| Time | Speaker | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:04.13 | Maria | And let the puzzle in. |
| 00:00:12.62 | Maria | a fellow of the public at SIN |
| 00:00:15.20 | Kristina Feller | Terrific. Thank you so much, Maria. And good evening everybody welcome to the regular planning commission meeting for Wednesday March 2nd. Director Moore, good evening. If you could walk us through some directions for Zoom this evening and also call the roll. |
| 00:00:32.21 | Jim Moore | I'd be glad to. Good evening, Chair Feller and Commissioners. This meeting is being held pursuant to government code section 54953E and in light of the declared state of emergency. The regular meeting of the Planning Commission on this March 2nd, 2022, will be conducted telephonically through Zoom and broadcast live on the city's website. Chair Feller, would you like me to call the roll? |
| 00:00:55.55 | Kristina Feller | Yes, please. |
| 00:00:57.44 | Jim Moore | Surefeller. |
| 00:00:58.86 | Kristina Feller | here. |
| 00:00:59.90 | Jim Moore | I'm not going to be a good one. juniors. President. mission or graph. |
| 00:01:04.00 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 00:01:04.04 | Nastassya Saad | Sure. |
| 00:01:04.86 | Jim Moore | Commissioner Luxembourg. Thank you. COMMISSIONER SAYAD? |
| 00:01:08.53 | Nastassya Saad | here. |
| 00:01:08.80 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 00:01:09.61 | Jim Moore | Chair Feller, all your commissioners are present. You have more than a quorum. |
| 00:01:14.20 | Kristina Feller | Right. Terrific. Thank you so much. The next item on our agenda this evening is item two, which is the approval of the agenda. |
| 00:01:22.19 | Jim Moore | And Chair Feller, may I interrupt you for just a moment? |
| 00:01:22.38 | Kristina Feller | Bye. |
| 00:01:25.06 | Jim Moore | Thank you. |
| 00:01:25.08 | Kristina Feller | Certainly. |
| 00:01:25.22 | Jim Moore | I'd like to recommend that you move the communications down to after item six and just before adjournment. I'm not sure why it showed up there in the agenda, unless that's what you normally do, but I believe it's usually at the end. Actually, these days it's at the beginning. Sorry, Chair Feller, I apologize. Oh, then by all means, leave it if that's your choice. Sorry, thank you. |
| 00:01:40.61 | Andrew Junius | beginning. Sorry. |
| 00:01:46.04 | Kristina Feller | No, Vice Chair Genius is correct. |
| 00:01:48.66 | Unknown | Bye. |
| 00:01:48.67 | Jim Moore | I'm not sure. |
| 00:01:48.86 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:01:49.31 | Kristina Feller | Okay. So item number two is approval of the agenda. Do I have any comments on the agenda or a motion to approve? |
| 00:01:57.68 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Don't move. |
| 00:01:58.76 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Terrific. Director Moore, could you please take the roll call? |
| 00:02:03.96 | Jim Moore | Yes, Chair Feller? |
| 00:02:05.51 | Kristina Feller | Yes. |
| 00:02:06.29 | Jim Moore | Vice Chair Junius? Commissioner Graff. |
| 00:02:09.18 | Kristina Feller | Yeah. |
| 00:02:09.82 | Jim Moore | Commissioner Luxenberg. Yeah. Commissioner Saad. Yeah. passes unanimously. |
| 00:02:15.06 | Kristina Feller | Excellent. So let's move on into number three, which is communications. And let's first start with staff, if we could. Director Moore. Absolutely. |
| 00:02:23.45 | Jim Moore | Absolutely. So I know that some of you will be reporting out on the HEAC meeting that was last Monday, but I would like to just chime in from staff's perspective for a moment as a follow-up to that meeting. You will be receiving meeting protocol. The HEAC will be receiving meeting protocols from Mary Wagner, the town attorney. We also, they also decided to, do site visits in groups of three to four in the coming couple of weeks. And we will be providing a direction to the HEAC members for those site visits and tours. We've also printed out large format maps to a system in that, and we've posted the entire Thank you. Um, information at the library. Um, The SB9 draft ordinance will be coming to you folks on March 16th, and I'll be trying to prepare some lot analysis and samples of what could happen in Sausalito. And also, I will be getting you the most updated table of potential SB9 lots and a map. Um, A little good news for our department. We are going to be having Heidi Sobel come back over to community development department. She's going to be on loan for us a little bit while she carries out her final duties with the city manager, but we're gonna be landing her full-time, which is gonna really help us right the canoe. Cause as you know, we're down two out of four people and the two we have including, and myself as a third, have very little institutional knowledge. So it's vital. It's going to really help us right the canoe. I've also arranged for a replacement of our code enforcement officer. with our consulting firm CSG engineering and that new person will be onboarded next Tuesday comes with a lot of experience and so I'm looking forward to that and we've also decided to start the recruitment for a full-time building official Our code, our inspector, building inspector has been without a supervisor for years, and it would be good to stop paying for consulting services, which are very expensive, and bring someone on board. And I'm hoping we can find a building official who actually can do code enforcement and some small plan check also to solidify operations. I'm aware that you all were hoping to get information back from EDAC. It's on my radar about the business and permit retail strategy. I just haven't had the bandwidth to get around to that, but I'm aware of it. The long loss joint meeting for you all and the city council is now scheduled for March 31st. That's a Thursday. So please put it in your calendar. And if you recall, I sent you one-way communications this week. with a list, oh, I beg your pardon. Regarding your March 16th meeting, I sent you one way communications about the priorities for funding to get it on your radar and to be thinking about what you think the priorities for funding should be. I also sent you one way communication about this spur event happening tomorrow. 1230 to 130 about SB9, which would be a good thing. booked at that time. Otherwise I'd love to be watching it also. And with that, I think that's it. Thank you. |
| 00:05:39.84 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Director Moore. And I commend you for all the work you've been doing in community development. And it's quite impressive and a heavy lift. So thank you. |
| 00:05:50.22 | Jim Moore | Thank you. |
| 00:05:50.68 | Kristina Feller | So much for that. Thank you. |
| 00:05:51.98 | Jim Moore | you |
| 00:05:52.03 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 00:05:52.26 | Jim Moore | Thank you. |
| 00:05:52.28 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 00:05:52.35 | Jim Moore | Thank you. |
| 00:05:52.40 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 00:05:53.23 | Kristina Feller | Um, a city attorney Wagner. |
| 00:05:55.84 | Mary Wagner | Thank you, Chair Fowler, members of the commission. Just wanted to add one quick item for you, an update on the tree fee, if you will. We are bringing that ordinance back to the City Council for second reading on consent on March 8th. And thanks to Vice Chair Junius and Sausalito Beautiful for working with us on the establishment of the fee itself. That item is going to trail a little bit to give us a little more time to work with both Vice Chair Junius and the Sausalito Beautiful members who are helping. But because the ordinance won't go into effect until 30 days after second reading, that gives us a little bit more time to work out the details on that. So we anticipate that bringing that to the city council at their second meeting, which I believe is March 22nd, if that's that Tuesday. So thank you, Chair Feller. That's it from me. |
| 00:06:44.46 | Kristina Feller | Again, thank you so much for pushing this forward. And of course, a great thanks to Vice Chair Junius for leading that effort on behalf of the commission. So thank you both for all your hard work. And of course, Sausalito Beautiful, who has been a great partner in all this. Thank you. Let's go ahead and move into commissioner's communications. Vice Chair Graff, do you have anything to report out? |
| 00:07:11.47 | Richard Graef | I have not been active in any Uh... projects recently so really nothing to report thank you |
| 00:07:23.71 | Kristina Feller | Thank you very much. Commissioner Luxenberg. |
| 00:07:28.40 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you, Chair Feller. The Parklet Working Group has been meeting and actually met on site at a number of parklets so we could test out the requirements that we're developing to submit to the city council. And that was very fruitful. And we should be able to have a draft to send to the city council very shortly. |
| 00:07:52.56 | Kristina Feller | Excellent work. Thank you for doing that. And thank you for beta testing with the team. Thank you. Commissioner Saad. |
| 00:08:01.48 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you, Chair Feller. Community Development Director Moore stole a lot of my thunder, but it's great to hear about HIAC over and over. So we did have that meeting on Monday. The next meeting is coming up on March 28th. There is a lot of work to do between now and then, including the site visit. So as he mentioned, they're published and while some supplemental information will come out, I would encourage all members of the public to look at that past agenda or go to the library now that data is available. there and to take a look at what is proposed of those sites. as well and start to give input because the next meeting really is going to be for the HEAC members and members of the community to start to uh, whittle them down and give feedback and there's not a lot of time so anyone who can participate to give feedback from now will really help us when we get into that meeting and have a successful outcome also the community survey has been completed essentially given our feedback at the last meeting so that should be going out sometime soon as well so for everyone to keep an eye it's going to be available on SurveyMonkey there'll be some paper copies distributed as well TBD on that but as a heads up that valuable input coming out of the community as well will help us figure out HOW WE'RE MOVING FORWARD. unless I've missed something, Chair Feller, from that meeting, I think, I think that's the HIAC update for now. |
| 00:09:41.02 | Kristina Feller | Great, thank you. And thank you for all your hard work on the Housing Element Advisory Committee. It's quite a lot of work. The only thing I will add, if you don't mind, is just again to implore the public to please Have a look at the virtual binder online. There is a hard copy in the library if that's easier for you. These surveys will be coming out. The next meeting is in a month or at the end of this month on March 28th. but we really do want to hear from you between now and then. We, um, want your public comments, please send them in. Director Moore is the point of contact for all of that and that does get distributed properly But he is the point person for HIAC and for the city to receive those comments. And we really, really do want to hear from you. This will not be as fruitful an effort without everyone's participation. So I would just implore you to please take the time. And certainly if you have questions to ask those as well. um this this is our community so it affects all of us so we should all participate in in the the amount of time that we can, so thank you. And thank you, Commissioner Saad. Vice Chair Junius. |
| 00:10:54.21 | Andrew Junius | Thank you, Chair of Beller and Commissioners. Um, Just to follow up on City Attorney Wagner's update on the trees. Yeah, I think that's gonna actually work out pretty well. Um, I think the folks at South Salisbury are beautiful. It really got a good handle on it. And it's nice to be able to help with a little bit of organization and language. So it's not gonna be too much of a heavy lift after we get the ordinance through. And I think the resolution He's looking pretty good. with respect to the objective standards status THE FAMILY. Our consultant Bob Brown has produced a, this is the first time we've actually put you know, words to paper to start to try to, stored out some of this stuff. I have yet to take a look at that. but I will be diving into that pretty quickly and hopefully, with you Chair Fellow and working with Bob to move that forward and get ready for the next couple of steps. I don't believe we have another meeting quite scheduled quite yet. but again we're trying to with the last report we had and with the folks at OptiCoast on board, and ready to kick in very soon. I think at this point, there'll be more to be talking about next meeting. So that's my report. |
| 00:12:00.37 | Kristina Feller | Excellent. Thank you. And thank you for all your work on that. there's a lot of detail in it and there are a lot of steps to be had there so thank you for for um being such a leader in all of that. I just, I mean, most of, most everything has been reported out on, but for the benefit of the public here, I wanted to make a note that Southern Marin Fire District is offering free fire inspections. We are moving into fire season. And if you're interested in that, they'll come to your property and walk around and sort of assess and give you some feedback. for a safer property. And so you can go on to their website, Southern Wind Fire, and I think it's sfmd.org. and you can actually schedule an appointment for them to come and so i would encourage everybody to take advantage of the expertise and those free assessments while you can, because fire season is here and we know full well that we are below our average in terms of rainfall. So, um, Please do take advantage of that. The only other note I have is really to staff in terms of the report out of subcommittees. The ombudsman position role was completed and information issued to the city already. And then we rescinded the liaison to the EDAC enforcement because they weren't actually meeting or moving forward to that. So we no longer have that assigned from the planning commission to work with them on enforcement. So I just wanna make note of that as we move forward. So unless anybody else has any comments or anything else to report out on, I think we can go ahead and open this up to public comment. And director Moore, could you assist in providing some direction to the community here, how to raise their hand in zoom or on a cell phone? |
| 00:14:06.19 | Kristina Feller | you I think you're on mute, Director Moore. |
| 00:14:13.40 | Jim Moore | Yeah, I'm actually, I'm at a loss for that language right now. Please forgive me, hang on a second. |
| 00:14:21.45 | Kristina Feller | I can go ahead and sort of pinch hit here because, and I think most people I see here is generally familiar with how to do this, but in the Zoom application, You can raise your hand at the bottom. under reactions, you can raise your hand if you'd like to make public comment. Or if you're calling in from a cell phone, you can hit star nine. So at this time, I'm looking for raised hands. This is public comment for our communications and report out. |
| 00:14:55.37 | Kristina Feller | I am not seeing any hands in the public. So I'm going to go ahead and close public comment on communications. And I'm going to move on to item number four, which is public comment on items not on this agenda this evening. So anything having to do with the two business items, we won't be taking public comment on, but any other item we would like to hear from everybody. So if you could raise your hand, I'm looking for raised hands. |
| 00:15:27.26 | Kristina Feller | Each speaker gets three minutes in public comment. I am not seeing any takers this evening either. So I'm gonna go ahead and close public comment. And let's move on to the approval of the Planning Commission minutes, which is item number five. Since there are two items here, I'm gonna take these in two separate approvals. So 5A is the approval of the Joint Planning Commission and Historic Preservation Commission, which was a special meeting that we had. on February 9th. Just by raise of hands from the commissioner, are there any comments on these notes this evening? So just 5A. No, okay, seeing none, I will entertain a motion to approve those meeting minutes. |
| 00:16:12.72 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 00:16:12.76 | Jim Moore | move. |
| 00:16:14.14 | Kristina Feller | TO BE ABLE Thank you. Director Moore, could you please take the roll call? |
| 00:16:18.05 | Jim Moore | Yes, Chair Feller? |
| 00:16:19.69 | Kristina Feller | Yes. |
| 00:16:20.72 | Jim Moore | Vice Chair Junius. Commissioner Graff? |
| 00:16:24.28 | Kristina Feller | . |
| 00:16:24.35 | Jim Moore | Thank you. |
| 00:16:24.47 | Kristina Feller | Bye. |
| 00:16:24.49 | Jim Moore | Thank you. Commissioner Luxembourg? Yeah. Commissioner Saad? |
| 00:16:28.21 | Kristina Feller | Yeah. |
