| Time | Speaker | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:07.22 | Unknown | over to you, Maria, |
| 00:00:09.03 | Kristina Feller | and to Dan to let everybody know. |
| 00:00:11.22 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:00:11.24 | Maria (Staff) | I just want to send you this. |
| 00:00:12.48 | Maria (Staff) | Thank you. |
| 00:00:17.75 | Dan (Staff) | I'm just going to say, |
| 00:00:18.49 | Maria (Staff) | Thank you. |
| 00:00:18.51 | Dan (Staff) | We're ready, Chair. Okay, and you're recording? Yep. |
| 00:00:22.83 | Kristina Feller | Okay, excellent. Thank you very much. |
| 00:00:24.57 | Dan (Staff) | Bye. I'll start it out there, Chair Feller. |
| 00:00:26.54 | Kristina Feller | I'll start it. Okay. Good evening everybody and welcome to the joint special planning commission and historic preservation committee for this Wednesday, June 15th. I'd like to call this meeting to order. And before we call our respective roles for each commission, I just want to point out to anybody here in the public, who is expecting the regular Planning Commission hearing for this evening. That will start at the end of this joint special meeting and we're expecting that to be at about 7.30. So you are welcome to stay on. It is the same Zoom link. So interim director Hortard, over to you. I'm going to call roll. |
| 00:01:07.53 | Dan (Staff) | Thank you. Thank you. Let me start off by saying good evening, Chair Feller and Chair Nichols and fellow commissioners from both esteemed commissions. This meeting is being held pursuing to government code section 54953 subsection E. And in light of the declared state of emergency, the special joint meeting of the planning commission and Historic Preservation Commission on June 15, 2022, will be conducted telephonically through Zoom and broadcast live on the city's website. With that, I'll begin call to order for both commissions. Commissioner Graff. Yeah. Commissioner Luxenberg. Here. Commissioner Saad. here. Vice Chair Junius |
| 00:01:51.96 | Andrew Junius | present. |
| 00:01:53.28 | Dan (Staff) | Chair Christina Fowler. |
| 00:01:54.95 | Andrew Junius | I'm not sure. |
| 00:01:55.86 | Dan (Staff) | We have a form of the planning commission. Now I'll move on to the historic preservation commission. Commissioner Berkowitz? Yeah. |
| 00:02:09.66 | Dan (Staff) | What's out of here? |
| 00:02:12.94 | Kristina Feller | Levy's on mute. |
| 00:02:19.44 | Dan (Staff) | Commissioner Berkowitz, if you can hear me. Here, can you hear me now? Yes, thank you. Somebody had muted me. |
| 00:02:25.27 | Nate Berkowitz | Somebody can tell us. |
| 00:02:28.28 | Dan (Staff) | Commissioner Warner. |
| 00:02:33.32 | Dan (Staff) | Vice Chair Newman, care. Chair Nichols? |
| 00:02:38.22 | Chair Nichols | Here. |
| 00:02:38.99 | Dan (Staff) | We have a quorum of the Historic Preservation Commission. |
| 00:02:43.26 | Chair Nichols | Thank you. According to our agenda, the portion of this joint meeting will be the HPC reviewing the project for a certificate of appropriateness. So Dan, would you like to present us with that project? Or we don't have any minutes. |
| 00:03:06.43 | Kristina Feller | Chair Nichols before that could I ask that we make a motion collectively to approve the agenda Sure. Okay, so I will entertain a motion to approve the agenda. |
| 00:03:19.59 | Chair Nichols | So moved. Second. |
| 00:03:21.40 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Perfect. Director Horton. |
| 00:03:25.23 | Dan (Staff) | Commissioner Graff, Oh, yeah. Commissioner Luxembourg. Yes. Commissioner Saad? |
| 00:03:32.15 | Kristina Feller | Yeah. |
| 00:03:33.03 | Dan (Staff) | Vice Chair Junius? Yes. Chair Feller? |
| 00:03:36.30 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 00:03:36.32 | Dan (Staff) | Yes. Commissioner Berkowitz? You hear... |
| 00:03:38.92 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Bye. |
| 00:03:38.97 | Kristina Feller | you're not. |
| 00:03:39.14 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 00:03:40.62 | Dan (Staff) | commercial commissioner Warner Absent. Vice Chair Newman? Yes. CHAIR NICHOLS? |
| 00:03:48.33 | Chair Nichols | Yes. |
| 00:03:49.29 | Dan (Staff) | Motion carries. |
| 00:03:50.85 | Chair Nichols | Thank you. |
| 00:03:51.39 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. And Sergio, just a quick question to you. Do we take public comment on items not on the agenda this evening for this special joint session? |
| 00:04:02.24 | Mary Wagner | No, you are not required to have a general comment period on a special meeting. |
| 00:04:07.23 | Kristina Feller | Okay, very well. Then Chair Nichols, I think, why don't we move into public hearing? And first ask any of our joint commissioners if there are any ex parte communications that we need to announce. |
| 00:04:22.15 | Chair Nichols | Thank you. Would you like to start with us? Sure, go ahead. Okay, are there any commissioner commissioners on the HPC, namely David or Nate, that have any ex parte communications to declare on this project, which is 12 L portal? |
| 00:04:38.96 | Nate Berkowitz | None. Berkowitz. |
| 00:04:41.93 | Chair Nichols | OK, seeing none, I have none either. Back to you, Commissioner, Chair Feller. |
| 00:04:48.32 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 00:04:48.36 | Richard Graef | Right. |
| 00:04:48.44 | Kristina Feller | Commissioner Graff? |
| 00:04:50.69 | Richard Graef | No. |
| 00:04:51.92 | Kristina Feller | Commissioner Saad. none. Commissioner Luxenberg? |
| 00:04:55.51 | Andrew Junius | on. |
| 00:04:56.44 | Kristina Feller | Vice Chair Junius? |
| 00:04:58.28 | Andrew Junius | I had some last year when we first saw this, but nothing recent. So no. |
| 00:05:02.89 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. I have none here either. So let's move into public hearing item four and four A. |
| 00:05:10.70 | Dan (Staff) | Okay. Thank you, Chair Feller and members of the commission members and chair Nichols and members of both commissions. The public hearing tonight, 6A is 12 Elportel Street and 690 Bridgeway. for a certificate of appropriateness. Um, Project ID is 2022. badge 00100. Um, And I will, The summary is a request for certificate of appropriateness for exterior modifications. to a structure which is located within and contributes to the historic overlay district. I will be giving the presentation. See if I can share my screen correctly here. I think that was easy. |
| 00:06:00.13 | Dan (Staff) | Everybody see my screen? |
| 00:06:01.92 | Chair Nichols | Thank you. |
| 00:06:03.86 | Dan (Staff) | Thank you. On the agenda tonight is a public hearing for 12 hour El Partel and 690 Bridgeway, both for a certificate of appropriateness and changes to an approved project. The site location is at the corner of Bridgeway and El Portal. and is proposing approximately 4,000 square feet on the ground floor to take up the old L. Uh, um, Uh, 2D Cafe, Cafe 2D and the art gallery that was on the first floor. Location is in the downtown historic district near the waterfront and the property is zoned Central Commercial under Downtown Historic District Neighboring properties are a mix of commercial commercial waterfront and public parks. |
| 00:06:52.74 | Dan (Staff) | The Historic Preservation Commission is concerned with the existing conditions of the structure and the site. And if the property qualifies or not as a historical resource, according to the criteria contained in public resource code, and Title 14 of the California Code of Regulations. and the historic architect, Mark Holberg, preservation architecture has assessed and deem the subject property and the subject scope of work on the ground floor to have no historical significance as the historical architectural significance are based on their direct association to Sausalito's historic downtown. and waterfront. THE RUN. Sorry. |
| 00:07:38.25 | Dan (Staff) | I apologize for that. |
| 00:07:42.56 | Dan (Staff) | On May 25th, 2022, the Community Development Department received an application for historic review and just doing a food project. There is a historic reservation historic resource evaluation prepared by Mark Holbert, the historic architectural historian. that was submitted last year on May 5th. He has submitted the subsequent memo dated May 2nd, 2022. that was emailed to the commissioners stating the minor changes of the proposed project comply with the existing approved certificate of appropriate. So a little background, here's a structural description of the existing conditions. That's the second floor on the left. and the first floor on the right. The first floor has gone through several remodels. It's been a Rexall drugstore, a lunch counter, restaurants of various types. It's been art gallery and other commercial uses. The Chamber of Commerce is now existing part of the first floor as well. ON THE NORTH PASAD. Here you see on the right, you see the facade along Bridgeway. Um, And on the left, you see the corner facade of the lower level and the upper level. of the corner. |
| 00:09:05.90 | Dan (Staff) | On the left of these photos, you see the existing northern facade along El Portal Street, and on the right, the existing facade along Bridgeway. |
| 00:09:19.32 | Dan (Staff) | Here's the existing flagpole with the United States Postal Service plaque. that leans itself towards some historical significance as the post office was present between 1907 and 1959. |
| 00:09:38.02 | Dan (Staff) | Here's a rendering of the proposed exterior facade. Wow. where the storefront renovations, sidewalk dining, and signage along Hill Portale are portrayed. Um, |
| 00:09:53.59 | Dan (Staff) | some additional new proposed exterior facades on the corner of El Portal and Bridgeway And then on the left or on the right is the facade for Bridgeway. The proposed signage is in there and I'll get to that in a little while as well. Right here. So the plaque signage proposed above entryways and channel lettering for businesses identification is on the left hand. side of the screen. Each one of those plaque signs will go above one or two doors. with the company logo. On the right for the on the screen is the white vinyl lettering that would go on windows or on doors. and proposed address numbers. |
| 00:10:42.24 | Dan (Staff) | This is where the proposed sinus placement is shown on sheet A370, your plan set. It's hard to read here, but each one of those signs is designated on the plan sheet. of which sign it is and where it goes above the above the soffits or on the building. |
| 00:11:02.11 | Dan (Staff) | So some of the recommended findings for conformance with historic design guidelines. Based on the information provided by the applicant, the proposed exterior renovations preserve the building's character defining features with the primary and second score. story of the building and will not alter damage or destroy the exterior historic architectural features on the second floor. Findings for sign application. The sign findings include the restaurant name, Cultivar in metal channel letters, painted semi-gloss, Um, with external under soffit illumination, with light LED lights, The total signage proposed is less than that allowed for the district. The allowable square footage is 50. It comes in at around 44 square feet total per signage on the building. So I'm gonna go through to some of the changes. This was already approved AND I THINK THAT'S A In your staff report, it does talk about July last year meeting between the HPC December meeting with the planning commission and then the joint meeting between the HPC and the planning commission that happened in February. So these were all previously approved Um, And so now what I'm showing you is the changes to the approved project that they're proposing. Um, The applicant proposes renovations to the first floor only. Nothing on the second floor. Um, with upgrades including modifications to entryways and fenestration, and I'll show you those in the next couple slides. The addition of pilasters distributed along the facade and strategic locations and a mandatory and voluntary seismic upgrades to exterior walls and one interior wall. The expansion of the sidewalk to Bridgeway to accommodate proposed outdoor dining, and I'll show you in a couple of slides, how the previously proposed is being proposed now. The installation of planter boxes and metal posts and fixed awnings, which were asked to be brought back in a previous meeting. and then new awnings at the chamber. to remove the old kind of round bubble outs and to make these more similar to the fixed donates that they're proposing above the dining, which I'll get into in a little while. The addition of two new street trees in the area next to you, you can see, I don't know if you can see my pointer, but in this area right here, around the proposed seating. lighting and then signing as part of this program. |
| 00:13:33.00 | Dan (Staff) | Here's a couple different elevations. I've already showed you this one along Bridgeway with the cultivar sign. the new entryway that's been recessed back. Um, This is the new proposed dining. on El Portal at the corner of Riftway. |
| 00:13:54.03 | Dan (Staff) | And then this is changes to the fenestration and entrance. So here's the, here's the, You can hardly see it because it's all white background. But the additional windows that they were showing before right there The three windows are now two windows and the entryway. that they moved to accommodate that. |
| 00:14:17.67 | Dan (Staff) | There's a existing approved |
| 00:14:23.25 | Dan (Staff) | shifting the bifold doors east to compensate for the secondary entrance so these doors were moved away from Bridgeway towards the hotel Sausalito entrance |
| 00:14:39.17 | Dan (Staff) | Here's the proposed outdoor seating and minor use permit that they're now requesting. This is the one where I showed you or I mentioned that if you see here closely, The existing dash line right there is what was previously approved for outdoor dining. Now they're proposing, and I think I'll show you on the next one as well. this to be continued all the way out to and having a new, a new, make up of the curb and gutter out to Bridgeway. So they're proposing The previous approved was right here. and kind of duck down where the tree is, whereas the proposed now comes all the way out |
| 00:15:24.85 | Dan (Staff) | This is more for the planning commission, but I'll run through it real quick. The applicant is asking the planning commission to approve the transfer of a type 47 liquor license. the 12-hour part of El Portal for the Cultivar restaurant, the type 42 license authorized to sell a beer, wine, and distilled spirits for the consumption on the licensed premises. Um, I have left some of the conditions out on purpose for discussion later on. by the planning commission about hours of operation and the type of physical barrier required. So a summary of requests, the historic preservation is asked to weigh in on a certificate of appropriate for the outdoor, for the proposed changes to the facade. The planning commission is asked to weigh in on changes to an approved project. This would be the second time Hopefully the last time because they are under construction with a building permit. A mining use permit amendment for the outdoor dining Encroachment agreement, which would be and a recommendation to the city council to amend the existing encroachment agreement for outdoor dining. and the extension of the sidewalk This time they are asking for approval of the sign program. And they conditionally use permit of course to sell alcohol on site. So with that, staff is recommending that based on the information provided by the applicant's architectural historian, that the Historic Preservation Commission the certificate of appropriateness for the approval So for the proposed exterior changes to 12-hour El Cortal, and 690 Bridgeway. And I'll also go back because the next recommendation is for the Planning Commission. So with that, I'll stand for questions or the applicant is also on the Zoom call. that has a presentation as well. if you'd like to hear from them as well, they're here. |
| 00:17:27.09 | Chair Nichols | THANK YOU, DAN. Do any of the commissioners have any questions for Dan at this time for staff? RELATED TO THE PRESENTATION. May, did your hand up? |
| 00:17:41.67 | Nate Berkowitz | Yeah, my hand is up, but I can't see you, but that's okay. All of these pictures that I've seen are nice daylight pictures. I'd like to know what it looks like after dark. What was there... there when this was initially built in the way of night lighting. If any. |
| 00:18:05.41 | Dan (Staff) | Thank you. Um... Chair Nichols, members of the Historic Planning Commission. I have not seen any nighttime renderings of the lighting to the and how they look. They are proposing gauntlet fixtures Um, and soft LED lighting for the, like I said, for some of the, around the soffit area for the signage. Um, BUT THAT STATEMENT. |
| 00:18:31.70 | Nate Berkowitz | Daylight time. |
| 00:18:32.36 | Dan (Staff) | Bye. |
| 00:18:32.53 | Nate Berkowitz | Thank you. |
| 00:18:32.82 | Dan (Staff) | Thank you. |
| 00:18:32.84 | Nate Berkowitz | I'm looking for nighttime. |
| 00:18:32.90 | Dan (Staff) | Yeah. Yeah, I have not seen any. |
| 00:18:36.84 | Nate Berkowitz | That part of Bridgeway and the East-West Street is really a dark pit after dark. And I really wonder, was it that way when it was built? |
| 00:18:57.69 | Chair Nichols | So Commissioner Berkowitz, if staff is not aware of any pictures, perhaps when we have the applicant before us, we can ask if they know of any pictures. Would that be... All right with you. |
| 00:19:09.07 | Nate Berkowitz | Well, I'd like to see the pictures before I admit to there being good. |
| 00:19:14.28 | Chair Nichols | Right, right. No, no, no. We're just still, we're still in our discussion stage here. So you can certainly ask that of the applicant. |
| 00:19:22.62 | David Newman | Thank you. |
| 00:19:23.22 | Chair Nichols | Do you have any other questions? |
| 00:19:30.18 | Chair Nichols | Vice Chair Newman. |
| 00:19:32.91 | David Newman | I think there was a comment in the the material that I reviewed. that the applicant is asking to Um, Relight the area at the top of the building. which which has been |
| 00:19:51.10 | Chair Nichols | Oh. |
| 00:19:54.66 | David Newman | historically been there but has not been there recently and I think there are references that the Chamber of Commerce asks specifically that that lighting be returned to make more of downtown Sausalito attractive after dark. |
| 00:20:11.30 | Unknown | Right. |
| 00:20:11.50 | David Newman | I don't think that responds directly to Commissioner Berkowitz question about how it was originally, that. I think there is something in that. COMMENTARY THAT WOULD BE reference the idea of bringing attention to the ferry landing and this area next to our park and so forth. And I think that's a good idea, frankly. |
| 00:20:38.47 | Chair Nichols | Well, I think let's If we could stick with questions at this point, I have the same point that I'd like to talk about when we get the applicant with us. Do you have any more questions of staff on the report? And then we can call the applicant up and see if we can get these questions answered. If that's okay. |
| 00:20:58.48 | David Newman | No, I don't. I think it was answered in the sense that I couldn't understand what they were talking about, Window. being brought into the composition and I think that the interim director address that issue. So thank you. |
| 00:21:16.56 | Chair Nichols | THANK YOU. AT THIS TIME, DAN, WOULD YOU LIKE TO INVITE THE APPLICANT UP? generally we have time allocated for that applicant and their team to give a presentation if they want to add anything. I think in this instance, what we're hearing, it might be helpful if they're available for some specific questions. And I see Mr. Rex here. Hi, Michael. Is he been able to be? He's on video. Can we unmute him and see if you'd like to add anything? |
| 00:21:59.72 | Michael Rex | I'm on mute. |
| 00:22:01.21 | Chair Nichols | We can hear you now. I think you can. |
| 00:22:02.80 | Michael Rex | Oh, you can. |
| 00:22:03.61 | Chair Nichols | Yeah, I think you've got it. |
| 00:22:05.11 | Michael Rex | Oh, okay, great. Hi, thanks. That's better. Good evening. I'm Michael Rex, the project architect and with us tonight, as a building owner, Mr. Pete Petrie. and the new restaurant owner and operator, Mr. Jody Harris, and they're available for questions as well. Um, I first wanna thank you for holding this joint hearing on short notice. Short notice was required because we're actually under construction. We've broken ground. And we need to cover some, some changes that have occurred. And This is our third iteration. The first one, the one that Dan showed you. In fact, I want to thank Dan. He's coming in at a really the last moment and did a fantastic job with the staff report. Impressive, frankly, I understood he wrote it on the weekend to get this in front of you in time. Thank you, Dan. Big thank you. But the first image he showed you was what you originally approved, which was to reopen Cafe Tutti and reopen an art gallery. The lease negotiations fell through on the art gallery Jody Harris signed a lease for the whole space. And we came back to you with changes that he requested. And I'm gonna show you those. Right now, let me share screen with you. I'm going to Let's see if I could put this. Yeah, can you see my screen? |
| 00:23:48.80 | Chair Nichols | Not yet, but it takes a little bit sometimes. |
| 00:23:49.07 | Michael Rex | Okay. Not yet. Hmm. That's odd. Let me go back. |
| 00:23:53.34 | Chair Nichols | Yes. |
| 00:23:57.09 | Michael Rex | Let me try once more. Oh, I didn't press the right button. Here we go. Now you can see it, right? |
| 00:24:03.55 | Unknown | Yep, it's loading. |
| 00:24:04.45 | Michael Rex | Okay. |
| 00:24:05.24 | Unknown | Great. |
| 00:24:06.00 | Michael Rex | Um, the The one above is what you approved last January or when we submitted last January. And this was after The lease was signed with Cultivar, the new restaurant where Jody Harris wants to expand into the art gallery space. And at the time, he was working on the interior design and it wasn't, It wasn't fully developed. But what it showed, and maybe I can annotate here. Let's see. I've got an annotation. Here we go. Just a second. Where is it? Ah. Well, I don't see where I can annotate. Curse or can you? |
| 00:24:56.67 | Dan (Staff) | Yeah, we can, or you can't. Yeah, yeah. |
| 00:24:57.60 | Michael Rex | Oh, you can. Bye. The entry to Cafe Tutti remained and we had two new bifold doors that replaced the previous windows. And then the city had asked us to consider extending the sidewalk all the way to Bridgeway. And we had shown that in the previous plan. This is what you approved last time. It showed the bifold doors instead of windows. It showed the extended sidewalk all the way to the bridgeway, but the commission wanted input from a public works and fire department, even though the, it was suggested by the city staff that we consider this, you want a technical input on Will this work and will access to Alpertel still be workable, et cetera? And so we've done that since this last hearing. What we've also done is added seating in this wider area to show you how it'd be used. But this show, the former art gallery space and Cafe Tutti as it existed at the time, Now we have an interior plan from Cultivar And they would like to move the entry where Cafe Tutti currently is to further, closer to Bridgeway. and rework the outdoor dining area that you previously approved. So now, This is the current layout. And you can see the recess door on Alpertel has moved over two bays. We've grouped all the biford doors to the east of that entry. And then we added a window. So the windows on the corner wrap all the way around now. at the corner, which strengthens that corner appearance where we have a high ceiling. We're taking out the mezzanine inside so the windows can go all the way up like they used to when it was erectile drugs. We didn't wanna continue the same design all the way down. We thought maybe breaking it up a little bit. with awnings over, outdoor dining to the east. And as it goes towards Bridgeway, we thought it should be more open and airy with umbrellas and round tables instead. We also added two street trees. What we want to do is take what you see on Bridgeway and wrap it around the corner. Now let me show you what that will look like. Yeah, okay. Let's go to the imagery here. And that's page 12. Yeah. Okay. Um, So now you can see, we show this corner shot of our CAD model. So you could better see how this change really enhances this corner experience by wrapping the trees around and wrapping the windows around and then grouping all the bifolds further down L per tau Among the changes that we're now requesting, we would like to replace the pilasters that frame the entry to the hotel. And I'll just quickly show you that. Um, Yeah, here you go. Here you can see there's these It kind of painted pilasters. They're very skinny. They're not original. And, uh mark holbert our historic preservation architect concluded he never considered them to be part of the defining historic elements we should preserve. We find if what's on the image below, you can see when we remove them and continue the pilasters all the way down, It adds continuity. In fact, now the entire a ground floor is a rhythm of plasters like the original building from 1915. We also got rid of these two shear walls. We had proposed a new concrete shear wall right here. Do you see my cursor? |
| 00:29:15.59 | Unknown | Yes. |
| 00:29:16.16 | Michael Rex | Yes, and one right here. We went back to the structural engineer and We determined with this help that we can move those shear walls more into the interior of the space and allow a fully glazed storefront. And it also allows a perfect rhythm of the pilasters. So we think this is a significant improvement. Also, Jody Harris felt that because the outdoor dining is in the shade most of the time, shadowed by the building, and our cool weather in Sauceto that's so frequent that without heaters out there, the space would not be well utilized and enjoyed by his diner and guests. Instead of awnings, we originally asked for retractable awnings. Then we got approved with fixed awnings that are made of fabric. but very hard to put heaters out. So we're now showing a metal lattice body that's fixed and they're supported on columns that were cast iron I'll show you those here. I'm going to go back to the drawing. And go to the next page. um, You can see kind of looking down and a little closer, The awning is metal lattice of flat bars. The heaters will be simple rectangles and painted black. There's trusses between every pilaster that supports the awning. And here you can see the decorative iron columns on which they sit. We kept it all very light and airy. We propose a vine growing up on the face of the pilasters that could stretch across onto the trusses to give it a real garden feeling. We're still enclosing the dining with the planners. that are custom made and freestanding Now, they're not built in. The other thing, I'm in terms of on the corner. We thought we would use a section of the, cast iron columns for stanchions and either a rope, swag or chain because we understand that ABC, the Alcohol Control Board, is loosening up its regulations to enclose areas where alcohol served outside along public ways. And so should that come to fruition, we didn't want something permanent. The historic preservation commission at your last hearing asked for details on the guardrail and the planters, planter boxes. Now we have no guardrail. We just had the planter boxes and the swag and the planters, let me find those for you. here. They'd be concrete, they'll have a warm color tone. They're a party or set here. Let me just pull them up. Yeah, here you can see it. We went with a square planter that has a base and a capital, give it somewhat a traditional feeling. It has a warm color tone to kind of blend in with the building and look like they belong there. And, Here you see the columns there. We actually found stock cast iron columns that are perfect for what we're doing. The beauty of the lattice is not only can we put heaters there, but they're more permanent than awnings. Awnings can last about three maximum, five years, and then they start looking tattered. That will not be the case with the metal. Let me show you the lighting. |
| 00:33:11.99 | Kristina Feller | Michael, I'm sorry to interrupt you. Can you zoom in? That planner is smaller than a postage stamp. |
| 00:33:16.83 | Michael Rex | Thank you. |
| 00:33:16.97 | Chair Nichols | Oh. |
| 00:33:17.34 | Michael Rex | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 00:33:17.47 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 00:33:17.54 | Chair Nichols | I was going to ask that I appreciate all the details some of what |
| 00:33:17.91 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 00:33:18.03 | Michael Rex | Yeah. |
| 00:33:18.32 | Kristina Feller | Yeah. |
| 00:33:18.38 | Michael Rex | Thank you. |
| 00:33:24.73 | Chair Nichols | we're hearing is certainly for your purview. So when I come back with my committee, I'm gonna ask that these particular items that are under the certificate of appropriateness, we zoom in more because I'm having a hard time seeing the detail here. |
| 00:33:39.66 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 00:33:39.83 | Michael Rex | Thank you. |
| 00:33:39.85 | Chair Nichols | See you. |
| 00:33:39.87 | Michael Rex | Can you see it better now? |
| 00:33:40.51 | Chair Nichols | Bye. |
| 00:33:42.30 | Kristina Feller | Yes, thank you, Chair Nichols. Thank you. Yeah, sure. |
| 00:33:43.09 | Michael Rex | Yeah. Yeah, sure. |
| 00:33:45.57 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 00:33:45.59 | Michael Rex | Thank you. I wanted to switch to lighting. Let me go there. I think I'll go back to the, CAD model for a second. I'll hang on. Yeah. Here we go. Okay. We, the, You asked, Chair Booker, when she asked about existing lighting, the only exterior lighting right now is, on the farmer art gallery, there's little square lanterns between all the windows Those are coming off. That's the only lighting that I know of right now. other than the light up on the parapet. There's a whole series of little lights that were lit for many years and for some reason, I guess they needed maintenance and returned off. we do wish to repair and turn them back on. We agree with the chamber that it'd be nice to have more lighting downtown, but we're also adding new lighting on the building. All the entries we're showing a decorative letter and I'll show you in a minute in detail. But what you'll see is that at every entry, here you can see a little better picture over here, on each pilaster framing each entry will be a wall sconce and That includes down at what's large to see here. Maybe I can go to the elevation. Yeah, here, I mean, I got it large, this is so small. Yeah, I know. Oh. No. Bye. I'm not too far. Yeah. Here you can see how they'll be on the, on the side of every entry, there's an entry to the hotel. It should really look nice. The signage, you also asked to see that, well, let me finish lighting. The lighting will also be, there'll be some little spots on the trusses of the metal awning. that will have an egg crate and a little tiny pin light of directed light at each table. to light the outdoor dining area where there's a four tables at the, Over the umbrellas are there'll be a battery lamp on the table. to light signage for the sign program We're going with uniform siding for the whole building, not just for the restaurant, but for the hotel, and for the a chamber store. And we're proposing Um, THAT Um, The signage, the black metal letters surface applied in the frieze of the existing cornice. So there's a continuity there. The addresses will be for each use will be also black letters on the pilasters adjacent to the entry. And then to light the signage, I have to go to this back to lighting for a second. Um, Here you see the lettering of, they're seven and a half inches high and they have serifs. The visitor center, the chamber will have white letters on the windows without Saras. Over the two entries to Cultivar will be their logo that'll be suspended. It's a copper panel. with a white circle and black cutout metal. which is their logo and it'll suspend from the corners over each entry. And then the lighting for those, let me go there. Thank you. I'm going the wrong way. Let's go back. Yeah. Okay. Um, Here's the lamps, is that big enough to see? |
| 00:38:00.76 | Chair Nichols | No, really. |
| 00:38:00.97 | Michael Rex | Bye. Now let's enlarge. |
| 00:38:03.18 | Chair Nichols | THE FIRST |
| 00:38:04.75 | Michael Rex | Yeah, it's hard to know what it is you're looking at. On my screen, it's pretty big. Wait a minute, it went too far. There it is. Yeah, it's gonna be very, very dark broads, almost black. And I think it's gonna be a very, very dark broads, almost black. and seated glass. All the lighting will be on dimmer, so we control its brightness. And particularly these and then they're on a timer that will automatically go off late at night. that can be set on a regular basis as needed. And then for the signs, we're going to put a little channel in the soffit right above each cornice sign. This is the channel here. It's a little aluminum channel. It's only about an inch and a half square. and it's going to be pointed towards the sign. It'll have a frosted lands to, give it a soft glow. And then inside that little channel will be a one inch strip of these LEDs So the lighting will be all down and directed, either directed at the building or directed down on the table. with the exception of those wall mounted sconces on each side of the entry. It's a minimum amount of lighting, but it should really enhance the nighttime appearance, okay? Um, |
| 00:39:42.12 | Dan (Staff) | Michael, you went on mute. |
| 00:39:43.86 | Kristina Feller | bike ball. |
| 00:39:47.30 | Michael Rex | mirror. Can you hear me again? |
| 00:39:49.63 | Kristina Feller | Yep, there you go. |
| 00:39:50.29 | Michael Rex | And now that happened. |
| 00:39:50.70 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:39:50.76 | Chair Nichols | Thank you. |
| 00:39:51.76 | Michael Rex | I'm gonna shift now to talk a little bit about the sidewalk. Let me go. |
| 00:39:57.31 | Chair Nichols | MICHAEL, THAT'S NOT REALLY THE PURVIEW OF THE |
| 00:39:58.27 | Michael Rex | YEAH. |
| 00:40:02.27 | Chair Nichols | A team saying So if Chair Beller concurs so that we can get our portion done and they can move on to their regular agenda, If you wouldn't mind saving that part for them when you get into more specific design review. Is that okay with you, Chair Feller? |
| 00:40:19.69 | Kristina Feller | ABSOLUTELY. THANK YOU, CHAIR NICHOLS. I CONCUR. |
| 00:40:22.32 | Chair Nichols | Okay. So Michael, if you wouldn't mind then, um, I will check with our commissioners and see if we've got any questions of you while we have you on the specifics of the modifications to the previous plan related to your certificate of appropriateness. |
| 00:40:39.94 | Michael Rex | Sure. |
| 00:40:40.64 | Chair Nichols | Okay, thanks. So Nate, do you have any questions about what has been pointed out here? Or would you like any more detail about what we're considering? These are just the changes that we have in our staff report. |
| 00:40:41.83 | Michael Rex | Mm-hmm. |
| 00:40:55.82 | Chair Nichols | and the ones that uh, are have been pointed out by the um applicant's uh architect specifically the signage change of the window on the lower level. and change of the awnings and Michael, can you help me? |
| 00:41:18.87 | Michael Rex | What was that Vicki? |
| 00:41:20.47 | Chair Nichols | There's a summary of the things that you're asking about that's related to the building. |
| 00:41:24.44 | Michael Rex | Yeah, it's shifting the entry door on El Fertel, adding that second window where we had bifold doors before, removing the existing two pilasters that framed the Sausalito Hotel entry. And then the change to metal awnings from canvas. And then they wanted to see guardrail and planners. There are no more guardrails. And we're showing now what the planners look like. And then of course there's signage and lighting, although they specifically asked to see the guardrail details because we didn't have much when they saw this last. |
| 00:42:02.39 | Chair Nichols | Thank you. So, so for the commissioners, that's really what we will be |
| 00:42:02.56 | Michael Rex | Thank you. |
| 00:42:06.81 | Chair Nichols | So if we have any comments on that, We have the applicant here and I invite you to express your questions and we'll see if we can get that information to make a determination. You want to go, Nate? |
| 00:42:22.39 | Nate Berkowitz | Thank you. Well, I find this apron that sits in the middle of the building destroying any historical feeling whatsoever. And on top of that, it lacks utility because when it rains, or when the fog comes in, It's the water comes down. So I don't know. I really don't I can't approve of this apron approach rather than a awning approach, which I could imagine was done a hundred and some odd years ago. Um, and light on the dining table. |
| 00:43:22.51 | Chair Nichols | Then you freeze. |
| 00:43:27.93 | Kristina Feller | I think he's lost his reception. |
| 00:43:31.78 | Chair Nichols | Okay. |
| 00:43:37.29 | Chair Nichols | Nate, can you hear us? He looks like he's frozen. |
| 00:43:48.80 | Chair Nichols | So that we don't delay, we'll come back to Commissioner Berkowitz and I would invite Vice Chair Newman. to express any comments you may have while we have the applicant here with us. David, do you want to go? |
| 00:44:05.53 | David Newman | Uh, Not really, I think that we already moved previously to accept the fact that the lower level of this building had been modified significantly over time and Sorry about that. and that the modifications that are being proposed now Um, are more about the Planning Commission's jurisdiction than ours. I don't think that the building as a historic resource is going to be detrimentally impacted by the current proposal in terms of the window shift and the door shift and so forth. We've already heard from Mr. Holbert previously about his understanding of the modifications that have been made to the building previously, including the entry to the hotel, et cetera. and I think the architectural changes that are made are more the currently proposed, I should say, are more about what the planning commission thinks than what we do as an HBC. I think that. um, We have... already acted on that. I don't think anything that's being proposed right now significantly impacts the discussion we had previously or the decision we made previously, which was to accept the COA. |
