 | Director Whalen | Commissioner Luxembourg. |
| 00:47:39.52 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yes. |
| 00:47:40.41 | Director Whalen | Mr. Saad. Yes. I share graphs. |
| 00:47:43.47 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yeah. |
| 00:47:44.29 | Director Whalen | And Cherf Dollar. Yes. That carries five zero. Any action on the Planning Commission may be appealed within 10 days of the action to the City Council. You must complete a required appeal form and pay the appeal fee. within 10 days of this action for the appeal to be timely filed. have questions about how to file an appeal please contact the project planner or the community development department Right. |
| 00:48:06.67 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Thank you, and I'd like to thank our Public Works Director Kevin McGowan and our Senior Planner, Christy Usher, very, very thankful to have you both here to help us this evening, thank you. |
| 00:48:21.79 | Director Whalen | Moving right along Chair Feller, if you're ready to item 5B. This is our next public hearing item, which is a request for a sign program. and design review permit. at 2 to 8 Princess Street. We have Christie here again tonight, Senior Planning Christie Usher, who'll be giving the staff presentation this evening. |
| 00:48:54.81 | Richard Graef | you |
| 00:49:02.49 | Maria | Thank you, sorry for the delay on that. |
| 00:49:02.84 | Christy Usher | Thank you, sorry for the delay. |
| 00:49:18.45 | Christy Usher | My apologies, one moment here. Thank you. |
| 00:49:28.29 | Christy Usher | Okay, I'm so sorry for the delay. For your consideration tonight is a design review and sign permit located at 2 through 8 Princess Street, which is also known as 6 Princess Street. |
| 00:49:45.56 | Christy Usher | The project site is approximately 3,400 square feet. |
| 00:49:49.27 | Richard Graef | E. |
| 00:49:50.16 | Christy Usher | There is an existing three story building that is approximately 6,200 square feet. The building's located at the intersection of Princess and Bridgeway, where the zoning is central commercial. Existing uses include the mixed-use building, which has commercial tenants on the ground floor, as well as six residential units on the upper floors. The property and building is located in the city's historic overlay district. Let's see, and surrounding uses include a variety of mixed use commercial uses in buildings. The applicant is proposing a sign program, which would streamline the sign permit process for existing and future tenants. With an approved sign program, individual tenants would not be required to obtain planning commission approval if the sign If the proposed sign is in compliance with the approved sign program, What is proposed is awning signage, which would be located above the entrances to each of the commercial tenant spaces and the entrance to the residential units. And the signage on the awning is less than five square feet per tenant. And there is also window door signage proposed. That is approximately 2.2 square feet. And both the awning signage and window signage are proposed in white lettering. |
| 00:51:27.85 | Christy Usher | Two building wall signs are also proposed that are above the ground floor level. Those signs include an 1878 date sign, that is 1.3 square feet, and a Schnell's house sign that is 60 square feet Both are proposed as a nod to the building's history as described in the historic documents provided in this staff report. Minor exterior modifications are also proposed that focus primarily on the rear and side elevations with replacing existing stairs and fire scapes decks, privacy screens, and storage areas, just to name a few of the improvements that Only one minor changes were posed to the front facade, which is the replacement of an existing guardrail that's off to the right on the front elevation. |
| 00:52:25.21 | Christy Usher | see just one technical correction there was an oversight and there was a notation on the plans that the applicant has since removed Um, but this notation on sheet M1 erroneously referenced a wrought iron roof rail. that is not proposed, just for the record. |
| 00:52:48.97 | Christy Usher | By way of background, the project does require a certificate of appropriateness per the code no person owner or other entity shall restore rehabilitate alter, construct, demolish, or otherwise change the exterior appearance of a property within a historic overlay district without first having gone for review for a certificate of appropriateness by the Historic Preservation Commission And in addition, the code also requires that any work involving a sign under this section Um, shall also obtain a certificate of appropriateness. |
| 00:53:34.70 | Christy Usher | For further background, the project did receive a certificate of appropriateness by the Historic Preservation Commission in January of this year. The COA, however, did exclude the date signage and the Schnell's house signage. Um, it also excluded a brass plaque in the roof railing I mentioned earlier, but those elements are not part of this proposal. The reason in summary of the exclusion of those items was the HPC could not make the Secretary of Interior standards under the finding that they created a false sense of history. With respect to zoning compliance, the building is existing legal non-conforming in quite a few aspects, as you'll see in the project data table and the staff report. However, with respect to this project, there are no increases or alterations to those elements. So they remain existing legal non-conforming. With respect to the signage, the proposed awning, Um, window doors, signage and address numbers are in compliance. Um, The proposed wall and date sign are not in compliance because they would need the COA from the HPC. and an exception from the planning commission, um, because they do exceed the maximum allowable sign area. The proposed exterior modifications are in compliance. Public comments, staff received five letters of support for the project. Three of those came in and were included in your staff report. Two additional letters came in as late mail on Monday or Tuesday, but are posted online. Um, Let's see, late mail was also received from the applicant. staff has responded to the applicant's concerns, providing options to the PC tonight. for streamlining the application with conditions of approval as it relates to the staff recommendation and referring the item back to the HPC. And with that, the staff recommendation is that the Planning Commission approve the portions of the project that obtain the certificate of appropriateness from the hpc that would be the awning. And window window and door signage, as well as the address numbers and the existing modification, or I'm sorry, exterior modifications. to the building. And the staff recommendation is also that the planning commission consider referring the Schnell's house signage and date signage back to the HPC for further consideration of a COA. That completes the summary of the staff report. As always, I'm here to answer any questions. I know the applicant will be presenting. The applicant team is here along with the historic consultant, the owner, and they'll be presenting tonight as well. Thank you. |
| 00:56:50.47 | Kristina Feller | Outstanding work, Christy, thank you so much. I know you've been working hard on this and appreciate you providing a very succinct staff report and presentation this evening. It's most appreciated by the commission, thank you. Great, so at this point, let me ask the commissioners if they have any questions for staff on this matter. Um, Commissioner Saad, I'm actually going to start with you this evening because I believe you might then. part of reviewing this previously when you were on HBC? |
| 00:57:24.44 | Nastassya Saad | I was, and I think more for Just the record, and confirmation that the signage that was edition of the 1878 and the Schnell House, did happen uh, is currently non-compliant. Is that correct? senior |
| 00:57:49.30 | Christy Usher | Yeah, that is correct. You know, I'm realizing they took action on that in January. So we may have... I think maybe November was your last meeting, so you might have just missed deliberations on this one. |
| 00:58:07.52 | Director Whalen | I can, Christy. So I think that, so this project has gone to the HPC a couple of times. And so if I recall correctly, there was the skylights that were reviewed by the HPC with some other facade request changes that occurred in about the August timeframe, if I'm recalling correctly, or the September timeframe. So Commissioner Saad probably was on the HPC during that time frame and then returned back with the signage request in January. |
| 00:58:37.37 | Nastassya Saad | I have a better memory than I, Director Whelan, but yes, all time has come to a halt from last year. But yes, I've seen this at some point, I don't think from the signage standpoint, but I don't think I have any other... Thank you. um I don't think I have any other questions for staff. I just wanted to make sure we clarified that for the record. So thank you. |
| 00:58:56.09 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Commissioner Saad. Commissioner Pierce. |
| 00:58:59.63 | Morgan Pierce | Yes, thank you Chair Faller. I only have one question for Ms. Usher, and it's probably just me trying to understand all the various aspects of our South Liddy Municipal Code, My understanding is what we're being, REQUESTED OF PEOPLE to act on here tonight relative to the the signs that didn't come through is recommending them back to the HPC, but everything I see here does not suggest any referral back to the HPC. All I see is the ability of the Planning Commission to approve things once they have been reviewed for certificate of appropriateness, not whether they've been for a certificate just reviewed. In my interpretation, this body has the authority to approve these should they choose to do so. Is that correct or is that incorrect? without referral back to the HPC. |
| 00:59:51.84 | Christy Usher | The code specifies that without a COA, no further planning entitlements can be issued. |
| 01:00:03.52 | Christy Usher | Thank you. |
| 01:00:03.53 | Morgan Pierce | Maybe it's just some vague reason how the code is written because I'm not seeing that. |
| 01:00:10.64 | Morgan Pierce | but that's fine, I'll trust staff to you have all the nuanced understanding. |
| 01:00:16.53 | Director Whalen | So do you have the code citation and handy for the commission, maybe on a slide. |
| 01:00:18.93 | Maria | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 01:00:22.52 | Maria | Mm-hmm. |
| 01:00:25.15 | Director Whalen | And commissioner Pierce, it's in the sign section of the chapter 1042. and I believe it's item C under the historic, it might be 07L, I'm not looking at it right now. I'm looking at it right now. |
| 01:00:39.43 | Morgan Pierce | I'm not looking at it. I'm looking at it right now. That's why I'm asking. |
| 01:00:42.33 | Director Whalen | Okay. |
| 01:00:46.31 | Morgan Pierce | But I guess, so the language seemed, and it must just be the language because the way I read it, it almost suggests that the Planning Commission decision supersedes the certificate of appropriateness. But again, there's some nuance there that isn't exactly clear. how I'm reading. |
| 01:01:10.26 | Morgan Pierce | because I'm looking down at special signs. item S at the very bottom of that section. |
| 01:01:19.03 | Director Whalen | So when we're looking at 1042.070C as in CAT, Certificate of Appropriateness Required. |
| 01:01:24.43 | Richard Graef | Yeah. |
| 01:01:27.25 | Director Whalen | And he, Any work involving a sign under this section, unless otherwise stated, shall obtain a certificate of appropriateness by the Historic Preservation Commission. as provided in 1046.060. prior to the issuance of any building permits or approval of any work. approval of other planning entitlements. |
| 01:01:50.29 | Morgan Pierce | Right, so then you read down the special signs, item three, It almost suggests that we can overrule that. So that's where I'm getting a little fuzzy. if we can make a finding, one of the three findings. |
| 01:02:04.49 | Director Whalen | So the special, we did explore the special sign option for this project. And we did take a look at the definition of a special sign. I can pull that up real quick, unless Christy has it right over her fingertips. And, but it was not the sign that is being requested this evening. If I recall correctly, three dimensional or movable sign. Let me pull the language, but it was, not a definition that captured the requested sign tonight. |
| 01:02:35.07 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Larry, I don't know if this is helpful, but I think the section you're looking for 10-460-60-D. which is the statement the advisory, historic reservations advisory certificate cannot be modified. I think that's the language you're to looking for. |
| 01:02:59.57 | Director Whalen | Thank you Commissioner Luxembourg. There's definitely that language in the historic section of the municipal code of the role and authority of the Historic Preservation Commission. And then there's also additionally this explicit section in the sign code that requires a certificate appropriateness prior to any other planning approvals. Christy, were you able to locate the definition of the special sign kind of find that. |
| 01:03:28.35 | Kristina Feller | Christy, you're on mute. |
| 01:03:34.91 | Maria | Let me get that for you. |
| 01:03:36.70 | Christy Usher | Thank you. |
| 01:03:36.72 | Kristina Feller | oh here we go sorry i think part of the issue director whalen and senior planner usher as as we're sort of discussing here from multiple commissioners is a couple things. One, can this body I'm not sure. override or supersede. or negate anything the HPC does. That's number one. um, Number two, I think that we have questions about the specificity in the municipal code about exactly what we're discussing here in terms of having from procedurally having to send something back to the HPC. And if I've missed something, I know my fellow commissioners I'm in here. |
| 01:04:28.95 | Kristina Feller | but I think it's important that we get this right before we go through. |
| 01:04:31.29 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 01:04:31.63 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 01:04:46.39 | Kristina Feller | And I see our city attorney has joined us too. |
| 01:04:50.58 | Mary Wagner | I'm here too. Happy to help. |
| 01:04:53.18 | Kristina Feller | Anything you'd like to add to that? |
| 01:04:56.55 | Mary Wagner | I just wanted to echo what both Lily and Christy said when they read you the provision about the signs in the historic district. The code is very explicitly says shall require a certificate of appropriateness versus some of the other language in the code that you've been talking about where it appears to be more advisory and to frame your CEQA. determination, which is not the case with respect to the sign. So I understand |
| 01:05:22.32 | Barbara Herzig | Thank you. |
| 01:05:24.23 | Mary Wagner | know where the where the the differentiations are coming from. And I think Lily and Christy were gonna also look at this sign you know, type of sign or special sign issue. I don't know, Lily, if you had a chance to find that. |
| 01:05:35.96 | Director Whalen | I just managed to find it. So a special sign, and this is in the, the risk of losing it here, but this is in the applicability section of the sign code. open up, sorry, sign definitions, 10, 4, 2, 0, 3, 0. Special sign is a sign composed of a statue, art form, or unique figure typically constructed in three-dimensional design and representing the specific product or service rendered. And so in reviewing that definition, we did not think that the signage proposed the Schnell's house sign or the date sign met that definition of a special sign. and therefore it didn't qualify under that section of the code. |
| 01:06:20.03 | Kristina Feller | So what you're basically saying is that awnings meet that definition. but The Schnell sign does not. Is that correct? |
| 01:06:29.11 | Director Whalen | The awnings were approved with a certificate of appropriateness by the historic preservation |
| 01:06:33.82 | Kristina Feller | by the historic reservation definition of signage. |
| 01:06:37.92 | Director Whalen | They're not, so the awning signs are awning signs. They're not considered special signs. |
| 01:06:42.28 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 01:06:45.24 | Morgan Pierce | Okay. Thank you for digging into that. That was very helpful. |
| 01:06:52.28 | Kristina Feller | Right. Any additional questions, Commissioner Pierce? I have not. for staff. Okay. Commissioner Luxembourg. |
| 01:06:59.91 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Okay, I have sorry, Christy, thank you for your report and I have a really a four-part question which is a little complicated so I apologize in advance but each question will lead me to the next question. So the first one relates and I'm quoting out of the applicant's application that they that they provided the advance warning to the planning department and they they indicated they wanted to have their artist painter paint the chanel's house signed before it was approved by the city so that they uh paint the sign before the scaffolding came down the applicant indicated that when speaking with the planning director about this need prior to the work being done, they offered to commit to painting the sign over behind a new coat of navy blue siding paint if the exception request is denied by the Planning Commission. When he notified the department, I don't know if this is a question for you or for Director Wayland, was he told that there would be a fine if he did this without the proper permit? |
| 01:08:13.97 | Director Whalen | Thank you, Commissioner Luxembourg. So the, and I will address that question. little bit more history on what occurred in winter of last year i received a phone call from mr rex in November of last year on November 24th, he requested to paint the signage in advance of an approval. contingent on an agreement with the city. And the rationale was that there was scaffolding on the sidewalk and everyone is interested in getting the scaffolding off the sidewalk so that businesses can open up on Princess Street. So I discussed that with Michael. And I told him that I needed more information from him on the cost of a cherry picker, and that was, one of the decision points that we're making is if the scaffolding comes down, how are they going to get the sign painted back up? and And I also asked him when they would be submitting an application for the signage, because that would, Um, factor into the city's decision and that we need, I need to talk to the interim city manager about if the city was going to be entering into some sort of an agreement with Mr. Rex and the property owner. And then I also followed up with a voice message and didn't receive a response. The next, the next. The correspondence I had was in December. December 9th. And it was in response to an email from Michael that I'd received indicating that the signage had already been painted. I don't recall if I explicitly told Michael during my phone conversation with him, if, THEIR OWNERS. if. if um If actions were taken without appropriate permits, that there would be a penalty fee. Michael has been working in the city for a number of years and I assume he is aware of that penalty fee but i don't remember if i explicitly told him during our phone conversation about that |
| 01:10:16.08 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Okay, you'll see there's a series of questions here getting to some resolution, so I'll bear with you. So the second one is I'm very familiar with the Secretary of Interior Standards. I've been working with them for like 30 or 40 years. In my opinion, the letters of the sign are painted. I don't think anybody would confuse that the paint was the original paint, because paint obviously needs to be painted over. However, the opinion of the hbc and i could see how that they could come to a different conclusion than i am uh and again i read the statute that i was quoting earlier that you folks also mentioned where it's the historic preservation commission's decision that cannot be overridden by the Planning Commission. So I guess this is a question for Christy, because Christy, you serve as staff to the Historic Preservation Commission. You wrote the staff report for them as well. Given that nothing has changed between January and now. In your opinion, if we send this back to the historic preservation commission, are we going to get a different result? I mean, there's no substantive difference. They made a decision. I might not agree with that decision, but that was a decision. What would you think there would be a different result if this got set back? |
| 01:11:42.94 | Christy Usher | That's hard for me to say. I don't have any inclination one way or another in particular to that. I'm happy to elaborate a little bit on the conclusion that they made with respect to those items. |
| 01:11:51.56 | Richard Graef | Happy. |
| 01:11:58.88 | Christy Usher | They felt like the date sign um the building had undergone so many renovations that to put any particular date on was was not in keeping because the building, it had been modified so much that they thought that that was a false replication of history. And then they felt like with the Chanel's house signage, because it was removed, putting it back was also creating a false sense of history. So I've been providing those insights a little bit more on why they came to that conclusion. It's hard for me to speculate if they would come to any different conclusion or not. |
| 01:12:41.71 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Okay, my third part of this question is, they obviously did substantial work to repair the damage from the fire and all of that. Did they have any permits at all? for when the scaffolding was offered, did they not need any permits for that? |