| 00:16:28.94 | Jim Moore | Yes, motion passes unanimously. Thank you. |
| 00:16:31.62 | Kristina Feller | Thank you so much. 5B is the approval of the regular planning commission meeting minutes for February 9th, excuse me, February 16th. Just by a show of hands, are there any comments? on those notes if not i will um entertain a motion to approve |
| 00:16:50.93 | Richard Graef | Don't move. |
| 00:16:52.26 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 00:16:53.44 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 00:16:53.49 | Kristina Feller | Like, |
| 00:16:53.71 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 00:16:54.34 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Director Moore, could you please take the roll? |
| 00:16:56.95 | Jim Moore | Yes, Chair Feller? |
| 00:16:58.34 | Kristina Feller | Yes. |
| 00:16:59.04 | Jim Moore | Vice Chair Junius? Commissioner Graff. Yeah. Commissioner Luxenberg, Yeah. Commissioner Saib. |
| 00:17:05.46 | Kristina Feller | Yes. |
| 00:17:06.03 | Jim Moore | Motion passes unanimously. |
| 00:17:07.70 | Kristina Feller | Excellent thank you let's move on to item number six which are our public hearing items and this evening we have two items Director Moore? |
| 00:17:16.04 | Jim Moore | Yes, the first item, the first public hearing item is a request for a tree removal permit at 38 Alexander Avenue. Assistant planner Adam East will be providing the presentation. Adam? |
| 00:17:26.84 | Kristina Feller | Oh. Pardon me, Adam and Director Moore, allow me to interject if you don't mind. First, we wanna take, if there are any declarations for ex parte community. |
| 00:17:36.05 | Jim Moore | Ah, thank you. Yes. |
| 00:17:37.37 | Kristina Feller | Yes. Commissioners, I just want to ask that now. Um, uh, commissioner graph. |
| 00:17:45.28 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 00:17:45.30 | Jeffery Luxenberg | No communication. |
| 00:17:46.55 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Commissioner Luxenberg. |
| 00:17:48.94 | Jeffery Luxenberg | No expert in communication. |
| 00:17:51.42 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Commissioner Saad. none. |
| 00:17:54.60 | Andrew Junius | Thank you. |
| 00:17:54.97 | Kristina Feller | Vice Chair Juniors. |
| 00:17:56.61 | Andrew Junius | On the tree matter, no communications, but I did have some communications about a month ago on the following matter. with the applicant. |
| 00:18:05.92 | Kristina Feller | and I believe that you disclosed that before as well. I have none to disclose. So with that, forgive the interruption there. Our planner, Adam East, I will hand this over to you. |
| 00:18:19.99 | Adam East | Thank you Chair, fellow commissioners. I am going to share my screen really quickly. So just give me one moment. |
| 00:18:26.36 | Unknown | you |
| 00:18:34.17 | Adam East | And please let me know if you are able to see the screen. Yes. |
| 00:18:37.70 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 00:18:37.71 | Adam East | Thank you. Great. So I did put together a brief presentation also included in your packet should be a staff report, the arborist report, and the application with some supplemental information regarding the findings. But the request before you tonight at 38 Alexander is for a tree removal permit. The applicant is the owner of the property, Mr. Steven Tran. And I did include some site photos just below to show you where on site the tree is located. The tree is located towards the rear of the property and leans out towards the bay, which you'll see in a subsequent photo as well. The tree in discussion is, or the request is for a removal of one cook pine on the property. The arborist report includes some information regarding the tree. It is 16 inches in diameter at breast height. And because of that, it does qualify as a heritage tree per the city's code requirements. And it is a protected tree. As I mentioned, the tree is located towards the rear of the home on the steep downhill slope, which faces the bay. The arborist report notes that the trunk's partially corrected lean Thank you. and gaps in the patio walkway grouting indicate the tree's root system is in the process of failing. And he concludes to state in the report that there is a high failure risk and the tree should be removed as soon as possible to prevent additional property damage and possible personal injury or death. The applicant also indicated in the request that the removal of the tree will improve neighboring views for the adjacent property as well. um so in evaluating the criteria for a granting of removal of a protected tree we do believe that the applicant meets the requisite findings for removal due to the high risk failure of the tree so we believe it is a good practice of management of tree removal it will improve the views for the adjacent properties The applicant, instead of proposing a replacement tree, is proposing to install some low growing shrubs in place of the tree. and that is a result of the concern over the root system which has been pulling on the retaining wall and creating some cracks in the walkway there so they are proposing low growing shrubs instead of a replacement tree So we do recommend approval for the request. for the removal of the cook pine tree at 38 Alexander subject to the conditions included in the draft resolution and the staff report. And the applicant is in attendance as well. If there should be any questions, |
| 00:21:24.35 | Kristina Feller | Excellent. Thank you so much, Adam. I appreciate, um, your presentation and the work you've done behind the scenes with the applicant to get this done. So thank you very much. |
| 00:21:34.88 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:21:35.58 | Kristina Feller | Let's go ahead and stop sharing screen for just a moment. Um, and let me, uh, ask the commissioners if they have any questions for staff at this time. Commissioner Graff. |
| 00:21:48.74 | Richard Graef | No questions. |
| 00:21:50.39 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Um, Commissioner Saad. No questions at this time. |
| 00:21:54.95 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 00:21:55.83 | Kristina Feller | I should have left some curve. Oh, you're on mute. |
| 00:22:02.64 | Jeffery Luxenberg | No questions, Chair Fellow. Thank you, Adam, for your presentation. |
| 00:22:07.28 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Vice Chair Junius. |
| 00:22:09.75 | Andrew Junius | No questions at this time. Thank you. |
| 00:22:12.13 | Kristina Feller | I just had a quick question for you, Adam. In the arborist report, the focus was on the view for the neighbor And the report actually said that the arborist was not worried about this tree falling over. And as you know, Cook Pines characteristically lean, they lean towards the equator. That is a standard characteristic of them. So I'm curious, there seems to be a disconnect between what the recommendation and what is being said in the report versus what the arborist is saying. |
| 00:22:41.40 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:22:48.63 | Adam East | I did take a second look at that as well, chair. And I believe the comment was that the neighbor was concerned about the tree possibly falling on their property. And the arborist report was stating that there was no chance of the tree falling on the adjacent property. |
| 00:22:48.88 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 00:23:02.90 | Adam East | However, he does state that the tree itself is a high risk of failure, which would lead to that root system pulling the retaining wall and damage to the property of the property owner. So I think they were making the distinction that while the tree, if it were to fall, would not fall on the adjacent property and cause damage to the neighboring property, It would cause damage to The property at 38 Alexander. |
| 00:23:26.04 | Kristina Feller | But the report did say that the tree was in bad condition. So what exactly are they worried about? Are they just worried about the roots under a flagstone patio? like above the tree. |
| 00:23:39.25 | Adam East | My understanding is that the arborist stated that the tree was a high risk of failure due to his observations that indicate root system failure. As observed by the pulling on the retaining wall and causing the cracks in the grout. of the walkway. So, Beyond that, I don't have any additional information, so I would have to defer to the applicant, hopefully the arborist, if they're in attendance tonight. I apologize for... not having that complete information. |
| 00:24:06.67 | Kristina Feller | not having a Nope, you've done just fine. I appreciate it very much and appreciate you scrutinizing the report as well. Okay, if nobody has any questions for staff, Adam, if you could help identify the applicant in the audience here. And if you could ask the applicant |
| 00:24:25.40 | Unknown | Yes. |
| 00:24:28.31 | Kristina Feller | and their arborists to present. We'd like to welcome them here this evening. |
| 00:24:35.68 | Adam East | Yes, I believe Mr. Steven Tran is in attendance and is unmuting now. |
| 00:24:39.80 | Kristina Feller | Excellent, excellent. Welcome Mr. Tran, welcome this evening. The format for these hearings is you have 15 minutes for you and your arborist or whoever else from your team to... |
| 00:24:52.62 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 00:24:52.64 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:24:53.55 | Kristina Feller | provide a presentation. And at that time, we might ask some questions after that. If you'd like to reserve any time at the end for any rebuttal, that's also, you're welcome to do so, just let us know. So if I could ask Maria to put our timer clock up. on the screen so Mr. Tran can see that. And if Mr. Tran, if you need to share your screen or if you'd like to put your camera on, Thank you. |
| 00:25:19.17 | Diane DeGray | Thank you. |
| 00:25:19.19 | Kristina Feller | Kim's |
| 00:25:20.16 | Diane DeGray | Where's the camera? And The camera is not working at this time. OK. For some reason. We don't see ourselves along with you at the top. I'm Diane DeGray and I'm representative with Stephen. He's sitting right here as well. |
| 00:25:32.59 | Unknown | as well. Hi, this is Steven. I'm going to have my godmother represent me, please. |
| 00:25:40.57 | Kristina Feller | Okay, very well, welcome to you both. Hopefully you can see the clock and the floor is yours. |
| 00:25:47.27 | Diane DeGray | Thank you. I don't see the clock, but yeah, so whatever you, Adam has said is absolutely correct. We are in the process of trying to move forward with this removal. It all started a long time ago with the, our next door neighbor wanting it to be removed because of the visual you know, that was something that was blocking her view. So we've done a lot of testing and try, you know, figuring out what we wanted to do. And we've come to the conclusion that it's a good idea to remove the tree, given our arborist's assessment. |
| 00:26:14.54 | Unknown | assessment. Thank you. |
| 00:26:15.72 | Diane DeGray | for the retaining wall and like that. He was very clear on letting us know that there would be no way that that tree would ever damage the property next to us. So it was pretty reassuring. but yes, we, we have agreed with what Yarbrough says. And, um, We just want to move forward and have the tree removed. |
| 00:26:33.47 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:26:34.01 | Diane DeGray | Amen. for damage control. Did you hear what I said? |
| 00:26:39.07 | Kristina Feller | We heard what you said, yes. |
| 00:26:41.15 | Diane DeGray | OKAY. |
| 00:26:42.70 | Kristina Feller | Is that the end of your presentation? Well, I don't know what else to say other |
| 00:26:45.20 | Diane DeGray | Well, I don't know what else to say other than the arborist is not here. He couldn't, he wouldn't, he couldn't make it this evening. So he stands by his, we spoke with them. this afternoon and he said that his assessment stands And that that's what he, he completely recommends. And, um, he supports his decision for us that we should remove the tree. And so that's it. Okay. |
| 00:27:07.71 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Okay. |
| 00:27:09.53 | Diane DeGray | Thank you. |
| 00:27:10.70 | Kristina Feller | Maria, if I can ask you to stop the clock And should you need any more time once we hear public comment, all that, I'll note that there's 13 minutes and 36 seconds left. Should you wanna use that |
| 00:27:24.72 | Unknown | Mm-hmm. |
| 00:27:24.95 | Kristina Feller | Mm-hmm. but don't go away because the commissioners here may have questions for you. Right. |
| 00:27:30.41 | Unknown | Right, we're here. |
| 00:27:31.08 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 00:27:31.57 | Kristina Feller | Oh, excellent. Okay. So Commissioner Graff, do you have any questions for the applicants? |
| 00:27:37.16 | Richard Graef | Um, not at this time, thank you. |
| 00:27:42.35 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Okay. Commissioner Saad? |
| 00:27:48.36 | Nastassya Saad | Um... No, I think not. Well, actually, I think I have one. If I read correctly, I believe this was done back in November. Um, So, if there's an urgency for damage to the retaining wall. I just wanted to understand It's been quite a few months between now and then Has there been any other inspection? Has anything else changed or is this the only arborist Thank you. |
| 00:28:22.63 | Nastassya Saad | I'm |
| 00:28:23.07 | Diane DeGray | Yeah, to answer your question, there has been only one arborist, and he's actually the one that most people use in the Bay Area. He's quite the authority on this particular subject. |
| 00:28:23.11 | Nastassya Saad | REPORT. |
| 00:28:32.99 | Diane DeGray | And no, the retaining wall has not moved since that time. And it's even gone through the terrible windstorm that we had recently and it stood its ground it's not if it does fall the arbor city will absolutely fall into the bay and not come toward us or the neighbors. So it's very flexible. |
| 00:28:49.45 | Unknown | Totally. |
| 00:28:50.66 | Diane DeGray | Yeah, it will uproot the retaining wall if it does do that. but it seems pretty solid right now. Okay. um, |
| 00:28:59.03 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. Chair Feller, that's all I had. |
| 00:29:01.58 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Commissioner Saad. Commissioner Luxenberg. |
| 00:29:05.18 | Jeffery Luxenberg | No questions of the applicant. Thank you, Chair. |
| 00:29:07.99 | Kristina Feller | Okay, Vice Chair Junius. |
| 00:29:10.09 | Andrew Junius | Yeah, thank you Chair Feller. Just a couple of questions. one photograph and once we get back to the staff I'm going to talk a little bit about that but The one photograph has the red arrows in the arborist report pointing toward the cracks Is your, can you give us an idea? How long those cracks have been there? Are they advancing rapidly? Or are they just something that showed up or have they been there for years? |
| 00:29:33.14 | Diane DeGray | Well, they've actually been there for quite some time. And as we've noticed, they haven't gotten any bigger. And they've moved out in the past six months. They've gotten bigger. They've gotten bigger. They have moved. They have moved. |
| 00:29:43.80 | Unknown | They've gotten bigger. |
| 00:29:47.58 | Diane DeGray | So it's like the arboretum said, we really can't tell how long it's gonna take. He said within two years, obviously it will fail. That's what he said. So his recommendation was to move it as soon as possible because we don't know Like that big rain really caused a lot of damage down there to everything. And that tree is not helping the retaining wall. |
| 00:30:09.54 | Diane DeGray | Thank you. Does that answer your question? that's it. |
| 00:30:14.33 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 00:30:14.58 | Diane DeGray | Thank you. |
| 00:30:14.62 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Thank you, Vice Chair Junius. I just have a couple questions for you. And you heard my questions of staff before. But this is also a fairly significant slope that this tree is on. And of course, you know, with the findings of our landslide task force, we're very interested in the stability of hills. I mean, we live in a very hilly area, and of course, that is something we should be concerned about. So I'm wondering if this arborist, I didn't see in the report and perhaps this came up in a conversation or even perhaps I may have missed it. So if you could clarify it for me, if the arborist is recommending the stump removal. |
| 00:30:58.15 | Diane DeGray | Yes, the stump is to be removed. Yes, it is. The, in the retainer and the wall itself is only |
| 00:30:58.19 | Kristina Feller | Yes. Yes. |
| 00:31:04.92 | Diane DeGray | concerned by the tree. The rest of the wall is not, nothing's happening to it. There are other plants there, and they're all stable. They're all being there, but definitely he wants that root and the stump taken out as well. |
| 00:31:12.55 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 00:31:17.66 | Kristina Feller | And just to be clear, that retaining wall is above the tree and over to one side. |
