| Time | Speaker | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:13.45 | Kristina Feller | Okay, all the public is in, we are good to go. |
| 00:00:13.97 | Andrew Junius | We are. |
| 00:00:17.95 | Kristina Feller | Great. Thank you so much, Maria. Welcome everybody. Good evening. Welcome to the regular planning commission meeting of May 19th. Community Development Director Whelan, will you please call the roll? |
| 00:00:31.43 | Director Whelan | Good evening Chair Fowler and Planning Commissioners. This meeting is being held pursuant to section three of Executive Order N-2920. issued by Governor Newsom on March 17, 2020, and all members are now joining this meeting telephonically through Zoom. I'll now call the roll. Commissioner Saad. THE END OF THE END OF THE Commissioner Luxenberg. |
| 00:00:51.23 | Andrew Junius | you know, |
| 00:00:52.16 | Director Whelan | ice chair grass. Thank you. Chair Fowler. Here. All members are present and there is a quorum. |
| 00:00:59.68 | Kristina Feller | Excellent, thank you very much. The next item on the agenda is approval of the agenda. I do have a request from staff to flip the order of A and B. So we'll hear the Community Development Director work program first. and then have the presentation on the Housing Accountability Act. Do I have a motion to approve that with the amendments on the agenda order? |
| 00:01:24.15 | Jeffery Luxenberg | So we'll... |
| 00:01:25.72 | Kristina Feller | again. Excellent. Director Whelan, could you please take the roll call? Commissioner. |
| 00:01:31.97 | Director Whelan | in Luxembourg. |
| 00:01:33.64 | Nastassya Saad | Exactly. |
| 00:01:33.89 | Andrew Junius | Thank you. |
| 00:01:34.30 | Director Whelan | Commissioner Saad. |
| 00:01:35.51 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 00:01:35.53 | Nastassya Saad | YES. |
| 00:01:36.23 | Director Whelan | Vice Chair Graf. |
| 00:01:38.02 | Nastassya Saad | YOU KNOW, I'M GOING TO |
| 00:01:38.21 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 00:01:38.60 | Director Whelan | And Chair Feiler. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. That carries 5-0. |
| 00:01:43.88 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 00:01:43.90 | Director Whelan | Bye. |
| 00:01:44.03 | Kristina Feller | 4-0. |
| 00:01:44.88 | Director Whelan | Thank you. Sorry, four zero. 4-0-1. Thank you. |
| 00:01:50.00 | Kristina Feller | We are sons commissioner Pierce this evening. Excellent. Great. Thank you, Director Whelan. The next item is public comments on items not on the agenda this evening. Director Whalen could you please give the public some advice in terms of how to make that public comment and raise their hands. |
| 00:02:08.92 | Director Whelan | Make sure. Thank you, Chair Feller. This is the time to hear from citizens regarding matters that are not on your agenda. except in very limited situations. State law precludes the Planning Commission from taking action on or engaging in discussions concerning items of business that are not in the agenda. However, commissioners may refer matters not in the agenda to city staff, or direct that the subject, the agenda, is for a future meeting. or audio public comment participation is limited to three minutes per speaker If you'd like to make a comment, please raise your hand in the Zoom application. and you'll be called upon when it's your time to speak. you're calling from a phone and I don't think we have anyone but if we do you would press star nine to raise your hand. And please allow us to unmute you and let you share your video. And we have to access some settings to have some patience for us. Thank you. |
| 00:02:59.53 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Excellent. Thank you, Director Whelan. Let's see. I see one hand, Carolyn Revell. Welcome this evening. Thank you for joining us. Three minutes for public comment. If you could unmute yourself. Thank you. |
| 00:03:15.38 | Carolyn Riddell | There you go, the floor is yours. Thank you. Good evening. I'm Carolyn Riddell, president of Sassanita Beautiful. I'd like to speak briefly about the issue of parklet design. I know you're all familiar with our nonprofit organization founded in 2015 with the mission to create, enhance, and protect Sausalito's green spaces through community engagement and education. Our goals include working in close partnership with the city of Sausalito to advocate for planning and budgeting that ensure creation, the rest of the maintenance of parks and public spaces Over the years since our founding, our partnership has benefited the city with restoration of the medians, planting trees on Caledonia and downtown Bridgeway. funding park designs at MLK park and South view park and many other projects. It is in that spirit of partnership that I want to speak to you about the design process for creating parklets. Like you, we care deeply about well-designed public spaces and understand the need for design review for compatibility, safety, and so forth. But as you know, the length of the process regarding parklets has been a stumbling block for our restaurant owners in these challenging economic times. We understand that members of the city council and planning commission have been exploring ways to maintain high design standards while aiding restaurant owners in their post COVID recovery. And that the topic is on the council's agenda for June 8th. I apologize that I'm unaware of prior planning commission discussions of the topic. Thus, Lido Beautiful would like to be a part of the solution. We know that other cities such as Seattle and San Francisco have adopted clear design guidelines. And we imagine that city staff has been reviewing these Please let us know how Sausalito Beautiful could support the city's goals regarding this issue. in concert with Community Development Staff Planning Commission and city council. In closing, I want to say how thrilled we are that Morgan Pierce, retiring from your commission after six years, is joining the Sausalito Beautiful Board as our new Vice President. Thank you very much. |
| 00:05:10.60 | Kristina Feller | Thank you so much, Carolyn. And our loss, your gain, certainly as it relates to Commissioner Pierce. Thank you very much for your comments this evening. Do I have any other hands raised in the in the public. party here. |
| 00:05:26.09 | Mary Wagner | body. Please. I just talked to her the other day. |
| 00:05:30.29 | Kristina Feller | All right. She bought something for me. Commissioner, if you could... mute. Okay, there we go. I don't see any other hands raised in the audience. Um, and, uh, thank you. I'm going to close public comment now. Before we move to the next item on the agenda, I will just note, regarding issues of parklets. That's something that I will comment on under Item five on our agenda, communications. as there are a couple of us who will be just giving updates, but that is all we will be doing at that time. So thank you very much for that. Okay, Director Whelan, let's move on to the next item on the agenda. Again, we are switching our, our agenda items, so we'll go straight into the Community Development Department work plan. |
| 00:06:28.00 | Director Whelan | Thank you very much, Chair Fowler. Let me just get this started. Everyone can see my screen. and seeing that's perfect. Okay, well we thought it was important to kick off this a business session with the Planning Commission this evening. and take the opportunity to provide the commission with a high level picture of the department's work program and priorities for the upcoming fiscal year and what we're working on right now as well. The CDD is a lean and mean team of seven full-time staff. The department is supported by one director, a building inspector, an admin aide, one permit tech, And three planners, two assistants and one senior planner. We have consultant help on an as needed basis for larger cost recovery projects and we contract with CSG for building plan check inspection, building official, and code enforcement services. |
| 00:07:25.16 | Richard Graef | Excuse me, Lily, I don't see your screen. Um, Am I the only one that's not seeing it? |
| 00:07:33.95 | Kristina Feller | Vice chair, I can see it if it's commissioner Luxenberg and commissioner. Thank you. |
| 00:07:42.83 | Richard Graef | It came on briefly and then it went away. |
| 00:07:42.96 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yeah. Thank you. |
| 00:07:46.96 | Richard Graef | I'm not sure. |
| 00:07:47.62 | Director Whelan | Let me stop sharing and then try to share again. |
| 00:07:51.28 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 00:08:02.27 | Director Whelan | Is it up now? |
| 00:08:03.26 | Richard Graef | Yes. |
| 00:08:03.94 | Director Whelan | I'm sorry. |
| 00:08:04.09 | Richard Graef | Okay. aren't. Mm-mm. |
| 00:08:10.93 | Director Whelan | Okay. I think I was going to move on to... |
| 00:08:19.67 | Director Whelan | Thank you. There we go. Right. So this slide shows a snapshot of permitting over the last three years with community development, really high level, and just a few of our different categories of permits here. But it's all looking at the time period of April through We can see that the trend for the last year's permitting is similar for discretionary permitting. in the 2018-2019 period, we can see a dip that occurred during COVID For ministerial permits, I anticipate that we are actually keeping pace with our prior volume. And even though the chart doesn't show that, there was a change to our approach with ministerial permits in the 2018 time period. which significantly reduced the number of permits we received. can see through this chart on the one in green here that our building permit volume over cobit has declined |
| 00:09:23.40 | Director Whelan | This slide is not intended to be read by a human. But the tables in this slide will be presented in the upcoming quarter three CDB report to the council. And so we'll have, everyone will have access to that information. And it shows that the number of active planning permit applications in our system right now, as of yesterday, from the very, very small to the very large. And it shows that the number is 256 planning applications. Currently. Of those permits, only 10 are being handled by cost recovery planners and the remaining 246 applications are being processed by Sausalito planning staff. which again is currently two assistant planners and one senior planner. |
| 00:10:09.40 | Director Whelan | This slide provides a list of some of our larger projects, development projects in the pipeline. And all of these projects with the exception of the last one at 2015 Bridgeway, which was just received recently. are being handled by cost recovery planners. a number of these projects, the Planning Commissioner will probably see Thank you. at the last half of this year, this calendar year. |
| 00:10:35.86 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Louie, did you say that this presentation will be attached to something that we can look back on? |
| 00:10:42.97 | Director Whelan | Yeah, so the slides, we'll get those posted online so you can take a look at those. And then I am preparing a quarter three CDD update report to the council and that will be on their consent calendar for next week so that the agenda will go out I think tomorrow, and so everyone will have access to all the little details in that report, including the tables that I just showed. |
| 00:11:06.85 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Okay, yeah, that would be helpful. Thank you. |
| 00:11:08.90 | Director Whelan | THE FAMILY IS |
| 00:11:09.11 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 00:11:12.79 | Kristina Feller | And why am I confused? Not advancing the slides. |
| 00:11:40.43 | Director Whelan | This table provides us, everyone can see the slide. Yes. |
| 00:11:45.88 | Andrew Junius | Yes. |
| 00:11:46.64 | Director Whelan | This table provides a summary of the ongoing long range projects the department is working on, which are legally required by the state of California. This includes the upcoming housing element update general plan implementation. changes related to VMT and LOS or vehicle miles traveled by level of service. the upcoming climate pollutant reduction strategy and the objective design and development standards. It also provides a status of those projects as well. |
| 00:12:22.55 | Director Whelan | We're also working on a number of other special projects, including working with the federal government on the possible surplusing of the machine shop site Friendship. We're working with the council working group on cannabis regulations. pilot program for electric vehicle charging in the right of way. ongoing short-term rental enforcement. to the utilization of all of our hard copy records in our community development department. issuing temporary COVID-19 related permits for outdoor activities. implementation of all of the programs in our newly adopted general plans. conducting public outreach for single-use plastic ban, participating in meetings related to sustainability hubs to provide energy storage for critical locations in the city. working on a countywide EV readiness plan in addition to an all electric ordinance. We also have a number of initiatives from the Historic Preservation Commission, work on discontiguous historic districts, national register listing for some properties, in consideration of historic districts in other areas of the city. Additionally, staff is working on pursuing grant funding for those experiencing homelessness right now. |
| 00:13:46.84 | Director Whelan | That brings me to the end of my brief update here on activities that are occurring in the Community Development Department. And obviously I'm available for any questions you might have. |
| 00:13:58.21 | Kristina Feller | Thank you so much, Director Whalen. Certainly you and your team, I know this commission, I think I can speak for all of us really appreciate all the time and effort you and the planners put into preparing staff reports and answering our questions and running after additional information in order for us to make informed and cohesive decisions here on the commission. So thank you very much for that. Do any commissioners have questions for Director Whalen at this time? Commissioner Saad, do you have any? Any questions? |
| 00:14:33.70 | Nastassya Saad | I don't have any questions, but it's a great overview. Thanks, Lily. |
| 00:14:37.57 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:14:38.32 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 00:14:38.93 | Kristina Feller | Commissioner Luxembourg? |
| 00:14:40.69 | Jeffery Luxenberg | No questions, but again, thank you, Lily. Excellent overview. |
| 00:14:45.28 | Kristina Feller | Vice Chair Grav? |
| 00:14:49.09 | Kristina Feller | Oh, you're on mute there. Thank you. Vice Chair. |
| 00:14:57.26 | Richard Graef | Okay, there we go. No questions. Thank you, Lily, yes, for that overview. |
| 00:15:05.70 | Kristina Feller | I have a couple of questions, Lily. I'm sure that's gonna surprise you. Um, I wanted to understand, you know, at one point, I think it was November, October, November of last year. we sort of had an overarching discussion on the planning commission about pursuing potential avenues and opportunities for shared services with some of our neighbors, whether it be the city of Mill Valley, city of Tiberon, et cetera. And that was also with particular sensitivities towards economic recovery, tax base and if there were ways that we could share services to be more economically helpful to one another and viable ourselves. And I'm wondering with everything you have on your plate, particularly some of the legally required initiatives. Is there, or pursuing grant funding, have you been able to look into the opportunity to possibly share services with our neighbors. |
| 00:16:13.57 | Director Whelan | Yeah, that's a good question, Chair Feller. And at any opportunity that comes up, I do reach out to the directors in the team with the other Marin County jurisdictions. For example, this week I actually circulated a request of interest in shared services, if anyone has a historic preservation specialist on their team, on staff, we might be able to enter into a shared services contract with them to use them for you know, an hour a week or so on a very limited basis, but that would provide that city with a little bit of relief and get us the resources that we need. I'm not. So that type of thing, I'm continually reaching out to other jurisdictions to see if others are interested in those types of opportunities. haven't come up with a winner yet. but I know that there are other jurisdictions that are definitely interested in Mill Valley and Larkspur in particular. |
| 00:17:11.24 | Kristina Feller | That's great. but that's great. I'm sure something will come up and appreciate that effort. The other thing I had, I wanted just to ask about just to kind of advance the conversation a little bit for the purpose of the commission here and of course, the public that are either listening at home or here on the Zoom application, is you talked about code enforcement, but one of the things that when EDAC came, the Economic Development Advisory Committee came, and gave us a presentation earlier this year, we really Um, we really emphasize the need for enforcement. and maybe the role that EDAC could play with enforcement, particularly as it relates to conditional use permits and you know, the changeover of business and retail and the lack of adherence to those conditional use permits. And I'm just wondering if The code enforcement that you speak of sort of in your staff and in your flowchart Does that include efforts with the enforcement that I'm referring to, or is that still a need that perhaps assistance can be given through EDAC and others. |