| 01:13:02.42 | Director Whalen | You may step in. |
| 01:13:03.77 | Richard Graef | Yeah. |
| 01:13:04.22 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 01:13:04.53 | Director Whalen | Yes, they did have the permits to do the work that they've been doing. All of the permits, I believe, were at the administrative design review level. So they went through the Certificate of Appropriateness with the Historic Preservation Commission. and then were approved administratively by staff because they didn't trigger a planning commission review |
| 01:13:22.53 | Jeffery Luxenberg | So the request now is for these signs. and for the decks in the back which were not part of that administrative review and now it's come to the Planning Commission, and so everything is now before us because that's where it works. I understand that. My fourth part of my question was there was something I disagreed with the staff report, but I think you've changed it this evening, and I want to make sure that I understand that. You had originally said, and again, I'm reading, I apologize, that the proposed signage and the 1878 date did not receive a certificate of appropriateness by the Historic Preservation Commission and therefore is not eligible for further planning and time limits without obtaining said COA and to the contrary the HPC approval if I read it indicates that they've approved that except for excluding this Nell sign in 1878. And so you were sort of saying, and I do take issue and we'll talk about later some of the conditions that you had suggested as options, but you were sort of saying that if this goes back to the HBC, they can't get approval for the signs that are on the awnings because it's all part of the same package. That's the wording that was in the staff report. The slides tonight have a slightly different take on that. And given the pandemic and given these poor tenants that, not being able to get people coming in, I think those signs need to be able to move ahead regardless of what happens with the other side. So I'm seeing tonight, you're suggesting slightly different than the report. Am I getting that correctly? |
| 01:15:04.04 | Christy Usher | Yeah. |
| 01:15:09.10 | Christy Usher | Yeah, absolutely. It sounds like the staff report miscommunicated. So absolutely the staff recommendation is approving the awning signage, the door the window door signage the address number so if that somehow got miscommunicated in the staff report um i apologize but no it's certainly been staff's intent that those that the awning window door signage address numbers and exterior modifications be approved by the pc tonight it's the strictly it's the wall signage the schnell's house and the date sign that because they don't have a COA, um, restricts the PC from approving them tonight. |
| 01:15:49.56 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Okay. I mean, the other part of this that was bothering me is that I would never, I never want to condone doing anything without proper permits. So I don't want that to be misconstrued. But this idea that we, if they go back to the HBC and do get approval, that they're going to be assessed a punitive damages for an enforcement order, it just seems not the right solution in this particular case. I mean, I would hope that since they offered to paint it over, that ends up having to be painted over and they're going to paint it over, that they're not going to be assessed $2,500 and something dollars. Basically, the one option says if it's approved, they're going to have to pay this. And until they pay this, they can't get any of the other signed permits. That's what it says. And that really got me of great concern. |
| 01:16:51.70 | Richard Graef | I'm not sure. |
| 01:16:51.77 | Jeffery Luxenberg | My suggestion is that in this particular case, that we don't assess any penalties. And if we split this up, we let them go ahead with whatever. We haven't figured out what we're approving, what we're not approving. But I would just hope that they could move ahead and not be assessed penalties if they do comply with whatever decision is made. |
| 01:17:14.94 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Um, that lets you sleep in. |
| 01:17:18.97 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Those are my questions. Thank you, Chair Feller and Tick. I apologize for the length of those questions. |
| 01:17:23.91 | Kristina Feller | No, it opened up a conversation that I think addressed a number of questions and thoughts likely the rest of us had. Let me ask Vice Chair Graff, if you have any questions for staff at this time. |
| 01:17:40.97 | Richard Graef | Well, um... One question I had Christy answered, and that was How did this sign happen to get up there without benefit of an application and permits. It just went up. um, So that answered that question. It is a little confusing about what we're able to do as a commission, given the HPC's position on this. And so, that's the only real area of confusion that I see is you know, if this commission Fenberg the Uh, the signage. where does that What else? If we don't, then it's not a problem. So, That confusion, I think, still I'm still not real clear on that. how that works. But that's, I have no other, No other questions that haven't already been vetted. Thank you. |
| 01:18:59.54 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Thank you. I just had a couple. Um, Christy, can you just... Um, because we got sort of the revised language and sort of idea from staff. late after you had responded to a letter from the applicant. Can you just sort of give us a quick overview of some of the language that you're suggesting as an option for the commission just so before we ask the applicant to do a presentation, we have that. information in our minds. |
| 01:19:42.05 | Christy Usher | Absolutely. So there's quite a few options on the table for you tonight. A few that staff have identified is that Um, Starting with the first one, you approve the exterior modifications, the signage on the awning and the doors and the addresses. And then refer the, um, wall signage, the Chanel's house and date sign back to the HPC. Um, they would in theory, then need to come back to the planning commission for an exception. because it is over the maxillow will sign area. So that would be one option. Another option would be to streamline, um, and not have them come back to the planning commission for that exception. And you could grant an exception tonight if the HPC does reverse their decision. So that's one option. Um, Let me see. |
| 01:20:57.64 | Richard Graef | . |
| 01:21:00.42 | Christy Usher | Yeah, and then I mean the other options are certainly to deny the signage tonight and the wall signage and they need to remove that signage within 30 days. That's also another option. |
| 01:21:15.71 | Christy Usher | Thank you. Am I missing any other options, Director Whalen? |
| 01:21:22.71 | Director Whalen | I think you covered all the permutations of options of an approval of, all of the items. with the exception of the wall signage and then the path forward for those items as well. Obviously the other option for the planning commission is to If, that too. if you are so inclined to, to deny the entire project. let staff know what findings you're basing that denial on and we would prepare a resolution of denial and bring that back to you at your next hearing |
| 01:21:57.66 | Kristina Feller | Okay, great, thank you. And regarding the date on the building and the Schnell house, I'm not sure. Stensiline. was there any explanation that you wanted to go into in terms of, how and why they painted that way or stenciled that way? something that they had researched historically. |
| 01:22:25.76 | Christy Usher | Well, if you don't mind, I'm sure the applicant would like to address that. The historic consultant is here tonight. So if you don't mind, I think that'd be a good question for them to respond to. |
| 01:22:38.60 | Kristina Feller | I will absolutely ask them if they don't cover that in their presentation, but was any of that at any time presented or explained to staff? |
| 01:22:48.86 | Christy Usher | Well, certainly it was presented to the HPC. during a certificate of appropriateness public hearing. Absolutely. |
| 01:22:55.94 | Kristina Feller | Okay. And just a quick question about the awning, which is sort of a detailed question, but you know, that You know, this building sets it, I think, incredibly important and vibrant intersection in our historic downtown area. and I wanted to, but our sidewalks are not very deep. in that area and it's right sort of where across, you know, crosswalks are and you know, there's, there's a lot going on and there's, you know, traffic lights and so on. |
| 01:23:26.02 | Nina | and I'm not sure. |
| 01:23:26.22 | Unknown | Bye. |
| 01:23:29.49 | Kristina Feller | I'm not sure. How? How deep is that awning? How deep does that project into the sidewalk |
| 01:23:38.77 | Christy Usher | You know, I don't know offhand, I apologize for that, but I am almost certain the applicant again would be, would be a great resource for that. I know that they've examined that front walkway and how they're improving it for the pedestrian experience there. So if you don't mind, if we could have them comment on how their improvements |
| 01:24:02.15 | Kristina Feller | I absolutely I will. And one last question, which again, it might be better to punt to the applicant, which is fine. but just from a staff review standpoint, Um, did you review any lighting within the awning or on those facades particularly where the address numbers and signs are, because there are different parts of downtown for a lot of visitors or even some residents like ourselves, it can be difficult to actually find the number, the street number. |
| 01:24:36.17 | Christy Usher | Yes, sorry I didn't mention in the presentation, And it's probably lost among the the Dent staff report. There is illumination proposed at the entrance to each of the tenant buildings. A soffit, a can light, recessed can light is proposed. So that is intended to light the entrance, and make that walkway a bit more pedestrian friendly. and make those entrances more visible as well. And I do suspect the applicant will add to that. commentary as well regarding the lighting and their purpose and what they're proposing and what their goals are with respect to it. |
| 01:25:22.18 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Okay, thank you. I'm not sure. Any other questions for staff at this time before we ask the applicant team to come up here to present to us? I'm sure there'll be more for the applicant, but Okay. All right, then at this time, if I could ask the applicant the applicant team to come up. Looks like Mr. Rex, are you gonna be presenting for the applicant team or do you have others that the Zoom team needs to be aware to unmute and, uh, allow share screen. |
| 01:26:01.74 | Michael Rex | Oh, hi. It's, uh, I may be the only one unless I need Nina's assistance in answering some specific questions. |
| 01:26:12.15 | Kristina Feller | Okay, terrific. |
| 01:26:13.45 | Michael Rex | I mean, it's our project, |
| 01:26:15.80 | Kristina Feller | Wonderful. Okay. So hopefully you can see the comment timer here on your screen. 15 minutes for your presentation. Use that time as you wish with other members of your team. You can reserve time. And certainly, as you know, because I think we've done this a couple of times together, if we ask you questions, we do stop the clock and that doesn't count against you. So with that, I think you are now a co-host so you can share your screen and do as you wish. are welcome this evening. |
| 01:26:51.13 | Michael Rex | Okay, thank you. Good evening, commissioners and city staff. I'm Michael Rex, architect. I'm representing the property. owner Lloyd Silverstein and his partners and wife. And I wanted to thank staff for helping us get to this point. I'm not sure. I thought, as you know, I'm a man of very few words. And I'm gonna try to keep it short and focused on the cogent issues because I think I think in terms of most of the signage that's being proposed and the renovations to the rear of the house, rear of the building. of the I It's recorded. We have reached out to the adjacent neighbors, all of them adjacent property owners. We have letters from three of them. One didn't respond, which is Hanson's gallery. but all the other three did. Plus we got another three letters from other members of our community supporting what we propose. And we're asking tonight that you improve through the sign program so we can get with their identification clearly visible on their storefronts. And we have a project with Center Construction and we've been holding off on the rear of the building until tonight. We're ready to, we've actually prepared for a permit for that work and would like to move forward with that. Um, I, uh, of And Christy, can you put the drawings up that we submitted? I wanted to focus on the graphics. |
| 01:28:34.83 | Michael Rex | If you could stop my timing, my timer here. |
| 01:28:39.74 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, let's stop that. Don't worry, Michael, you know that ran a little bit |
| 01:28:45.90 | Richard Graef | Thanks. |
| 01:28:46.29 | Kristina Feller | Give some time for Chrissy to pull those up for you. |
| 01:28:52.61 | Kristina Feller | And when she gets them up here, we'll restart that. Wow. |
| 01:29:05.81 | Maria | Thank you. |
| 01:29:18.67 | Michael Rex | Okay. Okay. Christy, can we scroll down Thank you. Thank you. Um, There's a building section that would show, in fact, here we can see, the mention on the awning, Let's go to the side view. I think it'd be on the elevation, Chris, |
| 01:29:42.33 | Michael Rex | Uh, |
| 01:29:47.24 | Michael Rex | Yeah, I'll be in a side elevation. |
| 01:29:49.97 | Kristina Feller | Um, she must stop that clock for just a minute till we get where we need to go. |
| 01:29:58.85 | Michael Rex | Okay, let's see. Looking for the projection of the awning. Um... I thought it'd be right there. It must be on the plan view then. Um, It should have been right here, I thought. Let's go to the... I'm not sure. I think it was dimension dotted in on the plan view. Uh, we were asked what the length of its extension over the sidewalk is. |
| 01:30:31.20 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, and Mr. Rex, you know, we will be asking you So I think that's a good question. So, um, you know definitely I mean this is your time you can use it however you'd like to and you've obviously heard from other commissioners |
| 01:30:46.42 | Michael Rex | Yeah. Okay, well, we can come back to this. Let's scroll down to the historic photo. If we can, Christy, thank you. |
| 01:31:01.79 | Michael Rex | Thank you. Yeah, okay. I'll scroll up a little bit so we can see the upper photo. Yeah, thank you. I wanted to speak about the Chanel house and the Uh, We were really surprised that this was rejected by the HBC in terms of the date, this building is probably closer to its original condition, particularly for its age than any building in the historic district. The groundwork changed. But the upstairs is identical with the exception The two windows are added on the right side, so they're paired now instead of single. Other than that, it's a dinner. And there used to be a saloon downstairs. Uh, Obviously there isn't any more. So we think the date is, we don't have to have the date, but we thought it'd be a benefit to celebrate the history because this building is one of the oldest buildings downtown, from 1878. The snow house sign we're also surprised was rejected because the state and city standards allow for replication if and only if, You really know exactly what was there before. And we know exactly what was there before, because you can see it in these pictures. And we replicated the font and the size and everything else with one exception. We painted it a color to make it more subtle. We didn't think it had announced itself so boldly, as you see in these photos. So, you know, the decision, we think there's a good chance that HPC will reconsider. because we'll explain it a little more carefully that this is completely consistent with historic standards to replicate something that used to exist, as long as you know it's there. So we're willing to- |
| 01:32:48.24 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Michael, can I ask you a quick question? I'm sorry to interrupt you. The photo on the right says 1910. Do you have any idea what the photo is? |
| 01:32:54.47 | Kristina Feller | I have no idea what Bye. |
| 01:32:55.90 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 01:32:57.23 | Kristina Feller | Can we stop the clock? Thank you. Sorry, Commissioner Luxenberg. |
| 01:33:01.35 | Jeffery Luxenberg | No, that's fine. Again, I apologize for interrupting, but I just think it would be helpful. There is no date on the one on the left. Is it before or after? |
| 01:33:02.31 | Kristina Feller | The |
| 01:33:09.03 | Michael Rex | to the one on the right. you're up. The photo was taken in 1910, but the building, We have the records of the building. We had our historic architect, Mark Holpert, research. He confirmed that it was built in 1978 and evidence to support It's 1910 just stayed when Florida stayed. |
| 01:33:32.99 | Jeffery Luxenberg | No, that's not my question. My question, the one on the right says 1910, and I believe that. The one on the left, the letters seem different. So I was wondering whether the the photo on the left predates the one on the right, or post dates the one on the right. That's what I was trying to find out. |
| 01:33:51.62 | Michael Rex | Thank you. |
| 01:33:51.96 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I'm not sure. |
| 01:33:52.03 | Michael Rex | I'm not sure. Yeah. I don't know that. It may well be the one on the left predates it. I don't think we have a date of that photo. It doesn't appear they're slightly different. The one that we matched is the one on the left because we think it's the older one. because we're showing a shadow of the letters kind of a silhouette of them rather than the opaque letters you see on the right. |
| 01:34:20.80 | Jeffery Luxenberg | It's one on the left. I understand that and I see that you've matched the one on the left. I was just hoping to have a date of that photograph on the left. |
| 01:34:21.36 | Michael Rex | Okay. |
| 01:34:28.53 | Michael Rex | Well, we think that's the oldest one. |
| 01:34:28.55 | Jeffery Luxenberg | We think that Thank you. |
| 01:34:30.98 | Michael Rex | And our research was guided by our historical architect consultant. of, Okay. Thank you. We're willing to return to the Historic Preservation Commission to see if we can persuade them to change their mind and grant a Certificate of Appropriateness but we would prefer not to have to come back to this commission. and, because the staff has I told you in their staff report that the findings to grant the exception for both these signs can be found. And if you agree, then we'd like you to make a decision tonight to approve them. That's an option that, Planner Usher pointed out you can do. So we ask that you do that. So we don't have to come back. And very quickly, after we warned the city that we had to paint them before the scaffolding came down, or we'd never be able to do it, from a cost standpoint, and uh, We've been trying to get this approved now, going through the process for well over four months. and we didn't have four months to wait. And we didn't think the city wanted the scaffolding up there for another four months. In fact, we made a commitment to take it down as soon as we could. So it was a judgment call where we warn the city of our situation. and we don't think we should be punished for that. In fact, if we make the process too difficult, it discourages property owners like Lloyd Silverstein to do the right thing. He doesn't have to have these signs. He thought that the city would appreciate him spending the money and going the extra mile and going through the whole approval process to get it approved. as a gift to the city. And we hope you support that intention by not discouraging folks like Lloyd from doing the right thing downtown. And, I also want you to know I'm going to stop of, Can we stop sharing for a minute? Let's see the screen. Yeah, thank you. I want you to know that we were originally told we needed a variance for this sign, the Snell's House sign. and the building days. we applied for a variance. And then staff came back and said, hey, we found a way that you don't need a variance. You can apply for an exception. And we were told that Even after HPC denied these two signs, that HPC was purely advisory. and that the planning commission is responsible for CEQA determination. We were told this in an email. from the planning department back in the beginning of January, January 28th. and that if we filed an application, that we can take the project forward to you with the advisory COO that we had in place earlier. and that the Planning Commission would make the secret determination and act on the project. And we are also told that we can apply under the special sign exception program for historic buildings. And in your packet, in my narrative, I explained why. Now that you could determine this is a creative, unique graphic art form, and that the findings that it contributes to the vitality of the historic overlay district is something you can definitely find, I think. And so, I've I... it clearly does seem exempt. We've been getting very mixed messages. We've followed the direction of staff. And now we've been waiting for a hearing for three months and we just found out last Friday that we have to go back to the Historic Preservation Commission. and maybe in fact return to this board. It took us by big surprise. which is unfortunate. So we're not gonna fight City Hall, but we do ask that you consider and take action on the signing exception. So pending historic review. And then we don't have to come back. The last thing I want to I'll point out is a couple conditions of approval, okay? If I can refer you to your attachment number two, proposed conditions of approval, Condition number one, B as in boy, small i. it requires we return to the planning commission should the uh historic preservation commission reconsider I'd like you to change that wording so we don't, if in fact you're able to make the findings to approve our exceptions. that we've requested. that. tonight. on Roman numeral small double I, Um, It says that I'd like you to change the wording so that you can see unless unless we submit for a zoning amendment within 30 days. Let's say a historic preservation mission does not reconsider. then we'd like to appeal their decision. And we're told we can't appeal their decision. There's no legal grounds to do that, which I can't imagine. They're not elected officials or volunteers. But if that's the way it is, then we'd like to, before we paint over the sign, we'd like to apply for a zoning amendment to allow for an appeal. we think that's reasonable. we think it's unreasonable that an applicant cannot appeal a volunteer border committee. and they're not elected officials. and no matter how well intended they are, they don't have absolute power, or at least they shouldn't. So we'd like that opportunity and not suddenly have, you know, a 2000 plus penalty kick in immediately while we apply for a zoning amendment. Okay. And if you add that possibility, that would be helpful. And then on 13, condition number 13, we found the wording kind of confusing. We're asking for a signed program. We're not asking for specific words for tenants, because as you know, tenants turn over. And our project planner, Christy Usher, pointed out just that. But the wording, I think it's a little confusing on 13. It says, we have to come back for a sign permit if the signs change that differ from the basis of this approval. I think if it just read, if they differ from the approved signed program, that you're hopefully adopting tonight, that'd be more clear. Cause I think when people read it, they might not, quite understand it quite so clearly. MR PRICE. And let's see, I think. Thank you. That's it. um, That's what you requested tonight is to approve our application and also approve the exception we're requesting for the Schnell House. and the building day. And I'm here for questions and I could look for that depth of overhang. Or I could maybe refer to Nina, she probably has that number. available. Thank you. |