| 00:31:23.35 | Diane DeGray | Yes, it's behind the tree, above it and behind it. So as you can see from that one picture where the tree actually comes out, goes out and then goes up again. So the root system goes underneath the retaining wall, and it's, you know, it's behind it. Yeah. |
| 00:31:37.62 | Kristina Feller | And the retaining- |
| 00:31:38.35 | Diane DeGray | above it. |
| 00:31:39.50 | Kristina Feller | Is it a wood retaining wall? |
| 00:31:41.62 | Diane DeGray | No, it's Stone. It's rock and it's also concrete. |
| 00:31:43.03 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. It's... |
| 00:31:45.94 | Diane DeGray | And above it is flagstone. |
| 00:31:49.02 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 00:31:50.10 | Diane DeGray | the flank stone flat deck there. above the tree, behind the tree. |
| 00:31:54.21 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 00:31:54.25 | Diane DeGray | Mm-hmm. |
| 00:31:55.66 | Kristina Feller | Okay. I appreciate that. |
| 00:31:58.94 | Diane DeGray | You're welcome. |
| 00:31:59.85 | Kristina Feller | Um, Commissioners, just by a show of hands to me, do you have any additional questions for the applicant at this time? All right, thank you so much. Don't go too far away because we still have a little more work to do here. but I think at this time we want to open this up for public comment. And so, yeah, Mr. Chan, if you don't mind muting, thank you for that. Um, so for the public, if you would like to comment on this item now would be the time. If you could raise your hand in the zoom application. or press star nine if you've called in from a cell phone. |
| 00:32:41.21 | Kristina Feller | So I'm just looking for raised hands. And while I'm doing that, if our planner, Adam East, if you can just confirm whether or not we've received any written comment on this item. |
| 00:32:54.96 | Adam East | Chair, I believe we received a comment that was just came in towards the end of today. And let me pull that up. Just give me one second, I apologize. |
| 00:33:04.72 | Kristina Feller | That's okay. |
| 00:33:21.15 | Unknown | Amen. |
| 00:33:32.54 | Adam East | Maria, if you are on the call, can you let me know if that was uploaded to the, Thank you. |
| 00:33:38.15 | Maria | I get uploaded to the agenda. |
| 00:33:41.27 | Adam East | Okay. |
| 00:33:42.16 | Maria | It's Mark and Karen. |
| 00:33:47.29 | Kristina Feller | Okay, so we received one item for public comment in one written comment, right? |
| 00:33:53.84 | Adam East | That's correct. |
| 00:33:55.19 | Kristina Feller | Okay. I don't believe I saw that in time for the hearing tonight. Could you quickly let us know what that says? |
| 00:34:05.26 | Adam East | I am looking for it right now. I don't see it on the agenda. Maria, you wouldn't happen to have the physical copy with you, would you? |
| 00:34:15.24 | Maria | Hold on, I am looking for it right now. |
| 00:34:19.39 | Kristina Feller | while you look for that. I'm going to go ahead and close public comment since there are no hands raised. and let's move the discussion up here to the virtual dais and any information we can get on that written comment would be very helpful. Um, Thank you. since I think you've probably received it past the deadline. |
| 00:34:48.80 | Kristina Feller | And we will wait to hear what that might say. |
| 00:35:02.52 | Kristina Feller | or if that's going to take a moment. Commissioner Saad, do you want to start us off in deliberations here? |
| 00:35:09.61 | Nastassya Saad | Sure. Thank you, Chair Feller. I think I understand potentially a little confusion around The way the arborist report is written, it did seem very view specific, but understanding the root failure and the cracks, I think, it does make sense to ultimately have this tree removed. It is a, it's a strange sight. Of course, I didn't visit it. couldn't access it and see it. one photo to go from is a little bit, It's minimal, so it can't get a full look at the scope, but The lean is, it's an odd tree, but as long as there's no potential hazard it sounds like it's not going to fall it's going to fall into the bay and not damage anyone's property i mean it's just It's a little bit of an odd one. But I think from understanding what's happening under the roots, you know, causing all of that damage, it probably does make sense. I don't know if we want to still discuss a replacement maybe not necessarily for that property since it is such a steep slope, but I think for their property, it makes sense to have some of the vegetation that they're intending to plant, but would be open to discussing a potential archery fund or something of that nature as well. |
| 00:36:41.56 | Kristina Feller | So commissioner Saad, are you in favor of removing the tree? I'm not clear. |
| 00:36:46.15 | Nastassya Saad | I'm sorry, yeah, I am in favor of removing the tree. I would, I'd be in favor of removing the tree. |
| 00:36:53.51 | Kristina Feller | question. Commissioner Luxembourg what are your thoughts. |
| 00:36:58.49 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you, Chair Feller. I was able to see the tree from the driveway. You can't really see the wall from the driveway. It is leaning. I can see from the photographs the damage. And I think I can support removal of the tree. And I think given the location, replanning things that are not going to grow to this height is probably the better option. So I think what they're suggesting is the appropriate way to go. given the location, replanning things that are not going to grow to this height is probably the better option. So I think what they're suggesting is the appropriate way to go. |
| 00:37:30.78 | Kristina Feller | Okay, thank you. Commissioner Graff. |
| 00:37:34.67 | Richard Graef | I concur with my fellow commissioners. It does look like it's a potential hazard and has already started to damage the, retaining wall and deck so I think I could support removing the tree Um, And I think some judicious plantings to replace it would be appropriate as has been proposed. So, yeah. |
| 00:38:04.94 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 00:38:05.41 | Richard Graef | Thank you very much. |
| 00:38:06.41 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Vice Chair Junius. |
| 00:38:09.97 | Andrew Junius | Thank you, Chair Feller. Yeah, I'm actually pretty troubled the skeleton report here. And again, a lot of confusing language is not, there was nothing that I can read in the arborist report that said anything about the health of the tree I think the applicant in some of the other materials that's you know, related that the tree is healthy. The tree has survived. that we've had very recently. Um, you know, I'm a little confused as to how, if there's evidence of real movement of the retention? and then we're going to be important but I don't think we necessarily have that. I'm not sure. you know, the conclusion about personal but possible injury or death. when the tree can't really fall on anybody else's property and would fall straight down a hill. I think that's, Interesting conclusion by the arborist. I don't know, I sure would have liked a lot more photographs, a little more, and you know, he again, he refuses to comment on the health of the tree. Frankly, from my perspective, it clearly is simply a view issue. So if we're gonna, removing a tree for a view let's just be honest about that And I would not support that. |
| 00:39:21.23 | Kristina Feller | Thank you very much. Um, I don't support this tree removal permit. Anyone who builds a stone retaining wall on a slope like this, right near the water like that, will know that your your you're going to get some settlement over time. That's just the nature of the materials that are chosen to use. As it relates to this particular tree species, there's absolutely nothing in the report that would indicate that it is an unhealthy tree. The leaning is the number one characteristic of this tree. That is what these trees are known to do. And so we should not expect it to do anything else but what it was intended to do in nature. So to me, the report really tells me that there's a view issue and, you know, there are a lot of solutions to handle that that will also preserve the tree, which is not just... important as a tree but it supports an entire ecosystem as well particularly on the bay with migrating uh animals um which is very important and something that this commission is is serious about uh so i don't i don't support removing this uh tree at all and uh particularly if you know the arbors is even thinking about removing the trunk on this kind of a slope and replacing it with a shrub, that just is nonsensical at the end of the day. So I would make a motion to... not to approve this, but I'm open to entertaining other motions from any other. |
| 00:41:04.64 | Andrew Junius | Thank you. |
| 00:41:04.66 | Richard Graef | I would. |
| 00:41:05.01 | Andrew Junius | Thank you. |
| 00:41:05.11 | Richard Graef | WCW. |
| 00:41:05.20 | Andrew Junius | I definitely second that motion. |
| 00:41:05.30 | Kristina Feller | So, |
| 00:41:05.55 | Richard Graef | I don't know. |
| 00:41:05.82 | Kristina Feller | Bye. |
| 00:41:05.86 | Richard Graef | Thank you. Excuse me. I have a question. Chair Fowler, And so maybe I'm not understanding this correctly, but the report says, This tree represents a high failure risk. and should be removed as soon as possible. of our event. additional damage. and so on. So that seemed to be, to me, to be the conclusion of the arborist and if we're, that armor is report then It does seem to be a risk of failure. And for that reason uh i i think it would be okay to remove it If that's really not the case, If the case is that the tree is healthy, And then it doesn't really uh, I'm not sure. uh, to the property. at least immediately. then then I don't see why it should be removed. It should be removed if it's clearly going to cause damage and and uh, to the property. So I just wanted to put that out there. Thank you. |
| 00:42:31.07 | Kristina Feller | Appreciate that. Thank you, Commissioner Graff. Um, commissioner side, any other. |
| 00:42:38.60 | Nastassya Saad | So I think I'm reading it the same way Commissioner Graff is reading it. So maybe as a point of discussion, that's because I don't disagree with either of you. It seems it's very view specific in the report, but then there's that one line. it's causing a little confusion on, you know, is it a safety issue or not? And putting that statement in there is really what my whole basis for approving it is. |
| 00:43:07.51 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 00:43:08.20 | Nastassya Saad | but But we've also seen quite a few, as the applicant said, it's a very, You know, this arborist is used all the time. And I have never seen such a bare bones report from this particular THEIR OWNERS. It's a little hard to make a determination. I would hate to not make the right determination if it is a hazard, but that one line in there is the only basis I would have for saying yes. |
| 00:43:42.96 | Kristina Feller | appreciate that perspective. I, I read part of the issues with failure on the, as the retaining wall, not the tree. |
| 00:43:50.30 | Nastassya Saad | Right. Yeah. |
| 00:43:51.43 | Kristina Feller | So again, what do you, you know, I think that the tree is a little bit more more valuable and it's probably easier to shore up a retaining wall than it is to replace a heritage tree that is healthy. and you know, |
| 00:44:11.72 | Adam East | you know, |
| 00:44:12.90 | Kristina Feller | I don't think the arborist is saying otherwise. We certainly know this arborist. We've seen many reports. I agree it's the more anemic one that I've seen. that doesn't have a lot of teeth to it and doesn't have a lot of facts included. Um... Commissioner Luxenberg, what are your thoughts? |
| 00:44:32.61 | Jeffery Luxenberg | It's a respected arborist, so I'm not, I don't want to, if it says judgment that it's unsafe, then. I mean, I don't know if... I don't know that we need a second arborist, but if it's his judgments unsaved, we relied on this arborist before. |
| 00:44:53.48 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:44:53.53 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I'm going based on what the oborists have said. So at the moment, |
| 00:44:53.59 | Unknown | Bye. |
| 00:44:57.97 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. That's where I'm going. |
| 00:45:01.30 | Kristina Feller | but that arborist said that that tree was healthy. |
| 00:45:05.06 | Jeffery Luxenberg | He also said it was an unsaid condition. |
| 00:45:05.11 | Kristina Feller | No. |
| 00:45:10.78 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yeah. |
| 00:45:10.97 | Andrew Junius | Thank you. |
| 00:45:11.20 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 00:45:11.56 | Kristina Feller | Okay. VICE CHAIR JUNIANS. |
| 00:45:13.92 | Andrew Junius | Yeah, I appreciate those perspectives and frankly, I, I, that's, My initial response was like, wow, this will be easy and then you look and i don't see any evidence to support that conclusion So, I'm troubled by that. And if you read closely the actual, analysis, he it's it's I can't even understand what he's trying to say when he talks about scope of work limitations. He talks about he investigated the tree doesn't tell us what happened it's and everybody's seeming to agree that the tree's healthy So, I, you know, I have frankly, I haven't been around very long on this commission, but I've seen and the government is from this gentleman before. and, you know, he's, this is a view issue and this is the easiest way for him to get the tree out. So I'd give, You know, if the commission is, I would be very interested in certainly more than willing to continue this matter, invite Mr. Julian to talk to us and explain why he thinks this tree is dangerous after it survived storms in the city attached to this the cliff. for the last 20 years. It just, you know, let's, you know, I think this is similar to the, frankly, there was a wonderful swimming pool case we had a long time ago where it really comes down to like, no, They really just want to put the pool in. that just be honest with us. . I'm troubled by the fact that he made those statements when there's absolutely no danger than anybody could get hurt if the tree fell. I mean, anything could happen, the tree falls, it falls into the bay. It doesn't fall into anybody's property. I just would like more information before we proceed |
| 00:46:53.82 | Kristina Feller | So we do have a motion on the floor. Actually I'm, certainly willing to entertain any other motions at this time or if we need to think about amending a motion we can do that as well Um, but I'm not comfortable approving this report and this issue tonight. Yes, Commissioner Graham. |
| 00:47:19.30 | Richard Graef | Yeah, thank you, Chair Feller. I'm just looking at this report again and just before that other statement It also says the tree's root system is in the process of failing. And if it got roots, it will destroy the wall and the walkway. Well, maybe it would. So But, I certainly hear the trepidation about accepting this report. uh, as it is. So I would be more comfortable in getting more information. I mean, I don't want to, approve a tree removal if it really It doesn't need to be removed. So I would opt for maybe a continuance so that we could get better information to go on. Um, But so it's unclear. So rather than error, Other side, off. losing a tree I'd rather wait till we get better information. Thank you. |
| 00:48:30.68 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Would you wanna make a motion? Is your motion to continue? I don't wanna leave the witness here, but I'd like to understand if there's... Maybe with us. |
| 00:48:41.63 | Richard Graef | Sure, I'll move that we... |
| 00:48:43.07 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:48:47.98 | Richard Graef | continue this application. to a hopefully a date certain and request that additional information be provided regarding the health of the tree and the associated risks with the Uh, if it should fail. So I just think we need more detail. |
| 00:49:14.59 | Kristina Feller | Okay. I would second that. Okay, are there any other motions on the floor at this time? |
| 00:49:22.01 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Can I amend that motion, Chair Feller, or ask for an amendment to that motion to allow us access to see this tree closer than the driveway because the only way to get to this is to walk through the property. So we need to see if the applicant can make that available because you cannot see this deck. You can't get very close to this tree without going through the property in some way. So I would like, if we're gonna continue it, I would like to be able to see the damage that's there and what the root structure is looking like. |
| 00:49:59.12 | Kristina Feller | Right? Commissioner Graff, would you be willing to make that amendment to your motion? |
| 00:50:04.12 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 00:50:04.14 | Nastassya Saad | Yeah. |