| 00:18:32.08 | Director Whelan | It's also a great question. So the department right now is community development manages code enforcement. of all types in the city related to building construction, Yeah. And in engineering as well, we take over a lot of the complaints on private property as well. We, work on a complete basis right now in the city. That's the city's policy. So we aren't actively, staff is not actively going out and finding violations. we see something obviously health and safety related, or really obvious it's right in front of our face, then we'll start a case, a code enforcement case. But most of the code enforcement cases are on a complaint basis. Short term rentals are the exception. That is an area where the council has specifically directed us to be proactive with our enforcement. And so we actively have a program where we are monitoring and enforcing short term rentals. We're constrained to some extent because of the resources that we have for code enforcement. we contract with, a CSG, and they provide three days a week. of the code enforcement officer. |
| 00:19:45.38 | Andrew Junius | which is an important |
| 00:19:45.47 | Director Whelan | which is an improvement over a couple of years ago. We were at one day a week. |
| 00:19:49.06 | Andrew Junius | Thank you. |
| 00:19:49.41 | Director Whelan | It's a big improvement. Um, But that is an opportunity if the council was interested in doing more proactive enforcement in specific areas. or increased code enforcement beyond what we're able to do right now, then we would need some more resources in terms of boots on the ground |
| 00:20:09.70 | Andrew Junius | Mm-hmm. |
| 00:20:10.19 | Director Whelan | but the code enforcement that we do do is all for everything, you know, from building violations to, you know, a business that went in without the appropriate permits, I need to get a business license. |
| 00:20:24.14 | Kristina Feller | Okay. And, and, you know, forgive me, but I'm asking some of these questions because it's going to lead to. Um, item five on our agenda in terms of communications and some of the actions that we have talked as a commission of taking in terms of liaison or joint hearings with some of the other commissions here, also as a means to be more economic with time and resources. whether it was city staff or our own, just to be a lot more efficient with that. I'm not sure. and issues where we need to jointly be working with city council, sustainability commission, historic preservation commission or any of the committees that we have in the city, like economic development and so on. So the last question I'll ask, is, the 256 applications that you referred to Um, Is there a separate number that require HPC Uh, input and sign off. Or is that all included in the 256? |
| 00:21:35.24 | Director Whelan | That's all included in the 256. |
| 00:21:37.03 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 00:21:37.06 | Director Whelan | Thank you. |
| 00:21:37.08 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Okay. I think one of the things that you know, on a, we should maybe agendize in the future. in the near term here is the possibility, we talked about this when we were setting our calendar for the year, is joint sessions, which of course the planning commission typically as part of our regular course of action, once, maybe twice a year, we do have joint. either city council planning commission hearings, Joint HPC Planning Commission, And I think at this point, we really, we've talked about this since last fall, Possibly either a joint sustainability commission planning commission meeting once a year or something or assigning a liaison from the Planning Commission to the Sustainability Commission. again, we're not working in silos and there's not a whole bunch of redundant or abortive work, but we're being a little bit more efficient and also using, the city resources with community development and others a little bit more efficiently. So I'm just gonna throw that out there since this is an agendized item in a public hearing So we can talk about this, but I think we should probably agendize something like that in the future so we can be working. a lot smarter, because we already work hard enough. want to make this as efficient and helpful as possible. |
| 00:23:03.43 | Director Whelan | If I can, Chair Feller, it's a great comment. And there are a number of projects that those two commissions specifically are working on that will interface with the planning commission to the sustainability, all the work they're doing on EV chargers and the pilot program for EV chargers, that will come to the planning commission. and then the Historic Preservation Commission, the work that they're doing on the different districts and maybe listing that would involve some involvement with the Planning Commission as well, I anticipate. And so those might be good opportunities for joint sessions with the PC and those two bodies. And I think we're getting probably closer for the historic items than the sustainability items, but they're both ready to go in the next couple of months, I think. |
| 00:23:52.85 | Andrew Junius | Thank you. |
| 00:23:53.11 | Director Whelan | You might be looking at targeting maybe you know summer too early fall for those types of things. Okay. And then I also wanted to mention, I forgot to mention that there will be, we're anticipating bringing a code enforcement update to the council relatively soon from our contract code enforcement officer. along with our Lieutenant Stacy Gregory and myself. giving the council an update on where we are with code enforcement and the pilot program as well and seeking some direction from them. the Code and Persona Officer. is happy to come to the planning commission to give a similar update as well and so we can look at a date to schedule that |
| 00:24:36.66 | Kristina Feller | I would. and I'd love to get everyone else's comments as well on that. I would love to have that presentation to the planning commission as well. I'm a firm believer that, you know, whatever that report might inform us about, it could make us more aware of but additional conditions we need to be making on future decisions. and streamlining it, making it easier, both for the applicant and for staff. Um, Anybody else have any other thoughts or comments about that? any commissioners? |
| 00:25:14.46 | Nastassya Saad | Yeah, I would think A presentation would be very helpful just for scope. |
| 00:25:20.30 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:25:22.56 | Jeffery Luxenberg | That's what I do. |
| 00:25:23.64 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:25:25.24 | Director Whelan | Thank you. |
| 00:25:25.40 | Kristina Feller | Looks like. |
| 00:25:25.97 | Director Whelan | We all agree with that. |
| 00:25:27.86 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 00:25:28.52 | Director Whelan | I'll look with her to see when she'd be able to come and give that presentation. |
| 00:25:28.55 | Kristina Feller | Wow. |
| 00:25:33.28 | Kristina Feller | Great, thank you, Director Whelan. Sorry, I sort of monopolized some of that time, but I want to make sure that we sort of start thinking about these things ongoing. Any other commissioner comments at this time? No. Okay. Great, thank you. Thank you again, Director Whelan, for your team's work and also for the presentation this evening. Um, So I think we can move on to the next item on the agenda, which is item 4B. |
| 00:26:09.58 | Kristina Feller | Our city attorney is here. |
| 00:26:10.97 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. that one's mine thank you um madam chair members of the commission and i think your community development director and i are going to tag team this one a little bit. have some input and if you give me a second, I'm doing multiple devices here. I'm gonna start sharing my screen. and just experienced a minor power outage. So luckily that came back up for me to be here. So hold on one second. |
| 00:26:36.85 | Mary Wagner | Nope. Maria, you have to let my, if you would please let my other device share screen, that would be great. |
| 00:26:49.15 | Andrew Junius | Thank you. |
| 00:26:49.16 | Mary Wagner | Sorry about that, Mary. No worries. Thank you. Multiple devices make it tricky. |
| 00:27:01.90 | Mary Wagner | All right, can you all see my screen? Yes. Okay, great. So I think Lily's item on the overview of what's going on in the the planning department in terms of projects is a great segue into this next presentation on the Housing Accountability Act. which is all contained in one provision in the government code, but it's a packed provision. So we're gonna get into some of the meat of that as we go through this. So the intent here is to give you guys an overview of the Housing Accountability Act in preparation for some projects that are gonna be coming forward. to you that the act applies to. So I'm sure this is going to result in lots of questions from the commissioner, some of which we may be able to answer tonight. and some of which we may need to to bring back to you in the future. So again, this presentation is all about the Housing Ability Act, which is set forth in Government Code Section 65589.5. I mean, as you guys are all aware, there have been a number of legislative actions over the last few years in particular dealing with housing and trying to make housing become more available and a lot of that is impacting how the city processes and is allowed to process. housing development projects. So tonight we're just talking about one of those provisions, the Housing Accountability Act, It was actually adopted in 1982. And it was kind of, I wouldn't say dormant, but it was kind of a quiet statute, if you will. But it was given a lot more legs in with recent amendments, particularly in amendments that occurred in the last few years of 2017, 2018, and 2019. And I included this statement of the legislative intent in adopting some of those amendments because I think it really speaks to the task that that you're going to be dealing with as you process some of these projects. And as you can see here on the screen, The legislature specifically declared its intent to significantly increase the approval and construction of new housing. for all economic segments of California's communities by meaningfully and effectively curbing the capability of local governments to deny reduce the density of or render in feasible housing development projects. And then the last sentence there, they say this intent has not been fulfilled. |
| 00:29:28.94 | Mary Wagner | The Housing Accountability Act also includes some interpretation guidance that I think is useful. specifically stating that it's the policy of the state that the section be interpreted and implemented in a manner to afford the fullest possible weight to the interest of and the approval and provision of housing. So then we get into the applicability of the HAA. So the HAA applies to all quote unquote housing development projects and emergency shelters. So for your purposes tonight, I think we're primarily focusing on the application to housing development projects. So the first question becomes, well, what does that mean? How is that term defined? Yeah. And it includes projects that are residential only. four mixed-use projects with at least two-thirds of the square footage designated for residential use. And it also applies to transitional and supportive housing. It's important to understand that the statute applies to affordable and market I think there has been a common misperception, at least in the past, that it really only applied to the provision of affordable housing as those terms are defined by the state and by the statute. But it is really important to understand that it also applies to market rate housing. Also important to understand, it applies to more than one unit. So a single family residential development where it's just a single family home. would not qualify to be subject to the Housing Accountability Act. |
| 00:31:01.97 | Mary Wagner | So the HAA applies some limitations on the city's ability to review projects. If a housing development project, as we just talked about what that means, complies with quote unquote objective standards, The city can only reduce the density or deny the project if it makes very specific findings of a specific adverse impact to public health and safety. And you have to find that that impact can't be mitigated in any other way. And you have to make written findings that are supported by a preponderance of the evidence. you know, for all the lawyers or those of us who slept at the Holiday Inn and, you know, consider ourselves to be attorneys. That's a much different standard than a typical review of a city decision. Typically, a court would give great deference to a city in applying its own statutes and its own code, but this sort of changes the calculus a little bit to create a little bit higher of a standard of review. |
| 00:32:04.59 | Mary Wagner | So then we have to do. |
| 00:32:04.61 | Jeffery Luxenberg | So then we have to get- Sarah, can I ask a quick question? I'm sorry to interrupt you. Just on that last slide, what's the definition of |
| 00:32:07.48 | Mary Wagner | Absolutely. |
| 00:32:12.52 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Where is it? Um, objective standards, does that mean zoning? What is objective standards? |
| 00:32:19.10 | Mary Wagner | We're going to get there. We're going to get there. |
| 00:32:20.69 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:32:22.14 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. Yep, nope, that's great. So first I was gonna touch briefly on this specific adverse impact. It is defined in the statute And it's a significant quantifiable direct and unavoidable impact based on objective identified written public health and safety standards as they existed on the date the application was being complete. And I included another statement of legislative intent that the legislator legislature determined that the conditions would have a specific adverse impact upon the public health and safety that those would arise infrequently. you know, signaling the legislative intent directly in the statute in numerous places. So to Commissioner Luxenberg, your question of what is objective development standard means? Those standards and conditions and policies have to meet the following criteria. and then I define them here for you. And I'm going to jump right to the last bullet point here. I'm not sure. what does it objective mean? And it isn't defined in the Housing Accountability Act, But HCD actually issued a technical assistance advisory memo on September 15th of 2020. And they say that objective standards are those that involve no personal or subjective judgment by a public official and being uniformly verifiable by reference to an external and uniform benchmark, or criterion available and knowledgeable by both the development applicant or proponent and the public official. So for example, a height limitation of X feet, that's objective, it's quantifiable. You know what that means when you read it. F.A.R. is another one. And I think Lily had another example of how to differentiate between something that may be objective and something that isn't. Lily, do you want to jump in with that? |
| 00:34:17.85 | Director Whelan | Thank you. |
| 00:34:18.16 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 00:34:18.17 | Director Whelan | Sure, yeah, I mean, if we think of our We think of a standard that would say something like, All second levels need to be set back from the first level. by four feet. I'm sorry. versus a standard or a finding that says the two story building shall not loom over the street. One, the first one is objective because anyone can look at a project and see if it meets that standard or not, if it's four feet offset. The other one is more subjective and involves judgment from someone. |
| 00:35:03.89 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 00:35:03.97 | Andrew Junius | Thank you. |
| 00:35:03.99 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. Great, thanks Lily. Does that answer your question, Commissioner Luxembourg? |
| 00:35:10.59 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Sort of let me ask a follow up, although you might be getting to this. So I understand the difference between an objective standard and a subjective standard. But if the zoning says X, that the height limit is 35 feet and the FAR is 0.75 or whatever it is, Is the state statute saying that if somebody wants to develop higher than that, that they're allowed to do that? Or they're saying that as long as the standards are objective and reasonable, that they're not saying somebody can override zoning? Or are they? That's my question. |