| 01:42:13.03 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Thank you, thank you very much, Mr. Axis. We have got four minutes 15 left on the clock. Um, Let's go ahead and open this up to questions to the commission. Cause I think there are a couple of things that, um, we were asking about before that we probably still have questions on So Commissioner Pierce, Do you have any questions for the applicants? |
| 01:42:40.50 | Morgan Pierce | I don't have any questions, but I did wanna add a clarification for a question that Commissioner Luxenberg had regarding the two photos. The photo on the left actually has a utility pole in front of it, whereas the photo on the right does not. So that would suggest that it is the newer of the two. if that helps your assessment. |
| 01:42:58.04 | Michael Rex | I'm not sure. |
| 01:42:59.76 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. |
| 01:42:59.77 | Michael Rex | They didn't have telephones in 1910. Well, there's one in one photo and one not in the other. |
| 01:43:05.97 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. |
| 01:43:06.03 | Michael Rex | Oh, right. The one on the left has a pole, and that's why we actually thought it was over, because the whole town had poles in there. |
| 01:43:06.19 | Morgan Pierce | All right. |
| 01:43:11.98 | Morgan Pierce | Okay. Unless they underground everything immediately after that photo was taken. And then I don't know. |
| 01:43:19.03 | Michael Rex | Thank you. |
| 01:43:19.06 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. |
| 01:43:19.08 | Michael Rex | Thank you. |
| 01:43:19.50 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. |
| 01:43:19.53 | Michael Rex | It's hard to say. Um, I did notice that one on the left has a polar eye. |
| 01:43:28.85 | Kristina Feller | Okay, anything else, Commissioner Pierce at this time? Okay. Vice Chair Graff, I saw your hand up. |
| 01:43:36.04 | Richard Graef | Yeah, I was looking closely at those two photos, and I think they're the same photo. I think the one on the right has been retouched. And the poll has been taken out. And the letters have been darkened. And it was probably kind of a promotional photo. or for some other purpose. But if you look at them really carefully, The angle is the same. the way little bits and pieces of the landscape interact with the building. is exactly the same and they're even on the one on the right. there is a kind of a little ghost of the fall. You can see it if you look closely. So I really think it's the same. Oh, no. And the one on the left, you know, curiously, is probably the original one. |
| 01:44:22.72 | Unknown | No. |
| 01:44:27.85 | Richard Graef | And it is... very much like the proposed signage on the building. today. They had Photoshop in 1910, Richmond. They airbrush, you know, they cut, retouch. They did it all the time. Well, you're a graphic artist. You have a better eye than I did. Yeah, well, look at it really close. I think I'm right. Well, it's funny you say that, Richard, because all the drapes, |
| 01:44:53.04 | Morgan Pierce | blinds are all at the exact same level as well. |
| 01:44:56.55 | Michael Rex | And I didn't notice that. |
| 01:44:57.86 | Morgan Pierce | Yeah, I'll have a piece of it. as a second. I hate that. |
| 01:45:01.95 | Michael Rex | That's amazing. Right. |
| 01:45:03.20 | Kristina Feller | I'm not sure. |
| 01:45:03.25 | Michael Rex | Thank you. |
| 01:45:03.84 | Kristina Feller | Good night, Spice Chair Graph. I love it. Exactly. Do you have any other questions or comments for the applicant at this time? |
| 01:45:15.28 | Richard Graef | Um, I don't really. No, I'll save my comments for our discussion. Okay. No more questions. |
| 01:45:23.41 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Very well. Commissioner Luxenberg, do you have any questions? |
| 01:45:27.62 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Well, I just have one question. What happened to Unit 2? You got unit one and you got three through seven. And if it's gone, why didn't you just renumber it to one through six to make it simpler when somebody's looking for it? What happened to unit two? Thank you. |
| 01:45:42.70 | Michael Rex | Oh, yeah. |
| 01:45:42.89 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Bye. |
| 01:45:43.02 | Michael Rex | I'm |
| 01:45:43.78 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 01:45:44.86 | Michael Rex | Well, I don't really know. We didn't change the numbering. We just applied for what exists. Uh, I don't know if Lloyd, is Lloyd in the audience? Maybe he can answer that question. |
| 01:45:58.07 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, Mr. Silverstein, I mean, this is your project. You are the applicant. So if you'd like to answer that question, you're welcome to do so. Yes. |
| 01:46:06.92 | Lloyd Silverstein | Yeah. |
| 01:46:07.98 | Kristina Feller | Yeah. OK. |
| 01:46:09.80 | Lloyd Silverstein | Am I off mute now? |
| 01:46:11.56 | Kristina Feller | Yes, we can hear you. |
| 01:46:12.55 | Lloyd Silverstein | Okay. Yeah, so at one point in time, there were seven units in the building. apartment number one and apartment number two Actually shared a bathroom, which I'm sure you can appreciate really it doesn't work in the modern era. So many years ago, I'm saying probably 40 years ago, Unit 1 and Unit 2 were combined, but since we had tenants in Units 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7, It didn't make sense to change their addresses, but there are six units in the building now there have been six units once we're done we will be renumbering them one through six |
| 01:46:46.14 | Kristina Feller | Right. Thank you. Thank you very much. |
| 01:46:47.44 | Lloyd Silverstein | Thank you. |
| 01:46:49.88 | Kristina Feller | Commissioner Luxenberg, any more questions for the applicants? |
| 01:46:52.48 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Those are my questions at the time. I'll save comments for when we get back to the dives. |
| 01:46:57.98 | Kristina Feller | Very well. Commissioner Saad. Yeah. |
| 01:47:01.96 | Nastassya Saad | I don't have any questions for the applicant. |
| 01:47:03.40 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 01:47:03.43 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 01:47:04.38 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 01:47:04.49 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 01:47:05.17 | Kristina Feller | Great, thank you very much. I just have a couple of questions. One is, of course, the back to the awning. I'd just like to understand how that's interacting with the sidewalk because it's fairly narrow right there with a lot of traffic. If you could go into that, I think. Michael, you're on mute. |
| 01:47:30.10 | Michael Rex | Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't hear your question. |
| 01:47:33.00 | Kristina Feller | So the question's about the awning. I'd like to understand how far it connects into the sidewalk because it's a very narrow, |
| 01:47:36.51 | Michael Rex | home. |
| 01:47:40.00 | Kristina Feller | sidewalk with a lot of congestion in that intersection, just like to understand that a little bit better. |
| 01:47:44.54 | Michael Rex | Sure. I'm going to defer to Nina for that if we can refer to her. But before she does it, I'd like you to know The awning was approved by the city under permit and was removed because it was burned. And we're using the same frame. We just want to put it back. So we're not really asking to create a new audience, we're asking to replace the burden to canvas. But it's a fair question to know how far it extends. |
| 01:48:10.60 | Nina | Yeah. |
| 01:48:14.04 | Michael Rex | Is that something you can answer, Nina? Are you there? |
| 01:48:17.51 | Nina | Yes, yeah, it extends five feet. Okay, great. |
| 01:48:20.97 | Michael Rex | And how wide is the sidewalk, do you know, Nina? |
| 01:48:23.69 | Nina | It varies. But at all points it's wider than the awning is. Yeah. |
| 01:48:29.70 | Michael Rex | Thank you. |
| 01:48:29.80 | Richard Graef | Yeah. |
| 01:48:29.83 | Michael Rex | Thank you. |
| 01:48:29.97 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 01:48:32.45 | Nina | And like Michael said, it's the same existing awning that's been there for, I don't know how many years, Lloyd? |
| 01:48:32.73 | Richard Graef | And I'm- |
| 01:48:38.59 | Lloyd Silverstein | Am I still on mute? Yeah, so that audience been up for since the 1980s. |
| 01:48:46.13 | Michael Rex | And... |
| 01:48:46.28 | Lloyd Silverstein | I was put on. |
| 01:48:47.03 | Michael Rex | with approval. |
| 01:48:48.23 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, that's fine. I'm just trying to. |
| 01:48:48.53 | Michael Rex | THE END OF THE END OF THE Mm-hmm. |
| 01:48:51.15 | Kristina Feller | to figure out where we are, because I'm assuming the retail elements there you're not looking for food and beverage So no outdoor seating. |
| 01:49:01.22 | Michael Rex | I'm not sure. No changes used, only retail. |
| 01:49:05.47 | Kristina Feller | Great. Thank you. And then Um, You didn't really touch on the exterior elevation I think you were moving to those, the ex, the, the, the back end, backside of the building. Can you just quickly touch on that? |
| 01:49:27.65 | Michael Rex | Sure, be happy to. |
| 01:49:28.20 | Kristina Feller | I'd be happy to. |
| 01:49:30.21 | Michael Rex | I'm gonna need Christy to put the drawings back up. Thank you. |
| 01:49:35.36 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 01:49:37.67 | Michael Rex | I don't know if you've been, around to the back of the building. Pretty sad looking. |
| 01:49:42.75 | Kristina Feller | I have, yes. |
| 01:49:43.59 | Michael Rex | Yeah. this is an opportunity to enhance its appearance, although very few people can see it. I think, Pretty much the only one that can see it Tricia and Smith and Tom Theodoros, who live uphill right behind the building. And there's a letter in your packet where they support it. You can see here in the drawings, I'm not sure. that right now there's a very, on the left, there's a very funky stairway of wood that is rotted out and it's unsafe. completely shot. And because this is an historic building, the code allows a fire escape. There's a fire escape on, the west side of the building in the alleyway there. So we thought we'd repeat that element on the back and get rid of this really horrible wooden stairway. And then, we'd add some new doors and windows. So you can see on the left, the existing openings, and then on the right are the new ones. We're gonna replicate the double hung windows All the doors will look traditional. and we're gonna replace those decks that are rotted in terrible shape. with new decks on the right side there. and Uh... where you can Um, going to propose new guardrails as well. There is some new signage. I mean, not signage, lighting. They're basically industrial shades that you see in the arrow there, thank you. that shield the lamps and direct all the light downward. and they're only over the doorways, which is what the code requires. The building code requires an exterior light over every doorway. And that's the only lighting we're proposing on the back. Um, Other than that, it'll match the front in terms of detailing and color. MR. Uh, It's only going to look a lot better and we'll have safer emergency exits. |
| 01:51:49.24 | Kristina Feller | So are these two doors here at grade, are those primary entrances or those emergency egresses? |
| 01:51:58.90 | Michael Rex | No, you're talking about on the ground floor or? Oh, wow. |
| 01:52:02.83 | Kristina Feller | Oh, wow. The ground floor. |
| 01:52:05.09 | Michael Rex | Oh. None of these are primary entries. All of them are a second means of egress. and Uh... The court requires two exits out of every third story. |
| 01:52:19.91 | Richard Graef | um |
| 01:52:19.99 | Michael Rex | I'm not. Thank you. This provides exits out of Wildstar. for extra safety. but they're not required for primary access. |
| 01:52:31.65 | Kristina Feller | And, and so the path of travel, once you get out side is through that side alley in between Correct. |
| 01:52:39.06 | Michael Rex | Correct. |
| 01:52:39.55 | Kristina Feller | Two buildings. |
| 01:52:40.24 | Michael Rex | Right, and these buildings are under construction, so it's all kind of a mess right now. But when we're done that alley, we'll be clear all kinds of construction material and scaffolding in a much more serviceable condition. |
| 01:52:55.43 | Kristina Feller | Okay. And just back to the Schnell's house signage for just a moment, if I could. Thank you. |
| 01:53:03.97 | Michael Rex | Bye. |
| 01:53:04.02 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 01:53:05.08 | Michael Rex | Do you want to go to that picture? |
| 01:53:05.11 | Kristina Feller | So Well, no, I mean, it's okay. It's just a discussion, I just... So these photos that you found... That's it. Um, So you basically taken what you found in old photos and sort of applied it to the facade that you have, the cleaned up facade that you're gonna have Now. Uh-huh. Is that correct? You just sort of scaled it based on? on the facade. |
| 01:53:39.71 | Michael Rex | We did, and we used the... as a guide. to determine its location and its size. And we actually put a pattern up before it was painted to ensure that it conformed to these photos, which we had on hand at the time. on. and Oh, actually, when this building was renovated in the 80s, it had been stuccoed over. And when they removed the stucco, they actually found something. underneath. And Lloyd wanted to, in fact, he was asked by, the historical, uh, on the board to put it back. and if it didn't happen. So we thought, okay, this would be the opportunity to do it. Now that, Of course, when the step of the siding was removed, the building was painted over again. the wood siding that was below was painted over. but we know the sign's still under there. of |
| 01:54:47.06 | Kristina Feller | So let me ask this then. the Because obviously this property had fire damage, unfortunately. the exterior boards, the exterior facade that we see today, Are those the original boards? or have the, has the, Have all of those been replaced? |
| 01:55:10.06 | Michael Rex | I'm not sure. I'm gonna defer to that. I don't, we didn't replace them this time around. I don't know if they were replaced in the 80s when the stucco came off, but do you know that, Floyd? Thank you. |
| 01:55:22.04 | Lloyd Silverstein | Yes, I do. So with the fire engulfed the left elevation of the building, creating almost no damage to the front. |
| 01:55:22.07 | Michael Rex | Yes, I do. |
| 01:55:31.18 | Lloyd Silverstein | All of the siding on the front, with the exception of the trim on the left corner, is original to the building. The new siding is on the left elevation in the alleyway, which is where the fire was. |
| 01:55:44.04 | Kristina Feller | Okay. So when. So you probably don't know. So when the stucco is taken down, how do you know that there was evidence of the signage when the stuff over |
| 01:55:54.27 | Lloyd Silverstein | You can. You could see it. You can see it, plain as day. |
| 01:55:58.08 | Kristina Feller | It came through. |
| 01:55:58.40 | Lloyd Silverstein | So at the time, Jack Tracy, who I was very friendly with, said, Lloyd, you've got to keep this sign. And in fact, he lobbied with, I believe then it was the Historic Preservation Committee. I don't think it was the Preservation Committee. Commission Yeah. |
| 01:56:12.46 | Richard Graef | Yeah. |
| 01:56:14.11 | Lloyd Silverstein | Yeah, and they lobbied very, very strongly that not only did they want us to do this to restore it, They almost wanted to make us do it. And so at the time, I was working with Don Olson, and I said, You know, at the time, I didn't recognize the historic importance of this sign and I had no connection to the name Schnell. If it said Silverstein's house, I may have thought differently about it. But it said Bell's house and I thought I don't want to put this back up. And in fact, the HPC's narrative of this is completely inaccurate. None of these folks were there. I was actually there. I was actually at these hearings. |
| 01:56:34.25 | Unknown | But it's... Thank you. |
| 01:56:47.21 | Lloyd Silverstein | And the historic commission, preservation board, whoever it was, and Jack really wanted us to do this. I didn't want to do it. So when the historic preservation now is saying that, the Planning Commission or the Historic Preservation turned us down, it was the exact opposite. We had to fight not to put this up. |
| 01:57:04.49 | Richard Graef | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 01:57:04.67 | Lloyd Silverstein | But now, 40 years later, recognizing the historic importance of this, we wanted to do it. But as I've said, This is... This is me fulfilling Jack Tracy's wish and a gift to the city. My property has no more value because of this sign. I can't get any more rent because of it. |
| 01:57:16.77 | Maria | Thank you. |
| 01:57:16.79 | Kristina Feller | MORE VALLEYS. I think it is relevant because Let me just ask a quick question here, and I'm sorry to interject, but I think that this is important is When you took the stucco off this building and found evidence of the signage. Are there any, I mean, we're seeing photos from what 1910, but is there anything from I guess that was the 80s when the stucco came down. Is there any, Did you have a historic preservation architect or consultant that somehow inventoried that or photographed it |
| 01:57:57.00 | Lloyd Silverstein | I certainly didn't. |
| 01:57:58.03 | Michael Rex | I don't know if anybody else. |
| 01:57:58.67 | Kristina Feller | TODAY. I can. |
| 01:57:59.41 | Michael Rex | I can answer that. Yes, there are photos. It was published in the paper in the eighties. When the thucco came off, everybody was amazed to see these words. |
| 01:58:00.83 | Kristina Feller | . |
| 01:58:09.79 | Michael Rex | And there was a photo of the building. during that construction period that showed it. And when Mark produced his research, We have that. So we know it's there. And I personally was here too. And I remember when the stucco came off, |
| 01:58:30.52 | Kristina Feller | So was that presented to HPC? |
| 01:58:33.74 | Michael Rex | Now, We really weren't that prepared because we just thought that they would be pleased. We were taken by real surprise. And that's why we think there might be a possibility to go back because now we can give them more evidence that we're truly replicating what's there, which historic standards allow. If you know what was there, and we know what was there, |
| 01:58:58.48 | Kristina Feller | Okay. So, I mean, okay, I appreciate that. We don't need to, unless the other, any of my fellow commissioners have any questions on this specifically, I think we could stop the screen share here. Thank you, Christy, for putting your screen up. Um, I mean, the one thing that I'll say is, although I can appreciate, um, I'm not sure. you know, your line of thinking in terms of painting. I mean, this, this, Commission can't. condone doing that without a permit. It's very important, you know, process and procedures, you know, because we apply it fairly and evenly to everybody. And I just wanted to say that, and that is completely separate from the discussion the merit of the signage, but, you know, certainly, Nobody should be doing unpermitted work when we know that there's a permit required. And that's the same standard we apply to absolutely everybody. No, no exceptions. Um, Do you have any more questions for the applicant? at this time. Okay, if I recall, Mr. Rex, you had four minutes and 15 minutes. Did you want to use that time now for any additional comments any and anybody from your team You're welcome. That's your time. So you're welcome to use it now if you'd like. |