| 00:45:39.87 | Chair Nichols | Okay, thank you. We have Nate back. It looks like Nate, you were right in the middle. Somebody cut me off. |
| 00:45:44.04 | Nate Berkowitz | Somebody cut me off. |
| 00:45:45.24 | David Newman | Thank you. |
| 00:45:45.64 | Chair Nichols | No, no, no, I don't know. Something happened. I don't think anybody cut you off deliberately. Do you want to continue? |
| 00:45:46.17 | Nate Berkowitz | I don't know. |
| 00:45:52.22 | Chair Nichols | Well, Do you have any other questions? |
| 00:45:54.44 | Nate Berkowitz | TO BE ABLE TO BE ABLE TO Thank you. To me, this isn't a historical approach to what we're supposedly doing. And I appreciate the work that's gone into it And if we don't, if you had to judge it on a contemporary base on a contemporary basis than perhaps it would have, I would have a different attitude towards it. But I would like to see the building look like the way it was built. and I'm less concerned about some of the size of the glass and But I find that what I call an apron on the front, on the El Portal side, to be very, very, very, very, Very. Not to my liking. Let me leave it like that. nor do I feel it has any utility. If I were the... Thank you. I wouldn't want to sit out there on a cool night with the fog coming in. And I don't think this has been taken into consideration. but that's not our purview right now ours is to look at it historically I don't think it's a a simple uh change in the uh historical appearance of the building. Changing the cup today the entrance and extra and another entrance that doesn't bother me at all. because it could have been done at any time. I do have often wondered before I had any opportunity to think about this as a |
| 00:47:55.04 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:47:55.24 | Nate Berkowitz | Thank you. personal matter, why they put the tower on the corner and then made a big open space. And I'd like to ask the question, when the building was built, Where's that corner that open? Does anyone know? |
| 00:48:12.15 | Chair Nichols | So I think we're addressing the architect now. I mean, that would be appropriate for you to ask Mr. Rex if he has any information on that. Michael, can you help? |
| 00:48:22.30 | Michael Rex | Yes, the original building had that corner entry and it was closed up by Gene Hiller for his clothing store. I think gosh, back in the seventies. And Dan, You had a picture in the packet that showed the original Rexall drugs. Maybe you could pull that up because that shows that corner entry. We're trying to restore what was originally there. |
| 00:48:50.64 | Nate Berkowitz | Was that an entrance? |
| 00:48:52.64 | Michael Rex | It was, yes. |
| 00:48:54.16 | Nate Berkowitz | Oh, it was the entrance then. |
| 00:48:56.45 | Michael Rex | It was, yeah, there's the corner now all closed up. That's where- |
| 00:49:00.52 | Nate Berkowitz | I know what that looks like, yes. |
| 00:49:02.36 | Michael Rex | Okay, and Dan had a picture of the Rexall drugs, It... |
| 00:49:09.14 | Dan (Staff) | I think that was in the, I think that was in the packet, not the slideshow. Oh, it says it's Pat. |
| 00:49:13.58 | Chair Nichols | Thank you. |
| 00:49:13.59 | Michael Rex | Thank you. |
| 00:49:13.61 | Chair Nichols | Thank you. |
| 00:49:13.66 | Michael Rex | Oh, it says a packet. |
| 00:49:14.64 | Chair Nichols | All right. |
| 00:49:14.66 | Dan (Staff) | Okay. Thank you. |
| 00:49:15.06 | Chair Nichols | Thank you. |
| 00:49:15.08 | Michael Rex | you |
| 00:49:15.10 | Chair Nichols | a screenshot of a film that was made in Sausalito at that exact corner. |
| 00:49:15.13 | Dan (Staff) | Sorry. |
| 00:49:15.50 | Michael Rex | Thank you. |
| 00:49:15.53 | Dan (Staff) | Thank you. |
| 00:49:15.57 | Michael Rex | Thank you. |
| 00:49:15.65 | Dan (Staff) | Thank you. |
| 00:49:15.67 | Michael Rex | Thank you. |
| 00:49:19.84 | Chair Nichols | Yeah, 1949. |
| 00:49:19.97 | Michael Rex | Yeah. If you could go to your packet, I saw it in there. And it shows that corner entry. |
| 00:49:31.40 | Dan (Staff) | That's what I'm trying to do right now. |
| 00:49:32.95 | Michael Rex | Oh, thanks, Dan. It was an image cut from a movie apparently. We're lucky we have it. |
| 00:49:42.79 | Chair Nichols | It's a great B movie, but it's a great shot of Sausalito. |
| 00:49:48.36 | Michael Rex | Have you seen it, Vin? |
| 00:49:48.83 | Chair Nichols | Have you seen it, Vicki? I have, I have. |
| 00:49:50.20 | Michael Rex | Oh yeah, that'd be fine. |
| 00:49:51.53 | Chair Nichols | Yeah, I think you can Google it. I forget what it's called. We can find out for you. . |
| 00:49:57.74 | Michael Rex | that ours look like they're from the 40s. |
| 00:49:57.76 | Chair Nichols | Thank you. Yeah, it's about 40. seven or 49, I believe. |
| 00:50:02.55 | Michael Rex | up. |
| 00:50:03.73 | Dan (Staff) | Okay, let me show you my screen, I found it. Thank you. |
| 00:50:08.47 | Kristina Feller | wasn't this already approved though that it hasn't changed from the last approval? |
| 00:50:14.78 | Chair Nichols | Right. I'm just trying to allow the commission time to get their questions out here and then we'll move on. |
| 00:50:29.50 | Dan (Staff) | Okay, hold on. Trying to find out which, What it's connected to, I don't see, because I don't have all windows open. |
| 00:50:41.56 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:50:42.31 | Dan (Staff) | I got it. I got it. |
| 00:50:42.36 | Unknown | I got |
| 00:50:44.52 | Dan (Staff) | There it is. |
| 00:50:45.58 | Unknown | . |
| 00:50:45.66 | Dan (Staff) | Yeah. |
| 00:50:45.70 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 00:50:45.75 | Dan (Staff) | Yeah. |
| 00:50:45.77 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:50:45.82 | Dan (Staff) | Bye. I had to scroll down. |
| 00:50:47.79 | Michael Rex | It's a little hard to see. Yeah, you can see it's all glass. It's a wraparound facade. and the doors are right behind a little column there. It's a little hard to see. What is that? |
| 00:51:00.65 | Nate Berkowitz | What is that hanging down from the, Up from the second floor. |
| 00:51:06.22 | Michael Rex | That's Rexall sign. |
| 00:51:08.99 | Nate Berkowitz | You were the Rex All Sides. |
| 00:51:09.05 | Michael Rex | Sean. on the corner, right. And the signage for the rest of it's on the freeze, like we're proposing, although we're getting it to fit in the freeze. It's not as big. |
| 00:51:22.76 | Chair Nichols | So commissioner Brukowitz, any other questions? |
| 00:51:26.06 | Nate Berkowitz | No, but my lighting questions and would like to see what it looks like in the dark Very important. |
| 00:51:33.37 | Chair Nichols | Okay. It sounds like there were no photographs of that available. Is that correct? |
| 00:51:39.07 | Nate Berkowitz | It's hard to take pictures at night. |
| 00:51:45.28 | Michael Rex | Did you want to see what it looks like now at night or what it would be? |
| 00:51:49.25 | Nate Berkowitz | I know what it looks like now at NYSER |
| 00:51:52.54 | Michael Rex | Paul. Okay. |
| 00:51:53.82 | Nate Berkowitz | Bye. |
| 00:51:53.84 | Chair Nichols | I think that some of this purview of their specific questions about the sconces that have been proposed or the power of the LED lighting or where it will be lit would be a good time to ask about that specifically or how it's going to light the signs. And then I think we can still stay under our purview here. |
| 00:52:18.63 | Nate Berkowitz | The lighting has to be in such a fashion that it's consistent with Bridgeway and the fact that we have a dark park next on the north side of the building. Thank you. I would like to see light. I would like to see action. I would like to see this lit up till like in the old days to two o'clock in the morning. But I'm afraid from the information that I got, that this was another restaurant that's gonna close anywhere between eight to 10 o'clock at night. And We are then losing what I would like to see happen is Bridgeway become a lit, a thoroughfare and a requirement for the that we have some. economic activity. that and later later in the evening. Now that I realize this is not a |
| 00:53:31.53 | Chair Nichols | It is not. |
| 00:53:31.76 | Nate Berkowitz | It is not. |
| 00:53:33.40 | Chair Nichols | It is not. |
| 00:53:33.47 | Nate Berkowitz | It is not, but I, I will appreciate that, but I could stand up in the planning commission section and ask the same question. |
| 00:53:43.27 | Chair Nichols | Absolutely. |
| 00:53:44.56 | Nate Berkowitz | BUT I DON'T INTEND TO. |
| 00:53:46.06 | Chair Nichols | Okay, well, I think they might have heard you. |
| 00:53:48.78 | Nate Berkowitz | I think so. |
| 00:53:50.11 | Chair Nichols | All right. Okay, do you have any other questions? Good comments. |
| 00:53:56.84 | Nate Berkowitz | Not, I do, but I reserve them. |
| 00:54:01.38 | Chair Nichols | Okay. |
| 00:54:01.41 | Nate Berkowitz | Okay. |
| 00:54:02.46 | Chair Nichols | Well, so that I'm aware of the planning commission having other projects after us, I'm going to take- |
| 00:54:08.37 | Nate Berkowitz | Thank you. |
| 00:54:08.38 | Nate Berkowitz | I have two basic issues and that's light. And it's the fact that putting this apron on the front, on the north side of the building, I think is totally inappropriate for a historical meeting. If we don't want a historical appreciation of the architecture, I think seen what, I think it's important that that not look like a modern design, |
| 00:54:09.13 | Nate Berkowitz | Hey. |
| 00:54:21.85 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:54:21.90 | Robert Maxwell | it. |
| 00:54:40.41 | Nate Berkowitz | a modern solution to a problem. |
| 00:54:47.69 | Chair Nichols | Okay, anything else? |
| 00:54:49.47 | Nate Berkowitz | I think that is the two major concerns that I have about the project. |
| 00:54:55.80 | Chair Nichols | THANK YOU. Okay, shifting gears a little bit, I'd like to go with Mr. Rex and just ask a few questions here. and they're very, because I think we had a pretty thorough presentation, which I appreciated. just like to summarize it looks like what we're seeing here uh Mr. Rex is we're adding an additional window to that front facade if we could put that up again I'm just trying to summarize to make sure we're getting this. that we are not being provided images with the planters because you're assuming that there's going to be a relaxation by the ABC not having this as a food requirement. So your solution is to put you know, some kind of barrier like a rope or something that's semi-permanent. Um, I'm understanding that the plaques are going to be going under the new proposed door and the door at the front of Bridgeway. pop out signs with brass, not brass, I think you said bronze. metal and other materials. That's where those will go for signage. And then you've given us the fonts and the uh, for the other buildings and all that. I want to just talk about, number one, let me ask a question. In all these renderings, we're seeing this dark brownish color for the whole building. We haven't talked about the repaint of that, but I'm going to make an assumption that I'd like to clarify that that will be the new color. for this whole building, is that correct? |
| 00:56:36.33 | Michael Rex | We're not proposing to repaint the building. We're proposing to keep the color scheme that's there. Our models, you know, those are the colors that we were able to select from in the computer. |
| 00:56:49.59 | Unknown | Okay. |
| 00:56:49.83 | Michael Rex | The model shows it darker than it actually is. |
| 00:56:49.84 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 00:56:50.05 | Chair Nichols | So, |
| 00:56:54.26 | Michael Rex | we're not gonna paint it a different color. |
| 00:56:57.56 | Chair Nichols | Okay. I'm not asking. |
| 00:56:57.93 | Michael Rex | We're not asking for that. |
| 00:56:59.33 | Chair Nichols | Just for the record, I'd like to clarify that, but there's no new color that you're proposing or asking us to consider, because this is a very large and prominent building on that corner, so I think we're clear on that. I think that, I would have liked to have seen a front view of the, like an elevation of what these new iron columns look like. I like the awnings. I think that's attractive. This is the lower floor. that has been determined has lost its historical significance, but it does connect with the upper levels. But that is not something that is going to hold me up from being able to work on my findings here. I would like to actually talk a little bit about the lighting. I understand the concept and I big memories of this facade being lit but I don't know if it's been provoked by the staff report that I think I'm remembering it or I actually did. It's been some time. So I'm wondering the lighting that's up there now, is this proposed to be attached? We have an information in our, packet that this roof is a metal skirt roof. Is this attached to the roofing? Is it attached to the plaster? This is the original structure upstairs, so I'm going to be a little bit more diligent about anything attached to that structure. And if it's something that does not cause any permanent farm life, degradation of the original plaster, et cetera, I'm sure you'd consider this. I'd like to just get it on the record. If you could just tell me what your thoughts are. |
| 00:58:37.00 | Michael Rex | Yeah, the existing lighting, for the building is of on the top of the parapet. And it's a series of little lights, little brown lights that run along the entire length of the building. And they're actually mounted on top of the parapet so you can see them. And they're there. If you go out there, you'll see them. they just haven't been lit for years. |
| 00:59:02.28 | Chair Nichols | No, that's what I mean. I just didn't, I'm trying to refresh myself. And I wondered since you've been up exploring there, if you can give us some insurance that whatever is going to be re-installed there or replaced. I understand your request and desire to light the building. I think it's a beautiful facade. and important to emphasize that detail, which I think is lovely. But I just would want to, you know, sort of stipulate that whatever is done and not me relighting it have no. um, damage to either to any. that it any way that it's a fix to the building does not do any permanent damage. I guess I'll say it like that. |
| 00:59:45.14 | Michael Rex | Actually, our whole intent is to repair what's there, not change it, just repair it so they could be turned back on. |
| 00:59:52.99 | Chair Nichols | Okay, I'm still not hearing how they're attached or anything. So I think we're kind of talking. |
| 00:59:56.01 | Michael Rex | Amen. That's right. Thank you. I don't quite know how it's attached. I haven't been up on the parapet, but I have looked up to the building |
| 00:59:58.56 | Chair Nichols | Oh. |
| 01:00:03.43 | Michael Rex | you can see all the lights are kind of polka dot along the length of the parapet They're kind of like these little cafe lights, little round lights. And I don't know how they're attached, but, Our intention is to simply restore what's there so they could be turned on. They could be on a dimmer and they could be left on after the restaurant closes. So can all the lanterns that are at all the entries. And there's even one at the far south end on Bridgeway. And those could remain on until really late at night as well. of I think the city requires that all street trees have electrical power so they can have lights in them uh, at the city's, uh, preference, either just at Christmas time or, you know, if those little lights in the trees want to be on all the time, they can be as well. but we will be providing power to those two new street trees consistent with the downtown program. |
| 01:01:05.60 | Chair Nichols | Okay. And I think that, you know, what EDAC says versus what we're saying in a historic district is sometimes not exactly the same thing, but I understand that the motivation to make this a more lively and |
| 01:01:15.68 | Unknown | Thanks. |
| 01:01:15.74 | Michael Rex | Don't. |
| 01:01:16.10 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:01:16.11 | Michael Rex | Thank you. |
| 01:01:16.13 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:01:21.13 | Michael Rex | Sure, I didn't know. So I hadn't mentioned it, but in each recess entry, there's a downline. So those entry doors will be illuminated and there'll be a pool of light at the base of all the entries. |
| 01:01:35.22 | Chair Nichols | Okay, so I'm trying to stick to, you know, what I can talk about in terms of historical character and what's in the district. So related to the lighting, I'd just like to make two recommendations that go on the record. The Planning Commission is hearing this, that whatever method the restoration is for this new lighting or this relighting have no permanent effect on the original structure, which is what I'm calling out as the the scalloped roof on the facade. And then also we've had this question before in the historic district that I know this sometimes is at odds with, you know, how we want to have a area really robust and really lit up. Um, we have had conversations at planning commission and at HLB previously about the lighting, um, not being so glaring IN THE DISTRICT, THAT'S INAPPORRIATE. I THINK YOU'VE TAKEN STEPS TO NOT DO THAT, BUT I'D JUST LIKE TO MAKE THAT COMMENT. that we don't want a historic district lit up like the blazes. It's come up before. So I'm comfortable with what you've displayed. I will say that as we continue to have these meetings, it's very difficult to see this detail on a computer. I know we can't meet in public. I know we used to get material boards, et cetera, et cetera. And I know we can't do that, but if there's can be any much, anything that can be done to enlarge these things we're looking at would be helpful. And I'm using the staff recommendations for findings that were in the staff report with the comments I've just made. I am able to make all the findings that are required of our board to certify your this project for appropriateness. So I will entertain a motion. from the other commissioners. There is one on the floor, we get one on the floor and then we can turn this over to the planning commission. |
| 01:03:41.56 | David Newman | Yes, I move we accept the staff recommendations. |
| 01:03:45.49 | Chair Nichols | THANK YOU, DAVID. |
| 01:03:46.24 | David Newman | Thank you. |
| 01:03:47.05 | Chair Nichols | Is there a second? |
| 01:03:54.99 | Chair Nichols | I'm going to go ahead and second this. Dan, would you please pull the wall for us? I just want to qualify, I think because there's three people, this has to be unanimous. Is that correct? maybe our city attorney can opine. |
| 01:04:11.09 | Mary Wagner | No, no, a majority of the quorum is sufficient to pass this. |
| 01:04:16.68 | Chair Nichols | Okay, we've had different advice before, but I'll go with this on this particular AND THANK YOU. |
| 01:04:27.66 | Chair Nichols | Again, could you call the roll please? Oh, you're muted, I guess. |
| 01:04:34.03 | Dan (Staff) | Sorry, I'm muted. Yes. Commissioner Berkowitz? |
| 01:04:37.97 | Nate Berkowitz | Thank you. |
| 01:04:41.18 | Nate Berkowitz | I would like to... I abstain, but I can't. I won't. I will concur with whatever the majority desires. |
| 01:04:52.86 | Chair Nichols | Just to clarify, is that a yes vote on the motion on the table? |
| 01:04:57.41 | Nate Berkowitz | I said, |
| 01:04:57.97 | Dan (Staff) | Yes. |
| 01:04:58.29 | Nate Berkowitz | Thank you. |
| 01:04:58.54 | Chair Nichols | Okay, thank you, Nate. |
| 01:05:01.21 | Dan (Staff) | Commissioner Warner? Perhaps, sir. Vice Chair Newman. Yes. Joe Nichols. |
| 01:05:09.41 | Chair Nichols | Yes, and thank everybody for all the extra work on this. Thanks to the planning commission for helping us meet together and move this along. |
| 01:05:10.59 | Dan (Staff) | Thank you. |
| 01:05:17.71 | Chair Nichols | I think this is an attractive project and I'm hoping that it's, it is very successful down in the historic district for a number of reasons. So thank you all very much and congratulations. So with that, we don't, since this is a special meeting, I don't believe that the HPC has any announcements or anything. So I would just suggest that we adjourn at 747. |
| 01:05:30.64 | Robert Maxwell | Thank you. |
| 01:05:45.34 | Chair Nichols | Apologies, Chair Fella, we're a little late on the timeframe, but I think we got done what we needed to get done. |
| 01:05:51.89 | Kristina Feller | Hold on Chair Nichols. Because item 4B still falls under the special joint meeting, we can't adjourn the special meeting yet. We are still in the special meeting technically, |
| 01:06:01.49 | Chair Nichols | Oh, okay. |
| 01:06:05.98 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 01:06:06.01 | Chair Nichols | Okay. |
| 01:06:06.30 | Kristina Feller | So if you, if we've closed out item 4A, let's move into item 4B. and that is really for the action of the planning commission based on the actions in 4a of the historic preservation commission so thank you very much for for that and obviously you're you're welcome to stay on and and comment as as you would like um The only item I'll add is that we haven't taken any public comment yet on this item. |
| 01:06:41.45 | Chair Nichols | Oh my gosh, yes, you're right. |
| 01:06:43.34 | Kristina Feller | So let's pick that up in item 4B because there might be some comments in 4B anyway from the commission that we would. request our our colleagues from the HPC to weigh in on |
| 01:06:55.93 | Mary Wagner | And perhaps actually I would recommend that we present the opportunity for public comment and for a |
| 01:06:56.42 | Kristina Feller | The chairman. |
| 01:07:02.93 | Mary Wagner | If there are substantial public comments, you know, then the, Uh, Historic Resources Commission can consider whether or not they would like to rehold their boat. |
| 01:07:13.86 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 01:07:13.97 | Chair Nichols | Thank you. |
| 01:07:14.03 | Kristina Feller | Okay, I will yield to you Chair Nichols. |
| 01:07:16.60 | Chair Nichols | Thank you. Okay, thank you. At this time, I'd like to call for any public comment on the application that's been discussed at 12 L Portel and 690 Bridgeway. If you would like, Dan, can you tell them how they raised their hand or how they INDICATE THEY'D LIKE TO GET PUBLIC COMMENTS. |
| 01:07:40.24 | Dan (Staff) | Yeah. So this is a time, this is for public comment. So video or audio public comment participation is limited to three minutes per speaker. If you would like to make a comment, please raise your hand in the Zoom application. and you will be called upon when it is your time to speak. to raise your hand from a phone, with star nine. Each speaker will be notified when their time has elapsed. |
| 01:08:07.61 | Chair Nichols | THANK YOU. I will give people a second. I'm not seeing anything on my screen. |
| 01:08:18.24 | Chair Nichols | Okay, at this time, I'm going to close public comment. I appreciate your bringing that to my attention, Chair Feller. and AND APOLOGIES FOR THINKING THAT we adjourned at our portion of the meeting that I see the way it's noticed that yeah, you're right. So we need to keep it open. So I'm going to actually stay on, but I'll go out of this meeting. We can say we've adjourned at 7.50, and I'll come back into the Zoom call just as an individual. So thank you, Commissioners and THANKS TO ANY COMMISSIONERS. |
| 01:08:53.53 | Kristina Feller | Bye. Yeah, so I think at this time we're just going to move into item 4B in this special joint hearings so Dan over to you if there's anything to augment your previous staff report for the planning commission. If you'd like to do that. |
| 01:09:11.60 | Dan (Staff) | I will leave that up to the planning commission if they want to see any more. I do not have any more slides. I do have, I have the one slide with the recommendation on it. So I will go into and I'm hitting enter and it's not going anywhere. |
| 01:09:30.16 | Kristina Feller | Well that's okay, I think, there we go. Thank you. |
| 01:09:32.10 | Dan (Staff) | Oh, there we go. |
| 01:09:32.12 | Kristina Feller | Other reasons, |
| 01:09:34.33 | Dan (Staff) | So staff recommendation to the planning commission is based on the information previously provided The planning commission approved changes to an approved project for the proposed exterior changes. to 12 El Portal and 690 Bridgeway. That they approve a minor use permit amendment to allow expanded outdoor dining that they, uh, uh, Basically recommend an encroachment agreement amendment to the city council. Um, approve the sign program. for the project. and approve a conditional use permit for the sale of alcohol. |
| 01:10:09.11 | Kristina Feller | Very good. OK, so let's go ahead and stop screen share for just a moment. And I'd like to ask the planning commissioners if they have any questions or clarifications of staff Commissioner Luxenberg, do you have any questions for staff? |
| 01:10:24.59 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you, Chair Feller. I do. Some of which I think rather than to save time, I'll wait and ask Mr. Rex when he further gives update on the conditional use permit. But I do have a question in the staff report. There's a proposed conditions of approval. So Dan, there's three that I want you to look at. The first is number seven, which refers to the previous building plans, but does not refer to the building plans that are part of this application. So I think that needs, because it says, if not changed in this app of the conditions of approval, but there's no reference to these plans in this. What page is that? What page is that? See, it's, let me go back to it. |
| 01:11:12.06 | Dan (Staff) | What page is that? What page is that? |
| 01:11:18.77 | Jeffery Luxenberg | it is a and not the pages aren't numbered. They're at the top. |
| 01:11:28.34 | Dan (Staff) | Talk. |
| 01:11:29.17 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 01:11:29.18 | Dan (Staff) | OF THE SHOW. |
| 01:11:29.22 | Jeffery Luxenberg | of the staff report. No, no, no, in the conditions of approval. Oh, in the resolution. Okay, cool. Number seven in the CDB |
| 01:11:34.92 | Dan (Staff) | I don't know what it means. |
| 01:11:38.97 | Jeffery Luxenberg | conditions refers to, it says, except as otherwise noted in these conditions of approval, the plan submitted to the building division for plan checks play identical to those approved by the city council with a plan date of August 16th, but there's no reference to these plans. So somewhere there has to be a reference in that condition to the date of these plans, because these are now the current plan. |
| 01:12:11.96 | Kristina Feller | OKAY. WHAT ELSE DO YOU HAVE? |
| 01:12:14.19 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Number 10 indicates in the same day as three down from where we were that this approval does not authorize any alcoholic service at the subject side, unless it's especially authorized by the planning commission through the issuance of the conditional use permit. But this vote that we're gonna to pay if we agree with your proposal is the conditional use permit so i think this probably should refer to the city council and not the planning |
| 01:12:51.23 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 01:12:51.26 | Dan (Staff) | Um... |
| 01:12:51.95 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 01:12:52.28 | Dan (Staff) | The next one. |
| 01:12:52.49 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 01:12:52.53 | Unknown | Okay. |
| 01:12:53.44 | Dan (Staff) | So hold on, because I just I just caught up to your number seven. So I think I just I need to change that to the date of the May 25th submittal. |
| 01:12:57.69 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:13:02.01 | Dan (Staff) | because I left it as the building permits the middle and I think that's where I erred. Is that correct? |
| 01:13:09.52 | Jeffery Luxenberg | No, I mean the building's the middle is fine. It's that it's changing. It says the plans submitted shall be identical to those approved by the city council with a plan date. So we wanted identical to the ones that are submitted here, I think. submitted to the planning commission. |
| 01:13:27.11 | Dan (Staff) | Yeah, and that's May 25th. |
| 01:13:29.18 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Okay, so it should say that's the planning commission in May 25th. |
| 01:13:33.91 | Dan (Staff) | Okay, already changed. |
| 01:13:35.34 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Okay, number 10, the 10, you might want to say, unless expressly authorized by the city council, because they're going to have to go to the city council for approval for alcohol. But this approval will be the approval for the alcohol on behalf of the planning commission. Thank you. So if it says it doesn't authorize it, it is authorizing. That's what we're doing. So, Okay. |
| 01:14:05.89 | Kristina Feller | So let's keep going Jeff. |
| 01:14:07.71 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Okay, so the next one is 21A. It indicates safe and adequate passage of 48 inches in width. We are provided on the sidewalk everywhere else we're requiring 60 inches. So we need to change 21 to 60 inches. |
| 01:14:26.86 | Dan (Staff) | Mm, that... This is per the comment from DBW has reviewed this and said the five foot that they're proposing is 60 inches. AND THAT THE the safe and adequate passage Oh, I see what you're saying. I was taking that as what the normal is Okay, change. |
| 01:14:49.42 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Okay, so those are my three questions. The other questions I have, I'll ask for Mr. Rutschman after he does his presentation as well. Thank you, Chair Bill. |
| 01:14:58.30 | Kristina Feller | Excellent, thank you so much, Commissioner Luxembourg. Commissioner Saad, any questions for staff? |
| 01:15:03.58 | Nastassya Saad | None for staff right now. |
| 01:15:04.95 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Commissioner Graham? |
| 01:15:06.82 | Richard Graef | None for staff. |
| 01:15:07.11 | Nastassya Saad | I'm not. |
| 01:15:08.83 | Kristina Feller | Okay, Vice Chair Junius. Okay, great. Thank you. Um, I just have a quick question for clarification. The applicant was talking about that the signage is going to be consistent for the whole building. including the chamber but I believe what we're hearing tonight does not include the chamber And does the chamber signage have to come back to us separately or is this the signage for the whole, this is getting a little confusing. I wanna make sure I'm very, very clear what we're looking at, what signage package we're looking at, and what it conveys to. |
| 01:15:48.82 | Dan (Staff) | Madam Chair, you asking me or Mr. X? |
| 01:15:50.97 | Kristina Feller | I'm asking you. |
| 01:15:52.08 | Dan (Staff) | Well, this is the complete package for the signage program. That's why I called it a signage program. |
| 01:15:57.83 | Kristina Feller | Okay, so everything else is just for cultivar. and accept the signage, which is the whole building. |
| 01:16:05.12 | Dan (Staff) | The white vinyl letters are for the Chamber of Commerce building. |
| 01:16:11.01 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Okay. All right. |
| 01:16:14.39 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 01:16:14.45 | Kristina Feller | FORFAST. |
| 01:16:14.73 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 01:16:15.69 | Kristina Feller | And, And I know that director McGowan is on, but I know he's on for another matter, but I'm assuming that DPW and Southern Moon Fire reviewed these plans the May 25th plans |
| 01:16:27.65 | Dan (Staff) | Yes, they did. |
| 01:16:28.82 | Kristina Feller | Okay, all right, very good. Thank you. Um... And then just to confirm, did we get any public comment in writing on this project? We did not. |
| 01:16:41.10 | Dan (Staff) | We did not. We did not. |
| 01:16:43.31 | Kristina Feller | And just again, for the public record, this project was properly noticed. |
| 01:16:49.22 | Dan (Staff) | Yes, absolutely. To people within, |
| 01:16:50.35 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 01:16:52.83 | Dan (Staff) | So property owners within 300 feet as well as the site. |
| 01:16:56.78 | Kristina Feller | Perfect, okay, perfect, great. Thank you. Do the commissioners have any more questions for staff at this time? If not, just by a show of hands. If not, I'm gonna ask the applicant to Mr. Rex to come back and if you want to, supplement the presentation that you've already given to HBCP, you're welcome to do that. This is a new item on the agenda, so you do get 15 minutes. for your presentation. If I could ask Maria to put our timing clock up on the screen so you can refer to it. |
| 01:17:27.52 | Robert Maxwell | Thank you. |
| 01:17:27.57 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:17:27.59 | Robert Maxwell | Thank you. |
| 01:17:33.46 | Kristina Feller | we'll get started. So over to you, Mr. Rex. |
| 01:17:37.72 | Michael Rex | Thank you. Yeah, I wanted to touch upon some of the technical aspects of the project and maybe answer a few questions that have come up tonight. I'm going to share a screen and show you the, Here we go. Okay, you can see the plan view of the outdoor dining. |
| 01:17:59.86 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 01:17:59.87 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:17:59.92 | Kristina Feller | Yes. |
| 01:18:00.50 | Michael Rex | Yeah. And as Mr. Horner noted, the red dotted line is what exists. You approved the wider sidewalk in front of Cafe Tootie. Now we wish to extend it to Bridgeway that you saw last time. But what we've done since we've studied the the technical aspect of this in terms of vehicular and fire truck access and drainage. as well as ABA compliance. Um, extending the sidewalk has many benefits right now. The sidewalk has a very severe cross slope, which does not meet ADA, which ultimately the city would have to fix at their expense. This repairs that El Patel sidewalk at private expense. Also, there's a drainage problem at that corner, water ponds where the ADA ramp comes down to the street. And we also have a fairly steep slope to get up into the restaurant at that building corner. It's a fairly standard practice now to try to encourage bull bouts, which narrow sidewalks or crosswalks So widening the sidewalk will narrow that crosswalk. There's a very severe crown in the center of El Pratel. We went and had that fully surveyed. We know exactly where those slopes are now. And we've calculated that by widening the sidewalk, it'll meet ADA and it does not require redoing that crown. So that's all very good news. We looked at the drainage and we can fix that. We're proposing a area drain right here. in the center. That'll all be part of our building permit plans that we'll be revising for this wider sidewalk that can be reviewed by the building department. Thanks. |
| 01:19:58.84 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Michael, can you zoom in so we can actually see what you're pointing at? |
| 01:20:03.38 | Michael Rex | Oh. Yeah, I must have a smaller screen. Yeah, I mentioned there'd be an area drain in the center here. So the sidewalk will have a very slight slope in all directions to that area drain. But we're confident that meets city standards and ADA standards. And staff pointed out that this wider sidewalk, the outdoor dining still represents only a third of the 150 foot frontage. I wanted to show you, you asked at the last hearing about Can vehicles turn around? And it hadn't been reviewed by public works or fire department, but now it has. And, I wanna show you, should be able to, yeah. We prepared a whole series of drawings that we took the largest fire truck and plotted turning radius that are well defined in industry standards. Where are they here? Yeah, there's your turning rate. We have all that data. |
| 01:21:12.30 | Kristina Feller | You don't see your screen, Michael, sorry. |
| 01:21:12.59 | Michael Rex | And Pardon me? |
| 01:21:15.52 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. I'm sorry to interrupt you again, but we don't see your screen. |
| 01:21:18.48 | Michael Rex | Oh, darn, how calm. Sorry, let me go back. Thank you. Oh, okay, I see what happened. Yeah, you gotta tell me that, thank you. I was just showing, we took the largest fire truck, we have all the turning radius for that fire truck, We've superimposed it on our survey. a fire truck, the, I'm gonna zoom in even further. The fire department said that it works for them if you have at least 20 foot width. Curve to curve, we're showing at the most narrowest point 21 feet, three inches. So it's not the minimum they require. And it actually, Al-Pertal gets wider as it heads to the east towards the bay. So that's only at this narrowest point. And you can see plotting all the turning radiuses Heading south, you could turn in, heading north, you could turn in. We show this to David Parisi, well-known traffic engineer the city often works with. And he mentioned that, Uh, If Tracy Wayes closed off, Right now it's closed off in the summer season for bicycles. what happens for turnaround at those times So what we're showing is a hammerhead that that big large fire truck can turn around If Tracy Weiss closed off for bike parking seasonally or if it's closed off permanently there's some discussions of that now as part of the ferry landing improvement None of that would change the ability for the fire truck to get in. And if a fire truck, the largest fire truck to get in, they all can. all vehicles can. We're confident that we have that covered. Uh, And both fire department and public works looked at it. |
| 01:23:16.60 | Unknown | Mm-hmm. |
| 01:23:17.06 | Michael Rex | their comments are in the staff report. They have conditions of approval that we found acceptable. Um, And in fact, we looked at all the conditions of approval. There's, um, Gosh, 27 by the planning department, 15 by Publix Works. We find all of those conditions acceptable. And I think that concludes the comments. I do want to point out, as you did, that there's no comments from the public. And I actually think even though this is the third time we've looked at it, This is the best design yet. And I think the addition of Cultivar and their quality uh, aesthetic and goals, um, has really enhanced the design. The last thing I want to mention, I have minutes, more, uh, questions came up about, uh, the can't metal canopy. as opposed to a fabric awning. We think that the heaters, the metals probably essential, pretty hard to put a heaters in a canvas awning. And because they extend out so far, we think those columns are necessary. I think we're fortunate we found such handsome and lightweight cast iron columns. One of the reasons we went to Lattice is we don't, and in fact, a canvas haunting that would stick out that far when shadow of the daylight coming into the restaurant The lattice does two things. It allows light to penetrate it. It's more permanent, so we don't have to worry about shabby looking awnings in a few years. It gives us the opportunity to put heaters out there. But it also, with the addition of the vines, I think give that outdoor dining a sense of permanence and a nice garden kind of experience, which is consistent with the park right across the street. And, even though it's not fabric, I think the shape is certainly indicative of traditional awnings. So make a pitch for that change. And were there any other questions? Just let me see really quick. No, but I'm available for what kind of questions you have. Thank you. |