| 00:35:47.61 | Mary Wagner | are, Well, with respect to your specific question, the Housing Accountability Act doesn't allow for that applicant to ask for a hire. standard It just really says that they have to be objective. And if they meet the objective standards, you can't deny that project. or reduce its uh... you can't reduce the number of units to, unless you make the specific findings we talked about earlier. So that's different than, for example, a density bonus request. that does have some flexibility in asking for deviations from the city's standards. But that isn't what the HAA deals with. |
| 00:36:32.28 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Okay. |
| 00:36:33.73 | Mary Wagner | Sure. |
| 00:36:37.26 | Mary Wagner | So the Housing Accountability Act also limits the application of conditions that would lower the residential density of the project. You know, a clearer example is if the project was conditioned on decreasing the number of units. So if a project came in with four units, And it was approved with only three. that would run afoul of the HAA. It also applies to the imposition of conditions that might not outright reduce the density of the project, but they had the effect of doing that. you know, some, some, Extreme examples that come to mind are you have a four unit building and the top floor is its own separate unit and you say it can only be the three unit height. That would have the effect of lowering the overall number of units. Affordable housing and emergency shelters have their own set of criteria. I wasn't going to get into that too much tonight. Affordable housing has its own additional set of review that the planning department has to go through when that application comes in as well. There's an interesting flow chart in HCD's technical assistance memo. that we can provide you guys with a link to if you're interested in delving into a little bit more of the complexity of the HAA. What happens when a project actually comes in the door is staff has to review and determine if it's consistent or inconsistent with the city's objective standards. The timeframes that you see there, the 30 to 60 days, depend upon the number of units. I believe the trigger is if it's more than 150 units, you get the longer period of time. If staff doesn't make that determination within the applicable timeframe, the projects deemed to be consistent, And it's also deemed to be consistent if there's substantial evidence that would allow a reasonable person to conclude it's consistent. The last slide I have here is on enforcement. Typically, the Housing Accountability Act is enforced through the judicial system, And there's a number of cases out there dealing with the HAA, primarily in recent years. As I told you, it was kind of a sleeper statute, if you will, for quite a while. HCD also has the ability to cause a local jurisdiction to comply with the HAA. That's the end of my presentation. I'd like to ask Lily if she has anything She thinks she'd like to add that would be useful for the Commission as you're going to have these projects coming forward to you, potentially as early as this summer. And I'll stop sharing screen here. |
| 00:39:19.71 | Director Whelan | Thanks Mary, I'm trying to think of if there's anything that you didn't mention that I think would be relevant right now and nothing's coming to mind. So maybe if the commission has some questions |
| 00:39:29.38 | Mary Wagner | Yeah, and as you're saying that, Lily, it occurs to me that it is important for the commission to understand that it's the standards, objective standards that are in place at the time the application is deemed complete. |
| 00:39:29.59 | Director Whelan | you know, |
| 00:39:36.74 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 00:39:40.08 | Mary Wagner | The law is very clear that you can't have any policies or standards that arise after the project is deemed complete. Those would not apply. to that particular project. We're also working to look at your zoning ordinance and to ensure that you do have objective standards. We know we have some work to do there. And we're working on that now. |
| 00:40:03.28 | Kristina Feller | Right. Thank you both. Thank you, Mary and Lily, for bringing this to our attention. I mean, as I see it, and I think Commissioner Luxenberg starting down the the path of some of the implications of this. I actually think the implications could be substantial. particularly because this commission is responsible for for views and trees and a lot of other things that other planning commissions maybe elsewhere don't have to deal with, but we do. So I actually think that the implications are substantial. And this, I think, is a priority for this commission to really sort of digest this and consider Um, and recommend how there could be amendments to ordinances that, you know, maintain that the spirit and the intent of our zoning here, but does not inadvertently handicap a developer um, We have major views of beautiful, days of water and mountains and hills and so on. And so we have to be very, very, strong stewards of that. I'm not sure. Let me just, Commissioner Luxenberg, you were sort of on a roll there with some of those questions. Do you have any additional questions? |
| 00:41:29.14 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yeah, I just have one other. So you mentioned that we're going to get projects under this Affordability Act later this summer, but I want to make sure I understand the nuance of those words. If a project comes in, this act would apply. It has been this for 39 years it would apply. Are you saying somebody specifically coming in under this act or somebody submitting a four unit development and we have to be aware that this act exists. I guess that's a nuance. |
| 00:42:09.54 | Mary Wagner | I think it's the latter. I think that we know that we have projects that have more than one unit that are coming forward. So instead of waiting until that project was in front of you, you know, a specific project, we thought it would be useful to give you a heads up that that was happening. you know, unlike SB 35 or SB 330 or some of the other bills that are coming in under specific, they have to ask for specific things. The HAA applies. All these laws apply regardless of how they label it. So we wanted to give you a heads up, Commissioner Luxenberg, in response to your question, that you're gonna have multi-unit projects coming forward, you may perhaps as early as July, and give you the opportunity to kind of... |
| 00:42:51.82 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I'm really going to be. |
| 00:42:53.23 | Mary Wagner | the digestive program. |
| 00:42:53.64 | Jeffery Luxenberg | So we need to be aware of the statute, that it will affect us. |
| 00:42:56.02 | Mary Wagner | Yep, exactly. |
| 00:42:58.07 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I mean, one of the, I mean, the Napa farms thing with three units above, if we had decided that we would have, there would have been no logic for this, but if we had decided to reduce that from three units to two units, for some reason, this act would apply there as well. Is that correct? |
| 00:43:19.98 | Mary Wagner | If it met the definition of a mixed use that included two thirds of the square footage being devoted to residential and I don't know if it met that trigger or not. |
| 00:43:29.99 | Jeffery Luxenberg | it had two floors above and one floor on the ground floor so but uh i don't know if it's a volume discussion because the first floor was higher but but so uh i guess so i understand this is if we have something more than one unit this act applies we need to be aware of this act uh as we're doing our review and in in some cases, it might be inconsistent. I think this is where Chair Fellow was going with some of the findings we have to make. And other, this could be contradictory with some other findings that we have to make with regard to trees, views, or whatever. |
| 00:43:53.93 | Andrew Junius | Thank you. |
| 00:44:10.62 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Well, I think, I think. |
| 00:44:10.81 | Mary Wagner | Well, I think we're pretty good. Yeah, I think what we're gonna have to do is make sure that those particular items are objective. and not subjective. |
| 00:44:21.40 | Kristina Feller | Exactly. Exactly right. That's exactly right. Um, And then commissioner side, do you have questions for? of friends. |
| 00:44:30.95 | Nastassya Saad | Oh, my God. I think I'm trying to wrap my head around the whole CONCEPT, I THINK I WAS thinking what Commissioner Luxembourg um, WAS ESSENTIALLY THINKING IN TERMS OF know our jurisdiction unless I'm misunderstanding it does seem like it may be change it to a certain capacity, but what I'm wondering is, IF WE'RE TAKING THIS INTO CONSIDERATION, is, would there be a change? Is there a need to change any of of the code that we currently have, like on the design review on the on the standards that we have is that. up for debate or has the city looked at this in relation to our like, for example, height and design review, right? There's extra findings. um, Do you want to take that one, Lily? Sure. Sorry, Commissioner Sun. Sure, no, that's great. |
| 00:45:21.33 | Mary Wagner | I like that one, Lily. |
| 00:45:21.97 | Director Whelan | Thank you. |
| 00:45:22.22 | Mary Wagner | or, |
| 00:45:22.81 | Director Whelan | Sure. |
| 00:45:23.25 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:45:23.61 | Director Whelan | Sorry, Commissioner Sussman. THE CITY. You're on the right track, Commissioner Saad, so that we will need to do some targeted changes to our zoning ordinance to make our findings more objective, in particular for the design review findings. We started on this in 2019 with a, collaborative group of Marin County, all Marin County jurisdictions. We all pitched in together. and use SB2 funds to hire a consultant to to start working on this for all of us. That draft work is completed And it's a toolkit. And so essentially it was made so that jurisdictions can kind of pick and choose. different standards that they'd like. in their city. The challenge with the toolkit as it has been developed is it's essentially a form-based code. So it's very different. It's a very different type of looking at zoning Looking at development in a city than a traditional zoning ordinance and certainly different than the way that that City of Sausalito has handled zoning over all of our years. So I think that it will be challenging to move forward with the toolkit that was developed. There might be some good nuggets in there that we can draw on. So I definitely think that using the toolkit in consideration while we look at our code will be helpful. But I do think that we will need to actually go into our findings and tinker with them to make them objective. |
| 00:47:03.52 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 00:47:03.56 | Director Whelan | If I could. |
| 00:47:04.99 | Mary Wagner | Sorry. No, I think Chair Feller, you touched on this too, you know, with respect to some of the unique characteristics of Sausalito and how it's hard to kind of you know, look for a kind of a formulaic approach to some of these things. I do think we can draw on some other jurisdictions that have maybe not the same characteristics, but similar you know, other hillside communities, other communities with water views, other communities with pretty much fully built out communities that are dealing with similar types of issues. So we'll definitely look to those resources as well. |
| 00:47:41.49 | Director Whelan | And I have been working actually a little bit with Piedmont. I've reached out to the director in Piedmont to pick his brain about how they're handling this. Because I think Piedmont does have a view ordinance as well, so I am trying to reach out to get some information from other jurisdictions. |
| 00:48:00.12 | Mary Wagner | Yeah, definitely our neighbors to the north, particularly Teberon comes to mind. I know their Trees and Views ordinance was um, We've looked at that in the past, maybe not particularly their zoning regulations, but we will look You know, Tiburon, Belvedere, Mill Valley, All of those jurisdictions may be helpful as well. |
| 00:48:21.28 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Is this due to the amendments? Because this ordinance has been in place for 39 years, and some of our standards were developed probably after that. Is this due to the amendments that make this thing stronger, Or was it always there and nobody was paying attention |
| 00:48:40.52 | Mary Wagner | I think it's a combination of the two. |
| 00:48:44.99 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 00:48:45.03 | Andrew Junius | Thank you. |
| 00:48:45.04 | Mary Wagner | But it's definitely come to the forefront |
| 00:48:45.09 | Andrew Junius | Thank you. |
| 00:48:47.98 | Mary Wagner | with all the focus on housing. and the development of more housing units, and it's become more it's been given more teeth and more restrictions. |
| 00:49:01.19 | Kristina Feller | Amen. Commissioner Saad, I wanted to go back to you. I think you might have had another |
| 00:49:06.91 | Nastassya Saad | I'm sorry. Yeah, I have I don't know how to ask it. I'm wondering if because I know there's usually 10 days for an appeal after decision is DETERMINED. but, Can somebody. appeal a decision that's already been made according to our current set of findings and use this as. their backing Is there anything retroactive here? here that can come out of this coming to the forefront or is that kind of closed case |
| 00:49:42.23 | Mary Wagner | So absent having filed an appeal that would give them the ability to then take it to a judicial level, no. You know, so if somebody somebody has to exhaust their administrative remedies and still in order to proceed to a court case, so they would have I can't think of any project. that would have the ability to kind of go backwards. Thank you. Okay, but moving forward. And again, it only applies to a denial. |
| 00:50:05.94 | Nastassya Saad | Yeah. And again, |
| 00:50:09.38 | Mary Wagner | for a reduction in density. So if a project is approved, the HAA doesn't apply. If you condition a project that doesn't have any impact on its density, That's not a problem. So you still have a lot of authority It's just really anything that either outright denies a project or reduces its density that is subject to the haa OKAY. |
| 00:50:39.35 | Kristina Feller | It's a good question, though, Commissioner Hassan. Very good. Thank you. I think I, |
| 00:50:43.67 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 00:50:43.74 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:50:44.43 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 00:50:44.62 | Kristina Feller | AND I THINK IT'S A GOOD |
| 00:50:44.97 | Nastassya Saad | CHAIR FELLERY. |
| 00:50:46.14 | Kristina Feller | Sure, no, let's keep talking about it. Let me ask the Vice Chair Graf if he has questions. |
| 00:50:52.90 | Richard Graef | Um, Well, I can certainly understand the intent of this Um, act. Um, I was kind of wondering again, you know, when it gets down to applying the standards, you know, objective and subjective that it maybe in our town parking might become a real issue and some of the discussions about multi-unit developments because We already have a problem just trying to find parking for an ADU. around here so I could see where that might get to be a stumbling block in the future. I think it's a good thing. |
| 00:51:39.46 | Kristina Feller | Really good point too. Thank you. |
| 00:51:41.23 | Richard Graef | Yeah, I mean, I see all the issues about there are a lot of subjective and quality of life kind of criteria that we use in Sausalito that are I know. hard to call objective. We try to objectivize them in our findings, but I know sometimes it's difficult. but yeah. |
| 00:52:08.74 | Mary Wagner | Chair Feller, if I may, on that parking example specifically, that's a really interesting one and certainly something that you guys all observed through the ADU ordinance discussions on how difficult it is to park a project to begin with, and then you have the state waived parking requirements But a project would have to come in and show that it can park its project, if you will. And I'll look to Lily to clarify if she has anything to add. But if a multifamily residential development comes in and the code says it requires three parking spaces, they have to have those three parking spaces or somehow be able to apply for some kind of bonus that would waive that. So if they don't meet that standard, then they haven't met the objective standards of the city. |
| 00:52:55.40 | Director Whelan | And a good way to think about it too is when we bring you development projects in our staff report, we typically have that table on compliance with the zoning standards. And so that goes through height and parking and FAR and building coverage. All of those standards are our objective in our ordinance. Those are all formula based or numerical. objective standards, we're not concerned about that. part of our zoning ordinance. I think what we're focused on is the findings that are required to be made for design review permits. and making sure that those are objective. |
| 00:53:34.53 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 00:53:34.55 | Richard Graef | Got it. |