| 02:00:36.55 | Michael Rex | Well, thanks for that. No, I'm just simply asking for your support tonight to continue to our restoration efforts. of proving what's before you tonight, including, which is also before you, Our application for an exception for the snow house and uh, building base. so we don't have to come back if HFC reconsider. the previous And I did mention a couple of minor changes to the conditions of approval, which we'd also appreciate that you could say. |
| 02:01:04.99 | Richard Graef | Okay. |
| 02:01:12.58 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Thank you very much. I think at this time, we'll go ahead and open this. |
| 02:01:15.37 | Michael Rex | Absolutely. |
| 02:01:21.10 | Kristina Feller | to public comment. Um, just a moment. Mr. Silverstein, did you want to use some of your time as the applicant right now or do you want |
| 02:01:33.05 | Lloyd Silverstein | Yeah. By doing so, am I taking any other time away from the applicants time. or is public comment not applicant time? |
| 02:01:44.63 | Kristina Feller | Well, because you're the applicant, you don't get public comment time. |
| 02:01:48.14 | Lloyd Silverstein | I'm just asking so I can, all right. |
| 02:01:52.44 | Kristina Feller | But you can comment after public comment if you'd like, because there's still four minutes. |
| 02:01:52.46 | Lloyd Silverstein | But you... |
| 02:01:57.28 | Lloyd Silverstein | All right, okay, I'll go right now. Michael and I share one thing in common. were both, as he says, meant a few words. So sadly, I need way more than four minutes, which I'm not gonna take. So most of my comments were directed at this process and what an embarrassment it's been to the city, which I love and that my family has an 80 year history with. this type of thing should not be getting in the way. We tried to do something good. I'm talking specifically about the science. We tried to do something good We didn't try to spark any laws. We didn't do this in the middle of the night. We did this because this was our opportunity to do it. And, We're very clear about it. If it's not approved, I'll paint over it. I'm not happy about it because, I'm not sure. everybody that we've talked to, has been so in favor of this. But I want to just make one comment, and I recognize that You are not the HPC. But they are wrong. This building has not been grossly modified other than a change to the windows. As Michael said, it's probably one of the most original buildings in town. |
| 02:02:55.72 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:02:55.74 | Lloyd Silverstein | Thank you. The date sign which they're objecting to, which they say gives a false sense of history, was actually there before. It was just on the audience. So it said 1878, and if you go on to Google Maps, you'll see that it's been there for the last 25 or 30 years. So this is nothing new. The Schnell sign is something new, but relative to creating a false sense of history, That presumes two things, that the building was not built in 1878. It was, that it was not the Schnell's house. It was, and as I mentioned to someone the other day, currently the Italian Ministry of Culture is approving putting a new floor in the Colosseum in Rome. Now, I recognize that the HPC and Sausalito is an esteemed board, but I would say that the Italian Ministry of Culture is probably on equal footing as them. And somehow, they feel that replacing a floor in the Colosseum, which has been missing for over a thousand years, and really nobody has an exact idea of what it looks like, is not creating a false sense of history. People understand what we're trying to do here. So I think the HPC was patently wrong. I feel as my understanding of reading the code sections that this body does have the authority Thank you. to make that decision. And I would really like to encourage you to do it. This is not a vanity project for me. or Michael, this was something for the city that we tried to do and it was good. And we are getting penalized at every step along the way. And Michael's right. It discourages what this town needs right now. I'm the merchant. I'm the president of the merchant association in Hayes Valley, where I own a store. We've lost 30% of our businesses. Sausalito is going through the same hemorrhaging right now. The downtown district needs help. We need to work with landlords to get them to restore their buildings. We need to work with tenants to allow them to get their building permits. I worked with Mayor Breed and Supervisor Preston in San Francisco on the small business initiative that just passed to expedite permitting so that businesses and landlords can move forward. |
| 02:04:42.76 | Unknown | Bye. |
| 02:04:42.95 | Richard Graef | Bye. |
| 02:04:43.01 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:04:48.87 | Lloyd Silverstein | If we don't do that in Sausalito, Planning Commission isn't going to have anything to do because you're going to have a dead downtown. And I'm dead serious about this. I really understand the impact of commerce in commercial districts. And we really need to make this process work better. I'm speaking as a concerned citizen, and a concerned business and property owner at Saucenito. Thank you for your time tonight. I really appreciate it. |
| 02:05:11.84 | Kristina Feller | Thank you very much, Mr. Silverstein. I see a minute for left. Should the applicant need that in the future? um as we go we're going to go ahead and open public comment now. And, um, So this is a time to take public comment on this item on our agenda this evening. If you'd like to make public comment, if you could please raise your hand. in the zoom application, or I believe it's star nine. If you are calling in on a Cell phone. |
| 02:05:46.13 | Kristina Feller | Let's see, staff, I am not seeing any hands at this time. Could you just confirm for me? Confirmed, Chair Feller. Great, thank you. Let's go ahead and close public comment. And let's pull the discussion deliberations up to our virtual dais. Who would like to start us off this evening? Mr. Saad. |
| 02:06:10.29 | Christy Usher | Thank you. |
| 02:06:10.97 | Kristina Feller | I'm not going to be a good seller. |
| 02:06:12.65 | Christy Usher | Thank you. |
| 02:06:12.69 | Kristina Feller | Oh, yes, I see it too. |
| 02:06:13.28 | Nastassya Saad | Oh. |
| 02:06:15.27 | Kristina Feller | terribly, terribly sorry. |
| 02:06:15.40 | Christy Usher | Yeah. So, |
| 02:06:17.26 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. I do see a hand. Tricia Smith. Welcome this evening. You have three minutes for public comment on this item, if we could please unmute Smith. |
| 02:06:31.57 | Michael Rex | I'm going to put my hand up to the table. |
| 02:06:32.52 | Tricia Smith | Thank you. |
| 02:06:33.90 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:06:33.92 | Michael Rex | Thank you. |
| 02:06:34.17 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:06:34.19 | Tricia Smith | Hi, I'm also here with my husband, Tom Theodore. So I'm actually going to let him speak first. I'm going to go ahead first. |
| 02:06:39.96 | Unknown | Okay. |
| 02:06:41.22 | Tricia Smith | Thank you. |
| 02:06:41.76 | Unknown | Okay. Where am I looking here? Didn't think I'd speak tonight. I was listening, but very fascinating. Tom Theodorus, we live at Seven Reed Lane, right behind, the subject property, worked with Michael and, Mr. Silverstein and they were very courteous and professional in terms of dealing with the issues that we had on the backside. Of course, when we scaffolding came down and got to see the front side. We were very excited about that. We thought it was wonderful. You know, we live in that area. In my history, I had spent five years on the historic landmarks board that we called back then i had a little overlap with commissioner pierce and we uh shared a lot of our hlb stuff way back in in those days so i'm familiar with what the uh historic preservation board does and what it uh what kind of things i also served on the council and um i could tell you of all those things that i learned all i needed to know when i I walked by that place and saw that and I said, wow, we finally did something good there. I think. And I could tell you of all those things that I learned, all I needed to know when I walked by that place and saw that and I said, wow, we finally did something good there. I think that the commission should find ways to make sure that it happens and not get paid over. When we had problems, we've had problems through the years about getting owners to really want to make these kinds of improvements to the property. And, and of course this type of thing that they're, um involved in would make them not want to do it. And of course, it was a little shocking to me we don't even know exactly where they go from here. And that's a crazy thing. I'm just going to go back. I support the project. And I think it's wonderful. Yesterday I walked by three people who live in Saucer and we're looking at it. We all said, wow, isn't this great? So I think we need to find time with it. I do think you really have to take a look at this idea of we could could be in this catch 22 and never get out of it. Having sat on the historic preservation board or its precursor, they're gonna wanna Thank you. I'm not sure. apply the department of interior standards that's all they know that's what their job is we need to have you to be able to look at in a broader way we want to have in the historic district a building like that which actually brings out the historicity of of the of the district and to take it away would just be hurtful by the way we have this is is a coincidence, we bought it at the historic society auction. We have a picture of that building with that same lettering in our study. And unfortunately we live in a 1990s Mediterranean. But please find a way, I would recommend that you guys find a way to give guidance and say, if you don't have the power, have Mary find the power for you. and approve it. and go forward with it. So we don't want to have the owners go round and round and have to, they're going to give up at some point. make sure that we get positive and want to do this thing. So I know it's hard to do it. The sign laws are good. All these rules are good, but let's make them, Let's not, have them get in our way of positive things, please. |
| 02:09:55.20 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Thank you very much, Mr. Theodorus and Ms. Smith. Thank you very much. for attending tonight and making your voices heard this evening, appreciate it. |
| 02:10:05.61 | Tricia Smith | Thank you for all the hours that you guys put in. We appreciate it. And a big thank you to Mr. Silverstein. Really, it is a gift. It's a beautiful, beautiful gift. and the color, I was actually so moved to email Michael to say, oh my God, I mean the color, cause we have to put up with all the construction of that and now the Starbucks building, but the shingles that they chose, everything. I mean, it's beautiful. And when you look at the pictures that you were showing of it prior to the renovation, look at that i mean this really is the entrance to our city and i really appreciate the beauty of it so we will keep fighting for it, so thank you. |
| 02:10:42.77 | Kristina Feller | Thank you both. Thank you so much for taking the time to attend this evening and comment um your voices are important and it's definitely part of our process so thank you both Um, Any other comments at this time from the public, feel free to raise your hand in the Zoom application or star nine on your phone. |
| 02:11:07.95 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Seeing none, I will close public comment at this time and we will go into our deliberations and start with Commissioner Saad. |
| 02:11:21.25 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you, Chair Feller. I would just, I just have a few comments here. I think first and foremost, I definitely agree. It is an attractive building. I think it's been done very well. It's nice to see it move forward. I think the signage program after looking and I, find it to be compliant. I think it's a great idea. I don't think everyone should have to come back for every awning and sign change on that property moving forward, and hopefully can support getting some businesses ready to move in. I still... have issue with the fact that the signage went up. out of compliance, whether or not those circumstances, I'm sure are correct and understand with the scaffolding and the intention was not a bad intention, but, you know, as, as, Chair Feller called out, it's the same code, it's the same municipal code for everybody. And it's just not the right thing to do. So it's upsetting to see the people a little bit of a cavalier attitude towards putting up a sign for well knowing that it's just not compliant. So to put a pin in that for just a second, I like the sign. whether or not code compliant is separate. I do think, It's nice to go into a town and see the building history. I do like to go when you go downtown Larkspur, for example, in their historic district, and you look up, If you ever do, you do see quite a few of their buildings having their building dates on them. And I think the date alone is a great indicator of, you know, of the historic time period. I did listen to the entire, um, HPC hearing on this particular case. This, I had seen this project prior. I did want to hear their opinion. I do think, I'm not sure. I almost feel somewhat guilty saying it. I, if I was on the board at that time, if I was on the Hysteric Preservation Commission, I wouldn't, I would have disagreed with them as well. I do think that the, I understand their intention. There is a little bit of confusion, I think, between the concepts of, rehabilitation and restoration. I think the secretary of interior standards are clear on what rehabilitation is. This is almost a hybrid. of the two so I can I can understand where they're where they led to vote the way that they did. I think I too would have actually voted. I would have voted otherwise. I would have approved the sign. I think discovering the Chanel sign is a huge win for the property. I think that building has a longstanding history in that family and while. It may not be exact. It's a replication. It's a great indicator of what that building stands for. So overall I, would love to hear what everyone else thinks of course, but my main takeaway, if we focus really just quickly on their signage for them to move forward, I think the signage program is, I can make the findings for the signage program and I think I can make I think I can make the findings, oh sorry, excuse me, the findings otherwise. The last thing I'll just say in the historic design guidelines, and I happen to have a copy just because of my involvement with the HPC. So looking into that, you know, the awnings, everything sounds kosher in terms of the awnings, the signage, and they call out the I'm on. page am I on? I'm on page 55, but there's, you know, the Marin Fruit Company that, um, that signage is still imprinted into the building. I think my very first meeting on the HPC, when it was the HLB, we actually removed the Casa Madrona sign, but that was present. And before that, I think, you know, it was Village Fair. So I do think there's some space for these larger um, signs that are out of compliance size wise but I would hope that we can find some accommodation for them. |
| 02:15:39.70 | Kristina Feller | Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Commissioner Luxenberg. |
| 02:15:46.34 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Well, first of all, I appreciate what the applicant has done and renovating this building. I don't take issue with the signage. believe that in rereading the ordinance, which I reread five times, that it is the HBC's decision as much as I would prefer it wasn't. on this regard of So sending it back sounds like a possibility I concur with the applicant's request on number 13 that we change the language so it's absolutely clear a tenant meeting the size and font and all that doesn't have to come back because I think that was the intent. Uh... I would suggest that although I don't think that people should do stuff without permits, and I think we need to be strict about that. In this particular case, i don't think we should assess a penalty they they i don't think they thought ever thought the historic commission was ever going to deny this it wasn't like they made the historic made a decision and then they they put it up anyways they they made a decision and informed people that isn't the right process they should have waited but i understand why they wanted to get scaffolding down so i think in this particular case that we take out any language regarding a 27 2675 fine you just think it's punitive to the business community and i don't think we should do that uh i actually in reading the ordinance think this is a if we were going to go down the road of approving this subject to the HBC approval so it doesn't have to come back if we were going to go down that road. I actually believe this is a special sign i don't think it's a s exceptions i think it's an s special sign because it's creative and i don't think there are unusual circumstances regarding the location of the property i think it's a creative thing it reflects the history so i actually think that part of the ordinance uh is a better way to do this and i'm not 100 sure why why the staff is sort of leaning in the S exceptions rather than the S special signs because it seems to me that the case for the special signs was made. So that if we want to approve it subject to the HBC approving it, I think the special signs is a better way to go. The language to me fits better. But in any event, I think we should tonight at least approve the awning signs and the decks so that they can finish their construction and move that ahead and that we can hold back this. We can decide what to do on a separate piece, but at least tonight they at least get approvals and can move forward with all of those things. Those are my thoughts at the moment. |
| 02:18:52.81 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Commissioner Luxenberg. Commissioner Pierce. |
| 02:18:56.42 | Morgan Pierce | Yes, thank you Chair Feller and thank you to my fellow commissioners They're thoughtful comments. I am also able to make the findings for the design review permit and for the signage program as presented. Thank you. And I also appreciate that the applicant threw an unexpected discovery years ago has chosen to honor the legacy of this structure by offering this distinctive graphic expression on the exterior of the structure that recalls the building's history in our community. I recognize the HPC's decision not to include the iron roof line railing and the bronze plaque in their certificate of appropriateness. And I respect their decision to also not include the date sign and the Chanel's house wall signage on the building facade. And they cite the SOI standards which state, I won't go into that. But I do believe there is adequate evidence and adequate evidence original material left, to validate the inclusion of these signs within this application. You know, while it isn't a verbatim copy because now we have a dark building, it was a light building before. Um, It is a respectful representation of similar graphics originally displayed on that facade. And, It's very present does not imply a false sense of history. On the contrary, it's just a contemporary depiction of similar signage. and It doesn't adhere to specific terms of our sign argument regulation that does celebrate a unique historic passage. on a distinctive historic building. And I think that's something that we shouldn't uh, Neglect. Um, I don't recall verbatim the requested edits to the conditions. approval from the applicant and hopefully we can discuss those in detail, but I would add a condition, because I really like how the existing graphic is subtle and based on that historic photo, the unretouched one, there was a nice subtlety to the original wall graphic. I would add a condition approval stating that if any change to the color, or contrast of the existing painted graphic for the building. be proposed that that would be then subject to approval by the the HPC and the Planning Commission in the future. |
| 02:21:07.60 | Kristina Feller | Excellent point. Thank you. Thank you very much, Commissioner Pierce. You've touched on a lot of important things there. Vice Chair Graff. |
| 02:21:17.29 | Richard Graef | Um, Thank you. you Well, let's see. I think the overall sign program is well thought out. that's appropriate. I have no quarrel with it whatsoever. Also, I think the treatment of the building in the back. is certainly sensible. All the improvements are make a lot of sense. And I just want to really emphasize my support for the concept of the Schnell-Past sign. I think it's brilliant. I think it's beautiful. I think There are plenty of good reasons to advocate for it. And so I just want to voice my support. I think it's... I think the whole program is really quite well done, and I really appreciate the efforts from the applicant and from the Michael Rex, I think, you know. compliment them on the on the job altogether. Let's try to find a way to make that happen. That's my two cents. |
| 02:22:30.00 | Kristina Feller | Right. Thank you very much. Yes, Commissioner Pearson. |
| 02:22:32.33 | Morgan Pierce | Sorry Commissioner, Sheriff Feller, I neglected to add one thing. reiterate something Commissioner Luxenberg said about trying to find the language in the code that would allow this effort to not have to return back to the HPC and allow this body to approve this. It seems like this project has just gone through a laborious exercise of futility to get where it is now. And I believe that they've had the intent to go through and... |
| 02:22:55.79 | Unknown | the board. |