| 01:25:31.08 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Thank you so much. I'll make note that You have seven minutes. |
| 01:25:36.26 | Michael Rex | Thank you. |
| 01:25:36.31 | Unknown | Okay, thank you. |
| 01:25:37.00 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 01:25:37.39 | Michael Rex | Thank you. |
| 01:25:38.28 | Kristina Feller | And I don't know if Mr. Petrie, the owner or your tenant, Mr. Harris, is interested in speaking now or later. They're obviously welcome to do so. |
| 01:25:38.42 | Unknown | Um, |
| 01:25:49.64 | Kristina Feller | BUT AT THIS TIME, Let me open this up to commissioners to ask any questions of you, Mr. Rex of this project. Commissioner Saad, let's start with you. |
| 01:26:04.86 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you, Chair Feller. I was just trying to get to, I think I took my notes correctly on page, five of the staff report, I think we had maybe a few different color words being thrown out. And I want to just clarify, uh... in terms of the sash did i see correctly in the staff report that You're looking to change from the bronze to black. Is that correct, Mr. Rack? |
| 01:26:33.87 | Michael Rex | No, I think there's some confusion there. We plan on a very dark bronze. It's very dark. It looks almost black, but it still has a bronze tint. I kind of, maybe there was just a misunderstanding. I'm not quite sure. |
| 01:26:46.41 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:26:46.46 | Nastassya Saad | Okay. |
| 01:26:46.76 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 01:26:51.79 | Nastassya Saad | Yeah, I think in the staff report, I'm just looking at page five, says window sash colors have been modified from bronze to black to contrast. So as long, I mean, that's okay if that's unfair. |
| 01:26:58.37 | Michael Rex | to comment. |
| 01:27:01.86 | Nastassya Saad | I saw that and okay. |
| 01:27:01.90 | Michael Rex | I saw that and. It caught my eye too. Thanks for Clarify. |
| 01:27:07.11 | Nastassya Saad | Sure, okay. And then, but could you just reconfirm then the lattice that you were showing earlier? Is that black? That's black. |
| 01:27:14.59 | Michael Rex | That's why. Yeah. |
| 01:27:16.73 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 01:27:16.97 | Michael Rex | wanted to pretend to be part of the building. We wanted it more of an accessory, just like the signage is black. |
| 01:27:23.84 | Nastassya Saad | Right. And can you remind me, because I have everything open and I'm on one little screen here, the last approved with the fabric awnings, what color were the fabric awnings? Do you recall? |
| 01:27:38.77 | Michael Rex | They looked yellowish. |
| 01:27:39.19 | Nastassya Saad | They look yellowish, tan. Yes. Okay. |
| 01:27:41.57 | Michael Rex | Yeah, and that's what shows in our model. |
| 01:27:44.88 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 01:27:45.03 | Michael Rex | The two colors on the building, the walls are all fairly deep tan. And then the trim is a lighter color tan. And we thought the awning should match the trim. |
| 01:27:45.08 | Nastassya Saad | Right. |
| 01:27:56.08 | Michael Rex | were similar. |
| 01:27:57.40 | Nastassya Saad | Okay, thank you. I just wanted to make sure I got all of the colors straight. And then... |
| 01:28:02.06 | Michael Rex | And that's what we're proposing for the chamber. We're proposing replacing their awnings. |
| 01:28:07.04 | Nastassya Saad | Right. Yes, thank you. Um, I don't think I have any other questions at the moment. Thank you, Chair Feller. |
| 01:28:15.42 | Kristina Feller | Thank you very much, Commissioner Saad. Commissioner Luxenberg. |
| 01:28:19.49 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you, Chair Feller. Michael, last time, I appreciate you bringing us, I have asked for bringing out the sidewalk to Bridgeway. So I think that's an excellent solution. I think this is an important project for downtown. At the last meeting, you had this entrance with chairs on both sides where the former cafe 2D entrance was. And at that time I said, you know, once you, I asked for an interior plan, you said that you hadn't yet done that. I said, well, once you do that, you're probably gonna move that entrance and eliminate that. And sure enough, you've done exactly that. That was impressive. But in the package, you now have your interior plan. And I don't see that. Can you put up the interior plan? Cause what I don't want to have happen is we come in, you come in yet a fourth time. Thank you. And I don't see that. Can you put up the interior plan? Because what I don't want to have happen is we come in, you come in yet a fourth time. So can you show us that interior plan? |
| 01:29:12.46 | Michael Rex | Yeah, well, it's amazing you asked for it because right before the hearing began, I started looking for it. It's not our plan, it's Jody Harris's plan. And Jody, you're there. I don't know if you could find it quickly. I would have to dig for it. It was sent to me some time ago Um, We needed that plan to figure out how to tie that indoors and outdoors together. Um, see if I can find it unless you have it, Jody. Can, can, are you there? Where's Joey? |
| 01:29:53.35 | Kristina Feller | You can look for it and we can come back to that question because it's a good question that Commissioner Luxembourg has asked for. |
| 01:29:59.15 | Michael Rex | Yes, I will look for it while we're, taking other questions. |
| 01:30:03.56 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. if you can look for it, but I don't know if you can do it at the same time. If you could just bring up the previously approved plan that showed the gallery for a second, because at least it has some walls in there. And then I'll ask a different question. |
| 01:30:19.03 | Michael Rex | and related to that. I'll go back to the previous plan. Let me find it. You showed it in your last- Yeah, no, I have it here. I need to share the screen. Yeah. Let me do that. Right. Green share, here it is. Okay. This shows the, can you see the plant? |
| 01:30:43.08 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yeah. but this is the one. So, yeah, I'm now counting on the new plan, not this plan that you have about 56 chairs outside. And which is if I calculated correctly about a 20 share increase, which will probably make it the largest outside Thank you. And I know that if this were private and I realize this is on public land, if it was private, which the SPAC report indicates that you cannot exceed 25% of the interior design in five tables with 20 people. Because it's on public land, it can be different than that. I understand that. but I am concerned about the number of bathrooms and kitchen equipment to support what, I'd like to see the interior plan and know how many seats are we talking about? The original space is now doubled and the outside is 50. So this is probably well over a hundred seats. So the number of bathrooms, the amount of kitchen equipment to support that, if you can bring that up with that, it might be in that plan that Joey is looking for. |
| 01:31:49.99 | Michael Rex | Yeah, I do have some information for you, but I'm not sure while we're looking for that plan, the outdoor, dining that was previously approved is 36 seats. And the area where we're showing the seating on this approved plan that you see That's the 36 seats. uh, by getting that front door out of that area and moving it towards Bridgeway, we were able to add three more seats. So that existing area that was approved went from 36 to 39. when we extend the sidewalk to Bridgeway, what you saw last time, we didn't show any tables and chairs out there. And of course you kind of wonder, well, why would we widen that sidewalk and just have it be empty? The four tables, the round tables and the one dues, we're adding 18 seats to the 36 for a total of 57. In your staff report, it's noted that The restaurant was grandfathered for 88, I mean, sorry, 22 parking spaces. And the city equates parking to seats, four seats per car. So that would be a total of grandfathered use of 88 seats and inside. The city doesn't require parking for outdoor dining. I asked Jody right before this hearing, because I was struggling to find his plan, how many seats is he proposing? because he has a different architect for the interior. We're not involved in that design. having a little trouble finding the plan. told me that there's 74 seats is what they show on their drawing. and I think. |
| 01:33:46.85 | Kristina Feller | I recommend, though, that based on the time we have tonight, we've got to get into our regular hearing here. I know that there's a lot of discussion. What Commissioner Luschenberg is asking is important, but I don't want to belabor the issue if we don't have the information in front of us. We can come back to the question. |
| 01:34:02.05 | Robert Maxwell | we can call. |
| 01:34:04.19 | Kristina Feller | And I'm making note of these questions, but we do need to move this along. So I don't want to just use airtime until we find the drawing. Let's keep moving forward because we do need to take action to move into our regular hearing. |
| 01:34:19.40 | Michael Rex | Yeah, while we're talking, I'll look for it. And Jody, if you find it, that'd be helpful. |
| 01:34:24.33 | Kristina Feller | Commissioner Luxenberg, you deserve a commitment. |
| 01:34:25.76 | Michael Rex | Yeah, yeah. |
| 01:34:26.40 | Jody Harris (Tenant) | Thank you. I've got it here, I can share my screen. How do I share my screen? I'm She said the share screen. Um, okay, but this is the insurer plan, but you have to ignore the part of this drawing that shows the patio, it does not match Michael Rex's plan. Um, |
| 01:34:55.11 | Michael Rex | But the interiors, the lighthouse. |
| 01:34:56.74 | Jody Harris (Tenant) | The interior is right. Can you see that? |
| 01:34:59.16 | Michael Rex | Yes. |
| 01:34:59.66 | Jody Harris (Tenant) | Thank you. Can you zoom in a little bit? Here's what I can do. I can almost... Do it in a way to, There we go. it. hide the... Yeah, so there's a whole bathroom calculation. |
| 01:35:10.75 | Jeffery Luxenberg | So, |
| 01:35:10.97 | Unknown | There's another one. |
| 01:35:11.24 | Robert Maxwell | Oh, thank you. |
| 01:35:13.79 | Jody Harris (Tenant) | You know, we've calculated based on the patio or the sidewalk included. Um, We've got four or five bathrooms downstairs. We also have a employee bathroom up on a mezzanine. We've got a total of six toilets. I think the total capacity is about 115 seats interior and exterior. |
| 01:35:33.63 | Michael Rex | They've been trying. |
| 01:35:40.45 | Michael Rex | And Jody, there's no public up in the mezzanine, correct? Correct, that's an employee bathroom. But the whole mezzanine is for staff. |
| 01:35:48.80 | Jody Harris (Tenant) | Thank you. |
| 01:35:48.82 | Michael Rex | Thank you. |
| 01:35:48.84 | Jody Harris (Tenant) | Thank you. |
| 01:35:48.97 | Michael Rex | Yes, correct. Storage and ancillary uses. |
| 01:35:52.13 | Jody Harris (Tenant) | Yeah. Not at the unit. |
| 01:35:52.73 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 01:35:52.75 | Michael Rex | Not it. |
| 01:35:53.04 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. sex bathroom or what's going on there? |
| 01:35:56.48 | Jody Harris (Tenant) | Yes, yes, with private stalls, yes. Thank you. Mm-hmm. |
| 01:36:02.22 | Jeffery Luxenberg | And I think. And you've looked at the building, your architect for the insides, looked at the building code for that? |
| 01:36:02.42 | Jody Harris (Tenant) | Yes. |
| 01:36:08.97 | Jeffery Luxenberg | for the number of seats. |
| 01:36:09.41 | Jody Harris (Tenant) | I guess. Yeah, it is. There's a note. I guess it might be here. Let's see. |
| 01:36:16.88 | Kristina Feller | So commissioner Luxenberg, this is something that community confirms and checks that information. |
| 01:36:19.77 | Jody Harris (Tenant) | Here it is. |
| 01:36:24.44 | Kristina Feller | Um, obviously we'll not issue a permit until, uh, uh, California building code and any other code at NFPA or anything is satisfied. So I want to stick to the purview of the commission here. I mean, it's a great question, but I want to stick to the purview of what is in front of us tonight to approve. |
| 01:36:24.70 | Jody Harris (Tenant) | Okay. |
| 01:36:25.35 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 01:36:42.10 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I understand that my question relates to, I know that there's no additional parking requirements for the outside seating, but given the great increases, just wanted to make sure that we were gonna see, and now we're seeing this, it would have been helpful to have this plan, Chair Feller, but if we could get a copy of this plan, that would be good. |
| 01:37:03.00 | Michael Rex | Thank you. If I could quickly add on this, the restaurant will be submitting a separate building permit to develop the interior and it'll be under a different architect, but our firm has been working with Jody's, Harris's architect to make sure that the two spaces relate and flow. And if you could zoom out a little bit, Jody, You can see the doors or windows are exactly where we talked about. The only difference is we loosened up the dining out at the corner and we narrowed the crosswalk. but the relationship between indoor use and outdoor use is coordinated. I think it is important to understand that. |
| 01:37:50.91 | Kristina Feller | Well, I think to commissioner Luxenberg's point, which is an excellent one as before, one of the conditions is that any changes are coming back to the commission. They're not a ministerial approval. And that is a condition. that I would certainly recommend that we continue with We need this built. We're so excited about Cultivar, but this needs to get built. And, you know, this is a big gaping hole in our downtown. in the busiest months. So I think Commissioner Luxembourg has some very excellent questions here. Commissioner Luxenberg, do you have any more questions for the applicant? |
| 01:38:25.47 | Jeffery Luxenberg | So those are all the questions I have at this time, Chair Feller. |
| 01:38:28.73 | Kristina Feller | Excellent, excellent work. Commissioner Graff. |
| 01:38:33.39 | Richard Graef | Um, thanks, Sheriff Beller. Um, I only had a couple of questions. One had to do with the seating that's been added out towards Bridgeway Um, And I see that really, Michael, you said it was really kind of an opportunistic call because suddenly there was a space and there's a space let's fill it So, I'm assuming that that's the rationale. that that there wasn't a, The restaurant didn't feel like it was Didn't have enough. See. So I was just questioning, you know, how the determination to add those seats came about. And, And then I just wondered about the perforated awning. I mean, I liked the effect. but I really do wonder Is that going to keep out the mist and the light rain? that happens occasionally or, Are you worried about that? |
| 01:39:48.02 | Michael Rex | Yeah, okay, thanks for those questions. So my point on the sidewalk widening is at the last approval, we asked to widen the sidewalk, but we didn't show how it'd be used. It seems like we should show how it'd be used, but we didn't just stick chairs out there because we're gonna have the space. The number of seats came from Jody Harris to ensure that he told me point blank and you can ask him about it if you like that this is going to be a very expensive undertaking and every seat is where the revenue comes from. And the number of seats that's proposed is what he feels he needs to be economically successful. And for a restaurant of this size and the amount of staff it requires. If you want more specific information, you can ask him, but that's what he told me. And that's why those seats are there. In terms of incremental weather, we considered an awning versus the open lattice. And that can you really be out in the rain with an awning? originally the awnings had gaps between them because we wanted to express those pilasters. And so even with the awnings we showed last time, it wasn't gonna keep the rain out. It's not just rain, it's really cool weather. And if it's pouring rain, no one's going to be out there anyway. But we think the metal is going to allow us to have really good heaters over all those tables. And that's going to be, you know, what will really allow people to stay out there. If it's a really heavy mist coming down again, they probably wouldn't be out there. SO, But we also think the benefit of light coming to the interiors with the open lattice and the garden like quality and the sense of permanence. They're trade-offs. |
| 01:41:54.32 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 01:41:54.33 | Richard Graef | Okay. Well, thank you. That answers my question. you know. |
| 01:41:58.94 | Kristina Feller | Any more questions for the applicant commissioner? |
| 01:42:02.74 | Richard Graef | No further questions. |
| 01:42:04.19 | Kristina Feller | Okay, thank you. Vice Chair Junius? |
| 01:42:08.90 | Andrew Junius | Thank you, Chair Feller. I'm actually, I agree good changes. I think excited about this happening. Really hope it moves along. I'm just hoping Mr. Rex, that that you consulted with the new tenant here, the restaurant tenant, you've gone through all the exterior changes that are gonna be needed and this is it, right? We're not gonna see anything exterior again, right? I really want to get this done and I hope you've really worked on it and thought it through. |
| 01:42:31.78 | Michael Rex | I really want to. |
| 01:42:35.51 | Michael Rex | we both want the same thing there. It's rare to come back three times, but changing the use and tendency in the middle of the design didn't help. |
| 01:42:45.40 | Andrew Junius | No, I appreciate that. And I'm very sympathetic to the, you know, the challenges these days to businesses and property owners and architects and everything and trying to keep something moving. So I commend you in that respect. Yeah, let's get this done, okay? Thank you. We can. |
| 01:43:00.03 | Michael Rex | Thank you. |
| 01:43:00.31 | Andrew Junius | Thank you. |
| 01:43:00.43 | Michael Rex | Thank you. |
| 01:43:00.94 | Kristina Feller | Great, thank you, Vice Chair Junius. Mr. Rex, just a couple questions. Um, from my point and I'll just start with again stating that I'm very excited about the tenant cultivar is a top notch restaurant in the city that I have frequented Um, They were the tenant that you identified before, so this is not new to us. You've mentioned that in your letter, but this has always been the tenant you've talked to us about. So this is not new information to us. I wanted to know, Um... And this is also probably a question for staff. Have you worked with staff on what those clearances are from, let's call it the table area and the edge of the sidewalk. And the reason I'm asking what those dimensions are is they have to be a minimum of five feet clear. for the sidewalk area And that includes clear of any street pole, any meter, not that there are meters there, fire hydrants, any of those sorts of items, trees, Anything like that, it needs to be five feet clear. And when we say clear, we mean clear, no obstruction. And we want to make sure that those dimensions are in line with that requirement. And it is a minimum. dimension that we're calling out as Commissioner Luxenberg referred to earlier. So if you can confirm that, and I will ask that our interim director, Porter, that that is a condition of approval that all of those areas are clear. I don't wanna, I wanna make sure that your seating area is thawed out. It looks nice on a plan, But the reality, if you go out on the streets, you have the poles here, lighting, trees, you name it. So I want to make sure. |
| 01:45:05.48 | Michael Rex | If I may, I'm gonna share the screen with you again so you could see it for yourself. Is this large enough to see? |
| 01:45:16.48 | Kristina Feller | Sure. |
| 01:45:17.24 | Michael Rex | Um, may enlarge it just a little bit more. Yeah. It's five feet, we've been very careful on those numbers because we know the planning commission is expecting it. You can see the dimension here of five feet. This is a CAD, a very accurate CAD drawing based on a survey. And from the edge of the planter, and those are custom planters, we can control the size to the curb. The curb's another six inches. So the sidewalk is five feet along the entire length And there's nothing that would project into that five feet plus the curve. So you actually have a five foot six space. and it wraps all the way around. At the corner where it tends to get congested, there's a lot more room. |
| 01:46:14.49 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, okay. I don't know if you've gone down there to make sure that there are no street lights or no parking poles or anything. you know, as we keep saying, you know, we want you to get this bill and we don't want to have to have you come back here because of that. So that outdoor seating we're hoping has already taken all of those conditions into account. You have. |
| 01:46:41.49 | Jeffery Luxenberg | you have. |
| 01:46:42.34 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Okay. See you soon. |
| 01:46:44.04 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Chair Feller, could I just make a comment that might be helpful to this? I believe that all of the sidewalk extension that Mr. Ruxer talking about is currently in the street. |
| 01:46:55.11 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 01:46:55.18 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. So therefore, there aren't any polls or anything currently You don't want to create any, but there aren't any right now for sure, because that's part of the street right now. |
| 01:47:04.38 | Kristina Feller | Right, we do not want to create a need. That's absolutely right. The other thing I wanted to ask you is, and this is a good diagram, there is a planter median, and maybe I should use that term lightly, on El Portal, but there are planters down the middle to create a median. And when you looked at some of those turning radiuses and you're expanding the sidewalk, I don't believe that Most delivery trucks going down to the, you know, in above tides or, Um, any other truck or fire engine or whatever can actually get down that. the, I'll call it your side of El Portal. WITH THE OTHER. |
| 01:47:50.26 | Michael Rex | Yes. Can you see my drawing on the screen? |
| 01:47:53.74 | Kristina Feller | Yeah. |
| 01:47:54.56 | Michael Rex | Yeah, we've been asked to remove that planner in the middle. Based on the survey, we know right where it is, and we dotted it in on the drawing. I can enlarge it a little bit if that would help. it says remove existing planter and show them dotted in because you're absolutely right. It's not parallel to our building and it's a skew. |
| 01:48:16.53 | Kristina Feller | WHO ASKED YOU TO REMOVE IT? |
| 01:48:18.34 | Michael Rex | The staff has asked us as part of the plan to be sure that's removed. |
| 01:48:22.51 | Kristina Feller | I'm sorry, who? |
| 01:48:23.98 | Michael Rex | city style. |
| 01:48:25.02 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 01:48:25.04 | Kristina Feller | City staff. |
| 01:48:25.93 | Michael Rex | We didn't propose it, we were asked to remove it. |
| 01:48:28.70 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 01:48:29.12 | Michael Rex | Thank you. And our plan shows. Thank you. |
| 01:48:30.76 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 01:48:30.81 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, okay. |
| 01:48:31.25 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 01:48:31.25 | Michael Rex | Thank you. |
| 01:48:31.35 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 01:48:32.30 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 01:48:32.31 | Kristina Feller | Um, Thank you. The other, just the other point, and that is the awning. I'm really not in favor of this metal awning. I'll just put it out there. |
| 01:48:41.05 | Robert Maxwell | Thank you. |
| 01:48:41.07 | Unknown Commissioner | to put it out. |
| 01:48:41.59 | Robert Maxwell | Bye. |
| 01:48:42.30 | Kristina Feller | and particularly with all this wisteria or whatever you're gonna grow all over it. And the reason for that |
| 01:48:42.34 | Unknown Commissioner | Mm-hmm. |
| 01:48:42.71 | Kristina Feller | Bye. |
| 01:48:42.76 | Robert Maxwell | Bye. |
| 01:48:48.98 | Kristina Feller | and I'd like you to consider this. is it really stifles the view corridor down to the ferry landing. And what we're trying to do is actually open up that view corridor with other projects that you're familiar with down in this area. So I, for that reason, I am not really in favor of the awning that you're proposing. I think that the previous awning is far superior and a cleaner look and if you're worried about heaters well there are a number of examples of. canvas awnings with heaters that are extremely successful here in Sausalito. including Poggio, including the Yacht Club, just around the corner. So I'm not sure that it's the heater That's the issue. There's so many ways to solve that. And I would, I would ask that, that you might want to reconsider that. Of course, I am only one commissioner here on a commission of five. but I would ask for you to reconsider that THE OTHER item as the two street trees on El Portal that you have identified there. Was that requested by staff? |
| 01:50:01.19 | Michael Rex | No, it was not requested by staff. We proposed it because we're trying to emphasize the, Wraparound corner corner view. Uh, You can see on this corner image here, let me, Get that right there. Uh, You can see that you have the street trees on bridgeway and we wanted those same trees to wrap around the corner. We also thought, because the outdoor dining is 50 feet long, it would be a benefit to break it up visually into two different kinds of experiences where it's more open at the bridgeway corner And we thought because we don't have the canopies, at those tables, it'd be nice to dine under trees and umbrellas because the umbrellas are going to be more open. |
| 01:50:54.30 | Kristina Feller | Well, I'm again, you know, we're, we're obviously fans of trees on this commission and look for every opportunity to incorporate them. But again, we're trying to open up the viewport or not. not congested. So it's just a comment I have. And then the last comment I have and maybe you want to comment on this back is these these ropes that you're talking about, whether they're velvet ropes or chains, I really don't recommend that. And I will not support that because we spent a lot of time on this outdoor dining and parklet working group that commissioner Luxenberg is part of. And it's not just about ABC or liquor licenses and things like that. It's also about proper distancing. It's about safety. It's about buffering between different circulation paths. We get obviously a lot of bicycles in this part of town. And yes, I'm sure I'm not the only one who sees them riding around on the sidewalk and not, you know, in the street where they should be. or in their bike lanes. So it's not just for liquor license purposes that we're looking for that kind of a buffer. And so I really think we need to look at a more permanent solution here than perhaps what you proposed. where the umbrellas are. I don't think that continues all the way down, but certainly where the umbrellas are. So those are all my comments at this time. Um, And I would just echo something that Chair Nichols mentioned about the lighting. EDAC can make comments like that, but it's really HPC and the planning commission that have the jurisdiction over that. I think any condition of approval we want to ensure Interim Director Hortert that those conditions are included in whatever it is we're approving. So we're absolutely crystal clear here. |
| 01:53:04.05 | Michael Rex | Um, Can I reply to a couple of those questions? Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. I showed, do you see the image on the screen? |
| 01:53:13.62 | Unknown | Yes. |
| 01:53:14.35 | Michael Rex | Yeah, I'm showing how you can see under those canopies and umbrellas. In fact, there's a condition in a staff report that require a minimum height. So to ensure that you can look under them. whether they're cannabis awnings or metal awnings, in exactly the same location. In fact, I would argue the metal because There's no side panels, their open trusses will feel even more open. And the umbrellas are certainly light and airy So I don't think they're going to block view, whether they're metal or canvas, I don't think it changes the view impacts at all. And as those trees grow and the canopies get well above someone's head, which will happen very soon because they won't be that small in their planet, you'll be looking under the tree canopy as well. Um, uh, cause I, I agree with you. We want to optimize the views to the bay as much as we can. You know, the vines could hang down in block views. So maybe there needs to be a condition that they're kept trimmed or something of that sort. Cause that's something that you can't necessarily guarantee. In terms of the swag of chain of rope and the stanchions, I hear you loud and clear that it's not just ABC regs, that we want to be sure chairs and tables don't spill out into that five-foot passageway for pedestrians walking past. My suggestion there is we can design the stanchions in a way that they could be uh... dropped into a cylinder that would receive them. There's stock hardware like that. So those stanchions could not be moved. but they could be removed if necessary as a condition of the encroachment permit that all these private improvements could be removed. We're not building something so temporary that we can't. But that would ensure if those stanchions can't be moved, And that whether it's a guardrail or a stanchion, that should be sufficient. Maybe the chain is better than the rope, because that could feel more permanent as well. But I think there's an advantage to keep this corner a little lighter and more open. You notice the planters here is three separate ones instead of long ones. |
| 01:55:36.28 | Unknown | Sure. |
| 01:55:36.87 | Michael Rex | want to box in all the way to Bridgeway. And so again, those are considerations. And maybe a hardware that would allow a permanent stanton that can't be moved would be a way to mitigate that concern. |
| 01:55:51.11 | Kristina Feller | I assume the stanchions were permanent. I'm really talking about the rope idea, the whole idea behind the outdoor dining and parklet program that has been presented to the city council was that |
| 01:56:00.82 | Michael Rex | Yeah. |
| 01:56:04.55 | Kristina Feller | there was a little bit of a buffer, but we can get into that. So that's something I wanted to think about. We are going to go into public comment here because we do really need to move on to our regular hearing. |
| 01:56:08.43 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Wow. |
| 01:56:17.45 | Kristina Feller | And then these trees, again, they block some of the best views from your hotel tents. Why you have them there, I really don't know. I don't think that it's the best location for trees I think we can find better places for trees Um, So those are just a couple thoughts to think about. Um, Let's go ahead and stop sharing screen for just a moment. |
| 01:56:43.66 | Jody Harris (Tenant) | Can I just make a quick comment here? |
| 01:56:47.17 | Kristina Feller | Sure. |
| 01:56:47.95 | Jody Harris (Tenant) | Um, the awnings was a, It was a major project for Michael and I to really kind of come up with an alternative It was really important to me that we don't have canvas awnings I think they're a significant maintenance issue I think you guys take a look and drive versus Ossolito during the daylight. you'll see how dirty they get. So you've got maintenance and we're really looking for something permanent and fire safe. We went to metal, we've looked at a couple different options. and they came up with this lattice idea that'll also give us some light. So it seemed like a very good compromise that solved a lot of problems. And that's how we ended up with it. And in drawing, I'm really liking it more and more. I hope you'll see it that way. You know, we've got a 20 year lease. We're gonna be here a long time and we want it to look nice. The landscaping is gonna look nice. Plants are gonna look nice. Certainly we can probably do something different with the trees or the planters are more permanent and I'm not really against that. Something that is really, really important is these steel awnings. It's probably one of the most important things to me that I've contributed to this patio. just for those reasons, really, just for longevity. So. Um, Yeah, that's it. Thank you. |
| 01:58:16.64 | Unknown Commissioner | Thank you. |
| 01:58:16.68 | Kristina Feller | APPRECIATE THAT. Are there any other questions of the applicant right now? by the commissioners. If not, I will move into public comment and then we can come back to deliberate. Just by a show of hands, I'm not seeing anybody showing their hands, okay. Let's go ahead and open up this item to public comment. To do so, you can raise your hand in the Zoom application. or you can press star nine on your phone. So this is a time to comment on item 4B on our special joint session this evening. I'm just looking for hands. I'm gonna go ahead and close public comments. Mr. Rex, Mr. Harris, if you have any final comments before we move into deliberation, You do have seven minutes, seven some odd minutes left. I will allow you to do so. And then we will move into our deliberations. |
| 01:59:14.64 | Michael Rex | I have no further comment. |
| 01:59:16.70 | Kristina Feller | Okay, thank you, thank you. Okay. Let's bring this back up to our virtual dais and let's start our discussion here. Commissioner Luxenberg, do you want to start us off? |
| 01:59:31.79 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Uh, yeah, I mean, I'd like to get a copy of that plan that could be sent out or that could be sent out now as we're speaking so we can see it on our own computers. This is an important project. I think it needs to move ahead, but I, I really encourage staff in the future. There is no reason we asked for this plan back in, in March. There's no reason they should have even got to the hearing at this point without that plan. They clearly have the plans. So I'm a little frustrated by that, but I think that it looks like there was probably adequate support inside the support, the minor use permit and the conditional use permit outside, which is what I was looking for. But I, again, I'd like to see a copy of that plan. Thank you. |
| 02:00:18.40 | Unknown Commissioner | Thank you. |
| 02:00:18.46 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 02:00:18.52 | Unknown Commissioner | Okay, thank you. you |
| 02:00:20.32 | Kristina Feller | Commissioner Saad? |
| 02:00:23.12 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. Yes, I... I was waiting for a deliberation. I do have the same reaction that you're having, Chair Feller. It's great to hear some of the feedback from Mr. Rex and from the applicant. I definitely voted previously on both plans. I really liked the previous plans. Unfortunately, I really don't I do not think that this plan fits with the downtown area, just the way that, with the care that you gave, to all of the plans you've drawn, I really think your last set of drawings and plans. really hit the nail on the head, and I was really happy to vote yes for them. I AM NOT... I am not a fan of the metal awning. I am not a fan of the black. I find it a little harsh, especially, you know, we're a seaside, we're a seaside town. Sausalito has had this new trend lately to move towards the grays and the browns and the blacks. And I think that they're appropriate in certain areas, but in our historic district with a lot of the navies, Um, And, you know, the lighter colors really sort of open up the breath of the water, and you guys are very close to the water where you currently are. I think Chair Feller has a good point in the, in relation to the trees. I thought that was interesting that that was and ask from staff if I understood that correctly. We do love trees. I don't think they're appropriate for that site, and especially if we're talking about shade. I know that area very well. There is shade. You guys have a point there, so I feel like they're actually going to add some more shade to that area. So I just think that it's great to always see people willing to add trees. I just don't think that this is the right location necessarily for them. But I would really like to see those canvas awnings, that light tan color that you had. It was a lot of continuity. I think Commissioner Berkowitz from our HPC joint meeting really had a great point. Total respect to Mark Holberg, agree with his assessment and agree with the HPC's finding. You deserve the certificate of appropriateness. and have a right to make changes. It's not the historic building it once was. But the look and feel that you had in those previous designs gave that continuity to the old hotel, to the... now Chamber of Commerce and looked really aesthetically pleasing. So My last point is that, you know, definitely want to welcome this new restaurant. I too have frequented on Chestnut Street. It's a wonderful restaurant and we're excited to have something in that space. Cafe Tutti had been there for since I was a kid. I don't remember how long Cafe Tutti was in town, 20 plus years. Um, They never had outside dining. They had a couple of tables shoved against. I never knew if they were legal or not, It's a big change to that space. I would have loved to see gallery come back and I think Mr. Petrie made all the efforts he could. FOR THAT. Now we're going to have this restaurant, which we again welcome and definitely want to see built. But it is a pretty stark change from what it was to what it's becoming. And it's a little overwhelming for that tiny little restaurant. street in my opinion with that extra dining. So definitely supportive of the outdoor dining. I think that's 36 that you hit. even if it went up to that 39 that you kept in that middle section, was appropriate and a great use of that space. I just think that now adding on the other tables with the umbrellas, it's becoming very crowded. I think we need to leave some of that area just for pedestrians and people walking around A lot of traffic flow. I think we know we've got that Barry Landing, presentation coming up. So there's going to be some big changes in that area. and we wanna keep those in mind as well. Currently, Not necessarily on board with a new design. Really a fan of your old design, but would love to see what other commissioners are thinking as well. |