| 00:53:35.82 | Kristina Feller | Right. I just wanted to, I have a couple comments and questions here, but I want to just sort of throw out the Yeah, the whole issue... that it's still baffling and alarming to me about overlays uh throughout the city and particularly in the marine ship where we tried to have a carve out of that where this commission twice unanimously voted down overlays This is the kind of thing where if you have a residential overlay in areas that like in the Marin ship that are on the water, And you have the potential blocking views should you do a development there. these are the kinds of areas that are that gray area in my opinion that I'd be concerned about not about whatever the use of that of that structure might be, but the fact that that is much more subjective. And it isn't objective at all. And so I think that we have to be really mindful of this. and I would, I would request that staff agendize future items in the short term here sometime very soon. where we can actually workshop the implications of this and review theoretical, hypothetical, whatever you want to call it, Um, developments that are not tied to any particular site or any particular owner or developer, but just sort of a hypothetical so we can really work through the implications potentially of this and the impact it might have on us. So that can better inform us how to, be more objective with our language and our ordinances. Is that something we can do, Director Whelan? |
| 00:55:35.54 | Director Whelan | Yeah, definitely. That is something that we can do. We can have a study session to discuss this further. What I might recommend if the commission is amenable is to if you'd like to form a subcommittee, then staff can work with the two planning commissioners and then we can bring back as a team something to the planning commission. and have a dialogue. So, if that makes sense. And then we would have some dedicated, a dedicated subcommittee to work on advancing an ordinance as well. |
| 00:56:04.86 | Kristina Feller | Can we put that on the agenda for our June meeting, our first June meeting, which I believe is the second, if I'm recalling that correctly. And the reason I'm asking to, punt that from this meeting to the next. is that we will have a full five body commission And we will have our new commissioner um, in. in his seat. |
| 00:56:28.01 | Director Whelan | Yeah, definitely. We can add an agenda item to form a subcommittee for the purpose of crafting these standards. |
| 00:56:34.24 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Please. That would be great. Thank you. |
| 00:56:39.68 | Mary Wagner | And Chair Feller, if I may too, but I think your point is really well taken with respect, you know, because the housing element's right around the corner as well, so. I think you're going to be looking at all all the areas in town. and trying to determine what sites are appropriate for housing. |
| 00:56:59.31 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, I mean, I think we're built, you know, if we're not careful, there'll be a lot of conflict. just in terms of interpreting ordinances and application of of the housing accountability act and so on so let's let's uh Let's clean that up now while we're ahead of it and make and be clear and concise. So applicants are clear what they need to do. Property owners are clear. Commissioners are clear. Land use attorneys are clear. Everyone's clear. I think I really, really appreciate you flagging this, Mary and Lily, to this commission now, it's really appreciated. Can I just ask one more question? And you had mentioned emergency shelters and sort of transitional. I'm not sure. and transitional meaning for residential as well, I'm assuming. Is there anything as you are both more familiar with some of these requirements than we are at this time, Is there anything specific to water-based transitional or emergency as separate from like a more traditional land-based that we need to be aware of in our future thinking and debate here as a commission. |
| 00:58:30.61 | Mary Wagner | Go ahead, Lillie. Thank you. |
| 00:58:32.38 | Andrew Junius | Thank you. |
| 00:58:32.48 | Mary Wagner | Nothing that I'm aware of. you know, the water-based housing or water-based application of land uses, you know, other than the very traditional or even maybe not so traditional houseboats, you know, the houseboat community in Sausalito was rather unique. the Galilee community is rather unique It's interesting that HCD now, we have found, talks about liveaboards as being counting towards your arena, largely due to the efforts or probably exclusively due to the efforts of the city of Sausalito in its last housing element. So we may be breaking new ground with other types of water-based uses as well. |
| 00:59:17.20 | Director Whelan | Okay. |
| 00:59:17.45 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 00:59:19.22 | Director Whelan | Thank you. |
| 00:59:19.24 | Kristina Feller | Nothing I'm aware of, Chair Fowler. Cool, well, I appreciate that. Okay. And then as it relates, this is my last question, as it relates to the HAA, Um, How is it used or applied? if there's, a change of use of a building. So as an example, if we have If there's some more existing like industrial type of warehouse or a commercial building that you are renovating and turning into loft space or something like that. how does this apply to, in essence, what is an adaptive reuse of a building? into residential. |
| 01:00:12.24 | Mary Wagner | So if it's a residential use and it's more than one unit, the Housing Accountability Act applies. If it's a mixed use project, then we'd have to look at the percentage of the residential portion of the development. |
| 01:00:26.87 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 01:00:26.89 | Director Whelan | Okay. Just to add to that as well, the the project would need to comply with the zoning as well. So absolutely. |
| 01:00:36.16 | Mary Wagner | Absolutely. |
| 01:00:36.80 | Director Whelan | you know, a project, a housing project, for example, on an industrial site that doesn't allow housing, wouldn't be allowed on its face. |
| 01:00:47.85 | Mary Wagner | Yeah. for what it's worth, the legislative act of, you know, the zoning ordinance amendment that allows housing and residential uses in different zones or even the general plan or specific plan. There's case law out there that that, that particular legislative action isn't subject to the HAA. So if the city's considering rezoning, you have apps in a specific project, so you have no specific project, but you're looking at making a commercial, a mixed use zone or something along those lines, that legislative act isn't considered |
| 01:01:08.12 | Andrew Junius | Yeah. Thank you. |
| 01:01:20.62 | Mary Wagner | a residential housing development project for its purposes of the HAA. |
| 01:01:26.73 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Thank you. Does any commissioner have any additional questions of staff regarding the HAA at this time? |
| 01:01:39.27 | Richard Graef | only that we will be able to look more in more detail at that act, right? Um, like the full text of it or is it long that |
| 01:01:53.27 | Mary Wagner | Absolutely. It's one statute with a bazillion subparts. What I'd be happy to do is, um, provide, you know, Lily with a PDF as well as a link to the HCV technical advice memo, which I think It's lengthy, but it's useful. It has some FAQs at the end. that may be of interest to commissioners and then any other materials that Lily you know, has run across in her in her planning world that we think could be helpful. We're happy to provide those. |
| 01:02:30.08 | Kristina Feller | That would be great. That would be really helpful. Vice Chair Graff, since we're gonna have this agendized for a future, meeting workshop, um, shortly I mean this needs to be done very soon that would require a staff report as well. So I'm hoping that there'll be additional material or analyses in a staff report that Director Whelan and her team prepares, I'm sure with support from |
| 01:02:53.77 | Andrew Junius | I'm sorry. |
| 01:03:01.11 | Kristina Feller | our city attorney, Mary Wagner, which will be helpful. But if there's any bedtime reading that you can forward in the short term, that would be great too. |
| 01:03:12.25 | Mary Wagner | Absolutely, and Chair Feller, I concur with your community development director that establishing a two-member working group for us to get into the real weeds with outside you know, the constraints that you have when you have a lot of other projects on the agenda of the planning commission. would be very helpful and it would be probably helpful to do that before bringing even the workshop forward to the planning commission that would be my recommendation and suggestion. |
| 01:03:37.64 | Kristina Feller | Yes, and I will be making those appointments at our next hearing. Perfect. Next, was it Wednesday? The 8th. The 8th. |
| 01:03:41.58 | Mary Wagner | Perfect. They. Thank you. |
| 01:03:45.20 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 01:03:45.24 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 01:03:45.70 | Kristina Feller | Jalilu? City Council. |
| 01:03:51.67 | Kristina Feller | We're not, no, we'll do it. I think that's on the second. We'll do. |
| 01:03:55.28 | Mary Wagner | Okay. |
| 01:03:56.12 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 01:03:57.36 | Mary Wagner | Sorry about that. |
| 01:03:57.41 | Kristina Feller | I'm just gonna get you. I know, many meetings, it's right, it's true. All right, terrific. Well, thank you both very much. I think at this time, we're ready for the next item on the agenda. |
| 01:04:10.10 | Mary Wagner | Chair Feller, did we take public comment? |
| 01:04:13.24 | Kristina Feller | Do we take public schools? |
| 01:04:13.98 | Mary Wagner | comment on these. You take public comment on every item on your agenda. |
| 01:04:16.59 | Kristina Feller | every item on your agenda. Okay, no, we did not. So thank you. Thank you for being here and reminding me At this time, I'd like to open public comment on this item. Director Whelan, I don't think, I think everyone that's on here was on here before so we don't need any more instructions. So at this time I'm looking for raised hands, you can raise your hand in the Zoom application. Um, in the bottom bar under reactions. and if you're on a cell phone, it's star nine. So I am not seeing any raised hands at this time. I'm going to go ahead and close public comment. And again, thank you, Mary. So item 4C late mail policy discussion, director Whalen. Thank you. |
| 01:05:11.91 | Director Whelan | Thank you Chair Feller. I think I am successfully sharing my screen. |
| 01:05:17.38 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 01:05:17.39 | Director Whelan | Yeah, we can see. Excellent. Thank you. So this item here is a brief discussion of our late mail policy. In 2018, the Commission asked staff to review the city's lake map policy and to explore possibilities for modification The request was made because members of the public occasionally submit comment letters the day of the meeting or even at the meeting. which the commissioners, give the commissioners little to no time to read the mail prior to the start of the meeting. 2018 the city made some changes to the late mail policy at that time. and additional changes were made during COVID to accommodate 100% electronics. written correspondence and participation online. However, the issue of late mail correspondence, particularly within hours of a hearing or during a hearing continues to be challenging. so this item is brief but i am going to briefly discuss our current policy practices of other marin county county jurisdictions and then a possible change to our policy that might help |
| 01:06:24.81 | Director Whelan | So on the top, is an example of a public notice that staff currently mails to neighboring property owners. And. The language explains the city's policy on public comments, which is to submit comments by 4.30 p.m. on the day of the hearing. comments received prior to finalization of a given staff report are included in the planning commission packet and then comments received after that deadline are considered late now. and late mail is forwarded to the planning commissioners and posted online. as soon as we can feasibly possible. feasibly do that. Currently staff verbally encourages applicants and interested parties to submit their comments early. However, staff cannot prevent a member of the public from submitting correspondence or materials hours before or at the public hearing. And there are a couple of reasons for this. One, due process considerations require the ability to be heard before the public body, and it could be argued that any policy Rejecting the submittal of late mail would infringe on this right. And then two, by including the bold statement that's on the screen here, in our public notices, which comes from government code. if someone challenges the decision of the Planning Commission hearing in court, this statement limits the issues that can be raised in court to those raised at the public hearing or in written correspondence delivered. or prior to the public hearing. And this provides a lot of level of protection for the planning commission decisions, but also requires written correspondence to be accepted up to and at the public hearing. When late mail is received, the commission does have the option to take a break and read the materials or continue the item as, as necessary. |
| 01:08:14.72 | Director Whelan | In 2018, staff surveyed other Marin County jurisdictions about their late mail policies and the results are summarized on the screen. While some Marin County jurisdictions like Tiburon include a statement about If late mail is received within two days of the hearing, it may not be read or considered. No other Marin County city. has a an official hard deadline for late mail. other than the end of the public comment period. Similar to Sausalito, other jurisdictions encourage and suggest that the to the public that they submit their comments early. |
| 01:08:51.06 | Director Whelan | With consideration stated previously, the best available option to enhance the public notice statement that encourages but does not require the public to submit late mail by a certain date and time before the meeting. that includes the public the Planning Commission member distribution list to direct late mail to. And that would be a change from what we're doing right now. So late mail would have we would have a deadline of a week before the hearing to provide written comments that would be included in the staff report. And then anything sent after that, would be sent to the PC at Sausalito.gov and the . project planner. We're also recommending this statement that Folks are encouraged to submit late mail by noon on the Monday prior to the meeting to allow commissioners to read and consider the submission. I think that That concludes the our little presentation here and we're available for discussion and questions you might have. |
| 01:09:59.43 | Kristina Feller | Great, thank you so much, Director Whelan. Um, I'm actually going to start off on this item. Typically I defer to my fellow commissioners first, but there's something that I really want to stress to those listening to this hearing, either currently or potentially in the future on the recording. And that is we really, really want to hear from you. we encourage you to reach out to us. We encourage the correspondence on items on the agenda or not on an agenda. this is a public commission, this is a public commission you know, here for the community and to do the community's business and the city's business. So we really, really do want to hear from you. That being said, I want, the public to think about a couple things that are important about commenting to us. Number one, if you wait until the last minute to send us your comments, it's possible that We don't have time to read it before the hearing starts. Many, many times this commission gets late male correspondence during a hearing. And that just is not reasonable to think that your comments, which we want to hear from and are important, can be taken into consideration in a timely way. So please, please be be reasonable about our ability to be able to read everything either before hearing and don't expect us to be reading it during because we we give our undivided attention to the hearing and not looking at our email. The other thing I'd like the public to think about in your public comments is ensure that you provide them to the city and to us prior to those staff reports being published to us. because your comments are important, your perspectives are important, and they can and have and will continue to shape the way this commission looks at things, interprets things, considerations that we might not be aware of because we are not your neighbor or so on and so forth. So think about trying to get your comments into the city and to the staff and to us so they can be considered in the staff report that is actually published to us. So I just wanted to start out with that because you know, we really do rely on the community. We do rely on on your perspective or what you see or what you hear, how you're interpreting something. It isn't very, very important to us. but trying to give us that input early, often, and so on. So it can be considered in our debates together. and the public process that you're witnessing now as you are participating this evening and look at this hearing in the future. So I just wanted to start us off there. Let's see, Commissioner Saad, let's start with you. |