| 00:50:04.42 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 00:50:04.88 | Kristina Feller | Okay and Commissioner Saad, would you still be willing to second that with the amendment? |
| 00:50:09.69 | Nastassya Saad | Yes. |
| 00:50:10.80 | Kristina Feller | Okay. All right, since that is, there are two motions, that's the second motion, so we'll take a roll call on that first. Director Moore, could I ask you to do so? |
| 00:50:22.46 | Jim Moore | This is the continuous motion, right? |
| 00:50:23.90 | Kristina Feller | Yes. Yes. |
| 00:50:24.99 | Jim Moore | Yes. |
| 00:50:25.57 | Kristina Feller | And |
| 00:50:27.03 | Jim Moore | Point of order, are you continuing it to a date certain? |
| 00:50:31.32 | Kristina Feller | I think we have to ask the applicant If the applicant is available, if they would like to continue this to a date certain, So Mr. Tran, if you are there and are able to unmute, |
| 00:50:45.53 | Steven Tran | Yeah, we're here. |
| 00:50:47.37 | Kristina Feller | Um... We're gonna take a roll call vote on continuing this matter and requesting additional information as Commissioner Graff mentioned as well as the amended request to access the property and to the tree as requested. And we can continue this item to a date certain meaning we can look at the calendar and we can give you an actual date. |
| 00:50:59.87 | Steven Tran | Amen. Amen. Amen. |
| 00:51:04.87 | Steven Tran | Thank you. |
| 00:51:04.89 | Diane DeGray | Thank you. |
| 00:51:04.92 | Steven Tran | Thank you. |
| 00:51:05.00 | Diane DeGray | I'll get married. |
| 00:51:15.64 | Kristina Feller | of our next hearing and if that's okay with you and if you think you can get that done in time great If not, we can also continue it to a date uncertainly which means that you continue to work with our assistant planner Adam East and once that information is pulled together we'll get that on our agenda for a future meeting so it doesn't inadvertently pressure you into a date that that you're not ready for. Um, so it's up to you, which you would prefer. |
| 00:51:43.80 | Maria | Yeah. |
| 00:51:43.82 | Diane DeGray | Bye. Well, we'd like to continue this, obviously, and find out. that, most amiable date for everyone. And we're certainly willing to have someone come out and come through the property to check this out. That never happened. We were sort of hoping that would happen and no one ever called us to make an appointment. For an inspection, we would have absolutely been open to that. And we were told when we put in the application in two weeks after we did that, we were supposed to be notified that someone would be coming to make an assessment on their own apart from the arborist. Well, that never happened. We are definitely willing to have someone come and do that. So whenever the time is, And we're both for you and us, we certainly are open to that. and the timeframe. |
| 00:52:27.84 | Kristina Feller | Okay, I think probably- |
| 00:52:28.82 | Steven Tran | Can I jump in? |
| 00:52:30.74 | Diane DeGray | Thank you. |
| 00:52:30.76 | Kristina Feller | Yes, please. |
| 00:52:31.96 | Steven Tran | Okay, when I filed the permit, for the tree removal. for the tree. And somebody told me that they're supposed to be, have somebody out here to look at the tree. And in the report, The tree is not healthy. |
| 00:52:49.51 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:52:50.03 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 00:52:50.08 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:52:50.22 | Kristina Feller | Okay, so we're trying to find out if you would like to continue this item to a date certain. or a date uncertain uh well and |
| 00:53:01.53 | Diane DeGray | Well, I'm not sure a certain date would be correct. |
| 00:53:03.62 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 00:53:04.60 | Diane DeGray | A certain day and it. |
| 00:53:05.10 | Kristina Feller | And it. Okay, we wanted to be fair to you and allow you the time to coordinate with your arborist. But Director Moore, if we have a calendar with a couple of dates we might be able to to offer either later this month at the beginning of April |
| 00:53:22.38 | Diane DeGray | Thank you. |
| 00:53:22.82 | Jim Moore | Yes. |
| 00:53:23.12 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 00:53:23.16 | Diane DeGray | Thank you. |
| 00:53:23.18 | Kristina Feller | Yes, sir. |
| 00:53:23.43 | Diane DeGray | . Thank you. |
| 00:53:23.77 | Kristina Feller | Right. |
| 00:53:23.90 | Diane DeGray | Thank you. |
| 00:53:23.92 | Jim Moore | Yes. |
| 00:53:24.04 | Diane DeGray | Yes. As soon as possible, actually, if that would work for everyone. I'm concerned about the chain. Because we are concerned about the retaining wall. It has moved and we're just wanting to have someone come and assess that with us. That would be great. |
| 00:53:24.37 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 00:53:35.22 | Kristina Feller | Let us give you a couple dates for consideration. |
| 00:53:36.25 | Jim Moore | Thank you. |
| 00:53:37.86 | Diane DeGray | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:53:38.20 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 00:53:38.26 | Diane DeGray | Great. That'd be great. |
| 00:53:40.02 | Jim Moore | Yes, sure. Chair Feller, your next planning commission meeting is two weeks from tonight on March 16th. And the second one is on April 6th. |
| 00:53:47.53 | Diane DeGray | Thank you. |
| 00:53:47.54 | Kristina Feller | THE SECOND |
| 00:53:51.19 | Kristina Feller | Okay. And Assistant Planner East, when will you need information to you in order to prepare a revised report and get that posted in enough time for the hearings? |
| 00:54:02.73 | Adam East | Thank you. |
| 00:54:02.75 | Diane DeGray | or, |
| 00:54:09.68 | Diane DeGray | Are you asking me that question? |
| 00:54:11.05 | Kristina Feller | No, I'm asking assistant planner Adam East. |
| 00:54:11.25 | Adam East | I'm not sure. |
| 00:54:13.97 | Kristina Feller | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 00:54:14.12 | Adam East | We would like to send out the revised packets a week before that meeting date. which would mean that they would have to get the revised supplemental information from the arborist no later than early next week. |
| 00:54:29.19 | Jim Moore | Yeah, and I would recommend that's too tight to turn around. I would recommend at least going to the, to the six April six and the following one after that is April 20th. |
| 00:54:41.07 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Mr. Trent, if we can, make this motion to a date certain of April 6. Is that amenable to you? |
| 00:54:53.36 | Steven Tran | I'm not happy with the date. |
| 00:54:57.76 | Jim Moore | Chair Feller, I may interrupt just for clarification again. |
| 00:54:57.84 | Steven Tran | Well, |
| 00:55:01.91 | Jim Moore | If we were to move them for two weeks from now, we actually have to get all the applicants information in early next week, which gives them very little time to turn around and also gives a little time for you all to get out there. So I would recommend going to at least April 6, just so we can make sure. Everything is... articulated and that that gives the arborist more time to schedule their being at the meeting also. |
| 00:55:28.14 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, I would agree with you, Director Moore, and thank you for that clarification. Um, We can, Mr. Tran, we can make a motion here to a date certain of April 6th or a later date. And you let us know what you would like to do. |
| 00:55:45.33 | Diane DeGray | Well, speaking for him, April 6th is good. What we need to do is coordinate with Dr. Kent, the arborist, to find out what his schedule is. and to have him come out again. and to make an assessment. And will someone come from the city as well? to come out and do that. Assessment. on your time, on your side? Will somebody be coming and we can make an appointment there? |
| 00:56:06.04 | Jim Moore | Thank you. Well, yes. Adam, will you be up to going out there and taking a look? |
| 00:56:14.07 | Adam East | I certainly can, Jim. I am no arborist, so I wouldn't be giving any sort of professional assessment on health or conditions. |
| 00:56:18.83 | Jim Moore | Right. and all the health or conditions. I'll tell you what, why don't you and I go out there together and take a look at it too? |
| 00:56:23.82 | Kristina Feller | Perfect. I think that would be bait. So back to our motion, the logistics we can work on offline with this applicant. |
| 00:56:32.09 | Unknown | Amen. |
| 00:56:32.34 | Kristina Feller | but I believe that we will be making a motion here to continue |
| 00:56:32.36 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:56:38.67 | Kristina Feller | this item. to a date certain of April 6th, And again, what we have asked for is additional information and justification because currently a report says this is really an issue more related to a view and if that's what it is that's what it is or is is this tree um |
| 00:56:58.48 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:57:00.02 | Kristina Feller | completely unhealthy and exactly what is wrong with it and what's the issue. So that's what we want to get to. So that's the motion that we're looking at here. So I just wanna go back to Commissioner Graff. Are you okay with the amendment of the date certain? |
| 00:57:18.33 | Richard Graef | Yeah. |
| 00:57:18.62 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 00:57:18.63 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 00:57:18.65 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 00:57:19.21 | Kristina Feller | And Commissioner Saad, you're good to still second that? |
| 00:57:22.03 | Nastassya Saad | Yeah. |
| 00:57:22.19 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 00:57:22.30 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 00:57:22.65 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Director Moore, could you kind of- |
| 00:57:24.45 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Can I just make a point of information just for the public record here? You read it through. |
| 00:57:29.28 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 00:57:29.30 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. READ. |
| 00:57:31.73 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Any commissioner that's coming out, we need to send the applicant the site visit protocol. the staff can discuss this with them with the arborist, but if a commissioner comes out, we can't make any comments at that time. per the site visit protocol. |
| 00:57:50.22 | Kristina Feller | Yes. |
| 00:57:51.00 | Jeffery Luxenberg | So I just want to make that clear. So Adam, if you could send them a copy of the protocol, which basically says that any of the commissioners that come out can't discuss this, you folks can, but we can. So I just wanted to know that if I come out or any of us come out, that we're not answering any questions because we can't answer any questions. |
| 00:58:10.29 | Kristina Feller | Yeah. No, thank you for that clarification and that's certainly standard procedure. So Director Mora, can we please take a roll call on this item? |
| 00:58:19.32 | Jim Moore | Yes, Chair Feller. |
| 00:58:20.58 | Kristina Feller | Yes. |
| 00:58:21.36 | Jim Moore | Vice Chair Juniors. Yes. Commissioner Graff. |
| 00:58:24.51 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 00:58:24.55 | Jim Moore | Yeah. Commissioner Luxembourg. to us. Mr. Saad. |
| 00:58:28.26 | Kristina Feller | Yeah. |
| 00:58:28.83 | Jim Moore | Motion passes unanimously. |
| 00:58:30.62 | Kristina Feller | Excellent thank you very much let's go ahead and move on to 6b which is 240 Glen Director Moore, I'll hand that back to you and Assistant Planner Adam East. |
| 00:58:41.88 | Jim Moore | Yes. Adam, why don't you go into the... This is a design review permit for design review, heightened design review variance and encroachment agreement. for 240 Glenn Drive. |
| 00:58:55.80 | Adam East | Thank you. |
| 00:58:57.07 | Jim Moore | Thank you. |
| 00:58:57.08 | Adam East | Thank you, Jim. I'm going to share my screen really quickly. |
| 00:59:00.93 | Unknown | you |
| 00:59:05.69 | Adam East | And again, I've put together a brief presentation. You all are somewhat familiar with this request, which I'll get into in just a moment. But the request before you tonight is for a design review with heightened design review, an encroachment agreement and a variance for the construction of a 460 square foot detached enclosed garage, entry gate, a five foot fence, and a 62 square foot addition to the master suite of the property as well. Thank you. you The property is located at 240 Glenn Drive. And the applicant is Roger Hartley, who is the architect on the project for the owners, which are Richard Dotter and Susan Lemke. Again, the request is for the construction of the garage. I've included here in the image, a quick reference of the site plan, as well as a site location photo. It's a little bit difficult to make out the lot lines, but I thought it worth noting because I don't think it was brought up at the last meeting that 240 Glen Drive is The longest parcel as far as linear frontage along this immediate area. I believe the frontage is close to 120 linear feet that kind of angles along Glendrive. So there's quite a bit of frontage. And the garage will be located in this area here where my cursor is located. And I pulled these reference images. They're not supposed to be a substitute for the submitted plans. Those were included in your packet, but I did want to include these just for visual references. Well, On the background, this property This request came to the planning commission on January 12th. The commission moved at that time to continue this item to allow the applicant to revise the proposal to address the commissioner comments at that time. It was also put on the February 16 agenda, where at that time the item was continued again, this time due to the revised story polls StoryPoll certification not being installed at that time. So the new story poll were erected on February 18 and certified on February 20. And that is why it's coming before us tonight. So the applicant has made revisions to those plans in reference to the comments that were made at the January 12 meeting. I've included kind of a summary here of what those proposed changes include. The garage has been moved back two feet further from the edge of the road. One purpose of that is to reduce the impact of the enclosed building and that feeling of the bulk along the street. Also the roof, the orientation of the roof has been rotated 90 degrees. And that will allow for increased light to the street and also reduce the feeling of again, that bulk of the garage along the street. Um, it also removes the previous need to alter the nearby oak tree so the previous request would have required that one of the major limbs be removed on the oak tree but with the revision by moving the garage two feet and reorienting the roof that tree no longer needs to be altered the garage door now also includes glass panels at the top to increase the feeling of transparency into the garage And the proposed fence has been reduced from six feet to five feet and the design of the fence has been revised to include some open slats towards the top again to kind of increase the feeling of transparency along the street there. So we included a brief staff report for tonight's meeting but we also included the full staff report with all of the analysis from the previous meetings as well and And in conclusion, we are recommending approval for this request subject to those conditions for the construction of the 460 square foot garage with entry grade, the 62 square foot addition to the master suite. The variance, which we have gone over the analysis for relief from the 15 foot height limit requirements for that deep downhill slope we are recommending approval for the encroachment agreement to allow the entry gate and fence we did find out just recently that with the new survey that was done on the garage that the total garage is now totally out of the city's right-of-way so now the encroachment would just be for a garage and entry gate and that information just came in within the last week that with that new survey so the encroachment is actually less than what was previously proposed. So we are recommending approval with those proposed changes. And I do believe we have the architect as well as and tonight. And that is the conclusion of the staff report. |
| 01:03:13.77 | Scott Couture | is not going to be a good thing. |
| 01:03:43.32 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Adam. Thank you so much for all your hard work on this project and working so diligently with the applicant and their architect. I know this has been back and forth a couple times and appreciate everyone's patience on this. So thank you for that. Um, So this would be the time that commissioners have an opportunity to ask any questions of you for any clarification. Commissioner Luxenberg, do you have any questions for staff at this time? |