| 02:23:04.43 | Morgan Pierce | do the right approvals. And I would hate to send them back to another turn of the wheel. So if there's some way we can, you know, obviously we've looked at, we have different opinions on how the language reads and how it applies to the sign that we can find a way to get to the finish line, I would be fully supportive of it. |
| 02:23:24.22 | Kristina Feller | Appreciate that comment, thank you. I had a couple thoughts here. And again, I appreciate all the comments that my fellow commissioners here have said You've taken a lot of thoughts out of my mind and you've actually added a couple in as well. That's one of the wonderful things about this type of public process. and the discussion that we're having here along with the applicant and staff I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THIS. First of all, I can make the findings. So I want to put that aside right away. For all the reasons that everyone's already stated, I don't need to go through them again. But I also think that this is a wonderful opportunity we're talking about some signage on on the building uh the Schnell house Schnell's house and and the date But, What? let's kind of get out of just this project and look at the context of of this building and where it sits and the history of this whole downtown area, not just this building, but the whole downtown. It, this ha this property sits in such a wonderful location. And it really is a greeting into the, The main part of Bridgeway, let's say. But it also sits across from you know, rebuilt and new new construction that of course mimics the old historic, working within the context of what was possibly there before, but it isn't an exact replica. |
| 02:25:01.37 | Barbara Herzig | It is a very good thing. |
| 02:25:04.00 | Kristina Feller | of what's there. This building, I mean, if we have even the original, you know, sideboards on it, which it sounds like we do, I think this is pretty incredible. there's anything wrong with the whispering of the history in such a subtle way with the signage. I actually think it adds so much to the downtown. And, and I would love to find a way to work around our ordinances to, to make sure that, that this is as painless as possible because. because this is part of the history. It's more historical than a lot of things that are down there. now. And the fact that, the historic committee predating the commission had really requested this is a new piece of information that I think is really quite critical. And I think that if there's some sort of further evidence of that or any additional information about what might have been there or uncovered in the 80s when the Stucco came off, et cetera. I mean, this just helps justify and support everything that I think that we're already saying. I'm not sure. I agree, Commissioner Pierce, with your recommendation completely. that in the future should, the current owner or a future owner want to change the colouring of the siding or the lettering that that needs to be re-looked at because I think the subtlety of it is part of what makes it so |
| 02:26:43.25 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 02:26:43.65 | Kristina Feller | successful. And it's not really in your face. I think it's a wonderful piece of the fabric that's woven into this downtown that we're trying so hard to celebrate. Thank you. And we're trying so hard to be consistent about the historic integrity in a modern age. that we're all in now. And so I think that this is pretty pretty important. And so. Um, I appreciate the support. Mr. Rexha comment about number 13, as Commissioner Luxembourg said, regarding the wording of sort of the master standards of whatever the signage might be, the lettering, the font size, whatever that might be. I don't have any issue with that at all. I would like to uh, go over the 1B1 and 2 again to make sure that this commission that we have some consensus one way or the other about Those comments or any other comments that we might have, but I totally support Commissioner Pierce, your addition to the condition of approval here. Um, So that's really where I fall. Um, The final thing is, and I've said it before I sound like a broken record. I know, but, but please. Do not. violate the city's process and permitting procedures. Don't come back and ask for forgiveness later on and then moan about the cost and this and that. I appreciate. your thought process. And I'm not trying to be overly punitive, but please. for this applicant and any other applicant in the future, please do not do that. We do not, we frown greatly on that as does the city. So please let's not do that again. Um, So with that, Commissioners, any other thoughts or comments I'm inclined to possibly ask our community development director and our city attorney to help us try to find a way of how to interpret what we need to hear because it is not clear There is a lot of gray area and I'd like to ask for their assistance or guidance in that regard. |
| 02:29:12.94 | Mary Wagner | You want me to jump in there, Lily, or? So I hear you and I appreciate all of the commission's concerns and I appreciate the applicants frustration. The code section I do believe is clear with respect to the sign in the historic district. And it says it shall receive a certificate of appropriateness. I think your staff has done a really good job of trying to figure out a path forward that involves the least amount of additional process. should the commission want to approve the other parts of the project, allow the sign portion with this new information that's been discussed this evening with the commission's input on how they feel about the importance of the sign to return to the HPC as soon as we can. with that very narrow question for them to review. And then I believe your community development director also crafted a way so that that then does not have to return back to you. So that it could be. if the commission, if the HPC agrees, that could be the final action and your condition of approval would say that once that happens, it's ready to go. So that, I believe, is your best path forward, given the constraints that we're working within. |
| 02:30:35.41 | Kristina Feller | Excellent. Okay. Community Development Director, do you have anything to add? |
| 02:30:42.77 | Director Whalen | sure thanks thanks mary and we we have uh drafted a condition for the planning commission's consideration um christy can bring it up on the screen when the commission's ready to look at that and that condition basically says if the HPC issues this certificate of appropriateness, then the sign would not need to come back for modification by the planning commission as long as the sign isn't modified by the Historic Preservation Commission. So the Planning Commission could talk about that if modifications are made if you're comfortable with whatever modifications are made by the HPC. Thank you. You don't need to see the sign again. You can make that clear in your condition. or you can consider the language that we have in the um, condition on the screen here. |
| 02:31:28.15 | Kristina Feller | All right, so let's just take a minute quickly to read through this. and then we can discuss |
| 02:32:01.44 | Kristina Feller | Director Whelan does 60 days. from I guess today, should we, be able to make a resolution Um, what... Is there a statutory requirement behind the 60 days or is that an arbitrary? Time dreams. |
| 02:32:20.32 | Director Whalen | We were anticipating bringing this to the HPC just as soon as we can, if the commission goes in this direction. |
| 02:32:26.69 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 02:32:26.72 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:32:26.84 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 02:32:26.91 | Kristina Feller | It's a great day. |
| 02:32:29.84 | Director Whalen | and I think that's a great thing. So ideally I was thinking within a month. However, because the HPC meets only once a month, I wanted to give ourselves a little bit of a buffer there in order to get this to a hearing. |
| 02:32:46.67 | Jeffery Luxenberg | And can I comment on this as a possible chair fellow? |
| 02:32:50.38 | Kristina Feller | Absolutely, please Commissioner Luxembourg, please do. |
| 02:32:52.91 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I'd like to suggest a slightly different approach than this, but accomplishing the same goal, I think. I think we're making this way too complicated. I think that We write that we approve the we approved the signage and the rest of the package. We made the findings for that. I think we further make the findings for the sign I'm suggesting under special signs and indicate rather than this sort of convoluted going back and forth and they have to hold a hearing, that we approved the sign subject to them receiving a certificate of appropriateness we hereby revert back using the language that's in here which is it says that we can send it back we just quote that language exactly to the Historic Preservation Commission for their reconsideration in the event they approve it, then all the findings have been made or something we refer back. And then the second is if it's not granted, it shall be removed. We take out all this stuff about fines and going to the city council to waive the fines and we just take all of that out i don't think it's necessary here i think we've made a point of telling everybody publicly don't do this again in the future i don't think they had any malice here uh i and i it just sounds like if they if they change it it has to come back or whatever if they they they gonna go, it's gonna be approved as is, or it's not gonna be approved at all. I don't think we wanna get into it's approved with a different color or a different, I mean, we're putting too many things. It's either gonna be approved or it's not gonna be approved. If it's approved, we make the findings for a special sign and there's no reason to come back. If it's not approved, it has to be removed. We just make it simple. This is just much too hard. |
| 02:34:58.07 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, I think that's a good point. The other question just to add on to Commissioner Luxembourg if I may is. you know, part of what we're also asking for is assuming that there is official evidence that this historic landmark board had I'm not sure. previously not just approved this, but requested this signage that that be upheld. |
| 02:35:27.37 | Kristina Feller | Is that possible, Director Whelan? |
| 02:35:32.77 | Director Whalen | Can you repeat the, the, request for a condition of approval. again. Sorry, turn it off. |
| 02:35:40.60 | Kristina Feller | just to add on to Commissioner Luxenberg I mean to really simplify it part of what Part of what we're asking for because we're in essence approving it. I think there's consensus here if I can speak for everybody in that regard. I'm not sure. with our sentiments here. We're asking the Historic Preservation Commission to go back and we're asking them to uphold what the historic, what is it? What was it the landmark? Historic landmarks board. Yeah. what they had previously recommended and requested, which is the signage. should there be evidence that that is in fact what they had identified. |
| 02:36:27.80 | Director Whalen | So what I might recommend for the commission is, to direct staff to include all the information that we can find from that period of time and present that to the Historic Preservation Commission during their review of this sign. |
| 02:36:43.56 | Kristina Feller | we would. I can certainly direct and request staff to do so. And please also work with the applicant. to see if they have any information from the circa 1980s time when the stucco came down, if there's any evidence that they saw the signage on the original wood siding, if there's any evidence of that. Those two things combined, I think will be very helpful with the appeal to HPC. Thank you. |
| 02:37:18.98 | Director Whalen | Thank you, Chair Feller. One comment that I did have regarding the penalty, the fees and fines, is that the body that can waive those fees and fines is the city council. And so that's how, that's why we structured the way that we structured it, and even though it's a It's a lot of words there, but the staff doesn't have the ability to waive those fines the planning commission doesn't have the ability to waive the fine so that's how we we structured it we know that the applicant has indicated to us that they would like to pursue a waiver with the city council. And so that's how we included that into the condition. |
| 02:37:59.88 | Kristina Feller | And I think if they want to pursue that waiver, then that's absolutely what, is there right to do? Again, I don't want to be rewarding people for not following the procedures, protocols, and permitting but based on what we've heard so far in this isolated incident, I could support what Commissioner Luxembourg has identified. |
| 02:38:25.92 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I'm not sure we have to put in the conditions that there's fines and there's enforcement. If you want to take an enforcement action against them, then go take the enforcement action against them. I don't see why it has to be. in this approval. I understand that you can do an enforcement. I don't see why it needs to be in this particular position. I don't see why it needs to be in this particular document at this particular time so if you want to take an enforcement action and force them to go to the city council for a waiver then do it but i don't see why we have to put it in here it seems punitive it seems inappropriate they indicated they contacted the city i don't think i think they should have been told that you're uh it's what really bothers me about this language and I agree with a lot of stuff people are saying about you know we need to be friendly to the business community or this community is going to die is that in the event you go get an approval, we're going to assess you a penalty. It's encouraging them not to go get the approval. That's the way this is worded. and again that could be reworded so it says that we're going to assess this penalty no matter what but it sort of says if they approve it then you have to pay this penalty and if you don't pay this penalty uh we're going to uh we're not going to give you a building permit to let you move ahead with your other signage and so i think the tone of this is just awful and i and i also don't believe it needs to be in this document, but if you want to, you have the enforcement authority, you can enforce this without us putting it in this approval. |
| 02:39:55.04 | Richard Graef | That's right. |
| 02:39:55.43 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:40:10.73 | Kristina Feller | So at this point commissioner Luxembourg, because this body can't waive or whatever, we can only make recommendations on a process I would ask that our city attorney and our community development director um take take that on or advise the applicant one way or the other how they can pursue a waiver. |
| 02:40:38.52 | Director Whalen | If I can, Chair Feller, we have been working with the applicant on that and this might help the commission Um, consideration of the item tonight. we typically would require the penalty fee be paid when the application is submitted. That's our typical process is all fees need to be paid. We worked with this particular applicant and we agreed that we would not assess the penalty fee because we understood that they would be asking for a waiver of the city council. And so we were working with them on not requiring them to pay the fee at the moment right now. We were attempting to document that through the resolution because that makes it I'm not sure. you know frankly a lot easier for staff during code enforcement actions to have that documented in the resolution so that was the attempt it does not need to be in the resolution if the planning commission decides that they you would like to take it out |
| 02:41:30.94 | Kristina Feller | I think whatever is going to assist staff and the applicant, that's the goal here. So I'm gonna leave that and defer to you. I don't wanna debate this too long. We've made our voices clear. I want to... if we can, if anyone has any further comment on that, I want to get to sort of some of the language in some of these other, potential exceptions or modifications to language in terms of approval. including and signage and font and style and all of that. Is that okay with everybody? or are there any further comments on this? I mean, Commissioner Luxenberg, can we? Can we move to that? |
| 02:42:16.20 | Jeffery Luxenberg | We can move to that. I'm just, I'm a little unclear how we're going to approve this without seeing language, and I don't want to not approve it tonight. So I'm a little concerned about this. |
| 02:42:27.22 | Kristina Feller | Right. Well, that's, that's why we're going to get to some of these other pieces in the language that we need to get to. |
| 02:42:31.05 | Jeffery Luxenberg | we need to. |
| 02:42:32.77 | Richard Graef | I'm going to go. |
| 02:42:32.85 | Kristina Feller | you because they're all part of |
| 02:42:33.09 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 02:42:35.70 | Kristina Feller | for all part of what We're is in front of us this evening to approve um, So, Commissioner Pierce said it was language around the siding and signage color and the, Um, I guess, tones between the two. that we've not. |
| 02:42:57.08 | Richard Graef | Contrast. |
| 02:42:57.95 | Kristina Feller | the contrast, thank you. that we want to make sure that we captured in condition of approval. |
| 02:43:04.66 | Tricia Smith | you |
| 02:43:05.67 | Kristina Feller | And that's tied Director Whalen to obviously our support and advocacy for the signage. the Chanel's house signage. and the year. |
| 02:43:21.62 | Director Whalen | If I may suggest that we bring up the resolution and edit it right now for you, since it looks like that's not. |
| 02:43:30.19 | Kristina Feller | Sure, whatever works out. |
| 02:43:31.19 | Director Whalen | I think that would be easiest to make sure that we capture the commission's |
| 02:43:34.80 | Kristina Feller | Whatever makes it easier, we're just gonna, we're gonna go through these and make sure that we're documented and then move on. |
| 02:43:42.53 | Director Whalen | Christy, do you mind bringing up the Word version so that you can edit? with the commission here and share screening |
| 02:43:49.63 | Maria | Thank you. |
| 02:43:55.81 | Christy Usher | It's gonna take me a moment to get it off the server here. |
| 02:44:10.49 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Let's look into attachment to here. |
| 02:44:48.12 | Kristina Feller | So Director Whelan, are you suggesting that we're pulling up the attachment to conditions of approval? and amend everything in there. |
| 02:44:56.44 | Director Whalen | the condition just adding the conditions that you'd like to add and modifying the conditions that you'd like to modify yeah |
| 02:45:01.66 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:45:02.15 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 02:45:02.18 | Kristina Feller | it. |
| 02:45:09.49 | Kristina Feller | Okay, great. There we go. Thank you. Christy. Okay. So I think Um, I know the applicant had an issue with 1B1 here. starting if the Historic Preservation Commission reverses their decision and issues COA. That was the first one. |
| 02:45:41.41 | Kristina Feller | I would advocate that the applicant does not need to come back to the planning commission. |
| 02:45:48.32 | Nastassya Saad | I definitely agree. Yeah. |
| 02:45:53.18 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 02:45:53.19 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 02:45:53.29 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I mean, A is going away, correct? |
| 02:45:53.33 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 02:45:53.43 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 02:45:53.58 | Nastassya Saad | and, you know, the |
| 02:45:55.81 | Director Whalen | but it's all the way. Yes, I think we can remove a Yeah. |
| 02:45:58.98 | Jeffery Luxenberg | A goes away. |
| 02:46:03.54 | Jeffery Luxenberg | and then somehow we have to discuss the PRU has two parts. We're proving everything bought and then the other stuff is going back. This has to be framed in that way. I got. |
| 02:46:21.14 | Kristina Feller | I didn't quite follow you there, Commissioner Luxenberg. |
| 02:46:24.02 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Okay, so this approval specifically excludes the following features. Um, it, Thank you. I WANT US TO SPECIFICALLY APPROVE everything but those features. And I want us to approve those features subject to a reconsideration and issuance of a permit by the historic uh, Preservation Commission, which makes this much more straightforward and makes it very clear that we approve this, as opposed to this sort of back and forth |
| 02:46:57.18 | Kristina Feller | I think everyone agrees on that. |
| 02:46:59.58 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Okay, so... |
| 02:47:00.64 | Kristina Feller | Thanks, Karla. Thank you. |
| 02:47:01.32 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 02:47:01.37 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:47:01.47 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 02:47:02.26 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:47:02.28 | Christy Usher | That's our option too, right? Let me, so that's, this option here, although I know Luxembourg, you want this process not as an exception. Um, But this option here is what says it refers it back to It will not require a Planning Commission hearing. |
| 02:47:26.65 | Director Whalen | So you need to do a new screen share. |
| 02:47:28.17 | Christy Usher | I'm sorry. |
| 02:47:28.96 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:47:28.96 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I don't see, I don't know what we're talking about. |