| 01:13:21.65 | Nastassya Saad | Yeah, I think that was really... Well said. CHAIR FELLER, AND HOPEFULLY while we have very few, if any, members of the public here, I don't know if we want to... I don't know if we can send out something like a statement from the Planning Commission. um, to the public like in the current and maybe it's a city question for Director Whalen or the city attorney, cause I don't know what CONSTITUTES I'm always scared of the Brown Act. So I'm never sure in terms of our communication, but I think, I mean, what you just articulated is so thoughtful and I, I definitely agree. I'm sure my, fellow commissioners agree. I wonder if it's something that we could even have the opportunity to up. solicit or give that type of feedback to the community so that they can actually hear what you had to say. Maybe it's something we've crafted as a team. So I would say that for one, because that was, you know, I'm hoping people will hear what you said, but in the off chance they don't. to push that out to the community. I think that would be huge. The other thing I was just wondering, like from a legal standpoint, because I know, um, A LOT OF US don't have a chance to read them. I personally have been just drowning in personal work right up until I go into a commission meeting. So I get a little overwhelmed when I check my email as I'm logging in and I feel really guilty that I haven't read those late mails that have come in at 4 or 5 p.m. Um, Are we, obligated in any way to read them or? Is there something that protects us from just saying, hey, I just, I never saw that. I didn't read that. Cause I know we're not taking those breaks as some of the other cities are to stop and read during a meeting. What? happens to those or to us. |
| 01:15:18.94 | Mary Wagner | Great question. I mean, and I don't think anything happens, you know, to a commissioner, certainly not individually. I have seen some jurisdictions clarify that late mail that you get after a certain point, it just cannot be read. You know, it's just physically impossible. for the Commission to digest. You've gotten things so lengthy that you wouldn't have had time to read them, you know, two hours before a hearing much less 20 minutes are delivered at the time of the hearing. I think it's incumbent upon somebody who delivers a piece of light mail that late to come and talk to the commission. and say, hey, I submitted a 20 page late mail letter. Here's the gist of it so that you have an understanding. And then if it's important to the commission you know, to really you delve into that, then you either take a break or you continue an item or something along those lines. We struggle with this, particularly with some of the more controversial projects that have a lot of attorneys involved, frankly, because I'll just say it as you well know, they're establishing their case. They're laying the groundwork for the arguments that they're gonna make on appeal. and arguments that they may make in the future. So while we can't prevent it from happening, I think there are tools we can put in place to help the Commission deal with it and the Council too. who's struggled with that. And again, some of those are maybe taking a minute to take a break if it's if it's important and if we have staff as staff feel that it's important for the commission to consider. |
| 01:16:48.10 | Carolyn Riddell | Thank you. |
| 01:16:48.14 | Andrew Junius | Thank you. |
| 01:16:51.68 | Mary Wagner | new or different information, it's incumbent upon us to let you know that. So those are my thoughts in response to that question. |
| 01:17:00.20 | Nastassya Saad | And then Mary, do you know as a planning commission, are we able to draft some statement as a team or probably signed off Chair Feller is comfortable with that and put something in the sauce, like in the currants or send something out from from Ena Abbott Chambers, something that goes to the community that, |
| 01:17:22.31 | Mary Wagner | So one, I applaud and love the fact that you're thinking about the Brown Act, that, you know, to a city of... All I ever think about every time I talk to anyone. |
| 01:17:22.34 | Nastassya Saad | So, Thank you. Yeah. |
| 01:17:27.42 | Nastassya Saad | There's a city of dreams forecast. All I ever think about every time I talk to anyone. |
| 01:17:30.27 | Mary Wagner | For what it's worth, my children tell me they're sick of hearing me say the words Brown Act now that I work from home all the time. But yeah, so no problem with the Brown Act there, particularly if the commission wanted to develop a statement that it issued as a commission. I think there are opportunities for information to go out in the currents, what format that takes and who kind of, |
| 01:17:50.44 | Andrew Junius | you THE FAMILY. |
| 01:17:51.62 | Mary Wagner | crafts it, I would look to Lily for some help with. We often see things in the currents like know it's it's fire safety season so you have to do x or or whatever it is and i don't know if those messages are helped Thank you. along by some of the boards and commissions. Any thoughts on that? |
| 01:18:09.90 | Director Whelan | I was just thinking that we might be able to turn this into an informational educational message in the currents about the public hearing process and include you know, that statement from the commission that really encouraging people to get involved early on in their projects and submit their written comments if they have concerns or if they love a project too, because you want to hear that as well. So I think that we could work on crafting something that would be a little bit more holistic and educational, and then that piece would fit nicely into that. that article as well. |
| 01:18:46.80 | Nastassya Saad | and I'll turn it back obviously to the commission Chair Feller if that's something you guys are even interested in or comfortable with. But I just thought you articulated those points really well It'd be a myth not to be heard by the community. |
| 01:18:58.33 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, I mean, the public are also our unofficial eyes and ears. I mean, I'm a firm believer that we can't fix or manage or address a problem that we are unaware of. And so I encourage everybody to come and make comment to this commission and the other commissions of the city. and City Council. I think it's important to make use of a public comment time on items, not on the agenda items on the agenda. letters and so on. You know, we definitely need to take and maintain a pulse of the city And they need to help us do that. And so I really do encourage that. Their comments and perspectives are incredibly important to us. And, you know, with that said, you know, I would, be interested in entertaining the idea of crafting certain language about if we get late mail, after the time that the hearing has started, the published time of the hearing has started, I think all bets are off. Then you need to come and, and either as attorney Wagner said, you know, tell us the gist of what you're public comments for or reiterate your public comments if the letter's not more than three minutes and read it to us, something like that. But it's not reasonable. to think or expect us to sit here and read email as we're sitting in a hearing. This is a public hearing. We're here doing the city's business and the community's business. So that deserves our undivided attention. So don't think we're looking at emails. |
| 01:20:52.12 | Mary Wagner | And Chair Feller, as you state that too, I mean, I think sometimes the most lengthy things you get are, you know, applicant appellate types, of communications maybe more And not maybe not quite as much at the commission level as you have on appeals to the council. And those parties really do have ample notice of what the issues are. particularly when they get up to the council. I know the council struggles with this same issue. |
| 01:21:17.99 | Andrew Junius | Sure. |
| 01:21:18.24 | Mary Wagner | And the applicant in particular is given a nice amount of time by the commission to present their case. So, you know, they do have an opportunity to really inform you if they've put something into the record at a relatively late time as to why. and what the substance of that is. |
| 01:21:36.48 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, and I'm sure we all understand that lawyers have their strategies with bombarding at the last minute whatever, but we certainly are no stranger to that and understand that. Let me allow Commissioner Luxenberg to have a chance to make comment. And then after that, Vice Chair Graff. |
| 01:21:59.50 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you, Chair Fowler. I concur with all of the things you said. I think we should strongly encourage people to get stuck in before the staff reports are prepared. I think we also need to deal with the reality that people are submitting stuff after the date of the staff report. Maybe it's incumbent upon staff and mostly contract staff because usually it's the controversial projects Well, the biggest issue for me is when we get mail that I was not aware of. So in other words, as Commissioner Saad said, if you're tied up for the two or three hours before a meeting and you start the meeting, forget the stuff that comes in the meeting and people will know you can't read it during the meeting. But stuff that came in two hours before the meeting and you didn't know it was there, and then somebody talks about about something that was submitted if staff could indicate since the time of the staff report there have been a series of light mail including things this afternoon just so you're aware and not sort of summarize them because that's that's a little ominous for the staff to do but at least flag that there might have been email you didn't see. So you at least know it exists. And then I would strongly encourage, in addition to people getting in on time, if they don't get in on time, that they come to the meeting and do what the city attorney Wagner said and explain what they want to say in the time they have have to do that I would also discourage them from submitting stuff before the staff and the staff meeting goes out then resubmitting it as late mail in case we didn't see it because I've seen that they explain it once and then they send it again and then they send it. And it's a new letter and it's changed slightly, but it's the same stuff. And so you never know what's new. I mean, that's really frustrating when you're getting a 20-page document, most of which was submitted already. So again, I guess my only add to your comments would be if the staff could just flag, these things came in this afternoon. You may not have read them, just so you know that they exist. I mean, it's sort of interesting. This is a Brown Act question. We can read late mail during a meeting, but we can't use email during a meeting. Isn't that a Brown Act violation? We can't communicate with other members because of the Brown Act, but we can read email during a meeting? Is that a Brown Act violation? |
| 01:24:36.35 | Mary Wagner | So emails that are part of the public record are distinct and different from email or text even communications between either a member of the commission and somebody outside, you know, either from the public that's a due process issue of not acting upon the information that's part of the record. you commissioner should not be emailing or texting each other during a meeting, your conversations should be in public, the fact that we're on Zoom is making it much more difficult. I mean, we've all seen public meetings where people are going like this all the time, You know, you see the big bang. of, but we need to be very cognizant of that, but I think they're distinct issues. So email you received as late mail, that's part of the public record, is different than, information that's outside of the public record, which is problematic. |
| 01:25:28.44 | Andrew Junius | Thank you. |
| 01:25:28.48 | Mary Wagner | And thank you for organizing the Brown Act also, Commissioner. Yeah. |
| 01:25:28.49 | Jeffery Luxenberg | And thank you for being here. Yeah, I mean, if we were on a dais and we kept looking at our email to see what the late mail is, it looks a little suspicious to me. So, you know, I guess, Lily, if you can encourage your staff, one, to summarize anything that they think was important that came in late, but also if they thought it was important enough for us to read it, that we do take the five minute break to do it, at least so we can see what it was. And, you know, again, I don't wanna encourage anybody to actually do it. So I'm going back to Chair Fellow's comments that we should encourage people to get stuff in before the staff report is prepared. |
| 01:26:13.11 | Mary Wagner | And to that, sorry, Commissioner Luxenberg, to that, the point you raised as well, if a commissioner does receive information outside of |
| 01:26:13.43 | Jeffery Luxenberg | into the rock. |
| 01:26:23.64 | Mary Wagner | the information that's been provided as part of the public record. that should be announced if you're utilizing that to make your decision. Even if I've seen examples where a commissioner or a council member or some decision maker may go online and say, well, hey, I found this whatever it is, it's important that that be identified. It's discouraged. from happening and but it's if you do if that does occur it should be identified and included as part of the record |
| 01:26:54.42 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Thank you. |
| 01:26:56.14 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 01:26:56.18 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 01:26:56.80 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 01:26:57.63 | Kristina Feller | I'm Vice Chair Grant. |
| 01:26:59.81 | Richard Graef | Um... Thanks, Chair Feller. Well, I would concur with my fellow commissioners on trying to get a grip on this. educating the public is certainly called for. I, in the, in the, the currents where there's a little description of the various different bodies and what their responsibilities are. that might be a good place to summarize the public mail, uh... procedure and limitations So it's always there and it's repeated. um, So I agree, we should get that into the current situation. Um, getting the very late mail just as you're sitting down at the dais or in our cases that are or whatever. is frustrating and it's very difficult to digest and assess a lot of that information. I'm interested in the concept that we either have to interrupt the meeting, which might Um, Um, cause some people to get really annoyed because we're taking time out. to deal with stuff that should have been dealt with earlier. But maybe we need to do that. from time to time, if we're getting late mail, that's significant. I think that's a good question. and it's happening more and more all the time. And that is that people are sending mail directly to the commissioners. and we're not getting it through through the planning department. And so we do. Where does that fall into how we regard it? In other words, is that the same importance, the same level of legal weight as something that's delivered officially from the city? So I'm wondering, you know, is that stuff we have to do we absolutely have to pay attention to or is that another item that we could use that we could Um, to continue a meeting based on or take time out to deal with. |
| 01:29:43.60 | Kristina Feller | That's a good question. |
| 01:29:44.10 | Richard Graef | I mean, that bothers me that I get, sometimes we get tons of stuff sent personally that does not come from the city. |
| 01:29:52.59 | Andrew Junius | FACE. |
| 01:29:52.94 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Are you suggesting that stuff coming to you other than the PC at Sausalito.gov? |
| 01:29:52.96 | Andrew Junius | Thank you. |
| 01:29:52.98 | Kristina Feller | Are you? |
| 01:29:53.69 | Andrew Junius | Thank you. |
| 01:29:53.72 | Carolyn Riddell | Thank you. |
| 01:29:59.41 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, this does happen. |
| 01:30:01.21 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I'm not sure. Thank you. |
| 01:30:01.77 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 01:30:01.79 | Andrew Junius | Thank you. |
| 01:30:02.49 | Kristina Feller | all the time, but I would suggest first and foremost, is make sure absolutely everything is copied. to the city. And, um, forward everything to the city so there is a comprehensive administrative record with the city. And I would have let the city respond to that. whoever's sending you emails as I have asked them to do. directly to say that all that official communication needs to go to the city. |
| 01:30:35.48 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Okay, I haven't gotten anything other than it comes from PC at Sausalito.gov. And I also assume, and I hope I'm correct, that PC at Sausalito.gov |
| 01:30:38.83 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 01:30:45.36 | Jeffery Luxenberg | not only goes to each of us, but it also goes to the planning department as well, so I assume that's just part of the record. |
| 01:30:49.37 | Director Whelan | but, |
| 01:30:54.57 | Kristina Feller | If it's correct, Commissioner Lipsenberg. But regarding vice chair graphs issue, I know I dove in there, but director Whalen, do you have any other advice or instruction to any of us in that particular case? |