| 02:04:47.84 | Kristina Feller | Commissioner Saad, just for clarification in terms of the new design, is it specific to metal awnings and the trees or are there, do you have any issues with the relocation of doors and the addition of window? Just to be clear. |
| 02:05:00.61 | Nastassya Saad | So thank you for asking. I do not have any issues with the door or the window changes. I am not sure if with my preference to the old design, if that architecturally changes anything. But my core issue is that the lattice, the black lattice, I prefer the fabric awnings and the additional outside seating with the umbrellas. The rest of the changes, conditional use permit, the alcohol, those are all fine by me. |
| 02:05:30.08 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Very good. |
| 02:05:31.55 | Nastassya Saad | Mm-hmm. |
| 02:05:32.76 | Kristina Feller | Commissioner Graff, what are your thoughts on this? |
| 02:05:36.86 | Richard Graef | Thank you, Chair Feller. Well, I, uh, I sort of concur with... of a sense that the The metal awnings. tend to be kind of dark and a little heavy looking. That was my first reaction when I saw the drawings. Uh, I totally understand the rationale. for the awnings and it's pretty hard to argue with that. Um, But I did feel that that, uh, just that black, all that black, and the mass of it, it kind of took away There was a light feeling as Commissioner Saad pointed out, to the previous Um, proposal, and It does seem to me as if it's gotten a little bit on the heavy side. Um, They, uh, And with the additional seating there and the, Thank you. change of venue from one sort of format than the other It makes that whole thing much busier where it was a very simple kind of elegant. solution before. I'm not quite sure. whether that's a deal, breaker in my mind but uh because i i again i understand the the rationale for additional seating. I do like it. the addition of trees to the streetscape. Uh, Pretty hard to argue with that. The signage, I think the signage all looks fine. the lighting on the building, the fixtures, all the details, all that's very nice. Um, The, If the additional seating, is approved. The stanchions and the chains, I think are, I feel like they're not. quite there yet. I'm wondering if Um, Amen. I'm sort of contradicting myself, but we have the lattice of the, of the canopies, maybe there's some kind of a little lightweight lattice, spandrel between the verticals there so that it's slightly more architectural. I've never been much of a fan of chains and ropes, they all look so temporary and they don't really, make much of a barrier. All in all, it's a great project. So many design issues have been addressed and detailed. I am just slightly uncomfortable with the the black. the flat of pawning And I'm a little uncomfortable. with the treatment and the the additional seating. |
| 02:09:07.65 | Unknown Commissioner | Okay. |
| 02:09:08.19 | Richard Graef | Everything else I think is great. I want to see it get built, too. |
| 02:09:10.94 | Unknown Commissioner | Yeah. |
| 02:09:13.62 | Kristina Feller | Yeah. I APPRECIATE THAT. I'm Vice Chair Junius. |
| 02:09:18.16 | Andrew Junius | I have no further comments or questions. |
| 02:09:20.42 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Thank you. in the interest of time then because we do we do need to wrap wrap this up in a meaningful and and concise way um I I would I would like to revert back to to the canvas awnings the issue I have with with the the metal is not necessarily that it's metal It is all the vertical supports that are completely obstructing the view corridor that we're trying to expand. So it's working in complete contravention to what it is we're trying to do in downtown. the addition to wisteria, which when wisteria blooms, it is one of the most beautiful things I ever see, but it blooms about A WEEK, A YEAR. And so other than that, it's going to completely further constrict those view corridors and this is a long facade area and I think look, the care Mr. Rex that you've taken to the design, the ability Mr. Petri to attract the caliber of a restaurant like Cultivar, all these things are excellent. but we need to look at this project also in the larger context. I would like to recommend that the two trees on El Portal that you have recommended that we do not include those. I would like to recommend that we revert back to the canvas awnings there is There are many examples of successful cannabis awnings with |
| 02:10:44.07 | Becky Dower | Thank you. |
| 02:10:46.87 | Kristina Feller | you know, with the heaters. And In addition to that, if I would be happy to entertain if you want to change the color of the awning, to maybe differentiate the differentiate cultivar from the chamber or something like that. I'd be very open to that. But other than that, I think, you know, the rejiggering, if I can use that terminology of the door, the front door, the main door. the larger windows along bridgeway I have no issue with any of that I would like to propose that in the condition of approval, we are absolutely clear DAN, ABOUT THE CLEAR passageway for pedestrians on the sidewalk. that were very clear about the lighting that was discussed at HPC. with the the lighting along the scalloped top of the building. And I think that Mr. Rex had already talked about the down lighting at the windows and the doors at our last hearing. All of that is fine. I have really no issue with that. I think it will be beautiful. And then finally, I would propose something a little bit more permanent than the stanchions and rope whether that's chain or something else something that is You want to differentiate that area. I understand where the umbrellas are. It doesn't have to be exactly the same as the rest of the outdoor seating. But it needs to have a little bit more of a buffer and a sense of permanence. And again, that's in line with the outdoor dining and parklet program proposed to the city council. So all of that is in line with that. SO, WHAT IS THE What is it anyone's thoughts about those items? |
| 02:12:45.94 | Unknown Commissioner | Commissioner Luxenberg? |
| 02:12:47.55 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I understand commissioner Saad's concerns about those additional tables. That is a very busy corner. I also, I agree with you that the ropes are not a good idea. It should be something more like, even if it's open and some sort of metal railing or something, because people are going to push against the ropes out into the sidewalk. We're seeing that on the other side of bridgeway where both you got tables against the building and people standing and people can't get by. So maybe that area should be removed as commissioner's side said, or maybe it should be smaller. I'm sort of on the fence. So I like trees. So I don't know if the having, I understand blocking the views and the trees are just gonna grow and get bigger and then sort of impede things. So maybe that isn't the best place for trees, but on the other hand, I like trees. So I'm not sure about that. I'm not sure I'm objecting to the metal awning, but I agree a hundred percent with commissioner graphs concerned about and commissioner Sade's concerned about the dark color. I don't know if that awning could be lighter if they make it lighter, but yeah, I believe that's an awful lot of black and it's now much more than it was because they took out that center entrance and so there's even more of it than there was before. |
| 02:14:17.91 | Kristina Feller | You know, from... So we have an option that, I mean, if we don't have consensus here, we can either entertain a motion or we can also entertain an option to continue this with some clear direction to the applicant. But either way we do, We do need to wrap this up and we do need to move into our regular hearing which we're an hour and a half late for. So is there some kind of consensus here? Or would you like to continue this? Thank you. |
| 02:14:45.13 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I've heard all those. |
| 02:14:45.16 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yeah. |
| 02:14:45.35 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:14:45.42 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 02:14:46.89 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Commissioner Asad, we're deliberating right now, hold on. |
| 02:14:47.80 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 02:14:47.81 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 02:14:47.83 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 02:14:47.88 | Nastassya Saad | Yeah. |
| 02:14:48.00 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 02:14:48.03 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 02:14:48.05 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Bye. |
| 02:14:50.75 | Nastassya Saad | Is there a way since I think the rest of us, if I'm hearing correctly, we don't have an issue with the conditional use permit, we don't have an issue I don't even have an issue with the encroachment. If the sidewalk is being widened, it's the design review that I'm stuck on. Can we bifurcate these and give them the approvals on everything else that we're in line with and hold up on design review. I don't know if we can do that legally. |
| 02:15:14.59 | Kristina Feller | Let's ask our city attorney, Sergio Rudin, if he could join us here. Can we bifurcate the approvals this evening? |
| 02:15:23.52 | Mary Wagner | Yes, you can in theory. In practice, if you don't know what you might wanna do on the design review permit, and I will say the same, you know, concerns about time frames for action apply to all of the permits. If you don't know what you're going to end up doing with respect to the design permit and you're going to be changing the designs that has potential to impact the rest of the permits, so I would. you know, suggest caution in that respect in terms of bifurcating it. If you know that your actions are not going to impact the rest of the permits, then by all means. |
| 02:16:00.34 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 02:16:00.66 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:16:00.75 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:16:00.76 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:16:00.92 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:16:01.03 | Kristina Feller | Thank you for that. Um, so I would not recommend bifurcating. I think we should err on, on the cautious and not inadvertently be punitive to the applicant here by approving certain things that they might need to rethink. However, hopefully the applicant hears that we don't have any issues with that. at all and so that's not really the issue at hand. I think the issue are the awnings, the ropes with the stanchion area, What else I know that Commissioner Luxenberg has asked for the interior plan, even though that is a separate permit, we understand that. It's a point of reference to understand the functionality of the space. So, and then we have some issues with the trees and blocking the whole view quarter that we're trying to open up in the city. Yes, Director Hortor. You're on mute. You're on mute. |
| 02:17:11.54 | Dan (Staff) | I'm always on mute. There's one more thing, Madam Chair, that that was not discussed that I left open for discussion specifically was hours because I didn't find any consistent hours. |
| 02:17:13.07 | Unknown Commissioner | Thank you. |
| 02:17:13.17 | Robert Maxwell | There was |
| 02:17:23.08 | Dan (Staff) | for other uses in the downtown district for restaurants. So, It didn't mean that I was there. I'M SORRY. |
| 02:17:31.91 | Kristina Feller | I'm sorry, what is that Dan? |
| 02:17:35.13 | Dan (Staff) | that ours |
| 02:17:36.55 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 02:17:37.04 | Dan (Staff) | hours of operation and typically the kind of the average hours that I found were 11 a.m. 10 p.m. Sunday through Thursday and 11 a.m. to 11 p.m. Friday through Saturday. Those were kind of the average, but they were all over the place and I didn't want to |
| 02:17:46.66 | Robert Maxwell | were kind |
| 02:17:49.78 | Dan (Staff) | memorialize them without discussion by the planning commission and or the Jody Harris from Colton Park. |
| 02:17:56.69 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Well, we certainly need to get to the bottom of that. I would like to recommend that we continue this item until we get that information. And yes, Mr. Rex, I'm gonna ask you to come back up here because we wanna review the discussion and deliberation that we're having here and go over that with you and your client. Would anyone else entertain another action this evening? Okay. I MEAN, |
| 02:18:33.26 | Andrew Junius | I mean, I would certainly want to move this forward, but I see the other commissioners have, so I'm Uh, neutral. |
| 02:18:41.85 | Kristina Feller | Yeah. |
| 02:18:42.06 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:18:42.16 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:18:42.17 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:18:42.19 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Yeah, I think we all want to move this forward. I think we're in line in that way. We definitely want to see this built in and we know it's underway. Um, So thank you. |
| 02:18:54.80 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I know we're not going to bifurcate this, but for the sake of Mr. Rex, if he can comment on this, it's clear that we all accept that the new entrances would be the new entrance. We accept the window design that's been approved by the Historic Preservation Commission. Therefore, if we do continue this and they're moving ahead with construction, they at least know what that window, because they're not going to be constructing the outside now. I mean, that's going to come a little bit. So at least they'll know that we're not, we have to have an issue with the awning, but not with the window construction, which probably has a long lead time or something. |
| 02:19:35.01 | Kristina Feller | Fair point. And just for the record, Commissioner Luxembourg, I also have no issue with the signage. I know we haven't spoken about that a lot, but I actually like the signage and I like the font and I do like that. So I have no issue with that either. just for the record here. But I think the issue with regarding the awnings Again, you already have an approved awning. So you can, you have every opportunity, Mr. Rex, to move forward with the approved project as it stands. I recognize that Mr. Harris, the exterior has to work with the interior and vice versa, but I wanted to give you the opportunity to comment on what you're hearing from the commission this evening and what your thoughts might be. |
| 02:20:27.51 | Michael Rex | Yes, thank you. Um, This is such a time sensitive project. We can get a vote tonight that would be most helpful. The delay associated with coming back and the uncertainty I do greatly appreciate that we're okay with the building facade and lighting and signage But at the same time, I think Mr. Harris needs to know, Is he getting what he needs for this restaurant to be successful? And what I'm hearing is there's question about number of seats, the two street trees, the metal canopy and the stanchions, the rope and chain, and I'll very quickly respond to each one of them, okay? On the, I wanna, in terms of number of seats, you can see my drawing here. |
| 02:21:18.37 | Kristina Feller | Yes. |
| 02:21:18.91 | Michael Rex | Yeah, the additional seating is not at the corner. We purposely held it back there and by widening the sidewalk all the way to the bridgeway, we're actually creating a significant larger sidewalk for circulation around this building. And I don't think the additional seating in any way or encroaches into that circulation. In fact, it's outside of it. the in terms of the canopies we the purpose we suggested black is because we have a wrought iron and we thought and typically you see wrought iron in black and we thought that was we went to wrought iron because it's consistent with historic character However, it doesn't have to be black. If you don't like the color, we're perfectly willing to change the color to something lighter. And I could even, if we get it down to that, I'm happy to come back and show you a color. It could be a condition of approval. We return with a color palette. but I don't think we're prepared to go back to Canvas hauntings. I, I hate to play tug of war with you, but at the same time, we feel that the canvas hauntings that's not the case. just aren't gonna last and be appropriate, partly because they have to extend out so far. An awning that doesn't extend very far is pretty easy to support, but Mr. Harris feels that the canopy needs to go all the way out to the end. And to do that, those columns are necessary, but I specifically chose very narrow columns, very lightweight and handsome looking ones, because I too did not want something heavy out there. So we ask that you reconsider the concern about the metal with the understanding we'd come back with a much lighter color. The same is true for the stanchions. If you don't like the stanchions with the Swiaka chain, you can easily replace them with a panel. In fact, I had considered lattice, a lattice panel that would be similar to the awning. And that's probably what we propose. That's an easy change we're willing to make. And if you make that a conditional approval, we can maybe move on and get the project approved tonight. The street trees, the two street trees, we'd like to keep in. we're asking that you reconsider that and allow us to have these two tree trees. When they grow taller, they're not gonna block use. Okay, and I think actually what they do help is relate to the column supporting the canopy. They're all in the same alignment. So they're certainly not adding any obstruction out there. And they're all up and down the street of Ridgeway It seems there's a great benefit, we think anyway, to carry the continuity on Bridgeway around the corner, because it's all about the corner entry. And that's why we think it's important I conclude that I ask that you defer to the project architect We've given this a great deal of thought and none of these ideas that we propose are standalone. It's all part of a link together for a very cohesive design but the color of the canopy we can change easily. We're willing to do that. We need those seats and we need to be able to and we can certainly change the stanchions to something more fixed and permanent Thank you. And we ask that you consider those changes and approve the project tonight with those changes. Thank you. |
| 02:25:04.19 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Thank you for that. Um, Okay. I, you haven't really addressed the view corridor that we're trying to, open up, which is the view not down Bridgeway, but down El Portal to a major So, that we're trying to celebrate more than has been in the past. So again, that hasn't really been addressed here. And I'd like to understand you know, regarding these metal awnings, which really have no place and no context in that area. if this wisteria or whatever your thinking of growing on it is a requirement of that metal line. |
| 02:25:51.15 | Michael Rex | No, if you think the vines would, and they are hard to regulate. because, you know, they take regular maintenance. We're willing to remove the vines. That's fine. And as far as view corridor, I fully understand you're talking about the view looking down out for town of the bay. And I did respond to that because the awnings are well above your head by a condition of approval in your packet. you'll be looking directly under them. and the columns and trees will align and I think reasonably thin. So frankly, I think it frames the view. I don't think what we're proposing blocks would be. |
| 02:26:33.17 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:26:33.19 | Kristina Feller | But you do have approved awnings already for this project. They are approved. Are you not Are they not? You don't want them at all? You don't want the canvas at all? |
| 02:26:46.82 | Michael Rex | We'd like metal awnings. not canvas on it. |
| 02:26:50.92 | Kristina Feller | Sure, I know that that's what we- |
| 02:26:51.85 | Michael Rex | Yeah, we need the call. |
| 02:26:53.18 | Kristina Feller | Canvith awnings is not going to make or break your project or some financial outcome for the project to pencil out, right? |
| 02:27:04.24 | Michael Rex | Um, We think they're appropriate. We think with the heaters it's safer. We think they'll look better over a long period of time because we've seen what happens with awnings downtown. Within three or four years, they start looking tattered. And there's lots of examples of that. Cultivar is looking for a very quality, long lasting Um, operation. And I think the lattice gives it a garden quality Um, The last thing is, is the metal allows the awnings to extend all the way out. get an awning to come all the way out to cover the entire outdoor dining without any support. they would probably be a bit uh, leggy and, um, difficult to support. Originally we proposed retractable awnings. When we found out they cost $10,000 a piece, that became a problem. but in a win, they retract. If they have to be permanently fixed and extend that far, I think they too will start looking kind of heavy to say with the superstructure and support them. Again, I, I, Appeal to you, we've given this a great deal of thought. Um, and, um, um, but they certainly don't have to be black. Uh, I'm happy to lighten the color. and happy to replace the stanchions with panels. |
| 02:28:28.24 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:28:29.12 | Michael Rex | Thank you. |
| 02:28:29.14 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Chair Feller, Mr. Rex brought up a plan a minute ago. If he could bring that back up, I have a question that relates to the trees and whatever, cause now I'm re-looking at this. The red line that you show is the current, that's the current curve, right? That's the plan from the previous- The red line is what you approved previously. But where those 16 tables are 16 seats are the line that goes through there is the current sidewalk is that correct um yes okay so if you look at from what the current sidewalk is that red line is to the building where the tables are and you look at the five foot extension where you're actually narrowing that sidewalk there. So as you come around the corner, I realized that the corner part is bigger, but the where between the tables and the street, it's only going to be five feet. Right now, it looks like it's maybe eight feet or seven feet. And so they, you know, that's where there are a lot of people, especially on a weekend in Sausalito and that's going to narrow. So, I mean, there is the question of whether if there are to be tables there, whether one, we need the trees, which obviously here has been raised but also should we only have the, the, the four, the eight seats against the building? Should that be a little bit narrower? Cause that's where the people will come around that corner. So I sort of throw that out there. Cause you said that you have as much sidewalk there as we do now, and that's just not correct. |
| 02:28:48.58 | Michael Rex | God bless. |
| 02:30:04.65 | Michael Rex | If, If we could get a vote tonight, we could reduce the number of seating at that corner. and wind the sidewalk at that area. Um, uh, We could certainly do that. |
| 02:30:22.69 | Kristina Feller | Any other questions, Commissioner Luxenberg? We do need to vote. |
| 02:30:24.90 | Jeffery Luxenberg | No, I understand. I just wanted to raise that because he put that drawing back up and I wanted to correct that. |
| 02:30:32.00 | Kristina Feller | Okay. So let's stop sharing screen for just a moment. Yeah, sorry. Commissioner Saad, you had had some concerns as well. Anything you've heard, and again, we'd like to be brief here, anything you've heard change or impact how you're looking at this application? |
| 02:30:35.80 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yeah. |
| 02:30:36.04 | Michael Rex | Sorry. |
| 02:30:51.02 | Nastassya Saad | I can live with the trees. I'm unclear on who is required to maintain them. But I can concede on the trees. I still think that the fabric awnings, I still prefer them. |
| 02:31:06.11 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. All right. All right, any other comments just by show of hand of any commissioner? Yes, Commissioner Grass. |
| 02:31:15.20 | Richard Graef | Thank you. I think I Thank you. I can vote to approve the project with the conditions that we just discussed with Michael. that being the color of the steel awning. they are treatment of the barrier around the seating up towards Bridgeway. Um... Uh... Also, I... I would support reducing that seating somewhat. because I concur with Commissioner Luxenberg, feeling that coming around the corner there, that's a It really does stick out. So if that seating can be reduced a bit, Um, and the colors lightened up on the, There you go. canopies or other shelters. I'm good to go. um, I think this project has so many merits that are Um, you know with a few adjustments here Um, we've got a A good project. Um, Yeah, I would support it with those conditions. |
| 02:32:40.25 | Unknown Commissioner | Commissioner Luxenberg? Your thoughts on that? |
| 02:32:43.02 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I could support her with taking off the second row of tables, moving the trees closer to the building. If we're going to keep the trees, I'm okay with a lighter version of the awning. I still want to see this plan. I'm really, I mean, we sit here and we try to do this when we don't have the right information. We always feel like we're under the gun and I would rather, you know, the staff get this stuff to us, you know, ask these questions so that we're not sitting here trying to do this for two hours at night. So I'm just frustrated about that. I mean, I want this to go through tonight, but also we're going to approve it. And then we're not going to see the plans and then it's not going to be bolt right. And then we're going to come back again. |
| 02:33:08.87 | Jeffery Luxenberg | All right. |
| 02:33:25.33 | Jeffery Luxenberg | So I don't know how to solve that. Well, I don't want to hold it up. |
| 02:33:27.88 | Kristina Feller | Well, I don't want to hold it up. we have the option to continue to another date that's that's the option if you don't have the information |
| 02:33:32.60 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I think. |
| 02:33:36.36 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I mean, if I were to recommend to continue this to another day that I would want them in the next couple of days to address these issues, get it right back to us along with this plan that they have that they didn't submit. And so it goes on the next agenda. So we're not dragging this out, but, and I know the timeline is fast to do that, but I don't want to drag it out, but I want to continue it. I'd want it to be right on the next meeting. |
| 02:33:52.29 | Jody Harris (Tenant) | Thank you. |
| 02:34:01.19 | Kristina Feller | So I'd like to refine what Commissioner Graff had mentioned. You know, I don't support these metal awnings at all. However, THIS PROJECT NEEDS TO GET BUILT. I would require absolutely no foliage on them whatsoever. The foliage is obviously more flammable than canvas. So that whole argument about heaters and canvas don't work for me since they seem to work at every other restaurant in the Pasolito. However, you know, to me, I think we still need to work on the color. Maybe without all this foliage on it, it will make more sense to match the window mullions. I don't know. but I'm not going to get hung up on color at the moment. I defer and give my proxy to Commissioner Graff who has such a better eye at this than me for sure. I would request the reduction of the seating, the umbrella seating, if that is what the commissioners want. I'm not hung up on that, but I think that that's a condition that we should agree to since two of us are definitely uneasy and maybe two and a half of us are uneasy about it. But I would require that those trees be removed. It is completely... they will completely block the upstairs hotel, not to mention the view quarter that we so desperately want and we're trying to create and preserve. So this project, unfortunately, is working a little bit counter to that inadvertently, but that's why we have to strike a balance here. As it relates to signage, I'm fine. As it relates to the changes in the doorway and the windows, all that business, I'm absolutely fine. But, And then again, I wanna tighten up, Dan, the conditions of approval and I'd like to review them. as a draft with one other commissioner to make sure that they are reflective of what we are talking about this evening. If we do indeed approve this, which I don't know that we will, we have to take a vote here, but we seem to be getting slightly closer to that. So any other comments from commissioners at this time? Any other additions? CHANGES. |
| 02:36:35.68 | Kristina Feller | Nope, anyone wanna make a motion? |
| 02:36:41.50 | Kristina Feller | Okay, I'll make a motion. Yes, for sure. There's your graph, go for it. |
| 02:36:46.26 | Richard Graef | Oh, okay. Well, I... move that we approve the El Portal project, whatever. number that is. Um, subject to the conditions that we discussed. That being number one, the lightening the color of the metal canopy. Uh, Um... reducing the number of seats up at the corner by Bridgeway. Um, Um, another solution to the barrier there, which might be more in line with the metal canopy Um, through trees. Bye. I guess if that seating is reduced, that might kind of like and trade. concept. So I wouldn't miss the trees terribly. Although I would like to say that that view corridor, you know, people move and it's not just one. corridor view. |
| 02:38:01.03 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. I know, but we're not. |
| 02:38:02.55 | Richard Graef | I think. I don't think these things are really going to block all that much. But anyway, did I miss anything? |
| 02:38:11.31 | Kristina Feller | So we've got the metal canopy color. We have no vegetation. |
| 02:38:17.48 | Richard Graef | Uh-oh. |
| 02:38:17.92 | Kristina Feller | Yeah. |
| 02:38:18.04 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 02:38:18.28 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:38:18.33 | Kristina Feller | on the canopy. We have the reduction of seating and I'm referring to it as umbrella seating. |
| 02:38:20.35 | Unknown | Right? |
| 02:38:20.83 | Jody Harris (Tenant) | Thank you. |
| 02:38:20.84 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:38:20.86 | Jody Harris (Tenant) | Bye. |
| 02:38:25.25 | Jody Harris (Tenant) | Okay. |
| 02:38:25.58 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:38:25.62 | Jody Harris (Tenant) | Thank you. |
| 02:38:27.24 | Kristina Feller | Right. Remove of the removal of the tree, those two trees on El Porto at the umbrella seating. And then we need to have some kind of a buffer barrier at the umbrella seating that's different than the stanchion and I'm calling the velvet rope or chain or whatever you want to call it. Um, I think we had previously discussed the condition to ensure that there is consistently a minimum of five foot clear Thank you. at the sidewalk. for all this outdoor seating. We've also discussed the lighting from HPC to make sure that the scalloped lighting area is put back to its originally intended lighting design there. The signage is okay. There are a couple conditions of approval that Commissioner Luxembourg mentioned early on. Number seven, number 10, number 21A, Um, that We need to get cleaned up, Dan, once this is... |
| 02:39:41.22 | Jeffery Luxenberg | isn't it? Dan sent me an email with 10, but it still needs to be revised. So if we can put in something that we can check these conditions after the 5th. |
| 02:39:49.98 | Kristina Feller | Bye. Well, I just, I agree. |
| 02:39:54.14 | Mary Wagner | That's not possible. We need to have the actual conditions stated on the record. and We don't actually have to see them written out, but someone needs to at least read them out onto the record so that it's clear what it's being voted on. |
| 02:40:08.67 | Kristina Feller | Sure. I think the point of wanting to see them is we do articulate exactly what they should be, and they don't show up correctly. by staff, so that's why we're asking to see them to make sure that they're reflecting and you, you, you know, Sergio, if you can help ensure that they're reflective of what it is we're approving or conditioning, that would be really helpful. So to be clear, the reduction of seating at the umbrella seating, we are reducing it to, we're reducing it by eight. Is that correct? Yeah, okay, by eight seats. So we're taking out the road closest to the street. We're removing those two trees. |
| 02:40:50.54 | Richard Graef | Chair Fowler. |
| 02:40:53.02 | Kristina Feller | Yes. |
| 02:40:54.05 | Richard Graef | We said we were removing eight seats. I could see a situation where |
| 02:40:54.12 | Kristina Feller | All right. |
| 02:41:02.49 | Richard Graef | you might remove the outer corner table and just have it and keep three tables and that might work perfectly well. to laugh. |
| 02:41:13.37 | Kristina Feller | Again, we've deliberated this. If you want to make the motion, make the motion. We've got to move on here and we have to be clear. We're over and a half late for our regular meeting. |
| 02:41:22.01 | Unknown | I got it. |
| 02:41:25.13 | Kristina Feller | So we're getting close to something that might be approved here. It might not be exactly what everybody wants. But if you have something you want to put on record, put it on record now. We've got to move on. |
| 02:41:39.63 | Richard Graef | Oh, okay. |
| 02:41:49.92 | Richard Graef | Let's just let it go. As we said, we'll reduce it by half. |
| 02:41:58.04 | Mary Wagner | and chair. I'd like to separately call the commission's attention to a typographical error in section two of the resolution, the planning commission actually has the authority to approve the conditional use permit. There's a separate permit and approval required by the council. So where it says the planning commission recommends city council approval of conditional use permit, I think it should say the planning commission approves the conditional use permit approves the conditional use permit and recommends to the city council approval of alcohol sales to the expanded restaurant. |
| 02:42:32.35 | Kristina Feller | I'll accept that. |
| 02:42:33.59 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 02:42:33.61 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Which number is the? |
| 02:42:35.57 | Mary Wagner | Section two of the resolution. second page of the document. |
| 02:42:41.02 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:42:41.07 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:42:41.12 | Kristina Feller | OK. |
| 02:42:43.20 | Mary Wagner | Yes. |
| 02:42:43.89 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. I know commissioner Saad, you had your hand raised as well. |
| 02:42:48.01 | Nastassya Saad | I need the clarification on our reduction of seats. I'm clear now. |
| 02:42:51.80 | Kristina Feller | Okay, very good. Okay, are there any, Michael, we're in the middle of the motion here. |
| 02:42:57.32 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Chair Feller, I would also like a copy of the, the, Interior plan attached to the approval of the condition we use permit for the seats on the outside because I think there's a nexus between the two. I understand that there'll be a separate building permit, but I want that in the condition. |
| 02:43:17.74 | Kristina Feller | Fair point. Dan, can you ensure that is on the condition of approval as well? And if Sergio, you can help confirm that before it's put on the, in writing on the record. |
| 02:43:24.47 | Unknown | No. |
| 02:43:31.48 | Kristina Feller | Okay, any other items? Commission. |
| 02:43:34.67 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I have this number 10 that Dan sent me, which has the same issue that Sergio just raised. So Dan, can you send that to Sergio? Can he look at it real quickly and correct the wording? |
| 02:43:47.51 | Kristina Feller | Okay, we're in the middle of a motion, so we need to get it corrected now, and then we're gonna take over. |
| 02:43:52.40 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Okay, I can read it and then Sergio can fix it, but I thought if you could see it on paper, it's the same issue he just raised. |
| 02:44:01.53 | Mary Wagner | And I would recommend that we change condition of approval number 10 to say instead of unless it is expressly authorized by the planning commission, just as have it say, unless it is expressly authorized by the city council through the issuance of an encroachment permit and a type, so ABC authorizes a type of data. the type 47 alcohol beverage control license. So I don't think we need that section of it. |
| 02:44:27.01 | Jeffery Luxenberg | So what would it say? |
| 02:44:28.02 | Mary Wagner | Yeah. Um... unless it is expressly authorized by the city council through the issuance of an encroachment |
| 02:44:37.52 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 02:44:38.52 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Wait, Bob, I don't know where you start. go back a few, half a sentence. So I know where that's going. |
| 02:44:47.28 | Mary Wagner | So it would say, And let me just pull up the city code provision really quickly. Um, Pursuant to table 1044-2, a conditional use permit is required for establishment serving any alcoholic beverage for consumption on the premises. This approval does not authorize any alcohol service outdoors at the subject site, unless it is expressly authorized by the city council under an encroachment permit pursuant to Sausalito Municipal Code 1324010. |
| 02:45:16.61 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Okay, that's what I was looking for. |