| 02:47:28.99 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 02:47:30.76 | Kristina Feller | Hold on, he's putting it out. for you. And so Christy, I think what you've just described is, |
| 02:47:34.43 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 02:47:38.44 | Kristina Feller | I believe what I've heard and I don't want to lead the witness here with any commissioner I think. I saw everybody either agree or nod their heads. that um, if HBC awards the COA, that it does not need to come back to the Planning Commission. So we are all agreeing. Yes. Thank you. |
| 02:47:59.70 | Christy Usher | Yeah. |
| 02:47:59.96 | Kristina Feller | Yeah. |
| 02:47:59.98 | Christy Usher | Don't come back to us. Okay, great. So that's what this option says. So let me just get this in our resolution here and we'll strike these. So we'll add this one. |
| 02:48:20.61 | Christy Usher | So it's saying the excluded features are referred back to HPC. It says if the HPC reverses their decision and issues the COA, then the excluded feature shall become part of the Planning Commission's approval. |
| 02:48:37.13 | Maria | year. |
| 02:48:37.49 | Christy Usher | Thank you. and will not require a public hearing. So I think that's what you want to do. |
| 02:48:42.35 | Maria | That's correct. |
| 02:48:43.29 | Christy Usher | Great. Okay. And then did you want to look at this condition 13 about kind of make specifying the sign program? Hold on, Chris. |
| 02:48:55.49 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. before you move on. I think that tied to this, is what Commissioner Pierce had mentioned about a condition that we wanna put on that once this signage is, approved and the COA is issued by HPC, assuming that it is. We want language in our conditions of approval. that the contrast between the exterior skin color and the Chanel's house signage. or stenciling. Um, What would you say, Commissioner Pears? |
| 02:49:37.60 | Morgan Pierce | I said, any changes... to the color or contrast of the existing graphic and or its background is subject to approval by the planning |
| 02:49:47.08 | Kristina Feller | Yeah. Yeah, there you go. |
| 02:49:52.78 | Kristina Feller | Well said. |
| 02:49:59.35 | Morgan Pierce | Can Christy add to the painted sign or background? after contrast. color contrast of the painted sign or to its background. |
| 02:50:12.92 | Maria | Thank you. |
| 02:50:14.43 | Morgan Pierce | be subject to approval. |
| 02:50:16.36 | Maria | Yeah. |
| 02:50:21.88 | Director Whalen | Right. Just for clarification, the painted sign is the the Schnell's house sign. Yeah. Yes. |
| 02:50:26.69 | Richard Graef | No. |
| 02:50:31.39 | Director Whalen | If I could ask Chair Feller for one more point of clarification with regard to now Condition. Well, it's, it's, uh, It says it's three sum I right now. We'll reformat this. there's two items in here I want, I would like some clarification on. The first is right kind of in the middle of this is If there are changes to the sign, I know that the commission's had a little bit of that discussion. We wanted to include this in here in case there are changes so that there is a path, there's a clear path forward one way or the other. If the planning commission is okay with changes to the sign that are approved by the historic preservation commission and you don't want to see those changes again, then we can make that clear in this condition. And even if the sign is modified, If it's approved with a certificate of appropriateness, then it doesn't need to come back to the Planning Commission. Alternatively, you the Planning Commission could require that if there are changes to the sign, then it But we do think it's important to clarify that in this condition so that everyone understands what path forward. there would be. |
| 02:51:43.97 | Morgan Pierce | I would offer Chair Feller that I personally don't feel comfortable with it going forth with changes, not knowing what the scope of those changes might be. |
| 02:51:51.79 | Kristina Feller | A hundred percent. It sort of defeats the purpose of what we're trying to do here. |
| 02:51:55.13 | Morgan Pierce | right? |
| 02:51:56.27 | Kristina Feller | So, yeah, no, if there are significant changes or really any major change, then, yeah, it needs to come back. |
| 02:51:57.49 | Unknown | No. |
| 02:52:05.27 | Kristina Feller | But again, we're advocating what's there is approved. |
| 02:52:08.73 | Unknown | Mm. |
| 02:52:09.39 | Kristina Feller | because it captures the spirit and the intent of the original signage or historic signage, let's say I don't I can't I don't know if it's original Um, That's what we want. |
| 02:52:25.18 | Director Whalen | Thank you, if that's a direction from the full commission, I think we understand that. |
| 02:52:30.65 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 02:52:30.68 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 02:52:30.70 | Nastassya Saad | I agree. |
| 02:52:30.82 | Director Whalen | I agree. |
| 02:52:31.34 | Nastassya Saad | Yes, I definitely agree. Commissioner Watson-Berg. |
| 02:52:34.85 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I'm still confused completely about This... Everything keeps going around in circles. That was mentioned by the public tonight. Thank you. We need to approve In other words, this says it will become part of this approval. But this approval needs to move ahead. They need to be able to get a building permit and install the awning signs tomorrow if they're able to do it. And this language doesn't seem to acknowledge that they can move ahead. I want to make it clear that they can move ahead with the awnings. If the historic thing ends up taking four months because they can't do it in 60 days or they don't get a hearing or it gets moved or whatever, that whatever is approved is approved. And we're sending back for reconsideration these two things, the 1878 sign and the Schnell's house sign. And if they issue a certificate of appropriateness, then it's whatever. And I'm gonna ask for an amendment to take out this penalty and I'll probably gonna be voted down, but I'm gonna still ask. I don't think it belongs in this particular case at this particular time, I'm sorry. |
| 02:53:30.79 | Richard Graef | Bye. |
| 02:53:30.98 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:53:51.41 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Okay, so I think that Tom |
| 02:53:51.55 | Kristina Feller | Okay, so I think that |
| 02:53:53.59 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 02:53:53.61 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:53:53.64 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 02:53:53.66 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. I think staff has highlighted something here to help um, help clarify what we're doing here. So all of the findings that are in front of us this evening regarding awnings and the signage included in awnings and so on Um, I believe that we have unanimously been able to make all of the findings. |
| 02:54:17.72 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. Is it an item one maybe? These are all conditions. |
| 02:54:22.40 | Kristina Feller | Israel. Right. And then separately, and then separately. |
| 02:54:27.10 | Kristina Feller | Right. |
| 02:54:28.56 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Where does it say that? I don't see that. |
| 02:54:28.72 | Kristina Feller | Bye. Hold on. Separately, we're talking about sending... these items, these two items back to HPC. So, They're separated. we're approving everything else and we can vote on that. We can, we can do all of that and then These other things which we do not have the authority um, to do. have to go back to HPC. And that's part of these conditions here. Everything else they can go ahead with. |
| 02:55:07.70 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Where do we show that this, on what basis of zoning this is approved on? Where is that? |
| 02:55:14.54 | Kristina Feller | which part commissioner luxembourg what part |
| 02:55:17.56 | Jeffery Luxenberg | So are we approving it under S exceptions or S special signs and where do we describe how that we've done |
| 02:55:26.89 | Kristina Feller | Oh, you want, so. what we're sending back to the HPC, you want us to identify how we're interpreting the code, is that correct? |
| 02:55:36.59 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I don't, I'm not, it's not so much what we send back to the HPC. What I think we're doing here, maybe I'm wrong, is we're approving, we're approving the sign based on when I'm suggesting one provision, and Lily suggested another provision, but we're approving the sign based on the zoning. subject to getting that COA. And it's the Historic Preservation Commission's job to determine whether they want to reconsider it or whether they, well, they have to reconsider it but they can make a decision to approve it or not approve it. They can approve it. their advisory, they have no authority to approve the sign based on a provision of the zoning. That's the planning commission's job. So somewhere in this, all this language there, we have to define that. And I'm trying to look back to the findings to see where we approved this sign because we were assuming it was being excluded. |
| 02:56:34.48 | Kristina Feller | I think Commissioner Luxembourg I think director Whalen has has those sections that where she's interpreting it. So director Whalen. |
| 02:56:45.60 | Director Whalen | Thank you, Chair Beller. And so, Christy, do you mind scrolling up in the resolution? So this is just the conditions of approval component, all the way up, Christy, all the way to the top. Yeah. first detachment of the resolution, The first attachment is the findings that are approving all of the remaining signage, everything that the applicant has proposed with the exception of the Schnell's house sign and what we were thinking if the planning commission was inclined to approve the sign. is, that so we included in the staff report an analysis of the exception findings and how those could be supported. And so if the Planning Commission's inclined to approve the sign, we would put those findings in the findings section of the resolution. |
| 02:57:44.27 | Maria | Perfect. Perfect. |
| 02:57:46.03 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Thank you. help you. |
| 02:57:52.62 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yes, I think it should be here, but it also refers to 060 and 070. And I'm suggesting that it comes under 070, rather than it comes under 060, and I think we need, to be clear, I mean, I think that this, you know, and it might help the historic preservation commission to know that we think it's a special sign or we don't think it's a special sign. And there are findings, there are different findings you have to make, whether it's under 060 or 070. We have to define unusual circumstance in regard to location if it's 060, And under 070, the Planning Commission, has to contribute to the vitality of the historic overlay district. This language has to go, I agree with that it has to go in this section, but it has to be written. I mean, it can't just be anything. |
| 02:58:52.34 | Kristina Feller | I think, I think, um, director Whalen, you, you have, you have the sections that you're using for HPC. And, Commissioner Luxembourg, if you if your idea is different than what the Community Development Director has identified, then that's all we that's what we want to hear from you. Um, so we can make this a little bit easier and straightforward this evening. So, Are you, Are you quoting? our municipal code 10, 42 70 instead of 60? |
| 02:59:31.95 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yes. Thank you. |
| 02:59:33.40 | Kristina Feller | Yeah. |
| 02:59:34.35 | Jeffery Luxenberg | And in this finding quotes both of them, but I am quoting 70. I mean, I guess I'm agreeing with the applicant's argument on 70. as opposed to the applicant's argument on 60. He made both arguments, but I think it's a special sign. It's a message to send to the Historic Preservation Commission that we believe it fits within the zoning. They then have to interpret the Secretary of Interior Standards to see if they concur that it can be done under the Secretary of Interior Standards. I understand what their role is different than our role. |
| 03:00:09.85 | Kristina Feller | Okay, all right, so Director Whelan, I just, you know, you know, consideration of everyone's time, because Commissioner Luxenberg, we don't always go into this level of detail with every applicant, as you know, I think we have the two sections that we need. And I would like to direct staff. to prepare this and add both references in here. which is fine. There's no reason that you can't use both. |
| 03:00:47.42 | Kristina Feller | Lily, I'm looking. |
| 03:00:49.19 | Christy Usher | Yeah, so I would just insert the findings for the exception. So I'm under the findings here for the sign permit and the resolution. So if we want to go with both, I inserted the exception one, and I can go ahead and disvalment that below with the other code section. |
| 03:01:05.94 | Kristina Feller | THE FAMILY. |
| 03:01:09.96 | Kristina Feller | man. |
| 03:01:10.13 | Maria | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 03:01:10.16 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 03:01:10.21 | Maria | Thank you. |
| 03:01:16.44 | Maria | Great. |
| 03:01:17.20 | Christy Usher | OK. And then we can add those ad findings. um, If they want to prompt me with that verbiage, Commissioner Luxenberg, or we can do that later, but this is how it would be documented formally as |
| 03:01:30.53 | Christy Usher | Thank you. |
| 03:01:35.14 | Christy Usher | you express concern that Um, things stays clear. as possible to keep the project moving. |
| 03:01:44.27 | Jeffery Luxenberg | If it's just nuance, I can see it later. It doesn't. That's fine. As long as they're both listed, I'm not sure. |
| 03:01:52.45 | Kristina Feller | Right. That solves that. Okay. |
| 03:02:05.83 | Kristina Feller | Okay. any let's get back to um |
| 03:02:14.41 | Kristina Feller | the rest of this. |
| 03:02:14.56 | Christy Usher | of the |
| 03:02:15.10 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 03:02:15.71 | Christy Usher | Do you wanna rate us at 13 was a condition of approval? I think the last one. the one in Tomofka. maybe a little more clearly specified that if assigned permit application complied with the program, it could be approved without going back to |
| 03:02:34.57 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 03:02:35.40 | Christy Usher | So let's look at that wording. |
| 03:02:38.88 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, and I recognize while Christie, you're scrolling there. |
| 03:02:39.16 | Christy Usher | And I was like, No. |
| 03:02:43.72 | Kristina Feller | that there are a couple hands here in the audience and I'd just like to note that public comments. is closed and we had the last comments from the applicant so this is our deliberation time. This is where we're making our findings and we'll, um, take a vote here shortly. |
| 03:03:06.67 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Can I get a clarification on what was just said about this? Are we, we're not intending the tenant to come back uh, to even the planning department. If a new tenant comes in, do they have to submit something, or can they just change the sign? |
| 03:03:26.80 | Maria | Thank you. |
| 03:03:26.83 | Nastassya Saad | They should just- I thought the idea was that could just- They would just change the sign. We're approving the signage program. So if it's within compliance, |
| 03:03:27.16 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I thought the idea was that could just |
| 03:03:35.15 | Nastassya Saad | of the signage program, it doesn't come back to us. |
| 03:03:38.58 | Jeffery Luxenberg | It doesn't come back to the Planning Commission, but I got that the applicant would submit it and it would be approved. I understood it wouldn't even have to come in at all. I mean, we... So that's an important clarification. |
| 03:03:52.40 | Kristina Feller | As long as it, it follows the design standards. for signage, the font, the size, whatever |
| 03:03:59.35 | Barbara Herzig | Whatever. |
| 03:04:00.40 | Kristina Feller | then that's on them they don't have to keep coming back to the city that's They don't need to be doing that. |
| 03:04:07.81 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Okay, that's what I thought, but then I just heard they would submit to the planning department if it was okay. Yeah, they don't have to submit it at all. |
| 03:04:14.47 | Christy Usher | Bye. Sure. Thank you. I guess I was thinking they would submit for building permit and then that would get routed to planning and then planning would verify it performs with the same program. So, and then it would just be approved at the staff level. So that was sort of my. what I was thinking as I just articulated |
| 03:04:32.56 | Maria | . |
| 03:04:32.65 | Christy Usher | . |
| 03:04:33.03 | Morgan Pierce | That was my understanding. |
| 03:04:33.56 | Christy Usher | Thank you. |
| 03:04:35.47 | Maria | You mean if they need a conditional use permit? No, you're going to need like a building permit. |
| 03:04:38.03 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yeah. |
| 03:04:41.76 | Maria | Well, yeah. |
| 03:04:43.57 | Jeffery Luxenberg | But let's assume they don't need a building permit. They just come in and they occupy the space without changing the building whatsoever. Do they have to come in? I mean, we're getting an impression that we're not very business friendly. I, you know, if the idea is that they just come in and, you know, it was a gift, such and such gift shop and another gift shop goes in there and they put their name up, This is an important distinction. Do they need to come in and request a building permit just to put their name on the awning, or can they just put their name on the awning? I think this is an important clarification. I just want to make sure that we're giving you the guidance. That's correct, because you're saying one thing, and I'm hearing something else from some of the other Thank you. |
| 03:05:29.33 | Morgan Pierce | The blue ball signs require a sign permit. unless it's a temporary sign. Right. |
| 03:05:36.40 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 03:05:36.94 | Morgan Pierce | Oh. |
| 03:05:37.48 | Kristina Feller | I just want to note, Commissioner Luxenberg, that we are here to follow municipal codes and the ordinances and so on. If you, yeah, I don't necessarily believe that we were so business unfriendly. Not everyone has had a perfect experience, but I don't business unfriendly, but that goes back to, if we need to modify the municipal code then that's a completely different discussion that I don't think we should be talking about at this time. We can agendize that separately. because it does deserve its own conversation, but let's not misconstrue that with the applicant and the application in front of us for this evening. |
| 03:06:19.82 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I just want a simple question. I don't want to change the municipal code. Somebody comes in and wants to put lettering on an honor. per our approval this evening, do they have to submit something to the city or and pay a fee or whatever, or do they just, if as long as the letters meet everything we're getting approved, Can they just go and get the same people that did the awning to do that? I'm just asking for clarification. I'm not trying to change the law or anything. I'm just trying to understand what, my understanding of what the applicant was requesting was that somebody could come in and we have no building names. So we're approving this evening, no tenant can put up a sign at all right now because there's no names on it. |
| 03:07:07.58 | Kristina Feller | So, the least. music. There's no name. Director Whalen can you set this straight please so we don't keep going back to this. |
| 03:07:16.03 | Director Whalen | THE END OF THE END OF THE Thank you. sure so staff's intent was exactly what commissioner luxembourg is describing that the commission approves the sign program. If the tenant comes in and they, adhere to the same program they don't need a planning approval from the planning department of course if they need a building permit then they would get their building permit I'm talking more globally about different types of permits and then planning staff would verify that the program the sign is in conformance with the sign program. What I might suggest is the commission making that clear in this. condition here that the If there is Tenant signage could be swapped out as long as it conforms with the sign program in terms of the lettering, size, color. et cetera. unless a building permit is required that signage can be Um, replaced and swapped out. What I might also suggest is that we as planning staff put a memo in the file for this address. And as tenants come in and get their occupational use permit, we can refer on the Occupational Use Permit that to the sign program and that signage is approved per the sign program. They don't need a special permit as long as they conform with the sign program. |
| 03:08:40.59 | Kristina Feller | I would support that. That sounds good. if you're okay great. Commissioner Saad are you good with that? |
| 03:08:47.86 | Director Whalen | Yeah, that's a great idea. |
| 03:08:49.42 | Kristina Feller | Commissioner Pierce. |
| 03:08:50.80 | Director Whalen | I'm good with that. |
| 03:08:51.36 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Commissioner Luxembourg? the result. Okay. |
| 03:08:59.02 | Nastassya Saad | So I don't mean to belabor this, but Commissioner Luxembourg has made a good point here. So I understand the signage program. as a whole. but are we then saying director Whalen that it's an administrative review or there is no administrative review if we're swapping out? without any other permits required. |