| 01:31:10.23 | Director Whelan | Thank you, Chair Feller. So definitely if commissioners receive individual emails from the public, we need to first get those to staff so that we can get those to the entire commission and publish them as a part of the record. And then I think, the staff could reach out to the person who sent the email and let them know that the proper way to reach out to the commission is through the PC at Sausalito.gov address. Mary, do you concur with that? |
| 01:31:44.72 | Mary Wagner | Yeah, it's an interesting one, right? So clearly if somebody emails all five of you on the same email, they're considering that message to the Planning Commission that should be part of your record. If somebody emails you and says, hey, you wanna go get a cup of coffee with me and I'll show you the project and you say no, that wasn't really intended to be part of the record. But certain, so it's a little difficult to tell. I think we should also have a policy if the commission agrees that whether we publish this policy about late mail, it says that late mail is only to be sent or mail about a project. is only to be sent to the Commission at this address. so that you know that all those communications are going. I think things are still gonna slip through the cracks and I agree with Chair Feller that you've got to send it on to the community development director. I think, unfortunately, it's also going to be incumbent upon the commissioners to tell people when you get those emails Hey. You need to send this to either the community development director or PC at Saucelito.gov. so that people, those habits that are ingrained in some of your applicants can become you know, can be changed. |
| 01:32:58.48 | Andrew Junius | Thank you. |
| 01:32:58.59 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 01:33:00.36 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Can I ask a question? Did you change? You said there was, is there a new policy that you brought tonight that moves back to time until noon? Is that what I saw? |
| 01:33:10.09 | Director Whelan | Yeah, the suggestion moves the time to noon for it encourages late mail to be submitted by Monday noon prior to the planning commission meeting. but doesn't, it has to be. |
| 01:33:20.29 | Andrew Junius | Thank you. |
| 01:33:20.30 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Okay. |
| 01:33:21.91 | Director Whelan | but. Thank you. |
| 01:33:23.12 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I like that. And I also want to acknowledge As much as we wanted in before the staff report, some of the late mail is somebody responding that they don't like something in the staff report. So we are going to get some of that. But I like the noon Monday timeline that we encourage, even if it's because that gives them an opportunity to respond to what they saw in the staff report if they are doing that. And but still gives us a couple of days before the meeting. So that, yeah, if that's new, that's great. If it's not new, then that's that's that's great that we advertise it. So. |
| 01:34:03.93 | Kristina Feller | That's a good point, Commissioner Luxenberg. Can we, to that, can we also add that any kind of language that if we receive light mail during a hearing it is not going to be considered at all. Like, you know, someone, I mean, if someone's gone to all the trouble to write something, they run the risk of it not being considered at all in our deliberations and debates and decisions and votes. So I don't want I don't want them coming back to Mary's point later on and saying, Well, but you didn't acknowledge what I sent and you didn't consider it in your deliberation, therefore. were appealing, I mean, that's a monumental waste of time. So is there language that we can include saying that any mail that is received after the published Start time. of the hearing won't be considered unless they come make a public comment. |
| 01:35:16.23 | Mary Wagner | I think I need to look at that for you. I like the concept and I think it's consistent with the government code provision that Lilly referenced earlier about what appeals can be based on and what you're allowed to, bring forward about a project. I just need to do a little bit of work to make sure that it's okay. But I think I like the concept and I have thought the same thing that, you know, once the meeting starts, you know, you shouldn't be receiving email. Perhaps, yeah, and let me work with Lily to see if there are, you know, |
| 01:35:42.22 | Carolyn Riddell | email. |
| 01:35:48.08 | Mary Wagner | I mean, particularly now with Zoom, People should be able, if they want to say something that badly during a meeting, they should be able to join. |
| 01:35:58.91 | Kristina Feller | Yeah. |
| 01:35:59.79 | Mary Wagner | And for what it's worth, there's legislation pending that we may be, even when we're back in person, there may be a requirement that we allow people to continue to participate virtually. |
| 01:36:11.62 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 01:36:11.64 | Nastassya Saad | Oh. |
| 01:36:12.55 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 01:36:15.25 | Nastassya Saad | That would be an |
| 01:36:15.33 | Andrew Junius | ASKED. |
| 01:36:16.68 | Nastassya Saad | Yeah, that would be massive question, Chair Feller. WHEN. when the city receives late mail, what's the, response. Is there like a sort of pre-canned response that is sent back to them. Perhaps that's a question for up. that really... THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 01:36:37.99 | Director Whelan | Thank you. |
| 01:36:38.03 | Andrew Junius | Thank you. |
| 01:36:38.06 | Director Whelan | Thank you. So from the staff, so if staff receives a late mail item, |
| 01:36:42.53 | Andrew Junius | Mm-hmm. |
| 01:36:42.97 | Director Whelan | Thank you. |
| 01:36:42.99 | Andrew Junius | Thank you. |
| 01:36:43.07 | Director Whelan | Oh, the packet's already been published. It's a Monday. We received a late mail item via email. Yeah, we don't have standard canned response. I know that staff typically does acknowledge the late mail item, for the person who sent it and then We get it posted online, obviously, and sent to the commission. um, |
| 01:37:04.86 | Nastassya Saad | Yeah, I don't know if you guys would be comfortable, but maybe that can be there could be a trigger point there, the same trigger point if it is the noon. timeframe on a Monday. that can just say, you know, it's whatever legally it's posted as late mail, but we you know, given the, late submission, we strongly encourage you to come to the meeting. is where I agree with you chair Feller and I think it was Tabor on that that I I think it's a fair I think we all do our best to read the late mail even if it comes in at noon on a Monday and we don't meet till Wednesday, but there are times when we still I know personally I have missed some, So, I would go so far as to say, you know, I like to run approach that says, we can't guarantee you. And so maybe that's a, harsh thing for the community development director to then reply with, but something along the lines Thank you for your email. It's been posted to the agenda. We strongly encourage you to come to the meeting and join public comment as, commissioners may not have a chance to fully review your I don't know what you guys think about that. |
| 01:38:22.89 | Kristina Feller | Interesting idea and interesting concept. Certainly, we always encourage people to also show up at the hearings and voice their concern and hear the debate. Um, and other people's comments. I mean, it's all important to a process, not just a late mail from them. So I think you're... Your point is really good. And I don't know, I mean, Director Whalen, if there's sort of a canned response or, |
| 01:38:47.04 | Carolyn Riddell | I don't know. |
| 01:38:52.05 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. you know, refer them to a policy of some kind. Um, I guess for purposes of what we're doing this evening, I know that there's no specific action required by us at this time. But I think that all the points made by everybody here are, I think, are useful and valuable and it's an important conversation to have. Um, Is the next step for you to work with attorney Wagner and sort of come up with some language or some policy or amendments to it as you did with the Monday 12 noon deadline which I think everyone is likes and maybe come back and back to us? Do you need to do that or? What's the next step? |
| 01:39:40.89 | Director Whelan | Yeah, I think that if we give some time for Mary to consider this and I can talk with Mary and then we can bring something back to the commission at your June, your first meeting in June, if we're able to do that, or certainly the second meeting in June. |
| 01:39:57.57 | Kristina Feller | Great. Absolutely. |
| 01:39:59.53 | Director Whelan | Thank you. And in the meantime, we can implement the noon language and notices that are going out. |
| 01:40:07.43 | Kristina Feller | I'm certainly comfortable with that. I think Commissioner Luxenberg mentioned he liked that Any other comments, Commissioner Saad or Vice Chair Graff? That sounds great. |
| 01:40:19.83 | Richard Graef | That's fine. Yes, please. |
| 01:40:23.71 | Kristina Feller | Let's start there. That sounds good. |
| 01:40:26.13 | Mary Wagner | And Chair Feller, I will... reach out to my colleague in Timuron and find out |
| 01:40:31.76 | Kristina Feller | and, |
| 01:40:34.30 | Mary Wagner | about more about their policy. |
| 01:40:36.20 | Kristina Feller | That'd be great. |
| 01:40:36.39 | Mary Wagner | Great. |
| 01:40:37.96 | Kristina Feller | That's a great resource. That would be great. Okay. |
| 01:40:40.71 | Mary Wagner | But I will tell you, you've all seen the other extremes where staff actually reads late mail into the record. So that could be very time consuming. |
| 01:40:49.23 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, you know. Definitely watch that too. Okay. Very good then, thank you. Thank you both for the discussion, the presentation, the ideas, and thank you to the commissioners as well. Um, I think that probably concludes this particular item on our agenda. The next item, oh, I guess I should- Do you have to take public comment? |
| 01:41:14.12 | Nastassya Saad | I guess I should. |
| 01:41:15.82 | Kristina Feller | I know because there's no action tonight. I'm rolling right past it. My apologies and my mistakes. At this time, I'd like to take public comment on this particular item. If you could please raise your hand in the Zoom application or star nine on your phones. |
| 01:41:37.09 | Kristina Feller | I am not seeing any raised hands at this time, so I'm gonna close public comment. The next item on the agenda is item 4D, which is signage regulations in Sausalito. Director Whelan. |
| 01:41:54.06 | Director Whelan | rounding out here your items for the night. Great. So this at a recent planning commission meeting, the commission requested an update on signage regulations in Sausalito. give you a brief overview here of regulations and then we can have a discussion if the commission would like or you know you could ask questions if you'd like |
| 01:42:23.75 | Director Whelan | the Signage regulations in South Slita are codified in Chapter 1042 of the Municipal Code. Among the many purposes of the signage regulations, the codes aim to establish sign and awning regulations which are equitable to all businesses. also to promote commerce and create a more attractive economic and business climate. and to promote the attractive appearance of the city by regulating the design character location, number, type, quality of materials, scale, color, illumination and maintenance of signs and awnings. |
| 01:43:01.38 | Director Whelan | A sign is defined in the code as any visual device or representation designed or used for communicating a message or identifying or attracting attention to a premise, product, service, person, organization, business, or event. Unless provided for by an exception in the code, all signage in Sausalito must receive a signed permit and a building permit if applicable from the community development department. |
| 01:43:31.75 | Director Whelan | There are a number of sign categories in the code, including temporary or limited time duration signage. commercial signage that directly or indirectly names, advertises, or calls attention to a business product service, business product or service. And then we also have non-commercial signs convey a non-commercial message, including commentary on social, political, educational religious, scientific, artistic, philosophical, or charitable subjects. And then lastly, the code ADDEMP. defines an illegal sign as any sign erected without first complying with all ordinances and regulations in effect at the time of its installation. This slide provides a summary of the types of temporary signs that are allowed in Sausalito without the requirement for a sign permit. So as long as the signage complies with the performance standards in the code, The performance standards in the code specify the materials, size, and time limits for temporary signs. Some examples of temporary signage are grand opening banners for businesses, real estate signs, and campaign signs. |
| 01:44:46.85 | Director Whelan | This slide provides an overview of the sign types allowed without permits in Sausalito permanently. which include things like building directory signs, onsite fuel signs, street addresses and safety and directional signage. |
| 01:45:07.97 | Director Whelan | Signs not allowed in Sausalito include inflated signs. Bench signs. Penance with commercial advertising and billboards, among others that are on the screen here. And none of these photos are from Sausalito. |
| 01:45:30.47 | Director Whelan | This slide provides a listing of sign types allowed with a permit. which requires either an administrative staff level review or Planning Commission review. And some of the types of hermits assigned here are I'm not sure. some of the signs that you've seen recently wall signs, awning signs, Um, and Windows signs as well. |
| 01:45:59.24 | Director Whelan | For the sign type on the box, prior slide, the signs that we just looked at. Either an administrative review or a planning commission review is required in order to approve that sign. Historic reservation review is also required for certain project sites. |
| 01:46:21.35 | Director Whelan | For sites in the downtown historic district or on sites or properties designated as historic resources, there are additional criteria or standards applied to proposed signage in addition to considerations for complying with the historic district guidelines. Furthermore, all signs in the district or designated as a as a, or on sites designated as a historic resource, requires the issuance of a certificate of appropriateness. from the Historic Preservation Commission. |
| 01:46:53.51 | Director Whelan | In the historic district, the list of signs at the very left hand side of the screen here are subject to additional regulations and standards above the standard regulations for signage. Additionally, the code strongly discourages a host of signs in the downtown historic district or on sites designated as historic resources, including electronic and reader board signs, flashing signs, signs that contain the glossy finish, or, and roof signs as well. Lastly, there are provisions for types of signage that do not require a sign permit or review, for example, an alarm sign or interior signs located within 15 feet of business frontage. |
| 01:47:41.08 | Director Whelan | Okay, for my flowchart friends here, this slide shows a flowchart explaining the sign permit process in Sausalito. So we'll start, I'll use my, Now, see, we'll start up here with, if there's a site in the historic district The applicant will need to first apply for certificate of appropriateness from the Historic Preservation Commission. And once that is approved, then the applicant will apply for a signed permit. the site is outside the historic district, they can move straight to applying for a sign permit Sign permits for text replacement only of existing approved signs where a business has changed ownership or use in any district may go through an administrative sign permit process. where a written determination is provided by staff. within 10 days of submittal. And this decision is appealable to the planning commission within 10 days. Additionally, signs that have no internal illumination or and do not exceed six square feet in the aggregate of permanent business signage for sites located in the central commercial, neighborhood commercial, commercial residential, or commercial waterfront zoning districts. or do not exceed 20 square feet in the aggregate of permanent signs for the business in the industrial shopping center and waterfront districts. go through an administrative sign permit process. All other signage requires by the code of planning commission hearing and approval. |
| 01:49:21.77 | Director Whelan | This slide shows the submittal requirements for signage pursuant to the municipal code. included in the requirements for signage are providing a site plan exterior elevations photographs of the existing site and detailed specifications for the proposal. and change. |