| 02:45:17.98 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 02:45:18.21 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 02:45:18.65 | Kristina Feller | Great, thank you. And then just specific, Michael, we're in the middle of a motion. So we, please hold on. The metal canopy color, I'd like to suggest that the applicant work with Commissioner Graff and Commissioner Saad, if you are both willing, as a subcommittee just to work directly with the applicant on that. on the color. Commissioner Luxenberg and Vice Chair Junius, you're okay with that? |
| 02:45:43.67 | Unknown | Sure. |
| 02:45:48.05 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, excellent idea. |
| 02:45:48.08 | Unknown | Yes, excellent idea. |
| 02:45:49.70 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Very good. Any other amendments, additions? Edits. Yes, Dan. |
| 02:45:57.58 | Dan (Staff) | timing hours of operation. for the CEP. |
| 02:46:02.25 | Kristina Feller | Okay. This is attached to a hotel. Why would it not be the same as sort of the Poggio situation attached to a hotel? |
| 02:46:10.24 | Dan (Staff) | I looked at several different examples and found several different hours. So I didn't know which one to put in. I thought it would be pertinent to... |
| 02:46:17.63 | Kristina Feller | Can you review what Poggio has? |
| 02:46:17.88 | Dan (Staff) | with the- I don't recall if I looked at Pojo exactly. I looked at several. I don't, I looked at several, I don't remember. I just looked at C and P's. |
| 02:46:29.56 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Can we do that on a consent calendar item, Sergio? |
| 02:46:38.17 | Mary Wagner | Um, You mean, and add an additional condition of approval with respect to the hours of operation to this conditional use permit afterwards? |
| 02:46:48.75 | Kristina Feller | just confirm the hours of operation through consent calendar rather than a hearing, since we don't have the information from staff. |
| 02:46:59.56 | Mary Wagner | Um, I would suggest perhaps asking the applicant if they have proposed hours and then Because I just don't see how you wouldn't need to deliberate this issue. So it seems a little strange to put it on the consent calendar. |
| 02:47:14.40 | Kristina Feller | Well, just cause we don't know what it is and what it's proposed. So Dan, do you have any information from the applicant? |
| 02:47:20.71 | Dan (Staff) | I know. Sample information from kind of averages from the other CUPs that I found |
| 02:47:28.22 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Mr. Harris, if you can hear us and you can unmute, do you have, are there hours of operation for your business that you are proposing? |
| 02:47:38.19 | Jody Harris (Tenant) | We're proposing to do breakfast, lunch and dinner is our plan. Um, |
| 02:47:43.30 | Kristina Feller | Um, |
| 02:47:43.56 | Nathan Gray | Um, |
| 02:47:44.30 | Jody Harris (Tenant) | The maximum hours would probably be 6 a.m. to midnight every day, unless there's a problem with that. |
| 02:47:52.90 | Andrew Junius | I would be supportive of that. |
| 02:47:56.51 | Jody Harris (Tenant) | We want to do coffee and breakfast and brunch on the weekends. We want to be open a lot. We really do. |
| 02:48:01.98 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Makes sense. Well, that's, you know, You know, music to everyone's ears here for sure. Thank you for that. Um, Dan, I think you need to confirm the midnight. Not that I'm against midnight, but I don't know that any of the businesses are to midnight down there. |
| 02:48:22.17 | Jody Harris (Tenant) | 11 is fine if you wanna make it, or 1130 would be fine if midnight is something that bothers you. |
| 02:48:28.22 | Kristina Feller | So Dan. Thank you. Thank you. |
| 02:48:30.69 | Dan (Staff) | I can check. I can check. |
| 02:48:33.50 | Kristina Feller | Well, I have no problem with 6am. I'm just looking for reactions from the commission. I don't think anyone has a problem with that. I think most of the businesses close by 11. Yes, Vice Chair Junius. |
| 02:48:46.97 | Andrew Junius | I really want to belabor the point. I'm just really curious. I haven't come across an hours of operation for business in Sausalito yet, If it's if we don't even have a rule, I would defer to the applicant if they'd like to stay up until midnight. I don't see a problem with that. I mean, I think honestly, there's a lot of, energy statewide. Not that Sausalito was like a huge party town, but you know, later hours actually do give an operator, you know, an enormous amount of flexibility and, I just think it's a good idea to give them as much as they like within reason. And I think midnight's fine for me, so. Thanks. |
| 02:49:20.27 | Kristina Feller | OKAY. United Ed. |
| 02:49:22.24 | Dan (Staff) | Thank you. |
| 02:49:22.24 | Kristina Feller | So Dan, can you put that in the conditions of approval? |
| 02:49:22.26 | Andrew Junius | Thank you. |
| 02:49:22.27 | Dan (Staff) | So, |
| 02:49:26.10 | Dan (Staff) | for 6 a.m. to midnight. |
| 02:49:27.74 | Kristina Feller | Yes. |
| 02:49:28.87 | Dan (Staff) | Okay, thank you. |
| 02:49:30.37 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 02:49:30.69 | Nastassya Saad | Sorry, quick clarification. Is that including the outdoor dining? Couldn't that be there? Are apartments right across the street? There's the hotel. I mean, midnight on outdoor dining seems... I have a problem with it. I don't want to limit them to 8, 8 PM, but I think slightly earlier cause they have a big outdoor space as we're proposing right now. And I, there are surrounding There are neighbors across the street. There's the hotel. |
| 02:50:01.90 | Kristina Feller | WHAT IS YOUR PROPOSAL, COMMISSIONER? I MEAN, I... WHAT IS YOUR PROPOSAL? |
| 02:50:03.84 | Nastassya Saad | I mean, I would at least 11 p.m. or 10 p.m. |
| 02:50:09.68 | Andrew Junius | 11 p.m. outdoor clothes, midnight indoor clothes. That sounds fine. |
| 02:50:13.27 | Nastassya Saad | Something like that, yeah. Something to have a differentiation between outdoor and indoor. Thank you. |
| 02:50:17.78 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 02:50:18.23 | Nastassya Saad | so don't limit them too much. |
| 02:50:18.28 | Kristina Feller | so don't limit them too much. 11 PM outdoor, 12 midnight indoor. |
| 02:50:22.96 | Nastassya Saad | And that's it. |
| 02:50:23.02 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:50:23.06 | Nastassya Saad | you |
| 02:50:23.29 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:50:24.53 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 02:50:24.58 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:50:24.69 | Kristina Feller | Okay. All right. All right, so we have a motion on, Mr. Rex, we're in the middle of making a motion here, hold on. I know you're raising your hand, but please hold on. Any other additions or amendments from any of the commissioners? And Dan, any other information that you're unclear of that you need from us? |
| 02:50:47.56 | Dan (Staff) | Oh, you addressed my only other question about the barrier. |
| 02:50:51.19 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:50:51.20 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 02:50:51.64 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:50:52.69 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 02:50:52.96 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Chair caller, what was the resolution on the tree dinner |
| 02:50:57.30 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:50:57.31 | Jeffery Luxenberg | No way. |
| 02:50:57.33 | Kristina Feller | I have them listed as out. |
| 02:50:59.81 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Okay. If there's an amendment, |
| 02:51:00.01 | Kristina Feller | If there's an amendment, now's the time to say. |
| 02:51:03.19 | Jeffery Luxenberg | No, no, I just want, we've gone around so many circles, I just wanted to know whether they were. |
| 02:51:07.74 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, okay. Okay, which makes sense is where we reduce the seating. Okay. Thank you. So Commissioner Graff has a motion Thank you. Thank you. On the floor, is there a second? |
| 02:51:25.17 | Michael Rex | Thank you. |
| 02:51:25.19 | Unknown | Bye. |
| 02:51:25.21 | Kristina Feller | Okay, Dan, can you please take roll call? |
| 02:51:27.92 | Michael Rex | Wait, before you vote, point of order. |
| 02:51:31.96 | Kristina Feller | Plain of water. |
| 02:51:31.98 | Michael Rex | Yes. Before you vote. |
| 02:51:35.40 | Kristina Feller | Yes, Mr. Rex. |
| 02:51:36.62 | Michael Rex | Thank you. It is customary that when on the DSU proposed changes to a project and conditions associated with those changes, Thank you. they ask the applicant if they find them acceptable because the applicant has a right to have a vote up or down if they don't find those conditions acceptable. And that really should be standard policy if I may be so bold to point out And |
| 02:52:01.59 | Kristina Feller | You may feel bold, but we've asked you about these conditions with the exception of working hours, which we had left out. We had talked about issues about canopy and seating and barriers and buffers. So there's nothing new here. |
| 02:52:15.68 | Michael Rex | I've never heard the motion until it's just been stated. Okay. And I think when a motion is made that proposes changes- |
| 02:52:22.53 | Unknown Commissioner | Would you like to comment on the motion? |
| 02:52:24.98 | Michael Rex | I would like to comment on the conditions. Do we find them acceptable or not? I think you would like to know that. because if we don't, we have a right to a vote. Okay. That's... That's how it's always been done and should be done. If you want good design, all right? I've been doing this for 40 years in town. |
| 02:52:42.67 | Kristina Feller | Would you like to comment on our motion or not? |
| 02:52:45.95 | Michael Rex | Yes, I do. Thank you. I'll make it brief. I really appreciate your hard work here. We find all the proposed conditions acceptable with the exception of one. And that's the elimination of the two trees. We ask that you remove that from the conditions and allow them to stay. However, we'll pull them back a little bit when we pull the seating back at that corner. Other than that, all the conditions are fine and we'll have a successful project. But I think this trees are a major element that help wrap the concept around the corner. And I wouldn't make an issue of it if I didn't think it's important. And again, I ask you to confirm to defer to your project architect. Thank you. |
| 02:53:29.39 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Okay, we have a motion on the floor. Is there any other motion that anyone would like to make? |
| 02:53:39.04 | Kristina Feller | Seeing yes, Commissioner Brown. |
| 02:53:41.34 | Richard Graef | I'm not sure what protocol is here, but I think Michael makes a strong point there. Uh, Frankly, been kind of going along with omitting the trees, because that seems to be the consensus. I personally, Thank you, please. could stay there. If the motion If that's what everybody wants in the motion, then that's what will Vote on. |
| 02:54:11.34 | Kristina Feller | Well, there's a motion on the floor. There's a second for your motion. We can offer another motion or you can amend your motion. Not every, you know, not, not every vote's a 5-0 vote. So. Thank you. We need to. |
| 02:54:25.43 | Unknown | to be able to get the |
| 02:54:25.45 | Richard Graef | All right. |
| 02:54:26.28 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 02:54:27.24 | Kristina Feller | I would like to. |
| 02:54:27.34 | Richard Graef | I would like to amend the motion to Uh, to not eliminate the tree. |
| 02:54:35.66 | Andrew Junius | I'll still second that motion. And I support the retention of the trees as well. |
| 02:54:40.00 | Kristina Feller | But hold on a minute. Where are they located? |
| 02:54:44.08 | Jeffery Luxenberg | That was what I was going to ask. I think the trees need to be inside of that previous red line at least, but it isn't very important where the trees are because that's going to define how wide the sidewalk is. So we need to know exactly where the trees are going to go. |
| 02:55:00.74 | Kristina Feller | Right, and remember this is in contravention to the goal of opening up the new corridor. If you want to... We've got to take a vote here. We have got to move on. If we do not take a vote now, I will continue this hearing to a date uncertain. So please tell me to be clear where you are proposing the trees Are there two? Is there one? How many are there and where are they located? |
| 02:55:27.20 | Michael Rex | I propose moving them back to- No, no, no. |
| 02:55:29.10 | Kristina Feller | No, no, no. I'm asking Commissioner Graff. |
| 02:55:35.58 | Richard Graef | Well, without saying a revised which is problematic. Um, I, I, I would only Except Michael's response that he would moves them back in. accordingly with the change. We're not going to change because we're really maybe not going to continue this. If we continue this, we'll see that change. but, um, I'm confident that that Mr. Rexwood. manage that change appropriately. |
| 02:56:20.47 | Kristina Feller | Well, I don't think that's appropriate for our motion. We can't just say they'll manage it. This isn't, this isn't a, |
| 02:56:24.74 | Kristina Feller | and then, |
| 02:56:26.39 | Unknown | This is the first time. |
| 02:56:26.43 | Kristina Feller | This is a... |
| 02:56:27.54 | Unknown | I'm sorry. |
| 02:56:28.27 | Kristina Feller | This is the city right of way. This isn't on private land. This is on the city right of way. It requires, you know, our approval and encroachment. Yes, Director Horturch. |
| 02:56:34.48 | Dan (Staff) | Sure. |
| 02:56:39.07 | Dan (Staff) | One point of order. So the staff will review this per the conditions of approval. So if that tree is required to move in, That is part of our review when they come in for building permits. Planning still reviews it prior to building permit issuance. |
| 02:56:54.71 | Kristina Feller | so we can allow it to be done ministerially. |
| 02:56:58.62 | Dan (Staff) | If you decide to move the tree in more in line with the additional seeding that's no longer there, then that's what we would approve it. And that's what we would review it for. |
| 02:57:09.53 | Kristina Feller | So Commissioner Graff, do you want to align it with the seating? |
| 02:57:14.74 | Richard Graef | I'm not sure what is meant by that exactly, but, um, |
| 02:57:20.93 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Chair Feller, can we ask Mr. Rex where he was suggesting the trees go just so we know where he's suggesting, because if we can agree with that, then this conversation is moving. |
| 02:57:30.26 | Kristina Feller | This conversation is moving. But that's why I'm trying to get Commissioner Graff to tell us what he's asking. |
| 02:57:36.05 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I think he wants to know Mr. Rex and Tom Don Westby. |
| 02:57:37.98 | Kristina Feller | So we're all clear. Thank you. |
| 02:57:39.23 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 02:57:39.24 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:57:39.26 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 02:57:40.15 | Richard Graef | Yeah, I'm not the designer. Mr. Rex is the designer, so he knows how to fix |
| 02:57:48.05 | Jeffery Luxenberg | So I would like to hear Mr. Rex's opinion at least at this point. you |
| 02:57:56.64 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 02:57:56.74 | Richard Graef | Nuted. |
| 02:57:57.45 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 02:57:59.10 | Richard Graef | You're muted. |
| 02:57:59.81 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Mr. Rocks, you're muted. |
| 02:58:04.96 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I'm sorry. |
| 02:58:04.99 | Michael Rex | Sorry, I concur with Commissioner Junius' suggestion that they pull back to the original curb line, like all the other street trees. along the bridgeway. then that's a specific location you can count on. so we don't narrow the sidewalk. we'll wind the sidewalk, but we won't narrow the circulation path. |
| 02:58:30.98 | Kristina Feller | I'M NOT SURE WHAT THAT MEANS. WHAT DO YOU MEAN? |
| 02:58:32.45 | Michael Rex | Oh. I could. |
| 02:58:35.42 | Kristina Feller | I could share- |
| 02:58:36.87 | Michael Rex | I can show you very, very easily here. Thank you for your patience, Cher. This red dotted line is where the sidewalk is now. These trees would move back as if we didn't wind the sidewalk, they'd move back to that line. |
| 02:58:37.21 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 02:58:54.79 | Kristina Feller | So the great would be behind that line. |
| 02:58:57.54 | Michael Rex | That's correct. |
| 02:58:57.97 | Jeffery Luxenberg | All right. |
| 02:58:58.22 | Michael Rex | Thank you. |
| 02:58:58.27 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. I think that's a good solution at the moment. |
| 02:59:03.28 | Kristina Feller | Commissioner Saad, you had your hand raised. |
| 02:59:06.20 | Nastassya Saad | Not on trees, I'll let you guys finish this. |
| 02:59:08.26 | Kristina Feller | Okay. All right, so we still have an active motion here, everybody. It's probably the longest in history. |
| 02:59:19.16 | Kristina Feller | Commissioner Graff. that satisfy your Thank you. modification to your motion. |
| 02:59:26.48 | Richard Graef | You bet. Yes, sir. |
| 02:59:28.49 | Kristina Feller | Commissioner Saad. |
| 02:59:30.04 | Nastassya Saad | I'd like to make an addendum to the motion. |
| 02:59:33.23 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 02:59:33.81 | Nastassya Saad | on the hours of operation. I am concerned because it's the one area it's going to be the, latest restaurant in town, which is fine, but it is, there is residential across the street. Everybody else closes between nine and 10 PM. I'd like to propose 10 p.m. for outside dining. and then indoor dining can continue to 11 p.m. |
| 02:59:57.25 | Unknown | Wow. |
| 02:59:59.02 | Nastassya Saad | or midnight if that, but I'm concerned about the outdoor dining going past 10 p.m. |
| 03:00:06.36 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:00:06.38 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 03:00:06.76 | Nastassya Saad | If anyone's on the medical, it's about it. |
| 03:00:06.82 | Andrew Junius | I'd be curious if Mr. Harris has a comment there, but I mean, indoor dining to midnight still sounds like a pretty good deal. |
| 03:00:18.36 | Jody Harris (Tenant) | Um, could, could, could we, you're proposing 10 I'm we're at 11. We just make it 10 30. Does that work? Let's negotiate 10 thirds. |
| 03:00:27.10 | Kristina Feller | but we're proposing 10 outdoors. |
| 03:00:29.48 | Jody Harris (Tenant) | I see. |
| 03:00:29.80 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 03:00:30.05 | Jody Harris (Tenant) | Thank you. |
| 03:00:30.17 | Jody Harris (Tenant) | like. Yeah, and midnight indoors, 1030 for the patio, midnight for indoors would be fine. |
| 03:00:31.40 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 03:00:38.59 | Jody Harris (Tenant) | seems reasonable. |
| 03:00:41.63 | Kristina Feller | Commissioner Saad, THIS IS YOUR AMENDMENT. |
| 03:00:44.41 | Nastassya Saad | you know what um |
| 03:00:44.45 | Kristina Feller | Yeah. |
| 03:00:47.30 | Nastassya Saad | 1030 is fine. for outdoor. Please cap it at 1030. |
| 03:00:53.76 | Andrew Junius | Great. |
| 03:00:54.45 | Nastassya Saad | We do have a noise ordinance just as an FYI in town, so. be mindful of that. |
| 03:01:01.14 | Jody Harris (Tenant) | Yeah, absolutely. We have no problem with that. |
| 03:01:06.08 | Kristina Feller | Okay. So Dan, do you have this amendment? |
| 03:01:09.52 | Dan (Staff) | I would like to read it back to you prior to any votes. |
| 03:01:13.25 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Bye. |
| 03:01:13.98 | Dan (Staff) | Yeah. |
| 03:01:14.08 | Kristina Feller | Are there any other comments then from any other commissioner, any amendments, any edits? Okay. Let's go. |
| 03:01:23.21 | Dan (Staff) | Okay. |
| 03:01:23.23 | Kristina Feller | I'm sorry. FOR IT. |
| 03:01:24.83 | Dan (Staff) | So number one, lightening the color of the metal canopy. |
| 03:01:28.94 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 03:01:29.05 | Dan (Staff) | Number two, reducing the seating around the umbrellas by half, taking away eight of those seats, two of those tables. |
| 03:01:29.06 | Kristina Feller | I'm going to go. |
| 03:01:37.26 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:01:37.28 | Kristina Feller | Mm-hmm. |
| 03:01:37.91 | Dan (Staff) | proposing the new barrier, not the stanchion and rope or chain. Moving the trees in. |
| 03:01:46.07 | Kristina Feller | TREASMENT. |
| 03:01:46.87 | Dan (Staff) | Thank you. |
| 03:01:46.92 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 03:01:46.93 | Dan (Staff) | Thank you. |
| 03:01:47.15 | Kristina Feller | Just to be clear, what we're looking for is consistent with the outdoor dining program. So it's actually a buffer, not just like a metal fence thing. It's actually a buffer. It's consistent with |
| 03:01:47.20 | Dan (Staff) | Pardon? |
| 03:01:59.94 | Kristina Feller | that material. |
| 03:02:04.28 | Dan (Staff) | Okay, I'll look into that. Moving those trees in where the chain feeding was. Number five, no vegetation on canopy. Number six, minimum five foot clearing at sidewalks. Number seven, I just have lighting. |
| 03:02:28.23 | Kristina Feller | Yes, ensure that the existing lighting at the scalloped sort of parapet at the top |
| 03:02:34.91 | Kevin McGowan | Oh yeah. |
| 03:02:36.23 | Kristina Feller | that that is restored. And then the other lighting that Mr. Rex had described is consistent with what he had before. And I don't think there's any need for further discussion there. |
| 03:02:51.55 | Dan (Staff) | Okay. And then number eight, indoor seating plan provided with as part of the condition. And then number nine, I have hours, 6 a.m. to 12 a.m. indoors. Monday through Friday, and then 6 a.m. to 10.30, outdoor Monday through Friday. |
| 03:03:10.65 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 03:03:12.32 | Michael Rex | Monday through Friday. Monday through Sunday. |
| 03:03:13.17 | Dan (Staff) | Monday through Sunday, I'm sorry. |
| 03:03:16.32 | Kristina Feller | And so the other thing that we had mentioned is that we have identified Commissioner Sodden, Commissioner Graff, who were to the applicant to on the final awning color. |
| 03:03:23.31 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yeah. |
| 03:03:32.10 | Unknown | Yes. |
| 03:03:32.96 | Kristina Feller | And then condition of approval number 10, there was a revision to the the CUP and the recommendation to city council for the encroachment permit, which includes the issue of the alcohol. |
| 03:03:52.26 | Dan (Staff) | Yeah, I was gonna work a surgery on that language. |
| 03:03:54.58 | Kristina Feller | Very good. And then there was a comment on item number seven of conditions of approval, make sure that the date of the plans is correct. |
| 03:04:07.01 | Dan (Staff) | What was that again? |
| 03:04:08.62 | Kristina Feller | that Commissioner Luxenberg had mentioned that the, the item condition of approval, item seven package. Yeah. Okay. |
| 03:04:13.76 | Dan (Staff) | Oh yeah. Yeah, I've already changed that, but yes. |
| 03:04:18.49 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 03:04:19.92 | Jeffery Luxenberg | And 21 a, which are already changed. Yes. |
| 03:04:22.07 | Kristina Feller | 21 is already changing to 60 inches, okay. Yeah. OK. So Commissioner Graff does that wrap up your motion. |
| 03:04:33.10 | Richard Graef | I believe it does. |
| 03:04:34.42 | Kristina Feller | Okay, Vice Chair Junius, are you still willing to second that? |
| 03:04:38.92 | Richard Graef | Yeah. |
| 03:04:39.06 | Andrew Junius | Absolutely. |
| 03:04:39.08 | Dan (Staff) | Absolutely. |
| 03:04:39.83 | Kristina Feller | Okay, Dan, could you please call the roll? |
| 03:04:43.83 | Dan (Staff) | Commissioner Assad. |
| 03:04:45.98 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 03:04:46.00 | Dan (Staff) | Yes. Commissioner Luxenberg. |
| 03:04:48.80 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yes. |
| 03:04:49.72 | Dan (Staff) | Commissioner Graff. Yeah. Vice Chair Juniors? Yes. Chair Feller? |
| 03:04:55.70 | Kristina Feller | Yes. |
| 03:04:57.20 | Dan (Staff) | Motion passes unanimously. |
| 03:04:58.92 | Kristina Feller | Okay, great. Thank you very much. So at this point, I'd like to adjourn our special meeting. For anybody who is listening in the audience, we are, um, adjourning this meeting and we're going to move immediately into our regular planning commission hearing. |
| 03:05:17.43 | Michael Rex | Thank you for your time tonight. |
| 03:05:19.15 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 03:05:19.85 | Michael Rex | Appreciate it. to my company. Good night, girl, Michael. |
| 03:05:27.02 | Kristina Feller | Dan, you tell me when you're ready? |
| 03:05:28.87 | Dan (Staff) | Thank you. |
| 03:05:28.92 | Maria (Staff) | I'm ready. |
| 03:05:30.00 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Good evening, everybody. Thank you. |
| 03:05:33.18 | Maria (Staff) | I'm sorry, I'm not ready. Let me, I need to start that other meeting. |
| 03:05:37.04 | Kristina Feller | Forgive me, Maria. Forgive me. Okay. I'll wait for you. |
| 03:06:45.98 | Kristina Feller | Bye. So anybody in the audience, if you could just hold on for a moment, we are going to start our regular. |
| 03:06:52.34 | Maria (Staff) | CHAIR FELLER, WE'RE READY. |
| 03:06:54.28 | Kristina Feller | Okay, we're gonna start right now. Thank you so much, Maria. Thank you for keeping us. recorded and on Zoom here. So good evening everybody and welcome to the regular planning commission hearing for Wednesday, June 15th. I'd like to call this meeting to order and ask Dan, if you could please call our roll. |
| 03:07:15.29 | Dan (Staff) | Okay. Thank you, Chair Feller, members of the commission. Let me go ahead and give my spiel just in case somebody new came on. Good evening Chair, fellow and planning commissioners. This meeting is being held pursuant to government code section. 54953 subsection E and in light of the declaration, In light of the declared state of emergency, the regular planning meeting, Regular meeting of the planning commission on June 14th, 2022 will be conducted telephonically through Zoom and broadcast live on the city's website. With that, I will do call to order. Commissioner Graff? Here. Commissioner Luxembourg? Thank you. |
| 03:07:57.73 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I'm sorry. |
| 03:07:57.97 | Dan (Staff) | Thank you. Commissioner Saad. |
| 03:07:59.60 | Kristina Feller | here. |
| 03:07:59.77 | Dan (Staff) | Thank you. |
| 03:07:59.82 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 03:08:00.36 | Dan (Staff) | Mr. Junius? interview. Chair Fowler. |
| 03:08:04.07 | Kristina Feller | Here. |
| 03:08:04.76 | Dan (Staff) | We have a quorum. |
| 03:08:06.15 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. The next item on our agenda is approval of the agenda. Do I have any comment or a motion to approve? |
| 03:08:13.98 | Michael Rex | I'll move. Second. |
| 03:08:16.24 | Kristina Feller | Very good. Dan, can you call the roll? |
| 03:08:18.60 | Dan (Staff) | Commissioner Graff, Commissioner Luxembourg. Thank you. |
| 03:08:22.01 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yes. |
| 03:08:22.40 | Dan (Staff) | Thank you. Commissioner Saad? Yes. Vice Chair Junius. |
| 03:08:26.26 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 03:08:26.28 | Dan (Staff) | Thank you. |
| 03:08:26.30 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yes. |
| 03:08:26.69 | Dan (Staff) | Thank you. Chair Feller. |
| 03:08:28.00 | Kristina Feller | Yes. |
| 03:08:29.27 | Dan (Staff) | Motion carries. |
| 03:08:29.40 | Kristina Feller | I think. THANK YOU. The next item on our agenda are public comments for items not on the agenda. So this would be the time for the public to make any comments. on any item not on the agenda this evening by raising their hand in the Zoom application. or you can press star nine on your cell phone. I will call you in the order I see you on my screen, and you'll have three minutes to make public comment. I'm just looking for raised hands in the audience. Seeing none, I will go ahead and close public comment and we'll move on to item number four, which is approval of the planning commission minutes. These are the approval of the June 1st Planning Commission minutes. Do I have any comments from any commissioner just by the show of hands? If not, I'll look for a motion to approve the minutes. So move. Do I have a second? Thank you Commissioner Graff. Dan will you please call the roll. |
| 03:09:28.72 | Dan (Staff) | COMMISSIONER GRIFF, Yeah. Commissioner Luxembourg. Yeah. Commissioner Saad. Yes. Vice Chair Junius. Chair Feller? |
| 03:09:39.57 | Kristina Feller | Yeah. |
| 03:09:42.18 | Dan (Staff) | Motion carries. |
| 03:09:43.37 | Kristina Feller | Great. |
| 03:09:43.70 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 03:09:44.21 | Dan (Staff) | Thank you. |
| 03:09:44.53 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 03:09:46.50 | Dan (Staff) | Chair Fowler. |
| 03:09:47.48 | Kristina Feller | Yes. |
| 03:09:48.21 | Dan (Staff) | Did you want to do report out from subcommittees? |
| 03:09:50.94 | Kristina Feller | Yes, I do. There are a couple big, big items that we want to get to real fast. but I'll ask everyone to be brief if they can. I'll start with staff, Dan or Sergio, do you have anything to report out from staff? |
| 03:10:06.62 | Dan (Staff) | I have nothing at this time. |
| 03:10:08.44 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 03:10:10.23 | Mary Wagner | nothing to report. |
| 03:10:12.31 | Kristina Feller | Okay, thank you so much. Let's move on to the subcommittees and, in the spirit of trying to be economic with our time here. I'm going to ask vice chair Junius if he wouldn't mind reporting out on the objective design and development standards as well as start the discussion of the California housing legislative working group, along with commissioner Luxembourg. So let's do odds first. |
| 03:10:39.34 | Andrew Junius | Absolutely not a huge amount of additional update from our last meeting. I think Bob Brown continues to work with Opticos and we're getting closer to our hopefully final working group meeting with you, Chair Feller and me and Bob. and Opticos to start bringing things together. But they've had some complexity with regard to trying to match up the objective standards with our density issues in Sausalito. So it's pretty complicated, but we're making progress. And then moving to just a couple of things to keep our eye on. There have been there have been two bills introduced in Sacramento. Back in February SB 1336 was introduced, which is fondly being called the YGBY which is a very important Thank you. Yes, in God's backyard. and affordable housing. streamlining bill that will help. educational institutions as well as religious institutions to quickly produce affordable housing on their sites. We have a couple of churches in South Salud, so we'll keep an eye on that. And also very interesting one, Assemblyman Wicks has introduced AB 2011-2011, which is a a statute that if passed would streamline Um, a variety of new different affordable and mixed income multifamily Um, projects on on sites that aren't currently zoned for housing, which I think is kind of fascinating. It I think it does give cities an opportunity to catch up. There's like there's almost like a grace period if it does pass until January or January 2024 who, for cities to consider taking areas that are commercially zoned now for office, retail and parking, to consider allowing housing in those areas. But if they don't, then the law kicks in and basically makes those ministerial projects as well. So those are two new pieces of legislation we'll be tracking, so thank you. |
| 03:12:36.86 | Kristina Feller | Great, thank you. Commissioner Luxenberg, you First, I want to thank you so much for being at the city council meeting last night and representing the working group, but please report out. |
| 03:12:39.27 | Andrew Junius | Yes. |
| 03:12:48.77 | Jeffery Luxenberg | So SB9 was reviewed by the city council and first reading yesterday and was approved as recommended by the planning commission. So that's really good news. There'll be a second reading, I think on the 24th or so. |
| 03:13:03.66 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, I think it's 30 days, so. Um, but, but again, thank you for being there and answering, uh, city council's questions. And, um, You did the Planning Commission proud in the working group. So thank you very much for that. Um, let's, if there's nothing else, let's go ahead and move on. Actually, do you want to report out on parklets while |
| 03:13:24.56 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Sure, there's a meeting being held by the working group with the chamber, Congress invited, as well as any of the public. It'll be a Zoom meeting. It's Monday at 4.30. So people that are interested in that issue, obviously that came up tonight. That was separate from ParkLitz, but the whole concept of ParkLitz will be discussed openly and people have questions. That's a forum that can ask those questions. |
| 03:13:50.80 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, it's a community outreach type of forum. So we encourage everybody... to dial in. Just so everyone knows, the timing of 4.30 was somewhat a compromise for those businesses in town that have a busy dinner service. And so it's between their lunch and dinner, so to speak. So it's a little earlier than normal, but I hope everybody can attend. Let's move on to the housing element advisory committee and commissioner Saad, would you like to start reporting out on that? |
| 03:14:21.64 | Nastassya Saad | Absolutely, Chair Feller. So the next HIAC meeting is on June 27th. It's going to be at 6 p.m. We will start over the next two meetings going through the draft housing element and the further affirmatively Oh, I can never say this. Firmary. Help me, Chair Fowler. |
| 03:14:42.16 | Kristina Feller | further affordable housing. |
| 03:14:44.91 | Nastassya Saad | Yes, thank you. Is going to be woven into our draft housing element. So it's no longer gonna be a separate ticket item, but we will continue to review the draft house. We will start to review the draft housing element They're also at City Council last night. DeNova was there. Our consultant took City Council and the public through the draft housing sites. um, They too went neighborhood by neighborhood just as HIAC did. gave some input on some sites. Everything remaining currently will be heading into the EIR. And one just interesting point of clarification that there is funding within this project to design. get some renderings for some of the more contentious sites so the public can start to see what these possibilities may look like. Tons of public comment came in, it was great to see. Please continue to send public comment in before our next HEAC and of course always the city council and staff. Um, And I think that's all for housing. |
| 03:15:47.63 | Kristina Feller | Right. I'd also just like to add to that, if you don't mind, I wanna remind everybody that we do have a virtual binder on the city website under the housing element advisory committee, otherwise known as HIAC. That is continually updated. There are a number of links in there. including links to the city council hearing last night that did go to 1am because they were going through all these different sites so it's really important there's a ton of information it's difficult to keep up with it but we encourage everybody to do so and as it relates to the planning commission here and my fellow commissioners this will be coming to us we do have to review and approve this proposed plan as well as the EIR. We will be hearing that as well. So it's important to incrementally try to keep up with all that information. So I encourage you to do that. Anybody else have any report out at this time? I'd like to stay brief this evening, so I'm not going to get into too much more. Vice Chair Junius. |
| 03:16:53.39 | Andrew Junius | I'm sorry to have to raise this. I'm staring at a copy of our agenda for this evening that I got via email from Dan. I'm looking on the website. I don't, I see the agenda for the joint meeting. I don't see the agenda available to the public. for this meeting we're having right now. Maybe it's something wrong with my computer. I don't know. And I'm not sure it's that huge a deal. I mean, Sergio, you might want to comment on that. |
| 03:17:16.06 | Unknown | that. |
| 03:17:16.14 | Robert Maxwell | Yeah. |
| 03:17:16.17 | Unknown | Mr. Jill. |
| 03:17:18.60 | Andrew Junius | we only got one actual public hearing. So I mean, I don't know what I mean. |
| 03:17:21.22 | Mary Wagner | I don't know what I mean. I presently am looking at it. I always, as a matter of practice, look at the agenda available to the public. So it is on there, but just for some reason I'm not seeing it. Yes, it is. |
| 03:17:29.96 | Andrew Junius | myself. of this. Thank you. There. |
| 03:17:33.92 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. |
| 03:17:33.94 | Andrew Junius | It is how I personally receive the agenda. |
| 03:17:34.23 | Mary Wagner | Thank you. Oh. |
| 03:17:37.18 | Andrew Junius | and the gay cast and thank you. |
| 03:17:38.62 | Kristina Feller | But it's a good point to raise because sometimes I found, and this is for the public as well, I have to refresh my browser if something's uploaded to it, which is a little bit annoying, but thank you for raising it. If any of us see that, we should definitely be raising that and error on the caution there. ANY OTHER ITEMS TO REPORT OUT BY ANYBODY? Yes, Commissioner Saad. |
| 03:18:03.51 | Nastassya Saad | Not to report, but as a dovetail to what Commissioner Junius said, I was trying to look at the city council meeting link and it was not working. It could also be a personal issue, but maybe staff can just check last night's meeting. The video was not playing. |
| 03:18:20.96 | Kristina Feller | I had that problem too. There are about six different links to the video. And you have to scroll to the bottom one, which says five hours, however many minutes, the other ones just say zero. |
| 03:18:24.85 | Nastassya Saad | Links, yes. |
| 03:18:33.95 | Kristina Feller | Maybe that's a good one. |
| 03:18:34.37 | Nastassya Saad | Okay, maybe that's the issue, but maybe we could just clean that up as a call out. |
| 03:18:35.40 | Kristina Feller | issue. |