| 03:09:23.96 | Director Whalen | I think the commission can be clear on what direction you would like this to go. It's not specified in the municipal code as far as the process. I have a question. |
| 03:09:33.49 | Richard Graef | Um, for our planning director. Hmm. um, What if somebody down the street, uh, moves out, somebody else moves in, all they want to do is they just want to change their name on an existing awning. It's not this project, it's some other project. How is that handled? ordinary circumstance. |
| 03:10:05.00 | Director Whalen | It depends on the location of the business. If it's in the downtown historic district, any and all signage requires a certificate of appropriateness from the historic preservation. |
| 03:10:15.06 | Richard Graef | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 03:10:15.46 | Director Whalen | and |
| 03:10:15.72 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 03:10:15.77 | Director Whalen | and then sign permit from the planning commission I think that the way that the applicant has framed this application is in terms of the sign program, is to expedite that, right? So the tenants can come in and out and the lettering has already been reviewed and approved. And so as long as it's consistent, they can. |
| 03:10:28.14 | Maria | Thank you. |
| 03:10:28.17 | Richard Graef | Bye. |
| 03:10:28.37 | Maria | you |
| 03:10:34.53 | Director Whalen | I'm going to swap it out. |
| 03:10:35.81 | Richard Graef | So it's just really a matter of making sure that I don't know. that somebody doesn't misinterpret the intent of the program. Um, So who polices this? |
| 03:10:51.96 | Nastassya Saad | Exactly. Where's the oversight then? And maybe that's what Director Whalen is saying if we want to say it's an administrative review or not, but if we don't put an administrative review to comply with the signage program, who looks at it? |
| 03:10:54.33 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 03:11:04.91 | Kristina Feller | Well, wouldn't it be part of the conditional use permit or their use permit is as long as they are following the signage program. as part of their application. then the enforcement is as it usually is with the city. |
| 03:11:23.43 | Morgan Pierce | They wouldn't have necessarily any other application if they're just another permitted use coming in. It's just a different tenant, right? If they're not doing any changes, then they don't necessarily have to come. into the city but I think what we're saying is we want to make sure that they're adhering to what we're outlining here and so there has to be some sort of administrative Screw me. at the counter or however. And so that would be them submitting some sort of piece of paper that shows we're replacing these letters with these letters exact same size, exact same font, exact same color. Mm-hmm. Right. |
| 03:11:54.33 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. |
| 03:11:54.38 | Nastassya Saad | you |
| 03:11:54.43 | Morgan Pierce | It's just winning. |
| 03:11:54.50 | Nastassya Saad | It's within the right. It's within the program. So let's- |
| 03:11:58.72 | Morgan Pierce | I mean, |
| 03:12:00.73 | Richard Graef | Yes. Somebody has to make a drawing anyway. of some sort. |
| 03:12:05.50 | Kristina Feller | So let's look at- |
| 03:12:06.13 | Richard Graef | or something. |
| 03:12:06.84 | Mary Wagner | Bye. |
| 03:12:08.19 | Kristina Feller | Let's look at that. |
| 03:12:08.64 | Mary Wagner | And then, |
| 03:12:09.10 | Kristina Feller | Chairman. |
| 03:12:09.17 | Mary Wagner | Chair, may I? Thank you. |
| 03:12:10.57 | Kristina Feller | Yes, our city. |
| 03:12:13.60 | Mary Wagner | It's so hard with screen share to see what I'm not sure. Let me see if I can offer a suggestion and see if this helps or at least gives you something to react to. say where the new language starts, I would say something along the lines of notwithstanding the foregoing because you're making an exception. So that would come before tenant signage at the beginning. THE FAMILY. that the names of the occupants of the building, the tenants, the occupants, the businesses, whatever you want to say there, can be modified, can be changed. provided that they meet the sign program. the applicant or the tenant shall first submit an application or whatever Lily wants it to be. to the community development director for approval. and if it meets the criteria of the the program. the community development director can approve the change. doesn't meet the criteria of the program, then that's gonna kick them into some other process. |
| 03:13:22.30 | Jeffery Luxenberg | That seems- Is there a fee for doing something like that now? |
| 03:13:26.10 | Mary Wagner | I don't know, I would have to look to Lily. You could treat it as something, I don't know. I guess what I'm trying to suggest to the commission, that gives you a staff level review and consideration, not a full-on admin, you know, kind of design review notice hearing situation. So you've already approved the criteria. And if it meets those criteria, it's just changing the lettering. Now, the name may be bigger or smaller, but it's going to be the same lettering in the same area. And I'd like to have Lily weigh in on that to see if she concurs that that would meet THE FAMILY. kind of the intent of what the sign program submitted by the applicant is supposed to do. And if she concurs that that could be done at a staff level. |
| 03:14:12.05 | Director Whalen | Thank you, Mary, and I do. I think what I would suggest modifying is and where it says an application, I would suggest the tenant shall first submit. Hey. Um, assigned plan along with their occupational use permit application all business all new businesses in Sausalito require an occupational use permit and that's a you know, less than a hundred dollar permit where staff verifies that the zoning is correct for that type of use they need that before they get their business license so if we tie that's the middle of the sign plan to the occupational use permit staff can review it at the same time as occupational use permit and hopefully issue both at once or issue the occupational use permit with a note on there saying that the signage is in conformance with the sign from program. |
| 03:15:03.32 | Jeffery Luxenberg | What if they already have an occupational use permit. |
| 03:15:09.53 | Kristina Feller | then they've already seen the signage plan |
| 03:15:12.33 | Jeffery Luxenberg | No, I understand, but the plan that we're approving tonight says building unit one, building tenant one, building tenant two, building tenant three. And so if one of the two tenants that are already in there, has been in there forever. Do they need to come in and do something and submit something and pay a fee to do something, or can they just put their sign up? That's the issue in having it. |
| 03:15:40.93 | Maria | I think that's why |
| 03:15:41.98 | Kristina Feller | is added the occupational use permit every business needs it and they need to come to the city to be in business. No matter what. |
| 03:15:50.13 | Jeffery Luxenberg | But they're already there, Chair Feller. There are two tenants already in this building. they're going to need to put up their signs. So why don't we ask them to do that? |
| 03:15:57.72 | Kristina Feller | It's a great day. |
| 03:15:58.02 | Lloyd Silverstein | Thank you. |
| 03:16:00.05 | Kristina Feller | When are we asking that? There are no tenants in there right now. So any new tenant would need a |
| 03:16:05.97 | Jeffery Luxenberg | That's not true. |
| 03:16:06.67 | Kevin McGowan | Thank you. |
| 03:16:08.15 | Kristina Feller | This occupational. use permit. |
| 03:16:11.27 | Morgan Pierce | There are no tenants in there? There's an eyeglasses and there's a, I thought they were coming out. And there's a jewelry store, I believe. |
| 03:16:18.22 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. Yeah, there are at least one or two tenants, I believe. I might be wrong. |
| 03:16:25.94 | Mary Wagner | Madam Chair, or sorry, Lily, go ahead. |
| 03:16:31.35 | Director Whalen | I was just going to suggest having those businesses submit their plans for their signage to the city. you know, to, to, me and my staff and we would review them same independent of a occupational |
| 03:16:41.17 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 03:16:43.57 | Director Whalen | use permit i was just using that as a trigger because that's a trigger point for a new business in sausalito but these two businesses i think we have an understanding that's Yeah. |
| 03:16:53.04 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 03:16:53.05 | Director Whalen | they can submit their plans and we can review |
| 03:16:55.03 | Mary Wagner | of them. |
| 03:16:56.12 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 03:16:56.14 | Mary Wagner | I would. make one minor tweak to that Lily and I it before um Christy you you delete anything because I think it is a good clarification you know what is our expectation about the existing Tenants, so I think you can have two subparts to this. know, tenants existing as of the date of this approval prior to installing their signage will come in and give you their signed plan, right? And then you're gonna review it to make sure it complies. And then two, if any of those tenants, there's new tenants or tenants change, then it's the second process. |
| 03:17:32.64 | Mary Wagner | That way there's certainty for the applicant and there's certainty for the tenants that they can't just put their sign up, they've got to come in. your um get your buy off and and move forward whether or not there's a fee for that i don't i don't know |
| 03:17:45.57 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Can we indicate there would be no fee for this other than, I mean, if there's a fee for the occupational permit, fine, but there's no additional fee for... for this review. |
| 03:17:55.31 | Director Whalen | There is no established fee for this review. |
| 03:17:58.80 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Oh, good. |
| 03:18:06.49 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I mean, if there were, we might as well get the names as part of this thing approved now. I mean, just so that they don't have to go through another process. The existing tenants... |
| 03:18:18.12 | Mary Wagner | The existing tenants. The existing tenants won't have to pay a fee is what I hear the community development director saying, because we don't have one for this review. And I don't, then, you know, as we move forward, It'll go through this occupational use permit. I don't suggest that the planning commission say no one shall ever pay. a fee for something like this, because I don't know how it's gonna be modified So I think you have clarity with respect to the existing tenants. you have clarity with respect to changes, you know, a new tenant coming in and any changes in the near term. I don't think the city plans on creating a fee. for this type of process, but I don't think you should state that in the CONDITION. |
| 03:19:01.47 | Jeffery Luxenberg | But to Vice Chair Graf's point earlier, I think, If somebody went and changed an awning elsewhere there would be a fee for that. elsewhere in this district that where there hasn't been an established program, is that correct? |
| 03:19:18.82 | Mary Wagner | I believe so. Is that correct, Lily? be a new sign. |
| 03:19:23.36 | Director Whalen | Yeah, it would be a new signed permit. And so there's a process that's associated with that that takes staff time to take it through the process. So I think the idea behind the sign program is that it's a, you know, 15-minute check to make sure that the sign is in conformance with the sign program it should be relatively easy. to do that. |
| 03:19:47.15 | Director Whalen | because the criteria is already established. for that particular sign. |
| 03:19:52.08 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yeah, I'm just hopeful that in the future that somebody doesn't treat this the way they treat it. One more sign program doesn't exist, and I know you said you'd put something in that when they submitted for the, occupational permit or whatever it was that would trigger that this is already set up. But I mean, it would be good to set these things up for future projects too, not the, You know, because it's If we have a program for it, then it makes it easier for a tenant to move in. once a project has already been approved. |
| 03:20:27.74 | Kristina Feller | So I suggest, it's a fair point, and I suggest that Director Whelan that idea and concept be put on a future agenda as a study session or workshop for discussion. and that for now we stick to this particular application and any language that we wanna modify in these conditions. but let's make sure that we include that as we have before on a future agenda. It's worthy of a discussion. |
| 03:21:06.20 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Do we need a timeline since this is different than other stuff? It can be approved by the CD director within 30 days, within 10 days, within two days? so that this doesn't go out endlessly? |
| 03:21:22.57 | Director Whalen | We could tie it to the OUP approval. |
| 03:21:26.82 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, I would just tie it to that. I mean, you guys... |
| 03:21:29.26 | Director Whalen | Bye. |
| 03:21:30.02 | Kristina Feller | No, Bess, I think we're I don't want to. lose sight of what we're trying to ultimately get accomplished here. with this application. |
| 03:21:45.38 | Mary Wagner | Okay. Madam Chair, I apologize. It's me again. So I just wanna clarify that we're gonna say, not withstanding the foregoing, than like a sub A. exist tenants and existing as of the time of the approval of this adoption of this resolution. submit a signed plan to the Community Development Director overview and approval. I WANTED TO TAKE A LOOK AT to determine it needs the requirements of the sign program. And then there's a semicolon and a sub B. that says, you know, aligning in window doors can be modified. the rest of the language there. that Christy you've got. Thank you. I believe that was the direction we were headed with that. |
| 03:22:32.65 | Kristina Feller | I agree with that. I think it's straightforward to me. |
| 03:22:36.38 | Nina | Thank you. |
| 03:22:36.41 | Richard Graef | Yeah. |
| 03:22:36.48 | Nina | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 03:22:39.18 | Kristina Feller | Anybody else have any comments? Any commissioners have any comments on that? Okay, let's keep going then. |
| 03:22:49.28 | Kristina Feller | Are there any other modifications or conditions of approval? other than the signage. Commissioner Pierce, do you have any other additional I know |
| 03:23:03.14 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. |
| 03:23:03.17 | Nastassya Saad | Yeah. |
| 03:23:03.56 | Morgan Pierce | I'm just... |
| 03:23:03.93 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 03:23:04.94 | Kristina Feller | the suicide. |
| 03:23:07.81 | Nastassya Saad | No, I don't have any others. |
| 03:23:09.47 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 03:23:09.52 | Maria | Ms. Sherlatsenburg. |
| 03:23:10.40 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 03:23:10.41 | Maria | Thank you. |
| 03:23:11.44 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I want to go back up to the language above and remove the statement that I wanted for you to take a vote on it. And if I'm voted down, I'm voted down. Thank you. before we understand the sentence, if the, |
| 03:23:21.52 | Richard Graef | Where are we? |
| 03:23:29.74 | Jeffery Luxenberg | if the excluded features are approved and included in the signed permit including sign permit the penalty fee for installing the sign should be due within 30 days and on and on unless the thing waves uh and uh all the rest of that i want to take that out and it's not because i'm endorsing the the fact that they did this uh permit but there i think there's accident circumstances here given they notified the city and all that other kind of stuff. And we really can go ahead and do an enforcement action separate from this approval. I understand normally you don't do it, but I would I would like to amend this to remove that and take a vote to do that. And if I'm voted down, it stays in. |
| 03:24:28.06 | Kristina Feller | So all you're asking for here is to take out the penalty. Is that correct? |
| 03:24:32.92 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I want to take out if the excluded features are approved and included up to the beginning of the sentence. I just want to delete that from this approval. Not that you can't enforce it, not that you can't assign it, not that you don't usually assign it. I just want to delete it from this particular |
| 03:24:40.61 | Maria | So, can you... |
| 03:24:41.98 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 03:24:42.11 | Unknown | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 03:24:53.17 | Jeffery Luxenberg | approval And so I'm asking for an amendment to take that out. You'll take a vote. I'll vote to take it out. Other people might vote to leave it in, and I might be overruled. Well, I think... |
| 03:25:04.89 | Kristina Feller | Well, I think that aren't part of the conditions that we make a recommendation to the city council, since it's not our, jurisdiction to be able to penalize somebody or not penalize somebody monetarily. we can only make that recommendation to city council. |
| 03:25:24.26 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I'm suggesting that if Lily wants to take an enforcement action, she goes right ahead. We're not taking the enforcement action. That's not our role anyways. They normally put these kinds of things in. I don't think it needs to be in this particular project at this particular time. And she can do whatever. We're not recommending. This doesn't say that we're recommending to the city council that they waive it or not waive it. I'm saying take this out. I'm just saying delete this language. I'm making an amendment to delete this label. I can be very... |
| 03:25:59.94 | Morgan Pierce | But I guess here. |
| 03:26:00.65 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 03:26:00.68 | Morgan Pierce | what does it hurt to leave the language in? I believe that the community development director elucidated an outline that made it very clear how it helps them. as a functioning body. in the process. |
| 03:26:11.47 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Because I think that this is a different circumstance here. |
| 03:26:15.51 | Morgan Pierce | This doesn't directly penalize the applicant, it's just a point of reference. |
| 03:26:21.02 | Jeffery Luxenberg | you |
| 03:26:21.07 | Morgan Pierce | Yeah. |
| 03:26:21.34 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I think it sends a signal to the business community that we're difficult. And I want to send a different message. You disagree with me. I'm fully expecting people are going to vote this, not agree with me. But I have a right to make an amendment. You do. You do. Correct. |
| 03:26:21.39 | Morgan Pierce | I've been... |
| 03:26:25.49 | Morgan Pierce | I don't think this is a rule. I would just... |
| 03:26:34.79 | Kristina Feller | world. You do, absolutely. Commissioner Pierce you disagree Commissioner Saad. |
| 03:26:45.87 | Nastassya Saad | I do disagree as well. |
| 03:26:47.31 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 03:26:48.08 | Kristina Feller | Vice-Vice Chair? |
| 03:26:50.40 | Mary Wagner | Chair Feller, I apologize. So I guess you have a motion. Did you get a second on this specific action? |
| 03:26:56.66 | Kristina Feller | No, we don't have emotion, we're just, we're- |
| 03:26:58.82 | Mary Wagner | All right. |
| 03:26:59.27 | Kristina Feller | I'm socializing the idea of whether we can |
| 03:26:59.51 | Mary Wagner | specializing the idea of whether we... Okay, I apologize for process problems. |
| 03:27:02.04 | Kristina Feller | Bye. Yeah. I mean, I don't agree with this, the position at all. Vice Chair Graff, do you agree or not? |
| 03:27:15.81 | Kristina Feller | It's a visage graph there. |
| 03:27:17.08 | Morgan Pierce | You're muted, Richard. |
| 03:27:19.49 | Kristina Feller | Yeah. |
| 03:27:23.74 | Kristina Feller | Richard, can you- |
| 03:27:24.20 | Morgan Pierce | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 03:27:32.95 | Kristina Feller | Richard, put a thumbs up or thumbs down. |
| 03:27:43.01 | Kristina Feller | Zoom team, can you assist |
| 03:27:45.51 | Richard Graef | unmute. There you go. |
| 03:27:46.69 | Kristina Feller | I'm going to go. |
| 03:27:47.92 | Richard Graef | Yeah, there we go. Um, I would, I would, be fine with this leaving I don't see that it's really required. As somebody said, I think if If something needs to be enforced, there's a mechanism for doing that already. It seems like this is Um, something that's not totally necessary in this and there's conditions in the conditions. So, Um, Just when we went out, I would be fine with that. |
| 03:28:28.96 | Kristina Feller | Okay. So I think we're going to leave. It sounds like. there are four of us that would like to leave this. And I know staff has indicated that this is easier for them. So I think that we will. leave that as is then. |
| 03:28:42.48 | Jeffery Luxenberg | What I'm actually suggesting, Mary had it correct in the first place. I'm moving that we remove this language. I heard from Vice Chair Graff that he has no problem removing the language. So I didn't hear that he said he would be fine to have the language removed. That's what he said. And so I'm asking, I'm formally asking to delete this language as an amendment to the approval that's about to happen. And then it's gonna vote three to two or four to one, but I'm gonna wind in the minutes and I'm gonna wanna record it. And so I have a right to do that. So that's what I'm saying. |
| 03:29:22.14 | Kristina Feller | Okay, so it's noted in the minutes. I think there are three people that say leave it. |
| 03:29:28.18 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I want you to take a formal book. |