| 01:04:10.72 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Questions I have, I think are for the applicants, so I'll hold them off. Thank you, Chairfella. |
| 01:04:17.05 | Kristina Feller | Commissioner Graff. |
| 01:04:19.60 | Richard Graef | um, just to clarify the survey and the amount of encroachment that's being proposed. Um, I'm not sure I heard that correctly. And I'm, that some of it is not in the right-of-way anymore or only the apron is in the right-of-way could you clarify that please |
| 01:04:51.02 | Adam East | commissioner graff and i'll do my best and the applicant could probably correct me if i misspeak here okay with the moving of the garage two feet back from the previous proposal and with the most recent survey that was done as a result of getting the story polls recertified it came to light that the total garage is outside of the public right-of-way so no no portion of the proposed design would be inside of the right-of-way as far as the garage the entry gate and the fence still would be in the encroachment area but the garage itself would be totally outside of that okay thank you |
| 01:05:27.87 | Kristina Feller | Great, thank you for the question. Commissioner Saad. Do you have questions for Adam at this time? |
| 01:05:34.64 | Nastassya Saad | None for staff. Thank you, Chair Feller. |
| 01:05:36.68 | Kristina Feller | Great. Vice Chair Junius. |
| 01:05:38.96 | Andrew Junius | No questions. Thank you. |
| 01:05:40.34 | Kristina Feller | Okay, thank you. Adam, just can you walk me through one more time? the justification of the height variance. from the 15 feet to the 23. Just remind me again. Oh, you're on mute there. |
| 01:05:58.80 | Adam East | Thank you, Chair. Yes, so there is a 15 foot height limit for accessory structures. And you will notice that this property is on the downhill slope. So the properties on the other side of the street are on the uphill slope. So the applicant included in their request in response to the findings that if they were to strictly adhere to that 15 foot height limit requirement, due to the steep downhill slope and the way that we measured height in the city, That way I think it would limit the height of the garage to a total of seven feet at grade level where cars would enter. So that would cause a practical difficulty in complying with Um, that height requirement and also accommodating vehicles with that 15 foot height requirement. It also should be noted that the applicant is also making some attempt to mimic the design of the home on site with that cottage style. So they've chosen the lesser pitch of the roof. I believe the home has a mixture of 1212 pitch as well as a 612 pitch. So the applicant is going with the flatter pitch to kind of reduce the height of that building, but also mimic that architectural style. Those are some of the main findings in response to the variance. |
| 01:07:13.16 | Kristina Feller | Appreciate that. Thank you. I think it's important just to be clear on on what that is. And then the area below the garage is solely intended for storage, is that correct? |
| 01:07:24.41 | Adam East | That is my understanding. That's what's outlined on the floor plan, yes. |
| 01:07:28.65 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Great, thank you. Okay, commissioners, do you have any other questions at this time? Okay. Let's go ahead and invite the applicant up to present. I don't know, Ms. Lemke, if you are doing that or if your architect is here. Maybe Adam, you can assist. |
| 01:07:53.67 | Susan Lemke | I think it makes sense to have Roger speak first. |
| 01:07:56.37 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Okay. Do you see him here in the- Roger Hartley. Roger Hartley. Okay, great. Thank you. All right, we've got it. So- |
| 01:08:00.64 | Susan Lemke | Judge Hartley. |
| 01:08:04.96 | Kristina Feller | Welcome to both of you this evening. Let's get the timer up here on our, if you have a tiled screen, you'll be able to see that. up to 15 minutes. There we go. We'd like to welcome you this evening. You have 15 minutes to make a presentation. Certainly if any of us ask you questions, that doesn't count against your time. So invite you to take the floor over. Welcome this evening. Thank you. |
| 01:08:32.89 | Susan Lemke | Thank you. |
| 01:08:34.56 | Roger Hartley | Thank you. And thank you, Adam, for the very thorough presentation. You actually hit all the high points and I don't wanna be redundant, but I do wanna say that we took all of your recommendations to heart and really did our best to follow your recommendations and try to reduce the impact of this. If I could just share my screen. Thank you. |
| 01:08:56.97 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 01:08:57.09 | Roger Hartley | Thank you. |
| 01:08:57.86 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:08:58.46 | Roger Hartley | I'm sorry. |
| 01:09:04.99 | Roger Hartley | here showing a reduction of the impact on the street view. |
| 01:09:15.16 | Roger Hartley | The other thing I'd like to show though is a little more context of the neighborhoods. |
| 01:09:19.50 | Unknown | . |
| 01:09:21.47 | Adam East | Thank you. |
| 01:09:24.19 | Roger Hartley | This map shows more clearly the configuration of the lot and the adjoining properties. And as you said, Adam, it's very long and shallow. It's the longest property on the street. And it therefore has a lot of opportunity for other views along that area. And just to show you what some of the other properties are, I did a survey. These are a mix of one and two car garages, carports all along the road, reference to where they are on this property. They're both sides of the property as well as below. Pretty much the same. They pretty much occupy the front of the properties. In a little larger fashion, this is the property immediately next door to the left, 244. At the edge of this property is where our project is, just to the right of it. So this is all on the property in question. The other is filled up with a house. Same thing on the other side. |
| 01:10:27.88 | Adam East | Oh. |
| 01:10:33.78 | Roger Hartley | 230 Glenn is pretty much a blank streetscape. Now, whereas what we have here |
| 01:10:41.33 | Adam East | we have here. |
| 01:10:43.98 | Roger Hartley | is a pretty much open view even with the uh house where it is it's down low and the reduction of the fence height really took that into account we're allowing the uh view that was there to remain that fence will now no longer be any higher than the. roof of the garage This area in here is where the new entry will be. And immediately to the right will be the garage project. Um, the other issue on the fence, there wasn't a lot of discussion about it last time. Um, and maybe it deserves some, there's really a safety issue over whether there's a fence there or not. There's about a four or five foot drop off along this curb. The other side of the property, there's a guardrail. There is none on this. So it really needs some kind of a guard, and the fence will serve that purpose. And by changing both the height and the design, we're really opening it up so it doesn't feel like it's an oppressive wall. One other issue that did not come up last time was the view from the neighbor to the south. and we didn't have a chance to mention it, but we are. attentive to the privacy issue and planned some large plant between the neighbors property and this one to screen the lower portion of the new project as well as the window that's on that side. and another view of that. This first picture would be from the neighbor's perspective and other portions of the property. And once more from the neighbors at 2.30 glenn. This photo was taken from the bathroom Prior to when a fence was erected, which pretty much occupied by this corner of the bathroom window, you can see that fence in this, a photograph here, little glimpse of that window right in this corner, bedroom window being here. So we are doing our outposts to make sure that there aren't any privacy issues between the two. So that's about all I have. Unless you want to see this again, this was the graphic showing the height that would be allowed. you if we were stuck with 15 feet. It's right in here. So it's just not possible to put a roof on a garage. if that's the case. So I might turn over to Rick, who's has some more information on the view along this property. He's done some work to track what effect that might have on how it compares to the rest of the neighborhood. |
| 01:13:38.35 | Unknown | Amen. |
| 01:13:47.19 | Susan Lemke | Thank you. |
| 01:13:50.26 | Susan Lemke | Okay. We need to share our screen. So, no. |
| 01:13:56.98 | Kristina Feller | So I think Mr. Hartley, you might have to stop sharing |
| 01:13:57.31 | Susan Lemke | I'M SORRY. Right. |
| 01:14:01.70 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, there you go. So you should be able to turn your screen now. |
| 01:14:03.10 | Susan Lemke | So you should. It was good. Which one is it? |
| 01:14:06.39 | Richard Dotter | Thank you. |
| 01:14:06.78 | Susan Lemke | Thank you. |
| 01:14:06.80 | Richard Dotter | Um, |
| 01:14:10.85 | Richard Dotter | I think. I think it's keynote. |
| 01:14:18.15 | Kristina Feller | So you should see at your bottom tool bar on Zoom, there's a share screen, it's in green. |
| 01:14:25.80 | Susan Lemke | Right. |
| 01:14:28.67 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 01:14:28.68 | Susan Lemke | All right. Okay, let's see. We don't have it here. Hold on. It's right here. Here's the presentation. Can you see our presentation now? |
| 01:14:38.71 | Richard Dotter | presentation. |
| 01:14:41.41 | Susan Lemke | No. |
| 01:14:42.47 | Richard Dotter | Okay. There's the grief. That's great. |
| 01:14:49.71 | Richard Dotter | with. |
| 01:14:53.56 | Susan Lemke | Thank you. Okay, we'll do this. |
| 01:14:57.74 | Richard Dotter | How do I do that? |
| 01:14:57.98 | Susan Lemke | Can we share the screen? We're not seeing the. |
| 01:15:01.93 | Kristina Feller | If you're on Zoom and you go to the bottom toolbar, |
| 01:15:05.72 | Susan Lemke | Yep. |
| 01:15:06.55 | Kristina Feller | you should see security participants, then share screen. |
| 01:15:10.82 | Susan Lemke | Right, right, right, right. |
| 01:15:11.95 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 01:15:14.01 | Susan Lemke | you |
| 01:15:14.28 | Kristina Feller | Hmm? And then pick your screen and we should be able to see it once you do that. |
| 01:15:23.97 | Susan Lemke | Okay. |
| 01:15:26.87 | Jim Moore | You have to move the cursor down to the bottom of the screen to be able to see the share screen, I think. |
| 01:15:31.59 | Susan Lemke | Thank you. |
| 01:15:32.00 | Jim Moore | you. |
| 01:15:40.96 | Susan Lemke | Okay. I'm sorry. Thank you. |
| 01:15:46.80 | Susan Lemke | I'm not seeing it now. |
| 01:15:47.98 | Kristina Feller | no we don't see it adam do you have a copy of what the applicant is wanting to show |
| 01:15:54.90 | Roger Hartley | I have a copy, I can share it on my computer. |
| 01:15:57.19 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 01:15:57.55 | Roger Hartley | Yeah. |
| 01:15:57.94 | Kristina Feller | Okay, that'd be great. Thank you. Thank you. |
| 01:16:00.13 | Susan Lemke | talk through it. |
| 01:16:01.33 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 01:16:06.68 | Kristina Feller | Maria, thank you for stopping the clock as we get this rolling. |
| 01:16:09.80 | Roger Hartley | Yeah. |
| 01:16:10.79 | Kristina Feller | So, Mr. Hartley, are you going to share your screen? |
| 01:16:15.59 | Roger Hartley | Oh, hang on. |
| 01:16:19.13 | Kristina Feller | There we go. |
| 01:16:19.89 | Roger Hartley | There we go. |
| 01:16:20.36 | Steven Tran | Thank you. |
| 01:16:21.02 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Go ahead and start the clock again. |
| 01:16:25.68 | Steven Tran | Thank you. |
| 01:16:25.69 | Unknown | Please, can I get this? |
| 01:16:31.84 | Susan Lemke | So as Adam has gone through some of this, but basically, We thought a lot about your concerns during the last meeting and we wanted to just make it real clear, this garage as small as humanly possible because we heard that comment about there's too much mass so we we moved the garage two feet from the street and now it's within the easement as he mentioned we rotated the gabled roof we want to keep that gabled look because it's very much a part of our architecture for our little cottage house and as far as increasing the transparency the garage door is going to be partially glass but not totally for our little cottage house. And as far as increasing the transparency, the garage door is gonna be partially glass, but not totally glass because we really wanna preserve security. We want to minimize the impact to the public view. And we've got another slide that goes through that. Our minimum footprint here is really what we have now for this design. And we also lowered the height of the privacy fence. That is a security issue. getting out of their trucks and falling into our front yard. So we really need some kind of a guard rail there to prevent the public from tumbling down the hill but right now what we're offering is 93 feet of public water view and it doesn't affect any neighborhood view The other thing that I just want to say, let's go to the next slide, is that if any of you have walked by this property. you probably noticed there are no sidewalks on Glenn Drive. There are, it's not within the tourist area. It's not a high demand walking area. Nevertheless, We've preserved what is there for the view. And Rick put together a nice slide here. that sort of. shows this graphically. |
| 01:18:27.02 | Richard Dotter | Thank you. |
| 01:18:27.04 | Susan Lemke | So. |
| 01:18:27.04 | Kristina Feller | Do you see this? Yeah. |
| 01:18:29.34 | Susan Lemke | Thank you. |
| 01:18:29.39 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 01:18:30.08 | Richard Dotter | So there's a lot of numbers data on this. So let me try to walk you through it. So what we did was, Uh, look at six houses to the north and six houses to the south of us. So we're looking at like 13 different houses, including ours. And we measured the width of the lot. So at the one at 210 Glen, it's like, Yes. uh, let's see, 78 feet wide. And then we also measured how much view you had from that lot. So here for this example, it's 25 feet. And so, And then we did that for all the properties. And you can see that some of the properties have like no view down at 218 and 222. And then another property that's down in 218, In 262, Um... percentage, a large percentage of their property does have a view because the house sits down lower. lower blood low like our house does with respect to the street. And then there's another lot, two houses up from us that's wide like ours. but because they have a fence across virtually entire property, they only get five feet of view. So if we compare these kinds of numbers, you know, how many feet of view you have for most all our neighbors properties, And then you compare it to our property at 240 Glen. So as was mentioned, Our property has 125 feet along Glen Drive. And what we were originally proposing with the six foot fence is we would have 35 feet of view. And so most of that view is gonna come from the south side of the city. of our lot where And so what we're proposing to do is reduce it from five feet or from six feet to five feet. And that's gonna increase the view by 57 feet. And so now the view is like 90, 93 feet. So of the 125 feet, 93 feet is the view. And to kind of summarize that, we've got our 93 feet. And so, The total view So the 13 houses is 233 feet and some 240 Glen is providing 40% of the view FOR THESE for these houses and the view you get |
| 01:21:01.11 | Adam East | Yeah. |
| 01:21:03.44 | Richard Dotter | Um, is a panoramic view above the roofline of our house now. So just wanna emphasize this, that we are giving the majority of view and what the people would enjoy walking down Glen Broad. |
| 01:21:20.16 | Kristina Feller | Any questions? Is your presentation over? in the future. |
| 01:21:26.31 | Richard Dotter | Yes. One other one other comment about the the storage room the the area below the garage So it's currently being used, there is an area down there and it's currently being used as storage, a work room, and as a potting shed. And that's what we're gonna continue to use it. It's just gonna be an enlarged version of that. So it's not strictly, storage area it's just going to be used the way it's being used now storage workroom and a potting area. And since there's concerns about privacy looking out the window, We, would only be used in that room during the daytime and not very much. And so at night, when there would be potential of view into into a room that we wouldn't be there. That's all. |
| 01:22:13.72 | Susan Lemke | The next slide, Roger, if you just switch it to the next, we tried to look at that even more closely. And we took pictures from the room now and you can see, I mean, even the way THE VOTE. the potting shed is now, There isn't much to a view. I mean, there's really not a problem with looking from |
| 01:22:36.37 | Richard Dotter | So this would be the view from where the window is. On the right-hand side is on the street side, left-hand side. |