| 03:18:39.18 | Kristina Feller | Great, thank you. Dan, Sergio, if you could help us do that, that would be most appreciated. Okay, if there are no other comments, then I just want to continue to push for enforcement and enforcement reporting We are, we do report out on that now here with our enforcement officer at least once a month and we'll get on a more regular schedule. He's getting up to speed. So we're looking forward. Yes, Dan. |
| 03:19:10.03 | Dan (Staff) | A little bit of bad news. Our enforcement officers last day for the city will be Wednesday. |
| 03:19:15.61 | Kristina Feller | Okay, well hopefully you will be filling that with someone else. |
| 03:19:17.99 | Dan (Staff) | Yeah. |
| 03:19:19.21 | Kristina Feller | We certainly have a list that we should keep running and we can talk about the rest of that offline. But enforcement is a priority and it will remain so one way or the other. Sure. |
| 03:19:32.02 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Chair Feller, in that regard, we asked for a list. If we could have that list before his last day, if we get that, that would be helpful. |
| 03:19:38.89 | Kristina Feller | Yes. Yeah. And the other thing I just wanted to mention is Dan, we should get back into our CDD quarterly reporting, which includes report outs from the planning commission. And I'd like to direct staff to also touch base with the city council. This commission did issue a list of priority funding items, which are basic needs for the planning commission. including such things as a master plan for the city. things of that kind, updating our social and municipal code, taking a general plan and actually putting it into action and updating the municipal code and ordinances with that. And so on, these are very basic needs. We have not heard back from them. And I think report, if you could help report back to this commission, it would be most helpful. Okay, with that, let me go ahead and open this up to public comment. If anyone has public comment on item five, which are one-way communications here, Now's the time to do so. If you could raise your hand in the Zoom application. or you can press star nine on your cell phone. call on you as I see hands in the order I see them at least on my screen And we'll get to everybody, so not to worry. Seeing no hands, I will go ahead and close public comment. Let's move on to item number six, new business, Dan. |
| 03:21:06.68 | Dan (Staff) | Chair Feller, members of the commission, I spoke to Southern Moran Fire District today They weren't aware that we were gonna split the agendas felt that due to time constraints, which it turned out to be such They had prior commitments at 8 and 8.30 and we're gonna be able to discuss evacuation routes and preferred species tonight. Um, but I did talk to them and we can, and, and, I guess it would be up to the commission to hold a special meeting on the 29th just to hear them. give their presentation and they would be the only person on the agenda. So that might work out best. So. |
| 03:21:52.20 | Kristina Feller | Well, it's a shame to hear that but certainly this planning commission wants to support every venue and avenue we can for Southerman fire to present and provide information, critical information to our community. I would certainly support a special meeting just for them to present and allow the public to ask questions and get clarification on evacuation routes and so on. I would also encourage that staff help. Uh, maybe, I don't know if that's the wrong word, The Historic Preservation Commission the sustainability committee City Council and anybody else I don't know if it could be a joint or multi special meeting but certainly reach out to them and make sure that they help support and announce a special meeting however commissioners are you willing to do that if it's a one topic hearing um commissioner Saad would you be willing |
| 03:23:01.79 | Chair Nichols | Definitely. |
| 03:23:03.38 | Kristina Feller | Ms. Graft. |
| 03:23:05.50 | Richard Graef | sure. Do you think it would take a whole Evening. |
| 03:23:08.91 | Kristina Feller | No, I think it would probably be about an hour, hour and a half with questions. I mean, it's really a report out. We're all members of the community. I don't know where my evacuation route is. |
| 03:23:19.86 | Richard Graef | Yeah, no, I'm just wondering if it requires a special meeting or whether it could be part of a regular agenda as it was this evening. |
| 03:23:29.33 | Kristina Feller | I would make it a special meeting and just have them and that's it. |
| 03:23:32.81 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 03:23:32.84 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 03:23:32.89 | Richard Graef | Yeah. |
| 03:23:32.94 | Kristina Feller | It's my recommendation, but open to everyone else's suggestions. |
| 03:23:39.29 | Richard Graef | I'm okay with that. |
| 03:23:40.50 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 03:23:40.85 | Unknown Commissioner | Thank you. |
| 03:23:40.87 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 03:23:41.33 | Unknown Commissioner | Commissioner Luxenberg? |
| 03:23:42.09 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 03:23:43.10 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 03:23:43.12 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I think I have some similar thoughts as commissioner graph that if that's not going to take a whole meeting, given that the next meeting I think is overloaded. If we have some other items we can take care of before bothering to leave, it would be better to have, not have a one hour meeting and then have a six hour meeting. |
| 03:24:03.42 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 03:24:04.36 | Jeffery Luxenberg | You know, if there are other items that can be put on, then put them on. |
| 03:24:04.43 | Kristina Feller | You know. |
| 03:24:08.45 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Okay. |
| 03:24:08.50 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Thank you. |
| 03:24:09.93 | Jeffery Luxenberg | But I'm okay with the special use. |
| 03:24:12.60 | Kristina Feller | Okay, well that's good to know that you'd be willing to do a whole, even if we have other items. So let's hold that thought for just a moment and ask Vice Chair Junius if he's, and available. So you're on mute. Thank you. |
| 03:24:28.46 | Andrew Junius | So... |
| 03:24:29.42 | Kristina Feller | You're unmuted. |
| 03:24:31.87 | Andrew Junius | Yeah, if we're talking about June 29th. |
| 03:24:34.21 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 03:24:34.25 | Kristina Feller | Yeah. |
| 03:24:35.01 | Andrew Junius | I won't be available at night, so that's, you know. |
| 03:24:38.38 | Kristina Feller | OKAY. |
| 03:24:39.12 | Andrew Junius | That would be... |
| 03:24:39.78 | Kristina Feller | We would have a forum with four |
| 03:24:42.25 | Andrew Junius | Well, you'd have a quorum with four, so I would look at the video later, but yeah. |
| 03:24:46.18 | Kristina Feller | So they keep it as a special hearing |
| 03:24:46.42 | Andrew Junius | about that. |
| 03:24:50.09 | Kristina Feller | So there's no action needed. but Dan we can work that out but let's go ahead and confirm June 29th. |
| 03:24:59.78 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:24:59.88 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yes. |
| 03:25:00.73 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Do we need to vote on this, Sergio? |
| 03:25:08.77 | Mary Wagner | I don't think you need to officially vote on it. However, given this items on the agenda for day, let's make sure that we invite public comment before we move on. |
| 03:25:18.12 | Kristina Feller | Okay, perfect, thank you. All right, unless there are any other comments, from commissioners in none. I'll go ahead and open this up for public comment. So this is public comment on item number six this evening. To make public comment, please raise your hand in the Zoom application or press star nine on your phone. I'm just looking for raised hands. Seeing none, I'll close public comment. Let's move on to item seven, which is our study session. Dan, Kevin, or Jackson? |
| 03:25:51.94 | Dan (Staff) | This is not. |
| 03:25:51.96 | Unknown Commissioner | Yeah. |
| 03:25:53.81 | Dan (Staff) | Chair Feller, members of the commission study session is to provide direction and feedback to staff on the design elements associated with the Sausalito ferry landslide. And side, sorry. Project phase one provided to you presentation by Kevin McGowan. |
| 03:26:12.75 | Kevin McGowan | Good evening, Mayor Feller. I'm just going to be Chair Feller. It is late, isn't it? Boo! I'm going to share my screen here very shortly. And let's see if I can get this up here. Can everybody see my screen that says Ferry Landside Improvement Project Phase 1? |
| 03:26:29.40 | Kristina Feller | We can, yes, thank you, Director McGowan. |
| 03:26:32.10 | Kevin McGowan | So usually by 10 o'clock, I turn into a frog anyway. So if I get some of these things wrong, please bear with me. Lucky for me, we have some consultants with us tonight. We've got Becky Dower from BKF, who has probably put her kids to bed already, and Nathan Gray from RHAA as well. I'm not sure if he has kids in the family yet either. But so for this evening, we are talking about the Ferry Landside Project. I'm gonna go through some of these slides fairly quickly so that just due to the lateness of the hour and we'll move forward. So most everyone knows where lot number one is in Sausalito. There's a ferry dock here and Golden Gate Bridge Highway Transportation District leases this property from the city itself. In 2017, a memo of understanding was adopted by the city council in which we are receiving pass-through funding from the federal transit authority in the amount of $2 million in order to make improvements on the land side of the ferry itself. Golden Gate Bridge Highway Transportation District is adding $400,000 to that. And the city is putting up $100,000. That is the first go around from 2017. Approximately 182 parking spaces or parking stalls are here in lot one. There are some other numbers floating out there. So we have to make sure that we get the right numbers. Tracy way also has 11 parking spaces. So I'm gonna talk about each one of these fairly quickly. So what's the problem here in parking lot one? The ferry service is very busy in the summer months for the tourism, bike rental organizations, rent bikes to tourists to ride across the bridge and deposit their bikes here and they board the ferry and some of them board the ferry with their bikes Long queuing lines, closet and the closet area and parking lot cannot accommodate the volume of people and bikes at this point in time. The ferry dock system is old. Golden Gate Bridge Highway Transportation District plans to replace the dock itself. So that's one of the reasons why this funding came through. A couple other things you can see in some of these pictures where my cursor is. You can notice that the ticket kiosk, this lovely blue thing over here, it's actually right in the way of where folks want to board the ferry. So it tends to be a problem as well. So there's moving some of these things around that's required. And there are some older safety issues as well. And I'll kind of talk about some of those in a little bit. Now, as part of the federal grant, we are to comply with certain things written into the grant language. I'm not gonna read all of these. I'll just make them fairly quick. We need to enhance the promenade. We need to enhance pedestrian and bicycle access. These are some of the requirements. We need to increase the available staging for bike parking. That's a pretty big one. optimize vehicle flow and relocate the ticket kiosks. So those are the general ideas of what this project is to encumber or include. Let's keep going here because of the hour. Currently, bikes and peds share the same area in the plaza for boarding the ferry. The kiosk is kind of in the wrong spot, as I mentioned. And we have some older issues here on Tracy Way. If you'll notice, Tracy Way exits onto Bridgeway at an acute angle. The sight distance here is not very good from a traffic perspective. And I'm recommending that we close this exit itself. I'll show you a couple more sketches of what our local architects group has come up with. They are a group of at least three architects who's helped us out with the design of this specific area. We do wanna thank them. It's Bill Hines, it's Michael Rex, and it is Jacques Ullman who have helped us with that. Great folks to work with. So let's keep going. So here's the existing plaza. And what we'd like to do is expand that plaza area, make it larger for pedestrians and the general public. The intent is to provide a wider plaza area for pedestrians. We are not planning on removing the existing concrete plaza, especially since we have a limited budget. 2.5 million doesn't go very far these days. the existing plaza areas stay essentially the same. So here's BKF's original plan. BKF is our engineer company in charge of helping us with this specific project and designing it and getting it ready for construction. So we'll look at this plan later on as well, but I have a couple other graphics for you. All right, a couple key areas that have been issues in the past, such as this current sidewalk in this location, which accesses the Sausalito Yacht Harbors, excuse me, Yacht Club's parking lot. It's rather narrow. It needs some improvements. We're going to take a look at this intersection, which is the Spinnaker and excuse me, Anchor and Spinnaker. And again, we talked a little bit about this exit from Tracy Way. So those all need to be improved in some way, shape, or form. So the proposed plan at this point in time is to do some widening of the plaza area. And I'll run through these. So BKS plan includes closing off Tracy way, but allowing vehicles to access this area from lot one. So you'll notice that we are still having Tracy way as a through area for vehicles. The Plaza area is expanded to have a drop off area as well as. provide a large area for pedestrians. Amenities such as trees and benches are also being contemplated in this area amenities will help to separate pedestrians from the ferry and those walking through for the view and the ambiance ticket cut kiosks are moved they were not necessarily removing any of the trees in the parking lot at this point in time they stay generally the same and due to the limited budget we're not anticipating resurfacing this entire lot we're going to try to put a micro seal on top of it which is to seal it in place to buy us a few more years on this parking surface Couple things I've already mentioned, the widening of the area to the Yacht Club parking, closing off Tracy Way as well. I think we've moved those forward. So the existing traffic patterns, you can see some of them here. And what we're proposing to do, and I think Becky and Nathaniel will kind of talk a little bit about this, is to separate out the pedestrian and the bicycle flow. The intent is to move the bike parking over to the east side of the parking lot and have overflow that runs possibly down portions of anchor or spinnaker. And I can't remember if this is called spinnaker at that point in time, but it is late, so bear with me. That's the intent at this point. We may have to encroach slightly into Gabrielson Park in the landscape area in order to widen the bike parking area. And a permanent bike parking is anticipated to be partially obscured by plants and vegetation as well. We may look at that in a little bit. There are other things going on with this particular project. I had mentioned some overflow of bike parking down here off in Spinnaker. And there's a possibility of having overflow bike parking here. for queuing up to the ferry itself. The idea with these blue lines is to have the bicycles access the ferry system where the blue lines are shown and then have pedestrians utilize the plaza itself. you |
| 03:34:45.26 | Unknown | you |
| 03:34:45.43 | Kevin McGowan | Yeah. Sorry, I moved forward. Now, the local professionals group has also suggested that if there is additional funding available, that we consider possibly raising El Portal slightly and making Tracy way a pedestrian corridor. So making this much wider and just for pedestrians to access through this area. At this point, there is very limited funding, but they had mentioned that this is important to them as the local professionals group. And they had mentioned that we should always bring it up. Now, outside of parking lot one, there are also improvements that have been proposed from different commissions and committees. The pedestrian bicycle advisory committee for Sausalito has also mentioned that there is a North South Greenway that should be terminating someplace over here in parking lot one. So we are looking at part of that with that committee. They had also mentioned some safety issues here about long crosswalks and whether having duplicative crosswalks at intersections are really needed. We're looking at that, too, as part of this project and seeing if we might be able to make improvements in both of these areas. All right, with that, I'm hoping to turn it over to Becky Dower. Becky, are you on the call? |
| 03:36:09.57 | Becky Dower | I'm here and I'm ready to go, Kevin. I'm supported by Nathaniel Gray with RHA. He's our landscape architect. We're going to handle this next portion of the presentation together. |
| 03:36:11.84 | Kevin McGowan | I'm also. |
| 03:36:20.36 | Becky Dower | So Kevin gave a great, very quick, which is I'm sure is appreciated and concise overview of the project. and the grant requirements that are really driving a lot of the improvements that we've been making at the project site. However, there are a number of features that we need planning commissions feedback on before we can move forward. So there's really two different flavors to the type of feedback that we're looking for here. The first flavor, so to speak, really has to do with provisions to accommodate the bicycles and some of the pedestrians that are perhaps displaced by bicycle parking and queuing that we need to accommodate out here. The second flavor has more to do how, you know, the city plans on using the plaza, how that area is viewed to be used, and also some of the visual improvements and impacts to that area. All right, next slide, please. Kevin, we'll get into the specifics here. So the first item that we need feedback from planning commission on is where we can park the bikes. Currently, bike parking out at the plaza happens on Tracy Way. It also happens along the plaza. So with our widening of the plaza area, as well as with our conversion of Tracy Way to part of the parking lot, We are displacing all of the bike parking that is currently programmed out there. We have met with Golden Gate Bridge and Highway Transportation District, as well as the bike return companies, the folks that actually corral bicyclists out here. And we understand that the target is to have at least 300 bicycle parking spaces. Now, what do I mean by bicycle parking? Parking is like a bike rack that you could put a bike into so that whether it's our tourists or locals, they can bring their bike down to the plaza area, they can park it and they can leave it there as they go explore the downtown area. So bicycle parking options. We don't have a lot of bicycle parking options programmed on site per se, with the site being parking lot one and the surrounding plaza area. A lot of these parking needs are seasonal. This is just primarily happens during the peak summer months when we have a lot of tourists riding into town and then hoping to take their bicycles back on. back on the ferry to the city. We have identified an area here along spinnaker drive it's on the east side of spinnaker so it's the gilson park side. Where there is some wide open areas underneath some trees that we thought would be a good place for the seasonal temporary bike parking. So you can see in the image that I have down here on the bottom left, I've circled one of those areas. There's several of these areas that exist under the trees. There are some bushes there, but it's primarily flat. Some picnic tables that look movable. And then you can see over in the image on the right there, that's sort of a diagrammatic layout of how this, the bike racks and the bike parking might look under those areas. So we're looking for feedback from commission on if it would be suitable to use these areas for the seasonal bike parking. Next slide please. Next item we want feedback on has to do with bike queuing. Now, what is bike queuing? This is standing in a line with your bicycle, hands on handlebars, ready to move through the line and get on the ferry. So this is an actively moving line of people pushing their bikes. Again, in coordination with Golden Gate Bridge and Highway Transportation District, We understand that there are situations during the summer where they have up to two ferries at the dock at any given time and the capacity for up to 150 on each ferry. So we need to provide provisions to queue approximately 300 bicycles. Kevin had shown some exhibits earlier that showed some on-site queuing. So that would be queuing that comes down the dock. runs in front of the Yacht Club, and then on the east side of parking lot one, near Gabrielson Park, That doesn't quite get us to 300 bikes queued up. So we have been looking for additional areas to queue these bicycles. WE'VE LOOKED AT AREAS THAT INCLUDE THE HUMBOLD, WHERE THERE'S A TOUR BUS PARKING. But we have also looked at this area here where I would like some feedback from Commission tonight. And this area is along Spinnaker Drive. You can see in the photo that's down in the bottom left, |
| 03:40:52.98 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:40:53.17 | Becky Dower | There is an existing asphalt walkway. It's separated from the roadway with a little asphalt berm. |
| 03:40:53.20 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 03:40:59.90 | Becky Dower | This runs along Spinnaker all the way from Humble or Anchor, that intersection there, all the way to the restaurant. So it's many hundred feet long. There are alternative pedestrian pathways that exist within Gabrielston Park. So if you look over to the image on the right, You can see where you can see maybe these like little army ant looking figures lined up. Those are some bicycles cued two by two. on the existing asphalt pathway along Spinnaker There are other alternatives for pedestrian circulation that exist within Gabrielson Park there. So our proposal is to be able to utilize this asphalt pathway to queue up bicycles during the peak summer months. Understanding that there are other opportunities for pedestrians to circulate in the park on the existing pathways in the park. So we'd like feedback on whether this approach would be acceptable to the commission or not. Alright, next slide, please. All right, so I just noted that there's alternative paths with Gabriel Sun Park. for pedestrians to use Laius feet. However, by us using that existing asphalt path that's right on Spinnaker, we understand that we could be potentially displacing some pedestrians who would use that pathway, primarily those who are parking in some of the parking lots up near the Yacht Harbor. So we have prepared a solution and a solution that we would like to get some feedback on that. accommodates those pedestrians who would potentially be displaced by our bike queuing on the asphalt pathway. So what this solution involves is construction of a new asphalt pathway that would be a pedestrian only pathway. Spinnaker whey, it spinnaker drive, excuse me, varies in width, but at its narrowest, it's still about 25 feet wide, which is pretty wide considering how many vehicles use that roadway. So even at its narrowest, we have the opportunity to utilize the existing pavement width keep the existing pathway that we intend to use for bicycle queuing, and then put down a new asphalt dike to create a sort of section off a new pathway to be for pedestrian only use. So even at our narrowest, we have the real estate available for two 10 foot travel lanes, keeping the existing asphalt pathway. And then dedicating a minimum four foot wide new pedestrian pathway. On the images that I have here at the bottom, I've got a blue line that shows us pathway on what would be the west side of Spinnaker or the parking lot side. The pathway does not need to be on that side. It could also be on the east side immediately adjacent to the existing pathway that we have. So in essence, two side by side pathways, one for bikes during, one for bike queuing during peak summer months and one for PEDS, or they can be on opposite sides of Spinnaker Drive. So we would look to commission to give us feedback on, first of all, if you think having an additional pedestrian pathway would be important to the project, would be important to the city. And if so, let us know what sort of preferences you would have in terms of which side of the street this can go on. Again, we have additional, we have available, pavement width for this pathway. So this pathway is really just the installation of a new asphalt berm to separate the pathway from the vehicle area. All right, next slide please, Kevin. Great. So this item doesn't quite fall into the category of bike parking, but it certainly impacts circulation. There is an existing Sally Stanford water fountain. It's right near that ticket booth that is blocked when there is pedestrian queuing to get on the ferry. This fountain also is problematic for circulation, not only in the existing condition, but in future condition. It's essentially going to be right in the middle of the plaza once we expand that plaza area. So we are looking for feedback for planning commission on a number of items related to this fountain. Um, first of all, we're coming in with the assumption that the city would like to preserve this fountain. If this fountain is not a feature that needs to be preserved, we would like feedback in that regard. If this fountain is a feature that needs to be preserved We would like feedback from the commission on where this water fountain can go. I do want to point out that this water fountain is concrete. It's cast in place concrete. to relocate this water fountain would essentially entail removing the plaque and the metal dishes from the fountain. demolishing the concrete structure. And then rebuilding a structure in an alternative location. So... We have some options for locations out at the Plaza. I've got an image of an existing kiosk that's at the Plaza that will remain. We have water infrastructure nearby that kiosk. So that could be a potential location to relocate the fountain to. Alternatively, if the city doesn't want to keep this fountain, there could be offsite locations where this fountain might be appropriate as well. So we're looking for commission feedback on a number of items here. This was a fountain, something that the city does in fact want to keep. And if so, would you like to see it at the plaza or at some other offsite location? All right, next slide please, Kevin. Nathaniel, if you're on the call, I will turn it over to you to take it from here. |
| 03:46:57.73 | Kevin McGowan | So can we make Nathaniel co-host? |
| 03:46:58.26 | Robert Maxwell | Thank you. |
| 03:47:11.52 | Kevin McGowan | Becky, I'm not too sure we got him on the call. |
| 03:47:14.32 | Becky Dower | I'm not sure. I saw him earlier and maybe maybe something happened and he had to drop off. I'll go ahead and I'll cover- He's here, I see him. |
| 03:47:22.17 | Kristina Feller | I can't quite see them. |
| 03:47:22.37 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 03:47:23.33 | Becky Dower | you. |
| 03:47:23.35 | Nastassya Saad | Perhaps Maria can unmute him. |
| 03:47:26.56 | Kristina Feller | Maria, we might have to make Nathaniel a co-host |
| 03:47:33.12 | Kristina Feller | Hold on, everybody. |
| 03:47:35.96 | Nathan Gray | Hello, can you hear me now? |
| 03:47:37.27 | Kristina Feller | Yeah. |
| 03:47:37.31 | Unknown | I mean, I'm not. |
| 03:47:37.36 | Kristina Feller | Yeah. |
| 03:47:37.86 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 03:47:37.88 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 03:47:38.03 | Unknown | Yes. |
| 03:47:39.01 | Nathan Gray | Ah, very good. Thank you. All right, well happy to be here and show you some a few alternatives we're looking at. And we do have some design questions that we'd love to hear some feedback. So you've seen some of the plans that we've shown where there's the line of trees going through the plaza. Obviously listening to some of the earlier conversations, we know trees and views of the Bay are extremely important here. So we are looking at some alternatives. We do think some trees on this plaza are important. It's increasing in size. |
| 03:48:10.30 | Robert Maxwell | INCREASED. |
| 03:48:10.63 | Andrew Junius | Thank you. |
| 03:48:10.74 | Robert Maxwell | Thank you. |
| 03:48:11.83 | Nathan Gray | considerably and The trees will help give a human scale. They will help frame the space. So we want to think about how to do that in a way that still keeps views. And I would point out that I think the hedge that's on the plaza right now is one of the, along the back edge of the plaza is one of the things that is blocking views more than the trees. Um, So this is one alternative we've looked at with two box of trees on each side of the plaza. So the middle of the plaza is open to views. Also, we have heard express the desire for flexible space, whether there could be concerts out here or events or, you know, farmers markets. You know, obviously, we're not sure what programming would happen, but leaving a large space, open space in the middle allows for a more flexible use. If you want to go to the next slide, Kevin, there's some diagrammatic. Obviously we're not sure what programming would happen, but leaving a large space, open space in the middle allows for a more flexible use. If you wanna go to the next slide, Kevin, there's some diagrammatic. overlays here. So yeah, you can see we've created a fairly open view shed to the bay. um, And there is a, the existing paving is, you know, the existing plaza is pretty much there. It will feel more open with the hedge removed and some elements we're proposing some new benches. And then you'll see that we have the bike parking as Becky and Kevin mentioned up on the North side there. And then there will be a pedestrian route along Tracy way into the plaza. Yeah, so that's we can go ahead and move to the next slide and look at the next alternative. So this is the other alternative And we were thinking that yes, a lot of trees could align with the route of the bike viewing and create a line that pulls you up towards Gabriels and Park. is still I think modeling to be done that we've started a little modeling of views through these trees. We are proposing planters with benches around these trees. In this iteration you have large open spaces on both sides of the plaza and both sides of the information kiosk along the water and closer to El Fortau. One thing I will point out, we're showing them both alternatives is One of the questions we would like some feedback on is we have existing paving and we're trying to avoid new paving next to that, which I don't think is the ideal scenario from a design standpoint, but from a budget it's where it's what we're looking at. So we thought there was a possibility of creating linear pavers that we could cut into the new plaza that could run all the way through the old paving. So cutting that, creating a connection to tie those together. |
| 03:50:22.50 | Robert Maxwell | No. |
| 03:50:39.81 | Nathan Gray | But that's something we would like some feedback on. And you can go to the next slide, Kevin. So in this alternative, there are views between the trees to the bay, but not as wide open of views. You have a corridor paving along the ferry side and you have open space on the El Fortau side. move on. Next slide. So just seeing the two alternatives side by side. Yeah, so this is alternative one and alternative two. side by side if you want to move to the next slide. just a little zoomed in to help us view it a little better. One thing we'll point out, this box of trees creates with benches around planters. There's on the northern side, there's sort of a room with some shade, so it provides some seating for people. We are showing furniture in the middle, and then we're framing the information kiosk with new trees. Still exploration, I think these are, we're exploring these and we wanna think about the configuration of the trees and open space and how to frame that usability. Next slide. we've sort of covered this. Again we're just looking at there's large open there is still flexible space in this design but the trees cut through the middle. Um, Next slide. So this is not an exact typology, but we've seen these linear pavers through concrete. This was an idea for if we cut in just pavers through the existing paving, also into the new paving. Could that help tie them together? Or would that actually look would that look aesthetically as nice? I think we're still debating that and we'd like some feedback on that. Next slide. |
| 03:52:27.52 | Nathan Gray | For the benches, we're framing the trees right now. We are thinking large wooden blocks. benches have sort of a sense of whether that's driftwood or a large solid feel. So that's aesthetically what we're thinking for benches right now. Could use feedback on that. Next slide. This is, I think, a pretty important element. This, I would say, I'm not looking as much for comment on style, although you're welcome to comment on style, but these are shown to We think there should be some furniture, perhaps tables and seating in the plaza. Do we want fixed furniture or movable? I think movable is obviously more flexible use. You can create configurations, people could move and group together, but I think there's also a greater risk of loss of property or looking scattered as it gets moved about the plaza without some maintenance. If it's fixed, you have no loss of property. You can design it and lay it out with a nice clean look, |
| 03:53:05.14 | Robert Maxwell | It's not available. |
| 03:53:28.02 | Nathan Gray | less flexibility. And then I guess the other question is, do we even want tables and chairs on the plastic? Next slide. So these are two, just looking at the alternatives in three dimension, this is basically a diagram for viewshed. So this gives you an idea, alternative one, the four box. This is if you're coming kind of at Alportal on the edge there where the pedestrian walkway we're showing comes in, looking towards the bay. So you can see on alternative one, there's views to the, well, sorry, these should say alternative one and two, small typo there. Alternative one, pretty wide open views towards the bay. There are still trees in the plaza. Um, We want feedback on this. We know this is a sensitive question. We think there does need to be some sort of granary and freeze. I think lower, I think the trees will grow up and provide views, especially when we remove the hedge, whereas low planting could actually, you know, shrubs can grow up and block views. On the right, you can see there is still pretty good open views. There are currently some trees around the kiosk that are clearly towards the end of their life growing ragged and not full canopies. So I think by clearing those, we can actually create better views but put in some new trees. So these are two options to consider. Um, AND believe that maybe are my slides. I think there's some summary. Next slide. And Becky, do you wanna, |
| 03:54:54.05 | Becky Dower | Yeah, I'll hop back in here. So just to recap, because there are a number of items that we're looking for feedback on. We would like some feedback on the use of a portion of Gabrielson Park under the trees for use of seasonal bike parking. That is bike racks and bikes to be stored there during the summer months, tourist months. We're looking for feedback on the use of the existing asphalt path along Spinnaker Drive for bicycle queuing. So basically lines of folks waiting to get on the query with their bike. We would like feedback on if we need to entertain the development of a new pedestrian pathway on Spinnaker if we utilize the existing asphalt pathway on Spinnaker for bike queuing. We'd like feedback on the Southern Stanford water fountain in a number of ways. Is this a fountain that we want to maintain? If it is, would it be suitable to relocate this to another portion of the plaza, such as by the kiosk? Or is there another home for the Sally Stanford fountain once rebuilt somewhere else in the town? We're looking for feedback on ways to integrate the old plaza with the new. Nathaniel had presented an approach where we use basically veins of pavers to sort of tie the two together because the old new concrete will have a different look. So we're looking for feedback in that item. feedback on the trees. As Nathaniel said, we are promoting the use of trees out on the plaza. So we are looking for feedback on primarily on the two alternatives that Nathaniel had presented here with the boss of trees, the grouping of trees versus the trees in the line across the plaza. And then feedback on furnishings, you know, is seating desired? If so, are we open to, you know, fixed, you know, chairs and tables or are more movable furnishings preferred so that we have more flexibility and use of the space? Right and with that I'll turn it back to you Kevin. |
| 03:56:55.75 | Kevin McGowan | All right. I'm going to stop sharing my screen and want to thank you all for hanging out with us this evening and especially to Becky and Nathaniel. Thank you very much. But we would love to get your feedback on what you've seen. And even if we haven't hit the highlights that you want to talk about, let us know what your thoughts are. So I'll write down some notes. |
| 03:57:19.27 | Kristina Feller | Director McGowan and team, thank you so much for the presentation and your thought and care that you've put into it. particularly at this late hour, and sorry it is not earlier as we had planned it to be, I just wanted to ask a quick point of privilege before we move into questions from the commissioners and this is a study session so there's no |
| 03:57:32.12 | Kristina Feller | I just want to. |
| 03:57:41.47 | Kristina Feller | there's just some feedback from the board But Director McGowan, can you just help us understand a little bit what the process and procedure here this is a study session now but but we're assuming that you're coming back to us in front of the commission for an approval as well is that correct |