| 03:29:28.19 | Kristina Feller | to. Okay. Okay. Okay. |
| 03:29:30.66 | Jeffery Luxenberg | You don't have to trust him. |
| 03:29:32.45 | Kristina Feller | We already have a Commissioner Luxembourg, welcome to make a motion. |
| 03:29:35.28 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I'm I moved to remove this language from consideration in our approval of the state. |
| 03:29:46.35 | Kristina Feller | Is there anyone that seconds that? |
| 03:29:48.93 | Jeffery Luxenberg | So, kind |
| 03:29:49.49 | Lloyd Silverstein | Thank you. |
| 03:29:50.40 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Director Whalen, could you kindly take a vote? Thank you. |
| 03:29:55.16 | Director Whalen | Commissioner Asad. No. COMMISSIONER LUXEMBERG |
| 03:30:01.59 | Morgan Pierce | Yes. |
| 03:30:02.47 | Director Whalen | Commissioner Pearson. |
| 03:30:03.63 | Morgan Pierce | No. |
| 03:30:04.44 | Director Whalen | your graph. |
| 03:30:05.64 | Morgan Pierce | Yeah. |
| 03:30:06.40 | Director Whalen | And Chair Fowler? No. that motion does not carry. 3-2. |
| 03:30:12.64 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 03:30:13.89 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 03:30:14.68 | Kristina Feller | All right, any other comments on conditions of approval here. |
| 03:30:23.19 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Does staff have any questions of the commission about the amendments that we've made? any clarifications that can be made. |
| 03:30:35.71 | Tricia Smith | I don't. |
| 03:30:37.50 | Director Whalen | don't either thank you for the time time that you took to go through to wordsmith too i think it was important for this project in particular that we get some clarity on the process. |
| 03:30:48.40 | Kristina Feller | Hey. And again, as mentioned previously, Director Whelan, if you could kindly agendize for a future hearing the topic of I'm not sure. fees and sort of signage and standards and how we go about I'm going to go ahead and administering that, that would be helpful. |
| 03:31:16.82 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Okay. So at this point, would anybody like to make a motion to approve both the findings and condition of approval as amended. just now in our discussions. |
| 03:31:39.73 | Morgan Pierce | I will. I can pull up the... the right title. There we go. Um. I am. Move that we approve sign permit, design review permit, 2021-004342 through 1842. Princess Street. with the conditions as outlined. |
| 03:32:05.25 | Nastassya Saad | I'll second. Sorry, I'm on mute. |
| 03:32:08.20 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 03:32:09.99 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 03:32:10.01 | Kristina Feller | Excellent. Director Whalen, will you take the role? |
| 03:32:15.16 | Richard Graef | up on the camera. Oh. |
| 03:32:16.93 | Kristina Feller | Commissioner, |
| 03:32:17.97 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 03:32:22.53 | Michael Rex | Yes. |
| 03:32:24.45 | Director Whalen | Commissioner Pierce. |
| 03:32:25.58 | Michael Rex | Yes. |
| 03:32:26.48 | Director Whalen | Mr. Saad. Yes. I share a graph. |
| 03:32:33.02 | Director Whalen | Vice chair grab. Right. |
| 03:32:35.71 | Barbara Herzig | Thank you. |
| 03:32:35.74 | Director Whalen | Thank you. |
| 03:32:35.79 | Barbara Herzig | Sure. |
| 03:32:36.05 | Director Whalen | Thank you. Did I lose? I think we might have lost Vice Chair Burroughs. |
| 03:32:44.08 | Morgan Pierce | He looks frozen. |
| 03:32:45.41 | Kristina Feller | He looks frozen. Oh, we just released him. |
| 03:32:50.81 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 03:32:50.83 | Morgan Pierce | Thank you. |
| 03:32:50.96 | Richard Graef | THE END OF |
| 03:32:53.92 | Kristina Feller | Soyshare graph, you're muted. |
| 03:32:56.01 | Richard Graef | Okay. Yep. Somehow or other I keep getting disconnected. I don't know if that's me or the system. But anyway, my vote was yes. |
| 03:33:07.23 | Director Whalen | Thank you. Chair Fowler. Thank you. |
| 03:33:09.26 | Kristina Feller | Yeah. |
| 03:33:09.34 | Director Whalen | Yes. That carries five zero. |
| 03:33:11.74 | Kristina Feller | Right. At this point, if I could, I would just like to ask the applicant after hearing all this discussion, obviously we've already voted. I would like to hear if there's any Uh, THE END OF questions that they might have or any clarifications that we can provide based on our deliberations and vote. |
| 03:33:37.81 | Kristina Feller | Zoom team, if you could help me maybe unmute Mr. Rex and Mr. Silverstein. |
| 03:33:48.90 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 03:33:51.70 | Michael Rex | I'm not sure if you're I have no questions. I appreciate your hard work on this to, respond to our concerns. And I appreciate the approval. of the sign exception. or special signs either way. Thank you. |
| 03:34:12.62 | Lloyd Silverstein | I'd also like to agree with Michael. Certainly I'm disappointed about this whole a sign thing regarding the front of the building. I understand the process that you have to go through. The only thing I would ask is that I believe our architectural historian, Mark Halbert, had wanted to make a comment. I believe we have one minute left. So if he is still available and still wants to do that, I would ask your permission to let him do that. |
| 03:34:40.03 | Michael Rex | I'm not sure. And I apologize for not introducing him as I should have. |
| 03:34:44.84 | Kristina Feller | It's okay, we've already voted at this time, so it's already approved on our end. So I think, At this point, you've heard our requests for staff to work with you and your team Um, to, with the HPC and all the information that. we believe is extremely important to go back to HBC with. And so I would ask your historic architect to work with staff. and the rest of your team to do that. |
| 03:35:14.79 | Unknown | in the rest of the world. |
| 03:35:17.51 | Kristina Feller | at this time. |
| 03:35:21.24 | Michael Rex | Okay. |
| 03:35:23.48 | Kristina Feller | Appreciate it and thank you. of luck going forward. |
| 03:35:29.10 | Maria | Thank you. |
| 03:35:29.98 | Michael Rex | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 03:35:30.85 | Maria | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 03:35:32.73 | Michael Rex | Thank you. |
| 03:35:32.74 | Lloyd Silverstein | Thank you. |
| 03:35:32.83 | Michael Rex | Thank you. |
| 03:35:33.32 | Lloyd Silverstein | Thanks, Michael. Thanks, Nina. Thanks, everybody. I really appreciate it. Thank you. |
| 03:35:38.26 | Kristina Feller | Thanks. Thank you. |
| 03:35:38.68 | Maria | Thank you. |
| 03:35:38.72 | Kristina Feller | Good night. |
| 03:35:39.22 | Lloyd Silverstein | Good night. |
| 03:35:39.97 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 03:35:40.03 | Lloyd Silverstein | And I, |
| 03:35:40.47 | Michael Rex | Thank you. |
| 03:35:41.37 | Kristina Feller | Director Whelan. What is next on our agenda? |
| 03:35:46.14 | Director Whalen | Thank you Chair Feller. So we're onto the communications item on our agenda. I just wanted to give a couple brief updates here, kind of looking out towards the rest of the year and some of the projects of the Planning Commission might be seeing on the And this is kind of a report out here, but if you do have any questions, happy to answer them. So on the development review side of things, we have a number of projects that you'll be seeing throughout the remainder of this year. Some you've already seen. in study sessions, Liberty Ship project, for example, and then the 110 4th Street duplex project We also have the 19 unit condo project on Bridgeway at Filbert that will most likely be coming to the Planning Commission this year. We have some development projects on Varda Landing and Gate 5 Road that will be coming to the Planning Commission, single-family houses, and then an artist studio as well. Um, And we have a Clipper project is doing a realignment. and replacement of docks in some of their basins as well. And so that will probably be coming to you this year. On the long range planning side of things, we have um we're working on the housing element update right now we're working very closely with the chair of the planning commission and commissioner luxembourg who sit on our proposal review committee we released an rfp for consultants at the beginning. Unfortunately, we did not receive any responses to that RFP. We re-strategized and released it re-released the RFP to some targeted firms and we're hoping to get some good responses by next Monday that we'll consider do interviews and make a recommendation to the city council. The council also adopted a resolution forming the housing element advisory committee at their last hearing and I'm happy to circulate that resolution to the Planning Commission as a one-way communication, just making a note. |
| 03:37:52.39 | Morgan Pierce | They call it the HE Act. |
| 03:37:54.97 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 03:37:59.47 | Kristina Feller | That's quite the idea. |
| 03:37:59.74 | Director Whalen | I think it goes there. He actually... but we used to call it heck, so. I'm not sure. So we have that up and we're going to be recruiting for that committee pretty soon here and we'll be distributing recruitment materials. I'll get that to the planning commission so you can circulate that to your network of folks in the community who might be interested in serving on that committee. We also have our objective design and development standards we will be working on this year. I'm hoping in the summertime frame, the planning commission will be able to take a look at those. and provide some direction. also looking on kicking off our general plan implementation this summer of this year i'm working on a work plan for that And then we also have, we're working on inclusionary residential in lieu of fees as well. And that's a county collaboration. And in addition to the objective design and development standards, we're working on with other Marin County jurisdictions using SB2 monies. So I expect you'll see that probably in the fall or winter of this year. That is my update on long range and upcoming development review projects. I also wanted to let the commission know that Not surprisingly, we did receive an appeal of the planning commission's decision to approve the project at 99 Wolfback. At your last hearing, we received a timely appeal, so that'll go to the city council for their consideration. Um, We have not received any other appeals, so that's the good news. the George ADU was not appealed, nor was the Marian Project at the last meeting. |
| 03:39:44.84 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 03:39:45.45 | Director Whalen | Happy to answer any questions you might have. |
| 03:39:45.46 | Kristina Feller | Happy to answer. Just had a quick question for you, Director Whelan. Are any of these projects that you're looking at for our future agendas, are any of them study sessions to start with? Are you trying to... putting applicants into study sessions. They've been very successful, I think, |
| 03:40:03.18 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:40:03.20 | Richard Graef | Bye. |
| 03:40:09.14 | Kristina Feller | previously. And some of those are big projects, it sounds like. |
| 03:40:12.73 | Director Whalen | Yeah, it's a good question. And we are trying to go that route with some of our major development projects. So the heart, the Clipper project will be a study session that the planning commission will hear. |
| 03:40:13.71 | Kristina Feller | AND WE ARE |
| 03:40:22.98 | Director Whalen | prior to the public hearing. And... We are also the Casno project. we are, I can't remember where we landed on a study session or not. That was just, it's a single family house project. So we're working with the applicants on the benefits and of doing a study session in advance. Some of the projects are a little complicated because they do require some further environmental review. And so there's a timeline for the environmental review. So we're weighing those factors as well. but we are suggesting study sessions to the bigger projects. |
| 03:40:59.46 | Jeffery Luxenberg | And Director Whelow, do you know what specifically is on the May 17th agenda? |
| 03:41:05.37 | Director Whalen | So we actually don't have any items right now on that agenda. I just checked in with Maria and we didn't have any, we had some that were scheduled and the links and property we're hoping to get on, but we're still working with the applicant and the uphill neighbor on some of those issues, so that one's not ready. to go and I think we were actually planning the Clipper study session, but that one's not quite ready with environmental review. So I'll be working with the chair on the agenda for that meeting. And if anything pops on last minute that we noticed for this week, I'll let the planning commission know. |
| 03:41:39.42 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Do you have anything scheduled for the first meeting in June, just out of curiosity, if something is scheduled? |
| 03:41:44.97 | Director Whalen | Let me take a quick look. |
| 03:42:08.08 | Director Whalen | So it looks like we will hopefully have the CLIPPER project, the study session at the beginning of June. It looks like we might have a condo conversion at 195 High Vista. And we might have a tentative map at 167, 169, Filbert. Although I see a note here that we're still working on completeness from the public part. Department of Public Works so depending on if that is complete or not, we might be able to schedule it. |
| 03:42:42.62 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you very much. |
| 03:42:44.44 | Director Whalen | And I think there was a, sorry, Commissioner Luxembourg, I think we were adding a tree removal permit as well. And I cannot remember the address right now. It's not on my scheduling. Thank you. Thank you. |
| 03:42:54.30 | Kristina Feller | I have two questions for you, Lily. One is, is there a way that we can get, I mean, I know it's rare that we have a lighter agenda or time, but it would be really valuable, I think for this commission to get sort of an updated report from our inspectors like Kenneth Henry and stuff to really understand better the enforcement side. because it seems like a lot of comments and issues |
| 03:43:19.59 | Unknown | Um, |
| 03:43:23.96 | Kristina Feller | I'm sure we all see around town and that we hear at this commission have to do with enforcement And it's something that we've tried to focus EDAC on enforcement rather than permitting, which is probably a better more valuable, you know, they've got a great resource, but enforcement is something that affects a lot of our businesses is not just residential, but there are a lot of, use permit permits out there that are not being honored and affecting our business and business strategy here, it would be really valuable for this commission to know that. |
| 03:44:07.58 | Director Whalen | I can definitely add that to a future agenda. I don't know if we'll be prepared to do that by the 19th, your next meeting, |
| 03:44:13.88 | Kristina Feller | Yeah. Yeah, whenever. And then the other one is, you know, I want to ask the, you know, it's been a burning question in my mind. is the Bonita Street project with all the story poles and flags and It looks like a car dealership that, you know, right off Locust, It's been up for some time and I know we got letters, many, many letters at one point, but it's never come on our agenda. And I'm just curious if that's with HPC or what the status of that is. |
| 03:44:47.97 | Director Whalen | Sure, yeah, it is still with the Historic Preservation Commission right now. It needs to return to them for some more information. And then once that's wrapped up, it'll come to the Planning Commission. |
| 03:44:59.91 | Maria | Thank you. |
| 03:45:04.47 | Kristina Feller | Anybody else? |
| 03:45:06.19 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 03:45:06.97 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 03:45:07.02 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 03:45:07.05 | Kristina Feller | more. |
| 03:45:07.69 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. And Director Rillian, I'm sorry if you said it and I missed it, but just I'm, Chair Feller since we had been part of the same communication with the mayor on the on the word that I could never say. I don't know why it doesn't come out of my mouth. |
| 03:45:19.54 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 03:45:20.97 | Maria | I don't know. |
| 03:45:21.31 | Kristina Feller | of the |
| 03:45:23.89 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. Director Whalen and I are going to catch up next week and get some initial thoughts down. So hopefully I'll maybe catch Michael Rex. I had sent him a few emails and still haven't heard back. So we'll go from there. |
| 03:45:38.83 | Kristina Feller | Thank you for doing that. I can unless anyone has any more questions for Lily, I can give a quick update on the sea level rise and resiliency task force. THE FAMILY. We, As you know, through the general plan, the issue of sea level rise and subsidence and resiliency was a huge issue. And the mayor has appointed the task force to look at this. And, um, It's myself, the vice mayor, the mayor, and then we have a group of experts in the community here. We have a number of them, it's quite extraordinary. that have comprised this task force. We have, Folks from Sausalito Beautiful, We have Cass Green, who of course has done all the mapping throughout Marin County on marsh and tides and so on, she's quite a notable person. And then we have Terry, who, as you've probably heard many, many times, has worked on the estuaries and sort of the seagrass and so on. It's an interesting group. And. We met with sister cities about a week and a half ago on zoom. because we wanted to try to engage with sister cities because we know that of our three sister cities, they are actually dealing with sea level rise as well in their own ways. And we thought, okay, well, maybe this is a great opportunity to really look at this in a more global way because it's not a unique issue in Sausalito and try to learn from what other cities and parts of the world are doing, to address this and so we have to do That's sort of where we are with the task force. was only appointed maybe three weeks ago, and then we met about a week and a half ago. again with sister cities and then separately. And so we're just really getting started, I know that we're going to be reaching out to the rest of the community to see who else would like to be involved in this or different areas of interest or expertise that people might have. So something for you to keep in mind, or if you're at all interested, Um, you know, certainly let me know or let the mayor know, um, the more the merrier on this issue. It's a big issue. |
| 03:48:19.24 | Nastassya Saad | Is something going to go out in the currents or... Will there be something formal |
| 03:48:27.78 | Kristina Feller | Yes, I don't know when and that will all go through, you know, Mayor Hoffman. |
| 03:48:29.32 | Nastassya Saad | I don't. |
| 03:48:35.83 | Kristina Feller | on how and when she wants to do that. And I think she's working with Sister Cities on that. But the answer is yes. we wanna, we've sort of broken it down into we've got want to focus on sort of, you know, communications first, like what is sea level rise? why should any of us care and how does it affect me? You know, I mean, simple stuff like that, |
| 03:48:53.48 | Barbara Herzig | Bye. |
| 03:48:58.81 | Kristina Feller | You know, I mean, if you live on the hill, why do you care about sea level rise? And of course, there's a lot of different reasons. that you should that are pretty profound. But we wanna try to get that kind of communications in place so when we do, publicize it, you know, we have some really clear, concise You know, this is not just a problem for people that live on live at the water's edge, this is everybody's problem. |
| 03:49:28.46 | Nastassya Saad | Sure, yeah, I'll just, I don't want to raise her hand for her by any means, but Angela Wildman on the HPC, she's the vice chair. So, She's a writer that much I know. Is she a copywriter? I think so, but she definitely has a lot of experience. So if, you maybe want to ask for like an extra set of eyes. She might be a good resource if she has some bandwidth. |
| 03:49:58.11 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, great. I've got it written down. I don't know Angela. So yeah, I know who she is, but |
| 03:50:02.62 | Nastassya Saad | do you think? Yeah, she's great. She's super smart. So I think, I mean, she could, she might be of use. |
| 03:50:08.61 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Um, Anything else you guys? Any other? communications or items that you want to put on future Agendas for discussion. or initiatives |
| 03:50:30.88 | Maria | Yeah. |
| 03:50:31.94 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. All right. Well, it's only 1022, so. |
| 03:50:42.09 | Kristina Feller | All right, thank you guys. Thank you, Director Whalen to you and to your staff. to our city attorney, Mary, Mary's still there. Maria, thank you so much. for running Zoom. So thank you. Appreciate everybody's help and attention to the details tonight. And we'll see you in two weeks. Good night. |
| 03:51:07.00 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 03:51:07.05 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Thank you all. Enjoy the rest of your evening. |
| 03:51:08.18 | Richard Graef | Enjoy the rest of your evening. |
| 03:51:09.85 | Kristina Feller | I'm sorry. |
| 03:51:10.03 | Richard Graef | Good night. Buenos noches. Thank you. |
| 03:51:13.04 | Maria | Bye. |
| 03:51:13.42 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
Tricia Smith — In Favor: Resident living behind the property, thanked the commission and applicant. Appreciated the building's beauty, the color choices, and the restoration effort, calling it a 'gift to the city' and emphasizing its role at the entrance to Sausalito. ▶ 📄