| 01:49:41.26 | Director Whelan | We also wanted to point out that the code is clear that a sign that has been approved and not is is not allowed to be changed or replaced without a new sign from it first being obtained The code also discusses non-conforming signs, which are signs legally established that no longer conform with the code. The code makes it clear that the eventual elimination of existing nonconforming signs is as important as the prohibition of new signs that would violate our regulations. and allows for a legally non-conforming sign to continue to be used but it does not allow any structural changes to extend It's life. does not allow the sign to be expanded, moved or relocated. and it does not allow the sign to be reestablished after a business has been discontinued for 90 days or reestablished after damage or destruction of over 50% of the sign. |
| 01:50:41.34 | Director Whelan | And that concludes my brief staff presentation. No action is required of the commission this evening, but we're happy and available for a discussion. |
| 01:50:50.84 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. director whalen thank you for getting this on the agenda and preparing your report there i know that this has been a discussion um in various uh different hearings uh with this commission and something that i i know we'd like to always look for ways to improve and streamline here in the city. I'm gonna go ahead and ask the commissioners questions or comments for you. Let me start with Commissioner Luxenberg. |
| 01:51:26.31 | Jeffery Luxenberg | That was great. I think that was very helpful, Lily. If we could, if you could post that somewhere or send it to us, that would be helpful. I think that the sign ordinance does its job. A socioleta does a good job. It used to run both a sign program and review signs when I was planning director. I had some concerns the other day with regard to the project that came in. The only thing I would strongly encourage, because I think that requiring approval of every sign is important and needed for the city is that if we get a development project that comes in with tenants and that instead of approving a signed program and then having the tenants come back later and submit for signs, if they know what the tenants are and they know what the signage is, if we could do it as part of the package, then it saves a step. That was the only point I was making. I have no issue with the sign ordinance. I think it does an excellent job. So. |
| 01:52:29.76 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Commissioner Lutzenberg. Commissioner Sons. |
| 01:52:35.95 | Nastassya Saad | No, I would just. I would love to see that presentation posted somewhere. I love your flow chart, Director Whalen. It's very helpful to see. I don't think I have any feedback. I was thinking like, COMMISSIONER LUXEMBURG JUST ABOUT THE SIGN PROGRAM. downtown that Michael Rex had just proposed. I don't know. I'm not familiar enough to know if there was anything like that, previously for any other buildings but I liked that concept a lot. And if there is turnover just for that to be, I believe in the administrative checklist. TO KEEP THINGS MOVING. But. I think our I think our code is pretty explicit and pretty clear as well. So I don't have any feedback. |
| 01:53:24.10 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Commissioner Saad. Vice Chair Graff. |
| 01:53:28.06 | Richard Graef | Mm-hmm. Um, Thank you, Chair Feller. Yeah, I agree that I think our signed ordinance is pretty good. And over the years, to had an opportunity to evaluate, uh, quite a few signs and signage programs that have been submitted And Some of them took some discussion, generally, The code is pretty good to work with. So I'm glad we have it. and I haven't seen any huge problems with it, so. I just would like to that we should respect it and continue to use it. I don't have any comments about how to improve it particularly. |
| 01:54:28.12 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Vice Chair Graff. Um, And I liked the comments that everyone has said, I actually don't have a problem with the signage ordinance either. I do, however, think there could be some ideas for the process and I think that Commissioner Luxenberg and Commissioner Saad were we're hitting upon this. So I think our ordinances are OK. But the process, I think that they're there could be some ways and tools to look at this. One is the one that Commissioner Luxenberg which I think is an excellent one. I also think that perhaps to help streamline. is the process of achieving signage or, ministerial or other approval of signage that we work to develop certain and then the templates are pre-approved. fonts and sizes and or whatever it might be. I think that that would help an applicant either be able to make the decision that they would like to use sort of a predetermined template of some kind. or they can do something custom and of course we know that there are you know, logos and brands and things of that kind that they might want to work with. But in the case where we might have a larger sort of mixed use development that developer might want more standardized signage for each of their tenants. I don't know. but I think that when it comes to other neighborhoods within Sausalito, particularly in the commercial and retail, I think that we should have both options as part of the process. I love flow charts. As a recovered engineer, I love them. However, I actually think, you know, if you really look at first blush at that flow chart, Director Whelan, I think it's not as fast tracked or streamlined as it could be. And I just think that there are opportunities there to constantly evolve and improve how we go about this. I wouldn't necessarily change the ordinance. I would change the process. |
| 01:56:52.47 | Director Whelan | I'm going to ask you a follow-up if I may. one topic that the commission might consider is if that those triggers are at the appropriate places right now for administrative and planning commission review and |
| 01:57:07.39 | Andrew Junius | Thank you. |
| 01:57:08.57 | Director Whelan | we don't get a lot of administrative sign permits that staff can approve because the threshold is so low for administrative sign permits. So that might be one, lower hanging fruit. area if the commission wanted to consider discussing if there are other Um... signs that could be put in that category of administrative or modifying the square footages, just throwing that out there as something, a topic to talk about. |
| 01:57:42.71 | Kristina Feller | I mean, see that's a perfect kind of topic to bring up. And again, I think it's, more about the process than it is the actual ordinance. And if we have to look at that threshold and or use the idea of templates as or pre-approved Um, signage of some kind to help keep that process of approving or ministerial review more streamlined and, and, and out of the planning commission queue. whereby we've already sort of had a voice on it. I think that's really where we should be focusing our attention. So I would be very open to looking at that. I'd have to remind myself what that threshold is. So I can't really speak to it right now, but I would be very open to looking at that. What's everyone else's thought? |
| 01:58:44.86 | Jeffery Luxenberg | If I could, Chair Feller, a comment I made the other day when we had that presentation from the business community. I think, Lily, if you have, I mean, I know you're slammed with lots of things, but if a staff person could take a project that was approved in the commercial areas. from beginning to end. They submitted it on such and such a day, and then they had to do this. They had to submit a signed permit. They had to submit an application for the zoning and then you mapped it out like your flowcharts of all of the things they had to do and then sat back and looked at it and said, how can we make this process that took three years shorter? and you'd say well they had the you know the sign permit happened after the fact it happened twice the the they went through three meetings to the planning commission because they didn't submit all the stuff they should have submitted in the first place you know these are the things that came out and these are the reasons for the continuance if somebody could do that just in one case study you might discover uh you know the you lower the threshold for the sign you and i'm sure there are other things in there. You tell them one case study, you might discover, you know, you lower the threshold for the sign. I'm sure there are other things in there. You tell them in the beginning, as much as you want to submit this today, if you don't submit this, this will get continued. And there might be two or three low-hanging fruit that can make a big difference and make a project that took three years get down to a year or something. I don't know. But I don't know. Is that concept? I mean, that's a little bit amorphous, but does that concept make any sense? |
| 02:00:24.52 | Director Whelan | Yeah, some of the projects in South Slater are just so unique. And I think it probably would be more beneficial to... to kind of brainstorm with folks who've been processing the permits here. and what are the purposes that come to mind that were the most challenging for staff and for the applicant. and then try to exactly what you're saying, Commissioner Luxenberg, try to figure out what were the choke points for those projects if that's a, a code issue or a process issue or an applicant issue or a staff issue and if there's a path forward to unkink it for other projects you know, it is just what it was for that particular project because of a variety of reasons. But yeah, that's definitely on |
| 02:01:06.52 | Carolyn Riddell | Thank you. |
| 02:01:06.54 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 02:01:08.52 | Director Whelan | my list of things to do to improve the department and streamline permits. Yes. |
| 02:01:17.04 | Kristina Feller | Oh, |
| 02:01:17.26 | Director Whelan | Thank you. |
| 02:01:17.27 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Okay. Any other thoughts or comments? Um, about process or about ordinance. I think we all, at least I heard, ordinance we weren't didn't have a huge problem with Yes, Vice Chair Graham. |
| 02:01:37.51 | Richard Graef | a couple of things. Um, I think it would be difficult to try to establish kind of formats and things that people could choose from. Um, signage can sometimes be a really pretty creative process. I think we don't want to discourage people from doing things that are fun and unique and interesting. And in the interest of conformity. I'm not a real fan of of that idea, although I I think it's totally appropriate in an environment like we just did last at our last meeting there, where there is a formula for the names of the tenants on an awning. Now I think that is a good thing. Good. example of |
| 02:02:33.11 | Andrew Junius | Yeah. |
| 02:02:34.80 | Richard Graef | of that kind of a format thing. terms of offering those to an applicant Uh, I'm not quite so sure about that. Um, And I think that's a great thing. would be careful about trying to make it too easy to get I'm going to go ahead and get Um, because oftentimes there are There are interesting solutions to signage that people might proposed that would not get passed first, you know, the first look. and that really might B. a good contribution to the neighborhood or to the building or something. Um, I think sometimes it's good to get it out there in front of the plan commission. |
| 02:03:34.69 | Kristina Feller | I have a question to you of, Vice Chair Graf about that and maybe What are your thoughts then about precedence? if for instance Um, a property owner or tenant can point to two other examples of precedence where it has been approved Do you think that that should carry some weight in terms of kicking it to ministerial versus planning commission. I don't want loosey goosey kinds of approvals of signage necessarily. I just am trying to, I think it's very arduous right now. I like our ordinance. I'm not suggesting we change the ordinance, but I do think we need to be a little bit more clear and consistent about it. held. expedite the signage. And so where there is precedence of, um, the same or similar signage you know, does, would that carry any weight? And again, we don't have to solve this, There's no action necessarily required, but I'm just trying to drum up some ideas to think of more clever, innovative ways to streamline this for applicants, for the commission and for staff. |
| 02:05:00.23 | Richard Graef | well um personally i i would think that the uh the appropriateness of a proposal should govern and, not necessarily precedent. there may be a precedent for a certain kind of scale or something like that out there, But, and and some proposal might Um... at first glance be consistent with that. But on the other hand, It might be just totally wrong. And it has to be looked at from a design standpoint and from a context. So I'm not sure I don't think, so far I haven't encountered I think it's a good thing. I would... I would just like to encourage good design and creative thinking in the process. So whatever that means, as far as, BAFCOs. It's pretty hard to nail some of those things down. But maybe we need to talk about it some more. |
| 02:06:18.59 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Any other thoughts or comments? Thank you. Commissioner Saad? Anything else? |
| 02:06:27.32 | Nastassya Saad | I don't think so. I tend to... I agree with Vice Chair Graf in terms of I think the intent is really good. I think it makes a lot of sense in an existing in a building that in a single building, I suppose. So like the, building downtown, you have the same awnings. If you have turnover, it's pre-approved. Um, Otherwise, I think opening it up to other than that, I just think a lot of legwork will be done and probably be ignored. potentially because people are gonna wanna have their own design. Yeah the intention is good I just don't know if it would practically work as a broad broad spectrum. |
| 02:07:12.15 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Yeah. Yep, good. Commissioner Luxenberg. |
| 02:07:17.44 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yeah, I tend to agree with Commissioner Graff on the concept When a sign comes to the commission, it's open, it's public, it's transparent, and issues that might not have been thought of by an over-the-counter review. where, you know, only one person is looking at it and they don't do it. There might be a way to get those on our agenda in a separate part of our agenda and not have to go through a whole, you know, 20 page staff report just to get a simple sign. I mean, there might be a way that, you know, we do signs in a simple part and there's a way to do it faster and more efficient. But I agree with Commissioner Graff. I can see where, something that a staff person thought was fine because they were viewing it quickly. Whereas when it gets submitted here and the public see it and everybody sees it, you know, it's sort of a different look at it. |
| 02:08:19.77 | Kristina Feller | No. |
| 02:08:20.68 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Just a thought. |
| 02:08:22.30 | Kristina Feller | Okay. all excellent comments and perspective. Director Whelan did Thank you. |
| 02:08:31.03 | Director Whelan | Thank you. |
| 02:08:31.08 | Kristina Feller | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 02:08:31.21 | Director Whelan | back on that did resonate with me there a couple of a couple of things here one is that I was just thinking maybe we could modify our staff report template for signage and have a standard template that staff is able to just drop the information in. in terms of the stats on the square footage and everything. The findings, of course, are unique for each sign. And so there's time and care that takes into crafting those those draft findings for the Commission but that's one idea and maybe that and would be able to expedite our staff report writing if we had you know, a basic, um, template specific for signage that we could use. And then another thought that I had, is potentially talking about activating the zoning administrator for certain types of signs. So we have a zoning administrator function I serve as the zoning administrator. It's a public hearing process. So we send out, just like planning commission meetings, we send out public notices, we hold public hearings, people have their three minutes to talk, and then I make a decision, and my decision is appealable to the planning commission. So maybe there are potentially a category of some signs that might be able to fit into that that process. And there still would be the public hearing process and engagement of the community. but not require waiting for a planning commission hearing to become available for a sign to move forward. Just a thought, another thought there. |
| 02:10:11.69 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Does that get submitted to the Planning Commission? not for action, but just for information beautified. in that kind of process. Would the Planning Commission get a copy of this is going to be at a hearing of the zoning administrator? |
| 02:10:27.67 | Director Whelan | We haven't traditionally done that in the past. with the planning commission we haven't given Yeah, we haven't had that type of engagement with the Commission. |