| 03:58:00.58 | Kevin McGowan | Well, that's an actually a very good question. We are bringing this to your attention and asking for your feedback based off of our continued interactions with the council themselves. They had suggested that we receive your feedback on this project specifically. In general, it is basically a civil project. So there isn't a whole lot to it, as you can kind of tell. It's expanding the plaza. It's, you know, trees. It's the other things that Becky and Nathaniel brought up. And I think those particular elements are what we need your help with. um i'm not sure if we are going to bring it back to you as a commission if you request us to you bet we can do that so um i think it might be best that we we gain your your knowledge on what you think is best and if you think we should bring it back we can definitely do that |
| 03:58:58.99 | Kristina Feller | Appreciate that. Thank you, Director McGowan. Let me open this up to commissioner questions first. I just wanna make sure we got that clear before we got into any thoughts and considerations here. Yes, Commissioner Saad, let's start with you. |
| 03:59:14.19 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you, Chair Feller. Thank you for the presentation. Thank you for staying late with us. I believe it's lot two, the lot that's behind the Bank of America building. Is that correct? Did you guys look at using any portion of lot two for the bike parking process? versus Gabrielson Park. |
| 03:59:35.15 | Becky Dower | I could hop in there if you would like, Kevin. We did. That seemed like an ideal place to put some of the bike parking was in lot too behind the Bank of America building. However, the tradeoff is that we lose some vehicle parking when we do so. Um, There was some concern with accessibility in terms of how the bike rental, the bike return companies can get to that area. They weren't significant concerns, but they did note that they would prefer something near near Spinnaker, somewhere where they could pull a trailer because their operation is they pull a trailer and they throw bikes in the trailer and head out. And so if it's in the parking lot, It makes it just slightly more complicated for them, although it didn't sound impossible. So long story short, yes, we did look at block two, but the loss of vehicle parking was a concern and consideration of ours. |
| 04:00:23.89 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 04:00:23.97 | Becky Dower | Okay. |
| 04:00:24.04 | Nastassya Saad | Okay, thanks for clarifying. And then I think you mentioned where the tour buses are currently stopping as well. Could you just expand on that as an opportunity for some bike parking? |
| 04:00:37.39 | Becky Dower | So the use of the two lanes or the tour buses park on Humboldt, that would actually be for bike queuing. And so that would be, you know, folks in line who would be actively moving and not necessarily bike racks. The issue with using that area is, you know, first of all, we're having people lined up with bikes on the roadway right next to vehicle traffic. So we would need to move, you know, some sort of traffic control, to protect those people. So it's a logistical item, not a significant one, but one nonetheless. And that area is used by the tour buses. So there would need to be some consideration of where those buses go or some coordination with when the buses use that area versus when the queuing happens. Just another logistical item that sort of staffed the deck Not in favor of using Humble Avenue. Thank you. |
| 04:01:26.19 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 04:01:26.21 | Becky Dower | Thank you. |
| 04:01:26.27 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you, thank you for clarifying. I think those are my initial questions. Thank you, Chair Feller. |
| 04:01:32.25 | Kristina Feller | Commissioner, |
| 04:01:32.97 | Unknown Commissioner | Yeah. |
| 04:01:34.37 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 04:01:34.41 | Unknown Commissioner | Any other questions? |
| 04:01:35.60 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 04:01:35.62 | Richard Graef | Um, I don't have so many questions, but I did wonder what sort of provoked the idea but in little tables and chairs out there. Um, The purpose would be just simply for gathering. Um, There's no food service around there. I'm just curious kind of what prompted that. |
| 04:02:06.54 | Kevin McGowan | So the local professionals group, and I'll let Nathaniel step in too, but the local professionals group have really taken a long look at the plaza area and what it can be in the future. And so, and looking at that, They actually mentioned that a larger plaza area can serve many different purposes. And you just mentioned a couple of them. One is a gathering area. The other one is for food services. And with all of those being considered, putting tables and chairs might be something that could be considered. And I think Nathaniel probably wants to mention that, you know, I think he's giving us some other alternatives, giving us some things to look at so that it'll spark your imagination as well as, you know, let us know what you think. Does that sound right, Nathaniel? |
| 04:02:59.84 | Kristina Feller | He's on mute. Thank you. |
| 04:03:03.52 | Kevin McGowan | Thank you. |
| 04:03:07.29 | Kevin McGowan | So let's just take it with that. So we don't necessarily have to have tables and chairs, but it was brought up by the local professionals group as more of a gathering area. And if you don't think that's the right thing to put there right at this point in time, We welcome that input. |
| 04:03:24.65 | Nathan Gray | Sorry, I guess I should not. Once I mute, I can't unmute, I think. But thanks for allowing me. Yeah, there was some direction. There was discussion of Well, it was sort of responding to, we received feedback that there's desire for this to be a flexible space that could have events and gatherings. And that perhaps for some of those events, you might bring out a copy cart or there might be a music concert on the stage. Those were some of the ideas. So the thinking was how do we keep a large open space, but when there's but it doesn't just feel empty and void. And so some potentially some tables and chairs, you've got restaurants there, you've got elements nearby seemed like an appropriate piece there. But I think we're open to thoughts on that. That's not something we feel tied to. |
| 04:04:17.13 | Richard Graef | Yeah, thank you. I was just I'm curious about that. And the the The water fountain, I mean, I assume that the fountain was put there because that's something that people need on a hot day while they're waiting for the ferry. It seems like the placement is logical. Um, that structure that supports it. I don't know. weird, but Um, So as I guess that's just something that, Does it need to move? Does it need to be reconfigured? I was just curious about kind of how where that discussion was going in your group. |
| 04:05:15.25 | Kevin McGowan | So from my perspective, moving the fountain out of the way, as Becky kind of mentioned, would help the circulation element. I think that it would be better if that fountain was moved someplace else. |
| 04:05:32.67 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 04:05:32.68 | Kristina Feller | Commissioner Graff, I hope you don't mind my interjecting to your question, Director McGowan, have you discussed that fountain with HPC? Is there any historic significance? to it. I'm not sure how old it is to be honest, although it doesn't look very new, but there might be something historic that needs to be discussed regarding that since this is also part of sort of historic downtown district. |
| 04:06:03.83 | Kevin McGowan | Yeah, we were originally hoping to kind of tag team onto your earlier meeting and bring this up at the same time. but this is how it ended up this evening. So I think that we can present this back to the HPC in the future if we need to. |
| 04:06:20.29 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, I'm sorry. I wish I knew. I would have made sure that it was on that agenda. So I didn't know. Apologies. |
| 04:06:30.33 | Kevin McGowan | No worries. We'll catch up to it. |
| 04:06:31.36 | Kristina Feller | that We'll catch up to it. Okay, sorry, Commissioner Graff, to interject. |
| 04:06:36.32 | Richard Graef | Oh, that's okay. Thank you for that. My other question was, Um, Um, whether you considered any other kind of shade structures other than or in addition, to trees. I like the idea of bringing trees into that environment. I think that's a positive mode. but, In terms of shelter from the sun, I'm just wondering if, if any other methods had been looked at for the people who were queuing up on days like today. I did. |
| 04:07:20.56 | Kevin McGowan | I think we did talk about |
| 04:07:21.97 | Unknown | this and we've got |
| 04:07:31.31 | Unknown | some protection from the sun. you |
| 04:07:35.35 | Andrew Junius | Thank you for clarifying the Yacht Club parking conflict and some of the other conflicts. So there will be some big white striped areas that say keep clear. So because I know the Yacht Club's probably not going to be happy with a big string of bikes, you know, parading in front of their small parking lot there. With respect to the furniture, You know, I'm a big fan of those big, heavy wooden benches. I think those are great. They're stable. They look good. They're kind of very kind of earthy and connected to the ground. I'm really not a fan of the fixed table and chair situation that really, You know, I just don't, I just, this feels more like a open area where you want people to walk. If there are gonna be events, you can bring in temporary furniture and stuff like that. But fixing one of those chairs that you can't move and a table you can't move And I just, I'm not a big fan of that. And then finally, the fountain is a fascinating question. But I honestly, I don't see how you gotta move it. I mean, it's right in the middle where you wanna get the circulation opened up. So I'm not really, I don't have really an opinion of where it goes or what happens to it, but I don't think it can stay there. So, but really nice project and good work for it so far. So thank you. |
| 04:08:30.90 | Unknown | you |
| 04:08:45.51 | Kevin McGowan | Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you. |
| 04:08:49.07 | Kristina Feller | Thanks. |
| 04:08:50.69 | Unknown | you |
| 04:08:51.32 | Kristina Feller | So, |
| 04:08:51.40 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:08:52.82 | Kristina Feller | Let me add, I've written down a bunch of notes, so these aren't necessarily going to be in any order, but let me just sort of rapid fire some of these thoughts out. um, I'll start. This is Sally Stanford Fountain again. I don't. I don't know. the context of it Karen Hollweg, I understand that it's large and in the way. Yes, Commissioner sad. |
| 04:09:18.77 | Nastassya Saad | I can just chime in there. Yes, you know, it's not a designated... |
| 04:09:19.15 | Kristina Feller | can just chime in. |
| 04:09:23.99 | Nastassya Saad | structure. It's not a structure. I can't think of another word at this hour, but Um, based on the historic um, preservation context, the purpose statement that we had created to protect heritage assets, artifacts and stories, unique history, and you know it was dedicated in 1985 I don't know when it was created, but that was the dedication. So it's definitely part of our downtown history, and I think HPC if they do have an opportunity to review this would go in that direction. I think, um, personal proponent to keep it, but I think it should be protected and we're going to find that it needs to be protected down the line. |
| 04:10:03.98 | Kristina Feller | Okay, thank you for that. PB, Sarah Silver, So maybe director McGowan we just add that to our list of things that we'd like to you know that will. work with you and your team. to end HPC to figure out what the real answer to that is. But I understand the dilemma Um, I have just sort of another, question, and this is maybe a rhetorical one, but really how much longer are ticket booths really going to be used in this day and age? There seems to be a lot of effort with these ticket booths And like Vice Chair Junius, I have always commuted to the city by ferry. although through COVID obviously if not, But I mean, you know, Tikkaboo seems to be a slightly bygone era and everything's going to some app on your phone or something like that. even for tourists. Just something to think about. I'd like to know if we're like redesigning everything around ticket booths. I mean, I know that there's more to it than that, but but let's really think about Are they going to be phased out in the next two, three, five years? I don't know. I don't have a crystal ball, but it's worth going back. and asking the transportation authorities about that. Just something to keep in mind. Um, And let's see, the other question is, this is a redesign for the landside ferry landing area. And I'm so excited to see some ideas in this downtown area, Is this for. the the new fairies that are going to come in when they put the new, larger, longer Jetway in for the bigger ferries or is it for the same size ferries today? |
| 04:11:57.57 | Kevin McGowan | I think this is for the same size fairies today. I don't think that Golden Gate Bridge Highway Transportation District is anticipating increasing the size of their ferries. We are anticipating replacing the doctor. itself. |
| 04:12:15.34 | Kristina Feller | Got it. Okay. I thought it was a longer doc because they wanted to get longer vessels in but if it's the same size that that's actually a better answer um but the one thing to note is that Many times you have both the Golden Gate Ferry and then Hornblower in at the same time. So I want to understand the logic behind all this different cueing when you're like, you know, half a mile away from where you get on the ferry, how do you know if you're in the right line? So, you know, who wants to sit around in the wrong line? which I've done before, maybe not for a ferry, but you know, you're like, oh my gosh, I've been sitting here for, half an hour and I've been in the wrong line and you don't know it because you're so far away from where the ferry actually is. So I want to understand a little bit more about just sort of operationally how you thought through that. |
| 04:13:16.66 | Kevin McGowan | So that's a good question. I'll let Becky kind of tie in a little bit. But that, I think the answer to the question also has to do with us reaching back out to Golden Gate Bridge Highway Transportation District. and finding out who's gonna manage this. Because at this point in time, right now, we're just complying with the FTA guidelines. I don't think there's any, thing in there for a long term management of the entire system. Becky, anything else to add to that? |
| 04:13:46.48 | Becky Dower | I know you're correct, Kevin, we're not. provisioning physical improvements to manage the queues. We have talked with Golden Gate a number of times, and they have indicated that they have you know, staff on the ground who help people connect with the right cues, You know, at some point when you're really far back of the queue, if you're in line over by Spinnaker, You know, you're in line for another hour. So anyways, by the time you get up to the actual plaza, that's probably when the queues start to diverge. They currently diverge, I believe, right at the door. So there's not a lot of queuing separation until you get up to that point. Both lines are full all the time. So once you get to that point, there's somebody directing traffic. in terms of which cue that you get into. At least it's that way for the bicyclists. |
| 04:14:28.89 | Kristina Feller | Okay. So the question is, have you sort of HAB-Charlotte Pitts & Benchmarked ideas on any other city or any other pedestrian ferry terminal. like taking ideas from how they handle it |
| 04:14:46.25 | Kevin McGowan | I think it's a good question. Well, I'll step in first, Becky. You can talk a little bit later. I think Sausalito is pretty unique. When you take a look at some of the other ferry terminals, the only one that comes close is Tiburon, and as far as its size, and it is smaller than Sausalito's. When you look at Larkspur, it's much bigger and it's much newer. It has much more capacity. San Francisco as well, much bigger, much more capacity associated with it. Um, Becky, do you want to add anything else? |
| 04:15:16.61 | Becky Dower | No, I think you covered it pretty well. I mean, we do have some, you know, unique you know, lay out here to contend with. A lot of the existing conditions around us we can't really change and so there's not a lot of opportunities for wholesale revisiting how we queue people up out here, unfortunately. |
| 04:15:33.20 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, and I was thinking not benchmarking like the neighborhood that we can see, you know, from our own shores. I'm thinking like, you know, up in Seattle and the Bainbridge or Pulsbo or areas like that, or, You know, there's so many other parts of the country that are similar to Sausalito. And I'm just curious, I mean, I'm curious, I'm just curious if that's something you looked at or, if we can, you know, sort of drum up some, some ideas from, from places that have done it already. So it's just a question. It's only meant to be that. Um, |
| 04:16:10.52 | Kevin McGowan | Good question. I don't think we've done that. |
| 04:16:12.73 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Um, Let's see, you've already answered how many bikes. Oh, I wanted to talk about again, The queuing. near Um, where the red lines and the blue lines cross and you're trying to cue everyone out towards the spinnaker restaurant. Um, I, have to tell you that with the greatest respect intended, I think this is not a good idea. And here's why. this strange, weird area where the Yacht Club parking is, first of all, please keep trees away from that. It's hard enough to see in and out. because everyone's backing out. So keep trees away from that and really think about these view corridors when you're in a car, |
| 04:16:59.95 | Robert Maxwell | So, we're going to have a |
| 04:17:05.01 | Kristina Feller | or you are There are trailers that are, triple high with you know, some of our laser boats on them that come in and out of that Area, I am a member of the club. And I do sail there. but you know, the, are you sailing is a, is a very active program. It's the, most active on the bay And they're constantly taking trailers in and out of there. It's also a loading dock. It's also an emergency access point for the Coast Guard and medical. They use our ramp and they use our dock for that purpose. It's just really important to remember what the uses are of of that club. And it's one of the few places that you can really get or vessels in the or any kind of emergency vehicle, whether it be, or a vessel, from the water to land and transport somebody. And so it's just something to think about. Because I really think that you have a huge risk and conflict with people queuing. already today without people queuing in front of it, they're completely You know, they're tourists. They're looking around. They're in awe of our beautiful, wonderful and the view and looking back at San Francisco, I mean, they're not paying attention to where they're walking or where they're riding their bike. And I just think it's a massive accident waiting to happen. you know, striping something is not enough. I mean, you could have neon signs on it, and it's still not enough. They're enamored with where they are. That's why everyone comes here. And I just think that we have a conflict brewing And I would really very strongly urge you to keep any kind of queuing. as far away from that whole area as possible. It's hard enough to get cars in and out. It's hard enough to get the trailers with the hitches with the boats on top and all of that in and out of there today. So the last thing you need is adding more of a problem to it. So I really think that needs to be completely rethought the issue with Um, Tracy the little street there. Um, You know, we have received a lot of public comment on that. And I know, I think the city council has Kevin, I'm sure you've had to, you've addressed that in public forum as well. I know that there's a lot of historic significance to it. which I think is really important to preserve one way or the other, however it's used. I would hate for it to completely go away. But it is kind of a very strange circulation there. But again, as long as we know that there's COB, Elaine McLaughlin, You know enough circulation and access previous, you know what what i'm sure is already looked at this, the city's consultant for for traffic and circulation that way. Karen Hollweg, Make sure emergency vehicles can get it in and out. I mean, I would just ask that whatever the sentimental or historic aspects of it are Be continued to be celebrated and not taken away if it's used for something other than vehicle traffic. I think it's just an important criteria to think about. And I think that's likely very important to many in this city. So I don't know. what you were thinking exactly with Tracy? Were you just thinking about closing it off to access Bridgeway directly, because that's such a weird intersection. |
| 04:21:05.23 | Kevin McGowan | Yes, that's the intent. It's that oblique angle as you come out. I know it says you're only supposed to make a right turn on to Anchor or Spinnaker, but folks don't read that and they go the other way, so. |
| 04:21:18.71 | Kristina Feller | Yes, I've noticed. Have you thought about putting bike parking along Anchor there? because there's no parking, it's a no parking zone. there. And frankly, that street is one way and it is wide enough where you could create, you know, nice little bicycle parking there. I think, you know, my just general thoughts are having little pockets here and there of bike parkings. is, I suppose, one option. But because it's more seasonal and you still might have people manage managing the park, the bicycle parking and you know, pulling trucks up in front of it to haul bikes away or whatever. it might be smarter to kind of concentrate it in that area. Um, It's just a thought. I don't know, maybe you've already looked at it. |
| 04:22:13.94 | Kevin McGowan | One of the things that anchor right in that area, Marin Transit drops off there. They have a route that drops there as well. So it would be a little bit in conflict with some of the best routes. But, It's a good comment. Let's take a look at it. |
| 04:22:31.21 | Kristina Feller | Let's take a look at it because you know there's no reason that they couldn't possibly drop off where like the large tourist buses do right by parking lot too. you know, kind of concentrate that use there concentrate the bicycle parking and other places. Right now we seem a little scattered here and there. And maybe I don't mean to sound melodramatic about that, I think it can be solved. I think there's enough space for everything. maybe we just have to recalibrate sort of those zones. Just some, again, something to think about. Um, So, And then Another thought I had, and sorry to belabor that or keep droning on here, I will stop here in a minute. but specific, you've asked about the plaza. um, where the fountain currently is and all that. agree that I don't think we should have any furniture there. I think that it should be the blank canvas that can be used for whatever we need at the time. But the one thing that I would like to really urge you to think about and really make a strong plug for is as a civic plaza. I think it's really important to celebrate living memorials in a plaza. And that could be anything from the history, of Sausalito or it could be, you know, Sausalito's 200th anniversary there's a special brick or paver or something put in you know, in the paving or something like that, but really It's meant, you know, it creates a patina. And it creates something fun. and interesting to go look at or incorporate art and architecture you know, in those paving and in the design, it creates such a sense of place If you're a visitor and you don't live here and you come and you start looking at some of that or reading some of that, whatever, It's exciting. It's interesting. And you know where you are when you land on that ferry. And so it's always nice to look at that beautiful, you know, your beautiful design idea, Nathaniel, about the paving. But that paving could be anywhere. Let's Sausalitoize that paving and let's really look at civic living memorials in those platforms. I mean, it's a blank canvas, I think. |
| 04:25:19.48 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Um, Those are sort of some of my thoughts. Commissioner Saad, you have your hand up. |
| 04:25:31.16 | Nastassya Saad | Yes. I was going to piggyback on something you said, but also wanted to provide some feedback, I thought, just questions at this time, but if you're finished. |
| 04:25:39.77 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, go for it. |
| 04:25:40.24 | Nastassya Saad | I'll go for it. OK. So to start with a point you just made about going basically the other way and putting parking over on Anchor. I was gonna suggest, organize my notes. Basically, I really think we need to look at lot too. I understand Becky's point to lose some parking spaces, but That parking lot is never full. it's after, often completely empty except for a few cars towards the front. So I think there's plenty of opportunity for parking. in lot two. slightly inconvenient perhaps to those services that are picking up the up the bikes, but they can make that turn in there. um, undisturbed without incoming traffic or pedestrians and pick bikes up. I strongly recommend putting parking somewhere in lot too. And, to Chair Feller's point about parking on Anchor, you know, Kevin, you had mentioned that the Golden Gate Transit stops there, which is correct. You see them in the morning. wondering, I'm also, The blue line where you have the queuing around Gabrielson Park I also strongly disagree with, I understand that This is not a. year-round concept. but those parks are really heavily used, especially starting from COVID. Jazz by the Bay. you know, that's our public space. It's pretty disturbing. Even when you're walking by the queue, as a, pedestrian. It's a big crowd. It's a lot of noise. People are having a great time as they should. There's tourists in our town But you don't want that long queue on the perimeter of our park where people are hanging out for a while and trying to enjoy the surrounding area. I would propose potentially to go the other way and go down Tracy way and then circle back over to anchor. Now, of course, I'm not, I don't know what you should then do with that sidewalk. You will need a pedestrian access. because I'm, basically proposing put bike queuing on the pedestrian sidewalk on the right side of Bank of America. But circle it down. down Tracy way, so go the other way. as a potential. um, But There was that, I agree with the comments around no furniture as well. I thought it was a great point, Chair Feller, that you just made about memorialize something. I didn't even think about that. Um, Definitely keep the fountain and it doesn't have to be the fountain, but that plaque, I think I read that you're going to have to destroy anyway and keep the plaque, but it should be retained and moved. And I think somebody made the point that it's useful. maybe less so in COVID, but people are hot. They're waiting in the sun. They use that fountain and the dogs use that fountain as well. So it would be nice to keep it in the area for people waiting for the ferry to use. Um, I had a question about the kiosk. How useful is that kiosk? It's got a bunch of the um, the flyers, those tourist maps where people can pick those up and walk around town, which is cool. They can maybe pick them up at the chamber. I don't see that. I feel like I never see anyone in that kiosk anymore. So I'm not really sure if it needs to be retained. I'll just put that out there in general to something to look at, because maybe we can gain some space just, removing the kiosks. In general. Um, And, Sorry, I'm eloquent at this hour. Sorry to be blunt, I really dislike those benches. I think the concept of benches are great, but these wooden block benches that are showing up all over town are uncomfortable. They're in Dunphy Park. Um, There's benches with no backs around Schoonamacher. I mean, this is one of the few places in town, Gabrielsen, and the ferry landing that actually has a bench that has a back. and you can sit and relax. So I really think The wooden block doesn't do justice to the area, but more so, I think we really need to think about, you know, a lot of elderly people come here too. They, you want to sit comfortably and you want to be able to be supported. So I, I think we should keep the types of benches we have there. Um, And I would also encourage us Um, a little bit more of a European feel, some flowers. I'm going to go to the totally other side as everyone else. I think there should be no trees in that area. I think it's a one obstructed view looking from in above the tide to the fairy landing. You've got this nice long line of sight. I think there are plenty of trees in that space. So I wouldn't propose any instead some nice shrubbery, some beautiful flowers. Um, Sorry, I'm trying to go quickly here. but Yeah, definitely check on that kiosk because maybe you can gain some space there. Um, And I think that was almost everything, but yeah, the benches, I'm, I'm passionate about benches. So I would throw that out to you for just to look at as well. Thank you. |
| 04:30:58.60 | Kristina Feller | Good comments. |
| 04:30:58.74 | Nastassya Saad | Good comments. Thank you. |
| 04:31:00.16 | Kevin McGowan | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 04:31:02.82 | Kristina Feller | So Director McGowan and team, you've gotten a lot of feedback and comments here. And obviously I know you've been working on this for a while. Um, and I'm glad it finally made its way here to the commission. want to be as helpful and supportive as we can. And if if we Um, you know, can help participate further. I do think this needs to come back. to the planning commission I, I, Um, PB, Sarah Silver, And i'm happy to also think about assigning a working group, if that will help expedite it because I also don't know what your timeframe is so we, we, you know, are delighted that we're finally engaged in this and. And, you know, this is part of the context of a lot more happening in the city. even if some of this is happening on city or, federal or state state land, but It's really a first impression to Sausalito so very Thank you. Very critical to everybody. Um, what would you find to be the best way forward here. in terms of offering that and what is your timeframe And the funding or grant money that you've gotten, do you have a deadline that we need to be aware of to help work more expeditiously with you? |
| 04:32:29.12 | Kevin McGowan | So those are a couple of very good questions. There are some unanswered questions that we need to pursue from staff. And one of them has to do with an ordinance called 1128. And so we're working with our city attorney to bring this back to the city council to find out what we do with that particular ordinance. So before we even commit to saying, yeah, we can bring this back to you in two months, we have a couple other things we've got to get through first. And so I can get back to you on when we can bring this back to you. But figuring out what's happening with 1128 is probably the number one thing we need to deal with. As far as some of your other questions... Timing wise for the FTA grant, they have noted to us through Golden Gate Bridge Highway Transportation District that they were upset with us for not moving forward with the project. There's no sunset date on the grant itself. which is different than FHWA grants, which have a six year window. So as long as we're moving forward and Becky and Nathaniel are still working forward, we're getting bills, We are in okay shape and we continue to check in with the FTA on it. However, I'm not confident that if we push this out for another two years or three years, that we're gonna still have that funding. So my hope is to try to get to some conclusion by the beginning of next year. So by 2023 in January, we should be able to have something that's pretty close to dialed in so that we can get it out to bid. That's my best guess at this point. |
| 04:34:10.07 | Kristina Feller | Well, thank you for laying that out. I mean, that certainly helps. And again, I don't even know how long you've been working on this. We're just absolutely delighted we've finally gotten to see it. and be able to really, you know, dialogue and sort of, you know, bat around some thoughts, ideas, impressions with you and you all have been so gracious in listening to them, even if it's something you might disagree with, or maybe it's something you've already looked at, you know, as a group and discarded, I don't know. But I would strongly urge you to reconsider the circulation and kind of try to keep it more contained because Again, you've got also two different ferry companies and transportation companies there and a lot of confusion and people not always speaking or reading English. You know, visual is always the best Sarah Silver, backup and I don't know what the answer to that is and certainly know that 1128 is. looming out there potentially. for this, but we don't want to, we certainly also don't want to hold you up. We absolutely want to be partners with you This is a very important endeavor. Um, and desperately needed. you know, in some form. So, I want to also open this up to public comment unless there any other thoughts from the commissioners right now. We'll come back after public comment. But anything pressing from any member or Director McGowan from you and your team before we go to that. |
| 04:35:55.97 | Kevin McGowan | No, not at this point in time. It's pretty darn late anyway, so a lot of us are fading. Yeah. |
| 04:36:03.45 | Kristina Feller | Yeah, sure. I know. Okay, so let's go ahead and open this up to public comment. So for those who would like to make public comment, please raise your hand in the Zoom application or press star nine on your cell phone. I will call on you in the order that I see you on my screen. and you'll have three minutes to make public comment on this item. Karen Hollweg, Again, this is item seven a. This is a study session, so there is no action to be taken by the planning commission this evening, but this is your opportunity to weigh in on this particular item. I'm just looking for hands. All right, seeing none, I'm gonna go ahead and close public comments. and bring it back up to the commission and to Director McGowan and your team if there are any additional comments. Commissioner Saad. |
| 04:36:57.59 | Nastassya Saad | I just wanted to ask, given the how late at night is and we sort of rapid fired our notes. Is it helpful if we type out what we said? Is that even a possibility and like collate our notes to the send over or did you capture them, Kevin? Do you need any of this? |
| 04:37:12.55 | Kevin McGowan | I got them all. |
| 04:37:13.48 | Nastassya Saad | You did? |
| 04:37:14.29 | Kevin McGowan | Yeah, I've written them all down. So I think we should be okay. And to get back to you, Chair Feller, I think what would be best is if I reach back out to you through Dan or through the planning director in the next month or so right after we bring something. to the city council related to 1128. And that way we can kind of narrow the dates down when we bring it back to you as the planning commission. |
| 04:37:38.69 | Kristina Feller | Terrific. That's most appreciated. And again, we're at the ready and appreciate you bringing this in front of us tonight, particularly at the late hour. So Director McGowan, thank you. Becky, thank you. Nathaniel, thank you so much. And of course, all the team and folks behind you that aren't on Zoom tonight, please express our thanks to them as well. |
| 04:38:00.67 | Kevin McGowan | Thank you for your help. Really appreciate it. Take care folks. |
| 04:38:03.67 | Kristina Feller | Have a good evening. Thank you. |
| 04:38:04.26 | Kevin McGowan | Thank you. |
| 04:38:05.12 | Kristina Feller | Thanks. Okay. |
| 04:38:06.13 | Kevin McGowan | Okay. |
| 04:38:07.04 | Kristina Feller | Let's go ahead and move on to item eight public hearing. There's only one item here, 8A, which is |
| 04:38:14.01 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Chair Fowler, could I interrupt for a second before we get to that? I want to ask Maria a technical question. During that presentation, it starts flashing the word recording. Is anybody else seeing that? |
| 04:38:14.06 | Kristina Feller | Yeah. |
| 04:38:29.23 | Jeffery Luxenberg | And it always records all of it, but all of a sudden it started flashing, recording. Is it supposed to be doing that? |
| 04:38:35.83 | Maria (Staff) | Yeah, my computer crashed again, so then I had to start recording. I'm having really bad difficulty problems tonight. |
| 04:38:41.18 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I'm having... |
| 04:38:45.20 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Okay, I just wanted to make sure we weren't supposed to do something about |
| 04:38:48.03 | Maria (Staff) | No, no, no, you guys are fine. If we press that, it's because something bad's happening on my end. |
| 04:38:48.49 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yeah. |
| 04:38:52.47 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 04:38:52.51 | Mary Wagner | Okay. |
| 04:38:52.94 | Maria (Staff) | And Zoom is my backup. |
| 04:38:55.00 | Mary Wagner | No. OK. Does that interrupt the streaming of the meeting? |
| 04:38:58.44 | Maria (Staff) | I'm right now I'm not even streaming. I don't know what happened. I have two blank screens. like on live TV. I only have it on Zoom going right now. And I called Serge and he said, we'll figure it well. Pasted tomorrow somehow. |
| 04:39:14.05 | Kristina Feller | Do we need to suspend the hearing? |
| 04:39:17.11 | Maria (Staff) | What do you guys want to do? |
| 04:39:18.95 | Kristina Feller | Do we need to suspend the hearing if it's not being live streamed, Serge? |
| 04:39:23.37 | Maria (Staff) | Thank you. |
| 04:39:23.39 | Mary Wagner | Yeah, I'm looking at that right now. |
| 04:39:25.11 | Kristina Feller | Sergio, that's a question to you. Okay. |
| 04:39:27.65 | Mary Wagner | Yeah, I'll take a minute to look at that issue. |
| 04:39:30.71 | Kristina Feller | Okay, why don't you just take a minute. I see there are a couple hands raised in the audience Hold on there. I do see you and you might be commenting on what might may or may not be streaming. Let us look into the technical aspects on this end. So I'm going to stop talking here and allow Sergio to See if he can fix that so we don't miss recording. Or streaming. Thank you. Yes. |
| 04:40:09.15 | Unknown | How did we notice that? |