| 01:22:36.40 | Susan Lemke | So this was. |
| 01:22:44.42 | Richard Dotter | is away from the street and so you do get a view It's obscured by a pittasforum that's on the property line by the fence and also the plum tree. And then there is no view into the bathroom. And then the next slide, You could go to that. This is the current view that we have, and I think this has always been the view from the house. So on the right hand side is the view from our kitchen. standing in front of the sink and we looked directly into that window. and Um, And then And then on the left hand side, we get a view from our deck at the table where we have breakfast and lunch dinner, when, you know, weather permitting, And again, we look and we've always, you know, at a view directly into both the bathroom window And here. |
| 01:23:34.98 | Susan Lemke | Nothing's really changing, in other words. |
| 01:23:37.09 | Richard Dotter | So I don't believe we're reducing the privacy by adding the window down at this level. |
| 01:23:45.95 | Kristina Feller | Does that make sense? Okay, well, thank you very much. Let's go ahead and stop the clock and note a minute 45 left, should you want to use that. Um, after we take public comments. So thank you very much for the presentation. Don't go anywhere because this is the time that the commissioners have questions for the applicants. So let me turn this back to our virtual dais here. And Commissioner Luxenberg, do you have, I know you had some questions for the applicants specifically. Why don't we start with you? |
| 01:24:19.19 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yes, Mr. Harley, can you share your screen again with the section diagram in your first presentation? |
| 01:24:34.04 | Roger Hartley | I'm sorry, which slide? |
| 01:24:39.79 | Roger Hartley | you |
| 01:24:39.88 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 01:24:39.96 | Roger Hartley | Thank you. |
| 01:24:43.07 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yeah, that's the one. Okay. |
| 01:27:57.30 | Maria | Chair Feller, we can presume. Sorry about that. |
| 01:27:59.97 | Kristina Feller | Not a problem Maria, thank you for stopping us. So Mr. Hartley, please forgive the interruption. I think you were just about to explain How or the pitch of the roof. and if it could be modified to answer Commissioner Luxenberg's question. So over to you. |
| 01:28:19.51 | Roger Hartley | Would you like me to start over or pick up where I left off? |
| 01:28:23.05 | Kristina Feller | No, go ahead and pick up where you left off. Thank you so much. |
| 01:28:26.02 | Roger Hartley | So I was talking about the slope of the roof. We would not like to make it flatter because it begins to look like it doesn't belong to this house. So we picked six and 12. The reason it's higher than it was before, just strictly due to geometry by rotating the gable, the structure is deeper than it is wide. um excuse me wider than it is deep so because it's wider the roof came up a little bit higher than it did before but it's only about a foot |
| 01:29:08.88 | Jeffery Luxenberg | But to my question about, you prefer it to be this way, but it seems to be, the setback helps a lot, but it still seems rather imposing from the point of view of the street, and I understand that the house might be at that slope, or part of the house might be at that slope, but the house is down, so you don't see that The House doesn't feel imposing at all. And actually, I agree with the applicant that the amount of view frontage for this property is more than anything else on the street. But my question is, Uh, Could you make this work in an architectural way at a slightly less steep slope? I guess this is the question. |
| 01:29:52.61 | Roger Hartley | My answer is no. And it's bad architecture to do that, what you're suggesting, and we wouldn't wanna do it. I would prefer it to be even steeper. It would go more with the style of the house. I think we've brought it down to the minimum that works with what's there. |
| 01:30:10.07 | Richard Dotter | I think Roger, we had discussed earlier, we could lower the entire structure and still |
| 01:30:10.10 | Roger Hartley | I think Roger Reed |
| 01:30:16.38 | Richard Dotter | like a foot and still keep the garage door at the same height. I mean, that's possible. It won't look as good. It makes the construction more complicated, but |
| 01:30:22.86 | Susan Lemke | He won't look at it. |
| 01:30:27.55 | Richard Dotter | we could just lower everything afoot and like I say, keep the garage door height, which is what we wanna keep really key. That's correct. |
| 01:30:36.19 | Roger Hartley | That's correct. We can lower the plate height of the side walls and bring everything down. And it does complicate putting the door in, but I think technically it's possible. I'd prefer to do that than to change the picture of the roof. |
| 01:30:52.49 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Okay, I understand what you're telling me. The second question I have relates to this window, and I understand that the landscaping probably solves the problem, but in the event that it doesn't, is it possible you would consider frosted glass on that window? Because there are other windows in that space, so do you actually need non-frosted glass on that side of the house? |
| 01:31:19.04 | Roger Hartley | There's a question about whether we'd frosted last or not. |
| 01:31:22.41 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Well, it would be a problem if there was a requirement to frost that particular window. There are other windows into that space. |
| 01:31:31.75 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:31:31.85 | Roger Hartley | Well, certainly the ones on the garage door should be obscured, so they let light in but not views. And we could do the same on the upper window. |
| 01:31:42.55 | Jeffery Luxenberg | No, I'm not talking about the garage. I'm not talking about the elevation we're looking at. I'm talking about this one window that faces the abutters that you have the landscaping for? |
| 01:31:56.27 | Roger Hartley | Jeffrey? Oh, on the south elevation? |
| 01:31:57.97 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. Uh... I'd have to see a plan- I believe it's the right- |
| 01:32:02.05 | Nastassya Saad | I believe it's the right elevation. It's the right side. |
| 01:32:04.08 | Jeffery Luxenberg | It's the right side. I don't know how the house actually oriented. |
| 01:32:08.28 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 01:32:08.30 | Susan Lemke | Bye. |
| 01:32:08.42 | Richard Dotter | Thank you. |
| 01:32:08.55 | Susan Lemke | Thank you. |
| 01:32:08.67 | Richard Dotter | Thank you. |
| 01:32:08.72 | Susan Lemke | THE FAMILY IS NOT |
| 01:32:08.79 | Richard Dotter | Thank you. |
| 01:32:08.90 | Susan Lemke | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 01:32:09.88 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 01:32:09.94 | Susan Lemke | Slide four, maybe? |
| 01:32:11.03 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 01:32:12.47 | Kristina Feller | I think if we look at slide four, that might, there you go. |
| 01:32:15.34 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yeah, I'm talking about that window behind the landscaping. If you were to cross that, The last thing is probably sufficient, but I'm just asking the question of if you were to use frosted glass on there, there are other windows into that lower space. Would that be a problem to use frosted glass in that location? Still, let's light it. |
| 01:32:34.34 | Roger Hartley | I'm going to go. I don't think it's a problem, but we've certainly solved any privacy issues with the planting. |
| 01:32:44.29 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Okay, go ahead, Chair, follow those were my questions. Thank you. |
| 01:32:48.04 | Kristina Feller | Excellent questions. Thank you so much Commissioner Luxembourg. Commissioner Saad. |
| 01:32:54.22 | Nastassya Saad | My... Main question was also around that window. I'm just to take it one step further to see what the applicant is open to. If your neighbor at 2.30 does have a privacy concern. Would you be open to removing that window completely since it's not there currently and there is a window on the, on the the rear elevation, I believe. Sorry, I just had the plans up. WITH THAT. |
| 01:33:20.89 | Richard Dotter | Well, there's not a window on the lower level that we, You know, we talked with Roger, our engineer architect on that, and that's a structural wall. We can't put a window on that wall. So the only wall available for a window is this south wall. |
| 01:33:39.00 | Nastassya Saad | On your plans, I believe if I'm looking at them correctly on page four of the attachment three, the rear elevation, there's a window |
| 01:33:53.95 | Roger Hartley | Yes, we do have a window on that wall as well. |
| 01:33:54.00 | Nastassya Saad | THE BUSINESS. |
| 01:33:55.81 | Richard Dotter | Thank you. |
| 01:33:56.45 | Nastassya Saad | Right. on the, you're talking the lower on the on the lower yes on the lower section of the rear elevation there's a door to the right and there's a, a window, an existing, I think, believe that's an existing window. |
| 01:34:12.11 | Richard Dotter | Thank you. . |
| 01:34:12.78 | Roger Hartley | Thank you. |
| 01:34:13.04 | Richard Dotter | Thank you. |
| 01:34:13.07 | Roger Hartley | Did we see that? There is one there now, I think. Let's see. No, there's no window. No window? So that's a proposed window. |
| 01:34:22.10 | Nastassya Saad | So that's a proposed window. |
| 01:34:24.21 | Roger Hartley | I'm sorry, Ma'am. |
| 01:34:24.48 | Nastassya Saad | I'm maybe you can pull it up so we can all look at the same thing. |
| 01:34:30.74 | Roger Hartley | This is what's there now. |
| 01:34:33.25 | Nastassya Saad | Okay, so that's as well, that's a proposal. I'm looking at attachment three, the rear elevation, it looks to be a window at the bottom, so that's, going to be facing East. I believe. So what I'm just curious, Although I do think commissioner Luxembourg with the frosted glass ideas Just trying to get all the options on the table. Thank you. That's a great perspective to see. So would you be open to removing the window on the right elevation completely? The one that is not currently there, that the shrubs or those foliage is proposed to block privacy? |
| 01:35:19.04 | Richard Dotter | Well, if, yeah, we, that would be okay with us. Cause I, my understanding was we couldn't have a window on the east facing wall because, of structural reasons. But if that's not the case, and we can have a window there, then- We need a window. Then that would certainly do. We just want something to get some light into that area. I mean, it's- |
| 01:35:33.67 | Susan Lemke | Give me the window. |
| 01:35:40.82 | Richard Dotter | So yeah, that would be fine to remove. |
| 01:35:43.39 | Roger Hartley | Mm-hmm. I put it there because that's the south light and that's the best light. really shaded by the cantilever above and it's not very good light but it's Possible if you're okay with it, Rick. Yeah, that sounds fine. |
| 01:35:58.62 | Nastassya Saad | Okay, I just want to get our options before we go into deliberations on the table. Thank you. That was the only question I had. |
| 01:36:05.24 | Kristina Feller | Great question. Thank you. Commissioner Graff. |
| 01:36:09.64 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 01:36:09.66 | Richard Graef | Um... I don't have any Any questions? Ah, I wouldn't... I mean, I Things I'd like to discuss. in the deliberations. No, no questions. |
| 01:36:27.82 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Thank you very much. Vice Chair Junius. |
| 01:36:32.12 | Andrew Junius | No questions, thank you, Chair Feller. |
| 01:36:34.48 | Kristina Feller | Okay, great, thank you. Um, I appreciate all the questions you, the commission has asked so far. Um, I think that, your willingness to remove the window to the, I believe that's to the south, facing towards your neighbors is a wonderful concession. I appreciate that. Um, I also have no issues with, with the, the, the fence and the gate. I didn't before. I really appreciate you lowering that. I think that makes a big difference. I still have a little bit of concerns as commissioner Luxembourg does about the height, the overall height of this garage and would be interested if we could, could lower it or, or even a foot would be better than, than what's there now or proposed there. And I'm curious if, you know, there have been a lot of public comments on this particular item. for your project and a lot of interest for your project. And some of them also will made comment about the height and bulk of this. And I'm curious if you had a chance to read all the public comments that have been received that have been uploaded onto the agenda. And if you took those into consideration as well. |
| 01:38:03.10 | Susan Lemke | Thank you. We asked about the public comments, and so we haven't read probably all that's there. What we have received is a lot of positive comments. And I think we need to keep those in perspective because a lot of neighbors have said, you need to fix this thing. And what you have planned looks great. What's the holdup? We haven't read, but no, we probably haven't read all the public comments because we didn't know where they were. And we were. We kept asking and we didn't get a response. |
| 01:38:38.21 | Richard Dotter | We're trying. But we do feel like we've made a good effort to try to reduce the ball by pushing it back two feet and reorienting the pitch of the roof. And like, we think we could probably lower everything by a foot and still get sufficient, the garage door would be |
| 01:38:59.27 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:38:59.85 | Richard Dotter | at sufficient height then. We have attempted to address the bulk issue as best we can. |
| 01:39:08.28 | Kristina Feller | Well, I know that from the first hearing that we had, I don't think there was anybody on the commission and I don't mean to speak for anyone out of turn, but we know you have to do something to where your carport is. There is no one on this commission that thought it was acceptable what you've had there. That's not what we're talking about. I just want to make sure that as we move into public comment and deliberations that we have an opportunity to get all of this out onto the record and you have the opportunity therefore to comment on it. So these aren't meant to be trick questions or anything like that. It's meant to really get everything out into the open in the public discussion here and make sure that everything was thoughtfully considered. And I certainly think, again, lowering the fence is a huge, huge good move. I think, you know, your willingness to lower the garage and your willingness to remove one of the windows and still keep one for your storage area is important at this time. So I don't have any... further questions right now. I just wanna go back to the commissioners one more time to ask if they have any specific questions for the applicant at this time before we move into public comment. Okay, it does not look like it. So, Um, Don't go too far. If you could put yourselves on mute, we're going to move into public comment here and you'll have the benefit of hearing from the public as well. So if you'd like to make comment on this item, which is 6B this evening, if you could raise your hand in the Zoom application, or press star nine on your cell phone. Okay, it looks like Nicole Bach is our first hand up. Good. Good evening and welcome if we can get the timer up Maria to three minutes. Um, you will have three minutes to make your presentation and you can unmute yourself and share your screen. |
| 01:41:19.62 | Nicole Bach | Am I unmuted? |
| 01:41:20.47 | Kristina Feller | I'm not sure. Now I can hear you, yes. You want to share your screen now for your video. |
| 01:41:23.76 | Nicole Bach | Just share your screen now. Good evening. I would like to remind the last hearing where Chair Feller gave a guideline of transparency regarding this garage. And very frankly, I think the idea of moving the roof is good. pushing it back is good. But there is no transparency at this point achieved yet. And I just wanted to remind the planning commissioners that there have been three proposals of double garages on Glen Drive. which have ended up needing to have one enclosed carport one enclosed garage and one fully open carport as the condition of approval. So I think that in all fairness, this project should be considered in the light of the other projects that were built on Glen Drive and they're part of public record. I appreciate my neighbors agreeing not to put that window. Thank you very much. I do want to address parking because of the parking issue I addressed already in January and was not part, not added to the file. widening the garage more than it is now, which has already two cars. is going to push back the parking towards our property because it's already reduced one parking spot. And should it be widened, there will be a new red zone and that red zone will actually condemn a full parking spot. So I just wanted to put this to you to remember to look at the parking issue as well. And also the guardrail because the property owners mentioned the risk of falling through if they didn't have a, a fence and on the other side of the garage there's a guardrail but it's going to be cut and i want to know what's going to happen to that guardrail once they cut it So this is the extent of my public comment. And I thank you very much for your consideration. |