| 02:10:38.05 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I'm not suggesting that the ones that you're doing now that are not signed do that. I was just suggesting that if you were to go down that road, that maybe those get submitted for information to the Planning Commission, so that they're just aware of them. And if a sign looks like it's going to be an issue, then you know then somebody could say something and probably 99 percent of them for not. No one would say anything. If you're informing the public of the commission, could be informed just regard to signs. I'm not saying any of the other items that go to the zoning administration. |
| 02:11:16.05 | Kristina Feller | So here's what I'd like to maybe suggest. taking all of this into account. Um, I'd like to suggest. I like the idea of some sort of standardized template. I think that will help. the applicant that will help this commission that will help the staff. I have no doubt in my mind. So Director Whalen, if we can, have a look at that. Maybe develop that and look at that. In addition to that, I think the your hearing that you're talking about maybe is also tied to this threshold question that you raised earlier. And I think that that threshold question or what that threshold is needs to come back to this commission so we can weigh in on that. and feel comfortable with what it currently is and what it might be proposed to be. if that's changed, as long as, as if there's an appeal, it comes back to the commission, if that's something that we even want to entertain doing. but if we could Have a look. if we can agendize at a future meeting coming back. with some options for resolution to process regarding signage as i've just described then i think that will help this commission weigh in better and give some clearer direction and work to streamline this for everybody involved. Um, let me ask my commissioners if they have, if they agree with that or if they have anything to add or edit from that idea. |
| 02:13:07.02 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I can weigh in to make it efficient for Lily because I know she's got lots of things on her plate. The sign, creating a standard sign template, I would just do that with the next sign application, just write it as if it was going to be the template for the future rather than drafting a blank one and having us look at it. I would just do the next one as a standard with regard to the idea of I'm assuming to change the the thresholds, you'd have to do a zoning amendment of some sort. So on all of these things, I would encourage you just to start just drafting zoning amendment language kind of thing for consideration. So that rather than then having to have a whole long discussion about it and then draft the zoning amendment language, just draft the paragraph that would change as a recommended zoning change so that you don't have to do it twice. It's just a problem. |
| 02:14:16.04 | Kristina Feller | I think that's what, yeah, I think that's what, what we're saying. Are you good with that, Director Whelan? |
| 02:14:24.29 | Director Whelan | Understood. |
| 02:14:25.44 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 02:14:26.28 | Director Whelan | I understand. |
| 02:14:26.62 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:14:26.69 | Director Whelan | Thank you. |
| 02:14:28.15 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Any other comments from commissioners at this time? Okay. I'm gonna go ahead and open this up to public comments So if you'd like to comment on this item on the agenda, if you could raise your hand in the Zoom application or press star nine, if you are on a cell phone. So I'm looking for raised hands. I do not see any at this time. So I'm gonna go ahead and close public comment. And I think that, that closes up this item 4D and Dr. Whalen, I think we're ready for item five communications. |
| 02:15:14.36 | Director Whelan | Great, I'll let you know that for your upcoming meeting on June 2nd, in addition to the items that we discussed this evening to be on that agenda, You'll have a study session regarding the Clipper Yacht Harbor stock, uh, realignment. project. And so that'll be on your June 2nd meeting. in addition to condominium conversion permit or property at 197. Gilbert. I believe. Meet up for chat. |
| 02:15:48.01 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 02:15:49.24 | Carolyn Riddell | Right. |
| 02:15:51.79 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Um, Let's see, let me just ask Commissioner Saad then, do you have anything to report on the progress and the great work you've been doing as our designated omnibusman. as assigned by our Mayor Hoffman. |
| 02:16:10.25 | Nastassya Saad | I've had a few conversations. So I have taken some of Director Whalen's very limited time and she's given me some guidance. I did have a, lunch meeting with Michael Rex the other day to get some of his feedback. He provided me with some that he had taken and presented at some point, I think two years ago. THE FAMILY. I THINK TO COMMISSION AND TO THE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT team and I also had the chance to speak with Kevin McGowan at Department of Public Works for a little insight there. basically an interview stages, note gathering. There are some common themes right now. in terms of feedback. I do hope to speak to a few more individuals coming up in the next few weeks. And I think the intention will just be to collate those notes I'll probably get together. Hopefully we can have a discussion too, but I'll go back to Director Whelan previously maybe put together a loose presentation or at least some guidance and ideas from the feedback that I've received, but some good initial groundwork I do think, COMMISSIONER LUXENBURG HAD It was a really, it was a great idea. It was something I was, thinking about in my head in terms of going through one project and seeing where the roadblocks could could be. that might also be a really great step to take in terms of General. general. you know, King says, Director Whelan had said that in hiccups and people where people get stuck. So hopefully try to do that as well. But hopefully, yeah. I'm targeting end of month. to have something to show everyone. |
| 02:18:00.83 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Thank you for doing that and the extra efforts. for that. Uh, It's an important initiative, and I think it's going to help synthesize and clarify where there are opportunities for improvement or a look at the process. So thank you. |
| 02:18:19.58 | Director Whelan | Thank you. |
| 02:18:20.35 | Kristina Feller | for taking that on. |
| 02:18:23.02 | Director Whelan | If I could interrupt real quickly, I'm so sorry. I was incorrect on the address for the condo conversion for the next meeting. It's 195-197-HIVISTA. |
| 02:18:33.50 | Kristina Feller | High Vista, okay. |
| 02:18:35.37 | Director Whelan | And then I also failed to update the commission on some activities regarding the housing element update as well. Chair Feller, if you wanted to provide that update or you would like me to. |
| 02:18:47.25 | Kristina Feller | If you and Commissioner Luxenberg can provide any update, just sort of where we are in the process and what we see in the future, that would be great. |
| 02:18:55.50 | Director Whelan | Sure, so I think I updated the commission that we, that staff circulated an RFP for the housing element update back in early March and we did not receive any responses. We reached back out to several firms and I engaged in some conversations with them. |
| 02:19:10.41 | Carolyn Riddell | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 02:19:10.56 | Andrew Junius | Thank you. |
| 02:19:13.09 | Director Whelan | and found a few firms that were actually interested in proposing and working with the city on the housing element update. And we reopened up the, we re-released the RFP and to a limited number of firms, we received two proposals. and the Proposal Review Committee had an opportunity to interview both of the consultant teams on Monday of this week. and we're putting together a recommendation the city council, that we expect to go on the June 8th council meeting. We're hoping that the council if, um, they choose will approve the contract at that meeting and we can get the housing consultant started on the work. |
| 02:19:59.85 | Kristina Feller | Great. Commissioner Luxembourg, do you have anything to add to that report since you sit on this committee? |
| 02:20:06.99 | Jeffery Luxenberg | No, I thought that was an excellent summary and hopefully that recommendation got approved by the council so we can move ahead. I think the council is also working on, you also submitted, you posted online the application for people to sit on the committee as well, I believe. Thank you. |
| 02:20:24.96 | Director Whelan | Thank you. |
| 02:20:25.06 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yes, thank you. |
| 02:20:25.57 | Director Whelan | Yeah. |
| 02:20:26.33 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 02:20:26.34 | Director Whelan | Yes, thank you, Commissioner Luxembourg Chair Feller for all your hard work on this committee, working with, the vice mayor and council member Susan Cleveland Knowles on this effort, everyone put in a ton of effort reviewing proposals and then also crafting the application that went out last Friday to the community. Public announcement, we are looking for folks to serve on the Housing Element Advisory Committee. that will be approximately a two year process. We should expect monthly meetings and lots of engagement as well if you're interested. and learning more about that process and serving on the committee. please visit the City Sausalito website and we have a link for the housing element update and a link to the application online. |
| 02:21:17.78 | Jeffery Luxenberg | You started to get responses to that or not yet. |
| 02:21:22.40 | Director Whelan | You know, I did look this week and then I think they're being sent to not me. So I don't know. And I didn't have an opportunity to check back in with the folks that they're getting sent to. So I, I am curious though. |
| 02:21:33.91 | Andrew Junius | No. |
| 02:21:37.08 | Kristina Feller | Great, well, thank you both. And certainly looking forward to this committee expanding and taking shape with the participation of the community and those applications coming in so thank you for also raising that and using this as an opportunity to remind everybody to apply. That would be good. Um, So I had a couple of things that I wanted to report on and and actually also ask for an agenda item for one of the future hopefully June meetings. Um, We received the planning commission. It looks like everyone was copied here, an email regarding the parklets on Caledonia. And we did hear earlier from the public, from Carolyn Revell, about these parklets as well. And I wanted just to report out that I have been working or communicating with, I should say not working, but communicating with, the Economic Development Advisory Committee as well as their city council liaisons about about issues with Parclips and just discussing ideas about that. Um, or hopefully future action. For purposes of this hearing, I want to make it really clear to the public that the planning commission was not part of reviewing, approving, green lighting, anything like that, parklets. The parklets that we have here in Sausalito at this time We're part of the economic recovery plan for the city of Sausalito. and the city council took action to empower the city attorney to fast track any and all approvals of applications for parklets and outdoor dining facilities, so this commission was not included. at that time for reasons that should be obvious. Um, but we are looking for any involvement that we can provide and direction from the city council. They will be meeting on that. Lily, I believe you mentioned on June 8th. That is agendized on the city council agenda. And, um, I know that they have expressed interest in what the future of those parklets will be. And we are also very curious to find that out as well. So at this time, we appreciate the letters we appreciate everybody using their voice to bring it to this commission's attention. And we are certainly waiting for any direction that we might receive from city council. should they change their current direction they have to empower the city manager. for approving those parklets. So that's where we are right now. Um, I do, however, think that it would be an interesting exercise to benchmark what other jurisdictions are doing. And I would like to ask Vice Chair Graff, being the resident architect here, if you and I can work at looking at that together that would not violate the brown accents it would just be the two of us and it would be good to Have a better understanding of what our neighbors are doing Okay, thank you. Um, And then director Whalen, anything else regarding parklets? Is this still on the city council agenda for June 8? |
| 02:25:39.75 | Director Whelan | yes yeah we will be bringing an item on june 8th to the council related to the covid 19 temporary permits that's the city issued um starting in june of last year for actor activities for businesses in the city as everyone's aware there are a number of businesses that did apply for temporary permits for parklets. And I know a number of them would like to apply for permanent parklets in those locations and are aware. that the city's current process is a design review permit and an encouragement agreement. And so we'll be, We'll be having that discussion with the council on the 8th. |
| 02:26:17.73 | Mary Wagner | Madam Chair, if I may, just a quick point of clarification at the beginning and not to belabor this since it's not on your agenda, At the beginning of your comments, you mentioned that the council authorized the city attorney to issue those permits and that I did work with staff, but it was actually, you know, an executive order of the city manager. all of your staff, your community development department staff, public safety staff and your, um, Department of Public Works were all involved in those decisions. |
| 02:26:47.31 | Kristina Feller | Thank you for the clarification. And I believe I was in error, you're right. You were not the one as city attorney authorize to do that I think it was the city city manager and of course all the resources under the city manager so |
| 02:26:59.55 | Carolyn Riddell | Thank you. |
| 02:27:03.06 | Kristina Feller | Um, Please accept my correction and forgive me for misspeaking. on that item. but at this time we're hoping we are We are poised and ready for any direction the city council might give, which may or may not include the planning commission moving forward. I know that we cannot get into discussion about this or debate tonight, but I did want to make a couple comments about that because I know that this commission has been asked about this or I've heard rumblings in the in the community about what's what's happening. And and so so that is a point of clarification. And Director Whalen, thank you for giving us the update on the city council agenda for June 8th. And I do hope that we can agendize something regarding parklets and this type of outdoor and potentially not just dining, but something that, you know, might be with us longer than COVID. It might be a new, new normal of some kind. And, And this commission is poised and ready to act as appropriate and as needed. So I just want to make that comment. The only other thing I have to report is if you guys recall, we had, presentation that was given to us earlier this year, I think it was, if I'm not mistaken, in March, from Tom Riley, the chair of the Economic Development Advisory Committee specific to permitting and at that time. this commission stressed very heavily to EDAC that their efforts would be extremely valuable in enforcing in the businesses and retail, the conditional use permit and the uses in those areas and so on and so forth. And, Tom Riley did reach out to me to report back that They heard us and that he is forming a subcommittee within EDAC which of course I was delighted to hear And I assured him that this commission would work with them in support of those efforts and that I will likely be making appointing a liaison to that task force in the future. again is similar to a previous conversation this evening i'd like to wait until June. which is just around the corner when we have our full five member commission back. with our new member and And so at that time we can start those discussions and make those appointments as necessary. So those are the two things that I wanted to make sure that I mentioned this evening. Does anybody else have any comment or anything to report out? not requiring debate or deliberation. Okay. Director Whelan. Just came back on to say goodnight. I was going to say, I'm sorry. Motion to adjourn. Thank you. Anybody? So moved. All right. Thank you, Commissioner Stodd. No problem. Thank you everybody for your time this evening and all your hard work and efforts. It's appreciated. And thank you to the public. Please keep. your communications to us. open often we want to hear from you and please make sure you copy staff thanks so much have a good night |
| 02:30:52.07 | Nastassya Saad | THE FAMILY. Thank you. |
| 02:30:53.13 | Kristina Feller | Good night, everyone. |
| 02:30:53.25 | Nastassya Saad | And I... Thank you. |
| 02:30:54.14 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:30:54.53 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I don't know. |
| 02:31:08.01 | Andrew Junius | Bye. |
| 02:31:24.05 | Andrew Junius | Bye. |