| 04:40:10.10 | Robert Maxwell | notice. |
| 04:40:11.14 | Maria (Staff) | You guys hold on, we're going to turn everything off on our side and see if we can reboot it. |
| 04:40:11.18 | Unknown | Um, you, |
| 04:40:17.23 | Magda Gonzalez | Okay. |
| 04:40:18.28 | Kristina Feller | COB, Jean Gatza, All right, anyone in the audience, if you could just please hold on you don't need to leave the meeting we're going to reboot for recording so we're not going to engage in. |
| 04:40:18.70 | Magda Gonzalez | Thank you. |
| 04:40:18.96 | Maria (Staff) | I think one of the things that I've been doing is, |
| 04:40:19.43 | Magda Gonzalez | THE END OF THE END OF THE |
| 04:40:27.90 | Kristina Feller | further discussion on hearing items. |
| 04:40:28.88 | Maria (Staff) | Thank you. |
| 04:40:28.90 | Unknown (Technical Staff) | discussion on hearing item |
| 04:40:30.21 | Maria (Staff) | Thank you. |
| 04:40:30.23 | Unknown (Technical Staff) | Yes. Now I'll just turn it back on again. |
| 04:40:32.35 | Maria (Staff) | Turn it back on and see what happens. I'm not IT, guys. I'm sorry. |
| 04:40:36.35 | Kristina Feller | No, Maria, don't look. Take your time. Take your time. Don't get anxious. We're here to support you. |
| 04:40:42.97 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:40:50.31 | Unknown | Okay, we have one screen. |
| 04:40:52.03 | Unknown (Technical Staff) | you |
| 04:40:59.86 | Unknown (Technical Staff) | That's not changing there. This is just a computer graphics, so it wouldn't make any difference. But it was with a tie. Maybe we should try it with everything. I figured I'd try it here first, |
| 04:41:24.40 | Mary Wagner | So short answer, I think we can continue the meeting in part because we're still live on Zoom. That's the method by which we noticed the meeting and by which we noticed that the public can submit public comment. And so since the public can still participate in this meeting, I think we're fine |
| 04:41:41.31 | Kristina Feller | Okay, thank you for your quick review of that. Maria, if you can hear us. |
| 04:41:48.68 | Maria (Staff) | Yes, I can. Okay, so we're good. |
| 04:41:51.21 | Kristina Feller | We're good, we're gonna go ahead and whatever you have to do on that end, as long as we're still on Zoom, we're okay. |
| 04:41:57.93 | Maria (Staff) | Yep, we're still recording, so we're good. |
| 04:42:00.15 | Kristina Feller | PB Sarah Silver, Okay, very good let's continue into item eight public hearing into item eight a which is 777 Harrison Dan i'll hand this to you. |
| 04:42:14.38 | Kristina Feller | Oh, you're on mute, Dan. |
| 04:42:19.16 | Dan (Staff) | At this time, uh, This is the time for any commissioners to declare any ex parte communications regarding this case. |
| 04:42:27.00 | Kristina Feller | Commissioner Graff? No communication. Commissioner Luxenberg? |
| 04:42:32.54 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yes, Robert, Matt Chalot is the owner at 77 Harrison, allowed me access to his second floor deck and second floor of his house so I could see the view impact, but I did not have any ex parte communication. |
| 04:42:47.10 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Commissioner Saad. |
| 04:42:48.97 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Nothing to declare. |
| 04:42:49.78 | Dan (Staff) | Thank you. |
| 04:42:50.19 | Kristina Feller | Vice Chair Junius. |
| 04:42:51.96 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 04:42:51.98 | Dan (Staff) | that the future. |
| 04:42:52.21 | Andrew Junius | that. |
| 04:42:52.28 | Dan (Staff) | Thank you. |
| 04:42:52.30 | Andrew Junius | I'm sorry. |
| 04:42:53.19 | Kristina Feller | Me neither. We can go ahead, Dan. |
| 04:42:55.86 | Dan (Staff) | Okay, with that, the public hearing is for 77 Harrison, a tree removal permit. Project ID 2021-00168. Um, Magda Gonzalez contract planner will provide the presentation. |
| 04:43:15.15 | Kristina Feller | Great. Welcome, Magda. |
| 04:43:20.85 | Kristina Feller | Um, You're on mute Magda. |
| 04:43:25.46 | Magda Gonzalez | Can you hear me now? Yes. OK. Thank you. Let me start my PowerPoint. |
| 04:43:35.68 | Magda Gonzalez | I'm here to present the tree removal permit request for 77 Harrison Avenue. The request was submitted by the applicant Peter Brooks, who is a certified arborist on behalf of the owner, Robert The request is to remove two Italian stone pines This is a picture of the front of the property, not specifically the trees, but just to show you all the vegetation that exists that's located on that site. This is a picture of the two trees and how they are obstructing the view from the main floor. |
| 04:44:19.15 | Magda Gonzalez | That's another picture showing reference of the picture of the two pine trees from the residence. If you look at the bottom, there's another street right here where cars typically typically park. |
| 04:44:36.91 | Magda Gonzalez | So there are two trees that they are requesting to be removed. One of them is a 24 inches at diameter, breast height. Um, This is a picture from the street side. On the lower bottom right-hand side, you can see part of the street. I apologize that they're not in color. I think it would be easier to see them if they were in color, but we received them in black and white. This is the other tree. In the lower right-hand side, you can see a parked vehicle. And this tree is 28 inches in DBH. So the request is to remove two of those trees based on their DBH. They're classified as heritage trees. The request is brought forth because it's obstructing the view from the primary floor of the residence. And because of the potential it has to cause damage to the vehicles that park on the street. Um, There is no proposed replacement for the trees due to all the vegetation that currently exists on the site. There are a few key factors to know from the arborist report. One of them is that the that they have made some, several attempts to prune the trees to enhance the view from the dwelling, but due to the dense limbs, It's limited and it can't enhance it any further. Also, |
| 04:46:12.98 | Unknown | So, |
| 04:46:13.03 | Magda Gonzalez | So, |
| 04:46:13.97 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:46:17.53 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:46:17.57 | Magda Gonzalez | Okay, I skipped one. due to being that this pine trees cannot be reduced to a level that it will improve the view Um, Pruning is not recommended. |
| 04:46:34.15 | Magda Gonzalez | and also that the subject trees have outgrown their usefulness. to, screen the residents. and are actually blocking the vistas. |
| 04:46:51.06 | Magda Gonzalez | Okay, another key point to note is that the trees started to shed parts such as branches and pine cones, and they have a low risk of hitting pedestrians that are walking on the street, but they do have a likelihood of hitting parked cars on the street. Um... And there is extensive vegetation on the site already. Therefore, the arbors does not recommend replacement of a tree, However, the Planning Commission were to recommend that, then he suggests that they plant a coast live oak. which would be a suitable replacement for the existing Trace. This proposal is exempt from CEQA because the issuance of a tree removal and alteration permit is categorically exempt in accordance to section 15304. for new gardening or landscaping. The proposal also meets the entry removal criteria from Sausalito's municipal code. because the tree removal will ensure public safety by reducing the potential Passard. |
| 04:48:07.96 | Unknown | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 04:48:09.18 | Magda Gonzalez | Sorry, let me move. |
| 04:48:09.97 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:48:10.04 | Magda Gonzalez | this screen. |
| 04:48:10.71 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:48:15.44 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:48:15.46 | Magda Gonzalez | of harming of the potential that the tree will have to harm or hit parked vehicles because of the existing vegetation that already exist. So therefore there will be a reduced competition for resources and because the removal of the trees will allow the enjoyment of the property because the trees are currently blocking the view vista. And also, as I previously mentioned, If the Planning Commission requires a replacement, the arborist has suggested a coast live oak as a suitable match. However, The reverse does not recommend a replacement Because of all the vegetation and because the best of the vegetation will benefit from not competing for resources. So staff recommends that the Planning Commission take the following action, review the tree removal request and required findings. adopt the TATRA solution, which makes a required determination for approval for the tree removal permit. to allow the removal of two Italian stone fines subject to the conditions. Or alternatively, the planning commission may approve the tree removal permit with modifications continue consideration of the item for additional information, or move to deny the tree removal permit. identifying one or more of the findings for denial. That completes my presentation. The applicant, The arborist Peter Brooks is on the call, as well as the property owner, Mr. Robert Maxwell. |
| 04:50:05.65 | Kristina Feller | Thank you, Magda. Thank you for your presentation and the staff report this evening. Let's go ahead and stop sharing screen here. And let me ask the commissioners if they have any questions that you can help clarify for them. Commissioner Graff? |
| 04:50:23.77 | Jeffery Luxenberg | No question. |
| 04:50:24.85 | Kristina Feller | Commissioner Luxenberg? |
| 04:50:26.44 | Jeffery Luxenberg | No questions. |
| 04:50:27.55 | Kristina Feller | Mr. Saad. |
| 04:50:28.78 | Jeffery Luxenberg | No questions. |
| 04:50:29.61 | Kristina Feller | Okay, Vice Chair Junius. |
| 04:50:31.92 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 04:50:32.02 | Unknown (Technical Staff) | questions. |
| 04:50:32.73 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Let's go ahead. I don't have any. Oh, actually, I do have a question. I know. How long has the owner been in this property? |
| 04:50:45.32 | Unknown Commissioner | Magda. |
| 04:50:49.25 | Magda Gonzalez | I am not sure, Mr. Mashwatts, it's on the call if you could answer. |
| 04:50:55.67 | Kristina Feller | Well, we'll get to him. I was asking those clarifications of you. |
| 04:51:00.02 | Magda Gonzalez | Thank you. |
| 04:51:00.69 | Kristina Feller | And can you just confirm how old the trees are? Are they both the same age? |
| 04:51:06.21 | Magda Gonzalez | I do not know. I apologize. |
| 04:51:08.88 | Kristina Feller | Okay. All right. Let's go ahead and ask the applicant to unmute and turn on your video and you'll have 15 minutes to make a presentation. And we'll have the timer clock up here. Maria will help us with that. Is that Mr. Magellan? Are you making the presentation or is Mr. Brooks, if staff can, unmute both of them or allow them to share their screen so they can both chime in here. That would be helpful. Good evening, sir. Welcome. |
| 04:51:46.46 | Robert Maxwell | Hi, thank you for getting to this tonight. I know it's off the light. |
| 04:51:51.72 | Kristina Feller | I hope you like that. |
| 04:51:52.03 | Robert Maxwell | I hope Peter's on the phone. |
| 04:51:52.99 | Kristina Feller | on the phone. Sir, we have an echo. |
| 04:51:54.44 | Robert Maxwell | Yeah. |
| 04:51:56.35 | Kristina Feller | We have an app. Okay. Okay. Okay. |
| 04:51:56.62 | Robert Maxwell | No. Okay. |
| 04:52:03.03 | Robert Maxwell | I think that would be better. |
| 04:52:04.40 | Kristina Feller | Yes, thank you very much. Thank you. |
| 04:52:06.47 | Robert Maxwell | OK, no problem. I don't know if Peter's on the phone or not. He's been a little bit ill, and so he may have had to drop off, I don't know. But if he's on it, he's probably better at this than I. But what Magda said, I think, is what we think, which is you've seen sort of what it does to the views. I've lived in the property, by the way, since 2010. and the trees are obviously way older than that. And they, as I think it says, sort of, in my opinion, outlived their useful life. There's a lot of other screening in addition to those trees behind them. In fact, some dogwoods, which are really quite beautiful, that will actually, are quite big, but will continue to grow up when they're not in the shadow of those trees. And I think two things. one of which I don't want to overstate, but it does cross my mind. Those trees are quite old, so you can't really trim them. We've tried, But if you trim them any more, they're going to be nothing with sticks and they're going to look awful. And I think Peter, if he's on the phone, will certainly back that up with more technical explanation to, um, When the trees come down, there will be a lot of screening and a lot of green and a lot of other, as you saw from some of the pictures, Three, it takes away what's being dropped on the street occasionally. And I don't know. I've often wondered whether that's my problem if a tree on my property drops on someone's car. I don't know that answer, but I'm afraid I might find out the wrong way. That's two. of all the trees on this property, and there are several and many of them are very beautiful, These to me are the most almost naked and I think, and I'm not an expert, would be, as fire hazards go would help in that score. I don't want to overstate that, But I do think that's true. So that's really the reason for it. And I don't certainly don't need 15 minutes, but if anybody has any questions as a result of what I've said, I'd appreciate the opportunity to answer them. |
| 04:54:37.91 | Kristina Feller | COB, Jean Gatza, Absolutely thing, thank you, sir and Mr brooks I just want to offer to you, did you have anything to to add to this. |
| 04:54:49.32 | Kristina Feller | I think you're on mute. |
| 04:54:59.04 | Kristina Feller | Or maybe you just need to turn your volume up |
| 04:55:01.96 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 04:55:05.85 | Kristina Feller | No, he's not able to. I see that you're not on mute, but We cannot hear you. |
| 04:55:14.80 | Kristina Feller | Or maybe you can call in as well. If you'd like to do that, you're welcome to do that. Um, |
| 04:55:25.16 | Kristina Feller | You're welcome to do that. Um, Okay, while you're getting some technical assistance there, I will come back to you. I'll also note that you've got over 12 minutes. So you have plenty of time to come back. Um, But why don't we go ahead and open up questions to the applicant from the commissioners. Commissioner Luxenberg, do you have any questions for the applicants? |
| 04:55:54.99 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I'm all set. Thank you, Chair Feller. |
| 04:55:56.97 | Kristina Feller | Okay, Commissioner Saad. |
| 04:55:59.58 | Nastassya Saad | I was just wondering from the presentation that Magda just showed, it looks like there is a perimeter of trees and I wasn't sure if Are there any habitats up in those trees that are relying on each other? I don't know if that's the scope of any of the work that Mr. Brooks did. So, just curious, They seem all inclusive. so close together, so I didn't know if anyone was relying on any other tree. |
| 04:56:28.36 | Robert Maxwell | I hope Peter gets on that. From what I know, the answer to that would be no. But. Peter would be more of an expert. They are separate. although they are fairly close together. And as far as I know, there's also no nests or anything like that up there, uh, because I've looked pretty closely. |
| 04:56:50.85 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. Thank you. That's all I had, Chair Feller. |
| 04:56:54.07 | Kristina Feller | Okay, thank you. Commissioner Graff. |
| 04:56:58.04 | Unknown (Technical Staff) | No question. |
| 04:56:59.36 | Kristina Feller | COB Jean Gatza, Okay vice chair genius. |
| 04:57:01.43 | Unknown (Technical Staff) | Question. |
| 04:57:02.60 | Kristina Feller | Okay. So you've lived in the house since 2010. I'm hoping Mr. Brooks is able to Get volume here. But in the event that yeah he still cannot I see I see that Mr Brooks you can probably hear me but we cannot hear you. you might want to call in if your computer is not allowing you to do so. Um, Okay, if there are no other questions. from the applicant. I again note that you have 12 minutes and 39 seconds left if you want to use that at another time. Don't go too far. because we're going to open this up for public comment. So you get to hear that. You'll hear some deliberations and we'll probably come back to you again. and you'll be able to use that time if you hear any any public comment that you'd like to um debate. Okay. So, um, Mr. Brooks will you just raise your hand if you are able to get on at any point at this time i'm going to open this up to public comments To make a public comment, please raise your hand in the Zoom application. or press star nine on your cell phone and I will call upon you in in the order that I see you on my screen. So I'm just looking for any hands in the public for public comment. PB, Sarah Silver, Okay, seeing none we'll go ahead and close that let's bring the discussion back up to to the dice here and and. and see who would like to start us off. |
| 04:58:42.29 | Nate Berkowitz | Thank you. |
| 04:58:42.34 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 04:58:42.99 | Unknown Commissioner | Thank you. |
| 04:58:43.00 | Kristina Feller | Mr. Luxembourg, would you like that? |
| 04:58:44.32 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I can start as hard. I did see, I can confirm from visiting the site that the trees definitely block the view. |
| 04:58:44.35 | Unknown Commissioner | Well, I'm going to go. |
| 04:58:44.37 | Kristina Feller | Okay. |
| 04:58:53.87 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 04:58:53.97 | Jeffery Luxenberg | from the street on Harrison, you look up and, |
| 04:58:58.09 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Thank you. |
| 04:58:58.60 | Jeffery Luxenberg | whatever over time they've been such trimmed that it's very up high where the item is. So I think if you were to trim this, there wouldn't be a whole lot left. There are actually three of these trees. One is being retained. It's just these two that are going to be removed. And there is an extensive amount of landscaping. And Harrison is actually very shady at that point. I don't think this is going to harm Harrison at that point. And it would protect from things falling underground. |
| 04:59:37.04 | Jeffery Luxenberg | So I think it does meet the criteria as specified. So I would be on board with making the findings for this. |
| 04:59:46.57 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Um, Before we move on here, I want to see Mr. Brooks, are you Call in user one. We just let a call in Somebody by phone in. Is that you? |
| 05:00:07.04 | Andrew Junius | We need to unmute Colin user one, somebody. |
| 05:00:09.88 | Kristina Feller | If you hit star nine, hit star nine, sir. |
| 05:00:13.54 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 05:00:16.91 | Kristina Feller | and |
| 05:00:17.03 | Kristina Feller | you should be able to |
| 05:00:17.97 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 05:00:18.03 | Kristina Feller | mute. |
| 05:00:18.53 | Unknown | Thank you. you |
| 05:00:19.58 | Kristina Feller | Maria, is there any assistance we can provide Mr. Brooks? |
| 05:00:23.44 | Maria (Staff) | No, Chair Feller, he has to press start nine. Thank you. |
| 05:00:30.04 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Karen Hollweg, Mr Brooks, we still can't hear you so we're going to keep moving on with the rest of the Commission so commercial oxenberg, thank you for your comments. Commissioner Saad. |
| 05:00:42.33 | Nastassya Saad | I agree with Commissioner Luxenberg I personally did not visit the property, I didn't have a chance to but from. being familiar with the site from the street down below and seeing all the, the photos provided in a staff report, it is clearly obstructing the view. Always hate to see trees but I would be supportive based on the findings review Thank you. And... you know, any potential damage to anyone or anything on the street. So overall would be supportive to remove these would be open to hearing what the Commission thinks about a replacement tree there, there is a lot of vegetation up there. think of a coastal An oak is a great suggestion. just would wanna be mindful that it also doesn't get to the point where it's that needs to be removed down the line for blocking a view. I would be interested in potentially seeing a replacement tree there. Um, But I can definitely make the findings for removal at this point. |
| 05:01:50.08 | Kristina Feller | Okay, very well. Commissioner Graff. |
| 05:01:55.58 | Richard Graef | Thank you, Chair Fowler. Yeah, I think I can make the findings. I was not able to get up to see what the view blockage Yes, but... from down below. the underside of those trees, it's really kind of wonderful. And It's like a big, canopy. And, So, I would favor replacing those trees. And I think the oaks would be the proper thing, there. I didn't look all that closely, but, um, the all the other vegetation didn't seem to be too remarkable to me. So I think that, A couple of oak trees would be very nice there. |
| 05:02:52.85 | Unknown | Mm-hmm. |
| 05:02:54.44 | Richard Graef | What's wrong? |
| 05:02:55.54 | Kristina Feller | I don't know. Mr. Brooks, we can hear you. Hold on just a minute. |
| 05:02:56.53 | Unknown Commissioner | Thank you. |
| 05:02:56.55 | Richard Graef | THE END OF |
| 05:02:56.62 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 05:02:56.80 | Unknown Commissioner | Mr. |
| 05:02:57.17 | Robert Maxwell | I'm sorry. |
| 05:03:00.63 | Kristina Feller | Good to hear you. Okay, sorry, Commissioner Graff. Any other comments? |
| 05:03:07.28 | Richard Graef | That's pretty much it. |
| 05:03:08.24 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Okay. Okay. Vice Chair Junius. |
| 05:03:13.14 | Andrew Junius | Yeah. I mean, I, it's really sad to see what's a, probably a generally healthy tree. It's, Um, Honestly, though, I I'm going to be supportive of this. And I frankly, I really appreciate the clear honesty. Views are important in Sausalito. You've done your best with this tree. It's outgrown its usefulness. It probably is starting to create some type of a hazard and Anyway, yeah, I can concede to make the findings. So I'm agnostic about the replacement. |
| 05:03:48.56 | Kristina Feller | Um, Are there two trees here or one tree? |
| 05:03:54.16 | Robert Maxwell | Two trees. |
| 05:03:54.99 | Kristina Feller | Right. So do we have to take out both trees? I mean, these are healthy trees. No one is guaranteed an unobstructed view based on our ordinance. in our municipal code. You know, the problem is we can't just take out healthy trees that are this mature and heritage trees. We designate them its heritage trees for a reason. And it's not just view, I mean, there's a whole habitat that you impact. when you take out trees. We've had so many trees removal permits in front of us, some are extremely warranted. Um, that this is not an unhealthy, you know, these two are not unhealthy and I'm very, I'm not comfortable actually with this. at all. You know, pine cones falling out of a pine tree is not unique. It's |
| 05:04:44.57 | Robert Maxwell | At all. |
| 05:04:52.38 | Kristina Feller | This happens. I mean, that's what they're supposed to do. You know, you park under one, you know, it's going to happen, you know. So I don't know, I'm not fully 100% on board with all of it. And I'm wondering if there's a compromise and, I'm all right. Sorry. Hold on, we're deliberating. We're deliberating. So I'm wondering, I'm asking my commissioners here, |
| 05:05:12.43 | Unknown | Well, I, |
| 05:05:12.87 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 05:05:13.29 | Robert Maxwell | Thank you. |
| 05:05:13.39 | Unknown | Yeah. |
| 05:05:13.56 | Robert Maxwell | Thank you. |
| 05:05:13.64 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 05:05:13.66 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 05:05:13.67 | Unknown | Sorry. |
| 05:05:22.58 | Kristina Feller | you know, what their thoughts are about that. I'd also, I don't know what your thoughts are, but I wanna hear from the arborist if we're able to hear him about what, you know, if you take out one and keep the other, will the other one thrive? instead of looking at a brand new replacement, which could be a very small size tree that would take you know, decades to reach its maturity. I don't know. if anyone wants to comment on that. |
| 05:05:52.86 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I just, I can comment on that. There are actually three trees, just to be clear. There are three of these types of trees. They're asking to remove two of them, not all three of them. The third one also does partially block our view, but it's not the primary view. And so these are the two that they're suggesting being removed. So I just wanted to clarify that. Bye. |
| 05:06:16.03 | Andrew Junius | I would like to hear from the arborist. Yeah, that would be great. I'll add a bit more. I mean, yeah, I'm very sympathetic. I don't like seeing healthy trees removed either. That said, I do believe, you know, as strange as it is, there is a singular finding. If there's a pretty major impact on views, that is a justification to remove a tree. I think that's what the code says. And those pictures, those two trees, look, they've, |
| 05:06:16.33 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I would say. |
| 05:06:43.85 | Andrew Junius | They're pretty big and they're blocking Robert's view pretty significantly. I'm conflicted. I'm completely I'm kind of heartbroken to lose big trees, Um, I don't know. Views are tough. |
| 05:07:02.17 | Kristina Feller | Okay, Mr. Brooks, do we have you? I think we are on. |
| 05:07:05.83 | Peter Brooks | I don't know. Hello, can you hear me? |
| 05:07:10.16 | Kristina Feller | Yes, we can hear you, Mr. Brooks. We are in the middle of- |
| 05:07:13.99 | Peter Brooks | I've been following, so I understand. the process of where we're at. Would you like me to talk or would you like me to answer a specific question? |
| 05:07:23.58 | Kristina Feller | Well, no, no, we'd like, if you don't mind, I think the commission is interested in hearing your findings and justification of taking out two healthy trees. If it's just for review, we want to understand that. PB Sarah Silver, If this is two of three total together if you can just maybe shed some light on this for us. That would be helpful. |
| 05:07:48.00 | Peter Brooks | I'd be happy to. um, Yeah, so... I have been working at 77 Harris for Several years now, probably we've been in it three times. Worked. it. hard trying to find a way to get a view corridor that would that would work. The problem that we've run across is that these are conifers and we're limited First of all, by international standards as to how much we can prune per year, which is not really the problem here. We have, the trees have maxed out their green, so I can't cut them any lower and I can't remove more limbs. without killing the tree. And I'm just, Uh, it, It's been very frustrating. it. but, uh, I really feel like removal is the only option that we can come up with at this point. We are going to try to save the third tree and the existing oaks will benefit by this and It will be thinner for a while, but I think in the overall scheme is the proper. path. |
| 05:09:02.26 | Kristina Feller | Karen Hollweg, Okay, let me ask Commissioners if you have questions for Mr Mr brooks now that we have him on the line by share genius did you want to ask him anything specifically. |
| 05:09:14.30 | Andrew Junius | No further questions. I actually saw that interesting question. Are we really sure there's no habitat up there? It looks like a relatively full canopy Um, healthy tree at the top again, unfortunate, but yeah. |
| 05:09:31.64 | Peter Brooks | I'm actually quite sure. that, We have not encountered any nests. We have a very strict policy when we find squirrels or bird nests that we leave the alone until the Birds have pledged. I do that for my own personal experience. It's not a good thing. taking, if I, we had years ago, inadvertently took out a bird nest by accident and, the bad press was very, very bad. I'm under your Those trees are worked on so frequently that there has not been any habitat that has been established, um, Certainly that I'm not aware of in the last five years. |
| 05:10:13.16 | Kristina Feller | Thank you for that. Commissioner Luxenberg, did you have any questions? |
| 05:10:17.59 | Jeffery Luxenberg | No further questions. Thank you, Chair Phillips. |
| 05:10:20.28 | Kristina Feller | Commissioner Graff. |
| 05:10:21.98 | Richard Graef | No, I had the same concern about habitat within my notes and Um, So if that's not an issue, I, But I would like to have a little more conversation about the Uh, replacements console. whether Um, whether that would work or whether what, what, what are, What are the problems with it or why would you not do it? |
| 05:11:01.65 | Richard Graef | I've just... |
| 05:11:02.03 | Peter Brooks | Thank you. I'm, I'm under the... |
| 05:11:04.74 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 05:11:05.91 | Peter Brooks | you know, the belief I'm under pressure from you know, fire reduction hazards and things like that. to to throw more trees on that hill If it's required to to to get the permit, fine, let's do it. But in my... honest opinion, there's so many trees up there to allow a little air and space and water to to the existing trees is going to allow those existing trees to recover and and grow and fill those holes in faster than putting in a tree digging roots, cutting more roots, of trees that are existing. And. And, putting in a nursery-ized tree, |
| 05:11:50.17 | Robert Maxwell | is. |
| 05:11:52.67 | Peter Brooks | I'm just feel it's folly. I mean, we could certainly do it and it's not, to benefit to me to actually put in trees, but I just, I just don't feel that that space Thank you. really needs more population. |
| 05:12:08.09 | Richard Graef | What are the trees that are significant that are there that would benefit from I don't know. removal. |
| 05:12:17.93 | Peter Brooks | Well, we have a very established. Coast Life Oak Grove that extends to the east side of the property and wraps around to that side. There's a few smaller ones that are on the uphill, upslope, And then there's also a lot of of landscaping that's been put in A dogwood hedge, which if given the space that it would should have, I mean, for what it wants. It would be glorious. And I don't use that word lightly. Um, So. Like I said, putting in putting in some more oak trees would would not be a problem for me. as far as they're not going to grow up and become the problem that the pines have, which is, you can continue to cut oaks and they will sprout epicormically. The conifers, you have to cut to green and enough green to keep them viable, And they've just, we've worked really hard to try to find that medium there, and it's It's just not working. |
| 05:13:20.59 | Richard Graef | Thank you. I appreciate that. That really helps me understand. Thank you. |
| 05:13:27.25 | Nastassya Saad | look. |
| 05:13:27.51 | Richard Graef | Thank you. |
| 05:13:28.91 | Kristina Feller | Commissioner Saad, |
| 05:13:32.11 | Nastassya Saad | I think the questions I had have been answered. Thank you. |
| 05:13:35.17 | Kristina Feller | Okay. I just one one last question then for you, Mr. Brooks is, is there a reason that both of these trees are being recommended to take out or is it because of you or can we take out one but not two? |
| 05:13:52.97 | Peter Brooks | You know... That's an aesthetic issue. I mean, question. And my aesthetics would certainly dictate you know, removing both of them starting that environment anew, leaving the one that we're planning on leaving in and allowing it to spread and become a natural shape instead of the the, cuttings that has been done. Long where I got there. It's just the trees have really been, have really been, I hate to use this word, But they've been kind of hacked. And I can say that because I got involved with this, actually, like four or five years ago, and we've been trying to restore the natural look and affect. my call would be, I wanted to get rid of both of them because I think, The space needs to have them both removed. And I would like to allow what's already there to just spread and, and, become the The plan that someone, an architect, a landscape architect, had an idea there, And it's just. it hasn't really been fulfilled. |
| 05:15:06.38 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Thank you for that input. I appreciate it. Let's, you know, don't go too far, both yourself and Mr. Matchelet, don't go far. We're just gonna deliberate here. on our virtual dais over Zoom. So, Is there any further discussion from the commission or would anyone like to make a motion. |
| 05:15:36.82 | Jeffery Luxenberg | we do public, do we do I can't remember. It's been a long night that we did public input |
| 05:15:42.99 | Kristina Feller | I did public comment. There was no public comment. So we're doing virtual deliberation now. It's all a blur. |
| 05:15:45.14 | Jeffery Luxenberg | comments. |
| 05:15:47.25 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Yeah. |
| 05:15:47.26 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I love it. It's all work. |
| 05:15:50.56 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. Yeah. I know, but we did take public comment. Okay. |
| 05:15:53.64 | Jeffery Luxenberg | Okay, thank you. I just wanted to make sure. |
| 05:15:57.54 | Kristina Feller | Sure. Um, Okay, any further comment, deliberation, ideas, questions for the applicant or staff? Any motions anyone would like to make? |
| 05:16:09.88 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I'll move that we concur with the staff recommendation to remove the trees. |
| 05:16:16.90 | Kristina Feller | Okay, before we make a second there, I think we need to be clear also about replacement trees. or tree fund in lieu of, I mean, I'd like to see something replanted there. It doesn't have to be one for one, but we could do some to the tree fund, some on the property. I'm not sure. Let's make sure the The motion includes issues of replacement. |
| 05:16:46.12 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I'll let other people chime in on what they think should happen. |
| 05:16:50.46 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Commissioner Saad, what are your thoughts? |
| 05:16:54.43 | Nastassya Saad | I think in this case, given what the arborist said and given at least the vegetation you can see from the street, there's a lot going on there, so I'd be open to the tree fund. as an option. |
| 05:17:11.10 | Kristina Feller | Okay. Commissioner Brown? |
| 05:17:15.22 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you. |
| 05:17:15.25 | Unknown | No. |
| 05:17:15.32 | Nastassya Saad | Yeah. |
| 05:17:15.50 | Unknown | True. |
| 05:17:16.31 | Kristina Feller | Okay, vice chair. |
| 05:17:20.77 | Andrew Junius | Yeah, I guess so. It's, I mean, I'm not sure I, you know, I'm looking at, I'm actually on my, phone. I've walked down Harrison quite a bit over the years. And I know these trees from below looking up, Um, And I don't know. you know, there are some live oaks immediately preceding it. And then probably right after that, but I'm not, I'm not sure I see what tree is going to be kind of allowed to blossom up there. I am sure it's up there somewhere, but, and I totally understand the crowding issue. and whatnot, but boy, it is such a shame to lose such a big trade. but, um, Yeah, I mean, I guess if we're there, then the fun, It's a slope. There's already stuff there. I don't know when you, you know, It's I'm fine with the tree fund. |
| 05:18:11.49 | Kristina Feller | I'm, I'd like to see a replacement tree there. It will help. Erosion control, we have a lot of issues about that here in Sausalito, and then one tree to the tree fund. I do think that we should replace on the site, replace some potential for habitat there as well. Um, I think that that's the right thing to do. I think aesthetically that could work. I know this area well also. just by walking as we all do in our great town here. But that would be, that's what I propose to you as an amendment to your motion. I'm open to everybody else's thoughts and ideas about that, but that's what I would recommend. |
| 05:19:00.01 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I'm okay with that amendment to the |
| 05:19:03.98 | Jeffery Luxenberg | I would ask the staff in the future, since this ordinance has been approved by city council, add this to their staff reports |
| 05:19:13.04 | Jeffery Luxenberg | and options so we would have that in the staff reports for the future, that would be more helpful. |
| 05:19:14.89 | Jeffery Luxenberg | in the |
| 05:19:20.09 | Kristina Feller | Excellent point, Commissioner Luxenberg. Thank you. Any other questions? Um, thoughts or comments about that amendments, anything? Yes. Commissioner Graff. |
| 05:19:31.11 | Richard Graef | I would support that concept that you outlined second the motion. |
| 05:19:37.42 | Kristina Feller | very well then. Unless there's any other comments or motions, let's go ahead and take a roll call down. |
| 05:19:48.39 | Kristina Feller | You're on mute. |
| 05:19:49.27 | Dan (Staff) | Yeah, I know. Commissioner Saad? Yeah. Commissioner Luxembourg. Yes. Commissioner Graff. Yeah. Vice Chair Junius. |
| 05:20:03.09 | Dan (Staff) | Oh, I couldn't hear you, sorry. Chair Feller |
| 05:20:05.97 | Unknown | Bye. |
| 05:20:06.21 | Kristina Feller | Yes. |
| 05:20:08.64 | Unknown | Motion carries. |
| 05:20:10.06 | Kristina Feller | Okay, very well. Thank you and good luck, Mr. Brooks and Mr. Watch a lot on on your property. Bye. Have a good evening. Okay, unless there's anything else, I'll entertain a motion to adjourn. All in favor? |
| 05:20:27.15 | Nastassya Saad | Bye. |
| 05:20:27.31 | Unknown | No. |
| 05:20:27.85 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 05:20:27.88 | Unknown | Thank you. |
| 05:20:28.18 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 05:20:30.58 | Nastassya Saad | Good night, Tim. |
| 05:20:30.97 | Unknown | I would. |
| 05:20:31.30 | Dan (Staff) | No. |
| 05:20:31.93 | Nastassya Saad | Thank you, you guys. |
| 05:20:32.03 | Kristina Feller | Thank you. |
| 05:20:32.06 | Dan (Staff) | I'm sorry. |
| 05:20:32.44 | Kristina Feller | you |
| 05:20:34.46 | Nastassya Saad | Get home safe, Dan. |
| 05:20:36.35 | Dan (Staff) | I'm at home. I get it from home. Oh, excellent. Okay, good. |
| 05:20:40.40 | Nastassya Saad | Good night. |