| 01:43:45.74 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Thank you for being here tonight and for your comments. We appreciate it. Uh, the next speaker I see is. Scott Jampal if I am pronouncing your name incorrectly please do correct me Welcome this evening. You have three minutes for public comment. |
| 01:44:02.60 | Scott Jampal | Good evening, you got my name correct. Thank you. Impressive. I just last time spoke a little bit about Rick and Suzanne and their character. And I just wanted, I just as a neighbor, their direct neighbor on the other side, just show that I think what they've done between now and the last meeting has, has been a good example of that character and their willingness to, to work in this community with the feedback they've gotten. And I guess what I would say about, uh their um property is we should make sure that they're they're held they're not held to a different standard than other neighbors in the neighborhood are and i think when you look at the the garages in the neighborhood and you look at the way the houses have um obstructed the view of the street around uh as as they pointed out that we shouldn't hold them to a different standard they've actually the opposite, which is maintain the views that they've had, and they've been willing to work on that. And so again, I'm in support of the project. I think it'll be good for the neighborhood, and I think it'll be good for their property. And I think it won't be very disruptive to to this part of Glen anyways. |
| 01:45:14.77 | Kristina Feller | Right. Thank you so much for being here this evening and thank you for coming to make comment in support of your neighbor. Thank you. Okay, the next speaker I see is Scott Couture. Welcome this evening. If you could unmute yourself, share your camera, and three minutes for public comment. |
| 01:45:35.01 | Scott Couture | Okay, thank you. I'm here kind of in two capacities. One, I am representing the, The owners of 241 and 253 Glen drive right across the street, rich and Robin Levin dog want to express their full support for the project. And they like to express the full support as it is proposed. Second capacity is I, as I noted, I'm working across the street. So I'm there basically on a daily basis. I've seen this property. I know the neighborhood very well now, been there for about six, seven months now. I think the key looking at this garage proposal is not you know, the 20 feet with of, you know, non transparent garage, but it's really the whole breadth of the project, the whole breadth of property You stand back, it's about 128 feet of street footage on there. And pretty much all of it right now has the visibility over the roof to the view. Garage will take out 20, 22 feet of that. probably less than 15%. So you're gonna have well over 100 feet of view for this property, vastly far greater than any property on the downhill side than the adjacent homes around there. So I think the key to look at it is, yeah, two car garage may seem when you press your face up against it, but if you stand back and walk through the whole property, It is 128 feet and vast majority of that will still be wide open for the view. And that's it. Thank you. |
| 01:47:04.51 | Kristina Feller | Great. Thanks, Scott. Thank you for your comments tonight. The next speaker I see is Carol de Remmer. Hopefully I've also pronounced your name correctly. Welcome this evening. If you could unmute yourself and share your camera. the floor is yours. |
| 01:47:23.95 | Jim DeRamer | um, This is Jim DeRamer. This is the problem with sharing a a Zoom account, Um, I've known the applicants for a long time. And I really think it's time to get this moving. And I just have one last thing to say. When you started talking about the south facing window, What in God's name is the difference between that window and somebody standing outside on the deck? These are privacy issues that you brought up. I don't think there's any privacy issue here at all. Someone's just groaning to make noise. I really believe. I don't think that's a problem. That's something to talk about at all. So I urge you to pass this tonight and get it going. Thank you. |
| 01:48:09.26 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, thank you so much for your comments tonight and for being here. I'm looking for any other members of the public who would like to make public comment on this item tonight. Seeing none, I will close public comment and bring the discussion back up to our racial dias here. Commissioner Luxenberg, would you like to start us off? |
| 01:48:33.41 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I guess. I think the two-foot setback is a vast improvement. I think the glass at the top of the garage is an improvement as well. I think that they need security, so I don't think putting clear glass in the lower part would make logical sense. I am troubled by the height. I am heartened by the height. I am heartened by the fact that they think they could bring it down a foot to bring it under the height that the previous one was at. I do think rotating the garage does make sense. I think the window is not a huge issue. I think that the landscaping will probably do the job, removing the window would do the job, crossing the glass would do the job. If they're willing to take it out, then that, I guess, makes that problem go away. But I think that's not a huge issue. So I think that we all agree that this needs to happen. So I think with a reduction in, with a one foot reduction in height, I think I can support it. I think that a lower slope might be better, but I understand the architectural considerations. So. Those are my thoughts at the moment. I haven't really formulated where I will go with this. |
| 01:50:03.47 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Commissioner Graham. |
| 01:50:07.12 | Richard Graef | Oh, okay. Thank you, I was just looking at my notes. . Ah, let's see. Well, first of all, I would like to compliment the applicant. I think they've done a lot to improve the project. in many ways. Um, I still have some issues and I'll try to lay them out for you Um, let's see. Uh, well, transparency to me does not seem to be an issue, uh, with the garage, It's a garage and there's no way that anybody's gonna be able see through that garage. So the windows and the garage doors, They are nice, they are a relief, they will let some I don't think that's a good thing. that's an issue because I think the discussion of the views has been pretty well and that we're really not losing any huge amounts of views here. um, the window. The privacy issue, I think it's a non-issue. whatever. they want to do down there is fine with me. I'm not sure. I, um, still concerns about the overall bulk of the garage. And I understand the rationale for rotating the roof that was a good move and got it away from the tree. but it still adds a lot of mass to that structure. And, you know, I was looking again at a bunch of the garages and structures like that. in the neighborhood and many of them have just shed roofs or very shallow sloped roofs or flat roofs. for the most part, and they're . a large frontage. Whereas this one is, even though they moved it back a couple of feet, it's still right there on the street. So My feeling about it is that the Um, overall size of the structure I feel could be reduced If you put it in a Xerox machine and reduce it, Um, But maybe that roof doesn't need to be a, a, uh, pitched roof like that. Maybe it could be a shed roof that starts just above the garage door and raises a little bit towards the back of that. and you don't need all that space up there anyway. So I'm just thinking that maybe there's another solution to the roof. as far as matching up with the architecture of the house, You really, Unless you're at the house or in the house, you don't. or even then you probably don't, you don't see those two structures together. The house is pretty much hidden. grade. Uh, the idea of um, the uh, I totally understand the architectural continuity aspect and I respect that but I feel that. uh, it's still kind of imposing You know, still rather large. And if there's anyway. to reduce the bulk of that building. I totally support that. Um, parking I I don't understand. um, why or how a parking space on the street is being lost. that's the case and there's an issue Um, Um... Anyway, I just thought I'd bring that up because it was in my notes. Mm-hmm. So basically, those are my comments. I'd be interested to hear the rest of the commissioners. Thank you. take on us. Thank you. |
| 01:54:31.18 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, thank you, Commissioner Graff. Thank you very much. Commissioner Saad. |
| 01:54:36.76 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you, Chair Feller. I think I'm right in line with Commissioner Graff, I actually wanted to, hopefully we could have a discussion, maybe it's something that the applicant can help us with, but I don't understand the lost parking space as well, that comment that's been made. I know there's that red zone and I can see it in the public comment pictures, but I'm unclear about what the implications of an approval for this means for a potentially lost parking space. I'm hoping we can chat about that. Um, I think it's too large. And I understand that might sound frustrating for the applicant. As you said, Chair Feller, it has to be replaced. We're all in agreement that it does need to be replaced, but I just think that the mask is, large and not consistent with the neighborhood, those single those carports that have one open THE FAMILY IS space and one cover is the majority in that area. Um, I understand the need for a covered lot, if that's the desire, and not trying to take that away from the applicant, but just as I mean, that space is, you know, irrelevant up at the top. And it's, It's not a useful space. The design is nice. I do like the way it looks. So compliments to the design, but especially with that fence going in, you're really not gonna see the, the house, the house is lower, we all know that. And so I do think they're almost slightly separate structures. So I would also encourage and stand behind just to get further further reduction. I don't think the pitch is um, necessary, necessary. necessarily necessary. So, um, But... I also thank the applicant for the changes. I think it's great that we're all working together. I would also be a proponent of removing that window. I think it's different. Yes, if you stand up, on the deck. I can see those pictures were very helpful. to looking to 230 Glen, we're getting a pretty clear view to the neighboring structure, but it's a lot It's a different scenario when someone is standing outside and they're quite visible versus potentially the concern and I'm not making any implications that this applicant is standing in that space and looking out that window towards their neighbor, but it just removes the possibility of any privacy concerns. And if they're willing to do that, I think we should take them up on removing that right? I don't have them now, but the ones we've all talked about removing that window, I'd be a proponent of that. So definitely open to a discussion, but that's where I am right now. |
| 01:57:25.65 | Kristina Feller | Okay, thank you very much. Vice Chair Junius. |
| 01:57:30.14 | Andrew Junius | Thank you, Chair Feller, and I do want to thank everybody for their I would like to thank the I was supportive of the original design and the original massing. I'm even more supportive of the current design, the current massing. I'm not sure. I'm sympathetic to some of the design arguments and issues being raised by the various other commissioners. I understand them, I'm not sure I agree with them. but I'm fully in support of the project as it's being proposed today. and I await further discussion from the Commission. |
| 01:58:02.10 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, thank you very much. I do have a couple of comments here, but I wanted to quickly I just get a clarification from Director Moore. and um assistant planner east i believe that you spoke to dpw regarding uh any concern about parking and um So I don't think that's on the table for discussion tonight on the street. Is that correct? |
| 01:58:28.54 | Jim Moore | We looked into the question about Um, someone had commented about this, the actual red that will that was put on this curb. And we looked into the disposition of that red mark But if you approve this project tonight, the new garage would take away that marking on the curb. It's my understanding. It's not a full parking space. It's just that distance of the red, which looks like about four feet. We did not do any analysis in terms of whether that would ripple into a lost parking space or not. And I don't believe that the issue of on the street parking is relative at this point to this application. |
| 01:59:09.41 | Andrew Junius | Excellent. |
| 01:59:09.72 | Jim Moore | And if you, by the way, if you do not approve this project, then we would do further analysis on what happened. How did that red get there? And. And there's a process to go on that, but it's not relative to your decision directly. Thank you. |
| 01:59:24.19 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Appreciate that clarification. Thank you for looking into that before this evening. Um, I guess I want to start out with the fact that the views from the street Because this is a heavily traffic street for walkers and hikers around Sausalito. that the views with a lowered fence will be maintained. So that is, to me, very critical. And the issue of that transparency and not obstructing those views with a fence and a garage are really key. And that's something that when the first time we heard this, I believe last month, I really was not pleased with. much happier with the solution that we have now There's no question in my mind, having, you know, walking by there quite often many times in a week. Um, that it can be dangerous there, particularly with cars and of course the construction of the hill across the street, which is looking good as well. But so I really like the fence. I am not. wild about the size of the garage, but, um, I also appreciate the intention of the architecture to somewhat match what the existing building is. I'm willing to, because we've maintained the rest of the views everywhere else, having that garage there does not bother me so much. It bothered me before, but... collectively I think we're doing much better. I would want to consider certain conditions of approval if we go that route. And I just wanna throw them out for further conversation with the rest of the commission here. I think one is the removal of the window on what I would call the south side of the storage room. Number two would be if there's the ability to lower a foot or more of the garage, I would be willing to consider that since that seems possible and the applicant is willing. um the the third is storage means storage garage means it's for cars not for storage of every every receipt you've owned since 1975 and so we see a lot of that it's a problem in Sausalito we're trying to um rehabilitate that in Sausalito so we don't have such a car and barking problem So I would want the garage to be used for cars and the storage to be used for storage. And I wanna make that fairly clear. Otherwise, I would entertain the idea of approving that this evening. So any thoughts about those several conditions out there or any other concerns or consternation I know that Not everyone is there yet. |
| 02:02:24.94 | Andrew Junius | I'd certainly be supportive of those conditions and changes, Chair Fetler. |
| 02:02:29.06 | Kristina Feller | I know. Mr. Luxembourg. |
| 02:02:32.38 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I would be supportive of those changes. |
| 02:02:35.94 | Kristina Feller | Commissioner San? |
| 02:02:38.02 | Nastassya Saad | I would be supportive of almost all of those changes. I think the window is definitely my main, I'm definitely on board with you there. |
| 02:02:50.31 | Nastassya Saad | I'm not comfortable with the scale, so I'm not sure if I'm, going to reach a consensus with you all, but, um, but that's where I am still right now, thank you. |
| 02:03:00.24 | Kristina Feller | Okay, that's okay. Commissioner Graff. |
| 02:03:04.24 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 02:03:04.26 | Richard Graef | . |
| 02:03:04.78 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 02:03:05.54 | Richard Graef | Well, I'd like to hear from the applicant as to whether they would even consider a different kind of roof, which would be the most. would have the most effect on the overall mass of that structure I still care. that is. kind of big and in your face. Um, Although nicely designed, I'm not criticizing the design concept, as it is. I think everything about the project has been pretty well worked out. But I'm still uncomfortable with the overall math. of that. If it could be narrower, by a foot, if it could be shorter, as much as possible, anything to reduce the overall bulk of that structure, I would be supporting it. So maybe the applicant can respond there. |
| 02:04:02.48 | Kristina Feller | Sure, we will ask the applicant to come back up here, but but just, I just wanna make sure that we're clear with them or Is is the scale sort of the same issue with both of you in that? Is it more of a height than it is a width or is it both? Or is it also deaf? |
| 02:04:24.99 | Nastassya Saad | for me is definitely a height. concern. I think structurally from the way the applicant has explained, the need for the variants. I do understand the concept and the need for the variants. So, It's really the hype at this point for me. |
| 02:04:44.77 | Kristina Feller | and Commissioner Graff |
| 02:04:46.76 | Nastassya Saad | Yeah. |
| 02:04:46.96 | Richard Graef | Yes. |
| 02:04:47.33 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 02:04:48.31 | Kristina Feller | I'm sorry. |
| 02:04:48.77 | Richard Graef | That's my biggest concern. It was the hike. Yeah. |
| 02:04:53.15 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 02:04:54.13 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 02:04:54.15 | Jeffery Luxenberg | And I just have a question about the height of the |
| 02:04:54.35 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 02:04:59.67 | Jeffery Luxenberg | By the way, I just want to make that you're aware of that. on the, |
| 02:05:03.70 | Kristina Feller | I'm sorry, can you start over? |
| 02:05:05.85 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I said, I concur with commissioner graph that a shed roof on this property would be a better solution given the vault. |
| 02:05:12.51 | Unknown | I mean, |
| 02:05:13.37 | Jeffery Luxenberg | To reach a compromise, I would be willing to lower the thing by a foot, but I concur that that would be a much better solution. |
| 02:05:20.46 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Okay. All right, well with that, could we ask the applicant to come back up to our virtual conversation here. Mr. Dotter and Ms. Lemke. Mr. Hartley, yeah. |
| 02:05:41.27 | Roger Hartley | Yeah, I'd like to say something about bulk. I think what you're struggling with is the issue of being so close to the road. It really does have more of a, an impact because it's close, but the, |
| 02:05:54.73 | Adam East | you |
| 02:05:57.69 | Roger Hartley | The reality is that this is an unusual lot. It's very shallow and we don't have options to push it back. My guess is if we had that option and we were able to push it back, you wouldn't have the same objection. So in line with what usually happens with the variants where special considerations are made for odd configurations of the lot, I think you should give some consideration to this being one of those. And, and, and, uh, have a, the same bulk that you might accept further back, be acceptable in this case, closer to the street. As far as changing this to a shed roof, I strongly objected to that. I just think it's bad architecture. You see bad architecture all over the place from committees who all have different ideas of what's good. you know, before long, good intentions turn into bad results and um i i just don't think it's the right way to go i don't know if rick and suzanne have a different opinion about but that's that's mine i would not like to see if uh shed roof other than that we've done everything you've asked we've made it smaller we've pushed it back we've looked and we're willing to lower it another foot and we can deal with the window Thank you. Thank you. So we would just like to get your support on this. |
| 02:07:21.01 | Richard Dotter | Yeah, well, one comment was, can we make, can we reduce the width of the garage just to reduce the ball? And we looked into that and right now it's at the minimum width and minimum depth for two cars. It just can't be made any narrower. Not trucks, cars. Yeah, just an intermediate, two intermediate sized cars will fit in there. |
| 02:07:36.98 | Susan Lemke | Not trucks, cars. |
| 02:07:43.76 | Richard Dotter | and you can open the doors any narrower and you cannot open the door. So we can't make it any narrower in the same with the depth just to get you know intermediate size cars like 17 and a half feet long And that's what the garage will support now. And as far as the height, we understand the concern about the bulk. And as has been mentioned, Don. what we think is about the best we can. Push it back two feet. and you reorient the, the the pitch reorient the roof. but, to lower it or to make it into just a shed roof, we really just don't want to do that to me. |
| 02:08:21.90 | Scott Jampal | It looks so good. |
| 02:08:23.13 | Richard Dotter | a shed roof just |
| 02:08:25.41 | Scott Jampal | We don't want to. |
| 02:08:25.58 | Richard Dotter | We don't want to spend $400,000 on this and end up with just, a shed roof we want something that just looks architecturally pleasing and to me that means having some kind of gable roof. You know, we're proposing a 6 and 12 And then we could lower the foot, just lower the whole structure of foot. in maybe consider lowering the pitch, instead of six and 12, does five and 12, and just approach it like that. But we really just don't wanna spend three or $400,000 and just end up with a shed roof. |
| 02:09:04.86 | Susan Lemke | It just looks tacky. |
| 02:09:06.80 | Richard Dotter | So. |
| 02:09:07.24 | Susan Lemke | it doesn't fit with the nature of our house. You all have seen the house. It's a cottage house. We want to keep that. We want this to be something we can be proud of. |
| 02:09:17.99 | Richard Dotter | And I think most all the garages in our neighborhood do have pitched roofs. flat roofs, but the majority of them are a pitched roof. And then on the comment about the lost parking, that just bewilders me. We're talking about, adding like two feet to the width of it. And I mean, two feet is not gonna reduce our car parking area. That makes no sense at all to me. |
| 02:09:42.01 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:09:42.12 | Kristina Feller | I'm going to make |
| 02:09:44.18 | Richard Dotter | Thank you. |
| 02:09:44.20 | Kristina Feller | Yeah. |
| 02:09:44.38 | Richard Dotter | And then in the red, |
| 02:09:46.16 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:09:46.29 | Richard Dotter | in the wood. |
| 02:09:47.03 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Forgive my interruption. That isn't what we're concerned about here. We're coming back to it. We've already, Director Moore's already addressed that and it has no bearing on what we would be approving or conditioning this evening. |
| 02:09:48.08 | Richard Dotter | We're good. |
| 02:09:52.48 | Adam East | Thank you. |
| 02:09:52.50 | Susan Lemke | Okay. |
| 02:09:52.72 | Adam East | Thank you. |
| 02:10:03.52 | Kristina Feller | So I understand your concern. We're really just asking |
| 02:10:03.55 | Unknown | So that's... |
| 02:10:08.04 | Kristina Feller | about the height, the bulk, the pitch, a different type of roof. |
| 02:10:13.73 | Richard Dotter | Yes. |
| 02:10:15.62 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:10:15.64 | Susan Lemke | Okay. We really want your support and we would love for it to happen tonight. We've waited two years and, um, We feel like we've done everything we can and we're making more concessions tonight. We're, willing to make this work, we just We don't want it to look terrible. |
| 02:10:37.91 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Thank you. Let me bring the discussion back up here to the virtual dais and ask Commissioner Graff, Commissioner Saad, Commissioner Luxenberg, Vice Chair, if there are any other questions for clarification to the applicant. |
| 02:10:58.52 | Kristina Feller | I don't have any other questions. Yes, Commissioner Graff. |
| 02:11:01.35 | Richard Graef | Yeah, I would like to hear um, What all could be done. to lower the roof. Um, possibly both by dropping the plate and reducing the angle of the pitch of the roof. Um, As I said, I do support the project. and and And I support the design as well. It's just, you know, my feeling about it is that the bulk of that structure so close to the street Mm-hmm. is bothersome to me. I would be willing to Um, support the project. Uh, if everything can be done to lower that roof will be done. |
| 02:12:02.49 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 02:12:04.09 | Richard Graef | keeping the pitch, keeping the design, keeping the window in there. just try to reduce the overall face of the building. |
| 02:12:16.36 | Kristina Feller | And commissioner Saad, are you in line with commissioner Graff? |
| 02:12:21.85 | Nastassya Saad | I am, yep, that was well put. |
| 02:12:24.32 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 02:12:24.83 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. Thanks. Okay. |
| 02:12:28.19 | Kristina Feller | Well, let's, um, I think we should give the opportunity one more time. Perhaps it's Mr. Hartley or the applicant. If Mr. Hartley, you can come up here one more time. Explain to us if we can get any more than a foot lower on this roof. |
| 02:12:51.58 | Roger Hartley | Well, of course we can change the pitch to the extent we change it. I think it becomes a worse project. I don't think anybody walking by is going to feel a few inches one way or the other as they walk by. But if that makes somebody happy to make it a five and 12, it would come down a few more inches. |
| 02:13:05.65 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:13:13.21 | Roger Hartley | approximately one foot more. |
| 02:13:19.56 | Kristina Feller | Okay, so originally you had said that it could be lowered a foot and that was just because of the structural. |
| 02:13:27.42 | Roger Hartley | Yeah, I think we will. I think we've already agreed to lower the plate line so everything comes down in its current configuration one foot. |
| 02:13:29.02 | Kristina Feller | Me. |
| 02:13:37.68 | Kristina Feller | Okay. And then... |
| 02:13:38.83 | Roger Hartley | If it's a nine-foot point, we can make it an eight-foot point. |
| 02:13:41.33 | Kristina Feller | Okay, and then if you change the pitch, from to to five and twelve versus six and twelve it's another foot so it's two feet |
| 02:13:50.05 | Roger Hartley | No, I think it's less than a foot. |
| 02:13:53.43 | Kristina Feller | Okay. I'm sorry. |
| 02:13:55.87 | Roger Hartley | I'm sorry, how many inches? |
| 02:13:58.47 | Kristina Feller | He said a few inches. Thank you. |
| 02:14:00.09 | Roger Hartley | A few inches. In 10 feet it would be... |
| 02:14:07.52 | Roger Hartley | 10 times zero, 10 inches, I think. |
| 02:14:11.18 | Kristina Feller | Okay. All right, thank you very much, Mr. Hartley. Thank you. So to the commission, I would ask, If You know it can already be lowered a foot. And if we condition this to change the pitch to five and 12 versus six and 12, Are you comfortable with that? Commissioner Graff? |
| 02:14:33.45 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 02:14:33.47 | Kristina Feller | Sure. Okay. Let's go for it. |
| 02:14:34.69 | Richard Graef | Let's go for it. Let's get it done. |
| 02:14:37.01 | Kristina Feller | Mr. Saund? |
| 02:14:41.92 | Nastassya Saad | in the interest of pushing this forward, yes. Okay. |
| 02:14:50.36 | Kristina Feller | All right, I would like to make a motion to approve this project with the following conditions. And if staff, you can help write these down. The first is to lower the height of the roof one foot and change in addition to that change the pitch to uh to 5 and 12 verses 6 to 12. to remove |
| 02:15:13.09 | Jim Moore | Madam Madam Chair I believe your intent was to lower the plate height by one foot. |
| 02:15:14.34 | Kristina Feller | Yes. |
| 02:15:20.26 | Jim Moore | from nine to eight feet and then reduce the pitch after that. |
| 02:15:24.23 | Kristina Feller | Okay, thank you very much. You're correct. Thank you. And then to remove the window on the south elevation of the storage unit below, The garage. And then storage is it's conditioned to be used for storage, and the potting shed and everything else a non-occupied space that way. and that the garage is to be specifically used for vehicles. |
| 02:16:01.09 | Kristina Feller | Does anybody have any other conditions that they would like to add or modify? |
| 02:16:07.01 | Andrew Junius | I have a question about condition. |
| 02:16:07.21 | Kristina Feller | question. |
| 02:16:09.35 | Andrew Junius | Has the commission ever imposed a condition like that? I'm not sure that's very, that's in my opinion, I We're talking about the use of the cars versus use of storage. I mean, it's a private property. I know where you're going. I totally agree with your thinking, but I just, I've never heard of a condition like that. So I'm curious if staff has ever heard of something like that either. |
| 02:16:31.44 | Kristina Feller | I'm aware of doing it once, but only once. |
| 02:16:35.90 | Jim Moore | Not the garage part, but the storage space underneath. I've had conditions like that in terms of be used for storage, Just wanna confirm, Chair, Feller, you said storage or a potting shed that it's currently being used as? |
| 02:16:53.60 | Kristina Feller | The owner wants to use it as a potting shed. |
| 02:16:56.64 | Jim Moore | Right, so storage or continued use as a potting shed. |
| 02:16:59.78 | Andrew Junius | Thank you. |
| 02:16:59.79 | Kristina Feller | Yes. |
| 02:17:00.53 | Jim Moore | Thank you. |
| 02:17:01.73 | Andrew Junius | And my question really had more to do how to control somebody you know, using their garage for something else. |
| 02:17:10.15 | Jim Moore | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 02:17:10.61 | Andrew Junius | Anyway. |
| 02:17:11.03 | Jim Moore | you I think that might be a larger policy issue to revisit in terms of code enforcement and the codes. |
| 02:17:20.51 | Kristina Feller | Okay, we can amend that however you'd like, but I'd like to make this motion to approve this project this evening. |
| 02:17:28.48 | Andrew Junius | Well, again, I've supportive of everything up to the restriction about trying to regulate what happens inside a garage. I'm just not comfortable with that. |
| 02:17:38.81 | Kristina Feller | Okay, then remove it. Thank you. |
| 02:17:41.32 | Andrew Junius | that. |
| 02:17:41.39 | Kristina Feller | Yeah. |
| 02:17:41.41 | Andrew Junius | THE END OF |
| 02:17:41.46 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:17:41.59 | Andrew Junius | Thank you. |
| 02:17:41.63 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:17:41.64 | Andrew Junius | Thank you. |
| 02:17:43.33 | Kristina Feller | Do I have a second? |
| 02:17:47.28 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Can you please call the roll call, Director Moore? |
| 02:17:57.45 | Jim Moore | You're muted, Jim. I'm so sorry, thank you. Chair Feller. |
| 02:18:03.50 | Kristina Feller | Yes. |
| 02:18:04.75 | Jim Moore | Vice chair juniors. Yes. Commissioner Graff. |
| 02:18:07.82 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:18:07.92 | Jim Moore | Thank you. Commissioner Luxembourg. Yeah. Commissioner Saad. |
| 02:18:12.35 | Kristina Feller | Yes. |
| 02:18:13.08 | Jim Moore | The motion carries unanimously. Thank you. |
| 02:18:15.07 | Kristina Feller | Great. Thank you very much. Okay. |
| 02:18:18.35 | Jim Moore | And sorry, forgive me chair Feller. I would just like to make the statement that for the public's general understanding Any action of the planning commission may be appealed within 10 days of the action to the city council. You must complete the required appeal form and pay the appeal fee within 10 days of this action for the appeal to be timely filed questions regarding how to file an appeal may be directed to the project planner or community development department staff thank you |
| 02:18:47.12 | Kristina Feller | Thank you very much. Okay, I think that completes our business items. So on to item seven on our agenda, which is adjournment. And I move to adjourn. |
| 02:18:57.19 | Andrew Junius | Mm. Thank you. |
| 02:18:59.64 | Kristina Feller | All in favor. |
| 02:19:00.74 | Andrew Junius | I |
| 02:19:00.75 | Kristina Feller | Uh, |
| 02:19:01.02 | Nastassya Saad | Yeah. |
| 02:19:01.04 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:19:01.14 | Nastassya Saad | Right. |
| 02:19:01.26 | Kristina Feller | you |
| 02:19:01.29 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. Thank you. Aye. |
| 02:19:02.27 | Andrew Junius | Thank you so much. Good night, everybody. |
| 02:19:03.33 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you guys. Good night everybody. Good job. |
| 02:19:05.83 | Andrew Junius | Thank you. |
| 02:19:06.27 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:19:06.31 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 02:19:07.00 | Andrew Junius | Bye-bye. Thank you. |
| 02:19:08.55 | Jim Moore | I |